B:	Yeah,
B:	I'm in Texas.
B:	Where are you at?
A:	Yeah, uh,
A:	I'm in, uh, New York.
B:	New York.
A:	Upstate New York,
A:	yeah.
B:	Oh, gosh.
A:	And, uh,
B:	Yeah.
A:	Long way, uh,
B:	Yeah
A:	And we just had a really big ice storm.
A:	And, basically, half the trees in, in our city, I'm in Rochester which is, uh right upstate. Half of the trees in the city, uh, are no good anymore.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Oh, no.
A:	That's how bad it was.
A:	Everything is just down everywhere.
B:	Oh.
A:	You know, we had three hundred thousand people without power.
B:	Golly.
A:	You know, it was,
A:	and, you know, and, and they, and we didn't have power for a week
A:	and there are still people who don't have power.
B:	Are you serious?
A:	Oh, yeah,
A:	it's been, it's been, it's been ten days already
A:	and there are still something like ten thousand people without power.
B:	Oh my God,
B:	how do they live?
A:	and were officially, yeah,
A:	and we're officially in a state of emergency.
A:	Funny thing is the news, the national news how they covered it. Uh,
B:	Yeah.
B:	I haven't heard a thing.
A:	Yeah.
A:	I think it made about three minutes on one of the national news stations or something
A:	and, and we've been in a state of emergency for over, you know, for ten or eleven days.
B:	Lord.
A:	You know.
A:	We just got our phone back today, uh,
A:	and, and, they're you know, putting out ads now for people to come volunteer, or to have their organizations come, volunteer to help clean up the streets.
B:	Well, that's good.
B:	That's great.
A:	Because we have, you know,
A:	everywhere that a tree is down people need help
A:	and,  we're all, all, a lot of older folks need help getting,  their yards cleaned out because they can't afford to pay anyone
B:	Right.
B:	Yeah.
A:	and they, and, and they certainly can't carry it themselves
B:	Right.
A:	and,
A:	So,
B:	and we go along
B:	and, I'm really not sure how we find the individuals,
B:	but we find older people that cannot afford to fix up their homes that desperately need it,
B:	and, uh, we go along with all the material and in one day, more or less, go in and say, roof, paint, fix whatever we can.
A:	Oh, that's great.
B:	Yeah,
B:	and spend a day doing,
B:	that's really neat.
B:	I mean, it's not a lot because you're just doing a house at a time,
B:	but you know, every little bit helps.
A:	And is that supported by all donations to the church and so forth
A:	or,
B:	Uh, yeah.
B:	They, uh, luckily we have a, a man who owns a building company.
A:	Oh, so he,
B:	So he donates a lot, not everything, but a lot of the material.
B:	Then what he doesn't donate we just go out and buy.
A:	That's real nice.
B:	Yeah.
B:	And it's not, you know, we don't promote it a lot outside the community because we don't want recognition for it, you know so much as, we just want to help people out.
A:	Right.
B:	So it's real neat.
A:	That,  that's real good.
B:	It's,   Yeah,
A:	And I, and I bet it gives you a real good feeling  to be doing that.
B:	it's  like I say,
B:	it's not a lot,
B:	but it helps people.
B:	Like this last couple we helped, you know, they were in their eighties
B:	and she was bedridden
B:	and, I just, you know, just tears your heart out to to see this kind of thing
A:	Yeah.
B:	and you know, if you can do any a little bit, it helps,
B:	so
A:	That's, that's, uh, that's real good.
B:	Yeah.
A:	We had, uh, we had organizations like that in college, you know.
A:	We had a community service group in college that had all sorts of different groups
A:	and some did like that, some did elderly visits,
B:	Yeah.
A:	some did, uh, some did, you know, Big Brother, Big Sister, stuff like that.
A:	And I'm convinced that, that, that at least twenty-five percent of our school participated in some sort of a, some sort of group. You know, activity like that.
B:	Gosh.
B:	That's great.
B:	That's a lot.
A:	You know. Twenty-five, I don't know. Twenty-five percent? A asks someone else in the
A:	Yeah,
A:	my wife was big in that
B:	That's, that's a lot of kids, though.
A:	And she thinks, yeah,
A:	twenty-five percent.
A:	It, it was a small school
B:	Oh, well, still that's a, you know, that's a good chunk of kids.
A:	But, uh,
A:	Yeah,
A:	but, I mean, a, a, a lot of people would get involved
A:	and, you know, because there were all different, organizations to do.
A:	There was Big Brother, Big Sister,
B:	Yeah.
A:	they had a yearly auction,
A:	they had a dance marathon for charity or, to, to support that, group.
B:	Yeah.
B:	That's neat.
A:	Such that, you know, lots of people got involved that way.
B:	That's great.
A:	Yeah.
B:	That's great.
B:	But, uh, like, I'll agree with you, though,
B:	I don't think they should have to do a year
A:	Yeah,
A:	no,
A:	neither do I.
A:	I think it should be completely optional
A:	and you know.
B:	Yeah.
B:	I don't think that, some people I don't think have, uh, a year in them to volunteer if you know what I mean.
B:	They're not worth it
A:	Yeah,
A:	they're not worth a year.
A:	Or some people just, just can't even afford it, you know, whatever.
A:	I mean, the Peace Corps doesn't pay very well. You know?
B:	Right.
B:	Oh, yeah,
B:	that's true,
B:	that's true.
A:	People get shipped off
A:	and then, you know, and then, and then their parents,
A:	I have a, uh, a, a friend whose, whose son is in the Peace Corps in Guatemala, or daughter is in the Peace Corps in Guatemala right now.
B:	Oh.
A:	And, you know, he and his wife just went off to visit her
A:	and, you know, I know I could never afford to go visit a kid in Guatemala.
B:	I couldn't either.
A:	You know, so
B:	I couldn't either.
A:	so I think, you know,
A:	and, and, and the kid's certainly not making much money.
B:	Right,
B:	right.
A:	So I can see where that, that, may be a problem.
B:	Yeah.
B:	I just know one person that's in the Peace Corps
B:	and, I mean, she's a teacher and, and just wanted to do it.
B:	She'd been a teacher for a while.
B:	Just decided she wanted to do it,
B:	so. I mean, I'm grateful for people like that,
B:	but, I don't see how they can just, Yeah,
A:	Just take off a year.
B:	just, pick up and head on out.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I don't,
B:	I wish I could do something like that,
B:	but I can't,
B:	so
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah,
A:	well neither can I,
A:	so, I, I, I, I, I, I, did my service before
A:	and I'll do my little community service throughout, but never  never for a year again.
B:	Right,
B:	that's the way I am.
B:	I know the feeling.
A:	So, so I guess our vote is no
B:	That's right
B:	We're against it
B:	That's right.
A:	Well, it's been nice talking to you again.
B:	You, too,
B:	and I hope everything works out up there.
A:	Well, yeah,
A:	we're, we're slowly getting everything back together again.
A:	You know, it, it's taking time,
A:	but everything, you know,
B:	Yeah.
A:	we got lucky.
A:	We had no damage to our house or anything
A:	so, The rest will just have to come with time.
B:	Good,
B:	good,
B:	that's great.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Well, good luck.
A:	Well, good luck to you, too.
B:	Thanks.
A:	Bye-bye or
B:	Bye video
A:	Okay.
B:	All right, uh,
B:	feelings on what caused the S and L crisis
B:	I guess I don't have a real technical knowledge for what happened
B:	I gather that there where large numbers of situations where loans were made that appeared to be a good loan but in a speculative since
B:	and with have little regulation going on because of deregulation during the Reagan eight years, uh, more and more S and L simply began to take riskier and riskier loans
B:	and then when they began to collapse one after the other I think almost like an avalanche of, of property values devalued.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	kind of like a domino's effect.
B:	Right.
B:	I don't have a, a field for whether or not this is the equivalent of what was called the teapot dome. Uh, scandal,
A:	Oh, .
B:	are you familiar with that, from your histories lessons or whatever.
A:	No.
A:	No.
B:	Uh, I vaguely recall
B:	but I've never gone and done any study on it since the S and L thing
B:	that teapot dome scandal is when I think during the Hoover years where gobs of land was, was sold at really inflated prices on the theory that there were natural gas beneath it,
B:	and that, that appeared to be corruption within the Hoover administration.
B:	I don't have a real since of, of like corruption that caused S and L all though I have a feeling that people look the other way when things began to go sourer maybe.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	No,
A:	I don't think it was really corruption that caused it,
A:	or within
A:	I think people just started, you know, not being as careful with the loans that they were making whenever, you know, whenever they gave them out.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I think maybe they didn't check into them enough
A:	or maybe because everyone else was doing they figured they would just go ahead and approve it also
A:	so.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
B:	It seems like there were on awful a lot of people making loans and business decisions on a
B:	get rich quick is the wrong phrase
B:	but, if it captures some of the, the feeling I have from the people making business decisions that if they failed it's sort of well no skin of my back
B:	I'll move on to this other company,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	or I, I just since that they didn't have a commitment to the stability of the organizations they were, were making the decisions for.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh
B:	And I don't know whether that's because they had other opportunities to which they could move, you know, that it was that easy for them to find new work that they didn't, weren't stuck to where they were
B:	and things begin to collapse
B:	they just moved on.
A:	I'm not sure.
B:	Or whether they had extracted enough money in a percentage base that they, that they didn't care any more,
B:	I, just, I'm rather puzzled about the, whole thing
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	I know, well, I'm, uh, I know a little bit about it
A:	but I don't as much as I should know about it
A:	I'm a finance major here at Clarion.
B:	Okay.
A:	And, um, I do know that one of the reasons that caused it is the fact that the federal reserved backed any loan that the Savings and L made with a, a hundred thousand dollars.
A:	So they were kind of insured with that hundred thousand dollars
A:	and I think that's kind of why they, they were making the riskier loans,
A:	because they were like oh, well, we have a hundred thousand dollars insurance on it.
B:	Well, they didn't, they didn't have a since of risk.
A:	No,
A:	I don't think so.
B:	Oh, okay.
A:	And, uh, plus where the fact where they were allowed to make loans in, any, almost any type of loan
A:	and like some banks, you know, they're limited to the types of loans that they're allowed to make.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And I think the S and L were more open with the types of loans that they were allowed to make.
B:	Okay.
A:	And I think if they would be more bound to certain loans and not as high of insurance by the reserve, then I don't think this would have happened.
B:	Okay.
B:	Well do you think we, there's a final accounting, yet not, in the since of pennies an nickels,
B:	but do you think there's accounting on an ordered of magnitude or, or that, that they really do understand how much money it is,
B:	for awhile it seemed like every time I opened the paper up it was escalating in terms of damage, uh,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	did, is your since that we now understand how bad it is, *listen
B:	or is there more to be heard yet.
A:	Um, I think that people just basically got tired of hearing it
A:	and it wasn't making, it was wasn't as good news as it was.
A:	I think it's still, you know, I adding up,
A:	and I think it will be for awhile.
B:	So you don't think necessarily they don't have a complete grasp yet,
A:	No.
B:	or whether .
A:	I, I don't think they do.
A:	I don't think how, I don't think how they could find that big, how much was really lost or how much they were going to lose, because there still are some S and Ls still open.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And it's, it's very possible for them to go down in the future because of this.
B:	To be caught in the .
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	Do you think to possibly is that it will help with the regular banks?
A:	I, I don't know.
A:	I I think it would be harder
A:	but I think there are some regular banks that will go down with it.
B:	It seems that I recall reading for the last oh, let's say starting three years a go but not so much in the last year of bank risks of relative to the loaning funds to third world countries like Mexico, Venezuela. Uh, and Argentina based on oil loans
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and then the price of oil had, had gone south resulting in those loans being very risky,
B:	and I guess I read articles of various banks that have done the right thing to contain their risks given that they had made multiple billion dollar loans.
B:	I have this vague since that, that could happen that, that there are still monies loaned out to third world countries that could end up being totally lost.
A:	Oh, yeah, um,
A:	in some of my classes now I was just reading
A:	I think it was in Venezuela
A:	I can't remember what company it was,
A:	but they just wrote off like millions of dollars because they know they will never get it back.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	You know, and they just, they just wrote it right off.
A:	I think, I think we've lost a lot of money
A:	and, you know, like we every never going to get it back
A:	it's impossible to get it back.
B:	And so you think that it's just gone.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh,
A:	yeah,
A:	cause we're, you know, we're talking about some peens that have just like even gave up on like getting it back and trying any more.
B:	Okay.
A:	They just totally wrote it off their book.
B:	Do you think it is necessary to have the federal guaranty program
B:	like my since is it was there to try to protect small investors
B:	but it ended up protecting big investors. Which I don't think what it was meant to do,
A:	Oh.
B:	so I guess I, I feel like as long as we have the possibility for this large numbers of people to be protected the possibility exist for these sorts of problems.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	um, yeah,
A:	I think is it necessary to have, um, the backing, um,
A:	it, it's, it's just for, you know, safe purposes, you know, in case something would happen. Um,
A:	yeah,
A:	I don't, I
A:	yeah,
A:	as long as there's enough little companies we're going to have to have something.
B:	Um, so your since is that the, that, uh, the loan guaranties which really were accounts guaranties, so the, so that the account holders that if something went wrong they would have their money.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Right.
B:	And given that the S and Ls have had disasters then those account holders are, are, their money is still being protected.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And that is it's million of people with anywhere from thousands to tens of thousands I guess of, Of dollars being protected.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	It, it seems like, um, there was a lot of money being protected in multiple accounts, uh,
B:	it's,
B:	if, if you take ten million people and protect ten thousand dollars it still only a hundred billion dollars
B:	and we're taking about monies way in access of that now
B:	so it's obvious that we've protected large accounts.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And perhaps multiple people in multiple S and Ls
B:	and, and it seems like maybe that needs to be thought about, rethought.
A:	Yeah.
B:	You know that the, for,
B:	I guess I'm content with the need to have protection on, on accounts
B:	but I feel likes it's on an individual basis.
B:	Someone whose got accounts in thirty-five different S and Ls or thirty or forty thousand dollars
B:	and they're all protected by the government.
B:	Seems to me like they've gotten around what was intended to be the issue there.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	I guess I don't have a personal since of V on it since I, was not a heavy user of any S and Ls
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, and let alone any of them that went bankrupt.
B:	And I guess that means that from my perspective it could happen again,
A:	I think it could happen,
B:	because that means, I'm not worried enough, uh,
A:	yeah,
B:	it's kind of thing where maybe we'll survive
B:	and then I, then it will happen again because we don't pay attention to those kinds of things.
A:	I think it'll happen again
A:	but I think it will be a long time in the future before it does happen again.
A:	Because I think like the bank people in any kind of people like that are going to be worry enough not to let it happen again in the near future.
A:	But I think later on they're going to start and forget about and start making the riskier loans
A:	because I mean, you're going to have to take some risk
A:	and as long as their backed I think they're still going, you know, start taking on riskier loans,
A:	and I think there is a chance of it possibly happen again but not until, you know, late, you know, in the future.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Well, perhaps if there are regulatory, uh, constraints put back in place. It will protect that
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	maybe we have learned a little bit of a lesson here about what happens if you remove a little of the regulation, uh.
A:	Well, my family moved to Texas about eight years ago.
A:	My husband was raised here, by
A:	I, I have never lived here,
A:	so, um, when we came back to Texas, I was really kind of excited.
A:	There wasn't a state income tax
A:	and there wasn't a tax on food that we purchased at the, the grocery store and things.
B:	Huh-uh.
A:	And all of that was new to me,
A:	because I'm sort of feeling like we're getting a better deal here than what I was accustomed to.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Did you move from the Northeast?
A:	Well, I lived in Missouri and then in Utah
A:	and them, um, both places had pretty good state income tax.
A:	And, um, we've always paid tax, you know, on everything we purchased, even food at the grocery store.
A:	So, I thought it was really, you know, kind of a pretty good deal not to have to pay tax on your groceries
A:	and, but, I think, I mean, I don't enjoy paying taxes.
A:	And it's hard,
A:	but, um, I think that is what we have to have, you know, have our streets and have, have our government and Excuse me. And have, and have the services that we need
A:	and we have to pay for them and pay for the employment of the people that run them and, and things like that
A:	and I think, I guess, what I feel is that most people, um, they don't like to pay taxes because they feel like there's some people that aren't paying their fair share.
B:	Yeah.
B:	I think,
B:	yeah.
A:	And, um, that makes you feel bad.
B:	People that can really influence the government have all the money to throw.
A:	Right.
A:	And you know, when, um, when last year the elections were going, on the governors election and state and, you know.
A:	I, I didn't have anything against Clayton Williams personally or anything,
A:	but, um, it was kind of hard for me to think, here's someone as wealthy as he is,
A:	didn't have to pay any income tax.
A:	That he said that year,
A:	he claimed, he had, he didn't have to pay income tax
A:	and he thought, you know,
A:	there's some people are living pretty, pretty good life styles,
A:	but they're not paying income tax.
A:	And that's not fair, to me.
B:	No.
A:	And there's, you know, some people, you know, who are abusing the systems that we pay taxes to support
A:	and all that makes us feel bad.
A:	But I think, all in all, how I feel, is that, um, I'm willing to pay the taxes because I think I like our country compared to the other countries I've studied and visited.
A:	And I'm willing to pay extra to live here and to enjoy the services that I enjoy.
A:	How do you feel?
B:	Well, yeah.
B:	I agree that you have to pay taxes for the services you get
B:	and, and I think that, you know, I don't think that there's any really, any system that everybody would think is fair, as far as, being taxed.
A:	Huh-uh.
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	So, I guess, in Texas with,
B:	we live here also,
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	and that it's mostly sales tax,
B:	so it's, really the people that have money to buy things are paying the more because they're paying the sales tax on the larger items that they buy and stuff.
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	I've lived in Texas most of my life.
B:	We, um, lived in Kansas City for a couple of years,
B:	and we were kind of in for a rude awakening.
B:	They had personal property taxes on like cars
B:	and, the first year we were there it was kind of like, eight hundred dollars,
A:	Oh, no.
B:	And we're like .
B:	My husband says I used to complain to pay sixty dollars to get licensed in Texas
B:	and now, you know,
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	So, I mean, that was kind of different
B:	and then to file a, a state income tax, was also kind of tough, too.
B:	I guess, since we've been married, we've moved a lot,
B:	so it always seems like, you know, we're always paying taxes for something.
B:	And it was kind of nice this year to finally be able to get a little money back.
B:	But, I, um, have a accounting background,
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	so I then, have also done tax returns in the past for other people when I worked for an accounting firm.
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	And, uh, you know, it is kind of sad to see how the people that have the resources to hire somebody and have the money to spend to put there money in places, they don't have to pay taxes.
A:	Right.
B:	Or to buy something that loses money so that they can offset the income that they get or whatever.
A:	Yeah.
B:	So, you know, I think, if, I can understand why the rich people don't want to pay, you know, a large, large percent
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	because, you know, that's not really fair, either.
B:	If they've earned money by themselves, well, you know, people just kind of given the money,
A:	Yes.
B:	it's kind of depressing sometimes, I think.
A:	Well, it is,
A:	and sometimes, I think, um, well, for myself, that income that we have, we pay a certain salary,
A:	but, I think the employer keeps in mind this will be deducted, you know,
A:	so, so many taxes will be deducted from it
A:	and so, I think, you know, our salaries are a little bit higher because we have to pay taxes on it.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And so, I think, you know, in that way, we're compensated, um, just by our society. Um,
A:	yet, you know, they don't pay you, um, what, just what it would take,
A:	and if you pay taxes on it, you wouldn't have any money left over.
A:	And, and, um, but some of the people that make a great deal of money and everything I wish that they would, I guess, because I'm not one of them I wish that they would, you know, realize that they, they couldn't make this kind of money,
B:	Well, yeah,
B:	that's true
A:	they couldn't live that kind of life style anywhere else.
B:	Yeah.
A:	In that,
A:	even if they made that kind of money, there's some countries that have like, fifty percent income tax, you know, that have, socialized medicines and things that,
B:	Yeah.
A:	they, um, they wouldn't be able to enjoy the in that.
A:	So that, you know, they need to be willing to pay a little bit more for it.
A:	Yes,
A:	they've earned it.
A:	And yes,
A:	they have such great fortune here,
A:	but they need to pay for it, too, because they couldn't do it somewhere else.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Um, I like Texas, um, not having the state income tax
A:	and I hope that
A:	because, um, we've had enough industry here, that, I guess it,
A:	is that why we don't have
A:	industry here is able to, to fund the state because we have oil here and things,
A:	I mean, that's what I've always heard.
A:	Is that, um,
B:	They must have enough other stuff because the way the oil has been the last few years, that, that really has not been, the industry that is bringing in the money for the taxes, I wouldn't think.
A:	Big boom.
A:	Yeah.
A:	There's something about, um, the industry in the state, That, um,
B:	Yeah.
A:	there's enough.
A:	I know, we moved here from Houston
A:	and the city had enough money.
A:	It was really nice that they had, um, that
A:	they began to cut back because of the oil problems,
A:	but, um, they would have, um, so many community outdoor theaters and, And like, uh, community country club type things.
B:	Huh-uh.
A:	That the,
A:	it was such nice services to offer the residents in the city
A:	and I really liked that.
B:	Don't you have to,
B:	why people decided to expect certain services,
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	Then, they don't really think they should pay for them, maybe.
B:	I don't know.
A:	Yeah.
A:	That's true.
A:	And I, you know, like
A:	the property tax that we pay is so much higher than my parents pay in Missouri.
A:	But, um, I'm, I'm comfortable at least in this year, with, with,
A:	we have some good schools.
A:	The school thing might be changing
A:	but, I'm willing to pay for that for my children.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And I'm willing to sacrifice, I guess.
A:	I'm not going to be the type of person that's going to grumble about the taxes, even though we're paying a pretty high percentage.
A:	I feel like you get what you pay for
A:	and I want to be here
A:	and I enjoy, I enjoy living here in this country
A:	and having seen other countries, I'd much rather live here and pay taxes, than live somewhere else and not
B:	Huh-uh.
A:	Anyway, well, I guess, I better let you go.
B:	Well, it was nice talking to you.
A:	Yeah,
A:	it was nice.
B:	I haven't ever, I need, I've never initiated one of these phone calls.
B:	Do you call in
B:	do you get to pick the subject
B:	or,
A:	No.
A:	No.
A:	They just define it to you
A:	and so, you get what, uh, get luck of the draw
B:	Oh.
B:	I see.
A:	but,
B:	Yeah
A:	Yeah,
A:	anyway, well, good luck to you.
B:	Okay,
B:	you, too.
A:	Bye.
B:	Bye-bye.
B:	Hello
A:	Hi
B:	Hi,
A:	My name's Ken,
B:	Hi Ken,
B:	my name's Diane.
A:	And, um, you're in Texas,
A:	right?
B:	Yes,
B:	I'm in San Antonio.
A:	Everybody's in Texas.
A:	God,
A:	I'm in Rochester, New York.
A:	Everybody else but one has been in Texas.
B:	Oh.
A:	Okay,
A:	well I guess we should get on with this.
B:	Okay.
A:	Um, did you get the message about what it was,
A:	right.
B:	Yes.
A:	Okay,
A:	go ahead,
A:	I'm going to hit the button
A:	Okay, um,
A:	do you think that the Soviet Union represents a threat to us?
B:	I think they'll always represent a threat whether or not there's an active cold war or not. Uh,
B:	it's, it's a totally different economy based on different beliefs, and, and, uh, different priorities,
B:	and, uh, given the, the, uh, military powers on both sides, I think it's always a threat.
A:	That's interesting.
A:	I don't,
A:	I, I suspect they're not our biggest threat anymore.
B:	Probably not,
B:	no.
B:	Right.
A:	but, um, I wonder if they're, I wonder how much of a threat they are.
A:	I agree with you that, that they'll always be somewhat of a threat given that they have, that there's just, it's just so big,
A:	and there's just so much military machine there.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	and, and it's recognized that the two great powers are us and them,
A:	Right.
B:	and, and the great powers are always pitted against each other.
A:	But I wonder how much longer they're going to be a them.
B:	I don't know
B:	They, they're going downhill pretty steady.
A:	Yeah.
B:	But I, I agree right now they're not,
B:	I don't believe they're a large threat right now.
B:	I think there's always some threat.
A:	Yeah,
A:	oh, I agree.
A:	I mean, if we were to, if, if something were to happen, I'm sure they would all of a sudden band together just for the sake of, for the sake of, uh, of, of unity against us or something if, if, if need be.
B:	Yeah,
A:	But,
B:	Actually I feel kind of sorry for them right now, because the people are, are, are, uh, wanting things that we have that they're not
B:	I mean, just some basic freedoms,
B:	and, and their government is not allowing it,
B:	and Gorbachev seems to be going back on some of the things that he's been trying to push.
A:	Yeah,
A:	actually I noticed this I mean, this, this, this most recent scare of his, where he said, or he just decided that instead of having, uh, instead of having, I can't think of the word now, if there are any demonstrations for, in favor of Boris Yeltsin, he decided, well, I'll just cancel all demonstrations altogether.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	So, I, I, I think that, he, he, he's actually,
A:	he, I think, is becoming very dangerous because he's making those people angry at him,
B:	Yeah.
A:	and he's also, I think he's also making, um, the military angry at him.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I mean, I've heard stories now where the, where the, um, the military is running around,
A:	and they're sort of getting restless,
A:	and a restless military is the kind of thing that happens, you know
A:	like with the Baltic states when they just go in there
B:	Yeah.
A:	divvy the people up.
B:	and he's going to wipe out, no telling how many of his own countrymen, uh, right in the middle of Red Square,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, uh, it's going to cause a, more civil war than is already occurring.
A:	That's interesting.
A:	I, I wonder,
A:	I don't know if he's,
A:	he, he seems,
A:	I don't know though.
B:	I don't know.
B:	I mean, and it, it might be something that he wouldn't be able to control.
A:	That's, that, that's something that really true
A:	sort of a military thing I was speaking of before.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	That's, that's certainly true.
A:	I mean, his military may just go out and say, Well, we just,
A:	Gorbachev said you can't do it,
A:	and we're to not let you do it, you know.
A:	So.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah,
A:	that, that's real scary, actually.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I mean, I, I, I would expect their own problems would keep them away from us for a while,
A:	but it could be real dangerous.
B:	Yeah,
B:	we've got our own worries at the moment.
A:	Yeah,
A:	right,
A:	we don't need to worry about them.
B:	I guess as long as, uh, they're fighting each other, we don't have to worry about them wasting their time with us.
A:	Yeah,
A:	but wouldn't it be nice if no one had to fight anybody else.
B:	Well, sure,
B:	that, but that's a, that's an impossibility, I think given the differences in the world,
A:	Yeah.
B:	and people are just too different.
A:	Well, I don't, I don't know.
A:	I think that underlying we're all pretty, probably not as, as different as everybody thinks.
B:	But unfortunately, people, people aren't that insightful.
A:	Right.
A:	Well, that's, that's certainly true of it.
B:	They just see that this guy prays differently and to someone else than I do.
B:	So, therefore, he's wrong
B:	and he's bad,
B:	and we have to wipe, wipe him out.
A:	That's true.
A:	I was, I was discussing with someone before, um,
A:	this, someone before, actually one of these calls
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	matter of fact about another topic,
A:	but it came up,
A:	one of these calls
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	matter of fact, about, um, another topic,
A:	but it came up,
A:	one of these, this, this poem, Everything I Wanted to Know I Learned in Kindergarten, or something.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	You've read that one before.
B:	No,
B:	I haven't read it.
B:	I've heard all about it, though.
A:	That, this, this is the idea that I think is actually very, is, is, what I think we should all revert to.
A:	The idea that, um,
A:	basically they said, everything happened in kindergarten,
A:	and in kindergarten we learned to share,
A:	and we learned to, um, play with each other,
A:	we learned to take nap, and to take naps,
A:	and whenever we'd start a fight we'd all apologize and hug each other you know,
B:	Yeah.
A:	and that would be all.
A:	If we could just do the same thing sort of, with, with, with everybody else, I suspect we'd, we'd be fine.
B:	Yes,
B:	but people grow up,
B:	and they forget.
A:	Yeah,
A:	unfortunately.
B:	Well.
A:	Because I often, I often sort of wonder how, having never been to the Soviet Union, um, how different the people there really are, you know.
A:	How much ,
B:	That's one of the places I would most like to go.
B:	Not right now, of course
A:	Yeah.
B:	but at some point I would like to go to Moscow and, and, to, just to see all these things that you can see on television now and can read about
B:	that ten years ago we didn't have this kind of information
A:	Right.
B:	and we didn't know what things were like.
B:	So.
A:	I would, I would love to go there. I mean, like, again, not now, but at some point, to go see what, what this is like,
A:	I mean, this, this is amazing, because, this is, this is an, this is an example of an entirely different culture that wants to be like us.
A:	Like you said before,
A:	so it would be interesting to watch.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I and, I, the, the people.
B:	I just feel so sorry for the people in the country, that they can't, I mean, they, they can't do
B:	they can't change it.
B:	They try
B:	they, and they, there's nothing that they can do.
A:	Yeah,
A:	that's, that's
A:	and the ones I even feel somewhat worse for, even, um,
A:	the ones in like the Baltic states where they don't have a strong leader, then, you know,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	at least, at least Russia has some sort of strong leader.
A:	I mean they have Yeltsin who may, who may yet sort of help Russia.
B:	Yeah.
A:	But, um, I mean, the Baltic states, I think, are just sort of trapped.
A:	I mean, they were taken over couple, you know, not too long ago and then just sort of told, well, you're here now,
B:	Yeah.
A:	you're part of our country.
A:	You be this way.
A:	It's a, I think it's a sad state of affairs,
A:	but.
B:	It's, it's probably not dissimilar from the, uh, what are they, the, the, the, I'm trying to think of the name of the, the , something like that in Northern Iraq who are actually countrymen of,
A:	Oh, yeah,
A:	yeah.
B:	I mean, some of them were split off into Israel, I believe,
B:	and some of them are in Turkey when actually they, they don't, they're their own people and their beliefs and their own culture system.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Right.
B:	And they were split up into three different countries.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah,
A:	well, yeah,
A:	and that.
B:	And, and they're very dissatisfied,
B:	and they're, they're causing wars right now,
B:	and I don't think it's that different from what the Baltic states are, are going through.
A:	Um, um, um, uh, actually it sounds very, I mean, very similar.
A:	They're sort of being, they were sort of forced,
A:	and now they just want to sort of speak up and say Hey,
A:	we want our piece.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And they have like a problem,
A:	they have Muslims to deal with as well as Saddam Hussein.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I, I mean I think their big problem up there is, you know, unfortunately,
A:	not only are they
A:	there's more than one group fighting for the same place.
A:	They all want the, you know,
A:	whereas the Baltics are saying, Oh, we want our own.
A:	We just want this little tiny piece of land.
B:	Yeah.
B:	The, the one that I think,
B:	one of the women that I work for is married to an Iranian,
B:	and so she has a lot of insight, because she knows a lot of the history of the countries over there,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and within five or six countries there are probably ten cultures of people,
A:	Yes,
A:	yes.
B:	And that's, they don't all have their own country,
B:	and, and some of them are mad about it
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Um, actually, my wife is Syrian,
A:	so I, I, also I know some of the history .
B:	Oh.
A:	And actually the other funny thing is that I'm, I'm Jewish.
A:	We're sort of like the Middle East peace talks ourselves.
B:	Oh, uh-huh.
A:	So we, I, I know,
A:	I've been to Israel,
A:	and I know,
A:	and I sort of toured the area,
A:	and I know that it really is very, lots of different cultures in one place, I mean
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and it's the same thing I it's, it's almost the same thing out, out in the Soviet Union right now.
A:	There, you know, there are,
A:	you can't take a whole bunch of people who just aren't the same people and don't want to be together and put them together forcibly.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I mean, we did it couple of hundred years ago here,
A:	but they wanted to do it.
A:	So.
B:	Yeah,
B:	and I don't think the people here two hundred years ago were that different,
B:	I really don't.
A:	That's, that's certainly true.
B:	I mean, they had the same ideals and the same basic beliefs.
A:	Right, uh,
A:	I wonder, I wonder if now the people in the Soviet Union don't have ideas very different from that.
B:	they might.
B:	The Baltic states might be feeling the same way that our forefathers felt when they were leaving to come here ...
A:	Good morning.
B:	Good morning.
B:	Uh, okay,
B:	go ahead.
A:	, no,
A:	no,
A:	go ahead.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I understand the topic this morning is, uh, our policy in Latin America and, you know, what we've been doing down there.
B:	So, uh, as you indicated you don't have too much input into the area
B:	it, it just so happens that, uh, our daughter-in-law is Panamanian,
B:	and, uh, we have been in Panama
B:	and I have worked in El Salvador
B:	and, uh, we visit Mexico occasionally,
B:	so, yeah,
B:	we, we do have a little information on it here,
B:	but, uh,
A:	Oh, very good,
A:	because actually, um, when I was in college I visited Mexico several times,
A:	I was in the Peace Corps and, um, Peru,
B:	Oh, uh-huh
A:	but, but recently I have been following the Middle East rather than, Central America
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah,
B:	it does seem to have quieted down there just a little bit
B:	that's, that's for sure.
B:	No,
B:	I,
B:	the U S policy, uh, towards Central America as far as, uh,
B:	well, I kind of go back to, to the El Salvador thing because Texas Instruments had a, a plant down there for a while,
B:	and I worked in there for a little while,
B:	and at that particular time,
B:	let's, let's see,
B:	that was seventy-three, seventy-four kind of before the, the, uh, the Civil War really picked up down there,
B:	and U S policy at that particular time there was, of course, military assistance to, uh, to the government itself, you know,
B:	anything that's, that's anti-Communist, you know, we kind of had a tendency to be pro
A:	Right.
B:	It don't matter what their excesses were,
B:	and I believe at the time that I was down there, that, uh, the government, uh, the Salvadorian government you know, really gotten out of hand yet,
B:	the, uh, right wing death squad type situation
B:	I believe that, that was beginning to form
B:	but I don't, I, I wasn't really aware of it's being, you know, terribly, uh, you know, at the time that, that I was down there,
B:	I think that really kind of developed a little bit later on,
B:	but, uh, our policies seem to be pretty much one of, uh, you know, trying to setup businesses down there and use the one resource, anyway, that Salvador had,
B:	plenty of and that was people.
A:	Right.
B:	We didn't seem to be going in and taking anything out of the country other than just it's, it's labor,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	because everything that T I did anyway we, we shipped in
B:	and it was worked on down there, assembled, and then sent back here,
B:	so,
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	did that have,
B:	I didn't feel that we really exploiting them any.
A:	Um, so, you don't, you don't feel that, that we were, um, exploiting in the sense of we were benefiting
A:	and they weren't.
B:	No, uh,
B:	in the particular incidence that I was aware of, now T I wasn't the only ones in there,
B:	Playtex was in,
B:	there was, uh, several other companies,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, uh, of course, we kind of concentrate on ,
B:	there wasn't much to take out of the country
B:	I felt like we're going in and taken all their, um, their gold or oil, or bananas or coffee or anything like that,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	because, uh, it just,
B:	the only thing that they had a great abundance of was, uh, you know, human beings
B:	and, uh,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	did we tend to, um, change their attitudes
A:	like sometimes when Americans go into foreign countries they tend to flaunt American things, Americanism, um, consumer products, T V, the whole works.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I understand what you say.
B:	There was a, uh,
B:	the time that I was down there, I stayed quite a, a bit at the, uh, uh, one of the big hotels San Salvador.
B:	and I saw this in Panama also,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	uh, oh, you know, it's, it's the, uh, the almost stereotype, you know,
B:	flowery shirt, shorts, camera hanging around their neck, you know, demanding this, that and the other thing, you know,
B:	we're, we're here,
B:	and we want this,
B:	and we want that,
B:	and that sort of thing,
B:	that's, that's the stereotype that's very strong down there, you know,
B:	the, the, the, you know, that sort of thing,
B:	I, I, I believe those of us who were working down there, got a little bit more appreciation for, you know, the local, uh, culture
B:	I really don't believe that we were quite that bad,
B:	but yet they were having to deal directly with, uh, you know, with the, uh, the local people.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	And, uh, but boy
B:	there is a, there is a bad, uh, uh, you know, the old brash or ugly American-type, situation.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And I saw incidences in the hotel where I just wanted to go over and crawl in the corner and say, oh, my God
B:	those are, those are not Americans
B:	they can't be.
A:	Right.
B:	But there are
B:	and, uh, of course, now I, I do have to, I remember one case where we had some Canadians in there who were every bit as bad,
B:	but I mean, it, I think it's just kind of the North American situation .
B:	In Panama they've been used to Americans down there for so darn long
B:	but I didn't see quite as much of that sort of thing, as Panamanians are just about as as, uh, as as Americans, as far as, uh, creature comforts, you know,
B:	they're, uh, they're, they're every bit, uh,
B:	I, I know, when, my, my son was in the Air Force
B:	and he was stationed in Panama,
B:	and he married a Panamanian girl,
B:	and when she came up here, uh, you know,
B:	she's, except for the language situation, some of the cultures she's just about an American, you know, is as far as T V and, and, you know, the, the moneymaking part of it and all that,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	matter of fact if anything, she's worse.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh
B:	But, uh, uh, it, it just, there's little enclaves down there where, you know, Americans have a lot of influence
B:	and the local population kind of, um, you know, sort of accepts that,
B:	but I've also seen the other side of it, too.
A:	Uh-huh
B:	Well, you were in Peru?
A:	Yeah,
A:	I was in Peru,
A:	but, um, I, there weren't, as I recall, or at least I wasn't aware of that many Americans there except for a very heavy concentration of Peace Corps volunteers,
B:	Uh-huh
A:	this was when the Peace Corps first are started,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and it was one of the big targets
A:	and, um, I don't, I don't think, at that time, at least, Peace Corps was, uh, an obnoxious group in the sense that, that we were very controlled regarding number of days off
A:	and, and you couldn't just, take up, take off and leave your group and go explore and, and things like that,
B:	Oh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but, and I was working actually in the savings and loan program,
A:	so, that was quite specialized,
A:	although I was living in the slums, I was really working with the middle class.
B:	Uh-huh
B:	What, uh, what area did you live in?
A:	I was up in Arequipa .
B:	Oh, okay
B:	yeah.
A:	And, um
B:	I've heard of it.
A:	Uh-huh
A:	so.
B:	Well, is, are they, is Peace Corps still active down in there?
A:	I don't have any idea, um,
A:	probably not,
A:	I mean, there were I was, uh, Peru thirteen, which meant there were twelve groups before mine, that had gone in
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and, and some of them were quite big in the sense they were community development,
A:	and they were building schools and doing co-ops and things like that,
A:	health, um, inoculation and, and things.
B:	Oh, has those influences lasted
B:	do you know whether the, the things that, that you and your groups before you did, did those, did those live on
B:	or were they reabsorbed
B:	or how,
A:	No,
A:	no,
A:	I believe they did
A:	because, um, some of, some of the, the Peace Corps, uh, that I knew of, did marry Peruvians, and have been back
B:	Uh-huh
A:	and every now and then some news filters in that they went to see some of the old things,
A:	and of course, the savings and loan program, um, that was, that, you know, that, that just continued to grow.
A:	In fact, after my group,
A:	I mean, we were just a very small specialized group, too, to get that going and spread
A:	and then, of course, Peace Corps bowed out of that because that's, uh, uh, something that nationalized very quickly.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And the same with the co-ops.
B:	Well, that's, that was kind of the, the aim wasn't it, to get it started and then have it, taken up by the,
A:	Right.
B:	oh, okay,
B:	so, you know, well, that's,
B:	I had wondered sometimes,
B:	I knew that there was a lot of, a lot of effort
B:	and a lot of work went into a lot of that,
B:	and I just wondered if, if it lasted, and if it took, you know,
B:	like, uh,
A:	Uh-huh
A:	Yeah,
A:	I've, you know, some of the programs I would have concern about like, um, the language teaching, you know,
A:	I mean, why should we push English,
B:	Uh-huh
A:	and a lot of people were down there teaching English
A:	and when they talked about Hungary or someplace, one of the eastern law countries requesting Peace Corps to teach language, you know, to me that's a little bit marginal.
A:	I did teach economics at the university one night a week,
A:	and the textbook was in English,
A:	but basically I taught it in Spanish, because, I mean, I really didn't see the point in their knowing stuff rotely and writing it on a test.
B:	Oh.
B:	Yeah,
B:	my brother-in-law teaches at, uh, Northern Illinois University
B:	and they were in China, here a couple of years ago,
B:	and he was over there at, uh, the University of Shah and, and teaching ...
A:	So, uh, describe your family budget.
B:	Well, I've, uh, for a lot of years I, I've pretty much flied without one,
B:	and, uh, just recently, uh, we, we set up a budget,
B:	and, and we're trying to stick to it.
B:	We just bought a new house.
B:	So we've got everything, you know, pretty much we know what our, uh, our fixed expenses are per month,
B:	and then we've got some ones that are variable, that pretty much stay within a certain range,
B:	and then, uh, then there's the ones that you never know anything about,
B:	and that's, that's the food
A:	Well, yeah,
A:	and to some extent, utilities, I imagine.
B:	well, the utilities are pretty much,
B:	you can pretty much figure what they're going to be,
B:	and one of the nice things here is the electric company has a plan where they'll average them out for you.
A:	They have that to some extent here,
A:	but it's not quite as good.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, transportation expenses,
A:	I guess you own a car.
B:	Yes
B:	sir.
A:	And you know how much you're going to drive every week?
B:	Well, I used to, um, I used to know, uh, fairly close to exactly how many miles I drove, because I, I was very convenient, I lived, uh, nine tenths of a mile from work.
A:	Huh.
B:	So, so, it was, you know, two miles a day to and from work.
B:	So it kind of cut my transportation costs a lot.
B:	But now I've just bought a new house,
B:	and I'm a half hour,
B:	and so my transportation costs have gone up by, uh, five times
A:	Yeah,
A:	I understand that.
A:	We, we have a real similar situation.
A:	Ours, uh, have quintupled, at least.
A:	So there is a real family budget.
B:	Yeah,
B:	pretty much, um.
B:	The problem is there never seems to be enough money.
B:	I have three children,
B:	and it seems like the more money you make, the more money you have, the more things that they seem to need,
B:	and, uh, of course, nothing ever goes down,
B:	I mean, uh, I remember,
B:	I have five children total.
B:	I have three left in the house.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And I can remember years ago, when school would start,
B:	and I'd go buy all five kids, you know, shoes,
B:	and I could get out of the, out of the shoe store without spending more than thirty-five dollars.
B:	Nowadays, thirty-five dollars buys about one pair of shoes
A:	If you're lucky.
B:	yeah,
B:	so I mean things have just really gone out of sight in the last, uh, I guess about the last ten years.
A:	Exempt or nonexempt.
B:	I'm exempt.
A:	Wow,
A:	must be nice.
A:	Part of the high price spread. Uh,
A:	no,
A:	well, we don't, we do,
A:	but we don't have a family budget.
A:	We have the fixed things we have to pay.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And we have the things that are extras.
A:	But it seems that by and large the extras just don't exist.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And, well, you know, the auto budget,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And insurance,
A:	is insurance bad there?
B:	Um, I've got, uh, two older cars.
B:	There both,
B:	one's a seventy-seven
B:	and one's a seventy-eight.
A:	Well, we've got one eighty-nine.
B:	And my insurance is about, it was running about four hundred dollars a year.
B:	But when I moved to the new town I live in,
B:	because it's a different county, which has less crime, and, uh, less, you know, less highways
B:	and so it's a cheaper place to live, as far as the insurance company's concerned,
B:	so my, my, I think my insurance dropped about sixty dollars a year.
A:	Wow.
A:	That's not bad,
A:	four hundred and something a year.
A:	That's, that's,
B:	It's actually three hundred and forty for each one of the cars.
A:	That's cheaper than we pay.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I was down in Texas for two years,
B:	and I was paying unbelievable rates for both car insurance and for home insurance. Um,
A:	Well, here in Colorado it's even worse because we have no fault.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Do you have that there?
B:	they have no fault in Maryland also.
A:	Well, no fault's rather funny in Colorado, because it seems that everyone pays all the time instead of just the guilty party pays.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah.
B:	It's kind of, it's kind of strange here the way things go. Uh,
B:	here if you have an accident and no one's injured, the police won't even show up.
A:	You're kidding.
B:	Nope.
B:	They say if nobody's injured, you all exchange names and take it up with your insurance company.
A:	God.
B:	Well, if you,
B:	I don't know how familiar you are with Maryland,
B:	but, uh,
A:	Not at all.
B:	especially, the center part of Maryland where I Ninety-Five runs through it is really heavily populated.
B:	There's just so many people and so many accidents every single day that it'd take a whole another police force just to answer the traffic.
A:	They don't even try to keep up with it.
B:	No.
A:	God.
B:	Not a bit.
A:	So you lived in Texas for a while.
B:	Yes
B:	sir.
A:	Huh.
B:	I spent, uh, couple of years down there.
B:	Moved down there in eighty-seven
B:	and moved out in eighty-nine.
A:	Are, where you from originally.
B:	Uh, right here in Maryland.
A:	Huh,
A:	so you just basically went home when you had a chance.
B:	Yeah,
B:	my family, uh, didn't like Texas,
B:	and I had a chance to, uh, transfer up.
B:	T I bought a company about seven months after I moved to Texas, right here in .
A:	That's nice.
B:	So I got an opportunity to transfer back,
B:	and I took it.
A:	God,
A:	that's great.
A:	Uh, I'm a native Texan.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	West Texan.
B:	Yeah.
A:	There is a difference.
B:	Yeah,
B:	believe me,
B:	I know there is.
B:	I lived in Plano,
B:	and I don't know if you're familiar with Plano
A:	Yeah.
B:	but Plano, maybe five percent of the Plano actually were from Texas.
B:	Everybody else was an import.
A:	Well, I'm a West Texan.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Lubbock, Midland Odessa Amarillo, Dumas, Panhandle.
B:	Yes.
B:	Yeah.
A:	A different world from down there.
B:	Yeah.
A:	So, uh, Colorado's been fun.
A:	But they have a real problem.
A:	Next to every window the state seems to have put up a turnstile.
A:	And every time you look at a, look at the mountains or think about looking at the mountains, you got to throw in a dollar.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Or so it seems.
A:	I may just be paranoid,
A:	but that state income tax is just eating me alive.
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah,
B:	they have a state income tax in Maryland.
B:	But I noticed when I was in the, in the, in Texas, they didn't have a state income tax,
B:	but they sure nailed you on those darn county taxes and, school taxes and property taxes,
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah.
A:	Property taxes and,
B:	Oh my God,
A:	Yeah,
A:	well, Colorado, you know they have the state income tax,
A:	but then they also have property taxes,
A:	and they also have sales taxes,
A:	and they just get you every direction they can.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And I just don't know, sir,
A:	but it seems like they trying to get you every which way.
B:	Yeah,
B:	it sure does. Um,
B:	there's, uh, some good books that I've read, um, that you might be interested in. Uh
A:	Oh yeah?
B:	Charles D. Gibbons is the guy who runs some ads on light night T V
B:	and he's got seminars you can go to,
B:	and they try to hook you into his organization, which costs about four hundred bucks.
B:	But he's got a couple of books out.
B:	One of them is called, uh, WEALTH WITHOUT RISK.
A:	I've heard of the book.
B:	Yes,
B:	it's a very good book.
B:	It's tells you how to cut money on your taxes and on your insurance and then what to do with the money that you save.
A:	Legally?
A:	Legally, cut money on your taxes.
B:	Yes,
B:	yes,
A:	Huh.
B:	legally, legally cut money on your taxes, and on your insurance,
B:	and then he tells you how to invest that money in order to, uh, you know, be wealthier. Uh,
B:	he also has a new book out that I purchased right before I moved and haven't had a chance to crack it open yet. Um,
B:	FINANCIAL SELF DEFENSE is the name of it. Uh,
B:	the man, uh, has a lot of good ideas,
B:	some of them I already knew about,
B:	some of them I had already practiced.
B:	But I suggest it to anyone who wants to be better off financially to read it because, uh,
A:	And that includes everyone at T I.
B:	Yes,
B:	I'm one of the ones that had my salary frozen for ninety-one.
B:	Yes.
A:	Well, even, the, you know, the nonexempts, technically yet we haven't had our salary frozen yet.
B:	Yet.
A:	But when you're only at living wage it doesn't matter.
A:	You know, survival is a funny state.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I know what you mean.
B:	I, uh, when I was in Dallas I was supervisor,
B:	and I had four non exempts, um, under me.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And, uh, I was appalled at what, how they were paying them.
B:	I just couldn't believe it.
A:	Did, well, I've been with the company for sixteen years now.
A:	I was a W F for several years,
A:	and it just never seems to improve.
A:	It, and it doesn't seem to get much better for the exempts either, unless you're twenty-eight or above.
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah.
A:	It's really a shame.
B:	Well, I, I've, this company that they bought, they ended up buying a very high payroll.
A:	Oh.
B:	And, uh, the, you know, I thought I was making a good wage,
A:	So, how do you feel about the metric system?
B:	Oh, I like it.
B:	I, I, I have a foreign, actually I have more than one foreign automobile.
B:	And I, I, I find the, uh, I find the, the nondecimal system with all the halves and quarters,
B:	I was trying to build a shed
B:	and they give you these measurements like forty-two and three eighths inches
B:	and we had to go a little less and trying to figure what's less than three eighths, uh ...
A:	Yeah,
A:	and it's,
A:	I forget how many millimeters.
A:	So you used the metric?
B:	Well, no.
B:	What we did was wind up using,
B:	and, and you get out the, the, so many inches
B:	and, and we just marked a little bit less than that, uh, which is somewhat awkward
B:	but had it been millimeters, you could have done.
B:	I think what's interesting,
B:	the way engineering people do is they,
B:	they, in essence, have gotten around it by, by listing, uh, decimal inches.
A:	Uh, yeah,
A:	yeah.
B:	Do are you involved in any engineering drawing stuff that?
A:	Uh, yeah,
A:	yeah.
A:	Uh, I work in metal fab
A:	and tenths of inches are, are normal.
A:	And, you know, you know, it is broken up in, you know, the inch is broken up and has been for quite some time for, in tenths, hundredths, thousandths, ten thousandths, of an inch.
B:	Well, have, have you, do you, are you involved in any other, uh, metric type things like ...
A:	Yes,
A:	I am.
A:	I, I have a Suzuki motorcycle
A:	and, and I've had motorcycles, Japanese motorcycles for years and years
A:	and the metric system comes easy to me.
A:	But my ...
B:	I think it's interesting you you know, when you go out there
B:	and you're looking for a wrench
B:	and you want the next size larger.
B:	I've got, I inherited some, some stuff like fifteen thirty seconds.
A:	Right.
B:	Well, now that one's fairly easy, because that's probably slightly under half an inch.
B:	But some of them, like, like, twenty-seven
B:	and, and there are some thirty seconds and some of the things that, that, uh, don't translate.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah,
A:	yeah.
A:	To go from, from eighths to sixteenths to, uh, thirty seconds and remember where it falls, it ...
B:	Yeah.
B:	and, and you've got to go over there and try it
B:	and I suppose, you know, I need a larger one.
B:	I need a smaller one.
B:	I mean obviously you can look at it and say well, anyway.
B:	I think the other thing that's interesting is that a lot of our stuff is already changed that we haven't,
B:	I don't know,
B:	do you, do you drink adult beverages?
A:	Yeah,
A:	I drink beer.
B:	have you noticed that, um, that a lot of the, um, a lot of ...
A:	Yeah,
A:	whiskey is in liters.
B:	Yes.
A:	And, and the next,
A:	yeah,
A:	point seven five liters and then liters and then one point seven five liters,
A:	yeah.
B:	It's like a fifth, like fifths of whiskey I thought was always kind of strange.
A:	Yeah.
B:	What's a fifth of whiskey?
A:	Yeah.
A:	I, I always wondered about that myself.
B:	It was a marketing ploy.
A:	And, and they had quarts at the same time though.
B:	Yeah.
B:	But the idea was, is that by, with five fifths, um, they could, uh, they could, uh, they could sell five
B:	and, and, um, it was simply a ploy to, to get people, you know to buy, to buy more for,
A:	Yeah.
B:	it's, uh, I find that interesting.
A:	It's ...
B:	But it's like, you know, the, the, the, the soda and this kind of things coming in one liter bottles
A:	Liters.
B:	and, um, I, I think it's kind of generational.
A:	Yeah.
A:	It, it's, like I say, I work in a machine shop
A:	and, uh, everything's still inches.
A:	Everything's still fractions of inches, or or tenths  or thousandths, or, or ...
B:	Yeah.
B:	It's, it's hard to think  though.
A:	Yes.
A:	it is a mental thing.
A:	It is a conversion thing.
B:	It's like a mill, you know.
B:	We, we do, uh, um, well we use a one mill bond wire or one point five mill bond wire on on semiconductor devices.
A:	Right.
B:	And well, what's a mill
B:	and ...
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah.
A:	But what really annoys me is the way we, in the United States, have been converting to metric.
A:	We have a eighty-nine Chevy Blazer.
A:	And before that we had a Horizon. Uh, you know, Plymouth Horizon?
B:	Yeah.
A:	And both of them were a mismatch of both American and metric.
B:	Don't you find that interesting? Uh, that they, that that they're doing that, uh, in any field,
B:	for why, why, why pieces,
B:	could you, could you get any connection on which was metric and which wasn't.
A:	Uh, okay.
A:	The engine itself was mostly metric because it came from Canada.
B:	Oh, okay.
A:	And the starter was Bosch American,
A:	so.
B:	The bolts were, were were, were English then.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah.
A:	It was, it was annoying.
A:	One, one half of the starter you know, three bolts on the starter
A:	and two of them were American
A:	and one of them was metric.
B:	Now that's strange.
A:	And, uh, you go from the, uh, water pump up to the radiator
A:	and on the water pump, it was all metric.
A:	And, and on, you know, the factory fittings, you know, the factory, uh  screw lock uh, uh, radiator hose clamps.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Essentially they do that though
B:	because if, if you look at General Motors, the size
B:	and, and, and of course, Ford and Chrysler.
B:	If they all went, if they all went metric,
B:	but in a sense, um, you know, it's like when a measurement though, when, when you put, uh, you know, one point four three two inches, when you're milling something, uh  you simply set your, uh, equipment,
A:	Yeah.
B:	or, or you or you got your calipers there
B:	and, and you measure, you know,
B:	you mic it to see if it's accurate
B:	and.
A:	Right.
A:	It's it's not a problem either way.
B:	No.
A:	Like I said, my only complaint is where they mixed them on the same car.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And you go to look at it
A:	and you don't know which set to reach in, American or metric.
B:	Yeah.
A:	and, and, you're never quite sure,
A:	well, is that a metric bolt.
B:	You get you a pair of metric pliers, right
A:	Right,
A:	right.
B:	And you beat on it
B:	and a metric hammer
A:	It, it can be annoying
A:	and my other concern is, is the American government going to force us to go.
B:	Oh, I think, I don't think so.
B:	I, I think that, uh, I think they've now just taken the attitude that, well, if it happens, if it,
B:	because it, there a lot of things that, that, uh, um, like sports, you know.
B:	It's a hundred meter.
A:	Oh, absolutely.
B:	And, uh, uh, but automobile races
B:	if it,
B:	I don't think they'd ever,
B:	it's still going to be the Indianapolis Five Hundred.
B:	They're not going to ...
A:	Yeah,
A:	Yeah.
A:	They're not going to change that to meters.
A:	It will always be.
B:	Yeah.
B:	And, and it, I, I don't think it, I don't, you know, I don't think, I don't think it's particularly bothersome because in reality, uh,
B:	you, it's like troy ounces in ounces of gold.
B:	How many ounces of gold, you know.
A:	Twelve.
B:	I was trying, I was trying to figure up gold content on something.
B:	It had, has, uh, gold plated, uh, header.
B:	And, and they're trying to think of what's a Troy ounce.
A:	Yeah.
A:	There's twelve troy ounces to the pound.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Now that makes, you know.
A:	Yeah.
A:	And, and is that going to change too?
B:	Well, I mean, and, and then there's a metric ton
B:	and then there's a ton.
B:	But what's a metric ton?
A:	Uh,
B:	I don't know.
A:	I don't remember.
A:	I, I read it.
A:	And are we still going to maintain drams for perfume?
B:	Yeah.
B:	And, and then, but then the medicine.
B:	And, and some of these other things
B:	and, and the chemistry in those kinds of areas,
B:	milliliter.
A:	It's all metric all ready.
B:	Yeah.
B:	And, and so, um, but, but when you go to order a drink, um, you know. say, they, they, I don't know, it's uh ...
A:	And what will a shot be?
A:	Will a shot be an ounce?
B:	I don't know.
B:	And, and, but, you know, when you go to the store and, and you're trying to figure, you know, well this box is, is, uh, is, is twelve ounces
B:	and, and this one's, uh, uh, three pounds, um,
B:	and you ...
A:	And the other one's two point one kis,
B:	That's right.
B:	And, and I don't know.
B:	I, I think that, I, I think, I think the Federal government is going to, more or less, leave it alone.
B:	I think they've got, I think there are more pressing problems.
A:	Oh, yeah.
A:	The economy.
B:	Yes.
A:	Uh, what I was thinking about is an economical issue concerning it. Uh,
A:	a machinist has a huge number of dollars invested in tooling.
A:	Personal tools to be able to do his job.
B:	Yeah.
B:	But, but are, are the tools that, uh,
B:	if you're cutting,
B:	are you talking about cutting equipment or tools for for set up?
A:	Uh, tools for set up and for measurement.
A:	Uh, you got to have a one tenth indicator,
A:	it's a hundred dollars. Uh,
A:	five tenths uh, usually two one tenth indicators at a hundred dollars each. Uh,
B:	Huh.
A:	five tenths indicator at about a hundred dollars.
A:	You got to have, uh, six inch set of calipers at anywhere from sixty to a hundred twenty dollars.
A:	You got to have a zero to one for sixty dollars. Uh,
A:	one to two inch micrometer for sixty dollars.
A:	A two to three for eighty dollars.
A:	A three to four for eighty dollars.
B:	So you've got thousands of dollars or so.
B:	I mean you get a thousand dollars worth of tools.
A:	Real fast.
B:	Yes.
A:	Real, real fast.
A:	Edge finders and ...
B:	But I was thinking about though that, that when you actually get to the milling equipment though, when it starts turning ...
A:	Well, I know,
A:	because, okay.
A:	Your end mills will be measured in inches or fractions of inches.
B:	Yeah.
A:	You know.
B:	But you, when you, when you simply drilling a hole, I mean, a real simple thing, like gee,
B:	I need a hole there.
A:	What size hole?
B:	Yeah.
A:	As in metric size hole or a, or an American sized hole?
B:	Yeah.
B:	And, and what, but the thing is then you've got to with screws
B:	and that's the other issue. Uh,
B:	the pitch and ...
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah.
A:	Well and thread,
A:	Uh, I don't go to the movies a whole lot,
A:	but, uh, I went two or three weeks ago for the first time in a long time and saw DANCES WITH WOLVES, which turned out to be an extremely good movie.
B:	I haven't seen that yet.
B:	I, I, I hear,
B:	we, a whole bunch of us were going to go see it.
B:	It's playing at school actually in about two weeks, I guess.
B:	So we're going to go see that.
B:	But you enjoyed that?
A:	Yeah,
A:	it's, it's something that, uh,
A:	my brother lives over in Fort Worth,
A:	and I was telling him about a couple of weeks ago,
A:	and he said, Well I'll wait until it comes out on, uh, tape and rent, rent the video.
A:	And I said, no,
A:	this is not one that you want to do that with.
B:	That's what I heard,
B:	yeah.
A:	It's, uh, the scenery and the landscape and the country that they're in needs a big screen.
A:	It's just beautiful country with the hills and the trees and the buffalo and the whole thing,
A:	it's just, uh, just amazing, amazing picture.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I've heard it, it, it's not one for the videos.
A:	No,
A:	it's one I think,
A:	but, you know, every now and then you find one that you say, yeah,
A:	this is my favorite movie.
A:	Well, this is the one for me this time.
B:	Really.
A:	Yeah.
A:	What have you been to lately?
B:	Um, let's see.
B:	Well, uh, this is almost, sort of funny.
B:	I was just um,
B:	friend and I went to see OUT FOR JUSTICE which is Steven Segal, because, uh, we're both big karate fans.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Oh, yeah.
B:	So we wanted to see what this is like.
B:	And, uh, impressed with actually.
A:	Is that right?
B:	Yeah,
B:	I wasn't, I mean, I've seen his other movies,
B:	and I just think he's pretty good.
A:	Yeah.
B:	But, uh, this movie,
B:	I'm convinced now he can act.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	How's his karate?
B:	Oh, his, his, his karate is pretty good.
B:	I think in this one it wasn't so good.
B:	I generally, um,
B:	movies like that scare me, though.
B:	I'd be just fine without them, because, you know, kids come running out wanting to beat each other up.
A:	Well, well they do,
A:	they get
B:	Fighting.
A:	I remember when we used to go to see, well I remember when GRAND PRIX came out when I was a kid, and some other movies like that.
A:	We wanted to jump in the cars and race.
B:	Right.
A:	And I suspect today what they see is bound to be what they want to do when they get out of it.
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah,
B:	well, that, that was number one for the week actually, too,
B:	so, so it was a little bit, uh,
B:	I was thinking, Wow,
B:	people must be into crime movies again.
B:	But, but in the middle of that conversation we sort or picked an, um, an interesting point.
B:	Last year's number one movie for the year was GHOSTS.
A:	Is that right?
B:	I don't know if you saw GHOSTS or not.
A:	I did see GHOSTS.
B:	Yeah,
B:	and, and, and that was, that, that helped us sort of feel good about, you know, about ourselves and about one around us, in that at least, at least, if everyone's running around seeing karate movies and stuff like that, at least they're still going to see the real good movies, you know.
A:	Yeah.
A:	I think that GHOSTS was one of those that a lot of people didn't think was going to be any good.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And it turned out to be an excellent movie.
B:	Yeah.
B:	It was, it, I was absolutely enthralled by it.
A:	I've forgotten the guy's name who was in it, who had the lead role.
B:	Oh, Patrick Swayze?
A:	Yeah,
A:	and I especially like him.
B:	Yeah,
B:	he's very good.
A:	He's a really good guy.
A:	Other than that, DANCES WITH WOLVES seems like to be the only thing I've seen in the past several months to have any,
B:	Really,
B:	I'm trying to think what else I've seen recently.
B:	What else have we seen recently.
B:	Oh, you know, what's pretty cute actually. Um,
B:	DEFENDING YOUR LIFE.
A:	Is that right.
B:	Have you heard of it?
A:	I've, I've seen the ads for it,
A:	but I'm not real sure what it's about.
B:	Yeah, um,
B:	I actually hadn't heard anything about it,
B:	and some friends called up and said do you want to go see this movie,
B:	and, and they said it starred, um, Meryl Streep and Mel Brooks,
B:	at first they told me.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And I thought, what a strange combination,
B:	Mel Brooks and Meryl Streep.
A:	That is a strange combination.
B:	Well, actually, it starred, that, that it's actually Albert Brooks,
B:	so it's lot better.
B:	Mel Brooks you probably know.
A:	Yeah.
B:	I know,
B:	so it, it was a strange combination.
B:	But it turned out to be a very cute movie.
B:	I mean, the whole premise is that they go out
A:	Oh, yeah.
B:	and they have to,
A:	Both of them.
B:	Right.
B:	Both of them are dead,
B:	and they happen to meet in this, this town, um, this, this sort of city where you're set up.
B:	You know, they go
B:	and they decide if you can move up to the next level.
A:	Oh.
B:	I don't know if you've ever read Jonathan Livingston Seagull,
B:	but it's something like that.
A:	Yeah,
A:	years ago.
B:	They sort of move up to levels,
B:	and, and they have to decide whether or not they're good enough,
B:	and as it turns out, you know, they meet there and fall in love and stuff like that.
A:	Oh.
B:	So you can guess the rest of the plot.
B:	It actually, it's, it's really funny because they run through, you know, what they have them do is sit down and see scenes of their lives.
A:	Oh, yeah.
A:	And then defend it.
B:	And that's pretty good actually.
A:	Well, I guess that's where the title comes from then.
B:	Yeah.
B:	And it's
B:	you actually have to go up there
B:	and you have a, they have an attorney for, you know, attorney for you and attorney,
B:	a defense and a prosecution,
B:	and you know, the prosecutor's job is to make sure you don't move up a level,
B:	and the defense's job is to make sure that you, you do, you know.
B:	It's, uh, it's a neat little story actually.
A:	Yeah,
A:	it is.
B:	I was, I was, I went thinking it'll be okay, not great,
B:	and then I actually came away thinking it was really pretty good.
B:	So,
A:	It's funny,
A:	we've got a couple of movies out recently, GHOSTS and DEFENDING YOUR LIFE, that have to do with, uh, after life, I guess.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And it kind of makes you wonder,
A:	I'm also, besides working at T I, I'm a graduate student at North Texas and working on master's in communication.
A:	It's the behavioral science part of communication,
A:	and I think about these things and people trying to define their own world view,
A:	and, uh what exactly do we, you know, do we see about this world,
B:	Um.
A:	or why are we so fascinated with the other world.
A:	Is it supposed to be better?
B:	The other world,
B:	yeah.
A:	Sometimes I think we think it is.
A:	We like those things that way.
B:	Um, I'm, I'm sure that it seems like,
B:	it certainly would, would explain the preoccupation with ,
B:	but I suspect it's always been a preoccupation with that sort of things.
A:	Well, it has.
A:	All the way through history, there's, I guess,
A:	if you want to call its mysticism or the occult or whatever. It's always fascinated.
A:	I guess because we don't know,
A:	and there's no real way of finding out.
B:	Right,
B:	well.
A:	There's only one way of finding it.
B:	Well did you ever see, um, FLATLINERS.
A:	No,
A:	I did, uh, did not.
A:	The girl next to me saw it,
A:	and she really liked it.
B:	That's, that's, that's probably one of those ones that, you know,
B:	it's on video now, I think.
A:	Yeah,
A:	it is.
B:	Probably, probably worth seeing on video.
B:	Actually we really enjoyed it,
B:	but it was also right along the same lines.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah,
A:	they said, she said that this was almost believable
A:	that could really happen.
A:	You know, you get the medical profession doing these kinds of things,
A:	and you never know.
B:	Almost,
B:	yeah,
B:	I, I, it's a little far fetched to, find a bunch of medical students doing it,
B:	but but, it was, um, it was, it was odd enough, you know,
A:	Yeah.
B:	and they didn't just sort of make it silly.
B:	It was, you know, it was done fairly well, I think.
B:	So. Actually, I actually enjoyed that as well.
A:	Yeah.
A:	I like it when they will do something and not get too silly.
A:	I've been disappointed in some movies that, they don't know how to end it, it seems like,
A:	so then they get crazy
A:	and, and it doesn't end like the story has been going.
B:	The story sort of keeps going and going.
A:	Well I guess that covers our topic.
B:	Yeah,
B:	great.
B:	Well, it was, nice talking to you.
A:	Nice talking to you.
A:	Bye.
B:	Bye-bye.
B:	That sounded like one.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Um, I think that there is something definitely wrong with our school system just because of the results that you see coming out of the school system, as far as, uh, people dropping out of school, uh, grades on test scores being low, uh, more and more people taking G E D trying to get out of high school instead of just going through high school.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah.
A:	You know something must be wrong as far as, uh, not just the teaching techniques but just motivation, within, within the schools themselves.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah,
B:	excuse me just a minute, uh,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I'm on the other line Karen.
B:	I'm sorry.
A:	Oh, it's okay.
B:	Okay.
B:	Uh, she, uh,
B:	yeah,
B:	well the, the results,
B:	I, I hear what you're, you're saying about the results.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, uh, it's, what to do about it I guess is the, the big thing.
A:	Yeah.
B:	I'm, I'm in a kind of an interesting situation in that my, my wife teaches school here in Plano.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, I know that, uh, the results that they get out of the system sometime is, is certainly not you know, up to what the effort they put into it, you know,
B:	I've seen that for years,
B:	yeah.
A:	Right,
A:	and, I know, uh,
A:	I work around, you know a lot of teachers
A:	and I I understand how, uh, supportive they are of their students and how excited they are,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but some how, I don't think the students are getting excited.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I've often wondered if it doesn't come back to the, the home environment.
A:	Oh, yes
A:	definitely,
A:	uh-huh
B:	And, uh, it, if, uh, no matter what they do in the, the classroom, if they go home at night and, you know, it's all totally undone, uh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	The, the thing that, uh, uh, that Karen, my wife, has, has run into so often is that you run into a group of kids that are going to succeed no matter what, no matter how bad their teachers are, no matter what a lousy system they're in, or anything else,
A:	Right,
A:	right.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	these people somehow manage to, uh, you know, push on through and are successful.
A:	Progress,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	It's, uh, unfortunately probably what, maybe twenty-five or thirty percent of them do that.
A:	Yeah,
A:	not, not even that much probably.
B:	Well, that would be, be at the absolute most.
A:	Yeah
A:	uh-huh.
B:	And, uh, you know, those, those that, you know, come out, you know, fall out of the system, that are, are real trouble,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I, I wonder whether that's just a, uh, uh, a part of the system, you know,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	if, you know, in a democracy where, you know, people have kind of, uh, a freedom to sort of do what they want, you know, there, there's an inefficiency there,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and you've got to let those, you know, those,
A:	And speaking, speaking of doing what you want, uh, just in society today being that it's nineteen ninety-one, um, a lot of teenagers and young people have a lot more freedom as far as what they do, as far as, you know, even, even something as simple as staying up late, um, watching television late, um, going out late, start dating,
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Oh, oh yeah.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	you start dating too early, you know,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	just little things like that, that do start in the home,
B:	Yeah.
A:	that can, that plays a big part because you spend eight hours of your day, or more in school
A:	and so any other part of your life, that's going to definitely affect your school life, because you spend so much time there.
B:	Yeah.
B:	And sometimes in some systems they make everything so competitive, you know,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	you, from the minute that you walk in until, until you leave, your, your competing against somebody else
B:	or your competing against, uh, a system or, or something, you know,
A:	Right.
B:	and then, a lot of
B:	there is a personality type I believe that is really noncompetitive.
B:	They're cooperative rather than competitive,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and when they get into a real competitive system they just say, oh well, what the heck, and, uh, tend not to, you know, do too awful well .
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Right,
A:	I talked to, a guy the other day
A:	and he is now in, in a program that's trying to get him out of high school because he, he fell back several years ago
A:	and he's going to, he, he will have gone to school five years.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Um, and the reason that he was doing so badly a couple of years ago was because his mother died,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and he was having to, uh, support his entire family, take care of his brothers and sisters, you know,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and all that had an adverse affect on his school life.
B:	I would think so,
B:	yeah.
A:	And, yeah,
A:	and that, and that's a perfect example of how your home life, you know, plays a definite part.
A:	And, you know, any other aspect of your life,
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah.
A:	an, but now, now, that he's in this program and, you know, he's, I guess okay,
A:	he's, he's making straight A
A:	and, you know, it just, it, it was there, it was just, I guess school was not a number one priority for him at that time.
B:	Yeah,
B:	it, uh,
B:	right,
B:	survival becomes more of a priority than, than education,
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	and unfortunately, you know, there's, uh, there's and old joke about, uh, you know,
B:	education's wasted on the youth anyway.
B:	You don't, you don't really appreciate it until you're much older anyway.
A:	Right,
A:	exactly.
B:	I know when I went to school, uh, my attitude was kind of one of, you know, these people are, you know, taking a tremendous amount of my time, you know,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and I've got better things to be doing than sitting here listening to this stuff over and over again.
A:	exactly.
B:	I guess today that would be, uh, some how or other there would be a program of some sort that would take care of that sort of thing,
B:	but.
A:	Um.
B:	The, uh, the cure, some of the cures that I've heard for this that, that sort of make sense,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	uh, most teachers after they have taught for a very long, especially at the, the lower grades can spot a problem almost immediately.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, uh, it's kind of these intervention programs.
B:	Now, a lot of people will get to looking at these and say hey that's socialism
B:	and that's communism,
A:	Right.
B:	and that's, you know,
B:	and then it gets political.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But, uh, boy.
A:	When people start talking about programs that help, for me, I don't care if it's socialist,
A:	or I don't care, as long as it's something that's going to do some good or that looks like it could be beneficial,
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	yeah.
A:	I mean, that's the point I'm at now.
A:	I mean that's the point we all should be at, is like finding some solution,
B:	Um, yeah.
A:	I mean, you know, nothing totally radical,
A:	but if it's something that, you know, might help, you know,
A:	because there's not a lot being done.
B:	Well, you know, the, the radical programs in some cases are just totally unacceptable.
B:	There are kids, families, that should just simply be taken out of the homes, you know. And, uh, uh, you know, uh, just removed from those situations,
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
A:	Right.
B:	or they're never going to get anywhere.
B:	But yet, politically that is not a very popular view.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I'm sure that if you, you know, ran on a platform of, you know, we're going to find the kids that are having trouble at home and we're going to take them out of the home.
A:	Take them out.
B:	Yeah,
B:	you know how far you're going to get with that.
A:	Yeah,
A:	not very far at all.
B:	Uh, but unfortunately it's, it's something like that, in lieu of that, you know, is the intervention programs in school where the, these kids are, are spotted fairly early on,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, uh, you know, there's, well that's get to be a problem in Texas, you know, because different school systems have got more or less money to take care of that sort of thing,
A:	I mean it's, it's almost like,
A:	Right,
A:	right.
B:	you got counselors and all that.
B:	But you know, you can counsel a kid eight hours a day
B:	and then he goes home
B:	and, and, uh, you know, in the, in worst cases he's got parents either on drugs or, or something like that,
A:	Right.
B:	or they don't care.
B:	You know, mamma, guess what I did in school today,
B:	well who cares, you know.
A:	An a lot of it, a lot of the parents now are so young.
B:	True.
A:	You know, that they're, they still, they still don't know what's going on
A:	and how are they supposed to, you know, teach their kids that are coming up, you know, what's going on.
A:	I mean it's just, it's a vicious cycle, that we're, you know, dead, smack dead in the center of
B:	Yeah.
A:	and we have to try to swim out.
A:	You know, kind of like the Bermuda Triangle,
A:	we're just sinking
A:	and it's almost impossible to swim back up.
B:	Yeah.
A:	But, um, yeah,
A:	there's definitely problems,
B:	Yeah
B:	I'm,
A:	its just the solutions that, you know, they're going to be in our political system,
A:	they're going to be on everyone's mind for quite a while, too long.
B:	I don't know if you've ever had too much to do with, uh, oh, especially Asian, Japanese families coming,
B:	here in Plano we've got, uh, quite a few.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	Uh, engineering types, people who have come from Japan,
A:	Right.
B:	and they put their kids in the U S schools
B:	and they're appalled.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	You know, not so much at what the schools are teaching, but what they let the kids get away with.
A:	Um, uh-huh.
B:	You know, they, they see most, uh,
B:	they're, they're quite upset about the, uh, the disruptive influence of school.
B:	Most of them would say, you know, those people should be removed from the school system.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	And in Japan they would be, you know.
A:	Right.
B:	But, uh, here again, you get back into a political thing, where, uh,
A:	Yeah
A:	there's, there's,
A:	right.
A:	There's definitely too much leeway as far as,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I mean, I've only been out of, I've been out of college only two years,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and you were saying that you don't appreciate education until you get out
A:	and I, I already, you know, I really didn't, I really don't see myself going back to school or anything,
A:	but, I appreciate more what I had.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And I had all these classes and all this knowledge and this big library across the street from my dorm,
B:	Yeah,
B:	were you at Baylor?
A:	and I just didn't take as much advantage of it as I should have.
B:	Yeah,
B:	did you go to Baylor?
A:	No,
A:	I went to U T at Austin,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	Oh, oh, okay.
B:	I'm, uh,
A:	So, I mean all kinds of resources and, you know, just there,
B:	Yeah.
A:	and I'd give anything to have that right now in my, in my regular
A:	I mean you, you have everything given to you.
A:	I don't see why people wouldn't want that.
A:	I don't know,
A:	I,
A:	but then, if I was young, I wouldn't see it.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	well that's, that's it
B:	you, you don't have, uh,  you don't have the view.
A:	But you know, now that it's gone, I,
A:	Right.
B:	I graduated from Texas Tech, more than two years ago, I guarantee,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, you know, I kind of look back at it sometimes,
B:	well that was a lot of fun,
B:	but, you know, I'm not sure that, that I took the greatest advantage of, you know, what, I went through there.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Right,
A:	yeah,
A:	I did a lot
A:	and I experienced a lot
A:	and I, I feel like I got a good college education
A:	but just when I got out I feel like I should have spent more time in the library,
A:	I should have taken those continuing educations classes or whatever they were, you know,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	the informal classes that you don't get credit for, you know ...
A:	All right,
A:	I guess our, we're in the process of a home repair right at this point
A:	because we're, we're painting the outside of our house.
A:	I don't know,
A:	I guess you would consider that a home repair.
B:	Huh-uh.
A:	Certainly, uh, uh,
A:	and interesting enough, this time we're changing the color which makes it an addition.
A:	What is your most recent,
B:	We just did that, too.
A:	You did that recently too, uh,?
B:	Yes.
A:	Does it make a big difference?
B:	Oh, yes
B:	we have brick on the outside
B:	and, uh, the colors that were there changed the, and the colors that we painted changed the entire look of the house.
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	Completely.
A:	That's neat isn't it.
B:	Yeah.
B:	That was really exciting.
B:	It was fun.
A:	I was really, really tired of the color.
A:	That it's, it's helping.
A:	We're not quite through,
A:	but it's, it really is looking good.
A:	Uh, we went through a process of, of, uh, home repairs on a, on a rental house we had,
A:	probably the most extensive and, uh, the interesting part of it was how much we learned about what we could do.
A:	Um, we didn't have very much money
A:	and so we had to do it ourselves in kind of a slow process,
A:	but we learned how to do, uh, retile bathtubs and, uh, oh, just all kinds of things that are unusual.
B:	Huh-uh.
B:	So the other thing that we did was the roof of our house.
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	And, uh, we did that a different color also.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Of course, uh, being a woman most of these things were done by the men.
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	And, uh, so I wasn't directly involved
B:	but, uh, they really were helpful, I know, to our house.
A:	It's nice to not have a drip through from the roof, isn't it
B:	Yeah
B:	Yes
A:	That's awful.
A:	Um, Howard and I were talking about home repair the other night and, uh, in connection with scouting.
A:	We've got a scout coming up
A:	and, uh, uh, I think it's neat for young people to learn how to, uh, take care of their, of a household, you know, like, uh, fixing faucets, dripping faucets,  and putting in panes of glass and stuff like that.
B:	Huh-uh.
B:	As a matter of fact, one thing, I have a young son
B:	and one thing we did, was we had paneling on the inside of our, uh, front of our house, or the hall way of our house, rather,
B:	and we were repainting the, the front room in the hall there,
B:	and we took down that paneling
B:	and he helped me
B:	and, and, uh, he was, it was fun to work with him. And, uh, and, uh, help putty up the holes together and, and do things,  like that.
A:	Huh-uh.
A:	How does the paneling,
A:	it looks lots better than,
A:	do you like it better?
B:	Oh, I like it so much better.
B:	It makes it so much lighter.
A:	Yeah.
B:	You know, it really does.
B:	You know, and people that have been to my house before and then now really have liked,  much better, too.
A:	Huh-uh.
A:	That's nice.
B:	It's been fun.
A:	Nice to have it come out positive and look,  look good.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Exactly.
A:	Well, we have a lot that needs be done.
A:	We have, uh, uh, carpeting,
A:	and, and we did have a new, uh, floor put in our kitchen.
A:	And, um, I have my mother living with us
A:	and so she was in a room with a carpet
A:	and, of course, she's quite aged,
A:	she's ninety-three now,
A:	so that meant she had problems now and then
A:	and it was really good to get the carpet out of there and put a linoleum down.
A:	So it was easier to clean and see where the dirt was
A:	and  so that was a really positive, uh, uh,
B:	Huh-uh.
A:	it was fairly expensive though.
A:	I, I was impressed,
A:	I think, that, uh,
A:	we had somebody do it
A:	and it was, it seems to me like it's probably more expensive to put down linoleum almost than it is to put down carpet.
B:	Huh-uh.
A:	Kind of depends on the quality of carpet, I suppose,
B:	Yeah.
A:	but, uh, in the case of the linoleum they have to rip up everything and, and fix the floor
A:	so it's, uh,
A:	I don't know,
A:	what ever,
A:	but they have to put stuff on the floor
A:	and it's, uh, kind of a process.
A:	Well, it sounds like you have some pretty good experiences with, uh, with, uh, uh, home repair.
B:	Huh-uh.
B:	We have.
B:	It's been really fun.
A:	Yeah.
A:	All right.
A:	Happy home repairing.
B:	Okay.
B:	You too
A:	Bye-Bye.
B:	Bye-Bye.
A:	Hi,
A:	what do you do with your credit cards?
B:	Oh
B:	Well, my husband and I have gotten into some, some problems with credit cards.
B:	We don't handle them very well
B:	We, we tend to run them up to the maximum and then ask for more.
A:	Oh, jeez.
B:	They, they're, they're really bad for us.
B:	Um, matter of fact, we've gotten rid of all of our credit cards except for a MasterCard and a Visa,
B:	and we pretty much keep those maxed out.
A:	Oh, I was going to say that, that sounds like, like pretty many.
A:	But I see what you meant,
A:	you had them for each of the individual stores.
B:	Yeah,
B:	we had I had probably twenty credit cards for,
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	I had, I had an American Express, American Express Gold, an Optima, all the different department stores, um, two Visas, two MasterCards
A:	Oh, gee.
B:	I mean, I had,
B:	any time anybody would, you know, send me an application, you know, preapproved or whatever, I went, I took it,
B:	and it really ended up getting us in some real serious trouble.
A:	Oh, sure.
B:	Um, because, see, the more credit cards you have, the more people offer them to you.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	And the more you use them, the more they send them to you.
A:	But each of these had an annual fee also, right.
B:	Exactly.
B:	The American Express was probably the worst, um, because with the Gold card,
B:	I can't remember how much it was because I didn't even have it very long before I gave it up
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but I know the Green card was like thirty-five, five dollars a year.
A:	Yeah,
A:	forty five.
A:	Right, uh,
A:	I,
B:	Which was a lot,
B:	because I mean, you had to pay it in full every month.
A:	Exactly, you know,
A:	I, that's it,
A:	I really resented the fact that they were charging me for cards,
A:	so I sent back all of mine, except the ones that were free.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, um, then, then I also limited it to one of each, one MasterCard and one Visa,
A:	and here, most of the stores will accept those,
A:	and actually I then got a Discover card since they pay you back.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	yeah,
B:	I had a Discover,
B:	and that was one of the ones in the group that I ended up, um, closing.
B:	Um, it really wasn't my choice, though.
B:	I mean, I ended up having, I ended up actually losing my credit cards.
A:	Oh.
B:	Um, I ended up going through a credit counseling service um, because my husband and I just don't handle credit very well
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	yeah.
B:	and, um, when, when you do that, they automatically, once you start with their service, they close your accounts out.
A:	Oh, I see.
B:	So, I'm still paying on all these accounts,
B:	but my accounts are closed.
A:	Yeah.
B:	So, and I would prefer to keep it that way.
B:	Once we, once we're paid off um, I would prefer just to have one MasterCard and one Visa
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and that's it.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah.
A:	Actually I pay off my cards every month.
A:	Only once in my life have I not paid.
B:	I think that's a really good way to handle it, because that way, if you, if you paid off every month, you never have to worry about, well, how much do I have to pay these guys, you know, this month, you know.
B:	This, you buy what you can afford.
B:	I mean if you handle it just like you would like a check or cash it's a lot easier to keep it in check.
A:	Right.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
A:	Well, and also in a sense, they're giving you a loan for a month
A:	so that you know, if I were smarter, I would have that same amount in savings and get the interest, which I don't do,
B:	Yeah.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but, but yeah,
A:	the, the thought of adding, you know, X percent to, to the price of what I buy, I just, I can't accept.
B:	Yeah,
B:	and I, and I think at this, at this point in time with the economy the way it is, I think that, um, it's going to get even worse.
B:	Um, I'm, I'm glad that we're starting to pay our debts off, now, um, you know,
B:	we, only we started this last year
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	and we probably still have about another year to go before we're completely out of the hole.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But I think this, they way the whole economy is going right now, it's just not good to be in debt.
A:	That's right,
A:	that's right.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah,
A:	that, I would, that would be a very scary feeling for me to know that I was, you know, juggling payments to different people I guess because I never experienced it.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And it's not, because you know, I'm rich or anything,
A:	it's just, a mental concept that I have. Yeah,
B:	Yeah.
A:	that I just.
B:	Well, when you, when you're getting rid of the whole credit card cycle, and if you really get into the mind set, I got really good at juggling money and basically robbing Peter to pay Paul,
B:	and it was scary, because I was so good at it.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	And I thought, this is not right.
B:	I mean, this has got to stop, because eventually it'd end up catching up at, catching up with me
B:	and it hit me in the face.
A:	Right,
A:	right.
B:	Um.
A:	But it sounds like, you know, you, you learned from it
A:	and you're coming out of it all right.
B:	I, yeah,
B:	I have,
B:	I've learned a lot from it.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I've learned that credit cards are extremely dangerous in my hand and my husband's too, because he's, he's the same way I am.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I don't, I don't think that,
B:	well, when we buy on credit we just don't have a concept of how much money we're spending until the bill comes in.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And then all of a sudden you look at the bill
B:	and you go, Oh my gosh,
B:	I spent this much.
A:	But now, the fact that you still have two cards,
A:	are you, do you use them, more judiciously?
B:	Yeah,
B:	we pretty much use them for emergency type things like transmission fell out on our car
A:	Yeah.
B:	and that paid for a new transmission
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	um, and, and things like that.
B:	Um, and we try not to use them for incidental type things, like, you know, gas and stuff like that.
A:	Purchases.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh
A:	Clothing, sales.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Sales I find are a pain.
B:	Yeah.
B:	I've, I've gotten, I've gotten a lot more away from, from credit cards,
B:	and I pay by check a lot more now.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
A:	Well, it sounds good, you know.
A:	Like I said, it sounds like you're, you've really got it under control.
B:	I, I admire you for having, having that mind set for not, not even getting, you know, past the thirty days,
B:	I would, that's ideally the where, where I would like to be.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
A:	Yeah,
A:	and like I said, once, once it, it happened I couldn't because my son's tuition came due,
A:	and I guess I had, you know, not really counted on it quite at that point
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but, um, yeah,
A:	I didn't like it at all.
A:	I was very uncomfortable.
A:	So,
B:	I can imagine.
A:	You know, and, and I mean, it was, I thought a lot,
A:	sixty dollars interest or something for, for just a couple of months,
A:	and I'm going jeez, that's outrageous,
B:	Yeah.
A:	but in, in, you know, retrospect it wasn't all that much,
A:	I mean a lot of people pay a lot more
A:	and and, you know, but still, I mean, I figured I didn't need those items if it cost me sixty dollars more to have them.
B:	Oh, yeah.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Think about what you can buy for sixty dollars.
A:	Exactly
A:	Groceries for a week.
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah.
A:	Yeah.
B:	I, I think about all, all the money that, that we've spent on interest on all of our credit cards,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and it's just incredible.
A:	But now did you use to not feel so badly because you could take it off your income tax?
B:	We've never been able to take it off our income tax.
B:	I'm, I'm fairly newly married.
B:	I've only been married less than two years
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and before that, I never owned a home or anything,
B:	so I never had any deductions.
A:	Right,
A:	right.
B:	So, really, it was always just money thrown away.
A:	Thrown away.
A:	Yeah,
A:	jeez.
B:	And I never really thought about it because,
A:	You were good at it
B:	Yeah,
B:	I was so good at it that it just kind of got stuck in the back of my mind and just never um, became a real problem until all of a sudden it came an insurmountable problem.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
A:	I suspect that, you know, thinking about it and looking at my friends and the number of credit cards that they use and, you know, the amount that I know they buy, I guess probably a lot of them are in a similar situation, and, you know, just don't talk about it.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Most, most people don't like to talk about money.
B:	They feel uncomfortable, I think.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh,
B:	You know, for a lot of people it is very personal.
A:	very personal.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	yeah,
A:	and especially if you, if you don't feel you're handling it quite right or that somebody might make fun of you or that it would be,
B:	Yeah.
B:	But I think the, the average American is probably pretty heavily in debt. Not, not including like a mortgage.
B:	A mortgage is an understandable debt because that's, you have, you have to have a roof over your head.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Right.
B:	And I would much rather own my own home than, than be renting it like we're doing.
B:	I mean, we're basically, you know, kind of throwing seven hundred dollars a month away.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	We're renting a house.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But, you know, right now with the way our credit card situation is, there's nobody in the world that's going to give us a mortgage on a house.
A:	Right,
A:	right.
A:	But, but, once I suppose you, you prove yourself by paying this off next year you'll be in very good shape.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
B:	It's, it's going to, it's going to take quite a while.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Hopefully within five years we'll be in our own home.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But, um, I'm not really counting on it real soon.
A:	Okay
A:	You want to get a start?
B:	Certainly.
B:	Uh, the weather here is warm.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And it has been sort of raining on and off.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, uh, I am an avid gardener
B:	so I measure the rain in our rain gauge on a, on a regular basis.
B:	So I can, can avoid wasting money on watering.
A:	Oh, great,
A:	great.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, uh, but it has been threatening to rain for the last couple of days,
B:	and it has not, really. Which is a bit of a disappointment.
B:	But it is very warm here, which is typical for this part of the, time of the year.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
B:	How about
A:	I think you are, I think you are earlier than we are, as a rule, aren't you?
A:	Your, your, your growing Summer starts a lot earlier than ours.
B:	It starts in, uh, March as a rule.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	See that is quite a bit,
A:	we are just beginning.
A:	People are, have got their gardens in, a lot of them now.
A:	We could still have a frost.
B:	Really,
B:	this late?
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Could you have snow?
A:	Uh, probably not.
A:	But we have had, we have had a frost as late as, as in June.
B:	Oh, well, we do not have that problem
A:	Early June.
A:	So, but we have also had nice weather. An unusually, uh, nice Spring.
A:	It is almost like an early Summer for us.
B:	Oh, that is nice.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	We could use a little more rain, I believe.
B:	Uh, well, we will be glad, I will be glad to give you some of ours
A:	Uh
B:	Usually we get it in, in great quantities in April and May.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And then it stops for three months.
A:	Yeah.
A:	If it could just be spread out a little bit.
B:	Right.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
A:	It has really been nice here, uh,
A:	we are supposed to have some rain this weekend,
A:	but I don't know if we'll get it or not.
A:	A lot of times in our area the weather forecast has missed us.
A:	The, the weather they forecast for our area seems to go right past us and misses us. Just by, well not too many miles.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Are you in an agricultural area?
A:	Yes,
A:	uh-huh.
A:	We have,
B:	Well, I know the I know the weather is very important for people who make their living off of, off of the land.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
A:	We have quite a few farmers.
A:	We, we live out in the country.
A:	We are on a farm,
A:	but we are not a farming person
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh, we have a garden.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	But, uh, but we are not farmers.
B:	Huh.
B:	Well, you know there are some disadvantages to being down south.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And that is, it gets so hot that, you know, a lot of things die during the Summer from the heat.
A:	Oh, yeah.
A:	They get burnt off.
B:	They, they really do,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and you have to be very careful to make sure you keep everything watered.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Well, and that makes it bad too, because, uh, when more, with water being at a premium.
A:	I know our aunt in California,
A:	they, they have really been rationed on their water.
A:	And it makes it real hard to have a yard or, uh, or anything like that, a their garden, their farms.
A:	Their farmers, I guess, are hurting because of that also.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Well, my parents are now in San Diego,
B:	and, and they've got pebbles in their yard because they can't, almost nobody there has, has lawns.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Well, they are not allowed to water,
A:	so what do you do?
B:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Uh, it is very, it is very rough on them
B:	so,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Actually I think, I think it is pretty moderate here in Dallas.
B:	Because the, the Summers are extremely hot.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	But your humidity is different though than ours I think,
A:	and it makes a, a bit of a difference, too.
B:	Um, what is your humidity like?
A:	Oh, I don't know.
A:	I think our humidity is higher normally than what it is in Texas.
A:	I could be wrong.
B:	Uh, I do not know what, what it is percentage wise
B:	but I,
A:	I do not know for sure either.
A:	But it always seems well, it just felt different like when we were in Texas.
A:	It had a different feel to it.
B:	Yeah.
B:	It is, it is drier in Dallas than it is in Houston or San Antonio or even Austin, which is further south.
A:	Uh.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But it is not dry.
B:	And, and I have lived here for many years,
B:	and I think it has gotten more humid over the years.
B:	Where the water is coming from, I don't know.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Well, it could be.
A:	I know my brother's home has been flooded a couple of times, uh,
B:	Oh, does he live near the lake?
A:	Well, there is a lake not far
A:	but it is more run off from surrounding, you know, areas and that.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh.
A:	And, uh, he is just in an area where it is just low enough that it's, you know, it, it collects there.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, he has had a couple of inches in his house several times.
B:	That is, that is a problem, uh,
B:	they tell you when you are looking for a house or, or, or buying land to build on, to be very careful and check the drainage because, uh, it is, it is deceptive.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
A:	Because of that.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, uh, I know exactly what you mean.
A:	We are fortunate or, uh, we are on a, where we are we get flooded, it floods below us behind us.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	But we are, uh, we are high enough that our house itself we never, you know, have had any problem like that.
B:	Oh, well, that is fortunate.
A:	Yeah.
A:	It is an old farm house
A:	and, uh, we really like it here.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Well, I, I like it, I like it here.
B:	Uh, I, I grew up here.
B:	I have lived other places
B:	and, and, but I, I did grow up here
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and this is very much home for me.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And,
A:	It is nice down there.
A:	I, I, I liked it when we visited there.
B:	I hope you visited during the winter.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	One of my, one of my theories is that you always go to warm places during the winter
B:	and you go to cold, cool places, that, well, I go to cool places during the Summer if I can anyway.
A:	Right.
A:	Right.
A:	That is the best time to go.
A:	Yeah.
A:	and usually it has been when we have gone, it has been nice.
A:	It has been hot,
A:	but it is, it is hot to me in the wintertime down there.
B:	Oh, sure.
B:	I mean
A:	You know
A:	But it is nice,
A:	it is a, it is really a nice area.
B:	I, I had a friend from England visit once at Christmas,
B:	and we could not get her out of the what she called the English back garden. Because she wanted to go back with a sunburn.
A:	Oh, really?
A:	Oh.
B:	And she went back to the north of England with a sunburn
A:	Oh, good heavens
A:	Not me
A:	I avoid the sun
B:	Well, yeah,
B:	basically I do, too.
A:	Yeah,
A:	it takes me about four and a half hours to do, to mow our grass.
A:	And I try to cover up when I do the lawn
B:	Well, I, that, that is really healthier, frankly.
A:	Yeah,
A:	well, I have had a little, a couple of problems
A:	and, uh, I decided it is not worth it.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	That,
A:	I, I like to get tan in the Summer time because I think you look healthier.
A:	And, uh, we are just crazy
B:	But you, you know, it is interesting because you get out in that sun an awful lot.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, uh, she is five years younger than me,
B:	she is more wrinkled.
A:	Is that right?
B:	Yeah,
A:	It, it just makes your skin more leathery.
B:	and I think that is why.
A:	It, uh, it,
B:	Exactly.
A:	yeah.
A:	So,
B:	I think it burns off the,
B:	I don't know the, the, the theory, the scientific principle.
B:	But it burns something off, the natural oils or something like that.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Well, the elasticity of your skin, the collagen or whatever they call it.
A:	They say it destroys a lot of that.
B:	Yes.
A:	And you lose a lot of that.
A:	So, uh,
B:	Yes,
B:	uh, that sounds like a good, that sounds like the right theory.
A:	Yeah,
A:	but, uh, but we have really had nice,
A:	the weather,
A:	I can't complain.
A:	We have really had really good weather of late.
B:	Good.
A:	And when it has rained, it it's been a good soaking rain
A:	and, uh, it has just been a really nice Spring.
B:	Well, that is great.
B:	It has been, it has been very nice here too.
B:	And I hope it continues because my parents are coming to visit this evening
B:	and I want them to have nice weather for their visit instead of driving around in the rain.
A:	Oh.
A:	Oh, that is great.
A:	How long will they be there?
B:	Uh, probably four or five days.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Well, that is great.
A:	Well, I hope the weather stays real good for them. And, and, uh, that you have a good visit and everything.
B:	Well, thank you
B:	Thanks.
A:	And I hope your garden does good.
B:	Yeah.
B:	And the same to you.
A:	And, so. Okay.
A:	Well, it was really nice talking to you.
B:	A pleasure.
A:	And, uh, good luck in your, this venture.
A:	It is, uh, like I said,
A:	it has been real interesting.
A:	So I hope you enjoy it as much as I have been enjoying it
B:	I am sure I will.
B:	In, in fact, if I had not been preparing for this, the out of town visitors, I probably would have been making some phone calls in the last couple of days.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I forget to.
A:	The day goes by,
A:	and I forget to make a call usually.
B:	Well, I am glad you have broken the ice with me because now, I will, I will start doing it
A:	Great,
A:	great.
B:	Okay.
A:	Okay.
B:	Well, thanks, Jean.
A:	Uh. Bye-bye.
B:	Bye-bye.
A:	Okay,
A:	is, uh, that a sport you like to participate in?
B:	No.
B:	Actually I'm a spectator,
B:	and I'm a second hand spectator as a result of my first husband's, or my late husband's, interest in golf.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	My husband likes golf also,
A:	he's, uh, I guess he'd be a fanatic if he thought he could get away with it
A:	But he, he limits it pretty good.
A:	I, um, have tried to go out and play golf.
A:	He would love it if I would go out and play with him,
A:	but I stand there and swing and swing,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and I can't even hit the ball
B:	I can't even play miniature golf well.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I don't either
B:	Well, there are just some things that we're good at and other things that we're not,
B:	but I am very good at watching it on television.
A:	Right.
B:	And he was really, uh, enthusiastic about keeping up with the tournaments.
B:	He could tell me exactly what day and what time of year and where the tournaments were going to be held, and what the nature of the hole was and,
A:	Oh, so he's really into it.
B:	Oh, yeah,
B:	he was a good golfer.
A:	Wow.
B:	And as, and did some, you know, instructions at the country club for a while.
A:	Oh.
B:	But, uh, golf tended to be
B:	I am not really deeply involved in any, following any of the sports.
A:	Yeah.
B:	But golf was one that I developed a working knowledge of a lot of the golfers,
B:	and therefore I enjoyed following those particular players.
A:	Right,
A:	more because of their personalities than their sportsman
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Well part of it was the personality and their sportsmanship.
B:	Another part of it was I'd pick one out that was different than what my husband was rooting for
B:	so you know, the competitor,
B:	and I became involved in following his career.
A:	Right
B:	And, uh, I know that, that my husband,
B:	Tom Kite was his fair haired boy.
A:	Oh.
B:	And he thought he was spectacular.
B:	I said, Whoa.
B:	I'm not going to, I'm not going to stay interested in him.
B:	So I decided Andy Bean was good competition
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Any time they both played, why, he was just real excited when Tom was, you know, shown on the television,
B:	and I followed Andy Bean.
A:	Uh-huh
B:	We both followed Lee Trevino into the Seniors.
A:	Oh, he's interesting.
B:	He is.
A:	I like to watch him.
B:	He is a character not just a golfer,
A:	Yeah.
B:	but he's quite a character.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And there are some really, really wonderful people in the game of golf who do give wonderful role models.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah,
A:	I think you're right.
B:	And I think it's critical, it's critical to have a good role model in any field, any sports.
A:	Yeah.
A:	I like to watch those skins games.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Do you ever watch those where they just play for a certain you know,
A:	for each hole they win they get the money for it.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I think those are pretty exciting.
B:	Well, I myself, really have not seen a whole lot of point to the game of golf.
B:	You hit a little ball,
B:	you chase it,
B:	you go find it,
B:	and then you hit it again and lose it again.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	yeah.
B:	And I know the whole point is to get it in that little bitty hole,
B:	but seems to me like if they made the hole bigger it'd be easier.
A:	Oh really
A:	I sometimes wonder why men like it so much because they get so frustrated and mad at themselves when they don't do well.
B:	Oh, I know.
B:	Oh, yeah.
A:	My husband and his buddies are not very good.
A:	They play like maybe once a month or less
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	uh-huh.
A:	and so they all hit like in the low nineties,
A:	and they think they're having a really good game
B:	Oh, yeah.
A:	So.
B:	Well, my husband's average ran in the mid seventies
A:	Wow.
B:	so he wasn't bad.
A:	Yeah,
A:	that is good.
B:	He was pretty good,
B:	but as far as influencing young people, I think that that is, uh, that is one of the sports that you can carry into old age.
B:	You can't play football at fifty-five.
A:	Right.
B:	But it is a good healthy, wholesome lifestyle, uh,
B:	anything can be warped.
A:	Yeah.
B:	But I think that that is one of the sports that's a good healthy way to, to move into maturity safely.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Something to stay active at for a long time.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	uh-huh.
B:	That's right,
B:	that's right.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah.
B:	And a lot of seniors, a lot of elderly people don't even take up golf until they're, you know, in their later years.
A:	Yeah,
A:	and they can still get good at it.
B:	That's right,
B:	that's absolutely right.
B:	And it's something that,
A:	Well, maybe that's what I'll do when I have time later on,
B:	Yeah,
B:	when you're too old to do anything else go play golf,
A:	Yeah
B:	yeah
B:	But it's, it's also something that husband and wife can participate in
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	or, you can both enjoy the same sport and participate in separate circles.
A:	True.
B:	You know, you can go to the country club together.
B:	You can play with your friends,
B:	he can play with his friends,
B:	but you've both been out and exercised,
B:	and you have enjoyed the day.
A:	Right,
A:	yeah.
A:	Or my favorite,
A:	just ride around in the cart with him
B:	You bet,
B:	you get a lot of exercise that way.
A:	Go somewhere really nice, like Hawaii, and just look at the golf course.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	well, I'll tell you what, if if they're not real good golfers, sometimes it is not fun to ride around and listen to their exclamations all day long.
A:	Oh, yeah.
A:	But my husband's pretty tolerant,
A:	so he's not too bad to watch.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Oh, mine had a very short fuse.
B:	If he did something bad, he's liable to take that club and throw it as far as he can throw it.
A:	Oh, no,
A:	yeah.
B:	He's replaced almost as many clubs as he has balls.
A:	Gosh.
A:	Now my husband has a temper,
A:	but he doesn't seem to show it on the golf course.
A:	He's, because he'll talk about the other guys he plays with doing that and how immature he thought it was and stuff.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	uh-huh.
A:	So I guess he's real laid back about it.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	He, he'll come home though, and he'll shoot when he was shooting in the hundreds,
A:	and he'll tell me what a great day he had, and about this great shot he made and everything .
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	well I shot in the hundreds,
B:	but I made this one good one
A:	Yeah,
A:	this one, on this one hole
A:	Did you have to listen to long stories about, now on the seventeenth hole I hit it and went this way
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	those are, it's hard for me to, act nice about that when it goes on and on,
B:	Well, one thing that is a, is a drawback about it, I think, is the cost.
A:	Yes.
B:	Membership in the clubs is expensive,
B:	the equipment is very expensive,
B:	requires special shoes,
B:	requires special, you know, special equipment.
B:	There's so many,
A:	Right,
A:	and then they want to play another course that's not, they're not a member of
B:	That's right.
A:	and other fees.
B:	That's right,
B:	that's right.
A:	It really is high.
B:	It can get very expensive,
B:	and I can imagine what kind of costs are involved if you're going to try to go pro, because you spend hours and hours and hours practicing.
A:	Oh, yeah.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And they don't give those sessions away.
B:	And nor do they give, uh, instructions away.
A:	Right.
B:	As a matter of fact a friend of mine asked me if I thought I'd be interested in golf.
B:	I said I don't know,
B:	I'll have to try it and see.
B:	I've always watched it.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And he said, well, fine,
B:	he said, we'll just take you over to the course, he lives near Brookhaven we'll just take you over to the course and get you some lessons and let you see if you like it.
A:	Uh-huh
B:	If you do, then we can go golf together.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Oh, whoa,
B:	great,
B:	I get to walk all around a little green field all day.
B:	But those kinds of things happen, though,
B:	you, you get a little taste of it
B:	and you say, Hey, this is not bad.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And you really begin to develop an interest in it.
B:	But I am not an athlete at all.
A:	Me either.
B:	You know, I'm always the one that got hit by the bat in baseball, and, hung my fingernails in the net in volleyball.
B:	So I am not an athlete.
B:	Maybe golf is a forgiving sport.
B:	I don't know.
A:	Yeah
A:	at least you're just you're competing against yourself, I guess, more than everybody else out there.
B:	It doesn't appear to be
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	I really, I, I haven't really acquired an interest in it,
B:	but I'm open to try anything, you know.
A:	Yeah
A:	that's, kind of the way I feel.
B:	The one thing that is also detrimental as far I'm concerned, my skin is very fair
A:	Oh.
B:	so I'm going to have to golf in the evening
B:	or I'm going to have to golf at a time when the heat of the day does not cook me.
A:	Right.
B:	And I don't think the,
A:	Okay,
A:	have you participated in anything like that?
B:	Well a little bit,
B:	we mostly do our newspapers.
B:	We keep our newspapers, and stuff like that and we keep our newspapers and stuff like that
B:	and we take them to be recycled.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh, we, we have a pretty nice recycling center, uh, in our city now
A:	and we take the newspapers and plastic and glass up there.
A:	They're open like two days a week
A:	and you can just take it up there and drop it off.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	It's kind of fun.
A:	And everybody up there looks pleased with themselves when they're taking their stuff in like they're doing something good to, help the earth, I guess.
B:	Yeah.
B:	And a lot of people complain because it's really not convenient for them.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah
A:	my husband was complaining the other day
A:	because he said every time I turn around you're telling me some new rule about recycling
A:	like yesterday I was tell him, you have to, you're supposed to squeeze the plastic jugs before you take them up there.
B:	You're supposed to what.
A:	Every time he turns around I'm giving him some new rule, where you're supposed to squish up the, you know, like collapse the plastic jugs. Instead of taking them up there solid.
B:	But what are you supposed to do with them.
B:	Oh, okay.
A:	And I wish that our recycling center took paper bags.
A:	They won't take those.
A:	We like to put our, just put our newspapers in a paper bag, you know, and then carry them up there that way.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And we have to bring the paper bags back every time. Because they won't take them.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Do you, uh, take your papers somewhere
A:	or does someone pick them up?
B:	We, we usually collect a, you know, collect a quite a bit
B:	and then we take them, take them in.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	We, um, we don't take our cans up to that center, though,
A:	our aluminum cans, we like to take them to one of the places where they pay you for them.
B:	Yeah,
B:	we don't, we don't, um, use aluminum cans,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	so, we generally don't have those to do.
A:	Yeah,
A:	it takes us about a year to save up enough to be worth, you know, worth bothering to go in and do,
A:	but. Do you, um, have any ideas on anything that would make,
B:	You know, they, they charge you, you know,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And I know a lot of people it would, would solve the convenience problem if they had curbside pickup
B:	and some communities are trying to do that now.
B:	And I think that maybe if they only charged for the garbage that you did not sort and have set up for recycling,
A:	Right.
A:	Yeah
A:	that would be a good idea.
B:	That that might be a better way to do it.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And then people would, would know that it was going to cost them money to not sort their trash.
A:	Right.
A:	Yeah,
A:	that would be a real good motivation for people.
B:	You know, because then it would, then it would make monetary sense to them, you know, to say, hey, you know, if I just spend the time to, to sort this out where this stuff can be recycled then I don't have to pay for them hauling it off.
A:	Right.
A:	Yeah,
A:	my father was telling me about some program he read about where you buy your bags, like you buy your garbage bag from the city,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and you pay more than just what you would pay for an empty garbage bag
A:	but then you don't pay any monthly fee or anything,
B:	Oh, yeah
B:	that's about the same kind of thing.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah
A:	that would be a real good idea.
A:	I'm trying to think if there's anything else I could think of.
A:	They are talking about going to curbside pickup in our, in our city .
B:	Where do you live?
A:	Rowlett, Texas.
B:	Oh, okay.
A:	Do you know where that is?
B:	Yes.
A:	And I don't know if they decided to do, or not,
A:	but I think they said it was going to add like either a dollar or three dollars a month to your bill to have them do that.
A:	Although, I think a lot of those programs can operate at about a break even, break even point,  without charging people.
B:	It seems like they would be able to.
A:	Yeah
A:	I don't know, uh,
A:	I guess it just depends on how they manage it.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I don't know how much they get when they sell all that stuff.
A:	The center that they've got now where you take your stuff in I, I think that should be making some money. Since they just have to hire someone to man it a few hours a week.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And they sell, I guess they sell everything to some waste company that comes and gets it.
B:	Yeah.
A:	But I wish that, uh, more of the cans, you know, like the cans you buy vegetables and fruit and stuff like that in were recyclable.
A:	I don't,
A:	a lot of that's that recyclable steel
A:	and I don't know anybody that takes that.
B:	Yeah,
B:	that's true .
A:	my husband likes Pepsi
A:	and those cans are steel instead of aluminum,
A:	so we can't, can't ever recycle them.
A:	I think it's a good reason to quit buying it.
B:	Um, now I didn't know that,
B:	cause we just usually if we're going to, uh, buy sodas they're in the, the two liter bottles.
A:	Yeah,
A:	that's what we buy the most of, unless we're going on a trip or something where we want to, put the cans in a cooler
B:	Yeah.
A:	But, well that's all I can really think about for recycling.
B:	Okay.
A:	It was good talking to you.
B:	Okay.
A:	Uh, bye.
B:	All right,
B:	bye-bye. voice said what's that
B:	voice said, where were they
A:	There you go.
B:	What do you think invades your privacy? heavily
A:	Oh, well people that call on the phone all the time to try to sell you something. You know, that, that try to sell you the newspaper, and, uh, carpet cleaning, and, uh, what else, roof repair
A:	And enough,
A:	well I think it's a waste of paper, the people that always leave, uh, junk mail and, because, um, you just end up throwing it away most of the time.
A:	Probably eighty percent of the, the junk mail that you get is, is, um, something that you don't need.
A:	And the same way with those calls.
A:	What is it,
A:	oh M C I, M C I really does.
A:	Even when you tell them no, they keep calling back.
B:	M C I
B:	what's that?
A:	M C I
A:	it's the long distance telephone company.
B:	Oh, now see I, I really don't have much trouble with, I just say no thank you and hang up.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	well they they won't take a no for an answer here for some reason.
A:	They just keep calling back.
B:	I had a carpet service call up three times, all within in an hour,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but, I, uh, I do telemarketing,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	so, uh, I'm very polite
B:	and I just say no thank you, and say no thank you very politely
B:	and I hang up and, don't bother me after that.
A:	Uh
A:	Yeah.
B:	So I think the only thing that really bothers me is if when somebody contacts me
B:	and they try to get information out of me.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Like the Census Bureau, United States Census Bureau.
A:	Oh yeah.
B:	That bothered me.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I didn't feel they had a right to know how many bedrooms were in my house even.
A:	Right.
B:	That I think is my invasion privacy because it's the government
B:	and I don't understand what their need to know is.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And I think that is my biggest objection to anything as far as invading my privacy. If somebody wants personal information out of me,
B:	but telephone calls I figure, they don't bother me one way or the other.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh, I know when I do telemarketing, um, I'm a soft person,
B:	if, if someone says I am not interested I'll just say fine and back out.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And I make very good sales,
B:	but I'm not, uh, as I said, I'm not half as pushy as these people because, I don't really care.
B:	I mean, if, if they're not interested fine.
B:	You know that's it.
A:	You can't force them to be.
B:	Right.
A:	No.
B:	And I'm not pushing something down their throat that, uh, I don't think is a good item anyway.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	That I don't think I could do anyway.
B:	But I feel like, oh, movie stars, or
B:	sure, it's part of their, I guess they're portray being a movie star
B:	they get themselves in these rag sheets
B:	but, uh, I think they go too far.
A:	Oh, yeah
B:	I think that's invasion of privacy.
A:	because they follow them around twenty-four hours a day.
B:	Yeah
A:	And you know they do Ted Kennedy.
B:	Oh, yeah.
A:	Of course, he's breaking the law all the time,
A:	so it's a different story then.
A:	You know, but, but Ed McMahon, I mean, you know, who cares about Ed McMahon.
A:	He's probably hasn't done anything interesting in the last thirty years that they've been on the air, you know.
A:	And he has a chauffeur.
A:	Maybe he drinks
A:	but he never drives a car either, you know,
A:	it's not the same with Johnny Carson.
B:	No,
B:	I think my, seriously my classification of, of invasion of privacy is trying to get personal information, and putting it falsely out or just bombarding me for the answers.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Without your, and without your permission.
B:	Right.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	This to me is, is my invasion of privacy.
A:	Right.
B:	Anytime I can honestly say no, or, throw the paper away, or,
B:	but you can always write to, uh, oh I forgot the name of it and stop the junk mail.
B:	That I've done. Because I don't want junk mail anyway,
B:	so I wrote to them when it came on the air,
B:	it works by the way.
A:	Oh, good.
B:	But, uh, the telephone doesn't bother me because I leave it half the time, on, uh, you know, answering service anyway, unless I'm home,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	so I figure I can turn it off one way or the other,
B:	but I think that's the only bottom line thing that I dislike.
B:	Because it does,
B:	other than the U S Census, um,
B:	what was it.
B:	Oh the, the carpet place that called me three times,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	that I felt was invasion because it was the same carpet place, and called me three times.
B:	I mean one should be sufficient.
A:	That's right.
B:	But, if people don't use the telephone,
B:	it's like I don't know when the police has their project going
B:	and I don't know when the other ones have their project going and when they want to pick up down my street for things.
B:	That's the only way I know.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, uh, that's
A:	Well you have to have the telephone,
A:	but you can't, you know,
A:	and, and it's, sometimes it's hard to screen out all the calls that you don't want.
B:	Well see there's no way of knowing,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	that's, you know, that's the problem.
B:	Like the product I sell, uh, I sell mostly to older people which can't get it in a normal public situation.
B:	The only way we'd get to them is by telephone.
A:	Um.
B:	And, uh, most of them like it because the company I work for is nationwide, and, uh, reputable
B:	and they know that hey, we're backing it, one hundred percent.
A:	uh-huh.
B:	But, if we were denied the right to call people up, these people would never be able to get it.
B:	Because your normal companies that offer it, do not offer it in the amounts that we do
B:	and they'd never have it then, at that point.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Because we offer it in a very low, you know, quantity.
B:	So I mean, I, I don't know what to do as far as that's concerned.
B:	But it is nerve racking.
B:	I mean it is nerve racking to have the telephone,
B:	but at least, as I said, you can always say no thank you
A:	Right,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	I gather you get a lot of telephone calls.
A:	Sometimes,
A:	yeah,
A:	some days it just rings off the wall.
B:	Yes,
B:	yes,
B:	yes.
B:	In other words you own your own home.
A:	No,
A:	no.
B:	I think that's where they hit most of us.
B:	Like I own my own home.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And you just know about what time,
B:	like some days I hate staying home because the phone rings all the time,
B:	but, uh, I don't know,
B:	I haven't been able to figure that out.
B:	Something else to do about it.
B:	When they call up and want to say, well tell me this, this, this, this and I'll give you a free something or other, My answer is no thank you, I don't need it.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And they say, well don't you want to know what's free,
B:	and I no
B:	If I have to give them so much to answer the questions to get fifty rolls of film or something like that, they're taking something away from me
B:	and I don't like that.
A:	Right.
A:	Yeah
A:	even if, I guess it's for coupons, they, they have a survey they run
A:	and it, I guess it, one of them is supposed to be a smokers survey
A:	but the questions go a lot farther than having to do anything with smoking.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And they ask, you know, they start out
A:	and they ask you even, even to your income level.
A:	I think that's, you know,
A:	whether you buy a T V dinner or not, I don't think it has anything to do with,
A:	Are you ready to start?
B:	Yes.
A:	Okay
B:	Have you recently bought a new car Catherine?
A:	Well, I just found out that my car like an old was thirty months old,
A:	and it doesn't seem like it's that old.
B:	Oh.
A:	Seems like I just bought it.
B:	Oh, wow.
A:	It's an eighty-nine
A:	and I bought it, uh, in, uh, eighty-eight
A:	so, yeah.
B:	Well, I really, the last car we got was a, was a used car.
B:	I really don't prefer buying a new car.
B:	I like to let somebody else pay for that
A:	I know,
A:	I really will do that the next time, I buy it too.
B:	But, uh mine was a year old,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and we bought it for very functional purposes,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and that was we bought a station wagon.
B:	We wanted an economical car to operate,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but we wanted one that could carry a lot of equipment.
B:	So, we chose a Nissan Stanza wagon.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And I've never been sorry,
A:	Oh, that's wonderful.
B:	however the need for that kind of car has changed now,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Oh, okay.
B:	and, uh, while it is still good, and it's quite serviceable, and I'll drive it until it no longer is reliable.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Huh.
B:	And probably then some
B:	I'll spend a lot of time praying over it before I give it up.
A:	Sure.
B:	I think that I would like to,
B:	if you know, we all say, if I could have the car I always wanted I would either buy a Nissan Maxima, uh,
A:	Right.
B:	I'm sold on Nissans.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I a or, or foreign cars actually.
B:	Uh,
A:	But do you feel though, uh, craftsmanship is much superior to the American abilities?
B:	Uh,
A:	Is that how you,
A:	I have never,
B:	its reliability.
A:	Its
B:	Its reliability.
B:	And, uh, I, you know, I've read all the CONSUMER REPORTS and things,
B:	and they just run head and shoulders above the American made cars.
B:	If Ford was a head and the shoulders above it, I'd buy a Ford.
A:	Isn't that a shame.
B:	But I had, uh, had a Ford Escort that absolutely needed taps the day we got it.
A:	My word isn't that sorry.
A:	That's sorry.
B:	Uh, you know, I mean it was ready for the graveyard.
A:	My word.
B:	And I spent as much on that car in twelve months as I spent for the car.
A:	Oh, mercy.
B:	So,
A:	You,
B:	and that was just trying to hold us,
B:	getting out of that was a used car.
A:	Huh.
B:	And it was an older car,
A:	Huh.
B:	but, you know, Escort is supposed to have a great track record as far as sales.
A:	Huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But it's just, it just was not
B:	and you get stung a time or two,
A:	Sure.
B:	and you say, no thanks.
A:	No thanks.
A:	That's right.
B:	So, I just trusted the CONSUMER REPORTS and the auto, uh, reports
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	had my son who knows a lot about that, study them thoroughly,
B:	and he gave me four choices of cars to buy
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	An Escort definitely was not among them.
B:	In fact, there wasn't an American car in there.
A:	Wow.
B:	Uh, the Nissan came
B:	and, and we bought the Nissan for functional purposes not what the CONSUMER REPORTS said we should get.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But it served our needs.
B:	Uh, later on his reports, the reports that he studied showed that, uh, Nissan was head and shoulders above the rest in the in the class that we were looking for.
B:	And that, and I'd rather have a Maxima than a Cadillac.
B:	I really would.
B:	It's not necessarily prestige,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but it's comfort.
B:	Uh, there's a lot of features on there that are desirable if you're going to pay that kind of money for a car.
B:	Uh,
A:	Who makes that car?
B:	Nissan.
A:	I mean but where are they, where are they,
A:	what, what is their location,
A:	is it, uh, Asian
A:	or is it European
A:	or who,
B:	No.
B:	No,
B:	no.
B:	Nissan is Japanese.
A:	Oh, it is Japanese.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	uh-huh,
A:	Okay,
B:	uh-huh.
A:	I didn't know.
B:	Yeah.
B:	And, uh, if I couldn't have my luxury Maxima then I'd buy me a fancy little red C R X sports car
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Okay
B:	I mean, you know, every every one of us have two sides
A:	Yeah,
A:	I guess so
A:	that's true.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Now what about you,
B:	if you could have the car that you wanted what would you get
A:	If, if, if I had the car I wanted.
B:	and why?
A:	Gee.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Probably, um, uh, let's see, I like the looks of the Lincoln Town car
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	uh-huh.
B:	Yeah.
B:	See there,
A:	But I, I don't know the performance of it.
A:	That's a, Ford product,
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and, you know, I would get hung up by my boot straps if I if I ever mentioned the Ford product in my family.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	I tell you that's sad too because there one time Ford was the best, that was made.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah.
B:	Really was.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, uh, I, I really have not seen,
B:	now a lot of the American cars actually are, are, parts are produced in foreign countries and assembled here or vice versa.
A:	Can I put you on hold for one minute?
B:	Of course.
A:	Thank you.
A:	Well, that was one minute.
A:	They hung up.
B:	Okay
B:	Uh, at any rate do you have color preferences
B:	or what would be the features that you would be looking for?
A:	Um, well, the comfort of a large car that the security of a large car. Um, and the luxuries of a large car.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh, now color preferences,
A:	I think I would opt to go with a bronze. Which is probably closest to gold that you can get
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	uh-huh.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Oh, wow.
B:	We like the stuff that glitters
A:	Yeah.
B:	Good.
B:	There's nothing wrong with that.
B:	Actually I think probably if I were going to get if I were going to be practical, which doesn't mean I would be,  I would prefer white. Because, simply because it's more visible at night.
A:	Right,
A:	well, practical
A:	yes
A:	that's,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Right
A:	and it's cooler I believe, too, when you're driving in,
B:	And,
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Now the interior,
B:	okay,
B:	I don't care about the interior just as long as it's not black or red.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	But if I had the little red C R X , I guess the interior would have to be black leather
B:	and I'd have to live with that.
B:	And if I got the C R X it would have to have a real good sound system in it because I'd want that too.
A:	Oh.
B:	I'd just go back to my teenage years and just throw all my experience to the wind
A:	Um, can you, uh, hang on again
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Thanks
A:	I've got the phones for lunch hour.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	So.
A:	Just don't mind me if I bounce back and forth.
B:	That's okay.
A:	Um, so you like to listen to, uh, a lot of music,
A:	or do, is it talk shows.
B:	No,
B:	no,
B:	no.
B:	I generally would uh, prefer to listen to, uh, well, I listen to K C B I a lot
B:	but I will listen to the news and the, and the traffic and those things at work.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	But if I'm going to be traveling in that car for any period of time, I want some real good classical music.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I love classical music,
B:	and you just can't enjoy it unless you've got a good sound system to produce all the, all the characteristics of the instruments.
A:	All the,
A:	yeah.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	That's true.
B:	So I do love classical music
B:	or it or, or, uh, contemporary classical.
A:	Do you listen Do you listen to W R R?
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Huh.
B:	Sure do.
A:	Yeah.
B:	W R R and the Oasis are the two that I listen to, more than anything else.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And I do like them.
B:	And I'd like to have a compact disc player in the car.
B:	That would be,  something that I would really like.
A:	Those are nice, aren't they?
A:	Yes,
A:	those are nice.
B:	Those compact discs,  really are good for cars because they don't melt,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	they don't warp.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	You know, there's nothing in there that can wrap around the, the, uh, rollers or anything.
B:	It seems like a really good answer to portable music, that you can choose.
A:	Huh.
B:	Okay.
A:	Okay,
A:	I, I do a fair amount of cooking.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, and I love having guests to dinner.
A:	I probably do that about once a month.
A:	And, uh, I usually prepare something, depending upon the guests, you know,
A:	it, it, I like to prepare chicken, that seems to please everybody, pasta or a casserole.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	How about you?
B:	Yeah,
B:	those are things I like the most.
B:	I like fish and chicken the most.
A:	Um.
B:	And, uh, most of the cooking I do just comes out of a can.
A:	Uh.
B:	Unless it is, unless it is, I catch a fish and I prepare it.
B:	And then I just, uh, you know, I just broil it and put lemon on it.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Well, that's about the way I prepare most fish.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh, I made scallops the other night,
A:	that was unusual,
A:	and, uh, basically, uh, I found a recipe to make it in the microwave
A:	and you sprinkled, uh, you swished around a little melted butter and do, uh, oh I do not know, microwaved them for about nine minutes.
A:	No,
A:	no,
A:	four and a half to five minutes
A:	and you had to add sesame seeds and bread crumbs on top,
A:	very simple, but very nice.
A:	So, if you are looking for a French recipe, that was good.
B:	Sesame seeds and bread crumbs.
A:	Sesame seeds and bread crumbs.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, my husband liked it.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And, uh, no
A:	unfortunately scallops are one of the more expensive, uh, fish items.
B:	Right,
B:	uh-huh.
A:	But, you know, I, I look for them to go on sale at the grocery store
A:	Uh, one of the things I love to do, eat out.
A:	How about you?
B:	Oh, yeah,
B:	uh-huh.
A:	Do you have any particular places you like going?
B:	Oh, there's a restaurant called String Bean on Spring Valley and Central.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I like that,
B:	it's just, it's just home cooking.
A:	Yes.
A:	I have been there.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, it's kind of, kind of like Black Eye Pea,
A:	but I do not think it's a chain.
B:	Right,
B:	exactly,
B:	uh-huh,
B:	and that's, that's the other restaurant Black Eye Pea.
A:	Oh.
B:	So, I do not really like, uh, you know, uh, uh, chili places or, what is it, Judge Roy Bean's,
B:	or I do not like greasy places.
A:	Oh, yeah.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I, I do not feel like they are very healthy,
A:	and I always, feel like the home cooking places, are, are the healthiest meals.
B:	Yeah.
A:	You know, I tend to have chicken fried steak when I go, go to them.
B:	Right,
B:	and I, and I got, uh, chicken marinara the last two times.
A:	Oh, how was it?
B:	It was, uh, it was great.
A:	Um.
B:	Because that's, that's what I like,
B:	I do not like it, you know. I just like a baked, you know, a piece of chicken
B:	and then I get like green beans and mashed potatoes.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	You know.
A:	Yeah.
A:	I, I tend to, uh, I get teased by my family a lot, because, uh, I like experimenting on, on food
A:	and sometimes I go for fairly exotic things.
A:	And my father teases me about gourmet cooking. Which is not always true,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but and the thing about experimenting with cooking or anything else, is that some of the experiments fail.
B:	Yeah,
B:	that's true.
A:	Uh, the last time we had some, uh, friends over for dinner, I tried a dessert that sounded wonderful in the recipe
A:	and it was just a total bust.
A:	I was, sorry I did not have ice cream to fall back on.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
B:	My, uh, my brother tried to make, uh, a bunch of things, uh, way back.
B:	He tried to make bagels one time.
A:	Oh my that's ambitious.
B:	Yeah,
B:	and, uh, we took some
B:	and then we had, uh, German Shepherds at the time,
B:	and we took some and gave it to the dogs,
B:	and the dog never, you know, he treated it like a milk bone
B:	and he never did finish it.
A:	Um.
B:	He just barely made a dent in it.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Uh, and, uh, then he tried to made grapefruit citron one time.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	It's, uh, supposed to be candy.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And, uh, it, it did not turn out very well,
B:	it was, you know. It like made concentrated all the acid of the grapefruit into, uh, into a kind of a candy stick,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	so, uh.
A:	Huh, see I am not,
A:	that's interesting.
A:	One of the things I do not make is dessert.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, my husband accuses me of putting him through dessert depravation, because, uh, you know, we have ice cream, or something like that.
A:	And that's why when I took, did this experiment for the company we had about three weeks ago, it was just a total fiasco.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Huh.
A:	Uh, everything else was fine,
A:	but that was a fiasco.
B:	Well, you have to put eggs and everything, don't you.
B:	Or,
A:	Uh, yeah.
B:	Yeah,
B:	just about.
A:	Yeah.
A:	And I, I also don't have much of a sweet tooth,
A:	so I can live without, live without dessert for the most part.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Use about half the sugar,
B:	or make everything diet.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Uh, do you cook for yourself
A:	or do you cook for others?
B:	Mostly, I just cook for myself.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Well, when I was single, I used to, uh, I think my favorite meal was a, a baked potato.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And,
B:	It's easy,
B:	that's for sure.
A:	Oh, yeah.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Oh, yeah.
A:	And, I mean, I never put anything other than a little butter on it,
A:	if I had, or if I had a little cheddar cheese, sometimes I would grate that up.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I always put cheese on them.
A:	And, uh, it's amazingly satisfying.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah,
B:	but, you know, there's hardly any, I guess there's hardly any protein,
B:	it's mostly starch.
B:	So, it fills you up
B:	and then the cheese has to make up for whatever the protein you get.
A:	Yeah.
A:	I I did not say it was nourishing,
A:	but it was satisfying.
B:	Oh, yeah,
B:	it really is.
A:	And,
B:	Then you have to make a salad
B:	or,
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah
A:	but, you know, I never really enjoyed cooking for myself,
A:	so I ate very simply.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And I was, that's why, I think that's one reason I like having people over, because I could try things.
A:	I mean, I must be a frustrated chemist or something like that.
B:	Right.
A:	Cause cooking is a little bit like, like being in a chemistry lab.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh,
B:	Except you get to taste the product instead .
A:	Yes,
A:	and have an explosion.
B:	Fill them up
B:	or blow up.
A:	Sometimes it blows up anyway.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I, I once had a, an old boy friend over to, to dinner when I was recently staying with my parents.
A:	And, uh, I had this wonderful recipe
A:	and you were supposed to make a, a toffee like substance for a pie by, uh, boiling evaporated milk three hours,
A:	and it does turn to toffee inside the can.
B:	Oh, yeah
A:	And, uh, the only problem was, when I opened the can, it just flew all over the place.
A:	It was on the ceiling, on the walls and me.
A:	And, and the boy friend thought,
A:	it was, he was supposed to be there at six o'clock, not seven o'clock,
A:	so just at the time all this happened, the door bell rang
A:	and there he was.
A:	And I had to have my, my, my, my dad sort of entertain him for a, for for awhile while my mother and I scrambled to clean everything up.
B:	Right.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Did you let the can cool off?
A:	Uh, I really do not remember,
A:	that was about ten years ago,
A:	I just remember how embarrassing it was.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And I have made, I have made it since, I've, I, and several times before
A:	and I never had that problem,
A:	just that one time.
B:	Huh. Yeah.
A:	And, uh, he, he was a gourmet cook,
A:	he was kind of pushy too.
A:	Acted like, he came from San Francisco
A:	and he had a very sophisticated taste.
A:	I, I really wanted to impress the heck out of him
A:	and, and well, it was a memorable evening anyway.
B:	Right.
A:	Uh, as far as,
A:	I, I do enjoy cooking
A:	so, I was awfully glad I was given this,
A:	Are you ready?
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	She didn't announce that to you?
B:	Oh, I didn't, I didn't quite hear all of it.
A:	Oh, I see.
A:	That's fine.
A:	Um, I think, uh, that's pleasurable for all of us, if we choose the right restaurant
B:	Right
A:	So, what are your thoughts on dining out?
B:	Well, I, I really choose restaurants more for the quality of food than anything else.
A:	Not for the price?
B:	Well, a little bit for the price,
A:	Okay.
B:	but, uh, I think that as far as quality of food goes the some of the most expensive places I've been had the the, really the, the worst quality of food.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	The
A:	Really?
A:	Okay.
B:	Really.
B:	Um, a lot of places that even don't look, don't look like much.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Some of the, some of the best food I have ever had was out of a, outside or inside of a place that we drove up
B:	and I was like, I'm not eating in there
B:	And, uh, we went in
B:	and it was the it was the most wonderful food.
A:	My word,
A:	it's like mama in the back kitchen, huh?
B:	Yeah.
A:	Oh.
B:	I'm serious.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Um, a lot of, uh, one place that we went just recently uh, was to Atchafalaya.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	No,
B:	that's not right.
B:	That's not right.
B:	That's not right.
A:	Okay.
B:	someone in the What's the name of that restaurant?
B:	in the background Where at? .
B:	someone in the background The Hari Krishna.
B:	in the background relies Oh. Kalachandji's .
B:	Kalachandji's.
B:	It's all vegetarian,
B:	and it, it was just fabulous.
B:	I mean, my husband was aghast because I ate turnip greens and liked it.
A:	Wow.
A:	And where was that at, near your,
B:	Um, Kalachandji's.
B:	It's, uh, it's a Hari Krishna run restaurant.
A:	Where,
A:	is it in Dallas?
B:	Yes.
A:	Is it in the phone book?
B:	Uh, I think so.
B:	It should be.
A:	Do you know how to spell it?
B:	Uh, it starts with a K.
A:	Okay.
B:	So K A L A, I think, C H A N D.
A:	Kalli , K A L L I?
A:	Okay.
B:	That should get you close enough to, to be able to find it.
B:	I think it's, uh, probably listed in the restaurants, you know.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	section,
A:	yes,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	But it's, uh, it's just fabulous food.
A:	What about fast foods?
A:	Do you have a preference if you were going to, eat a fast food?
B:	Well, we like Arby's. As far as, fast food goes.
A:	You do, like Arby's?
A:	See I don't like Arby's.
B:	Oh, really?
B:	Why?
A:	No,
A:	because they use everything they can and make this into pressed whatever.
A:	They use the, they use the insides of the animals, heart and liver
A:	and they, they form it,
A:	and they make it look like roast beef,
A:	and I said, no,
A:	thank you.
B:	Oh, no,
B:	no,
B:	no.
B:	Someone has been lying to you.
B:	What they use is roast beef.
A:	Well, that's not what I heard, from one of, somebody that was supposed to know what they were talking about.
B:	That's what,
B:	Oh, my goodness.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I'm surprised.
B:	My dad worked for Arby's for several years.
A:	Really?
B:	Yeah.
A:	Unless somebody is trying to blackball them.
B:	Well, that's happened before.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But we like good uh, we're, we like Mexican food.
A:	Okay.
B:	And stuff like that.
B:	And so, um,
A:	How about the health food, uh, restaurants? Well, like this one
A:	but it's probably not advertised as such, is it?
A:	Or,
B:	A health food?
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Health food, uh, restaurants that,
B:	Like, like,
B:	name one
A:	Well well, like, um, well, I can't really think of any off the top of my head right now because there's so few and far between.
B:	I'm not sure what you're talking about.
A:	But they ought, there are restaurants that cater to the people that are very health conscious. You know, as far as their cholesterol levels and their, their fat content and, you know, the amount of calcium and so forth that are in each product
A:	and they list them.
A:	Now there's one restaurant that does that
A:	and it's called Rodolfo's
A:	over on Preston Road and Royal Lane I believe.
B:	Huh.
A:	And they have very good food over there.
B:	I don't guess I've ever been to anything like that
B:	so, I really don't have anything to compare it to.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	It would be good I think,
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	uh, I don't know how expensive they are.
B:	It sounds like that it would probably,
A:	Well, it was pretty reasonable.
A:	I, it was around ten dollars for lunch. Okay,
A:	which is kind of high for lunch I guess.
B:	For one person?
A:	Yes.
B:	Oh
A:	Yes,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	A bit
A:	Yeah.
A:	Uh, but, um, you were served by maitre d's and, and, uh, um, men waiters.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I, I won't really be interested in going to, in going there. Because, I feel like I'm, I'm paying, you know, five dollars for the food probably and five dollars for something that I could get along quite well without
A:	Well, if you're looking for a nice,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Well, I guess if you were having, if you were trying to impress somebody like taking somebody that you hadn't seen for a long time and wanted to show them a good restaurant. It's a special occasion, type thing.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Maybe, maybe that.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
B:	I could see that, then maybe.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	And now the Red Lobster I found is very nice at lunchtime.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I like the, the seafood that they, when they had it, you know, the broiled,
A:	Because they're,
A:	Well, they have lunch specials that
A:	you can't, you can't beat that price, uh, if you went to a cafeteria.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Probably that's true.
B:	But I know a lot of their, a lot of their specials sometimes are fried things, that you can't really get away from the fried,
A:	Well, I had the, I had a broiled chicken breast
A:	and it was excellent.
A:	It was a marinated, broiled chicken breast
A:	and it was
B:	Now why would you go to a seafood restaurant to eat chicken?
A:	Oh, it was,
B:	That's one of my husband's pet peeves.
B:	He doesn't understand why somebody would go to a seafood place and eat either chicken or steak, you know.
A:	Well, I've never had catfish either in a restaurant because I'm from the north
A:	and that was a no no.
B:	Oh, really?
A:	And I haven't gotten over that from the north.
B:	Oh, catfish is wonderful.
A:	I know they say that, that is,
B:	Oh, really.
A:	but I'm, but they've got all these caution signs now on fish
B:	Really.
A:	and so I kind of stay
B:	Why?
A:	Because of all the pollution in the lakes and the, everywhere. I mean there isn't any safe haven anymore for fish.
B:	Oh.
B:	Huh.
A:	and especially, uh, in Wisconsin and Michigan they say, no, buying of our fish.
B:	That's too bad, because I'm probably not going to stop eating it
A:	I,
A:	Well, yeah.
A:	So I am,
A:	and the, the best brand of chicken to buy is the, uh, Pilgrim Pride because they don't use all these hormones to remote , uh, unnatural growth in their products.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah.
A:	So I mean, we have to be on the lookout if we want to stay healthy.
B:	That's true.
A:	So I'm, I, you know, I,
B:	Oh, on one hand I see that
B:	and on the other hand, uh, my older sister remembers when, uh, at one point they were taking radioactive wastes and storing them in tin barrels which I guess, had a half-life of, oh, five years if they sit empty on dry land.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Corrode.
A:	Huh.
B:	So they're putting radioactive waste in it which reduces it dramatically.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And then they take these things that will rust
B:	and they throw them in the ocean which is going to speedup the process even more.
A:	Well, I'd like to get ahold of some engineers and knock their heads together if it would do any good.
B:	Oh.
B:	And then they wouldn't think.
B:	They were floating around
B:	so they shot holes in them to sink them.
A:	Oh, dear.
B:	And this is before I was born.
A:	Wow.
B:	So, I mean we're taking thirty years ago, this happened,
A:	Sure.
A:	Yeah.
B:	and, and who's, you know, the tuna is radioactive to a certain extent.
A:	That's right.
A:	Everything we eat.
A:	Everything, everything we eat should have a label on it
B:	You can't get away from it
B:	so I think, To some point,
A:	Yeah.
B:	yeah,
B:	you know. So there's, you know, there's some things I think we can we, you know we can't avoid for health purposes and some things that we just need to like, you know,
B:	this is not in my control.
A:	Well, you know,
B:	or I'm going to get over it and just go ahead and eat as healthily as I possibly can, you know.
A:	Well, Becky, you know, even if you lived off your own land, that you would have to put caution signs,
A:	Do you use credit cards a good bit?
B:	I do,
B:	and I wish I didn't
A:	Uh.
B:	Before I got married, uh, about the only credit cards I used were gas cards, because I didn't like carrying, you know  the cash with me all the time,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but I just never wanted to get into the hang-up of using credit cards and having all those bills hanging over my head.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	In fact, I remember getting my first MasterCard,
B:	and the only reason I got it was, you know, there was a while years ago when you couldn't cash a check without like a MasterCard or VISA.
A:	Okay.
A:	Absolutely.
A:	Right.
B:	And so that's why I went ahead and got one.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	It was a mistake
A:	Yeah.
A:	Well, actually, I, I have a whole wallet full of credit cards.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I don't use them very often.
A:	Um, oh, I may use, I try to use at least one gasoline credit card a week, and try to use a different one, so that, you know, I have, keep those active.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I have a half a dozen department store credit cards,
A:	and I, I'll use those if I need to run in and buy a dozen pair hose right quick or something like that,
B:	Yeah.
A:	just enough to keep them active.
A:	My biggies are the VISA, MasterCard and Discover.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And for the most part, I had used those for like, uh, charging airline tickets, where I can pay for those, you know, you could make the transaction over the telephone,
B:	Yeah.
A:	or I fly Southwest a good little bit, which means I can just run that card through the machine.
B:	That's right.
A:	Uh, and it saves a lot time.
A:	And that's what I was using it for.
A:	However, we had a, had a, a very pressing financial family crisis, which said you have no alternative,
A:	you must have the money to do this with,
A:	and you do not have any other options
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	so I charged all three of those cards up,
A:	and right now I am paying and praying.
B:	I know how that goes
A:	But, uh,
B:	and that's exactly what we've, I mean I have to say I have been thankful for them, because there were times when it was just like that when we had to have the money
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	we had no way around it
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and the only way to do it is go get, you know, an advance on a card
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh
B:	and so like you were paying for it,
B:	but it's one of those I'm glad it was there.
A:	Well, I never did, Right.
A:	I never did use it for an advance.
A:	Most of my charges were, uh, medications.
B:	Oh, I see.
A:	Didn't have cash for the medications
A:	or it was, uh, the doctor would accept MasterCard or VISA.
B:	Oh.
A:	And, uh, a lot of times you can get by using those for, uh, uh,
A:	different labs will use those charge accounts for,
B:	What,
B:	Do you find now, though, that even some doctors won't?
B:	I've found some doctors that say, you know,
B:	I was so used to doctors or medical care places taking credit cards,
B:	and so many of them don't anymore.
A:	Uh-huh
B:	So,
A:	Well, I have not,
A:	like I said, that was just one period in my life where that was critical.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I don't generally charge.
A:	I say well, I need a checkup in six months,
A:	and I kind of set that aside and just pay for it.
B:	Right.
A:	I'm reimbursed on insurance anyway,
A:	and I can handle, you know, paying for it and waiting two or three weeks.
B:	Right.
A:	Getting into a credit card fiasco is easy.
B:	Oh, it is
A:	It is easy,
A:	and it's very difficult to get out.
A:	I just cringe every month when I see those interest charges.
B:	I know.
A:	I say wow,
A:	I, I ought to go to the credit union and borrow the money and pay this off.
A:	Big deal,
A:	I'm saving two percent.
B:	Right.
B:	But, you know, the interest, even though it bothered me, it didn't used to bother me so much, because, of course, you could list it on a Schedule A
B:	and you got all your interest, you know towards your tax deductions,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and now they've messed that up to where it really is a financial burden to have to pay it.
A:	Right.
B:	And but it, but it is easy to get into a credit card problem,
B:	and I, I think about young people that think, you know,
B:	there's kind of that feeling of hey, it's so neat,
B:	I have my first credit card
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, and they just don't understand that you still have to be able to make the payments.
A:	Oh, yeah,
A:	and it's not just paying back what you've charged,
B:	You know.
A:	it's paying that and half again.
B:	That's right.
B:	That's right.
A:	Uh, you send in, uh, uh, fifty dollars,
A:	you're going to pay twenty, twenty-five in interest charges.
B:	That's right.
A:	You only get half of that paid for the principal,
A:	so I'm looking at three or four years before my balances are cleared on those charge accounts.
B:	Right.
A:	Now, as the monthly payment, uh, I mean as the monthly payment amount goes down, that will free up more cash where I can continue to make the larger payments.
B:	Right.
A:	Uh, as long as I don't have a major disaster where I have to use it again, I can, I can do that.
B:	Right.
A:	Meantime, though, I'm not building any reserves.
B:	No,
B:	and that's frightening to me.
A:	Anything that I could be put aside into savings is going for interest on those cards.
B:	That's right.
B:	That's frightening, too.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh, I, I just, I, my husband is in business for himself
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I work for T I
B:	but he doesn't
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, uh, we're, uh, I, I've kind of got my fingers crossed.
B:	I've learned when you're in business for yourself, that, that you don't count on something until it's happened you know,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but he's got some, you know, it's those once in a lifetime cases,
B:	and after ten years he's got two of them
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and they should pay through next month,
B:	and, and we're both just looking at each other every night going man, that will pay off like both of our MasterCards, you know.
A:	Oh, right,
A:	right.
B:	And, you know, just in one lump,
B:	because that's the only way you can do it, is to have a big chunk of money
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	or it's like you say,
B:	you pay forever.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	And so I'm really looking forward to that.
A:	Well, you either need a big chunk of money
A:	or you need a large reserve so that if you do charge on that account, you can make a single lump sum payment.
B:	That's right.
A:	Now, those are very handy
B:	Right.
A:	if you have the reserves and you can make lump sum payments, sharp, good no problem
B:	Sure,
B:	yeah.
B:	I agree.
A:	because you're living on the other guy's money for a while.
B:	That's right
A:	But I can promise you that those credit card companies are going to ride high on my money
B:	I know
B:	and,
A:	And it just irks me.
A:	I say my gosh, I had to work three hours just to pay the interest on this,
A:	and I've got three cards.
A:	I've lost a whole day of my life to interest.
B:	I know.
B:	You're like what am I working for today
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah.
A:	And that just blows my mind.
A:	I, my house is paid for,
A:	my car is paid for,
A:	I've got some home improvements,
A:	but even the payment on that doesn't equal the payment on one of those credit cards.
B:	It's incredible.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Boy, I wish I could say that my house and,
B:	well, my car is paid for now.
B:	It was wrecked three weeks ago,
B:	but, but you see again the credit cards came in handy.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I had to have the money to pay rental car, pay this, pay that till the insurance company pays back.
A:	That's right.
A:	I think that is a good, healthy, safe use of credit cards.
B:	And, uh,
B:	Yeah.
B:	Because you know that's coming back to pay it off.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
A:	Uh, I went to a seminar,
A:	they said don't ever use your credit card for consumable items.
A:	You only use credit cards for investments.
B:	Right.
A:	I said for crying out loud, if I had the money to you know, if I could do some investing, you'd have to invest at better than twenty percent earnings in order to pay for the payments on the credit card.
B:	It's,
B:	Sure.
B:	That's right.
A:	That doesn't make a bit of sense to me.
A:	I thought God dang, where is his pencil?
B:	That's right.
B:	Well, the smart half was don't pay it for consumables,
B:	don't, you know, if you can't afford to go to a restaurant and eat out and pay cash, don't put it on a credit card you know,
A:	That's right.
B:	and, and so that, that is the smart half.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But, uh, and I can remember before we had kids, we did that a lot,
B:	but it was no biggie you know, because we could pay it off,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	while after kids, and you're paying child care and other things, all of a sudden it's not so easy to pay off,
B:	so we cut that out real quick
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	And, uh, but I, I do like having them there.
B:	There is a bit of security in having the credit cards and knowing that in times of crisis, they are there to use
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but you have to have a very good sense of saving, and or common sense not, not to get yourself in trouble.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh
A:	You also have to have that willingness to commit to that because you're committing a good portion of your life and income when you do it.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Well, well, Pat, did you vote in the last election?
B:	Most assuredly.
A:	Oh, you did?
B:	Yes ma'am.
B:	I've voted in every major election since I turned twenty-one.
A:	Oh, that's great.
A:	Well, why do you think,  people don't.
B:	Don't always  vote for somebody.
B:	I sometimes vote against somebody
A:	That makes sense too.
B:	I think that a lot of it is, uh,
B:	I know that my late husband was simply indifferent.
B:	He didn't feel like he had any say.
B:	There was too many people, too many other votes.
B:	For example, you know, he'd say, Well, look, you and I see different sides of the fence.
B:	If I go vote you'll cancel my vote.
B:	I said, I sure will.
A:	And,
B:	He said, So, I just won't vote.
B:	I said, Then mine counts, because you could cancel mine too.
A:	Then does,
A:	Yeah,
A:	I think, I think, that's a lot of people,
A:	just indifferent
A:	I know that I've moved around a lot.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	In the past, um, three years I've had three different addresses.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Each time I change jurisdictions or whatever.
B:	Sure.
A:	So I just haven't,
A:	because, I mean, graduate school or whatever,
A:	so I haven't kept track of it.
A:	I did, when I lived steadily in one community, I always, I voted.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	But this past time I didn't.
A:	Well, actually I voted it for the presidential election,
A:	but then I didn't vote uh, I guess, in the two year for, uh, some legislators and things
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and,
B:	Well characteristically, in some, in the local elections typically those people who vote are those who feel very strongly about an issue.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Right,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	If I do not feel very strongly about an issue, then I see no reason to go vote.
A:	Right,
A:	yeah,
A:	and that's probably one reason why I voted in the the last election, but not really this one
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	because this one really didn't matter that much.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah,
A:	it's probably true.
B:	Well, of course, of course listening to government, the instructors, you'll find out that everything matters,
B:	but then you could go crazy worrying about everything.
A:	Well, you know, they also say that most people vote their local politics, that, that local is far, much more important than, uh, national issues.
B:	Well that's the way you get to national
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and that's the way you make changes about your neighborhood,
A:	Right.
A:	Oh, I definitely think so.
B:	Uh, I know that I have been involved in preparing and in, in, uh, carrying out a lot of the local petitions that take place.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Even something so simple as getting a street light in between lights on the end of the block.
A:	Right.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But it makes a big difference when it's the difference in having a child run over in the dark.
A:	Yeah,
A:	that's true.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And, uh, it took a close call to wake us up and cause us to take that kind of action,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and that's completely unnecessary.
B:	In another particular case they were trying to put in a, um, senior citizen's home in, in an area very near our neighborhood,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but if you just cross that major street, the character of the neighborhood changes,
B:	and it's less savory.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Okay.
B:	And that, I was just very, I felt very strongly about that,
B:	those people simply did not have access to safety, to security
B:	and they were at risk.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And it was for elderly people who lived alone,
B:	and they were going to put a cluster of, of houses there for them.
B:	But even clustering together for the elderly does not ensure safety.
A:	No,
A:	most now,
A:	that's true,
B:	And all it, all it did was to, in my judgment, make them, easier targets
A:	Prepare them to be, victims,
A:	yes.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	yeah,
B:	easier targets,
B:	and so we, we did get a petition together
B:	and we very strongly resisted it,
B:	and it was placed in a actually, it was placed clear, closer to my neighborhood
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but it was on the,  right side of the street.
A:	Right side,  of the tracks,
A:	yeah.
B:	And, uh, it, it, I think that they're, they're much more comfortable there.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Did they,
B:	Uh, I haven't seen too much crime in my neighborhood,
B:	although we have a good crime watch program
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but it's, it's very serious just across the street.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Did, um, did you think,
A:	I know that Texas's last gubernatorial, uh, election probably brought out a lot of voters.
B:	Well.
A:	Did that, did that seem to,
A:	because that that got national attention, national attention, I guess, having a woman governor running against a man and whatever.
B:	Well.
B:	No,
B:	I think it had to do with dirt running against dirtier.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And that's it
A:	Yeah.
B:	it was a dirty election.
B:	it was a, it was a dirty campaign.
B:	It was a dirty, mud slinging campaign.
A:	Well, you know, what's funny, up here, uh, I live, I see a lot of Virginia news
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and I guess, uh, Senator Robb and Governor Wilder are active right here,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and they have some type of wire tapping problem going on,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and the people in Virginia are complaining,
A:	see Robb is married to Lynda Bird Johnson
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and the people in Virginia are complaining that he is, he's using Texas politics in Virginia
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and they're really complaining big time,
A:	because they said that We don't have that type of trashy politics up here like they do in Texas all the time.
B:	Well,  of course, now, that's not all the time.
A:	So you, you guys were getting  yeah,
B:	We've had some pretty We were having some pretty healthy uh, campaigns that were based on issues there for two or three of the gubernatorial races
A:	you were getting slandered, I think,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but, I, historically, Texas has had mud and muddier campaigns
A:	Yeah.
B:	I mean, it's just, I think that eventually, you know, the better people have sensibilities
B:	and they vote on those people who are least likely to do damage.
B:	Unfortunately, that's not always the way it should be.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	You don't want to vote for the person who is least likely to do damage.
B:	You want to do the one who can do the most good.
A:	Do the most good,
A:	yeah,
A:	that's true.
B:	And, uh,
A:	I guess that's why,
A:	I know that, um, I'm previously from Pennsylvania
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and Dick Thornburg who's now the attorney general is going to run for senator because, uh, John Heinz, a senator from Pennsylvania, died in an airplane crash
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and I know that they're expecting a gigantic turn out to landslide Dick Thornburg into, as, into the senate because they don't like the the governor's political appointee, or whatever
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and they're almost expecting landslide out, uh, turn out, right now for for that election.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Okay,
B:	so you So, you see,
B:	that's very negative motivation isn't it
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
B:	isn't that too bad.
B:	We really could use a little positive motivation
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	hey, we think this guy can really make some changes
B:	and we're going to support him.
A:	Yeah.
B:	That was true in a lot of cases in, in a couple of the older sixties campaigns.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh.
A:	What,
A:	in Texas,
A:	was that when, you,
B:	No,
B:	I'm talking about national campaigns.
A:	That's, that's true.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Uh, even when John Kennedy was elected, there were so many strikes against him,
B:	but there were people who believed he could make a difference.
A:	Right.
B:	Now, that's not to say what has transpired or what really was,
B:	I'm saying that's how it was perceived.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	that's, right,
A:	that's perception,
A:	that's true.
B:	And, uh,
A:	Because the, those were big political, that was a big, um, turn out election.
B:	Oh, yeah.
B:	Absolutely.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, and it was people going to vote for, I think, more than those who voted against.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I know, I know that in my own, uh, area of people, whom I knew and how they were going to vote, they didn't go to vote against, uh, a politician as they did a little bit later when Nixon was running.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	They went to vote against the less of, lesser of the two evils in certain cases.
A:	Yeah.
B:	But I think that one was one that you had some very strong feelings among people,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and they voted their convictions.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Well, I think that also happened with Ronald Reagan.
B:	Absolutely.
A:	He was he was landslided in
B:	You're right.
A:	and people really saw that was,
A:	There we go.
A:	Uh, so, uh, what do you consider the most important benefit besides salary?
B:	Boy, I, I don't know.
B:	That's a, that's a, a tough one.
B:	Uh, uh, and it's, uh, I suppose it's, it's changes as, uh, as my perception changes of, of what, uh, I'm getting gypped on
B:	and
A:	That week,
A:	right.
B:	this week or this month, uh, uh, uh, we're just, uh, going through, uh, uh, well, there's a couple of changes to the, to the, uh, our health plan
B:	and, uh, and I guess right now the one in my mind is health insurance
B:	but, uh, If I step back I'm not sure I'd, I'd, uh, say that.
A:	Um.
B:	What, what about you?
A:	Well, uh, I, right now I'm in sort of a weird situation.
A:	I'm a graduate student that, uh
B:	Oh, okay.
A:	I don't have that many benefits per se
B:	Yes,
B:	okay,
A:	Uh, sort of get,
B:	But, but, on the other hand, one of these days you'll be out looking for a,
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah.
A:	My wife has a real job
A:	and I can see from her angle.
A:	Uh, uh, I think health insurance is real, real important. I've, I've, I've, I've discovered.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I mean, even in my case it's sort of, they're really, uh, a pain in the neck about it up here
A:	because the university makes me buy a small,
A:	they, they have a mandatory, they have what they call the mandatory portion of their health insurance
B:	Yeah.
A:	they offer insurance to everyone,
A:	but then the basics that are major medical, they, they force you to buy here.
A:	Now I'm covered by my wife's anyway,
A:	but I still pay them a hundred dollars a semester for, uh, mandatory.
B:	Right,
B:	okay.
A:	So that's sort of annoying that I'm paying for something I'm not getting in that case.
A:	I'd rather that, that went to something else.
B:	And, and, yeah,
B:	and the benefits you're getting for that hundred dollars a semester, uh, you, you never use because you just use your wife's.
A:	Right.
A:	I mean, uh,
A:	and, and, and it turns out that actually, uh, the benefits they, you know, that, that hundred dollars sort of would, would entitle me to go to the university health services here, you know, and, and use them
A:	and it turns out that I do think they're they're excellent physicians there.
A:	So, through my wife's H M O, we've registered for them as our primary care physicians
A:	so we go there anyway,
A:	so they're, they're, so if they were to bill, which, which I believe they don't,
A:	but if they were to bill the H M O for my business, they could, in, in theory, be getting paid twice for the same thing.
A:	But they're not, thank God.
A:	Uh, but anyway, uh, otherwise, I would imagine, uh, good vacation is, is important, although I don't know if that's really a deciding factor for many people on a job.
A:	I don't, you know,
B:	Uh, yeah,
B:	I, it, uh, the, the, that, that's a, a negative about, uh, where, where I am in that, uh, well, I came out of, uh, I worked five years civil service
B:	and there it's, uh, if I remember right, you well, they, they accumulate it as hours per week or something like that and, or hours per pay period or something,
B:	but, anyway it works out as I remember basically to, uh,
B:	you start at, at, uh, two and a half weeks or something like that,
B:	and it, at three years, uh, it goes to four weeks I believe,
B:	and I, I'm coming up on, I've been at T I now, uh, uh, coming up on fifteen years
B:	and it, and it just, uh, this year is going to go to four weeks here
B:	so,
A:	Oh, wow.
B:	Uh, uh,
A:	So that's really,
B:	Yeah,
B:	that's a, that, that is a, a, a negative, but, uh, but, not, probably not at, probably not a deciding factor,
B:	but, uh,
A:	Yeah.
A:	I mean, I don't, you know, I don't, I know my wife, uh,
A:	I think she gets, you know, about two weeks a year, I guess
B:	Yeah.
A:	but they're pretty good about it if she wants other time off.
A:	They, you know, usually let her,
B:	Well, that, that,
B:	yeah,
B:	that's, that's the thing is how, how flexible they are for comp time kinds of kinds of things
A:	Yeah.
B:	and, uh, uh, that's the, the, the, uh,
B:	yeah.
B:	That's a, why it hasn't made all that much difference is because the, with the civil service, that you could take, you could take your vacation in increments of one hour
A:	Oh, really.
B:	and, uh, and, but, uh, there wasn't, uh, anything as far as comp time,
B:	so you tend to dribble away a week of it a year, uh, you know, an hour here a couple hours there kind of a thing.
A:	Just,
A:	yeah.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Uh, whereas, uh, here I, uh, things are free enough to, that, uh, the, the actual vacation time per year probably isn't that, isn't that much different,
B:	but, uh, But, uh,
A:	That's, well, that's a that's reasonable, I think.
B:	Yeah.
B:	I think the, I think the health insurance,
B:	I think that's, that's going through changes everywhere to, uh,
B:	the, they've, uh, uh, gone through a couple years ago here where they, uh, will cover you much better if you go to their designated hospitals
B:	and now they're in the process of developing a list of, of, uh, designated doctors, uh,
B:	so that just routine visits, uh, they will compensate much better for, if you go to their designated doctors.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Which, which, uh,
B:	my assumption is that, that will not include my doctor since, uh, he keeps real busy without having to, to, uh,
A:	Weigh all sorts of other things.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I think, I was watching something the other day about that actually on, uh, a news special or something like that
A:	and they were saying how in some sense that, that's good because that makes health care affordable for everyone and makes, you know, lowers the cost of everything and all insurance
A:	and in other cases it's actually bad because it winds up people, you know, don't get to, they have much less of a choice in who they can use and stuff like that
A:	so,
B:	Well, and, and I think in the, in the, in the much bigger picture than, uh, to some extent hospitals and doctors have some, uh, fixed amount
B:	and, if, if you don't work for somebody that's got enough clout to, to, uh, uh, give you, you know, give you these rates and make this agreement then, uh, you're not covered by that,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, and the added costs get passed on to you,
B:	so uh, I'm not, I'm not sure,
A:	Right.
B:	it, my, uh, one of the phrases I use is that, that it's moving towards, uh, private socialized medicine. That, uh, in terms of the negatives of, of always heard in terms of socialized medicine, you have no choice on who you, who you go to for a doctor and things like that, uh, where it's the government that decides,
B:	here it's, it's, uh,
A:	Least off, who decides.
B:	Yeah,
B:	uh, and, but it, but it's the, the same, the effect is the same as the,
B:	you, you, uh, get left out of the loop more.
B:	I, I, I know that their, uh, idea is that, uh, if, if you have to pay a bigger share, you'll, you'll be more careful about spending the, spending the money and, and helping hold down the costs
A:	Right.
B:	but, uh, I, I, I don't know,
B:	in terms of, in terms of, uh, the health care, I, uh, find that, that, uh, although I've, I've been lucky enough to never have any big problems, but that, that, uh, the cost is not a, a big factor.
B:	I want to, I want to know if the doctor's doing the right thing to make me get better.
A:	Right.
A:	You want to know that, that, that when you pick a doctor, you know, you, you could pick one who you could have some sort of a feeling about.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah
B:	and,
A:	Yeah,
A:	that, that's the,
A:	Okay,
A:	do you want to start?
B:	Okay,
B:	uh, I haven't, I don't know that much about the what the possible choices could be about reorganizing the trial by jury,
B:	but, uh, I think it works better than many other systems, like having a judge decide.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I can't think of many alternatives that could be more fair than having twelve people decide, although it's difficult because they all have to be unanimous.
A:	Now that, do you, do you agree, that they should all be unanimous?
B:	I don't,
A:	Or even, even in, uh, like they said, you know, lesser, you know, trials, you know, lesser convictions, do you think that they should be all unanimous still?
B:	I don't know,
B:	I don't know if I feel, I don't feel real strongly about that.
B:	If the, uh,
B:	the thing is, though, I, I didn't think even if it was a lower conviction, I didn't think that you could, uh, I didn't think that you really had to have a, a jury
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Unless, I guess, if you request one you can.
B:	But I think,
B:	yeah,
B:	making it unanimous sometimes might, uh, let, the only thing, it might let more people get off.
B:	I don't think it would convict any more people.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And we have so many people already, you know,
B:	the jails are already overloaded.
A:	Well, the thing is they stay until they all are unanimous.
A:	I mean if one is determined that it's, you know, that he feels that he's, you know, going against the other eleven, they all stay until everyone agrees.
A:	So I don't know if it would leave anyone getting off more unless someone just gets tired of fighting, you know, just gives in.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Well, if it's,
B:	no,
B:	but they, they, what if they never agree.
B:	Doesn't it just, uh, do they have to go back and do a whole new trial
B:	or,
A:	And they have to stay in until they all agree
B:	Agree
A:	yeah.
A:	I don't know,
A:	I'm not sure if they go, I mean to twelve new people or what they do exactly,
A:	but I do know for sure that all twelve have to agree before he can either, you know, either he or she can either go free or to jail, either one.
B:	Yeah,
B:	and that maybe on the lesser crimes that aren't too severe, that's a little stringent
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Especially because there's twelve.
B:	The thing about it is, I think jury selection, too,
B:	a lot of times, uh, the lawyers are able to pick and choose who they want on the jury
B:	and they can sway them that way, too.
A:	That's, that's just it.
A:	I don't understand.
A:	You're supposed to, you know, go in if you have, you know, like if you've never heard of the people before or anything,
A:	but I don't understand with racialism and the way religion is and everything else how you can get people that are total, totally impartial to it.
B:	I know.
B:	I don't think, well, I guess you really can't,
B:	but the other thing is when they have the sensational trials, how they get people who aren't swayed by the news either.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So, uh, but then, again, you know, they, the, one of the questions they asked is, should it just be decided by a judge
B:	and that's kind of tricky, too, because a lot of positions the judges are in, they, they can't be fired, you know,
B:	they have to, they stay till they retire
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and sometimes they're pretty partial in their judgements, too
A:	Yeah,
A:	I agree.
A:	I don't think it should be left up to the judge alone.
A:	Not only, you know, that they have to stay in there,
A:	but, hey,
A:	how many times have you heard of judges being bought over.
B:	I know.
A:	You know, so it, it's, I, I think, I think in, in the end, the judge has the presiding, you know, uh, vote.
A:	I think he can be, you know, I, I don't know if it's the way it is in real life,
A:	but I've seen it on T V where the juries go one way
A:	and the judge totally finds it obnoxious
A:	and he completely, you know, goes the other way.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Now, I'm not sure if the judge is allowed to do that in everyday life or what.
B:	I think in some cases they are.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But they know they get to decide how severe the sentence is if it's, you know,
A:	Yeah.
B:	so that's another thing where they have the power,
B:	but maybe juries could be less than twelve people
B:	or would that be more fair or less fair.
B:	Maybe there should be more than twelve people
B:	I don't,
A:	Oh, oh, my God.
A:	If there were more than twelve, can you imagine how long they'd be sitting
B:	I know.
B:	I don't know.
A:	I, I think it's just, I don't, I mean, I think it's as fair as it can possibly get,
A:	but I just think it's really you know,
A:	I mean, some cases go on for years, you know.
B:	That's true,
B:	and I've never been on jury duty,
B:	but they have to keep going and going and going. And lose their, not lose their jobs, but not go to work.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
A:	I, I don't know how it could be more fair.
A:	Course, I don't know.
A:	Maybe maybe they should be asking someone that's been on, on trial before.
B:	It could be,
B:	Really,
B:	I've never seen one in real life either
B:	so I don't have, you know, I don't know that much about it,
B:	but I think, it seems that we have a, a pretty fair system compared to other countries.
B:	I don't know how we could make it more fair.
B:	I really don't.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	The unanimous vote is questionable, though.
B:	And, and how, how many cases get juries might want to be reviewed, too.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Because, uh, I don't know if you should really have a jury for a small infraction.
B:	But I'm not sure who gets them
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I don't know anything
A:	I know.
A:	I don't know that much about it either.
A:	I just, I don't know.
A:	I, I guess maybe if they'd go and they'd ask someone in jail, you know, how they can make it more fair for them or not,
A:	but then again, maybe they should be there
A:	so that is fair.
B:	Right.
A:	I don't, I, I don't think anyone's going to come up with a better way.
B:	No,
B:	whoever came up with this was pretty smart because it was pretty, uh, unique I think, when they started it.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
B:	So, how long do we need to talk?
B:	Do you know?
A:	Oh, I think we can hang up anytime
B:	Okay.
B:	Uh, in, uh,
B:	what do I do now?
B:	Do you know?
B:	Anything,
B:	or just wait for someone else.
A:	No,
A:	I don't
A:	what else to say,
A:	so.
B:	Okay,
B:	well it was nice talking with you.
A:	It was nice talking to you, too.
A:	Bye.
B:	Thanks.
B:	Bye-bye.
B:	Well, how do you feel about spot spot testing for drugs?
A:	Well, basically I think it would be a good idea myself.
A:	I, uh, I think if somebody's not on drugs, they have no reason, you know, to be afraid of it.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh, I do think that there has to be some controls, uh,
A:	like, I don't think one test positive should, uh, be, uh, the end of it, you know.
B:	Right.
A:	I, I think they should test more than once.
B:	Yeah,
B:	it's, it's  it's refreshing to hear somebody, that has a similar opinion as mine.
A:	It,
B:	I mean, all these people that are against it that may, you know, they may not even be on drugs.
B:	They, they call it an invasion of privacy.
A:	Uh-huh
B:	And I don't see that.
B:	To me that just doesn't sound like a valid argument because this company is paying you good money that you're working for
A:	That's right.
B:	and they, I believe that, they have the right to know if you're using a, a dangerous substance
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But,
A:	There's so many jobs that, uh, really have other people's lives in their hands or even their own life
A:	and, you know, and it's, uh
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	uh, how can you do anything about a problem besides if you don't know about it?
B:	Right.
A:	You know, and I just, um, I, I think  there definitely needs to be some control to it.
B:	Right .
A:	I guess it is possible to have a false positive report.
B:	Yes.
B:	No,
B:	I, I, I agree that, you know, you, there needs to be a, a well thought out, sane approach to, how to administer that program.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Just because you, you, something can get mixed in the mail,
B:	or uh, the chemicals could react incorrectly than, than what you would expect them to.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, yeah,
B:	you, you know
A:	Or somebody's test gets mixed up with somebody else's.
B:	Right.
A:	I mean, those things do happen.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Uh, I certainly wouldn't want people's lives ruined  uh, wrongly.
B:	Right,
B:	and, you know, I've
B:	the, the, the company that I work for, uh, has just recently, well, you know, within the last couple of years, instituted for all new hired employees,
B:	they submit to a urine test.
A:	Uh-huh
B:	And, they, they say that there's been, you know, they, they, they've also implemented random testing.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And , it hasn't happened to me in the couple of years that, you know, it's been in progress
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but, uh, I, I fully agree with it
B:	and there's, you know, there's all these memos going around about folks that are disgruntled and feel it's an invasion of privacy,
B:	and I, I agree with you.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	If, if, if you feel it's an invasion of privacy, you've, you've probably got something you're trying to hide
A:	Yeah
A:	and you maybe need to look for some other type of job to do  that, uh, doesn't require the testing.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Right.
A:	Uh, to me, it's, to me it's not an invasion or privacy.
A:	I think it's people have a right to know if, if, uh, their, their life maybe's in jeopardy or, uh, Yeah.
B:	Or, the quality of their product.
A:	Their work, the work they're doing for their company.
A:	Uh, those things are all affected.
A:	If not immediately, it certainly does eventually.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I think that's where a lot of the problem is at first.
A:	It doesn't seem to, uh, bother the quality of work
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but eventually it does.
B:	Right,
B:	because it usually requires more and more of that substance that you're misusing to get the same effect.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Um.
A:	Course, I feel the same way on the AIDS problem.
A:	I, I don't think that's an invasion of privacy,
A:	that's the only communicable disease that they're not allowed to test for you know,
A:	and it's destroying a lot of   people's lives
B:	and then   and one of the few that they don't have a cure for
A:	Yeah,
A:	and it's, you know, it's, it's destroying people's lives
A:	and I, I think that person, plus anybody in danger should, should know about it and be aware of it.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I don't know.
A:	It's, it's kind of hard to
A:	I guess the gay movement has had a lot to do with considering that, that, uh, an invasion of privacy.
A:	Of course, that's not supposed to be what we're talking about today, I guess.
A:	So, I kind of get off on a tangent here.
B:	Yeah
A:	Uh, do you work for, uh, Texas Instruments?
B:	Yes,
B:	I do.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And I'm, I'm down in the, the central,
B:	but I don't know how familiar you are with Texas,
B:	but I'm in a, we live in a town, uh, near a town called Temple. Which is right in between Waco and Austin on the freeway.
A:	Um.
A:	Oh, that's probably why,
A:	my brother did live in Grapevine, Texas.
A:	That's near Dallas.
B:	Right.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	We're probably about two, two and a half hours south of him.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	So.
A:	It's pretty hot down there probably.
B:	Oh my!
A:	Yeah
B:	It's, actually, we got about two inches of rain in about three hours, yesterday.
A:	Oh, did you really?
B:	And it's   cooled things down somewhat.
A:	Oh, that's great.
B:	It's getting more humid now,
B:	but,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	We, we need rain real bad up here.
B:	Uh-huh
A:	It's, uh, everything's really getting dry.
A:	It's, uh,
B:	Yeah
B:	It's been about three weeks since we've had any.
A:	Yeah.
A:	It's kind of at a dangerous level here.
A:	People hauling water,
A:	and, uh it's getting real bad.
B:	Um.
B:	Wow.
A:	So.
B:	How about that?
A:	So.
B:	Well, I hope you do get some rain up there.
A:	Um So do I
B:	I
A:	Uh, I can't think of anything else, uh.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I, I guess being in agreement  kind of tends to limit the conversation  you know
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh, I can understand
A:	I know if somebody is using drugs and doesn't think there's anything wrong with them, I can see them objecting. You know?
A:	there's a lot of people that think that there's nothing wrong with .
B:	One of the things I found interesting,
B:	it, it's funny that you mentioned that,
B:	T I is pretty much a worldwide company
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and we have manufacturing plants all around the world including some places where the use of certain drugs that are illegal here are not illegal.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Um. Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	Yeah,
B:	they don't have to submit to drug testing like, like they do here in the States and some places abroad.
A:	Oh, I'll be darn.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I thought that was kind of interesting too.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah,
A:	the different cultures and that  too, uh
B:	Yeah.
B:	I mean, uh, uh, from a quality standpoint, that's not, I mean, just because it's not illegal doesn't mean it doesn't affect you the same way.
A:	No,
A:	no.
A:	I'm sure it would have to affect you the same way.
A:	I, I can't think that would make any difference  whether it was legal or not,
B:	Yeah.
B:	Right.
A:	it, it would still have to affect you the same way.
B:	Yeah,
B:	but, like if you're going to do business in another country, you've got to respect their rules.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I mean if, if, you know, that, that's the trade off.
A:	Oh yeah.
A:	You can't you go by their laws.
B:	Yeah.
A:	The same way our people have to go by their laws when they're over there.
A:	That's why a lot get in trouble because they have to follow their rules
B:	Huh
A:	and, uh some of the countries are very much against drugs
B:	Right.
A:	and you use them, you pay for it
B:	Usually with you life in some places.
A:	Yeah,
A:	a lot of them.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Where, where  is it they lose the, if they steal they lose a thumb or a finger?
B:	That's right.
B:	Yeah,
B:	from the Middle East.
A:	Is that where it is?
B:	Yeah.
B:	Iraq, Iran, in that area.
A:	I thought, wow
B:	Yeah
A:	You know, that's quite a deterrent
B:	Well, in Saudi Arabia, you know, using, uh, alcohol and drugs and something like that, you get the death penalty.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
B:	So, it's pretty strict over there
A:	Yeah.
A:	So I guess, you know, we, we have so many freedoms over here we sometimes forget about how   great out country really is.
B:	Well, people tend to  take the first amendment out of context. Which, which means you know, I could do anything I want to
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and you can't stop me,
B:	and you know
A:	They, they abuse it is what they do.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
B:	So, that's,
A:	So,
B:	I don't know.
B:	I'm, I'm glad to see more and more companies implementing the policy,
A:	Okay,
A:	let's talk about schooling.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Uh, what, what contacts do you have with the public school
A:	Okay,
A:	well, I have a boy
A:	and he just went into middle school,
A:	and I have a girl,
A:	and she's in, uh, grade school,
A:	and then I have a little boy who goes to, uh,
A:	they have something just before kindergarten,
A:	and it's called Early Childhood,
A:	and I have a young a young boy in that.
B:	Oh, okay.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	So I, I have a lot of children in, in the school system down here.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, um, I think we have excellent teachers here.
A:	I am really, uh,
A:	like the like the way the teachers work with the students.
A:	Uh, I've not been so, um, happy with the schools themselves, I guess.
A:	Like, my, last year, my son and daughter were in the same grade school before he moved up to middle school,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and it was just packed.
A:	I mean, it was a, a fire hazard if we had any kind of assembly there with parents.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And it was just a real problem.
A:	Uh, so we had to do a bond issue and, and, um, vote to take money and either have students bussed to different schools if that's what the prefer to do, or to, uh, work on the, work for another school to be built, which is a good idea,
A:	but in the meantime, the school still has lots and lots of kids in it.
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah.
A:	So, um, I think one thing is that would,
A:	maybe we don't have enough schools,
A:	and secondly, when we have enough schools, sometimes we can't get the, the support for the teachers that we need to pay them to keep good teachers.
B:	Well, I think that's, I think that's, uh, true.
B:	I, I've got a little different, uh, contact,
B:	but I've, I've got a, one son that graduated from high school last year and another son that's a, a sophomore this year
A:	Oh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, uh, my wife teaches kindergarten here in Richardson.
A:	Oh, great.
B:	Uh, but, in general, I, I think the, the, you know, one of the reasons that we, we, uh, the, chose to live in Richardson when we, when we came here was the, was the schools,
B:	and I think that Plano and Richardson in terms of the, uh, things seriously wrong with the public schools are not nearly to the extent that
A:	We see through the, out the country.
B:	uh, right,
B:	right.
B:	And I think, I think part of that is that, is the, the, uh, a big part of that is just the demographics,
B:	the population in those schools are, are, typically, uh, people that very much value the education and support the, the school systems
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	I think that's right.
B:	and, and, uh, although there's still some, still some problems,
B:	but, uh, I, you know, I, when I was, when I was going to school,
B:	I grew up in Iowa,
B:	and, and, in my family, school was certainly valued,
B:	but if there was ever any sort of a, uh, if if I was ever in trouble in school, I was also in trouble at home even more so,
A:	Yeah
B:	and I think that part of it is, is not exactly with the schools, but with the, with the, uh the culture that doesn't, doesn't value the education and doesn't value the schools and doesn't support, uh what the schools are, are trying to do.
A:	The home,
A:	yeah.
A:	I think that's right.
A:	It is so hard with a family system, um, either divorced or, or just one parent or just
B:	Yeah,
B:	that's true.
A:	and then, if both of them have to work, even that is a, a hard situation for the children, uh, to, to have a supportive system around them to make school work for them
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and I think it's real important that the parents work with the school, um
B:	Yeah.
A:	I think what you said is, is really a pinpoint, though, that the student and the family life really adds or detracts what's happening in the school
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
A:	so, um, what about your wife,
A:	is she, she happy at school
A:	or .
B:	Well, uh, she, she works very hard as a kindergarten teacher.
A:	I bet she does.
B:	She has, she has two half day classes.
B:	So she has, uh, you know, on the order of twice as many students as as the teachers in the higher grades
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Right,
A:	right.
B:	and uh, uh, but her, her background is in, is in, uh, child development, and and, uh, so forth,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and so kindergarten is as high as she, as she wants to teach,
B:	and she's she's teaching rather than something else because that, that, that's the jobs that are available and that, the schedule matches, uh, you know, with our kids and things like that.
A:	Yeah,
A:	Right.
B:	So, yeah,
B:	uh, and, but, uh, the ...
B:	So, the the question had something to do with usage of personal computers, um.
A:	Yes,
A:	we are, we are talking about computers this morning.
B:	Um, I'm a firm believer in, in having lots of them.
B:	I'm sitting at my desk now with four machines in front of me.
A:	You have, you have four machines around you,
A:	boy, well, you've, uh, you've got me beat.
A:	I have a, a Zenith here
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and at home I have a Commodore and a Zenith,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and my wife has an A T and T Twelve Hundred, I believe it is.
B:	Good grief.
B:	What do you do with all those?
A:	Well, actually on my Commodore I mainly study lottery numbers, would you believe.
A:	I have written some, uh, programs in Basic whereby I can select any number of, uh, drawings and from that extract the numbers that have appeared the most
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Right.
A:	I have another program in which I can look at the cyclical, uh, appearance of these numbers to see if there's anything that's consistent on that.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I have another number that allows me, another program that allows me to add all the numbers I want,
A:	and then it generates a complete set of numbers so that all combinations are covered
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	so this is what I do most of the time, uh,
B:	That's what you do on your, at least one of your machines
A:	On my Commodore
B:	on your Commodore.
A:	on my Commodore,
A:	uh-huh.
A:	And of course I have, uh, word processors,
A:	and I write all my letters
B:	Yeah.
A:	it's wonderful, uh,
A:	my, uh, thoughts in my head come in bursts of about a paragraph at a time,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and I get them all down,
B:	Yes.
A:	and naturally on a computer if you make a mistake, who cares,
A:	you can go back and, uh, correct it very easily
B:	Yes,
B:	yes.
A:	so that makes it very, very nice.
A:	I get all my thoughts down and go back and clean it up very, very readily.
A:	So how about you, Charles?
B:	Well, I, um, I do an awful lot of preparation of documents, um, uh,
B:	and I use word processors and, and fancier programs, I mean you know, graphics programs and simply make all of our slides,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	some of them I do on a Sun,
B:	some I do on an X T
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	now maybe we don't call these personal computers, um,
B:	I started out with, you know, an I B M P C back in the, you know, about a year after they came out
A:	Yeah.
B:	and, you know.
A:	So, where, may I ask where you work, sir?
B:	I work for the government in Washington.
A:	I know you work for the government,
A:	I just wondering are you an ,
A:	or what, what, what section of it,
B:	Of, in, in, in an obscure part of the defense department.
A:	Oh, uh-huh,
A:	because, see, that's my type of work, too.
A:	I work at the Applied Research Lab here, here on campus,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and, my, my field is underwater acoustics
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and there's a lot of things we can do with computers into, uh, studying how, uh, things vary in the water, you know and, uh, taking advantage of them, and so forth,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	so it's a very nice, very nice field,
A:	and I, I am retiring at the end of this month. End of December, excuse me.
B:	Are, are, are you, are you also a professor,
B:	or, or do you just research.
A:	Yes.
A:	I'm a, I'm an associate professor,
A:	but my, I, I'm a full time researcher
B:	Yes.
A:	and it's, uh, been a very, very interesting career, believe me.
B:	I can believe.
B:	What are you going to, what are you going to do when you stop, I mean, take all your machines with you, or,
A:	Well, uh, the ones here in the laboratory obviously I'm, they're going to stay,
A:	but I have similar machines at home.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I would consider doing some more consulting when I get home
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but I have a very, very busy extra life anyway.
A:	I'm also a musician,
A:	and I play in several symphony orchestras
B:	Yes.
A:	and, uh, I run a concert band,
A:	and so I have a lot of external, uh, interests
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yes.
A:	but I do want to get very deeply, much more deeply into computer work, because obviously the world is going to be controlled run and operated by computers in the future.
B:	Yes.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	There's no doubt about it,
A:	because it is really taking over,
A:	and the amount of work that we're doing and the depth of things that we are studying can basically only be handled by computers, because, uh, it's so much involved
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and it sounds as though you're probably more aware of that than I am, because, uh, I don't get to use it in my daily work as much as I would like to.
A:	Here again let's say I'm starting to getting ready, in preparation for retirement
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
A:	and, uh, so basically what I'm doing is slowly getting rid of my things.
A:	For many, many years I had a full size acoustics, uh, study laboratory where I could take recordings and, and, uh, perform experiments with them and so forth,
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and so that's gone now,
A:	and so I'm sort of out of business.
B:	Um.
A:	Uh, as I say, I worked with
A:	fellow named Steve Blazey was the fellow I worked with for many, many years
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and he is now retired.
A:	So it's been an interesting life,
A:	and computers have come in towards the latter end of that.
A:	I wish we had had computers in the very beginning.
A:	It would have been,
A:	Seem to have the topic already on top of tip of your tongue there
A:	so why don't you go ahead and start.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Isn't the, uh, the subject auto repair, for tonight?
A:	Yes, sir.
B:	Yeah.
B:	That's great.
B:	The reason I say that is pretty timely because just tonight I went out and changed the oil in my car
B:	and, that's something I like to do and, uh, something I, something I can do with now the sophisticated auto, cars we have today with all the computers and everything.
A:	Okay.
A:	Right,
A:	exactly.
B:	It's, uh, and there's not a whole lot you can do without the equipment and electronic analysis that needs to be done on a car,
B:	but I do like to get out and tinker with a car
B:	and it's something I can do still.
B:	Do you enjoy working with your car?
A:	I sure do.
A:	I, uh, in fact, the last thing I have, I've done I, I don't even remember what it is.
A:	I've had to have oil changes done myself because I live in an apartment complex, where we are not allowed to, work on our vehicle.
B:	Oh, dear.
A:	We can't even wash our vehicle,
A:	so.
B:	Oh, that's too bad.
A:	Uh, but the last thing I can remember doing
A:	I had a sixty-six Mustang,
B:	Oh.
A:	and that was all right because like you said that was pre technology days, I guess.
B:	Oh, yes.
A:	And, uh, you know, you could do a lot of it yourself still,
A:	and, uh, I didn't tinker too much with the engine.
A:	It was, it was in pretty good shape,
A:	but my main concern and what I enjoy doing was, was the interior.
B:	Oh.
A:	And, uh, it was, it was pretty shelled, uh,
A:	but it was fun.
A:	It was taking the whole thing, you know, the whole interior apart and, you know, ordering new carpeting and, uh,
B:	And did you install all that yourself?
A:	Right.
B:	Well, that was, I bet that was a lot of fun.
A:	And,
A:	It, it was.
A:	I, my wife enjoyed, uh, she, you know, helped out a little.
A:	We sanded down the, the insides of the door panels. And painted, those and,
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Wow.
B:	Do you still have the car?
A:	No,
A:	I sold it.
B:	Well, that's too bad.
B:	A sixty-seven uh, Mustang is about the, uh, top, top year for the Mustang car.
A:	Yeah,
A:	it was fun though.
A:	It was fun.
A:	I, I really enjoyed it,
A:	and I was surprised at, at, uh, the availability of parts yet.
B:	Yes.
A:	You know, you can, you can still get factory original parts.
B:	Huh.
A:	But, uh, you pay a premium
A:	but you just don't get them.
A:	I, I didn't.
A:	I went ahead and got, you know, Japanese made duplicates or wherever they were made,
A:	Canada.
B:	Yeah.
A:	You know, prefabs and all that stuff
A:	but,
B:	Well, you know, that's, that's fine.
B:	I, I don't think that there would be, uh, you know, a, a quality difference.
B:	I don't know.
B:	You wouldn't, you didn't notice the difference, did you?
A:	Well, actually there was.
B:	Oh.
A:	And, uh, I had heard rumors that it was because they couldn't duplicate certain patterns, uh, exactly.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And so like the, the glove box was just a little, little wider, little harder to fit in,
B:	Oh, dear.
A:	and the carpeting, uh, stretched a little too far.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I had to cut some of the sides down.
B:	Oh, dear.
A:	But just, just little things.
A:	You know, one of the screws on, on the door uh, window regulators
A:	you could get three of the, three of the four to lineup.
A:	The fourth one you couldn't get to lineup no matter what you did.
B:	Oh, I bet that was frustrating, wasn't it?
A:	You know,
A:	Oh, it was
A:	but, the end result is after you put your, your panels on, nobody sees that you got one screw missing in your, your window regulator anyway
A:	and, it, it runs. It works just the same,
B:	Right,
B:	right.
A:	so.
B:	Yeah,
B:	that's, that's true.
B:	Well, you know, that, that is something I really enjoy doing. Um, working on our car too,
B:	the, uh, I just changed my oil, oil tonight
B:	but, uh, I enjoy also working on things like the brakes
B:	and, uh, in fact, just two weeks ago I helped my neighbor out on his brakes on his car.
B:	And, uh, either if it's a drum or, or disc brakes, I enjoy working on those kind of things.
A:	Disc brakes don't seem to give me too much problem
A:	but I, I honestly don't have the tools for the drum.
A:	I know you got, uh, certain spring lever that you got to have or some, uh some spring pulley or something that you got to pull that spring back over onto that notch.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Spoons and,
B:	Yes,
B:	you do
A:	Uh, my dad has got all that
A:	and, and I, I helped him when I was growing up,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but I don't have that stuff now,
B:	Yeah.
A:	because of the drum brakes I, you know, don't have any choice but to take them in.
B:	Yeah,
B:	that's true.
B:	And, you know, it, it doesn't, doesn't hurt every once in a while to have them done professionally too
B:	because, um, I was helping my neighbor out
B:	and one of his drums needed to be resurfaced
B:	and I don't have, of course, the equipment to do that,
A:	Sure.
B:	so he took it into a shop and had it uh, resurfaced and, and fixed that way.
B:	But, yeah,
B:	it is true, uh, you know,
B:	I did have a sixty-four Ford truck that I wish I still had and loved to get inside that and tinker around with it and work with it, because you didn't have all the extra, extra stuff, that's in there now.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	I'll tell you what.
A:	The other, the nicest thing about them is, uh, everything was standard.
A:	You didn't have to worry about finding a metric anything.
B:	Oh, yeah.
A:	Boy, I tell you.
B:	And you know,
A:	Uh, what do you think are the major social changes?
B:	Well,
A:	What age, uh, if you don't mind me asking.
B:	Well, I'm, I'm, uh, thirty-one.
A:	Oh, well, you're, you're young.
A:	I'm in my early fifties
B:	Yeah,
B:	right
A:	so you should take my word
A:	you're young
B:	Oh, I, you know, I've seen a social change,
B:	yeah.
B:	It's definitely,
B:	for sure,
B:	and it's, uh, uh, and besides that, I came from California where social change is like, you know,
A:	Every day?
B:	Yeah.
B:	I mean every second.
B:	You know, social change in California means it takes another two or three minutes longer to get to work.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I can believe that
B:	And, uh, when I started work there in, it started, you know, actually going to work in eighty-two,
B:	I guess that's when it was.
B:	Between eighty-two and eighty-five, uh, it started out taking me an hour and fifteen minutes to get to work,
B:	and then it became, you know, an hour and a half, to, you know, some days, two hours to get to work.
B:	That's social change.
A:	That's, that's social change.
A:	Well, what do you think is, is the major social change?
B:	Oh,
A:	Right now.
B:	Yeah,
B:	that's, that's a, that's a tricky one.
B:	I'll let you go first.
A:	Okay.
A:	I think probably the big major change is the role of women.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I think, one, the women, uh, in the work force.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And I think the fact that they're becoming, uh, more, uh, how do I want to say, not necessarily politically inclined,
A:	but they're more apt to be in political offices now.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I think, you know, we've made great strides in that respect.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I think that it, thirty years ago, when, uh, I was newly married, family was very, very important.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Then I think we veered where the family was not as important a unit.
A:	And I think now it's revolving back full circle.
A:	I think the family unit is becoming much more important than it was.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Oh, I think it's, that's probably for two reasons.
B:	Uh, you know, the number one is, women wanted to get out of the house.
B:	And the second reason was, is everything costs so much more that if you don't have, you know, equal rights so that your wife gets equal pay, you can't make twice as much
A:	That's true,
A:	that's true
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And yet, I'm also noticing, uh, in the areas that I'm working and stuff, more and more women are wanting now to stay home with the children where fifteen years ago they didn't.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I mean, you know, they wanted children,
A:	but they still wanted to be their own person out in the work force.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	But I see, I am seeing women now wanting to stay home more, at least until the children are up to, you know, school age.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, I find that very interesting that, that it's sort of reverting back.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I, I've, I've, I've found that, too, you know, where the wife is married and, and,
B:	I mean, not, not married,
B:	sorry,
B:	wrong word.
B:	Where the wife has gone to school, you know and gotten a degree, spent five years out in the work force, found, you know, the, the, their husband, either at college, or whatever,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but still, you know, after five years, it's like, first kid
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	and then they're out of the work force for another ten years.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	But, I think most of those people are still out
A:	Probably.
B:	I think that generation, they're all at home right now
B:	and, and we won't see them back for another two or three years.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	Uh, I'm, very rarely do I meet anybody whose children are, are, you know, past that age when they've been away for a few years.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But, uh, it's kind of different.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah,
A:	it is.
A:	It, uh, I, I note that I had, taken care of my grandchildren recently while my daughter and her husband had been out of town.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And I do not envy these mothers or these fathers that have these, the children that they have to rush home from work and pick them up at day care, get them through their homework, get them to their soccer practice get them to their piano lessons.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I mean, that's tough.
B:	I, uh,
A:	I don't envy these young parents
B:	I'm an assistant Scout Master
B:	and that's, that's it's like, uh,
B:	yeah,
B:	parents, uh, even rarely see their kids for weekends, which is, you know, kind of rough, too.
A:	That's true.
A:	That's true.
B:	Especially now.
A:	I don't know.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
B:	I, I know two women that, that, uh,
B:	let's see,
B:	one of them's forty-nine
B:	and the other one, well, the other one, I don't know what her age is,
B:	but I know she is, she is somewhere in that hairy age of half a century up there.
B:	And, uh, boy, I'll tell you,
B:	these are the, the go-gettingest, happiest people I've ever met.
B:	You know, because,
A:	Well, you can be go getting,
A:	but you can also get gray hairs and have a nervous breakdown
B:	I'm thirty,
B:	I'm getting gray hairs already
A:	I just know it, it would absolutely exhaust me.
A:	Maybe it's because it's my grandchildren
A:	and it's not my children.
B:	Um.
A:	Maybe that's,
A:	Okay,
A:	uh, let me see, I've got two children.
A:	One is, uh,
A:	both preschoolers,
A:	one is two
A:	and one is, uh, four.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	So, and, uh, this is my first year off,
A:	and I've always worked, uh, from the time that they were little
A:	and so I decided to hold off on my job for a while and stay home with them and spend some more time with them which I hadn't been doing.
B:	Well, I think that's wonderful.
A:	So,
B:	My children are in college.
A:	Oh.
B:	But I teach school
B:	and I teach, uh, middle school age children.
A:	Oh.
B:	And so I see a lot of, uh, variation in what happens when kids are at home.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Uh, I have taught school ever since my children were little.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But the advantage of teaching school is your hours are closer to your children's
B:	and your holidays are, too.
A:	Yeah.
B:	So teaching, I think is a, a good career to have and still be able to spend a lot of quality time with kids.
A:	Well, that's what I was doing before,
A:	I was teaching for Richardson School District.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, it just seemed like it took a lot of my time with them being so little.
B:	Right.
A:	And it's really hard.
B:	Well, with them being as young.
B:	It was much, much harder when mine were young.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And, uh, I really didn't have that much of a choice because my husband was trying to finish his, uh, college work and his Master's degree and so forth,
A:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
B:	and so it was a matter of somebody had to have a job.
A:	That's right,
A:	that's right.
A:	And that's what was kind of what, where we were, you know,
A:	we, I really didn't have to work,
A:	but I felt like I really wanted to work.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And I felt, I also felt like, boy, I was sure missing a lot
A:	and they were growing so fast
A:	and you know, it's like, do I really need to work, you know?
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And I, and it, that choice was there,
A:	I really didn't have to
A:	and, you know so I did have that advantage there,
A:	but it's different staying home too, you know.
B:	Yes,
B:	it certainly is.
B:	We,
A:	It's an adjustment to make, also.
B:	Well, I think that, uh, we need to spend more family time together with, with children today.
B:	Uh, we made a point to spend a lot of quality time
B:	and the activities that we were involved in were the activities the kids were involved in, you know, like, uh, through scouting or you know, anything like that
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
B:	we participated.
B:	And, uh, we always made a point to have breakfast together and supper together now.
A:	Wow, that's great.
B:	When,
B:	yeah,
B:	when, uh, the kids were in high school, it was harder to always have supper together,
B:	but we did always have breakfast together.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So, we, we had supper together as much as possible,
B:	but when it wasn't feasible, you know, we kind of kept a master calendar and when it wasn't feasible, well, that was understandable,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but uh, we've always tried to spend time to talk and, uh, have some time, together time
A:	Yeah.
B:	and we sat around the table,
B:	we didn't sit in front of a T V or that kind of thing.
A:	Wow, that's great.
B:	So I think that's been important, because we do have a close family
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and even though the kids are basically, uh, grown, uh, they still like to sit down at the table and us all eat together when they're here and uh, have spoken before of, they want that kind of, you know, situation for them when, you know, and their children when they marry and have children.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah,
A:	kind of goes on.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	They do what they see, you know.
B:	That's right.
B:	They model
B:	and, with the dysfunctional families today, I'm sure, with a, as a schoolteacher also, you see what happens to these kids when these families never communicate or they're dysfunctional as far as the, between, uh, oh, second families, uh, one parent families or all those kinds of problems that they have
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	yeah.
B:	and then you see them magnified in the children.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Plus, you teach middle school,
A:	so I'm sure that,
B:	Oh, boy,
B:	yes.
A:	You are really, you really,
A:	boy, oh, boy.
A:	I taught early childhood
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	so I had the little ones.
B:	Yes.
A:	And, uh, you know, I saw it there, too,
A:	and you, you know, you just oh, it's, it's, kind of an eye-opener.
B:	It is.
A:	So,
B:	It is.
B:	And I think most teachers realize the value of quality time with children
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and I think we make a point to do that.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I think you're right.
B:	Because we see we see all the time, the outcome of not doing that
A:	Yeah.
B:	and I think if we weren't so interested in children, in child care, then we wouldn't be teaching anyway.
A:	Right.
B:	So,
A:	Right.
B:	Uh, I wish we could reach more of the rest of the world
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah.
B:	I think, uh, the major problems in education are not what's happening in the schools,
B:	it's what's happening in the families.
A:	I agree,
A:	yeah.
B:	And, uh, they expect us to, you know, have, create miracles at school and fix all the problems and take over the roles of the parents as well as that of the teachers
A:	Yeah.
B:	and you get to a point where it's completely impossible.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I agree.
A:	I, I know exactly what you're saying
B:	And you just get more and more frustrated
B:	and yet, you feel for the, the kids.
B:	You do the best you can
B:	but,
A:	Okay,
A:	uh, what do you consider an invasion of privacy?
B:	Uh, I was just now told that's what the topic was
B:	and, uh, I guess invasion of privacy, uh, to me, for example would be unauthorized use of credit cards for example.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, uh, I guess recently one of the T V stations here, uh, ran a series of, uh, news casts on unauthorized credit card usage and how easy it was to get a person's credit card numbers. And use it
A:	It's very easy.
B:	and I was quite surprised at that.
B:	I guess I can consider myself fortunate that, uh, it never happened to me.
A:	Now, I've never, I've never had that happen to me either.
B:	I don't know what I'd really do if it did.
A:	What do you think about places,
A:	like I was in Michael's the other night and charged something,
A:	and they asked for my home phone even though, you know, the charge had been approved.
A:	What do you think of that?
B:	Uh,
A:	Does it bother you to give it?
B:	No,
B:	not really because I'm listed in the phone book.
B:	If I was the type of individual that, uh, had an unlisted number, I, I think I would be hesitant to give it.
A:	You know that they, they now have a, uh, I believe it's a federal law that you do not have to give your phone number on charge tickets.
B:	One of the things that upset me when I lived in California was, uh, they did a lot of things with your Social Security number.
A:	Security number,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	As a matter of fact, they even went to the point of printing our Social Security number on your driver's license.
A:	Oh.
B:	And they would not cash checks unless they had your Social Security number,
B:	so we had our Social Security numbers imprinted on our checks.
A:	Uh, uh-huh.
B:	And I was really, you know, unhappy about that situation.
B:	I think that was an invasion of privacy.
A:	Privacy,
A:	yes,
A:	yes.
A:	I can see, you know, where that was.
A:	I, I don't mind my phone number and address or work phone being given, you know, when I have to cash a check.
A:	I don't see any need for it when I'm charging something,
A:	but I, neither am I a person that has the guts to say, no,
A:	I'm not going to give it to you, either
B:	Right.
A:	You know, and, uh,
B:	One of the biggest things, I think that's going on in this country right now is the selling of, uh, mail lists and things like that.
A:	Yes,
A:	yes.
B:	You know, uh, recently we, uh, I purchased some magazines, U S NEWS and FORBES magazine.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And every since that day, I have been inundated with, you know, uh, subscriptions to this, subscriptions to that, uh, this news letter, this investment letter, uh, even to the point of people calling me at home.
B:	And prior to me ordering these magazines, I never got those kind of calls.
A:	Right,
A:	right.
B:	And,
A:	I discovered with, uh, charge cards, uh, I feel like that I don't know whether it's the stores themselves that sell the list or whether the, uh, uh, credit report bureau sells it,
A:	but I get catalogs from people I've never even heard of.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And I know they have to be coming from my charge cards, you know.
B:	From some, some list,
B:	yeah.
A:	From some list, you know, that knows that I have a, say a charge account at, at Neiman's or something
A:	because then I'll get catalogs that, you know, are within that range that I would never order from ordinarily,
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Right.
A:	and, uh, you know, and I get, I get tired of that.
A:	I, because I look at all that junk mail,
A:	and I think of how inept our post office is and how that's taking up you know, all their time to sort
B:	All their time.
A:	and they're not even paying full postage.
B:	Sure.
A:	You know, and if you did away with some of that, our postal service might give better service.
B:	I think the general public would be, you know, uh, tremendously upset if they knew how easy it is for, uh, let's say the criminal individuals to, to get access to people's records, uh, their credit cards driver's licenses, checks, things like that.
A:	Right.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh, I don't think anybody really knows what to do about it.
A:	No,
A:	no.
B:	Computers caused a lot of this, I'm sure.
A:	Well, you know, let's face it,
A:	computers can be gotten into very easily if you, if you really have the, the know with all, if you're, you know, so inclined to, uh, oh, what do I want to say, have the smarts to be able to tinker with something like that. You know, and have a basic knowledge,
B:	Sure.
A:	they're very easy to get into.
A:	To tap into a system.
B:	Seems as though they are,
B:	yeah.
A:	Uh-huh, you know,
A:	and, uh, which is scary,
A:	I mean, you know, our lives are on computers.
B:	Unfortunately.
A:	And, uh, and I don't know,
A:	I kind of, I resent the calls of an evening trying to sell me something.
A:	Uh,
B:	Fortunately, I haven't, uh, haven't, uh, been inundated with that situation yet.
A:	We are constantly, it seems like.
A:	I don't know why.
A:	You know, either wanting to clean our carpet, sell us storm windows,
A:	Okay, Jerry,
A:	I guess tonight's topic is about recycling.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And I'd like to tell you first of all what's happening in our community here in Plano.
B:	All right.
A:	Right now we have a pretty nice recycling program where a lot of the recyclable materials can be picked up by the, by the collection agency or the, the city along with your garbage can.
A:	Uh, you can put out newspaper,
A:	you can put out glass,
A:	you can put out aluminum cans,
A:	you can put, put out certain types of plastic material
A:	and that is on a roll out effort right now.
A:	Not all the citizens and the people in Plano can go ahead and, uh, participate right now,
A:	but, uh, that will be rolled out to everyone, I hope, in the next year or so.
A:	And those that aren't participating, they have the specific drop off sites where you can take glass and newspaper and aluminum.
A:	And I think, uh, overall that's an, an excellent opportunity
A:	because I hate to see our landfills being filled up and, uh, growing bigger and bigger and bigger where they are becoming a big problem for not only the people that are living today, but for the future also.
A:	So,
B:	Yeah,
B:	uh, I was
A:	How about your community?
B:	My community,
B:	that's cute.
B:	I live in a place called Dye Mound.
A:	Dye Mound?
B:	Or Dye Community.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And it's not a city, not incorporated,
B:	my nearest neighbor's about a half a mile at least,
B:	I can't even see their house
B:	and, uh,
A:	Sounds like a place where I grew up
B:	Yeah,
B:	I mean, uh, I'm out in, I'm out in the wilderness. Literally.
A:	Well, I like it.
B:	And, uh, well, give you an idea,
B:	it's three and a half miles of dirt road to the concrete, I mean, to the asphalt,
B:	we're out there.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, uh, we, I do some interesting recycling things.
A:	Well, good.
B:	I'm building our house right now
B:	and I'm going to incorporate into my, uh, garage area a weight activated, uh, crusher.
A:	Oh, okay.
B:	So when I drive the car in the, in the driveway in the afternoon, it, it will just drive it up on a ramp that actually puts me on top of the, the, uh, pressure side of a, uh, hydraulic cylinder.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And the weight of the car will crush, what's ever in the disposer.
A:	Oh.
B:	hopefully, it's not my wife.
A:	Well, let's hope not.
A:	You can be, uh, get in trouble for that.
B:	Well, I thought I'd, you know, I'd use it as a, an escapement type thing.
B:	I don't know if you're familiar with that operation,
B:	but, what you do is you just build up the pressure
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and then you go over and release it
B:	and then it just, it just drops, you know.
A:	Well, it's quite similar to a hydraulic jack, isn't it?
B:	Very similar,
B:	yeah.
A:	Okay,
A:	okay.
B:	Well, what, what it will be, you just, you drive up on the jack,
B:	but you, it won't go down.
A:	Yes,
A:	until you release it.
B:	Until you pull the pin,
B:	yeah.
A:	All right.
B:	Anyway I have another, uh, recycling method I use.
A:	I think,
A:	Yes.
B:	You know all that junk mail you get?
A:	Oh, yes,
A:	I sure do.
B:	The glossy paper that says, buy this, and send off for that and you have won and all that.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Well, anytime they send me a return envelope I put all that stuff back in the envelope plus the other stuff that I, you know, happen to gather up.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Oh.
B:	Because, uh, well, like I say, we live a way
A:	Yes.
B:	And I don't like that
A:	No.
B:	so I don't do that.
B:	So I take it
B:	and I send, and I mail it back to them.
A:	Well, great.
A:	That's excellent.
B:	I've had four companies actually stop mailing me stuff.
A:	Well, uh, if a lot of people did that, then we wouldn't have a lot of this junk mail.
A:	That's a great idea.
A:	I hadn't thought about that
A:	and we might be able to incorporate some of that.
A:	One thing,
B:	Yeah.
B:	Well, I think one of the, the best ways to eliminate, uh, or help the recycling problem is to eliminate non reusable items.
A:	Right.
B:	For instance, uh, I saw a thing on, uh, NOVA, I think it was the other day.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	This guy has designed recyclable materials, I mean recyclable items.
A:	Right.
B:	Whatever he makes, it's all out of the same thing.
A:	Oh.
B:	See, so, plastic, it's all out of plastic.
A:	Yes.
B:	If it's metal, it's all out of metal.
B:	It's, he's a design, he's a engineer, designing stuff.
A:	Well, that's a great idea,
A:	that's a great idea.
B:	And, and, incorporating, you know, reusable materials into your, uh, you know, your assembly line into your actual scheme of product operations is is the only way to really do it on a, on a broad scale.
A:	Products.
A:	Yes.
B:	Make it financially, uh, attractive to recycle
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and somebody will find a way to make money at it.
A:	Yes,
A:	they will.
B:	And,
A:	Exactly.
B:	Well, there is a guy in Dallas,
B:	that's all he does.
A:	Huh.
B:	and,
A:	Well, that's a full time job.
B:	Yeah,
B:	well, he's, he's out for cardboard.
A:	Yes,
A:	well, I've found out, too, that, uh, you know, a couple years ago,
A:	we've always been recycling newspaper for the last twelve years,
A:	and at one time we could get a pretty good return, uh, with the Boy Scouts.
A:	We could take and collect the newspaper,
A:	So, are you a news person?
B:	Uh, I really am,
B:	I enjoy, I enjoy listening to the news and getting as much as I can. Although, you know, I'm a full time student
B:	and I work full time, too,
B:	so, or not full time,
B:	but I work quite a bit
B:	and so so I mostly depend on the radio, you know, on the way to work.
A:	Yes.
B:	I like, I like to listen to national public radio, uh, all things considered.
A:	Yes,
A:	great show.
B:	Yeah,
B:	and I like to listen to that and catch, you know,
B:	I don't get, I don't get a lot of, uh, sometimes I don't get the current events, you know. Because that show kind of has feature stories that might not directly deal with, uh, you know, some important issue on the day.
B:	But,
A:	Yeah,
A:	so, so the real, the real current news and, the hard news is, is not, there is not really enough of it there.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Right,
B:	that's right,
B:	yeah.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I've had, I've had that frustration, too.
A:	I end up switching stations from time to time.
B:	Yeah
B:	Yeah,
B:	you, you you like N P R uh, programming?
A:	Uh, in general.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Uh, I watch a lot of C N N uh, and C SPAN.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh, I, I subscribe to three newspapers.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh, you know, I sort of can't get enough of this.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And, and I, when I travel elsewhere, I'm often amazed at the local papers how little they have. Of world, world events and national events.
B:	Oh, yeah.
B:	Oh, yeah.
A:	Well, in, in Dallas, what are the, what is the newspaper situation?
B:	Well we we, we have a, a big newspaper situation.
B:	Uh, because, we used to have two newspapers up until, uh, last Sunday
B:	and a, uh, major, uh, a, one of our major papers just closed down.
B:	They closed shop, and said, well, we can't put any more papers out,
B:	we're done.
A:	Was, was that the, the better paper
A:	or ,
B:	Yeah,
B:	I thought so.
B:	It was a, it was a more effective paper as far as I was concerned.
B:	It, it had, uh, uh, it got to the news, you know, and gave you the dirty facts pretty quick and easy. Uh, which I like.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I don't, I don't like to, you know, I like to save the editorial information or the the politically, uh, weighted information, you know, for the, for a different section.
B:	I like just to get to the, you know, find out what's happening pretty quick.
A:	Yes.
B:	And I feel that the other newspaper, uh,
B:	the the DALLAS MORNING NEWS is the one that's still here.
B:	The TIMES HERALD is the one that closed up
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, uh, the, the MORNING NEWS was, was, is okay,
B:	but, you know, you have to wade through a lot of editorial garbage as far as I'm concerned.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	You know, many times it doesn't doesn't reflect my own opinion
B:	and,
A:	But if you, if you were to look at the front page of today's MORNING NEWS MORNING TIMES rather, would you, would you see things about what is going on in Europe?
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	No,
B:	no,
B:	that's the problem.
A:	Oh.
B:	But, you know, you see, you see Troy Aikman's knee surgery on the front page, you know.
A:	Whoever Troy Aikman is.
B:	Yeah,
B:	a, a quarterback for the Broncos or for the, for the Cowboys.
A:	Okay.
B:	Uh, you know, you know, you know what I mean
A:	Yeah.
B:	that, there is, uh, local news that, uh, that really a lot of times doesn't, doesn't change, change my life one way or the other.
A:	Yeah.
B:	So, uh,
A:	I guess it's current events, but not the kind of current events that changes the world.
B:	Right,
B:	right,
B:	yeah
B:	Not something you'll, you'll, uh, be interested in ten years from now by any means. You know.
A:	Yeah.
B:	How, how about you?
B:	Uh, I guess in Washington, D C you guys have several papers that are pretty pretty effective don't you?
A:	Yes.
A:	A lot of them.
A:	I, I rather like the WASHINGTON POST.
B:	Yeah.
A:	But, I also get the NEW YORK TIMES and the WALL STREET JOURNAL.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh, and, uh, each of them covers different things in, in in different ways
B:	Right.
A:	and so it's, you know, if I only looked at one of them I would have a different clearly would have a different perspective on the world.
B:	Right,
B:	yeah.
B:	Uh, I, I have a question.
B:	Uh, does, does the WALL STREET JOURNAL, uh,
B:	I, I've kind of gathered lately that, uh, maybe their information is not just only related to business.
B:	Is that, is that a correct assumption?
A:	That, that is certainly true.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh, they will, they will have articles,
A:	like a few days ago they had a, a nice article on Einstein, you know theory of relativity. You know, that started on the front page ran in, into the full, almost full page inside.
B:	Oh.
B:	Oh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Now, these are feature kind of articles.
B:	Wow.
A:	All the, all the, uh, you know, the bulk of the paper certainly is about business kinds of activities.
B:	Right.
A:	But, but there is some very good other articles uh, you'll find in the, in the JOURNAL.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Do you find that you're, uh, uh, disappointed or pleased with, uh, uh, the performance of like network coverage of news?
A:	Uh, I wish it were in more depth.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh, that doesn't mean to say longer,
A:	just more facts would be nice.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh, C N N has, has, you know, was, was pretty good during the war.
B:	Oh, yeah,
B:	definitely.
A:	Uh, and they were, you know, sort of had a unique vantage point for, for doing that reporting.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	So, but, you know, it's not, it's never quite,
B:	All right.
B:	Uh, exercise huh
A:	Yeah.
B:	Uh, as a matter fact, I work out in the mornings.
B:	I belong to Presidents.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, uh, I have got a routine for every morning of the week
B:	and I don't work out on Saturday or Sunday
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but, uh, I do, I do a combination of, uh, uh, running and weight training
A:	They set that up for you.
B:	No,
B:	I, uh, actually I just, uh, joined on my own
B:	and I have been thinking about getting with a, uh, one of their counselors just so see what, uh, they might have to offer as far as, uh, alternatives.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But, I pretty much, uh, worked on my own routine.
A:	And, uh, what kind of running do you do?
B:	They have got the track on the inside.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, uh, I run one mile on Monday, Wednesdays and Fridays
B:	and then on Tuesdays and Thursdays, I run two miles.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And then after that, I work out with weights.
A:	Is is just aerobics
A:	or,
B:	Uh, I work out with free weights.
A:	No,
A:	uh, I mean the running.
B:	Oh, uh, yeah.
B:	It is really the, uh, aerobic work out part.
A:	You do it, you do a mile in about eight minutes or less?
B:	Uh, about seven minutes.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Then you wouldn't, then you don't get, uh, out of breath.
B:	Uh, no
B:	I do
A:	Oh.
B:	Yeah,
B:	that is, that is a pretty good clip
B:	and I am pretty winded by the time I get done.
A:	Oh.
B:	So,
A:	But, I mean it's not pushing it real hard, like, you know, if you tried to make six or something like that.
B:	Oh, yeah.
B:	I, I, uh, could probably go faster,
B:	but then I would wear myself out
A:	Right.
B:	And I wouldn't be able to work out anything else.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah.
B:	How about you?
A:	Yeah,
A:	I, I don't run much any more.
A:	I did when I was in school.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Right now I just lift, uh, weights and do push ups and sit ups
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and, and I, uh, jump rope a little bit
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and that is about it
B:	Yeah.
A:	And I don't, I don't lift any heavy weight, uh,
A:	they are about a third of my body weight.
B:	Oh, I see.
B:	So this, uh,
B:	do you just try and keep them, I guess, uh, firm and, uh,
A:	Yeah
A:	and uh, uh, I play the trumpet
A:	and the, uh, the more upper body strength, the easier it is to play.
B:	Yeah,
B:	uh, that is true.
A:	You have to do a whole lot of sit ups
A:	and, uh, and then, uh, I hurt my neck, uh, about three years ago.
B:	Yeah.
A:	So, you really have to build up around your neck and your shoulders to keep from, uh, hurting yourself when you play high.
B:	Oh, I see.
A:	You have to, you have to do it correctly, you know,
A:	it is like an exercise in itself,
A:	but a lot of people, uh, strain themselves doing it.
B:	Oh, I see.
B:	Uh, so you are in, uh, in part of a band?
A:	Uh, I play at Church.
B:	Oh, I see,
B:	I see
B:	I use to play an instrument when I was in high school,
B:	but it wasn't the trumpet
A:	Yeah.
B:	So, I was just wandering if that was what it was or something.
B:	I think,
A:	Uh-huh
B:	So do you have any plans of maybe running more when the weather gets nicer?
A:	Well, yeah,
A:	uh, well the weather is nice except for when it rains, you know I mean in Dallas.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
A:	I keep thinking about it,
A:	but that doesn't mean it gets done.
A:	I, I mostly jump rope more.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	You know.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I use to do a little bit of jumping rope, uh, when I was, uh,
B:	well a while back I was more into basketball
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, uh, I could do a lot of jump rope and other jumping exercises to try to build my calves.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, uh, but, it has been a while since I have done that.
A:	Yeah.
A:	I do a toe lift and squats for that.
B:	Right.
A:	But you know it, it doesn't, uh, doesn't, uh, accustom your legs to the kind of strength that you have like when you are running for a long time.
B:	Right.
A:	They tend to tighten up whenever, whenever you have to do something at, uh, uh, great length of time.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I, I, uh, that is true.
B:	I have noticed that, uh,
A:	And it also builds too much mass if you just, you know.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	So, it is like, I, I lift weights with about the same curl weight as I do the squats with.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, then it doesn't bother me very much.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Huh. That is interesting though.
B:	Uh, I have been thinking of changing, uh,
B:	I have done the same routine for almost two years now
B:	and I am thinking of, uh, changing it up.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh, that is why, well, you know, I was thinking to talking to one of their counselors and seeing what different exercises they could get me on to, uh, get out of the routine.
A:	Right.
B:	Because I have heard that, you know, you get locked into a routine then you are going to get to a point where you just stop developing.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So, I am looking at changing things a little bit.
A:	Yeah,
A:	that is, uh, I have started doing more push ups
A:	and, and it has helped a lot
A:	and then I add sets to it so that I don't like you said, wear it out.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I don't try to push it so the end in one set.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Okay,
A:	uh, clothing at work.
A:	Um, I work as a news reporter,
A:	and  a lot of,
B:	Oh.
A:	I work in a, since I work in a small station,
A:	this is my first job
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and so, I dress very variedly if that's a word.
A:	Um, sometimes I'm shooting and doing photography,
A:	and so I'll be in jeans one day,
A:	and another day I'll be on camera,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and so I'll be in a suit
A:	and another day I'll come in
A:	and I won't know what I'm doing,
A:	so I'll wear a pant suit in case I have to shoot.
B:	Yeah,
B:	uh.
B:	Oh.
A:	So, it really varies.
A:	I try to dress very comfortably.
A:	I don't really like dressing up at all.
B:	Oh, me neither
A:	I don't, I don't wear a lot of makeup or anything like that.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I just,
A:	I don't know,
A:	it just, it takes too much time out of my day,
A:	and I don't, I don't know
B:	Yeah,
B:	same here.
B:	I don't mind not wearing any makeup
A:	Yeah,
A:	I don't mind it at all. Um.
B:	Um, I work at a bakery because I'm a, still a, a college student. Um.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Okay.
B:	But, we, we have to wear white pants and, um, any color T shirt, as long as it's not like a bright color, like a pastel.
A:	White pants in a bakery.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Wow.
B:	Yeah,
B:	the bakers wear all white
A:	Okay.
B:	And we wear aprons and have to pull our hair back
B:	and so.
A:	What's the name of the bakery?
A:	Oh, Italian I guess.
B:	Yeah
B:	it's Italian bakery.
B:	And, uh, so, I don't mind having, having to wear a uniform, because I don't have to buy, you know right, as you know, many clothes.
A:	New clothes and stuff.
A:	Yeah,
A:	that's one thing I would like, is just to sort of have, I really don't like uniforms but, just to have something I don't have to get up and decide what to wear.
B:	Oh, yeah.
B:	Yeah.
A:	That just bugs me to death.
B:	I know
B:	I do that every day for school
A:	Oh, yeah.
B:	Yeah,
B:	but I, I like to wear comfortable things like cotton and baggy things and.
A:	Sweats and.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah,
A:	when I was in school, I was a sweat monster.
B:	Yeah
A:	All I had was sweats,
A:	and when it was time to go out, I didn't have anything to wear.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I know,
B:	I don't have very many dress clothes
B:	but I don't mind,
A:	Yeah.
B:	I don't need them yet
A:	Yeah.
B:	Um.
A:	Um, let me see.
A:	I hate shoes.
A:	If I didn't have to have shoes, I wouldn't have them.
B:	Oh, really.
A:	I just, oh, my feet bother me,
A:	and they're just tedious
B:	Oh.
A:	to go find shoes for me, it's just,
A:	I don't know.
A:	I wear size nine
B:	Oh.
A:	and it, I don't know if just the shoes I get, I either don't like them or they don't fit right,
A:	and I just wish that I could just go without them.
B:	Um.
B:	Oh, wow, I love shoes.
A:	Oh, really.
B:	I always buy shoes
A:	Oh.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Just the opposite.
A:	But, um, let's see,
A:	what else do I wear?
A:	Um, if I were in a bigger market, when I do get into a bigger market, I'll probably go out and buy a bunch of suits and things, and, uh, where I wouldn't have to shoot and do a lot of other things
A:	and I could  then I would be able to dress more business-like and things like that,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but we're all kind of just out of school at this station,
B:	Yeah.
A:	and so we're all, you know, still in sweats, really.
B:	Oh.
A:	So, it's pretty fun though.
B:	I like the look, the, the like suit look, professional like, you know, look,
B:	but I, I really don't have much of an opportunity to wear it
A:	Yeah.
B:	Um  I'm going to be a teacher,
A:	I.
B:	so I'll probably just wear casual clothes, maybe skirts and some.
A:	Oh.
A:	Yeah.
A:	I like this, the, uh, suits with the,
A:	they come like with a mini type skirt you know, and the jacket.
B:	Oh, yeah.
A:	I like that,
A:	but but I'm pretty short,
B:	Yeah,
B:	that is cute.
A:	I'm five four,
A:	and so that really doesn't flatter me,
A:	but I think it looks good on taller people.
B:	Yeah.
B:	I'm five three
B:	and
A:	Are you?
B:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah,
A:	any time I go to the store,
A:	I mean, I, I have like two pairs of pants, because I can never find any that are short enough for me
B:	Oh, really?
A:	and it's just, oh, ridiculous.
A:	Pants, too, I could do without those.
B:	Oh.
A:	Pants, shoes.
B:	I like the like stretch pants, the cotton ones.
A:	Yeah,
A:	those are nice.
B:	They're really comfortable.
A:	Those are nice.
B:	With a baggy sweatshirt.
A:	Yeah,
A:	those are nice.
A:	And, tennis shoes.
A:	My boyfriend's got me these L A Gear.
A:	They're kind of big and hefty tennis shoes.
B:	Oh, yeah.
A:	And it, it's just like a chore to pick up my feet. Because I'm used to wearing the little white girl tennis shoes.
B:	Oh
B:	Oh, yeah
A:	The little ones.
B:	I have a pair of those.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And I'm used to those.
A:	They're just sort of, you know,
A:	like your feet
B:	Yeah.
A:	I mean, you don't feel them.
A:	You put these things on,
A:	it's, it's, you know, like exercise or something for your feet.
A:	And I have to wear them because he gets upset if I don't.
A:	So so, so how do people in Wisconsin dress?
B:	Oh, yeah
B:	Warm this time  this time, of the year pretty warm.
A:	Warm.
B:	Sweaters and.
A:	I grew up in New York,
A:	and so I know what warm is.
A:	Like five pairs of socks and,
B:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah,
B:	sleeping in sweats or long underwear.
B:	My parents keep the house cold
A:	Hello.
B:	Hi.
A:	Okay,
A:	I pressed one
A:	so I guess we're recording now.
B:	Okay.
A:	Okay, um.
B:	Um, as far as spare time, they talked about,
B:	I don't, I think,
B:	who has any spare time
B:	I've got a, a six year old and a, um,
B:	well, my baby's one today.
A:	Um.
B:	Today's his birthday.
A:	Um.
B:	And I'm also, I'm expecting,
B:	and, so, I, I don't know,
B:	I haven't had much spare time lately
B:	but,
A:	Okay,
A:	well, I've, I have had some because I was working for P I E,
A:	and they went bankrupt
A:	so I've got quite a bit of spare time right now.
B:	Oh, uh-huh.
A:	And I've been making dolls, cloth dolls.
B:	Oh, have you?
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Oh.
A:	And, uh,
B:	You sew the bodies and everything?
A:	Yeah,
A:	it's a, they're all cloth.
A:	It's not, uh, any porcelain at all.
B:	So, so you just sew everything up, huh?
A:	Yeah
B:	Oh.
A:	and I make the clothes for them.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	What kind
A:	And.
B:	do they have yarn hair
B:	or,
A:	Um, no,
A:	you can get the little curly hair at the craft shop.
B:	Oh, uh-huh.
B:	Oh.
A:	I made some of them with that hair
A:	and then, uh, don't ask me what the other hair I made,
A:	it looked like, um, it looked,
A:	well, I made some of them with regular wigs.
B:	Oh, did you?
A:	I went to the flea markets and bought, you know, like the wigs for a dollar.
B:	Oh, uh-huh.
A:	Then I cut a V shape out of the back of them and then sewed them on.
B:	Oh, my goodness.
B:	It sounds like you're creative.
A:	They looked really cute
B:	Uh, do you sell them?
A:	I have sold five of them, so far.
B:	Oh, have you?
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	I just have to get a place where, you know, I can sell them actually.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I bet.
B:	How long does it take you to make one?
A:	Uh, if I would just work all day long, making the clothes and everything, probably about two and a half days.
B:	Oh, really?
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Oh.
A:	So.
B:	Do you enjoy it?
A:	Yes
B:	Yeah.
A:	I really do.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, then I also crochet
A:	and,
B:	I, I, I can crochet and knit.
B:	Um, actually, I started an afghan,
B:	but it's been a whole long time ago probably over a year ago
A:	Yeah.
B:	and it's sitting in my closet half done right now,
B:	but, it's a knitting one.
B:	And,
A:	Yeah.
A:	I tried knitting first,
A:	but, I don't know,
A:	I, I didn't like it.
B:	Oh, didn't you.
A:	So then I went to crocheting,
A:	but now I want to learn how to knit again.
B:	Oh.
B:	I
A:	You know.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I enjoy knitting.
B:	I, I kind of like that,
B:	but I just, like I say, haven't done it for a while.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And I do like sewing sometimes.
B:	I, I've made a few of the, you know, just the little valence curtains in my house, and things like that.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But, it, it's just finding the time for these things that you you enjoy.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah.
B:	But,
A:	Yeah,
A:	I, in fact, I just bought a serger in December.
B:	oh, I would love one of these.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Oh, that's neat.
A:	I haven't done everything on it yet, you know,
A:	but just what little bit I have used it for, I really like it.
B:	Oh, those are wonderful aren't they.
A:	You know, especially making the seams and things like that you know, it's, it's got such a professional finish on them.
B:	Oh, yeah,
B:	that, and that's what I hate doing is the finishing stuff.
A:	Yeah.
B:	It'd be nice to have that.
A:	So I like that.
B:	Oh, that's neat.
A:	And.
B:	Well, do you have, um, uh,
B:	I guess you're kind of young,
B:	I was going to say, do you have grand kids or anything to make dolls for.
A:	Well, fifty-seven's not young,
A:	but no,
A:	my son's, has been married for almost ten years,
A:	but they don't have any children.
B:	Oh, uh-huh.
A:	So, I just make clothes for my dolls.
B:	Oh, well.
B:	Well, how did you get involved in that?
A:	Just, you know, just like sewing and stuff and decided to buy a pattern and try to make a doll.
B:	So you did buy a pattern, and then started from there.
A:	And they, they turned out really cute.
A:	Yeah,
A:	you got to have a pattern for the body you know.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh,
B:	have you ever seen those bunnies that they dress?
A:	Yes.
A:	Yes.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I, I did make some clothes for one of those dress one of those.
A:	Aren't they cute?
B:	Yeah,
B:	I have quite a few of them actually in my house,
B:	I, and most of them I have bought, um, already clothed,
B:	but I did  I did make the dress on one,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and I kind of made the pattern up.
B:	It's not, it's probably not the best
B:	but
A:	No,
A:	I, I bought a bunny pattern one time,
A:	but when I sewed it up, the face of it looked like a mouse.
B:	Oh, it did?
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Oh.
A:	See, it was too pointed.
B:	Oh.
A:	So I tore it back apart again,
A:	and I haven't tried another one.
B:	You haven't sewn it back up, huh?
A:	No,
A:	but I bought a little lamb pattern and the material and everything to make it out of,
A:	but I haven't made it yet.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh, do you do any kind of painting or anything?
A:	No,
A:	I don't paint, except I stenciled my wall.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Oh, uh-huh.
B:	I I tried that,
B:	I did, I, I ended up just stenciling a, um, a blind, like a, just a roller shade.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But, I, I can, I had a hard time stenciling.
B:	For some reason I just couldn't do it.
A:	Oh, really?
B:	And people have told me it's very easy.
A:	Oh, yeah,
A:	I, my neighbor did it first
A:	and I seen her house
A:	and I saw how beautiful it looked,
A:	so then I decided well, I was going to do it,
A:	and  uh, it turned out really, really good.
B:	Well.
B:	What design did you use?
A:	Uh, mostly flowers you know.
B:	Oh, uh-huh.
B:	And, what room?
A:	I've done it in the all, uh, all my rooms.
B:	Have you?
A:	I put it in the bedrooms and the bathroom,
A:	Where are you, Bob?
B:	I am in Plano.
B:	Where are you?
A:	Oh, okay.
A:	I am in Waco.
B:	Is that right?
A:	Yeah.
B:	Oh, okay.
A:	Right down the street.
A:	Oh, credit cards.
A:	My favorite subject
B:	You mean you use credit cards?
A:	Oh, do I.
B:	I bet you used them all up over Christmas.
A:	Yeah,
A:	mostly over Christmas.
A:	Uh, I get in a rut with credit cards cause they get me kind of in a vicious cycle. Where you use them a lot one month and then you have to use whatever money you have to pay those off
B:	And then your are in debt.
A:	and so then you have no money,
A:	so you use a credit card.
B:	I understand that.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Uh, I probably have one of every credit card there is.
A:	Do you use them a lot?
B:	Well, uh, it kind of comes and goes, uh,
B:	I use uh, Citibank, the, uh, Advantage one pretty much cause you get vantage points for every dollar you spend.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Once a year, I get a free airplane ride that way.
A:	Oh.
B:	So, as long as you pay it off every month, it doesn't cost you anything.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Well, that is a good idea.
A:	Is that  that through a VISA?
B:	That is what I,
B:	Yeah.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Huh.
B:	But, uh, I got all sorts of credit cards for my business that I use
B:	but, uh, If I can get away with paying them off every month, it is alright.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	If I don't then it gets expensive
A:	Yeah.
A:	That is my problem.
A:	I don't try and pay them off.
A:	I pay, like the minimum.
B:	Well you shouldn't do that.
A:	I know
A:	So I have got myself,
B:	You never, you never get out of the hole that way.
A:	Exactly.
A:	I have got, that is why I have got myself with all this trouble now.
A:	But, I pay most of them on time and everything.
A:	It is just the,
A:	I always have them.
A:	So, it is kind of strange.
B:	Kind of like the federal government right?
A:	Oh, yeah.
A:	Exactly like the government
A:	In,  In debt.
B:	Can't never get out of debt.
B:	And every time you try to get out of debt, the economy goes to pot because people are spending money, right.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Have they put the cap on the interest rates?
B:	No.
A:	I didn't know if they actually did that or not.
A:	I know they were considering it.
B:	Just the people who don't need credit get the four and a half percent.
B:	The rest of the, uh, and me, we have got to pay fourteen and eighteen percent.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Funny how that works, isn't it
B:	The, thou who doesn't need credit, gets cheap credit.
A:	I would be interested to find out how many people, or how much, uh, people use credit this year. Say in nineteen ninety-two as opposed to nineteen ninety-one, even nineteen ninety.
A:	I think, I think it would be amazing how much, how many more people use it.
B:	Well, I think so
B:	because the,
A:	Because of the economy.
B:	That's right.
A:	Yeah.
B:	You have got to use everything you have got just to stay where you are at.
A:	Exactly.
A:	I would be very, I would like to see some numbers on that.
A:	I think that would be interesting.
B:	Do you, do you have any, uh, credit union where you work or anything like that?
A:	Yeah,
A:	I have a credit union.
B:	Do they have a Mastercard or VISA card?
A:	Yeah,
A:	they do.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	You have got that one.
A:	Yes,
A:	I do
A:	Yes,
A:	I do a matter of fact.
B:	Who, who do you work for?
A:	Uh, I work for Channel six.
B:	Oh.
A:	It's it's an N B C affiliate down here.
B:	I do a lot of work down in Waco,
B:	a lot of, I call on a lot of my business is down there.
A:	Oh really.
A:	Oh, okay.
A:	Where do you work?
A:	What is your,
B:	I sell metal fabricating equipment and tooling.
A:	Oh, okay.
B:	Tyme and Mercury and Tempco and all those people down there.
A:	Oh, okay
B:	Uh Gene
A:	So you probably work with, uh, uh,
A:	what is the boy from here?
A:	You ever work with Davis?
B:	Davis Iron?
A:	Davis Iron Work,
A:	yeah.
B:	Yeah,
B:	matter of fact I just saw them last week.
A:	Oh, okay.
A:	And, uh, what else.
B:	Are you in that part, are you in the south part of town now?
A:	Well, I live actually in Hewett.
B:	Oh, yeah.
B:	Okay.
A:	Yeah,
A:	right outside.
B:	You know Do you know Parker Machine Tool down there.
A:	So, that is where Davis Iron Works is.
A:	Uh.
B:	Bobby Parker and, uh,
A:	I don't think I have seen that one.
A:	I am sure I pass by it or something,
A:	but I am not sure.
B:	There is a place in Hewett, called,
B:	it is a new company called Prime Air.
B:	That is in Hewett. Just around the corner from Davis Iron Works.
A:	Huh. Prime Air.
B:	They make, uh, humidifiers and uh, filters for air filtration stuff for hospitals, homes, something like that.
A:	Oh, okay.
A:	Okay.
A:	Have you ever been to Marlin?
B:	Uh, yeah.
A:	I think it is Marlin or Mart.
A:	They have, uh, uh, a place, I guess that would be similar to Prime Air.
A:	It is called H G H or something like K G H or,
B:	Oh, really.
B:	Huh.
A:	I can't think of it.
A:	I can't think of the name.
B:	Huh.
A:	But,
B:	I will have to stop in there.
B:	I went, I have gone through there, uh,
B:	my oldest son goes to A and M.
A:	Oh yeah.
B:	He is working on his Master's.
B:	The Navy sent him there for his Master's. Mostly in engineering.
B:	So, once and a while we go up six there rather than take forty-five.
A:	Yeah.
B:	That is about the last time I have been through Marlin and Mart
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Oh, I don't like that drive.
A:	I make that drive sometimes
A:	we have stories out there
A:	but, uh,
B:	There is always a state trooper down there.
A:	Huh.
B:	You have got to drive careful.
A:	Oh, really
A:	I know.
B:	Between Mart and Marlin, they will nail you if you go over sixty miles an hour.
A:	Oh, goodness.
A:	They, they are bad at Hewett too. On eighty-four.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	They are real bad.
A:	That is where I got my last ticket.
A:	So, of course, I couldn't pay that on a credit card.
A:	Well, I was just wondering if you had had any experience with, um, the care of the elderly.
B:	Yes,
B:	I have.
B:	In fact, uh, just a little over, just a little less than a year ago, uh, my mother went to be with the Lord,
B:	and we cared for her the last, oh, seventeen months of her life here in the, at home. Aside from, uh, having to, uh, take her to the hospital
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, uh, you know, those times, well, she was there in the, the regular hospital.
A:	Right.
B:	And then she was diagnosed having inoperable type of cancer,
B:	and so the doctor elected to have her, uh, finish out, uh, in the hospice program.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, uh, I, as far as I'm concerned, that is far and above any nursing home, because, uh, she's around her own you know, the, the elderly parent in question is around their own family.
B:	The, uh, hospice program provides a hospital type bed. Well, it is a hospital bed, and all the oxygen, stuff and a, uh, and a visiting nurse at least every other day, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
A:	Well, that's nice.
B:	And it's all taken care of by, by, uh, Medicare, uh,
B:	and, uh, it, it's, it's really neat, uh.
B:	And I, you know, I wouldn't, I wouldn't banish, uh, my old loved one to a, to a warehouse.
A:	No.
B:	And that's, that's what I basically, uh, view a nursing home as, a warehouse,
B:	so that's,
A:	It's really sad
B:	Pardon me?
A:	It's really a sad situation.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, I think a lot of people struggle with.
A:	I,  I guess the problem is that the spouse of whoever, you know, the parent is,  doesn't always want the in-law living in the house.
B:	Oh .
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Is that right?
B:	Right.
A:	Well, that's really sad.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I know.
B:	But, uh, in this case, uh, spouse and I, uh, are, uh, we're, are, are, uh, united in this area because,  I guess her father, her grandfather and grandmother both lived with, uh, her parents, uh, their golden years too,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	so this isn't like, uh, uh, just one, one, uh, instance.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	In fact, uh, her, uh, uh, experiences were, were invaluable to me.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh, in fact, I don't know if I could have, uh, held up, uh, you know, without my wife, uh, helping in this,  this, in this case.
A:	Right.
A:	Yes.
A:	Well, I know when the, I remember being a child
A:	and my grandmother had had several strokes and things, and that we had, my parents tried to keep her in the house,
A:	and they did for a long time. I couldn't,  tell you how long, until she got, uh, where she had to have complete care,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and so ,  they couldn't, you know, keep her in the house anymore,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and it was really hard on everyone.
A:	She had to have, you know, twenty-four hour a day care.
A:	And I don't remember much about it except that there was a nursing home at that time just a block or two from our house.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And that, um, they put her there,
A:	and we all went just constantly until she died.
B:	Oh, okay.
A:	But it was very hard on everyone to see, you know, grandmother be like that,
A:	and I don't know that, you know, I don't, being so young, I don't remember why. You know, what was, why she had to go there.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Well, maybe, well, as, as you say, the care of, of grandmother or was, was just such that such mom and dad couldn't handle it.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Well, I do remember that she was, you know, totally incapable of taking care of herself in any way.
B:	Oh, boy,
B:	yeah.
A:	And that that, they couldn't, they found that they could not you know, give her the hygienic care and everything that she needed.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Well, then, then there's almost, then there's almost no, no, uh, uh, choice left to her then
A:	No,
A:	but like you say, there is a tendency for people to be abandoned, though, you know,  in the nursing home.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I do remember the other patients there, uh, being real excited when we came to see our own grandmother, because they got some interaction with someone.
B:	Right.
B:	In fact, just, uh, just, uh, sit and chat with them for five minutes and, and be interested in what they have to say regardless of what it is.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Right,
A:	right.
A:	And I guess that's hard on people to give, give up their lives.
A:	If they're busy they don't you know.
B:	Uh-huh
A:	It's easy to abandon people, because we do have the nursing homes, I guess.
B:	Right.
A:	If you can afford them.
A:	But, anyway. Well, I'm,  glad it worked out good for your family.
B:	And then, then,
B:	Oh, yeah,
B:	it did,
B:	and I was just I just praised the Lord that, that we were able to, uh, have, uh, uh,
A:	I pushed it.
B:	Okay.
A:	So what do you you in your lawn?
A:	Do you do it yourself
A:	or do you hire someone to do it?
B:	Uh, no
B:	we've been doing it ourselves for most of the time, uh, find that it's really a little more economical,
B:	and we have, oh, I find that I have the time,
B:	and I kind of enjoyed it over here in Texas.
B:	I used to live in Arizona,
B:	and it was very very frustrating, because I didn't have the watering system
B:	and it was, it was just too much work and not enough enjoyment.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But over here we get enough water you know, naturally as well have the automatic sprinklers,
B:	and so it's a lot more rewarding
A:	Yeah,
A:	right.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	so.
A:	Well, we do our own out here, uh, you know, mow it ourselves and everything,
A:	but, uh, our water supply right now is bad.
A:	We need rain badly
B:	Oh, that's right.
A:	Uh, we can water, here in Patterson, I can water on Tuesdays, Thursdays, Saturday and Sunday, four days a week.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	So.
B:	Is that enough during the hotter times of the year?
A:	It was this last summer,
A:	yeah.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh, now if it, we don't get some rain, they might limit it to not even four times, you know
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah.
A:	but, uh, yeah,
A:	we do our our, you know, mowing ourselves and everything,
A:	and I do our planting of bulbs and things where I can have some spring flowers
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and, uh,
B:	Yeah,
B:	I find that I've been doing a lot of perennial planting, which I never did before
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and it's been real enjoyable, although I didn't do any this last fall, because our past winters have been so cold, um  they'd freeze down,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and by the time they, the flowers would come back to life it was supposedly the time to pull things out for the spring and summer planting
A:	Oh.
B:	So I was getting kind of disillusioned and tired and, and spending too much money on something that was kind of more of a problem than it was rewarding,
B:	so um, I'm going to try to wait now and just do the spring and summer type plantings and see how that, you know, feels.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
A:	We have quite a few roses.
A:	I just, uh, we, in fact we just pruned them way down,
A:	and I just had to replace one of them,
A:	so I just bought that yesterday,
A:	and I'll probably go outside today and plant that.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	But, um, I like to have the roses where I can have cut flowers all year long.
B:	Yeah,
B:	those are enjoyable.
A:	I even had, uh, roses on my table for Christmas dinner which was really pretty, you know
B:	Oh, did you?
B:	Uh-huh
A:	But, um, other than the roses I don't have too many flowers.
A:	I plant gladiolas
B:	Um, those are nice.
A:	and those are always pretty,
A:	but they get so tall,
A:	and they, they bend over so fast you know.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah.
B:	I haven't done much in, in bulbs.
B:	In fact I received as a Christmas present a, a planter that had bulbs in it, that we were supposed to go ahead and water it any time and after it started to sprout put in a sunny window,
B:	and it it just grew like crazy,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but I don't have any flowers on it.
B:	I don't know how long that takes, or if there's anything I need to do differently.
A:	Um.
B:	It's just nice and green right now
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	well, is it that, one of those Amaryllis?
B:	Uh, no
A:	No,
A:	huh.
B:	I'm thinking White Narcissus or something like a like a white paper flower or so.
A:	Oh, okay.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	And, uh.
A:	Do you have a big yard?
B:	No,
B:	not really,
B:	and in Plano and most of the newer areas of Texas, uh, they have just the, the minimum square footage for lots, to where you get a little bit of a backyard,
B:	we have a pool in our backyard,
B:	and we did plan it to where we have some, some play yard left over,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but it's, it's, um, you know, very small.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But most of the houses here, if you have a pool, you don't have anything else in the backyard
A:	Yeah,
A:	right,
A:	right.
B:	that's about the size of most of them.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	So, uh I guess we're kind of fortunate.
A:	Um.
B:	Everyone looks at that, with our at our yard with kind of sense of awe, like wow, you really got, you know, some grass back there.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	Well.
A:	Well, that makes it nice.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Well, it's hot enough here in the summer time that we could have a pool,
A:	but we don't have one you know,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but they are a lot of people that do have pools around here you know
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
A:	but we just, we just have dogs and, um, and grass you know, the cement work and a little play set we made for a garden.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh, yeah.
B:	Yeah.
A:	So we do have a garden, you know.
A:	It's just a small one, you know,
A:	but we, had lots of tomatoes, and, uh, zucchini
B:	Oh.
A:	it's amazing what you can get out of a little
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	you know, it's probably about twenty by, I don't know, twenty by six, something like that,
A:	and it's amazing what you can, you know, how many plants you can plant in there
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah.
A:	but it was nice.
A:	Few cucumbers.
B:	That's one part of gardening I haven't tried yet,
B:	and I don't think this yard is a very,
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
A:	Okay.
A:	Um, I guess if I had to rate it from one to ten, I guess, I would rate it a five in the aspect that I wouldn't want everybody to have guns
A:	and I think there should be limitations of, like semiautomatics.
A:	Uh, things like that should not be just given out to anybody.
A:	In fact, you know, I can't imagine anybody having a semiautomatic for what purpose.
A:	Uh, so I guess, you know, being that I come from a hunting family I'd rather have some restrictions put on weapons but yet allow hunting rifles, uh, things that people would use for sporting type of, uh, a, activity.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Those would be fine
A:	but when you get into a, a lot of the more complex weapons, I would say yes
A:	we need to put restrictions on them
B:	Uh, that's I probably would have to agree with you pretty much all the way I think.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh, I definitely think that there, some things shouldn't be limited like, like you said, rifles and uh, hunting rifles and possible handguns for people who use them to,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Exactly,
A:	for self-protection,
A:	sure.
B:	Right.
B:	And, but I think the, I think semiautomatic weapons, people say they use them because it, for sport.
B:	But I, I personally cannot see any use for them  other than, uh, for, for, like people who dislike have some sort of crazed you know, ambition to use, have high powered weapons or something.
A:	I can't imagine that.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	To do massive amounts of killing, uh,
B:	Right.
B:	And  I mean, you can only, how much do you
A:	Yeah.
A:	The only thing that I can see is the police having it in a case where somebody is, uh, uh, you know, going to kill a massive amount of people or, uh, somebody that's escaping, that's, uh, very dangerous
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	semiautomatic would allow more rounds to be put out to hopefully catch the person and, and, uh, get him down.
B:	Right.
A:	But, uh, you know, I, I think of my family.
A:	Uh, they're very much into sporting and, uh, you know, as far as hunting and also like, uh, clay pigeons things like that.
B:	Right.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	So they have may have some shotguns.
A:	They may have other type of, uh, hunting type things,
A:	but I figured if the, if the criminals had to take a hunting gun out to kill somebody, more than likely, somebody would see it, you know what I'm saying  versus a, you know, a small handgun, uh,  that can be, you know, put right in your coat pocket
B:	Right,
B:	yeah.
B:	Yeah,
B:	that's true.
A:	and nobody would see it,
A:	but yet, you can't stop people from having, you know, a handgun in their home.
B:	Right.
A:	Even if there are small children around, there's, you know, you can't say people with small children can't have guns
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and people without small children that may have grandchildren, you know  still have these guns
B:	Yeah.
A:	but uh, I guess I, I was always taught, number one, a gun isn't a toy.
B:	Right.
B:	Right.
A:	Uh, you know, and I don't know if that makes a difference if the parent sets down to them and say this gun can kill you, you know  and don't ever play with it.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Right.
A:	Uh, so I don't know if that makes a difference or what
A:	but,
B:	Well, I think uh, in that I think that cases like that it's definitely, um, I think if you're to say okay,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Right,
B:	right.
B:	And people who, people who have them and are responsible with them are, are, are being punished
B:	and people who and they're saying that people you cannot take care of things yourself or like that you're not smart enough to teach your kids how to, how to, uh, .
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	How to use, you know, to make sure the guns are put up as something as  uh, not a toy.
B:	Right.
B:	Right
A:	Yeah.
A:	Because we had guns all over our house when we were kids
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and not that they were laying on the, uh, couch or anything like that
B:	Right.
A:	but, uh, I never had an interest in them, being in the fact that I knew that guns could kill
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and I had four brothers and never messed with any type of guns
B:	Right.
A:	and so it was kind of the idea that we knew that a gun could kill and that a gun wasn't a toy
B:	Right.
A:	and, of course we were quite young
A:	and we went through, uh, the National Rifle, uh, Club
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and so we were taught, you know, kind of at a, a good age, ten and eleven and twelve, to sit down with a kid and say okay,
A:	if you're going to learn how to shoot a gun, you're going to learn how to do it correctly
A:	and you're going to learn how to have safeguards and and know how to protect yourself
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but yet have this, training so that kids aren't you know,
A:	they have to have a certain respect for it.
B:	Right.
B:	Well I think, I mean we, I grew up in a family
B:	and, and my father had two guns
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	because he used to hunt years ago
B:	but he stopped before, really before I was old enough to remember.
A:	Sure.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But, and I knew we had the guns in the house
B:	and, the time my father was keeping them just for protection at the time
A:	Sure,
A:	yeah.
B:	but we, it was never, my brothers, sisters nor I never, I mean none of us ever thought well let's go look at the gun
B:	or let's go get the gun
B:	it was just something you knew was there
A:	Yes.
B:	and it was your father's
B:	and you, that was not something you'd go and play, played with at all
A:	Yeah.
B:	and I think maybe, uh, and that's the type of, the thing that should be, you know, stressed.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I think so
A:	and I don't know if the kids nowadays are different than what
A:	Okay
B:	So, do you have, do you have the long,
B:	I guess not, not if there's,
B:	see I was raised in New York,
B:	but I guess up there you all don't have too long of a growing season, do you?
A:	Uh, well, we probably have about three months, approximately.
B:	Do do you do your own gardening?
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Do you.
A:	We live on a,
A:	used to be a farm,
A:	but we don't farm much,
A:	we, uh, but we do have a garden.
B:	Huh. See I got mine in,
B:	well, let's see,
B:	I put in pepper plants this weekend.
A:	Oh.
A:	I wish I could be doing that
B:	Yeah.
B:	I got all my little seedlings coming up in the kitchen
B:	and, I enjoy tinkering with it, you know,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	it's pretty hot down here during the Summer,
B:	we hit, you know, a hundred, hundred and two sometimes,
A:	Right.
B:	but, you know, we don't do too much during the Summer, as far as tomatoes and stuff, like that.
A:	You almost have, to get started pretty early probably. I guess,
B:	Yeah.
B:	I can, usually I can put in, oh probably mid-March, I can put anything in the ground, you know, beets, and onions, and stuff like that.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But then I have to wait for my,
B:	tomatoes have to go in here in the next couple of weeks
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	as soon as we're, sure we're not going to have another freeze, go ahead finish it.
A:	Yeah.
A:	You've had more freezing this Winter, or this, yeah, Winter, I think.
B:	Yeah.
B:	We've, had just a few, you know, that freezes a little here and there,
A:	More bad weather.
B:	but every once in a while, we get a freeze around the middle of April,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and it's pretty tough.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Are you, do you work,
A:	or are you retired
A:	or you,
B:	No.
B:	I work, uh
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I'm only forty years old.
B:	I have to work,
A:	Uh-huh
A:	Uh, my husbands retired.
A:	But he's not a gardener.
A:	He, he, he's been helping me more,
A:	but he really isn't, uh, real crazy about gardening.
B:	Uh, I, I really enjoy it,
B:	it gives me time outdoors,
A:	Uh.
B:	and, you know, I'm a golfer,
B:	but, it gives me time outdoors, and time around my house,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and I, burned my grass off here in the last couple of days getting ready to start to the Spring season, and see if I can grow me another nice lawn,
A:	Oh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I usually have a pretty nice lawn,
B:	it's a lot of work you know,
A:	Oh yeah.
B:	but it's,
A:	But it's a pleasure to, like you said, it's good to get outside,
A:	and and I like, I like my garden too
B:	Yeah,
B:	it is.
A:	We didn't have to, we have just a small garden,
A:	but we planted corn last year too, which takes quite a bit of space
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	we, we didn't have too good luck with it,
A:	because the, uh, we had a couple of good, real good wind storms,
A:	and it really damaged the corn
B:	Oh yeah.
A:	so we didn't get too much corn, last year.
B:	We're going through that,
B:	we going through the dust storms down here now,
A:	uh, uh-huh.
B:	so, but I, uh, what I did with my garden, is I have a, a two by six frame that's five by ten.
B:	I have two of them sitting side by side
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and then I put, uh, like, a black plastic,
B:	it's really not a black plastic.
B:	They call it Wedet
A:	Oh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and I put that down,
B:	and then I put up a couple of inches of pine moss on top of that
A:	Huh.
B:	and I use a, one of those black poker hoses that actually oozes water every where
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	so I waste it up and down there a couple of times,
B:	and I only have to water about two hours a week
A:	Oh that's great.
B:	and it's pretty nice.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Especially during the Summer, it keeps everything wet, instead of wilting.
A:	Yeah.
A:	We don't, we don't usually cover ours.
A:	We did a few different times
A:	sometimes we've covered with the plastic,
A:	and other years we've tried newspapers
B:	Oh.
A:	and, uh, but we generally don't, we do our watering from our spring.
B:	Oh you have a spring,
A:	Yeah.
B:	how nice.
A:	We have an old fashioned pipe sitting, that, you know, water runs into
A:	and, my husband set up a pump that runs,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	it runs first down
A:	and then it stops,
B:	Oh that's, that's pretty nice.
A:	and when the water comes up, it comes on again,
A:	and we use that to water our garden with
A:	so,
B:	But you actually enjoy it, huh?
A:	Oh I do.
A:	I do.
B:	Do you?
A:	I love it,
A:	I'd rather be doing that, than housework
B:	I, I can imagine.
B:	You all have much trouble up there, with insects
B:	or,
A:	Uh, not a well, not a whole lot.
A:	I think our cabbages, and broccolis and that in we have more trouble with, that type of thing, with the, the,
B:	With the worms?
A:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
B:	I have quite a bit of problem down here with the squash bugs, and haven't figured out how to get rid of those yet.
A:	Uh.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Do you go more for natural, keeping them off naturally,
A:	or do you, use insecticides?
B:	Yeah,
B:	I try to,
B:	no
B:	I, uh, uh, try not to use any insecticides at all.
B:	I try not to even use insecticides on my lawn,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but, I, sometimes I can't manage.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Well, our lawn, is, is a big lawn because, because we live out in the country,
A:	and so we were not, our lawn is not perfect, you know,
A:	it's just the it's just a lawn
B:	Yeah.
B:	Well, mine's full of dandelions, now,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	so,
A:	Do you eat any of them?
B:	No,
B:	I never have.
B:	I don't know how to prepare them.
A:	Oh, did, well, did, does your wife ever make, uh, bake in a hot bacon dressing, like for, salad?
B:	No.
B:	Huh-uh.
A:	Oh it's delicious
A:	and it goes real good on dandelions.
B:	Really.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Huh.
B:	I've never eaten dandelions
B:	now I've tried dandelion wine
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but I've never tried any dandelions just to eat.
A:	use the greens, if you get them when they're young and tender, you know, before they have grown too, too tall,
B:	Yeah.
A:	because they do get a little stringy.
B:	All right.
A:	But, uh, they're kind of fun to, to try,
B:	Yeah.
A:	get a, get a few
A:	and then throw them in with the rest of your salad sometimes.
B:	I'll try that.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
B:	I sure will
A:	Uh, but I've been cutting our grass too lately because my husband's back,
A:	and he's been having trouble with
A:	so, wasn't allowed to run a lawn mower,
B:	Oh, Oh.
A:	so, it takes about four hours to cut our grass.
B:	Yow.
A:	And, we have, we have hills.
A:	I'm afraid of the hills
A:	but, I'm getting on to it,
B:	So you all are into, so you all are into the lawn, big time, huh.
A:	I just pretend they're not there,
A:	and I just go ahead and do it
A:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I only get, well, I guess I got
B:	my, my whole section of my house is probably a tenth of an acre
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	then I have a pretty nice backyard,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and you know, I've got enough room to throw horseshoes. You know, couple of other ,
A:	Oh, that's great.
A:	great.
A:	That's, a lot of people don't have that much space even.
B:	No,
B:	and it's nice.
B:	I'm just inside the city limits,
B:	I'm probably a mile, mile and a half inside the city limits,
B:	and I'm only a mile, and a half from work.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	So you have all the conveniences of, a city,
B:	Yeah.
B:	It's pretty nice.
A:	yeah,
A:	and, and the country also.
B:	I have the room outside I need,
B:	and I don't really have all the room in the house I need
B:	but,
A:	Well, you never have enough room do you think. Especially if your into any hobbies or anything.
B:	No.
B:	I have a question to ask you about gardening though.
B:	You know, those,
B:	what are they called,
B:	the, they called, uh, rolly polly bugs,
B:	that's what my son calls them anyway.
A:	Rolly Polly what?
B:	Rolly Polly bugs.
B:	The ones that roll up in a ball.
B:	I don't know what they're called.
A:	Is it a bug, You mean?
B:	They look like they've got,
B:	Yeah.
A:	A worm?
B:	Yeah.
A:	A cutworm?
B:	No.
A:	Not a grub worm?
B:	It's not like a,
B:	no.
B:	You find them under bricks and all that stuff, where it's moist,
B:	and if, if you touch them, they roll up in a ball.
A:	Oh.
B:	I don't know what they call them.
B:	But I'm plagued with those things,
A:	Uh.
B:	and I haven't figured out,
B:	I even called the nursery,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	I'm trying to think of what they are, what kind, they could be.
B:	I, I don't know.
A:	You find them under bricks usually, and that.
B:	Yeah,
B:	under bricks, or under wood,
B:	or you know, if you leave a piece of newspaper in the yard too long, they get in there.
B:	They usually come out at night,
B:	but, you can find them during the daytime if you pick something up that's been laying around,
A:	They're not a slug.
B:	No.
A:	Not a,
B:	A slug is actually kind of slimy
A:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
B:	and these are just,
B:	he plays with them all time,
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Well, having been there not too long ago, and my wife having only recently completed a doctorate, I'm fairly full of it, of it myself.
A:	Um.
B:	Uh, the main point that I have about choosing where you want to go to school, is that, you have to early on define what it is you want to do or at least what area you want to be in.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Uh, I had the unpleasant experience of going through several schools that were very specialized.
B:	I went through a number of them, uh, undergraduate schools, before I found a, a good school that was more general, uh, to give me time to make up my mind.
A:	Um.
A:	Oh, that's interesting.
A:	I went to a, a liberal arts school, actually, at first,
A:	and you weren't really even, um, they didn't expect you to choose any sort of major or anything at all until you were in your second year,
A:	and then you, you know, you had, I think you had to pick it, by, by, by the end of the second you had to pick some sort of major,
A:	but until then they didn't sort of force you.
A:	They, they sort of forced you to run around taking classes in everything until then. Certain requirements,
A:	so that, so that you had to sort of get a general feel for everything,
A:	so it wasn't that specialized.
A:	So that,
B:	That's wonderful.
B:	I'm a great proponent of liberal arts education, for anybody.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Uh, being an engineer now, I believe in it even more strongly than I did before.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	I was just on a committee recently, actually sponsored by, uh, the American Association for the Advancement of Science, trying to sort of, you know, where, where they were just trying to figure out how to fit science and liberal arts together, you know, because there are people who are getting just wonderful science educations and not getting enough liberal arts,
A:	and then the other way around as well,
A:	people are getting pure technical science educations and not getting very good liberal arts sorts of issues.
A:	So,
B:	Well, thus far it's working to my advantage.
B:	Uh, the great gap historically has, with engineers, has been while they may have all this technical information, they have no way of imparting it to, except to another engineer.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And I have the ability to listen to them and then translate that into something that nonengineers can understand.
A:	Well, that must be helpful.
B:	Well, it's,  a lot of fun, at the moment.
A:	That could be very helpful .
A:	Yeah,
A:	well, I figure that, that, that's probably the thing I would most tell any parent, you know, to tell their kids, I think, probably
A:	make sure the kid goes to a school where they get sort of a general education
A:	and save specialization, I guess, for graduate school, unless they're sure they want, early on they want to do something like engineering or something.
A:	Or they can,
B:	Even at that, I have a son, that, who's only nine at the moment.
B:	But I see him very rapidly becoming the engineering personality,
B:	and, uh, if he decides to pursue that, I'm going to insist that he spend two years at a liberal arts college, before I'll even let him go to an engineering college.
A:	Um.
B:	And, yes,
B:	that'll add one year to his education experience.
A:	Yeah,
A:	but, but that's a good idea.
A:	Well, where I am right now,
A:	actually I'm at the University of Rochester,
A:	and that's a pretty good engineering school, I think.
A:	I think we do some  they have pretty good engineering here.
B:	Yes,
B:	it is.
A:	They also have a fairly large liberal arts college as well. A sort of, a separate, you know, arts and sciences college.
A:	Um, and I believe the engineers are sort of required to take classes in, in everything,
A:	and I know people, I do, uh, I do work in language processing,
A:	and, and, and at least one person who's in my field started off as an engineer, started off as an an electrical engineer student, and then switched over at some point into language processing, because he found that he enjoyed it more.
A:	So they do force them,
A:	people are forced to sort of take all different kinds of classes here, which I think is wonderful.
B:	Oh, I agree.
B:	Uh, I have the experience, uh,
B:	the last school that I went to was Mississippi State University which is historically an engineering and agricultural school.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Right.
B:	Uh, the typical land grant university,
B:	every state's got one.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Anyway, while it has both engineering and liberal arts, the engineering students tend to cluster together.
A:	Yeah.
B:	You know, they're in classes together, even when they're outside of the engineering department.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And they don't learn the communications,
B:	they don't learn the thought processes of other fields of, of endeavor.
A:	Um.
B:	It's, you know, it, that's kind of like if I were king for a day, and got to, and got to make one rule. My rule would be, no one could get out of high school without an entire year of philosophy.
A:	Um, uh-huh.
A:	That would,  be very good actually.
B:	And it's,  that's not even true in our colleges.
A:	Right,
A:	you, you don't need any philosophy at all in school.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Or
A:	yeah,
A:	or, or, or, or some other thought provoking area, you know.
A:	Very true.
A:	We had, uh, when I went to undergraduate, we had uh,
A:	went to Brandeis,
A:	don't know if you know of it or not, uh,
A:	we had, uh, uh, a requirement freshman year of just Humanities.
A:	Then you were given a choice of, um, you know,
A:	there were ten or twelve, or whatever, or fifteen different courses that you could take,
A:	but they all centered, they all came out of Philosophy, English, and Literature departments,
A:	and they were, they were, they were a set of assigned readings everybody had to read, you know for,
A:	so the first year Humanities courses everyone had to read the Iliad an, and so forth,
B:	Right.
A:	and what they did do, was they all approached it from, from very different,
A:	so that you could have one class in the philosophy of something, that the philosophy of Greek mythology or something that actually approached this, or, um, one literature, you know, or a, a literature course or, just all sorts of different perspectives on it,
A:	and people got to pick and choose,
A:	but, but by the end, everyone had a good sample of, of, of, sort of how to think about these things nonscientifically, you know,
A:	and, uh, and that sort of forced them.
A:	But I believe that, that, that you, one of the, one of the best things to do, at least for me in school was, was, I was sort of forced to take lots of different kinds of courses.
A:	Um, I was forced to take, I think you know, some sort of art history course,
A:	and we all grumbled about it at first,
A:	but then, afterward, we all wound up taking extra art history classes, because it just seemed like something, something we didn't totally know nothing about, but just enjoyed very much doing,  and something I would never would have done if, if I wasn't forced to take it.
B:	Yes, I  I remember that experience
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	that and, uh, extra music classes.
A:	Yes.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	And that, and that really is something that, that I notice,
A:	like I talk to a lot of my friends at school that are more specialized,
A:	and they don't have that.
A:	They just, you know, they went in and took their courses that they were expected to take,
A:	and that was all.
A:	They never had some of the more fun classes, I guess .
A:	I feel a little more worldly now
B:	Well, that will continue to grow even as you go beyond graduate school.
A:	Yes,
A:	I'm, I'm, I'm hoping, I'm hoping.
B:	Have, have you gone straight through?
A:	Yes,
A:	I, I graduated, um, college in eighty-seven,
A:	and I just went straight through.
A:	Um, I'm finishing up next year.
A:	So, yeah,
A:	I didn't take any break or anything yet.
A:	I've been trying actually, in graduate school, I've been trying to do the same thing, take courses, completely outside my area,
A:	and I'm finding in graduate school it's a lot harder, because, uh, I just don't have the time any more to sort of sit in a course, that I'm not getting graded for.
A:	Whereas before I would just sign up for credit for it, now I can't sign up for an art history course for credit necessarily.
A:	So I have to try and go myself,
A:	and I went for like two or three weeks and realized, not enough time for the work unfortunately.
B:	That's true.
B:	Are you pursuing a Master's or a Doctorate?
A:	I'm pursuing a Doctorate in Psychology.
A:	So, I'm just, wind up spending a lot of time doing that instead.
A:	Uh, what else.
A:	I, I think I,
B:	Well, let me, let me encourage you to stop and experience life along the way.
A:	Oh.
B:	I, I first enrolled in college in nineteen sixty-six.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh, six years, and a, and a war later, uh, I got a degree, an undergraduate degree.
B:	And then fifteen years after that, I got the first of a set of master's degrees
B:	and four years after that I got another master's degree.
A:	Um. You had real world experience in the middle there.
B:	Oh, yes.
A:	And that helped, you think?
A:	Or that was,
B:	It, it certainly makes acceptance of different ideas a lot easier.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Um. Yeah,
A:	I'm getting some of that.
A:	Um, I have, I have sort of some, work experience .
A:	My wife is not an academic at all.
A:	My wife is sort of in the real world,
A:	and so I sort of hinge halfway out in the real world
A:	and I, getting, you know, real world .
A:	Especially she works in, uh, uh, she works in the, she works for a temporary agency,
A:	and I never would have had,
A:	she's the office supervisor,
A:	I never would have had any, I've, I've learned much just sort of by watching her and her, and her business as well.
A:	So yeah,
A:	so I, I can, I can see where that might be a,
B:	Well, vicarious learning is a wonderful thing.
A:	Yeah
B:	It certainly means that we don't have to experience everything,
B:	but experience is a wonderful, teacher also.
A:	That's my,
A:	oh yeah.
A:	Yeah,
A:	agreed,
A:	agreed.
A:	Well, I'll, I'll take that, I'll take that and think that through a little bit. Uh.
B:	My wife, as I may have mentioned, just finished a doctorate a couple of years ago.
A:	Yes.
B:	and she pursued her education along the lines that I did with lots of break in between.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And she feels reasonably comfortable teaching now.
B:	She has an awful lot of experience to draw on.
B:	No longer
A:	Okay.
B:	Well, I take it since you selected this topic that you have children.
A:	No,
A:	I don't,
B:	You don't?
A:	but I have nine younger brothers and sisters.
B:	My goodness.
B:	So. Well, I have two daughters
B:	and, um, they're past this, they've been latchkey children for a while,
B:	and they're almost where I can start saying they're, you know, young adults,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	so I don't have to worry about child care too much anymore.
B:	Um, we're supposed to discuss what criteria we would ask, or expect.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	I would assume it's, you know, if you were looking for a day-care center or something like that.
B:	Well, if I were
A:	Or probably even baby-sitters would be the same thing.
B:	Exactly.
B:	Exactly.
B:	Um, I think my, my top priority would be that it would be someone who would be responsible and someone that would actually like children.
A:	Yes,
A:	I would think someone older
A:	and I would want to know if they've had any past experience with children.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And I think that varies.
B:	I think a lot of your criteria vary with the age of your child.
A:	Yes,
A:	that's true also.
B:	Um, you know, it's, it's, once they get to a certain age it's almost more important that it's someone that can entertain your child as opposed to someone who's, you know, really, really qualified per se.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Um, with a, with a baby, definitely have to be someone who knows how to handle a baby and would know how to respond to an emergency.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So,
A:	Well, um, I did a lot of baby-sitting when I was younger.
A:	I'm twenty-two now
A:	and I did most of my baby-sitting when I was between the ages of thirteen and sixteen.
A:	But, um, the only thing people ever asked me,
A:	well, of course, they knew I came from a family with younger kids,
A:	but they really didn't ask me if I was used to children or not.
A:	The only other thing they asked me is what I would expect in pay.
B:	Oh, uh-huh,
B:	uh-huh.
A:	You know, and, um, I was pretty surprised because if I had a child and someone, you know, I would want to know, I personally would ask for people that that person has baby-sit for before.
B:	Well, I, my experience, I baby-sat a lot also at, when I grew up
B:	and, um, coming from, you know, that background and the background as a parent now, I think the reason that people don't ask a whole lot of questions is a, a lot of times baby-sitters,
B:	I know I did this with my children,
B:	it's, you get somebody where you kind of know the family already.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And that gives you so much basic knowledge that you don't ask a whole lot of questions.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	because I had three younger brothers and sisters myself
B:	so they, they thought, okay,
B:	she knows how to, how to treat children.
A:	Yes.
A:	Well, see when, um, I first got my my first baby-sitting job was pretty strange.
A:	Um, this lady saw us at church
A:	and she was a you know, she was a younger lady.
A:	She didn't really know my mom.
A:	She knew my mom by name
A:	and that was it.
A:	And, um, she knew that I was one of the oldest girls in my family
A:	so she just asked my mom if I could baby-sit.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	uh-huh.
A:	You know, she really didn't know my name or anything, you know,
A:	I thought that was pretty strange.
A:	You know, and she had two children.
A:	One was still in diapers when I started baby-sitting.
B:	Wow.
A:	So, um, she pretty much, you know, just assumed that I would know, you know, how to handle them.
A:	So, I you know, I enjoy kids
A:	and I get along with them very well
A:	so there's no problem.
A:	But, uh, with today's world and the kids today, uh, there's no way, I can't say that I would just ask someone, you know, that I didn't know like that to baby-sit.
B:	Oh, I agree with you,
B:	but there again she, you know, she knew, knew of your family,
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	that's true.
B:	and she, and she met in a safe setting, such as church.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So she was going on those two instincts.
B:	Just the same I know myself,
B:	I never,
B:	and I was very very protective on who baby-sat my children.
A:	Oh, I would be too
B:	And, and in it really shocked me
B:	because just about six months ago someone came to my front door, rang the doorbell.
B:	She had just moved in the neighborhood.
B:	She had her daughter with her,
B:	and the daughter was, oh, about a second grader.
B:	And she was actively looking for people who would baby-sit her child.
A:	Oh, my.
B:	And I thought, well she doesn't know me or my children from anything.
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	And it was, I was almost more reluctant of letting my older children go baby-sit for her because I didn't know her then she was reluctant of letting strangers into her house.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	yes.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So, I mean people are so different.
A:	Oh, I know.
A:	Um, well, I I, obviously you've never had to look for a day care or anything.
B:	Well, I did, I did have, um, my, my child, uh, in a day care for just a short time when my oldest was about two and a half
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and I worked just a part-time job
B:	and, uh, in, in those situations, um, what I did is I'd, I went in
B:	and, you know, I made a few phone calls,
B:	I went in and visited.
B:	I asked questions such as how they would discipline a child.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Um, that was a concern with me.
B:	Um, you know, you, you learn a lot by going in there
B:	and they they explain to you, you know, what their day consists of and what their general rules are,
B:	and, um, that's, you know, that's as much as I know.
B:	You probably could get really good feedback from a lot of other working mothers you know, that have done this over and over again.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Well,
B:	But I,
B:	go ahead.
A:	How did you stumble upon the day-care center?
A:	Did you just look it up in a phone book
A:	or what was it?
B:	Um, I think lots of people, I, I think I went by location for one thing.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I think most people do that.
B:	I think you start out with the criteria of, you know, do I know of anything
B:	or do I know anyone who has their child in a day care
B:	and,
A:	Yeah,
A:	there is , I would say most people would probably go by word of mouth.
B:	Right.
B:	Right.
B:	And then, you know, I mean, even at that you have to consider the logistics of it.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	You know, I mean, you're not going to take your child south of town if you work north. even if that's the best one in the whole wide world
A:	Yes,
A:	exactly.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So there, there are just so many considerations.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Then again, did, um, money come into play with it at all?
B:	Oh, money is always a factor in my life, definitely.
B:	I've never, you know, I've never had the luxury of not having that be a factor. Um, even in something as important as day care.
B:	I know if I didn't have that stipulation, I would have done things differently you know.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Um, Montessori school would be something that I would have pursued,
B:	but that's always a little bit more expensive than what I could look at.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Um, and I was very very fortunate in that I didn't have to do that on a full-time basis.
A:	Yes.
B:	So, and, and then when you get, you know, when you get into the full-time basis day care,
A:	Good morning.
B:	Hi.
A:	My name is Jean.
B:	I'm Tina.
A:	Oh, where you from Tina?
B:	I live in Garland, Texas.
A:	Oh, Garland, Texas,
A:	I'm in Pennsylvania.
B:	Oh, my lands, you're the farthest person I've ever talked to.
A:	Really?
B:	Yeah.
A:	Do you work for Texas Instruments?
B:	My husband does.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Probably most people you talk to do, huh?
A:	Most of them do.
A:	Now, I don't have anybody that works for T I,
A:	but, uh my son works for a computer company, the National Institute of something,
B:	Huh.
A:	I don't know what
B:	I see,
B:	well that's neat.
A:	So, I guess we're supposed to talk about foods today.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I guess you have to push one, though.
A:	Yes,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	Okay.
A:	You ready?
B:	Yeah.
A:	Okay.
A:	Uh, foods like you would for a dinner party or something like that.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I guess so,
B:	it may be interesting, because probably here in Texas, we may eat a little differently than you do up there
A:	Well, I don't know,
A:	my brother lives down East of us down there,
A:	and I don't think they ate all that much different
B:	Oh, really.
A:	Uh, I think as long as you plan your basic foods,
A:	course, for a dinner party, you fancy things up a little bit more.
B:	Yeah,
B:	that's true.
A:	Uh.
B:	Well, uh, the thing that I found interesting,
B:	my husband and I lived up in Washington State for awhile
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	and up there, of course they ate a lot of sea food, and that kind of thing,
A:	Oh, uh-huh.
B:	and down here, sea food is pretty expensive, because, you have to ship it a long way to get it
A:	Right.
A:	Yeah,
A:	and it's not as good as if it's fresh.
B:	Right,
B:	and, and, uh, and, but here, we eat a lot of like Mexican foods,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, um, up there there was no, no place that we went tasted like real Mexican food to me.
A:	Is that right?
B:	Yeah,
B:	it tasted like they were trying to do the best they could,
B:	but it just, didn't taste right.
A:	Yeah,
A:	well, they probably were trying to do the best they could.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
B:	and, uh, down here, we eat a lot more fried foods, I think.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Like chicken fried steak, is a real big thing.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Up there, uh, it was hardly ever heard of
B:	and, we drink ice tea with every meal,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and up there hardly anyone drank ice tea
A:	Yeah,
A:	well they do in the summertime,
A:	I think that tea is big in the summertime mostly.
B:	Really?
B:	Yeah.
A:	Of course, you have warmer weather most of the time.
B:	Right.
A:	So, uh,
B:	Yeah,
B:	it never gets real cold.
A:	Yeah.
A:	So, I,
B:	Yeah,
B:	but when, when we have a dinner party around here, I think a lot of the time a Mexican menu is something real popular.
A:	Is that right?
B:	Yeah.
B:	I know that, um, I do a lot of planning with our church,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and a lot of the times when we get together, well everybody will bring a Mexican dish
B:	or. And Italian food is real big too.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	More like covered dishes for those type of dinners.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
B:	How about you,
B:	what is real popular up there?
A:	Well, I don't know,
A:	just about anything
B:	Oh, really.
A:	Yeah,
A:	we, we really, uh, use most anything.
A:	I, uh, I think like parties and that though are,
A:	well, like we had a dinner party here, here not too long ago with a mystery dinner party
B:	Oh.
A:	But, basically, we tried, you know, included all the basic, uh, foods that you are supposed to have in a meal .
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Your, uh, bread family and your,
A:	or least what it used to be the regular menu was followed and , ham and bake potatoes, uh,
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	uh, something from each, each area that you're supposed to choose from.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	you know they been advertising that
A:	and, we've really been enjoying those, uh, meals.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Well, that's good.
A:	They have a lot of vegetable to them,
A:	and, uh, they really are very good.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	right.
B:	Oh, yes.
B:	I, I love that kind of cooking.
B:	My, uh, unfortunately, I am married to a man and have two children that eat about four things
A:	Is he a meat and potato person?
B:	Right.
B:	They.
A:	Well, all our family is, is gone.
A:	They are out on their own.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh. It, it's much different
B:	That probably makes it easier,
B:	but.
A:	and, uh.
B:	Yeah.
B:	We find ourselves eating a lot of macaroni and cheese
B:	and, uh, and of course ,
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
A:	Well, my husband didn't like that,
A:	so we, us kids,
A:	we had five children
A:	and we ate that when he, he wasn't going to be home for supper,
B:	Right.
A:	that's what we had
B:	Yeah,
B:	well, that's pretty much what we do,
B:	if dad's not coming home, we have macaroni and cheese, or something.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But, they like, uh, spaghetti.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	You know, that's one meal, I can fix
A:	Uh, yeah.
B:	and the whole family eats.
B:	But, uh, there are several things that,
B:	well as a matter of fact, I keep chicken nuggets handy all the time, because.
A:	Oh, those always go good.
B:	Yeah,
B:	the children love them,
A:	Yeah.
B:	and, uh, they are real easy to cook
B:	and, that way, whatever meat we have, if they don't like it, well,
A:	Yeah.
B:	and my girls don't like beef,
B:	I, don't know,
A:	Oh really.
A:	Well maybe. that's good the way, way the things are going.
B:	I guess,
B:	Well, yeah,
B:	it could be, they don't,
B:	I think it's the texture of it,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but it takes more chewing
A:	Right.
A:	Children usually they like the ham and the hamburgers, and that,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and it is easier to chew.
B:	Right.
B:	Right.
B:	So they're not too much into beef.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	My husband and I eat more beef than we should,
B:	but at least we keep our chicken nuggets handy for them
A:	Right.
A:	We don't really have, uh, you know, entertain too much.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I don't know if you do or not,
A:	but we, we don't a whole lot,
A:	we're more, once in a while, but mostly family, activities.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Well, most of the entertaining we do is church associated.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	We have a real tiny little house,
B:	we don't have room really, to have people here.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	But, we do get together for fellowships at our church,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, my husband and I do a lot of the planning in that.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And,
A:	Well that's good.
B:	Yeah,
B:	it is
B:	and it's fun to, uh,
B:	I like just having a pot luck meal where everyone brings their favorite dish.
A:	Yeah,
A:	we do a lot of that take , things to church
B:	Yeah.
A:	and our homemakers meet at the church also,
A:	and, uh, that's what we do mostly, most of the time for that.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
A:	So, you don't really include any certain food groups,
A:	you just bring, what you like
B:	Right.
B:	That's right
A:	Sometimes you have all desserts,
A:	sometimes, you have all vegetables
B:	Yeah
B:	Yeah,
B:	that's true,
B:	that's the only problem with just letting you bring whatever, you, uh, like best.
A:	Yeah.
A:	But, it doesn't happen very often,
A:	usually you get a pretty wide variety
A:	and you can, you can , have pretty good meals, from one of those.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
B:	I remember one time we had a progressive dinner.
A:	Oh, those are fun.
B:	It's the only time that ever.
B:	Yeah
B:	they are.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But it's the only time I can remember that,
B:	I can't remember what food it was
B:	I, it might have been the main dish that hardly anyone showed up with.
B:	Several people were supposed to bring, you know, each, like, uh, a, an appetizer, and a main dish and a dessert.
A:	Uh, uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And we had tons of desserts and tons of appetizers
B:	and, but when we came to the main, main dish plate, there was only like two or three
A:	Oh, uh-huh
A:	, Oh.
A:	Was there enough to go around?
B:	Well, not really,
B:	you know we all took real tiny little portions, and, uh, were kind of angry with whoever it was,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	we were not sure who didn't show up with the food
A:	Yeah,
A:	that's kind of irresponsible and does upset you, because they are grown adults usually
B:	Yes.
A:	and you know they know better.
B:	Right.
A:	Even if they can't do it, they can always maybe get somebody else to cook .
B:	Right.
B:	Either, either go ahead and fix your dish
B:	or call someone that can.
A:	Right.
A:	Right.
B:	I know it.
B:	Well, that sounds neat,
B:	I can't, uh, believe you're so far away,
B:	but you sound so close.
A:	They said that we could share, we share, a recipe
B:	It sounds like you're here in Dallas.
A:	but, I'm up at my daughter's,
A:	I don't even have any of my recipes with me.
B:	Oh.
A:	Uh, you know ,
B:	I don't know if I have anything handy,
B:	we were just about, we were getting ready to go swimming,
A:	Oh.
B:	and we're waiting on my sister.
A:	Oh, great.
B:	Cara, hold on just a second another person in the
B:	As a matter of fact, my, little one is hollering
A:	They are ready to go.
A:	Well, we probably, have we talked long enough
A:	I,
B:	I think it probably has been.
A:	Okay,
A:	so I'll let,
B:	So, I've enjoyed talking to you.
A:	Oh, same here.
A:	You have a good day.
B:	Thank you.
B:	Thanks for calling.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Bye-bye.
A:	Bye-bye.
A:	Uh, well, let's see.
B:	How many,
B:	you said yours are all,
B:	I mean, that sounds like an army.
A:	Five.
B:	Oh, lord.
B:	That is an army,
B:	I came from a family of six,
B:	and I have only got two,
B:	and they are, one ...
A:	Well any number is nice, let me tell you.
B:	Well, I kind of decided that single, single children that, that, that's not parenting,
B:	that's a hobby.
A:	Yeah.
B:	But,
A:	It's not as fair to the children either, I do not think.
B:	Well, do not tell that to all my friends.
B:	They are into quality time.
A:	Oh.
B:	I am into getting through the day.
A:	Yeah,
A:	but sometimes you can hurt them by having too much quality time too.
B:	sounds as if speaker B is washing Well I, I, I can spot a kid who really, you know, whose parents spend every, quality time with them, you know, outside of the work day.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And when I take care of some people's kids, you know,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	when they, when they have teachers' holidays, and that kind of stuff, I will take my friends' kids, that are usually in day care,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and you can spot them, because they have no idea how to hang out and mess around.
A:	You can tell.
A:	How to just entertain themselves.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah.
B:	Really.
A:	It's a problem for any child
A:	and you take one that's used to being, uh, busy being, having something to do all the time, it makes a big difference.
B:	It's not a problem for my two,
B:	they are only eighteen months apart
A:	uh, keeps you busy.
B:	They can find things to do and mess around, and plot and scheme and everything else.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Well, that's great.
B:	You, did all five of yours complete college?
A:	No,
A:	our last daughter, she did not want to go to school.
A:	She's, uh, but she's married now,
A:	they built a home just a couple miles from us.
A:	And,
B:	Well, how did you go about selecting a college, then?
A:	Well, we did not do it right all the time
A:	With our first boy, we persuaded him to start here,
A:	and I do not always think you should try to make them stay closer to home.
A:	I think the main thing is to, uh, right now, I think the main thing is to look at what they are interested in. Uh, and take what they are interested in,
A:	and then, then start looking for schools.
B:	Do you think that what they say that they are interested in is, at eighteen is going to be what they are ultimately ultimately graduating at.
A:	No,
A:	not necessarily.
A:	But, Mike, our oldest boy, I think he would have.
A:	He wanted to go to Embrey Riddle
A:	and we talked him into going local here first.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And he only went a few months and then transferred to Pittsburgh.
A:	He went to aeronautical, uh, oh, just learning to work on engines and that.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh, it has to do with airplanes and everything, which is what his whole life is
A:	And I really wish we would have let him go where he wanted to go originally.
A:	And he would probably be flying, is what he would be doing.
A:	Uh, but, but right now, of course, he's, he's working for Pratt and Whitney in Connecticut
A:	and they build and rebuild non jet engines.
B:	How about the other four, other three who went?
A:	Uh, the other ones, uh, the second one, she chose, we let her go where she wanted to, uh,
A:	we did not want her to go,
A:	but she went to Erie, to Gannan University. Uh, or Gannan College,
A:	I am not sure which it is,
A:	college, I guess.
A:	Uh, she went there two years
A:	and it was more expensive
A:	and she soon realized, you know,
A:	even though she did not like Clarion, she came back and finished at Clarion. Because, it, uh, saved her quite a bit of money
A:	and she got really the same basic education that she wanted.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And our other two boys, they went to Clarion also. And, uh, did very well there.
A:	And they have all really got, uh, they have all really got really good jobs.
A:	And, uh,
B:	When they were, like in junior high and high school, I mean, had they, did they have an idea that they were definitely going to go to college and,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh, yeah,
A:	they kind of had that,
A:	they just expected to go.
A:	Daphne never went,
A:	she always said she would never go to college.
A:	She said, I, I always thought she would change her mind, you know,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but she did not.
A:	And there's nothing wrong with that, you know, if,
A:	college is not for everybody.
B:	Uh.
A:	But, uh, it, it does make a difference in your wage income.
A:	I think it's what they want out of life,
A:	because if they get an education and are willing to go where the jobs are, they can make a, you know, a much better income.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Like my kids, they are all making more than my husband was making when he retired from the state.
A:	You know, that boggles,  my mind.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I was,  I was making more than, I was making three times what my father was making, as an executive in the insurance industry, when he retired.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
A:	Okay,
A:	did you go to college?
B:	Yeah,
A:	You did.
A:	See it makes a difference.
B:	I went, uh, four years to undergrad at University of Nebraska at Lincoln, because Lincoln is where, where my parents live.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And there really, there really was not a choice,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I mean the finances, uh, dictated that you had to go there.
A:	Uh. Uh-huh.
B:	I kind of,
B:	I am not going to say I resent it,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but I was, well you know, one of the national merit scholarship qualifying and, you know, one of the Rhodes Scholars kids, and the whole bit, uh,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	my parents did not even discuss with me going to college out of state, or anyplace else,
A:	Some place else.
B:	and I just knew that the finances, you know, would not support it.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	If I had known how, not, I am not going to say easy, but how much less difficult than I thought it would be to get a, uh, scholarship, to go anyplace else, I think that I would definitely, you know, have gone
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Now when I finished there, then I got a scholarship to go the Harvard University in Boston.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And that was, uh, I think that was probably one of the best things that had ever happened,
B:	I mean I was, taken out of my element, you know, the homogeny midwest, which is a lovely place to grow up, and put into someplace else where, people thought differently, looked differently, sounded differently, you know, different life style.
A:	That's great.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Different life styles,
A:	yes,
A:	yes.
B:	And I think it was probably one of the best things that ever happened to me.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Now my kids, I keep saying that, uh, you know, I would like them to go to the best school that they possibly could.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And I do not know, you know, what the realities, you know, is going to look like, you know,
B:	we are putting money away already.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh, but I really think it's important to put these children someplace where, in addition to, you know, them getting an education, they really need a, you know, a socialization away from what they are raised in. Especially if you lived a pretty insular community
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, An upper class suburb of Dallas, let me tell you, It's very different.
A:	Right.
A:	It's quite a bit different.
A:	See that's the way we are,
A:	we are more of a rural type of an area
A:	and it does make a difference.
A:	I, they say, you should not look at the expense of the college when you are looking.
B:	You should not.
A:	Yeah,
A:	not really.
A:	Because, they say that a lot of times you get more help, with a more expensive college.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Oh, yeah.
A:	And so, in the long run, if it's really what they want, you know, they are better off.
A:	Now our children all pretty much borrowed for their school.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh, we, we did all we could,
A:	but they pretty much had to borrow a lot of their money to go.
A:	They suggested some sort of a recipe, uh, for, uh, company, for entertaining.
A:	Did you have anything in mind that, uh, you'd like to share?
B:	Well, I, uh, just had a Christmas Around The World party the other night and had some hors d'oeuvres.
A:	Ooh.
A:	Oh.
B:	And I fixed, uh, a crab meat spread that is real good and real easy.
A:	Ooh, that sounds good.
A:	What,
B:	It's, uh, it's like, uh, eight ounces of cream cheese softened,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and you mix it with one tablespoon onion juice and one tablespoon lemon juice, one tablespoon worcester sauce and mix it and spread it out onto a plate.
B:	And,
A:	One tablespoon of worcester?
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Okay.
B:	And then you take and, uh, cover that with drained crab meat mixed with one of the small bottles of chili sauce and spread it over the top and spread it on Triscuits crackers.
A:	Oh, that,
B:	And that always goes over real well
B:	and it's real easy.
A:	How much chili sauce did you say?
B:	It's one of the small bottles.
A:	Like eight,
B:	I don't think, uh,
A:	Not eight ounces.
A:	That would be a lot.
B:	Well, it's about eight ounces.
A:	Is it?
B:	It, it,
B:	uh-huh.
A:	Okay,
A:	this would make a lot, right?
B:	Yeah,
B:	it would probably make,
B:	well, it doesn't make quite as much as you think,
B:	but, yeah,
B:	spread it out because you keep the cream cheese kind of thin.
A:	And how much crab meat did you use?
B:	One tin. Of the flake.
A:	One, One can of flake.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	And drain it real good.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Oh, okay.
A:	Have you ever used the, uh, imitation, yet?
B:	Yes,
B:	I have.
B:	I used it, uh, last Christmastime.
B:	Uh, what did I put it in?
B:	I think I just served it by itself.
B:	There's like a little tidbit with the sauce to dip it into and stuff.
A:	Ooh, that sounds,
A:	I've tried it
A:	and then I have it here on hand for about a week
A:	and then all of a sudden it dawned on me,
A:	wait, is this totally imitation
A:	and then I found out,
A:	I went back to the store
A:	and they said it is a fish product.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	uh-huh.
A:	So, therefore, you really don't have a very long life, you know once you buy it.
B:	Right.
B:	Right.
A:	I thought, so, you know, they should put some directions on some of these new things they're making that you really don't know what the shelf life is.
B:	That's very true.
A:	You know.
B:	Very true.
B:	I had bought a cheesecake, uh,
B:	and they very nicely put onto the box that it may be re frozen, which I felt was real nice.
A:	Oh, that's a good idea.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Whose was that?
B:	It, uh, was, uh, Lawry's, I believe, or Lawler's.
B:	And I got it,
B:	do you have a Sam's Wholesale Warehouse up there?
B:	It's real,
A:	Uh, Sam's,
A:	right,
A:	right.
B:	Yeah,
B:	okay,
B:	that's where I picked it up.
B:	It comes out of Chicago
B:	and they're very good cheesecakes.
A:	Oh.
A:	Oh, that sounds good
B:	Yeah.
A:	because that's great.
A:	That must be the ones that look like they're packaged for a restaurant.
B:	Yes,
B:	yes.
A:	Okay,
A:	I, I've,
B:	And they have, and they have the little papers between them.
A:	Right.
A:	Oh, hey, that sounds,
B:	And I think they're, what, about nine dollars and something.
A:	Right.
A:	And it's something good to have on hand, too.
A:	It's frozen in the first place, right?
B:	Yes.
B:	Yes.
B:	Yes.
A:	So, you can, uh,
A:	it is frozen, isn't it?
B:	Yes,
B:	it is frozen.
A:	And then you can re freeze.
B:	And I thaw it
B:	and then you can re freeze it.
B:	And,
A:	Hey, that sounds great.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	That
B:	It was, they're very good, very good.
B:	And that's the one thing that I hate to make is desserts.
A:	Oh, do you?
A:	And that's my favorite.
B:	Is it?
A:	And I really don't care for desserts that well other than one piece of it.
B:	Oh, I love to eat it,
B:	but I don't like to make it.
B:	It takes time
B:	and, time I don't have anymore
A:	That's the, that's the thing I hate most about entertaining is thinking of what I'm going to serve.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	It is.
A:	I, I said I can make it no time.
A:	It's trying to think,
A:	and then we just, uh, built a new home
A:	and I have one of these kitchens that's the center of the house
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and so no matter where they're at, your company can see you cooking. Which is funny.
B:	That's right.
B:	And your mess
A:	This, well, this is what everyone has said.
A:	They said it's okay for you because you keep a real neat kitchen.
A:	And I said, yes,
A:	I decided it looks better in BETTER HOMES AND GARDENS than it does in practicality.
B:	Yeah
A:	But, uh, what I have learned in the, uh, ten months we've lived here, is it that when I entertain, I have to have my foods all prepared and in the oven with all the, everything through, ready to serve. Because with the open area, you don't want someone from your dining room seeing your mess, like you said.
B:	Right.
B:	Right.
B:	That's, that's right.
A:	So you have to have the picturesque kitchen, you know, right out of the magazine.
B:	Well, I like to have mine all done anyway, because then I want to, I want to party, too.
B:	I don't want to sit in the kitchen and be putting an olive on something
A:	You're right.
B:	You know.
A:	And you know the funny thing is, now that I have a large kitchen with a big island and that, I still have people trying to come, you know,
A:	they'll come in the kitchen
A:	and I said, out,
A:	we have the chairs on the other side of the counter for guests.
B:	Correct
A:	You're not allowed to trespass into my kitchen
B:	Sounds,
A:	And it, it has worked out.
A:	But at our point of life we know many of the people we're entertaining uh, well enough that they know, you know, it's very much at home type situation.
B:	Right.
B:	Well, a lot of our entertaining anymore with the couples, again, that we've known a long time like you, they, uh, we all bring things
B:	and it sure makes it a whole lot easier. Anymore.
A:	Well, we even have a better one.
A:	Now we decided that we all meet, we have it worked,
A:	Okay.
B:	All right,
B:	well, I'm not a big exerciser,
B:	but I kind of had to start after I had my baby because I wanted to lose that extra weight.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And so basically at this point I'm, I'm a real walker.
A:	I am, too.
B:	Are you?
A:	Yes.
B:	I don't do that, oh, I guess I'll call it that fancy type walking where they kind of move their hips, you know, and keep their arms up.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I don't do that.
B:	I mostly just take a, a walk around the block or with my baby
B:	or, you know, and I have to do that at least once a day. If it, If it's going to make any effect on, since I have to eat the same as I did before.
A:	Oh, that's good.
B:	I can't neglect that because of the baby either.
A:	And how old is your baby?
B:	She just, uh, well, she was premature,
B:	so she's about nine months now, though.
B:	times goes fast.
A:	Yes.
A:	Well, I walk two and a half to three miles every night.
B:	Oh, that's great.
A:	My husband and I were on Nutrisystem about eighteen months ago
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and he lost sixty-two pounds
A:	and I lost twenty-one.
B:	Oh, my goodness.
A:	So we've decided to maintain our weight, that we will do this exercise walking program
A:	and we walk our dog every night and go up around the elementary school.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	We have a little path that we do. And, uh, except if it's raining or real cold which it hasn't been
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Exactly.
A:	we try to get out, uh, every, every night.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And he plays racquetball twice a week,
A:	but I'm not into that,
A:	so I think the walking is enough to help us stay in shape and toned.
B:	Well, I think that is just wonderful.
B:	Now, as far as I'm concerned, I have several other children
B:	and so, uh, I think at this point to fit it into, to other things, it's kind of a task.
A:	Yes.
B:	You know. Uh, it's not to where I'm just so freed up that I, I just go, oh, this is wonderful,
B:	let's go
A:	Right
A:	that's right.
A:	I know my kids are into sports
A:	and a lot of times, tonight we won't finish with the football game till around nine thirty
A:	so we will just go out after that.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	So, my kids, luckily, are old enough I can leave them at home alone while I go out and walk.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Now, does your husband usually go with you, then?
A:	Yes.
B:	Oh, see, now that's really nice.
A:	Yes.
B:	Because mine's at meetings sometimes
B:	and, and he's not really into it
B:	so I have to,
A:	No
A:	my husband never was either until he lost the weight.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	That was his decision.
A:	He had arthritis in his hips
A:	and his doctor said he needed to lose weight and exercise.
B:	I think that is so wonderful.
A:	So once he got motivated, now he's ready to walk every night.
A:	And our dog has lost a little weight.
A:	He walks every night, too
A:	So, he gets excited when he sees us put on our, our shoes, our walking shoes.
B:	I bet.
B:	I think that's really, really good.
B:	And, and, you know, I think this, after you've done it a certain amount of time, it kind of does get to be a routine.
A:	Yes.
B:	It's not,
B:	like when I first started, it, you know, that was the hardest thing was to get ready and get out there.
A:	Making time for it.
B:	But now if I haven't done it in a day or two or something, I really notice that I haven't done it in a ...
A:	Yes.
B:	You know. And I like the time because my kids, sometimes they come with me
B:	and sometimes they don't.
B:	And when they don't, I, I really notice, you know, how fun it can be when they come.
B:	So, uh, I like to have somebody come with me.
A:	I know,
A:	I do, too.
B:	Uh, I know most of, enough of the people that if anything ever happened I could go to a home around this block area.
A:	Right.
B:	So it, it's not real dangerous,
B:	but still, I don't like to go alone.
A:	No.
B:	So
A:	I never do either. Even if I have my dog with me.
B:	Yeah.
A:	You know, it's nice to have another person there,
A:	but ...
B:	Yeah.
B:	You know,
A:	Mostly, it's my husband
A:	and sometimes it's my kids.
B:	Well, I think that's great.
B:	I, and, well, sometimes when I, I take my kids to the playground that's the only other exercise I, I really think I do.
B:	I was on an exercise program before where it was more like an aerobics type thing.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh, I found real quick that wasn't for me.
A:	Me, too.
A:	I did the dance step when I lived up in Michigan
B:	Uh-huh
A:	and it just wore me out.
A:	I would leave totally exhausted.
A:	I never lost any weight,
A:	and I got to the point I dreaded going in.
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah.
A:	So walking seems to be a good solution for me
A:	and it doesn't cost anything
B:	Right
B:	right.
B:	And it gives me time to think.
B:	So I think, not only does it help my body,
B:	but I think it helps my mind too.
A:	Yes.
B:	So I like that.
A:	That's the one time in the day my husband and I can get away and talk without having the kids jump in and ...
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah,
B:	need something
B:	and,
A:	Yep.
B:	They can wait until you get back home.
A:	Yep.
B:	Well, I think that's great
B:	Well, that's what I do for
A:	Yep,
A:	that's all I do, too.
B:	Okay.
A:	Okay.
A:	Okay,
A:	how's the weather been in Plano?
B:	Basically about the same as what you've probably had.
A:	Yeah,
A:	this is probably unusual topic to give two of us in the same city.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Well, I don't know about you,
A:	but I was really enjoying the cool snap last couple of weeks,
A:	and I'm ready for it to come back.
B:	Oh, you like the rain, do you?
A:	Well, not the rain so much as the cool, the other mornings when it was like sixty-five when we woke up and sixty-six,
A:	and today I know when I got up that the temperature said more like, close, seventy-nine or eighty
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	so I'm kind of ready for the pumpkin weather.
B:	Oh, are you?
B:	I don't care for that as much.
A:	You don't
B:	No.
A:	are you a summer person?
B:	I'm a summer person
A:	Are you?
B:	I like the heat.
A:	Well, I have a friend who's the same way,
A:	and anything below sixty, she's just not happy
A:	but I, I think what I would miss is the change of seasons and all because I know in Plano we really don't have as many seasons as, uh,
A:	my husband's from Nebraska,
A:	and they have more of the four seasons.
B:	Yeah,
B:	and I'm from Utah,
B:	so, I, I like, the four seasons
A:	Oh, you're used to that, too.
B:	I just don't like the cold.
A:	You don't like the cold.
A:	Well, I usually like it about sweater weather,
A:	and the problem here in Plano is it doesn't last very long.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	It goes from hot,
A:	and then you get a couple of weeks of that Indian Summer,
A:	and then it's cold
B:	Yeah.
A:	and I wish it were several months of that.
B:	The thing, the other thing is the, I don't like the rain either.
A:	Well, I don't either unless it's like, uh,
A:	some of my favorite's like a Friday night when it rains
A:	and you really didn't have anywhere to go,
A:	and it's sleeping time.
A:	But if you have to get up and get out in it, I don't like it either
B:	Well, we have several children that are in sports,
B:	and so it always makes their games be postponed forever and ever and ever on, on, and on.
A:	Oh, yeah.
A:	Well, sure it does.
A:	That kind of schedule, you really need a lot more sunshine.
B:	I like it better, I think.
A:	And also the evenings are going to be getting, uh, darker sooner as it gets cooler.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah.
A:	But I did a walk last night,
A:	and it seemed like it was a little bit hot still.
A:	Sometimes when you work up a sweat you need it to be a little bit cooler.
B:	The thing about when it gets hot here is, I don't like the humidity,
B:	that part I don't care about.
A:	Well, I agree, absolutely,
A:	and you know, it's all relative,
A:	because I was from West Texas,
A:	and it was very dry,
A:	and so I thought Dallas was awful,
A:	and I still think so,
A:	but then this summer we went to Orlando for a week,
A:	and it was so humid there that your, um, all your windows were were wet every morning.
A:	They had to get the squeejies and clean them off.
B:	Oh, really.
A:	And when we got back to Dallas it seemed really dry because it's kind of like what you're used to.
A:	But I agree with you,
A:	the humidity, especially for curly heads like me.
B:	Oh, is that right?
A:	Yes.
A:	I do not like the
B:	Well another reason,
B:	well, I guess I can't say that it, I don't like the rain completely.
B:	We have a little garden that we have
B:	and and so it really helps our garden,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, you know, even, I don't know if that's because plants are just that way
B:	and they like rain,
B:	or, it seems they thrive when it rains,
B:	they just, really,
A:	Yeah,
A:	I think so too.
A:	I know our grass needs mowing twice as often when it rains
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah.
A:	but it seems like here,
A:	I would like it to rain and then be over, and then not rain for a while.
A:	It seems like when it gets stuck in a rain pattern, that's all it does.
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah.
A:	So, uh, but I, I am ready for a little bit of the cooler weather and not so much in the nineties but something like,
B:	Well,
A:	I guess my, my best would be probably sixty-eight when you wake up or sixty-six, and then probably seventy-five during the day.
B:	Well I like seventies I like seventies okay.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah,
A:	are you, do you like the heat in the summer then when it gets up in the nineties and hundreds.
B:	Oh, I don't like nineties.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah.
B:	You can give me seventies
A:	Yeah.
B:	and you can give me eighties
A:	Yeah,
A:	keep it there
B:	and I'm okay.
B:	But when it gets too hot, then it's, that, I don't like that
A:	Yeah.
B:	I stay in the house because it's just, It's just too hot.
A:	Well, I do, too,
A:	I do, too
A:	and that was one thing about the year around school that originally we had been sort of negative on it.
A:	But then we started thinking, especially in Plano, the weather is so hot in August, that there really isn't a lot the children can do outside anyhow.
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah.
A:	Static here.
B:	That's okay
B:	Um, I've, I've thought about that, too,
B:	and, um, when we take our vacations, we, we do take them in August sometimes so that we can be away from here
A:	Yeah.
A:	We do too.
A:	I think a lot of people agree the same.
B:	It just really gets way,
B:	when it gets way too hot
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	and we've been here for several years,
B:	and we've been here years when it's been hundreds
B:	and,
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	now there have been worse summers.
A:	In fact this morning when they were talking about, uh, Harold Taft, they were talking about how this has been one of the milder of the summers and milder fall,
B:	Years,
B:	uh-huh.
A:	everybody seems to be,
A:	you can tell some of the newscasters when they like the heat, because they'll talk about it being so gorgeous on those days when we're melting,
A:	and you can tell when they talk about beautiful weather some mornings when we're, it'll be too cold,
A:	and they'll say,
A:	well those are the ones that like the cold weather.
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah.
B:	He, he always did such a good job, I thought.
A:	Oh, yeah,
A:	he did,
A:	he did.
A:	It was it was really a shame.
B:	A good weather man,
A:	He didn't go with all the gimmicks that some of them did.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Anyway, um, I guess it's,
A:	It's kind of hard to keep on about the weather for five minutes
B:	That's okay,
B:	they say when you're done you're done,
A:	Oh, is that right?
A:	Okay.
B:	you don't have to wait for them to say cut off your time.
A:	Oh, good.
B:	You just say, Have a good day or whatever.
A:	Well good,
A:	well, then have a good day.
B:	You too.
A:	And I hope you enjoy the weather this week.
B:	You too.
B:	What is it about, nursing homes?
A:	well, about nursing homes, and, and older people.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Uh, my husband has a grandmother that lives with his mother
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and they're just really close here.
A:	And his mother has bad health too
A:	and so I go over sometimes in the day when he's at work
A:	and I, um, help with her and bathe her and feed her.
B:	Right.
A:	And, uh, and I, that's hard to be a caretaker I really believe.
A:	It's really difficult to be a caretaker twenty-four hours a day.
B:	Oh, it's very difficult
B:	I know.
A:	Uh, she has Alzheimer's and does not remember, uh, a lot if anything.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And so she asks the same questions over and over again. Which is not you know, unrealistic.
B:	Right.
A:	Um, and so you just have to try and be patient and answer them again or just answer another question.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Uh, I, uh,
A:	some nights his mother calls me and says can your family,
A:	and just bring the kids in the family
A:	and just come over and, and visit grandma because she gets very disoriented.
B:	Yeah,
B:	how old is she?
A:	She's ninety-two.
B:	Uh, my, see my father is ninety-two
B:	and still, uh, he and mother still live at the house and drive and and do the whole thing,
A:	Oh, I think that's wonderful.
B:	but you know if something would, uh, whenever something happens to one of them then, I don't know what I'll do up there.
A:	Well,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I, I just know that too many horror stories about nursing homes
B:	and so,
A:	Yeah.
A:	I was just going to say.
B:	They're in Missouri
B:	and I could, I, I know, I know stories for sure that they just, they, they just, well, they can't take the proper care of them. Most of them.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Um,
B:	And, uh, it's, it's tragic that, you know, when people live so long that they, uh, don't have a really don't have a place to go.
A:	Yes.
B:	So,
A:	Uh, I think it's wonderful these, these places that aren't nursing homes necessarily
A:	but they can go and reside there like little apartments, places in between places.
B:	Right.
A:	And I like that idea if they can handle it themselves.
A:	Um,
B:	Yeah,
B:	there's one very close to where my parents are
B:	but, uh, I think it would be nice
B:	but my dad's the type he wouldn't want to spend the money on anything.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah
B:	So, uh, I mean, he's from that old depression era
B:	and, uh, you know, it's, oh, it's just blissfull that they're both, able to do everything for themselves.
A:	Yeah.
B:	I would imagine that I'll, uh, if something happens, I'll move one of them or you know, in, in with me.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So, uh,
A:	Yeah.
B:	But I know a lot of people have said that and then find out how tough it is
B:	and, but I think you'd have to really,
B:	they also wanted us to talk about you'd have to really check on the, uh on this homes.
A:	Nursing homes.
B:	But I just don't know how much you can see when you go for a,
A:	Visit.
B:	I think you just have to drop in all unexpectedly a lot.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And so many people when they put people in the nurses home, they never see them.
A:	They don't go and see them.
A:	That's right.
B:	They never go to see them.
A:	That's right.
B:	I've talked to many, uh, owners of places and say that nobody even,
B:	maybe, maybe Christmas.
A:	You know, um, I, I think nursing homes are, are, um, some are good
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I have to say that.
B:	Right.
A:	But for the most part I truly believe that the parents would be better if they were with the children.
B:	Oh, I do too.
A:	Um,
B:	Or if, if they could be real, real nearby where they could see them everyday or so.
A:	Right,
A:	right.
B:	Uh, because I know Governor Richards is really upset about what she's finding in the nursing homes, uh, regulation in Texas
B:	so maybe we'll get it improved.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So.
A:	I hope so.
B:	Anyway.
A:	You know, it's, I think it's very difficult in the first place to make that choice to have them go there.
B:	Right.
B:	Oh, it's tough I'm sure.
A:	And then if you find out that they are not having good care, you know, I'm sure that it is just, you know, you'd pull them out of there so fast.
B:	Oh.
B:	Right,
B:	that would be devastating I'm sure
B:	so.
A:	And, uh, and yet if you didn't feel like you could be a good caretaker I don't, uh,
A:	it's a very, very hard decision I think.
B:	It is a tough decision
B:	and it's one that needs a great deal of thought, and prior probably.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	I think that's right,
B:	Yeah.
A:	and especially if you're not a person that is like a medical person maybe or something that the person needs medical treatment.
B:	Right.
A:	Now I know a friend of mine who had a father, uh, she brought to her home, uh, to live there,
A:	but he needed the medical treatment
A:	and she had a nursing person come in like three times a week to, to help him out.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And that might be a partial solution, or something.
B:	Right.
A:	But, um, I personally am for the trying it at home caretaker part before I think I'd ever,
B:	I would hope we could do that, and then go from there.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Well, anyway,
A:	Well, I, I think we kind of are along the same lines.
B:	We've covered a little bit
B:	and, uh, it's good to hear from you
B:	and,
A:	Good to hear from you.
B:	Have a good,
A:	Have a lovely day.
B:	Have a good
A:	Okay.
A:	Have you faced, uh, elderly care yet, uh, nursing home care for any of your parents?
B:	Unfortunately, yes.
B:	Uh, in fact, tonight I had the dinner with, uh, my three brothers and our wives
B:	and we were talking, uh,
B:	we had a review with the nursing home staff.
B:	My mother's in a nursing home.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, uh, we had a review today
B:	and a few things we had to do that are part of it that you don't really like, like, uh making decisions on living wills and extended care, that type of thing,
A:	Yes.
B:	so, yes,
B:	I'm very familiar with it
B:	and it's not something that is, uh, you know,
B:	I never thought I'd have to go through this kind of experience.
B:	But I guess we all do.
A:	I think sooner or later, uh,
A:	both my mother and my husband's mother, we had to end up putting in nursing homes
A:	and they were to the point that they only lived, both of them, about six weeks once they got in.
B:	Oh, really?
A:	And, uh-huh.
A:	And it's absolutely, I believe that was one of the hardest things I ever did. In my life.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I, that, it just, you know, it's absolutely devastating.
B:	Right.
A:	What have you found in dealing with the nursing homes?
B:	Well, they're not, every, all the horror stories you hear about them I think are true.
A:	Yes
B:	Uh, we've, you know, we've looked around
B:	and, my wife has looked at, extensively at all the ones in the area
B:	And the one she is in now, uh, there's a lot of drawbacks, a lot of things we don't like.
B:	But, again, it's no different than every one.
B:	And, you know, the cost of it, the, three thousand dollars a month
A:	Um, uh-huh.
B:	when you think about it, for what you're paying a hospital for almost the same, well, even not as much care.
A:	Yes.
A:	Yes.
B:	It's not that expensive, really.
A:	No,
A:	uh, there, well, there's a little bit of difference in, in the two between my mother and my mother-in-law.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, theirs both ran,
A:	oh, I think my mother-in-law's was like fifteen hundred
A:	and my mother's was two thousand.
A:	Then, this has been five years ago.
A:	And, uh uh, one of the things that, you know, I had discovered is that if they knew that I came in there at all different hours, they got much better care than if,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	when I started out with my mother-in-law, because she was in there first, I would go certain hours
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and they knew.
A:	And if I'd pop in unexpectedly, I discovered, you know, they did a little bit, they did better.
B:	Oh, really?
A:	You know, uh-huh.
A:	And, you know, a couple of times with my mother-in-law, I would catch something not being taken care of. And, you know, would have to rate,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	so I got to where, I knew then when my mother was in that, you know, not to go the same time all the time. Because they would,
B:	Yeah.
A:	and when I was looking for the nursing homes, another thing that I learned, uh,
A:	we had my mother all set to go into one
A:	and for some reason I just went back, and on my own went around the different floors.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, I saw areas that they had not shown me
A:	and they did not come across as well as, you know, what they had originally shown me,
B:	Well, I'll be darned.
A:	so, uh, we did not put her in that one.
A:	We put her in another one that I, I went a couple of times when they weren't expecting me and saw, and, you know, was much, uh, better pleased with the situation.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah,
B:	you, you know, this is the whole point.
B:	You've got, you've got to shop them.
A:	Yes,
A:	you do.
B:	I know my mother's in now, in a unit that's mainly Alzheimer's
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, uh, we're convinced that she probably would be better off in a geriatric.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh, the fact that these people are they're up and around,
B:	but they're, they're, it's reminds me too much of an asylum type situation.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And it's very, very,
A:	Does your mother have Alzheimer's?
B:	She,
B:	well, who knows.
B:	They call it, uh, dementia.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, uh, we don't know.
B:	I, I mean she does not know us anymore
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and whether it's Alzheimer's or what it is nobody really knows,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but it's, basically the same.
B:	And her health is not that bad.
B:	Although she has gone down, downhill drastically since this, this last,
B:	well, she had been in a retirement community
B:	and somewhere in the back of her mind she had it that she would live with her children.
B:	Well she, we, we just did not have the capabilities to, to take care of her.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, uh, but she, she has gone down steadily since she has been in,
B:	and she's been in the nursing home now for, oh, I would say about three months.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And,
A:	Did she know that she was going to a nursing home?
B:	I'm sorry?
A:	Did she know that she was going to a nursing home?
B:	She,
B:	no,
B:	as far as she knew, she was going to a hospital. And that she could, she could handle a hospital
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and we says, you know, mom, if you, you know, if you get a, you get better, you've got to have the care, the doctor insisted on it, you know, if you get better that you could come out.
A:	Okay,
A:	what kind of car are you going to buy next?
B:	Well, one of the cars I'm thinking about buying next is, uh, a nice, safe, small car,
B:	but, um, uh, the reason being, is we just purchased a van a little while ago because we have a big family,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and we use that to get back and forth and haul kids around and so forth,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and we have another four door car that I drive to work,
B:	and I think it'd be more economical if I were able to a smaller car and, uh, wouldn't be, wouldn't cost much with gas.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	That's true,
A:	that's true.
B:	What, what are you looking at?
A:	Well, I'm really not looking at anything for a while,
A:	but you know, when you're driving down the road you see all these pretty new ones that are out,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and you think, Oh, well, maybe, maybe I would like a new car.
B:	Oh, yeah
A:	But I think I'll be driving mine about two or three more years anyway.
B:	Oh, yes,
B:	oh, yes.
A:	But, uh.
B:	Well, the cost of new cars recently are extremely outrageous for the
A:	Right,
A:	they are.
A:	I sure do like the looks of that new Mitsubishi Diamante.
B:	Oh, yes,
B:	oh, yes.
A:	That is a pretty car.
B:	I'm, uh, I really like the looks also of the new Mazda that they have,
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	that's pretty, too.
B:	but um, I, uh, you know, the, the costs of a new car and those new models are extremely out of our price range right now.
A:	Yeah,
A:	they get pretty expensive.
B:	Yes,
B:	they do.
A:	The last one I bought, I bought a, uh,
A:	well, it's a, it's a Town Car,
A:	but it was a demo, returned
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and I got it with like, you know, I think it was like fourteen thousand miles on it and nearly ten thousand dollars less than what the list price was.
B:	Right.
B:	Well, you can't go wrong with that kind of opportunity.
A:	So I was really pleased to find that,
A:	and I then, I bought it for cheaper,
A:	I was looking at a Honda Accord, a brand new one
B:	Yes.
A:	and I bought this, uh, the, the Lincoln Town Car for just a little less money than what I was going to buy the new Honda Accord.
B:	Wow.
B:	Well, you get a much bigger, better comfortable ride.
A:	And the thing about it is they give you that ten, uh, that hundred thousand mile, five year warranty where it only costs you twenty-five dollars to have anything repaired.
B:	Yes.
B:	Well, that's fantastic.
B:	That's real, real good.
A:	So, uh, I have really been impressed.
A:	I said, I probably never be able, to find another one that I can afford, you know.
B:	No,
B:	do you,
A:	But I have loved this car better than anything I've ever driven, because you can go on the road and get there
A:	and you're not even tired.
B:	Very comfortable, smooth ride, huh.
A:	And it gets like twenty-six miles to the gallon on the road.
B:	Oh, it does?
A:	It sure does.
B:	That's, that's unbelievable for that size of car.
A:	I, they kept telling me that,
A:	and I thought they're crazy,
A:	so the week after I got it, well, actually before I signed the papers on it, I took it over to Boozier City
B:	Yes.
A:	and it did it.
B:	Wow.
B:	That's great.
A:	But it's, uh,
B:	That's great.
B:	That kind of gas mileage, uh, we're, we're kind of hoping for on our van.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Well, that's kind of what we've always been told, you know, they'll do,
A:	and then we hope for it,
A:	and it never happens
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but it really, it does get good gas mileage.
B:	Well, that's excellent.
A:	Most of the time when I don't go anywhere I can drive it for like three weeks from to and from work, you know, and then fill it up,
A:	so.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Do you, uh, do, does it, uh, need a lot of repairs?
B:	Is it a very reliable kind of car?
A:	I haven't had anything,
A:	I've taken it in twice for like just really minor things,
A:	and it cost me the twenty-five dollars.
A:	The, uh, really something really silly when we first got it,
A:	we couldn't get the light,
A:	they have all these lights in the car
B:	Yes.
A:	and it has this fancy little light that gives you a reading light for the passengers in the back seat
B:	Yes.
A:	and we couldn't get the light to turn off.
B:	Um.
A:	And we kept trying, you know,
A:	and we went out to dinner with some friends,
A:	and it stayed on all night, you know just shining right down on them, you know
B:	Oh dear.
B:	Oh dear
A:	and we couldn't get it to turn off,
A:	and the next day my husband goes out there
A:	and he tries to get it off,
A:	we turn the knob, you know, in the front that's supposed to turn the lights on and off
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and we turned everything we could,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and he took it in,
A:	and they said, you know, you just have to press the switch.
A:	He says, I've pressed every switch in that car,
A:	and I can't get the light off,
A:	it's broken.
B:	Yes.
A:	So they took it in and charged us the twenty-five dollars,
A:	and they called and told us though, that all you have to do is turn the off switch,
A:	and they showed us where the switch was.
B:	They charged you twenty-five dollars just to tell you that, huh.
A:	They, they thought there was really something wrong with it when he told them he had already done the switch.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	oh, so they probably went through the,
A:	But he hadn't, he hadn't done the right one.
B:	I see
A:	And it's right on the arm rest in the back
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and we didn't know it was there.
B:	Oh, okay.
A:	And the guy hit it with his arm when he got in the car
B:	And found it right away.
A:	and so we thought, you know, there, there was, it was broken.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	But we've had just, uh,
A:	I guess it's been in two times.
A:	I've had it three years now.
B:	Yes.
A:	And, uh, it's been in two, maybe three times.
A:	But it's just been real minor things.
B:	Well, I think that, uh, you have an excellent deal then,
B:	and the, the company is able probably to offer that kind of warranty on the car because they know it's so well built that they don't expect any kind of major repairs whereas with an awful lot of other lower quality cars you would be getting repairs after repair after repair
A:	That's right.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and those companies wouldn't be able to afford that for that kind of extended warranty or warranty at all,
B:	so.
A:	That's right.
A:	But it's really, it's been an enjoyable car.
A:	Like I say, I'll probably never be able to have another one, because I think we bought it for about sixteen thousand, you know
B:	Yes
A:	and I said, I'll never find another one for that price.
B:	No,
B:	not at all.
A:	And they keep going up,
A:	so I'll have to enjoy it,
A:	Okay,
A:	we're on, uh, recycling
B:	Yes.
A:	and, uh, I am not real well informed on exactly what Richardson does.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I know that we, uh, they ask us to bundle our newspapers,
A:	and we do that,
A:	and we recycle our aluminum pop cans and stuff.
B:	I see.
A:	But now Plano has quite an elaborate system, don't they?
B:	Yeah,
B:	they do.
B:	Uh, it started out several years ago when they put these, uh, collection sites they, uh, near a WalMart, near a football stadium and the like,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and they just couldn't believe how many people were going out of their way to fill these things up.
B:	These huge dumpsters were being filled up in a, in a matter of a week.
B:	So they knew that there was something going on here.
B:	So, they started looking into programs,
B:	and what we have now,
B:	it, they changed the whole way that they do garbage in Plano.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Instead of collecting plastic bags of garbage two days a week, they make a collection on Monday for yard waste,
B:	and the yard waste has to be put in a special bag that's a decomposable paper sack
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	it's a pretty good size.
B:	It's maybe the size of two or three, um, grocery bags.
A:	Oh.
B:	And we put that out by the street,
B:	and they collect those on Monday.
B:	And then on Wednesday, we put out two containers that they gave us.
B:	One container's a huge, green, monstrous thing that a, uh, uh, a special truck comes by and hooks onto the side of it and flips the container into the back of the garbage truck.
A:	Okay.
B:	And then also, that same day, you put out a small tub,
B:	it's maybe two feet high and three feet by two feet wide,
B:	and you put, just throw in your aluminum and your milk jugs and newspaper,
B:	and then the.
A:	Okay,
A:	and then they they separate it.
B:	Exactly,
B:	they have a big truck that has like not ten, maybe five big doors on the side of it,
B:	and they throw the different stuff in the different doors.
A:	Oh, that's a neat system.
B:	Yeah
B:	it is.
B:	And apparently it's, you know, it, it went off pretty much without a hitch.
B:	The trucks, the special five door trucks were a little tough in getting because of something to do with the Persian Gulf war
A:	Oh, uh-huh.
B:	that the trucks were being, the engines or something were being shipped over there for something or other.
B:	But it does work pretty well.
A:	Well, I know our son and daughter-in-law live in Plano,
A:	and I know they have commented on the system.
A:	I don't know that they know that it worked that way,
A:	but they have the two separate containers and stuff.
B:	Oh, yes,
B:	uh-huh.
B:	I noticed something interesting last time, I guess two Wednesdays ago when they were picking up,
B:	I happened to be out there in the morning when they were picking up the, that tub stuff,
B:	and the man who was doing the separating, when he was done emptying the tub, he took a little electronic reader device off of his belt
B:	and he read the bar code that was on the side of the tub.
B:	So they must be collecting information about who does it, and how often.
A:	Oh, that is interesting.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Because I wonder if that means that if you don't do it
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	I, I don't know,
B:	but I think that's a really interesting question.
A:	That, that is interesting.
A:	You know, will you be penalized if you don't.
A:	Will you, uh.
B:	Yeah,
B:	that, that seems farfetched only because it, it, there's no law that says you have to buy a newspaper or pop cans or milk jugs.
A:	Right,
A:	right.
B:	So there, there's, it's possible that there is a person in Plano that doesn't buy any of those three things, and therefore wouldn't have.
A:	That's true, except that it's hard to imagine, you know, when you have, uh, cans, you know, from the, the market and, uh you know, vegetable cans, and et cetera.
B:	Right.
B:	No,
B:	they won't take vegetable cans.
A:	Oh, they don't take vegetable cans.
B:	Just, just the aluminum pop cans.
A:	This is just their aluminum cans.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Well, then yes,
A:	so they have,
A:	that's interesting.
A:	I wonder, uh, uh,
B:	Yeah,
B:	what they're doing with that.
A:	Wouldn't you really like to know?
B:	I would.
B:	Someday I'm sure we'll find out.
A:	I'm sure
A:	you know, if nothing else call the sanitation department say, okay,
A:	what are you doing reading you know.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	So tell me your feelings on recycling.
B:	Is it, do you think this is a good thing, or silly.
A:	I think it's a very good thing.
A:	I think that, uh, I think it helps if the city is giving you a nudge to do it because I think there are a lot of people that don't do it,
B:	Yes.
A:	and I can't say that my husband and I are real, real conscientious.
A:	We got started on the aluminum cans because our, uh, grandson was collecting them, uh, to raise money and stuff for an organization he was in.
B:	Yes.
A:	So we started collecting them,
A:	and now he's through,
A:	so we've just, we've kept on
B:	Yeah.
A:	and it's interesting, too, that we have to drive, we drive to Plano at Plano Road to, uh, just inside your city limits, to, you know turn them in to dump them in.
B:	Dump them off.
B:	Yeah,
B:	and that is interesting.
A:	I'm sure there's bound to be some here in Richardson
B:	Right.
A:	but we just haven't really seen them advertised or you know, something.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Well, the
B:	yeah,
B:	the Plano newspaper each, each day, in fact, has a, a little list of all the recycling centers for all the different things.
B:	They publish it every single day.
A:	Well, that's interesting.
B:	Yeah,
B:	and phone numbers, and, and that kind of stuff.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	well, I haven't noticed, uh, I haven't noticed Richardson, you know, making that big a,
A:	Okay
A:	on a scale of one to ten where do you stand and why?
B:	Well, I guess I stand on, uh, on, probably ten for no, uh, restrictions.
B:	I, uh, recently just moved to Texas from, uh, South Dakota and Nebraska,
B:	and I guess in terms of gun control I've always, uh, been raised with the, uh, idea in the Constitution that, uh, citizens had a right to bear arms,
B:	and I realize that probably way back when when the Constitution was written it probably regarded, uh, more, uh, of a national defense, uh, than anything else,
B:	but, uh, on the other hand, too, uh, people then, uh, needed to use firearms for, um, survival in terms of, uh, food
A:	Yes,
A:	true.
B:	and, uh, I was raised, uh, you know, hunting all the time,
B:	I lived on the farm, and, uh, you know, enjoy hunting
B:	and I guess I have, uh, some problems with, uh, being restricted to, um, owning a gun for, you know, hunting purposes mainly.
A:	Right.
B:	And, um, it scares me a little bit to think that they would begin restricting gun control to the point where, um, eventually we may not be able to have that right any more.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I can, I can understand that.
A:	I was raised in Oklahoma,
A:	and of course, being Oklahoman and Texan, uh,
A:	yeah,
A:	the hunting and everything,
A:	and I used to things in my father and my husband having guns and all,
A:	and I, I did, used to be all in favor of it,
A:	but it's, all of a sudden it's starting to get really scary with these gangs.
A:	Yet I think I would vote a one if I thought that it would be nation wide and they can guarantee no one would have a gun, no crooks, nothing.
A:	But because I know that's not going to happen, then I have to probably right up there about an eight
B:	Yeah,
B:	it, uh, moving to this area, of course it happens everywhere,
B:	but, uh, I guess we're pretty naive coming from small towns, uh, in the midwest and then, uh, moving to a larger city where there are drive-by shootings
B:	and, uh, there seems like killing for no reason at all,
B:	and, uh.
A:	Well, it just seems like in the past three or four years it has just gotten so much worse than it was.
A:	There's always been a certain amount of crime in your, you know, your urban areas,
A:	and I know we lived in Chicago for seven years,
A:	and of course it was definitely there.
A:	So when we first moved here, it wasn't as bad as this.
A:	It's, you know, it's just getting all of a sudden so much worse.
A:	I don't know whether it's due to the drugs and the, uh, drug kings that are here and Jamaican drug kings coming in.
A:	I don't know whether that's it, or street gangs.
A:	I don't know what the answer is.
A:	I know that it's scary,
A:	and yet I hate the government constantly telling me what I can do and what I can't do,
A:	and that's basically what the gun control would end up being.
B:	I, I think so,
B:	and, and there's always the, uh, the, uh, the old, uh, saying that keeps coming up that if a person wants a gun bad enough they'll, they'll get one,
B:	and, uh, and then, uh.
A:	Well, it's very true.
B:	Yeah.
A:	It's not the law abiding citizen that, you know, is, is dangerous with the gun
A:	It's the ones that are going out and stealing it.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And I said I think the only way I would be in big favor of gun control is if they could absolutely guarantee that nobody would have them.
A:	And I think that would almost have to go with armies, too.
A:	I mean, they'd have to be almost world-wide, which we know would never ever happen.
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah,
B:	that's for sure.
A:	Because even if you said, okay,
A:	you know, armed forces could have them,
B:	Yeah,
B:	and, uh, and, you know, uh, I suppose, uh, years ago, way back when, uh, when, uh, they had the revolutionary war and people decided that they, uh, were fed up with the government, uh,
B:	and if they didn't have a way to, uh, to fight back they would have been in big trouble.
A:	That's very true
A:	very true.
A:	Who knows,
A:	we maybe want to overthrow the government
B:	Well, the way things are going.
A:	I know,
A:	if somebody doesn't do something.
A:	Uh, what about, uh, what do you think of this, this, uh, law that they're putting into effect that you have to wait X number of days before you can, uh, carry the gun, or buy, you know, actually purchase the gun?
B:	Well, you know, they introduced some gun control back when I was a teenager, I believe, in terms of, uh, every gun you bought had to be licensed, I believe.
A:	Yes.
B:	And, uh, you know, that didn't bother me, uh, too much,
B:	and so, I guess it depends, um, if there are some statistics that show that, uh, that people, uh, commit crimes on the spur of the moment.
A:	Okay,
A:	uh, I guess our topic is about movies
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and, uh, what is coincidence,
A:	we got a baby-sitter
A:	and we went to the movies that past weekend.
B:	Oh, so did I
A:	And we saw CAPE FEAR.
B:	Oh, I heard that was excellent.
A:	It is.
B:	Is it?
A:	It's really good.
B:	Uh, I wanted to see that
B:	I was deciding between that and, uh, MY GIRL
B:	and, uh, my boyfriend and I went to see MY GIRL.
A:	Oh, how was that?
B:	Oh, it was excellent.
B:	It was a really, really good movie.
B:	I'd recommend it.
A:	I heard that's, a movie that, uh, you really can't take children.
A:	Is that true?
B:	Uh, I heard the opposite that, uh, you should take children to see it.
A:	Oh.
B:	Uh, there were quite a few, uh, kids in there with their parents.
A:	Oh.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Uh, I don't know, though,
B:	I, I've heard that, and then what you just told me
B:	so,
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah,
A:	because, uh, the little boy dies.
B:	Right,
B:	yeah.
A:	Yeah.
B:	It was sad.
B:	It was really sad.
A:	Oh.
B:	But, uh, his, it kind of shows how his, uh, best friend, this little girl, deals with his death and how, I think, maybe, how children should deal with death.
A:	Oh.
A:	Oh.
B:	Maybe.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But, it was really good.
B:	It was sad, very sad.
A:	Oh, I want to see that one.
A:	Well, CAPE FEAR was, was more suspenseful.
B:	Yeah.
A:	It was really suspenseful.
A:	So that, that's, that's a real good movie to see.
B:	I heard it was, uh, sort of like, uh, not, uh, too violent,
B:	but it was kind of like, uh, gross, kind of like, uh, SILENCE OF THE LAMBS, like.
A:	Uh, no,
A:	and it, uh, it was kind of,
A:	I don't know,
A:	it's kind of both, I guess,
A:	but it's not, it's not as bad as SILENCE OF THE LAMBS.
B:	Oh, really?
A:	But, uh, it's just as suspenseful, I think.
B:	Oh.
A:	And it, it was a real good movie.
A:	And then we saw BEAUTY AND THE BEAST Because we have two kids. And FIEVEL GOES WEST
B:	Oh, yeah.
B:	Uh.
B:	Oh, I've seen, uh, previews for them on T V,
B:	but I,
A:	But, uh, those were, those were okay,
A:	so, And then, oh, boy, it's been, it's been so long since we've been to the movies,
B:	Yeah.
A:	but I, we've rented some videos.
B:	Oh, yeah,
B:	I like to rent movies, too.
A:	And I think the last one I rented was, uh, MORTAL THOUGHTS with Demi Moore.
B:	Oh.
B:	Oh, I, I didn't see that.
A:	And, uh, that, that, that's okay.
A:	That's pretty good.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Oh, and, uh, WHAT ABOUT BOB?
B:	I have seen that at the theatres,
A:	Yeah.
B:	yeah.
A:	Yeah,
A:	we rented that one.
B:	That, that was cute.
A:	And, uh, uh, I guess that's about it.
A:	Have you rented any movies lately?
B:	Uh, the last movie I rented was THE HARD WAY with Michael J. Fox
B:	and, uh,
A:	Oh, yeah,
A:	that was good.
A:	We rented that one, too.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I liked that.
B:	I like Michael J. Fox a lot.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
B:	He's one of my favorites.
A:	Yeah.
B:	I like his movies.
A:	So, do you go to the movies often,
A:	or,
B:	No,
B:	not too often.
B:	I, I hadn't been to the movies for a really long time since last weekend.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But, uh, there's been movies out that I've been wanting to see.
B:	I just, you know, don't get a chance to get out and see them.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah,
A:	well, we have two little kids,
A:	so it's hard for us to get out and go to the movies.
A:	We have to dig up a baby-sitter
A:	and And that's only the only time we can go out,
B:	Oh I see.
A:	so our time is scarce.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Oh.
A:	But, uh, we, we, we we, you know, we're, we're big movie people
A:	and we try and do
B:	Yeah.
A:	and I don't, I don't know about the last movie I've seen on T V that was real good. Uh,
B:	Huh.
A:	And so then I said, I'm going to move back up there to go to college.
B:	That's cool.
A:	He goes, okay.
A:	So he goes, but do it fast,
A:	so I did my undergraduate in two years.
B:	Oh, really?
B:	Awesome.
A:	Yeah.
A:	So, but it's, a, it's just, you know,
A:	oh, well, we've been talking for five minutes.
B:	That's cool.
A:	That's the only obligation we have.
B:	Groovy.
A:	And, uh, well, tell your dad that now he owes you five bucks.
B:	Yeah,
B:	no doubt.
A:	Okay.
B:	Okay.
A:	All right,
A:	nice talking to you.
B:	Yeah,
B:	you, too.
A:	Bye-bye.
B:	Bye.
A:	Hi, Kay.
B:	Hi.
A:	I, uh, was thinking about salaries and benefits and uh, was wondering what's the most important thing to you besides a salary in a job.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Well, um, I, we just recently graduated from Rice University,
B:	and, uh, we were going through a lot of job interviews and things,
B:	and some of the things that were important to me, uh, when my husband was looking for his job, was, um, hours, you know,
B:	we,
B:	he'd been in graduate school so I was used to his not being home at all
A:	Yeah
B:	So I was, you know, didn't want him to have a job that would make him kind of be on call all the time, and have to go in at any time, and you know, even on the weekends and, um, and things.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So that was important to me, and also insurance for the our family because we'd like to be able to take care of our medical needs and not be thinking so much about whether or not you can afford it.
A:	Sure.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I don't ever want to have to worry about that.
A:	That's real important to me.
A:	Um, you know we have that, that Aetna
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	that's what we, the insurance that we have right now.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Us, too.
A:	When we were in Colorado, they had, um, a different type of H M O there that I really liked a lot.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	It was, um, not that kind of H M O where you have to go to their, their sort of like clinics, you know
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but this was just an H M O where you could go to private practice doctors and to the regular hospitals and all that,
A:	but it was with a certain list of, of doctors that, you know, participated in the H M O,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and, um you know, then you only had to pay the,
B:	Well, that's nice.
A:	for us it was a five dollar co-payment every time you went to the doctor, and, uh, three dollars for the prescriptions.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	that's good.
A:	And, uh, I especially liked the prescription, especially since my children tend to have ear infections all the time
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	That, those prescriptions can be very expensive.
B:	Oh, I know.
B:	We just went through that ourselves.
B:	We just, you know, are like fifty dollars for this series of antibiotics and things.
A:	Oh, I know,
A:	especially if you get, what is it, Seclor I think that that just about breaks the bank right there.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yes.
B:	Yes,
B:	it's pretty bad.
B:	Well, yeah,
B:	and we, um, we were interested in having dental insurance, too,
B:	because, um, having been in school, we kind of put things off and only went in when we knew there was a problem somewhere and stuff
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and we wanted to be able to go in and have our teeth cleaned and just checked all over
A:	Do, Do you have the basic plan or do you have the, the other one?
B:	and,
B:	We have, um, you know
B:	we're at Aetna with an, uh,
B:	we have like the the dental insurance is separate.
B:	Is that what you mean?
A:	Right.
B:	I don't think it's the basic,
B:	I think it's the other one.
A:	The one that's like you get additional,
A:	they'll pay a little bit more I think for the different procedures.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	We just have the basic right now,
A:	and for most things it tends to cover it
A:	We don't too many major, um, expenses at this point,
A:	but we have been able to find dentists that will accept pretty much whatever the basic plan pays.
A:	A couple of times we've had to pay, oh I don't know, three to five dollars but that's not that bad.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	No,
B:	that's great.
B:	Yeah,
B:	we need to go shopping for dentists and things like that too.
B:	Yes
B:	and, let's see,
B:	besides insurance, other things that we looked at, um,
B:	well, my husband does not like to commute very far,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, and we don't like him to be, you know, having to drive an hour to work or something
A:	No,
A:	we don't like that either
B:	So we kind of looked for where, where the, uh, his office would be located
B:	and well, he's at, you know, he's at the one that's at, um, seventy-five at, uh, six thirty-five and so we, by living in Plano we're just about fifteen minutes away.
A:	Is his office in Plano?
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
A:	Oh, that's not bad.
B:	Um, especially when they finish all the construction out here
A:	Right.
B:	and we didn't want him to let, you know, to,
B:	like we had some job offers in the New York area,
B:	and we thought, well, you know, he would be really commuting
A:	Oh, yes,
A:	you're not kidding.
B:	and not only is it, you know, trouble to have to drive, but it takes time away from your home and your family when you're out driving.
A:	That's right.
B:	And, um, so, that was something that was important to us,
B:	and, because, like I say, we kind of felt deprived that he had been in school and been away from us for so long
B:	that we were anxious to do everything we could to have, you know, made us be more together,
B:	and, and what other,
B:	can you think of another thing that you guys looked at
B:	and,
A:	Well, those are some of the things that are very important to us too.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Um, we, we'd like, you know, other benefits that are provided, um,
A:	the athletic facilities that you sometimes take advantage of I think that's, that's pretty nice,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but I have to say that since we've come here we haven't done it too much though,
A:	we haven't enrolled in too many of the classes or, or any of that.
A:	But that's, that's a nice benefit to have.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	that's true.
B:	That's really important.
B:	Um, also, what, um, opportunities there would be for advancement, I think, we looked at besides just, you know, what salary you would be having now.
B:	But when, when could, uh, your salary increase
A:	Right.
B:	um, is there, was there somewhere to go.
A:	Yeah,
A:	that's, that's one of, I think, the hard things right now,
A:	I mean they're going through some tough times to say the least.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I know many of us are thankful that he still has a
B:	Yes,
B:	that we can make our mortgage payments
B:	and, yeah,
B:	that's really true.
A:	um, if, if an employee is especially exemplary, I think it's often,
A:	in a smaller company it's a little bit easier for them to say, Hey, you know, this person did a wonderful job, give him a big bonus kind of thing.
A:	A lot of times smaller companies have bonus plans, where I think in a large company it's hard to do that because there're just so many people to deal with
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and you have to have guidelines, you know, for salary increases, and things like that,
A:	that's one of the things that, that happens when someone, when you're dealing with a large company.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	But.
B:	But, we also were interested in, um, you know, being sure that he felt like he liked the people that he would be working with and that there would be some opportunity for friendships that way, so that you would feel happy going to work every day and Rather than thinking Oh, I really, I can't stand these people.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But, so that's something that was important to him, in thinking he could work under.
B:	Oh, just since last summer.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	It's only been, not even a year yet,
B:	so.
A:	Well, I was going to say it sounds like you, you picked out a lot of good things, you know, for him, to, to, uh, to choose in a position and have a lot of thought put into it.
A:	In a big company, though, you also get moved around a lot
B:	Yes, well.
A:	He may be having to drive over here to Lewisville some time.
B:	Oh, yeah.
A:	Or we may be having to drive to Plano,
A:	you never know.
B:	You never know,
B:	we're hoping that that won't be the case
B:	We, I think one of the most deciding factors of why we chose, um, this area is that, um, my husband was raised in Irving
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and so he, we have a lot of family here, his side of the family.
B:	And being,
B:	when we were down in Houston, we were isolated,
B:	I mean, it's not that far, but, people would
B:	we didn't have anyone in town that was our family.
A:	Right.
B:	And although we had really good friends and we had church and school support and things, um, we were anxious to move close to family members, just because we wanted our children to know their grandparents and things like that.
A:	Yeah.
A:	We're very,
B:	So, that really made a big difference, I think, in why we chose T I, and chose to move this way.
A:	We're very far from our families,
A:	and it's really hard.
A:	I have little children,
A:	and, um, they were the only grandchildren,
A:	and so, our, our families are, are really far away.
A:	In fact, this is a little off the topic, but yesterday, my mother happened to be on a train going from Phoenix to, back to Chicago
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and it stopped in Dallas for half an hour, so I loaded the kids in the car,
A:	and we went downtown, and met her train for half an hour, and brought her a little snack and an Easter basket
A:	and I think it, it made her trip a little bit nicer.
B:	Oh, that's nice.
B:	Yeah,
B:	and it is, I think it is important to, you know, want to be close to your family
B:	and,
A:	Yeah,
A:	and it's, it's hard,
A:	I mean, just for us to snatch a half hour like that is a special occasion for us.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	So, um,
B:	Yeah,
B:	that's the same, way we felt.
A:	it's nice. It's nice that you can have your family close like that.
B:	We're really enjoying it.
B:	I wonder what it would be like,
B:	I mean, I wanted to be close to family, but I also thought it would be harder to be close to family.
A:	Yeah,
A:	sometimes it can be.
B:	But it's turned out really good,
B:	and I think that, you know, we're really satisfied with that choice,
B:	and we, you know, kind of felt like, um, it was worth it to us.
A:	That's good.
B:	But anyway.
B:	Well, I, my children just ran out the door, so I need to go check on them
A:	Okay
B:	Well I've really enjoyed the conversation.
A:	Well, I have too.
B:	And, uh, nice to have met you,
B:	and you have a good day.
A:	Okay,
A:	you too.
B:	Bye-bye.
A:	Bye-bye.
A:	Okay
B:	If you want to go first, go ahead.
A:	Oh, I think, I think that a woman's role has come a long way.
A:	We have gone more into the business aspect of, like I say, of, I don't know, working more,
A:	and we, I think we've even gone into more the labor aspect of it also. With the pay and everything, you know.
B:	Yeah,
B:	definitely.
B:	I feel that, uh, we've missed as far as the top jobs go. You know, the higher echelon.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Because if you look at most corporations, there isn't a woman, you know, that's on the board of directors, or that type of thing,
B:	they are mostly all men.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	There may be a few, but very incidental.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And I really think that it will be a long time, probably, before we see that.
B:	In one sense, I'm an older person, in my fifties, so I feel that we've lost some things in the sense that women have to work today. You know, that they are not in the home by choice anymore.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	It's mostly, you know,
B:	even if you want to say home, you really can't.
A:	And a lot of times you can't,
A:	yeah.
B:	You know, it's gotten to be a two income family to just survive today between taxes and the cost of living,
B:	and I don't think raises have kept up with, you know, a lot of the stuff, you know, as far as your medical insurance and just groceries and gasoline and all, you know.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So I think that we did come a long way in the sense that we are allowed to vote in, you know, like you say, we're out in the labor force, but I think we've lost something too.
A:	Yeah,
A:	my mom, she's a housewife,
A:	and, well, there is twelve kids in my family,
A:	so my mom never could really work, you know, because she was kind of pregnant from day one.
A:	She never really had a chance to work.
B:	Yeah.
A:	She worked before she got married,
A:	but, uh, she, uh, she doesn't believe in,
A:	she's very old fashioned.
B:	That's what I mean,
B:	and you know, there's a lot of truth to that.
A:	Yeah.
B:	If you are not going to have a family, then that's fine,
B:	then, you know, a career is a smart choice.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And I think it's great, but if you, you have a family, I think you owe the family a responsibility.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And to have children and just get a day care or someone to take care of it, and not really have the bonding process that takes place with babies and stuff, you know I, I think that the mother and the child lose,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and I think that's why there is so many problems you know, with kids today,
A:	Yeah.
B:	because they don't have the family roots anymore.
B:	You know, I'm not saying that, that it's totally gone, but it's nothing like what it used to be. You know, in that sense.
A:	Yeah,
A:	uh-huh.
A:	Yeah,
A:	and also like my mom, my mom thinks,
A:	I mean she's kind of right with it,
A:	when both partners of the marriage work, she feels that that's taking more away,
A:	that's increasing more unemployment for people that need to work. You know, like for, for the men that don't have jobs,
B:	Oh, definitely.
A:	if, you know, she feels if there is women out there just because they want to do it, she said, you know, they could stay at home,
B:	That's right,
B:	they don't want to take care of the kids. And the house and that kind of thing.
A:	Yeah.
B:	That's very true, but then they shouldn't have a family.
A:	Yeah.
B:	That's what I'm saying, you know,
B:	I think it's great that women have a choice today. That there are ways to prevent families, you know,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	like basically there's contraceptives and all kinds of ways to prevent pregnancies.
A:	Yeah.
B:	There is no need to have children if you don't want them.
A:	What do you think about that,
A:	do you think that, uh,
A:	what do you think about the women that are not having families because they want to continue their business?
B:	That's fine,
B:	that's, that's the freedom of choice.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And I agree with that,
B:	because anyone who has children that doesn't really want them isn't going to be a good parent.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Well, I shouldn't say they are not going to be a good parent.
B:	They won't be a caring parent.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Like they won't have that,
A:	Or they won't be as good as they could be.
B:	Right,
B:	that's what I mean,
B:	they'll feel like it's a job.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	It's not like something that they really wanted.
B:	Like I had three children,
B:	and I mean I, I wanted every one of them.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I'm not sorry I had any of them,
B:	and I worked third shift for a good part of my life just so I would be home with them.
A:	Yeah.
B:	You know, I had to work, but I tried to make it as painless as possible.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	In fact, at one time I worked as a second shift,
B:	and one Saturday morning we were all sitting at the breakfast table,
B:	and the kids were talking, daddy this, daddy that, daddy this, daddy that,
B:	and I was sitting there.
B:	It was like I didn't belong anymore.
B:	And it was because I had worked for about nine months,
B:	and when they were coming home I was going to work.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And I wasn't there at supper time or bed time,
B:	or they couldn't tell me what went on at school because they would be coming in the door,
B:	I would be going out.
A:	Exactly.
B:	So we were,
B:	I felt I was losing my family.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And that's why I said that's it,
B:	I either have to quit or, you know, try something else,
B:	so I went on third shift.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And I worked that shift for eleven years.
A:	Oh, my.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Bless you
B:	Just so that my kids would have me at home.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	You know, and I feel that's very important,
B:	it really is,
B:	and it's too bad because mothers miss out on so much too.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So I mean in the sense that we've come a long way,
B:	yes,
B:	but we've sacrificed a lot to get there.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I, I agree.
B:	And, uh, I really think that if, uh, like after the second World War when women went to work in factories and all that, that was like out of necessity, because the men weren't here anymore.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But then it got to be a point where they got some independence.
A:	And they just enjoyed the income, the extra.
B:	Exactly.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And I notice today kids, you know,
B:	like we had apartments before we had homes.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And we had to walk before we had a car.
A:	Exactly.
B:	And now kids at sixteen years old, they have their birthday,
B:	what do they get,
B:	they get a car.
A:	Oh, I know
B:	And to me, it's like we've lost our values in this country.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	We really have,
B:	and I, I'm not trying to be, uh, you know, a prude or old fashioned or anything, but I, I don't think if you, unless you earn something and you've worked for it, and you have a sense of pride about it,
B:	because while I did this in, you know, no one gave it to me.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	You will take better care of that,
B:	and you will prize that possession. More than someone handing something to you.
A:	Exactly.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And it's just like college too,
B:	I think that if a kid goes to college, and you can help them, fine, but I don't think you should pay the whole way.
A:	See, yeah,
A:	see, now, my parents, there is no way they could afford to send twelve kids to college.
B:	Of course.
A:	And so far there is only two of us that have gone,
A:	and my older brother has paid his entire way,
A:	and I'm on my,
A:	I have six weeks left
A:	and I'll, you know, I'll graduate,
A:	and I paid my entire way,
A:	and that's the way it'll go down the line,
A:	and like I don't have a car because I'm paying for college,
A:	and if I want a car,
A:	my parents always said if we wanted a car, we paid for the car, and we paid for our own insurance,
A:	and I think that's right
A:	because,
B:	Sure,
B:	but I'll bet your values are a lot higher, you know, and your self esteem and the, the way you, uh, you know, think about things is probably a lot more common sense than these kids that don't have that responsibility.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Like I've had my, you know,
A:	like I know kids up here that have their own cars
A:	and money is just given to them,
A:	like they still get their allowance,
A:	they are twenty years old and they still get an allowance.
A:	Well, I have held a summer job, you know, since I, you know, I was in the eleventh grade,
A:	and I have had to take care of my own money,
A:	I have my own checking account,
A:	I pay for my own life insurance,
A:	and I know a lot of kids that don't even know,
B:	Sure,
B:	they probably don't even have any.
A:	Well, if they do, they don't know it, you know
B:	Yeah,
B:	exactly,
B:	and that's what I say, you'll, you'll be so much better off for it as you get older,
B:	because, you know, a lot of kids resent things that parents tell them and stuff,
B:	but it's because you've been there. And no one can tell anyone anything
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Oh, I know.
B:	you know, you are going to find out for yourself,
B:	but I mean I don't think you should just not listen to advice, even if you don't take it, just listen.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	You know, there is no harm in that, whereas sometimes you can't even get that from a kid, you know. Just attention, you know.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But really, uh,
B:	what do you feel the changes in the future, like with the abortions and that type of thing, women in politics and president someday, maybe
A:	Uh.
A:	Actually I think abortion is going to take a turn where there is not going to be as many,
A:	because I think contraceptives are going to be more popular.
A:	I mean I realize that they are popular now,
A:	but I think, I really think people are going to start using more contraceptives
A:	and with the abortion, I don't think there is going to be as many abortions, but I don't know what women will do when they get into politics, you know, about abortion.
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah.
A:	I think it will be freedom of choice.
B:	Well, I still think people have a choice.
B:	You know, if you can live with it, and it's, you know, your conscience is clear then I mean all of us are going to answer to it one day, maybe. Or maybe not.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Exactly, yeah.
B:	I don't know.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I mean no one has said for sure, you know.
A:	Yeah.
B:	But,
B:	Yes,
B:	yes.
B:	Which I mean I think it should be anyway.
A:	I, I do.
A:	I'm Catholic,
A:	and we, we are not supposed to, you know, say that that's okay, but I really feel that it's freedom of choice.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I do.
B:	Because I mean you as an individual, what you do, that to me is your business.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, uh,
A:	And different circumstances call for different things.
B:	Exactly,
B:	exactly,
B:	that's ...
B:	Okay.
A:	Well, I haven't, uh, you know,
A:	when the war was on I watched C N N and, uh, NIGHTLINE pretty regularly and read the paper and all
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but when, uh,
A:	lately, like the last week or two I guess with Easter and spring break with the kids I, um, I hadn't been thinking much about the Middle East and what's going on over there.
A:	Have you been keeping up?
B:	Well, uh, just really the last couple of days since this, uh, the, U N debate or whatever you want to call it that, uh, voted on whether there was going to be a cease fire.
B:	I guess, you know, the thing really isn't over.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	They, uh, they had, uh, kind of, uh, I don't know if you call it standout or whatever
B:	but anyway they stopped and waited to see if Iraq would accept a permanent cease fire situation though.
B:	As I understand it, from the Iraqi point of view this current cease fire thing that the U N, uh, had set up, you know, the Iraqis are probably not going to go for at all, unless they're just absolutely forced to.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Um.
B:	So, I guess, from what I understand the thing could just it could just, they could take off at any moment without, uh, you know, you know, any local, you know, congressional effort or anything else because, you know, it's not really settled yet.
A:	Start up.
A:	There's no official document signed or anything?
B:	Not yet.
B:	Not yet at all.
A:	Well, I, um,
A:	when the, when the crisis began last August I began to think well I, I couldn't remember things that I had studied in the past in school and all
A:	so I got out like my encyclopedias and tried to read about the history.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And it was really, what I felt was kind of cynical
A:	because it
A:	there just hasn't been any peace over there ever In thousands of years, of history.
B:	No.
B:	Yeah.
B:	I don't know, why they expect it's going to start this week, you know.
A:	Yeah.
A:	That's right.
A:	And it just, it's just not people
A:	they,
A:	and it's not, uh, you know,
A:	there isn't any real Arab coalition because they do fight among themselves.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And they fight with each other
A:	and they have such hatred for, uh, Israel
A:	and,
B:	Yeah.
B:	The, uh, the thing that's kind of interesting about this,
B:	my sons in the Air Force.
A:	Oh, yeah.
B:	And, uh, he came within a quarter of an inch of going, uh, to Saudi,
B:	he ended up in Korea instead and because of the way they split a transportation group out in Lubbock.
B:	So he ended up going to Korea
B:	and his buddies ended up going to Saudi.
B:	Well, he's still in Korea and his buddies home now
B:	He, he almost wishes that, that he could have gone home.
A:	And got it over with.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Well, I just,
A:	there's just no way for us to be involved over there and hope that there will be much peace.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, um, with,
A:	and that I'm afraid that we would have to stay.
B:	Yeah.
B:	The thing, uh, the other thing too, when this all started if you, you know, if you did much reading on the thing, you know, Kuwait, the country of Kuwait was just, you know, somebody's uh,
B:	you go back to World War I when the, uh, Ottoman empire broke up and the British and the French and the, yeah, the British and the French mostly decided to carve up that part of the world and call part of it Persia and part of it Iraq and part of it something else, you know,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and they, they split things along, um, geographical lines but they didn't take any kind of consideration into, uh, social or cultural things at all.
A:	Right.
B:	So, the country of, of Kuwait really doesn't make just a whole lot of sense except that it is an excepted place, you know
A:	Yeah.
B:	it's like any other country, you know,
B:	for whatever reason it's, it's actually there.
B:	Well, Iraq has had, uh, designs on that place since nineteen twenty-two
B:	so, you know, it wasn't like something that just suddenly popped up.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And it's just that this was an excuse, you know, to make some noise
B:	Now, something that I read in the paper the other day that I thought was kind of interesting was that the Arab, uh, uh, their version or vision or whatever the United States, now, is somewhat changed in that we won, you know.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Now, now we are a, uh, a legitimate player, in the game over there, you know,
B:	the, the,
B:	I don't think we can really understand their attitude because there cultures are just so much different.
A:	Right.
B:	But, uh, we are now a legitimate player in the, in the, in the game because we came in with a certain amount of force and we, you know we defeated,
B:	you know Iran couldn't do it in seven years
B:	and we went in and did in seven days what Iran couldn't do in seven years, you know.
A:	Right.
B:	So
A:	Right
B:	that kind of ups our stock in there just a little bit.
B:	It makes us more legitimate.
B:	So, now what they're saying is that, well, since we won whatever we say goes because it's, uh, a kind of a might make strike sort of attitude about it
B:	and, you know, we've got the power. Which is why for centuries or hundreds of years the British and the French had so much influence in there
A:	Yeah.
B:	because they'd go in and they'd win something.
A:	Right.
B:	And then, and then they could call the shots for the, you know, period of time until the next strong man came up and, you know and caused problems.
A:	Right.
A:	Well, I just, uh,
A:	I'm not interested in keeping big military over there and having to go and call the shots like you say.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And I just would prefer that, I mean sometimes we've said let's keep, we're not interested in what other countries do.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And then other times we jump in and do things
A:	and while I'm glad that they,
A:	uh, I,
A:	it was important demilitarize that area because of all the build up armaments.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I don't,
A:	I hope we don't try to keep, uh, in there and try to keep our fingers in the pot and try to, stay over there
A:	because we just don't want to send our people there and make them stay.
B:	That's, that's the, uh, that's, that's the big thing, you know,
B:	we still got a little bit of the old, you know, Vietnam, um, problem, you know, in the back of our minds.
B:	We, we got this,
A:	Yeah.
B:	we're, we're used to wars where you can get in do the job and get out.
B:	Vietnam we never did get out, you know, never did get the job done because they were too ham strung .
A:	Yeah.
B:	Uh, this thing
B:	they, they gave the guys, uh, the power and the material and the, told them to go do it and they did it. You know, got in and got out.
A:	Yeah.
B:	I'm not sure,
B:	the, the big fuss that we're going to see now for the next few weeks I would think is, uh, you know, the, uh, the business with the, uh, the Shiites of all people, you know, in the southern part of the country and also the Kurds
B:	because these people evidently are, you know, being killed off by the thousands.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And whether the, the United Nations,
B:	I don't think the U. S. will do it on their own
B:	but whether the United Nations comes around and says, hey, wait a minute we know this thing isn't, uh, all that much over, we've got to go back in there and, and be sure that this large population isn't just wiped out.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Which is, seems to be exactly what's happening right at the moment.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	I noticed that.
B:	But, um, you know,
A:	Well, I don't think there's much hope for a lasting peace over there like they,
B:	No,
B:	there, there never will be.
A:	Yeah.
B:	you know, until we make a decision to do that there won't be peace but I don't think we want to make that decision either.
A:	No.
B:	So that's, that's a little rough, you know,
B:	we're not, we're not quite up to that sort of thing.
A:	No.
B:	So
A:	Well, I guess I better go
A:	I have a repairman just came, for my refrigerator,
B:	Oh
B:	Oh, well, that's, that's fun.
A:	But,
A:	Yeah.
A:	Well, I enjoyed the topic.
A:	I hope you have a good day.
B:	You too.
A:	Okay.
A:	Bye-bye.
B:	Bye-bye.
A:	Okay.
B:	Hi,
B:	I, uh, I like, I love to do, uh, all kinds of crafts and sewing,
B:	I, I find that's my one release
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Um, I like to do like physical things like sports.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Um, I really enjoy softball
A:	and my favorite is volleyball,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and, but, I'm at school,
A:	I'm in, you know,
A:	I I live up at the college, So sometimes it's hard for me to do that,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	so I just, like sometimes,
A:	I like, just to get away,
A:	I go to my room and I like walk in, turn the radio on, or, you know, just kind of like veg out or something.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Well I have two small kids
B:	and so, I, I don't have, you know, much time to, to go places and play sports, you know,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I have to do something where I can do it at home.
B:	So, I'm, uh, I just love to sew
B:	and, uh, you know, I I make a lot of my Christmas presents,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and I love to do all kinds of crafts and stuff like that.
A:	I like to do that stuff, but when I'm in, like when I'm at school, I don't have time to do it or even time to learn how to do it.
B:	No,
B:	I remember when I was in college,
B:	I didn't have time to do that stuff either.
B:	It was really,
A:	Yeah.
B:	But now, you know, I don't have a whole lot of time now but I have more time than I did,
B:	so.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And a lot of my sewing I kind of do out of necessity, you know,
B:	for,
B:	you know, I've got two kids to put clothes on,
B:	so.
A:	Yeah,
A:	exactly,
A:	uh-huh.
A:	Like, um, I have, I come from a family of twelve children,
B:	Oh.
A:	and when I'm up here, I really miss my younger brothers and sisters,
A:	so you know, that's, that's a change, because there's nine of them that are younger than me.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I'll call like when I know my mom and dad aren't home, I'll call home just to talk to my little brothers and sisters.
A:	I, I really miss them a lot
A:	so I don't,
A:	I guess talking on the phone is one of my hobbies too.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I,
B:	yeah,
B:	I just, uh, have, you know, one brother and he's married,
B:	and, you know, they have a couple kids,
B:	so I, you know, I don't have, uh, you know, I don't get on the phone too much.
B:	But, yeah
B:	most of my stuff is just going
B:	you know I enjoy going places with my kids
B:	and I do like sports, but I'm, you know, I don't have a lot of time for them.
B:	My,
B:	I like volleyball.
B:	Of all sports, I think that would be my favorite, because I hate basketball
A:	Yeah,
A:	well, I'm not much of a basketball fan either.
B:	I enjoy playing volleyball but I, you know, I, I don't have a lot of time to do it,
B:	so.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	yeah.
B:	It's maybe once a year or something
B:	an,
B:	and then I, you know, used to play it a lot when I was in school,
B:	but now that I'm married and stuff I, you know I've like, I'm really bad.
B:	Nobody would want me on their team.
B:	I'm the, you know, I'm the opposing teams best player, so, so to speak,
B:	so.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But, yeah,
B:	I enjoy, um, you know, just,
B:	I, you know, I have varied interests and stuff
B:	and yeah,
B:	so.
A:	Yeah,
A:	um, not that I like reading, but I do do a lot of reading while I'm here at school.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Do you like reading as a hobby?
B:	Uh, I love to read, but I, you know, I don't have a lot of time to read an, You know, what reading I do, I kind of do because it's, you know, it's the necessary stuff
A:	Yeah.
B:	as far as fun reading, you know, I maybe get to read the Sunday paper, but, that's about it, you know,
B:	so.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I don't have a lot of time to read.
B:	I, yeah, I remember in college, I did a lot of reading, most of it text books,
B:	so.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, just,
B:	you know keeping busy with everything else going on,
B:	so. But yeah,
B:	I, I like to do, uh,
B:	I've made stuffed cows, you know, dress, you know, dolls,
B:	they're like dolls,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	you know, you make clothes for them and everything like that.
A:	Yeah.
B:	They, those have been real popular with my family.
B:	I've had them calling up and saying, will you make me another one
B:	and, so, I do things like that, you know,
B:	if I had more time, I'd probably do it and sell the stuff
B:	but, you know, I don't have enough time to do it to really, you know, take orders on it,
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	yeah.
B:	you know, it's like I can only do it when I have time.
B:	I have a whole stack of material and patterns to sew up as it is,
B:	so.
A:	Do you, um,
A:	I know one thing that's pretty popular with the girls up here at college, and I make them also, is the padded covered photo albums?
B:	Oh yeah,
B:	uh-huh,
B:	I do,
B:	I've done those too, before,
B:	yeah.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Those are real,
B:	I, I have a several of those that I've made like as wedding gifts, you know.
B:	I made them out of all lace and, and satin, you know, and made them as wedding gifts and stuff like that,
B:	so.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Those are real popular,
B:	in fact, I got some of those for my wedding,
B:	so.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	I know they're real popular here at school, also.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	yeah,
B:	yeah,
B:	those are fun to do,
B:	and just little things, you know,
B:	I, I didn't have a lot of,
B:	when I was in college I did, you know, I did sewing for other people when I had time, you know,
B:	like if somebody needed a bridesmaids, maids dress made, I'd make that,
B:	but that's about all the sewing I did,
B:	I never had time for, you know, to sew myself a new dress or anything like that
B:	so, but, yeah.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I just kind of sew for my kids
B:	and that's about it,
B:	so.
B:	Well, I guess maybe we've covered the topic, pretty good.
A:	Yeah.
A:	I really don't have any other.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I'm not too much, uh, you know,
B:	I don't have a lot of hobbies,
B:	mine are just mostly, you know things I just do out of necessity.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Okay,
B:	well, it's been nice talking to you.
A:	It was nice talking to you too.
B:	Good luck in school.
A:	Thanks.
B:	Bye, bye
A:	Bye, bye.
A:	All right,
A:	do you do garden work?
B:	As little as possible.
B:	I'm a college student
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	so if I do any garden work, it's only when I go home in the Summer.
A:	Oh, where do you go to college?
A:	Where's that?
B:	It's about two hours north of Pittsburgh.
A:	Oh, okay.
B:	Yes.
A:	Yes.
A:	Well, do you, you know, do you do gardening at home?
B:	Yeah,
B:	we go home,
B:	well, we have a large family,
B:	there's twelve kids in my family.
A:	Oh my goodness.
B:	So, like almost all our vegetables and everything is from the garden.
A:	Hm.
B:	So we have a pretty good size garden
A:	Yeah,
A:	well I guess you glad you got to go to college so you'd get some rest
B:	But we have like a lot,
B:	like my mom likes flowers, so we have a lot of flowers too.
A:	Yeah.
A:	I had a whole bunch of flowers and things.
A:	Well, I don't have as many now.
A:	We lived in the country for a long time,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and I had a whole bunch.
A:	But now, I work and I live in the city so, that sort a kind of hung it up.
A:	I have a few flowers, but most of mine are like in barrels and things like that.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And this year I decided that,
A:	well my husband made a little garden out there with some tomatoes and stuff in it,
A:	but I decided that I don't like grass,
A:	I don't like to have to have to pull grass
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	so I decided that I would plant me a tomato plant in a flower pot and see how it worked.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And mine looks real good
B:	You know, I've seen a lot of people that do that.
A:	Yeah.
B:	I've seen, you know, like elderly people that really can't get out too much sometimes.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Like we,
B:	I have a great aunt that lives in a,
B:	it's just like, uh, a high rise for elderly people.
B:	And, you know, she does her own thing and everything,
B:	but she has,
B:	it's like a little apartment building.
B:	And she has a tomato plant year round.
A:	Oh.
B:	Because she, you know,
B:	they keep it warm with, for all the older people,
B:	and she keeps it year round.
A:	I had never thought about that.
A:	I could probably plant one and bring it in, and just like I bring my plants in every year.
A:	That'd be neat.
A:	Well, I got a patio,
A:	and I tried to talk my husband into just buying a whole bunch of pots And planting them all in it, you know, because that's favorite thing, is tomatoes to grow.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And so, um, but he said, No,
A:	he was going to plant in the earth, you know, like he always has,
A:	because he's always had a garden out in the country.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And I think he kind of misses it a little bit, you know, since we moved to the city.
A:	But, um, I went ahead and planted one, and mine looks better than his
A:	It does,
A:	and then I like, um,
A:	you know what day lilies are?
B:	Pardon me?
A:	Day lilies.
B:	Are they, well,
B:	do they just come out in the morning then go
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but we call them Morning Glories up here.
A:	No,
A:	no.
A:	Huh-uh.
A:	These look like a lily.
A:	They look like a, a, well, they really look like an orchid when they come out.
B:	Oh really.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	That what the look like,
A:	but they only bloom for one day.
B:	Oh.
A:	They'll, um,
A:	you'll have a bud the evening before,
A:	and then the next morning as soon as the sun hits it, it it starts opening up
A:	and then when it gets dark, it closes
A:	and that's it.
A:	It only blooms for one day.
B:	And then it's done, completely done.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Oh.
A:	Yeah.
A:	But, um, they look like orchids, is what they look like,
A:	but they look like different color ones,
A:	like I have, uh, yellow ones,
A:	and I have red ones,
A:	and I have purple ones
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and then they have like, you know, the real velvety looking stuff inside
B:	Oh, yeah.
A:	it looks just like orchids in different colors.
A:	That's what they look like.
B:	Oh, really pretty.
A:	They are, they're beautiful.
A:	Uh, I have a friend when I lived out in the country,
A:	and she had belonged to this kind of society that like every year, you know, or every so many months they would send you different bulbs that they came out with.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And I mean they were real expensive.
A:	They were like, well,
A:	the most expensive one that she gave me a bulb for was like thirty-two fifty for one bulb.
B:	Oh, my gosh.
A:	So what she would do is she would plant them, and they multiplied.
A:	So the next year when she, you know, weeded them out so they wouldn't be as thick, then she'd give me some of the bulbs.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, I mean, I have some of the most beautiful day lilies that you've ever seen.
A:	So, when we decided to move, it was really funny because, like I said, I had a whole bunch of different kinds of things,
A:	and I kept saying, Well, I want to take a few of these, and I want to take these, and I want to take these.
A:	My husband finally said, Look, are we going to take the grass?
A:	Can we leave the grass?
A:	I said, Yes, we may leave that.
B:	take the whole grass, the whole yard.
A:	And we had a tree that was like seventeen foot tall, or something like that, that he said, No, no, I am not taking the tree.
A:	You know, I mean, every time we went outside, he'd look at something that was humongous, you know,
A:	No,
A:	we're not taking that.
A:	But the last day, he said, Can't we leave the grass,
A:	and I said, Yeah,
A:	I think we will leave that.
B:	That'd be funny.
A:	But, I brought,
A:	my kids, when they were little they had given me some azaleas so I brought all my azalea bushes.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And you know, I brought, I brought as much as I could bring without, you know, really tearing up their place.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	But, just like, um, you know,
A:	the people that bought ours, bought the place, but, um, I knew that they would, you know,
A:	if I left like one bulb of each one of them, by this year they'd have ten bulbs of each one of them.
B:	Yeah.
A:	So, it wasn't like it was going to be this big raw place or something, you know,
A:	it would cover it right up.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	But, I just couldn't see it, you know, going off and leaving everything like that.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Because this house, I really liked it and everything, but the yard was a lot to be desired.
A:	Oh there was nothing.
B:	Oh.
A:	These people,
A:	we have one ugly pine tree.
A:	I mean, and it is ugly.
A:	I even tried making it look nicer, you know,
A:	I tied the yellow ribbon around it,
A:	and it was so ugly.
A:	Oh, it did not help, let me tell you.
A:	I took it off and put it on my door.
A:	I did not want to call attention.
A:	I mean, it was terrible.
A:	So really the plants that I brought over and put out here are just about all.
A:	I don't do any of the mowing or, you know, edging and all that
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	My husband does all that stuff.
A:	But that's because I'm allergic to the grass.
B:	Oh, that'd be awful.
B:	I love going out in the Summer in the grass.
A:	Really.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Now I like to go to the beach where the sand is,
A:	because then it doesn't make me ill
B:	Yeah.
B:	And, um, well even up here at school, you know, it gets hot, and we have the windows open,
B:	well they mow the grass up here sometimes six o'clock in the morning.
B:	And just to smell the grass, it's just,
B:	I just love the smell of freshly cut grass.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I used to until it, I got so allergic to it.
A:	I don't know if it's all, well,
A:	I went and had some tests run and just about all the kinds I was allergic to.
A:	But it's not as bad here,
A:	like Saint Augustine, I think, is what we have.
A:	And it's not as bad as it was when we were out in the country.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	But out in the country, I mean,
A:	if I went outside while he was mowing the grass, I was going to have a gigantic attack.
B:	Oh my gosh.
A:	So, um, I get shots for it now, too.
A:	That helps a whole bunch.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	But, one good thing about it, see I don't have to mow the grass
A:	or
A:	I mean, that's really nice.
B:	Yeah,
B:	you said that you had a garden.
B:	What all things do you plant in it,
B:	or do you like to plant in it?
A:	Well, the first thing we always plant is tomatoes
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	every year.
A:	I don't care if we don't have anything else,
A:	we're going to have tomatoes.
A:	And then we plant cucumbers
A:	and,
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	do your cucumbers come good?
A:	Oh yeah.
B:	Really.
B:	Sometimes when my dad has, like,
B:	that's the one thing no one is allowed to touch except my dad.
B:	He takes care of all the cucumbers,
B:	because he said the vines are just so,
B:	at our house, as soon as you touch a vine, it's like it completely dies.
A:	Really,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	It must be the, uh,
B:	Sometimes we have really good luck with them,
B:	but then there'll be like maybe two years in a row that we can't get anything.
A:	Now that's, I mean, that's something that grows like a weed here.
B:	Oh, wow.
A:	I mean, it grows like a weed.
A:	We have to allow extra room for those, because, you know, I mean extra space,  between the rows and all.
B:	Yeah
B:	because they take up a lot.
A:	Yes,
A:	but I mean, we usually get, I mean, just pulling them as fast as you can.
B:	Holy smoke.
A:	We usually give them to everybody.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Anybody that wants a cucumber can have it.
A:	But we tried it, too, where you run it up a fence
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and, um, we had some weird cucumbers because they grew inside the fence.
A:	I mean like the little thing would be half on one side and half on the other.
B:	Oh my gosh.
A:	I mean, it was,
A:	but they're so heavy, you know,
A:	they get so heavy they kind of weigh it down.
A:	But, I mean, cucumbers here grow like crazy.
B:	Wow.
A:	Of course it's real hot here too.
B:	Well, see, tomatoes grow like crazy at our house.
B:	Like we have a section of tomatoes,
B:	and we put the tomatoes there every year, in the same section.
B:	And I swear we get tomatoes six rows up.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah,
A:	now if we have any, like the birds will pick or something, you know,
A:	and some of the seeds drop.
A:	Have you ever had them just come up in different places?
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I know, we do that, too, you know,
A:	and at the first year,
A:	because I was from the city when we got married,
A:	and the first year that we planted, I couldn't figure out, I mean, the,
A:	well, the first year after I mean, we planted them,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but the first year, you know, after we'd had a crop all these little things like,
B:	Yeah.
A:	we had cucumbers coming up, you know, in the middle of our okra,
A:	and I thought, how did this get here
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I know I didn't put that seed there.
A:	And it was weird, but the birds had, you know, evidently just deposited them for us.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	and we usually, you know, we just dump it in the middle of the garden, you know, after your garden's basically done
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and we're finding out,
B:	like we have peach trees in the middle of our garden now, because we took peach seeds and dump them there, whenever the garden,
B:	like in the Fall,
B:	now we have peach trees coming up,
A:	All right,
A:	do you want to start out?
B:	Well, it'll be real easy for us,
B:	because we're both, my husband and I are vegetarians.
A:	Oh, are you really?
B:	So, yeah.
B:	So that's the first thing we look for,  is if we can eat there or not.
A:	Oh.
A:	Are you strict vegetarians?
B:	We're not vegan vegetarians.
B:	We do, we're ovolacto.
B:	We do eat, uh, eggs and, and milk products.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I used to be a complete vegan vegetarian,  where I didn't eat any animal products at all.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But, um, it was, it's really difficult in the area if you don't have, you know, the products that you can get.
B:	And if you go out to dinner, there's virtually, you know, there's not a whole lot of things you can get.
A:	There's very few places that you, I'll bet that you could, uh,
B:	Yeah.
B:	I think maybe if you were somewhere like California, where they have a lot more vegetarian restaurants and stuff.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But here, basically, you go to an Italian restaurant or you go to a Mexican restaurant,  you know, where you can get foods that, you know, where you have a little bit more variety as far as the pastas or the the corn meal, you know,  or something.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
A:	And you wouldn't have the meat products in that
A:	and some.
A:	Yeah.
B:	yeah,
B:	you have to watch that too.
B:	All, you know, some of the restaurants here they will, you know,
B:	you can ask them and they'll tell you whether or not they use like lard or,  you know, animal fat to cook with.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So, but, so that's, that
B:	we don't really eat out too much.
A:	Yeah.
B:	We, we tend to eat at home.
B:	And actually, you know, I think we, we, we get a we have a healthier diet than the average person.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	How long have you been doing this?
B:	Um, I've been a vegetarian for, uh, two years now.
B:	My husband has been one for, oh, just over a year now.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, uh, so,
A:	Do you feel that it has improved the way you feel?
B:	Definitely.
A:	Do you think?
B:	And it, it makes you more aware of what you're eating.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Because you, you have to be.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I mean, you, you
B:	I think you, you, you balance the foods, uh, you know,
B:	you're more aware of what nutrient, you know, value each thing has,  and minerals.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And you're just more aware of food for energy,  for energy sake.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	I always thought it would be hard to figure what to eat if you were a vegetarian.
A:	How, how,
B:	Well, that's just it,
B:	you, you do have to figure it out. And, and, you know, to get proteins and things.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And when I was a vegan, it's, you know,
B:	you have to consider calcium and iron and things like that you, you're not even getting through your milk products,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	your egg products. If you don't eat any of those,
A:	Because you don't eat any of those things.
B:	but actually you can get everything you need through vegetables.
B:	I mean, there are there are, there are,
B:	you actually you can get more calcium through leafy green vegetables than you can get through milk products.
A:	Is that right?
B:	A lot of people don't know that.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Well, the thing is that milk products,
B:	our bodies don't, uh, don't, uh,
B:	the lactose,
B:	that kind of milk, it doesn't,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	our,
B:	we, we tend to, uh,
B:	what's it called?
B:	We don't synthesize the, the calcium the same way.
A:	We, we throw more of it off our out, in other words.
B:	Yeah.
B:	We, we slough some of it,
B:	we, we send, we send some of it out because it, our body doesn't accept some of it.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So we're not utilizing, we're,
B:	when it, when it gets rid of some of that, um, that we can't use, it get rids, it gets rid of some of the calcium. Whereas when we eat, say broccoli, you utilize all of it.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	You
B:	your, your body accepts all of the broccoli.
A:	All that's in it.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So, it's like,  it's like, say, a person using vitamins, as opposed to, uh, vitamin supplements as opposed to eating regular food.
A:	Why?
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Your body just doesn't accept vitamins and the minerals in the, the vitamins in, uh, supplements that it does in regular food,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	you know. So,
A:	That's interesting.
B:	But we both, we both feel much healthier,  much healthier.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And I couldn't consider going back to eating,
A:	After you have been on this.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Well, now I changed for ethical reasons.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And my husband has changed.
B:	He feels more ethically about it.
B:	But he, he in the beginning, began for health reasons.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But, um, now he, he feels like I do.
B:	That he looks at the things that he eats
B:	and he realizes what they are before he eats them.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And he,  you know,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	He thinks more about them, then.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Plus he eats,
B:	we both think more about, I thought more of about it as far as what it was I was eating, you know,  as a living creature.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And now we both think a lot of well, what is it we're eating in relation to what it's going to give to our bodies.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	So you kind of have a combination.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Well see, we, I live in a farming community. So, of course we have a lot of animals and that type of thing raised in our area.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Well, we do too.
B:	I mean, I was raised in, um,
B:	we're in cattle country.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And people here buy a half a cow and put it in their freezer,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Oh, yeah,
A:	yeah.
B:	you know. And that's, that's the way I,
B:	and I,
B:	believe you me it wasn't easy to give up  to give up a hamburger.
B:	That, that was one of my favorite foods, was, was a, a, was a good steak or a hamburger.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But, you know, I suppose if you really believe in something it's, You, you adjust your life
A:	You get adjusted to the taste.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	because your mind.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	inside yourself you just, it's not right.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So, but, um,
A:	So you would have a little more trouble when you were looking for a dining area than what most most people would.
A:	Now we wouldn't have that problem, because we're not vegetarians.
B:	So what do you look for when you,
A:	Uh, I think the main thing that I look for is, uh, cleanliness, uh, you know, the, in the appearance of the people that work there. And the, uh, quality of the food that they serve.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Do you normally, when you're traveling, do you look for places that's established, that, that you've been to before or are you willing to try new places?
A:	Yes.
A:	Oh, we try new places
A:	but when we,
A:	a lot of times we do eat where we know.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Like a chain restaurant or something.
A:	What,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	What the quality,
A:	because a lot of them are the same no matter where you stop.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, we do, do that a lot.
A:	And I guess I'm getting old, older,
A:	also I like to be served.
A:	I like to sit down and have my, uh, order taken.
B:	As opposed to like a cafeteria kind of situation?
A:	Right,
A:	yeah.
B:	Yeah.
A:	So, I suppose you'd say I,
A:	well I, I don't know whether it's age or what it is.
A:	But I have,
B:	Well no,
B:	I don't think so.
B:	I think it's just your,
B:	because I, I prefer to be waited on too.
B:	I just,
B:	if you're going to go out to eat, why not have the whole service,  you know?
A:	Yeah,
A:	Yeah.
B:	Why not get the whole,
B:	I guess because we don't go out that much,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I feel like it's a treat.
A:	You should have a treat.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And I like the light meals.
A:	Not all restaurants have light meals on their menu,  you know.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And I,
B:	Oh.
B:	Light menu, you mean like cooked light or,
A:	Uh, L I T E, like, uh, uh, things that aren't as heavy a meal.
B:	Oh, I see.
A:	It,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	that, you get more, uh, fruit and maybe cottage cheese or a chicken breast or things that aren't as, uh,
A:	they're not breaded
A:	and they're not fried
A:	and they're not,
B:	Not a lot of gravy and things like that.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Uh, but it's not  all rest,
B:	You know, I,  I like those too.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I like those too, because, uh, some, seems like sometimes it's, you order a meal, you order their dinner meal, and it's like they're trying to find out how much you can eat.
B:	Or
A:	I know
B:	or
A:	it's too much,
A:	yes.
B:	Or, or like evidently people go in there and they're not satisfied that they'd been given enough and they complain
B:	and maybe they're afraid that people are going to, complain or something.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	I don't know what it is.
A:	But, now for instance, we, we had a Scout dinner last night we went to.
A:	And it's, it's
A:	they, uh, well they'll serve you at your seat
A:	and usually the salad bar is included,
A:	so you have to get up for that.
A:	But they have so much food that you, not matter how hard you try to restrain yourself, you end up eating much more than you need.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	And I think that's a shame.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I mean, I must admit, sometimes I do like a buffet.
B:	But, uh, but I think that they just tend to make you, you say, Oh, well, I've have got all I can eat
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	or, or, you know, it's one of these situations where nobody's going to restrain what you eat,  the amount that you eat.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And I think that that we just tend to eat, overeat.
A:	Yeah.
A:	You can eat as much as you want and you like the food, you know.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Uh, a lot of times the foods,
A:	like, uh, Haas's carry a bread bar that is just out of this world
A:	And, you know,
B:	Yeah.
A:	you
A:	and soup
A:	and, uh, they just,
A:	and fruit and vegetables
A:	and they, they just,
A:	I don't know.
A:	I know I always overeat no matter.
A:	I go with good intentions,
A:	but I,
A:	somehow along the way, when I come back to my seat, I have too much.
A:	And I eat it because it's so good.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Well at least it's fruit and stuff there
A:	Yeah
B:	Maybe it's not too bad.
A:	And I like reasonable prices of course, too.
A:	I don't like to, you know, go to anything that's real expensive.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I think that's a waste of my money.
B:	Just for food,  it does seem like it.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah.
B:	But, uh,
A:	So,
B:	We like, uh, we do like international food,
B:	so we take,
A:	Do you?
B:	I like
B:	we like Indian food,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, uh, I love Italian food,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, uh,
A:	Chinese?
B:	Chinese
B:	but,
A:	We've got a good Chinese restaurant in town.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I, I really like eating there
A:	and, and you don't get stuffed on their food it seems.
B:	Yeah.
A:	You know, you can eat a whole big plate of their food, and you really don't feel like you've eaten too much.
A:	You're full, you know,
A:	you're satisfied,
B:	Yeah.
A:	but you don't feel stuffed and miserable.
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah.
B:	That's one thing that I wish we had more of, uh.
B:	Because where we're from, it's, it's pretty limited,
B:	and it's,
B:	most of the restaurants are, oh, they tend to be, you know, American style food.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And we don't have too many,
B:	you have to go all the way to Dallas.
A:	Um.
B:	And so it really is a treat,
A:	Uh, yeah.
B:	because, uh,
A:	Yeah.
B:	you know, we don't make a trip, sixty-five, eighty, you know, sixty-five to eighty miles. Depending how far in Dallas it is.
A:	Yeah.
A:	So what movies have you seen?
B:	Uh, well, I have, uh, seen DANCES WITH WOLVES, which is probably the, the best movie that I have seen lately.
B:	Uh, I do not go out to films very often. So, as far as out of the house.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So we do get a lot of videos that we bring in,
B:	uh, and I see some that way.
B:	But, uh, I am not real current on films.
B:	How about you?
A:	Yeah.
A:	I saw DANCES WITH WOLVES and, uh, HOME ALONE
A:	and,
B:	I hear that is really good, but I have not seen it yet.
A:	Yeah.
A:	It is.
B:	Yeah
A:	It is about a little kid that, that his parents go off to Paris.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And they, they forget all about him.
A:	The oldest daughter, they take a head count and the oldest daughter counts one of the neighbor kids instead of,
B:	Oh, cute.
A:	And he is up in the attic asleep because he got in trouble.
B:	Oh, dear.
A:	So she made him go sleep upstairs.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And there is, there is a couple of burglars, uh, breaking into the houses in the neighborhood.
B:	Oh,
A:	And, uh,
B:	Oh, and he hears them or something
B:	and,
A:	Yeah.
A:	And he sets up traps for them all over the house.
B:	Who wins?
A:	Uh, he does.
B:	Oh, great,
B:	great.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I had heard people talk about it,
B:	and they say it was really cute, but I had not seen it.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh, we usually wait
B:	and eventually it comes out on video,
B:	and then we get it and see it that way.
A:	Right.
B:	And that is, it,
B:	movies are very expensive.
B:	Uh, movie theatres here, they are six dollars, uh, for evening performances.
B:	And that is kind of steep,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I think.
B:	I don't know.
B:	How much is it in Dallas?
A:	Well, it is six dollars,
A:	and then but you get, um, matinee prices.
A:	But,
B:	Yeah.
B:	You can do that, but it is difficult if you, if you work or, you know,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	uh, that is taking the middle of the afternoon.
B:	And if I am looking for entertainment usually I, I, have more, uh, time in the evening than I do in the middle of the day to, uh, see things.
B:	What do you think of movies in general?
B:	As far as the, as the trends?
A:	Well, I think they are a lot better than they than they were,
A:	well, like, um, in the early eighties or the, during the, like the SMOKEY AND THE BANDIT era.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	When it was,
A:	they,
A:	I do not think they were very good during that time.
B:	Yeah.
A:	At least there were not as many good ones.
B:	Did,
B:	Yeah.
B:	The quality I think maybe has improved in that respect.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh, the only thing that disturbs me is that now they think they have to add just a little bit of sex and violence in order to get a, a tougher rating. Which suggests that, that, you know, it will be more enticing to the, to the public.
B:	And a lot of times it is added for no real, uh, valid reason.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh, which does not make,
B:	and I think SMOKEY AND THE BANDIT was a little bit like that.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Uh, but DANCES WITH WOLVES did not seem to have anything added.
B:	It was just all legitimate kind of, uh, film.
B:	And that is where reason why I suppose it won so many Oscars, uh,
B:	because it really was good even though it is such a long movie.
B:	You know, they said, "Oh, people won't, won't be interested in a three hour movie." But it certainly gotten good acclaim everywhere it has gone.
A:	And it was shocking at the end too.
A:	So,
B:	Oh, oh, yeah.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Absolutely.
B:	Uh, but much more true to life
B:	and I think that is, that is the point.
A:	Yeah.
A:	That is right.
B:	Uh, they do not have to keep making up stuff if they want to make something good.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I hate sequels too.
B:	I hate these, uh, you know, number one, two, three, four.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Usually if a movie is good, once is enough
A:	Yeah.
A:	Especially JAWS.
B:	Right.
B:	That was on Prime Time Television here, uh, recently at seven thirty in the evening.
B:	And, uh, it was kind of shocking because that is a scary movie. And children, young children could see, could have seen that movie, uh, at that hour.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And I thought, that, you know, that would not have been the sort of thing I would have wanted my children to see at that age, uh, I mean when they were young.
B:	And here it was quite easily seen by anybody that turned on the T V.
A:	Right.
B:	Uh, which was a,
B:	it was a good movie.
B:	I mean it was well done but, uh, that is one reason why it was scary.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So, but I do not know that I have seen any of the, uh, sequels to that.
B:	I think one is enough.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Uh,
A:	Just more of the same.
B:	That is what people say.
A:	In one of them they have a mother shark, uh, destroy a whole, uh, marina and aquarium. Which is kind of far fetched.
B:	Oh.
B:	Yeah.
B:	It,
B:	just a touch.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Well, the whole movie is kind of far fetched.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But, I mean the whole idea behind it is far fetched.
A:	They hardly ever play music when a shark attacks somebody.
B:	Not, not too often
A:	Yeah.
B:	That has gotten to be a whole camp idea now though, you know.
B:	If you hear that music, you know, everybody knows what you are talking about.
A:	Yeah.
B:	It's funny.
B:	Well, it sounds like neither one of us are real movie buffs.
A:	Well, uh, every once in a while, I go, but it, it has to be like somebody that I like
A:	or,
B:	Yeah.
A:	you know. I did not, I did not go see FIELD OF DREAMS when it was in the theatre because I did not know it was any good.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And then when it was, I, I found out it was Kevin Costner when it was on, um, I guess A B C the other week,
A:	then I,
B:	Right.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
A:	And then I really liked it.
B:	It was good.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	It was very good.
B:	But, uh, um, uh, see I have, uh, teenagers in my house.
B:	And of course sometimes they rent movies and, you know, have friends over or something.
B:	And sometimes movies are here that I did not, I am not even aware that I could have seen, you know.
B:	Because my family tells me that, that, that it had been actually in the house before
A:	Huh.
B:	But I had missed it.
B:	But I did see it on T V,
B:	and I thought it was good.
A:	Yeah.
A:	It was really,
A:	and then, and then, uh, Shoeless Joe Jackson really was a player.
A:	I thought they made him up, and then I found out, you know, after I saw the movie that, they, they started talking about that scandal
A:	and,
B:	Oh, really?
A:	Yeah,
A:	when the, when the anniversary came up
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	that was around the time of anniversary, you know.
B:	No kidding.
A:	And then it was on the news.
B:	Oh, I did not realize that.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Uh, you know, the character that, uh, James Earle Jones played?
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh, uh, I teach in school,
B:	and we are doing a book called INVISIBLE MAN by Ralph Ellison.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And I wondered if maybe he was patterned after him.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Uh, I do not know,
B:	I had not heard anybody talk about it.
B:	But, uh, he certainly could have been. Uh, which was kind of interesting. You know, someone who, uh, who was a real activist but then took up the cause. Uh, kind of gave up, you know, because he did not think anything was happening,
A:	Yeah.
B:	and so, uh, it was kind of fun.
A:	Yeah.
A:	And I wondered who it was too.
B:	I do not know for sure,
B:	but there are certain, uh, qualities that suggest it could be he.
B:	Because they were, uh, they were suggesting that this Ben was something of a recluse.
B:	That he had stopped writing and had stopped, you know,
B:	and that is true for Ellison.
B:	He, he wrote that one book and a few essays and that is about it. And, uh, has pretty much dropped out of public life.
A:	Huh.
B:	But he is still alive
B:	and that, you know, that is what makes it so interesting.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And that book, have you ever read that book? INVISIBLE MAN.
A:	Uh, I
A:	What is that?
A:	INVISIBLE MAN?
B:	INVISIBLE MAN by Ralph Ellison.
A:	Uh, no.
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	It is an incredible book.
B:	It, uh, really is very, very interesting.
B:	I highly recommend it.
A:	Uh, did they make the movies after that
A:	or,
B:	Uh, the,
B:	yeah,
B:	the movie,
B:	the
B:	in
B:	FIELD, FIELD OF DREAMS came out after, uh, that novel.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So it could easily have been patterned after him.
B:	But the, the movie did not have anything to do with, with the story that I am talking about.
B:	But
A:	Right.
B:	I just thought the the, uh, author could have been patterned after that, uh,
B:	I mean that character could have been patterned after him or someone like him, certainly.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Sort of interesting,
B:	so. Well, I guess we have talked probably our time limit, haven't we?
A:	Oh, yeah.
B:	Okay.
A:	Okay.
A:	It was Nice talking to you.
B:	Very good.
B:	It was nice talking to you.
B:	Okay.
B:	Bye-bye.
A:	Bye-bye.
A:	Are you in the market for a car recently?
B:	Yeah,
B:	I just bought a car.
A:	Oh, what did you get?
B:	I got a nineteen ninety-three Cavalier station wagon.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	what, what convinced you to get that one?
B:	Well, a friend of my father's, and he'd driven it all over the country and it runs great.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Oh, incredible,
A:	how many miles on it?
B:	It's like, it has a hundred and fifty-three thousand.
A:	And it's still running real well.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Oh, great,
A:	yeah.
A:	We have, uh, right now we have two cars, uh,
A:	I have, my husband and myself and we have two sons who are drivers and one of which is a, um, an eighty-eight Plymouth Voyager Van,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and then we have, um,
A:	about a year ago, we picked up a second hand, uh, uh, Audi
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and, uh, that was a you know, a sedan,
A:	and, uh, we got that.
A:	The major things,
A:	the reason why we got that is we had had a Nova,
A:	and a,
A:	well,
A:	my son was driving,
A:	and someone came into his lane and hit him,
A:	and fortunately he was able to,
A:	his,
A:	I mean he was checked out of the hospital, was out of the hospital by that night, but the car was completely totalled
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and Mike, and, they had been, my two sons had been a passenger in a car about a year and a half before that, which was hit by another car.
B:	Um.
A:	So I mean, I got, I was getting really nervous,
A:	so I finally said, we, I want a really solid car.
A:	So we found the Audi second hand.
A:	I guess right now my criteria for cars is, uh, of being solid, able to take an impact
B:	Right.
A:	and, uh, so, uh, I, we're not going to be in the market for, in the near future for any new car.
B:	Uh-huh
A:	But the things that I would want would be a solid car.
A:	Another thing I'd definitely want would be anti-lock brakes.
B:	Right.
A:	Uh, our, our van, which is a, a delight to drive, does not have,
A:	I think the brakes on the Plymouth van is just, are terrible.
B:	Um.
A:	If the road is at all wet, and I'm,
A:	and I don't go all that fast, but the, uh, it, it just doesn't hold.
A:	It doesn't hold well at all.
A:	So, I, I definitely want to get anti lock brakes.
A:	So, I don't know,
A:	do you have any particular things that, that are priorities on your list.
B:	Well, it's,
B:	I didn't really need power windows, but it has power, you know, windows and steering and air conditioning,
A:	Yeah.
B:	and, and uh.
A:	I guess down here air conditioning's a must, isn't it.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	oh, yeah.
B:	It has a stereo and a cassette player
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, um, he's told me it gets forty-two miles to the gallon.
A:	That's incredible.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	That is incredible.
B:	So.
A:	Uh, we, we get about, our, the van gets, on highways, can get about twenty-eight.
A:	The Audi does not have good mileage.
A:	That's the one drawback.
A:	It's a powerful car. Um, but it does not, uh,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I mean, I, if I'm on a highway and I can get twenty, twenty-one miles per gallon, I consider that I'm lucky.
A:	Maybe, maybe sometimes I've gotten twenty-two.
A:	It comes out around the eighteen or nineteen local driving
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and that's a, to me is a real drawback.
A:	I wish I would, you know, I could settle for twenty-eight,
A:	but, uh, the, uh, the frills on that car are nice, but they're not necessary, for me except air conditioning.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	In this area, uh, in Washington D C area, it gets hot and humid.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	it's really humid.
A:	Yeah,
A:	uh, so air conditioning is uh, definitely a necessity for us through two or three months in the summer.
A:	Um, but I, uh, I, I don't need, uh, you know,
A:	power windows are nice, but I don't need them Although I must say when you're driving in the east and there are all these toll roads, come into a toll road, you just push that button down,
B:	Right.
A:	it's real nice for that window to zip down and zip up, instead of having to crank it.
B:	Crank,
B:	yeah.
A:	Yeah,
A:	but, or, you know, if you want to have open windows, to be able to
A:	if you're alone in the car just to press buttons, and.
B:	Right.
B:	You don't have to stretch.
A:	But you know, I've lived all these years without them,
A:	I probably could have lived a little longer
B:	That's true.
A:	Uh, one of the things that we have, uh, we've liked when we gotten a new car, and this, this used car has it, is a sun roof
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and those are really nice in good weather.
B:	That's right.
A:	So, so I guess if we get a new car, it definitely would have to have anti lock brakes,
A:	I'd love to get an air bag and a sun roof, and, uh, just so it'd be a good solid car.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I guess that those are my major criteria.
A:	Everything else is, you know, a luxury,
A:	and they, make the car more expensive, but they often add more things to repair when things go wrong.
B:	Right.
A:	So, uh, if you were to buy a new car now, a brand new car, what would you look for?
B:	Um, like you said, anti-lock brakes and air bag,
B:	and, uh, I'd, I'd really like to have a car that's dependable that, that you drive, you know, like a American made car that's as dependable as Mercedes or somebody, you know that's,
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah.
A:	Isn't that true.
A:	It's, it's funny, um, uh, that you use,
A:	the Audi's German, and I have to say, it has been pretty dependable.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah,
A:	sometimes, one advantage of an American made car, is if you get stuck anywhere, most local garages can fix you up.
B:	Yeah,
B:	they have parts,
B:	uh-huh.
A:	But once you get, if you, once you get something fancy, you get stuck somewhere off of the main area you can be really,
B:	Right,
A:	and the parts, I know the Audi parts are terribly expensive.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I mean, it
A:	I shudder.
A:	I would not get the Audi again, just for that reason.
A:	But I would love, I wish an American, an American, that, you know, engineering would make something as solid as a German car.
A:	You know, we certainly have the technology,
B:	Right.
A:	but, it's amazing,
A:	when we bought this Audi,
A:	I mean, everything is more solid in it.
B:	Right.
A:	Uh, if,
A:	you don't feel you've got any of the flabby plastic
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and I know,
A:	and I, I, and I'm willing to give up a little bit in the mileage for a solid car.
A:	I don't think I have to give up as much as I'm giving up.
B:	Right.
A:	But, do you need air conditioning down there?
B:	Yes,
B:	we really do
A:	Yeah.
B:	because even today it's supposed to get up into the nineties.
B:	So
A:	Oh, we've had eleven days in a row over ninety.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	They've in fact had to excuse school down here because of that.
A:	Well, listen,
A:	I enjoyed talking with you.
A:	Okay,
A:	and enjoy, enjoy your car.
B:	Yeah,
B:	have a nice summer.
A:	Thank you,
A:	you too,
A:	it's going to be a hot one.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Okay,
A:	bye-bye
B:	Bye-bye.
A:	Do you have any?
B:	I'm trying to think offhand
B:	I can't think of anything, you know.
A:	I have, I have one,
B:	Okay.
A:	and it's a real pet peeve of mine.
A:	It seems I, I do work during the day
A:	and when I'm home, uh, you know I'm either cooking or running doing, things or, uh, laundry or stuff.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And I hate when the phone rings and it turns out to be a telephone salesman.
B:	Oh
A:	And it's real,
A:	the two pet peeves that,
A:	number one, I really feel that that's my private, you know, my own home.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And I
A:	and if I want something, I will get it.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I will go out and get it myself.
A:	And I will never, I never buy anything from a telephone, salesperson.
B:	Oh, I wouldn't, either,
B:	no.
A:	So, I really feel that it is a real invasion, they're invading my time and my space by, you know, interfering in whatever I'm doing
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and I,
A:	it really bothers me.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Um, it's a little bit like junk mail but except you can't, you know, ignore it, uh, quite as easily.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And I, I try to be polite,
A:	but at the same point,
B:	That doesn't always work.
A:	Well, I just say thank you very much for calling but I'm not interested,
A:	and then I hang up before they can say anything.
B:	Oh, really?
A:	Yes,
A:	and it works very well
B:	Oh
A:	Because you don't hear, you know how,
A:	they can say anything they want
A:	it's just,
A:	but I just feel that's my big thing on the invasion of, my thing on invasion of privacy.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, um, I have, uh, I sort of have a sort like
A:	you can prevent yourself from getting junk mail by getting yourself off of mailing lists.
A:	I wish that there were a way that you could, um, get your you know, submit your telephone number to the phone company and have a penalty for anyone who calls you to sell things, from a
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	well, how do you get your name off the junk mailing list?
A:	Uh, you, you, you, you do that by, uh, um,
A:	the postal service has some information which you fill out and they send,
A:	it's for every company,
A:	I mean you can't do it for any
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	you know, but you can then send it
A:	and they can
A:	they tell,
A:	that company is not allowed to sent it, you any junk mail.
B:	Oh, really?
A:	If you get junk mail on a regular basis from any particular company you can,
B:	Oh, I didn't even know that.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah,
A:	you have to go to the post office and ask them for the form that you fill out to, not to get, you know, junk mail from specific companies.
B:	Oh, wow.
A:	And I wish there were something like that where you can call the telephone company
B:	Yeah.
A:	and you could say that, uh, have your your number put in a registry.
A:	And then anyone making these calls have to check that registry for that area and could not, should, and is not allowed under penalty of, you know, being reported or something to call you.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah.
A:	So that would be one way of doing it.
B:	I can't really think of anything that invades my privacy,
B:	but one of my pet peeves, you came up with the telephone is, when you have an answering machine and they hang up before they leave a message.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I can't stand that.
B:	because,
A:	Oh, I'm guilty of that sometimes
A:	because I've called and there really wasn't any significant message
A:	and I, and I wasn't going to be available to be called back.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And it was sort of like, oh, the hell,
A:	I'm not going to spend the time giving, leaving a message,
A:	and, uh, I'll call later, if I'm available.
B:	Yeah.
A:	The other thing that, um, that there is recourse to and that's another thing, is when you, you use your credit card and then they ask for a telephone number.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Well, legally now they're not allowed,
A:	they're
A:	you do not have to give a telephone number.
B:	Oh, really?
A:	Yes.
A:	And I don't really like announcing in public
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	you know, when you're sitting there,
A:	my telephone and I don't like the way telephone numbers can be used.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	We once had a situation where someone was using a credit card number of ours and he actually had our phone number,
A:	but it turned out it had to have been my husband's office phone number.
A:	And, uh, we were able, we weren't actually able to trace it, but we were able to, to discard the charges.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Um, but it was,
B:	I don't like how they
B:	the,
B:	I, I realize that this is your identification
B:	but I worked with someone that got hold of his, charge cards, and his social security number.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah,
A:	same with my husband.
A:	It was the charge card and social security number.
B:	And, you know, I don't, I don't like, I don't ever get anything over the phone because I don't want to give my social security number out.
A:	Well, you should never give the social security number.
A:	Uh, if sometimes, if you charge,
A:	sometimes I charge theater tickets over the phone.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And then, you know, because they pick them up at the box office we'll call.
A:	But, um, that's the only thing I would ever have ever used it for the phone
A:	and that was because I initiated it.
B:	Yes.
A:	Uh, and occasionally I do order things from catalogs over the phone.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	But again it's, I initiate it not the company.
A:	The other thing is though you do not have to,
A:	if you're buying something in a store and they and you pay for it by charge and they ask you for your telephone number, you do not have to give it.
A:	That is one, that's a law that went into effect, I don't know a year or two ago.
B:	Oh, I never even knew that.
A:	And, uh, you can just say I'm sorry that uh, I'm not required to give that by law
A:	and then they won't,
A:	a lot of stores will still ask.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	But, uh, the credit card company, you know, accepts the charges.
A:	I mean
A:	a
A:	the credit cards company's responsibility.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Well, is there any, like pet peeves that you have that don't necessarily invade your privacy?
A:	So in this ,
A:	Um, well, this would, this is limited to the privacy issue, the invasion of privacy.
B:	Oh, okay.
A:	Yeah,
A:	and I guess, uh, that was my, that's probably my biggest one in terms of invasion of privacy. For people outside the family, of course,
A:	I've got little pet peeves, you know, with my family.
A:	You know. But of course,
A:	I guess that just comes with the, uh, with the territory with a family that
A:	does a mother can do some privacy.
B:	I really, can't think of any that would invade my privacy you know.
A:	But, uh,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Nothing that you felt that, you know,
A:	any experiences you've had at work?
B:	No.
B:	I, you know,
B:	I, I really can't say anything that would really bother me.
A:	So many things I think over the years have been, um, accepted, I mean when you, uh, that are no longer done.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I mean I can remember when I was very young, much younger and I applied for a job
A:	they said, well, aren't you planning to have children.
A:	Well, I mean, that's none of their business.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And but of course, now by law they can't ask that.
B:	Yeah.
A:	So I mean there has been I think a lot to, done to protect privacy.
B:	Yeah,
B:	especially between women and,
A:	How do you feel,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
B:	they've gotten a lot with, uh,
B:	applications and stuff and aren't allowed to ask.
A:	That's right.
B:	No,
B:	because,
B:	I think it's for the better of like
B:	you mean like for working and stuff?
A:	Yeah,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	No,
B:	I don't because I think whenever, and something like that
B:	they're looking out for everyone.
B:	They're not,
A:	Yeah.
B:	you know, I think it's more safety than anything else.
A:	I feel that way too.
A:	I sometimes feel you know, sometimes individual rights including the right to privacy have to be sacrificed for a greater benefit.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Because I know,
A:	You know, for example airline pilots.
A:	I mean I do want my pilot to be sober
B:	Yeah.
B:	Because I know,
B:	I worked at a still mill in this summer.
B:	And I know, that, um, I've covered for people that came in drunk, you know, on the late shift or something,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah.
B:	and it, and it's dangerous.
B:	I don't even like having them around.
B:	I kind of do their work for them because they make it more hazardous than what it is without them, you know.
A:	That's right.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I know
A:	yeah,
A:	I feel, you know, I think some of the people that oppose, you know, mandatory drug testing for certain areas say, well, it's not,
B:	So, uh, let's see what was the topic,
B:	I forgot
B:	we are supposed to talk,
A:	Advice for people taking for parents, uh, help their kids through college.
B:	Yeah,
B:	do you have any children?
A:	No,
A:	I just graduated from college.
B:	Oh, did you?
A:	Yes.
B:	Where did you go?
A:	I went to Clarion.
B:	Clarion.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Really.
A:	It just seems so sad to have to only rely on, you know, college football.
A:	Is that all they're going to have to make money, you know.
B:	Yeah.
A:	But I didn't think that was the objective, to make money.
A:	But it seems like it is.
B:	Huh. It really is.
B:	I know there's a lot of pressure on schools to have a winning program. To get the best athletes so they can keep their seats full.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	You went to Indiana University?
B:	Uh, Purdue.
A:	Oh Purdue,
A:	okay.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Well, good.
B:	So.
A:	You're, you're a T I up in Sherman?
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Oh, very good.
B:	Are you from Dallas area?
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah,
A:	I'm in the facilities there, down here in Dallas.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I guess football is the big sport down here, isn't it.
A:	Uh, certainly high school football, and college football,
A:	but again high school football is just so much fun to watch,
A:	because, uh, you know, not everybody plays of course, but they're still,
A:	it's good
A:	and it's still,
A:	you know the kids,
A:	and there's absolutely no money involved whatsoever,
B:	Yeah.
A:	and you know they're going to class, you know.
B:	You heard of, Have you heard of Damon Bailey. The I U white guard that plays.
A:	It, it's, it's real amateur sports.
A:	Huh-uh.
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	Well, last year, when he was in high school, they drew a crowd of like forty-one thousand for the state finals, when he played.
A:	Is that right?
A:	I never heard ,
A:	that's, uh,
A:	I never been in a football game in high school that had that many.
B:	Yeah,
B:	so that's, I mean, that's pretty big.
B:	Like he's from Indiana,
B:	and he plays for Indiana now.
B:	And, Indiana him to be a lot bigger than pro basketball up there.
B:	The Pacers don't really draw that big of a crowd
B:	You know, the high school games, I mean, that seems to be the big attraction, and college.
A:	Well, my office mate here, Earl, he, he goes to all the Maverick games
A:	and he loves that.
A:	He, he would be,
A:	this is a great question for him, uh, to talk about
A:	Like he's got,
A:	I'm looking at his calendar,
A:	he's got all over the place,
A:	and he goes to a lot of the Maverick games and everything.
A:	But, I, I, I can't get interested at all,
A:	zero.
A:	I, I listen to him,
A:	and occasionally I'll watch them on channel eleven,
A:	but gee,
A:	I can't, uh,
A:	more than five minutes of a basketball game, just seems about,
A:	that's it,
A:	of, uh, pro anyway.
B:	Yeah,
B:	seems like you could set the score at a hundred and then give them five minutes to play,
A:	Yeah.
B:	then it'd be the same result.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Because they, they start,
B:	they shoot so much,
B:	and then the last, what, five minutes they decide who's going to be the winner, I guess.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I'm surprised a little bit when you're talking about basketball how some players work.
A:	Mavericks had, oh two players this year that they got rid of last year.
A:	I'll think of them in a minute.
A:	Perkins, Sam Perkins,
A:	can't think of the other one.
A:	They're both.
B:	Tarpley,
B:	is he one?
A:	Pardon me?
B:	Tarpley?
A:	Yeah,
A:	Tarpley,
A:	and they both left this past year,
A:	and both of them were on playoff teams, uh,
A:	so, they benefitted tremendously by leaving the Mavericks.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And Sam Perkins, here, he's one guy I did follow
A:	from,
A:	think he was in Virginia,
A:	I can't think of what school he went to,
A:	but from.
A:	I guess he's been here about five, six, seven years in the pros.
A:	And he was,
A:	he never quite achieved the, you know, the super stardom that he had in, in college,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but, uh, basketball, they have a nice,
A:	I don't know if you've down to the sports for Reunion Arena.
A:	It's,
A:	Well, what kind of garden do you have?
B:	Well, we've tried having,
B:	let me turn the T V off,
B:	we've tried having a vegetable garden,
B:	and I'm from Chicago,
B:	and the way that, uh, bugs and weeds grow down here is very different from Chicago.
B:	And we have tried several years in a row,
B:	and we've given up, between the fire ants, the pill bugs, the weeds, the drought, and a hundred and ten degree heat all Summer,
B:	and we just kind of, uh, decided to go with a few flowers and give up on the vegetable garden
A:	Oh.
B:	We had to put so much poison out on everything that we thought, Who'd want to eat that stuff.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	You know, so we have really been frustrated by our gardening attempts here,
B:	and, uh, if you really water a lot, you can do it,
B:	but, you know, when you have to pay for water, it really gets to be an annoyance to have to water constantly.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So, right now we're just,
A:	Do you have a lawn?
B:	Yeah,
B:	we, we just try to maintain the lawn and the shrubs right now, and the trees.
B:	We have a peach tree.
B:	That's the extent of our, um, contributing to our food supply.
B:	But that's nice to have
A:	Oh, yeah.
B:	yeah.
B:	So what do you do up there?
A:	Well, um, actually it,
A:	we've sort of had an ideal Spring.
B:	Um.
A:	And, um, the, the peonies have been out for now about three weeks
B:	Oh, wow.
A:	and the roses have been blooming for two weeks,
A:	and the grass is, uh, this lush green,
A:	and of course I've got lots of weeds in mine because, I don't use any poison either.
B:	Yeah.
A:	But, um, you know, I just keep looking at,
A:	and I say, Jeez, you know, this is the first year it's been so perfect.
B:	Really.
B:	Gosh.
A:	But, and my garden, you know,
A:	my tomatoes are two and a half feet tall
B:	Oh, boy
A:	the plants and,
B:	that sounds wonderful.
A:	you know, I'm I'm going, Gee, this can't, you know,
A:	we'll have a freeze.
B:	If you don't have a frost you'll be all right
B:	That's what I remember from living up north, is that you'd get everything set and then you'd have a frost
B:	and half the stuff would get frostbitten,
B:	and you'd have to.
A:	Well, that's it.
A:	Last year, I think it was, you know, my peonies were, were, budding in January,
A:	and, you know, there was no way that was going to make it,
A:	and sure enough, you know, we had really mild weather until I think it was May or something
B:	Wow.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and then, you know, everything just got hit hard
B:	Oh, boy,
B:	that's frustrating.
A:	So, but yeah,
A:	it, it's interesting,
A:	and I enjoy gardening.
A:	My son does the mowing of the grass.
B:	Oh, yeah,
B:	my husband does that, thank goodness, because I, that's not a pleasure for me
A:	I don't think that's a pleasure for anybody, the the mowing.
B:	I love gardens that are well tended,
B:	and I just,
B:	there's been a few different places I've lived where I've just
B:	I don't know whether it's little old ladies living there or what, but you could just tell that they had a love, uh, a love affair with their gardens, with beautiful wild flowers,
B:	and just,
B:	I love the host of colors that just keep coming all, you know, year long.
B:	And, uh, I, I was in England once,
B:	and that's one thing that impressed me so much is no matter what size yard somebody had, they had a beautiful garden in it.
B:	You know, it could be three feet by four feet or something.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So I do admire that, but I haven't really put, uh, too much energy into it.
B:	Course we have two little kids that are two and three years old
A:	Oh, they help you.
B:	So that has put a crimp in my every activity other than diapers and laundry, I'll tell you
A:	Oh dear.
A:	Oh but that's nice, you know,
A:	I mean the peach tree is, is a start
A:	and,
B:	yeah,
B:	that's really lovely.
B:	I would love to have different fruit trees.
B:	It's, it's been wonderful to have the peaches.
B:	They're just delicious.
B:	And, we, we we have, still have to spray some,
B:	but we don't have to just asphyxiate ourself with the poison, which is good,
B:	because I just,
B:	I can't see the point in doing that and eating anything out of it afterwards.
A:	Right.
A:	What about tomatoes,
A:	aren't they pretty hardy?
B:	Um, we've tried them,
B:	but again, it's just like the sun scorch.
A:	Oh.
B:	We've tried them in kind of halfway in the shade and halfway in the
B:	I mean it's just,
B:	you really, really have to be prepared to water constantly during the Summer.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	People that have been successful out here have done this drip irrigation and installed that,
A:	Oh.
B:	and um, that's really what makes the most sense,
B:	because you don't have to use so much water,
B:	and
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	it really does the job.
B:	But it's just amazing how hot and dry and for how long it gets out here.
B:	And if you're not really committed to it,
B:	I mean, me, I'm, you know, I'm real committed to it for about a week, and then I forget about it for a week,
B:	and then I go, Oh, yeah, I need to do something,
B:	and by then it's burned up, you know.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	It's just too distracting right now with these little ones in our lives,
B:	so maybe when I get older I'll find, uh, some joy in that
A:	Well, I would assume, too,
A:	I mean, you've got three or four months you're talking about of, of bad weather.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah,
B:	it just gets so hot so fast here.
B:	We don't have really a Spring or a Fall
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and it just, uh, immediately heats up.
B:	So, that's one thing I miss about living up north, as I remember, um, you know, the long Springs and long Falls and the cooler weather.
B:	It was really nice.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	We always had gardens when I was, uh, living in Chicago.
B:	In fact, my mother once tore up our entire back yard and redid it.
B:	I'll never forget.
B:	Got my stepfather to put in, uh, a waterfall and a little pond in one corner.
B:	I mean, that was like the most energy invested in anything in the whole time I ever knew him
B:	They remodeled the entire back yard.
B:	Then they sold the house and got divorced,
B:	so I don't know what that says about it all
A:	Oh, dear.
B:	Oh, but she used to love to do stuff like that.
A:	Sounds like it would have been pretty.
B:	Yeah,
B:	it really was.
B:	I enjoyed it there.
B:	But maybe when the boys get a little older, we'll do some more planting,
B:	because they like to see things grow.
B:	They've done a couple of little seed projects,
B:	and so I think it would be fun for them.
A:	Oh, sure,
A:	sure.
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah.
A:	Well, it sounds like you, you've got your hands full
B:	Oh, yes
B:	They're both running around now.
A:	And, you know, gardening isn't, isn't high on the list,
A:	but it's not off the list.
B:	Yeah,
B:	well, it's very therapeutic,
B:	I think, really to get out there and dig in the dirt, you know.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	They certainly enjoy that part of it
B:	It's just trying to keep anything.
B:	I planted bulbs last, uh, Fall on the side guard, and when I went out there in the Spring
B:	and the first day they came out the little one went and pulled all the flowers off,
B:	and the flower petals were scattered all over the walk
A:	Oh.
B:	He thought, what are these fun toys that mommy put out here with all these colors for me to play with?
B:	At least he didn't eat them,
B:	I mean, I guess I could be thankful for that.
A:	Right.
A:	Maybe next year they'll do better.
B:	Yeah,
B:	really.
B:	If they survive this year.
B:	Oh, well, good luck to you.
A:	Okay,
A:	well, thanks.
B:	Nice talking to you.
A:	It was nice talking to you too.
A:	Bye-bye.
A:	Okay
B:	Have you ever, uh, organized a family reunion?
A:	Uh, no
A:	I have never organized one.
A:	But we are, we have one, uh, we are going to have one on Memorial Day, I guess.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	They have had one the last two years. We go out to the, my dad's farm and, uh, and, you know, it is just a picnic and spend the night. Go fishing and stuff like that.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	How many people usually show up?
A:	Oh, about ten.
B:	Oh, it is not that big.
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	Because, uh, we have had sort of weekends like that too.
A:	It,
B:	But I never thought of it really as a reunion.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I sort of think of a reunion with my, uh, all the extended family
A:	Everybody,
A:	yeah.
B:	Yeah.
B:	That would be hard for us because most of the family is out in California.
B:	And some is in New York and North Carolina,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and it gets,
B:	it is kind of hard to get get everybody organized.
B:	Uh, is there someone,
B:	do you all just sort of chip in and help out with stuff when you are there?
B:	Or,
A:	Uh, yes.
A:	Yeah.
A:	My, my, uh, dad has a house out there anyway.
B:	And there is, there is, uh,
B:	he keeps a uh, food out there, year round.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So, so he does not live there though?
A:	Uh, no.
A:	It is, it is, it is like a country, country home.
B:	Vacation home.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah.
B:	It sounds nice. Uh,
B:	are there kids that are there too, or mostly adults?
A:	Yeah.
A:	The grandchildren.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Just a few.
A:	It just depends,
A:	uh, uh, all my grandparents are dead so, uh, there is, there are not, you know, none of them are there.
A:	And, and, uh, then an uncle is dead.
A:	So the, the big family is a lot smaller that it used to be.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Are you all located in Texas?
A:	Uh, yeah.
A:	We are in, we are all, uh,
A:	like they live up in Sherman.
A:	It is near Lake Texoma.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And,
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah.
A:	uh, all of his children live in the Dallas area too.
A:	So,
B:	Yeah.
B:	That to me is,
B:	yeah,
B:	Dallas I know of,
B:	Houston I know of,
B:	and that is about it In Texas.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	The rest of it is sort of a big void to me.
A:	Yeah.
B:	But, uh, you know, we have, uh, well,
B:	we all got together,
B:	it was about two years ago for,
B:	I was,
B:	I had graduated from college.
B:	And, uh, I was going to live in France for a year.
B:	And so my parents invited,
B:	it was not just family,
B:	it was friends too.
B:	But, uh, we all got together for just a party.
B:	And that was kind of fun.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Nice to have everybody together at once and things like that.
A:	French reunion?
B:	Well, not quite French,
A:	Yeah.
B:	but, uh, it was sort of a reunion before leaving.
B:	It was fun.
B:	It was on, uh, New Year's Day.
B:	So it was almost a celebration of the new year too at the same time.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah.
B:	It was kind of fun.
B:	But, uh, but who was it?
B:	A friend of mine had a big family reunion a couple of years ago
B:	and, you know, everybody flew in from all over the place for the weekend.
B:	And it really sounded like it was fun.
B:	But, I am not quite sure what I would do.
B:	I think it would be fun to like rent a big mansion or house someplace, and have everybody meet someplace where they do not really know. And have different areas to explore and things like that.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
B:	So that would be kind of fun.
B:	Yep.
B:	Where nobody lives
A:	Right.
B:	But at least that way it is at nobody's house, so nobody one, no one person is responsible for everything.
A:	Yeah.
A:	And they do not have to clean up afterwards.
B:	Yep.
A:	Yeah.
B:	That is for sure.
B:	The cleaning up can be a mess.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But uh, do you have horses or anything at your dad's farm?
A:	I am, I am sorry?
B:	Does, does your dad have horses there?
A:	Uh, no,
A:	he does not really have any, any, uh, uh, domestic livestock anyway.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	But, he leased, uh, to his neighbor for the cattle to feed on.
B:	I see,
B:	so it's,
B:	so he really does use it as a vacation home.
B:	It is not like a farm that he has somebody else run for him or something like that.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Pretty much.
A:	He has a garden and, uh, a lot of fruit trees and blueberry bushes and things.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Well, that sounds nice.
B:	Do people actually pick the fruit and things?
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	And then there is wild blackberries there too.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	So,
B:	Yeah.
B:	I, used to, we used to go pick wild blackberries at my friend's property,
A:	he gets,
B:	but we never got enough.
B:	I used to make jam,
B:	but I never had enough to really make, you know, more than a jar or something.
A:	Huh.
B:	So it was not so worth it.
A:	Yeah.
A:	It is kind of, they're kind of off and on it seems like.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Depends on the rain.
B:	That sounds,
B:	is,
B:	does he have a lot of land to go walking around and things there?
A:	Uh,
A:	it is, uh, it is, uh, eighty acres.
B:	Well, that is pretty big
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I do not know how they do scale down there.
B:	You know, here it would be a huge amount of land.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Because they,
B:	is
B:	this house here that has a lot of space is three or four acres. As opposed to tens of acres.
A:	Yeah.
A:	And, uh,
A:	and most of it, you know,
A:	you just spend time on maybe ten acres of it.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, because that is where the ponds are and where everybody fishes.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	We kind of have a, an informal contest.
A:	My uncle, uh, put some bass in, uh, his pond a few years ago.
A:	But the bass,
A:	we have not been able to catch any of the adult bass yet.
A:	So,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	they are in there, but they are real spooky.
B:	Yeah.
B:	I think my dad put some.
B:	We have a little pond at our, at his vacation home too.
B:	And,
B:	I mean really little.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And they were having problems with too many goldfish because we had put some goldfish in,
B:	and there were too many little goldfish,
B:	and so the big ones never got bigger.
A:	Oh, yeah.
B:	And, uh, somebody suggested to get a bass.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And so they went fishing and caught a bass near some place and put it in there and never saw it again
A:	Never saw the bass?
B:	No.
A:	Oh.
B:	So we do not know whether it is living
B:	or,
A:	Oh, it is probably in there just burping goldfish.
B:	Yep.
A:	Yeah.
B:	We still have lots of little goldfish.
B:	They propagate pretty well, those little fish.
A:	Yeah,
B:	Yeah,
A:	they really do.
B:	because we started,
B:	we have got hundreds in there now,
B:	and we started with, I think, ten or twenty little feeder fish that I picked up for a dollar, you know, no matter how many it was for a dollar.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, and some of them are probably eight inches long.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But he wants your really big ones, you know, the ones that get to be like a foot and a half long.
A:	Oh,
B:	And,
A:	yeah.
B:	It,
A:	They
A:	there is a, uh,
A:	you might put some, like some yellow catfish in there.
A:	I do not know if they would live very well up in New York,
A:	but they get huge.
A:	And, uh, they routinely use them for bait for, uh, goldfish for bait for yellow catfish.
B:	Oh, okay.
B:	Well, we would want to put some small ones in so they do not eat the big guys, the goldfish too
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But, yeah.
B:	We could see.
B:	I do not know if yellow catfish live up this way.
B:	But catfish do, I think.
A:	Yeah.
A:	They live in the Mississippi River all the way through Minnesota and up into Canada.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	So, that,
B:	you mean,
B:	well, we could try it.
B:	That is a good idea.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Because he was trying to catch them, you know, using little, uh,
B:	I forget,
B:	there's little, uh, nets you can use to catch fish to use as feeder fish and things like that. Minnow nets or something.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	My father was taking those and trying to catch the goldfish.
B:	And it was really funny,
B:	because, uh, one time he left the net in the pond,
B:	and he like would put some tuna fish or things in the middle of it to attract the fish.
B:	And, uh, he left it in the middle of the pond
B:	And that night he came out, and the trap was gone.
B:	And it was a raccoon that had taken it.
B:	So it was really funny.
B:	And you could see that, you know,
B:	you could see where the trap, the trap was dragged and things like that.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And so,
A:	Yeah.
A:	That is what happens
B:	But do you guys have fishing competitions while you are there?
A:	Yeah
A:	And, uh, we feed the catfish.
A:	They feed the catfish like, uh, every couple of weeks.
A:	And, uh, and sometimes that is the best time to catch them.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Because they will just, they will just come after anything then.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And you could catch a couple anyway during that time.
B:	What do you feed them?
A:	Uh, mixed Purina, uh,
A:	it is, uh, cat food, uh, catfish food.
B:	Really?
A:	Yeah.
B:	And it is especially made for catfish.
A:	But,
A:	Yeah.
A:	Well, I do not know how much different it is from dog food but, you know, it is, uh, it looks like Purina High Pro.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
B:	That is funny.
A:	But they come up to the top.
A:	And it is the best time to take pictures,
A:	because they come up to the top, and you can see their whiskers come through the water.
A:	And they're,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	the the big catfish just kind of vacuum the top of the water.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	I have never seen catfish, you know, except in filleted on a plate, I think maybe.
B:	I think I have seen once or twice in like the museum.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But I have never seen them, just alive someplace.
B:	That would be fun to see.
A:	Well, they are really funny fish.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	When you catch them, they make a kind of a, a burping, growling sound at you.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	How big do they get?
A:	Oh, well, the channel catfish get up to, uh,
A:	I think the world record is fifty some pounds.
A:	Uh,
B:	Do you know?
A:	that, that is only about three and a half feet long.
B:	That is pretty big though.
A:	Yeah,
B:	Yeah.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh, from the time,
A:	they, they stay slender until they get to be, uh, eighteen inches long, and then they start to widen out.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh, my daughter, we were up there one time and my daughter was fishing
A:	And I think that was when she was three.
A:	And she caught a catfish by accident.
A:	She was fishing for sunfish.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And she said, "Here," and she handed me her rod and reel
A:	And, and, uh, you know, it was just pulling drag out.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And it swimmed wherever it wanted to.
B:	Yeah.
B:	That sounds amazing.
B:	I will have to see them sometime.
B:	But, all righty.
A:	Okay.
A:	It was nice talking to you.
B:	Nice talking to you too.
A:	Okay.
A:	Bye-bye.
B:	Enjoy your, uh, weekend.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Have a nice Memorial weekend.
B:	Okay.
B:	You too.
B:	Bye-bye.
A:	Bye.
A:	Okay,
A:	now you can tell me what you do.
B:	Uh, well, I work with computers, just like your son
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and I actually do research in speech recognition
A:	Oh, great.
B:	part of the reason I'm participating in the project is to see how the stuff goes.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But, um, I was working
B:	well, actually I haven't worked for any large companies per se uh, recently
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but hopefully the job that I will have will have lots of benefits namely lots of vacations not real good salary but lots of vacations.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah
A:	Well, the one John works for seems to have a you know, good benefits,
A:	and the pay is decent.
B:	Yeah
B:	the, uh,
B:	well actually, where I was working the company
B:	one of the companies I was working for actually had very good health care benefits which these days I think are really important
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	because health care is so ridiculously expensive.
B:	Because we're, we're paying our own insurance right now.
A:	uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	But and I'm,
B:	we actually had a little baby so I'm taking a little bit of a time off from work.
A:	Oh,
A:	Great,
A:	I had, I had a granddaughter
B:	Oh, congratulations.
B:	And so one thing that I'm very concerned with now is first of all health benefits
B:	because it's more important with a family
A:	Right.
B:	and you know, our doctor's routine doctor's visits covered,
B:	my health insurance only covers, um, the emergency care.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Do you have major medical benefits?
B:	Right, yeah,
B:	but I don't,
A:	That, that helps some,
A:	if,
A:	it depends on what your deductible is how high it is.
B:	Right.
B:	Well, my,
B:	our deductible's five hundred
B:	but it's for each event.
A:	Each person.
A:	Yeah,
A:	that's pretty that's pretty high,
B:	Right
B:	but, you know, so it covers the emergency things but it doesn't cover if you get sick
A:	Right.
B:	it doesn't cover doctor's visits, things like that.
A:	That's, that's right.
A:	And five hundred dollars is a lot to come up with for each person to be able to start using your major medical, too.
B:	Oh, yeah,
B:	it certainly is.
B:	Uh.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I know where my daughter works,
A:	now she, she,
A:	course we live in a, a rural sort of setting
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and where she works she has no benefits at all.
B:	Wow.
A:	And her wage is not, not very good
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	But it's, it's the type of area we live in.
A:	Of course, living expenses aren't as bad either, though, which makes a difference.
B:	And probably the medical care is less expensive, too.
A:	Well, she has to pay for it herself
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	you know, they have to pay for their own insurance.
A:	But, uh
B:	So I think that in general the doctor's fees are probably lower there,
B:	and so the insurance would cost lower,
A:	Uh, well, from what I've seen,
A:	from my aunt and uncle really from Florida up to here,
A:	they're not that much different.
B:	Well, I know that friends of mine had a baby up in Boston
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and their costs were about fifty percent of what it cost to have it in Manhattan.
A:	Is that right?
B:	And they were at one of the better hospitals, you know
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, you know, good doctors in Boston.
A:	Wow
A:	that's a big difference.
B:	And I was at one of the big hospitals in New York.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But that's a huge difference just between
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	you know, and it's two big cities that I think of as somewhat comparable.
A:	Oh, yeah,
A:	should be.
B:	So I was pretty shocked at that.
B:	But the other thing that I'm really concerned about,
B:	and most companies don't have,
B:	some are starting to have, is day care
B:	because it would be really nice to be able to have, you know, someone that could watch my daughter at work.
B:	And I'd go to work,
B:	and if she were sick I could go down and see her, if she needs to be fed, whatever.
A:	And it would be much more convenient.
A:	Yeah
B:	And I,
A:	it would be more convenient, too.
B:	It would be more convenient, more productive I think,
A:	Oh, yeah.
A:	My other daughter works and has,
A:	they have to take their two children to day care, you know.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, it, it's,
A:	I don't know how they do it,
A:	I really don't. You know,
A:	getting them there and then, and going to work, and then picking them up and, all the preparations.
B:	And, and your hours are, much more constrained and things like that.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	And, that, to me, well, that, you know,
B:	those three things, the health care, vacation, and day care are probably the most important benefits.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I suppose I should be concerned with life insurance and, uh, retirement plans
B:	but,
A:	Oh, I don't know,
A:	I think those benefits you mentioned, sometimes they're even more important than the wage itself.
B:	Yeah.
A:	If you can get those benefits even, uh,
A:	they, they come out to much, a much better benefit than, than an increase in your wage a lot of times.
B:	Right
B:	because you're, you know,
B:	certainly something like day care at the work place would make life so much simpler that it's worth paying, you know, having a lower salary.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	I would certainly accept a lower salary for that. You know, everything else being equal
A:	Oh, yeah.
A:	Oh, yeah,
A:	it would make it a lot better.
B:	because your life would be so much easier.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And there's a question of quality of life also.
A:	Uh, well, and if it was there, you would really have a little more, uh, knowledge on what's going on probably, you know, with your child.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Right,
B:	and, you, you, you don't feel like you're a half hour away if she something happened. And, you're less preoccupied with it, I think.
A:	Right.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Right,
A:	yeah.
B:	But unfortunately, there aren't,
B:	I think I B M has started having that in certain locations.
A:	I don't know,
A:	my daughter, one daughter works for M C I,
A:	and they don't, they, where she works they don't have anything like that.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Is that locally?
A:	Uh, Pittsburgh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
B:	Yeah
B:	because Pittsburgh's a big enough city, too.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But you know, I wouldn't be surprised if thing's like that didn't happen more in smaller communities before they happen in bigger ones. Just because people might be more flexible in smaller locations and things like that.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah,
B:	Because many times small companies offer better benefits in terms of quality of life than larger companies.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Like, uh, one company had proposed to me that I could come back to work after having the baby, um, any where between ten and forty hours a week. And, um, call my own days, call my own hours,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Oh, so they were very flexible
B:	Yeah,
A:	and that, that would be great,
A:	yeah.
B:	and which
B:	many times at a large company it's almost impossible to do things like that.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
A:	They say you're going to do it this way, and that's the way it's going to be.
B:	Right.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And if you get two weeks off, you get two weeks off and you're not allowed two weeks and one day.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah,
A:	yeah.
B:	So it all depends on what your position is there, too.
A:	True,
A:	well, that's true in any, any company, I think.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I've, I've never, well I can't say I've never,
A:	I've maybe worked five years out of our married life out of the you know, out of the home
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but, uh, the rest of the time I've been an Avon lady and a lady.
B:	Was that when you were, um, well,
B:	those have its pluses and minuses, too.
B:	I've been a consultant recently and so I don't have any benefits at all
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and,
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	and you have to take care of any benefits you want yourself,
A:	yeah.
B:	Right,
B:	and the same thing
B:	my husband is unfortunately being paid as a consultant
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and we tried to argue that he should get more salary for that than what he is
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, um, they, they, they,
A:	Usually consultants make very good income.
B:	Right,
B:	and they, they refuse to give him more salary.
A:	Is that right?
B:	Because they say they can't pay more than this and that, and they're not allowed to pay him more than what his previous salary was and things like that
A:	Oh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, you know, times are rough now,
B:	so it's, new,
B:	it's harder to get the, uh, you know, increases and things
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but, um,
A:	A consultant really is, should be more knowledgeable than everybody else, you know
B:	Yeah,
B:	well he's,
A:	so it stands to reason they should really have more benefits.
B:	Right,
B:	well, he's been doing a long term,
B:	he's being called a consultant,
B:	and he's really sort of a temporary employee at a place.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	And, they, they pay him as a consultant but he doesn't get any health benefits,
B:	he doesn't get, well
A:	Um.
B:	we don't care about retirement benefits.
B:	He doesn't get, um, vacation benefits
B:	and he does a lot of things that get factored into somebody else's salary.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So really his salary should be, you know, twenty percent or thirty percent higher just based on that, not including the fact that you know, it's a less, long term commitment for the company and all that sort of stuff.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah,
A:	and they'll do it,
A:	Do you or your husband work for T I,
A:	or
B:	I'm a contract person at T I in fact involved with, uh, Data Switchboard
A:	Oh, are you,
A:	Oh, I see.
A:	Well, that's neat.
B:	and, uh, do you work for T I?
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	So, I've worked for them for several years, like twelve now, I guess.
B:	Oh, you sound very young like just out of college
A:	Right,
A:	I try to,
A:	I try to think of myself as young,
A:	but, uh, well, have you seen any movies recently?
B:	Uh, I'm trying to think,
B:	we saw, uh, DANCES WITH WOLVES
A:	Oh, did you?
B:	and, uh, have you seen that one?
A:	No,
A:	I haven't,
A:	I have, have a hard time with movies that are real long.
B:	That was excellent.
A:	I don't know.
B:	Well, so oddly enough, I do too,
B:	I get tired of sitting there, and so does my husband,
A:	Yeah.
B:	but we both just thoroughly, you know enjoyed it, just really liked it
A:	Yeah.
A:	Well, I've heard a lot of good things about it.
B:	and, uh, I'm trying to think,
B:	we went to see a, uh, a real funny one,
B:	I can't think now what the name of it was
B:	I've gone blank.
A:	We saw THE NAKED GUN, TWO AND A HALF
B:	Oh, we have not seen that,
B:	we want to see that one.
A:	and that was, that was pretty funny,
A:	and then we saw,
A:	what was the spoof on TOP GUN,
A:	it's
B:	Oh, I haven't seen that one.
A:	oh, I can't think of what that was called.
A:	We saw that too,
A:	I was pretty disappointed in that one.
B:	Were you.
A:	Yeah,
A:	but, uh, so, you know, through the summer,
A:	we have small children, so we don't get to see too many, but we've seen I guess two or three movies this past summer.
B:	My husband doesn't enjoy the shows as much going to them,
B:	he likes to rent them
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and so we watch a lot of them, you know, at home as they come out,
A:	Right.
B:	and, uh,
A:	Have you seen GHOSTS yet?
B:	Yes,
B:	yes.
A:	I really, I enjoyed that movie,
B:	Did you?
B:	Now I, I was real disappointed
A:	Really.
B:	I'm a real big Patrick Swayze fan
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, uh, I was really disappointed in it,
B:	it
B:	one,
B:	I don't think it was as funny as what I was anticipating,
B:	and I guess I was expecting it to be kind of funny and, uh, and it wasn't you know, at all,
A:	Oh, yeah,
A:	well,
A:	Yeah.
B:	it was, it was more of a love story
A:	Yeah,
B:	and, uh, so I was really disappointed in that because I like him real well.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	We just got through watching one with, uh, uh, is it Claude Van Damme yeah, and, uh, enjoyed it,
A:	Uh, Van Damme,
A:	yeah,
A:	I think,
B:	I can't think what the name of
B:	it was a, uh, of course, one of the typical you know, kicking, fighting lots of blood and guts and all that type movie,
A:	Right.
A:	Right.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, and we enjoyed that,
B:	and, uh, the, uh, uh, the one with Jody Foster, did you see it?
A:	Oh, SILENCE OF THE LAMBS?
B:	Yes.
A:	Yes,
A:	I did.
B:	Wasn't that excellent?
A:	Yeah,
A:	I really enjoyed that a lot.
B:	Yeah,
B:	that was one that, that stayed with me you know, for a month,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I just,
B:	I kept thinking about it, you know,
A:	Yeah,
A:	well, it's amazing,
A:	but really, I mean, when you stop and think about it, Anthony Perkins didn't have that big a role in the movie
B:	No.
A:	and yet it was his character that was so intriguing,
B:	Oh, it was excellent,
B:	and, and, of course, he's such a, uh, very good actor anyway
A:	Yeah.
B:	and, I think he made the movie,
A:	Yeah,
A:	I do too,
A:	I really did
B:	Yeah,
A:	you know, Jody Foster was good, too, but I think, I think Anthony Perkins was the one that, that really made the movie,
A:	I agree with you.
B:	Is it Anthony Perkins or Anthony Hopkins?
A:	Oh, Hopkins,
A:	I'm sorry
B:	Hopkins,
B:	uh-huh.
A:	Hopkins,
A:	yeah.
A:	I always get those mixed up.
B:	I know
B:	I know.
B:	It, uh, well,
B:	I'm not a real big Jody Foster fan,
B:	but I thought she was good in that.
A:	Well, I
A:	well, I haven't been,
A:	I'm, I saw her in THE KEYS,
A:	and I thought that was a pretty good movie,
A:	but I thought she,
B:	Now, I didn't see that one.
A:	That was, that was pretty interesting movie,
A:	and, uh, but, you know, I, I did,
A:	I really liked the SILENCE OF THE LAMBS,
A:	that was really intriguing,
A:	and it, it didn't scare me all that much, you know,
A:	and I, I don't like to go to movies to be scared,
A:	that's not why I go
B:	No,
B:	no
A:	so,
B:	I like a good suspenseful story,
A:	Right,
A:	and that one was.
B:	and that one very definitely kept you on the edge of the seats,
B:	in fact, I want to, uh, rent it when it comes out for my husband to see,
B:	because, he didn't
A:	Oh, he didn't see it?
B:	he won't go see that,
B:	no,
A:	Oh.
B:	I went with, uh, our daughter and, uh, so, you know, saw it with her, and, uh, enjoyed it.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	My all time favorite is WEEKEND AT BERNIE'S.
A:	Oh, really?
B:	Did you see it?
A:	Yeah,
A:	I've seen it.
B:	Oh, I've seen it, you know,
B:	we saw it at the movies,
B:	and then we've rented it several times
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, we just love it,
B:	in fact we have a ten year old grandson that,
B:	he and my husband and I, we just sit there and cackle you know, just get hysterical.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I've seen that.
A:	It's pretty, it's pretty cute.
A:	I guess, you know, as far as comedies go, probably my favorite is YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN.
B:	Uh, yes,
B:	yes,
A:	I love that movie,
B:	My husband liked that
A:	Yeah,
A:	so,
B:	uh, he's a big Gene Wilder fan,
A:	Yeah,
A:	well, Gene Wilder doesn't do that much for me,
A:	but I'm a big, uh, Mel Brooks fan
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	uh-huh.
A:	all his movies, I really, really .
B:	He has a new one out.
A:	He does?
B:	Yeah,
B:	uh-huh.
B:	Uh, I have seen it advertised.
B:	I don't know what the name of it is.
A:	Oh, is that the one with, that's he's starring in?
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	uh-huh.
A:	Oh, yeah,
A:	that came out, like early in the summer or something like that.
B:	Yes,
B:	yes.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I haven't seen that one either.
B:	Yeah,
B:	my husband wants to see that one,
B:	and, uh, did you see that one that he made years and years ago about the, uh, the sheriff
A:	Oh, BLAZING SADDLES.
B:	BLAZING SADDLES.
A:	Yeah,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	Oh, that's my husband's all time favorite, I think.
A:	Oh, uh-huh.
A:	I like, I like that one too, but I thought YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN was better.
B:	Did you?
A:	Yeah,
A:	that, that was just, you know, had all kinds of things throughout the whole movie,
A:	I just really enjoyed it,
A:	and, uh, um, I'm trying to think,
A:	because we saw another one that we thought was really good, early this summer, that was a suspenseful movie.
A:	I'm trying to remember what it was,
A:	because it, you know, it's,
A:	Okay.
B:	All right.
A:	Capital punishment.
B:	Okay,
B:	what's your views on it?
A:	Um, for myself, I'm personally against it,
A:	but we seem to have a duality of, in this country where most states in theory have it, but, but, but do not use it.
B:	Correct.
B:	Okay,
B:	well, I'm for it.
B:	I think there are certain crimes that definitely, uh, call for it.
B:	I don't see any sense in someone living that does things like that.
B:	I, I don't feel like they're a benefit to society in any way,
B:	and of course Texas has it, but they very seldom, you know, put it into effect.
B:	So instead all of our prisons are full of people on, you know a lot of people on death row.
A:	Okay, well,
A:	Uh, Texas uses it as, about as much as any other state.
B:	Well, uh, yeah
A:	Texas is a big state,
B:	which is not very often.
B:	Right.
A:	Um, here in Maryland to the capital punishment law,
A:	people are sometimes sentenced to capital punishment, but no one, no one has, actually has the sentence carried out.
A:	Uh, I'd certainly,
B:	What do they do, just keep them on death row for the rest of their life.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	I think so.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I, uh,
A:	or affair number
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	uh, in fact, I think that, it, it affected the sentence though capital punishment is available,
A:	the sentence of life without possibility of parole, uh, has become a common one, and is being, being used much more.
B:	Do you have the overcrowding in your prisons that we are facing down here?
A:	Uh, I don't know the exact numbers,
A:	but, but yes,
A:	prisons are overcrowded.
B:	I know that we have, you know,
B:	really in fact they're, they're releasing people, uh, that are in there for, you know, not major crimes, but, uh robberies and assault and things like that,
B:	and, because they don't have room, which then they're coming back on the streets and of course, doing it again,
B:	and um, you know, so we're having problems in, in that way,
B:	and I know that there are some cases that, uh, you know, capital punishment does not fit the crime,
B:	and there are extenuating circumstances on certain types, um, but I have to say that I'm honestly for it
A:	Um.
B:	uh, almost that eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.
A:	Okay,
A:	you're, you're certainly in the majority uh, at least in this country.
B:	Yes.
A:	Uh, we are, I guess, the only one of the major Western nations currently with capital punishment.
B:	I know they use it very, um,
B:	they do not have it in Europe, as I understand.
A:	No,
A:	at least not in Western Europe.
A:	Probably not in Eastern Europe these days either.
A:	Um, there are many reasons for it,
A:	but they, they certainly have lower crime rates and lower murder rates.
B:	Yes,
B:	you wonder what their, you know, how they manage to do that.
A:	Well, in part it's, uh, it's the nature of societies, perhaps more homogenous society, in many cases, uh,
A:	arguably, if
A:	arguably is because of, of, uh, of, uh, welfare state benefits.
A:	Though I tend to be, we tend to be skeptical.
B:	Well, England has, uh, don't they have a large, fairly large welfare?
A:	Yes,
A:	oh there's no question that, that they, that, uh, you know, they have, you know, all kinds of cradle to grave, uh, programs, welfare programs providing for everyone some way.
A:	I, I, I,
A:	however the question is is that making the difference.
B:	Oh, I, I don't know.
B:	But we have a lot of welfare programs
B:	and
A:	Oh.
B:	if both do and they tend to have less crime, you wonder if that has anything to do with it then,
B:	you know, or is it,
B:	in our society, people are brought up over here thinking that, you know, everybody owes them something.
A:	Um, I think, I think that idea is even, even more common in Western Europe.
B:	Oh, do you?
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Well, that's interesting.
B:	I would not have, I would not have said that.
B:	I would have said that it was more prevalent here in the United States.
B:	That's an interesting theory.
B:	I'm not that familiar, you know,
B:	I've only been over there a couple of times
B:	and I'm not that familiar with, that,
A:	Me, too.
B:	all I know is that, for instance we were in Germany in, uh,
A:	Okay.
B:	Why don't you go ahead and start.
A:	Okay,
A:	well, we subscribe to PEOPLE magazine and to TIME,
A:	and, of course I like the PEOPLE magazine because it's gossipy and it's fast reading,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and, uh, the TIME of course, is, uh, you know, more newsworthy
A:	and, uh, it has more world affair type things, of course.
A:	And then I will purchase a GOOD HOUSEKEEPING occasionally, especially around the holiday time because of recipes and ideas and and things like that
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and, uh, do you subscribe to any magazines?
B:	Yeah,
B:	I, well, I have, in a for a while I haven't gotten any because I just find that I'm not reading what I'm getting because, uh, I have so much going on in my life
B:	that seems to be the last thing I pick up,
B:	so I found that I was wasting my money. As much as I enjoy them, uh, when I do subscribe
B:	I, I've gotten in the past the PARENTS magazine and, uh, the HOUSEKEEPING magazine
A:	Uh-huh
B:	uh.
A:	you probably have smaller children younger children.
B:	Yes,
B:	yeah,
A:	My children, our children are grown
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah,
A:	and, uh, I'm letting their mother read on the grandchildren
B:	Right,
B:	well, I found that after a couple of years of having a PARENTS magazine it was getting repetitious,
B:	so I kind of canceled it anyway for that reason.
B:	Uh, the HOUSEKEEPING magazines I do like because they, like you say, they have nice, uh, recipes in them and ideas, but, uh, lately they've just been piling up on me,
B:	so I figured it wasn't, uh, something I needed at this point in time.
A:	Well, do you think that people subscribe to magazines as much as they used to?
B:	I don't know,
B:	I, I, well,
B:	my husband would love to have more.
B:	Now he's the type who will get the, uh, INC. magazine and MONEY magazine and all the financial type magazines,
A:	Yes,
A:	now my husband does that,
A:	and
B:	Yeah,
A:	you know, and of course, uh, naturally WALL STREET JOURNAL, you know and, or SPORTS ILLUSTRATED,
B:	Uh-huh,
A:	but I don't know,
A:	I know a few people leafing through them at the store
A:	but you just don't hear people talk about them,
A:	and I know years ago, when, uh, my children were young and stuff, I just loved LADIES HOME JOURNAL, McCALL'S, GOOD HOUSEKEEPING,
A:	and I took them all
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and, uh, then, oh, I don't know what
A:	in the seventies, maybe, late seventies they changed their format
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and I haven't,
A:	I don't think there's been a magazine as they used to be
B:	Well
A:	even GOOD HOUSEKEEPING I don't,
B:	yeah,
B:	and some of those have had what, what I consider or what
B:	They seem just to be so chocked full of, of ads.
A:	Oh, they are.
A:	My sister, uh, takes, uh, TOWN AND COUNTRY and VOGUE
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and she sends them to me,
A:	and there's really nothing in them but advertisements for very expensive clothes, very expensive jewelry things that the average middle class citizen is not going to be purchasing
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah,
B:	Yes.
B:	Right
A:	you know, and if I want to drool or if I want to see how the other half is living you know, then I can, I look through them
B:	Yes.
B:	Yeah.
A:	and I do,
A:	I just,
A:	what I do is I flip through them and, and pitch them then, you know,
A:	they're not something I, you know, take any length of time over.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	uh-huh.
A:	I have discovered that, you know, with my available time, I would rather actually read a book than a magazine.
B:	Yes
B:	I enjoy books a lot more
A:	Yes
B:	that's true.
A:	and, uh.
B:	Well
A:	So, but.
B:	now I have certainly stopped subscribing as much as I used to,
B:	other than my children have gotten.
B:	You know, they get tons of magazines it seems
A:	Yes
B:	they're always getting something in the mail
B:	and, and, uh, so between reading to them and, uh, reading the newspaper,
B:	and then I have a book that I'm occasionally reading when I get a chance,
B:	but I just don't get a chance for those, uh, newsy magazines, the ones that are full of ads,
B:	unless you just want to skim through while you're,
B:	I, I read them when I'm at a doctor's office or, you know, waiting on something like that.
A:	Yes,
A:	yes,
A:	I will read them in a doctor's office, too.
B:	Yeah,
A:	As I said, I, I subscribe to, uh, to PEOPLE and to TIME,
A:	and, uh, and I will go through the TIME, but, usually not cover to cover, you know,
A:	I'll glance through it.
A:	I like reading, uh, you know, the PASSAGE OF PEOPLE or something you know,
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	uh-huh.
A:	and, uh, but I do like the PEOPLE magazine.
A:	It, it reminds me of the old time movie magazines when I was young
B:	Oh, uh-huh.
A:	and, uh, that's one, and you know, I really like that,
A:	I enjoy that.
A:	It's quick reading you know,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	it doesn't require a lot of thinking,
A:	and sometimes after I've worked all day and have things to do at night, I just, I want fluff
B:	Yeah.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	uh-huh.
A:	I don't want a lot of thinking
B:	That's true,
B:	that kind of is a good way to do it.
A:	It, uh, you know, it's, it's much more relaxing.
A:	Sometimes when I read TIME magazine, after I've read an article I'm real depressed over the situation of the world
A:	so. Well, it seems like we both kind of agree on the subject of magazines
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah.
A:	and, uh
B:	Okay.
A:	so, uh, I think that probably I will end the call.
A:	I've enjoyed,
A:	Okay.
A:	Um, I very seldom read a newspaper.
A:	I get most of my news information from T V.
A:	Mainly, um, if I'm really wanting an in-depth thing I'll watch C N N.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And I find it one of the best.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, otherwise it's just one of the regular, uh, channels eight or five.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, where do you get yours?
B:	Uh, mostly from T V too.
B:	I usually start watching the news at five and watch it at five thirty and six sometimes and, and then again at ten maybe just the headlines.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Um, we do take the DALLAS MORNING NEWS
B:	and, uh, once in a while I'll sit down and read, read it, you know,
B:	but not very often do I read the whole thing.
B:	Quite often just scan through the headlines
B:	and,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Well, I take the DALLAS MORNING NEWS
A:	and, and my husband, uh, he reads it cover to cover.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, if he thinks there's something that I need to know about he'll say, you know, here you need to read this
A:	and, uh I don't know
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	it,
A:	I kind of quit reading it, oh, I don't know several years ago when the kids were teenagers.
A:	It just seems like I was so busy all the time,
A:	and if I wanted to read, I wanted to read something light and relaxing and and, uh, things like that
B:	Yeah.
A:	and so I
A:	and it got so depressing
B:	Yeah
A:	Seems like it wasn't anything but bad news
B:	Yeah.
B:	If there's something, you know, that I want to know more about or
B:	might be the Killeen murders.
B:	I've been kind of intrigued.
B:	I guess it's kind of the sadist in everyone
B:	You just,
A:	Yes,
A:	yes.
A:	I, I will pick up if there's something really gruesome in there
A:	I'll go through and read it.
A:	Uh, but I find that I do better with, oh, remembering it and everything if I watch, uh, the T V you know,
B:	Yeah.
A:	and, and they kind of capsize it and everything
B:	Yeah.
A:	and watch,
A:	and I think sometimes it's, you know maybe a little biased, you know
B:	Right.
B:	Oh, yeah.
A:	and sometimes. You don't, you get the sensationalism as opposed to just pure facts.
B:	Yeah.
B:	That's true.
A:	You know.
B:	I wanted a little more detail like, you know,
B:	they would tell more about the people that were killed, where they were from and how old they were.
B:	And I guess you just, you know, you you just want to know
B:	and with interest, you know I found some people that were members of our church which was different.
B:	And that made you even feel a little more kin to, to what was going on.
B:	Well, you know, of the same, same type of church that we belong to.
A:	Oh, the same type of church.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	Yeah,
B:	so that made it a little more and that they were from Utah also
B:	so.
A:	Oh, uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	So that was interesting,
B:	but I enjoy the news.
B:	I, I think our seven year old even once in a while will sit down and watch it with us,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	so.
A:	I used to, uh,
A:	or I didn't used to
A:	but, uh
B:	No.
A:	when my grandchildren had, uh, have stayed over before and even maybe when our kids were younger one of the channels used to give brief inserts of news at a child's level.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And I thought that was very interesting,
A:	and I thought that was very important for kids.
A:	Like they brought down something that had happened like if there was something going on, uh, in the war, they would bring it down to a child's level in words you know, that they could understand what was going on.
B:	Huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, I noticed that my grandchildren seemed to kind of enjoy that.
A:	The oldest one he's nine
B:	Right.
A:	and, uh, he would particularly enjoy this
A:	been a couple of years ago.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And, uh, I thought, I think that's really interesting.
A:	Actually I even understood it better
B:	Yeah,
B:	that's nice sometimes when they they pull it down a little bit like that.
A:	Yeah
A:	Yeah,
A:	you know. And, uh, but as I said, uh, I you know,
B:	Right.
A:	Nobody should get that way about the news. And what's going on in the world.
B:	Right.
B:	Oh, do you have a certain station you like to watch when you watch it
B:	or,
A:	Yes.
A:	We like channel eight.
B:	Do you?
A:	We like it.
A:	It's the best.
B:	Um, channel five for some reason has always been the one I watch.
A:	Is that been your favorite?
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I, I don't know
B:	it's probably the anchors.
B:	They just kind of catch you.
B:	I don't, I don't know.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I very
A:	and I thought it was very interesting, uh,
A:	channel nine watching it when the murders were in Killeen
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and, and going on.
A:	They were having news coverage
A:	and,
B:	The C N N, is that what that is?
A:	No,
A:	it was channel nine.
B:	Huh.
A:	And, you know they have that hour that nine to ten of an evening.
B:	Oh.
A:	And so we had the T V on
A:	and we were trying to catch all of it,
A:	and they were showing some
A:	and I was watching,
A:	my husband and I were watching it,
A:	and then we switched over to channel eight,
A:	and the difference in coverage was unbelievable.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I can understand why channel eleven is, uh, you know, why they're kind of behind.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Did I say channel nine to begin with?
B:	Yeah
B:	That's why I wondered.
A:	No
A:	Okay.
A:	No, channel eleven I meant.
B:	I don't get that channel
B:	Yeah.
A:	I was thinking nine to ten.
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah.
A:	But channel eleven,
B:	That is if you, if you want to go to bed early
B:	it's nice to, to, to watch that early news sometimes,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	so.
A:	It, uh,
A:	but the coverage wasn't near as good as when we, you know, switched over to channel eight
A:	and they didn't
A:	Okay,
A:	would you, uh, like to begin or would you like me to start?
B:	Uh, oh, I can start.
A:	Okay.
B:	I, I think one of the, the biggest, uh, improvements in women is that finally you're starting to see them get into, uh, management
A:	Yes.
B:	and you're seeing them, uh, get, uh, elected to, uh, political offices. Uh, not near enough.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I know there's still a long way to go especially in top management
A:	Yes,
A:	I agree.
B:	You're not seeing, you know,
B:	looking at T I, you see them in management, but you're not seeing them up there as V P
A:	Right.
B:	And I have a sister that's an attorney in Oklahoma City,
B:	and I know the company that she was with, uh,
B:	the women didn't have near the positions, the levels that the men attorneys had. And were not, uh, given the same respect.
A:	Right.
A:	I agree with that.
A:	I, I think you do see more and more women out there in politics, too, as mayors or, uh, you know, in, in helping to maybe, uh, get some legislation passed to, to have women have more rights.
B:	Yes.
A:	I think still, even with that whole, um, thing with Judge Thomas and, and, uh, you, you still felt like the woman was the one that you would maybe discredit first before the man
A:	or something the way they had the trial
A:	and uh, I just think that it's, it's still going to take another generation or so before, before the women really, could really feel that they're really equal in the business world and that they work just as hard or harder
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	uh-huh.
B:	Right,
B:	right.
A:	Uh, but it's still, uh,
A:	going from, from homemakers into, uh, corporate leaders is still a big step.
B:	Right,
B:	I also think that, uh, uh, women as homemakers are beginning to get more respect than they used to be.
B:	Used to be people would say, do you work, and you'd say, no, I work in the home
B:	and
A:	Right.
B:	it was, it was, then it was almost like a put down, particularly, particularly even by women in the work force.
B:	But, I think now, I think people are realizing that the roles women play in the home are very, very important.
A:	Yes.
B:	And it's getting the respect and, which is about time.
A:	I think it's true.
A:	I think also people are having children at a older age
B:	Yes,
B:	very definitely.
A:	so it's maybe like, uh, you know,
A:	you go through college
A:	and then you maybe work for a few years
A:	and then you have your first child
A:	and, uh, you know, you, you know both sides of the coin.
B:	That's right.
A:	You know what it's like and how much work it takes to keep the house running smoothly, and to take care of the kids.
A:	And, and then, uh, maybe people that are just working and think, oh, you just stay at home.
A:	But then when they're in their thirties and have their first and second kid, it's like, they lose it
B:	Right.
A:	They say, wow!
A:	This is harder than I thought
B:	Yes
A:	Well, you know.
B:	And, and, to those that have never worked and had, you know, and have stayed home with the kids, kind of does your heart good
A:	I know it,
A:	I know.
B:	Because I know I stayed home with mine and didn't start working until mine were in high school.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, uh, so, you know, it, it kind of does me good.
B:	I think also one of the things that, that's really tremendous and, it doesn't necessarily have to do with women, but the fact that the fathers are so involved with families.
A:	Are so involved.
A:	Yes.
A:	Right,
A:	right.
B:	You know,
A:	Their role has to change to kind of accommodate us, too.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	uh-huh.
A:	I know,
A:	I have three children
A:	and my oldest is eleven
A:	and I've pretty much been home, uh, since Brian was born
A:	and, uh, just recently I went back to work, uh, last school semester to tutor, uh, high school age students with learning disabilities
A:	and I was just out of the house two days a week
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but, I thought, wow, this is really hard,
A:	only,
A:	and it was only two days
A:	and I was home before three.
A:	But getting the baby to day care, getting the kids off to school, I still did everything I always do, you know,
A:	my husband still got up and went to work
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but, uh, it, it,
A:	only those two,
A:	it made a big difference.
A:	I thought, wow, full time,
A:	I don't think I could swing that personally.
B:	Well, I had to,
B:	course, I work full time,
B:	but my daughter and her husband were out of town
B:	so I had my grandchildren for four days during, uh, football, soccer season
A:	Oh.
A:	Oh, boy.
B:	and so I would work
B:	and her,
B:	some friends would take care of the kids,
B:	but I would have to get them picked up from there get them fed, get them to practices get homework done, get baths.
A:	Pick up. Dinner.
A:	Right.
B:	I was absolutely exhausted.
A:	I bet,
A:	I bet.
B:	And, and these women that are waiting until they're in their late thirties, or early forties to have their first children, I think are absolutely crazy.
A:	Well, I, I know a lot of people,
A:	I know I had my first child when I was twenty-five,
A:	and that's not considered really young these days,
A:	that's almost, you know
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but, uh, I have friends that, that have kids just starting kindergarten
A:	and they're, they're forty years old.
A:	And, and then like maybe a two year old at home,
A:	and I think, boy, I, I'm, I'm in my
A:	Okay,
A:	do we just go ahead?
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Okay.
B:	Do you want to start?
A:	Uh, well, we're supposed to talk about vacations
B:	Right.
A:	and, uh, I'm trying to think of the ones that I've been on that I liked the most
A:	and probably the one I liked most was Hawaii
B:	Oh, did you get to go to Hawaii?
A:	Yes.
B:	Yeah,
B:	we went there for our twenty-fifth wedding anniversary.
B:	It's lovely, isn't it?
A:	Yes.
A:	We went, uh, six months after we were married.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And we just went to, uh, two islands.
B:	What islands did you go to?
A:	We went to Oahu and Kauai.
B:	Kauai,
B:	uh-huh.
B:	We went to Kauai,
B:	and then we also hit Maui,
B:	and then, of course, uh
A:	The big one.
B:	uh, the big one,
B:	uh-huh.
A:	Oh.
B:	With, uh, the big one I thought was very commercialized.
A:	Oh, yeah.
A:	It was.
B:	But the other two were just lovely.
A:	Yes,
A:	I enjoyed Kauai better, too.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	it was quiet and restful, and, and so beautiful.
B:	It wasn't commercialized.
A:	Oh, it was rainy
B:	Yeah
B:	was it?
A:	Rainy,
A:	but, you know, we don't like to spend the money to go over there and sit on the beach anyway
A:	so,
B:	That's right.
B:	Well, it wasn't real rainy.
B:	We had a few showers, but, uh, nothing that really got in the way with anything and just very brief ones
B:	and, and, when, uh,
B:	now we went to Nassau
B:	and my husband liked it better than he did Hawaii.
A:	Oh, really?
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Oh.
B:	Yeah,
B:	he really did.
B:	I don't know why.
B:	You know, he didn't like Oahu at all
B:	He thought
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Oh.
B:	Did you go there?
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	That was wonderful
A:	Yeah.
B:	and we both enjoyed it very much.
A:	That was That was nice,
A:	uh-huh.
A:	You know, I've been to Nassau, too.
B:	Have you?
A:	I went on a cruise.
B:	Oh, neat.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	and, uh, to tell you the truth, I, I think I'd rather just go to the island.
B:	Yeah,
B:	uh, our son and daughter-in-law just, uh, they got married last January and they won a cruise.
B:	And I know they didn't like it.
B:	Now, we have several friends that, uh, have been on, and just love them.
B:	But James and I like,
B:	I don't know,
B:	I think we would get bored on the boat all the time.
A:	Well, I, got sick.
B:	Oh, did you?
A:	Yeah,
A:	I did the first night.
A:	I went with my sister just, uh, a couple years ago
B:	Ooh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and, and we both, the first night, just had to leave dinner.
B:	Um.
A:	It was bad,
A:	but, and then after that it was, it got better,
A:	but we just,
A:	it was a four day
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and we were both ready to get off the boat.
B:	Were you?
A:	Yeah.
B:	Well, I think if we ever go, it will only be for a three day.
B:	Now we've been real lucky.
B:	We've been to Europe twice.
A:	Oh, have you?
B:	Yeah.
B:	We went, the first time we went to London, Europe and touched a little bit of Scotland
B:	And second time we went to Munich, Germany and were there a week, and loved Germany.
A:	Oh.
B:	It is just absolutely gorgeous with the mountains
A:	Wow.
A:	I'll bet it is.
B:	and we were there in the fall before the snows, you know, started
B:	and it was wonderful.
B:	It, uh it was just, it was marvelous.
A:	Oh.
B:	And we would love to go back there
B:	and we'd love to go back to London.
A:	You haven't been to Spain?
B:	No
A:	Oh.
B:	have not been to Spain.
A:	I was born there.
B:	Were you?
A:	Yes
B:	How old were you when you left?
A:	Uh, just ten months.
B:	Oh, ten months,
B:	uh-huh.
A:	Yeah,
A:	so,
B:	Have you ever got to go back?
A:	No,
A:	no,
A:	and I would like to.
B:	Would you?
B:	My, uh, my sister,
B:	we went with them to Germany
B:	and, uh, she would like to go to Spain.
B:	I'm not sure whether I would like to or not.
A:	Huh.
B:	And, uh, I would like to go to Ireland.
A:	Would you?
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Now, now I don't know if I'd like to go there just from the the problems.
B:	Well, the
B:	there is
B:	uh-huh,
B:	is, is a little scary,
B:	but I would still like to see it.
B:	I'd like to see, uh, Italy.
A:	Oh, yeah,
A:	yeah.
B:	I would love to go there.
A:	That would be nice.
B:	And, course, there is a lot of places in the United States I still want to come, you know, go to.
A:	Now, have you been to Yellowstone?
B:	Uh,
A:	Yellowstone,
B:	Yes,
B:	yes.
A:	Have you?
B:	We have been there.
B:	We, I was there as a child and then we, we went to California and came back through Yellowstone with our kids.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And they loved it.
A:	Well,
B:	I was in Utah, in Salt Lake City when I was a, uh, youngster.
A:	Oh, uh-huh.
B:	So, uh, you know, I've touched on that.
A:	Yeah,
A:	now I'm just about, oh, a half hour, uh, north of Salt Lake.
B:	Oh.
A:	So, uh, it's at
B:	Yeah.
A:	my husband works in Salt Lake,
A:	so
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	we're real close
A:	and, yeah,
A:	we,
B:	Now that's a pretty city.
A:	Yes,
A:	we, we like it.
B:	Very clean. You know.
A:	Yeah.
A:	It is.
B:	Utah is a pretty state from what I remember of it.
A:	Well, we kind of like it
B:	Uh-huh
A:	Well, do you like to camp, those kind of trips?
B:	We,
B:	no,
B:	we used to
B:	We used to camp a lot with our
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Oh, you like the motels?
B:	We like the motels,
B:	yes
A:	Oh, oh, well.
B:	We have, we've gone past the camping stage.
B:	We lived in Chattanooga, Tennessee for two years.
A:	Oh, did you?
B:	And we did a lot of camping out there in the Smokeys
B:	and it was beautiful
B:	and our kids loved it and everything
B:	and then we moved to, uh, uh, the Dallas area
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, uh, it's hot down here
B:	and camping is not near as much fun.
A:	Oh.
B:	And, uh, so, and then the kids were getting older and, and were involved in activities so the camping sort of went by the wayside. And, uh, although our son loves to fish
A:	Huh.
B:	and, uh, and our daughter and her husband are talking now about starting camping with their boys now that they have gotten older.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	So I've been concerned about crime lately.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh, it's really scary to listen to the news every night and to hear about all the problems.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I wondered if you were taking any special precautions in your neighborhood?
B:	Well, I, I think we have a neighborhood watch
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I think.
B:	I'm not real,
B:	we don't get real involved.
B:	We're never home,
B:	so
A:	Uh-huh
B:	uh, uh, well, I know they were going to start one,
B:	but, uh, I haven't heard any more since,
B:	so I don't really know.
B:	But as far as personally doing something, no.
A:	No, um.
B:	How about you?
A:	Well we moved in, when we moved in, there, there wasn't any outside lights
A:	and so we've been trying to install some, uh, outside lights
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and we put up a fence in the backyard.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Mostly, you know, not so much thinking that we would deter someone to break in, but that our children would be safe playing in the yard. You know.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Huh.
A:	And I guess most of the crime that I'm concerned about generally is against my kids. To let them go play with someone and because of what you hear about people getting picked up and everything
B:	Oh, I'm sure it is.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and so I have to spend a good deal of time watching them walk down the street and, say, call me before you leave and come back
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and,
B:	We don't have any.
B:	We did install a, a a, uh, motion detector light back in our driveway.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And that was, mainly it was so when we pulled up, the light would come on,
B:	but also we have a boat back there
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and we have neighborhood kids that like to get into mischief,
B:	so
B:	we thought with that light, you know, it would maybe keep them from doing something to the boat
B:	Yeah
B:	so,
A:	Well, we've been real lucky that,
A:	I don't believe there's been, you know, much trouble in our neighborhood,
A:	but it  but it does seem there, that there is a lot more here in Plano of, uh, just bored teenagers
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah,
B:	that's
A:	Vandalism.
B:	what it is.
B:	We live in, Coppell
B:	and, and that's pretty much what it is, is you know, kids that are bored, like you say.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah,
A:	and they don't, uh,
A:	I know my sister-in-law who lives in our neighborhood they've had their,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	they parked their car out on the street before and it's been spray painted and a few things like that
B:	Oh, no.
A:	and, course, you know,
A:	I don't know
A:	I'm getting scared for kids to get older,
A:	because you don't know if it's someone their teenagers know who, and, or is it just random crime,
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but, uh, we've been real lucky that no one in my family with the, anywhere that they live has had, been a victim of, you know, a serious crime.
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah.
A:	But, uh, it's really scary to know that you can live a normal life and try to be a good citizen but it doesn't mean you'll be safe
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and, But, I guess I take a lot of, uh, little bit of, uh, safety in knowing that a lot of the crimes that they report are, like drug related or uh, things that,
B:	Uh-huh,
A:	places usually that I wouldn't be going. And things I usually wouldn't be involved in.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	uh-huh.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And, uh, there's not so much of it completely innocent victims compared to,
B:	Yeah.
A:	but it is scary.
B:	Yeah,
B:	it is.
A:	Were you raised in this area?
B:	Really is
B:	Yeah.
B:	I'm originally from Chicago, but I've been in this area, in the Lewisville area for, uh, let's see, about twenty-three years.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	So, has it been getting worse that you noticed, or  about the same?
B:	Oh  definitely.
A:	Um.
B:	In the last few years, I think,
B:	and, uh, like I say,
B:	now I don't think necessarily in this area here, but just Dallas in general.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I don't know,
B:	I think back of when I was, uh, younger and in my party days, some of the things I did, you know, I wouldn't be caught dead, like, being out that late at night.
A:	Right.
B:	In the dark parking lot
A:	Right.
A:	Take a lot of chances.
A:	Well, I noticed that, uh, that, uh, when
A:	we, we moved here from Houston not too long ago.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And so, of course, we were interested in schools
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and, uh, but the schools in Houston all have big, tall fences around them
A:	and they're not really very safe
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and so it's been interesting to come to the Plano area where the schools don't have fences at all around them,
A:	and it's just a whole different idea that, that, at least the people here feel that their kids are pretty safe at school.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And in Houston that there was the mentality that they weren't safe at school.
B:	Huh.
A:	And so that's been something that's been good for the, you know, in this area that you feel like, uh, you know, there's not going to be too many knifings or shootings at school today.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And I guess,
A:	I don't know how people live with that every day.
B:	Um.
B:	I don't either.
A:	Pretty scary.
B:	Yeah, um.
A:	But, anyway, well, I guess I won't take up more of your
A:	Well, I am new to Texas,
A:	so I don't even know what the law is, in the state,
B:	Uh-huh?
A:	do you?
B:	Well, yes,
B:	of course, we do have capital punishment.
B:	And we've, you know, done away with our, quote, fair share number.
A:	Oh, that's right,
A:	I think now, that I recall, reading about it in the paper.
B:	Yes.
A:	Um, you know, different things,
A:	is it restricted to certain crimes?
A:	Or just,
B:	Yes,
B:	it's certain crimes, uh, capital crimes, murder, of course, uh, rape, this sort of thing.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Um. Well.
B:	It seems to be a disproportionate number of blacks, you know, that get into the system.
A:	Yes,
A:	I know,
A:	the one thing that I think is really sad about it, as I recall, from the articles that I've read, is that if, if people who have been there, are going to be killed. Um, there's people that come to the prisons and they're very violent
A:	and, they want,
A:	I mean they're anxious for someone to be killed
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yes.
A:	I just,
A:	I can't see that.
B:	That happens on occasion,
B:	it sure does,
B:	maybe it just depends on, you know, how closely the crime, you know, has affected you personally.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	You know, I don't know,
B:	or a person personally.
A:	No.
B:	I think I would be, you know,
B:	I guess, really if I had to say yes or no, I guess I would say, you know, that I am in certain cases, in favor of the death penalty,
B:	I don't know that it's a big deterrent really.
B:	I don't know that it is.
B:	I don't know how we'd ever find out, you know, really whether it is or not.
A:	Well, there is so many chances for appeal, that it
B:	Oh, yeah,
B:	oh, absolutely,
B:	yeah,
B:	it goes on for years and years, and costs hundreds of thousands of dollars, taxpayer money.
A:	it's really sad.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I don't know,
A:	I just think, um,
A:	somehow I hoped that as a people we could be better than, than, um, expecting, the feeling that it
B:	Yes.
A:	with,
A:	Is really kind of bad
B:	Yes
B:	it is.
B:	It's a tough, tough question.
B:	It really is.
B:	I suspect I would be, uh, you know, a lot more favor of it if, you know, one of my children were, you know, brutally killed, or something like that.
B:	Like I say, I think it depends on how personally affected, you know, you might be by it.
A:	and there really are criminals that are hard-core and, repeat, and never have any chance for,
B:	Oh, absolutely.
B:	that's right.
A:	Oh, I don't know,
A:	is it,
A:	do you feel at all like, it's a religious issue?
B:	Not with me personally.
B:	It is with a lot of other people.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	It's not, not to me personally,
B:	no.
A:	Um.
B:	No.
A:	I don't know,
A:	sometimes I feel,
A:	I mean I do go to church and things.
A:	I don't know how I would feel about it.
A:	But like you say, if it hit you personally, closer at home you would feel, feel differently.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yes.
B:	That's a, it's a tough, tough question,
B:	it really is.
A:	Do you think most states have that
A:	or?
B:	Yes,
B:	I think most states do have capital punishment.
B:	Yes.
B:	But, I think the U S is one of the few countries that still do.
A:	That still does it,
A:	that's right.
B:	Yes,
B:	they're only,
B:	I was reading something about it the other day,
B:	I think there was only like six or eight countries in the world, that have capital punishment still.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	A lot of them had to have elected not to do so.
B:	Now I don't know, what they do in place of it.
B:	You know, maybe it's life in prisonment or, you know, something,
B:	I I don't know how they handle it
B:	I was surprised to learn that so few countries have capital punishment.
A:	Have that.
A:	Well, and it doesn't seem like very many people, uh, are really, I mean,
A:	there's a lot of people that are on death row. But there's not very many people that actually, um. do get killed.
B:	Oh, yes.
B:	Yes,
B:	a lot of them do get their sentences commuted to something else.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	So, it seems like a of people live there,
A:	and then through appeals.
B:	Yes.
A:	Because I know they do frequently,
A:	I mean they cover, cover it pretty heavily on television and the newspaper.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yes.
A:	If it finally gets to that point.
B:	Right,
B:	the first appeal is automatic,
B:	so that delays it for a few years just right off the bat.
A:	Yeah.
B:	There's, there's a lot of, you know, last minute, uh, things that happen cause a person not to, have to go through the whole thing.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	So is it, uh,
A:	are we doing lethal injection now?
B:	Yes,
B:	uh-huh.
B:	That's, that's fairly recent, I don't know, how recent, but fairly recent, in the state of Texas.
B:	Before that, it was, uh, death by electrocution.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	which seems so awful.
B:	Yes,
B:	it certainly does.
A:	So, it's a little bit more humane,
A:	I guess, it is,
B:	Yes,
B:	it would almost have to be, I suppose.
B:	If you, if you had to chose, I guess I would, I am sure I would take the lethal injection.
A:	Yes,
A:	the other one just seems so terrible.
B:	Yes,
B:	absolutely.
A:	Um.
B:	It's a, it's a tough question.
B:	It really is.
B:	I guess, if I had to say yes or no, I would say, you know, yes.
B:	I, I would have to lean toward capital punishment, you know, for certain crimes.
A:	Well, do you think that we do it because we want it to deter crime
A:	or, it's not because we don't want to pay for inmates to stay in prison?
B:	No,
B:	I don't think it's a monetary thing.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I think,
B:	we hope that it will be, you know, some sort of deterrent or, you know, an eye for an eye type thing, or something like that.
A:	Um.
B:	Some of the crimes are just so brutal and so, you know, useless.
B:	This may seem to be the best way out.
B:	I don't know.
A:	Yes.
B:	Easiest way out maybe.
B:	No,
B:	I don't think it's a monetary thing.
A:	Um. Well, um, and I notice that the crime rate was up in the Dallas area
A:	It's, It's kind of been scary, to think about it
B:	Yes,
B:	especially the murder rate, its just gone crazy.
B:	Yes.
A:	and, And you're hoping there is something that will cut down on that.
B:	Absolutely.
B:	Yes,
B:	I wish I had the answer for that,
B:	everybody does.
A:	You hate to have the dubious honor of being, you know, so high in the, in statistics,
B:	Yes,
B:	it's nothing to be proud of,
B:	certainly not.
A:	But I, you know,
A:	we have been really fortunate
A:	our family, hasn't had any crime.
B:	Yes.
B:	Yes,
B:	so have we been very, very fortunate.
A:	And, so we don't,
A:	it's harder to think about the poor people that have suffered that way.
B:	That's right.
B:	Absolutely.
A:	And how they would expect, how they would hope,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I mean you, you hear of people who have, um, committed crimes, and then they get out of jail and they go, and they do the same thing again.
B:	Absolutely.
A:	And you wonder why they can't just stop it.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	That's right.
A:	So, maybe you would,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but still I would hate to be on the jury that sentenced someone.
B:	So would I,
B:	I fortunately, I have never been in that circumstance,
B:	I hope I never am, like, like everybody else.
A:	No,
A:	I know when, um,
A:	we just, we moved here, uh, I from the, I got a summons, jury summons,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	just like constantly, it seemed like,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but fortunately I had small children
A:	and I didn't have to go.
B:	Right.
A:	And it's not that,
A:	I mean, I think everyone should have to serve on the jury,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	it's just that, I didn't,
A:	I hate having to be in charge of someone else's life.
B:	Sure,
B:	it's, it's a big responsibility,
B:	it really is.
A:	And I would hate to have to hear any kind of case, involving a violent crime or anything.
B:	Yes.
B:	So would I.
A:	That would be really awful.
B:	Yes.
B:	Absolutely.
A:	Well, anyway, I sure have enjoyed, uh, talking to you about this. Although it has been difficult
A:	but, uh.
B:	It is, it's a tough subject,
B:	it really is.
A:	I'd hate to decide it, but I guess, uh, guess it's important, that we decide as a people what, what we're going to do.
B:	Right.
B:	That's right.
A:	Anyway, well, you have a good day.
B:	Well, thank you,
B:	it's nice talking to you.
A:	Thank you,
A:	bye-bye.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Bye-bye.
A:	Well, Patricia, I was just about to get on my tread mill,
A:	and then I remembered that I didn't make a call last night,
A:	and I thought I'd make one tonight.
B:	Well, I have an exercise bicycle in my bedroom, but it usually's holding clothes
A:	That's what I did with mine, for a long time, put it on the handlebars so I can hang them up.
B:	Right
A:	And sometimes she just flops them all over the seat.
B:	Well, that's not why I got it,
B:	right
B:	How do you like your tread mill?
A:	I like it.
B:	You don't get,
B:	is it less boring than the bicycle or not.
A:	No,
A:	it's just as boring.
B:	You watch T V or something while you do it?
A:	I read a book while I'm doing it.
B:	Oh.
A:	But I was doing that on the exercise bike.
B:	Well, I do that too.
A:	I feel like I'm getting a little better of a workout, and I'm losing more weight on this than on the other.
B:	Really.
B:	Are you?
A:	And my legs, you know,
A:	how,
A:	okay,
A:	I'm going to turn forty this summer,
A:	I was getting all dimpled up
B:	Yeah.
A:	And those are going away.
B:	Really.
A:	So that's real good.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	We got it at a little bit of an incline.
B:	Are they kind of expensive.
A:	this is five hundred.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I know they get cheaper.
B:	They do?
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Probably the more you pay, though, the better the machine you have.
A:	Well, I hope so.
B:	Well, you can believe that anyway, right.
A:	Yeah.
A:	I didn't buy it really.
A:	My husband bought it because we, we'd never get out and go walking or anything,
A:	and we go to the lake
A:	and we ski and swim in the summer
A:	but  besides that,
B:	During the year.
A:	uh-huh.
B:	Yeah,
B:	well, in bad weather, you know, well you'd have to do something inside.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Do you work at T I?
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	I think, your voice sounds familiar.
B:	Really.
A:	Where do you
B:	I live in Arlington.
A:	I wonder if we talked before.
B:	Where do you live?
A:	I'm in Garland.
B:	No, uh,
B:	well,
A:	You sound like this girl that I talked to about books, and we got into movies one night.
B:	Oh, really.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh, no,
B:	this is the first time I've done it.
B:	Uh, my husband was just running out the door,
B:	he's working at night tonight.
B:	So I decided to do it
B:	I haven't talked before.
B:	Uh, what subjects have you talked about?
A:	Let's see,
A:	education.
B:	Oh
B:	Well, that's interesting.
A:	that one was.
B:	It's more interesting than the treadmill and the bicycle.
B:	Right?
A:	The most boring one was about what meal would you cook for a sit down dinner.
B:	Oh, my goodness
A:	The other woman didn't cook too much either.
A:	Right.
B:	really have a lot of variety.
A:	Yeah,
A:	they do.
A:	I talked to this old woman that was a retired administrator in Ohio one night about education.
B:	Oh,
A:	And she was,
B:	A school administrator.
A:	Uh-huh,
B:	Well that could, That would have been interesting.
A:	Retired, but.
A:	Yeah,
A:	and then one night I talked to these two guys, no, one night I talked to one guy
A:	and then a couple of weeks later I talked to the guy's roommate, in Virginia, about different things.
B:	Really,
B:	well that's neat.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	One was about painting.
A:	When was the last time you painted something?
A:	Did you feel like you did a good job?
A:	Did you feel, uh, rewarded while you were doing it.
B:	Hm.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	How long is this going to go on, do you know?
A:	I don't know.
B:	I don't either
B:	It's interesting, though.
B:	I never heard of such a project before.
A:	Huh-uh.
A:	Well, how'd you find out about it?
B:	Pardon me?
A:	How did you find out about it?
B:	Oh, I don't know.
B:	I guess my husband got a letter at the office,
B:	I, I presume,
B:	and they must have been asking.
B:	Does your husband work with T I.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Oh really.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	I have a friend that had a roommate that worked at T I
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and she saw it on the computer screen and they made copies of it.
B:	Oh, so they wanted any, anybody,
B:	don't have to work at T I.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Well, that's interesting.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I had no idea that was just for the employees,
B:	and I couldn't understand,
B:	I kept getting these calls,
B:	I thought it was an advertisement and they just were also called T I, you know,
B:	there is Texas Industries and different things.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I kept hanging up on them for days, until my husband told me what it was
A:	Oh
B:	I didn't know.
A:	Well, if you work for T I you're supposed to get a prize, is what I heard,
A:	and if you don't work for them you're supposed to get cash.
B:	Ooh.
A:	But then on the letter it says cash or prize.
B:	Oh.
B:	Well the prizes are pretty nice.
B:	He brought a booklet home
B:	and depending on how many calls, I think three was the minimum.
B:	But it went up to, I don't know, nine or ten.
A:	I don't know,
A:	gobs.
A:	This is going on my fourth week to do it.
B:	Oh, my.
B:	And some of the prizes are pretty nice.
A:	Well, like what,
A:	tell me.
B:	Oh, I wish I had that booklet here.
B:	Oh, I think I do,
B:	it's right here.
B:	I'll look at the end because those would be the best ones, okay?
A:	Yeah.
B:	Um, well, they have some watches that look really nice.
B:	There's one that's got some diamonds on it.
A:	For how many calls?
A:	Does it say?
B:	I haven't quite figured that out.
B:	I thought it was eight or nine,
B:	but seems like too nice a prize for nine, just nine calls, isn't it?
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Says when we have enough calls from you, you will receive in the mail a numbered certificate for your calls and and explanation how to redeem, for gifts.
A:	background saying Stephen did you start the
A:	in background: pour some charcoal in
B:	Are you listening to him?
A:	No,
A:	I'm trying not to.
A:	He's telling me to start the grill.
B:	Oh
B:	It says three for a B gift, five for a C gift, et cetera.
B:	And this only goes up to F.
B:	So I thought that was somewhere around nine.
B:	But anyway, it's got these beautiful watches on it.
B:	Let me see what else
B:	it has a, uh, clock radio that also plays uh, you know, tapes.
B:	Then it's got, oh some binoculars, and some pretty brass lamps.
B:	Got some, oh, a food processor.
A:	So it's not all stuff that T I makes.
B:	Oh no,
B:	I don't,
B:	I haven't seen anything in here that T I makes. The Mister Coffee, the double Mister Coffee, you know, the two.
B:	Oh, and there's a phone in here that's hilarious.
B:	It has a button you can push,
B:	if you get a call you don't like then it makes machine gun noise
B:	And then there's an attache case, and cordless telephone,
B:	and then there's a card table, doesn't have any chairs, just a card table. Oh, some more jewelry, suitcases,
B:	and have you seen those anniversary lamps where the little balls go around.
A:	You mean the clocks.
B:	Yeah,
B:	clocks.
A:	Yeah.
B:	I can,
B:	I'm going crazy,
B:	my daughter's playing the piano
B:	and I can't think.
A:	Oh, god.
B:	It's got one of those,
B:	and um, well, it's got a lot, I mean, pages and pages.
B:	It's got wheelbarrows. A lot of kitchen stuff, of the mixer, the toaster, a waffle maker, popcorn popper, all kinds of stuff like that.
B:	Here's where, here's a calculator but it's not even made by T I,
B:	isn't that funny.
A:	Did they mail that to you, or he brought it to you?
B:	He brought it home.
A:	Huh.
B:	I believe it came in his, uh, his mail.
B:	Here's a camera and a dustbuster and some tools, someone, a lot of tools, a man might like you know.
A:	Yeah,
A:	so you're bound to find something you want.
B:	Oh yeah,
B:	you're bound to.
B:	All kinds of phones and clocks
B:	and, uh, here's more jewelry
B:	and oh, there's even pictures and little porcelain things to put on a coffee table.
B:	Oh, here's some brass animals, brass candlesticks,
B:	they're pretty.
B:	So I'm sure you'd find something.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And, uh.
A:	Well, you know,
B:	Silver plated bowls and stuff. There's a lot of stuff, it's a big booklet.
A:	Well, do you know you have a ten limit, a ten minute time limit.
B:	Oh, no.
A:	Well that's okay,
A:	and then they come on and tell you, and they tell you got five seconds to say good-bye.
B:	Oh, well, it's been fun,
B:	this is my first time to do it.
A:	We'll keep talking if we want to come up with something else.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Let's see, oh,
A:	I tried exercise classes,
A:	and I never would go.
A:	We fin,
A:	we joined, ex.
B:	I went to Metropolitan a couple of years ago,
B:	so I sit and study,
B:	I sit in class,
B:	and I have really ballooned up since then,
B:	and, so, he's says I ought to join one of those that makes you go,
B:	but ,
A:	They don't either,
A:	Well the first one I joined, they went out of business
A:	and they transferred it to another one that was really far away.
B:	That's a very common experience.
A:	And we were going to do it,
A:	there was four of us together.
A:	Well, then forget that,
A:	it wasn't near me.
B:	No.
A:	And then the second time I was going to do it at Richland College,
A:	and we,
A:	I just get with another friend,
A:	and we'd end up just smoking cigarettes and riding around like we couldn't find the place
B:	That's funny
A:	So my husband's just discouraged me on those things.
B:	Right,
B:	well, if you, if you can make yourself do the tread mill, I mean, gosh, that's a good workout.
A:	Oh yeah,
A:	my husband said he's never joined a course, right.
A:	And I got one of those Jane Fonda workout tapes that I dubbed from a friend.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	That didn't last long
A:	I had a baby, I think
B:	Yeah,
B:	right,
B:	each one of those puts on a few pounds, doesn't it.
B:	How many children do you have?
A:	Two.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I do, too.
B:	Two,
B:	a girl, one's in college,
B:	so I don't have a, have a baby anymore
A:	Oh, Lord,
A:	you're lucky.
A:	Well, I've got a step-daughter,
A:	she's in college.
B:	Oh, well.
A:	So there's where the money goes.
B:	tell me about it,
B:	tell me, ,
A:	Where's you
B:	putting two of us through, isn't he lucky.
A:	Two.
B:	Well, me, I'm going, and my daughter Janet in Austin.
A:	Uh.
B:	Yeah,
B:	right.
B:	So, I'll probably have to sell the prize I get
A:	Where you going to school?
B:	U T A right here.
A:	And what are you doing?
B:	Well, I'm, um, going to be certified as an English teacher teach English as a second language.
A:	I just got my certification.
B:	You're kidding.
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	Oh, that's ,
B:	Hard.
A:	It's hard.
B:	Oh, no.
A:	It is so hard.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	how are the other ones.
B:	I haven't taken any of the exit tests.
A:	See I didn't have to take any other exit test because I've been teaching for quite a while.
B:	Oh, yeah,
B:	before they started ,
A:	But I've heard they're terrible.
B:	Really.
A:	Bilingual is just horrendous.
A:	I've had friends fail that twice.
B:	Really.
B:	I didn't know any of this.
B:	None of my friends have failed the English or the education ones
A:	Good.
B:	I really ought to take those quickly while I still remember some.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah,
A:	right after you get out.
B:	I know. .
A:	Boring
A:	and they really don't help you a whole lot.
A:	Now see, I went to E T
A:	and I took one course through T W U
A:	and boy yelling in most of the training I've got has been through Dallas just teaching E S L.
B:	Oh .
A:	From Chapter One Tea ...
A:	and she's expecting the end of this month,
A:	and she's the only one that lives near by.
B:	Oh, well that will be nice though.
A:	So the rest live in,
A:	one lives in Connecticut,
A:	and couple lives in Pittsburg,
A:	and one lives near D. C.
A:	So, uh ...
B:	But still sort of up in that general  area of the country
A:	Yeah
A:	Yeah
B:	so you can probably see them sometimes.
A:	Yeah,
A:	we see them once in a while, a couple of times a year at least,
B:	Yeah
A:	and the ones in Pittsburg, of course, we see more often,
B:	Yeah
A:	So, uh ...
B:	Okay.
A:	All right
A:	I'm ready to go.
B:	Well, uh, what kind of recycling do you have in your area?
A:	Well, they've been trying different things.
A:	One, one of the biggest problems seems to be we don't, they don't have anyplace to put some of the things that need recycled.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Right now we've recycled glass for years because we have a glass industry in our community.
B:	Oh, what,
B:	which one is that?
A:	Owens.
B:	Oh, uh-huh.
A:	Owens . Um,
A:	so glass has been recycled for a long time.
A:	Uh, we have a cycling area set up here at our house,
A:	the Boy Scouts have, and they've done that for years.
A:	Uh, the stores are recycling their plastic bags now.
A:	You can take them back in
A:	and they have bins to collect those. Uh, the aluminum cans.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	They try to do the, uh, newspapers
A:	and, uh, they had to close their area down because they couldn't sell it.
A:	They were,
A:	what they were doing was shredding it and trying to sell it to farmers for bedding for their animals,  and that type of thing.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And that didn't work,
A:	but, but somebody told me that they were charging as much for it as they did for straw. Which is why they couldn't sell it,
B:	Oh.
B:	Yeah.
A:	you know, because the farmers would buy the straw if it's a, you know, similar price.
B:	Sure.
A:	And let's see,
A:	is there anything else.
A:	Okay,
A:	I think by this Fall it's going to be required that the town of Clarion, which we'll live nearby, will have mandatory recycling started
A:	so,
B:	On just particular things
B:	or,
A:	Uh, mainly the glass, the aluminum, the plastics.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh,
B:	Well, it sounds like they're doing quite a bit.
A:	Well, we're working hard on it because we're fighting also in our area a large hazardous waste incinerator which we do not want built
B:	Uh.
A:	and, uh, we would like industry to do more before they build these big, huge incinerators.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And, uh, we, we just feel they should, they should offer industry some incentives to do more reducing of their waste products and reusing,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	them,
A:	because some of those companies that are doing it have, save money eventually.
A:	At first, apparently, it costs more to get started.
B:	Right.
A:	But once they get established, then it's a money saving thing.
B:	Well, our company does some things, all of which I couldn't even tell you about.
B:	I don't know all of them
B:	but,
A:	And what is T I?
B:	Uh, Texas Instruments.
A:	Oh, okay.
B:	Yeah .
A:	Gee,
A:	my, my son works for,
A:	no,
A:	not for that,
A:	okay.
A:	Excuse me, go ahead
B:	Well, I, I was just curious as how you got hooked up with this, this speech type of thing.
A:	Well, my son works in, uh, for the federal government.
A:	He's, he works in a computer laboratory.
B:	Oh
B:	and he,
A:	And, uh, it was through him that, that, uh,
B:	Yeah.
B:	Well, here at work, um, each one of us has two trash baskets in our office
B:	and one of those is designed for any kind of paper products that, um, they want to use, you know, for recycling.
B:	They can't deal with every type.
A:	Uh, maybe you could tell me, what is the difference between office paper waste and just like newspapers?
B:	Well, I guess I don't know specifically, except that, uh, for the paper that they want to recycle, they do not want any newspaper, um, and things like candy wrappers or, uh, that type of thing.
B:	Let's see,
B:	I have a list here.
B:	Um, they don't want lunch sacks or brown envelopes, uh, phone books.
B:	So there are, you know, a lot of kinds of things that they don't want, but then any kind of computer paper, letters, uh, booklets,
B:	they'll even take things that are bound.
A:	Um.
B:	Um, and it doesn't all have to be like white.
B:	They'll take colored folders,
A:	Oh, really.
B:	and, and, uh, even some of those can have plastic tabs on them.
A:	Um.
B:	So it's, it's hard to kind of figure out, you know, which things are the right ones.
A:	Um.
B:	I mean I, I'll frequently have to look at the list, if it's something that I don't throw away all the time.
A:	Yeah.
B:	But, um, they do that
B:	and then we use, uh, different chemicals and things,
B:	and I know that about how they take care of that sort,  of thing.
A:	Right,
A:	yeah.
B:	I, I don't know all the details,
A:	Right,
A:	yeah.
B:	but they're really on top of that.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And there probably some other things that I don't about because we're a real large company.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	And I just don't have contact with them.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But in our, uh, city,
B:	well, I live in a suburb of Dallas
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and they have initiated a newspaper recycling whereby they pick it up from your alley, uh, one day a week and all you have to do is bundle it.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh, all around Dallas there are a lot of recycling centers where you can take things, sometimes for money um, but most of those are real far away from like where I live at any rate.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Well it would be inconvenient to, in other words to,
B:	Very inconvenient,
B:	and, um, it's just, you know, hasn't been very practical to get into a lot of those things.
B:	If they would make it something where they, you know, would pick it up at the curb or at least make it, you know, down the street and at the corner,  type of thing, uh,
A:	Right,
A:	more areas where they would pick it up.
B:	Yeah,
A:	Yeah.
B:	that wouldn't be so bad.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Um, our grocery store, like yours, will take the, uh, plastic bags
B:	and they'll also take the, the paper bags back.
A:	Um, uh-huh.
B:	But, um, uh, you mentioned the, uh, glass type of stuff.
B:	The reason I ask you about that is years ago, and it, it changed names somewhere along the line, but, um, my dad used to work for Knox Glass in,  Knox, Pennsylvania.
A:	Oh, well, Knox is just over the hill here
B:	Oh, really?
A:	They,  they no longer are, you know, active.
B:	Yeah
B:	it's,
B:	Yeah,
B:	they were taken over by Glass Containers years ago,
A:	Yeah.
B:	and, but he worked for them for like thirty-one years.
A:	Oh, for heaven's sake.
B:	And he used to travel up there to Knox quite a bit,
A:	Yeah.
B:	and, and I even did once when I was a child,
A:	Oh, for heaven's sake.
B:	you know, so,
A:	Well, we only live probably about fifteen, twenty miles from Knox.
B:	Oh, really?
A:	Yeah,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	Yeah,
B:	we,
B:	I was looking through our photo album not long ago
B:	and they had,  had some pictures and things in there of Knox.
A:	I'll be darn,
A:	yeah.
B:	But, uh, I guess that's about it, you know, as far as what goes on that I know about.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
A:	I think people are getting more interested
A:	and they are more concerned.
A:	And we're just, we're just real concerned about this incinerator because we really, they want to put it right in, uh, in between two of our main water sheds that feed the Clarion River.
B:	Um.
A:	And, uh, we, we just, we just don't want it anyplace
A:	We feel that we, that they should give businesses more incentives to do more recycling and more reduction and, and more reuse and all those things that could be done.
B:	Yeah.
A:	We, we just don't think, we don't think some of the politicians are really interested in our best interests.
B:	Yeah
B:	that's,
A:	And, uh, it's, it's been a real struggle and a hardship for a lot of people in our area that we've, have, you know, have been fighting against this thing in trying to have things changed,  to make them more, more right,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but, uh,
B:	Well, I think probably more people, you know, would participate if they just made it a little easier,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and like you say, make it, um, better for companies to do these things, and get involved in it without huge cost to them,
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
A:	Right.
A:	Right.
A:	Uh, well,  We're, we're going to pay for that, that whether we pay industry or,  pay,
B:	Yeah,
B:	that's true.
A:	we, we've already paid industry for like these super fund that's cleaning up.
A:	We paid industry for it,
A:	we pay, all help to pay to have them haul it away from their place,
A:	and where they put it now they found it's not a safe place.
A:	It's leaked
A:	and now they have to clean those up,
A:	and it's our money that's cleaning this,  stuff up.
B:	That's right.
A:	And now they want to put it in,
A:	they burn it
A:	and that will make another hazardous dump
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and eventually they'll have to do something with that.
A:	We'll pay for it again,
B:	That's true.
A:	so why not pay industry.
A:	This is my feeling.
A:	Why not pay industry a little more,
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Also probably look at packaging and,  that sort of thing.
A:	definitely.
B:	We don't, we don't need three quarters of,  what we get.
A:	Huh-uh,
A:	huh-uh.
A:	No,
A:	but they think, and probably they're right, people buy it easier .
B:	I, uh,
B:	that's their marketing.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah.
B:	Well,
A:	And I know people would be willing to do more, like saving their newspapers and that, if they had a place to take them.
A:	We don't have anyplace right now that will take them.
B:	Yeah.
B:	I, I'm,
B:	guess our city, you know, in picking them up must take them somewhere else,  and get something for them.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Probably,
A:	yeah.
B:	But I don't that it's a big money,
A:	About how many calls have you made on this system?
B:	Uh, I've originated only a, a few.
A:	Oh, okay,
A:	yeah.
B:	But I've received quite a few.
A:	I, uh, I only started doing it after, uh, I started getting calls and said, oh, heck,
A:	that's right,
A:	I'm supposed to make a few calls.
A:	So I started about a month ago
A:	and I,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	this is getting close to twenty here which is I think is about all, uh, our little gift book goes up to,
A:	but I don't really know.
B:	Oh, yeah.
A:	I've got about twelve tickets in the mail.
A:	Do you have,
A:	you've a few?
B:	Yeah,
B:	I've been getting mine.
A:	Okay,
A:	medical
A:	go ahead,
A:	I'm, I'm medical.
A:	That's mine.
B:	Uh, you pushed the record button.
B:	We're supposed to be discussing the subject.
A:	Yeah.
A:	I, I'm benefits.
A:	Go ahead, you first.
B:	Yeah,
B:	uh, well, I'll tell you,
B:	I've been around for quite a few years and worked for a lot of different companies,
B:	and, uh, it's hard to beat any of the benefits that, or salaries either,  that we get from T I.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I'm quite pleased with it.
B:	Course there's a few things that, uh, I think I could do better if I was sitting up in the C E O's seat
B:	but, uh I think Jerry's doing a pretty good job as it goes.
A:	Oh, yeah.
A:	The one,
A:	it's kind of like, uh,
A:	automobile insurance,
A:	the ones, uh, that I think are the highest and important to me, uh, I hope I never have to use them, really per se, although I've used medical a little bit
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	that, well that one certainly is high,
A:	I, I worry that it's weakening rather than strengthening
A:	so I like to reverse that trend and say I'd like to get those to strengthen, you know,  be better and better.
B:	Well,
A:	Then salary continuance, I've never used that one.
A:	I hope I never will,
A:	but that's kind of like an insurance thing.
A:	I sure like that one.
B:	Oh, yes.
A:	That's like automobile insurance.
A:	You never want to get in an accident
A:	but it,
A:	you like to have it there.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Well, uh, like I say, I worked for several different companies
B:	and there's nothing to compare with, uh, T I here.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Now I really got caught up back in eighty-five,
B:	I got caught up in the oil layoff uh,
B:	I wasn't with G S I, but I was connected with, uh, uh, oil, uh,  exploration.
A:	Right.
A:	With T I, or somebody else?
B:	No,
B:	with T I.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But I say, I wasn't connected with G S I.
A:	Oh, right,
A:	yeah.
B:	And, I got caught up in a layoff.
A:	Um.
B:	Now, uh, course you get six months, uh, unemployment from the State
A:	Yeah.
B:	but, what T I did for us is, is, uh, I've never heard of it before. They fixed us up with an office with, uh, telephones, access to long-distance, uh, computers, a secretary to take messages for us or type, uh, letters,  for us.
A:	Right.
B:	Uh, they had out of town newspapers
B:	and then,
A:	And outside consultants.
A:	Didn't they have an outside consultant, too?
B:	I beg your pardon.
A:	Did they have an outside consultant, like a, the
B:	Uh, yes.
B:	They did have, uh, seminars every once in a while.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Uh, course that was not, uh, restricted just to just us.
A:	Right.
B:	But the most important thing was that, uh, they had made up the difference between, uh, unemployment pay and seventy-five percent of my net pay.
B:	And they then,
B:	T I paid me that.
A:	Oh, really?
B:	So, uh, I was able to, uh, not just exist.
B:	I mean, I, I lived just as comfortably as I did before I was laid off.
A:	Yeah,
A:	they seem to be doing a good job of that.
A:	I'm in facilities,
A:	and our organization built, builds those facilities over in Park Central now.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And I guess they've been using them for six months now.
A:	And I've known several engineers that got laid off
A:	and they said it's like getting a Ph D almost,
A:	they,
A:	the much they learn over there, you know, after they've been laid off, uh,
A:	one engineer said it was really an education.
A:	He, he just learned, like you,
A:	he said he learned a tremendous amount that he never would have able to pick up on his own.
A:	He was very thankful for that, too.
B:	Well, this was not a learning thing by any means.
B:	It was just a, uh,  an assistance trying to find another job.
A:	To have an office,
A:	yeah.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Well, he said he learned so much
A:	and how,
A:	he thought, he thought he had a Ph D in how to get a job after he was,  through the whole process,  for, for several months.
B:	Oh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	He did eventually get a job.
B:	Well, course I went through this, uh, what, about five years ago.
B:	They may have improved it considerably.
A:	Yeah, apparently.
A:	It's very sophisticated.
A:	And I guess it may be one of the best, uh, that anyone's doing.
B:	Well, that's one of those little, uh, uh, little extras that you don't see in the, uh, the, the, the handbook, you know.
A:	Right.
A:	You're absolutely right.
A:	That's a good one.
B:	It,
A:	What do you think about pensions?
A:	Anything on that or,
B:	Well, now I have, uh, uh,
B:	I'm getting close to retirement.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And, of course I've been looking into it but, uh, since I'm only a yellow badger,  I won't be getting a whole heck of a lot from T I,  as far as retirement is concerned.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Right.
A:	What do you think of a pension that goes from one company to the other like an account like a four O one account.
A:	I, I've been thinking about that for years, uh,
B:	I've never heard of such a thing.
A:	I know.
A:	That's what I'm saying that, that pensions,
A:	you see, just like you were, you're saying, you've only got, uh, so many years, And then just add the money together like you do with a four O one account, you know.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh, yeah.
A:	Uh, it's your account, period.
A:	It doesn't matter where you go or anything.
A:	That's your account to roll over.
B:	I,
B:	that, that sounds like a hell of an idea.
B:	I didn't know there was such a thing.
A:	No,
A:	no
A:	there isn't.
A:	I, I'm saying that's the question.
A:	What do you think could be better
A:	and I'm saying that pensions, say in the year two thousand or more when social security goes away, which it probably will,
A:	I think they ought to have a pension at least that you'd never lose.
A:	So you work for a company seven years,
B:	Yes,
B:	by all means.
B:	Well, what would be the difference between that and social security?
A:	Uh, well social security's going to go to way, I think
A:	and you can, or you can invest your own money.
A:	You have no control over your social security.
A:	And it's not paid for by the current,
A:	like when,
A:	say we retire after the year two thousand, social security's paid for by the twenty-five year olds.
A:	it's there.
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah.
A:	You don't have to depend on anybody to be putting that money in for you, you know.
A:	That's just a thought.
A:	I mean, I,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	if they say which,
B:	No,
B:	I, I like the idea.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Course, that's, that's, something like an I R A
A:	Yeah,
A:	and instead of having a, a socialized pension, it just would be really money that you and your company,
A:	maybe you had to put some money in it, too,
A:	I don't really know.
A:	But I,  I can see where they'd need to do something on that because the statistics are,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	you don't work for a company twenty years through no fault of your own, you know.
A:	You work for five, six, seven,
A:	and
A:	a lot of people I know, guys,
B:	Yeah,
B:	that, that's what I've done.
B:	I, I've bounced around.
B:	About every ten years,  I change.
A:	Yeah.
A:	I have, too,
A:	but not, not quite that often
A:	but, uh, yeah,
A:	I've only got, uh, I've got, I guess fourteen now here at T I,
A:	and I hope to make twenty-five which
A:	say if something happened to me,
A:	I mean, you know, they lay me off,
A:	so, you have a pension
A:	but then you'd have to try to get a pension in another one.
A:	It would be nice if they could get them together.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I do worry about medical, though.
A:	Again, knock wood that, uh, I haven't used it.
A:	I guess you,
A:	I'm sorry,
A:	you really do use it throughout the year, because you get your teeth fixed and all that,
A:	I mean, I,
A:	but I'm not,
A:	I'm talking about major items
A:	I haven't used it for anything major.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I'm glad it's there, though.
B:	Well, knock wood,
B:	I haven't used mine for anything major. Just doctor visits
B:	and, well, I, I have the, uh, the H O M A.
B:	I use H O M A.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And I like that, uh, a lot better than AETNA
A:	I have the regular.
A:	I, again, I just,
A:	I haven't,
A:	I can't complain about it because I haven't used it
A:	and every time I needed it, it, it, it's, uh, you know,  fallen right in line for the, the, minor things
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I guess I'm the one just supporting most of the others.
B:	Well, doesn't it work, you don't see, uh, uh, anything until you spend the minimum?
A:	Uh,
B:	Don't you have to spend the minimum of two, three hundred?
A:	yeah,
A:	yeah,
A:	I think it's two seventy-five for a family
A:	but the dental is right away,  if you,
B:	Yeah.
A:	exams. Uh,
B:	Well now, I have the same dental you have.
A:	Okay.
A:	Yeah,
A:	the medical you have to have a deductible.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Now, see I don't have a deductible.
A:	Yeah,
A:	right.
B:	I pay a straight five dollars for anything, a doctor visit or drugs
A:	Well, drugs are okay,
A:	now, I'm on that, uh, plan, where I take blood pressure medicine.
A:	If you take an allergy medicine, so, anything you need a prescription for, for more than six months, you get it for, used to be six bucks,
A:	they just raised it to twelve.
B:	Oh, that one I haven't heard about.
A:	Yeah,
A:	that's a typical, that's a typical one that's in there.
A:	The forms are right in personnel.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Fact, you may be able to take care, take advantage of that.
A:	It's through Baxter Labs. Uh,
B:	Yeah,
B:	I have high blood pressure problems myself.
A:	Maybe you still can do that.
A:	Do you, do you buy your pills one at a time?
B:	Yeah,
B:	thirty days at a time.
A:	Well, turn in your forms.
A:	Go right to personnel.
A:	I don't know whether you have to about an H M O.
A:	I don't think so.
A:	You turn,
A:	you get your doctor to give you a more than six months prescription
A:	and, uh, they're twelve dollars,
A:	again, they just were six,
A:	they just raised them to twelve this year. Twelve dollars for a three months supply. Or whatever, whatever the, the amount is, uh.
B:	Um.
A:	I don't want to say three months,
A:	but it's a lot cheaper,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	allergy medicine's really, uh, expensive
A:	and that blood pressure medicine is fairly expensive.
A:	I take two.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Go right to personnel.
A:	They got the forms in personnel
A:	and maybe,  maybe I'll tell you go something you didn't know about in benefits
B:	Yeah,
B:	great.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I just might do that.
A:	I do it,
A:	yeah,
A:	you know, it's a very common thing.
B:	Well thanks,
A:	It's through Baxter Labs,
A:	tell,
B:	thanks for the tip, Jim.
A:	Yeah.
B:	I shall look into it.
A:	Yeah.
A:	What else.
A:	I'm sure we're getting close to our five minutes whatever, here.
B:	Yeah
B:	Uh, let's see,
B:	we discussed, uh, uh, medical and dental,
A:	What other benefits,
B:	uh, retirement.
A:	Yeah,
A:	salary continuation.
A:	I think that's a great one,
A:	but again a hope I never use that one.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	That means you're really sick if you have to use that one.
B:	What about vacation?
A:	I'm satisfied with the vacation.
A:	I don't know what else, you know,
A:	you say, say you get another week and,
A:	I'm, well, I only got fourteen years
A:	so I'll get another week when I hit fifteen.
B:	Uh, yeah,
B:	that's right.
A:	So that's, that's fair,
A:	I mean, it's reasonable.
A:	Four weeks is a lot, I think.
A:	I know some people who have twenty-five years and thirty and they want more
A:	but, uh, you know,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh.
B:	Well, I'm, uh, I'm here,
B:	I've got just eleven years
B:	and I don't think I'll ever see a, a silver badge.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I won't, I won't be around that long.
A:	Well, the way things go, I think I'm going to have to work till I'm seventy-five whether I quit and, uh, uh, or when I retire get a part-time job,
A:	So, what do you think of our trial system?
B:	Huh, I don't really know what to think about it,
B:	but I do know that they're not, you know,
B:	they'll give somebody twenty-five years and they'll serve what, eight months.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Have you noticed that?
A:	Yeah,
A:	I have noticed that, that, that kind of stuff does seem to happen quite a bit, um,
A:	yeah.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	and, uh.
A:	I don't, I don't, I don't even know what to do about that sort of thing.
B:	But I think trial by jury is, it's a lot better than leaving it up to one person.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I think trial by jury is very good.
A:	I actually,
A:	they said, I think the tape said something about changing, uh, changing it such that the,
A:	or leaving sentencing up to the judge only.
A:	I think that's actually good idea.
B:	Leaving it up to the judge?
A:	just, just sentencing, not the trial itself.
B:	Oh, okay.
A:	Um, because I think that that, that judges are probably more informed as to what is, how serious the nature of the crime is, and stuff like that
B:	Yeah,
B:	well right
B:	because, the general public doesn't know that if, if they're sentenced to life that they won't serve life.
A:	an,
A:	Right.
B:	Course the judge will know when he'll be up for parole and all that.
B:	So yeah,
A:	Right,
A:	so he'll be able to give them the maximum sentence, in some cases there.
B:	Okay,
B:	I must not have understood the whole thing
B:	because I didn't hear them say that,
B:	but yeah.
A:	Oh yeah,
A:	the, the,
A:	they give that as, as an example of something that, that might happen
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	But I think if the entire trial was left to one person
B:	I've got a four year old,
B:	you can hear.
A:	Oh yes.
B:	But, uh, I don't know,
B:	you,
B:	too many people can take vendettas out on people, and everything.
A:	Right.
A:	Or just, you know,
A:	there are two people who say well he just looks guilty, um.
B:	Right,
B:	but that's true.
A:	That's actually, that's a wonderful way to get off jury duty, you know.
A:	Someone says to you, you know,
A:	when they ask you if you, uh, if you want to be on, you know,
A:	when you're called for duty say oh yeah, I want to be on jury duty because I can spot a guilty person a mile a way.
B:	Yeah.
A:	They quickly let you off jury duty I hear, um.
B:	Right
B:	because they, they know that you're biased.
A:	Oh, yeah,
A:	that, that, that, that, that's, that's the way it works there, um.
A:	Anyway, I think that probably for, for having it,
A:	what about, you know, about being unanimous.
A:	I mean, that's sort of a strange case because I wonder what happens when eleven people thinks someone's guilty and one person doesn't,
A:	one person thinks that, that they're not guilty
A:	and they can't decide for hours, unless they convince that one person, you know.
B:	Does it have to be unanimous?
A:	I believe it does have to be unanimous, actually.
B:	Well then they consider it a hung jury, I I think
B:	and then they, uh, have a retrial,
B:	or do they.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I think they either have a retrial eventually or, or they call it a mistrial or something.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I haven't been to law school.
B:	No,
B:	me neither.
A:	So, I don't know much about that,
A:	I just know that, um.
A:	I wonder
A:	'cause sometimes I think about it actually,
A:	I think well, what if I were that one person and I was completely convinced that, that, that, that this person wasn't guilty, you know.
B:	Well you don't have to be really convinced that he's guilty,
B:	it's just if they can't prove he's guilty
B:	because
A:	Right, uh,
A:	but, I mean what if eleven other people are saying one thing, you know, and you're, you're the one person saying the other thing.
B:	Yeah.
A:	You know, would you give in.
A:	Yeah
A:	saying .
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah.
A:	I wonder about those things, you know, or even if it's, you know,
A:	I, I guess if they were to say, well it doesn't have to be unanimous,
A:	what's the cut off number, seven, five, you know, six, six,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	you know, how do you decide.
A:	Is it, you know,
A:	how do you decide what number of people have to say that.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I know,
B:	it's too bad one of us don't have some knowledge on this,
B:	huh. But, but, um, I don't know,
B:	I just hope if I ever go to court that they all, unanimous on not guilty
B:	Well you've seen like these T V movies,
A:	Yeah.
B:	to child in Kyle, I'm talking,
B:	hush.
B:	talking to Speaker But, uh, well how they'll, you know,
B:	the,
B:	through the whole movie, you think this person's,
B:	I don't know,
B:	but one thing that I thought was pretty weird is how somebody can't be trialed, tried, uh, excuse me, twice for the same crime.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I've never quite understood that. Um.
B:	Well I just think it's, it's weird because I've saw, well, of course, soap operas,
B:	I'm an soap opera fanatic.
A:	Okay.
B:	This one guy had, uh, framed himself to make it,
B:	which
B:	he really did kill the person,
B:	but then he set it up where it looked like somebody was trying to frame him
B:	and he was on trial for it,
B:	and then, you know, it came out that he was being framed,
B:	so then he was found not guilty,
B:	and then,
B:	directly after the trial they found out he really was guilty
B:	and he couldn't be tried again.
A:	Right,
A:	and they can't do anything about it.
B:	Yeah,
A:	Yeah,
A:	I often wonder about that,
A:	I wonder if, if maybe, you know,
A:	I, I, I don't, I don't, I don't know the law on that
A:	but if they have new evidence, can they, can they retry,
A:	or can they, you know, bring you back.
B:	No,
B:	I don't think they can.
A:	Oh, actually, that's true,
A:	I've seen the same thing on L A LAW as well.
B:	about that woman.
A:	Yeah.
A:	so I and then I wonder why that, you know,
A:	there, there must be some sort of deep seeded reason for that,
A:	you know, something like, something like, well you can't be tried for the same trial because that would bias the, the, the, the jury or something,
A:	or, you know.
B:	Right,
B:	and I'm sure that, you know, it's the lawyers, uh, after the, uh, defendant, defending, oh, the defendant's lawyer and the prosecuting attorney.
A:	Yeah,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	I'm sure the prosecuting attorney could make a real good case if he, you know, knew all the details of the defendant's, you know, case.
A:	In, in, of the defense .
B:	Right
A:	Yeah,
A:	well, well there's also the issue of, for instance, you can't, um, you can't, very often you can't, um,
A:	when someone is, is on trial for something, you can't bring up prior convictions.
B:	Right.
A:	Which,
B:	like if they're on uh, trial for rape, you can't have any, you can't bring up the sexual assaults and stuff, or whatever.
A:	Right,
A:	that's completely beyond me,
A:	I mean that's
B:	Yeah,
B:	I know, if it's related,
A:	I wonder,
B:	if it's related to the crime, they should be able to.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I mean if this man is, is accused of raping someone, then I think that something like sex, you know, the fact that he sexually assaulted someone is a crucial bit of evidence, that adds to the fact,
B:	Yeah.
B:	Right,
B:	yeah.
A:	and I, I, I, I, I often,
B:	But they're not allowed to do that.
A:	I never understand, you know,
A:	again, having,
A:	I'm sure there are some deep seated reasons, you know, to,
A:	I mean, often times I wonder about rules like this
A:	and I'm sure that, that, that there are some reasons for good.
B:	Well that one does seem, that one does seem out of it, though, because it's, it, you're allowed to show their character,
B:	do you know what I mean.
A:	Right.
B:	And if it shows that their character's, you know, changes, gets capable of lesser thoughts like that and stuff.
A:	Then right,
A:	then, then,
B:	Right,
B:	that led to that.
A:	Then they should be
A:	yeah,
A:	I mean that's what I think,
A:	but I don't, um, but I don't quite understand.
B:	Tell you what we need to do is go into law and then we'll be able to,
B:	or vote.
B:	Do you vote?
A:	Do I vote?
B:	Yeah,
B:	do you vote?
A:	Oh yeah,
A:	I vote,
A:	yes.
B:	Okay,
B:	you'll help out a little bit
A:	Yeah.
B:	Putting the right people in the office, that's a lot to do with it too.
A:	Oh, yeah.
B:	A lot, uh, a lot of the politics will pass laws and stuff that the, um, general public wants,
B:	so they'll be revoted and all that.
A:	Well that's, that's, that, that's very true,
A:	but then again often times they don't, as well.
B:	Right.
A:	Often times they don't, uh,
B:	Right.
A:	they just go, you know,
A:	they're
A:	and they sort of don't care about anything and just want to go ahead an,
B:	Right
B:	they, sit on the fence,
B:	so. Well, oh, I talked about this the other day,
B:	they won't say yes and they won't say no to just certain issues just because they don't know what the public wants, or the public's split on it.
A:	That's true,
A:	that's true.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I often,
A:	I mean, that, that,
A:	like you say, that's another discussion,
A:	but I have had that discussion before as well.
A:	Where you weren't,
A:	I, I wonder about the politics of it all,
A:	so.
B:	Right,
B:	because most of it is politics, even in the courts.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Well even in the courts well, well, they're all appointed.
A:	I mean, that's even another issue, you know,
B:	Right.
A:	should, should, should judges be appointed, you know,
A:	and, or, or, um, often times I look at friends,
A:	we had, uh, a serial killer around here, who killed eleven women.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	now was that the, um, uh, green, oh, I don't know, some guy that was attacking women jogging?
B:	No.
A:	oh, and, and choking them,
A:	yeah,
A:	uh, his name is Arthur .
B:	Well did they have a T V movie about him?
A:	I'm not sure if they had one yet,
A:	but, I'm sure they will.
A:	Um, because he was, he was on some sort of news special though,
A:	he was, he was, uh, he killed,
A:	'cause he was just on trial like maybe a year ago.
A:	Um, he was strangling some of them.
B:	Were they jogging on a,
A:	Oh, no,
A:	usually they were prostitutes, actually.
B:	Oh, okay.
A:	Because he was, he was
A:	actually this is a very sad case.
A:	The man was let out,
A:	he was in prison for, um, sexually assaulting two children.
B:	Oh,
B:	see, that's what I mean,
B:	then they let them out
B:	and then they're able to do it again.
A:	Right,
A:	he, he,
A:	they let him out
A:	and then and then, he he wasn't allowed back in the town where he had done this
A:	so he came to our, he came to Rochester instead
A:	and they, they, they realized later he, he had killed about between eleven and twelve women, at least
A:	and,
B:	I think my sister is married to a guy from Rochester.
A:	Oh, really,
B:	Yeah.
A:	way up north here, huh.
B:	Yeah
B:	way up
B:	well, uh, I'm originally from Kentucky.
A:	Oh, okay.
A:	Still way up north, sort of, um.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I, I'm, I was up north too.
B:	But, uh, that's one of the reasons I think judges should be the ones to sentence people
B:	because they do know, you know, if you sentence them to three life times, then they probably won't get out on parole.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Won't get out, exactly,
A:	yeah,
A:	this, this, this man was sentenced to, I think, like three life times.
A:	But he was, you know, it was just horrible,
A:	because, um, his, his, his trial was, you know, was, it it was televised and this and that,
A:	and what they were pleading was, um, they were pleading insanity.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Well of course.
A:	And, and he should be just locked up for life.
B:	But they just need to do something with him.
B:	He needs to be annihilated.
A:	Right,
A:	but what, what struck me is, you know, they had a psychiatrist testifying for hours and hours
A:	and by the end, I realized that maybe it would have been better if they had, it wouldn't have been a jury of his peers, but if they had a jury of psychiatrists instead, to sort look at it, you know.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I mean, I don't think it's feasible,
A:	but, it would be an interesting thought if you're,
B:	Well, it's supposed to be a jury of your peers,
A:	No,
A:	or, right,
A:	right,
A:	exactly,
A:	but give them a bunch of psychotics but at least have a, have a, have a bunch of psychiatrists, you know, just to look at him and decide from then.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I mean, they would ,
B:	Did they have a trial by jury for him.
A:	What's
A:	yeah
A:	they did.
B:	Huh, well.
A:	They had a regular trial by jury for him,
A:	and, and,
A:	Yes,
A:	what, what major changes have affected your life?
B:	Well, I think that, uh, women, women working is the one that really affects me most strongly right now.
B:	Um,
A:	You mean yourself, or women in general?
B:	Well, women in general, and, and also myself.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But, um, it used to not really make a difference to me, um,
B:	or at least I didn't think so.
B:	But my mother worked,
B:	and I kind of now wish that, that she hadn't. That, um, that she had, um, stayed home,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and right now I'm kind of stuck because I'd like to have children,
B:	but I'm not ready to do that because when I do have children I want to stay home.
B:	So I'm having to, uh, try to figure out a way to be able to do that.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, in, in our society right now that's really something that's, that's, um, not respected,
B:	and it's not, it's not, um, it's not easy to do at all.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I mean, there's a great deal of sacrifice that has to be made on the part of a family if the, if the wife is going to actually be a mother.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
A:	That's interesting,
A:	because that relates to the thing that, that strikes me the most,
A:	and I'm sure you've, you've labelled the cause, because what strikes me the most in the changes in society is the way kids behave.
A:	And,
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	I think that that they have to be related.
A:	That's right,
A:	that's right.
A:	And you know, I mean I was thinking it just, you know,
A:	my complaint would, would be, um, that I think that, you know, the kids in the neighborhood run wild,
A:	and they, they destroy property,
A:	and they, you know, steal each other's toys and stuff
A:	and there's just no respect for, for people or property,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and I guess, you know, when you stop to think of it, these kids have probably been deprived of a lot of attention that they've needed all their lives.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	I think that that's probably true.
A:	Scary,
B:	I just wish there was a way,
B:	I know that in, in, you know, in Sweden, what they have there, it's really their medical plan, but it also deals with this subject, because if a woman, uh, is working and I think even if she's not, and has a child, the government subsidizes her to stay home and raise the child.
A:	Uh-huh
A:	But for how many years?
B:	I don't, I don't know.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Until it, um,
B:	I'm sure until at least school age, and maybe longer.
A:	Oh, that's great.
B:	What this does is, it allows the government to subsidize her to be the mother of her children rather than to subsidize child care to raise the child for her.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Right.
B:	And I think that that's a real, a much, much more viable solution, really.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	No,
A:	I agree, a hundred percent, a hundred percent.
A:	I guess I was lucky, because I was teaching,
A:	and so I was able to just go to a class and teach when my son was little,
A:	and so I'd be gone, you know, an hour and fifteen minutes or something at a stretch.
B:	Oh yeah,
B:	that's great.
A:	And, then, yeah,
A:	very soon he was old enough to just go and sort of stay in my office
A:	and you know, nobody seemed to have a big problem with that
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	So. That's an interesting issue though.
A:	Um, yeah
B:	Um, goodness,
B:	what else?
B:	Oh, there's been so many,
B:	how do you just,
A:	Right,
A:	I've,
A:	actually another one that I, a question I would have is,
A:	I guess I'm being, you know, beyond the age of thinking of this, this problem.
A:	I had an argument recently with my boss,
A:	I think it was, about the need for women to work.
A:	But I think you put your finger on it, when you said that they're not respected if they don't work, because it seems to me that a lot of people I know, women I know, are doing very menial jobs in a certain sense, certainly financially
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and, I mean, when I see the amount of clothes that they buy and, and how much it costs them to buy fast food on the way home I'm sure that they're not making quote making money for the family on this
B:	Yeah,
B:	uh-huh.
B:	Yeah,
B:	really.
A:	and, and probably you're right.
B:	I don't see how they could be, especially not if they have to pay for child care.
A:	Well, no,
A:	even families that don't have child care,
A:	I mean, you know, when I think of this one friend who makes probably twenty thousand dollars a year, and I'm sure she spends at least that in clothes, plus, you know, fast food every day, and out to lunch every day,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and,
B:	You're probably right.
B:	If she sat down and looked at it she'd be like, God, what am I doing this for, you know.
A:	Exactly,
A:	and I mean, you know, even though they don't have children, they, they have relatives
A:	and, you know, the husband would certainly like a lot more attention,
A:	and, and she wouldn't have to hire somebody to clean the house, and do the gardening
A:	And, so, I, I guess you're right.
A:	It's, it's
A:	our society demands women to work if they're going to be respected.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Really sad
B:	Yeah,
B:	religion has changed, too.
A:	Oh, that's true.
B:	Um, uh, some people now it seems like are turning back toward actually trying to find out what they're in it for, instead of just, um,
B:	it, it's, it,
B:	some places still it seems like it's a social club.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	You know, it's just a place to go, to visit, uh, to wear your nice clothes, and, and to sit around and talk,
B:	but, um, I think a lot of people are really, you know, searching now to find, find out who they are, and who God is, and what all that really means now.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	so that might be a positive change in society.
B:	Yeah,
B:	oh, it's, it's, um, it's beginning, I think.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
A:	I guess I haven't seen that as much in this area, although every now and then you hear about it.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh, but among, you know, people I know, I don't see a great, you know,
A:	there are those people who have, have had serious questions all along, and, you know, are sort of pursuing it
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but, um, the churches here are growing, leaps and bounds,
A:	and I thought it was more because of the, the very transient nature of the area and that people were going basically just as you said, as a social to meet people, and that,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but, um, it's hard to judge,
A:	and there are a lot of things changing, I suppose,
B:	Yeah.
A:	Just, you know, the whole, the whole environment, I find um, sort of, you know,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I wonder with, with all our chemicals and, and that and, and the foods we eat,
A:	and, you know, young people that I know are getting very serious diseases
A:	and,
B:	Oh, yes.
B:	Well, I guess that's always happened.
A:	Probably.
B:	Maybe not as much as now
B:	but,
A:	Well, it's just,
A:	it's, maybe it's more unusual now, when, you know, somebody quite young gets certain kinds of cancer,
A:	and in the past, maybe the same percentage got them,
A:	but we didn't know it,
A:	or, I don't know.
A:	Well, I guess we've sort of run dry a little bit.
B:	Okay
A:	It was nice talking to you.
B:	Nice to talk to you.
A:	Okay.
A:	Bye-bye.
B:	Bye-bye.
A:	Well, do you watch much T V?
B:	Well, I watch in the evening with my kids
A:	Your kids.
A:	How many kids do you have?
B:	I have four children.
A:	Oh, goodness.
A:	I have got two.
B:	Well,
A:	That is about all I want
B:	Yeah,
B:	it keeps you busy, doesn't it?
A:	Yeah,
A:	they do.
A:	They are still babies.
B:	Uh, my children like to watch SESAME STREET.
B:	I watch with them every once in a while,
B:	but that is not my favorite programs.
A:	Oh, well. We have only get two channels.
A:	We do not have cable.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	But I am not crazy about T V much.
A:	It just,
A:	Now SESAME STREET is a good program because, uh,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I do have that on videotape,
A:	and I will let him watch that every once in a while.
A:	And he has learned to count to twenty from that.
A:	So,
B:	Yeah.
B:	It can be very educational.
A:	Yeah.
B:	There are shows that I like.
B:	Uh, I like good family shows, uh, though.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh, I let my kids watch things like LITTLE HOUSE ON THE PRAIRIE.
A:	Okay.
B:	And the COSBY SHOW is, uh, is, uh, kind of unrealistic as a family unless you live in upper class and have money.
A:	Right.
B:	I think that sometimes the things they show on there though, uh,
B:	the problems that their kids get into, are, are good to, uh, show that they do have problems anyway.
A:	Right.
B:	Uh,
A:	But they also have a lot easier time disciplining their kids than real people do.
B:	Yeah.
B:	I mean, like I said, real life is not that easy.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And, uh, I watch a show that I like for entertainment.
B:	Uh, it is called the QUANTUM LEAP.
A:	Oh, I love QUANTUM LEAP.
B:	I watch that show every time,
B:	and, uh,
B:	I, I like, uh, how the, how he has to help with the people that he, that he becomes. Uh, because it is not a show that he just becomes these people and then he lives there for a while and then he is gone.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	He has to do something positive to help them.
A:	Right.
B:	So I,
A:	He always got to change history is what it is.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Usually, yeah.
B:	It,
A:	That it is so good.
A:	I was glad when they put that back on this channel, because like I said, we only get two channels because we do not get cable.
B:	Me too,
B:	me too.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And still my little boy, he watches videotapes.
A:	He won't, um,
A:	this is terrible,
A:	I do not like him sitting in front of the T V all day.
B:	No,
B:	that is not terrible.
A:	Well, It,
B:	I do not think that is terrible at all.
A:	but it is a not really a good baby sitter
B:	Well,
A:	It is really not.
A:	He needs to get outside and play.
A:	And he is four years old,
A:	and he just does not like to go out there by himself.
A:	And I will let him watch the T V when I am wanting to get my house work done.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	But other than that, I do not like him glued to the T V all the time.
B:	Well, I do not think it is, it is healthy all the time either.
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	Uh, and my kids like to, to go play with their friends,
B:	and so I guess I do not mind too much when they do watch a little bit.
B:	Now I,
B:	there are shows,
B:	I do not have cable either.
B:	And there are shows that I really put my foot down on.
B:	If there starts to be a lot of violence, I do not go for that.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I will not let them watch that.
B:	If there is a lot of language or,
A:	Well, we made the
A:	Right.
A:	We made the mistake of getting ROBOCOP.
A:	And that is one of the worst, oh,
A:	I do not let him watch it anymore. Because the, the pieces, like especially where they kill somebody, it is just not good.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I mean it is just real violent.
A:	I mean,
B:	Well, it, you know,
B:	today I watched,
B:	and it is like they show bloody, you know, things,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and they show it in slow motion.
B:	And, and everything like that.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And before, in a western or something, in the, in the olden days,
A:	You would see somebody get shot,
A:	they would just fall down.
B:	Yeah.
B:	And they were gone
A:	Yeah.
B:	And, and it was not, uh,
A:	So graphic.
A:	Today it is, it is really graphic.
A:	They try to make it too realistic.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And,
B:	Too much realism I think, sometimes.
A:	Yeah.
B:	I don't,
A:	Now he is watching HONEY, I SHRUNK THE KIDS right now.
B:	Oh, that is a fun show.
A:	It is, it is cute.
B:	Oh, I really like that one.
A:	And that,
A:	little ROGER RABBIT on before that.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	That is cute.
A:	And they have got THE HE MAN, uh, MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE, the movie.
B:	The cartoon or the,
B:	Oh, uh-huh.
A:	That is a real cute show.
B:	That has good moral values too.
A:	HE MAN?
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Well, uh, I think, uh,
A:	Yeah,
A:	good versus evil.
B:	Yeah,
A:	Huh.
B:	yeah.
A:	Oh, well, it sounds like we have the same tapes for our kids anyway.
B:	Yeah.
B:	At least we have the same ideas.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Language too.
B:	language and violence and sexual, you know, things.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I, I get kind of, uh, saying, "I am sorry kids, this is",
A:	Yeah.
B:	And I, I think it is important that I see what they are watching.
B:	If,
A:	Yeah.
A:	They do have like those parental control things on the, uh, remote controls. You know, where you can block out what channels you do not want them to watch.
B:	You mean in cable?
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Oh, I do not know, because I do not have that.
B:	But,
A:	Well, my, my, uh, stepfather and them have, my stepfather, my father-in-law, and them have that.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, they do not have any kids,
A:	but they was told how to use that.
A:	But still, when the kids get older, they learn how to break through that parental control.
B:	Oh, do they?
A:	Huh.
B:	They are too smart.
A:	I think alls you have to do is push a couple buttons.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	So, it is, it is, I am hoping that he will grow up not really caring much for those movies because, now we have got a lot of western tapes.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	JOSEY WELLS, now he loves to watch JOSEY WELLS.
B:	Well, I think that is a good show too.
A:	Yeah,
B:	Yeah.
A:	Clint Eastwood.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And like THE MAN FROM SNOWY RIVER, we have, oh,
A:	my husband likes westerns.
A:	And he also likes STAR TREK.
A:	Now STAR TREK is good movies, good shows.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	The, uh, series?
A:	We have got a lot of those.
B:	Uh, I think not even the old one but the new one too.
B:	I like both of those
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	THE NEXT GENERATION?
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
A:	My little boy is crazy about Captain Kirk.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And my little girl has Mister Spock's ears
B:	Oh,
A:	I told my husband he cursed my kids.
B:	Yeah.
A:	They were both born with pointy ears.
B:	Oh, well.
A:	Not real pointy.
A:	My little boy grew out of it.
B:	Oh, that is not a problem anyway,
A:	No.
B:	but it is fun to, you know, seeing the show anyway.
B:	Uh, now I like, uh, everything oh,
B:	no,
B:	not Michael Douglas, um, oh,
B:	I can't think of his name.
A:	Kirk Douglas?
B:	No,
B:	the, the man, right now who is having, uh, who has done, uh, BONANZA, and then he did LITTLE HOUSE ON THE PRAIRIE.
A:	Oh, Michael Landon.
B:	Michael Landon.
B:	There you go, Michael Landon.
A:	Oh, now there,
B:	I have always liked and thought he did good shows.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Like HIGHWAY TO HEAVEN?
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	to Here are some cookies, Kyle.
A:	talking to Speaker Yeah,
A:	I liked HIGHWAY TO HEAVEN,
A:	and I, and I thought that was kind of neat though.
A:	But I loved LITTLE HOUSE ON THE PRAIRIE, especially when Melissa Gilbert grew up.
B:	Yeah,
A:	She was kind of like my idol when I was growing up. Because I am twenty-seven,
B:	yeah.
A:	so it is, you know,
A:	she is about the same age as I am.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I wanted to be just like her, because she is so cute.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I,
B:	and I liked that show because it, it portrayed, I thought, really well, uh, pioneer kind of days. You know,
A:	Yeah
A:	and,
A:	well,
B:	but,
A:	I liked it,
B:	Yeah.
A:	but there,
A:	that is about the only, uh, show I have seen where every time they sit down at the table, they pray before they eat.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And I thought that was real neat. Because there is not a lot of shows that do that.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And, uh, they have this little cartoon that is on Sunday mornings with, Jot.
B:	Now what is that?
A:	I remember him in school,
A:	but I do not,
A:	it is just this little dot with arms and feet and little eyes,
A:	and his parents are there.
A:	They have it like before one of the church things, uh, you know, church that comes on?
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And it is a just this little dot.
A:	And he will go out and get himself into trouble and come home,
A:	and the parents will tell him that there is a verse in the Bible that will help him with that,
A:	and, It is just,
B:	Oh, I have not seen that.
A:	Well, it is,
A:	usually we go to church on Sundays.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	But we will miss every once in a while.
A:	And I will let Kyle watch that,
A:	and he just,
A:	well, I even like Jot.
A:	I mean I,
A:	it is funny.
B:	What channel is it on?
A:	It is on channel,
A:	well, let us see.
A:	You are in Plano?
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh, it is twelve or ten down here.
B:	Well, I will look and, and see.
B:	Yeah,
B:	we go to church on Sunday.
B:	About one o'clock is when our meetings start.
B:	And, uh,
A:	Oh, well, this is of the mornings.
B:	It is in the morning?
A:	Uh, around nine or ten I think.
A:	It is before one of the, I think it is before the First Baptist in Sherman airs.
B:	Okay.
A:	I think that is the one that it, uh, comes on before.
B:	Well, we'll look.
A:	It is real cute.
A:	You know what?
A:	He is bouncing around,
A:	and his name is Jot,
A:	and then he has got a friend named Cat.
A:	And I think the dog is the only one that is not a, a dot
A:	But it is real cute.
A:	And like I say, they, they teach him stuff from the BIBLE.
A:	And I think it is just a real cute show.
A:	I am trying to get my little boy into reading, uh, like church books and things.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	We have got like NOAH'S ARK and, oh, LORD IS MY
A:	We have got about eight or twelve books for him, just little Bible stories.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And
A:	he is, he is getting to where he likes them.
B:	Yeah.
A:	We got him a little Jesus doll, uh, about a year ago,
A:	and he has always kept that.
A:	He likes it
B:	Well, I really like,
B:	now we get channel fifty-five, although we do not have cable, we do get channel fifty-five.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And that is a, uh,
B:	like, a, a song,
B:	they sing songs on there
B:	but they're, uh, worship through music kind of things.
B:	But they are up to date, uh,
B:	and some of them are like, uh, videos like music videos, that go along with the songs about church and Jesus.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, And I,
A:	So it's a, a Christian songs?
B:	Yeah.
A:	Oh, that sounds fun.
B:	The
B:	it's called the Christian music station or something like that.
A:	That's something.
A:	Well,
B:	And, uh, I really like that.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Uh, I turn that on, on Sunday mornings.
B:	And I do not, you know,
B:	and so my kids do not, uh, have an
A:	Okay
A:	wow, I don't know what that was.
B:	What was that?
A:	I don't know
B:	And, uh, to, uh, the Brazos River near Dinosaur Valley State Park.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Oh, yes.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh, we have not camped in any of those places,
A:	in fact it has been a number of years since we have camped,
A:	but we used to go to Tyler State Park and, uh, Daingerfield
A:	and in Texas that is where we camp basically. Uh,
B:	What are they like?
A:	They are very nice.
A:	Tyler is really, really a neat place to camp.
A:	It has a nice little lake
A:	and it has some really wonderful, uh, sights that are in the wooded areas.
A:	Uh, the facilities are quite nice
A:	and our children liked, liked it quite well.
A:	and you know they,
A:	we felt real safe with their being able to do what they would like to do there in the area.
A:	And, uh, it was just, it was just a really nice place to camp.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh, now Daingerfield is,
A:	let's see,
A:	I think that's a little bit more east, further east, and and maybe south, if I am remembering where that is.
A:	No,
A:	I think it's a little bit further north, when I think about it.
A:	At any rate it was, it was very nice as well.
A:	But Tyler, we sort of got spoiled with, I think.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	But, uh, we had lived in Michigan before we came here and, uh, had done a lot of camping in Michigan,
A:	I think the upper peninsula of Michigan, especially,
A:	and then also, we had done some camping in Colorado, in the mountains,
A:	so, uh, my parents were real avid campers
A:	and my husband's parents were really avid campers as well.
A:	So I guess we just kind of came by it naturally
B:	Yeah.
A:	Do you have a large tent
A:	or,
B:	Yeah,
B:	it was a nine by twelve.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And how many does it sleep, uh, comfortably?
B:	Well, there, well supposedly,
B:	they always say it sleeps more than it does.
A:	Right
B:	But they,
B:	it would have slept three adults anyway.
A:	Yeah,
B:	Yeah.
A:	Well, sort of early on especially as our children got a little bit bigger, uh, we invested in some stacking, uh, cots, you know, that were like bunk, bunk beds,
A:	but they were cots, fold up cots.
A:	That really gave us a lot more space, um, floor space and, so, you did not have to be constantly getting things off the floor in order to walk around
A:	and,
B:	Right.
A:	uh, gave us a place to stack things during the day
A:	so that was real nice.
A:	But, uh, we, uh,
A:	like, my in-laws also had a camper, or, uh, a pop up tent, you know, one of those trailer tops
A:	and those are really nice too.
A:	A little more, uh, luxurious, so to speak, but not much
B:	do they have a kitchen in them?
A:	Yes,
A:	uh-huh.
A:	It's really nice,
A:	in fact, it even had, had a little refrigerator, uh, and the whole business.
A:	It was quite nice in that respect.
A:	Uh, and everything was very convenient
A:	and you did not have to, to be hauling things out of your, the trunk of you car,
B:	Trunk of your car all time, right.
A:	and that was nice.
A:	So, uh, do you have plans for, for any other camping trips in the near future?
B:	Uh, maybe, uh, maybe back to Caddo, or, Uh, Purdis Creek.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Right.
B:	Or, I like Bob Sandlin too,
B:	it's a new park.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And there is, uh, not really camping,
B:	but, uh,
B:	what is it called, Cedar Hill.
A:	Right.
B:	Lake Joe Pool.
A:	Oh, yes.
B:	And sometime, I like to go to Eisenhower up on Lake Texoma.
A:	Yes,
A:	yes,
A:	I have been in that area.
A:	That is a really pretty state park.
A:	Uh, just,
A:	we did not camp there,
A:	but we drove through it just one time when we were in that area
A:	and it's real lovely.
A:	It's close to the lake and close to,
A:	I think it's close to the dam up there
A:	so it's, it's really quite pretty.
A:	Uh, are you, um,
A:	let's see what was,
A:	I was going to ask you something else.
A:	Oh, do you have a favorite among all those that you have been to?
B:	Oh, from those three,
B:	just, just, uh, from when I have been an adult, I like Caddo the best.
A:	Yeah,
A:	uh-huh.
A:	Uh, is it true that Caddo Lake is the only natural lake in the State of Texas?
B:	Yeah,
B:	that's right.
A:	I, I would,
A:	I have never been there
A:	and I would love to see what it looks like
B:	It's not, it's not very deep.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And they did build a dam on it,
B:	but it was there before they built the dam.
B:	It has been there for a hundred years.
A:	Oh, I see.
B:	Apparently, an earth quake caused it.
A:	How interesting.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I guess I never heard the history of that.
A:	Huh, well, that might be some place where my husband and I can go.
A:	We are talking about starting camping again in the fall.
A:	Um, our children are both grown
A:	and, and so, it's just pretty much the two of us who do things.
A:	And so, uh, we thought we might take some weekend trips and maybe that would be a good place to, to go to and see what it looks like.
B:	I'm, uh, member of the American Meteorological Society,
B:	and
A:	Are you
A:	you didn't work at T I?
B:	Yeah,
B:	I do.
A:	Oh, okay.
B:	But I'm, uh, I, I did that in my .
A:	Where do you work in research,
A:	or
B:	No, I'm a planner, a production planner.
A:	Oh, okay.
B:	But I, I, I'm in the active reserves as a weatherman,
B:	so.
A:	Oh, okay,
A:	yeah.
B:	Uh, I, I keep up from time to time,
B:	but what the, the argument is that, uh, that, uh, maybe there isn't global warming and maybe there is.
B:	But, um, if there is, uh, we probably could do something about it now,
A:	Yeah.
B:	and if there isn't, if there isn't and we do some the right things, I think,
B:	how do you feel about, about all this smog and stuff on cars.
A:	Uh, well, I'm kind of a car buff myself,
A:	I was going to ask you another question,
A:	but, uh, I'll do that in a minute.
A:	I, I think that the changing, you know, from leaded fuel was a tremendous advantage, you know, not using ...
B:	Well, do you have an older car?
A:	No,
A:	no,
A:	no.
B:	I, I have been working on an older car
B:	but it
B:	yeah.
A:	Really?
A:	Oh, I'm a car buff too,
A:	we ought to talk about that one day, uh, uh,
B:	Well, I'm restoring one.
A:	I think you can use the, you can use high, you know, the ninety-two percent, uh, ninety-two octane I don't think you'll have any trouble.
B:	I'm not having any problem it's a seventy.
A:	Oh, yeah.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And the.
A:	No,
A:	I, I think, uh,
A:	I, uh, work on my own cars
A:	and, uh, I don't think that's a problem.
A:	I thought,
A:	I'm saying, I was glad to get rid of leaded gasoline,
A:	'n.
B:	But did you have another
B:	you said you had another
A:	Uh, oh,
A:	the same thing about the war, uh, or related to the war on,
A:	I was watching C N N
A:	and I cannot remember what station it was,
A:	what,
A:	did you see the advertisements, uh, where they talked about nuclear war, what that would have been like in changing the atmosphere,
A:	it is so scary that I hope that every one of the government officials saw that because it was just total disaster, you know.
B:	Uh,
A:	Did you see any of those, uh, I,
A:	it was,
B:	No,
B:	I didn't see that , that,
B:	I know that the, uh,
B:	that's ...
A:	It must have been channel thirteen,
A:	I don't recall,
A:	although, I thought it was on C N N, oh,
A:	I,
B:	Well, that,
B:	they called nuclear winner
B:	and, and I suppose that's, that's the ultimate, uh, pollution problem.
A:	It was a somewhat of a commercial because it I saw it regularly
A:	and it showed that
A:	and it was really devastating
A:	and, it would, uh ,
B:	Well it,
A:	how much ash would fall
A:	and, and how it would essentially literally destroy the world, you know.
B:	Well, the Chernobyl accident, uh,
B:	actually, um, because the circulation budget as high as it went, uh, covered, uh, a fairly remarkable amount
B:	they did some tracers
B:	and they
B:	I, I think it's drawn in, uh,
B:	I think, gets in there
B:	I can't think of the other trace,
B:	but I saw a, a presentation on, on that
B:	and they,
B:	it went quite a long ways but I, I, I guess I can be a little sympathetic
B:	but, you know, there's some argument that in, in, in the blue grass of Kentucky that the Smoky Mountains that that's the, uh, the pine trees giving off pollution
B:	and,
A:	Oh, really,
A:	yeah,
A:	there, there's probably a lot of natural things, uh,
B:	But the,
B:	but when you when you get up in the morning in, in Dallas and, and see all that haze from west Texas, is that, is that pollution?
A:	Yeah.
A:	Uh, it,
A:	I guess it's got to be really,
A:	I don't know,
A:	I don't know if it's air pollution it's, uh, it's dust pollution whether it's natural or not I don't know.
B:	Well, it,
B:	that's the thing is that I think, I think Dallas really does have a problem in this,
B:	the idea if we could get some cleaner fuel, burning fuel,
B:	the problem is, is it's like Los Angeles.
B:	People don't, people don't want to use mass transit,
B:	so.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Oh, yeah,
A:	well, I live in Arlington
A:	and there, there, there are no buses.
A:	I mean, there, there is,
A:	the only school bus, the only buses you see are school buses,
A:	so.
B:	But who wants to, who wants to, um, ride a bus?
A:	Well, I know it, it's, uh, you know,
A:	the car is,
A:	we have this big romance with the car,
A:	but, uh, I think people are, would be interested if you had one, I mean.
B:	Well, my boss drives forty miles one way each day.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And one of the guys that works with me drives forty-five miles.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And, and they don't think it,
B:	well, I guess they do think something of it
B:	but, um, not even to, you know,
B:	you consider how much, um,
B:	but then you get into all these issues of, of whether it, it's the types of pollution and what it's doing to your lungs
B:	and, are we going to die of, of respiratory,
A:	Yeah.
B:	so, we all move out of the, out of downtown
B:	so we get away from the, the smog.
B:	My, my wife grew up in southern California
B:	and they moved out to the valley before Los Angeles, uh, when the valley was clean.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And now the valley is not
B:	and so people move out one more valley and, General Motors apparently has one that they're, they're testing,
A:	Well, you said you were car buff, uh,
A:	I think that, uh, all of us could use one electric car right now, I mean, today, because I think, uh, you said people drive forty miles and fifty whatever,
A:	yeah,
A:	when you go to trips and all you can have one gasoline car
A:	but I think we all could, in a family, say, have an electric car where my, one of my daughters or my wife, my wife, she could use one now if they had one, you know, because they, she don't even, she doesn't put fifty miles a day on the car.
B:	I think it's, no, it's alcohol vehicles that they're testing .
A:	No,
A:	no,
A:	you're right.
A:	I, I have seen them
A:	but, uh, they have a battery car.
B:	But they suppose,
A:	Uh, I went to the auto show this past week
A:	and they did not endorse,
A:	now that I think of it,
A:	and I was so interested in the auto show I didn't think to ask anybody,
A:	there were no electric cars.
A:	I was surprised
A:	but now that you just mentioned that.
B:	Huh.
B:	Well, the ROAD and TRACK was talking about that this, apparently General Motors has some, uh,
B:	they apparently think they're close.
A:	Yeah.
A:	I, I think, uh, there could be a lot of
A:	I
A:	people close this is really,
A:	we're, we're nine years away or less, I guess, from the next century and I think,
B:	Well, there's still a lot of research,
B:	I was over in, in the research lab a couple, I guess, it's been about a month ago
B:	and saw this, research it was a little light that says solar, solar powered research.
A:	Yeah,
A:	they've got a, they've got a area over in, the S M building too which is, uh,
A:	but it's a solar, uh,
A:	it's for, uh,
A:	gots some money from a power company
A:	and it's probably more generating power for, you know, uh, electricity, a hundred and twenty volt or whatever.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Well, do you work in that C building?
A:	No,
A:	I'm actually in the south building
A:	but, uh,
B:	Oh, I'm at ,
A:	I was, uh, I'm the facility
A:	so I've been in all, most of the buildings anyway.
B:	Oh, well, I'm in, I'm in the C building,
B:	been there for, all my life.
A:	Oh, yeah,
A:	well, the, the solar area is right, right around from the auditorium now.
A:	And it,
A:	they've got several different, uh, areas where they're called solar lab.
A:	It's, right there on the first floor you look, walk by there.
B:	Huh.
B:	Well, that's been a
B:	I know the focal plain array is they were taking space to, a long time.
A:	Yeah,
A:	but the solar project, you know, T I's been into it for years,
A:	and I guess it's just not, uh, economical yet because of the other fuels.
B:	Well, the problem is that gas at a dollar a gallon, you know, who wants to,
B:	yeah,
B:	I mean, we want to not pollute,
B:	but, uh, at a dollar a gallon, uh, it's hard to beat, the amount of energy you get from, uh,
A:	Yeah.
A:	I've seen some.
A:	I think
A:	then again I'm surprised now I didn't think they'd asked anybody when I was in the auto show.
A:	There was nothing, uh,
A:	and there was no, place for air pollution or companies or anyone there.
A:	It was just pure automobiles.
B:	Well, I thought I saw an ad for Volkswagen that had an alcohol,
A:	There?
B:	they had one with spots on it and something.
A:	Huh.
B:	I didn't go
B:	but
B:	it was showing they,
B:	I mean, uh,
A:	I didn't see,
B:	an article.
A:	did you go?
B:	No,
B:	I didn't,
A:	Oh.
B:	I didn't go,
B:	so. I
A:	Uh, I was, uh, quite impressed with all the cars, you know,
A:	the engines are so much smaller now and everything
A:	and they're, they all have brand new engines, even General Motors, uh,
A:	very few
A:	only the Caprice and them and the Cadillac had eight, uh, the old V-eights,
A:	they're all brand new engines,
A:	uh, of course, they're burning gasoline, of course.
B:	They've done a lot.
A:	Yeah,
A:	and, uh, whether, you know,
A:	that's one way, you know, uh, uh,
A:	on air pollution I, I, I don't know if the automobiles are the biggest contributor or not really.
A:	They've got catalytic converters,
A:	everyone seem to have gone to that, whether they last, uh, and do a good job
A:	and now that they, the inspection systems are analyzing that, uh,
A:	well, what do you think if you're in that, you know, if you're concerned about that,
B:	Well,
A:	I mean, if you're, you're, you're knowledgeable on that.
B:	Well, they, uh,
B:	it's interesting though because my cars are older
B:	and so I didn't have to,
B:	if you live in Dallas County you have to have your, have to have it checked
B:	and it's ,
B:	I had a friend with a Fiero that, uh, they tried and tried and tried and had all kinds of terrible getting that pinned
B:	and, so, apparently ...
A:	Okay.
B:	Well, I just got back from taking my little girl to her Brownie meeting,
B:	and then we had this whole can, uh, a bag filled full of cans
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and they've been recycling at their school.
B:	Well, she wanted me to just wait and let her dump them off tomorrow.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But they were filled with beer cans
A:	Hm
B:	and I hated to take a big old sack, I mean, one time, I mean, like a lawn bag full of them.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Like I,
B:	no,
B:	we'll just taking them up there and put them in the bins anyway.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	They had tickets at their school that they recycle either newspapers or cans,
B:	and I think that's all.
A:	Oh.
B:	speaking in the Okay,
B:	and they're taking the money that they earn to plant trees.
A:	Oh, that's a good idea.
B:	Yeah,
B:	and they've got their bins that stay there,
B:	and they've decorated real cute, you know, with a bunch of big old flowers and stuff.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So they're getting into it.
B:	I don't know what they get for the tickets, though.
B:	to someone off the What do you get for the tickets, if you bring stuff?
B:	Oh, the class that gets the most tickets gets a party
A:	Oh, that's good.
B:	It's not bad, yeah.
A:	Um, I know,
A:	we to someone off um, we, we are kind of getting into recycling now.
A:	I'm in college,
A:	and I live in a dorm,
A:	and we recycle paper.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And I know that there's a glass plant up here,
A:	and they recycle glass,
A:	and, you know, we recycle old aluminum cans and all that kind of stuff.
B:	So in each of the dorms you have a place for that?
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	That's really good.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
A:	And then when our dorm,
A:	whenever our bins are all filled up, we take them and turn them in,
A:	and then we get money for that.
B:	For the dorm,
B:	and who decides what you do with it?
A:	Yeah,
A:	we just put, you know, we just keep it with the dorm.
B:	And what do they do with it?
A:	Well, we buy things for the dorm, whatever the dorm needs, you know.
A:	Like we have access to a microwave and an oven if we want to cook things,
A:	and then we buy, like, cooking equipment and stuff.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Or we play games, like board games.
A:	We buy board games.
A:	You know, it's just different things, whatever, you know,
A:	we vote on it,
A:	and whatever the dorm would want, that's what we buy.
B:	Well, I graduated from college in nineteen seventy-two,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And we were just, um, not aware that this was a problem, that we ever would need to recycle.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Of course, you just threw it away.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So, a little different.
B:	And I wanted to do this thing that you can get through Target, to recycle.
B:	I had my school do it,
B:	but my principal said since we're doing this thing called Operation Desert Shield, we're sending letters to all these servicemen and making video tapes and all that
A:	Yeah.
B:	The whole school, you know,
B:	it was just this big project,
B:	she didn't want to get into that.
B:	And I could do it in the center,
B:	and I just never got around to it.
B:	But, it's like a club,
B:	you know about that?
A:	No.
B:	A little boy that had died of leukemia, I think,
B:	and he had started this, um, save the environment club.
A:	Oh.
B:	And his mother is carrying this on.
B:	And you can get the information to set it up, you know and join,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	you don't have to join it as a group or anything, I don't guess.
A:	Oh, that'd be
B:	But you could start your own anyway.
B:	Get a pamphlet,
A:	Is that what this target is,
A:	what you're,
B:	Do you all have Target stores up there?
A:	No.
B:	No.
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	That's a department store.
A:	Oh.
B:	Kind of like K Mart except it's a little better than what K Mart sells, I think.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Oh.
A:	I would like,
A:	let's start up a Target.
A:	No.
A:	Um, I don't really know any other recycling that they do.
B:	So, you're not you're not having it picked up at your houses or anything.
A:	No.
A:	No,
A:	huh-uh.
A:	We have to take it to a recycling place.
B:	Huh.
B:	Now in some of the towns around us, they're already picking up the newspapers.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Well, they're doing that here, too, now that I think about it voice in Once every so many weeks,
B:	and you have to pull out all the slicks,
B:	and you have to wrap them up with string.
A:	Oh.
B:	And, I think that's all they're picking up.
B:	But you know, like in Minnesota, they've got their bins where you put plastics and your bottles.
A:	Oh, I didn't know that.
B:	Yeah,
B:	because my brother-in-law lives in Minnesota,
B:	and they're are just nice, plastic bins,
B:	and they pick them up.
A:	Um. I never heard of that in
B:	Do you all have can banks?
A:	Um, not that I know of
B:	No?
A:	No.
B:	in I
B:	a big old bin,
B:	and you just feed your cans slowly into the slot,
B:	and your money comes out, you know, every once in a while, for however much poundage you've got.
B:	And if you keep feeding it until the light goes off. And you get instant cash.
A:	Oh my gosh.
B:	But they had one that I was putting my stuff in,
B:	and I went to take some today,
B:	and it was gone.
A:	Um.
B:	I don't know.
B:	But I located another one today on the way to work.
A:	Yeah,
A:	uh, we have places where we go
A:	and we, what we do is we unload our cans.
A:	It's like a conveyor belt,
A:	and the belt separates the aluminum ones from the steel ones because it has a magnet on it.
A:	And then they weigh, uh, your aluminum cans,
A:	and then you get money for your aluminum cans.
B:	But they don't give you for the other.
A:	No.
A:	But now they're going to start giving us money for the other ones, too.
A:	Before, they didn't.
A:	But I know they're going to start now.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Well they're certain places, you know, where down there you can take your leaded cans.
B:	But I don't know where they are.
B:	They publish it in the newspaper if you wanted to get into it.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I don't know.
B:	I'm trying
B:	but, I just can't recycle everything.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah
B:	I'm not that dedicated.
A:	Yeah.
B:	But.
A:	Well, that's all I really know about recycling.
B:	Me, too.
B:	If they would.
B:	Oh, I know, we're saving our grocery bags now.
A:	Oh really?
B:	Yeah,
B:	they're taking those up.
B:	You can take them to the stores
B:	Um, like Kroger's doing it.
B:	And I think Skaggs.
B:	Do you have those up there?
A:	We have Kroger, but not a Skaggs.
B:	And we,
B:	they're taking our milk cartons and our plastic coke bottles there, too.
A:	Oh.
B:	So.
A:	Uh.
B:	That's pretty good isn't it.
A:	You guys are getting into it more than we are.
B:	It sounds like it,
B:	you'd think you would be.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Huh-uh,
A:	I've never seen any, you know, places that do.
A:	I know, um, we reuse our grocery bags now.
A:	We take them back, you know, and use the ones that we have.
A:	You can like,
A:	if you have grocery bags you can take them and use them instead of getting new ones.
B:	You mean where you sack your own groceries.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah,
A:	but we don't have any place that collects the grocery bags.
B:	Huh.
B:	And I don't want to go with those canvas bags right now, I'm sorry.
B:	I'm not that European
B:	But you know, they do that like,
B:	I went to Europe, nineteen seventy-three.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, you know, they go all the time.
B:	It's like they would go almost every day to the store.
B:	And they had their little bags way back then, and fill it up.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And they had this little bitty old teeny refrigerators.
A:	Oh, my.
B:	That's why.
B:	They couldn't put anything in it hardly.
B:	But,
A:	Uh.
B:	Well, what are you going to do when you get out of college?
A:	I'm a finance major.
B:	Well, that's why I did what I did.
B:	I went into teaching
B:	Here in Texas it's a real mess right now.
A:	Oh, really.
B:	Oh definitely.
B:	There's no.
B:	Let's see,
B:	we've had the funding,
B:	we've run out of money.
B:	We've frozen the money.
B:	Right?
B:	And they had until the fifteenth of April to come up some formula that would be more equitable to different districts according to finances, because the poor districts were getting less money, so not as good an education.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Right?
B:	And now they're trying to take some money away from the richer districts, like the one that I'm in, in Dallas, and make us pay our money to the smaller ones and make it more equitable.
B:	And if they can't come up with something by the fifteenth, then the state's supposed to decide, the courts.
A:	What do you think the outcome will be?
B:	I think they're maybe going to give us a state income tax.
B:	Do you have one?
A:	Yeah
B:	I'm not looking forward to it,
B:	but something's got to be done.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Oh yeah,
A:	we've had one as long as I can remember
B:	Well, it's going to hit us.
A:	Yeah
B:	And I don't know,
B:	doesn't seem like it work to take it away when we're using it.
B:	But maybe,
B:	I know we're not using it so wisely.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	We have too many administrators in some of these big districts.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But other than that. Well, can you think of anything else we need to talk about.
A:	Um, I can't think of anything on recycling.
B:	Me, either.
B:	Anything else?
A:	No.
B:	What about people from, um, Pennsylvania.
B:	What do they think about Texans?
A:	What do we think about them?
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Oh, I don't know
B:	Have you thought about that?
A:	No,
A:	I never really thought about it
A:	what you think about Pennsylvanians.
B:	Probably a lot more civilized, more, um, refined than a lot of the people would be down here.
A:	Oh really
B:	I would hope so,
B:	I mean you've been together a little bit longer than we have.
A:	I don't know,
A:	I really don't know anyone from Texas or anything.
B:	No.
A:	I've never been there, um.
B:	Well I've never,
B:	well let's see,
B:	I think I have too been to Pennsylvania.
B:	Gettysburg?
A:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah,
B:	we went up there. Now that I think about it. On one of our long trips we take off on.
A:	Uh-huh
A:	Oh, well
B:	Shboom.
B:	child in What are you saying, Holly?
B:	talking to Oh, my little girl is in the second grade, told me to tell you that Shboom means good-bye in the Israeli language.
A:	Oh.
B:	child in is what you say it is, Holly? In Israel, in Israel.
B:	on See she's got this little girl from Israel in her classroom that she's befriended.
A:	Oh.
B:	So she's into this.
A:	Oh, is it like a foreign exchange type student?
B:	Huh-uh.
B:	You know we've had a lot of the Jewish people ...
B:	Colorado Springs.
A:	Oh, right,
A:	up in, uh, T I out there?
B:	Yeah.
A:	Oh, right
B:	Did you hit one.
A:	Yeah.
A:	I just hit one then.
B:	All right.
A:	Uh,
B:	The savings and loan scandal.
A:	It,
A:	I, got to, uh,
A:	this is going to be fun.
A:	Are you Republican or Democrat?
B:	Uh, kind of neither.
A:	Okay,
A:	well, I'm a, I'm a Democrat
A:	so I was going to say if you're a Republican, boy we would really have a good time.
B:	I do have some Republican leanings, because, I am division one, you know
A:	Well, I, uh,
A:	to answer that one before we get to our subject, you know, I always get a kick out of Republicans who take credit for all the military hardware that was bought for the war and how successful it was, though when it comes to the budget they say well the Democrats control all the money
A:	and they're the ones wasting all the money.
A:	And, I always wondered how they can play the money either way they want, you know.
A:	I get a kick out of that.
A:	But, anyway, the subject, go ahead.
A:	You first.
A:	Yeah.
A:	I, uh, I don't think it's over.
A:	I think that, uh, so many other things have taken over, uh, in the media.
A:	But, I think it was just plain greed,
A:	and I think it was deregulation really when they said do anything you want banks.
A:	Go ahead loan your money out, you know.
B:	I agree with you.
B:	I think it had something to do with deregulation,
B:	but I believe, uh, more of it was just greed.
A:	Yeah.
A:	I was talking to someone,
A:	I can't remember who it was,
A:	but he was a small businessman,
A:	and he said that the banks were calling,
A:	he borrowed some money
A:	and the banks were calling and just looking for people to give their money away.
A:	They just got totally carried away with buying property and reselling the same property
A:	and, uh, yeah,
A:	there, there should be thousands of people in jail as far as I'm concerned.
B:	Well,
A:	Not just a couple.
B:	You know, we've watched and watched T V and seen that a lot of these people were doing things, not just playing in the gray and not just reselling property at a profit, but financing the same property three and four times, you know,
A:	Right.
B:	and the list goes on and on.  You know, of, of just the crimes committed. Much less for criminals that should be indicted.
A:	Well I, I agree a hundred percent.
A:	Oh, yeah.
A:	It may have started with HUD too.
A:	I noticed that HUD was in terrible shape
A:	and that was property
A:	and, uh, they lost a lot of money there,
A:	and then some of these big, these rich people started to,
A:	even Murchison here, who owned the Cowboys, had a lot of property down in Florida.
A:	This was several years ago
A:	and he lost, you know, all, all of his money before he died.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Not all of it,
A:	I don't know how much he lost,
A:	but, uh, they were just buying property and buying all kinds of real estate and thinking that there was a bottomless pit
A:	and it always would, it always would increase, you know,
A:	it always would, uh, uh, be more than what you paid for it
A:	and they just never even got conservative with our money at all.
B:	Yeah.
B:	It,
B:	everyone forgets whose money it was.
A:	Right.
B:	And, everyone forgets that there are several of these people that are wanted by the federal government currently and are overseas where extradition is merely a funny American word.
A:	Yeah.
B:	I,
B:	as far as being a Republican or a Democrat, I think no American could stand for criminal action.
A:	Well now the reason that I said that is because I was going to blame all, uh, Reaganomics for, you know,
A:	you spend your way to prosperity
A:	and when you opened up the bank deregulation without any controls, I thought, well, that was the philosophy, you know.
A:	Just keep spending until taxes are lower,
A:	and, I thought, that's not going to work, you know,
A:	and I knew that it wasn't going to work originally.
B:	Well,
A:	And, it hasn't worked now.
B:	In theory, in theory, a healthy economy has a lot of spending going on.
A:	Right,
A:	no doubt,
A:	no doubt.
B:	And, if people are making money, people can spend money,
B:	and it'll generate taxes.
A:	Oh, yeah.
A:	I, I, I agree with that,
A:	but there's got to be some control
A:	and apparently there was, you know,
B:	Well, the problem is,
B:	and the problem with Reaganomics is that the people at the top are the ones getting rich.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And, for what they would cost
B:	and we weren't producing anything.
A:	Yeah.
B:	We, as Americans weren't producing anything.
B:	It was all inflation.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And, I'm sorry we don't get into a real argument over it,
B:	we agree too closely,
B:	but,  But, you, you can't say that that was right.
A:	Yeah.
A:	I know, uh,
A:	Oh, no,
A:	I,
B:	No intelligent person can say that we could spend our way rich.
A:	Right.
B:	Remember all we're doing is delivering pizzas to each other.
A:	And, and not high quality ones at that, you know.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Well,
A:	Well, I do have a lot of confidence in the, the American people and the economy and everything else.
A:	I, I feel bad when I see the inefficiency, even here at T I, you know,
A:	and I think that the,
A:	it, it still,
A:	a lot of the workers don't understand that, uh, they need to put out the best that they can because it comes right back to them, you know.
B:	It is a life and death struggle, with with the Japanese.
A:	Right.
A:	I know,
A:	and I, when I,
A:	of course I'm in facilities,
A:	and I work with a lot of mechanics
A:	and I just cannot understand why they're just happy to spend their time here rather than produce, you know,
A:	and they think that, well, I'm paid anyway
A:	so it doesn't matter, you know.
B:	I, I'm very tired of it all pays by the hour.
A:	Right.
A:	Right.
B:	Uh, and I'm nonexempt.
A:	Yeah,
A:	oh, really?
B:	What?
B:	What, what does a nonexempt sound like?
A:	Uh, you're too informed.
A:	They're, they're very, they're very, uh, not interested.
A:	They wouldn't even talk probably about some of the things we're talking about now.
B:	Uh,
A:	I guess I'm dealing with too many Texas mechanics here.
A:	I don't know really.
B:	Uh, that's,
A:	I'm being a Yankee, I guess I'm, I'm letting my Yankee come out, you know.
B:	Well, I,
B:	now maybe I'm not the, uh, typical nonexempt that you deal with.
B:	The badge is silver.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And, uh, I am degreed, though nonexempt.
A:	Uh, well that's good.
B:	No
B:	That's not good
B:	but,
A:	No,
A:	right,
A:	I mean, that's good that you're degreed,
A:	uh, uh, your time will come.
A:	We, uh,
A:	I know a few people,
B:	No,
B:	I, I do not wish my time to come.
A:	Oh, really,
A:	what,
A:	are you in a tech,
A:	like do you do technician work or something?
B:	Oh, no,
B:	no,
B:	no.
B:	I,
B:	government tool control is my specialty now.
B:	I did P C protection control work for, uh, About ten or twelve years, uh,
A:	Oh quality, okay.
B:	right now I'm just trying to tool crib and chips.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Times are bad.
A:	Oh, yeah.
A:	Well, now, is, is, uh, really terrible.
A:	I'm, uh, management level uh, facilities,
A:	and when the cuts came, three of us got, uh, bounced back,
A:	and so we're just, uh,
A:	I'm calling you from work.
A:	I'm, I'm covering, uh, weekends and nights now.
A:	I'm, I'm one of the manager reps,
A:	there's three of us to cover in Dallas facilities
A:	and just we're essentially standby and problems, uh, all, all nights and weekends.
A:	That's my,
A:	I only get one weekend off a month right now.
A:	I call it my recession job.
B:	It's,
A:	Uh, being basically an engineer and liking, uh, doing installation work, well there's not any.
A:	I mean there is literally is no installation work going on.
B:	They turned all installation up here off.
A:	Yeah.
B:	They told facilities they could not work.
A:	Yeah.
B:	I don't care what the jobs are, you will not work.
A:	Yeah,
A:	it, it,
B:	And, and, as far as our, you know, our conversation goes, I would really be interested to know how much of T I's problems now are related to, the banking structure.
A:	Banking?
A:	I think that, not, not only T I, but a lot of it, when they talk about, uh,
A:	there was one point I was going to make.
A:	I think the last I heard,
A:	and I, I have to admit I'm not as informed as them,
A:	but there's something like about eighty six billion that they admit.
A:	Well, I always double that.
A:	I figure well, if they claim that it's going to cost us eighty-six billion, it's got to be twice as much because no one admits their mistakes
A:	and so if that's true, it may mean that two hundred billion dollar category that was, that went down the tube somewhere.
B:	Uh, it really hurts me, to realize that a lot of people out there are trying to retire on their home values.
A:	Yeah.
A:	It's amazing really.
A:	It's amazing that,
A:	Oh, yeah.
A:	I know what you mean.
B:	Uh, one of our senior,
A:	Course your value of homes up there are pretty good.
A:	I mean, here they're not really that high,
A:	but are they pretty good up there?
B:	No.
A:	Oh, really.
B:	Our economy in Colorado Springs fell completely apart.
A:	Well we're in the metroplex here, you know,
A:	and, uh, it, it,
B:	Right.
A:	I die every time companies like General Dynamics,
A:	they, they lost several contracts
A:	and, and, I don't know if you noticed yesterday, you probably don't pay attention to the Bell Helicopter, you know,
A:	they were going to have big, uh, award,
A:	and Secorski got it. Which was Boeing Secorski, this which is up in the north somewhere, you know.
B:	Yeah,
B:	it's northwest.
A:	And, I don't know how,   Bell didn't get it.
B:	Seattle.
B:	Seattle,
B:	and also, uh, they do some of that in Wichita, Kansas.
A:	Well, I, I don't,
A:	they were advertising here that it was Bell, T I.
A:	T I was getting the, uh, electronics with Bell,
A:	and so, it was a double.
A:	One that Bell is in the Metroplex
A:	and two, that T I was doing the electronics for them.
B:	Huh.
A:	And, they, they advertised that, that it was T I Bell, T I Bell and then all of a sudden, Secorski got it, yeah.
B:	Secorski Boeing.
A:	Secorski, Boeing,
A:	Boeing doesn't need the money.
A:	Something,
A:	I almost think there's some politics around here, because the metroplex here, in the Dallas, Fort Worth area, the, uh, with T I,
A:	I don't know if T I has lost as much as everybody else,
A:	but General Dynamics and L T V and Bell have lost project after project, you know.
B:	Well, you realize ...
B:	There you go.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Well, Jean, the subject is jury trials
B:	and should the jury recommend, uh, sentencing.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Now my personal opinion,
B:	I don't know.
B:	Uh, uh, here lately it seems,
B:	well up until a few years ago, I guess, there just too many liberals about and permitting too many, oh,
B:	they just broaden the human rights to, to cover just about everybody, and I don't think those guilty of committing capital crimes should be permitted to go spend a few years in jail and be turned lose on parole.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	It's just not right.
A:	I think I agree with that very much.
B:	And therefore I think juries should be able to recommend sentencing.
A:	I,
A:	do you,
A:	Do you think a lot of people, when they are listening to a trial, put themselves in a position like that and say, I would never do something like that,
A:	and it's for them to believe that somebody else could do the things that have been done?
B:	Yes,
B:	very possibly.
B:	So many of us have led sheltered lives that, uh, when we go into a, sit in on, a jury,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I've never done it myself unfortunately,
A:	I never have either.
B:	I wish I could have.
B:	I've just never been called up.
A:	My husband works as a police man,
A:	so I always assumed that that was why I was never called.
B:	Well now, that's possible.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But, uh, I was called up as an alternate once,
B:	but I never made it to the jury.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh, do they have such a thing now as a six man jury?
B:	Not that I know of.
A:	Somebody told me the other day that there is, what they call a six man jury,
A:	and I had never heard of such thing,
A:	and I wondered if it was true.
B:	Uh-huh
B:	Uh, I've never heard of it.
A:	I never had either,
A:	but I just wondered. Uh,
A:	another question was, should a criminal case, should the jury be unanimous on their decision,
A:	and that I wasn't sure on either, whether it should be unanimous or not.
B:	Uh, well, there again, uh, I suppose it should be.
A:	That would mean they all would have to decide one way or the other.
B:	Exactly.
B:	Is it guilt or innocence.
B:	But then again, so many times you get one or two holdouts,
B:	and, and it permits the criminal to get a retrial.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah.
B:	And there,
B:	that's not too bad in this sense, because you might get someone in their that's a victim of circumstances
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I mean, that's happened and giving them another trial might give them additional time to, uh, prove their innocence.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
A:	Bring some of these things out.
B:	Yes.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	We can't overlook the fact that there are innocent people that do get involved in jury trials.
A:	Un, apparently there are.
A:	I, I, I,
A:	since my husband worked as a policeman, I can't believe there are very many people that come to trial that have, are not guilty of something some part of whatever they're accused of.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I have, I still have a little bit of a problem with that.
A:	Uh, but, I would suppose there are circumstances, you're in the wrong place at the right time, or know the wrong person at the right time.
B:	Oh, that's it,
B:	and you just might resemble somebody.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh, out here in Texas we had a, a, a, great miscarriage of justice.
B:	It was finally, after nine years, it was finally, uh, taken care of.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	We had,
B:	a Black man was accused simply because he resembled uh, someone who who held up, a, Seven Eleven, I think it was.
A:	Oh. Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	And even though he had witnesses that said that, uh, he was at work,
B:	and he had all sorts of character witnesses and what not,
A:	They still found him guilty?
B:	They found him guilty.
A:	When people said he was at work?
B:	Well, they said it this, this happened during lunch time.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And he could have gotten away at lunch time and committed the robbery.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
B:	But after nine years,
B:	well as a matter of fact they made a T V show about it, after nine years, they finally came up with evidence and proved, to prove that he was innocent.
A:	Oh, for heaven's sake.
A:	So there's nine years of that man's life gone.
B:	Exactly.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Now that just was not fair.
A:	No,
A:	huh-uh.
B:	So.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I guess that's where a lot of the problem lies,
A:	we're, we bend over backwards protecting the guilty people, the one's that are on trial.
B:	Yes.
A:	And, And we often forget about the one the injustice has been done to, because I bet, they still say our system is the best in the world.
B:	Unfortunately, that's what happens.
B:	Well, it's not, the, uh, uh, it's not the best system,
B:	but it's the best one in the world.
A:	Yeah,
A:	it's the best one that exists, I guess.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	And unfortunately, we just have to put up with a lot of things,
B:	and they try to solve them and everything,
B:	but, uh, I don't know,
B:	the Supreme Court,
B:	well, I'm, I'm, I'm still rancled about their decision to permit burning of the flag.
A:	Oh, I think a lot of people are.
A:	I think they've lost sight of some things that are very important to our country.
B:	Well, it,
B:	the, the, the First Amendment definitely says freedom of speech not freedom of action.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And, uh, uh, well that just rancles me
B:	no,
A:	That bad, huh.
A:	I wouldn't like it,
A:	but I don't know if I'd go that far.
B:	Well, I happen to be a flag freak.
B:	I served, I was in the service
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I was in Korea
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, uh, well, I saw what the red in the flag represents.
A:	Yeah,
A:	well, I think pride in our country and our flag is so important.
A:	It's important in so many facets of our lives.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, I, I feel like if they don't, people don't like what our flag stands for, they're welcome to go some place else.
B:	Yeah,
B:	see what they,
A:	There's nobody holding them here.
B:	See how they'd like it under another flag.
A:	Right.
A:	They'd soon be back,
A:	I'm sure.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Well, Jean, we seem to be of the same opinions here.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I hope they get something out of this.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I don't know about the judge making the decision, if that's,
A:	do you think that's good you know, like if a jury,
B:	Oh
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but I think the jury should be able to recommend,
A:	Make a recommendation?
B:	Yes.
A:	Do they sometimes make a recommendation?
B:	Oh, yes,
B:	yes.
A:	That's what I was thinking they, they sometimes do.
B:	I don't know if that's a regular procedure or what.
B:	But I know I'm always hearing that, uh,
B:	well, the jury came in with a guilty verdict
B:	and they recommended,  twenty years or something.
A:	And they recommend.
A:	Yeah.
A:	And then the judge has the final decision on what does really happen. Yeah.
B:	Yes.
B:	Of course, now, the jury may not be completely aware of all the ramifications of a sentence.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	They may not know that if you give him twenty years he can get out in five.
A:	Well, I think that's where a lot of people think, boy they're getting put away for a long time,
A:	but actually, their chance, course, when,
A:	a lot of times when they come up for parole, they're denied.
A:	It depends on you know, what they're, what they'd been guilty of, and a lot of different things, I guess.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah,
B:	but too many times they, they are permitted to go out on parole
B:	and,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	A lot slip through the protective whatever they have to do.
A:	And there are bad ones that do slip back out and end up hurting somebody again.
B:	Yes.
B:	They just go out and repeat their crimes.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	Well there,
B:	well, they say after three offenses its automatically life in prison,
B:	but I think they ought to make it two offenses.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	I always thought there was, there was wrong,
A:	it seems sometimes that like somebody who is stealing a loaf of bread to feed his family got more jail sentence than somebody maybe that killed somebody.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	It seemed like there, sometimes there's not a good,
A:	the balance isn't right.
A:	It doesn't make sense.
B:	Yeah,
B:	very true.
B:	Well, here again now, there is where race seems to rear its ugly head so frequently.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Race or nationality even.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	yeah.
B:	But, uh, like you said, it's, it's not the best system,
B:	but it's the best one we've got.
A:	Yeah,
A:	right.
A:	So, let's put up with it, I guess.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Improve it if we can, if we ever get a chance.
B:	Sure enough.
A:	So.
B:	Jean, it's been awful nice talking to you.
A:	Well, it's been nice talking to you, Jack,
A:	and I hope you have a real good day and week.
B:	Well let's hope neither one of us ever has to run into this subject we were discussing.
A:	I hope not.
B:	Take care now.
A:	You, too.
B:	Bye.
A:	Bye-bye.
A:	Okay.
A:	Where, where are you from?
B:	Um, just here in Dallas.
A:	Oh, okay
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	because I, uh, I talked to a professor in, uh, what was it, North Carolina, who got the, the T I system,
A:	and he gave to all his students.
A:	So, my daughter's even talked to,
A:	and I've talked to several people from North Carolina.
A:	I was just curious.
B:	That's,
B:	yes,
B:	yes,
B:	that's true.
B:	I've  talked,
A:	Have you,  too?
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	People from Virginia and, and all over. Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
A:	I talked to the professor,
A:	and I asked him about it,
A:	and he said, Oh, he says, I think I'm the guy that, actually, uh, gave it to all my students.
A:	So that's why so many people are from this college.
A:	Go,  ahead,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	you, you first, Eve .
B:	Oh, okay.
B:	Um, well the subject we're supposed to be talking about, let's see, is, uh, food.
A:	Food.
B:	What type of foods do you cook
B:	and what would you, uh, cook in, uh, uh, let's see, if you were giving a dinner party?
B:	And the only reason why I may know a little bit about this, is that I'm planning on having a barbecue pretty soon.
A:	Oh, great.
B:	And to me, that's the type of thing that I like to give in, um, uh, cooking for people.
B:	And, uh, if he's cooking outside where it's cooler and, uh, you don't have to do all that much work. You know, you just, uh, slap on some food and slap on some barbecue sauce and away you go.
A:	Yeah.
A:	We have them too,
A:	and I, I'm trying to think which is the, best, uh, that I prefer.
A:	Uh, my wife, uh, doesn't like to have all that work on the very day that you're doing it, uh,
A:	and we haven't catered out very much, uh,
A:	we, I always worry about the barbecue in that you have to be,
A:	and you, have to make it perfect.
A:	Uh, I've made shish kabob, which I like.
A:	It's fairly easy and fast.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh,
A:	I guess I'm thinking of the easy thing to do for, for having, uh, uh, dinner.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I do cook,
A:	but not,
A:	I'm mostly the easy cooker.
A:	You know, the breakfasts and,  and the steaks, uh.
B:	Yes.
A:	Although I would like to experiment with, uh, the meals my mother made, you know. So to speak,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and I haven't gotten around to that yet, uh,
B:	What kind of meals did she make that you liked?
A:	Well, she was Polish
A:	and, uh, she would make very economical meals.
A:	We were very poor.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Different rice and ham and things that, uh,
A:	she would throw things together and galunkies and all that.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, I would like to try that one day.
A:	And she would make spaghetti with pork chops and, and special meat balls and everything.
A:	And my wife, of course, thinks I'm crazy, which I may be too
B:	Huh.
A:	but,
B:	No.
B:	Sounds interesting, uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah,
B:	that's great.
A:	But dinner parties are a lot of work, uh,
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah.
B:	But, uh, that's, that's why I like the, the outdoor stuff a,  a lot better.
A:	Yeah.
B:	People can entertain themselves, I think, a great deal more, uh, when you have a barbecue. Especially when you have hot dogs and hamburgers and,  uh, you know, nothing really fancy, like your, your shish kabobs, where you have to do a whole bunch of work.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Well, that, that,
A:	shish kabob is, uh, just because it only takes a few minutes to cook, you know,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	you get it ready,
A:	you have to do a lot of work beforehand, I agree, and buy special stuff.
A:	But, uh, so far as getting out there and, and putting it on, it only takes a a few minutes, uh.
B:	Right.
A:	But anyway, I'm, I'm thinking of the easy way, rather than,  my guests, I guess,
A:	but, uh,
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah.
B:	Well, I, I think you do, do a lot of work.
B:	Even if people do bring over things, you still do, uh, all the, uh,  housework and get everything prepared and utensils and just, just everything.
A:	Right.
A:	Right.
B:	Uh, you know, my mother used to make an Armenian rice dish.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	yeah.
B:	I'm thinking about, uh, special dishes,
B:	and, uh, yeah,
B:	it was made out of rice and consume soup, uh, and bacon and onions.
A:	Oh, yeah.
B:	And then you'd simmer it like all day long.
A:	Right.
B:	Oh it would,
A:	You'd get the odor of it, yeah.
B:	Yeah.
B:	And it was just, it was just wonderful.
B:	That's, that's something that I would really like to, uh, to try and find the recipe for.
B:	But we used to have that at Thanksgiving time. Because you can, you can put it on top of the stove, and do this,
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	yes.
B:	and, and there's so much broth and juice in there,  that it has to, uh, soak up into the rice, all day long, in order for it to, uh, uh, to come out fluffy and, and nice.
A:	Oh, great.
B:	And that was, you know,
B:	when you were talking about the, the Polish dishes, uh, some goulashes and things like that.
B:	That's, uh, that's what I thought about, was that Armenian rice dish.
A:	Oh, yes,
A:	we probably ought to try this.
A:	But it probably will never taste as good as we remembered.
A:	I guess it gets better and better as we remember it,  back, as we get older, you know.
B:	That's true.
A:	But we probably should try it, uh, to do that.
B:	That's true.
A:	The recipes are really interesting, you know.
A:	We're probably going to lose them
A:	and we'll probably forget all about them, you know.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Since we're trying to make everything so
A:	here I am talk about trying to make everything easy, you know.
B:	Right,
B:	right.
A:	I, uh,
A:	you talked about Thanksgiving, there are interesting meals at different times.
A:	Uh, something,
A:	my wife's from Texas,
A:	so, uh, I remember we were first married
A:	and we were living in New Jersey.
A:	And, uh, we were going over to my mother's house for Christmas, you know, to have a meal.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And we were on the way over,
A:	we were just married that very year,
A:	and she said, Oh, I'm looking forward to a nice turkey.
A:	I said, Turkey?
A:	I said, We don't have turkey at Christmas
B:	Oh.
A:	I said, We only have turkey on Thanksgiving.
A:	I said, We're going to have a ham.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	She said, What?
B:	Yeah!
A:	I said, Yeah.
A:	I said, No, turkey is only for Thanksgiving.
A:	And because she had turkey a lot, you know.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, that was surprising in the, in the east, uh,
A:	we always had ham, you know.
B:	Right,
B:	right.
A:	and, and that's one thing
A:	that's another recipe, I guess, we could talk about.
A:	Now the hams just kind of, you know, go take it out of a can or, uh, uh, a package, sliced, uh,
A:	the cans were cooked for hours and hours and, and were just wonderful, you know.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I, I'd like to try that too.
B:	Yeah.
B:	You know what I found was, at Sam's, uh, Wholesale uh, stores.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And, uh, what they have is this honey baked ham,
A:	Oh, yeah,
A:	I saw them.
B:	They,
A:	That's good.
B:	have you seen, have you had any of those?
A:	No,
A:	I, I, uh, I've, I know about Sam's.
A:	My wife I think goes
A:	but,
B:	If, if you ever get a chance to buy one of those, I think it was, uh, twenty dollars, for, uh, I don't remember how many pounds it was.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But you cook it in the bag that they send it in.
A:	Oh, really?
B:	And all the juices and everything are all sealed in.
B:	And, I tell you what, it's never failed to come out tender and juicy,  and just  and just delicious. Because I normally don't like ham, because it's so salty.
A:	Oh, I haven't heard  of that, yeah.
A:	Yeah.
B:	But with this honey bake that they have, that, that's the only one I have been able to find there at Sam's warehouse.
B:	It is absolutely delicious.
A:	Oh, yeah.
B:	And it slices great. Uh-huh.
A:	I'm trying to think of his name of it.
A:	Uh, uh, I don't know, uh.
A:	I see a can here, or a box here of Gourmet Choice.
A:	Uh, he delivers, uh.
A:	What is the name of this thing?
A:	I got a box, distributor, marked on it,
A:	it doesn't say, Gourmet Choices.
A:	But he,
A:	but it's a company that has, uh, you know, a truck that comes around.
A:	And, and they recently had hams.
A:	They have steaks and,  and, uh, actually, pirogies and all that stuff that, uh,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I, I wish I could tell you the name of the company,
A:	but I don't know what it is.
A:	But, uh, they recently had a ham, that was supposed to be,
A:	it was boneless
B:	Yeah.
A:	and we tried it.
A:	It was real nice,
A:	and it was fully cooked and everything.
A:	We had it for breakfast a long time.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	It was really great.
B:	Wow!
B:	You know, that sounds like it.
A:	Yeah.
B:	But that's, that's the only ham I have found that I thoroughly, thoroughly enjoy.
A:	I would like to try the old recipe though, of cooking it,
A:	and, and I keep saying this, uh, to, to do the different things that we did.
A:	But I would like to put one in the oven, you know, the old fashioned way and put it in there for hours and hours, and see if,
A:	because I don't think in, in my married life, which is, uh, twenty-six years now, we've never done that, you know.
B:	Wow.
A:	And I remember that when I was a kid, uh,  to have the ham cooking. Uh, rather than that, we just,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	ham is just something you have for breakfast occasionally, you know.
B:	Right
A:	And that's it, you know.
A:	In the old days, we had, hams were the meal,
A:	and I don't, I don't think we,  really have it as a main meal.
B:	Right.
B:	That's true.
B:	I, I don't think so anymore, not with more, becoming more conscious of, uh, fat and cholesterol and, and all those good things.
A:	Right.
A:	That's an interesting point.
A:	How, how have you changed your, your meals now?
A:	Have you,
A:	into that, uh,
B:	Oh, yeah.
A:	looking at those things?
B:	Well, my parents actually started it,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, uh, getting,
A:	Parents, that's unusual.
B:	Well, it, it's true.
B:	I think my parents are very unusual because, uh, we grew up in the south, where, uh, you have all the, uh, you know, biscuits and gravy and, oh, fried foods galore.
A:	Oh, yeah.
B:	And then gradually they started switching over to, uh, plain rice, uh, no gravy.
A:	That's amazing.
B:	It's just, it really is.
B:	They, uh, they're actually, they actually, uh, uh, led us through it, versus, uh, us teaching them, you know, the, uh, the finer points.
B:	But my mother has really high cholesterol,
B:	so it was one of the reasons which started them off.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And they started doing this, like in the early, or in about the middle seventies.
A:	Well, that's amazing,
B:	Uh, yeah.
A:	they'd go,
A:	that they have started.
A:	Usually it's the younger people doing it.
A:	Yeah.
B:	It's true,
B:	it's true.
B:	I agree with you.
A:	I,
A:	uh,  my, my wife's mother is the only grandparent left,
B:	So, it's really neat.
A:	and, uh,  she has high cholesterol.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Of course, I I have too, but not like hers.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And I always get after her about salt and everything else.
A:	And she just will, I mean, she's going to eat the same way she ate, you know,  her whole life.
B:	That's right.
B:	Right
A:	And, uh, I like to,
A:	I'm trying to do something about my cholesterol in the same way.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	uh, it's, it's not the
A:	. I listen to, uh, Larry Newarth on the weekend.
A:	He's a fitness expert
A:	and, uh, he talks about, you know, the chicken and the rice and everything else.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, and, uh, throwing away peanut butter and all the things  you know, the things not to eat, you know, ever.
A:	I think the peanut butter and mayonnaise he would throw away for ever.
A:	And then he's got me into making eggs without the yolk.
B:	Wow!
A:	You know, try that sometime.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	My wife says she can't stand it.
A:	But, uh, when I make scrambled eggs now, talking about a recipe,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I,
A:	say if I have four eggs, not, not for me,
A:	but if I'm making four eggs, uh, even for my daughter and I, I'll take out all the yolks but one.
B:	Wow!
A:	And and it's fine.
A:	You, you don't miss it, uh.
B:	Huh.
A:	In fact, when I, when I make eggs for myself, if I, if I fry them, throw them in there, I will almost hard fry them so I can take, not eat the yolk at all.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	uh-huh.
A:	And you don't really miss it.
A:	You get the flavor of the yolk,
A:	but, uh you don't eat it at all, you know.
A:	You don't,
A:	they're hard.
A:	You get like, uh, a bite at, at the most.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And so, uh, for cholesterol, I mean, I'm trying that.
A:	And it has worked.
A:	My cholesterol gone down twenty points.
A:	So, although,
B:	Wow, that's good.
A:	I haven't gotten on the, which, whether butter or not cholesterol, margarine and all that.
A:	I don't know, know, whether any of that is true, you know Whether the margarines or butter,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Okay.
B:	Okay.
B:	What can we do about crime?
B:	I don't know.
B:	The one thing that keeps coming to mind to me is that they're, they don't have enough space in the prisons to put people
B:	and they keep letting out people that have, you know, these horrible records.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So maybe we need to have more prisons or use the old army bases and make them into prisons or something.
B:	That's one thing I guess I could think of
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh, it's definitely a big concern,
B:	I mean every day it's, you know, all
B:	we live in a little small town,
B:	and there's just rapes and murders and burglaries and everything all the time.
B:	And you just can't get away from it no matter where you live.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Well I,
B:	So it's pretty scary.
A:	I'm, I'm from Butler,
A:	and I can't say that there's too much of that there.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Um, I know the bigger cities have problems with it.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Uh, I really don't know what we can do about it.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Unless they start enforcing the, uh,
B:	It's rough, because
A:	That's the only thing I can think of.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah,
B:	well even some of the sentences just seem ridiculous.
B:	I mean you hear about people, you know, six and seven times have committed burglaries
B:	and they're still, you know, only serving six months in prison.
B:	So that's definitely something.
B:	They could have a more automatic sentence instead of having the judge having the choice of like, you know, from one month to ten years or something
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	That would be one thing that, you know, I think could help is having the laws be changed so that they were more stiff penalties and more automatic penalties, you know, for certain crimes
A:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I, I, uh, I don't know what they're going to do with the problem because it just keeps getting worse and worse.
B:	Yeah.
B:	And one things that they're saying, now,
B:	are you going,
B:	are you a student
B:	or are you in the work force
B:	or,
A:	Um, I'm a senior at Clarion University.
B:	Oh, okay.
B:	Because one of the things that I've heard so much about um, lately is the situations on campus where crime has gone up so much.
B:	And apparently many of the, especially like in date rape, many of the, uh, you know, perpetrators seem to be getting off because the universities kind of cover up.
A:	Well, not only that, a lot of them's not even turned in.
B:	And they don't really,
A:	You know, what I mean?
B:	Wow.
A:	A lot of times the girls don't even report it.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah.
A:	Um, I've heard of a few case up here,
A:	but I can't say that I've heard of, uh, you know, any significant amount.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Uh, but then again like you don't know how many girls are reporting them or not.
B:	Yeah.
B:	They say like only one in ten are reported.
B:	I believe it.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	That's awful.
B:	So one thing they could do is probably support people more reporting it.
B:	I know some police agencies try to have women police officers that the women can report to and this kind of thing.
B:	But I'm sure it's still terribly traumatizing, you know, for people to report it.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So that's probably something else they could do.
A:	Yeah.
B:	I don't know,
B:	it seems like something else in terms of crime is certainly involved with drugs, you know.
B:	And that's like as long as,
B:	it almost makes me feel, in a way, like making drugs legalized just to get all the money out of it and not have, you know,
B:	because these kids are saying why should I go to high school
B:	and so I can go out and work at Burger King, you know, for four dollars an hour or whatever, when I can make four hundred dollars a day selling drugs.
B:	So that's certainly a big problem.
B:	I don't know what the solution to that is.
B:	Having more drug treatment centers available.
B:	Jeez, I don't know.
A:	Uh. See, you see now I would say that that's a bigger problem up here than even the date rape or anything.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I know a lot of people that partake in that.
A:	And I'm not saying they're bad people,
A:	but I, I, I would say that's a bigger problem.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Because it ends up,
B:	even if it's just kind of like this social drug use, you're still ending up supporting these big drug pin, you know,
B:	huge amounts, thousand and millions and millions of dollars are getting spent, you know, on higher and higher up, on drugs,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and it's definitely got to do with crime.
B:	You know, you hear about people selling their babies, you know, to get some crack.
B:	I mean, just, oh,
B:	gosh, horrible stuff like that.
B:	One of the things they're doing is, is they're prosecuting the women who are having these kids that are addicted to crack.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	They said, uh, some of the statistics show like one out of every ten babies being born in these public hospitals are addicted to crack,
B:	So that's, you know, another way of looking at it is as the woman is being a criminal, you know, for doing that to her child.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So I don't know who's the victim there.
B:	And, it's a very complicated problem.
B:	I don't envy the government trying to cope with it. Gosh.
A:	No, I don't either.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Well, I guess that's about all I have to say.
A:	Uh,
B:	Is there anything else you would want to,
A:	No.
B:	Okay.
A:	I can't say that I, I just know that it's really bad in some areas
A:	and something's going to have to be done sooner
A:	but,
B:	Yeah.
A:	I don't, I don't know what they can do.
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah.
B:	It's frustrating.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Well,
B:	Okay.
B:	Well,  thanks for talking.
A:	It was nice talking to you.
B:	Have a good day.
A:	You too.
A:	Bye.
B:	Bye, bye.
B:	Uh, basically I'm at home
B:	and I have two cats and my husband,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I mean my husband's great.
A:	Oh, uh-huh.
B:	It's wonderful,  you know,
A:	Yeah.
B:	and, and, uh, so I'm about forty and whatever,
A:	Uh-huh
A:	Around there, huh.
B:	So, yeah.
A:	Well, you're, you're just a youngster then
B:	Yeah,
B:	I'm just a spring chicken, I guess
A:	I passed the fifty.
A:	So, I guess our topic's going to be changes in the women's roles,
A:	so it should be real interesting.
B:	Well,
B:	Righto
A:	So, you think we're ready?
B:	I think I'm ready
A:	Okay
A:	okay.
A:	Uh, you want to start off?
B:	Well, let's see,
B:	the changes I've seen in women's roles, uh,
B:	since I am in the forty age, I'm a fifties baby uh,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and from my mother's generation to my generation it's just a very, very wide, uh, it's been a big change.
A:	Very much, yeah,
A:	yeah.
B:	Very much,
B:	and I think you'll have to agree
B:	and and since we were in, uh, sort of the ground level, the bra burning of the sixties,
A:	Yes.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	and, and we didn't really know what the agenda was going to be uh,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and I think, you know, it got off to a really radical,
B:	it has a radical fringe to it that, uh, I've sort of backed away from.
A:	I think all things get started sometimes in that manner.
B:	Yeah.
A:	You know, they come in that way.
B:	And, to make a change, you know, you have to make a splash.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	But, to continue in that vein, I think it got a little bit warped and off the track in several areas,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but I really do think that women have made a contribution uh, to human beings, I mean to be human and what it's like and have feelings and emotions
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and it's okay
B:	and I think, uh, you know on the other hand, I don't know that men have changed that much.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and then the women change around them.
A:	I hadn't thought much about that,
A:	but that is true.
A:	That,
B:	Uh, I think men are trying.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Some of them.
B:	But they don't have a national organization of men,  to, uh, help them out
A:	No.
B:	and uh, what's changing them, though, is the economic situation,  where both team, it has to be a team partnership now,
A:	Very much.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and they both have to work
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and they both have to raise the children,  if we're going to have any kind of future at all,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, and that, I think has been the downfall of the last ten years.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	You know, the me, oh,
B:	I don't know,
B:	the, the yuppiedom,  the whatever it was, the, you know, women didn't know how to go about doing the careers
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and they wanted to compete with men,
B:	they wanted to be like men,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and that's wrong.
A:	Yeah.
B:	I think they finally discovered that they don't want to be like men, men
A:	Not,
A:	no,
A:	they, they hurt themselves a little bit in that way.
B:	Absolutely,
B:	and so that's, you know,
B:	they sort of threw the thing back another, you know, ten years,  that they've had to, you know, restructure,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but I saw the greatest T-shirt the other day,
B:	I got to get some for all my men friends,
B:	it says, let men run the world, women have more important things to do
A:	There you go
A:	There's a lot of truth in that.
B:	Right.
A:	Yeah.
B:	But, uh, I think men and women both have valuable, valuable assets to offer
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, you know, we shouldn't,
B:	we were made differently,  however you come to that conclusion,
B:	we were biologically, physiologically, made differently
B:	and there is great wonderment,  in that,
B:	and, uh, you know, we should respect that in each other
B:	so,
A:	Yes,
A:	it shouldn't be destroyed.
B:	Right.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah.
B:	And, and, you know, just sort of all swooshed into one channel sort of thing,
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	it's, it's viva la difference  someone said that
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah.
A:	Yeah.
B:	and I think that you can truly respect the other person,
B:	I mean, you know, Tom is just always saying, what a mystery you are, you know you know.
B:	Depends,
A:	Well, that's kind of makes it exciting. You know.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Well that depends on what day of the month it is.
A:	Yeah
B:	But, uh, I don't know,
B:	I guess we've gotten more of a,
B:	in, in terms of that, I think we've got more of a sense of humor about each other and our roles,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, but it's still a challenge being in a marriage and trying to figure out those roles
B:	and,
A:	I think now when both are working they have a more more of a chance of working together because they're starting out that way.
B:	Yeah,
B:	well, that's, that's a very different way to do,
A:	Yeah.
B:	you know, the woman doesn't start off at home,  raising the kids and goes back into her career, you know,
A:	Right.
A:	Right.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Because you get set in your ways
A:	and it's,  really hard because to, to really to get help. Uh, you know to get the work load shared.
B:	Are, are you married?
A:	Yes,
A:	uh-huh.
A:	Our,
B:	Do you have children?
A:	I, we have five children,
A:	they're They're all grown and on their own
B:	Oh, my goodness.
A:	so,
B:	Oh, my.
A:	They're, uh,
B:	How did you do?
A:	Uh, how do you mean that?
B:	Well, I mean, okay,
B:	well did you have boys, girls,
B:	how did,
B:	how,
A:	Uh, we have, uh, two girls and three boys
A:	and our,  our baby girl just had a baby girl
B:	Oh, my.
B:	Oh, my.
A:	Last week was her first baby.
B:	Oh, how exiting.
A:	So it's been real exciting.
B:	I, I tell you what.
B:	I don't know what I would do without my friends having all their kids.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I just love the babies
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, and since I'm sort of in a medical situation where I can't do that, it's,
A:	Yeah.
A:	Have you been that way long?
B:	Just eight years,
B:	just
A:	Just eight years.
B:	the most important years of my life you know
A:	That's, that's a long eight years, though.
B:	Yeah,
B:	it has been.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, uh, so there have been major, major adjustments,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but that's another story.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But, you know, my husband has really, really filled in the gaps,
B:	I mean I, I couldn't ask for a better life.
A:	That makes a big difference.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I mean if this is the way it had to be,  this is the best way,  I could possibly do it
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, and that has a lot to do with his strength and his, just pitching in and, and his being able to, you know, all, all ego aside, do a lot of things that really,
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	so, when I say men haven't changed I guess I should look at my own backyard sort,  of thing
A:	Yes.
B:	and,
A:	Well, probably your role
A:	and, and the way you are also has changed, though. You know, compared to what it would have been twenty, fifty years ago.
B:	Oh, yeah.
B:	Yeah,
B:	that's true.
B:	I mean, boy,
B:	I mean I, I would have had so,
B:	I had so much guilt to begin with
B:	and the changes that had to take place, you know,  where I couldn't do a lot of things and, uh, just adjusting to that,  that, uh, yeah, that was a major change,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but so, I guess uh, in the end, you know, you each take your own situation and you, and you deal with it the best you can,
B:	but but, but women I think are a whole, you know sort of riding the course,
A:	The best you can, yeah.
B:	they're, they're got a little wobbly and a little shaky there,
B:	I think the future of this whole thing is going to be what happens with the day care situation.
A:	I,
A:	yeah,
A:	that's the only thing I worry about is the, the child's love and security.
A:	That,
A:	I think that's being damaged, uh,  a lot.
B:	I think,  we're going to see a generation of kids that, you know, are just going to be a little bit, uh, oh, not very nurturing.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I think,
A:	I do, too.
A:	I, I think, uh,
A:	now some, some women can, can do both.
A:	They're very capable of working
A:	and, and,
B:	Yeah,
B:	but I wish they weren't so many,
B:	I, I wish they weren't role models for everybody,  because it's so dangerous.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	It, it really is, yeah.
B:	and then when she can't, you know, the failure of that is,  you know, her life sort of falls apart
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and she doesn't know who she is
B:	and she's,
A:	So many have to work to make a go of it, it seems,
B:	Absolutely.
A:	or they say they do anyways,
A:	and, but I think ones that don't have to, the,
A:	it's not as much of a stigma not to work as it was for a while there.
B:	Well, you know, I think that's, that's really, I think it depends on what part of the country you're in.
A:	Well, that could be.
B:	Uh, I, I would almost just say that because, you know, down here in the south you know, a woman's role is,  a woman's role,  sort of thing,
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
A:	Uh.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
B:	and you know,
A:	You mean it's stronger there?
B:	Uh, oh, yeah,
B:	yeah.
A:	Much stronger.
B:	And, and I think that, uh, you know, career women still have a lot of problems here,  with the good old boys,  here in Texas sort of thing,  making career moves
A:	Yeah.
A:	Right.
A:	Right.
B:	but, Uh, you know, in terms of women staying home and being appreciated for their talents, uh, it's just like the way it, it has been for years. I mean, you know, since the days of the pioneers, around here.
A:	Right.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah.
A:	Yes.
B:	and it, and it's hard for her to, uh, you know, watch her peers be appreciated, I think sometimes,
B:	but then I'm not there,
B:	so I don't know that.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah.
B:	And I have women that do both
B:	and I see a little jealousy on the part of, you know, the woman what has two little boys
B:	and, and she has an au pair, which is a live-in college kid working for her
B:	and then she has her business in the back
A:	Uh.
B:	and then my other girlfriend that has, you know, just runs the whole household herself and just has two kids and goes crazy,  all the time.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	And so I see I little bit of that
B:	and I always wish there was a balance, you know,  with the one and, and wish she could spend more time with her kids
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Right.
A:	But they're both,
B:	Get some peace and quiet.
A:	Yeah,
A:	they're both different people, too.
A:	That's, That's where the trouble lies.
B:	Yeah,
B:	definitely,
B:	so. You're right about that.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Some people, some people can adjust and have both, do both well,
B:	And that's,
A:	and others can't.
B:	That's true.
B:	That's so true.
B:	How, how did your daughter do it?
A:	Uh, well, uh, I have one daughter that works full-time.
A:	She has two little boys.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, they seem to do fine.
A:	She has been has talked about quitting, you know, and staying home for a few years.
A:	But then, it's real hard because she's got an excellent job.
B:	Right.
A:	Uh.
A:	Go ahead.
A:	So Ken, how do you do your family budget?
B:	Well, we don't actually have a budget, budget per se.
B:	What we do is, uh, maintain a normal checkbook. You know, like, everyone in the world does, I guess,
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	and occasionally it actually balances,
B:	And, um, we also, we, um, we have a, a U S Air and Visa card.
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	Every, every dollar we, every dollar we charge is a mile for our frequent flier mileage.
A:	Oh, yeah.
B:	It's a real good deal actually, if you charge a lot.
B:	So what we, what my wife and I have taken to doing is charging everything in sight.
B:	Anything we buy, we charge, including groceries and so forth.
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	So what we'll do is,
A:	Well, then you just pay it off at the end of the month?
B:	Right.
B:	We actually maintain a,
B:	we have, a, we, we, we, we have a checking account that we treat like a savings,
B:	scratch that,
B:	we have a savings account that we treat like a checking account.
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	And so what we do is, we anytime we do or make or charge something, we write it out as if we wrote a check.
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	And then at the end of the month all the money to covered already.
B:	So we just pay it off without having to worry about any interest or anything.
A:	Oh.
A:	That's a real good idea.
B:	It keeps us hopping.
A:	Yeah.
A:	See, now I'd never get my wife to be able to follow that.
A:	Before we got married I had money in the bank.
A:	I owned my own home.
A:	I put in so much money, each, you know, month towards long term savings, you know, like in, uh, mutual funds and things, you know,
B:	Huh-uh.
A:	and, uh, after I got married,
A:	no,
A:	it just didn't work anymore.
A:	She spends a lot.
A:	She likes to spend on anything and everything With body lotion, everything
A:	So, we really haven't, we don't have a good organized system, yet.
A:	Maybe after awhile I'll rub off on her or something
A:	I don't think,
B:	Well, you know, you know, you know, what's always good is sort of a for savings , where they just take money out of you're pay.
A:	Yeah.
B:	We did that for awhile where, um,
B:	we actually still do it with, with my wife's salary,  where we put it, we have a separate, a third account even, a savings account in, in an entirely different bank where what we do is take money out of her paycheck every week.
B:	I'm a graduate student.
A:	Yes.
A:	So am I.
B:	Oh, really.
B:	In what field?
A:	Well, uh, in information systems.
A:	I'm a voice researcher.
B:	Oh, okay.
B:	I'm in, uh, psycholinguistics, actually.
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	Um, but my wife has a real job.
A:	Yeah.
A:	So does mine.
B:	Yeah
B:	What we do is, we take money out of her, out of her paycheck each week.
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	And put it, it goes directly to another account, that we don't, at an entirely different bank, that we don't have access to so easily,
B:	and it goes there
B:	and it stays there
B:	and it builds up until we need it for something.
A:	Yeah.
A:	See, I think we might have to do that
A:	Of course, she looks at what she brings home each week.
A:	It's going to be hard for her to, uh, not have her own money. Because, like now, you know, I put money in the bank and saved to go back to graduate school for two years.
A:	And now she wants to go back to school,
A:	but she saved enough maybe to get her through August.
B:	Oh.
A:	You know, and that's it.
A:	And I keep saying, now, Laura, you're going to have to save a little money.
A:	I don't know if my paltry graduate student fees are going to get us through.
A:	It doesn't work, Ken
B:	Gee.
A:	My mother always said, "now, don't argue about money",
A:	so we don't.
B:	Right.
A:	But, you know, there goes my savings
B:	God.
A:	But, you know, it's one of those things.
B:	I got lucky.
B:	My wife apparently is not a,
B:	she likes to spend,
B:	but she's pretty good about things.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Now, see my wife will do things like make clothes.
B:	Wow.
A:	One of our, one of our big investments that, you know, I was wholeheartedly in favor of, was to buy a sewing machine. Because she makes clothes.
A:	And, you know, a descent sewing machine will really help her out
A:	and she's already made, you know, presents and gifts and things for,  shorts for me and things for the summer.
A:	You know, so I guess I can't, you know, we've probably almost paid off the sewing with, uh,  yeah, with the savings from that.
A:	So I can't complain too much, you know,
A:	she's, she's good about that.
A:	And, also, we, we dine at home a lot.
A:	You know, she likes to cook.
A:	So that saves us from restaurants or whatever
A:	but,  but, she does have things where she likes to pamper herself that just to me seem like money dumped down a drain. You know.
B:	Right.
B:	Well, I guess we all have those feelings.
A:	Yeah.
B:	I, uh, I uh, I, I go to, uh,
B:	I pay what I think is a lot of money to go to a karate class, you know.
A:	Huh-uh.
A:	You know, but you need a hobby.
B:	Right.
B:	Exactly,
B:	but that to her is sort of like a waste.
A:	Yeah.
A:	That's true.
B:	But she does her nails.
B:	So,
A:	I know,
A:	and those nails are so expensive
A:	Oh, gosh.
A:	I was so excited when she decided she wasn't going to do her nails anymore.
A:	I guess she just stopped polishing them because they were yellow.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And then she waits for them to get their color back.
A:	And then she'll polish them again.
A:	I don't know, whatever.
A:	So she stopped for awhile.
A:	Boy, what a difference.
A:	They buy nail polish every two weeks,
A:	it's, uh,
A:	my gosh,
B:	Yeah.
A:	And lotion, oh, my goodness, body lotion,
B:	Oh, yeah.
A:	we spend more on soft, on, on body lotions with sesame oil and all these different things, than, uh,
A:	she must spend more on one application of body lotion than I do on soap for an entire year.
B:	Yeah
B:	Good old Ivory
A:	Yeah.
A:	It's funny.
B:	Um, well, it's for your benefit though, right.
A:	Oh, I think so,
A:	she's always soft.
A:	That's true.
B:	, so that's helpful.
A:	Yeah.
A:	But I think, um,
A:	I don't know,
A:	maybe after we're not in school anymore, we'll be much better at saving.
A:	I think, uh,  I think that's, uh,
B:	Yeah.
B:	Now do you still own a house?
B:	You said you owned one.
A:	I sold my house.
A:	And that's what's really paying for my time unemployed or whatever. Because the graduate assistantship really doesn't cover, the ten thousand dollars in tuition, really doesn't cover living expenses. Um,
B:	That's great.
B:	Right.
A:	we actually live in two different places right now because she has her job.
A:	So that makes it hard with, uh, you know,
A:	we're paying double rent, double utilities,
B:	Oh, wow.
A:	and that makes it sort of expensive
A:	but see, I live within my,  I live within my very menial income
A:	and she doesn't
A:	She doesn't live within her professional income, you know.
A:	So I just get a,
B:	that's the killer, two apartments,
A:	yeah,
A:	and then even if we want to see each other on weekends, it's twenty-five, thirty dollars in gas, every weekend,
A:	and that really adds up too, you know,
A:	so it gets tough,
B:	Wow.
A:	I think, we'll, do much better when we're living together and we're only paying one rent and one telephone.
A:	You know, it will cut our telephone bills, you know, by five, by four-fifths, you know,   if she's here,
B:	Eventually, right.
B:	I mean you're not going to,
B:	Right.
A:	so it's actually tough this year,
A:	but it will be better in June.
A:	She will move in with me in June,
A:	so hopefully our budget will in increase then.
B:	Have you been married for long?
A:	No.
A:	Just since December.
B:	Oh, wow.
B:	So you guys really are newlyweds.
A:	Yeah.
A:	We're, very newlyweds,
A:	but that's the,
A:	we, we're together probably for, um, uh, very close for about six months before we got married.
A:	So, you know, we lived within,
A:	though I had my own house and things, you know, we still, uh, we're still pretty close.
A:	I knew her spending habits
A:	and they're about the same
B:	Oh, wow.
A:	they haven't changed at all, you know.
A:	My mother always said to me, "Tom, now, the best thing to do is be like you're father.
A:	And I was like, well, that's true my dad never said a word, you know.
B:	Yeah.
A:	So.
B:	I actually encourage my wife to spend money sometimes. Because I think, you know, um, I sort of feel guilty, you know, given that she makes twice as much as I do.
A:	Yeah.
B:	So I say if she wants to go out and buy something, I never argue with her, because she's real good at, you know, sort of .
A:	I don't argue with her,
A:	but I just get all,
A:	it must show in my face.
A:	Must be like, must be cringes or something, you know,  especially yesterday or this past weekend.
B:	Yeah.
A:	We met half way between, at her parents house
A:	and, um, she had on a new pair of jeans
A:	and she'd gotten all new underwear,
A:	and I was like, Laura.  How did you get all this stuff?
A:	And, and I was like, oh.
B:	Had some money in her pocket, yeah.
A:	It was there.
A:	It was burning.
A:	It had to be spent.
A:	You know, and I'm like
A:	and she said everything was on sale.
A:	Oh, oh, that's good,
A:	at least it was on sale
A:	That's good honey,
A:	I'm glad you bought it on sale
A:	What else can you say?
B:	That's right.
B:	I do recommend the for savings bit.
B:	They, uh, they take it out or your paycheck before you see it because it doesn't hurt.
A:	Yeah.
A:	I think,
A:	Yeah.
A:	You don't notice it.
A:	I think that's probably a really good idea.
B:	You know, you don't even think about it if it's gone.
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	Yeah,
B:	so, uh, until you really need it
B:	and then you realize, you've got a couple of thousand dollars built up someplace else.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah,
A:	see I was,
A:	when I had, when I was living alone and I had my own house and things, uh, I put one, I was paid twice a month,
A:	one paycheck went into savings
A:	and one went into the checking account that paid the mortgage,  and the food bills
B:	Right.
A:	and it,
A:	and I was even able to, you know, to accumulate some savings in a sense in the checking account, because I'm pretty thrifty
A:	and, you know. But my wife likes to spend.
A:	She enjoys,
A:	so that's fine
A:	But a
A:	for savings , I'll have to look into that.
B:	Yeah.
B:	that's, that's been our godsend, you know.
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	We've had some sort of major emergencies come up, you know, where,
B:	we also own our own house,
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	um, we had an ice storm up here,  recently, where it was I mean, it was horrible.
A:	Yeah.
B:	I mean, half the city owned trees .
B:	One-third of all vegetation in this county is just wiped out.
A:	Oh, really, because of the heavy ice.
B:	Yeah.
A:	It broke the limbs.
B:	Exactly.
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	We had to our backyard tremendous willow tree that just fortunately,
B:	but it cost us, you know, a couple of hundred dollars just to bring the tree down. I mean, just to take off what was broken.
A:	Right.
B:	Plus, we went with a friend,
B:	and they said you know,
B:	and then the whole ice storm cost us quite a bit of money, even though insurance picked up some of it,  still, not all of it.
A:	Yeah.
B:	They don't get, you know,
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	and that,
B:	plus
B:	and then we had a car expense like that same week.
B:	One of the cars died, you know.
B:	All of this adds up
B:	and that for savings really comes in handy.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
A:	I can see that.
A:	I can that,
A:	I keep trying to say to her, Laura don't spend so much.
A:	What happens if something happens to a car, you know.
B:	Right.
A:	Oh, well, nothing will happen.
A:	Oh.
A:	All right,
A:	what type of things would you fix if you're having company come over?
B:	Well, I have a really great one that I make in the summertime because it's cool
B:	and it's, uh, it's just really pretty easy.
B:	It's pretty much dumping things in and stirring.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And I like that.
B:	Uh, the only thing you have to do is cook the rice that goes in, in it
B:	and then I, you're supposed to do chicken,
B:	but I just use those little cans of chicken.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And it makes it so much easier,
B:	and so you dump the rice,
B:	you dump the chicken
B:	and then you put in fruit like pineapple and mandarin oranges and grape,
B:	now grapes are the ones that you have to pull all that off,
B:	but I get my kids to do that,
B:	so,
A:	Oh
B:	I, I don't have to do that.
B:	And, um, and it really,
B:	and you mix it all up with
B:	there's a little dressing that goes in it that you have to stir up,
B:	but it's so simple
B:	and it tastes really good because it's cool in the summertime.
A:	Oh, yeah.
A:	You serve it cold?
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Oh, yeah,
A:	that sounds good.
B:	Yeah,
B:	it has to sit in the fridge over night,
B:	but, but it's really good.
A:	Um.
B:	And I like that one.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Usually when we entertain we do something really simple, because I like to visit with my company, and not be scurrying around in the kitchen,
B:	Yeah.
A:	so, a lot of times, we'll barbecue
B:	Exactly.
A:	like, uh, for Memorial Day we had some friends over
A:	and we just bought a brisket and marinated it overnight in one of those like Adolph's meat marinate, and put it on the smoker and cooked it.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Oh, that sounds good.
A:	And it was real good.
A:	You can buy a fairly cheap piece of meat that way
A:	and then people think they're eating steak or something
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah
B:	And these days that helps, doesn't it?
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah.
B:	Yeah.
A:	It really does.
B:	I know what you mean.
A:	I don't usually I just pass on any recipe that's got more than five or six steps to it because I just know I'll never take the time to do it.
B:	Now spaghetti's such an easy one.
B:	Um, I do that a lot.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I do spaghetti a lot.
A:	Yeah,
A:	it seems like most people like spaghetti.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I don't like to do that if it's real hot though.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Because, um, I don't know,
B:	I have a real thing about being hot in the, in the summertime.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I guess.
A:	Well I think when you heat your kitchen up it really makes a big difference, in your whole house.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I think that's right.
B:	And, um, we don't entertain that often,
B:	but when we do, I'm like you. I like it to be fast and easy. And something so that we can talk and not and not have to worry about being in the kitchen all the time.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Most,
A:	we don't entertain like people from work or stuff often.
A:	It's usually friends from church and stuff,
B:	Yeah.
A:	and it's usually kind of like, you want to come over, and they say well what can we bring.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And so it's real easy because you just make one or two things
A:	and everybody else brings something.
B:	That's exactly like us, from our church, we just do it,
B:	yeah.
A:	Oh yeah,
A:	yeah.
B:	Uh.
A:	It's a lot more relaxing.
A:	I don't know if I could take the pressure of having to you know, put on this really fancy dinner for someone.
B:	Well you see all that on T V
B:	and I could never be that person.
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	It just, uh, I'm just not,
B:	well I'm so, I'm pretty laid back.
A:	Yeah
B:	And, uh, you know, so I don't, I know a lady in a, my church
B:	and, uh, she like does her own bread and does her own stuff
B:	and so when she, um, does food, she really goes all out
B:	and I don't know how she can do it and be calm
A:	Yeah
B:	I guess,
A:	Do you work?
B:	No,
B:	I don't.
A:	Do you stay home with kids?
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	yeah.
A:	Yeah.
A:	I, I've been working,
A:	we're going to have a baby this summer,
A:	and I'm not going to work anymore.
B:	Oh, how exciting.
A:	Yeah.
A:	So hopefully, I think I'll enjoy cooking more, when I don't have to work all day.
A:	I don't like to come home and stand in the kitchen and spend an hour fixing something and then have to clean it up
A:	and by then it's eight thirty or nine o'clock at night,
A:	so.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Well I usually start about six and, an, and cook and then eat at seven. I mean, cook at five and eat at six, rather.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Eat at six, yeah.
B:	Yeah,
B:	and, uh, my family and I, we're a sit down together family.
A:	Oh, that's good.
B:	Uh, yeah,
B:	I don't like the run in and out part.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And I like to be able to sit down after school and have them talk with me an, and my husband about what's happened
B:	and, I think I, that was ingrained in me during my family time at home.
A:	Yeah,
A:	that's neat.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, uh, you know we could learn to talk about things
B:	and I think that's good.
A:	Yeah,
A:	that really is.
A:	It keeps the family in touch with what's going on with each other.
B:	Yeah.
B:	I think,
A:	Right now we eat in front of the T V
A:	but since it's just the two of us, it's
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah
B:	Well that happens to us sometimes too.
A:	Yeah.
B:	But, uh, sometimes if something, uh, is on that they want to watch I leave it on,
B:	but we eat in the kitchen
B:	and their heads are always poking past the door.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	to see what's happening.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Anyway food is, is, uh, a real life-style kind of thing
B:	and some people don't like to do this
B:	but I like to uh, cook with my kids.
A:	Oh, uh-huh.
B:	And if they're going to have other kids over then, then they help.
B:	And we make real simple things, you know, those, oh,
B:	I I don't know if you've ever made them, maybe not since you don't have kids yet, but those Jell-O, uh, gelatin things you can pick up with your fingers, I can't think of what they call it.
A:	Oh, I've seen those in the magazines.
B:	Yeah,
B:	they're so simple.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And the kids love to do that.
B:	Uh, finger food is, is a biggie with them.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And, and like, now one thing I wish I could find a, a better way to do are celery sticks and carrot sticks, because they love to do that
B:	and it's just really hard
B:	and if you have to work with a knife, I don't like that.
A:	Yeah.
B:	So, that's, uh,
B:	they like to eat it,
B:	but it's a hard one to have to, to prepare.
A:	Yeah,
B:	But they like that with the, the cool ranch dressing that goes along with that.
A:	Oh yeah,
A:	yeah,
A:	we like that.
B:	Yeah.
A:	That's good that, that's a good way to get kids to eat vegetables too.
B:	Yeah.
B:	My son's getting to be a, a real good cook
B:	so, uh,
A:	Oh, neat.
B:	sometimes he fixes me breakfast
A:	Oh, wow, that's great
B:	Yeah,
B:	I like it,
B:	I like it a lot.
A:	How old is he?
B:	He's eleven.
A:	Eleven,
A:	wow, that's good.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah,
B:	so
A:	Do you cook like you cook a breakfast every morning
A:	or,
B:	Uh, not every morning, uh,
B:	mostly during the summer it's hit and miss
B:	and, we usually have like, uh, cold cereal or something like that.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Um, during the during wintertime when they're in school, um, then I try to vary it so that we only eat that like a twice a, twice a week or something and then have like, when it's really cold, I even cook oatmeal, Because I like oatmeal
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and the they like it all right.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And, um, then sometimes we do something,
B:	it has to be fast because they're on their way to school,
B:	we do like Eggo waffles and stuff like that,
B:	but.
A:	Oh, uh-huh,
A:	yeah.
B:	Yeah,
B:	so, I try to, uh,
B:	and sometimes we do eggs if I get up early enough to do that.
B:	I used to do them in the microwave,
B:	but they don't like that.
A:	Oh, do they get rubbery,
A:	or,
B:	Um.
A:	I've never tried it.
B:	It it depends.
B:	If you let them cook too long then they'll turn a little bit gray.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	You can tell if they've gone to long because they'll turn a little bit gray
B:	and they will be a little harder,
B:	and I don't like that.
A:	Yeah.
B:	So you have to just let it cook a little bit less than what it says in, if you have a microwave book,
B:	but you cook it a little bit less and then let it sit with a, like a plate over the top.
A:	Oh.
B:	And let it steam.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And then, and then stir it up.
A:	Huh.
B:	Yeah,
B:	an, and that turns out okay.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And it's funny 'cause if I turn them out on to a on to like a plate, for them to take what they want, they don't know I've ever done it in a microwave.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	It's really funny,
B:	it's very deceiving, you know, 'cause if they see it with their eyes they go, uh, I don't like want that, you know,
A:	Yeah
B:	and yet if they don't ever see it, then it's like, oh this tastes okay, you know,
B:	so.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Anyway.
A:	We had,
A:	my grandmother used to do that to us with things like squash.
A:	Everybody would say we don't like squash, we won't eat squash,
A:	so she would make these fancy casseroles and hide it in there, you know,
B:	Yeah
A:	and then we'd go, oh, this is really good.
A:	Okay.
A:	Uh it's not such a bad idea to think about judges, uh, you know, taking the idea of, uh, uh, sentencing into their hands versus, you know, the jury, especially if it's a highly publicized case such as, uh, you've got cases right now that are going on that everybody's very well informed of or have read, uh, certain, uh, things in regards to cases like the Dahlmer case in Milwaukee and stuff.
A:	So it's, it may be an idea to think about, you know, cost.
A:	Trying to find a jury so you can get a jury as far as, uh, they may say they're not biased,
B:	Yeah.
A:	but deep down they are against this person or whatever,
A:	so, uh, I don't think it's such a bad idea to think about.
A:	So,
B:	Right,
B:	that it, that it,
B:	I,
B:	a judge would be more consistent from one case to the next and not not and, and, uh, not depend so much on the, on the emotions of a particular case, but be able to put it in overall perspective.
A:	Exactly.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Well I, I certainly haven't thought much about this
A:	Yeah.
B:	but,
A:	Catches you off guard, doesn't it?
B:	Yes,
B:	yes,
B:	some of them, some of them do
B:	and some of them don't,
B:	but, uh, this one, uh,
B:	I was trying to remember back.
B:	It seems to me that, that, you know, when I studied civics in school or stuff, that this, the juries being involved in the sentencing wasn't, wasn't so much.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And I'm, I'm trying to figure out whether that's, I'm remembering wrong or whether that's a by state.
A:	I didn't think they were either.
A:	I thought the sentencing was done by the judge.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I mean, it's either guilty or not guilty.
B:	Yeah.
B:	And, uh, I, I guess,
B:	and I don't know whether it's by state or whether there's been some supreme, supreme court decision perhaps that said that, uh, that, uh, as part of the trial by the peers that had to include the sentencing or too, or whatever.
A:	Changes.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I,
B:	yeah,
B:	but, I, yeah, I certainly wouldn't be, uh, uh, worried about that.
B:	I guess in terms of the, uh, you know, having a judge do it would seem to me to be more, more fair and and, uh unbiased.
A:	Oh, sure.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah.
B:	Uh, in terms of doing away with the, with the unanimous jury, I guess, I guess I, uh, would be a little more leery of that kind of a change in, in the trial system.
B:	That, that's just a, such a tradition that it's a, that it's got to be a unanimous jury that, uh, I don't know where you'd, where you'd draw the line anywhere else. Uh, you know, uh two-thirds or three-fourths or whatever.
A:	Exactly.
A:	Exactly.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But, uh, and, and, I, I, I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable with just a, just a bare majority.
A:	Exactly.
B:	Uh,
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	yeah.
A:	That's kind of how I, you know,
A:	in certain cases I can see them going, uh, uh, just basically with a judge, guilty or not guilty verdict uh, simply from a judge in highly publicized cases versus the small, uh, maybe, you did a crime that was, uh, burglary or whatever
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
A:	and it goes into the court case or whatever
A:	and it's not highly publicized.
A:	But when you get into these highly publicized cases where everybody knows details whether it's through the NATIONAL ENQUIRER or whatever.
B:	Yeah,
B:	whatever.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Uh, it's the idea that person might initially have this thought, well, jeez this person's guilty no matter what.
A:	I'm not going to listen to the facts or and, and con their way into, uh, getting past the lawyers and getting through that.
B:	Yeah.
A:	But, uh, also there's aspect of cost
A:	and I, I'm not quite sure how much cost it does take for, uh, the judicial system to try and call a jury, whether it's very costly, or if it's something that's not costly or what.
A:	You know, being that I'm not in the, that area I really don't know.
A:	But I wonder if there is some big expense in trying to call a jury to trial and then having to pay whatever they have to pay if there's something that they have to pay.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I know companies have to pay for these people to be off from work. Or at least give them the time off from work.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Uh, whether it's,
A:	I think it's with pay.
A:	If I remember, jury duty is with pay.
B:	Well,
B:	And, and I'm,
B:	I,
B:	I'd,
B:	I know it is, I know it is where I, where I work.
B:	But, I'm not sure that that's, that that's necessarily required. Uh, you know, by law that it has to be paid.
A:	Paid, right.
B:	Uh, I suspect that's a, that's a benefit of a bigger company.
B:	But, but there are certainly some, Some that, some that wouldn't, uh,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Some that may decide not to.
B:	yeah,
A:	Well, I don't know if there's going to be solutions to the U S budget.
B:	Well, now it's in pretty disastrous shape for sure.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	It's only getting worse exponentially it seems.
A:	Yes.
A:	Exactly.
B:	Um,
A:	There's, uh, maybe some short-term things that they can do
A:	and it hurts everybody's pocket, of course,
A:	but, um, I know that state has, uh, cutback, uh, raises for a year to help, uh, the, uh, state financial or whatever you might want to say to get better in a better condition.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	That,
B:	Oh, which state is that?
A:	Uh, State of Minnesota.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	So there's the potential that perhaps, you know, the U S budget might want to take a look at it's, uh, federal employees or, and take a look at saying, well, let's freeze wages.
A:	I mean everybody's doing it so it isn't like, uh, private business has had to do it
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	so it might have to be something that they might consider doing as a that's got to be very short term.
B:	Right.
B:	Right.
A:	And the only other avenue that I can think of is, uh, looking at where they're spending the money and not so much as saying, well, we're spending too much in that area as perhaps looking at what is costing them the money.
A:	As for, for instance, I think you probably remember the military getting caught, um, with toilet seats that cost them four hundred, five hundred dollars.
B:	Yep.
B:	Right.
A:	And it was just,
A:	I mean you can go to K-Mart and buy them for, uh, eight dollars or I think six dollars or whatever for toilet seats,
B:	Yeah.
A:	so. So it gives you idea that,
B:	Yeah.
B:	Definitely
B:	I think that there's probably a lot of waste in defense and in government funded research in the first place.
A:	Sure,
A:	sure.
A:	So,
B:	I mean there was, um, people at Stanford who were soaking the government, you know, using millions of dollars of research money to, uh, for the President to buy beach homes or whatever it was.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And I think that, that maybe more widespread than well, than we'd like to have think.
A:	Than we think.
A:	Sure.
A:	Sure.
B:	But, but then it's something that's hard to enforce too I'm sure.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	It sure is.
A:	The, you know, as far as,
A:	I think there was something with the government official that went on conferences for two days
A:	and actually, uh, the conferences were nothing
A:	but, uh, you know, they're getting paid for this,
A:	and it was something more than just the conferences.
A:	They were using it as eating out, uh,
A:	when you think about people, uh, taking vacations these big government officials taking descendants in congress.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	The rest of them taking these vacations and using the taxpayers' money for that.
B:	Right.
A:	And it's a real big crunch, uh
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	of course, when they get caught then they're, you know, they're guilty of course,
A:	but, uh, during that time I'm sure there's hundreds of, uh, thousands of people that are, uh, spending money that does not belong to them.
A:	So,
B:	Well, that's right.
B:	Uh, I think that, oh, politicians talk a lot about waste
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but I'm not sure that that's really that much of the problem.
A:	Sure.
B:	I mean when you look at something like the Gulf War it cost us God knows how much. You know, at a million dollars, a pop for patriot missiles.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Exactly.
A:	And I don't think, uh, it's ended up being,
A:	I mean it gave people jobs
B:	Yeah.
A:	but I think it also cost, um, quite a bit as far as because after they're done with the war, a lot of things were no longer put to use.
A:	I mean it was kind of like, okay, we'll do this during this point and time
A:	but after that that's, you know, uh they didn't want to do it anymore.
B:	Right.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	So, a lot of things that are saying that they're no longer going to be doing for next wars that are coming up that they did for this one in getting rid of a lot of things.
A:	So I don't know.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Right.
A:	Okay,
A:	well, it was good talking to you
A:	and have a good evening.
B:	Okay
B:	All right.
B:	You too.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	thanks.
B:	Bye-bye.
A:	Bye now.
A:	Okay.
A:	What kind of pet do you have, Gail?
B:	Well, I don't.
B:	I have children
A:	Oh, you have children
B:	I have little children.
B:	Both of my kids are under two so right now we don't have pets,
B:	but we've had lots of them in the past.
A:	Have you?
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh, what have you had?
B:	Well, we had a dog before we moved here.
B:	Uh, and we couldn't bring her with us.
B:	We came from Colorado,
B:	and we've had hamsters and fish and birds.
A:	Oh.
B:	Okay,
B:	I've ,
A:	Well, you're going to have lots of pets with your children growing up.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Well, we had a, a Schnauzer that we lost this summer,
A:	and he was fourteen years old.
A:	And, uh, we've had two Schnauzers
A:	and before that we had all Dachshunds,
A:	and I think my husband wants another Dachshund,
A:	and we're trying to debate because our children are grown
A:	and, and, uh, I don't know whether we really want to be tied down to a you know, another dog.
A:	And we do have a very loving cat that's, you know, kind of our baby.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, and we like pets.
A:	We like them around.
A:	We have grandchildren that run through
A:	and they think we should have a dog,
A:	and that's because they have a Great Dane
B:	Huh.
B:	Yes.
A:	They're just huge
B:	Definitely.
B:	Well, we, you know,
B:	if it, um, if it were just more peaceful, you know, with the little ones, we would definitely have a pet.
B:	I just think it's nice to have around.
B:	We had a cat that had kittens.
B:	So any pet that I get from now on will definitely be spayed or neutered.
A:	Oh, yes,
A:	yes.
B:	Because, uh, I did.
B:	That experience was awful
A:	Yes,
A:	I have never wanted to,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, uh, and our male cats, you know, we had, uh, neutered right away,
B:	to baby very what you doing ?
A:	and, of course, it, he doesn't know it.
A:	He's still out partying.
B:	Oh.
A:	But, um, you know I do think that maybe we'll get a female next time and just had her, have her spayed, you know.
A:	And, uh,
B:	Well, a lot of times now when you buy them from like the S P C A or from the humane societies or whatever, their adoption includes their spaying.
A:	Yes.
A:	Yes,
A:	yes.
B:	So,
A:	Which I think is a good thing.
A:	It just breaks my heart to see these poor little old dogs wandering the streets looking starved
A:	and, you know.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	It, uh,
A:	plus, uh, you know the safety factor and stuff.
A:	Well, we enjoy having pets.
A:	We, uh, you know, I think they're a lot of company,
A:	and, and when my mother lived with us, uh, the cat was really hers
A:	and, and he was kind of wild.
A:	Our, our daughter found her and brought her to us,
A:	and, uh, that cat walked in and walked right up to my mother and jumped up and curled up in her lap.
B:	Oh.
A:	And she was the only one at first that, you know, could really hold him, you know, because he was really skittish.
A:	But it was like he knew you know,
B:	uh-huh.
A:	and he would sleep with her,
A:	and so he was a lot of company to her. You know, and, and just love her.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And he's, cats are usually so independent
A:	but this one you know, he comes up
A:	and he crawls up next to my husband now, you know.
A:	He's,
A:	you know, before the dog died, we have a queen size bed and the dog would sleep on my side,
A:	and the cat would sleep on my husband's side, you know
A:	And when everybody turned we all four of us turned in a row
B:	My husband that's one thing he hated was our cat used to sleep with us.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Our dog wasn't interested in even coming in our room,
B:	but our cat would sleep with us
B:	and he hated that.
A:	Did he?
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	He just thought that they belong,
B:	and when she'd walk on the couch along the back behind his head he hated that.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So, I guess it's probably, probably if we get another animal it probably wouldn't be a cat even though I love cats.
B:	I think it would probably be a dog,
B:	and it would definitely be an outdoor animal.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
A:	I think that's one of the reasons our,
A:	because as I said our, our Schnauzer was old.
A:	And so he was becoming incontinent.
A:	And so then I would just have messes in the house,
A:	and I think that's one of the things that both of us are not wanting to start over with, you know.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Oh, yeah.
A:	And, uh, and it was new carpeting
A:	and, you know, it just really, you know, upset me no end.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh,
B:	Oh, that would, Greg, uh,
B:	my husband's grandparents have a dog
B:	and they just,
B:	it needs to be put to sleep
B:	but it's grandpa's dog,
B:	and, uh, he's really getting too old to take care of it.
B:	But the dog messes all over the carpet
B:	and my daughter is just nine months old
A:	Oh
B:	and so then she crawls on the carpet
B:	and, oh, the smell I mean it's just really awful
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and that's, that's one real drawback,
B:	but you know I guess you'll do just about anything for your pet if you love them enough
A:	Yes,
A:	you will.
A:	You will.
A:	You know, we were trying to decide to, you know, about putting him to sleep.
A:	He was just, you know, he was getting so old and had a, other problems too.
A:	And, and fortunately the decision was just taken away from us which made it a whole lot easier. You know,
A:	and, and again going through that because our, our animals are almost like our kids in some ways, you know,
A:	and, and you grieve just as much over them when they go you know, as you would a child.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, and, you know, our son and, and his wife and our daughter and her husband and the grandkids all say, get a dog, get a dog, you know.
A:	Little thing.
A:	Be quiet,
A:	be quiet.
A:	And I can tell my husband, you know, deep down he, you know, he
A:	Brian in Plano, Texas. How are you doing today?
B:	Hi,
B:	fine,
B:	I'm Nancy.
B:	How are you?
A:	Great, Nancy.
B:	I'm in Plano also
A:	You're in Plano also, huh?
B:	Yes,
B:	we're not too long distance today.
A:	Well, good to hear.
A:	I was just talking to someone the other day from Pennsylvania.
B:	Oh, that was good.
B:	Utah, I've had a couple of,
B:	but that was it.
A:	Really?
B:	Yeah.
A:	All right.
A:	Well, good to hear,
A:	good to hear.
B:	Learned about their basketball team
A:	Which one?
B:	Uh, Jazz.
A:	Oh, yeah.
B:	Yeah.
A:	The Utah Jazz.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah,
A:	they're, they're pretty good.
A:	They've got some good good, some good, uh, good players out there.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Well, you ready for New Year's Eve?
B:	I am.
A:	Good.
A:	Should we, uh, start this so we can,
B:	Okay.
A:	What was your name again?
B:	Nancy.
A:	Nancy, that's right,
B:	Right.
A:	and I'm Brian.
B:	Right.
A:	Just a moment
A:	Okay Nancy, then I guess the, today's subject is benefits in the job other than salary.
B:	Right.
A:	What, uh what do you feel are important to you or other people as, as crucial benefits?
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Well, I'm a little different than other people because I don't have benefits with my job.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I'm a nurse
B:	and I work,
A:	Oh
B:	I float so that I have no benefits except higher pay for doing that.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Right.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So I find that it makes up for what I pay for insurance
B:	and I, I make enough money by the hour to make up for that.
A:	To, to compensate for some of the benefits.
B:	Right.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Oh.
B:	Yeah,
B:	it's cheaper for me to buy insurance by the month than to work staff someplace.
A:	Yes.
B:	And then I have my freedom.
B:	I can work seven days in a row and take a week off or whatever I want to do.
A:	Well, that, that's an excellent,
A:	so actually that is a benefit, uh,
B:	Well, it is to me.
B:	Most people prefer the security of nine to five, and weekends off and knowing that their insurance is paid and their retirement,
A:	Yeah.
B:	and I'm just really not interested in all that.
A:	Right.
A:	Right,
A:	well I guess that's a good point, uh,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I do belong to a, a large corporation
A:	or my, that where I'm currently employed
A:	and there's, uh, there's some different things, uh, one that you've already mentioned is, is health insurance.
A:	I think through our health insurance that I can get better rates as a, through a group plan as opposed to going out and getting health insurance on an individual basis because I had to do that at one time when I wasn't employed with a large corporation
B:	Right.
A:	and that got to be somewhat expensive,
A:	so I I think one of the benefits I, I see is the, uh, is the group, uh, group discount.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Right,
B:	and especially if you have a family.
A:	Yes.
B:	Then I think it makes a big difference.
A:	Yes,
A:	and that's, that's one thing I do have.
B:	Yeah.
A:	If I didn't have a family, I don't think I would have, as, as a male or as a, as an individual of, in this stage of my life,
A:	I don't think I would have insurance, uh, other,
B:	Right.
A:	I don't think I would go through that expense.
A:	One other benefit that you mentioned is the flexible work hours
A:	and in my previous job, I really enjoyed because they had what was called flex schedule where I could go and I could work, uh, nine hour days and have like Friday only work four hours
B:	Oh, yeah.
A:	or I could do, uh, work four days a week at ten hours a day and have a, you know, three day weekend. And make, uh, make my job flexible in that case.
B:	Right.
B:	Could you change that as you felt like it
B:	or did you have to do it the same every week?
A:	Well, basically, yeah
A:	I had to do, that, uh, the same, uh, for about every quarter of the year.
A:	I mean uh, because I was in a, in a position of management I had responsibilities over people that, uh, I needed to make my schedule, uh, so that if I was not there I would have coverage by some other management personnel,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	so, so I, I think that, uh, that was a, that was an excellent benefit that I really enjoyed
B:	Yeah.
A:	and I don't have that in my current operation,
A:	but, uh, you mentioned, uh, flexible work schedule
A:	and that's, that's good.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And, uh, what other benefits do you think are important?
B:	Oh, well, I guess, retirement, that kind of thing which I don't worry much about so
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah,
A:	that's true.
B:	I just prefer to worry about today,
B:	probably not a practical attitude
B:	but that's who I am
B:	so,
A:	Well, and that's an individual thing.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah,
A:	with, uh, with our current, uh, organization, we do have a nice retirement package
A:	and also a, a nice thing that, that we have in our corporation is a, uh, is a profit sharing plan where we can, uh, participate in the, the profits of the company. If we're, you know, if we've been there a while and we're vested, uh, which means that, you know, we have a, an interest, uh, in the company that we can, uh, get some of the benefits of the, either the profit high times or, or in a sense, suffer during the low times
B:	Right.
A:	and, uh, also, uh, in one of my wife's, uh, companies where she worked, they'd had a real nice profit sharing plan that, that,
A:	Okay, uh,
A:	some of the T V shows I like to watch are, uh, mostly evening, evening shows
A:	and, uh, like for instance the one I'm looking forward to, to tonight is TWENTY TWENTY.
A:	I usually watch those prime time programs.
B:	Right.
A:	Uh, I like to watch FORTY-EIGHT HOURS.
A:	Never miss that and, uh, sometimes PRIME TIME LIVE.
A:	Uh, and then the week goes by
A:	and I don't think I ever watch anything else.
A:	You know, the, the Sunday night movies, I watch those kind of things. But, uh, most, but basically a lot of documentary things and, you know, what's going on and that kind of thing.
B:	I I have a few, you know, favorite shows that I try not to miss.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	L A LAW is one of them.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Although this year's, it's a little easier to miss than last year. With the new cast and everything.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah,
A:	it's hard to follow.
B:	Right,
B:	and, uh, I like ROSIE O'NEILL.
A:	Oh, I've never seen that one.
B:	THE TRIALS OF ROSIE O'NEILL with Sharon Gless.
A:	Okay,
A:	yeah.
B:	She,
A:	I've seen a, uh, the previews for that.
B:	It's very good.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But, uh, and then there's a new sitcom on that is, Tim Allen's, uh, what is it, uh, HANDYMAN.
B:	That's not what, uh,
B:	HOME IMPROVEMENT.
A:	Oh, we never miss that,
A:	or we try not to miss that.
B:	It's hysterical, isn't it?
A:	Oh, we think it is, so funny.
B:	Did you catch the Christmas?
A:	Oh, just part of it
B:	I thought it was, you know,
B:	and it had such a good story, too.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Did you see the end of it?
A:	No.
B:	Well, you know, the little boy, the little one was trying to decide if there was a Santa Claus.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	oh, that's right
A:	and the neighbor,
A:	they thought it was the neighbor.
B:	They thought it was the neighbor.
B:	He gave the two doubting Thomases a rubber band and a paper clip.
A:	Yeah.
B:	I thought that was wonderful.
A:	And then, uh, it, it's, it appeared that maybe it probably wasn't the neighbor.
B:	And, uh, on Sunday, used to be on Sunday nights, now I can't figure out where they've moved it.
B:	On our, uh, public television, they had a show at ten thirty that was a computer show.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And it showed the latest, uh, developments from all the computer companies.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	I've never seen that program.
B:	Well, you know, it's,
B:	unless you're really into computers, you and software, you probably wouldn't be interested,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but I don't know,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	it just really gave me kind of an outlook of what was available out there.
A:	Oh.
B:	And, uh, you know, what, they, they covered everything from entertainment to spreadsheets, you know, and then they also, the hardware.
A:	Oh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So you could see what the new developments were and what to look for
B:	and, I enjoyed that.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	It was just a thirty minute show with no commercials.
A:	Oh, okay.
B:	It's public television, course, doesn't have the commercials during the show
B:	so,
A:	Yeah,
A:	right.
B:	And I like the FRUGAL GOURMET.
A:	Oh, I do, too
A:	Oh, I do, too,
A:	but I just seem to, to miss a lot of these programs.
A:	I don't know why.
A:	I just,
A:	if I can catch them, I do. Or if I remember.
B:	Well, there's very few that, you know, my life would stop if I didn't catch.
B:	But, uh, now I do,
B:	before I go to work, I tape my soap opera.
A:	Oh, yeah.
A:	I watch one
A:	and,
B:	Well, I watch two,
B:	but one's a half-hour
B:	and one's an hour
B:	and, and they lead into each other.
A:	Oh.
B:	And that's the BOLD AND THE BEAUTIFUL and AS THE WORLD TURNS.
A:	Oh, okay.
B:	And I've watched the, AS THE WORLD TURNS since I was a little girl
A:	Yeah,
A:	that's been on for years.
B:	So it's just, you know,
B:	it's, it's, something I've done for the last probably twenty-five years.
A:	Oh, and so you get to come home and watch them
B:	Yes,
B:	and I don't have anyone else at home,
B:	so I have freedom to watch whatever I want.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	But I like, I like every, I like the, uh, the information shows
B:	and I like the comedies
B:	and you know, and I, I do like good movies.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I prescribed, subscribe to H B O.
A:	Yeah
A:	well, we,
B:	So I can get some of the movies.
A:	Yeah,
A:	that's a good idea.
A:	We did have H B O,
A:	but it, we just canceled it last week because it seemed like it was so repetitious, you know.
B:	It is.
A:	It's just,
B:	But I don't sleep a whole lot
B:	and I, you know,
B:	at two o'clock in the morning, there isn't anything on regular T V
B:	and,
A:	Oh.
A:	Oh, yes,
A:	if you're up then
B:	and you don't get good reception without cable
B:	and it doesn't cost that much more to have one of the pay channels,
A:	Yeah.
A:	Right.
B:	so that's primarily why I have it right now.
A:	Right.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah.
B:	I, I thought when I got my V C R, I'd probably drop it, you know,
B:	but that was years,
A:	Say you did, uh, starters and bendix springs such as that on an old one.
B:	Yeah,
B:	and, uh, helped my wife replace some carburetors.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Some that, she had to, uh, label everything
A:	She had to label everything.
B:	Yeah
B:	because,
A:	What was she driving?
B:	It was a Cadillac.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And they, uh, well, they quit making those, the quieter jet carburetor
B:	and they quit making it.
A:	Yeah.
B:	They rebuilt it
B:	and it never did, never did run right again.
A:	Yeah,
A:	quad not really easy to get rebuilt just right.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Uh, and like, what were you replacing the starters and bendix on?
B:	Uh, a Maverick and also, uh, a Chrysler station wagon before that.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Did you replace just the, uh, bendix on the Chrysler station wagon or the whole starter?
B:	Uh, the,
B:	I'm replacing the, two or three starters on the Chrysler.
A:	Yeah.
B:	They,
A:	The starters are kind of fragile.
B:	Yeah
B:	and the,
A:	Especially if you need a tune-up.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	They kept saying that the that's what Chryslers did, is they wore out starters.
A:	Yeah,
A:	well, if they start real easy, you know, you just hit the key
A:	and it starts up
B:	Yeah.
A:	and when it's properly tuned up, that starter will last for a long time.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	See, they built that starter so it would fit every V eight and all the slant sixes that they've built in like thirty-five years.
B:	Right.
A:	They all take the exact same starter.
A:	They'll interchange completely.
A:	I mean completely.
A:	One starter will fit all of them.
A:	So they've got a whole lot of torque,
A:	but to do that, they did it,
A:	use an underdrive system,
A:	but they geared it down so the motor spins really fast so it's got, to spin for very long,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	it's kind of tough on the bushings.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Usually what goes is the bushings.
B:	Right.
A:	You take a little time, replace the bushings, you still got a perfectly good starter.
A:	But, uh, most places don't put, don't rebuild them with, with with good enough bushings.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	So it's, you know,
A:	after you get rebuilt one, you have a tendency to go through them pretty quickly, especially if you need a tune-up.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Anyway, what are you driving now?
B:	Uh, my Chrysler van
B:	and it's, it's pretty maintenance free, you know,
B:	and, uh, at the beginning of the year last year and drove a Chevrolet Cavalier station wagon
B:	and it didn't give me any trouble at all.
A:	That's good.
B:	Yeah.
A:	It was a late model,
A:	is that Chrysler van?
B:	It's a eighty-seven.
A:	Yeah,
A:	one of the little mini vans?
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	yeah.
B:	Is a,
A:	Do you like the way it rides and stuff?
B:	Uh, rides or runs?
A:	Rides rough?
B:	It,
B:	yeah,
B:	well, yeah,
B:	it rides, rides rough,
B:	it runs good.
A:	Yeah.
B:	You know, I kind of,
B:	it took me a while to get used to a four cylinder engine.
A:	Yeah.
B:	You have to kind of wait for it, especially when you get on the highway.
A:	Yeah,
A:	right now, without getting some of the sportier models, uh, the four cylinders aren't real peppy.
B:	Yeah.
A:	But, uh, they're starting to change that out in the last couple of years, too.
B:	You driven American cars all,
A:	Uh, yeah,
A:	I've driven one uh,
A:	I drove a Volkswagen Beetle for a while, about a month.
A:	Uh, in a month I think I put, uh, three oil coolers on it.
A:	Uh, every time I turned around I was having trouble with it.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Everything else I ever owned was American built. Uh, mostly older cars.
A:	Uh, I've been a mechanic,
A:	well, I worked, starting working my father's service station when I was about, uh, twelve.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	So, I've been around cars a lot, but, uh, driven a lot of old Pontiacs.
A:	My first three cars were, uh, seventy model Pontiacs. A G T O and a Bonneville and a station wagon.
A:	I had a couple of Chryslers.
A:	Had a super B for a while with a four forty in it.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	It was a lot of fun.
A:	But, uh,
B:	Not much gas mileage, though.
A:	I don't know,
A:	gas mileage wasn't too bad.
A:	It got about seventeen.
B:	Oh, wow.
A:	Well, till you got crazy with it.
A:	You know, you get the four barrel all worked up
A:	and suddenly it, it, it drops off fast,
A:	but long as you didn't spin the tires too much or, or spend too much time with the secondaries kicked in it, it didn't do too bad on gas.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Didn't have to work too hard to move the car around.
B:	Now, do you think since they started with electronic ignition that it improves the way the car runs?
A:	Oh, yeah,
A:	yeah,
A:	definitely.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah,
A:	the,
A:	my last G M car was a seventy Chevy station wagon
A:	and it still had the points and condenser in it.
A:	When I rebuilt the engine on that, about a hundred and thirty thousand on the car.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I, uh, pulled that old points distributor out and got, an H E I distributor, electronic distributor put into it.
A:	Well, I really enjoy reading the newspaper,
A:	we get the daily, uh, DALLAS MORNING NEWS
A:	and I try to look at it.
A:	If I get busy I don't get a chance to pick it up, like this week I noticed several copies have been haven't been touched
A:	but
B:	Well, do you have time to read the paper in the morning?
A:	Well, not in the morning,
A:	but, uh, if the,
A:	well, I have two children
A:	and if they, uh, go out to play or something I like to keep my eye on them so I'll, you know, maybe go outside and read the paper while they're playing or sit in a chair by the window or something.
B:	You know, a lot, a lot of people don't take newspapers at all.
B:	We, we took the MORNING NEWS for a while,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and then, uh, well, we've been taking the TIMES HERALD for ages
B:	and then, uh, dog just ran off with my shoe, that's off the subject, went outside, picked it up and ran off.
B:	Anyway, uh, and then we switched the MORNING NEWS
B:	but we found we couldn't read enough of it
B:	and by the time I got home and had time to, to read some,
B:	but, but I guess the, the issue is, uh, beside the newspaper, do you take any news magazines?
A:	Well, we, I don't take, like TIME, or NEWSWEEK or anything like that,
A:	but I do like to watch, uh, C N N.
A:	I have several chores and things to do,
A:	so it comes on at, like the nine o'clock p m
A:	and so I will turn that on while I'm doing some work
A:	and I can hear the news, not have to sit right down and listen to it.
B:	Did, did you, did you hear what Schwartzkopf had to say about, uh, Pete Arnett, and, uh, the, the news coverage?
A:	Well, he didn't have too good of opinion of it,
A:	no,
A:	I mean yes I did hear that
A:	and so, uh, I do try to keep that in mind that whenever you're reading a paper it usually has a particular flavor.
B:	Well any, you know, TIME magazine and even the news that,
B:	sometimes that,
B:	that's why I like some diversity the idea that, I, we have TIME which, which we take from time to time
B:	and we,
B:	the problem is they call up and make this deal, you know,
B:	and, well we're taking that
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, and we also hit the Garland, GARLAND DAILY NEWS,
B:	I guess it's, it comes out sporadically, like, twice a week or
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but I think what's interesting is that if you're, that there, uh, that as difficult as it is, or as, as much as they try, they put some bias,
B:	I had the chance to hear Tracy Rowlett speak to a group
B:	and it was interesting that they think that they're basically impartial.
A:	Um.
B:	And that,
B:	but, and, and, you know, people accuse them of controlling the news he says, you know, we don't control the news we just report it the way we, the way it is.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And,
A:	Well, I wouldn't think I would really say that that's not true, because uh, it seems like certain newspapers always espouse certain candidates,
B:	Yes.
A:	and, so, uh, news stations always tell the story from a certain angle
A:	and that's why it's a good idea to get a wide variety of coverage so that you get a lot of different opinions.
A:	You may never get the truth,
A:	but you'll have a variety to choose from.
B:	Yeah,
B:	and I, I thought that was particularly interesting in the, the Gulf War, that there were pieces of information that, that were apparently, uh, leaked just as a, as, as, uh, a ploy.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Which was, uh,
B:	I, I find that fascinating that, uh,
A:	Yeah,
A:	I do, too.
A:	Do you ever listen to the radio
A:	or any,
B:	I listen to K R L D, and, uh, uh, K L I F, the news talk radio.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And I actually listen to C N N radio.
B:	Do you know it was on radio now?
A:	No,
A:	I don't.
B:	It's on eleven ninety.
A:	Um. I really, uh, have gotten out of the habit of listening to the radio from any kind of, even music
A:	and, uh,
B:	Well, when I go to work I listen.
A:	Yeah,
A:	my husband does
A:	and it's how come he usually calls me sometimes, and says, oh, I just heard on the news that such and such happened, you know, if it's something really interesting
A:	and and then I'll know to, to keep an eye out for it,
B:	Yeah.
A:	but I've got out of the habit of listening to the radio.
B:	Well, with, with your, you know,
B:	if you're around the home, though and, and, and can watch T V and read the paper, the problem is, is that about twenty minutes of news radio, or thirty minutes is
B:	and then they start repeating everything.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, and so it's kind of a, oh,
B:	that's what's interesting is the C N N, uh,
B:	I don't think, I'm trying to think if it's much local.
B:	I listen to a little of that
B:	and I listen to a little of ninety point one.
B:	I, I'm, I'm inveterate switcher.
A:	Uh-huh
B:	That and ninety-eight point seven, I'm eclectic approach.
A:	Do you have a particular local channel that you watch?
B:	Well, I watch channel five
B:	but that has to be,
B:	that's another bias.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	That has to do with the weather reporting.
B:	I'm not sure that,
B:	actually I think channel eight is probably,
B:	but I know Dave Fox,
B:	he goes to our church
B:	so,
A:	Um. Well I am, we're fairly new to the area
A:	and so we're still shopping for a favorite channel.
B:	Well the, Channel eight when they came here thirteen, fourteen years ago, Dave Fox and Tracy Rowlett came together, uh, from Oklahoma City
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and apparently channel eight was way down
B:	and now they have turned it all around and done a pretty remarkable job
B:	and then they've been some people move around
B:	and, uh, John Chriswell is, anyway, the,
B:	I, I don't know,
B:	do you, do you, do you seem to,
B:	can you tell much difference between the local radio, T V stations?
A:	Well, I really think so.
A:	I noticed on channel eight that there's all of the, uh, anchors, are seem to be like white Anglo Saxon protestant type people
A:	and they all seem to be, you know, fairly similar
A:	I don't recall that they have any female anchors
A:	and I like different, I like the anchors to be different kinds of people.
B:	I think that adds to the diversity,
B:	I think that, uh, I like that.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh, there, I know, you know, John Wylie Price,
B:	I don't know if you kept up,
B:	but he's been protesting,
A:	Yes
A:	I have
A:	and, uh, I prefer you know to have a little bit of variety like that because I think you're, you're more likely to get,
B:	Yeah,
B:	and I think he has legitimate argument.
B:	I mean you can, uh,
B:	I, I, I grew up in Alabama
B:	and so I, I have some prejudices.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But I think that, I think that, that from a, a justice standpoint, because we have the option of not watching that station.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh, I'm not sure I, I'm totally in favor of affirmative action in some of the programs
B:	but I think that, uh, in some cases this should be some real opportunity and, and some diversity, and and this kind of thing
A:	Yeah.
B:	and I think that, Dallas, it turns out, though from what I understand, has quite good,
B:	I occasionally go to Saint Louis.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, uh, there for a few days and watch the news and, and think Dallas really does have, have quite good news.
B:	I think channel eight is the number one, uh, A B C affiliate in the U S.
B:	I think Tracy Rowlett was saying that he,
A:	Oh, really?
B:	Course he pumping his own
A:	Well, we, you know,
A:	like all of the stations seem to be pretty good,
A:	it's just we haven't found one that we've snuggled into.
B:	Where'd you move from?
A:	Houston.
A:	So we had a, a favorite,
A:	or I did, have a favorite channel that I usually tuned into for local news.
A:	I guess because you get use to, you like the anchors,
B:	Yeah.
A:	and you feel comfortable with them
A:	and,
B:	It is interesting though,
B:	it becomes a little of personality.
B:	In fact, the, the guy that was on, the weatherman on channel eight worked for me, oh, long time ago, twenty years or so, even longer than that. Twenty-one, twenty-three years ago or so, twenty-four, anyway long time ago
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, and shortly after I got, we got here fourteen years ago
B:	and, uh, they had, they had fired him, uh, because he was too
B:	anyway, didn't, he didn't have the personality, and wasn't drawing the crowds
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and that's interesting.
B:	That's, that's what the T V stations do.
B:	they're trying to get ratings.
A:	That's true.
B:	And I think, if we remember that, that they're out after the ratings.
A:	Their job.
A:	That's true.
A:	So that really effects how they report the news.
B:	Well, it's like the, the Dale Hansen on channel eight is a, sometimes a little too cutesy
B:	but, I wonder if we're coming up on ten minutes.
A:	Is he the sports,
B:	Have you talked, have you been on the conversation when they beeped you at ten minutes?
A:	Yeah,
A:	I guess it is time to close now, so I can run go help put the kids to bed.
B:	Okay,
B:	well good talking to you.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Goodnight.
A:	Bye-bye.
B:	No,
B:	no,
B:	I work there as a temporary.
A:	Oh, really.
B:	But, are you at T I?
A:	Oh yeah.
B:	So you have to do the random drug testing.
A:	Oh, yeah,
A:	yeah,
A:	yeah.
A:	In fact with me, this is, it's not much to talk about,
A:	I'm so much for it.
A:	I don't really have much to comment about it.
A:	There've been some interesting subject that they've called about.
A:	How many times have you called,
A:	or have you been participating in this?
B:	Oh, about ten or eleven calls.
A:	Oh, you got ten,
A:	well you, you've passed me up.
B:	Right.
A:	This is about six times.
B:	Oh.
B:	As contract person we have to do random drug testing, too.
A:	Yeah.
B:	It doesn't bother me.
B:	I don't feel like it's really a violation of privacy or anything.
A:	No,
A:	I think it's good.
A:	In fact, I don't know what the statistics were,
A:	but I think that they were surprised to find it so low.
A:	I think they were expecting to find, uh, like the national average at T I.
A:	And I think it was tremendously down.
B:	As far as the number of drug users, you mean?
A:	Yeah
B:	Huh.
A:	as far as the number of people they actually found that were drug users.
A:	But I think that on when I was at T I of course, we had all the information before they started.
B:	Right.
A:	And they said that a certain number of people that the heavy drug users would either quit or go in rehabilitation programs.
A:	And I think that's what helps, you know, that in the warning that you have a drug program, the people that are worried about it or are taking drugs, actually go
A:	and then usually a lot of them partake in some of the benefits of rehabilitation and everything.
B:	Right,
B:	yeah,
B:	so that's real beneficial for the company and the employee.
A:	Yeah,
A:	and our numbers have been way down.
A:	I don't know what they were.
B:	When I worked for the temporary agency as a permanent person,
B:	and so we had,
B:	when we sent temporaries to T I, we had to have their drug tested.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And we did have a couple of cases where we really, the person said that they hadn't used anything,
B:	and their test came back positive,
B:	and normally we didn't retest them.
B:	But there were a couple of people that we really thought that they were telling the truth
B:	and we retested them like the next day,
B:	and they came back negative the second time.
A:	Oh, really.
B:	So that, that's the only thing, I think, that might be a little bit of a problem.
A:	Oh, you're,
A:	that's a good point,
A:	but at T I they, before they had the testing, I've forgotten, seems like it's a year ago September, something like that, they told us that the agency that did it was the one that did it for the government.
A:	And, of course, that's critical, just as the point that you brought up that whoever does your testing's got to be, you know, have a lot of quality control, that they keep track of everything.
A:	They don't make mistakes.
A:	That would be terribly embarrassing for someone to really come back positive
B:	Right.
A:	and they were not.
A:	And I haven't heard of any,
A:	now I'm not in personnel or anything.
B:	Yeah.
A:	But, uh, they say that there, it's almost down to zero where people come back and say they are positive and they're not.
A:	In other words, there's very few mistakes,
A:	and that, of course, has got to be critical.
A:	It's got to be, if you have a drug testing program,
A:	it's got to be with a very, very good agency.
A:	You don't just have some local group do it.
A:	It's got to be a highly qualified agency.
B:	Right,
B:	yeah,
B:	not just some doctor's office somewhere.
A:	No,
A:	you don't want to do that.
A:	It's got to be a laboratory that does quality control and double check.
A:	And I think that T I is latched themselves up with an established group.
A:	And that would be good for any company that does it, and not to have just a very casual thing.
A:	It's got to be with a, you know, first class, totally independent agency. Not local of course.
A:	Ours, I think, well I think it was in the south somewhere,
A:	but it wasn't even in Dallas, you know, the one that did us.
B:	Oh really.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Huh. Do they have a policy where they counsel people if they come back positive,
B:	or do they fire them right away.
A:	Oh, no.
A:	They're not fired.
A:	They are, they have one chance to then go in a program.
A:	You come back positive, you have one chance to go in, and go into, they have a lot of, uh, rehabilitation, both for alcohol and for drug use,
A:	and they have, uh, a lot of, uh, they have an agency where you can go for personal problems, financial or whatever.
B:	Right.
A:	And so they, they, they don't,
A:	no,
A:	it's not firing first.
A:	It's, uh, definitely trying to encourage people to rehabilitate.
A:	In fact, again, before you go, you know, that's why I said, when they first started it, they had a rehabilitation program in effect that said if you worried about this and you may have taken drugs, go ahead and get rehabilitated first,
A:	and they won't say anything about it.
B:	Right.
B:	I think that's really good.
A:	Oh sure.
B:	I know some places just fire people on the spot if they come back positive or something.
A:	Oh yeah,
A:	no,
A:	that's not right.
A:	It's really an illness, or whatever you want to say that it is.
A:	You know, it's a weakness and all,
A:	and who, all of us have weaknesses of one kind or another.
A:	And I think that those people that have that and however they got into it,
A:	I have children,
A:	I always worry about the, the classical thing that you see on T V, where the drug pushers give it to the kids for free, you know, and get them sucked in,
A:	and then they sell it to them.
A:	You know the classical thing is to give it away.
B:	Right.
A:	I always worry about my teenage daughters going to some party
A:	and they slip it to them.
A:	I don't know,
A:	I don't even have that much knowledge to know whether that would get them addicted or not, you know.
A:	That's a real worry.
B:	Yeah,
B:	some of the stories you read about cocaine, that's like people try it one time and they're addicted.
B:	My husband is a counselor,
B:	and he works, mostly with adolescents.
A:	Oh, you know a lot about that.
B:	So yeah,
B:	I hear a lot of horror stories about things like that.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But most of the time it's they get into the wrong crowd first,
B:	and then they start a drug problem.
A:	Yeah.
B:	It's usually not a one time accidental thing, I don't think.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I know,
A:	I'm glad of that.
A:	And I have, knock wood, pretty good luck, or very good luck with my daughters on so far,
A:	that's my conference call,
A:	I have one daughter still at home.
A:	One's at U T
A:	and one's at home, gets dozen calls a night.
B:	Oh, well I'll let you go if you want to go ahead and take that,
A:	No,
A:	no,
A:	I don't care about that,
A:	she'll be on the phone all night.
B:	Yeah,
B:	it seems if you watch what kind of crowd that start running around with and kind of keep up with who their friends are that's best way to avoid trouble, from what I can gather.
A:	Right.
A:	Do you have children?
B:	No
B:	not yet,
B:	we're expecting a baby in July,
A:	Oh, great,
B:	so we're starting.
A:	Fantastic experience.
A:	I've got two, as I said, I've at U T now in Austin, and one at home,
A:	and I always say that I've learned so much more from them than I ever taught them.
B:	Yeah.
A:	It's a fantastic experience.
B:	Oh, we're really excited about it.
A:	Oh yeah.
B:	You know, one thing my husband believes is if you suspect your kids are having any kind of problems, he believes you should take your kids in for a random testing, like on a Saturday morning, if they've been out at a party Friday night.
A:	Yeah.
B:	If you're not too sure what's going on, he tells parents all the time, haul them into the doctor's office and get them checked.
A:	The key thing that I think, that we try to do, is that bring all the friends over here.
A:	Have our house as a place where they can come at any time, so that you always see their friends rather than make them not welcome
B:	Right.
A:	and they're always over in someone else's house.
A:	So our, we've been lucky that our house is usually the place where the kids could come, you know.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	yeah,
B:	I think that's a really good thing to encourage.
A:	And then you can keep an eye, you can make judgments and make comments or whatever you want.
A:	But at least you see what's going on,
A:	and you always have your house welcome, then your children think that, you know, you're cool parents and all that.
B:	Right
A:	Well good luck with your expected baby there.
B:	Oh well, thanks.
A:	My wife was yelling, was talking in my ear,
A:	she said, reminded me to say that they're very cheap until they get to start driving.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And we have one, of course, I say, in college driving. And one going to drive this summer,
A:	so kids are, cost you practically nothing, because you always get so many things from your relatives and everything.
A:	But you wait until they go and get a car, insurance, that's when they get expensive.
A:	As they get older you know, they cost practically nothing from one to five,
B:	Yeah.
A:	and then slowly but surely starts to creep up when they start to take lessons,
A:	but it's well worth it and everything.
B:	Yeah,
B:	uh, yeah,
B:	I think it'll be neat.
A:	Be a, be a great experience really.
A:	You still there?
A:	Okay,
A:	I thought I was cut off there.
A:	You know, I don't have much to say about drug testing.
B:	No,
B:	I can't think of anything else to say about that either.
A:	So you've done this ten times?
B:	Yeah.
A:	Did you get the booklet on how to get the gifts and all?
B:	No,
B:	I don't work for T I,
B:	so I get cash.
A:	Oh, okay.
A:	I didn't know what they were going to do.
A:	They sent us a little booklet,
A:	I just got it a week or so ago saying, you know, so many calls will be something a prize and everything.
B:	Right.
A:	Well that great.
A:	Well what kind of cash?
A:	I've forgotten what they going to do.
B:	Hm.
A:	Was it five dollars a call?
B:	Yeah,
B:	five dollars a call.
A:	Well, hope they follow through and everything.
B:	Well technically we're not supposed to talk about the phone calls while we're on them
B:	so I guess we better get off.
A:	Right,
A:	yeah,
B:	It was good talking to you.
A:	Alright.
A:	Bye-bye now.
B:	Bye.
A:	Well, Wayne, I've never done any, uh, auto repairs myself at all.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I mean, I may have screwed in a little screw that looked like it was falling out on the door or something
A:	but, uh, I personally haven't done anything.
A:	Maybe I've, uh, changed wiper blades or something
A:	but I have noticed since, uh, I got married that my husband, he hates to do auto repairs,
A:	but he would rather do them himself than, than to pay someone else.
A:	I guess, he can't make himself pay someone to do the repairs when he knows, he knows how to do it,
A:	and he'll do it.
A:	So, he, he hates the time that he takes,
A:	but he has changed, um, the brakes
A:	and he has done all of the tune-ups
A:	and the like that
A:	and recently he changed the steering mechanism in the car.
A:	I was really impressed with that
A:	We had to have it to get the car inspected,
A:	it wouldn't pass inspection
A:	and, and so, he priced around
A:	and everyone wanted several hundred dollars for it
A:	so, he thought, well, I can get one in a junkyard for like fifty dollars, which he did
A:	and then, he did it
A:	and, so, I guess, uh, he's been pretty good about keeping our cars up,
A:	what, uh, what's your experience been like?
B:	Well, I, uh, I have a long experience with cars.
B:	I, uh, when I was younger, uh, my brother had a Corvette
B:	and I bought a Corvette
B:	and when you have a Corvette you more or less do all the work
B:	and I've done everything from build the motor from the, uh, you know, the bare block on up.
B:	And, I, I'm the same way as your husband is when it comes to my car, I hate to go pay somebody good money, you know,
B:	I hate to pay somebody twenty-five dollars on hour for something I can do myself.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	It just, to me it makes absolutely no economic sense to do that.
A:	Right.
B:	In fact, I, um, just this past weekend put new plugs in both, uh, my car an my wife's car.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And so, I, uh, I pretty much try to troubleshoot and do everything I can do myself
B:	but I've, I've gotten to the point in my life, um, you know, I just crept over forty years old, where I don't want to crawl underneath the car anymore
A:	That makes sense.
B:	I mean it's, um, I don't know whether I've, I've just reached a point, you know,
B:	it's, it's real rough in the winter time.
A:	Huh, yes.
B:	And, uh, so, I try to make sure that, uh, by the time fall runs around, because we actually have winters here on the east coast, um, that, uh, I have, you know, the car's in pretty good shape enough to last through the winter
A:	Right
B:	and, uh, then springtime I usually end up giving them, the, uh, a tune-up and make sure that they're running well,
B:	and, uh, you know, it's like I had the muffler go out on my, on my car, shortly before it was required to go,
B:	in Maryland they have, uh, emission tests.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And you're required to get your car and go through the emission test,
B:	well, my muffler, of course, starting going bad right before I was supposed to go to the emission test,
B:	so. You know, I had to do that job,
B:	and of course, that was back in December when it's nice and cold outside
A:	Yes,
A:	I'm sure it was.
B:	But the thing was that I could do the job myself,
B:	I mean, the parts cost me, oh, roughly a hundred dollars.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Um, if I'd taken it someplace and have it done it was going to be three hundred twenty-five.
A:	Right.
B:	Now like who's got that extra two and a quarter
B:	I know I don't.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Well, that's exactly the way he feels is that, he really hates to spend the time,
A:	it takes a lot of time
A:	if he, if he thinks it's going to be two hours, it's four if, you know, whatever, it always takes him twice as long.
A:	But then when he's finished he's, he always says, well, now you owe me three hundred dollars
A:	And then he thinks that he has the money that, that he can spend on something
A:	and he hasn't given it to someone else.
B:	Yeah.
A:	So, he gets some satisfaction out of that although, generally I think he, he does not look forward to or anticipate,
A:	there's some people that enjoy tinkering around on cars.
A:	There's a lot of people
A:	and he just isn't one of them.
B:	Yeah.
B:	I, uh, I don't mind it,
B:	um, there was a time when I had my Corvette,
B:	I mean, of course, I loved it, um,
B:	but if, you know,
B:	I've got other interests now
B:	and there's a lot, other more important things I think I should be doing with my time.
B:	And I have the same problem,
B:	I mean, you can tell him from me
B:	but it doesn't matter,
B:	I mean, I've, I've had greasy fingernails for years
B:	And it still takes me twice as long as I think it's going to take to do the job,
A:	Yeah.
B:	so, but, I think the difference is that, uh, when you own the car you take more care in what you're doing,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and you want to make sure that it's done right and put back together right,
B:	and, you know, I've, I've in the past I've had brake jobs done by someone that when I went back and looked at it some months later I'd find something drastically wrong with it, you know, like a spring that was put in incorrectly which could have resulted in brakes failing and me having an accident. You know, those kind of things,
A:	Right.
A:	Right.
B:	and when you have a vehicle that's being used by, you know, other members of your family, you know, you don't want that kind of a situation to come up.
A:	No.
B:	And it's very, very difficult to find a mechanic these days that you can trust.
B:	I only have one guy that I know that I trust to work on my car.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, uh, he's about sixty miles from here.
B:	And so, it,
B:	and if I have something that's really major that I can't handle or feel I don't have the time to handle, I'll take it to him to do it.
A:	Right,
A:	you know, that it's, uh , really has a bad reputation is to feel that, that people in general feel and have, have rightly so, I think been cheated many times,
A:	and, um, and well, I know once when we had a,
A:	we usually inspection time we find out there's something wrong with our car
A:	but, um, once the muffler needed to be changed
A:	and, uh, he had looked at him himself
A:	and, but we saw a commercial for like fourteen or twenty dollars or something for a change
A:	he said, that's really, really good
A:	so, he went in
A:	and, uh, but when they quoted him a price they really wanted fifty or something.
A:	Anyway, but the car that the muffler people had, um, my, at least my husband felt that they had damaged the muffler further, you know,
A:	they had punctured a big hole in it when it really could have just been patched or whatever,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and so, since then, I don't think he's ever even seriously considered a, you know, any kind of job he thought he could do himself.
A:	But, I know from his childhood, he says that his father always buys and restores cars just as entertainment, I guess.
A:	And, um, so, Kelly growing up, he, he felt like that, that was a good way on Saturday's that he developed a good relationship with his father.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And so, he used, they used car repairs kind of as a way to have a, you know, something that they did together,
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah.
A:	and he thought that turned out pretty good because it, you know, it helped him to understand and be functional now,
A:	and it helped him to have a close relationship,
A:	so, that's one, one way he looked at it.
B:	Yeah.
B:	that's probably, uh, uh, something that, uh, is, is you know, is good for both of them.
B:	I know that, uh, my older son I could never get him interested in cars
B:	and I couldn't, you know,
B:	I just like, you know,
B:	you sure you're a boy,
B:	I mean, your not interested in cars,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I mean he, he just would not have anything to do with them.
B:	And, uh, later on and like when he, you know, grew up, got out of the house, got his own car, um, he didn't know how to do anything to it. I mean, absolutely nothing.
B:	I mean, he couldn't even check the oil.
B:	I mean, that's, that's how uninformed he was and disinterested.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, I guess there are some people out there like that, um, you know,
B:	I always thought maybe, you know, if he took more of an interest and, you know, what I was doing
B:	and maybe we could have communicated better.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But, uh, yeah,
B:	I, I think that's great.
A:	Yeah,
A:	it didn't always work.
A:	Well, I felt, um, I feel like I could myself, do some things but, that I have enough responsibility that if I have someone like my father when I was living at home, and my husband, that's willing to do it, I go ahead and let them do it.
A:	I'm, I'm happy to let them run the cars because I have so, many other responsibilities that, um,
A:	so, I haven't tried to do a lot myself.
B:	Uh, I trained my, uh, my wife in the in, in doing things,
B:	in fact, uh, when I, uh, first transferred down to, uh, Texas Instruments back in nineteen eighty-seven, um, uh, when I left here, uh, she had to change a set of plugs on the car because she was up here for a month or so, after I was
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, uh, it was an interesting experience for her.
B:	I mean, she'd always assisted me and done some other things
B:	but for her to actually get in there and do it herself it was, uh, it was something, a little different.
A:	It's a good experience,
A:	it helps you feel, I think comfortable with your car and feel like, it's not so, scary if, um, your driving it and you might get stranded somewhere that you might, you think, well, I've, I've been under that hood
A:	and I know what's going on
A:	but,
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah,
B:	I think it's important that everyone know, you know, basically how, how the darn engine works,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	it helps you figure out what's wrong with it, you know,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I've, I've been out with my sister before when, you know, her car died on the highway
B:	and I happened to be with her and managed to get her to the other side of the road because it was dark and all,
B:	Women?
A:	Yeah,
A:	the changing roles of women, how roles changed
A:	and what do you see coming in the future.
B:	Oh, okay,
B:	that's not a broad enough topic
A:	Okay,
A:	yeah.
A:	Sounds good.
B:	I'm ready when you are.
A:	Okay,
A:	hold on.
B:	Okay.
A:	Are you there?
B:	Yeah,
B:	I'm here.
A:	Oh my goodness,
A:	I can't believe I did that.
A:	Okay,
A:	hold on.
B:	That's okay.
A:	Okay, um,
A:	I.
B:	Okay,
B:	um, I don't know,
B:	are you in your thirties,
B:	or,
A:	No,
A:	I, I'm twenty-three.
B:	Oh, okay.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Well then I can tell you that roles have changed.
B:	I'm thirty-eight
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	and they changed quite a bit.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Um, I,
B:	this was my twentieth high school reunion, in Chicago.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And basically, um, the choices, I mean, you know,
B:	you probably heard that in the fifties women liked to stay home and all that.
A:	Right,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	That's kind of, um, the opposite of what it was in the sixties and early seventies.
A:	Right.
B:	It was sort of just to um, go protest,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, uh, just, everybody be damned and live with some one,
B:	and, you know,  social morals were a little bit lacking.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	I know that,
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	I know that, uh, in, in the early seventies, uh, I think women were the first people to, to make a move as far as individuals.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Um, uh, before that a lot of people that wanted to protest were large groups like, uh, black people, or, you know, just large, large groups of people,
A:	but, but the,
B:	Right
B:	it was more, it was more civil rights oriented, or race oriented rather than gender based,
A:	Right,
B:	yeah.
A:	and I think, I think the women's movement kind of brought in individual lives where you had women's movements
A:	and you had gay movements,  and just the smaller groups of people.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	It did.
A:	And I think since then is, is when a lot of the women's roles have started to change.
B:	It did
B:	and some of the other stuff that, um, I think that changed it, you, uh, when I first got out of college fifteen years ago, they were always saying well, if you, if you were assertive you were a libber,
B:	or you were aggressive not assertive and independent.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And in terms of the corporate community, I've seen a big change in terms of men finally being quote, unquote, used to women,  who are in, uh, controlling positions,  as higher, you know, corporate, in the corporate hierarchy.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Exactly.
A:	Uh-huh
B:	So I think that's good.
A:	I think that, uh, you know, you can just look at home life and see, I've been talking to a lot of people about education and things,  and, and what, what, what affects the school system
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and I think that a big thing that effects it is that the mother is not home anymore,  um, like she used to be.
B:	Right.
A:	She used to be kind of a, kind of a, a rock, you know,  in the house,
B:	The mainstay,
B:	yeah.
A:	yeah.
A:	And, uh, since, since everyone is going out and working now, whether it be because of finances or just the economy,  uh, the mother's not there anymore
B:	and restructuring, stepfamilies,
B:	yeah.
A:	and the children are,
A:	I think, I think a lot of society is suffering.
A:	Not to say that women shouldn't, you know, go out and do what they want to do
A:	but I think that, um,  society's really going to have to get used to it.
B:	Right.
A:	And they're not quite used to it yet
A:	and that's I,
B:	The schools or the the schools or the parents,
B:	yeah.
A:	Yes,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	Um, I'm trying to think of what else.
B:	I have a lot of opinions on this except all of a sudden I went blank
B:	A lot of the things, um, the demographics do,
B:	I mean, there are more,
B:	I don't have the numbers in my head right now,
B:	but, a lot of the things that brought feminism, I mean there are just more women in, in, in the demographics, just generally,  in the United States, in terms of being,
A:	Right,
A:	uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I mean, I'm the typical baby boomer,
B:	I hate that term,
A:	Oh, yeah.
B:	but in terms of women,  women going out, I mean twenty-three, I remember that.
A:	Yeah.
B:	What's it like to be twenty-three as a woman today,
B:	I mean, when I was twenty-three the issues were either go to graduate school or get married,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	um, those were the general issues.
A:	Speaking of getting married, I was talking to someone yesterday on this, on the project,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and, uh, uh, we were talking about child care
A:	and he asked me if I had any kids.
A:	He was about forty or fifty years old
A:	and I said no, I'm just twenty,
B:	He was ancient,
B:	yeah.
A:	and I said no, I'm just twenty-three,  you know, because I don't think of myself as needing to have children
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but the first thing he says is, well don't you miss that part of your life.
A:	And I just,
A:	I,
A:	my, my mind just went,
B:	You didn't know what you're going to be missing.
A:	I went, what. You know,
A:	because it it really didn't, doesn't even occur to me right now to have children,
B:	I don't have any either
B:	and I've been a married for eleven years,
B:	so.
A:	Yeah,
A:	and I, it just, you know,
A:	I think that I'll probably have children when I'm about thirty, thirty-five, something like,  just because, I'm not sure if it's just, if it's just me, or, or women in general that are twenty-three right now, because, um, I'm really into my career.
B:	Yeah,
B:	when it's time,
B:	uh-huh.
A:	I'm trying to go somewhere, and,  and get there quick and then worry about, you know, because right now, in my career I'm, I'm really starting out,
B:	Yeah,
B:	you want to establish,
A:	and it's going to take me a while to move up.
B:	Uh-huh,
A:	And I don't need anything kind of holding me back, um.
B:	Right
B:	and, and you'll find that that's the other big thing that has changed in terms of,  um, women don't feel like they need to get married anymore.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Right,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	I was twenty-seven when I got married
B:	and I just at the time, um,
B:	my husband actually even jokes about it.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	He was twenty-three when we met
B:	an I was at a point where it was like, I didn't date,
B:	I mean, I just, I went out to have a good time,
A:	Right.
B:	but I didn't have to have male companionship.
A:	Right,
A:	right.
B:	Um, and a lot of the, um, friends that I had in school at that point, who had gone back and gone to law school, or M B A programs, um, which I also had done, had just, you know, they were very sad.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But then by the time I got married, um,  it seemed like they were on their second or third around the marriage track.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah,
B:	So, I guess that's a big change in terms of, just, um, the attachments that women feel like they need to have, the dependency,  their self-identity is stronger.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah,
A:	it's, it's just really not there anymore.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And that, that has to do with, you know, the women getting out and other women seeing, uh, women seeing other women, you know,  out in the corporate world.
B:	Right.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	That's like, oh, I can do that.
A:	You know, maybe,  I don't need to get married.
B:	Right,
B:	she's probably,
B:	let's see my mother's in her early sixties,
B:	so.
A:	She's, she's about forty.
B:	Okay,
B:	I'm thirty-eight,
B:	I just turned thirty-eight.
B:	Um, yes
B:	I'm laughing,
B:	oh my God.
B:	It does start to creep up.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	No,
B:	um, but it's okay,
B:	don't ever let age,
B:	I mean, I don't
A:	Okay.
B:	nobody talks about it for women except other women and other men.
A:	I, I just turned twenty-three, uh,  April twentieth,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and I'm still going, you know, oh my God, I'm getting so old.
A:	I just,
A:	because me, myself, I just like to move really, really quickly.
B:	Yeah,
B:	an,
A:	I like to,
A:	anything I do,
A:	I got out of school quick.
A:	I'm, you know,  I'm working quick.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I want to move up quick.
A:	I want to make money quick.
A:	I want to retire quick.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And so anything,
A:	when the age creeps up, where I'm twenty-three and twenty-four,  I'm thinking my time is running out. You know,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but I'm actually very, very young.
B:	Yeah,
B:	you are, because what I was going to say is, what you will find is, my background is in journalism and corporate communications,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and what you'll find is,
B:	I mean, I'm just now finally to a point where,
B:	I mean I don't know why I didn't, didn't do it sooner,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but this is probably typical of the women's movement too,  is the idea that you're going to be forty tomorrow anyway, if you want to go back to school.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I'm seriously considering going back to school for law.  Um, which is a complete, I wouldn't say career change, it's, it's a subway ,
A:	Um.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but it's still is a different application.
B:	And I mean, if you think about it, you know, I I still can have another career.
B:	I mean I've worked for over fifteen years in what I've done.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah.
B:	And I mean, so when you're saying quick, um, I think that's probably one thing that your generation coming up after mine,  is thinking that, um, they have to do you know, sort of,  I call kind of, I call it a chewing syndrome.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Right.
B:	They have to eat real fast
B:	they have,  they have to, rapidity of speech,
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	exactly.
B:	they have to just go through everything.
A:	Exactly.
B:	And you'll find that probably by the time your twenty-eight, thirty, if you haven't slowed down,  something will slow you down.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Do you know what I'm saying?
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah,
B:	Um, because it's just, you find out that you're really not, um, smelling the roses,
B:	and I know that sounds trite,  and all that.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I think, I think a lot of, uh, people probably feeling that way,
A:	I know, I'm probably feeling that way because it's, everything's geared towards young.  You know
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and whether I want to realize it or not, everything on television is young,  young, young, young.
B:	Oh it is.
A:	You can't be a model after thirty,
A:	you can't do this after twenty, you know
A:	and,  everybody that's in the music business is starting out at fifteen.  You know,
B:	That's right.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and so I feel like I'm old.
A:	It's like I sing,  I sing
A:	and I would really love to become,  uh, a professional singer,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but I think I'm too old now,
B:	Oh, you're not,
B:	no.
A:	and I'm twenty-three,
B:	No.
A:	because everyone I've seen coming up, they're fifteen.  You know,
B:	That's true
B:	I mean, it's, it's,
A:	and so I'm going, I'm so old
A:	and I'm, I, I really have to always tell myself, no, you're not, you're very young.
B:	No,
B:	you're extremely,
B:	yeah,
B:	it's, it's
A:	And, you know, so it's,
B:	Well it's like us, we're getting ready to do, if possible, for an adoption
B:	and I have friends that say well why would you do that,  if you know you haven't been able to children, which we do know, why would you do that now, at this part, point,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, um, it's just individual choices.
A:	Yeah.
B:	I stopped comparing myself a long time ago to somebody who had, um,
B:	in my family my brother's children,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I mean, he just turned forty,
B:	his children will be out of high school before he's forty-five.
A:	Wow.
B:	Um, I mean that's like your mother,
B:	look how young she is,  compared to where you are out of school and everything.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	yeah.
A:	Right.
B:	It's just, it,
B:	but what you find is you don't compare the woman, because you just get into trouble.
B:	It's all independent and choices.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	yeah,
A:	very true.
B:	Um, but what I was going to say about mothers is, uh, your mother probably just won't say it,
B:	but, I mean, my mother and her sisters are always saying, uh, to my cousins and I, my female cousins,  you girls are so lucky because quote, unquote, you have all these choices, you know,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	you went to school,
A:	Right,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	you can do this,
B:	you can do that,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	we couldn't do that then.
B:	And my cousins and I go, well why couldn't you
A:	Yeah,
A:	that's, that's why I say I feel, I feel really lucky right now, because I'm not married and because I don't have children.
A:	I'm out of school,
A:	I'm twenty-three,
A:	I can do anything I want to do, anything.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And so, I mean even some days I'm looking for another job now,
A:	but, and I get so depressed because, not because I can't find a job, but because I can't figure out what I want to do.
B:	And that's normal,
B:	I mean,  I think that's the world today.
A:	And yeah,
A:	and I
A:	and I'm lucky though, because not a lot of people can sit there and go gee, I don't know what to do.
A:	I have so  you know,
B:	Right
B:	that's
A:	not a lot of people,
B:	Yeah.
A:	but it's depressing too.
B:	That's how, I mean,  What, I'm right now.
A:	What do you, what do you that you're,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I'm, I'm a free-lance writer right now.
A:	Oh.
B:	And then, um, what I'm doing is working at, um, a an electronics company,  for their company newspaper,  right now on the side,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Oh.
B:	and then I'm also,
B:	actually, I'm excited, tomorrow I have a, uh, luncheon appointment with a perspective client to do,  uh, marketing communications for them.
A:	Huh.
A:	Huh, okay,
A:	I'm a, I'm a news reporter, now,
B:	Oh you are?
A:	and what I'm looking for is something in, I really don't want to stay in news,
A:	but I would like to stay in journalism,
A:	and I've been looking for something exactly like that
B:	Here's what you
B:	this is off the topic,
B:	and those people probably
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	okay
B:	Did you go to Baylor by any chance?
A:	No,
A:	I I went to U T at Austin.
B:	Oh, okay,
B:	that's even better.
A:	And I, I just happen to work at a Waco station, because you know.
B:	I went to,
B:	or you in radio, or television or news.
A:	broadcast news, T V,
B:	Uh, my journalism degree is in,
B:	Are you still there?
A:	Yes.
B:	Okay,
B:	it worked out fine.
A:	Okay.
B:	Well, we just ate out, um, had a big lunch actually because we both have been working late
B:	and we had Italian, um,
B:	have you ever been to the Olive Garden?
A:	No,
A:	I haven't,
A:	is that good?
B:	Yeah.
B:	Well, do you really like Italian food?
A:	it's not my favorite
A:	but,  I like it's okay.
B:	Then don't,
B:	Then this will probably,
B:	I mean this isn't really excellent Italian food,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	That sounds terrible to tell you to go somewhere where it's not that great
B:	but it's, um,
B:	you're not going to believe this
B:	but I have to tell you this if I don't because you're in Plano,
A:	That's okay.
B:	but my, um, softball unit here is acting like he's dying of tramane poison
B:	It wasn't that bad,
B:	actually it's very good it's all of these run adult males,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	which I'm not Italian,
B:	no,
B:	it's , it's all the garlic bread and all the,  salads you can eat with an entree.
A:	Oh.
A:	Oh, that sounds really good.
B:	So it wasn't too bad it really wasn't
B:	but I was more in the mood for french toast any way
B:	so,  so I really like Italian food though,
A:	Yeah.
B:	but do you have any favorite?
A:	Well are there just the two of you?
B:	Uh, yes,
B:	uh-huh.
A:	Okay,
A:	well, when my husband and I go out we have four children.
B:	Oh, you're kidding.
A:	So that makes a difference.
A:	For us when we go out with the kids obviously we want to go somewhere that we can,
A:	the fast food ones are probably the ones they like the best.
B:	Oh, sure.
A:	But we don't like to go there because that's the most expensive,
A:	so we like to go to a pizza place where you can buy a pizza for one price and feed the whole family,  and like that.
B:	Yeah.
B:	You can usually get a variety of what you're looking for,  like at Gatti's or something like that.
A:	Right.
A:	Right,
A:	but when my husband and I go out we like to go somewhere with a little atmosphere
A:	and we usually head on down, um, oh what's the freeway down here?
B:	Uh, six thirty-five?
A:	Yeah.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And there are, um, all along that, that freeway there are restaurant
A:	but one of our favorites is Pappasito's.
B:	Oh, yeah,
B:	Pappasito's.
A:	No,
A:	we love to go there.
B:	We went there on my birthday in March it's great.
A:	You know it always kills me cause I don't like the, the decorations so much
A:	it's too,
B:	too much like a bar naturally,  and Mexico,
A:	Yeah
B:	yeah,
B:	I know,
B:	I've seen it.
A:	But I love the food I love the food,
B:	The food is probably,
A:	the food is great.
B:	I'm not a I'm Mexican food gourmet by any means
B:	but it's probably the best tasting,
B:	I don't know would you classify that as Tex-Mex?
A:	Yeah,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	Um, the shredded beef the type of,  spices or sauces they use.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	I like to get that, uh,
A:	a shrimp it's a shrimp dish,
B:	Really.
A:	and I don't remember the name of it,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but it's rolled up into, into something,
A:	and oh, it's really good.
B:	I've never had anything there that wasn't delicious.
A:	Yeah,
A:	they are really good.
B:	Even though you have to stand in line and all of that, that's the only thing I don't like about it too
B:	it's a little bit with the meat market atmosphere, you know.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah.
B:	Even though we don't have kids we've been married long enough to, um, be around not be around that.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Um, I'm trying to think of what else we like to eat.
B:	The one thing I notice is it's just, um, about dining out that you probably can relate to with four children and two of us getting ready to adopt, I mean we find prohibited,  just to cost any more?
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
B:	I mean lunch today was eighteen dollars.
A:	Yeah,
A:	it's very expensive.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I don't know how you feel about that
B:	but I think that some of it's over priced.
A:	Yeah
B:	I'm glad I'm talking about food normally these conversations are
A:	Sometimes it's hard isn't it to keep a,
B:	Yeah,
B:	it is I don't know, um,
A:	No,
A:	sometimes Mark and I, that's my husband Mark,  um, go to the August Moon which is down there
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	it's a Chinese,  uh, restaurant with the lions in the front,
B:	Oh, yeah,
B:	my husband likes that.
B:	yeah,
B:	off of Arapaho down there?
A:	yeah,
A:	and, Oh, it's pretty good as far as Chinese,
B:	Yeah,
B:	August Moon,
B:	uh-huh.
A:	but Chinese isn't my favorite
A:	so,
B:	I don't like it at all usually
B:	so
A:	But he likes it kind of
A:	so he heats us up a good fight
A:	now, me I'm like I said seafood I'm,
A:	I like that.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I love seafood,
A:	So.
B:	and I, I like a lot of different ethnic foods.
B:	I like Japanese food.
B:	There's a place on Greenville called Sagar's .
A:	Um.
B:	Well, we haven't been in years down near Presby ,
B:	and I had a meeting down there today
B:	and I saw that
B:	and I said, gee I remember that they offer you, um, authentic Japanese feeding,  or American or piano bar,
A:	Oh.
B:	and I remember when we went  we were married with another couple that was just dating
B:	and, um, I had never had saki.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	It made all raw fish tastes great
B:	but if you're looking for a very, uh,
B:	it's very pretty inside,
A:	Is it?
B:	and the girls wear kimonos and, You know, if you're ever looking for that.
A:	Oh, how nice.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Um, but what other kind of foods,
B:	gee I don't know
B:	we went to a place called Grishman's in Greenville,  which was really over priced.
A:	I don't know that place.
A:	Was it?
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	They had a great desert bar.
A:	Um.
A:	That's what we need isn't it?
B:	Yeah.
A:	No,
A:	there's a lot of nice barbecue places here,
A:	now, I like barbecue okay, Texas barbecue.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I like,  barbecue,
A:	It's good.
B:	have you ever been to I think it's called Spring Creek Barbecue?
A:	Yeah,
A:	now,  they're real good.
B:	That's real good,
B:	Yeah.
A:	They are good.
B:	There had,
B:	oh my husband's going upstairs,
B:	and he says free ice cream
A:	Yeah,
A:	free ice cream,
A:	yeah.
B:	I didn't know they had that.
A:	Yeah.
B:	I can't talk I had chocolate bavarian tort, for desert,  today, which I never eat at lunch
A:	Oh.
B:	and it was wonderful.
A:	Just to die for exactly.
B:	It was,
A:	Oh.
B:	in fact if I could pick my, um, restaurants on how their coffee is and how their french bread is and the butter and the desert I would be,  yes, I would be in hog heaven.
A:	In heaven
B:	And how are your kids at an age where they can contribute to what they want
B:	or do you still order for them?
A:	Well, my two littlest,
A:	I just had a baby,
B:	Oh, congratulations.
A:	and she's six months
A:	and then my four year old he, he still,
A:	but my other older two they can.
A:	So,  they're they're kind of,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	my littlest girl she's still like wants McDonald's, McDonald's, McDonald's
B:	Yeah,
B:	everybody, every child that I even know that eats vegetables, um, looked five years old still after a certain age realized that there is something called a McDonald's.
A:	Oh, I'm telling you.
B:	It's really sad isn't it cause it's hard to get them away from junk then.
A:	Well, it's kind of funny is sometimes we're like we all want different things,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and so there's a H Avenue down here,  and along are these fast food restaurants
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	I know where that,
B:	Right
B:	that's all,
A:	So we all get to go to our own little thing and drive through and get our own thing,
A:	and then we go to park over there so we can all have our own.
B:	Well, that's all right as long as,
A:	that's on the nights we can't decide.
B:	I was going to say because with six people how do you, um,
B:	cause with two we have a problem,
B:	I mean I can't even imagine, you know, trying to, um,
B:	you sound like you're doing pretty well with four children.
A:	Well, five of them, they're good, kids.
B:	That's the way the,
B:	Yeah,
B:	well, we're getting ready to
B:	I shouldn't say this on this conversation,
B:	but it's just on my mind,
B:	we're getting ready to go overseas to adopt.
A:	Oh, how nice.
B:	Yeah,
B:	we're excited,
A:	It will be neat.
B:	I think it will be worth it
B:	and somebody said to me in terms of,
B:	this is food so I can say this,
B:	but they, you have to bring a formula,
B:	and I said what's that
B:	They laughed
B:	and I said well, you know, I'm.  thirty something,
A:	Food's, food.
A:	Yeah.
B:	and I think that that would make them drool any way.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah.
B:	You, know, I guess are you is it a little bit of constricted, because a lot of restaurants don't take,
B:	in terms of talking about restaurants, I mean are a lot of restaurants, how are they when you have children let alone three or four children?
A:	You have to be careful if you go to a, a restaurant that,  that really is more adults you know,  with the atmosphere and everything,
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Sure.
A:	they,
A:	if you're,
A:	like we could probably take our oldest son and,  and our oldest daughter.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And they know how to act,
B:	Yeah.
A:	I don't think I would chance it with my younger ones because they're just too much of a distraction
A:	and some restaurants are really trying to go for that atmosphere kind of thing.
B:	That yuppie kind of crowd, yeah.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
A:	So.
B:	I just, I just, I've been in some places where they say they take children,
B:	and then I've just seen where the wait attendance the wait staff is rude, you know.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And that always just bothered me
B:	and then, um, on the other hand sometimes the children or the adults are themselves
A:	Yeah
B:	I don't know what other kind of restaurants
B:	really Pappasito's we love, um,
B:	we went to one Italian,
B:	back on the Italian, we went to some place across from Collin Creek Mall that absolutely putrid for Italian food.
A:	Oh.
B:	I can't remember the name of it
B:	it's on, uh,
A:	Is it Tia's, not Tia's, um,
B:	No,
B:	that's Mexican, um, right across from on the Dillard's side there,
A:	Yeah,
A:	I know which one it is,
A:	and I can't think of it.
B:	I can't,
B:	yeah
B:	it's in the strip, yeah,
B:	and it had white tablecloth,
B:	I think it was like paper where you could write on them, or something with crayons
B:	it was just terrible.
A:	Oh dear.
B:	I mean I was shocked,
B:	I mean the dish was dirty, um,
A:	It was one of these you have bad experience and,  say I don't think I'll come back here.
B:	Yeah,
B:	where you felt like,  like when you're in a bad part of Italy or something.
A:	Oh dear.
B:	Um.
A:	Oh.
B:	Boy,
B:	but other then that I don't know we, we do our share of pizza eating too, but more like go get it and carry it in cause we're too,  cheap to pay the delivery
A:	Oh.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah,
A:	yeah.
B:	I don't like strange people coming to my door, um,
A:	Well, I, I've got
A:	one of my favorites were
A:	and I can't really think of any other, um, places.
B:	No,
B:	except that this makes me fat.
B:	No,
B:	I'm just kidding.
A:	Yeah,
A:	you have to watch it if you go out to eat
A:	that's true.
B:	Yeah,
B:	that's true,
B:	but you can always blame it on having children,
B:	no
A:	Yeah,
A:	there you go.
B:	Well, I enjoyed talking to you,
B:	and I guess, you know, Maybe we'll see you in the restaurants somewhere.
A:	Well, good luck.
A:	Yeah,
A:	maybe.
B:	Okay.
A:	Okay.
A:	Bye-bye.
B:	Bye-bye.
A:	Well, we're just starting a family through adoption
A:	so I don't really have a lot of, uh, concrete, uh, opinions.
A:	Just what I know out of my peer group, uh, has gone through.
A:	And none of it has been good
B:	Oh, really?
A:	Yeah.
A:	Uh, the ones that can afford to have live-in nannies,  They seem to be having an okay time.
B:	Huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh, but a lot of the other ones that have, are professional, uh,
A:	I'd say fifty percent of, you know, my peers that I'm, in my circle of friends have tried it and then stopped working until they're, you know, going to get their children in kindergarten or first grade.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh, but I,
A:	there must be some good service out there if you  really look and pay for it.
B:	Right.
B:	What, what age child are you thinking in terms of?
A:	In terms of what they're talking about.
B:	No.
B:	For, for yourselves
A:	Oh.
A:	Infant. Uh ...
B:	Oh, okay.
A:	Infant.
B:	So you're starting from the from the baseline.
A:	Yeah.
A:	After eleven years of marriage. Yeah, we are.
A:	We're actually, it's happening now.
A:	So, we're just going through the process.
B:	I see
A:	So and actually the question is, uh, very appropriate.
A:	Cause I'm not sure whether, uh, how strong the maternal instinct is going to be.
A:	They tell me it's going to be strong
A:	Do you  have children?
B:	Right.
B:	I have one son.
A:	And did you put him in daycare
A:	or is he older now or younger
A:	or?
B:	Well, he's, he's now eighteen. And in, in, you know, has completed a couple of years of university.
A:	Sure.
A:	So he's out of daycare
B:	I,
B:	right.
B:	And, and so that,
B:	but I was working full-time, uh  when he was born.
A:	You,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	But I was very lucky because I was a, a college professor.
A:	Oh.
B:	And so I was able to, you know,
B:	and I, it was  walking distance from, from  my apartment.
A:	Flex .
A:	Yeah.
B:	So I went up there
B:	and I sort of left him with, with a neighbor.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And I left him in a carry cot when he was very little
B:	And I said, you know, he doesn't need anything except, you know, look at him if he cries.
B:	But, you know, don't pick him up and, and  this sort of stuff.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Because I was gone only an hour at a stretch or an hour and a half.
A:	Oh, that's wonderful.
B:	And I was able to, you know, get, his schedule just, uh, cooperated.
A:	Right.
B:	And ...
A:	That's wonderful.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And, and I guess, uh, because of your, um, your, uh, profession.
A:	I mean, I, uh, I'm in corporate communications.
A:	But I've done free-lance writing in the past,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	so what we're hoping is that, uh,
A:	I mean my husband thinks I can do it.
A:	I've just never worked out of a domestic base, you know.
A:	I've always  been in a corporate, uh, environment.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh, but I'm hoping that possibly I can do something where I can go flextime or part-time
A:	or if they don't have that, uh,
A:	my boss,
A:	I'm very lucky though, again too, my boss is very akin to family building.
A:	So, I think that's something that couples need in going  into this.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Right.
A:	Uh, I don't know.
A:	I do think there's good daycare out there.
A:	What part of the country are you in?
B:	I'm in Maryland.
A:	You're in Maryland.
B:	But, but I was out of the country when, uh, my, my son was little.
B:	But, but the thing is, if you have this flextime and that, you might be able to do something similar to what I did.  Which is you know, be there short times
A:	Right.
A:	That's what I'm hoping.
B:	and then later on when he was, you know
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I mean this,
B:	we're talking about, uh, I went back to work and, or taught some, some classes like a week after he was born.
A:	Oh, my goodness.
A:	You were  fortunate.
B:	And so ...
A:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
B:	And so that's when I was  saying, you know, don't, don't pick him up and stuff.
A:	Yeah.
B:	But then later what I did was I brought a woman into the house.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Sure.
B:	And she, she was supposed to help me a little bit with cooking and doing the baby's laundry and this sort of stuff.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And then, I also came home and sort of was able to see from a distance what she was doing.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, you know, in a sense she, she carried him around a lot, too much. Uh, you know for, for my taste.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Right.
B:	It was constantly, no, I don't want him,  to explore anything.
B:	He might, uh, he might hurt himself
A:	So do you think that, I mean, do you think that that was in a way though, good good objectivity that, that doesn't really,
A:	that's not a correct English
A:	but , you know  in a sense, you see what I'm saying though.
A:	From a mother's standpoint, I mean in a way, it was quote and unquote good objectivity.
B:	I think it worked out very, very well.
B:	Because what he learned to do by the time he was two or so, he would sit next to the desk where I was grading papers or  writing lesson plans.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	See.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And he had asked for a paper and, you know, sort of scribble
B:	and then he realized that there  were quiet times
A:	Yeah.
B:	and there were active times.
A:	Right.
A:	And then he learned he, he also learned that, uh, there were times that you had to be gone, so you probably minimized,
A:	well we're actually, uh, we're getting ready.
A:	I mean, you're far enough away now I can tell you since this is locally, I make sure, we're going to Romania in a few weeks.
B:	Oh.
A:	And that's, uh, just .  Romania.
B:	Did you say Romania or Armenia?
B:	Oh, okay.
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah.
A:	As in, like, what Twenty Twenty and, uh, but we, we're real excited because we've just developed a contact. Through professional people
B:	Oh, good.
A:	and it's private
A:	and it's hospital.
A:	It's, we're just very excited
A:	Uh ... And what's the word I'm looking for.
B:	Oh great.
A:	When you deal with issues like that, uh, in terms of family building through adoption, uh, and then you have people responding to you, well if you go through that why would you put them in daycare.
B:	Oh that's silly.
A:	Uh, issues are being raised prematurely in my mind.
A:	But I guess they're not because it's something I'll have to deal with sooner than later.
A:	Uh, and I, what I've learned to do is just tune out everybody's opinion.
A:	I feel that if the child is healthy, uh, and as long as we make it feel secure, I'd love to do something like with what you did.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh, I don't think I could be dumper where I could take it from, you know, eight in the morning till nine at night or six at night and leave it there.
B:	Right.
A:	Uh, maybe after two or three or, years old.
A:	I don't know. Um.
B:	Oh, I in my opinion, it's even than.
B:	I mean  your kids need you
A:	Yeah.
A:	Well, they need a schedule I think.
A:	I don't think the United States,
A:	what country were you, uh, in Europe when you were uh, uh?
B:	No,
B:	I was in the Middle East.
A:	Uh, that's
A:	Well, that's the same thing.
A:	I mean I don't know how they are there
A:	but, uh, in eastern Europe,
A:	my stepfather's from England,
A:	it just seems the United States does not provide for either child care or or elder care, as I call it.
B:	Right,
B:	right.
A:	Uh, and we're just not set up for that.
A:	Uh, with the .
B:	I,
B:	yeah.
A:	Go ahead.
B:	No,
B:	I was just going to say, I guess, uh, my sensitivities are, are much more with the, you know, to be at home.
B:	Because actually, I had my grandmother with me from the time she was from the time she was ninety-two until she died at ninety-seven.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	See, I think that's wonderful.
B:	And, I mean, that was recently after my son, was going off.
B:	And I mean, yes,
B:	in a sense, I went to work
B:	and she was at home alone some of the time.
B:	But, but still, you know, it was much better than being shipped to
A:	To.
A:	Right.
B:	I think we're we're too, too much towards it's somebody  problem, you know.
A:	We cast off.
A:	Right,
A:	right.
A:	I'm that way.
A:	Yeah.
B:	I want to work.
B:	Shove them in, in some school for twelve hours a day.
A:	Right.
A:	It's easier
A:	and I agree with that.
A:	That's why I you know,
B:	Yeah.
A:	what is amazing to me is now your son is already grown
A:	but you can probably empathize with this.
A:	It's amazing to me how forthcoming people are with their opinions and thoughts
B:	Right,
B:	right.
A:	In terms of what to do. Uh,
A:	and I just don't think there is a day, a good daycare system.
A:	Uh, my company, I'm particularly fortunate that they have, they're in tune with that.
A:	But I've been at companies where, uh, you know, the, the, the trend is, or the definite mood is, well we made conscious decisions not to have children.
A:	You know.
A:	And in,
A:	and a couple like us building through adoption, there, it's almost radical to some people.
A:	And what you just learn to do is tune everybody else out
A:	and, uh, I respect, there are some women that I know that are divorced or on their own or in single parenting and men that they, you know, they may have the need for child care like that.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	But I agree with you, that it's just, I call it dumping
B:	Yeah.
A:	I, I ...
B:	No,
B:	I, I think that certainly there is a role, uh, for this type of help.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, and as long as one can, can supervise it and, and, you know, make it work in, into one's own schedule without it seeming like dumping or or, or, uh, giving it, you know, the whole job to somebody else to take care of.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Then, yeah,
A:	it's  in tandem then.
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah
A:	I just, uh,
A:	and there are trade-offs too I think.
A:	One of the things that is a problem is that, uh, in terms of compensation to some of the child care providers.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh, it's just, you know, it's so low
A:	but yet the overall cost for somebody doing it on a daily or even a weekly basis, it's prohibitive.
A:	And some people that are not making more than twenty thousand a year uh ...
B:	Yeah.
B:	Actually, there seems to be an alternative in my neighborhood.
B:	Is
A:	Really.
B:	there seem, there are several, mothers who stay home.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And they take, you know,
B:	it's probably not completely legal
B:	Uh, I,
B:	maybe it's legal up to one or two additional kids.
A:	Sure.
B:	But, and they, they take care of another child
B:	and I, I can actually could name five or six people around my neighborhood that really do a good job on this.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	And they,
A:	yeah.
B:	And I mean that's another possibility
B:	and, you know, you might want to stay home one year
B:	and some other lady might want to stay home for a, a few years
B:	and ...
A:	I haven't thought about that.
A:	Yeah.
A:	And actually my neighbor has an eighteen month old
A:	and she's at home part-time paralegal.
A:	So I'm thinking, um
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah.
A:	And we get along fantastically
A:	so I'm thinking, you know.
A:	And that's the way you have to, uh,
A:	how
A:	I'm just real curious.
A:	How was the Middle East in terms of that with children?
A:	Is that, is child care or that type of idea completely foreign to them?
B:	No.
B:	Well, actually there was a daycare center, uh, where my son did go for a year.
B:	I think from when he was two to three.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But then he actually started kindergarten at age three.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And so, and you know, it wasn't like prekindergarten,
B:	it was real kindergarten.
A:	Oh, really.
A:	He must be smart.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
B:	So he, he was ready to, to go to school at that point.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But, yeah,
B:	they're, they do have such facilities.
B:	But for the most part, uh, with the extended family, you know, you can usually find somebody. Which is much like our neighbor you know, to, sharing responsibility.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And I'm, and also there aren't that many women who, who who work.
A:	The professional.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I was wondering about that.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Uh, there,
A:	I'm in Dallas
A:	and there was just a very big, uh, series about Moslem women
A:	and there were enlightening things that broke some of my stereotypical thoughts.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I'm digressing here
A:	but, uh, I was just real curious when you said Middle East, if you  didn't mind me asking.
B:	Yeah.
B:	No,
B:	no.
B:	And I didn't mean Israel.
B:	So you, you assumed right
A:	Oh, no
A:	that's okay
A:	Well, even if you did, that's okay actually.
A:	I think ...
B:	Well, no
B:	because at first thought, when I you know, I said that not many people work, I'm, I'm thinking oh, well she's going to, you know, because certainly in Israel the women do work
A:	Right.
A:	Right.
A:	They fight,
A:	they work.
B:	Are you a Vietnam veteran, Dudley?
A:	Uh, no.
B:	No?
B:	Do you have family who were in the Vietnam War?
A:	Uh, no.
A:	My father was, uh, came in right after World War two.
B:	Okay.
B:	So he was too old,
B:	and you were too young, right?
A:	I am too young, yeah.
B:	All right.
B:	Do you know some folks who have been there?
A:	Uh, yes.
B:	Okay.
A:	A couple.
B:	Okay.
B:	How did it influence them?
A:	Uh, the, the one guy I worked with down in Austin hated it.
A:	Uh, he was a lineman down there.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And while he was there, he caught some kind of a strange disease.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, all his hair fell out,
A:	and he had like a hundred and five fever for a while
A:	and, And, uh,
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh, what about long lasting effects on him?
B:	Has he still suffering from those problems?
A:	I do not think he was in combat,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	so, Uh-huh.
B:	Well, I have talked with a number of Vietnam veterans,
B:	and I really, I had no one directly related to me involved.
B:	But, uh, my sister's husband was in Vietnam.
B:	And it, it really made a completely different man out of him.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	He went to Vietnam one man and came back another, not better.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Then, uh, another friend of mine went,
B:	and he was in combat.
B:	But he came back,
B:	and he said, "Okay, that is it. That is behind me. I am going on with my life."
B:	Much like what Roger Staubach did.
A:	Right.
B:	He was, uh, he was a Vietnam war veteran.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And, uh,
A:	But he was in the Navy, though, he was .
B:	Yeah.
B:	That is true.
A:	It makes a lot of difference.
B:	Right.
B:	And, but, uh, most of the folks that I have met that were actually on the land, or in combat, are still, still carry a lot of anger.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	They really do.
B:	And, uh, I, I, I, I really do not think that we did those young men right.
A:	Huh.
B:	I think that, uh, Desert Storm, shows a lot of learning since that time.
A:	Oh, yeah.
B:	Uh
A:	Well, the armed forces did so much to, you know, Agent Orange,
A:	they did so much to their own people all during that time.
B:	Yeah.
B:	That is true.
A:	You know, and they they take a, even now, uh, they take a free hand as far as medicine and, uh, you know, how they treat the war casualties, you know.
B:	Yeah.
A:	If you come back and your leg is blown off, you know, or, or it is hanging by a thread, they still can't put it back together now.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	But, But what they do afterwards and how they rehabilitate you.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Well, you know, one of the most troublesome things that I have encountered as a result is the incredible influx of southeast Asians into this country since that conflict.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Uh, not so, much that I say, I do not want you here.
B:	But there is just such a surge of southeast Asians.
B:	It has affected the culture of this country, uh, very much.
A:	Oh, yeah.
A:	It's it's about nine or ten percent now.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Well, uh, the culture is changing.
B:	Look how much more Oriental food we have, restaurants now, for example.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh, even ten years ago, there were not that many.
B:	A lot of shops are, are operated by southeast Asians.
A:	That's true .
B:	A lot of people have complained in the schools.
B:	There is a culture change there.
B:	The southeast Asians seem to be very hungry,
B:	there seem to be very studious.
B:	And, uh, tends to cause our kids to really have to buckle down to keep up with them, which is not bad.
A:	No.
B:	Not really.
B:	Uh, but it might in the long run you can see where scholarships, for example, uh, even jobs. Uh, jobs that would normally go to an American, with a lesser education, might be going to, to some of these people here.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And that is all a result of, of, of Vietnam.
B:	And, and you see a lot of, a lot of men that were over there, brought families back.
A:	Yeah.
A:	That is,
B:	Uh, and it concerns me that there is probably a lot of mixed breed youngsters still there.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And I would be concerned or interested to find out how they are doing now.
A:	Well, they are probably not doing very well at all.
B:	I know that there,
A:	Because I know there is, there is still people even in the Dallas area.
A:	There are, there are still people trying to get some member of their family back from, uh, Vietnam.
B:	You are talking about P O W or missing in actions?
A:	Uh,
A:	uh,
A:	native Vietnamese people.
B:	Native Vietnamese people.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Okay.
A:	They were lost, you know, when they were little,
A:	and, and they never did get back
A:	or,
B:	Oh, I had not.
B:	That, that had not occurred to me.
A:	Yeah.
B:	That would be an interesting concept.
A:	And, uh, and, as is really a big waste because they didn't, they didn't win,
A:	they didn't regain any of the land that they had.
A:	It spilled over into, uh, now I can't even think of the country.
A:	But,
B:	Cambodia?
A:	Yeah.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and, and all they did is run and hide.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And they were not really fighting, you know,
A:	it, it would have been the same as Desert Storm if all they had been fighting was North Vietnam.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	But, and I am not even sure who was involved more. Whether it was China or Russia.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	You know, they were pouring, they were pouring weapons in there and, and advising, well, digging tunnels for them. You know,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and there is no way that they could ever catch them.
B:	Well, I think the terrain had a lot to do with the, the success of Desert Storm as opposed to that in Vietnam.
A:	Yeah,
A:	that is right.
B:	You know, there is incredible cover in Vietnam.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And you can't find much cover on, in a sand dune
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah,
A:	all they can do is dig in,
A:	and they, you know,
B:	That is right.
A:	and then they try to camouflage the top.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	uh-huh.
A:	Well now, even, I think even now, and in Vietnam they could probably have done a better job.
A:	Because they could, they could kill all those plants, you know, which would devastate the country as far as farming from then on.
A:	But, and the, and the Corps of Engineers I think do a better job now, like they did in Desert Storm.
A:	Because they had,
B:	Well,
A:	he, he dug a bunch of moats and filled them with oil
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and he set a lot of booby traps all along the way as they went.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And then they had to fill in little bridges all the way where he, where he had made those moats.
B:	What world war do you think they found the experience for that?
A:	Uh,
B:	Don't you think they learned from the mistakes in Vietnam?
A:	yeah,
A:	partially.
B:	Part of it is that, part of it is technology.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Part of it is technology, yeah.
B:	But when, when, When you get into trouble like that in a place like Vietnam, you do tend to analyze the problems that you get into,
A:	Because all,
A:	go ahead.
B:	and you say, "Never more."
A:	Yeah.
B:	And, and you overcome those problems,
B:	and you are prepared next time.
A:	I think that is one of the reasons that they have, they have pretty much avoided getting involved in South America.
A:	Because look what happened when they were looking for Noriega,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and they lost him for four hours when they were right on top of him, you know.
B:	Right.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	He probably just went right down into a tunnel.
B:	Sure.
B:	Sure.
B:	Sure.
B:	Well, I know that, uh, from a personal standpoint, people was one of the finest assets that we lost.
B:	We did not actually physically lose them.
B:	They did not lose their lives,
B:	but they lost a whole lot of the life they might have had.
A:	Yeah.
A:	That is right.
B:	Uh, being entirely different people.
B:	I had dinner Monday night with a Vietnam veteran who is just now beginning to recover from the drug and alcohol struggle that he had.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	That is a long time to suffer.
A:	Yeah.
A:	And they, they really need,
A:	everybody that has, that has stood there,
A:	it's,
A:	when
A:	in Vietnam I think it was much closer contact.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and that has to affect you if you are human, you know.
B:	Oh, yeah,
B:	yeah.
A:	So they had to work all that, that anger out, and the, and the nightmares that come along with it.
B:	I can't, uh,
B:	Oh, yeah.
B:	You bet,
A:	I do not, I do not really think that anybody can ever forget that,
B:	you bet.
A:	but they can, they can reason and, and try to adjust to, to why they were there.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Well, you see that is what the veterans are so angry about now.
B:	They say, "Well, we're, going to listen to this and we are going to look at this, find out what our mistakes were, and we are not going to make them again."
B:	But that does not undo the ones that were done.
B:	And that is what makes the veterans angry.
A:	Right.
B:	And I cannot blame them.
B:	I do not know a solution.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But I sure cannot blame them for being angry.
B:	On the other hand, you know, you can be angry about something for a very long time,
B:	or you can say, "Well, that is the way it is," and go on with your life.
B:	Uh,
A:	Right.
B:	For the most part, I wish that it had not happened.
A:	Yeah.
B:	But it did.
A:	And that, and that was, that was in the, in the era when Kennedy was president that they were afraid of everything, you know.
A:	And, and, and they initially got into it because of Eisenhower.
A:	And he just, he did not want to be in it any more than, than what we started out in August with Desert Storm.
B:	Oh, yeah.
A:	And then it just blew up into the war.
B:	Well, it has been that way for a very, very long time, though.
B:	I can remember when I was in the sixth grade,
B:	and that was many years ago.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	We were reading about the French struggling with that in southeast Asia.
A:	French, yeah.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So, and, and, and the Asians historically have always had these kinds of wars going on.
A:	Right, yeah.
B:	There, there has not been a lot of peace in that part of the world.
A:	Uh-huh
B:	I really, I do not know,
B:	we should not have maybe gotten involved.
B:	But if we did, we certainly should have supported our people who were there.
A:	Yeah.
B:	More so supported them when they got home.
A:	Right.
B:	And, uh, I am afraid that they were treated as castaways for the most part.
A:	Exactly.
B:	And I, I saw the movie, BORN ON THE FOURTH OF JULY,
B:	and I think it did a good job depicting the temperament of the times.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
A:	More than, what was, APOCALYPSE NOW
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Well, Dudley, have we pretty well discussed the subject?
A:	Yeah.
A:	I think so.
B:	Well, I think so.
B:	I enjoyed talking to you.
A:	Yes,
A:	it was nice talking to you.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Okay,
A:	bye-bye.
B:	Bye-bye.
A:	So, P C personal computers.
A:	Do you have a personal computer?
B:	No
B:	I don't, not at home.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I work with them quite a bit though.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	I, I work with them at Kelly Services, doing, uh, data entry.
B:	Oh, okay.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	What do you, what do you think about them?
B:	Well, I think they're useful,
B:	I think they're in some instances they're, they're over used,
B:	well, that's not the right way to say it.
A:	You mean instead of people
A:	or,
B:	Well I think that, uh, some, some work places where I've been they, they set up
B:	like every body has their own P C which a lot of times everybody doesn't need a P C,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and it really,
B:	without them knowing how to use it properly, it slows them down, more than it helps them accomplish something.
A:	Right.
B:	They spend more time messing with the P C than they would actually accomplishing the tasks that they're trying to do if they didn't have a P C at all.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	And you really have to be able to type pretty fast before, you know, before it really saves time.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	that's true.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And you have to, you know, be familiar with it,
B:	like there're so many different software packages, it, you have to be familiar with the one that you're going to be using most.
A:	Uh-huh
B:	A lot of times, uh, people know about half of the capabilities of a package that they should know to actually be able to use it properly,
B:	and so they waste more time with their trying to, uh, figure out how to do, you know, other things, than they would if they, if they actually understood what they were trying to do.
B:	You know, like, uh, they want to, to format a report a certain way
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and if they really understood the capabilities of the package they could, they could do that in about, you know, half the time that they spend trying to figure out how to do it without spending the time to learn the package properly.
A:	To set up the boundaries correctly, and how many lines you're going to use in an,
B:	Right,
B:	exactly.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	A lot of times they, they, they do it manually on the computer, which just really is a waste of time,
B:	and then, if they ever have to change anything in that, in that, in the document, they have to go back and redo it all manually, whereas if they had learned the package properly to start with and had set it up correctly, the package would do that for them whenever they wanted to make a change,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Can't you, can't you put, Can't you put it on a disk and then just edit it, if you need to when you go back.
B:	so I, I've seen that as a problem.
B:	Right,
B:	but in some, in some cases the with the formatting, what I'm talking about is that they would set up, they set up a certain document,
B:	and it may be eight pages long.
A:	Right.
B:	And they set it up manually, so that they have all their spacings and formattings and tabs set manually.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	And and um,
B:	And, um, then when they have to make a change, say they want to insert a paragraph. They got to go through the document and reset all the page breaks manually and rewrite the whole thing instead of having the,
A:	Rewrite the whole thing.
B:	if, if they had set up the formatting on the system itself, it would do that for them, and save them a lot of time.
B:	But a lot of people don't spend the time to learn the package.
A:	How does the word wrap work on that?
A:	Do you end up with very different length lines?
B:	Oh, no,
B:	no
B:	you can left and right justify the whole thing.
B:	It comes out just perfectly spaced like a block.
A:	Um.
B:	It'll, it'll automatically,
B:	it's like typesetting.
B:	It'll automatically do that for you.
A:	And it divides the words by itself?
B:	Usually it doesn't divide words.
A:	Oh, okay.
B:	They usually have it space the words in a line rather than divide a word.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So, you see, like in a newspaper, they typeset.
B:	They don't usually break words in a newspaper.
A:	Right.
B:	If the, if one line is going to be a lot shorter than another line, they just add spaces to that line to make it look long as the rest of the lines.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	They space it out in, in the line itself.
B:	Right.
A:	Oh.
B:	And most computers do that.
A:	They,
B:	Most most software packages will do that for you.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I've, I've known people that have used a package for, for five years, you know,
B:	and I would say, well, have you, you know, you know more about this package than I do,
B:	how do you left justify?
B:	And they would say, I don't know.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And it would take me maybe two or three minutes looking in the manual to figure out what command it was that caused this to happen.
B:	And they would say, how did you do that?
B:	And I'm like, well it's really easy.
B:	And they were like, well, I never knew that.
B:	So obviously they'd never considered looking it up, you know.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Do you think it's a lack of training,
A:	or it's just that they don't use the materials that are available to them.
B:	Sometimes it's,
B:	sometimes,
B:	well, it's a number of different things.
B:	Sometimes they don't, uh, they don't think that they can get any information out of the manual.
B:	Some manuals aren't really designed very well.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But some of them, are,
B:	and more and more of them are coming out written in a way that it, that just a basic, general user can understand them.
B:	So, I think, um, people think it's going to take them a lot longer to learn it properly than it really would,
B:	and so they're really wasting time rather than saving themselves time, because they think, well, it's quicker just to do it myself when it's really not.
A:	Right.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	It's better to learn it directly from the manual.
B:	Well, I think so.
A:	Especially when you have to trouble shoot some things.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Exactly.
A:	Because a lot of the times the computer the program still has, uh, bugs in it,
A:	and you have to work around it.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Have you worked mostly on I B M,
B:	With P C they're either I B M or I B M compatible, mostly.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah,
A:	that's that's all I've seen in offices, is I B M.
B:	That is the, you know, the industry standard.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	There's a lot of really good I B M compatibles, too.
B:	They don't have to necessarily be the I B M brand,
B:	but they have to adhere to that industry standard.
A:	Right.
A:	Well do you think it's been five minutes yet
A:	or,
B:	Oh, probably.
A:	Oh, okay.
A:	Well it was nice talking to you.
B:	Okay.
A:	Thank you.
B:	Bye-bye.
A:	Bye-bye.
A:	Okay.
A:	No.
B:	No.
B:	Is somebody in your family a T I
A:	No,
A:	and that's how he got it.
B:	Oh, okay,
B:	so who do you work for?
A:	I just graduated from college.
B:	So you don't have any benefits at all to talk about.
A:	No.
B:	You're just going to have to imagine what you would like as benefits
A:	Or, what I'm looking for.
B:	Oh, okay,
B:	okay
B:	Well in, in interviewing have you ever discussed benefits with some of the potential employers?
A:	No,
A:	huh-uh.
B:	Didn't get that far.
A:	No.
B:	you normally just try to sell them on your, uh, aptitude and not, you know, well how much vacation do I get
B:	Oh well.
A:	Um.
B:	Well I'll tell you a little bit about what T I has as benefits.
B:	We do have, uh,
B:	like most companies, we have medical insurance.
B:	Although they're tending to try to really cut costs more and more. Um, what they started with a few years ago is that they only would allow you to go to, um, set hospitals in the area.
B:	They call it network hospitals.
B:	They're
A:	Oh, yeah,
A:	I've heard of that.
B:	Yeah,
B:	they're hospitals that they're, uh, agreeing with, uh, T I that they'll be a certain rate, you know, for rooms and care and all that kind of stuff to keep you know, costs down.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Now they're going to start to do the same kind of thing with doctors.
B:	So it's almost like a, um, uh, an H M O you know, kind of thing that, uh, only certain doctors are you going to be allowed to go to and get the full coverage.
A:	Yeah.
B:	If you go to a doctor who isn't in the network then it will be less benefits that you get.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	We have some dental coverage now, um,
B:	but you have to pay a little more to really get something worthwhile.
B:	Like, I've had a couple of crowns recently
B:	and if you didn't have the extra dental plus, um, you only get like a third of your cost, which can be kind of expensive with a crown.
A:	Yeah
A:	it can .
B:	So, I, I pay,
B:	yeah,
B:	I pay for the extra dental plus, so much more per month because it always seems like if you're going to have a crown or something major done it pays a little more.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Um, we do have pension, although I've realized recently that the pension doesn't seem to be too good
B:	and I know when you first start out working you're not thinking about that
A:	Oh, I like to think about that.
B:	After you've been working for a while and you look at your pension account and you go, is that all that's in there.
B:	I don't think's it's going to pay too long when I get out.
B:	Um, we do have a new thing that they've started a few years ago, um,
B:	it's not an I R A,
B:	it's called a four oh one K plan.
B:	It's kind of like pension.
B:	You put in so much money
B:	and then, T I, um, meets you half way up to a certain maximum.
B:	So like I put in a dollar, they put in fifty cents.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So, that grows pretty good
B:	and I think that will be more of something I can see of a pension than the regular pension plan.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Of course you can buy stock in the company,
B:	but, you know, that's not always a real, for sure kind of thing.
A:	Not always safe
B:	Yeah,
B:	especially with this one, you know, it kind of goes up and down.
B:	I don't know if it's any different than other companies,
B:	but you hate to have it fluctuate
B:	and like, you know, last year it was forty dollars a share
B:	and now this year it's thirty six dollars a share,
B:	and you go, gee, I'm losing money
B:	Doesn't quite feel as good.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And we you know, vacation normally after you're here for six months
B:	and you start to get like five days every six months is kind of how they accrue it to you.
B:	And it's, one nice thing about T I is after you've been here, uh, for five years,  you get three weeks.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Oh, that's nice.
B:	Which, a lot of places make you work like ten years or so,  before you get that much.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And we get some, we get, uh, decent holidays.
B:	Um, at Thanksgiving we always get the two days off which is nice, to make a nice long weekend.
B:	And at Christmas we always get two days at Christmas.
B:	They float it around depending on which day of the week Christmas falls on.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So that's nice, so you always get two days at Christmas.
B:	A lot of people just take, you know, that week,
B:	I normally take that week somehow, you know.
A:	Yeah.
B:	You only have to take three days of vacation
B:	and you get the whole week at Christmas time.
A:	Yeah,
A:	well, um, I can just tell you like, you know,
A:	Well there's twelve kids in my family.
B:	Whoa, okay!
A:	So the, the dental was very important, you know, to my dad.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	But, um, I think they took the dental away now.
A:	He worked for United Telephone System,
A:	it's, you know,  it's just another, you know telephone network.
B:	Um.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And they took the dental away,
A:	but now I think they're going to start getting into eye.
B:	Oh, yeah.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I think, uh, um,
B:	I don't use the services
B:	but yeah, I think sometime last year, or just recently they started to give some kind of eye coverage.
B:	You get discounts on, uh, glasses
B:	and I'm not quite sure, there's certain places you can go to that have, uh, discounts for people that work here.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So you can get glasses and contacts and stuff through those particular stores or something like that.
A:	Yeah,
A:	and now for his pension he pretty much just has the stock.  he's on that same kind of pension as what you said only,  for everything he puts in they'll match it, up to a certain amount.
B:	Yeah
A:	Like if he puts in a dollar they'll put in a dollar, you know.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And then he's only allowed, I think, I don't know if it's maybe five percent, or something like that that he's allowed to put in
A:	and they'll match it.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	So and, um, he works for the,
A:	did you ever hear of the National Bureau of Standards?
B:	Yeah.
A:	Okay,
A:	well he works for them.
A:	They changed their name now
A:	but that's, that's where he works
A:	and, um, he, his vacation is really nice.
A:	He's going to be there three years at the end of this month
A:	and he'll be getting three weeks vacation.
B:	Gee,
B:	that's pretty decent.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah.
A:	you know, of course, it's a it's for the government
A:	and he has all, all the holidays off.
B:	Right,
B:	and you get some extra ones.
B:	Federal workers always seem to get,
B:	you know, you get Columbus Day, and Veterans Day,  and those ones that you couldn't really care about so much but you get the day off anyhow.
A:	Right,
A:	right
A:	Yeah,
A:	uh-huh,
A:	he has it really nice.
A:	It's nice where he works,
A:	and, um, he seems to be very happy, you know.
A:	Like his hospitalization
A:	and, you know, he has all that
A:	and with his doctors and stuff, they have, um, a list of doctors that the employees can go to
A:	and it only costs a dollar as long as they go to that doctor.
B:	Oh, yeah,
B:	okay.
A:	You know, and I think it works the same way with his prescriptions and stuff if he needs any.
A:	But you have to go, you know, to certain ones
A:	but still that works out really nice.
A:	You know, it,
B:	Yeah,
B:	we're doing an H M O right now, um,
B:	and when we go to get prescriptions it's five dollars,
B:	but,  you know, sometime, sometimes when you go, you know, the prescription,
A:	That's not bad either.
B:	like my husband always takes which is kind of like, you know, Contact stuff, only better.
B:	Um, you
B:	that's like a buck a capsule.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So if you've got thirty in there it normally comes out to about thirty-four dollars so when you pay five it's a pretty good savings.
B:	Then there's other times that, you know, maybe the prescription wouldn't cost more than like seven or eight dollars
B:	and you pay five anyhow.
B:	So it isn't a,
A:	Hi
A:	you want to start first
B:	Of course.
B:	We are talking about the elderly and, uh, whether or not we we like nursing homes
A:	Right.
B:	and, as a matter of fact, I can tell you something about that.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	You apparently have somebody there, in one.
B:	No,
B:	actually, my grandmother owned and operated a nursing home for years
B:	and her mother,
A:	Oh, you are kidding?
B:	No,
B:	she did.
A:	Oh.
B:	And then my mother also owned and operated a nursing home, for years. And then, uh, went on back to school and became the director of nurses at a nursing home
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, uh, my mother and my older sister both are geriatric nurses.
A:	Oh, for heaven's sake.
B:	So, I do know something about that.
A:	You are very, very much aware of what goes on.
B:	Absolutely.
A:	That is great.
B:	Actually, the motivation for Grandmother entering the business, was that her mother was very old, and couldn't seem to find companions.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	She was lonely.
A:	Right.
B:	And she needed company, for her mother
A:	Right.
B:	and so she opened a nursing home and initially started with eight ladies.
B:	And then, uh, it, it grew into a, very prosperous business from that point.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	Uh, then they,
A:	Now, see that is a nice attitude to go into.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh, it seems like they must be waiting until it is a necessity
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and there is no chance of, uh, good companionship or doing anything.
B:	Well, that is not really true, either, uh,
B:	I think that is a stigma and an I, and an impression that has come from some few bad experiences.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	You see, those who had bad experiences talk about them.
A:	Uh, right,
A:	right.
B:	And those who do not may write, a letter to the nursing home and say you did good,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but they do not talk a whole lot about that.
A:	That is true.
A:	But what I mean is instead of maybe entering a nursing home, when you are still able to have good, relationships with, maybe other friends they wait until they are, you know, unable.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Sure.
B:	Well now, That is right.
B:	Well, that is because they wait until the children make those choices, they choose to not make those, choices themselves.
A:	Right.
A:	Right,
A:	right.
B:	However, my daughter-in-law also is a nurse in a nursing home.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, uh, she works for one here in Dallas, which is more a retirement village than it is a nursing home.
B:	And these, these,
A:	Uh, uh-huh.
B:	I love watching these elderly people come, they will come and tell her. "Well I am going for my, tennis lessons.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, uh, would would you, you know, call down and have the van come around and take, us for our tennis lessons."
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	And they are very active and very enthusiastic
B:	and they have, some excellent programs right there on site.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Their dining room looks like, you know, Luby's Cafeteria.
A:	Yeah.
A:	That is great.
B:	Or, or one of the lovely cafeterias.
B:	And they have, you know, pink linen napkins for their dinners. And, a well equipped library.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
A:	Yeah,
A:	that sounds great.
B:	Oh, I am certainly very much for a nursing home
B:	and I think when the, the parent gets old enough, to the extent where they just do not want to be bothered with keeping house, and with taking care of themselves, anymore. That is a wonderful alternative.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	It is expensive.
B:	It is costly.
A:	See if they could, could get this idea across though, better than what it is, you, know.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Well, now my daddy's mother, uh, lived in a, a retirement village
B:	and she and her sister had side by side duplexes, one bedroom duplex.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	She still had her individuality,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but they were there close
B:	and they did have, uh, you know, the button that you could push the central office if you got into problems
B:	and, there were lights that you could flip on and so forth.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And they have security.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	No,
B:	I am very much in favor,
B:	I have heard horror stories,
A:	Oh, well you have that with anything.
B:	I know that the elderly can easily be abused,
A:	Oh yeah .
B:	but I would be willing to bet they are far less abused in a nursing home than are, they are in, homes of their own children.
A:	In the homes, yeah.
A:	Well, we used our nursing home as, uh,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	like when my sister was real bad before she died uh, we took her the last month and a half, into a nursing home.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And they were super with her.
B:	Absolutely.
A:	They were, uh,
B:	Well now, my grandmother,
B:	of course all of my folks lived to be very old
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and my grandmother developed Hodgkin's Disease, when she was in her late eighties, uh, late seventies, I mean.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	She went to the doctor,
B:	she had surgery,
B:	she got the treatments
B:	and during, the period of time that she was undergoing those treatments she was in a nursing home.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	She got better,
B:	she got well,
B:	she got out and went dancing again.
A:	Well, a lot of people do that.
A:	They , left them temporally maybe they had a, broken hip or something or,
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	That is right.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	uh-huh.
B:	I think it is a wonderful interim place,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	it is a place that you do not have to struggle with hospital, problems
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	and yet it is not, you know,
B:	you have,
A:	And it can become home to them.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	uh-huh.
A:	It, It depends upon the individual.
B:	It certainly is.
B:	It certainly does,
B:	but, you see, we have had excellent experience with that.
B:	And, uh, I, I did not put my husband in a nursing home when he became ill,
B:	but, I would not object to going to one.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	I might, I might like to be, uh, coherent enough to make my own choice.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	Uh, I would not particularly think I would want my kids to say, "well, I think this is what I need for Mom", and, then dump me there.
A:	This is
A:	and,
B:	But, I would like,
A:	There has to be consideration taken on everything.
B:	That is right.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	uh-huh.
B:	And I think you would shop for a nursing home, just like you would shop for a church, or a doctor or anything else.
A:	Yeah.
A:	That is right,
A:	you would look into it thoroughly and, do, do the best job you could in choosing one.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	sure.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	When you get to the point where you are in trouble, and you have got to have that help, you are in no position to make those choices.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	No
A:	and you do not have the time to look,
A:	that is what, I am saying,
B:	That is right.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	most people will not even look at that until it becomes a necessity.
B:	Absolutely.
B:	I think that one of the best ways to do that is for families to realize they are going to be needing those facilities one day, and to actually get involved and participate on a community level with community service.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Go out to the nursing home, help guide some craft programs, perhaps, work on some music programs, whatever their talents are.  And work with, those senior citizens.
A:	Whatever their talents, yeah.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I have a cousin who is, uh,
A:	she had a son that was epileptic from birth,
A:	and he did fine, at home,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	they lived on a farm,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but she made arrangements, so that when she was gone, she did not want her, her children, her other children burdened with his care.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	That is right.
A:	So he, they, she has made arrangements that when she, she was gone, that he would go into the nursing home.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And he has, I would say, he adjusted very well
A:	and, uh, he, he, he has been there quite a long time.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, he don't know me usually
B:	Yeah.
A:	So, he goes wheeling down, uh, the hall to bingo.
A:	Somebody else, is helping him out, you know,
B:	That is right.
B:	Uh. Well, one of the things, I think that is most desirable for the elderly and that is routine.
A:	and, uh, he has adjusted very well.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	oh yes.
A:	Yes.
B:	Routine and, uh, constancy.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh
B:	Uh, the only real problem with that in a nursing home is that the staff turns over.
B:	I do not think they pay, the nursing home staff sufficiently, to, to get the dedication that they have in some other profession,
A:	uh-huh.
A:	To keep them there, uh-huh.
A:	True.
B:	and that is sad, because, I think the health profession is one of the most critical,
A:	Yes.
A:	But , for some reason people resist, uh, the fact that they should be paid as well as businesses and that type of thing, you know.
B:	And, uh,
B:	That is right.
A:	It seems to be a resistance.
B:	Care for the elderly and care for the children, I cannot imagine a more costly and a more, a more, uh, better area to invest, your money.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Right,
A:	right.
A:	But there seems to be a resistance.
B:	You are preserving your heritage and your future there.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah.
A:	So, uh,
B:	And, as a matter of fact, I do not see why they do not have children's programs in nursing homes.
A:	Well, around here, we have some, you know, the churches, take your, the children
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and, I know our kids thoroughly,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	the children thoroughly enjoy,
A:	Okay,
A:	my name is Karen.
B:	Okay,
B:	my name is Terry.
A:	Okay,
A:	and this, uh,
A:	they said about magazines.
A:	We, I've probably personally take I think just two
B:	Okay.
A:	but that's because my mother-in-law takes every one they print and gives them to me, a month later
A:	so. So I get all of them.
A:	Uh, the one that I really especially enjoy,
A:	and you may be familiar with it from Wisconsin, is called COUNTRY.
B:	Oh, yes, uh,
B:	there's COUNTRY LIVING,
B:	there's COUNTRY,
B:	and, uh,
A:	Well, this,
A:	yeah,
A:	this one is the one they have all the pictures of scenery from places we wished we live, like Wisconsin
B:	Oh, yeah.
A:	Gorgeous leaves and trees and all the lakes and the mountains and things.
B:	Sure.
A:	And I get that, it has recipes in it,
A:	and that's my very favorite.
B:	Oh, that's great.
A:	What do you take?
B:	Well, I actually take COUNTRY LIVING,
B:	it's a country magazine on HOUSE BEAUTIFUL, because I like, um that kind of stuff.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah,
A:	decorating.
B:	Decorating and, uh, getting ideas for a garden.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	In fact, uh, right before you called, I was planning my tulips and, uh, putting them on blue print on where I'm going to put them,
A:	Are you?
B:	so I'm really into that,
A:	Oh.
B:	but, uh, so, I really get into magazines that are kind of basically into, um, housing type things, where the, be decorating and gardening and recipes, that kind of stuff.
A:	And decorating and how to do things.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So I'm pretty much in the same category as what you're looking at.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Well, we, we tried for a while to take a news magazine.
A:	We took NEWSWEEK
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and I think we took it especially just during the war to kind of catch up on everything and have it be digested.
B:	Sure.
A:	But we've kind of discontinued that right now
B:	Yeah.
A:	and we've, we're going to start taking that, uh, U S NEWS, uh, newspaper. U S A TODAY,
A:	I think it.
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah,
B:	I've had TIME before.
A:	Yeah.
B:	I think with that what happens is, uh, it's interesting to read
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but you kind of just put the magazine away
B:	and you never read it again unless there's some big article in there that you're going to keep for your kids,
A:	That's right.
B:	but,
A:	That's exactly right.
A:	I did the same thing.
A:	We saved the ones from the election
A:	and we saved the ones from the war and one from the earthquake.
B:	Yeah,
B:	exactly it sounds exactly like what we did
A:	And then
A:	and,
B:	we just saved everything we could for our daughter
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but, uh that's pretty similar,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but I find that with these COUNTRY magazines, I keep going back to them, getting ideas, looking back and saying, Jeez, there was a flower garden in there that I , that I would like to have some ideas, you know
A:	Well, you sound like you, That's the thing, you sound like you have the facilities to do that.
B:	I get a lot of ideas from them.
B:	Yes,
B:	we do.
B:	We're out in the country
A:	Oh.
B:	we're right across from a river,
B:	and uh, you're right, the leaves are beautiful,
B:	and they are falling now,
B:	so.
A:	Oh.
B:	Uh, it just peaked, uh, last week,
B:	and it was just gorgeous out here,
B:	but.
A:	I bet it is gorgeous.
B:	Yeah,
B:	it's beautiful.
B:	The other thing about magazines, the only thing I don't like, is they really get heavily into advertising
A:	I agree,
B:	and, you know, it's, it's, it's fine,
B:	I'd rather almost have
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I know that part, probably half their money comes from these people that are saying, uh, Put my ad in your paper and I'll pay you or whatever,
A:	Yeah,
A:	right.
B:	but, uh, there's been some magazines I've looked at,
B:	and it's a real turn off to see every other page,  some kind of ad,
A:	Every page.
A:	I do the same thing,
A:	I, I think I opened VOGUE the other day or something
B:	Yeah,
B:	VOGUE is,  heavily into that.
A:	and it was just nothing, uh-huh.
A:	And I thought, Why buy this?
B:	Yeah,
B:	exactly,
B:	it's almost
A:	You know, what's the point?
B:	I mean, you could go into a store and get bombarded the same way,
A:	That's right.
A:	And my number one pet peeve in a magazine, is when they put the perfume in it because, uh, real often, I don't like very heavy perfumes
B:	Yeah,
B:	exactly.
A:	and very often, like, you know, in my bills, also, magazines and bills, and they'll, come out just stinking the whole thing.
B:	Exactly,
B:	yeah,
B:	they're really getting into that
B:	so,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But pretty much like I said, the magazines I've had, BETTER HOMES AND GARDEN,
B:	and now I need a switch,
B:	and I'm going back to GOURMET COOKING, because, um, I've had the magazine before, back in nineteen, uh, eighty-six,
A:	Oh.
B:	and I thought, Well, I'll give it a try again, because you get tired of one magazine,
B:	and you need to try a change.
A:	I understand.
A:	Well, do you , do you tear out of your magazines, your recipes
A:	or do you keep it?
B:	Uh, yes,
B:	I do,
B:	and sometimes, most of the time I tear them out.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	A lot of times, if, uh, you know, if I got a chance to sit down at my typewriter, I'll go ahead and type out recipes,
B:	but what I usually do is I'll try it out in the magazine first, and, without tearing it out, and then give it a,
A:	Type it out, uh-huh.
A:	See how the family liked it
B:	Yeah,
B:	and then if we like it it becomes part of the recipe collection,
B:	but, uh.
A:	Oh, that's a good idea.
A:	Well, I'm going to pay attention more when I'm in the store to that COUNTRY LIVING, I remember seeing the cover.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Back when I decorated the house with a lot of the little country, uh, primitive things, the little, the little pigs and the jeez, and the ducks, and that, we had, that was the big rage here, couple of years ago.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And I bought a lot of the country magazines
B:	Sure,
B:	sure.
A:	and then it seems like when I put some of that away, I quit buying it,
A:	but I had forgotten the recipes
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and I'm going to,
A:	I'll have to check that out,
B:	Yeah,
B:	it, it, that's what I, I just went through, uh
B:	we just recently moved from Minnesota to Wisconsin.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I went through all this,
B:	I had this huge stack of HOUSE BEAUTIFUL
B:	I had COLONIAL TIMES,
B:	I had GOURMET
A:	And you don't want to part with any of them because there's one thing in each one
B:	yeah.
B:	It was hard,
B:	but I ended up, uh, reducing them down to like fifteen magazines out of, uh hundreds.
A:	Oh, that's good.
B:	And I just said, Okay, there's one picture in there that,
B:	it really doesn't, you know
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	it's got to have more than that
A:	right.
B:	it's got to have some good ideas
A:	Right.
B:	it's got to have everything.
B:	So I just kind of went through,
B:	and I find that most of the magazines I really like is around Christmas time because,
A:	I, I know,
A:	Okay,
A:	basically I can tell you that I like just about every music there is except for, uh, uh, real hard, hard rock,
A:	I really can't get into that
A:	but I go from classical all the way to, uh, jazz and country and uh, soft pop, uh,
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	so I pretty much have a, a wide range of, uh, what I like,
A:	and just, there isn't any particular music that I enjoy more than just listening to all kinds
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah.
A:	so that's about it.
A:	I can even take the
A:	now, it's, it's pretty neat music that they came out with,
A:	so.
B:	I'm pretty much the same way,
B:	but there's like certain types of country western I can't handle that twangy stuff,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	sure,
A:	the old, old stuff that came out, I think it was, was it, oh, jeez, came out with some of that, Hank Williams,
A:	you talk about twangy.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
B:	My in-laws listen to the kind of music I hate
A:	Oh, yeah,
A:	the old, old country,
A:	Yeah.
B:	But other than that, I like pretty much everything.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah,
A:	that's the way I am, too,
A:	so, other than, uh,
A:	as far as instruments, I can go from piano to the saxophone.
A:	Lately, you know, with the new music that has come out, some of the really good, uh, music they have the saxophone playing,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and it's so funny, because you can take an instrument and forget what it really sounds like when it plays by itself.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	uh-huh.
A:	to Oops, are you okay, Tiana, come here honey.
A:	talking to Oh, my daughter just fell.
B:	Do you like Kenny G?
A:	Uh, yeah,
A:	a little bit.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I can, I can pretty much, to
A:	Oh, it's all wet, Tiana.
A:	talking to I just wiped, uh, did the floor,
A:	and she slipped.
B:	On,
B:	no.
A:	Anyway, but, uh, um, yeah,
A:	I can take all kinds of music pretty much except for when you get, like I said, into the real hard rock,
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah,
B:	the heavy metal,
A:	Yeah,
A:	I have no interest in that,
A:	I, I don't have interest of losing my ears,
A:	let's just put it that way, hearing, anyway,
B:	Yeah,
B:	I saw Peter Townsend on T V last night,
B:	and he said he's lost most of his hearing
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	sure.
B:	and I thought, no wonder
B:	so.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	exactly.
B:	Um.
A:	Okay,
A:	well it was good talking to you then.
B:	Well, same here.
A:	Okay.
B:	You all have a good day.
A:	You, too.
B:	Bye-bye.
A:	Bye now.
A:	Okay,
A:	Scott, let's, uh, talk about advice that we can offer a parent where the child is going to go to a university
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Do you have any?
A:	and,
B:	Do you have any kids
B:	or,
A:	I have some, yes, some children.
A:	I have three boys.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And they're all quite young
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and so we want to plan for their education
A:	or we're saving right now
A:	and we're getting bonds, and, and, uh, and hopefully finances set aside so that they can choose a college that they want to.
A:	How about yourself?
A:	Do you have any kids?
B:	No,
B:	I'm in, I'm in graduate school right now
A:	So I imagine you've gone through the experience yourself of selecting your college your own college.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah,
B:	definitely.
B:	In fact, I'm even going, uh, selecting again for, for my P H D.
B:	It's, it's a close subject right now
A:	Very good.
B:	Uh,
A:	What, uh, what do you use as a basis to determine which college or university you go to?
B:	Well I use, uh, uh, uh, I have used, uh, several techniques depending on what,
B:	for undergraduate, I, I, you know, my criteria were much different than than like for graduate school.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh, when I, when I wanted to go to an undergraduate institution, I was looking for something that was, you know, rather small and easy to get around, you know. And what I would, what I thought would be easy to get through.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah
A:	what you thought, huh.
B:	Yeah
B:	And, and, uh, my choice of graduate schools was, uh, you know, it changed a whole lot.
B:	I, I got to where I, I wanted to, uh, graduate with a little, you know, with a name behind me, rather than, uh
A:	Just the degree itself.
B:	yeah,
B:	yeah.
A:	Well, that's a, that's, that's good, because I did quite a bit the same thing in my undergraduate work.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I wanted to get a school that was small enough, that was personable that you didn't have a lecture, uh, hall with about fifteen other students competing for the professor's attention
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah.
A:	and, uh, but you, I felt that I got a pretty good, uh, undergraduate, uh,
B:	Where, where did you go?
A:	I went to Utah State University which is in Logan, Utah
B:	Okay.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and the nice thing about it too is, I knew that I wanted to get into business and that their business, College of Business, was accredited
A:	and well known at least there in the State of Utah and around the surrounding states and so forth.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And so I, I feel like, number one, you you also need to see what kind of name the,
A:	like you mentioned before, the name the college and university can, can give you and another thing that, uh, another reason why I chose that was the, the finances.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I wanted to make sure that I would be able to afford it, that I wouldn't get through four, three years of the undergraduate work and, and have to leave.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, so I did a lot of talking with friends, with family with, uh, counselors at high school, and also read some, some books on, on the subject at the, at the library.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, it was kind of unusual because my, my two older brothers and I all went to three different universities, depending on what our choice was.
A:	So.
B:	Right.
A:	Hopefully we, we chose the one that was best for us,
A:	and I, I felt very comfortable and good about that.
A:	So.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Do you, do you worry, do you worry any about, uh, uh, being able,
B:	I mean, obviously you've taken precautions, you know, or measures to, uh, try and pay for your children's education,
B:	but do you think that that's going to be enough?
A:	I don't think so.
B:	No.
A:	I don't know.
A:	The, the way that tuition is increasing, um, exponentially it's, it's, it's kind of hard to set aside money and have that money grow at the same pace that the college tuition is increasing.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I, uh,
B:	I, all I, all I can hope for is that I land a professorship at a nice heavy university.
A:	And that, that your children can use the benefits of that university.
B:	Yeah
A:	Well, that's an excellent idea,
A:	that's an excellent idea.
A:	One thing that, uh, that we did, uh, and my parents, and our family, is that we weren't able to afford, um, the kind of education that we all desired.
A:	So my parents stressed that we get excellent grades so that we apply and try for scholarships
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and, uh, scholarships were very beneficial in my case to help pay for my education, because my parents couldn't.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And what the scholarship could not supply I was able to, to work for and and save and, and, and get.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Also, my, my brother, um, he's a, he's a medical doctor right now.
A:	He had to, you know,
A:	once he got past his undergraduate and graduate degree, he had to take out some loans,
A:	and he's, he's working to pay those off.
B:	Yeah.
A:	So I, I think that the, uh, you know, once you get past, uh, the initial stages of it, that there's different options you can use
A:	and, and, uh the student loans are, are good options.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah,
B:	that's what, that's my biggest option right now.
A:	Yeah
A:	Yes,
A:	and, and as you're well aware that tuition's not,
A:	So, what do you think about a year or two of public service?
B:	Well, I know it's hard for young people to think about giving up their years, you know, their carefree years
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but people that I have known that have done that, like from other countries, especially, from Germany and Finland, um, they are just, they have such a better, more mature, outlook on life
A:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
B:	and I think they're better people because of it,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	they're much more responsible.
B:	I know, um, the church that I go to, um, the young men give two years of their life when they turn nineteen, you know,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	they're encouraged to do that, missionary work,
B:	and I I really believe that the people that do that are better people that make our, society better.
A:	You know, I, I really agree with you.
A:	Um, I, uh, though I've never done that myself, I, I'm, was a basically an education major when I graduated from college
A:	and I accepted a job that at the time was just slightly above the poverty level to teach to, um, very rural children in a very low income district
A:	and I spent a year teaching there
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and I think it was probably one of my largest eye-opening experiences because I come from nice middle class white suburban home
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and I did it, um, for one reason I wanted,
A:	I was working on a masters degree
A:	so I wanted to stay close to where I was working on a masters degree, but also because I just thought that it would be interesting to live some place else so totally different than my own up bringing
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and I,
A:	it changed, it probably changed my political views
A:	it changed my understanding of the world around me
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and I think, um, in fact, if I had to do it all again I, you know,
A:	after that, you know, you never think of it because, I guess because I paid for all of my college education myself, I never thought about doing that because I had all these college loans I'd started paying back.
B:	Huh.
A:	Um, so that was, that was one reason why I never considered it
A:	but now that I'm further along, and I'm still paying these college loans, I, I think realistically, you know, you can have your college loans delayed now, because I had them delayed because I'm back in graduate school at thirty years old,
B:	Yeah.
A:	um, I had them delayed because I'm back in graduate school and on that form it says if your joining the Peace Corps you can have them delayed
B:	Huh. and rattling in
A:	and I thought that was, you know, very interesting
A:	and I, I would have thought of that earlier
A:	I probably would have done, you know, just like, is that, is this, is that the Mormon church, that does that?
B:	Yes.
B:	Yes.
A:	Because one of my neighbors, uh, did that in Pittsburgh, from Pittsburgh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And I thought, you know, that really,
A:	now that I'm thirty years old, I think that one or two years out of my life would have,
A:	probably like you said, to be able to travel some place else whether it be the United States or outside the country, I think it would have been a very good, um, experience for me.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Well, I think so,
B:	it puts you out on your own
B:	and and in a time after high school, um, there's kind of a selfishness,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I mean, teenagers in our country are kind of, kind of a year that parents don't look forward to and, and things like that
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and I think that it would help people to become, less self-centered, and to be more responsible when you're out on your own trying to, um, thinking less of your own needs but, of other people.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
A:	And I think, you know, we have such a need now, you know,
A:	I taught, you know,
A:	I, I think I was paid, uh, about nine thousand dollars to teach for the year
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and I worked in a very rural school district
A:	and I, I, one of the things I taught was a computer class
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and these kids, um, you know, every girl I taught, except for one, was pregnant.
B:	Oh, no.
A:	Many of the boys in the room had children
A:	and they were, they were high school juniors.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And I just,
A:	there, you know, they came from poverty,
A:	they were going to condition in poverty
A:	and it was, it was, the school district couldn't hire many people,
A:	it was very difficult for them to hire,
A:	and I think, you know, in the sense, that aspect of public service for education in some of the inner cities for, um, just social workers in some of the inner cities and some of the rural areas where they just need advice on medical, um, things, I think it's a really good idea. And even if it is overseas.
B:	Right.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	See, I never,
A:	I, I tell you sometimes I worry about things over seas because we have such problems right here in our own country.
B:	Yes.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	It would really, um,
B:	and I don't
B:	the people that I've known like from Germany and Finland that have done that are, they do military service which, you know, I don't exactly recommend
A:	Yeah.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
B:	but still they have benefited from it.
A:	Right.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, um, you know, although I wouldn't want it to make people to go off to the military voluntarily
B:	but it's, it has helped them
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and they are just a lot more mature, than the average student
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and like she's washing
A:	Yeah.
A:	I think it would also help them if they then went on to college.
A:	I know that my first couple of years of college were, um, uh, probably too carefree at the, beginning
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and then at the end I had to be too serious.
B:	Well, that's right.
B:	A lot of people they flunk out
B:	or they get, they just get so excited to be away from home, they just spend all there time partying
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and they do a lot of things to themselves that, that we really don't want our young people to be doing
A:	Yeah,
A:	that's true.
B:	and,
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	that's right.
B:	Um.
A:	I,
A:	yeah,
A:	I think, I think this was, this was a very interesting topic uh, because it's something that, you know, we don't talk about in this country probably enough.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh, you know,
B:	because we're so, we love our freedom and our freedom of choice and, um, having people like
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah,
A:	Is that what it was?
B:	I do some, I'm a graduate student in Psych.
A:	Oh, okay.
B:	And we sort of, you know, figure out,
B:	um, I know a little bit about that kind of stuff.
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	What they're trying to do there is, they want to sort of get a base line measure for you, you know.
B:	How is it that when you see these things and, you know,  and, and, and,
A:	Huh-uh.
A:	Kind of get,  Kind of get something to measure my responses by.
B:	Yeah.
B:	But with them they have no idea if you're just sort of jumping,  around and being fidgety,
A:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Maybe .
B:	It can be shocking
B:	and,  shock you.
A:	Yeah
A:	they ask why I was going,
A:	what in the world are you asking me about here. But I guess, I don't know, some people have probably killed their mothers.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I don't know
B:	Yeah,
B:	well, I guess so,
A:	Yeah
B:	Big jump there. But, yeah,
A:	Yeah.
B:	I think it's their way of saying how well you do,  in a shock situation without worrying about,  stuff like that.
A:	Huh-uh.  I never thought about that,
A:	that makes me feel a little better
A:	Of course, that was years and years ago.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I wouldn't worry about that.
A:	because in society a lot of people are taking drugs.
A:	There is also people that are getting off drugs and trying to do better with their lives.
A:	But they take a lie detector test or a drug test, or whatever
A:	and the stuff that happened to them, you know, five years ago comes up
A:	and it spoils their chances for just making it a little better.
A:	You know, when they might be actually trying to,  improve their lives.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
B:	That's, uh, you know, it, it could blow things right away for them, you know.
A:	Huh-uh. Huh-uh.
B:	Unless they say, well, look, unless they walk in, they could walk in and say, look, I did do drugs a year ago,
B:	and I'm off them for a year now.
B:	I'll be happy to take the test,
B:	but it will show up positive.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
B:	versus,
A:	I would probably do that.
A:	And I would probably bring something in showing that I had been to such and such hospital for help or, you know,  Whatever the twelve month program.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Or whatever it is that they do.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Because, I mean then, although then, they can't legally discriminate, I think on the basis .
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	But I don't really know.
B:	I don't know what the laws are pertaining to this.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
B:	My wife probably does.
A:	I'm not sure what they are either.
B:	I don't, I don't .
A:	Yeah.
B:	But, it's an interesting topic that I never actually thought about .
A:	Yeah.
A:	The other day we had talked about, uh, capital punishment.
B:	Oh, I .
A:	And I really, really hadn't thought about it.
A:	I mean, I think about it because I hear about it,
A:	but I hadn't had to sit down and, and well, what do I think about it
A:	You know, and that's kind of like today.
A:	I'm not real sure what I think about it.
A:	I'm kind of, you know, in the middle on that one.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Well, these are tough.
B:	I sort of like that stuff,
B:	it makes you think.
A:	Huh-uh.
A:	Really,
A:	really.
B:	So I think that's real good.
A:	Okay.
A:	It was very nice talking to you.
B:	Nice talking to you to.
A:	Okay.
A:	Take care.
B:	Bye-bye.
A:	Bye-bye.
A:	Well, I think we pay too much in taxes.
B:	Yeah.
A:	How about you?
B:	Well, I think they waste what we pay.
A:	Excuse me?
B:	I think they waste what, all the money that we pay
A:	Yeah,
A:	that's what I think too.
A:	I don't know how you feel, um,
A:	we moved here from another state.
A:	We lived here before, went out and came back,
A:	and that particular state had an occupational income tax, but no sales tax.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And what you find out is, there's, one evil is the same as the other.
A:	Here you don't, there's no occupational tax
A:	but it's a heavy sales tax.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	So they get you coming and going.
B:	Now it's even, it's even higher in Dallas County,
B:	so.
B:	Was it. *listen
A:	Yeah,
A:	it's really, I know, it's just, um.
B:	It's eight and a quarter I think.
A:	Yeah,
A:	it is.
A:	I was shocked.
A:	I went,
A:	we bought a new washer
A:	and the man said, and that's eight percent.
A:	I said, eight percent. What
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	So it's really kind of sad,
A:	yeah.
A:	And then I don't know how, you know, in terms of when you all do your federal,
B:	Yeah.
A:	Is that what you think?
B:	Yeah,
B:	because it's, at some point it goes up to thirty-three percent
B:	and then the people that make, you know, five hundred thousand dollars and, and, and higher than that, they don't have to pay,
B:	and sometimes they have to pay even less taxes.
A:	Doesn't seem quite fair, does it?
B:	No,
B:	it isn't.
A:	Because they have the money to shelter things
A:	and, I don't know, somehow get a, huh
B:	What?
A:	Oh, I thought you were going to say something.
B:	Huh-uh.
A:	They somehow seem to get around these,
A:	the things that we can't, you know,
A:	that make, don't make that kind of money.
B:	Right.
A:	I don't know.
B:	I mean, if they're in business, and, and they're making money,
B:	I could see if they're losing money,
B:	but they're making money
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	then they should pay taxes then.
A:	I know,
A:	and just somehow it doesn't seem, you know,
A:	and then, I, you
A:	mean you look at like, uh, that country singer, uh, what's his name, Willie Nelson.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Why didn't he pay his taxes? You know. *listen
B:	Right.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	In a way, it's almost like he had so much debt that, uh, filing bankruptcy was a way to get out of all of it you know.
B:	Right.
A:	So. Do you file federal or joint income tax, And do you feel like you get hit by, you know, too much?
B:	I just file federal income tax every year.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I just got divorced,
B:	so I'm single again.
B:	So, and you know, it's, it's a lot worse for single people, because they pay the same amount as, as the people that make the same amount of money and they're married.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	And we, right now, we don't own any property.
A:	We lease.
A:	So we're in the same,
A:	we don't have children,
A:	so we're in the same kind of,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	it's not as bad as being single and divorced,
A:	but it's sort of like, if you have like X point five children and earn, you know, you kind of get hit with, you know,
A:	I, I mean, it doesn't even pay for me to earn a good wage, because,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	But, I mean, there's actually less tax implication if I don't work full time compared to what my husband does, you know. *are the final "you knows" tags?
B:	Right.
A:	So it's kind of hard.
B:	Whoever works less, they can get a tax credit for that.
A:	Excuse me.
B:	If both of the, both of the spouses work, then you get a tax credit for that.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Right.
A:	Yeah
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	otherwise you're just, you know,
A:	and if you have kids, you get like seven hundred fifty dollars or something
B:	Well, it's two thousand now.
A:	Oh, it is.
B:	Yeah,
B:	for everybody.
A:	Oh, my.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Well that's not too bad.
B:	Then you get a, you get a child care exemption,
B:	but it's not enough, you know.
B:	I mean, you pay from fifty to a hundred dollars a week in child care
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, and they only give you like, I think it's about five or ten percent of that.
A:	Oh, my goodness.
B:	You know, it doesn't even, it's not even,
A:	Yeah.
A:	I guess that's my call.
A:	I guess I better go
B:	Oh, okay.
A:	Okay,
A:	well it was nice talking to you.
B:	Nice talking to you.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	bye-bye.
A:	What part of the country are you in?
B:	Uh, Pennsylvania.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Oh, you are?
A:	East or west, I'm from Pittsburgh. *listen
B:	Oh, are you really?
A:	Yeah.
B:	What part of Pittsburgh?
A:	Um, the South Hills area, Beaver County, well originally Beaver County .
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, where are you from?
B:	Uh, Clarion County.
A:	Oh, okay,
A:	I know where that is.
B:	I we live out in the country.
A:	Yeah,
A:	that's pretty out there.
A:	What, well,
B:	Yeah,
B:	we have, we have two children that live in Pittsburgh
A:	Oh, okay,
A:	yeah,
A:	I got my brother and my whole family there.
A:	I'm, I'm talking to you from Dallas right now.
B:	Oh, oh, you are?
A:	Uh-huh
B:	Do you work, do you work for Texas Instruments then?
A:	No,
A:	my husband does.
B:	Oh, uh-huh.
A:	And who, how about you?
B:	No,
B:	I'm just, Uh, federal company, you know,
A:	place that, that needed this. *listen--not sure who's saying what
B:	so, yeah.
A:	Well that's okay.
A:	I guess it's an easy thing to do.
A:	So you're you have a big,
A:	do you have a rural house or what do you have?
B:	Uh, we have a big old farmhouse that we've you know, remodeled.
A:	Oh, that's a,
A:	Those are beautiful.
B:	It had been, you know, of course, a farm.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	It's a farm community,
B:	and we.
A:	Yeah,
A:	is it a, is it a working farm
A:	or is it?
B:	Ours is not a working farm
A:	More, more,
A:	I can understand that,
A:	that's probably what I would, uh,
B:	Yeah,
B:	I have a garden
B:	but you know,
B:	we have a garden.
A:	Yeah
B:	But we don't farm.
A:	I can hear the accent now
A:	I hear the I hear the Western Pennsylvania, um.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	We live, uh, we lived in Minneapolis for about five years.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	We, we originally lived in Dallas
A:	and we met and got married
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and then, um, actually married in Pittsburgh,
A:	and that's, that's not what they want to hear on this call, uh
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	at any rate we came back here with,
A:	my husband was transferred around, uh, up to Minnesota and now back to Texas with T I
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and we're leasing a, uh, two story town home in a section of Dallas they call North Dallas.
B:	Oh, uh-huh.
A:	And it's, uh, near a little town called Plano,
A:	well, it's not little any more.
B:	Uh, Grapevine,
B:	do you know Grapevine?
A:	Uh, yes,
A:	that's out near the airport.
A:	That's about forty-five miles from us.
B:	Yeah,
B:	my brother has a home there he's trying to sell.
B:	He, he's living now up, uh, in, in Maryland
B:	but, uh, he, lived in Grapevine for a long time.
A:	It's,
A:	yeah,
A:	That's why we not sure, we, we're not sure we want to, uh, buy down here, because we actually, we lived up north long enough to appreciate the, um, *listen--one utt?
A:	Minneapolis-Saint Paul is very clean
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	uh-huh.
A:	you know, in terms of, *listen; with previous slash unit?
A:	and in terms of housing down here, um, you really have your pick
A:	but it's just everything's overpriced for the economy.
B:	Oh, it's terrible.
B:	I,
A:	It really is,
A:	I mean we're, we're in a leased town home,
A:	and it's, uh, you're probably, your teeth will probably fall out figuratively speaking, it's nine hundred a month.
B:	Oh, I'm not surprised.
A:	But, you know what,
A:	if you, if you get anything under five hundred you get into what they call high density living you know, the big apartment complexes
B:	Uh, right,
B:	right.
B:	Right,
B:	right.
A:	and, and I just have no tolerance for that.
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah,
B:	it's not good
A:	No.
B:	And the people think the income is really great in some of those areas
B:	but when they sit down and look at what it costs to live
B:	and, uh, of course, most of the homes are, you know, fairly nice,
B:	they're, uh, done up fairly nice, uh,
A:	Yeah
A:	this is, it's like a duplex,
A:	like a two by two they call it like in Pittsburgh.
B:	Right,
B:	uh-huh, Uh-huh.
A:	And it's nice
A:	but it's, I mean, the girl bought it for a hundred and ten,
A:	and now she can't sell it.
A:	And our neighbors,
B:	Well, prices have come down on the homes, the duplexes.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I mean, we'll, our neighbors, the attached on the other side, they're very nice, thank God,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	they paid fifty-eight for it.
B:	Oh, my heaven.
A:	That's how bad it,
A:	I know.
B:	Well, I know up in Connecticut the same thing happened, people are devastated because they paid so much for their home.
A:	That's right.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	yeah.
A:	I have some friends that live in Westport
A:	and it's really, really bad.
A:	I mean you,
B:	But we like our area.
B:	It, like I said, it's, it's an old house and everything
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but, uh,
A:	How far, where is Clarion County in relation to, actually,
A:	because we're considering moving to Pennsylvania
B:	Well, we're about a hundred miles from Pittsburgh north.
A:	That's not too bad.
A:	That's north.
B:	And yeah,
B:	and it's, it's really not, you know, not that far.
A:	Are you going up toward, uh, uh,
A:	I'm trying to think of the name of that town that starts with an M,
A:	Bradford, no that's too far north.
B:	Bradford's north of us.
A:	So you're, you're not that far north then,
A:	okay.
B:	No,
B:	no.
A:	Well, you're really not too bad.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Um, was it a home that you've had for quite a few years,
A:	or that you've,
B:	Well, we've been here since sixty-six.
A:	Oh, then you have,
A:	yeah.
A:	Do you have a lot of land
A:	or,
B:	Uh, we have fifty acres.
A:	Oh, my,
A:	well, then.
B:	Oh, pardon me,
B:	we have forty,
B:	we gave ten to one of our children
A:	There you go.
A:	Did you have a hard time getting used to,
A:	do you feel like you live in an isolated area
A:	or,
B:	No,
B:	not really,
B:	and, and towns keep creeping closer and closer, you know.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I think that that's, um,
A:	I can remember in Pittsburgh when,
A:	this has to do with homes, uh, indirectly
A:	but I can remember when Upper Saint Clair was out in the, you know, the rural end of Washington,
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	uh-huh.
A:	and now it's it's a terrible connection.
B:	Yeah,
B:	it's ours up here.
B:	We have,
B:	our rural connections are real bad
A:	Oh, well that's okay, um,
B:	But we, but we live about ten miles from probably three or four, not large towns but, you know, reasonable.
A:	But, but,
A:	yeah,
A:	substantially, you know.
A:	Um, do you like living in an older home and restoring it like that?
B:	Uh, yeah,
B:	we're tired of doing it though.
B:	We, we don't want to do too much more
A:	How big is it?
A:	How many square feet do you have?
B:	Uh, oh, golly,
B:	I really.
A:	Well how many rooms do you think,
A:	yeah?
B:	We have, uh, uh, four rooms downstairs, and a pantry
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and upstairs we have a bath, a bath, oh
B:	we, have a half bath downstairs, too.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	We have a bath upstairs, and one, two, three, four bedrooms and a sewing room and a junk room
B:	And, uh,
A:	A junk room,
A:	yeah
A:	I understand,
A:	we have that too.
A:	That's, that's large if your children aren't at home any more.
B:	Pardon?
A:	That's large if your kids aren't at home any more.
B:	Well, it really isn't too big yet.
B:	We, we
B:	a lot of people say that
B:	but, um, it's,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	we just like it real well Yeah,
A:	It's enough space for two people
A:	Yeah.
B:	we had five children,
B:	so and they've all moved you know, on.
A:	Oh, okay.
B:	They're all out on their own now.
A:	Yeah,
A:	right.
A:	That's okay.
A:	Well, we've got, um,
A:	this town house is pretty big.
A:	It's about eighteen hundred square feet.
A:	It's got three bedrooms, two and a half baths
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	um, it's really nice.
B:	Well, it sounds like a good buy.
A:	Yeah,
A:	it is,
A:	I mean, I would never buy it
A:	but leasing it is fine.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Um, but, it's just again, the, the privacy, you know.
A:	Um, we had a house in Minneapolis that was on three acres,
A:	and my husband was raised, um, on a working farm near
B:	Oh, that makes a big difference.
A:	right,
A:	near Dayton, Ohio,
A:	and he said, you know,
A:	he's, he's slowly getting me to, um, not feel isolated if we move to where there's more land.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	You really aren't isolated because it's,
B:	the advantages,
B:	your home is far enough away that you're not bothered by being too close to people,
A:	Right.
B:	but yet you can have your friends, uh,
B:	you can have them in,
B:	you can go out.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	You have more of a choice,
B:	you're not pressed upon as bad.
A:	That's kind of what, like
A:	his parents have, uh, land that they retired to, um, about a hundred miles out of Atlanta and, in Georgia,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and it is too far south for me,
B:	Uh, uh-huh. Uh-huh.
A:	but, um, um, but I mean, they have one of the, um,
A:	when they said log cabin, I just laughed,
A:	that they retired to,
A:	but they built one of these.
A:	I mean, it's just beautiful.
A:	It's like a custom, you know
A:	it's not like what I would think of when I think of old log cabins.
A:	You know, I mean, it's modern
A:	it's,
B:	More luxury.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	uh-huh.
A:	Right,
A:	right,
A:	it's modern,
A:	it's beautiful,
A:	it's country
B:	Right,
B:	yeah.
A:	it's you know, um,
A:	but, uh, I don't,
A:	what else about housing except it's, uh, well,
A:	Pittsburgh's housing economy, I think it's holding it's own.
B:	Uh, they're,
B:	yeah,
B:	I suppose they are now.
B:	We,
B:	both of our children who live there have just bought a home. Uh, in the Mount Lebanon area.
A:	What part, what sections are they in?
A:	Yeah,
A:	that's nice.
B:	And, uh, the one, the one boy, the house they bought is completely livable.
B:	They didn't have to do much to it.
A:	Great.
B:	The other one is, uh, uh, has, you know, needs more work done.
B:	It's twenty years old, I think.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, but they have two children, too,
B:	and they, they bought what they could afford.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	That's,
A:	yeah,
A:	a really good friend of mine lives in Penn Hills,
A:	and they've been in their house, oh, probably about twelve years now
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and, um, it's, it's, you know,
A:	they're going to start to see their return on their investment very soon.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Um, but it's a beautiful home
A:	and, I mean, my brother lives,
B:	They are beautiful homes.
A:	is it called Baldwin or Bebble?
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	uh-huh.
A:	I mean, he lives all in that same area going from Mount Lebanon, um,
A:	it's real pretty up there.
A:	It's just,
B:	It is,
B:	it's real nice.
A:	And the neighborhoods are stable you know.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	It's, uh,
A:	when you come to this part of the country, we've been away from Dallas long enough that you see the difference in housing.
B:	Oh, my
B:	you you do when you
B:	When we first got married, uh,
B:	my husband works for the state,
B:	and we moved once a year usually
A:	Oh, my goodness.
B:	And then after they had to start paying to move us, that suddenly wasn't necessary any more
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	That's what it is here,
A:	yeah,
A:	that's why we're at a point now we've, uh, we're adopting
A:	and we have been married ten plus years
A:	and what happens is, uh, you just realize that once you get to a certain age the next house that you get we'll be staying in Yeah,
B:	Right, yeah,
B:	you have to stop some place,
B:	yeah.
A:	that's kind of like where we're,
B:	Yeah.
A:	so we're considering Pennsylvania,
A:	and we're just kind of, you know, toying with what exactly, where we want to be, you know.
B:	Uh-huh. I do too,
A:	A lot of people say it doesn't matter where they live if they have a nice house
A:	and, but I disagree with that,
A:	I.
B:	I've heard too many people say, I hate it here.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	You know, they buy a place
B:	and they just hate the area.
A:	I know,
A:	and it, and the economy here in Dallas, I mean, it, it's steady,
A:	but it's still not going up.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And I, um, I just refuse to buy it, um, if I know I'm not going to be there for at least five years, uh, you, you know.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah,
B:	well, my brother, they're having trouble selling their home, see.
A:	Oh, I'm sure,
A:	yeah,
A:	there, I mean, you can go down a street,
A:	and here, he told you this, every other house, you know, if it's been foreclosed on or, you know, even big executives
B:	Right,
B:	uh-huh.
B:	Oh, yeah,
B:	yeah.
A:	um, it's really, I mean,
A:	and, and it's hard to sell the properties.
A:	People from J C Penney's from New York, came here about a couple of years ago.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	uh-huh.
A:	And they thought they were getting a great deal, um, because they could get a five hundred thousand dollar home with, they call it, zero lot lines, no property, And it would make you ill to see this.
B:	Oh, uh-huh.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I mean it would probably be like your house on, uh, you know, a half a city block in Pittsburgh or something.
B:	I, I couldn't handle that
A:	Yeah,
A:	I know,
A:	and that's, you know, like
A:	I can look outside right now and look into the next unit.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	You know, it's across the way,
A:	and it's landscaped and all that with azaleas,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but it's still, it's still not that private.
B:	I get tired, uh, sometimes, mowing, because we mow, you know, a good bit of ground around the house area.
A:	Yeah
A:	but you have a rider.
B:	And I do get tired of that
B:	but, uh, I don't know,
B:	I don't think I'd want to change it.
A:	No,
A:	and your kids have,
A:	to tell you the truth, um, I think that if you can keep that, that way, you know, kind of like a homestead,
B:	Hello.
A:	Hi, uh,
A:	basically, I wear pants.
A:	I'm a real pants person
A:	and, uh, like when I'm at home since,
A:	and I'll say, I'm a homemaker since that's my basic thing, uh,
A:	I wear a pantsuit most of the time.
A:	Not a pantsuit,
A:	I guess pants and a shirt
A:	and, uh, in the summertime I wear cotton tops.
A:	Cotton top shirts
A:	and in the winter I wear, uh, like sweaters.
A:	I like sweaters a lot.
A:	And so I do that.
A:	But when I go out for meetings uh, then I will wear either, uh, skirts or, uh, a dress
A:	and I have a couple of pantsuits because those are real in at this time,
A:	but, that's basically what I do.
B:	Well, I think our tastes are fairly similar,
B:	although I am I government worker, I do tend to,
B:	I'm, uh, a scientist.
A:	Oh.
B:	So that technically,
B:	I suppose, I could get away with, with extremely casual clothes,
B:	but, for the most port, part I don't.
B:	I wear fairly respectable looking shoes
B:	and and a pantsuit of one sort or another
A:	Right.
B:	and, uh, I guess dress it up with a, with a, a very nice black jacket when I have, have visitors or have to give talks.
A:	Well, that sounds nice.
B:	Right.
A:	Uh, it said the seasons,
A:	do, do you change much through the season
A:	or,
B:	No,
B:	actually I guess this summer I, I wore some fairly nice jeans uh, more than I have in previous seasons.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But, uh, no,
B:	I tend to, to use the same things because actually our offices are very cold in summer.
B:	I don't know whether they think by, you know, freezing them up overnight, then they can save electricity during the day or something.
A:	Maybe.
B:	But but, you know, you wear a heavy sweater in your office, all summer.
A:	No.
B:	So, right,
B:	uh, yeah,
B:	I don't, I don't, I, you know, I'm not a clothes horse in the sense that some of my friends.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And I guess although in, as I recall the stereotype of, of secretaries was, you know, overdress, over kill, sort of
A:	Yeah.
B:	and in a in a sense, the people I know who spend the most on clothes are secretaries.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Although the fact that most of the ones I know are in the government and they're not meeting the public it, I find it a little bit strange that their priorities would, would be to spend this money here
A:	Right.
B:	You know,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I mean, I suppose if you were a, a, more a receptionist and meeting the public and it was the image of your company at stake perhaps you would have to dress up.
A:	Then
A:	Uh, well, I don't have the resources to just go out and buy, buy, buy anyway
A:	and so my don't change dramatically over the years.
A:	If I need something new, I will go and buy it.
A:	But, basically I'm a, a pretty much the same
A:	in the summertime I wear the light cotton
A:	and in the wintertime I change to the sweaters.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	uh-huh.
A:	And, so, it's not a whole lot of, of change for me either.
A:	And, uh, especially when I go to the meetings and wear the dresses
A:	I, I, I enjoy that,
A:	but it just wouldn't be, uh, smart for me to do that in my home with my children.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	So, I have to, uh, think about things like that, too.
A:	I have given seminars before in, in creative writing and things like that.
A:	Now, I don't know if they consider that a job.
A:	I don't really get paid for that, uh, often,
A:	but, uh, when I do that then I, I think I become more businesslike.
A:	Uh, but it doesn't really change my clothing style.
B:	Exactly.
B:	I mean, you can look businesslike in, in a the same pant suit you would, you know wear for other things.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I'm, I'm really glad about that pant suits are popular because I'm allergic to many of the synthetics.
A:	Oh.
B:	And so I used to have a problem when, when I was working in a restaurant while I was in college and had to dress up, and nylons and things like that would just give me a terrible rash.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Oh, dear.
A:	That's not helpful.
B:	right.
B:	But otherwise, now, I'm, I guess we're both pretty practical
A:	Yeah,
A:	I guess so
A:	Well, it's been great talking to you.
B:	Okay.
A:	Have a great day.
B:	Well, have a good day.
A:	Bye.
B:	Bye-bye.
A:	What do you think?
B:	Well, uh, this is, this is about drug testing right?
A:	Right.
B:	Well, uh, I'm, I'm certainly under the, uh, uh, the influence of the idea that, that the government needs to have less control on what, uh, what the citizens do,
B:	although I do see this as a, uh, something that definitely needs to be taken care of.
B:	Whether that, whether that should be put in the hands of the corporation or the, the hands of the, hands of the government is a, you know, a, a different question I think, as far as I'm concerned.
B:	in, in other words, I am in favor of drug or, or, or drug testing.
B:	Uh, I was drug tested when I came to my job here at T I.
B:	Yet but, but at the same time, I don't think, uh, that should be governed by by the government, uh, per se.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I think it should be more by the private institution.
B:	How about you?
A:	Yeah,
A:	I think that the corporations should, uh, do all that.
A:	They should, uh, have drug screening before they hire an employee
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and, uh, any time that an employee,
A:	like if they're coming to late work all the time and, uh if they, if they're, especially if there's they're on the line or any kind of sensitive job where, you know, if they can, if they made a mistake, it would cost a lot of money or
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Sure.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I, I agree with you.
B:	I, you know, I would even think that, uh, uh, I could, in theory take that a a, you know, a step further and say anybody in any job, you know, if the corporation felt like, uh,
B:	and this is why, I mean, uh, drugs are the biggest problem, I think to face America today.
B:	I mean it's what drives crime,
B:	it's what drives, uh, uh, any sort of, of, uh, uh, pain and discomfort in the world, or in America I think is is somewhat, uh, uh, driven by drugs
B:	and I think that, uh, were corporations and, uh, private industry to take, uh, take command in this situation, that maybe, maybe we might have some, some control over that.
B:	We, you know,
B:	if you can't work, then you can't be a little bit harder to take, take drugs or whatever,
B:	I don't know.
B:	Course, that might up crime, you know, when, uh, people go in and steal your television and and sell it just because they can't, they can't work anymore, you know.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah,
A:	but you got to have a, a safe work place.
A:	That's all there is to it.
B:	Definitely,
B:	you, you're definitely right.
B:	That, uh, you can't, you can't have it any other way.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh, you know, whether whether in, in the case that you brought up, you know, whether, uh, you know,
B:	if it's a policeman and he's working with, uh, the public and he has a, and has a gun in his holster or, or even, you know, if it's a guy at McDonald's cooking a burger, I think, they're dangerous in either situation.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh, I,
B:	what, what do you think, uh,
B:	what percentage of, of corporations and, uh, private industry do you think use, uh, drug testing?
A:	I think it's, it's more frequent now.
A:	It's probably like forty, fifty percent.
B:	Oh, really?
A:	Yeah.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Because, uh, all the jobs that I've applied for have, uh, mentioned some type of drug screening. Uh, I work at Sears.
B:	Right.
B:	What kind of work are you in?
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And I just do warehouse work.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	and did they give you drug testing?
A:	Uh, not,
A:	they hired me in nineteen eighty-four
B:	Oh.
B:	Okay.
A:	But now they, they, uh, they issued a statement about that, about three months ago.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Oh, so are they going to, uh, begin spontaneous, uh, drug testing?
A:	Uh, not that I know of.
A:	It was more about, uh, all the people's problems.
A:	Like they've been laying off a lot of people.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Oh, yeah.
A:	And, uh, and, uh, they sent out the employee assistance cards for anyone that had any sort of drug problem or work related problem.
B:	Sure.
A:	Family problems, you know. They kind of covered everything.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	But I know they have a lot of drug problems
A:	so,
B:	Yeah.
B:	What do you think about, uh, you know,
B:	something that kind of concerns me is, uh, you know, you and I are tested for, for whatever work we happen to do.
B:	Do you think there should be drug testing for political officials?
A:	Yes,
A:	I do.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I do, too.
A:	Because, because a lot of them are, you know, they're hypocritical.
A:	They, they talk against drugs
B:	Yeah.
A:	and then they get caught, you know.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	In stings in Washington. *one utt with a.61
B:	Yeah.
A:	Whether it's drugs or any other kind of, uh,
A:	like the, the money laundering scams. All that was drug related.
B:	Oh, yeah.
A:	So, and that cost us, the country, you know, billions of dollars.
B:	Sure,
B:	sure,
B:	yeah.
A:	So,
B:	I would agree with you.
B:	I, I can't see, I can't see how we can expect the, you know, uh, uh, people working in the, in, in America to, uh, to put any trust into our political officials if they don't, you know, uh,
B:	just doesn't make sense to have them to, to worry about legislation unless they're doing that themselves.
A:	Doug, you want to start?
B:	Sure.
A:	You don't use any credit cards, I don't imagine.
B:	No.
B:	Of course I use, credit cards.
B:	I have a couple of credit cards and, uh, use them.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	do you use them a lot?
B:	Oh, we try not to.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	We're on a pretty strict and tight budget.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	We use the credit cards, however, when we're at a situation where we don't have either the cash or the checkbook handy.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Or we use credit cards also, if we want to get an extended warranty on an item that we're purchasing.
B:	So. So, yes,
A:	Oh, well, that's an idea,
A:	that's a thought,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	and basically we use it mainly when we're traveling or out of state or or somewhere where, you know, they don't take local, they don't take out of state checks
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and so when we're traveling some.
B:	Do you use credit cards often?
A:	My husband loves them
A:	Uh, we do use them.
A:	Uh, we try not to,
A:	but, he, he's one who believes in credit cards,
A:	and he uses them quite a bit.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	He likes using them and then just pay at the end of the month
B:	Oh, yeah,
B:	well that's, that's a good thing, because lot of people don't pay at the end of the month
A:	He, he likes that,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and they just pay the minimum required balance.
A:	And that's when you get into expenses.
B:	Yes,
A:	Right.
B:	It'll, uh,
B:	some people I know also try to use it as float where they buy something now
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and say, well, I'm going to buy this when it's good and on sale
B:	and then I can go ahead and pay for it when I get my check at the end of the month
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	when I'm being paid.
A:	Right.
A:	Well, sometimes you do come on bargains and that,
A:	and it's really useful.
B:	That's true.
A:	And some places won't take, you know, like personal checks or cash, even
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but they would take a credit card.
B:	Right.
B:	How how are the laws in Pennsylvania, uh, as, as regard, well not the laws, but the rates, credit card rates in Pennsylvania?
B:	For example down here, when you go up to a gas station you get an extra charge for credit cards than you would by paying for cash.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Right.
B:	Are they the same there?
A:	We,
A:	yeah,
A:	we have the same thing up here,
A:	so we don't deal where they do that
A:	We you know, we go to places where they don't charge extra.
A:	Some of them charge five cents a gallon, even,
A:	like the gas stations more,
B:	That's pretty steep.
A:	And, uh, we just try to avoid, you know, the ones that do that,
A:	we just don't, uh, go there because there's enough other ones around that don't charge you anything
B:	Yes.
A:	extra because actually, to me, credit cards are the same as cash,
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	uh-huh.
A:	to me they are, anyway,
B:	Yes,
B:	because you make the deduction at the time of the purchase
B:	and, and so that the end of the month or when you get your credit card bill are you saying that that way you're not left stranded and high and dry
A:	Right.
A:	Right,
A:	yeah.
A:	Yes.
A:	Yeah,
A:	right.
B:	Very good.
B:	You're, you're one of the good, I guess, good faithful shoppers that don't get into a problem when it comes to budgeting their money.
A:	Well, I can't say we never have.
A:	Now we have, you know, at times, made payments on our things,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but we try not to.
A:	We try hard,
B:	Well, yeah,
B:	well, I see that as an advantage to a credit card, also
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	that you can can find yourselves in those situations and use a credit card to to help yourself.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Right.
A:	Right.
B:	So I think that there's a great advantage to a credit card in those situations.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah,
A:	because sometimes, uh, there's times when you may, maybe couldn't take advantage of something
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but with a credit card you can.
A:	So.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	uh-huh.
B:	Um, do you have, uh, multiple credit cards?
A:	Uh.
B:	And do you find that advantageous
B:	or,
A:	Well, I think we're narrowing it down, actually.
A:	Uh, uh, like I said, my husband likes them,
A:	and we have quite a few,
A:	but we really get, when you get down to the nitty gritty, there's probably three that we use most of the time.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Right.
B:	We're, we're actually in the same boat.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	We like to use three, uh, basic credit cards.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	That way we're not confused
B:	and we don't have an awful lot of expenses or surprises when it comes the end of the month.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	And, do you find that you get an awful lot of credit card applications through the mail?
A:	Oh, yes.
B:	Once a week,
B:	twice a week,
B:	or three times a week.
A:	Well, it's not every week,
A:	but you, you do get them.
A:	They make it very readily available.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Almost too much so.
A:	But I I really don't like it the charges that, you know,
A:	we try to limit, look at that also,
A:	what they charge per year to use our money, you know
B:	Right,
B:	so the annual fee.
B:	Right,
B:	right,
A:	they're charging us to spend our money,
A:	and, I, I'm not real crazy about that,
A:	so we try to look at that also.
B:	Yes,
B:	so there is the basic annual fee for the credit card plus they charge any where from seventeen to twenty-three percent uh, based upon what the state will allow,
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	Right.
A:	Okay,
A:	Miss Nancy, we should be in business now.
B:	Good.
A:	Did you hear the questions that the lady, uh, brought up?
B:	Yes.
A:	Such as how much time, well,
A:	I'll ask,
A:	how much time do you spend with your children,
A:	and how many do you have?
B:	We have two children,
B:	they're both grown and married
B:	and with, we have, uh,
B:	our daughter has three sons,
B:	so we see them at least once a week,
B:	and we see our son and his wife uh, about every other week
B:	and, uh we baby-sit quite frequently.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So we're a fairly close-knit family.
B:	We're together a lot on special days
B:	and, uh, and of course, with the holidays and everything.
A:	Well, you're very fortunate.
A:	Uh, my my, uh,
A:	I have two girls and a son,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And my oldest daughter lives in Amsterdam, Holland.
B:	Oh.
A:	She  Her husband builds pianos,
A:	so it's kind of hard for us to visit with them, as much as I'd like to.  Because we've, we, one thing we do have together is we're both musicians.
B:	Oh, yes.
A:	I play in several symphony orchestras
A:	and,  she is a, a, a concert, uh, harpsichordist. And travels around a good bit in Europe.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Oh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, her husband builds forte pianos,
A:	which are harpsichord size pianos.
B:	Pianos, uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, that's why they're over there.
A:	And then I have a, a son who lives in, uh, Warrington, Pennsylvania.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And I get to see him maybe once every three months.
A:	So I really, we've lost, you know,
A:	I'd like to have an everyday contact with children, uh, as well as you do, for that matter,
A:	and my young , my youngest daughter lives in New Jersey,
A:	and so they,   I don't hardly get to see any of them.
B:	Oh, you don't get to see any of yours very often.
A:	She works in these, um, Trump type casinos,
A:	she and her husband both do.
A:	They work,  uh, they're really both, um play, people who play on stage
B:	Yes,
B:	uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and, uh, they're running lights right now and audio and that thing for,  plays and things that go on.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	But anyhow uh,
A:	what do you, what activities do you do with your children when you are together?
B:	Oh, most the time,
B:	well, right now it's football season,
B:	and our daughter is a big Cowboy fan,
B:	as is our husband,
B:	so, my husband,
B:	so she watches that
B:	and I play with the grandchildren
B:	I enjoy the grandchildren.
B:	But, now, like last weekend, um, there's the Soviet space exhibit is here in Dallas,
B:	and it ends,  uh, in January,
A:	Oh.
B:	so she and, and the three boys and my husband and I went over into Fort Worth to see the space exhibit
B:	and this Sunday,
A:	The Soviet space exhibit?
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	My goodness.
B:	Yeah Oh, it's been here for quite, uh, some time.
A:	I am surprised they would bring anything over here.
B:	I think it came here in either September or October
B:	and,  it's very interesting, very interesting,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	I'll bet.
B:	and it's been very well done
B:	Uh, and this, uh, next Sunday they're coming over after the Cowboy game
B:	and, uh,  uh, we're going to go take the boys to see Christmas lights and go to a Santa's village.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, uh, then when our son's over, we have a pool,
B:	and he and his wife come and a lot of their friends,
B:	and we have cookouts on Sunday uh,
A:	Well, that sounds like you have really,  wonderful activities that keep you together.
B:	And, uh  we, we do a lot with with our kids,
B:	and we we always have.
A:	Yeah. Uh-huh. *slash error, should be 'b'
B:	We've taken a lot of trips with our kids when they were younger.
B:	Uh, we're very family oriented.
B:	We, um,  we like being with our kids,
B:	and the kids seem to enjoy being with us,
B:	and their friends enjoy being with us.
B:	So which that keeps us very, very young, with all these young people passing in and out and eating,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and seems like I've,
A:	The only problem is, it keeps you pretty busy, keeping everything going,
A:	doesn't it?
B:	Well, it does
B:	I'm worried about Christmas.
B:	Christmas Eve they all pass through,
B:	and then they all end up spending the night Christmas Eve night, so that,  we open our presents on Christmas day
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Beautiful.
B:	and they go out to the other, you know, the in-laws in between some of this,
B:	but they're all,  with us,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, uh, then have Christmas dinner with us and then go to other in-laws and things,
B:	so we see a lot of them.
B:	But we enjoy Christmas Eve night, because they all start arriving by about eleven o'clock,
B:	and we open presents about five o'clock Christmas,  morning,
B:	and, you know, and, uh, then,  I go to the kitchen and cook,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and my sister and, and her husband are coming down,
B:	so there's going to be eleven of us for Christmas.
A:	That's great.
A:	There's a,
A:	the question now to ask, is it difficult to find time,
A:	and you seem to be making out all right.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Sometimes I'm a little exhausted
A:	Well, tell me,
A:	what do you think of, uh, of the current trends of how other people spend time with their children and so forth?
B:	Oh, I, I think the trends are going back to spending more time with families.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I think parents are definitely, uh, spending more and more time.
B:	I don't think they're leaving them with baby-sitters, you know.
B:	I think, I think family quality time is becoming much more important than it was there  for about, uh, I don't know, eight or nine years.
A:	Yes.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Seems like it went through a spell there where families weren't that big a deal.
B:	Parents kind of went and did their thing,
B:	kids did their thing. Yes,
A:	Well, that's
A:	no,
A:	that's exactly what I was going to say.
A:	Of, of course, I find now that I spend more time with my grandchildren in detail.
B:	uh-huh.
A:	I know more about them and watch their growth and how they improve and, and learn much more so than my own kids.
A:	When, when your own children are growing up, you just take them for granted
A:	and you go ahead and do your thing
A:	and,
A:	Okay.
A:	Do you have any children?
B:	Uh, yes,
B:	I have a daughter.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	I don't any children
A:	so I'm going to have difficulty with this topic.
B:	Oh, okay.
A:	But, uh, what kinds of things do you and your family do?
B:	Um, well, we go out and fly kites
B:	and we go fishing.
B:	And we go to movies
B:	and we go out to the farm.
B:	And, and, uh, she likes to pick flowers and look at birds.
A:	Um. Then your kind family is probably pretty rare now a days.
A:	I don't see a lot of families fishing and doing things like that.
A:	That's great.
B:	Well, I'm divorced,
B:	but that's what, when she's with me that's what we do.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And we color a lot
B:	and I read her stories.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	That's great.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I think a lot of families now, they probably don't spend enough time together.
B:	Yeah.
A:	You know, whether their parents are together or divorced they don't spend enough time together
A:	and, and I think that contributes to a lot of why society is going downhill right now is because the basic family unit is being destroyed.
A:	Just simply because that time isn't spent just doing things like fishing
A:	and, uh, because that I think that when you spend a lot of time with each other you communicate a lot.
A:	And the communication helps you build on your, uh, helps just, just build your family.
B:	Uh-huh
B:	And even, even when I was, when I was, uh, living with her with did stuff then too, Yeah,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
A:	That's pretty, to me that's pretty rare.
B:	I know.
A:	I like that.
A:	Whenever I do have children I, I'm going to try as hard as I can to see that we spend a lot of time together, you know,
A:	maybe just even, if we just rent a movie and watch it together just to make sure that everybody's not going out and doing and their her own thing all the time.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	You know, that's good sometimes because you need to, you know, get away.
A:	But, um, I don't think you, you should spend too much time outside at the detriment of, of losing your the family unit.
B:	Yeah,
B:	that's right.
B:	Because then you never get to know them either.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	They're all grown up
B:	and their,
A:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
A:	And as I understand it,
A:	I don't know,
A:	I haven't experienced it,
B:	Yeah.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And once they hit like ten or eleven or twelve, you know, you've pretty much lost them
B:	Yeah,
B:	they're out doing stuff by that time.
A:	Yeah.
A:	So, um, do you think that you, do you think that your family is pretty rare in that you do a lot of things or just the relationship between you and your daughter?
B:	Yeah,
B:	I really do because, because I don't see many others
B:	and when, whenever we go to the park or something sometimes on the weekdays, we'll see other families.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But, not usually on the weekends we don't see very many in comparison.
A:	What do you think is the key to, to just bringing the American family back together?
A:	What kinds of things do you think can?
B:	Well, I think they can turn off the T V for one thing. And, and go out and do stuff, you know.
A:	Yeah,
A:	that's true. Huh. I think that's the first thing a lot of people do
B:	Because she always likes to do things whenever the T V off.
B:	You know, she'll forget about the T V completely.
A:	and I know I'm guilty of it.
A:	Like I came in from work today
A:	first thing I did was turn the TV on. Because I taped the stories from earlier today.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Right.
A:	And I like to watch 'em
A:	but, I think that's that is a big problem. The television
A:	and it's, it's too static, you know,
A:	it's something that you can do
A:	but there's no thinking involved, no motion, you know,
A:	and I think, think that's another reason why people are, uh, so health conscious now is because America's becoming really a couch potato society.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	You know, people aren't doing anything just sitting around, you know, no thinking involved
A:	and now, I think I think people are trying to get out of that.
A:	At least
A:	and that, um, there's a lot of um,
A:	it's becoming really health conscious
A:	and that people are you know starting to look out for cholesterol and things like that trying to get out and workout more often and jog and walk and different things like that.
A:	And that's probably good, you know,
A:	if you get your family involved in exercising and maybe playing tennis or something like that, that also helps.
A:	That's also something, you know, family oriented that everyone can do.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Um.
B:	Yeah.
B:	But when was, uh, when she was here last summer we played tennis
B:	but she hasn't brought her tennis racquet over lately.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	When,
A:	How, how old is she?
B:	she's five.
A:	Um. Well, she has,
B:	We, we just been hitting the ball on the ground.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah.
B:	She can't hit it in the air yet,
B:	and then we kick the ball.
B:	We play like soccer.
A:	You've still have a lot of time before she gets up in years
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	That's good.
A:	That's good.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Um. Okay.
A:	Well it was very nice talking to you.
B:	Nice talking to you.
A:	Okay.
B:	Okay.
B:	Bye-bye.
A:	Bye-bye.
B:	So you like to fish, huh?
A:	Yeah,
A:	I like to,
A:	I don't have a boat,
A:	but I like to fish
A:	and there's a lot of lakes around here.
A:	Uh, are there many lakes up there?
B:	Yeah,
B:	actually there are quite a bit of lakes around me.
B:	We uh, we have the, those little, the, the, the Great Lakes, you know,
B:	uh, Lake Ontario is right near here.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Plus, we're in what's called the Finger Lake Region of New York
B:	where there're lots of small lakes everywhere
B:	and these are, uh, real good, uh, for, like, you know, bass fishing and so forth.
A:	They have mostly small mouth in them
A:	or,
B:	No,
B:	we have a, actually quite a lot of variety.
B:	There's, uh, there's,
B:	we have large mouth, small mouth, uh, sort of musky, pike, stuff like that.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	You know, all sorts of fun stuff like that.
B:	Uh, we have a pretty large bass masters tournament actually takes place right on Lake Ontario every year.
A:	Oh, yeah,
A:	that's right,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	So it's, it's, that's, a lot of fun.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	How about you?
B:	Do you like, what do you like to go for?
A:	Oh, it's, it's, uh,
A:	I fish for bass,
A:	but I hardly ever catch one,
A:	but, uh, uh, they have a tail race over in Lake Lavon
B:	Yeah.
A:	and, uh, you know, they wash, when they open up the dam and let out water, they wash down the fish
B:	Um.
A:	Every once in a while there'll be striped bass.
B:	We have, uh, some friends who live on the lake
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, it, the lake it just seems, is, is completely filled with bass to the point where, you know, normally you go, go fishing for bass, you get a lot of sunfish, or, or cat or whatever, and some other strange stuff. *listen
B:	But in this particular lake, we went out with some friends, once
B:	and we just, every time you tossed the line in, you pull up a five, six, seven inch minimum bass
B:	and usually you pull up, you know, thirteen to fourteen inch bass.
A:	Wow.
B:	Yeah,
B:	it's a real, it's a real enjoyable experience to go fishing there because we just, we pull up, you know, bass after bass
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	probably during, during perch season the perch will run in very large schools,
B:	so what they'll do is
B:	you'll, you'll be sort of boating around,
B:	these people own a little row boat,
B:	and they'll be boating around
B:	and they'll hit a, they'll hit a school of perches in the middle
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and when they do, you can just drop the lines in and just pull them in one at,
B:	they, they just drop it in.
B:	They can't pull it in fast enough.
A:	What do you, what do you catch perch on?
B:	Uh, I, they actually, they,
B:	according to them, you can catch, when the perch are running, you can catch them on just about anything.
A:	Huh.
B:	They tend to use, I guess worms or some kind of lures sometimes,
B:	but, you know, I've,
B:	she told me that they will sometimes use corn or anything, you know.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	They'll,
B:	corn or salami or bread or anything,
B:	they'll, they'll, they'll hit because they're just sort of surrounded, these large schools.
A:	Yeah,
A:	it's,
A:	sometimes I use corn,
A:	but, uh, uh, some fish steal it off the hook sometimes.
B:	Yeah,
B:	it's a big problem.
A:	Yeah,
A:	uh, the other day I was fishing with bread, uh,
A:	there's a college across the street
B:	Yeah.
A:	and they,
A:	it's, it's full of carp and, uh, I caught a carp on a, about, what size is that, uh, I think it was a number two treble hook,
B:	Um.
A:	and it's huge,
A:	its, its mouth was full of hooks.
B:	Wow.
A:	So he was in a bad way.
A:	But, uh, it's,
A:	he was fast.
A:	He,
B:	A big one?
A:	Yeah.
A:	Well, it's, uh, it was sixteen inches long.
B:	Wow, that's, that's, that's a nice size carp.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I think it was about a pound and a half, you know,
A:	but all they're good for is the fight.
A:	Boy they they really don't want to come out of the water
A:	they, they zip through the water, you know,
A:	you're, how your line goes, you know
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and I thought, you know, that, uh, I wasn't going to be able to get it in, because, uh, the one I hooked just about ten minutes before, when I tried to raise it out of the water, it fell off,
A:	so it wasn't hooked very well.
A:	But, you know, I got it that far,
A:	I figured that, uh,
B:	That, that, that counts.
A:	Yeah,
A:	that's what I said.
A:	That's what I told the guy.
A:	The guy was standing there
A:	and he laughed when it fell off
A:	and I said, that's a quick release, right there.
B:	Do you, do you, do you actually like the taste of
B:	do you, like, eat the fish that you catch
B:	or are you more of a sport fisherman?
A:	Uh, catfish, yeah.
A:	But, uh, I haven't eaten anything else, you know.
A:	Uh, there's some, uh,
A:	my dad has a farm
A:	and there's,
A:	he has two ponds up there
A:	and my uncle has a, a pond upstream
A:	But the catfish, there's, you know, there's hundreds of them from like two to six pounds and, that,
A:	yeah.
B:	Right,
B:	so you can just, oh,
B:	because I don't actually like fish.
B:	It's sort of,
B:	so when I fish, it's more for sport than anything else.
A:	Yeah,
A:	and if, you know,
A:	when you, when you have to look in their eyes and, you know, hit them in the head or whatever, that's what you do with a catfish you know, because you have to sever their spinal cord.
B:	Right.
B:	And, and, and, and, and be careful you don't get stung.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I know it.
B:	Have you ever tried, uh, deep sea fishing?
A:	Uh, not yet.
A:	My brother went off the coast of Maine, uh,
A:	when the,
A:	I don't know,
A:	what they,
A:	mackerel
B:	Yeah.
A:	that school up there? *listen--is there overlap?
A:	It's
A:	he, he said that it was just like that.
A:	They were throwing like, uh, uh, hell benders or, uh, uh, some other kind of treble hook lure
A:	and, and, uh, each time they bring them in they'd have at least one,
A:	sometimes they've had two on, you know, one on every hook.
B:	Yeah,
B:	we, I was out in Florida with a friend a while ago
B:	and we would go and just, uh, drop two, you know, a, a two or three rig, two or three hooked rig as well down off a boat.
B:	We just dropped it down there
B:	and, the captain had, you know, some kind of sonar in the boat
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	so he'd maneuver us into a school of fish
B:	and you just drop it in and and it just,
B:	you, you get one or two at a shot, you know
B:	and, It's a good deal, too.
A:	Yeah.
B:	It was, it was a, like twenty dollars for six hours of fishing on some big charter boat.
A:	Wow.
B:	You know, and, and, and they'll clean your fish on a tip basis for you if you want.
A:	Yeah,
A:	down here it's like two hundred dollars a day.
B:	Well, this is,
B:	yeah,
B:	this, this, this was for a, you know, large,
B:	there were maybe thirty of us on the boat.
A:	A group party.
B:	We, we weren't all related, just, you know, thirty people off the shop in the boat there.
A:	Yeah.
B:	If you want to go on a boat alone, it's like two hundred dollars a day.
A:	Yeah.
B:	But this is great, because it was, I think it was nineteen dollars for five hours and twenty dollars for six hours or something.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	You know,
B:	so you'd get to go out there for, for, for six hours and get a nice suntan and bring along some lunch and, and fish all day.
B:	It's really nice
B:	It's real enjoyable.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Well, I, I don't know if it's been five minutes yet or not.
B:	I think we're probably close, though.
A:	Yeah.
A:	It's nice talking to you.
B:	Nice talking to you, too.
B:	Good luck with fishing this season.
A:	Good luck.
B:	Bye-bye.
A:	Bye-bye.
A:	like in a room filled with What do you think about the benefits in jobs?
B:	Um, I'm, I'm relatively satisfied with the benefits I have.
B:	I think that, um, our health insurance is terribly expensive.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I'd rather that we got a bit more coverage for a lot less money.
B:	But, um, you know, that's, that's my major complaints, I guess.
B:	What about you?
A:	Yeah,
A:	and a lot of times they turn down your claims
A:	so that leaves you paying for all of it.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Or, or maybe that it's not understood what should be covered and what isn't.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Right
A:	the  health insurance I have is Met Life,
B:	Yeah,
A:	and, if,
A:	it's the type that if you go to a certain doctor then, uh, you just pay ten dollars
A:	and then, uh, the insurance pays the rest of the bill.
A:	Or if you go outside you get, uh, seventy thirty.
B:	Now we,
B:	I have just the regular insurance so that any doctor is covered
B:	but what I found recently is what they've been doing is they, they poll somehow the area,
B:	and then they have what they consider a justifiable price for the area where your doctor is located based on zip code.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And so recently, when, when we had a claim, um, they didn't pay the eighty-five percent they paid much lower
B:	and when I called they said, Oh well, that's because your doctor is charging much more than the norm for the area.
B:	And I was really surprised because either there aren't that many of that type of doctor within that zip code, so that, you know, two doctors could balance each other out, or their, you know, their statistics aren't very accurate. *listen
A:	Right.
A:	And, and they're probably doing it to their benefit, anyway.
A:	So,
B:	Yeah,
B:	I would assume that you know, whatever doctors are willing to do the paperwork and send it in.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But it's, it's difficult.
B:	What about other, other benefits?
B:	Are there others that you're dissatisfied with?
A:	Well, I work for Sears,
A:	and, and, um, that's about the, the only real benefit you have, is health insurance.
B:	Well, you have vacation, I
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah,
A:	but everybody gets vacation.
A:	I mean, like, uh, T I and some other places, you know, they have recreational facilities,
A:	and they have a driving range and weight room
A:	and, you know, I think they even have a swimming pool
B:	Huh.
A:	and I don't know if they have any tennis courts or anything like that.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I'm not familiar with that sort of thing,
B:	but you know, to me vacation is, is an issue,
B:	and I mean, different places have different amounts of vacation, I would assume.
A:	Right.
B:	And, um, you know, the leniency with which they let you take leave without pay, perhaps or, um, I don't know, I suppose, um, sick days.
B:	Some places count the number of hours
B:	and some places just sort of believe you.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Um, ours is based on number of days,
B:	and, you know, people try to build them up in case they really do get seriously ill.
A:	Right.
B:	Right.
B:	But, um, otherwise, I'm not aware of any problems with the benefits around here
B:	So maybe that covers the topic then.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Well, I don't know, the the working conditions, you know, if you could include that in benefits.
A:	Some places aren't very safe to work.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, and some places don't compensate you for the hazards that you, that you have to work under.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Or maybe a uh, not really a benefit, either, but would be the allowing you to use the telephone for personal calls.
A:	Right,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	Um, but, you know I suppose some places are, are more stringent about that than others.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I think so.
B:	And, and, maybe arriving late or something like that, you know,
B:	how, how they enforce the rules.
A:	Uh-huh
B:	But other than that I don't have much feeling for, for the benefits,
B:	since, like I said, um, I don't have a big problem with, with them.
A:	Um, workmen's comp is a big thing now in, in Texas because, um, um, how much it costs the employers
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and a, a lot of them are going to their own insurance now.
A:	And it reduces some of the length of the benefits, and, uh, and I don't know besides that.
A:	But I, I noticed right off that was a year less than what the state was allowing.
B:	Oh I, I didn't know that somebody could avoid workmen's compensation.
A:	Well, well, they still have to pay it
A:	but they buy their own instead of going through the state.
B:	Oh, I see.
A:	So apparently it costs less that way.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	uh-huh.
B:	I suppose that whenever companies can avoid, um, benefits, it's to the, to, to the benefit of the company
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and at least, you know, financially in the short run,
B:	but I would think they would get a much greater turnover
B:	and that people would be dissatisfied
A:	Yeah.
A:	That's what I, what I think
A:	they should be able, they should be able to judge their benefits on how happy their employees are
A:	and how much profit they're making
A:	instead of trying to cut everything down *listen
A:	and then have everybody be unhappy and, and have a constant turnover of people.
B:	I mean, sure, the payroll is lower that way,
B:	but I would assume that the productivity is way down, also.
A:	Yeah,
A:	the productivity and the training costs,
A:	if they have to train the same employee, a new employee every six months, then I don't see how they can save money.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	uh-huh.
A:	You know, and once they once they get somebody good, they ought to hang onto them.
B:	That's right.
B:	No,
B:	I agree.
A:	Okay,
A:	it was nice talking to you.
B:	Well thank you for calling.
B:	Bye-bye.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Bye-bye
B:	Bye-bye.
A:	All right.
B:	Well, she lives in Utah,
B:	so.
A:	Oh, uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
A:	That's the way we always were.
A:	We always lived away from our family and relatives while the kids were growing up.
B:	Yeah.
A:	So, well, I guess we're going to talk about children today.
B:	Okay,
B:	let's do
A:	So, you ready?
A:	My children are all gone already.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	They're, they're all out on their own.
A:	So, uh, do you want to start first do you work?
B:	Okay.
B:	No,
B:	I don't,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I stay home most of the time
B:	but I know that it's very difficult to, to find good help sometimes when and especially when your, when you want your children to be taken care of.
A:	Right.
B:	Um, you know, there's a,
B:	my neighbor she tends children though
B:	and, and, um, there's a big controversy whether they should have to, um, have a, a a law to have them certified or, or not.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, um, you know, there's pros and cons on both side of that
A:	Right.
B:	because if they were, then you kind of know that they had to go through some kind of testing, or some kind of something to be on , get an okay seal.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah,
A:	but yet most of the problems we hear,
A:	of course, maybe that's what we hear about is from organized and approved day care centers.
B:	That's right.
B:	That's right.
A:	But maybe we don't hear about the other ones though that could be.
B:	Yeah.
A:	You know, the individual incidence or something.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh, now, usually when I have someone tend, um,
B:	my oldest tends for me now if I go somewhere
B:	but,
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	how old, is your oldest?
B:	before,
B:	He's almost a teenager
A:	Oh, well, he's plenty big enough then
B:	Yeah,
B:	he's, he's very good.
B:	Um, but, um, before that I would, I would use, uh, kids from our church,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and they did a good job, for me.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	Um, but I've never had to leave them like in a day care center, or anything,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and I've been very lucky just be able to stay home.
A:	That's the way with me.
A:	I, I worked four years one time,
A:	but my last two children were, uh, both entering high school age.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, they were, of course, gone while I was working
A:	so it wasn't a problem I saw,
A:	and I stayed home the rest of the time.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I, so I didn't have that problem either.
A:	Now I have, I,
A:	my oldest daughter she has two children
A:	and they've been in day care, uh,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	she works full time.
B:	Yeah,
B:	that's hard.
A:	It, it's difficult
A:	but yet she's the type of person that, I don't know, if she'd be happy staying at home.
B:	Well, some people aren't.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah.
A:	She, she surprised me though.
A:	She's done a lot of things that I never thought she would do, you know, with, with the family because she was the one that said she was never getting married and never going to have any children.
B:	Oh, is that, is that right?
A:	So, she is, she spends a lot of quality time I think when she is with, with the children.
B:	I think that's really important.
A:	And, uh, they've used the day care most of the time.
A:	They tried one once.
A:	They had a lady come in.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, she, she also had a small child she brought with her.
A:	And it did not work out. Uh, at all
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	It, she thought it was going to.
A:	She was real excited because it was so much easier than taking the children out, in the morning,
B:	Yeah,
B:	uh-huh.
A:	but, uh, the lady called
A:	and her baby wasn't very old at the time and said she was having trouble.
A:	And this baby is the, is the most pleasant, uh, real pleasant baby easy to satisfy usually.
A:	And, and she was having problems with her,
A:	and so she called and said things were okay, settled down and was all right.
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah.
A:	Well, my daughter decided to call them and check
A:	and things weren't okay
B:	Oh.
A:	Her, her one son was watching the soapies
A:	which she doesn't allow them to watch the soapies.
B:	Oh, uh-huh.
A:	And the baby was in his crib with the door shut just screaming his heart out,
B:	Oh, dear.
A:	and the baby-sitter was in the kitchen with her baby.
B:	Oh.
A:	And so that ended that, episode,
B:	Yeah.
A:	and she was most upset, uh, over finding this.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I bet.
A:	So, uh, she, they kind of had decided that the day care was better.
A:	There's, uh, more people involved,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	more than one adult they,
A:	and the age groups are separated Uh-huh.
B:	Well, nannies have been an option, uh,
B:	but I know that at day care they have more of a, a routine like maybe in, uh, preschool would have where they have lessons and, so forth, and so on.
A:	Yes,
A:	story time, uh,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and the, this one has been particularly nice.
A:	It, uh, it kept track of what they did,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and they would tell the parents what they did that day.
A:	You know, if they said anything or did anything.
A:	So it kind of kept them,
B:	Gave you an idea of what your child, was progressing in or doing.
A:	Yeah.
A:	I I always thought that if you were checking into a day care, that you would be good to get references,  uh, on people that had been in that day care but was no longer there.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Because they wouldn't have nothing to worry about saying, you know,
A:	if there was a problem they, they would I think be more ready to tell you what it was.
B:	Oh, I think so, because if they were still there, you know they might not,
A:	They may not say anything.
B:	Right,
B:	right.
A:	And, uh, other than how else, how do you judge other than from what others have, uh, what you see, uh, the cleanliness and that type of thing.
B:	You can't really.
B:	You can't really unless your child would be old enough to say something,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and usually they aren't at that age. Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	But it would be real difficult to pick you, you know, to find one and decide.
B:	Well, I know I, uh, about three years ago I, I tended some children. And, uh, you know, I, I wondered if I would have to be certified
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	or whether they'd just bring them
B:	and and we got to where, well, we were just friends
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and so, they said, no, don't do that, we'll just bring them.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	And then if there was a problem
B:	and then we'd sit down, and talk about it
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but it never happened, to be a problem,
A:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
B:	and, and so things worked out okay,
B:	and their kids played with my kids
B:	and it worked out well.
A:	it worked out good.
A:	I'm going to, I've decided I'm going to baby-sit my two granddaughters.
B:	Oh.
A:	Since they'll be going back at the end of the month.
A:	And so, I'm going to give it a try.
B:	That's great.
A:	I, I, I sell Avon and Stanley products,
B:	Oh, uh-huh.
A:	and I've got that worked out.
A:	My husband, he's retired
A:	so he's going to deliver my products
A:	so I'll do my orders and that by phone.
B:	Well, that will be great.
A:	So, um, I'll be able to keep that up a little bit.
B:	Yeah.
A:	But I I think I'll enjoy doing ,
B:	Yeah.
B:	I bet you'll have some great experiences with them.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I, I think I'll enjoy.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I, I guess I kind of miss having a baby around A kid around or something
B:	Sure,
B:	why not. That's right.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Right.
A:	That's right
A:	Well, they do say you enjoy them more,
A:	a some, somebody said if they knew grandchildren where so much fun, they would have had them first
B:	Well, uh, my husband's mother lives right over here,
B:	and she takes care of them sometimes, for me,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, and just is a lovely lady,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and I've always appreciated when she's sat with them.
A:	Yeah.
A:	My daughter, always said she would not let me baby-sit because you do hear grandparents complaining you know because they're stuck with their grandchildren so much.
B:	And,
B:	Oh
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	But they're, the ones that complain a lot are the first
A:	I know they have a waiting list and a quota on immigration now.
B:	I've lost track.
B:	I don't really know.
B:	I, I do have some opinions,
B:	but go ahead.
A:	Yeah,
A:	um, well I know that they're, they're real cautious about letting Middle Eastern people into the country now because of all the terrorism.
A:	What,   What?  What all do you know about it?
B:	Uh,   okay ,
B:	I hadn't thought about that, uh.
B:	Uh, well I just have an opinion,
B:	now I didn't think, I thought the terrorism thing was overstated, I mean,
B:	there was nothing over here.
B:	In fact even,
B:	this is not our subject, I guess,
B:	but, uh, maybe it is or isn't, I suppose.
A:	Yeah.
B:	My wife when she talked about the Middle East
B:	and everyone's afraid, you know, of how the war was going to go and everything,
B:	I said, I told her, no,
B:	it's just not going to happen.
B:	There's not going to be any terrorism over him,
B:	and there wasn't, you know.
B:	They just didn't have an organization,
B:	but, uh, I, I, I'm concerned that we're letting too many, that we don't have enough controls.
B:	I think that, uh, the Asian gangsters that we've let in here
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, uh, and the last, you know,
B:	and I think that  there's got to be some sort of controls over that.
A:	That's right.
B:	I mean this Asia mafia thing is getting out of hand.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I don't, I don't, I didn't know what, I don't even know what our controls are.
B:	I don't even know what, uh, if we have any guidelines at all, uh, on immigration.
B:	Um, I always thought that we did,
B:	but I don't, I don't, I don't know what they are right now.
A:	There, I don't think there's much of, much of one, because I'm sure all the people from Cuba have been released from that camp that they were in.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
A:	and I think that was just an attempt that, that Fidel Castro to undermine, you know the United States to some extent.
B:	Yeah.
A:	So he just released and got rid of all his criminals and sent them to us.
A:	And it's almost the same thing in, in, uh, from Asia, because  a lot, a lot of them was put out of business in Vietnam after the war,
B:	Because we,
A:	and,
B:	I, I do have some sympathy with, uh, you know,
B:	of course we have this big Mexican problem,
B:	not a problem,
B:	but I think that we need to do something with, uh, the immigration of back and forth across Mexico, uh
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I, I'm sympathetic,
B:	I don't know what the answer is, I guess.
B:	I'm sympathetic certainly with that, that, that they want to come over here
B:	and they, I guess hundreds of thousands come over every year to work.
B:	And if, if they have jobs, you know, I hear the story that they're taking away American jobs.
B:	But I don't know, uh,
B:	I don't know how many American jobs they are really taking away.
A:	Right.
B:	So I, I'm sympathetic,
B:	but I don't have an answer.
B:	I don't uh, I think that we should have good relations with, with Mexico,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but that's not really exactly immigration.
B:	It is
B:	and it isn't.
B:	I don't know to what degree we owe the people who come across before they're citizens,
B:	owe the children education and all that, uh,
B:	although, the idea of education is an answer to a lot of problems in the world.
B:	So I guess it's what they,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	their, the Mexican kids get a good education along the way,
B:	and maybe that's a benefit to everybody, you know.
A:	Yeah,
A:	and a lot of the Mexican people just cross the border during the daytime to come over here and work
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and they have green cards.
A:	And, uh, then, like you said, a lot of,
A:	I run into people every day that can't speak English.
B:	Oh, yeah.
A:	And, uh, and, and most of them, you know, are working in janitorial positions
A:	so,  So, I, I don't know,
B:	Yeah.
B:	And that,
A:	like you said, I don't know how much, how much they're taking from the work force, you know.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I never thought that they were much.
B:	I do cringe when I hear some of the problems we've had.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Um, uh, of course you mentioned the language.
B:	I feel so bad that we, here in Texas, or certainly the southern part of the United States, uh, California, Texas, and all that, why our kids don't speak fluid Spanish, uh, by junior high, you know as well as us, you know
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	so that we could, wouldn't have the language barrier certainly.
B:	That, that, that is a shame that we have this tremendous border of Mexico,
B:	and then, in Europe, you know, they speak their French and all
B:	and they try, they go out of their way to try to speak their neighbor's language so they can understand.
B:	We, we we don't really even make an effort to speak Spanish,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and I feel bad about that
B:	Go ahead.
A:	Well, that's,
A:	I
A:	yeah
A:	I took Spanish in school,
A:	and that's, you know, one reason that I did it  is because, because whenever you travel anywhere near the border, you know, there more and more people speak Spanish.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I guess it's never too late.
B:	I, I do have some Spanish books,
B:	and I've always, uh,
B:	every year I say I'm going to try to speak some newcomers language, you know.
B:	I don't know if it's costing us any money
B:	or how much money they're putting into it, uh,
B:	that's always a factor,
B:	I mean how much, my wife says, How much the federal government is putting into it immigration.
A:	Well yeah,
A:	well, it's basically on the, well,
A:	I think it's mostly concentrated toward the borders,
A:	and, uh, it's more, um,
A:	the immigration is tied in with, uh, drug trafficking.
A:	So they have to watch out who comes in,
A:	and, and they're always finding drugs on, you know, on the most, um, calls out in innocent looking kind of
B:	Yeah.
A:	I forgot what they found,
A:	but a dog found it the other day, you know on the border.
B:	Oh, yeah.
B:	Oh yeah,
B:	I, I, I think that certainly is a problem.
B:	I guess our immigration history, that's a great subject.
B:	They, uh, didn't say to talk about that,
B:	but that is, I mean,
B:	on Ellis Island, they,
B:	you know they're redoing that and going to make it a museum, a national museum.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	That certainly was interesting,
B:	since all of us had, uh, ancestors that came over that way.
B:	Or not all,
B:	but I guess, I guess if you go back far enough you came over on a boat originally, you know.
B:	But, uh, a lot of us have parents, grandparents,
B:	my grandparents came over in about eighteen ninety or something like that.
B:	And I'm sure they came over, you know, through Ellis Island, you know.
A:	That's right.
A:	Well. *slash error Yeah,
B:	So we all immigrants, one way or another, well
B:	we certainly are, coming from Europe.
A:	and one of the, one of the things that really gets to me, uh, about the Mexicans is that, um, once they have children over here, their children are American citizens then.
B:	Oh, yeah,
B:	those were laws are unusual.
A:	Yeah,
A:	and then they'll ship the parents back
A:	and that leaves the children without any parents.
A:	So, And they, you know, and, and they just follow the rule no matter, you know.
B:	Yeah,
A:	So that doesn't seem fair to the children.
B:	sometimes common sense should take over rather than,
B:	yeah,
B:	that's a law doesn't sound like it makes any sense at all that you would do it that way.
A:	Right.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	You would think they could at least get a, a, a visa or something until they, uh, get citizenship.
B:	I'm sure they want to.
A:	Yeah,
A:	and then they granted them amnesty if they could prove, when was that, it was in the eighties some time if they could prove they'd been here five years.
B:	Oh, yeah.
B:	I heard something about that, yeah.
A:	And, uh, a lot of them had been, you know.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Some of them, some of them moved back and forth,
A:	but  uh, most of them don't ever want to go back to Mexico,
B:	Yeah.
A:	especially  the way it was then.
B:	Oh no.
B:	Oh, no,
B:	I, I could see, you could see why.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I don't know how much immigration we have from Europe and everything.
B:	What the controls are.
A:	I think most, you know, like especially the celebrities and everything, they just have a, uh, well, they have to get a green card if they going to do any kind of work, you know, in movies and, and such.
B:	Yeah.
A:	But most of them have temporary visas.
B:	Yeah.
B:	I guess you can get work visas pretty easily, uh.
A:	As long, it's like well,
A:	it's a kind of a bad, a bad, bad example,
A:	but when Rafael Septien took the job with the Cowboys they had to offer his job to any other applicant that could do it.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Oh, really?
A:	Yeah.
A:	So that, you know,
A:	and that's the thing with the jobs.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And of course no one beat him out.
B:	Yeah.
A:	So, you know. He just ruined his own career,
A:	so.
B:	Oh, well yeah.
A:	Yeah
B:	Yeah,
B:	well it's still interesting after all this time that we're probably one of the, one of the few countries that people are still desperately trying to immigrate to.
B:	Uh, although I guess Europe, now that the Communism is falling apart, that maybe there'll be, won't be that much of a rush to get out of all the Communist countries, uh,
B:	I guess Poland now, now is noncommunist
B:	so maybe not,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	maybe immigration from Europe to here will you know slowly, uh, change,
B:	maybe it'll be, even out like trade, you know.
B:	So many people will immigrate here in the twentieth, at the year two thousand,
B:	so many of the people will go back overseas.
B:	You know, maybe it will average out,
B:	I don't know.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I think so.
B:	It doesn't, has, doesn't seem so far.
A:	Because there are other I, uh, job opportunities, in Europe that there aren't here you know, even, um,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	like orchestra players can find a job sometimes line in Europe when they can't find one here.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And I'm a trumpet player.
B:	Are you a teacher?
A:	Uh, no,
A:	I, uh, I don't any more.
A:	I just went to school
A:	and I was a music major for a while.
B:	Oh, really,
B:	yeah.
A:	But I had a trumpet teacher that played in the Mexico City Symphony.
A:	So,  so he had to have a work visa there.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Oh.
A:	And of course they had a lot of musicians from, from other countries  and, uh, in the Mexico City Symphony.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	But I think, um, like three out of the four other people in the trumpet section are from Mexico now.
B:	Oh, really.
A:	But I think the conductor, I don't know, or one of the conductors is, is from another country.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	It's like any other symphony.
B:	Yeah
A:	You know, and then, and Eduardo Mana's from Mexico
A:	so he had to,
A:	Well, I, um, I haven't really lived in a lot of big cities.
A:	I mean, I'm living in Dallas now.
A:	Plano is outside of Dallas,
A:	but, um, so I don't really have a lot of experience with air pollution.
B:	Huh-uh.
A:	But, I know when I lived down in Houston, on the outskirts of Houston, there were some towns like Pasadena that had oil refineries,
B:	Huh-uh.
A:	And, um, if you would drive by there, like on your way to the beach or something, there would just be dumping this huge amounts of smoke, into the air
B:	Huh-uh.
B:	Huh-uh.
A:	and it always smelled really bad.
A:	We know that, that was really, really, really bad for the atmosphere.
A:	What have you got up there?
B:	Well, I, I live out in the country,
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	so that part is good.
B:	Uh, we're maybe one hundred miles from Pittsburgh,
B:	which has a lot of pollution from their plants,
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	and right now in our area were fighting against a toxic waste incinerator. *sp: we're
A:	Oh, no.
B:	And, uh, it won't be too for from where we live. *sp: far
B:	And everybody really has been, you know, fighting against it, because we, we do not want it.
B:	Well, we don't want one any place
A:	Sure.
B:	we would like the, uh, industry to do more to take care of the waste products before they turn to incineration, because we feel that, uh, the small percentage that they're going to be putting into the air is too much. Huh-uh.
A:	Yeah.
A:	It's just, I mean, it's just so bad that there is just so much going into the air
A:	and, and the little bit you say that there putting in here and there, and everywhere, it all adds up. *there they're
B:	Huh-uh.
A:	Plus all the problems in the Middle East.
A:	With all that smoke and,
B:	Oh, that has to be terrible over there.
A:	Yeah.
A:	So it's just, um, why are we doing this to ourselves
B:	Huh-uh.
A:	I just don't know,
A:	but, um, I, you know, what really amazes me about, like that Pasadena area and the oil refineries, is that there would be houses and people living just really close to it.
B:	Huh-uh.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I mean, between the freeway and the oil refinery, you would see a neighborhood.
B:	Huh-uh.
A:	and you just thought, well, it's obvious that there's a lot going up in the air there,
A:	and what comes up, must come down
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Breathing it, we're breathing it all the time.
A:	Yes.
A:	And, and how, if they have all of those, um,
A:	toxicity, I mean, it, there's signs around saying how dangerous it is
A:	and here you are living ...
B:	Huh-uh
A:	That just doesn't make too much sense.
B:	No.
B:	And I figure we're paying to take care of this toxic waste, no matter who does it. and they have shown, some of the industries have been real good at, uh, uh, doing their part in, uh, reducing the amount that they have, *sd
A:	Huh-uh.
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	Uh, they've reused some of it, uh,
B:	it can be recycled, a lot of their things,
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	and that they've shown, that it, uh, to begin with, apparently it does cost more,
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	but, once they get started, it's really, it saves them money in the end,
B:	and it cuts down on the end product that has to be dealt with some other way.
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	And if they would all,
B:	that's what, that's what we want done.
B:	Is, we want industry to take, you know, more responsibility in taking care of it.
A:	Well, um, individual companies and things are so selfish,
B:	Huh-uh.
A:	And their desires to save a few dollars and, and that
A:	they don't care about the environmental impact, that they make.
B:	Huh-uh.
B:	they're greedy.
B:	It's money, is what is.
B:	It's, it's the money
A:	Yes.
B:	They're making fantastic amounts on these things
B:	and, uh, even the incinerator, the money and the income that they're going to make off this, is, you know, just astronomical.
A:	Huh-uh.
A:	Well, have you ever visited, um, like Los Angeles or any place that's ever, it's kind of known, that it has, uh, pollution in it's air?
B:	We've never been,
B:	we went as far as, as, uh, like Las Vegas, and Yellow Stone Park,
A:	Huh-uh.
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	We did go, we should have gone the whole way over,
B:	but we didn't.
B:	But, I understand that,
B:	we have an aunt that lives out there
B:	and, When she was visiting here, she would look up at the stars
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	and she said how wonderful it was to be able to look into the sky and see some of the things that she saw.
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	She said they couldn't see those things out there, because of the smog and everything.
A:	Huh-uh.
A:	That's so awful.
A:	Well, what about in New York.
A:	I guess you've gone that way, maybe.
B:	No.
B:	Never been in New York
B:	I don't want to go there
A:	Pretty funny.
B:	Have you been there?
A:	Well, I've been to New York.
A:	I have relatives that direction.
B:	Oh.
A:	We have,
A:	it's, um,
A:	is it close to Phoenixville, Pennsylvania?
B:	Um, no,
B:	I never heard of that one.
A:	Because I have family there
A:	and,
B:	We're near Pittsburgh, Clarion University.
A:	Oh, huh-uh.
A:	It's pretty neat.
B:	It's, it's kind of northwest part of Pennsylvania.
A:	That's beautiful country up that way.
A:	I know,
A:	it's, um, very lush and pretty, Up in the, back in the east.
A:	It's really,
B:	Are you a young person?
A:	Well, I'm thirty-one.
B:	Thirty-one.
B:	You're, you're young
A:	Seems kind of old to me.
B:	No,
B:	you're young.
B:	You have a lot of life yet,
B:	and, and these,
B:	we have some people who say, well, this isn't going to affect me, this air pollution,
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	uh, older people,
B:	or they think they're far enough away from something, that it's,
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	and they don't realize these things are going to affect everybody.
B:	And if you're older it's not going to affect you that way.
B:	You have grandchildren,
B:	you have children, uh,
A:	Yes.
B:	Nieces, nephews, whatever, friends.
B:	Uh, everybody is going to be affected by it.
A:	That's really true.
A:	And we all, you know, need to be willing to help pay a little bit. Like,
A:	I've heard some people, uh, grumble about their, uh, cars passing their emission tests, and things,
B:	Huh-uh.
A:	and how they've had to, how it's more expensive and things.
B:	Huh-uh.
A:	And I thought, well, it's so much better.
B:	They say it has really made a difference, though.
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	Now, see, we don't have that here, yet.
A:	Oh, you don't.
B:	No,
B:	we don't have that testing in that down here, yet.
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	But they,
B:	I have read that, that, that it has really helped where the problem is greater, where the population is greater,
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	and that it has made a difference.
A:	Well, I really think it must.
A:	I think every,
A:	I mean, well, think about how many automobiles there are.
B:	Huh-uh.
B:	Huh-uh.
A:	And each is putting out,
A:	like we have a car,
A:	an older, one of our cars is an older car,
B:	Huh-uh.
A:	and every time you start it, from the tail pipe, it makes a black spot, on the cement,
B:	Huh-uh.
B:	Huh-uh.
A:	And you know that, that is a sign.
B:	Something is coming out,
B:	yeah.
A:	Yeah.
A:	And that's, all cars are doing that.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And it's really polluting the air.
B:	Yeah.
B:	If you have to put a price on it. Which is more valuable, life or paying a little more.
A:	Huh-uh.
A:	And it's also, it's causing of lot of the real terrible suffering like cancer,  and things,
B:	Huh-uh.
B:	Huh-uh.
A:	We sure wouldn't want, so much more people suffering from that.
B:	Huh-uh.
B:	Yeah.
B:	And like I said, I think you have to pay for it no matter what you do you with it, because it's industry.
B:	We're paying industry to make the products
B:	and, we're helping pay for there making these end products that are, toxic waste.
A:	Huh-uh.
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	Then, we have to pay for them to pay somebody to carry it away someplace,
B:	then they put it in the dump some place
B:	and they find out, well, this dump doesn't work
B:	so we have to clean this up and move it someplace else.
B:	We end up paying for it again.
B:	Now we're going to end up paying for it again by having it burned in these large incinerators.
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	And we're paying to have our air polluted and our water streams polluted.
A:	Pretty sad.
B:	Or the,
B:	where they want to put, the one area they want to put the incinerator is right in the middle of the Clarion, the two water sheds that feed Clarion river.
A:	Oh, no.
B:	And, you know, it just boggles our mind that they can consider even putting it there, because, if that water gets contaminated, it will go on down to Pittsburgh.
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	It will, you know,
B:	it affects so many people.
A:	Huh-uh.
B:	And it's just hard to think that they could allow them to do things like this.
A:	No.
A:	No.
A:	It's scary
B:	Huh-uh.
A:	It's scary.
B:	It really is.
A:	Huh-uh.
A:	It's really awful.
A:	Well, I've really enjoyed the conversation.
A:	It's helped me to think more about some issues that I need to be thinking more about
B:	It is really a concern. Huh-uh.
A:	Huh-uh.
A:	And it's, instead of waiting until it directly affects me, like you say, it's important to be involved ahead of time.
A:	Well, you have a good day.
B:	Well, you, too.
A:	Thank you.
B:	Huh-uh.
A:	Bye-bye.
B:	Bye.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	I have got two.
B:	One is, uh, two
B:	and the other one's four
B:	and, uh, this is my first year of staying home.
B:	I've always had them in child care.
A:	Oh, well, then you are familiar with it?
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Okay,
A:	I, uh, I have grandchildren
A:	and I know, uh, one has gone to a, well, two of them have gone to preschool.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And I know what the experience my daughter has faced with that.
A:	Why don't you tell me what you have found.
B:	Well, uh, the,
B:	with our second sitter, the first one didn't quite work out, there were some things going on that I wasn't really happy with
B:	and so I felt that, that I need to move on with them
B:	and so I found another baby-sitter
B:	and she was wonderful
B:	except I thought that there were too many in the home
B:	and it just seemed like it was so hard to find, uh, really good child care.
B:	She was wonderful,
B:	it's just that I felt that there were too many in the home.
B:	It was in home child care.
A:	Okay, Okay,
A:	so it was in home child care.
A:	You took them to someone's home?
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Well, both times?
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	right.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, uh, and then I worked in, in the child care centers
B:	and I wasn't really happy with the particular one that I was working in
B:	so I just always had a fear about, you know, child care centers.
A:	Oh, uh-huh.
B:	And then I just decided that I was just missing a lot of their time whether they were so little
B:	and, and I couldn't get off of work as often as I wanted to when they were ill
B:	so I just decided it was probably best just to stay home for a while until they were a little more, uh, independent
B:	and, uh, I could go back to work.
A:	I know that in raising my children, uh, I was fortunate,
A:	I didn't have to work,
A:	we didn't necessarily have a lot of things
B:	Yeah
B:	That's how it's going now.
A:	But, uh, and, I know my daughter,
A:	because she has three
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I mean it's so expensive.
B:	Oh, yeah.
A:	You have to really make a lot of money.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And I'm glad that she gets to stay home so that she can then participate with what's going on in their life.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Uh, bosses don't always seem to understand getting off to go to Christmas programs in the middle of the day or something.
B:	Oh, no,
B:	yeah.
A:	You know, and I know that one of the day cares and it's a, a well-known chain, uh, she was not at all happy with.
A:	It was, there was too many children per person.
A:	They were just kind of left to play,
A:	there was no structure to,
A:	and the middle grandson went there as a, uh, like a preschool thing.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	She was wanting him actually to start getting a certain amount of, of learning and training and stuff.
A:	Not just there, you know,
A:	so he went like, uh, I think he went, well, five mornings a week, if I remember correctly.
B:	Wow.
A:	And, uh, you know, and it was supposed to be a base,
A:	you know, starting to learn the colors and, and learning to associate with children so that when he went to, you know, school and stuff,
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and, uh, she was most unhappy with it.
B:	Huh.
A:	There was no structure,
A:	there was nothing to it.
A:	You know, and, uh, she pulled him out of that one and put him in a, another one that was excellent.
A:	It was, it was like a little kindergarten.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, they had hot lunches
A:	and, and they had classes that, you know, one class they'd do art.
A:	They even familiarized the children with computers.
B:	Oh.
A:	Uh, it was just, it was really a very excellent one.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	And how old was he?
A:	He's now five and a half.
A:	He's in kindergarten.
B:	Oh.
A:	This was last year.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, so, you know, it helped him and, and the first one, uh, he went to a, uh, church preschool that was very good.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	The Methodist Church in Richardson.
B:	Oh.
A:	The big one
A:	and it was a excellent,
A:	they,
A:	very good.
B:	My little boy goes to the Methodist, uh, in Garland.
A:	Oh, does he?
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	I'm real happy with that one.
A:	Yeah,
A:	they, uh, the church ones, church ones seem to be very well run.
B:	Well, I've, I've heard that the Methodist ones are excellent.
A:	Oh, really?
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Even the even the Mother's Day Out programs, I heard, are real good.
A:	Oh. I had, uh, I just assumed that most churches, going by, you know experience there, that, you know, that they were good.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I I didn't know that, uh, you know,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I'm not that familiar.
A:	I just know that, you know, First United Methodist of Richardson was just a great program.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah,
B:	because this is First United Methodist in Garland that he goes to
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and I'm real happy with that.
A:	Yeah,
A:	it's a pretty good size church, too, isn't it?
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah.
A:	So, Well, are you enjoying staying home?
B:	Well, that's a,
B:	Yes,
B:	I am
B:	Uh, I taught for Richardson School District
A:	Oh, uh-huh.
B:	and, uh, I taught early childhood
B:	and I really enjoyed it,
B:	but it was just, it was taking a lot of my time
B:	and I noticed I was spending less and less time with them
B:	and it just seemed like they were sick more often
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and I just couldn't get the time off to,
B:	so,
A:	Well, isn't it very hard to teach young children and then come home and deal with young children. And have enthusiasm.
B:	Yeah,
B:	it is.
B:	It really is.
B:	Yeah,
B:	it really is.
B:	And I felt,
A:	Okay, uh,
A:	could you tell me what you think contributes most to, uh, air pollution?
B:	Well, it's hard to say.
B:	I mean, while it's certainly the case that things like automobiles and factories, uh, pollute a lot, uh, if you look at how much pollution is say kicked up by an active volcano, uh, it's certainly less than clear that anything man can do in this sort of scale of things has much effect at all.
B:	What do you think?
A:	Um, well, you talked about, uh, volcanos.
A:	I'm not sure how many active volcanos there are now, and, and what the amount of material that they do, uh, put into the atmosphere.
A:	I think probably the greatest cause is, uh, vehicles, especially around cities.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Um, uh, do you live right in the city itself?
B:	No,
B:	I'm more out in the suburbs,
B:	but I certainly work near a city.
A:	Okay,
A:	so Can you notice,
B:	How about you?
A:	well it's, it's,
A:	I live in a rural area.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	It's mainly farms and, uh, no heavy industry.
A:	Attleboro, itself,
A:	I live in Rhode Island.
B:	Oh, I see.
A:	And, it's in the north,
A:	I live up in the, uh, northeast corner
A:	and Attleboro sits in just over the line, where T I's plant is,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but there isn't a lot of heavy industry.
A:	There's the freeways
A:	and we get an occasional,
A:	it depends which way the wind's blowing from Boston, cause we're like forty miles south of Boston,
A:	so we'll pick up that.
A:	And, uh, I've noticed over the past say, maybe five or six years, uh,
A:	we live about twenty miles away from the state airport
A:	and I notice that the fly patterns now of the jets are getting bigger,
A:	they're swinging wider so that now they are coming over, over our homes.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, it seems like, uh, we're catching all that residue.
A:	I'm not sure if it's kerosene or what that's dropping.
A:	But, other than that, you know, we don't have the, unless we're catching it from the midwest, the emissions. You know from the power plants. Um.
B:	Yeah.
B:	You mean like from the coal.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah,
A:	we generate,
A:	one of our, our biggest electrical plants in Rhode Island uses coal to, uh, generate electricity.
B:	Um,
A:	Um, there doesn't seem to be much emission from them,
A:	but I'm not sure about the rest of the country.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I notice locally a major problem is Kodak.
B:	Um, it's interesting
B:	because in order to, uh, keep with the E P A standards which, which tend to be visible, uh, what's coming out of your smokestack, they do all their emissions at night.
B:	Uh, so people get up,
A:	Okay,
A:	well, is that right?
B:	Yeah,
B:	people get up in the morning in that neighborhood
B:	and they've got this black ash on their cars, which, you know, seems to be,
A:	Yeah,
A:	surprise, surprise.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I mean, I really think that if the E P A had anything on the ball they'd go in there with a few phosphorous grenades, light up the sky, photograph the emissions at that point, and, uh, you know,
A:	Yeah.
A:	There, there must be, uh, uh, some of the, some of the, uh, larger plants up, uh, up around one hundred twenty-eight.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Um, we've got reports that, uh,
A:	during the night seems like they'd blow off their, their stacks from, uh, the warehouses, for powerhouses,
B:	Right.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and, they do that at night too, because, employees been complaining that the cars have been pitted, and, you know, spots all over them.
B:	Right.
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah.
A:	So, you're right,
A:	they could do something about, about that, I guess.
B:	Yeah.
B:	That seems a little ridiculous.
A:	How are your, uh, your lakes,
A:	and, uh,
B:	Oh they've been getting cleaner.
A:	They have?
B:	Sure.
B:	But, um, yeah,
B:	I'm not sure how much the water pollution is, is directly related to the air pollution, other than acid rain,
B:	yeah,
A:	Acid rain,
A:	yeah,
A:	that's, that's what I was, uh,
B:	I mean the stuff I've read recently in Technology Review basically indicates that acid rain may be a little bit, uh, overstated. That a lot of the die off they've seen in forests may not really be due to acid rain at all.
B:	Um,
B:	I'm not an expert.
A:	Yeah,
A:	no.
A:	Didn't they just have an article, oh, on, uh,
A:	they were dumping lime.
B:	Up here?
A:	Up, upstate New York somewhere, over huge areas,
B:	I haven't read that.
B:	Oh yeah.
A:	and they thought that was more beneficial because, you know it, it, some of it does soak in
A:	and some of it runs off right away into the, in to the streams and rivers
A:	and some of the fish were supposedly making a comeback.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I can't remember where
A:	I, I read that recently somewhere,
A:	and I can't remember where.
B:	Yeah,
B:	that's
A:	But I, I thought it was up there.
A:	So, that's interesting because New Hampshire, and parts of Vermont, um, they showed pictures of, of extensive tree damage that they attributed to acid rain.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Um.
A:	Um, you kind of think it's something else then?
B:	Well, that's what the environmentalists were claiming in this article.
B:	So that,
A:	Oh, they didn't say, they didn't say what though,
A:	they just said they thought it was,
B:	They didn't say what,
B:	they just said they thought acid rain's contribution may be less than was previously suspected. Um, that it may be other natural things at work. Um,
A:	Uh, natural disease,
B:	Yeah,
B:	so it's, it's less than clear.
B:	Like I said, I don't remember the article that well.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah.
B:	But, um, I don't know,
B:	I mean, what do you think we can, uh, I guess as individuals or as a group, do about, uh, air pollution?
A:	Uh, we can demand, uh, more efficient automobiles for one thing.
A:	I still think that's, that's, uh, one of our major causes of pollutants.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh, how we go about that, it's uh, uh, it's a little bit difficult.
B:	I think it's up to individuals too, to ask automakers for, for less pollutant vehicles.
A:	Yeah,
A:	Yeah,
A:	you I think you need a, a vehicle something like, uh, Ralph Nader, Nader's Raiders, or, where, uh, or, uh, uh, A A R P, which has a lot of members. Uh, if you can get those types of groups.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Do you really think that new vehicles though is a big problem.
B:	I mean, I remember reading an article that said like, it's, uh, the older polluters,
B:	the, the twelve and fifteen year old cars, you know, contribute like ninety percent, of the automobile pollution
A:	Yeah,
B:	and the new cars it's hardly is, hardly anything.
A:	Yeah,
A:	they're better,
A:	but how about all the trucks and buses that are out there.
A:	Uh, when was the last time you saw a truck that didn't belch, smoke, or, uh,
B:	Yeah,
B:	but doesn't that just mean they're out of tune.
A:	Uh, I'm not really sure.
A:	You think that, that, that the, uh, the trucking industry is that, uh, incompetent, that they wouldn't, you know,
A:	fuel is, is one of their biggest costs.
B:	Right.
A:	So, you would,
B:	But diesel engines.
A:	Yeah,
A:	diesel engines.
B:	It, you know, it's, it,
B:	I mean, they do generate a lot of soot
B:	but that at least, that kind of particulate comes out of the air pretty quickly.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
A:	We could also, uh, push for legislation for, uh, rapid transit systems.
A:	This country seems to be a little behind on that.
B:	Yeah.
B:	On the other hand most people don't use rapid transit because it's so inconvenient.
A:	Um, yeah,
A:	but only because we got used to, uh, single person, single car, driving.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	A lot of people don't even like to carpool.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	But we could that.
A:	That'll help, pollution, air pollution,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	The, uh, United States and Canada are I guess, is, is, going into, uh, some types of agreements to limit, uh, what's being given out by power plants,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I guess Canada's quite concerned that we're sending a lot of our stuff up there,
B:	Yeah,
B:	sure.
A:	So that's helping.
B:	Well, what do you think about like a device, a meter right on a tail pipe
A:	Now that's an idea.
A:	don't say that too loud though because, uh, every city and town will have a meter on your tail pipe generating generating revenue,
B:	Well, it just means if you don't pollute, right, or you pollute very little you don't have to pay any tax
B:	or you just buy one of these things
B:	and it, it, uh,
B:	maybe you, you could probably devise them so it slowly closed off your tail pipe
B:	and, uh, the less you pollute the longer the devise lasts
B:	and you couldn't start your car anymore.
A:	That's a, that's an interesting concept.
A:	Is that your idea?
B:	Yeah,
B:	but, uh, you know, it's, uh,
B:	I guess the difficulty would be to, that somebody could obviously just take it right off the tail pipe again
B:	so you probably would have to build it right into the muffler or something.
A:	Well I was going to say,
A:	right.
A:	You could put it in, you could, you could, it could be installed like a catalytic converter.
B:	Right.
A:	I mean I guess you could take those off too
A:	but,
B:	You could take
B:	but mufflers would be a little more obvious if you took that off.
A:	Yeah,
A:	if you can take a muffler off and only replace,
A:	well not unless it was built into every muffler.
B:	Right.
A:	And that's .
B:	But if you was talking about something which was more or less universal that, uh, busses and any kind of vehicle, had to pay a pollution tax, uh, this would penalize the heavy polluters and not penalize the light polluters,
A:	That's a, that's quite a concept.
A:	You should, uh, pursue that I think, or patent it, you know.
B:	Yeah,
B:	patent it,
B:	that's a good idea.
A:	If you could come up with a device that's the thing.
B:	Right.
A:	But it shouldn't be too hard to do something like that.
A:	But that's a, that's a thought.
A:	No,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	you're right
A:	and that will solve, uh, a lot of problems.
A:	I don't know if you, uh, if you approached the automobile industry if they would be too keen on installing something like that.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh, but you know a proposal to, uh, uh, I guess the proper authorities,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	well you might, uh, generate some
B:	Yeah,
B:	the automobile regulatory agencies or something.
A:	yeah,
A:	you might generate some interest in it.
A:	But that's, that's a good idea.
A:	Other than that I'm not sure what, what individuals can do other than like I said get involved through a group or an organization.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	What are your music interests?
A:	Uh, just about any kind of music except acid rock
A:	I, I don't care, for acid rock,
B:	Me, too.
B:	Oh.
A:	but, uh, I grew up with country and western,
B:	Yeah,
B:	I did, too,
A:	but, uh,
B:	and then,
A:	just about any kind of music.
A:	I even like classical music.
B:	Yeah,
B:	uh, I'm pretty diversified, too.
B:	I, I don't, I don't like acid rock either.
B:	I, I grew up in a small town
B:	so, uh, the only, we only had one radio station
B:	so it was country music,
A:	Yeah.
B:	but then, uh, when I,
A:	Yeah,
A:	I grew up with Hank Snow, and Lefty Frizzell and Hank Williams and all of those old country and western songs.
B:	Oh, really.
B:	You're older than I am
A:	But, uh, I,
A:	did you happen to see last night the special on Channel Two with James Galway?
B:	We don't get Channel Two.
B:	My, uh, our cable doesn't,
A:	Oh.
B:	I wish we got that what,
B:	but,
A:	That is fabulous.
B:	Was it?
B:	Well, we don't get Channel Two.
A:	We,
A:	Yeah,
A:	when he played DANNY BOY it just almost brought, tears to your eyes, because he can make that flute sing.
B:	Oh, really?
A:	Yeah,
A:	and, uh, it was tremendous.
B:	Now, he, he is a, uh,
B:	actually, I did,
B:	I played flute for, almost ten years
A:	Yeah.
B:	and, and, uh, so, I, I, I appreciate his too, his, his
A:	Yeah.
B:	he, he, he's from Ireland isn't he?
A:	Yeah,
A:	uh-huh,
A:	and it was, uh, mostly all Irish tunes,
B:	Was
B:	yeah.
A:	they had a band with him that, uh, had a harpist and another flute and then a guy that played the bagpipes plus the, uh, tin whistle, and a couple of violins and, uh, drum,
B:	Yeah.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and they, they played all the Irish jigs and so forth,
A:	it was just fabulous.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I, he, he is really good.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I, I, I come from a musical background,
A:	Yeah.
B:	so, uh, uh, I've played flute, flute and piano,
B:	so, I, I, I have a big appreciation for music, up to a point.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
B:	I, I'm getting now to the age where I don't like the new stuff that's coming and much of the new stuff that's coming out,
A:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
B:	my husband says I'm getting old
A:	Yeah
A:	I love, uh, I, I especially like instrumentals.
B:	Do you?
A:	Yeah.
A:	I love to just lay back on the couch and, and turn a good, good instrumental got on and just close my eyes and listen.
B:	Yeah,
B:	that's, that's nice to do, that is.
B:	I've got a, I've got a, I've got a two year old who's now getting,
B:	I'm getting well versed in, in kiddy music
A:	Yeah.
A:	I'm, I've never played an instrument in my life,
A:	I've always wanted too,
B:	Yeah.
A:	I've always wished my parents had forced me to learn the piano or something,
B:	Yeah
A:	but, uh,
B:	I was one of the forced ones
A:	but I, I'd just love to be able to go to a party or something and sit down at the piano and bang out music
B:	Oh, I could never do that
A:	and,
B:	I was never that brave
B:	but, uh, yeah.
A:	I guess the closest I've ever come to participating in music is singing in the choir.
B:	Yeah,
B:	oh, yeah,
B:	I've, I've done, I've done that at church too.
A:	Yeah.
B:	I haven't done that in a long time.
A:	Yeah.
B:	So, let's see
B:	what .
B:	Well, what kind of music do you not like?
A:	Well, like I say the acid rock,
A:	I just do not
A:	an I don't care for rap music either.
B:	Oh,
B:	that's not music
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	no.
B:	that is not,
B:	I don't know what that is,
B:	but that's not music
A:	If I can't understand the words I don't want to listen to it.
B:	Well, it's, it's, it's not, it's not music,
B:	it's just, it's just, uh, uh, talking in a beat,
B:	it is just, it's not exciting at all
A:	Yeah.
B:	it doesn't, it doesn't give you relaxation,
A:	Yeah.
B:	you can't dance to it,
B:	you can't do anything to it
A:	Right.
A:	But, I, and I love, I like orchestra music too. Like the, Boston Pops or, or anything.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Have you ever been to the, to, to the Dallas Symphony?
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Have you?
B:	Is
B:	are, are they good?
A:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah,
A:	they're good.
B:	Are they?
B:	I, I have, I have, never been.
A:	And, uh, we went and saw, uh, LES MISERABLES
B:	Oh, really?
A:	oh, the music in that was fantastic.
B:	I, I've heard, I've heard that that is a really,
A:	Yeah.
B:	I heard that was hard to get tickets to.
A:	Yeah,
A:	it, it, uh,
A:	I can't remember how far in advance we reserved, tickets
A:	but it was out, you know, out at the State Fair Music Hall
A:	and, uh it was well worth the price.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah,
B:	that was a real,
B:	Was it?
A:	Yeah,
B:	I, I bet it was,
A:	Yeah.
B:	I, I really bet it was
B:	Is that the only, uh, musical,
B:	do you go see a lot of musicals?
A:	Just, just ever so often you know, a real, a real good one like that one
B:	Yeah.
A:	and,
B:	That, that would be, that would be nice
A:	I went and saw, uh, I think it was, uh, SUGAR BABIES,
A:	that was good,
A:	that had good music in it.
B:	Was it?
B:	How, how,
B:	I can't, I don't know what that's about.
A:	Uh, that was the one with Mickey Rooney
A:	and, uh, oh, what's that real, oh, not real old, my wife she is old too, dancer, uh,
A:	I can't think of her name.
A:	I got it right on the tip of my tongue and can't say it, Helen something.
B:	Uh, uh, uh, I think I know who you're oh, I know who you're talking about,
A:	real long legs, and dark hair.
B:	she's got black hair,
B:	Yeah,
B:	okay,
B:	I know who your talking about.
B:	I can't think ever her name either.
A:	I can't think of it.
B:	Yeah,
B:	that that was, that was,
B:	I remember that being, uh, here a few years ago.
A:	Yeah,
A:	but, uh,
B:	Oh, oh, the last country music,
B:	my, my parents still, uh, really like country, music
A:	Yeah.
B:	and they, they like, uh, they like the Oak Ridge Boys and the Statler Brothers,
A:	Oh, yeah,
A:	yeah.
B:	and, and, uh, well, my, my, my, my parents,
A:	The Blackwoods.
B:	yeah,
B:	my husband likes, uh, country music real well
B:	and he, he likes some of the new groups like Shenandoah,
A:	Yeah.
B:	and, yeah,
B:	he really likes Shenandoah.
A:	Alabama.
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah,
B:	well, yeah,
B:	Alabama,
A:	Uh,
B:	I think, I think they're a bit over exposed
A:	Yeah
B:	I get kind, of get tired of every other song being Alabama on the, radio.
A:	Yeah,
A:	either Alabama or Hank Williams, Junior.
B:	Oh, I, I've never cared for Hank, Williams, Junior.
A:	I never have either,
A:	and I never have figured out how he won, uh, entertainer of the year for about, three or four years in a row.
B:	Oh
B:	Oh, we, we watch those award shows too,
B:	we enjoy watching the country and the Grammies and stuff
B:	but I just, I just don't care for him,
A:	Yeah.
B:	I just never have.
B:	I don't,
A:	I guess probably my favorite all time country and western song or singer is, uh, probably Eddy Arnold.
B:	Is, is it?
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Okay,
B:	I, I think, I, I know who that is,
B:	uh-huh.
B:	I think my parents have have, uh, some of his records.
A:	But, uh, I got a, I've got about a hundred and, or had a, uh, some, uh, I sold some of them, I had about a hundred and fifty old seventy-eight R P M records of country and western, songs,
B:	Yeah.
B:	Wow.
A:	Smiley Burnette, I don't know if you were old enough to remember him him.
B:	I've heard the name.
A:	He was, uh, played in the old western movies.
A:	He was the sidekick of Gene Autry I believe
B:	Huh.
A:	or they,
A:	I think his name in, in the movie was Froggy
A:	and,
B:	I've, I've never seen a Gene Autry movie,
A:	had a real raspy voice,
B:	Huh.
A:	and, uh,
B:	No,
B:	I never have
A:	some of those old ones, of course, Bob Wills, Miss Texas Playboys Ernest Tubbs and Red Foley an,
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah,
B:	those go back quite a way
A:	Yeah.
A:	I took them up here to Collectors Records and was able to get a little money for them
B:	Yeah.
A:	but, uh, my mother and dad use to, uh, own a restaurant,
B:	It's hard to,
B:	Oh, yeah.
A:	and he had, uh, they had a, uh, nickelodeon, of course, in the restaurant,
B:	Yeah.
A:	and when they would come and change the records the guys would, the guy would give her the old records
B:	Well, that
B:	that's neat.
A:	so, that's where I got my,
B:	that would be great if they weren't too worn out, at the time.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Of course, there's not a whole lot of market for seventy-eight R P M records.
B:	Is there not?
B:	You, you'd, well you'd think there would be.
A:	Well, the problem is most of the record players now will not play them because, you have to have that needle, that, uh, particular kind of needle
B:	Well, that's true.
B:	Oh, yeah.
A:	and, uh, they, just won't play on a modern day, uh phonograph.
B:	Well, that's a shame
B:	because I, I, we go to antique stores a lot
B:	and you see seventy-eights, a, a lot at, at the stores, at record stores,
A:	Yeah.
B:	you'd, think there'd be a market for,
A:	Yeah.
B:	I'm, I'm sure you could find old players for them
B:	but that would cost a fortune, if you could find them that worked
A:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Oh.
A:	Of course, they, you know, just don't have the quality of records nowadays either because, you, you get that scratchy sound.
B:	No.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Well, those things were big and thick weren't they?
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah.
A:	Yeah,
A:	warped real easy.
B:	And the ones you buy,
B:	go out and buy one now
B:	and they're just so thin and, flimsy
A:	Yeah.
B:	and they just, they're not meant to last, at all,
A:	Yeah.
B:	neither are tapes.
B:	I, I we buy cassette tapes,
A:	Yeah.
B:	and machines will eat them,
A:	Yeah.
B:	and so, the best bet, any, these days are compact disk,
B:	those things are practically indestructible
A:	But, I, I guess, you know, the old country and western music you,
A:	back then when I was a kid, there wasn't that much T V,
B:	Oh, no.
A:	so that's all you had to listen to was the, radio,
B:	Radio.
A:	and, uh,
B:	that's just what, just what you had,
B:	plus,
A:	Yeah.
B:	I think it was better back then to,
B:	there's too much T V now
A:	Yeah.
B:	and the radio is, you know, more exciting, really, than, than television,
A:	Yeah.
B:	your imagination
A:	Yeah.
B:	kept
B:	and
B:	it just didn't vegetate your mind like television does
A:	Yeah,
A:	I remember mother and dad always turned on the Grand Ole Opera.
B:	Oh, yeah.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Was it on the radio every week?
A:	Yeah.
B:	what day, what day was that on,
B:	do you, can you recall.
A:	Uh, uh, seems like it was on a Friday,
B:	Uh.
A:	Friday or,
B:	Okay.
A:	Okay.
B:	Well what do you think about the idea of, uh, kids having to do public service work for a year?
B:	Do you think it's a
A:	Well, I, I think it's a pretty good idea.
A:	I think they should either do that, or, or afford some time to the military, or, or helping elderly people.
B:	Yes,
B:	yes,
A:	I, I, you know, I think that we have a bunch of elderly folks in the country that could use some help
A:	and I think that before we expend all our young talent overseas and, and helping other countries we ought to perhaps give a little bit of our help to our own folks at home
A:	and I'm not sure that that's not a bad idea
B:	That's true.
A:	and, or the military for a year or two, wouldn't be bad for,
B:	Yeah.
A:	I think it teaches kids how to grow.
A:	How about yourself?
B:	Uh, I agree with you.
B:	Uh, uh, what I'm thinking about is back well, when I was a kid, and much earlier than that, kids were kind of,
B:	you know, the parents kind of pushed them to join, like the Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts
B:	and they did, do, do do a lot of public service activities,
B:	but these days they're not, uh,
B:	parents aren't encouraging their kids to do things like that.
B:	Because when I was in the Girl Scouts, we did a lot of public service things, because that's just part of, of the scouting, and, you know.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I've, I've,
A:	that's really great.
A:	I, I really think that both the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts is a excellent, two excellent organizations.
B:	They are
B:	but parents,
A:	You know, kids seem like when they get ten or twelve years old they fall out of that,
B:	Yeah,
B:	they do.
A:	and they don't follow it at all, you know.
A:	There are very few Scouts go on, and become Eagle Scouts.
B:	Oh, no.
A:	And, and I don't know what the high rank is for the gals
A:	but,
B:	I, I, uh,
B:	senior.
A:	Oh.
A:	Senior,
A:	okay.
A:	So, there's not, uh,
B:	Oh, they're just not,
B:	once they get into junior high it just, not done anymore
A:	Yeah,
A:	they, they lose interest.
A:	and then when they young, young adults, there's even less interest there.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	They're more for, I
B:	Me
A:	Not, not,
A:	yeah.
B:	Grab,
B:	grab,
B:	grab,
B:	walk out
A:	Yeah,
A:	you're absolutely right
B:	Yeah
A:	I think it's a really a good thing.
A:	I, I like to see,
A:	of course, there's, you know, third world countries that can use all kind of help
B:	Yeah,
B:	but there's a lot that can be done right here in this country, too.
A:	But I think, we ought to start right here at home.
A:	I'm, you know,
B:	Yeah,
B:	uh, I'm not, I'm not so sure that overseas help, helping overseas would be such a hot idea for, for, uh, a lot of young people.
A:	No,
A:	it, it,
B:	But, since there is much that needs to be done here.
A:	I think that, yeah, I think that we need to really address what we've done here
A:	and, and then perhaps even a six month tour overseas that gives them much broader outlook.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Well, it's been really good.
A:	We talked about this for a few minutes,
A:	and, uh, hopefully, we'll have other good topic maybe another call someday,
A:	but I, I don't really have too much more to say on this topic, I guess.
B:	No,
B:	I, I agree with you
A:	It, we, I guess we both agree that it's a good thing, that they should do sometime.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Okay.
A:	Well you take care,
A:	and, and, enjoy the day.
B:	You, too.
B:	You, too.
A:	Thank you, ma'am.
A:	Bye-bye.
B:	Bye-bye.
A:	Do are you on a regular exercise program right now?
B:	Yes,
B:	and I hate it
B:	How about you?
A:	Oh, well, I'm kind of off and on.
B:	Off and on
B:	well, I guess I've been kind of off and on
B:	I've, uh, Had some health problems that have led me to, uh,
A:	Right now I'm kind of off.
B:	I'd say more on than off
A:	Okay,
A:	what type of exercise do you do?
B:	Uh, I do walking on the treadmill,
B:	and then I do low impact aerobics.
A:	Okay.
A:	I guess you don't enjoy that very much.
B:	Not, not really.
A:	Do you find that, uh, to be boring?
B:	Yeah,
B:	and time consuming,
B:	I mean it's not just the exercise that's boring and time consuming,
B:	it's, uh, you know, afterwards, you know,
B:	then you have to take a shower and get cleaned up, you know.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Well, I'm trying to get back in shape for softball this spring.
B:	Oh, yeah.
A:	But I,
B:	Do you go through this, is this something that you go through every year
A:	Yeah,
A:	I haven't decided whether, whether I want to play yet or not
A:	I just bought myself a solo flex machine,
A:	I don't know if you've seen those advertised on T V.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	It's one of those, uh, universal type machines, exercise machines.
A:	But I haven't really sat down and used it match yet,
A:	so it's collecting dust right now.
B:	Yeah,
B:	a lot of things do that.
B:	I had an, I had an exercise bike
A:	I used to jog somewhat.
B:	I use to have one,
B:	and I finally got rid of sit cause I never used it,
B:	but I do use my treadmill
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	well, that's good.
A:	Yeah,
A:	my parents have a treadmill
A:	it's,
A:	when I go visit them, uh, I get on that thing every now and then.
B:	Yeah,
B:	it's nice because when the weather's bad you can't, you don't have any excuse.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	I just got the bicycle out today,
A:	and it was real nice outside,
A:	had to get out to do something.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I can't ride a bike
B:	so.
A:	I've been sitting in here in the house all weekend with a cold
A:	so thought I, better, better get outside and do something and not waist the day.
B:	Oh.
B:	Yeah,
B:	it's too nice,
B:	it's been too nice all weekend.
A:	But, uh, yeah,
A:	I need to start jog something again.
A:	I've always of that to be, uh, really one of the best forms of exercise,
A:	but it's terribly boring,
A:	and so I really don't ever keep a program up consistently.
B:	Have you ever had any injuries from jogging?
A:	No,
A:	I never have.
A:	Well, I don't job enough I think to develop any injuries
A:	I usually only go about a mile or two.
B:	I guess it worries me about jogging it's that I hear that it's very hard on your body and, and that, you know, you can end up getting hurt, worse.
A:	Yeah,
A:	it's, it's tough on the joints if you jog on concrete, or on asphalt.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Suppose to be much better if you find grass, uh, or, or dirt to jog on.
B:	Yeah,
B:	that's not quite so so easy.
A:	You have to have the right, type of shoes too,
A:	that's, very important.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
B:	I found that, true especially from walking on toe and fronts .
A:	But,
A:	Yeah,
A:	I don't have to buy jogging shoes all to often
A:	my don't get very much use
B:	Well, I guess my breakdown about, they say about every six months.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	I usually enjoy the exercise I do
A:	but, uh, like I said I'm just not very consistent about maintaining a, a program.
A:	So I'll, I'll bicycle
A:	I get into that for, for a little while and maybe go out, uh, on a consistent basis every couple of days and ride a bike for awhile,
A:	but then I'll get tired of doing that, and maybe start jogging again and go out about three or four nights a week.
A:	But, uh, that gets old too in a very short order,
B:	Yeah.
A:	I'm, I'm hoping that this, uh, solo flex will, uh, uh, change things a little bit,
A:	I really need to get on a regular type of program and use that thing on a consistent basis.
B:	Yeah,
B:	well, don't let it collect dust.
B:	At least exercise while dusting it off
A:	Yeah.
B:	well.
A:	Maybe if I can get interested in playing softball again this string I can, uh, start some type of, uh, regular program.
B:	Yeah,
B:	that, that'll be good.
A:	I've always found that, uh, when you write things down and set goals it's a lot easier to keep, uh, keep something going.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh, when I was in high school we had a choice of, uh, taking, uh, physical education courses on exercise,
A:	an, uh, one of those involved a six weeks session on a universal machine, lifting weights and, uh, working out like that.
B:	Oh.
A:	And that was very helpful
A:	we kept charts of our progress, and, uh, consistently increased the empty of resistance so you could see how much you improved over the weeks.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I found that to be, uh, very helpful.
B:	Are you going to do that?
A:	Uh, I need to,
A:	I haven't started yet
A:	but, uh, it's a thought.
B:	Well, that sounds like something good to do then.
A:	Sounds like something I should do.
B:	Yeah,
B:	nice way to start off this spring. Get back in shape.
A:	How often do you, uh, uh, go out each week on your walking?
B:	Well, I do,
B:	I switch every other day
B:	one day I walk
B:	and one day I do the aerobics.
A:	Okay,
A:	how far, about how far do you go walking?
B:	Well, I'm trying to get my tolerance now
B:	I just had surgery, um, less then two months ago,
B:	and right now I'm just a little over about a mile and a half,
A:	Okay.
B:	but I'm trying to workup to three miles.
A:	Well, that's good.
A:	Well they say that walking is just as good if not better then jogging.
B:	Yeah,
A:	It,
B:	it takes, it's just that it takes longer to get to the same effect.
A:	Sure.
B:	Yeah,
B:	but.
A:	Well, if you keep up with a consistent pace just to, uh, keep the heart rating going, uh,
B:	My walkman broke,
A:	Yeah.
B:	so I'm upset
B:	and I just have to turn to stereo up real loud
A:	Yeah.
A:	But it's a lot less stressful on the joints then jogging is.
B:	Yeah,
B:	it is
B:	and this doesn't, you know,
B:	my treadmill has an incline
B:	and, you know, you can get a really good workout on it.
A:	Um, do you go to an aerobics class
A:	or do you watch, on T V?
B:	No,
B:	I, I just do it on T V,
A:	Okay.
B:	I have a cassette.
A:	Which, uh, shows do you watch on T V?
B:	Um, it's a, it's a
B:	I use tapes.
A:	Oh, okay,
A:	okay,
A:	like a Cathy Smith workout,
B:	Or, or Richard Simmons,
A:	or Jane Fonda.
A:	Okay
B:	Sweating to the oldies
A:	Right.
A:	I, every now and then I'll watch E S P N,
A:	I get cable on T V,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and they have, uh, a couple of shows called basic training,
A:	and, uh, what is the other one called.
B:	There was one guy I use to watch on E S P N,
B:	I don't know if he's still on any more or not,
B:	I I don't know if I get E S P N or not
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But, uh, one, you know,
B:	I use to watch one, watch one on the air,
B:	but that was back,
A:	BODIES IN MOTION that's, that's the name of the one I was thinking of. With Gill.
B:	That's was,
B:	yeah.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I watched that cause he was cute
A:	Yeah,
A:	he's not bad
A:	his assistants usually aren't either.
B:	But, uh,
A:	They're always in, in Hawaii some place. On, on the beach.
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah.
B:	But then that was back when, uh, you know, the high impact and,
A:	Yeah,
A:	well, they, they do low I pact stuff now,
B:	Do they.
B:	Are
B:	yeah
B:	they're still, they're still, he's still doing it then, uh.
A:	Yeah,
A:	every morning.
B:	I'll have to tune in.
A:	It's on E S P N, uh,
A:	at what time,
A:	I can't remember what time.
A:	It's, uh, you know,
A:	I can't remember offhand what time.
B:	I'll have to check it, check, check, check it back up,
A:	Yeah
B:	and, but the thing is everybody always looks so good on that show, at least on
A:	Yeah,
A:	every now and then.
B:	Not everybody has a picture perfect body.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	well, I found that they, they have just a much better program than the other shows that are on T V.
B:	I haven't watch any other ones on T V. watch=watched Just on some of the tapes.
A:	They're on weekdays at eleven o'clock every day. Monday through Friday incase you're interested in that.
B:	Okay,
B:	thanks.
A:	but, uh, I haven't done so much as, uh, watch the tape that I made.
B:	Now, that's a thought.
A:	So I'm kind of bad about that myself.
B:	Well, that's thought,
B:	I haven't thought about that,
B:	well they're going to beep us pretty soon.
A:	Okay,
A:	well, I sure enjoyed, to you about exercise and fitness.
B:	Nice talking to you too.
B:	Okay,
B:	thanks.
A:	So, all right.
B:	Talk to you later.
A:	Good night.
B:	Bye.
A:	Bye.
B:	Uh, well what would you say your opinion is on gun control?
A:	Well, I don't know.
A:	I've, I've had mixed emotions, I guess, when I listen to, uh, the radio and, and watch T V about the different, uh, things that are happening.
A:	Uh, I'm against it
A:	but on the same token, uh, I went out and purchased a gun just because I wanted the right to do that
A:	So I, I have a rifle in the house.
A:	Uh, the ammunition is probably so old I'm afraid to use it.
A:	But, uh, I bought it for target practicing and, uh, and also because I wanted a weapon.
A:	Uh, how do you feel about it?
B:	Well, I think, uh, down here in Texas they don't have a waiting period on handguns.
A:	Huh.
B:	And, I think they need that.
B:	Uh, and I do have a, I have a pistol.
B:	It's a little twenty-two
B:	and I have a twenty-two or a twelve gauge shotgun.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	you know, I do like to have my guns.
B:	Uh, I don't know if I'll ever use it, you know.
B:	And like you, my bullets to my little pistol's probably, uh, about three years old
B:	Uh, my gun hasn't been shot in a year or two.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But, uh, I like to have them where handy.
A:	Well, up, uh, up in New England where I'm from, uh, you had to get a permit before you could buy any ammunition.
A:	And I thought that was really good.
A:	And I think if they, uh,
A:	takes two weeks for that system to process, uh, your request for, uh, not as a gun permit but, uh, but to buy ammunition.
A:	You have to get a permit from the police station in your local area to do that.
B:	I've never heard of anything like that.
A:	Yeah. Uh,
B:	That would be nice.
B:	But,  you know,
B:	the criminals that are going to get their guns one  way or the other.
A:	I  I, I agree.
A:	I think, you know, one of the things that, that, that needs to happen is, uh, to, to stop the impulse buyer from, uh, buying it quickly and, and, uh, maybe putting a week's waiting period or something on it.
A:	But if someone's really determined to, to pick up a firearm you can pick it up any place.
B:	Yeah
A:	And you can get them really cheap.
B:	I know
B:	I, I had a waiting period on my pistol because I was down in, uh, Tennessee. And, uh, they had a waiting period
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, uh, we bought it there.
B:	And,
A:	How long was the waiting period out there?
B:	About nine days.
A:	Huh.
A:	That wasn't too, too bad.
B:	No.
B:	No
A:	Because if, if you're going to go buy something, uh, uh, of that nature, I think you, you're going to have some idea as to what you're going to do with it.
A:	You're not going to react that quickly.
A:	In other words, you know, you don't have a need to go buy a gun to go shoot it the next day.
B:	somebody wants to do that,
B:	I, I, at times I think they ought to have a waiting period on all firearms.
A:	Yeah.
A:	I do too. Uh, because it doesn't make any difference, uh, uh, whether it's a pistol or a shotgun, I suppose.
A:	They both do the same kind of job.
B:	A shotgun hurts worse than a pistol does.
A:	Uh, yeah.
A:	I suppose.
A:	I never got shot with either one.
A:	But I don't know, uh,
A:	I think you could recover from a pistol but not from a shotgun
B:	No,
B:	a shotgun's got too much of a spread.
B:	Or at  least ours does.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Uh, it's, you know,
B:	you have a little, uh, thing on the bottom of on top of the barrel where you, you turn it,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	you can make it either tight or as loose as loose can get.
A:	Oh.
B:	And the spread changes.
A:	Uh, I've got a manual single shot
A:	and I guess it doesn't have any, any automatic features to it.
A:	The further away I get, the, the, uh, wider the shot gets from the target.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And the closer that I get, the tighter that it gets.
A:	It's got a hell of a kick to it.
B:	Yeah.
B:	My husband had a, uh, a police gun at one time.
B:	And I shot that thing one time.
B:	Almost knocked me down.
B:	And it just a
B:	I I forget,
B:	I think it was a three fifty-seven.
B:	I'm not sure.
A:	Do you belong to a gun club or you?
B:	He belonged to one awhile back.
B:	Uh, since we moved,
B:	we've only been here in Texas for about a year
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, uh, we can't even find a place to shoot. Just for  target practice.
A:	No kidding.
B:	I'd love to get used to that shotgun.
B:	We traded his pistol for that shotgun.
A:	Huh. Well the, the, uh, clubs that we've got around here are kind of expensive
A:	but, uh, it's well worth it.
A:	You can go down and shoot up against a sand bag and some targets and have, uh, competition.
A:	Uh, I've never really joined a club because I haven't got the time. Not because I haven't got the desire.
A:	Uh, there's an annual membership fee, uh, that's, that's fairly high.
A:	Plus there's an initiation fee that you have to pay because of first time, uh, uh, member.
A:	So the whole process can cost you a hundred fifty dollars to join the club.
A:	Plus you have to pay for the, the ammunition in any tournaments that you would join in.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Well, that's what my husband,
B:	when he was in that gun club where he was doing that tell if it's a cough or something was
B:	It, you know,
B:	he went mostly just to, uh, shoot at paper targets.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh, but, you know, they used speed and accuracy and all that.
A:	I think that, that the gun clubs serve a useful purpose.
A:	In fact, I'd like to see somehow they tie the legislation into not only when you buy a weapon you have to, uh, show that you've gone to school or gone to some class to know how to handle that weapon.
B:	That's a good,
B:	I've never thought of that.
B:	That's a good point.
A:	And, you know, it, it,
A:	even after you wait your nine days, if you don't know how to handle it, it's just like putting someone in an automobile that doesn't know how to drive.
A:	And you give him a license because he waited nine days.
B:	Yeah.
B:	That's,
B:	and, yeah.
A:	He could, he could not only, uh, uh, shoot himself.
A:	He could, he could, uh, mishandle a weapon. Leave it at home and let a child get at it.
B:	It,
B:	well we, uh, we was living on a navy base down in Memphis
B:	and, uh, this one guy decided to play, uh, lonesome cowboy or something.
B:	And he was twirling his gun around and shot himself in his foot.
A:	Wow.
A:	He was fortunate.
A:	He could, he could of hit something else
B:	Well, he went tumbling down the steps along with, uh, shooting his foot almost off.
B:	He broke his leg and collar bone and a couple of other things I'm sure, being,  Mister Cowboy.
A:	Wow.
B:	I can't remember what the the term was going around.
B:	It was about four or five years ago.
B:	But. Now, I guess that would be a good idea
A:	About, uh, private citizens selling a weapons?
A:	Like if you wanted to sell your pistol to me.
A:	How do you feel about that?
A:	Do you believe there ought to be legislation guiding the, uh, buyer and the seller?
A:	And, or do you believe that you ought to be able to sell your system, uh, because you own it?
B:	Uh, that's a hard one because we did that.
B:	But, uh, I think there ought to be some rule against it.
B:	I'll, uh, you know,
B:	the person who sells the gun ought to protect themselves because if that gun's registered to them and somebody else uses that gun in something, the cops are going to come to you.
A:	Yeah.
A:	isn't  there a way to, uh, to deregister yourself after you register a gun?
B:	Uh,
B:	I have no idea.
B:	I've only  had one gun
A:	Because I   have,
B:	and I've kept it, you  know, the one gun that was in my name.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Is it registered?
B:	Yeah.
A:	The, uh, the rifle that I've got is not registered,
A:	and, uh, I don't know why I never registered it
A:	but the, uh,
B:	I don't think you have to register a shotgun
A:	Um, I, I think it's, it's voluntary
A:	The, uh, the,
B:	Well, see, uh, my husband has a thing.
B:	If they go to, uh, regulating, uh, all right, uh, banning guns. private citizens
A:	Yeah.
B:	this,
B:	my kid is jumping on me.
B:	I can't hardly talk.
B:	My husband feels that they'll come and collect everybody's guns.
A:	Yeah.
A:	I guess that could happen.
A:	It's just like the, uh, the social security system
A:	Once they, uh, they gave everybody a number
A:	and now they're making you, uh, uh, get one at, at birth.
A:	And  once they have your number, they have your identification.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And if you try to do anything, uh, like, uh, not identify yourself to the government, they know who you are.
B:	Yeah.
B:	And everything about you.
A:	And , that's true
B:	Uh, I,
B:	you know, they know so, how much money you make a week to, uh, probably your, uh,
B:	my kid is banging.
B:	I was seeing what they was banging on.
B:	Uh, I've lost my train of thought.
B:	I'm sorry
A:	That's all right.
A:	You, you were talking about, uh, uh, what the Federal government knows about people.
B:	Oh, the
B:	Yeah.
B:	They, they probably know everything from, half the time what time you go to the bathroom.
A:	They probably do.
B:	No,
B:	that's that's a little bit extreme.
B:	But they could know anything and everything about you.
B:	And, uh, I'd like to have my gun.
B:	but we wouldn't lose our our, uh, shotgun.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And, uh, we're wanting to get a couple of more that no one knows about.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But I don't, I don't, uh
A:	Do you find it difficult picking up, uh, guns that, that are not registered?
B:	No.
A:	No.
A:	I don't either.
A:	I can, I can buy some, uh, today if I wanted to.
A:	Just  you know, put up the money.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Well, you can look in the, uh, the,
B:	we got a thing down here called A SHOPPER.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	It's a, a it's a, it's a bargain thing.
B:	Uh, you go and you know, always see guns in there. Five to seven guns a day.
A:	Yeah.
B:	It comes out every Tuesday.
A:	And there's, there's no waiting period on that.
B:	No.
B:	None whatsoever
B:	You call,
B:	we sold a refrigerator through it
B:	and it took us all of twelve hours.
A:	To sell the refrigerator?
B:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
B:	You know. And I'm sure it'd be even less for somebody with a good gun.
A:	Huh. And I think the Federal government is, uh, is really far away from, uh, uh, control.
A:	I, I don't believe in, uh,
A:	I'm I shouldn't probably say control.
A:	I mean regulation.
A:	Control is something that I wouldn't want the Federal government to have.
A:	Uh, but I would like to see them have a monitoring capability so that they know who has what weapons.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Well, I agree with you there.
B:	They do have too much control over us already.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Uh, we could look at our paychecks and see how much control they have.
A:	Unfortunately, we, uh, we vote for the, the people who spend the money,
A:	so I can't complain too much.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I guess so.
B:	I don't know.
B:	They're
A:	Well, I haven't heard anything about the proposal myself,
A:	but, uh, Uh, I don't know if its their proposal or one that's being seriously kicked around.
B:	No,
B:	I haven't either.
A:	I've, I've always felt for a long time that I, I think that all young kids ought to do a stint, uh, primarily in the military.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Uh.
B:	Most countries require that now,
B:	they you know, they have, uh, it mandatory for, for the, the uh at least the young men,
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I don't know about the young women,
B:	I don't know if they have to serve in the military,  too.
A:	Yeah,
A:	a lot,
A:	yeah,
A:	well, you take Israel
A:	I mean, everybody does.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I don't think it's a bad idea,
A:	teaches, teaches a lot.
A:	I mean, I went in the service when I was eighteen, And, uh, stayed in for ten years.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Is that right?
A:	Yeah,
A:	uh, did a lot of growing up.
B:	I bet.
B:	You have to.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah,
B:	my father had been in the military.
B:	I didn't do it myself.
B:	My father had
B:	and that's, uh, how he put himself through school basically.
A:	Yeah.
B:	He came from a poor immigrant family,
B:	and he didn't have a chance to, uh, you know,
B:	the family wasn't wealthy,
B:	so he had to do something to,  put himself through school,
A:	Do it himself.
B:	and he did.
B:	And he was very successful.
A:	Well, my parents wanted to send me to college,
A:	and I was dead set against it
A:	You know, I had wanderlust, you know.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And I got in,
A:	and after, after wasting the first six years, partying and everything else, I decided, uh-huh, time to settle down and do something.
A:	So I started to work on my education.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Course my job was such that I didn't, I couldn't do it as much as I wanted
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and still I ended up going two semesters when I got out just to get my degree.
B:	That's pretty good.
A:	But, I've been in school ever since
B:	That's good.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I guess.
B:	Yeah,
B:	that's, uh,
B:	I don't know.
B:	There's other kinds of service to the country that could be done, you know,
A:	Yeah,
A:	I mean if you don't like,
B:	I mean, working in the national parks, Uh, working, clean up the roadsides
A:	Sure.
A:	Exactly.
B:	I mean, I've always felt that people on welfare should be required to spend at least part of their time, *why no slash? not all the time because that takes away from their opportunity to look for a job, but at least some of their time to look for, to go out and clean up the roads. You know,
A:	Oh yeah, Absolutely.
B:	I mean,
A:	All these, all this money that we're throwing away to pay people to go out and do things when we're paying all these welfare recipients,
A:	and if they're able-bodied people, I don't see any problem at all with having them go out there and, and, if nothing else, get a group of them together and take them around to old folks  places and let them cut the yards, paint the houses.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah,
B:	we'd learn service to other people   in this country.
A:	Sure ,
A:	sure.
A:	So I'm,
A:	get something out of that money.
B:	Country would benefit,
A:	Yeah
A:	I've,
B:	I mean, uh,
A:	yeah,
A:	yeah,
A:	my next door neighbor when I was growing up, worked for the unemployment division,
A:	and his sole job was just tracking down people who were getting benefits and able-bodied
A:	and,
B:	That right.
A:	Yeah,
A:	and he, he had all kinds of horror stories.
A:	You know, these guys go down there and get their unemployment checks,
A:	and, back, back in those days they also use to give you, uh, booklets good for, uh, clothing and gas, and things like this
B:	Yeah.
A:	They get all this stuff together and sit down and have poker games you know,
B:	Yeah.
A:	and I'm, I I have a hard time dealing with that.
B:	What I hear one time, I think it was on Paul Harvey's, uh, radio segment, that he said that if the money that goes into welfare each year was to be given directly to the people without all the middle people in the government bureaucracy, each person would receive like forty-five thousand dollars.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I mean, I was astounded.
B:	I don't even make that.
A:	No,
A:	I know.
A:	I, you, you think about, you think about the layer of bureaucracy between the money and the recipient,
B:	Yeah,
B:	and somebody's taking that away.
A:	and, and there's probably, there's easily probably six or seven times that amount being spent on the bureaucracy.
B:	Yeah,
B:	no doubt.
A:	You know, it's, it's, it's totally ridiculous,
A:	and now, I, I, I, uh, started out when I first got in graduate school
A:	I was going into public administration,
A:	and, uh, quite honestly I just got so fed up with it I just couldn't stand it any more.
B:	Is that right,
A:	Yeah,
A:	I mean, this is the kind of thing you look at.
B:	Yeah.
A:	You sit there
A:	and when you're writing up budgets, you wonder, okay, how much money do we need.
A:	Well, you need X number dollars for the recipients
A:	but you need X number dollars to administer the program.
A:	Well just ridiculous.
B:	Yeah.
A:	This is ridiculous.
B:	It's sad.
A:	It is,
A:	it's pathetic.
A:	I mean, there's got to be a different way.
A:	There's got to be a better way.
A:	But it'll never happen.
A:	I mean, these these people out here getting that money are big voting blocks.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
B:	What would happen if the required young people to do service to the country,
B:	what should they get in return, I wonder.
B:	Like, uh,
A:	I think, I think there ought to be some kind of assistance as far as, uh,
A:	and I would limit it strictly to something like tuition assistance.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Give an incentive.
B:	Educational or vocational training or something.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Something that's going to help them along the way.
B:	And they'll help the country eventually, too, because rather than having a bunch of uneducated people we can have educated people,
A:	Sure,
A:	I mean,
A:	Well, this,
A:	I mean I mean, look at the statistics,
B:	and that's only going to help.
A:	I mean, it's sad.
A:	One in five Americans can't read
B:	Yeah.
A:	adults, that is, can't even read.
A:	And, and we've got the lowest rates of the civilized countries in science and math.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I mean, what are we, what are we becoming?
A:	We're becoming a service country.
B:	As opposed to what we were twenty years ago.
A:	Yeah,
A:	we were an industrial giant,
A:	and now we're we're not going to do it because everybody is beating us at the game.
A:	We taught them how to do it,
A:	and they, they did it better than we do.
B:	Yeah
A:	Simple as that.
B:	because they have the ambition, I guess.
A:	yeah,
A:	simple as that.
B:	Yeah,
B:	which is good for them,
B:	but on the other hand, we kind of lose out.
A:	Yeah,
A:	it's terrible for us.
B:	I think that if, uh, young people had service to the country might give them more ambition. Because they learn that serving other people is a good thing.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah,
A:	and, and it can be good for them, too.
B:	Yeah,
B:	oh yeah.
A:	I mean, even, even the greedy kids that we've got now ...
B:	Oh god, you go to the mall
B:	and you see, you know, fourteen year old kids flaunting money, because the parents give them money to go down and play video games all night, you know
A:	I know.
B:	for what.
A:	I know.
B:	Give me the money
B:	and I'll, I'll teach them something good
A:	Well, you know, you know why they do it is so they can get them out of the house.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah,
A:	uh, that's my other complaint.
A:	Parents aren't parents any more.
B:	No.
B:	They've, they've relinquished their parenting.
A:	Yeah.
A:	One of the other subjects is do you think the public school systems are in trouble?
B:	Yeah.
A:	Well, as a substitute teacher for a year, I, I can say yes.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I mean, I talked with somebody else about that another time,
B:	and, you know, when I's in graduate school working on my master's degree in math, I was, uh, teaching as part of my, part of the program.
B:	And I just love teaching.
B:	That was a lot, that's probably the most fun I had.
B:	And, uh, it helped me out because I learned things and learned how to do things differently.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And when, uh, when come time to get out of school, I thought, Boy, I'd like to teach.
B:	But you know, for, for what.
A:	Yeah.
B:	You know, I don't want to live in a little one bedroom apartment the rest of my life.
A:	Exactly.
B:	I mean, that, that's a sad thing to think,
B:	and that's kind of selfish on my part,
B:	and I admit that,
A:	Well, in a way it is,
A:	but you have to look out for yourself you know,
B:	Yeah,
B:	that's right.
A:	I mean, that's
B:	That's wrong.
A:	Yeah,
A:	gosh,
A:	I mean,
B:	I saying teachers should be paid more.
A:	No,
A:	I mean yeah.
A:	They do an absolutely necessary job,
A:	I mean, I, I have a great deal of admiration for these people who can go out there and do that.
B:	Yeah.
A:	But, uh, I mean, there's, there's a sense of priorities here, too.
B:	Yeah.
A:	You know, we need,
A:	what's more important, picking up the garbage or educating our kids.
B:	Yeah
B:	They both have their place.
A:	Yeah,
A:	they, they,
A:	sure.
B:	But, you know, when it gets right down to it,
A:	I mean, one's
A:	I mean, on the other hand, I mean, you take a garbage man in New York City starts out at twenty-six thousand dollars.
B:	That's pretty good.
A:	Well I bet you there's a whole bunch of homeless people up there who would take that job for thirteen thousand dollars a year.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I mean, my other pet peeve is unions.
B:	Yeah,
B:	oh yeah.
A:	You know, it's just, it's, it's ridiculous the way unions have gone.
A:	There was a time when unions were needed.
B:	And they served a good function.
A:	And they served a good function,
A:	but there are enough laws on the books now that unions are outdated,
A:	and they're only there to perpetuate their own, their own power structure.
B:	I remember, the company my dad worked for, the people there went on strike against the management.
B:	It was a steel manufacturing place,
B:	and they, uh,
B:	this was during a time when the import steel was so cheap,
B:	and they were having a hard time.
B:	And they told the strikers there, look,
B:	we need you to come back and get this stuff done.
B:	Or else we're going to be out of business.
B:	And they wouldn't come back,
B:	so they went bankrupt.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And, and they all lost their jobs.
A:	Sure,
A:	and, and   and that's really what happened to the steel industry in this country.
B:	And it's like , you know.
B:	Yeah.
A:	So many times, I mean, you had the, uh, the coal miners and steel workers going out at the same time.
A:	And, well, that took care of that industry
B:	That's right.
A:	and, and, then, and I'll tell you,
A:	Detroit worked awfully hard on, on stopping car manufacturing in this country.
B:	And they're trying to do that now with the imports.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I mean, you know, we've never caught up,
A:	and I don't think we ever will.
B:	It'll be a tough road, though.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I mean, here it is,
A:	and we've got, we've got to go into partnership with the Japanese to build cars.
B:	Yeah.
A:	You know And they only did it because they, I guess they were embarrassed that they're so good at it
B:	Yeah.
B:	That's about right.
A:	Gosh.
A:	Yeah,
A:	well, back to the original subject,
A:	yeah,
A:	I think youngsters ought to go out and do some public service,
A:	I don't care what kind it is.
B:	It teaches them pride in their country.
A:	Yeah,
A:	and pride in themselves, too.
B:	That's right.
A:	They could, they could, I mean, you could organize something just within your community. same old thing.
B:	Yeah,
A:	I mean,
B:	that's right.
B:	That's like Eagle Scouts.
A:	Sure.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And that's a great idea.
A:	I think they ought to take them and, I don't know, just have sort of like a, a, a manpower pool and say Okay, look,
A:	we need somebody ...
A:	Okay,
A:	we're going to talk about the public school system, What's wrong with it, an, or if anything is wrong with it and what we can do about it, what should be done about it.
B:	Okay.
B:	Fantastic.
B:	Well one thing that pops into my mind real quick is, uh, about the, uh, funding of, the, the school system right now.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Evidently, uh, that's, that's a big problem.
A:	Yeah,
A:	it's amazing, uh,
A:	I always thought that teachers never got paid nearly enough, I mean, to be doing what they're doing, uh.
B:	Right.
A:	When I was in college I, I enjoyed teaching,
A:	'cause I did some teaching part-time
A:	and I really enjoyed that
A:	but I wouldn't want to go teach high school or junior high,
A:	it just, you know, all the problems.
B:	Oh, Lord, I mean, yeah,
B:	an, you talk about stress and pressure,
B:	I tell you what,
B:	it's, uh,
A:	Yeah,
A:	they're putting in fifty, sixty hours a week,
A:	I'm sure, because they've got to grade papers and get class stuff ready.
B:	Do,
B:	right.
A:	And, you know, and they're being paid, probably half what most people being paid.
B:	Exactly,
B:	and,
A:	And we're paying basketball people, you know, millions of dollars a year for, for what, you know.
B:	That's right,
B:	and then they, uh, poof it off, you know, do like Tarpley.
A:	Yeah.
B:	But, uh, I
B:	what gets me is I can't believe that Congress, uh, or, our state legislature can't come up with, uh, some kind of workable means to have funds for the school.
B:	You know, it's, uh,
B:	I just don't understand that.
A:	Yeah,
A:	it's, uh.
A:	Now do you have little kids, or what?
B:	No, uh,
B:	sure don't,
B:	my wife and I've just been married about two years
B:	but I have a sister that's a, uh, school teacher,
B:	and, uh.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah,
A:	my wife and I have a, a three year old, almost four and a, a two year old.
B:	Okay.
A:	So we're looking at the, the older one going to school next year. Not, not, well not this coming fall but the year after that.
B:	Okay,
B:	so it's getting close.
A:	Yeah,
A:	he's going to be going to kindergarten,
A:	so.
B:	Right.
A:	So, you know, we're, we're thinking about that.
A:	What's that going to be like.
A:	Are they going to be taught nothing,
A:	or they going be taught something,
A:	we're going to, we're going to be involved in our child's education.
A:	We're going to be teaching him what we can at home, of course, because, uh, I guess we don't trust the school system, which is very sad, uh,
B:	Right.
A:	but. But if it doesn't start at home, it's not going to go anywhere. You know,
B:	Exactly.
B:	Right,
B:	that's true.
A:	and we're going to try to teach him good values, because, you know, when, when they get to upper level school and they start teaching them, well hey, if you can play football or basketball that's what's important. Not if you can read or write, or do, or understand some science. You know,
B:	Exactly.
A:	I mean give me a break,
A:	that's, that's, that's bogus.
B:	Right,
B:	right.
B:	Well and, uh, you know, one thing my wife and I've talked about, are, uh, private schools. You know whether, uh, uh, we would want to invest in, in private schools as they're growing up, because, you know, just in the Dallas area, um, we're not real comfortable with the, with the public schools.
A:	Yeah.
A:	And Dallas, uh, school district just recently got an advised status because of their low quality schooling.
B:	Right.
A:	I couldn't believe that.
B:	Right.
B:	You know, one, that's one reason we bought a house here in Plano.
B:	We were hoping, you know, well the school district's going to be good, you know, for resale value, and, so on and so forth,
A:	Yeah.
B:	but, uh, I can definitely, uh, see on down the road, you know, where we do have kids and are getting to that age, that's going to be a definite concern.
A:	Yeah,
A:	we talked, you talked about before, about the school funding.
A:	I think there's only going to be one solution to school funding which I don't think will be necessarily the best way
A:	but I think what's going to have to happen is there's going to have to be tuition for grade school and junior high and high school kids.
A:	That's the only way they're going to fund it, because if they start raising taxes for property, and people are going to throw a fit.
B:	That's,
B:	yeah,
B:	and, you know, that's,
B:	taxes right now are political suicide. You know,
A:	Oh, yeah.
B:	and I don't think any politician's going to do that,
B:	so.
A:	Yeah,
A:	and the only thing, they, they would think of would be tuition, you know,
A:	if it works at colleges it will work down below.
B:	Right.
A:	And, you know, that's going to, that's going to affect the people that are having kids in school, of course, which is probably the only fair thing to do.
A:	But, it will be hard for those that people, that have, have in school because they have to pay out even more.
B:	Exactly.
B:	And, you know, it's going to really hurt the, the middle class, uh, people, I think. Because, uh, they're the ones that will probably have to, to carry the brunt of the load.
A:	Oh, yeah.
A:	That's right.
B:	So, uh,
A:	And most of the problems with kids in school carrying guns and, and knives and everything,
A:	I mean, good grief what's .
B:	Yeah
B:	now, that's, that's just unbelievable to me, you know.
A:	I can't believe that.
A:	I mean when I was in junior high and high school that never happened.
A:	You never heard about that.
B:	Well yeah,
B:	we didn't, we didn't even think about it, you know
A:	No.
A:	And now, you know, what do we have now.
A:	You know, got kids that, either got a, you know, a Magnum gun school,
A:	like good grief.
B:	right.
A:	I mean, I'd, I'd be afraid to be in school, I mean teaching, or even being a student
A:	and think what, what's it going to be like for my, my youngest, an my oldest son, when he goes to school.
A:	What's going to happen?
A:	I mean I, I'm afraid for him to go.
B:	Exactly,
B:	right.
A:	But there again , you can't hold them back.
B:	Another reason,
B:	and you want to encourage them, you know, to, to be active and everything in school,
B:	but, uh, you know, with all the peer pressure that's going on, with all the negative things, it is, uh, it's a tough environment to be growing up in.
A:	Yeah,
A:	and lot tougher than it was when I was going to school,
A:	and that was,
A:	well I was, I graduated high school in nineteen seventy-nine,
A:	so.
B:	Okay.
A:	That was what, twelve years ago, I guess.
B:	Right.
A:	So, you know, it's lot different now.
A:	And what's it going to be like in another twelve years when my, uh, oldest son is in high school.
B:	That's right,
B:	that's right.
A:	I'm afraid to, I'm afraid to even think about it.
B:	That, yeah, that is a scary thought,
B:	but, uh, I don't know,
B:	I, I guess what you have to do is just, uh, keep in, uh, you know, encouraging them and, and, uh, uh, try to be open with them, so that you can deal with the problems as they come up.
A:	That's all you can do.
B:	Yeah,
B:	and.
A:	You got to, you got to be your child's best friend, I guess, even when they're a teenager and they, you know are kind of standoffish,
B:	Right.
A:	still you got to be their best friend because when they've got problems, who they going to go to, their friends that are dealing drugs, or, or your parents. You know,
B:	Exactly.
A:	an, and if they go to their friends dealing drugs, they're going to be in even worse shape.
B:	That's right.
A:	And, and the schools don't, don't really encourage to stay away from that, you know,
A:	the schools are there to teach history and that we fought the civil war, etcetera, etcetera.
A:	They don't teach them good values like drugs are bad.
A:	I, maybe I'm wrong, because I haven't, you know, been in that kind of environment for a long time,
A:	but, it just is amazing, you know,
B:	Right.
A:	need to teach them good values.
B:	That's true,
B:	that's true,
B:	and, uh.
A:	Of course, if I say this is a good value, someone else is going to stand up and say, oh no.
A:	And the A C L U is going to get after them and have a lawsuit. Which is going to take twenty years to resolve, you know.
B:	Right.
B:	Well and I think, uh, you touched on it, you know,
B:	you've got to start them at the home. You know
A:	Yeah.
B:	that's where they, that's where they get the, the deep rooted values
B:	and, and, and, uh, and that's about right.
A:	That's all you can do.
B:	Then you just have to hope and pray that, that everything, uh, works out, works out okay,
B:	so.
A:	That's right.
A:	Well I got to be going,
A:	so, uh.
B:	Okay,
B:	well, hey, I appreciate the call.
A:	Nice talking to you today.
B:	You to.
A:	Have a good life, uh.
A:	Hi, Wanet is his last
A:	How are you?
B:	I'm doing fine.
B:	Where you from?
A:	I'm from New England.
A:	Massachusetts.
B:	Okay.
B:	I'm from Berkeley, California.
A:	Wow!
A:	This is quite a, quite a long distance.
B:	Yeah,
B:	it certainly is.
A:	Do you have any pets?
B:	No.
B:	Use too.
B:	Use to,
B:	but none, none right now.
A:	How come, uh, you don't have any now?
A:	You get tired of them?
B:	Well, I, I live in an apartment building
B:	and, and, uh, and, and, it, it, it's just not feasible  you know.
A:	Yeah.
B:	I'd love to have a dog, you know.
A:	I've got a little doggy, uh, that I've had quite, uh, quite a long time.
A:	In fact, she just turned sixteen years old New Year's Eve.
B:	Ah.
A:	And, uh
B:	Is she?
A:	I beg your pardon?
B:	What is she?
A:	She's, uh, uh, uh, a poodle.
A:	Uh, a toy poodle, a toy poodle
A:	and she's,
B:	Ah.
B:	Ah,
B:	my, I got my mom a teacup little mutt ,  not too long ago.
A:	This is a little bigger than a teacup.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And, uh, it's funny how, uh, how I, I, uh, acquired this animal.
A:	Uh, when I was, uh, married, my, uh, ex-wife had said that she had a friend who had a little puppy. That she needed,
A:	uh, the woman needed someone to baby-sit
A:	and, uh, this is what she had told the kids
A:	and she even told me that.
A:	And after the two week period was up, uh, she then informed me that the woman no longer wanted the little puppy and wanted to know if we wanted to keep it.
A:	Well, after you had an animal for a couple of weeks, it's, uh, you become  you become attached to it.
B:	Oh, for sure.
B:	Oh, yeah.
A:	So, I've had this dog now for, for sixteen years
A:	and she's been a lot of company
A:	Uh, she's, uh, however, getting a little old
A:	and things are starting to fail.
A:	Uh, I, I live alone now
A:	and she stays in the house all day while I go to work
A:	and, uh, she's been holding herself pretty well. The, uh, up until, you know, recently where she's been having accidents in the house because she either is losing control or she forgets where she is
A:	and, uh, I find a little present on the floor sometimes when I come home.
A:	But she's, she's usually pretty good.
B:	Yes,
B:	well. My, my mother has one that's, uh,
B:	it's, uh, it's, uh, teacup
B:	and, uh, it's made such a difference for her.
B:	But, you know, just, I, you know,
B:	the way my mom's presence countenance is, just, just for having a puppy
B:	but, you know, having this dog
B:	she's had it for, I guess three years now. Oh, possibly four.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But, uh, it was, it, it's it's really made such a difference for her.
B:	I really would like to, uh,
B:	I'm a disabled person
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	so I'm unable to, to, really take care of a pet
B:	and if that weren't so, I would certainly have one.
B:	I just, I just,
B:	it frustrates me sometimes not being able to have a dog
B:	yeah .
A:	Huh. Well, you might want to get yourself, uh, an animal that doesn't require much attention. Like a cat.
B:	Oh, yeah.
B:	Well, yeah,
B:	uh, I, I, I typically am not a cat person.
B:	I have a friend that, uh, has on occasion, uh brought her cat over for me to keep for, you know, from time to time
B:	And this cat is like no other cat I have ever seen.
B:	And, uh, it would sleep on my chest, you know.
A:	Yeah.
B:	It's just, it's just a great cat,
B:	but.
A:	Well, my, my personal preference is, is a dog.
A:	Uh, I don't know that, uh, that I would ever want a cat.
A:	Oh, I like cats.
A:	I just wouldn't want to own one.
A:	Uh  they're not, uh, they're, they're affectionate
B:	Well, you don't own cats.
A:	but they,
A:	yeah
A:	I don't know,
A:	I can't seem to communicate with a cat like I can with my dog.
B:	Yeah.
B:	You, they, they own you or, or, you know, grant you with you their presence, you know.
A:	Yeah,
A:	right
A:	Yeah.
A:	Right.
A:	That,
A:	yes,
A:	we're supposed to appreciate them.
A:	Well, my, my dog when I came home, uh, when I come home in the evenings, my dog greets me at the door.
A:	I don't know that a cat would do that, uh
B:	Yeah.
B:	I used to have, a cat that could read me better than any human being in my life.
A:	Yeah.
B:	I could just walk in the door
B:	and she knew whether to, to, to quietly come up to me or to just run and knock me over.
B:	I mean she really could pick up on my mood  uh, the way I walked in the door.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah.
B:	It was, uh, uncanny like a
A:	Huh. I, I think, uh, in a way we're able to read each other pretty well because, uh, she knows when I'm upset and I know when she's not feeling good too
A:	So.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I know like when she has an accident, I know she's not doing it on purpose.
A:	When when she was younger, she used to do that to get even with me,
B:	Yeah.
A:	Uh, and, and, you know, some people might not believe that
A:	but, but, but, uh, I do
B:	Sure
B:	Oh, absolutely.
A:	Like if I, if I put her in a room all by herself and close the door and leave her there for a few hours, uh, because I was going out. She would, uh, break something or rip up the carpet or do something just to, uh, to, to let me know that she was unhappy with what I did
B:	Really?
A:	Yeah.
B:	That's the way,
B:	well, I had that cat that I mentioned, Alfie .
B:	One morning, you know, the first thing you do is you get up and you, you, you feed this cat something and, and you make sure that it can get to its litter box.
B:	Well, for some reason during the night, the door was not quite wide enough for it to get through
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, uh, the next morning, uh, when my roommate got up and, and, uh, did not feed it right away, it decided that, that it was going to protest.
B:	And so it jumped up on my bed and anointed my blanket,  for me. Looking, looking at me eye to eye,  all the time while it was doing it.
B:	All right. Have I got your attention now?
A:	Oh, yes.
A:	Animals have a way of talking
B:	Alfie did.
B:	I tell you if I could have gotten a hold of that cat that day.
A:	I, I don't know that I'd, uh, that I'd trade my dog in for the world.
A:	Uh, it was about two years ago she got sick on me
A:	and I took her to the, uh, to the vet's because she wasn't eating and, and, uh, she wasn't able to jump.
A:	She, you know, lost all her activity
A:	and, uh, she stayed there for one day
A:	and the doctor called me up and said, uh, she had a low white cell count and that, uh, she wasn't, she was dying and, uh, suggested that I take her to a working dog hospital, animal hospital
A:	So I took his suggestion
A:	and I, uh, took the, the dog to a hospital. The dog hospital there
A:	and they said they'd keep her there for three days.
A:	Well, she ended staying there five days at a hundred and something dollars a day because she was in intensive care
A:	It cost me over five hundred dollars.
B:	Ouch.
A:	Plus, the, the, uh, the vet sent me a bill for what he did
A:	and, uh, then she recouped.
A:	She was okay for a couple of years.
A:	And then she got sick on me again
A:	and I brought her to a different vet this time
A:	and I told the vet what medication I had given her and everything
A:	And, uh, he gave me the medication, the same medication that I gave her the last time
A:	and she was okay
A:	and she's been okay every since.
A:	It's been about two years now.
B:	Huh. Well, that's great,
B:	it really is.
B:	I, I'm glad that she was able to pull out of it that way and so cheaply the second time.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Well, the, see the problem is if, if the, if someone would have came up to me and said it's going to cost you five hundred dollars to keep your dog alive.
A:	What do you want to do?
A:	I probably would have had second thoughts.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Of course, you would.
A:	But what they, well, what they do is, is they say, well it's going to cost, you know, twenty dollars for tests and forty dollars for this
A:	and, and, you know, and it creeps up on you.
A:	You don't know that, uh, you know
A:	You really, you don't know what it's going to until it's all over.
A:	Uh, to give you an example. My mom had an elderly cat who, uh, whoever evidently got a hold of it
A:	and, uh, the cat got sick.
A:	So she took the cat to the vet
A:	and she had the cat there for two days
A:	and then the cat died.
A:	So the doctor had called her up and said, uh, your cat died
A:	and you owe me this bill,
A:	and oh, by the way, do you want me to, to bury the cat
A:	So, it cost her three hundred dollars, uh,
A:	and she didn't get the cat back.
A:	So, yeah,
A:	they had to pay for all the medical, uh, bills that the cat ran up plus the burial expenses.
A:	And, uh, you know, she just brought the cat in because he wasn't feeling good
A:	So that  that was kind of a surprise
B:	Really.
B:	Geez.
A:	At
B:	Yeah.
B:	You kind of wonder what really happened.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Well even the, you know,
A:	they, they claimed they did the best that they could have have
A:	and then the cat, uh, died.
A:	So
B:	My goodness.
A:	I'm, I'm looking for another cat for them. Uh,
A:	I, I've, I've got a little kitten, uh, that's still, uh, just being born right now.
A:	So another five or six weeks I'll be bringing the little kitten over to, uh, to my folks.
B:	Well, that, that, that, that will make their day.
A:	Yeah.
A:	I, I think it will
A:	because they're both in their, in their seventies. And, uh, the cat, uh, although it's a little bit of work for them sometimes, it turns, it turns out to be, uh, uh, a pleasant experience for them.
A:	Uh, I think they enjoy that.
B:	Only work initially.
A:	Yeah.
B:	For cats anyway, you know.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Well, listen
B:	it's been a pleasure talking to you.
A:	Well, the same here.
B:	And you take care.
A:	Okay.
A:	Bye now.
B:	Maybe we'll talk again sometimes
A:	Okay.
A:	What is that sound?
B:	That's my buzzer at the door
A:	Oh, okay.
A:	I'll let you go.
B:	Okay.
A:	Right
B:	Thank you
B:	Uh, so what do you do to exercise?
A:	Uh,
A:	I, uh, weight train, uh, three days on and one day off.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I, uh, ride bicycles, uh, fifteen, twenty miles, I don't know, maybe three times, maybe four times a week.
A:	I play basketball, uh, couple times a week.
A:	I play softball one night a week.
A:	Uh, that's what I do.
B:	Um.
A:	What about yourself?
B:	That's pretty impressive.
B:	Uh, I guess I bicycle.
B:	Uh, the amount varies
B:	as much as a hundred and fifty miles a week.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh, I guess a play softball one night a week.
B:	And I backpack a lot over the summer.
A:	Oh, really?
B:	Yeah,
B:	that's, that's about the extent of it.
B:	I mean, I don't do any of those things particularly, you know, for exercise.
B:	But, uh, I guess the bicycling is the one thing I'll sort of, like, do if I feel like I need to go exercise
B:	Uh, but I do it mostly for fun.
A:	Yeah,
A:	uh, what do you ride, uh, like, a bunch of hills or pretty flat?
B:	It, it, it varies.
B:	Uh, out near my house is pretty hilly.
B:	Uh, but sometimes I bike to work which is about, uh, a fifteen mile trip each way.
B:	And that's mostly flat.
A:	How long does that take you to get to work?
B:	Uh, about forty-five, fifty minutes.
A:	How how does that work, work out with, uh, storing your bike and showering and all that?
B:	Yeah,
B:	it can be a pain.
B:	Uh, basically, uh, I work on a campus
B:	so I can store my bike in my office and walk across the, uh, campus to the, uh, gym, use the shower there
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	uh, but, it's, it's enough of a pain, that I did it consistently one year,
B:	I would commute every day, uh,
B:	but it just became such a pain.
B:	I mean we're talking, you know, forty-five, fifty minutes for biking, uh, and sometimes longer if you had adverse wind. And then another half an hour, you know to cool down and take a shower and all this kind of stuff.
A:	Right.
B:	It was a big hunk, hunk of the day
B:	Uh, and then of course another hour to get back home.
B:	Uh, so I've been doing that less, and, and concentrating more on, you know, light biking when I get home on the evening and then, you know, some more on the weekends.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Do you ride a lot of rallies or a lot of those around there?
B:	Not so much.
B:	Uh, I guess mostly I bike on my own.
B:	I've got a touring bike. Uh, though I haven't gone on any extended trips with it.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	How about you,
B:	what kind of biking do you do?
A:	Uh, well, actually my wife just got me into it
A:	and I did an, did an internship at the Institute for Aerobics Research in Dallas, the Cooper Clinic,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and I learned all the health benefits of, you know,
A:	I was a solid weight trainer,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and all I did was weights and aerobic exercise
A:	and then my wife got me into the aerobic exercise and said you really need to do it,
A:	so, once I got into this, uh, internship, I learned all the physiological advantages to it,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	so I began a program couple, I don't know probably three or four weeks ago
A:	and I did my first bike rally this Saturday.
A:	I did, uh, forty, forty miles,
B:	Um.
A:	and, uh, that's the longest I've ever ridden so far,
A:	I usually, you know, fifteen or twenty.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And it was, it was kind of hilly
A:	and it was pretty tough,
A:	but, uh, I'm looking at, uh, doing a lot more of it because, you know, my wife is really into it,
B:	Oh, I see.
A:	and I, I kind of held her back a little bit this, this weekend.
A:	She wanted to go, go, go,
A:	but, you know, she wanted to stay with me
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	It's good to have a partner.
A:	Yeah
A:	it really is.
B:	Are you think of doing any, like, centuries, or ...
A:	Yeah,
A:	that would be cool sometime if I could, you know, work up to that.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I just wondered if you were going to do that mostly or more like, you know, uh, uh, touring like from Vermont or, you know, that kind of, thing.
A:	Oh.
B:	I mean people seem to get into different aspects.
B:	One is more of a distance,
B:	and one's more, just, you know,
B:	they want to put some equipment on their bike and go for a tour.
A:	I've never really looked into that.
A:	That, you know, that's,
A:	my wife would just love that.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And I may do that sometime.
A:	There again, I'm just kind of a fledgling into this.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I've, it's kind of funny.
A:	I called this number
A:	and I was just reading through a bicycle magazine and going through all the different tours coming up.
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah.
A:	I mean, around Texas, you, you got about five or six,
A:	if you live around the Dallas area, you got five or six every weekend to choose from. Because they're really into it.
B:	Oh, that's nice.
B:	Um.
A:	Bicycling is really big here.
A:	I didn't know that, and, you know, until I came down here, and, kind of caught the fever.
B:	Wow.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Because I lived in Indiana all my life
A:	and, you know, you may say see one or two guys on a bicycle that, or above the age of fifteen or something,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but, other than that it's nothing up there like it is down here.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I'm not sure why that is.
B:	I mean, generally in the Midwest it seems to be less, much less.
B:	I mean, maybe it's because of the winters. Uh, or maybe just because, you know, there's, there's a lot more flat lands, you know, out in the West.
A:	Probably.
A:	Yeah.
B:	So it makes biking a better alternative for transportation.
A:	Yeah.
A:	It, there's a lot of bikers around here.
A:	It's, it's really neat.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	There are a lot of, a lot of resources, a lot of magazines, and stuff,
A:	little TEXAS BICYCLIST, is like a little newspaper that comes out every month.
B:	Um.
A:	It's free
A:	just go to the bike shock, bike shop and pick it up,
A:	and it's got all the rides coming up,
A:	so I guess I'm going to be busy about every Saturday this summer, going to a different ride.
B:	Oh, that's terrific.
A:	Yeah,
A:	see a little bit of Texas I've never seen before.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	So, uh, how long have you been biking?
B:	Oh, I guess as an adult for just about the past, uh, three years or so
B:	Uh, you know, I guess last time I did it before that was college, which was about ten years ago.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And, uh, yeah,
B:	I guess I just never really thought about it much for a while, uh, until I suddenly discovered all my friends were basically biking a lot.
B:	And so I thought I'd try it, too.
A:	Have you ever had a, uh, it's kind of slightly off the subject, but you ever had a, uh, a blood workup done recently or since you've been biking, to see if it,
B:	No,
B:	I haven't,
B:	no.
A:	because it really, from what I understand, it really improves your, uh, cholesterol
B:	Um.
A:	and, you know, it, uh, it kind of knocks down two of the big risk categories for coronary artery disease which is, uh, uh, low cardiovascular fitness, and also, uh, you know, the cholesterol.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	It gives you increased H D Ls and decreases your L D Ls.
B:	Oh, that's great.
A:	Yeah,
A:	so ...
B:	Yeah,
B:	I've, I've definitely noticed it's had a good effect on my pulse rate, my resting pulse.
A:	Yeah.
B:	You know, it gets it down to about forty.
A:	Really?
B:	Yeah.
A:	That's good.
B:	Yeah.
A:	You say you ride about a hundred, hundred fifty miles a week?
B:	Yeah.
A:	Man.
A:	That's, that's hard-core.
B:	On average,
B:	yeah.
A:	When do you get to begin with the winters and all that?
A:	What time of the year do you usually embark on your,
A:	do you ride inside if you can't ride outside?
B:	No,
B:	I'm not that hard-core.
B:	I mean there are some people,
B:	in fact a lot of people will ride outside in the snow.
B:	They've got a, uh, mountain bike, you know, with the big knobby tires.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And, I don't do that.
B:	I basically, I, I pretty much lay off for the winter.
B:	Uh, I was thinking of getting rollers for the last winter, you know, because it will help your balance when you're indoor training.
A:	Um.
B:	Uh, but I just, you know, more or less stocked, like an exercise bike and that kind of thing. uh,
B:	but, yeah,
B:	I mean winters are kind of a problem
B:	so, I'm more or less out of shape now that I've been biking, I guess, this year for just a couple of weeks.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh, but, you know, up here it's only stopped snowing since then.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Uh, but, yeah,
B:	it's, it's, it's, it's pretty good.
B:	It's, uh,
B:	the main, the main thing, I guess, for me is just to enjoy it because once it starts seeming like, you know, exercise and a chore I'll lay off it more.
A:	Right.
A:	So you, uh, change up your routes a lot, and keep a ...
B:	Oh, yeah,
B:	yeah.
B:	I try to go someplace pretty different, you know, every week.
B:	I rotate around, uh, about four different routes, uh, from my house
B:	or I'll sometimes come in the school.
B:	It's nice coming,
B:	it's, it's nice riding to school because it's all along a canal path uh,
B:	because it's just, it's along the Erie Canal up here.
A:	So, what school is it?
B:	Uh, University of Rochester.
A:	Oh, okay.
A:	Yeah.
B:	So it's fairly picturesque.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And, uh, so it's, it's, it's a good ride
B:	as long as you're not doing it every day, it's a good ride
A:	Yeah.
A:	That's true.
A:	Sounds neat.
B:	Yeah.
A:	It's kind of,
A:	I was wondering if I was going to talk with someone that never has exercised before and doesn't want to and everything else,
A:	but got a guy that rides a hundred and fifty miles a week.
A:	That's, uh, motivating.
B:	Yeah.
A:	That's really good.
A:	Well good talking to you
B:	Oh, it was good talking to you.
A:	and keep up the good work.
B:	Okay,
B:	you, too.
A:	All right.
A:	Take care.
B:	Bye.
A:	Bye.
A:	Okay.
A:	Uh, far as, you know, crime in the cities, I'm sure, like in yours it's pretty, pretty bad.
A:	Uh, probably the biggest thing we've got going now is the robberies
A:	and theft and probably murder are the two top ones that we have.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	How about you?
B:	Uh, well, I don't actually live in the city,
B:	but I'd probably say that's roughly right.
B:	I mean crimes against property seem to outnumber crimes against life,
B:	but I, I think with the current war on drugs and all this kind of stuff I'd say probably the police department would claim the number one crimes, crimes are probably solicitation of prostitution, uh, and sale of drugs.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	probably right, if you look at it from that stand point.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	What, uh,
A:	is there anything, uh, that you particularly are concerned with in your particular area as far as security and that sort of thing?
B:	Uh, where I live now it's, it's not so bad.
B:	I mean I can basically leave my front door unlocked and not have to worry about it.
B:	Uh, but I do have friends that live in the city
B:	and I think that they get a lot of fallout from this war on drug thing. Uh, just because there are, like, crack houses, you know, on their street and stuff like this.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Do you live in a real small town or, or out in the country?
B:	I live out in the country,
B:	yeah.
A:	How far out from the city, I mean, do you,
B:	I'm about fifteen miles out.
A:	About fifteen miles.
A:	I live in a little suburb, uh, which is, I guess from Dallas is twelve miles or so
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but it's pretty congested.
A:	We are considered in the country,
B:	Um.
A:	but it doesn't really feel like you're in the country.
B:	Um.
A:	Our major crimes in our immediate town, uh, is probably robberies, house robberies and very few instances of, you know, alcohol, drugs, uh, reported.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	However, I'm sure they're there.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	But, uh, right now our neighborhood is running about, uh, eighty percent of the homeowners have been robbed, sometime during their, their, uh, existence in that neighborhood.
B:	Wow.
B:	That's huge .
A:	And since that time everybody's got some sort of burglar system or, you know, uh, burglar alarms uh, and including the out, uh, the outer perimeter type, uh, devices, sensors and things like that.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	It's cut back, you know, considerably,
A:	but it, it just shifts it from our neighborhood to another neighborhood to other neighborhood,
A:	so it still, uh, remains city wide, pretty, pretty high.
B:	Are there, are there any theories on why this is happening?
A:	Uh, I would say the majority of it's happening during the day, uh, between probably ten in the morning and three in the afternoon.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Most,
B:	But why?
B:	Why is it happening?
A:	Well, most families, most families are young
A:	and both people are working.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	So they're happening during the hours they're gone from work.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh, so, uh, I would say that's probably their prime motivation.
A:	They'll, they'll stock your house and, uh, look at your pattern and then go from there.
B:	So they're professionals?
A:	Uh, they classify most of them as professionals.
B:	Um.
A:	Uh, you get a few of them that are a little bit sloppier, uh, just taking, uh, you know, just junk items that they, they can just get, you know, ten to twenty bucks for real quick.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Probably the biggest items that, uh, that you get in our neighborhood, or, would be the high classed automobiles,
A:	the, you know, Mercedes, Volvos, things that they can get, you know, big dollars for and the jewelry are the major targets,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	guns, that sort of stuff.
B:	Um.
A:	Very few, you know, penny, penny ante stuff.
B:	Well, what do you think can be done to reduce that sort of crime?
A:	Well, uh, the police force, for one,
A:	I think they could, uh, definitely add to the police force and the type equipment that they use.
A:	Uh, it's,
A:	oh, right now I think, we are about thirty thousand people
A:	and there's only eight officers that patrol for thirty, for that amount of people which is not very many.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Right.
A:	And,
B:	But, I mean, that's going to tend to,
B:	I mean it seems to me that sort of approach will tend to simply make the cost of committing the crime slightly higher
B:	in other words, you've increased the probability of somebody being caught a little bit.
B:	The real question is how do you convince people not to commit such crimes in the first place.
A:	Well, the,
A:	course in our particular state, uh, we have the prison overcrowding, whatever,
A:	so they're giving the early release, uh,
B:	Right.
B:	They're doing that in our state, too.
A:	Yeah,
A:	and, and it's,
A:	I think what they need to do is stop building more jails and start giving stiffer sentences, uh,
A:	but for the,
B:	So you think that would be a deterrent?
A:	That would be, certainly be a deterrent.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, not necessarily, you know, give in to their, uh, human rights desires.
A:	You know, if they're overcrowded, just keep cramming them in there till they just suffocate. Uh,
B:	Well, what about an innocent person who happens to have been found guilty?
A:	Uh, I think they'd have to go to extra measures to make sure a person's guilty, you know, in a lot of cases.
B:	Right.
A:	Uh,
B:	So you'd, you'd rather see it harder to convict somebody.
A:	I'd rather see it a little bit harder and have a little bit more evidence, uh, to convict somebody
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and then those convicted, especially of, you know, murder and, and, uh, you know, major crimes, uh, to reach the life sentences and, you know, death penalties and follow-through with that.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Huh.
A:	Uh, especially, you know, in the case of murder
B:	Right.
A:	uh, I know in my case, I, my wife and daughter were kidnapped, during a house robbery back in eighty-five
B:	Oh, wow.
B:	Oh, my goodness.
A:	and we caught, the individuals got caught,
A:	we, uh, we went through the court system and all that sort of thing
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and, uh, you know, two counts of kidnapping, uh you know, the, the forty-five to the head, you know, just the, the mental anguish and the whole nine yards uh, you know, the guy only got five years.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Right.
B:	Wow.
A:	And, you know, he was out within two months because of the parole system.
A:	So what, what,
B:	Did you, did you sue him under the civil system?
A:	Do what now?
B:	Did you sue him under the civil system?
A:	no.
A:	I'm not real familiar with that.
B:	Well, you could probably sue him for mental anguish or something, right, and try to get money from him
A:	Oh.
B:	and,
A:	Well, the insurance companies and all that tried to, tried to go after him
A:	and they said, well, you know, he, they're, he has no job,
A:	he has nothing,
A:	there's nothing that he has that, that you could go after.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Makes you wish that had, uh, still had indentured servitude, for this sort of thing.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Uh, very
A:	Yeah.
A:	They don't do that here.
A:	Course they pay them,
A:	but they don't, you don't,
A:	you or the insurance companies never see any of that money.
B:	Yeah,
B:	that's too bad.
A:	And, uh, you know, and they're right now they're reluctant to go after him because they're, you know, they're, they're repeat offenders,
A:	they, uh, been in jail before
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	uh-huh.
A:	they've been released, you know, several times, which is another, uh, deal I hate to see.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	But, uh, you know, basically the guy commits, you know three major crimes and, and, uh, and car theft on top of it, destroys my car,
B:	Yeah,
B:	I, I think that's
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
A:	and we're out, you know, uh, you know, fifteen thousand dollars
A:	and, you know, the guy gets out in two months
B:	That's awful
A:	and he goes out and commits it again.
A:	Fact, he's back in jail now.
A:	So, what, what, uh,
B:	Gives you sympathy for the vigilantes.
A:	Yeah.
A:	What, what deterrent does he really have?
B:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I think in our, in our particular neighborhood, vigilantism is becoming a real, real possibility.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh, we've had a couple instances where break ins where the people have actually, you know, shot the people
B:	Oh, my God.
A:	and, uh, return offenders have,
A:	they've actually waited for them, where they've robbed, you know, particular neighborhood,
A:	then other people will wait up, you know, and wait for somebody to do something else, try to take it in their own hands.
B:	Right.
A:	Course it doesn't always work out in their favor.
B:	Right.
A:	But, uh, nevertheless, I think people are just getting fed up and saying, you know, you can't arrest all of us,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	you can, you know, you can get some of us,
B:	Right.
A:	you can't get all of us.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh, and we're beginning to see more and more of that.
B:	And that, that's a deterrent, too. If you think the home owner might be armed, right, and awake
A:	Yeah.
B:	here you break in,
A:	Yeah,
A:	that's, I mean that's certainly a possibility in, in,
A:	we have had a few cases where the guy has broken in, you know, during the middle of the night and gotten himself shot to death.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, it helps for a while
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but then just another different set of people come in,
A:	and most of the people are transients from out, outside of the state.
B:	Huh.
A:	Uh, I would say probably eighty percent of them that are caught, they're from places like up in Oklahoma, and Louisiana, Arkansas, you know, across the, the border.
B:	Wow,
A:	So, you know, people who don't readily read the newspapers in our town or whatever
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	it's not many from the local communities.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	But, uh, it's a problem,
A:	and I, I just, I think that the court systems need to be more accurate in, in, stiffer in their penalties,
B:	Yeah.
A:	would be a definite deterrent
A:	and, and, uh, giving the, uh, police, uh, agencies a little bit more jurisdiction over what they do when they, when they catch these people.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	I mean, I, I tend to agree with you.
B:	I think, uh, what I would like to see is, number one, completely getting rid of these victimless crimes. Uh, there's no reason to enforce those and spend time and money doing it and, and worry about these things where people are getting hurt.
A:	Right.
B:	And I think one of the big things that you can do is, to increase deterrence is, uh, if someone is found guilty of a, uh, felony level offense, they lose their citizenship.
B:	And they lose their constitutional rights. You know,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and just a lot of things that we're trying to worry about, you know, protecting these people from, we just don't protect them.
A:	I know like in my wife's case, they made her feel like the criminal.
B:	I know,
B:	and I think, I think that's ridiculous.
A:	They, they went to all, all ...
A:	Okay,
A:	have you painted something lately?
B:	Yes,
B:	I have.
B:	That room I showed you.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And then since then we have painted the bedroom.
A:	Oh yeah,
A:	another bedroom.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I showed you that one too didn't I?
B:	The brown one.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah,
B:	the one that looks like a fudgesicle.
A:	Oh yeah
B:	Yeah.
A:	Oh heavens.
A:	Well, I painted the outside of my house and one bathroom.
B:	Yeah.
A:	But I get, I have that problem with the the ceiling, you know, the, uh, the blown, blown, ceiling. You know where you get around the edge.
B:	Oh yeah.
B:	Well, that is hard.
B:	Now, I asked Janice, or somebody recently how you do that uh, when you paint the ceilings you know where you have got that textured stuff, that they have special rollers that are real soft and furry that you paint that with.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Well, how do you get the edge though?
B:	How do you get the edge?
A:	The the straight edge?
B:	You just have to be real careful.
A:	Oh, I see.
B:	We use, uh, uh, a two inch brush with, uh, on a slant
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and that mostly does it even though you still make mistakes.
B:	But.
A:	Huh. Well are you going to paint the outside of your house too?
B:	Well, yeah.
B:	I think I am going to do it this spring actually.
A:	Oh really?
B:	Yeah,
B:	there are six houses.
B:	See the people that own the house they, uh, pay for anything like that, that we do.  As far as the the materials.
A:	Oh nice.
B:	There are three houses on this street the same color of yellow out of six houses.
A:	Yeah.
B:	So, I am thinking I am going to change it to, uh, something, you know,
B:	the brick is multi color. Mostly earth tones.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Oh, that will be nice.
A:	Huh.
A:	Or, two tone, or two tone. You know.
B:	Yeah.
B:	There are some columns that could be painted a different color too.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	What color did you paint your house?
A:	White.
B:	On the out,
A:	But, I have a problem.
A:	I can't get up high
A:	and we can't paint the chimney
B:	Well, you have got to get one of those ladders.
A:	We have one of those ladders.
A:	We are just not willing to get up that high.
B:	Oh, yeah.
B:	A friend of mine that lives out in your neighborhood, he has done his house
B:	and that is what he,
B:	I was out there last week
B:	and he has finished everything except the chimney.
A:	Well, we did too.
A:	We did it in the fall
A:	and it, it's just too high.
A:	It is really scary,
A:	but and the only thing I would consider doing, a professional, maybe doing that,
B:	Yeah.
A:	but it
A:	other than doing our own work I prefer it to a professional.
B:	Well, our house in New Mexico, it was stucco,
B:	but we had all this trim to paint, and lots of it.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And we did basically seventy-five percent of the house
B:	and then I was afraid to do the eaves way up high and stuff.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So, I hired this man to come in and do it. A young kid.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And he came with, with his own
B:	what do you call those things?
A:	The blowers?
B:	No,
B:	those where you built like a rafter thing.
A:	Oh, oh, oh, oh, I know what you are talking about. Uh
B:	Yeah.
B:	Scaffold.
A:	scaffold.
A:	That's it
B:	He came and did it that way
B:	and I think he charged me a hundred dollars to finish up.
A:	Huh.
B:	And literally I wouldn't have done it with the scaffolds because all the places that I had left for him were above huge humongous cactus
A:	Its,
A:	Yeah.
B:	and if he fell, he was dead
B:	and he knew that
B:	So,
A:	Oh, my.
A:	So that was worth it getting a professional for that.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Plus, he cleaned up my mess.
A:	Oh, I think that is what we might have to do with this chimney,
A:	but other than that, it was pretty easy doing it ourself and caulking it and everything ourself.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	It wasn't too bad.
A:	I mean you think,
B:	How much did it cost you for the paint for the outside?
A:	Shoot, maybe a hundred and fifty.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Since, it is a one story,
A:	but we did, uh, like two heavy coats over it.
A:	But then that way  you know you are assured you did a good job than you are, you know, if you hire someone to do it.
B:	Yeah.
B:	But, that friend of mine that painted his house out there in your neighborhood he went to, uh, I guess to buy his paint
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and yet he bought like seventeen gallons.
A:	My word.
B:	And, anyway, he, when he checked out and he was using his charge card too. They only charged him for one gallon of paint. Like thirteen bucks or something.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Oh, my word.
B:	And he had, he had, the, uh, he had already carried a ladder outside and told her that
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and she wrung all that stuff up and made a mistake on the price of the paint
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	so she had to start all over again
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and when he got outside, he noticed his receipt was like thirteen ninety-nine or something.
A:	Oh, my word.
B:	And he saw .
A:	So that was really worth it. Painting his own house.
B:	Yeah,
B:	it was like over two hundred dollars worth of free stuff.
A:	Oh, my word
A:	Oh, my word.
A:	Well, he really saved in that way.
B:	Yeah.
A:	But, yeah,
A:	I think we are going to do, uh, another bathroom,
A:	but I think I will probably just do it, in a roller.
A:	I want to do it about the same color. And just be a little,
B:	Uh. Rollers are so messy.
B:	We never any more.
A:	Oh, I know.
A:	But it's that, it's the textured wall.
B:	Well, a little paintbrush,
B:	So what do you think?
A:	Uh, the causes of crime?
A:	Um, I think it was imbalance of power in the United States.
A:	It's causing the lower class to rebel.
A:	That's why there's such high crime,
A:	and, uh, there's crime in, uh, young people because they don't have role models
B:	Yeah.
A:	see too much crime on T V
A:	and they think it's the way to go.
A:	I don't know.
A:	What do you think?
B:	What about,
B:	I agree with the upper and lower level, you know
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	because that's the lowest thing for themselves,
B:	plus there's nobody for them to look up to.
A:	Yeah.
B:	But I also blame some of it on parents
A:	Okay.
B:	because parents aren't parents.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Because I remember even when I was growing up,
B:	I'm thirty-five
A:	Okay.
B:	I remember when I was growing up,
B:	and I had friends,
B:	they used to do stuff like, you know, go over to a store and steal stuff.
B:	My mother warned us, it's like, I don't care what your friends do.
B:	If you do it, then that was it.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And I knew that I would get in more trouble from my mother than from from anybody else.
A:	From anybody else.
A:	Yeah.
B:	so they don't care.
A:	Yeah.
B:	So.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I think I can agree with that too.
B:	But now, as far as what they can do about it, I don't know.
B:	You can't make parents be parents
A:	That's true.
A:	You got to kind of make people want to do the right thing.
B:	You know.
A:	I don't know how you do that.
B:	I guess if you gave the, gave them jobs,
B:	that's another problem with the United States,
B:	there's no jobs any more.
A:	Yeah.
B:	But.
A:	Well, I've heard this one theory, that if, that if a kid commits a crime, that, uh, instead of the, prosecuting the kid, they prosecute the parent.
A:	Or both of them.
B:	That would work to a point,
A:	Now, to put the blame on the parent.
B:	Well, that'd work to a point because some kids are just bad anyway.
B:	I don't care what you do to them.
A:	Yeah.
B:	You know,
B:	so I think it depends on how much trouble that kid has been in, you know.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Because a, a, a child can get into anything
A:	Yeah.
B:	I don't care how good you, they are.
A:	Yeah.
B:	at least one time,
B:	but now if this is a repeated thing,
B:	here with this child in juvenile,
B:	and or, to me, yeah, both of them.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Because that means she's still not doing what she's supposed to do.
B:	Because I just watched it on T V one night on one of them, um, Twenty Twenty, Forty-eight hours, one of them shows where this boy had been stealing cars.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
B:	I don't know if you seen this.
A:	Um.
B:	it was a little, it was a little gang of them stealing cars, you know,
A:	No,
A:	I didn't see it.
A:	I understand.
B:	And then when they caught him, you know, his mother sitting there,
B:	now they going to take me away from you.
B:	That meaned she was warned.
A:	Yeah.
B:	But see, by that, I think sometimes it's a little late.
A:	Yeah.
B:	You know,
B:	but I'm sure there's something can be done.
A:	Yeah.
A:	What about with adults?
A:	Anything do any about adult crime.
B:	Yeah,
B:	start prosecuting they
A:	Yeah.
A:	Well, for one, a major problem with that is the jails are overcrowded.
B:	Well, they should start with, the,
B:	if they would get rid of.
B:	Seems to me, I know there's a lot about court that people don't understand.
B:	There's more people in jail right now for child support, okay then there are for people doing drugs.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Um.
B:	You ought to take all them little misdemeanor people
A:	Yeah.
B:	let them go,
B:	let them go
A:	Yeah.
B:	you know, give them a fine, whatever,
B:	make them do civic duty whatever,
A:	Yeah,
A:	I mean seriously,
A:	they ought to put those people to work.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Little rock stars, put all them in there.
A:	Um.
B:	You know, the murderers, the drug dealers, the user, put them all in
B:	jail you know,
A:	Yeah.
B:	and let all the normal people go
A:	Yeah.
B:	you know, because, okay,
A:	Yeah.
B:	Let them people go.
A:	Well.
B:	Not let them go and get out of it.
A:	Yeah,
A:	they, you still have to punish them.
B:	Let them go and pay their crime or their time doing something else you know, like cleaning up the city or however they do their community time, you know, whatever that is
A:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah,
A:	that's,
B:	But don't put them in jail because they're not hardened criminals.
A:	Yeah,
A:	and they're, they're still, they can provide for society,
A:	whereas some of them are so far gone that they can't do anything good for society.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	So.
B:	I don't know,
B:	some people, boy, they got,
B:	I think the United States has got too many problems to be worrying about everybody else.
A:	Yeah,
A:	that's true.
B:	Now how they going to fix it, I don't know.
B:	I don't think there is a ready solution.
A:	No,
A:	I don't think so either.
A:	Uh.
B:	Because the economy is down, people, you know, the, the, the low man on the pole is getting more of the, I guess, the bulk of it.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And he's got to work extra hard just to make ends meet.
A:	And they keep taking more money from us
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and people are get,
A:	and they don't have any incentive to work if we're just going to take fifty percent of it.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Might as well steal,
A:	then they don't have to pay taxes on it
B:	That's it.
A:	Yeah.
B:	So, you know, they, I, I, I know that's bad, but, you know, just like Texas now.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	They could have had a lottery.
B:	They don't want a lottery.
B:	Why not?
B:	I would rather pay for a lottery a dollar, two, three dollars, whatever I'm paying, you know a week or whatever, and never see any of that money, than to have them take a portion of my paycheck.
A:	They'd have a,
A:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Because, you know, they take,
B:	and Uncle Sam takes his,
B:	the Social Security which probably won't be here when I get that old you know.
A:	Um.
B:	Because we're paying for Social Security they using now.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Who's going to pay for mine?
A:	I don't know
B:	But it's, it's
A:	I'm not counting on it.
B:	No,
B:	you don't count on Social Security.
A:	Yeah.
B:	But, it's, it's,
B:	that's what I'm saying,
B:	they need to do something else.
A:	Um.
B:	But.
B:	Crime is going to go up as long as the economy stays down.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And it's going to get worse.
A:	Yeah.
B:	That's just like last night they killed them people in that store.
B:	Where you at?
A:	I'm in Raleigh, North Carolina.
B:	Oh
B:	No wonder you don't know that.
A:	Well, where are you from?
B:	I'm in Dallas.
A:	Okay.
B:	But last night, they killed, uh, uh, four people in a chain food.
A:	Oh, man.
B:	well, it was two stores side by side.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	One was a store and one was like a, a fast food place,
B:	chicken or something, I don't know.
A:	Yeah.
B:	I mean, they just beat them.
B:	Stuck them in the freezer and then shot them all.
A:	Ow.
B:	Why was, you know, why
A:	Why did they do in the freezer?
B:	you know, why didn't they just,
B:	if they was going to lock them, just lock them in the freezer, take the money, you know.
A:	Yeah.
B:	They didn't have to kill them or rape them, or anything.
A:	Um.
A:	Um.
A:	That's awful.
A:	Yeah,
A:	we still get some in Raleigh.
A:	I mean, not not too often real bad ones,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but.
B:	It's just getting really ridiculous down here.
B:	I wish I could move somewhere where, this, you know, you got to like in the country.
A:	I don't think there's anywhere where there isn't going to be crimes.
B:	Well, I think, if it's,
B:	the town is smaller
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and everybody knows everybody
A:	Yeah.
B:	it's harder to come in there and do something.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Where is,
B:	and, and, and see that's another thing.
B:	Neighborhoods aren't neighborhoods any more.
A:	Yeah.
B:	There's nobody is next door to you,
B:	you don't know your neighbors, and stuff like that.
A:	Yeah.
B:	It's just, huh-uh, you know,
B:	because I moved out some apartments before because they were loaded with drug dealers.
A:	Um.
B:	And you didn't even,
B:	and what the manager, the manager won't even do anything.
A:	He's probably a drug dealer himself
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	You never know.
B:	You don't.
B:	And so I moved,
B:	because I moved the day probably a week after one of the apartments blew up you know,
A:	Wow.
B:	and this is like across the street.
B:	This was a nice part of town
A:	Um.
B:	and there across the street one of the apartments blew up because they were having that, making that, um, crack stuff
A:	Um.
B:	and then, the other time I saw the cops break down somebody's apartment around the corner.
B:	I say, See, this is it.
A:	Time to go.
B:	That's it,
B:	and I moved.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And, you know, now I live in like a a neighborhood in a town house,
B:	but it's nice.
B:	I don't, you know.
A:	Yeah.
A:	I'm kind of in the same, same kind of deal, town house in a neighborhood.
B:	But,
A:	It's pretty nice.
B:	I don't know how they can live, a neighborhood or apartment complex.
B:	That's what happen, that's what wrong, you know.
B:	I don't think, don't rent to them
A:	Yeah.
B:	Or rent to them and evict them because they drug dealers.
B:	Put it on the lease.
A:	Yeah.
B:	If you deal drugs, you can't live here.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Most of them are too scared to do anything about it.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	That's it.
A:	Yeah.
A:	All right.
A:	Well listen, I got to go.
B:	All righty.
A:	Nice talking to you.
B:	And I thank you.
A:	All right.
B:	Bye-bye.
A:	Bye-bye.
B:	Um, all right.
A:	I've, uh,
A:	and I think that comes about from their being a definite factor in the job market now.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Oh, well, I tend, I tend to agree.
B:	Uh, in some ways I think it's, uh, I think if anything, a lot of, um, the changes that have occurred, uh,
B:	in some ways they're for the better
B:	because I think women should have a choice,
B:	and I do believe in the, being able to have a choice as to, as far as, what you would like to do with your life.
B:	But by the same token, and I know this for myself because I've worked and I've not worked, um,
B:	that it makes it, uh, sometimes it makes life more difficult.
B:	I think when the roles now are less defined, as far as, you know, what, uh, women should or should not be doing, that it, it, it could make life more difficult.
B:	There are more things to work out.
B:	I know when I was working, you know, you have all these problems with, with the child care and, and with, uh, pleasing, you know, your boss on the job,
B:	so you have added stresses from there
B:	and then you still have all the things that, um, that you need to do at home
B:	and that doesn't change, you know,
B:	just because your going out of the house for so many hours a day doesn't, uh, make those other things go away
B:	and the other responsibilities are still important.
B:	Um,
B:	so, um, have you, have you worked outside, also and, um, feel that, it, that,
B:	well, how do you feel, as far as, uh,
B:	what would be a happy medium
B:	or, or what would you like to see?
A:	I would like, uh,
A:	yes,
A:	I have worked outside of the home
A:	and, I was in one of those safe occupations.
B:	Yes.
A:	I was a school teacher,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and we had one child when I taught for my two year career.
B:	Uh-huh
A:	Uh, we,
A:	uh, then I stopped teaching after my husband's business was established,
A:	and we had two children
A:	and I stayed home with those children, and raised those children
B:	Yes.
A:	and now that my husband has retired, I am back substitute teaching,
B:	Yes.
A:	which if anyone has ever been involved in that, some days it's fun
A:	and some days you wonder why you're even bothering,
B:	Right
A:	because your fighting for your life.
B:	But,
B:	yeah.
A:	But, I am a fighter
A:	and I've always been a disciplinarian.
A:	Uh, I'm, I'm not real sure that the young girls of today are being forced into the job market as many of them imply.
A:	I think they're going in by choice.
B:	Oh, I think so.
B:	Yes.
A:	Yes.
A:	And, and I have no problem with that,
A:	And I think too many of the young professional wives in our small town of five thousand, uh, are not letting that happen.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	They are very aggressive.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	They're, uh, they almost have what I would call a killer killer bee instinct.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And they have to be in charge.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Children Well, what do you think, ater running
B:	though, um, um,
B:	I don't know.
B:	I,
B:	the, the one problem I guess I have,
B:	and maybe what so many women, younger women now are choosing to go outside is,
B:	I feel that in general, in this society, that being at home is not looked upon as, um, a job in itself.
B:	Whereas, you know, you hear a lot of women that are home saying that it is a job in itself,
B:	but I know when I was working,
B:	and I was an engineer so I was always with men,
B:	uh, and they were single, many of them,
B:	and I tried to explain to them, well, my day doesn't end when I leave at,
B:	I used to leave at three, I keep going to eleven at night
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and they had, they used to look down on women that were home,
B:	they'd say, oh, I bet you go home and,
B:	you know, at least you get out of here at three
B:	and you can go home and put your feet up and watch soap operas,
A:	Oh, sure <laughter>.
B:	and I used to be infuriated,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	because they really had no idea what was involved once I got home.
B:	Now taking care of them, running them everywhere, helping with homework, the bath, the whole, you know, everything.
B:	Um, and I think that one reason that so many younger women feel compelled to go into a profession is that they feel that if they stay home they are not respected, and that being home is not a respectable, uh, position in society.
A:	Huh.
B:	And, there's a lot of truth to that
B:	and I don't know how you feel.
B:	I don't know how you felt when you were home and what kind of feedback you got,
B:	but I can see with the younger men that they definitely are looking down upon women that are home.
B:	And yet by the same token, I think some of it is jealousy,
B:	once in a while, you hear them say things like, I wish I had the choice, you know.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I wish I was the one,
B:	I would stay home with my kids if my wife would go out and support us,
A:	If my wife had an education and could support us,
A:	and the only value I see coming out of, this is that children now in, in a two parent home, they now actually have two parents,
B:	<Children> Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah.
A:	because I see my sons-in-law,
A:	I have a daughter who's a nurse
A:	and I have a daughter, who's a beautician.
B:	Right.
A:	And I see, my sons-in-law cooking and, dropping children off at the sitter and, picking children up from school and, and having a much better relationship with their children, than my husband ever did
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Right.
B:	Right.
B:	Right <noise>.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	That's true.
A:	because he, left home at five thirty in the morning,
B:	That's true.
A:	and he got home at six fifteen.
B:	Yes.
A:	And, uh, he ate his dinner
A:	and he was asleep in his chair because he was exhausted.
B:	Right.
A:	So, now the young fathers are having a chance to parent,
A:	and I think, that's an advantage.
B:	And they enjoy it.
B:	Yeah.
B:	And they do enjoy it.
B:	I, I see,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	you're right.
B:	I see many more men in the supermarket, in the parks with their children,
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
B:	and I think that is healthy because
A:	And I think it's a, a wonderful advantage for the young, for the, for the, particularly for the males, for the little boys to have, a relationship with their father,
B:	Right.
B:	Oh, yeah.
A:	and, and I don't, think you, we get into so much of the mother dominating figure, if, if the father has more input there.
B:	Yes.
B:	Yeah.
A:	But, uh, I don't understand why the young girls feel like they have to build roads,
A:	and they have to, that kind of job, uh, to go out there and shovel that tar and, and drive those big trucks.
A:	And we just recently finished a long drive through the west, a little over five thousand miles,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and at one point we sat down, uh,
A:	I didn't realize it,
A:	but I sat at a counter to have a cup of coffee that happened to be for truck drivers only.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And here's this young girl with the tattoos
A:	and she has just, had just driven a load of meat from Minneapolis to some place in Arizona,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and she'd been,
A:	and I ask her how old she was
A:	and she was the between the age of our daughters
A:	and she had been driving, a truck for seven years.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And I thought, gosh,
B:	Yeah.
A:	I guess I'm I'm maybe Victorian
A:	in that, he's a very considerate person,
A:	but he also thinks a woman should be taken care of and, and in the home,
A:	and she should vote,
A:	but after she talks to her husband about how she ought to vote.
B:	Oh, boy <laughter>.
A:	Now it probably doesn't work that way in our household because I have strong opinions about things, too,
B:	Yeah.
A:	but, uh, I like being taken care of.
A:	I like my luggage, carried and, my door opened,
B:	Well,
A:	and I think the young women are losing that
A:	and I think that's sad.
B:	well, that, that's true.
B:	There is that part, too,
B:	and I guess we also have to examine though
B:	and although your husband's probably been as much conditioned as, you know, anybody else,
A:	He was raised in the south,
B:	um,
A:	I think that's a little condition,
B:	I guess ha-,
A:	both.
B:	Oh, oh, yeah.
B:	And, and you have to, I guess you have to question too, why a lot of the men, especially, I think middle age and older men, why they feel that way
B:	and, and I think it gets scary for them to see change, also.
B:	They've been used to being, really to be honest, in, in society, and in a way, number one,
B:	and they come home
B:	and everything's done for them.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Huh.
B:	And their meal is served
B:	and I think it's frightening to them to see the roles switching.
A:	Sure.
B:	And I think, I think this reaction comes more out of fear.
B:	Now, my husband is, um, he's ten years older than me,
B:	and,
B:	but he has, his attitudes are very much pro-women, pro-career, which is kind of interesting.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	He comes from a culture where women are, stay at home and do everything,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	um, and yet, um, he's the type that he is willing to have to take on more responsibility, um, if that meant, oor you know, for me to be able to, uh, uh, advance or go back to work or whatever.
B:	I'm kind of more,
B:	alking to someone in background, thank you, esumes talking to speaker A
B:	I'm kind of more middle of the road.
B:	there should be some, a lot more part time,
B:	but I think it's, um,
B:	I don't believe in this career, you know, this career drive when, when they're small, because I think,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	alking to someone in background, they're downstairs esumes talking to A
B:	I think that's very, um, unfair to, to children,
B:	like, uh, engineers usually work fifty or sixty hours a week,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Huh.
A:	Huh.
B:	I refused to work more than thirty.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I was part-time
B:	and even that was a rat race,
A:	Huh.
B:	but I think you have to put in perspective, that, you know, when the kids came home from school, I wanted to be here.
B:	I didn't want, I don't want a job where I'm traveling around and I'm away and, uh,
B:	so I think you can have both.
B:	It's more hectic,
B:	but I think you have to put into perspective what your kids need, first then
A:	I think a lot of, my problem with the young mothers ...
B:	Talk about the activities that we don't do
A:	Yeah.
A:	I, I don't have any children,
A:	so,
A:	but I, I have a lot of friends with children
A:	and I know they spend a lot of time with them.
A:	Which is good, you know.
B:	That's good to hear.
B:	Yeah,
B:	an, I haven't, uh,
B:	well I've been around a lot of people lately at at my job that don't have a lot of values
B:	So, it's, it's always nice to see people that like each other,
B:	and like families that get along with each other and like to do things together.
A:	Yeah,
A:	have a lot of values,
A:	I love that.
A:	Do they have children?
B:	Uh, the one, the most valueless girl doesn't,
B:	but she's married,
B:	and I, I'm not quite sure why.
B:	I, I think he said that he'd give her a big ring and she got married to him.
A:	Oh, that's wonderful
B:	But, it, it's kind of weighed on me
B:	and then the other day my husband and I met a couple who, who,
B:	they're just going to have their first child
B:	and they really like each other.
B:	And they're real happy with one another
B:	and she says things like, I'm really glad when he comes home
B:	and there's not enough time to spend with him in the evening
B:	and,
A:	Oh, that's neat.
B:	I'm like, really.
A:	That's good, you know,
A:	I like to see that.
B:	Yeah.
A:	You know, I have, uh, some friends that, uh,
A:	first of all, uh, the girls joined,
A:	they have two girls,
A:	one joined the Girl Scouts
A:	and the other was in the Brownies
A:	and then the mother got involved as a leader
A:	and then all of a sudden the father was getting involved with doing nature hikes for them and working with the Girl Scout camp here in Dallas and then going out to, uh, Betty Perot camp and working with the horses and stuff
A:	and they're gone a lot
A:	and they take their girls
A:	and they go away for weekends and in the winter time even, you know, to do work with the Girl Scouts
A:	and I think it's neat.
B:	Oh, yeah.
A:	You know, they've really become very much involved in, in just that one organization,
A:	which the organization can use the help too.
B:	Right.
A:	So, I, I wish I could see more of that, you know.
B:	On Sunday we just met, uh, a family,
B:	we were thinking about getting cat
B:	and we went over to, uh, lady that breeds them here in town
B:	and, uh, her daughter actually was,
B:	she said that her husband said to her daughter, you need a hobby,
B:	so, she chose the cats.
A:	Oh.
B:	And you can tell, it's a family hobby.
B:	they're all a part of it.
B:	And it was really neat because they all were interested in each other and, and the cats
B:	and they raise champion cats.
B:	So, they've done really well.
A:	Ugh,
A:	those are neat cats, too.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I've just learned about that breed.
A:	They're really nice looking cats.
A:	I have seven cats
B:	Well that's what we're going to end up getting
A:	Well they're the ones that need the homes.
B:	Oh, yeah.
A:	You know, mine were just all, uh, strays in the neighborhood.
A:	Little baby kittens dropped and stuff
A:	and it just kind of built.
A:	One at a time, just
A:	I couldn't, you know.
A:	One time two of them came at once
A:	and I can't turn a hungry cat down.
B:	Oh, I know.
A:	So, you know,
A:	and the last one that I was here, uh,
A:	the kids brought him over and said he was injured
A:	and it was winter time
A:	and I said, I just can not have another cat,
A:	I just can not have another cat
A:	and I looked out there
A:	and he was just laying on my lawn just shivering and all,
B:	Oh!
A:	and I said, I can't stand it,
A:	I brought him in so.
A:	Those are my children.
A:	We don't have very many activities
A:	but,
B:	No,
B:	I know what you mean,
B:	our cat hates other cats,
B:	and, we've tried to get her to like other cats
B:	and she just, uh, she wants to be around human beings
B:	and she does not want to be around other cats.
B:	So our next, uh,
B:	we're going to try it with a kitten and see if her maternal instincts come out.
A:	Ha, ha, lots of luck.
A:	Is she spayed.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Oh, yeah,
A:	real maternal
B:	We're hoping,
B:	it's our last hope
A:	She'll eventually,
A:	I mean, mine, you know, I have five males and two females.
A:	Everybody's spayed,
A:	everybody's neutered
A:	and we still have a scrap every now and then.
A:	Nothing real bad, you know,
A:	a slap here and there,
A:	but, uh, they put up with each other
A:	and they will eventually.
A:	her nose will be out of joint for a while
A:	but they'll, she'll finally accept it.
A:	You know, they really don't have any choice
B:	They
A:	In my household, we have a little bit, of, uh, a fight for whose boss.
A:	I mean a male cats are, are you know, real territorial
A:	and so that's the big battle here, you know,
A:	of whose, whose top dog, top cat, I guess.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	You know, but, uh,
A:	I I don't know,
A:	I don't have a problem with it.
A:	I think they just learn to accept.
A:	And I have two dogs too,
A:	and they've slapped the dogs around too
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah.
A:	Every now and then,
A:	so.
B:	That's true,
B:	they've got to keep them in line.
A:	Yeah
A:	but she'll accept another cat eventually.
A:	As long as you make her feel, uh, like she's still loved and everything,
A:	so.
B:	Yeah,
B:	well those cats were great.
B:	They were fourteen pounds and,
A:	And
B:	oh, they're just gorgeous,
B:	but, yeah,
B:	it,
B:	three hundred and fifty dollars for a kitten.
A:	Oh my gosh
B:	And I think of those,
B:	I think of the kittens at the pound.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Three hundred and fifty dollars hispers.
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah,
B:	and they are lovely
B:	but,
A:	till whispering Ugh,
A:	house payment
B:	Right.
A:	That is a lot of money.
B:	Yeah,
B:	and then she's saying, you know, you can't let them outside
B:	and you can't do all this stuff
B:	and I'm like, ugh, you know.
A:	I don't let mine out anyway,
A:	but.
A:	I let two of them out just in the back yard every now and then,
A:	but my cats are
A:	I'm afraid, you know, the neighbors will,
A:	people throw rocks at them,
A:	and people run over them
A:	and, I, I just, you know, I just don't.
A:	I know
A:	and, and now they've lost the desire.
A:	Most of them don't even try to you know, to go out.
A:	I just have two that drive me crazy, that I let out in the back, you know,
A:	but I won't let them get,
A:	if they start going in the front and stuff, I bring them in.
B:	Oh.
A:	You know, I just worry,
A:	I guess I'm too protective,
A:	but, you know.
A:	I see these cats that are wandering around the neighborhood
A:	and too they can catch diseases really easy,
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah.
A:	just by touching a nose to another cat they can leukemia, feline leukemia,
A:	so.
B:	Yeah.
A:	We know we try, try real hard to keep them healthy.
B:	Uh, we just bought, uh, acre, a house with an acre to try to, so she'll have some room to walk around, and not off of a busy street.
A:	Oh, how neat.
B:	We're, we're choosing our house for our cat.
B:	Isn't that bad
A:	People do it for their children
A:	I mean, why not.
B:	Oh, them too
A:	Well you know, why not,
A:	why not.
B:	because I, she loves, she's one of those that loves outside,
A:	Yeah.
B:	and, and she doesn't go far
B:	but she just wants to be able to have that freedom.
A:	Yeah,
A:	well if you're off, off, of a, you know, away from a road,
A:	and.
A:	You're off of the main road, you said?
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah.
A:	Away from a road, you know, and you keep an eye on her, it's probably okay.
A:	I'm just real,
A:	I don't know, I guess,
A:	I'm in a neighborhood
A:	and it's, it's just real tough on animals here, you know.
B:	Yeah,
B:	it gets hard, especially with the cars.
A:	I, every time I see one run over I just, you know,
A:	it makes me sick,
A:	so, you know,
B:	Oh, I know.
A:	but anyway, we kind of got off the subject of children,
B:	Yeah.
A:	except that I consider them my children
B:	Yeah,
B:	our cats are our kids
B:	or,
A:	Yeah.
B:	I, we, we got married a few months ago
B:	and I'm like, well why can't Ashley be at the wedding
A:	Oh, no.
A:	In, in her little bridesmaid dress
B:	Yeah,
B:	you know, if I could have, I would have.
A:	Well I'm sure it's been done.
A:	I'm sure it has been done.
A:	Well they have weddings for dogs now and cats
A:	and,
B:	Oh.
A:	you know, they have all that parties for them where they dress up.
A:	I've seen it in magazines and stuff where you dress your animals up and take them to a
B:	Oh, my.
A:	I haven't gone that far.
A:	I'm not that bonkers.
B:	No
A:	You know, my cats do not wear clothes,
A:	an
B:	I, I don't think they'd like to.
A:	No.
B:	I put a bow on her one one day
B:	and Jerry just kept saying you are the meanest person
B:	I took a picture of her
B:	and that was all it, all it lasted for.
A:	do any of your friends have, have, uh, older children that they do anything with.
A:	Do, do you have friends with older children,
A:	or do they just all have young kids.
B:	Um, yeah,
B:	all the ones I know,
B:	my brother-in-law has three young kids seven and on down
B:	and they, they go on family vacations
B:	and, uh, they go, like to go skiing,
B:	the, the middle girl doesn't get a whole lot of attention,
B:	but, uh, this last ski trip they took, uh, she had contracted chicken pox first
B:	and then she spread it to her, her younger sister and her brother
B:	and they got it just at the beginning of the vacation, where she got better.
B:	So, not only is she the better skier, but she got all the attention, because she got to go out.
B:	I think she planned it.
B:	She's only five,
B:	but I think she planned it
B:	And she got all the attention from her dad.
A:	Oh, see there,
A:	she needed that, didn't she.
B:	oh yeah.
A:	You know, it must be hard when you have a lot of children,
A:	I, you know, to I was an only child,
A:	my mother was an only child
A:	so, I, you know, I wasn't raised with brothers or sisters
A:	and I always got all the attention,
A:	so I wouldn't know.
A:	I think I would be extremely jealous, or would have been, had there been another child in the family.
B:	Yeah,
B:	it's, it's, we can see it work with her,
A:	Tough,
A:	it must be tough.
B:	she's frustrated.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah.
A:	she, she's the middle one?
B:	Yeah.
A:	So she's never been the only one,
A:	so she really doesn't even know what it is to be the only one.
B:	Right.
A:	Yeah,
A:	that's tough, you know ...
A:	So, what do you,
A:	what's your opinion on the, our policy down there?
B:	I don't think we have one.
A:	I didn't know we had one either
B:	Yeah.
B:	I was going to say it's kind of hard to have, have an opinion.
B:	We seem to, uh,
B:	whoever screams the loudest or whoever we happen to give the most money to at that particular time we seem to support, without,  regard whether it's a democracy or a anarchy, or anything else.
A:	Yeah.
A:	I don't,
A:	Yeah
A:	The only thing that I pretty much know about is the Central American policy where, you know, they're just trying to, you know,
A:	military action in Panama is the only thing that comes to my mind right now,
B:	Well, uh,
A:	and then,
B:	yeah.
B:	And then, of course, there was, there was the, uh, in Columbia, with the drug lords.
A:	Right.
B:	But we just talked a lot.
B:	We didn't actually do anything.
A:	Right.
A:	Well, that's, that's what I was about to say.
A:	We didn't do anything.
B:	I'm actually surprised at anything in Central America, along with Panama.
B:	I'm just kind of surprised we did that.
A:	Yeah,
B:	But, uh,
A:	that is, that is pretty, uh, risky.
A:	I, mean,
B:	Especially, after our friend Jimmy Carter gave it away anyway.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But I guess they had to finally do something.
B:	Actually Bush has been better at that than I thought.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	He has a little more a little more of a stand on policy than I thought he would.
B:	I always considered him kind of a wimp.
A:	He takes more risks.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
A:	He was.
B:	But, but I guess most of the policy that we're using now is, uh, a combination of Reagan and Carter, much as, you know, policy makers.
A:	Yeah.
A:	It seems that the, the policies of pretty much anywhere, not just in Central America, that U S has now is, is, you know, more action than just words, than just rhetoric.
A:	But, you know, we, we back up what we what we say with actions.
B:	Uh, yeah.
B:	We have so far,
B:	but we,  really haven't,
A:	I don't know, how long it's going to last.
B:	Of course, we really haven't taken on the drug lords, yet.
A:	Yeah.
B:	I'd be interested to see if we do that.
A:	Well, I don't think it's possible because, even though, you know, we're against them, I don't think we can go into another country and do something about the other country's problem.
B:	Well, we did in Panama.
B:	We did in,  Saudi Arabia.
A:	Yeah.
A:	But,
A:	no,
A:	but see the thing when Panama was, uh, the, that, uh, Noriega was, uh, was, was, uh, was wanted either the F B I, by the F B I,
A:	and therefore, they had a reason
A:	But, to go in and take out the whole drug kingdom would be something totally different because,
B:	It could be an interesting, interesting problem.
A:	Right.
B:	I don't know if they could do it or not.
B:	Did you read Tom Clancy's A CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER?
A:	Uh, no.
A:	I didn't.
B:	I think you need to pick that up and read it.
B:	It's quite, uh, it's, it's quite interesting.
B:	It addresses the problem.
A:	Oh, the drug problem?
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Actually, he, he wrote that prior to the, uh, Medellin Cartel being exposed.
B:	It was on the stands prior to that time.
B:	It, it's quite timely.
B:	And either he knows somebody
B:	or he has a real good, a real good imagination
B:	because its, it hits pretty close to home.
A:	Yeah.
B:	But I don't think we're going to have much of a choice in either Central or South America.
A:	I don't think, uh, I don't think, the, the, uh, problem about drugs is going to be safe any time soon.
A:	I mean, you know, it, I think it pretty much got sidetracked with, uh, with the Panama and, and with the Middle East problems.
A:	Things that, that are important take precedent, precedence over the drugs, I think.
A:	I think, I think the big thing is trying to stop here on the home front
A:	And
A:	you know, it, it'll take a little bit of time before they'll realize that this is failing,
A:	so they're going to have to go to the source.
B:	Um, yeah.
B:	I think we realize it's failed.
B:	We just don't, we just don't,
B:	nobody,  wants to make the, nobody wants to make the unpopular decision of going in and invading,
A:	Don't want to admit it yet.
A:	Right.
B:	We still, there's still there's still too many Kennedys and and all up there.
A:	Yep ause.
A:	Yeah.
A:	That's true.
B:	There's too many liberals in control.
B:	They can't agree on anything.
B:	And they have blinders on as far as the policy goes.
B:	As long as somebody's getting killed, as long as nobody knows about it it's okay.
B:	But, but the minute it hit, hits the paper then, of course, the Kennedys and the and the and the, and, uh, the from Georgia, all stand up and scream and yell about what a horrible thing it is.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Of course, these are the same people that also drown the Chappaquiddic, and stuff like that, you know.
A:	Huh.
B:	But I guess it
B:	I guess it's automatic respective.
A:	Depends on how much power you have,  and who you know.
B:	Yeah.
B:	You know,  the people have a right to know except about what it, about what concerns them.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And these are the people that make the foreign policy
B:	and it, it's probably basically, uh,
B:	I would not be surprised if the Kennedy Foundation or some of those don't have a lot of, uh, financial holdings in, in Central and South America.
A:	Probably.
B:	Considering the Kennedys made all their money off bootleg whiskey anyway.
A:	Huh.
B:	Every time you drink Scotch, you're paying Kennedys.
A:	I don't drink Scotch.
B:	Good.
B:	Don't ever drink Scotch,
B:	it's terrible.
B:	I quit drinking Scotch when I found out about that,
B:	but, anyway.
B:	But, uh, as far as, as far as, you know, Central and South America, we, our policy pretty much, uh, it depends on who we're, what government we're buying down there at the particular time.
A:	Yeah.
A:	I,  think we're trying to stay, uh, stay friendly with uh, the, uh, the Brazilian and, and Argentinean governments because they're producing so much, uh, agricultural exports.
B:	We,
B:	Yeah.
B:	Although we do need to do something about, you know,
B:	of course, in Nicaragua and around there with the Sandinistas and the Contras, that's been going on for years.
B:	But then, hell, it's probably still be going on long after we're dead.
B:	It'll still be the same thing.
B:	Those people down there don't really,
B:	I mean,
A:	I think it's going to have to get worse before it gets better,
A:	you know,  the same old cliche.
B:	Well, I think basically,  they can't figure out what they want down there.
A:	Right.
B:	If you give everybody what they wanted there is a complete democracy, those people wouldn't know how to react because they have no education.
A:	Right.
A:	And they'll just pick crooked people again.
A:	And then people, the, the wrong people will just fight their way up to the top again,
A:	and it'll all,  be for nothing.
B:	It's all tradition.
B:	It's all traditional.
B:	They have to,
B:	you have the ruling class
B:	and you have everybody else.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Well, I guess that's about five minutes.
A:	Appreciate talking,  to you.
B:	was very pleasant)).
B:	All righty.
B:	Good,  talking to you.
A:	Hey, what was that book,
A:	what was that book that you were saying to read, again?
B:	Tom, Clancy.
B:	It's called A CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER.
A:	A CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	He he's the one who wrote, uh, RED OCTOBER, A HUNT FOR RED OCTOBER.
A:	Okay.
A:	All right.
B:	And I think if you read that, I think you'll get a real kick out of it.
A:	All right.
A:	Thanks a lot.
B:	All righty.
A:	Bye-bye.
B:	Bye.
A:	Um,
B:	Hi
A:	one thing you know that I always think about when I think of public education
A:	cause I went through the public, um, school system of Boston,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and, uh, I always felt that I graduated high school
A:	and I still didn't even I, I couldn't put together a map of the United State.
B:	Um.
A:	You know what I mean.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	An yet I felt that I got a good education
A:	and I, I did well in school
A:	but you tell me to name, you know, five continents
A:	an I, couldn't do it.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I just felt like there were some real basics that are missing from education,
B:	Uh.
A:	and the people are, are leaving school not even knowing some common sense things.
B:	Yeah.
B:	One,
B:	well, talking about public education, um, I'm, we're doing a proposal,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	it's, we're doing it at N C State,
A:	Yeah.
B:	we're trying to improve the computer science curriculum,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So that's kind of in a higher level
A:	Right.
B:	So it's interesting that you chose that topic
A:	Yeah,
A:	um, did you do through a public school system or private?
B:	Yeah,
B:	well, I went through private an until ninth grade.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	did you notice a big difference?
B:	Oh, yeah,
B:	a big difference.
A:	Like in what sense?
B:	Well, um, in, uh, public schools I guess there there are a lot of, of, you know,
B:	people can take lower level courses an get away with learning nothing.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But, um, private school you couldn't do that,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	you had to learn.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I work in a temporary agency
A:	an they're people that come in, you know, every day to fill out an application,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and they'll have to bring somebody with them,
A:	and they will show that they completed, um, four year of high school,
A:	yet when it comes to even answering the questions on a simple application, they can't read enough to be able to fill out the answers by themselves,
B:	Uh.
B:	That's bad.
A:	it's just incredible.
B:	Yeah,
B:	our State cut a whole bunch of a, I think it's ten million dollars out of the school budget.
A:	Really.
B:	So they're making all kind of cuts
B:	in college people cannot, I mean, the teachers can't make tests any more,
B:	and the library canceling all of it's subscriptions.
A:	Yeah.
B:	It's pretty sorry.
A:	I know,
A:	um, they, uh,
A:	I forget
A:	I think it's, um, some place in New York because they're having budget problems, they're closing the libraries.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I mean they're not getting rid of any of the sports, or anything like that,
B:	Uh.
A:	they're not cutting in any other corner
A:	they're closing the libraries.
A:	That to me shows a little, uh, switch in priorities.
B:	Yeah.
A:	You know.
A:	So do you go to college right now?
A:	Are
B:	Yeah,
B:	it's my last year
A:	You're a, so you're a senior now.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I'm working on my projects trying to graduate
A:	Oh, good for you.
B:	Yeah.
A:	That's great,
A:	um, is, is N C University is that, uh, State,
B:	N C State.
A:	What did you say?
B:	N C State.
A:	N C State,
A:	that's a State University then.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I see.
A:	And you're from there also?
B:	Well, yeah,
B:	I was, uh, I was born in
B:	and then I lived in most of my life.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	I see.
B:	And now I'm back here going to school.
A:	Well, pretty soon it's going to get to the point where no one is going to be able to afford to send their kids to college or to do go to college.
B:	Yeah.
A:	It's just a outrageously expensive.
B:	Luckily state is one of the cheap ones.
A:	Oh is it.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Well, still though
A:	I mean, you know, thousands of dollars,
B:	Yeah, state's not that bad
A:	Oh, well, that's good.
B:	Yeah.
A:	That's good.
A:	I went to a private university
A:	and, um, I don't know
A:	I look back now
A:	and I, I think that I probably would have done it differently if I, um, you know, could do it over again.
B:	Yeah.
A:	But, um, I have a lot of friends that went to state schools or didn't even go to school, some, some of them,
A:	and I still feel like they came out knowing just as much as I did.
A:	I really do
A:	and that's probably a pretty sad thing to say
A:	but, um,
B:	Yeah,
A:	I don't know,
A:	I, I
B:	Where did you go?
A:	what?
B:	Where did you go?
A:	I went to University.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	It's in Massachusetts.
A:	And, um, I really felt like I've been working now for about four years,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and I, I feel like what I've learned working is a hundred times more valuable then what learned in school.
B:	Oh.
A:	And I know that I'm drawing a lot of what I learned in school, you know,
A:	I, I probably just subconsciously rely a lot on, on art.
A:	But, um, I don't know
A:	my sister's a principal at a school,
A:	and one thing she's trying to instill in kids, um, besides just reading and writing are just some, the golden rules,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	she calls them just some basics about, um, you know, you don't take what's not yours,
A:	uh, and if you want to, you know, you don't touch anybody else unless you have their permission.
A:	Like no hitting, you know,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	no pulling hair or anything like that,
A:	and, uh, the school that she's in is a, um, it's basically for minorities,
A:	um, there's a large minority population.
A:	And, um, she's really noticed that even some of the teachers that work there
A:	I think they don't value that type of student as much as you get, in some.
B:	Yeah
B:	that's, sorry.
B:	That they, that they like pick on the advanced students and pay more attention to them, ignore the others.
A:	Yeah,
A:	it's true.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And I don't know if it makes them feel better
A:	I mean the do teachers get,
A:	I mean personally I would get more satisfaction out of taking someone that wasn't as successful.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And seeing what they could do verses somebody that did excel in, in areas and just watching them get better, you know.
B:	Yeah.
A:	That's not much of a challenge.
B:	That's true.
A:	But do you have any ideal what you're going into when you graduate.
B:	Um, graduate school
A:	Oh yeah.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Do you know where you're going?
B:	I think I'm going to Chappel Hill.
A:	Where's that?
B:	That's in Chappel Hill
B:	the
A:	Oh is that North Carolina?
B:	Yeah.
A:	Oh, okay.
B:	Never heard of the, uh, Tarheels?
A:	No,
A:	I don't know that area.
B:	The A C C Tarheels, U N C?
A:	I know it.
B:	Oh, uh,
A:	I don't get down there very often.
B:	They won the final four, in boy's basket ball.
A:	Oh, really,
A:	well the way I pick the final four was, um, by the state that had the warmest climate.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	So that's how I chose all mine,
A:	so you can tell that I really didn't have that much to do with any of it.
A:	But,
A:	so obviously you're into education.
B:	Yeah.
A:	If you can be going,
A:	my husband went to, is in graduate school actually right now.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh,
A:	I don't know
A:	I give you a lot of credit.
A:	I couldn't do it,
A:	I, I couldn't wait to graduate and have, it be all over.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I know.
B:	Oh.
B:	I can't wait to graduate either, now.
A:	I know.
B:	I've got all of this stuff due
B:	oh wow.
B:	Overloaded.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I kind of know what you mean.
A:	Well, it was really nice talking to you.
B:	All right.
A:	Okay.
A:	Good luck.
B:	All right,
B:	thank you.
A:	All righty,
A:	take care.
B:	All right,
B:	bye.
A:	Bye-bye.
B:	Clanking ishes oman and children
A:	Well, as much as I'd, uh, I'd like to say that I'll be looking for a flashy convertible or, uh, or a four by four or something,
A:	I guess the next car I'll be looking for is a kind of a plain old four door
B:	What kind of a car do you have now?
A:	Oh, we've got a, uh, an older Delta Eighty-Eight,
A:	and then, uh, our, our newer car is a, uh, a Corsica.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And we'll probably be looking for something about that, uh, that same style.
B:	Yeah.
A:	That same kind of four door, hard top style.
B:	You got kids?
A:	Uh, no
A:	but we're planning for it.
B:	Okay.
A:	So, uh, in fact, uh, our Oldsmobile is a, is a like an old Delta Eighty-Eight
A:	but it's in pretty good in really good shape.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And we've been really pleased with Oldsmobiles.
B:	Yeah.
A:	So that's probably where the first place we'd look.
B:	Huh.
A:	But, uh,
B:	Well, we've always had, uh, Fords.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh, mostly because my wife's stepfather works at a Ford dealership
A:	That'll do it.
B:	Yeah.
B:	That'll do it.
B:	Um, but, yeah, we're, we're in the same shape.
B:	I think our next car will be a, you know, some big old four door, uh, something that can haul the kids to baseball practice and piano lessons,
A:	Yeah.
B:	and we've got a minivan,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and that's great.
B:	And I drive, uh,
B:	well I used to drive an Escort,
B:	but it died on me.
B:	So I, I mean I, I, I used to run it, I, uh, where we used to live, I used to commute a hundred and forty miles a day.
A:	Oh, geez.
B:	And, uh, and this Escort took it all.
B:	And it, it, it got up to, uh, uh, I was at ninety-four thousand miles on it,
B:	and the engine just went.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So I, I, I bought a used, uh, Dodge Aries, which has been okay.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Really?
B:	I, I mean I've haven't had it that long.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But it, it it's an eighty-five Aries,
B:	but it only had thirty-four thousand miles on it when I bought it.
A:	Oh, geez.
B:	And I just, you know, I just drive it to work.
B:	So it's just a ten minute commute every day.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So, uh, it doesn't get much of, uh,
B:	I mean, it's not like I'm putting it through its paces.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah.
B:	But I think, uh,
B:	and it's a four door which is nice,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but it's still a little cramped.
B:	I've got three kids,
A:	Yeah.
B:	so I, I,
A:	Sounds like you, you need at least like a Taurus size, or something like that.
B:	Yeah,
B:	that's what, I was thinking of,
B:	was a Taurus.
B:	Uh,
A:	Yeah.
A:	I, I know a lot of guys at work,
A:	they, uh, the ones that have, uh, families, uh,
A:	and they still want kind of a sports car.
A:	They've been, uh, a lot of them have been getting these Taurus S H O's.
A:	That I guess it's the sports version of the Taurus?
B:	Oh, really?
B:	Yeah
A:	In fact, it comes with a standard stick
A:	and, uh, and a lot of those.
B:	Ooh.
A:	And it comes with a bigger engine and the things like that.
A:	But, uh,
B:	Yeah.
A:	and usually they're in like black, and gun metal grey and those kind of colors.
A:	You're not going to see too many, uh, you know, green ones or blue ones or anything like that.
B:	Yeah.
A:	They, they put them in sporty colors I guess.
A:	But, uh,
B:	Yeah.
B:	Well, my wife wants a Miyata.
A:	Oh, well sure
A:	That's what, you know,
A:	until, until you look at the price tag
A:	and then you go, What?
B:	Right.
A:	What would I, besides tooling around and looking really cool and having a lot of fun, what would I really do with this car?
B:	Right,
B:	yeah.
B:	I know,
B:	I know.
B:	It's like I, I guess I could fit in it maybe
A:	Yeah.
A:	I, I went, I went through that when I first got out of, uh, college.
A:	I had an old car that I bought just to get to, to my my first job.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And when I got there, the first thing I did was trade it in on a Spitfire.
B:	Oh.
A:	And I, I knew that was going to be the only time I could afford a two seater, uh, sports car.
B:	Yeah.
A:	But that, that just does not make it as an only car.
A:	It's, uh, it's like I, I would,
A:	I bought a set of stereo speakers
B:	Yeah.
A:	and it was one of those cash and carry deals.
A:	I had to take them one at a time, with the top down.
A:	And it was winter, so I was in like this coat with the top down,
B:	Oh, no!
A:	and the speaker in the passenger seat.
B:	Yeah
A:	And I drove that one home,
A:	and then I went back and got the other one and put that in the, passenger seat and drove that one home.
A:	And, uh, funny, funniest sight.
A:	And you kind of outgrow that real quick when it's your only car.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Well, I,
B:	you know, it's funny.
B:	Most people that I've talked to did stuff like that when they were in college, or, you know, or when they were single anyway.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
B:	They'd, they'd buy themselves a sporty car because it was their last.
B:	I never did that.
B:	Uh, you know, my first car was a Toyota Corolla.
A:	Oh, really?
B:	And, uh, because I got a good deal on it
A:	Yeah.
B:	and, uh, that was a great little car.
B:	Actually I met,
B:	I, I'd learned on an automatic transmission. And so, so I'd go out on dates where they would teach me how to drive this car.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Boy, that's a good deal.
B:	And, uh, in fact I married one of those people
A:	Ah, okay.
A:	Well, I'll have to remember that if I ever get in that situation again
B:	And it worked.
B:	Yeah,
B:	it worked all right, real good.
A:	Huh.
A:	Because I, I know we've, uh,
A:	that's, that's something that, that we definitely have to go with is an automatic transmission.
A:	she really doesn't want to learn I guess, the, uh, the standard shift.
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah.
A:	I fact, I, I remember once we, uh, we, uh, went, uh, went on a, uh, test drive.
A:	We got one of these things from Lee Iacocca that said, you know, I'll give you a fifty dollar savings bond if you'll test drive a car.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And we went, uh, we went, uh, we went to a dealership
A:	and, uh, it, it was she, she did pretty well.
A:	But it was one of those things where we just went to a big parking lot
B:	Yeah
A:	and the, uh, dealer kind of gave her standard shift parking,
A:	because that was all it was.
A:	It was, it was the funniest thing,
A:	it was like, uh, a big Le Baron,
A:	it was a Le Baron with everything on it,
B:	Wow!
A:	but it had a standard shift.
A:	It was the craziest thing I ever saw.
B:	That's weird!
B:	Yeah.
A:	And, and, and that's probably why they were trying to sell them, I guess.
B:	Huh.
A:	And, uh, we just kind of went back and forth and back and forth.
A:	She did pretty well after a while.
B:	Yeah.
A:	But, uh, it's just kind of hard to learn, I guess.
B:	Well, my wife,
B:	I mean, she'd always driven standard transmission.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, uh, and,
B:	in fact all our earlier cars were a standard transmission.
B:	In fact, the minivan's a, has a stick shift.
A:	Um, okay.
B:	And in,
B:	this Dodge Aries is the first car we've ever gotten that had anything.
B:	You know, it's got automatic transmission, cruise control, you know, electric locks.
A:	Oh, geez.
B:	You know, it's like, it's like a luxury car except that it's the Dodge Aries you know.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah.
B:	So, uh,
A:	Oh, well.
A:	Well, I guess that's, I guess that's about all I've got to say, about cars
B:	Well, you, um,
B:	the, the thing about this, uh,
B:	I will say this about the minivan.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	We thought that was a luxury car when we bought it.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	I would think so,
A:	yeah,
B:	It, it,
A:	because it's so big.
B:	Yeah.
B:	And, and it was quiet,
B:	it had a stereo system.
A:	Oh, yeah.
B:	We never had it, you know,
B:	we always had the A M radio.
A:	Sure,
A:	sure.
B:	And, uh, of course this has, this that had speakers that you can control from the back seat.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And you can change the channels on the, on the radio from the back seat too
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And put speaker phones in it.
B:	So.
A:	Now, now, now that used to be a luxury,
A:	but I bet on the next time you buy a car, that's going to be mandatory.
B:	Right.
A:	You've got to have that now.
B:	That's right.
B:	That's right.
A:	You're used to it
A:	and you got to have it.
B:	And you've got to pay for it too.
A:	Yeah.
A:	That's true too.
B:	And I bet, and I bet it costs twice as much as, as when I bought mine
A:	It, It probably does,
A:	it probably does.
A:	But, uh,
B:	We,
A:	Oh, well.
A:	Well, Bill it's been nice talking to you.
B:	Nice talking to you.
A:	Okay,
A:	you have a good evening.
B:	Thanks a lot.
A:	Um.
A:	Bye-bye.
B:	Bye-bye
A:	What kind,
B:	What kind of cars do you, do you usually drive?
A:	Right now we, I've got a, uh, four year old Subaru and a two year old Honda.
B:	Oh, my goodness.
B:	Well, we're, we're, we're sort of, sort of a General Motors family,
B:	I guess that's the way we were raised.
B:	And, uh, uh, we were overseas with T I for a number of years
B:	and when we came back we suddenly find out we've got five licensed drivers in the family.
A:	Oh, goodness.
B:	Yeah,
B:	and four cars
B:	and we bought some year old cars from National Car Rental.
A:	Really?
B:	At least two of them.
B:	We bought an Olds Calais and a Buick Skylark.
B:	Uh, for, you know,
B:	they each had twenty-one thousand miles or something like that.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Turns out that's a pretty good place to buy cars because they maintain them
B:	and they can show you the records they've gotten all their maintenance on schedule and everything like that.
B:	Uh, then we've got an eighty-six Chevy Spectrum that we bought new.
B:	My daughter was a freshman in college when we bought it for her.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And we've got a eighty-four Toyota that we bought used.
B:	So we've got four cars for our five licensed drivers.
B:	It's like musical chairs
A:	I bet.
A:	I bet.
B:	And, uh,
B:	but you know, it's interesting the two,
B:	even though my dad was a Chevrolet man forever and ever and ever
B:	and we were in the retail milk business
B:	and he had all Chevrolet milk trucks
B:	and, and we bought automobiles and all that,
B:	it was almost like
B:	and a Chevrolet dealer was our friend
B:	and it was almost like the minute we got old and bought anything like a, but a Chevrolet it would be like going and spitting on his grave
B:	But, uh,
A:	Yep.
B:	as we got older and got away,
B:	and then we thought, well, you know, you still could buy General Motors products
B:	and it was probably not that bad.
B:	But, uh, we lived in Malaysia for T I in nineteen, uh, eighty-one, two, three, and four.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, and, of course you don't buy General Motors products over there
A:	No.
B:	But we bought a Volvo
B:	and I have never had a car that I've loved more.
B:	I just can't afford them here.
B:	Uh, but I, I just loved that car.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, uh, we bought a, uh,
B:	we lived in the Philippines for T I in eighty-five, eighty-six, and eighty-seven
B:	and we bought a, uh, Ford Telstar,
B:	which is somewhat similar to the Taurus.
B:	It's sold in, uh, in uh, the Far Eastern uh, Far East countries more than here.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But we really liked that.
B:	And have you had experience with cars other than the ones you have?
A:	Well, yeah
A:	we had, uh, we had,
A:	these are the first cars that my husband and I have ever purchased ourselves.
B:	Um.
A:	The others were hand me downs through the families.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And those were always G M cars.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Uh, Buicks and Chevrolets.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, we were real happy with them,
A:	but all the ones that we ever had were the, you know, eight cylinder,
B:	Oh, yeah.
A:	really rugged, G M cars.
B:	The the big,
B:	Yeah.
A:	And all we had heard was, was a lot of negative press about the smaller cars,
A:	and we both drive, well, forty-five miles round trip every day.
B:	Sure,
B:	sure.
A:	And so we wanted a smaller car,
B:	Yeah.
A:	when we got ready to buy, we needed a smaller car to get better gas mileage
A:	and quite frankly, we were afraid of the, of the G M small cars.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	uh-huh.
A:	You know, as far as durability.
B:	Right.
A:	So we kind of,
A:	when we had our larger cars, we didn't mind, uh, keeping them up,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	you know, doing the maintenance and everything on them as long as we didn't have to do it very often.
B:	Yeah.
A:	But, once they got over a hundred thousand miles on them, all of them, you know,
A:	it just kind of seemed to be the magic number for them
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah,
B:	it seems that something goes every month.
A:	Yeah
A:	it,
B:	And I'm afraid we're going to be in that in another year with all of ours,
B:	you know,
B:	we got three eighty-sixes and an eighty-four
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And we'll probably be there with all of them.
B:	You know, it's the same thing, you know,
B:	I don't know whether, uh, you classify the Skylark and the Calais as,
B:	well I guess they're intermediate.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh, but, uh, we went on a family trip to Massachusetts
B:	and there were five of us
B:	and five, five of us never go anywhere together here.
B:	everybody's heading off in their own direction.
A:	Right.
B:	And I rented a Buick Le Sabre,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and it's the first big car I had since I had my nine passenger Impala station wagon from seventy-six to eighty.
B:	And it made all the,
B:	I, I had forgotten what driving a big car was like.
A:	It's like a yacht.
B:	It was just nice.
B:	It floated.
A:	Yeah.
A:	What,
A:	we, we sold or we, we traded in our Le Sabre for our Subaru.
B:	Oh, yeah.
A:	Yeah,
A:	it was a great car.
B:	Yeah.
A:	It just,
A:	we ran the wheels right off of it.
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah,
B:	yeah.
B:	And, uh, you know I've read,
B:	I'm in the quality business at T I,
B:	I'm a quality manager
B:	and we're, we're uh, we deal,
B:	we sell,
B:	I'm in the semiconductor group
B:	and we sell to, uh, Ford, Chrysler and G M, uh, G M Delco.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And there is a, amazing,
B:	I am just, uh, really impressed with the, with the quality consciousness that the, these companies have put into their procurement
B:	and it's, I, it's come out as a result of the competition from the Japanese.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, uh, uh, I
B:	and, you know, we used to think Ford products were tinny.
B:	I mean I was growing up,
B:	I was taught when I was growing up, you know, that, that that real people bought General Motors products,
B:	and peons bought, Ford products.
A:	That's right.
B:	But just with the quality requirements that Ford is putting on us and the way they come into our plants
B:	and they're really, uh, uh, stressing this partnerships in quality,
B:	and you know, G M and Chrysler are doing that,
B:	but I really think Ford's got a ship position in this right now.
B:	And I think it's showing up in their automobiles.
B:	Their automobiles are getting a very good quality reputation right now.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, uh, uh, we went to, uh, Austin a while back to a basketball tournament
B:	and we were going to be meeting some of my wife's relatives down there,
B:	so we decided rather than drive one of our cars down, we'd rent one,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and we went up to the local Budget
B:	and we were going to get a Olds eighty-eight or something.
B:	He said I'll tell you what, for a dollar a day more I'll give you a Lincoln Town Car.
A:	Um.
B:	And we drove that down
B:	and I hated to turn that back in.
A:	I bet
B:	We had that for three days.
B:	And I absolutely loved,
B:	except I couldn't want to have to park it in tight places all the time.
A:	No.
B:	Uh,
A:	I wouldn't want to have to pay for the gas, either.
B:	but I absolutely loved that automobile.
B:	And, you know, it wasn't that I'd,
B:	driving around down there we might have got sixteen to eighteen miles per gallon,
B:	but on the trip down and back I filled up both coming and going
B:	so I knew what I actually got on the trip
B:	and it was about twenty-four miles a gallon.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh, and, you know, we just got it out on the highway and put it in cruise control at about sixty and let it, let it float.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, it was pretty nice.
B:	Are, are, are you planning on getting any additional or other cars?
A:	No time soon.
A:	Uh, we're, our, our, we won't have any more licensed drivers for about thirteen years.
B:	Um.
B:	Oh, yours is small.
A:	Yes.
A:	So, we, uh, so we don't plan on purchasing any more any time soon.
A:	Both of our cars are getting, oh, around sixty thousand miles on them.
B:	Um.
B:	Oh, yeah.
A:	We drive a lot.
B:	Yeah.
B:	You got another, another thirty or forty thousand if you maintain them.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh, we've got,
B:	probably we'll get something in the next couple years.
B:	My son will graduate from high school this year,
B:	and, and he's going to go to Richland College one year behind us,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	it's right,
B:	in fact, uh, our house is adjacent to the Richland property.
B:	He wants to go to Texas Tech
B:	and he's probably going to have to go to Richland a year to get some grades in order,
B:	but, uh, the next year when he goes out to Tech, he wants a pickup,
B:	and I want, a pickup.
A:	A pickup aint.
B:	I may get one and not let him have it
B:	But, we have been looking at these red
B:	they, they're very popular around here.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	These, uh, uh, red Chevy pickups,
B:	and, uh, we'll probably do something like that,
B:	uh, uh, incidentally,
B:	uh, uh, I don't know,
B:	uh, the, uh, the Credit Union has got a deal now where you decide what you want
B:	and you call this number
B:	and, uh, they go negotiate the price for you.
B:	And, and, or, or send you to a guy with whom they've already got a deal
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, uh, my boss just bought a Chevy pickup
B:	and he got three thousand dollars off the sticker price doing it this way.
A:	Really?
B:	Yeah.
B:	And, uh, uh, you know, you, you figure out the options, go around look at the dealers and get the best price you can and then go call this guy and, and tell him what you want
B:	and he'll put you in touch with a certain guy, a certain person at that dealer's place.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So I'm going to try that the next time I buy one.
A:	I think that would be a good idea.
B:	And, and, so, you know, I can go around and comparison shop and see if I can get a better negotiation on my own.
B:	But, once, one thing that's a pain in the neck buying automobiles is negotiating.
A:	Yeah.
A:	I've, we've, we've, we've kind of been the types that will say, this is what we intend to spend,
B:	Yeah.
A:	this is the car we want,
A:	will you sell me this car for that price.
B:	And for that price.
A:	And, and we've had
A:	we, with our,
A:	when we bought our Subaru, the guy was like, you can't do this to me,
A:	and we're were just, like, okay fine, we, we won't then.
B:	We'll go somewhere else.
B:	Yeah.
A:	You know.
A:	I mean he's like, no, no, no.
B:	Yeah.
A:	But,
B:	And, uh, and I, I think that's probably the way you've got to do it.
B:	When, when I was young, I went in and bought a, uh, or made a deal on a sixty,
B:	this is nineteen sixty,
B:	I'd first come to Texas, and made a deal on a sixty red Impala convertible that I just loved,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and this guy gave me this deal, you know,
B:	I told him how much I wanted to pay,
B:	and for every fifty dollars he'd have to go in and check with the boss
B:	and then I'd have to sign something saying that if he could get this rate, uh, we would go ahead and buy.
B:	Uh, uh, if he could get this rate I promised to buy
B:	and I left there on a Saturday afternoon just totally exhausted.
B:	I, I was only twenty-five years old or something
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I, I left there
B:	and I, I, uh, I'd never done this before because I'd always bought my previous cars from the guy my dad bought his milk trucks from,
B:	and, uh, uh, so I, I got back
B:	and a salesman that lived in the apartment had, asked me, uh, uh, if,
B:	he'd heard I was going to get a car, and asked me what I paid for it.
B:	He said, well, hey, uh, before you go buying anything,
B:	he says call this friend of mine at Will's Point.
B:	There was a guy that owned a Chevrolet dealership up there.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And I called the guy and made an appointment to come up Monday morning
B:	and just driving fifty miles out of town, it was a difference,
B:	and, I mean it was a difference of four hundred dollars,
B:	but this was four hundred dollars on only twenty-five hundred,
A:	Goodness.
B:	is all we paid for cars in those days.
B:	And, uh, uh, so I called back the guy in Dallas
B:	and I told him that,
B:	I'd left him a check for tax, title and license and everything,
B:	and I said I want to cancel my order and, and don't try to cash the check because I'm going to, I've stopped payment on it already
B:	and he says oh, somebody's taking,
B:	he said what did you get a deal for, Bill.
B:	And I told him,
B:	he says, somebody's taking you for a ride.
B:	And I said, no somebody took me for a ride last Saturday
A:	That's right.
B:	And, uh, uh, and I, I find that, uh,
B:	and for the longest time then I drove up to Will's Point
B:	and, and the, and the fellow died since then,
B:	and, and some of his relatives have taken over the business
B:	and that,
B:	but
B:	and, since then I had ...
B:	Okay,
B:	well yes,
B:	we do have pollution in Houston
B:	and it,
A:	How bad is it?
A:	Do you have smog like they do in California?
B:	Well it, it
B:	some,
B:	I think it depends on, uh, you know, what the, the cloud cover
B:	and like right now, it's, uh, it's kind of overcast, you know,
B:	just, it's hot,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and the sun is trying, tries to shine through
B:	but it's, it's holding in this, this pollution
B:	and I,
A:	It depends on whether you have some sort of temperature inversion, I take it.
B:	I think so,
B:	and, uh,
A:	Yeah.
B:	and we have, uh, Pasadena, Texas which is sort of between here an, you know, heading toward Galveston,
B:	I mean it's still part of, it's part of the Houston metroplex.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	uh-huh.
A:	What do you think is your primary cause of it.
B:	Well, I think it's industry
B:	and I think it's cars.
A:	You do?
A:	You really think cars contribute a lot now that they've taken lead out of gas?
B:	I don't, I,
B:	well maybe not,
B:	but, it, it sure, it sure,
B:	you know, it,
B:	I, I know that when I'm, when I'm behind a car
B:	and, uh, sometimes, uh, I can really smell especially diesel and things like that,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	you know, comes right into my air conditioner
B:	and, you know, my head and my
B:	I'm so stopped up right now,
A:	Um,
A:	my goodness.
B:	I don't know if it's, uh, if it's partly from what's blooming, you know, right now, pollen and stuff like that,
B:	that's part of it,
B:	but, um.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	I think a lot of it's industrial.
A:	I also think, uh, that, uh, there is a certain amount that comes from automobiles
A:	but it's mostly from older automobiles.
A:	I don't think the newer automobiles are as polluting, uh, frankly.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I think that, uh, I think that, uh, uh,
A:	if, uh,
A:	I, I, I heard a story a while back
A:	something to the effect that if they could just pay to get twenty percent, or, take all the cars off the road that have been, uh, manufactured say before nineteen seventy-five, that they could cut the automobile pollution by over fifty percent just by getting rid of those cars that are still left remaining.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	You mean, uh, fifty percent pollution total from that comes from,
A:	Yeah.
A:	From, from cars
A:	that is, not, not total but just from cars,
A:	okay.
B:	Oh, uh-huh.
A:	So, that I think would be tremendous help.
A:	But I happen to drive an old model car because it's very economical
A:	and it just keeps getting, uh, gives me good service
A:	and I don't have an incentive to get rid of it as long as it keeps running good and not costing me any money.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	On the other hand I know it's a much more polluter than any of the newer model cars I have.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	But I don't have any incentive to get out of it until it dies.
B:	Right.
A:	And, uh, that may be part of the problem.
B:	Do you all have pollution in your part of the country, uh, from industry?
A:	Yeah, ause
A:	yeah,
A:	yeah,
A:	oh, uh, yeah,
A:	it's, it's, uh, pretty heavy up here I think
A:	but I think it's mostly industrial, is what I really, uh, believe is the, the main problem.
A:	And, and, uh, ause
A:	and, uh, uh, people, uh, I don't think are paying as close attention to it in this area as they frankly should.
A:	I, I we, we seem to have a high, uh, cancer rate up here in Maryland.
B:	Really,
A:	Yeah,
A:	and, uh,
B:	like what
B:	any particular kind or just all kinds?
A:	Well, for instance breast cancer seems to be pretty rampant
A:	and, uh, I think,
A:	of course prostrate cancer's sort of bad for everybody,
A:	but, uh, this state was like the second,
A:	my wife's a registered nurse,
A:	and I think this state was like second this year from the top, in terms of, uh, cancer rate for just all kinds.
A:	And I can't help but believe that's not partially caused from pollution.
A:	I just don't know exactly what it necessarily is,
A:	but I just can't believe it is.
B:	Um.
A:	Now we have a lot of pollution being caused by uh, fluorocarbons which is the, like freon twelve and freon twenty-two.
A:	They use freon twenty-two in air conditioning systems in houses and the like and heat pumps,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and they use freon twelve in car air conditioners
A:	and that's also what's causing our atmosphere to lose it's ozone layer.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And I can't help believe if it's sufficient enough to make the atmosphere lose it's ozone layer, that it's not acting as a pollutant in our lungs also,
A:	and having all kinds of effects,
A:	and.
B:	Well what can we do about the, the, the, the air conditioning problem?
A:	Well they're working now,
A:	I know DuPont and Dow and several other chemical companies are working, uh, feverishly to try to come up with a substitute for fluorocarbons,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and who ever does is going to make, uh, a mint.
A:	Because if they ever come up with a reasonable working agent in place of fluorocarbons, then, uh,
B:	Is that also what's in, uh, aerosol?
A:	Well they used to be,
A:	but they made them take it out of that.
B:	Even, so, so the aerosol is still aerosol,
A:	Right.
B:	but it doesn't have anything that's damaging.
A:	No,
A:	they, they, they passed a law and made them take the fluorocarbons out of the aerosol containers,
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	well that's good.
A:	and that was a move in the right direction.
A:	We are doing some things to try to correct the problem.
A:	But there are more things we could do
A:	and getting rid of old cars, like I said is one way to help correct the problem.
A:	Uh, uh, just trying to I think be careful, uh, with the way you handle garbage,
A:	I notice in this state,
A:	I don't know if you're doing it in Texas yet or not,
A:	but in this state we have special containers now we have to put all our cans and bottles and plastic pieces, uh, you know, containers in,
A:	yeah.
B:	Here, they've just started, started doing that,
B:	it's, it's, you know,
B:	you're not, you don't have to,
B:	but you know,
B:	I know I am.
B:	I save,
A:	Yeah,
A:	well we are doing it pretty religiously in our group too.
A:	But they, uh,
A:	in one of the counties here, they're actually doing a trial program of having a trash police.
A:	They have a lady that goes around like a meter maid
B:	No kidding,
B:	really,
B:	oh.
B:	Is that right.
B:	Well, we need to do something,
B:	we need to get serious about it.
A:	Yeah,
A:	you,
A:	right,
A:	you've got to get people to see
A:	and surprisingly enough just handling of trash, uh, can cut pollution, uh, from, uh, uh, from just throwing it in a dump, or, or, or, where ever else they used to do with it, maybe used to burn it.
A:	They've stopped that up here too.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	But that, that will cut pollution too.
A:	Because you get a lot of out gassing from these things, I think, decaying and and trying to,
A:	for instance cans and bottles, they never go away at all.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	But on, on the other hand, I don't guess they're polluting.
A:	But plastic containers and the like, uh, they may be,
A:	I'm not sure of that.
B:	How much does, uh, planting more trees and things like that help?
A:	Oh I think that's very important to do.
B:	too.
A:	I, I really think that, uh, trying to get along with your environment and help it out is a very, very important thing.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, that can help to cut pollution, I guess some.
A:	I, I don't know how much trees actually act as filtering agents in terms of pulling various pollutants or chemicals out of the air.
A:	I would hope that they would help some, though.
A:	That's for sure.
B:	I think, uh, it seems like there was something going on, around here, that, you know,
B:	we have all these chemical plants and oil refineries and those kind of things and that they burn off a lot of stuff,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and some of the stuff that they weren't supposed to do that somebody found out, you know, like in the middle of the night, they would go ahead and do it anyway.
B:	I think they got caught.
A:	Oh good.
B:	But I wonder how much of that kind of stuff, you know, goes on.
A:	Well that, uh, that I think may go on a lot
A:	and the primary reason I think it may go on a lot is just as you said, somebody happened to stay up late at night or something.
A:	I don't think we have a adequate policing, uh, particularly on industry.
A:	Uh, we have good policing, at least in this state and, and several of the surrounding states and probably yours too, of car pollutants
A:	because we have to go down, uh, once a year here in Maryland and get out car's exhaust systems checked for emission content.
B:	Uh, we have to, uh, we have to have a state inspection every year.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Do you all have that?
A:	Uh, no,
A:	we don't have a state inspection,
B:	So,
B:	which I,
B:	I
B:	I would
A:	but any time you sell a car or buy a car it has to be inspected in this state.
B:	So I'm I'm assuming that, you know, they check, they check everything for safety
B:	or,
A:	I don't know,
A:	uh, that's something that you'd have to just check with your authorities.
A:	But in this state we have to, uh, pay eight dollars and a half and go to a, an emission station once a year and get every one of our cars checked that are, have been made starting in nineteen seventy-three.
B:	But that's all they check for,
B:	they don't check how good,
B:	if your tires are good enough or your brakes are good enough.
A:	No,
A:	no,
A:	we don't have inspections like that.
A:	Now, I'm in Maryland,
A:	in Virginia they check that every two years, I think.
B:	We do that every year.
A:	And I think that's a good idea too,
A:	not, not that it necessarily has anything to do with cutting pollution necessarily,
A:	but I think it's a good idea.
A:	The emission check, though, is required in Maryland
A:	and it's also required in Virginia, uh, a sister state to, to this one.
A:	And that's, that goes a long ways towards cutting pollutants.
B:	Well I'll have to check,
B:	I'm not sure if, if our state inspection
B:	once a year has to do, you know,
B:	if they check the, uh,
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	well if they don't I would imagine in time they'll get a law with. get around to it,
A:	and if they don't then that's something I would certainly, uh, uh, suggest you be willing to uh, uh, be for in terms of, uh,
B:	Oh, I would
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah.
B:	I'm for anything that cleans up the air or the water or, or, or anything.
A:	Oh yeah,
A:	I, I agree.
A:	Now that's another area we haven't even discussed
A:	and that is water pollution and various of the other types of, uh, of, uh, like food pollution.
A:	I mean you, you hardly ever hear, hear anybody say anything about food pollution.
A:	But I think there we have a pretty good handle on inspection of foods in this countries,
A:	so, uh, hopefully we're not ingesting too much in the way of, uh, pollutants in our food.
A:	But water pollution, uh,
A:	I've worried, especially the last few years about just how good the water supply we have in this country is for drinking and the like.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I know a lot more people are going to bottled water.
B:	Well
B:	and that's not necessarily the answer either
B:	because they've found out that that's just comes out of somebody's tap.
A:	Yeah,
A:	tap,
A:	yeah
B:	So,
B:	but a lot of these, uh,
B:	some of this
B:	well, you know, a lot of people have well water,
B:	in fact in this area too
B:	and, an, you know,
B:	and, uh,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	if you don't get it tested you don't necessarily know what you're, what you're drinking
B:	and I, I know a lot of people, you know, have that
B:	and, you know, you have to wonder if that, you know could have an adverse affect on them too, if they don't, they don't get it checked.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I'm absolutely for drinking water out of wells as long as you first of course, have it checked
A:	because it seems, uh,
A:	when I was a kid growing up down south, uh, I used to go out in the country where my grandparents were
A:	and we had a well,
A:	it was one of those draws that,
A:	I forget what you call those things,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and, and that was some of the best tasting water,
A:	I mean, I can still to this day taste that water.
B:	When we were,
B:	when I was growing up I lived in Huntsville, Alabama,
A:	Yeah.
B:	and their water supply came from, uh, spring.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And it was like ice cold, spring water
B:	and I guess parts of the, the city still you know, get that,
B:	but, uh, that was, that was really wonderful.
A:	Oh, I bet it was.
B:	It was really, really good.
A:	Yeah,
A:	once it's been filtered an if it's a deep enough well, filtered through all the earth and everything I think that, uh,
A:	it depends of course where you are.
A:	A good well, though, I think is very healthy ...
A:	The Latin American situation in,
A:	the last development I know of was the military and financial assistance Columbia for the, for the drug, uh, control.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And I support that fully.
A:	I'm not sure we have the right solution to it,
A:	but at least we're, we're going to the source of the problem.
A:	And,  the source of supply.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh, the problem is here,
A:	but the source of supply is there.
B:	That's true.
B:	Very definitely so.
A:	In fact I think a lot of the,
A:	I've been to, uh, Peru several times.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I've never been to other parts of South America,
A:	but, uh, I have been to Peru,
A:	and they need some assistance down there
A:	and I'm sure that, uh, as an undeveloped country they look, look for it,
A:	but there is not exactly a lot of, uh, physical responsibility there. *listen; probably 'fiscal' not 'physical'
B:	No.
B:	Very immature in that respect.
A:	Yes,
A:	right.
A:	And I, I think that, uh, they need guidance and assistance,
A:	but they need to learn how to stand on their own, own two feet also.
B:	I agree.
B:	I think that for so long power financially, uh, governmentally, every which way was in the hands of such a few that there's not the middle class that we, we perceive.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Oh, no, the, and the poor are extremely poor.
A:	I know,
B:	That's correct.
A:	I know, uh, some of the areas in, in Texas seem poor,
A:	but until you've seen some of those, uh, native,  Latin Americans come down from the hills, you can't imagine what poor is.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, the worst scene I've ever had I think was, uh, someone eating out of, out of a garbage can on the streets in Lima, Peru.
B:	And, and just very happy to get that.
A:	Oh, yes.
A:	Yes.
B:	I have a brother who spent two years in Bolivia.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And this is very much his, you know, reaction that the rich are so rich and the poor are so poor.
A:	Oh, the, there's a joke,
A:	the, the graft and the, uh, payoffs down there are are an accepted way
A:	and, in a way,
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	uh-huh.
A:	And there's, there's a sad joke.
A:	I guess all jokes are really sad,
A:	but there's a joke about the, uh, Ambassador from Latin America that came to visit a Senator in the U S and was taken to his home for dinner
A:	and the, uh, home was palatial.
A:	They had five or six servants, you know, and, and, a lot of expensive, uh, holdings and all that,
A:	and the Ambassador said, but I know what you make as a U S Senator,
A:	how can you afford all of this?
A:	And he said, come I'll show you
A:	and he walked out in the backyard
A:	and the, uh, Senator said do you see that hospital over there?
A:	And the Ambassador said, yes.
A:	And he patted his pocket
A:	and he said fifteen percent.
A:	He said, you see that school over there?
A:	And the Ambassador said, yes,
A:	and he pot, patted his pocket and said fifteen percent,
A:	so,
B:	Oh, gosh.
A:	so the next year the Senator went to Latin America to visit the Ambassador and was treated to dinner in his home
A:	and it was twice as large and four times as many servants.
A:	He said, well I know how poor your country is,
A:	how can you afford this, uh, in such a poor country,
A:	and he, he said, come I'll show you
A:	and he walked out the backyard
A:	and he said, do you see that hospital over there?
A:	And the Senator looked
A:	and he couldn't see anything,
A:	he said, no.
A:	And the Ambassador potted, patted his pocket and said one hundred percent
A:	so,
B:	Yep
A:	Yeah,
A:	that,
A:	it's a sad story
A:	but,
B:	Intentions, intentions
A:	Yes,
A:	yes,
A:	but it, uh, it is a problem.
B:	I know.
B:	Uh, I have a sister-in-law who is from Nicaragua
B:	and her family,
B:	her father was a fairly, uh, high ranking official under Somoza.
B:	And when that went down the tubes they had to get out.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And seventeen children,  filtered through into, into America through Guatamala, through Mexico, through Honduras,
A:	Um.
B:	you know, two here, three there, one here, you know, this kind of thing until,
A:	Yeah.
B:	and now, uh, couple of the older ones stayed or went back,
B:	but the rest of them now have their American citizenship and are leading productive lives,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but, you
A:	Well, the the other instance I think of their inability to, to handle things, the cholera,  and hepatitis epidemics now in, in Latin America.
B:	Yes.
A:	And it shows the, the unpreparedness for such, such a problem.
B:	Yes.
A:	And yet they're so,
B:	Oh, the stories she tells, you know, are just unnerving just unnerving.
A:	Yeah.
A:	And they're, they're so rich in resources there.
A:	They're very rich in oil and gas.
A:	And they're very rich in gold and silver, and very rich in, in, uh, natural resources such as the fish and, uh timber, and, and copper and all types of, uh, resources
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	uh-huh.
A:	but they,
B:	And the uranium.
A:	Yes,
A:	and,
A:	but they don't have,
A:	it's sort of like Russia,
A:	they don't have the ability to develop it.
B:	The technology.
A:	Right.
A:	And they, they're very,
B:	Well,
B:	and, you know, they're very willing to be taught in many cases now, too,
B:	but, you know, there's just always this kind of resentment underlying
B:	I think that when they receive help from us, they want it,
B:	but, they don't want it, I mean
A:	You're you're exactly right.
B:	It's kind of a catch twenty-two.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	It, it's sort of illustrated by the, uh, World Bank and International Monetary Fund not wanting to continue to do business there
A:	because they offer assistance, then don't get repaid.
B:	Yeah,
B:	yeah.
A:	So it's sort of a thumbing of the nose, uh, approach.
A:	They need it,
A:	and they need to live up to certain regulations and expectations,
A:	but uh, then don't.
A:	Of course it's a very volatile government, uh, situation, too.
B:	Well,
B:	and I think that, you know, it,
B:	somewhat a sarcastic view,
B:	but some of those drugs czars, you know,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	You know,
B:	You know, that's really, uh, kind of a far fetched idea,
B:	I know,
B:	and I don't think people probably think those things consciously,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but it's like in any sibling rivalry
A:	Well the,
B:	we're hearing the same,
A:	The solution discussed at one time and I think it has real merit on the drug situation is that the the U S government could spend less money by buying the crop and destroying it than they are in trying to, to beef up the military and to do all other things.
A:	I think it would be cheaper to buy it and destroy it,
A:	which would still give the, uh, the grower in Columbia and elsewhere in Latin America the, uh, the money that they apparently need and go, go to the illegal crop for.
A:	And it would save the U S money in in the long run in how much they're trying to do,
B:	In the long run.
B:	And in the short run probably too.
A:	True.
B:	Course, then could, you know, at, at some point, could you ever convince someone to turn around and grow something that was productive for humankind.
A:	No,
A:	no.
B:	You know.
A:	And, I, I think finding an alternate to that would be very good.
B:	I mean even their, even their legal crops are things that we don't perceive as being healthy now from a medical standpoint of view, coffee tobacco you know
A:	Right.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Argentine beef,
A:	yeah,
A:	yeah.
B:	They're certainly legal,
B:	but they're certainly not healthy.
A:	Well, have we come up with a solution yet, Salina?
B:	No,
B:	not that I know of
B:	But it's been fun hashing about it I suppose.
B:	At any rate,
B:	yeah.
A:	Yeah,
A:	yeah.
A:	Well, one of these days, uh, I hope we'll find some, some way to substitute the good crops for illegal ones.
B:	Well, let's just hope that the powers that be, uh, have time to, a little bit once in a while to, to think in some farther reaching avenues than you and I do here tonight
B:	but,
A:	I agree.
B:	Well, it's been nice chatting with you.
A:	Yes,
A:	it has.
B:	I appreciate it,
B:	and, and tell your wife I hope we, I get her again sometime, too.
B:	This is fun,
A:	Very good
B:	It's kind of nice to, to see old friends now, you see.
A:	All right,
A:	thank you Salina.
B:	Bye now.
A:	Bye.
B:	Gun control seems to be a rather, uh, timely topic, with all that's going on legislation wise.
A:	Yes
B:	And, uh, the, the interesting scale that they assigned it, uh, the one being a banned and ten being no regulations or totally free
B:	I'd have to put myself pretty much in the middle, I guess.
B:	I, I don't mind regulating all of the, the guns
B:	and I would certainly call for a ban on certain types.
B:	Now the, the wisdom as to which types, that's going to be a debate forever, I would assume.
B:	Uh, the method of, of controlling it, well that's all into how much money you want to put into the, the controls.
B:	Uh, one point that was made in the House hearings
B:	or
B:	the representative stood up and said, you know, we can check a guy's credit card instantly,
B:	but, uh, we don't want to check his background,
B:	and of course those are two different issues as far as privacy goes
A:	Right.
B:	uh,
B:	but there still, the, the technology exists to, to check it if they want.
B:	So, it's, it's kind of a,
B:	I guess you could put a dollar figure on it if you really want to make that kind of an effort and regulate it like that.
B:	And then you've got the group of people that decide that there's, there's no particular reason to have them at all
B:	and you got to balance those against the ones that say there is some sport to it
B:	and I guess I would fall more in the, the realm that I like the sport issue of it,
B:	but I, I could give it up without too much trouble,
B:	not the world's most pleasurable thing
B:	and it costs a bit to do it, uh, finding ranges and things like that.
A:	Yes
A:	Right.
B:	Uh, I have shot a variety of guns for a number of years,
B:	but it's just not like golf or whatever.
B:	I mean there are other things that you could go do.
B:	So, uh, I, I don't see the, the joy of shooting as, as that much of a driving factor.
B:	I think that society could easily swing the scales the other direction just for the sake of safety of the number of kids that tend to get hurt,
A:	Yeah.
B:	I don't even keep the gun in our house,
A:	Right.
B:	so I don't have that problem,
B:	but, uh,
B:	it's a hard, hard topic, I guess.
B:	A lot of people have a hard issue, a lot of hard feelings about it.
A:	They do,
A:	and you, boy you can get them on either side
A:	and just like you say,
A:	uh, well I think I, I guess I'd have to place myself, uh, probably seven or eight
A:	because,
A:	or not,
A:	onto no control,
A:	I'm sorry, excuse me, that,
A:	uh, two or three.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I was going the wrong direction.
A:	Uh, because of, we had a neighbor child that was killed by another child because they had a gun in the house
A:	and the father kept the bullets in a separate place,
A:	but the little boy was five years old and was intelligent enough to,
A:	uh, he knew where booth, both places were, loaded the gun
A:	and they were playing cowboys and Indians
A:	and he shot the other little boy right between the eyes.
A:	So, uh,
A:	I mean it,
A:	it destroyed two families uh, in just that instant
B:	Right.
A:	and, and I, a lot of people say that they need it for protection, uh,
A:	having worked at one time in Baltimore,
A:	or,
A:	I don't know if you're in the big city,
B:	Dallas.
A:	are you,
A:	Dallas?
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	That's a big city
B:	Yeah.
A:	Uh, then you know that, uh, uh,
A:	if you live anywhere real close that, uh,
A:	the safety is, uh,
A:	some people argue that they need a gun to make sure that they aren't going to get shot because of the incidences of break ins and, you know.
A:	But, uh, uh, we have never had a gun in the house with my children growing up.
A:	Uh, I, uh,
A:	once, uh, uh, knew a fellow that had, had been a policeman
A:	and he said that if you pull a gun on a robber, he's going to assume that you know how to use it well,
B:	Right.
A:	Uh, so, you know, if he's got one.
A:	Uh, and if not,
A:	uh, then usually they, uh,
A:	if he's got a knife or whatever that can throw it at you,
A:	I mean, you know they, they,
B:	Right.
A:	he said that it, it was better not to have,
A:	especially myself, now I'm a widow,
A:	and, uh,
A:	I, so I'm, when my handicapped son is, is not at home, I'm by myself,
A:	but, uh, there's,
A:	I still won't have a gun in the house because he said it's really uh, playing Russian Roulette if you do
A:	Uh,
B:	Yeah.
B:	About the only circumstances that they'd be of any value is when you happen to already know that the, the, person was coming your way.
B:	Once you're surprised, it's too late.
A:	That's right.
B:	And, and the rare,
A:	That's right.
B:	you know, the very few of those burglaries actually occur in such a way that you knew the guy was coming,
A:	Right.
B:	and had time to do anything about it.
A:	That's right.
B:	And, I don't have that problem,
B:	as I don't use that argument as saying it's worth keeping one.
B:	In the, uh, N R As, uh, claim that the, uh, the constitutional, the right to bear arms and that whole statement, uh,
B:	it's hard to know the original intent,
B:	but I, I don't see it as that, that difficult of a story to believe when the opposition says that, uh, yeah, it's the right to, to arm a militia and, as opposed to just the general public.
A:	Right.
B:	And you have a, you have a earn a right,
B:	not just a privilege as it were if you're going to serve in the militia,
B:	then you have a right to have that arm,
B:	but, uh,
A:	That's right.
B:	you know, there's all sorts of arguments there
A:	I know
B:	but, I don't even want to worry about what the original intent was,
A:	No.
B:	they didn't have this problem back then
A:	No,
A:	that's true.
A:	That, That's, that's right,
B:	So, we change our rights with our social status.
A:	that's right.
B:	They're man given rights
B:	and they can be taken away by a man,
B:	so,
A:	Right.
B:	uh, the people that hide behind that, I don't worry about.
B:	They can go live in another country if they want.
A:	Well, yeah,
A:	that's how I feel, too.
A:	I know, well,
A:	even here where I work, uh, we have a, a gun club.
A:	And, of course, those people are very avid.
A:	They, you know, they say there should be no ban,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	that it's not,
A:	but I can't see why any, uh, on the street citizen should be able to be allowed to have a machine gun.
B:	Right.
A:	Uh, you know, when you were talking about maybe what kind of guns that would be hard to decide,
A:	but there are a few guns that, uh, just are not, uh, sport,
A:	or, I mean,
A:	I don't know too many people that use a machine gun to go sport hunting either
B:	Right.
A:	So, uh, I, I think they should have at least some control over, over those things.
A:	Uh, and when you were speaking about how they can check up, you know, on credit cards,
A:	well, I, I understand about the privacy act and everything,
A:	but why can't they check to see if the person who is applying for this gun has had a record or not.
A:	That, to me, would not be an unreasonable thing.
B:	Right.
A:	And if they do,
A:	course the argument with the people in the gun club, uh, is that, uh, well the people that are going to get guns are the ones that are going to steal them anyway.
B:	Right.
A:	And so, it's not going to be that they're buying them.
A:	Course, some of them do.
B:	Yeah.
A:	So it, it is a hard question
B:	Tends to, tends to strap only the legitimate people.
B:	Most regulation does
A:	Right,
A:	oh, yeah.
B:	and, most,
B:	it's very difficult to, uh, legislate, uh, crooks or whatever you want, however you want to word it
A:	That's right.
B:	so it's,
B:	well, this may be a never ending topic.
B:	I got a couple of calls waiting on me,
B:	so I'd better let you go.
A:	Okay,
A:	well thanks for talking.
B:	Okay, bye.
A:	Bye-bye now.
A:	Uh, our children are both, uh, basically adults.
A:	They, we've, we've got two.
A:	Uh, one is twenty-one,
A:	and one is twenty-five.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And they, they still live at home.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Well, that's, that's a little unusual for, uh, for children of that age, to have both of them that age at home.
A:	But, uh, I guess the activities that, uh, we have with them are, uh, pretty few and far between.
A:	Actually the, they're both going on their own most of the time.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	So, uh, most of our activities are, you know, just discussion type things about what's going on in the family and what they're doing and that kind of thing.
B:	Uh-huh
B:	Well, we have a, uh, three year old and a one year old.
B:	And, uh, so you know it keeps us pretty busy as you know.
A:	Sure it does.
B:	And, uh, most of the time with a three year old we're trying to, to get him, uh,
B:	well, we play usually in the evening when, when I get home, you know, about five o'clock or so until about eight, you know, with the exception of dinner.
B:	Out in the front or backyard playing like, uh, tee ball off the, you know, off the ball and let him hit a lot of baseball.
B:	Uh, since we just got here we got the, uh, uh, new two wheel bike with training wheels on it for him,
B:	and he really likes riding that around.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Oh, yeah.
A:	I,
B:	So, you know,
B:	and trying to supervisor him with that and everything and, uh, playing squirt guns and all that,
B:	he really likes that.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And, uh, the one year old just kind of follows along and does everything,
B:	trying to do everything he does.
A:	Yeah,
A:	is the one year old a boy?
B:	No,
B:	it's a girl.
A:	A girl?
B:	Yeah.
A:	ours, uh, the older one is a girl,
A:	so.
A:	And the, and the younger one is a boy,
A:	so.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Uh, I guess, uh, what I see is so far as, uh, the trends, uh, uh, for children, uh,
A:	I don't know what kind of a area Virginia Beach is,
A:	but, of course, uh, Richardson is in the Dallas area.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And I think, uh, the big city, uh,
A:	activities for, for children now are,
A:	they're good
A:	but there's so much, uh, potential danger, you know,
A:	that you really have to watch your children so closely now
A:	that, you can't let them grow up the way, the way I grew up, you know.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I, I'm from a smaller town in east Texas.
A:	And I could, you know, go and do whatever, pretty much whatever I wanted to do, uh, my whole life.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh, you know, I never, never had to worry about the bad guys being out there.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, you know, I find it's, it's quite a bit different now
A:	that, uh, you know, you have to watch your children so closely and, uh, keep up with them.
A:	I, I feel like, uh,
A:	that it's, it's really a sad commentary on, uh, you know, a life in general,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	that, uh, you know that children can't, cannot be allowed to grow up, uh, you know, without really close supervision.
B:	Well, I, I agree with that,
B:	and I seem, I seem to feel the same way, you know,
B:	even just when I grew up and everything.
B:	And, and, the way it is now you get a lot of supervision is, is at hand and everything.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh, the only other thing I have noticed though is that, uh, it seems that there's been a lot of or more emphasis at least in what we've been dealing with
B:	and, and the looking, you know,
B:	just start not even,
B:	not really looking for a school for him but, uh, like a preschool or something that where he would go maybe a couple hours a couple days a week or something.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	For, for a three year old it's that, uh,
B:	there's a lot of emphasis on, on, on, on education and what these children should know before they reach kindergarten.
A:	Right.
B:	And, and it seems like it's a lot more than they need to know and be able to do than when we are the, when I had to go in kindergarten.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And it seems like it's more, uh,
B:	you know, I don't know.
B:	They're expecting more or, uh, or just, uh, you know,
B:	kids just because of the computer age or whatever, it just, know more when they get, you know, to be five or six or something.
A:	Yeah.
B:	But,
A:	Um, I guess looking at, uh, back at, at what our children did compared to what, uh, you know, what I had to go through in school.
A:	The, uh, there there does seem to be a lot more in the curriculum.
A:	It's a lot more complicated.
A:	A lot more available, of course.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	But, uh, this,
A:	so much more to learn now that it really makes it more difficult, I would think.
A:	I, I would probably have a hard time getting through school myself.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh, you know, just,
A:	or at least it would be a lot harder than it was when I went to school.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	One thing is I got a home computer too
B:	and, uh, I play, uh, with the three year old
B:	I play some computer games and stuff with him.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Educational games like, you know, concentration type games, the matching, things like that.
A:	Right.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And, uh, he's, he really likes it
B:	and, uh, and I think it's important because I think that, uh, you know, it gives him the interaction with the computer
B:	because it sure looks like that's going to be you know, the big thing for a long time.
A:	Huh,
B:	And given, given that knowledge and stuff with it
A:	yeah,
A:	I think, uh,
B:	and he seems to enjoy it.
A:	ery faint Oh.
B:	And, uh, of course, the one year old hasn't, hasn't gotten there yet
B:	but, uh,
B:	and the other thing we try to do is, uh, since the here is, uh, sign him up for, and her, for, uh, different activities at like the rec center or something like swimming,
A:	Right.
B:	you know, uh,
B:	or,
B:	there's a little soccer thing that he's going to do for a week or so
B:	and, uh, you know,
B:	where they go for an hour or so.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And, uh,
B:	because, uh, when he was a baby that we did the swimming too
B:	and he really liked it
B:	so we're going to do that with our daughter too.
A:	Yeah.
A:	That, uh, uh, watching a little, little boys play soccer is, is more fun.
A:	I can't imagine them having as much fun as the parents, had watching them
B:	I know.
B:	Well, we were just talking about that too.
B:	And I guess it's not really soccer it's just kind of a, well, kick the ball around for a while, see what happens
A:	Right,
A:	yeah
A:	The, the disorganized play really what it was,
A:	but, but, uh,
B:	Yeah.
A:	yeah,
A:	when ours was a,
A:	he,
A:	I guess he was probably five or six, you know, when he first started playing soccer.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, and that was, that was more fun to watch those boys trying to, trying to kick the ball up and down the field.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	But, uh,
A:	and it's,
A:	I guess, that was, you know, as important, uh, as much important to the parents as it was to the children that, uh, you know, to get out and watch the kids play,
A:	so.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I guess one of the things that I think about is a, talking about education, uh, I kind of feel like, uh, that, uh, the, the school systems in this, particularly in this area, the systems are not under enough control.
A:	The, the students have a little too much, uh, too much leeway.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Excuse me.
A:	Um, and the, and that's kind of contradictory to what I said
A:	but, you know, you,
A:	the,
A:	you have to be under control so much when they're out
A:	but when they're in school they, they don't have quite, quite as much control, over them as, uh, as what I would liked to have seen.
B:	Right,
B:	right.
B:	Right.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh, uh, I kind of feel like there's, there's too much allowed to go on in at, at school.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, you know, it tends to, uh, to encourage students to not be as, you know, to not concentrate as much on the education.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	You know, they're, they're there for a good time.
B:	Right.
A:	And, you know, to, to see how little they can get by with.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Well, I know of number of people that are in the, in the, uh, school district down in, in, uh, San Antonio.
B:	And, uh, it seems like it's,
B:	a lot of the problem is to, you know,
B:	you always have the lack of funds
B:	but it seems to be getting worse and worse
B:	and so they don't settle the resources to draw on to give as much supervision as, as, as, kids need.
A:	Right.
B:	And, uh, you know, that's just a problem that who knows how that's going to, that's going to come out or anything.
A:	But, uh,
B:	But,
A:	ery faint Yeah.
A:	But, uh, I, I don't, I don't know
A:	I think, uh, you know, some of the thing has to do with, uh, with the civil rights program.
A:	Not that the civil rights program is bad
A:	but that there's,
A:	it carried over, into, you know, individual rights
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and it, you know, trickled
A:	Well, Tom, just tonight, I was working on my car out of necessity,
A:	and I had, uh, uh, had a long age-old problem of my bright lights not working,
A:	uh, this is the type of, uh, switch where you flip the, the lever, the turn signal on the column
B:	Yeah.
A:	and when I would, uh, put it in the bright light position the lights would go out completely,
A:	which is even worse than them just not getting bright
B:	Exactly.
A:	And I had presumed that it was the switch,
A:	and, uh, this is, uh, an older car,
A:	it's a seventy-two M G,
A:	so I had to mail order the part, uh,
A:	which I had done,
A:	and tonight I went out and, uh, at least hooked in the new part, only to discover that that apparently is not the problem,
A:	it's not in the switch, because it does the same thing with the new switch.
B:	Oh.
A:	So I'll be faced with having to return that product and, uh, hoping that, uh, you know, that they will accept it,
A:	although it's been removed from the box it's obviously not been really used.
B:	Did you do the diagnosis, or was it just an assumption that that's probably the part that failed?
A:	Uh, I had done what diagnosis I could, primarily by looking at a wiring diagram that I did have of the car and, uh, pretty much decided that that had to be the problem.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I talked to one mechanic about it,
A:	and he suspected the switch also.
A:	Uh, but I've not, you know,
A:	I really don't know what the problem might be.
A:	It, it, the other switch could be the main switch itself, uh, that turns the lights on or off, which is on the dashboard
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	uh, it might be tied into the equation somehow,
A:	but,
B:	Yeah, I know,
B:	uh, when working with the, uh, flashers, there is, uh, usually a, a special fuse that operates the flashers.
B:	Do you have a separate fuse for your high beam as opposed to your low beam?
A:	I I don't know,
A:	I should look at that.
A:	I don't remember seeing one in the, uh, in the diagram
B:	Diagram.
A:	so I'll have to go back and look at that.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I don't even know if my current cars have a separate fuse.
B:	I know sometimes when you think there are things running while they're at the same unit, like the headlamp
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	you tend to think, well, there's one fuse operating the whole thing,
B:	but sometimes the extra amperage that a high beam drives as opposed to a low beam requires, uh, the use of a, of a maybe a higher fuse.
A:	Yeah,
A:	that's a good idea.
B:	So, that's a possibility.
A:	What I've typically found when that, uh,
A:	companies are pretty good about accepting returns on products like that when they're not needed after all,
A:	and I hope that that's the case this time.
B:	Is this a, a mail order parts house that specializes in, in parts for parts for, uh, old imports?
A:	Right,
A:	exactly
B:	Who,
A:	it's out of Kansas somewhere.
B:	Um
B:	so, it's not J C Whitney or somebody like that.
A:	No,
A:	it's not.
A:	I also got a piece of chrome for the, the hood that they had indicated was the right part for this car,
A:	but it is not either,
A:	it's obviously doesn't quite fit,
A:	so it must be for a different year,
A:	so I'll have to try to return that as well.
B:	Yeah,
B:	have you found any, uh, uh, reliable import service people in the metroplex?
A:	Well, I had one person that I used for years and years on this car,
A:	because I've owned this car since it was new,
A:	and, uh,
A:	but it's over like in the Brook Hollow industrial district down on Stemmons and Inwood area
B:	Oh, yeah.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and I hadn't used him for some years,
A:	and the last time I called him back it turned out that he had further specialized
A:	instead of, uh, all import cars, he has narrowed it down to where he only works on, uh, German cars and ause German cars
B:	I'll be darned.
A:	I'm not sure that he works on much else at all,
A:	but he doesn't work on British cars any more, and gave me the name of somebody else to take a look at it.
A:	So, uh, uh, I may have to check with that person,
A:	as it turns out that one, that shop is near where I now work.
A:	So, I'll, uh, I should be able to take it in and check that part out.
A:	I've not had to exchange any other parts recently, because they were defective.
A:	Now, I've had, had pretty good luck,
A:	I just, however, did, uh, have to get a, a, uh, one of these jam box portable dual cassette players, uh, repaired.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I purchased it at Sam's,
A:	and I had assumed that it had a ninety day warranty,
A:	and I should have checked more carefully and done a better job of saving the receipt,
A:	because I didn't take it in right away, and let a whole year go by.
A:	Uh, some of the buttons didn't work right, where you had to actually physically hold them down to get it to record or to play,
A:	and as it turned out, it had a full year's warranty,
A:	and I could have gotten it repaired for free
A:	but I had to take it in,
B:	Oh, my goodness.
A:	while it was in the shop I ended up finding the receipt that I thought had long since been lost,
A:	uh, but it didn't do me any good, because I had, I had missed the window by about a week or two.
B:	Oh, no.
A:	So I didn't even, I didn't really, uh, even bring it up when I went in to pick it up.
A:	But, uh, that's really my only experience in the past year where I've had to take a product back because of a defect.
B:	Well, ours wasn't within the last year.
B:	I guess it's been within the last two years, uh,
B:	Judy has an Oldsmobile that we bought new,
B:	and it's one with the, uh, electronic ignition and the computer controlled mixer, and, uh,
B:	I don't know what else it all controls, but the fuel mixture and cruise control and things of that sort,
B:	and we found that the, uh, uh, we were having two problems.
B:	It was idling fast, when you first started the engine, to the point that we park on a hill, under our car port,
B:	and, it, when you first dropped it into geared it would immediately want to back up into the alley,
B:	and knowing that, you always had to keep your foot on the brake hard,
B:	otherwise it would just wrench control away from you.
A:	Good grief.
B:	And the other problem Judy would have is occasionally she would, uh, be driving along, uh, decelerating, like coming to a stop sign, but not yet stopped at the stop sign
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and the engine would just quit.
B:	So, we took it back to the, uh, Oldsmobile place and asked them to check it out,
B:	and at first they thought it was just a matter of timing,
B:	so they adjusted timing
B:	and the problem didn't go away,
B:	so we ended up taking it back again,
B:	and I don't know why they don't look at these things the first time around,
B:	but the second time around they looked at their, uh, recall service and their service reports from region or headquarters whatever,
B:	and, and they had a description of the exact problem we were experiencing that apparently was a programming error in the, uh, computer control unit,
A:	Huh.
B:	which fortunately they replaced under warranty, because it was about a three hundred or three hundred and fifty dollar part
A:	My goodness.
B:	and, uh, so once they replaced it, then the, the car seemed to work fine for a considerable period of time,
A:	Huh.
B:	and now it seems to be,
B:	we we're not experiencing the stalling,
B:	but we're still experiencing a very uneven,
A:	Okay.
A:	What do you think about it?
B:	Uh, well, immigration,
B:	I know they're really strict right now because my husband is from out of the country
B:	and, uh, we had to go through a whole, very long process to, uh, to, assure the government that he was, uh, marrying me and not to be a resident here.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	That's
A:	yeah,
A:	I think that's, uh, I think it's a little crazy.
A:	I worked with Spanish people for about two years
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and just, it was incredible to me to see the things that they had to go through when they were really some of the best workers.
B:	Yeah,
B:	that's true.
B:	I mean, you can't just come over to the country because, uh, you want to.
A:	Right.
B:	You know, that's not good enough.
B:	You have to have a, have to have a darn good reason of, political or whatever.
A:	Right,
A:	exactly.
B:	Not a good, not a good easy way to get in.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I think, you know, I think in a lot of ways the law is good because it tries to, to protect, you know, the people who are in the states.
B:	Exactly.
B:	My mother, uh, actually knew a woman in another state that used to marry men just,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	she'd never even meet them
B:	and she'd just get money for it.
A:	Oh, you're kidding.
B:	Huh-uh.
B:	So,
A:	Sounds like a lot of fun.
A:	Yeah,
A:	it's amazing to me how, how many things they would allow to occur before, you know, you can come in.
B:	Exactly.
B:	But, I mean, with the new laws, it's it's tough now.
A:	Right.
A:	Yeah,
A:	it's kind of frustrating, too, for those who are legitimate now.
B:	Exactly.
A:	You know, I think,
B:	Well, and, you know, uh, my grandparents came to this country just wanting a better life, you know
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and they got here,
B:	but now it's a, you know, it's so strict that you can't just do that.
A:	Right,
A:	exactly.
A:	And I think it's important that they, you know, they allow a good number of people in every year
A:	because really they're the ones who work the hardest and do the jobs that, that we don't want to do.
B:	I agree.
A:	And I just,
A:	I don't know,
A:	I have, personally I have a problem with it,
A:	I think, that, you know, if someone wants to come in and they can prove that they're going to work and they're going to be a good citizen that we shouldn't close our door.
B:	Exactly.
B:	If they're not going to be on welfare or, or, or whatever.
B:	They're going to be a productive citizen Zen.
A:	And, you know, I, I believe that if someone goes on welfare that's when, you, you know, send them back to their country.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And, I think a lot of times we're so busy trying to keep them out that we're spending twice as much money as we would just allowing them in
A:	and,
A:	Yeah,
A:	and that's, that's what I think.
A:	You know, I, I have to laugh
A:	because, like I said, I worked with a lot of those
A:	and they'd been deported two or three times
A:	and just basically what they do is they get caught when they wanted to go home for Christmas. Or for any other time.
B:	That's right,
B:	that's our money.
B:	Yes,
B:	that's true.
A:	But, I think, you know, I think all in all there's a lot of improvements.
A:	I think the general idea is good
A:	but, but there could be some work done in the area.
B:	I, I think
B:	I, I agree.
A:	Well good
A:	Anyway, do you have anything else in the, the subject, uh that you might want to talk about?
B:	Uh, I, uh,
B:	boy
B:	this is spur of the moment, uh,
B:	but, I, I don't really see any, any changes that I think of really blatant right now
B:	other than I think they ought to take, you know, on a case by case basis and not necessarily make it a, uh, political refugee.
A:	Yeah,
A:	absolutely.
A:	I think a lot of times we take, you know, basically who we want to
A:	because if you, if you have connections, it's a lot easier to get in.
B:	Exactly.
B:	Connections and money.
A:	Yeah,
A:	and I think, you know, it should be more of a thing that's based upon someone's intent, you know. And that it should be equal to all
B:	Yeah.
A:	and then not like the United States,
A:	basically, it's not who you know,
A:	it it doesn't become a thing of who you know, but, but how the type of person you are.
B:	I agree.
A:	And it should be based on those kinds of things so the good people, like probably your husband, can get in
B:	Yeah
B:	Well, we got him past that,
B:	but, uh,
A:	Well, great.
B:	I know there's a lot of other people out there, would probably do a good job here.
A:	Yep.
A:	Well, let's see,
A:	is there anything I believe in
B:	I think that's it.
B:	Is this like a very short call?
A:	No,
A:	I'm not sure how long they're supposed to be,
A:	but, I've enjoyed it.
A:	It's good hearing your, your point of view
A:	and I think that's neat.
A:	I think we agree a lot on that
A:	and I've learned something from it.
B:	I did, too.
B:	Well, it was nice talking to you.
A:	Well, thanks,
A:	I'm glad you're home.
A:	You have a good evening, all right?
B:	You, too.
A:	Thanks,
A:	bye-bye.
B:	Bye.
A:	Well, seems to me the, one of the reasons that people don't go out to vote is maybe they're bored with the whole election process.
B:	Well, I agree with the boredom of the election process,
B:	but I also, uh, think that people don't realize that their boat, vote will make a difference.
B:	Uh, they feel like that, you know, it's going to go however it's going to go
B:	and their one little vote is not going to make that much difference
B:	and it's, just why make the effort.
A:	Well, sometimes, strangely enough, one vote has made the difference.
B:	Well, I agree with that
B:	and I, and I do know that, you know, all those votes are counted
B:	and, and they do make a difference.
B:	Uh, also I think that people have a tendency to, to vote in the larger elections and not vote in the, the more local elections.
A:	Well, it's kind of strange
A:	because in the local elections is the ones that have the most influence on their day-to-day lives.
B:	Exactly,
B:	and, I, I even have a tendency to do that myself.
B:	And I have to really make a concerted effort to, to get involved.
B:	I live, I live in a suburb in Mesquite
B:	and, uh, so I really have to make an effort to read the local paper and to see what's going to because that directly affects me.
B:	But I, I think on the whole, most people don't, uh, feel that way.
B:	Or don't look, even look at that.
B:	I think they just don't even,
B:	I, I don't think they're conscious of it.
A:	Well, maybe part of the problem is they don't, they think they have enough choices.
B:	Well, that may be true, too.
B:	I hadn't thought of that.
A:	You know, in some of the European countries, they have numbers of parties that run
A:	and then lot of more voters come out to vote than vote in this country.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	right.
B:	And sometimes it's, uh,
B:	well, not sometimes, but many times it's who has the most money to spend on the largest campaign
B:	and, and issues get, uh, bogged down.
A:	Well, maybe it's a matter of, you know, voter awareness.
B:	Uh, I think voter awareness,
B:	I, I did some work for the, uh, Women's League of, uh, Voters, uh, several years ago
B:	and, I think there are some organizations that used to, uh, do some voter awareness, uh, things.
B:	They don't get a lot of participation.
B:	They don't get a lot of, uh, activity.
B:	Most of the League of Women Voters, what they did was they put out information, so that it, it would just be made available to everyone.
B:	Now, other areas that I've worked in, like in the chambers, they would just have the candidates come
B:	and it would just, you know,
B:	that was not a lot of community involvement
B:	and those were people that would mostly vote anyway.
A:	Well, I think part of the problem is the election goes on way too long.
A:	In Britain, you know, they have a set period of time
A:	and, and for campaign, that's it.
A:	In this country, it seems like it's a continuous ongoing campaign.
B:	It's a, it's an ongoing campaign
B:	and it's expensive campaign
B:	and it, it, uh, eliminates a lot of qualified people.
B:	Uh, maybe more qualified and, uh, more dedicated to the issues.
A:	Well, the, they don't want to spend the time
A:	or they don't have the money.
B:	Exactly,
B:	exactly
B:	and it, it,
B:	I, I can't I just can't believe,
B:	I've, I've worked in a couple of local campaigns.
B:	I just cannot believe the dollars that are spent just even locally.
A:	Well, it's a matter of name recognition.
A:	People aren't going to vote for someone they've never heard of.
B:	Oh, well, I agree with that,
B:	but also,
B:	and I, and I'm not for controlling how much is spent,
B:	but do you know,
B:	that's one thing,
B:	if a, if the time wasn't so,
B:	if it wasn't such a long, uh, campaigning time, then they couldn't spend as much money.
A:	And even debates don't seem to help much.
B:	No,
B:	they really don't.
B:	Uh, it's it's, a lot of it is who looks the best, who, uh, who happens to say the right thing at the right time, who, not, who may not be the most qualified and can get the uh, the job done.
A:	So we're really voting for the best makeup person and the best handlers.
B:	Exactly.
B:	And it's a, it's a lot,
B:	I've worked in public relations a lot
B:	and, uh, that kind of thing can make and break, make or break you
A:	Well, that was certainly a media event.
B:	and it's just, uh, uh,
B:	he possibly could have, uh, won that election had it not been for some of the the, uh, the way he presented himself.
A:	Well, he had a classic case of hoof in mouth disease.
B:	Hoof, is, is, I guess the right term for him.
A:	Night,
B:	Fine,
B:	thank you.
A:	I understand we're supposed to talk about spaceflight.
B:	Yes.
A:	I hope you know more about it than I do.
B:	Oh, well I just got through renting, reading, uh, SPACE by, uh, James Michener.
A:	Oh, is that right?
B:	And so that, uh, helped out a little bit I think.
A:	I haven't read his book.
A:	I was so upset with TEXAS that I haven't gotten into any more of his books because I thought it was just horrible.
B:	Well, he tends to go into a lot of detail sometimes.
A:	Well,
A:	and I don't think he was truthful in a lot of what he did in TEXAS
A:	so I wasn't sure how credible he was.
B:	Oh, is that right?
A:	But anyway, what do you think we've gained from the spaceflights?
B:	Well uh, I'm not sure to be honest with you,
B:	so, uh, this going to the moon seemed to be a exciting adventure
B:	and, uh, And, yeah,
A:	Ego trip.
B:	it was nice to go there,
B:	but I don't know that it really benefitted mankind that much.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I happen to live not too far away from,
B:	uh, well, I've actually worked for the company that, uh, has been blamed for the Challenger disaster. Uh Morton Thiakol.
A:	Oh, is that right?
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And, uh, you know, that's been kind of a, a real negative feeling here
B:	is
A:	Right.
B:	sure it was, you know, very unfortunate thing that occurred there
B:	and it's,
A:	Where do you live?
B:	Uh, we live in, uh, Utah.
A:	You live in
A:	am I talking to Utah right now?
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Oh, oh, great.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Because I'm in Dallas.
B:	Uh,
B:	Oh.
B:	I have a sister that lives in Dallas,
B:	that's how we got hooked up to the program was her her husband works for Penney's there.
A:	I see.
A:	I see.
B:	So.
A:	Carolyn Rash?
B:	Pardon me?
A:	Is her name Rash, Carolyn Rash?
B:	No, her name is, uh, my last name is Skidmore.
A:	I see.
B:	And her, her husband's name is, his last name is Weight.
A:	I see.
B:	And, uh,
A:	Well, you probably know a lot about it.
A:	I wasn't sure that they were blaming that space disaster on one company.
A:	I hadn't heard that.
B:	Well, they were.
B:	There was, uh,
B:	apparently the specifications for the joints, uh,
B:	they were not to perform in, uh, cold weather
B:	and, uh, apparently there was definitely a, a joint that did not seal,
B:	and, uh, if you've ever seen the size of those, uh, motors that put them into space,
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I mean, they're as long as a football field practically and about twelve foot in diameter
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, and there is a lot of pressure, lot of thrust to get that much weight up in the air.
A:	Oh, yeah.
B:	So it's, this book was interesting, though.
B:	I, uh,
B:	talked about how a lot of the problems they have to come, overcome to, uh,
B:	it's a very complex, uh, situation to go into space.
A:	Oh, yeah,
A:	I would think so, too
B:	They would,
B:	the thing that he went into quite a bit of detail about how, how much of a problem it is to re-enter the Earth's atmosphere.
A:	You never think about that do you?
B:	Yeah.
A:	I would think it would be harder to get up than it would be getting back down.
B:	Yeah
B:	But they have to come in at a, just the right angle.
B:	If you come in at the wrong angle, what happens is they bounce off and go back into space
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and if they come into it at a different angle there is so much friction that it burns them up.
A:	Right.
B:	So,
A:	Well, I saw one of, some of those early space capsules at Smithsonian.
A:	I'm sure you've seen more of them than I have,
B:	Oh.
A:	but you could see the scorch on them, you know,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	they had though piles
B:	Yeah.
A:	but you could see where they would come off in the, how hot it got because it was still the scorch on them which was quite interesting.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I've, I've, I would say I've never, I've never seen an actual capsule.
A:	Well, I,
A:	excuse me, go ahead.
A:	Oh, yeah.
B:	I've seen more, more of the motors that, that they produced out there.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Well, these were the ones that John Glenn went up in you know, and the old, old ones.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah.
A:	The very first ones,
A:	the little bell type things.
B:	People have commented how, uh, they were surprised at how small they were.
A:	Yeah,
A:	they really were,
A:	they just, uh,
B:	Looked pretty confining, huh.
A:	Oh, yeah,
A:	and, uh, the whole thing was small
A:	and, yeah, you, I mean, you actually put it on you know.
B:	Is that right?
A:	You put it around you pretty much,
A:	it was so small.
B:	Huh.
A:	Well, I thought there was some medical benefits that we have learned from space,
A:	but did he go into that in the book?
B:	Not really. Uh,
A:	I guess that's just to sell us on it.
B:	One thing's,
B:	I know one thing they've, they've mentioned that I didn't get from the book, by the way,
B:	but, it talked about, uh,
B:	they're able to manufacture, uh, different kinds of crystals and ball bearings and things like that in a zero gravity state that they turned out being almost, uh, nearly perfect as far as a ball bearing goes.
A:	Oh, yeah.
B:	It's perfectly round.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But I'm not sure you have to go to outer space to achieve that zero gravity.
A:	Well, that's true
A:	and,
B:	Yeah.
A:	That's right
A:	Well, do you think we should continue to support it at the level,
A:	well, I thought probably one of the things they were doing that they didn't tell us was spying.
A:	Because I think those satellites, you know, or not satellites, but the spaceflights could really spy
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and with, uh with Russia's demise, I didn't know if we should continue to support it at the current level.
B:	Yes.
B:	Uh, I think they have cut it back, to be honest with you. From, from the glory days when they did the Apollo shots to the moon.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Uh.
B:	Uh, I appreciate having the satellites.
B:	You know, that's certainly made it nice for other purpose.
B:	I don't know if you have a satellite dish or not.
B:	We don't
A:	No,
A:	I don't.
A:	I don't either.
B:	but I I know that's certainly helped a lot in that regard. Uh,
A:	Yeah.
B:	Okay.
A:	Uh, go ahead.
B:	What are we supposed to discuss again?
A:	AIDS research is something that, that, I think whether our country is putting enough money into it
B:	More money )),
A:	and actually I'm concerned that they're not.
A:	I have a friend who is working with, uh, who works with, uh, travel groups,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and one of the ones that he's worked with was professionals who came in for an AIDS, uh, conference in, uh, California.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And these were from other, people from other countries.
A:	He's a translator.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And in talking to the people from France he said, you know,
A:	he says, one of the things that really concerns me is your government is not telling you enough about how it and frightening this epidemic is.
A:	And they're letting, the information out slowly about how, you know, how big it is.
B:	Huh.
A:	Which is scary, you know, pretty scary when so many people get it.
A:	So, I guess I'm, I'm, I'd like to see us spend more.
A:	I don't know that spending more always gets it.
B:	Yeah.
B:	I'm, I'm ambivalent about it because, um, uh, well it is very frightening and scary.
B:	I have no perspective on how it relates to other diseases,
B:	and, uh, I mean whether,
A:	You mean more money for that means less for cancer or,
B:	Yes.
A:	yeah.
B:	And, uh, whether those diseases can
B:	some difference could be made if you did pour more money in like diabetes research
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	uh
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	didn't, uh, you know,
B:	but I, uh,
B:	then part of it's lack of education.
B:	I don't know whether, whether, you know, where our money would be most effectively spent.
A:	Well it,
A:	I, I agree with you there
A:	because I know every time that something comes into vogue all the money goes to that one
A:	and you don't know whether it's still also going to the other or if it's a limited pie.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Money from, money for taking care of the infants takes money away from taking care of the elderly,
A:	or do they both get served?
A:	Uh, that's a good point.
B:	And I'm, I am concerned a lot about, uh, I'm concerned about, uh, two things.
B:	One is preventing the spread
B:	and the other is for, uh, for, uh, treating the illness.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And I'm not certain,
B:	I, I,
B:	again this,
B:	I'm telling you,
B:	basically I don't have any opinion.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But whether or not it would be, uh, our money would be better spent, uh, teaching, you know, working on the drug problems and the, and the sex problems, uh, rather than trying to cure the people that already have it.
A:	Well, and one of the things I'd,
A:	and I'm with you that I don't know is, is that really the only way it's being transmitted or was that the easier way to tell us and we're going to find out more.
B:	Yeah,
B:	well, you know,
A:	That's, that's the part that,
B:	t-, whether my dentist or
A:	That's the part that scares me, you know.
A:	well no,
A:	well no,
A:	actually, it's,
A:	I mean, you know.
A:	Did they know that all along?
B:	and I heard something the other day, this sounds ridiculous, about mosquitoes.
B:	And, you know, they've been saying oh, no, absolutely not.
B:	Can't get it from mosquitoes.
B:	And, uh, and now they are saying well maybe in the right conditions,
B:	yes.
A:	Oh
B:	And I don't know that's true or not.
B:	I mean, I just heard it in passing,
B:	but so what does that,
A:	Right.
B:	what does that mean for people that you work with and shake hands with and
A:	And how is it really transmitted, et cetera.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Which is, I think, what they also don't know.
A:	I mean that's,
A:	I think they, they told us what was convenient and felt safe to say, you know.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	It was nice to isolate it to one particular community that they have trouble, you know, they just as soon not approve of anyway,
A:	but, but that isn't how it was in Africa.
B:	No.
A:	In Africa was the men and women and, and had nothing to do with that,
A:	and it's huge over there.
A:	So I, I, you know,
A:	and it's beginning, other countries
A:	that's what's his point.
A:	This was an international, conference where people are saying, well, but in my country it's, you know, like this.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And does that mean like flus and everything else, there are all these different strains of it?
B:	Oh.
A:	I mean I don't know.
A:	All I'm saying is I think it's scarier than we know.
A:	Uh, or maybe they understand but,
B:	I think maybe more information should be given out about it.
A:	Yeah,
A:	and, uh, and then the people that have it,
A:	it does seem that there are, are some drugs that are there that, you know, they keep holding back.
A:	If you, if I were dying, I'm not sure I would care.
B:	I, I, give me cyanide.
B:	I mean, is it )),
A:	Yeah,
A:	right.
A:	I'll take anything you know.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I mean if I'm dying, if I know I'm dying, you can experiment on me.
B:	Ri-,
B:	Exactly.
A:	Go ahead.
B:	And why can't you, why can't the F D A say, you know, if these people knowingly consent to be, research monkeys and well, let them,
A:	Exactly.
B:	let them, do it.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
A:	And that's what I think they're saying too.
B:	Have you had any snow up your way?
A:	No,
A:	we haven't had any since, uh, oh, just before Christmas
A:	and, uh we had a lot before Christmas.
B:	Um.
A:	The ski resorts were really
A:	and, uh,
A:	but, now we have, we've had fog, for about forty days in a row and temperature inversion,
A:	so,
A:	but no, uh, no snow.
B:	Um.
A:	The snows all melted off uh,
B:	Well, I talked to a woman who lived up in the hills, uh, mountains in, uh, Utah, I guess this last weekend
B:	and she had, uh, quite a bit of snow on the ground her way.
A:	Uh-huh,
A:	I guess there's different parts of the state of Utah that, that, does have some,
A:	but not,
A:	usually we have up to a hundred and fifty inches up at the ski resorts
A:	and they're down between thirty-eight and, uh, forty inches.
B:	Um
A:	At this time of the year,
A:	and we've been in a drought for the last five years
A:	and this is the sixth year
A:	and it's getting quite serious, as far as water next summer.
B:	Yeah,
B:	well, the weather, uh, here, is always a topic of conversation in Texas.
A:	Right.
B:	But, uh, we have wide variations and have warm weather when most people have cold weather,
B:	but we have our share of cold weather as well.
B:	The, uh, temperature this morning was right at freezing.
B:	It didn't stay there,
B:	but it was right at,
A:	Oh, that's, that's different, isn't it?
A:	Um.
B:	We usually have some of our coldest weather toward the, uh, end of January,
B:	but this year it wasn't bad at all.
B:	I guess that's because we had so much rain.
A:	I know my son was telling me about the rain down there.
A:	He said it was just,
A:	and we read in the newspaper, southern part of Texas I flooded out,
B:	Oh, yeah.
A:	and, uh,
B:	Well, my, uh, my sister lives in Houston
B:	and they, uh, the river there was, uh, in the flooding stage near where her son lives,
B:	and that, uh, caused some, uh, concern, of course.
A:	Oh, boy.
B:	They have a, uh, lake cabin
B:	and, uh, their dock was completely under water on the lake.
A:	Oh, my gosh.
B:	So we really had a lot of rain.
A:	Yeah my son in Plano, he lives fairly close to,
A:	there's quite a wash that goes down, uh, through Plano
B:	Right.
A:	and, uh, there's walking trails on both sides, a walking path,
A:	and, uh, when I've gone down to visit him I've gone on that,
A:	but, uh, that was clear full and up to, up to some of the streets, I guess.
A:	It just
B:	Yeah,
B:	we had a lot of flash floods in the area.
B:	We had a few people who ran into, uh, water and a few fatalities, uh, just a few.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Not more than ten
B:	but,
A:	That's funny that, uh, we can't have it in moderation instead of having either a drought or having too much.
B:	Well, the, uh, there's an old profane expression about Texas weather,
A:	Yeah,
A:	well, it's, uh, interesting,
A:	uh,
A:	I'm going down to El Paso next week
A:	and, uh, I was wondering what the weather was,
A:	but I imagine if it's that cold in Dallas it,
B:	Well, El Paso won't be cold.
A:	It's not a, doesn't get that cold, I guess, huh?
B:	No,
B:	it's, it's, quite southern
B:	and it's, it's rare to get real cold in, in El Paso.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	The, uh, you'll be flying in there?
A:	Yes.
B:	Well, uh, take off is, uh, fun from El Paso because you normally,
B:	the way the winds are you take off right toward the mountain, the Rockies
A:	Yes.
B:	and they're towering above you
B:	and so you circle back over the air and then make a circle around and come back over again.
A:	Yeah,
A:	we're kind of used to that here in Utah,
A:	course, there are mountains,
A:	and I fly into Montana a lot
A:	and we have a,
A:	the mountains are, are really, uh, high
A:	and a lot of places we go in to, you just kind of, uh,
A:	it's in the little valley,
A:	but, I, uh, sure hope we,
A:	we really need the moisture.
A:	I hope we can get, uh, get some.
A:	There's supposed to be a storm,
A:	but it split, went down through, uh, northern Arizona and southern Utah
A:	and they're not predicting any for the next, uh, week anyway up here
A:	so,
B:	Well, I noticed on the weather map on, uh, cable network that there was supposed to be a storm front moving into California and on down your way,
B:	but I guess it didn't pan out, huh?
A:	Yeah,
A:	well, that's, that's what the,
A:	above, uh,
A:	some of it went to the south and some to the north up into Montana,
A:	so that just left us,
A:	we got a high pressure system which been sitting in the
B:	Huh.
A:	and, uh, we broke the record for the amount of fog that we've had, uh, you know
B:	Oh, boy.
A:	airport's been shut down, uh, till about noon every day
A:	and then they seed the clouds, or seed the fog to try to to get the airplanes in and out.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Huh.
B:	Well, we, uh, had a bad siege last, uh, Christmas a year ago.
B:	We went up to visit my wife's, uh, sister who lives in, uh, Calgary, Alberta, Can,
A:	Well, the topic's about government.
A:	Uh, I'm not altogether sure that that's my best topic. Uh,
B:	I thought it was kind of a strange topic about corruption in the government and uh, how many people are self serving.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I mean, you I, I think people tend to think that the government is not corrupt And that people aren't self serving.
A:	Uh-huh
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I mean that's what I would like to think.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I, I, I think that the last, uh, part of that question was particularly interesting, uh, about, uh, uh, uh, can all unethical behavior, or how much unethical behavior can be made illegal uh, because it seems to me that when uh, government or public service of any kind degenerates so much that you have to have so many explicit ethical codes uh, parallel to the legal codes that, uh, we're focusing on the wrong thing.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	yeah.
A:	Maybe, maybe that's what is happening.
A:	Maybe so many things have become public with the media over the past, you know, ten to twenty years that, uh, it becomes more evident.
A:	Perhaps things that we didn't think of before and just concentrated on the lawmaking or the results that would be seen in public works or bills that are passed or, you know, et cetera like that
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and we were just not exposed to the personal lives of these persons.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And I couldn't help thinking when that last it was a funny question when that last part of the question came about how many things can we, uh, actually put a legal code on that, uh, how much, uh, should it be our, uh, prerogative to see into the private lives of these people. You know.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah,
B:	that makes sense.
A:	Um.
B:	Because you start prying in people's private lives, you ruin their lives as well as,
A:	That's right.
B:	And sometimes, you know, I don't even know how much of a difference it really makes, you know.
A:	Yeah.
B:	I mean, I guess in some cases, sure we care about what they did in the past
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but, uh, sometimes, I don't know
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I think it gets in the way of the better judgment.
B:	I mean just because you did something in the past doesn't mean he's not a good enough person to be a politician.
A:	I, I, I agree with that and, uh, and also that if the results that they're putting out and what they actually seem to be accomplishing by legitimate means is what's, you know, going to the public then, uh, then they'll pay for their private life in their own private conscience.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	That's it.
A:	And, uh you when it becomes public, though, it becomes scandalous.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah.
A:	The, that's, that's the thing that,
A:	uh, things that you don't know uh, do, do not worm their way around and influence other people or perhaps lead other people astray.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah.
A:	People could say, oh, they do it,
A:	so, I guess, you know,
A:	but, as soon as things do get public uh, there, there is that terrible concern.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Um
A:	So, sometimes I ask myself, what are, uh, people doing that are in the media when somebody, you know, comes up to office,
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	it seems that one of the first thing that's done is to dig up any kind of a thing they can on them and get it all over the headlines.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Oh, yeah
B:	I guess it's what sells newspapers, you know.
A:	It's a very low way of living.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh, so,
A:	and, and, and as far as, uh, you know, myself having any particular personal, uh, knowledge or insight into politics or politicians, it, I'm not terribly involved in it.
B:	Uh-huh
A:	Just in a very cursory way.
B:	Right.
A:	I vote
A:	and I, you know, try to do whatever I can on the little local area,
A:	but, I, I, it just is not one of the things that I have, uh, placed, uh, uh, a, a lot of my particular time and effort into,
B:	Yeah.
A:	so, I, I always feel very outside this kind of, uh, this kind of an issue.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Yeah.
A:	But, uh,
B:	I am kind of the same way.
B:	I just kind of read the paper follow up on I mean, you know, just keep an eye on what's going on
A:	Yeah.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah,
A:	right.
B:	but I don't really play an active role in any kind of politics
A:	Yeah,
A:	uh,
A:	Uh, uh-huh.
A:	I'm not, I'm not in there,
A:	I'm not one of those, uh, you know, volunteers that's down at headquarters and whatever, uh, although I admire the people that do that
A:	and they certainly do get inside information
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and, uh, of course, the better you know a person that might be affiliated with that kind of thing, the more you can trust their, their judgment and their insight.
B:	Right.
B:	Right.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	But the media insight, as you said,
A:	I just kind of read and kind of be aware
B:	Yeah.
A:	and then, uh, I don't like to make a whole lot of, uh, judgment myself unless things are so absolutely out of whack that, uh,
B:	Yeah.
A:	Okay.
B:	All right.
B:	That's a real different topic.
B:	I'm not sure I'm familiar with, with what they mean of invasion of privacy.
A:	I know.
A:	I guess that, I guess you consider just things that every day that would, you would think of about.
A:	See, I'm a college student,
A:	so I can think of lots of things that my roommate does that bother me you know, that I think's like is an invasion of my privacy, stuff like that.
B:	Yeah.
A:	But I think it'd be, it is kind of a tough topic.
B:	Yeah.
B:	I think, personally, you know,
B:	I'm, I used to be a college student ten years ago
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but uh, now I think an invasion of my privacy is when someone calls me on the telephone and says, Mrs Miller, have we got a deal for you.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Oh, golly.
A:	You're like, No, you don't, no.
B:	It's like, how do you know my name,
B:	where did you get my phone number,
B:	and why do you think it's a deal for me?
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I mean, those people, they'll call you any time of the day or night with, try to solicit
A:	Yeah.
B:	and that's an invasion of my privacy, I think.
A:	They call late,
A:	now, I mean, now there's, I heard that they were going to start calling on Saturdays or
B:	Oh, they do already.
A:	See, that's
A:	I would be so mad
B:	Well,
B:	and I've even had the computer generated calls on Sundays, too.
A:	Really.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Huh.
B:	But I do know of a way to get around the computer generated calls.
A:	How?
B:	Don't answer your phone, Hello.
B:	The computer's geared to, to start talking to you on the, on the word Hello.
A:	Really?
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Huh.
A:	I don't know,
A:	I think like things that, that
A:	I think's like privacy is like, just like, not going through my stuff, like going through, just like my clothes or my drawer, just going through my stuff, basically.
B:	Oh, yeah.
A:	That drives me up a wall.
B:	Are you and your roommate a similar size.
A:	No,
A:	see, we're not,
A:	and, uh.
B:	And she still goes through your clothes?
A:	Yeah,
A:	she'll take all my shirts and stuff,
A:	because she can't wear like my pants
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	but she'll take all my shirts and my blouses and stuff.
B:	Ooh.
A:	Man, I'm just glad she can't wear my pants or my skirts or my dresses, you know.
B:	Oh, yeah.
A:	But still, she'll just take them,
A:	and she won't even think about it,
A:	and then, I'll like see her that day,
A:	and she'll be wearing my clothes,
A:	and I'll be like, you know, I don't like to borrow my clothes out, you know,
A:	I really don't.
A:	So I prefer that you just not go in and get them
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	because she doesn't even ask me.
A:	Stuff like that really
A:	like that's an invasion of my privacy, I feel like.
B:	Oh, yeah,
B:	I agree.
A:	Stuff like that,
A:	when you have your door closed, people just walking in and stuff like that.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I was thinking like my mom.
A:	I know this,
A:	she would think this is like an invasion of her privacy, is like going through her purse, like if you ever needed money and stuff
B:	Oh, yeah.
A:	we always just give her her purse, you know,
A:	and she'll get it out or whatever.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I was trying to think,
A:	I was thinking that's the only thing I could really think of that would really be.
B:	My mom doesn't even like for us to go through her cabinets.
A:	Really.
B:	I mean, we're all grown,
B:	all her kids are grown,
B:	and we have our own families
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and now if we go through her cabinets she's like, Well, what are you digging for?
A:	Yeah,
A:	get out of my cabinets.
B:	Like, what are you doing?
B:	Don't you have your own house to dig through?
A:	That's great.
B:	Yeah,
B:	so, I guess, privacy is really,
B:	and at the work place, I suppose,
B:	oh, well, actually yes.
B:	I can say definitely, privacy at the work place.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	I hate it for people to open up my drawer to my desk
A:	See.
A:	Yeah.
B:	because that was, that was where I kept all my stuff,
B:	and I could tell I mean, even if a pen was turned the wrong way.
A:	You could tell,
A:	you know you put your stuff where it's,
A:	Yeah.
A:	That would drive, that would, that
B:	It would drive, it drove me batty for a while.
A:	Really.
B:	Yeah,
B:	well, I worked a second shift
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and everybody else in my area worked first shift
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and our shifts overlapped
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	so I would come in,
B:	and there would be people sitting at my desk, working,
B:	and I'm wondering, you know, um, what is this,
B:	it's my vitamins,
B:	I wonder, what is, you know, yeah, what is,
B:	why are they working at my desk,
B:	and can I have it back.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Can I have it back soon, maybe.
A:	Then you start missing stuff,
A:	and.
B:	Oh, yeah,
B:	no mommy is going to take the vitamins,
B:	I'm sorry,
B:	I have
A:	That's okay.
A:	See that would, that would make me really mad,
A:	because you can always tell when someone's touched your stuff,
A:	just because,
A:	I mean, I know I have everything like a certain way
A:	and you know how it looks and everything.
B:	Oh, yeah.
B:	Well, you know how you left it the day before.
A:	Uh-huh. child_talking
A:	That would bother me, definitely.
B:	Oh, yeah,
B:	so, that's, child_talking
B:	yeah,
B:	I agree,
B:	it's, it's pretty tough that way,
B:	and, I know, even like with your school books and papers.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Do you miss your papers sometimes?
A:	See,
A:	yeah.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	You know.
A:	That's the only thing I can really think about being an invasion of privacy, like something every day, though.
B:	Yeah,
B:	well, actually I do know,
B:	and I have used it once
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and it, it really is an invasion of privacy,
B:	but in the library there's a book that you can find out what people's phone numbers are by where they live, their street address.
A:	Oh, really?
B:	Yeah.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And that,
B:	I mean, I've, I've used it once,
B:	All right,
B:	well do you play any musical instruments or,
A:	No,
A:	I don't play any.
A:	I used to.
B:	Oh well,
A:	I think everybody took piano lessons
A:	so,
B:	Everybody,
B:	sure.
B:	I, I started when I was in, uh, third grade,
B:	and I've, I still play the piano as of today.
A:	Do you?
B:	Yes,
B:	I do.
A:	I started,
A:	I think I was in the fifth grade
A:	and I played it for maybe three months
B:	But, then, again, I was also in, uh, the marching band.
B:	I played the drums,
B:	I played the clarinet,
B:	I played the trumpet.
A:	Wow
B:	Uh, you know, whatever
B:	and so I, I still sing,
B:	and I sing in the choir today
B:	so,
A:	All right
B:	I I enjoy the music,
B:	it gives me an out.
A:	Yeah.
B:	It always sounds like,
B:	for my playing the piano when I was depressed and didn't have anything else to do and there was no one to play with I could always go play with the piano, you know.
A:	True
B:	So, how long did you play?
A:	Only for about three months.
B:	Three months.
A:	Yeah,
A:	me and my brother both took the classes
A:	and we got pretty bored quick
B:	I was going to say, you got as far as the, uh, chop sticks, huh.
A:	Um, well, I could play, uh, the wood chuck song.
B:	Oh, the wood chuck song
A:	And I still can to this date.
B:	And your mother's saying, and although, the money that we spent for those piano lessons this is all we got was the wood chuck song
A:	Yeah.
A:	Yep,
A:	they went out and bought us a piano
A:	and for three months
B:	Oh, bless your heart.
B:	Did you ever, did you ever just bang on it or do anything with it at all.
A:	Oh, yeah,
A:	any time I got bored
B:	Oh, okay,
B:	but I mean, can you play anything on it, other than wood chuck song?
A:	No.
B:	No.
A:	And Jaws,
A:	but I think everybody can.
B:	Okay.
B:	I I, I can still read music if I'm lucky
B:	because I,
B:	if I work real hard I can still barely read the music,
B:	but, see, I played the piano from the third grade all the way through high school,
A:	Yeah.
B:	so
A:	Yeah.
B:	I played uh, concertos and other stuff
B:	but,
B:	I got to the point where I wasn't really reading music, I was memorizing music,
B:	so because of that, I can't read music as well as I used to,
B:	but anyway,
A:	Yeah.
B:	but I enjoy it, though.
B:	I find it to be a good out
B:	and I still enjoy the marching band
B:	and I still enjoy, uh, singing in the choir
B:	so,
A:	Do you sing at choir at your church?
B:	Yes,
B:	I do.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Yes,
B:	I do.
B:	That's,
B:	in fact, that's about the only musical thing that I still do is sing in the choir.
A:	Yeah.
A:	I tried out for choir when I was, think, in the seventh grade
A:	and they wouldn't let me in.
A:	So, I never tried again.
B:	Well, I sing in the choir,
B:	I do know if they want me to or not,
B:	but at least I do sing in it
A:	Yeah,
B:	That's pretty good.
B:	Well,
A:	I never really learned the music or anything.
A:	I never learned,
A:	I got right to where I was figuring out where all the keys were on the piano
A:	and that's about when I quit.
B:	I was at,
B:	I actually went to the University of Texas at one time thinking that I would, be a musician.
B:	I wanted to be a high school band director.
A:	Yeah.
B:	But after one semester of that, I said no, no,
B:	this isn't for me.
B:	enjoy it, but not for profession, no.
A:	Yeah.
B:	And besides that I kind of learned I wasn't really that good
B:	I gave up.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Course, my mom thought I was,
B:	but, uh, you know,
A:	Of course,
A:	parents always do.
B:	Oh, yeah,
B:	so,
A:	They're nice that way.
B:	Yes.
B:	Well, what else can we uh, talk about,
B:	uh,
A:	Uh, well, I don't,
A:	so you listen to kind of church music, gospel?
B:	No,
B:	no,
B:	I, I listen to K V I L.
A:	Oh, yeah?
B:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah.
B:	So I listen to the radio,
B:	I like the pop music.
A:	Oh, yeah.
B:	I like people like Neil Diamond and all, all the folks that you're not supposed to like,
B:	but that's who I go for
A:	Oh, yeah,
A:	the jeezer music as I call it.
B:	Oh, the jeezer music.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Oh, okay,
B:	well,
A:	My boss listens to that.
A:	We listen to ninety-seven point nine
A:	and that's his station, so I call it the jeezer music.
B:	Okay,
B:	now what kind of music do you listen to?
A:	Well, I listen to like ninety-seven point one, you know, more,
B:	What what is that?
A:	It's more, uh,
A:	I don't know how to explain it,
A:	kind of pop, you know, rock.
B:	Rock.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Hard rock?
A:	Well, not hard
B:	Not hard rock.
A:	Just kind of,
B:	Not like the eagle.
A:	Huh?
B:	Is that the eagle?
A:	Yeah.
B:	Okay,
B:	I know, I know what the eagle is.
A:	It's not too hard,
A:	it's,
B:	That's not too hard.
A:	You know.
A:	But it's not enough to put you to sleep
B:	True,
B:	true.
A:	Which some of the songs on K V I L can.
B:	Well, course, see, I listen to K V I L for the contests.
B:	I mean
A:	Oh, yeah,
A:	got the bumper sticker, too?
B:	Oh, yes,
B:	oh, yes.
B:	You can't drive a car without bumper sticker
B:	and you know they're going to call you up.
A:	Someday.
B:	Yeah
B:	Well, listen, I've enjoyed talking.
B:	I, I'm sure that the switchboard will probably give us that sign off message very shortly anyway.
A:	Okay.
B:	I appreciate it.
A:	Okay.
B:	Catch you later.
A:	Bye-bye.
B:	Bye-bye.
B:	Okay
A:	Okay
B:	Have you done this very long?
A:	Uh, well, yeah,
A:	for the last, uh, couple of months.
B:	Yeah,
B:	that's the same with us.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Well, what kind of car would you buy?
A:	Well, it's kind of hard to say,
A:	uh, because I don't think we're going to buy another car for about three years.
A:	We just bought, uh, a car, uh, last year and then bought one in eighty-nine
B:	Oh, okay.
A:	and, uh,
A:	wait a minute,
A:	we bought one in ninety.
A:	We've got three cars, of all things.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	So, uh, probably we'll be in at least a midsize, four door sedan.
B:	Okay.
B:	What kind do you have now?
A:	Uh, we have a, a Mazda nine twenty nine and a Ford Crown Victoria and a little two seater C R X.
B:	Oh, okay.
A:	Uh, it's rather difficult to, to project what kind of, uh,
A:	we'd, look, always look into, uh, consumer reports to see what kind of, uh, report, or, uh, repair records that the various cars have
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and then, of course, we look into the prices.
B:	Yeah.
A:	And, uh, uh, we're not adverse to buying along in the summer when, when the cars could get to be discounted
A:	because we keep, we've begun to keep them, uh, a longer period of time.
A:	Uh, I traded off an eighty-two Oldsmobile for the eighty-nine Mazda.
B:	Oh, uh-huh.
A:	So, uh,
B:	And did you find that you like the foreign cars better than the domestic?
A:	Uh, yeah,
A:	yeah.
A:	We, we've had thirty some odd cars in our married life,
A:	and, uh, we, we've had a good many foreign cars.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And, uh, they, they, uh,
A:	I've been extremely,
A:	we've had three Mazdas.
A:	We've been extremely pleased with our Mazdas.
B:	Oh, really?
A:	Yeah.
B:	We've always bought American made cars, mostly Oldsmobiles.
A:	Yeah,
A:	well, we, we've had, uh,
A:	let's see,
A:	we had, uh, we had a, uh,
A:	let me think.
A:	ause We had a fifty-three
A:	and a, uh, we had, uh, two fifty-threes which is a long thirty minute story
A:	Uh, and we had a sixty-five
A:	and then we had this eighty-two.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	So we, we really can't complain about Oldsmobiles, really.
B:	Yeah,
B:	we've been real pleased with ours.
B:	I think we've had, one, two, three
A:	Yeah.
B:	and most,
B:	we have a Cutlass, we still have a Cutlass Supreme which is like, a seventy-seven.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Then we have a Cutlass Sierra
B:	and we've had the ninety-eight.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	So,
B:	but I don't know,
B:	we'll, we're going to be in the market for a car, probably in the next year
B:	and the financing is always something we consider, you know, the four percent or when they give good financing through the, the motor company.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	But, I don't know what we're going to buy.
B:	I always thought I would like to try a foreign made car,
B:	but, boy, with all the auto workers being laid off, makes me feel guilty
A:	Well
B:	So,
A:	uh, my son over in Shreveport, uh, sold Porsches, Audis, Mazdas and Volkswagons for ten years
A:	and that was one of the deciding factors in getting the Mazdas.
B:	Oh.
A:	Uh, so, uh, the first foreign car that we had was a, a seventy-seven M G, M G B
B:	Oh the,
A:	Was British racing green, with real wire wheels and a hard top and a soft top.
B:	Ooh, boy.
A:	And, uh, I drove it mostly.
B:	I'll bet it was hard to part with that.
A:	And,
A:	Yeah,
A:	it really was.
A:	My husband was in the Air Force
A:	and we got transferred to Okinawa.
B:	Oh.
A:	So, uh, we had to sell it.
A:	which really tore me up
B:	Oh, yeah.
A:	Because, uh, it, it it was great fun.
A:	And then, uh, when we got to Okinawa, well, we bought a second hand,
A:	we, uh, we decided that, uh,
A:	we had this, uh, sixty-five Oldsmobile
A:	and it, and it was just too big,
A:	so we, we sold it to a fellow who was coming back to the States
A:	and we got a little Fiat, uh, and a, and the little, uh, forty horse power Mazda, four door sedan.
B:	Oh.
A:	So what do you think about caring for older folks Dale?
B:	Well, I think, uh the elderly is a really neat population to care for.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	They've got a lot of special needs
B:	and at the same time, uh, the majority of them don't want to give up the independence that they have.
A:	Right,
A:	very definitely.
B:	And so you've got a real balance to make there.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	What about you?
A:	Well, I'm thinking about it more in terms of my parents that are starting to get old.
A:	They aren't really that old,
A:	but they are, sort of wearing out.
A:	My mamma is a dialysis patient
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	and she is only about sixty-four,
A:	but she's had some pretty close calls
A:	and my daddy has to drive her to dialysis now
A:	and so she's phasing out ounds like
A:	and, but she's also a very, very, very independent person and doesn't like having having people, uh, not being able to do things for herself when she wants to
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	uh, I know they certainly don't want to be in a nursing home,
A:	but my daddy keeps talking about it.
A:	I don't,
A:	I couldn't possibly, couldn't never see him in a nursing home.
B:	ery faint.
A:	And my grand daddy also doesn't like, wouldn't want to be in a nursing home.
A:	He's ninety, I think right on ninety right now
B:	Oh really.
A:	and he's living by himself.
A:	My grand mamma died a couple of years ago
B:	Oh, okay.
A:	so but, he's, you know,
A:	as long as you can have the families take care of the people, I'd like to see them stay at home.
B:	Yeah,
B:	but it gets hard.
B:	My, my grandmother is in her mid eighties
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and she's, uh, suffering from, uh, well, uh, progressive Alzheimer's Disease
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	so she doesn't remember anybody
A:	Right.
B:	and, uh, she remembers things,
B:	but they are things back whenever she was real young
A:	Right.
B:	and so, with,
B:	she was living by herself
B:	but my, uh, uncle has moved in with her to take care of her
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and it's creating a lot of problems.
A:	Right,
A:	especially for your uncle I bet.
B:	Oh yes.
B:	Yes.
A:	Now a friend of mine who was studying social work here in Philadelphia worked for an adult day care program for mostly for patient's with Alzheimer.
A:	Do they have anything like that in Dallas.
B:	In Dallas,
B:	uh, yeah.
B:	I've, I've heard of several things
B:	and they are really neat programs to be able to do if you can link up with them,
B:	but sometimes it's hard to either find the connections to get them in or, uh, to be able to get them there for the day program and pick them up.
A:	Right.
A:	So they are pretty limited.
B:	Right.
A:	Oh, another interesting thing,
A:	another good friend of mine who got her degree in social gerontology well had a job for a while where she went around to to folks and had them, sort of kicked them in the pants to make them take good care of their older relatives. To make sure that they would take care of their responsibilities.
B:	Oh really.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	I don't think that was mainly with Alzheimer's patients, but just patients, people in general who were not as independent as they use to be.
B:	Uh-huh,
B:	uh-huh.
B:	Well, it, it's, it's a really, day care programs are really neat, you know
B:	and if the, if the people are able and and can get up and move and everything like that, that is one of the best things to do,
B:	but I think the hardest thing to do is whenever you've got a person who's mentally very alert and active and their body just hasn't kept up with them
A:	Uh-huh ery faint.
A:	Right.
B:	and I think that's in a way it's more, some, an area where some of the day care, uh, programs have left off
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	because you really kind of have to be a little bit mobile to be able to do those.
A:	Right
A:	to, uh, get there and to participate in the activities.
B:	Right.
B:	Cause I know, there's one not too far from from me here in Dallas.
B:	Uh, and they have ceramics and pottery and needle work and sports.
A:	Right.
A:	Right.
B:	But if your vision is gone and you have arthritis real badly,
A:	That's true.
A:	You can't play those things.
B:	Yeah,
B:	you can't do it.
A:	But you can sing songs and, uh and tell stories about the old times.
B:	Well, that's true.
A:	I guess, you know, you were talking about your,
A:	was it your grand mother that was having Alzheimer uh, being able to tell old stories.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	You can perhaps get a group of people that aren't too far along with Alzheimer talking about the old times and enjoying it themselves that way.
B:	And they love to recollect.
B:	I mean they just, you know,
B:	and they will just go on and on with these stories
B:	and they have such a memory.
A:	Do they like to listen to other people recollect though?
B:	My grandmother doesn't
B:	She, she wants to to tell you about her story over again
B:	so
A:	Right.
B:	which is fine, you know,
B:	so,
A:	Well, that is good because we,
A:	Um, so what do you think?
B:	Um,
B:	I lived, I lived in Sweden for two years.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And in Sweden they have socialized medicine.
B:	And so I saw some of the good
B:	and also I saw some of the bad that results from such a program.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Uh, some of the, some of the good obviously that nobody has to worry about health care.
A:	Right.
B:	So it's a very, it's a very, uh, comfortable,
B:	I mean our people are very comfortable in the sense that, you know, there's no medical emergency that's going to make you destitute for life.
A:	Right.
B:	Um, the bad was more apparent I think at least for me
B:	because I think it affected people's lives on, in a way that you could see.
B:	One, one thing that I noticed is it's very, very convenient to be alcoholic in Sweden.
A:	Oh, really?
B:	Because it's treated as a disease.
B:	Now I don't know if that necessarily has to be part of socialized medicine,
B:	and so there was very little incentive for people to get out of that.
A:	Huh.
B:	Also, um, another thing that, that I noticed that was very strange,
B:	I was, uh, I would go down all these, uh, uh,
B:	I remember this one row of houses
B:	and they were, uh, row houses or townhouses, all connected together so it was like lower middle-class housing.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Well, it would be lower middle-class housing here.
B:	It's probably middle-class housing there.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Um, and there was a taxi driver that lived in one of these
B:	and there was a doctor that lived in one of these.
B:	The one guy was a doctor
B:	and one was a taxi driver,
B:	and so their, their incomes were about the same.
A:	Huh.
B:	Whereas here, there is a great incentive to be a doctor because there's a great financial reward.
A:	Right.
B:	And that, that didn't exist in Sweden.
A:	Right.
B:	And, uh, overall I their, their health care suffered fair amount from just the fact that the doctor salaries were lower
B:	and it was, it was less professional
B:	and it was treated more, like a, like a taxi driver type job, then a, then a doctor type job.
A:	Yeah.
A:	that is, uh, that is something I've heard.
A:	Uh, I had a friend, uh, that I worked with that was from Sweden
A:	and that was, uh,
A:	probably the, the major concern I have is that, you know, we are leading in the technology realm of, of medicine just because it is such a great incentive to, to get into, uh, the medical field,
A:	but at the same time it's real hard.
A:	I mean my husband works for a company that provides insurance
A:	and so, you know, I'm real, you know,
A:	it's like well, you know, you know,
A:	there's got to be better ways, you know, to do some things
A:	but, you know, I hate to, uh,
A:	the, the competition, in a lot of ways is, is wonderful just because you can choose your doctor
A:	and, and, uh, they have to compete to be, to be good and to be knowledgeable.
A:	But at the same time, there's a, you know, they're regulating themselves
A:	and, and the hospitals are charging just enormous amounts for products that they don't have to pay very much for.
A:	My, I have a brother who's a vet
A:	and for something that he can get, you know, wholesale
A:	and I'm sure they can get a lot cheaper because they, they, hospitals buy in such a bulk rate, um
B:	Right.
A:	you know, they could charge you twenty dollars for a dollar fifty item
A:	and that's ridiculous.
A:	And I don't think that is, that is, uh, abnormal in any means to be doing things like that.
A:	And,
B:	You don't think it's abnormal?
A:	I don't think it's abnormal for hospitals to be doing that at all
B:	Oh, I see.
B:	You're not saying it's right,
B:	you're just saying it's common.
A:	yeah.
A:	And so it's, I think, to me I think, uh, something that's going to help our medical, uh, arena is for, um,
A:	and I don't know how to, I don't know how to do this
A:	but I think people are too lawsuit happy.
A:	And I mean things will happen
A:	and, and you've got to, uh, keep up
A:	or you've got to realize that, you know, it is just men or women that are, that are making, um, decisions
A:	and they will make mistakes
A:	and you know, if people, you know,
A:	there are some people that I'm sure make mistakes because they just don't keep on top of it,
A:	but there are other things that just happen that you can't, you know, you can't say, you know, well, if you had just done this, you know, things would have done differently,
A:	and, um, I don't know.
A:	I, I think the fact that malpractice has gone up I think has raised our prices just dramatically. Um, in the, in the last number of years
B:	Yes.
A:	and I think that's something that if, if they could work on the cause of that and,
A:	it's, uh,
A:	I'll start off here.
A:	Uh, I don't know.
A:	I get, probably, most of my information either from the newspaper or from C N N.
A:	Uh, I like C N N because it, uh, you know, repeats it,
A:	well HEADLINE NEWS repeats every half hour
A:	but it makes it really convenient cause I keep a rather hectic schedule
B:	Right,
B:	yeah.
A:	and, uh,
A:	but the newspaper provides a little bit of depth that you can't really get from,
B:	Yeah.
B:	I, I think I'd agree.
B:	A, a similar method of getting the news with me too.
B:	It's, uh, uh, C N N has been a welcome addition to the T V scene here in the, last, uh, number of years.
B:	Uh, prior to cable, you know, you didn't get much news off of normal, uh, television broadcasts.
A:	Right.
B:	Uh, just usually pretty local in, in nature
B:	and, and I like, uh, C N N because you get some world, world events too uh, which is not too common on, on the other format, newspapers, and so forth.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Right.
A:	Yeah.
A:	I know, the,
A:	my only major objection is that, uh, I don't think American media spends enough, uh, attention on, on our closest neighbors like Mexico and Canada.
A:	Uh,
B:	That, that's true, you know.
B:	You hardly ever see, uh, headline articles about the, uh, either the economics or, or other news events going on in either of those countries.
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Uh, whereas if you pick up a, a European paper, you know, uh, it, all the surrounding countries, Soviet Union, and everything has, uh, major news, uh, articles in them.
A:	Right.
A:	Yeah.
A:	I mean, you know, Canada has gone through a lot of problems now with, with Quebec and, and everything
A:	and, uh, it's amazing that,
A:	you know, I, I listen to D C area and the WASHINGTON POST, you know,
A:	I mean the most they'll give it is the back of the A section.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Uh, you know.
B:	I'm, I'm currently living in Dallas
B:	and it, it won't even give it the back section <laughter>.
B:	You just, never see, you just never see anything about it,
B:	uh, which is a shame because you go to other countries, uh,
B:	and, and they carry quite a bit about the U S on the other hand.
B:	And if you go up to, uh, Canada, those people are usually pretty, uh, familiar with the politics going on and and the news U S
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and we're pretty, uh, limited in our understanding of, of leaders up in Canada or Mexico.
A:	Yeah,
A:	definitely.
B:	You just don't know what's going on.
A:	Yeah.
B:	I'd, I,
B:	every once in awhile, I have to travel overseas
B:	and lately I've taken the, taken a little shortwave radio, uh, around and picking up the B B C
B:	and it's sort of like, uh, a C N N too.
B:	You you can tune into some stations
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and you get some, like thirty minute summaries of, of news events.
B:	Uh, I occasionally get into some of the middle eastern, uh, area
B:	and that's the only way you can tell what's going on at all <laughter>.
B:	There's not much in the way of television in some of those places.
A:	Right.
B:	Uh, but that's a good point about, about the neighboring countries.
B:	I hadn't really thought about it
B:	but I guess you don't think about it cause you don't hear it.
A:	Right.
A:	Exactly.
A:	Yeah.
A:	I, uh, spent this past summer up in Canada.
A:	Uh, well part of it, touring.
A:	And, uh, you know, I was amazed cause I'd pick up a local paper and I'd read about all of these, you know, really interesting things going on.
A:	There's some serious talk about whether there's actually going to be a, a Canada, you know, in the next five years. You know, because of the problems with Quebec
B:	Yeah.
A:	and I had never heard any of that before.
B:	Yeah,
B:	you know, there was, a, a,
B:	what is it called,
B:	is it Meech Lake Accord?
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Or, or, that's just something, uh, I'd say ninety percent of the people here would never have heard of
B:	and I think that I heard of it about the first time when I was up in Calgary a couple of years ago and, you know, picked up a, a paper and started reading a little bit more detail about it.
B:	And, and came
B:	it was a big thing going on there
B:	and I came back here
B:	and nothing in the papers.
A:	Right,
A:	right.
B:	I didn't see a thing about it.
B:	So it's, uh, we've got a long ways to go, I guess.
B:	It's improved.
B:	And like I say, with C N N and, and, uh, the cable news.
B:	Even, even there's, uh, uh,
B:	it's it's semireligious in some respects.
B:	But what is it?
B:	It's, uh, I mean it's news is not, not that way,
B:	uh, oh, I'm trying to think of the channel.
B:	The, the CHRISTIAN SCIENCE MONITOR.
A:	Oh, yeah.
B:	Uh, I, it surprised me.
B:	I've caught it a few times
B:	and they, they do some pretty good news.
B:	Uh, seemingly unbiased news broadcasts.
B:	Uh uh, the, the title of the network is sort of surprising.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	You'd think it would carry mostly religious
B:	but it, it doesn't seem to.
B:	So I'll flip through and listen to it once in awhile too, uh, and catch something maybe a little different than, than C N N might be covering.
B:	Uh, some more interest type topics in, in other countries.
B:	But it's kind of world, world, uh, network too.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Uh, I, I guess I've never seen the T V show.
A:	I used to get the, uh,
A:	A, uh, Golden Retriever.
B:	Ooh, that's one of my favorite kinds of dogs.
A:	Yeah.
A:	Is it really?
B:	How long have you had it?
A:	We've had him for,
A:	let's see, he just had his fourth birthday.
B:	Fourth birthday.
A:	Yeah,
A:	and we got him when he was about eight weeks old
A:	and, uh, he's pretty okay,
A:	we like him.
B:	Does he shed a lot?
A:	He does.
A:	That's the one thing we don't like about him.
A:	He'd probably look pretty funny if we did that.
B:	How much does he weigh now?
A:	He, actually, he just went to the vet yesterday to get his shots and everything,
A:	and they put him on the scale
A:	and he's up to ninety four now.
B:	Oh.
A:	But he's not a real, he's not a real tall, uh, dog for a Golden Retriever.
A:	He's kind of stocky, shorter and stockier.
B:	Um.
A:	But,
B:	Is he good with family?
A:	He is.
A:	It's, uh, just me and my wife
A:	and, uh, he's kind of our temporary substitute for having kids.
A:	We treat him like our kid right now so he's spoiled rotten.
B:	Yeah,
B:	I can understand that
A:	Because I,
A:	Get away with that a little bit more with pets than you can with kids
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	How about you?
B:	Well, we have a cat who's also about four years old.
A:	Oh.
B:	And he's our spoiled child right now, too
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And he also sheds a lot.
A:	Yeah.
B:	But, we, uh, we hope to get a Golden Retriever someday.
B:	But we figure we'll get the kids and then the, the dog
A:	That's probably a good idea.
A:	They're good though.
A:	Uh, have you ever had a Retriever before?
B:	No,
B:	but my husband had one when he was growing up.
A:	Because I, I find that they're good around other animals like cats and other dogs.
A:	They don't tend to get real jealous or territorial.
A:	They like to play.
B:	Um.
A:	Especially with the kids.
A:	They love to play with kids.
B:	Is, is your dog an inside and outdoors?
A:	No,
A:	he's pretty much an inside dog.
B:	Um.
A:	He stays in.
A:	We, we're kind of in a, not a real busy neighborhood, but more so than I'd want him to be out too much
A:	and he doesn't like it if we tie him outside.
B:	Oh, really?
A:	He's really a wimp.
A:	And when it comes to being alone,
A:	uh, now if you give him the freedom to walk around and go wherever he wants, he likes that,
A:	but he does not like to be tied outside.
A:	He'll, he'll just bark and bark and bark.
B:	Um, when he gets outside, does, in, does he run away and then eventually come back?
A:	No,
A:	he's, uh, taken to the training pretty well
A:	and, uh, he knows where our yard is
A:	and we have a pretty small yard,
A:	but he seems to know the boundaries.
B:	Um.
A:	And he usually is good about staying within them,
A:	although our next door neighbors have a dog, too
A:	and, uh, she, she is good friends with my dog.
B:	Oh, yeah?
A:	And so he often gets to smelling her scent and will go over there to sniff around and stuff
A:	but, he's pretty good.
A:	He stays out of the street
A:	and, uh, if I catch him I call him
A:	and he comes back.
A:	So he, he's pretty good about taking to commands and and things.
B:	Um.
B:	Did you bring him to a doggy obedience school or just train him on your own
A:	No
A:	we never did.
B:	and,
A:	I, I trained him on my own
A:	and, uh, this is the first dog I've had all my own as an adult.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	We've had kid, or we've had dogs when I was a kid,
A:	but this, this is the first one that I, uh, took in,
A:	so I wasn't sure if I'd be able to get it all right the first time,
A:	but, uh, he, he seems to have picked it up pretty well.
A:	I never really to hit him or anything.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Just, you know firm tone of voice and those sorts of things.
B:	Huh.
B:	Really?
A:	I, I see other people out there
A:	and they hit their dogs and try to,
A:	and, and those horrible collars that they put on them with invisible fencing,
A:	least I,
B:	Invisible what?
A:	Invisible fencing,
A:	have you heard of that?
B:	No,
B:	what is that?
A:	It's, uh, it's a system you can put in your yard where you bury these little, uh, transducers or emitters in your yard at the perimeter
B:	Oh.
A:	and then they wear a collar with a special little attachment on it
A:	and if they get too close to that perimeter, it it zaps them.
B:	Oh.
B:	Boy.
A:	Yeah
B:	I'd be afraid to walk around if I was that dog
A:	Yeah,
A:	well, a friend of mine at work here said that he tried it with his dog
A:	and he wanted to see what he was subjecting his dog to
A:	so he held on to the collar
A:	and he walked out to the perimeter.
A:	He said it was a good jolt.
B:	Oh, really?
A:	Yeah,
A:	and so, I, I don't take too well to, to those sorts of training techniques.
B:	Um.
A:	I don't think they're always necessary.
A:	If you put enough patience into,
B:	Yeah,
B:	just be consistent and diligent with it
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and, um,
A:	It's, uh, is your cat an indoor cat or an outdoor cat?
B:	Yeah
B:	he's indoor and all declawed because I know the, uh, average life span of an outdoor cat is eighteen months.
A:	Somebody just told me that
B:	Yeah.
A:	because of the leukemia?
B:	Yeah,
B:	that and also just, uh, getting hit, I guess, or getting beat up.
B:	And the average life span of an indoor cat is eighteen years
A:	Wow.
B:	So,
A:	Quite a difference.
B:	Yeah.
A:	What, uh, what kind of climate do you have?
B:	Well, uh, it's, we just moved recently
B:	so now we're in the, uh, Dallas area
B:	and it's very very nice
A:	Oh.
B:	and,
A:	The only experience I have,
A:	I don't have any children
A:	but I've, uh, I was a baby-sitter in high school.
A:	And then, just recently, after we were married, I baby-sat for a dentist while she worked.
A:	And I just, uh ...
B:	<talking> Yeah.
B:	That's the only thing I've ever done also, is baby-sit.
A:	Is it? ery faint.
B:	But, uh, I've heard people that I work with talk about, you know, child care.
B:	Especially, I guess it's even harder on single mothers.
A:	Oh, yeah.
A:	The expense.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Having to pick up the kid by, you know, six o'clock
B:	or it's five dollars for every minute you're late. And stuff like that
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Which is understandable.
B:	I mean, these people can't, you know, stay there till eight o'clock because somebody has to work late
A:	Just sit around
A:	That that's true.
B:	but
A:	See the lady I did it for,
A:	that's why she picked me is because I would go to her house so she wouldn't have to get her little girl up.
A:	So she could sleep in.
A:	And, uh, then she could be at home
A:	and then I'd bring her to my house for a couple of hours if I wanted too or whatever.
A:	But, uh, she paid, I think it was two or, I think it was about two fifty, three dollars a hour
A:	and by the time I paid taxes on it, it, I was getting like eighty cents
A:	and that wasn't counting food or gas or anything.
B:	Oh, no.
B:	Yeah.
B:	It's hardly worth your time.
A:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
B:	That's pretty bad.
B:	The only time I baby-sat was in high school
B:	and it, you know,
B:	of course you don't
B:	I didn't pay taxes on that,
B:	so.
A:	Right.
B:	It was easy, you know, go over to some, uh,
B:	it was these people that lived in our neighborhood
B:	and I'd just go over there.
B:	Every Thursday night, they went to the theater.
B:	They had permanent tickets
B:	and they'd give me,
B:	it was supposed to be two dollars an hour for two kids,
B:	but they would usually give me like five dollars more at the end of the night.
A:	Oh, wow.
B:	And, I mean, they'd, you know,
B:	it was great.
B:	I'd go over there
B:	and there would be like, uh, you know, there's, we have these videos over here.
B:	Watch, whatever you want.
B:	And there's some Oreos in the, in the cupboard.
B:	And there's some Coke
B:	and you know, just help yourself to anything.
B:	So it was, it was, you know, the best,
A:	Wow.
B:	that was a long time ago
B:	and that was only for a few years.
B:	Just once a week.
A:	Yeah.
B:	But I don't know.
A:	I think people that treat their baby-sitters like that get a lot better baby-sitters.
B:	Oh, yeah.
B:	That's true.
A:	And they stick around for longer.
A:	Because I mean after I figured out I was getting eighty cents an hour, I said bag it.
A:	And I quit you know.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I was just like but I'm wasting my time.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I really liked the little girl and everything
A:	but I thought ...
B:	She does take up,
B:	and they do take up a lot of your time.
B:	That ...
A:	Yeah.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I ...
B:	They're very demanding
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Well, and she was really spoiled.
A:	They didn't make her eat anything she didn't want or anything.
A:	So, basically, they fed her cookies for breakfast and lunch.
A:	And the mom was a dentist
A:	and I was just like, we've got to quit this.
A:	But I don't want to make her eat something she doesn't want to eat
B:	Oh, shoot.
B:	My mom would be like, uh eat it or don't eat anything.
A:	Eat this or <laughter>.
B:	That's right.
A:	So, I can see the concerns on what different people want.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Because some,
A:	I mean, you know, if I was setting up a daycare, there would be so many needs you would have to customize your service to.
B:	Yeah.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	Cause some parents won't put up anything. Where others would.
B:	I think,
B:	yeah,
B:	I think the best way to go would just be to, to be able to do it out of your basement.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And just have like at the most, like ten kids.
B:	And all from maybe people that you know type of thing.
A:	No.
B:	Instead of trying actually to set up a daycare where you don't know the people coming in and ...
A:	That's true.
A:	I, I'd love to do it.
A:	But I just don't trust people now.
A:	There's too many lawsuits.
B:	Yeah.
A:	I just, I think it's a bigger risk than ...
B:	More than what it's worth?
A:	Yeah.
B:	Yeah.
A:	It would scare me.
A:	With,
A:	I don't know,
A:	cause I'm sure some of them have good reason to sue
A:	but I think a lot of them are just, you know, they're negligent
A:	and they get happy about money
B:	Yeah.
B:	Well, yeah.
B:	That's,
B:	yeah,
B:	exactly.
B:	When you have like a Kindercare or something set up and when they get greedy or whatever, that's when they have maybe one assistant to twenty kids or something
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Oh, yeah.
B:	And that's just, you know,
B:	you can't watch that many little kids getting into things at one time
A:	That's impossible.
B:	You know, you never know what they're going to get into.
A:	I have a girlfriend that works at a daycare
A:	and she takes her little girl with her
A:	and, I mean, she told me about half the people that they hire
A:	and half of them she'd like to turn them into the state
A:	And that's the people that are working there, you know.
A:	And then she would like to turn in half of the parents that drop their kids off because of the condition the kids are in, you know.
B:	Oh, that's horrible.
A:	Like they'll be in the same clothes they were the day before, the same diaper.
B:	Huh.
A:	You know, just awful things.
A:	And so I don't know.
A:	I don't have kids
A:	but I always think man I just don't know if I could trust anybody.
A:	I mean, you just don't know.
B:	Yeah.
B:	That's
B:	yeah,
B:	that's a hard thing about it.
B:	If, I mean, I I can't foresee myself getting married
B:	but if, you know, if I ever wanted to have a kid, how could I work.
B:	I mean, I don't think I could trust somebody with my kid either.
B:	Unless it was a friend that, you know, did it in ounds like an airplane their house that I knew well.
A:	Oh, yeah.
A:	That's true.
A:	Yeah.
B:	I just, I couldn't do it I don't think.
A:	It would just rip me apart, I think
A:	I don't know.
B:	Yeah.
A:	Just not knowing.
B:	Yeah,
B:	just besides the fact that, you know, your, when your child gets out of school at three o'clock and then has to wait.
A:	What do you usually wear to,
B:	Well, let's see.
B:	It turns out that, uh,
B:	I work at TEKTRONIX
B:	and it's a very, uh, low key place as far as dress goes.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	You just wear, uh,
B:	let's see.
B:	When I first came here, I wore suits
B:	but after a while I got, uh, found out that that wasn't all that important.
B:	I'm an engineer.
A:	Oh, I see.
B:	And, uh, so, I get to wear just, uh, how shall I say it, uh, walking shoes as opposed to dress shoes and well walking, how shall I say it, kind of like Avia, uh, walking shoes, uh,
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	Well, that's nice comfortable stuff.
B:	Yes.
B:	Open shirt, open at the neck, you know, no tie.
A:	Wow.
B:	And, uh, just, uh, reasonable looking, how shall I say it, uh, sports clothes or some guys wear, some people even wear Levis.
A:	Wow.
A:	That's nice.
B:	Now, being from Philadelphia, I don't expect your dress code to be quite that relaxed, right?
A:	Well actually right now I'm a full time college student
A:	so my dress code is very, very (( )).
B:	Oh, okay.
A:	Yeah,
A:	I usually wear jeans and stuff to classes or shorts in the summertime.
A:	But over the summers I've had a job, internships with the newspaper.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And that's so,
A:	generally then I dress, you know, nicer.
A:	Usually nice summer slacks or more, sometimes skirts, stuff like that.
A:	So, then it's still, you know, the emphasis is on comfort a lot because it's a lot of walking and coming out of office
A:	but you still have to have a professional imagine kind of thing. To go out to meet people and interview people and stuff like that
B:	Yes.
A:	so.
B:	Yeah,
B:	well I, uh, I just recently applied for a different job in the company here
B:	and so I decided well I'd wear a suit.
A:	Oh, really.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	And it, it was very interesting,
B:	uh, like I said, most of the people at, at this company don't wear suits.
B:	Uh, most of the engineers and technical people are just very casual, almost the same clothes that, that you'd wear to school.
A:	Wow.
A:	That must be nice atmosphere then.
B:	Well, it has been.
B:	Although the new president and C E O of the company is from a much more formal eastern, uh, background.
A:	Oh.
B:	And so the result is that, uh,
B:	so anyway I wore this suit
B:	and I went over to, uh, uh, to one of the buildings that has a lot more of the financial people in it
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	and it, and I, I was almost converted because, uh, the effect of that suit on the way people reacted and responded to me as opposed to the,
B:	uh, just to kind of,
B:	how shall I say it,
B:	they know you're there
B:	but they don't
B:	uh, you don't,
B:	there's no notice at all.
B:	But when I wore a suit that day, uh, it was obvious that people didn't know whether I was a worker bee or a manager.
A:	Wow.
B:	So people, uh, how shall I say it, made a, made much more effort to notice you, acknowledge your presence, say hello and, uh, things like that,
B:	so.
A:	That's interesting.
A:	It's like a mini, little study there
B:	Yeah.
A:	That's really interesting.
B:	And so this dress for success thing, I think is, uh,
B:	by and large I've, I'm kind of, uh, convinced that, uh, by that, just that one, uh, uh, experience and then having talked to several other people that, that, uh, unless you're in a, an environment where they're going to make fun of, of, of better clothes, that better clothes always pay off.
A:	Right.
A:	Huh.
A:	That's interesting.
B:	Doesn't mean they have to be, uh,
B:	how shall I say it,
B:	they don't have to be the, the most, uh, the absolute best
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	but, uh, a little dressing a little bit above the standard, I think, would, uh, pay off
B:	so I'm in the process of telling my wife we got to go shopping for clothes again.
A:	<Laughter> That's neat,
A:	that's neat
B:	And, uh, I, I don't know,
B:	now I, I know eastern,
B:	now the other thing we do here, of course, is a single, not quite a single climate.
B:	We have, uh, we do have some snow in the wintertime
B:	and it can be quite warm in the summertime.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	Not hot like, uh,
B:	I lived in the midwest for a while.
A:	Oh.
B:	And I know that, uh, you know, it can be freezing cold in the wintertime, and hot and, uh, sticky in the summertime.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	We don't have that much.
B:	It's, uh, it's a very mild climate.
A:	Oh, well that's nice.
A:	That's good for the clothes budget, I would imagine.
B:	Yes,
B:	it is.
A:	Because here, gosh, we had, uh,
A:	the winter hasn't been bad this winter.
A:	It's, it it's only snowed maybe once or twice
A:	but it's been cold.
A:	Low twenties, let's say,
A:	and then the summer gets up to eighties, nineties
A:	so,
A:	You interested in woodworking?
B:	Yeah.
B:	Actually, I, uh, I guess I am
B:	Um, it just seems kind of funny that this is a topic of discussion.
B:	Uh, I do, uh, some, uh, woodworking myself
B:	Uh, in fact, I'm in the middle of a project right now making a bed for my son.
A:	Um. What kind of
B:	It's, uh,  It's, uh, it's, uh, plywood, uh, face, I guess.
A:	pine?
B:	But I cut it out in the shape of a crayon box
B:	and then I painted, uh, about eight different, uh, colors, uh, you know,
B:	the crayons that are sticking up, it will be the headboard
A:	Uh-huh.
A:	I guess he's young.
B:	and then,
B:	yes
B:	He's about five and a half years old.
A:	Oh, he'll be delighted.
B:	Oh, yeah.
B:	Uh-huh.
B:	Now I just have to finish it though.
B:	I got, uh, it got delayed for a little bit and, uh, because of work
B:	and now, uh, I've got to jump back in and finish the,
B:	because I've got it all cut out,
B:	it's all, uh,
B:	I've done most of the coloring
B:	but I've got to go a second layer with the yellow.
A:	Did you do it with a jigsaw
A:	or do you have powered, you know, a,
B:	Uh, yeah.
B:	Uh, I did, uh, jigsaw, uh, and the, uh, regular straight saw for some of it.
A:	Um.
B:	So yeah.
B:	to do the, uh, the turn cut.
B:	Uh, how about yourself?
A:	Well I'm, I am interested in woodworking.
A:	I don't have lots of tools.
A:	Our local schools have adult education in the evening
B:	Oh.
A:	uh, and I use their tools and, some of their guidance.
A:	I'm an artist.
B:	Oh, okay.
A:	And I'm very handy
A:	and, you know, if I touch it, it turns into something <laughter> us-, usually.
B:	That's great.
B:	What, what type of art do you focus on?
A:	I have a Master's degree
A:	and, and my projects had to do with acrylic painting,
A:	but I'm really interested in the crafts.
B:	Huh.
A:	I make stain glass.
A:	I've done some silver jewelry making
A:	and I kind of,
A:	once I get you know, really pretty good at something, I want to try something else
B:	Yeah.
B:	Kind of jack of all trades, master of none.
A:	Yeah,
A:	well no,
A:	actually, I get good enough to sell it or have people say oh wow,
A:	you didn't buy it,
A:	you made it.
B:	That's great!
A:	And then I, it's like well the thrill is gone
A:	so let's do something else.
B:	Right.
B:	You want to, uh, explore a new field
B:	or, or,
A:	Well, yeah,
A:	I, I'm signed up for a class in pottery making because I've never tried that yet
B:	Huh. So you have a M F A in, in what division of art?
A:	but,
A:	Well, I, I actually have a Masters of art
A:	and it's in art education.
B:	Oh, okay.
A:	So, I'm a licensed teacher
A:	but jobs being what they are, I substitute teach
B:	Yeah.
A:	and that way I have time for my kids too.
A:	And I've been fortunate that I can afford to work part-time.
A:	I don't know how long that's going to last
B:	Oh, yeah.
A:	And, uh, they're cutting back,
A:	so I don't go in all that often
A:	but I've been real interested in some of those cute country, country kind of things.
A:	Uh, I see stuff in craft galleries for five hundred dollars
A:	and I say, oh no
A:	and , and I go
A:	and I make it.
B:	Yeah.
A:	That's how I started jewelry making.
A:	I, I love to cook.
B:	Oh, that's great.
A:	And I saw a silver necklace that had these little teeny weeny silver spatulas and, and, and knife and, and a fork and all kinds of stuff
A:	and I went
A:	and I signed up for class because then again, you get, you know, get someone to guide you
A:	and you get the tools you don't feel like buying.
B:	Exactly.
A:	And I made a necklace that I saw in a gallery for three hundred twenty dollars
A:	It took me a lot of time
A:	but  it didn't,
B:	Oh, yeah.
A:	but if it cost me twenty dollars, you know,
A:	and then I,
B:	And your time,
B:	then you're that much farther ahead
A:	Yeah.
A:	Then I saw a, one of these country looking wood watermelons.
A:	It was a solid watermelon with a wedge cut out of it.
B:	Right.
B:	I've seen them
B:	and then the watermelon, the red with the, with the seeds painted in
B:	and,
A:	Oh, yeah.
A:	Uh-huh.
B:	That's neat.
A:	I went there,
A:	we have Home Depot out here.
A:	I don't know if you've heard of it.
A:	I went
A:	and I got two six foot inch thick boards turned into a watermelon.
B:	Yes.
B:	We have one.
A:	I had to cut into slabs and build up this big square and turn it on the lath
A:	and cutting that wedge out was no joke
B:	Huh.
B:	Oh, I'm, I'm sure.
A:	We did it on a, I had a, uh, I did it through Adult Ed again.
B:	A band saw?
B:	What?
A:	I did it through Adult Ed again.
B:	Uh-huh.
A:	And the teacher was one of these negative people,
A:	oh that's dangerous,
A:	we can't do that,
A:	we just can't do that.
A:	And I'm going well how about this way?
A:	I, I want to do that,
A:	that was the plan here
B:	Right.
A:	So we did get the wedge cut out by building some kind of a cradle for it.
B:	A cradle for it.
B:	Yeah,
B:	so you can steady it
B:	and then, you used a handsaw or a backsaw?
A:	Well, it, the instructions in the book I had said use a coping saw
A:	but there's no coping saw big enough to, for a fourteen inch wide watermelon <laughter> that
B:	Right,
B:	right.
A:	and he wanted me to do it by hand with a regular saw.
A:	I said I'm not that steady,
A:	it's not going to happen.
B:	Yeah.
A:	So we built a cradle for it
A:	and we got once it was turned, we got one one cut out on the table saw, on the radial saw,
A:	by getting the other one out without the slice now flying in your face was something you had to think about
B:	Right.
A:	So,
B:	Now did you cut a quarter wedge in this?
A:	Uh, I'd say it's about an eighth.
A:	You know
B:	Well, I, I'm envisioning, uh, uh, a a watermelon like a log
B:	and then, uh, what I've seen of this kind before is you have the, uh, the, uh,
B:	it's, uh,
B:	if you're looking at adding on you have,
A:	Up here in Rochester, uh, we're the second cleanest metropolitan city as far as air pollution.
A:	I think Grand Rapids was number one.
A:	Uh, we really don't have too much of a problem as far as, uh, industry since we're pretty technologically based as far as our industry in the city here.
A:	But we do have the same problem a lot of other areas up here in the northeast have
A:	and that is the effects of acid rain. coming basically from coal plants in Ohio and Illinois and Indiana.
B:	Right.
B:	Well, that's true.
B:	Actually down here we don't have a big problem with, uh, with air pollution.
B:	Mainly because we don't have anybody to to either side of us.
B:	Uh, which helps out a lot as far as that goes.
B:	I wouldn't even necessarily thought of that except when I lived up in Boston and up in, uh, you know,
B:	debates would come up up there in Massachusetts and, you know, in that area over, uh, air pollution
B:	and their attitude's, basically, well, prevailing ins, winds are to the east
B:	so why should we have to worry.
A:	Yeah.
A:	I've, I've, uh, was in Los Angeles once
A:	and that was quite a difference as far as pollution goes.
A:	I mean you couldn't really see that much
A:	Every once in a while we have these air inversions, the weather inversions
B:	Oh, yes
B:	nothing,
A:	and then it gets hazy around here
A:	but they're really,
A:	we don't have a big problem with it.
A:	I think that, uh, what most of the people here in New York state are going after right now is,
A:	it's, it's the, uh, ongoing acid rain problem.
A:	Especially out in the, uh, uh, Adirondack areas where, you know, the lakes are becoming, uh, changing the acidity of the lakes
A:	and we're having problems now because the fish are dying and certain acidic loving plants, uh, or alkaline liking plants are not lasting anymore because the soil levels, the p H is changing as this acid rain continues to fall.
B:	Right.
A:	And I know that there's been battles over the states up here.
A:	Uh, you know, Governor Mario going after, you know, governors of Ohio and and Indiana to fix what's going on down there.
A:	I remember when I was in Florida,
A:	the only problem was that it seemed like it may,
A:	it wasn't really pollution, just the steamy weather <laughter>.
B:	Oh absolutely,
B:	yeah,
B:	just muggy.
B:	So, yes
B:	I think,
B:	yeah,
B:	I think you're right.
B:	Our most pollute substance down here is just water.
B:	But I I, I, I think, you know, the biggest causes even then a lot of times are, uh, uh, like when I was up in Boston just all the cars. You know, just all over the place.
A:	Yeah
A:	it,
B:	You just got a lot of, you know, a lot of pollution from those
B:	and, uh, you know, if you don't have a wind, it sticks around.
A:	Oh, yeah.
A:	I, you know, I was in Boston once
A:	and I remembered seeing some of these things coming through at rush hour, even with the Tee.
A:	Uh, just this, it looked like billions of cars massing
B:	Absolutely.
A:	and if they sit there and then there's nowhere for the air to go.
A:	I mean, yeah, that's what's in, you know, Los Angeles is,
A:	I think that's biggest problem
A:	because when I was in Los Angeles for a time, it's all, you know, from Los Angeles to San Diego it's like all city.
B:	Right.
A:	And there's really, there's nowhere for this to be absorbed, really.
A:	Uh, tree planting sometimes can handle, you know, stopping some of the air pollution and that and help
A:	but if you have nowhere to do anything.
B:	That's, that's very true.
B:	Uh, you know, of course then when, when you're not recycling, you've got these incendiary plants and stuff, that can give you some pretty disgusting stuff going up in the atmosphere.
B:	But I, you know, you've got, you've got the industry,
B:	you've got that,
B:	and you got the cars.
B:	I think the cars are where, where it's at right now as far as pollution goes, air pollution I mean.
A:	Yeah.
A:	I, you know, Florida doesn't seem to be, at least maybe Miami,
A:	but I, I, uh, you know,
A:	Fort Lauderdale I, I don't know what the big industries are down there, uh,
A:	but, you know, up here we have Kodak
B:	Right.
A:	They put, uh, uh,
A:	you can smell ether in the air sometimes
A:	It keeps the neighborhoods happy I guess.
B:	I guess so.
A:	Uh, cause they clean the, uh, the lenses for cameras
A:	and they, they make film here
A:	but it's, you know, it's under so much control.
A:	You know, sulphur dioxide is the big emittant from them
A:	but that's really getting under control now.
B:	Right.
B:	I, you know, I don't know in air what they do.
B:	Uh, I, I haven't run across any major pollutants down there that I've, I've really seen a lot of, you know, about.
B:	Uh, I, I know I've seen like, uh,
B:	my grandparents live in Corpus Christi, Texas
B:	and I know they've, there's a lot of refineries down there
B:	and that, that's some pretty potent stuff they put up in the air.
B:	I, but I don't know how, uh, you know,
B:	there's a difference in what you can smell and what you, uh, you know, what's bad.
A:	Be interesting to see when, as Mexico develops industrially whether, you know, without,