| ==Phrack Classic== | |
| Volume Three, Issue 32, File #2 of 12 | |
| ==Phrack Classic Spotlight== | |
| Knight Lightning | |
| ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | |
| Personal | |
| ~~~~~~~ | |
| Handle: Knight Lightning | |
| Call him: Craig Neidorf | |
| Past handles: None | |
| Handle origin: Cross between character "Lightning Lad" from DC Comics' | |
| Legion of Superheros and Michael Knight from the NBC | |
| television series "Knight Rider". | |
| Date of Birth: I doubt you're sending me a birthday card so skip it. | |
| Age at current date: 21 years old | |
| Height: 5'10" or so (give or take an inch) | |
| Weight: 135-140 lbs. | |
| Eye color: Brown | |
| Hair Color: Dark Brown | |
| Computers: Apple IIc (Do you believe this?) | |
| Co-Sysop of: Metal Shop Private, The Brewery, Quick Shop/Metal Shop | |
| AE, Whackoland, The Dark Tower, Digital ITS (yay!), | |
| Stronghold East and probably a few more I've forgotten | |
| about. | |
| Net address: C483307@UMCVMB.MISSOURI.EDU (Yes, they actually gave | |
| C483307@UMCVMB.BITNET me my account back!) | |
| knight@well.sf.ca.us | |
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ | |
| For several years I had been a die hard fan of video games, both arcade | |
| and home versions. It was really the Atari 2600 video game Adventure that led | |
| me into the world of computers and hacking. As many people might know there | |
| was a secret locked within this game concerning a "magic" dot. It was not | |
| mentioned in any instruction manuals for the game, but if you could find it and | |
| bring it to the right place in the game, you could enter a room that didn't | |
| officially exist. In this room was a message flashing in gold and black. It | |
| said "Created by Warren Robinet". From that point on I experimented with every | |
| Atari cartridge I had. I tried screwing around with the connections, the | |
| components on the system itself, and I attempted bizarre tactics within the | |
| games, just to see what might happen. During that period of time I found | |
| several more secretly implanted messages and developed new ways of playing the | |
| games. Atari played on this idea quite a bit when they created a four game | |
| saga called Swordquest, but by then the fun was taken out of it because you | |
| knew already that something was waiting to be found. Eventually I upgraded to | |
| ColecoVision, but before too long this bored me as well. It is sort of | |
| interesting to see the new surge of home videogames of Nintendo, NEC, and Sega. | |
| It makes me wonder if this cycle is permanent. | |
| I was first introduced to the world of computers by a friend who had a | |
| Commodore 64. He showed me what bulletin boards were and then took me on a | |
| tour of the ARPAnet. Later that year, my long-time and best friend, known to | |
| most of you as Taran King obtained the use of his father's IBM PC. Together we | |
| explored various bulletin boards in the St. Louis area, always looking for new | |
| places to visit. | |
| In August of 1983 I received an Apple IIc as a birthday gift from my | |
| parents. It was real basic -- no monitor (I had a black and white television | |
| for that), no extra disk drive, no printer, no joystick, and no modem. Those | |
| items I would have to earn. So instead of playing with faraway computer | |
| systems, I was introduced to programming and a community of people who | |
| considered themselves to be software pirates. These people seemed to be able | |
| to get software before the companies even began to sell it. However, I was | |
| content to play games like Ultima III and Wizardry and hack the game itself by | |
| altering character values. This enabled me to move my characters through | |
| different places, some of which I never might have realized existed. Later, I | |
| was able to redesign the game itself to create an endless world of new | |
| possibilities for intellectual stimulation. | |
| Finally in March of 1984, my parents purchased me a modem. It was a sad | |
| little piece of plastic made by Volksmodem, 300 baud and battery operated, but | |
| it worked and now Knight Lightning was ready to take to the wires. By this | |
| time I already knew a lot about the bulletin board community through Taran | |
| King. Even so, it was relatively odd how fast I became co-sysop of the | |
| ancestor to Metal Shop known as The Dark Tower. TDT was operated by a "hacker" | |
| with the truly unoriginal name of David Lightman. Before I knew it, I was in | |
| remote command of his system with full power over user validation and BBS | |
| maintenance. Although the system went down after about six months, it did | |
| attract a few out of state users and it was here that my notoriety began. It | |
| was almost funny, but even as early as then Taran King, Forest Ranger, and I | |
| became known as the top hacker/phreakers in the St. Louis area. To this day I | |
| still don't understand why. | |
| By July of 1985 most of the hacker bulletin boards in St. Louis had | |
| disappeared, but The Dark Tower program lived again when Taran King created | |
| Metal Shop: The Dark Tower Phase II. He took the name from a popular | |
| afternoon rock'n roll program (KSHE FM radio) that centered on heavy metal. | |
| Both of us had visited systems around the country and we were able to | |
| effectively advertise MS. At one point we had over 500 registered users so we | |
| switched to a general password system for security reasons and eventually in | |
| January of 1986 the board became Metal Shop Private and we cut 4/5ths of the | |
| users. | |
| During the late Spring and early Summer of 1985 Taran King and I created | |
| the 2600 Club. It was just a group name to stick behind our handles since | |
| everybody was doing it, but it only took use a few months to realize just | |
| how ignorant hacker groups really are. However, the 2600 Club had one | |
| great legacy -- it gave birth to Phrack. If you go back and look, you'll | |
| notice that the first issue of Phrack was a product of the 2600 Club. The idea | |
| for doing Phrack came from Forest Ranger. Taran King provided the arena and | |
| would be the editor and I came up with the name. | |
| When I used to call bulletin boards like the Twilight Zone (sysoped by The | |
| Marauder) I would data capture the message bases and save them in text files. | |
| The messages from the hacking subboard would be saved in a file called HACKMESS | |
| (which stood for hack messages), the messages from the phone phreak subboard | |
| were saved as PHREAKMESS, but when there was a subboard where both these types | |
| of messages appeared together, I simply merged the two names and came up with | |
| PHRACKMESS. Since the newsletter would contain information on both topics and | |
| more, I felt the name Phrack was applicable. So where did the "Inc." come | |
| from? Actually it came from another DC Comics series called Infinity Inc. | |
| Kind of silly now since we never intended to actually incorporate. The first | |
| issue of Phrack was distributed on November 17, 1985. | |
| In Phrack issue 2 I began the ongoing series of Phrack World News. I | |
| followed every story I could and it was fun. The first issue was sort of lame, | |
| but eventually I learned that PWN was the most popular segment of Phrack. The | |
| greatest thing about PWN was that it was an original concept for a hacker | |
| newsletter -- lots of people had tried to write "how-to files, but no one had | |
| ever tried news before. Who was getting busted? What did they do? How can I | |
| make sure it doesn't happen to me? Lots of the stories were exaggerated or in | |
| the case of Oryan QUEST, fabricated (by QUEST himself). | |
| Outside of Phrack World News I wrote files about Videoconferencing, | |
| Private Branch eXchanges, and a few others here and there. Prior to Phrack | |
| I had released a huge glossary of telecommunications terms and files about the | |
| divestiture of AT&T and its aftermath. Taran King and I also wrote a joke file | |
| about "Real Phreaks" that was echoed by a continuation of that file in the | |
| Phrack parody issue number 13 that was released on April 1, 1987. | |
| Throughout my years I have met many people who call themselves hackers | |
| and/or phone phreaks: | |
| Android Pope - I wonder how married life is treating him. | |
| Aristotle - Sporty! He is the former editor of the New TAP. | |
| Bad Subscript - Right hand man to Control C and an expert at disco dancing | |
| in high speed Camaros. | |
| Bill from RNOC - How have your phone bills been? High? Have they been!? | |
| He is also known as "the most dangerous man in New York." | |
| Beer Wolf - Former sysop of the (Metal Shop) Brewery. | |
| Blue Buccaneer - Lost track of him over the years. | |
| Cat Man - How about a nice Hawaiian Punch? | |
| Cheap Shades - Now a Computer Science graduate of University of | |
| Missouri-Rolla. Former sysop of Metal Shop AE and | |
| QuickShop. | |
| Control C - A man with serious problems right now. Hope you get those | |
| videotapes and best of luck! | |
| Crimson Death - The one in 618 NPA. Very un-original name, but definitely | |
| one of a kind. | |
| Cryptic Fist - Kinda warm for that leather jacket, isn't it? (90 degrees) | |
| Cutthroat - So what McDonalds do *you* work at? | |
| Dan The Operator - An informant for John Maxfield (SummerCon '87). | |
| Data Line - Now a government agent, but hardly a hacker tracker. | |
| David Lightman - The sysop of The Dark Tower in 314 NPA. | |
| The Dictator - Not-so secret agent of Gail Thackeray, the assistant | |
| Arizona state attorney behind Operation Sun-Devil. | |
| In a past life, Dale was the creator of Candid Camera. | |
| What a surprise that was this summer. | |
| Disk Jockey - I thought he was a great guy until he started to backstab | |
| me on Lunitic Labs while I was under indictment. | |
| Doc Holiday (901) - The original! | |
| Dr. Cypher - Knowledgeable person who remains local. | |
| Dr. Forbin - Last seen at SummerCon '89. | |
| Dr. Ripco - Well haven't met him yet, but in a couple of weeks. | |
| Doom Prophet - A friend who seems to have disappeared. | |
| Epsilon - Must have lost my number I guess. | |
| Emmanuel Goldstein - Also known as Eric Corley, the editor of 2600 Magazine. | |
| Erik Bloodaxe - He is a wildcard... totally unpredictable... hacks by the | |
| seat of his pants. Still active, but he'd better not have | |
| a squirt gun next to his bed or he may be sorry.{SS} | |
| Forest Ranger - The man who introduced me to the hacker elite way back | |
| when. Former editor of TeleComputist Newsletter. | |
| Gary Seven - Don't remember much about him. Met him with Lex in Fla. | |
| Hatchet Molly - You know him as Computer Underground Digest's Gordon | |
| Meyer. He used a hacker alias to better enable him to | |
| write his famous thesis. | |
| Jester Sluggo - A mystery man who is still a legend in the Zantigo | |
| restroom and a better than average drunk driver. | |
| Kleptic Wizard - Was he BJ or the Bear? | |
| Lex Luthor - One time great legend of LOD, now secret BellSouth | |
| Security (at least until I hear otherwise). | |
| The Leftist - I wonder what he was going to say about me at my trial. | |
| He gave me a nod the day they dropped the charges against | |
| me. The US Attorney's office tells me that he was going | |
| to claim he learned all he knew about hacking from reading | |
| Phrack. | |
| Loki - Lost track of him over the years. | |
| Lucifer 666 - Lights, Camera, Action! | |
| The Mad Hacker - Sysop of The Private Connection in 219 NPA. | |
| Mad Hatter - Still don't know what to make of him, but I wonder if he | |
| still thinks table salt and baking soda are cocaine. | |
| The Mentor - Author of GURPS CyberPunk and former sysop of The Phoenix | |
| Project bulletin board. | |
| The Noid - Important enough for Southwestern Bell to question me | |
| about him so important enough to be mentioned here. | |
| Par - Hans. | |
| Phantom Phreaker - A friend. | |
| Phil Phree - Sort of spaced out character and right hand man to The | |
| Ur-vile. | |
| Phrozen Ghost - Lost track of him. | |
| Predat0r - Anarchistic editor of the New TAP. | |
| The Prophet - Didn't actually "meet" him, but I did see him and hear him | |
| speak... as a witness for the prosecution at my trial. I | |
| don't hold a grudge. His testimony helped clear me. | |
| Rabbit - Franz. | |
| The Renegade - Thinks he is part of the Illuminati. | |
| Reverend Enge - Not that religious. | |
| Sir Francis Drake - A great guy with an odd taste in jewelry. The editor of | |
| the now defunct WORM. Duck! | |
| Sir William - Never did hear the whole story of his problems with the | |
| University of Michigan computing staff. | |
| Surfer Bob - Lost track of him, but he enjoyed a tan at SummerCon'88. | |
| Synthetic Slug - Surfs up! | |
| Taran King - My best friend of over 11 years. | |
| TWCB Inc. - Two brothers who attempted to resurrect TAP, but failed. | |
| Tuc - Hey! He's TUC! | |
| The Ur-Vile - Don't know how I feel about him. He needs a real handle. | |
| Some of the memorable bulletin boards I was on include: | |
| Alliance - By Phantom Phreaker | |
| Brainstorm Elite - Where I met Phantom Phreaker and recruited him to Metal | |
| Shop Private. | |
| Broadway Show - By Broadway Hacker. Changed its name to The Radio | |
| Station. | |
| Catch-22 - By Silver Spy. Only 22 users on this system. | |
| Chamas - By Terra (Chaos Computer Club) in Germany. | |
| Dark Tower - By David Lightman 314 | |
| Digital ITS - By Oryan QUEST. BBS Commands were in Spanish. | |
| DUNE - Secret system imbedded on the Dartmouth University | |
| mainframe operated remotely by Apollo Phoebus. | |
| Flying Circus - By Monty Python | |
| FreeWorld II - By Major Havoc | |
| Hell Phrozen Over - By the original Crimson Death. Inspiration for the | |
| first Phrack Pro-Phile. | |
| Intergalactic Dismantling, Inc. - By Aiken Drum | |
| Lost City of Atlantis - By The Lineman | |
| Lunatic Labs UnLtd. - By The Mad Alchemist. Great system! | |
| Matrix - By Dr. Stangelove | |
| Metal Shop AE - By Cheap Shades when he lived in St. Louis, Missouri. | |
| Metal Shop Brewery - By Beer Wolf who now denies that it ever happened. | |
| Metal Shop Private - Greatest bulletin board of all time. | |
| MetroMedia - By Dr. Doom. System became Danger Zone Private. | |
| NetSys - By Terminus. NetSys is now in possession of US Secret | |
| Service and Terminus' life is in a shambles. They set | |
| him up and shut him down. You know him as Len Rose. | |
| Pearly Gates - First real out of state bulletin board that I called. | |
| It had a secret section of the board for all of the | |
| really good information. It was operated by Simon | |
| Templar. | |
| Phoenix Project - By The Mentor. Great center of learning. | |
| Phreak Klass 2600 - By The Egyptian Lover. Preceded The Phoenix Project as | |
| a great center of learning. | |
| Pipeline - Another early bbs I visited. | |
| Pirate-80 - A codes board run by Scan Man that has been up for | |
| almost 10 years. This system was NOT a target in | |
| Operation Sun-Devil. Odd? | |
| Private Connection - By The Mad Hacker | |
| Private Sector - Legendary system. | |
| QuickShop - By Cheap Shades when he lived in Rolla, Missouri. | |
| RACS III - By Tuc | |
| Radio Station - See The Broadway Show. | |
| Ripco - By Dr. Ripco - Shut down in Operation Sun-Devil, but | |
| its back up now. | |
| Septic Tank - By The Safecracker. Second generation of The Twilight | |
| Zone. | |
| ShadowSpawn - By Psychic Warlord. Great debate about the use of | |
| handles and real name/telephone/etc. "We're Not | |
| *ELITE*, We're Just Cool As Hell!" Taran King thought | |
| they were elite in the negative sense of the word. | |
| Great system though. | |
| Speed Demon Elite - By The Radical Rocker and home base to MetaliBashers, | |
| Inc. | |
| Stronghold East Elite - The "real" sysop was Slave Driver, but the board was | |
| run from the home of The Equalizer. | |
| Twilight Zone - By The Marauder. Great system for knowledge from my | |
| early days. | |
| Zyolog - By Byte Rider in Hawaii. | |
| There are probably a few others that I have forgotten to mention. My | |
| greatest computer learning experiences came from people like Bill From RNOC, | |
| RNOC, Phantom Phreaker, Forest Ranger, and the authors of the multitude of | |
| Phrack files and other technical journals. | |
| In general I see computers as the communications medium of the 21st | |
| Century so I devoted a lot of time to mastering their use. I do not advocate | |
| the illegal breaking in to computer systems, but there are certain types of | |
| information that I feel should be available to everyone equally and not just | |
| the rich or the well connected. | |
| Through my experiences on the Internet, I have had legitimate access to | |
| IBM VM/CMS, Unix, and VAX/VMS systems. For the most part I am content with my | |
| VM/CMS account, but will accept invitations from system managers to join their | |
| systems as well. | |
| With Forest Ranger and Taran King, I organized and attended SummerCon '87, | |
| SummerCon '88, and SummerCon '89. I did not attend SummerCon '90 since I was | |
| in Chicago at the time. I helped in organizing and attended PartyCon '87 and | |
| most recently I appeared and spoke at the 13th Annual National Computer | |
| Security Conference in Washington D.C. | |
| I had been a part of TeleComputist Newsletter, which inadvertently led to | |
| my first real media appearance (Detroit Free Press) and prior to that I was | |
| helping TWCB Inc. to create a NEW TAP. However, when I learned that they were | |
| just pulling a fraud, I exposed them. For 5 years I devoted myself to Phrack | |
| with absolutely no compensation save knowledge and experiences gained. | |
| =============================================================================== | |
| Interests: Racquetball (varsity team in high school and a bookshelf full | |
| of trophies), Telecommunications, Computers, Music (classic | |
| rock and pop music... NO RAP!), Fraternity life (well at least | |
| up until the trustees suspended me for being indicted), Women | |
| (sexy and smart over just good looks any day), Driving at warp | |
| speed on the interstate. | |
| Craig's Favorite Things | |
| ----------------------- | |
| Women: I've got it, but don't flaunt it. | |
| Cars: Ford Mustang, Eagle Talon, Nissan 300 ZX, and Porsche *911* Carrera! | |
| Foods: No Curry in a hurry-Blecch! American, Italian, Mexican, and Chinese! | |
| Music: Genesis, Rush, Yes, Chicago, Eagles, Def Leppard, The Police, Styx... | |
| Leisure: Sleeping, working out, racquetball, writing, computing. | |
| Alcohol: Bacardi, Smirnoff, Jack Daniels, Pat O'Briens, Hard Rock Cafe. | |
| Most Memorable Experiences | |
| -------------------------- | |
| All of the SummerCons, having an assistant U.S. Attorney lie to my face and | |
| tell me I wasn't in trouble five days after he went to the grand jury to have | |
| me indicted, football game with Sluggo in the Zantigo parking lot, road trip to | |
| Chicago for PartyCon '87, my time in a St. Louis Federal holding facility | |
| after I turned myself over to the U.S. Federal Marshalls (E911 Incident), | |
| Taran King and Cheap Shades out of jail when they were caught trashing, | |
| summer Alliance teleconferences with the PhoneLine Phantoms, the first time I | |
| heard Frank & The Funny Phone Call, watching Control C bother some girl | |
| in the airport and then seeing Erik Bloodaxe fall in love with her. | |
| Some Other People To Mention | |
| ---------------------------- | |
| Sheldon Zenner - The greatest attorney practicing today. He turned | |
| everything around and saved my future from a legal system | |
| gone awry. Thanks also to Kliebard, Dunlop, Berkowitz, | |
| and Kaufman. | |
| John Perry Barlow - Lyricist for the Grateful Dead and amazing writer, John | |
| also participated a great deal in generating publicity | |
| about my case and helped found the Electronic Frontier | |
| Foundation. | |
| Dr. Dorothy Denning - A lady who not only helped with my defense, but invited | |
| me to the 13th Annual National Computer Security | |
| Conference and is a good friend. | |
| Peter Denning - Senior editor of the Communications of the ACM and an | |
| interesting fellow in his own right. | |
| Scott Ellentuch - Mentioned earlier as Tuc, Scott is the president of the | |
| Telecom Computer Security Group and a close friend. Tuc | |
| assisted the defense team by locating the Bellcore public | |
| catalog and the 911 documents found within. Thanks Tuc! | |
| Terry Gross - Attorney with Rabinowitz & Boundin in New York City who | |
| was hired by the EFF to work on court motions dealing | |
| with the First Amendment. | |
| Mike Godwin - Don't know Mike very well yet, but he was very outspoken | |
| in Computer Underground Digest while I was under | |
| indictment and now he is in-house counsel to the | |
| Electronic Frontier Foundation. | |
| Katie Hafner - Author of a book coming soon about Pengo, Kevin Mitnick, | |
| and Robert Morris, Jr. I met Katie at the NCSConference. | |
| Steve Jackson - Founder of Steve Jackson Games. I haven't yet had the | |
| pleasure of meeting Steve, but we may be running into | |
| each other in the near future. | |
| Mitch Kapor - Industry wizard and creator of the Lotus 1-2-3 program, | |
| Mitch is a founding member of the Electronic Frontier | |
| Foundation that provided legal assistance in my case. I | |
| hope to meet him face-to-face in the near future. | |
| Gordon Meyer - Gordon has been a tremendous help with Phrack and a | |
| friend throughout my entire trial ordeal. | |
| John Nagle - Inventor who gave technical assistance to my defense team | |
| and located some very important public documents. | |
| Marc Rotenberg - Director of the Computer Professionals For Social | |
| Responsibility in Washington D.C. CPSR is an | |
| organization lobbying Congress for reforms in the | |
| Computer Fraud & Abuse Act and other legislation. I hope | |
| to be working with him in the future. | |
| Jim Thomas - Creator and editor of Computer Underground Digest, he | |
| brought the details and evidence in my trial to the | |
| public eye which helped me gain support. | |
| Steve Wozniak - Never had any contact with him, but since he had a hand | |
| in EFF, I thought I would mention him. Incidentally I'm | |
| ready to upgrade computers if someone has a Macintosh on | |
| hand. | |
| - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - | |
| David Lightman - The one in 214. See Oryan QUEST. | |
| Magic Hasan - Totally freaked out when I contacted him this semester. It | |
| was like he thought I had the plague or something. | |
| Olorin The White - He couldn't seem to understand that I did not want to join | |
| his group. | |
| Oryan QUEST - A hacker who made up news for PWN just to boost his | |
| reputation. Unleash with full force on this! | |
| Sally Ride - Also known as Space Cadet, SR co-wrote one of the most | |
| interesting PWN articles ever printed. | |
| =============================================================================== | |
| Private Jokes | |
| ~~~~~~~~~~~~ | |
| There are far too many to go through and most of them have been previously | |
| written by Taran King in a Phrack Prophile that appeared in issue 20 of Phrack. | |
| My private jokes shall remain private between those involved or at least until | |
| I publish a book covering the topic. | |
| =============================================================================== | |
| Phrack is a part of my life that is now over. I hope that Phrack Classic | |
| which appears to be a second generation Phrack will learn from its predecessor | |
| and not allow any articles that advocate the illegal entry into computer | |
| systems. On the other hand, I hope they will continue to bring interesting | |
| information and news to light every issue. | |
| For the record, I am not the editor of Phrack Classic. In fact I am not | |
| even a part of their staff. I would ask that no one send me any articles for | |
| that publication because they will not be forwarded. I take no responsibility | |
| for the actions taken by Phrack Classic, but I have faith that they shall stay | |
| on the path of honesty and integrity. | |
| I also have a few words to say about some other issues. My case and | |
| prosecution had absolutely nothing to do with Operation Sun-Devil, with a | |
| possible exception being the secret video-taping done by the United States | |
| Secret Service at the Ramada Inn-Westport (Maryland Heights, Missouri) during | |
| July 22-24, 1988 (i.e., SummerCon '88). Operation Sun-Devil was an attempt to | |
| crack down on credit card and calling card abusers and NOT hackers. Yes, there | |
| are some hackers that abuse these items, but the mere abuse of such does not | |
| make someone a hacker and it is about time that mainstream reporters, | |
| government agents, and prosecutors began to understand the difference. | |
| I feel that the abuse of "cards" is very immature and should be met with | |
| stern punishment. I myself have been the victim of credit card fraud and I can | |
| tell you that it is not pleasant to open your bill and see expensive charges | |
| from QVC Home Shopping Network. For the younger readers, it may take them a | |
| few years to understand this... perhaps when they have credit cards and bills | |
| of their own to deal with. | |
| As you may guess there is MUCH MORE to my story especially concerning the | |
| last 10 issues of Phrack, the Internet, and the E911 incident, but now is not | |
| the time or the place to tell it. Sometime in the future I hope to assemble | |
| the tales of all my adventures in the computer underground and publish them in | |
| a real book. | |
| Finally, Hackers are *NOT* criminals! Quoting from the brochure for this | |
| year's Hackers Conference in Saratoga, California, a Hacker is "someone who | |
| enjoys pushing the envelope, bypassing limits, discovering knowledge, inventing | |
| solutions, <and> adventuring into uncharted areas." | |
| :Craig Neidorf | |
| =============================================================================== | |
| ...And now for the regularly taken poll from all interviewees. | |
| Of the general population of phreaks you have met, would you consider most | |
| phreaks, if any, to be computer geeks? | |
| "I would not consider most of the hackers or phone phreaks I have met to | |
| be computer geeks, however over the years I have run into people whose goal in | |
| life is to pirate every piece of software in existence and of those people I | |
| feel that a strong percentage are 'geeks'." | |
| Thanks for your time, Craig. "No problem." | |
| Crimson Death | |
| _______________________________________________________________________________ | |