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A | Hey, guys. Welcome to Debrief after our episode with group. Group Greg Lukyanov, who is a fire, I gotta say, going to this debrief, I had a killer migraine for a lot of that conversation, David, so it didn't show up. Well, thank you. I wasn't a sharp. |
B | It only shows up on your slightly dampened tone, like, yeah, you're a little bit less enthusiastic, but in the words, you choose nothing. |
A | Okay, well, I felt really foggy, but anyway, I'm feeling a slightly better now, but this might be a shorter debrief. I was really excited to do that episode, honestly, I really like Greg. I feel like there is a need in the present day that we're in, David, to just go group all of the individuals who value classically l... |
B | Yeah, like a leader, a political leader who's fighting for values, who might not just have any crypto exposure. No crypto friends in his life. I don't know if he has any crypto friends or not. Yeah, but just have being introduced to, like, what I think are two friendly dudes on the podcast, and that's his, like, first ... |
A | Yeah, I agree. I just kind of want him to have, maybe he already has exposure to like crypto friends and they're into like speculation or something, or like buy bitcoin because it's going to moon or like, I don't know, mother and the Iggy azalea coin. I actually think that another vector of exposure to crypto, and more... |
B | See, ethereum is like a values protocol. |
A | Yeah, see ethereum and censorship resistance. What we're trying to do here as like partnered with his mission to propagate and prop up freedom of speech in the US and on college campuses and. |
B | Other places, I think there are like, there is some notion of just like a little ill liberalism baked into the technologies. Like the printing press is a liberal technology. And I also say the Internet is too. And you said we wouldn't be able to do this podcast without freedom of speech in the United States. We wouldn'... |
A | Yeah, you're right. I mean, there really are technologies that are liberal, lowercase l liberal, that are freedom technologies. And there are some technologies that take away freedom. There's some that give it encryption as we made the point so many times, is one of those freedom type technology, cryptography, RSS prot... |
B | I didn't expect a David Graber reference. |
A | Yeah, David Graber wrote what debt the first 5000 years, utopia of rules, too. |
B | Which is another good one. |
A | Oh, I hadn't read that. But the debt the first 5000 years was like another lens on money, which I think is an important lens for you, bankless listener to hear. It's very different than the commodity version of money. It's just like the origination of money as debt. |
B | It's kind of like a refutation of that model. |
A | It's a refutation but at the end of the day, I think Lynn Alden synthesizes this pretty well, and both are true in various ways. But anyway, he talks about, there's hints of a bankless theme we talk about, which is you can have money that is fit for a tribe, which might work on debt. You know, David Graber type princip... |
B | Better than their commodity, better than their. |
A | It has to be a better technology, more durable. Right? Lessen, like, ability to, like to copy it, more censorship, like, more resistant to. What am I trying to say? To, like printing forfeit. Yeah, exactly. All of these things, right? And so that. But anyway, he was doing that in the context of when I asked the questio... |
B | Yeah. I think a common thread with the things that we're fighting for in crypto and the things that he's fighting is that, like, different technologies come about and then different generations also come about. Like, it was interesting to hear him say that, like, millennials and zoomers aren't into freedom of speech. |
A | Yeah. |
B | What do you think? As boomers are? But then also, just, like, there's more threats to freedom of speech as more technology comes about. Right? Like, the Internet scales speech, but it doesn't scale free speech culture. It just scales speech itself. And so you still need to preserve free speech culture. And free speech ... |
A | That's another learning lesson from Greg and his experience. When you say fight, David, like, he. He knows this, it's a fight on multiple fronts. All right? So, like, it's not just a fight on the legal front in the court system. That's certainly where you need to take the front. We need to take the fight there on crypt... |
B | Do you think it intuitively makes sense? |
A | Why do you think that is? Why would that be? Do you think it's something to do with the populism? It's kind of like boomers going one way and that the system has kind of failed us. |
B | I think maybe it's like, the extremism of the margins, because I think the mar. Like, the left is more left and the right is more right these days, and I think polarization. Polarization. And they each see, like, the silencing of the other as, like, a valid move that they can make on the chessboard, to which, like, gre... |
A | So extremism is one possible, like, just, like, polarity. Increased polarity. You know, one other thing I think might be true. Again, this is just a thesis is just, we have been born, like, millennials and Gen Z into a time of unparalleled freedom of speech. We don't have. |
B | Or unparalleled scalability of speech. |
A | Yeah. And we don't have the historical context to just be, like, I've never lived in a closed society where I can't post whatever the hell I think on the Internet or say whatever I want, what I want. And so growing up in that kind of environment, maybe I just don't appreciate it as much. I mean, like, 1940s was just fa... |
B | Yeah. Well, that's when he cited the whole fourth turning thing. Like, the younger generation just haven't experienced the first principles as to why we have freedom of speech. |
A | Yeah. When he was talking about that, it was also foreboding. It's just like we're about to go through some bad shit. We didn't dwell on that. But I already have that feeling. |
B | I don't want any more of that. |
A | Yeah, I don't know if you have that feeling, but, like, I just feel like the next couple decades, I do. |
B | Have that feeling, but I also kind of think that it's also happening in slow motion. So it's never going to be like a cataclysmic event. It'll just be like. I mean, the world has gotten increasingly more chaotic ever since 2016, so maybe that's what we're. That's the whole fourth turning. Yeah, yeah. Ever since Harambe... |
A | What do you think? Another thing I was thinking as he was describing freedom of speech and its kind of competitive advantages. You know what? Freedom of speech is very much decentralization technology, isn't. It is like pushing power to the edge nodes and kind of compute and. Yeah. |
B | Like leveling the place. It's level playing field technology. |
A | Yeah. If you compare it to monarchy that had licensing of all the printing presses. Right. And then you go and you have this, like, radical enlightenment ideas that just like. No, everybody is their own printing press. Everybody has this enshrined ability to, every note is valid. |
B | Yeah. |
A | Print whatever they want, say whatever they want, and then we'll have another truth consensus mechanism to just like, figure out in this marketplace of ideas what's true and what's not. But what it's doing is it's decentralizing. Like it's pushing power to all the edge nodes and kind of like equalizing the playing fiel... |
B | You have to talk why it's important. |
A | Yeah. And it's, you know, I don't know. I see crypto as very much a successor to that type of idea. That's why I love crypto. It's just like, the money's cool, the tech is cool. I'm also kind of just here for the lowercase l values, liberal values, though. |
B | I put this excerpt into our show notes into the agenda that we had, but we never actually got a chance to brought it up. So maybe I'll bring it up here. This is a story that I like to bring up every once in a while. |
C | In early April of 2018, eight chinese students at Peking University filed a freedom of information request for records related to Gao Yan, a student who reportedly being sexually assaulted by a professor two decades ago and subsequently committed suicide. The university refused to disclose information, but a friend of ... |
B | So the idea is like, if you put the thing into a transaction, all the ethereum nodes, all the full nodes. |
C | Download the letter and have it on their computer. |
B | And so I think it's just a pretty cool, like, resistance technology. If you have your authoritarian, like, censoring nation state, you can make a transaction. |
C | On Ethereum and put text into that. |
B | Metadata or anything you want, and then all of a sudden, all the entire network of nodes that are pretty damn decentralized are downloading and saving this text. I think that's pretty cool. |
A | It is cool. And that's the point of protocols like Farcaster and even ens. You think of something like ens, let's say a government takes issue with your domain name, your davidhoffman.com dot, and deactivates your DNS name. They can't do that with David Hoffman eth they can with davidhoffman.com dot I don't think we've... |
B | Totally. |
A | That's why we did this episode. All right, guys, hope you enjoyed it's been the debrief. See ya. |
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