diff --git "a/1e3c57l.json" "b/1e3c57l.json" new file mode 100644--- /dev/null +++ "b/1e3c57l.json" @@ -0,0 +1,2226 @@ +[ + { + "text": "This 2 party system combined with 3 year limits accomplishes nothing other than dividing our country.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Let's be honest right now, despite being the \"lucky country\", we export most of our natural resources for corporations to profit from. Meanwhile, we barely get a slice in that pie.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Mining only benefits the workers, the government and corporations.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Tertiary education being one of our largest exports is basically us scamming international students 3x tuition costs and then scapegoating them (foreigners) for the actions by the government.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Why do we have a housing crisis?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Why do we have an energy crisis?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Why must we continuously rely on immigration to supplement this economy if not rocks from the ground (mining)?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Why is negative gearing still a thing?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Why must housing continue to be pumped up?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Why isn't insulation and double/triple glazed windows mandatory?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "If we rely on immigration, why aren't skilled tradies from developed countries prioritised?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Our productivity has been neglected because we rely on population growth and thus the participation rises due to literally importing more skilled labour which we screw over with additional taxes only applicable to foreigners. This supports whatever projects the current government wants to pursue and carries the ever growing welfare state we have.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I cannot be the only one wondering the above.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "These progressive commentators always do their best to avoid describing the teals as conservatives. If corporate HR was an election candidate, it'd be teal.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I think there's an increasing minority of people who are attracted to populist, scapegoating rhetoric. It's a symptom of real frustration, but dividing people for political gain is socially reprehensible and dangerous and does nothing to address actual problems.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I'm not sure the Liberal party will die as such but it's going to struggle to win government if it's not seen as sensible, constructive and liberal (in the actual sense of the word). In a preferential and compulsory voting system like ours there is a built in tendency for a more centrist, consensus candidate to be elected which is a big roadblock in this sort of politics actually taking off in Australia.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Lol", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Crikey", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Lol", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Dutton doesn’t care.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "The biggest mistake progressive media are making right now is assuming politicians like Dutton are engaging in good faith. They don’t care what they destroy - as long as they get to be King.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "They’re not engaging in good faith, which is why good faith arguments don’t work.  They’re self-serving megalomaniacs. The only nation-building Dutton cares about is his own legacy.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I think the last 3 elections are evidence that both major parties are dying.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "We are sick of seeing the two major parties racing to the bottom to see who can do worse so the percentage of primary vote is now getting very high for independent parties.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "My personal view of the LNP over the last 10 years, is that they have no spine to follow their convictions and are too scared to upset people, so if you believe what they are pushing you should instead vote independent because the independents won't fold.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "“As the Liberal Party has moved to the right”", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "And that is where I stopped reading. No liberal party has moved more left if anything.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "The Liberal Party and its supporters are fans of the US. I would know I used to be one.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "They’re big fans of unfettered capitalism and hate ‘government.’", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "The Liberal Party also has NO POLICY TO BUILD MORE HOUSES.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Ahh Crikey. Weren't they telling us how well Biden was doing?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Labor and Liberals days are numbered. Once the older generations are gone there will be more independents and parties.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Australia doesnt have the bible belt", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Duttons been chassing the crazies from One Nation and UAP. Most the conservitive Liberal voters now vote Teal. A large previusly Liberal voter base and he isnt chassing them back at all.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "The Liberal Party's factions killed the party in the Pre-Howard era.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Howard was the last man standing, and he was in no way representative of the Liberal party. His term as leader locked in that death.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Now it's just a populist right wing shell of its former self.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "> Thinks LIberals only imported \"US politics\"", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": ">", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "> Seems unaware that it was Labor under Hawke + Keating that brought Reaganomics to Australia, including the selling and privatisation of public assets, and the reintroduction of fees for tertiary education, without commensurate bursaries.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "How naive are these self-proclaimed \"informed and educated intellectuals\"?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "They are rolling Ali France out in Dickson again.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "He’s trying to do what Trump and GOP been doing for years as well as the Tories.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "They think they can have a chance with the fringe far right groups.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "What an article full of cope", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "A middle aged educated white woman giving her opinion about a candidate she said people like her would never vote for", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "And she's in for a rude awakening if she thinks Teals will keep getting stronger. They've come in and done nothing. But then it's typical of the people who vote Greens/Teals to continue to vote for them... Something about the definition of insanity.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "The only people pushing this agenda of \"US Style politics\" are people like her and Crikey.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Left wing media calling how bad their opponents are for the democracy.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "All Australian politicians are enemies of democracy. No ally of dogmatism can advocate for peace.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Good old crikey. They’re gonna be so upset when Dutton becomes PM", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Could the spewing of hatred towards Dunton and the LNP on this and other subs, which is similar to what they have done to Trump, radicalise someone to do the same?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "We all are complicit (myself included) in some small way. The politicians know indenity politics will get air time with the media. The media eat it up because they chase ratings because we allow advertising in news shows/websites, and WE give them the views and clicks. Even when we comment on a reddit sub about an article, we are perpetuating it.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "If you look at how divided America is, we are heading in that direction. That's why I encourage people to talk to people in real life rather than online. Remember that the person on \"the other side\" still has similarities to you. In the US, some people on the left support the 2nd amendment and own guns. Some people on the right are pro choice and believe women should have access to abortions. But even though they share some views with the other side, they feel like they have to adopt the views of their \"tribe.\" I hope we are able to see the down the road and steer clear of this horseshit.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "It won't kill it.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "It will transform it in very unpleasant ways.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "The US is a template for other countries on what NOT to do.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "In a world of increasingly polarised politics, I am incredibly proud of the Australia system. Extremists are naturally subdued by actual majority opinions. Smaller parties have a real chance. The candidate that wins convinced at least 50% of the voting population that they are the least bad.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Such a model could work elsewhere", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Its been a success for them so far", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Dutton doesn't care if he contributes to the demolition of civil politics in Oz. He wants the top job because it's financially beneficial for him. He will watch his party eat itself alive if it means he gets to be PM.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "What exactly qualifies are \"US politics\"? Anything you don't like?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "The billboard is bit crude some might say LNP is not radical enough going by say ON, DLP or Muslim political party block has very strong views, Dutton is less bible bashing than say Tony Abott was", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Importing the US \"culture war\" is just a distraction as the rest of Australia is sold off to oligarchs.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "The death of the liberal party will be their inaction on immigration. Just as the conservative party was destroyed in the recent UK elections so the Libs will be destroyed as people desert it for doing nothing", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "The Liberal party has generally been similar to the US Democrats (outside of a few fringe dwellers in the Democrats) but they are increasingly drifting towards the US Republican way of doing things. This way of doing politics is what produced the Teals and their supporters who didn’t like the drift into crazy.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Yep... the UK Tory party tried that trick, and that helped them pull off an amazing trick: achieving the greatest loss in the history of the conservative party!", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Whilst I do not wish for Australia to go through the pain and suffering the UK went through, Dutton is merely finding his inner \"*Joh Bjelke*-*Petersen*\" and so I hope it has the same impact on the iLiberal Party as it did for the UK conservative party...", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Its up to us to not vote that stuff in. Once someone acts like that and gets in, game over. It will get worse", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "LNP is a party of nothing now so of course people are moving away. If all you stand for is shitting on the country to line the pockets of the upper class (which is shrinking) then eventually people will stop voting for you (plus the boomers are slowly dying off).", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Even people who vote nationals because that's what they do are getting shitted off because the LNPs lip service to equality, lgbtq and indigenous issues is enough to turn them off.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "The left have been importing US politics for decades.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "What about everything else we import", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Our bold Trump is shopping for a blonde wig", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Seems like he might think it's a way to get insanely backwards policies through in 2024+. It'll be a version of the Amish vs modern man at some point.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "All of those things are bad for the bottom line: profits.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "The reality is that any country with a fiat currency system in place, is either a totalitarian state like China, or a corporatocracy.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Money rules everything. When money can be devalued by simply printing it, risk taking and corruption become the norm. Bailouts are assumed because the repercussion of that is almost invisible.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Could you imagine bailing out, say, credit Suisse in 2023, in a gold backed system? 100B Swiss francs they gave UBS as they used them all. That's 1/8th Switzerland's GDP in printed up credit. The government would have bankrupted itself if it were using gold.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "People would have gone to prison for life. The government that let it happen would be in removed, the treasurer, central bank and head of state in prison. New laws would have been passed to prevent it ever happening again.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Instead, because 100B is just another Friday in fiat land, the records of the deal are sealed for ~50 years and its being swept under the rug.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "They created a bank with AUM ~7 times larger than the Swiss GDP. Without repercussion.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "The answer to most of those questions is \"Rupert Murdoch\" and/or \"John Howard\"", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I cant figure out why virtually 3-5% of migration is from the Anglosphere, Canada UK USA NZ SA should be a natural migration demographic but its not", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Why aren’t skilled tradies prioritised? Good question b/c unions wouldn’t like it.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "We hve sold our country to large corporations and union bullies, and have busied ourselves with buying & selling houses. No manufacturing base like US or Germany, no tech base, no nothing. Just scamming each other in the ‘service’ industry.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Workers party dictatorship, when?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "The 2 party system with run-off accomplishes maintaining a centrist government, and that's quite something.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Answering specific points,", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": ">Let's be honest right now, despite being the \"lucky country\", we export most of our natural resources for corporations to profit from. Meanwhile, we barely get a slice in that pie.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "We export stuff to pay for imported stuff. You don't want to compete with East Asian factory workers, yet you want cheap stuff.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": ">Mining only benefits the workers, the government and corporations.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "That's incorrect. Mining is allowing you to buy imported stuff.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": ">Tertiary education being one of our largest exports is basically us scamming international students 3x tuition costs and then scapegoating them (foreigners) for the actions by the government.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Nobody is forcing them to pay 3x. They figure it's a good deal to get AU residency. If anything, that's to our detriment.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": ">Why do we have a housing crisis?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Because we imported 500k people in a year, and a few years before that, even we weren't importing any, we didn't build much either.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": ">Why do we have an energy crisis?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Do we? Last I heard, there are no even brown-outs.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": ">Why must we continuously rely on immigration to supplement this economy if not rocks from the ground (mining)?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Because you don't want to compete with East Asians in production of lasting value.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": ">Why is negative gearing still a thing?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Because it's perfectly fine with the majority of Australians, who are nowhere near as broke as you think they are.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": ">Why must housing continue to be pumped up?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Because we're importing 500k people per year and each of them wants to live somewhere in Melbourne, Sydney, Perth or Brisbane.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": ">Why isn't insulation and double/triple glazed windows mandatory?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Because it's fine with the majority.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": ">If we rely on immigration, why aren't skilled tradies from developed countries prioritised?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Even if they were, you can't force people to be tradies once they're in. If Uber pays better, they'll drive Ubers. Besides, it would be backstabbing local tradies, as it effectively pins tradie salaries at minimum wage (as with cooks).", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "> Our productivity has been neglected because we rely on population growth and thus the participation rises due to literally importing more skilled labour which we screw over with additional taxes only applicable to foreigners. This supports whatever projects the current government wants to pursue and carries the ever growing welfare state we have.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "There are no additional taxes for foreigners. They pay the same income tax and don't pay medicare levy (they typically get a comparable deal from mandatory medical insurance). Until you get PR the only thing you pay more is school fees in some states.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "The thing is, Australian economy doesn't create much lasting value. 80% of people work in areas just sustaining other Australian's needs, like healthcare, education and various services. It's like a large family where everyone is very busy cooking for each other, giving each other massages and therapy sessions with only one guy working to earn them cash, and then wondering why they're not rich.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": ">Meanwhile, we barely get a slice in that pie.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "You are typing on a slice of that pie.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": ">Mining only benefits the workers, the government and corporations.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "When you bought your device in AUD, the currency was evaluated in raw minerals bought from Australia (to be used to make anything, extendibly with some obfuscation: in any country) (and financial services and Vegemite, and everything else we export), the cost of production of your device in Yuan determined the cost of your device...", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "'How much Australian ore is this many Chinese worker hours, design, shipping and materials for this phone/computer worth.' <- that is how much your device cost.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Also, how much Australian real estate and uni education and Coopers is this phone worth. They all ease the price of your phone.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Now imagine we sold nothing but rotten fish, no services and no real estate. You would be paying China money that can only buy rotten fish. It will take a hell of a lot of rotten fish to supply a recycling plant enough for a phone/computer. Our economy would tank because we wouldn't be able to make cars, much plastics, etc. The cost of foreign goods would skyrocket. The US would have to cut us a deal to keep Netflix subscriptions below $1000 a month -- if we only sold rotten fish. Middle eastern countries solve this problem by exporting a lot of oil and killing each other. You can't just send them food, technology, nuclear reactors and push-to-start AK-47 factories for free.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "If you start taxing the mining industry, it will be ME AND YOU, paying the price, all the down to the Australian worker who will find the cost of goods has gone up and needing a raise to live at their pre-mining-tax means, unionizing and increasing the price of Vegemite locally as well.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "The Liberal Party have the solution to climb out of the simple-economy problem: enable business.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "In most big corporates you will find execs who are progressive in all the ways that don't interfere with their work.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "So for example if it's a fossil fuel company people will be publicly concerned by homelessness, poverty and jobs, if it's a bank they will be right into sustainability, and everyone pays lip service to Aboriginal issues.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "That's basically who I think the teals are.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I mean the colour assigned to them kind of gives it away, they are liberals that accept climate change hence teal.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I think their point is that Peter Dutton is apparently willing to travel to the ends of the earth for Gina Rinehart , an she in turn is [putting fund raiser events in her own private mansions for him.](https://www.afr.com/rear-window/gina-rinehart-stages-rich-private-fundraisers-for-peter-dutton-20240709-p5js8e)", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "There is more the the world than just conservative and liberal. Don't buy in to the American false dichotomy.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Teals are old school liberals. Socially progressive, fiscally conservative.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Otherwise, you're spot on with the comment about HR.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "The teals are big business shills just like any other liberal stooge.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Teal is right wing economically but not socially conservative. Not exactly socially progressive either, you’re right they have the HR style corporate woke. It’s not about progress, it’s about appearance.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "HR Karens what comes to mind with Teals", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Teals are just 'cooler' secular neoliberals, yes.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "It's shit like \"actually we do like trans people but only when they are small business owners\".", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "The new, sensitive psychopathy.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Well yeah obviously but I'd rather a conservative who actually thought climate change was something that existed than your regular LNP numpty.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "There are millions of voters out there absolutely pissed that their voting preference, their thoughts, their will has been branded \"ignorant and childish\" because, as we know, The Adults Are In Charge\".", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "To hell with the LNP and it's right wing militant wedge politics.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Having said that the Liberals just need to swing the vote 2% their way to win. With a friendly media covering for them that’s entirely possible", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Absolutely agree with this, I would never want to live in a country as divided as America, I really really hope Liberals or labor for the matter don’t start engaging in divisive rhetoric. Keep that crap away from this country.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Its was never a issue in the early 1980s in fact in our TAFE classes we had many recent migrants we all got on like a house on fire, everyone was everyones mate migrants were our fellow classmates was a sense of camaraderie in fact many of us were taken on as Telecom trainees in the same intake, today I dont think its the same today new migrants dont seem to want to be together, in a different times today with terrible economic and no sense of social cohesion so its all fragmented and tribal", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Nah, going left wing is the wrong approach. Lots of people looking for sensible centre right parties pushing against some of the crazies out there.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Although I do agree that American partisan style politics is gross - although I think it is the far left who have super extreme views that are going to pull us in that direction.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "There is no progressive mainstream media in Australia.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "And a few more childcare centres that the tax payer helped fund.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "He has never spoke of it. But you can tell his actions speak it.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Dutton longs to be a war time prime minister for this country. That is his ultimate goal.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "The $200 million dollar cop", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Where is your evidence for such an angry statement? I'll be voting Liberal because they're the party I think are most likely to deliver libertarian policies, small government, and dismantle the nanny state. While they're at it, they'll reduce wasteful spending and lower taxes (historically this is what they do) which will deliver cost of living relief. All things I'm very much in favour of.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Do you actually not know who or what the Liberal party is?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Very reasonable to assume that every Liberal voter is like you...", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Despite what they might say, Labor wont either because there's no one to build them.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I agree with most of this. And I mean “agree”.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Crikey these days often proves that not only the right wing media can be hysterical and light on facts.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "not since 1995 when was the last DLP & Jesus party ??", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "You want to know the scariest thing about this;", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Labor stays in government by staying just a fraction to the left of the liberals.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Have you not heard? The Liberal Party has no factions! It is a broad church!", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I still remember the footage of Turnbull saying words to that effect at the Party conference before he was turfed, and hearing the quiet giggling of the Party faithful in the background.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I respect Ali France, at least she’s overcome some adversity in her life. Or we could stick with the corrupt ex cop", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Having said that Her best chance to win was last election, the unpopularity of QLD Labor won’t help her chances", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Thank God for Australia's Instant Runnoff and mandatory voting", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "It doesn't matter that the Teals have done nothing.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Neither has either major party really.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "The independant vote is only going to increase.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "> if she thinks Teals will keep getting stronger.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "You think wealthy educated inner city voters will go back to Dutton’s Liberals?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Shame we don't have easy access to ARs and highly motivated young men.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Do you think Dutton is liked by most Aussies?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "stunned mullet dutton? every time the guy gets owned or gets asked a question that hasnt been fed he genuinely looks like a complete fool. no-one wants someone like that as PM", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Happily I don't think he has a realistic chance.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "He won’t be. Remember we don’t vote for the PM. Even if the LNP wins the next election, it won’t be with Dutton out front.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Literally next to zero chance", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "The likelihood of a similar event is becoming higher. Culture wars are really stirring up emotions in people leaving them ripe for radicalisation.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Anti-boomer, anti-immigrant, anti-landlord, anti-EV, anti-renewable energy, anti-halal, anti-vaccination. People are becoming so passionate about these things that they are willing to get violent over it.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "If you want us to talk to people in real life, you will need to set up a clinic.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "But yes, I agree.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "The virtues of compulsory voting. Neither being far right or far left is going to endear you to the majority of Australians, relatively centrist policies will get you elected.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "It takes two sides to fight a war. Plenty of us are sick of the left ramming their shit down our throats.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I hope you are right because I couldn't do another 'stop the boats' election. Also I want the liberals condemned to the history books", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "You say that as though Australian capitalism isn't totalitarian or that Australia doesn't assist the US global order in its own totalitarianism overseas (cough, Gaza, cough).", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Source on those figures?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "It's because we're all in the same boat. All our countries' governments want more warm bodies, and poaching migrants off each other is a zero sum game. So our governments import non-Westerners instead.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "And seeing how corrupt unions are with bikie gangs, they can get stuffed.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I'll take Raj and Zheng over Davo the Muppet", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Why are Trades unions so influential but white collar workers unions so weak (if there are any at all)?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I work in sales and retail.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Where a lot of our youth work to serve society.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Working 2 Jobs 6-7 says a week but barely have enough to cover rent and expenses.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "You have no idea how angry folks under 30 are.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "This country has been sold off.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "And our young people are broke and hungry", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Cannibalism when?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Based", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Mate you're misinformed in a number of areas and you're also part of the problem I've already highlighted.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "> We export stuff to pay for imported stuff. You don't want to compete with East Asian factory workers, yet you want cheap stuff.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "We primarily export Iron Ore, Coal and LNG. Yet the major mining corporations which make record profits selling to other markets are barely paying their fair share of company tax to us.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "https://www.marketforces.org.au/info/do-you-pay-more-tax-than-the-big-fossil-fuel-companies/#:~:text=Unfortunately%20not.,pay%20any%20tax%20at%20all.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "https://www.thenewdaily.com.au/finance/finance-news/2023/11/09/corporate-tax-bill-2021-2022", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "> Nobody is forcing them to pay 3x. They figure it's a good deal to get AU residency. If anything, that's to our detriment", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Of course nobody is forcing them. But when tertiary education is our 4th largest GDP by export and represents $40-50 billion per year, you can't argue the revenue is significant to the country and why Unis are highly dependent on them and also how vice chancellors get paid $1M/year.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "> Because we imported 500k people in a year, and a few years before that, even we weren't importing any, we didn't build much either.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I covered scapegoating of migrants for this exact reason. Hey buddy, I recall how immigration went negative _during_ covid lockdowns and despite that, housing still went up. Did you forget that?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Immigration is just one factor. The other factors like negative gearing, lack of government intervention, corrupt construction, developer and REA practices and incompetent councils releasing land titles at snail pace. The point is: there aren't housing shortages in developing countries. Yet Australia, the 6th LARGEST country by land mass in the world has a housing shortage? Seriously?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Prioritise skilled tradies from developed countries. That alone will speed up builds and they might actually teach us how useful insulation is.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Lots of Aussies complain about the coldness of winter - it's literally due to poorly constructed houses by once again, this corrupt construction industry. Talk to any European or North American, insulation is mandatory there. What's our excuse?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Housing keeps being pumped because neither major party wants to let it crash. Because what are you creating by continuously allowing house prices to rise? All it really means is the rich and property investors only benefit. What about the 18 yo kid today? Why should they have to be stuffed over so only a fraction of the population can become rich? (This is literally what has happened in the US and why they have so many homeless people). Because that's what happens when you allow such insane capitalism to continue.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "> There are no additional taxes for foreigners. They pay the same income tax and don't pay medicare levy (they typically get a comparable deal from mandatory medical insurance). Until you get PR the only thing you pay more is school fees in some states.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Yes there is. 3x education fees whether school or University. 3x stamp duty if foreigners purchase property. Mandatory private health insurance whether they use it or not. If expats live and work here and contribute to mandatory super, when they leave, the ATO takes 35% of what's there when they leave the country, then let's not forget all the visa fees, police checks, health checks, etc. Home affairs collects $3-4 billion per year just off processing visas. I haven't even brought up how underpaid and exploited visa holders are in this country whether at farms or at jobs that Aussies won't apply for because they know those employers are low balling.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": ">The thing is, Australian economy doesn't create much lasting value. 80% of people work in areas just sustaining other Australian's needs, like healthcare, education and various services", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "This is the only part I agree with. If you ask somebody how Australia makes money, the answer is by selling fossil fuel and agricultural products to other countries and scamming international students.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "We also pump our housing market just to make a small percentage of our population rich. But as you've beautifully said, we don't create much else.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "The housing crisis, isn't a crisis for those people who own houses. This is the majority of Australians. Most people are made richer by this situation, they bought a house for a fraction of the price their house was worth years ago and are now multimillionaires because of it.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Low interest rates, the way housing works in our largest cities. Has meant driven prices sky high.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Australian cities by large part are stuck on the coast and can only expand in one direction. People want the quarter acre block and given so many Australian cities are on the coast. There was always going to be stress on the centre of these cities. We both don't want high density in our inner suburbs and we have an aging retiring population that owns the property in the inner city areas and they want to stay there.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "My retired father is both poor and on a pension but a millionaire because of his housing. He needs financial assistant from me, despite sitting on a property worth more than I will every earn through employment in my entire lifetime. What's particularly galling in my case is that it's my father and partners desire to hand over their assets at death to someone poorer in my family because I am doing so well.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "> 'How much Australian ore is this many Chinese worker hours, design, shipping and materials for this phone/computer worth.' <- that is how much your device cost.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "You conveniently forgot the mark up. An apple costs less if bought at Aldi as opposed to Coles and Woolworths and even less at fresh fruit markets.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Valuation can be performed in a number of ways but at the end of the day, what's your margin? Is it fair? To whom?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "> Also, how much Australian real estate and uni education and Coopers is this phone worth. They all ease the price of your phone.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "You mean how property is one of the most expensive worldwide? (Meaning it's an outlier) Or how international student education is approximately $35K per year which is how most universities make money or how VCs get $1M per year?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Coopers is the last mainstream Australian-owned brewery in the country. Everyone else sold to foreign owned companies for massive profits. Also beer excise tax here is ridiculous. Where do you draw the line between costs and mark up?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "It's for that reason some goods/services in Australia are not worth it locally and are cheaper and provide more service outside the country. For example, a property in Australia sucks. The build quality of modern houses is rubbish. The price does not justify the lack of energy efficiency (lack of insulation and double/triple glazed windows which are mandatory in other developed countries).", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "This country has a very high quality of life and the average joe has it ridiculously easy. The average Egyptian, Indian, Indonesian, Brazilian, Mexican, South African, Nigeria, Russian, etc does not have this luxury. Remember that.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Exactly, the teals are socially progressive but economic right", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "You've accurately described a really important component of class rule as well, which is offsetting culpability and guilt by addressing symptoms of the breakdown of capitalism while simultaneously being rewarded for upholding its core institutions.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "What about the members of the Liberal Party who accept climate change?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "The teals are big business shills just like any other ~~liberal~~ **political** stooge.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "FTFY", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Teals are very big shills for Simon Holmes à Court who runs a Green energy investment firm", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I disagree, Dutton is possibly most significant leader in Australia political history: he single-handedly shows the dangerous of anti-intelligence populist in politics. Feels like he is purposely showing how to be the most untrusted politician and be the best textbook negative example for the future generations", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "We often wish things are in black and white, he is jet black in colour. We should thank him", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Not really. 2PP on a national scale means nothing if they gain all those votes in safe liberal seats.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "So many new land tax payer and Covid debt tax in Victoria thousands of new land tax payers who never paid any tax now are for land valued over $50k to under $300k so many new land tax payers vowed not to vote ALP again was so much feedback in the media , like do you know who many people own a bit of dirt in the bush for going to weekender camping ect, Vic Senate ALP has lost 1/4-1/2 senate quotas", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "And just who in the media are LNP friendly?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Yeah, but the extreme right wing is hate and division . The extreme left isn’t great either but it’s not hate .", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I’ll stick to the middle, we share the earth with everyone , everyone has the same rights . We can all exist together without division and hate. Nothing wrong with that . ", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "The LNP have shifted from slightly right of centre to the extreme right. They should be based in Texas as their policies would suit USA better than Australia.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Sadly the LNP is now a CULT of CLOWNS 🤡 .", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Exactly.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "When are people going to wake up to this?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Sbs is neutral and objective", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I use the term very, very loosely tbf", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Today to get in a daycare within 20 minutes driving distance of the place you live you need to enroll your child before it is born if you want them to start by the time they are 2. Schools waiting lists are even longer.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I don't care if Hitler is on the ballot parents will vote for him if he builds more schools and daycares.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Why im voting for the liberty party aka ex liberal democrats in the senate, LNP is too quick to throw people under the bus, ScoMo called Anti Covid Lockdown folks UnAustralian so did Albo for that matter", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Good for you. No one asked.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Yes am familiar that is a party of varying degrees of right wing members", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I didn’t? I’m using a generality.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Most Liberal Party supports do love and admire the United States.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Do you think I’m wrong in that assessment?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I was a Liberal member at Uni. We were obsessed with America and idolised it soo much.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Glad I broke away from that.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "But also Leland you agree they have no plan to build more housing?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Trump relies on the cults of religion. We dont have that", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Quite a large fraction. The Teals are to the right of Labor and a bit of a gap further to the right to what the Liberals currently are.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Agreed", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "No. That's why I added the comment about \"definition of insanity\"", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "The wealthy inner city will keep voting for these people who will continually do nothing productive for the whole of society, and then blame the Liberals or even Labor for some off reason", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Well we have the second, we just saw that a month ago.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Being liked isn’t a prerequisite to becoming PM. The current dude doing a good or bad job is the only thing that matters. Australia has voted for many people that were deemed “unelectable” just cause the current guy was seen as doing a poor job", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Have we forgotten about Tony Abbott already?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Remember that time albo was talking about interest rates crippling families when they were 0.35% and he didn’t even know what the interest rate was?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Yeah. He’s also a buffoon. Got the job though cause scomo was on the nose. Not because he was liked", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Which is why it’s going to be so funny watching the collective breakdown of Australian reddit when it happens", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "That's not what I was suggesting at all.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I explicitly said that any country with a fiat currency is completely controlled by the rich.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Ever been to a park with random people my area Melb north 3076 in 15 years not bumped into a Canadian or American and very few Irish or UK accents also Anglosphere countries excluding NZ are not in the top 6 of immigration even expat Aussies returning are in the top 5", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "ABS", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "They don’t even hide it. Wasn’t John Setka at some mobster’s funeral a few years ago?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I think the political class since 1990 has screwed over all of us", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Eat the rich.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": ">Yet the major mining corporations which make record profits selling to other markets are barely paying their fair share of company tax to us.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "It doesn't matter that much who makes a profit. We need foreign currency flowing into the country to pay for imports, and these guys, while getting rich, make it possible for you to buy imported goods, even if you're not seeing the profit.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I agree that our mining taxes/royalties are stupid low, but it's unclear that taxing them more would actually improve things - check out \"Dutch disease\".", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": ">Hey buddy, I recall how immigration went negative during covid lockdowns and despite that, housing still went up. Did you forget that?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Yes, I do remember building activities being essentially forbidden. Your point?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": ">Yet Australia, the 6th LARGEST country by land mass in the world has a housing shortage?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Once you deduct deserts, mountain ranges, swamps and other uninhabitable areas, there isn't THAT much left. It's still plenty but it's also pastures and fields to field half the Asia.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Then again, you can have a perfectly livable house for $150k, with some land to boot. The catch - it will be halfway between Horsham and Mildura.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Yet an empty suburban 600sql lot in suburban Melbourne goes for about as much as the same lot with a weatherboard house on it. You can priority import a million of tradies and they will not produce you a single square metre of land.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": ">All it really means is the rich and property investors only benefit.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "The problem is that the entire economy is fueled with home loans. Remember GFC'2008? Who cares if some US houses decline in value right?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": ">Unis are highly dependent on them and also how vice chancellors get paid $1M/year.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "So the housing bubble has to burst, but the \"education\" bubble must stay? If anything, the oversupply of \"educated\" immigrants hurts locals as well, there are plenty of jobs where a year of TAFE would be perfectly adequate, but companies have the option of hiring immigrant BAs for the same pay so why not?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": ">\"\"You conveniently forgot the mark up. An apple costs less if bought at Aldi as opposed to Coles and Woolworths and even less at fresh fruit markets.\"\"", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "You might not've understood my point if you've seen it necessary to get into the nitty gritty of cost of a consumer product, which is not relevant, and I'm trying to speak generally of the price in order to highlight the principle of validation of the AUD via offering ore.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "If Australia sold no ore, the phone would cost $3000 AUD, not the usual $1200. Because the question becomes \"what will we do with all this AUD?? I guess give us more AUD so we can try repackaging Australian seafood or... something... decrease our risk or you have not got a deal.\"", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "This is simplified. The seafood may be India's Australian repackaged seafood's in China's Indian silk dresses.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": ">\"\"Coopers is the last mainstream Australian-owned brewery in the country. Everyone else sold to foreign owned companies for massive profits. Also beer excise tax here is ridiculous. Where do you draw the line between costs and mark up?\"\"", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Mark up is irrelevant. Mark up is secondary to competition. Slave wages are relevant because it is pre-market and gives room for more competitive prices. Impossible to compete with prices even. China has \"slave labor\", but China is lord of it's own economy, has high production, low prices and people are happier. China has great control because of their ability to produce so much so cheaply. Australia is the opposite and steals from it's own economic future by selling raw minerals for current quality of living, trading ore for building materials, consumer products and cars, with an unpatriotic, honest and very un-shark-like people who do not wish to work \"for the country\" or make gains as business owners via things like cheap labour, and will not find in themselves motivation to work cheaply.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": ">\"\"This country has a very high quality of life and the average joe has it ridiculously easy. \"\"", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Because of what we offer the world (with a concerning lack of economic diversity).", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "You suggest we offer the world what we offer at a higher price (after higher tax), and imply we drop our standards of living (it is great to not be decadent regardless -- unless it is for building the basis of a new industry, or fad). The world will buy from someone else, forge new trade agreements and we will be left up shit creek.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "So … old school Liberals then. Those used to be called “wets”. They still exist but they’re massively outnumbered by the “dries” who were slowly dragged to the right during the Howard years. The wets came back for the fore with Turnbull (who’s climate and energy policy didn’t entirely suck .. at least if was an actual policy not a bunch of soundbites) who then got screwed over by the dries who were importing rhetoric and political strategies imported from the US.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "The unfortunate fact is that under Howard, Abbot and Morrison those strategies worked well enough to keep them in power .. until they didn’t which is why large parts of the party insist the reason they got voted out was because they weren’t conservative enough .. the conservatives in the UK and France both came to the same conclusions.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "They used to rabbit on about the dangers of cultural Marxism.. now they just say woke. None of them have a clue what it really means it’s just a brand to smear anything and anybody that disagrees with them or their achievement of power. Apparently my *very* establishment, brother is woke because he asked “have you ever considered that Morrison might have made a mistake?” to a bunch of liberal party powerbrokers", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "(FWIW - woke is mostly an evolution of Marxist class consciousness.. woke = aware of the way the current system oppresses you which in turn motivates you to take action against the system itself rather than its manifestations. Wierdly that’s exactly the same thing as taking “the red pill”. This is because both Marxists and the extreme right believe in the same end goal .. elimination of the state, and the system that supports it. one believes property is theft, the other that taxes are theft, neither have a clear idea about how to achieve this, unless you argue that dictatorship of the proletariat and “democratic centrism” really would have worked if Russia had been even more Marxist … sounds familiar??)", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "They might describe it that way, but its a totally compromised and impossible duality.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Being economically right opposes all re-distributive efforts to correct the domination of the wealthy in society and makes social progress entirely impossible except in totally individual circumstances.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "As I said, it's saying stuff like, we support trans people but only when they're small business owners. Trans sex workers can die/go to prison.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Mostly forced out at this point", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Red teals…….blue teals and teal teals…….", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "How many of our billionaire elites are members of the greens? Attend any of their functions?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Ah yes, that's right. I thought so.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "The formerly safe Liberals seats now Teal won’t come back, but I’d hazard a guess and say they’re aiming for middle class outer suburbs under mortgage and cost of living stress. If they can pick up 10 then they have more total seats than Labor and are in a better position to negotiate for minority government.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "You can't be serious. It's this sort of cognitive dissonance and outright lies that really make the LNP unelectable", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Every media outlet", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "There’s a lot of hate in the far left as well, they’ve just brainwashed themselves to think they’re acting morally so they don’t see it. Unless you genuinely think that extreme leftists supporting killing wealthy people is not example of hate. Both extremes have hate, it’s just directed at different groups of people.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "This is baseless hyperbole.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I'm aware of them and hope that they become a political force to oppose authoritarianism regardless of which side of politics it comes from.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Except many aren’t like that at all. I don’t know a single LNP supporter that idolises Trump, some may think he’s the better of 2 terrible options, but none think he’s a good option, let alone idolises him.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Edit:", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Here’s an article showing that studies in 2019 found that roughly 75-80% of LNP voters support Hillary Clinton over Trump:", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/quiet-australians-are-not-trump-voters-20191218-p53l01", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "So yes, most LNP voters don’t support Trump. As I said, look at the actual facts, not what you want to be true.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Housong starts / approvals are labors biggest failure. I cannot believe labor supporters still talk this up...", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Since getting into government 2 years ago approvals have fallen away. Approvals are at decade lows - ie pretty well back to where they were when labor last lost government.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Labor has lots of talk about supply.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "When it comes to actually achieving supply they say \"its a state issue\". You may not have got the memo but thats labors new line on housing supply. \"Not much we can do about it im afraid...\"", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I say this as someone who voted albo at the last election.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I am more than disaapointed around federal labors performance on housing supply.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "[abs building approvals](https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/industry/building-and-construction/building-approvals-australia/latest-release)", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Really? O.o", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I'm not a liberal voter or a labor voter, but having lived in the US for years, and my partner being American, I don't see much reflection of American capitalism in Liberal policy.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "What does the repeated reference to “doing nothing” mean?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Considering the Liberals whole things is doing nothing, there is no change with the teals in this world you live in, so why would they go back?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Also the greens don’t do nothing, they are famously not doing nothing. With their social advocacy and willingness to be a political disruptor by protesting, they do more than most. You might not like them, but just ignoring what they’re doing is incredibly naive.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Albo is objectively doing well what he has inherited.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "He inherited a per capita recession economy from Scomo.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Tony Abbott's four main election commitments were stop the boats, get rid of the mining tax, get rid of the carbon tax and get the budget back into surplus.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "He achieved three out of the four and in terms of achieving what he set out to do, he did lot a better than prime ministers of either persuasion in recent memory.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Tony Abbott looked like the prom king in comparison", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "lol scomo wasnt just 'on the nose'. he was an utter embarressment that didnt do anything at all to work on the growing economic problems he left behind, and fucked off overseas during one of our countries worsts crisis, lied about it then arrogantly defended himself when called out. if you cant see the 2 are night and day i dont know what to say.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "dutton isnt a morrison, but he is a dutton and in many ways, would be far worse", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Sure thing pal, I really wouldn't get your hopes up though", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Forget fiat currency, that's just class rule under capitalism and Australia is, unfortunately, part of the police force than enforces it at the point of a bayonet.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "You're basing immigration based on demographics in your park?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Buddy at the very least, check ABS. They clarify which countries migrants arrive from.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Otherwise, go to a different park. Your area says more than that.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "If you go to Bondi, Manly or Coogee, it's going to be Anglo as fuck", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "This says otherwise:", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/population/australias-population-country-birth/latest-release", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "> It doesn't matter that much who makes a profit. We need foreign currency flowing into the country to pay for imports, and these guys, while getting rich, make it possible for you to buy imported goods, even if you're not seeing the profit.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I think that's short sighted. Norway and Qatar are also countries with an abundance of fossil fuels. They also profit greatly from selling to other countries. Both of those countries also don't have an energy shortage and don't have a housing shortage because they understand stuffing over their own citizens is a dumb move. There's no excuse other than corruption here because if you're a citizen, it's our resources. If Alaska has an oil dividend, why don't we do that as well?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "> Yes, I do remember building activities being essentially forbidden. Your point?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "There's been a housing shortage every year from 2019 to 2024. Even with negative immigration. There's no excuse for the government not to subsidise materials, speed up releasing land titles, double down on building quality and get more tradies in. When developing countries like Indonesia, India, Philippines, Colombia, Mexico, Malaysia, Thailand and South Africa for example don't have a housing crisis and can house their much larger populations, what's our excuse for the spike in homelessness? Because that's the end result. A growing number of tent cities across the country that doesn't benefit anyone.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": ">The problem is that the entire economy is fueled with home loans. Remember GFC'2008? Who cares if some US houses decline in value right?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "There were only 2 countries with positive GDP growth during the GFC. Australia and Poland. And yet, we have learned bugger all since despite 2008, we've done exactly what the US did. That's where we're heading.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "> So the housing bubble has to burst, but the \"education\" bubble must stay? If anything, the oversupply of \"educated\" immigrants hurts locals as well, there are plenty of jobs where a year of TAFE would be perfectly adequate, but companies have the option of hiring immigrant BAs for the same pay so why not?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I'm not saying that. I don't think Unis should rely on international students as their main source of funding. I think this current government has taken some reasonable steps to boost productivity growth by investing into TAFE. But productivity is a long term strategy. So it'll be years until the fruit is ready.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "All in all, I hate this property crisis we live in. It shouldn't have happened and will only get worse.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I’ve seen the argument before that “woke” is an extension of Marxism but I don’t agree. It’s actually completely anti Marxist to be “woke” because Marxism is about materialism, not essentialist identity categories (ie; a Marxist would argue that things like gender are just part of super structure which hides true material conditions).", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "It’s simplistic to say that Marxists and the extreme right believe in the same thing, because there are multiple hard left and hard right ideologies. Right libertarians have little in common with fascists, but both are hard right. Communists hate anarchists, yet both are hard left. One has a state and one doesn’t. Either way, none of these ideologies exist in any form in Australian politics.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Old school liberals were barely socially progressive. Sure, they aren't as regressive as the currently Libs are, but they were never described as socially progressive.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Woke offers very little to the rank and file Aussies", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "*\"Turnbull (who’s climate and energy policy didn’t entirely suck .. at least if was an actual policy not a bunch of soundbites)\"*", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Are you insane? Snowy 2.0 is an absolute disaster and the only reason Turnbull supports renewables is because he owns a company that is milking taxpayer dollars.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "https://preview.redd.it/ilpt4kh5vkcd1.png?width=1027&format=png&auto=webp&s=abf3bef832d154f45e3f3d32edce20251251b717", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Pretty sure woke is just African American slang than everyone else is trying to claim and re-interpret, they've been using it since the 1960s.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "The world does treat people differently based on race, so being aware of that is being 'awoke' to the truth. it's similar to being pushed around by 'the man'.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "There’s been a purge of the membership?!", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "RIP Turnbull", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "No billionaires, just millionaires.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I agree but given anything they do that actually appeals to that group will be opposed by a good chunk of the party due to their ideological bent I'm not sure how successful it will be. Dutton's nuclear and colesworth comments are a prime example. Dutton says it without consulting the party and they fume. How many of those can the party take?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I asked a basic question", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Every media outlet is not LNP friendly.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "That is tin foil hat stuff", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Absolutely. It is the far left vandalising political offices, war memorials, children’s Christmas shows, etc.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "They are far less tolerant than most.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I think they have a big chance to get a senate seat in Victoria", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "‘I don’t know any so they don’t exist’", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Sure but it is better than liberals.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I said they admired and idolised them.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Not copy them.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "The Greens are nothing but performative politics.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Yes .. Bandts repeated posts about Palestine are definitely changing the lives of those Australians battling the cost of the living.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "And proceeded to make it worse", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Rampant spending resulting in persistent inflation, sounds great to me.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Yep. All that is true. But my wording is more concise when those things have been said multiple times and everyone already knows it", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Doesn’t matter much to me either way. Hard to see how either side can fuck things up any more than they have already", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Qatar runs on slave labour. There isn't much going on apart from oil extraction. Sure they don't fuck over their own citizens, they concentrate on foreigners who do their oil extraction and most of the services for them.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Norway exports are about 1/2 that of Australia for about 1/5 of the population, with similar structure (fossils/food etc). They tax their exports more, but the rest of their economy is just as dead. Their fertility rate is even lower than ours too. Not sure what I should envy.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Again, there is no housing shortage, there is land shortage around where's work.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": ">positive GDP growth during the GFC. Australia", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Not sure what's the deal with Poland, but Australia pretty much just chose to borrow money to keep people employed in various areas of questionable utility (and the did the same again for Covid with no utility). It worked in the short term but now our debt is 40% GDP, and something like 8% GDP is now going towards interest on that debt - since 2013 one in 12 Australians has been working just to service this debt. Awesome huh?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": ">All in all, I hate this property crisis we live in. It shouldn't have happened and will only get worse.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Yeah it would be awesome if 100% of Australians could own the top 30% properties I agree.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Which is why i said it’s an “extension” of class consciousness not equal to it. I also said the end goal of both is a society without a state (Engels “withering away of the state”, and Milei’s current anti state rhetoric) I never said they believed the same things.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I appreciate your reasonably well argued response, but it would have been a lot better if you’d refrained from using strawmans as its basis.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Damn, that might be the closest thing to actually understanding materialism I've ever seen on the sub.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Yes, being \"woke\" is a self selecting political identity people perform on the internet and it's virtue signalling. Far from being any sort of organised politics, its meaning differs enormously depending on who's using it. It's basically just another brand of politics as consumerism. Being \"woke\" is like demanding there be more diversity on television because you think seeing people seeing diversity on television makes them more progressive.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "It's very liberal progressive and narcissistic, just like all our other mainstream cultural politics. Identity politics is a huge distraction from politics. Some of the most diverse institutions in Australia carry out some of the most anti-social and violent policy.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Its said economic classic marxism is too slow for bringing in revolutional change as most of the west & anglosphere has economic mobility for the majority, so need to introduce critical race theory or cultural marxism ie based on DEI race gender minority ect all need to say the white, christians, west and men are bad, look at our own shores how did the voice go it was race vs race and who had the right to be more legit person of this country caused more pain and open wounds, I can agree with classic economic marxism but not woke marxism", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Maybe not by the people you hang around, but if you include support for things things like equal pay for equal work, gay marriage, universal healthcare, universal funding for higher education, and aboriginal land rights, protecting biodiversity and taking action against climate change as being progressive then a lot of wets supported all of those things.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Source: me going to dinner with my brothers friends, and school functions at upper north shore private schools. My best friends are a Greens staffer, a Labor party activists and an anarcho-syndicalist and an anarcho-capitalist. I’m politically non-binary, though I did help set up two political parties", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Malcom Frazer was very progressive for a LNP PM at the time", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Totally agree. It’s an intrinsically negative framing that goes against the “positivity even if we know things are a bit shit” that I feel is a core part of the Australian character.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Pointing out the failure of hydro mega projects is one my favourite things to do in energy debates, even though many environmentalists still argue it’s the best option for a very low carbon grid. I’m also not a fan of carbon credits unless the carbon is going back into the Geosphere, nonetheless it was part of a reasonably coherent energy policy and if it had been implemented as planned it would have had a positive effect. - hence “His policy didn’t entirely suck”", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "The word is definitely African American slang that probably goes back to the Wide-Awakes before the civil war .. but the term only got on the conservatives radar when it started getting used by left wing college student on social media. Initially in an anti police context but increasingly in a more Marxist class consciousness / Intersectional Feminist / identity politics framing. I would (and have) argued that identity politics is an evolution of Marxist ideas about class consciousness, but there are those with what seems to me like a classical liberal political bias that feel that argument is flawed, mostly, I assume, because they don’t seem to want to have any association with Marxism.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Most people under appreciate how much Marxism informs their worldview even though they think it’s icky and wrong. The same thing applies to other philosophers including both Plato and Aristotle (both racist slaveowning warmongers), Hegel, Locke etc", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I was referring to standing MPs who had preselection campaigns against them because of their position and views.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Most ordinary members just left", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "A lot of them were wiped out in the last election, by the teals.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Same goes for millionaires too. Pick whatever wealthy elite value you like.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "How many Aussie elite 1% prop up the greens?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Once again, ah thought so.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Google Rupert Murdoch mate", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I’m not saying they don’t exist, I’m saying your generalisation isn’t accurate.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Well on housing supply it is factually worse.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "And you can say - it takes time to build houses and i accept that it does but housing approvals are the first step.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "You dont build more houses by starting a lot less.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "And at the same time as 650k population growth last year.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Accept on some matters liberaos are worse. Just pointing out in housing labor have been massive let downs.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "As opposed to the other parties whose performative politics are objectively awful?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Yes that is all “the Bandts” do. /s", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "We’ve never seen them working on legislation around housing, renters rights, part of the investigation into price gouging by the supermarkets, etc.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Out of interest, what have you seen the liberals or the nationals do? Considering they’re the main opposition, they should be doing a lot right?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Of course we could say that just saying no to everything without an alternative, or present a nuclear option that is neither commercially viable nor politically possible is doing something…", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Do you have a source for that? I’ll wait.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Rampant spending? What about the billions the Liberals spend during COVID what do you call that?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Albo has spent nowhere near Scomo did.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Wait you didn’t know that?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "i get you. i personally think he will keep the job because he offers a working government that tries, we dont see that with dutton", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Way to debate by finger pointing elsewhere, mate. Rather than compare 1v1, you compared 1vb.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Tall poppy syndrome knows no bounds.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Remember this the next time you're unhappy with anything currently. It's because of ignorance like this.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "If everywhere else is so shit, what's our excuse for the lack of productivity, a property crisis, increased homelessness and an ever growing gao between home owners and FHBs?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Ok, but if you are going to say that woke is an extension of Marxist focus on class, you probably need to actually demonstrate how that is the case. Realising you are “oppressed” isn’t uniquely Marxist, because Marxists focus on exploitation. Thinkers have been writing about being oppressed by a system for Millenia, well before Marx and well after Marx. My point here is that if being woke is the complete antithesis of being Marxist (a focus on identity categories, not the material reality) then how can you say it is linked to it?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Further, as I have highlighted, extreme left wingers do not all exclusively believe that the state should be removed at all. In fact Marxist Leninist communists would disagree with you heavily. You have rightly highlighted that libertarians and anarchists similarly dislike the state, but it is far, far more complex than that on both ends of the poltico spectrum.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I based my opinion on how old school Libs in politics voted, and a lot of them did not vote progressively.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Dont know why but being slugged paying more and more tax I kinda think anarcho-capitalist has some good points virtually no government, free trade between people and non-aggression principle, only need a nite watchman police force only to maintain non-aggression principle maybe the only role for government force", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "[deleted]", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I want to subscripe to your newsletter on this.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "What is your informed perspective on this whole situation/debate?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Were there sitting MPs who lost out during pre-selection campaigns?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "> How many Aussie elite 1% prop up the greens?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Lots? I guess that's what you thought?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "[John Black](https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/doomed-planet/2010/06/the-green-dollar/) says that the \"richest voters in Australia are not Liberals but Greens\" ([Quadrant](https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/doomed-planet/2010/06/the-green-dollar/)).", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "If you look at the data it makes sense. Greens are all the things correlated with higher incomes:", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "* more educated", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "* more likely to live in inner city", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "* less likely to have kids", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "* less religious", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Yes Murdoch's papers lean right", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "But the ABC, theage and SMH lean left", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I used to be a Liberal member my guy. Ugh. Amongst the younger cohort it is definitely true.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Yeah I agree. Still Liberals go last.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Your biggest mistake in this discussion is the assumption I am a Liberal or Nationals voter", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "It seems to be the go-to argument when anyone questions the great Bandt.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I was and still am disgusted by the Liberal COVID cash splash. But I'm not interested in binary Labor vs Liberal arguments, I want good government, regardless of who is in.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Not sure what the rest of your message is about, you seem to be talking to yourself.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Outrage. LNP spending was “careful” and “targeted.”", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Wow, so Labor voted against all that covid spending, and was warning at the time about how economically dangerous it was, and Labor states were trying to urgently re-open their economies?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Oh no, of course not. They not only supported it, they said it wasn't enough, and when spending programs expired they demanded extensions so that they could drag the lockdowns out as long as possible.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Well it's not me who started finger-pointing, at Qatar of all places.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Not sure where you see tall poppy - go ahead and do something useful for the society and you'll be handsomely rewarded - that's how capitalism has always worked. The problem is many people are probably already happy to do that for less.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Re being unhappy - It's counterproductive to say \"everyone is stupid and won't the way I want\" - they are motivated by their own interests, not yours. Among these interests is to somehow support unemployed people, sure. If, however, the unemployed on the dole become a sizable enough political force to *demand* more, it's instant game over.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": ">If everywhere else is so shit, what's our excuse", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "That's exactly what's called first world problems, even the homelessness to the degree we have it.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Marxist-leninists only see the dictatorship of the proletariat as a temporary measure on the way to a classless and hence stateless society. Any of them who believe otherwise need to go back and re-read what is arguable the quintessential late Marxist text “the critique of the gotha program”", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Then again a lot of Marxists are a lot like many Christians, they’ve never really looked hard at the literature that supports their worldview", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Now back to your statement that seemed to imply that identity politics is the antithesis of maxist theory (correct me if that interpretation of your words is incorrect) keep in mind the entire point to “class consciousness” is one of identity", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "To quote the Wikipedia article on this “In Marxism, class consciousness is the set of beliefs that a person holds regarding their social class or economic rank in society, the structure of their class, and their class interests.[1][2] According to Karl Marx, it is an awareness that is key to sparking a revolution”", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "It’s not about oppression specifically, but about awareness of the commonality of the interests of the proletariat and how that awareness (woke to what’s going on) facilitates the ability to resist oppression. It is a political tool.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "From my perspective, you appear to be conflating “wokeness” with intersectionality which I would argue is a direct extension (or perhaps evolution would have been a better word) of Marxist class consciousness->existentialism->feminism(waves 2 and 3)->intersectionality", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "This is why the “anti-woke” crowd include feminism inside their examples of “woke ideology”", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Yeah .. party solidarity plays a lot into that too. The wets have never been particularly renown for their political backbone, and the powerbrokers on the dry side have always been more Machiavellian than their wet counterparts", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "That's more minarchist than full-on Ancap. Works a lot better in a world where you don't need to spend 3% of GDP on your armed forces, but I totally understand the appeal.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I'm personally also a fan of being able to hang on on any beach or riverbank, universal healthcare, clean water and reliable electricity, food safety, free education (at least K-12) fair elections, garbage collection, street lights, not having to pay for toll roads fricken everywhere or watching pensioners begging on the street. Some things work better when they're paid for by everyone.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I can however do without government-funded sports arenas, car parks gymnasiums in private schools and other forms of porkbarelling.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Yep Fraser IMO was the beginning of the Dry rot .. Medibank being arguably the biggest fuckup of a “‘more private = goodness” mindset, and this partly explains why they spent so much time in the political wilderness afterward, the drys of course blamed it on Fraser’s reasonably progressive leanings and pushed Howard into the next liberal PM slot. He at least was clever enough to say things like “no gst, and then went “yeah, naah when I said no gst what I really meant to say was we will ram one down your throat anyway” .. how the libs under Howard won the next election is beyond me .. it only encouraged more bad behaviour and entrenched the dry dominance since then.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "You’d be better off reading Russel’s history of western philosophy, or get the audio-book and listen to it on long car journeys when you’re …. alone. Few people enjoy this kind of stuff which is a pity IMO.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Yes", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Those things are also correlated with being more progressive, so?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Compared to the liberals it's not even close.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Your 4 points just describe a well rounded person, not necessarily a wealthy person.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "There are average to low income earners who posess those traits.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I am all but the 3rd one and I'm not wealthy, just middle class.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "All the wealthiest electorates in the country are safe liberal seats and have been in some instances for close to a century. It's not even worth discussing this.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "They only lost some to the teals who are just liberals anyway with a bit more of a conscience but still love cupping the balls of big business.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Now back to facts, all of Australia's wealthiest people are not only liberal voters and donors but often also liberal party members.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Name a billionaire/millionaire and you can follow the money trail.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "If what you say had even a hair of truth to it, the liberals would be chasing inner city greens voters. They HATE poor people with a passion.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "But that's not the reality. They're chasing the votes of the upper middle classes to top billionaire elites and everything in between.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "It's no brainer the coalition were against watering down the stage 3 tax cuts and vocally opposed to the IR reforms and super tax changes.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "If the greens voters and pollies were so pro the rich like you falsely claim, the greens would've supported the coalition's $9000 gift to the wealthy. They didn't, they wanted them quashed altogether.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "They were actually the only pollies begging albo to shelve them altogether with Pocock, instead of just watering them down. Even though they'd have lost that $9000 freebie themselves.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "You've just been conditioned by corporate media who... Surprise, surprise... Benefit most from a coalition government. Because they kiss the rings of the wealthy.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Read, and learn.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Ha ha ha", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Amongst your bubble, maybe. Doesn’t mean it’s true for the whole cohort. Do you have any actual sources with data to support that most LNP voters support republicans?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Not to mention, it’s incredibly easy to lie online and many people do to push their agenda. You clearly have one against LNP voters, so it’s not exactly hard to believe you could be lying. Not saying you are, but unless you can provide actual statistics I’m not going to blindly believe you when my own experiences show the opposite.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I'm a current Liberal party member. I don't go around using that as evidence I'm right about a majority of Liberal supporters, though, because that's ridiculous. Reminds me of Christian preachers that try to establish street cred by repetitively saying \"I used to be an ardent atheist!\". Most of the time it's because their arguments suck, and often it isn't even true.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Take yourself out of the argument and provide some evidence.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Fair enough.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I dont really like liberals on IR and obviously building 7 nuclear reactors at the same time is more than risky; lol...", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I cannot for the life of me understand why they cannot build just 1 nuclear reactor. Ie it costs between 30 and 90bn and in 7 or so years we might have a handle on total cost rather than 7 x that risk.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I’m not saying that you are anything.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "“The wealthy inner city will keep voting for these people who will continually do nothing productive for the whole of society, and then blame the Liberals or even Labor for some off reason”", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I feel like I addressed the greens option, I think they do a lot, some people might call it performative, I would suggest they push governments to do more.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "So for the Teals, who would be the seats that Dutton is the other option for since they won more seats recently, if “the do nothing” then there is no departure from the liberals, who do nothing as well, so why would they go back to the liberals?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "But I also don’t buy that they do nothing, I work with someone who campaigned as “a Teal” and she is one of the most hard working people I know. Independents tend to be harder working because that’s how they stay in their seat.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "When have the Libs ever had a good government?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "They believe their own lies and biases.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "They weren’t in government champion.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "So who enacted that policy? Liberals.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Who put us into a per capita recession in 2019?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Given Lenin was barely born when the critique of the gotha program was written, it seems very unlikely that “all Marxist leninists believe that the state must be removed to create a classless society”. In fact many MLs, particularly outside of the west do believe that a state in some form is necessary to ensure communal use of resources (ie communism). Examples include the entirety of the Soviet Union, Cuba, North Korea; and debatably, China. As you are well read in Marxism I probably don’t need to explain the shift from “global socialism” to “socialism in one country” that occurred in the 1930 and 40s but it specifically addressed the stateless communism idea. It’s a split within Marxist thinkers even today. Arguing that a society without a state is the end goal for all Marxists is wrong in my opinion. I think you’re conflating Marx writing about political consciousness as a precursor for revolution, vs his (and engels) actual analysis of capital/worker relations. Of course class consciousness is needed for a revolution, but in capital especially, what Marx is arguing is that the worker is exploited, ie, they do not receive a fair share of the value their labour creates. Therefore workers are not oppressed simply because they are workers, they are exploited. Once they realise they are exploited, they may have class consciousness and will thus enact a revolution.  Yes, I think you’re closer to the truth in saying that intersectionality is much more linked to my own conception of “woke”. However, I wouldn’t say intersectionality is a result of Marxism? Crenshaw certainly is not a Marxist in any way shape or form, she is a liberal feminist (at best). Do you think feminism emerged from Marxism? I’m not sure it did, given that feminist movements were active well before Marx was writing, and were not class based (suffragettes for example were across all classes). There are Marxist and socialist feminists certainly, but again I’d argue that it’s a stretch to say feminism and intersectionality are born of Marxism. Can you highlight thinkers who have actually taken Marxism and demonstrated its thinking within different frameworks, consciously?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Can I guess you have no skin in the game ie no large super balance, not paying land tax and depended on the state, so sound like a socialist soft still, so you happy to save maybe 10-12% on the budget for no defence arts sports or cultural, misc pork barrels or non government schools, but OK with the rest am I reading you correctly ??", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "That's a 38 hour audiobook :/", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I am a sucker for a good audio-book-length/cost ratio though!", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I bought it and I'll listen to it over the next few weeks on my commutes.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": ">Few people enjoy this kind of stuff which is a pity IMO.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "You probably just need to find the right Meetup group to discuss these things with, in sure there is one!", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": ">Read, and learn.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I gave you a source, not a great one but one all the same. What's your source?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "It's well known that [Labor seats now earn more than Liberal](https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/for-the-first-time-labor-voters-earn-more-than-coalition-voters-20220601-p5aq4p). The Liberal Party have been racing to the bottom of the barrel since Howard, chasing ideology over rationalism, and no longer make sense to educated people. They're the party of (some of) the ultra-wealthy, at least those who stick their face out, because there are personal favours involved rather than because of tax cuts. The actual rich DGAF about the Stage 3 tax cut anyway", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "The Greens risked votes over the tax cut, but they risked more votes if they didn't oppose. I think Greens are also the party of the poor, frankly. They just aren't the party of the middle class suburban conservative.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Anecdotally I'm in the top tax bracket and I vote Green, and I know many others like me. Green voters usually hate their candidates less than major voters (both shit and shit-lite teams), and admire their effort at honesty, transparency and fairness - even if their policies aren't always to my personal benefit, they're usually good for the country.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "They literally celebrated trump winning in 2016…", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Why are you a current liberal party member?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "You've really drank the kool-aid, haven't you? I'm trying to talk about what should be done, I'm even willing to call out my own party on its mistakes. You just want to do the mindless labor vs liberal thing. Transcend party politics. Be free.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "They didn’t believe it at all. I think they were caught between the rock of Keynesian economics (which they despise ideologically) and the hard place of “it’s actually what we need to do.” They resisted until it was almost too late - I suspect Frydenberg was smashing heads behind the scenes…", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "That's funny, could have sworn they were ruling (with an iron fist) 5 out of 8 states + territories, and that an absurd \"National Cabinet\" had to be set up because Labor wouldn't cooperate on covid measures otherwise, and they were the federal opposition. Would have thought they were in a position to say *something* about wasteful policies.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Your thesis that Leninism didn’t have the withering away of the state as the desired end-state doesn’t really hold water .. vis https://www.marxists.org/archive/hardcastle/1946/wither_away.htm", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Having said that, pretty much everyone who wasn’t a die-hard Marxist (most notably Bakunin on the left, and Mises on the right) could see that the transition from the dictatorship of the proletariat to the stateless society was about as likely as the impending final crisis of capitalism.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "That and socialism in one state, is where I came up with “it would have worked if Russia was even MORE Marxist” .. it was meant to be funny ", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "As far as the link I proposed, you’ll note I skipped the first wave of feminism in my thesis. Second wave was far more influenced by Simone de Beauvoir https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simone_de_Beauvoir whos impact on feminist theory and carrying through to wave 3 / 4 cannot (in my view) be easily denied, and that that theoretical framework is undeniably Marxist in it framing and worldview. In the same way Marxist class consciousness is important for the proletariat, she extended that to consciousness of how womanhood is constructed (essence coming after existence .. you are made into a woman, you are not born as one). That carries through directly into intersectionality, not only must you become aware of your exploitation as a proletarian worker and as a woman (hence doubly exploited) which is characteristic of 2nd and 3rd wave feminism, but also as a member of a repressed race or sexual orientation etc (intersectionally exploited) which is my very simplistic reading of 4th wave, though from a post modern perspective, those categories / waves are probably too simplistic to begin with.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "As far as who has looked at Marxism or developed it or used it’s ideas within theoretical framework from outside Marxism, I’d point to debeauvior herself, the revisonists like Bernstien or philosophers like Satre https://iep.utm.edu/sartre-p/ to begin with, or even Mao (that’s a stretch)", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "edit : I think you might find this an interesting read on the influence DeBeauvior had on intersectionality : https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/hypatia/article/simone-de-beauvoir-analogy-intersectionality-and-expanding-philosophy-an-interview-with-kathryn-sophia-belle/E39F74432DEA8B1A63FD85A8BA9FEDDA", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Depends on what you mean by large .. I’ve been in the top 10% income bracket for the last 15 years, top 5% for the last 8 .. and prior to that I was doing pretty well as an IT contractor.. my super balance is more than enough to let me retire comfortably now. I’ve also done three startups, been flat broke twice in the last twenty, I’ve got a a nice parcel of Lakeview land up around Jindabyne and I’m looking out of the window of my home across the water to a bridge and a marina .. so I’d say I have skin in the game.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "As far as the rest of your summary goes mostly wrong .. go back and read what I said .. a better summary would be that there are a whole bunch of services (including defence) that the government supplies that I like which are more efficiently done by large centralised administrative organisations. I’ve already listed a bunch of representative samples of those", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Stuff like sporting arenas are run as for-profit and nobody is going to starve if the government doesn’t fund them as a vote winning porn barrel. As far as the government funding luxury gymnasiums which allows other funding to be channeled towards hypobaric chambers to acclimatise the snow sports teams, that stuff belongs with the parents .. believe me, I’ve been to and put enough into those kinds of fundraisers to know.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "So yeah .. anyone who supports using government funds for porkbarreling can take a hike as far as I’m concerned.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Thanks .. I’ve been considering going back to Uni to do a degree in philosophy, maybe when I retire.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "My take on “woke” is that most conservatives are trying to return to a glorious past that never existed because the future is bloody scary or they want to be part of the in-crowd that has the money so they can feel good about getting rich too. Then there are people who just want to exploit that fear or greed for fun and profit. Woke us just a rhetorical label for anything that gets in the way of those objectives.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "That sounds harsh, and now I’m getting closish to retirement I kind of vibe with the scary future stuff (see gandpa Simpson)", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "https://youtu.be/LV0wTtiJygY?si=qXoc97Xg41AuyRvG", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "But for the most part conservatives don’t seem to united in what they believe, but rather what they oppose which is why the religious right have an outsized influence, they at least know what they stand for. The same is true of Marxists on the left", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Most of us just want to be left alone to work out our stuff in peace and quiet, for a government to smoothen out the big bumps in the socioeconomic road and incur the smallest reasonable burden while doing so. What Menzies referred to as “The forgotten class”. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-22/tom-switzer-on-75-years-since-menzies-forgotten-people/8546742", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Thankfully in Australia the only way to hold government is to serve the interests of the centre, and I personally hope that never changes.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Who is \"they\"? Random person on Facebook? Majority of Liberal MPs? You?", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Again, please provide a source that shows a statistic of how many LNP voters support Trump now. Finding one in 2024 might be hard, but any since 2021 will be fine. You can keep making statements, but people aren’t going to believe them if they don’t align with their own experiences.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "In fact here’s an article showing that studies in 2019 found that roughly 75-80% of LNP voters support Hillary Clinton over Trump:", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/quiet-australians-are-not-trump-voters-20191218-p53l01", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Here’s one using a study from 2024 showing that Trump support is at record highs in Australia:", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "https://amp.smh.com.au/politics/federal/australia-is-losing-faith-in-america-but-support-for-trump-s-higher-than-ever-20240530-p5jhyx.html", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "What’s that record high? 29%, which is up from 23% in 2020, roughly when that first study was done. That’s also across all Australia, not just LNP voters. Yes, they’re more likely to be LNP voters then ALP voters, but they’re far more likely to vote for Pauline Hanson or Clive Palmer over the LNP.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "So yes, there’s some LNP voters who support Trump (which I have been acknowledging), but it’s far from the majority as I’ve been saying. Your own bubble isn’t rarely reflective of reality. Certainly not enough to make the sweeping statements you’ve been making which are clearly untrue when looking at actual data.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Edit:", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Cute to downvote me for actually posting the statistics disproving your argument.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Why are you so focused on individuals? My point was that anecdotes are mostly worthless when talking about many thousands of people over an entire country. Surely you're not now implying that I am a reflection of all Liberal party members? Dear God.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "You’re a paying member and can’t even answer this. Brother I don’t pay any party.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "I’m technically more free than you since I don’t give money to politics.", + "extra_info": "" + }, + { + "text": "Who was the federal government spending billions mate?", + "extra_info": "" + } +] \ No newline at end of file