"[{\"dialogue_id\" : \"0\"},{\"utterances\" :  [{\"speaker\": \"Devotee\",\n\"utterance\": \"  Bhagavan has said that without the grace of the Guru\r\none cannot attain the Self. What precisely does he mean by\r\nthis? What is this Guru?\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Maharshi\",\n\"utterance\": \"  From the stand point of the path of knowledge, it\r\nis the supreme state of the Self. It is different from the ego\r\nwhich you call yourself.\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Devotee\",\n\"utterance\": \"  Then, if it is the supreme state of my own self, in\r\nwhat sense does Bhagavan mean that I cannot reach it without\r\nthe grace of the Guru?\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Maharshi\",\n\"utterance\": \"  The ego is the individuality and is not the same as\r\nthe Lord of all. When it approaches the Lord with sincere\r\ndevotion, He graciously assumes name and form and takes\r\nit to Himself.Therefore they say that the Guru is none other\r\nthan the Lord. Heis the human embodiment of Divine Grace.\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Devotee\",\n\"utterance\": \"  But there are some who seem to have had no human\r\nGuru at all?\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Maharshi\",\n\"utterance\": \"  True. In the case of certain great souls, God reveals\r\nHimself as the Light of the Light from within.\r\n\"}] }{\"dialogue_id\" : \"1\"},{\"utterances\" :  [{\"speaker\": \"Devotee\",\n\"utterance\": \"  Some people report Maharshi to deny the need\r\nof a Guru. Others say the reverse. What does Maharshi say?\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Maharshi\",\n\"utterance\": \"  I have never said that there is no need for a Guru.\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Devotee\",\n\"utterance\": \"  Sri Aurobindo often refers to you as having had\r\nno Guru.\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Maharshi\",\n\"utterance\": \"  That depends on what you call Guru. He need not\r\nnecessarily bein human form. Dattatreya had twenty-four Gurus\r\n\u2013 the elements, and so on.That means that any form in the world\r\nwas his Guru. Guru is absolutely necessary.The Upanishads say\r\nthat none but a Guru can take a man out of the jungle of mental\r\nand sense perceptions, so there must be a Guru.\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Devotee\",\n\"utterance\": \"  I mean a human Guru.The Maharshi didn\u2019t have\r\none.\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Maharshi\",\n\"utterance\": \" I might have had at sometime or other.And didn\u2019t I sing\r\nhymns to Arunachala? What is a Guru? Guru is God orthe Self.\r\nFirst a man prays to God to fulfil his desires, then a time comes\r\nwhen he does not pray for the fulfilment of a desire, but for God\r\nHimself. So God appears to him in some form or other, human\r\nor non-human, to guide him as a Guru in answer to his prayer.\r\n\"}] }{\"dialogue_id\" : \"2\"},{\"utterances\" :  [{\"speaker\": \"Devotee\",\n\"utterance\": \" Can one derive any benefit from repeating incantations\r\npicked up casually, without being initiated into them?\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Maharshi\",\n\"utterance\": \"  No. One must be initiated into them and authorised\r\nto use them.\r\nA king once visited his minister at the latter\u2019s house.\r\nThere he was told that the minister was busy with his\r\nincantations.The king accordingly waited for him, and when\r\nhe was free to meet him, asked him what incantation it was.\r\nThe minister told him that it was the Gayatri.The king then\r\nasked the minister to initiate him into the use of it, but the\r\nlatter declared that he was unable to. Thereupon the king\r\nlearnt it from someone else and the next time he met the\r\nminister he repeated it to him and asked him whether it was\r\nright.The minister replied that theincantation was right but\r\nthat it was not right for him to say it. The king asked why;\r\nthe minister called an attendant who was standing nearby\r\nand told him to arrest the king. The order was not obeyed.\r\nThe minister repeated it and still it was not obeyed.The king\r\nthen flew into a temper and ordered the attendant to arrest\r\nthe minister, which heimmediately did.The minister laughed\r\nand said that that was theexplanation the king had asked for.\r\n\u2018How?\u2019 the king asked.\r\n\u2018Because the order was the same, and the executive was\r\nthesame but the authority was different. When I pronounced\r\nthe order there was no effect; but when you did it, the effect\r\nwas immediate. It is the same with incantation.\r\n\"}] }{\"dialogue_id\" : \"3\"},{\"utterances\" :  [{\"speaker\": \"Devotee\",\n\"utterance\": \"  What arethe distinctive characteristics of a Guru by\r\nwhich one can recognise him?\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Maharshi\",\n\"utterance\": \"  The Guru is one who at all times abides in the\r\nprofound depths of the Self. He never sees any difference\r\nbetween himself and others and is quite free from the idea\r\nthat he is the Enlightened or the Liberated One, while those\r\naround him arein bondage or the darkness of ignorance. His\r\nself-possession can never be shaken under any circumstances\r\nand he is never perturbed.\r\n\"}] }{\"dialogue_id\" : \"4\"},{\"utterances\" :  [{\"speaker\": \"Devotee\",\n\"utterance\": \"  What is the essential nature of upadesa or spiritual\r\ninstruction given by the Guru?\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Maharshi\",\n\"utterance\": \" The word upadesa literally means \u2018restoring an object\r\nto its proper place\u2019.The mind of the disciple, having become\r\ndifferentiated from its true and primal state of Pure Being,\r\nwhich is the Self and which is described in the scriptures\r\nas Sat-chit-ananda (Being-Consciousness-Bliss), slips away\r\ntherefrom and, assuming the form of thought, constantly\r\npursues objects of sense-gratification. Therefore it is assailed\r\nby the vicissitudes of life and becomes weak and dispirited.\r\nUpadesa consists in the Guru restoring it to its primal state\r\nand preventing it from slipping away from the state of Pure\r\nBeing, of absolute identity with the Self or, in other words,\r\nthe Being of the Guru.\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Devotee\",\n\"utterance\": \" If, as this implies,the real being ofthe Guru isidentical\r\nwith that of the disciple, why have the scriptures categorically\r\ndeclared that, however great powers one may attain, he cannot\r\nattain Self-realisation without the grace of the Guru?\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Maharshi\",\n\"utterance\": \"  It is true that the being of the Guru is identical with\r\nthat of the disciple; however, it is very seldom that a person\r\ncan realise his true Being without the grace of the Guru.\r\n\"}] }{\"dialogue_id\" : \"5\"},{\"utterances\" :  [{\"speaker\": \"Devotee\",\n\"utterance\": \"  Is it not really the bodily individual that is the Guru?\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Maharshi\",\n\"utterance\": \"  What is your idea of a Guru? You think of him in\r\nhuman shape as a body of certain dimensions, complexion,\r\nand so on. A disciple, after Realisation once said to his Guru:\r\n\u2018I now realise that you dwelt in my innermost heart as the one\r\nReality in all my countless births and have now come before\r\nmeis human shape and lifted this veil of ignorance. What can\r\nI do for you in return for such a great benefit?\u2019 And the Guru\r\nreplied: \u2018You need not do anything. It isenough if you remain\r\nas you arein your true state.\u2019That is thetruth about the Guru.\r\n\"}] }{\"dialogue_id\" : \"6\"},{\"utterances\" :  [{\"speaker\": \"Devotee\",\n\"utterance\": \"  What is the Grace of the Guru?\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Maharshi\",\n\"utterance\": \"  The Guru is the Self. At some time a man grows\r\ndissatisfied with his life and, not content with what he has,\r\nseeks the satisfaction of his desires through prayer to God.\r\nHis mind is gradually purified until he longs to know God,\r\nmore to obtain His Grace than to satisfy worldly desires.\r\nThen God\u2019s grace begins to manifest. God takes the form of\r\na Guru and appears to the devotee, teaches him the Truth\r\nand, moreover, purifies his mind by association with him.The\r\ndevotee\u2019s mind thus gains strength and is then able to turn\r\ninward. By meditation it is further purified until it remains\r\ncalm without the least ripple. That calm Expanse is the Self.\r\n\r\nThe Guru is both outer and inner. From outside he\r\ngives a push to the mind to turn inward while from inside\r\nhe pulls the mind towards the Self and helps in quieting\r\nit. That is the Grace of the Guru. There is no difference\r\nbetween God, Guru and Self.\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Devotee\",\n\"utterance\": \"  In the Theosophical Society they meditate in order\r\nto seek masters to guide them.\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Maharshi\",\n\"utterance\": \" The master is within; meditation is meant to remove\r\nthe ignorant idea that he is only external. If he were some\r\nstranger whom you awaited, he would be bound to disappear\r\nalso. What would be the use of a transient being like that?\r\nBut as long as you think you are separate or that you are the\r\nbody, so long is the outer master also necessary and he will\r\nappear as if with a body. When the wrong identification of\r\nyourself with the body ceases, the master will be found to be\r\nnone other than the Self.\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Devotee\",\n\"utterance\": \"  Will the Guru help us to know the Self through\r\ninitiation, and so on?\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Maharshi\",\n\"utterance\": \"  Does the Guru hold you by the hand and whisper in\r\nyour ear? You may imagine him to be what you are yourself.\r\nBecause you think you have a body, you think that he has\r\nalso and that he will do something tangible to you. His work\r\nlies within, in the spiritual realm.\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Devotee\",\n\"utterance\": \"  How is the Guru found?\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Maharshi\",\n\"utterance\": \"  God, who is immanent, in His Grace takes pity on\r\nthe loving devotee and manifests Himself according to the\r\ndevotee\u2019s development. The devotee thinks that he is a man\r\nand expects a relationship as between two physical bodies.\r\nBut the Guru who is God or the Self incarnate, works from\r\nwithin, helps the man to see his mistakes and guides him in\r\nthe right path until he realises the Self within.\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Devotee\",\n\"utterance\": \"  What should the devotee do then?\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Maharshi\",\n\"utterance\": \"  He has only to act according to the words of the\r\nmaster and work inwardly. The master is both \u2018within\u2019 an\r\n\u2018without\u2019, so he creates conditions to drive you inward and\r\nat the same time prepares the \u2018interior\u2019 to drag you to the\r\nCentre. Thus he gives a push from \u2018without\u2019 and exerts a pull\r\nfrom \u2018within\u2019 so that you may be fixed at the Centre.\r\nYou think that the world can be conquered by your own\r\nefforts. When you are frustrated externally and are driven\r\ninwards you feel, \u2018Oh, there is a power higher than man.\u2019\r\nTheego is a very powerful elephant which cannot be brought\r\nunder control by any creatureless powerful than a lion, which,\r\nin this instance, is none other than the Guru, whose very looks\r\nmake the elephant-like ego tremble and die. You will know\r\nin due course that your glory lies where you cease to exist. In\r\norder to gain that state, you should surrender yourself. Then\r\nthe master sees that you are in a fit state to receive guidance\r\nand He guides you.\r\n\"}] }{\"dialogue_id\" : \"7\"},{\"utterances\" :  [{\"speaker\": \"Devotee\",\n\"utterance\": \"  What is the significance of saying that the Guru is the\r\nmanifestation of God or Self?\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Maharshi\",\n\"utterance\": \"  So long as you seek Self-realisation, the Guru is\r\nnecessary. Guru is the Self. Take Guru to be the real Self,\r\nand yourself to be the individual self. The disappearance of\r\nthis sense of duality is the removal of ignorance. So long as\r\nduality persists in you, the Guru is necessary. Because you\r\nidentify yourself with the body, you think the Guru too is\r\nthe body. You are not the body, nor is the Guru. You are the\r\nSelf and so is the Guru. This knowledge is gained by what\r\nyou call Self-realisation.\r\nYou mistake the body for the Guru. But the Guru himself\r\ndoes not make that mistake. He is the formless Self. That is\r\nwithin you. He appears outwardly only to guide you.\r\n\"}] }{\"dialogue_id\" : \"8\"},{\"utterances\" :  [{\"speaker\": \"Devotee\",\n\"utterance\": \"  Isn\u2019t grace the gift of the Guru?\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Maharshi\",\n\"utterance\": \"  God, Grace and Guru are allsynonymous and are both\r\neternal and immanent. Isn\u2019t the Self already within? Is it for\r\nthe Guru to bestow it by his look? If a Guru thinks so, he does\r\nnot deserve that name. The books say there are many kinds of\r\ninitiation. They also say that the Guru performs various rites\r\nwith fire, water, incantations and so on, and call such fantastic\r\nperformances initiation, as if the disciple became ripe only after\r\nsuch processes were gone through by the Guru.\r\nIf the individual is sought, he is nowhere to be found.\r\nSuch is the Guru. Such is Dakshinamurthi. What did he\r\ndo? He sat silent. The disciples appeared before him. He\r\nmaintained silence, and their doubts were dispelled, which\r\nmeans they lost their individual identities. Jnana (spiritual\r\nknowledge) is that silent understanding and not the verbal\r\ndefinitions that are usually given for it. Silence is the most\r\npotent form of work. However vast and emphatic the\r\nscriptures may be, they fail in their effect. The Guru is quiet\r\nand peace prevails in all. His silence is vaster and more\r\nemphatic than all thescriptures put together.These questions\r\narise because of the feeling that, in spite of having been here\r\nso long, heard so much, striven so hard, you have not gained\r\nanything.The process that goes on inside you is not apparent\r\nto you. In fact, the Guru is always within you.\r\n\"}] }{\"dialogue_id\" : \"9\"},{\"utterances\" :  [{\"speaker\": \"Devotee\",\n\"utterance\": \"  It is said that one look of a Mahatma isenough; that\r\nidols, pilgrimages, and so on, are not so effective; but I have\r\nbeen here for three months and still do not know how I have\r\nbeen benefitted by the look of the Maharshi.\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Maharshi\",\n\"utterance\": \"  The look has a purifying effect. Purification cannot\r\nbe visualised. Just as a piece of coal takes a long time to\r\nignite and a piece of charcoal a shorter time, while a heap of\r\ngun powder is ignited instantaneously, so it is with different\r\ntypes of men coming in contact with a Mahatma.\r\n\"}] }{\"dialogue_id\" : \"10\"},{\"utterances\" :  [{\"speaker\": \"Devotee\",\n\"utterance\": \"  After leaving this Asramam in October, I was aware\r\nof Bhagavan\u2019s peace enfolding me for about ten days. All the\r\ntime, while busy with work, there was an undercurrent of\r\nthat peace of unity; it was almost like the dual consciousness\r\nwhile half asleep in a dull lecture. Then it faded out entirely\r\nand the old stupidities came instead.\r\nWork leaves no time for separate meditation. Is the\r\nconstant reminder \u2018I am\u2019 and trying to feel this while actually\r\nat work enough?\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Maharshi\",\n\"utterance\": \" Itwill become constant when the mind is strengthened.\r\nRepeated practice strengthens the mind, and such a mind is\r\ncapable of holding on to the current.\r\nThen, whether you are engaged in work or not, the\r\ncurrent remains unaffected and uninterrupted.\r\n\"}] }{\"dialogue_id\" : \"11\"},{\"utterances\" :  [{\"speaker\": \"Devotee\",\n\"utterance\": \"  Bhagavan says he has no disciples?\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Maharshi\",\n\"utterance\": \"  Yes.\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Devotee\",\n\"utterance\": \"  He also says that a Guru is necessary if one wishes\r\nto attain liberation.\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Maharshi\",\n\"utterance\": \"  Yes.\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Devotee\",\n\"utterance\": \"  What then must I do? Has my sitting here all these\r\nyears been just a waste of time? Must I go and look for some\r\nGuru in order to receiveinitiation, seeing that Bhagavan says\r\nhe is not a Guru?\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Maharshi\",\n\"utterance\": \"  What do you think brought you here such a long\r\ndistance and made you remain here so long? Why do you\r\ndoubt? If there had been any need to seek a Guru elsewhere,\r\nyou would have gone away long ago. The Guru or Jnani\r\n(Enlightened One) sees no difference between himself and\r\nothers. For him all areJnanis, all are one with himself, so how\r\ncan a Jnani say that such-and-such is his disciple? But the\r\nunliberated onesees all as multiple, hesees all as different from\r\nhimself, so to him the Guru-disciple relationship is a reality.\r\nFor him there arethree ways of initiation: by touch, look and\r\nsilence. (Sri Bhagavan here gave the disciple to understand that \r\nhis way was by silence, as he has to many on other occasions.)\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Devotee\",\n\"utterance\": \"  Then Bhagavan does have disciples?\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Maharshi\",\n\"utterance\": \"  As I said, from Bhagavan\u2019s point of view there are\r\nno disciples, but from that of the disciple, the Grace of the\r\nGuru is like an ocean. If he comes with a cup he will get only\r\na cupful. It is no use complaining of the niggardliness of the\r\nocean; the bigger the vessel the more he will be able to carry.\r\nIt is entirely up to him.\r\n\"}] }{\"dialogue_id\" : \"12\"},{\"utterances\" :  [{\"speaker\": \"Devotee\",\n\"utterance\": \"  Can Sri Bhagavan help us to realise the Truth?\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Maharshi\",\n\"utterance\": \"  Help is always there.\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Devotee\",\n\"utterance\": \" Then, there is no need to ask questions. I do not feel\r\nthe ever-present help.\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Maharshi\",\n\"utterance\": \"  Surrender and you will find it.\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Devotee\",\n\"utterance\": \"  I am always at your feet. Will Bhagavan give me\r\nsome upadesa to follow? Otherwise how can I get the help,\r\nliving six hundred miles away?\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Maharshi\",\n\"utterance\": \"  The Sad-Guru is within.\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Devotee\",\n\"utterance\": \" The Sad-Guru is necessary to guide me to understand\r\nthat fact.\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Maharshi\",\n\"utterance\": \"  The Sad-Guru is within you.\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Devotee\",\n\"utterance\": \"  I want a visible Guru.\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Maharshi\",\n\"utterance\": \"  That visible Guru says that he is within.\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Devotee\",\n\"utterance\": \"  Will the Sad-Guru place his hand on my head to\r\nassure me of his help? Then I shall have the consolation of\r\nknowing that his promise will be fulfilled.\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Maharshi\",\n\"utterance\": \"  Next you will be asking me for a bond and filing a\r\nsuit if you imagine that the help is not forthcoming.\r\n\"}] }{\"dialogue_id\" : \"13\"},{\"utterances\" :  [{\"speaker\": \"Devotee\",\n\"utterance\": \"  How can one know whether a particular person is\r\ncompetent to be a Guru?\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Maharshi\",\n\"utterance\": \"  By the peace of mind you feel in his presence and by\r\nthe respect you feel for him.\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Devotee\",\n\"utterance\": \"  And if it turns out that he is not competent, what\r\nwill be the fate of the disciple who has implicit faith in him?\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Maharshi\",\n\"utterance\": \"  The fate of each one will be according to his merit.\r\n\"}] }{\"dialogue_id\" : \"14\"},{\"utterances\" :  [{\"speaker\": \"Devotee\",\n\"utterance\": \"  what is the difference\r\nbetween Jivanmukti (Realisation while in the body) and\r\nVidehamukti (Realisation after death)?\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Maharshi\",\n\"utterance\": \" There is no difference. For those who ask, it is said: A\r\nJnani with a body is a Jivanmukta and he attains Videhamukti\r\nwhen he sheds the body. But this difference exists only for the\r\nonlooker, not for the Jnani. His state is the same before and\r\nafter the body is dropped. We think of the Jnani as a human\r\nform or as being in that form; but he knows that he is the\r\nSelf, the one reality which is both inside and out, and which\r\nis not bounded by any form or shape. There is a verse in the\r\nBhagavata (here Bhagavan quoted the verse in Tamil) which\r\nsays: Just as a man who is drunk is not conscious whether his\r\nupper cloth is on his body or has slipped away from it, theJnani\r\nis hardly conscious of his body, and it makes no difference to\r\nhim whether the body remains or has dropped off.\r\n\"}] }{\"dialogue_id\" : \"15\"},{\"utterances\" :  [{\"speaker\": \"Devotee\",\n\"utterance\": \"  Bhagavan says: \u2018The influence of the Jnani steals\r\ninto the devotee in silence\u2019. Bhagavan also says: \u2018Contact with\r\ngreat men, exalted souls, is one efficacious means of realising\r\none\u2019s true being.\u2019\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Maharshi\",\n\"utterance\": \"  Yes. What is the contradiction? Jnani, great men,\r\nexalted souls \u2013 does he differentiate between them?\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Devotee\",\n\"utterance\": \"  no.\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Maharshi\",\n\"utterance\": \"  Contact with them is good. They will work through\r\nsilence. By speaking, their power is reduced. Speech is always\r\nless powerful than silence. So silent contact is the best.\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Devotee\",\n\"utterance\": \"  Does the contact continueeven after the dissolution\r\nof the physical body of the Jnani or only so long as he is in\r\nflesh and blood?\r\n\"},{\"speaker\": \"Maharshi\",\n\"utterance\": \" The Guru is not in the physical form. So contact will\r\nremain even after his physical form vanishes.\r\nHe who has earned the grace of the Guru will\r\nundoubtedly be saved and never forsaken, just as the prey that\r\nhas fallen into the tiger\u2019s jaw will never be allowed to escape.\r\n\"}] }]"