Professor B: Are we on ? We 're on . OK .PhD E: Is it on ?PhD D: Yeah .Professor B: Yeah . OK ,PhD D: One , two {disfmarker} u OK .PhD A: Why is it so cold in here ?Professor B: so , uh , we haven't sent around theagenda . So , i uh , any agenda items anybody has , wants to talk about , what 's going on ?Postdoc G: I c I could talk about the meeting .Grad H: Does everyone {disfmarker} has everyone met Don ?Postdoc G: Yeah.Professor B: It 's on ?PhD C: Now , yeah .PhD D: Yeah .Grad H: Yeah ? OK .PhD D: Yeah .Grad F: Hello .Professor B: OK , agenda item one ,PhD D: We went {disfmarker}Grad F: Yeah .Professor B: introduce Don . OK, we did that . Uh {disfmarker}PhD A: Well , I had a {disfmarker} just a quick question but I know there was discussion of it at a previous meeting that I missed , but just about the {disfmarker} the wish list item ofgetting good quality close - talking mikes on every speaker .Professor B: OK , so let 's {disfmarker} let 's {disfmarker} So let 's just do agenda {pause} building right now . OK , so let 's talk about that a bit .PhD A: Imean , that was {disfmarker}Professor B: Uh , @ @ tuss close talking mikes , better quality . OK , {vocalsound} uh , we can talk about that . You were gonna {disfmarker} starting to say something ?Postdoc G: Well ,you {disfmarker} you , um , already know about the meeting {comment} that 's coming up and I don't know if {disfmarker} if this is appropriate for this . I don't know . I mean , maybe {disfmarker} maybe it 'ssomething we should handle outside of the meeting .Professor B: No , no , that 's OK .PhD E: What meeting ?Professor B: We can {disfmarker} so {disfmarker} we can ta so n NIST is {disfmarker} NIST folks arecoming by next weekPostdoc G: OK .Professor B: and so we can talk about that .Postdoc G: Yeah .Professor B: I thinkPhD E: Who 's coming ?Professor B: Uh , uh , John FiscusPostdoc G: Mm - hmm .Professor B: and ,uh , I think George Doddington will be around as well . Uh , OK , so we can talk about that . Uh , I guess just hear about how things are going with , uh , uh , the transcriptions . That 's right .Postdoc G: Sure . Mm -hmm .Professor B: That would sorta be an obvious thing to discuss . Um , An - anything else , uh , strike anybody ?PhD A: Uh , we started {pause} running recognition on {pause} one conversation but it 's the r{pause} isn't working yet . So , But if anyone has {disfmarker}Professor B: OK .PhD E: WhaPhD A: uh , the main thing would be if anyone has , um , knowledge about ways to , uh , post - process the wave forms thatwould give us better recognition , that would be helpful to know about .Professor B: Um ,Grad H: Dome yeah , it sounds like a topic of conversation .Professor B: Yeah , so , uh {disfmarker}PhD E: What about , uh , isthere anything new with the speech , nonspeech stuff ?PhD C: Yeah , we 're working more on it but , {vocalsound} it 's not finished .Professor B: OK . Alright , that seems like a {disfmarker} a good collection of things .And we 'll undoubtedly think of {pause} other things .Postdoc G: I had thought under my topic that I would mention the , uh , four items that I {disfmarker} I , uh , put out for being on the agenda f on that meeting ,which includes like the pre - segmentation and the {disfmarker} and the developments in multitrans .Professor B: Oh , under the NIST meeting .Postdoc G: Yeah , under the NIST thing .Professor B: OK .Postdoc G:Yeah .Professor B: Alright , why don't we start off with this , u u I guess the order we brought them up seems fine .Postdoc G: Yeah .Professor B: Um , so , better quality close talking mikes . So the one issue was thatthe {disfmarker} the , uh , lapel mike , uh , isn't as good as you would like . And so , uh , it {disfmarker} it 'd be better if we had close talking mikes for everybody . Right ?PhD A: Ri - um ,Professor B: Is that{disfmarker} is that basically the point ?PhD A: yeah , the {disfmarker} And actually in addition to that , that the {disfmarker} the close talking mikes are worn in such a way as to best capture the signal . And thereason here is just that for the people doing work not on microphones but on sort of like dialogue and so forth , uh {disfmarker} or and even on prosody , which Don is gonna be working on soon , it adds this extra , youknow , vari variable for each speaker to {disfmarker} to deal with when the microphones aren't similar .Professor B: Mm - hmm .Grad H: Right .PhD A: So {disfmarker} And I also talked to Mari this morning and shealso had a strong preference for doing that . And in fact she said that that 's useful for them to know in starting to collect their data too .Professor B: Mm - hmm . Right , so one thGrad H: Well , so{disfmarker}Professor B: uh , well one thing I was gonna say was that , um , i we could get more , uh , of the head mounted microphones even beyond the number of radio channels we have because I think whether it's radio or wire is probably second - order . And the main thing is having the microphone close to you ,PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor B: u although , not too close .Grad H: Right , so , uh , actually the way Jose is wearinghis is {disfmarker} is c {pause} correct .PhD D: Yeah . Is {disfmarker}Grad H: The good way . So you want to {disfmarker}Professor B: Yeah .PhD D: I it 's not cor it 's correct ?Professor B: Is .Grad H: Yeah , th that 'sgood .Professor B: Yes .PhD D: Yeah .Grad H: So it 's towards the corner of your mouth so that breath sounds don't get on it .PhD D: Yeah . Yeah .Grad H: And then just sort of about , uh , a thumb or {disfmarker} athumb and a half away from your {disfmarker} from your mouth .PhD D: Yeah . Yeah . Uh , yeah .Professor B: Right .PhD A: But we have more than one type of {disfmarker}Professor B: How am I dPhD A: I mean , forinstance , you 're {disfmarker}PhD C: Yeah .Grad H: And this one isn't very adjustable ,PhD D: Yeah .Grad H: so this about as good as I can getPhD A: Right .PhD D: Yeah .Grad H: cuz it 's a fixed boom .PhD D: Is fixed. Yeah .PhD A: But if we could actually standardize , you know , the {disfmarker} the microphones , uh , as much as possible that would be really helpful .Professor B: Yeah .PhD E: Mm - hmm .PhD D: Yeah .Grad H:Mm - hmm .Professor B: Well , I mean it doesn't hurt to have a few extra microphones around ,PhD D: Yeah .Professor B: so why don't we just go out and {disfmarker} and get an order of {disfmarker} of if thismicrophone seems OK to people , uh , I 'd just get a half dozen of these things .Grad H: Well the onl the only problem with that is right now , um , some of the Jimlets aren't working . The little {disfmarker} the boxesunder the table .Professor B: Yeah .Grad H: And so , w Uh , I 've only been able to find three jacks that are working .Professor B: Yeah .PhD E: Can we get these , wireless ?Grad H: So {disfmarker}Professor B: No , butmy point is {disfmarker}PhD A: But y we could just record these signals separately and time align them with the start of the meeting .Professor B: R r right {disfmarker}Grad H: I {disfmarker} I 'm not sure I 'm follow .Say that again ?Professor B: Right now , we 've got , uh , two microphones in the room , that are not quote - unquote standard . So why don't we replace those {disfmarker}Grad H: OK , just two .Professor B: Well ,however many we can plug in . You know , if we can plug in three , let 's plug in three .Grad H: OK .PhD D: Mm - yeah .Professor B: Also what we 've talked before about getting another , uh , radio ,Grad H: Right.Professor B: and so then that would be , you know , three {pause} more .Grad H: Right . OK .PhD D: Mm - hmm .Professor B: So , uh {disfmarker} so we should go out to our full complement of whatever we can do ,but have them all be the same mike . I think the original reason that it was done the other way was because , it w it was sort of an experimental thing and I don't think anybody knew whether people would rather havemore variety or {disfmarker} {vocalsound} or , uh , more uniformity ,PhD A: Right .Professor B: but {disfmarker} @ @ {comment} but uh , sounds {disfmarker} sounds fine .Grad H: Sounds like uniformity wins .PhDD: Right .PhD A: Well , for short term research it 's just {disfmarker} there 's just so much effort that would have to be done up front n uh ,Professor B: Yeah .Grad H: Well {disfmarker}PhD A: so {disfmarker} yeah ,uniformity would be great .Grad H: Yeah .PhD E: Is it because {disfmarker} You {disfmarker} you 're saying the {disfmarker} for dialogue purposes , so that means that the transcribers are having trouble with thosemikes ? Is that what you mean ?PhD A: Well Jane would know more about the transcribers .PhD E: Or {disfmarker} ?Postdoc G: And that 's true . I mean , I {disfmarker} we did discuss this . Uh , and {disfmarker} and{disfmarker}Grad H: Yep . Couple times .Postdoc G: a couple times , so , um , yeah , the transcribers notice {disfmarker} And in fact there 're some where , um {disfmarker} ugh well , I mean there 's {disfmarker} it's the double thing . It 's the equipment and also how it 's worn .PhD A: Right .Postdoc G: And he 's always {disfmarker} they always {disfmarker} they just rave about how wonderful Adam 's {disfmarker} Adam 'schannel is .Grad H: What can I say .Postdoc G: And then ,PhD A: So does the recognizer .Professor B: Yeah .Postdoc G: Yeah .Grad H: Oh , really ? Yeah , I 'm not surprised . I mean , " Baaah ! "PhD A: Even if{disfmarker} if you 're talking on someone else 's mike it 's still {pause} you wPostdoc G: Yeah , but I mean it 's not just that , it 's also you know youProfessor B: Yeah .PhD C: Yeah .Postdoc G: It 's also like n nobreathing , no {disfmarker} You know , it 's like it 's {disfmarker} it 's um ,Professor B: Yeah .Postdoc G: it 's really {disfmarker} {nonvocalsound} it makes a big difference from the transcribers ' point of viewGrad H:Yeah , it 's an advantage when you don't breath .Postdoc G: and also from the research s point of view .PhD A: Right .Professor B: When we 're doing {disfmarker}Grad H: Yeah , I think that the point of doing the closetalking mike is to get a good quality signal . We 're not doing research on close talking mikes .Postdoc G: Yeah .Professor B: Yeah .Grad H: So we might as well get it as uniform as we can .PhD A: Right .Professor B:Now , this is locking the barn door after the horse was stolen . We do have thirty hours , of {disfmarker} of speech , which is done this way .Grad H: Yeah .PhD A: That 's OK .Professor B: But {disfmarker} but , uh ,yeah , for future ones we can get it a bit more uniform .PhD A: Great , great .Grad H: So I think just do a field trip at some point .Professor B: Yeah , probably {disfmarker} yeah , to the store we talked about and that{disfmarker}Grad H: Yep .Postdoc G: And there was some talk about , uh , maybe the h headphones that are uncomfortable for people , to {disfmarker}Grad H: Yep . So , as {disfmarker} as I said , we 'll do a field tripand see if we can get all of the same mike that 's more comfortable than {disfmarker} than these things , which I think are horrible .Postdoc G: OK . Good .Grad H: So .PhD A: Great , thank you very much .PhD E:Especially for people with big heads .PhD A: It 's makes our job a lot easier .Professor B: OK . OK .Grad H: And , you know , we 're researchers , so we all have big heads .Professor B: OK .PhD E: Yeah .Professor B:Yeah . Uh , OK , second item was the , uh , NIST visit , and what 's going on there .Postdoc G: Yeah . OK , so , um , uh , Jonathan Fiscus is coming on the second of February and I 've spoken with , uh , {pause} u u alot of people here , not everyone . Um , and , um , he expressed an interest in seeing the room and in , um , seeing a demonstration of the modified multitrans , which I 'll mention in a second , and also , um , he wasinterested in the pre - segmentation and then he 's also interested in the transcription conventions .Grad H: Mm - hmm .Postdoc G: And , um {disfmarker} So , um , it seems to me in terms of like , um , i i it wou Youknow , OK . So the room , it 's things like the audio and c and audi audio and acoustic {disfmarker} acoustic properties of the room and how it {disfmarker} how the recordings are done , and that kind of thing . And ,um . OK , in terms of the multi - trans , well that {disfmarker} that 's being modified by Dave Gelbart to , uh , handle multi - channel recording .Grad H: Oh , I should 've {disfmarker} I was just thinking I should haveinvited him to this meeting . I forgot to do it .Postdoc G: Yeah , OK .Grad H: So .PhD C: Yeah .Postdoc G: Yeah . Well that 's OK , I mean we 'll {disfmarker}Grad H: Sorry .Postdoc G: Yeah , and it 's t and it looks reallygreat . He {disfmarker} he has a prototype . I {disfmarker} I , uh , @ @ {comment} didn't {disfmarker} didn't see it , uh , yesterday but I 'm going to see it today . And , uh , that 's {disfmarker} that will enable us todo {pause} nice um , tight time marking of the beginning and ending of overlapping segments . At present it 's not possible with limitations of {disfmarker} of the , uh , original {pause} design of the software . And um. So , I don't know . In terms of , like , pre - segmentation , that {disfmarker} that continues to be , um , a terrific asset to the {disfmarker} to the transcribers . Do you {disfmarker} I know that you 're al alsosupplementing it further . Do you want to mention something about that c Thilo , or {disfmarker} ?PhD C: Um , yeah . What {disfmarker} what I 'm doing right now is I 'm trying to include some information aboutwhich channel , uh , there 's some speech in . But that 's not working at the moment . I 'm just trying to do this by comparing energies , uh {disfmarker} normalizing energies and comparing energies of the differentchannels .Postdoc G: OK .PhD C: And so to {disfmarker} to give the transcribers some information in which channel there 's {disfmarker} there 's speech in addition to {disfmarker} to the thing we {disfmarker} we didnow which is just , uh , speech - nonspeech detection on the mixed file . So I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm relying on {disfmarker} on the segmentation of the mixed filePostdoc G: This is good . Mm - hmm .PhD C: but I 'm{disfmarker} I 'm trying to subdivide the speech portions into different portions if there is some activity in {disfmarker} in different channels .Postdoc G: Excellent , so this 'd be like w e providing also speaker ID{pause} potentially .PhD C: But {disfmarker} Yeah . Yeah .Postdoc G: Wonderful . Wonderful .Professor B: Um , something I guess I didn't put in the list but , uh , on that , uh , same day later on in {disfmarker} ormaybe it 's {disfmarker} No , actually {pause} it 's this week , uh , Dave Gelbart and I will be , uh , visiting with John Canny who i you know , is a CS professor ,Postdoc G: Oh .Professor B: who 's interested in ar inarray microphones .Grad H: HCC . Oh , he 's doing array mikes .Professor B: Yeah . And so we wanna see what commonality there is here . You know , maybe they 'd wanna stick an array mike here when we 're doingthingsPhD E: That would be cool .Grad H: Yeah , that would be neat .Professor B: or {disfmarker} or maybe it 's {disfmarker} it 's not a specific array microphone they wantPhD D: Yeah .PhD E: That would be reallyneat .Professor B: but they might wanna just , {disfmarker} uh , you know , you could imagine them taking the four signals from these {disfmarker} these table mikes and trying to do something with them{disfmarker} Um , I also had a discussion {disfmarker} So , w uh , we 'll be over {disfmarker} over there talking with him , um , after class on Friday . Um , we 'll let you know what {disfmarker} what goes with that .Also had a completely unrelated thing . I had a , uh , discussion today with , uh , Birger Kollmeier who 's a , uh , a German , uh , scientist who 's got a fair sized group {vocalsound} doing a range of things . It 's sort ofauditory related , largely for hearing aids and so on . But {disfmarker} but , uh , he does stuff with auditory models and he 's very interested in directionality , and location , and {disfmarker} and , uh , head models and{pause} microphone things . And so , uh , he 's {disfmarker} he and possibly a student , there w there 's , uh , a student of his who gave a talk here last year , uh , may come here , uh , in the fall for , uh , sort of afive month , uh , sabbatical . So he might be around . Get him to give some talks and so on . But anyway , he might be interested in {pause} this stuff .PhD D: Mm - hmm .PhD E: That {disfmarker} that reminds me , Ihad a {disfmarker} a thought of an interesting project that somebody could try to do with {pause} the data from here , either using , you know , the {disfmarker} the mikes on the table or using signal energies fromthe head worn mikes ,PhD D: Mm - hmm .PhD E: and that is to try to construct a map of where people were sitting ,Professor B: Right .PhD D: Uh - huh .PhD E: uh , based on {disfmarker}Grad H: Well Dan{disfmarker} Dan had worked on that . Dan Ellis ,PhD D: Uh - huh .PhD E: Oh , did he ? Oh , that 's interesting .Grad H: yeah . So that {disfmarker} that 's the cross - correlation stuff , was {disfmarker} was doing bbeam - forming .PhD D: Yeah .PhD E: And so you could plot out who was sitting next to whoProfessor B: A little bit ,PhD E: and {disfmarker}Professor B: I mean , he didn't do a very extreme thing but just {disfmarker}it was just sort ofPhD D: Yeah , yeah .Grad H: No , he did start on it .Professor B: e e given that , the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the block of wood with the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the two mikes {comment}on either side ,Grad H: Mm - hmm .Professor B: if I 'm speaking , or if you 're speaking , or someone over there is speaking , it {disfmarker} if you look at cross - correlation functions , you end up with a{disfmarker}PhD D: Yeah .Professor B: if {disfmarker} if someone who was on the axis between the two is talking , then you {disfmarker} you get a big peak there . And if {disfmarker} if someone 's talking on{disfmarker} on {disfmarker} on , uh , one side or the other , it goes the other way .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor B: And then , uh , it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it even looks different if th t if the two {disfmarker}two people on either side are talking than if one in the middle . It {disfmarker} it actually looks somewhat different , so .PhD E: Hmm . Well I was just thinking , you know , as I was sitting here next to Thilo that um ,when he 's talking , my mike probably picks it up better than {pause} your guys 's mikes .PhD C: Yeah .PhD D: Yeah .PhD E: So if you just looked at {disfmarker}Grad H: Oh , that 's another cl cue ,PhD D: Yeah .PhDE: yeah , {comment} looked at {comment} the energy on my mike and you could get an idea about who 's closest to who .Grad H: that 's true .PhD D: Yeah .Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD D: Yeah .Professor B: Right.PhD D: Yeah .PhD E: And {disfmarker}Grad H: Or who talks the loudest .PhD C: Yeah .PhD D: Yeah .Professor B: Yeah , well you have to {disfmarker} the appropriate normalizations are tricky , and {disfmarker} and{disfmarker} and are probably the key .Grad H: Yeah .PhD C: Yeah .PhD A: You just search for Adam 's voice on each individual microphone , you pretty much know where everybody 's sitting .PhD C: Yeah .ProfessorB: Yeah . We 've switched positions recently so you can't {disfmarker} Anyway . OK . So those are just a little couple of news items .Postdoc G: Can I ask one thing ? Uh , so , um , Jonathan Fiscus expressed an interestin , uh , microphone arrays .Professor B: Yes .Postdoc G: Um , is there {disfmarker} I mean {disfmarker} b And I also want to say , his {disfmarker} he can't stay all day . He needs to uh , leave for {disfmarker} uh ,from here to make a two forty - five flightGrad H: Oh , so just morning .Postdoc G: from {disfmarker} from Oakland .Professor B: Right .Postdoc G: So it makes the scheduling a little bit tight but do you think that , um{disfmarker} that , uh , i John Canny should be involved in this somehow or not . I have no idea .Professor B: Probably not but I {disfmarker} I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll know better after I see him thisFriday what {disfmarker} what kind of level he wants to get involved .Postdoc G: It 's premature . Fine . Good .Professor B: Uh , he might be excited to and it might be very appropriate for him to , uh , or he might haveno interest whatsoever . I {disfmarker} I just really don't know .Postdoc G: OK .Grad H: Is he involved in {disfmarker} Ach ! {comment} I 'm blanking on the name of the project . NIST has {disfmarker} has done a bigmeeting room {disfmarker} instrumented meeting room with video and microphone arrays , and very elaborate software . Is {disfmarker} is he the one working on that ?Professor B: Well that 's what they 're startingup .Grad H: OK .Professor B: Yeah . No , I mean , that 's what all this is about . They {disfmarker} they haven't done it yet . They wanted to do it {disfmarker}Grad H: OK . I had read some papers that looked like theyhad already done some work .Professor B: Uh , well I think they 've instrumented a room but I don't {pause} think they {disfmarker} they haven't started recordings yet . They don't have the t the transcription


PhD A: OK , we 're on .Professor C: OK , what are we talking about today ?PhD B: I don't know . Do you have news from the conference talk ? Uh , that was programmed for yesterday {disfmarker} I guess .Professor C:Uh {disfmarker}PhD D: YesterdayProfessor C: Uh {disfmarker}PhD D: Yesterday morning on video conference .Professor C: Uh ,PhD B: WellProfessor C: oh , I 'm sorry .Grad E: Oh . Conference call .Professor C: Iknow {disfmarker} now I know what you 're talking about . No , nobody 's told me anything .PhD B: Alright .PhD A: Oh , this was the , uh , talk where they were supposed to try to decide {disfmarker}PhD B: To{disfmarker} to decide what to do ,PhD A: Ah , right .PhD B: yeah .PhD D: Yeah .Professor C: Yeah . No , that would have been a good thing to find out before this meeting , that 's . No , I have no {disfmarker} I haveno idea . Um , Uh , so I mean , let 's {disfmarker} let 's assume for right now that we 're just kind of plugging on ahead ,PhD B: Yeah .Professor C: because even if they tell us that , uh , the rules are different , uh , we're still interested in doing what we 're doing . So what are you doing ?PhD B: Mm - hmm . Uh , well , we 've {disfmarker} a little bit worked on trying to see , uh , what were the bugs and the problem with the latencies.PhD D: To improve {disfmarker}PhD B: So , We took {disfmarker} first we took the LDA filters and , {vocalsound} uh , we designed new filters , using uh recursive filters actually .Professor C: So when you say " we " ,is that something Sunil is doing or is that {disfmarker} ?PhD B: I 'm sorry ?Professor C: Who is doing that ?PhD B: Uh , us . Yeah .Professor C: Oh , oh . Oh , OK .PhD B: So we took the filters {disfmarker} the FIRfilters {vocalsound} and we {comment} designed , uh , IIR filters that have the same frequency response .PhD D: But {disfmarker}Professor C: Mm - hmm .PhD B: Well , similar , but that have shorter delays.Professor C: Mm - hmm .PhD B: So they had two filters , one for the low frequency bands and another for the high frequency bands . And so we redesigned two filters . And the low frequency band has sixty - fourmilliseconds of delay , and the high frequency band filter has something like eleven milliseconds compared to the two hundred milliseconds of the IIR filters . But it 's not yet test . So we have the filters but we still haveto implement a routine that does recursive filteringProfessor C: OK .PhD B: and {disfmarker}Professor C: You {disfmarker} you had a discussion with Sunil about this though ?PhD B: No . No .Professor C: Uh - huh .Yeah , you should talk with him .PhD B: Yeah , yeah .Professor C: Yeah . No , I mean , because the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the whole problem that happened before was coordination ,PhD B:Mm - hmm .Professor C: right ? So {disfmarker} so you need to discuss with him what we 're doing ,PhD B: Yeah .Professor C: uh , cuz they could be doing the same thing and {disfmarker} or something .PhD B: Mm -hmm . Uh , I {disfmarker} yeah , I don't know if th that 's what they were trying to {disfmarker} They were trying to do something different like taking , uh {disfmarker} well , using filter that takes only a pastProfessorC: Right .PhD B: and this is just a little bit different . But I will I will send him an email and tell him exactly what we are doing , so .Professor C: Yeah , yeah . Um ,PhD B: Um ,Professor C: I mean {disfmarker} We just{disfmarker} we just have to be in contact more . I think that {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the fact that we {disfmarker} we did that with {disfmarker} had that thing with the latencies was indicative of the fact thatthere wasn't enough communication .PhD B: Mm - hmm .Professor C: So .PhD B: Alright .Professor C: OK .PhD B: Um , Yeah . Well , there is w one , um , remark about these filters , that they don't have a linear phase. So ,Professor C: Right .PhD B: Well , I don't know , perhaps it {disfmarker} perhaps it doesn't hurt because the phase is almost linear but . Um , and so , yeah , for the delay I gave you here , it 's {disfmarker} it 's ,uh , computed on the five hertz modulation frequency , which is the {disfmarker} mmm , well , the most important for speech so . Uh , this is the first thing .Professor C: So that would be , uh , a reduction of a hundredand thirty - six milliseconds ,PhD D: The low f fPhD B: Yeah .Professor C: which , uh {disfmarker} What was the total we ended up with through the whole system ?PhD B: Three hundred and thirty .Professor C: So thatwould be within {disfmarker} ?PhD B: Yeah , but there are other points actually , uh , which will perhaps add some more delay . Is that some other {disfmarker} other stuff in the process were perhaps not very{disfmarker} um perf well , not very correct , like the downsampling which w was simply dropping frames .Professor C: Yeah .PhD B: Um , so we will try also to add a nice downsampling having a filter that {disfmarker}that {disfmarker}Professor C: Uh - huh .PhD B: well , a low - pass filter at {disfmarker} at twenty - five hertz . Uh , because wh when {disfmarker} when we look at the LDA filters , well , they are basically low - passbut they leave a lot of what 's above twenty - five hertz .Professor C: Yeah .PhD B: Um , and so , yeah , this will be another filter which would add ten milliseconds again .Professor C: Yeah .PhD B: Um , yeah , and thenthere 's a third thing , is that , um , basically the way on - line normalization was done uh , is just using this recursion on {disfmarker} on the um , um , on the feature stream ,Professor C: Yeah .PhD B: and{disfmarker} but this is a filter , so it has also a delay . Uh , and when we look at this filter actually it has a delay of eighty - five milliseconds . So if we {disfmarker}Professor C: Eighty - five .PhD B: Yeah . If we want tobe very correct , so if we want to {disfmarker} the estimation of the mean t t to {disfmarker} to be {disfmarker} well , the right estimation of the mean , we have to t to take eighty - five milliseconds in the future .Mmm .Professor C: Hmm ! That 's a little bit of a problem .PhD B: Yeah . Um , But , well , when we add up everything it 's {disfmarker} it will be alright . We would be at six so , sixty - five , plus ten , plus {disfmarker}for the downsampling , plus eighty - five for the on - line normalization . So it 'sProfessor C: Uh ,PhD B: plus {disfmarker} plus eighty for the neural net and PCA .Professor C: yeah , but then there 's {disfmarker} Oh.PhD B: So it would be around two hundred and forty {disfmarker} so , well ,Professor C: Just {disfmarker} just barely in there .PhD B: plus {disfmarker} plus the frames , but it 's OK .PhD A: What 's the allowable?Professor C: Two - fifty , unless they changed the rules .PhD B: Hmm .Professor C: Which there is {disfmarker} there 's some discussion of .PhD A: What were they thinking of changing it to ?Professor C: But{disfmarker}PhD B: Yeah .Professor C: Uh , well the people who had very low latency want it to be low {disfmarker} uh , very {disfmarker} {vocalsound} very very narrow , uh , latency bound . And the people whohave longer latency don't . So .PhD A: Huh .PhD B: So , yeah .Professor C: Unfortunately we 're the main ones with long latency , butPhD A: Ah !Professor C: But , uh ,PhD B: Yeah , and basically the best proposal hadsomething like thirty or forty milliseconds of latency .Professor C: you know , it 's {disfmarker} Yeah .PhD B: So . Well .Professor C: Yeah , so they were basically {disfmarker} I mean , they were more or less tradingcomputation for performance and we were , uh , trading latency for performance . And they were dealing with noise explicitly and we weren't , and so I think of it as complementary , that if we can put the{disfmarker}PhD A: Think of it as what ?Professor C: Complementary .PhD A: Hmm .Professor C: I think the best systems {disfmarker} so , uh , everything that we did in in a way it was {disfmarker} it was justadamantly insisting on going in with a brain damaged system , which is something {disfmarker} actually , we 've done a lot over the last thirteen years . Uh , {vocalsound} which is we say , well this is the way weshould do it . And then we do it . And then someone else does something that 's straight forward . So , w th w this was a test that largely had additive noise and we did {disfmarker} we adde did absolutely nothingexplicitly to handle ad additive noise .PhD A: Right .Professor C: We just , uh , you know , trained up systems to be more discriminant . And , uh , we did this , uh , RASTA - like filtering which was done in the logdomain and was tending to handle convolutional noise . We did {disfmarker} we actually did nothing about additive noise . So , um , the , uh , spectral sub subtraction schemes a couple places did seem to seem to do anice job . And so , uh , we 're talking about putting {disfmarker} putting some of that in while still keeping some of our stuff . I think you should be able to end up with a system that 's better than both but clearly theway that we 're operating for this other stuff does involved some latency to {disfmarker} to get rid of most of that latency . To get down to forty or fifty milliseconds we 'd have to throw out most of what we 're doing .And {disfmarker} and , uh , I don't think there 's any good reason for it in the application actually . I mean , you 're {disfmarker} you 're {disfmarker} you 're speaking to a recognizer on a remote server and , uh ,having a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a quarter second for some processing to clean it up . It doesn't seem like it 's that big a deal .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor C: These aren't large vocabulary things so the decodershouldn't take a really long time , and .PhD A: And I don't think anybody 's gonna notice the difference between a quarter of a second of latency and thirty milliseconds of latency .Professor C: So . No . What{disfmarker} what does {disfmarker} wa was your experience when you were doing this stuff with , uh , the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the surgical , uh , uh , microscopes and so forth . Um , how long was it fromwhen somebody , uh , finished an utterance to when , uh , something started happening ?PhD A: Um , we had a silence detector , so we would look for the end of an utterance based on the silence detector .Professor C:Mm - hmm .PhD A: And I {disfmarker} I can't remember now off the top of my head how many frames of silence we had to detect before we would declare it to be the end of an utterance .Professor C: Mm - hmm . Mm- hmm .PhD A: Um , but it was , uh , I would say it was probably around the order of two hundred and fifty milliseconds .Professor C: Yeah , and that 's when you 'd start doing things .PhD A: Yeah , we did the backtrace at that point to get the answer .Professor C: Yeah . Of course that didn't take too long at that point .PhD A: No , no it was pretty quick .Professor C: Yeah .PhD A: So {disfmarker}Professor C: Yeah , so you{disfmarker} you {disfmarker} so you had aPhD A: this wProfessor C: so you had a {disfmarker} a quarter second delay before , uh , plus some little processing time ,PhD A: Right .Professor C: and then the{disfmarker} the microscope would start moving or something .PhD A: Right .Professor C: Yeah .PhD A: Right .Professor C: And there 's physical inertia there , so probably the {disfmarker} the motion itself was all{disfmarker}PhD A: And it felt to , uh , the users that it was instantaneous . I mean , as fast as talking to a person . It {disfmarker} th I don't think anybody ever complained about the delay .Professor C: Yeah , so youwould think as long as it 's under half a second or something .PhD A: Yeah .Professor C: Uh , I 'm not an expert on thatPhD A: Yeah .Professor C: but .PhD A: I don't remember the exact numbers but it was somethinglike that .Professor C: Yeah .PhD A: I don't think you can really tell . A person {disfmarker} I don't think a person can tell the difference between , uh , you know , a quarter of a second and a hundred milliseconds , and{disfmarker} I 'm not even sure if we can tell the difference between a quarter of a second and half a second .Professor C: Yeah .PhD A: I mean it just {disfmarker} it feels so quick .Professor C: Yeah . I mean ,basically if you {disfmarker} yeah , if you said , uh , um , " what 's the , uh , uh {disfmarker} what 's the shortest route to the opera ? " and it took half a second to get back to you ,PhD A: Yeah .Professor C: I mean ,{vocalsound} it would be f I mean , it might even be too abrupt . You might have to put in a s a s {vocalsound} a delay .PhD A: Yeah . I mean , it may feel different than talking to a personProfessor C: Yeah .PhD A:because when we talk to each other we tend to step on each other 's utterances . So like if I 'm asking you a question , you may start answering before I 'm even done .Professor C: Yeah .PhD A: So it {disfmarker} itwould probably feel differentProfessor C: Right .PhD A: but I don't think it would feel slow .Professor C: Right . Well , anyway , I mean , I think {disfmarker} we could cut {disfmarker} we know what else , we could cutdown on the neural net time by {disfmarker} by , uh , playing around a little bit , going more into the past , or something like that . We t we talked about that .PhD A: So is the latency from the neural net caused byhow far ahead you 're looking ?Professor C: Mm - hmm .PhD B: Mm - hmm .Professor C: And there 's also {disfmarker} well , there 's the neural net and there 's also this , uh , uh , multi - frame , uh , uh , KLT .PhD A:Wasn't there {disfmarker} Was it in the , uh , recurrent neural nets where they weren't looking ahead at all ?Professor C: They weren't looking ahead much . They p they looked ahead a little bit .PhD A: A little bit . OK.Professor C: Yeah . Yeah , I mean , you could do this with a recurrent net . And {disfmarker} and then {disfmarker} But you also could just , um , I mean , we haven't experimented with this but I imagine you could ,um , uh , predict a , uh {disfmarker} um , a label , uh , from more in the past than in {disfmarker} than {disfmarker} than in the future . I mean , we 've d we 've done some stuff with that before . I think it{disfmarker} it works OK .PhD B: Mm - hmm .PhD A: We 've always had {disfmarker} usually we used the symmetric windowsProfessor C: So .PhD A: but I don't think {disfmarker}Professor C: Yeah , but we 've{disfmarker} but we played a little bit with {disfmarker} with asymmetric , guys .PhD A: Yeah .Professor C: You can do it . So . So , that 's what {disfmarker} that 's what you 're busy with , s messing around with this,PhD B: Uh , yeah .Professor C: yeah . And , uh ,PhD D: Also we were thinking to {disfmarker} to , uh , apply the eh , spectral subtraction from EricssonPhD B: Yeah .Professor C: Uh - huh .PhD D: and to {disfmarker}to change the contextual KLT for LDA .PhD A: Change the what ?PhD D: The contextual KLT .PhD A: I 'm missing that last word . ContextProfessor C: K {disfmarker} KLT .PhD A: KLT .PhD D: KLT {disfmarker}Grad E:Oh . KLT .PhD A: Oh , KLT .Professor C: Mm - hmm .PhD A: Uh - huh .PhD D: KLT , I 'm sorry . Uh , to change and use LDA discriminative .PhD B: Yeah .Professor C: Uh - huh .PhD D: But {disfmarker} I don't know.Professor C: Uh ,PhD A: What is the advantage of that ?PhD D: Uh {disfmarker}PhD B: Well , it 's that by the for the moment we have , uh , something that 's discriminant and nonlinear . And the other is linear but it 'snot discriminant at all . Well , it 's it 's a linear transformation , that {disfmarker} Uh {disfmarker}Professor C: So at least just to understand maybe what the difference was between how much you were getting fromjust putting the frames together and how much you 're getting from the discriminative , what the nonlinearity does for you or doesn't do for you . Just to understand it a little better I guess .PhD B: Mmm . Well{disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} yeah . Actually what we want to do , perhaps it 's to replace {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to have something that 's discriminant but linear , also . And to see if it {disfmarker} if itimproves ov over {disfmarker} over the non - discriminant linear transformation .PhD A: Hmm .PhD B: And if the neural net is better than this or , well . So .Professor C: Yeah , well , that 's what I meant , is to seewhether {disfmarker} whether it {disfmarker} having the neural net really buys you anything .PhD B: Ye Mmm .Professor C: Uh , I mean , it doe did look like it buys you something over just the KLT .PhD B: Yeah.Professor C: But maybe it 's just the discrimination and {disfmarker} and maybe {disfmarker} yeah , maybe the nonlinear discrimination isn't necessary .PhD D: S maybe .PhD B: Yeah . Mm - hmm .Professor C: Couldbe .PhD D: Maybe .Professor C: Good {disfmarker} good to know . But the other part you were saying was the spectral subtraction , so you just kind of , uh {disfmarker}PhD B: Yeah .Professor C: At what stage do youdo that ? Do you {disfmarker} you 're doing that , um {disfmarker} ?PhD B: So it would be on the um {disfmarker} on {disfmarker} on the mel frequency bands ,PhD D: We was thinkPhD B: so . Yeah , be beforeeverything .Professor C: OK ,PhD D: Yeah ,Professor C: so just do that on the mel fPhD D: we {disfmarker} no {disfmarker} nnn We {disfmarker} we was thinking to do before after VAD orPhD B: Yeah ,PhD D: Oh ,{comment} we don't know exactly when it 's better .PhD B: um {disfmarker}PhD D: Before after VAD or {disfmarker}Professor C: So {disfmarker} so you know that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that the way thatthey 're {disfmarker}PhD D: and thenPhD B: Um .Professor C: uh , one thing that would be no {disfmarker} good to find out about from this conference call is that what they were talking about , what they 'reproposing doing , was having a third party , um , run a good VAD , and {disfmarker} and determine boundaries .PhD D: Yeah .Professor C: And then given those boundaries , then have everybody do the recognition.PhD D: Begin to work .Professor C: The reason for that was that , um , uh {disfmarker} if some one p one group put in the VAD and another didn't , uh , or one had a better VAD than the other since that {disfmarker}they 're not viewing that as being part of the {disfmarker} the task , and that any {disfmarker} any manufacturer would put a bunch of effort into having some s kind of good speech - silence detection . It still wouldn'tbe perfect but I mean , e the argument was " let 's not have that be part of this test . " " Let 's {disfmarker} let 's separate that out . " And so , uh , I guess they argued about that yesterday and , yeah , I 'm sorry , Idon't {disfmarker} don't know the answer but we should find out . I 'm sure we 'll find out soon what they , uh {disfmarker} what they decided . So , uh {disfmarker} Yeah , so there 's the question of the VAD butotherwise it 's {disfmarker} it 's on the {disfmarker} the , uh {disfmarker} the mel fil filter bank , uh , energies I guess ?PhD D: Mm - hmm .PhD B: Mmm , yeah .Professor C: You do {disfmarker} doing the{disfmarker} ?PhD D: Mm - hmm .Professor C: And you 're {disfmarker} you 're subtracting in the {disfmarker} in the {disfmarker} in the {disfmarker} I guess it 's power {disfmarker} power domain , uh , or{disfmarker} or magnitude domain . Probably power domain , right ?PhD B: I guess it 's power domain , yeah .Professor C: whyPhD B: I don't remember exactly .Professor C: Yeah ,PhD D: I don't remember .PhD B:But {disfmarker} yeah , so it 's before everything else ,Professor C: yep .PhD B: and {disfmarker}Professor C: I mean , if you look at the theory , it 's {disfmarker} it should be in the power domain but {disfmarker}but , uh , I 've seen implementations where people do it in the magnitude domainPhD B: Yeah .Professor C: and {disfmarker}PhD B: Mmm .Professor C: I have asked people why and they shrug their shoulders and say, " oh , it works . " So .PhD B: Yeah .Professor C: Uh , and there 's this {disfmarker} I guess there 's this mysterious {disfmarker} I mean people who do this a lot I guess have developed little tricks of the trade . Imean , there 's {disfmarker} there 's this , um {disfmarker} you don't just subtract the {disfmarker} the estimate of the noise spectrum . You subtract th that times {disfmarker}PhD B: A little bit more and{disfmarker} Yeah .Professor C: Or {disfmarker} or less , or {disfmarker}PhD A: Really ?PhD B: Yeah .PhD A: Huh !Professor C: Yeah .PhD B: And generated this {disfmarker} this ,Professor C: Uh .PhD B: um , so youhave the estimation of the power spectra of the noise , and you multiply this by a factor which is depend dependent on the SNR . So . Well .PhD D: Hmm , maybe .PhD A: Hmm !PhD B: When the speech lev when thesignal level is more important , compared to this noise level , the coefficient is small , and around one . But when the power le the s signal level is uh small compared to the noise level , the coefficient is more important. And this reduce actually the music musical noise ,PhD A: Oh !PhD B: uh which is more important during silence portions ,PhD A: Uh - huh .PhD B: when the s the energy 's small .PhD A: Hmm !PhD B: So there are


Project Manager: Think we can first {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: Right it was function F_ eight or something .Industrial Designer: ThaUser Interface: This one right there .Industrial Designer:Okay .User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: Who is gonna do a PowerPoint presentation ?User Interface: Think we all {gap} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: You will as well ?User Interface: Huh . Oh I thought weall were .Industrial Designer: Okay .User Interface: Yeah , I have one too , okay .Project Manager: {gap} .User Interface: SIndustrial Designer: Yep .Marketing: {gap} .User Interface: Whoops I forgot to put the thingon {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Project Manager: Right . I just wanna {disfmarker} 'cause basically I can't re I've {disfmarker} really crap at remembering everyone's name so I just wanna {disfmarker} rather thangoing uh Miss Marketing and Miss this and Miss that {vocalsound} wanted to know your names again .User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: Okay I'm {disfmarker}Project Manager: {gap} just gonna leave this uphere 'cause I'll {vocalsound} you know . So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Okay .User Interface: Yeah . Sure , that's a good idea .Industrial Designer: I'm Catherine with a C_ . C_A_T_H_ E_R_ I_N_E_ .ProjectManager: Okay , andUser Interface: Uh Gabriel .Project Manager: Gabriel . E_L_ is it ?User Interface: E_L_ .Project Manager: 'Kay . And you're s r R_E_I_S_S_ {vocalsound} {gap}Marketing: I am Reissa .R_E_I_S_S_A_ . Double S_ A_ , yeah {vocalsound} yeah . Sorry .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: 'S just a bit nicer calling people by their names I think .Industrial Designer: Right.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: True .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh , right .Marketing: Mm 'kay .Project Manager: Okay , right , welcome to meeting B_ . Um this is gonna go a lot better than thelast meeting , basically ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: uh 'cause I know what I'm supposed to be doing now .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} I am your Project Manager , and , uh yeah , I'm just here toIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {gap} sort of liaise between the three of you and get thingsgoing , get people talking and and I'm gonna be making notes and sending them off to the powers that be and stuff basically . Um right , this {disfmarker} for the purposes of this meeting {disfmarker} what thismeeting is all about is um I'm gonna have some presentations from all three of you , what you've been working on for the last wee while , when you haven't been getting hit with spam on your computers and and , youknow , filling out silly questionnaires and things .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: But hopefully you've been {disfmarker} actually been doing something productive . So we'regonna {disfmarker} each of you gonna give us a litt a little presentation . {vocalsound} Um .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: Then we're gonna {vocalsound} work , you know , from each of your presentations . We'llwe'll uh talk about what we actually need as a final coming together of it all . Um and then we'll , yeah , we'll {gap} sort of conclude {gap} anything else comes up at the end of it .Industrial Designer: How long is themeeting ?Project Manager: This meeting it's not very long . It's uh probably down to about thirty five minutes now . So I want each of your presentations to not be too long , five five minutes , something like that.Industrial Designer: Okay . {vocalsound} No problem . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um if you haven't done a PowerPoint thingy , it doesn't matter , it it just it just says that you {disfmarker} it's {disfmarker} that'sjust one particular medium . If you haven't had time to prepare one , you can draw stuff on the noteboard , you can talk to us , you can {disfmarker} you know however you want to do your little presentation , basically, you can . Don't feel pressurised into using this thing . 'Cause I don't .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh okay . So um . You okay over there ? Reissa ,Marketing: I'm fine . Yeah.Project Manager: are you uh b are you joining in with this meeting hereMarketing: I uh yeah , yeah .Project Manager: or are y or are y or are you are you just are you just uh doing some Internet shopping there ?{vocalsound}User Interface: Think she's finishing up her presentation .Marketing: D I mean , I I'm finishing off my presentation .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: No no . {vocalsound} Uh I'm done . Okay.Project Manager: Okay , jolly good . Alright , let's have um {disfmarker} well , we all know that it's it's a remote control that we're gonna be dealing with .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: I think the first thing weshould look at is um {vocalsound} probably the um what it is that it is actually supposed to be . So that's gonna be you Catherine ,Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: if we wanna hear from you first .IndustrialDesigner: Okay . Um just connecting this .Project Manager: You don't have to worry about screwing it in just {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Are we getting i Really ?Project Manager: there you go .IndustrialDesigner: Okay . Cool . Okay . So I've got a very quick uh {disfmarker} Uh . Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So the working design , I've got a very quick presentation on this , so um I've{disfmarker} oh no , you can't see a thing . {vocalsound} Oh well , I'm gonna draw it on the board then . It's in blue uh , and I couldn't change it .User Interface: Oh . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Ah .IndustrialDesigner: We it's fine on my screen , but never mind . So um {vocalsound} the idea is that we've got the energy source um , which in our case will pr , oh well {disfmarker} okay , never mind . So um I think maybe uhtwo batteries , I dunno what they're called {gap} six , or something like that .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Uh and then {vocalsound} um then on the uh remote control itself will have um the senderfor the signal , which could be uh an infra-red signal , um which will be sent by an electronic chip . And uh the chip will be controlled by the user interface . So we'll hear about that later from Gabriel .Project Manager:Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: And uh the sender will send to the telly itself an infra-red signal to tell it to switch on or switch channels . Um and that's it really for the working design .Project Manager: Great . Okay.Industrial Designer: Sorry the presentation wasn't very uh clear but {disfmarker}Project Manager: I prefer the pe I prefer the human touch personally .Industrial Designer: Really ? Cool .Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Um , should I erase this or {disfmarker}Project Manager: Do you wanna just give us a moment , I just wanna copy this down .Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: Um I dunno if you guyshave got any questions for Catherine on any of this ?Industrial Designer: Fine . {vocalsound} Or suggestions ?Marketing: Is a battery like the only way of {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Well , it's just , you don't wantit plugged in really , sUser Interface: Yeah , alternate energy source , like win wind power or {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah , you blow on it and i {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: In indoors .{vocalsound}Marketing: No , no {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} Bicycle power .Marketing: No I meant like {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: No 'cause like cha 'cause {disfmarker}always changing um um batteries can get like annoying .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: The battery's down and {disfmarker} maybe {vocalsound} , I dunno , solar charged ? {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: I dunno , swi I th I th I think changing your batteries once every six months is not really a pain , but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah , it's worked for the last fifty years you know .Marketing: Mm . Yeah.User Interface: One question I have , and I don't know how much control we have over this is um , as far as the infra-red signal , do we have control over , you know , how far away you can be from the receiving unit ,the the T_V_ , and still have it be operational ? I mean , maybe we want one with a strong signal stream .Project Manager: How far away is your television ?Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: It's never gonnabe more than it's never gonna be , you kno unless you've got a T_V_ the size of a football pitch , it's not {disfmarker} doesn't have to go that far ,User Interface: Uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Well , the thing isuh you you don't {disfmarker}Project Manager: does it ? Doesn't have to go through a wall , because you're not gonna be looking through a wall .User Interface: That's true .Marketing: Yeah , but if like you're on thephone in the other room and you need turn television off or something and you don't really want to go into the {disfmarker} put the telephone down , and go into the other room . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Well, we can make the the signal strong enough to go through walls if if you fancy it . I didn't think about that but {disfmarker}Marketing: How about Bluetooth ? {gap} Instead of using infra-red , use Bluetooth .IndustrialDesigner: Why not ? I just think that it's it's gonna cost moreMarketing: Isn't that a better signal ?Project Manager: Yeah , yeah I d it sounds like you {gap} you w don't wanna overcomplicate things .IndustrialDesigner: and I'm I'm not sure it's {disfmarker} you're gonna use it .Marketing: Mm {vocalsound} .Project Manager: You know we don't need it .Industrial Designer: It's a fancy idea uh it's quite nice , but then I don'tth I dunno , either you {disfmarker} if you wanna watch the telly you're in the room ,Project Manager: Yeah , exactly .Industrial Designer: you are gonna {disfmarker}Project Manager: Basically , we're we're desi we'redesigning and marketing a television remote control unit .Industrial Designer: But {disfmarker}Project Manager: We're not w w w w designing something that you can plug in a headset to and and you know connect toyour laptop computer and stuff . It's uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: Oh , we can we can keep the idea if you i We can see at a later stage , maybe , I don't {disfmarker}Marketing: 'S just an idea.Project Manager: Okay . Right , well done , Catherine . Um Gab Gabriel let's uh let's hear from you on on on such things .User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: Do you need the border ?User Interface: Uh I'm justgonna use the PowerPoint uh .Industrial Designer: Okay . {vocalsound} Sorry .User Interface: Technical {gap} . Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: Okay , so , while this is warming up,Marketing: Adjusting .User Interface: there it is uh .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: So I'm doing the user interface design .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Yeah , and basically uh , as far as methods , Iwas I was looking looking at looking at uh already existing remotes , trying to find some inspiration from designs that are already out there . Thinking of what we can retain , what we can do away with , uh what wewhat we can perfect a little bit as far as design um . {gap} we don't want to do something that's too radical of a change , I guess , I mean people want a remote that's familiar , that has their favourite functionalities umand and does the basics , but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm yeah .User Interface: Um so we can improve what's out there and maintain that , the basic functionality that people want . Um so things that{vocalsound} seem like absolute must-haves uh would be a volume control , um so up-down keys for that , uh channel keys up-down , but then also a numerical key pad so that they can just key directly to the channelthat they want , rather than doing up-down , and uh a mute button . Uh one thing that I didn't include here , that I forgot that we talked about last time , was doing um some sort of lock uh function .Project Manager:Okay .User Interface: Uh , I don't I dunno , uh that's one possibility . And so in the research that I was doing there's basically two types of remotes , ones that are engineering centred and ones that are more usercentred , which I don't know if I can access the web page from here , but I can show you {disfmarker} uh . Yeah . So this is a engineer centred one , so you see it's rather busy , but it also lets you play your movie ,stop your movie , fast-forward , all this , um {vocalsound} freeze frame .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Uh and this is a user centred one . Uh it's it's easier to g just glance at this and see {vocalsound}what's possible to do ,Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: you're not gonna be staring at it for five minutes .Project Manager: Great .User Interface: And I {disfmarker} judging from what what we all talked aboutduring our last meeting I kind of gathered that that's what we were going after , uh or the direction we were going in at least . Um . So , the engineering centred ones uh provide a lot of functionality , but it can be alittle bit overwhelming , so the user centred ones just focus on ease of use . Uh and this sort of overlaps with what the marketing person uh , Reissa ,Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: because uh we we need tofind out what what people want before we make firm decisions on this .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: {gap} . {vocalsound}User Interface: So uh , yeah , that's me .Project Manager: Great . Okay .Now that's I just have a q a q question for you . This w um research that you've been doing looki looking at other , you know , existing units {gap} stuff . Um have you found that anyone else has do has looked into thelocking function or {disfmarker}User Interface: No that that that seemed like a novel idea as f as far as I know . I mean obviously another {disfmarker} {gap} exists {gap} like you like you said in in mobile phones.Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: That was sort of the inspiration for it . Um I've never seen that with {disfmarker} in in all my years in in the remote business .Project Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound}{vocalsound}User Interface: I've , haven't I've never seen a locking functionality . I dunno , what uh do you guys have a a yea or nay on that {gap} a feeling about whether that's really necessary ?Project Manager:Um {disfmarker} I would say it's {disfmarker} If it's simple to do , which I think it probably should be ,User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: even if it's a physical , you know , a f a like a f a physical switch or aphysical cover for the remote , even something like that , um then yes ,User Interface: Mm-hmm . 'Kay .Project Manager: it's {gap} like , you know , like s you said earlier on ab ab ab a flip thing , something like that,User Interface: Right .Project Manager: but you know being physical . Look into . Um I've had word down from head office that something that we should be centred {vocalsound} well , something we should take intoaccount is um we've gotta keep the corporate image within this remote control unit . It's gotta d look like it's in the R_ and R_ .User Interface: Mm {vocalsound} .Project Manager: You know , the the company it's it's ,from what I can see from our other products , are yellow with blue writing on them . Um .Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Mm .User Interface: Right . And our motto is is we put the fashion in electronics .ProjectManager: We put the fashion in electronics . There you go .User Interface: I think I think we have to carry that mental .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: So it's kinda gotta look it's gotta look new and s you knowsomething fashionable . If if remote control {disfmarker} well , if telephones can be fashionable , then maybe remote control units can be .User Interface: Mm .Marketing: Mm .User Interface: Well yeah these , I think ,we can {disfmarker} so we talked about the layout in my presentation and what I didn't mention yet really is is the sort of like the ergonomic design .Project Manager: Yeah . Because we need {disfmarker}UserInterface: I t I think we can make big improvements over these two that you see here , I mean .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah . Great .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh , everything is going tergonomic , you know , there's you know mice for your computers that are very ergonomic and keyboards and that could be one of our niches p sort of uh uh in the market , I guess . Um .Project Manager: Okay ,fantastic .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Right , well done , Gabriel .Marketing: {gap} .Project Manager: Um Reissa . Let's plug you in , baby .Marketing: Where does it go into ?User Interface: {gap} .Marketing:Here ?User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: The blue thing .User Interface: Uh , yeah , this is getting all {gap} .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Mm . {vocalsound}Marketing: {gap} .User Interface: Yeah , then youjust have to do function F_ eight and it should come up .Marketing: Well , function F_ eight . No {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah , w it it just takes a wee while .User Interface: Yeah , it just takes a second uh.Marketing: oh . {vocalsound} Come on . Right . Okay . {gap} . Okay . Well , for our marketing report uh we observed remote control users in a usability lab , and also gave {disfmarker} so this is research{disfmarker} and we also gave participants um questionnaires to fill out . Um total number of people tested were a hundred just so you know , so that hundred people were tested and these were the findings . Soseventy five per cent of users find the remote control ugly . Okay , so they don't like the look of the remote control . Um eighty f eighty per cent of them would spend more money if the rem remote control looked reallycool and fancy . So I think we all agree with that . Um {vocalsound} current remote controls do not match well with the operating behaviour of the user . So , they don't like {disfmarker} like the way they operate itdoesn't like match how people behave . Um {gap} per cent of the users say that they only use ten per cent of the buttons on a remote , so probably if you have like one , two , three , four , five , the whole up to z ten ,they probably don't use those , they only use the up and down channel .Project Manager: 'Cause we've only got five channels . {vocalsound}Marketing: {gap} {vocalsound} exactly .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} That's another thing . {vocalsound} Um seventy five per cent of users say they zap . Not quite sure what they mean , zap , goes like {vocalsound} .Project Manager: I think that'sk flicking quickly between channels .User Interface: Yeah , you wanna navigate the channels quickly I guess .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Mm . Um takes too much time to learn how to use anew remote . I think especially for uh the older generation . I know my grandmother doesn't like mobile phones , takes ages to work how to use . Anyway um and they also {disfmarker} remotes often get lost in theroom , so nobody can find them .User Interface: Mm .Marketing: {vocalsound} So maybe tracking devices is a good idea .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Wow .Marketing: Um personal preferences .{vocalsound}Project Manager: You are a child of technology , aren't you ? {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Um so yeah um {vocalsound} I was thinking something easy to use , especially for olderpeople . Um {vocalsound} has to look really cool , flashy groovy for people to buy it . And it's easy to find {vocalsound} , so I don't know whether maybe {disfmarker} and also we asked them whether they wanted{vocalsound} {disfmarker} whether they'd be interested in um {vocalsound} voice activating .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: So voice activation . So and this was what we came up with . Then if you lookfifteen to twenty five {disfmarker} this is age , sorry , {gap} age groups . So fifteen to twenty five said like ninety two {disfmarker} ninety one per cent of them said yes .Project Manager: So there you go , yeah.Marketing: {vocalsound} Um {vocalsound} so basically the majority except for the forty five to fifty five year olds for some reason didn't want a voice activated one . And neither did the older generation , but theyounger generation who we are catering for , like who have most of the money nowadays , do want a voice act speech recognition in a remote .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh but do the youngergeneration have the money ? They they don't .User Interface: No I would I would say the older the older people , yeah .Project Manager: It's older generation , they're the ones that have gone out and{disfmarker}Marketing: Well the twenty five to thirty five year old , and thirty five , and the thirty five to forty five , forty five point seven per cent {gap} say no , so {disfmarker}Project Manager: People people from


Grad B: Sorry . Mental {disfmarker} mental Palm Pilot . Right . Hence {pause} no problem .Grad F: Let 's see . So . What ? I 'm supposed to be on channel five ? Her . Nope . Doesn't seem to be ,Grad B: Hello {pause}I 'm channel one .Grad F: yeah .Grad D: Grad E: What does your thing say on the back ?Grad D: Testing .Grad F: Nnn , five . Alright , I 'm five .Grad D: Sibilance . Sibilance . {comment} {pause} Three , three . I amthree .Grad B: Eh .Grad D: See , that matches the seat up there . So .Grad F: Yeah , well , I g guess {pause} it 's coming up then , or {disfmarker}Grad D: Cuz it 's {disfmarker} That starts counting from zero andthese start counting from one . Ergo , the classic off - by - one error .Grad B: But mine is correct .Grad D: Is it ?Grad E: No .Grad B: It 's one . Channel one .Grad D: Your mike {pause} number {pause} is what we 'retGrad E: Look at the back .Grad B: Oh , oh , oh ! Oh .Grad D: Ho !Grad B: So {disfmarker}Grad D: I 've bested you again , Nancy .Grad B: But your p No , but the paper 's correct .Grad D: The paper is correct .Grad B:Look at the paper .Grad D: I didn't det I was saying the microphone , not the paper .Professor C: Nnn ,Grad B: Oh .Professor C: it 's nGrad B: OK .Professor C: It 's always offset . Yeah .Grad B: Yes , you 've bested meagain . That 's how I think of our continuing interaction . Damn ! Foiled again !Grad D: So is Keith showing up ? He 's talking with George right now . Uh , is he gonna get a rip {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} rip himselfaway from {disfmarker} from that ?Grad B: He 'll probably come later .Professor C: What {disfmarker} He - he he 's probably not , is my guess .Grad D: Oh , then it 's just gonna be the five of us ?Professor C: Yeah.Grad E: Well , he {disfmarker} he was very affirmative in his way of saying he will be here at four . But {pause} you know , that was before he knew about that George lecture probably .Professor C: Right . This{disfmarker} this is not {disfmarker} It 's not bad for the project if Keith is talking to George . OK . So my suggestion is we justGrad B: Forge ahead .Professor C: Forge ahead , yeah .Grad E: Cool .Grad B: Are you incharge ?Grad E: Sure . Um . Well , I sort of had informal talks with most of you . So , Eva just reported she 's really happy about the {pause} CBT 's being in the same order in the XML as in the um {disfmarker} beJava declaration formatGrad F: Yeah . The eGrad E: so you don't have to do too much in the style sheet transversion .Grad F: Uh , yeah . Yeah , so .Grad E: The {disfmarker} uh , Java {disfmarker} the embeddedBayes {pause} wants to take input {disfmarker} uh , uh , a Bayes - net {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} in some Java notation and Eva is using the Xalan style sheet processor to convert the XML that 's output by theJava Bayes for the {disfmarker} into the , uh , E Bayes input .Grad D: Mmm .Grad F: Actually , maybe I could try , like , emailing the guy and see if he has any something already .Professor C: Sure .Grad E: Hmm .GradF: That 'd be weird , that he has both the Java Bayes and the embedded Bayes in {disfmarker}Grad D: But that 's some sort of conversion program ?Grad F: Yeah . Yeah . And put them into different {pause} formats .Oh {disfmarker}Grad D: I think you should demand things from him .Grad F: Yep , he could do that , too .Professor C: He charges so much . Right .Grad D: Yeah .Professor C: No , I think it 's a good idea that you mayas well ask . Sure .Grad F: Yeah .Grad E: And , um , well {pause} pretty mu pretty much on t on the top of my list , I would have asked Keith how the " where is X ? " {pause} hand parse is standing . Um . {pause} Butwe 'll skip that . Uh , there 's good news from Johno . The generation templates are done .Grad D: So the trees {pause} for {disfmarker} the XML trees for the {disfmarker} for the gene for the synthesizer are written .So I just need to {pause} do the , uh {disfmarker} write a new set of {pause} tree combining rules . But I think those 'll be pretty similar to the old ones . So . Just gonna be {disfmarker} you know{disfmarker}Professor C: Oh ! You were gonna send me a note about hiring {disfmarker}Grad E: Yes .Professor C: I didn't finish the sentence but he understood it .Grad D: I know what he 's talking about .Professor C:OK . But Nancy doesn't .Grad B: Hiring somebody .Grad E: We {disfmarker} w um {disfmarker}Grad D: The guy .Grad E: OK , so {pause} natural language generation {pause} produces not a {disfmarker} just asurface string that is fed into a text - to - speech but , a {pause} surface string with a syntax tree that 's fed into a concept - to - speech .Professor C: No .Grad B: Yeah . Mm - hmm . Better .Grad E: Now and thisconcept - to - speech module has {pause} certain rules on how {pause} if you get the following syntactic structure , how to map this onto prosodic rules .Grad B: Mm - hmm . Sure . Mm - hmm .Grad E: And Fey hasfoolheartedly agreed to rewrite uh , the German concept uh syntax - to - prosody rules {disfmarker}Grad B: I didn't know she spoke German .Grad E: No , she doesn't .Grad B: Oh , OK .Grad E: But she speaks English.Grad B: Oh . Rewrite the German ones into English . OK , got it .Grad E: Into English . And um therefore {pause} the , uh {disfmarker} if it 's OK that we give her a couple of more hours per week , then {pause} she 'lldo that .Grad B: OK , got it .Grad D: What {pause} language is that {pause} written i Is that that Scheme thing that you showed me ?Grad E: Yeah . That 's the LISP - type scheme .Grad D: She knows how to programin Scheme ? I hope ?Grad E: No , I {disfmarker} My guess is {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I asked for a commented version of that file ? If we get that , then it 's {pause} doable , even without getting into it , eventhough the Scheme li uh , stuff is really well documented in the {pause} Festival .Grad D: Well , I guess if you 're not used to functional programming , Scheme can be completely incomprehensible . Cuz , there 's no{disfmarker} Like {pause} there 's lots of unnamed functionsProfessor C: Syntax . Yeah .Grad D: and {disfmarker}Grad B: Mm - hmm .Grad D: You know ?Professor C: Anyway , it {disfmarker} We 'll sort this out . Um. But anyway , send me the note and then I 'll - I 'll check with , uh , Morgan on the money . I {disfmarker} I don't anticipate any problem but we have to {pause} ask . Oh , so this was {disfmarker} {nonvocalsound}You know , on the generation thing , um if {comment} sh y she 's really going to do that , then we should be able to get prosody as well . So it 'll say it 's nonsense with perfect intonation .Grad D: Are we gonna{disfmarker} Can we change the voice of the {disfmarker} of the thing , because right now the voice sounds like a murderer .Grad E: Yep . We ha we have to change the voice .Grad B: Wh - Which one ?Grad D: The{disfmarker} the little Smarticus {disfmarker} Smarticus sounds like a murderer .Grad B: Oh .Grad A: That 's good to know .Grad D: " I have your reservations . "Grad A: But I will not give them to you unless youcome into my lair .Grad E: It is {disfmarker} Uh , we have the choice between the , uh , usual Festival voices , which I already told the SmartKom people we aren't gonna use because they 're really bad .Grad B:Festival ?Professor C: It 's the name of some program ,Grad B: Oh , oh . Got it . OK .Professor C: the {disfmarker} the synthesizer .Grad A: You know , the usual party voices .Grad E: But , umGrad B: Yeah , I know .That doesn't sound , {vocalsound} exactly right either .Grad E: OGI has , uh , crafted a couple of diphone type voices that are really nice and we 're going to use {pause} that . We can still , um , d agree on a gender ,if we want . So we still have male or female .Grad B: I think {disfmarker} Well , let 's just pick whatever sounds best .Grad E: Hmm ?Grad B: Whatever sounds best .Grad E: Uh .Grad B: Unfortunately , probably malevoices , a bit more research on .Grad D: Does OGI stand for {disfmarker} ? {comment} Original German Institute ?Professor C: OregoGrad B: So .Professor C: OrGrad E: Oregon .Grad B: Oregon GraduateInstiProfessor C: Oregon @ @ {comment} Graduate InstituteGrad D: Oh .Grad E: Try Oregon .Grad D: Ah .Professor C: It turns out there 's the long - standing links with these guys in the speech group .Grad B: Hmm!Professor C: Very long .Grad D: Hmm !Grad E: Hmm .Professor C: In fact , there 's this guy who 's basically got a joint appointment , Hynek {pause} Hermansky . He 's - spends a fair amount of time here . Anyway .Leave it . Won't be a problem .Grad E: OK . And it 's probably also absolutely uninteresting for all of you to , um learn that as of twenty minutes ago , David and I , per accident , uh managed to get the whole SmartKomsystem running on the {disfmarker} uh , ICSI Linux machines with the ICSI NT machines thereby increasing the number of running SmartKom systems in this house from {pause} one on my laptop to three .Grad B:Mmm , that 's good .Grad D: How was this by accident ?Grad B: Yeah , I know . Tha - that 's the part I didn't understand .Grad E: Um , I suggested to try something that was really kind of {disfmarker} even thoughagainst better knowledge shouldn't have worked , but it worked .Grad B: Hmm !Grad E: Intuition .Grad A: Yeah .Grad B: Will it work again ,Grad E: Maybe {disfmarker} maybe {disfmarker} maybe a bit for the AI iintuition thing .Grad B: or {disfmarker} ?Grad D: Yeah .Grad E: OK . And , um , we 'll never found out why . It - it 's just like why {disfmarker} why the generation ma the presentation manager is now working ?GradA: Hmm ! This is something you ha you get used to as a programmer , right ?Grad E: WhichGrad A: You know , {comment} and it 's cool , it works out that way .Grad E: Hmm . So , {vocalsound} the {disfmarker} thepeople at Saarbruecken and I decided not to touch it ever again . Yeah , that would work . OK . Um {disfmarker} I was gonna ask you where something is and what we know about that .Grad A: Where {disfmarker} OK.Grad B: Where the " where is " construction is .Grad A: What {disfmarker} what thing is this ?Grad E: Where is X ?Grad A: OK .Grad E: Oh , but by {disfmarker} Uh , we can ask , uh , did you get to read all fourhundred words ?Professor C: I did .Grad E: Was it OK ? Was it ?Professor C: Yeah .Grad D: I {disfmarker} I wa I was looking at it . It doesn't follow logically . It doesn't {disfmarker} The first paragraph doesn't seem tohave any link to the second paragraph .Grad A: And so on .Professor C: Yeah .Grad D: Yeah .Grad E: Hmm . That {disfmarker}Professor C: You know , i Yeah , it {disfmarker}Grad D: Each paragraph is good , though .I liProfessor C: I i Yeah . Well , it it 's fine .Grad A: It was written by committee .Professor C: Anyway . Um . But c the meeting looks like it 's , it 's gonna be good . So . I think it 's uh {disfmarker}Grad E: Yeah .Grad B:Yeah , I didn't know about it until {pause} Robert told me , like , Professor C: Yeah , I {disfmarker} I ra I ran across it in {disfmarker} I don't even know where , you know {disfmarker} some just {disfmarker} someweird place . And , uh , yeah , I I 'm surprised I didn't know about itGrad B: Y yeah . Well , yeah . I was like , why didn't Dan tell me ?Professor C: since we know all the invited speakers , anGrad A: Right .Professor C:Right , or some Anyway . So {disfmarker} But anyway , yeah . I so I {disfmarker} I did see that . Oh wha Yeah . Before we get started on this st so I also had a nice email correspondence with Daphne Kohler , who saidyes indeed she would love to work with us on the , um , {disfmarker} you know , using these structured belief - nets and stuff but {pause} starting in August , that she 's also got a new student working on this and thatwe should get in touch with them again in August and then we 'll figure out a way for you {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} you to get seriously connected with , um their group . So that 's , uh {disfmarker} looks prettygood . And um {disfmarker} Yeah , I 'll say it now . So , um {disfmarker} And it looks to me like {comment} we 're now at a good point to do something {disfmarker} start working on something really hard . We 'vebeen so far working on things that are easy .Grad A: Oh !Professor C: Uh , w Which is {comment} mental spaces and uh {disfmarker} and - or {disfmarker}Grad A: Hmm !Grad B: It 's hard . Yeah , it 's hard .ProfessorC: Huh ?Grad A: Yeah .Grad B: Yeah .Professor C: It 's a hard puzzle . But the other part of it is the way they connect to these , uh , probabilistic relational models . So {pause} there 's all the problems that the linguistsknow about , about mental spaces , and the cognitive linguists know about , but then there 's this problem of the belief - net people have only done a moderately good job of dealing with temporal belief - nets . Uh ,which they call dynamic {disfmarker} they incorrectly call dynamic belief - nets .Grad B: Mmm .Professor C: So there 's a term " dynamic belief - net " , doesn't mean that . It means time slices . And Srini used thoseand people use them . Uh . But one of the things I w would like to do over the next , uh , month , it may take more , {comment} is to st understand to what extent we can not only figure out the constructions for themfor multiple worlds and uh sort of what the formalism will look like and where the slots and fillers will be , but also what that would translate into in terms of belief - net and the inferences . So the story is that if youhave these probabilistic relational models , they 're set up , in principle , so that you can make new instances and instances connect to each other , and all that sort of stuff , so it should be feasible to set them up insuch a way that if you 've got the past tense and the present tense and each of those is a separate {pause} uh , belief structure that they do their inferences with just the couplings that are appropriate . But that 's gthat 's , as far as I can tell , it 's {disfmarker} it 's putting together two real hard problems . One is the linguistic part of what are the couplings and {disfmarker} and when you have a certain , uh , construction , thatimplies certain couplings and other couplings , you know , between let 's say between the past and the present , or any other one of these things and then we have this inference problem of exactly technically how doesthe belief - net work if it 's got um , let 's say one in {disfmarker} in , you know , different tenses or my beliefs and your beliefs , or any of these other ones of {disfmarker} of multiple models . So um you know , in thelong run we need to solve both of those and my suggestion is that we start digging into them both , uh , in a way we that , you know , th hopefully turns out to be consistent , so that the {disfmarker} Um . Andsometimes it 's actually easier to solve two hard problems than oneGrad A: Yeah .Professor C: because they constrain each other . I mean if you 've got huge ra huge range of possible choices um {disfmarker} We 'llsee . But anyway , so that 's , um {disfmarker}Grad A: Oh yeah , like uh , I solved the {disfmarker} the problem of um {disfmarker} we were talking about how do you {disfmarker} various issues of how come a pluralnoun gets to quote " count as a noun phrase " , you know , occur as an argument of a higher construction , but a bare singular stem doesn't get to act that way .Professor C: Right .Grad A: Um , and it would take areally long time to explain it now , but I 'm about to write it up this evening . I solved that at the same time as " how do we keep adjectives from floating to the left of determiners and how do we keep all of that fromfloating outside the noun phrase " to get something like " I the kicked dog " . Um . Did it {disfmarker} did it at once .Professor C: That 's great .Grad A: So maybe {disfmarker} maybe it 'll be a similar thing .Grad B:Cool .Professor C: Yeah . No , I know , I th I I think that is gonna be sort of the key to this wh to th the big project of the summer of {disfmarker} of getting the constructions right is that people do manage to do this sothere probably are some , uh , relatively clean rules , they 're just not context - free trees .Grad A: Right .Professor C: And if we {disfmarker} if the formalism is {disfmarker} is good , then we should be able to have ,you know , sort of moderate scale thing . And that by the way is {disfmarker} is , Keith , what I encouraged George to be talking with you about . Not the formalism yetGrad A: Mm - hmm .Professor C: but thephenomena .Grad A: Yeah .Professor C: The p And {disfmarker} Oh , another thing , um there was this , uh thing that Nancy agreed to in a {disfmarker} in a weak moment this morning thatGrad A: Hmm !Grad B: Iwas really strong .Grad A: Hmm !Grad F: Hmm .Professor C: Uh , sorry . In a {disfmarker} in a friendly moment .Grad A: Same thing .Professor C: Anyway , uh , that we were {disfmarker} that we 're gonna try to geta uh , first cut at the revised formalism by the end of next week .Grad A: Alright .Professor C: OK ? Probably skipping the mental spaces part .Grad B: Seems {disfmarker}Grad A: Right . I do .Professor C: Uh , justtrying to write up essentially what {disfmarker} what you guys have worked out so that everybody has something to look at . We 've talked about it , but only the innermost inner group currently , uh ,Grad A: Mm -hmm . Knows .Professor C: knows , uhGrad A: OK .Grad B: Yeah , and {disfmarker} and not even all of them really do .Grad A: Yeah .Grad B: But like {disfmarker}Professor C: Right .Grad A: There 's {disfmarker} Thegroup as a whole knows but no individual member knoProfessor C: Well that that {disfmarker} yeah th there 's one of the advantages of a document , right ? ,Grad A: Yeah .Professor C: is {disfmarker} is that itactually transfers from head to head .Grad B: Right .Grad A: OK .Professor C: So anyway . So um {disfmarker}Grad B: Ah , communication !Professor C: Huh ?Grad B: Communication .Grad A: Hunh !Professor C:Communication , documentation and stuff . Anyway , so , uh , with a little luck {disfmarker} Uh {disfmarker} l let 's , let 's have that as a goal anyway .Grad A: So , uh , what was the date there ?Professor C: And{disfmarker}Grad A: Monday or {disfmarker} ? It 's a Friday .Professor C: No , no , no . No , w uh {disfmarker} we 're talking about a week fr e end of next week .Grad A: End of next week .Grad B: But , uh , but{disfmarker} but the two of us will probably talk to you at well before thGrad A: I thought you said beginning of n Yeah .Grad B: I mean . Anyway , w let 's talk separately about how tGrad A: Yeah , I have a busyweekend but after that {disfmarker} {comment} {vocalsound} Yeah , gung - ho .Professor C: OK . Yeah , so {disfmarker} so someti sometime next week .Grad A: Great ,Professor C: Now if it turns out that that effortleads us into some big hole that 's fine .Grad A: Mm - hmm . OK .Professor C: You know , if you say we 're {disfmarker} we 're dump {disfmarker} dump {disfmarker} dump . There 's a really hard problem we haven'tsolved yet {disfmarker} that , that 's just fine .Grad A: OK .Grad B: Mm - hmm .Grad A: But at {disfmarker} at least sort of try and work out what the state of the art is right now .Professor C: Right , t t if {disfmarker}to the extent that we have it , let 's write itGrad A: OK .Professor C: and to the extent we don't , let 's find out what we need to do .Grad A: OK .Professor C: So , uhGrad E: Can we {disfmarker} ? {vocalsound} Is itworth {pause} thinking of an example out of our tourism thing domain , that involves a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a decent mental {pause} space shift {pause} or setting up {disfmarker}Professor C: I think it is ,but {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} but I interrupted before Keith got to tell us what happened with " where is the Powder - Tower ? " or whateverGrad B: Right .Grad A: Well . Uh , what was supposed to happen ? I 'vesort of been actually caught up in some other ones , so , um , you know , I don't have a write - up of {disfmarker} or I haven't elaborated on the ideas that we were already talking about which were {disfmarker}GradE: Hmm , yeah . I think {disfmarker} I think we already came to the conclusion that we have two alternative {pause} paths that we {disfmarker} two alternative ways of representing it . One is sort of a {disfmarker}has a umGrad A: It 's gone .Grad E: umGrad A: The question of whether the polysemy is sort of like in the construction or pragmatic .Grad B: One of them was th Right .Grad E: or comes {disfmarker}Grad B: Right.Grad E: is resolved later . Yeah .Grad A: I think it has to be the {disfmarker} the second case .Grad E: Yeah .Grad A: Um , so d ' you {disfmarker} Is it clear what we 're talking about here ?Grad B: I agree .Grad A:The question is whether the construction is semantic or like ambiguous between asking for location and asking for path .Professor C: Uh {disfmarker}Grad B: So you might be {disfmarker} yeah , y And asking fordirections .Grad E: It 's {disfmarker}Grad A: Um or {disfmarker} or whether the construction semantically , uh , is clearly only asking for locationGrad E: Should we have a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a