Project Manager: Okay um , welcome to our detailed design meeting . I'm pretty excited . Let's start it's approximately fifteen forty or something like that . Okay um the agenda {disfmarker} we're gonna do an openingand then um I'll talk about the minutes from the last meeting , what we d discussed um , then we'll have the prototype presentation and a look at the evaluation criteria . We'll look at the finances and finally a{disfmarker} do a production evaluation and close . So , starting off with the um last {disfmarker} the last one , oh I don't have it here um , but we talked about energy , we're gonna use a kinetic battery um , we wantto use a simple chip , because we're not gonna need a a shuffle um , we're gonna need a scroll um , we're choosing a latex case w in fruity colours that's curved and um we're using push buttons uh with a supplement ofan on-screen menu . And it sounded like we had set um like eight or nine buttons , including five pre-set channels . Okay ? Let's do the look and feel design presentation first .User Interface: Right , do you wanna start?Industrial Designer: Right , well we made three different prototypes and I guess we'll start with with this one . Um we have our colours not {disfmarker} are not fixed , but this is the general shape . Um it's{disfmarker} you hold it sort of either like like this in your left hand or you switch it over and uh it's easily adaptable to either hand . You can push the buttons with your thumb like a mobile phone , or you can pushthem with your index finger of your other hand , or even {disfmarker} I mean there's a whole variety , you can hold it like this and press it with your same index finger . Uh we have the on off button at the tip , veryvisible , very big . We have our up and down buttons , which are also gonna be our channel selectors , and we have our little menu button here . If you push {disfmarker} if you're just pushing these normally , they'rethe menu buttons , if {disfmarker} uh the volume buttons rather . If you press select once , they become channel changing buttons . If we press select three times , the menu with the other features and pro possiblyalso with your T_V_ channel choices shows up , and you have your five presets down here . Um if people wanna grab hold of that , see how it feels in your hand . That's our number one prototype . Um do you wannapresent the potato ,Project Manager: {gap} like a little lightning in it .Industrial Designer: or shall I present the Martian ?User Interface: Okay ,Project Manager: The little lightning bolt in it , very cute .User Interface:um {disfmarker} What {disfmarker} We call that one the rhombus ,Marketing: I could {disfmarker}Project Manager: The v the rhombus rhombus ?User Interface: uh the rhombus .Industrial Designer: That's therhombus , yep .User Interface: Um this one is known as the potato , uh it'sIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: it's a {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: how can I present it ? It's anergonomic shape , so it it fits in your hand nicely . Um it's designed to be used either in your left hand or or in your right hand . Um I've gone here just for just for four buttons on this one . Um the two blue buttons hereare for adjusting the volume . So you've got volume up and volume down on the other side here . Um the red ones are for uh changing channels , channel up and channel down and that's um moves between yourfavourite channels that you've selected . Uh this middle button here brings up the on-screen menu and when you're working in the on-screen menu you use the other four buttons to navigate around the menu systemand the middle button uh to select and that's basically it , that's the potato .Project Manager: Um on , off ?User Interface: Uh that would be one of your channels , basically ,Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: solike channel zero would be t to switch switch the machine off ,Project Manager: Yeah we turn it off .User Interface: yeah .Marketing: Could the middle button of the on-screen menu function as a power button ?UserInterface: Um not really ,Industrial Designer: {gap}User Interface: it would make it hard to turn the machine off , to turn your T_V_ off .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: If you pressed and held itmaybe .User Interface: Yeah yeah , that that'd be one way of doing it , yeah . That'd work , yeah .Marketing: If you like held it down , that would be on off .Industrial Designer: Yeah . On off , that's a possibility , yeah.Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: And then finally we have um the Martian or the pear , either way . Um it's a bit different , just a little bit more of a creative feel . Uh you have the on off toggle stem on thetop . {vocalsound} We have the five preset seeds {vocalsound} .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} And then you have on the sides to make it a little bit more three-dimensional , youhave your channel changing , volume changing buttons and your menu button right here in the middle . So , that's for your consideration as well , plus it's an interesting talking point to have standing up .User Interface:Let's pass .Industrial Designer: We figured it could stand up like this on your table , if you wanted it to , if I made the bot the bottom flat . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh-huh . {vocalsound}Marketing: Sorry , what'sthe yellow one in the middle ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh the menu select button . {vocalsound}Marketing: I forgot .Project Manager: {gap} Very interesting . {vocalsound} I think that one's my favourite.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: So that's {disfmarker} So that's our three prototypes . Um basically , in terms of making decisions , what we'd need to do is first of all decide on a form uh which of thethree different shapes we want , then decide what kind of button layout we want , how many buttons , and then to choose what colours we want to make the buttons and if we wanna put any text on the device , likelabel on the buttons or put a brand name or or a logo on it or whatever .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: We were we were thinking that normally we'd go for fruity colours , butmaybe we're also thinking that your sort of middle aged man , for an example customer , might not want a fruity coloured remote , so m maybe we'd have one version that's a bit toned down ,Project Manager: Mm 'kay.Industrial Designer: maybe with with less contrasts on it . Yeah , something still a little bright to make it hard to lose , but {disfmarker}User Interface: Would {disfmarker} Yeah , but we don't want it to look like a kids'toy {gap} .Industrial Designer: {gap} yeah .Project Manager: Now that was one thing that we brought up over email . I don't know if you picked up your email , but um the f the um feature that we considered for it notgetting lost .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Right . Well we were we were talking about that a little bit when we got that email and we think that each of these are so distinctive , that it {disfmarker} it's notjust like another piece of technology around your house . It's gonna be somewhere that it can be seen .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: So we're we're not thinking that it's gonna be as critical to havethe loss {disfmarker}Marketing: But if it's like under covers or like in a couch you still can't see it .Project Manager: It's really {disfmarker} Would it be very difficult to um just have an external device that like I dunno ,you tape to your to your T_V_ um that when you press it you ha a little light beep goes off ? Do you think that would be conceptually possible ?Industrial Designer: I think {disfmarker}User Interface: I think it would bedifficult technologically ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: because if your if your remote's lost it's probably under the settee and in that case you can't you can't send an infrared sing signal to it to find it,Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: s so it's {disfmarker} I'm not quite sure how it would workProject Manager: That's true , mm 'kay .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: and then I wonder if it's if it's morejust a gimmick then anything else . Uh I mean ho how many times do you really , seriously lose your remote control and would would a device like that actually help you to find it ?Industrial Designer: There might besomething that you can do in the circuit board and the chip to make it make a noise or something , but it would take a lot more development than we have this afternoon .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Okay , that's afair evaluation . Getting lost . Um we {disfmarker} so we do we've decided not to worry about that for now . Okay 'cause {disfmarker} well , the designs are very bright , so you're right , they're gonna stick out , butum {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So d do people have a preference as far as feel and functionality ? Um .Marketing: I feel like this is simil {vocalsound} or it's sort of what already exists so if we're trying to think ofsomething sort of like new and fun , even though this is like what you're init I'm initially drawn to , just 'cause it's like comfortable and like not different . I sort of like this one , like I I don't know why , it just it's likesmall but still sort of like cute looking , I dunno . But I also like the b the side buttons on that one , like I think that's kind of neat .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: But I dunno how much any of this has to dowith the fashionable , sort of cool looking thing that we also need to focus on {vocalsound} .Project Manager: Could we maybe have like an extra button on the top for on off ? So then w we wouldn't have to have like adual function ?Industrial Designer: Mm yeah ,User Interface: Yeah , it's possible , yeah , yeah .Marketing: Ah ,Industrial Designer: that's good , that's good .Marketing: there we go .Industrial Designer: Here , stick it on.User Interface: {vocalsound} Put an extra the button on {gap} {vocalsound} .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Sure .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um uh why don't we do a productevaluation using your criteria , if you've developed some ?Marketing: Well do we w {vocalsound} like I think we're supposed to have one that we do it for .Project Manager: Oh okay . Okay .Marketing: That was{vocalsound} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So where {disfmarker}Marketing: I was a little vague on what exactly I'm supposed to do , but let me {disfmarker} I have to like write something on the whiteboard , so.Project Manager: Okay . Do you need thisIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: or just write on the white board ?Marketing: No , I actually don't have like a PowerPointy thing ,Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: Right .Marketing: 'cause I think it would be redundant .Industrial Designer: Okay .Marketing: I dunno .Project Manager: It's kind of like uh like a joystick kind of thing ,Industrial Designer:{vocalsound} Ooh .Project Manager: you know ,User Interface: {vocalsound} Cool .Project Manager: kinda push it {vocalsound} .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Hey .Project Manager: 'Kay .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Maybe a little smaller than that {gap} .Industrial Designer: No , I kinda like it .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: That's hard to miss .User Interface: It makes look morefruity as well .Project Manager: Oh it does ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: it's kind of like {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {gap} {vocalsound}User Interface: It's like adeformed foot , I dunno . {vocalsound}Project Manager: There it could have a stem like that , 'cause I do l kind of like the stem .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Like {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah . It almost helps you ge keep a grip too , 'cause it goes in between fingers {gap} .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer:Interesting .Project Manager: I like this one .Industrial Designer: Okay ,Project Manager: Variety of colours are nice .Industrial Designer: is that where people are leaning then , the potato ? I like the idea of the{disfmarker}Project Manager: I think I'm leaning towards the potato .Industrial Designer: I mean that's really gotten the simplicity of the buttons down , that one .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . I am worried about likeum using a menu . Um in that {disfmarker} like i withing menus there are submenus , and so how do you get back to the main menu ?Industrial Designer: Hmm .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Well that{disfmarker} on the iPod , for example , you just {disfmarker} every time you wanna go back you hit the menu button again and it brings you back one level .Project Manager: But that has a menu button separatefrom a select button , whereas if this one's both the menu and the select button ?User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Good point .User Interface: This is , it's {disfmarker} the up and down buttons are used forscrolling up and down for a list of choices .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: You find the choice that you want and you press uh you press the right button uh .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Could these be usedfor going to submenusMarketing: {gap}User Interface: Yeah . Yeah , so they're used for going into and out of your submenus , yeah .Project Manager: or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Maybe{disfmarker} yeah ,Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: maybe it can be one of those , if you press down and hold for two seconds , then it brings you back one level or something .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Okay . Well , as long as we have that in mind as we're designing it still , mm 'kay .Marketing: Okay , so which one are we sort of roughly looking at to address whether or not it meets our s um necessities , the yellowyone is that {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: The potato ? Are we leaning towards the potato ?User Interface: Potato .Project Manager: {vocalsound} I think so .Marketing: Okay , well we can obviously change it afterwe go through each different one .Industrial Designer: Okay .Marketing: So basically what we need to do is some of the things that we've talked about before we need to make sure that that remote actually doesconform to the things that we said it was going to .Industrial Designer: Okay .Marketing: So what we sort of wanna do is that we each need to separately rank each of the following things and then I'll tabulate anaverage just to make sure that it does meet that .Industrial Designer: Okay .Marketing: So we'll just go through them one at a time and we'll just go around and each of you can tell me on a scale of one to seven withone being really extremely true and seven being not true at all , or false , if the remote that we've created conforms to the following criteria . So we can do this one first . First we wanna know if it meets the fancy lookand feel um objective . So like in my opinion the {vocalsound} {disfmarker} for now at least , the yellow one is probably somewhere in the middle so I'm gonna say it's like a three . That's just my opinion .IndustrialDesigner: Yeah .Marketing: What does {vocalsound} each of you {disfmarker}Project Manager: I I kind of think it's it's unique enough that I'd give it a one or a two .Marketing: Okay , well give it a number ,ProjectManager: Okay .Marketing: sorry {vocalsound} .Project Manager: I will give it a one .Industrial Designer: Um I dunno if it's it's creative . I dunno if fancy is the word I would use . I dunno if any of them are fancy in{disfmarker} I'd say two , because c unique .Marketing: Okay .User Interface: I'll go for two .Marketing: And two , awesome . Alright , and same sort of scale for functionality , is it functional ? I think it's extremelyfunctional , I'm gonna give it a one .Industrial Designer: Yeah , one .Marketing: One ?User Interface: I think it's it's functional , it's also pretty basic , so I'll give it a two .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Umfunctional . I think it'll get everything done , I think it might be a little confusing at first , um , I don't know if that's gonna be a later one .Marketing: Okay . Well there's some other ones , I will address that ,ProjectManager: Okay , then I'm gonna give it a two .Marketing: yeah . Awesome , okay . Um we wanna know next if it's technologically innovative .Project Manager: Did you give a functional {gap} ?Marketing: Yeah , shesaid it was one .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Um is it technologically innovative ? Mm . Not really , I mean not so much , 'cause we we don't have the L_C_D_ screen , we don't have fancy chip . Other than what itlooks like , I dunno if it's really {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well , the kinetic battery .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} In the battery , that's it .Marketing: I kinetic battery is a big one , so .Industrial Designer: Howmany people would notice that , though ?Marketing: Mm . But it {disfmarker}Project Manager: But they'll notice it after like a year ,Marketing: but we know it's there .Project Manager: they'll be like hey , I have neverchanged the battery .Marketing: And if it's made of like latex , that whole idea , that's pretty cool .Project Manager: Mm . Just the material .Marketing: I'll give it a three . 'Cause it {disfmarker} we could've picked a lotof features that would've made it really {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah . I I would say that it's {disfmarker} Yeah , like fancy versus creative it's it's different . But does that equal innovative ? I dunno . I'll give ita three .Marketing: Alright . Everyone else ?User Interface: I'd say it's technologically it's not it's not unique , I mean it's it's just {disfmarker} it is just pushbuttons um , so I I'd give it a four .Project Manager: ThinkI'm gonna go with the four as well .Marketing: Mm 'kay .Project Manager: I really like that kinetic battery though .Marketing: Next , is it easy to use ? Just so you know , easy to learn will be separate ,Project Manager:Mm 'kay .Marketing: so don't overlap them .Industrial Designer: Okay .Marketing: I think it's really easy to use . I'll give it a two .Industrial Designer: Um I'll give it a one . Pretty hard to mess up .User Interface: I'll sayone .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh let's say two .Marketing: Alright . Um we next wanna see if it has a spongy qualityIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: and {vocalsound} ifindeed it's made of latex or rubber I {disfmarker} it's spongy all the way . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Give it a one .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: Iwonder if it bounces when you drop it .Industrial Designer: Ooh , that you couldn't {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: it'd be harder to break ,Project Manager: Mm.Industrial Designer: harder to lose . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: 'Cause there would be less impact maybe , {vocalsound} .Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: YeahMarketing: Iain , whatdo you give it ?User Interface: I'd I'd give it a one .Marketing: Alright and the next is , does it integrate some notion of fruits and vegetables {vocalsound} ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh um{vocalsound} .Marketing: Well , is it gonna be yellow ?Industrial Designer: It it might be , 'cause that's our corporate colour , isn't it ?Project Manager: That's right , yeah , corporate colour , we didn't keep that in{disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: um wellIndustrial Designer: We might wanna keep it yellow .Project Manager: if we {disfmarker} I know it would make it a little less c a little more confusing , but ifwe had all the buttons in black , and a design in {disfmarker} and the outside in yellow , that'd be our corporate one and we could also have alternative colours , one a more conservative one , one that's more fruity.User Interface: {gap}Marketing: Yeah , but if you had like a silvery kind of white or something .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah , {gap} {disfmarker}Project Manager: Um and can we have like an R_R_inscribed on the bottom or something ?Industrial Designer: If we had a yellow {disfmarker} Sure .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Oh , yeah .Project Manager: Fruity , so fruity .IndustrialDesigner: So {vocalsound}Marketing: Alright , so I think it it's {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: it was inspired by the potato , so I think it's pretty fruity .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: I think i it's kind of mangoeytoo .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Oh , mangoUser Interface: Mangoey is better , yeah .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Yes .Marketing: I {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: that that {vocalsound}{disfmarker}User Interface: I like mangoes {vocalsound} .Marketing: okay , I'm giving it a one {vocalsound} the mango {gap} put me over .Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: That's a much more trendy thana potato {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} What are {disfmarker} what's everyone's numbers ?Industrial Designer: one .User Interface: Uh two .Project Manager: One .Industrial Designer:


Grad B: So I guess this is more or less now just to get you up to date , Johno . This is what , uh ,Grad C: This is a meeting for me .Grad B: um , Eva , Bhaskara , and I did .Grad D: Did you add more stuff to it ? {pause}later ?Grad B: Um . Why ?Grad D: Um . I don't know . There were , like , the {disfmarker} you know , @ @ and all that stuff . But . I thought you {disfmarker} you said you were adding stuffGrad B: Uh , no .Grad D:but {pause} I don't know .Grad B: This is {disfmarker} Um , Ha ! Very nice . Um , so we thought that , {vocalsound} We can write up uh , an element , and {disfmarker} for each of the situation nodes that weobserved in the Bayes - net ? So . What 's the situation like at the entity that is mentioned ? if we know anything about it ? Is it under construction ? Or is it on fire or something {pause} happening to it ? Or is it stable ?and so forth , going all the way um , f through Parking , Location , Hotel , Car , Restroom , @ @ {comment} Riots , Fairs , Strikes , or Disasters .Grad C: So is {disfmarker} This is {disfmarker} A situation are{disfmarker} is all the things which can be happening right now ? Or , what is the situation type ?Grad B: That 's basically {pause} just specifying the {disfmarker} the input for the {disfmarker} w what 'sGrad C: Oh , Isee y Why are you specifying it in XML ?Grad B: Um . Just because it forces us to be specific about the values {pause} here ?Grad C: OK .Grad B: And , also , I mean , this is a {disfmarker} what the input is going to be. Right ? So , we will , uh {disfmarker} This is a schema . This is {disfmarker}Grad C: Well , yeah . I just don't know if this is th l what the {disfmarker} Does {disfmarker} This is what Java Bayes takes ? as a Bayes -net spec ?Grad B: No , because I mean if we {disfmarker} I mean we 're sure gonna interface to {disfmarker} We 're gonna get an XML document from somewhere . Right ? And that XML document will say " We areable to {disfmarker} We were able to observe that w the element , um , @ @ {comment} of the Location that the car is near . " So that 's gonna be {disfmarker} {vocalsound} {comment} Um .Grad C: So this is thesituational context , everything in it . Is that what Situation is short for , shi situational context ?Grad B: Yep .Grad C: OK .Grad B: So this is just , again , a an XML schemata which defines a set of possible , uh ,permissible XML structures , which we view as input into the Bayes - net . Right ?Grad C: And then we can r {pause} uh possibly run one of them uh transformations ? That put it into the format that the Bayes n or JavaBayes or whatever wants ?Grad B: Yea - Are you talking {disfmarker} are you talking about the {disfmarker} the structure ?Grad C: Well it {disfmarker}Grad B: I mean when you observe a node .Grad C: When you{disfmarker} when you say {pause} the input to the {pause} v Java Bayes , {comment} it takes a certain format ,Grad B: Um - hmm .Grad C: right ? Which I don't think is this . Although I don't know .Grad B: No , it's certainly not this . Nuh .Grad C: So you could just {disfmarker} Couldn't you just run a {disfmarker}Grad B: XSL . {comment} Yeah .Grad C: Yeah . To convert it into the Java Bayes for format ?Grad B: Yep .Grad C:OK .Grad B: That 's {disfmarker} That 's no problem , but I even think that , um {disfmarker} I mean , once {disfmarker} Once you have this sort of as {disfmarker} running as a module {disfmarker} Right ? Whatyou want is {disfmarker} You wanna say , " OK , give me the posterior probabilities of the Go - there {pause} node , when this is happening . " Right ? When the person said this , the car is there , it 's raining , and thisis happening . And with this you can specify the {disfmarker} what 's happening in the situation , and what 's happening with the user . So we get {disfmarker} After we are done , through the Situation we get the UserVector . So , this is a {disfmarker}Grad C: So this is just a specification of all the possible inputs ?Grad B: Yep . And , all the possible outputs , too . So , we have , um , for example , the , uh , Go - there decisionnodeGrad C: OK .Grad B: which has two elements , going - there and its posterior probability , and not - going - there and its posterior probability , because the output is always gonna be all the decision nodes and allthe {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} a all the posterior probabilities for all the values .Grad C: And then we would just look at the , eh , Struct that we wanna look at in terms of if {disfmarker} if we 're only asking aboutone of the {disfmarker} So like , if I 'm just interested in the going - there node , I would just pull that information out of the Struct that gets return that would {disfmarker} that Java Bayes would output ?Grad B: Um ,pretty much , yes , but I think it 's a little bit more complex . As , if I understand it correctly , it always gives you all the posterior probabilities for all the values of all decision nodes . So , when we input something , wealways get the , uh , posterior probabilities for all of these . Right ?Grad C: OK .Grad B: So there is no way of telling it t not to tell us about the EVA {pause} values .Grad C: Yeah , wait I agree , that 's {disfmarker}yeah , use {disfmarker} oh , uh {pause} Yeah , OK .Grad B: So {disfmarker} so we get this whole list of {disfmarker} of , um , things , and the question is what to do with it , what to hand on , how to interpret it , in asense . So y you said if you {disfmarker} " I 'm only interested in whether he wants to go there or not " , then I just look at that node , look which one {disfmarker}Grad C: Look at that Struct in the output ,Grad B: Yep.Grad C: right ?Grad B: Look at that Struct in the {disfmarker} the output , even though I wouldn't call it a " Struct " . But .Grad C: Well i well , it 's an XML Structure that 's being res returned ,Grad B: Oh . Mm - hmm.Grad C: right ?Grad B: So every part of a structure is a " Struct " . Yeah .Grad C: Yeah , I just uh {disfmarker} I just was {disfmarker} abbreviated it to Struct in my head , and started going with that .Grad B: Thatelement or object , I would say .Grad C: Not a C Struct . That 's not what I was trying to kGrad B: Yeah .Grad C: though yeah .Grad B: OK . And , um , the reason is {disfmarker} why I think it 's a little bit morecomplex or why {disfmarker} why we can even think about it as an interesting problem in and of itself is {disfmarker} Um . So . The , uh {disfmarker} Let 's look at an example .Grad C: Well , w wouldn't we just takethe structure that 's outputted and then run another transformation on it , that would just dump the one that we wanted out ?Grad B: Yeah . w We 'd need to prune . Right ? Throw things away .Grad C: Well , actually ,you don't even need to do that with XML .Grad B: NoGrad C: D Can't you just look at one specific {disfmarker}Grad B: Yeah , exactly . The {disfmarker} @ @ {comment} Xerxes allows you to say , u " Just give me thevalue of that , and that , and that . " But , we don't really know what we 're interested in {pause} before we look at the complete {disfmarker} at {disfmarker} at the overall result . So the person said , um , " Where isX ? " and so , we want to know , um , is {disfmarker} Does he want info ? o on this ? or know the location ? Or does he want to go there ? Let 's assume this is our {disfmarker} our question .Grad C: Sure .Grad B: Nuh? So . Um . Do this in Perl . So we get {disfmarker} OK . Let 's assume this is the output . So . We should con be able to conclude from that that {disfmarker} I mean . It 's always gonna give us a value of how likely wethink i it is that he wants to go there and doesn't want to go there , or how likely it is that he wants to get information . But , maybe w we should just reverse this to make it a little bit more delicate . So , does he wannaknow where it is ? or does he wanna go there ?Grad C: He wants to know where it is .Grad B: Right . I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I tend to agree . And if it 's {disfmarker} If {disfmarker}Grad C: Well now , y I mean ,you could {disfmarker}Grad B: And i if there 's sort of a clear winner here , and , um {disfmarker} and this is pretty , uh {disfmarker} indifferent , then we {disfmarker} then we might conclude that he actually wantsto just know where , uh t uh , he does want to go there .Grad C: Uh , out of curiosity , is there a reason why we wouldn't combine these three nodes ? into one smaller subnet ? that would just basically be {pause} thequestion for {disfmarker} We have " where is X ? " is the question , right ? That would just be Info - on or Location ? Based upon {disfmarker}Grad B: Or Go - there . A lot of people ask that , if they actually just wannago there . People come up to you on campus and say , " Where 's the library ? " You 're gonna say {disfmarker} y you 're gonna say , g " Go down that way . " You 're not gonna say " It 's {disfmarker} It 's five hundredyards away from you " or " It 's north of you " , or {disfmarker} " it 's located {disfmarker} "Grad C: Well , I mean {disfmarker} But the {disfmarker} there 's {disfmarker} So you just have three decisions for the finalnode , that would link thes these three nodes in the net together .Grad B: Um . I don't know whether I understand what you mean . But . Again , in this {disfmarker} Given this input , we , also in some situations , maywanna postulate an opinion whether that person wants to go there now the nicest way , use a cab , or so s wants to know it {disfmarker} wants to know where it is because he wants something fixed there , because hewants to visit t it or whatever . So , it {disfmarker} n I mean {disfmarker} a All I 'm saying is , whatever our input is , we 're always gonna get the full output . And some {disfmarker} some things will always be sort oftoo {disfmarker} not significant enough .Grad C: Wha Or i or i it 'll be tight . You won't {disfmarker} it 'll be hard to decide .Grad B: Yep .Grad C: But I mean , I guess {disfmarker} I guess the thing is , uh , this isanother , smaller , case of reasoning in the case of an uncertainty , which makes me think Bayes - net should be the way to solve these things . So if you had {disfmarker} If for every construction ,Grad B: Oh !Grad C:right ? you could say , " Well , there {disfmarker} Here 's the Where - Is construction . " And for the Where - Is construction , we know we need to l look at this node , that merges these three things togetherGrad B:Mm - hmm .Grad C: as for th to decide the response . And since we have a finite number of constructions that we can deal with , we could have a finite number of nodes .Grad B: OK . Mm - hmm .Grad C: Say , if wehad to y deal with arbitrary language , it wouldn't make any sense to do that , because there 'd be no way to generate the nodes for every possible sentence .Grad B: Mm - hmm .Grad C: But since we can only deal witha finite amount of stuff {disfmarker}Grad B: So , basically , the idea is to f to feed the output of that belief - net into another belief - net .Grad C: Yeah , so basically take these three things and then put them intoanother belief - net .Grad B: But , why {disfmarker} why {disfmarker} why only those three ? Why not the wholGrad C: Well , I mean , d For the Where - Is question . So we 'd have a node for the Where - Is question.Grad B: Yeah . But we believe that all the decision nodes are {disfmarker} can be relevant for the Where - Is , and the Where {disfmarker} How - do - I - get - to or the Tell - me - something - about .Grad C: You cancome in if you want .Grad B: Yes , it is allowed .Grad C: As long as y you 're not wearing your h your h headphones . Well , I do I {disfmarker} See , I don't know if this is a {pause} good idea or not . I 'm just throwingit out . But uh , it seems like we could have {disfmarker} I mea or uh we could put all of the all of the r information that could also be relevant {pause} into the Where - Is node answerGrad B: Mm - hmm . Yep .Grad C:node thing stuff . And uh {disfmarker}Grad D: OK .Grad B: I mean {disfmarker} Let 's not forget we 're gonna get some very strong {pause} input from {pause} these sub dis from these discourse things , right ? So . "Tell me the location of X . " Nuh ? Or " Where is X located at ? "Grad C: We uGrad B: Nuh ?Grad C: Yeah , I know , but the Bayes - net would be able to {disfmarker} The weights on the {disfmarker} on the nodes in theBayes - net would be able to do all that ,Grad B: Mm - hmm .Grad C: wouldn't it ? Here 's a k Oh ! Oh , I 'll wait until you 're {pause} plugged in . Oh , don't sit there . Sit here . You know how you don't like that one . It's OK . That 's the weird one . That 's the one that 's painful . That hurts . It hurts so bad . I 'm h I 'm happy that they 're recording that . That headphone . The headphone {pause} that you have to put on backwards ,with the little {disfmarker} little thing {disfmarker} and the little {disfmarker} little foam block on it ? It 's a painful , painful microphone .Grad B: I think it 's th called " the Crown " .Grad C: The crown ?Grad D: What?Grad B: Yeah , versus " the Sony " .Grad A: The Crown ? Is that the actual name ? OK .Grad B: Mm - hmm . The manufacturer .Grad C: I don't see a manufacturer on it .Grad B: You wGrad C: Oh , wait , here it is . hThis thingy . Yeah , it 's " The Crown " . The crown of pain !Grad A: Yes .Grad B: You 're on - line ?Grad C: Are you {disfmarker} are your mike o Is your mike on ?Grad A: Indeed .Grad C: OK . So you 've been workingwith these guys ? You know what 's going on ?Grad A: Yes , I have . And , I do . Yeah , alright . s So where are we ?Grad C: Excellent !Grad B: We 're discussing this .Grad A: I don't think it can handle French , butanyway .Grad B: So . Assume we have something coming in . A person says , " Where is X ? " , and we get a certain {disfmarker} We have a Situation vector and a User vector and everything is fine ? An - an and{disfmarker} and our {disfmarker} and our {disfmarker}Grad C: Did you just sti Did you just stick the m the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the microphone actually in the tea ?Grad A: No .Grad B: And , um ,Grad A: I'm not drinking tea . What are you talking about ?Grad C: Oh , yeah . Sorry .Grad B: let 's just assume our Bayes - net just has three decision nodes for the time being . These three , he wants to know something aboutit , he wants to know where it is , he wants to go there .Grad C: In terms of , these would be wha how we would answer the question Where - Is , right ? We u This is {disfmarker} i That 's what you s it seemed like ,explained it to me earlierGrad B: Yeah , but , mmm .Grad C: w We {disfmarker} we 're {disfmarker} we wanna know how to answer the question " Where is X ? "Grad B: Yeah . No , I can {disfmarker} I can do theTiming node in here , too , and say " OK . "Grad C: Well , yeah , but in the s uh , let 's just deal with the s the simple case of we 're not worrying about timing or anything . We just want to know how we should answer "Where is X ? "Grad B: OK . And , um , OK , and , Go - there has two values , right ? , Go - there and not - Go - there . Let 's assume those are the posterior probabilities of that .Grad A: Mm - hmm .Grad B: Info - onhas True or False and Location . So , he wants to know something about it , and he wants to know something {disfmarker} he wants to know Where - it - is ,Grad A: Excuse me .Grad B: has these values . And , um,Grad C: Oh , I see why we can't do that .Grad B: And , um , in this case we would probably all agree that he wants to go there . Our belief - net thinks he wants to go there ,Grad A: Yeah .Grad B: right ?Grad A: Mm -hmm .Grad B: In the , uh , whatever , if we have something like this here , and this like that and maybe here also some {disfmarker}Grad A: You should probably {comment} make them out of {disfmarker} Yeah.Grad B: something like that ,Grad C: Well , itGrad B: then we would guess , " Aha ! He , our belief - net , {comment} has s stronger beliefs that he wants to know where it is , than actually wants to go {pause} there ." Right ?Grad C: That it {disfmarker} Doesn't this assume , though , that they 're evenly weighted ?Grad D: True .Grad C: Like {disfmarker} I guess they are evenly weighted .Grad A: The different decision nodes , youmean ?Grad C: Yeah , the Go - there , the Info - on , and the Location ?Grad A: Well , d yeah , this is making the assumption . Yes .Grad C: Like {disfmarker}Grad B: What do you mean by " differently weighted " ?They don't feed into anything really anymore .Grad A: But I mean , why do we {disfmarker}Grad C: Or I jusGrad A: If we trusted the Go - there node more th much more than we trusted the other ones , then we wouldconclude , even in this situation , that he wanted to go there .Grad C: LeGrad A: So , in that sense , we weight them equally right now .Grad B: OK . Makes sense . Yeah . But {disfmarker}Grad C: So the But I guess thek the question {disfmarker} that I was as er wondering or maybe Robert was proposing to me is {disfmarker} How do we d make the decision on {disfmarker} as to {disfmarker} which one to listen to ?Grad A: Yeah ,so , the final d decision is the combination of these three . So again , it 's {disfmarker} it 's some kind of , uh {disfmarker}Grad C: Bayes - net .Grad A: Yeah , sure .Grad C: OK so , then , the question i So then myquestion is t to you then , would be {disfmarker} So is the only r reason we can make all these smaller Bayes - nets , because we know we can only deal with a finite set of constructions ? Cuz oth If we 're just takingarbitrary language in , we couldn't have a node for every possible question , you know ?Grad A: A decision node for every possible question , you mean ?Grad C: Well , I {disfmarker} like , in the case of {disfmarker}Yeah . In the ca Any piece of language , we wouldn't be able to answer it with this system , b if we just h Cuz we wouldn't have the correct node . Basically , w what you 're s proposing is a n Where - Is node , right?Grad A: Yeah .Grad C: And {disfmarker} and if we {disfmarker} And if someone {disfmarker} says , you know , uh , something in Mandarin to the system , we 'd - wouldn't know which node to look at to answer thatquestion ,Grad A: So is {disfmarker} Yeah . Yeah .Grad C: right ?Grad B: Mmm ?Grad C: So , but {disfmarker} but if we have a finite {disfmarker} What ?Grad B: I don't see your point . What {disfmarker} what{disfmarker} what I am thinking , or what we 're about to propose here is we 're always gonna get the whole list of values and their posterior probabilities . And now we need an expert system or belief - net orsomething that interprets that , that looks at all the values and says , " The winner is Timing . Now , go there . " " Uh , go there , Timing , now . " Or , " The winner is Info - on , Function - Off . " So , he wants to know{pause} something about it , and what it does . Nuh ? Uh , regardless of {disfmarker} of {disfmarker} of the input . Wh - RegardleGrad C: Yeah , but But how does the expert {disfmarker} but how does the expertsystem know {disfmarker} how who which one to declare the winner , if it doesn't know the question it is , and how that question should be answered ?Grad B: Based on the k what the question was , so what thediscourse , the ontology , the situation and the user model gave us , we came up with these values for these decisions .Grad C: Yeah I know . But how do we weight what we get out ? As , which one i Which ones areimportant ? So my i So , if we were to it with a Bayes - net , we 'd have to have a node {disfmarker} for every question that we knew how to deal with , that would take all of the inputs and weight them appropriatelyfor that question .Grad B: Mm - hmm .Grad C: Does that make sense ? Yay , nay ?Grad A: Um , I mean , are you saying that , what happens if you try to scale this up to the situation , or are we just dealing witharbitrary language ?Grad C: We {disfmarker}Grad A: Is that your point ?Grad C: Well , no . I {disfmarker} I guess my question is , Is the reason that we can make a node f or {disfmarker} OK . So , lemme see if I 'mconfused . Are we going to make a node for every question ? Does that make sense ? {disfmarker}Grad A: For every question ?Grad C: Or not .Grad A: Like {disfmarker}Grad C: Every construction .Grad A: Hmm . Idon't {disfmarker} Not necessarily , I would think . I mean , it 's not based on constructions , it 's based on things like , uh , there 's gonna be a node for Go - there or not , and there 's gonna be a node for Enter , View, Approach .Grad C: Wel W OK . So , someone asked a question .Grad A: Yeah .Grad C: How do we decide how to answer it ?Grad B: Well , look at {disfmarker} look {disfmarker} Face yourself with this pr question .You get this {disfmarker} You 'll have {disfmarker} y This is what you get . And now you have to make a decision . What do we think ? What does this tell us ? And not knowing what was asked , and what happened ,and whether the person was a tourist or a local , because all of these factors have presumably already gone into making these posterior probabilities . What {disfmarker} what we need is a {disfmarker} just amechanism that says , " Aha ! There is {disfmarker} "Grad C: Yeah . I just don't think a " winner - take - all " type of thing is the {disfmarker}Grad A: I mean , in general , like , we won't just have those three , right ?


The Chair (Hon. Anthony Rota (NipissingTimiskaming, Lib.)): I call this meeting to order. Welcome to meeting number 22 of the House of Commons Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic. A reminder to allmembers that in order to avoid issues with sound, members participating in person should not also be connected to the video conference. For those joining via video conference, I would like to remind you that, whenspeaking, you should be on the same channel as the language you are speaking. As usual, please direct your remarks through the chair. I understand we don't have any ministerial announcements today, so we'llproceed to presenting petitions. I would like to remind members that any petition presented during a meeting of the special committee must have already been certified by the clerk of petitions. For membersparticipating in person, we ask that they please come and drop the signed certificate off at the table once the petition is presented. The first petition will be presented by Ms.May.Ms. Elizabeth May (SaanichGulf Islands,GP): Mr. Chair, it's an honour to rise in meeting number 22 of the COVID-19 committee, otherwise known as something like the House of Commons. I'm here to present two petitions containing hundreds of signatureson the issue of the treatment of Falun Gong practitioners by the People's Republic of China, particularly the practice that's alleged of involuntary organ harvesting. The petitioners ask the Government of Canada tocondemn this practice and to publicly call for an end to the persecution of Falun Gong in the People's Republic of China. The second petition is from residents throughout SaanichGulf Islands concerned about what was,at the time this petition was submitted, a future problem. It remains an issue, and I present it on behalf of petitioners who wish the Government of Canada not to put public funds into purchasing or maintaining theTrans Mountain pipeline or towards any expansion of the pipeline.The Chair: Next we'll go to Ms. Kwan.Ms. Jenny Kwan (Vancouver East, NDP): Mr. Chair, I rise to table two petitions. The first petition deals with theCOVID-19 situation. The petitioners note the pandemic is having a devastating impact on many Canadians nationwide, especially those who have low to modest income, small business gig workers, freelancers, artists,film industry workers, non-salaried workers and individuals on fixed incomes such as seniors and those on disability. It further notes that rent, mortgage and utility payments are due at the end of each month, puttingcountless Canadians at risk of losing their housing. It is paramount there be safe self-isolation opportunities for all individuals in this country. To that end, the petitioners are calling for the government to immediatelyenact a nationwide rent freeze, eviction freeze, mortgage freeze and utility freeze, enforce mortgage deferrals for homeowners without penalty or interest charges from financial institutions and provide direct assistancein the form of a monthly, universal, direct payment of $2,000 per month for all, with an additional $250 per child immediately. The second petition deals with the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion. These petitionersjoin the hundreds of thousands of people who are opposed to the expansion. Trans Mountain, in building the pipeline, brings massive environmental and economic risk with no substantial benefit to British Columbia or tolocal residents. Approximately 40,000 barrels of oil have already leaked from existing Kinder Morgan pipelines, including two major spills in Burnaby since 2007. I might note, Mr. Chair, that just this past weekend therewas yet another spill to the tune of 1,195 barrels here in British Columbia. There is no known scientific technology to clean up the bitumen when there is a spill, and the number of tankers would go from eight to 34 permonth into the Burrard Inlet. It puts at risk many residential neighbourhoods and the traditional territories of at least 15 first nations.The Chair: May I interrupt for a moment, Ms. Kwan. I want to remind all members inthe House that when presenting a petition, the idea is to be as concise as possible. Ms. Kwan, I'll let you wrap up, please.Ms. Jenny Kwan: Thank you, Mr. Chair. The petitioners are calling for the government toimmediately act to prevent this new oil pipeline from proceeding through British Columbia.The Chair: Thank you. We'll now go to Mr. Genuis.Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood ParkFort Saskatchewan, CPC): Mr. Chair, Ihave four petitions to present today. The first petition reflects the outrage of my constituents at the ever-expanding order in council from the government banning more and more firearms. In particular, the petitionershighlight the failure of the government to act on the issue of illegal guns. The petitioners note that virtually all violent crimes committed in Canada, including the recent shooting in Nova Scotia, involve illegal firearms inthe hands of those who are already not permitted to possess them. The petition has two asks. First of all, it asks that we reverse the order in council banning certain firearms, but also that we propose measures that willeffectively address the illegal use of firearms by criminals while respecting the rights of law-abiding citizens. It also asks that we ensure that substantial changes to firearms laws in future actually be made byParliament, not by the government acting in an unaccountable manner. The second petition deals with Bill C-8, which is the government's bill around conversion therapy. The petitioners support efforts to ban conversiontherapy. They express concern about problems in the wording of the definition used in the legislation. They're asking the government to support amendments to fix the definition to address the issue of conversiontherapy and ensure that the definition is correct and doesn't criminalize certain forms of counselling that individuals may voluntarily enter into. The third petition is regarding Bill S-204, a bill in the Senate that seeks tomake it a criminal offence for a person to go abroad to receive an organ without consent, dealing especially with the horrific practice of forced organ harvesting and trafficking in China. The petitioners are supportive ofBill S-204 and want to see it move forward. The final petition is with respect to Bill C-7. There's been much discussion in this House about the need to do better in terms of long-term care. Rather than working to dobetter in long-term care, unfortunately we've seen the government removing vital safeguards in the area of euthanasia. I think our focus should be on assisting life rather than removing safeguards that are required inassociation with the euthanasia regime. The petitioners are particularly concerned about the government's plan to remove a 10-day reflection period that normally takes place. That period can already be waived undercertain circumstances, but Bill C-7 proposes to remove it entirely as well as reduce the number of witnesses involved. The petitioners are quite concerned about what's going on in Bill C-7 and call for it to be stopped oramended.The Chair: Presenting petitions. We'll proceed to statements by members. We'll start off with Mr. Manly.Mr. Paul Manly (NanaimoLadysmith, GP): Mr. Chair, we are in the midst of a global pandemic and aneconomic shock. Recent events have ripped open the wound of systemic racism in our country. Racialized and marginalized communities have been disproportionally affected by the pandemic. Thousands of seniors inlong-term care facilities have died. It is clear that we need system change. In the past, governments have bailed out banks and corporations because they were too big to fail. It is time to bail out humanity and theplanet. No one will be immune from the threat of climate change and mass extinction. Both are the result of the exploitation of the natural world in the name of the economy. Humans created the economy. We canchoose to change it. We must protect our environment or perish. COVID-19 has demonstrated that together we can take courageous action for the common good. We need to do the same for the climate crisis, becausehumanity and our planet are too big to fail.The Chair: We'll now go to Mr. Spengemann.Mr. Sven Spengemann (MississaugaLakeshore, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, today marks World Elder Abuse Awareness Day.Underestimated and under-reported, elder abuse exists across the world. At risk of neglect and assault, many of the most vulnerable older persons reside in our long-term care facilities. They are the seniors who havebuilt our country and shaped our communities, who have shown us resilience, courage and selflessness, who have made us stronger, and whose work and teachings continue to inspire us. They are parents andgrandparents, brothers and sisters, friends and mentors. We have not been there for them in the same way they've been there for us throughout their lives. The Canadian Forces report, alongside the climbingdisproportionate death toll in our long-term care facilities, has reconfirmed the ugly, indefensible reality of elder abuse and neglect in Canada. In my community, we mourn the deaths of 68 seniors from one long-termcare facility alone, Camilla Care. We must make the same unwavering commitment to older persons as they have shown to us. We must protect and uphold their human rights. We must do better.The Chair: Beforeproceeding, I just want to bring up to the members in the background that we want to keep it as simple and as parliamentary as possible in keeping it neutral. We'll now move to Mr. Barrett.Mr. Michael Barrett(LeedsGrenvilleThousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, CPC): During these trying times, the residents of LeedsGrenvilleThousand Islands and Rideau Lakes have risen to the challenge. They've made sacrifices and goneabove and beyond to make the lives of their neighbours better and to keep our communities safe. It would be impossible to list everyone who has emerged as a community hero, but I'd like to highlight a few, like Lily,an eight-year-old from Elgin who raised funds for her local food bank by building and selling squirrel picnic tables, and Louise Boardman from Spencerville who's making masks for long-term care facilities and sellingothers in support of the Breast Cancer Action centre. The Knights of Columbus in Prescott raised funds and are distributing some $27,000 in support of charitable groups throughout the region. The Knights of Columbusin Kemptville are working overtime operating the local food bank. Who can forget our top-notch health care workers like Hannah and Mary at the Brockville COVID-19 testing centre? It is the people ofLeedsGrenvilleThousand Islands and Rideau Lakes that make it so great. To everyone working to make a difference and to all of our essential workers, thank you.The Chair: Next is Mr. Anandasangaree.Mr. GaryAnandasangaree (ScarboroughRouge Park, Lib.): Mr. Chair, the Indian Act enshrined racism into Canadian law in 1876, and, through residential schools, the child welfare system, our legal system and our police, wecriminalized and tore apart indigenous peoples. The deaths of Chantel Moore and Rodney Levi and the assault on Chief Allan Adam are recent examples of systemic racism within the RCMP. Sadly, the RCMP leadershiphas failed to acknowledge this reality and its root causes. These same systems negatively impact black Canadians. Anti-black racism has resulted in more young black men being jailed, children being streamed orexcluded from schools and negative police interaction due to profiling. Black lives matter. No single Canadian is responsible for the prevalence of systemic racism; we all are. Collectively we build institutions thatdiscriminate based on race. It is now time to reimagine and rework our institutions, starting with our police, to ensure that all Canadians can achieve their truest potential.The Chair: Ms.Larouche, you have the floor.Ms.Andranne Larouche (Shefford, BQ): Thank you, Mr.Chair. June15 is World Elder Abuse Awareness Day. I want to remind members of the link between abuse and the problems of economic dependency among seniors.Improving their purchasing power means reducing the risk of them falling victim to abusive people. That's why the increase in the old age security benefit and the guaranteed income supplement must be extendedbeyond the pandemic. In three weeks, our seniors will receive their first cheque, when they should be receiving their second. A date must also be announced for the new horizons for seniors program, which helpsseveral groups develop projects to break the isolation of seniors. In closing, I would like to mention the organization Justice alternative et mdiation that during the pandemic, along with other organizations in Shefford,has set up the project Une histoire pour la tienne, which also serves to mark this day. It's a virtual meeting between young people and seniors, allowing them to exchange some inspiring life experiences. Since ageprejudice is very much present, I applaud this project, which aims to make us understand each other better and judge each other less.The Chair: We'll now continue with Mr. Sangha.Mr. Ramesh Sangha (BramptonCentre, Lib.): Mr. Chair, in the time of this terrible crisis affecting all Canadians, when we are all thinking about how best to deal with it, let's all think about the people around us. Let's show our representation not onlyto those in the sector of sanctioned workers, but also to all those Canadians who day by day stand up and make a difference. Every day I am proud of the reactions of Canadians to this crisis. I want to acknowledge andcelebrate all the contributions made by the people of Brampton Centre, all religious institutions, civil society and community organizations like Knights Table in my riding. We are all standing together to fight COVID-19.Let's continue working hard with that same spirit to get positive results out. Thank you very much.The Chair: I will proceed to Mr. Ruff.Mr. Alex Ruff (BruceGreyOwen Sound, CPC): Mr. Chair, whether graduating fromelementary school, high school, Georgian College or graduating from colleges or universities across the country, I am proud of the accomplishments of all the graduates across BruceGreyOwen Sound. I would also liketo congratulate and thank all the teachers and parents who have adapted to teaching online or from home and who have supported these graduates over the course of their academic careers. I'd like to extend specialcongratulations to Cameron Lovell, who just graduated from grade eight, as well as to Neebeesh and Neebin Elliott, originally from the Nawash unceded first nation on the Bruce Peninsula, who will be headed toMichigan State University, and to Jared Lumley from Owen Sound, who just graduated from my alma mater, the Royal Military College of Canada. The college motto of Truth, Duty, Valour is something all Canadiansshould aspire to live by. I wish all the best to these graduates on their next adventures. I and Canada cannot wait to see how their dreams and goals impact and change the world. I congratulate BruceGreyOwen Soundgraduates.The Chair: We'll now go to Mr.Cormier.Mr. Serge Cormier (AcadieBathurst, Lib.): Today I pay tribute to RichardLosier, an entrepreneur, visionary and builder who died on June9, 2020, surrounded by hisfamily. Mr.Losier is a giant in the Acadian Peninsula business community. In1968, he co-founded St.Isidore Asphalte, a company that now has more than 200employees. He also launched many other businesses overthe years. He was unifying and generous, a philanthropist who cared about young people and never missed an opportunity to improve their lives. I met Mr.Losier when I was 14years old, and I can say that he has beena positive influence in my life. Every time I met him, he gave me a lot of advice and encouragement, which I've never forgotten. Mr.Losier's legacy to his community is invaluable. His commitment remains an examplefor all of us to follow. Mr.Losier now joins his wife, Nolla. I offer my most sincere condolences to his children, Richard Jr., Ronald, Nathalie, Caroline and Stphane, and to his family and friends. Rest in peace, Mr.Losier.You will be greatly missed. Thank you for everything you've done for our region.The Chair: We will now go to Ms. Dabrusin.Ms. Julie Dabrusin (TorontoDanforth, Lib.): Hello from my community in east end Toronto.People talk about how a city the size of Toronto can be cold, but that's far from the truth in my community. I want to give a shout-out to our teachers, like Mr. Wong of Earl Grey Senior Public School, who deliveredhome-baked cookies and handwritten notes to all of his students, or Monsieur Steve, who's offering online French classes, or the teachers of Riverdale Collegiate, who paraded through our streets to celebrate ourgraduates. Our local Michael Garron Hospital put out a call for community members to sew masks and received over 60,000 masks, including those made by Lisa Tancre of Chartwell Avondale Retirement Residence.Michelle Beaton organized a front window scavenger hunt to entertain children and their families. Restaurants, even while facing adversity, have been generously donating food, like the members of the Leslieville BIA orMezes. There are so many more stories of generosity that I could share, but I'm out of time. I thank everyone who has stepped up. We all appreciate all of their hard work.The Chair: We will now go to Ms. Sahota.Ms.Jag Sahota (Calgary Skyview, CPC): Mr. Chair, on Saturday night, Calgarians, particularly those in the northeast, in my riding of Calgary Skyview, witnessed a devastating storm, the likes of which I have not seen in mylifetime. Homes, vehicles, community buildings and structures suffered significant damage due to large hail, floods and high winds. People acted quickly to seek shelter. I'm so grateful that there have been no reports ofpersonal injury or loss of life. I went around the community yesterday to survey the damage. It is extensive. My heart aches for those who have been impacted by the storm in an already incredibly difficult time, but weare resilient. We know that in the coming weeks there will be a lot of cleanup required, both to personal property and in the community. I know my constituents, and we will help one another get through this together. Iwill work hard to do everything I can to help rebuild this community.The Chair: Mr.Serr, you have the floor.Mr. Marc Serr (Nickel Belt, Lib.): Thank you, Mr.Chair. I'd like to express my sincere gratitude to the people ofWest Nippissing who organized Pride activities to celebrate the LGBTQ community in June. This week, we are also celebrating National Public Service Week. I thank the public servants for their dedication to the NickelBelt community and the Valley East and Rayside-Balfour areas.The Chair: Next is Mr. Saroya.Mr. Bob Saroya (MarkhamUnionville, CPC): Mr. Chair, when COVID-19 began spreading across Ontario, Markham, like manyother communities, was unprepared. Our front-line health care workers did not have enough personal protective equipment to do their jobs safely. When Markham residents heard about these shortages, my office wasflooded with calls from people who had PPE and wanted to donate. Since then my office has been able to deliver tens of thousands of PPE supplies to front-line health care workers and five masks to each family in need.This pandemic has shown that no matter what the challenge is, the Markham community will overcome it. Today, I would like to thank the front-line health care workers who are doing incredible work. I would also liketo thank all those who have helped in Markham's hour of need.The Chair: I understand we had a bit of a glitch there. I'm sorry. With the pause, we thought that was the end of it.  Mr.Serr, I would ask you to continue. Iunderstand you started to switch languages. Please continue. You have 30seconds.Mr. Marc Serr: Thank you. I'm switching to English now. Thank you to our nurses, doctors, pharmacists, cashiers, janitors. Thank youto various retail workers and first responders dealing with COVID-19. You keep our communities safe and healthy, and you feed us. Your dedication and sacrifice are greatly appreciated. As we start to see localbusinesses reopen, it is important for all of us to remember to follow best practices outlined by local public health. Our front-line workers deserve our respect. It is important for all of us to respect social distancing, toprotect all workers and their families. Together we can remain strong and united as we continue to face this challenge together.The Chair: Again, my apologies for skipping over there, but now we'll to to Ms.McLeod.Mrs. Cathy McLeod (KamloopsThompsonCariboo, CPC): Mr. Chair, in commemoration of Italian Heritage Month, I would like to pay tribute to the Colombo Lodge and Italian Cultural Centre in Kamloops, BritishColumbia. The Colombo Lodge was founded in 1914 and is an integral part of our community. Recently they began Colombo Cares take-home dinners with proceeds distributed to different non-profit organizations


Project Manager: Afternoon guys . It's gonna be {gap} .Marketing: Rock and roll .Project Manager: Oh . {vocalsound} {gap} 'Kay .Marketing: So do we need to re-train Mike on how to put his mic on ?Project Manager:We may do .Industrial Designer: Think sMarketing: Okay , can he get it all by himself this time ?Project Manager: I dunno , I'm feeling like a big boy .Industrial Designer: Mm . ProMarketing: {gap}Industrial Designer:Probably not , 'cause he's 'S been listening to {gap} too much .Marketing: So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: He's getting retarded . Yay .Marketing: I believe I can fly .User Interface: Alright well we got someexciting stuff for you guys .Industrial Designer: Or not .User Interface: Or not . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Just what I needed was something exciting . Remember , I'm an old man .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}Project Manager: 'Kay , ready to go ?User Interface: All ready .Project Manager: 'Kay so we've got our conceptual design meeting .Industrial Designer: Apparently I'm old as well .ProjectManager: Hopefully we've all got exciting ideas now .Marketing: Thirty's really young , eh ?User Interface: {vocalsound} We do .Project Manager: Uh k exciting ideas . 'Kay so here's our agenda our agenda .UmIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I'm gonna open . I'm gonna talk for a bit about what we're gonna do . I'm gonna take some notes . We're gonna all do a presentation , and then hopefully we'regonna make some decisions now . {vocalsound} Yep . {vocalsound} Well when I say hopefully , we have to . SoUser Interface: Alright .Project Manager: I'm gonna let you guys talk before we make decisions . And doesanyone really want to go first ?User Interface: I guess I'll go first .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: You p two ?User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: What's {disfmarker}User Interface: Component ,I think . Yeah .Project Manager: Components design .User Interface: Yep that's it .Industrial Designer: Presented by name . {vocalsound}User Interface: My name is {vocalsound} .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yourname is name ?Marketing: Jose he man is .User Interface: My name is name .Project Manager: Huh hi name .Industrial Designer: My name is Inigo Montoya .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Youkilled my father .User Interface: {vocalsound} Sorry I did this in a bit of a rush .Industrial Designer: Prepare to die . {vocalsound}Marketing: N name .Project Manager: Right . {vocalsound}User Interface: So so here'sa look inside your really old-looking remote control . Um you've got {vocalsound} a printed {vocalsound} a printed uh circuit board here , and you've got all these buttons which kinda press down little rubber{vocalsound} nubbies into these little holes that activate {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: We've all broke a remote control ri um s yeah . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah we've all broken aremote control .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I've {disfmarker}User Interface: So you've also got um {disfmarker} you've got your chip here , your batteries here , and some sortaelectronics . Um {disfmarker}Marketing: I just love you tech guys , huh .Industrial Designer: Yeah there's a thingy and a dingy and {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} You press this and it does thUserInterface: Well {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah y do jabber {vocalsound}User Interface: so you've got {disfmarker} here's here's a transistor , and this amplifies your signal ,IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}User Interface: um you've got the L_E_D_ here on the end of the uh uh on the end of the printed circuit board . Um you've got a couple diodes here for I don't know who and whatnot{vocalsound} .Project Manager: {vocalsound} I dunno who and whatnot .User Interface: So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} exactly .Industrial Designer: Nah .User Interface: So um we've got a {disfmarker} i in this in thisuh drawing he uh in this example here , this is a eighteen pin um uh chip {vocalsound} I dunno .Marketing: P Yeah .User Interface: Uh it's two double A_ batteries .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Thisis pretty standard remote . So here are options for our power sources . You can use a basic battery , which we've already discussed , um {vocalsound} th our tech department also said we have the option of doing somekind of hand dynamo where maybe you crank it or something like that .Project Manager: {vocalsound} 'Kay . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I wanna change that {vocalsound} .User Interface: I don'tknow if that's really {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I I gotta I gotta flashlight , and uh {disfmarker}User Interface: I don't know we got some qu crazy guys down there in that department so {vocalsound}{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: You shake it .Marketing: yeah but it's interesting 'cause you shake it like this {vocalsound} .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Like this {vocalsound} .User Interface: So that's the next bullet is the um the kinetic provision of energy ,Marketing: And that's on the camera {vocalsound} .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}User Interface: so it's like that flashlight where you have to shake it {vocalsound} .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: 'Kay .User Interface: Uh we've got solar cells , which I don't think is a verygood idea because um you could not use your remote at night {vocalsound} which doesn't make a lot of sense .Project Manager: Mm 'kay .User Interface: And finally we've got our cradle o our power cradle idea.Project Manager: Okay so we basically have battery versus cradle here ?User Interface: M battery versus cradle I think is {disfmarker} yeah .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: I like the kinetic .ProjectManager: So we have battery versus cradle {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing: I g I I figured you would . Yes . {vocalsound} Yeah .User Interface: It could be fun {vocalsound} .Project Manager: It's actually a novelthing because you could sell it a as a novelty , just to be actually serious for a minute here ,User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: you could {disfmarker}User Interface: Well it is it is more uh {disfmarker} I mean it ismore eco-friendly than the than the cradle 'cause you're still using power off the grid with the cradle . So umProject Manager: Mm . Hmm .User Interface: our case design . We have uh choices in materials and choicesin the general shapes that we can do . Our material choices are a plastic latex um ty or plastic , a rubber latex type thing , uh wood , or titanium . If we go with titanium we're gonna be uh limited in the amount ofshapes we can do because it's tough to shape the titanium , and uh {disfmarker} Yeah persProject Manager: Wood wood would ge would give us a little bit of a marketing niche , wouldn't it .User Interface: I think woodi {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} It it it {disfmarker}Project Manager: Nah .User Interface: I I can't see anybody wanting to use a wooden remote , it's just anti-technology really , you know .Marketing: Uh.Project Manager: Okay . Hmm .Marketing: Uh uh to me in a marketing sense it's not it's not relative . We can we can o we can uh accentuate whatever {disfmarker} whatever product you put in there we can find away to accentuate it .User Interface: Right .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: And what we may be able to do , and I think this might be the best option is to combine some {disfmarker} a couple of these . Um myrecommendation personally would be to do some kind of a plastic inner shell with a like a rubber outer shell , to make it um to mak uh like a thick plastic inner shell and a t um kind of a {disfmarker} to have that rubberouter shell to make it more durable , and also maybe i I think it feels a little better than the plastic .Project Manager: 'Kay . Do you get a good grip on the rubber ? Yeah okay . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah um{disfmarker}Marketing: And if you make it from that super rubber , when you drop it on the floor it can bounce right back up in your hand .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: You don't even need to lean down to get it.User Interface: The advantages of working with plastic and rubber is {disfmarker} w we we'll have a lot more um options just in terms of shapeIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}UserInterface: because you can extrude plastic in basically any shape you want . So um {disfmarker} and then we can cover you know the breakable bits with rubber yeah so um {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay .UserInterface: But basically these are {vocalsound} curved and double-curved I I believe that the tech department , in their um {vocalsound} in their {vocalsound} message to me , that they were referring to the numberof th curves in the bottom . I have no idea exactly what they're talking about ,Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: but that's what they told me , {vocalsound} uncurved , flat , curved , or double-curved .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}User Interface: I would guess this like this pen would be kinda like a double-curved , where it's curved on m m multiple axes , right ? I think curved means just curved in one axis anddouble-curved is curved in two axesProject Manager: Okay .User Interface: or surfaces . I have no idea .Project Manager: I think it might mean something like that sorta shape because a double curve rather than a{disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm yeah that's {disfmarker} yeah that's what I see .Project Manager: yeah that's what {gap} .User Interface: Oh okay oh like a wave , okay .Marketing: Yeah that's what I see also .UserInterface: Alright that makes sense okay . Um okay , with the interface we have the following options , we can u we can use push buttons , we can use a scroll wheel with an integrated push button , and L_C_D_ display,Marketing: Ooh .User Interface: or multiple scrolling wheels . Um so these are all options that the user interface guy can uh {disfmarker} has at his disposal to put together a user interface .Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: For electronics , we have these very technical um {vocalsound} descriptions here . A simple chip , which is the least expensive , but I have no numbers to give you ,Project Manager: {vocalsound}UserInterface: a regular chip , which is {vocalsound} like the medium porridge {disfmarker} the {vocalsound} medium expense uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} D do we have actually any concept of whatthe difference is between a simple chip and an advanced chip ?User Interface: Yes the difference is , with a simple chip {disfmarker} a simple chip will operate {disfmarker} oh why doesn't this scroll up ? Previousprevious , okay . A simple chip is required to operate push buttons .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Um {vocalsound} an advanced chip is required to to operate um the L_C_D_ display , and it didn't sayspecifically , but I I have a hunch that a regular chip is gonna be the scroll wheel and the multiple scroll wheels .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: So but yeah .Project Manager: Yeah that makes sense . Sopresentation from {disfmarker} I guess design would go best . Next .User Interface: That's the end of my presentation .Project Manager: Technical functions or interface concept ?User Interface: I think{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Oh interface concept .Project Manager: Yeah that's it .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Very long presentation . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yes , but it has your name on it .UserInterface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well that doesn't bo bode well for it for it tats as well . Um so , somehow that thing's too big , butum {disfmarker} okay um our uh manufacturing division wanted the speech recognition . They say they could put it to work but um we don't think so .User Interface: No . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: No . It it it{disfmarker} you'll be you know be affected by the by the other speech and {disfmarker}User Interface: If the T_V_ is working , yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: That's just {disfmarker} I mean it'll{disfmarker} if somebody says up in the middle of a television show , it's gonna change the channel .Industrial Designer: Yeah and and fighting for the remote would not be fun anymore ,User Interface: So{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: and I think that's one of the things we wanna keep .Project Manager: But what if you actually had to press a button to make it recognize ? So if you pressed it and went , up ?IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound} That kinda would r dUser Interface: Well then why don't you just press the up button ?Project Manager: Man yeah .Industrial Designer: yeah . That would kind of lose it .Project Manager: But ifit's just one thing with a button that you can just go {disfmarker} Up .User Interface: Even still there's gonna be interf th there's there still will be interference from the T_V_ .Marketing: That's right .Project Manager:{vocalsound} Yeah , okay .User Interface: It might not be it might not be completely confusing , but I think you'll still y it's still {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: I don't think it's practical at all . Ithink it's a bad idea frankly .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: Yeah so um taking that away , our uh {disfmarker} the the the rubber but rubber buttons are the more reliable {disfmarker}Project Manager:You guys know your stuff .Industrial Designer: it's the the ones that would al would allow us to to market our product as being you know less prone to damage and more resistant to things like spillage of liquids over itor you know mistreat misuses as it happens to remote controls . Um as for the point that we making about losing it . Well , we wanna small r remote control one side because uh we want it to be cool and uh designed ,but um apparently um market shows that bigger s bigger um remotes get less lost ,User Interface: That I would believe .Industrial Designer: about {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Mm .UserInterface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: But um yeah I think we we need to compromise between those two and somehow we'll do that . Somehow . Um so {vocalsound} the the {disfmarker} what I would proposeis something more or less in the uh direction of what is to yo the right of that slide uh but without {disfmarker} with a l a less complicated um design , so the numbers , the volume control , and channel control , andteletext access . Uh the volume and channel control can just become those the the four button array as in if it was a round dial .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: And um if you just think about it as the oneto the right but with the numbers and the four buttons plus maybe a centre one with teletext .Project Manager: So we're suggesting doing a sorta scroll wheel thing for the volume ?Industrial Designer: Ye no it'snotUser Interface: That's not a scroll wheel .Industrial Designer: i i it's just four buttons that are on a cross ,Project Manager: Nah . Oh okay okay . I see .Industrial Designer: so that you ba basically can control all ofthe important tasks from that {gap} alone .User Interface: Right .Project Manager: Uh , okay .User Interface: Instead of play , stop , rewind , and fast forward there , that's up , down , louder , and quieter .ProjectManager: Okay .Industrial Designer: Yeah um yeah so I think we w we go for something mid-sized , so something looks goodMarketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and uh is not too prone to get lost . That be it.Project Manager: 'Kay . So on to {disfmarker} Y functional requirements or trend watching ?Marketing: I dunno .User Interface: Trend watching has a later date there .Marketing: Trend watching I guess . Trendwatching I believe .Project Manager: {gap} forty six nineteen fifty seven . Yep .Marketing: See what it looks like . It's been so long .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {gap} .Marketing:Well {vocalsound} I don't know what to say . When I s when I see the {disfmarker} when I see the product I I I I don't wanna buy it . I see so many of 'em out there . There's nothing about that product that makes mewanna choose that product over other products that are out there .User Interface: Are you talking about the picture ? That's not our that's not our b design ,Marketing: Yeah yeah .User Interface: that's just a{disfmarker} that's just something he a a graphic he used to show you the layout of what the layout of the buttons might be like .Marketing: Okay . Okay . Okay 'cause 'cause right now I don't have too much to sayabout how to market this product because we don't have a product to market yet .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: And uh from from talking to Mike is that we have we have uh we can market a more expensiveproduct now . That's what I understand so ,Project Manager: Upper management said yes .Marketing: hello .Project Manager: Uh e excuse that , that's a bit of spam .Marketing: And and so {disfmarker} yeah I'm a I'ma little bit stuck right now in that what uh w what is it that I'm gonna market ? Uh without special or increased marketable features I don't believe the product has a consumer demand . Uh I like the idea of of the scrollmakin {vocalsound} there are so many people making these products at this price right now . What are we gonna do to make this one special and unique ?User Interface: What's special and unique about a scroll?Marketing: Uh {vocalsound} well I don't {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's cool .Marketing: yeah it's {disfmarker} I I just see it as different . I don't say it's specially mm {disfmarker} I don't say it's special . Uh I saythat it's different I {disfmarker} what I'm looking for as marketing is m give me something different . I give me a lower price , give me a higher price , give me some new technology , don't give me the same thing thateverybody else is putting out there on the shelf it's f at the same price . I need something to market about this thing . We're we're a new firm .Project Manager: I'd I'd say though that we {disfmarker} if we did makethe decision to go with the cradle though , the then we have that as well ,Marketing: What i {vocalsound} if when when we have {disfmarker}Project Manager: but wi with a similar {disfmarker}Marketing: yeah whenwe when we have something like the cradle or or something give that's {disfmarker} as as a marketing standard {disfmarker} I need something to market , to make this product unique .User Interface: Well right Ithink the two big th points that we have so far are the {disfmarker} having the cradle and also having uh the um the actual design of the uh case itself having like this like rubber shell maybe with a plastic interior,Marketing: Yep .User Interface: having it look really nice um and also be really durable .Marketing: Mm 'kay . Just remember when I made up this report I didn't have the information that we're discussing here .ProjectManager: Mm . Course .User Interface: Right yeah . Yeah .Marketing: And and so so uh yeah when we have a cradle , when we have some kind of design , so what I'm saying is , from my perspective , I don't have aproduct to market right now . Um uh my personal preference is that we make some adjustment in the cost , either lower or develop an integrated new technol technology . That's that is the next step , there'stechnology and then there is technology , which we're moving into the next phase .Project Manager: Yeah 'cause that's {gap} .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: And so uh we're gonna have some newtechnology to enhance the marketability . Yeah uh again I'm not sold on the product because we don't have a product in my opinion yet .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: So I need a product .Project Manager: Mm 'kay.User Interface: Well let's get a product then .Marketing: I need a product to market . And I just {disfmarker} whatever product you guys put together , we'll find a way to market it . Tha that I'm not concerned with.Project Manager: So now {disfmarker}Marketing: If you if you give me {disfmarker} if you give me a cut-out of what everybody else has then I need to I need to find a lower cost .Project Manager: So our big{vocalsound} questions here really are cradle or not cradle ? Do we go basic or do we go for features ? Uh d does anyone really wanna do anything with the scroll wheel or should we ditch that off-hand first ?UserInterface: Well my question is what would the scroll wheel do ? Function-wise , what does that do that {disfmarker}Project Manager: Oh but that was in your presentation {vocalsound} so wh what would you imagine itdoing ?Marketing: Yeah wh wh what's the {vocalsound} whUser Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah . Well it's it's just another way to do the exact same thing that the buttons do .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Mm