Marketing: Just put it on the deskt {gap} desktop .Project Manager: No on the desktop you'll find you should find that there's a project documents link . A well actually just there .Marketing: Project documents ,ProjectManager: Yeah . That's it .Marketing: yeah .Project Manager: If you dump it in there .Marketing: What's your username ?Project Manager: Your username .Marketing: What's your username and password ? Mm-hmm .Sorry .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Okay . There we go .Project Manager: Excellent . Right . Hopefully that's us ready to uh to go . So . Functional design meeting . We'll have to flesh out some of the uh stuff .Um we'll start with the minutes of the last meeting . Not a lot thankfully to say . We introduced ourselves , discussed the possibility of a macro facility , interac interacting the T_V_ a bit more , um mentioning ofbar-code , joystick for user manipulation , um and ergonomics of the remote control as well . Um it's come to my attention the following . Teletext has become outdated due to the populat popularity of the internet .Remote control should only be used for the T_V_ . Um due for uh time to market and possibly also cost issues . Um also key is the corporate image should stay recognisable , um f uh your colour and slogan of course isdown at the bottom there . Um . Now . Just to say quickly uh I would have thought that only being used for a television the macro facility may now not be required .User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: Um or at l itsfunctionality would have been of limited use . So to the point in my opinion anyway that it might not be worth pursuing . Um if anybody disagrees we can uh definitely say so . Um and hopefully we'll just crack on andwe'll get everything going . Um I'd like to if possible hear from our Marketing Expert first , to help us gain an idea of where we're going to go .Marketing: 'Kay .Project Manager: So um I'll just load up your presentationfrom here if you want .Marketing: Sure . Um , sh would you like to {vocalsound} I'll just do it from here .Project Manager: Yep . Sorry . Uh . Is yours the {disfmarker}Marketing: Um , try second one maybe . Try it ,yeah maybe .Project Manager: Oh sorry . Okay , right .Marketing: Yeah . Okay . Oh , I thought I put in my last name , I guess not , but {gap} .Project Manager: Uh if you {disfmarker} that's all right . If you{disfmarker} do you want me to just cycle through it for you or ?Marketing: Okay . {vocalsound} Oh yeah , that'd be fine , that'd be great .Project Manager: Yeah ?Marketing: Okay . Functional requirement by meEbenezer . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Okay , so um we did some research , we asked one hundred people their opinions on remote controls . We asked some uh open ended questions , just , whatare your opinions on the remote control , got a lot of re responses , and we asked some very specific questions , and we got a lot of good feedback . Please bear in mind this is only a hundred people , so even when thegroups are divided into fifteen to twenty five , twenty five to thirty five , there's only maybe ten people {vocalsound} fifteen people in each group .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Okay . {vocalsound} So we got{disfmarker} some the bad stuff we got , remotes are often lost . I often lose my remote control , the back of the couch , some place , and even if it's not lost permanently , it takes me a few minutes to find it .{vocalsound} Most buttons are not used any more , like you said , teletext is outdated now . I remember trying to load a D_V_D_ player recently , and there were so many buttons , it took me I don't know maybe tenminutes to to go through each button , 'cause you have to press the shift button to access the yellow buttons , you know there's just a lot of stuff that no one really uses . And if they do , not very often . Takes too longto master the remote control . I've seen some remote controls that are big , they have a lot of buttons , you have to hold down more than one key at one time to do something , they're just not great to use . We justgot a lot of bad complaints about remote controls , people do not like remote controls . Some of the good stuff we got . Between the age of uh fifteen and twenty five , most people would be willing to pay extra for voicerecognition software . Now don't get excited yet , I've got more to say on that . Most people'd be willing to pay for that um most people want remote controls to be pretty , they want it to be fancy , th they they want itto be different , everybody has a white remote control with black buttons , and a red button and a green button , not everybody wants that . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Finally , my opinion .Project Manager: Yep.Marketing: The voice recognition thing is cool . And uh voice recognition , the software , open source software exist already . It's a bit sketchy at some times , uh , you're not gonna get good always accurate results ,but for a very fixed number of words , you know you have , how many different words can you have for a remote control , up , down , left , right , channel five , channel seven , you know , how many , you can't havethat many words . For a fixed vocabulary it works quite well . I'm pretty sure people would buy it . But after a while people may wanna return it , because {vocalsound} if you have to to say som I mean most people usea remote control for switching to channels , and they say they do that about ninety eight percent of the time . Using the remote control , ninety eight percent of the time for changing channels , and that's for flickeringthrough channels . So if you have to say up , up , up , up , if you have to do that all the time , then people might get a bit fed up with that and they may return it . {vocalsound} However , {vocalsound} oh , becausethe voice recognition software exists already , there's no need to spend money on research and development , but this does mean the need for microphones in the in the remote control , which is an unusual feature inmy opinion . But if we do have the voice recognition thing , there's a lot of stuff that you can uh get rid of . See , you could {disfmarker} there're two options . Either you have voice recognition by itself , which I think isa bit impractical for like night time if you wanna be watching television and you wanna be quiet , or I don't know you have a visitor coming round and the remote's only trained for you , it's a bit impractical to have justvoice recognition by itself . So you can have voice recognition and a regular remote . But imagine you got rid of the regular remote part , then you can design the remote to look any way you want it to look , becausethere are no restrictions on physical size , or shape , it it could be as fancy as you want it to be , you know , it could be like a lollipop or something like that , something weird like that . As long as the voice recognitionstuff works , that's that's fine .Project Manager: Okay , yep .Marketing: So we have the three birds , we have the design , that {vocalsound} we have the the fancy bit , right , the voice recognition's fancy , it's cool , it'sdifferent , it's radical , so , and then we have an extra bit I don't remember {vocalsound} so I'm pretty sure people will buy the remote , but is it practical to have a voice recognition system in a remote control , I thinkis a big question . Um , will people will people be willing to wait for the the period that it'll take to train the remote , 'cause I think it will the remote will uh get better over time with the same user user , but for the firstweek or for the first two weeks are you willing to wait , are you willing to have a bad remote control . {vocalsound} And uh what if you have visitors come round , they stay the night , they wanna use the T_V_ , theycan't use the remote because they speak differently to you . Um , how do you account for regional accents and stuff like that . Uh , will people return the remote control , {vocalsound} I think a lot of young people willbuy the remote control , if they have the money , you know , so ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm . If you could uhMarketing: do our audience have the money , but would they return it after a while because it's not as fastas pressing a button , it's not a practical . So . These are things I think we should consider .Project Manager: sorMarketing: I think it's cool ,Project Manager: if you could speed it up a bit , yeah . If you could uh speed itup a bit please , yeah .Marketing: I'm sorry ? Sure .Project Manager: Sorry .Marketing: I'm about to end , yeah .Project Manager: Cool .Marketing: I think it's cool but there are definitely some considerations .ProjectManager: Okay . Excellent .Marketing: So , yeah .Project Manager: Right . Um . Hear from the {vocalsound} User Interface Designer now I think might be an idea .User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: Um , you'vegot your presentation now ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} How did {disfmarker} where did {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah , it's in the it's in the folderProject Manager: is it on the {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: where did you get all your in information {gap} ?User Interface: yeah .Project Manager: is it ? Okay .Marketing: There was uh a website , uh ,Industrial Designer: Oh .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Technicalfunctions ?Marketing: right here .Industrial Designer: Ah , okay .User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: No . Yeah . Okay .User Interface: Okay , this is a {vocalsound} brief run through of the um of the technicalfunctions of the remote . As um is uh the the the presentation is uh already slightly obsolete because I {vocalsound} had in mind something that would uh be i be aimed at controlling multiple devices but uh there's stillstuff of relevance , soProject Manager: Okay .User Interface: press on . I've looked at {vocalsound} looked at a num {vocalsound} uh couple of other uh remote control models just for an idea of basic design principles. Um and wasn't really satisfied by what I saw I have to say so this is more sort of springboard for uh how these could be improved on . {vocalsound} Um um basically the job of the device is to send commands to anappliance , in this case the television set . Um to save you getting off your backside . Um and there's two main trends in th in the sort of design practice . On the one hand {disfmarker} and this uh this particularlyrelates to its sort of earliest models where with you know i so so many buttons on it so about the size of the television set . Um giving you every possible function that the that the device has , the remote controlcontrols . And most of these functions are not going to be used , it creates a rather user unfriendly interface . And on the other hand there's a user focused approach that pares things down to just what {vocalsound}what is most likely to get used . Um {vocalsound} With uh {disfmarker} a and a and of course there is a certain amount of sort of loss of function here obviously , but mostly that's relatively peripheral functions . Andso you go for something that's fairly intuitive to use , and um well f the for the most part for T_V_ remote it's uh tha that would be channel control and volume . Um and if you {vocalsound} if you if you are wanting toincorporate uh control of a D_V_ {vocalsound} D_V_D_ or uh {vocalsound} V_C_R_ presumably into that then there's a play , pause , stop , rewind , fast-forward , record , so forth . Um . My own view is that we shoulddefinitely be going for a user focused design . Um but uh the pro {vocalsound} I think the problem with a lot of the sort of user focused designs that are about is that they sort of make assumptions in advance aboutwhat uh what a given user's going to uh want mo want to do from {vocalsound} want it to do most . So , something that's uh {vocalsound} something that is more programmable , that uh perh perhaps has the fullrange of functions available to it but you can then specify yourself what you're most likely to want . Um so that those are then immediately {vocalsound} accessible through fairly minimal number of controls , um I likedEbenezer's idea of including a joystick in that and uh possibly a sort of fairly minimal number of sort of function buttons , and have a disp {vocalsound} you then have some sort of basic display on it so that if you're umsort of cha changing from different modes for the device it'll tell you just exactly what uh you know each direction of the uh of the um joystick's {vocalsound} going to do or wha or what each function button's going todo . Um , this is actually {gap} a again slightly taking inspiration off of uh games controllers , you know the Playstation control where you have four basic function buttonsMarketing: Mm .User Interface: that are justmarked with um distinctive uh geometrical shapes but the {vocalsound} and then dependent on what you're doing with it what game and so on um those uh those functions are then sort of further specified . And so it'staking taking the lead from that . Um .Project Manager: Okay . Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound} That's it .Project Manager: Right . Um , if we could hear from our Industrial engineer , or Designer .IndustrialDesigner: Yeah . Uh , I was still working on stuff , I hadn't got it finished . Um , {vocalsound} alright . Click to save in {disfmarker} where do I have to save it ?Project Manager: If you look on the desktop you'll findthat there's a link to the project folder , or project documents . If you save it in there we can open it up from here .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Um , what I've done with it , I'm sorry . Shit . Um {vocalsound}{disfmarker}Project Manager: Are you finding it okay or ?Industrial Designer: I'm just {gap} closing it now . {gap} where I've saved it .Marketing: Well like if you go to one , uh whichever one you were working{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {gap} that's it there ,Marketing: yeah ,Industrial Designer: yeah .Marketing: and you just click file save as .Industrial Designer: Oh right . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: Uh , right I'm responsible for working design , uh , this is basically the inside going on of the the uh remote control . So we have the energy source , we have the user interface , this this is what I'veseen . Uh the sender will push the button , the chip will respond , uh and then the dig digital signal is sent to the T_V_ . So uh uh , if you go to next slide , you'll see you'll see uh what do we need on the user interface .Do we need uh many buttons , or do we need l many light bulbs that could be easier to uh to realise which appliances are on or not . Um , {vocalsound} , or would that take too much power , would we need more umcomponents in there to supply the power ? Um , the joystick is another thing , if we were gonna add that , um , there'd be more components to deal with that .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Um{vocalsound} , so uh we need to {disfmarker} I dunno exactly what {disfmarker} That's the design of the the the layout of the uh electronic design , um obviously there'll be more details once we've decided what we'reputting on the user interface .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: So , that'll be decided , I guess . {vocalsound} Uh , and the next slide . Oh , yeah {disfmarker} Um , if you go to the next slide then .ProjectManager: Oh . Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I just used the {vocalsound} it was a mess , uh I was just putting adding it together at the end there . Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Ah , don'tworry about it at all mate . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Uh so you have the energy source obviously connected to the chip , and the user interface obviously contains everything . You have the switch turn it on ,infrared bulb , uh will contact the T_V_ and will have whatever device or D_V_D_ player , the bulb will turn on to say it's on . Uh , so do we need on the control uh different buttons to decide , or different light bulbs ,would it be easier ? Um , I dunno what we should decide on that .Project Manager: Okay . Well . Oh sorry , I'm I'm interrupting you . Are you {disfmarker} is it {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: No , it's finished , yeah.Project Manager: yeah ? Okay . Right . Um , {vocalsound} right we can probably skip that for now . So , we've had some stuff put forward , um along with the new user requirements , um we've had a lot of kind ofinput I'd say so far . Um I hear what the Marketing Expert's saying about {vocalsound} um voice activated control . However I've got a couple of worries about that . {vocalsound} The power required , um and theability to the cost , it seems like for uh an embedded system , this could cause us issues .Industrial Designer: Cost . Mm .Project Manager: Um for example you see that there's fairly robust services on uh computers viauh via voice , I_B_M_ do um drag and dictate , but these require a lot of memoryMarketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: and usually um state quite advanced processor requirements . Um voice activation could be aninteresting idea but I think that our Ind Industrial Designer would probably upon some research say that it's maybe not feasible .Marketing: 'Kay .Project Manager: Um that's just my view right now ,User Interface: Mm. {vocalsound}Project Manager: however the idea of a joystick and then maybe an L_C_D_ which has been kind of put forward so far , it's almost like having a small T_ not T_V_ to say , but if you can control almost allof the functionality from the display , I don't know how much power an L_C_D_ would take , but it might be quite low ?Marketing: Mm . I uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: L_C_D_ on the remote just telling youwhat's on , or {vocalsound} uh , interactive L_C_D_ or {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well literally um if you can imagine the display maybe slightly larger than um those on a {vocalsound} a mobile phone ,UserInterface: Mm .Project Manager: something where you can read an an um fair amount of information , traverse maybe quite a few menus , if we maybe used mobile phones as a good example , they usually incorporatethey have the keypad , and then evr all the other functionality is usually associated inside by traversing around .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: That could be one possibility . Um and then we could have likesay the common buttons as you say , volume control , changing channels {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm . {gap} I I was thinking that the remote {vocalsound} the um {vocalsound} sort of default functions for thejoystick would be up and down for uh volume , left and right for channels .Project Manager: We {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Do you think that people will get mixed up , like , they'll be looking at this screen andthat screen and then , you know , trying to get everything working , would it be a bit confusing ?User Interface: Um I think probably for the first couple of hours of using itIndustrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: umbut you know muscle memory's a wonderful thing , um . And I think {vocalsound} and I think that size of uh display was about what I had in mind .Marketing: Mm .User Interface: Um though I mean I w I would saythat uh we could probably probably be required to um mo most of the mobile phone displays you see these days are colour but we should probably try to stick to black and white .Project Manager: {vocalsound} I wouldagree with you .User Interface: Si si simply to keep m keep the unit cost down . Um I mean colour could be a sort of subsequent development but uh you know cost a bit of extra money f w w w w w once everyone's gotthe first , you know , oh colour's out , we'll have to replace it won't we .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}User Interface: It does nothing extra .Project Manager: That would be my feeling as well , I think wecould possibly create quite a useful user interface . Um now I mean I don't {disfmarker}Marketing: Sure but the idea of a remote with a menu or {disfmarker} and a joystick I think like I h if I was in the habit of buyingremote controls then I would want one ,Project Manager: sorry , go for it .Marketing: but I think we don't have a specific audience , you know , like what is our target audience , what niche are {disfmarker} niche arewe trying to market and corner . You know , you know what I'm saying , like , for whom is this intended ? Everybody ?Project Manager: {vocalsound} I think it could probably be aimed at most people who've used amobile . And that might be just another way of saying try to target most people .Marketing: Most people , yeah .User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: Um , if we are if we were to follow that avenue , we might be s youknow um we're kind of almost relying on their experience with a mobile phone I suppose . But that does cover a very large section of the people out there .Marketing: Mm-hmm . Sure . I think that's fair {vocalsound}yeah .User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: Um , I mean I imagine as well that the actual L_C_D_ and maybe to a certain extent the joystick as well would be for the additional functionality . Which maybe doesn't getused as often , maybe it makes it easy for them to figure out how to um change the channels as in the frequencies and such for reprogramming it .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Um and you can still have the


Professor D: OK .PhD A: Mike . Mike - one ?PhD B: Ah .Professor D: We 're on ? Yes , please . I mean , we 're testing noise robustness but let 's not get silly . OK , so , uh , you 've got some , uh , Xerox things to passout ?PhD A: Yeah ,Professor D: That are {disfmarker}PhD A: um .Professor D: Yeah .PhD A: Yeah . Yeah , I 'm sorry for the table , but as it grows in size , uh , it .Professor D: Uh , so for th the last column we use ourimagination . OK .PhD B: Ah , yeah .Professor D: Ah .PhD A: Uh , yeah .PhD B: Uh , do you want @ @ .Professor D: This one 's nice , though . This has nice big font .PhD A: Yeah .Grad C: Let 's see . Yeah . Chop!Professor D: Yeah .PhD A: SoProfessor D: When you get older you have these different perspectives . I mean , lowering the word hour rate is fine , but having big font !PhD A: Next time we will put colors or something.Professor D: That 's what 's {disfmarker}PhD A: Uh .Professor D: Yeah . It 's mostly big font . OK .PhD A: OK , s so there is kind of summary of what has been done {disfmarker}Professor D: Uh {disfmarker} Go ahead.PhD A: It 's this . Summary of experiments since , well , since last weekProfessor D: Oh . OK .PhD A: and also since the {disfmarker} we 've started to run {disfmarker} work on this . Um . {pause} So since last weekwe 've started to fill the column with um {vocalsound} uh features w with nets trained on PLP with on - line normalization but with delta also , because the column was not completely {disfmarker}Professor D: Mm -hmm . Mm - hmm . PhD A: well , it 's still not completely filled ,Professor D: PhD A: but {pause} we have more results to compare with network using without PLP and {pause} finally , hhh , {comment} um {pause}ehhh {comment} PL - uh delta seems very important . Uh {pause} I don't know . If you take um , let 's say , anyway Aurora - two - B , so , the next {disfmarker} t the second , uh , part of the table ,Professor D: Mm -hmm .PhD A: uh {pause} when we use the large training set using French , Spanish , and English , you have one hundred and six without delta and eighty - nine with the delta .Professor D: a And again all of thesenumbers are with a hundred percent being , uh , the baseline performance ,PhD A: Yeah , on the baseline , yeah . So {disfmarker}Professor D: but with a mel cepstra system going straight into the HTK ?PhD A: Yeah .Yeah . So now we see that the gap between the different training set is much {pause} uh uh much smallerProfessor D: Yes .PhD A: um {disfmarker}Grad C: It 's out of the way .PhD A: But , actually , um , for Englishtraining on TIMIT is still better than the other languages . And  Mmm , {pause} Yeah . And f also for Italian , actually . If you take the second set of experiment for Italian , so , the mismatched condition ,Professor D:Mm - hmm .PhD A: um {pause} when we use the training on TIMIT so , it 's multi - English , we have a ninety - one number ,Professor D: Mm - hmm .PhD A: and training with other languages is a little bit worse.Professor D: Um {disfmarker} Oh , I see . Down near the bottom of this sheet .PhD A: So ,Professor D: Uh , {comment} {pause} yes .PhD A: yeah .Professor D: OK .PhD A: And , yeah , and here the gap is still moreimportant between using delta and not using delta . If y if I take the training s the large training set , it 's {disfmarker} we have one hundred and seventy - two ,Professor D: Yes .PhD A: and one hundred and four whenwe use delta .Professor D: Yeah .PhD A: Uh . {pause} Even if the contexts used is quite the same ,Professor D: Mm - hmm .PhD A: because without delta we use seventeenths {disfmarker} seventeen frames . Uh .Yeah , um , so the second point is that we have no single cross - language experiments , uh , that we did not have last week . Uh , so this is training the net on French only , or on English only , and testing on Italian.Professor D: Mm - hmm .PhD A: And training the net on French only and Spanish only and testing on , uh TI - digits .Professor D: Mm - hmm .PhD A: And , fff {comment} um , yeah . What we see is that these nets arenot as good , except for the multi - English , which is always one of the best . Yeah , then we started to work on a large dat database containing , uh , sentences from the French , from the Spanish , from the TIMIT ,from SPINE , uh from {comment} uh English digits , and from Italian digits . So this is the {disfmarker} another line {disfmarker} another set of lines in the table . Uh , @ @ with SPINEProfessor D: Ah , yes . Mm -hmm .PhD A: and {pause} uh , actually we did this before knowing the result of all the data , uh , so we have to to redo the uh {disfmarker} the experiment training the net with , uh PLP , but with delta . ButProfessorD: Mm - hmm .PhD A: um this {disfmarker} this net performed quite well . Well , it 's {disfmarker} it 's better than the net using French , Spanish , and English only . Uh . So , uh , yeah . We have also started featurecombination experiments . Uh many experiments using features and net outputs together . And this is {disfmarker} The results are on the other document . Uh , we can discuss this after , perhaps {disfmarker} well ,just , @ @ . Yeah , so basically there are four {disfmarker} four kind of systems . The first one , yeah , is combining , um , two feature streams , uh using {disfmarker} and each feature stream has its own MPL . So it 'sthe {disfmarker} kind of similar to the tandem that was proposed for the first . The multi - stream tandem for the first proposal . The second is using features and KLT transformed MLP outputs . And the third one is to uuse a single KLT trans transform features as well as MLP outputs . Um , yeah . Mmm . You know you can {disfmarker} you can comment these results ,PhD B: Yes , I can s I would like to say that , for example , um ,mmm , if we doesn't use the delta - delta , uh we have an improve when we use s some combination . But whenPhD A: Yeah , we ju just to be clear , the numbers here are uh recognition accuracy .PhD B: w Yeah , this{disfmarker} Yeah , this number recognition accPhD A: So it 's not the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Again we switch to another {disfmarker}PhD B: Yes , and the baseline {disfmarker} the baseline have {disfmarker} iis eighty - two .Professor D: Baseline is eighty - two .PhD B: YeahPhD A: So it 's experiment only on the Italian mismatched for the moment for this .Professor D: Uh , this is Italian mismatched .PhD A: Um .PhD B: Yeah, by the moment .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor D: OK .PhD B: And first in the experiment - one I {disfmarker} I do {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I use different MLP ,Professor D: Mm - hmm .PhD B: and is obviouslythat the multi - English MLP is the better . Um . for the ne {disfmarker} rest of experiment I use multi - English , only multi - English . And I try to combine different type of feature , but the result is that the MSG - threefeature doesn't work for the Italian database because never help to increase the accuracy .PhD A: Yeah , eh , actually , if w we look at the table , the huge table , um , we see that for TI - digits MSG perform as well asthe PLP ,Professor D: Mm - hmm .PhD A: but this is not the case for Italian what {disfmarker} where the error rate is c is almost uh twice the error rate of PLP .Professor D: Mm - hmm .PhD A: So , um {vocalsound} uh, well , I don't think this is a bug but this {disfmarker} this is something in {disfmarker} probably in the MSG um process that uh I don't know what exactly . Perhaps the fact that the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker}there 's no low - pass filter , well , or no pre - emp pre - emphasis filter and that there is some DC offset in the Italian , or , well , something simple like that . But {disfmarker} that we need to sort out if want to uh getimprovement by combining PLP and MSGProfessor D: Mm - hmm .PhD A: because for the moment MSG do doesn't bring much information .Professor D: Mm - hmm .PhD A: And as Carmen said , if we combine the two ,we have the result , basically , of PLP .Professor D: I Um , the uh , baseline system {disfmarker} when you said the baseline system was uh , uh eighty - two percent , that was trained on what and tested on what ?That was , uh Italian mismatched d uh , uh , digits , uh , is the testing ,PhD B: Yeah .Professor D: and the training is Italian digits ?PhD B: Yeah .Professor D: So the " mismatch " just refers to the noise and{disfmarker} and , uh microphone and so forth ,PhD A: Yeah .PhD B: Yeah .Professor D: right ? So , um did we have {disfmarker} So would that then correspond to the first line here of where the training is{disfmarker} is the uh Italian digits ?PhD B: The train the training of the HTK ?Professor D: The {disfmarker}PhD B: Yes . Ah yes !Professor D: Yes .PhD B: This h Yes . Th - Yes .Professor D: Yes . Training of the net,PhD B: Yeah .Professor D: yeah . So , um {disfmarker} So what that says is that in a matched condition , {vocalsound} we end up with a fair amount worse putting in the uh PLP . Now w would {disfmarker} do wehave a number , I suppose for the matched {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I don't mean matched , but uh use of Italian {disfmarker} training in Italian digits for PLP only ?PhD B: Uh {pause} yes ?PhD A: Uh {pause}yeah , so this is {disfmarker} basically this is in the table . Uh {pause} so the number is fifty - two ,PhD B: Another table .PhD A: uh {disfmarker}Professor D: Fifty - two percent .PhD A: Fift - So {disfmarker} No , it 's{disfmarker} it 's the {disfmarker}PhD B: No .Professor D: No , fifty - two percent of eighty - two ?PhD A: Of {disfmarker} of {disfmarker} of uh {pause} eighteen {disfmarker}PhD B: Eighty .PhD A: of eighteen .PhDB: Eighty .PhD A: So it 's {disfmarker} it 's error rate , basically .PhD B: It 's plus six .PhD A: It 's er error rate ratio . So {disfmarker} Professor D: Oh this is accuracy ! PhD A: Uh , so we have nine {disfmarker} nine{disfmarker} let 's say ninety percent .PhD B: Yeah .Professor D: Oy ! {comment} OK . Ninety .PhD A: Yeah . Um {comment} which is uh {comment} what we have also if use PLP and MSG together ,Professor D: Yeah.PhD A: eighty - nine point seven .Professor D: OK , so even just PLP , uh , it is not , in the matched condition {disfmarker} Um I wonder if it 's a difference between PLP and mel cepstra , or whether it 's that the nethalf , for some reason , is not helping .PhD A: Uh . P - PLP and Mel cepstra give the same {disfmarker} same results .Professor D: Same result pretty much ?PhD A: Well , we have these results . I don't know . It 's not{disfmarker} Do you have this result with PLP alone , {comment} j fee feeding HTK ?Professor D: So , sPhD A: That {disfmarker} That 's what you mean ?PhD B: Yeah ,PhD A: Just PLP at the input of HTK .PhD B: yeahyeah yeah yeah , at the first {disfmarker} and the {disfmarker} Yeah .PhD A: Yeah . So , PLP {disfmarker}Professor D: Eighty - eight point six .PhD A: Yeah .Professor D: Um , so adding MSGPhD A: Um{disfmarker}Professor D: um {disfmarker} Well , but that 's {disfmarker} yeah , that 's without the neural net ,PhD A: Yeah , that 's without the neural netProfessor D: right ?PhD A: and that 's the result basically thatOGI has also with the MFCC with on - line normalization .Professor D: But she had said eighty - two .PhD A: This is the {disfmarker} w well , but this is without on - line normalization .Professor D: Right ? Oh , this{disfmarker} the eighty - two .PhD A: Yeah .PhD B: PhD A: Eighty - two is the {disfmarker} it 's the Aurora baseline , so MFCC . Then we can use {disfmarker} well , OGI , they use MFCC {disfmarker} th the baselineMFCC plus on - line normalizationProfessor D: Oh , I 'm sorry , I k I keep getting confused because this is accuracy .PhD A: Yeah , sorry . Yeah .PhD B: Yeah .Professor D: OK . Alright .PhD A: Yeah .Professor D: Alright .So this is {disfmarker} I was thinking all this was worse . OK so this is all betterPhD B: Yes , better .Professor D: because eighty - nine is bigger than eighty - two .PhD A: Mm - hmm .PhD B: Yeah .Professor D: OK . I'm {disfmarker} I 'm all better now . OK , go ahead .PhD A: So what happ what happens is that when we apply on - line normalization we jump to almost ninety percent .Professor D: Yeah . Mm - hmm .PhD A: Uh ,when we apply a neural network , is the same . We j jump to ninety percent .PhD B: Nnn , we don't know exactly .Professor D: Yeah .PhD A: And {disfmarker} And um {disfmarker} whatever the normalization ,actually . If we use n neural network , even if the features are not correctly normalized , we jump to ninety percent . So {disfmarker}Professor D: So we go from eighty - si eighty - eight point six to {disfmarker} toninety , or something .PhD A: Well , ninety {disfmarker} No , I {disfmarker} I mean ninety It 's around eighty - nine , ninety , eighty - eight .Professor D: Eighty - nine .PhD A: Well , there are minor {disfmarker} minordifferences .PhD B: Yeah .Professor D: And then adding the MSG does nothing , basically .PhD A: No .Professor D: Yeah . OK .PhD A: Uh For Italian , yeah .Professor D: For this case , right ?PhD A: Um .Professor D:Alright . So , um {disfmarker} So actually , the answer for experiments with one is that adding MSG , if you {disfmarker} uh does not help in that case .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor D: Um {disfmarker}PhD A:  But wYeah .Professor D: The other ones , we 'd have to look at it , but {disfmarker} And the multi - English , does uh {disfmarker} So if we think of this in error rates , we start off with , uh eighteen percent error rate ,roughly .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor D: Um {pause} and {pause} we uh almost , uh cut that in half by um putting in the on - line normalization and the neural net .PhD A: YeahProfessor D: And the MSG doesn'thowever particularly affect things .PhD A: No .Professor D: And we cut off , I guess about twenty - five percent of the error . Uh {pause} no , not quite that , is it . Uh , two point six out of eighteen . About , um {pause}sixteen percent or something of the error , um , if we use multi - English instead of the matching condition .PhD A: Mm - hmm . Yeah .Professor D: Not matching condition , but uh , the uh , Italian training .PhD A: Mm -hmm .PhD B: Yeah .Professor D: OK .PhD A: Mmm .PhD B: We select these {disfmarker} these {disfmarker} these tasks because it 's the more difficult .Professor D: Yes , good . OK ? So then you 're assuming multi -English is closer to the kind of thing that you could use since you 're not gonna have matching , uh , data for the {disfmarker} uh for the new {disfmarker} for the other languages and so forth . Um , one qu thing isthat , uh {disfmarker} I think I asked you this before , but I wanna double check . When you say " ME " in these other tests , that 's the multi - English ,PhD A: That 's {disfmarker} it 's a part {disfmarker} it 's{disfmarker}Professor D: but it is not all of the multi - English , right ? It is some piece of {disfmarker} part of it .PhD A: Or , one million frames .Professor D: And the multi - English is how much ?PhD B: You have herethe information .PhD A: It 's one million and a half . Yeah .Professor D: Oh , so you used almost all You used two thirds of it ,PhD A: Yeah .Professor D: you think . So , it it 's still {disfmarker} it hurts you {disfmarker}seems to hurt you a fair amount to add in this French and Spanish .PhD A: Mmm .PhD B: Yeah .Professor D: I wonder why Yeah . Uh .Grad C: Well Stephane was saying that they weren't hand - labeled ,PhD A: Yeah , it's {disfmarker}PhD B: Yeah .PhD A: Yeah .Grad C: the French and the Spanish .PhD B: The Spanish . Maybe for that .Professor D: Hmm .PhD A: Mmm .Professor D: It 's still {disfmarker} OK . Alright , go ahead . Andthen {disfmarker} then {disfmarker}PhD B: Um . Mmm , with the experiment type - two , I {disfmarker} first I tried to to combine , nnn , some feature from the MLP and other feature {disfmarker} another feature.Professor D: Mm - hmm .PhD B: And we s we can {disfmarker} first the feature are without delta and delta - delta , and we can see that in the situation , uh , the MSG - three , the same help nothing .Professor D: Mm- hmm .PhD B: And then I do the same but with the delta and delta - delta {disfmarker} PLP delta and delta - delta . And they all p but they all put off the MLP is it without delta and delta - delta . And we have a l littlebit less result than the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the baseline PLP with delta and delta - delta .Professor D: Mm - hmm .PhD B: Maybe if {disfmarker} when we have the new {disfmarker} the new {pause} neuralnetwork trained with PLP delta and delta - delta , maybe the final result must be better . I don't know .PhD A: Actually , just to be some more {disfmarker}PhD B: Uh {disfmarker}PhD A: Do This number , this eighty -seven point one number , has to be compared with theProfessor D: Yes , yeah , I mean it can't be compared with the otherPhD A: Which number ?Professor D: cuz this is , uh {disfmarker} with multi - English , uh ,training .PhD B: Mm - hmm .Professor D: So you have to compare it with the one over that you 've got in a box , which is that , uh the eighty - four point six .PhD B: Mm - hmm .Professor D: Right ?PhD A: Uh.Professor D: So {disfmarker}PhD A: Yeah , but I mean in this case for the eighty - seven point one we used MLP outputs for the PLP netProfessor D: Yeah .PhD A: and straight features with delta - delta . And straightfeatures with delta - delta gives you what 's on the first sheet .PhD B: Mm - hmm .Professor D: Yeah . Not t notPhD A: It 's eight eighty - eight point six .Professor D: tr No . No . No .PhD B: Yes .Professor D: Not trainedwith multi - English .PhD A: Uh , yeah , but th this is the second configuration .PhD B: No , but they {disfmarker} they feature @ @ without {disfmarker}PhD A: So we use feature out uh , net outputs together withfeatures . So yeah , this is not {disfmarker} perhaps not clear here but in this table , the first column is for MLP and the second for the features .Professor D: Eh . {comment} Oh , I see . Ah . So you 're saying w soasking the question , " What {disfmarker} what has adding the MLP done to improve over the ,PhD A: So , just {disfmarker} Yeah so , actually it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it decreased the {disfmarker} the accuracy.Professor D: uh {disfmarker}PhD B: Yeah .Professor D: Yes .PhD A: Because we have eighty - eight point six .Professor D: Uh - huh .PhD A: And even the MLP alone {disfmarker} What gives the MLP alone ? Multi -English PLP . Oh no , it gives eighty - three point six . So we have our eighty - three point six and now eighty - eighty point six ,PhD B: But {disfmarker}PhD A: that gives eighty - seven point one .Professor D: Mm -hmm . Eighty - s I thought it was eighty Oh , OK , eighty - three point six and eighty {disfmarker} eighty - eight point six .PhD A: Eighty - three point six . Eighty {disfmarker}Professor D: OK .PhD A: Is th is that right? Yeah ?PhD B: Yeah . But {disfmarker} I don't know {disfmarker} but maybe if we have the neural network trained with the PLP {pause} delta and delta - delta , maybe tha this can help .PhD A: Perhaps , yeah.Professor D: Well , that 's {disfmarker} that 's one thing , but see the other thing is that , um , I mean it 's good to take the difficult case , but let 's {disfmarker} let 's consider what that means . What {disfmarker}what we 're saying is that one o one of the things that {disfmarker} I mean my interpretation of your {disfmarker} your s original suggestion is something like this , as motivation . When we train on data that is in onesense or another , similar to the testing data , then we get a win by having discriminant training .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor D: When we train on something that 's quite different , we have a potential to have someproblems .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor D: And , um , if we get something that helps us when it 's somewhat similar , and doesn't hurt us too much when it {disfmarker} when it 's quite different , that 's maybe not sobad .PhD A: Yeah . Mmm .Professor D: So the question is , if you took the same combination , and you tried it out on , uh {disfmarker} on say digits ,PhD A: On TI - digits ? OK .Professor D: you know , d Was thatexperiment done ?PhD A: No , not yet .Professor D: Yeah , OK . Uh , then does that , eh {disfmarker} you know maybe with similar noise conditions and so forth , {comment} does it {disfmarker} does it then lookmuch better ?PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor D: And so what is the range over these different kinds of uh {disfmarker} of tests ? So , an anyway . OK , go ahead .PhD A: Yeah .PhD B: And , with this type of configurationwhich I do on experiment using the new neural net with name broad klatt s twenty - seven , uh , d I have found more or less the same result .Professor D: Mm - hmm .PhD A: So , it 's slightly better ,PhD B: Little bitbetter ?PhD A: yeah .Professor D: Slightly better .PhD A: Yeah .PhD B: Slightly bet better . Yes , is better .Professor D: And {disfmarker} and you know again maybe if you use the , uh , delta {pause} there , uh , youwould bring it up to where it was , uh you know at least about the same for a difficult case .PhD B: Yeah , maybe . Maybe . Maybe .PhD A: Yeah .PhD B: Oh , yeah .PhD A: Yeah . Well , so perhaps let 's {disfmarker} let


Professor B: I think for two years we were two months , uh , away from being done .PhD A: And what was that , Morgan ? What project ?Professor B: Uh , the , uh , TORRENT chip .PhD A: Oh .Professor B: Yeah . Wewere two {disfmarker} we were {disfmarker}PhD C: Yeah .Professor B: Uh , uh , we went through it {disfmarker} Jim and I went through old emails at one point and {disfmarker} and for two years there was this thingsaying , yeah , we 're {disfmarker} we 're two months away from being done . It was very {disfmarker} very believable schedules , too . I mean , we went through and {disfmarker} with the schedules {disfmarker}and we {disfmarker}PhD A: It was true for two years .Professor B: Yeah . Oh , yeah . It was very true .PhD A: So , should we just do the same kind of deal where we {pause} go around and do , uh , status report{pause} kind of things ? OK . And I guess when Sunil gets here he can do his last or something . So .Professor B: Yeah . So we {pause} probably should wait for him to come before we do his .PhD C: Mm - hmm .PhDA: OK . That 's a good idea .Professor B: Yeah .Grad F: OK .Professor B: Yeah .PhD A: Any objection ? Do y OK , MProfessor B: All in favorPhD A: Do you want to start , Morgan ? Do you have anything , or {disfmarker}?Professor B: Uh , I don't do anything . I {disfmarker} No , I mean , I {disfmarker} I 'm involved in discussions with {disfmarker} with people about what they 're doing , but I think they 're {disfmarker} since they 'rehere , they can talk about it themselves .Grad F: OK . So should I go so that , uh ,PhD A: Yeah . Why don't you go ahead , Barry ?Grad F: you 're gonna talk about Aurora stuff , per se ?PhD A: OK .Grad F: OK . Um .Well , this past week I 've just been , uh , getting down and dirty into writing my {disfmarker} my proposal . So , um {disfmarker} Mmm . I just finished a section on , uh {disfmarker} on talking about theseintermediate categories that I want to classify , um , as a {disfmarker} as a middle step . And , um , I hope to {disfmarker} hope to get this , um {disfmarker} a full rough draft done by , uh , Monday so I can give it toMorgan .PhD A: When is your , uh , meeting ?Grad F: Um , my meetingPhD A: Yeah .Grad F: with , uh {disfmarker} ? Oh , oh , you mean the {disfmarker} the quals .PhD A: The quals . Yeah .Grad F: Uh , the quals arehappening in July twenty - fifth .PhD A: Oh . Soon .Grad F: Yeah .PhD A: Uh - huh .Grad F: D - Day .PhD A: Yeah .Grad F: Uh - huh .PhD A: So , is the idea you 're going to do this paper and then you pass it out toeverybody ahead of time and {disfmarker} ?Grad F: Right , right . So , y you write up a proposal , and give it to people ahead of time , and you have a short presentation . And , um , and then , um {disfmarker} theneverybody asks you questions .PhD A: Hmm .Grad F: Yeah .PhD A: I remember now .Grad F: Yep . So , um .PhD A: Have you d ? I was just gonna ask , do you want to say any {disfmarker} a little bit about it ,Grad F:Y sPhD A: or {disfmarker} ? Mmm .Grad F: Oh . Uh , a little bit about {disfmarker} ?PhD A: Wh - what you 're {disfmarker} what you 're gonna {disfmarker} You said {disfmarker} you were talking about the , uh ,particular features that you were looking at ,Grad F: Oh , the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker}PhD A: or {disfmarker}Grad F: Right . Well , I was , um , I think one of the perplexing problems is , um , for a while I wasthinking that I had to come up with a complete set of intermediate features {disfmarker} in intermediate categories to {disfmarker} to classify right away . But what I 'm thinking now is , I would start with{disfmarker} with a reasonable set . Something {disfmarker} something like , um , um {disfmarker} like , uh , re regular phonetic features , just to {disfmarker} just to start off that way . And do some phonerecognition . Um , build a system that , uh , classifies these , um {disfmarker} these feat uh , these intermediate categories using , uh , multi - band techniques . Combine them and do phon phoneme recognition . Lookat {disfmarker} then I would look at the errors produced in the phoneme recognition and say , OK , well , I could probably reduce the errors if I included this extra feature or this extra intermediate category . Thatwould {disfmarker} that would reduce certain confusions over other confusions . And then {disfmarker} and then {vocalsound} reiterate . Um , build the intermediate classifiers . Uh , do phoneme recognition . Look atthe errors . And then postulate new {disfmarker} or remove , um , intermediate categories . And then do it again .PhD A: So you 're gonna use TIMIT ?Grad F: Um , for that {disfmarker} for that part of the{disfmarker} the process , yeah , I would use TIMIT .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Grad F: And , um , then {disfmarker} after {disfmarker} after , uh , um , doing TIMIT . Right ?PhD A: Mm - hmm .Grad F: Um , that 's{disfmarker} {vocalsound} that 's , um {disfmarker} that 's just the ph the phone recognition task .PhD A: Yeah .Grad F: Uh , I wanted to take a look at , um , things that I could model within word . So , I would mov Iwould then shift the focus to , um , something like Schw - Switchboard , uh , where I 'd {disfmarker} I would be able to , um {disfmarker} to model , um , intermediate categories that span across phonemes ,PhD A:Mm - hmm .Grad F: not just within the phonemes , themselves , um , and then do the same process there , um , on {disfmarker} on a large vocabulary task like Switchboard . Uh , and for that {disfmarker} for thatpart I would {disfmarker} I 'd use the SRI recognizer since it 's already set up for {disfmarker} for Switchboard . And I 'd run some {disfmarker} some sort of tandem - style processing with , uh , my intermediateclassifiers .PhD A: Oh . So that 's why you were interested in getting your own features into the SRI files .Grad F: Yeah . That 's why I {disfmarker} I was asking about that .PhD A: Yeah . Yeah .Grad F: Yeah . Um , andI guess that 's {disfmarker} that 's it . Any {disfmarker} any questions ?PhD A: Sounds good . So you just have a few more weeks , huh ?Grad F: Um , yeah . A few more .PhD A: It 's about a month from now ?Grad F:It 's a {disfmarker} it 's a month and {disfmarker} and a week .PhD A: Yeah .Grad F: Yeah .PhD A: So , uh , you want to go next , Dave ? And we 'll do {disfmarker}Grad E: Oh . OK , sure . So , um , last week I finallygot results from the SRI system about this mean subtraction approach . And , um , we {disfmarker} we got an improvement , uh , in word error rate , training on the TI - digits data set and testing on Meeting Recorderdigits of , um , {vocalsound} six percent to four point five percent , um , on the n on the far - mike data using PZM F , but , um , the near - mike performance worsened , um , from one point two percent to two pointfour percent . And , um , wh why would that be , um , {vocalsound} considering that we actually got an improvement in near - mike performance using HTK ? And so , uh , with some input from , uh , Andreas , I have atheory in two parts . Um , first of all HTK {disfmarker} sorry , SR - the SRI system is doing channel adaptation , and so HTK wasn't . Um , so this , um {disfmarker} This mean subtraction approach will do a kind ofchannel {pause} normalization and so that might have given the HTK use of it a boost that wouldn't have been applied in the SRI case . And also , um , the {disfmarker} Andreas pointed out the SRI system is usingmore parameters . It 's got finer - grained acoustic models . So those finer - grained acoustic models could be more sensitive to the artifacts {pause} in the re - synthesized audio . Um . And me and Barry were listeningto the re - synthesized audio and sometimes it seems like you get of a bit of an echo of speech in the background . And so that seems like it could be difficult for training , cuz you could have {pause} different phones{pause} lined up with a different foreground phone , {vocalsound} um , {vocalsound} depending on {pause} the timing of the echo . So , um , I 'm gonna try training on a larger data set , and then , eh , the systemwill have seen more examples o of these artifacts and hopefully will be more robust to them . So I 'm planning to use the Macrophone set of , um , read speech , and , um {disfmarker} Hmm .Professor B: I had anotherthought just now , which is , uh , remember we were talking before about {disfmarker} we were talking in our meeting about , uh , this stuff that {disfmarker} some of the other stuff that Avendano did , where theywere , um , getting rid of low - energy {pause} sections ? Um , uh , if you {disfmarker} if you did a high - pass filtering , as Hirsch did in {pause} late eighties to reduce some of the effects of reverberation , uh , uh ,Avendano and Hermansky were arguing that , uh , perhaps one of the reasons for that working was ma may not have even been the filtering so much but the fact that when you filter a {disfmarker} an all - positivepower spectrum you get some negative values , and you gotta figure out what to do with them if you 're gonna continue treating this as a power spectrum . So , what {disfmarker} what Hirsch did was , uh , set them tozero {disfmarker} set the negative values to zero . So if you imagine a {disfmarker} a waveform that 's all positive , which is the time trajectory of energy , um , and , uh , shifting it downwards , and then getting rid ofthe negative parts , that 's essentially throwing away the low - energy things . And it 's the low - energy parts of the speech where the reverberation is most audible . You know , you have the reverberation from higher- energy things showing up in {disfmarker} So in this case you have some artificially imposed {pause} reverberation - like thing . I mean , you 're getting rid of some of the other effects of reverberation , but becauseyou have these non - causal windows , you 're getting these funny things coming in , uh , at n And , um , what if you did {disfmarker} ? I mean , there 's nothing to say that the {disfmarker} the processing for this re -synthesis has to be restricted to trying to get it back to the original , according to some equation . I mean , you also could , uh , just try to make it nicer .Grad E: Uh - huh .Professor B: And one of the things you coulddo is , you could do some sort of VAD - like thingGrad E: Mm - hmm .Professor B: and you actually could take very low - energy sections and set them to some {disfmarker} some , uh , very low or {disfmarker} or nearzero {pause} value . I mean , uh , I 'm just saying if in fact it turns out that {disfmarker} that these echoes that you 're hearing are , uh {disfmarker}Grad E: Uh - huh .Professor B: or pre - echoes , whichever they are{disfmarker} are {disfmarker} are , uh , part of what 's causing the problem , you actually could get rid of them .Grad E: Uh - huh .Professor B: Be pretty simple . I mean , you do it in a pretty conservative wayGrad E:OK .Professor B: so that if you made a mistake you were more likely to {pause} keep in an echo than to throw out speech .Grad E: Hmm .PhD G: Um , what is the reverberation time {pause} like {pause} there ?GradE: In thi in this room ? Uh {disfmarker}PhD G: On , uh , the {disfmarker} the one what {disfmarker} the s in the speech that you are {disfmarker} you are using like ?Grad E: Y Yeah . I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I{disfmarker} I don't know .Professor B: So , it 's this room .PhD G: It 's , uh {disfmarker}Professor B: It 's {disfmarker} it 's this room .PhD G: Oh , this room ?Professor B: So {disfmarker}PhD G: OK .Professor B: so it's {disfmarker} these are just microphone {disfmarker} this micro close microphone and a distant microphone , he 's doing these different tests on .Grad F: Oh .Professor B: Uh , we should do a measurement in here . Ig think we never have . I think it 's {disfmarker} I would guess , uh , point seven , point eight seconds f uh , R TGrad F: Hmm !Professor B: something like that ? But it 's {disfmarker} you know , it 's this room .PhD G:Mm - hmm .Professor B: So .PhD G: OK . Mm - hmm .Professor B: Uh . But the other thing is , he 's putting in {disfmarker} w I was using the word " reverberation " in two ways . He 's also putting in , uh , a{disfmarker} he 's taking out some reverberation , but he 's putting in something , because he has {pause} averages over multiple windows stretching out to twelve seconds , which are then being subtracted from thespeech . And since , you know , what you subtract , sometimes you 'll be {disfmarker} you 'll be subtracting from some larger number and sometimes you won't . And {disfmarker}PhD G: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm.Professor B: So you can end up with some components in it that are affected by things that are seconds away . Uh , and if it 's a low {pause} energy compo portion , you might actually hear some {pause} funny things.PhD G: Yeah .Grad E: O o one thing , um , I noticed is that , um , the mean subtraction seems to make the PZM signals louder after they 've been re - synthesized . So I was wondering , is it possible that one reason ithelped with the Aurora baseline system is {pause} just as a kind of gain control ? Cuz some of the PZM signals sound pretty quiet if you don't amplify them .PhD C: Mm - hmm . I don't see why {disfmarker} why yoursignal is louder after processing , because yoGrad E: Yeah . I don't know why - y , uh , either .PhD C: Yeah .Professor B: I don't think just multiplying the signal by two would have any effect .PhD C: Mm - hmm .Grad E:Oh , OK .Professor B: Yeah . I mean , I think if you really have louder signals , what you mean is that you have {pause} better signal - to - noise ratio .PhD C: Well , well {disfmarker}Professor B: So if what you 'redoing is improving the signal - to - noise ratio , then it would be better .PhD C: Mm - hmm .Professor B: But just it being bigger if {disfmarker} with the same signal - to - noise ratio {disfmarker}Grad E: It w i i itwouldn't affect things .Professor B: No .PhD C: Yeah .Grad E: OK .PhD C: Well , the system is {disfmarker} use {pause} the absolute energy , so it 's a little bit dependent on {disfmarker} on the {pause} signal level .But , not so much , I guess .Professor B: Well , yeah . But it 's trained and tested on the same thing .PhD C: Mmm .Professor B: So if the {disfmarker} if the {disfmarker} if you change {vocalsound} in both trainingand test , the absolute level by a factor of two , it will n have no effect .PhD C: Mm - hmm . Yeah .PhD A: Did you add {pause} this data to the training set , for the Aurora ? Or you just tested on this ?Grad E: Uh{disfmarker} Um . Did I w what ?PhD A: Well , Morgan was just saying that , uh , as long as you do it in both training and testing , it shouldn't have any effect .Grad E: Sorry ? Yeah .PhD A: But I {disfmarker} I was{pause} sort of under the impression that you just tested with this data .Grad E: I {disfmarker} I bPhD A: You didn't {pause} train it also .Grad E: I {disfmarker} Right . I trained on clean TI - digits . I {disfmarker} Idid the mean subtraction on clean TI - digits . But I didn't {disfmarker} I 'm not sure if it made the clean ti TI - digits any louder .Professor B: Oh , I see .Grad E: I only remember noticing it made the , um , PZM signallouder .Professor B: OK . Well , I don't understand then . Yeah .Grad E: Huh . I don't know . If it 's {disfmarker} if it 's {disfmarker} like , if it 's trying to find a {disfmarker} a reverberation filter , it could be that thisreverberation filter is making things quieter . And then if you take it out {disfmarker} that taking it out makes things louder . I mean .Professor B: Uh , no . I mean , {vocalsound} uh , there 's {disfmarker} there 'snothing inherent about removing {disfmarker} if you 're really removing ,Grad E: Nuh - huh .Professor B: uh , r uh , then I don't {pause} see how that would make it louder .Grad E: The mean . OK . Yeah , I see.Professor B: So it might be just some {disfmarker}Grad E: Yeah . OK . So I should maybe listen to that stuff again .Professor B: Yeah . It might just be some artifact of the processing that {disfmarker} that , uh , if you're {disfmarker} Uh , yeah . I don't know .Grad E: Oh . OK .PhD A: I wonder if there could be something like , uh {disfmarker} for s for the PZM data ,PhD C: EhPhD A: uh , you know , if occasionally , uh , somebodyhits the table or something , you could get a spike . Uh . I 'm just wondering if there 's something about the , um {disfmarker} you know , doing the mean normalization where , uh , it {disfmarker} it could cause{pause} you to have better signal - to - noise ratio . Um .Professor B: Well , you know , there is this . Wait a minute . It {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} i maybe {disfmarker} i If , um {disfmarker} Subtracting the{disfmarker} the mean log spectrum is {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} is like dividing by the spectrum . So , depending what you divide by , if your {disfmarker} if s your estimate is off and sometimes you 're{disfmarker} you 're {disfmarker} you 're getting a small number , you could make it bigger .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Grad E: Mm - hmm .Professor B: So , it 's {disfmarker} it 's just a {disfmarker} a question of{disfmarker} there 's {disfmarker} It {disfmarker} it could be that there 's some normalization that 's missing , or something to make it {disfmarker}Grad E: Mm - hmm .Professor B: Uh , y you 'd think it shouldn't belarger , but maybe in practice it is . That 's something to think about .Grad E: Hmm .Professor B: I don't know .PhD C: I had a question about the system {disfmarker} the SRI system . So , {vocalsound} you trained iton TI - digits ? But except this , it 's exactly the same system as the one that was tested before and that was trained on {pause} Macrophone . Right ? So on TI - digits it gives you one point two percent error rate andon Macrophone it 's still O point eight . Uh , but is it {pause} exactly the same system ?Grad E: Uh . I think so .PhD C: Hmm .Grad E: If you 're talking about the Macrophone results that Andreas had about , um , aweek and a half ago , I think it 's the same system .PhD C: Mm - hmm . So you use VTL - uh , vocal tract length normalization and , um , like MLLR transformations also ,Grad E: Mm - hmm .PhD C: and{disfmarker}Professor B: I 'm sorry , was his point eight percent , er , a {disfmarker} a result on testing on Macrophone or {disfmarker} or training ?PhD C: all that stuff .Grad E: That 's {disfmarker}PhD C: It was{pause} training on Macrophone and testing {disfmarker} yeah , on {disfmarker} on meeting digits .Professor B: Oh . So that was done already . So we were {disfmarker} Uh , and it 's point eight ? OK .PhD C: Mm -hmm .Professor B: OK .PhD C: Yeah . I {disfmarker} I 've just been text {comment} testing the new {pause} Aurora front - end with {disfmarker} well , Aurora system actually {disfmarker} so front - end and HTK ,um , acoustic models on the meeting digits and it 's a little bit better than the previous system . We have {disfmarker} I have two point seven percent error rate . And before with the system that was proposed , it 'swhat ? It was three point nine . So .Professor B: Oh , that 's a lot better .PhD C: We are getting better .Professor B: So , what {disfmarker} w ?PhD C: And {disfmarker}PhD G: With the {disfmarker} with the HTK back- end ? What we have for Aurora ?PhD C: Yeah . Two point seven .PhD G: I know in the meeting , like {disfmarker}PhD C: On the meeting we have two point seven .PhD G: Right . Oh .Grad F: That 's with the new IIRfilters ?PhD C: Uh . Yeah , yeah . So , yeah ,Grad F: OK .PhD C: we have {pause} the new LDA filters , and {disfmarker} I think , maybe {disfmarker} I didn't look , but one thing that makes a difference is this DCoffset compensation . Uh , eh {disfmarker} Do y did you have a look at {disfmarker} at the meet uh , meeting digits , if they have a DC component , or {disfmarker} ?Grad E: I {disfmarker} I didn't . No .PhD C: Oh.Professor B: Hmm .PhD G: No . The DC component could be negligible . I mean , if you are {pause} recording it through a mike . I mean , any {disfmarker} all of the mikes have the DC removal {disfmarker} somecapacitor sitting right in {pause} that bias it .Professor B: Yeah . But this {disfmarker} uh , uh , uh , no . Because , uh , there 's a sample and hold in the A - toD. And these period these typically do have a DC offset.PhD G: Oh , OK .Professor B: And {disfmarker} and they can be surprisingly large . It depends on the electronics .PhD G: Oh , so it is the digital {disfmarker} OK . It 's the A - toD that introduces the DC in .ProfessorB: Yeah . The microphone isn't gonna pass any DC .PhD G: Yeah . Yeah . Yeah .Professor B: But {disfmarker} but ,PhD G: OK .Professor B: typi you know , unless {disfmarker} Actually , there are {pause}instrumentation mikes that {disfmarker} that do pass {disfmarker} go down to DC . But {disfmarker} but ,PhD G: Mm - hmm .Professor B: uh , no , it 's the electronics . And they {disfmarker} and {disfmarker}PhD G:Mm - hmm .Professor B: then there 's amplification afterwards . And you can get , I think it was {disfmarker} I think it was in the {pause} Wall Street Journal data that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} I can't remember


Project Manager: So is {disfmarker} Why not save that .Marketing: No , you'll ha have to open it up from elsewhere .Project Manager: {gap} {disfmarker} Do you want to replace existing file , no . {vocalsound} Iactually tried to transfer it to My Documents , but {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah , you have to you have to close that window . 'Cause that's the save one isn't it , so {disfmarker} And then find it .Project Manager:{gap} spreadsheet .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah , but I've ta uhMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: right , I'll just re-do it . That's the easiest way . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Right .User Interface: Well we've made our prototype anyway . We can have a good look at that . {vocalsound}Marketing: You pass it round to have a look .User Interface: {vocalsound} Mm-hmm . Y no , it's a slightlycurved around the sides . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Mm very nice .User Interface: Um , it's almost curved like up to the main display as well . And the little line at the bottom indicates the bit {disfmarker}the panel that you pull down .Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: And the extra function buttons are below that panel on the little line .Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: And we've got the stick on the button withthe company logo on .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: We also have a apple slash cherry design at the top .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} So it is , yeah .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound} {gap} {vocalsound}Marketing: Cherry would be alright actually .User Interface: Yeah ,Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: it's a bit more fun , isn't it ? And it's kinda not really at a kind of {disfmarker} youthink apple , you think computers , like Apple Mac .Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah , we might get a {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm . Copyright , yeah . What's this this one ?User Interface: Yeah , and cherries arefun , summery .Marketing: What's that one there ?User Interface: Ah , that's the mute .Industrial Designer: For the M_ . {vocalsound}Marketing: Oh , okay . Right .User Interface: {gap} {vocalsound} It {disfmarker}it'd probably have to be labelled mute .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: They're thinking {disfmarker}User Interface: But um , we didn't have anything small enough to write .Marketing: Uh-huh .IndustrialDesigner: For the first time , well it was hard to get the h um the actual labelling on the individual buttons .Marketing: Okay . Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah . Uh , we just chose simple shapes for allthem .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Um , the important ones are the volume ones . So we made them a bit bigger . The mute could possibly be a bit smaller .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Hum ,you separate off in colour the volume related buttons from the channel related buttons , so you've got the volume in orange on design there ,User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah .IndustrialDesigner: and the the channel is in blue .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: R right . Um ,User Interface: Yeah , and we chose a V_ plus and V_ minus .Project Manager: all these things have cost implications .And so when I done my thing on cost {vocalsound} a {disfmarker} I had assumed that the only uh button that would be a different colour would be the uh the red apple button . So {disfmarker} However , I've now{gap} . {vocalsound} But um , {vocalsound} yeah so uh but there would be a cost implication on that ,Marketing: I'll see if I can find them .Project Manager: and uh {disfmarker} as I suppose that {vocalsound} sowhether {vocalsound} wanted to put in all these colours , would be uh open to debate , I suppose .Industrial Designer: Yeah , sisUser Interface: Well the colours wouldn't {disfmarker} like that's {disfmarker} theywouldn't be too important ,Marketing: Have {disfmarker}User Interface: but we didn't have any white Play-Doh . {vocalsound} So that's where the colour buttons came from . {vocalsound}Project Manager:{vocalsound} An important consideration .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Right , okay so um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} And the second one underneath would be the idea for the{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yes , we'll have the slide-away .Project Manager: Right , okay . So we've got um detail design meeting .Industrial Designer: Bottom .Project Manager: Right . So {disfmarker} So ,we've got {vocalsound} prototype presentation , which we've just done , evaluation criteria , um and finance , so I guess w we have to evaluate if that meets the various uh aspects that we're looking for uh from umour previous meeting .Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So other than the fact that it doesn't have the second layer , but um obviously obviously it would .Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} But other than that , we got the red apple . We got the buttons and the only thing that has really changed is the is thecolouration of the buttons ,Industrial Designer: Yes , yes .Project Manager: and {vocalsound} the bit after the evaluation criteria is uh is the finance . {vocalsound} And the {vocalsound} and the cost implication.Industrial Designer: Okay .Marketing: Right .Project Manager: The only snag about this is that uh {vocalsound} the cost is probably kind of important . So um , and then the production evaluation , as to how easy thatwould be to uh to manufacture .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Um , and whether it would uh {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} So if you had to do a presentation or {disfmarker}will you just work it on the prototype ?Industrial Designer: This this is a {disfmarker}User Interface: Uh , that's it . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: yes , this is our presentation of the prototype .Marketing: That's theprProject Manager: Right , so uh as far as the the finance of it would be concern would be to make sure that the cost {disfmarker} aye the production cost 'cause you may remember that was one of the first uhconsiderations was to be in d under um uh twelve fifty or two and a half {disfmarker} uh twelve and a half Euros .Marketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: So , there's no redesign . So thatshould uh {disfmarker} Right , so , seems to me that the thing that I have to do is is quickly find that uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Could we get this on the board just so we can see {disfmarker} or do youmean do you have the figures there ?Marketing: {gap} we should {gap} plug it in .Project Manager: Right .Marketing: Do you wanna plu do you wanna plug it in into the the back of that one .Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: 'Kay , Alice . So , shMarketing: We could do it as we d go along , the production costs , looking at the prototype .Project Manager: Right . {gap} .Industrial Designer: 'Kay this should be then.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay , so , by the fact that we've got uh the simple chip and the uh kinetic energy source , we've got a single curved case . We've got a rubber uh case materials supplements . So , wehad decided that we're having rubber buttons and {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound} Have a push button interface .Project Manager: Okay . W the button supplements .Industrial Designer: Um{disfmarker}Project Manager: Well , originally , I thought there would just be uh one in there because it was the one red apple . But {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Um {disfmarker}Project Manager: So the so thereal w the real question then would come in . Do you make all the buttons {disfmarker}Marketing: Well do we'll do it on the prototype ,Project Manager: OMarketing: so do two , see how much it is .Project Manager:Well , so we've got one special button form , which was the apple . Everything else is gonna be a standard .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: We've got special material , rubber , wood ,titanium , et cetera and that ,Industrial Designer: And then we'd have {disfmarker}Project Manager: so , I was {disfmarker} {vocalsound} originally , I was thinking {gap} rubber wasn't special ,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: but according to this , maybe it is .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: {vocalsound} So {disfmarker} And the r I mean effectively we've got sixteen buttons that we're gonna have on there.Marketing: Yeah . I think you just do one , don't you , for the {disfmarker}Project Manager: W {vocalsound} I don't know {vocalsound} is {vocalsound} is {vocalsound} is the sort of answer , is that meant to be allsixteen buttons , and therefore {disfmarker} I mean , what's the op The option was maybe not to have rubber buttons , but just to have the one that was soft and spongy , and therefore {disfmarker}Marketing: I thinkI think it's just it's just a one . Else {disfmarker}Project Manager: Whereas it would be {disfmarker} the special colour would be for the {disfmarker} So you would only have the one special button that was rubber ,whereas the rest would be hard plastic . {vocalsound}Marketing: I thi I think I think the button supplement i is just a supplement for all the buttons {gap} made in a different material , rather than per button .ProjectManager: Mm .Marketing: I don't know though .Project Manager: I would {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {disfmarker} Every design change is uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} sound] I dunno ,Marketing: Hmm .ProjectManager: um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Okay , um , if we just had all the buttons as standard , except for the one red apple , then that would take care of that , I guess . We'd have one special colour and one specialbutton form .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: And when I plugged that in last time {disfmarker} {gap} remember it has to be under twelve and a half . As far as I know , that um {vocalsound} that took care ofthe uh of the various supplements .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: And if {disfmarker} What happened ?Marketing: You've just gone off the window into another one . It's on the bottom row .User Interface:Maybe if you just minimise that one in the top right-hand corner of the little box .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Now , right . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}ProjectManager: Okay , so , but the point would be that if we uh if we just did special {disfmarker} Sorry , you were saying that it would be that one , that you would put in one there .Marketing: Yeah . Yeah .Project Manager:Okay .Industrial Designer: So that's nine point one there so we've got some {disfmarker}Project Manager: So it {disfmarker} Well , is it s is {disfmarker} no , it's nine point seven I've got .Industrial Designer: 'Kay.Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: Just give us a bit of {disfmarker}Project Manager: So , that would {vocalsound} that would work out fine if uh uh as assuming your correction are are{vocalsound} {disfmarker} assuming that that one change covers all the buttons , then that would be fine .Marketing: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .Project Manager: And there's nothing else as far as I can see that we we haduh planned to put on {gap} .User Interface: SMarketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I {gap} switching around those th um on the electronics we got the sample sensor . At the moment we've just got the simplechip , which costs one .Project Manager: Uh-huh .Industrial Designer: Um , I guess the sample sens sample speaker would be the voice recognition thing , which puts up to four ?Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer:We should be slightly over our budget but if we gather something else down to slightly lower standard , and maybe go with the one the special form buttons , then we could have the speech {disfmarker}Marketing:Yeah .Project Manager: Well , hold on . Um , if we Okay , that gives us twelve point sevenIndustrial Designer: So uh maybe if we got rid of like the maybe one of the special colours , kept them all the same colour , thenwe could have the voice recognitionProject Manager: But remember that the idea was to keep it the colour of the {gap} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: without {disfmarker}Project Manager: Oh , I see , so just takeout the special colour for the apple and {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah .User Interface: Um , {gap} . D wouldn't you have to keep the simple chip there as well ? You know how you turn that one to a zero, wouldn't the chip and the sample speaker be separate things ,Marketing: Yeah , we have to have it {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Oh possibly , yeah , yeah maybe .User Interface: so you need both of them?Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Maybe um we'd be giving up on the kinetic . Um {disfmarker}Project Manager: And go for battery instead .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: That would give you one less.Industrial Designer: We should {disfmarker} Yeah , that would save us one , though we'd still be slightly ovProject Manager: But you reckon that i I mean the thing is that you wanted to a appeal to people and nothave to replace batteries .Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah . Well , since it's the {disfmarker} through the whole technology type thing , um , you were saying in the market research that people like kind of interestinggadgets in them . Um , whether they would figure the {vocalsound} the s uh sample senor and the sample speaker , voice recognition be sort of a worthwhile thing to have .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer:And then still have the batteries ,Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: or whatever they would prefer not uh {disfmarker} You know what I mean ? The the problem was the battery's running out and losing the umlosing the remote .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: So you gotta decide which of those is more important to them .Project Manager: {vocalsound} But which do you think {disfmarker}or which do we think is the more important of the options ? In a sense , at the moment , we've got a total which we need to reduce down by one point two .User Interface: I think the voice recognition .Project Manager:At least . Remember that was a minimum requirement . The other option if we're planning on just going for something cheap and cheerful , would be to um make it {gap} originally , we're gonna make it a simpleproduct .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Shall we shall we evaluate the prototype as we've got it now first , and then sort of make decisions about what needs to be changed after ?Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Makes sense .Industrial Designer: OkayMarketing: Okay . Right um , I have a little thing . So , we've all got a note of {disfmarker} it's thirteen point seven , isn't it , with everything we want on .Project Manager: {gap}. Sorry , do you want that back up ?Marketing: Yeah , I just had a presentation to do . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Right .User Interface: But I do think uh the v uh voice recognition thing would be more impressivethan the fact that it's got no battery .Project Manager: Okay , but remember the main {disfmarker} the only reason we were planning on having the voice recognition was so that they could find the remote if it got lost.Marketing: Mm-hmm . Mm . {vocalsound} Right okay um , This is about the evaluation criteria that we use for the the prototype we've got here .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: And so the method is that thedesign team makes a prototype , and we evaluate the prototype against some criteria that we've formulated . And those ones are gonna be in response to sort of market research , and also finance , I guess .{vocalsound} And do that on a scale from say true being one and false being seven , so if it's neither true nor false , then that's four . So , I got a set of criteria just based on the marketing that we need to add in afinancial one as well , at the end . Um so , We have to say whether it's true or false that the product looks and feels fancy . Um {disfmarker} The {disfmarker} whether the product demonstrates technical innovation .Whether it's easy to use . Whether it's incorporating sort of the fashion element to attract the buyer . And whether it's a sort of recognisable Real Reaction product . And I have to go up onto the whiteboard and do thisapparently ,Industrial Designer: Okay .Marketing: so {vocalsound} I'll go over here . {vocalsound} Right . So the first one is um , does the product look and feel fancy . So if we do a sort of a one {disfmarker} So{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Okay , well we have a single curve , which was {gap} maybe like the feel of the product's quite good .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: So uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: Um , then we have the rubber kinda spongy feel , which was in at the time .Marketing: Yeah . Yeah . Yeah .Industrial Designer: Um , {vocalsound} sorry that'd be considered fancy .User Interface:Yeah , I'd maybe give it a a two .Marketing: {vocalsound} Of {disfmarker} but I think {disfmarker} What {disfmarker} Is one false , or is t one true ?User Interface: One's true .Marketing: I forgot . One's true , andokay . Seven's falUser Interface: And a four is neutral .Marketing: Four is neutral , okay . So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So maybe {gap} maybe a two .User Interface: Yeah , 'cause we haven't got the doublecurve , so we can't like say it's completely true .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Go for one . {vocalsound} Yep .Marketing: Right .User Interface: {vocalsound} But it's pretty close . We've got almost everything we can.Marketing: Okay . Right .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: I gonna put underneath so I've got some more space . So , false is seven , true is one , and {disfmarker} So uh say about a two for fancy ,IndustrialDesigner: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: you think ?Project Manager: Yeah , why not not ,Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: m m maybe nearer three .Marketing: Okay , well d you do an average at the end , Idon't know . Um {disfmarker}Project Manager: Two three . Well , it's just that uh saying something {disfmarker} {vocalsound} remember that when you look down , we've got solar power , we've got uh various otherthings you could have , and we're not going for these options .Marketing: Uh-huh . This this is just this is just for like the look . Does it sort of look fancy rather than functional . So {disfmarker}Project Manager:Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah , I suppose that might be in the technical innovation bit .Marketing: Yeah , so that {disfmarker} so sh should we go for a a two on that ?Project Manager: Okay .Marketing:'Kay . And I mean , how much does the product demonstrate technical innovation do you reckon ?Industrial Designer: Um , {gap} deciding between the kinetic power or um the speech recognition , and if we had eitherof those for our budget , they both show a reasonable amount of speech recognition .Marketing: D yeah . Okay . So , what about the pr The prototype as it is ,Industrial Designer: Um {disfmarker}Marketing: we've gotwe've got the speech recognition on it , haven't we .Industrial Designer: But not the kinetic .Marketing: But not the kinetic .Industrial Designer: Like the power .Project Manager: No . 'Cause you can't afford that{disfmarker} w we took that out too .Industrial Designer: No , we c ca yeah , we can't afford both .Marketing: Alright , so {disfmarker}Project Manager: Didn't you ? Or {disfmarker}Marketing: So it doesn't{disfmarker} It's pretty {disfmarker} The prototype as it is isn't sort of um fulfilling the {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: No may is {disfmarker} maybe about neutralUser Interface: Maybe a three .Industrial Designer:plus it it it's got something , but it hasn't got {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay . Yeah .Project Manager: Well , wait a minute . In thirteen point seven we do have kinetic .User Interface: I would give it morethan a four .Project Manager: The problem is we have to reduce down from there to get it down to twelve point five .Industrial Designer: Right .Project Manager: And one way of doing that would be to take out thekinetic .Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: So , it's very much dependant on what you do with your options . And if you're definitely going for the sample sensor and sample speaker , then {disfmarker}because that {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: 'Kay .Marketing: Right , okay .Project Manager: the other functions we've got in are are more at the {vocalsound} {disfmarker} The special material , the rubber , wood ,titanium , et cetera , if you go for that , th that's at the high end 'cause that's point six , whereas down at uh just special colours uh is point two . Now you're trying to lose one point two , so it seems to me that if you'regoing for the sample sensors {disfmarker} speaker , you're basically then having to go for the cheaper options on everything else .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: And and the simple