Project Manager: Uh fourth meeting . {vocalsound}User Interface: We have to do what ?Project Manager: Some extra deciding .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} W what ? Alri alright . We'll see .Project Manager:{vocalsound} Well {disfmarker}User Interface: Oh .Project Manager: {gap} I'll show you the notes again . Very interesting .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well you'll you two will uh present usyour prototype .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Then um {disfmarker} I guess that's your bit ? I I didn't s see anything about it ,Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: so {vocalsound} I already uh thoughtyou uh you were {gap} to do that .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So the you're uh {gap} .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I'll show you how we're going to do with financing this uhdesign .User Interface: Mm .Industrial Designer: Yeah , that's important too . Yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: And then we'll evaluate , after after we have redesigned it .User Interface: {vocalsound} Bit late .{vocalsound}Project Manager: Because uh well we'll see about the costs . Um we'll uh evaluate our p our uh production and then uh we can close .Industrial Designer: Alright .Project Manager: Well the finance uh we'lldo later , so um firstly uh {vocalsound} I'll show you the notes . {vocalsound} I don't think it's very interesting . {vocalsound}User Interface: I think it is .Project Manager: Oh nei . Uh no . {vocalsound} Alright . This iscopy paste . So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: From me of course , yeah .Project Manager: Of course . You had some very strange layout .Industrial Designer: Well from us all , yeah , from all of us . Yeah .{vocalsound} It's a nice chorus , yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Well um {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: We ge we went through the agenda ,IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}Project Manager: and well we had some uh some presentations from you three . And uh I summarised what you said to us . So uh I don't think it's very interesting and go through it again.Industrial Designer: Repeat it yeah . Alright .Project Manager: So uh {disfmarker} This is what we decided . It's also copy paste from what we made together . So we still know that .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager:And then uh we can we can uh use the time better . Well uh next you two will uh present uh the pot prototype for us .Industrial Designer: Alright , we both uh will ?Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Or one ofus will ?User Interface: {vocalsound} Alright .Industrial Designer: Uh {disfmarker}User Interface: No you go and I'll uh supplement you .Industrial Designer: Alright . If I make mistakes uh you'll uh {disfmarker}UserInterface: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: Correct . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Right . Uh well this is our design .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Uh it's pretty uh much uh like uh Mike draw uhdrew uh the in the during the last meeting . With uh the different uh perspectives of it . Uh we'll begin uh with the front . We have of course uh the the round shape uh the round uh basic shape . Um with uh the upperpart being the front . Th So there's this part um {vocalsound} which is made of hard plastic , the front . And uh we're we're using different colours . Of course for the launch we use the basic ugly colours ,ProjectManager: {vocalsound} Yeah .Industrial Designer: and later we'll put out uh more interesting covers with different patterns and pictures and everything .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: But basically ,different colours , bright colours not black , too dark . Fancy colours . {vocalsound} Um then we have uh the lower part {vocalsound} of the of the device . Uh which is of course um part of the back actually , becauseit's also titanium . You can see it also on the on the on the side view , that only this part is the front , and the rest of it , the under uh the under side uh of it , yeah , the back side and the lower part of the front is ofcourse titanium made of titanium , and has the titanium colour of course , the look . Um then we have uh on back on the front uh the logo in the upper corner ,Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: uh which is uhmade uh which is also part of the back , part of the titanium uh titanium part .User Interface: Yeah , it's a double R_ , but {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah ?User Interface: It's a double R_ .Industrial Designer:It's a double R_ . Yeah the logo {disfmarker}User Interface: But {vocalsound} it's very difficult to to draw that in {disfmarker} Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah , alright .Industrial Designer: Uh uh it's difficult to draw sosmall , but it's our double R_ uh logo is in there .Project Manager: Okay . Yeah .Industrial Designer: Um so that's the logo in the upper lef uh right corner . Then we have the buttons . Uh it's difficult to draw again thelittle oval or round {disfmarker} I think oval will be better for the for the d for the different uh channel buttons .User Interface: Oval yeah .Project Manager: Alright .Industrial Designer: So {gap} uh oval , n those arehere . And then we have the m The mUser Interface: Channel up and volume ?Industrial Designer: Yeah the the con the the the , yeah , the t volume and the channel controls uh in the middle here . Um um with kind ofarrow shapes , which makes it also a bit more exciting than basic round or um uh {vocalsound} uh square buttons . And also here are the two uh buttons we agreed on . We have the Okay button . Oh nei we uh theOkay button's here in the middle of the of the operators , of the channel and uh volume um changers .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: And then we've here the Menu button andthe {disfmarker}Project Manager: Alright .User Interface: Menu for the L_C_D_ screen .Industrial Designer: And the video button . The {disfmarker}Project Manager: So {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm right .UserInterface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah . And of course this low part , this is the L_C_D_ screen .Project Manager: 'Kay .Industrial Designer: Uh this is what we made of it . You can make uh suggestions uh ifyou want .Project Manager: Well if I look at it , the side the side view {disfmarker}User Interface: Well , at the back {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Maybe we maybe we should finish first uh ourtalkUser Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: and then you can add suggestions .Project Manager: Oh yeah alright . Yeah {gap} .Industrial Designer: Maybe I I don't want to {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I don't want tosuppress you but n I'll uh finish this uh quick .Project Manager: {gap}Industrial Designer: Um okay I've had everything I guess on the front ?User Interface: No the back . With the logo and our uh l uh{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah the back . Yeah . {vocalsound} We thought about {disfmarker} Yeah , uh the back is of course totally titanium . {vocalsound} And we thought about the logo big in the middle.Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Just so again the double R_ . We have then the logo on front and on the back .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Maybe that's too muchProject Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: but you have to say uh say that if you think that way .User Interface: No I don't think {disfmarker} And the {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: And the company slogan , we thought in a kind of arcshape uh above the logo .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: That's basically what we were thinking about ,Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay .Industrial Designer: and {disfmarker}ProjectManager: WUser Interface: And about the side view um {disfmarker} This the front won't be as thick ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: but again th the the drawing technique makes it very difficult to toreally uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well I see , but {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Oh and uh before I forget . Yeah the the voice , of course ,Project Manager: Well . Yeah I see it .Industrial Designer: the voicerecorder is uh at the bottom .Project Manager: Yes .Industrial Designer: And you can record it uh using , yeah , the the the back of the f w device .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: When I look at uh when Ilook at this side view , I think w when I have that in my hand , it's terrible .User Interface: Well , it won't be visible . Mm ?Project Manager: If if you look if if this this is thick , and this is thin , th th then it that it liesover your hands . But {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Why ? {vocalsound} Well it fits uh it it it it fits the hand , {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: mean uh the the the the {disfmarker}ProjectManager: Well what what what I what I agree is that when uh when um you have such of uh an arc in the middle , so that the the a the ends and the fronts is a bit thicker , so th then it falls over your hands .Marketing:Yeah , I agree .User Interface: {gap} If y {vocalsound} If you handle a remote , you you usually don't have your hand straight like this .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} In the middle in the {disfmarker}UserInterface: You you have it a bit uh {disfmarker} Yeah .Marketing: It depends on the size . If it's kinda small , this is is great . But if it's it's larger , then you want to grab it .Project Manager: And how large is it ?UserInterface: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah , that's the question .Industrial Designer: That's the question .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Uh well {disfmarker} Yeah . H What doyou suggest I mean we do ? {gap} This was Mike's prototype ,Project Manager: Well uh {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and y you seemed to agreed on it .Project Manager: Well the sides Ihaven't seen yet , uh {gap} ?Industrial Designer: But now you have a totally different {gap} .User Interface: Well , they lay there all the time .Industrial Designer: The size ? Yeah well the size doesn't really matter w Imean {disfmarker}Project Manager: They the the the the the side view ,Industrial Designer: Side ? Uh oh the side ?Project Manager: we didn't uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: W we we he drew the s the side ,UserInterface: Yeah yeah .Industrial Designer: but you d you weren't paying attention as usual .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Well any case , we'll discuss it now . Uh Ithink uh this is a pretty good uh good idea {gap} .Marketing: Yeah , I agree with the L_C_D_ screen . You have it in your palm like this , and you can watch uh watch the screen . And if you have it li in the middle , yourhand might be over it .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: But you you hold it like this .User Interface: Yeah you you don't you don't grab it ,Industrial Designer: You're not holdingit like this or something .User Interface: you you {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: You , yeah , y How do you call it ? Yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Well y y y you don't have itlike this .Project Manager: No no no .Industrial Designer: You have it more like this .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {gap} You you you're using buttons this way , or if you're right-handed , this way.Marketing: Like you're holding your telephone .Project Manager: Yep .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: So you {disfmarker} Yeah . So {disfmarker}Marketing: Because if you have a screen on it , you wannalook at your screen .User Interface: Hmm . That way , it it falls into your hand . I think . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah well {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: And maybe you can youcan grab it a bit higher ,Marketing: Yeah , I agree on this .Industrial Designer: so {disfmarker} Well {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: No , I don't think so . That's not uh the point{disfmarker}User Interface: No but but {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Well the the {disfmarker} Well that's a reason to to to put the L_C_D_ screen uh of course on the upper side , but {disfmarker}User Interface:{vocalsound} Well f for as far as I can see , three of us agreeProject Manager: Yeah wellUser Interface: and only Nils {disfmarker}Project Manager: uh I think uh if you t if you three uh agree then then that's it .UserInterface: But you're the Project Manager , you can make the hard decisions . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yes . So uh I c I cIndustrial Designer: If necessary .Project Manager: Well , we'll we we'll do itlike this .Industrial Designer: But uh are d Can you live with it ? Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Alright , if you think that that's the way it should {gap} {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah ?Industrial Designer: Y Yeah ,y y y y you said it was totally uh unusable .Project Manager: No {disfmarker} No ,Industrial Designer: But do youProject Manager: when I I my personal taste is that I want it to fall over my hands with a thick{disfmarker} But {disfmarker} In the market uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: But d you don't think this is completely unusable I guess . I think .Project Manager: No not totally .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Not totally , well {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} For me , I I wouldn't buy it . Let's say it like that .Industrial Designer: Yeah but of course y you are also human . We have to take uh {vocalsound} everyeveryone into account . So {disfmarker}Project Manager: No {gap} {disfmarker}Marketing: And you might be uh {disfmarker} You might be target customer .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Yes but{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Well uh who who else thinks like you ?User Interface: Mm .Industrial Designer: We don't know .Project Manager: Yeah , we don't know ,Industrial Designer: Maybe a thousand people,Project Manager: but that's uh that's that's that's more market research .Industrial Designer: or a million people .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So {vocalsound} let it be like this at uh at this moment.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Let it be .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay ?Industrial Designer: Alright . So that's that .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Uh any other suggestions?Project Manager: No , I think it's great .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: But what about the redesigning ?Project Manager: {vocalsound} Comes to that later .User Interface: Okay . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Umyou . Uh c You can uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Walter . {vocalsound} You can do the evaluation uh criteria on this ?User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} You're very personal again.Marketing: {vocalsound} Alright . Great .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: That's more useful than just {vocalsound} speaking .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound} {vocalsound} Well , this is just a short intro .Project Manager: Yes .Marketing: I'm going to do uh the ev evaluation . That's gonna be done at the end of seven point skill criteria .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: So I made a {disfmarker} I made a few questions on the hand of uh uh the impor most important requirements and trends .Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: And we have to look if our uh if our device uh is working correctly . Well , I put some questions in a Word file . See if I can find them . Uh uh uh uh mm .Project Manager: 'Kay .Marketing: Well{disfmarker}User Interface: Hmm .Marketing: I uh think you have all seen uh this kind of evaluation , so uh I don't have to explain it . Uh the first question is , uh is the device good-looking ? Because normal p uh mostpeople thought that um earlier devices were ugly ugly . Seventy five percent of them . So what do we think ?Industrial Designer: Well d we designed it , so of course we are very {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm .ProjectManager: Yeah , we're we're not quite uh objective about this .Marketing: Yeah {vocalsound} {disfmarker}User Interface: Well we designed it to be good-looking .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: No , I know , but{vocalsound} I have to uh evaluate it . So I have to take this questionnaire .Project Manager: To the customers ?Industrial Designer: So and we ha we have answer now ?Project Manager: To potential customers whohave to take this questionnaire ?Industrial Designer: Yeah . {gap}Marketing: Yeah {vocalsound} {disfmarker} Yeah , but I can't can sProject Manager: Nei . Oh no . I know , I know , I know .User Interface: Hmm.Project Manager: But um {disfmarker} Well {vocalsound} we can go , uh because of the time , uh pretty quick through this . Uh do we find it good-looking ? Well we think so . Uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah . Wedesigned it to be good-looking , so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I {disfmarker} Yeah , I think it {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah , but uh , you know {disfmarker} We dis we di {vocalsound} we designed it to beperfect .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: So {vocalsound} {disfmarker} But we have to be critic critical about it . And I have to uh take all these points and get a average at the end . Sowe {vocalsound} we know where we stand .Project Manager: Well , one .Industrial Designer: {gap}Marketing: 'Cause th there are some things we might have uh bi might have forgotten .Project Manager: Well so it'spoint four . Easy to find tIndustrial Designer: Well l well let's start with the beginning , just one by one . {vocalsound}Marketing: Right , so {disfmarker} Right . Uh is it good-looking ?Industrial Designer: Well , I guessuh I think uh {vocalsound} it's uh it's it's um pointed towards the youth of course , uh if you look at the design and and the colours and everything . {gap}Project Manager: Two . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Thatwas our target audience of course . But it's also not completely um {vocalsound} uh u unacceptable for older people I guess . Uh it's it's not f a device that {disfmarker}Marketing: The titanium might be uh f for olderpeople .Industrial Designer: Yeah , that's that's uh for older people , it's it's more that classical look . So {disfmarker}Marketing: It you put uh put a black front on it or something .User Interface: Hmm .IndustrialDesigner: Uh no . {vocalsound} I think {disfmarker} Yeah they like black of course , but I think they'll uh they they think uh the the titanium look of it is also {disfmarker} Uh I think it's also good for them , so I thinkwe both uh have uh consider considered uh the youth and also a bit older people . So I think it's very good-lookingMarketing: Right .Industrial Designer: and not only for youth uh young people .User Interface: I thinkwe shouldn't discuss any points points that long , because I don't know how how many points there are but uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: No . I totally agree .Marketing: Right .Industrial Designer: Yeah , thefourteen yeah .Project Manager: We we have to get get on , go through this .Marketing: Right , a number please .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Is it easy to t change channels ? Yeah well I think so.Marketing: So the last one is seven .User Interface: Um , no it's uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Easy to change channels ?Project Manager: No , not false . It's one .Marketing: Oh , sorry .User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah , right .Project Manager: Well uh two ? Y Well we have to go through it {gap} .Marketing: Change channels ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I think it's uh as easy as uh can be made .Uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Right .Industrial Designer: So I {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Yeah . You {disfmarker} How can you make it any easier ? {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}With two huge buttons .Marketing: The power , channel and volume buttons are easy accessible ?Project Manager: Yep .Industrial Designer: Yeah , huge is a {disfmarker} Yeah .Project Manager: Two .Marketing: Two ?Alright . The uh device is easy to find if you lose it ?Project Manager: Well , no . We didn't implement anything about that . {gap}Industrial Designer: D we d we don't we don't have uh that sUser Interface: Well it'seasier to find than a a normal black one or something ,Project Manager: {vocalsound} Well six then . {vocalsound}User Interface: because of the colour . But {disfmarker} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah . Six ? Right .Industrial Designer: Well we don't have the device that beeps uh when you lost it or so ,Project Manager: Are the functions easy to learn ?Industrial Designer: but um um{disfmarker}Project Manager: Well w I we do want we have a l f f less of an {disfmarker}User Interface: {gap} We have so few functions , so {disfmarker} Yeah .Marketing: Yeah , I agree .Project Manager: And thedevice R_S_I_ sensitive ?User Interface: Well , I should {disfmarker} I think two ,Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: because {vocalsound} the voice recorder is n not self learning . {vocalsound}Project Manager:


Project Manager: Okay . So , now um , {vocalsound} last time . Can you uh {vocalsound} push the button ? {vocalsound} One time please . So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I'm still the secretary . Now uh , I ask you topresentate the prototype . One of your {disfmarker} you two .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I don't care . {vocalsound}User Interface: Oh this , you mean ?Project Manager: Yes . The prototype.Industrial Designer: Huh ?User Interface: Yes , well uh this is it . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} This is it .Project Manager: Well , thank you . Uh , now {disfmarker}UserInterface: It's uh it's uh it's yellow . And uh , this is rubber . And and and this too . TheProject Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: the sides .Project Manager: Yes .User Interface: And the rest is hard plastic . And uh{disfmarker} We uh we had some uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker} We had a new idea {vocalsound} that that this can uh can be uh uh turned inside .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: And then it coversthe {disfmarker} these buttonsProject Manager: Okay .User Interface: until here or something .Marketing: Yes .User Interface: And then you can still use the the power button and the mute and the the joystick .ProjectManager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: So , you can still operate uh all the things . Because you don't always use the menu . And then it can break .Project Manager: Okay . And the buttons ?User Interface: Uh , well uh{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Big . {vocalsound}User Interface: Big buttons . And everything is blue , except the power button . And the mute . Of uh {disfmarker} yeah , and the mute and the the other button .{vocalsound} Yeah . Channel higher channel button .Industrial Designer: {gap} .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: And the joystick is for the volume and the channels .User Interface: Uh , yes . Yes ,IndustrialDesigner: Yes .User Interface: that's uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Very obvious .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Up is channel up . Down ischannel down . To the right is volume up . To the left is volume down .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay , so if joystick and L_C_D_ . What's the R_R_ {gap} d {vocalsound}User Interface: R_R_'s the l thethe the the company uh logo .Industrial Designer: The R_R_ ?Project Manager: Okay . Very good .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So , we have {disfmarker}Marketing: That's on the rub rubber part.User Interface: Uh , yes . Yes . That's about here .Project Manager: So , what they say on the side is put fashion there . Yes . It's good .User Interface: Oh .Project Manager: So , that's it . That's prototype .Marketing:Yeah ?Project Manager: Now , the finance . {vocalsound} We don't know if it's {disfmarker} th it {disfmarker} if it's okay .Marketing: Alright . {vocalsound}Project Manager: So , I'm gonna look .Marketing: Do we{disfmarker}Project Manager: We have {disfmarker}Marketing: Do we change the {disfmarker}Project Manager: Sorry ?Marketing: Do we change the the order ? Or are we going to uh ev evaluate it first ?ProjectManager: Finance is um {disfmarker} Yeah it's {disfmarker} No , first uh {disfmarker} Yes . We have to evaluate the product yet .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Sorry .Marketing: That's uh um {disfmarker} {gap}That can be none . Um , we gonna do the evaluation now , together . But I have uh a introduction how it works . So , it will come up . Uh-oh . Okay . Um , yeah . Well , we uh {disfmarker} uh , I have um thinked a fewevaluation uh criterias , uh based on um our marketing strategy , on uh the latest trends , on user preferences . Uh , we have a seven point scale from uh true , as well . To false , seven ? And on base of each c uhcriteria , we need to um give a rating . We can uh {disfmarker} Well , it look like this . But we gonna uh do it here , they said . {vocalsound} So , you hope found out how to do it with a Word document . Yeah . Okay ,yeah . Yeah . Um , well uh we have the Word documentProject Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Criteria .Marketing: You {disfmarker} {gap} So we open up that blank here .Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Think I can {disfmarker} Uh , what this just an example . So , this not very important . But um , if I can get a number in here . Hmm .Project Manager: No , it's okay .Marketing: Well ,uh we can't do that .Industrial Designer: I'll get it .Project Manager: Oh , it's okay .Marketing: Um , so uh you have to think of it as uh the remote control is techno technologically innovative . Uh , and then we have touh agree on the rating together . And in the end , we will c uh count an average of all rating . The first uh on each item .Project Manager: What do you think ?Marketing: Yeah , I think it's uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Uh , well technologically using , it's not uh {disfmarker} it doesn't contain many new features . Only the L_C_D_ . So , it {disfmarker} Um , I think I will give it a {disfmarker} yeah , yeah , yeah {gap} , a four . Hmm.Industrial Designer: I think the scroll-button is something also uh new . What uh {disfmarker} not anoth uh ,Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: not a lot of uh {disfmarker} a lot of uh remote controls have .I think technologically I'll give it an seven . Si six six .Project Manager: {gap} Yeah .Industrial Designer: Sorry , six .Marketing: So now i I think you uh see it {gap} um its statement .Industrial Designer: Oh , true orfalse .Marketing: And you {gap} true or false .Industrial Designer: Oh , uh I'll I'll give it uh a t a two .Marketing: And true is one . So , yeah . Yeah .Project Manager: Two .Industrial Designer: Sorry .Project Manager:You ?User Interface: Three .Project Manager: Me too . So it's a three .Marketing: 'Kay . Um , well {disfmarker} It's a one . {vocalsound} The first item . So , okay the second item . Um , this product is for all sorts ofcustomers .User Interface: Mm {disfmarker}Marketing: Well , it's a statement which uh I disagree with , because we uh really aim uh at at young market and I think the way it looked uh c uh totally in yellow , it's notuh really aimed for all customers . It doesn't look like that .Project Manager: So it's a {disfmarker}Marketing: That's uh a six .Industrial Designer: Five .User Interface: Mm , four .Project Manager: Yes , it's for theyounger g group . So it's uh half half of the people .User Interface: Yeah , but it's it's {disfmarker}Project Manager: So I think it's four .User Interface: Yeah . I mean it still has l large buttons and not m many buttons.Project Manager: No .User Interface: So {disfmarker} I mean , the colours are for young people ,Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .User Interface: butProject Manager: Yes . So , I think it's four .User Interface: older{disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Maybe version uh three point O_ uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} has other colours . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound} Yeah . Maybe .Project Manager: Okay . Give it a four .Industrial Designer: Four .Project Manager: Yep .Marketing: Four . Uh , okay . Mm .Project Manager: We put the fashion in electronics .Marketing:That's uh the motto of our company . Yeah , well do we do this with uh this product ? I um {disfmarker} Yeah . I think if we do this , as it's uh uh c uh it's really orientates on the design . Um , so I would give it a two.Industrial Designer: Me too a two , because only the battery is not uh techin uh technologically high standard . But the rest of it is . So , I think a two .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yes . Two .ProjectManager: Uh , I say uh a five .Marketing: Two .Project Manager: It's not fashion , it's new . It must be a fashion . But it isn't .Industrial Designer: It {disfmarker} it will be fashion .Project Manager: Yes . It w If it's not afashion we can put it in it . So , it must be a fashion . I think it's a five .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Okay .User Interface: Then make it ththree .Marketing: Okay . Yes , I'll think of that too .Project Manager: No . Oh .Industrial Designer: 'Kay . Three is okay .Marketing: Yeah , agree ?Project Manager: I use my feet though . {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Oh , we'll wait outside .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} A three .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah okay .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: The next element um is the product looks good . Well personally , I do not prefer a um remote controlthat's fully in yellow . So , I would give this a five .Industrial Designer: I give it a one . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {gap} . Yes , a one . I like it .Project Manager:Well , I say three . So , counting then is two and a half . {vocalsound}Marketing: We have to do our uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Say two .Marketing: Two or three ?Project Manager: Okay , two .IndustrialDesigner: Two .Marketing: Two . Okay .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: So , well we gonna do the next part . Uh , yep . Uh uh , the next statement . It has not too muchbuttons . Um , yeah , I I have uh said is not because uh a low number is better . And in the end we calculate an average . So , um that's why it's a negative in it . Um , well this one of our aims not have too muchbuttons . So , um uh did we uh do that ? Well , uh if we go to {vocalsound} uh this fashion , I {disfmarker} We still have caused uh a lot of uh buttons for the numbers . But you can you can go for that . And um thatway , you don't have a lot of buttons over . So , I would give this a two .Industrial Designer: One .Project Manager: {vocalsound} You ?User Interface: One . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Me too . One .Marketing: One. {vocalsound} Um , but {vocalsound} where where is the {gap} ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Next , six . It does not get lost easily .Marketing: So {disfmarker} Yeah , did we implement uh thesound ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: Yes . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Just a small thing . {vocalsound}Project Manager: No , we didnot . So , but can it get lost if it's such a thing ?User Interface: Yeah , but uh {disfmarker} Yeah .Industrial Designer: Ah . Yellow .Project Manager: I don't think so .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Lookslike a pistol .Project Manager: Yes . Not a not a normal shapes . So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Uh {disfmarker} It won't get between uh the pillows uh on the couch .Project Manager: No . It won't get lost.Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Uh {disfmarker}Marketing: It won't .Project Manager: A one ? {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah , o one .ProjectManager: Okay , a one .Marketing: One .Project Manager: Next .Marketing: Okay , um well we aimed for the younger market .Project Manager: {gap}Marketing: Uh yeah , did we achieve that . I think with the way itlooks and um it is designed , I will give it a two .Project Manager: Yeah me {disfmarker} {gap}Industrial Designer: Yeah . Me too .Project Manager: That was our target . Two .Industrial Designer: Two .ProjectManager: Yep .Industrial Designer: Yeah ? Yeah .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Right . There's a fancy look-and-feel .Marketing: Uh , yes . That that was uh , yeah , one of the most important things that uhTrendwatch said . I didn't uh say it in my presentation . But um , well does it have that ? I would say yes . So um {disfmarker} Well , let's also give this a two . TIndustrial Designer: I gave this a one because of therubber . It feels soft . Uh , it looks like a l uh uh b uh , a bit like a joystick . It's {disfmarker} Yeah . Yeah , f very fancy {gap} trendy .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Yes , a one .Project Manager: I say a two .It's a a bit personal . If it's fancy .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: So I think s two is better .User Interface: Yeah , okay .Industrial Designer: Two is okay .Marketing: Okay. Two .Industrial Designer: {gap} .Marketing: And um , then the last one I could think of , uh it goes with the latest trends .Project Manager: No , it's new . Innovation .Marketing: If we looked at the latest trends forthe uh younger people , and they ate uh fruit and vegetables , well it has a um a nice colour , uh well compared to food but we didn't uh {disfmarker} We did not paint any uh fruit and vegetable on it for something likethat .Industrial Designer: Oh .Marketing: So , I would {disfmarker} did not give this uh a one or two . I {disfmarker} We'll go for a three .Project Manager: {gap} .Industrial Designer: I go for two because uh the theshapes are still round . Uh , the latest trends are soft things , you know , like uh I said in my presentation . Uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yes .Industrial Designer: But the the colours are um basic , like yellow , red , umblue . Something what also younger people want . It's also a trend , so I'll give it a two .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Mm , three .Project Manager: Me too . Three .Marketing: A three .Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Okay . So um , come back to the presentation now . So , we find yourself there , and now we have to calculate an average rating .Project Manager: Effort is three , ten and twelve . Thirty , forty , fifty ,{gap} .Marketing: So , we will do that . Yes .Project Manager: Twenty one . So , it's uh two and three nine two and one third .Marketing: By nine .Industrial Designer: Two .Marketing: Yeah . Um , uh okay .{vocalsound} Two .Project Manager: Yep .Marketing: Come on . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh , nah . Okay .Marketing: So uh , that's a pretty low rating , I think .User Interface:{vocalsound} Yes .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So , it's good .Marketing: So , according to our uh own evaluation uh we did a good job . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .User Interface:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Thank you .Industrial Designer: Yeah , I think {gap} .Marketing: Oh . Nah . How am I doing ? Yes .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: And I closed your slide-show .Project Manager:Back to my uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Which one was the last for you ? Uh , dreaming .Project Manager: Yep . Next please .Marketing: Next . Finance .Project Manager: So , now uh we have a product . Very happy .But uh , is it cheap enough ? Um , so if uh {disfmarker} I'll have a look . We have a battery . One battery .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Cheapest there is .Project Manager: Okay , one battery .Electronics . Advanced chip .Industrial Designer: Expensive .Project Manager: Yeah it's the most advanced . Chip-on-print . We have that one .Industrial Designer: Well , it's the most advanced .Project Manager: Wehave the simple , regular and advanced .Industrial Designer: Advanced .Project Manager: We have the adva advanced . 'Kay , so uncurved or flat . Nope . Single curved or double curved ? We have double curved .{gap} {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Then we have plastic , wood , rubber.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {gap} we have half rubber , half plastic .User Interface: Mm , yes .Project Manager: No titanium . Special colour . Yes , yellow .Industrial Designer: Uh , yellow .{vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: Mm , yeah .Project Manager: Interface , push-button . Scroll-wheel , integrated scroll-wheel push push-button , or L_C_D_ display .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Project Manager: So , we have the L_C_D_ We have two scroll-wheels ? Or one ?Industrial Designer: One .Marketing: One .Project Manager: And it's not really a sIndustrial Designer: Joystick uh thing.Marketing: {gap} .Project Manager: Yeah , it's this one . Now , uh button supplement .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Special colour . We already {disfmarker} Uh , that's the {disfmarker} from the{disfmarker} for the buttons . The buttons are regular colour .User Interface: Mm , yeah .Project Manager: So , then uh {disfmarker} then then then then then then {disfmarker} Then {disfmarker}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound} We're not gonna make it . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh , no . It's too expensive .Industrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound} WhProject Manager: So , we have to change something .IndustrialDesigner: What what are the costs ?Project Manager: Fifteen Euros .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Fifteen .Project Manager: Yeah , well uh when we lose one scroll-wheel , it's okay . 'Cause we can't lose the battery. We can't lose the advanced chip . We can't lose the double curve . We have rubber , special colour .Marketing: {gap} . We would have uh nIndustrial Designer: A special colour .Project Manager: Oh , no , we{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Uh , I don't think it's a very special colour .Project Manager: No , it's uh {disfmarker} Sorry ?Industrial Designer: Yellow ? Uh , is it a special colour ?Marketing: For a remote control.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} What ?Marketing: I've {disfmarker} For a remote control , I think it is . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound}Marketing: If we would have uh uh normal buttonsinstead of uh the joystick . For up down left right .Project Manager: Um , then we uh lose two Euros . Then we have thirteen Euros . Half a Euro too much . Exactly the special colours . So {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: And what if we use only one sort of um {disfmarker} Um {vocalsound} just only plastic or only rubber ?Project Manager: That's one Euro .Industrial Designer: One Euro discount . {vocalsound}ProjectManager: So , I don't think that's good . Mm {disfmarker} I think we have to keep the L_C_D_ . If {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: If we change the joyst uh the joystick thing into a button up , button down , buttonright , button left .Project Manager: Yes . Then it's only thirteen Euros .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} And then we'll lose fifty cent in what ?Project Manager: So uh {disfmarker} yeah . Yeah . Then you have{disfmarker} Or you have to cut this off .Industrial Designer: Uh {disfmarker} uh-uh .Project Manager: Then it's not good anymore .Industrial Designer: No .Project Manager: So , wait . Okay . I'll have a look .{vocalsound} We {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: And if you say it's just a r uh normal colour {disfmarker} it's a normal colour , wh {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yellow rubber .Industrial Designer: No one will see it. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah , normal .Industrial Designer: Normal colour , and the the joystick away , and put the button up , button down , right , left .Project Manager: Uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer:And it's twelve Euros , I think .Project Manager: One minute , please . Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Is it maximum . Um {disfmarker} Yeah , it's normal colour . But if you lose the joystick , it's still uh an advancedchip ?Industrial Designer: No . Uh , no , no , no .Project Manager: Or it's then a regular ?Industrial Designer: Uh {disfmarker} Oh , wait wait wait .Marketing: The advanced chip was for the L_C_D_ wasn't it ?UserInterface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Oh yeah .Project Manager: So , the advanced is for the L_C_D_ and the regular for the joystick .Industrial Designer: Oh yeah . Yeah . Yeah , yeah .Project Manager: And what if welose the L_C_D_ ?Industrial Designer: If we lose the L_C_D_ , then we have an uh regular chip and no L_C_D_ .Project Manager: Yeah , regular chip . But {disfmarker} Is it a good design ?Industrial Designer: Uh ,yeah . Then you'll have to m uh see the menu on the television . And you don't have the L_C_D_ .Marketing: If uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So , the T_V_s has to uh {disfmarker} have to beup-to-date .Marketing: If we have the n no buttons {disfmarker} If we have we have uh not a joystick but buttons , we would have {disfmarker} uh , we have thirteen Euros ?Project Manager: Mm , yes .IndustrialDesigner: Yeah .Marketing: And then uh we move the the colour . What will that be ?Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Then it's okay .Industrial Designer: Huh . No knew that .Marketing: Yeah .{vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay , so no joystick . Oh no , but we {disfmarker} then we get push-buttons from half a Euro .Industrial Designer: Yeah , then it's twelve Euro fifty , then it's okay .Project Manager: Uh ,yes , yes , yes , yes . No joystick . Push-buttons . No special colour . Twelve and a half Euros . Then it's okay . So , we have to change that a little bit . And you cannot use the red and green button . Because if you give


Project Manager: {vocalsound} So um nice to see you again . Uh . So , uh . Tod uh for this meeting I will take the notes and do the minutes . Uh so we will see our three presentations . Um we will start with the uhManager Expert wi who will talk about uh user re requirements , whats user needs and what it desire for this devi device .Marketing: Okay , can I have the laptop over here , or ?Project Manager: Yep . Oh , I don't thinkso . I think you have to come here .Marketing: Okay . Have to get up . {vocalsound}Project Manager: I dunno . I think it should stay .Marketing: Excuse me .Industrial Designer: Yeah , that's it .Project Manager:{gap}Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay .Project Manager: Should stay in the square here . {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Oh , maybe .Marketing: Okay , so basically I'm gonna present some findings ofa study we conducted uh into uh what users want in this remote control .Project Manager: Oh , you can put it here . Oh that's okay , it's jusMarketing: Um so first of all we {disfmarker} what we did is we um conducteda an experiment with a hundred test subjects . Um we put them in a in our um usability laboratory and got them to , you know , um play with remote controls , and also to complete , after they'd done that , to completea questionnaire uh to tell us what they like and what they don't like in remote controls . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} So basically um the major things we found out was that um basically users don't like the look and feelof of most remote controls that are currently on the market . Um they , you know , seventy five percent of the people we we uh did the experiments on , found that rem remote the remote controls that they'd used inthe past were ugly . Completely ugly . Um they they didn't match the operating behaviour of the user , that is , you know , the the way users use remote controls when they're watching T_V_ . Um , that the layout ofthe remote controls didn't match they way that they used it . Um and thirdly they say that w half of the users that we um tested said that they only used ten percent of the buttons that uh are on remote controls . Umso we collect we also some collected some usage statistics uh based on how these test subjects were using their remote control . And from this we basically came up with the figure that the channel buttons , the channelselection buttons are the most {disfmarker} by far the most used buttons on the remote control . Um and you can see they're used a hundred and sixty eight times per hour on average , um , while the user's watchingT_V_ .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Um the closest button that was used , well the cl the button that was used that was closest to the channel button was the teletextbutton , um which was used fourteen times per hour , followed by the volume button , which was four times per hour , um , all the other , all the other um buttons , such as ch um audio and picture selection umconfiguration buttons and things were used , you know , l approx well less than or equal to one times per hour . Um we also asked users um which buttons had the most importance to them , you know , which whichbuttons they felt were the most important buttons on on the remote control . And basically they came {disfmarker} they said the channel , volume , and power buttons had the highest relevance to users , um note thatonly power was very infrequently used , it only had a b a a fr usage frequency of about one times per hour , but users ranked it as having a very very high relevance . Um and the audio and picture settings had a very{disfmarker} that well the users thought that um w the audio and picture settings were very uh weren't very important to them um , and they used them very infrequently a as well . {vocalsound} So we asked userswhat what um frustrates them the most about um current remote controls . And fifty percent of the users said that uh what frustrates them is losing the remote control um somewhere in the room and not being able tofind it . Um {vocalsound} they also said that it um it takes a lot of time to learn a new remote control , especially when there's many buttons and it's a , you know , a c a a unintuitive interface . Um and then thirdly ,they {disfmarker} some users commented on the fact that the the you know the way that you have to hold and press buttons on a remote control ar are bad and um cause u repetitive strain injury . {vocalsound} Wealso asked some users about some specific features that they'd like to see in the {disfmarker} on the remote control . In particular , do they want an L_C_D_ d display , and secondly , do they think speech recognitionuh is a useful feature to have on a remote control .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Um basically our findings are that um amongst a younger age groups uh the answer is umv overwhelmingly yes . They wantthese features , they want these high technology features .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Um for instance , ninety one percent of pe of people aged between fifteen and twenty five said yes , they wantthese features . Whereas um {vocalsound} the the trend was as users as users um became older and older uh they were less likely to want these sort of features in a um in a remote control . So I guess it depends onwhere we're focusing our our market . Um and as our company motto is putting fashion in electronics , um I think we're focusing on the younger younger um target demographic , and so maybe we should think aboutadding these sort of high technology features into our remote control .Project Manager: Hmm .Marketing: That's my dic that's my presentation . Thank you .Project Manager: Thank you .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: So , um maybe now we can talk about a user interface and uh about the technical function of this device . So uh Pet Peter , can you talk say something about that?Industrial Designer: Well , okay , yeah . Yeah , but the user user interface is responsible .Project Manager: No .User Interface: B you think uh I I'm User Interface Manager .Project Manager: Ah .Industrial Designer:Okay , so {gap} .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Sorry , I'm {disfmarker} Sorry . Sorry .User Interface: {vocalsound} Okay . Okay .Project Manager: {gap}User Interface: If I could go therewith this cable .Industrial Designer: You're scaring me with L_C_D_ man . And speech recognition in remote unit , it will be very e expensive .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah , it's true , but , you know , they're featuresthat users want ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: so it's {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: And our production cost of twelve fifty Euros per per unit is fairly high I think ,User Interface:{gap}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: so I think we can afford to to add these sort of features into our remote .Industrial Designer: At least we have couple of months t to work on it so so it will be cheaper finally .{vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Sh okay . {gap}Marketing: It is true .User Interface: Where's delete button ? Okay . Oh I'm sorry . {vocalsound} {gap}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager:{gap}User Interface: {gap} Okay .Marketing: That's the wrong one , I think .Project Manager: Yeah , it's still Bob Morris .User Interface: Oh . Presentation three ?Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah you should haveput yes .Industrial Designer: Because you cancelled it . Yeah .Project Manager: Click on yes .User Interface: Oh . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {gap} yeah .Industrial Designer: Yep .User Interface: Okay , so here ismy presentation about technical function design . I will talk about different components and s of system and how they react together . Okay , uh , first what is a remote control ? Simply it's a device , as you know , foruh , for sending some commands by some waves to uh another device to to tell different commands uh with this device . And the main idea we don't use any cable and we can rec react simpler with the device . Uh i ithas different blocks , different blocks . Uh first is remote control have sh ha should have some electric circuits uh making interface with uh keyboard and uh r reading uh keyboard and reading the keyboard uhcommands . And then inter then make uh these keyboard commands , uh in interpret these int uh keyboard commands . And then there should be uh an electronic circuit making uh electronic signals according to thesecommands and uh finally there is a transmitter which is a cord or a a diode making uh making uh waves to transmit through the air and uh uh this air this uh wave uh will be received by the by the other device like atelevision or whatever , to uh r to realise the command . Okay , {vocalsound} uh about {disfmarker} what I found about uh different uh these different blocks are uh , usually there are two different methods uh to{disfmarker} for designing a remote control . They are based on infra-red uh waves or uh uh radio waves .Industrial Designer: You still want me the presentation .User Interface: There are two different uh uh solutionsI mean . This is uh this can be uh uh the the differences the th between different kind of waves , infra-red or radio waves . And uh also as uh I understood , and uh I think it was a part of uh Bob , uh uh presentation ,people prefer to have uh to have uh the remote control with less button . So for the electronic part , working and interfacing , with button , we should we should try to t try to design a remote control having uh somesome simpler buttons or some rolling buttons to just to just to search between different options , and showing o something on T_V_ and putting less lesser stuff on the uh on the remote control . And uh personalpreferences , uh uh uh uh certainly a remote control with {disfmarker} uh working with radio waves is uh preferred because uh you can pr you can take it in any direction and you don't need to tune it any way . And uhuh again , using bigger buttons and less number of buttons are also preferred , as I see . Okay . That was my presentation .Marketing: Okay . I have a question .User Interface: Uh-huh .Marketing: Do you think radiowaves um will interfere with other appliances in the home ?User Interface: Uh , I don't think so , because uh we can make uh we ca we can make this wave in a specific frequency . So they can be in a range which is notinter interfering with the {vocalsound} with other devices inside the home .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: So can we use any any frequency ?Industrial Designer: Yeah , it should be okay {gap} .Project Manager:We have the right to use any frequency ?User Interface: Uh no but as I know , there is a range for uh for this uh f for for uh for this stuff , for designing this circuit . We can we can we can tune our uh transmitter towork in this range , and for this range we don't need to ask any permission .Project Manager: Okay . And what happen with uh radio waves when two neighbours have the same {disfmarker} have our remote control ,for example ? And so do they have the same frequency , or ?User Interface: Uh for this I'm not uh I I don't know the solution , but one solution can be something like putting uh p password or something inside the wave, so the only your T_V_ can understand itProject Manager: Okay . A kind of identification {gap} ,User Interface: Yeah , identification code inside the {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah f {vocalsound} uh I knowabout this , since it's my {disfmarker} it's exactly my field , so .Project Manager: okay . So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: It's uh kind of handshaking , uh , when starting to {disfmarker} uh when you start tocommunicate with the your T_V_ then then it's like an handshaking protocol with your your remote .Project Manager: Yeah . So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So so if two two devices are trying to go tocommunicate with the T_V_ set then the the the one which has the more energy in the wave is chosen . Well it can be a problem sometimes , but most of the time it works okay .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface:The password may simply {disfmarker} uh or uh i identification code may simply solve this problem . A specific uh remote control has a specific fIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah but we we don't have to think uhabout this because I think as a function designer that we will use the already made uh circuits which we probably bu buy . It's worth to buy .Project Manager: Hmm .Industrial Designer: And they have these problemssolved so . So we don't have to think about these .User Interface: Mm .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: So , maybe you can talk about the function , and{disfmarker}Marketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: Yes . I have only a couple of things because I had {disfmarker} I struggled a bit with the software that I'm supposed to use in this uh uh in this company . I was usedto use Linux before , so . But I tried to tried to break through this {gap} too , I guess .Project Manager: Open .Industrial Designer: Mm . Ah .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay . {vocalsound} Howto make it big ?Project Manager: Slide show .User Interface: Five . {gap}Industrial Designer: Slide show . Okay , thanks . {vocalsound}Project Manager: It should work , so you can {gap} .Industrial Designer: Okay .Oh so I will speak about working design . That's the first slide . Uh what uh I have to do ? A look at what the other company {disfmarker} Okay so uh presently I am looking what is possible to use , what circuits to useand stuff like that because uh I didn't work uh with these uh circuits so far so I have to look what what is a v a v available on the market for for the communication {disfmarker} for the I_R_ circuits and so on , so I'mcurrently looking what is available on the web . And uh I wanted to ask you m maybe afterwards , after after our discussion , if we have some contacts in some companies , so , which can report on what is going onthere , so , I would be glad if you can tell me about them .Project Manager: Mm . Yeah .Industrial Designer: So , you know . Uh , okay findings , that's {gap} the point that I'm working on currently but uh so far I I wasuh looking what what are the blue circuit , I mean radio wave {disfmarker} radio frequency circuits are available now ,Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: but the prices I read are high . So , I know that uh theuser interface people and these speak about radio frequency waves because you can you can uh you can make the T_V_ do what you want even if you are in the bathroom or so on ,User Interface: Mm-hmm .ProjectManager: Hmm .Industrial Designer: but you know , when you are not close to the T_V_ you probably won't need to to change the program and so on and so I am I am voting for s to stick to the um infra-red controlinstead of R_W_ but we will discuss it later maybe . Uh . Components to use , I'm not exactly sure what I will use for the design of the circuit . It depends uh on whether we will use the L_C_D_ and mainly the speechrecognition ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: because the speech rec Yeah ?Marketing: Are we um are we planning to take an off the shelf an O_E_M_ component for the radio wave circuit , or are weplanning to construct our own circuit board ?Industrial Designer: No no no no no . This we this we buy I think , because it's rather cheap nowadays and it's not worth to construct ourselves .Marketing: Okay s So we justbuy a circuit board and {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Exactly .Marketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: But I'm not sure about the circuit which is responsible for speech recognition . This I prefer that we should makeourselves .Marketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: But it depends whether we take a decision to use it . Same thing . It's fairly expensive to use these circuits . So , speech recognition {disfmarker} well , L_C_D_ it's okaybecause it's common nowadays to use L_C_D_ ,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: so I agree on using any kind of L_C_D_ , less buttons good for me as a as a designer of the circuit .Project Manager:Yeah .Industrial Designer: But the speech recognition we have to compare whether the price and the {disfmarker} what does it offer , you know .User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: Yeah . So what do you think wouldbe the price , it would be out of range ?Industrial Designer: Yeah , I'm {disfmarker}Project Manager: Or it would be maybe feasible ?Industrial Designer: Oh . I was not thinking too much about the price . But if we usethe L_C_D_ uh even the radio frequency communication with the T_V_ set and the backlight and uh related things like the photo diodes and stuff , it should be okay . If we decide to use the speech recognition , then weprobably could struggle but we'll see afterwards .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: It depends of you if if the M_E_ or U_I_D_ ,Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: I'm sorry about the names , I don'treally know , uh want to have it like in metal or in plastic , these things , it it depends on you not {disfmarker} Because the the the electronic device's price is not not so big in comparison to to the overall shape andstuff like that , so .Marketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: We will discuss it afterwards . Oh , this is nothing . This is just my notes on what to use . And uh my personal preference is yes , I would like also preferably touse R_W_ circuit , but from the point of view uh of the design and price , I would stick to I_R_s . That's my opinion . Uh I mean if infra-red uh circuit not not the radio frequency .Project Manager: Why ? Because it'ssimpler ?Industrial Designer: Because because the the range where you can use it is fair .Project Manager: Yeah . Mm .Industrial Designer: It's okay I think . And the price is fairly cheap for this .Project Manager: Okay .It's a a price matter .Industrial Designer: Well , depends .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Jus just the price .Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: Otherwise I don't care what I put there because it'sthe chip which I buy or which we buy .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: So I I I think it's o y o {vocalsound} .Marketing: What how much more expensive ? Are we talking three times more expensive ?ProjectManager: {gap}Industrial Designer: Well , three to three to five .Marketing: Or ten times more expensive ? Or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: N not ten times ,Marketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: but it dependswhat what we {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah yeah . That's still a lot . I think it's it's probably not worth spending the extra money ,Project Manager: Hmm . Yeah .Marketing: because I mean all the other remote controlson the market have infra-red , so people don't expect anything other than infra-red .Industrial Designer: {gap}Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: So it's not worth spending the extra money.Project Manager: Well I {gap} , oh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Th they are used to use it when they can see the T_V_ so , I don't know .Project Manager: On the other side , we want to have something new.Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: You know , whereMarketing: Yeah .Project Manager: we want to to have something new and So we I think we should still thinking about it . But maybe {gap} .Marketing: But I think ,based on my usability studies I th I feel that users are {disfmarker} prioritise the look and the feel and the trendiness above , you know , the difference between infra-red or radio waves .Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: So I think we're better off spending money in the usability phase .Industrial Designer: {gap} You the user interface , and management man , uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay . Yeah.User Interface: Mm .Marketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: Uh okay , that's it for me .Project Manager: Okay , thank you Peter .Industrial Designer: 'Kay .Project Manager: So um I have to inform you I receive an emailfrom the management bon board today and they have new requirements for the for the remote control . UmMarketing: Mm .Project Manager: first um , they say that's uh about something about t teletext . Uhapparently it becomes from {disfmarker} according to them it becomes out of date . Out-dated . And uh {disfmarker} Because of the internet popularity and everybody has internet at home , and actually it's not usefulto have teletext . Um . So I think we can avoid the teletext . Um the second thing is uh they suggest that that we should uh use the remote control only for T_V_ , not for D_V_D_ and other devices , because it make it{disfmarker} it makes it's too complex and uh because we have not much time for this project we should stay on T_V_ on the {disfmarker} only specific T_V_ remote control .Industrial Designer: I agree .{vocalsound}Project Manager: The third {vocalsound} the third one is uh about the the the image of the company . So um uh we should we should keep uh {disfmarker} The the product should be recognisable . Uh ,


Lynne Neagle AM: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee. We've received apologies for absence from Suzy Davies and there is no substitute. Janet Finch-Saunders isjoining us from the Assembly offices in Colwyn Bay via video conference. Can I ask Members if there are any declarations of interest, please? No. Okay. Item 2, then, this morning is a post-legislative scrutiny session onthe Higher Education (Wales) Act 2015. I'm very pleased to welcome Kirsty Williams AM, Minister for Education, and Huw Morris, who is director of the skills, higher education and lifelong learning group in WelshGovernment. Thank you, both, for attending, and thank you for the paper that you provided in advance. I will just start the questioning by asking whether you are planning to repeal the 2015 higher education Act, orwill it be amended by the post-compulsory education and training Bill?Kirsty Williams AM: Thank you very much, Chair. I'm very pleased to be with the committee again this morning, although it's in slightly unusualcircumstances. As a piece of post-legislative scrutiny, this was a Bill that was taken forward by a different Minister in a different administration, but I think it is really valuable work in the context of the question you justset out: what can we learn from the implementation of this piece of legislation as we move forward with our reform journey and with this Government and my proposals to introduce a new commission for tertiaryeducation? There is much, at the moment, that lies within the 2015 Act that we will look to bring forward into the new legislation, but there are certainly experiences—and I'm sure we'll come on to some of the evidencethat has been received about what's worked, what perhaps hasn't worked—that we all want to reflect on and be mindful of as we take forward the new Bill, including the report of this committee as part of it. So, it is ourintention that this Bill will be superceded by the new PCETR Bill.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. We've got a series of questions now from Siân Gwenllian.Sian Gwenllian AM: Good morning. Do you believe that theAct has fulfilled all the Government's objectives? Where are the weaknesses?Kirsty Williams AM: Diolch yn fawr, Siân. As I've said, it's a bit difficult to place myself in the mind of the previous Minister when thislegislation was first envisaged and then taken through. You'll be aware that there were four main reasons for the introduction of the Bill: around regulation of institutions in Wales; safeguarding the contribution made topublic good arising from Welsh Government's financial support for the sector; maintaining a focus on fair access; and preserving and protecting the principle of institutional autonomy. I think the evidence that has beenreceived by the committee to date shows that there are different views about the effectiveness of whether all four strategic aims have been achieved. I think those strategic aims are still really, really important andcertainly will underpin our thought process going forward, but we have to recognise the higher education and research Bill across the border in England, the implementation of new student support measures in Wales, aswell as the report that was done by Ellen Hazelkorn, I think, means it is appropriate that we move forward with different proposals, not just regulation of the HE sector but the post-compulsory sector as a whole. We willlook to see what we can do to strengthen or whether there is more that we need to do to achieve those four objectives, because I think those four objectives are still very, very relevant. But we have to have legislationnow that is fit for the circumstances we currently find ourselves in and, hopefully, futureproofs us for how we want to see the sector develop in the future.Sian Gwenllian AM: Do you feel perhaps that the legislation itselfhasn't been strong enough, and that you then have had to drive some of these objectives through the annual remit letter, rather than through legislation, and that's why the strengthening is required?Kirsty WilliamsAM: Certainly, I see the remit letter as a really, really important way in which national priorities and the priorities of an elected Government can be clearly stated, communicated to the Higher Education Funding Councilfor Wales, and then HEFCW use their powers to ensure that that happens. So, certainly, I see the remit letter as being a very important mechanism for ensuring, as I said, that those national priorities are clearlyarticulated, and then change happens.Sian Gwenllian AM: Has the current legislation been framed around institutional autonomy so that it's not possible for institutions to fulfil any national outcomes, and is that goingto be an element of the new Bill?Kirsty Williams AM: Well, certainly, the 2015 Act contains numerous provisions that protect universities' privileges and autonomy. And that's really important, and those are principlesthat I am committed to in any legislation that I bring forward. We'll certainly be looking to see how we can carry those protections into the forthcoming Bill, but, at the same time, we do have to ensure appropriateregulation and accountability of institutions for their public funding and the privileges that they enjoy. And I think there are a number of ways in which that can happen. We have a very positive working relationship withthe Higher Education Funding Council for Wales, and I am very fortunate to have a very positive working relationship with the sector. The remit letters are a really important way in which we can lay out those nationalpriorities. I don't think there's anything in the legislation per se that prevents those national priorities being articulated and being acted upon.Sian Gwenllian AM: I don't think that's what HEFCW has said in theirevidence. They've said that the Bill has been framed in a way where it's not possible for institutions to fulfil any requirements. You're talking about the remit letter; maybe you need to have that discussion there, but, interms of the Bill itself, you can't make them fulfil any national outcomes. Shouldn't there be a discussion looking to move in a direction where there are national outcomes being set through legislation, because there ispublic money going into that?Kirsty Williams AM: Well, I don't know whether we need national outcomes through legislation, because those national priorities, potentially, will change over time. What is really important,and what we will be seeking to do in the new legislation, is look to move to a system of outcome agreements. So, there is a very clear expectation that the commission will have, in regulating the sector, andco-ordinating and funding the sector, to create a system of outcome agreements, where those outputs will reflect national priorities, and that's one of the things that we've consulted on, and will look to take forward inthe new legislation.Sian Gwenllian AM: Okay. That's clear enough. What about private providers? The Act, or the Act as it stands, makes it a requirement for a regulated institution to be a charity, and that means it's notpossible to regulate alternative private providers under the Act, even though they can provide higher education in Wales. What is your view on this, and will the new legislation continue with the requirement of being acharity?Kirsty Williams AM: Okay. So, I think, first of all, it's important to make the distinction between the scale of private providers, and what could be termed as 'unregulated providers' in the Welsh system, asopposed to the English system. And I think that's a really important distinction to make. So, currently, under the current legislation, unregulated providers can only access Welsh Government student support if they'redesignated on a case-by-case basis. So, we do have a circumstance where—and a process in place, to manage this. So, we have a specific designation policy, which is operated on our behalf by HEFCW. Only sixorganisations were designated on a case-by-case basis in the 2018-19 academic year, so the scale here is small. Three of those were further education colleges. So, when we talk about a private provider, perhapspeople would have a view of a private university, but, actually, three of those were FE colleges, which we would all be familiar with. And the three private providers were the Centre for Alternative Technology, thetraining arm of the Church in Wales and the Newport and District Group Training Association. All three of those are actual charities. So, in order for their courses to be specifically designated, the three crucial questionsthat those providers have to answer are: quality—is what they’re providing to students of a good quality; the financial viability of the institution, again, to try to protect the interests of the students who may findthemselves embarking on a course in an institution that isn’t viable; as well as their contribution to private—sorry, not to private good—public good. And we are considering how that part of the sector will be regulatedin the forthcoming legislation. But, Huw, I don't know if there's anything else to add?Huw Morris: Well, just to say that there are a very small number of private providers, as the Minister has outlined, and, in comparisonwith England, where I think the last figures said that there were between 300 and 400 private providers in England, you get a sense of the differences that exist there. And, if you look at what happened over recentyears, it has been those small private providers across the UK who have been most financially challenged and a number of them have stopped their operations, with consequences for the students. So, we’ve been keento put students at the front of things to make sure that the institutions that they’re enrolling with are strong and have good quality.Sian Gwenllian AM: Okay. So, what you're saying is that you will continue with acharitable status, or not—Kirsty Williams AM: At this stage—Sian Gwenllian AM: —or are you still thinking about it?Kirsty Williams AM: Well, at this stage, I think the charitable status will continue to be an importantpart of what we will take forward.Sian Gwenllian AM: Just turning finally to part-time fees and postgraduate fees, do you have an intention to regulate this part in the new legislation?Kirsty Williams AM: I have to saythat, at present, we've not identified an urgent reason to designate these courses as qualifying courses for the purposes of a fee limit. And there are a number of reasons for that. Actually, the current Act—the 2015Act—does not permit the fee regulation of postgraduate courses, other than PGCE courses for IT purposes. In the case of part-time courses, I'm currently content that fee levels are not exceeding the amount of studentsupport made available by the Welsh Government. So, I think we are, at this moment, relaxed about that, and there are some difficulties around deciding and introducing fee limits on postgraduate courses. I thinkwhat's really important to me is the success at the moment of attracting people to postgraduate and part-time study in Wales, as a result of our reforms to student finance. But, clearly, we'll need to keep that underreview. But, at this current moment, the Act precludes fee regulation in some areas and there's not a pressing policy need that we've identified to date.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Thank you. Okay, we're going to move onnow to some questions about the level of ambition in the higher education Act and any lessons for the PCET Bill, from Janet Finch-Saunders.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you. To what extent has the 2012 universityfunding system limited Welsh Government’s policy leverage over the sector, and how has the HE Act addressed this beyond the levers offered by fee and access plans?Kirsty Williams AM: Of course, the Act wasintroduced as a direct result of the changing scenario around finance and the different ways in which, because of the reduction in HEFCW's budget, the level of influence that HEFCW would be able to exert overinstitutions through the imposition of terms and conditions of funding—. So, the Act was introduced in part to address that shift in influence and the Act also has provided HEFCW with a range of new powers ofintervention and sanctions in the case of non-compliance by institutions. Personally, I wholeheartedly believe that tertiary education providers should contribute to national goals and outcomes as part of what I'ddescribe as a civic mission. I'm determined that any legislation that I bring forward and any commission that I establish will be empowered to enable that to happen through its regulatory and funding powers. Of course,the funding situation has shifted again now because of the introduction of what is commonly known as the Diamond reforms, but our new system of student finance does again shift the parameters of influence thatHEFCW or any new tertiary commission could have. But, as I said earlier, it's not to say that institutions have had a free reign. We have been able to use the remit letter and our relationship with HEFCW to progressagendas that we would want to see. So, for instance, you'll be aware, in my remit letter, I am concerned about issues around how people working in the sector are paid. We've been able to successfully see allinstitutions sign up to becoming living wage employers, all institutions sign up to the Welsh Government's code of ethical procurement. So, it's not to say that the Act has meant that we've had no influence, but thereare opportunities now, because of the change in financial circumstances once again, to look at that in any forthcoming legislation.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you, Minister. Do you share HEFCW's views on thebenefits of having national targets to get institutions to address national priorities? Is this something you wish you could do?Kirsty Williams AM: Well, it's not something I wish I could do; I think that we're doing it.Self-praise is no recommendation, but, because of the working relationship that we have, I think we're seeing some success in using the remit letter to influence national outcomes. So, I've just talked about living wage;we're also using our remit letter to drive transparency over senior leaders' pay, the gender pay gap within institutions. For instance, as part of this Government's commitment to improving mental health, we've beenable to use the remit letter and some funding to be able to drive change and some improvements in mental health in the higher education sector. These are national priorities and we're acting upon them and we're usingthe multiple levers we have at the moment to engage in universities. And, I have to say, universities have risen to that challenge, and I'm very grateful to them for doing that.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you. Arethere plans to give the proposed new PCET funding body more effective policy levers to align the sector to the social, economic and civic needs of Wales? And, if so, how will this be done?Kirsty Williams AM: Well, as Isaid in answer earlier, I'm determined that we ensure a sense of civic mission for the entirety of the sector, including our institutes of higher education. You'll be aware, Janet, that, in the consultation exercises thathave been undertaken by the Government so far on PCET reform, we will be introducing more formal outcome agreements, whereby institutions might be given by the commission very clear expectations of how they'reexpected to contribute to national priorities.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thanks. We've heard that the HE Act, by focusing on individual institutions, did not encourage collaboration, even for widening access activity. Wasthis a missed opportunity and how will this be taken forward in the PCET Bill?Kirsty Williams AM: I think we can strengthen our sector by closer collaboration. I think what sets us apart in Wales is that this Governmentis determined to create a legislative regime and a regulation regime that encourages collaboration and co-operation, which is in stark contrast to the marketisation and the competition that we see being regulated forand legislated for across the border in England. That's one of the reasons why we are going to introduce the new PCET reforms—to create collaboration, not just between different higher education institutes but actuallyacross the sector. So, this is a prime opportunity where we can create a framework that demands and encourages collaboration, not just, as I said, in between individual institutions but across the entirety of the sector.We're doing that because that means we can avoid duplication, we can fill gaps that there currently are and we can create a system that allows for a seamless passage for students to move between the different partsof post-compulsory education that are currently available, where, sometimes, those students find barriers.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, Janet?Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you—that's great, thank you.Lynne Neagle AM:We've got some questions now around HEFCW's powers of intervention from Dawn Bowden.Dawn Bowden AM: Thank you, Chair. We received substantial evidence from HEFCW suggesting that powers were inflexibleand hard to use—I think HEFCW called them 'threatening'—saying that they make sanctions difficult to use and so on. Are you satisfied that HEFCW's powers are useful on a preventative day-to-day basis?Kirsty WilliamsAM: If I may disagree slightly, I don't think their powers are frightening. It's very clear what powers are available to HEFCW, and they're certainly more than just the ability to, maybe, lean on an institution. Clearly,there is a system by which there is the ability to, you know, ramp up and escalate levels of intervention in the sector by HEFCW, but I certainly wouldn't describe them as inflexible or not having weight.Dawn BowdenAM: I think they were saying it was difficult to use for swift interventions—they found it a bit cumbersome. They explained to us that they often take informal measures or actions in their role as regulator, and they'veexplained that the small size of the sector enables good relationships to be developed. How can such measures work in the tertiary education body when there clearly will be many more than the 10 providers?KirstyWilliams AM: Well, looking ahead to the new Bill, I would want to see and be very keen to ensure that there are sufficiently flexible—did you use the word soft—and soft regulatory powers that the commission couldexercise. Those powers, for instance, could include the ability to offer advice and guidance, rather than, maybe, punitive interventions, and powers to undertake enhanced monitoring of institutions to ensure compliancewith regulatory conditions. So, I would expect the commission to be able to have a series of abilities to intervene, from the soft, flexible type, which is non-punitive but actually allows people to go in and supportinstitutions, through to something that would be, as I said, more punitive, if they felt that an institution was in danger of not providing quality or financial failure.Hefin David AM: Can I just come in there, on the pointthat was made? The issue that seemed to me to come from HEFCW and from the universities is that the dial seems to have only three steps. So, rather than having a graduated series of actions that they can take, itseems to step from—what did he call it—a 'meeting without coffee' to—Kirsty Williams AM: That's a very HEFCW thing to say.Hefin David AM: —potentially institutions going bankrupt, and there don't seem to be manysteps in between that. I'd invite you to say whether you'd like to remedy that in future.Kirsty Williams AM: I think, as I said at the beginning of the session, this is why this post-legislative scrutiny is useful, because wecan reflect on that feedback. As I said, I would expect to be able to ensure that the commission had a range of powers that could address—from that soft power and those early conversations to being able to, as I said,issue, perhaps, advice and guidance to an institution, so there would be a more graduated escalation. Huw, is there anything else that I've missed out?Huw Morris: Just to build on what the Minister has said, there's arange of ways in which we interact with all institutions that are going to be in the tertiary sector, and some of that is about providing information. So, HEFCW provides information—it sends around circulars, it producesreports and it holds events. There's staff, management and leadership development activity, which can create a culture amongst the leaders of institutions, but also amongst their governing bodies, to help them movein a particular direction. We would hope that's in the direction of the civic university approach that the Minister has outlined. We use those mechanisms and informal interactions with FE college principals, with thework-based learning provider network, with sixth forms and others, and we would want to see, I hope, in the tertiary sector some alignment of those things. When things go badly wrong, there are a range ofmechanisms. I think what stands behind HEFCW's comments is that before we had a loan-based system of student finance, there was a system of block grant allocations and conditions could be attached to those grant