Grad C: Hmm . Testing channel two .Grad E: Two , two . Grad C: Two .Grad E: Two . Oh .Grad D: Hello ?Grad B: Hmm ? Yeah Thank You . OK Well , so Ralf and Tilman are here .Professor F: OK . Great . Great .Grad B:Made it safely .Professor F: So the {disfmarker} what w we h have been doing i they would like us all to read these digits . But we don't all read them but a couple people read them .PhD A: OK .Professor F: Uh , wannagive them all with German accents today or {disfmarker} ?Grad B: Sure .Professor F: OK .Grad B: OK and the way you do it is you just read the numbers not as uh each single , so just like I do it .PhD A: Mm - hmm.Grad B: OK . First you read the transcript number . Turn .Grad D: OK , uh {disfmarker} What 's {disfmarker}Professor F: OK . Let 's be done with this .PhD A: OK .Professor F: OK . this is Ami , who {disfmarker} Andthis is Tilman and Ralf .PhD A: Hi . Uh - huh . Nice to meet you .Grad D: Hi .Professor F: Hi . OK . So we 're gonna try to finish by five so people who want to can go hear Nancy Chang 's talk , uh downstairs .PhD A:Hmm .Professor F: And you guys are g giving talks on tomorrow and Wednesday lunch times ,PhD A: Yes .Grad D: Mmm .Professor F: right ? That 's great . OK so , do y do you know what we 're gonna do ?Grad B: Ithought two things uh we 'll introduce ourselves and what we do . And um we already talked with Andreas , Thilo and David and some lines of code were already written today and almost tested and just gonna say wehave um again the recognizer to parser thing where we 're working on and that should be no problem and then that can be sort of developed uh as needed when we get {disfmarker} enter the tourism domain . em wehave talked this morning with the {disfmarker} with Tilman about the generator .PhD A: SGrad B: and um There one of our diligent workers has to sort of volunteer to look over Tilman 's shoulder while he is changingthe grammars to EnglishPhD A: Mm - hmm .Grad B: because w we have {disfmarker} we face two ways . Either we do a syllable concatenating um grammar for the English generation which is sort of starting fromscratch and doing it the easy way , or we simply adopt the ah um more in - depth um style that is implemented in the German system and um are then able not only to produce strings but also the syntactic parse uhnot parse not the syntactic tree that is underneath in the syntactic structure which is the way we decided we were gonna go because A , it 's easier in the beginningPhD A: Mm - hmm .Grad B: and um it does requiresome {disfmarker} some knowledge of {disfmarker} of those grammars and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and some ling linguistic background . But um it shouldn't be a problem for anyone .Professor F: OK So Thatsounds good . Johno , are you gonna have some time t to do that uh w with these guys ?Grad E: Sure .Professor F: cuz y you 're the grammar maven .Grad E: OK .Professor F: I mean it makes sense ,Grad E: Yeah.Professor F: doesn't it ? Yeah Good . OK . So , I think that 's probably the {disfmarker} the right way to do that . And an Yeah , so I {disfmarker} I actually wanna f to find out about it too , but I may not have time toget in .Grad B: the {disfmarker} the ultimate goal is that before they leave we {disfmarker} we can run through the entire system input through output on at least one or two sample things . And um and by virtue ofdoing that then in this case Johno will have acquired the knowledge of how to extend it . Ad infinitum . When needed , if needed , when wanted and so forth .Professor F: OK that sounds great .Grad B: And um also umRalf has hooked up with David and you 're gonna continue either all through tonight or tomorrow on whatever to get the er parser interface working .Grad D: Mmm .Grad B: They are thinning out and thickening outlattices and doing this kind of stuff to see what works best .Grad D: Mmm , yep .Professor F: Great . So , you guys enjoy your weekend ?PhD A: Yes , very much so .Grad D: Yeah , very muchProfessor F: OK , before{disfmarker} before you got put to work ?Grad D: YeahProfessor F: Great . OK , so that 's {disfmarker} Sort of one branch is to get us caught up on what 's going on . Also of course it would be really nice to know whatthe plans are , in addition to what 's sort of already in code .PhD A: Yes .Professor F: and we can d I dunno w w was there uh a time when we were set up to do that ? It probably will work better if we do it later in theweek , after {pause} we actually understand uh better what 's going on .PhD A: Yes .Grad D: Hmm .PhD A: Yeah .Professor F: So when do you guys leave ?PhD A: Um we 're here through Sunday ,Grad D: OhPhD A: soAll through Friday would be fine .Professor F: Oh , OK , so {disfmarker} OK , So {disfmarker} so anyt we 'll find a time later in the week to uh get together and talk about {pause} your understanding of what SmartKomplans are .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor F: and how we can change them .PhD A: Yes . Sure .Professor F: Uh ,Grad B: Should we already set a date for that ? Might be beneficial while we 're all here .Professor F: OK ?um What {disfmarker} what does not work for me is Thursday afternoon . I can do earlier in the day on Thursday , or {pause} um {pause} most of the time on Friday , not all .Grad B: Thursday morning sounds fine?Professor F: Wha - but , Johno ,PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor F: what are your constraints ?Grad E: um Thursday afternoon doesn't work for me , but {disfmarker}Grad B: Neither does Thursday morning , no ?Grad E:Uh Thursday morning should be fine .PhD A: OK .Professor F: Eleven ? Eleven on Thursday ?Grad E: I was just thinking I w I will {pause} have {pause} leavened by eleven .Professor F: Right . Right . This is then out ofdeference to our non - morning people .PhD A: Mm - hmm . OK . So at eleven ?Grad D: Hmm .PhD A: Thursday around eleven ? OK .Professor F: Yeah . And actually we can invite um Andreas as well .Grad B: Uh he willbe in Washington , though .Professor F: Oh that 's true . He 's off {disfmarker} off on his trip already .Grad B: but um David is here and he 's actually knows everything about the SmartKom recognizer .Professor F:Thilo . OK well yeah maybe we 'll see if David could make it . That would be good .Grad B: OK so facing to {disfmarker} to what we 've sort of been doing here um well for one thing we 're also using this room to collectdata .PhD A: Yeah obviously .Grad B: um um Not this type of data ,PhD A: Oh , OK .Grad B: no not meeting data but sort of {disfmarker} sort ah our version of a wizard experiment such not like the ones in Munich butpretty close to it .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Grad B: The major difference to the Munich ones is that we do it via the telephonePhD A: OK .Grad B: even though all the recording is done here and so it 's a {disfmarker} sort of acomputer call system that gives you tourist informationPhD A: Mm - hmm .Grad B: tells you how to get places . And it breaks halfway through the experiment and a human operator comes on . and part of that is sort oftrying to find out whether people change their linguistic verbal behavior when first thinking they speak to a machine and then to a human .PhD A: Yeah .Grad B: and we 're setting it up so that we can {disfmarker} wehope to implant certain intentions in people . For example um we have first looked at a simple sentence that " How do I get to the Powder - Tower ? " OK so you have the {disfmarker} castle of HeidelbergPhD A: OK.Grad B: and there is a tower and it 's called Powder - Tower .PhD A: Oh , OK . Yeah .Grad B: and um so What will you parse out of that sentence ? Probably something that we specified in M - three - L , that is @ @{comment} " action go to whatever domain , object whatever Powder - Tower " .Grad D: Mmm .Grad B: And maybe some model will tell us , some GPS module , in the mobile scenario where the person is at themoment . And um we 've sort of gone through that once before in the Deep Mail project and we noticed that first of all what are {disfmarker} I should 've brought some slides , but what our {disfmarker} So here 's thetower . Think of this as a two - dimensional representation of the tower . And our system led people here , to a point where they were facing a wall in front of the tower . There is no entrance there , but it just happensto be the closest point of the road network to the geometric center Because that 's how the algorithm works . So we took out that part of the road network as a hack and then it found actually the way to the entrance .which was now the closest point of the road network toPhD A: Yeah .Grad B: OK , geometric center . But what we actually observed in Heidelberg is that most people when they want to go there they actually don't wantto enter , because it 's not really interesting . They wanna go to a completely different point where they can look at it and take a picture .PhD A: Oh , OK .Grad D: Hmm .PhD A: Yeah .Grad B: And so what uh uh a s yous let 's say a simple parse from a s from an utterance won't really give us is what the person actually wants . Does he wanna go there to see it ? Does he wanna go there now ? Later ? How does the person wanna gothere ? Is that person more likely to want to walk there ? Walk a scenic route ? and so forth . There are all kinds of decisions that we have identified in terms of getting to places and in terms of finding information aboutthings . And we are constructing {disfmarker} and then we 've identified more or less the extra - linguistic parameters that may f play a role . Information related to the user and information related to the situation .And we also want to look closely on the linguistic information that what we can get from the utterance . That 's part of why we implant these intentions in the data collection to see whether people actually phrase thingsdifferently whether they want to enter in order to buy something or whether they just wanna go there to look at it . And um so the idea is to construct uh um suitable interfaces and a belief - net for a module thatactually tries to guess what the underlying intention {pause} was . And then enrich or augment the M - three - L structures with what it thought what more it sort of got out of that utterance . So if it can make a goodsuggestion , " Hey ! " you know , " that person doesn't wanna enter . That person just wants to take a picture , " cuz he just bought film , or " that person wants to enter because he discussed the admission fee before ". Or " that person wants to enter because he wants to buy something and that you usually do inside of buildings " and so forth . These ah these types of uh these bits of additional information are going to be embeddedinto the M - three - L structure in an {disfmarker} sort of subfield that we have reserved . And if the action planner does something with it , great . If not you know , then that 's also something um that we can't really{disfmarker} at least we {comment} want to offer the extra information . We don't really {disfmarker} um we 're not too worried .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Grad D: Hmm .Grad B: I mean {disfmarker} t s Ultimately if youhave {disfmarker} if you can offer that information , somebody 's gonna s do something with it sooner or later . That 's sort of part of our belief .Grad E: What was he saying ?Grad B: Um , for example , right now Iknow the GIS from email is not able to calculate these viewpoints . So that 's a functionality that doesn't exist yet to do that dynamically ,PhD A: Mm - hmm .Grad B: but if we can offer it that distinction , maybesomebody will go ahead and implement it . Surely nobody 's gonna go ahead and implement it if it 's never gonna be used , so . What have I forgotten about ? Oh yeah , how we do it ,Professor F: Well th uhGrad B:yeah that 's theProfessor F: No no . It 's a good time to pause . I s I see {pause} questions on peoples ' faces , so why don't {disfmarker}PhD A: OhProfessor F: let 's {disfmarker} let 's {disfmarker} Let 's hear{disfmarker}PhD A: Well the obvious one would be if {disfmarker} if you envision this as a module within SmartKom , where exactly would that Sit ? That 's the dGrad B: um {disfmarker} so far I 've thought of it assort of adding it onto the modeler knowledge module .PhD A: OK , yeah .Grad B: So this is one that already adds additional information to theGrad D: Hmm .PhD A: Makes perfect sense . Yes .Grad D: Hmm , ah .GradB: but it could sit anywhere in the attention - recognition I mean basically this is what attention - recognition literally sort of can {disfmarker}PhD A: Well it 's supposed to do . YeahGrad D: Mmm .Professor F: That 'swhat it should do .PhD A: Yeah .Professor F: Right ,PhD A: Yeah .Professor F: yeah .Grad D: Huh .Grad B: Yeah .PhD A: Well f from my understanding of what the people at Phillips were originally trying to do doesn'tseem to quite fit into SmartKom currently so what they 're really doing right now is only selecting among the alternatives , the hypotheses that they 're given enriched by the domain knowledge and the um discoursemodeler and so on .Grad B: Yeah .PhD A: So if {disfmarker} if this is additional information that could be merged in by them .Grad B: Yeah .PhD A: And then it would be available to action planning and {disfmarker}and others .Grad B: Yeah . the {disfmarker}Professor F: let 's {disfmarker} let 's That w OK that was one question . Is there other {disfmarker} other things that cuz {pause} we wanna not Pa - pass over any {pause}you know , questions or concerns that you have .PhD A: Well there 're {disfmarker} there 're two levels of {disfmarker} of giving an answer and I guess on both levels I don't have any um further questions .Grad D:Mmm . Mmm .PhD A: uh the {disfmarker} the two levels will be as far as I 'm concerned as {pause} uh standing here for the generation moduleGrad D: Mmm .PhD A: and the other is {disfmarker} is my understandingof what SmartKom uh is supposed to beProfessor F: Right .PhD A: and I {disfmarker} I think that fits in perfectlyProfessor F: So {disfmarker} well , let me {disfmarker} Let me s {pause} expand on that a little bit fromthe point of view of the generation .Grad D: Hmm .PhD A: Yeah .Professor F: So the idea is that we 've actually got this all laid out an and we could show it to you ig um Robert didn't bring it today but there 's a{disfmarker} a belief - net which is {disfmarker} There 's a first cut at a belief - net that {disfmarker} that doesn't {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} isn't fully uh instantiated , and in particular some of the {disfmarker} thecombination rules and ways of getting the {disfmarker} the conditional probabilities aren't there . But we believe that we have laid out the fundamental decisions in this little spacePhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor F: andthe things that influence them . So one of the decisions is what we call this AVE thing . Do you want to um access , view or enter a thing .Grad D: Hmm .Professor F: So that 's a a discrete decision .PhD A: Mm - hmm.Professor F: There are only three possibilities and the uh {disfmarker} what one would like is for this uh , knowledge modeling module to add which of those it is and give it to the planner .PhD A: Mm - hmm .ProfessorF: But , uh th the current design suggests that if it seems to be an important decision and if the belief - net is equivocal so that it doesn't say that one of these is much more probable than the other , then an option is togo back and ask for the information you want .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor F: Alright ? Now there are two ways one can go {disfmarker} a imagine doing that . For the debugging we 'll probably just have a{disfmarker} a drop - down menu and the {disfmarker} while you 're debugging you will just {disfmarker} OK . But for a full system , then one might very well formulate a query ,PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor F: give itto the dialogue planner and say this , you know ar are you know you {disfmarker} are you planning to enter ? Or whatever it {disfmarker} whatever that might be . So that 's {disfmarker} under that model then ,There would be a {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} um a loop in which this thing would formulate a query ,PhD A: Yes .Professor F: presumably give it to you . That would get expressed and then hopefully you know , you'd get an answer {pause} back .PhD A: Yep .Professor F: And that would of course {disfmarker} the answer would have to be parsed .Grad D: Mmm . Yep .Professor F: right and {disfmarker}PhD A: Yes .Professor F:OK so , {pause} th {pause} that uh , We probably won't do this early on , because the current focus is more on the decision making and stuff like that .PhD A: Yep .Professor F: But While we 're on the subject I justwanted to give you a sort of head 's up that it could be that some months from now we said " OK we 're now ready to try to close that loop " in terms of querying about some of these decisions .PhD A: Mm - hmm . Mm- hmm .Grad D: Hmm .PhD A: Yep . So {disfmarker} my suggestion then is that you um look into the currently ongoing discussion about how the action plans are supposed to look like . And they 're currently umAgreeing or {disfmarker} or in the process of agreeing on an X M L - ification of um something like a state - transition network of how dialogues would proceed . and {disfmarker} The {disfmarker} these um transitionnetworks uh will be what the action planner interprets in a sense .Professor F: Hmm . D did you know this Robert ?Grad B: uh Michael is doing that , right ?PhD A: Well uh Marcus Lerkult is actually implementing thatstuff and Marcus and Michael together are um leading the discussion there , yeah .Grad B: OK .Professor F: So we ha we have to get in on that .PhD A: Yep .Grad B: Mm - hmm .Grad D: Mmm .Professor F: because umpartly those are like X - schemas .PhD A: Definitely .Professor F: the transition diagrams .Grad B: Hmm .Professor F: And it may be that {disfmarker} that um we should early on make sure that they have the flexibilitythat we need .Grad B: Hmm . But they uh Have I understood this right ? They {disfmarker} they govern more or less the {disfmarker} the dialogue behavior or the action {disfmarker}PhD A: Mm - hmm .Grad B: It 'snot really what you do with the content of the dialogue but it 's So , I mean there is this {disfmarker} this {disfmarker} this nice interfGrad D: uh , No , it 's {disfmarker} it 's also a quantrant uh uh {disfmarker}GradB: i Is it {disfmarker}Professor F: So there 's ac so there {disfmarker} th the word " action " , OK , is {disfmarker} is what 's ambiguous here .Grad D: I think . Hmm .PhD A: Yes .Professor F: So , um one thing is there's an actual planner that tells the person in the tourist domain now ,PhD A: OK .Professor F: per tells the person how to go , " First go here ,Grad D: Mm - hmm .Professor F: first go there uh , you know , take a bus " ,whatever it is . So that 's that form of planning , and action , and a route planner and GIS , all sort of stuff . uh But I think that isn't what you mean .PhD A: No . No , in SmartKom terminology that 's um called afunction that 's modeled by a function modeler . And it 's th that 's completely um encapsulated from th the dialogue system . That 's simply a functionality that you give data as in a query and then you get back fromthat mmm , a functioning model um which might be a planner or a VCR or whatever . um some result and that 's then {disfmarker} then used .Professor F: Well , OK , so that 's what I thought . So action he action heremeans dia uh speech ac uh you know dialogue act .PhD A: Yeah , yeah . Yeah , in that {disfmarker} in that senseGrad B: Mmm .PhD A: yes , dialogue act ,Professor F: Yeah .PhD A: yeah .Professor F: Um , I think tha Ithink it 's not going to {disfmarker} I think that 's not going to be good enough . I I don what uh {disfmarker} what I meant by that . So I think the idea of having a , you know , transition diagram for the grammar ofconversations is a good idea .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor F: OK ? And I think that we do hav definitely have to get in on it and find out {disfmarker} OK . But I think that um when {disfmarker} so , when you get tothe tourist domain it 's not just an information retrieval system .PhD A: Mm - hmm . Clearly . Yes .Professor F: Right ? So this i this is where I think this {disfmarker} people are gonna have to think this through a bitmore carefully .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor F: So , if it 's only like in {disfmarker} in the {disfmarker} in the film and T V thing , OK , you can do this . And you just get information and give it to people . But whathappens when you actually get them moving and so forth and so onPhD A: Yep .Professor F: Uh , y y your {disfmarker} I d I think the notion of this as a self contained uh module you know th the functional module that{disfmarker} that interacts with {disfmarker} with where the tourism g stuff is going {comment} probably is too restrictive .PhD A: Yep .Professor F: Now I dunno how much people have thought ahead to the touristdomain in thisPhD A: Probably not enough , I mean an {disfmarker} another uh more basic point there is that the current um tasks and therefore th the concepts in this ac what 's called the action plan and what 's


Project Manager: Okay . Hello everyone . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Hi .User Interface: Hi .Marketing: Hi .Project Manager: Um how uh how we doing ?Industrial Designer: Yeah , good .ProjectManager: Uh first we going uh over the minutes of the last meeting , more or less .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Um in the last meeting uh the marketing manager had presented uh her method ofworking , meaning gathering i suggestions from everyone to see how she best could market uh this this product at the {disfmarker} within the budget uh that was given . Uh in general {vocalsound} the idea is that itshould be something that is not difficult to use . Um it's also an item that people lose a lot . So we should address that . And , of course , it should be something s s that is very simple to use . In addition to that to makeit sell , of course , uh the marketing manager w wishes that it be very attractive ,Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: or like she says put some sizzle into it in one way or another so that the people are buying itnow because , in particular with smaller items , that's a very important fact , 'cause um if they say , well , I go home and think about it , that won't work . Um also mentioned was it should be uh {disfmarker} it shouldhave a very short learning curve . And maybe it could be sold by using a slogan .Industrial Designer: Hmm .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Our technical manager has then said that she feels it should have achipMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: that has infra-red bits and it has an interface controls w interface that controls the chip . Therefore , messages uh will be controlled in the same manner . There should beextra features like lid buttons , maybe a beep . If too many buttons are pressed , mm uh uh child lock um and uh maybe a display clock so that people could um {disfmarker} you could see the time , you know , whatshow they want to watch . Also mentioned was uh maybe different shapes . So the components of the thing should be button , bulbs , infra infra-red bulbs , battery , chips , wires , and maybe some kind of a holder uhfor the for the uh item . Francino who is our umUser Interface: Interface designer .Project Manager: interface designer um uh has mentioned that the {disfmarker} that it , of course , should have an on-off button , andalso has mentioned an interesting feature that it should have maybe a channel lock . Particularly with maybe small children that they couldn't uh watch a channel that is undesirable . It should be compact . Her personalfavourite was it should be T-shaped . And maybe have an anar alarm-clock . And the material should possibly be not of non-allergic nature . Uh the different systems uh that exist are infra-red or radio-waves . Uhmaybe it should have uh electri electrici electricity saving feature .Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: And {vocalsound} even possibly a timer to {disfmarker} so that people can program{vocalsound} their favourite uh uh program on th right from the remote .User Interface: Yes .Project Manager: Uh are we all in agreement that that's about what we discussed last time ? Okay .User Interface: Yes.Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah , I think that pretty much is it . Yeah . Mm-hmm .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay , then we {disfmarker} I'm looking for three presentations . And uh I don't knowwhether the order matters much uh , I don't I don't think so , so whoever w wants {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay , I can start first .Project Manager: Yeah , okay .User Interface: Okay . Now my slide , please .{vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay , your slides . Okay . Oh , come on , close already .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: And that's number two , right ?User Interface: Three .Project Manager: Three .UserInterface: Participant three . Yes . Okay .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Now as an interface designer , I would give more emphasis on the interface , how the remote looks like so that it is sellable , it isattractive to customers . Next , please . Okay . Now the function of a remote is to send messages to the television . This messages could be uh switch on-off message or switch to next channel message or swapping thechannels or switching onto a particular channel , like you can have the numbers one , two , three , four , up to nine .Project Manager: Nine what ? Nine channel uh switches ?User Interface: Pardon me ?Project Manager:Nine channel switches ? Is {disfmarker} Yeah . Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .User Interface: Yes , nine numbers . And then you have swapping of uh buttonProject Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: by which {disfmarker}using which you can swap the channels if you don't want to see the third channel you can swap it to the fourth channel or vice versa . Then it should have a next button , and next button channel by which you can keepon uh v uh mm eh scrolling the channels one by one .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Going to the nex next .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Next slide , please .Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Then you should have a button which should which ca which can be used for increasing or decreasing the volume .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Then , there should be a button which cangive subtitles for a particular program which is going on a television . For example , if you are watching a French program and you would like to have a subtitles in English , then there should be a channel which cantrigger this mechanism in the television so that the user can see uh the {gap} the subtitles on the screen .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Then there should d uh there should besome buttons which can control features like the colour , colour of the picture , the contrast , sharpness , brightness of the picture . Now there should be a memory switch . There should be a mute button . Suddenly if ifif uh uh viewer he gets a telephone call , and if he want he doesn't want to switch off the uh T_V_ , but he he can reduce the sound , he can bring the volume down and he can watch {disfmarker} he can uh{disfmarker} while talking he can watch the T_V_ . Now the most important feature I would like to have in my remote would be the speech recognition feature . It's an integrated progra programmable sample sensorspeaker unit . So a remote can be th can be uh designed which can have the voice recognisers , you can record your own voiceProject Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: which can be recognised by as voice recogniserin the television , for example , if you want to see {disfmarker} we if you want to see the ninth channel if you say just say ninth channel , uh th now the the {disfmarker} uh yeah , the remote will {disfmarker}automatically it will switch to the ninth channel .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .User Interface: So the T_V_ will have some recogniser which will recognise the user's voice andaccordingly it will change its functionalities .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .User Interface: So this is one of the very important feature a remote control can have . So this is one one of the interface which canbe created .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: A very simple interface which has all the t uh uh important features .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Then , please , next slide .Project Manager:Mm-hmm .User Interface: Then , these are some of the remotes which are different in shape and colour , but they have many buttons .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: So uh sometimes the user finds it verydifficult to recognise which button is for what function and all that . So you can you can design an interface which is very simple , and which is user-friendly . Even a kid can use that .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .UserInterface: So can you go on t t uh to the next slide . Yeah , so this is one of the interface or one of the remote which has this vi voice recogniser .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Andthis has multi-purpose use , it can be used for T_V_ , it can be used for cable-satellite , it can be used for V_C_R_ , D_V_D_s and audio . And this has in-built voice recogniser .Project Manager: {vocalsound}UserInterface: Can you go on to the next slide ? Yeah , now this is an interface for a chil uh for a remote uh uh which a child can use .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Uh this is user-friendly , it's very attractiveand uh children can use it as well as they can play with it . And this comes with different colours , different shapes .Industrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: And this this uh child uhinterface has minimum buttonsMarketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: and all the important uh buttons are there in this small , compact , attractive child interface . Next slide , please . Now this is a big over-sizedremote which cannot be misplaced or it's impossible to misplace .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: You don't know me.User Interface: {vocalsound} {gap} {vocalsound} {gap} this . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I could lose that in a minute . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}UserInterface: So this is {disfmarker} {vocalsound} No this is a very big , you cannot {vocalsound} misplace it anywhere .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} So this is a jumbo universal remote controland it's impossible to im misplace or lose . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: This i this is one such interface which can be created . {vocalsound} And the personalpreference {vocalsound} uh would be a spe uh uh to incorporate speech recognisers uh which will respond to user's voice for a particular uh function .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Right .UserInterface: Thank you , that's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Okay , thank you very much . Uh any comments on uh her presentation ?Marketing: Well , um looks like we still have quite a choice of things outthere .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Um what uh {vocalsound} I'm {disfmarker} No suggestion's bad .User Interface: Mm yes .Marketing: But uh we're gonna have to narrow it down a little more . I don'tthink that we can get uh {disfmarker} The T-shape is good , the child one is good , the too big to misplace , I think it's just funny .User Interface: Okay . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Um I don't think that'sgonna be our impulse purchase at the checkout counter .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah , I I th I think {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay . {gap} {vocalsound}Marketing: It's it's gonna be alittle bit too unwieldy .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: No , I think the these are her presentations , but uh as far as the decision making we getting to that after afterMarketing: Yeah mm . Mm-hmm .Have to come back to that later . Okay .User Interface: We can .Project Manager: but if {disfmarker} I just wanted to know whether anybody had any any anything to add to her presentation .Marketing: No , I think herpresentation was good , and she really explored all the options . Yeah .Project Manager: Mm right . Mm-hmm . Ho who wants to go next um ? Mm-hmm . Okay ,Industrial Designer: Yeah , maybe .Project Manager: andyou {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Participant two .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh okay .Industrial Designer: Uh the next one , sorry .Project Manager: Oops .Industrial Designer: It's it was the old one.Project Manager: The components design .Industrial Designer: Components .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Okay .Industrial Designer: Um this time I'm I'm going to um concentrate more on the components and thetechnical side of the remote controller design .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Uh , can you go on to the next slide , please .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: I have just brief {vocalsound} uhdown few uh components which we require for the remote control uh construction .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Uh the first one is case to keep all the components like integrated circuit , battery ,etcetera , etcetera , it's like {disfmarker} Uh it can be a plastic one , hard plastic , so that it can be strong , even if you just uh uh , {vocalsound} you know , if you {vocalsound} {disfmarker} if it falls down , then itdoesn't {vocalsound} break . So it should be strong .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: And uh uh there are no harmful materials used in that . And it should be recyclable .Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Uh and uh {vocalsound} ,Marketing: Mm-hmm . Good point .Industrial Designer: yeah , and also uh using of colouring compon components like uh if we want to have different colours , blue , red ,green , so uh uh we have to use uh some colouring compone compone components . And uh the second important thing is uh uh uh integrated circuit .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Uh which uh we canuse a highly sophisticated one because it's like the it's like the heart of the remote controller . If it is not efficient then everything wi is going to be uh like um the lef ess less efficient so it {disfmarker} you should{disfmarker} we should have a highly sophisticated one . And it should be resistant to high as well as uh low temperatures . Suppose if it is thirty-eight degrees outside forty degrees outside , it should it should uh{vocalsound} be able to re uh resist the uh temperature uh uh highs and uh high temperatures and low temperatures . And uh it should be with uh {vocalsound} um {disfmarker} equipped with timer and alarm facility. And the uh other component we should {disfmarker} uh we have in the remote controller is a resistor uh which is like uh uh i it is very very much important for the electricity uh flow through {vocalsound} throughthrough the uh remote controller and uh also a capacitor which is a b which is a m I think it's it's like a battery , capacitor . Can you go on to the next slide , please ?Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Uh a diode , a transistor , a resonator , these are all this uh technical uh electri electronic compons uh components which are {disfmarker} which we have to use in a remote controller . A battery uh, I would like to suggest one thing uh if we {disfmarker} uh if we will be able to make a res rechargeable battery then we sh we need not go for a high performance battery , even if it is a low performance battery it ca itcan't l it can't charge much .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: It it it's not a high voltage battery . Then also we can {disfmarker} If it is a rechargeable one , then uh people can use it for a long time , so in thatway we can cut cut the cost , but w uh uh that we have to make the battery as rechargeable one . And we we have a circuit board uh in a remote controller . Can you go to the next slide , please . And how it works ,how the remote controller works .Project Manager: Go away .Industrial Designer: Thank you . Uh when you press a button , when you do that , you complete a specific connection that means when you when you pressa button there will be a s a small circuit underneath the button , and it will send some signals through the wires ,Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and then uh the chip will send start connection and knowsthat which button is pressed . Suppose you have pressed channel one button , number one you have pressed , then the uh chip will know that the number one button was pressed .Marketing: {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: It pros produces a mors morse code line signal specific to that button . Every button , every individual button , has its own morse code . Suppose uh the uh user has pressed butto button one , then it will havea spe the circuit will generate a specific morse code to b {vocalsound} that that button , and the transistor will amplify the signal and send then to the L_E_D_ which translates the signal into infrared light . Like{vocalsound} you have got a signal by pressing a button . That's a d a morse code has been generated by the integrated circuit . Now , that signal , that morse code , has to be amplified by the transistor . That is theuse of transist transistor we {disfmarker} which we use in the remote controller . It will amplify the signal and it will send it to the L_E_D_ and which translates the signal into an infra infrared bits . The sensor on theT_V_ can see the infrared light , and seeing the signal seeing the signal re it reacts appropriately , that when it sees the amplified mo morse code signal , then it will uh it will uh know which uh what what action it has touh do . Then it will do the appropriate action . So uh this is how the remote controller works .User Interface: It works .Industrial Designer: Can you go to the next slide , please . Yeah , I have few pictures . When youlook at the uh um remote controller uh it's it's {vocalsound} it {disfmarker} this is a normal remote controller . And {gap} to the next slide , please .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: And where we had a a fewbuttons and all . And uh if you open the remote controller you have this circui circuit board and few electronic components ,Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: like you can see a chip there which is havingeighteen pins ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: and also a capac uh a capacitor , three resistors and also a resonator uh um mm {disfmarker} yeah , and di and a diode transistor.Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: The electronic components {disfmarker} uh all of the electronic components have all those uh things like a chip and d {vocalsound} diode transistors an Yeah , di umcan y uh you can see the T_A_ double one eight three five labelled uh chip um .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Mm yes .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Yes .Industrial Designer: Uh you can also seethe uh uh the green {disfmarker} two green things are uh these are {disfmarker} they are {disfmarker} they are resistors ,User Interface: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: and uh just beside that you can see atransistor , and a uh uh cylinder shape , uh that one is a capacitor . Uh and also there are uh {vocalsound} um resistors {disfmarker} uh sorry , ther there is a diode .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer:Can you go {disfmarker} go on to the next slide .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: So uh this is the circuit board . The green one is a circuit board . Actually , uh building a circuit bo board is pretty prettyuh easy and also it's a it's a l l inexpensive . Uh it's it costs less than what you print on a paper , because uh {vocalsound} uh when you {disfmarker} when you are building uh some circuits {disfmarker} some um uhcircuits and also wires , it's it's better to go for printing , because uh you can build these kind of k circuit boards on a on a bulk and it's just printing , nothing like uh , you know , you don't need to use wires and all .UserInterface: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: It's not exactly wires we are using . It's just printing something on a board .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Tha tho those prints will acti act as wires and ci uhcircuits . So th that green uh thing is a circuit board , and also you can see uh there are b s like uh um access for buttons , like when you press a button , the circuit under the button will be activated uh th it will it willhe get some signals from it and it will uh it will ch its ch se send a signal {disfmarker} signals to the , yeah , um integrated circuit .User Interface: Transmit .Industrial Designer: Can you go to the next slide , please . Uhso this is {disfmarker} these are the circuits un underneath the buttons . Uh can you see the black uh , round marks ?Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: They they are the circuits .Marketing: Yes.Industrial Designer: Next , please . And um like uh we have uh designed uh before we have seen some uh few things like {vocalsound} instead off buttons we have some scrolls . Uh b but a b a push-button requires asimple chip underneath it , but whereas a scroll wheel requires normally a regular chip which is a higher price range . Like for s scrolls we have to go for a sophisticated and and k uh {vocalsound} uh uh full{disfmarker} a complete chip .Marketing: Okay .User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: Uh and a as energy source we offer a basic battery , a more ingenious uh hard dynamo , um a kinetic provision of energy ,more than what is that you shake casually to provide energy . So that also we can have in a battery , uh or we can use solar sells . Uh .Marketing: Hmm , that's interesting .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Uh yeah uh theproduct can be de delivered into different cases . Uh usually , the cases and card flat {vocalsound} that w we see usually uh d uh a normal remote controller .User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: Um .Project


Project Manager: Hello , uh this meeting we are it's fo should be focused on the conceptual design of the remote control .Marketing: Hello .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Hello .Project Manager: Um thegoal of this meeting is to reach a decision at the end on the concept and I think the last time we talked about an a lot and we had a rough idea of what is going to be , but uh in th at the end of this meeting we have toto reach a decision . So , uh we will have again three presentation , from all of you , and uh I hope it will be fast because I would like to have time to for long discussion and and decisions . So , who wants to start ?Okay .User Interface: I sMarketing: Okay .User Interface: No , no , you you can start .Project Manager: So start , uhMarketing: Okay , I'll start . Can you open my presentation ,Project Manager:{vocalsound}Marketing: please .Project Manager: Uh . {gap}Marketing: I'm number four .Project Manager: This one ?Marketing: Trend . Yep . Can you pass the mouse , please . {vocalsound} Oh okay , that's fine.Project Manager: Turn .Marketing: Okay . Um so basically I just want to presented to you {disfmarker} present to you some recent results we've had from um looking at uh um some remote control market researchand some fashion trends around the world . Um the fashion trends we got from talking to our our contacts in the fashion industry based in Paris and Milan . {vocalsound} Um {vocalsound} so f from our market researchbasically we've come to the conclusion that a fancy look and feel , um as opposed to a functional look and feel , is our number one priority . Um fancy is is is is the , you know , highest priority .Project Manager: Hmm.Industrial Designer: Hmm .Marketing: Secondly um that our remote control needs to be techn technologically innovative . Um so this is t number two priority but it's two times less important as the fancy criteria . Umand third thirdly the easiness of use is is the um is is important as well , but again two times less important as the technologically innovativeness of the remote control . {vocalsound} From our f fashion people in Parisand Milan , um we've discovered that this year um fruit the fruit and vegetable motif will be the most important thing in in clothes , shoes and furniture . So , {vocalsound} I'm pretty confident that our remote controlfits into the furniture category . And also um the feel of material this year um is expected to be spongy .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Um so hopefully our remote control reflects that s in some way .IndustrialDesigner: What does it mean , spongy ?Marketing: Uh sort of um squishy .Industrial Designer: Like soft , or something ?Marketing: Um . Yeah soft ,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: like a uh like a sponge.Project Manager: Like a sponge . {vocalsound} Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound} I don't know . Yeah .Industrial Designer: Okay . I will see .Marketing: Um so in conclusion , we need a our remote control needs to besomething that's really fancy , um has lots of technolog tech technology in it . {vocalsound} Um somehow would be good to have it related to fruit and vegetables with a spongy feel .Project Manager:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: And that it's easy to use and from our last meeting our you know Fabian told us that w you know one of the requirementsis that we have to reflect the look and feel of our {disfmarker} of th the Real Reaction company . Um .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah , uh yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound} That's it.Project Manager: Easy to use , is it uh a as much as important than technology or fancy thing . It's less important , right ?Marketing: Less important .Project Manager: Yeah yeah .Marketing: So um fanciness first andthen two ti you know , half as important as that is technology technology ,Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: and half important as technology is easy to use . So .Project Manager: {gap} So , Hamed , can you {gap}.User Interface: Yeah . The second one . Could you please show the presentation number three .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: I think the biggest struggle will be the easy to use feature .ProjectManager: {vocalsound} Um . Number ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} We'll see .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Three .User Interface: Three .Project Manager: This one ? {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound} Yes . {gap} Just Could you please check if it is the first one or the second . Uh , n n no , it's the first one . The second one .Project Manager: So it's not this one .User Interface: Uh yeah . Okay . {gap}Okay . So I am going to talk about {disfmarker} a little bit about how this remote control should be appear to be more easy to use . I think uh I think the feature easy to use is more important than being fancy , butokay , we can discuss about it uh later . Um {vocalsound} generally , generally uh this remote control uh uh should be should be something , in my opinion , uh the first feature is just to be easy to use . So , the morefrequent buttons should be larger , they should be placed in a good position uh uh inside the remote control . And uh s uh I can conclude like this , that we shouldn't need to learn how to use it . It should be{disfmarker} we shouldn't need to es open a a t book and uh start reading and uh learning how to use this uh this uh remote control . {vocalsound} Okay . So what I found out that uh as I said uh I think it's better toput uh more frequent uh uh uh ke uh buttons which are used more in the middle of the remote control , and they should be bigger in size . Uh the shape of remote control should be in a way which can {disfmarker}which should be taken easily in hand . It should not be completely like uh a cube . It should be it should have round edge , so uh then it's easier .Industrial Designer: Exactly .User Interface: And maybe uh just likesome toys , some joystick which is easier to take inside the hand . And uh also f uh uh m because because customers doesn't like to buy lots of battery , it should not uh consume lots of energy . Okay . And my personalp uh preference is uh , as I said , uh just putting this buttons in a special places and covered some buttons which are not used uh that much like settings button , like mobile phone . Usually some mobile phone coverthe dialling number part , so we can cover these buttons which are not used or uh number buttons for the for the for the can channels , and just put uh volume change or s ch can uh channel change buttons uh uh in theremote control . And if the user needed to do some more complex task uh he he can open the cover and then change settings or something like this . Uh . And also uh I think if we put some some some some somebuttons inside of the remote control it can be used easier . Not on remote control . I dunno if I can explain well . But uh just inside . For example , a sliding or rolling uh uh d uh stuff , if we put it inside then we caneasily manipulate with uh thumb . So it can be another uh preference . And uh I dunno but uh I think usage of a speech recogn uh r recogniser can be good . I know that it consumes lots of energy , but if we do it insome way that it asleeps when there is no sound and when it detects some sound it may consume less energy . And I think it's good because it's something new and usually young people like something new . So it maynot be very useful but because it's new , people may buy it . Uh I personally think there should be a big difference between uh between something . Otherwise they prefer to buy something which is coming from afamous company , or . Okay . That's mine .Project Manager: Okay . {gap}Industrial Designer: Uh okay , so good news from me uh uh for me from Hamed , but bad news from Bob obviously , because spongy design , Idon't like it as {gap} {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay , so could you please , Fabien , open it .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: I'm person two . And which one , uh probably the first one . I'm not sure but check the first one . I {disfmarker} Most of the things I have to write myself on the board , but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Thisone , yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah , that's it . Just {disfmarker} It's only this slide ? Yeah . This this is just uh one thing I wanted to mention and show you that I just uh I just found this , that our company uhdeveloped a s a seven f seven fingers or I'll just {disfmarker}Marketing: Inch .Industrial Designer: Yeah , seven seven inch T_ {disfmarker} T_F_T_ screen , which is good news for us , since we wanted to include adisplay there . Uh so I I probably draw it down raw scheme .Project Manager: Oh , {gap} .Industrial Designer: This is this is the stuff that I can use to {disfmarker}Project Manager: Oops .Industrial Designer: Okay , sothe {disfmarker} this will be like the overall scheme or overall requirements from the engineering point of view . Uh first thing is uh this will be the overall shape , no uh I'm not speaking about the real shape of thedevice , but the shape of the inside of the device . So there will be some circuit uh for the power . So , say power circuit here . Uh the main energy will be taken from batteries that we can uh uh {disfmarker} And if wedecide to use the speech recognition stuff there , we must use additional source of energy , which I found the best is to use the solar cells which can which can uh supply everything . I was computing all the all thethings related to the speech recognition , and it's okay to use just uh two batteries and solar cells , so . So no problem . There can be also solar cell . Uh the main board with all the circuits will take at least seven toseven centimetres , so this is my like hard requirement for the guys from the design .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: So at least seven to seven . It depends where you put your screen , because thescreen is uh seven inch , so it depends on you where where you put it .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: It doesn't matter . Um it's just one cord from from the main board to the screen which can beelsewhere . So this will be T_F_T_ . And on the main board we have the um interface to the microphone , which is somewhere , say here . Interface to the microphone . Then the graphical card uh for the T_F_T_ and thethird unit is the I_R_ . The good news is that we can uh we decided to use the infra-red unit because our company has also developed the chip for communication by the infra-red , including all the stuff inside , so it willbe very cheap for us . So infra-red here . So the {disfmarker} once again the overall requirements , seven to seven centimetres for the board , which has to be {disfmarker} which can be spongy but has to be this size ,and the T_F_T_ which is seven inches . Um I have to check what I wanted to {disfmarker} Uh from my point of view I don't care about the about the material used for the overall des uh ov all the device .ProjectManager: Can you fit any uh for example a T_F_T_ or any electronic device in a spongy thing , or is there any problem for that ? For example , put electronic card on a spongy thing , I can I can imagine it could be aproblem .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} A all these things in in uh in this box are okay to put in in any shape , basically .Project Manager: Yep .Industrial Designer: But we have to take care of the T_F_T_ . Well ,sponginess . Maybe it a good feature , since it takes {disfmarker} if it's around the T_F_T_ then it's good , because it's just keeps it safe ,Project Manager: Okay . So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I dunno .UserInterface: Well maybe it can have two shells , a hard shell inside and a spongy shell outside .Marketing: SoProject Manager: Okay . Maybe put electronic in a box and a spongy thing around . {gap} maybe after.Industrial Designer: Well , it's maybe related to the U_I_ .Marketing: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Ca Can I ask a question . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: A Yeah , that's all from me.Marketing: This seven inch T_F_T_ screen ,Industrial Designer: Yeah ?Marketing: how big is it in reality ?Industrial Designer: Well , seven to seven inches .Marketing: So like that .Industrial Designer: Yes .ProjectManager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: That's quite big .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Uh uh have we decided that we're gonna use this T_F_T_ screen ?Project Manager: No , Idon't think it's seven by seven ,Industrial Designer: Yeah but {disfmarker}Project Manager: I think it's seven {disfmarker} the diagonal is seven .Industrial Designer: To be honest , I was {disfmarker}Project Manager:Usually when they say seven inch I think it's the diagonal .User Interface: Yeah yes {gap} .Marketing: But I mean even even that is like this big .Project Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound} I dunno I dun I dun One each{gap}User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: {gap}Project Manager: . But , yeah , {gap} .Industrial Designer: Yeah , honestly speaking I was thinking that it was seven centimetres initially ,Marketing:Yeah .Industrial Designer: but it's seven inches . But I I think we can we can cut it .Marketing: You can cut the T_F_T_ screen . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Let's go . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:Yeah , no no problem ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: because because because then the size of the graphic card will be one fourth .Project Manager: {vocalsound} So let's cut the T_F_T_ .IndustrialDesigner: So {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah , but no problem to to me to cut the screen .User Interface: Mm .Marketing: Okay , so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So sofor the same price we have four screens now {vocalsound} .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: These technical engineers , huh .Marketing: So , what's the size of the device ?Industrial Designer:Ah well this is like this is almost nothing . Seven to seven to at least well some three millimetres or something .Marketing: Even from my perspective seven t seven centimetres by seven centimetres is still{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah , but we wanted the big buttons and stuff like that , you know .Marketing: Is it {disfmarker} Can you hold that , or ?Industrial Designer: Because if it's t too small we can we canlose it , at home , you know .Project Manager: {vocalsound} What user wants . He wants a small remote control , or ? Uh uh with big buttons .User Interface: Uh .Industrial Designer: I thought that it it should fit in thehand or something .Marketing: Yeah , a small c control that they can hold in hand .Project Manager: It's difficult .User Interface: Yes .Project Manager: {vocalsound} A smIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing:But is something that's seven centimetres square e easy to hold ?User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: W I I think so . I if the roller buttons are on the side you don't have to catch it like that , but just likethis , and you know follow follow {disfmarker} Well , that's that's no task for me , but well seven to seven at least yeah ,Project Manager: {vocalsound} So maybe you can finish your presentation ,User Interface:{vocalsound}Project Manager: and afterwards we will discuss about all this .Industrial Designer: but {disfmarker} Oh , okay .User Interface: Maybe this {gap} .Marketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: Okay thanks {gap}.Project Manager: That's it . Okay . So . {vocalsound} {gap} No . Uh , so I think we have a lot {disfmarker} We have to take decision today , so I think we have to do some work to finalise our idea and take decisions .Uh first I think energy it's a key problem because uh it depend what can we have as feature if we use only batteries , for example , or something like that . Because can we have L_C_D_ and speech recognition withbattery , and it's also r related to the size of the of the devi of the device ?Industrial Designer: Not {disfmarker} J uh just a point to the energy th things . If we use the batteries , and the additional so solar cell , thenit's okay for L_ uh speech recognition and L_C_D_ ,Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: so no problem in energy , I think .Project Manager: So {disfmarker} Okay .Industrial Designer: But we have to use thesolar cell .User Interface: So but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Uh like {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Otherwise not .Project Manager: but using how many batteries , for example ? Are are what Maybe what is thesize of the battery {gap}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah I was thinking just common A_A_ cells .Project Manager: Okay . Uh one two {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So like three to five centimetres ,ProjectManager: Okay .Industrial Designer: I dunno exactly , but .Marketing: So if we use s solar cells , um where is the sun if someone's watching T_V_ inside ?Industrial Designer: S Uh d doesn't need to be sun . It it's justthe daylight , you know .Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Okay .Project Manager: The television lights . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah well I I suppose that I suppose that uh that this remote controlwon't be in the in the room like this , where there is light only when when there are people , but .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Mm-hmm .ProjectManager: At least when there is T_V_ you can get light from the T_V_ .Industrial Designer: Yeah from the T_ {vocalsound} {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: I don't think it's enough , uh .ProjectManager: {vocalsound} I dunno .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Okay . Mm .Industrial Designer: Ah it's a it's a compromise , no ?Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: At least it's new and maybe technologyNew technology .Industrial Designer: Yeah , that's why I wanted to to include the speech recognition , because you wanted all the new things .Marketing: It's it's quite innovative , yes .Project Manager: Yeah .UserInterface: Hmm .Project Manager: Um .Marketing: And if you watch T_V_ outside it's {vocalsound} very useful . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So I think before talking about the otherthing , it's important thing it's the case .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh what what are gonna be the size , because its weight drives the other {disfmarker} what we are going to use as featuresand so on . For example for the for the L_C_D_ , if we choose to have a small device , we cannot use this um a such a a a screen .Industrial Designer: Uh the s the screen is okay , but the board , uh that's the problem .Well what what would you guess as a shape ? Or what what would be the shape ?User Interface: Mm . I think I think their being uh large or small is not important . The only important thing is to be able to take it in uhinside hand easily . So let's say an average size , okay ,Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: and it should not be very heavy also . And I prefer to {disfmarker} is it shouldn't have a uniform shape , so in the middleit should be a little bit thinner , maybe maybe . So we c it's like like some joysticks . You can take uh some some joystick you can take inside hand easier because it's it's designed for your f uh taking into account yourfinger shape and your palm shape . So the general shape should be like this . I think uh seven centimetre by seven centimetre is a little bit large . So uh seven {disfmarker} not seven but let's say five by ten it's I thinkit's {disfmarker} that's my opinion . It's easier .Industrial Designer: Okay .Marketing: Which is the same area .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay .User Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound}Marketing: Could you recould you redesign your board ?Industrial Designer: Five to ten . Well that {disfmarker}Marketing: Oh , five five centimetres by ten centimetres .Industrial Designer: Yeah , right .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer:Yeah , I think it's feasib Well one um um {disfmarker} How could we do it ? We could put the board next to , well , under the L_C_D_ and for example make the L_C_D_ be totally unrelated to the thing that you hold inyour hand .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Like holding something , and the L_C_D_ to be just on top of it , you know somehow . Well {disfmarker} But maybe let's stick to the s spongy thing , like oneunit .Project Manager: Oh . I've I s I think the easiest thing would be to to have a smaller L_C_D_ , if it's possible .Industrial Designer: Well fi five to ten it would be feasible .User Interface: Mm .Industrial Designer:Okay , so five to ten , I I think it's it's feasible .Project Manager: Okay . So we are agree with a smallIndustrial Designer: I'll make it .User Interface: {gap} Or uh or I don't knowProject Manager: L_C_D_ .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Fo Five by ten .User Interface: but I don't want to now invent something new , because we didn't discuss about it . So using some L_C_D_s we can touch , so we can remove uh keys


The Chair (Hon. Anthony Rota (NipissingTimiskaming, Lib.)): I call this meeting to order. Welcome to the 13th meeting of the House of Commons Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic. This will be a hybridmeeting. Some members will be participating via video conference and some will be participating in person. In order to ensure that those joining the meeting via video conference can be seen and heard by those in thechamber, two screens have been set up on either side of the Chairs chair, and members in the chamber can listen to the floor audio or to interpretation using the earpieces at their desks. Before speaking, please waituntil I recognize you by name, and please direct your remarks through the chair. For those joining via video conference, I would like to remind you to leave your mike on muteMr. Ziad Aboultaif (Edmonton Manning,CPC): I have a point of order.The Chair: Can the member wait for the point of order until we finish the introduction?Mr. Ziad Aboultaif: There is so much noise in the background over there, Mr. Chair.The Chair: That is avery good point of order. I want to remind everyone that when we speak, it is picked up. We have amazing speakersand an amazing Speaker, but that's a whole other storyand amazing microphones in the chamber,and they do pick up everything. I know there was some chatter going on in the background. I want to make sure everyone is aware of that. Mr. Aboultaif, that was a very good point of order. I appreciate that. For thosejoining us via video conference, I would like to remind you to leave your mikes on mute when you're not speaking. Also, please note that if you want to speak in English, you should be on the English channel, and if youwant to speak in French, you should be on the French channel. Should you wish to alternate between the two languages, you should change the channel to the language that you are speaking each time you switchlanguages. Should members participating by video conference wish to request the floor outside their designated speaking times, they should activate their mic and state that they have a point of order. Those in theChamber can rise in the usual way. Please note that today's proceedings will be televised. I understand that there are no ministerial announcements for today, so we'll continue to the presentation of petitions, for aperiod not exceeding 15 minutes. I would like to remind members that any petition presented during a meeting of the special committee must have already been certified by the clerk of petitions. For membersparticipating in person, we ask that they please come and drop the signed certificate off at the table once the petition is presented. The first petition goes to Mr. Manly, who is joining us via video conference.Mr. PaulManly (NanaimoLadysmith, GP): Thank you, Mr. Chair. This is a petition that calls on the government to deal with helping our honey bees. They are crucial to our food system. They provide hundreds of billions of dollarsworth of services to commercial agricultural crops and other ecological services every year, and the European Union has put heavy restrictions on the chemicals that are affecting them, the neonicotinoids. This petitioncalls on the Government of Canada, for the sake of bees and our food security, to follow Europe's lead and adhere to the precautionary principle by banning the use of neonicotinoids in Canada.The Chair: The nextpresenter of petitions will be Mr. Genuis, who is very parliamentary and dressed from the waist up, I understand.Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood ParkFort Saskatchewan, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair, and that is all youneed to see for the moment. Canadians are horrified by the military report on the conditions of long-term care in Ontario. It raises big questions about the choices facing seniors in certain situations, which is whatmakes this first petition particularly timely. I am tabling a petition related to Bill C-7, the government's euthanasia bill, which seeks to dramatically remove safeguards that the government said were vital only a shorttime ago. When some people are living in deplorable conditions, we cannot truly speak of them as having a choice of when they ought to die. Especially in light of that new information, I commend this petition for theconsideration of members of the House. The second petition is in support of Bill S-204 on organ harvesting and trafficking, put forward in the Senate. The bill would make it a criminal offence for a person to go abroadand receive an organ without the donor's consent. This bill seeks to combat the horrific practice of forced organ harvesting and trafficking.The Chair: The next petition presenter will be Ms. May.Ms. Elizabeth May(SaanichGulf Islands, GP): Thank you, Mr. Chair, and greetings from SaanichGulf Islands. The petition I'm presenting today is petition e-2509, which has been duly certified. It relates to what I think many of us willregard as the real heroes of the last few months. In this pandemic, there have often been very underpaid and overworked front-line workers who receive minimum wage and nothing more, and who are of coursedeemed essential services. The petitioners have asked the government to implement a wage supplement as a temporary measure to bring the wages for those who are in contact with the general public and working inwhat has been deemed an essential service to no less than $20 an hour, in light of their service and the risks they're taking for all of us.The Chair: We have a point of order from Ms. Harder.Ms. Rachael Harder(Lethbridge, CPC): Mr. Chair, the honourable member who just spoke brought up a great point yesterday. She said that when we present petitions, we are simply supposed to give one or two sentences before puttingthem on the table. I believe that was more than one or two sentences.The Chair: I want to remind honourable members that when they are presenting petitions, they should be very concise with the prcis that they giveup front, as opposed to going on for a long time. Now we will proceed to statements by members for a period not exceeding 15 minutes, and each statement will be for one minute. We will start with Mr. Fonseca.Mr.Peter Fonseca (Mississauga EastCooksville, Lib.): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Today I am honoured to recognize the youth in my riding of Mississauga EastCooksville who are part of the 52nd Mississauga Scouts. For over adecade, I've had the great opportunity to join the Scouts every year during the month of May for the door-to-door food drives. This year has been a lot different, owing to the COVID situation, but our Scouts are notused to saying the word impossible. David Chant, head leader for their cub pack, reached out to share that the youth have found innovative ways to engage our community through a virtual food bank. I say a big thankyou to Scout leaders like David, who are strong role models for our youth, teaching them the importance of leadership, kindness and giving back. I've always been amazed with the support within our community for theScouts' food drive. David and his group of Scouts raised over $46,000 worth of food last year for the Mississauga Food Bank and The Compass. Again, I give a huge virtual high-five to all of our young Scouts, who havetaken the lead with lots of compassion and care.The Chair: We'll now go on to Mr. Richards.Mr. Blake Richards (BanffAirdrie, CPC): May 24 to May 31 is Tourism Week in Canada. This annual celebration is a time for usto recognize the contributions and experiences of Canada's tourism industry. This is a very important industry, and this year's Tourism Week is a little different from what it normally is. The ongoing coronavirus crisishas closed provincial and international borders to recreational travel, and tourism operators from coast to coast have been among the first and hardest hit due to the government-mandated lockdowns. Clear criteriaregarding border reopenings and health and safety requirements will allow hospitality and tourism businesses to sufficiently prepare to reopen. This includes rehiring employees, ordering supplies and putting togethertour packages and marketing plans. Operators do not need to be set back any further because of a lack of clarity around reopening. While this Tourism Week is not a celebration like the one we had expected, Ianticipate next year's celebration to be a celebration of an even stronger and more successful tourism industry in Canada.  The 1.8 million Canadians whose jobs depend on a thriving tourism sector are counting onit.   Bonne semaine to tourism.The Chair: We'll go on to Mr. Rogers.Mr. Churence Rogers (BonavistaBurinTrinity, Lib.): Mr. Chair, Monday was a sad day in my riding of BonavistaBurinTrinity, and indeed our entireprovince. Please join me as I offer sincere condolences to the families of the men who lost their lives at sea in a tragic accident off the coast of St. Lawrence in Placentia Bay.  Ed Norman, his son Scott Norman and hisnephew Jody Norman all tragically lost their lives while fishing for crab this past Monday. A fourth man, family friend Isaac Kettle, was also with them. After a courageous search mission by Canadian Coast Guardauxiliary members and the Department of National Defence and Provincial Airlines, he is unfortunately still missing. We grieve with the entire town of St. Lawrence as they mourn this tragic loss of life. Mr. Chair, I amsure the entire province of Newfoundland and Labrador, this parliamentary family and Canadians from coast to coast to coast join me in thinking of these men, along with their friends and families, during this difficulttime. Thank you, Mr. Chair.The Chair: We'll now continue with Mr.Simard.Mr. Mario Simard (Jonquire, BQ): Thank you, Mr.Chair. I would like to speak to you today about a solid man who unfortunately passed away onMay25. We were greatly saddened to learn about the death of FrancisDufour. This builder of Quebec's political history drew his last breath at the age of91, late Sunday night. Mr.Dufour was the archetypal proudrepresentative of my region who spent his entire life in Jonquire. He first became involved in the Alcan employee's union in Arvida, then continued his civic involvement at the municipal level as mayor, then in theQuebec National Assembly as the member for Jonquire. He will be remembered as a man with deep ties to his community, a man of integrity, a people person, who dedicated himself to serving citizens and advancingthe independence movement in Quebec. On behalf of the people of the riding of Jonquire and all the people of Quebec, I offer my most sincere condolences to FrancisDufour's family and loved ones. Thank you.TheChair: We are continuing with MartinezFerrada.Ms. Soraya Martinez Ferrada (Hochelaga, Lib.): Thank you, Mr.Chair. The pandemic has greatly affected Montreal East, particularly the riding of Hochelaga, which Irepresent. Today, I'd like to recognize the exceptional work of all the volunteers and organizations in Hochelaga that are helping the more vulnerable populations, including Anonyme, CAP St-Barnab, CARE Montral, theCuisine collective Hochelaga-Maisonneuve, Bouffe Action, the Centre Communautaire Hochelaga, Chic Resto Pop, Jojo Dpannage, Groupe d'Entraide de Mercier-Ouest and many others. I'd like to acknowledge thecommitment of the merchants who have rolled up their sleeves, including the Coop Couturires Pop, to make masks. I'd especially like to recognize essential workers, especially attendants. Allow me to offer ourcondolences to the loved ones of the attendants who have lost their lives to protect ours. The citizens of Hochelaga are resilient and unified. I am proud to rise in the House to salute them.The Chair: The nextpresentation will be by Mr. Cumming.Mr. James Cumming (Edmonton Centre, CPC): Mr. Chair, I rise today to pay tribute to a great Albertan and former parliamentarian, Louise Feltham, who passed away this Mondayafter a lengthy battle with cancer. Louise was an entrepreneur, a public servant and a force of nature. She inspired the family motto How hard can it be? by creating communities and building several homes in herlifetime. In all that she did, Louise broke glass ceilings. Her many firsts included being the first woman to serve as a councillor in rural Alberta, the first female reeve in rural Alberta and the first woman born inNewfoundland to serve in this chamber. She was the MP for Wild Rose from 1988 to 1993. Her son Glenn served as the president of NAIT when I chaired the board. My thoughts and sympathies are with him, his wifeTammi and the rest of their family for this great loss. Her parliamentary family mourns with you today.   Some hon. members: Hear, hear!The Chair: We will now go to Mr. Bagnell.Hon. Larry Bagnell (Yukon, Lib.): Mr.Chair, it is a great honour to speak to the House of Commons today from Whitehorse, Yukon, here on the traditional territory of the Kwanlin Dn First Nation and the Ta'an Kwch'n Council. As a great historic Canadianevent last week, Yukon became home to Canada's first university north of 60. Yukon University will provide Yukoners with educational opportunities closer to home, expand our research capabilities and expertise on theArctic and climate change and allow those who want to study northern and first nations governance to do so in the north. I encourage all students living in the northern half of Canada to look at the many programs anddegrees at Yukon University to continue their studiesin some cases this year, virtuallyby remaining in the north. I want to congratulate the staff of Yukon College, who spent the last decade working towards thistransition, and especially the outgoing president, Karen Barnes. I wish her all the best in her retirement. Thank you, merci, mahsi cho and sga senl.The Chair: We'll now go on to Ms. Hutchings.Ms. Gudie Hutchings(Long Range Mountains, Lib.): Thank you, Mr. Chair. First of all, from the Long Range Mountains, I too want to send my condolences to my colleague, Mr. Rogers from BonavistaBurinTrinity, on the tragic loss in St.Lawrence. We're all communities that rely on the sea, and we understand the importance and the tragedy, and the hard work it is being fishers. However, today, colleagues, I want to mention, as my colleague fromacross the way said, that it's national tourism week, so please take the time to get out and thank the tourism and hospitality businesses in your ridings. Most businesses around the world were hit hard by COVID-19.The tourism economy was hit very hard, especially seasonal and rural operations and the 1.8 million people the industry employs. However, this industry knows how to work hard. They know how to partner. They knowhow to look after their employees and their guests. They will find new and innovative opportunities and experiences. They will build new business and they will continue to attract visitors. We know that the domestic andlocal markets will recover first. I know that the operators in my riding are getting ready just for that. It's exciting to speak with them about how they're working on their new normal and how it's going to be developedand implemented here in the Long Range Mountains. Remember too that many of our national parks are opening on June 1, so get out and explore the park in your backyard. I look forward to working with the TourismIndustry Association of Canada, Destination Canada and my colleagues so that when we turn the corner of this pandemic, we are ready to rebuild a stronger tourism economy. Friends, go out and discover the tourismtreasures in your province. They need your support. Tourism matters. Thank you, Mr. Chair.The Chair: Mr.Gourde, you have the floor.Mr. Jacques Gourde (LvisLotbinire, CPC): Thank you, Mr.Chair. Some people werealready too few in number and already burdened with heavy responsibilities even before the COVID-19 crisis occurred. I would like to take this opportunity to express my admiration for the dedication of all the essentialworkers who stepped up in the riding of LvisLotbinire. This crisis has created pressing needs and unprecedented emergencies. Fine men and women committed to human dignity, volunteers, retirees, and you, who havewisely agreed to stay home, you have been part, to varying degrees, of this great equation to minimize the impact of the spread and avoid the worst. The snow has melted, the flowers have arrived. Many children arehappy to be able to expend their energy again; our seniors are being cuddled, with great care, and our essential workers in the riding are still dedicated to the job. I say bravo, thank you and don't give up, even thoughyou have already earned your place in heaven.The Chair: Ms.Bendayan.Ms. Rachel Bendayan (Outremont, Lib.): Thank you, Mr.Chair. My father, who is now retired, was a researcher for over 40years. He was involvedin many medical discoveries. From his laboratories at the Univerist de Montral, he worked with CHUM and the Centre hospitalier universitaire SainteJustine, renowned institutions in Outremont. In Fact, Outremont is fullof professors, scientists and researchers. They are Quebeckers, Canadians, who are at the forefront of discoveries that save and will save lives. Since coming into office, our government has reversed the funding cuts tomedical research and has invested billions in science. Recently, we announced new funding for COVID-19 research for fundamental science and supports for academic researchers. We are working very hard to find avaccine for COVID-19, and our fundamental research is helping us to understand viruses that we don't even know the names of yet. It is this work that will help us stay ahead of the curve rather than flatten it. To all ourCanadian scientists and to my dad, thank you.  Some hon. members: Hear, hear!The Chair: We'll now continue with Ms. Alleslev.Ms. Leona Alleslev (AuroraOak RidgesRichmond Hill, CPC): Mr. Chair, citizens in myriding of AuroraOak RidgesRichmond Hill are showing incredible compassion as they help their families, their friends and even strangers during this difficult period. They are our community champions. The AuroraChamber of Commerce and the Richmond Hill Board of Trade are helping businesses navigate in these difficult times. Organizations like The STEAM Project and Ganesha Temple are making and donating face masks forthose in need. The Aurora Museum & Archives is collecting artifacts to document the pandemic for future generations. The Aurora Farmers' Market is bringing local farmers and businesses to us, but this year with onekey person missing. Our community has lost one of the farmers' market's founders, our jam lady, Jan Freedman. We were deeply saddened by her passing, and she will be sorely missed. My sincere thanks to everyonewho's working to ease the burdens on one another during this crisis. It's not easy, but this too will pass, and we will be stronger for it. In the meantime, stay safe, and let us all do our part to be community champions.Thank you.The Chair: Mr.Deltell, you have the floor.Mr. Grard Deltell (Louis-Saint-Laurent, CPC): Mr.Chair, we all understand that a crisis like the one the world is currently experiencing generates deficits. We also knowthat a deficit is a bill we send to our children and grandchildren, which is why it is important to be prudent, to make wise choices and, above all, to know where we are going. It's a shame that every time we ask thegovernment a question, no minister can tell us how big the Canadian deficit is. We aren't the only ones concerned about the deficit and the government's lack of transparency. In fact, last Tuesday, at a parliamentarycommittee meeting in the Senate, the Parliamentary Budget Officer made some very scathing remarks about the government. He said he was concerned. He said that there had to be a deadline or we'd be headingtoward taxation levels that haven't been seen in generations in this country because there is not a lot of ammunition left before we go into a large structural deficit. I'm not the one saying it; it's the ParliamentaryBudget Officer. For weeks, almost every day, the Prime Minister has been announcing cash injections for Canadians. We agree with that. However, hundreds of billions of dollars are being spent without any idea of thedeficit. That's why we're sounding the alarm and calling on the government to be careful. The Prime Minister needs to know that we can't play Santa Claus every day, because the bills in January come in fast, and theyare high.The Chair: We will now go to Mr. Garrison.Mr. Randall Garrison (EsquimaltSaanichSooke, NDP): Mr. Chair, making sure science informs our health policies is critical during a pandemic. That's why I'm sodisappointed that the Liberals have maintained the ban on blood donations from gay men and trans women. There is no science behind this ban. Not only does it reinforce homophobia and transphobia, it also reducesour blood supply at this critical time. Now we've learned that the ban will also result in rejecting plasma donors, when plasma is so critical in emerging COVID-19 research and treatment. More than 17 countries,