Marketing: Did you get my email with the slides ? Ah . Tricky .Industrial Designer: I guess I have to change the pen otherwise . Will be completely different .Marketing: Dunno . Maybe they're supposed {disfmarker} thepen's supposed to go over the seats . Might be seat floor rather than person . Yeah , put it back .Industrial Designer: Yeah . And do you think {vocalsound} it's {gap} .Marketing: Yep {vocalsound} . Yeah .ProjectManager: {vocalsound} Okay .Marketing: Jo's making faces at me . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: So . Matthew is uh late again .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Probably an important man . Um . So well it is important for him to be here uh .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: He he he {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So what can you {disfmarker}{gap} ?Project Manager: You did work together didn't you ?Industrial Designer: Yeah we will {disfmarker} yeah , so I will be able to to summarize uh our meeting ,Project Manager: Yes .Industrial Designer: but still Ithink uh it would be in very important if the uh as um main designer . I think we can put on the {gap} here .Project Manager: Yes . Yes .Industrial Designer: Uh basically w yeah we we designed the two uh items.Project Manager: Mm . Um yesIndustrial Designer: Um , can we have a phone ,Project Manager: but w we {disfmarker} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: can someone {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yes, maybe we should phone him . Um well {disfmarker} Um ,Industrial Designer: it's really w well designed {vocalsound} .Marketing: Mm . Mm , object tracking . {vocalsound}Project Manager: when he is not here wewill just we just have to continue . Um so just for record I I will take uh notes again .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: And um well {vocalsound} first thing uh I was uh uh I got an emailfrom uh from my superior again that we really should stay within the budget of the uh twelve Euro and fifty cents .Industrial Designer: 'Kay .Project Manager: when you stay in it's good , when you don't stay in youhave to redesign . There is no {vocalsound} uh no negotiation uh {vocalsound} possible in this matter . So we have to consider that . {vocalsound} Good .Industrial Designer: Yep .Project Manager: Um so maybe Anna, you can have your presentation .Marketing: Well we can't {disfmarker} no {disfmarker} we can't do evaluation 'til we have a design .Project Manager: Okay Matthew . Nice uh you are here .Industrial Designer: Great.Project Manager: Great . Great . Oh ma maybe then you can start now with mm presenting your uh your designs .Industrial Designer: Yep . So I will start by the the basic one that uh fits into uh eight Euros actually ,right , seven eight Euros ,Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: and uh well first for both they have um a special shape , maybe the designer can uh explain better than me , but uh it's like a surf board .Marketing:Mm 'kay .Industrial Designer: And you you are supposed to surf to browse to surf T_V_ , maybe the web , and uh it's kind of interesting shape because um unconsciously people want to s to surf {vocalsound} whenthey see this stuff .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Or browse .Industrial Designer: And also it's not too far from um amobile .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: So people are used to that kind of shape ,User Interface: Mm .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: right . Don't take care too much aboutthe colour because w yeah we don't take {disfmarker}User Interface: Now we are supposed to give some oper offers right now .Industrial Designer: yeah . So here would be basically the the the infrared uh uhledMarketing: {vocalsound} Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Eye .User Interface: {vocalsound} I {disfmarker} yeah .Industrial Designer: yeah L_A_ L_A_ L_E_D_ ,User Interface: L_E_D_ .Industrial Designer: the on-offbutton , in red .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Here would be the volume . On the on the left ,Marketing: Oh yeah .Project Manager: Uh-huh .Industrial Designer: okay , so {gap}User Interface: Mm-hmm ,hmm .Project Manager: Yes .Industrial Designer: easy to turn on t and off . And um so this is a very cheap version so there are {disfmarker} maybe you can carry on uh Matthew .User Interface: Also {vocalsound} soyou have uh uh browsing the channels , actuallyMarketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: so you can go up and down the channels ,Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: uh , if you have a video or something you can forward ,back .Industrial Designer: How can you change from V_C_R_ to uh T_V_ , by the way ?User Interface: Oh {gap} no no no , this is a single {disfmarker} this this is a model with just the T_V_ one .Industrial Designer:Okay yeah . Yeah yeah .Project Manager: Ah , okay .User Interface: No no just sorry , this is a standard T_V_ one , we are not talking about that . So and then we have usually there twelve keys but we know that we relthat we have only ten digits .Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: The extra two are for uh having or giving an option for uh having more than one channel . And the other one is for the teletext or something you wantto browse through from that . Actually .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Okay soProject Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: it's it's t a very basic remote then , it's only {disfmarker}User Interface: It's a very basicminimal thingMarketing: Mm .Project Manager: Yeah . Yeah . Yeah .User Interface: which you can {disfmarker} which is which is also available in the market , actually that's what it {gap} {disfmarker} that it{disfmarker} {vocalsound} iIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: and would cost us to build it about eight Euros .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: Seven , eight , ei eight Euros.Project Manager: Exce except for the for the special shape , the surfing board , it has a quite a a conventional layout of buttons uh .User Interface: Yeah . Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: So this onemodelMarketing: Can I see ?User Interface: and uh {disfmarker} yeah . Sure .Marketing: Thanks . Okay I like the volume control , that's good .Industrial Designer: {gap} {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Th{vocalsound} this is a magic one but I know we don't want to talk about that ,Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: you know like {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: uh i i i it is a veryfuturistic , it's like uh it's like a brain machine interface and all this stuff we are thinking about in the future , it can come .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Uh-huh .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager:{vocalsound}Marketing: So it doesn't actually have buttons .User Interface: {vocalsound} So that uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker} then what we look tMarketing: Did you wanna see ?User Interface: yeah .ProjectManager: Mm-hmm . Yeah no you can carry on ,User Interface: This is a model ,Project Manager: I just look how it feels all .User Interface: yeah .Project Manager: Yes it really feels like like like a mobile phone.Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: Yep .Project Manager: Just I'm {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah actually , yeah .Project Manager: I really want to talk to it .Marketing: {vocalsound} Itwon't talk back . {vocalsound}Project Manager: But {gap} .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} So but but continue with your uhUser Interface: Uh so wellProject Manager: mm-hmm .UserInterface: then the this is the {vocalsound} a more a little uh smoothIndustrial Designer: {gap}User Interface: and it gives a lot of functionality , uh in this way , so all we have uh th you see there are only six keys ,but don't worry they are ma they are doing the job of twelve keys actually here .Marketing: Right .Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: And so they have more space actuallyMarketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: anduh it's easy to uh use this and uh you have um so this is a standard uh {gap} uh infrared eye , and then you have a power button , which l volume , what you have ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: and thenother than that you have uh channel up and down and uh f slow pause or s slow loIndustrial Designer: Play , pause .User Interface: yeah s pause or stop , and uh then uh you can uh you have a L_C_D_ display ,hereProject Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: and uh y this is a functional thing which can change like it's a toggle switch which could change the function say , y you press it {disfmarker}Project Manager: FromD_V_D_ player to television or something .Industrial Designer: Exactly yeah . To audio and to video on demand .User Interface: Yeah . I really can change it ,Project Manager: Yes .User Interface: so{disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: Instead of having many switches , y {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Yes and and and then you get feedback via the L_C_D_ yeah .UserInterface: The L_C_D_ can display what is that on that ,Industrial Designer: Yes .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: and uh well you can have a integrated microphone over here ,Industrial Designer: This is theorange button , the {vocalsound} microphone .User Interface: or in the button th here ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: so which can uh basically you want to do a speech recognition and uh that channel alot of information can be di displayed here directly on the um on your on your display .Industrial Designer: An yeah .User Interface: And here is a small L_E_D_ which is like blinking one ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: which tells you like uh are you running out of the battery , and which is can be useful for the locating as I was talking earlierProject Manager: Mm-hmm {vocalsound} .Industrial Designer: Yeah .UserInterface: okay . And uh well then we have a cover basically , basically you don't need much of the time this ,Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound} when you need you can use it , and this givesadditional functionality that tomorrow you want you can add a tactile thing to this coverProject Manager: Mm . YeahIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Crazy dis designer ,User Interface: you know .Industrial Designer:okay . {vocalsound}User Interface: Design enter {vocalsound} .Project Manager: but but but but uh i in there uh when this is closed , will it also uh cover up the L_C_D_ screen ?User Interface: Yeah .IndustrialDesigner: Yeah yeah yeah yeah .User Interface: Yeah . It's basically to do that .Project Manager: But but the L_C_D_ screen I mean is a very uh well an eye-attracting featureIndustrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface:{vocalsound}Project Manager: which shouldn't be shouldn't be {disfmarker}User Interface: Actually when you are watching the T_V_ , {vocalsound} when you are watching anything or listening to them , you hardlycare about what is getting displayed here ,Industrial Designer: Oh actually {disfmarker} well .Project Manager: {vocalsound} That th that's true .User Interface: you know , uh you want to uh {disfmarker} and thisgives a protection to the L_C_D_ actually , giving a cover to that actually . Gives a protectionProject Manager: Mm .User Interface: because when it falls down or something it it is it is is is it gives a protecProjectManager: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . Yes . Yes , more robust .User Interface: it's more robust that way . Uh yeah .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: Yes okay .User Interface: And you have very good chances{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: It's low weight . You have to see yeah yeah the the components we put inside is very low weight .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Yeah .IndustrialDesigner: So the the cost is actually a bit more , it's uh {vocalsound} it's it's sixteen Francs .User Interface: It {disfmarker} Sixteen Euros .Project Manager: {gap} Okay .Industrial Designer: Sixteen Euros sorry.Marketing: So it's well outside the budget then .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Then it's out of budget .Project Manager: But wIndustrial Designer: But the the main point we we talk about that withour uh manufacturer . And they say basically that the S_R_ system would be uh something like three Francs per item {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: soUser Interface: Three Euros .IndustrialDesigner: three Euros sorry . And um {disfmarker}Marketing: That's on top of the sixteen , or is it part of that ?Industrial Designer: No no no , part of that , yeah .User Interface: Part of that {gap} .Marketing: So thattakes it down to thirteen Euros without the speech recognition .Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Mm 'kay . Hmm . {gap}User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .Marketing: Mm-hmm .UserInterface: Well uh if you {disfmarker} we can have {disfmarker} if you have new more ideas we can add new more uh some more keys if you want to you know {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Well I think th th yeah we should {vocalsound} stick with uh a number of keysMarketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: because if we add too much thenUser Interface: YeahProject Manager: Mm-hmm{gap} .Industrial Designer: it's too {disfmarker}User Interface: it it should not be cluttering up everything .Marketing: What's this one on the side ?User Interface: Ah that's for the {disfmarker} it's kind of a L_E_D_ forindicating your batteryIndustrial Designer: Locati . Location .Marketing: Ah okay .User Interface: and as well as it's like a blinking oneMarketing: Mm-hmm . Mm 'kay .User Interface: you knowIndustrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: you can keep it aside .Marketing: I like the shape of them , I do like the the size and the the shape .Project Manager: Well well {disfmarker} Mm .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Be before tatalking about the money and what's possible and what is not possible , maybe Anna you can uh give our uh give us your um {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm . Okay . And maybe we run the evaluation on both of theproducts , both of these two .Project Manager: Yes . Evalua evaluation and also the evaluation criteria , so what what is important to look at .Marketing: Okay . {vocalsound} Basically this is what we've talked aboutalready , um , from the marketing point of view .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: We just wanna make sure that we've taken into account {disfmarker}Project Manager: WellMarketing: Yep .Project Manager:just do it quickly if if we al already {gap} .Marketing: So it's just a shortlist of criteria on um the things that we've identified as being important to selling the product .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Um we justgo through these and rate them as a group and then at the end we'll make an evaluation based on that , so just average the score of those items , so {disfmarker} {vocalsound} These are the things we identified asbeing important . Um {gap} the three things were look and feel , innovation and ease of use , were the three important componentsProject Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: um appealing to the correct demographic sousing those things in the right way to appeal to our demographic . And then goin following the company motto , following the fashion trends and putting that into the product as well . So well do you wanna go throughand put through those on the the two products now or do we wanna discuss them further and then evaluate them ?Project Manager: Um , n no why not why not discuss uh discuss it now , {gap} {disfmarker}Marketing:Okay . So f just go through onto the whiteboard I guess . Not sure how this is gonna come out . So the first one was really {vocalsound} very far below budget , would you want to take the price down of the endproduct according to that or just have the high profit on it ? 'Cause if we're only going to make it for eight Euros then we have a {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm , well my my personal view is uh w when when thisone is eight Euros we must think how can we improve it .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: And then {disfmarker} I mean w w w you must just see it {vocalsound} {disfmarker} we can still spend this four and ahalf EuroMarketing: Mm-hmm . Yep .Project Manager: and to r because th th th the the selling price is already prite fik uh uh quite fixed on twenty five EurosIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Mm-hmm .ProjectManager: so we just have to offer as much as as {disfmarker} well value for the for the customer uh he can have for twenty five Euro .Industrial Designer: Functionality .Marketing: Okay so look and feel , innovation{disfmarker} {gap}User Interface: And now it {gap} easy to use .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Easy to use .Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: {gap} target .Marketing: Mm-hmm . And trends .Oh , you following the idea of using the um removable covers on these ? Is that part of both of them or ?Project Manager: Um well w w we can still discuss that .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: So um , and togetherwith evaluating this uh we we might come with new ideasMarketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: I mean adding things or uh removing uh of options because they are too expensive ,Marketing: Mm-hmm .ProjectManager: but um I've received uh a framework which we can do this . I mean did you have this this Excel sheet ?Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: No .User Interface: No .Marketing: No .Project Manager: Nookay , this is these are the the the latest prices of our production uh uh production unit for several components ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: so we can uh see whether the the price is is within thetwelve Euro uh fifty cents uh .Marketing: Mm-hmm . Okay .Project Manager: So maybe we can start with this , uh , calling this one . {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay . Yep . So it's the pink .Project Manager: Th th this isthe first design .Marketing: And the other one's green . Okay , soProject Manager: Yes .Marketing: look and feel ? Where um one is {vocalsound} I've broken the pen again . SProject Manager: Uh there is another pen.Marketing: yeah . Get that one . Um w {vocalsound} one's bad and seven's the best . Sorry , one's true and seven's false . One's the best .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: So on a scale of one to seven ?ProjectManager: 'Kay . Okay . So . Look and feel . Well you already feel that uh pretty much I think {vocalsound} .User Interface: {vocalsound} {gap}Project Manager: In i in my opinion purely feel is is is very good , is verygood in your hand ,Marketing: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm , yeah . Mm-hmm .Project Manager: so I I I would consider two or or may maybe even one for feel .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: But that's just half , weshould also consider look ,Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: and then i it looks quite conventional .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: Don't you agree ?User Interface: Mm yeah .Marketing: On the scale u it'sbetween functional and fancy basically we're looking at ,Project Manager: So maybe two . Hmm . Hmm . Ma ma ma ma maybe say say fiveMarketing: so {disfmarker}Project Manager: I {disfmarker} It's my opinion ,but I don't know what whatUser Interface: Well I will give it maybe {disfmarker} we have anyways {disfmarker} the way we have designed it's like the surf as you say {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm-hmm .IndustrialDesigner: Yeah .User Interface: you know . It {disfmarker} though the look is fine but uh still I will give four in that caseIndustrial Designer: Yeah . Four maybe .User Interface: you know .Marketing: Four ? Okay.Project Manager: Four , four .User Interface: Four yeahProject Manager: Now we th thUser Interface: that {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: then we settle on four .User Interface: Yeah . I will giyeah .Marketing: {gap}Project Manager: 'Kay . Can you maybe fix the other {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Uh . Yeah .Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: If you press like this not like this {gap} then you{disfmarker}Marketing: No that's the {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {gap}User Interface: No .Marketing: ink's dried .User Interface: C can you get the batteries ? No no the battery has fallen down ,Marketing:Battery's low , isn't it the ink ?User Interface: that's iMarketing: The b that's the that that one ?User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: {gap} battery there .Industrial Designer: But {disfmarker}User Interface: No no it's notthat , it's how to close a battery .Industrial Designer: Okay .User Interface: Okay ? Now it should be {gap} .Marketing: Mm . No I think it's lost a battery .Project Manager: Mm , try it , just try it .Marketing: No it's{disfmarker} It would still writeProject Manager: Oh it will notMarketing: but it wouldn't pick it up with the sensors .Project Manager: ri mm , mm .User Interface: Is there another battery there ? Oh yeah .Marketing:


The Chair (Hon. Anthony Rota (NipissingTimiskaming, Lib.)): I call the meeting to order. Welcome to the seventh meeting of the Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic. Please note that today's proceedings willbe televised in the same way as a typical sitting of the House. We will proceed to ministerial announcements. I understand that there are no ministerial announcements. That's confirmed. We will now proceed topresenting petitions for a period not exceeding 15minutes. I would like to remind members that any petition presented during a meeting of the special committee must have already been certified by the clerk ofpetitions. Once the petition is presented, the member is asked to bring it here to the Table. Mr.Manly is the first one to be allowed to present a petition.Mr. Paul Manly (NanaimoLadysmith, GP): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Irise today to present a petition that has many signatures from constituents in NanaimoLadysmith. They're calling for a ban on cosmetic testing using animals. They want us to follow the European Union model, underwhich the use of animals in cosmetic testing has been banned. Moving forward, they're calling for a ban on the sale and manufacture of animal-tested cosmetics and their ingredients in Canada.The Chair: Mr. Poilievre isnext.Hon. Pierre Poilievre (Carleton, CPC): Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I rise today to table e-petition 2466, initiated by a constituent of mine in Stittsville, a beautiful west Ottawa community. The petition hascollected 827 signatures from every province and territory. It was collected by Cara, a mother from my riding who suffered an unthinkable tragedy. Her 11-year-old son Joshua drowned in a boating accident on the St.Lawrence River at Rockport, Ontario. Joshua was not wearing a life jacket. Worse, Cara's family had to wait 48 days to recover Joshua's body. Cara is now working tirelessly to amend the small vessel regulations tomake it mandatory for children under the age of 14 to wear a life jacket or PFD while they are passengers in or drivers of small vessels covered under parts 2, 3, and 4 of the regulations. I support Cara's efforts, and I'mhonoured to table this petition on her behalf.The Chair: Seeing no further petitions to be presented, we'll continue, and we will now proceed to the questioning of ministers. Please note that we will suspend theproceedings every 45minutes to allow employees who provide support for the sitting to replace each other safely. Go ahead, Mr. Scheer.Hon. Andrew Scheer (Leader of the Opposition): It was revealed yesterday thatthis government's policy was to ignore fraud. The Prime Minister's reaction was to act as if everything was normal. In fact, we've learned that over 200,000cases of suspected fraud have been identified in the benefitapplications. The Prime Minister is failing our future generations. Our children and grandchildren are going to pay back billions of dollars that he's borrowing to pay tax cheats. Will the Prime Minister protect taxpayersand immediately begin a review of these 200,000cases of suspected fraud?Right Hon. Justin Trudeau (Prime Minister): Our priority was to get money out quickly to all Canadians who needed it, and that's exactly whatwe've done. Millions of Canadians have received the money they so desperately needed. Having said that, I want to make it very clear, Mr.Chair: Fraud is unacceptable. We have measures in place to detect fraud. Allfraudsters will be required to pay back the money they fraudulently received from the government. We're going to make sure that this is done in the coming months.Hon. Andrew Scheer: Mr. Chair, Conservatives agreethat those who need help should get it, and no one is arguing that they shouldn't, but reports indicate that the Liberals have ordered public servants to turn a blind eye to 200,000 cases of suspected fraud. It's a simplequestion: Yes or no, did the government instruct any government department to ignore red flags or warnings of fraudulent cases?Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, the priority in this situation was getting money outto the millions of Canadians who needed it as quickly as possible, but of course fraud is unacceptable. That's why we have put safeguards in place to ensure that anyone who received that money fraudulently will haveto repay it.Hon. Andrew Scheer: It's a yes-or-no question, Mr. Chair. Did the government give any kind of instruction to public servants in any department to ignore red flags or warnings of fraudulent cases, yes orno?Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: The instruction to government officials was to get money out to those who needed it as quickly as possible. We have put measures in place to detect fraud. People who got this moneyfraudulently will have to repay.Hon. Andrew Scheer: Mr. Chair, it is clear that he can't answer a yes-or-no question, so we can all assume what the answer must be. In other situations, the government is saying no topeople. It's letting so many Canadians down. Small business owners who don't happen to have a CRA payroll number or a business account are ineligible for the government supports. Individuals, owner-operators, andthose who are earning $1 more than $1,000 are being told that they don't qualify for the emergency response benefits. Meanwhile, fraudsters are getting them. Does the Prime Minister think it's fair to tell people whoare following all the rules no, while telling government officials to allow fraudulent cases to be processed?Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, Canadians well know that this is an unprecedented situation, one in whichwe had to get help to as many Canadians as possible as quickly as possible. That is exactly what we did. We continue to work very hard to fill gaps for people who should get money but haven't been able to, and, as Isaid, we have strong measures to counter fraud. Anyone who got this money fraudulently will have to repay it.Hon. Andrew Scheer: Mr. Chair, when these programs were first designed, the Prime Minister said that heacknowledged that there were problems and that they would be fixed later. Well, here we are in May, and hundreds of thousands of Canadians are being told no for purely technical and bureaucratic reasons. Will thePrime Minister make the simple changes to allow business owners who don't happen to have a business bank account, who don't happen to have a CRA payroll number and individuals who are ineligible for theemergency response benefit because they've been paid by family members through dividends to qualify, or is he going to continue to let hundreds of thousands of Canadians down during this pandemic?Right Hon.Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, from the beginning of this pandemic, we moved extremely rapidly to get help and support to millions of Canadians. That was the priority, and that's what we've been doing for the past twomonths. As we've said, we will continue to tweak and improve the programs to make sure that more people who need help will get it. We are working the best we can, as fast as we can, to help those millions ofCanadians who need support.The Chair: You have time for about a 15-second question, Mr. Scheer.Hon. Andrew Scheer: Mr. Chair, the Prime Minister indicated that he would support Taiwan's inclusion in the WHO onlyas a non-state observer. Of course, that designation does not exist. Participants of the WHO are either states or NGOs. Will the Prime Minister support Taiwan's participation as a state observer?The Chair: The RightHonourable Prime Minister has 15 seconds or less, please.Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, we will continue with our one China policy, but we have always advocated Taiwan's meaningful inclusion in internationalbodies where it makes sense to do so, and that includes at the WHO.The Chair: Mr.Blanchet now has the floor.Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet (BeloeilChambly, BQ): Thank you very much, Mr.Chair. On Friday, students inQuebec and Canada will be able to apply for the Canada emergency student benefit, which is a good thing. This program was necessary, particularly because the number of students who won't be able to get back theirjobs from last year is much higher than the number of jobs that might be available to these young people. There are also issues of duration. We don't know how long these jobs will remain unavailable. People talkedabout a risk to being in the labour market and meeting the needs of the labour market. On April29, the Deputy Prime Minister made a formal commitment to ensure that these programs are accompanied by workincentives for youth and all CESB recipients. So that everyone knows what they're getting into, I'd like to know whether the employment incentives that will accompany the Canada emergency response benefit will beknown by Friday.Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: I thank the hon. member for understanding the importance of supporting students who, for the most part, won't be able to get the summer jobs they were counting on.Young people don't just want to earn money; they also want to gain work experience. That's why we're setting up programs, including Canada summer jobs, but also another program with 76,000new jobs for youngpeople in important sectors, so that young people can also get jobs. We will continue to work with youth and employers to ensure that gaps in the labour market are addressed, while ensuring that youth arewell-supported.Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet: That's very interesting, but it doesn't answer my question at all. People in the fishing, tourism and agricultural sectors, as well as municipalities and, from the very beginning,of course, the Government of Quebec, more generally, have expressed fears that job gains will cause people to lose their benefits and discourage them from going to work. The only way to avoid that is to ensure thatpeople keep more money as they work more. That is the principle. In fact, we propose that over the $1,000no-penalty limit, half of the earnings be exempt from penalty. Is this something that could be considered?Since it's been two weeks since the commitment was made and it's urgent, can we act now? The emergency shouldn't last eight months.Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr.Chair, young people need money, but they alsoneed work experience. This is an unprecedented situation, which is why we're working with seasonal industries and the different regions to make sure they have a sufficient workforce in their situation. Students can bepart of it, but at the same time we must provide the necessary support for those who can't find a job. That's why we continue to work with the industries involved to ensure that they have a sufficient workforce while wesupport students.Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet: Unfortunately, the spirit of it doesn't seem to have been understood. I doubt that, even in the best-case scenario, the government will be able to get all the jobs needed in atimely manner for all these young people to decide to go ahead. So, first of all, there will be a shortage of jobs. Second, people aren't crazy. If they earn less by working than they earn by not working, all the good faithin the world won't solve the problem. Can we make sure that people keep more money in their pockets as they work more? I think we can have a clear answer, given the timeframe. People are going to start registeringfor the program on Friday. The principles are good, but a clear answer would be good too.Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Beginning Friday, students will be able to apply for the Canada emergency student benefit. Whenthey apply, they'll all be directed to a job bank that we've set up to make sure they know what jobs are available to get not only the money they need, but also the experience they need for their future, while helpingour society in this crisis. I know we're going to be able to count on young people.The Chair: We'll now go to Mr. Singh.Mr. Jagmeet Singh (Burnaby South, NDP): Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, one of themost devastating outcomes of this COVID-19 crisis has been the impact on seniors. Eighty per cent or more of the deaths during COVID-19 have been seniors living in long-term care homes. The military had to becalled in. Out of 14 countries, Canada has been deemed the worst in its care of seniors. Despite all this, the Prime Minister has said recently that he doesn't feel it's the federal government's responsibility to find asolution. How can he say to families reeling with loss that it's not the federal government's responsibility to play a role in solving this problem?Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, perhaps the fact that the NDP nolonger has many seats in Quebec has caused it to forget the importance of respecting the Constitution and the areas of jurisdiction of provincial versus federal governments. We will be there to work with the provincesas they deal with challenges in their long-term care facilities. We are there as a partner, but we, on this side of the House, will always respect the jurisdiction of the provinces and be there to support them in fulfillingthose responsibilities.Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Everyone across Canada has just heard this Prime Minister double down on the idea that he doesn't feel it's his responsibility, despite the fact that the Canadian military had togo into long-term care homes. There is a role that the federal government can play. Both Liberal and Conservative federal governments have been consistently, for decades, cutting transfers to health care. They canincrease those transfers to ensure long-term care is adequately funded. We could also ensure that there's a national care guarantee, working with provinces to ensure that we are meeting the best standards. We couldincrease workers' pay. We could ensure that there's no more profiting off the backs of seniors when it comes to long-term care. Will the Prime Minister commit to some of these care guarantees?Right Hon. JustinTrudeau: It will come as exactly no surprise to the vast majority of Canadians that the Liberal Party will always stand up for the Constitution of Canada. We respect the Constitution. We respect areas of provincialjurisdiction. As I have said from the very beginning of this crisis, we will be there to help the provinces as they manage the challenges they're facing. The federal government does have a role to play, and it is a role tosupport the provinces in doing the things they need to do during this unprecedented time. We will continue to be there.Mr. Jagmeet Singh: I am glad to hear the Prime Minister is no longer trying to hide behindjurisdiction. We know that in long-term care homes, the for-profit long-term care homes have been the site of the worst conditions, where the greatest number of seniors have died. Will the Prime Minister join us incommitting to remove profit from the long-term care system? Vulnerable seniors should not be subject to the profits of a company willing to cut services, staffing and quality of care instead of ensuring that seniors getthe best care possible.Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: I think it has become clear for all Canadians that we need to improve the care offered to our seniors right across the country. We cannot look at these numbers we areseeing and these tragedies hitting so many families and not want to see us as a country do better. That is why we of course recognize that we will work with other orders of government, particularly the provinces inwhose jurisdiction this area rests primarily, to support answering these questions for the long term on how we improve the way Canada supports our elders. This is something really important that we will be therefor.Mr. Jagmeet Singh: At the CHSLD Herron in Dorval, 31seniors died in one month. The residents were left without food, dehydrated and without care, and those with COVID-19 symptoms were not isolated from theothers. Families pay between $3,000 and $10,000 a month for their loved ones to be at the centre. How can the Prime Minister think that he doesn't have a role to play in finding a solution to this devastatingproblem?Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr.Chair, all Quebeckers and even all Canadians were stunned to learn of the tragedy at the Dorval CHSLD. We were very happy, as citizens, when the Government of Quebecreacted firmly and asked many questions in connection with this situation. We will support the Government of Quebec in its efforts to find answers and, most importantly, to ensure that, in the long term, the country willbetter support seniors in all regions.The Chair: We'll continue with Mr.Poilievre.Hon. Pierre Poilievre: Mr. Chair, how many emergency response benefit cheques have been sent to people whose applications have beenflagged as fraudulent?Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos (President of the Treasury Board): Thank you, Mr.Chair. I'd like to start by quickly saying that a total of 7.7million Canadians have received the Canada emergency responsebenefit, which is absolutely essential forHon. Pierre Poilievre: How many emergency response benefits have been sent out to people whose applications have been flagged as fraudulent?Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos: Mr.Chair,I see that the pace will allow me to give a little bit of information for each question. As we said at the outset, there will be mechanismsThe Chair: Mr.Poilievre has the floor.Hon. Pierre Poilievre: How many?Hon.Jean-Yves Duclos: We're working very hard.Hon. Pierre Poilievre: How many?Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos: We're working very hard to ensure the integrity of the mechanism while at the same time taking important steps tohelp Canadians.Hon. Pierre Poilievre: How many emergency response benefit cheques have been sent to people whose applications have been flagged as fraudulent?Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos: A total of 7.7millionCanadians have received the Canada emergency response benefit, and the agency is ensuring the integrity of the system.Hon. Pierre Poilievre: He's now claiming that it's all 7.7 million? That's crazy. The department isreported to have given out 200,000. Is 200,000 the correct number of cheques that have been sent out to people whose applications have been red-flagged as fraudulent, yes or no?Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos: Mr.Chair,I'm pleased to use the opportunity given to me by the hon. member to make the following clarifications. I thank him for it. First, approximately 7.7million Canadians have received at least one payment. Second, almost11million payments have been made.Hon. Pierre Poilievre: How many prisoners have received a Canada emergency response benefit cheque?Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos: This allows me to go even further and thank thehon. member again. Some 7.7million Canadians have received emergency assistance in an emergency situationThe Chair: Mr.Poilievre has the floor.Hon. Pierre Poilievre: So now he's claiming that 7 million Canadiansare in jail? The question was this: How many prisoners have received a benefit cheque?Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos: Mr.Chair, jokes can be made about the plight of Canadians who are suffering tremendously in this crisis,but I'm not here to makeThe Chair: Mr.Poilievre has the floor.Hon. Pierre Poilievre: Even the CBC is saying that prisoners are receiving the cheque. They can't have lost their jobs. They were already in prison. It's asimple question: How many prisoners have received the cheques?Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos: I'd like to remind hon. members that we're talking about an extremely serious situation, a situation that has called into questionpeople's ability to make ends meet, a situation that required emergency measures. We're going to continue to do the job that Canadians expect.Hon. Pierre Poilievre: The question was, how many prisoners havereceived the cheques?Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos: I've already explained to the hon. memberand I'm pleased to remind himthat this benefit is an emergency measure.Hon. Pierre Poilievre: The Auditor General says that he'sdropping half of his audits because the government refuses to provide him with funding. If the government has enough money to send 200,000 fraudulent applicants emergency cheques, why won't the government givethe Auditor General the funding he requested?Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos: I thank the hon. member. It gives me the opportunity, in this emergency situation, to talk about the role of institutions, including that of the AuditorGeneral, which we will continue to support because it helps us do things right.Hon. Pierre Poilievre: Then what does the Auditor General have to do to get the money to do his audits? Does he have to file a bunch offraudulent applications for an emergency response benefit?Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos: Mr.Chair, because I know the hon. member well enough, I'm sure that he isn't givingand doesn't want to givethe impression that theAuditor General wants to commit fraud to do his job properly.Hon. Pierre Poilievre: I agree, and that's why he should get the money he needs to do his job. He did twice as many audits under the previous governmentas he is doing now, but he doesn't have the money to do the audits he needs to do to keep an eye on this government's extraordinary spending. Yes or no, will the government give the Auditor General the funding he


Grad E: I guess .Grad A: OK , we 're on . So just make sure that th your wireless mike is on , if you 're wearing a wireless .Grad E: Check one . Check one .Grad A: And you should be able to see which one {disfmarker}which one you 're on by , uh , watching the little bars change .Grad B: So , which is my bar ? Mah ! Number one .Grad A: Yep .Grad E: Sibilance . Sibilance .Grad A: So , actually , if you guys wanna go ahead and readdigits now , as long as you 've signed the consent form , that 's alright .Grad E: Are we supposed to read digits at the same time ?Grad A: No . No .Grad E: Oh , OK .Grad A: Each individually . We 're talking about doingall at the same time but I think cognitively that would be really difficult . {vocalsound} To try to read them while everyone else is .Grad E: Everyone would need extreme focus .Grad A: So , when you 're reading thedigit strings , the first thing to do is just say which transcript you 're on .Professor C: Other way . We m We may wind up with ver We {disfmarker} we may need versions of all this garbage .Grad B: For our stuff . Yeah.Professor C: Yeah .Grad A: Um . So the first thing you 'd wanna do is just say which transcript you 're on .Professor C: Yeah .Grad A: So . You can see the transcript ? There 's two large number strings on the digits ?So you would just read that one . And then you read each line with a small pause between the lines . And the pause is just so the person transcribing it can tell where one line ends and the other begins . And I 'll give{disfmarker} I 'll read the digit strings first , so can see how that goes . Um . Again , I 'm not sure how much I should talk about {pause} stuff before everyone 's here .Professor C: Mmm . Well , we have one morecoming .Grad A: OK . Well , why don't I go ahead and read digit strings and then we can go on from there .Professor C: OK . Well , we can start doing it .Grad A: Thanks . So , uh , just also a note on wearing themicrophones . All of you look like you 're doing it reasonably correctly , but you want it about two thumb widths away from your mouth , and then , at the corner . And that 's so that you minimize breath sounds , sothat when you 're breathing , you don't breathe into the mike . Um . Yeah , that 's good . And uh {disfmarker} So , everyone needs to fill out , only once , the speaker form and the consent form . And the short form{disfmarker} I mean , you should read the consent form , but uh , the thing to notice is that we will give you an opportunity to edit a all the transcripts . So , if you say things and you don't want them to be released tothe general public , which , these will be available at some point to anyone who wants them , uh , you 'll be given an opportunity by email , uh , to bleep out any portions you don't like . Um . On the speaker form justfill out as much of the information as you can . If you 're not exactly sure about the region , we 're not exactly sure either . So , don't worry too much about it . The {disfmarker} It 's just self rating . Um . And I thinkthat 's about it . I mean , should I {disfmarker} Do you want me to talk at all about why we 're doing this and what this project is ?Professor C: Um , yeah .Grad A: or {disfmarker} ?Professor C: No . There was{disfmarker} there was {disfmarker} Let 's see . Oh {disfmarker}Grad E: Does Nancy know that we 're meeting in here ?Grad B: I sent an email .Professor C: She got an emai she was notified .Grad E: Oh yeah , shegot an e Yeah , yeah .Professor C: Whether she knows {vocalsound} is another question . Um . So are the people going to be identified by name ?Grad A: Well , what we 're gonna {disfmarker} we 'll anonymize it in thetranscript . Um , but not in the audio .Professor C: Right .Grad A: So theProfessor C: OK . So , then in terms of people worrying about , uh , excising things from the transcript , it 's unlikely . Since it {disfmarker} itdoes isn't attributed . Oh , I see , but the a but the {disfmarker} but the {disfmarker}Grad A: Right , so if I said , " Oh , hi Jerry , how are you ? " , we 're not gonna go through and cancel out the " Jerry "s .Professor C:Yeah . Sure .Grad A: Um , so we will go through and , in the speaker ID tags there 'll be , you know , M - one O seven , M - one O eight .Professor C: Right .Grad A: Um , but uh ,Professor C: Right .Grad A: um , it w uh, I don't know a good way of doing it on the audio , and still have people who are doing discourse research be able to use the data .Professor C: OK . Mm - hmm . No , I {disfmarker} I wasn't complaining ,Grad A: Yep.Professor C: I just wanted to understand .Grad A: Right .Professor C: OK .Grad B: Well , we can make up aliases for each of us .Grad A: Yeah , I mean , whatever you wanna do is fine ,Professor C: Right .Grad F: OK.Grad A: but we find that {disfmarker} We want the meeting to be as natural as possible . So , we 're trying to do real meetings .Professor C: OK .Grad A: And so we don't wanna have to do aliasesProfessor C: Right.Grad A: and we don't want people to be editing what they say .Grad B: Right .Grad A: So I think that it 's better just as a pro post - process to edit out every time you bash Microsoft .Professor C: Right .Grad B: Mm -hmm .Grad A: You know ?Professor C: Right . Um , OK . So why don't you tell us brieflyGrad A: OK . So thProfessor C: your {disfmarker} give {disfmarker} give your e normal schpiel .Grad A: Um . So this is{disfmarker} The project is called Meeting Recorder and there are lots of different aspects of the project . Um . So my particular interest is in the PDA of the future . This is a mock - up of one . Yes , we do believe thePDA of the future will be made of wood . Um . {comment} The idea is that you 'd be able to put a PDA at the table at an impromptu meeting , and record it , and then be able to do querying and retrieval later on , onthe meeting . So that 's my particular interest , is a portable device to do m uh , information retrieval on meetings . Other people are interested in other aspects of meetings . Um . So the first step on that , in any ofthese , is to collect some data . And so what we wanted is a room that 's instrumented with both the table top microphones , and these are very high quality pressure zone mikes , as well as the close talking mikes .What the close talk ng talking mikes gives us is some ground truth , gives us , um , high quality audio , um , especially for people who aren't interested in the acoustic parts of this corpus . So , for people who are moreinterested in language , we didn't want to penalize them by having only the far field mikes available . And then also , um , it 's a very , very hard task in terms of speech recognition . Um . And so , uh , on the far fieldmikes we can expect very low recognition results . So we wanted the near field mikes to at least isolate the difference between the two . So that 's why we 're recording in parallel with the close talking and the far fieldat the same time . And then , all these channels are recorded simultaneously and framed synchronously so that you can also do things like , um , beam - forming on all the microphones and do research like that . Ourintention is to release this data to the public , um , probably through f through a body like the LDC . And , uh , just make it as a generally available corpus . Um . {vocalsound} There 's other work going on in meetingrecording . So , we 're {disfmarker} we 're working with SRI , with UW , Um . NIST has started an effort which will include video . We 're not including video , obviously . And uh {disfmarker} and then also , um , asmall amount of assistance from IBM . Is also involved . Um . Oh , and the digit strings , this is just a more constrained task . Um . So because the general environment is so challenging , we decided to {disfmarker} todo at least one set of digit strings to give ourselves something easier . And it 's exactly the same digit strings as in TI - digits , which is a common connected digits corpus . So we 'll have some , um , comparison to beable to be made .Professor C: OK .Grad A: Anything else ?Professor C: No .Grad A: OK , so when the l last person comes in , just have them wear a wireless . It should be on already . Um . Either one of those . And uh ,read the digit strings and {disfmarker} and fill out the forms . So , the most important form is the consent form , so just be s be sure everyone signs that , if they consent .Grad B: I 'm sure it 's pretty usual formeetings that people come late ,Grad A: Yeah .Grad B: so you will have to leave what you set .Grad A: Right . And uh , just give me a call , which , my number 's up there when your meeting is over .Professor C: Yep.Grad A: And {disfmarker} I 'm going to leave the mike here but it 's n {nonvocalsound} Uh , but I 'm not gonna be on so don't have them use this one . It 'll just be sitting here .Grad B: Input ? Yeah . There we go.Professor C: By the way , Adam , we will be using the , uh , screen as well .Grad B: Yep .Professor C: So , you know . Wow ! Organization . So you guys who got email about this {pause} oh f uh , Friday or somethingabout what we 're up to .Grad E: No .Grad F: No .Grad B: I got it .Grad E: What was the nature of the email ?Professor C: Oh , this was about {pause} um , inferring intentions from features in context , and the words ,like " s go to see " , or " visit " , or someGrad B: Wel - we I {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker}Professor C: You didn't get it ?Grad E: I don't think I did .Professor C: I guess these g have gotbetter filters . Cuz I sent it to everybody . You just blew it off .Grad E: Ah .Professor C: OK .Grad B: It 's really simple though . So this is the idea . Um . We could pursue , um , if we thought it 's {disfmarker} it 's worthit but , uh , I think we {disfmarker} we will agree on that , um , to come up with a {disfmarker} with a sort of very , very first crude prototype , and do some implementation work , and do some {disfmarker} someresearch , and some modeling . So the idea is if you want to go somewhere , um , and focus on that object down {disfmarker} Oh , I can actually walk with this . This is nice . down here . That 's the Powder - Tower .Now , um , {vocalsound} we found in our , uh , data and from experiments , that there 's three things you can do . Um , you can walk this way , and come really , really close to it . And touch it . But you cannot enter ordo anything else . Unless you 're interested in rock climbing , it won't do you no good standing there . It 's just a dark alley . But you can touch it . If you want to actually go up or into the tower , you have to go this way, and then through some buildings and up some stairs and so forth . If you actually want to see the tower , and that 's what actually most people want to do , is just have a good look of it , take a picture for the family ,{comment} you have to go this way , and go up here . And there you have a vre really view {disfmarker} It exploded , the {disfmarker} during the Thirty years - war . Really uh , interesting sight . And um , these uh{disfmarker} these lines are , um , paths ,Grad E: Mmm .Grad B: or so That 's ab er , i the street network of our geographic information system . And you can tell that we deliberately cut out this part . Becauseotherwise we couldn't get our GIS system to take {disfmarker} to lead people this way . It would always use the closest point to the object , and then the tourists would be faced , you know , in front of a wall , but itwould do them absolutely no good . So , {vocalsound} what we found interesting is , first of all , intentions differ . Maybe you want to enter a building . Maybe you want to see it , take a picture of it . Or maybe youactually want to come as close as possible to the building . For whatever reason that may be .Grad E: What 's it {disfmarker} what 's it made out of ?Grad B: Um , r red limestone .Grad E: So maybe you would wannatouch it .Grad B: Yeah , maybe you would want to touch it . Um . Okay , I {disfmarker} This , um {disfmarker} These intentions , we {disfmarker} w w we could , if we want to , call it the {disfmarker} the Vista mode ,where we just want to {disfmarker} eh {disfmarker} s get the overview or look at it , the Enter mode , and the , well , Tango mode . I always come up with {disfmarker} with silly names . So this " Tango " means ,literally translated , " to touch " . So {disfmarker} But sometimes the {disfmarker} the Tango mode is really relevant in the {disfmarker} in the sense that , um , if you want to , uh {disfmarker} If you don't have theintention of entering your building , but you know that something is really close to it , and you just want to approach it , or get to that building . Consider , for example , the Post Office in Chicago , a building so largethat it has its own zip code . So the entrance could be miles away from the closest point . So sometimes it m m m makes sense maybe to d to distinguish there . So , um , I 've looked , uh , through twenty some{disfmarker} Uh , I didn't look through all the data . um , and there {disfmarker} there 's uh , a lot more different ways in people {disfmarker} uh , the ways people phrase how to g get {disfmarker} if they want to getto a certain place . And sometimes here it 's b it 's a little bit more obvious {disfmarker} Um . {vocalsound} Maybe I should go back a couple of steps and go through the {disfmarker}Professor C: No , OK come in , sitdown . If you grab yourself a microphone .Grad B: You need to sign some stuff and read some digits .Professor C: Well , you can sign afterwards .Grad B: O or later .Grad E: You have to al also have to read some digits.Professor C: Afterwards .Grad D: OK . {comment} OK . Afterwards is fine .Grad B: They are uncomfortable . Mm - hmm .Grad D: Really small ? OK . I see . OK .Grad B: Yep .Grad D: Thank you .Grad B: OK , but thatwas our idea .Professor C: And it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it it also has to be switched on , Nance .Grad B: Is {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think {disfmarker}Grad E: No , that one 's already on , Ithought he said .Professor C: It 's on ? OK , good .Grad D: OK . It 's on .Grad E: Yeah .Grad B: OK . That was the idea . Um , people , when they w when they want to go to a building , sometimes they just want to lookat it . Sometimes they want to enter it . And sometimes they want to get really close to it . That 's something we found . It 's just a truism . And the places where you will lead them for these intentions are sometimes exin incredibly different . I {disfmarker} I gave an example where the point where you end up if you want to look at it is completely different from where {disfmarker} if you want to enter it . So , this is sort of how peoplemay , uh {disfmarker} may phrase those requests to a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a mock - up system at least that 's the way they did it . And we get tons of {disfmarker} of these " how do I get to " , " I want to goto " , but also , " give me directions to " , and " I would like to see " . And um , what we can sort of do , if we look closer a closer at the {disfmarker} the data {disfmarker} That was the wrong one . um , we can look atsome factors that may make a difference . First of all , very important , and um , that {disfmarker} I 've completely forgot that when we talked . This is of course a crucial factor , " what type of object is it ? " So , somebuildings you just don't want to take pictures of . Or very rarely . But you usually want to enter them . Some objects are more picturesque , and you {disfmarker} more f more highly photographed . Then of course the{disfmarker} the actual phrases may give us some idea of what the person wants . Um . Sometimes I found in the {disfmarker} Uh , looking at the data , in a superficial way , I found some s sort of modifiers that{disfmarker} that m may also give us a hint , um , " I 'm trying to get to " Nuh ? " I need to get to " . Sort of hints to the fact that you 're not really sightseeing and {disfmarker} and just f there for pleasure and soforth and so on . And this leads us straight to the context which also should be considered . That whatever it is you 're doing at the moment may also inter influence the interpretation of {disfmarker} of a phrase . So ,this is , uh , really uh , uh , uh {disfmarker} My suggestion is really simple . We start with , um {disfmarker} Now , Let me , uh , say one more thing . What we do know , is that the parser we use in the SmartKomsystem will never differentiate between any of these . So , basically all of these things will result in the same XML M - three - L structure . Sort of action " go " , and then an object .Grad D: Mm - hmm .Grad B: Yeah ?and a source . So it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's way too crude to d capture those differences in intentions . So , I thought , " Mmm ! Maybe for a deep understanding task , that 's a nice sort of playground orfirst little thing . " Where we can start it and n sort of look {disfmarker} " OK , we need , we gonna get those M - three - L structures . The crude , undifferentiated parse . Interpreted input . We may need additional partof speech , or maybe just some information on the verb , and modifiers , auxiliaries . We 'll see . And I will try to {disfmarker} to sort of come up with a list of factors that we need to get out of there , and maybe wewant to get a g switch for the context . So this is not something which we can actually monitor , {vocalsound} now , but just is something we can set . And then you can all imagine sort of a {disfmarker} a constrainedsatisfaction program , depending on {disfmarker} on what , um , comes out . We want to have an {disfmarker} a structure resulting if we feed it through a belief - net or {disfmarker} or something along those lines .We 'd get an inferred intention , we {disfmarker} we produce a structure that differentiates between the Vista , the Enter , and the , um , Tango mode . Which I think we maybe want to ignore . But . That 's my idea . It's up for discussion . We can change all of it , any bit of it . Throw it all away .Grad F: Now @ @ this email that you sent , actually .Professor C: What ?Grad F: Now I remember the email .Professor C: OK .Grad E: Huh .Still , I have no recollection whatsoever of the email . I 'll have to go back and check .Professor C: Not important . So , what is important is that we understand what the proposed task is . And , the {disfmarker} the i uh, Robert and I talked about this some on Friday . And we think it 's well - formed . So we think it 's a well - formed , uh , starter task for this , uh , deeper understanding in the tourist domain .Grad F: So , where exactlyis the , uh , deeper understanding being done ? Like I mean , s is it before the Bayes - net ? Is it , uh {disfmarker}Professor C: Well , it 's the {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's always all of it . So , in general it 'salways going to be , the answer is , everywhere . Uh , so the notion is that , uh , this isn't real deep . But it 's deep enough that you can distinguish between these th three quite different kinds of , uh , going to seesome tourist thing . And , so that 's {disfmarker} that 's the quote " deep " that we 're trying to get at . And , Robert 's point is that the current front - end doesn't give you any way to {disfmarker} Not only doesn't itdo it , but it also doesn't give you enough information to do it . It isn't like , if you just took what the front - end gives you , and used some clever inference algorithm on it , you would be able to figure out which ofthese is going on . So , uh , and this is {disfmarker} Bu - I in general it 's gonna be true of any kind of deep understanding , there 's gonna be contextual things , there 're gonna be linguistic things , there 're gonna bediscourse things , and they gotta be combined . And , my idea on how to combine them is with a belief - net , although it may turn out that t some totally different thing is gonna work better . Um , the idea would bethat {vocalsound} you , uh , take your {disfmarker} You 're editing your slide ?Grad B: Yeah . As i a sort of , as I get ideas , uh w uh .Professor C: Oh .Grad B: So , discourse {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker}I thought about that . Of course that needs to sort of go in there .Professor C: Oh . I 'm sorry . OK . So . This is minutes {disfmarker} taking minutes as we go , in his {disfmarker} in his own way .Grad B: Yep.Professor C: Um , but the p the {disfmarker} Anyway . So the thing is , {vocalsound} i uh , d naively speaking , you 've {disfmarker} you 've got a {disfmarker} for this little task , a belief - net , which is going to haveas output , the conditional pr probability of one of three things , that the person wants to {disfmarker} uh , to View it , to Enter it , or to Tango with it . Um . So that {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the output of thebelief - net is pretty well formed . And , then the inputs are going to be these kinds of things . And , then the question is {disfmarker} there are two questions {disfmarker} is , uh , one , where do you get this i{comment} information from , and two , what 's the structure of the belief - net ? So what are the conditional probabilities of this , that , and the other , given these things ? And you probably need intermediate nodes .I {disfmarker} we don't know what they are yet . So it may well be that , uh , for example , that , uh , knowing whether {disfmarker} Oh , another thing you want is some information abou I think , about the time of


Industrial Designer: Oops That's as far as it goes {vocalsound} .Project Manager: Hi guys uh good morning everybody here . And uh I want to introduce myself , uh my name is uh Shrida Daseri and uh I'm a projectmanager for this new project which we are going to discuss now . So I want to introduce first of all uh the names and the colleagues here . And what you're uh drawing ?User Interface: {vocalsound} Uh sure my nameis Agnes and I'm an user {disfmarker} usability user interface designer .Marketing: {vocalsound} My name is Ed and I do accounting .Project Manager: Uh how you spell your name uh ?Marketing: E_D_ .ProjectManager: E_D_ okay .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: And ?Industrial Designer: Do you also do marketing ?Marketing: {vocalsound} No {vocalsound} .Project Manager: So only accounting ? Okay .Marketing:Accounting , yes .Project Manager: And ?Industrial Designer: And I'm Christine ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: and my role in this uh scenario is to be the industrial designer .Project Manager:Industrial designer .Industrial Designer: But I'm not really one .Project Manager: So who is uh marketing , nobody in the marketMarketing: Marketing is uh , is me {vocalsound} .Project Manager: It's you , okay . Sothanks for coming for the meeting first of all , and uh we have a long time , just twenty-five minutes to discuss about uh this project and the the project initiation . First of all I want to ask uh Mister Ed about your uhmarketing plan and your product plan and uh {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Well I think that we'll see that throughout the day in how we're going to put this together as a marketing to to market the product .We'll have to see on a through discussion on where we're gonna go from here and from {disfmarker} with this .Project Manager: Mm-hmm but uh do you already have like a functional design or a technical design or{disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Uh for the moment not yet .Project Manager: Oh for the moment not yet , okay , but uh what's what's your uh {disfmarker} do you have some project plan , something with youor {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Good question {vocalsound} . No , this is like I said that we have to be discussed between all of us and we'll go from there . We'll have to {disfmarker} simply we'll have towork on it together .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Okay , so uh by when you think you can uh give me some kind of uh project plan , okay , a discussion with uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Certainly by the next meeting.Project Manager: By next meeting , okay that will be great . Uh Okay , so there's any questions or uh first of all about uh this project ?Industrial Designer: What is the goal of the project ?Project Manager: Uh the goalof the project I think maybe I'll uh hand out to the Ed , okay , so to explain uh what is the project because he's in the sales and the accounting .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: I'min the sales I'm supposed to explain them what to do {vocalsound} . We have to define exactly what our product is , from uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yes , so can you explain uh what exactly the product is?Marketing: From what I had in mind we're supposed to be marketing coffee , is that right ?Project Manager: Oh I think uh , if I'm not wrong , we're making the remote control .User Interface: Um I was wondering{disfmarker}Marketing: Remote controls , 'cause I had two different things . I had a first part of mine was to make a remote control for a new f remote control for television , and afterward I had a discussion aboutcoffee so {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yes .Marketing: we'll start with the remote control for television then . So we're have to design something that is very user friendly .Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Something uh visual that has something that will will draw people to buy the product ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: because I think everybody's experienced with uhremote controls , and some remote controls are are worth uh throwing out the window . Uh th most of them ar I don't know we're have to come up with a new idea on how to make it a lot easier to use ,ProjectManager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: 'cause a lot of times uh spend uh half a day through the instruction book trying to figure out how to use it .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: And uhwhat abo uh Christine , what about your uh the industrial design plan ? Are you have a design already on this product or uh you're still working on the design ?Industrial Designer: Um no , I I have not begun working onthe design ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: and um I uh I actually didn't know we were designing a remote control , I thought we were designing a new monitor . Um the website I went to look at hadsome announcements about an introduction of a um uh some sort of a seven inch um monitor , and um I understood that that was the project goal . So um I'm glad I didn't d do any work um ahead of time because uh Iclearly didn't understand the project goal .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: Um I just did s see that we were starting a new project together and there was going to be a four member team composed of thesepeople , and um that's about uh that's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: and I I read through the different steps , and what my responsibilities were relative to the steps .Project Manager: Souh you'll be leading the team for your design team or how many members is working in the team , for the design ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh for the industrial design ?Project Manager: Yes .IndustrialDesigner: Um well , I would th think that depends on how much money you give us .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: That's {gap}Industrial Designer: Um because uh , you know , youcan uh you can make it uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} you have different choices with different financial models .Project Manager: Yeah , but uh before we talk about uh the finance , okay , uh do you have some ideahow we can uh sell this product or project in the market and how much is going to benefit to the company and uh of course it's to the individual also .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well , you know um , I kind ofthink that in general you have to do uh um y you have to have something that's very fashionable , that's uh very attractive {disfmarker} that um people see and recognize uh its goal , and uh they immediately wannahave it uh have one of their own . So it would {disfmarker} really would need to um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} something like the iPod would be good , seems to have caught on fairly well ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: so um d uh you know , I don't care what it does , just so it looks cool .Project Manager: Okay , but uh uh when you think you can give me like a kind of design on the functional design or thetechnical design ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well , uh I've got a lot of other projects I'm doing right now um and so I'll have to wait and see how those uh how those go . If they uh go quickly then uh it could bea month . If um if I run into any problems in my other projects it might be six months .Project Manager: Yeah , but uh I need something in the writing , so like uh what's your functional design , what's your technicaldesign , and uh how many people you need for this project , and what's the time frame you're looking , okay , and what is the budget , maybe uh initial budget you're looking , okay , and uh how is going to the market ,okay ,Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .Project Manager: so you've you've had to meet with the marketing team and how they're going to market and what are the marketing strategic plan , okay , when areyou going to introduce , okay , and by the time you introduce the product and uh you know there there would be a competition , okay , so I need some kind of uh uh the plan in the writing from you . Okay , and it'spoIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} And when would you like that ?Project Manager: B as soon as possible .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh well if uh if we have enough time uh then d do you think um two weeksis a {disfmarker} is close enough ?Project Manager: Yes I think uh that would be good , because I need to go to the management and uh tell them what we are going to do , and uh what cost is , okay , and what's thetime frame and what's the project plan , because uh without any uh documentations , I cannot go to the management and say , so we are going to do this and we need this much money , okay , so then it's it's difficultfor me to say , okay , that's the reason I need uh some kind of plan from you , initially , okay , then we can have the further discussion again .Industrial Designer: Uh {vocalsound} are there other people who will becontributing to the plan ?Project Manager: Yes , of course , if you need some help , uh so let me know . So , who are the people you need uh from the marketing or uh the technical side or uh the administration point ofview , okay , to add in any documentation , or some technical point of view ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: so just let me know so I can uh coordinate all the teams .Industrial Designer: Okay , I'llget back to you on that .Project Manager: Yes . Thank you . Okay . And uh Ed uh so what's {disfmarker} what do you think about uh this uh project for the remote control and d do you have some already plannedsomething for your marketing strategy or uh the sales strategy ?Marketing: Well not yet other than uh doing research and taking remote controls and looking what other companies have to do uh , what they're building, their designs , their ideas ,Project Manager: {vocalsound} Hmm . {vocalsound}Marketing: uh also have to pinpoint which market we're gonna go into .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: It should be a fairly largemarket because uh the number of people that uh {disfmarker} the competition ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: uh th I agree it has to be something {disfmarker} it has to be something new , it has to besomething that that draws people saying eh , I like this . Whether it works or not , they have to first say I like this , I like the design , and then it's gotta be simple to use .Project Manager: Yes , so what I uh prefermaybe uh you need to interact uh more with the Christine , okay , because you know what she is going to do it , okay , and you know how to sell it . Okay , because uh she is doing the design , but you are the corebecause you are in the marketing , okay ,Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: so because you need to sell {disfmarker} and you're the responsible for the all the money , the finance , okay , tomorrow .Marketing:Mm-hmm .Project Manager: So , what I prefer , okay , so you need to interact with the Christine more and uh within her team , okay , who is using the functional design or technical design , okay ,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: and uh you need to come up with some kind of plan , okay , how we are going to do the {disfmarker} your sales plan , okay , thMarketing: Do we already have a cost limit on this , th an idea of howmuch uh we want to market this for , how much it's gonna sell for ,Project Manager: Th That {disfmarker} that'sMarketing: that's up that's up to us to decide , eh ? {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yes , that's{disfmarker} you have to decide , okay , so the best thing is you {disfmarker} uh both of uh the Christine and you discuss with yourself , okay , and come up with the cost , and how we are going to compete in themarket , okay , in the the technically , or in the sales wise , okay , the commercial wise , okay . Then uh we have to design , okay , how long it will take the whole project , okay , how much is going to cost us , and howmuch we are going to benefit for the company . Okay , of course it's it's uh of benefit for everybody individually . Okay , so I think it's uh maybe if we can uh give me some kind of your uh the sales plan , okay ,including the technical what uh she's going to talk to you within the team , okay , then it will help me to discuss with the management for further , okay , and put it in the the proper project plan . Okay , and if you needuh any coordination in between uh compared to the maybe the some technical vendors or commercial vendors , okay , depends if you want to have some uh uh marketing plan or technical plan , okay , so you let meknow .Marketing: {vocalsound} Very good .Project Manager: Okay , I can coordinate ,Marketing: Very good .Project Manager: or maybe uh , you are my coordinator , am I right ?User Interface: Mm .Project Manager:Between uh all the coorUser Interface: Well , no , not exactly . I mean my job from what I understood was to look at the usability requirements and make sure that the product is usable , it's acceptable to the peoplewho are gonna use it and look at the best ways to do that .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: So I think I'll have to interact with Christine and discuss with her , so that she's not designing something that mystudies will show right off the bat that it's not going to work ,Project Manager: Th Christine , yeah {vocalsound} . Which is {disfmarker}User Interface: and so it's sort of {disfmarker} it's a loop that feeds in , but Idon't think necessarily that I'm in a coordinating position for it .Project Manager: Yes . Yeah , so basically you need to interact with Christine more , okay , for the user acceptability , okay , and the testing , okay ,UserInterface: Yeah . Mm-hmm .Project Manager: then you will {disfmarker}User Interface: Which will also feed into the marketing ,Project Manager: Yes .User Interface: because depending on what users want , dependson how you sell it , what tag lines you attach to it , how you try to make it more attractive to users .Project Manager: Yes . Yeah . Yeah . Yeah .User Interface: So I think all three groups will need to interact quite a bit .Um , and then I guess build the plan based on all of that , because I think you need to take all the factors into account .Project Manager: Yep . But what I request , okay , {gap} keep Ed in the loop , okay , in betweenyour uh meeting and Christine meeting , because uh he should know what's happening .User Interface: Yeah , of course {vocalsound} . Yeah , we can C_C_ him on any discussions or documents that are passed around.Project Manager: Yes . Okay and please please copy all the mails , okay , all the discussions to me , okay , so I need to submit to the management .User Interface: Sure . No problem .Project Manager: So anyquestions for uh time being ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: No .User Interface: So , the immediate next step is to start determining the functional design , orProject Manager: Yes .User Interface:{disfmarker} okay .Project Manager: Okay . To come up with the functional design and uh to discuss with Ed , okay , and how it's going to be work , and uh first of all with your user acceptance , okay , how it looks likeand how it's going to be work in the market , okay ,User Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: so then we can discuss about uh further things . So , we'll meet when the {disfmarker} we'll discuss on the furthermeeting .User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: It's okay ? Thanks for coming .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Would you mind um at the conclusion of our meeting could could you send us a copy ofyour slides ?Project Manager: Yes , I will . Yes .User Interface: Mm-hmm , yeah , that would be useful .Project Manager: I'll copy , uh le let us keep all the emails and all the copies , okay , share each other , okay , soyou know everybody what's happening , okay ?User Interface: Sure .Project Manager: And if anything you need anytime so please either you can call me , or just send me email , or uh just come and uh knock my door, okay , so I'm available here . It's good ? Okay , thanks for coming and uh I wish you a nice time then .User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: Thank you .User Interface: Thanks .Project Manager: Okay , see youlater . Bye .User Interface: Thank you .