Professor B: OK So uh today we 're looking at a number of uh things we 're trying and uh fortunately for listeners to this uh we lost some of it 's visual but um got tables in front of us . Um what is {disfmarker} whatdoes combo mean ?PhD C: So combo is um a system where we have these features that go through a network and then this same string of features but low - pass filtered with the low - pass filter used in the MSGfeatures . And so these low - pass filtered goes through M eh {disfmarker} another MLP and then the linear output of these two MLP 's are combined just by adding the values and then there is this KLT . Um the outputis used as uh features as well .Professor B: Um so let me try to restate this and see if I have it right . There is uh {disfmarker} there is the features uh there 's the OGI features and then um those features um gothrough a contextual {disfmarker} uh l l let 's take this bottom arr one pointed to by the bottom arrow . Um those features go through a contextualized KLT . Then these features also uh get um low - pass filteredPhD C:Yeah . Yeah so yeah I could perhaps draw this on the blackboardProfessor B: Sure . Yeah . Yeah .PhD C: Yeah .PhD D: The graph , yeah another one .Professor B: Yeah , that 's good .PhD C: Professor B: SoPhD C: Sowe have these features from OGI that goes through the three paths .Professor B: Yeah . Three , OK .PhD C: The first is a KLT using several frames of the features .Professor B: Yeah . Yeah .PhD C: The second path is uhMLP also using nine frames {disfmarker} several frames of featuresProfessor B: Yeah . Uh - huh .PhD C: The third path is this low - pass filter .Professor B: Uh - huh .PhD C: Uh , MLPProfessor B: Aha ! aha !PhD C:Adding the outputs just like in the second propose the {disfmarker} the proposal from {disfmarker} for the first evaluation .Professor B: Yeah ? Yeah . Yeah .PhD C: And then the KLT and then the two together again.Professor B: No , the KLT . And those two together . That 's it .PhD D: Two HTK .Professor B: OK so that 's {disfmarker} that 's this bottom one .PhD C: Um . So this is {disfmarker} yeahProfessor B: And so uh andthen the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the one at the top {disfmarker} and I presume these things that uh are in yellow are in yellow because overall they 're the best ?PhD C: Yeah that 's the reason , yeah .ProfessorB: Oh let 's focus on them then so what 's the block diagram for the one above it ?PhD C: For the f the f first yellow line you mean ?Professor B: Yeah .PhD C: Yeah so it 's uh basically s the same except that we don'thave this uh low - pass filtering so we have only two streams .PhD D: Step .PhD C: Well . There 's {disfmarker} there 's no low {disfmarker} low - pass processing used as additional feature stream .Professor B: Mm -hmm . Mm - hmm .PhD C: UmProfessor B: Do you e um they mentioned {disfmarker} made some {disfmarker} uh when I was on the phone with Sunil they {disfmarker} they mentioned some weighting scheme thatwas used to evaluate all of these numbers .PhD C: Yeah . Uh actually the way things seems to um well it 's uh forty percent for TI - digit , sixty for all the SpeechDat - Cars , well all these languages . Ehm the well matchis forty , medium thirty five and high mismatch twenty - five . Yeah .Professor B: Um and we don't have the TI - digits part yet ?PhD C: Uh , no .Professor B: OK .PhD C: But yeah . Generally what you observe with TI -digits is that the result are very close whatever the {disfmarker} the system .Professor B: OK . And so have you put all these numbers together into a single number representing that ?PhD C: Yeah .Professor B: I meannot {disfmarker}PhD C: Uh not yet .Professor B: OK so that should be pretty easy to do and that would be good {disfmarker}PhD C: No . Mmm yeah , yeah .Professor B: then we could compare the two and say whatwas better .PhD C: Mmm . Yeah .Professor B: Um and how does this compare to the numbers {disfmarker} oh so OGI two is just the top {disfmarker} top row ?PhD D: Yeah .PhD C: So yeah to {disfmarker} actuallyOGI two is the {disfmarker} the baseline with the OGI features but this is not exactly the result that they have because they 've {disfmarker} they 're still made some changes in the featuresProfessor B: OK .PhD C:and {disfmarker} well but uh actually our results are better than their results . Um I don't know by how much because they did not send us the new resultsProfessor B: OK .PhD C: UhProfessor B: Uh OK so the one{disfmarker} one place where it looks like we 're messing things up a bit is in the highly mismatched Italian .PhD C: Yeah . Yeah .Professor B: AnPhD C: Yeah there is something funny happening here because{disfmarker} yeah .Professor B: Yeah .PhD C: But there are thirty - six and then sometimes we are {disfmarker} we are {disfmarker} we are around forty - two andProfessor B: Now upPhD C: butProfessor B: Uh soone of the ideas that you had mentioned last time was having a {disfmarker} a second um silence detection .PhD C: Yeah . So there are some results herePhD D: For the Italian .PhD C: uh so the third and the fifth lineof the tablePhD D: For this one .Professor B: So filt is what that is ?PhD C: Filt , yeahPhD D: Yeah .PhD C: Um yeah so it seems f for the {disfmarker} the well match and mismatched condition it 's uh it bringssomething . Uh but uh actually apparently there are {disfmarker} there 's no room left for any silence detector at the server side because of the delay . Uh wellProfessor B: Oh we can't do it . Oh OK .PhD C: No .PhD D:For that {disfmarker} for that we {disfmarker}Professor B: Oh .PhD C: UhProfessor B: Too bad . Good idea , but can't do it .PhD C: Yeah .Professor B: OK .PhD C: Except I don't know because they {disfmarker} I thinkthey are still working well .Professor B: Uh - huh .PhD C: Uh t two days ago they were still working on this trying to reduce the delay of the silence detector so but yeah if we had time perhaps we could try to find uhsome kind of compromise between the delay that 's on the handset and on the server side . Perhaps try to reduce the delay on the handset and {disfmarker} but well hmm For the moment they have this large delay onthe {disfmarker} the feature computation and so we don'tProfessor B: OK . So Alright so for now at least that 's not there you have some results with low - pass filter cepstrum doesn't have a huge effect but it{disfmarker} but it looks like it you know maybe could help in a couple places .PhD C: I thProfessor B: Uh little bit .PhD C: Yeah .Professor B: Um and um um Yeah and uh let 's see What else did we have in there ? Uh Iguess it makes a l um at this point this is I {disfmarker} I guess I should probably look at these others a little bit uh And you {disfmarker} you yellowed these out uh but uh uh Oh I see yeah that {disfmarker} that oneyou can't use because of the delay . Those look pretty good . Um let 's see that one Well even the {disfmarker} just the {disfmarker} the second row doesn't look that bad right ? That 's just uh yeah ?PhD C: Yep.Professor B: And {disfmarker} and that looks like an interesting one too .PhD D: Mmm yeah .Professor B: UhPhD C: Actually the {disfmarker} yeah the second line is uh pretty much like the first line in yellow exceptthat we don't have this KLT on the first {disfmarker} on the left part of the diagram . We just have the features as they are .Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD C: UmProfessor B: Yeah . Yeah so when we do this weightedmeasure we should compare the two cuz it might even come out better . And it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's a little {disfmarker} slightly simpler .PhD C: Mm - hmm . Yeah .Professor B: So {disfmarker} sothere 's {disfmarker} so I {disfmarker} I would put that one also as a {disfmarker} as a maybe . Uh and it {disfmarker} yeah and it 's actually {vocalsound} does {disfmarker} does significantly better on the uh uhhighly mismatched Italian , so s and little worse on the mis on the MM case , but uh Well yeah it 's worse than a few thingsPhD C: Mm - hmm .Professor B: so uh let 's see how that c that c c see how that comes out ontheir {disfmarker} their measure and {disfmarker} are {disfmarker} are we running this uh for TI - digits or uhPhD C: Yeah .Professor B: Now is TI di {disfmarker} is is that part of the result that they get for the uhdevelopment {disfmarker} th the results that they 're supposed to get at the end of {disfmarker} end of the month , the TI - digits are there also ?PhD C: Yeah . Yeah . It 's included , yeah .Professor B: Oh OK . OK .And see what else there is here . Um Oh I see {disfmarker} the one {disfmarker} I was looking down here at the {disfmarker} the o the row below the lower yellowed one . Uh that 's uh that 's with the reduced uh KLTsize {disfmarker} reduced dimensionality .PhD C: Mm - hmm ? Yeah . Yeah .Professor B: What happens there is it 's around the same and so you could reduce the dimension as you were saying before a bit perhaps.PhD C: Yeah , it 's {disfmarker} it 's significantly worse well but {disfmarker} Mm - hmm .Professor B: It 's significantly worse {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's uh it 's {disfmarker} it 's mostly worse .PhD C: Exc -except for the HMPhD D: For many a mismatch it 's worse .PhD C: butProfessor B: Yeah . But it is little . I mean not {disfmarker} not by a huge amount , I don't know . What are {disfmarker} what are the sizes of anyof these sets , I {disfmarker} I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm sure you told me before , but I 've forgotten . So {disfmarker} you know how many words are in uh one of these test sets ?PhD C: UhPhD D: I don't remember.Professor B: About ?PhD C: Um it 's {disfmarker} it depends {disfmarker} well {disfmarker} the well matched is generally larger than the other sets and I think it 's around two thousand or three thousand wordsperhaps , at least .PhD D: Ye But words {disfmarker} well word {disfmarker} I don't know .PhD C: Hmm ? The words , yeah . S sentences .PhD D: Sentences .PhD C: Some sets have five hundred sentences , so .PhDD: Yeah .Professor B: So the {disfmarker} so the sets {disfmarker} so the test sets are between five hundred and two thousand sentences , let 's sayPhD C: Mmm .Professor B: and each sentence on the average hasfour or five digits or is it {disfmarker} most of them longer orPhD C: Yeah .PhD D: Yeah for the Italian even seven digits y more or lessPhD C: It {disfmarker} it d Seven digits .PhD D: but sometime the sentence haveonly one digit and sometime uh like uh the number of uh credit cards , something like that .Professor B: Mm - hmm . Right , so between one and sixteen . See the {disfmarker} I mean the reason I 'm asking is{disfmarker} is {disfmarker} is we have all these small differences and I don't know how seriously to take them , right ?PhD C: Mm - hmm ?Professor B: So uh i if {disfmarker} if you had uh just you know {disfmarker}to give an example , if you had uh um if you had a thousand words then uh a {disfmarker} a tenth of a percent would just be one word ,PhD C: Yeah .Professor B: right ? So {disfmarker} so it wouldn't mean anything.PhD D: Yeah .Professor B: OhPhD C: Yeah .Professor B: um so um yeah it be kind of {disfmarker} I 'd kind of like to know what the sizes of these test sets were actually .PhD C: Yeah .PhD D: The size that we have?PhD C: We could {disfmarker} we could run {disfmarker} run some kind of significance testsProfessor B: Yeah since these {disfmarker} well also just to know the numbers ,PhD C: orPhD D: Yeah .Professor B: right .So these {disfmarker} these are word error ratesPhD C: Yeah .Professor B: so this is on how many words .PhD C: Yep .PhD D: Yeah we have the result that the output of the HTKProfessor B: Yeah .PhD D: The numberof {disfmarker} of sentences , no it 's the number isn't .PhD C: Yeah sure {disfmarker} sure . Yeah sure .Professor B: Yeah so anyway if you could just mail out what those numbers are and then {disfmarker} then{disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that be great .PhD C: Yeah .PhD D: Yeah .Professor B: Um {vocalsound} what else is there here ? Um see the second {disfmarker} second from the bottom it says SIL , but this is somedifferent kind of silence or thing or {disfmarker} what was that ?PhD C: UhPhD D: It the {disfmarker} the output silence of the MLP .PhD C: Oh yeah I see .PhD D: It 's only one small experiment to know whathappened . To apply also to in include also the {disfmarker} the silence of the MLP we have the fifty - six form and the silence to pick up the silence and we include those .Professor B: Yes . Uh - huh , uh - huh . Thesilence plus the KLT output ? Oh so you 're only using the silence .PhD C: Yeah .PhD D: Yeah , because when we apply the KLTPhD C: No they 're {disfmarker} I think there is this silence in addition to the um KLToutputsProfessor B: No .PhD D: in addition , yes .PhD C: it is because we {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we just keep uh we don't keep all the dimensions after the KLTPhD D: In addition tPhD C: and {disfmarker} yeah.PhD D: and we not s we are not sure if we pick {disfmarker} we have the silence .PhD C: So we try to add the silence also in addition to the {disfmarker} these twenty - eight dimensions .Professor B: I see . OK . Andwhat {disfmarker} and what 's OGI forty - five ? The bottom one there ?PhD C: Uh it 's o it 's OGI two , it 's {disfmarker} so the {disfmarker} th it 's the features from the first linePhD D: It 's in fact OGI two .ProfessorB: SPhD C: and {disfmarker} yeah .Professor B: Right , but I mean what 's the {disfmarker} what does the last row mean ?PhD C: So it 's uh basically this but without the KLT on the {disfmarker} from the left path.Professor B: I thought that was the one {disfmarker} I thought that was the second row . So what 's the difference between the secondPhD C: Uh the second line you don't have this combo stuff so you justProfessor B:Oh .PhD C: uhProfessor B: So this is like the second line but with {disfmarker} with the combo stuff .PhD C: Yeah . Yeah .PhD D: And with the {disfmarker} all the output of the combo .Professor B: OK . Yeah .PhD C:Yeah .PhD D: UhProfessor B: OK , so {disfmarker} alright so it looks to me {disfmarker} I guess the same {disfmarker} given that we have to take the filt ones out of the {disfmarker} the running because of this delayproblem {disfmarker} so it looks to me like the ones you said I agree are {disfmarker} are the ones to look atPhD C: Mm - hmm .Professor B: but I just would add the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the second rowonePhD C: Yeah .Professor B: and then um if we can umPhD C: Mmm .Professor B: oh yeah also when {disfmarker} when they 're using this weighting scheme of forty , thirty - five , twenty - five is that on thepercentages or on the raw errors ? I guess it 's probably on the percentages right ?PhD C: Uh {vocalsound} I guess , yeah .Professor B: Yeah OK .PhD C: I guess , yeah . Mmm .Professor B: Alright .PhD C: It 's not clearhere .Professor B: OK . Maybe {disfmarker} maybe they 'll argue about it . Um OK so if we can know what {disfmarker} how many words are in each and then um Dave uh Dave promised to get us something tomorrowwhich will be there as far as they 've gotten {vocalsound} FridayPhD C: Mm - hmm .Professor B: and then we 'll operate with thatPhD C: Yeah .Professor B: and uh how long did it I guess if we 're not doing all thesethings {disfmarker} if we 're only doing um um I guess since this is development data it 's legitimate to do more than one , right ? I mean ordinarily if {disfmarker} in final test data you don't want to do several and{disfmarker} and take the bestPhD C: Yeah . Mmm .Professor B: that 's {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} that 's not proper but if this is development data we could still look at a couple .PhD C: Yeah . We can{disfmarker} yeah . Sure . But we have to decide {disfmarker} I mean we have to fix the system on this d on this data , to choose the bestProfessor B: Yeah . I Right .PhD C: and theseProfessor B: But the question iswhen {disfmarker} when do we fix the system ,PhD C: But we couldProfessor B: do we fix the system uh tomorrow or do we fix the system on Tuesday ?PhD C: it dProfessor B: I {disfmarker} Yeah , OK except that wedo have to write it up .PhD C: I think we fixed on Tuesday , yeah . Yeah . Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .Professor B: Also , soPhD C: Yeah . Yeah .Professor B: UmPhD C: Uh yeah well . Well basically it 's this with perhapssome kind of printing and some {disfmarker} some other @ @ .Professor B: Right so maybe what we do is we {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we uh as soon as we get the data from them we start the training and soforthPhD C: Yeah but Mm - hmm .Professor B: but we start the write - up right away because as you say there {disfmarker} there 's only minor differences between these .PhD C: I think you {disfmarker} we could{disfmarker} we could start soon , yeah .Professor B: Yeah .PhD C: Write up something .Professor B: Yeah , and {disfmarker} and I {disfmarker} I would {disfmarker} you know , I would {disfmarker} I 'd kind of liketo see itPhD C: Um yeah . Mm - hmm .Professor B: maybe I can {disfmarker} I can edit it a bit uh sure . The {disfmarker} my {disfmarker} what in this si i in this situation is my forte which is English .PhD C: Yeah.Professor B: Uh soPhD C: Mmm .Professor B: uh H yeah . Have y have you seen alt d do they have a format for how they want the system descriptions or anything ?PhD C: Uh not really .Professor B: OK .PhD C: UmThere is the format of the table which is {vocalsound} quite impressive .Professor B: Yeah ? Uh I see . Yes , for those who are listening to this and not looking at it uh it 's not really that impressive , it 's just tiny . It 'sall these little categories set a , set b , set c , multi - condition , clean . Uh No mitigation . Wow . Do you know what no {disfmarker} what no mitigation means here ?PhD C: Um it should be the the problem with theerror {disfmarker} channel errorProfessor B: Oh that 's probably the {disfmarker}PhD C: orProfessor B: this is probably channel error stuffPhD C: well , you {disfmarker}Professor B: huh ? Oh this is i right , it saysright above here channel {disfmarker} channel error resilience ,PhD C: Yeah . Yeah .Professor B: yeah . So recognition performance is just the top part , actually . Uh and they have {disfmarker} yes , split betweenseen databases and non - seen so basically between development and {disfmarker} and evaluation .PhD C: Yeah .Professor B: And {vocalsound} so {disfmarker} right , it 's presumed there 's all sorts of tuning that 'sgone on on the see what they call seen databases and there won't be tuning for the uh unseen . Multi - condition {disfmarker} multi - condition . So they have {disfmarker} looks like they have uh uhPhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: so they splitting up between the TI - digits and everything else , I see . So the everything else is the SpeechDat - Car , that 's the multi multilingualPhD C: Yeah , so it 's not divided between languages youmean or {disfmarker}Professor B: Well , it is .PhD C: it justProfessor B: It is , but there 's also {disfmarker} there 's these tables over here for the {disfmarker} for the TI - digits and these tables over here for the cardata which is {disfmarker} which is I guess all the multilingual stuffPhD C: Oh yeah .Professor B: and then uh there 's {disfmarker} they also split up between multi - condition and clean only .PhD C: Yeah . For TI -digits .Professor B: Yes .PhD C: Yeah , actually yeah . For the TI - digits they want to train on clean and on noisyProfessor B: Yeah .PhD C: and {disfmarker} yeah .Professor B: So we 're doing that also , I guess .PhD C:Uh yeah . But uh we actually {disfmarker} do we have the features ? Yeah . For the clean TI - digits but we did not test it yet . Uh the clean training stuff .Professor B: OK .PhD C: Mmm .Professor B: Well anyway ,sounds like there 'll be a lot to do just to {vocalsound} work with our partners to fill out the tables {vocalsound} over the next uh next few daysPhD C: Mm - hmm .PhD D: Yes .Professor B: I guess they have to send itout {disfmarker} let 's see the thirty - first is uh uh Wednesday and I think the {disfmarker} it has to be there by some hour uh European time on WednesdayPhD C: Hmm - hmm .Professor B: so {vocalsound} I thinkbasicallyPhD D: We lost time uh Wednesday maybe because {vocalsound} that the difference in the time may be {disfmarker} is a long different of the time .Professor B: E excuse me ?PhD D: Maybe the Thursday thetwelfth of the night of the Thurs - thirty - one is {disfmarker} is not valid in Europe .PhD C: Yeah .PhD D: We don't know is happening .Professor B: Yes , so I mean {disfmarker} I think we have to actually get it doneTuesdayPhD D: Tuesday .Professor B: right because I {disfmarker} I thinkPhD C: Yeah , well .Professor B: uh UhPhD C: Except if {disfmarker} if it 's the thirty - one at midnight or I don't know {disfmarker} we can{vocalsound} still do some work on Wednesday morning .Professor B: yeah well . W i is but is {disfmarker} is it midni I thought it was actually something like five PM on {disfmarker}PhD C: Yeah , well . Yeah .PhD D:


Project Manager: Okay . Uh good afternoon . This is our third meeting already .Marketing: Good afternoon .Project Manager: I hope you enjoyed your lunch . {vocalsound} I did anyway . {vocalsound} Um let's see .Presentation three . Okay this is um the second phase uh we're going to discuss today . It's the conceptual design meeting . And a few points of interest in this meeting um are the conceptual specification ofcomponents . Uh conceptual specification of design . And also trend-watching . Um these are hopefully the points you addressed in uh your pre uh presentations you're going to show me in a few minutes . Um but firstI'll show you the agenda . Uh first the opening . Then we have three presentations . Uh after that we have to come to a decision on remote control concepts . How we're going to make it . And then we're closing . Wehave about forty minutes . Uh so I suggest let's get started . Uh did someone encounter any problems during the preparation ? No ?User Interface: No .Project Manager: Everything fine ?Marketing: {gap}ProjectManager: That's nice . Then a little uh thing about the last meeting . Uh these are the points um we agreed on . The requirements and the target market . Uh requirements are uh teletext , docking station , audio signal, small screen , with some extras that uh button information . And we are going to use default materials . Um does somebody have any comments on these requirements ? Maybe ? No ? These are just the the things wethought of , so maybe if you figured something else or thought of something else , just let me know . And maybe we can uh work it out . And we're going to target uh sixty to to eighty year old customers . So noweverybody knows what we're do we're doing , um I suggest let's get started with the presentations . So shall we keep the same uh line-up as uh last time ?Marketing: Sure .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: I'll startoff then .Project Manager: Good luck . {vocalsound}Marketing: Doh . 'Kay I'm uh gonna inform you about the trend-watching I've done over the past few days . Um we've done some market research . We distributedsome more enquetes , questionnaires . And um besides that um I deployed some trend-watchers to Milan and Paris to well get all of the newest trends . And I've consulted some additional trend-watch trend-watchers ,after the original trend-watchers return , about what the the best design would be . Um okay these are some overall findings . Um most important thing is the fancy design . Um the research indicated that that was byfar the most important factor . Um innovativeness was about half as important as the fancy design . By innovativeness this means um functions which are not featured in other remote controls . Um about half of , halfas important as the innovativeness was the was easy to use . Um for our um group , we're focusing on the people of sixty to eighty y years old , this is um , these factors are slightly more equal . 'Kay these are somemore group specific findings . Uh the older people prefer dark colours . Uh they like recognisable shapes , and familiar material . And our surveys have indicated that especially wood is pretty much the material for olderpeople . Um this is , this image will give you a little bit of an impression about um the look-and-feel that um the remote should have . Um this leads us to some personal preferences . Uh the remote control and thedocking station should uh blend in in the in the room . Um so this would mean no uh eye-catching designs . Just keep it simple and {disfmarker} Well the docking station and small screen would be our main points ofinterest , because this would be the {disfmarker} These would uh be the innovativeness in the remote control . So this would be very important that we {vocalsound} at least include these features . Um well thetrend-watchers I consulted advised that it b should be , the remote control and the docking station should be telephone-shaped . So you could imagine that uh the remote control will be standing up straight in thedocking station . This is not really {disfmarker} This is pretty much a new shape to uh older people . So they would prefer uh a design where the remote control just lies flat in the docking station . So it would be kindamore telephone-shaped . Um besides that we would advise um to bring two editions , one with a wood-like colour and maybe feel , and one with a grey-black colour . The wood-like for the more uh exclusive people .People with more money . Uh the grey-black colour for well people with less means . That would be all .Project Manager: Okay . Thank you . Any questions about the the trends ?Marketing: Any questions ?ProjectManager: MaybUser Interface: Mm no .Project Manager: No ? Okay , we go on to the next one .User Interface: {gap}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Um {vocalsound} 'kay um yeah . {gap} uh some uhresearch uh a about um designing of an interface . Um the uh last meeting uh we had a about um uh using a f few buttons . So uh um uh that's w what I what I want to uh uh to do in uh our design . So um finding anattractive uh way to control uh the remote control . Um the uh {disfmarker} I found some uh something about uh speech uh recognition . So maybe uh we can uh use uh that . Um {disfmarker} Uh and uh using a littleuh display . So um findings . Um yeah just um we have just to focus on the primary um functions . So uh only uh buttons uh for uh sound , um for uh on-off , um uh shifting u up uh sa uh ca channel or uh down shiftingdown . Um uh let's see . Um yeah and {disfmarker} Uh {gap} we uh need some uh new a attractive functions uh uh which attract uh uh people for using it . So uh it's uh like a speak uh speech uh recognition and um aspecial button for selecting uh subtitles . Just uh what we uh mentioned uh last uh meeting . Um and yeah overall um user-friendly . So uh using uh large large buttons . Um {disfmarker} It's uh possible to uh uh tomake um quite cheap uh system for uh speech uh recognition . Um you can think about um uh when you lost your um remote control , you can uh call it and um it gives an um sig signal . So uh uh yeah . And and uh foruh shifting up a sen uh c ch channel or uh for um uh putting out uh sound or something , you can uh just give a sign uh say um sound off or {disfmarker} A and uh yeah . Television uh put the sound off uh put thesound off uh . Um {disfmarker} Let's see . Uh yeah . I was thinking about the special uh button for uh subtitles , um just one button to keep it uh simple . Uh one push on the button uh you get uh uh small uh subtitles .Um double push push um , if double click , um so uh you get uh big uh subtitles , for uh people uh um uh which c f uh who can't uh read small uh subtitles . So uh {disfmarker} Um {disfmarker} Yeah and w we have tokeep uh in general buttons uh so um we've got um the buttons we have to use . The on-off , sound on-off , sound higher or lower , um the numbers , uh zero to uh uh nine . Um the general buttons m more general bone button for shifting up and shifting down uh channel . Um also we want to uh use a little d display uh for um for displaying the uh the functions of the buttons . And um we can uh build in a function f which uh showsthe channel or some uh which the t television is on . So um made a little uh picture of uh it . Um {disfmarker} See . Um yeah . Just um we can put uh the on-off button uh over in this uh corner , um almost uh e all uhremote controls uh are using a on-off button on that place . Um so uh people uh will uh recognise uh um the button .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: So um {disfmarker} D display uh of it , it's uh justa small display . Uh um you can put it uh on top . Um it's uh most uh uh place where people uh , most of {gap} looks at . So uh um and a special uh button for shifting up uh and uh shifting down uh channel , um it's uhon place where um the thumb of of the {disfmarker} So you you can uh easily uh shift up or shift down . Um it's uh quite uh handy place . So um and uh all the f functions for subtitle uh one button , uh for sound uh{disfmarker} Uh and uh for our design , um uh we have to discuss about it uh I think uh so uh the form of it so {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: And that's it .Project Manager: Uh thank you .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay . About the components design . Um for the energy source we can use a basic battery or , a as an optional thing , a kinetic energy , like in a watch , which you just shake and itproduces energy . But if we choose for that option , the docking station would c become obsolete . So I don't think it's really an option . Uh for the casing , uh the uh manufacturing department can deliver uh a flatcasing , single or double curved casing . It's really up the the design that we're gonna use . It's uh doesn't uh imply any technical restrictions . Uh as a case supplement , we could um , I thought of that l later , uh arubber uh belt , like a anti-slip . Uh for the b buttons , we can use plastic or rubber . And the chip-set , um it says simple here , but it should be advanced , because we're using an L_C_D_ uh screen . And as uh thetrend-watcher presentation showed , um people like wood , but it raises the price and it doesn't really fit the image , unless we would start two product lines . Form should follow function overall . Um well the kineticenergy source is rather fancy . But depends on what we want . I think we should disc discuss that . Um for the case , uh the supplement and the buttons , it really depends on the designer . And the chip-set uh reallyshould be advanced because otherwise uh it would really be a simple uh remote control . And that's it .Project Manager: Okay . Thank you . So that brings us to the discussion about our concepts . Mm .Marketing:{vocalsound}Project Manager: 'Kay . So these are the points we have to discuss . Um first I think we can talk about the energy source , since that's um has a pretty big influence on production price , uh and image.User Interface: {gap}Project Manager: Uh so uh f I think first of all we have to see uh it is possible to introduce kinetic energy in our budget , I think .Industrial Designer: Yes w there there are four options . We coulduse the basic normal battery .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Uh a hand dynamo .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay {gap} . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: But I don't think that's {vocalsound} reallyan option .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: You don't wanna swing before you can watch television .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah .Industrial Designer: Uh solar cells .But not every room is very lightUser Interface: Mm .Industrial Designer: so it's not a very good option .Project Manager: No .Industrial Designer: Or the kinetic energy .Project Manager: Yeah . Okay .Marketing: Andhow exactly does the kinetic energy work ?Industrial Designer: Well y you basically shake your remote , and then it powers up .Marketing: You just {disfmarker} You use it and it works .User Interface:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Nah .Marketing: Okay . Well personally I don't think that older people like to shake their remote control before they use it .User Interface:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah . That's true .Marketing: And besides that you mentioned it would make the docking station obsolete .Industrial Designer: Oh .Marketing: And I think our dockingstation could be one of the marketing issues with which we can um get great popularity for our product .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: ButMarketing: Um welUser Interface: what's the function ? Yeah f forloading up uh the batteries {gap} .Marketing: Yeah you could load up the batteries ,User Interface: B bMarketing: you could um insert the find the lost remote control function in there .User Interface: Okay but uh itwon't use uh much e energy uh I I believe . Uh it's uh just a small display so I believe uh it will run on one battery for um six months or f or or more . So I believe one battery uh is just enough .Project Manager: Uh{disfmarker}User Interface: Uh so {disfmarker}Project Manager: Uh well I think uh elderly people just like to have everything in place .Marketing: That's true . {vocalsound}Project Manager: And I don't think they theylike uh remotes just laying everywhere in their rooms .User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: So maybe a docking station will help them give the remote a place .User Interface: Yeah . That's true . Yeah .ProjectManager: And also what you said . Um you can introduce voice recognition by uh finding back your remote .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: But I think it's um more efficient and cheaper to put it in thedocking station .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: So you have a but button on your docking station which you can push , and then it starts beeping .User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: And then we can wecan still use the voice recognition , but maybe then for only the the channels .User Interface: Yeah . Uh .Project Manager: That's safe .Marketing: I'm wondering um what will the voice recognition mean for theproduction price ?Project Manager: Yeah . That's a good point .Industrial Designer: Mm I don't have any information on pricing . So I'll have to ask the manufacturing department .User Interface: Mm .Marketing: 'Causein our earlier um market research , if you'd allow me to go to the flat board , SMARTboard .Project Manager: Yeah , sure . Go ahead .Marketing: Um so it was open here . Um we also um asked if w they would , if peoplewould pay more for speech recognition in a remote control . Well you can see here , our target group would not do that .Project Manager: No .Marketing: So if that would increase the price for which we're selling ourremote controlUser Interface: Mm .Marketing: I would greatly advise not to do it .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: {gap}Marketing: I think that would be better to uh insert in our other product , that is meant fortheProject Manager: Yeah .Marketing: younger people .User Interface: 'Kay .Industrial Designer: But that would also go for the L_C_D_ screen then I guess . It's a bit higher percentage , but {disfmarker}Marketing:Um well this is Yeah but this is here the question was , would you prefer it . So that doesn't really mean they wouldn't pay extra for it . And on top of that the L_C_D_ screen would um help in making the remote controleasier to use .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Okay .Marketing: And I think a voice recognition function would not make the remote control much easier to use .Project Manager: Easierto use ? No , I think that's a good point .User Interface: But uh is uh our uh research um about um bi large uh L_C_D_ sh uh display , or uh just a small one uh we want to uh use ?Marketing: Um well this was for like anL_C_D_ screen like you would have on a on the the most advanced mobile phones .User Interface: Okay .Marketing: So pretty large .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: I personally think theL_C_D_ screen we wanna use , with the extra information , I think nobody has anything against it . Because it's just uh some extra information ,User Interface: No .Project Manager: and it's easy to ignore as well . So ifyou don't wanna use it you just don't use it .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: And um yeah I think the um {disfmarker} Maybe we have to uh discard the voice recognition . Because it will increase cost uh signifiuh significantly . And I don't think the {disfmarker} I don't think it will be a lot easier to use , as well .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: So that brings us back to the energy . If we don't have the voice recognition, it will it won't use a lot of energy to use . Um {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: So in that case we could use kinetic uh energy , but I think just a simple battery which you can reload on adocking station is just as good . And much cheaper as well .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: And that's the best choice .Project Manager: Okay let me just choose for thebattery . That brings us to the chip .Industrial Designer: Well there isn't any choice there because we're using the the the the display .Project Manager: Just the advanced .Industrial Designer: So it's gotta be advanced.Project Manager: OkayMarketing: 'Kay .Project Manager: {gap} , advanced chip . And then we get to the point of the case . Um which brings us a little bit back to marketing as well . Uh if we wanna choose for wood orthe black and grey . Or both ? Um as we saw there is not {disfmarker} Yeah wood is a lot more expensive to produce .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Um but I think it will attract elderly people who wanna havesomething exclusive , which they can show off to their grandkids .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Look I've got a new remote control , and uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh Idunno .Marketing: Well {disfmarker} {vocalsound} And I think most important factor there is the wooden colour . So it wouldn't actually have to be wood ,Project Manager: Yeah . That's right .Marketing: if it's justUserInterface: Mm .Marketing: wood-coloured .Project Manager: But with colour was a lot more expensive ? Or ?Industrial Designer: Mm I dunno .Project Manager: You don't know ?Industrial Designer: I'll have to uhresearch .Project Manager: I think so because {disfmarker} Yeah .Marketing: Probably .Project Manager: It's a lot more difficult to to handle and to to get in the right shape .User Interface: Mm . Uh is it possible uh tomake um changeable uh case . So um uh you 'cause uh {disfmarker} Yeah with uh mobile phones uh uh so uh like the Nokia mobile phones , uh when you can change the case of it .Project Manager: Yeah .UserInterface: SoProject Manager: Change the cases . Yeah .User Interface: maybe it's possible uh possibility . So um um you have just to make one um standard um remote control , and um yeah you can sell uh few uh{disfmarker}Project Manager: You can sell the cases .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah . I think that's a very good option . Because um then you can advertise as well with the {disfmarker} Give yourgrandfather a new case for his remote control , or whatever . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Because that's a {disfmarker} it'ssomething extra , it's something other remotes don't have ,User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: which we can get a great advantage point .Marketing: Yeah that is true .Project Manager: So and then you can makethem with colour . Black and grey , other colours as well .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah . We would have to look carefully into the design though .Project Manager: Costs .Marketing: 'Cause we would have tomake one w uh control which would fit in with a wooden cover and a plastic cover . The more original one , or the more standard one .Project Manager: Yeah . Yeah . SoMarketing: So that would {disfmarker}ProjectManager: you suggest we should design two different telephones on which you can apply , yeah {vocalsound} remote controls , on which you can apply different case covers , for example .Marketing: Well I wouldn'tdesign a telephoneIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: but {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Well no I think w we should just , we should then just design one umProjectManager: Remote .Marketing: one remote , but it would have to be fancy with either the wood cover or the plastic one .Project Manager: Yeah . Okay .Marketing: So , but that shouldn't be too much of a problem.Project Manager: So everybody's okay with the changing covers ? I think that's a good uh good option .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yes .Project Manager: Changing case covers .Marketing: Um I heardour Industrial Designer talk about uh flat , single and double curved .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yes .Marketing: Could you explain that a little more ?Industrial Designer: Well the the general like mostolder remotes are flat , just straight .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: And uh our d manufacturing department can also deliver single curved or double curved ca curved cases .Marketing: And what wouldsingle curved and double curved mean ?Industrial Designer: Um it would just only affect the form , for as far as I know . So it's j really just up to the design department what we're gonna use . It doesn't really matterfor the price or the functionality .Marketing: Okay . So we can pretty much just do whatever we want .Industrial Designer: Pick one you like , yes .Project Manager: Mm . Okay .Marketing: 'Kay . That's good .ProjectManager: Uh but the form has to be um {disfmarker} It has to {disfmarker} It's has to be possible to stand up ? Or just only to lie down ?Marketing: No just to lie down .User Interface: {gap} okay .Project Manager:


PhD A: OK , we 're going .PhD D: Damn .Professor C: And uh Hans - uh , Hans - Guenter will be here , um , I think by next {disfmarker} next Tuesday or so .PhD B: Oh , OK .PhD D: Mm - hmm .Professor C: So he 's{disfmarker} he 's going to be here for about three weeks ,PhD B: Oh ! That 's nice .PhD A: Just for a visit ?Professor C: and , uh {disfmarker} Uh , we 'll see .PhD A: Huh .Professor C: We might {disfmarker} mightend up with some longer collaboration or something .PhD A: Cool .Professor C: So he 's gonna look in on everything we 're doingPhD D: Mm - hmm .Professor C: and give us his {disfmarker} his thoughts . And so it 'llbe another {disfmarker} another good person looking at things .PhD B: Oh . Hmm .Grad E: Th - that 's his spectral subtraction group ?Professor C: Yeah ,Grad E: Is that right ?Professor C: yeah .Grad E: Oh , OK . So Iguess I should probably talk to him a bit too ?Professor C: Oh , yeah . Yeah . Yeah . No , he 'll be around for three weeks . He 's , uh , um , very , very , easygoing , easy to talk to , and , uh , very interested ineverything .PhD A: Really nice guy .Professor C: Yeah , yeah .PhD B: Yeah , we met him in Amsterdam .Professor C: Yeah , yeah , he 's been here before .PhD B: Oh , OK .Professor C: I mean , he 's {disfmarker} he 's{disfmarker} he 's {disfmarker} he 's {disfmarker}PhD A: Wh - Back when I was a grad student he was here for a , uh , uh {disfmarker} a year or {comment} n six months .PhD B: I haven't noticed him .Professor C:N nine months .PhD A: Something like that .Professor C: Something like that .PhD A: Yeah .Professor C: Yeah . Yeah . He 's {disfmarker} he 's done a couple stays here .PhD B: Hmm .Professor C: Yeah .PhD A: So , um, {vocalsound} {comment} I guess we got lots to catch up on . And we haven't met for a couple of weeks . We didn't meet last week , Morgan . Um , I went around and talked to everybody , and it seemed like they{disfmarker} they had some new results but rather than them coming up and telling me I figured we should just wait a week and they can tell both {disfmarker} you know , all of us . So , um , why don't we{disfmarker} why don't we start with you , Dave , and then , um , we can go on .Grad E: Oh , OK .PhD A: So .Grad E: So , um , since we 're looking at putting this , um {disfmarker} mean log m magnitude spectralsubtraction , um , into the SmartKom system , I I did a test seeing if , um , it would work using past only {comment} and plus the present to calculate the mean . So , I did a test , um , {vocalsound} where I usedtwelve seconds from the past and the present frame to , um , calculate the mean . And {disfmarker}PhD A: Twelve seconds {disfmarker} Twelve {disfmarker} twelve seconds back from the current {pause} frame , isthat what you mean ?Grad E: Uh {disfmarker} Twelve seconds , um , counting back from the end of the current frame ,PhD A: OK , OK .Grad E: yeah . So it was , um , twen I think it was twenty - one frames and thatworked out to about twelve seconds .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Grad E: And compared to , um , do using a twelve second centered window , I think there was a drop in performance but it was just a slight drop .PhD A: Hmm!Professor C: Mm - hmm .Grad E: Is {disfmarker} is that right ?Professor C: Um , yeah , I mean , it was pretty {disfmarker} it was pretty tiny . Yeah .Grad E: Uh - huh . So that was encouraging . And , um , that{disfmarker} that {disfmarker} um , that 's encouraging for {disfmarker} for the idea of using it in an interactive system like And , um , another issue I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm thinking about is in the SmartKom system .So say twe twelve seconds in the earlier test seemed like a good length of time , but what happens if you have less than twelve seconds ? And , um {disfmarker} So I w bef before , um {disfmarker} Back in May , I didsome experiments using , say , two seconds , or four seconds , or six seconds . In those I trained the models using mean subtraction with the means calculated over two seconds , or four seconds , or six seconds . And ,um , here , I was curious , what if I trained the models using twelve seconds but I f I gave it a situation where the test set I was {disfmarker} subtracted using two seconds , or four seconds , or six seconds . And , um{disfmarker} So I did that for about three different conditions . And , um {disfmarker} I mean , I th I think it was , um , four se I think {disfmarker} I think it was , um , something like four seconds and , um , sixseconds , and eight seconds . Something like that . And it seems like it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it hurts compared to if you actually train the models {comment} using th that same length of time but it{disfmarker} it doesn't hurt that much . Um , u usually less than point five percent , although I think I did see one where it was a point eight percent or so rise in word error rate . But this is , um , w where , um , evenif I train on the , uh , model , and mean subtracted it with the same length of time as in the test , it {disfmarker} the word error rate is around , um , ten percent or nine percent . So it doesn't seem like that big a d adifference .Professor C: But it {disfmarker} but looking at it the other way , isn't it {disfmarker} what you 're saying that it didn't help you to have the longer time for training , if you were going to have a short time for{disfmarker}Grad E: That {disfmarker} that 's true . Um ,Professor C: I mean , why would you do it , if you knew that you were going to have short windows in testing .Grad E: WaPhD A: Yeah , it seems like for your{disfmarker} I mean , in normal situations you would never get twelve seconds of speech , right ? I 'm not {disfmarker} e uPhD B: You need twelve seconds in the past to estimate , right ? Or l or you 're looking at sixsec {disfmarker} seconds in future and six in {disfmarker}Professor C: Yeah .Grad E: Um , t twelve sProfessor C: No , total .Grad E: N n uh {disfmarker} For the test it 's just twelve seconds in the past .PhD B: No , it's all {disfmarker} Oh , OK .PhD A: Is this twelve seconds of {disfmarker} uh , regardless of speech or silence ? Or twelve seconds of speech ?Grad E: Of {disfmarker} of speech .PhD A: OK .PhD B: Mm - hmm.Professor C: The other thing , um , which maybe relates a little bit to something else we 've talked about in terms of windowing and so on is , that , um , I wonder if you trained with twelve seconds , and then when youwere two seconds in you used two seconds , and when you were four seconds in , you used four seconds , and when you were six {disfmarker} and you basically build up to the twelve seconds . So that if you have verylong utterances you have the best ,Grad E: Yeah .Professor C: but if you have shorter utterances you use what you can .Grad E: Right . And that 's actually what we 're planning to do inProfessor C: OK . Yeah .Grad E:But {disfmarker} s so I g So I guess the que the question I was trying to get at with those experiments is , " does it matter what models you use ? Does it matter how much time y you use to calculate the mean whenyou were , um , tra doing the training data ? "Professor C: Right . But I mean the other thing is that that 's {disfmarker} I mean , the other way of looking at this , going back to , uh , mean cepstral subtraction versusRASTA kind of things , is that you could look at mean cepstral subtraction , especially the way you 're doing it , uh , as being a kind of filter . And so , the other thing is just to design a filter . You know , basically you 're{disfmarker} you 're {disfmarker} you 're doing a high - pass filter or a band - pass filter of some sort and {disfmarker} and just design a filter . And then , you know , a filter will have a certain behavior and you loocan look at the start up behavior when you start up with nothing .Grad E: Mm - hmm .Professor C: And {disfmarker} and , you know , it will , uh , if you have an IIR filter for instance , it will , um , uh , not behave inthe steady - state way that you would like it to behave until you get a long enough period , but , um , uh , by just constraining yourself to have your filter be only a subtraction of the mean , you 're kind of , you know ,tying your hands behind your back because there 's {disfmarker} filters have all sorts of be temporal and spectral behaviors .Grad E: Mm - hmm .Professor C: And the only thing , you know , consistent that we knowabout is that you want to get rid of the very low frequency component .Grad E: Hmm .PhD B: But do you really want to calculate the mean ? And you neglect all the silence regions {comment} or you just use everythingthat 's twelve seconds , and {disfmarker}Grad E: Um , you {disfmarker} do you mean in my tests so far ?PhD B: Ye - yeah .Grad E: Most of the silence has been cut out .PhD B: OK .Grad E: Just {disfmarker} There 'sjust inter - word silences .PhD B: Mm - hmm . And they are , like , pretty short . ShorGrad E: Pretty short .PhD B: Yeah , OK .Grad E: Yeah .PhD B: Yeah . Mm - hmm . So you really need a lot of speech to estimate themean of it .Grad E: Well , if I only use six seconds , it still works pretty well .PhD B: Yeah . Yeah . Uh - huh .Grad E: I saw in my test before . I was trying twelve seconds cuz that was the best {pause} in my testbeforePhD B: OK .Grad E: and that increasing past twelve seconds didn't seem to help .PhD B: Hmm . Huh .Grad E: th um , yeah , I guess it 's something I need to play with more to decide how to set that up for theSmartKom system . Like , may maybe if I trained on six seconds it would work better when I only had two seconds or four seconds , and {disfmarker}Professor C: Yeah . Yeah . And , um {disfmarker}Grad E: OK.Professor C: Yeah , and again , if you take this filtering perspective and if you essentially have it build up over time . I mean , if you computed means over two and then over four , and over six , essentially what you 'regetting at is a kind of , uh , ramp up of a filter anyway . And so you may {disfmarker} may just want to think of it as a filter . But , uh , if you do that , then , um , in practice somebody using the SmartKom system ,one would think {comment} {disfmarker} if they 're using it for a while , it means that their first utterance , instead of , you know , getting , uh , a forty percent error rate reduction , they 'll get a {disfmarker} uh ,over what , uh , you 'd get without this , uh , um , policy , uh , you get thirty percent . And then the second utterance that you give , they get the full {disfmarker} you know , uh , full benefit of it if it 's this ongoingthing .PhD A: Oh , so you {disfmarker} you cache the utterances ? That 's how you get your , uh {disfmarker}Professor C: Well , I 'm saying in practice , yeah ,Grad E: MPhD A: Ah . OK .Professor C: that 's{disfmarker} If somebody 's using a system to ask for directions or something ,PhD A: OK .Professor C: you know , they 'll say something first . And {disfmarker} and to begin with if it doesn't get them quite right , mam maybe they 'll come back and say , " excuse me ? "PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor C: uh , or some {disfmarker} I mean it should have some policy like that anyway .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor C: And {disfmarker}and , uh , uh , in any event they might ask a second question . And it 's not like what he 's doing doesn't , uh , improve things . It does improve things , just not as much as he would like . And so , uh , there 's a higherprobability of it making an error , uh , in the first utterance .PhD A: What would be really cool is if you could have {disfmarker} uh , this probably {disfmarker} users would never like this {disfmarker} but if you had{disfmarker} could have a system where , {vocalsound} before they began to use it they had to introduce themselves , verbally .Professor C: Mm - hmm .PhD A: You know . " Hi , my name is so - and - so ,Professor C:Yeah .PhD A: I 'm from blah - blah - blah . " And you could use that initial speech to do all these adaptations and {disfmarker}Professor C: Right .Grad E: Mm - hmm .Professor C: Oh , the other thing I guess which{disfmarker} which , uh , I don't know much about {disfmarker} as much as I should about the rest of the system but {disfmarker} but , um , couldn't you , uh , if you {disfmarker} if you sort of did a first pass I don'tknow what kind of , uh , uh , capability we have at the moment for {disfmarker} for doing second passes on {disfmarker} on , uh , uh , some kind of little {disfmarker} small lattice , or a graph , or confusion network ,or something . But if you did first pass with , um , the {disfmarker} with {disfmarker} either without the mean sub subtraction or with a {disfmarker} a very short time one , and then , um , once you , uh , actually hadthe whole utterance in , if you did , um , the , uh , uh , longer time version then , based on everything that you had , um , and then at that point only used it to distinguish between , you know , top N , um , possibleutterances or something , you {disfmarker} you might {disfmarker} it might not take very much time . I mean , I know in the large vocabulary stu uh , uh , systems , people were evaluating on in the past , somepeople really pushed everything in to make it in one pass but other people didn't and had multiple passes . And , um , the argument , um , against multiple passes was u u has often been " but we want to this to be ryou know {disfmarker} have a nice interactive response " . And the counterargument to that which , say , uh , BBN I think had , {comment} was " yeah , but our second responses are {disfmarker} second , uh , passesand third passes are really , really fast " .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor C: So , um , if {disfmarker} if your second pass takes a millisecond who cares ? Um .Grad E: S so , um , the {disfmarker} the idea of the secondpass would be waiting till you have more recorded speech ? Or {disfmarker} ?Professor C: Yeah , so if it turned out to be a problem , that you didn't have enough speech because you need a longer {disfmarker} longerwindow to do this processing , then , uh , one tactic is {disfmarker} you know , looking at the larger system and not just at the front - end stuff {comment} {disfmarker} is to take in , um , the speech with somesimpler mechanism or shorter time mechanism ,Grad E: Mm - hmm .Professor C: um , do the best you can , and come up with some al possible alternates of what might have been said . And , uh , either in the form ofan N - best list or in the form of a lattice , or {disfmarker} or confusion network , or whatever .Grad E: Mm - hmm .Professor C: And then the decoding of that is much , much faster or can be much , much faster if itisn't a big bushy network . And you can decode that now with speech that you 've actually processed using this longer time , uh , subtraction .Grad E: Mmm .Professor C: So I mean , it 's {disfmarker} it 's common thatpeople do this sort of thing where they do more things that are more complex or require looking over more time , whatever , in some kind of second pass .Grad E: Mm - hmm . OK .Professor C: um , and again , if thesecond pass is really , really fast {disfmarker} Uh , another one I 've heard of is {disfmarker} is in {disfmarker} in connected digit stuff , um , going back and l and through backtrace and finding regions that areconsidered to be a d a digit , but , uh , which have very low energy .Grad E: Mm - hmm . OK .Professor C: So , uh {disfmarker} I mean , there 's lots of things you can do in second passes , at all sorts of levels . Anyway, I 'm throwing too many things out . But .PhD A: So is that , uh {disfmarker} that it ?Grad E: I guess that 's it .PhD A: OK , uh , do you wanna go , Sunil ?PhD B: Yep . Um , so , the last two weeks was , like{disfmarker} So I 've been working on that Wiener filtering . And , uh , found that , uh , s single {disfmarker} like , I just do a s normal Wiener filtering , like the standard method of Wiener filtering . And that doesn'tactually give me any improvement over like {disfmarker} I mean , uh , b it actually improves over the baseline but it 's not like {disfmarker} it doesn't meet something like fifty percent or something . So , I 've beenplaying with the vPhD A: Improves over the base line MFCC system ? Yeah .PhD B: Yeah . Yeah . Yeah . So , um {disfmarker} So that 's {disfmarker} The improvement is somewhere around , like , thirty percent overthe baseline .Professor C: Is that using {disfmarker} in combination with something else ?PhD B: No , just {disfmarker} just one stage Wiener filterProfessor C: With {disfmarker} with a {disfmarker}PhD B: which is astandard Wiener filter .Professor C: No , no , but I mean in combination with our on - line normalization or with the LDA ?PhD B: Yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah . So I just plug in the Wiener filtering .Professor C: Oh , OK.PhD B: I mean , in the s in our system , where {disfmarker}PhD A: Oh , OK .PhD B: So , I di i diProfessor C: So , does it g does that mean it gets worse ? Or {disfmarker} ?PhD B: No . It actually improves over thebaseline of not having a Wiener filter in the whole system . Like I have an LDA f LDA plus on - line normalization , and then I plug in the Wiener filter in that ,Professor C: Yeah ?PhD B: so it improves over not having theWiener filter . So it improves but it {disfmarker} it doesn't take it like be beyond like thirty percent over the baseline . So {disfmarker}Professor C: But that 's what I 'm confused about , cuz I think {disfmarker} Ithought that our system was more like forty percent without the Wiener filtering .PhD B: No , it 's like , uh ,PhD D: Mmm .PhD A: Is this with the v new VAD ?PhD B: well , these are not {disfmarker} No , it 's the oldVAD . So my baseline was , {vocalsound} uh , {vocalsound} nine {disfmarker} This is like {disfmarker} w the baseline is ninety - five point six eight , and eighty - nine , and {disfmarker}Professor C: So I mean , if youcan do all these in word errors it 's a lot {disfmarker} a lot easier actually .PhD B: What was that ? Sorry ?Professor C: If you do all these in word error rates it 's a lot easier , right ?PhD B: Oh , OK , OK , OK . Errors ,right , I don't have .Professor C: OK , cuz then you can figure out the percentages .PhD B: It 's all accuracies .Professor C: Yeah .PhD D: The baseline is something similar to a w I mean , the t the {disfmarker} thebaseline that you are talking about is the MFCC baseline , right ?PhD B: The t yeah , there are two baselines .PhD D: Or {disfmarker} ?PhD B: OK . So the baseline {disfmarker} One baseline is MFCC baseline that{disfmarker} When I said thirty percent improvement it 's like MFCC baseline .PhD D: Mm - hmm .Professor C: So {disfmarker} so {disfmarker} so what 's it start on ? The MFCC baseline is {disfmarker} is what ? Is atwhat level ?PhD B: It 's the {disfmarker} it 's just the mel frequency and that 's it .Professor C: No , what 's {disfmarker} what 's the number ?PhD B: Uh , so I I don't have that number here . OK , OK , OK , I have ithere . Uh , it 's the VAD plus the baseline actually . I 'm talking about the {disfmarker} the MFCC plus I do a frame dropping on it . So that 's like {disfmarker} the word error rate is like four point three . Like{disfmarker} Ten point seven .Professor C: Four point three . What 's ten point seven ?PhD B: It 's a medium misma OK , sorry . There 's a well ma well matched , medium mismatched , and a high matched .ProfessorC: Ah .PhD B: So I don't have the {disfmarker} like the {disfmarker}Professor C: Yeah .PhD B: So {disfmarker}Professor C: OK , four point three , ten point seven ,PhD B: And forty forty .Professor C: and{disfmarker}PhD B: Forty percent is the high mismatch .Professor C: OK .PhD B: And that becomes like four point three {disfmarker}Professor C: Not changed .PhD B: Yeah , it 's like ten point one . Still the same . Andthe high mismatch is like eighteen point five .Professor C: Eighteen point five .PhD B: Five .Professor C: And what were you just describing ?PhD B: Oh , the one is {disfmarker} this one is just the baseline plus the , uh, Wiener filter plugged into it .Professor C: But where 's the , uh , on - line normalization and so on ?PhD B: Oh , OK . So {disfmarker} Sorry . So , with the {disfmarker} with the on - line normalization , theperformance was , um , ten {disfmarker} OK , so it 's like four point three . Uh , and again , that 's the ba the ten point , uh , four and twenty point one . That was with on - line normalization and LDA . So the h wellmatched has like literally not changed by adding on - line or LDA on it . But the {disfmarker} I mean , even the medium mismatch is pretty much the same . And the high mismatch was improved by twenty percentabsolute .Professor C: OK , and what kind of number {disfmarker} an and what are we talking about here ?PhD B: It 's the It - it 's Italian .Professor C: Is this TI - digitsPhD B: I 'm talking about Italian ,Professor C: or{disfmarker} Italian ?PhD B: yeah .Professor C: And what did {disfmarker} So , what was the , um , uh , corresponding number , say , for , um , uh , the Alcatel system for instance ?PhD B: Mmm . Professor C: Do youknow ?PhD D: Yeah , so it looks to be , um {disfmarker}PhD B: You have it ?PhD D: Yep , it 's three point four , uh , eight point , uh , seven , and , uh , thirteen point seven .PhD B: Yep .Professor C: OK .PhD B: So


Project Manager: Um we are {disfmarker} So the meeting will have about the same format as the last time . So {gap} switching over I've just left uh my first two screens {gap} .User Interface: Mm-hmm .ProjectManager: Um {vocalsound} mailed you the minutes of the last meeting uh just to save time .User Interface: Okay . Cool .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um and is there any questions you have that arised from lastmeeting that are particularly bothering you ? NUser Interface: Mm um . No , I don't think so .Project Manager: No ? Okay , cool .Industrial Designer: No .Project Manager: Then we shall start with a presentation fromRaj .Marketing: Yeah . {vocalsound} Hi , me Raj , again . Uh in this meeting I I'm going to discuss about the trend watching , uh how these trends is going to affect our market potential and how important is this . Sowe have to look on this . First of all methodology . The met methodology to find out the trend was incl uh was done in a way {disfmarker} {vocalsound} We have done a rec not only a recent remote control marketsurvey , but we also considered the latest fre fashion trends of the market , because we think that this is also a factor which will affect our sales and profit . So what are our findings ? In our {vocalsound} uh in ourfindings we have seen that {disfmarker} when we did our remote control market survey we found that uh people l uh people do have preference for tho fancy mobi uh f remote controls which look and feel very good ,rather than having a functional look and feel uh good . So this sh this clearly indicates their preference for the design their outlook of the remote controls . So we should take into uh we should consider this factor as themost important factor , because this factor is twice as important , the second factor which is further ti twice the as important as the sec as uh the third factor . So this factor becomes the most important factor in oursurv uh uh in our mark uh means in take {disfmarker} in designing our rem uh remote controls .User Interface: The last one is the most important one , is it ?Marketing: No the first one is theUser Interface: Oh , sorry.Marketing: uh the outlook of the mobile , the it should have a fancy outlook ,Project Manager: {gap}User Interface: Okay .Marketing: the fancy design uh rather than just having a functional look and feel good , itshould have a fancy look and foo feel good .User Interface: Okay .Marketing: The second most important aspect is that remote control should be a technologically uh innovative . We must have some technologicaladvancement in the remote control tha rather than just putting it as it is as the other remo uh remote controls are . So it uh should be technologically innovative like glow-in-the-dark or speech recognition , somethinglike that .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: So that indicates our technological advancement . And the third most important aspect in the ta to take into consideration is that it should be easy to use ,UserInterface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: like it shouldn't be too much co complicated ,User Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: there shouldn't be too many buttons on this mobi uh remote control , it shouldn't be too complicateduh like this way . And it should be uh {disfmarker} and customers should be provided with manuals that is easy to understand in their local language , something . So that they could know how to use these remotecontrols . When we did uh f fashions uh , recent fashion uh {disfmarker} our recent fashion update shows that {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} Sorry .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Ah yeah ?{vocalsound}User Interface: I was just reading fruit and vegetables .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Hard to know how we are going to incorporate that . {vocalsound}Marketing: Y yeah uh yeah , wehave to , because uh d you can see how people have related their clothes , shoes , {gap} and everything with fruits and vegetables ,Project Manager: {gap}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: because the g worldis now changing it's trend towards organic , becoming more and more organic ,User Interface: Okay . Yeah .Industrial Designer: We should make a big sponge lemon ,Marketing: becoming {disfmarker}{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and then it'd be it would be yellow .Marketing: Yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: It's {disfmarker}Marketing: So{disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: Th that's very good .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah . So something like that we we should do .User Interface: Glow-in-the-dark . Okay .Marketing: And people uhthe f feel of the material is expected to be spongy rather than just having a plastic look , hard look .Industrial Designer: Mm . {vocalsound}User Interface: Well , that's good .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah . Yeah .UserInterface: That's what we kind of predicted anyway .Marketing: So so that they could play with it while handi uh while handling it . So that should also be taken into consideration .User Interface: Okay . Okay.Marketing: So these are my views .User Interface: Okay .Marketing: So {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay , the spongy , not real spongy , you can {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing: No it ca {vocalsound} y a{gap} {disfmarker}User Interface: Do you think like rubber would be good or does it really want to be like gel kind of stuff ?Marketing: The rubber which is good for health and which is quite disposable that we can takeinto coUser Interface: Okay . Quite disposable .Marketing: Yeah . 'Cause we It shouldn't be have any harm to the environment also ,User Interface: Okay .Marketing: because our company is very well {gap} for takingall these concerns into consideration ,Project Manager: Alright , okay .User Interface: Oh okay .Marketing: so we don't want to have any harm to the society ,User Interface: Uh-huh . Okay .Marketing: so{disfmarker}Project Manager: Fashion .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Mm 'kay .User Interface: Cool .Marketing: So that's all . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Fruit and veg , well there yougo .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Just what I think of when I think of a remote control . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: Mm .Industrial Designer: {gap}User Interface: A remote control ?Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound} {gap}User Interface: And were there any factors that weren't important in the survey , that they said we don't want ?Marketing: S uh we didn't find out any such point .User Interface:Or was it just {disfmarker} Okay . {vocalsound}Marketing: Uh yes , there could be , but we couldn't find out any , so {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm-mm-mm-mm .User Interface: Cool .Project Manager:Mm-mm-mm-mm-mm .User Interface: F_ , what is it ? Um .Project Manager: Function F_ eight .User Interface: {gap} yeah .Project Manager: Hmm .User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: {gap}Marketing: Yeah .{gap}Project Manager: {gap}Marketing: Oh no , {vocalsound} {gap} .User Interface: No signal . Is that {gap} ?Industrial Designer: No , it's got it's got it .Marketing: Yeah , uh yeah , uh yeah .Industrial Designer:{gap}Marketing: {gap} Yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Excuse me .User Interface: Okay , and then F_ five , right ?Project Manager: Uh , yeah {gap} .User Interface: Okay . Um okay , so theinterface concept um . Yeah . The interface specification , what people {disfmarker} um how they interact with it basically , I think . Um so the method , we looked at existing designs , what are the {disfmarker} what'sgood about them , what's bad about them , um I looked at their flaws , so we're going to look at their flaws , everything . Um and what {vocalsound} the survey told us and what we think would be good , so a bit ofimagination .Project Manager: Mm 'kay .User Interface: {vocalsound} Uh the findings , I've got some pictures to show you as well .Project Manager: {vocalsound} {gap} either . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: Hmm .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound} Okay , so most remote controls use graphical interface , where you um have got s buttons and you point it rather than having theoutput as a a stream of text or something .Project Manager: Uh okay .User Interface: Um and we also found that there's inconsistent layout , which makes it confusing . So I think for our remote control {disfmarker}There is some inconsistency already in {disfmarker} ec existing in {disfmarker} between remote controls , but I think standard kind of um shape and uh play and those kind of but buttons like the the top right for onand off or something ,Project Manager: Right , okay . Yeah .User Interface: I think , people find that important,'cause then it's easy to use .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: And we've got some pictures ofsome uh new remote controls to show you .Project Manager: Excellent .User Interface: Do I press Escape F_ five ? Or just {disfmarker}Project Manager: Uh no just escape should uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Escape, okay . Um , oh I still haven't got my glasses on . Yeah , okay . So these are the {disfmarker} some of the pictures of existing ones .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Wow .User Interface: I'll justwalk you through them . This one is a voice recognition .Project Manager: 'Kay .User Interface: And that's the kind of idea we're going for .Project Manager: Looks pretty complicated .User Interface: There's um anL_C_D_ thing , which we thought could {disfmarker} I thought could get a bit confusing and a bit expensive as well for us .Project Manager: Right , okay .User Interface: This one is {disfmarker} got a kind of scroll likea mouse ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm , like the middle button .User Interface: which {disfmarker} Yeah .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Um and {disfmarker} But I'm not exactly sure how you'd use that,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Ah it's kinda like scrolling {disfmarker}User Interface: like would the computer come {disfmarker}Project Manager: uh right , well , if I s if I'm thinking of the rightone , I've got the same thing in front of my monitor , you scroll it and the when you reach the sort of um {vocalsound} menu item that you require , you press the middle of the scroll .User Interface: Uh-huh , that's likethe L_C_D_ one ,Project Manager: Right , okay .User Interface: is it ? But the one below that has got like {vocalsound} a little scroll function on the side . But I presume that the functions must come up on the T_V_screen .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah , presumably .User Interface: I think that's what that is . So these are just a few ideas . Again that's just quite boring shape , grey , looks quite space-agey, but too many buttons , I think on that one .Industrial Designer: Uh it looks threatening .Project Manager: Yeah , looks like uh looks like something out of a jet . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah , it does look kind ofdangerous .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} It looks like yeah {gap} .Marketing: Hmm .User Interface: Um this one I thought was really cool . It's w it's got the programmability function that we talked about.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: You can put it in there , it's for your kids , and it's quite an organic shape and the little circle around there is pretty cool .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Andthat's really easy to use , bright , so I like this one lot for our design . I think something like that would be good .Industrial Designer: Wow .Project Manager: Yeah , I m I mean the one thing I think about about theseones is um these kl uh secured areas um {vocalsound} , I've seen a lot of them with the the cover missing .User Interface: Of course yellow . {vocalsound}Project Manager: So like have it hinge rather than sort of clipon or whatever .User Interface: Right , yeah . Yeah , that's true . Yeah . Um so maybe that could be built into one of the things and it comes up on the T_V_ or something . And this one , the over-sized one , I don'tknow about you , but I think it's a bit too gimmicky .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: I don't think that will sell very well .Project Manager: I mean is that not sortof to assist the blind or something , is it ? {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} I guess so . I don't know .Industrial Designer: Then d blind don't watch T_V_ . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Strange .{vocalsound}User Interface: I think that's a bit {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Yeah exactly .Project Manager: No they do , they do .Industrial Designer: They do ? {vocalsound}Project Manager: They listen to it . Yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah . And um this one {vocalsound} is just pointing out . I like {vocalsound} some of these things um the the raised symbols and everything , but {gap} pointing out um that this onethe volume it is kind of pressing down , but it would actually go up , because of the shape .Project Manager: Right , okay .User Interface: So that could {disfmarker} that's a bit confusing . Um but the buttons on this Ithink are {disfmarker} it's just showing you how you can have different different um buttons . They don't have to be all the same . So that's quite cool . Um .Project Manager: 'Kay but people tend to recognise certainshapes to do certain things anyway , don't they ?User Interface: Yeah , exactly . Um F_ five . Yes . So there are some of the findings . So we need to combine those ones umIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}UserInterface: and I've just got {vocalsound} an e-mail from our technical department saying that they have broken through with some new speech recognition software that you can program in .Project Manager: Brilliant .That's handy . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: Um yeah it is , just in time , very handy . Um so {vocalsound} I think maybe incorporating that in our design would be good .Project Manager: Okay .UserInterface: It's {disfmarker} you program it like you say , record , um and then , play , and then , record , play machine , and stuff like that , so that's {disfmarker} And it's much {disfmarker} Yeah . So that's quite cool. Uh personal preferences just some imagination , the raised symbols I thought were good , the L_C_D_ , it does look smart , but I think maybe for our budget , do you think that would be a bit too expensive to havethe {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: The L_C_D_User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: and the other stuff uh , I think .User Interface: And the speech recognition , 'cause I think we're definitely goingfor the speech recognition ,Marketing: But in our market survey we have seen that people are willing to pay more ,User Interface: are we ?Marketing: but they want the quality , they want f fancy look , they want somenew design , something new .User Interface: Uh-huh .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Uh yeah .User Interface: Uh-huh . But our budget , we've {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's still it's still got to get within ourtwelve fifty , you know .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: So even if we increase our cost little bit , within uh some limits , and we give something new technological advancement as well as new designwith fancy outlook , I think we will meet the requirements and we will be able to have a good sales in the market .User Interface: Uh-huh . Okay .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: I'm not sure if the {disfmarker}if {vocalsound} for twenty five Euros uh per uh twelve Euros fifty m manufacturing cost , {gap} .Industrial Designer: Ben banaProject Manager: Yeah . I can't see tha Although , th I mean to be to be sure they have got{disfmarker} I mean they are going crazy with the L_C_D_ technology now ,Industrial Designer: {gap}User Interface: The L_C_D_ .Project Manager: so that you've got your L_C_D_ T_V_s and everything so maybethe small {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: But I mean like I I {disfmarker} the black and white , I guess , it just doesn't look funky enough .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Um but , I mean , like even mobile phones or whatever have {disfmarker} now have colour L_C_D_ screens ,User Interface: No .Industrial Designer: Hmm .Project Manager: w I ju ImeanUser Interface: Yeah . SProject Manager: I wouldn't know about the costs of them .User Interface: Uh-huh .Industrial Designer: But uh price price not withstanding um , is it too complicated , is it gonna be toomuch just overload ?Marketing: And the {disfmarker}Project Manager: Twelve fifty .Marketing: Uh i it will be easy because there will be , on L_C_D_ s screen , there will be different frent icons , they can just click okokay , whatever they waProject Manager: {vocalsound} Possibly .User Interface: Yeah , that's the thing , because {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: But but the thing is when you use a remote control , you never look atit , right ? You're looking at the T_V_Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: and and it's uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: That's true , yeah .Industrial Designer: It justseems kind of like a a needless thUser Interface: And one of the survey findings was that they want it easy to use , so I think I'm not sure about the L_C_D_ .Project Manager: Right .User Interface: It's a it's great , it'sa good idea , but for our budget and for the thing we're trying to go for eas easy to use , it's not the thing we should go for , I think . Child-friendly , I thought this was good , as you pointed out the um {vocalsound}the bit , it often goes missing especially with children , but it's a good shape and the organic is kind of {disfmarker} we could make a vegetabley kind of round shape , I think .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah.Industrial Designer: So which vegetable ? {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well I mean we could make a {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah , I know , carrot {vocalsound} .Project Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: Okay . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well , si since we're going for the uh the k the sort of company colours , I think your lemon wasn't that far s {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: The the lemon . Well whatare the options ?User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: And if it doesn't work you know , we've just made a lemon . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: But we don't want it to be {disfmarker} Yeah . Um thechild-friendly , yeah . Easy to use , it seems quite easy to use . I like the d the different shapes of the buttons and stuff .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . I like I like the colourful buttons as well .User Interface: I thinkthat's a good idea to go for . Yeah . And the mouse one , I thought it was a good idea , because people use mo mice mouses now with the scrolling thing . Um .Project Manager: Yeah . I mean we are marketing to sortof twenty five to thirty five ,User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: so most people will have come in contact with that kind of use .User Interface: S yeah . So they'd be able to use that um , as I said I think i I'dpresume it would come up on the screen .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Um so there you go .Project Manager: And that means tha that means you get to bump that bit to the T_V_ maker , so{disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Oh .User Interface: So that's um the user interfaceProject Manager: 'Kay .User Interface: design .Project Manager: {vocalsound} {gap}Industrial Designer: Okay.User Interface: So okay , I'll take this out now then .Industrial Designer: Um soProject Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: There you go .Industrial Designer: I guess there are a lot of options that we're gonna haveto choose from among ,Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah , looks like it .Industrial Designer: and I'll I'll give you the uh , {vocalsound} I guess , technical considerations for those .User Interface: Mm .ProjectManager: {vocalsound} Uh {vocalsound}User Interface: {gap}Industrial Designer: And I'm gonna use the whiteboard , just 'cause we haven't used it {vocalsound} .Project Manager: Yeah , I was just thinking the selfsame thing . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Right . So , the way I'm gonna do this {vocalsound} is uh we're gonna take a look at some old remote controls , see how they work , uhreuse the the vital kind of um essential pieces of it ,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and then we'll throw in our new innovations um {vocalsound} and keep it all within budget .Project Manager:{vocalsound} Magic man .Industrial Designer: So uh yeah , looking inside a a very simple remote control . Um this is what they sent me . 'Kay . Here's uh the competition , I suppose .Project Manager:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Um you open it up , there's a circuit board inside ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: um {vocalsound} and there's a a chip , a processor , the T_A_ one one eight three