Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: {gap} .Project Manager: Right . Okay . Alright . Is everyone here ? {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yep . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yep .ProjectManager: Okay . This is our conceptual design meeting . And {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I'll just take a few minutes and uh go through the previous minutes . Um then each of you will have your presentation , um andthen we will need to make a decision on the concept for the remote control . And then we'll have uh forty minutes for finishing up . Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I'll go through the mee through the minutes first . Um ,we just refreshed our our uh goal of making the finest remote control available .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um we decided that , or we know that we need to use company colours, company logo . Um {vocalsound} and our Marketing Expert uh gave us some i uh information from interviews with a hundred different remote users . Um with some statistics that backed basically what we werethinking before . People thought their remotes were ugly , um um that remotes zap a lot . Um they only use uh a finite amount of buttons .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um and that they oftenlose the {disfmarker} it's easy to lose a remote . Um which were all things we were thinking we would {disfmarker} wanna make it simple . Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} And uh some sort of locator . Either a buttonor tracking device . Um {disfmarker} And that it should look different than what's out there . Um {disfmarker} Kind of mixed mixed response on the speech recognition . The younger people said they wanted it , olderpeople did not . Um uh I think we decided that um the expense was not necessarily worth it , and that it was probably a gimmick , that um would increasingly wear on the consumers' nerves . Um {vocalsound}{disfmarker} Then the User Interface Designer um explored some of the technical functions of the remote . Um the simple versus the um the complex . The simple one being better for a user , the complex better for anengineer . Um {disfmarker} Um and some personal preferences that were found in that would be that it should be a user-oriented remote , something simple . Um and that we didn't wanna go with a universal remote ,because uh increasing cost and increasing complexity . Um we would just have a T_V_ remote . Um and that we should also focus on the appearance of the remote . Have it s be something that looks different . Andfinally our um Industrial Designer uh gave us a rundown of how the remote will work . Um from energy source , um uh what we would use . Batteries because we don't wanna have a a cable . Um {disfmarker}{vocalsound} How that would power the remote and the lamp . If we were to to have one . Uh um the user interface then would connect to a chip , {vocalsound} which would work with the infrared controls uh to sendthe signal to the T_V_ . Um {disfmarker} I believe then we came up with a couple of ideas for what we think the design of the remote will be . Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Um something that will fit into uh easilyinto someone's hand . {vocalsound} And with a , just a few buttons . Just the basics . And with a scrolling um function also . Okay and I will leave that , leave it at that . So {disfmarker} Marketing ?Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: We're watching trends .Marketing: Yep . Can I have your cable please ?Project Manager: I suppose that you can have this .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Thanks . Okay so I was lookingat trend-watching . Um unfortunately I wasn't given too much information . I was given a brief executive summary , and then an update on some recent fashion trends that we might like to look at . And then I'll just tellyou some personal preferences that I got from that . Um okay the most important finding was that the fancy look-and-feel seems to be twice as important to the users as the current functional look-and-feel design ,which I think we've kind of already discussed before . Um the second most important finding was that the remote should be technologically innovative . And again these are all things we've kind of already come up withon our own , but this just backs it up . And thirdly the remote would be easy to use . As far as fashion update , we've learned that fruits and vegetables will be the most important theme for cloths , shoes and furniture.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: So that might be a bit of a challenge to incorporate this into our remote , but we can try . Um and also , as opposed to last year , this year the material is expected to bespongy in feel . {vocalsound} Okay so from that um , as we've already said , we need to focus on a fancy look-and-feel . Um I think we've already discovered that it's kind of hard to go away from the traditionalrectangular design . But I think that , even if it's very subtle , we need to kind of trick our consumers , so they at least get the idea that they're getting something that's new and modern and sleek and {disfmarker}Whether it's through the shape or the colours or all of that . Um for technologically innovative , we've talked about the tracking device . We brought up the idea of having two pieces , which we could discuss further .And Manuel had suggested um the energy source and the user interface , discussing some of those , um that we could change a little bit . We need to keep it simple , have limited buttons , which I think the two pieceidea might be really beneficial for . {vocalsound} Um {vocalsound} we need to incorporate this fashion trend of fruits and vegetables . I don't know , I mean I guess the two options are if we had our remote in theshape of a fruit or vegetable .Project Manager: {vocalsound} A banana shape ?User Interface: Oh it was sort of banana shaped . {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah . Yeah . Right . Or with exterior designs . But myquestion is , I mean the stereotypically speaking , you kind of picture males with their remote controls , and I'm not sure how they'd feel about having fruity logos on the outside .Project Manager:{vocalsound}Marketing: So maybe we could have something that's somewhat removable , or I don't know , different options for female , male target groups . And then the spongy feel . I guess we could look at mobilephones and other technology that's out there . C and look at different types of material that {vocalsound} might please our users who want spongy-feeling remote controls . So that's that .Project Manager: So possiblylike a uh ,Industrial Designer: Alright .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: sorry , just to butt in for a second . Possibly uh like a cover like they have for mobile phones ?Marketing: That's what I was thinking yeah.User Interface: Those like , yeah , sort of spongy ones .Project Manager: You have one with a flag , and one with a banana and one that's a spongyUser Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Yeah . So when you buy your remote you can buyProject Manager: feel to it . {vocalsound} You can {disfmarker}Marketing: various coverings .Project Manager: Mm various covers .User Interface: What's it called ?Cust you {disfmarker} {vocalsound} personalised , yeah .Marketing: Personalise your remote . {vocalsound}Project Manager: We could leave that to the cover department . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah .{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} We all know they've got nothing to do all day .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Okay . Why can't I see the {disfmarker} crazy . Um yeah I {disfmarker} talking about the interface concept and how thecustomer relates to , will use the , consumer will use the actual device . Um so I've looked at some of the stuff I was sent , um , try and get some inspiration . But keep in mind that our own ideas that we had . Um I wassent some information from the company saying that they , the technology department have devised a new speech recognition technology , where you can program questions into such devices . They gave an exampleof a coffee machine where you program a question , you program the answer , and the machine responds accordingly . Um okay . There's different ways of a user can use products l like a remote . Um there's agraphical use , where you you look at pictures and well on a screen . A command line where you obviously type things in , and you get a response . Um and then it ju that's just to point out the sort of inconsistent u sortof use of interface in remotes . You can't really see that picture well , but there's various different remotes , once again with lots of different buttons on , making it more complicated .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}User Interface: So , then I had a look at new products that are on the market . Not necessarily remote controls but ones that you'll recognise . Um this is the voice , there is a voice recognition remotecontrol , which can control mus multiple devices . I have a {disfmarker} there is a picture {gap} . You surf your favourite channels uh with your voice . Store up to eighty speech samples , controls four devices , T_V_ ,cable , satellite , V_C_R_ , D_V_D_ and audio . And you can record your own v verbal labels , that are connected to remote control functions . So the technology is there . Um the one on the left is very similar to whatwe drew up on the board in the previous meeting , where there {disfmarker} has scroll down functions on the side . You can sort of just make those out . And then on the right is obviously an iPod , which is you knowpossibly one of the simplest things to use out there , and really is , and all that is is just a a nice big scroll menu that y you sort of go through . That is a {vocalsound} possibility . And nothing's simpler really . Um thenthere's things like this , which is a a a kid's remote , where the the parents have the facility to control and program what children can watch before . So the remote control it o only allows them to access the channelsthat their parents want them to watch . And um it means that th children have a novelty of having their own remote control . So I don't know {gap} if there's a possibility of having one remote contr you know like wejust had two components , maybe it can have more components you know , different remotes . Um the point made at the end there here is that you have to be sort of be {disfmarker} need to be clear on your umdevices , as to what , you know , things you use . Sometimes an arrow pointing down , which may suggest volume down , could become confused just as a V_ for volume . Just little things like that , which would need tobe made clear in the design . Um I think , d carrying on from what I've already said , a user friendly remote with minimum buttons . Maybe we've so suggested this two-part thing , where if it was to have a speechrecognition thing , you could maybe control that on the {disfmarker} do it {disfmarker} or program all that on the control bit . And then just have the simple sort of hand-held thing that we sort of devised earlier , asthe actual remote . Um I don't {disfmarker} it could be a graphical display , the actual remote contr the actual control port maybe could have like an iPod where you just sort of control through the menus . Stuff like{gap} gets more and more compli complicated . And then the the hand-held bit should be ergonomically designed . And that is it . Why am I {disfmarker} Oh yeah . Just {gap} . {gap} Where are we ? Uh . Just to sortof show you . M {gap} they've even got things like that .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Huge things . Which is just {gap} for your gr ninety year old grandma yeah ?Project Manager:{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: That's industrial design for cranes , stuff like that .User Interface: Yeah . Yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Notice the giant dog bone shape ?Marketing:{vocalsound} Dunno .Industrial Designer: Makes sense , makes sense .User Interface: And that {disfmarker} yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Also good for animals .User Interface: Yeah . See. {gap} things {gap} . {gap} . Why's my screen crazy ?Industrial Designer: Uh {disfmarker} Well let's see . I'm going to bore you with a couple of descriptions of the interior .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Just to to make it more obvious what we have to fit in there , and that we do have to fit the stuff in there . I've more information on possible materials um as well . What we can andcannot do . Um but let's just wait for this to load up and I'll show you what we're talking about here . Okay . The details of the components' design , as you can see there , what we have is the board , main board of theremote control . {vocalsound} The underside , that's pretty cheap piece of of technology really {gap} top left side you can see the chip , which is the , what we were talking about , this was is the device to recognise thesignals the input , and it passes it on to a row of um further transistors and stuff like that on the right side that actually amplify the signal , which later on is being , is being transferred to a infrared lamp which then umof course shines infrared light onto the television which then will recognise what signal um it's getting and will do what you tell it . Um {disfmarker} So much for the the workings of the of the uh remote control itself .{vocalsound} Its job is to wait for you to press a key , then to translate that key press into infrared light signals , um that are received by the television . When you press a key um you complete a specific connection .The chip senses the connection and knows what button you pressed . It produces a morse code line signal specific to that button . Right . Pretty clear . Transistor amplifies the signal and then sends the m sends thesignal to the L_E_D_ which translates the signal into infrared light . The sensor in the T_V_ can see the infrared light , and seeing the signal reacts appropriately . This is the circuit board from the other side . Um thelower part of it , I don't know if you can see that properly , with the green greenish board is is what we what we saw in the first the first slide just flipped over . Um you can see the circuit board itself . That's thecheapest uh way to make electronic connections basically on the market . Um what you do is you have , don't have cables , but you have the connections actually in these in these lines on the on the board . These arethe actual keys that are being pressed . They close the electric circuit . That then sends the signal to the chip on the other side . That would be behind here . Um which uh sends it over to the transistors and all that stuffthatMarketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: amplify the signal and all that is being sent to the infrared lamp up there . Now as you can see this is the the rubber button version of it . {vocalsound} Um the way itworks is that you have the keys here . The rubber button has a little metal uh plate on the other side , which closes the circuit here . And thus gives on the signal . Now this is the simple version . {vocalsound} Um weare talking um this this the simple and cheapest version at the same time . We are talking something more complicated of course , it's going to be more expensive as well . And not only that . Um we are also restrictedin the use of our outer shell , or in the material that we could use for our outer shell . Um {vocalsound} I've gotten some information that we could use for the case material plastic , rubber , as well . Um rubber that isused in these anti-stress balls . So it's pretty squishy . That would that would serve that purpose .Marketing: {vocalsound} Spongy ?Industrial Designer: Um {vocalsound} we could also use wood , or titanium .ProjectManager: {vocalsound} What's the approximate per hundred thousand for the titanium ? {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: OhfyaMarketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I don't have an information on that . However our company {vocalsound} obviously can provide us with uh with the titanium , so I assume , I'm , I was given an okay touse it .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} It certainly is an expensive material ,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I'm aware of that , but I was given an okay .Marketing:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: But there are certain restrictions to certain materials . Now let's first go through the list with the materials . So we what we can use is plastic , rubber , wood and titanium . Can alsomix these . Um as for the energy source , um we were talking about that shortly in the other meeting . Um what we could use is , or what I was offered , or what we could use , is a basic bateer battery . Right ? Uh adynamo . Interestingly enough .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Um we could use solar cells . Or a device that was not n not further specified that provides kinetic energy . Such as like watches you know .Where you just move them m move the the actual device and this pr uh provides it with with uh some energy . So um obviously I personally have to say that dynamo is out of the question really .Project Manager:{vocalsound}User Interface: Mm .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: You don't wanna wind up your remote control before you can use it right ? Um solar cell is interesting . {vocalsound} May fail though ,every here and there .User Interface: Would you have to leave it by the window ?Industrial Designer: Mm . YeahUser Interface: {gap} yeah . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: . Or you know you lose it , it lies behindthe couch for a weekUser Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: and {disfmarker} yeah mm .Project Manager: Works well in Arizona but in Edinburgh not so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Always the {disfmarker} you{disfmarker} But {disfmarker}Marketing: Y probably not yeah .Industrial Designer: exactly .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Um the kinetic energy thing um might work , um but the same problem . You leaveit lying around and you first have to shake it before it it starts to work .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So I'd say what we're stuck with really is um the basic battery . Which also makes a base stationbasically obsolete . We don't need that then . Um {disfmarker} However our interface options are push-buttons . In which uh in the production of which or in manufacture of which um our company is expert . Um{disfmarker} However we've discussed that scroll wheels are a better option . And they are possible . We have an okay for scroll wheels . Okay . Um however {vocalsound} when it comes to the scroll wheel of the iPodI've one big objection and that is that we have to fit an L_C_D_ into the remote control as well . This however may exclude certain um materials . If you have a squishy uh kind of remote control , then an L_C_D_screen may be affected by the movement . Hence we might not be able to put it in there . So um {disfmarker} There's also restrictions {vocalsound} to , when it comes to the chip . If we have a more sophistic uhsophisticated scroll wheel rather than this very basic uh set-up that we that I've just presented , um the chip has to be more s more sophisticated and thus more expensive as well . I don't have any details to , when itcomes to the cost but um it will be a significant difference . I'd rather say drop the titanium and therefore let's have a more sophisticated chip , but that's not up to me to decide really . {vocalsound} So that's for the forthe scroll wheel . Um it limits our choice and squishy is hip , so I'd say rather not go for for that . Let's see now . Um um solar cells cannot be used on a curved or latex um surface or um remote control . But obviouslythat's not our problem um since we have decided or against solar cells , I assume right ? Or is anybody still {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound} No I think I think batteriesare probably the way to go .Industrial Designer: alright .Marketing: No . Hmm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Alright .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Uh which makes it very conventional but thereforetraditional I assume . Um {disfmarker} Um {disfmarker} With the titanium um we cannot make it a curved design . We would just be able to make it flat and and um yeah a straight design pretty much . Which Iassume would exclude uh some of the more sophisticated versions . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: Would the sort of {vocalsound} spongy and the the plasticky thing {disfmarker} y you can get thosemobile phones that initially have a {disfmarker} it is plastic but then they have sort of a a s a cover on it which is just sort of soft and stuff .Marketing: Mm . Like a covering . Yeah .User Interface: So I don't know if that


User Interface: Hmm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Good morning everybody .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Good morning . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound} Good morning .Marketing: Good morning .Project Manager: So , we are asked to to make uh uh a new remote control for television . And the characteristics of this new remote control should be originaland trendy and of course user user friendly . So people can {gap} can use it without any any problem .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {gap} .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I don'tknow .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Well , I think we should set the the points to to drive the project and uhUserInterface: Mm . B did you send us an email about this ?Project Manager: Uh , not yet ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: but if you want {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah ,we we received an email about this uh d designs . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Do you want do you want me to send you a mail ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Ah it's Okay .{vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Or you can put it in the shared folder .User Interface: Yeah , you see the email ? You {gap} email . The v very{disfmarker} no , no the first one .Marketing: No , I didn't get it .User Interface: It's inside .Project Manager: Uh {disfmarker}Marketing: This one .User Interface: No , no .Marketing: No .User Interface: The third one .Oh , you didn't get anything .Marketing: No , {gap} .User Interface: It's strange . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Mm . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {gap} .User Interface: I got an email about the dis about thediscussion . Yeah .Project Manager: You get email , {gap} . {vocalsound}User Interface: I dunno from who .Industrial Designer: Yeah , from the account manager .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}From the account manager . You have received the same email , right ?Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: I think it's for your guys to {vocalsound} how to design it all the aspects so you needthat information .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah , I think so .User Interface: Yeah , so each of us has a role to do .Marketing: YeahProject Manager: SMarketing: {vocalsound} I think {gap} assign youruh roles .User Interface: In each {disfmarker}Project Manager: For each for each one .User Interface: We already have our role .Marketing: For each person , yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound} 'Kay , we can{disfmarker}Project Manager: So there are {disfmarker} so we have three {disfmarker}User Interface: So there are three kinds of designs , that's all .Project Manager: f yeah . We have functional design , conceptualdesign , and detail design .User Interface: Okay , alright . {vocalsound}Project Manager: So , who will be the the responsible for the functional design ? Any any volunteer ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I think ouruh responsibilities will be assigned when we {disfmarker} in our mail we received from the account manager .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah , yeah .Industrial Designer: UhUser Interface: I'm doing the interface.Project Manager: You are doing thIndustrial Designer: No , I'm doing the interface . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {gap} .User Interface: Are you using the {disfmarker} you are doing the in {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: Yeah I I'm I'm {disfmarker} Well , maybe we have {disfmarker} okay so I {gap} industrial design . It was a little confusion about my uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Ah{vocalsound} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: but it's alright .Project Manager: Okay , I'll for industrial design .User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay . And and you {disfmarker}Norman ?User Interface: Mm ? Um working on i . {vocalsound} User interface . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: User .Project Manager: And {disfmarker} And {disfmarker}Marketing: Uh , I'm into marketing .ProjectManager: {gap} doing the marketing .Marketing: {gap} yeah nothing much in the project .Project Manager: Nothing related here to the {disfmarker}Marketing: Marketing in this design .User Interface: Yes .Marketing:A design is basically for industrial design and the user interface .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: You see the second mail ? Yeah , it's inside . Go down . Appendix .Marketing: Yeah , this is {gap} .UserInterface: See there's a role for everybody .Marketing: Yeah , that's right ,User Interface: Even for the marketing .Marketing: first {gap} . {gap} us user define .Project Manager: Next {gap} .User Interface: But look atyour role , your marketing role .Marketing: There's a trend watching .Project Manager: I don't know .User Interface: Yeah , that's your role .Project Manager: I {gap} .Industrial Designer: Well , I think we can have alittle discussion about what has to be doneProject Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and what are your ideas about the {disfmarker}Project Manager: About the design or {disfmarker} Maybe we'll discuss thislater , no ?Industrial Designer: Well , w we want to have a new re remote control for for T_V_ distribution I guess .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: So we have to {vocalsound} plan how how it would bedeveloped and uhUser Interface: Mm .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: how we can make it work {vocalsound} .User Interface: Yes .Marketing: I mean working remotes we already have . This will be somethingdifferent from the other remotes {disfmarker} remote controls .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: What we we have to keep in mind the {disfmarker} these characteristics .Industrial Designer: Yeah , Idunno I {disfmarker}Project Manager: And of course it should not be very costly .Marketing: Yeah , that's right .Project Manager: So {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .User Interface:Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well I I think that Norman and I would think about um the technical points and um we should discuss it in the next meeting , orUser Interface: Need to collect information .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: About the {disfmarker} about what ?User Interface: Um . {vocalsound} I I'm part of design , perhaps . Uh , what is most important in a{disfmarker} in a remote control ? What is the most important function aspect ? Uh .Project Manager: You mean the external {gap} or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Well , you have to make it work .ProjectManager: {vocalsound} Yeah of g of course .User Interface: {vocalsound} That's alright .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} That's the {vocalsound} that's the big thing .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface:Yeah , it should be easy to work with .Project Manager: Yeah {gap} .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: We can think about an interface with uh well {disfmarker}User Interface: Uh .We {disfmarker} maybe you can have a speech uh recognition interface . You just tell the television I want {disfmarker} which channel .Project Manager: You won't {disfmarker}User Interface: Or or you can say forexample , um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I want uh to list all the programme tonight . Y you know {gap} , instead of {gap} uh remote control it's doing the {disfmarker} some searching for you , so you don't have tolook for the channel you want . Just say maybe I just want to press {disfmarker} I wanna have a button for all the movies tonight . Or a button for all the magazines , all the information {disfmarker} documentarytonight . And then you list a few , and I will choose from the list . So instead of pressing the channel number , I am choosing the programmes directly . Yeah , that's one way of uh making it useful .Industrial Designer:Yeah , yeah .Project Manager: I I think if we include a lot of technology on the remote control it will be very costly .User Interface: No , because {disfmarker} no ,Project Manager: S {vocalsound}User Interface: it's notvery {disfmarker} a lot . Th this information exists . For example you can get um {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Project Manager: Like s uh you you you say we can use speech .User Interface: You can use uh {disfmarker}well for example {disfmarker} anything . {vocalsound} The {vocalsound} the idea of using speech to reduce the button , but uh and it's more natural . Yeah .Industrial Designer: I {disfmarker} I think if you want t tochoose uh from a list of programme or or something like that you you may have to to use uh w uh I dunnoMarketing: I'm a {disfmarker} okay .User Interface: Yeah . Yeah .Marketing: I mean the main uh function ofremote control is to have something in the handProject Manager: In the hand .Marketing: and we should be very careful about the size of the remote control .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .IndustrialDesigner: Yeah .Marketing: If we are going to add a speech interface , I'm not sure with {gap} trendy slim size of the remote control it would be able to put a speech recogUser Interface: Yeah . Yes , possible.Marketing: if you want to put a speech recognition system f interface for that I think the T_V_ itself could have it .User Interface: Yeah . But {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: And I could talk to theT_V_ {disfmarker} television itself .Project Manager: Except if if you are far from the T_V_ .Marketing: I need not have an {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing:I mean we have some {gap} or something , different technology but {disfmarker}Project Manager: This is {vocalsound} it's {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah , yeah . But th the main idea I wanted to s I wanted to sayis that um {vocalsound} there should be a function , instead of choosing the ch T_V_ channel , there's a option you can choose , either T_V_ channels or or pr or the or the contain or the contents of the programme.Industrial Designer: On the content .Marketing: Mm-hmm , yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah it's it's a good idea it's a good ideaProject Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: So it's more powerful . Yeah .IndustrialDesigner: but I I think that technically it would be um a little bit uh uh more tricky to to achieve this than just to {disfmarker}User Interface: No . No , because you see now all the T_V_ programmes are available onthe webs . They they are {disfmarker} they are {disfmarker} they are available in X_M_L_ format or whatever the format . We don't care . We just say that this are some content . We just want to retrieve the contentand then classi sort them by the types of programmes . Some of the websites they already provide this service ,Industrial Designer: Yeah yeah .User Interface: so we can just use the service available . Download it uhto the {disfmarker} to this remote control .Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: And then there's {disfmarker} there are only six buttons for six categories , or sev seven . The most there are only seven buttons . So Ijust choose the category one and you reuse the same button , for example to to choose among the the sorted list the programme you want , so {vocalsound} you don't have to choose among hundred channels , if youhave hundred channels , you just have six buttons , seven buttons .Project Manager: Yeah we should also optimise the the number of buttons .User Interface: Yeah , yeah .Industrial Designer: Well I I I I think that jjust by using navigation buttons and the user interface on the screen we are able to uh navigate uh through the {disfmarker} Well channel programme or contents or {disfmarker} in an easy way , so{disfmarker}Project Manager: This is {gap} good idea .User Interface: Yeah . Ah , yes . So {gap} . Yeah . Yeah , so you don't have to display here , just display on the T_V_ screen , right ?Industrial Designer: Yeah inthe dis display on the T_V_ screenUser Interface: Good idea {vocalsound} . Okay .Industrial Designer: and just uh with the with your remote control would just navigate through the fUser Interface: I think I think thatwill be revol revolutionary {vocalsound} .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Because all the T_V_ uh the the remote control have all numbers , lots of buttons and then youdunno what to choose in the end . Yeah . {vocalsound} Alright . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah . So {vocalsound} {disfmarker} I think for for the technical points we have to to to check how to gatherthe data from programme or contents and all this stuffUser Interface: Okay .Project Manager: So we have five minutes to {disfmarker}User Interface: Ah w w we have sometimes to use the white-board .ProjectManager: Ah you can y you can you can use it if you {disfmarker} so , can weIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Five minutes .Marketing: And another interesting idea for this would be tohave an light adaptation system depending upon the picture of {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay . Okay .Marketing: So , I mean , if you're watching a movie and suddenly there is a dark uh {vocalsound} some darkscene , the lights adapt themself .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: SUser Interface: Yeah .Marketing: The lighting in the room changes .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah , but we aredesigning just remote control .Project Manager: You {disfmarker} it {gap} .Marketing: I mean , we have a option in the remote control . If we want to have that option , you press that button in the remote .UserInterface: Okay .Industrial Designer: Oh right so {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay , do you want to have a conceptual remote control there , or you just want to put the function in ?Project Manager: Yeah . If if you youyou can if you want you can use th the {gap} .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Please , Norman , draw uh {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} Go on , draw something {gap} . {vocalsound} Mm .Marketing: Oh, I'm afraid you forgot to put your lapel .User Interface: Where is it ?Marketing: The lapel .Project Manager: Or before the before the the design that says {gap} .User Interface: Ah , okay .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}User Interface: Where where is it ? Here .Marketing: Yeah , that one .Project Manager: Norman .Marketing: Just plug it .User Interface: Mm .Marketing: Yeah , that's right .Project Manager: Be beforebefore writing you can uh sit and that says {gap} what we what we saidUser Interface: Mm .Project Manager: then after that you can you can use the {gap} . Yeah .User Interface: Okay , alright . So so the mostfunctional des mm the most important function is to ch choo buttons to choose the content . Right ? We agree on that , right ?Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Uh , uh first one is to uh{vocalsound} buttons i or it could be anything with {gap} buttons . Uh to choose uh content s or channels .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: So we have both . The user can choose w which one they want , right?Industrial Designer: Yeah , by content or by channel ,User Interface: By content or by channel .Industrial Designer: it's a good idea .User Interface: Choose by contents or by channels . And then what did we say justnow ? Other than this .Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: And uh we we have to find a way how to gather information about the contents .User Interface: Okay , so technically how {disfmarker} the problemsthat {disfmarker} how to do it is to {disfmarker} how to get the content .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .User Interface: Challenge .Industrial Designer: I think i it's not very difficult to to browse by channelbut it's a little bit tricky to browse by contents so {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay . Content . Okay , so these we have to work it out . So this one of the problem . And uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: I think that's the {gap} the things to doUser Interface: The main thing .Industrial Designer: and uh to uh reflect about itUser Interface: Okay . Alright . Alright , okay .Industrial Designer: and uh discuss it inthe next meeting .User Interface: So we are {disfmarker} we'll discuss it {disfmarker} we will get some information in the next meeting , so for now we get uh the funct this is the functional designer {gap} ? That's thefirst aspect . Right . We will {gap} get information and then we'll come back in . {gap} .Industrial Designer: Okay . Thank you everybody . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah , we'llcome .Project Manager: So maybe we'll meet in maybe five minutes ? And we'll discuss the other other aspects .User Interface: Alright . Alright , okay .Industrial Designer: Okay . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .Well thank you all {gap} . {vocalsound}User Interface: Thank you , mis {vocalsound}


Postdoc A: OK .Grad G: How about channelProfessor C: Yeah , go ahead .Grad E: We 're recording .Grad G: Alright .Professor C: Alright , and no crash .Postdoc A: Hmm .Grad E: I pre - crashed it .Professor C: Yeah.PhD F: Pre - crashed !PhD D: It never crashes on me .Grad E: I think it 's actually {disfmarker}PhD D: What is {disfmarker} what is that ?Grad E: it depends on if the temp files are there or not , that {disfmarker} atleast that 's my current working hypothesis ,PhD D: Ah .Grad E: that I think what happens is it tries to clear the temp files and if they 're too big , it crashes .PhD D: Ah .PhD B: When the power went out the other dayand I restarted it , it crashed the first time .Grad E: Oh , that 's right .PhD B: After the power outPhD D: So then there would be no temp files .Professor C: Yeah .PhD D: OK . {comment} Hmm .Grad E: Uh , no , itdoesn't {disfmarker} it doesn't clear those necessarily ,PhD D: Oh wait {disfmarker} It {disfmarker} it doesn't clear them , OK .Grad E: so .Professor C: Hmm , no connection .Grad E: It 's {disfmarker} i they 're calledtemp files , but they 're not actually in the temp directory they 're in the scratch , so . They 're not backed up , but they 're not erased either on power failure .PhD D: But that 's usually the meeting that I recorded , andit neve it doesn't crash on me .PhD B: Well this wasn't {disfmarker} Actually , this wasn't a before your meeting , this was , um , Tuesday afternoon when , um , uh , Robert just wanted to do a little recording ,Grad E:Oh well .PhD D: Oh {disfmarker} Oh , right .PhD B: and the power had gone out earlier in the day .PhD D: OK . Huh , OK .Professor C: I don't know when would be a good excuse for it , but I just can't wait to be givinga talk t and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and use the example from last week with everybody t doing the digits at once .Grad E: Yeah .Postdoc A: That was fun .Professor C: I 'd love to play somebody that .PostdocA: That was fun .PhD D: It was quick .Professor C: It was . It was really efficient .PhD B: Talk about a good noise shield . You know ? You wanted to pe keep people from listening in , you could like have that playingoutside the room . Nobody could listen in .Professor C: Yeah .PhD D: Well , I had this idea we could make our whole meeting faster that way .Professor C: Yeah . Everybody give the reports about what they were doingat exactly the same time ,PhD D: And we 'll just all leave ,PhD B: And then we 'll {disfmarker} we 'll go back later and review the individual channels ,Professor C: yeah .PhD D: and {disfmarker}Grad E: Yep , and theneveryone can listen to it later .PhD B: right ?Grad E: Yes . Absolutely .PhD B: If you wanna know what {disfmarker}Professor C: Actually isn't that what we have been doing ?PhD D: Yeah .Grad E: It 's what it soundslike .PhD B: Practically , huh . With all the overlaps .Postdoc A: Yeah .Professor C: What are we doing ?Grad E: I {disfmarker} Since I 've been gone all week , I didn't send out a reminder for an agenda , so .ProfessorC: Yeah , and I 'm just {disfmarker}Grad E: Do we have anything to talk about or should we just read digits and go ?PhD B: I wouldn't mind hearing how the conference was .Professor C: What conference ?PhD D: Uh ,I had one question about {disfmarker}Grad E: Yeah , really . It 's all a blur .PhD D: Aren't the UW folks coming this weekend ?Grad E: Yep .PhD F: No . The next ,PhD D: Next weekend ?Grad E: Next weekend , weekfrom {disfmarker}PhD F: right ?Professor C: That is right . The next weekend .PhD D: Sorry , not {disfmarker} not {disfmarker} not the days coming up , but {disfmarker}PhD F: It 's like the {disfmarker}Grad E: Aweek from Saturday .PhD D: Yeah ,Professor C: That 's when they 're coming .PhD D: within ten days .Professor C: That 's correct .PhD D: So , are we {disfmarker} do we have like an agenda or anything that weshould be {disfmarker}Professor C: No , but that would be a good idea .PhD D: OK .Professor C: Why don't we wPhD F: So {disfmarker} so the deal is that I can , um , {vocalsound} uh , I can be available after , uh ,like ten thirty or something . I don't know how s how early you wanted to {disfmarker}Professor C: They 're not even gonna be here until eleven or so .Grad E: That 's good .PhD F: Oh , OK . So {disfmarker}ProfessorC: Cuz they 're flying up that day .PhD D: Wait , this is on {disfmarker} on Sunday ?Professor C: Saturday .PhD D: Or Saturday ?Professor C: Saturday .PhD F: Saturday .Professor C: S Saturday .PhD D: OK .Grad E:Well , yProfessor C: Yeah .PhD F: Mm - hmm .Grad E: Eurospeech is due on Friday and then I 'm going down to San {disfmarker} uh , San Jose Friday night , so , if {disfmarker} you know , if we start nice and lateSaturday that 's a good thing .Professor C: No , I mean , they 're flying up from {disfmarker} from {disfmarker}Grad E: Seattle .Professor C: down from Seattle .Grad E: They 're flying from somewhere to somewhere,Professor C: Yeah , and they 'll end up here . So b and also Brian Kingsbury is actually flying from , uh , the east coast on that {disfmarker} that morning .Postdoc A: Excellent .Professor C: So , i I {disfmarker} I willbe {disfmarker} I mean , he 's taking a very early flightPhD F: Oh .Professor C: and we do have the time work difference running the right way , but I still think that there 's no way we could start before eleven . Itmight end up really being twelve . So when we get closer we 'll find people 's plane schedules , and let everybody know . Uh , So . That 's good .Grad E: But , uh , yeah maybe an agenda , or at least some things to talkabout would be a good idea .Professor C: Well we can start gathering those {disfmarker} those ideas , but then we {disfmarker} we should firm it up by next {disfmarker} next Thursday 's meeting .Postdoc A: Will wehave time to , um , to prepare something that we {disfmarker} in the format we were planning for the IBM transcribers by then , or {disfmarker} ?Grad E: Oh yeah . Absolutely .Postdoc A: OK .Grad E: So have youheard back from Brian about that , Chuck ?PhD B: Yes , um , he 's {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I 'm sorry , I should have forwarded that along . Uh , {vocalsound} oh I {disfmarker} I think I mentioned at the lastmeeting , he said that , um , he talked to them and it was fine {disfmarker} with the beeps they would be {disfmarker} That 's easy for them to do .Grad E: Great . OK . So , uh , oh , though Thi - Thilo isn't here , um ,but , uh , I {disfmarker} I have the program to insert the beeps . What I don't have is something to parse the output of the channelized transcripts to find out where to put the beeps , but that should be really easy todo . So do we have a meeting that that 's been done with ,Postdoc A: He 's {disfmarker} he 's {disfmarker}Grad E: that we 've tightened it up to the point where we can actually give it to IBM and have them try it out?Postdoc A: He generated , um , a channel - wise presegmented version of a meeting , but it was Robustness rather than EDU so I guess depends on whether we 're willing to use Robustness ?PhD B: Well for thisexperiment I think we can use pre pretty much anything .Grad E: Mm - hmm .Postdoc A: OK .PhD B: This experiment of just {disfmarker}Grad E: Well we had {disfmarker} we had talked about doing maybe EDU as agood choice , though . Well , {vocalsound} whatever we have .PhD B: Well we 've talked about that as being the next ones we wanted to transcribe .Grad E: Right .Postdoc A: OK .PhD B: But for the purpose of sendinghim a sample one to {disfmarker} fGrad E: Yeah , maybe it doesn't matter .Postdoc A: Great .PhD B: I {disfmarker} I don't think it mattePostdoc A: I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll , um , get {disfmarker} makethat available .Grad E: OK , and has it been corrected ?Postdoc A: Oh , well , wait . Um {disfmarker}Grad E: Hand - checked ? Cuz that was one of the {vocalsound} processes we were talking about as well .PhD B:Right , so we need to run Thilo 's thing on it ,Postdoc A: That 's right .PhD B: and then we go in and adjust the boundaries .Postdoc A: Yeah that 's right . Yeah , we haven't done that . I {disfmarker} I could setsomeone on that tomorrow .PhD B: Right .Grad E: And time how long it takes .PhD B: OK .Postdoc A: I think they 're coming {disfmarker}PhD B: And we probably don't have to do necessarily a whole meeting for that ifwe just wanna send them a sample to try .Postdoc A: OK . What would be a good number of minutes ?PhD B: I don't know , maybe we can figure out how long it 'll take @ @ to {disfmarker} to do .Grad E: Um , I don'tknow , it seems to me w we probably should go ahead and do a whole meeting because we 'll have to transcribe the whole meeting anyway sometime .Professor C: Yes except that if they had {disfmarker} if there wasa choice between having fifteen minutes that was fully the way you wanted it , and having a whole meeting that didn't get at what you wanted for them {disfmarker} It 's just dependent of how much {disfmarker}GradE: Like I {disfmarker} I mean I guess if we have to do it again anyway , but , uhProfessor C: Yeah .PhD B: I guess , the only thing I 'm not sure about is , um , how quickly can the transcribers scan over and fix theboundaries ,Postdoc A: Mm - hmm .PhD B: and {disfmarker} I mean , is it pretty easy ?Grad E: I think it 's gonna be one or two times real time at {disfmarker} Wow , excuse me , two or more times real time , right ?Cuz they have to at least listen to it .Professor C: Can we pipeline it so that say there 's , uh , the transcriber gets done with a quarter of the meeting and then we {disfmarker} you run it through this other {disfmarker}other stuff ? Uh ,Grad E: Well the other stuff is I B I 'm just thinking that from a data {disfmarker} keeping - track - of - the - data point of view , it may be best to send them whole meetings at a time and not try tosend them bits and pieces .Professor C: OK , so . Oh , that 's right . So the first thing is the automatic thing , and then it 's {disfmarker} then it 's {disfmarker} then it 's the transcribers tightening stuff up ,Grad E:Right .Postdoc A: Mm - hmm .Professor C: and then it 's IBM .Postdoc A: Mm - hmm , mm - hmm .Grad E: Right .Professor C: OK , so you might as well ha run the automatic thing over the entire meeting , and then{disfmarker} and then , uh , you would give IBM whatever was fixed .Postdoc A: And have them fix it over the entire meeting too ?Grad E: Right .Professor C: Well , yeah , but start from the beginning and go to theend , right ? So if they were only half way through then that 's what you 'd give IBM .Postdoc A: OK .Professor C: Right ?PhD B: As of what point ? I mean . The {disfmarker} I guess the question on my mind is do wewait for the transcribers to adjust the marks for the whole meeting before we give anything to IBM , or do we go ahead and send them a sample ? Let their {disfmarker}Professor C: Why wouldn't we s @ @ w i if theywere going sequentially through it , why wouldn't we give them {disfmarker} I mean i are we trying to get something done by the time Brian comes ?PhD B: Well I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I mean , I don't know.Grad E: That was the question . Though .Professor C: So if we {disfmarker} if we were , then it seems like giving them something , whatever they had gotten up to , would be better than nothing .PhD B: Yeah . Uh .That {disfmarker} I agree . I agree .Grad E: Well , I don't think {disfmarker} I mean , h they {disfmarker} they typically work for what , four hours , something like that ?Postdoc A: Hmm , I gue hmm .Grad E: I thinkthe they should be able to get through a whole meeting in one sitting . I would think , unless it 's a lot harder than we think it is , which it could be , certainly .Postdoc A: If it 's got like for speakers then I guess{disfmarker} I mean if {disfmarker}PhD B: We 're just doing the individual channels ,Grad E: Or seven or eight .PhD B: right ?Postdoc A: Individual channels . Yeah .PhD B: So it 's gonna be , depending on the numberof people in the meeting , um ,Postdoc A: I guess there is this issue of , you know , if {disfmarker} if the segmenter thought there was no speech on {disfmarker} on a particular stretch , on a particular channel ,GradE: Well {disfmarker}Postdoc A: and there really was , then , if it didn't show up in a mixed signal to verify , then it might be overlooked , so , I mean , the question is " should {disfmarker} should a transcriber listen tothe entire thing or can it g can it be based on the mixed signal ? " And I th eh so far as I 'm concerned it 's fine to base it on the mixed signal at this point , and {disfmarker}Grad E: That 's what it seems to me too , inthat if they need to , just like in the other cases , they can listen to the individual , if they need to .Postdoc A: And that cuts down the time . Yeah .Grad E: But they don't have to for most of it .Postdoc A: Yeah , that 'sgood . So . Yeah . Good , good , good .PhD B: I don't see how that will work , though .Postdoc A: What {disfmarker} what aspect ?Professor C: So you 're talking about tightening up time boundaries ?PhD B: Yeah.Professor C: So how do you {disfmarker}Grad E: So , they have the normal channeltrans interface where they have each individual speaker has their own line ,PhD B: Yeah .Grad E: but you 're listening to the mixedsignal and you 're tightening the boundaries , correcting the boundaries . You shouldn't have to tighten them too much because Thilo 's program does that .Postdoc A: Should be pretty good , yeah .PhD D: Except for{vocalsound} it doesn't do well on short things , remember .Grad E: Right , so {disfmarker} so you 'll have to I {disfmarker}PhD D: It will miss them . It will miss most of the really short things .Grad E: Uh - huh .PhDD: Like that .Postdoc A: But those would be {disfmarker} those would be {disfmarker}PhD D: Uh - huh . It will {disfmarker} it will miss {disfmarker}Grad E: Uh - huh !PhD D: Yeah , you have to say " uh - huh " moreslowly to {disfmarker} to get cGrad E: Sorry .PhD D: No , I 'm s I 'm actually serious .Grad E: I 'll work on that .PhD D: So it will miss stuff like that which {disfmarker}PhD B: I {disfmarker}Grad E: Well , so{disfmarker} so that 's something that the transcribers will have to {disfmarker} have to do .Postdoc A: Yeah , but presumably , most of those they should be able to hear from the mixed signal unless they 'reembedded in the heavil heavy overlap section when {disfmarker} in which case they 'd be listening to the channels anyway .PhD B: That 's {disfmarker} that 's what I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm concerned about the part.PhD D: Right , and that 's what I 'm not sure about .Postdoc A: Yeah , I am too . And I think it 's an empirical question .PhD B: Can't we {disfmarker} uh couldn't we just have , um , I don't know , maybe this justdoesn't fit with the software , but I guess if I didn't know anything about Transcriber and I was gonna make something to let them adjust boundaries , I would just show them one channel at a time , with the marks ,and let them adjuPostdoc A: Oh they can {disfmarker}Grad E: Well , but then they have to do {disfmarker} but then they {disfmarker} for this meeting they would have to do seven times real time , and it wouldprobably be more than that .Postdoc A: Yeah , that 's it . Yeah .Grad E: Right ? Because they 'd have to at least listen to each channel all the way through .Postdoc A: And if {disfmarker}PhD B: But i but it 's very quick,Postdoc A: Uh - huh .PhD B: right ? I mean , you scan {disfmarker} I mean , if you have a display of the waveform .Postdoc A: Yeah .Grad E: Oh , you 're talking about visually .Postdoc A: w Well , the other problem isthe breathsGrad E: I just don't think {disfmarker}Postdoc A: cuz you also see the breaths on the waveform . I 've {disfmarker} I 've looked at the int uh , s I 've tried to do that with a single channel , and {disfmarker}and you do see all sorts of other stuff besides just the voice .PhD B: Uh - huh .Grad E: Yeah , and I {disfmarker} I think that they 're going much more on acoustics than they are on visuals .Postdoc A: Well that{disfmarker} that I 'm not sure .Grad E: So .Postdoc A: What you {disfmarker} the digital {disfmarker} what the digital task that you had your interface ? Um , I know for a fact that one of those {disfmarker} sh shecould really well {disfmarker} she could judge what th what the number was based on the {disfmarker} on the waveform .Grad E: Yeah , that 's actually true . Yeah , you 're right . You 're absolutely right . Yeah , Ifound the same thing that when I was scanning through the wave form {vocalsound} I could see when someone started to read digits just by the shapes .Postdoc A: Yeah , she could tell which one was seven .Grad E:Um , maybe .Postdoc A: Yeah .Professor C: So I don't {disfmarker} I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm now entirely confused about what they do .Grad E: But {disfmarker}Professor C: So , they 're {disfmarker} they 're looking ata mixed signal , or they 're looking {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what are they looking at visually ?Postdoc A: Well , they have a choice . They could choose any signal to look at . I 've tried lookin but usually theylook at the mixed . But I 've {disfmarker} I 've tried looking at the single signal and {disfmarker} and in order to judge when it {disfmarker} when it was speech and when it wasn't ,Grad E: Oh .Postdoc A: but theproblem is then you have breaths which {disfmarker} which show up on the signal .Professor C: But the procedure that you 're imagining , I mean , people vary from this , is that they have the mixed signal wave formin front of them ,Postdoc A: Yes .PhD F: Postdoc A: Yes .Professor C: and they have multiple , uh , well , let 's see , there isn't {disfmarker} we don't have transcription yet . So {disfmarker} but there 's markers ofsome sort that have been happening automatically ,Postdoc A: Yes .Grad E: Right .Professor C: and those show up on the mixed signal ?Postdoc A: Oh ,Professor C: There 's a @ @ clicks ?Grad E: N the tPostdoc A: theyshow up on the separate ribbons . So you have a separate ribbon for each channel ,Professor C: There 're separate ribbons .Grad E: Right .Postdoc A: and {disfmarker} and i i it 'll be {disfmarker} because it 's beingsegmented as channel at a time with his {disfmarker} with Thilo 's new procedure , then you don't have the correspondence of the times across the bins {disfmarker} uh across the ribbons uh you could have{disfmarker}Professor C: And is there a line moving across the waveform as it goes ?Grad E: Yes .Postdoc A: Yes .Professor C: OK , so The way you 're imaging is they kind of play it , and they see oh this happened ,then this happened , then {disfmarker} and if it 's about right , they just sort of let it slide ,Postdoc A: Yeah .Grad E: Right . Right .Professor C: and if it {disfmarker} if it {disfmarker} there 's a question on something ,they stop and maybe look at the individual wave form .Postdoc A: Oh , well not {disfmarker} not " look " .Grad E: Right . Well , they wouldn't look at it {pause} at this point . They would just listen .Professor C: They{disfmarker} they might look at it , right ?Grad E: Well , the problem is that the {disfmarker} the interface doesn't really allow you to switch visuals .Postdoc A: Not very quickly .Grad E: The problem is that{disfmarker} that {disfmarker} the Tcl - TK interface with the visuals , it 's very slow to load waveforms .Postdoc A: You can but it takes time . That 's it .Professor C: Uh - huh .Grad E: And so when I tried {disfmarker}that {disfmarker} that was the first thing I tried when I first started it ,Postdoc A: Oh , oh . Visually . You can {disfmarker} you can switch quickly between the audio ,Grad E: right ?Postdoc A: but you just can't get thevisual display to show quickly . So you have to {disfmarker} It takes , I don't know , three , four minutes to {disfmarker} Well , I mean , it takes {disfmarker} it takes long enough {disfmarker}PhD D: Yeah , it 's veryslow to do that .Postdoc A: It takes long enough cuz it has to reload the I {disfmarker} I don't know exactly what it 's doing frankly cuz {disfmarker} but it t it takes long enough that it 's just not a practical alternative.PhD D: That wGrad E: Well it {disfmarker} it does some sort of shape pre - computation so that it can then scroll it quickly ,Grad G: But you can cancel that .PhD D: Yeah .Grad E: yeah . But then you can't change theresolution or scroll quickly .Grad G: Oh , really ?Postdoc A: Now you could set up multiple windows , each one with a different signal showing , and then look between the windows .Grad E: So .Grad G: Huh !Postdoc A:Maybe that 's the solution .Grad E: I mean , we {disfmarker} we could do different interfaces ,Grad G: What if you preload them all ?Grad E: right ? I mean , so {disfmarker} so we could use like X Waves instead ofTranscriber ,Postdoc A: Yeah .Grad E: and it loads faster , certainly .Grad G: What if you were to preload all the channels or {disfmarker} or initially {disfmarker}Grad E: Well that 's what I tried originally .Grad G: likedoesn't {disfmarker}Grad E: So I {disfmarker} I actually before , uh , Dave Gelbart did this , I did an interface which showed each waveform and ea a ribbon for each waveform ,Grad G: Mm - hmm .Grad E: but the


Professor C: OK . So uh , he 's not here ,PhD D: So .Professor C: so you get to {disfmarker}PhD D: Yeah , I will try to explain the thing that I did this {disfmarker} this week {disfmarker} during this week .Professor C:Yeah .PhD D: Well eh you know that I work {disfmarker} I begin to work with a new feature to detect voice - unvoice .PhD E: Mm - hmm .PhD D: What I trying two MLP to {disfmarker} to the {disfmarker} with thisnew feature and the fifteen feature uh from the eh bus base systemPhD E: The {disfmarker} the mel cepstrum ?PhD D: No , satly the mes the Mel Cepstrum , the new base system {disfmarker} the new base system.PhD E: Oh the {disfmarker}PhD D: Yeah , we {disfmarker}PhD E: OK , the Aurora system .PhD D: yeah the Aurora system with the new filter , VAD or something like that .PhD E: OK .PhD D: And I 'm trying two MLP ,one one that only have t three output , voice , unvoice , and silence ,Professor C: Mm - hmm .PhD D: and other one that have fifty - six output . The probabilities of the allophone . And I tried to do some experiment ofrecognition with that and only have result with {disfmarker} with the MLP with the three output . And I put together the fifteen features and the three MLP output . And , well , the result are li a little bit better , but moreor less similar .Professor C: Uh , I {disfmarker} I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm slightly confused .PhD E: Hmm .Professor C: What {disfmarker} what feeds the uh {disfmarker} the three - output net ?PhD D: Voice , unvoice ,and siProfessor C: No no , what feeds it ? What features does it see ?PhD D: The feature {disfmarker} the input ? The inputs are the fifteen {disfmarker} the fifteen uh bases feature .Professor C: Uh - huh .PhD D: the{disfmarker} with the new code . And the other three features are R , the variance of the difference between the two spectrum ,Professor C: Uh - huh .PhD D: the variance of the auto - correlation function , except the{disfmarker} the first point , because half the height value is R - zeroProfessor C: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .PhD D: and also R - zero , the first coefficient of the auto - correlation function . Thatis like the energy with these three feature ,Professor C: Right .PhD D: also these three feature .Professor C: You wouldn't do like R - one over R - zero or something like that ? I mean usually for voiced - unvoiced you 'ddo {disfmarker} yeah , you 'd do something {disfmarker} you 'd do energyPhD D: Yeah .Professor C: but then you have something like spectral slope , which is you get like R - one ov over R - zero or something likethat .PhD D: Uh yeah .PhD E: What are the R 's ?Professor C: R correlations .PhD E: I 'm sorry I missed it .PhD D: No , R c No .PhD E: Oh .PhD D: Auto - correlation ? Yes , yes , the variance of the auto - correlationfunction that uses thatProfessor C: Ye - Well that 's the variance , but if you just say " what is {disfmarker} " I mean , to first order , um yeah one of the differences between voiced , unvoiced and silence is energy .Another one is {disfmarker} but the other one is the spectral shape .PhD D: Yeah , I I 'll {disfmarker} The spectral shape ,Professor C: Yeah , and so R - one over R - zero is what you typically use for that .PhD D: yeah. No , I don't use that {disfmarker} I can't use {disfmarker}Professor C: No , I 'm saying that 's what people us typically use .PhD D: Mmm .Professor C: See , because it {disfmarker} because this is {disfmarker} thisis just like a single number to tell you um " does the spectrum look like that or does it look like that " .PhD D: Mm - hmm .Grad A: Oh . R {disfmarker} R {disfmarker} R - zero .Professor C: Right ?PhD D: Mm - hmm.Professor C: So if it 's {disfmarker} if it 's um {disfmarker} if it 's low energy uh but the {disfmarker} but the spectrum looks like that or like that , it 's probably silence .PhD D: Mm - hmm .Professor C: Uh but if it 'slow energy and the spectrum looks like that , it 's probably unvoiced .PhD D: Yeah .Professor C: So if you just {disfmarker} if you just had to pick two features to determine voiced - unvoiced , you 'd pick somethingabout the spectrum like uh R - one over R - zero , um and R - zeroPhD D: Mm - hmm , OK .Professor C: or i i you know you 'd have some other energy measure and like in the old days people did like uh zero crossingcounts .PhD D: Yeah , yeah .Professor C: Right . S SPhD D: Well , I can also th use this .Professor C: Yeah . Um ,PhD D: Bec - because the result are a little bit better but we have in a point that everything is more orless the similar {disfmarker} more or less similar .Professor C: Yeah . But umPhD D: It 's not quite better .Professor C: Right , but it seemed to me that what you were what you were getting at before was that there issomething about the difference between the original signal or the original FFT and with the filter which is what {disfmarker} and the variance was one take uh on it .PhD D: Yeah , I used this too .Professor C: Right . Butit {disfmarker} it could be something else . Suppose you didn't have anything like that . Then in that case , if you have two nets , Alright , and this one has three outputs , and this one has fPhD D: Mm - hmm .ProfessorC: whatever , fifty - six , or something ,PhD D: Mm - hmm .Professor C: if you were to sum up the probabilities for the voiced and for the unvoiced and for the silence here , we 've found in the past you 'll do better atvoiced - unvoiced - silence than you do with this one . So just having the three output thing doesn't {disfmarker} doesn't really buy you anything . The issue is what you feed it .PhD D: Yeah . Yeah , I have{disfmarker} yeah .Professor C: So uhPhD D: No {disfmarker}PhD E: So you 're saying take the features that go into the voiced - unvoiced - silence net and feed those into the other one , as additional inputs , ratherthan having a separate {disfmarker}Professor C: w W well that 's another way .PhD D: Yeah .Professor C: That wasn't what I was saying but yeah that 's certainly another thing to do . No I was just trying to say if you bif you bring this into the picture over this , what more does it buy you ?PhD E: Mmm .Professor C: And what I was saying is that the only thing I think that it buys you is um based on whether you feed it somethingdifferent . And something different in some fundamental way . And so the kind of thing that {disfmarker} that she was talking about before , was looking at something uh ab um {disfmarker} something uh about thedifference between the {disfmarker} the uh um log FFT uh log power uh and the log magnitude uh F F - spectrum uh and the um uh filter bank .PhD D: Yeah .Professor C: And so the filter bank is chosen in fact to sortof integrate out the effects of pitch and she 's saying you know trying {disfmarker} So the particular measure that she chose was the variance of this m of this difference , but that might not be the right number .PhD D:Mm - hmm . Maybe .Professor C: Right ? I mean maybe there 's something about the variance that 's {disfmarker} that 's not enough or maybe there 's something else that {disfmarker} that one could use , but I thinkthat , for me , the thing that {disfmarker} that struck me was that uh you wanna get something back here , so here 's {disfmarker} here 's an idea . uh What about it you skip all the {disfmarker} all the really cleverthings , and just fed the log magnitude spectrum into this ?PhD D: Ah {disfmarker} I 'm sorry .Professor C: This is f You have the log magnitude spectrum , and you were looking at that and the difference between thefilter bank and {disfmarker} and c c computing the variance .PhD D: Yeah . Mm - hmm .Professor C: That 's a clever thing to do .PhD D: Mm - hmm .Professor C: What if you stopped being clever ? And you just tookthis thing in here because it 's a neural net and neural nets are wonderfulPhD D: Mm - hmm .Professor C: and figure out what they can {disfmarker} what they most need from things , and I mean that 's what they 'regood at .PhD D: Yeah .Professor C: So I mean you 're {disfmarker} you 're {disfmarker} you 're trying to be clever and say what 's the statistic that should {disfmarker} we should get about this difference but uh infact , you know maybe just feeding this in or {disfmarker} or feeding both of them inPhD E: Hmm .Professor C: you know , another way , saying let it figure out what 's the {disfmarker} what is the interaction ,especially if you do this over multiple frames ?PhD D: Mm - hmm .Professor C: Then you have this over time , and {disfmarker} and both kinds of measures and uh you might get uh something better .PhD D: Mm -hmm .Professor C: Um .PhD E: So {disfmarker} so don't uh {disfmarker} don't do the division , but let the net have everything .Professor C: That 's another thing you could do yeah . Yeah .PhD D: Yeah .Professor C:Um . I mean , it seems to me , if you have exactly the right thing then it 's better to do it without the net because otherwise you 're asking the net to learn this {disfmarker} you know , say if you wanted to learn how todo multiplication .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor C: I mean you could feed it a bunch of s you could feed two numbers that you wanted to multiply into a net and have a bunch of nonlinearities in the middle and train it toget the product of the output and it would work . But , it 's kind of crazy , cuz we know how to multiply and you {disfmarker} you 'd be you know much lower error usually {vocalsound} if you just multiplied it out . Butsuppose you don't really know what the right thing is . And that 's what these sort of dumb machine learning methods are good at . So . Um . Anyway . It 's just a thought .PhD E: How long does it take , Carmen , totrain up one of these nets ?PhD D: Oh , not too much .PhD E: Yeah .PhD D: Mmm , one day or less .PhD E: Hmm .Professor C: Yeah , it 's probably worth it .Grad A: What are {disfmarker} what are your f uh frameerror rates for {disfmarker} for this ?PhD D: Eh fifty - f six uh no , the frame error rate ?Grad A: OPhD D: Fifty - six I think .Professor C: Is that {disfmarker} maybe that 's accuracy ?PhD D: Percent .Grad A: Fif - fifty -six percent accurate for v voice - unvoicePhD D: The accuracy . Mm - hmm . No for , yes f I don't remember for voice - unvoice ,Grad A: Oh , OK .PhD D: maybe for the other one .Grad A: OK .Professor C: Yeah , voiced- unvoiced hopefully would be a lot better .PhD D: for voiced . I don't remeGrad A: Should be in nineties somewhere .PhD D: Better . Maybe for voice - unvoice .Grad A: Right .PhD D: This is for the other one . I should{disfmarker} I can't show that .Grad A: OK .PhD D: But I think that fifty - five was for the {disfmarker} when the output are the fifty - six phone .Grad A: Mm - hmm .PhD D: That I look in the {disfmarker} with theother {disfmarker} nnn the other MLP that we have are more or less the same number . Silence will be better but more or less the same .Professor C: I think at the frame level for fifty - six that was the kind of numberwe were getting for {disfmarker} for uh um reduced band width uh stuff .PhD D: I think that {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think that for the other one , for the three output , is sixty sixty - two , sixtythree more or less .Grad A: Mm - hmm .Professor C: That 's all ?PhD D: It 's {disfmarker} Yeah .Professor C: That 's pretty bad .PhD D: Yeah , because it 's noise also .Grad A: Oh yeah .Professor C: Aha !PhD D: Andwe haveProfessor C: Aha ! Yeah . Yeah . OK .PhD D: I know .Professor C: But even i in {disfmarker} Oh yeah , in training . Still , Uh . Well actually , so this is a test that you should do then . Um , if you 're getting fifty -six percent over here , uh that 's in noise also , right ?PhD D: Yeah , yeah , yeah .Professor C: Oh OK . If you 're getting fifty - six here , try adding together the probabilities of all of the voiced phones here and all of theunvoiced phonesPhD D: will be {disfmarker}Professor C: and see what you get then .PhD D: Yeah .Professor C: I bet you get better than sixty - three .PhD D: Well I don't know , but {disfmarker} I th I {disfmarker} Ithink that we {disfmarker} I have the result more or less . Maybe . I don't know . I don't {disfmarker} I 'm not sure but I remember @ @ that I can't show that .Professor C: OK , but that 's a {disfmarker} That is a{disfmarker} a good check point , you should do that anyway ,PhD D: Yeah .Professor C: OK ? Given this {disfmarker} this uh regular old net that 's just for choosing for other purposes , uh add up the probabilities ofthe different subclasses and see {disfmarker} see how well you do . Uh and that {disfmarker} you know anything that you do over here should be at least as good as that .PhD D: Mm - hmm .Professor C: OK .PhD D: Iwill do that . But {disfmarker}PhD E: The targets for the neural net , uh , they come from forced alignments ?PhD D: Uh , {comment} no .Grad A: TIMIT canonical ma mappings .PhD D: TIMIT .Professor C: Oh . So ,this is trained on TIMIT .PhD E: Ah ! OK .Grad A: Yeah , noisy TIMIT .PhD D: Yeah .Professor C: OK .PhD D: Yeah this for TIMIT .Professor C: But noisy TIMIT ?Grad A: Right .PhD D: Noisy TIMIT . We have noisy TIMITwith the noise of the {disfmarker} the TI - digits . And now we have another noisy TIMIT also with the noise of uh Italian database .Professor C: I see . Yeah . Well there 's gonna be {disfmarker} it looks like there 'sgonna be a noisy uh {disfmarker} some large vocabulary noisy stuff too . Somebody 's preparing .PhD E: Really ?Professor C: Yeah . I forget what it 'll be , resource management , Wall Street Journal , something .Some {disfmarker} some read task actually , that they 're {disfmarker} preparing .Grad A: Hmm !PhD E: For what {disfmarker} For Aurora ?Professor C: Yeah .PhD E: Oh !Professor C: Yeah , so the uh {disfmarker}Uh , the issue is whether people make a decision now based on what they 've already seen , or they make it later . And one of the arguments for making it later is let 's make sure that whatever techniques that we 'reusing work for something more than {disfmarker} than connected digits .PhD E: Hmm .Professor C: So .PhD E: When are they planning {disfmarker} When would they do that ?Professor C: Mmm , I think late{disfmarker} uh I think in the summer sometime .PhD E: Hmm .Professor C: So . OK , thanks .PhD D: This is the work that I did during this dateProfessor C: Uh - huh .PhD D: and also mmm I {disfmarker} H Hyneklast week say that if I have time I can to begin to {disfmarker} to study well seriously the France Telecom proposalProfessor C: Mm - hmm .PhD D: to look at the code and something like that to know exactly what theyare doing because maybe that we can have some ideasProfessor C: Mm - hmm .PhD D: but not only to read the proposal . Look insi look i carefully what they are doing with the program @ @ and I begin to{disfmarker} to work also in that . But the first thing that I don't understand is that they are using R - the uh log energy that this quite {disfmarker} I don't know why they have some constant in the expression of thelower energy . I don't know what that means .PhD E: They have a constant in there , you said ?PhD D: Yeah .Professor C: Oh , at the front it says uh " log energy is equal to the rounded version of sixteen over the logof two "PhD D: This {disfmarker} Yeah .Professor C: Uh . uh times the {disfmarker}PhD D: Then maybe I can understand .Professor C: Well , this is natural log , and maybe it has something to do with the fact that thisis {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I have no idea .PhD E: Is that some kind of base conversion , or {disfmarker} ?Professor C: Yeah , that 's what I was thinking , but {disfmarker} but um , then there 's the sixty - four ,Uh , {vocalsound} I don't know .PhD D: Because maybe they 're {disfmarker} the threshold that they are using on the basis of this value {disfmarker}PhD E: Experimental results .Grad A: Mc - McDonald 's constant.PhD D: I don't know exactly , because well th I thought maybe they have a meaning . But I don't know what is the meaning of take exactly this value .Professor C: Yeah , it 's pretty funny looking .PhD E: So they 'retaking the number inside the log and raising it to sixteen over log base two .Professor C: I don't know . Yeah , I {disfmarker} um Right . Sixteen over {comment} two .PhD E: Does it have to do with those sixty - fours ,or {disfmarker} ?Professor C: Um . If we ignore the sixteen , the natural log of t one over the natural log of two times the natu I don't know . Well , maybe somebody 'll think of something ,PhD E: Professor C: but thisis uh {disfmarker} It may just be that they {disfmarker} they want to have {disfmarker} for very small energies , they want to have some kind of a {disfmarker}PhD D: Yeah , the e The effect I don't {disfmarker} @@ I can understand the effect of this , no ? because it 's to {disfmarker} to do something like that .Professor C: Well , it says , since you 're taking a natural log , it says that when {disfmarker} when you get down toessentially zero energy , this is gonna be the natural log of one , which is zero .PhD D: No ? Mm - hmm .Professor C: So it 'll go down to uh to {nonvocalsound} the natural log being {disfmarker} So the lowest value forthis would be zero . So y you 're restricted to being positive . And this sort of smooths it for very small energies . Uh , why they chose sixty - four and something else , that was probably just experimental . And the{disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the constant in front of it , I have no idea .PhD D: Yeah .Professor C: umPhD D: Well . I {disfmarker} I will look to try if I move this parameter in their code what happens , maybeeverything is {disfmarker} Maybe they tres hole are on basis of this .Professor C: uh {disfmarker} I mean {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} {vocalsound} they {disfmarker} they probably have some fi particular s fixedpoint arithmetic that they 're using ,PhD D: I don't know .Professor C: and then it just {disfmarker}PhD E: Yeah , I was just gonna say maybe it has something to do with hardware ,Professor C: Yeah .PhD E: somethingthey were doing .Professor C: Yeah , I mean that {disfmarker} they 're s probably working with fixed point or integer or something . I think you 're supposed to on this stuff anyway , and {disfmarker} and so maybethat puts it in the right realm somewhere .PhD E: Well it just , yeah , puts it in the right range , or {disfmarker}Professor C: Yeah . I think , given at the level you 're doing things in floating point on the computer , Idon't think it matters , would be my guess ,PhD D: Mm - hmm .Professor C: but .PhD D: I {disfmarker} this more or less anythingProfessor C: Yeah . OK , and wh when did Stephane take off ? He took off{disfmarker}PhD D: I think that Stephane will arrive today or tomorrow .Professor C: Oh , he was gone these first few days , and then he 's here for a couple days before he goes to Salt Lake City .PhD D: Mm - hmm.Professor C: OK .PhD D: He 's {disfmarker} I think that he is in Las Vegas or something like that .Professor C: Yeah . Yeah . So he 's {disfmarker} he 's going to ICASSP which is good . I {disfmarker} I don't know ifthere are many people who are going to ICASSPPhD D: Yeah .Professor C: so {disfmarker} so I thought , make sure somebody go .PhD D: Yeah .PhD E: Do {disfmarker} have {disfmarker} Have people sort of stoppedgoing to ICASSP in recent years ?Professor C: Um , people are less consistent about going to ICASSP and I think it 's still {disfmarker} it 's still a reasonable forum for students to {disfmarker} to present things . Uh , it's {disfmarker} I think for engineering students of any kind , I think it 's {disfmarker} it 's if you haven't been there much , it 's good to go to , uh to get a feel for things , a range of things , not just speech . Uh . But Ithink for {disfmarker} for sort of dyed - in - the - wool speech people , um I think that ICSLP and Eurospeech are much more targeted .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor C: Uh . And then there 's these other meetings , likeHLT and {disfmarker} and uh ASRU {disfmarker}PhD E: Professor C: so there 's {disfmarker} there 's actually plenty of meetings that are really relevant to {disfmarker} to uh computational uh speech processing ofone sort or another .PhD E: Mm - hmm . Professor C: Um . So . I mean , I mostly just ignored it because I was too busy and {vocalsound} didn't get to it . So uh Wanna talk a little bit about what we were talking aboutthis morning ?Grad A: Oh ! um {pause} uh {pause} Yeah .Professor C: Just briefly , or {pause} Or anything else ?Grad A: So . I {disfmarker} I guess some of the progress , I {disfmarker} I 've been getting a{disfmarker} getting my committee members for the quals . And um so far I have Morgan and Hynek , {vocalsound} Mike Jordan , and I asked John Ohala and he agreed . Yeah . Yeah .PhD E: Cool .Grad A: So I 'm{disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I just need to ask um Malek . One more . Um . Tsk . Then uh I talked a little bit about {vocalsound} um continuing with these dynamic ev um acoustic events , and um {vocalsound}{vocalsound} we 're {disfmarker} we 're {disfmarker} we 're {vocalsound} thinking about a way to test the completeness of a {disfmarker} a set of um dynamic uh events . Uh , completeness in the {disfmarker} in