{"doc_id":"doc_0","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Can I close this ?User Interface: Uh we don't have any changes , do we ?Project Manager: Oh , okay .User Interface: So no . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} There we go . Okay , here weare again . Detailed design {disfmarker} oh , come on . Well {disfmarker} Ah {gap} s Forgot to insert the minutes , but it's about the same thing we discussed before . Uh {disfmarker} Could open that anyway , think .Other design {disfmarker} anyway , we took as {disfmarker} we took w we took rubber as as the material last time . We also {gap} that you're just busy with it . Took the advanced chip to t uh implement theadvanced features . Well , we discussed the design , no sharp corners , we rounded it off , like you see on the {gap} other screen , which is fine . Um {gap} we agreed that the colour should be b uh yellow and black .Yellow in the back because it's m trendy , more trendy than black anyway . So {vocalsound} then we ca yeah . We agreed that we would implement both the L_C_D_ and speech recognition , but I'll get to that in amoment . 'Cause some changes in the finances have left us implications anyway . So so , like I said , we had no insight in finances , no prices ,Marketing: Hmm .Project Manager: but we have 'em now , and it's bad .Anyway . We are Oh . Prototype presentation , well first you guys built the prototype . So {vocalsound} you could {gap} {disfmarker} could present that . But um let's see what be handy to do . Nee {disfmarker} no ,you just go ahead and present the {disfmarker} w we'll scrap it later because {disfmarker} {gap} What ?Industrial Designer: I think it's more or less the same as we had .User Interface: It's basically what we agreedupon ,Marketing: Hmm ?Project Manager: Oh that'sUser Interface: but just a little bit more specified .Industrial Designer: No much sProject Manager: hasn't changed that much , huh ?Industrial Designer: No no no ,not at all .Project Manager: I didn't expect anyway {gap} . You just coloured it . {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh s Final design . {vocalsound} Basically in {gap} {disfmarker} what we discussed , cover and buttons willbe made of rubber , yellow colour , black components , as you can see right over here .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . I like the menu .User Interface: We chose a different type of colour for the menu . A bit darker yellowso that it com really shows in this keypad .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: If you put them all black , it's not really that good a contrast .Project Manager: And I suppose the the the yellow is not printed onthe on the rubber . It's it's part of the rubber , I suppose .User Interface: So {disfmarker} ProbabProject Manager: I think that's more I think that's more durable anyway than printed on to {disfmarker}User Interface:Yeah . That's the beIndustrial Designer: Hmm .User Interface: And it {disfmarker} I guess it's more easier to just paint it on the rubberIndustrial Designer: Yeah , of course .User Interface: than to uh{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: That's uh the integration story again .Marketing: Mm yeah . Okay .User Interface: So we have it's a bit round shaped ,Project Manager: {vocalsound} Oh yeah .User Interface: that'swhat we had uh {disfmarker} We chose the buttons to be uh teletext , okay button , favourite channel and the mute .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: So that's basically what we chose there .ProjectManager: Okay .User Interface: If you have anything to add , please interrupt me .Industrial Designer: No , uh this is just a description of what we see there .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: So{disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} Oh .Industrial Designer: Speaks for itself .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: That's pretty much it .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay . Now it's my time to ruin everything .Well , not ruin everything , but {disfmarker} no , nah .User Interface: Oh sorry . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Finances , that's what we have here , what you drew . We have battery power , we have advanced chipsand the sam the sensor . The sample sensor and uh {disfmarker} for speak recognition anyway . So which {disfmarker} you see the {disfmarker} which is de o one of the most expensive parts . So {disfmarker} well ,we have sin one curve , {vocalsound} a design . Rubber design . And we had a special colour . Suppose yellow is a special colour . So just half a Euro for {gap} {disfmarker} You have pushbuttons and an L_C_D_display . You have the total of seventeen Euros in production cost ,Industrial Designer: Hmm .Project Manager: which is higher than the twelve and a half that we are permitted to use . So ,Marketing: Hmm .ProjectManager: easy . What do we scrap . Well think I had the best solution that I came up with is just to s take out the speech recognition .Industrial Designer: I dUser Interface: I'd say that too .Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: Because the L_C_D_ has more support on customer side .Industrial Designer: Hmm .Project Manager: There are ninety one percent of uh the people , or something like that . But ninety percent whofavour an L_C_D_ display , and only sixty percent that favour speech recognition . I think it's also harder to {disfmarker}User Interface: Uh we don't really have a extra function with the speech sample ,Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: which you can't do with a normal remote control ,Industrial Designer: Hmm .Project Manager: {gap} . So I juUser Interface: which people already do . So {disfmarker}Project Manager: I took that out .So {disfmarker} and so it's still stuck with thirteen , so I had to take out the special colour I suppose . And , yeah , I didn't see anything else I could take out . Yeah , I could take out the push-buttons ,Marketing:PushbutProject Manager: but we need those . So , generally what I came up with , in order to be cou to to have production cost of twelve and a half Euros , spe scrap speech recognitionIndustrial Designer: Huh .{vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: Special colour , yeah .Project Manager: and the separate covers can account for the {disfmarker} if people want it , we'll just {disfmarker} then we'll do it in black . We'll justdeliver it in black , have the {disfmarker} it has all the function that it's supposed to have , and if you want it {disfmarker} if you want the custom design , then you can buy the separate covers .User Interface: Well,Project Manager: You make it d orange or whatever you want .User Interface: I'd {disfmarker} I tend to disagree with you on that , because the trend issue was a big issue when we started designing this .ProjectManager: It was a big issue , but {disfmarker}User Interface: So can't we just basically extend it to thirteen ?Project Manager: I'll just go back . Uh let's just {disfmarker} let's see what {disfmarker} okay , let's justsee what we {disfmarker} no , we we have to be under twelve and a half .Marketing: Yeah , it {disfmarker}Project Manager: It {disfmarker} it's not {disfmarker}Marketing: The pProject Manager: uh the project is ano-go if we go over twelve and a half ,Industrial Designer: Okay , but there's another problem .Marketing: And the pProject Manager: so .User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: But there's another problem.Marketing: What {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: If we take another cover , for instance black , then we also need another button frame , 'cause black and black doesn't work obviously .Project Manager: I think you{disfmarker} that's what you were ass assigned to do really , to to see how b th both those work together .Industrial Designer: Huh . Huh . Yeah .Project Manager: So I think {disfmarker} yeah , it's {disfmarker} Ithink it's y one of the {disfmarker} it's a good way to um to help people uh to make {disfmarker} to keep the product trendy too .Industrial Designer: Hmm .Project Manager: Just keep {disfmarker} you just make newcovers for the {disfmarker} for it ,Industrial Designer: Hmm .Project Manager: like we agreed before .Industrial Designer: Right . I agree .Project Manager: And everything that's left is is the basic function that uh thatwe want our product to have . Because the expensive parts are in either the advanced chip . But we need that for the L_C_D_ display .User Interface: Yeah . We do .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager:Then again , we have the L_C_D_ display , which is also expensive . B yeah , but those go together . And yeah , we could take out the curve .Industrial Designer: Or say let's lose rubber , take plastic .User Interface:We could take out a curve indeed .Project Manager: Could {disfmarker} we could take out the curve . Is that an option ?Industrial Designer: Yes .Marketing: {gap} .Project Manager: For you ?Industrial Designer:Although we are demolishing a little bit the style .Marketing: But uh the {disfmarker} and {disfmarker}User Interface: I think the colour is more important than the really the curve ,Project Manager: Yeah .IndustrialDesigner: But {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: because if you just end up with an entirely black remote control {disfmarker}Project Manager: I think it's {disfmarker} it it does ruin it,Marketing: Yeah . The people {disfmarker}Project Manager: but the fact that I t took that decision or tIndustrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Took this example actually , not really decision , but the example isbecause we do offer the um {vocalsound} the possibility of adding your own custom covers . So you can change {gap} any colour you want . So it's just you deliver a basic remote control with a possibility to changeyou into whatever you want .Industrial Designer: Can we then not also uh change the material ? We take plastic for the basic coverProject Manager: You can take plastic ,Industrial Designer: and {disfmarker}ProjectManager: but I d it's something that's stuck into my mind is that {disfmarker} something that really came forward from the marketing research is that people like the the the the squishy feeling of {disfmarker} thespongy feeling of the {disfmarker}Marketing: Spongy , yeah .Industrial Designer: We can put those to the to the other covers .Project Manager: and it really makes it {disfmarker} also makes it different from theexisting remote controls ,Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: because they're all plastic .Marketing: And {disfmarker}Project Manager: So which in in turn {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: That's true.Project Manager: Rubber would increase durabilityIndustrial Designer: But {disfmarker}Project Manager: because it doesn't break .Industrial Designer: okay . But what do you then suggest we'd lose ? Because wehave to lose two things and {disfmarker} I guess .Project Manager: I al like I said , I lost the speech recognition and I lost the special colour ,Marketing: But {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yes .ProjectManager: which would make this black a black and grey .Industrial Designer: Okay , and that's enough ?Project Manager: Yeah , that's that that that's enough , becauseUser Interface: So black and grey is okay .ProjectManager: I guess those are the basic colours .Marketing: But {disfmarker}Project Manager: So {disfmarker} Oh .User Interface: {vocalsound} Which we can fabricate ,Industrial Designer: Hmm .Project Manager: Ithink those are basic col They want to {disfmarker}User Interface: okay .Marketing: The people want to pay for for it , so why why uh {vocalsound} do we have to keep us uh uh um on the twelve and a half ?ProjectManager: To ensure the profit . That {disfmarker} that's th that's the order . We're just uh {disfmarker} we're the project team and we got our our orders from the pro from the boss of our companyMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: which say we don't wanna spend more than twelve fifty for this .Marketing: But we can take a risk .Project Manager: But that's not for our {disfmarker} that's not our decision to take . We have abudget of twelve fifty per product .User Interface: No , we basically {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay , yeah .Industrial Designer: Hmm .Project Manager: So {disfmarker}User Interface: We need to stick to that .ProjectManager: Stick that . I don't think it's really bad either . I mean if we we have the the backup of {disfmarker} or the backup design thingMarketing: I hope the people will like it ,Project Manager: to have{disfmarker}Marketing: but {disfmarker}Project Manager: I think they would do . Th I think they do like because yo we {disfmarker} you {disfmarker} we agree upon that the that the the the cover thing was a niceidea ,Marketing: {gap} {disfmarker}Project Manager: because p you could have all sort of designs while at the same time just manufacturing one product , one basic product which you could turn into any any taste youwant .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: So I think it's the best solution to make those cu custom covers for the design aspectIndustrial Designer: Perhaps we should make mMarketing: Yeah . {vocalsound}ProjectManager: and keep the functionality between {disfmarker} of {disfmarker} within the th the boundaries of the your f uh your budget .Industrial Designer: Huh .Marketing: The first sheet .Project Manager: So{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Perhaps we should make clear to our customer that we had to do this to stay under the cost . And that's {disfmarker} uh they know that this is an option and that we had to drop theoption to stay under the cost , that they know that .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Well I don't think {disfmarker} Yeah . Is it worth {disfmarker} is it is it {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Perhaps they decide thaUserInterface: But they don't {disfmarker}Project Manager: does it mean anything to the customer ? Like , it {disfmarker} like , we don't care {disfmarker} we don't care that you had to {disfmarker}Industrial Designer:Of course . Perhaps {gap} they uh {disfmarker} no , but perhaps they think uh okay , the cover is such a nice idea , uh let's {disfmarker} that that then they uh that allow us to make some more costs .ProjectManager: True ,Industrial Designer: We ca we uh we can at least tell them that {disfmarker}Project Manager: but we did we didn't get that . So I think it's {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: You don't know that .ProjectManager: it should either be a pack , maybe we sh that should be sold in in the s in stores with with a standard cover or something .User Interface: Well {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Huh .Project Manager: But{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: No , I'm not uh talking about that cost {gap} but the one that g has given us the order to design this . We could at least m uh make it like this , like you said ,Project Manager: Theycould , but uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: and then tell them okay , we had to drop this and that , just that you know . It is an {disfmarker} still an option , but {vocalsound} not for this price .Project Manager:It's an option , but {disfmarker} yeah , it's true . So actually uh it's not that much of an increase , but yeah . We cannot contact them .User Interface: And if we {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's just the order that wegot .Industrial Designer: Exactly ,Project Manager: So that's what we gotta go with .Industrial Designer: but {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: So it's either one fi just just to get it f just to get it throughfinal , it's either {vocalsound} turned into plastic , drop the squishy feel , make it make it more breakable ,Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Hmm .Project Manager: um or turn it yellow . So {disfmarker}{vocalsound} It's uh something we have to decide on .Industrial Designer: I'd say lose the curve and the colourProject Manager: I say lose the curve . Oh that's true ,Industrial Designer: and {disfmarker}ProjectManager: we could lose the c I forgot that , yeah , sorry . Uh the curve . So {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: So which curve is that baProject Manager: That's just this one just d this is the banana curve .UserInterface: that's basically that curve .Industrial Designer: Hmm .Project Manager: So this would this would be straight .User Interface: So we could u still have the comfort .Marketing: Yeah , that's better .ProjectManager: No , uh {disfmarker} no , that would be a curve inside the thing , I guess . No , would ju then it would just be a straight remote . Just like {vocalsound} like that .Industrial Designer: Hmm .Project Manager:Which would , yeah , turn it into something far more ordinary . {gap} we could make it yellow then ,User Interface: I second that .Project Manager: but {disfmarker} You second that , you second that we lose the curve.User Interface: {vocalsound} No , that it would turn out to be a pretty straight-forward remote control .Project Manager: Okay , yeah .User Interface: So that's not really that {gap} {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah .Yeah .Project Manager: So I think it would be a good idea to keep the curve {vocalsound} to separate it from the rest of the remote control world , so to speak .Industrial Designer: Hmm .Project Manager: So we keepthe curve . So the only only solution is either to use the l y lose the yellow or lose the rubber .User Interface: I would {disfmarker}Project Manager: And I'm in favour of keeping the rubber , because it has more moreadvantages than the colour yellow has .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Oh . I agree .User Interface: Yeah . I would say {disfmarker} I would agree with you on the colour ,Industrial Designer: No .Marketing: Yep.User Interface: because that's an extra option , an extra service we can deliver for a little bit of more money .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Yeah , umUser Interface: So we can always do that .Project Manager: I guesspeople are willing to pay for that . So I think we can take that option and just {disfmarker} with uh with the idea in the back of our head that you can customise your remote control .Industrial Designer: Hmm?Marketing: Yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: So I think that would still make it a nice product .Industrial Designer: Yes .Project Manager: Okay , we're final on that . So {vocalsound} it's too bad we can't make thewhole super thing . But anyways we're here . Um yeah .User Interface: Which is basically what we discussed .Project Manager: This we discussed just now . That's just now {disfmarker} just {disfmarker} we could justdiscuss how the project went . I mean , was kind of {disfmarker}Marketing: And I want to do that .Project Manager: I sort of expected that everything would turn out this way , but because you {disfmarker} yeah ,everything cannot be for free . We didn't {disfmarker} I think it was too bad we didn't have the financial info the last time . Because that was {disfmarker} I thUser Interface: Yes ,Industrial Designer: Huh .ProjectManager: it was really essential reallyUser Interface: we could have {disfmarker}Project Manager: to ma because we spent uh uh entire stage designing a product of which we had no idea what it would cost .IndustrialDesigner: Hmm .Project Manager: So we just put something {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: I think it's really nor not in stroke with reality actually .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Me too , I felt a bit blind throughout the project ,Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah .Industrial Designer: because in the beginning I had no list of available materials ,ProjectManager: Yeah , I think {gap} {disfmarker} would have been .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Materials would be okIndustrial Designer: and then I d had not list of available c finances .Marketing: But{disfmarker}Project Manager: at least the last meeting I would have expected had to have that .Industrial Designer: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: So I suppose {disfmarker}Marketing: Let's um {vocalsound} see{gap} um {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah , let's see if it sells . I mean I suppose this sells , because it's very {disfmarker} {vocalsound} very extended .Marketing: Um {disfmarker}Project Manager: But{disfmarker}User Interface: Well I hope it sells . {vocalsound}Marketing: Let's {disfmarker} Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: I suppose it sells ,Industrial Designer: Hmm .Project Manager: because it's good.Marketing: Oh .Project Manager: I mean it's got everything for the for the reasonable price , because we didn't know what it's gonna cost anyway .Industrial Designer: Hmm .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing:Hmm . Okay , let's eval evaluate uh the product of us , our design . Um I have some {disfmarker} {vocalsound} uh a method , a requirements and scale of . I uh will pre present uh some statements and we will decidedtogether wha what {disfmarker} if it's true or falseProject Manager: Okay .Marketing: and uh then we see uh if the requirements of the user are fulfilled or not .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Have been met , okay.Marketing: And I will uh make a new blank sheetProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah .Marketing: So so the buttons , the look and feel . I thought it was okay , but the advanced uh settings , um screen , audio and"}
{"doc_id":"doc_1","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Is that alright now ? {vocalsound} Okay . Sorry ? Okay , everybody all set to start the meeting ? Okay , we've got half an hour for this one um to uh discuss the um functional design .Marketing: Couldyou plug me in ?User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay . Thanks .Project Manager: All ready to go ? Okay .Marketing: Okay . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um so hopefully you've all beenworking away , and I've put the minutes of the last meeting in the project folder . Um so I guess just to to recap on uh what we did last time . Um kind of uh got to know each other a little bit and uh got familiar with allthe equipment and started to discuss um a bit about the project , you know , cost-wise how much how much money we had to s Um just want to tell you that you have three new requirements , which is the{disfmarker} The first one {vocalsound} is that um uh the company's decided that teletext is outdated uh because of how popular the internet is . Nobody uses teletext very much anymore , so we don't really need toconsider that in the functionality of the {disfmarker} of the remote control .Marketing: 'Kay .Project Manager: Um they've also suggested that we um we only use the remote control to control the television , not theV_C_R_ , D_V_D_ or anything else . I think the worry is that if the project becomes too complex then it'll affect um how long it takes us to get it into into production , the time to market . So um , we're just gonna keepit simple and it'll just control the T_V_ .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: And the other thing was that the company want the corporate colour and slogan to be implemented in the new design . Um I'm not entirelysure what the corporate colour is . It might be yellow , because there seems to be a lot of yellow everywhere .Marketing: And the slogan , like the actual written slogan , or just to embody the idea of the slogan ?ProjectManager: Well that's the thing , I'm I'm not sure um {vocalsound} uh th because on the the company website , uh what does it say {disfmarker} Uh something {disfmarker}Marketing: 'Bout putting the fashion inelectronics .Industrial Designer: Mm yeah .Project Manager: Yeah , I mean do they {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Is that something they want actually written on it , 'cause it's quite long . Um or yeah , just the idea , butI'm not sure . So that's something we can discuss as well . So those are the three things , just not to worry about teletext , uh only control the T_V_ , and um and uh incorporate the uh colour and slogan of the company. Um so is everybody okay with any of that , or do you want me to recap at all ?Industrial Designer: Nope , we're all set .Project Manager: Right um , time for presentations then . Who would like to go first ?UserInterface: {vocalsound} I'll go first .Project Manager: Okay , cool .Marketing: Sure .User Interface: Alright um , can I st steal this from the back of your laptop ? Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Oh yeah , of course ,yeah . G go on ahead .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {gap} so this is the technical functions design . Um {vocalsound} {disfmarker} Right {gap} to do the um {vocalsound} the design I have I've had a lookonline , I've had a look at the homepage , which has given us um some insp inspiration from previous products .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Um I've had a look at the previous products to see what theyoffer and um I would like to ask you guys for um {vocalsound} your ideas about the design at the end of the meeting . Um unfortunately we're not allowed to talk outside the meeting room , so {disfmarker}ProjectManager: {vocalsound} Okay .Marketing: Right .User Interface: Um , having a look at the existing products , I found out that um it tends to come in sort of two extremes , there's either um a very complicated onethat's got lots of buttons , lots of colours , very confusing , you don't know what you're doing . {vocalsound} Um in that case the the labelling tends to be very bad . Um there's an example I'll show you at the end , um{gap} sh show you now . Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Alright {gap} .User Interface: {gap} here um the button there and there . This one's prog . Sorry . That one's perg and thatone's prog , and it doesn't really tell you what it does . Um , not sure if you had a a look at the other um control in that example . Um it's a very simple one . It's got only the basic functions mm but um {vocalsound} it'sthe same size as the the hard to use one .Project Manager: Oop .User Interface: {vocalsound} Uh it looked a bit clunky . They're very big and not very much use for {gap} buttons . {vocalsound} Um , {vocalsound}and it's just very hard to access the advanced functions . There's there's nothing for instance for a slow motion button . Um , my own preferences , I prefer the the clunky one . Um it's very easy to use . Um butunfortunately it does lack the advanced functions which I I quite like having on the controls . {vocalsound} Um so I believe the the advanced functions should maybe be hidden in a drawer , or something like tha {gap}from the bottom of it . So , {vocalsound} now I'd like to ask for your preferences . Um not sure of how long we've got , uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Um . Well we can chat away for uh for five minutes or so I thinkat at most .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Just a couple of minutes anyway .Marketing: M yeah , like a lot of a lot of what I've um read and prepared for this meeting fits in really closely with what with whatCraig's just gone over . So in part I could I could give you some of my personal preferences but I could also th add some to this which is just about sort of um sort of market research .Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: But anyway ,Project Manager: Shall we sh well we'll stick to kind of your area for now .Marketing: um we might come to that later .Industrial Designer: Which which is the clunky one , the one on left or onthe right?. .User Interface: {vocalsound} Um , the clunky one is the one on the right .Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Um clunky in what sense , like um h heavier ? Larger ?User Interface:Um I think it's supposed to be the same size , but um it's got much fewer buttons . It's , you know , it's very spread outMarketing: I see , so it's more just basic .Project Manager: Looks kind of {disfmarker} Yeah .UserInterface: and kind of {disfmarker} you knowMarketing: Right , okay .User Interface: , I get the idea it'd be sort of about this size . {vocalsound} {gap} got very few buttons on it and {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah . Sure .Project Manager: Well I think it's a valid point . I mean like the one on the left looks quite um quite complicated , and that P_R_T_ p P_R_O_T_ thing isincredibly confusing . Um so I see I see why yo you know you might prefer the simpler design , but yeah you don't want to lose out on , you know , what it does , so maybe you knowMarketing: Mm-hmm .ProjectManager: you know you get a lot of remote controls where you kind of flip the thing open ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I think that's a good idea .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: I thinkit's a good idea . {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Um , {vocalsound} do we have any functions that um we'd want on it ?Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: I mean so far I've got um on and off ,um switch the channel up and down , and put the volume up and down .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Uh-huh .User Interface: Um they're just the the very basics you could use for a T_V_ .Project Manager: Uh-huh ,and then actual numbers for channels as well , yeah .User Interface: Okay . Um , you say that's a h a required one or a requested one ? Would you likeMarketing: Which was that ?User Interface: um the channels likethe the numbers on thing , um {disfmarker}Marketing: Up {disfmarker} the numbers , or the up down ?Project Manager: God , I wou I would say that's required ,Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I meanthere's no way anybody's gonna buy a remote control these days when if you can't actually individually select channels ,Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: I mean would anybody disagree with that ?Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Um , what else , uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} So don't need to worry about teletext ,Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: don't need to worry about V_C_R_ , uh any kind of like displaycontrols at all do you think we need to worry about ,Marketing: We don't ? No ?Project Manager: you know like brightness and contrast ?Marketing: Yeah . Well I think I think es essentially what we're doing right now iswe're categorising . We're saying well we want this to be a product that offers all the sort of more tricky features but we want them to be in another area ?Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: Is that right ?ProjectManager: Yeah .Marketing: Is that what we're we're doing ?User Interface: Um , yeah .Marketing: We're kind of like sorting them an Or are we actually eliminating things we just don't want the product to have ?UserInterface: Um {disfmarker}Project Manager: I think {disfmarker} are you are you maybe kind of thinking what we absolutely have to have and what would be nice ?User Interface: Uh , to start with um sort of a bitboth , um we need to find out exactly what we have to haveProject Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: um and after that we can add things if they're possible .Project Manager: Okay , right . Well , do you wannamaybe just , at this point decide on what we absolutely must have as a p as a function of this .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Um , so so far , just to recap you've got volume and channel control and{disfmarker}Marketing: Yep .User Interface: There's um on and off , um volume and channel , and skip to certain channels with the numbers .Project Manager: Right okay . Um {disfmarker}Marketing: Well , one oneway I would look at this um would be that we a approach the different controls in terms of um like control types , so that for the user it's very clear what they want to do where they go .Project Manager: Mm-hmm yeah.Marketing: Uh and also think maybe a little bit about sorta w w what would just wanna be acc easily accessible .Project Manager: OkaMarketing: For example if we had audio controls , those could be something peopleset up very rarely . Maybe they're un they're they're they're in a little area but covered up um ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: things like channel and volume um are used all the time , so we just have themright out on top , um very just very sort of self-explanatory . Um so maybe we need to think about having three or more groupings of controls , you know like one which are just the the habitual ones that should be rightwithin your natural grip . And others that are uh also availableIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: and then others that are concealed .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Something like that .Project Manager:Uh well , just to to wrap up quickly on this this little section {disfmarker} Have I just lost {disfmarker} Oh no . Um , uh do you think maybe that's the only kind of uh essential requirements , and then maybe just thingsthat would be nice if it could do would be things like audio set up and display set up and things like that , maybe like a mute button , that sort of thing . Any of {disfmarker} you anything to add to that at all ?Marketing:Yeah .Industrial Designer: No .Project Manager: No .Industrial Designer: I'll add it later , I guess {gap} the presentation .Project Manager: Okay , right .Marketing: Mm-hmm . Yeah .Project Manager: Um okay,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: if we can move on to next presentation then please . UmMarketing: Sure .Project Manager: Do you wanna {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} Do you want toswitch places ?Marketing: Can this can this pl reach ? Can this plug come across ?Industrial Designer: No . No .Project Manager: Probably not , actually .Marketing: No .Project Manager: {gap}Marketing: So why don't Ijust pick up and move then .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Here , I'll just {vocalsound} Why don't I just {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: Just just switch them .Marketing: Mm er , can you go up behindme ? Kinda {disfmarker} This is so {disfmarker} This {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} {gap} bit complicated . It'd be nice if everything was wireless , wouldn't it ?Marketing: I'm all in a knot now .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Right .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Um . So I can I can say already , I dunno whether this is for good or for bad but there'll be a lot of kind ofuh redundancy in the in the the issues and the the uh {vocalsound} the things .Project Manager: Oh , like overlap between what you said ?Marketing: Yeah , yeah .Project Manager: Oh well , for all you know that{disfmarker} that'll happen .Marketing: Which is ma not necessarily a bad thing , but may what I've already started doing is cr I created a slide in in my presentation here so um so that we kind of think well what's thecumulative effect of what we've taken from your ideas and and mine , because certainly I I have a hard time separating separating things completely .Project Manager: Mm hard to know what {disfmarker} where yourrole ends , yeah .Marketing: Obviously obviously what you've just told me what you've just told me impacts a lot on what um like market research mm that that I've been {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: So how do I how do I get this up ?Industrial Designer: Um function F_ eight .Project Manager: Uh pr yeah , press function and F_ eight , yeah .Marketing: Okay . Okay . Alright . So {disfmarker} F_ eight?Industrial Designer: Function , the blue button . Next to the control on the left . Yeah .Marketing: Oh , and F_ eight . Okay .Industrial Designer: You have to push it together .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Yep .Marketing: Okay , I think that that's doing it now .Industrial Designer: Nope . Try that again .Marketing: Uh , again ?Industrial Designer: Wait .User Interface: Think maybe the the wire in theback might be loose .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Yeah , you wanna {disfmarker} Oh oh here we go .Marketing: Um ,Industrial Designer: Yep , there we go .Project Manager: There you go .Marketing:{vocalsound} okay great . Okay . Just um {disfmarker} Before I bring this up what I'll just say is um what I've what I've done is tried to collect some information so that I can then relay this to to you guys so that it's{disfmarker} now becomes a collective thing . And then kind of lead us in the direction of deciding , 'kay what what are our options , what should we decide and do you know what I mean , so .Industrial Designer:{gap} Increase that 'cause we can't see the {disfmarker}Project Manager: Um {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: That's much better .Project Manager: Right . Can you um{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: There you go .Project Manager: Right , okay .Marketing: Okay . Alright . That would be {disfmarker} Okay . So um does that make sense ? So what I basically got is I just looked intosome information and sort of th tried to think about how how we could review it and how we could {disfmarker} and what kind of decisions we could take away from it and then maybe by the end of just looking at someof these things we can think about what are our priorities . 'Cause certainly there's lots of different information to go through . So um I'm thinking here about uh primarily about customer needs , that we start with thecustomer , and w you know , what they want and what are issues with with um existing products . Uh to think about trends and also about {disfmarker} try and connect that as you see with the company vision which isabout fashion in electronics . Um and then , as I say uh w we'd like to prioritise our design features from this and um {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Bouncing on top .{vocalsound}Marketing: Dunno . Okay . Um .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: So this is what I've found here , um a lot of this is new to me , so we'll just read through together . Um , users dislike the look and feel ofcurrent remote controls . So they find them ugly . Most people find them ugly . Um {vocalsound} the vast majority would spend more money for it to look fancy as well , we'll see later , the vast majority would spendmore money for um slightly more intuitive control , such as voice recognition .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Okay I'm gonna {disfmarker} we'll look at that in a second . Um most people use only a f a veryslim portion of all the controls . So I guess what we're looking at here is people want this h technology , they tend to use the most simple controls and overall they find remote controls to be something they don't{disfmarker} doesn't really appeal to them .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: So I think what we're doing is we're trying to take like {disfmarker} if for me this is sorta like three different different um inspirations, you know , one is that we want uh something that's high-tech but we want it to seem easy . And in spite of the primitive side of it and the very high-tech side , we want it to just be an appealing piece of equipment inpeople's hands . Um , {vocalsound} frustrations . They get lost a lot , s as it came up in our last meeting . Um , takes time to learn how to use them . This is uh why I mention when Craig was uh showing us some ideasthat we actually try and group controls , so d it doesn't just look like a big panel , kinda like when you you look at , you know , a new computer keyboard , or something that is quite explanatory . If you want audio , ifyou want visual , then you have those . Um and I will admit I don't know what R_S_I_ stands for .Project Manager: Repetitive strain injury .Industrial Designer: Is installing a new remote control something that people{disfmarker}Marketing: Uh , no , that did not come up at all . Um so here here is another um sort of a a review here of the main things . I also found that most people would uh adults at least would pay more for voicerecognition . Now apparently we do have access to all the tech cutting edge technology in remote control . So I dunno if that's possible we might consider getting into it . Um . {vocalsound} And and again here as wesort of move m sort of thin start thinking about how we wanna sell and market this , I think a recurring theme here is the company wants it to be {disfmarker} wants us to make something that's fashionable and sleekand trendy .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Um people {vocalsound} uh additionally aren't aren't liking the appearance of their products , so we wanna think about as we take all the sort of the techie featureshow we can um put that into a unit which is which people like .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: You know , they like the aesthetics and the ergonomics .Project Manager: So want something that looks good and iseasy to use , big priorities .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Yeah , so you know just c looking at what what Craig um Craig's i uh ideas are s sorta tell me that maybe what we wanna do is try andum separate the different things that we wanna include in this . So if we do say well we want there to be all the technology will we try and make that almost be like optional technology . You know , it's like like I find alot of T_V_s these days , something really like about 'em is if you wanna just turn 'em on and off you can , but they have little panels where you click and there's just like tons of features you go through .ProjectManager: Mm . So it {disfmarker} you wanna group all the different kind of types of functions together , you know .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: That's {disfmarker} I think it's a good idea.Marketing: Yeah . That's s that's sort of the um {disfmarker} But I {disfmarker} I'm {disfmarker} my hope here is that I'm putting out this information so that we can then say okay , well how do we collectively moveon with it .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Okay .Marketing: Um I I haven't brought out one specific marketing idea , although my sense is that what we should try and think about is what are the current trends inmaterials and shapes and styles , and then use that .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: But not let that confine us technologically .Project Manager: Okay . Right .Marketing: So Alright ? Any um comments on all ofthat ? {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Well , um one of the things that we have to decide on by the end of the meeting is who we're gonna be um {disfmarker} who's our our target audience , our targetmarket .Marketing: That's uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Um , so if we want something that that looks good and is easy to use , but has y is fairly powerful product , whatever , who do we really want to aim that at"}
{"doc_id":"doc_2","qid":"","text":"Marketing: Hello .Project Manager: {gap} . {gap} .Marketing: Yes , I made it . English from now on {vocalsound} . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {gap} . {vocalsound}Marketing: Drawing or{disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah just testing .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Mm ? English .Industrial Designer: Just kidding .Project Manager: {gap} .Industrial Designer: So annoying .Project Manager: Break isover .Marketing: Ooh it works .Project Manager: Whoo .Marketing: {vocalsound} Spicy .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Spicy .Marketing: Where are are all the other presentations ?Industrial Designer: I just put it inthe in the shared folder so it should be {disfmarker}Marketing: The conceptual or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: yeah I think so . Yeah , conceptual design . What or whatever does it {disfmarker}Marketing: Ah .Because I see only my own presentation {vocalsound} {gap}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: No no no , can you go back one ?Marketing: yeah .Industrial Designer: Uh 'cause it has to be PowerPointpre yeah components design , that's it .Marketing: This ? {gap} I'll just put it in there .Project Manager: So , he's coming .Industrial Designer: {gap} . {vocalsound} I did get a bit more done than the last time,Marketing: Or not .User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: Oh okay .Industrial Designer: 'cause I knew that I didn't have time so I just copy and paste everything into the {disfmarker}User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: Ah ,Project Manager: Ah . She {gap} .Marketing: I can't cut and paste it into the other folder but {disfmarker}Project Manager: You can look at the final report , 'cause I have to recordeverything we are deciding and such , so I'm trying to write it down between everything else .Marketing: Move to meeting room .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Sometimes I have these pop-ups or these sounds andthere's nothing there ,Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Oh .Industrial Designer: and also with {disfmarker} I don't know how to use PowerPoint , so it takes me forever to get something done with it .Marketing: Yeahme too , {gap} .User Interface: {vocalsound} I I've got the same problem as well . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Here we go again . Welcome . Uh we have again three presentations and then we have to decide on what concepts the mobile phone has to uh {disfmarker} f the remote control hasto support .Industrial Designer: ThiProject Manager: So who wants go .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Yes .Project Manager: Yes ?Industrial Designer: Who wants to start ?Marketing: Me first again or{disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah sure . Doesn't matter .User Interface: Oh . No . Yeah . No problemMarketing: yeah . Alright . Did you open it already or {disfmarker}Project Manager: No .Marketing: no . Ah . Ah .Yes . So welcome to the marketing presentation once again . Um this time about trendwatching . {vocalsound} Uh well there has been inv investigation again , in the in the remote control market . Uh it shows a numberof developments . Uh I will address them uh in a moment . Um fashion watch watchers uh have detected the trends for young public , because that's our public . Um well fruit and vegetables will be will be the mostimportant theme for clothing , uh shoes and furniture . And the feel of the material is expected to be spongey . So um the developments I will address them {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: ohyeah well this is the fruit and vegetables looks of fresh bright colours . So to give you an idea . Um well the developments ? Uh development one . {vocalsound} Uh well most important aspect for remote controlhappens to be a fancy look-and-feel . Instead of the current uh functional look-and-feel . Um well fancy stands for an original look-and-feel of the case and the interface . And the second most important aspect is that aremote control should be technological uh innovative . Um well it stands for the use of technical features that do not exist in current remote controls . I think we pretty much covered that with our screen and um andspeech recognition ,Industrial Designer: Sound . Yeah yeah uh uh .Marketing: so I don't expect that to be a problem . And the third development um is that the remote control should be easy to use . Um {disfmarker}Well the first aspect uh was twice as important as the second aspect,w which was twice as important as the third aspect .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: So um that kind of gets you this ratios . So fancylook-and-feel uh is the most important uh point of attention .Project Manager: {gap} .Marketing: Uh so the fruits and vegetables in combination with the spongey material . Um well technolog technological innovation ,we've covered that pretty much I guess . Um and easy to use , I don't think that will be problem . So my point of attention is especially this part .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: That this will be a crux . So thatwas the marketing uh presentation . I had only one document left .Industrial Designer: And shall I go first ?User Interface: Yeah . No . I I don't mi I don't mind .Industrial Designer: So I {disfmarker}User Interface:That's {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah yeah sure . No .Marketing: So kind of this {disfmarker}User Interface: Do you want to go first ? Okay .Industrial Designer: Yeah ?Marketing: {vocalsound} So ak a small example .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .Marketing: Kind of this this look .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Uh nothing about the buttons but just sponge kind of thing , and and some fruit andcoloursUser Interface: Yeah .Marketing: I dunno . {vocalsound} Just made a quick design .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Cool . {vocalsound} Yeah you're just the user interface hmm ?User Interface:It's better than than my uh drawing . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Alright .Marketing: Alright . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah okay but I have to design the {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Uh components.Project Manager: Yeah layout .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah okay .Industrial Designer: Oh no .Marketing: Yeah . It's okay .Project Manager: You probably opened it .Industrial Designer: Yeah true . Um{disfmarker}Project Manager: F_ five .Marketing: F_ five .Industrial Designer: Alright . So {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I'm dealing with the components design . Um let's see . I uh usedsome design examples we had uh from similar products . And I used uh possibilities from our manufacturing department about current components which will have to be implemented in the design . That's why I had to ,wanted to go first . Well they gave me um an idea about what people want . We're f mainly focusing on this group , but I want to make the distinction clear . Uh I could not drag the pictures into the the slides so s so Idon't have examples of how it looks like . But it comes down to what you uh what you think we should do with the spongey and the fruity looking uh type . If you , the young dynamic people want soft primary colours uh, which looks like fruits you know , you can {disfmarker} and shapes that are curved and not uh solid straight lines anymore . So this basically um yeah goes on to what you were mentioning earlier . There is a lot of um{vocalsound} factors involved in choosing the components .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: There's a lot of options that we have to discuss . Uh for example the energysource . we have four types . The basic battery . Uh we have a hand dynamo , which we yeah we Dutch refer to it as the kneipgatt .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Uh the kinetic provision of energy whichmeans if you move the thing , if you shake it .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Which will be fun for toddlers right , if they wanna use the {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: And uh of course solar cells . But I dunno how we would use that into the design of the actual product .Marketing: Wi an indoors .Industrial Designer: So uh my {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeahokay .Marketing: Oh .Project Manager: Calculator's can do it .Industrial Designer: yeah also also in you know countries where there's n isn't much light like in Scandinavia , they wouldn't be y able to use it half of theyear you know .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: So that's not cool either . So um {vocalsound} for the uh a case , there's uh thetraditional uncurved flat hard case . Single curved , which means that it has uh curves in one dimension . Or the double curved . Um {vocalsound} I wasn't able to finish my uh personal preferences sheet , but well youknow that we will have to go for the double curved 'cause it's daring and different from what we have now . Uh the case materials .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Well we have all kinds of hard uh materials likethe the hard plastic , the wood and the titanium . I would definitely go for rubber 'cause it fits most in what people wanna see nowadays .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Um poo , this is a lot of text . I wasn't ableto organise this yet . We have yeah several uh interface designs . Uh we can use a scroll buttons for the menus , but we already kind of decided to go for the f for the pushbuttons , for the the arrow buttons .UserInterface: Yeah . Pushbuttons . Yeah .Industrial Designer: So that's not really interesting .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Electronics ? Yeah , {vocalsound} maybe we wanna decide on what electronics to use{gap} the advanced chip I think is easiest to implement uh for the production , 'cause they they can print it better . Um {disfmarker} Yeah . I think this is about it . Yeah I was working on some per personal preferences. I first uh chose for the battery , 'cause yeah I'm traditional and that's the most obvious , easiest choice to go to . But I really think that we should maybe uh think about the kinetic energy ,User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: where you have to move the thing to be able to use it .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: As an optional uh feature .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: Or combine uh bothwith a with one uhProject Manager: Uh I think you can only fit one uh source of energy on the {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah maybe we {disfmarker}Marketing: I guess we can only choose one .User Interface:Okay .Industrial Designer: I can imagine that the kinetic uh type energy source would be more expensive to make . But it is more longlasting , that the people don't have to ever buy batteries again .Project Manager:YeahMarketing: Yeah . And it's more fun .Project Manager: I didn't receive any info uh .Industrial Designer: And it's also more fun yeah . I always chuck my uh remote control around , so {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah ,just playing with itProject Manager: Yeah .Marketing: and {disfmarker} especially when the material's rubber . It can be done , I mean , you can't harm it ,Project Manager: S yeah it's safe .User Interface:{vocalsound} And throw it {gap} .Industrial Designer: Yeah y exactly .Marketing: so it's a perfect combination I guess .Industrial Designer: You don't have to be scared about bouncing it off the g floor and breaking itor whatever .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: So that's the end of it .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: 'Kay next .IndustrialDesigner: Uh go ahead .Marketing: So double curved is like this , this , this , or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: No it means curved in two dimensions . So uh w single curved ? Uh let's say would be a b square box ,but then with curves on one dimension .Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: And double curved would means that it would have curves curves in every direction . Like three D_ . Yeah .Marketing: Yeah . Also in in height?Project Manager: Uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah okay .Project Manager: Okay . Can we uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah . One one uh very important thing I was uh yeah thinking about is the speech uh option .We were going to use that .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah . So um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Yeah um yeah that's one thing uh which I'm not sure uh of how to implement it uh into the remote control.Project Manager: Well the visual representation is not there with speechIndustrial Designer: Design ?User Interface: No okay but it has to be combined with with the menu uh for functions and {disfmarker}ProjectManager: but you can {disfmarker} Yeah . Just {disfmarker} yeah .User Interface: So okay .Project Manager: I think you can just uh match the speech commands with the functions that are already present .UserInterface: Yeah .Project Manager: So I don't think you have to design anything else for that .User Interface: Okay .Marketing: Yeah with the programme .User Interface: But do uh j do we uh do the speech just for thebasic options , for the simple buttons ?Project Manager: Both .User Interface: For for everything ,Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: also for the advanced options ? Okay . Uh we have this {gap} very uh basic uhtrendy design . Everybody says it so that's what's uh {disfmarker} yeah um {disfmarker} Yeah in the in the last uh meeting we uh we were yeah putting the the simple and the advanced options separated . That's yeahobvious . Um yeah . Pressing the the menu option uh will disable uh all other options on your uh remote control . And only the the L_C_D_ panel will uh light up and then you can only uh change the yeah the options.Marketing: And and the and the buttons that you need to control it , I guess .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah . Um yeah design has to be very attractive but that's your your op your {disfmarker} yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {gap} {vocalsound} you have to uh delete this but this is the the the simple uh layout .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Uh display on the upper side with the themenu button and maybe a some sort of cancel button or save button .Project Manager: That would be the back .User Interface: I'm {disfmarker} The back .Project Manager: Back and okay .Marketing: Yeah .UserInterface: Back and okay yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound} Back and okay .Project Manager: You did read the minutes I wrote ?User Interface: Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: You did read the minutes I wrote ?UserInterface: What ? A little bit I think but not not everything wIndustrial Designer: I {disfmarker}Project Manager: Oh okay 'cause I pretty much summed up all the buttons there were . So {disfmarker}User Interface:Okay . Oh {vocalsound} I uh didn't read that .Project Manager: I hate doing work for nothing . {vocalsound}User Interface: But {disfmarker} {vocalsound} But this is the the basic uh design uh for the for the m yeahfor the buttons .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Um {disfmarker} I wanted to to categorise everything . Uh with a speech display uh yeah , sound , everything you you noted in your uh minutes . Um everypushbutton has uh has its own uh LED light .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: So you can uh yeah change uh m make it more trendy for for younger people . And uh if there are older people they wantedmore uh yeah more uh luxurous {disfmarker} so that's an a also an option . Um that was it .Project Manager: {vocalsound} That was it ?User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: Okay . Uh {disfmarker}{gap} again . Ugh . {vocalsound} Okay so what we have to decide is what kind of components do we use ? Uh energy source , chip type , case type . And user interface . But I didn't see a clear distinction betweenthese so I think what we have is okay . So we only , we already decided that kinetic would be the choice for energy .Marketing: No .Project Manager: Uh the case would be doubly curved . So {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: And rubber . Rubber material .Marketing: Rubber material .Project Manager: Rubber material . And that's the only thing we have left .Industrial Designer: Yeah we need the the chip on print to be able tosupport the the screen and uh and f audio function .Project Manager: Oh okay . No it's easy . {vocalsound}Marketing: So that's uh {disfmarker} is that is that the advanced chip ? {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah. Yeah .Project Manager: Advanced chip . Okay .Industrial Designer: Otherwise you would have a simple chip , just for pressing buttons . But we need more .Marketing: Wow . Yeah . Alright .Industrial Designer: I'm justthinking , this is not my department , but I I'm not sure what this is gonna cost ,Marketing: Kinetic . Double curved .Project Manager: Too {gap} .Industrial Designer: to be able to mProject Manager: Uh I didn't get anyinfo on this . So {disfmarker}Marketing: {gap} .Industrial Designer: So 'cause we need to sell it for twenty five Euro a piece .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .Industrial Designer: That'sgonna be difficult huh ?Marketing: The cost of making it should be twelve and a half ?Project Manager: I have total here .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah I don't know.Industrial Designer: Yeah yeah yeah .Project Manager: I didn't get any information about that so {disfmarker}User Interface: {gap} . We're going to produce it in uh China so it's no problem .Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Child labour man , we love it .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah , so it's cheap .Project Manager: Who doesn't . Uh let's see . Is there a new thing?Marketing: Um well the interface type supplements .Project Manager: Yeah the interface , maybe can {disfmarker}User Interface: Uh it's it's quite difficult because we we haven't got all the options uh {disfmarker}yeah .Project Manager: Ooh . No . Uh do you have a picture of doubly curved case ? And could you put that in the group folder ? Of the project folder .Industrial Designer: Um let me see . Wait a sec .Marketing: If yougo to your homepage or something , you shouldIndustrial Designer: Yeah I'm going there now .Marketing: get your own information .Industrial Designer: Inspiration .Marketing: I got my fresh and fyoo fruity uh pictureuh also uh over there , so {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Ah you didn't draw it yourself .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Well {disfmarker}Marketing: No .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Ah .Marketing: {vocalsound} Too less time .Industrial Designer: Um {disfmarker} yeah maybe it's {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah , also the menu .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah that that wUser Interface: This isthe the menu I was uh looking uh at .Marketing: Yeah . Yeah I was thinking of that also , with with a with a uh arrow .Industrial Designer: Maybe it's easier {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Arrow.User Interface: Arrow yeah .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: So that indicates that there's an menu under that menu .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Yeah perfect .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: So{disfmarker}Project Manager: {gap} . 'S the target group .Industrial Designer: Maybe it's easier if you guys come over here .User Interface: S yeah .Project Manager: Yeah sure . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Ssee this is the the the standard traditional type , where the form uh yeah serves the function , you know .Marketing: Oh yeah .Industrial Designer: It's like really basic . But this m is more appealing to old people and wedon't want that .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: This is what we're looking for . And th that means curved in both dire dire uh dimensions .Project Manager: Oh okay . I see.Industrial Designer: Not only like this but it has to be {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah also like this . So you can hold it .Industrial Designer: exactly . It has to be kind of instead of the PlayStation , the module . Ithas to be like the the Game Cube , you know ,User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: where your thumbs would be laying in the instrument and it has to be nice to hold . And {disfmarker}User Interface: But it hasalso to {disfmarker} it it has also to be uh luxurous uh for for yeah rich people .Project Manager: {gap} .User Interface: Th this looks a little bit like like for only for children . So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: IthaProject Manager: The children's story . Yeah I've got it .Industrial Designer: Yeah but that's that's the the problem uh yeah the dilemma actually ,Project Manager: Distinction . Yeah .Industrial Designer: 'cause wewanna appeal to the to the young public with fancy with flashy colours , and with a lot of shape . And {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah , and the and the rubber , it it will look cheap always"}
{"doc_id":"doc_3","qid":"","text":"Grad H: stGrad F: So we 're on .Grad H: Yeah . That 's better .Grad F: And , {comment} somewhere is my agenda . I think the most important thing is Morgan wanted to talk about , uh , the ARPA {pause} demo.Professor D: Well , so , here 's the thing . Um , why don't we s again start off with {disfmarker} with , uh , Yeah , I 'll get it . I 'll get the door . Um , I think we want to start off with the agenda . And then , given that ,uh , Liz and Andreas are gonna be {pause} ten , fifteen minutes late , we can try to figure out what we can do most effectively without them here . So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} So {disfmarker} so , one thing is ,yeah , talk about demo ,Grad F: OK . So , uh {disfmarker} uh , IBM transcription status ,Professor D: IBM transcription . Uh , what else ?Grad F: Professor D:  What 's SmartKom ? SmartKom ?Grad F: Uh , we wannatalk about if w if we wanna add the data to the mar Meeting Recorder corpus .PhD E: The data . The data which we are collecting here .Professor D: What {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what are we collecting here?PhD E: Data ?Grad F: So why don't we have that on the agenda and we 'll {disfmarker} we 'll get to it and talk about it ?PhD E: The SmartKom data ?Professor D: Yeah , right .PhD E: Yeah .Professor D: Uh , right . Uh.Grad F: Uh , reorganization status .Professor D: Reorganization status .Postdoc A: Oh . Files and directories ?Professor D: Files and directories .Grad F: Yep . Uh - huh . Absinthe , which is the multiprocessor UNIX{disfmarker} Linux . I think it was {pause} Andreas wanted to talk about segmentation and recognition , and update on SRI recognition experiments .Professor D: Um {disfmarker}Grad F: And then if ti if there 's time Iwanted to talk about digits , but it looked like we were pretty full , so I can wait till next week .Professor D: Right . OK . Well , let 's see . I think the a certainly the segmentation and recognition we wanna maybe focuson when An - Andreas is here since that was particularly his thing .PhD E: And also the SmartKom thing should bProfessor D: SmartKom also , Andreas . Absinthe , I think also he has sort of been involved in a lot ofthose things .Grad F: At least ,Professor D: Yeah .Grad F: yeah , he 'll t he 'll probably be interested .Professor D: Yeah .Grad F: But .Professor D: Um So , I mean , I think they 'll be inter I 'll be interested in all this ,but {disfmarker} but , uh , probably , if we had to pick something {pause} that we would talk on for ten minutes or so while they 're coming here . Or I guess it would be , you think , reorganization status , or{disfmarker} ?Grad F: Yeah . I mean , I think , Chuck was the one who added out the agenda item . I don't really have anything to say other than that we still haven't done it .PhD B: Well , I mean , I uh {disfmarker}{vocalsound} just basically that {disfmarker}Grad F: So .PhD B: maybe I said {disfmarker} maybe we said this before {disfmarker} just that we met and we talked about it and we sort of have a plan for getting thingsorganized and {disfmarker}Postdoc A: And I {disfmarker} and I think a crucial part of that is the idea of {disfmarker} of not wanting to do it until right before the next level zero back - up so that there won't be hugenumber of {disfmarker} of added ,PhD B: Right .Postdoc A: uh {disfmarker}Grad F: Right .PhD B: That {disfmarker} that was basically it . Not {disfmarker} not much @ @ {disfmarker}Grad F: Although Dave basicallysaid that if we wanna do it , just tell him and he 'll do a d level zero then .Postdoc A: Yeah . Uh - huh . Oh , excellent .Grad F: So .Postdoc A: Oh , good .PhD B: Oh , so maybe we should just go ahead and get everythingready , and {disfmarker}Grad F: Yep . So , I think we do need to talk a little bit about {disfmarker} Well , we don't need to do it during this meeting .PhD B: Yeah .Grad F: We have a little more to discuss . But , uh , we're {disfmarker} we 're basically ready to do it . And , uh , I have some web pages on ts {comment} more of the background . So , naming conventions and things like that , that I 've been trying to keep actually up todate . So . And I 've been sharing them with U - d UW folks also .Postdoc A: I 'm sorry , you 've been what ? Showing them ?Professor D: OK .Postdoc A: Sharing them .Grad F: Sharing them with the UW folks .PostdocA: OK . OK .Professor D: OK . Well , maybe uh , since that {disfmarker} that was a pretty short one , maybe we should talk about the IBM transcription status . Someone can {vocalsound} fill in Liz and Andreas later .UhGrad F: OK . So , we , uh {disfmarker} we did another version of the beeps , where we separated each beeps with a spoken digit . Chuck came up here and recorded some di himself speaking some digits , and so itjust goes \" beep one beep \" and then the phrase , and then \" beep two beep \" and then the phrase . And that seems pretty good . Um , I think they 'll have a b easier time keeping track of where they are in the file .PhDE: And we have done that on the {pause} automatic segmentations .Grad F: And we did it with the automatic segmentation , and I don't think {disfmarker} We ne we didn't look at it in detail . We just sent it to IBM .We {disfmarker} we sorta spot - checked it .PhD B: I listened to {pause} probably , uh , five or ten minutes of it from the beginning .PhD E: Yeah .Grad F: Oh , really ?PhD B: Yeah .Grad F: OK .PhD B: And{disfmarker}Grad F: I sorta spot - checked here and there and it sounded pretty good . So . I think it 'll work .Professor D: OK .Grad F: And , uh , we 'll just hafta see what we get back from them . Uh {disfmarker}PhDB: And the main thing will be if we can align what they give us with what we sent them . I mean , that 's the crucial part .Grad F: Right .PhD B: And I think we 'll be able to do that at {disfmarker} with this new beepformat .Grad F: Yep . Well , I think it 's also they are much less likely to d have errors .PhD B: Mm - hmm .Grad F: I mean , so the problem wi last time is that there were errors in the transcripts where they put beepswhere there weren't any , or {disfmarker} and they put in extraneous beeps .PhD B: Right . Yeah .Grad F: And with the numbers there , it 's much less likely .PhD B: Yeah , one interesting note is {disfmarker} uh , orproblem {disfmarker} I dunno if this was just because of how I play it back , I say , uh , SND - play and then the file , every once in a while , @ @ {comment} uh , like a beep sounds like it 's cut into two beeps .PhD E:Yeah . Into two pieces .PhD B: Yeah , and I {disfmarker} I dunno if that 's an , uh , artifact of playback {disfmarker}PhD E: Yeah . Yep .PhD B: bu uh , I don't think it 's probably in the original file . Um , but , uh{disfmarker}PhD E: I recognize that , too . Yeah .Grad F: Ha . That 's interesting . I didn't hear that .PhD B: Yeah . But with this new format , um , that hopefully they 're not hearing that , and if they are , it shouldn'tthrow them .PhD E: Yep .PhD B: So .Grad F: Well , maybe we better listen to it again , make sure , but , I mean , certainly the software shouldn't do that ,PhD B: Yeah . That 's what I thought .Grad F: so .Postdoc A:Mm - hmm .PhD B: I it 's probably just , you know , mmm , somehow the audio {pause} device gets hung for a second ,PhD E: Yeah . Some latency or something .Grad F: Hiccups .PhD E: Yeah ?Postdoc A: As long asthey have one number , and they know that there 's only one beep maximum {vocalsound} that goes with that number .PhD B: or {disfmarker}PhD E: Yeah .PhD B: Yeah . Right .Grad F: Yeah . The only {disfmarker}the only part that might be confusing is when Chuck is reading digits .PhD B: Right .PhD E: Yep .Postdoc A: Well , you know , actually , are we having them {disfmarker}PhD B: So {vocalsound} thGrad F: \" Seven foureight beep seven beep {vocalsound} eight three two \" .Postdoc A: Yeah , but are we having them do digits ?Grad F: Yes . Because , uh , we don't {disfmarker} we didn't {disfmarker} In order to cut them out we 'dhave to listen to it .PhD B: We {disfmarker} we didn't cut those out .PhD E: Yeah . They are not transcribed yet . So . Yeah .Postdoc A: OK .PhD E: Yeah .Grad F: And we wanted to avoid doing that ,Postdoc A: OK .GradF: so we {disfmarker} they are transcribing the digits .Postdoc A: OK .PhD B: We can {disfmarker} we can ignore it when we get it back ,Grad F: Although we could tell them {disfmarker} {comment} {vocalsound} wecould tell them , if you hear someone reading a digits string just say \" bracket digit bracket \"PhD B: huh .Grad F: and don't bother actually computing the di writing down the digits .PhD B: Yeah .Postdoc A: That 'd begreat . That 'd be what I 'm having the transcribers here do , cuz it can be extracted later .Grad F: Yep . And then I wanted to talk about {disfmarker} but as I said I {disfmarker} we may not have time {disfmarker}what we should do about digits . We have a whole pile of digits that haven't been transcribed .Professor D: Le - let 's talk about it , because that 's {disfmarker} that 's something that I {disfmarker} I know Andreas isless interested in than Liz is ,Grad F: OK .Professor D: so , you know . It 's good {disfmarker}Grad F: Do we have anything else to say about transcription ? About IBM stuff ?PhD B: Uh , Brian {disfmarker} I{disfmarker} I {vocalsound} sent bresset {disfmarker} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} sent Brian a message about {pause} {vocalsound} the meeting and I haven't heard back yet . So . I g hope he got it and hopefullyhe 's {disfmarker}Grad F: OK .Postdoc A: Hmm .PhD B: maybe he 's gone , I dunno . He didn't even reply to my message . So . I should probably ping him just to make sure that he got it . Grad F: Alright . So , wehave a whole bunch of digits , if we wanna move on to digits .Professor D: Actually , maybe I {disfmarker} One {disfmarker} one relate more related thing in transcription . So that 's the IBM stuff . We 've got thatsorted out . Um , how 're we doing on the {disfmarker} on the rest of it ?Postdoc A: We 're doing well . I {disfmarker} I hire {disfmarker} I 've hired two extra people already , expect to hire two more .Grad F: Hmm.Postdoc A: And , um , {vocalsound} I 've prepared , um , uh , a set of five which I 'm {disfmarker} which I 'm calling set two , which are now being edited by my head transcriber , {vocalsound} in terms of spellingerrors and all that . She 's also checking through and mar and {disfmarker} {vocalsound} and monitoring , um , the transcription of another transcriber . You know , I mean , she 's going through and doing these kindsof checks .Professor D: Uh - huh .Postdoc A: And , I 've moved on now to what I 'm calling set three . I sort of thought if I do it in sets {disfmarker} groups of five , then I can have , like , sort of a {disfmarker} aparallel processing through {disfmarker} through the {disfmarker} the current .Professor D: Uh - huh .Postdoc A: And {disfmarker} and you indicated to me that we have a g a goal now , {vocalsound} for the{disfmarker} for the , um , {nonvocalsound} {vocalsound} the , uh , DARPA demo , of twenty hours . So , I 'm gonna go up to twenty hours , be sure that everything gets processed , and released , and {disfmarker}{pause} {comment} and that 's {disfmarker} that 's what my goal is . Package of twenty hours right now , {vocalsound} and then once that 's done , move on to the next .Professor D: Yeah , uh , so twenty hours . ButI guess the other thing is that , um , that {disfmarker} that 's kinda twenty hours ASAP because the longer before the demo we actually have the twenty hours , the more time it 'll be for people to actually do coolthings with it .Postdoc A: Mm - hmm . Good . I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm hiring people who , {vocalsound} uh , really are {disfmarker}Professor D: So . OK .Postdoc A: They would like to do it full - time , several of thesepeople . And {disfmarker} and I don't think it 's {vocalsound} possible , really , to do this full - time , but , that {disfmarker} what it shows is motivation to do as many hours as possible .Professor D: Mm - hmm .GradF: It 'll keep your accuracy up . Yep .Professor D: Yeah .Postdoc A: And they 're really excellent .Professor D: Yeah . Well , that 's good .Postdoc A: Yeah . Got a good core group now .Professor D: Yeah , I mean , Iguess the {disfmarker} So the difference if {disfmarker} if , um , if the IBM stuff works out , the difference in the job would be that they p primarily would be checking through things that were already done bysomeone else ?Postdoc A: Again . Mm - hmm .Professor D: Is that most of what it {disfmarker} ?Grad F: And correcting .Professor D: I mean {disfmarker} Correcting .Grad F: Correcting . We 'll {disfmarker} we 'llexpect that they 'll have to move some time bins and do some corrections .Postdoc A: And I {disfmarker} you know , I 've also d uh , discovered {disfmarker} So with the new transcriber I 'm {disfmarker} um{disfmarker} So {disfmarker} Uh , lemme say that my , uh {disfmarker} So , um {disfmarker} At present , um , the people have been doing these transcriptions a channel at a time . And , that sort of , um ,{vocalsound} is useful , and t you know , and then once in a while they 'll have to refer to the other channels to clear something up . OK . Well , {vocalsound} I realize that , um , w i we we 're using the pre -segmented version , and , um , the pre - segmented version is extremely useful , and wouldn't it be , useful also to have the visual representation of those segments ? And so I 've {disfmarker} {pause} uh , {pause} I ,uh , uh , I 've {comment} trained the new one {disfmarker} uh , the new the newest one , {vocalsound} to , um , {vocalsound} use the visual from the channel that is gonna be transcribed at any given time . And that's just amazingly helpful . Because what happens then , is you scan across the signal and once in a while you 'll find a blip that didn't show up in the pre - segmentation .Grad F: Oh , right .Postdoc A: And that 'll besomething like {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I it 's ver {disfmarker} it 's interesting .Grad F: I see what you mean . A backchannel , or {disfmarker}Postdoc A: Once in a while it 's a backchannel .PhD E: Yep .Postdoc A:Sometimes it seems to be , um , similar to the ones that are being picked up .Grad F: Mm - hmm .Postdoc A: And they 're rare events , but you can really go through a meeting very quickly . You just {disfmarker} youjust , you know , yo you s you scroll from screen to screen , looking for blips . And , I think that we 're gonna end up with , uh {pause} better coverage of the backchannels ,Professor D: Yeah .Postdoc A: but at thesame time we 're benefitting tremendously from the pre - segmentation because {vocalsound} there are huge places where there is just absolutely no activity at all . And , uh , the audio quality is so good{disfmarker}Professor D: Mm - hmm .PhD B: So they can {disfmarker} they can , um , scroll through that pretty quick ?Postdoc A: Yeah . Mm - hmm .PhD B: That 's great .Postdoc A: Yeah . So I think that that 'sgonna , also {pause} eh , {comment} you know , speed the efficiency of this part of the process .Professor D: Hmm . OK . Uh , yeah . So , uh {disfmarker} Yeah . So let 's talk about the digits , since they 're not hereyet .Grad F: Uh , so , we have a whole bunch of digits that we 've read and we have the forms and so on , um , but only a small number of that ha well , not a small number {disfmarker} only a subset of that has beentranscribed . And so we need to decide what we wanna do . And , uh , Liz and Andreas {disfmarker} actually they 're not here , but , they did say at one point that they thought they could do a pretty good job of justdoing a forced alignment . And , again , I don't think we 'll be able to do with that alone , because , um , sometimes people correct themselves and things like that . But {disfmarker} so , I was just wondering whatpeople thought about how automated can we make the process of finding where the people read the digits , doing a forced alignment , and doing the timing .Professor D: Well , forced alignment would be one thing .What about just actually doing recognition ?Grad F: Well , we {disfmarker} we know what they read , because we have the forms .Professor D: No , they make mistakes .Grad F: Right . But , the point is that we wannaget a set of clean digits .PhD B: You 're talking about as a pre - processing step .Professor D: Right .PhD B: Right , Morgan ?Professor D: Um {disfmarker}PhD B: Is that what you 're {disfmarker} ?Professor D: Yeah , I'm {disfmarker} I 'm not quite sure what I 'm talking about . I mean {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I mean , uh , we 're talking about digits now . And {disfmarker} and so , um , there 's a bunch of stuff that hasn't beenmarked yet . Uh . And , um , {vocalsound} there 's the issue that {disfmarker} that they {disfmarker} we know what {disfmarker} what was said , but do we ?Grad F: I mean , so one option iProfessor D: Becausepeople make mistakes and stuff . I was just asking , just out of curiosity , if {disfmarker} if with , uh {disfmarker} uh , the SRI recognizer getting one percent word error , uh , would we {disfmarker} would we do{pause} better {disfmarker} ? So , if you do a forced alignment but the force but the {disfmarker} but the transcription you have is wrong because they actually made mistakes , uh , or {vocalsound} false starts , it 's{disfmarker} it 's much less c {vocalsound} it 's {pause} much less common than one percent ?Grad F: But that 's pretty uncommon . Um , if we could really get one percent on {disfmarker}Professor D: We should beable to .Grad F: Well , I guess {disfmarker} yeah , I guess if we segmented it , we could get one percent on digits .Professor D: Right ?PhD B: Yeah .Professor D: Yeah . So that 's just my question . I 'm not saying itshould be one way or the other , but it 's {disfmarker} If {disfmarker}Grad F: But , Well , there {disfmarker} there 're a couple different of doing it . We could use the tools I 've already developed and transcribe it .Hire some people , or use the transcribers to do it . We could let IBM transcribe it . You know , they 're doing it anyway , and unless we tell them different , they 're gonna transcribe it . Um , or we could try someautomated methods .Professor D: Well {disfmarker}Grad F: And my {disfmarker} my tendency right now is , well , if IBM comes back with this meeting and the transcript is good , just let them do it .Professor D: Yeah, it 's {disfmarker} Y you raised a point , kind of , uh , euphemistically {disfmarker} but , I mean , m maybe it is a serious problem . Ho - what will they do when they go {disfmarker} hear \" beep {pause} seven{pause} beep {pause} seven three five two \" {disfmarker} I mean , {vocalsound} you think they 'll {disfmarker} we 'll get {disfmarker} ?Grad F: It 's pretty distinct .Professor D: Yeah ?Grad F: The beeps are {pause}pre - recorded .PhD B: It 'll {comment} only be a problem for m for mine .PhD E: Yeah .Postdoc A: Well it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} well , it 'd be preceded by \" I 'm reading transcript so - and - so \" ?PhD B: Yeah.Grad F: Yes .Postdoc A: So , I think if they 're processing it at {disfmarker}Grad F: I mean , it 'll be {disfmarker} it will be in the midst of a digit string .Professor D: Yeah .Grad F: So {disfmarker} I mean it{disfmarker} sure , there {disfmarker} there might be a place where it 's \" beep seven {pause} beep eight {pause} beep {pause} eight {pause} beep \" . But , you know , they {disfmarker} they 're {disfmarker} they're gonna macros for inserting the beep marks . And so , I {disfmarker} I don't think it 'll be a problem . We 'll have to see , but I don't think it 's gonna be a problem .Professor D: OK . Well , I {disfmarker} I{disfmarker} I dunno , I {disfmarker} I think that that 's {disfmarker} if they are in fact going to transcribe these things , uh , certainly any process that we 'd have to correct them , or whatever is {disfmarker} needsto be much less elaborate for digits than for other stuff .Grad F: Right .Professor D: So , why not ? Sure . That was it ?Grad F: That was it . Just , what do we do with digits ?Professor D: OK .Grad F: We have so many ofthem , {vocalsound} and it 'd be nice to {pause} actually do something with them .Professor D: Well , we {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we wanna have them . Yeah , I {disfmarker}PhD I: You mean there 're morethan ten ?Grad F: Anything else ? Your mike is a little low there .Professor D: I in Berkeley , yeah . So , {vocalsound} uh {pause} You {disfmarker} you have to go a little early , right ? At twenty {disfmarker}PhD I:Well , I can stay till about , uh , three forty .Professor D: Alright . So le let 's make sure we do the ones that {disfmarker} that , uh , saved you .PhD I: Yeah . Mm - hmm .Professor D: So there was some {disfmarker}Uh {pause} {vocalsound} In {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} Adam 's agenda list , he had something from you about segmentation this last recognition ?PhD I: Well , yeah . So this is just partly to inform everybody , um, and {disfmarker} and of course to get , um , input .Grad F: Oops .PhD I: Um , so , {nonvocalsound} uh , we had a discussion {disfmarker} Don and Liz and I had discussion last week about how to proceed with , uh ,"}
{"doc_id":"doc_4","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: So ,Project Manager: So , uh now {vocalsound}Marketing: Hi Christa . {vocalsound}Project Manager: it's the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Hi Sammy . {vocalsound} It's the detaildesign meeting , so we're going {disfmarker} last meeting . So um , first uh Mark and Rama are going to present uh the prototype . Uh then uh Sammy will propose some uh crite cr criteria to evaluate this prototype .Then , w we {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Yes . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yes . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} And then we going to do somefinance to see if uh it is uh feasibleUser Interface: And chocolate ? {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} and uh at the end we will we will um evaluate ourself as a team . {vocalsound} And that's all . Okay . Sofirst , {vocalsound} let's uh see the prototype .Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Uh , here we have our prototype model .Project Manager: Okay . And youhave some slides then ?User Interface: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Yeah , we have also some slides .Project Manager: {gap} Yeah . Mm .User Interface: Yes , and place some slides .Project Manager: Okay .Uh so in which uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Uh , participant three . {vocalsound} Prototype .Industrial Designer: In {disfmarker} Yeah .Project Manager: Mm okay . Mm .Industrial Designer: Five .Project Manager:{vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Uh , so this is our remote control .Industrial Designer: Him .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: It's a r working prototype . You can use it now by switching allthese buttons . So first , I present as we came to this perfect model ,Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: and then we'll give some technical specifications .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .UserInterface: That's {vocalsound} well {vocalsound} {vocalsound} , so that's that . Please , next slide . We analysed all the fruitsProject Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: and contacted NASA , and uh made some{vocalsound} real good {disfmarker}Project Manager: MASA ? {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah . If you can see this , and the stars are showingthat {gap} . And um , {vocalsound} s society will accept that . For sure .Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: {vocalsound} And making some analysis of different fruits , we choose the ultimate form , ultimate colours, and uh ultimate smell of it . S please , next slide . But we still didn't want to go far from our titanium idea , 'cause it's the most of the moder the m the {gap} modern material we can p select . And it's practical . Andit's still say it's for our needs , so please press something . And as I said , {vocalsound} it's perfect . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound} Please press it .Industrial Designer: Experience . ExplanatUser Interface: Everyone is {gap} f really uh really glad to obtain an {disfmarker} {vocalsound} s such a r such a device .Marketing: Such a nicething . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: See this {gap} . {vocalsound}User Interface: So you can touch it with your hands .Marketing: Can I ?User Interface: Sure . Yes . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: You can{disfmarker}Marketing: Ho-ho . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} imitating flatulence] {vocalsound}Project Manager: What do you say ? {vocalsound}User Interface: NMarketing: It says {vocalsound}{vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} You must say it .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Spongy .Marketing: I will uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} One day.Marketing: I'll buy it . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound}Marketing: If I if I need so . {vocalsound}Project Manager: He {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing:Hopefully my daughter will like it . {vocalsound}User Interface: Okay . Y and we got the answer . Uh , it is , yes , of course .Marketing: Yes , of course . Of c course . {vocalsound}User Interface: {gap} , please nextslide . Um , this is a prototype . You can have a look at it , and {disfmarker} That's all I wanted to say .Marketing: Ah .User Interface: Now it's technical specification by our colleague .Industrial Designer: Hmm .ProjectManager: Hmm .Industrial Designer: So {disfmarker}Marketing: Oh , there is {vocalsound} a button missing .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: This this is really flexible . You can add your buttons .Marketing: It's in option . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah . So function , mm {disfmarker}Project Manager:Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} So , as we discussed , we have to switch on switch off whenever we want . And so , we have buttons and using L_C_D_ , or like you can use this {vocalsound} jog wheeland select which ever option on the L_C_D_ , and then do on and off . {vocalsound} Then you ha you'll have volume control . So , you you can press these buttons to increase or decrease the volume .Project Manager:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: And we have some L_C_D_ controls . Like , m switching the L_C_D_ display if you want to use L_C_D_ , or you don't want you can just use normal button .Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: And we have speech recognition . Here you have microphone , and then it date records your voice , and then it try to recognise .Marketing: Hmm .Project Manager: {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: And it can also do the action .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: And location finder . And we want to do the location basically using speech recogniser . You can just say , where is my remotecontrol .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Or uh , you can just give some nickname to your remote control , like Bobby {gap} .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Bobby . {vocalsound} Mm-hmm .Marketing:{vocalsound} Hey , babe .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} And then , {vocalsound} it will say hi . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Bob . {vocalsound} Hey Bob . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Yeah , hi , and then you can use it . {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay ,Project Manager: Hmm . {vocalsound} 'Kay . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: that's good .Industrial Designer: So ,{vocalsound} um our team is now fruits . Mainly strawberry . So , you can {vocalsound} have {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Oh , these are strawberries . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Andthen you can see the look L_C_D_ and all the switches .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Are colourful . Yeah . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Material , we want to stick totitanium . {vocalsound} We will send , we want to {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Fruit smelling spongy titanium . {vocalsound} I didn't know it exist , but that's great .Industrial Designer: Yeah ,or s {vocalsound} So , we want to have {vocalsound} simple and perfect shapes , like I shown in these phones . You can have your own designs and and you can feel simple designs . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Andyou can choose colours on your day for each day , or even many colours .Marketing: Ha .Project Manager: Ho-ho . That's for the L_C_D_ or for the titanium ?Marketing: You mean we can change the colour uh ofthIndustrial Designer: For the L_C_D_ .Marketing: Yeah . Yeah okay , for the L_C_D_ .Industrial Designer: With titanium it's {disfmarker} it is silver .Marketing: Tit titanium is {disfmarker}User Interface: We are stillworking on titanium .Project Manager: Mm-mm .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: So , r we'll start with L_C_D_ .Marketing: Uh , okay .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Mm , yeah .{vocalsound}User Interface: You can ask Bob . It's Tuesday . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Hey , you know you're theme today . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah ,Bob , please . {vocalsound} {gap} Tuesday colour . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah . Even you can configure your colours for its {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} depending on your mood , or sMarketing: Okay.Project Manager: Hmm .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Black for Sunday . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} And you can have many colours on weekends. Or {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Project Manager: And w wait , wh what are the strawberries for ? {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Wh whIndustrial Designer: Huh ?Marketing: On the L_C_D_ ?Industrial Designer: Ah , theseare like sensors .Marketing: Oh .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Of course .User Interface: That's location sensors .Marketing: {vocalsound} What doyou think ? {vocalsound} Strawberry sensors . {vocalsound} Very useful .Project Manager: Okay . {vocalsound} Strawberries .Industrial Designer: So , {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: after this meeting we'll propose a party for our success for {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Ah . {vocalsound}Marketing: Lounge meeting . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} So , ifyou are vegetarian or you have any options , please let us know .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah , and we can just {gap} some strawberry first . Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah .ProjectManager: {vocalsound} Okay . {vocalsound} Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}Marketing: Alright . Good . {vocalsound}User Interface: Oops .Industrial Designer: SMarketing: So , huh . Interesting . In interesting . Mm mm.Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So , any specific questions for {disfmarker}Project Manager: we'll see in the financial part if uh {vocalsound} all{vocalsound} {gap} {vocalsound} gets into {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} It makes sense .Industrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound}User Interface: Let's make a party first maybe .{vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} W Who is the five uh {disfmarker} fifty millions we {vocalsound} first make a party in ?Industrial Designer: Yeah . Then we can discuss{disfmarker} We can {disfmarker} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Yeah , then we can have how much for how money is left . {vocalsound}Marketing: So uh , this is {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing:What a design .Project Manager: Okay . {vocalsound} Uh , so {disfmarker} Let's uh ,Marketing: {vocalsound} It's my turn .Project Manager: yeah , let's see if uh th it's meet the evaluation criterium .{vocalsound}Marketing: Mm-hmm . Let's see if this {disfmarker} Yeah , if you meet {vocalsound} the evaluation criterion .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oops .Marketing:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Fudge .Marketing: Yeah . So , evaluation please . So . You made a very nice prototype , and um , I think , we now need altogether to try to evaluate it to see if it makes sense to do it ,if it fulfils our {disfmarker} what we want to do , and things like that . So mm {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Uh , next slide , please . {vocalsound} As you know , before going and uh creating and producing thesestrawberry {vocalsound} uh {vocalsound} remote control , it's very important to first verify if it makes sense , if we have a chance to sell it .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .Marketing: Uh , so we need toevaluate it um , try to do it in a constative way , and as much as we can . To {disfmarker} so what I propose is that we are going to to have this scale from one to seven . One meaning that , ye yes uh it fulfils uh thethe criterion , whatever it is . And seven meaning , no it doesn't fulfil at all . And we're all l going to list all the criterion . I'm going to go to that next slide ,Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: and together try to evaluatethis according to this criterion and from one to seven . And then we are just going to have an average , which will give us the value of our uh remote control . So , maybe we can have a look at the criteria ?IndustrialDesigner: Fancy .Marketing: So these are the criterion uh I'm {disfmarker} I thought were important . Of course , this can be discussed , but let's let's see , so let's vote . So we have fancy here and we have the scalefrom one to seven with four in the middle .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Huh .Marketing: So ,Industrial Designer: Yeah , what's is really {disfmarker}Marketing: what do you think , is it fancy ?{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Uh , it's really {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh , I think that fancy , we can say it is fancy . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} It is very very fancy .Or have you ever seen something like that ? {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Oh . I am not the d the only one choosing , yeah .Marketing: Yeah , of course .Project Manager: Uh what do you think?Marketing: What do you think ?User Interface: Feel the weight .Marketing: Is it {disfmarker} The weight is later .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Oh .User Interface: Really . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh-huh .{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Now {vocalsound} we're {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: Okay .Marketing: We're on the fanciness now . I think it's quite fancy .Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah.Project Manager: Yeah . Yeah .Industrial Designer: We can give at least five or six , seven .Marketing: It's uh {disfmarker} Yeah , so {disfmarker} No it's it's one .Project Manager: It's in the other {gap} .IndustrialDesigner: Oh , {gap} Oh . So {disfmarker} Oh , okay . Yeah , okay . Oh , okay . So {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah , o one means it's , yes , a very fancy and seven mean no at all .Project Manager: Mm .{vocalsound}Marketing: So it's one or two .Project Manager: Two . Let's say two , yeah .Industrial Designer: M maybe two .Marketing: What do you think ? Two ?User Interface: Two . Two .Marketing: Okay . So here ,two . Up .Industrial Designer: Technology .Marketing: Then we have uh technology .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Um {disfmarker}Marketing: So , what about technology ? We have uh we have speech recognition , wehave location based {gap} ,Industrial Designer: And we have L_C_D_ .Marketing: we have L_C_D_ .Project Manager: Change colour of tIndustrial Designer: So you change colours .Marketing: Change colour , I meanthat's very {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Useful .Project Manager: Yeah , I think it's a {disfmarker}Marketing: QuiteUser Interface: Yeah , yeah , yeah .Marketing: d I think it's a one for that , at least .ProjectManager: Yeah . Yeah .User Interface: Yeah . Uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah . It's silly .Marketing: At least a one , yeah .Project Manager: Mm-mm . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}{vocalsound}Marketing: Robustness , uh-huh .Industrial Designer: Uh , still we need to cha {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} So {vocalsound} let's suppose my daughter take it and um {vocalsound}{disfmarker} and through it away .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um {disfmarker}Marketing: Do you think it makes sense that it's going to live again ? Uh , maybe not the prototype .Project Manager: Thestrawberries {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah , it {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Let's try . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Oh my god .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Maybe strawberry .Marketing: Okay , we just lost one strawberry .User Interface: No .Industrial Designer: Oh .Marketing: So {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: No . How can Isay this .Marketing: Not at all ?Industrial Designer: Yeah , we can easily plug it .User Interface: It's still it's still working , and your daughter got a bonus .Marketing: It is {disfmarker} Yeah . {vocalsound} Yeah .UserInterface: {vocalsound} A strawberry .Marketing: So it's not so bad .Project Manager: Mm-mm .Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah .Marketing: I um uh I would say three .Project Manager: Yeah . But it's too {gap}.Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: It's um robust , yeah .Marketing: Yeah , that does make sense , yeah ?Industrial Designer: Useful ?Marketing: Useful . {vocalsound} Well , so the question is does it have uhthe minimum requirement of re remote control ?Industrial Designer: Yeah , {gap} {disfmarker}Marketing: So I don't know . These buttons are uh {disfmarker} It not clear .Project Manager: Oh , yeah , lets me try.Marketing: But you have at least uh next produce .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: What is uh next , please ?Industrial Designer: Yeah , channel . I this is volume control andchannel changes . These are the main {disfmarker}Marketing: Uh , it depends on the {disfmarker}Project Manager: And you can uh do di two sites ?Marketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: You {disfmarker}ProjectManager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Yeah , and you can do on L_C_D_ using these going to scrolling all the option .Project Manager: Okay , also .Industrial Designer: So if you don't want {disfmarker}Marketing:So but , for instance , because the L_C_D_ is not uh touch control , touch screen , you cannot go to channel twenty five directly .Industrial Designer: Yeah , um {disfmarker} yeah .Project Manager: You can , by usingthe {disfmarker}User Interface: You can .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Directly .User Interface: You go {disfmarker} you {disfmarker}Project Manager: You c push here the the {disfmarker}User Interface: So, the basic mode {disfmarker}Project Manager: yeah . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah . So that's simple . The basic mode is uh you got just two buttons and a jog dial .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: With twobuttons , you do this like uh volume up , volume down .Marketing: Oh , it's a jog dial , okay .User Interface: Or if you go to the site , it's channel up channel down .Industrial Designer: And channel .Marketing: Uh-huh .Okay .User Interface: And if you want to make to s twenty-five , you push on this .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: You select twenty , you select five .Industrial Designer: You can select .Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay.User Interface: That's it .Industrial Designer: Yeah mm .Marketing: It's much longer than that that being two two five , no ?User Interface: No .Marketing: Don't you think so ? May {disfmarker} not {disfmarker} okay, we can go . That's uh {disfmarker} You're right .Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah , yeah . Y you need to like press two and five and {disfmarker} Yeah .Marketing: That's {disfmarker} it's less uh {disfmarker} Yeah .But it's it's nice , because people anyway don't go there .Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah . Yeah mm .Marketing: But {disfmarker} {vocalsound} So what do you think for it , usefulness ?Industrial Designer: So , d Yeah, we need to address {disfmarker} we want {disfmarker}Marketing: Seems to be useful . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: we only address two main functions here and the other functions will be on L_C_D_ .SoProject Manager: {vocalsound} Let me understand well ,Industrial Designer: so {disfmarker}Project Manager: because I'm not sure {disfmarker} that's for {disfmarker} that this one are b d uh two dir directionalbutton .Marketing: Both . Yeah . Yeah .User Interface: Yeah . Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Up .Marketing: Up down or left right . Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah .And which {disfmarker} what is that ?User Interface: It's a jog dial for controlling the cursor on the L_C_D_ screen .Industrial Designer: This is jog wheel .Marketing: That {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay , okay .It's a kind {disfmarker} Oh , okay okay . {vocalsound}User Interface: Like , selecting the menus .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Um , {vocalsound} see in L_C_D_ , like you will have blocks and you select which one.Marketing: Cool .Project Manager: Oh oh okay , great .Marketing: I would say then uh {disfmarker} {gap}Project Manager: Now it's looks us useful .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Yeah .Marketing: Two or three ?ProjectManager: Yeah .Marketing: Two or three ?Industrial Designer: Two , maybe . {vocalsound}Marketing: Two .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah .Marketing: Okay , two . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} So size and weight.Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah . {gap}Marketing: Is it the the the effective size and weight that the {disfmarker} Is it uh real size , real weight ? Or {disfmarker} Because it {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah ,"}
{"doc_id":"doc_5","qid":"","text":"Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Are you sure I got it all {disfmarker} head's kinda small .User Interface: How're we placed in terms of the {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay . {gap}User Interface: alright.Marketing: We're okay ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Guess I should probably try to sit up straight .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Like that ? Okay , cool .Marketing: We're good ?IndustrialDesigner: Oh , I think mine's fallen off .User Interface: It fell {disfmarker} That's why .Marketing: I guess it's gonna be hard to drink coffee .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm .User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: Uh okay .User Interface: Ah .Project Manager: Okay ? {vocalsound} Right , so I'm just gonna start this PowerPoint real quick . Yeah , PowerPoint .Industrial Designer: Wow .User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: Very official .Project Manager: Yeah , well , you know , {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}ProjectManager: Yeah I kinda like this I'm kinda getting into it . Right . Um . So just to kick off the meeting basically um so we're working now for a real reaction , this is uh so it {vocalsound} right . Just got an agenda to setout what we're gonna try to accomplish in this particular first meeting . Um {vocalsound} We're gonna just do a quick opening and we can hopefully all get acquainted with one another um then we're gonna start{disfmarker} talk a little bit about tool training . Essentially that means getting used to the only thing that we haven't tried out yet , the whiteboard . {vocalsound} Um {vocalsound} we've got a general plan for theproject how we're gonna go about accomplishing this and then just a bit of discussion close up . Um I {gap} guess you know game or something um {vocalsound} in real life um so yeah basically I want to {disfmarker}I'm just gonna {disfmarker} you got {disfmarker} of course you can discuss that , I'm thinking about um {vocalsound} uh proposing that since we've got this weird blend of ourselves and our roles that we just don'task , don't tell . {vocalsound} Um so um if you say something about marketing , right , sorted , um {vocalsound} y isMarketing: {vocalsound} You're just gonna believe me ,Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: we'll go from there .Project Manager: Exactly . Um I meanMarketing: Fair enough .Project Manager: obvi if if you guys {disfmarker} if if at the same time if you {disfmarker} like logically ifsomething doesn't {disfmarker} like if I'm like we're gonna sell a remote control that's the size of this paper book you know um you say like well that doesn't seem like such a good idea because of X_ obviously go withit . I mean we'll discuss it but I'm not gonna ask do you know that or uh yeah it seems likeMarketing: Prove itProject Manager: {vocalsound} yeah yeah exactlyMarketing: yeah , okay .Project Manager: so , 'cause we're{disfmarker} what we're sort of role playing is y g yeah you're gonna tap into your own knowledge as well {vocalsound} um . And that's the same for your when we do introductions I mean um and you talk about yourbackground you know have fun , you know maybe you went to um {vocalsound} uh you know maybe i you're like in Maine you went to U_C_S_B_ but you wanna say you went to Harvard or something like that , whynot , you knowIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: you can {disfmarker} this is you know I guess we can have a little bit of fun with it . So are you guys okay with that does thatseem logical ?Industrial Designer: Oh yeah , that's fine .User Interface: Sure .Marketing: Works for me .Project Manager: Sweet . Cool . So I guess that that {vocalsound} we're totally {disfmarker} we're making aremote control which is thrillingIndustrial Designer: Right .Project Manager: um uh but the idea is that we can make something based on the whole corporate model I dunno if you guys had time to check the{disfmarker} in real life I dunno if you guys uh {vocalsound} checked the um {vocalsound} uh the corporate website . Um we've got to make something as fashionable as possible , that's kind of the corporate strategyis we're gonna try to take ordinary stuff that nobody really thinks about and try to make it nice you know like John Lewis nice or you know if you go to Debenham's or something . So um basically we are reinventing thewheel but we wanna try to do it in a user friendly um slick sleek kind of way . {vocalsound} Um way we're gonna go about doing that is basically at first we're gonna start on the basics . And that's where I'm gonnaneed you guys the User Interface Designers and the um {vocalsound} um the other designer that I can't remember ,Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: the the I_D_ and the U_I_D_ right um {vocalsound} theIndustrial DesignerIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: hey right on alright ,User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: getting into it umMarketing:There you go .Project Manager: to guide me and guide us on this project 'cause you're gonna be {disfmarker} you're g you guys are the bottom you know you're like no you can't do that you can't have you know X_and Y_ um at the same time . And then um we'll work up from what is necessary to more like what would be good , you know like um {vocalsound} I I think you guys probably got the same emails I did but the idea ofum , yes a coffee pot needs to be able to hold coffee but it's also better if it's not like really cheap glass so that it if you touch it you hurt your hand , or something like that . Um and so we'll work up from there and umthen we'll meet on and talk about it and then finally we'll incorporate as kind of the last stage you know where you guys build or tell me {vocalsound} tell us what's possible and then you tell us what we can um hope forand what way to go take the the the take the basics and make it nicer and then ov obviously uh the U_I_D_ and the I_D_ you know you you can keep on the you know sort of at the cutting edge of how to get aboutmaximising what is possible um to try t of sync it all up . So that's the detailed design . So it's a three stage kind of thing . Um right so for now just for th the white board um basically uh just to get used to it , I haven'ttried it yet either um I'm just gonna start and um mm carry like five remotes around um and just write down {disfmarker} I'm just gonna write down one of the names of my um desert discs you know if you{disfmarker} if you were trapped on a desert island and you could only bring five C_D_s along with you name one of them that you could , not all five , if you wanna write all five go for it but name one of them that youcould um . Oh , we skipped introductions . Nice . I'm a excellent Project Manager . Um .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I'm Marty ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}ProjectManager: um I went to uni at uh U_C_ Santa Barbara and I'm here working on a P_H_D_ in psychology . Um yeah . So {disfmarker}Marketing: I'm Sarah , I went to Michigan , and I'm here doing cultural studies andI'm the Marketing Manager or something . Marketing ,Project Manager: Expert {vocalsound}Marketing: yeah Expert . Expert .Project Manager: Don't play yourself down . Expert {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: Fine . That's me .User Interface: I'm Ron . I uh once upon a time studied in Victoria and I am the User Interface Designer .Industrial Designer: I'm Nathan , I'm from California , and I'm heredoing a Masters degree in social anthropology .Project Manager: Where did you go to uni Nathan ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} U_C_L_A_ .Project Manager: Oh brilliant . Cool . My little brother goes there.Industrial Designer: Yeah . Okay .Project Manager: Right so desert island discs .Marketing: So .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: So do we have to wait for you to write it down or are you gonna tell us ?ProjectManager: Well I'll t iMarketing: I'm waiting to know .Project Manager: no no yeah I'm just gonna write a couple of 'em down . See I'm a big music fan I don't know if you guys are , I'm assuming everybody likes musicto some lesser or greater extentMarketing: Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: but there's some other options , if you're a T_V_ slutMarketing: Fair enough .Project Manager: like I am like Smallville terrible televisionshowIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: but I happen to love it ,Marketing: Oh , Smallville .User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: it's rubbish but Ilove it .Marketing: I went to high school with Tom Willing actually .Project Manager: T the the main c the main character ?Marketing: The guy . Yeah .Project Manager: Wow . Is he a wanker ?User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah . {vocalsound} Very much so . Hell of a soccer player but a total bastard nonetheless .Project Manager: He looks really tall , like he's gotta be like six six .Marketing: Yeah . He is a big guy. Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah . Um okay so {vocalsound} I really like Jeff Buckley . You guys heard of Jeff Buckley ?Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Um that's cool 'cause like notvery many people have . Um {vocalsound} and um oh well I might as well throw a British person in there um you can't go wrong with Radiohead .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: It's a rMarketing: Goodcall .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay so it really works just like a pen only makes noises I think . It's kinda weird . AnywayMarketing: Interesting .Project Manager: yeah . Yeah , you're like press and it's{vocalsound} .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Kinda cool .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: You'll see . Alright so umUser Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: whoever wants to get upnext , you can write down some telly that you watch or whatever you want .Marketing: I guess I'll go next then .Project Manager: Right on .User Interface: Go for it .Marketing: Okay . Don't wanna lose all my mikes ,plugged in here . Okay . This is basically just pen practice huh ?Project Manager: WMarketing: Okay . Oh you're much taller than me so I'm gonna write down here . Um . Right now I'm listening to a lot of somebodynobody's ever heard of , Chris Bathgate ,Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: local Michigan folk singer ,Project Manager: Nice .Industrial Designer: Wow .Marketing: really lameUser Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: anduh uh what else did I bring with me ? Probably classical , to totally geek it out ,Project Manager: Okay yeah yeah .Marketing: yeah I think . And my family guy D_V_D_sProject Manager: Well yeah .Marketing: but wedon't need to write that one down .Project Manager: Oh , family guy . Isn't h has hIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: do you watch the new season ?Marketing: No . Are you getting it online ,ProjectManager: {vocalsound} I think I'm gonna start downloading itMarketing: or is it on sky ?Project Manager: yeah .Marketing: Yeah , that'd be nice .User Interface: Alright . Think I'm just gonna put down one uh oneC_D_ . Anybody ?Project Manager: Mm-mm .Industrial Designer: No .User Interface: No ? {gap} no ?Marketing: 'Fraid not .User Interface: Afro beat orchestra , very cool .Project Manager: Afro beat orchestra ? Verycool . Mm .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Sounds nice .User Interface: Fift SMarketing: Mm .User Interface: they like fifteen members from Brooklyn . Um and I'm hoping to go to the concert in Belgium , inBrussels in April first .Project Manager: Wow .Marketing: Exciting .User Interface: Yeah . It's supposed to be in Brussels anyways .Marketing: That'd be {gap} .User Interface: Um thing I love about Edinburgh{disfmarker}Marketing: Oh . I didn't even read those . Oops . I shouldn't admit that . {vocalsound}Project Manager: That's what a PowerPoint presentation is for . It's they're designed specifically to ignore . I{disfmarker} it's {disfmarker} th brilliant .Industrial Designer: Oh , wow . {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: It's the five by five , I can't read that much .Project Manager: Ah yesyes yes okay I see that .Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} YeahProject Manager: Vomit . Yes . {vocalsound}Marketing: oh it's so horrible .Project Manager: Street pizza .User Interface: {vocalsound} Love um{disfmarker}Project Manager: It's so brilliant . {vocalsound} I've seen more urine in this city than ever before ,Marketing: Oh my God .User Interface: {vocalsound} I just came from GlasgowProject Manager: I mean{disfmarker}Marketing: Seriously ?User Interface: and I'm um happy to say that there's the {disfmarker} there's the same quantity approximately .Industrial Designer: There's more vomit there .User Interface: Um.Project Manager: It's so minging .User Interface: I wMarketing: It really is {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh .User Interface: Does uh yeah .Industrial Designer: Alright . Yep .User Interface: Ready ? Minging ? Nice.Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: I'm going local . Going local .Marketing: Slide it in there . Yeah .Project Manager: I have to be here for three years so I might as well get the terminology right .Marketing: Yeah fairenough . I've already got more than I can keep track of . And I'm gonna go home next week and everyone's gonna be like oh my God you're turning into one of those people ,Project Manager: Oh , have you been homeyet ?User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: They'll be like , say something British ,Marketing: no .Project Manager: and you're like oh shut up family . {vocalsound}Marketing: I know . I know .User Interface:Uh-huh .Industrial Designer: Um {disfmarker}Marketing: Oh it should be interesting .Industrial Designer: Let's see .Marketing: Wait until I tell them I'm not coming back .Project Manager: {vocalsound} RightUserInterface: {vocalsound}Marketing: They're gonna love that one .Project Manager: you s you're gonna stay here ?Marketing: Probably .Project Manager: Wow .Marketing: Or at least get a work visa for a while and thendecide .User Interface: {vocalsound} Nice .Project Manager: Bad religion ?Marketing: 'Cause {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah , that's the music I grew up listening to .Marketing: nice .Project Manager: Yeah yeah, yeah .Marketing: Of course .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: And so there {disfmarker}Marketing: Oh , now I can think of so many other ones .Project Manager: Well yeah that's why{disfmarker}Marketing: That's how it works .Project Manager: yeah .Industrial Designer: Something I miss about my hometown .Project Manager: I miss coffee .Industrial Designer: BurritosMarketing: Mm .{vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Burritos .User Interface: Nice .Industrial Designer: that cost less than eight Pounds . {vocalsound}Marketing: Oh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Oh yeah two two bucks.Marketing: {vocalsound} Any thing that are like free .Project Manager: Where are you from in California by the way ?User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I grew up in San Diego ,Project Manager: Did youreally ? What part ?Industrial Designer: but yeah um La Jolla , P_B_ {gap} .Project Manager: Yeah I'm from San Diego as well . Yeah oh man .Marketing: Nice . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: But really uh I last livedin San Francisco , I haven't lived in Cali well I haven't lived in southern California since I was eighteen .Project Manager: Going to s like North Carol I'm sorry you you just can't get a better burrito than what's availablein the s in San Diego .Industrial Designer: It's different . 'Cause in San Diego th the tortillas are cooked on the grill and in northern California they steam them .Marketing: It must make all the difference .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah , it really does .Project Manager: Well it's it's {vocalsound} i there's other things too there's {disfmarker} you just can't place itMarketing: Ah .Project Manager: like I{disfmarker} when I went to school in the U_ {disfmarker} in Santa Barbara which is central California the Mexican food is okay , it's just not good like and yeah it's like two bucks ,Industrial Designer: Mm .ProjectManager: like literally two bucks for this massive {disfmarker} I missMarketing: Right .Project Manager: yeah good call on that .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Where you from in San Diego ?Marketing: Mm .ProjectManager: Um just literally just metropolitan San Diego , I live like five minutes from the zoo . SoIndustrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: North Park actually if you want to get real specific .Industrial Designer: Yeah, my grandparents lived on um thirty second .Project Manager: Yep .Industrial Designer: Close t uh do you know where Clare de Lune coffee shop is ,Project Manager: Yes . On university ,Industrial Designer: andProjectManager: yeah .Industrial Designer: Cafe Forte {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah it's actually like literally half a mile from my house .Industrial Designer: Cool .Project Manager: Yeah , pretty cool . Small world as wewere discussing before .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Especially when we're all from the same general region . Right so okay , success on the whiteboard . You can harness the awesome powerMarketing:There you go .Project Manager: a little bit introductions we talked about some of our C_D_sIndustrial Designer: Wow .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: and things we like about the city you know , I thinkwe'll {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um right so {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: moving on to not fun stuff {vocalsound} uh project finance .User Interface:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Um basically what we're trying to do is sell this remote for twenty five Euros . Um . {vocalsound} This is what the finance department has told me , the C_F_O_ but I don't know , I'm notsold on this , it's pretty dear , I mean twenty f that's like you know forty bucks for a remote . It would have to pretty much like do my laundry for me . Um soMarketing: Mm .Project Manager: what we can maybe workon that a later but we're gonna make a lot on it , the profit aims to make fifty million Euros on it . Eur internationally . So {vocalsound} um one of the things I I was gonna mention to you um you guys the designers isthat um it m we probably need a rever it needs to be a universal remote control probably . Um soIndustrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: something that could do N_T_S_C_ as well as PAL as well as various otherformats like if it's gonna control D_V_D_sMarketing: Makes sense .Project Manager: but um you knowMarketing: Uh .Project Manager: I'll leave that to you guys but that's something that i i it is gonna be aninternational sold thing . {vocalsound} Um but we wanna try to make it for twelve fifty . So we wanna try to make a hundred percent profit on it if we can . {vocalsound} Um s right so um just to close up , I'm not surehow much time I've used mm next time right Project Manager , sorted . Um . {vocalsound} Is uh we'll meet in another half an hour or so um {vocalsound} and I'd like the um Industrial Designer to get ge think aboutwhat needs to be done , like what the basic function of it . Um {vocalsound} U_I_D_ well yeah you right g your assignments are up there and you'll also get s assignments from {disfmarker} in your email as well morespec specifics on what do do . Um mm basic and um so I need you to tell us what um {vocalsound} we {disfmarker} what the user's gonna want .Marketing: What they're looking for .Project Manager: So actually in away you guys c maybe in our next meeting chat a bit about what the user's gonna want and what the user can have , you know like uh so {disfmarker}Marketing: And negotiate that . Uh .Project Manager: yeah well itis {vocalsound} and we'll discuss the trade-offs in between um so yeah specific instructions will be sent in your email . But I think that that is more or less a good place to start for now um and as more things come upwe'll have meetings and you'll get emails and so forth . Um any questions , before we get started ?User Interface: I assume that we're building a stand alone uh remote control , we can't kind of build it into other uhproducts .Project Manager: {vocalsound} You mean to like {disfmarker}User Interface: For instance like a mobile phone or something like that .Industrial Designer: Mm . Sounds interesting .Project Manager: Hmm .{vocalsound} Yeah .Marketing: I don't think there's any rules about it yet . So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Maybe our personal coach will have something to say about that .Project Manager:{vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: Or or you know can we produ can we sell a remote control phone for twenty five pounds or less ?Project Manager: Well , have a think about it .Marketing: Mm .Project"}
{"doc_id":"doc_6","qid":"","text":"The Chair (Hon. Anthony Rota (NipissingTimiskaming, Lib.)): We'll call this meeting to order. Welcome to the fifth meeting of the House of Commons Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic.  Pursuant to theorder passed on Monday, April20, the committee is meeting today to consider ministerial announcements, to allow members of the committee to present petitions, and to question ministers, including the Prime Minister,about the COVID-19 pandemic. Tomorrow, May8, Dr.AndreaMcCrady, Dominion Carillonneur, will give a special recital to mark the 75th anniversary of Victory in Europe Day. Victory in Europe Day, VE Day,commemorates the formal acceptance of Germany's surrender by allied forces at the end of the Second World War. While the pandemic prevents us from gathering to celebrate in person, tomorrow at noon the voice ofour nation will ring out in remembrance of this milestone in our history. Today's meeting is taking place by video conference. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website. Just so you areaware, the webcast will always show the person speaking rather than the entire committee. I would like to remind members that, as in the House of Commons or committee, they should not take photos of theircolleagues or film the proceedings. In order to facilitate the work of the interpreters and to allow the meeting to proceed smoothly, I would ask you to follow some instructions. The video conference will be interpreted asin normal meetings of committees and in the House. In the lower part of your screen, you can choose the language: floor, English or French. Please wait until I call on you by name before you begin to speak. When youare ready to speak, click on the microphone icon to activate your microphone, or hold the space bar down while you are speaking. If you release the bar, your microphone will revert to mute, just like a walkie-talkie.Honourable members, I would like to remind you that if you want to speak English, you should be on the English channel. If you want to speak French, you should be on the French channel. Should you wish to alternatebetween the two languages, you should change the channel to the language that you are speaking each time you switch languages. Please direct your remarks through the chair. Should you need to request the flooroutside of your designated speaking time, you should activate your mike and state that you have a point of order. If a member of the committee wishes to intervene on a point of order raised by another person, youshould use the raised hand function to indicate to the chair that you wish to speak. To do this, click on the participant button at the bottom of your screen. When the list appears, you will see the raised hand optionbeside your name. Speak slowly and clearly at all times. When you are not speaking, leave your microphone on mute. It is highly recommended that you use a headset with a microphone. You have to remember toswitch languages. Should any technical challenges arise, for example, in relation to interpretation, please advise the chair immediately by raising a point of order, and the technical team will work on resolving them.Please note that we may need to suspend during these times in order to correct a problem. I want to remind the honourable members to mute their microphones when they are not speaking. If you get accidentallydisconnected, please try to rejoin the meeting with the information you used to join initially. If you are unable to rejoin, please contact our technical support team. Before we get started, please note that in the topright-hand corner of your screen is a button that you can use to change views. Speaker view allows you to focus on the person currently speaking; gallery view allows you to see a larger number of participants. You canclick through the multiple pages in the gallery view to see who is on and how many more participants there are. I understand there are no ministerial announcements today. We will now proceed to presenting petitionsfor a period not exceeding 15 minutes. I would like to remind members that any petition presented during the meeting of the special committee must have already been certified by the clerk of petitions. In addition, toensure a petition is considered properly presented, the certificate of the petition and each page of the petition for a petition certified in a previous Parliament should be mailed to the committee no later than 6 p.m. theday before. Now we'll go to presenting petitions. Mr. Genuis.Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood ParkFort Saskatchewan, CPC): Mr. Chair, five years ago when Parliament passed Bill C-14, then justice minister JodyWilson-Raybould said that it represented a finely tuned balance between access and safeguards. It also included a five-year review. Petitioners on the first petition I'm presenting are very concerned to see Bill C-7before Parliament, which removes safeguards ahead of that five-year review. Petitioners specifically mention their concerns about the removal of the mandatory 10-day reflection period, which can already be waived incertain circumstances. They are concerned about reducing the number of witnesses required to oversee it and ensure that a request has been properly made. I commend that petition to the consideration of the House.The second and final petition that I will be presenting today is with respect to Senate Bill S-204. This would make it a criminal offence for a person to go abroad and receive an organ from a person who did not consent.This responds specifically to concerns about organ harvesting in the People's Republic of China involving Falun Gong practitioners and increasing concerns that this is being or about to be applied to Uighurs as well.Canada can and should take action on this. Petitioners are noting that in the previous Parliament there were bills on this, Bill C-350 and Bill S-240. Now, in this Parliament there is a bill, Bill S-204, and the petitionershope that this 43rd Parliament will be the one that gets it passed.The Chair: We will go to Ms. May.Ms. Elizabeth May (SaanichGulf Islands, GP): Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's an honour. This is my first occasion to present apetition in our virtual format of the COVID-19 committee. Thank you to you and your staff, Mr. Chair, for developing a system that allows us to present petitions electronically. The petition I am presenting today, whichwas previously approved, is from a number of constituents who are concerned that we pursue the Paris Agreement to hold the global average temperature increase to no more than 1.5C. The Paris Agreement itselfembeds in it the concept of Just Transition with a capital J and a capital T, the concept of just transition ensuring fairness and support for all workers in the fossil fuel sector. The petitioners call upon the Government ofCanada to move forward with an act to ensure just transition and to ensure adequate funding so that workers and communities dependent on the fossil fuel sector receive meaningful support to ensure security in theirlives in the transition to more sustainable energy use. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.The Chair: Those are all the petitions for today. I want to thank the honourable members for their usual collaboration and now we'll go ontoMr. James Bezan (SelkirkInterlakeEastman, CPC): On a point of order, Mr. Chair, on Tuesday, at our COVID-19 committee of the whole meeting, I was asking a question which started at 12:56:06 and was cut off at1:00:32, so I still have 34 seconds of time remaining in my question time of five minutes. You said it could be no more than five minutes but that I had up to five minutes. Thirty-four seconds leaves a lot of time to havea quick question and a quick response. If you believe that my time was unjustly cut off and that it was unfair treatment of the official opposition when we were raising our points of order, I would ask that the 34 secondsbe tacked on to the opening round for the opposition and credited to Rosemarie Falk, who will be leading off for the Conservatives.The Chair: Normally what happens is the chair uses judgment, and with 35 seconds,there isn't enough time obviously for a full question or answer, most of the time. I'll take it under advisement. I can't allot it. I want everyone to know that I do have a timer next to me and I am timing the questions,and I will be treating the answers the same way. If it's a 25-second question, it will be a 25-second answer. Thank you for bringing that up. I believe that issue has been remedied. We've taken a little bit of the chair'sability to give judgment on it, but it will be from now on. Thank you.Mr. James Bezan: Mr. Chair, 34 seconds is a considerable amount of time to do a short question and a short answer.The Chair: I appreciate theadvice. Thank you, Mr. Bezan. We'll now proceed to the questioning of ministers. I would like to remind the honourable members that no member will be recognized for more than five minutes at a time and thatmembers may split their time with one or more members by so indicating to the chair. Ministers responding to the questions should do so by simply turning on their microphone and speaking. Our first questioner is Ms.Falk.Mrs. Rosemarie Falk (BattlefordsLloydminster, CPC): Mr. Chair, yesterday, Elizabeth May and the leader of the separatists declared oil to be dead. It's certainly not dead, but it's dying under the Trudeaugovernment. Will the Prime Minister stand up for Canada's energy workers, or does he agree with the fringe left and those who want to destroy our country?Ms. Elizabeth May: I have a point of order.The Chair: Goahead, Ms. May.Ms. Elizabeth May: Mr. Chair, I believe that the language that the honourable member just used is unparliamentaryMr. Garnett Genuis: That's not a point of order.Ms. Elizabeth May: We can havedifferences of opinion, but it is absolutely  Some hon. members: Debate.  Ms. Elizabeth May: unacceptable and violates my privileges to  An hon member: Debate.  Ms. Elizabeth May: No, it's not debate. I would ask thechair to rule on that, not the member from the Conservative Party. It is unacceptable to assert that anyone who wants to make a point about our economy is trying to destroy the country. This allegation is a violation ofmy privilege.   An hon. member: She was also named by theThe Chair: Order. I didn't recognize anyone. I don't know who is speaking, so I'll just start talking myself. I want to remind honourable members to haverespect in their questions and in their answers. When you refer to someone, please refer to them respectfully. This is a committee of the House, and I would expect no less of the honourable members. We'll go to theright honourable Prime Minister. You have 16 seconds.Right Hon. Justin Trudeau (Prime Minister): Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. As I pointed out this morning in my press conference, we cannot move forward on atransformation of our energy sector without supporting the workers in that energy sector. We need their innovation and we need their hard work if we are going to lower our emissions, if we are going to reach ourTheChair: We'll go to Ms. Falk again.Mrs. Rosemarie Falk: Mr. Chair, it has been 43 days since the finance minister promised Canada's energy sector liquidity through the Business Development Bank of Canada. For 43 daysthe finance minister has failed to deliver on that promise. These delays cost jobs and they are costing us Canadian businesses. If the government doesn't step up to support our energy sector, they are in effect doublingdown on their support for foreign, unethically sourced oil. Mr. Chair, when will the credit options be available to Canada's small and medium energy firms?The Chair: I want to remind honourable members that we dohave interpreters who are listening and translating. In consideration to them, please speak at a reasonable pace so that they can understand and then translate. The right honourable Prime Minister.Right Hon. JustinTrudeau: Mr. Chair, from the very beginning, our priority through this pandemic and this crisis has been to support workers across the country. We have sent billions of dollars to workers right across the country,including Alberta, Saskatchewan, B.C., and Newfoundland and Labrador in the energy sector for them to be able to support their families through this difficult time. We are also working on sectoral supports right acrossthe country. Those will be announced in due course. Our focus from the get-go has beenThe Chair: We'll move to Ms. Falk.Mrs. Rosemarie Falk: Mr. Chair, another group that has been ignored by the Liberals is ourfarmers. The announcements to date fall well short of what is needed to maintain a steady supply of affordable and healthy food. The Canadian Federation of Agriculture has asked the government for a $2.6-billionemergency fund. Instead of responding to specific COVID-19 challenges, our farmers are facing the Liberals' reannounced $125 million that was already budgeted in the AgriRecovery program. Will the Prime Ministerfinally step up and take our food supply chain seriously, or is agriculture just an afterthought for him?Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: On the contrary, Mr. Chair, we take agriculture and our agricultural sector extremelyseriously, which is why we announced hundreds of millions of dollars a couple of days ago to respond to pressing needs. We will continue to make investments to ensure both the safety of workers in our agriculturalsector and the safety of our communities, as well as the continued flow of high-quality Canadian food onto our tables right across the country. Supporting the people who produce our food is a priority for thisgovernment and will continue to be.Mrs. Rosemarie Falk: Well, Mr. Chair, recycled program announcements do not respond to the immediate needs facing our farmers. This is absolutely unacceptable. Our farmers arefaced with rising operational costs, a disrupted service industry, labour shortages and a reduced capacity at processing plants. The government has a responsibility to take domestic food security seriously. When will thePrime Minister deliver adequate support to address the critical changes facing our ag industry?Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, I would suggest respectfully that the honourable member take a look once again atthe announcement we made, which actually highlights significant new investments to support our agricultural industry. I certainly agree that there is more to do. Every step of the way in this unprecedented situation,we've been moving forward on doing more, on adjusting and on investing more. We need to support our agricultural sector and the people who work so hard to put food on Canadians' tables right across the country andwe will continue to.Mrs. Rosemarie Falk: Mr. Chair, Canadians expect to find healthy and affordable food at their grocery stores, but if the government does not take action now, that's not a given. Our farmers are tryingto keep Canadians fed while keeping their heads above water. The Liberal government's own failed federal carbon tax is weighing them down. It is an enormous hit to their bottom line, and the recent carbon tax hike istaking even more money out of the pockets of farmers at a time when they can afford it the least. Will the Prime Minister exempt all farm operations from the carbon tax and reimburse the money that they have alreadytaken from them?Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, it's a shame to hear the member opposite accidentallyunintentionally, I'm certainmislead the House and Canadians. The price on pollution actually puts moremoney into Canadians' pockets, and that includes farm families. People who pay the cost of the price on pollution on average receive more money back. This is the way of creating a better future for our kids andgrandkids, which I know people in communities right across the country, including our farm communities, want to see happen. We are moving forward in a responsible way to put a price on pollution and put moremoney in average Canadians' pockets.The Chair: We now continue with Mrs.Gill. Mrs.Gill, you have the floor.Mrs. Marilne Gill (Manicouagan, BQ): Thank you, Mr.Chair. As you know, all sectors of the economy are fragileat the moment, specifically the fisheries. I am thinking about the lobster fishery in the Magdalen Islands, the crab fishery on the Cte-Nord or those fishing for herring in the south of the Gasp. Because imports haveceased, because the domestic market is weak and in decline because of the interruption of the tourism and restaurant industries, the fishing industry and its fishers must be supported. I would like to know what thegovernment has done to support our fishers since the crisis began.Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Our fishers do exceptional work that is extremely important in feeding Canadians and in contributing to our economicsuccess through their exports around the world. This crisis has struck them very hard. That is why we have established measures in the tens of millions of dollars to support our processors. We have also announced helpfor the fishers. We know that these are difficult and unprecedented times, and we are going toMrs. Marilne Gill: My thanks to the Prime Minister. I am actually talking about help for the fishers. I know about theprocessing industry and the $62.5million to be used essentially for freezing products, but I am talking about the fishers themselves. Given the economic situation, most of our fishers are getting ready to leave. First,there are health risks. We know very well that it is impossible for them to observe all the social distancing measures. They have to incur additional expenses in order to conduct their normal fishing activities. In addition,they feel that they will be losing money, because of the drop in the price of their resource. They are just as essential as farmers, but they are going to have to work at a loss and they are not going to have workers toassist them. Workers in the seasonal industry do not know what tomorrow will bring. They do not even know whether they will be able to put food on the table next year. Are you going to do anything else, in addition tothe assistance of $62.5million? Time is of the essence. Our fishers have lacked certainty for weeks and they are very concerned.Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Yes, indeed, we are going to do other things. Otherinvestments will be made in various sectors in order to support Canadians. We recognize the challenges that fishers must face in terms of social distancing and of work that is often seasonal. We are going to continueworking with the industry, with the fishers, and with the coastal communities in order to ensure that people have confidence in their abilities and in their future. In times of crisis, it is important for the government to bethere to support people, and that is exactly what we are going to continue to do. This is an unprecedented crisis, but we can see once more that Canadians are there for each other. Our government will continue to bethere for the fishers and the fishing industry.Mrs. Marilne Gill: I would have preferred us to be there from the start. Clearly, this is a difficult crisis. But, given the cyclical nature of the industry, some sectors have had topostpone for several weeks the preparations they need for fishing activities. The current program could be modified in a number of ways, to accommodate the cycle, the dates, and the size of the companies. They wouldreally like to take advantage of the $40,000loan, but they cannot because of their payroll. Given the dates, they are also ineligible for the 75%salary subsidy. I can already suggest a number of solutions to thegovernment and to the Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard, that would bring help to those businesses very quickly. The fishers carry on, because it is a duty for them, because they want to helpus and to be part of the effort at this time of crisis. At the same time, they have no guarantee that they will be supported. I would really like to hear a guarantee that they will be supported, that they will be able to putfood on the table this year, and that they will be able to support the communities that often depend on the fishing industry, a major industry in those communities.Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Minister Jordan has beenworking with the fishers, the fishing industry and the communities affected by the crisis since the crisis began. We are assessing a number of solutions. We have proposed various solutions to support the communities,the workers and the families. This is an unprecedented situation. From the outset, our priority has been to support the millions of Canadians from coast to coast who have lost their jobs. We have been able to do so, butwe are going to continue to work for those who must now face difficulties. We are going to be there for each other. That is what people are expecting from our government and from other Canadians.The Chair: Beforewe move to the next question, I would like to remind members of the committee to speak slowly, and to address their remarks to the chair and not directly to each other. Thank you very much.  We will now go to Mr."}
{"doc_id":"doc_7","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Right w welcome to the the first meeting of uh Real Reaction's uh um development meetings for our our new television remote control . Uh this follows our very successful entry into the the consumermarket over the last year or so um which we want to to build on , taking advantage of the uh the the latest developments in in technology and the uh the latest uh {vocalsound} uh feelings in in consumer design andand demand and uh we want to make this the the very best product th that's possible for everybody , uh one that everybody wants , uh at a good price for the consumer and at a good price for the company . Uh and tothat end we need all to work together uh to do that . Um and uh b in no particular order because ev everybody is uh {vocalsound} just as vital to this projectMarketing: Mm .Project Manager: um {vocalsound} I'll justgo round th the table , Andrew , marketing , um m Kendra with the uh um {disfmarker} designing the the the User Interface uh uh and Kate with the the industrial design . Um . {vocalsound} What's uh {disfmarker}the the th th project is is here to do , is is to to get this this project up and moving , ev everybody is is free to uh say wh whatever they want , uh everybody has a contribution to make and uh {vocalsound} everybodyfeel free to interrupt me at any time to to say what you want to say . Um in in terms of the immediate meeting the uh um {gap} everybody knows everybody else , everybody's worked for the the company for a while ,if if an anybody feels that they need to say more about themselves please do , if if if anybody wants to b briefly give their their background so that everybody's quite clear what everybody uh {disfmarker} uheverybody's experience is please do so . Uh in fact I'd I'd I'd welcome anybody to uh say something briefly about themselves , in fact we will do that by by going round the table quickly and and saying what whatcontribution you {disfmarker} you're looking to make . So we'll start with Andrew .Marketing: Oh my name's Andrew I'm a {disfmarker} I'm the Market Research person for this uh for this meeting and this uh projectfor creating this new remote control and uh yeah I'll be uh presenting information statistics on what people want to want to uh get from this new design , what people want to {gap} like {disfmarker} and from a fashionpoint of view and the practicality point of view .Project Manager: Right {vocalsound} Kendra .User Interface: {vocalsound} I'm Kendra and I'm the Us User Interface Designer and um {vocalsound} I haven't had awhole lot of experience in this kind of thing before but I'm m so I'll be {vocalsound} working on the design .Project Manager: Right at least means you haven't got any preconceived ideas so .User Interface: Right . Yep ,I'm just open to being creative .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh I'm Katie ,Project Manager: Yep , good .Industrial Designer: I'm the Industrial Designer and I'll just be I guess presenting about the the interworkings of our little remote control and uh {disfmarker} yeah .Project Manager: Okay , very very quickly , um {vocalsound} this {disfmarker} I don't want to make this meeting too structured because the the wholeidea is that it's a um you know a think tank . Everybody says what they {gap} what they want to say , uh and we don't want to be constrained by uh kind of convention or uh uh slides on screens or or anything else umbut um briefly um th th this is what we want to do . The the remote control needs to be original , there has to be something about it that uh other remote controls don't have so that as soon as people see it they thinkum yes that's different , uh I want one , um and that goes along with being trendy , uh uh you know the I want it uh scenario . User-friendly as as we all know , remote controls can be uh uh very user-unfriendly so wewant to make ours one that people can pick upMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: and think oh yes that's {disfmarker} it's obvious how that works , uh and they also want to look at the price and think oh yeahthat's something that {disfmarker} I may not need another remote control but uh it's such a nice one I'm gonna have one . And last but not least , or indeed first of all , it it must make the company money , and wemake the company money by producing what the consumer wants . The uh the further work to be done is i the um the functional design , uh what it uh what it must actually do , the uh conceptual design , uh how weactually present that to the consumer and th the the detailed design i is uh how we get that into production . Uh now th the main design tool that we have available to us at the moment is is the white board and uh uh{vocalsound} let us very quickly do what i what it says in the in the in the prompt slide here , um {disfmarker} In fact I suggest to avoid everybody untangling themselves from the uh the the wires , that we don't dothat , um So I I {disfmarker} everybody knows what whiteboard is so we'll um uh we'll do a virtual drawing on the on on the whiteboard of of your your own uh uh favourite animal , but le let's go round the table , yourfavourite animal .Marketing: Um , badger . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm and why ?Marketing: Uh it's it's got nice contrast with black {vocalsound} and white and uh {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh-huh.Marketing: I feel they're {gap} underdog kind of statusProject Manager: Oh rightMarketing: and they're , theProject Manager: uh my my wife says my beard looks like a badger's arse 'cause of the the white streaks init . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Um probably a duckMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Kendra .User Interface: I just {disfmarker} I li I like the way they lookand they're just nice animals and I like how they can fly or swim or walk around or whatever .Project Manager: Uh-huh . Right , okay .Industrial Designer: Uh 's horses , no particular reason why {vocalsound} .ProjectManager: Uh-huh , {gap} fair enough yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I'm not sure that I've got any favourite animal to be quite honest , I think homo sapienIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}{vocalsound}Project Manager: because of their {disfmarker} their uh overall ability to uh uh {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Make mobile phones and T_V_ remotes {vocalsound}{disfmarker}Project Manager: Sorry ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: to make T_V_ remotes {vocalsound} .Project Manager: Indeed absolutely yes ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: thathat's um {disfmarker} Okay and uh w we need to keep in mind here that the uh {disfmarker} we want to sell this for for twenty five Euro um , we want to m make an overall profit for the the company of fifty millionEuros so we're we're looking at selling a lot of these um ag across the the entire planet and and we're looking at a gross profit of fifty percent . {vocalsound} It needs to cost twelve Euros fifty to make . Um so we're notonly looking at a a very trendy original product , we're looking at making it at a very good price . Um , okay , um {vocalsound} would anybody like t like to to start by giving their o um sort of quick views of of currentremote controls .User Interface: Well I think {disfmarker} I find a lot of them really complicated to use with all the different buttons and uh it's handiest when you have one that works both the D_V_D_ player orwhatever and the T_V_ as well . Um , but that {disfmarker} it's easy to {gap} if you can switch back and forth instead of having to {vocalsound} press a bunch of different buttonsProject Manager: No .User Interface:and {disfmarker} so I think it's is best when they're clearly labelled and you can see which buttons you're supposed to use , you know .Project Manager: Any any thoughts about buttons or any oth other way ofapproaching the p the uh the problem ? Or anybody else , strong feelings about remote controls ? Are there you know , bad ones they've used or good ones they've used or ones that they've lost and never found again?Industrial Designer: Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I think it's important that you should be able to {disfmarker} when you when you press the buttons it'll actually pick up the signals from kind of anywhere and youshouldn't have to like contort yourself and twist your remote control to get it {disfmarker} the T_V_ to actually pick up the signal .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Think a lot of the time , remotes thatcome with T_V_ players and {gap} T_V_s and D_V_ players , like they aren'tIndustrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: like an area that's put a lot of effort into , they're very boring , very plain .Industrial Designer: Mm.Marketing: Like it's very {disfmarker} a very {disfmarker} like um making a a stylish remote control would be a very like {disfmarker} Easily put us one step ahead of the current competition .Project Manager: Umwhat so wh what's in in {disfmarker} what particular style features are you thinking about ?Marketing: {vocalsound} Um . Something that looks looks {disfmarker} doesn't look like remote control .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: So if you want , {vocalsound} something that looks like uh {disfmarker} something that makes you think oh what's this ? Like this pen doesn't really look like a pen ,Project Manager: Uh-huh.Marketing: but it makes you think oh .Project Manager: {gap} . YeahMarketing: So , sorry that's a bit vague {vocalsound} .Project Manager: d no I mean do you think there's a risk if it doesn't look like remote control ,{vocalsound} people won't see it as a remote control um and uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Uh I suppose suppose that's up to the marketing to to make make people aware of the product .Project Manager: Uh-huh . Anyother thoughts about um th the physical appearance of a {disfmarker} of remote controls ?User Interface: I think something that's comfortable to hold because sometimes you get the remote controls that are justthose big , rectangular thingsIndustrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: Mm .User Interface: and uh they're kind of awkward to hold onto ,Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: so something that's more comfortable thatfits in a person's hand better .Project Manager: I mean th the thing that i immediately comes to mind is computer mouses which um I mean y you get all sorts of shapes in the shopsIndustrial Designer: Mm .UserInterface: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: and s you know some quite fancy ones um than the {vocalsound} {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: some from personalexperience which look niceIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: but {vocalsound} aren't particularly comfortable . Um {vocalsound} any thoughts about buttons or flat screens or uh uh {disfmarker}UserInterface: Yeah .Marketing: Well from the mouse idea you could , {gap} remote is a piece of plastic with the big rubber buttons sticking out of it which you press , whereas if you want {gap} {disfmarker} could all beflat and the buttons are very kind of almost subtle that instead of being raised out of the device uh you push into device you see , like a mouse button .Project Manager: Yes , I mean {vocalsound} the only thing is if ifyou're watching television in a in a a darkened room um you need to be able to uhIndustrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: I suppose .Project Manager: fi find the button buttons easily .Marketing: Easily , yeah yeah .UserInterface: But maybe they could be concave instead of sticking up to have them {disfmarker} be kind of down so you could feel themIndustrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: Mm .User Interface: better .Project Manager:Yeah , that's uh {disfmarker} must admit I don't think I've ever seen one with concave buttons , that's uh {disfmarker} certainly be different . Um do we need it to uh {disfmarker} I can't think of any re remotecontrols that I know of that actually light up at all .User Interface: {vocalsound} Oh yeah .Project Manager: Do we do we want uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm that would be good .User Interface: Like a like amobile phone ?Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: Mm , yeah that would be good .Project Manager: Okay . So , Andrew have you had anythoughts yet about how we might market something which there are already millions out there and that we want to uh uh uh t take over the entire um {disfmarker} the planet with ?Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm-hmm , um {vocalsound} especially if we try to sell , what two million of them . Oh sorry , four million of 'em , but uh {disfmarker} I think if w if we market itas as not as not {disfmarker} well this {disfmarker} you c you could either market it as the point of view {disfmarker} we could have the two {disfmarker} we could have parallel marketing s schemes where you've gotone where it appeals to people that want to have the new device that looks cool , is fashionableIndustrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: and like you just {disfmarker} it's it's like uh it's one that rather than ra I wan I wantrather than a kind of a need relationship with the device ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: but that might {disfmarker} considering the act what the device is for and the nature of some people might not likerespond to having a device that they just looks nice , therefore they want it so {disfmarker} make it practical at the same time . I think it's {disfmarker} this is gonna have to appeal to people that want device that canenhance their living roomProject Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: uh but also a device that uh is practically sound .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Okay , yeah , yeah , wellMarketing: So um , I dunno we'll have to decidewhich which angle we're gonna go to or both . If you {gap} .Project Manager: I d I think an any uh any facets that we identify w we aim {disfmarker} need to aim for for all of . Um okay wellMarketing: Mm .{vocalsound}Project Manager: first thoughts on um the the industrial design side .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Oh I think it's it's {disfmarker} remote controls are kind of a unique object 'cause it's {disfmarker}you depend on them so much , but you don't {disfmarker} i i it's {disfmarker} you sort of just assume they're always gonna work , you don't think of them as a comp like a computer can break down and you're kindalike oh well fair enough there's all these complex things going on , it's gonna {disfmarker} something's gonna get messed up eventually . They they just need to be very very dependable because people sort of takethem for granted and then if your remote control breaks it's {gap} {disfmarker} God forbid you actually get up and manually change the channel {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Indeed .User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: it just {disfmarker} it needs to be very effective , very {disfmarker} always dependable . Uh I don't think we should make it too small I {disfmarker} 'cause Ithink it needs to {gap} it can't be too big like you were saying big an and huge and um awkward , but also if you make it too small kinda like you know how mobile phones are getting smaller and smaller um , it's justgonna end up under a couch cushion somewhere and um yeah .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: But {disfmarker} so yes dependable , and have a {gap} good medium range size .Project Manager: Okay ,and um colours , materials ? Kendra , anyone ?User Interface: {vocalsound} Well , most {disfmarker} I think most of the remote controls now are either just black or grey ,Project Manager: {vocalsound} {gap} .UserInterface: so maybe we should go with something different or be able to {disfmarker} I was just thinking of um {vocalsound} what they're doing with mobile phones now how you can get the different um {disfmarker}what are they called ? Like the face-platesProject Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Mm , mm-hmm .User Interface: that you change so we could have maybe {disfmarker} I don't know if it would be feasible to dosomething with that , where you can change the face-plates or have kind of a varietyProject Manager: Uh-huh .User Interface: so people can get different different things . Have it kind of look how they want to ,different colours , things like that ,Project Manager: Right .User Interface: probably just plastic because that's always the lightest .Project Manager: Yeah . Okay that's uh {disfmarker} Again I don't think that's everbeen done before ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: it's uh the sort of {gap} the sort of thing that would get people uh thinking yes that's something that I haven't got and uh might need so . Uh Andrew ,any thoughts about uh how we might market interchangeable fronts on on the remote control ?Marketing: Um , well we could either market it together by getting control in a set colour or with {disfmarker} like you buyit with several uh like you ge you get the f uh the face-plates with it when you buy or as a separate thing , but uh {vocalsound} maybe thinking of that , it's {disfmarker} considering the nature of the device , maybe asecond thing {disfmarker} like a second campaign to market new facials for your {disfmarker} to your {disfmarker} might go a bit astrayIndustrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: since it is the kindof thing where y you generally get one and then forget about it .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Unless you were trying to {disfmarker}Project Manager: I think {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Well you could comeup with like novelty ones , like they've done with the the mobile phones , you can get like different you know scenes from different movies and stuff on the remote controlMarketing: Mm .User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: {vocalsound} OhIndustrial Designer: and sorta stagger the release of themMarketing: it's {disfmarker} that's a that's a good idea .Industrial Designer: and get people like oh I want that cover on it now andthat'll keep them spending money .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Mm-mm .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: Right , okayMarketing: Yeah true .Project Manager: I think we've got um a good idea now . We uh{disfmarker} meeting is uh {disfmarker} Needs to be k uh wrapped up fairly quickly . So uh um we've got thirty minutes to start looking at the um at the design in more detail . Um then we'll we will reconvene in inthirty minutes and try to get some of these ideas uh uh more formalised . Uh thank you very much indeed .Industrial Designer: Thank you .User Interface: Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound} {gap} ."}
{"doc_id":"doc_8","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Okay , well I think we're ready to begin . Right , my name's Adam Duguid , we're here because of real reaction , um , we have in the groupMarketing: Oh , Ebenezer Ademesoye . Would you like me tospell that ?Project Manager: Um , yeah ,Marketing: SProject Manager: go for it mate .Marketing: Um , N_E_Z_Project Manager: N_ E_ Z_ .Marketing: E_R_ .Project Manager: Ebenezer . And your role is ?Marketing: I'mthe Marketing Expert .Project Manager: You're the Marketing Expert , okay . Next we have ?Industrial Designer: Tarik Rahman . T_A_R_I_K_ .Project Manager: T_ R_ I_ K_ . And your role in this is ?Industrial Designer:Industrial Designer .Project Manager: Industrial Designer . And , lastly we have ?User Interface: Uh , Dave Cochrane .Project Manager: And you're going to be the User Interface ,User Interface: User Interface DefinDesigner , yes .Project Manager: is it ? Designer . Okay . Right . This is the agenda for today's meeting . As you can see , w opening , acquaintance , tool training , project plan discussion , and closing . Um , we alreadygot n through opening , and partially through acquaintance . So , the reason we're here , we're gonna design a new remote control , as you probably all know . The very broad overview is original , trendy , anduser-friendly . Course , we'll have to go into a bit more um detail than that , but uh {vocalsound} personally I think that the original is gonna be a very key aspect to this design . Um , there's a lot of remote controls outthere anyway , so we're gonna need something that's really gonna set it apart . This is how today seems to be going to work . We're gonna have the three kay phases , as you've probably already been told , thefunctional , architectural , and the detailed design . Um {disfmarker} First one's gonna be covering the user requirement spec , technical functions , working design . Second seems to be conceptual components ,properties , materials , and the last one is a detailed analysis of our design so far . Of course , you've all got the similar emails , I believe , right . {vocalsound} What can I say ? Ebenezer , you wanna have a{disfmarker} you wanna draw your favourite animal {vocalsound} ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Sure . {vocalsound} Whiteboard . 'Kay . S okay . I will make this quick , since we don't have much time. {vocalsound} Um . {vocalsound} 'Kay , so it's not the best picture in the world .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Here we have an elephant . First point , begins with an E_ , same like Ebenezer. Also , elephants have a very good memory , much like myself ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: and I can't remember back when I used to live back in Nigeria , but I think I used to have a pet elephant .So elephants are big , strong and gentle , and they have great memories , and they begin with the letter E_ , just like Ebenezer .Project Manager: Brilliantly done . Thank you . {vocalsound}Marketing: Thank you.Project Manager: Tarik , would you like to have a shot at a bit of artistry ?Industrial Designer: {gap} .Project Manager: Oh , um ,Marketing: Oh . Oh {vocalsound} ohProject Manager: you can clip them to your belt.Industrial Designer: Do we take them off ?Marketing: I think you gaIndustrial Designer: Oh right ,Project Manager: You should also l um have your {disfmarker} the lapel mic on as well .Industrial Designer: okay.Marketing: The little {disfmarker} The the {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Ah-ha .Marketing: Oh that's good , we can clip them on . Okay . Yeah ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Now where do I put the{disfmarker}Marketing: Just um somewhere {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yep , the {gap} , it's just across there , that's it . Yep .Industrial Designer: Is this supposed to be clipped as well ?Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: I think so .Project Manager: It'll follow you if you {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah . There you go .Project Manager: You can probably just stick it in your pocket for now , I wouldn't worry too much . Shouldhave good range .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh , destroying your elephant here .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Uh , herewe have a tiger . Uh {disfmarker} I've always loved tigers . They're just {disfmarker} they're big , they're biggest cats , uh I did a project on cats in the wild when I was a kid and uh it was my favourite cat , just 'causeit was {disfmarker} looks the best , the stripes , orange . My dad used to talk about {disfmarker} he's from Bangladesh so he used to tell me all about them when he was {disfmarker} when I was a kid . And uh they'rejust the most feared of of uh animals in the wild . So uh that's why I like them . Didn't say an anything about me really but {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Excellent , thank you very much . Dave , if you'dlike to uh have a dash .User Interface: Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Um , the monkey , um . The one f uh {disfmarker} in fact this is a {gap} somewhat oblique reference in fact to uh {disfmarker} well my{disfmarker} I have a three uh three y year old daughter who h who who who is affectionately known as Miss Monkey . Um , monkeys have attitude . Which I think is a good thing . And I mean fr {vocalsound} and fromuh from the point of view of sort of the study of human evolution they and other primates are terribly interesting . Um , so I like monkeys . And and th th th th thi thi this one seems to have perhaps more attitude thanmost .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Cheers . Hardly what I'd call the best drawing in the world but it'll do for now . Also not quite as feared as your average tiger , but uh cats are one of myfavourite animals , they're very independent , they're snotty as hell at the best of times , and uh , what can you say , you got to love those qualities in an animal . Right . I think we've all managed to master thewhiteboard there by looks of it , so , on to it . Project finance . As you can see , twelve point five Euros per unit . That's not a terrible lot as far as I'm aware , and we're hoping to sell them for twenty five . If we'reaiming for fifty million Euros we're gonna have to be selling an awful lot of them .Marketing: Oh , that was profiting , that was an amount , so that's the amount made ,Project Manager: Yep .Marketing: okay .ProjectManager: Well , fifty million , and if you're making twelve point five Euros on each one , then , awful lot need to be sold .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay . Now we better actually just get on with the uh themeat of the project . So I'm gonna guess that we've all used remote controls . Any ideas of where you think a new remote control could go into this market ?User Interface: Well , one thing I'm aware of is , th there uhum at the sort of v very high price end of the market there's there's a em emerging market for sort of touch screen L_C_D_ remotes that can be uh programmed in m much more sophisticated ways than sort ofconventional models , so you get the sort of you get um you {vocalsound} you can redesign the interface to your own needs , you can programme in macros , and you get a much greater degree um um I mean you getin these sort of {vocalsound} three in one , five in one , whatevers , but you can get integration between the different uh the the the diff the different things that it's designed to control , to a much greater extent , andyou can have one uh you know one macro to turn the uh you know turn the T_V_ to the right channel , get the uh re uh rewind the tape in the V_C_R_ and get it to play once it's rewound , for instance .ProjectManager: Okay .User Interface: Um b it occurs to me there might be a niche for uh for a remote that aimed towards some of that sort of functionality but using a just conventional push button design . And thereforeputting it into a um well much lower price bracket .Project Manager: Okay , yeah , tha that's true , with the price range we're looking at , going for a touch screen would probably be possibly out of our {disfmarker}UserInterface: Absolutely prohibitive ,Project Manager: yeah .User Interface: yeah .Marketing: Oh .Project Manager: But you think uh again something to control multiple units in uh a simple fashion .User Interface: Yeah , Imean I wouldn't like to say you g {vocalsound} I mean you get ones that you can switch between multiple units , but something that could um operate between multiple units in a more integrated fashion . Some {gap}and ideally something into which it would have some at least limited facility for {vocalsound} um running macros .Project Manager: Would the the idea something along the lines of , one on button would turn on say thevideo recorder , the T_V_ , maybe the sound system as well , all in one go , is that kind of {disfmarker}User Interface: For instance , um let's say oh oh um , or um you know you pr uh you press uh say the play buttonfor the D_V_D_ player and it turns the T_V_ on and onto the right channel as well , umProject Manager: Okay , that sounds like a a good strong idea . Um {disfmarker}Marketing: 'KayProject Manager: {vocalsound}Any takes on this ?Marketing: Well um I've noticed that uh gaming c is becoming quite popular with television , um when I was younger we used to e play games using our cable , using the cable subscribed the cableproviders ,User Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: but our remote controls would get worn out really easily , and {vocalsound} the remote control was not a great kind of keyboar , um keypad , for playing games .ProjectManager: Okay .Marketing: So perhaps one that was more um specialised for game playing or interactive television . They they've recently brought out this new remote control , for people to set their favourite channels, or um to record things . Instead of people entering in what time things start , you simply stri slide a bar to say what time it begins ,Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: and slide another bar to say what time it ends ,you know that's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah I've heard {disfmarker} I've seen the bar-code design before ,Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: yeah .Marketing: Yeah , it's it'staken out the {disfmarker} Y you don't have to be uh really clever to use a remote control . I think for gaming , you know you want you want some big buttons for up , down , left and right , shoot .Project Manager:{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Uh , you wanna be able to change angles in interactive television , so you need buttons to change the television angle , the camera angles and stuff like that .Project Manager:Okay , wellIndustrial Designer: 'Kay .Project Manager: we're beginning to run out of time now , so , we've got a couple of ideas ,Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: we can {disfmarker} we'll have to work fast , um ,alright as you can see we've got thirty minutes until the next meeting , so {vocalsound} we'll have to try and decide on some of the basic functionality , um , how the user interface might work , that'll be a key aspectespecially if the idea of um some kind of macros facility because you have to program it , you have to have a lot of response back , or at least some kind . Um {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager:And we're gonna maybe n try and have to figure outMarketing: What the user wants uh .Project Manager: what the user wants , yes .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Um , right . Has anybody got anything they'd liketo add at this stage , anything they think that might have been missed so far ?Industrial Designer: Well when you're talking about gaming and stuff , do you think they should have some sort of stick on it , rather thanbuttons ?Marketing: Oh . Okay , {gap} .Industrial Designer: Like uh control pads , you know of games , but {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: or is that a bit ridiculous ? {vocalsound}ProjectManager: I I don't see why not , almost everybody is probably used to a console by now , and all of them incorporate small keypads on them , in fact even the mobile phones these days are beginning to use them aswell , so it's probably an interface that most people are used to . UmIndustrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: and that could allow n easy navigation , used as a joystick as well .User Interface: Mm-hmm . The otherkey feature that uh that would be a good idea built into it is t is is to make something you know fairly sort of ergonomic , something that just fits {vocalsound} fits as comfortably as possible into the hand . But of course, uh al al also allows for {gap} the possibility of a more sort of slightly unconventional or attractive uh sha shape for it overall , {vocalsound} .Project Manager: Okay . So ,User Interface: A curve ,Project Manager:small , stylish , and something that's just a little different .User Interface: mm-hmm . Something sort of sort of sl slightly sort of biomorphic in form , {vocalsound} uh which it would need to be to sort of conform to theshape of the hand more efficiently anyway .Project Manager: Okay . That's definitely something that we should be able to do quite easily . I would I would have hoped so anyway . Um , right . I'd say we finish this oneup , we get started , I'll get in , I'll write up what we've um kind of quickly done , and I'll get that out to everybody . Yeah ?Marketing: 'Kay . So .Project Manager: Okay . {vocalsound}Marketing: {gap} .IndustrialDesigner: {gap} .Project Manager: Um , as far as I'm aware we leave the microphones here , um unless we get told otherwise , and just take the laptops with us ."}
{"doc_id":"doc_9","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: All set ? Okay . Cool . Right . So um basically I'm just gonna go over real quickly um some news I've just got from the board on how we're supposed to do with this um {vocalsound} remote control .And then I'm gonna turn over to you guys to make brief presentations um on what you've found and then we'll have a bit of discussion . So basically uh what I've just found out from the board I dunno if you guys gotthis email as well but it needs to be television only . So no {disfmarker} we're not doing D_V_D_ , we're not doing anything else ,Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: it's just gonna be a television remote . {vocalsound}Um it also needs to have the company colours included in it .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um so that's red and black . And it has to have the slogan , case you guys forget the sloganit's , we put fashion in electronics . Um and no teletext . I'm not sure what teletext is but I'm assuming you guys do , so we don't wanna include that um in this particular design . {vocalsound} For reasons that I don'treally know . There's {disfmarker} but it's the board so there you go . So basically um given those guidelines which will have some effect on how we design we'll discuss it later I mean 'cause it's television only we'll beable to change our uh {vocalsound} um well we can s sacrifice more function for a better television remote . {vocalsound} Anyway . So I'm gonna turn over to the Industrial Designer uh to go ahead and make apresentation on {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Okay . So do I unplug this bit here ?Project Manager: Oh , right yeah .Marketing: Gotta plug you in .Project Manager: Yep . Might have to hit function F_ eight but itlooks like it's gonna come up . Yep . Cool .Industrial Designer: Okay . Right . That's page one of my presentation .Project Manager: Brilliant .Marketing: Very nice . For your first PowerPoint it's lovely .IndustrialDesigner: So the uh method . We're gonna have to understand how remote controls work and res uh successfully complete this project . Um remote control works as follows . This is all pretty basic stuff you guys . Umsends message to another system , so there's an energy source involved in that like a battery or solar power , something along those lines , there's an integrated circuit , which is the microchip , um and that actuallycompose the messages and usually the way a a remote control works is it sends infrared bits to another system . A user interface controls the chip , basically that's the casing and the buttons and um accordingly themessages as well . So my findings , um I just did a preliminary study here and uh I found that too much metal in remote design could potentially cause interference with the ability of the remote to send commands .And too much metal can cause remotes to behave unexpectedly by receiving false signals . Um too much metal is used sometimes and people pick up radio signals and the like , and there's also the possibility of theremote catching on fire and injuring the customer , just think of those lawsuits , that'd be really bad .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} 'Kay .Industrial Designer: Therefore I suggest primarilyplastic construction . Um , components . Just some ideas that I had , um , energy source , it's kinda hip to be eco friendly so I thought maybe we could do something with solar power with an alkaline battery backup .Um the user interface , I was {disfmarker} since we can't use metal I was thinking maybe a high grade recycled plastic .Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: The chip , um , silicon based chip I don't really see anyway around that , we can't really be different in that respect . Um , the sender well I'm thinking infrared 'cause it is the industry standard , multi channel , that's a word I made up , I don't really know what it means.Project Manager: 'Kay . Fair enough .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Uh PAL and N_T_S_C_ compatible and uh probably a two hundred foot range .Project Manager: 'Kay .Industrial Designer: Uh and thereceiver of course is any number of electronic devices . Um but in this case it'll only be T_V_s . Um personal preferences , I really think that we should use plastic as opposed to metal , um , the company simply can'tafford this kinds of lawsuitsMarketing: Fine .Industrial Designer: which adm admittedly is gonna come at the cost of a certain aesthetic value ,Project Manager: {vocalsound} Is is there a way that we can use ummodern types of polymers , or mo modern types of plasticsIndustrial Designer: 'cause we were thinking {disfmarker}Project Manager: that maybe do have some kind of aesthetic value um like if a white {disfmarker}like if we talk about like well like on the lapt on these laptops and other ones they use a a pretty nice ,Industrial Designer: Right .Marketing: It needs , yeah .Project Manager: you can do i is there some kind of nice coloder quality plastic that we can work with ?Industrial Designer: Yeah that shouldn't be a problem . Um for example the plastic they have on your laptop there is something that's perfectly possible for us to do .ProjectManager: Okay , okay .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} That's the end of my presentation .Marketing: Cool .Project Manager: Great . Thank you very much Nathan . {vocalsound} Um if next we can have the um UserInterface Developer go ahead and make a brief presentation that'd be great as well .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: S plug yourself in here . Mm . {vocalsound} Um hit function F_ eight real quickly , holddown {disfmarker} Mm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Looks like you're in okay .Industrial Designer: Is it plugged in well ? There it goes . Computer adjusting .User Interface: ThProject Manager: Thereyou go . Sweet .Marketing: There you go .User Interface: Well so . Here we have a uh my technical functions design presentation . Um so a few of the requirements we need here . Uh we n basically need to operate anelectronic device , it needs to be universal um and possibly uh operate several different types of devices although we now uh find that uh that that's no problem .Project Manager: Yeah sorry I couldn't get that g to usebefore .User Interface: Um so some of my findings . Um basically wanna send messages uh to a television set . Um that would be any number of different things uh such as switch on the television , uh switch to thenext channel , that sort of thing , I think we're all quite uh quite uh intelligent and know know what a normal remote control does . Um {vocalsound} now some of the other things I found is a a complicated remotecontrol sorry that we can't quite see my red there very wellProject Manager: Oh yeah look at that .Industrial Designer: Mm . {vocalsound}User Interface: but uh this remote control has many functions um so it can do alot of things but it uh it is quite complicatedProject Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: and most users will find it uh find that they won't use most of the functions because they don't know how to use them and don'twanna take the time to learn how to do it . As you also notice it's quite a boring design . Um . Another remote control , slightly different , it's a simpler remote control uh many less buttons but uh has many fewerfunctions , um m much easier for the user to manipulate and use . Um it also has a bit of a cheap look and it's also quite boring . SoProject Manager: {vocalsound} Nice .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface:my personal preferences .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Revolutionise the idea of uh a remote control . Um so attain the functionality of a complicated device but use a simple formatted displayuh for the user to to work with . And I was gonna add another uh slide here but I didn't quite have time there .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay .User Interface: Um . Just incorporating some of the ideas that wehad previously like uh having multiple face but it's uh {gap} .Project Manager: Great . Thanks for that Ron .Marketing: Right .Project Manager: {vocalsound} 'KayMarketing: Does that mean I'm up ?Project Manager:yep that's you .Marketing: I think so . Okay .User Interface: I can plug you in .Marketing: Oh that would be perfect . Thank you . Slide show up and running .Project Manager: Give it a little bit .Marketing: Or not . Uh .Oh there we go . Perfect . Okay . So this is me . Um basically I was looking through some marketing reports that we've got and we had a usability test where we were actually sort {disfmarker} like watching a hundredpeople {vocalsound} use T_V_ remotes and see what it is that they're using and then they filled out a questionnaire about what they like and what they don't about their general T_V_ remote control practices . Umpretty much through testing we were finding out that most of the time , everybody's used to using changing the channel , turning it on , using the volume , m the majority of the time that's all that's going on , the otherfunctions happen , for some people they're important , but the primary uses are really really basic . Um and so big complicated remotes like one we saw in the last presentation are really not the general public's use ,they're not using a lot of it , they don't need it , they even find it frustrating when there are all those buttons that they don't know what to do with . {vocalsound} And um we also found out that uh fifty percent of ourpeople , their {disfmarker} the worst thing about a remote is how often they lose it . And then they can't find it in the room . So I think what we were talking about with a pager or something , will really come into playwith a lot of these people . {vocalsound} Um there's also a survey about what they liked about remotes ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: and pretty much they all think they're hideous and not very useful ,and the younger demographics are all really interested in voice recognition options . I don't know if that's something we're ready to look into technically , that's up to the design people , but it is s something worththinking about , especially since the younger demographic's obviously the one that's gonna keep growing , so if that's the direction we're headed in it's something to think about . Um but basically it really is the primaryfunctions and getting it to look nice , which are the standards . {vocalsound} So it's a good start for us .Project Manager: {vocalsound} That's great . Thank you Sarah . Right . So umMarketing: Need to unplug this?Project Manager: yep I'll just uh switch that back here .Marketing: Need it back .Project Manager: I'll finish up with just a bit of discussion plan on for the next phase .Marketing: There you go .Project Manager:{vocalsound} Right so I think we've covered most of these important questions through this um {vocalsound} through you guys's presentations um {vocalsound} we've got uh y the Industrial Designer suggests uh orpretty much emphatically suggested that we need to go with plastic . {vocalsound} Um Sarah , she's recommended that we go for simpler functions , so fewer functions um but we need to decide who are we selling thisto , you s your stats suggested that seventy five percent of people under thirty five wanted , thought about voice control ,Marketing: Oh right .Project Manager: {vocalsound} um so do we wanna go for that , or do wewant to go for an older demographic , and my thought is {vocalsound} um {vocalsound} we've got w if we're gonna go for a sleek look I mean we are putting the fashion in electronics {vocalsound} um .{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} We're not catering to the pensioners of the world I don't think so .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yes . So maybe this {disfmarker} we should look into thisyounger demographic . Um . SoMarketing: Right .Project Manager: {vocalsound} uh we need to wonder ah h about how we make it better and smaller and faster um think we're constrained to plastics very well , we'vegot this idea , Ron was saying we need to think about uh revolutionising the way it's looking um ,Marketing: Right .Project Manager: which might be easier given that we're going for simpler function and that we're onlygoing for a telly .Marketing: Uh .Project Manager: Um so um . How {disfmarker} th this voice operation thing is {disfmarker} I think is a good idea um assuming that it's doable , um at least for the basic controls ,maybe we can balance it that way , you know we can see .Marketing: Right .Industrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: Okay you can't say record alias tonight at seven P_M_Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}ProjectManager: but we might be able to say um {vocalsound} volume up .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Right . I think it would be possible to uh combine the locator device and the voice recognition technology.Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: {vocalsound} Oh . That could work . I like that .Industrial Designer: With a simple command like locate . And then it could start to beepMarketing: Yeah . Something very basic.Industrial Designer: andMarketing: Right .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Right .Industrial Designer: therefore be found .User Interface: Sounds good .Marketing: Is that only gonna be within our two hundred footrange then ?Industrial Designer: Oh yeah I think that's very doable .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: The difficulty wh would be in um I think like i you couldn't speak into the remote that you're trying to find . 'Kayyou have something that picks up a voice from far away {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: It's a good point .Project Manager: If it's hidden under the couch {disfmarker} but then again you have thiswee {disfmarker} this wee thing you know that's just a little chip or whatever that has the page button , maybe that could be voice activated too .User Interface: A little sticky pad to stick on top of your uh television.Marketing: Mm .User Interface: And you just say something to {disfmarker} into thatMarketing: Yeah .User Interface: and itProject Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: finds your{disfmarker}Marketing: K {vocalsound}Project Manager: Or an isolated magnet or something like , or you know something that wouldn't interfere I don't know that'd be the technical thingMarketing: Yeah .ProjectManager: but {disfmarker} yeah I like that , I like that , the voice recognition for the paging system .User Interface: {vocalsound} The other thing is we might be able to handle the simplicity of a remote control andkind of put the more complicated things into a voice control . So it could be sold to both the younger market and the older market .Marketing: True .User Interface: And the younger market could use kind of the voivoice control method and the older market might might kMarketing: Making it just an option ?Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: exactly and might consider the older market could use the simpler design with thetraditional buttons and what not .Marketing: Yeah . Right .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah .Industrial Designer: I was thinking uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Are we still thinking about this screen {disfmarker} sorry.Industrial Designer: Oh go ahead .Marketing: Go ahead . The uh if we're gonna do this touch pad screen thing , it would be still , do we know if that's an option technically right now to that ?Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: 'S definitely an option technically . I've looked into uh costs of uh touch screen methods and what not ,Marketing: Okay . Okay .User Interface: they seem to be uh you know almost as cheap as a buttonmethod at this point .Marketing: We're doing okay .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: 'Cause it seems like an interesting option especially because then you could have like your primary screen just be these you knowfour or five basic functions , you can haveProject Manager: Mm . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: menu options or something to have all these other complicated voice recognition , settings , thingsthat you're not gonna use every day and that a lot of people aren't gonna use but it is an option there for this hi-tech market that sort of re is the sleek thing we're going for .Industrial Designer: Gotta wonder though ,if we're adding so much technology to this one remote , are we still gonna be able to meet out twelve pou our twelve fifty Euro you know goal for selling these things .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: True .Worth looking into .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: It seems like , we're not gonna be able to handle all these functions with just one microchip .Marketing:Yeah .Industrial Designer: The microchip is probably the most expensive part of the the whole mechanism .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: True . Yeah .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: So it's justsomething to consider .Project Manager: Absolutely . Mm 'kay um well yeah I guess we'll cross that bridge um in a la slightly later stages of development um but yeah I know , that's perfectly viable question . Mm 'kayum so I'm seeing that we're gonna just basically focus on this young demographic group , aim it at them , but then in a sense that its bells and whistles are available for anybody who wants them but basically we'llmake a sleek simple functioned um uh remote control .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Um I think this voice recognition thing is a we've got a market for it uh I don't think there's too many ,Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: we'd more or less be cornering the market on it as well , we don't have many um .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound} I appear to have lost my microphone . Mm . {vocalsound} Right umwe don't have many people {vocalsound} or there's not very many competitors out there that do that so cool . Um right . I guess we've c we've touched on most of this . The idea of a paging function , a touch screen ,and face plates . Um . The thing with {disfmarker} I see {vocalsound} would there not be a {vocalsound} we'd have to maybe sacrifice the face plates for a touch screen ?User Interface: {vocalsound} Um I'm not surethat's sincerely correct ,Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: I think if you kind of take the example of a mobile phone that uh trying to pass a portion of the device is not interchangeable whereas the surroundingportions are interchangeable .Marketing: Mm . Just the casing .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: We could have the casing , the the face plates .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: Back to the uh the cost{disfmarker} the material . {vocalsound} We have to ask whether we're going to include a certain number of face plates with the package ? That's something I w for {disfmarker} say we're including three or four faceplates , it's gonna drive the cost up .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: And the other question is , if we do include them are we really in a position to evaluate that market ?Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: We haven't done any tests on face plates and whether {disfmarker}Marketing: Right .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: See if there {disfmarker} if there's even interest out there.Project Manager: Okay . Right .Industrial Designer: Off the top of my head it sounds kind of like a gimmick that wouldn't really go anywhere .Project Manager: Yeah 'cause then ha you would have to {disfmarker} whoallMarketing: Mm . Right .Project Manager: it's not like with cell phones like where you have a {disfmarker} you know Nokia model X_ and then ten people make face plates for it , we'd be just our model of pho of tremote control . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Well in the publicity of a face plate on a phone is you have it out and around , it is sort of emblematic whereas you're just sit at home ,ProjectManager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: so unless somebody comes over to watch T_V_ {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm . Mm-hmm . {vocalsound} Yeah .User Interface: Well hopefully some people have people coming tover to w to hang out at your houseProject Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: True . True . True .User Interface: and most people have their televisions in the living room . Uh .{vocalsound}Project Manager: Alright well we can {disfmarker} we can discuss that one further when we think about um whether th when we do costs and so forth , um .Marketing: Yeah . Oh yeah .User Interface:Sure .Project Manager: {vocalsound} True , if plastic is dead cheap and if we're making the whole thing out of plastic anyway um {vocalsound} yeah we'll cross that bridge later um but yeah we will have to evaluatewhat's most important . Um I think we've had a bit of discussion already on this thing , n s there any other questions comments that came up in these presentations ?User Interface: Well have we confirmed that we'regonna go ahead with a uh touch screen um {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah yeah okay . Um {disfmarker}User Interface: Interface ?Project Manager: Yeah I think that would be best . Let's based on what sh on what"}
{"doc_id":"doc_10","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Welcome back .Industrial Designer: I'm sorry to be late .Project Manager: Welcome back everybody .User Interface: Yeah . Thanks .Project Manager: So this meeting agenda will be the detailed designmeeting . And uh opening and uh P_M_s {gap} of the meet minutes , uh prototype presentation from uh Christine and uh Agnes .Industrial Designer: Agnes , yes .Project Manager: Yes and uh evaluation criteria . Thefinance , it's uh from my side , from the management , and uh production evaluation . Then uh closing . So we have forty minutes to discuss and uh finalise and close the product and project and to move further , okay ,so {disfmarker} Okay , let's talk about uh maybe first uh for the prototype .User Interface: Mm , okay .Project Manager: So I handle to {disfmarker}User Interface: I've done a presentation , but it pretty much coverswork that we've both done , so if I'm missing anything , Christine can just correct me .Project Manager: So shall I go to {disfmarker} sorry .Industrial Designer: Uh thank you , so you did a PowerPoint presentation ,good for you . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yep . S Okay , let's go to A_M_I_ .User Interface: {vocalsound} It's not the biggest PowerPoint presentation in the world , but {disfmarker}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} So in two or three or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Three . Um . {vocalsound} No it's {disfmarker}Marketing:Probably . Technical pa I would think .User Interface: think it's the last one . No , then this is {vocalsound} the la yeah , that one , final design .Marketing: Ha .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: It is namedappropriately , you just couldn't see the name .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Um okay , can I have the mouse ?Project Manager: Yes .User Interface: Thanks .Alright , so from {disfmarker} when we were discussing specifying the case in the last meeting , we decided that we wanted an ergonomic shape , the material that we chose was wood , and uh the colour would becustomisable , 'cause you can stain the wood whatever colour . Um , so in terms of function , you have to be able to turn the T_V_ on and off , volume and channel control , menu control , voice recognition control , andwe've incorporated the L_C_D_ screen on the flip panel as part of the design , if we figure out it's too expensive , well then you just take it off . {vocalsound} Um , so {vocalsound} to unveil our lovely product . This isour remote control , with the flip panel as you can see .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: So if you lift up the panel , you can see the lovely yellow L_C_D_ display . {vocalsound} Um , this is actually hard to do .The yellow button you have is the on off button , so it's really big , hard to miss . You have the the red um triangles are the toggles for changing the volume . So up {disfmarker} volume up , down {disfmarker} volumedown . The green are the channel changing . {vocalsound} S And it's one of those very light , very touchable displays . And then you have the numeric pad in the dark blue at the bottom , and on the right-hand sideyou have the access to the menu on the T_V_ , and on the left-hand side you have the the the ability to turn off the voice recognition . So this is pretty much what we had on the white board the last time .ProjectManager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: So .Industrial Designer: Um and uh I could {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} Oh yes .Industrial Designer: Yeah the dUser Interface: Additional feature on the back is thatyou can have your own customised backing and I suppose you could do the same thing on the flip case on the front . So that you can really make this a highly highly customisable remote control .Industrial Designer:We haven't um uh specified where the speaker or the microphone will be placed . That depends on the uh s design of the circuit board inside and uh what room is left um {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah .ProjectManager: I think the microphone is on on the top , uh on the middle , the {disfmarker} under the flip .Industrial Designer: Yes , okay . Uh-huh .Project Manager: So that will be the safe , so p any {disfmarker} the chip{disfmarker} it's not on the chip because you need to have microphone {gap} to {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: No , I mean it depends on the design of the circuit board .Project Manager: Yes .User Interface: But itshouldn't be under the flip either , because you can have the remote control closed , but you still might want to activate it by voice .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh it's it's {disfmarker} Yeah , but uh uh my opinion Ithink it's better under the flip because whenever you want to uh the talk , okay , so then you can speak then you can close it . But if you put it on the on the flip , okay , then uh technical I don't think it's uh feasible ,'cause most of the time you speak then it will be recognised .User Interface: But if you've already got the remote control in your hand you need to open the flip to use the voice , why use the voice , why not just useyour hand ? I mean the whole point of the voice is that if the remote control is sitting there and I'm too lazy to reach over and pick it up , I can just use my voice .Industrial Designer: Maybe I've got my hand in thepopcorn bowl and I'm holding my cup of Coca-Cola in the other hand .User Interface: Yeah . And you don't wanna let go of either one . {vocalsound}Marketing: I don't wanna say . Louder . {vocalsound} Yeah .UserInterface: {vocalsound} I mean it doesn't have to be on the flip , it can be on the side somewhere .Marketing: Can also be on the side .Project Manager: Yeah , the sides maybe is good .User Interface: Yeah .IndustrialDesigner: Mm-hmm .User Interface: So , I mean I can pass this around if anyone wants to {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yes . So it's maybe good idea .Industrial Designer: Yeah , y better you pass it around with anapkin . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} No , because y you can easily put a microphone on the side that would have no problem would haven't been {disfmarker} not be damagedor anything , and it'd be accessible all the time to voice .User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: Yes . Yeah {vocalsound} .User Interface: Yeah , exactly .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager:So it's maybe good idea . S sIndustrial Designer: It's um {disfmarker} It's um {disfmarker}Marketing: Compliments to the artist .Industrial Designer: You need to work on the weight a little bit . {vocalsound}UserInterface: Yes .Marketing: Uh {vocalsound} .Project Manager: Okay . S {vocalsound} I'm fine , I'm satisfiUser Interface: And maybe the shape of the buttons ,Project Manager: I'm satisfied .User Interface: the littleegg shapes aren't the most economical , but {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} We're glad you're satisfied .Project Manager: Of course it's it's it's looks more heo heavy , but I think when it's completely{gap} maybe it's a less weight .User Interface: Yeah . I mean this is plasticene .Project Manager: Yes .User Interface: There's only so much you can do . We could have possibly made it a lot thinner as well .{vocalsound} But {disfmarker} And part of the thing is m a lot of people say that they don't like something that's too light , because they don't feel like they have enough control over it .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: So I mean maybe this is excessively heavy , but I think it needs to have some weight ,Project Manager: Yep .User Interface: it needs to feel like you're still holding something . {vocalsound} So that'spretty much it for our presentation actually .Project Manager: That's your uh prototype model ?User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay , that's good , thank you very much .Marketing: {vocalsound}ProjectManager: So any comments or uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Well , the prototype is is very well within the design and ideas that we've we've talked about on the previous meetings .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing:Now it goes into this next phase as the financial uh marketing uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yes , that uh {disfmarker} So I'll come back to the {disfmarker} {gap} So evaluation criteria , I think uhthat will be good , so then let's come to the finance uh , I have some uh calculations which I made uh as for uh the budget . So here you can uh look like uh the energy {gap} and uh {gap} dynamo and uh kinetic andsolar cells . Uh it's optional , somewhat optional and Ed wants the chip on print , that's what uh we were talking about that .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So then we have sample sensor andsample speaker , then uh we have the wood material , then special colour and push button . So it's uh {disfmarker} actually , our budget was uh twelve point five Euro , but uh it's coming to nine point nine five Euro ,so we are under uh {disfmarker} below the budget , okay , so still we are saving some money . I think it's a good figure . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yes , great I {disfmarker} I'm surprised .Marketing:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Congratulations . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Than thank you . {vocalsound}Marketing: Well we haven't come to mine yet , so {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: Oh , okayUser Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: . It's gonna cost a long way to c you know , cost a lot of money to market it , is it ?Marketing: we're gonna have a bit of difference of opinion , yes .{vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: So maybe it's {disfmarker} for some money we can utilise for our uh marketing , for the sales , okay , and uh {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Well , it just dependson if we're gonna add a {vocalsound} o on this pr provisionary cost analysis , we do not have a L_C_ display . L_C_ display is gonna be very expensive ,User Interface: No we do , but it's not filled in .Marketing: it'sgonna be {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's not .Industrial Designer: Thirty .Marketing: It's not {disfmarker} it doesn't say .User Interface: It's number thirty .Project Manager: Yeah . Yeah .Marketing: We don't havethe price up there ,User Interface: Oh , yeah , yeah ,Project Manager: Yeah . Yeah .User Interface: you're right , sorry , yes .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: okay , so if we add approximately two to three Europer remote , now we're up around about twelve , twelve and a half as to what uh the company had initially uh requested . Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So that means we can put the uh {disfmarker} theL_C_D_ in , yeah .Marketing: Display in . But as far as production um I'm putting up a question because we're talking about profit also , and in mine you'll see uh {vocalsound} the problem with uh our survey , the pthe possibility that how many units can be sold , what percentage of the market , etcetera etcetera because that {gap} has to be taken in into consideration .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Uh this is justproduction cost , it is not uh advertising cost , it's not transportation cost uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yes , so still uh we have twelve point five Euro .Marketing: {vocalsound} And that will inflate quite a bit thecost of the uh {disfmarker} the cost of the unit for the company .Project Manager: Yes . {gap} Yeah , but {disfmarker} Yes . Yep .User Interface: Um-hmm .Marketing: So to come up with what the company wants is afifty million Pound profit , we're gonna have to go a long ways .Project Manager: Yes . This we are talking about one unit , okay , so when it go into the quantity , okay , and the cost will come down .Marketing:{vocalsound} Yes .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Although customisation , because this is being done , you know , the on {disfmarker} on-order basis , it might be uh the the quantity won't m won't uhMarketing:Slightly .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: It's gonna be very hard to reduce .User Interface: Yes .Industrial Designer: the circuit board will b you're right , would be in producing quantity , but the cost of the casewould uh {vocalsound} be fixed at the {disfmarker} Uh you got some pretty cheap labour that can do this case for one Euro .Marketing: That's not bad . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} That's really{disfmarker} that's the cost of the material and lab wow , that's really outstanding .Project Manager: Yep . Yeah . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} But anyhow , still we are under control , okay , so what uh I will do is I willtry to negotiate with the vendors , okay , to get uh the production cost less , okay , so then we can save some money , okay , to put into th our marketing or uh you know the promotions , whatever , okay , so that uh Iwill look after . I will speak to the management and how to get uh you know some more uh cost down .Marketing: If we can go to to my display . And we'll come back to yoursProject Manager: Yes .Marketing: just togive everybody an idea of the market . So now I'm gonna scare everybody out of this project . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: If I'm still here .Project Manager:You're in four ?Marketing: {gap} Yep The four gives me {disfmarker} it's gotta be uh TrendWatch .Project Manager: TrendWatch .Industrial Designer: Is this the same one you did before ?Marketing: No .IndustrialDesigner: Okay .Marketing: It shouldn't beUser Interface: That's {disfmarker} no , I think it's the same one .Marketing: if it's not {disfmarker} it's not the right one . No , no we g no , that's the same one . You have togo back and find another one . Whatever name it popped up under .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Functional .Marketing: Uh functional , try functional , it might not be it either , but we'll see .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}User Interface: It looks like it , there's {disfmarker} {vocalsound} S Yeah .Marketing: Yep , that's it . So we'll go screen by screen .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Although {vocalsound}since uh we need to have some type of idea on a market uh we had independent study that says it {disfmarker} this this market has an availability to absorb eight mi eight million units per year . Okay ? Our internalcompany evaluation puts it between eight to nine million which is approximately the same as the independent study .Project Manager: Yep . {vocalsound}Marketing: So if we continue , we'll look at the findings . Nextscreen . {vocalsound} Which means that uh if we have a target of two million would the company has to take twenty five percent of the market in the first year ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: which is actuallya tremendous amount .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah , no kidding . {vocalsound}Marketing: No kidding , yeah .Industrial Designer: Mayb maybe they already expected something .Marketing: So , if we put aninflated price of fifty Euro at a production cost that cannot exceed twenty-five Euro , okay , we're already in that that price , okay ,Project Manager: Yes .Marketing: with transport , promotion , labour , because we hav{gap} gi included the promotion in the cost , transport for the material to the stores or whatever how however we're gonna break this down between our our retailers .User Interface: Um-hmm .Marketing: Twenty-fivepercent of the market to get to two million units . At two million units , we have to have a profit of twenty-five Euro per unit to get to the fifty million unit Eu Euro profit .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Yep .Marketing:Okay ? So , obviously we w w I just did a run down the evaluation of the form , the fan uh the fancy stylishness of the {disfmarker} of the unit , the ease of use , speech recognition , cost , we've gone through these .Now , the company must evaluate the feasibility of being able to take enough of the market to justify in production . Or we project this over two years , but being that the market changes very very quickly , maybethere's no more interest in buying this thing in eighteen months from now .Project Manager: Yes . Yep . Of course .Marketing: So , now we have to come up with a decision .User Interface: Mm .Marketing: Can thecompany sell two million units ?Project Manager: Yep .Marketing: Can it sell it for fifty Euros ?Industrial Designer: Could could I go to findings ?Project Manager: Yep .Industrial Designer: Uh uh um I would uh like toexplore the possibility of using um alternative um delivery and sales channel which would be um to use the internet for promotion and orderingProject Manager: Yes .User Interface: {vocalsound} I was thinking thesame thing , yeah .Industrial Designer: and then to drop-ship the p product to the customer's residence .User Interface: Directly .Industrial Designer: That way you have no storage , you have no um {disfmarker} youdo have transportation , still have the labour cost ,User Interface: Um-hmm .Industrial Designer: but you don't have the transport to the uh point of sale .Project Manager: Yes .Industrial Designer: The point of sale isonline .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: To the agents .User Interface: Yeah . You can do a shipping centre somewhere , or strategically place shipping centres to minimise distance costs .Industrial Designer:Right , like Amazon . In fact , we should sell through Amazon ,Project Manager: Yes . Or eBay , or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: don't you think ? Or eBay , yeah .Project Manager: Yes .User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: There's an idea .Marketing: {gap}Project Manager: Yeah , that's a good idea .Industrial Designer: Going with um {disfmarker}Project Manager: To impro more profit and uh{disfmarker}Marketing: S Upscale technology .Project Manager: Yeah , yes .Industrial Designer: Ah , we we're do you know , selling a unique product uh . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Well .User Interface:That actually makes more sense if we're gonna make it so highly customisable , 'cause on the web people can look at the different options they have , see maybe what other people have done , what the range ofpossibility as ,Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: There are several companies that have gone that way .User Interface: whereas if you're in a store , you can't {disfmarker} unless you're a highly imaginative person ,you may not really know what it is you want ,Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: whereas on the web , if you have a bunch of pictures , it can sort of trigger ideas and {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .And you can even have an {disfmarker} a movie that you can rotate the object and look at the di the only thing that you're missing really is the weight .User Interface: Yeah . The weight and feel .Marketing: Weight ,the feel of the product , but {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: We're getting used to that . It's not quite like trying on a shoe , but people are getting used to buying thingsonline that they can't touch before buying .User Interface: Yeah . Yeah .Marketing: There are several that have gone through with the watches , too . You can customise a watch , you can see how it is at the f at the endof the production ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh-huh .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: you can change it uh {disfmarker} There's a lot of online that's {disfmarker} that is doing this now .User Interface:Yes .Marketing: And when you're rotating , you'll look behind and look this way uh {disfmarker} it's possible to do with this , maybe there's a possibility of selling more than two million units in one year , which could{vocalsound} you know , feasibili feasibility uh lower the price of the unit .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: We can .Industrial Designer: Great .Project Manager: I don't think that's uhnot possible , it's uh {disfmarker} okay then , l uh let's wait for the production , okay , then uh you can evaluate the product , so how it looks like technically and uh how it look like uh the real .User Interface: Whatturnaround time do we have ?Project Manager: TUser Interface: 'Cause I mean production evaluation can be very very quick or very very long .Project Manager: Oh but {disfmarker} Yes it's it's very quick , of course .It will uh come back in two weeks , okay , it will be ready in two weeks .Industrial Designer: Works for me .Project Manager: For evaluation , okay .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Prototypes , you mean .ProjectManager: Yes , the prototype uh {disfmarker} prototype product evaluation .Industrial Designer: In um {disfmarker} We probably should do some market tests uh once we have the prototypes and do some orders andthings like that and test-market it .Project Manager: Yes . Yes . Yes .Marketing: Well , obviously .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Mm that'd have to be thrown out on the market for people toget an idea ,Project Manager: So you can take a minimum two weeks to a maximum four weeks .Marketing: to see {disfmarker} get get their {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm-hmm . Think minimum two weeks if we're"}
{"doc_id":"doc_11","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Well hi everyone again .User Interface: Hello .Industrial Designer: Hello .Marketing: HelloProject Manager: Um {vocalsound} like before we uh {disfmarker} I have to redo the meetings from{vocalsound} {disfmarker} n th the minutes from the last meetingMarketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: and so here we go . Uh it was discussed in the last meeting uh which was opened by the presentation from theinterface um designer {vocalsound} that uh looks would be very important on this new remoteUser Interface: Designer . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: and um it is to send messages of courseto the T_V_ . It should have nine channel buttons , a next button , volume buttons , subtitle buttons , switch to control features , colour contrast , sharpness etcetera . It should have a memory switch , a mute button incase the telephone rings or something . Uh speech recognition is one of her very f favourite personal uh features she would like see d d to be integrated in this um in this new remote . Um . {vocalsound} Should be childfriendly design with few buttons , colourful maybe with s star shaped or other shaped buttons . Um she uh presented also an oversized remote which she guarantees nobody will ever be able to lose .User Interface:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Um {disfmarker}Marketing: And she was challenged on that point {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} that's right . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Yes .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: But uh her very f personal favourite really she , she would very much like to see a speech recogniser integrated in this remote . The industrial designerum presented her uh {vocalsound} thoughts on the issue . She would like a special case made out of plastic that is very strong , not using any harmful materials , should be recyclable and should be colourful . Shouldhave an integrated circuit board that's highly sophisticated and temperature resistant . She would like to see a timer and or alarm facility integrated . Uh technically this thing would also have a resistor and a capacitor ,diode transistor , resonator , and if possible a rechargeable battery . Uh and of course a circuit board . And how it would works , you press the button , the chip is morse {disfmarker} morse code related relays the{disfmarker} uh to the generat to the generator amplification and uh the circuit board is very inexpensive to build and so she thinks this is a great feature uh to to to consider .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Shewould like uh {disfmarker} this whole thing should be push buttons with a simple chip uh scrolling method is more expensive and not that practical anymore . Should be battery operated and of course she would havethe special cases . The marketing expert uh who has to finally come up with {disfmarker} to to to market this product has been watching the competition , has done some research on the internet and also has used hher personal observations to come up with the fact that such a remote sh should be small , easy to use and it should be eye catching . From her point of view of course one of the most important facts is that we shouldget to market before our competition does . To do that uh maybe one or two features should be developed on which we could dwell on or in other words on which our campaign could be built on . Too many new featuresor too many points would only confuse matter . So we prefer to have one or two features that can be really uh driven home . Um it should have a fruit and vegetable design and should have a soft feel . She feels that'sreally what people want today . And the decision that we took last time was that uh the special feature we would like to see is a speech recogniser , the energy should be battery uh should be on a chip , should betrendy design , compact and strong , and should have buttons . And that concludes the presentation from the last minutes {disfmarker} from the last meeting . Now uh we are ready for the presentation of the prototype.User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: Just the look like , the button part I'll explain .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Uh so this is our {disfmarker} what uh we have made . This is a model of theremote control which we are going to build .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Uh this is us in a snail shape so uh it it is attractiveMarketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: um and it's {disfmarker} it'sblue in colour uh bright and uh it has yellow buttons and all the different colour buttonsMarketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: so it is a {disfmarker} uh uh a {disfmarker} looks-wise it is beautiful .Marketing:Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Uh and also compact in shape .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Uh um and also i it it will be easily fit into {disfmarker} into the hands and you can access all the buttons easily.Marketing: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . Good .Industrial Designer: Yeah ,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: oops , sorry . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} You used to have all the buttons{vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Um yeah and um uh the material which we are going to use for the case is uh plastic and uh w which which is s strong um uh and also uh forthe {disfmarker} Um the material is plastic and uh for the buttons it is uh s soft rubber um and alsMarketing: Oh that's good ,Industrial Designer: yeah .Marketing: no , that's nice and friendly .Industrial Designer: Yeahbecause uh uh you'll be touching the buttons more so it is soft when you touch it .Marketing: Mm-hmm . Mm .Project Manager: Mm-hmm ,Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Andthen um uh for the {disfmarker} for the led , for the light emitting diode it is a fluorescent greenMarketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: and it's a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} it is a bulb like an ordinary infrared.Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: And {disfmarker} and the button {disfmarker} button's part uh will be explained by F Francina .User Interface: Okay .Marketing: Okay .User Interface: Now the um{disfmarker} we decided upon including certain features on our remote . Now these features includes the s um signal emitting uh signal {disfmarker} it's the led or L_E_D_ the infrared .Project Manager: Mm-hmm,Marketing: Yeah , okay , mm-hmm .Project Manager: mm-hmm .User Interface: Now uh we have included the switch on and off button .Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Now we have included another feature thatis the mute buttonMarketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: on the side of the model . Then we have included one to nine buttonsMarketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: for controlling the programmes {disfmarker} thedifferent channels .Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: We have also included two buttons for increasing or decreasing the volume .Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: And we have also included two buttons forscrolling up and scrolling down the programme channels . Now our {disfmarker} our model also contains a button which is called as the menu button .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: What kind of button ?UserInterface: Menu button .Project Manager: Menu ? Uh menu th menu , uh one one .User Interface: Yes , menu {disfmarker}Marketing: Menu button . {vocalsound}User Interface: At the centreMarketing: Mm-hmm .UserInterface: we have included a button which is fluorescent green colour and this is the menu button which will control the colour , sharpness , brightnessMarketing: Mm-hmm . Of the screen . Mm , mm-hmm .UserInterface: of this uh picture . We have also included a button which is called as the swapping button . Now this is uh a special , special feature which we have included . Now this button is an elongated shaped buttonand this is slightly flexible so if it is turned towards the right it will take to the previous channel , if it is turned towards the right it will take to the next channel . It will take the user to the previous and the next channelso this is a swapping button .Marketing: The next channel in the numeric pattern , or {disfmarker}User Interface: No , swapping is if if example you're {disfmarker} you're watching the second channel and then you goto the tenth channel and if you want to go back to the second channel you can swap , this button .Marketing: Yeah , mm-hmm . Mm .User Interface: Yes .Marketing: Okay , okay .User Interface: And at the end , it{disfmarker} this remote has inbuilt voice recogniser which c which will recognise the user's voice and then it'll act accordingly .Project Manager: Okay . Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .User Interface: So this is our proposedmodel .Marketing: Okay .User Interface: Now the marketing expert has toMarketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Tell , yeah .User Interface: give her suggestion whether it'll be sellable {vocalsound} or it'll be costeffective .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay , well um what {disfmarker} what I really like a lot about it is that you can reach the whole thing with one thumb ,User Interface: Yes , yes.Marketing: that you can really hold it in one h you don't need two handsIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Marketing: and it's easily reachable even for somebody with a small hand , yeah ?Project Manager: Yes thebuttons are all raised , right ?Marketing: The buttons are all raisedProject Manager: Are raised , mm-hmm .User Interface: Yes .Marketing: and if you hold it in the centre of your hand you can even reach it over here soyou don't have to turn it around , turn it upside down , move it up , up and down ,Project Manager: Right . Or have two hands to operate it , yeah .Marketing: I really like that .User Interface: Mm .Industrial Designer:Mm-hmm .Marketing: You really did a good job on that , my little designers .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Um and um I like the idea that the on-off button isin a really prominent place . That's that's a really good good thing .Project Manager: Yes , and it sort of sticks up so that you really {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah , that's great .Project Manager: you don't have to g firstgo like oh yeah here it's on and yeah , mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Hmm . Mm-hmm .Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Abs okay .Marketing: The colour's very attractive . Um the um these buttons uh aroundhere are the muteUser Interface: No , these {disfmarker} the front buttons which are here , are the mute buttons .Marketing: and {disfmarker} these {disfmarker} mm-hmm On both sides they're mute ?UserInterface: Yes , yes .Marketing: So you can push either one ?User Interface: Yes .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: So if you're left-handed or right-handed it doesn't matter .Marketing: And this brings the menu up onthe screen ?User Interface: {vocalsound} Pardon me ? This is the menu {disfmarker} yes , yes .Marketing: This brings the menu up on the screen and the orange ones are {disfmarker}User Interface: A the{disfmarker} the {disfmarker} these {disfmarker} these two are th to increase or decrease the volumes ,Marketing: Okay .User Interface: and these two are to uh scroll the programme channels .Marketing: F f okay.User Interface: Scroll up or scroll down the channels .Marketing: Right , very good . Uh it looks mm looks like something I can sell .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay andnow I'm supposed to {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well , I have one questionMarketing: yeah .Project Manager: uh will there be anything written on the buttons , like that people know , or they have to learn that froma piece of paper which button does what ?User Interface: Yes , it will have uh {disfmarker} these buttons will have the numbers and all the rest of the buttons will have symbols .Industrial Designer: Ah . Yeah ,definitely .Project Manager: Will have symbols so that that {disfmarker} that the user really knows you know and doesn't have to first learn it {disfmarker}User Interface: Yes , which can be easily recognised .IndustrialDesigner: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: Yes .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Yeah .Marketing: Good point because we need the symbols 'cause we're going into an international marketwe can't have anything that's language dependent .User Interface: Yes .Industrial Designer: Yeah of course , and also {disfmarker}User Interface: Yes .Industrial Designer: Hmm .Project Manager: Yeah . But anyway itwould ha i i i it has to have some kind of of symbols , text or something so that people knIndustrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: Yes .Industrial Designer: Yeah we can {disfmarker} Text .Marketing: Symbols on it .Mm-hmm , mm-hmm .User Interface: Yes .Industrial Designer: Text that we can have on the case itself ,Project Manager: That's right .User Interface: Yes .Industrial Designer: we can {disfmarker} it will be printed onthe case and symbols as well as the buttons . Yeah .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Okay , yeah just wanted make sure of that mm-hmm .User Interface: And {disfmarker} and one more feature is we we havea holder for this remote which is an oyster shape .Marketing: Mm , 'kay , mm . Mm-hmm .User Interface: A shell shape .Marketing: For the snail , yeah , mm-hmm ,Project Manager: Right , mm-hmm .User Interface:Yes , yes .Industrial Designer: Yeah . So it is {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} we have the snail shell .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Yes , snail shell .Industrial Designer: yeah ,Marketing: He goesright back into his shell .Industrial Designer: yeah {disfmarker} shell .Project Manager: Right .User Interface: Yes .Marketing: Well you know I think we could do something really funny with this too because the snail isknown to be slowIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Marketing: and we could have some sort of little comic effect on our marketing about how this is a rapid snail or something like thatUser Interface: Mm-hmm .IndustrialDesigner: Mm .User Interface: {vocalsound} Y Yes {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah , of course , yeah .Marketing: you know that would , that would really work .Project Manager: Now what , whatare our special features for the marketing ?Marketing: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: That's really the voice recognition that's really unusual {disfmarker}Marketing: I think voice recognition is our big sellingpointIndustrial Designer: Mm . Mm-hmm .Marketing: 'cause nobody else seems to have that in in this price range .Industrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: And then , and then the other thing would basically be shshape or practicality of use .Marketing: YepProject Manager: You know .Marketing: uh well I think that everybody's gonna say their remote control is practical . I think we have to , we have to dwell on on on theappearance .Project Manager: Colours . Mm-hmm .Marketing: We're really gonna have the be theProject Manager: Cutest .Marketing: cutest remote control on the block .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Mm.Marketing: So I think we have to play with the image , play with the snail image um play with the visual and then the voice recognition .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Marketing: I think those are the two things topush . The look and the voice recognition . They're gonna be our two selling points .Project Manager: Okay , now uh having said that {disfmarker}Marketing: I'm supposed to make a little presentation , aren't I ?ProjectManager: No , now this was our evaluation criteria which we uh just have done .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Now we're gonna talk about financing . {vocalsound}Marketing: Ah , but in my instructions I think itsaid I was supposed to go to the board and do something .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Well , there is a production evaluation .Marketing: No ?Project Manager: Is that you ?Marketing: Yeah , that's me .ProjectManager: But that's after the financing .Marketing: Oh , okay .Project Manager: See ? Fi see ?Marketing: Sorry , sorry . Mm-mm .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Um . {vocalsound} Okay , we had looks and voice recognition . Okay now on the financing we bring up the mm there it is . Okay uh energy source we say that's battery , right ?IndustrialDesigner: Mm .Marketing: That's right .Project Manager: Okay , now . So we {disfmarker} I guess we use one .User Interface: Yes .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: What ? T cell or chart you are trying tochange is protected . Well , that's nice . She told me I could just ch change it here and then it would {disfmarker} It doesn't work . Hmm .Marketing: Can you just fill it in in the yellow boxes ? Or {disfmarker}ProjectManager: Oh , okay yeah , okay ,Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: let's see . Okay , one , okay .User Interface: Yes .Project Manager: Oh go away . Um kinetic source so that's {disfmarker} in the energysource that's all we need .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Uh electronics , simple chip on print ? Is that's what we're using ?User Interface: Yes .Industrial Designer: Yeah ,Project Manager: One of those?Industrial Designer: yeah .Project Manager: Come on . Okay , one . Uh regular chip on print . No . That's all we need , the oneIndustrial Designer: No . Yeah .Project Manager: {disfmarker} case , uncurved flat , singlecurved , double curved .Marketing: Well . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: This is a {disfmarker}User Interface: Single curve ? Mm .Marketing: I guess it's double curved .Project Manager: Double curved ? One ofthose ?Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Case materi s supplements . Plastic we said , right ?User Interface: Plastic .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Uh wood , rubber ?Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Rubber , because we're gonna have the soft buttons .Project Manager: Uh but , yes but {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I think uh that is uh f for rubbers that is uh {disfmarker} yeah case material .ProjectManager: That's just for the case material ,User Interface: Is this for the case ? Yes .Project Manager: so special colours though , we having that ,Marketing: Oh okay , the mm-hmm , mm' kay .Project Manager: right?User Interface: Yes .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: And then we have to interface push buttons .User Interface: Yes .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Scroll wheel , no .Integrated scroll wheel , L_C_ display ?User Interface: No .Marketing: No ,Project Manager: Button .Marketing: 'cause we didn't put the clock in it after all , right ?Project Manager: No .Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Uh , button supplement special colour ?User Interface: Speci YesProject Manager: Special form ?User Interface: Yes d we do have special form .Marketing: Yes .Project Manager:And special material , rubber , wood , yes .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay . {vocalsound} Total seven point six whatever that means .Industrial Designer: Uh , I think that's the price .Project Manager:That's the price .User Interface: One two three four five six seven eight nineProject Manager: Mm ?Industrial Designer: Maybe it {disfmarker} is it just {disfmarker} nProject Manager: Eight , eight point two . That's{disfmarker}User Interface: Nine points ,Project Manager: hmm ?User Interface: okay , yes .Project Manager: Eight point two , right ? So , we {disfmarker} looks like we are well within budget .User Interface: Okay.Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Okay . I guess I should save this I suppose , huh ?Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Oops . Uh-huh huh huh .User Interface: On the desktop .ProjectManager: I just tried that . My documents , computer .Industrial Designer: AMI .Project Manager: My compu Ah oh here it is , yes .Industrial Designer: AMI should forProject Manager: Okay , fine . Save . Okay good , sothat's the good news . We gonna be popular .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um . So that uh {disfmarker} I think financing was prettysimple .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Now we would like to have a presentation by the marketing expert on production evaluation .Marketing: Okay , I'll take my file down so you can bring it up . 'Kay shouldbe able to get it now . 'Kay , why don't you move just to the next slide right away .Project Manager: You wanna go to the next slide ?Marketing: Yeah right away .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Okay , well uhobviously my method for uh s m the marketing of this thing is first to ask the big question , will it sell ? And I think we should show this prototype to people from various age and socio-economic groups and see aboutany fine tuning that {disfmarker} maybe little things we haven't thought of .User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Marketing: We can't accept every suggestion of course , but maybe we just need to get"}
{"doc_id":"doc_12","qid":"","text":"Industrial Designer: Now what .Project Manager: 'Kay , hello everybody . Uh , I guess you all know what is it about , you all received the email , I guess . Uh , we are actually doing this meeting to start a new projectwhich is about designing a remote control . So I'm going to be the project manager of this uh project . And uh so I'm {disfmarker} present myself . I'm Fabien Cardinaux and uh I I guess you can present yourself . So Idunno , you can starts .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay , so my name is Petre {gap} . You can call me Petre {gap} , or Peter if you like . I don't care {gap} .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Uhmy name's Bob Mor .Project Manager: And you are ? In the project ?Industrial Designer: Uh , in the project I'm supposed to be the technic .Marketing: Oh , sorry .Project Manager: {gap}Marketing: 'Kay . So my name'sBob Morris . I'm the Marketing Expert for this project .Industrial Designer: Bob ,Marketing: Bob yeah .Industrial Designer: okay .User Interface: My name is Hamed Getabdar , and uh I'm going to be Interface Designerin this project .Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: So , uh , so today we are doing a short meeting to present the project , so um We are gooding we are going to present the tool we are {vocalsound} we aregoing to use during all this project . We are talking about the project plan , and we are going to to discuss about st our first ideas and so on , and , yeah . So we have around twenty five minutes to do this meeting . Um. So what is the goal of this project ? Is to design a new remote control . So it should be , of course , new and original , and um it should be trendy , and user friendly . That mean it's a very challenging project , and uhuh . So w it's {disfmarker} we will try to do our best , and hopefully come with something very new and that people want to buy . So , um {disfmarker} So what's uh what are we going to do during this all this project ?So it's more like we are going to do inv individual work all in o in o our specialities and we are going to meet each other quite often to discuss and to find a good way . Um . Yeah and everything is {disfmarker} will belike this . Um so now we are going to to get used t to to the tools we are going to use all {disfmarker} during all this project . So we can try to use uh the whiteboard here . So {gap} uh .Industrial Designer: Okay.Project Manager: For example we can try to write what is our our favourite animal and write the f our favourite characteristics about it . Mm . Uh {vocalsound} . So uh {disfmarker} {gap} So I will ask you all to do thesame .Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: Just to get used to the whiteboard .Industrial Designer: So probably I would try to try to draw the animal . Well sh should I draw the picture of the animal ?ProjectManager: Yeah , yeah , you can draw the picture , of course {vocalsound} .Industrial Designer: I I th I think I should .Marketing: Yeah go ahead .Industrial Designer: Okay , so . Um {vocalsound} . Okay , American ,um . Um . I would use the bird . So I tried to sketch it out . I had to first uh write it down because I am not absolutely sure if I can draw it , but ah . Can you recognise it {vocalsound} as a bird ?Project Manager:{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay {vocalsound} it's your turn to {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay , okay . {vocalsound} So I think my favourite animal would be a c a cat .Project Manager:Oh .Marketing: That's its head .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Um I probably like cats the most because they're cuddly and furry and uh playful .Project Manager:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {gap}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay .User Interface: I dunno if I should go with this {gap} {vocalsound} .Industrial Designer: Oh it's okay .Project Manager:{vocalsound}Marketing: Thanks . {vocalsound}User Interface: If it is enough line .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Maybe put it upUser Interface: {vocalsound} I'm sorry .{vocalsound}Marketing: {disfmarker} Put it a Maybe put it on the desk or something .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I should get used to the tool , so .Marketing:{vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Okay .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Oh just wait {gap} a little bit . C could we put it here , to make it as straight as possible ?User Interface: {vocalsound}{vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Ah probably not .User Interface: {vocalsound} They should be remote .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay , it{disfmarker} it works like this .Marketing: Uh , that's better .User Interface: Okay , thanks .Marketing: Your lapel microphone's fallen off .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Are you left-handed ?UserInterface: No .Industrial Designer: Oh , pity {vocalsound} .User Interface: Okay . Should I clean ? {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Okay , I think like horses uh because they arestrong and beautiful , so if I want to write it here , I think I can . {vocalsound} Oh {vocalsound} .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Never mind . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Ah , it's maybe better if youleave it .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah . Yeah . Maybe we should just continue .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah , don't worry about it . {vocalsound}User Interface: {gap}Project Manager: {gap} , no worry.Marketing: No .Industrial Designer: {gap}User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: You won't draw them , or ?Project Manager: You can draw it , if you want . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}UserInterface: I dunno if I can .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Just try . I would like to see how it looks like .User Interface: {vocalsound} Okay .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound} It may be like a cow or I dunno , whatever .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} I'm not good very good in drawing . Okay , so this is very {vocalsound}{disfmarker} It's a bird , I think . I dunno what is it . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: No , I think it's clear .User Interface: {vocalsound} Four . Okay . Mm-hmm . Mm . Yeah . I'm shameful {vocalsound}ProjectManager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Oh that's good , it's good .Industrial Designer: It's okay . It's in it's indeed beautiful .Project Manager: Good .Marketing: Yeah , and strong . {vocalsound}ProjectManager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound} Okay .Industrial Designer: Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: Bob . Have to remember it . Bob .Project Manager: So good um {disfmarker} So , let's talk about money . Uh we are going to to sell {disfmarker} we want to sell uh this remote control for twenty five EuroEuro . And uh our expected profit will be around fifty million Euro . And uh we are trying to to have a market all around the world . So {gap} n not only for Switzerland , but for the world . Uh . So , um . The{disfmarker} We expect a production cost of maximum uh twelve point fifty Euro .Industrial Designer: Per unit , I guess .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah , of course .Industrial Designer: Y oh okay .ProjectManager: Um , so we can start today to have a first idea of what we want to do what are our experiments with remote control , and any idea ? So , if you have some experience , good or bad , with remote controls youcan share it and say what you f what is your idea . Anything .Industrial Designer: Okay .Marketing: Well , from experience , um I've had remote controls in the past that have had very {disfmarker} they've had lots andlots of buttons and they've been very small , and it's been very hard to to to use , because there's so many buttons , and you know it's very hard to see which buttons do what , and the buttons are very small and veryhard to press . Um and and normally you only every use , you know , on a T_V_ remote you only ever use , mostly , you know , f four or f six buttons . Um .Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: Oh .Marketing: Soit's frustrated me in the past , th that .Industrial Designer: Okay , I have also some points uh . Maybe two points . Uh first would be that in current remote controls there is no back light {vocalsound} , so if you are ifyou are uh playing with this in the dark room it's it's probably worth to to have something like uh back light .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: And maybe it could be also dependant on the the amount of oflight in the room , so that if if it's in the day it doesn't need to be back lighted because it works on the battery , so . So something like this . And the second thing , f second point from me would be that in a normalremote control there is uh {disfmarker} there are two buttons for volume control .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: But I prefer like a potential-meter or something like .Marketing: Ah , okay . Okay.Industrial Designer: You know , some slider or {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: Not just two discrete buttons for volume ,User Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Okay , n {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: but something which {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Yeah .Marketing: Is that because the {disfmarker} of the discrete volume levels , or is thatIndustrial Designer: Yeah , but I can reach{disfmarker} In uh one second I can mute it down , or or make a high volume .Project Manager: {gap} Are you not afraid that if you take your remote control you can move the slide and it could {gap} {disfmarker}the the volume can go up very quicklyMarketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Ah , n .Project Manager: and it can {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: If it drops to the floor then it starts to scream {gap} .Project Manager:Yeah , also if y when you take the the remote control , for example on the table , you take it and you push the button and everything is very loud , andIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah , f It depends what whatyou feel about that .Project Manager: you have a heart attack {vocalsound} . Okay .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah but we can we can think of these things afterwards , but if {gap} you have some morenotes on that .Project Manager: Yeah so you can {disfmarker}User Interface: Uh I {disfmarker} Yeah ,Project Manager: Do you have something ?User Interface: just a simple experience . I uh I prefer um remotecontrol working with radio waves , because remote control working with infra-red rays you should you should you should keep it in a specific direction and then try it hard to tune {gap} .Project Manager: Yeah , that'strue . Yeah without obstacles and {gap} .Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: Okay . Let's continue .Industrial Designer: Um .Project Manager: I have a meeting in five minutes , so maybe we should hurry.Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Um . So we will close uh this meeting .Industrial Designer: Okay , just a second . {gap}Project Manager: So we will have a next meeting in uh thirty minutes .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Um . Uh . The {disfmarker} So I will ask you to do some work . Uh the the interface interface developer will work on the on the design of the remote control , start to to have new ideaandIndustrial Designer: Which i which is Hamed , {gap} ?Project Manager: read about {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Okay .User Interface: Mm .Marketing: He's the Industrial Designer ? No , you're the IndustrialDesigner .Industrial Designer: Uh I am the Technical Designer ,User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Oh .Industrial Designer: I dunno which one , uh v .Marketing: Yeah ,Project Manager: Industry and {disfmarker}Oh .Marketing: I think that's the first . I_D_ . Industrial Designer .User Interface: Uh-huh .Marketing: And the second one is the User Interface Designer .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: User Interf Okay .Marketing: And then last one's marketing , which is me .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Okay , so I'm the first one .Project Manager: So , um {disfmarker}Marketing:{gap}Project Manager: For the User Interface Designer , which is Hamed um ,User Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: uh , you are going to work on the technical functions of the remote control .Industrial Designer:I see .User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: And for the Marketing uh Manager , I dunno , okay , which is Bob , uh you are going to try to to find the user requirements f uh for the remote control . Um , you willreceive by email uh the specific instructions and uh by your personal coach .Industrial Designer: {gap} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {gap} Sign .Project Manager: Yep finished . So I see you in thirty minutes .Marketing:Great , okay .Project Manager: {gap}Industrial Designer: Okay .User Interface: Okay , thanks .Marketing: Thanks guys . Bye .User Interface: Bye .Project Manager: Thank you .Industrial Designer: {gap} Uh . {gap}"}
{"doc_id":"doc_13","qid":"","text":"PhD E: Yeah .Professor B: Um , so . If we can't , we can't . But uh we 're gonna try to make this an abbreviated meeting cuz the {disfmarker} the next {disfmarker} next occupants were pushing for it , so . Um . So .Agenda is {disfmarker} according to this , is transcription status , DARPA demos XML tools , disks , backups , et cetera andGrad H: Does anyone have anything to {pause} add to the agenda ?Professor B: OK . Shouldwe just go in order ? Transcription status ? Who 's {disfmarker} that 's probably you .Postdoc A: I can do that quickly . Um I hired several more transcribers , They 're making great progress .Professor B: Seven?Postdoc A: Seve - several , several .Professor B: Oh .Postdoc A: And uh {disfmarker} and uh , uh I 've been uh finishing up the uh double checking . I hoped to have had that done by today but it 's gonna take onemore week .Grad H: UmPhD D: I gGrad H: as a somewhat segue into the next topic , um could I get a hold of uh the data even if it 's not really corrected yet just so I can get the data formats and make sure theinformation retrieval stuff is working ?Postdoc A: Certainly . Yeah I mean , it 's in the same place it 's been .Grad H: So can you just {disfmarker} Oh , it is .Postdoc A: Uh - huh . No change .Grad H: OK . Just{disfmarker} So , \" transcripts \" is the sub - directory ?Postdoc A: Uh {disfmarker} Yes . Uh - huh .Grad H: OK . So I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll probably just make some copies of those rather than use the ones that are there.Postdoc A: OK .Grad H: Um and then just {disfmarker} we 'll have to remember to delete them once the corrections are made .Postdoc A: OK .Professor B: OK , whPhD D: I also got anot a short remark to thetranscription . I 've uh just processed the first five EDU meetings and they are chunked up so they would {disfmarker} they probably can be sent to IBM whenever they want them .Grad C: Cool .PhD F: Well the secondone of thosePhD D: Yep . It 's already at IBM ,PhD F: is already at IBM .PhD D: but the other ones {disfmarker}PhD F: That 's the one that {pause} we 're waiting to hear from them on .PhD D: Yeah . Yeah .Postdoc A:OK .PhD F: Yeah .Postdoc A: These are separate from the ones that {disfmarker}PhD F: As soon as {disfmarker}Postdoc A: I mean , these are {disfmarker}PhD F: They 're the IBM set .PhD D: Yep .Grad H: It 's thisone .Postdoc A: Excellent . Good .PhD F: Yeah . And so as soon as we hear from Brian that this one is OKGrad H: Is my mike on ? Yeah .PhD F: and we get the transcript back and we find out that hopefully there are noproblems matching up the transcript with what we gave them , then uh we 'll be ready to go and we 'll just send them the next four as a big batch ,Postdoc A: Excellent .PhD F: and let them work on that .Grad H: Andso we 're doing those as disjoint from the ones we 're transcribing here ?PhD F: Yes , exactly .Grad H: OK , good .PhD F: We 're sort of doing things in parallel , that way we can get as much done a at once .Grad H:Yeah , I think that 's the right way to do it ,PhD F: Yeah .Grad H: especially for the information retrieval stuff . Anything else on transcription status ?Postdoc A: Hm - mmm .Grad H: OK .Professor B: DARPA demos , wehad the submeeting the other day .Grad H: Right , which uh {disfmarker} So I 've been working on using the THISL tools to do information retrieval on meeting data and the THISL tools are {disfmarker} there 're twosets , there 's a back - end and a front - end , so the front - end is the user interface and the back - end is the indexing tool and the querying tool . And so I 've written some tools to convert everything into the right forfile formats . And the command line version of the indexing and the querying is now working . So at least on the one meeting that I had the transcript for uh conveniently you can now do information retrieval on it , do{disfmarker} type in a {disfmarker} a string and get back a list of start - end times for the meeting ,PhD F: What {disfmarker} what kind of uh {disfmarker} what does that look like ? The string that you type in .GradH: uh of hits .PhD F: What are you {disfmarker} are you {disfmarker} are they keywords , or are they {disfmarker} ?Grad H: Keywords .PhD F: OK . I see .Grad H: Right ? And so {disfmarker} and then it munges it topass it to the THISL IR which uses an SGML - like format for everything .PhD F: I see .Professor B: And then does it play something back or that 's something you 're having to program ?Grad H: Um , right now , I havea tool that will do that on a command line using our standard tools ,Professor B: Yeah .Grad H: but my intention is to do a prettier user interface based either {disfmarker} So {disfmarker} so that 's the other thing Iwanted to discuss , is well what should we do for the user interface ? We have two tools that have already been written . Um the SoftSound guys did a web - based one ,Professor B: Mm - hmm .Grad H: um , which Ihaven't used , haven't looked at . Dan says it 's pretty goodProfessor B: Mm - hmm .Grad H: but it does mean you need to be running a web server .Professor B: Mm - hmm .Grad H: And so it {disfmarker} it 's prettybig and complex . Uh and it would be difficult to port to Windows because it means porting the web server to Windows .Professor B: Mm - hmm .Grad H: Uh the other option is Dan did the Tcl - TK THISL GUI front - endfor Broadcast NewsProfessor B: Yeah .Grad H: which I think looks great . I think that 's a nice demo . Um and that would be much easier to port to Windows . And so I think that 's the way we should go .Postdoc A: I{disfmarker} Can I ask a question ? So um as it stands within the {disfmarker} the Channeltrans interface , it 's possible to do a find and a play .Grad H: Mm - hmm .Postdoc A: You can find a searched string and play .So e Are you {disfmarker} So you 're adding like um , I don't know , uh are they fuzzy matches or are they {pause} uh {disfmarker} ?Grad H: It 's a sort of standard , text - retrieval - based {disfmarker} So it 's uhterm frequency , inverse document frequency scoring .Postdoc A: OK .Grad H: Um and then there are all sorts of metrics for spacing how far apart they have to be and things like that . So it {disfmarker} it 'sPostdoc A:It 's a lot more sophisticated than the uh the basically Windows - based {disfmarker}Grad H: i it 's like doing a Google query or anyth anything else like that .Postdoc A: OK .Grad H: So i it uses {disfmarker} So it prproduces an index ahead of time so you don't {disfmarker} you 're not doing a linear search through all the documents . Cuz you can imagine if {disfmarker} with {disfmarker} if we have the sixty hours ' worth you do{disfmarker} wouldn't wanna do a search .Postdoc A: Hm - mmm . Good .Grad H: Um you have to do preindexing and so that {disfmarker} these tools do all that . And so the work to get the front - end to work wouldbe porting it {disfmarker} well {disfmarker} uh to get it to work on the UNIX systems , our side is just rewriting them and modifying them to work for meetings .Professor B: Mm - hmm .Grad H: So that it understandsthat they 're different speakers and that it 's one big audio file instead of a bunch of little ones and just sorta things like that .Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD G: Mm - hmm .PhD F: So what does the user see as the resultof the query ?Grad H: On which tool ?PhD F: THISL .Grad H: The THISL GUI tool which is the one that Dan wrote , Tcl - TKPhD F: Yeah .Grad H: um you type in a query and then you get back a list of hits and you cantype on them and listen to them . Click on them rather {comment} with a mouse .PhD F: Ah .Professor B: MmmPhD F: So if you typed in \" small heads \" or something you couldGrad H: Right , you 'd get{disfmarker}PhD F: get back a uh uh {comment} something that would let you click and listen to some audio where that phrase had occurredGrad H: something {disfmarker} You {disfmarker} you 'd get to listen to \"beep \" .PhD F: or someProfessor B: That was a really good look . It 's too bad that that couldn't {vocalsound} come into the {disfmarker}Grad H: You couldn't get a video .PhD G: Guess who I practice on ?Postdoc A: Atsome point we 're gonna have to say what that private joke is , that keeps coming up .Professor B: Yeah . And then again , maybe not . So , {vocalsound} uh {disfmarker} Yeah , that soun that sounds reasonable .Yeah , it loo it {disfmarker} my {disfmarker} my recollection of it is it 's {disfmarker} it 's a pretty reasonable uh demo sort of format .Grad H: Right .PhD F: Yeah that sounds good .Grad H: And so I think there 'd beminimal effort to get it to work , minimallyPhD F: That sounds really neat .Grad H: and then we 'd wanna add things like query by speaker and by meeting and all that sort of stuff . Um Dave Gelbart expressed someinterest in working on that so I 'll work with him on it . And it {disfmarker} it 's looking pretty good , you know , the fact that I got the query system working . So if we wanna just do a video - based one I think that 'llbe easy .Professor B: Mm - hmm .Grad H: If we wanna get it to Windows it 's gonna be a little more work because the THISL IR , the information retrieval tool 's {disfmarker} um , I had difficulty just compiling them onSolaris .Professor B: Mm - hmm .Grad H: So getting them to compile on Windows might be challenging .Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD F: But you were saying that {disfmarker} that the uh {disfmarker} that there 'sthat set of tools , uh , Cygnus tools , that {disfmarker}Grad H: So . It certainly helps .PhD F: Uh - huh .Grad H: Um , I mean without those I wouldn't even attempt it .Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD F: Yeah .Grad H: Butwhat those {disfmarker} they {disfmarker} what those do is provide sort of a BSD compatibility layer ,Professor B: Mm - hmm .Grad H: so that the normal UNIX function calls all work .Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD F:And you have to have all the oGrad H: Um , But the problem is that {disfmarker} that the THISL tools didn't use anything like Autoconf and so you have the normal porting problems of different header files and th somethings are defined and some things aren't and uh different compiler work - arounds and so on . So the fact that um it took me a day to get it c to compile under Solaris means it 's probably gonna take me s significantlymore than that to get it to compile under Windows .Professor B: How about having it run under free BSD ?PhD E: Well what you need {disfmarker}Grad H: Free BSD would probably be easier .PhD E: All you need to dois say to Dan \" gee it would be nice if this worked under Autoconf \" and it 'll be done in a day .Grad H: That 's true .PhD D: Uh {disfmarker}PhD E: Right ?Grad H: Actually you know I should check because he did port itto SPRACHcorePhD E: Right .Grad H: so he might have done that already .PhD E: I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I wouldn't be surprised .Professor B: So {disfmarker}Grad H: I 'll check at that {disfmarker}Professor B:But it would {disfmarker} what would serve {disfmarker} would serve both purposes , is if you contact him and ask him if he 's already done it .PhD E: What I {disfmarker}PhD F: How does it play ?Grad H: Yeah , right.Professor B: If he has then you learn , if he hasn't then he 'll do it .Grad H: Right .Postdoc A: Wow .PhD F: I hope he never listens to these meetings .Grad H: That 's right . So , and I 've been corresponding with Danand also with uh uh , SoftSound guy , uh {disfmarker}Postdoc A: It 's amazing .Professor B: Yeah .Grad H: Blanking on his name .Professor B: Tony Robinson ?PhD F: Tony Robinson ?Grad H: Do I mean Tony ? I guessI do .Professor B: Yeah .PhD E: James Christie .Grad H: Or S or Steve Renals .Professor B: Steve Renal - Steve Renals .Grad H: Which one do I mean ?PhD E: Steve Renals is not SoftSound , is he ?Professor B: No.Grad H: My brain is not working ,Professor B: OK .Grad H: I don't remember who I 've been corresponding with .PhD E: Steve wro i it 's Ste - Steve Renals wrote THISL IR .Grad H: Then it 's Steve Renals .Professor B:Oh , OK .PhD E: OK .Grad H: So uh just getting documentation and uh and f and formats ,Professor B: Yeah .Grad H: so that 's all going pretty well ,Professor B: Assuming we 're {disfmarker}PhD E: Right .PhD F: Whatabout issues of playing sound files @ @ between the two platforms ?Grad H: I think we 'll be OK with that . Um we have {disfmarker} Well , that 's a good point too .PhD E: Here 's a {disfmarker} here 's a crazy idea{pause} actually .Grad H: I don't know .PhD E: Why don't you try and merge {pause} Transcriber {pause} and THISL IR ? They 're both Tcl interfaces .Grad H: Well this is one of the reasons {disfmarker} This is the{disfmarker} one of the reasons that I 'm gonna have uh Dave Gelbart {disfmarker} Gelbart {disfmarker} Having him volunteer to work on it is a really good thing because he 's worked on the Transcriber stuffPhD E:Right .Grad H: and he 's more familiar with Tcl - TK than I am .PhD E: And then you get {disfmarker} they {disfmarker} then you get the Windows media playing for free .Grad H: Well that 's Snack , not {disfmarker}not Transcriber .PhD E: Right . But the point is that the Transcriber uses Snack and then you can {disfmarker} but you can use a {disfmarker} a lot of the same functionality and it 's {disfmarker}Grad H: Yeah , yeah ,I mean , I {disfmarker} I think THISL {disfmarker} THISL GUI probably uses Snack . And so my intention was just to base it on that .PhD E: Yeah . Well my thought was is that it would be nice {disfmarker} it would benice to have the running transcripts um eh you know , from speaker to speaker .Grad H: And if it doesn't {disfmarker}PhD E: Right ? Do you have {disfmarker} you have , you know , a speaker mark here and aspeaker mark here ?Grad H: Right , we 'll have to figure out a user interface for that , so .PhD E: Right . Well that {disfmarker} eh my thought was if you had like Multitrans or whatever do it . Or whatever .Grad H:Yeah . It might be fairly difficult to get that to work in {comment} the little short segments we 'd be talking about and having the search tools and so on . We {disfmarker} we can look into it ,PhD E: Yeah .Grad H: but{disfmarker}Professor B: The thing I was asking about with , um , free BSD is that it might be easier to get PowerPoint shows running in free BSD than to get this other package running in {disfmarker}Grad H: Yeah , Imean we have to {disfmarker} I have to sit down and try it before I make too many judgments ,Professor B: Yeah .Grad H: so uh Um My experience with the Gnu compatibility library is really it 's just as hard and justas easy to port to any system . Right ? The Windows system isn't any harder because it {disfmarker} it looks like a BSD system .Professor B: Mm - hmm .Grad H: It 's just , you know , just like all of them , the \" include\" files are a little different and the function calls are a little different .Professor B: Right .Grad H: So I {disfmarker} it might be a little easier but it 's not gonna be a lot easier .Professor B: OK . So there was that demo ,which was one of the main ones , then we talked about um some other stuff which would basically be um showing off the {disfmarker} the Transcriber interface itself and as you say , maybe we could even merge thosein some sense , but {disfmarker} but um , uh {disfmarker} and part of that was showing off what the speech - non uh nonspeech {comment} stuff that Thilo has done {pause} s {pause} looks like .PhD D: Yeah.Postdoc A: Can I ask one more thing about THISL ? So with the IR stuff then you end up with a somewhat prioritized um {disfmarker} ?Grad H: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm ,Postdoc A: Excellent .Grad H: ranked .PostdocA: Excellent . Yeah .PhD G: So another idea I w t had just now actually for the demo was whether it might be of interest to sh to show some of the prosody uh {vocalsound} work that Don 's been doing .Professor B:Mm - hmm .PhD G: Um actually show some of the features and then show for instance a task like finding sentence boundaries or finding turn boundaries . Um , you know , you can show that graphically , sort of whatthe features are doing . It , you know , it doesn't work great but it 's definitely giving us something .Professor B: Well I think at {disfmarker} at the very least we 're gonna want something illustrative with thatPhD G: Idon't know if that would be of interest or not .Professor B: cuz I 'm gonna want to talk about it and so i if there 's something that shows it graphically it 's much better than me just having a bullet pointPhD G: Yeah.Professor B: pointing at something I don't know much about ,PhD G: I mean , you 're looking at this now {disfmarker}Professor B: so .PhD G: Are you looking at Waves or Matlab ?Grad C: Um yeah I 'm starting to andum {disfmarker} Yeah we can probably find some examples of different type of prosodic events going on .PhD G: Yeah defProfessor B: S so when we here were having this demo meeting , what we 're sort of coming upwith is that we wanna have all these pieces together , to first order , by the end of the monthPhD G: IProfessor B: and then that 'll give us a week or so .Grad C: Ooo . The end of {disfmarker}PhD G: Oh , the end of thismonth or next month ? Oh , you mean like today ?Grad H: This month .Professor B: JuPhD G: Oh .Professor B: June . June . June .PhD G: Next month .Grad H: Oh sorry , next month .Grad C: Yeah .PhD G: Sorry .GradH: Today isn't June first ,PhD F: There 's another one .Grad H: is it .Professor B: Uh {disfmarker} that 'll {disfmarker} that 'll give us {disfmarker} that 'll give us a week or so to uh {disfmarker} to port things over tomy laptop and make sure that works ,PhD E: Exactly .PhD G: Sorry .Professor B: yeah .PhD G: I think , I mean eh where {disfmarker}Grad C: Yeah , I mean I 'll be here .PhD G: Yeah if d if Don can sort of talk towhoever 's {disfmarker}Professor B: Yeah .PhD G: cuz we 're doing this anyway as part of our {disfmarker} you know , the research , visualizing what these features are doingProfessor B: Yeah .PhD G: and so either{disfmarker} it might not be integrated but it {disfmarker} it could potentially be in it .Professor B: Yeah . Well , this is to an audience of researchersPhD G: Could find some .Professor B: so I mean , you know , to let sthe goal is to let them know what it is we 're doing .PhD G: I mean it 's different .Professor B: So that 's {disfmarker}PhD G: I don't think anyone has done this on meeting data so it might be neat , you know .ProfessorB: Yeah . Good . Done with that . XML tools ?Grad H: Um . So I 've been doing a bunch of XML tools where you {disfmarker} we 're sort of moving to XML as the general format for everything and I think that 'sdefinitely the right way to go because there are a lot of tools that let you do extraction and reformatting of XML tools . Um . So yet again we should probably meet to talk about transcription formats in XML because I 'mnot particularly happy with what we have now . I mean it works with Transcriber but it {disfmarker} it 's a pain to use it in other tools uh because it doesn't mark start and end .PhD F: Start and end of each{disfmarker} ?PhD D: Yeah .Grad H: Uh {disfmarker} Utterance .PhD F: Utterance . Just marks {disfmarker} ?Grad H: So it 's implicit in {disfmarker} in therePhD F: Yeah .Grad H: but you have to do a lot ofprocessing to get it .PhD F: Right . Right .Grad H: And so {disfmarker} and also I 'd like to do the indirect time line business . Um but regardless , I mean , w that 's something that you , me , and Jane can talk aboutlater . Um , but I 've installed XML tools of various sorts in various languages and so if people are interested in doing {disfmarker} extracting any information from any of these files , either uh information on usersbecause the user database is that way {disfmarker} I 'm converting the Key files to XML so that you can extract m uh various inf uh sorted information on individual meetingsGrad C: Cool .PhD D: Yeah .Grad H: andthen also the transcripts . And so l just let me know there {disfmarker} it 's mostly Java and Perl but we can get other languages too if {disfmarker} if that 's desirable .PhD G: Oh , quick question on that . Is{disfmarker} do we have the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the seat information ? In {disfmarker} in the Key files now ?Postdoc A: Mm - hmm .Grad H: The seat information is on the Key files for the ones whichPostdocA: Ah .PhD G: Oh in {disfmarker} For the new oneGrad H: it 's been recorded ,PhD G: OK .Grad H: yeah .Professor B: Seat ?PhD G: Great . Sea - yeah .Grad H: Where {disfmarker} where you 're sitting .Professor B:Oh ! Not {disfmarker} not the quality or anything . No .PhD D: nGrad H: Right .Professor B: OK . I see .Grad H: \" It 's pretty soft and squishy . \"Professor B: Yeah . Yeah .PhD G: Alright .Professor B: OK .PhD G: OK.Grad H: Oh , but that might just be me . Um .PhD G: Alright .Professor B: That 's more seat information than we wanted .PhD G: Never mind .PhD E: Hmm .PhD G: I 'm just trying to figure out , you know , whenMorgan 's voice appears on someone 's microphone are they next to him or are they across from him ?Professor B: Yeah .Grad H: Maybe we should bleep that out .Professor B: Mmm , yeah .PhD F: Wait a minute"}
{"doc_id":"doc_14","qid":"","text":"Lynne Neagle AM: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee this morning. We've received no apologies for absence. Can I ask if there are any declarations of interestfrom Members, please? No. Okay, thank you. Item 2 this morning is the Children (Abolition of Defence of Reasonable Punishment) (Wales) Bill: Stage 2 proceedings. I'm pleased to welcome Julie Morgan AM, DeputyMinister for Health and Social Services; Karen Cornish, deputy director, children and families division at Welsh Government; and Emma Gammon, lawyer for Welsh Government. Thank you for attending this morningand welcome to the committee. I'm just going to run through the procedures that we're going to follow now. As I said, the purpose of the meeting is to undertake Stage 2 proceedings on the Children (Abolition ofDefence of Reasonable Punishment) (Wales) Bill. For these proceedings, Members should have copies of the marshalled list of amendments, the groupings of the amendments for debate and the voting order for theamendments. The marshalled list of amendments is the list of all amendments tabled, marshalled into the order in which the sections appear in the Bill. The order in which we consider amendments will be the defaultorder—that is, sections 1 to 3 and the long title. You will see from the groupings list that amendments have been grouped to facilitate debate. However, the order in which they're called and moved for decision isdictated by the marshalled list. Members will, therefore, need to follow the two papers, although I will advise Members when I call them whether they're being called to speak in the debate or to move their amendmentsfor a decision. There will be one debate on each group of amendments. Members who wish to speak in a particular group should indicate to me in the usual way. I will call the Deputy Minister to speak on each group. Forthe record, in accordance with the convention agreed by the Business Committee, as Chair I will move amendments in the name of the Deputy Minister. For expediency, I will assume that the Deputy Minister wishes meto move all of her amendments, and I will do so at the appropriate place in the marshalled list. Deputy Minister, if you do not want a particular amendment to be moved, please indicate to me at the relevant point inproceedings. In line with our usual practice, legal advisers to the committee and the Deputy Minister are not expected to provide advice on the record. If Members wish to seek legal advice during proceedings, please doso by passing a note to the legal adviser and, if necessary, we can adjourn. My intention is to try to dispose of all amendments during today's meeting. I will call a short break in proceedings at an appropriate time, ifnecessary. Okay, thank you. So, we will proceed, then, to group 1, which is the duty to promote public awareness. The lead amendment in the group is amendment 1 in the name of the Deputy Minister. I moveamendment 1 in the Deputy Minister's name and call on the Deputy Minister to speak to her amendment and the other amendments in this group.Julie Morgan AM: Thank you very much, Chair. My amendments 1 and 4will place a duty on Welsh Ministers to provide information and increase awareness about the change in the law to ensure that the public are made aware of how the law will change as a result of the defence ofreasonable punishment being abolished and that physical punishment would be prohibited once the Act commences. I tabled these amendments in response to this committee's recommendation—this was arecommendation from this committee in the Stage 1 report, so I have responded to that. I've already made a commitment to a high-intensity awareness-raising campaign over approximately six years from RoyalAssent, should the Bill be passed. I've considered amendments 1A to 1E, which have been tabled by Janet Finch-Saunders, and which relate to the duty to raise awareness. Amendment 1A introduces a reference topublic understanding. We don't think, actually, that this adds anything to the Government amendment, which already mentions awareness. It makes the awareness-raising duty open-ended with no time limit, which isnot necessary. By commencement, messaging around the change in the law will be embedded. The awareness-raising campaign will continue for a number of years. Therefore, an ongoing duty referring specifically tothe law change would not be required. I understand, of course, that the awareness-raising campaign needs to be comprehensive, well planned and to reach out to all those people and all those communities who need tobe aware of the law change, and understand how to respond to it. But I don't think it's helpful or necessary to highlight specific groups, such as visitors to Wales, on the face of the Bill—that's the approach taken inamendment 1E—as it risks placing too much emphasis on certain groups at the expense of others. In relation to children, the committee will know that I'm fully committed to children’s rights, and that Welsh Ministersare already under a duty to have due regard to the rights of children whenever they exercise their functions. An additional due regard requirement, such as the one set out in amendment 1D, relating specifically to theneed to promote awareness among children is not needed. This would be part and parcel of the Welsh Government approach to putting children’s rights at the heart of our policy making. Similarly, I don't think it'snecessary for the Bill to set out specifically the topics that need to be covered in the awareness-raising campaign, as is suggested in amendments 1B and 1C. That level of detail, I don't think, is for the face of the Bill.Information required about parenting support will be considered by the parenting expert group, under the auspices of the Bill’s strategic implementation group, working with my officials and the expert stakeholder groupon the awareness-raising campaign. And, really, their thinking should not be constrained in any way by specifications on the face of the Bill. I think we always need to bear in mind that what the Bill does is remove adefence to an existing criminal offence; it does not create a new offence. And in this context, it doesn't make sense for this Bill to contain a provision requiring the provision of information about how a person may raiseconcerns if it appears to them that a child is being physically punished. As I set out in my letter to this committee responding to recommendation 15 on this point, safeguarding is everyone’s business, and, as now, thepublic have a role in highlighting to relevant services if they are concerned about a child. I'm asking for the support of Members for amendments 1 and 4, and I ask Members to reject amendments 1A to 1E because thiswould place unnecessary provisions on the face of the Bill.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you, Deputy Minister. Are there other Members who wish to speak? Janet Finch-Saunders.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you, Chair.I wish to speak to amendments 1A to 1E, which relate to the Deputy Minister's amendment on the duty to promote public awareness. While we believe it is absolutely imperative that the public are made aware of thiscontroversial change in the law, the Deputy Minister's amendment lacks a number of key points that the committee were actually keen to address at Stage 1. An important thread runs throughout each and everyamendment that I've tabled within this group—that of a sustained awareness campaign, which not only stretches beyond the implementation of the Bill, but serves as a duty for future administrations. Amendment 1A:primarily, amendment 1A changes amendment 1 to include the promotion of understanding changes to the law. I don't think it's enough for the Welsh Government to say that the public should be made aware of thecoming into force of section 1 and that a public awareness campaign needs to be sustained until the Welsh Government's objectives have been achieved. Despite the fact that it is intended to change behaviour, theconsequences of this law are far greater than that of organ donation or prohibiting smoking indoors. Instead of an opt-out system or a civil offence, this law will remove a defence for parents, information on which couldbe there on their records for the rest of their lives, potentially separate parents, and could affect employment chances. As such, whilst we agree with the necessity of the awareness campaign, it is important too that theWelsh Government take stock and ensures that parents are not penalised due to a weak awareness campaign. The witnesses we heard before this committee also noted the necessity of ensuring that the publicunderstands—Lynne Neagle AM: Janet, Dawn is asking if you'll take an intervention.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Yes.Dawn Bowden AM: I just wanted to know—could you give us examples of any other piece of legislationwhere there's been indefinite public awareness campaigns once it's been passed?Janet Finch-Saunders AM: There's a lot of legislation. The first Assembly term when I was here—Dawn Bowden AM: Yes, what I'masking—Janet Finch-Saunders AM: I'm trying to respond—Dawn Bowden AM: What I'm asking for is: can you give us specific examples of where there have been indefinite public awareness campaigns runningindefinitely past the enactment of a piece of legislation?Janet Finch-Saunders AM: The very first term that I was an Assembly Member, we passed 25 pieces of separate legislation. Even today, as I sit here, the publicare not aware of many of those pieces of legislation. This particular piece of legislation will have a profound effect on the parenting of children in Wales. So, therefore, I think there is a necessity for both children andparents to become involved, and I shall speak now—Dawn Bowden AM: With respect, Chair, that's not the question I asked.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: —to my amendments.Lynne Neagle AM: I can call you in thedebate, if you'd like to make a more substantive contribution on this. Yes.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: The witnesses who we heard from before this committee also noted the necessity of ensuring that the publicunderstands the implications. And that's what we're talking about here, Members—the implications of removing this defence. Strikingly, the Office of Police and Crime Commissioner for Gwent stated the following: 'thepotential for public resistance to the Bill through misunderstanding or confusion over it implications may pose the largest barrier to its implementation.' If you are intent on removing the defence of reasonablepunishment, it is therefore not unreasonable to ensure that law-abiding parents fully understand the ramifications of this Bill. Additionally, the committee found that while the current Welsh Government's intention todeliver a public awareness campaign was beyond doubt, future Governments may have less of a commitment. This places further weight on the fact that the Welsh Government should be under a duty to promoteawareness and understanding of the Bill beyond its commencement. Furthermore, the Children (Equal Protection from Assault) (Scotland) Bill quite clearly notes that, under section 2, the Scottish Ministers must takesuch steps as they consider appropriate to promote public awareness and understanding about the effect of section 1 on the abolition for the defence of reasonable punishment. Therefore, I would be grateful if theDeputy Minister can respond as to the reasons why the Welsh Government has deviated from this course of action in their amendment. [Interruption.] Should our amendment be agreed—Lynne Neagle AM: Are youtaking an intervention?Janet Finch-Saunders AM: No. I'd rather crack on, to be honest.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. I can call you in the debate, Hefin.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Should our amendment to be agreed, we alsorequest that a printing change be made to ensure that the new heading reflects promoting awareness of the changes to the law made by section 1. Amendment 1B: amendment 1B is in line with the committee'srecommendation 9, which stated that, as part of a public awareness campaign, there should be details about the support available to parents to use alternatives to physical punishment when disciplining their children.During evidence at Stage 1, the witnesses we saw before the committee raised serious concerns about harder-to-reach groups who needed to be made aware of removing the defence. For example, Children in Wales,Action for Children and Play Wales stated that some families and communities may be harder to reach with information and support. Welsh Government needs to make sure that they receive the information they need.Now, while the Deputy Minister states that she would work hard to ensure that harder-to-reach groups receive this information, a duty to provide information on alternatives to physical punishment would ensure thatfuture Welsh Governments would maintain a successful awareness-raising campaign. I note the Deputy Minister accepted the recommendation, through our amendment, but this does not explicitly include a duty toprovide details about support for parents. As will be expanded upon later, the Deputy Minister has relied upon the 'Parenting: Give it Time' campaign to be delivered alongside awareness raising. However, this is only anonline resource and she must be clear about what other avenues will be available to parents who do not have access to the internet or are part of harder-to-reach groups. Amendment 1C: amendment 1C supports thecommittee's recommendation 15 that explains that the Welsh Government should ensure clear advice is provided on what people can do if they have seen or learned of a child being physically assaulted. We urged, atStage 1, that although many professionals were already under a duty to report concerns about physical punishment, regardless of the Bill, other witnesses raised concerns that it could create the potential for claims ofabuse that are unfounded. In particular, some were worried that children, who may not realise the implications of reporting, could make allegations that are actually untrue. While we would expect the awareness-raisingcampaign to include the consequences of false accusations, this could also be reflected among adults, if the public are not sufficiently made aware of how they can report and in what situations they can report a case ofassault.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. I've got several speakers. I've got Suzy Davies first, then Dawn Bowden.Suzy Davies AM: Thank you very much, Chair. Thank you Minister, and thank you, Janet, for that. I thinkit's worth just pointing out at this stage that the majority of the amendments that are being made and articulated by Janet there are based on committee recommendations, and those recommendations were made aftertaking evidence from the public at large, but also you as well. So, that suggests that, at that stage, we weren't reassured by the offer that you were making because we felt the need to put these recommendations intoour report. Now, I recognise that you've moved some way on some of these amendments, and we'll been talking about that through the course of the debates on other groups. But the one thing to bear in mind here isthis is legislation, now—that means that this is the instrument of the Assembly, not of Government, and if this Assembly feels that the face of the Bill is unclear on the minimum requirements of a public awarenesscampaign, then we have the right to suggest the things that we would like to see in that public awareness-raising campaign. The list that Janet has given is a minimum. The reason these have been tabled individuallyand independently is that some may be acceptable where others may not be, so it will be disappointing to hear that you're rejecting them all, and the reason they need to go on the face of the Bill is that, if you aregoing to introduce specifics via regulation, at the moment we have no reassurance about how you're going to do that—about what input the Assembly, on behalf of our constituents, could have in designing that publicawareness-raising campaign. Unless you accept some amendments in other groups, that is the position with this Bill: the influence of the Assembly will be zero over the content of an awareness-raising campaign. Interms of it being non-time limited, I think the amendment has been tabled in the way it has not to oblige you to an everlasting, never-ending campaign of awareness raising. But if you bear in mind that, seven yearsafter the introduction of this Bill, there's going to be some reporting on the effectiveness of the Bill, what is the point of doing that if you don't then have an obligation, should the reports require it to be necessary, tocontinue promoting the changes in the law? I accept that that can't go on for centuries, but to actually limit it to two years on an issue that is so sensitive, and which has a reach beyond our boundaries, I think isgenuinely a mistake. Finally, you mention that safeguarding is everyone's business. I think that's true, but I think Janet Finch-Saunders was right to say that members of the public, ordinary individuals, notprofessionals, will need assurance that they're doing the right thing. The amendment as listed is not even there to encourage people to do that, although that can be read in that way, but it is to help them be certainthat they are doing the right thing. If this is going to be up to the individual, as you've said, and the committee itself wasn't reassured that individuals would know what to do, perhaps I can ask you to consider at Stage3, if you're going to reject this amendment, how you can reassure members of the public that, if they are going to intervene on the back of this law, they're making things better, not worse.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you,Suzy. Dawn.Dawn Bowden AM: My comments, really, relate to ongoing awareness-raising campaigns, which I think all of us would want to see, and would appreciate in any changes in legislation. My point, really, is thatwe have a plethora of legislation that this Assembly has passed in the last 20 years, and I'm not aware of any legislation where, on the face of the Bill we have ongoing awareness-raising campaigns on an indefinitebasis. It seems to me that, for some reason, you seem to be wanting to take a completely different approach to this piece of legislation. From what the Deputy Minister is saying—and perhaps I will get some clarity onthis—there will be an amendment to the legislation that will say that we have an awareness campaign. That awareness campaign can be the subject of consultation with interested parties in terms of what needs to beincluded in it. It could also, I assume, Deputy Minister, be an awareness campaign that can be written into a set of guidance for future use. But the point I'm trying to make is that I don't believe that any piece oflegislation requires ongoing and indefinite awareness-raising campaigns, and particularly in relation to visitors to Wales. Again, we have other pieces of legislation in Wales that are not applicable in the other parts of theUK. I am not aware that there is a necessity for awareness-raising campaigns with visitors coming into Wales on the raft of the other pieces of legislation that we have that they don't. And similarly, when we go to visitcountries that have different legislation, we don't necessarily know what legislation we're going into when we visit that country—you just go there and you accept that you go to a different country and you abide by theirlaws. So, my key point, Chair, is just the necessity of an ongoing, endless awareness campaign being written onto the face of the Bill.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you, Dawn. Hefin.Hefin David AM: My comments followlogically from Dawn Bowden's comments, particularly in relation to amendments 1D and 1E. What you would be doing is that this Senedd, if this was on the face of the Bill, the duty on Ministers, would be putting theduty on Ministers in law beyond the life of the fifth Senedd, into the next Senedd term, and putting that duty on those newly elected Ministers after that, which, in principle, would be against the principles ofbinding—Lynne Neagle AM: Hefin, are you taking an intervention from Suzy?Hefin David AM: Yes, happy to.Suzy Davies AM: When you've finished your point.Hefin David AM: I'm happy to take it now, because I wasgoing to sum up by agreeing with the point you made, actually.Suzy Davies AM: I'd love that. You referred to this potentially binding Ministers in future Assemblies; at the moment, we've got an implementation periodand a five-year reporting period that takes any reporting on this Act into the Assembly after next. I'm wondering if you're going to have any comments on that when we come to the amendment to change that lateron.Hefin David AM: Well, when we get to that amendment, I'll make comments if I feel it necessary. But at this point in time, we're talking about amendments 1D and 1E, and particularly in relation to 1D and 1E it just"}
{"doc_id":"doc_15","qid":"","text":"Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay . Oh I totally {disfmarker} Yeah 'cause I moved it . {vocalsound} 'S put it over here . Then we don't have to worry about it .User Interface: {vocalsound} Ready for this ?Project Manager:All set ? Cool . Alright , it is PowerPoint time . I've done more PowerPoints in this particular experiment than I've ever done in my life before this experiment {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah{vocalsound} .Project Manager: which is kind of fun .User Interface: {vocalsound} Oh man . {vocalsound}Project Manager: So uh here we have our detailed design meeting where we will um look at the prototype andum {vocalsound} {disfmarker} right so um , I finally figured out what this whole second bullet point is about in my {disfmarker} that my coach was sending to me . It means I'm supposed to read the minutes from theprevious meeting .Industrial Designer: Oh really ?Project Manager: I think . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay .Marketing: Huh .Project Manager: I don't know . Otherwise it's just saying I'm thesecretaryMarketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: and I'm {disfmarker} therefore I'm taking the minutes , s so just to go um {vocalsound} just real briefly to go over minutes from last meeting , uh , Iwill open them slowly , no ? Wait for it , wait for it . {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah that's not you . {vocalsound}Project Manager: No . That's how the {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager:{vocalsound} Wait .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: This is , this is very high-powered stuff here , double-clicking , there we go . So um basically the moral of the story from our last minute uh{disfmarker} last meeting was that {vocalsound} um we that we had meetings from {disfmarker} uh we had presentations done by the Industrial Designer , uh or from Nathan , and Ron and from Sarah about what wecan do here um and what sort of limitations we're operating with um {disfmarker} uh excuse me what limitations we're operating under , what kind of risk we'd be looking at with some of the various approaches wewere discussing and we essentially came to the conclusion that we should develop a remote with uh voice recognition , I_E_ that had a vaguely non-remote like shape um because you didn't really need to use it as aremote since you could just use your voice . That would include some {disfmarker} mostly just the simple design features for a television operation but with a slide or a fold-out bay for more advanced functions forusers . Um , and uh the uh uh the U_I_D_ and the I_D_ were asked to go ahead and start developing a prototype for us to look at . {vocalsound} So . That's sorted , back to the main {vocalsound} meet here , um , goahead and take it away guys .Industrial Designer: Well . Uh , we have assembled our prototype , um . What's to be said about it ? Um , we took into account a lot of the things that we went over in the last meeting , um. Some of the most important things to consider are that we decided not to go for the touch screen which you can seeProject Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: and opted for some very large buttons for theprimary functions , um . This is going to be the on off buttonProject Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and we have these buttons to go through the channels um and then two volume buttonsdown here , d uh we decided those were the most important uh buttons . And then , for the more advanced uh functions there is a slide out panel here um and you can see that there are lots of other things going on .But this actually can slide back in and provides a very nice aesthetic when it's all put away , um . As far as the uh whole visible light thing , we decided to go with the multiple colours coming out ,User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: Ah .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Nice . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: why not ?Marketing: {vocalsound} Fair enough .User Interface: {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: Of course , if that's annoying for some people that function can be turned off . Um .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Perfect .Industrial Designer: Go ahead .User Interface: No it's important to {vocalsound} wetalked a quite a bit about uh you know the the interchangeable uh faces and what we've done here is come up with a bit of a natural look hereMarketing: Mm .User Interface: um f we call it fruityMarketing: Right.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: if you will . Um . Right , um ,Marketing: Appropriate , okay .User Interface: of course that's uh interchangeableIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: and uhI think it would be desirable for the uh for the regular product in the in the in the in the first packaging to be something a little bit more subduedMarketing: Mm 'kay .User Interface: but this is kind of something that canbe doneMarketing: It is an option .User Interface: um and as you can see on the television there uh we have the uh voice detector device um on the top there .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Oh , right .IndustrialDesigner: That's this here .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Ah . I see .User Interface: Um . So that that will work quite well with with regard to finding this uh contraption . Um , what other things do we seehere , well , um if you give it a touch it does have actually a bit of a spongy feel ,Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: um , so I think that will work well with regards to our market . Um and uh let's see , wellclearly there's gonna be some more colours and what not available . {vocalsound} Um uh do you have anything else to add to that ?Industrial Designer: Um I worried about the materials , it is uh {disfmarker} theentire thing is covered in a rubber coating so it's very durable uh , it's not gonna break like some types of plastic that's dropped . Um , and of course as you can see and if you touch it it does have that nice squishy feel.User Interface: It's actually important to note that the television , uh you know if there's an earthquake or anything like that , that i it actually is edible inside .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Fact , I dunno if you noticed , but I wrote the uh the company's name on the telephone screen ,Project Manager: Oh well doneyeah , yeah oh okIndustrial Designer: I thought that was kinda nice .Marketing: Nice .Industrial Designer: This was actually an apple on the inside .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: This {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Do we need to worry about um rot factors ? {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Um {vocalsound} it's encased in a new uhtype of uhMarketing: Oh okay , there's preservatives involved ,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: polymer yeah .Marketing: we don't need to worry ,Industrial Designer: We got abit ahead of ourselves ,User Interface: It's fine .Marketing: okay .Industrial Designer: I know we're not talking about making televisions at this point or anything like that , but {disfmarker}User Interface: Hmm.Marketing: Fair enough .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Edible televisions , it's a wave of the future . {vocalsound}Marketing: No but {disfmarker}User Interface: It's pos a possible new product .Marketing:{vocalsound} It's a couple years off at least . Okay .User Interface: Um , but I think that's {disfmarker} I think that sums up the main features of our {disfmarker} of the remote ,Project Manager: Brilliant .IndustrialDesigner: Right .User Interface: um I dunno if you guys have any questions or f whether that uh {disfmarker} whether we need to worry about any uh other marketing areas or anything of that nature . Um , did wecome in under budget ?Industrial Designer: Uh we did , yeah . This cost {disfmarker} well to put this into um production , we're looking at about {disfmarker} what was our goal ? It was twelve fifty Euro um and thisactually came in at about eleven ninety nine .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Um , so I was quite pleased with that .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: One thing that we didn't do um{disfmarker} obviously we had a choice with the buttons whether to use scroll buttons or standard rubber buttons , but we just went for a classic rubber button and um since we did thatMarketing: Mm .IndustrialDesigner: we didn't have to use as many microchips which was quite nice and that's what helped keep the cost down .Project Manager: Brilliant .Industrial Designer: So even though it has a lot of modern technology ,um for example the voice recognition ,Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: in a lot of ways it's just a simple remote and um I think if we shopped around for other manufacturers um we might be able to get evencheaper .Marketing: Okay .User Interface: Mm . {vocalsound} Did we talk about the voice recognition uh option ?Industrial Designer: And {disfmarker} Oh no , we haven't talked about that yet have we ?UserInterface: So uh so uh yeah on the back here you all noticed this area here which is actually the voice recognition uh uh consoleProject Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay .User Interface: and uh I think it's nicelydesigned into the into the overall look .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: Um , but basically the voice recognition uh incorporates um the latest designs that our research team has been able to cufw uh come up with .Basically uh quite similar to the coffee maker um design that we were talking about earlierMarketing: Mm 'kay .User Interface: and um , I think that uh has given a proven um {vocalsound} ease of use and what not.Industrial Designer: Hmm . Yeah .User Interface: And uh allows features like the remote actually talking back to the user um , so .Marketing: Right .Project Manager: Cool .Industrial Designer: Any questions ?ProjectManager: No , noMarketing: {vocalsound} Do we have um other , for lack of a better word , skins ? Covers ?Project Manager: I think that's {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: In playnow or are those ones gonna be developed later once we see how the couple we have g go or ?Industrial Designer: Um , do you wanna answer this oneMarketing: Do we know where we stand on that yet ?IndustrialDesigner: or do you want me to answer it ?User Interface: Well we didn't quite have enough material uh {vocalsound} .Marketing: Oh I wasn't expecting a prototypeIndustrial Designer: Yeah , yeah .User Interface: OhI see ,Marketing: I just didn't know {disfmarker} if you guys had any in mind yet . {vocalsound}User Interface: right , um .Industrial Designer: Um , well {vocalsound} as you can see this is just a most superficial layerand um it'd be very easy to put another layer of something else like {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay . Just veneer really ,User Interface: Right .Marketing: yeah . Okay .User Interface: Actually this bottom red ring herejust unclipsMarketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: and then you put a a new a new uh a new plate on top of that .Marketing: And the whole thing {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: OkayUserInterface: So I mean there are {disfmarker} I {disfmarker}Marketing: RightUser Interface: we definitely priced out a spongy {disfmarker} even spongier non-natural look um materialsMarketing: Yeah . There's{disfmarker} Okay .User Interface: which I think worked out fine . We also continued on with the ideas that f following uh Apple's colour schemes with the kind of the uh light orange and the green .Marketing: Mm 'kay .Okay , very cool .Industrial Designer: It's not it's not quite a a face plate , it's more like a pseudo-face plate because it's simple enoughMarketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: that in the factory it could {disfmarker} wecould very easily put a different one on it , it locks into place such that , you know , it's pretty permanent but at the same time , if we wanna go the other way it's just a matter of a couple of adjustments and we couldgo the face plate wayMarketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: if you know what I mean .Marketing: Yep . It's still an option if we need it .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Very cool , nice job .Project Manager: Right ,yeah thanks guys that's very , very good work . I like it , brilliant . {vocalsound} Um , {vocalsound} what we need to discuss now is the finance of it , um I got me {disfmarker} you've got {disfmarker} you provided anumber that actually sounds quite nice . Um the trouble is I was just given this by finance . Um , it's a spreadsheet of the parts {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Oh .Project Manager: and I've just tentatively put inwhat it's going to look like um .Industrial Designer: Ooh .Project Manager: I'm just gonna clear this out real quickly , but it looks like {disfmarker} So we'll just {disfmarker} if we can just itemize what's in here , we'vegot this {disfmarker} it's a solar cell thing right ?Industrial Designer: RightProject Manager: With a back-up battery ?Industrial Designer: uh we didn't really touch on that but it it's in there ,Project Manager: With the baokay . UmIndustrial Designer: yep .Project Manager: and {disfmarker}User Interface: The voice recognition area actually doubles as uh as the solar cell area . Yeah .Project Manager: Clever , clever , well done . Um soI guess that would mean we've got a bit of a um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} It's a s a speaker and a sensor at the same time isn't it ?Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah . It's just making use of the same space and thesame materials ,Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Okay . Um and the case , it's more of a single-curved case , I guess would be that {disfmarker} be the general {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah , one bigcurve I guess you could say .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um and we've got a rubber skin material basically throughout . Um . Push button interface um with this other drop-down so maybewe've got two push button interfaces don't we ?Industrial Designer: Yeah , mm-hmm .Project Manager: Um . And um a special {disfmarker} I guess it's uh {disfmarker} we've got a sort of a wood materi a rubbery typematerial that {disfmarker} throughout ,Industrial Designer: Yeah , special .Project Manager: yeah .Industrial Designer: And s I guess you have to mark special colour and special form as well , don't you ? 'Cause it i it isvery unconventional ,Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah , it's it's quite unique .Industrial Designer: I like to think of it as unconventional .Project Manager: I like it , yeah it's {disfmarker} So it looks likeMarketing: Mcome in at sixteen ?Project Manager: a bit over budget , um .Industrial Designer: Oh . Huh , doesn't match up does it ?User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So what we could doperhaps , a simple fix would maybe to switch away from the solar cells {vocalsound} um or take out the back-up battery . Uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: How do you feel about that ?User Interface: I mean I thinkthat uh if we're talking about it being one of our main selling features , being environmental and without the batteries and what not , although it does still have a battery so I'm not sure that {disfmarker} you know whatthe sell is on that .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: I mean we could take we could take the battery out of it you see and it'd probably work ninety nine per cent of the time but you're gonna have to set up a callcentre for that one per cent of the time when people are calling and saying oh look my remote isn't workingUser Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: what am I gonna do?Marketing: Mm k .Industrial Designer: People'd be real upset . I think in the long-run it's better to keep the battery ,Marketing: True .Industrial Designer: it's hard to scrap the whole cell battery idea 'cause that's sointegral to the theme that we have .Project Manager: Hmm . {vocalsound} What's difficult , we have all these things integral to the um to the design of it that we just can't back out of now ,Marketing: Nah .ProjectManager: it would have to be {disfmarker} seems like we'd have to go back to square one in a way . Um if we were gonna try to undo one bit we'd probably have to undo most of it , um {disfmarker}User Interface:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound} Although we don't wanna get rid of the whole environmental {disfmarker} I mean obviously the solar cell is a big piece of the way we're marketing thisas like a natural , new thing , but honestly if we cut that one piece out we're actually coming in under budget if I've done my math correctly .Industrial Designer: Hmm .User Interface: I mean you might be able to swayme on the idea that {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} our main selling point could be already this voice recognition thingMarketing: I mean {disfmarker}User Interface: I mean that's what sets us apartMarketing: Which ,it's {disfmarker}User Interface: right ?Marketing: yeah that's what setting us into this young market , I mean that's where we started from , so {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I don't know , and I mean you know perhapswhen the cell technology comes down in price we can bring that back into the game but it looks like at this point that may be out of our league .Industrial Designer: Right .User Interface: And the reality is you know , forme from an ideological stand point , I'd like to stick with the uh the solar cell , but I h kind of have to throw myself in the in the business structure model hereMarketing: Right . Yeah .Industrial Designer: Right .UserInterface: and uh you know I think I think that I think that we need to come to a compromise hereProject Manager: It's either or .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: and maybe move ahead with the project , without thesolar cell .Industrial Designer: Yeah . I guess we might have to do that .Marketing: I think unfortunately that's our best option .Industrial Designer: It's the only way we're gonna get below our uh goal isn't it ? Of twelvefifty .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: 'Cause we can't remove the push buttons 'cause they're {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah , {vocalsound} .Marketing: {vocalsound} It {disfmarker} kind of{disfmarker}Project Manager: um and we can't get rid of the uh {disfmarker} I mean removing the {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} Savings .Marketing: yeah .Project Manager: changing the case wouldn't beso much of a {vocalsound} mm-mm , um , nor would changing the case materials .Marketing: Mm-mm .Project Manager: Um . So yeah that looks like to be the only thing . So that would be the {disfmarker}Marketing:Yeah .Project Manager: it's a major change but {disfmarker} Yeah . Alright , soIndustrial Designer: Gotta do what you gotta do .Project Manager: we're in agreement on that .Marketing: Unfortunately I think we are.User Interface: No , I think that was a good compromise you brought forward Sarah .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Right . Moving along swiftly . Um , so I guess now we just go to the project evaluation which I willallow Sarah to take over .Marketing: That would be me . Um cord ?Project Manager: Ah of course , sorry .Marketing: No problem .Project Manager: Whoosh .Marketing: Can you reach ,User Interface: Yep .Marketing:that would be great , thank you .Project Manager: {vocalsound} That'd be great {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I didn't even do that one onpurpose either ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: damn . Okay , um , basically I was just evaluating um {vocalsound} from what we know of how our product's working right now with the criteria that we set atthe beginning of {disfmarker} these are the things we needed to do , these are the things that look like we feel they're important . Um so I was looking at basic design things , does it fulfil its functions as a remote ? Isthe design what we wanted it to do ? I are technologies up to where we hoped they would be and does it fulfil the aesthetic qualities that our original market research was looking for ? Um . Basic questions like , youknow , does it turn on ? Does it respond to voice recognition ? And overall , in general , it looks like it's coming up to par .Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: Um , the only thing is with with the pull-out panel , that is ,can it take some adjusting because it's a new sort of interface , um that looked like it was coming up rough , but then , once you get used to it , it does make a lot of sense .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Reallygood .Marketing: So I think overall we're headed in the right direction . {vocalsound} So .User Interface: They like that spongy feel .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah . Itlooks like it's going over well , soUser Interface: And the paging function works well ,Industrial Designer: Six ?User Interface: that's good to hear ,Marketing: we're we're good yeah .User Interface: we worked hard on"}
{"doc_id":"doc_16","qid":"","text":"Grad A: OK , we 're recording .Professor F: We can say the word \" zero \" all we want ,PhD G: I 'm doing someProfessor F: but just {disfmarker}PhD G: square brackets , coffee sipping , square brackets .PhD B: That 'snot allowed , I think .Postdoc C: Cur - curly brackets .Grad E: Is that voiced or unvoiced ?Grad A: Curly brackets .PhD B: Curly brackets .Professor F: Curly brackets .Grad A: Right .PhD B: Oops .Professor F: Well ,correction for transcribers .PhD G: Mmm ! {comment} {vocalsound} Gar - darn !Professor F: Yeah .Postdoc C: Channel two .Grad A: Do we use square brackets for anything ?Postdoc C: Yeah . Uh {disfmarker}Grad E:These poor transcribers .Professor F: uPostdoc C: Not ri not right now . I mean {disfmarker} No .PhD D: There 's gonna be some zeros from this morning 's meeting because I noticed thatProfessor F: uPhD D: Barry , Ithink maybe you turned your mike off before the digits were {disfmarker} Oh , was it during digits ? Oh , so it doesn't matter .Professor F: Yeah .Grad A: It 's still not a good idea .PhD B: So it 's not {disfmarker} it 'snot that bad if it 's at the end , but it 's {disfmarker} in the beginning , it 's {pause} bad .PhD D: Yeah . Yeah .Grad A: Yeah , you wanna {disfmarker} you wanna keep them on so you get {pause} good noise{disfmarker} noise floors , through the whole meeting .Postdoc C: That 's interesting . Hmm .Professor F: Uh , I probably just should have left it on . Yeah I did have to run , but {disfmarker}Grad E: Is there any way tochange that in the software ?Grad A: Change what in the software ?Grad E: Where like you just don't {disfmarker} like if you {disfmarker} if it starts catching zeros , like in the driver or something {disfmarker} in thecard , or somewhere in the hardware {disfmarker} Where if you start seeing zeros on w across one channel , you just add some {vocalsound} random , @ @ {comment} noise floor {disfmarker} like a small noise floor.Grad A: I mean certainly we could do that , but I don't think that 's a good idea . We can do that in post - processing if {disfmarker} if the application needs it .Grad E: Yeah .PhD B: Manual post - processing .ProfessorF: Well , I {disfmarker} u I actually don't know what the default {comment} is anymore as to how we 're using the {disfmarker} the front - end stuff but {disfmarker} for {disfmarker} for {disfmarker} when we usethe ICSI front - end ,Grad A: As an argument .Professor F: but um , there is an {disfmarker} there is an o an option in {disfmarker} in RASTA , which , um , {vocalsound} in when I first put it in , uh , back in the dayswhen I actually wrote things , uh , {vocalsound} I {pause} did actually put in a random bit or so that was in it ,Grad E: OK .Professor F: but {vocalsound} then I realized that putting in a random bit was equivalent toadding uh {disfmarker} adding flat spectrum ,Grad E: Right .Professor F: and it was a lot faster to just add a constant to the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} to the spectrum . So then I just started doing thatGrad E: Mmm .OK .Professor F: instead of calling \" rand \" {comment} or something ,Grad E: Right .Professor F: so . So it d it does that . Gee ! Here we all are !Grad A: Uh , so the only agenda items were Jane {disfmarker} was Janewanted to talk about some of the IBM transcription process .Professor F: There 's an agenda ?Grad A: I sort of {vocalsound} condensed the three things you said into that . And then just {disfmarker} I only have like ,this afternoon and maybe tomorrow morning to get anything done before I go to Japan for ten days . So if there 's anything that n absolutely , desperately needs to be done , you should let me know now .Professor F:Uh , and you just sent off a Eurospeech paper , so .PhD G: Right . I hope they accept it .Professor F: Right .PhD G: I mean , I {disfmarker} both actu as {disfmarker} as a submission and {disfmarker} {vocalsound}you know , as a paper . Um {disfmarker} but {disfmarker}Grad A: Well yeah , you sent it in {pause} late .Professor F: Yeah , I guess you {disfmarker} first you have to do the first one ,Grad A: Yeah .Professor F: andthen {disfmarker} Yeah .PhD G: We actually exceeded the delayed deadline by o another day , so .PhD B: Oops .Professor F: Oh they {disfmarker} they had some extension that they announced or something ?PhD G:Well yeah . Liz had sent them a note saying \" could we please {pause} have another \" {comment} {pause} I don't know , \" three days \" or something , and they said yes .PhD D: And then she said \" Did I say three?Grad A: Oh ,PhD D: I meant four . \"Grad A: that was the other thing uh ,PhD G: But uGrad A: uh , Dave Gelbart sent me email , I think he sent it to you too , {comment} that um , there 's a special topic , section in siin Eurospeech on new , corp corpors corpora . And it 's not due until like May fifteenth .Professor F: Oh this isn't the Aurora one ?Grad A: No .Professor F: It 's another one ?Grad A: It 's a different one .PhD B: No it 's{disfmarker} Yeah . Yeah .Grad E: Huh !Grad A: And uh ,Professor F: Oh !PhD B: I got this mail from {disfmarker}Grad A: I s forwarded it to Jane as I thought being the most relevant person . Um {disfmarker} So , Ithought it was highly relevant {disfmarker}Postdoc C: Yeah I 'm {disfmarker}Professor F: That 's {disfmarker}Grad A: have you {disfmarker} did you look at the URL ?Postdoc C: Yeah . I think so too . Um , I haven'tgotten over to there yet ,Grad A: Mm - hmm .Postdoc C: but what {disfmarker} our discussion yesterday , I really {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I wanna submit one .PhD B: Was this {pause} SmartKom message ? Ithink {pause} Christoph Draxler sent this ,Postdoc C: Yeah . And , you offered to {disfmarker} to join me , if you want me to .Grad A: I 'll help ,PhD B: yeah .Grad A: but obviously I can't , really do , most of it ,PostdocC: Yeah . Yeah , that 's right .PhD G: I think several people {disfmarker} sent this ,Grad A: so .PhD B: Yeah .Postdoc C: Uh - huh .PhD G: yeah .Grad A: But any {disfmarker} any help you need I can certainly provide.Professor F: Well ,PhD G: Yeah .Professor F: that 's {disfmarker} that 's a great idea .PhD G: Well {disfmarker} there {disfmarker} there were some interesting results in this paper , though . For instance that Morgan{disfmarker} uh , accounted for fifty - six percent of the Robustness meetings in terms of number of words .Grad A: Wow .Postdoc C: In {disfmarker} in terms of what ? In termPhD G: Number of words .Postdoc C: One? Wow ! OK .Grad A: That 's just cuz he talks really fast .Postdoc C: Do you mean ,Professor F: n No .Grad A: I knowPhD B: Oh . Short words .Postdoc C: because {disfmarker} is it partly , eh , c correctly identifiedwords ? Or is it {disfmarker} or just overall volume ?PhD G: No . Well , according to the transcripts .Grad A: But re well regardless . I think it 's {disfmarker} he 's {disfmarker} he 's in all of them ,Postdoc C: Oh . OK.Professor F: Yeah .PhD G: I mean , we didn't mention Morgan by nameGrad A: and he talks a lot .PhD G: we just {disfmarker}Grad A: One participant .Professor F: Well {disfmarker} we have now , but{disfmarker}PhD G: We {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} something about {disfmarker}Grad A: Did you identify him as a senior {pause} member ?PhD G: No , we as identify him as the persondominating the conversation .Professor F: Well .Grad A: Yeah .Postdoc C: OK .Professor F: I mean I get these AARP things , but I 'm not se really senior yet , but {disfmarker}PhD G: RightProfessor F: Um ,PhD G: Hmm.Professor F: but uh , other than that delightful result , what was the rest of the paper about ?PhD G: Um , well it was about {disfmarker} it had three sectionsProfessor F: You sent it to me but I haven't seen it yet .PhDG: uh {disfmarker} three kinds of uh results , if you will . Uh , the one was that the {disfmarker} just the {disfmarker} the amount of overlapGrad A: The good , the bad , and the ugly .PhD G: um , s in terms of{disfmarker} in terms of number of words and also we computed something called a \" spurt \" , which is essentially a stretch of speech with uh , no pauses exceeding five hundred milliseconds . Um , and we computedhow many overlapped i uh spurts there were and how many overlapped words there were . {vocalsound} Um , for four different {pause} corpora , the Meeting Recorder meetings , the Robustness meetings Switchboardand CallHome , and , found {disfmarker} and sort of compared the numbers . Um , and found that the , uh , you know , as you might expect the Meeting Recorder {pause} meetings had the most overlap uh , but nextwere Switchboard and CallHome , which both had roughly the same , almost identical in fact , and the Robustness meetings were {disfmarker} had the least , so {disfmarker} One sort of unexpected result there is thatuh two - party telephone conversations have {vocalsound} about the same amount of overlap ,Grad A: I 'm surprised .PhD G: sort of in gen you know {disfmarker} order of magnitude - wise as , uh {disfmarker} asface - to - face meetings with multiple {disfmarker}Grad A: I have {disfmarker} I had better start changing all my slides !PhD G: Yeah . Also , I {disfmarker} in the Levinson , the pragmatics book , {comment} in youknow , uh , textbook , {vocalsound} there 's {disfmarker} I found this great quote where he says {vocalsound} you know {disfmarker} you know , how people {disfmarker} it talks about how uh {disfmarker} how{disfmarker} how people are so good at turn taking ,Postdoc C: Mm - hmm . Yeah . Yeah .PhD G: and {vocalsound} so {disfmarker} they 're so good that {vocalsound} generally , u the overlapped speech does not{disfmarker} is less than five percent .Postdoc C: Oh , that 's interesting . Yeah .PhD G: So , this is way more than five percent .Grad E: Did he mean face {disfmarker} like face - to - face ? Or {disfmarker} ?PhD G:Well , in real conversations ,Grad E: Hmm .PhD G: everyday conversations .Postdoc C: Mm - hmm .PhD G: It 's s what these conversation analysts have been studying for years and years there .Postdoc C: Mm - hmm.PhD B: But {disfmarker}Postdoc C: Well , of course , no , it doesn't necessarily go against what he said , cuz he said \" generally speaking \" . In order to {disfmarker} to go against that kind of a claim you 'd have to bigcanvassing .Grad A: Hmm .PhD B: And in fPhD G: Well , he {disfmarker} he made a claim {disfmarker}Grad A: Well {disfmarker}PhD G: Well {disfmarker}Grad A: PhD B: But {disfmarker}Professor F: Yeah , we{disfmarker} we have pretty limited sample here .PhD B: Five percent of time or five percent of what ?Grad A: Yeah , I was gonna ask that too .Postdoc C: Yeah .PhD B: Yeah .Postdoc C: Exactly .PhD G: Well it 's time.PhD B: Yeah , so {disfmarker}Postdoc C: It 's {disfmarker} i it 's not against his conclusion ,PhD G: So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} but still {disfmarker} but still {disfmarker} uPostdoc C: it just says that it 's a bi bellcurve , and that , {vocalsound} you have something that has a nice range , in your sampling .PhD G: Yeah . So there are slight {disfmarker} There are differences in how you measure it , but still it 's {disfmarker}{vocalsound} You know , the difference between um {disfmarker} between that number and what we have in meetings , which is more like , {vocalsound} you know , close to {disfmarker} in meetings like these , uh{disfmarker} you know , close to twenty percent .Postdoc C: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .Professor F: But what was it like , say , in the Robustness meeting , for instance ?PhD G: That {disfmarker}Grad A: But{disfmarker}PhD G: Robustness meeting ? It was {vocalsound} about half of the r So , {vocalsound} in terms of number of words , it 's like seventeen or eigh eighteen percent for the Meeting Recorder meetings and{vocalsound} about half that for , {vocalsound} uh , the Robustness .Professor F: Maybe ten percent ?Grad A: But I don't know if that 's really a fair way of comparing between , multi - party , conversations and two -party conversations . Yeah . I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I don't know .PhD B: Then {disfmarker} then {disfmarker} then you have to {disfmarker}Grad A: I mean that 's just something {disfmarker}PhD D: Yeah , Ijust wonder if you have to normalize by the numbers of speakers or something .Postdoc C: Yeah .PhD B: Then {disfmarker} Yeah , then normalize by {disfmarker} by something like that ,Postdoc C: Yeah , that 's agood point .PhD G: Well , we didn't get to look at that ,PhD B: yeah .Postdoc C: Yeah .PhD G: but this obvious thing to see if {disfmarker} if there 's a dependence on the number of uh {disfmarker} participants.Postdoc C: Good idea .Grad A: I mean {disfmarker} I bet there 's a weak dependence . I 'm sure it 's {disfmarker} it 's not a real strong one .PhD B: Yeah .PhD G: Right .Grad A: Right ? Because youPhD D: Cuz noteverybody talks .Grad A: Right .PhD G: Right .PhD D: Yeah .Grad A: You have a lot of {disfmarker} a lot of two - party , subsets within the meeting .PhD G: Right .Postdoc C: Uh - huh .Grad A: Well regardless{disfmarker} it 's an interesting result regardless .PhD G: So {disfmarker} Right .Postdoc C: Yes , that 's right .PhD G: And {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and then {disfmarker} and we also d computed this both withand without backchannels ,Postdoc C: Mm - hmm .PhD G: so you might think that backchannels have a special status because they 're essentially just {disfmarker}Grad A: Uh - huh . So , did {disfmarker} we all said \"uh - huh \" and nodded at the same time ,PhD G: R right .Grad A: so .PhD G: But , even if you take out all the backchannels {disfmarker} so basically you treat backchannels l as nonspeech , as pauses ,Grad A: Mm -hmm .Professor F: Mm - hmm .PhD G: you still have significant overlap . You know , it goes down from maybe {disfmarker} For Switchboard it goes down from {disfmarker} I don't know {disfmarker} f um{disfmarker} {comment} I don't know {disfmarker} f fourteen percent of the words to maybe {vocalsound} uh I don't know , eleven percent or something {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's not a dramatic change,Grad A: Mm - hmm .PhD G: so it 's {disfmarker} Anyway , so it 's uh {disfmarker} That was {disfmarker} that was one set of {pause} results , and then the second one was just basically the {disfmarker}{vocalsound} the stuff we had in the {disfmarker} in the HLT paper on how overlaps effect the {pause} recognition performance .Postdoc C: Hmm .Grad A: Nope . Right .Professor F: Mm - hmm .PhD G: And werescored things um , a little bit more carefully . We also fixed the transcripts in {disfmarker} in numerous ways . Uh , but mostly we added one {disfmarker} one number , which was what if you {pause} uh , basicallyscore ignoring all {disfmarker} So {disfmarker} so the {disfmarker} the conjecture from the HLT results was that {vocalsound} most of the added recognition error is from insertions {vocalsound} due to backgroundspeech . So , we scored {vocalsound} all the recognition results , {vocalsound} uh , in such a way that the uh {disfmarker}Grad A: Oh by the way , who 's on channel four ? You 're getting a lot of breath .PhD B: Yeah .I j was just wondering .Grad E: That 's {disfmarker}PhD B: Yeah .Grad E: That 's me .PhD G: uh , well Don 's been working hard .Grad E: That 's right .PhD G: OK , so {disfmarker} {vocalsound} so if you have theforeground speaker speaking here , and then there 's some background speech , may be overlapping it somehow , um , and this is the time bin that we used , then of course you 're gonna get insertion errors here andhere .Grad A: Right .PhD G: Right ? So we scored everything , and I must say the NIST scoring tools are pretty nice for this , where you just basically ignore everything outside of the , {vocalsound} uh , region that wasdeemed to be foreground speech . And where that was we had to use the t forced alignment , uh , results from s for {disfmarker} so {disfmarker} That 's somewhat {disfmarker} that 's somewhat subject to error , butstill we {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Uh , Don did some ha hand - checking and {disfmarker} and we think that {disfmarker} based on that , we think that the results are you know , valid , although ofcourse , some error is gonna be in there . But basically what we found is after we take out these regions {disfmarker} so we only score the regions that were certified as foreground speech , {comment} {vocalsound}the recognition error went down to almost {vocalsound} uh , the {pause} level of the non - overlapped {pause} speech . So that means that {vocalsound} even if you do have background speech , if you can somehowseparate out or find where it is , {vocalsound} uh , the recognizer does a good job ,Grad A: That 's great .PhD B: Yeah .PhD G: even though there is this backGrad A: Yeah , I guess that doesn't surprise me , because ,with the close - talking mikes , the {disfmarker} the signal will be so much stronger .PhD G: Right . Right .Professor F: Mm - hmm .PhD G: Mm - hmm . Um ,Grad A: What {disfmarker} what sort of normalization doyou do ?PhD G: so {disfmarker} Uh , well , we just {disfmarker} @ @ {comment} we do {disfmarker} u you know , vitGrad A: I mean in you recognizer , in the SRI recognizer .PhD G: Well , we do uh , VTL{disfmarker} {vocalsound} vocal tract length normalization , w and we uh {disfmarker} you know , we {disfmarker} we uh , {vocalsound} make all the features have zero mean and unit variance .Grad A: Over anentire utterance ?Professor F: And {disfmarker}Grad A: Or windowed ?PhD G: Over {disfmarker} over the entire c over the entire channel .PhD B: Don't {pause} train {disfmarker}PhD G: Over the {disfmarker}GradA: Hmm .PhD G: but you know . Um , now we didn't re - align the recognizer for this . We just took the old {disfmarker} So this is actually a sub - optimal way of doing it ,Grad A: Right .Professor F: Right .PhD G: right? So we took the old recognition output and we just scored it differently . So the recognizer didn't have the benefit of knowing where the foreground speech {disfmarker} a startProfessor F: Were you including the{disfmarker} the lapel {pause} in this ?PhD G: Yes .Professor F: And did the {disfmarker} did {disfmarker} did the la did the {disfmarker} the problems with the lapel go away also ? Or {disfmarker}PhD G: Um , it{disfmarker} Yeah .Professor F: fray for {disfmarker} for insertions ?PhD G: It u not per {disfmarker} I mean , not completely , but yes ,Professor F: Less so .PhD G: dramatically . So we have to um{disfmarker}Professor F: I mean , you still {disfmarker}PhD G: Well I should bring the {disfmarker} should bring the table with results . Maybe we can look at it {pause} Monday .Professor F: I would presume that youstill would have somewhat higher error with the lapel for insertions than {disfmarker}PhD G: Yes . It 's {disfmarker} It 's {disfmarker}Professor F: Yeah .PhD G: Yes . Yeah .Professor F: Cuz again , looking forward tothe non - close miked case , I think that we s still {disfmarker}PhD G: Mm - hmm .Grad A: I 'm not looking forward to it .Professor F: i it 's the high signal - to - noise ratioPhD G: Right .Professor F: here that{disfmarker} that helps you .PhD G: u s Right . So {disfmarker} so that was number {disfmarker} that was the second set of {disfmarker} uh , the second section . And then , {vocalsound} the third thing was , welooked at , {vocalsound} {vocalsound} uh , what we call \" interrupts \" , although that 's {disfmarker} that may be {vocalsound} a misnomer , but basically {vocalsound} we looked at cases where {disfmarker} Uh , sowe {disfmarker} we used the punctuation from the original transcripts and we inferred the beginnings and ends of sentences . So , you know {disfmarker}Postdoc C: Di - did you use upper - lower case also , or not?PhD G: Um {disfmarker}Postdoc C: U upper lower case or no ?PhD G: Hmm ?Postdoc C: OK .PhD G: No , we only used , you know , uh periods , uh , question marks and {pause} exclamation . And we know that there's th that 's not a very g I mean , we miss a lot of them ,Postdoc C: Yeah . That 's OK but {disfmarker}PhD G: but {disfmarker} but it 's f i iPostdoc C: Comma also or not ?PhD G: No commas . No . And then{vocalsound} we looked at locations where , uh , if you have overlapping speech and someone else starts a sentence , you know , where do these {disfmarker} where do other people start their {vocalsound} turns{disfmarker} not turns really , but you know , sentences ,PhD B: Ah .PhD G: um {disfmarker} So we only looked at cases where there was a foreground speaker and then at the to at the {disfmarker} so the{disfmarker} the foreground speaker started into their sentence and then someone else started later .PhD B: Somewhere in between the start and the end ?PhD G: OK ? And so what {disfmarker}PhD B: OK .PhD G:Sorry ?PhD B: Somewhere in between the start and the end of the foreground ?PhD G: Yes . Uh , so that such that there was overlap between the two sentences .PhD B: Yeah .PhD G: So , the {disfmarker} the question"}
{"doc_id":"doc_17","qid":"","text":"The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton (Simcoe North, CPC)): Honourable members, I call this meeting to order. Welcome to the 15thmeeting of the House of Commons Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic. Thiswill be a hybrid meeting. Members will be participating via video conference or in person.  I will remind you that in order to avoid issues with sound, members participating in person should not also be connecting byvideo conference. In order to ensure that those joining the meeting via video conference can be seen and heard by those in the chamber, two screens have been set up here on either side of the Speaker's chair, andmembers in the chamber can listen to the floor audio or to interpretation using the earpieces on their desks. Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name and please direct your remarks through the chair.For those joining by video conference, I'd like to remind you to leave your microphones on mute when you are not speaking. Also, please note that if you want to speak in English, you need to be on the English channelfor interpretation, and if you want to speak French, you should do so on the French channel. Should you wish to alternate between the two languages, please change to the channel for the language that you happen tobe using at the time. Should members participating by video conference need to request the floor outside their designated speaking times, they should activate their mic and state that they have a point of order. Thosein the Chamber can rise in the usual way. Please note that today's proceedings will be televised in the same way as a typical sitting of the House. We will now proceed to ministerial announcements. I invite the RightHon. Prime Minister to take the floor.Right Hon. Justin Trudeau (Papineau, Lib.): Thank you, Mr.Chair. I rise today to address what so many people of colour live with every day. Over the past few days, we've seenhorrific reports of police violence against black men and women south of the border, but these are not isolated incidents or elsewhere problems. Prejudice, discrimination and violence are a lived reality for far too manypeople. They are a result of systems that far too often condone, normalize, perpetrate and perpetuate inequality and injustice against people of colour. As a country, we are not concerned bystanders simply watchingwhat is happening next door. We are part of it. The calls for justice, for equality and for peace are found echoed in our communities, because anti-black racism is happening here, everywhere in Canada, every singleday. This is something that our own staff, cabinet ministers and colleagues face even in these halls. Over the past few days, I've heard many of these personal stories directly from them. I'm not just talking about actsof violence. I'm also talking about microaggressions, which many of us may not even see. That is the daily reality of far too many racialized Canadians, and it needs to stop. When it comes to being an ally, I have madeserious mistakes in the past, mistakes that I deeply regret and continue to learn from. I want to thank my colleagues, community leaders and fellow Canadians for opening my eyes to what is really going on in ourcommunities and for helping me better understand both privilege and power. I'm not perfect, but not being perfect is not a free pass to not do the right thing. It's not an excuse to not step up, stand up for each other,be an ally. I know that for so many people listening right now, the last thing you want to hear is another speech on racism from a white politician. I'm not here today to describe a reality I do not know or to speak to apain I have not felt. I'm here because I want you to know that our government is listening. We hear your calls for justice, equality and accountability. We acknowledge your frustration, your anger, your heartbreak. Wesee you.  Since coming to office, our government has taken many concrete steps to fight anti-black racism, systemic discrimination and injustice across the country. We are working directly with the communities andtheir leaders to close the gaps that persist in Canada. For example, we have provided $9million to support programs for black Canadian youth. We have made significant investments to enable the Public Health Agencyof Canada to provide more mental health services to people who have experienced racism or intergenerational trauma. We are helping community organizations to obtain funding to purchase equipment or lease space.We have also created the anti-racism secretariat, which has an envelope of $4.6million, to address systemic barriers, such as employment, justice and social participation, that perpetuate injustice. We have madeprogress, but we know the work is far from being done.  Over the past five years, our government has worked with communities to recognize and address injustices. We've taken action to support communityorganizations, invest in better data and fight racism. While we've made some progress, there is still so much more to do, because here are the facts in Canada: Anti-black racism is real. Unconscious bias is real.Systemic discrimination is real. For millions of Canadians, it is their daily, lived reality. The pain and damage it causes are real too. Mr. Chair, every Canadian who has felt the weight of oppression, every student whohas the courage to demand a better future, every person who marches and posts and reads and fights, from Vancouver to Montreal to Halifax, expects more than the status quo. They expect more and deservebetter.  The Government of Canada has a lot of work to do, but we're ready. We're ready to work with our opposition colleagues, community leaders and Canadians to make our country a more just and fair place.Racism never has a place in this country, and we will do everything we can to eradicate it from coast to coast to coast. Thank you, Mr.Chair.The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): The honourable Leader of theOpposition.Hon. Andrew Scheer (Leader of the Opposition): Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Over the past week, we have all been affected by the heartbreaking killing of George Floyd in the United States. The video ispainful to watch. No one should ever have to plead for help while a crime is being committed, ignored by other members of law enforcement. The tragedy triggered marches, occupations, protests and, unfortunately,riots. However, I hope it has mostly sparked conversations. Racism is real, painful and unacceptable.  No one should ever feel unsafe because of the colour of their skin, especially around police officers who have a dutyand a responsibility to uphold the law for all. Here in Canada, we are fortunate to live in a country that is welcoming, tolerant and inclusive. Canada was a beacon of freedom to so many escaping slavery during the U.S.Civil War. Our nation has benefited immensely from great Canadians who overcame prejudices and discrimination to serve their communities and make Canada a better country: Lincoln Alexander, elected as aConservative in 1968, was the first black member of Parliament and went on to become the first black cabinet minister; John Ware was born into slavery in South Carolina but, following the American Civil War, was aleading figure in bringing the first cattle to Alberta and spearheading the ranching industry that would become the backbone of the province; Josiah Henson escaped slavery to become a thriving businessman in Ontario;and of course, Viola Desmond challenged segregation in Nova Scotia. Black Canadians throughout history have not just built this nation with their contributions; they have also represented Canada with excellence andpride on the world stage, like Harry Jerome, who represented Canada in three Olympic Games and won a bronze medal in 1964. He would go on to become a teacher in British Columbia, once again serving withexcellence to try to make a better world for the next generation. Throughout our history, black Canadians have put their lives on the line for their fellow Canadians, bravely serving around the world in our armed forces.While there are many things we can point to in our history with pride, that is not to say that we have a perfect record, nor that we are immune to the threat of racism or that anti-black racism is just an Americanproblem. Canada has had its own dark episodes of racism that cannot be ignoredsadly, not just in our past. Every day, there are people who experience discrimination or racism in some form. Throughout this pandemic,we have seen a troubling spike in anti-Asian racism. No one should be attacked in their community or targeted on the bus because of the colour of their skin. Nor should places of worship be broken into and desecrated,like the synagogue in Montreal. The Conservatives condemn all acts of anti-semitism, racism and discrimination. In a peaceful and free country like Canada, there is absolutely no room for intolerance, racism orextremism of any kind.  But the violence and destruction we have seen in response are not the answer. Millions of people are protesting peacefully across the United States and in Canada, and we must always protectthe rights of people who are protesting peacefully and within the law for a just cause and separate them from those who exploit tragedies to commit acts of violence. Mr. Floyd's brother, Terrence, said that violence willnot bring his brother back. Instead, he has called for peace and justice and urged the crowds to educate themselves and to vote. Out of such tragedy, Mr. Chair, that is a powerful message about how each one of us canuse our democratic rights to effect change. In a peaceful and free country like Canada, there is absolutely no room for intolerance, racism and extremism of any kind. We are not born believing we are better than oneanother. We are all created in the image and likeness of God, and because of that, we are all equal. An infinite value exists in each one of us.  Canada is an incredibly diverse country. Canada is a nation of immigrantsthat stands on the traditional territories of first nations, Inuit and Mtis people. Waves of newcomers have come to Canada for a better life because our country is built on a rock-solid foundation of enduring values,democratic institutions, the rule of law and fundamental and universal human rights. Everyone comes here because Canada is built on solid values, democratic institutions, and respect for the rule of law, as well as forfundamental, universal human rights. We must absolutely protect these values, because they are what sets us apart. They allow Canada to offer what so many other countries simply cannot. There are those who saythat diversity is our strength, and that is true, but it doesn't quite capture the full picture. Diversity is the result of our strength, and our strength is and always has been our freedom. It is the freedom for people topreserve and pass on their cultural traditions and the opportunity to live in peace with those around them; the freedom to live your life with equality under the law, regardless of your race or ethnic background; and theeconomic freedom that so many governments around the world deny their people. It is that economic freedom that ensures that hard work pays off. It gives people the ability to work towards their dreams and choosetheir own path in life. Together, generations of Canadians who trace their roots back to countries around the world have built Canada to truly the greatest country on earth, the true north strong and free. To ensure thatour people remain free, we must continue to fight attacks on our freedoms, including racism and all forms of brutality and injustice in Canada and around the world. Minority rights must be protected. Freedom of religionmust be protected. Freedom of expression and the right to peaceful protest must be protected. As John Diefenbaker said, I am a Canadian...free to speak without fear, free to worship...in my own way, free to stand forwhat I think right, free to oppose what I believe wrong, free to choose those who shall govern my country. This heritage of freedom I pledge to uphold for myself and all mankind. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.TheActing Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): The hon. member for BeloeilChambly.Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet (BeloeilChambly, BQ): Thank you, Mr.Chair. George Floyd is not a victim of racism; he is another victim of racism. At atime of crisis when outrage is overwhelming the caution and fear of disease among thousands of people who, despite everything, take to the streets to express that outrage, we here in politics will have to be careful,once again, about the words we use. Indeed we are particularly inclined to give other people's words a meaning other than the one they would have liked to give them. Today, our dutyand I would say almost our onlydutyis to express our solidarity, our sadness, our indignation and our anger, but above alland in saying this, I'm thinking of all my friends and acquaintances in the wonderful black community in Quebec and theUnitedStatesour friendship. We must try to be heard by all humans. Every time we talk about this, a small part of me surfaces, that of the non-practising but unrepentant anthropologist who wants to remind us thatraces do not exist. It is the frequency of manifestations of certain genetic traits favoured by geography and history, which in turn shape cultures. Racism expresses itself first and foremost through aggression againstwhat is presumed to be the culture of others, difference. Each time difference instills fear, it is, of course, one time too many. We must learn to live equality in diversity, in itself an extraordinary thing. Governments inthe U.S. have all been racist. Their racism has necessarily been expressed, at some point in their history, in their institutions. It has left its mark. It is the only thing that we have the right to call systemic racism orsystemic discrimination. I am concerned when anyone suggests that we are all and collectively inclined to engage in systemic discrimination or when anyone claims to be a bulwark of virtue between us and the victims.I believe that the Canadian government is not racist, that the Quebec government is not racist, and that the governments of our municipalities are not racist either. I believe, however, that there may be traces ofhorrible things left in our institutions that colour our relationships with people of different origins or with people who were here long before us. So systemic racism probably exists. It should not denounce individuals, butit should encourage us to reread our rules to get rid of what might still be discriminatory in them. This day belongs to GeorgeFloyd. This day belongs to the black people of the UnitedStates. This day belongs to the blackpeople of Quebec and Canada. We don't play politics at the funeral doors: we gather our thoughts, and let indignation and sadness be expressed. We leave the streets to those who need to speak with one voice, inpeace. All that is peaceful is legitimate. Nothing that is violent is legitimate. The Prime Minister expressed the desire to implement concrete measures to fight racism. The first must be to show our solidarity andfriendship. I'm proposing a very concrete measure, which is to give priority and expedited processing to the files of refugee claimantsespecially Haitian, especially black, but also of other originswho have expressed theirdesire to be part of the Quebec nation by putting themselves on the front line. He has the power and the duty to do so, and if he needs Parliament, let's do it tomorrow or right now. That way, words will become actions,and the next step will be all the more credible. In the meantime, our duty is to stand up for those who are afraid and against those who frighten them. Thank you, Mr.Chair.The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Thehonourable member for Burnaby South.Mr. Jagmeet Singh (Burnaby South, NDP): Thank you, Mr.Chair. Many, many Canadians were shocked to see the violence surrounding the murder of GeorgeFloyd. GeorgeFloyd'smurder is a grim reminder that anti-black racism still exists and that it hits hard. Anti-black racism isn't only in the UnitedStates; it's here in Canada, too. Systemic racism against blacks, indigenous people and manyother visible minorities is alive and well: racial profiling, economic inequality, social inequality, discriminatory hiring, trivialization of violence, excess incarceration, and so on. Things aren't moving forward because onegovernment after another prefers pretty words to concrete action. When the time comes to act, they don't have the courage, they don't have the will to act. People are feeling a lot of grief and frustration, but we canturn that into action and justice. We must not just call for peace. I believe that we have to call for justice. Justice is the only way to create a better world.  When people around the world saw the killing of George Floyd,it left all of us shaken to our core. It was chilling, the casual violence of anti-black racism, the callous taking of another human being's life. It hurt to the core. There was pain. There was sadness. There is anger, andrightly so. There is frustration. This isn't just an American problem. This is just as much a Canadian problem as well, and something that continues to exist across our country. Anti-black racism and anti-indigenousracism are real. People have suffered violence. Indigenous people and black people have suffered violence and have been killed at the hands of police here in Canada. I think about Regis Korchinski-Paquet in Torontoand the calls for justice for Regis. A black trans woman was killed in suspicious circumstances in an interaction with the police. I think about Stewart Kevin Andrews, a young indigenous man killed in an interaction withthe police in Winnipeg. The anger and frustration are about this: How many more people need to die before there's action? How many more speeches will be made? How many more protests need to happen beforesomething is done? How many more times will people plead to breathe? How many more times will they plead to live? What we're talking about is basic human dignity. How many more voices have to ask, demand,plead, beg for basic human dignity? People are angry. They're feeling like enough is enough. Why do they need to keep on asking? Why do black people, why do indigenous people need to keep on asking to be treatedlike humans? Why? You know, people are done with pretty speeches, particularly pretty speeches from people in power who could do something about it right now if they wanted to. I'm standing in a hall of power, thechamber of the Commons, with a Prime Minister who has the power not just to say pretty words but to actually do something about this. The Prime Minister of this country has the power to go beyond pretty words andpretty speeches and do something. I don't have all the answers. I don't think any one person does. We're going to have to come up with those solutions together, but there are certainly some things we do know. MartinLuther King said, True peace is not merely the absence of tension; it is the presence of justice. That's what we need. We need justice.  Killer Mike extolled that people should plan, plot, strategize, organize and thenmobilize. Cardi B put it this way: Another way for the people to take powerI don't want to make everything political but it is what it isis by voting. So what do we vote for? We vote for a government to take action. I callon the Prime Minister, in this hall of power: If the Prime Minister believes that black lives matter, will the Prime Minister commit to ending racial profiling in our country? If the Prime Minister believes that black livesmatter, will the Prime Minister commit to ending the over-policing of black bodies? If the Prime Minister believes, truly believes, that black lives matter, will the Prime Minister commit to ending the over-incarceration ofblack people in this country? If the Prime Minister truly believes that black lives matter, will he commit to ensuring that there are race-based data to make better decisions? Will he commit to ensuring that there's accessto education and to health resources? The Prime Minister has the power to do all these things right now. The Prime Minister simply needs to get it done. If the Prime Minister truly believes that indigenous lives matter,then similarly the Prime Minister must commit today to ending the racial profiling of indigenous people, the over-policing of indigenous people and the over-incarceration of indigenous people. If the Prime Minister trulybelieves that indigenous lives matter, the Prime Minister could stop taking indigenous kids to court; the Prime Minister could stop delaying the action on the calls for justice for the murdered and missing indigenouswomen and girls. If the Prime Minister believes that indigenous lives matter, he could ensure that there's clean drinking water and access to justice and to education and housing right now. People are angry becausethey are frustrated and done with pretty words. People are angry because they're done with pretty speeches from people in power who could do something about it right now. People don't want peace. They don't want"}
{"doc_id":"doc_18","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: So we come to the third meetings . I have {gap} good .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um so in the last meeting we have discussed the functional design and now we will talkabout the conceptual design . So we will talk about some specific details .Industrial Designer: Okay so I think I will do my presentation on the components concept so can you please uh open uh {disfmarker} I'mparticipant two .Project Manager: This {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Components design .Project Manager: {gap}Industrial Designer: Okay so uh the first thing uh I have done is to to made a review together withthe uh manufactural uh department and have which components was uh available to build a remote control . So for energy sources we have we have to choose between the solar energy , hand dynamo and uh kineticum well uh kinetic uh technique {vocalsound} to to store the energy .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: We also um {vocalsound} we also can put a regular battery in the in theremote control . Now {disfmarker}Project Manager: Uh this is what we have decided in the last meeting . But if we use battery {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah b uh f well uh I meant uh by by battery I meant uhI will not have a uh a wire between the remote control and the energy source but uh I didn't fou we didn't decide yet which kind of battery we will put inside the the remote . So uh it's a point to discuss . Then uh thecase material we have uh uh also several choices , like wood , rubber , titanium or latex . {vocalsound} But uh well it's not a a re uh well a real issue for the {vocalsound} {disfmarker} from the technical uh point ofview . Concerning the interface uh we can we can put mm just simple buttons or scrolls or buttons uh much more complicated , but it also requires that the chip to process the button is more complicated so .UserInterface: Mm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} And uh this is the last point , the choice of chips . So what I have f found is that I think basic battery or kinetic uh energy uh collection is the is the better way toprovide energy because I think solar energy wi won't work {vocalsound} in a cluttered uh {vocalsound} uh environment .User Interface: Mm .Industrial Designer: So um so I think we can start with these two mainthings . For the case uh well uh I think that uh titanium is um is a good choice because it's trendy and it's uh it's uh well it's modern and uh user are are are {disfmarker} mm will be uh very happy to have a{vocalsound} a a nice remote . For the interface uh I think that we can ach achieve uh all the desired functionalities by s just uh using uh rubber buttons , simple buttons and th thus this allow to use a regular chip{vocalsound} that are uh well cheaper . {vocalsound}User Interface: Mm .Industrial Designer: And s so uh we can move to the next slide .User Interface: Sorry .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: What is thissingle curved {disfmarker} what does it mean ?Industrial Designer: Well uh uh i i it's uh it's the the shape of the um of the remote .User Interface: So it's it's not {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: You you will have the{disfmarker} well um the the curve will fit into your hand when you grab the {disfmarker}User Interface: Yo l yeah . When you hold on it , it is comfortable to hold .Industrial Designer: Yeah . It's more confog fcomfortable that if these uh it's completely flat .User Interface: Okay . Yeah . And the battery , is it kind of a rechargeable or it doesn't matter ?Industrial Designer: Yeah the um that's the point . The kinetic one is uh yyou can recharge uh by the um {disfmarker}User Interface: That that's what it means by kinetic .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah and by {disfmarker} well by just by moving the ar uh your arm the mm well theremote will uh accumulate energy .User Interface: Okay . Mm-hmm . Okay .Industrial Designer: But I d I don't know it's {disfmarker} if it is feasible because I don't know if yet if if the user will move enough to providethe remote um all the necessary energy .User Interface: Mm . {vocalsound} Mm . Okay . Yeah . Yeah . We we might check with our R_ and D_ department to see if they have this product {vocalsound} ready for market. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound} And {disfmarker} yeah and so can you go to the next slide please . So and uh that's uh that summarize well what I have said .User Interface: Mm mm .{vocalsound} {vocalsound} WhaIndustrial Designer: So uh you're right we can uh see in our uh R_ and D_ uh {vocalsound} if the kinetic metal is sufficient to provide enough energy .User Interface: Ah the department. Mm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} That's it .User Interface: Uh {disfmarker} So I um keep in touch with the R_ and D_ department .Industrial Designer: Oh yeahUser Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:I take care , it's all right .User Interface: {vocalsound} So the titanium case is the normal case that {disfmarker} I'll show you some pictures that I have and you tell me whether they are titanium case or not .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound} All right . Yeah .User Interface: 'Cause I am not very sure , plastic , titanium or whatever . There's another point I want to make , is that the uh {disfmarker} well you've seen them I le na mypresentation that um I point out some {disfmarker} why buttons are not the mm not the only ways you can {vocalsound} use {disfmarker} Yeah . Yeah , maybe nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Wewill , okay .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Three .User Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound} So the user interface is uh i it uses the aspect uh of a computer system , a programme which can be seen or heardor otherwise perceived by the human userProject Manager: {gap}User Interface: and the commands and mechanism the user uses to control its operation and input data . So you s this gives you the ways to input dataand we have uh {disfmarker} we are more {disfmarker} we emphasise more on the graphical user interface here . The idea is to represent buttons as figures , diagrams , symbols and on so you you can easily whenyou look at the symbols you understand what it is doing .Project Manager: What's the function of this button .User Interface: Yeah . Yeah . So .Project Manager: I think it makes the the interface really {disfmarker}UserInterface: Ea easy to use . So next one .Project Manager: Graphical user interface {gap} .User Interface: {gap} function five . So I can use the button , the mouse maybe .Project Manager: A graphical user interfaceemphasise the use of pictures .User Interface: Yeah . So next line . So the {disfmarker} here are some examples . So they cluster the buttons together . They group them into col they colour them and uh they havedifferent forms as well . Mm but this interface are kind of confusing . Uh basically there are too many buttons . Right . Next one .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: So some people are propose voice recognitionand so {disfmarker} ah by the way I receive an email from the from one our departments saying that the voice recognition has been used in the coffee machine {vocalsound} for this by a companyIndustrial Designer:{vocalsound}User Interface: when you tell the {disfmarker} you say good morning coffee machine and the machine are reply to you . So I just got an email saying that .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm mm mm .UserInterface: And it seems like this voice recognition technology is ready to be used so we might consider that , supposedly .Industrial Designer: Yeah fine .User Interface: {vocalsound} The next one . Mm so somebody{disfmarker} some people use uh some people use a spinning wheel th with the L_C_ display so instead of using the mm buttons you have a L_C_D_ screen and then there you can u you can use that as buttons , youcan use that as real {disfmarker} so so that could be an option as well . Touch screen , I mean .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Next one . And some people propose a scroll button . Integrated with push buttonsor you may have scroll button instead of p just the push button . Like the one we have here . Uh , next one . So mmProject Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: so there are a few aspects that I collected here . So sbasically this deals with special users , children , handicapped people , old people , and uh mm and prog basically they are programmable , specially for children . And uh mm {disfmarker} yeah yeah . And then theyalso secure uh covers , to protect uh secure and hidden programming and battery covers that will protect your settings . So {disfmarker} But we don't have to integrate all these complicated features . I'm just sayingthat the {disfmarker} currently in the market there are there are control there are remote controllers f {gap} customisable for different people . Yeah , so that's the point . The next one . And uh you see this is the onewhere you have the protection cover . Mm maybe useful for children , they migh you you they only see the buttons outside . And for adults wh where you have more control you can see the one inside . So the adultsmight wanna have a key to lock that to pr so children will not touch the button inside .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: S a good idea .User Interface: The next one .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}User Interface: So this guy {disfmarker} this is another company that provides big buttons . At {disfmarker} I see that that is useful for old people and then you don't get it lost . But for ourproduct we don't need a big one because you have voice recognition e eventually with use .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: And you can call your remote controller if you don't know where it is .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} T_V_ remote controller where are you ?Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: And then , he will beeps and to say that I am here , {vocalsound} forexample .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {gap} We should include speech synthesis in this case , no ?User Interface: Is it possible ?Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: Uh ?{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah but uh as Norman say if uh there is uh already a commercial product available who t who do this we we can check uh to integrate it i into our uh new remote control .Marketing:Yeah .User Interface: Yeah . Yeah . Yeah . Yeah . And uh , this is another one where you can uh {disfmarker} the the the part that's a V_ standing for the volume . So there's a up arrow and a down arrow . But you thesee that in the V_ , the V_ appears to be the down arrow on the top {disfmarker} on the top up arrow {disfmarker} {vocalsound} if you {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: up arrow there's a V_like as as if it's turning down so it's confusing interface , so I wanna avoid this kind of thing in the design .Industrial Designer: Yeah yeah .User Interface: And here are {disfmarker} is uh here is a s short summary thatI summary that I compiled after the findings I found . Big buttons are convenient , voice recognition helps , push buttons , scroll buttons , spinning wheels can be used as navigation tools . And uh user customisable isimportant and finally simplicity simplicity is the key . Yeah . So {vocalsound} we have many concepts thereIndustrial Designer: Hmm . {vocalsound}User Interface: but we have to choose later on which ones areimportant to be used .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: And basically uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Well I {vocalsound} I think you it's it's it's fine you have uh reviewed all all the possibilitiesUserInterface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: but uh uh well uh i if we consider that uh the user interface is displayed on the T_V_ screen I don't think we nee uh we need much buttons in the remoteProject Manager: {gap}UserInterface: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: since we we just have to navigate and to have a okay or enter key or things like that ,User Interface: Yeah . Mm .Industrial Designer: because uh adding wheels or scrolls uhmakes the thing more complicated and more expensive also , so .User Interface: Mm . Okay .Project Manager: Or maybe we can include the user manual in the in the remote control {gap} and we should have just abutton like help and you say uh and you ik you press the button help and maybe you see the the user m might in the in the T_V_ .Industrial Designer: Yeah . That's a good idea .Marketing: {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: To have a help button .User Interface: A help button .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: So you are display on the screen .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: On T_V_ T_V_ screen .UserInterface: So {disfmarker} on the T_V_ screen .Industrial Designer: On the T_V_ screen . On the T_V_ screen the uh how to use your remote .Project Manager: So just you push the buttonUser Interface: Okay . Okay .Okay .Project Manager: and we will {disfmarker}Marketing: Oh .User Interface: So that eliminates all the complicated documentation {gap} ,Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: okay . So wiMarketing: But peopleare often enough looking at the help ,Project Manager: If the if {disfmarker}Marketing: once they see the help button they say oh this is a complicated stuff .Project Manager: {vocalsound} No {vocalsound} In the casewhere they need help , in the case where they need help .Industrial Designer: Uh yeah . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} It's a psychology .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} In a marketing point of view.Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: And let us see what the market demands .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: We could just go to my presentation .Industrial Designer: But{disfmarker} uh wel well I think {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's just for user customizable , for kids or old people .Marketing: Yeah that's right .User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: So {disfmarker}Marketing: Imean it just showed us the remote with an cap which could be used for kids and if you remove the {disfmarker}Project Manager: So it's the same {disfmarker}Marketing: Same remote with some {disfmarker}ProjectManager: Can be used by both kids and old people .Marketing: Both yeah .User Interface: Mm . {vocalsound} Well uh what I s propose is that uh you know a remote controller , i {vocalsound} it could be a cube,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: is uh a small device that uh looks like a cube and maybe you can just change the {vocalsound} um the buttons , if you ch turn one side you get one one buttons , youturn the other side you get the other buttons , so for maybe new generation people who get used to the computer they want lots of controls . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Maybe for kids , kids they like uh t no l theylike to {disfmarker}User Interface: Small {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Uh well .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: So le le let's see what uh what {vocalsound} people want .User Interface: Let's see themarket demand .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: And then we can decide what what we can {disfmarker} yeah .User Interface: What what {gap} market {disfmarker} yes yes .Project Manager:{gap}Marketing: So we just made an marketing survey of what people need from our remotes and how it could be special from the other remotes . And we got the best on the responses from the questionnaires . Uh wealso have some prizes for the most creative solutions . And we found the following solutions which we could {disfmarker} which would be helpful for our design . So seventy percent of the users , they find their remotecontrols very ugly , they don't find it pleasant to use in the size or usage or anything . And eighty percent of the people they are always l I mean they are willing to spend more money if the remote control would lookfancy . And the current remote controls do not match well the operating behaviour of the user . And seventy five percent of the users said they zap a lot .Project Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound}Marketing: And fiftypercent say they use only ten percent of the buttons ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: so the rest of the ninety percent of the buttons they're not used most of the times .UserInterface: Yeah . Yes .Marketing: So this were the findings which we found . And also they cited frustrations with the present remote controls . Most of {disfmarker} fifty percent of the time the remote controls are lostsomewhere in the room and people are always searching for them {vocalsound} rather than watching the T_V_ .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: And by the time they found the remote control the program is finished.Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: So {vocalsound} they're frustrated a lot {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: And um if the remote control is too complicated it takes much time to learn thefunctionality of it .User Interface: Mm .Industrial Designer: Mm , the functionalities yeah .Marketing: So you can just see the percentage , fifty percent people they responded that they always lose their remotes andthirty four percent they say that it's quite difficult to learn if it's too complex .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .Marketing: So keeping in view all these findings and the frustrations I think this should be thesolution for them . We should have an L_C_D_ on the rem remote control .User Interface: Oh .Industrial Designer: Well mm w well I I I don't really see the advantage of having uh L_C_D_ on the on the remote controlif we have a a a big screen and uh display on the screen .User Interface: Big screen .Industrial Designer: It's {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm ?Industrial Designer: yeah of course it's fancy trendy and so on but it's it'sexpensive to produce {vocalsound} and it's not really {disfmarker}Marketing: I mean as our survey says that people are willing to pay more if their remotes are fancy .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: So if wehave a L_C_D_ on the remote , rather than looking onto the T_V_ you just look into a remote and navigate it . It's the same menu as we have saw that iPod remote control .User Interface: Mm yeah .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound} Yeah yeah .User Interface: Mm . The thing {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing: We just {vocalsound} play aroundIndustrial Designer: Yeah but when you play with the iPod you don't have{vocalsound} a big screen in front of you , sProject Manager: You can use this screen instead of the big se screen ,User Interface: Yeah . Yeah .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: instead of usethe {disfmarker} yeah .User Interface: If you re-use the existing screen , we element {disfmarker} eliminate the L_C_D_ , after all the L_C_D_ just to displayProject Manager: Hmm .User Interface: and if you have thecolourful screen you can make the display colourful , fancy , as fancy as the one on the L_C_D_ ,Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: maybe even better .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: So{disfmarker}Marketing: I mean this were the points which we got from the market demands .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Yeah yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: SoIndustrial Designer: So I thI I {vocalsound} well I think we we can focus on the uh on the fancy look on the uhUser Interface: Yeah . More on a fancy design .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah that's fine .Industrial Designer: on the speechrecognition if the technology is availableMarketing: Yeah . I mean that's {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .Industrial Designer: but well I think L_C_D_ will uh will uh make us spend a lot of money for notso big results .User Interface: Mm . Remember we have a s budget for the cost of producing the remote controller .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: But {disfmarker} Yeah .User Interface: Yeah . So i is{disfmarker}Marketing: Uh yeah we have uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: {gap}User Interface: so the thing is you can find out how much an L_C_D_ will cost and then we'll decide again . {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound} I mean that should be found out by the Industrial Designers . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh maybe you can find out the price and tell usnext time {gap} . Is i if iIndustrial Designer: So price of uh L_C_D_ display .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: And {disfmarker}Marketing: And it's always good to have an voice recognition for the remotecontrols .User Interface: Yeah . And also the cost for the speech recognition .Project Manager: Mm . It's for {disfmarker}User Interface: Ask our R_ and D_ department .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: it'sjust for small vocabulary . We {disfmarker} it's not {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah it's o only for a limited vocabulary ,Project Manager: yeah .User Interface: Yeah . And hoMarketing: say eighty"}
{"doc_id":"doc_19","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Okay , welcome to the detailed design meeting . Again , I'm gonna take minutes . Oh , we're gonna have a prototype presentation first .User Interface: {gap}Project Manager: Uh , who's gonna givethe prototype presentation ? You two guys ? Okay . Go ahead .Industrial Designer: Yes . {vocalsound} {gap}User Interface: {gap} .Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {gap} . {vocalsound}User Interface: {gap}coffee .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: 'Kay , we've made a prototype . Um , we've got uh {vocalsound} uh our aspects from the last meeting . Uh , especially we looked at the form , material and thecolour . Um , we've uh drawn here the p prototype . The logo is uh is uh {vocalsound} is pretty uh {vocalsound} obvious to see on the on the remote control ,User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: but it is necessary when you want to build your uh company f to a level higher . Um , {vocalsound} our interface elements , there are shown in the in the drawing . Maybe you can uh point them uh{disfmarker} The functions .User Interface: Uh , well the uh {disfmarker} all the functions are discussed uh {disfmarker} I think the most of the functions are uh uh obvious . Uh , it's a little bit . Uh , power button . Uhthen the the the nine uh channels .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh the volume uh uh at the side , and the other side is the programmes . And then we had uh just uh two buttons , we place them inthe middle , uh the menu , and for the teletextProject Manager: Oh no , the the the mute button misses now .User Interface: {vocalsound} {disfmarker} I thought that was thMarketing: Alright , I {disfmarker}ProjectManager: Do y do you {disfmarker}User Interface: Oh , the mute button .Project Manager: did we want to have a m mute button ?Industrial Designer: But uh that {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: It'suh here then , in the middle .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Huh .Marketing: Alright , and uh you gotta point out which is the volume um uh button and which is the programme button .Industrial Designer: Yes ,umUser Interface: {vocalsound} Well , yeah mo uh moIndustrial Designer: we've discUser Interface: Yeah , well most of them are right-handed .Industrial Designer: Most of the usersMarketing: Yeah , but you yougotta make it clear on the {disfmarker} on {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah well , I don't have time in uh anymore on the {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yes , y there there will be a p a little a little P_ on that and alittle uh {disfmarker} yeah .Marketing: Yeah , and a and a triangle on that .User Interface: Oh yeah , just progr programme above , I think .Marketing: Yes . Next to that I kinda miss a zero actually .User Interface:{vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Wait , there's {disfmarker} was one thing I wanted to ask .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh , there are different ways for remote controls to uh {vocalsound} do uh likeMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: uh d I call it teens andtwenties . Uh , y th th th the two numbers .Industrial Designer: Yes .Marketing: All n no , that's um {vocalsound} kinda dependent on the television .User Interface: Yeah , true , yeah .Industrial Designer: It's atelevision . Yes .Project Manager: Yeah , but do we have {disfmarker} do we need extra buttons ,User Interface: Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} for example some uh some have to {disfmarker}UserInterface: Uh I think so .Marketing: I think {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yes , yes , you have you have a lot of standard buttons that has to be uh on it , uh th with the one and a double uh uh{disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah , I think you should add {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: Zero ?Marketing: A cross , or whatever . Yeah , line .Project Manager: Yeah , but you don't you don't actually need them,User Interface: May maybe here ?Industrial Designer: yes .Project Manager: becau b l a lot of remote controls work that y when y that you when you fir you push the one first , then you have a couple of seconds{disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah . And then a second .Marketing: No , that's dependent on the television .Project Manager: No , I don't think so .Industrial Designer: Yes , you have televisions , then you have to , youknow , you have to uh press {disfmarker}Marketing: I do know so .User Interface: Is it depending on television ?Project Manager: Nah , I don't think so really ,Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: because you have a{disfmarker} I know some remote controls that don't have these buttons , but you still can , know , obviously you can still select the twenty {disfmarker} uh a number in the twenty or in the ten .Industrial Designer:Yes , but but a lot {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yes , but uh uh no uh remote control nowadays are um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} they come with the television . Or actually , the other way around .ProjectManager: No , I think {disfmarker} uh I really think it's nMarketing: But {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Project Manager: because you can {disfmarker} when when you put a button on it with like one and uh then a dash ,it's the same thing as when you just push the one ,Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: because it i it first gives you the functionality of that that uh separate button you also had to uh apply .Industrial Designer: Yes ,butMarketing: Yeah , well {disfmarker} but su {vocalsound} If {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: some televisions don't accept uh that that {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah , because that's i it's for television . It'sexact the same thing .Industrial Designer: No , no , but sMarketing: No no no . So some television respond differently . Look , if uh i iProject Manager: No , listen listen . When you push the button , the remote controlgives a signal . I in th in the first place it gives a signal which it would also send when you put a separate button on it .Marketing: Yes . Yes , that's true .Project Manager: The one with dash , that signal gi and when ywhe when you don't push another button on the remote control within five seconds , then the remote control gives a signal for channel one .User Interface: Yeah . True .Marketing: No {disfmarker}Project Manager: Ithink it works that way , really .Marketing: No , it it it works uh if you haven't got uh a special button for it , uh if you push a one , then on your television there will appear a one and a a line , which is an empty space.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah , but it's exact the same {gap} that w would appear when you put a separate button {disfmarker} push a separate button .Industrial Designer: Yes , but some some old televisionsuh you have to uh click on uh a special button , uh then you go to a a next level , you can push two buttons .Project Manager: Yeah , but you don't underst uh you don't understand my point .Marketing: Yep .{vocalsound} True .Project Manager: I think it's exact the same thing when yIndustrial Designer: You want {disfmarker} Yes , but some television don't support it .Project Manager: No , but then they would a wouldalso support that button , because it's the same thing .User Interface: But the exProject Manager: Listen , with {disfmarker} that that's that special but button {gap} you're talking about , eh ? That's just a signal torecei ju they send a t signal to the v tv T_V_ that they have to put a one in {disfmarker} on your screen and a dash , which you can pu so you can uh still put another number on it . When you don't have that separatebutton , and you push y one , it's exactly the same thing . Do y you {disfmarker} the remote control gives that same signal as it would give when you only had {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: No ,Marketing: No , ssome some televisions need the input first uh and and you cIndustrial Designer: a remote can {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yes ,Project Manager: But you give the input .Industrial Designer:so they need {disfmarker} no , they need {disfmarker}Project Manager: You push the one . That's the same thing as the button with the one and it {disfmarker}Marketing: No , that's not true .Project Manager: yes it itis .Marketing: It's simply not true . It's simply not true .Project Manager: Think about it .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: No ,User Interface: You uh you can wai when you push the one you can show on thetelly a one and just a dash , and then wait uh two uh seconds or something {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: but uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: And it's the same thing what happens anda g remote control gives another signal after five seconds that is just one .Marketing: No , remote control doesn't give signal after five seconds . Remote control is a stupid thing . If you push a button , it sends itimmediately to to the television .Project Manager: Yeah , that's true . Yeah , but I m uh but it's {disfmarker} I I know for sure that some televisions that w th th the remote control supplied , only ha has the c thesebuttons with a one and a dash and a two and a dash , but when you use a bu a n remote control that doesn't sport these buttons , it still works .Industrial Designer: Yeah , it {disfmarker}Project Manager: But okay , wewe'll implMarketing: No , definitely not . Definitely not .User Interface: We'll discuss them in the usability lab .Project Manager: No , we'll apply them then for now .User Interface: Uh eva evaluation .Marketing:{vocalsound}User Interface: I don't know uh I don't know if if it's it's necessary .Project Manager: Yeah , app just apply them next to the zero , the one and the two .User Interface: Yeah ?Project Manager: Yeah , Ithink so . Yeah , for now , if we don't know for sure whether {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Okay .Industrial Designer: And the button for the SCART uh audio video uh external input.Marketing: Yes .User Interface: Ach .Project Manager: Yeah but {disfmarker}Marketing: Uh , you can access that uh via zero , and then minus , I guess .Project Manager: okay . {vocalsound} What I said about uh theremote control sending another signal , that that might not be true ,Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: but I still think i it it {disfmarker} all T_V_s in some ways support it , I don't know . I thinkit's more c is m maybe we don't {disfmarker} uh we both don't really understand how it i how it really works ,Industrial Designer: No , no .Project Manager: but I think there's more to in than wha than what you justsaid .Industrial Designer: Uh , remote control sends one signal at one button uh press .Project Manager: I do think that uh m T_V_s support mur multiple kind of remote controls . MIndustrial Designer: Uh , some{disfmarker} N some televisions when when you want to go further than uh ten {disfmarker}Project Manager: Th won't work wi with uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: No , you have to you have to uh give thetelevision uh two or more signals .Project Manager: to have that special button .Industrial Designer: When you uh press one button , you give one signal . And the older televisions need more signals to go a level higher. But {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay , well we'll see .Marketing: Yep .Industrial Designer: When you make the technology that that it will uh give more signals , it could work , but {disfmarker} Just a basic idea ofof of the most uh {disfmarker} most y most common uh and simple uh operations on the remote .Marketing: Okay . I kinda miss the docking station .User Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yes . It'shere on the {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Well it {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: yeah , uh there'snothing {disfmarker} I think it's pretty basic ,Industrial Designer: We came uh {disfmarker}User Interface: the the {disfmarker} there's no fuIndustrial Designer: Yes .User Interface: there's one there's one button,Marketing: No nothing really trendy about it .User Interface: that's wha there's there's there's one function and that's n the one button when you want to find it .Industrial Designer: But maybe we can maybe we canmake the docking station uh uh a bit standard for for uh the other products we sell ,Marketing: The button .Industrial Designer: because Real {vocalsound} Real Reaction sells more products than only remote controls .So maybe we can uh use the docking station , for example , uh M_P_ three players or or uhMarketing: Yep .Industrial Designer: uh hearing devices .Marketing: I think that's very difficult , because of different shapes ofuh uh devices .Industrial Designer: Yes , but when you put that same volt voltages on it , you can put uh {disfmarker} when the when the when uh o the the the lowest part of it , when it's o the same as the otherproducts , you can put it all on the same uh {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah , of course . Mm-hmm . Well it it got it {disfmarker} it has got to fit into the shape , of course .Industrial Designer: Yes , but wecan make {disfmarker}Marketing: The technology and the voltage can be the same . That's uh that's true . But uh i if you all make the m having a bottom like this , then they all fit .Industrial Designer: No , we canmake uh make the most lowest part all the same .Marketing: Yeah , that's true , but uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: When when the the recharger has a has a bit what points out , we can place all on top of it . Justhave to be big enough for the biggest {disfmarker}Marketing: Yes , but uh I I g Shouldn't it fall then ? It {disfmarker} isn't going to fall down ? {vocalsound} That's a bit uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: No , whenyou make it large enough no it it will not .Marketing: yeah , I think {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: But then it's a little bit {disfmarker}Marketing: No , but if if {disfmarker} like this , I'll I'll point it out , if you got uh aa a base a base like this ,Industrial Designer: But it's just an idea .Marketing: I won't draw it really . If you got a base which is uh as big as this {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: But it's flat it's flat as as this , so we canp make all the products as flat as this .User Interface: You can . But i i i it's backwards .Marketing: Yeah sure , but if you got if you got a tiny player , it can {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yes , but whenyou make uh uh a bit of big {gap} {disfmarker}User Interface: But it's it's backwards . It's leaning . It's leaning backwards , I think , in the in the docking station .Marketing: Yeah . Uh , wha what you could do if you uh{disfmarker} from the bottom {disfmarker}User Interface: That's text . {vocalsound}Marketing: oh , right , help .Project Manager: But {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Uh , you could make like ahole in it , you know , of uh {disfmarker} in in the {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yes , little holer {disfmarker} littler {disfmarker} Uh , little products go deeper in it .Marketing: Yeah . That i that is possible , yep.Project Manager: Well let's ha let's talk about the docking station later , because uh maybe we have we have to uh consider the docking station anyway , because we have some uh cost issues {vocalsound} still tocome .Marketing: Yeah , sure , you're right .Industrial Designer: Yes . And uh uhMarketing: Oh .Project Manager: But we have to look n I don't know .Industrial Designer: the f the look and feel would be great on this uhremote control , because uh you always uh will uh pick up the remote control in the in the smallest uh area .Marketing: I don't like the colours . Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Then your uh leftthumb of uh {disfmarker} your right thumb is uh near the programme uh button , which is the most common used uh function , and all the other buttons are available for your uh thumb .Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: So it's it's it's really good design .Marketing: Yeah . Alright .Project Manager: Yes . That's it ?Industrial Designer: Yes , uh on the side uh there will be a strip of rubber , and in the middle uh there isuh a hard uh a hard material , a bit hard plastic with a light uh behind it .Marketing: The light . Okay . And other lights ?Project Manager: I think added lights are gonna be a problem too .Industrial Designer: Yes , wecan make also n neon lights on it , or or the buttons that can make uh light on it .Marketing: No , o on the on the front . Yeah , okay . Maybe the uh the logo .Industrial Designer: Yes .User Interface: {gap} lights?Industrial Designer: But , it will also uh uh use batteries ,Marketing: Yeah , why not ?Industrial Designer: and do we want to {disfmarker}Marketing: Of course .Project Manager: Okay . For now , uh this is uh is goodenough .User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: Yeah , what was uh on the {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: The {disfmarker} all the aspects of the interface buttons were uh {disfmarker}ProjectManager: Okay , but in the {disfmarker} oh yeah , the colour , because we're gonna use uh one colour for the the plastic enclosure and one colour for the rubber , isn't it ? Then we're gonna do the buttons in the i arewe're gonna have rubber buttons .Industrial Designer: Yes .Project Manager: And they're be a {disfmarker} {gap} they'll be in the same colour as the rubber on the side .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yes.Marketing: Uh , in the same colour as the side .User Interface: Yeah . Yeah . Yeah .Marketing: Yeah , I think I think that'll be good .Project Manager: Okay . And I think we should use a a darker colour for the umplastic , and maybe some more m brighter and flashy stuff {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yes , maybe we can use on the on the lights on the side we can use uh uh multiple uh lights ,Marketing: Yes .IndustrialDesigner: so it will uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah , we'll talk about the lights later . 'Cause I also don yeah ,Industrial Designer: Yes .Marketing: Yep .Project Manager: it's depends on the costs and such . Butuh , and we have to agree uh upon the exact colours ,Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: but may I dunno if that's important , but we'll talk about that later . Okay , for now this is this is okay .Marketing: We will.Project Manager: Um , the next p y you gonna give a presentation too ? Uh , I have to see the agenda .Industrial Designer: No .Marketing: Well , uh yeah , I I'm gonna do something right there , yeah .IndustrialDesigner: {gap}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Detail design .Marketing: We gotta do that on the right {vocalsound} {disfmarker} the most {disfmarker} right-most screen , because the leftmost{disfmarker}Project Manager: Evaluation criteria .Marketing: Yep , that's me .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Okay .Marketing: Alright . I will be needing that image , so leave it please . Um {disfmarker} Goaway . Right , we're gonna evaluate that design according to a few points . {vocalsound} Um , we g the four of us are going to do that um together .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: I wanna have a colour overhere , come on . Right , the remote {vocalsound} is not ugly , a bit weird sentence , but the positive things has to be on the left , so I {vocalsound} said not ugly instead of ugly .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing:Uh , what would you say , we we gotta give points to uh to all of these to evaluate uh that design , and please forget the drawing skills of these guys .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} The remote control is not ugly . How do you feel ?Project Manager: Yeah , I think four maybe would be appropriate , because it's {disfmarker} Yeah , maybe it reallydepends on taste . Uh , I mean it's kind of {gap} , our design . It's {disfmarker}Marketing: Yes .Project Manager: so if maybe a lot of people find it really ugly , you know , o other people find it really cool .IndustrialDesigner: Yeah .Marketing: Background colour .Project Manager: I don't know or uh I don't know how you {disfmarker} Casting . Yeah .Industrial Designer: I think I think the the fronts will give it a more uh uh uh lessuglier uh side , because you can uh make it in your own {disfmarker}Marketing: How do you guys feel ? The different designs .Industrial Designer: yes , you can make it in your own uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yes.User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: more to your own personality or or house style .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Yeah , but we d we didn't {disfmarker} we're we're not planning to use fronts , I believe.Marketing: No , not not fronts , but different designs .Project Manager: With a colour a co a colours . Oh , okay .User Interface: No , not fronts . Different designs . Different colours maybe , yeah .Industrial Designer:Yes .Marketing: And that's still uh uh , yeah , is is uh is a little personal touch , I guess .Project Manager: Okay , but {disfmarker} Oh , maybe we should do three or something that w you know , our"}
{"doc_id":"doc_20","qid":"","text":"Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So in last meeting we have discussed the conceptual design and we asked you to prepare a prototype for the for the remote control .User Interface: {vocalsound}Okay .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} So {gap} . {vocalsound} So let's see the {disfmarker} what did you prepare .User Interface: Yeah , so can you go outto the shared folder ? Mm the shared folder .Project Manager: Sh share folder for th your presentation ?User Interface: Yes . We have a presentation .Project Manager: Because I have here {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Uh {disfmarker} {gap} So I got the participant uh three . W uh {vocalsound} . Three . It's the final design , yeah .Project Manager: Okay just one {gap} .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} S so so I discussed with Guillaume .Industrial Designer: Mm . {vocalsound} Yeah .User Interface: Right . {vocalsound} And uh {vocalsound} so we have{vocalsound} {disfmarker} and we we are both agreed on some two versions of the prototypes , because we were no not decided whether we wanted to have an L_C_D_ or not because it's too expensive . So we comeup with two versions . One with and one without L_C_D_s . Um but both comes with a charger and then detachable and uh or {gap} control module . And detachable big buttons for all people um . So {vocalsound}.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} S okay so I'll show you the the two prototypes {vocalsound} . Here we have the first one with the beautiful uh L_C_D_ um display . You you can s here . And you can uh just umbrowse into the the navigation menu by uh joystick joystick-like uh button .User Interface: Mm .Industrial Designer: You can uh choose the direction and if you just push on it it's considered like a enter function .UserInterface: Mm . Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: You have on the mm on the side here the microphone for the {vocalsound} for the speech recognition system here .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Andhere the the switch that control if you want {disfmarker}Project Manager: Why you why you you put it in the the side ?Industrial Designer: Well I I I think uh it's the {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's not a good placemaybe {gap} .Industrial Designer: Yeah but {disfmarker}User Interface: No i i it's the all around camer uh microphone isn't it . The the microphone picks up the speeches from anywhere .Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Is it an only a single mic or a microphone array ?Industrial Designer: Well so it's a microphone array .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh it's very costly , microphone array {vocalsound}.Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} NoUser Interface: Yeah {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: it's just a single microphone , and you {disfmarker} I I think uh we we put it here because I thinkwhen you when you are browsing your L_C_D_ you will be close to {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: well it's better to to to place it here th than here , for instance .User Interface:Yeah {vocalsound} yeah .Marketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: And here is a little switch that control if you want the the speaker uh recognition system to um to be on or off . And uh so this remote control comes upwith its charger .Project Manager: How much does it cost this one ?Industrial Designer: Well this this prototype is um made for about uh well fi fi fifteen fifteen dollarsUser Interface: For the {disfmarker}ProjectManager: Fifteen dollars ?User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} fifteen dollars ,Project Manager: Ah it's above it's above the budget .Industrial Designer: but uh well it's not it's not uh {disfmarker}yeah , but uh it's just a prototype and if we uh if we optimises the um the uh {disfmarker} voila .Marketing: The cost would be le reduced .Industrial Designer: Yeah the {gap} and the the production costs we we canachieve uh about ten dollars . {gap}User Interface: Mm . Hmm .Project Manager: How many b battery is there ?Industrial Designer: How many , excuse me ?Project Manager: Battery .Industrial Designer: Well uh fbattery , we use uh about uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Is it n the two A_A_s batteries in it .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: A_A_ rechargeable batteries .Industrial Designer: Rechargeable of course ,UserInterface: Yeah rechargeable batteries .Industrial Designer: because we have the charger .User Interface: We have the charger so it's no problem .Industrial Designer: Yeah and you just {disfmarker}Project Manager:So one one battery ?Industrial Designer: On uh yeah one battery .Marketing: Is that two or one ?User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: It's kinetic reserve .User Interface: {vocalsound} Actually uh it's a flexiblething .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: You just n uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Now what is the whole day rating for that ?Industrial Designer: The {disfmarker} excuse me?Marketing: Whole day's rating .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: What type of battery ?Industrial Designer: Oh yeah it's just a r uh simple battery a rechargeable uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah yeah.Industrial Designer: if you uh like it's exist .Marketing: Something like a two A_ , A_ three size batteries ?Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah {vocalsound} .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Soand if you want to charge the battery you just put the remote control like that to plug in the the chargerUser Interface: Yeah . Yeah .Industrial Designer: and uh leave it uh alone , it's alright .User Interface: Mm .{vocalsound} At uh {vocalsound} yeah .Industrial Designer: Then the next time you pick it , ohProject Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: it works {vocalsound} .User Interface: I forgot to tell you there is onlya single button there , b this button {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah just explain the button uh Norman .User Interface: yeah alright . This button is like the mouse {disfmarker} is like a joystick ,IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}User Interface: you can move in three hundred and sixty degrees of direction so you can make a turn and it {disfmarker} the additi functions associated to all the actions you ma you have a clickyou have a double click all in a single button {vocalsound} .Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: You can move up , down , left , right , or you can do a swing . So a swing to the left ,a swing to the right defines other functions . So even though it's a single button , but it is pretty s flexible because of the three hundred and sixty degree movement {vocalsound} .Marketing: And the L_C_D_ is this one, on the remote ?User Interface: Yeah . This is the version y that comes with L_C_D_ .Industrial Designer: Yep .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: Here I present another version without the L_C_D_ .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Project Manager: I think it's not a good idea because after maybe one or two months of function is {gap} getting destroyed .User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: If youUser Interface: Uh okay this is newprototype uh {vocalsound} .Project Manager: {gap} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah it's {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So we have the the second version also with the differentuh button configuration . The second version is also simpler , we d uh we had just uh I have to put the microphone also {vocalsound} .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: So basically th it's the same uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Uh-huh and also the switch .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: yeah {vocalsound} .Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay .IndustrialDesigner: Basically it's the same uh things uh uh as uh I presented before . But here we have uh we have uh four buttons for navigation . Press one button uh acting as a a enter button .User Interface: Mm .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So um yeah according to what you said it's more robust to the user .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: And uh it'salso cheaper to produce . We can produce uh such remote control for about uh four dollars . {vocalsound}Project Manager: No four dollars , it's {vocalsound} {gap} good . {gap}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing:And I think you forgot a point here to have an button to find the charger ,User Interface: Oh noMarketing: because that's a major that's a {disfmarker}User Interface: th actually th we'll come to that point in our{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah it's it's it's embed in the uh speech recognition system .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: OkayIndustrial Designer: So {disfmarker}Marketing: and if you disable speech recognitionsystem then ?User Interface: W w I'll I'll come to that point later on .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} so Norman will explain to you {vocalsound} .Marketing: Mm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm .Project Manager: Andwe will we will serve the charger with this ?User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: Yeah yeah of course mm {gap} .User Interface: Th they {vocalsound} either these with the {disfmarker} uh thethe charger anyProject Manager: With the remote control .User Interface: in either versions you they they ha they use the same charger yeah .Project Manager: Okay so the price of the charger included in the{disfmarker}User Interface: Uh it's a standard module so you should get it for a cheap price uh {vocalsound} .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Thank thank you{vocalsound} .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: And so mm-hmm .User Interface: It's that same charger that you can use for the hand-phone but uh again depends on the types . I thinkwe have to investigate more on that , but {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Project Manager: The price should be below twelve and a half Euro .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah . YeahProject Manager: Well that's{disfmarker} so {disfmarker}User Interface: but as the Marketing Manager says , people is willing to {disfmarker} people are willing to pay more for good design .Project Manager: We have we have just {vocalsound}{disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah people are willing to pay more ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: but the company is not willing to invest more at the moment .Project Manager:The price of selling is twenty five Euros .User Interface: Yeah . Yeah . Mm-hmm .Project Manager: And the price of production {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Alright please uh go onNorman with the special features {vocalsound} .Marketing: Or uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah we'll we'll come up to that , the the the thing that makes this the controller cheap is that it is modular so you wantmore function you pay more . If you want less function i i if you want a reasonable price you pay for the functions that you add on to the system ,Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: so is uh modular .ProjectManager: That's for this basis function and if you want more you pay more .User Interface: Yeah yeah ,Project Manager: {gap}User Interface: for example the L_C_D_ , you can take it you can put it {disfmarker} put itback in , or you can use the other one ,Marketing: Something like customised . YeahProject Manager: Yeah .User Interface: or {vocalsound} the speech recogniser with the microphone yeah yeah .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}User Interface: You want a microphone to put in the {vocalsound} speech recogniser you don't wan you pay less for the system you see {vocalsound} .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager:Okay .Marketing: Mm hmm hmm hmm .Project Manager: {gap}User Interface: So {disfmarker}Marketing: Hmm okay .User Interface: It's pretty flexible in the yeah price {vocalsound} .Industrial Designer: {gap} Youalso have the the the two other modules for the parental controlProject Manager: But {disfmarker}User Interface: Uh yeah yeah you should present that .Industrial Designer: that that you ca you can add up{vocalsound} to the {disfmarker} to your remote controlMarketing: And this is other one ?User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: i i if you uh if you want to to have more more power on what you do , and uhwhich channel you want to choose and so on .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .Industrial Designer: H here is just the the the module for the kids and th if the parents want to watch T_V_ , up {disfmarker} they comeup with their modules ,Marketing: Mm hmm hmm hmm .Industrial Designer: they just plug in itUser Interface: Yeah {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and they can have all the control they want here .User Interface:Mm .Industrial Designer: We also have this module for uh old people with big buttons , clearly labelled ,User Interface: Hmm . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and it acts like the previous one ,User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: you just plug in and it works .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: the i the idea the the conceptual idea is that simplicity and powerful . Simplicitymeaning that we have few buttons , powerful is that all the controls with {vocalsound} the one you saw we saw earlier in the meetings with lots of buttons n but here you only have few buttons but you retain the mmthe same powerful functionalities . But in addition with simplicity . So that's the best idea , the cond that that's our uh an innovation um uh i in this uh design here {vocalsound} .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .UserInterface: Okay now we come to other important features that I did not tell you . The first one is the speech recogniser , again it's detachable or add-on . And then we also have security feature for example this here{disfmarker} oop {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: it's very robust {gap} , it doesn't break and the material , what's the material again ?Industrial Designer: The titaniumProject Manager:Titanium .Industrial Designer: and so it's very uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Again uh and the battery life is uh is an is an endurable one , again because this is A_A_ batteries you can choose the types of battery youwant .Marketing: Yeah that's fine .User Interface: Lithium-ion may be a good one , but you can replace it with cheaper one , again you pay for what you get , and then um y the other p points are robust andmisplacement reminder . So when you finish watching your T_V_ {vocalsound} and you the you t you turn off the T_V_ , uh and then there's this message coming out that uh please put that back to the charger , so sothat's the {disfmarker} or is it {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay .User Interface: that's the reminder part . Yeah and um {disfmarker} And it also use a programmable channel and vocabulary , so we didn't define thevocabulary so it's up to the user to defineMarketing: Mm hmm hmm hmm .User Interface: so {disfmarker} sorry ? {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound}User Interface: And then uh because of the chil because children are using the device so we have also a a {gap} of T_V_ programmes by genre , and this can be used by the adult or by the children . Soinstead of choosing the channel you are choosing the T_V_ contents of the night . So it's pretty powerful , and that's that's why the num buttons are reduced , because of this feature . Yeah . And {vocalsound} and forthe materials that is cheap to produce I think uh it's quite clear from {disfmarker} yeah {vocalsound} .Project Manager: {gap}User Interface: And also like the {gap} and the fancy designs yeah .Project Manager: Whatwhat's {disfmarker}User Interface: Maybe we can improve more on the design but {vocalsound}Project Manager: Maybe yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: What's the price to p to produce ?UserInterface: {disfmarker} uh this is the {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Well so the price to produce {disfmarker} For uh the simplest one , say we start from four dollars to produce such a device .ProjectManager: With with with the charge ?Industrial Designer: Uh it's about it {disfmarker} The {disfmarker} without without the chargerMarketing: With the charger ?Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Yeah{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: it's about uh well two dollars to produce uh the microphone and speech recognition systems .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Two dollars for the uh for the add-onmodules , and finally three dollars for the charger . So if you uh sum up uh everything wi with the L_C_D_ {vocalsound} , which costs two dollar , you have two plus four plus four plus two plus two .User Interface:{vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: We don't have charger . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I think we can use Excel {vocalsound} .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} It's about {vocalsound}{disfmarker}Project Manager: We don't have all the options {vocalsound} .Industrial Designer: so the total cost if you if you want all the fuct functionalities will be about uh fifteen dollars .Project Manager: Charger wedon't have charger here either .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: No it'sIndustrial Designer: But it's just if you want all functionalities .Project Manager: it's below the the the budget .User Interface:Yeah {vocalsound} .Industrial Designer: Excuse me ?Project Manager: It's below the bu the budget .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah it's a nice inputProject Manager: We {disfmarker}Marketing: but wehave an other inputs from the l public demands .Project Manager: {gap}Marketing: I think we will just have a rough look and then we can make our statements , and we can finalise the product based on this discuUserInterface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: I think we can just go to my presentation then . We can wind up . Or we could uh come to some f uh final conclusions .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Sothe marketing made an evaluation criteria and these were some of the findings , and uh in the market the people are not really interested with L_C_D_ , without L_C_D_ , with speech recognition interface , or withoutspeech recognition interface , but most of the people what they are interested is {disfmarker} first thing is , they want to have an fancy look and feel , it should be very fancy with colourful and uh very handy to hold.User Interface: {vocalsound} Mm .Marketing: And the second thing is it should be much more technologically innovative .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Of course in that we could put L_C_D_ or recognitionto be more technologically innovative . And the third one is easy to use .User Interface: Mm .Industrial Designer: Well I think that the technical in innovation is is in the product itself since we haven't yet a remote whoare allowing to to choose interactively with the T_V_ screen uh uh with just four buttons .Marketing: Okay and if we go to the next slide , here you can find {disfmarker} these are the latest fashion updates , and so this{disfmarker} in Paris and Milan {gap} they have detected this trends that the this year it's going to be an year of fruit and vegetable , so people are really interested to see if they have an remote in the shape of thefruit or a vegetable , or whatever they like .User Interface: Spongy spongy . Mm mm .Marketing: So I think it should be much more customised to make a different uh shapes .User Interface: Mm {vocalsound} mm.Marketing: And the second thing is , and if the material , they really do not want it to be very hard , as in the case of very pl plastic or titanium , it should be somewhat spongy .User Interface: But the the problem isthat uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker} is it robust to mishandling ?Industrial Designer: Okay .User Interface: We have {disfmarker} you should find a material that is robust at the same time spongy {vocalsound}.Industrial Designer: A sponge . {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah so uh {vocalsound} so finally we have these three criterias .User Interface: Spongy {vocalsound} .Marketing: One is fancy look , second is innovative , andthird is easy to use .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} So these are the f uh three criteria on which we are going to build our remote .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: So {disfmarker} and wehave an evaluation criteria for each one of these ,Industrial Designer: Hmm .Marketing: say that we have a seven point scale , from one to seven ,User Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: and for each of the product youcould just give me the scale according to this .User Interface: Mm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: So now you have with L_C_D_ and without L_C_D_ ,User Interface: Mm .Marketing: so on this scale , if it"}
{"doc_id":"doc_21","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: So welcome . The first kick-off meeting . What shall we do ? First the opening , then the rest . What are we going to do . We m have to make a new remote control .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Project Manager: It has to be original , trendy and user-friendly . So we will get back th on that . First we have to make a functional design . After that we have to make a conceptual design , and then afterthat a detailed design . So we'll discuss that later . First we have a look at {gap} . So first to {disfmarker} we have to make a small painting . What have {disfmarker} do we have to do . First you can save thedocuments . We have to do that every time we make something . You can print it . No . And we have to use {vocalsound} the pen and the eraser . So {disfmarker} Now . We all have to use this one .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}Project Manager: You have to make your own favourite animal .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So I'll make an example .Marketing: Yep .Project Manager: First don't touch that things.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} You can use the pen . And then you can make {vocalsound} um something .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Nice .Marketing: {vocalsound}{vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um you can change some things .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um format , line , and change it . {gap} {disfmarker} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Andyou can change the colour .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: An elephant . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} So that's it . {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So {disfmarker} So and after it you have to save it .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Now we can make a new one .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager:You have to paint now . {vocalsound} So you're next .Marketing: Oh . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: 'Kay .Marketing: Well we will try . Where it going ?Industrial Designer: {gap} .UserInterface: Hmm . That's uh strange . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {gap} .Project Manager: What is going on ?Industrial Designer: {gap} pop-ups .Project Manager: What are you {disfmarker} What ?Marketing:Hmm .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {gap} .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: What is this , Pictionary .Marketing:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Uh a bird .Project Manager: Is a {disfmarker} It is a {disfmarker} It is a{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Bird .Project Manager: A duck .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: So {disfmarker} Now save?Project Manager: Yes .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Hmm .Marketing: Now uh blank ?Project Manager: Blank , yes .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay next one .{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Okay . Let's try this . Uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Whoo .Marketing: Yeah , yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound} Um . Mm-hmm . Mm .ProjectManager: {vocalsound} Oh . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Oh not . Oh . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay . Okay . Yeah . No problem .Marketing:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Shit happens . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} I'm not getting anything uh on my screen now . Okay .Industrial Designer: A parrot . Ish .Marketing: Wow . Oh.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: He did it before .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: No , no . Yeah . Okay .Marketing:{vocalsound} Nice .Project Manager: Very good .Industrial Designer: Oh .User Interface: Uh blank .Industrial Designer: Thank you .Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay . Very good . So um you can always go back . {gap} So {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} That's it . So that was two . Now next . The budget .The b Uh we will sell the t at twenty five Euros . And we have only twenty of twelve and a half Euro to make it . So {vocalsound} now we have to think about what we will make . First I wanna hear from you . Uh whatare your experiences with remote controls . So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Uh I will start .Project Manager: F first {gap} .Industrial Designer: Uh {disfmarker} {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:Big one , they are uh not easy to use . Um I have one set and uh a remote control , when I dropped it , uh it broke . So that won't be uh our goal , I think .User Interface: No .Industrial Designer: And uh g big buttons ,{vocalsound} m uh that's easier to use than uh {disfmarker} I think . Not all the small buttons , you don't know {disfmarker}Project Manager: Is this positive or negative , that uh big buttons ?Industrial Designer: Bigbuttons , positive .Project Manager: Positive .Industrial Designer: All all small buttons like when you have uh like a hundred buttons on your remote control , you won't know what they're working for .Project Manager:Okay . What are your experiences ?User Interface: Uh well I think the the the goal of a remote control is that it's it it has an influence on the T_V_ set .Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: And that it controls thechannels and the the volume . And uh I I I think it's positive if there's a a LED uh uh a LED on the corner of the of the remote . So that you know it s it still has batteries on it {disfmarker} in it . And that if you push thebutton the LED uh gives a light , and uh and you see that it's working . And uh yeah . Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: So and do they always have that ?User Interface: Yeah , but {disfmarker} No no no . But I{disfmarker} my my experience is that it it it's convenient to have that .Project Manager: It's easy to you .User Interface: Yeah . Yeah .Project Manager: Okay . 'Kay .Marketing: Uh at home we have a T_V_ , a video uhrecorder , a D_V_D_ player , and a satellite receiver . We have uh four distinctive remote controls for that .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Thank you .Marketing: That's not really ea easy .Industrial Designer: Helpalso . {vocalsound} Thank you .Marketing: So it would be nice if we have one for all . And we also had a remote control for our radio set . But um i it it had a lot of buttons on it , and you didn't know which one waswhat . And it was uh uh v {vocalsound} not easy to use . So we n barely used it .Project Manager: Okay so they have too much . So next .User Interface: Hmm .Project Manager: For our own remote control we have tothink how do we make it . So what ideas do you have for it , for the new remote control ? What what does it have to have ? {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: The weight . Not not too heavy .Project Manager: Not tooheavy . Yes .Industrial Designer: Not much buttons .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Bust-free . That when you drop it , it won't break . Like uh some kind of rubber on it . Or hard uh hard plastic . Uhbuttons not too small . Uh something like when you uh lose your uh remote control , sometimes it happen . Uh it between the couch and you can't find it .Project Manager: Yes .Industrial Designer: When you push a buta button on the T_V_ , then you hear some {gap} {disfmarker} uh some sort of bleep .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Like a phone .Industrial Designer: And then you uh , hey there there's remotecontrol .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So ,Industrial Designer: Next .ProjectManager: that's {gap} .User Interface: Yeah well that's {disfmarker} that are good ideas . Uh {disfmarker} Yeah well the LED on the corner , that that indicates that it's working . If you push a button . Um{disfmarker} Yeah . And looking on the budget , not too expensive uh material . So probably plastic or something . Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah I think ituh {disfmarker} from a marketing point of view , it also has to look nice . Or you won't sell it .Project Manager: Yes .Marketing: And um yeah uh on our website we can see what products we already have . And it shouldwork with as many uh as possible of them .Project Manager: Okay . This is {disfmarker} It has to be compatible with other things .Marketing: Yes .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: I have one more idea .Just popped up .Project Manager: Yes ?Industrial Designer: Uh it it won't take a lot of batteries . So you don't {disfmarker} won't have to change the batteries uh once a week or uh once every two weeks .ProjectManager: No battery use . So more ideas ?User Interface: Mm no .Project Manager: No okay . It's only the first ideas . So {vocalsound} uh what are we going to do now is {disfmarker} Next meeting is in half an h hour. Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Okay . Next meeting , half an hour . Um , what you have to do . Well look on your {gap} . And {disfmarker} Next instructions you'll get in your email . So {disfmarker} This is the firstmeeting . See you later in half an hour .User Interface: Yes .Industrial Designer: Okay . Thank you .Marketing: Okay ."}
{"doc_id":"doc_22","qid":"","text":"Lynne Neagle AM: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee. We've received apologies for absence from Suzy Davies, and I'm very pleased to welcome Angela Burns,who is substituting for Suzy this morning. We've also received apologies from Dawn Bowden. Can I also welcome Siân Gwenllian to the meeting? Siân is joining us from her constituency office via video-conference. CanI ask Members if they've got any declarations of interest, please? Hefin.Hefin David AM: Apologies. I'm currently registered as an associate lecturer at Cardiff Metropolitan University, although I haven't done any workfor them for some time.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Thank you very much. We'll move on, then, to item 2 this morning, which is our evidence session on the higher education new academic year allocations. I'm verypleased to welcome David Blaney, who is chief executive of the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales, and Bethan Owen, who is deputy chief executive of HEFCW. Thank you, both, for attending this morning.We're looking forward to hearing what you've got to say. If you're happy, we'll go straight into questions from Members, and the first questions are from Angela Burns.Angela Burns AM: Good morning. Thank you verymuch, indeed. I just wanted to talk about, really, the financial sustainability of the higher education sector because, as we know, there's been all sorts of things going on in the press. So, can I just start with, actually,quite a technical question and ask you what the financial indicators look like for the universities here in Wales, and are there particular indicators that are really flashing warning signals to you?Dr David Blaney: Well,shall I just start with a couple of contextualising comments and Bethan can come in then with some detail? It's undeniably the case there are financial challenges facing our universities. They result from three maincauses: one is the impact of the demographic dip of 18-year-olds, which is deeper and longer in Wales than it is elsewhere in the UK. There are increased pension costs and, actually, increased costs generally. And, ofcourse, we also have current uncertainty as a result of the Augar review in England, and whether that might play into Wales, and also Brexit. These challenges are not unique to Wales; the majority of the UK universitiesare actually taking out cost one way or another. So, this is not a Welsh issue. Before the Diamond review of fees and funding in Wales, there was a pre-existing funding gap in resource between England and Wales, andeven now, that's still the case. So, Welsh higher education institutions are approximately £40 million worse off than they would be in the English system. That's a challenge, and that is a result from a political decision toinvest in students, and that's fine. The money's gone into the system but it hasn't gone into universities, necessarily. So, these are serious challenges for institutions to manage, but I think it is a managed situation.We're not seeing a crisis; we are seeing some real challenges, and there is a distinction, I think, between—. We have to understand, though, that taking out cost to balance the books has a detrimental effect on thecapacity. Obviously it impacts on the people who lose their jobs immediately, but there's a medium to longer term impact on the capacity of the system to deliver for Wales. They are taking out capacity; they're notcutting at fat now, they're cutting out core capacity. And so, the range of the curriculum, the range of research and innovation, the range of the contribution that universities can make will be diminished by that. Andagainst that backdrop, the introduction of the Diamond reforms is hugely important—delivery of that is going to be really important—and we are really pleased to see the Minister able to meet her commitments inrespect of that. The Diamond money is coming in. This forthcoming year will be the first year we see an increase in the resource, through us, to higher education. And the projections in future years are better still, andthat will be extremely important. The performance of the sector is very good; we had the national student survey results out yesterday. Wales is still the best in the UK, which is excellent. We have the best impact fromresearch in Wales across the UK. So, all of that is very positive, but that is also being done at some cost. There are some very tired staff in universities, and we've seen some stuff in the press recently about some of theimpact of stress there as well.Angela Burns AM: Can I bring you back to the financial element of that? Can I just ask a question: what are the university reserves looking like at present?Dr David Blaney: Here, I refer tomy learned friend.Bethan Owen: The reserves are a measure. There's a difference between the distributable reserves—I don't have those numbers before me, but looking at reserves, what is more important are thosereserves that are available as cash or liquid cash. So, universities have reserves, but a large amount of that is tied up in their estates, so they're not immediately realisable. So, one of the key measures that we'relooking at, which is even more important than surpluses and deficit, is the operating cash that our universities are generating at the moment. When we look at operating cash in 2017-18, they were generating, as apercentage of income, about 7.6 per cent, which contrasts with nearly 10 per cent for the same year for English institutions. And that represents their capacity to generate surplus cash to meet their costs, which now,increasingly, include the costs of servicing their borrowings. So, again, because capital funding has not been as available to universities as it was, they've invested in their estates and that's largely been funded byborrowings. The costs of those borrowings have to be met on an annual basis, so that's becoming an increasing proportion of the operating cash that universities have.Angela Burns AM: I just asked that questionbecause I know that about four years ago, the universities were sitting on substantial reserves and were less than keen to deploy them back into actually using them for the students—it was more about building up thewar chest, if you like, of the universities. And I just really wanted to have an understanding of how that picture might have changed over the last four years and are they actually skinnier cats now, rather thanbefore.Bethan Owen: We can get you that analysis, but even four years ago, I think the definition of exactly what's meant by reserves, it's really important to look at what are distributable reserves as opposed to theassets that universities have.Angela Burns AM: Yes, I do understand the difference.Bethan Owen: And, there are also differences in the way that universities have secured funding for investing in their estates. So, forexample, Cardiff University have had a bond rather than borrowing, which you draw down as you're spending. So, in the short term, the reserves of Cardiff will appear as though they have significant cash balances, butall of those are restricted for investment in the estate and, over the next two or three years, will be utilised for that.Angela Burns AM: So, overall, you're painting a picture of a sector that's under a significant degree offinancial stress, and this is obviously using your key financial indicators. Do you monitor each and every university, or do you wait for them to come back and tell you what their situation is?Bethan Owen: We monitor,we receive forecasts, five-year forecasts, and we meet frequently with all our universities now. It varies, depending on the risks of the universities, as to how frequently we meet, but we're actually meeting with everyuniversity because even the forecast that we received last July, the changes, even in the 12-month period, are significant enough for us to need a better understanding of what the latest position is. The forecasts, if Ijust run through—. We had a sector that, in 2017-18, had a deficit. Although it had a turnover and income of £1.5 billion, which had increased, nonetheless it had a small deficit of 0.4 per cent of income in 2017-18,which was an improvement on the deficit the year before of 1.7 per cent, but notably, again, the sector in England were looking at surpluses of 3 per cent to 4 per cent in the same period. The forecasts that we had thistime last year were indicating that, for 2018-19, we should have a sector that's roughly in a break-even position, but that has to be caveated with waiting for new forecasts in July, where there will have to be areflection of the pension costs, and there have been significant changes in pension costs, both for the teachers' pension scheme and the universities' superannuation scheme as well, and those will be significantcosts that universities have to build into their forecasts at a time when their income, certainly their fee income, is not increasing, and that is the challenge.Angela Burns AM: Are we going to lose any universities in thenext couple of years?Dr David Blaney: I don't think so. As I said earlier on, we're not seeing a crisis, we're seeing really challenging circumstances for institutions to manage. At the moment, our sense is they aremanaging them, so one of the things we try to do is to make sure that, insofar as we can see it, we are making sure that the institutions are alert to the challenges they're facing, and are actually engaging thosechallenges properly, and we are seeing that at the moment. So I think what we will see if the pressure continues unabated is more costs being taken out, so more jobs being lost, more capacity being lost, but that's notthe same as falling over. I don't see people falling over. There is always the possibility of structural change within the sector, and that might be one of the solutions that institutions think about, but it's not a policyposition, and it's not always a good short-term response to crisis anyway, actually. But I think, as I say, we're in a managed situation, but the challenges are quite acute. But I don't see an institution falling over in theforeseeable future.Angela Burns AM: When you talk about structural change, are you referring to the fact that certain offshoots or divisions might close? I bring this up because I'm the Assembly Member for CarmarthenWest and South Pembrokeshire, and I have had multiple representations from students, and their parents, who are about to go to Lampeter and who've been told that courses are being restructured, there's a massivestaff loss, and they have concerns about whether the three-year commitment they're about to make to a course is going to be able to be sustained. So I am trying to drill down a little bit, because I think it's only fair forthe students to know what they're up against, and also it's a bit like in the great depression—you can start a run on something, can't you? Because if enough people believe it, then suddenly enough people will stopgoing to what is an excellent little university, really top-quality in medieval literature, in archaeology. And I'm just talking about one, but I know there are problems in other universities around Wales, so I just wonderedif you could comment on that and also what processes you as HEFCW might have in place to protect any student who does find themselves in a situation where their course appears to be disappearing before theireyes.Dr David Blaney: So, there's quite a lot in that question, actually. Let me try not to forget any of the elements. First of all, your comment about causing a run is a serious consideration. So, if we look at the debatethat happened in the Senedd last week, from my reading of the transcript, it was actually quite a balanced debate where pretty much every contributor made reference to the contribution that higher education ismaking. There was reference to the national student survey scores, and in many ways Wales is the best place in the UK to come and be a student, because you are looked after properly in Wales. But there was also aperfectly legitimate exploration of whether or not there's a crisis, and if you look at the way in which that was represented in the media, the crisis bit stuck and the rest of it didn't. At the point where the sector is tryingvery hard to recruit students, it's really quite unhelpful that you get that sort of representation. So we do need to make sure, I think, all of us, that we try to avoid a situation where there can be media amplification of aproblem that's not actually as acute as the media are portraying it, and that is very harsh. I'm not being critical of the political process here, but it has ripples and we do need to be careful that we don't start a run onthis. In terms of the specifics at Lampeter, we understand that there are no plans to close any of the departments, and there certainly will not be plans to pull the rug out from under continuing students. That is just notwhat institutions do. So there's an absolute obligation on them to meet their commitments, and that's a contractual obligation anyway, so it's a legal obligation. But we also have a quality machinery that we operatewhere we would expect institutions to be able to demonstrate that they've put in place appropriate arrangements to ensure that students can finish their programmes of study. So they're not going to be recruitingstudents to programmes that they're not planning to continue—they just are not going to do that. And if you think about it in a market context, it would be suicidal for a university to treat their students like that.AngelaBurns AM: But I have to ask these questions because the auditor was very clear that there was a material uncertainty in Trinity Saint David's financial plans.Dr David Blaney: Yes, I understand that, so let’s come back tothe material uncertainty. [Interruption.] No, I understand, and that's fine. What I'm hoping to try and express is that we have absolute confidence that the institutions will not do the dirty on their students. They willlook after their students and if they're recruiting to programmes, they are recruiting to programmes that they are planning to run, and run through to completion. And the expectations that we place on them in terms ofour quality assurance machinery is precisely that—when they are engaged in portfolio change, they have to look after the interest of the students that they currently have. In terms of our oversight and monitoring, ourprimary consideration, again, is the interest of the students. They are the people who have, in many ways, least influence over what happens in terms of the way an institution is managed. Although, they do have avoice and, actually, the arrangements for the student voice in Wales are, again, better than elsewhere in the UK. But, nonetheless, we do not wish to see students becoming innocent victims of difficulties ofmanagement and financing. And so that is our primary consideration when we're looking at these institutions. Our institutional risk review process is fundamentally designed to make sure that institutions are grapplingwith their problems before they become a crisis. So, we have machinery, which has 70/80 different factors and hundreds of questions that we ask twice a year, to interrogate the performance of the institutions and tomake sure that we are seeing them managing the issues that they're facing. So, it's not the challenges you face, it's the way you face your challenges—it's a cliché—and, at the moment, they are managing them, but ifwe were in any way concerned that they weren't, the people who are most at risk in that context are the students and we will be intervening to make sure that they were cited, and we do intervene when we haveto.Angela Burns AM: Well, following on from what you said, I've just got two really specific technical questions, then, to ask, because you said that you look across the whole scope to make sure that they are meeting allof their correct liquidity ratios and so on. So, considering how much is invested in their estates, are you happy that each university's estates strategy and its financing is prudent and has appropriate governing-bodyoversight in place?Dr David Blaney: Yes, so the estates strategies that institutions operate are overseen by either the full governing body or relevant sub-committees in respect of every institution, so there is propergovernance oversight. And in all of those instances, there is staff and student engagement as well in the strategic approach on estates. So, the machinery is in place—Angela Burns AM: Because it's the big thing thatdrives most of university borrowing, isn't it?Dr David Blaney: Indeed, it is.Angela Burns AM: So, if our universities are on a sticky wicket, we just need to know that the borrowing that they're undertaking is absolutelyprudently assessed and is appropriate. So, as long as you're content, if I can hear you say that—[Laughter.]Dr David Blaney: Okay. We're content on two fronts: one is that the governance machinery within theinstitutions is structured appropriately to look at that, but also that if the institutions are wanting to engage in anything other than relatively trivial borrowing, they have to get our consent as well. And what we don't dois second-guess everything, but what we do do is make sure that the governing body, or its relevant committees, have been asking the right questions. So, there are two bits to this.Angela Burns AM: Andthen—sorry.Bethan Owen: Can I just add to that, then?Angela Burns AM: Yes, of course.Bethan Owen: In asking for the forecasts, we have reinforced this year the importance of universities looking at differentscenarios. So, to be looking at the demographic and maybe in the past, where there's potentially been growth in the system and universities have built that into their forecast, we have explicitly asked this year that weare provided—not just the governing body—with the scenario where there is no growth in the income. That's not the core forecast, but a scenario, so that it's quite clear how reliant the forecasts are on that growth, andif that growth doesn't come through, what the contingency plans are for ensuring that all the cost commitments can be met. And we should probably just differentiate between—we have a role before borrowings areentered into, but all the best forecasts in the world can never quite predict, certainly what's happened in the last two years, probably, in universities. So, there are significant borrowings that are now committed to andthe key measures we are looking at are universities' capacity to meet their covenants and their repayments under those borrowings, because that's essential for maintaining their liquidity.Angela Burns AM: Whichactually, neatly, thank you, brings me to my last question, which is: have any universities broken those loan covenants or been close to breaking them, unable to pay their borrowings as and when they fall due?BethanOwen: There was a significant change in accounting standards in 2015, financial reporting standard 102, so most universities had to renegotiate their covenants, but it was because the accounts were looking verydifferent. The accounting standards brought about changes in how income was recognised and how some service concession arrangements, largely student accommodation arrangements, and pension costs,significantly, were recognised in the accounts. So, most universities have had to renegotiate covenants, but we're not aware of any who've had to renegotiate due to covenant breaches, other than one which theUniversity of Wales Trinity Saint David disclosed in their financial statements—that they did need to renegotiate their financing arrangements, which they have done earlier this year, and they have now negotiated newcovenants. It's a core part of financial management in universities now that you manage your relationship with your lender as well as with us. Breaching covenants in themselves is different to doing that with yourlender being unaware and the factors being within your control. So, again, from that perspective, we have the covenants built into our forecasts, we require the forecasts to show how the university are planning to bewithin their covenants. The nature of those covenants vary, but most of them require a measure of cash flow, a ratio between the cash generated and the cost of debt, so there is close monitoring that is requiredbecause of the borrowing in the system, as well as our ongoing monitoring as well.Angela Burns AM: Thank you, Bethan.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Just before we move on to Hefin David, can I just ask you whatyour view, then, is on the statement included by auditors in the accounts of Trinity Saint David that there is material uncertainty?Bethan Owen: Yes, I'll pick up on that. The material uncertainty largely relates—there isa note in the accounts that explains the factors that are being taken into account, but it largely relates to some significant cash receipts that have been subject to timing delays and the fact that the timing of these isessentially outside the control of the institution. The main delay relates to the receipt of funding for the Egin project, which was due to be received from the Swansea city deal. That funding has been delayed, but the"}
{"doc_id":"doc_23","qid":"","text":"Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: {gap} .Project Manager: Right . Okay . Alright . Is everyone here ? {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yep . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yep .ProjectManager: Okay . This is our conceptual design meeting . And {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I'll just take a few minutes and uh go through the previous minutes . Um then each of you will have your presentation , um andthen we will need to make a decision on the concept for the remote control . And then we'll have uh forty minutes for finishing up . Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I'll go through the mee through the minutes first . Um ,we just refreshed our our uh goal of making the finest remote control available .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um we decided that , or we know that we need to use company colours, company logo . Um {vocalsound} and our Marketing Expert uh gave us some i uh information from interviews with a hundred different remote users . Um with some statistics that backed basically what we werethinking before . People thought their remotes were ugly , um um that remotes zap a lot . Um they only use uh a finite amount of buttons .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um and that they oftenlose the {disfmarker} it's easy to lose a remote . Um which were all things we were thinking we would {disfmarker} wanna make it simple . Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} And uh some sort of locator . Either a buttonor tracking device . Um {disfmarker} And that it should look different than what's out there . Um {disfmarker} Kind of mixed mixed response on the speech recognition . The younger people said they wanted it , olderpeople did not . Um uh I think we decided that um the expense was not necessarily worth it , and that it was probably a gimmick , that um would increasingly wear on the consumers' nerves . Um {vocalsound}{disfmarker} Then the User Interface Designer um explored some of the technical functions of the remote . Um the simple versus the um the complex . The simple one being better for a user , the complex better for anengineer . Um {disfmarker} Um and some personal preferences that were found in that would be that it should be a user-oriented remote , something simple . Um and that we didn't wanna go with a universal remote ,because uh increasing cost and increasing complexity . Um we would just have a T_V_ remote . Um and that we should also focus on the appearance of the remote . Have it s be something that looks different . Andfinally our um Industrial Designer uh gave us a rundown of how the remote will work . Um from energy source , um uh what we would use . Batteries because we don't wanna have a a cable . Um {disfmarker}{vocalsound} How that would power the remote and the lamp . If we were to to have one . Uh um the user interface then would connect to a chip , {vocalsound} which would work with the infrared controls uh to sendthe signal to the T_V_ . Um {disfmarker} I believe then we came up with a couple of ideas for what we think the design of the remote will be . Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Um something that will fit into uh easilyinto someone's hand . {vocalsound} And with a , just a few buttons . Just the basics . And with a scrolling um function also . Okay and I will leave that , leave it at that . So {disfmarker} Marketing ?Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: We're watching trends .Marketing: Yep . Can I have your cable please ?Project Manager: I suppose that you can have this .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Thanks . Okay so I was lookingat trend-watching . Um unfortunately I wasn't given too much information . I was given a brief executive summary , and then an update on some recent fashion trends that we might like to look at . And then I'll just tellyou some personal preferences that I got from that . Um okay the most important finding was that the fancy look-and-feel seems to be twice as important to the users as the current functional look-and-feel design ,which I think we've kind of already discussed before . Um the second most important finding was that the remote should be technologically innovative . And again these are all things we've kind of already come up withon our own , but this just backs it up . And thirdly the remote would be easy to use . As far as fashion update , we've learned that fruits and vegetables will be the most important theme for cloths , shoes and furniture.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: So that might be a bit of a challenge to incorporate this into our remote , but we can try . Um and also , as opposed to last year , this year the material is expected to bespongy in feel . {vocalsound} Okay so from that um , as we've already said , we need to focus on a fancy look-and-feel . Um I think we've already discovered that it's kind of hard to go away from the traditionalrectangular design . But I think that , even if it's very subtle , we need to kind of trick our consumers , so they at least get the idea that they're getting something that's new and modern and sleek and {disfmarker}Whether it's through the shape or the colours or all of that . Um for technologically innovative , we've talked about the tracking device . We brought up the idea of having two pieces , which we could discuss further .And Manuel had suggested um the energy source and the user interface , discussing some of those , um that we could change a little bit . We need to keep it simple , have limited buttons , which I think the two pieceidea might be really beneficial for . {vocalsound} Um {vocalsound} we need to incorporate this fashion trend of fruits and vegetables . I don't know , I mean I guess the two options are if we had our remote in theshape of a fruit or vegetable .Project Manager: {vocalsound} A banana shape ?User Interface: Oh it was sort of banana shaped . {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah . Yeah . Right . Or with exterior designs . But myquestion is , I mean the stereotypically speaking , you kind of picture males with their remote controls , and I'm not sure how they'd feel about having fruity logos on the outside .Project Manager:{vocalsound}Marketing: So maybe we could have something that's somewhat removable , or I don't know , different options for female , male target groups . And then the spongy feel . I guess we could look at mobilephones and other technology that's out there . C and look at different types of material that {vocalsound} might please our users who want spongy-feeling remote controls . So that's that .Project Manager: So possiblylike a uh ,Industrial Designer: Alright .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: sorry , just to butt in for a second . Possibly uh like a cover like they have for mobile phones ?Marketing: That's what I was thinking yeah.User Interface: Those like , yeah , sort of spongy ones .Project Manager: You have one with a flag , and one with a banana and one that's a spongyUser Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Yeah . So when you buy your remote you can buyProject Manager: feel to it . {vocalsound} You can {disfmarker}Marketing: various coverings .Project Manager: Mm various covers .User Interface: What's it called ?Cust you {disfmarker} {vocalsound} personalised , yeah .Marketing: Personalise your remote . {vocalsound}Project Manager: We could leave that to the cover department . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah .{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} We all know they've got nothing to do all day .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Okay . Why can't I see the {disfmarker} crazy . Um yeah I {disfmarker} talking about the interface concept and how thecustomer relates to , will use the , consumer will use the actual device . Um so I've looked at some of the stuff I was sent , um , try and get some inspiration . But keep in mind that our own ideas that we had . Um I wassent some information from the company saying that they , the technology department have devised a new speech recognition technology , where you can program questions into such devices . They gave an exampleof a coffee machine where you program a question , you program the answer , and the machine responds accordingly . Um okay . There's different ways of a user can use products l like a remote . Um there's agraphical use , where you you look at pictures and well on a screen . A command line where you obviously type things in , and you get a response . Um and then it ju that's just to point out the sort of inconsistent u sortof use of interface in remotes . You can't really see that picture well , but there's various different remotes , once again with lots of different buttons on , making it more complicated .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}User Interface: So , then I had a look at new products that are on the market . Not necessarily remote controls but ones that you'll recognise . Um this is the voice , there is a voice recognition remotecontrol , which can control mus multiple devices . I have a {disfmarker} there is a picture {gap} . You surf your favourite channels uh with your voice . Store up to eighty speech samples , controls four devices , T_V_ ,cable , satellite , V_C_R_ , D_V_D_ and audio . And you can record your own v verbal labels , that are connected to remote control functions . So the technology is there . Um the one on the left is very similar to whatwe drew up on the board in the previous meeting , where there {disfmarker} has scroll down functions on the side . You can sort of just make those out . And then on the right is obviously an iPod , which is you knowpossibly one of the simplest things to use out there , and really is , and all that is is just a a nice big scroll menu that y you sort of go through . That is a {vocalsound} possibility . And nothing's simpler really . Um thenthere's things like this , which is a a a kid's remote , where the the parents have the facility to control and program what children can watch before . So the remote control it o only allows them to access the channelsthat their parents want them to watch . And um it means that th children have a novelty of having their own remote control . So I don't know {gap} if there's a possibility of having one remote contr you know like wejust had two components , maybe it can have more components you know , different remotes . Um the point made at the end there here is that you have to be sort of be {disfmarker} need to be clear on your umdevices , as to what , you know , things you use . Sometimes an arrow pointing down , which may suggest volume down , could become confused just as a V_ for volume . Just little things like that , which would need tobe made clear in the design . Um I think , d carrying on from what I've already said , a user friendly remote with minimum buttons . Maybe we've so suggested this two-part thing , where if it was to have a speechrecognition thing , you could maybe control that on the {disfmarker} do it {disfmarker} or program all that on the control bit . And then just have the simple sort of hand-held thing that we sort of devised earlier , asthe actual remote . Um I don't {disfmarker} it could be a graphical display , the actual remote contr the actual control port maybe could have like an iPod where you just sort of control through the menus . Stuff like{gap} gets more and more compli complicated . And then the the hand-held bit should be ergonomically designed . And that is it . Why am I {disfmarker} Oh yeah . Just {gap} . {gap} Where are we ? Uh . Just to sortof show you . M {gap} they've even got things like that .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Huge things . Which is just {gap} for your gr ninety year old grandma yeah ?Project Manager:{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: That's industrial design for cranes , stuff like that .User Interface: Yeah . Yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Notice the giant dog bone shape ?Marketing:{vocalsound} Dunno .Industrial Designer: Makes sense , makes sense .User Interface: And that {disfmarker} yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Also good for animals .User Interface: Yeah . See. {gap} things {gap} . {gap} . Why's my screen crazy ?Industrial Designer: Uh {disfmarker} Well let's see . I'm going to bore you with a couple of descriptions of the interior .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Just to to make it more obvious what we have to fit in there , and that we do have to fit the stuff in there . I've more information on possible materials um as well . What we can andcannot do . Um but let's just wait for this to load up and I'll show you what we're talking about here . Okay . The details of the components' design , as you can see there , what we have is the board , main board of theremote control . {vocalsound} The underside , that's pretty cheap piece of of technology really {gap} top left side you can see the chip , which is the , what we were talking about , this was is the device to recognise thesignals the input , and it passes it on to a row of um further transistors and stuff like that on the right side that actually amplify the signal , which later on is being , is being transferred to a infrared lamp which then umof course shines infrared light onto the television which then will recognise what signal um it's getting and will do what you tell it . Um {disfmarker} So much for the the workings of the of the uh remote control itself .{vocalsound} Its job is to wait for you to press a key , then to translate that key press into infrared light signals , um that are received by the television . When you press a key um you complete a specific connection .The chip senses the connection and knows what button you pressed . It produces a morse code line signal specific to that button . Right . Pretty clear . Transistor amplifies the signal and then sends the m sends thesignal to the L_E_D_ which translates the signal into infrared light . The sensor in the T_V_ can see the infrared light , and seeing the signal reacts appropriately . This is the circuit board from the other side . Um thelower part of it , I don't know if you can see that properly , with the green greenish board is is what we what we saw in the first the first slide just flipped over . Um you can see the circuit board itself . That's thecheapest uh way to make electronic connections basically on the market . Um what you do is you have , don't have cables , but you have the connections actually in these in these lines on the on the board . These arethe actual keys that are being pressed . They close the electric circuit . That then sends the signal to the chip on the other side . That would be behind here . Um which uh sends it over to the transistors and all that stuffthatMarketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: amplify the signal and all that is being sent to the infrared lamp up there . Now as you can see this is the the rubber button version of it . {vocalsound} Um the way itworks is that you have the keys here . The rubber button has a little metal uh plate on the other side , which closes the circuit here . And thus gives on the signal . Now this is the simple version . {vocalsound} Um weare talking um this this the simple and cheapest version at the same time . We are talking something more complicated of course , it's going to be more expensive as well . And not only that . Um we are also restrictedin the use of our outer shell , or in the material that we could use for our outer shell . Um {vocalsound} I've gotten some information that we could use for the case material plastic , rubber , as well . Um rubber that isused in these anti-stress balls . So it's pretty squishy . That would that would serve that purpose .Marketing: {vocalsound} Spongy ?Industrial Designer: Um {vocalsound} we could also use wood , or titanium .ProjectManager: {vocalsound} What's the approximate per hundred thousand for the titanium ? {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: OhfyaMarketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I don't have an information on that . However our company {vocalsound} obviously can provide us with uh with the titanium , so I assume , I'm , I was given an okay touse it .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} It certainly is an expensive material ,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I'm aware of that , but I was given an okay .Marketing:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: But there are certain restrictions to certain materials . Now let's first go through the list with the materials . So we what we can use is plastic , rubber , wood and titanium . Can alsomix these . Um as for the energy source , um we were talking about that shortly in the other meeting . Um what we could use is , or what I was offered , or what we could use , is a basic bateer battery . Right ? Uh adynamo . Interestingly enough .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Um we could use solar cells . Or a device that was not n not further specified that provides kinetic energy . Such as like watches you know .Where you just move them m move the the actual device and this pr uh provides it with with uh some energy . So um obviously I personally have to say that dynamo is out of the question really .Project Manager:{vocalsound}User Interface: Mm .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: You don't wanna wind up your remote control before you can use it right ? Um solar cell is interesting . {vocalsound} May fail though ,every here and there .User Interface: Would you have to leave it by the window ?Industrial Designer: Mm . YeahUser Interface: {gap} yeah . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: . Or you know you lose it , it lies behindthe couch for a weekUser Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: and {disfmarker} yeah mm .Project Manager: Works well in Arizona but in Edinburgh not so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Always the {disfmarker} you{disfmarker} But {disfmarker}Marketing: Y probably not yeah .Industrial Designer: exactly .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Um the kinetic energy thing um might work , um but the same problem . You leaveit lying around and you first have to shake it before it it starts to work .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So I'd say what we're stuck with really is um the basic battery . Which also makes a base stationbasically obsolete . We don't need that then . Um {disfmarker} However our interface options are push-buttons . In which uh in the production of which or in manufacture of which um our company is expert . Um{disfmarker} However we've discussed that scroll wheels are a better option . And they are possible . We have an okay for scroll wheels . Okay . Um however {vocalsound} when it comes to the scroll wheel of the iPodI've one big objection and that is that we have to fit an L_C_D_ into the remote control as well . This however may exclude certain um materials . If you have a squishy uh kind of remote control , then an L_C_D_screen may be affected by the movement . Hence we might not be able to put it in there . So um {disfmarker} There's also restrictions {vocalsound} to , when it comes to the chip . If we have a more sophistic uhsophisticated scroll wheel rather than this very basic uh set-up that we that I've just presented , um the chip has to be more s more sophisticated and thus more expensive as well . I don't have any details to , when itcomes to the cost but um it will be a significant difference . I'd rather say drop the titanium and therefore let's have a more sophisticated chip , but that's not up to me to decide really . {vocalsound} So that's for the forthe scroll wheel . Um it limits our choice and squishy is hip , so I'd say rather not go for for that . Let's see now . Um um solar cells cannot be used on a curved or latex um surface or um remote control . But obviouslythat's not our problem um since we have decided or against solar cells , I assume right ? Or is anybody still {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound} No I think I think batteriesare probably the way to go .Industrial Designer: alright .Marketing: No . Hmm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Alright .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Uh which makes it very conventional but thereforetraditional I assume . Um {disfmarker} Um {disfmarker} With the titanium um we cannot make it a curved design . We would just be able to make it flat and and um yeah a straight design pretty much . Which Iassume would exclude uh some of the more sophisticated versions . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: Would the sort of {vocalsound} spongy and the the plasticky thing {disfmarker} y you can get thosemobile phones that initially have a {disfmarker} it is plastic but then they have sort of a a s a cover on it which is just sort of soft and stuff .Marketing: Mm . Like a covering . Yeah .User Interface: So I don't know if that"}
{"doc_id":"doc_24","qid":"","text":"User Interface: Hmm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Good morning everybody .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Good morning . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound} Good morning .Marketing: Good morning .Project Manager: So , we are asked to to make uh uh a new remote control for television . And the characteristics of this new remote control should be originaland trendy and of course user user friendly . So people can {gap} can use it without any any problem .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {gap} .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I don'tknow .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Well , I think we should set the the points to to drive the project and uhUserInterface: Mm . B did you send us an email about this ?Project Manager: Uh , not yet ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: but if you want {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah ,we we received an email about this uh d designs . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Do you want do you want me to send you a mail ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Ah it's Okay .{vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Or you can put it in the shared folder .User Interface: Yeah , you see the email ? You {gap} email . The v very{disfmarker} no , no the first one .Marketing: No , I didn't get it .User Interface: It's inside .Project Manager: Uh {disfmarker}Marketing: This one .User Interface: No , no .Marketing: No .User Interface: The third one .Oh , you didn't get anything .Marketing: No , {gap} .User Interface: It's strange . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Mm . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {gap} .User Interface: I got an email about the dis about thediscussion . Yeah .Project Manager: You get email , {gap} . {vocalsound}User Interface: I dunno from who .Industrial Designer: Yeah , from the account manager .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}From the account manager . You have received the same email , right ?Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: I think it's for your guys to {vocalsound} how to design it all the aspects so you needthat information .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah , I think so .User Interface: Yeah , so each of us has a role to do .Marketing: YeahProject Manager: SMarketing: {vocalsound} I think {gap} assign youruh roles .User Interface: In each {disfmarker}Project Manager: For each for each one .User Interface: We already have our role .Marketing: For each person , yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound} 'Kay , we can{disfmarker}Project Manager: So there are {disfmarker} so we have three {disfmarker}User Interface: So there are three kinds of designs , that's all .Project Manager: f yeah . We have functional design , conceptualdesign , and detail design .User Interface: Okay , alright . {vocalsound}Project Manager: So , who will be the the responsible for the functional design ? Any any volunteer ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I think ouruh responsibilities will be assigned when we {disfmarker} in our mail we received from the account manager .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah , yeah .Industrial Designer: UhUser Interface: I'm doing the interface.Project Manager: You are doing thIndustrial Designer: No , I'm doing the interface . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {gap} .User Interface: Are you using the {disfmarker} you are doing the in {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: Yeah I I'm I'm {disfmarker} Well , maybe we have {disfmarker} okay so I {gap} industrial design . It was a little confusion about my uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Ah{vocalsound} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: but it's alright .Project Manager: Okay , I'll for industrial design .User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay . And and you {disfmarker}Norman ?User Interface: Mm ? Um working on i . {vocalsound} User interface . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: User .Project Manager: And {disfmarker} And {disfmarker}Marketing: Uh , I'm into marketing .ProjectManager: {gap} doing the marketing .Marketing: {gap} yeah nothing much in the project .Project Manager: Nothing related here to the {disfmarker}Marketing: Marketing in this design .User Interface: Yes .Marketing:A design is basically for industrial design and the user interface .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: You see the second mail ? Yeah , it's inside . Go down . Appendix .Marketing: Yeah , this is {gap} .UserInterface: See there's a role for everybody .Marketing: Yeah , that's right ,User Interface: Even for the marketing .Marketing: first {gap} . {gap} us user define .Project Manager: Next {gap} .User Interface: But look atyour role , your marketing role .Marketing: There's a trend watching .Project Manager: I don't know .User Interface: Yeah , that's your role .Project Manager: I {gap} .Industrial Designer: Well , I think we can have alittle discussion about what has to be doneProject Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and what are your ideas about the {disfmarker}Project Manager: About the design or {disfmarker} Maybe we'll discuss thislater , no ?Industrial Designer: Well , w we want to have a new re remote control for for T_V_ distribution I guess .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: So we have to {vocalsound} plan how how it would bedeveloped and uhUser Interface: Mm .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: how we can make it work {vocalsound} .User Interface: Yes .Marketing: I mean working remotes we already have . This will be somethingdifferent from the other remotes {disfmarker} remote controls .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: What we we have to keep in mind the {disfmarker} these characteristics .Industrial Designer: Yeah , Idunno I {disfmarker}Project Manager: And of course it should not be very costly .Marketing: Yeah , that's right .Project Manager: So {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .User Interface:Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well I I think that Norman and I would think about um the technical points and um we should discuss it in the next meeting , orUser Interface: Need to collect information .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: About the {disfmarker} about what ?User Interface: Um . {vocalsound} I I'm part of design , perhaps . Uh , what is most important in a{disfmarker} in a remote control ? What is the most important function aspect ? Uh .Project Manager: You mean the external {gap} or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Well , you have to make it work .ProjectManager: {vocalsound} Yeah of g of course .User Interface: {vocalsound} That's alright .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} That's the {vocalsound} that's the big thing .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface:Yeah , it should be easy to work with .Project Manager: Yeah {gap} .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: We can think about an interface with uh well {disfmarker}User Interface: Uh .We {disfmarker} maybe you can have a speech uh recognition interface . You just tell the television I want {disfmarker} which channel .Project Manager: You won't {disfmarker}User Interface: Or or you can say forexample , um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I want uh to list all the programme tonight . Y you know {gap} , instead of {gap} uh remote control it's doing the {disfmarker} some searching for you , so you don't have tolook for the channel you want . Just say maybe I just want to press {disfmarker} I wanna have a button for all the movies tonight . Or a button for all the magazines , all the information {disfmarker} documentarytonight . And then you list a few , and I will choose from the list . So instead of pressing the channel number , I am choosing the programmes directly . Yeah , that's one way of uh making it useful .Industrial Designer:Yeah , yeah .Project Manager: I I think if we include a lot of technology on the remote control it will be very costly .User Interface: No , because {disfmarker} no ,Project Manager: S {vocalsound}User Interface: it's notvery {disfmarker} a lot . Th this information exists . For example you can get um {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Project Manager: Like s uh you you you say we can use speech .User Interface: You can use uh {disfmarker}well for example {disfmarker} anything . {vocalsound} The {vocalsound} the idea of using speech to reduce the button , but uh and it's more natural . Yeah .Industrial Designer: I {disfmarker} I think if you want t tochoose uh from a list of programme or or something like that you you may have to to use uh w uh I dunnoMarketing: I'm a {disfmarker} okay .User Interface: Yeah . Yeah .Marketing: I mean the main uh function ofremote control is to have something in the handProject Manager: In the hand .Marketing: and we should be very careful about the size of the remote control .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .IndustrialDesigner: Yeah .Marketing: If we are going to add a speech interface , I'm not sure with {gap} trendy slim size of the remote control it would be able to put a speech recogUser Interface: Yeah . Yes , possible.Marketing: if you want to put a speech recognition system f interface for that I think the T_V_ itself could have it .User Interface: Yeah . But {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: And I could talk to theT_V_ {disfmarker} television itself .Project Manager: Except if if you are far from the T_V_ .Marketing: I need not have an {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing:I mean we have some {gap} or something , different technology but {disfmarker}Project Manager: This is {vocalsound} it's {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah , yeah . But th the main idea I wanted to s I wanted to sayis that um {vocalsound} there should be a function , instead of choosing the ch T_V_ channel , there's a option you can choose , either T_V_ channels or or pr or the or the contain or the contents of the programme.Industrial Designer: On the content .Marketing: Mm-hmm , yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah it's it's a good idea it's a good ideaProject Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: So it's more powerful . Yeah .IndustrialDesigner: but I I think that technically it would be um a little bit uh uh more tricky to to achieve this than just to {disfmarker}User Interface: No . No , because you see now all the T_V_ programmes are available onthe webs . They they are {disfmarker} they are {disfmarker} they are available in X_M_L_ format or whatever the format . We don't care . We just say that this are some content . We just want to retrieve the contentand then classi sort them by the types of programmes . Some of the websites they already provide this service ,Industrial Designer: Yeah yeah .User Interface: so we can just use the service available . Download it uhto the {disfmarker} to this remote control .Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: And then there's {disfmarker} there are only six buttons for six categories , or sev seven . The most there are only seven buttons . So Ijust choose the category one and you reuse the same button , for example to to choose among the the sorted list the programme you want , so {vocalsound} you don't have to choose among hundred channels , if youhave hundred channels , you just have six buttons , seven buttons .Project Manager: Yeah we should also optimise the the number of buttons .User Interface: Yeah , yeah .Industrial Designer: Well I I I I think that jjust by using navigation buttons and the user interface on the screen we are able to uh navigate uh through the {disfmarker} Well channel programme or contents or {disfmarker} in an easy way , so{disfmarker}Project Manager: This is {gap} good idea .User Interface: Yeah . Ah , yes . So {gap} . Yeah . Yeah , so you don't have to display here , just display on the T_V_ screen , right ?Industrial Designer: Yeah inthe dis display on the T_V_ screenUser Interface: Good idea {vocalsound} . Okay .Industrial Designer: and just uh with the with your remote control would just navigate through the fUser Interface: I think I think thatwill be revol revolutionary {vocalsound} .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Because all the T_V_ uh the the remote control have all numbers , lots of buttons and then youdunno what to choose in the end . Yeah . {vocalsound} Alright . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah . So {vocalsound} {disfmarker} I think for for the technical points we have to to to check how to gatherthe data from programme or contents and all this stuffUser Interface: Okay .Project Manager: So we have five minutes to {disfmarker}User Interface: Ah w w we have sometimes to use the white-board .ProjectManager: Ah you can y you can you can use it if you {disfmarker} so , can weIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Five minutes .Marketing: And another interesting idea for this would be tohave an light adaptation system depending upon the picture of {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay . Okay .Marketing: So , I mean , if you're watching a movie and suddenly there is a dark uh {vocalsound} some darkscene , the lights adapt themself .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: SUser Interface: Yeah .Marketing: The lighting in the room changes .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah , but we aredesigning just remote control .Project Manager: You {disfmarker} it {gap} .Marketing: I mean , we have a option in the remote control . If we want to have that option , you press that button in the remote .UserInterface: Okay .Industrial Designer: Oh right so {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay , do you want to have a conceptual remote control there , or you just want to put the function in ?Project Manager: Yeah . If if you youyou can if you want you can use th the {gap} .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Please , Norman , draw uh {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} Go on , draw something {gap} . {vocalsound} Mm .Marketing: Oh, I'm afraid you forgot to put your lapel .User Interface: Where is it ?Marketing: The lapel .Project Manager: Or before the before the the design that says {gap} .User Interface: Ah , okay .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}User Interface: Where where is it ? Here .Marketing: Yeah , that one .Project Manager: Norman .Marketing: Just plug it .User Interface: Mm .Marketing: Yeah , that's right .Project Manager: Be beforebefore writing you can uh sit and that says {gap} what we what we saidUser Interface: Mm .Project Manager: then after that you can you can use the {gap} . Yeah .User Interface: Okay , alright . So so the mostfunctional des mm the most important function is to ch choo buttons to choose the content . Right ? We agree on that , right ?Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Uh , uh first one is to uh{vocalsound} buttons i or it could be anything with {gap} buttons . Uh to choose uh content s or channels .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: So we have both . The user can choose w which one they want , right?Industrial Designer: Yeah , by content or by channel ,User Interface: By content or by channel .Industrial Designer: it's a good idea .User Interface: Choose by contents or by channels . And then what did we say justnow ? Other than this .Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: And uh we we have to find a way how to gather information about the contents .User Interface: Okay , so technically how {disfmarker} the problemsthat {disfmarker} how to do it is to {disfmarker} how to get the content .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .User Interface: Challenge .Industrial Designer: I think i it's not very difficult to to browse by channelbut it's a little bit tricky to browse by contents so {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay . Content . Okay , so these we have to work it out . So this one of the problem . And uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: I think that's the {gap} the things to doUser Interface: The main thing .Industrial Designer: and uh to uh reflect about itUser Interface: Okay . Alright . Alright , okay .Industrial Designer: and uh discuss it inthe next meeting .User Interface: So we are {disfmarker} we'll discuss it {disfmarker} we will get some information in the next meeting , so for now we get uh the funct this is the functional designer {gap} ? That's thefirst aspect . Right . We will {gap} get information and then we'll come back in . {gap} .Industrial Designer: Okay . Thank you everybody . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah , we'llcome .Project Manager: So maybe we'll meet in maybe five minutes ? And we'll discuss the other other aspects .User Interface: Alright . Alright , okay .Industrial Designer: Okay . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .Well thank you all {gap} . {vocalsound}User Interface: Thank you , mis {vocalsound}"}
{"doc_id":"doc_25","qid":"","text":"Postdoc A: OK .Grad G: How about channelProfessor C: Yeah , go ahead .Grad E: We 're recording .Grad G: Alright .Professor C: Alright , and no crash .Postdoc A: Hmm .Grad E: I pre - crashed it .Professor C: Yeah.PhD F: Pre - crashed !PhD D: It never crashes on me .Grad E: I think it 's actually {disfmarker}PhD D: What is {disfmarker} what is that ?Grad E: it depends on if the temp files are there or not , that {disfmarker} atleast that 's my current working hypothesis ,PhD D: Ah .Grad E: that I think what happens is it tries to clear the temp files and if they 're too big , it crashes .PhD D: Ah .PhD B: When the power went out the other dayand I restarted it , it crashed the first time .Grad E: Oh , that 's right .PhD B: After the power outPhD D: So then there would be no temp files .Professor C: Yeah .PhD D: OK . {comment} Hmm .Grad E: Uh , no , itdoesn't {disfmarker} it doesn't clear those necessarily ,PhD D: Oh wait {disfmarker} It {disfmarker} it doesn't clear them , OK .Grad E: so .Professor C: Hmm , no connection .Grad E: It 's {disfmarker} i they 're calledtemp files , but they 're not actually in the temp directory they 're in the scratch , so . They 're not backed up , but they 're not erased either on power failure .PhD D: But that 's usually the meeting that I recorded , andit neve it doesn't crash on me .PhD B: Well this wasn't {disfmarker} Actually , this wasn't a before your meeting , this was , um , Tuesday afternoon when , um , uh , Robert just wanted to do a little recording ,Grad E:Oh well .PhD D: Oh {disfmarker} Oh , right .PhD B: and the power had gone out earlier in the day .PhD D: OK . Huh , OK .Professor C: I don't know when would be a good excuse for it , but I just can't wait to be givinga talk t and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and use the example from last week with everybody t doing the digits at once .Grad E: Yeah .Postdoc A: That was fun .Professor C: I 'd love to play somebody that .PostdocA: That was fun .PhD D: It was quick .Professor C: It was . It was really efficient .PhD B: Talk about a good noise shield . You know ? You wanted to pe keep people from listening in , you could like have that playingoutside the room . Nobody could listen in .Professor C: Yeah .PhD D: Well , I had this idea we could make our whole meeting faster that way .Professor C: Yeah . Everybody give the reports about what they were doingat exactly the same time ,PhD D: And we 'll just all leave ,PhD B: And then we 'll {disfmarker} we 'll go back later and review the individual channels ,Professor C: yeah .PhD D: and {disfmarker}Grad E: Yep , and theneveryone can listen to it later .PhD B: right ?Grad E: Yes . Absolutely .PhD B: If you wanna know what {disfmarker}Professor C: Actually isn't that what we have been doing ?PhD D: Yeah .Grad E: It 's what it soundslike .PhD B: Practically , huh . With all the overlaps .Postdoc A: Yeah .Professor C: What are we doing ?Grad E: I {disfmarker} Since I 've been gone all week , I didn't send out a reminder for an agenda , so .ProfessorC: Yeah , and I 'm just {disfmarker}Grad E: Do we have anything to talk about or should we just read digits and go ?PhD B: I wouldn't mind hearing how the conference was .Professor C: What conference ?PhD D: Uh ,I had one question about {disfmarker}Grad E: Yeah , really . It 's all a blur .PhD D: Aren't the UW folks coming this weekend ?Grad E: Yep .PhD F: No . The next ,PhD D: Next weekend ?Grad E: Next weekend , weekfrom {disfmarker}PhD F: right ?Professor C: That is right . The next weekend .PhD D: Sorry , not {disfmarker} not {disfmarker} not the days coming up , but {disfmarker}PhD F: It 's like the {disfmarker}Grad E: Aweek from Saturday .PhD D: Yeah ,Professor C: That 's when they 're coming .PhD D: within ten days .Professor C: That 's correct .PhD D: So , are we {disfmarker} do we have like an agenda or anything that weshould be {disfmarker}Professor C: No , but that would be a good idea .PhD D: OK .Professor C: Why don't we wPhD F: So {disfmarker} so the deal is that I can , um , {vocalsound} uh , I can be available after , uh ,like ten thirty or something . I don't know how s how early you wanted to {disfmarker}Professor C: They 're not even gonna be here until eleven or so .Grad E: That 's good .PhD F: Oh , OK . So {disfmarker}ProfessorC: Cuz they 're flying up that day .PhD D: Wait , this is on {disfmarker} on Sunday ?Professor C: Saturday .PhD D: Or Saturday ?Professor C: Saturday .PhD F: Saturday .Professor C: S Saturday .PhD D: OK .Grad E:Well , yProfessor C: Yeah .PhD F: Mm - hmm .Grad E: Eurospeech is due on Friday and then I 'm going down to San {disfmarker} uh , San Jose Friday night , so , if {disfmarker} you know , if we start nice and lateSaturday that 's a good thing .Professor C: No , I mean , they 're flying up from {disfmarker} from {disfmarker}Grad E: Seattle .Professor C: down from Seattle .Grad E: They 're flying from somewhere to somewhere,Professor C: Yeah , and they 'll end up here . So b and also Brian Kingsbury is actually flying from , uh , the east coast on that {disfmarker} that morning .Postdoc A: Excellent .Professor C: So , i I {disfmarker} I willbe {disfmarker} I mean , he 's taking a very early flightPhD F: Oh .Professor C: and we do have the time work difference running the right way , but I still think that there 's no way we could start before eleven . Itmight end up really being twelve . So when we get closer we 'll find people 's plane schedules , and let everybody know . Uh , So . That 's good .Grad E: But , uh , yeah maybe an agenda , or at least some things to talkabout would be a good idea .Professor C: Well we can start gathering those {disfmarker} those ideas , but then we {disfmarker} we should firm it up by next {disfmarker} next Thursday 's meeting .Postdoc A: Will wehave time to , um , to prepare something that we {disfmarker} in the format we were planning for the IBM transcribers by then , or {disfmarker} ?Grad E: Oh yeah . Absolutely .Postdoc A: OK .Grad E: So have youheard back from Brian about that , Chuck ?PhD B: Yes , um , he 's {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I 'm sorry , I should have forwarded that along . Uh , {vocalsound} oh I {disfmarker} I think I mentioned at the lastmeeting , he said that , um , he talked to them and it was fine {disfmarker} with the beeps they would be {disfmarker} That 's easy for them to do .Grad E: Great . OK . So , uh , oh , though Thi - Thilo isn't here , um ,but , uh , I {disfmarker} I have the program to insert the beeps . What I don't have is something to parse the output of the channelized transcripts to find out where to put the beeps , but that should be really easy todo . So do we have a meeting that that 's been done with ,Postdoc A: He 's {disfmarker} he 's {disfmarker}Grad E: that we 've tightened it up to the point where we can actually give it to IBM and have them try it out?Postdoc A: He generated , um , a channel - wise presegmented version of a meeting , but it was Robustness rather than EDU so I guess depends on whether we 're willing to use Robustness ?PhD B: Well for thisexperiment I think we can use pre pretty much anything .Grad E: Mm - hmm .Postdoc A: OK .PhD B: This experiment of just {disfmarker}Grad E: Well we had {disfmarker} we had talked about doing maybe EDU as agood choice , though . Well , {vocalsound} whatever we have .PhD B: Well we 've talked about that as being the next ones we wanted to transcribe .Grad E: Right .Postdoc A: OK .PhD B: But for the purpose of sendinghim a sample one to {disfmarker} fGrad E: Yeah , maybe it doesn't matter .Postdoc A: Great .PhD B: I {disfmarker} I don't think it mattePostdoc A: I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll , um , get {disfmarker} makethat available .Grad E: OK , and has it been corrected ?Postdoc A: Oh , well , wait . Um {disfmarker}Grad E: Hand - checked ? Cuz that was one of the {vocalsound} processes we were talking about as well .PhD B:Right , so we need to run Thilo 's thing on it ,Postdoc A: That 's right .PhD B: and then we go in and adjust the boundaries .Postdoc A: Yeah that 's right . Yeah , we haven't done that . I {disfmarker} I could setsomeone on that tomorrow .PhD B: Right .Grad E: And time how long it takes .PhD B: OK .Postdoc A: I think they 're coming {disfmarker}PhD B: And we probably don't have to do necessarily a whole meeting for that ifwe just wanna send them a sample to try .Postdoc A: OK . What would be a good number of minutes ?PhD B: I don't know , maybe we can figure out how long it 'll take @ @ to {disfmarker} to do .Grad E: Um , I don'tknow , it seems to me w we probably should go ahead and do a whole meeting because we 'll have to transcribe the whole meeting anyway sometime .Professor C: Yes except that if they had {disfmarker} if there wasa choice between having fifteen minutes that was fully the way you wanted it , and having a whole meeting that didn't get at what you wanted for them {disfmarker} It 's just dependent of how much {disfmarker}GradE: Like I {disfmarker} I mean I guess if we have to do it again anyway , but , uhProfessor C: Yeah .PhD B: I guess , the only thing I 'm not sure about is , um , how quickly can the transcribers scan over and fix theboundaries ,Postdoc A: Mm - hmm .PhD B: and {disfmarker} I mean , is it pretty easy ?Grad E: I think it 's gonna be one or two times real time at {disfmarker} Wow , excuse me , two or more times real time , right ?Cuz they have to at least listen to it .Professor C: Can we pipeline it so that say there 's , uh , the transcriber gets done with a quarter of the meeting and then we {disfmarker} you run it through this other {disfmarker}other stuff ? Uh ,Grad E: Well the other stuff is I B I 'm just thinking that from a data {disfmarker} keeping - track - of - the - data point of view , it may be best to send them whole meetings at a time and not try tosend them bits and pieces .Professor C: OK , so . Oh , that 's right . So the first thing is the automatic thing , and then it 's {disfmarker} then it 's {disfmarker} then it 's the transcribers tightening stuff up ,Grad E:Right .Postdoc A: Mm - hmm .Professor C: and then it 's IBM .Postdoc A: Mm - hmm , mm - hmm .Grad E: Right .Professor C: OK , so you might as well ha run the automatic thing over the entire meeting , and then{disfmarker} and then , uh , you would give IBM whatever was fixed .Postdoc A: And have them fix it over the entire meeting too ?Grad E: Right .Professor C: Well , yeah , but start from the beginning and go to theend , right ? So if they were only half way through then that 's what you 'd give IBM .Postdoc A: OK .Professor C: Right ?PhD B: As of what point ? I mean . The {disfmarker} I guess the question on my mind is do wewait for the transcribers to adjust the marks for the whole meeting before we give anything to IBM , or do we go ahead and send them a sample ? Let their {disfmarker}Professor C: Why wouldn't we s @ @ w i if theywere going sequentially through it , why wouldn't we give them {disfmarker} I mean i are we trying to get something done by the time Brian comes ?PhD B: Well I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I mean , I don't know.Grad E: That was the question . Though .Professor C: So if we {disfmarker} if we were , then it seems like giving them something , whatever they had gotten up to , would be better than nothing .PhD B: Yeah . Uh .That {disfmarker} I agree . I agree .Grad E: Well , I don't think {disfmarker} I mean , h they {disfmarker} they typically work for what , four hours , something like that ?Postdoc A: Hmm , I gue hmm .Grad E: I thinkthe they should be able to get through a whole meeting in one sitting . I would think , unless it 's a lot harder than we think it is , which it could be , certainly .Postdoc A: If it 's got like for speakers then I guess{disfmarker} I mean if {disfmarker}PhD B: We 're just doing the individual channels ,Grad E: Or seven or eight .PhD B: right ?Postdoc A: Individual channels . Yeah .PhD B: So it 's gonna be , depending on the numberof people in the meeting , um ,Postdoc A: I guess there is this issue of , you know , if {disfmarker} if the segmenter thought there was no speech on {disfmarker} on a particular stretch , on a particular channel ,GradE: Well {disfmarker}Postdoc A: and there really was , then , if it didn't show up in a mixed signal to verify , then it might be overlooked , so , I mean , the question is \" should {disfmarker} should a transcriber listen tothe entire thing or can it g can it be based on the mixed signal ? \" And I th eh so far as I 'm concerned it 's fine to base it on the mixed signal at this point , and {disfmarker}Grad E: That 's what it seems to me too , inthat if they need to , just like in the other cases , they can listen to the individual , if they need to .Postdoc A: And that cuts down the time . Yeah .Grad E: But they don't have to for most of it .Postdoc A: Yeah , that 'sgood . So . Yeah . Good , good , good .PhD B: I don't see how that will work , though .Postdoc A: What {disfmarker} what aspect ?Professor C: So you 're talking about tightening up time boundaries ?PhD B: Yeah.Professor C: So how do you {disfmarker}Grad E: So , they have the normal channeltrans interface where they have each individual speaker has their own line ,PhD B: Yeah .Grad E: but you 're listening to the mixedsignal and you 're tightening the boundaries , correcting the boundaries . You shouldn't have to tighten them too much because Thilo 's program does that .Postdoc A: Should be pretty good , yeah .PhD D: Except for{vocalsound} it doesn't do well on short things , remember .Grad E: Right , so {disfmarker} so you 'll have to I {disfmarker}PhD D: It will miss them . It will miss most of the really short things .Grad E: Uh - huh .PhDD: Like that .Postdoc A: But those would be {disfmarker} those would be {disfmarker}PhD D: Uh - huh . It will {disfmarker} it will miss {disfmarker}Grad E: Uh - huh !PhD D: Yeah , you have to say \" uh - huh \" moreslowly to {disfmarker} to get cGrad E: Sorry .PhD D: No , I 'm s I 'm actually serious .Grad E: I 'll work on that .PhD D: So it will miss stuff like that which {disfmarker}PhD B: I {disfmarker}Grad E: Well , so{disfmarker} so that 's something that the transcribers will have to {disfmarker} have to do .Postdoc A: Yeah , but presumably , most of those they should be able to hear from the mixed signal unless they 'reembedded in the heavil heavy overlap section when {disfmarker} in which case they 'd be listening to the channels anyway .PhD B: That 's {disfmarker} that 's what I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm concerned about the part.PhD D: Right , and that 's what I 'm not sure about .Postdoc A: Yeah , I am too . And I think it 's an empirical question .PhD B: Can't we {disfmarker} uh couldn't we just have , um , I don't know , maybe this justdoesn't fit with the software , but I guess if I didn't know anything about Transcriber and I was gonna make something to let them adjust boundaries , I would just show them one channel at a time , with the marks ,and let them adjuPostdoc A: Oh they can {disfmarker}Grad E: Well , but then they have to do {disfmarker} but then they {disfmarker} for this meeting they would have to do seven times real time , and it wouldprobably be more than that .Postdoc A: Yeah , that 's it . Yeah .Grad E: Right ? Because they 'd have to at least listen to each channel all the way through .Postdoc A: And if {disfmarker}PhD B: But i but it 's very quick,Postdoc A: Uh - huh .PhD B: right ? I mean , you scan {disfmarker} I mean , if you have a display of the waveform .Postdoc A: Yeah .Grad E: Oh , you 're talking about visually .Postdoc A: w Well , the other problem isthe breathsGrad E: I just don't think {disfmarker}Postdoc A: cuz you also see the breaths on the waveform . I 've {disfmarker} I 've looked at the int uh , s I 've tried to do that with a single channel , and {disfmarker}and you do see all sorts of other stuff besides just the voice .PhD B: Uh - huh .Grad E: Yeah , and I {disfmarker} I think that they 're going much more on acoustics than they are on visuals .Postdoc A: Well that{disfmarker} that I 'm not sure .Grad E: So .Postdoc A: What you {disfmarker} the digital {disfmarker} what the digital task that you had your interface ? Um , I know for a fact that one of those {disfmarker} sh shecould really well {disfmarker} she could judge what th what the number was based on the {disfmarker} on the waveform .Grad E: Yeah , that 's actually true . Yeah , you 're right . You 're absolutely right . Yeah , Ifound the same thing that when I was scanning through the wave form {vocalsound} I could see when someone started to read digits just by the shapes .Postdoc A: Yeah , she could tell which one was seven .Grad E:Um , maybe .Postdoc A: Yeah .Professor C: So I don't {disfmarker} I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm now entirely confused about what they do .Grad E: But {disfmarker}Professor C: So , they 're {disfmarker} they 're looking ata mixed signal , or they 're looking {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what are they looking at visually ?Postdoc A: Well , they have a choice . They could choose any signal to look at . I 've tried lookin but usually theylook at the mixed . But I 've {disfmarker} I 've tried looking at the single signal and {disfmarker} and in order to judge when it {disfmarker} when it was speech and when it wasn't ,Grad E: Oh .Postdoc A: but theproblem is then you have breaths which {disfmarker} which show up on the signal .Professor C: But the procedure that you 're imagining , I mean , people vary from this , is that they have the mixed signal wave formin front of them ,Postdoc A: Yes .PhD F: Postdoc A: Yes .Professor C: and they have multiple , uh , well , let 's see , there isn't {disfmarker} we don't have transcription yet . So {disfmarker} but there 's markers ofsome sort that have been happening automatically ,Postdoc A: Yes .Grad E: Right .Professor C: and those show up on the mixed signal ?Postdoc A: Oh ,Professor C: There 's a @ @ clicks ?Grad E: N the tPostdoc A: theyshow up on the separate ribbons . So you have a separate ribbon for each channel ,Professor C: There 're separate ribbons .Grad E: Right .Postdoc A: and {disfmarker} and i i it 'll be {disfmarker} because it 's beingsegmented as channel at a time with his {disfmarker} with Thilo 's new procedure , then you don't have the correspondence of the times across the bins {disfmarker} uh across the ribbons uh you could have{disfmarker}Professor C: And is there a line moving across the waveform as it goes ?Grad E: Yes .Postdoc A: Yes .Professor C: OK , so The way you 're imaging is they kind of play it , and they see oh this happened ,then this happened , then {disfmarker} and if it 's about right , they just sort of let it slide ,Postdoc A: Yeah .Grad E: Right . Right .Professor C: and if it {disfmarker} if it {disfmarker} there 's a question on something ,they stop and maybe look at the individual wave form .Postdoc A: Oh , well not {disfmarker} not \" look \" .Grad E: Right . Well , they wouldn't look at it {pause} at this point . They would just listen .Professor C: They{disfmarker} they might look at it , right ?Grad E: Well , the problem is that the {disfmarker} the interface doesn't really allow you to switch visuals .Postdoc A: Not very quickly .Grad E: The problem is that{disfmarker} that {disfmarker} the Tcl - TK interface with the visuals , it 's very slow to load waveforms .Postdoc A: You can but it takes time . That 's it .Professor C: Uh - huh .Grad E: And so when I tried {disfmarker}that {disfmarker} that was the first thing I tried when I first started it ,Postdoc A: Oh , oh . Visually . You can {disfmarker} you can switch quickly between the audio ,Grad E: right ?Postdoc A: but you just can't get thevisual display to show quickly . So you have to {disfmarker} It takes , I don't know , three , four minutes to {disfmarker} Well , I mean , it takes {disfmarker} it takes long enough {disfmarker}PhD D: Yeah , it 's veryslow to do that .Postdoc A: It takes long enough cuz it has to reload the I {disfmarker} I don't know exactly what it 's doing frankly cuz {disfmarker} but it t it takes long enough that it 's just not a practical alternative.PhD D: That wGrad E: Well it {disfmarker} it does some sort of shape pre - computation so that it can then scroll it quickly ,Grad G: But you can cancel that .PhD D: Yeah .Grad E: yeah . But then you can't change theresolution or scroll quickly .Grad G: Oh , really ?Postdoc A: Now you could set up multiple windows , each one with a different signal showing , and then look between the windows .Grad E: So .Grad G: Huh !Postdoc A:Maybe that 's the solution .Grad E: I mean , we {disfmarker} we could do different interfaces ,Grad G: What if you preload them all ?Grad E: right ? I mean , so {disfmarker} so we could use like X Waves instead ofTranscriber ,Postdoc A: Yeah .Grad E: and it loads faster , certainly .Grad G: What if you were to preload all the channels or {disfmarker} or initially {disfmarker}Grad E: Well that 's what I tried originally .Grad G: likedoesn't {disfmarker}Grad E: So I {disfmarker} I actually before , uh , Dave Gelbart did this , I did an interface which showed each waveform and ea a ribbon for each waveform ,Grad G: Mm - hmm .Grad E: but the"}
{"doc_id":"doc_26","qid":"","text":"Professor C: OK . So uh , he 's not here ,PhD D: So .Professor C: so you get to {disfmarker}PhD D: Yeah , I will try to explain the thing that I did this {disfmarker} this week {disfmarker} during this week .Professor C:Yeah .PhD D: Well eh you know that I work {disfmarker} I begin to work with a new feature to detect voice - unvoice .PhD E: Mm - hmm .PhD D: What I trying two MLP to {disfmarker} to the {disfmarker} with thisnew feature and the fifteen feature uh from the eh bus base systemPhD E: The {disfmarker} the mel cepstrum ?PhD D: No , satly the mes the Mel Cepstrum , the new base system {disfmarker} the new base system.PhD E: Oh the {disfmarker}PhD D: Yeah , we {disfmarker}PhD E: OK , the Aurora system .PhD D: yeah the Aurora system with the new filter , VAD or something like that .PhD E: OK .PhD D: And I 'm trying two MLP ,one one that only have t three output , voice , unvoice , and silence ,Professor C: Mm - hmm .PhD D: and other one that have fifty - six output . The probabilities of the allophone . And I tried to do some experiment ofrecognition with that and only have result with {disfmarker} with the MLP with the three output . And I put together the fifteen features and the three MLP output . And , well , the result are li a little bit better , but moreor less similar .Professor C: Uh , I {disfmarker} I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm slightly confused .PhD E: Hmm .Professor C: What {disfmarker} what feeds the uh {disfmarker} the three - output net ?PhD D: Voice , unvoice ,and siProfessor C: No no , what feeds it ? What features does it see ?PhD D: The feature {disfmarker} the input ? The inputs are the fifteen {disfmarker} the fifteen uh bases feature .Professor C: Uh - huh .PhD D: the{disfmarker} with the new code . And the other three features are R , the variance of the difference between the two spectrum ,Professor C: Uh - huh .PhD D: the variance of the auto - correlation function , except the{disfmarker} the first point , because half the height value is R - zeroProfessor C: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .PhD D: and also R - zero , the first coefficient of the auto - correlation function . Thatis like the energy with these three feature ,Professor C: Right .PhD D: also these three feature .Professor C: You wouldn't do like R - one over R - zero or something like that ? I mean usually for voiced - unvoiced you 'ddo {disfmarker} yeah , you 'd do something {disfmarker} you 'd do energyPhD D: Yeah .Professor C: but then you have something like spectral slope , which is you get like R - one ov over R - zero or something likethat .PhD D: Uh yeah .PhD E: What are the R 's ?Professor C: R correlations .PhD E: I 'm sorry I missed it .PhD D: No , R c No .PhD E: Oh .PhD D: Auto - correlation ? Yes , yes , the variance of the auto - correlationfunction that uses thatProfessor C: Ye - Well that 's the variance , but if you just say \" what is {disfmarker} \" I mean , to first order , um yeah one of the differences between voiced , unvoiced and silence is energy .Another one is {disfmarker} but the other one is the spectral shape .PhD D: Yeah , I I 'll {disfmarker} The spectral shape ,Professor C: Yeah , and so R - one over R - zero is what you typically use for that .PhD D: yeah. No , I don't use that {disfmarker} I can't use {disfmarker}Professor C: No , I 'm saying that 's what people us typically use .PhD D: Mmm .Professor C: See , because it {disfmarker} because this is {disfmarker} thisis just like a single number to tell you um \" does the spectrum look like that or does it look like that \" .PhD D: Mm - hmm .Grad A: Oh . R {disfmarker} R {disfmarker} R - zero .Professor C: Right ?PhD D: Mm - hmm.Professor C: So if it 's {disfmarker} if it 's um {disfmarker} if it 's low energy uh but the {disfmarker} but the spectrum looks like that or like that , it 's probably silence .PhD D: Mm - hmm .Professor C: Uh but if it 'slow energy and the spectrum looks like that , it 's probably unvoiced .PhD D: Yeah .Professor C: So if you just {disfmarker} if you just had to pick two features to determine voiced - unvoiced , you 'd pick somethingabout the spectrum like uh R - one over R - zero , um and R - zeroPhD D: Mm - hmm , OK .Professor C: or i i you know you 'd have some other energy measure and like in the old days people did like uh zero crossingcounts .PhD D: Yeah , yeah .Professor C: Right . S SPhD D: Well , I can also th use this .Professor C: Yeah . Um ,PhD D: Bec - because the result are a little bit better but we have in a point that everything is more orless the similar {disfmarker} more or less similar .Professor C: Yeah . But umPhD D: It 's not quite better .Professor C: Right , but it seemed to me that what you were what you were getting at before was that there issomething about the difference between the original signal or the original FFT and with the filter which is what {disfmarker} and the variance was one take uh on it .PhD D: Yeah , I used this too .Professor C: Right . Butit {disfmarker} it could be something else . Suppose you didn't have anything like that . Then in that case , if you have two nets , Alright , and this one has three outputs , and this one has fPhD D: Mm - hmm .ProfessorC: whatever , fifty - six , or something ,PhD D: Mm - hmm .Professor C: if you were to sum up the probabilities for the voiced and for the unvoiced and for the silence here , we 've found in the past you 'll do better atvoiced - unvoiced - silence than you do with this one . So just having the three output thing doesn't {disfmarker} doesn't really buy you anything . The issue is what you feed it .PhD D: Yeah . Yeah , I have{disfmarker} yeah .Professor C: So uhPhD D: No {disfmarker}PhD E: So you 're saying take the features that go into the voiced - unvoiced - silence net and feed those into the other one , as additional inputs , ratherthan having a separate {disfmarker}Professor C: w W well that 's another way .PhD D: Yeah .Professor C: That wasn't what I was saying but yeah that 's certainly another thing to do . No I was just trying to say if you bif you bring this into the picture over this , what more does it buy you ?PhD E: Mmm .Professor C: And what I was saying is that the only thing I think that it buys you is um based on whether you feed it somethingdifferent . And something different in some fundamental way . And so the kind of thing that {disfmarker} that she was talking about before , was looking at something uh ab um {disfmarker} something uh about thedifference between the {disfmarker} the uh um log FFT uh log power uh and the log magnitude uh F F - spectrum uh and the um uh filter bank .PhD D: Yeah .Professor C: And so the filter bank is chosen in fact to sortof integrate out the effects of pitch and she 's saying you know trying {disfmarker} So the particular measure that she chose was the variance of this m of this difference , but that might not be the right number .PhD D:Mm - hmm . Maybe .Professor C: Right ? I mean maybe there 's something about the variance that 's {disfmarker} that 's not enough or maybe there 's something else that {disfmarker} that one could use , but I thinkthat , for me , the thing that {disfmarker} that struck me was that uh you wanna get something back here , so here 's {disfmarker} here 's an idea . uh What about it you skip all the {disfmarker} all the really cleverthings , and just fed the log magnitude spectrum into this ?PhD D: Ah {disfmarker} I 'm sorry .Professor C: This is f You have the log magnitude spectrum , and you were looking at that and the difference between thefilter bank and {disfmarker} and c c computing the variance .PhD D: Yeah . Mm - hmm .Professor C: That 's a clever thing to do .PhD D: Mm - hmm .Professor C: What if you stopped being clever ? And you just tookthis thing in here because it 's a neural net and neural nets are wonderfulPhD D: Mm - hmm .Professor C: and figure out what they can {disfmarker} what they most need from things , and I mean that 's what they 'regood at .PhD D: Yeah .Professor C: So I mean you 're {disfmarker} you 're {disfmarker} you 're trying to be clever and say what 's the statistic that should {disfmarker} we should get about this difference but uh infact , you know maybe just feeding this in or {disfmarker} or feeding both of them inPhD E: Hmm .Professor C: you know , another way , saying let it figure out what 's the {disfmarker} what is the interaction ,especially if you do this over multiple frames ?PhD D: Mm - hmm .Professor C: Then you have this over time , and {disfmarker} and both kinds of measures and uh you might get uh something better .PhD D: Mm -hmm .Professor C: Um .PhD E: So {disfmarker} so don't uh {disfmarker} don't do the division , but let the net have everything .Professor C: That 's another thing you could do yeah . Yeah .PhD D: Yeah .Professor C:Um . I mean , it seems to me , if you have exactly the right thing then it 's better to do it without the net because otherwise you 're asking the net to learn this {disfmarker} you know , say if you wanted to learn how todo multiplication .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor C: I mean you could feed it a bunch of s you could feed two numbers that you wanted to multiply into a net and have a bunch of nonlinearities in the middle and train it toget the product of the output and it would work . But , it 's kind of crazy , cuz we know how to multiply and you {disfmarker} you 'd be you know much lower error usually {vocalsound} if you just multiplied it out . Butsuppose you don't really know what the right thing is . And that 's what these sort of dumb machine learning methods are good at . So . Um . Anyway . It 's just a thought .PhD E: How long does it take , Carmen , totrain up one of these nets ?PhD D: Oh , not too much .PhD E: Yeah .PhD D: Mmm , one day or less .PhD E: Hmm .Professor C: Yeah , it 's probably worth it .Grad A: What are {disfmarker} what are your f uh frameerror rates for {disfmarker} for this ?PhD D: Eh fifty - f six uh no , the frame error rate ?Grad A: OPhD D: Fifty - six I think .Professor C: Is that {disfmarker} maybe that 's accuracy ?PhD D: Percent .Grad A: Fif - fifty -six percent accurate for v voice - unvoicePhD D: The accuracy . Mm - hmm . No for , yes f I don't remember for voice - unvoice ,Grad A: Oh , OK .PhD D: maybe for the other one .Grad A: OK .Professor C: Yeah , voiced- unvoiced hopefully would be a lot better .PhD D: for voiced . I don't remeGrad A: Should be in nineties somewhere .PhD D: Better . Maybe for voice - unvoice .Grad A: Right .PhD D: This is for the other one . I should{disfmarker} I can't show that .Grad A: OK .PhD D: But I think that fifty - five was for the {disfmarker} when the output are the fifty - six phone .Grad A: Mm - hmm .PhD D: That I look in the {disfmarker} with theother {disfmarker} nnn the other MLP that we have are more or less the same number . Silence will be better but more or less the same .Professor C: I think at the frame level for fifty - six that was the kind of numberwe were getting for {disfmarker} for uh um reduced band width uh stuff .PhD D: I think that {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think that for the other one , for the three output , is sixty sixty - two , sixtythree more or less .Grad A: Mm - hmm .Professor C: That 's all ?PhD D: It 's {disfmarker} Yeah .Professor C: That 's pretty bad .PhD D: Yeah , because it 's noise also .Grad A: Oh yeah .Professor C: Aha !PhD D: Andwe haveProfessor C: Aha ! Yeah . Yeah . OK .PhD D: I know .Professor C: But even i in {disfmarker} Oh yeah , in training . Still , Uh . Well actually , so this is a test that you should do then . Um , if you 're getting fifty -six percent over here , uh that 's in noise also , right ?PhD D: Yeah , yeah , yeah .Professor C: Oh OK . If you 're getting fifty - six here , try adding together the probabilities of all of the voiced phones here and all of theunvoiced phonesPhD D: will be {disfmarker}Professor C: and see what you get then .PhD D: Yeah .Professor C: I bet you get better than sixty - three .PhD D: Well I don't know , but {disfmarker} I th I {disfmarker} Ithink that we {disfmarker} I have the result more or less . Maybe . I don't know . I don't {disfmarker} I 'm not sure but I remember @ @ that I can't show that .Professor C: OK , but that 's a {disfmarker} That is a{disfmarker} a good check point , you should do that anyway ,PhD D: Yeah .Professor C: OK ? Given this {disfmarker} this uh regular old net that 's just for choosing for other purposes , uh add up the probabilities ofthe different subclasses and see {disfmarker} see how well you do . Uh and that {disfmarker} you know anything that you do over here should be at least as good as that .PhD D: Mm - hmm .Professor C: OK .PhD D: Iwill do that . But {disfmarker}PhD E: The targets for the neural net , uh , they come from forced alignments ?PhD D: Uh , {comment} no .Grad A: TIMIT canonical ma mappings .PhD D: TIMIT .Professor C: Oh . So ,this is trained on TIMIT .PhD E: Ah ! OK .Grad A: Yeah , noisy TIMIT .PhD D: Yeah .Professor C: OK .PhD D: Yeah this for TIMIT .Professor C: But noisy TIMIT ?Grad A: Right .PhD D: Noisy TIMIT . We have noisy TIMITwith the noise of the {disfmarker} the TI - digits . And now we have another noisy TIMIT also with the noise of uh Italian database .Professor C: I see . Yeah . Well there 's gonna be {disfmarker} it looks like there 'sgonna be a noisy uh {disfmarker} some large vocabulary noisy stuff too . Somebody 's preparing .PhD E: Really ?Professor C: Yeah . I forget what it 'll be , resource management , Wall Street Journal , something .Some {disfmarker} some read task actually , that they 're {disfmarker} preparing .Grad A: Hmm !PhD E: For what {disfmarker} For Aurora ?Professor C: Yeah .PhD E: Oh !Professor C: Yeah , so the uh {disfmarker}Uh , the issue is whether people make a decision now based on what they 've already seen , or they make it later . And one of the arguments for making it later is let 's make sure that whatever techniques that we 'reusing work for something more than {disfmarker} than connected digits .PhD E: Hmm .Professor C: So .PhD E: When are they planning {disfmarker} When would they do that ?Professor C: Mmm , I think late{disfmarker} uh I think in the summer sometime .PhD E: Hmm .Professor C: So . OK , thanks .PhD D: This is the work that I did during this dateProfessor C: Uh - huh .PhD D: and also mmm I {disfmarker} H Hyneklast week say that if I have time I can to begin to {disfmarker} to study well seriously the France Telecom proposalProfessor C: Mm - hmm .PhD D: to look at the code and something like that to know exactly what theyare doing because maybe that we can have some ideasProfessor C: Mm - hmm .PhD D: but not only to read the proposal . Look insi look i carefully what they are doing with the program @ @ and I begin to{disfmarker} to work also in that . But the first thing that I don't understand is that they are using R - the uh log energy that this quite {disfmarker} I don't know why they have some constant in the expression of thelower energy . I don't know what that means .PhD E: They have a constant in there , you said ?PhD D: Yeah .Professor C: Oh , at the front it says uh \" log energy is equal to the rounded version of sixteen over the logof two \"PhD D: This {disfmarker} Yeah .Professor C: Uh . uh times the {disfmarker}PhD D: Then maybe I can understand .Professor C: Well , this is natural log , and maybe it has something to do with the fact that thisis {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I have no idea .PhD E: Is that some kind of base conversion , or {disfmarker} ?Professor C: Yeah , that 's what I was thinking , but {disfmarker} but um , then there 's the sixty - four ,Uh , {vocalsound} I don't know .PhD D: Because maybe they 're {disfmarker} the threshold that they are using on the basis of this value {disfmarker}PhD E: Experimental results .Grad A: Mc - McDonald 's constant.PhD D: I don't know exactly , because well th I thought maybe they have a meaning . But I don't know what is the meaning of take exactly this value .Professor C: Yeah , it 's pretty funny looking .PhD E: So they 'retaking the number inside the log and raising it to sixteen over log base two .Professor C: I don't know . Yeah , I {disfmarker} um Right . Sixteen over {comment} two .PhD E: Does it have to do with those sixty - fours ,or {disfmarker} ?Professor C: Um . If we ignore the sixteen , the natural log of t one over the natural log of two times the natu I don't know . Well , maybe somebody 'll think of something ,PhD E: Professor C: but thisis uh {disfmarker} It may just be that they {disfmarker} they want to have {disfmarker} for very small energies , they want to have some kind of a {disfmarker}PhD D: Yeah , the e The effect I don't {disfmarker} @@ I can understand the effect of this , no ? because it 's to {disfmarker} to do something like that .Professor C: Well , it says , since you 're taking a natural log , it says that when {disfmarker} when you get down toessentially zero energy , this is gonna be the natural log of one , which is zero .PhD D: No ? Mm - hmm .Professor C: So it 'll go down to uh to {nonvocalsound} the natural log being {disfmarker} So the lowest value forthis would be zero . So y you 're restricted to being positive . And this sort of smooths it for very small energies . Uh , why they chose sixty - four and something else , that was probably just experimental . And the{disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the constant in front of it , I have no idea .PhD D: Yeah .Professor C: umPhD D: Well . I {disfmarker} I will look to try if I move this parameter in their code what happens , maybeeverything is {disfmarker} Maybe they tres hole are on basis of this .Professor C: uh {disfmarker} I mean {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} {vocalsound} they {disfmarker} they probably have some fi particular s fixedpoint arithmetic that they 're using ,PhD D: I don't know .Professor C: and then it just {disfmarker}PhD E: Yeah , I was just gonna say maybe it has something to do with hardware ,Professor C: Yeah .PhD E: somethingthey were doing .Professor C: Yeah , I mean that {disfmarker} they 're s probably working with fixed point or integer or something . I think you 're supposed to on this stuff anyway , and {disfmarker} and so maybethat puts it in the right realm somewhere .PhD E: Well it just , yeah , puts it in the right range , or {disfmarker}Professor C: Yeah . I think , given at the level you 're doing things in floating point on the computer , Idon't think it matters , would be my guess ,PhD D: Mm - hmm .Professor C: but .PhD D: I {disfmarker} this more or less anythingProfessor C: Yeah . OK , and wh when did Stephane take off ? He took off{disfmarker}PhD D: I think that Stephane will arrive today or tomorrow .Professor C: Oh , he was gone these first few days , and then he 's here for a couple days before he goes to Salt Lake City .PhD D: Mm - hmm.Professor C: OK .PhD D: He 's {disfmarker} I think that he is in Las Vegas or something like that .Professor C: Yeah . Yeah . So he 's {disfmarker} he 's going to ICASSP which is good . I {disfmarker} I don't know ifthere are many people who are going to ICASSPPhD D: Yeah .Professor C: so {disfmarker} so I thought , make sure somebody go .PhD D: Yeah .PhD E: Do {disfmarker} have {disfmarker} Have people sort of stoppedgoing to ICASSP in recent years ?Professor C: Um , people are less consistent about going to ICASSP and I think it 's still {disfmarker} it 's still a reasonable forum for students to {disfmarker} to present things . Uh , it's {disfmarker} I think for engineering students of any kind , I think it 's {disfmarker} it 's if you haven't been there much , it 's good to go to , uh to get a feel for things , a range of things , not just speech . Uh . But Ithink for {disfmarker} for sort of dyed - in - the - wool speech people , um I think that ICSLP and Eurospeech are much more targeted .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor C: Uh . And then there 's these other meetings , likeHLT and {disfmarker} and uh ASRU {disfmarker}PhD E: Professor C: so there 's {disfmarker} there 's actually plenty of meetings that are really relevant to {disfmarker} to uh computational uh speech processing ofone sort or another .PhD E: Mm - hmm . Professor C: Um . So . I mean , I mostly just ignored it because I was too busy and {vocalsound} didn't get to it . So uh Wanna talk a little bit about what we were talking aboutthis morning ?Grad A: Oh ! um {pause} uh {pause} Yeah .Professor C: Just briefly , or {pause} Or anything else ?Grad A: So . I {disfmarker} I guess some of the progress , I {disfmarker} I 've been getting a{disfmarker} getting my committee members for the quals . And um so far I have Morgan and Hynek , {vocalsound} Mike Jordan , and I asked John Ohala and he agreed . Yeah . Yeah .PhD E: Cool .Grad A: So I 'm{disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I just need to ask um Malek . One more . Um . Tsk . Then uh I talked a little bit about {vocalsound} um continuing with these dynamic ev um acoustic events , and um {vocalsound}{vocalsound} we 're {disfmarker} we 're {disfmarker} we 're {vocalsound} thinking about a way to test the completeness of a {disfmarker} a set of um dynamic uh events . Uh , completeness in the {disfmarker} in"}
{"doc_id":"doc_27","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Okay . Hi Team . Hope you had a good lunch .Marketing: {gap}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay we're back for the conceptual design meeting . Um let's get started . 'Kay , here is the agenda fortoday's meeting . Um we're gonna open it and I'm gonna keep the minutes as Project Manager . We're gonna have three presentations , one from each of you again . And then we are going to come to decision on theremote control concepts and then we're gonna close it up . And we have forty minutes again . 'Kay , and just to reiterate um after this meeting the team will reach a decision on the concepts of the remote control . Okay. Let's go ahead and start off with your presentations . Who would like to go first ?Industrial Designer: Just trying to move mine right now .Project Manager: Okay . Um Courtney would you mind starting us off?Marketing: Yeah {gap} .Project Manager: Okay . Trend watching ? 'Kay .Marketing: Yeah . Okay , so trend watching . Uh since we do put the fashion in electronics , it is kind of important how our product looks . So Iguess we can go ahead and go to the next . So what they want . Right now customers want fancy versus functional . Um basically about fifty eight percent of what they {disfmarker} like of the product that they want ,describing like the {disfmarker} in order of how much they want , fifty eight per cent of the decision of what it should look like , fancy versus functional , and then it has to also be technologically innovative , and yeteasy to use . So the customer basically is confused . They don't know exactly what they want . They want us to tell them . {gap}Industrial Designer: They want everything , but simply .Marketing: Yes . Exactly.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay .Marketing: So we can go to next .Project Manager: Mm 'kay .Marketing: Okay . So in Milan and Paris recently the trends have been showing that clothing , shoes and furnitureare basically just covered with fruits and vegetable patterns .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: So I don't know if we want to go with that um and also the spongy feel is in incontrast to last year . I don't know really , I mean I guess the spongy could relate to the buttons if we want toProject Manager: Mm . Mm .Marketing: rather than like a hard clicky button that you find on like somemobiles and stuff , you'd want like a softer touch . I mean do you guys know what I mean .Project Manager: Right . Yes .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah thMarketing: Yeah . Um . But as for the fruits andvegetable patterns , I don't know if we really want to go with that , because it is just a trend ,Project Manager: Right .Marketing: and our product we want to stay around for much longer than just a few months ,ProjectManager: Right . People don't buy a new remote every so often .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I I can {disfmarker}Marketing: because {disfmarker} Yeah . I mean that could just be a Spring thing right now.Industrial Designer: I can address some of that issue , I think , with uh my presentation .Marketing: Okay . Awesome .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Um so design preferences , um we need easy to read like largebuttons , clearly labelled so that , I mean 'cause we talked about that being a problem . Um and then also buttons illuminating upon touch , you said that in your design , with the bulb . Um and that could also tie in withthe colour scheme . Uh we need the Real Reaction logo and colour scheme obviously . That's one of our key goals , we wanna promote our product .User Interface: {gap}Marketing: And I was thinking about differenttypes of designs and I came up with something . Actually right here . So what we could do is something like an old-fashioned telephone like this , where we put the buttons around , like we'd put a big on-off button orsomething else in the middle , I mean it could be the arrows or whatever for channel up and down , and then put the numbers around in like an old-fashioned dial shape . 'Cause then it'll appeal to older generation andlike said retro's cool . So it's classically retro .Project Manager: Hmm .Marketing: So I mean that's just an idea if you guys like it .Project Manager: Very good . I like it . {vocalsound} Okay , ready for the next slide?Marketing: {vocalsound} And , yep . And that's it . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Op mm 'kay .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay .Project Manager: Great . Great presentation . Ready ?User Interface: Okayhang on .Project Manager: 'Kay .User Interface: See if it's there . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Which one is it ?User Interface: {vocalsound} I don't know . Hang on .Project Manager: {gap}User Interface: Interfaceconcepts , no ?Project Manager: Interface concepts new .User Interface: Either refresh it , or it sh {disfmarker}Project Manager: YUser Interface: Oh wait , maybe I didn't put it there . Hang on .Project Manager: 'Kay.Industrial Designer: Mine will always read copy of something or other .Project Manager: Sorry ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I I copied mine before I sent it over .Project Manager: Oh okay .User Interface: Sorry ,hang on . Don't know {gap} .Project Manager: Oh there we go .User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: {gap}User Interface: Okay , um {vocalsound} looking at the interface concept , it's gonna be mostly examples ofpossibilities of where we can go with this . Uh if you wanna start the next slide .Project Manager: Sure .User Interface: Um uh can't really see , but there's two possible ways , on the r left , if you see on th on the sidesof of the remote , you have the sort of scroll down , so you have that option right there . And then also there's the idea of the base . That's sort of like an idea there . And then on the right , we have what's really bigtrend right now , it's the iPod . It's becoming really {gap} and so you have this sort of very very simplistic menu section uh with the round buttons , and it's sort of like you have the both {gap} kind of trendy and hip ,but also very sleek and um and very simple , but technologically advanced . So if you wanted to do that th if we could find a way of sort of like {vocalsound} using that idea in a remote control then sort of look into it ,but {disfmarker} Anyway , next .Project Manager: Mm 'kay .User Interface: Um there's the idea of like being able to do it by feel as well as by um by sight . You'd you know you're in the dark , you don't wanna belooking at the remote control . And the picture particularly is pointing out if you look at the top volume button it's a V_ , and so yo you're kind of feeling a V_ like volume up . What it really is is a V_ and what it you thinkit is is down , because the down arrow .Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: And so it's like a sort of a criticism you'd probably turn that o the other way up . Um but then you have {disfmarker} you could either do itby raised type , which could be you know , iffy , um sort of old-fashioned in a way .Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: Either that or just have it by shape , for example you have a specific triangular shape that youknow you're looking at the up and down arrow . And then the round ones you sort of feel by , you know , that's the second one down , that sort of thing . So it's sort of looking into how we wanted t to do it by feel.Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Okay . Um this is sort of an example of going for a s certain demographic . Um this is particularly geared towards children .Marketing: That's cute .Project Manager: {gap}UserInterface: Um it's very cute , and we could probably change it to yellow , bright yellow for like a the for the company logo . Um and you have the shapes and it's very simplistic and friendly looking . Um and then theother thing that it would be able to do is just to pro be ab you program certain {disfmarker} {vocalsound} channels that only these children would watch , so it's like they ch watch , you know , the C_ Beebies orsomething like that ,Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: uh keep them away from other channels . So that's like another ar Um ,Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: I mean , these are three examples sortof looking at it . You have the wider section for the main controls there . Uh you could see how many buttons there are . And then on the left you have an example of the round buttons , and a simpler design . On thebottom we probably wouldn't need that , because it's more for like a D_V_D_ {vocalsound} function which we are not gonna be using . Um . So again it's sort of like just give you ideas and then down at the bottom youhave the logos and that's where you could put the R_R_ , Real Reaction .Project Manager: 'Kay .User Interface: And then finally these are like the sort of same examples , but also some more , just possibilities that wecould go with . None of them I'm particularly keen on by the way . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Hmm .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: No .User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} But it's sort of like justtaking aspects out of that and saying , well out of this one we like , you know the round section of um , b or we'd like the the button size on this .Project Manager: Mm . Or I like , you know , the black finish or the silverfinish or whatever .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Right .Marketing: I have four of those remotes .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Good lord .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}ProjectManager: {vocalsound} Okay . Ready ? Oh , yeah . Okay .User Interface: That's it .Project Manager: Great job .Industrial Designer: Okay , my turn .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay .IndustrialDesigner: Whoo .Project Manager: What's the title ?Industrial Designer: It'll be copy of component design .Project Manager: Got it .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Th that looks like it . 'Kay . So basic remote operation runsas follows , press button makes connection with the power source and the rest of the circuit , chip senses the connection , chip produces a morse code infra-red signal , specific to that button . So you press the button ,it produces uh a signal that's encoded specifically for that button . Transistors amplify that signal and it goes to the T_V_'s centre , which interprets the signal response accordingly , changes channel etcetera . So thatbeing said {disfmarker} Next slide , please . Findings oh which were the required materials for the basic internal construction , so all the really simplistic functions that we just discussed , we need rubber for buttons ,aluminium for battery y contacts , integrated circuit which consists of a diode , transistor , resonator , resistors , and a capacitator , all those basic things that make a circuit function . Um fibreglass and thin copper wireto create the actual circuit board itself . An L_E_D_ , which is a light emitting diode , um contact discs for the buttons , plastic for the casing , and a power-source , whatever power-source we've actually determined wewant . Next slide , please . Thank you . Uh personal preferences , uh to save money for the components , the remote should be mass-produced and basic materials should be bought en masse . Um if we find anothercompany who can produce the required chips , casing , L_E_D_ , any additional materials we decide we require at a less expensive rate than we ourselves are producing , we should go for it . {vocalsound} Next slide ,please . Um just talking to the um manufacturing division . They suggested power options , solar cells , hand dynamo , and kinetic power , so you shake it and it increases the power . Um I'm not sure how the handdynamo works , they have yet to get back to me on that .Project Manager: Hmm .Industrial Designer: So next slide , please .Project Manager: Interesting .Industrial Designer: Suggested casing options . Okay . We canoffer options for casing such as straight , curved , double-curved , you know , very specific to the customer . Options for materials , plastic , rubber , titanium , wood .Project Manager: {gap}Industrial Designer: I don'tthink anyone's gonna go for a wood one , because splinters {disfmarker}Marketing: That would be amazing , though , yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: {gap}Marketing:No , splinters would {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Um certain restrictions do apply here though . Uh latex , you can't do solar power with a latex one . So , if they want some a soft squishy rubber ,they can't have the solar powered option . Double-curved , you can't do titanium .Marketing: What is that ?Industrial Designer: Um that would be two curvatures , so it would actually , if you {disfmarker} the shape ofyour hand , you curve here and you curve here , so you could have two curves that match the shape of your hand to make it more comfortable to hold .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: Now ifyou wanted that , you can't do titanium . And uh so you {gap} functions what {disfmarker} for the buttons , scrolling function could be very beneficial to us instead of actual buttons themselves .User Interface: Right.Project Manager: 'Kay .Industrial Designer: I think I have one more slide .Project Manager: No , okay .Industrial Designer: No , I didn't . Um the manufacturing division also has said that um {vocalsound} they haveseveral types of chips and they've just developed a sample sensor or sample speaker chip , which we could utilise . Um push button requires a simple chip and scroll requires more complicated chip . So depends on whatwe decide we wanna do . In addition to that if we're offering all those different options to the customer for producing their remote , we're going to have to have multiples of each type , like a double-curved in rubber ,um you know , each option should have a certain select number produced with all those options . So we'll have to mix it up , make sure we produce enough of everyone . But that could also drive up the price of theactual remote itself if they know that we only produced five thousand , you know , double-curved wooden remotes .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: Right .Project Manager: Hmm .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager:Okay . Alright ,Industrial Designer: And that's all I got .Project Manager: well thank you for those informative presentations . Let's go back to um {disfmarker} Now we have to make some decisions . Where were we?User Interface: Let me just add one more thing that I couldn't say before ,Project Manager: Sure .User Interface: and that's just that there's the new technology that they've developed on the voice recognition . Um.Marketing: Oh this {disfmarker} the thing we were talking about earlier .User Interface: Right except that it's sort of odd , and I'm no not exactly sure why they are explaining it in the way they are , um there's asample sensor and there's a sample speaker unit for {disfmarker} So , you would say like , good morning , coffeemaker , and it would respond , good morning , Jill ,Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: butI'm not sure exactly how it's gonna work , 'cause do you programme {disfmarker} do we program the responses and the questions . So does that mean that the user then has to ask the specific question , and can'tchange it in order for it to be recognised ,Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: or can it be altered in a certain way , or does the actually user program it , to say a channel means this .Project Manager: Right . Right.Marketing: Yeah , like using the menu to be like , enter your name into the screen like on the menu options .User Interface: Right ,Marketing: So that way the remote reads it .User Interface: so it's got like a limitedmemory and {gap} programme it . So it's sort of iffy ,Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: but that's kind of what you'd say .Marketing: I feel like voice recognition would be , I don't know , w it would be too hard toreally {disfmarker}Project Manager: Hmm . Programme .Marketing: I mean we could do it , but {disfmarker}Project Manager: If it's within our price to get that kind of chip that would , you know , technology{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well , we are making the chip .Marketing: Technology .Project Manager: Hmm .Industrial Designer: So , I mean {disfmarker} But , I guess , we have to look at w what{vocalsound} our production cost is for the chip itself anyway .Marketing: And it is a growing trend , the higher technological , likeProject Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: the , I mean just like themore advanced it is ,Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: the better it'll sell .Industrial Designer: I I thought {vocalsound} offering some of those options for different materials that it could be made of different , youknow {disfmarker} I think we'd have to decide on the power options , maybe .Project Manager: Hmm .Industrial Designer: So that we could reduce cost .Marketing: Yeah , 'cause we need to know how big it's gonna beand how heavy . {gap}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay , that kind of brings us to this , let's let's see if we can decide what kind of energy source we want to have first and foremost . Um .IndustrialDesigner: Okay .Project Manager: Do we wanna go for batteries or a stand like the one that we saw illustrated earlier ?Marketing: Oh the base , yeah .Project Manager: The base , the charging base with rechargeablebatteries ?Industrial Designer: I think the pUser Interface: I always feel like first I wanna know what it looks like , before {disfmarker}Project Manager: Hmm .User Interface: 'Cause if it's something really really small ,then it's sort of harder to imagine a base for it , that was p quite a s substantial size sort of standing up {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah , and we don't have multiple things that it has to control , it just has to controlthe T_V_ .Marketing: WProject Manager: It's not gonna be a huge universal remote .User Interface: Right .Marketing: We need to decide , well so we can figure how big it's gonna be , like exactly what buttons wewantProject Manager: What size battery and {disfmarker}User Interface: Well , the other thing is like even if it's got a few buttons , so we want it to be bigger than this ,Marketing: and exactly {disfmarker} It could belike this . Yes .User Interface: 'cause it still fits in your hand , so you still wanted something that's comfortable and substantial , but not necessarily full of buttons .Marketing: I'd , well uh {disfmarker} This one is reallycomfortable , like I like the sides whatever ,User Interface: Are you gonna lose it easier ?Marketing: because {disfmarker} But if we have the um , the locator , then we don't have to worry about that .IndustrialDesigner: That's true .Marketing: So we can make it small if we have a l locating device .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: If we do a voice-activated locator , though , we're gonna be looking at a moresubstantial chip . So {disfmarker}User Interface: So i That's the other thing ,Marketing: Hmm .User Interface: it's like {disfmarker} You know {gap} Are we gonna have certain chips that are gonna require bigger size{vocalsound} period ?Marketing: Two double A_s , for this size .User Interface: But like , you know , if we get more complicated then it's gonna v be {disfmarker} have to be bigger to just accommodate the chip size.Marketing: Right .Industrial Designer: Honestly , I think the customer would be kind of irritated by the fact that it has a base if we did do a nice small , compact {disfmarker}Project Manager: Right . I agree , it's eithergonna be bigger with a base or smaller with just {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: So we shMarketing: Smaller , without {disfmarker}Project Manager: A battery like this guy .Marketing: Yeah .IndustrialDesigner: Mm yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Alright , so what direction do you want to go in ? You wanna vote ?Marketing: I think if we had a a locating device with the small one , I think that seems waymore advanced .Project Manager: I'm kind of I'm kind of leaning in the direction of this kind ofIndustrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: I'm a away from the base .Project Manager: bigger and the base .User Interface:Yeah .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: That just seems so clunky and {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: 'Kay so {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah , because I mean if even looking at cellphones right now , those trendsthe smaller the hotter it is ,User Interface: Smaller and smaller , yeah , yeah , yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: yeah {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: The only problem with that is if you forgetto take it out of your pocket and it goes in wash .User Interface: {vocalsound} You're kidding .Marketing: {vocalsound} Oh .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} You know it happens.Project Manager: Hmm .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I've had three watches go that way too .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Oh watches I've {disfmarker} but I'venever washed a cell phone . {vocalsound}Marketing: Ouch . A phone , whoa , that would {disfmarker} wow , that would hurt .Project Manager: Okay , so what kind of material do we want to be made out of ?Industrial"}
{"doc_id":"doc_28","qid":"","text":"Marketing: {vocalsound} Hello . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound} Dang it .Project Manager: {vocalsound} And then you have to place your laptop exactly on the marked spot .Marketing:Alright .User Interface: {gap}Project Manager: It's important to place your laptop exactly on the marked spot over here .User Interface: Okay . No , that's okay . Joost , your mouse .Marketing: What ?User Interface:No mouse needed ?Marketing: I've got a touch-pad .User Interface: Mm .Marketing: Do you know how how I can wake it up ?User Interface: A touch-pad ?Marketing: No , my laptop .User Interface: Slap it .Marketing:{vocalsound} You with your brilliant ideas . I don't know if I can touch the power button . Do you know how how I can wake it up ?User Interface: Is {disfmarker}Project Manager: No . Yeah . Try the power button.Marketing: Oh .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Come on , move it .User Interface: Um {disfmarker}Marketing: Now , wake up , bitch .Project Manager: Huh .User Interface: F_ five . F_ five {gap} .IndustrialDesigner: I've lost my screen . Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah , so did I .User Interface: I don't .Marketing: I closed it . That wasn that wasn't very smart , I guess .User Interface:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Come on . Get back to me . Yes .Industrial Designer: Yes .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I closed the {disfmarker}Marketing: I closed it.User Interface: You've got your name . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah , my name is name .Marketing: No , I didn't restart it , I just closed it . Yes .User Interface: Hope it working .Marketing: Alright .IndustrialDesigner: No .User Interface: Never close your laptop .Project Manager: Yeah ? Everybody's ready ?User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Great . Thanks .Project Manager: Great . Well , welcome to the kick-off meeting . Iuh forgot to put my name over here , it's uh {vocalsound} it's Martin . Uh , so you all know .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well , this is the agenda for today . Well , the opening is what I'm doing right now.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh , we gonna do some acquaintance acquaintance things . Uh give some um examples of the tool training , project plan discussion and the closing . We have twenty fiveminutes . Okay , the project aim is to design a new remote control .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Uh , some of the {vocalsound} oje objectives are that is has to be original , trendy , and user-friendly . Sonow we all know what ourUser Interface: Okay .Project Manager: goal is . Um , I {disfmarker} oh forget {disfmarker} I forget the whole acquaintance part , but we we all know each other . We all know each other'snames . Joost , Guido , Antek .User Interface: What is your name ?Marketing: Yes .Industrial Designer: Yes . Antek .User Interface: Antek Ahmet . And Joost . {gap}Project Manager: Okay . I think we uh al already uhbeen through that part .User Interface: Okay . Yeah .Project Manager: Okay , it consists of uh three levels of design . Uh we begin with the functional design , then we go to the conceptual design and the detailed design. Every uh level of design consists of some individual work , and we uh close it with a meeting . You all received an email with a example of our explanation of what uh the particular level of design uh means to thedifferent uh functions , and uh you p you probably read that already , so I don't have to tell you about that .User Interface: Yes .Marketing: Yes .Project Manager: Okay , first we're gonna um uh gonna try somedifferent things with the tools we have over here , so you get acquainted with these uh um uh meeting tools . We have the smart-boards , uh the thes those two boards . This is the presentation boards , wh which oneI'm using right now . You can uh um {disfmarker} there's a document folder called um the sh {vocalsound} shared document folder . You can upload your uh documents to that folder and then you can open them overhere , so you can do your PowerPoint presentations on this screen . We also have the white-board . Uh , we're gonna skip through thUser Interface: Can we see the white-board on our laptops ?Project Manager: No , no. Just on the on the screen over there .User Interface: No , I saw I saw the file , the smart-board that X_B_K_ but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Oh , no . Probably is , but I don't know if the software is on the laptop{gap} . Is is {disfmarker} if it's mainly a thing for in the meeting , so I don't think it's {disfmarker} I don't know if it's important .User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: This an explanation of the smart-boards . Thereis a tool-bar over here . It's quite simple . You have the the pen function , eraser function . It's like a very simple uh paint application . Uh , we {disfmarker} well , we use the same file during uh the whole day , and uhyou can make new sheets by uh by pu puttin pressing on the blank button . It works like this . Oh . {vocalsound} If pen is selected , yes .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh , nono .User Interface: With that pen ?Project Manager: It's not {disfmarker} But it is pen . It's not working like a pen yet .User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: Huh . Huh .User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: It's doingsome stuff now . So you can use a pen .User Interface: Little bit slower .Project Manager: You can use an eraser . And you can make new uh fi uh new blanks , and you can change uh the line width and the colour of thepen by pressing on forward , which y you have to select pen format . And then select current colour or line width . So , it's quite easy . Uh well , now you're all uh acquainted with the different tools . Right , we're gonnatry out the electronic white-boards . Uh , every participant should draw his favourite animal and some of its favourite characteristics ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: onblank sheets with different colours , with different pen widths . Uh , I'll start off then . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I'll use this uh same sheet . Alright . Oh , let me think . Different colours .Oh .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well , I'm gonna draw um a p piranha . Uh , a fish .User Interface: {vocalsound} piranha . Okay .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}ProjectManager: Uh . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm-hmm . I'm gonna use some different colour {gap} now .User Interface: Oh .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager:Some {disfmarker} a little white . Looks like a fish . Think it is . Oh .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh . {vocalsound} Uh , colour . This is black ? I think so .User Interface: Yellow {gap}{disfmarker}Project Manager: Oh . Oh , this is just uh {vocalsound} useless uh drawings but {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh teeth . I need teeth . {vocalsound} Well , they're not supposedto be green , or whatever colour this is .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Hmm .Project Manager: Okay . What was uh {disfmarker} I have su to sum up its favourite characterisUser Interface: Different .ProjectManager: Well , I like its uh sharp {disfmarker} razor sharp teeth . {vocalsound} Plus , uh the the big uh forehead and uh a small uh , well a small actual face . And I like its overall uh aggressive look and {disfmarker}Well , that's what I like about uh piranha . I think that's kind of what uh the intention should be .User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: Well , who wants to be next ?Marketing: Nobody , I guess . {vocalsound}UserInterface: {vocalsound} I will try . Yeah . I will try . Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: You go , Guido ? Okay . Uh , make a new sheet . Uh , it's by pressing on blank .User Interface: Blank ?Project Manager: Yep .UserInterface: Okay . Then pen again ?Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yep .User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: And uh {disfmarker} so in the format menu you can choose the different uh colours and uh penwidths .User Interface: Okay , um {disfmarker}Marketing: Format .User Interface: {gap} control . Uh {disfmarker} Ah , purple . Um , I don't know what my uh favourite uh animal is ,Marketing: {vocalsound}UserInterface: but the easiest animal I can think is is a bird .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh I will {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound} You know , I thought of that actually .User Interface: That's my bird . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Yeah ?Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: Isn't it quite {disfmarker} it's a little bit light .Marketing:{vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh , another colour maybe . A red one .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: A small one . Uh , linewidth . Two ? Three . Oh that's okay . That's another one .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Well , tell us something about uh your favourite characteristics of these uh particular birds .UserInterface: {vocalsound} Ano {vocalsound} Uh {vocalsound} uh {vocalsound} it's a {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: Its simplicity . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah , it's uh themost simple uh animal I know , I think .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Um , I don't know . Maybe because uh there's there'ssome s uh free uh maybe in the sky or something like that .Project Manager: Oh , okay . Okay .User Interface: Maybe a little bit . Yeah . I don't know .Project Manager: Okay . No , uh it's clear .User Interface: So {gap}more uh birds ?Project Manager: N no {vocalsound} no .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: We get your point . Okay . Who wants to be next ?User Interface: {vocalsound}{gap} Okay , {vocalsound} okay , {vocalsound} okay .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah , whatever . I'll go next .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Thanks .User Interface: MMarketing: I haven't got a favouriteanimal too , so {disfmarker}User Interface: Pictionary . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Oh . {vocalsound} What should I draw ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh .UserInterface: A cow .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Okay .Marketing: Thank you ,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: I'lldraw a penguin . {vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound} I'll draw a penguin . Whatever . I can't draw , so you can start to laugh already .Project Manager: {vocalsound} I'll do so . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: Whatever . Something like that .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: Come on .User Interface: Yeah , it's little bit hard .Marketing: Mmhmm hmm , orange .User Interface: Orange , of course .Marketing: Whatever .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Oh , {vocalsound} it's better than your bird .User Interface: {gap} Uh yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Everything's better than your bird .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound} True .Marketing: Whatever .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Hey , it's blue .No . Whatever . Um , I like its ugliness {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: and uh {disfmarker} Yeah , whatever . The way it walks or whatever .Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Your turn .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: 'Kay . {vocalsound}Marketing: Drawing . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I'm going to draw a cat . I don't know why , but a cat is a very uhsmart animal .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: And you can have them at home .User Interface: {gap}Industrial Designer: Which is not as the case with uh with bingwings and {disfmarker}ProjectManager: {vocalsound} Well , you can have a piranha at home .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Ye yes , {vocalsound} yeah .{vocalsound}Project Manager: Huh .Marketing: Or a line .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: A little bit . {vocalsound}Marketing: I mean a bird . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface:Yeah . {vocalsound} Don't mess with my birds , yeah .Industrial Designer: It's not very uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} very good drawn , but you can see a cat from it . {vocalsound}Marketing: Hmm . It's ahandicapped cat .User Interface: {vocalsound} {gap} cat .Project Manager: I don't think uh I don't think uh Darwin would agree with that . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}UserInterface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} It's {gap} {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Ah , it's not scared . He's crying but {disfmarker}Project Manager: {gap} . Okay .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} He's crying because it's uglbecause of his ugliness .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} What do you like about it then ?Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh it's i most cats are small .ProjectManager: Oh , okay .Industrial Designer: You can handle them . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay . Okay . Okay ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: and then weare uh through the tool training , I guess .User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I wouldn't call it training , but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay , this is uh somethingabout the project finance . The selling price of our remote control is gonna be twenty five Euros . And our profit aim is fifteen million Euros . We're very ambitious on this one . {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound}Project Manager: The market range is international , so it's gonna be sold world-wide , and the production cost should be a maximum of twelve Euro fifty per remote control . So that's clear . {gap}{disfmarker} Yeah ?User Interface: Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound} Alright .Project Manager: Okay , we're now gonna discuss some stuff when {disfmarker} well , we're gonna brainstorm about uh what kind of kemororomo remote control it's gonna be . Uh , well tell me about your experiences with the remote controls . Do you have uh {disfmarker} know what good experiences with remote controls ? Or do they annoy yousometimes ?Industrial Designer: Yes .Project Manager: Are they difficult to understand , or maybe they don't interact with different kind of uh equipment very well ?User Interface: Hmm .Marketing: I don't th I don'tthink the four of us got problems with remote controls ,Project Manager: Yeah , okay .Marketing: but if you see elderly people , all these buttons , and then they buy new T_V_ because their previous one was stolen orwhatever .User Interface: Different .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: And then a totally different remote control with with different functions on different places , and half of the functions a are removed , or whatever. Uh , so I think what we need is is a clear uh remote control with uh grouped buttons , you know . All th all the buttons which apply to the text functions in in one uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Different functions ofof uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Well , one area or whatever , not like the button to enter text on top of the remote control and the button to um , yeah , to minimise it to this this {vocalsound} {disfmarker} or whatever oo other functions {vocalsound} totally somewhere else .Project Manager: Okay . Yeah .Marketing: I think we should group them .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: And same for the for the volume buttons and the thetProject Manager: And uh , is it gonna be a remote control that's um {disfmarker} what it can be used for different kind of equipment , like your T_V_ and your home stereo ?Marketing: Well I was I was thinking uhsince a T_V_ is uh mostly used together with a V_C_R_ or D_V_D_ player or recorder , and not with a stereo , I think it should be good to include functions for V_C_R_s and D_V_D_ players , recorders .ProjectManager: Uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . But uh , the D_V_D_ players and home cinema sets often double as stereo hi-fi sets probably .Marketing: Yeah .ProjectManager: It's what , from my experience .User Interface: But isn't it {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: I don't know . Hi-fi set is uh not often used uh as I know of in combination with television .Project Manager:Okay . But we gonna {disfmarker}User Interface: It's only for television , I thought . Not {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yes .Project Manager: Oh , it is only for televisUser Interface: {gap} I thought it was onlyfor television . So so we probably don't have to have to uh have the functions for D_V_D_ player or V_C_R_ .Marketing: Yes , it is only for television , but uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: So wha what {disfmarker}What wha {vocalsound} what uh what document {disfmarker}Marketing: Well {disfmarker} well we we're gonna brainstorm about that . If we think it's useful , we do it .Project Manager: But , where where did it uh{disfmarker} Where did you find that ?User Interface: Uh , in the email .Project Manager: Oh , okay .User Interface: I thought it said uh {disfmarker}Marketing: That's right . It's a television remote control .UserInterface: Yeah , television remote control .Industrial Designer: Yes , {gap} {disfmarker}Marketing: But I was thinking since it is useful with D_V_D_ {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah , but most television remotecontrols support other functions as well . So we can {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yes , that's uh something extras .Project Manager: No , we have to think about that .User Interface: True . Yeah .Project Manager:Okay , uh but uh we've gonna put some a uh is is it so user-friendliness , is a is a pri priority in this case , or {disfmarker}User Interface: True .Marketing: Yep .User Interface: Yeah , yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah , also no one's gonna buy it .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Yeah . True .Industrial Designer: Only the experts . {vocalsound}Marketing: I guess .Project Manager: Well , this the maybe is uhsome aspect of the {disfmarker} uh , or or some point at at which we can excel by making it very useful .Industrial Designer: {gap}Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: That w Well , then you're you're the usability uhman , so this uh gonna be a very important task for you then .User Interface: {vocalsound} Oh my God . Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: Okay . Well , other ideas ? How can we make it trendyor something ? Do uh by just sh shape and the look of it ?Industrial Designer: Uh , to go with to go with fashion and {disfmarker}Project Manager: Maybe a can opener underneath it ?User Interface: {vocalsound} Forthe bear . Uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} I don't know . Or someth something special , like uh M_P_ three player inside of it , or uh{disfmarker}User Interface: I I uh , no I think it {disfmarker}Project Manager: Oh , well then the production costs are gonna be too high probably .User Interface: Uh , I th I think yo we have to keep it simple , to get awhole market .Marketing: Yeah , way too high . Yep .Project Manager: Okay . Maybe with different type of fronts or uh {disfmarker}User Interface: It's international , so we have to use a standard .Project Manager:Well , m has to be something {vocalsound} spectacular or uh one which makes it {disfmarker}Marketing: Well that's an idea of course , yeah .Project Manager: We gonna skip back to the goals probably . Uh,Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: original , trendly , and user-friendly {disfmarker} Well , we al also already talked about user-friendliness .User Interface: Hmm .Project Manager: No , well something trendy andoriginal , well that that goes hand in hand I guess . When something is original , it tends to be trendy , probably ,Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: or we should make it combination of that . 'Kay , so you{vocalsound} {disfmarker} the um technical part of the process is something you're gonna look after for , so you have to think about what kind of uh equipment you want to uh , you know , you want to manage with it. Well , and that's an important part for you then , with gogors regards to the user-friendly part of it .User Interface: Use friendly . Yep .Project Manager: Well , and you uh should look out for what makes it trendy ."}
{"doc_id":"doc_29","qid":"","text":"User Interface: Oops .Project Manager: So , hello everyone . {vocalsound} We're here to have a kick-off meeting for the design of a {disfmarker} f for the beginning of new project um {vocalsound} uh remote controlfor the design for a new remote control {vocalsound} . I'm the Project Manager Christa Pavlov and {vocalsound} okay let's begin . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} So I'm firstgoing to do an opening then we get used to one anothers and we speak about this tool we're going to design and try to make a project plan , some discussion and then we talk of uh the next meeting . So um we want toto do a new remote control . It has to be original , trendy and user friendly .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um I think the important points we have to t talk about are uh it's functional design , it's conceptualdesign , and desail detailed design . {gap} and for that we're going um all to work individually and then have meeting during the whole day . Um , so {vocalsound} let's try the whiteboard {vocalsound} .Marketing:{vocalsound} {vocalsound} Wow . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um so any of you who want to go .User Interface: Yeah , for favourite animals .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: It's gonnabe not my favourite one but the one I can draw .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} And it's gonna be {disfmarker} you'll try to guess .Marketing: Wow .{vocalsound} {vocalsound} Complex .Project Manager: Wow . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Huh ? A cat .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: No . {vocalsound}ProjectManager: {vocalsound}User Interface: No . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: No . Darn . {vocalsound} Uh .Project Manager: A rabbit .User Interface: Yes , that's a rabbit .Project Manager:{vocalsound} A rabbit .User Interface: That's my favourite one .Marketing: A what ?Industrial Designer: Rabbit .Marketing: A r a rabbit , oh oh yeah , where is the carrot ? {vocalsound}Project Manager:{vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} That's it .Marketing: Okay {vocalsound} mm-hmm .Project Manager: You want to go ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: I am not very good at uh {vocalsound}this kind of stuff .User Interface: Hmm . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: My favourite animal is {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}You waMarketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Wow . {vocalsound}Project Manager: A humanIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Guess .Project Manager: {vocalsound} ah .Marketing: {vocalsound} Ahuman , yay . It's a very complex animal {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: No .Marketing: and um {disfmarker} yeah . Characteristics of this this animal is{vocalsound} dangerous . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm I think you're supposed to , yeah .Industrial Designer: Is the white {disfmarker} okay.Project Manager: Hmm .Industrial Designer: I guess you can {disfmarker} {vocalsound} {gap} . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Wow . That's cobra .Marketing: Ah , a kind of uh snake ?Cobra ?Industrial Designer: Yeah uh not really .Marketing: Exactly {vocalsound} . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Small cobra . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: No , it just{disfmarker} small cobra , yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Is that a worm ? Or {vocalsound} {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: Uh-huh . {vocalsound}User Interface: It's co c quite recognisable .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} What about you uh {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh yeah Christa Pavlov {vocalsound} Mm.Marketing: Christa ? {vocalsound}User Interface: Christa {vocalsound} Christa .Industrial Designer: Chris . {vocalsound}Marketing: A fish . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: Hmm .ProjectManager: Smiling fish {vocalsound} .Industrial Designer: Smile fish . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Okay .Marketing: A smiling fish . {vocalsound} Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: So , wwhiteboard is working ? {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound}Marketing: Good . {vocalsound} Next . {vocalsound}Project Manager:Next . Let's talk about money .User Interface: Just tr try to guess who is a User Interface Designer .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah , well . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager:{vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} According to the drawings .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah , you're {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Not me . {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound} Okay .Project Manager: {vocalsound} So .Marketing: So . Twenty five Euro for a remote control .Project Manager: Yeah , mm that's the price we want to {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Hmm .ProjectManager: that's the aim for the price for the remote control .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: We aim to do {vocalsound} this profit . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Onthe international market .Marketing: {vocalsound} 'tis big number .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah . Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Yeah , we're to sell two million then .Project Manager: {vocalsound}UserInterface: Wow .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Mm {vocalsound} for a production cost of mm twelve fifty Euros maximum . {vocalsound} 'Kay {vocalsound} . So any of you have experience in remote controls? {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Mm yeah .Marketing: Uh yes , we have plenty at home .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} In fact , my daughter likes l{vocalsound} {gap} {vocalsound} remote controls .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} That {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm . To eat ? {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: To eat ? Yeah , mainly , and to break . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} So that could be a great um {vocalsound} application .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Remote controls children proof . Mm mm-hmm .Marketing: Mm-hmm . Yeah .User Interface: Children proof .Marketing: {vocalsound} Ye ye yeah .User Interface: Hmm .Marketing: Soshe likes uh buttons {vocalsound} which make click ,Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay .Industrial Designer: Yeah , pretProject Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: so {vocalsound} it has to click .Project Manager: Sothey have to be waterproof maybe ?Marketing: It has to be uh wha {vocalsound} baby proof {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} 'Cause they eat {disfmarker} she ate it . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: yeah {vocalsound} but mainly it has to be very robustProject Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: because even if she's not very tall she's uh {vocalsound} high enough so that uh when she throwit away it's uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Ah .Marketing: So it has to be very robust .User Interface: Okay , unbreakable .Marketing:Unbreakable , yeah .User Interface: Uh-huh .Industrial Designer: Yeah , we have some child lock or something , yeah .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: And uh {vocalsound} it has to benice looking ,Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: colourful , maybe {disfmarker}Project Manager: Colourful , yeah mm .User Interface: Colourful ? That's not practical .Marketing: colourful , because uh nobody hascolourful remote controlIndustrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: No , that's a good idea .Industrial Designer: Yeah , it's always black or {disfmarker} yeah .Marketing: , they're always black , yeah ,Project Manager:Mm mm-mm .User Interface: No .Marketing: but this one could be I dunno , purple or bProject Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound}User Interface: But how gonna {disfmarker} okay , just uh but it's uh monochrome it's n it'snot like {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah , yeah .Project Manager: No ,Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: because you think , why not .User Interface: Otherwise you will never find it.Marketing: One colour .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah , yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah even we can change colours , no ? Like the uhMarketing: Oh like the phones ,Industrial Designer: like the phonesand these things we c yeah .Marketing: yeah , it could change colours , yeah .User Interface: Cool .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: At least for children like one colour and {gap} . {vocalsound}UserInterface: ChMarketing: Yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Good idea .Marketing: Good .Industrial Designer: And it should be really {gap} small and {gap} .Project Manager: Small also ? Don't you think{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Huh not so big like {disfmarker} yeah .Project Manager: No uh , not too much buttons or {disfmarker} mm .Industrial Designer: Yeah , not too much buttons and{disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Should it be , y you know these uh remote controls where um they are what they call a universal ret remote controlProject Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: so y you can decidethat now it's the remote control for the television , then it's the remote control for the the sound system , or for your refrigeratorIndustrial Designer: Uh . Yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Yeah,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} whatever {vocalsound}Project Manager: that's {disfmarker}Marketing: I dunno if it's {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Or if we shouldhave a targeted re remote control .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound} So colour , robustness , easy to use , size ,Project Manager: So , I think there's {disfmarker}Marketing: yeah , size matters , yeah .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah . Colour , {vocalsound} size , shProject Manager: So you you think it's better if small than bigger .Industrial Designer: Yeah , maybe at least n not bigger than this I guess .{vocalsound}Marketing: Mm .User Interface: Yeah , but without any extremes like n not of this size , not too large . Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: No , not too small , yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeahyeah , at least it should hold in your hand n properly , like {gap} .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Hmm .User Interface: Yeah , like a palm sized .Industrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound}User Interface: Just to holdit .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: But uh what would be different from this , from the others ? I dunno if {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Uh maybe we can change the colours that{disfmarker} at least the frame . Mm . S so then it depends {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah , at least the colour would be different .Industrial Designer: you are to {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer:Mm I mean you c you can easily remove the frame {gap} .Marketing: I think one thing important for instance in this remote control if you remember when people use it they're {disfmarker} they never find a goodbutton in the right place .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah .Marketing: For some reason they they they click the off button when they want to use the {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Yeah .Marketing: So there's a problem in the design of that kind of remote control somehow ,Project Manager: Mm . So , some kind of idea uh with um um {vocalsound} cellular phone with a a screen that will tell youwhat {disfmarker}Marketing: I dunno {gap} .User Interface: No ,Project Manager: no .User Interface: no screens , it's too complex .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: Mm . {vocalsound} Too expensive ,yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound} Too expensive for twelve Euro ?User Interface: And n maybe not too expensive ,Project Manager: And too expensive .User Interface: well it's not my problem , but well okay .Marketing:Ah .User Interface: But no screens on remote controls .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: Mm-hmm . I thought it could be only a screen {vocalsound} which would change depending on uh uh the use or even the user.User Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: So ma I prefer to have the off button at the top right ,Industrial Designer: Ye yeah .Marketing: so I would have my own design of the remote control because it's in fact just a a fulltouch screen remote control ,Industrial Designer: Hmm .Marketing: if you {disfmarker} if you like .Industrial Designer: I mean it it's likeMarketing: I don't know if it makes sense , but {disfmarker}Project Manager:Mm-mm .Industrial Designer: {disfmarker} it's like two types no ? {vocalsound} people are right handed or left handed so y because I am left handed I use like this , say if you're right handed you use likethisMarketing: Yeah , for instance , mm .User Interface: Mm-hmm , mm-hmm .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Mm mm mm .Industrial Designer: or {disfmarker} so tha your switch on and off should be onMarketing: Mm.Project Manager: So adaptable {vocalsound} {disfmarker} yeah something {disfmarker}User Interface: Adaptable . Alright , good ,Industrial Designer: {disfmarker} yeah .Marketing: Maybe , if if it's possible , yeah.Project Manager: yeah .Industrial Designer: Mm {vocalsound}User Interface: so how many actions do we need to implement in it ?Industrial Designer: huh .User Interface: On off ?Industrial Designer: Maybe I thinkeven we can keep two switches and then we can uh only make one working .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .Industrial Designer: We can adapt only one switch , suppose here like we can make two switches and if I'mleft-hander I use this switch to follow the main operations .User Interface: I mean if it's less than three uh then we can make it uh like aIndustrial Designer: Two .Marketing: Three buttons you mean ?User Interface:{vocalsound} like three mental states ,Project Manager: Three option .User Interface: yeah you know what I mean ,Marketing: Ah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: we can just make ituhIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Yeah . Yeah .Project Manager: Um .User Interface: controlled by a brain , huh ? {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Mm-hmm , yeah , sure . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Maybe if it's more , if there is a software insideIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: that askyou three {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Hmm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} If it {disfmarker} if wewant a r universal remote control that we sa like we say before it may may need more than three mm three button , three mm possibilities , ye yeah .User Interface: Sh sure , sure .Marketing: Yeah , more than threeactions that you may want to do at a given time .Industrial Designer: Mm yeah . Yeah . {vocalsound}User Interface: But for standard actions you usually what do you do , you change channels , you adjust volume , andnothing else .Marketing: Yeah but for instance when you change channels you can have {disfmarker} you can just go to the next one or go to channel twenty five .Industrial Designer: Mm . Yeah .Project Manager: Mm .{vocalsound}Marketing: And that's already more complex to go to channel twenty five . {vocalsound}User Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: You do this ?Industrial Designer: Yeah{vocalsound} .Marketing: Uh no .User Interface: I usually just change channels .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Because I'm only using three or four channels but {disfmarker}{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah . But they keep generally their t slash slash uh this thing and then the dash dash and then you can put {disfmarker} yeah , you can only have one bit .ProjectManager: Yeah . I change channel like this , m uh I want to go to twenty five , and then to ten , uh-huh mm yeah .Industrial Designer: Dash .Marketing: And then back to the one I was before ,Project Manager: Also wecan be here {disfmarker}Marketing: so there's {disfmarker} whichever it was .User Interface: Uh-huh .Industrial Designer: Yeah you canProject Manager: yeah , that would be cool .Industrial Designer: {disfmarker}yeah .User Interface: Go back button is good .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah . Uh uh we had that in in other countries .User Interface: I once had it .Industrial Designer: Yeah yeah , the previous button is{gap} .Project Manager: Mm {vocalsound} yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah e even the history so you could like uh undo {vocalsound} previous of the previous . {vocalsound}User Interface: Mm-hmm .IndustrialDesigner: Uh , okay . {vocalsound}User Interface: History . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Oh {vocalsound} uh {vocalsound} .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Then you can watch what your {disfmarker}ah you could also record your {disfmarker} record your {vocalsound} sequence of actions ,Industrial Designer: Uh .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound} that becomes more complex ,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: but you could look at what uh the other people have used there or {disfmarker} {vocalsound}remote controls .Industrial Designer: Yeah yeah , what the {disfmarker} which channels the viewer {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm-mm .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah {vocalsound}Project Manager:{vocalsound} Okay .Marketing: maybe it's a {disfmarker}Project Manager: So I think we have full of idea .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Um we're going to meet again in thirty minutes and uh I want you to mm{vocalsound} work on these ideas and try to make a uh {vocalsound} the ones , {vocalsound} make um {disfmarker} to decide what what are the ones important and what are the one that we don't want .{vocalsound} And um m maybe more in the technical parts what uh do we want to do . Um . {vocalsound} So um your personal coach will send you some instruction for for this thirty minutes .Marketing: So what doesM_E_ means ? M_E_ the user requirements ? Or that's uh that's for us ?User Interface: Market Expert .Project Manager: Mm . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Marketing {disfmarker} yeah {vocalsound} {gap}.Marketing: Uh that's me .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Oh , of course {vocalsound} yeah , the user requirement specifications , uh-huh , yeah .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Okay .{vocalsound} I'll think of that .Project Manager: Mm okay . So .Marketing: So ?Project Manager: I think that's all .Marketing: Meeting's over ?Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Okay .Marketing: Great .IndustrialDesigner: Thank you .Marketing: Thank you .Project Manager: See you in thirty minutes .User Interface: Thank you everybody ."}
{"doc_id":"doc_30","qid":"","text":"User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: Okay , almost there .Project Manager: Okay . We'll sta I'll use the PowerPoint , I guess . How was that , was that fun ?User Interface: Mm . Very fun .Industrial Designer: Yeah, yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay . Uh oh I've forgotten to mail you the minutes , but I will do .Industrial Designer: Okay .Marketing: Hmm .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Upsidaisy . {vocalsound} Um{vocalsound} {vocalsound} Um we {disfmarker}Marketing: E excuse me I forgot myProject Manager: Yeah .Marketing: copy . {gap}Project Manager: Alright , okay , yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}ProjectManager: He's gonna get his pen .User Interface: Oh right . Okay .Project Manager: Um {vocalsound} Will you guys first with your prototype um before we get to the good news ?Industrial Designer: Yeah , there's goodnews ?Project Manager: Uh {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Oh .User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: we have budget problems .Industrial Designer: Oh . Cutbacks .Project Manager: I'm afraid you'reall sacked . Oops .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I don't even have this on . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Hmm .Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Okay , have you got apresentation to make ?Industrial Designer: Okay .Marketing: No , not mine yet .Project Manager: No . OkayIndustrial Designer: Oh .Project Manager: so it's just your your show .Industrial Designer: Um maybe weshould bring {gap} so that the camera can see {gap} . Yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Okay . Sure .Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: We made three foryou .Project Manager: Three ? Oh .User Interface: Um one's based on the banana , one's based on the tomatoProject Manager: Tomato ? What tomato ? {vocalsound}User Interface: and the other one is stMarketing:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I don't recall a tomato . {vocalsound}User Interface: Look . Oh yeah , well yeah , we had v some red left over .Project Manager: Ah I see , okay .{vocalsound}User Interface: So . Okay , so this is the um non to non uh no buttons one , or as mm few buttons as possible ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: mainly speak recognition . The yellow there isthe umProject Manager: Logo .User Interface: the slogan , yeah ,Project Manager: Okay , brilliant .User Interface: that we need to incorporate , it's very simple . If you do need buttons , you can flip it over , and there'ssome there ,Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: um but mainly it's speech recognition .Project Manager: Okay , so the buttons would be like , you know individual users , or {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah and {vocalsound} yeah they might project things onto the screen which you can do on there .Project Manager: Alright , okay .User Interface: Mm I'm not sure about that .Um and this one is the one w more like the one w that we looked at earlier .Project Manager: Right .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah , you guys can have a look at that if you want .Project Manager: That's groovy .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {gap}Marketing: Yeah . {vocalsound} Uh can I have {gap}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Well I like the feel of it , I like the feel of it .User Interface: Yeah , sure . Um that one is{disfmarker}Marketing: Oh sorry s {vocalsound}User Interface: Oh no , it's delicate .Project Manager: At Oh dear .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: That's that's already got itsstand that one . That's it stand .Project Manager: Alright , okay .User Interface: It does also lie flat , but that's the that yellow stand there represents the the charging stand .Project Manager: Okay , brilliant mm .UserInterface: Um the black on the back is the slogan .Project Manager: Okay , nice and obvious there {vocalsound} ,User Interface: Uh yeah , that {gap} {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Well , we didthink of that .Project Manager: if it's standing up , I guess , yeah .User Interface: Yeah , if it's standing up it's it's on there , but also we're gonna have the company name on the front , which is the little black kind ofline in the middle .Project Manager: Oh right , okay , brilliant . Like that from its centre .User Interface: So um and that's the um transmit the L_E_D_ thing . These are the s two scroll ones which we thought could bechannel up and down and volume up and down . We n were weren't sure about putting them there , because um i it's it kind of could get bashed .Project Manager: Where you're , yeah , uh were you're holding it kind of{disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah . Well , if you hold it , you can {disfmarker} you all can hold it , is {disfmarker} it does actually feel quite ergonomic ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: if you've got smallhands .Project Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: {vocalsound} Um , obviously I don't think that's real sized {gap} .ProjectManager: Yeah , okay .User Interface: It would have to be a bit bigger .Project Manager: Yeah , scale model , yeah .User Interface: Okay . Um that's a speaker at the top , so you can speak into it like a littlewalkie-talkie as well for speak recognition .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Um and {vocalsound} um then the buttons . Yeah kind of self-explanatory , just buttons whenever you need them . Tried to keepit simple . Oh that's the charging base prongs at the bottom .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Alright , excellent .User Interface: {vocalsound} We used those {gap} . And um then the big red button in the middle is theon and off one .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: It's not in the traditional place ,Project Manager: No .User Interface: but um it's quite an obvious place .Project Manager: It's out of the way as well , I suppose ,so . Excellent .User Interface: So {vocalsound} there we go and and um we have the banana-based one too .Industrial Designer: Oh yeah , yeah .Project Manager: Yep . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: This one is uh, I suppose for the younger audiences .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: A a more friendly type of {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay , {vocalsound} so so Barney the banana {gap} .IndustrialDesigner: Right , right . It's to uh induce more television watching I suppose or {disfmarker}Project Manager: Ah excellent , just what we need .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Sayit for the camera .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Lo Sort of Loch Ness banana . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Right , right .ProjectManager: Cool {gap} yeah . Well , nice to have uh options at least .Industrial Designer: Yep . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: 'Kay and {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} So are there anyum improvements or issues or {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: It won't stand .Project Manager: Oh there are issues , oh there are issues .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Just let it lie down , it wontstand . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um main problem that we have unfortunately being finance .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Oh .Project Manager: Uh , let's justenter in the um evaluation criteria .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um {vocalsound} unfortunately the unit we are currently going to produce minus the extra scroll buttons , uh it's gonna cost usfourteen point six Euros .Marketing: Mm .User Interface: Oh .Project Manager: So we have toIndustrial Designer: What's on the uh on the left ? {gap}Project Manager: rea Sorry , I've accidentally highlighted somehow{disfmarker} Um . {vocalsound} There we go .Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: Oh god , why is it doing that ?User Interface: Ooh .Project Manager: There we go . {vocalsound} So basically , um in order tosave our two Euros um I was thinking that we could have essentially the same shape , but just have it flattened .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Um .User Interface: More like a traditional remote control.Project Manager: Yeah , I mean it's already got a kind of cool shape , so but it wouldn't have to be curved sort of in and out .User Interface: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .Project Manager: And by doing so {disfmarker} Oh no, hold on . Doesn't save us quite as much . I don't know what's going on with this again .Industrial Designer: W why is the uh double curved two of them ?Project Manager: Oh , good point .Marketing: And double curveon both sides ?Project Manager: Um .Marketing: Curve {vocalsound} . Yeah , this is double-curve ,Project Manager: That's {vocalsound} sort of curve in and out .Marketing: no ?Industrial Designer: Is iMarketing: Thisis double-curve . It {disfmarker} This one is single curve .Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: 'Cause this is single curve , this is curved on both sides . So double-curve .Project Manager: No , I think it means doublecurved as in umUser Interface: Like an S_ shape .Project Manager: like uh {gap} a single curve on that bottom half , and the double curved would be if it was that similar curve upward .User Interface: Okay .ProjectManager: Okay , I might be wrong though .Marketing: Like this , one curve on this side , one curve on that side .Project Manager: I don't think that counts as a curve , I think that's just a shape .Marketing: Hmm .Hmm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: A curvature is like the {disfmarker} this case .User Interface: Okay .Marketing: Maybe .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} 'Cause that's the uh the biggestexpense there , right .User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: {gap} got two of them {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah , and why why I've got it two , I don't know , I can't seem to select any more however.Industrial Designer: Okay . Well we can work around that um {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Right . No .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Cutthings out . But you think it should be one .Project Manager: It's meant to be one , yeah , I don't know why I put two in there ,Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: but um {disfmarker} Hold on till I find it , Ithink this shift button might be stuck again . No maybe the shift button's stuck in .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um okay , so that would take away three , which would giveus {disfmarker}Marketing: Should {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh that's fine .Industrial Designer: Yeah , so we're {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Project Manager: Eleven uh elevenEuros sixty .User Interface: Cool . Cool .Project Manager: Um {vocalsound}User Interface: So we could even add something .Project Manager: We cou Oh not quite , have the scroll-wheel , unfortunately .IndustrialDesigner: We should fire the accountants .Project Manager: What ?Industrial Designer: Fire the accountants . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: Ah yeah , we could add things .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Maybe if you click back in that bottom right cell , where you're starting from , and then use the arrow keys .Project Manager:Yeah .Industrial Designer: Does that work ?Project Manager: Yeah , I know , that just extends it as well .Industrial Designer: No mm {vocalsound} .Marketing: Uh you can do one thing {gap} .Project Manager: I don'tknow .Marketing: You just select one box outsi yeah , this box . Then move it with the help of this {disfmarker} Okay .Project Manager: It {disfmarker} One of the buttons is sticking , I don't know {gap} .Marketing:{vocalsound} Just uh just uh {disfmarker} Okay , just a minute . Okay . No input , like this . {vocalsound} Shift . No it's not .Project Manager: No , it's 'cause the uh the shift button's stuck , or something .Marketing:Yeah , it's not working .Industrial Designer: Is it the other shift button maybe ?Marketing: Should we ask MeliProject Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Should we ask our technical expert Melissa ?Project Manager:{vocalsound} No that's fine . Um we've worked out what it would be anyway .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Did you try both shift buttons ? It could be the other side .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Cancel . Piss off .Industrial Designer: That's too bad .Project Manager: Oh well , never mind . Um {vocalsound} . Right , so that's finances and I dunno what we {disfmarker} what couldwe reckon we could add ? UmUser Interface: Well maybe we could add something , but maybe if {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well I suppose that's our that's that's our design that we've got . So {disfmarker}UserInterface: What do you th We're trying to save money , so . Yeah , if we're happy with the design there's no point in spending money , if we don't have to .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: But if there is anythingyou think we've missed out there , then , you know , feel free to add it . Maybe {disfmarker} I mean obviously it would be bigger so there might be more space for the the slogan on the front ,Project Manager: Yeahyeah .User Interface: because it's not in an ideal place right now .Project Manager: Well that's that's uh {disfmarker} Okay , so project evaluation . We have under twelve {vocalsound} Euros fifty . Project process , howdo we think that went ? Are we happy ?Industrial Designer: Oh .User Interface: Mm .Industrial Designer: Yeah I think we have a a winning product .Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Okay . {vocalsound}Evaluation . Oh we've been writing this up for m months .User Interface: I think it went quite smoothly .Project Manager: Uh room for creativity , were we happy with that ?User Interface: W I think we were verycreative .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: No , I mea I think it means sort of individually .User Interface: Oh right , okay .Project Manager: Yes , no , maybe ?User Interface: Mm-hmm .ProjectManager: Okay . Groovy . So uh we're just gonna . Uh yeah , okay . Teamwork ? Leadership , sorry .Industrial Designer: Great leadership . {vocalsound}User Interface: Excellent leadership . {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Thank you very much . You're all get you're all getting a raise . Uh teamwork . I thought went well .Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah .UserInterface: Yeah , everyone got enough input , I think .Project Manager: Uh and well means , yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah , we {gap} {disfmarker}Project Manager: Thetechnical stuff was brilliant .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Let's buy more .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh Right . UmIndustrial Designer:{vocalsound} These pens are are neat though .Project Manager: I don't know what , new ideas found , means , to be honest .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah , these are new ideas , like glow-in-the-dark or somethinglike that . We discussed all the new ideas , but of course we couldn't reach any proper goals , we couldn't use these {gap} , but we h we are using these scroll buttons like this . These are new ideas we And new shapes, everythingProject Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: . At le {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm 'kay . Groovy .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: So just general thumbsup for all of us then .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Hmm .Project Manager: That kind of unfortunately is too quick .Marketing: Hmm .User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: Okay .User Interface: Wellum .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh {vocalsound} . I suppose yeah . Um .Industrial Designer: Uh so let's talk about our bonuses and the raises we're getting for this , right .{vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} That's it , um I think another couple of days holiday pay might be well in order for all of you .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}UserInterface: Mm .Industrial Designer: Right , right .Project Manager: Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Let's see if I can get this bloody thing to work .Industrial Designer: Uh maybe we should start cleaning up the clay.Project Manager: Whoops . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah , maybe .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: Does it go back in , does it ? Reusable .IndustrialDesigner: {gap}User Interface: {gap}Industrial Designer: Something we should get {gap} .Project Manager: I don't know what this is but it's really really annoying .Marketing: So {vocalsound} {disfmarker} Uh Brian ,have you have you finished ?Project Manager: Uh-huh .Marketing: Uh mine needs also this .Project Manager: Um I have , yes .Marketing: At last mine is also the presentation .Project Manager: Huh ? Oh right , okay ,you've got more , okay .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah , yeah .User Interface: Oh , you got a presentation ,Project Manager: Sorry uh .User Interface: sorry .Industrial Designer: Oh okProject Manager: It didn't botherto tell me that on thisMarketing: SIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: thing . Is it ? Okay .Marketing: Uh {vocalsound} is the project evaluated , that is mine .Project Manager:{vocalsound} Doesn't tell me . {vocalsound} Oh you're doing that . {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: We evaluated ourselves , we thought we were great . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}UserInterface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Uh .User Interface: Mm , love to eat that now .Industrial Designer: Anybody {vocalsound}User Interface: Kind of agreen banana now .Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: Clay covered banana .User Interface: It's {disfmarker} this as well , sorry , we forgot to mention it'll be made out of kind of a rubbery latex , new materialthat we've got .Project Manager: O okay , hold on .User Interface: {vocalsound} I've got .Industrial Designer: {gap} blue .User Interface: {gap}Project Manager: {vocalsound} I wonder w which cell do I want .{gap}Industrial Designer: It's fun to touch .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound} So . Yeah .Project Manager: Okay , I didn't realise you had that bit . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} So .UserInterface: Oh could you pass the tomato please .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Sorry . Thank you .Marketing: So now is the final evaluation , final evaluation of the uh uh of our product . How we aregoing to {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: means uh at what standard what standard {disfmarker} whether it meets our standards or not . How mu What rating we will give to theseproducts . So of course this is {disfmarker} will be a team work , w we together have to decide wha what rating we will give to this product and everything . So what methodology I will tell you on what basis we aregoing to discuss all this .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: We will give the rating to this product based on the user requirements , whether it meets the user requirements or not , this product . Then trends , whether itis as {gap} fashion trends or not ? Means {vocalsound} because we have already stated that people do prefer fashionable things nowadays .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: So this is also an important factor forour evaluation also . Then marketing strategy of the company . As we have already discussed that our company is quite {gap} in the market , not only in terms of providing quality products , not only in pro providinglatest technologies , but also in terms of providing environmental sUser Interface: Sorry {gap} . Sorry ,Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: carry on . {vocalsound}Marketing: So {vocalsound} but also in terms ofproviding environmental safe products , uh yeah like uh keeping uh keeping in mind all the safety issues . So {disfmarker} Now comes the criteria rating with seven point scale . I'm having this scale this scale ,ProjectManager: Okay .Marketing: so we have to do it on a board .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: {gap}Marketing: {gap} the user requirem I think .Project Manager: Alright , okay .User Interface: Okay .ProjectManager: The board working again , is it ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Do we have the uh the marker for the board ?Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {gap}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh .UserInterface: Um .Industrial Designer: There it is .Marketing: {vocalsound} Thank you .Project Manager: {vocalsound} {gap}Marketing: So .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} So these are the three"}
{"doc_id":"doc_31","qid":"","text":"Professor A: We 're going ? OK . Sh - Close your door on {disfmarker} door on the way out ?Grad B: OK . Thanks .Professor A: Thanks .Grad B: Oh .Professor A: Yeah . Probably wanna get this other door , too . OK . So. Um . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} What are we talking about today ?PhD E: Uh , well , first there are perhaps these uh Meeting Recorder digits that we tested .Professor A: Oh , yeah . That was kind of uh interesting.PhD E: So .Professor A: The {disfmarker} both the uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the SRI System and the othPhD E: Um .Professor A: And for one thing that {disfmarker} that sure shows the {vocalsound} differencebetween having a lot of uh training data {vocalsound} or not ,PhD E: Of data ? Yeah .Professor A: uh , the uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} The best kind of number we have on the English uh {disfmarker} on nearmicrophone only is {disfmarker} is uh three or four percent .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor A: And uh it 's significantly better than that , using fairly simple front - ends {vocalsound} on {disfmarker} {vocalsound} onthe uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} uh , with the SRI system .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor A: So I th I think that the uh {disfmarker} But that 's {disfmarker} that 's using uh a {disfmarker} a pretty huge amount ofdata , mostly not digits , of course , but {disfmarker} but then again {disfmarker} Well , yeah . In fact , mostly not digits for the actual training the H M Ms whereas uh in this case we 're just using digits for training theH MPhD E: Yeah . Right .Professor A: Did anybody mention about whether the {disfmarker} the SRI system is a {disfmarker} {vocalsound} is {disfmarker} is doing the digits um the wor as a word model or as uh a subs sub - phone states ?PhD E: I guess it 's {disfmarker} it 's uh allophone models ,Professor A: Yeah . Probably .PhD E: so , well {disfmarker}Professor A: Huh ?PhD E: Yeah . I think so , because it 's their very d huge ,their huge system .Professor A: Yeah .PhD E: And . But . So . There is one difference {disfmarker} Well , the SRI system {disfmarker} the result for the SRI system that are represented here are with adaptation . Sothere is {disfmarker} It 's their complete system and {disfmarker} including on - line uh unsupervised adaptation .Professor A: That 's true .PhD E: And if you don't use adaptation , the error rate is around fifty percentworse , I think , if I remember .Professor A: OK .PhD E: Yeah .Professor A: It 's tha it 's that much , huh ?PhD E: Nnn . It 's {disfmarker} Yeah . It 's quite significant .Professor A: Oh . OK .PhD E: Yeah .Professor A: Still.PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor A: But {disfmarker} but uh what {disfmarker} what I think I 'd be interested to do given that , is that we {disfmarker} we should uh {vocalsound} take {disfmarker} I guess thatsomebody 's gonna do this , right ? {disfmarker} is to take some of these tandem things and feed it into the SRI system , right ?PhD E: Yeah .Professor A: Yeah .PhD E: We can do something like that .Professor A: Yeah. Because {disfmarker}PhD E: Yeah . But {disfmarker} But I guess the main point is the data because uh {vocalsound} I am not sure . Our back - end is {disfmarker} is fairly simple but until now , well , the attemptsto improve it or {disfmarker} have fail Ah , well , I mean uh what Chuck tried to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to doProfessor A: Yeah , but he 's doing it with the same data , right ? I mean so to {disfmarker}{vocalsound} So there 's {disfmarker} there 's {disfmarker} there 's two things being affected .PhD E: Yeah . So it 's {disfmarker} Yeah .Professor A: I mean . One is that {disfmarker} that , you know , there 'ssomething simple that 's wrong with the back - end . We 've been playing a number of statesPhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor A: uh I {disfmarker} I don't know if he got to the point of playing with the uh number ofGaussians yetPhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor A: but {disfmarker} but uh , uh , you know . But , yeah , so far he hadn't gotten any big improvement ,PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor A: but that 's all with the same amount ofdata which is pretty small .PhD E: Yeah .Professor A: And um .PhD E: Mmm . So , yeah , we could retrain some of these tandem on {disfmarker} on huge {disfmarker}Professor A: Well , you could do that , but I 'msaying even with it not {disfmarker} with that part not retrained , just {disfmarker} just using {disfmarker} having the H M Ms {disfmarker} much better H MPhD E: Ah , yeah . Just {disfmarker} f for the HMM models.Professor A: Yeah .PhD E: Yeah . Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .Professor A: Um . {vocalsound} But just train those H M Ms using different features , the features coming from our Aurora stuff .PhD E: Yeah .Professor A: So.PhD E: Yeah . But {vocalsound} what would be interesting to see also is what {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} perhaps it 's not related , the amount of data but the um recording conditions . I don't know . Because{vocalsound} it 's probably not a problem of noise , because our features are supposed to be robust to noise .Professor A: Well , yeah .PhD E: It 's not a problem of channel , because there is um {vocalsound}{vocalsound} normalization with respect to the channel . So {disfmarker}Professor A: I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I 'm sorry . What {disfmarker} what is the problem that you 're trying to explain ?PhD E: The{disfmarker} the fact that {disfmarker} the result with the tandem and Aurora system are {vocalsound} uh so much worse .Professor A: That the {disfmarker} Oh . So much worse ? Oh .PhD E: Yeah .Professor A: I uhbut I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm almost certain that it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I mean , that it has to do with the um amount of training data .PhD E: It {disfmarker}Professor A: It {disfmarker} it 's{disfmarker} it 's orders of magnitude off .PhD E: Yeah but {disfmarker} Yeah . Yeah but we train only on digits and it 's {disfmarker} it 's a digit task , so . Well .Professor A: But {disfmarker} but having a huge{disfmarker} If {disfmarker} {vocalsound} if you look at what commercial places do , they use a huge amount of data .PhD E: It {disfmarker} Mm - hmm .Professor A: This is a modest amount of data .PhD E: Alright .Yeah .Professor A: So . {vocalsound} I mean , ordinarily you would say \" well , given that you have enough occurrences of the digits , you can just train with digits rather than with , you know \" {disfmarker}PhD E: Mm- hmm . Mm - hmm .Professor A: But the thing is , if you have a huge {disfmarker} in other words , do word models {disfmarker} But if you have a huge amount of data then you 're going to have many occurrences ofsimilar uh allophones .PhD E: Right . Mmm .Professor A: And that 's just a huge amount of training for it .PhD E: Yeah .Professor A: So it 's {vocalsound} um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I {disfmarker} I think it has tobe that , because , as you say , this is , you know , this is near - microphone ,PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor A: it 's really pretty clean data .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor A: Um . Now , some of it could be the fact that uh{disfmarker} let 's see , in the {disfmarker} in these multi - train things did we include noisy data in the training ?PhD E: Yeah .Professor A: I mean , that could be hurting us actually , for the clean case .PhD E: Yeah .Well , actually we see that the clean train for the Aurora proposals are {disfmarker} are better than the multi - train ,Professor A: It is if {disfmarker} Yeah .PhD E: yeah .Professor A: Yeah . Cuz this is clean data , andso that 's not too surprising .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor A: But um . Uh . So .PhD E: Well , o I guess what I meant is that well , let 's say if we {disfmarker} if we add enough data to train on the um on the MeetingRecorder digits , I guess we could have better results than this .Professor A: Uh - huh . Mm - hmm .PhD E: And . What I meant is that perhaps we can learn something uh from this , what 's {disfmarker} what 's wronguh what {disfmarker} what is different between TI - digits and these digits and {disfmarker}Professor A: What kind of numbers are we getting on TI - digits ?PhD E: It 's point eight percent , so .Professor A: Oh . I see.PhD E: Four - Fourier .Professor A: So in the actual TI - digits database we 're getting point eight percent ,PhD E: Yeah . Yeah .Professor A: and here we 're getting three or four {disfmarker} three , let 's see , three forthis ?PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor A: Yeah . Sure , but I mean , um point eight percent is something like double uh or triple what people have gotten who 've worked very hard at doing that .PhD E: Mm - hmm.Professor A: And {disfmarker} and also , as you point out , there 's adaptation in these numbers also . So if you , you know , put the ad adap take the adaptation off , then it {disfmarker} for the English - Near you getsomething like two percent .PhD E: Mmm .Professor A: And here you had , you know , something like three point four . And I could easily see that difference coming from this huge amount of data that it was trained on.PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor A: So it 's {disfmarker}PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor A: You know , I don't think there 's anything magical here .PhD E: Yeah .Professor A: It 's , you know , we used a simple HTK systemwith a modest amount of data . And this is a {disfmarker} a , you know , modern {vocalsound} uh system uh has {disfmarker} has a lot of nice points to it .PhD E: Yeah . Mm - hmm .Professor A: Um . So . I mean ,the HTK is an older HTK , even . So . Yeah it {disfmarker} it 's not that surprising .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor A: But to me it just {disfmarker} it just meant a practical {vocalsound} point that um if we want to{vocalsound} publish results on digits that {disfmarker} that people pay {vocalsound} attention to we probably should uh {disfmarker} Cuz we 've had the problem before that you get {disfmarker} show some{vocalsound} nice improvement on something that 's {disfmarker} that 's uh , uh {disfmarker} it seems like too large a number , and uh {vocalsound} uh people don't necessarily take it so seriously .PhD E: Mm -hmm .Professor A: Um . Yeah . Yeah . So the three point four percent for this uh is {disfmarker} is uh {disfmarker} So why is it {disfmarker} It 's an interesting question though , still . Why is {disfmarker} why is itthree point four percent for the d the digits recorded in this environment as opposed to {vocalsound} the uh point eight percent for {disfmarker} for {disfmarker} for the original TI - digits database ? Um .PhD E: Yeah .th that 's {disfmarker} th that 's my pointProfessor A: Given {disfmarker} given the same {disfmarker} Yeah . So ignore {disfmarker} ignoring the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the SRI system for a moment ,PhD E:I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I don't I {disfmarker} Mm - hmm .Professor A: just looking at {vocalsound} the TI - di the uh tandem system , if we 're getting point eight percent , which , yes , it 's high . It 's , youknow , it {disfmarker} it 's not awfully high ,PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor A: but it 's , you know {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's high . Um . {vocalsound} Why is it {vocalsound} uh four times as high , or more?PhD E: Yeah , I guess .Professor A: Right ? I mean , there 's {disfmarker} {vocalsound} even though it 's close - miked there 's still {disfmarker} there really is background noise .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor A: Um .And {vocalsound} uh I suspect when the TI - digits were recorded if somebody fumbled or said something wrong or something that they probably made them take it over .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor A: It was not{disfmarker} I mean there was no attempt to have it be realistic in any {disfmarker} in any sense at all .PhD E: Well . Yeah . And acoustically , it 's q it 's {disfmarker} I listened . It 's quite different . TI - digit is{disfmarker} it 's very , very clean and it 's like studio recordingProfessor A: Mm - hmm .PhD E: whereas these Meeting Recorder digits sometimes you have breath noise and Mmm .Professor A: Right . Yeah . So I thinkthey were {disfmarker}PhD E: It 's {nonvocalsound} not controlled at all , I mean .Professor A: Bless you .Grad B: Thanks .Professor A: I {disfmarker} Yeah . I think it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} So . Yes .PhDE: Mm - hmm . ButProfessor A: It 's {disfmarker} I think it 's {disfmarker} it 's the indication it 's harder .PhD E: Yeah .Professor A: Uh . {vocalsound} Yeah and again , you know , i that 's true either way . I mean sotake a look at the uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} um , the SRI results . I mean , they 're much much better , but still you 're getting something like one point three percent for uh things that are same data as in T{disfmarker} TI - digits the same {disfmarker} same text .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor A: Uh . And uh , I 'm sure the same {disfmarker} same system would {disfmarker} would get , you know , point {disfmarker}point three or point four or something {vocalsound} on the actual TI - digits . So this {disfmarker} I think , on both systems the {vocalsound} these digits are showing up as harder .PhD E: Mmm .Professor A: Um .PhDE: Mm - hmm .Professor A: Which I find sort of interesting cause I think this is closer to {disfmarker} uh I mean it 's still read . But I still think it 's much closer to {disfmarker} to what {disfmarker} what peopleactually face , {vocalsound} um when they 're {disfmarker} they 're dealing with people saying digits over the telephone . I mean . {vocalsound} I don't think uh {disfmarker} I mean , I 'm sure they wouldn't releasethe numbers , but I don't think that uh {vocalsound} the uh {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the companies that {disfmarker} that do telephone {vocalsound} speech get anything like point four percent on their{vocalsound} digits . I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm sure they get {disfmarker} Uh , I mean , for one thing people do phone up who don't have uh uh Middle America accents and it 's a we we it 's{disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's US .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor A: it has {disfmarker} has many people {vocalsound} {vocalsound} who sound in many different ways . So . Um . I mean . OK . That was that topic. What else we got ?PhD E: Um .Professor A: Did we end up giving up on {disfmarker} on , any Eurospeech submissions ,PhD E: But {disfmarker}Professor A: or {disfmarker} ? I know Thilo and Dan Ellis are{disfmarker} are submitting something , but uh .PhD E: Yeah . I {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I guess e the only thing with these {disfmarker} the Meeting Recorder and , well , {disfmarker} So , I think , yeah{disfmarker} I think we basically gave up .Professor A: Um . {vocalsound} Now , actually for the {disfmarker} for the Aur - uhPhD E: But {disfmarker}Professor A: we do have stuff for Aurora , right ? Because{disfmarker} because we have ano an extra month or something .PhD E: Yeah . Yeah . Yeah . So . Yeah , for sure we will do something for the special session .Professor A: Yeah . Well , that 's fine . So th so{disfmarker} so we have a couple {disfmarker} a couple little things on Meeting RecorderPhD E: Yeah . Mm - hmm .Professor A: and we have {disfmarker} {vocalsound} We don't {disfmarker} we don't have to flood itwith papers . We 're not trying to prove anything to anybody . so . That 's fine . Um . Anything else ?PhD E: Yeah . Well . So . Perhaps the point is that we 've been working on {vocalsound} is , yeah , we have put theum the good VAD in the system and {vocalsound} it really makes a huge difference . Um . So , yeah . I think , yeah , this is perhaps one of the reason why our system was not {disfmarker} {vocalsound} not the best ,because with the new VAD , it 's very {disfmarker} the results are similar to the France Telecom results and perhaps even better sometimes .Professor A: Hmm .Grad B: Huh .PhD E: Um . So there is this point . Uh .The problem is that it 's very big and {vocalsound} {vocalsound} we still have to think how to {disfmarker} where to put it and {disfmarker} {vocalsound} um ,Professor A: Mm - hmm .PhD E: because it {disfmarker}it {disfmarker} well , this VAD uh either some delay and we {disfmarker} if we put it on the server side , it doesn't work , because on the server side features you already have LDA applied {vocalsound} from the f fromthe terminal side and {vocalsound} so you accumulate the delay so the VAD should be before the LDA which means perhaps on the terminal side and then smaller {vocalsound} andProfessor A: So wha where did thisgood VAD come from ?PhD E: So . It 's um from OGI . So it 's the network trained {disfmarker} it 's the network with the huge amounts on hidden {disfmarker} of hidden units , and um nine input frames compared tothe VAD that was in the proposal which has a very small amount of hidden units and fewer inputs .Professor A: This is the one they had originally ?PhD E: Yeah .Professor A: Oh . Yeah , but they had to {pause} get ridof it because of the space , didn't they ?PhD E: Yeah . So . Yeah . But the abso assumption is that we will be able to make a VAD that 's small and that works fine . And . So we can {disfmarker}Professor A: Well . Sothat 's a problem . Yeah .PhD E: Yeah but {disfmarker} nnn .Professor A: But the other thing is uh to use a different VAD entirely . I mean , uh i if {disfmarker} if there 's a {vocalsound} if {disfmarker} if {disfmarker}I {disfmarker} I don't know what the thinking was amongst the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the {vocalsound} the ETSI folk but um if everybody agreed sure let 's use this VAD and take that out of there{disfmarker}PhD E: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm . They just want , apparently {disfmarker} they don't want to fix the VAD because they think there is some interaction between feature extraction and {disfmarker} andVAD or frame dropping But they still {vocalsound} want to {disfmarker} just to give some um {vocalsound} requirement for this VAD because it 's {disfmarker} it will not be part of {disfmarker} they don't want it tobe part of the standard .Professor A: OK .PhD E: So . So it must be at least uh somewhat fixed but not completely . So there just will be some requirements that are still not {disfmarker} uh not yet uh ready I think.Professor A: Determined . I see . But I was thinking that {disfmarker} that uh {vocalsound} s \" Sure , there may be some interaction ,PhD E: Nnn .Professor A: but I don't think we need to be stuck on using our or OGI's {pause} VAD . We could use somebody else 's if it 's smaller or {disfmarker}PhD E: Yeah .Professor A: You know , as long as it did the job .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor A: So that 's good .PhD E: Uh . So there is thisthing . There is um {disfmarker} Yeah . Uh I designed a new {disfmarker} a new filter because when I designed other filters with shorter delay from the LDA filters , {vocalsound} there was one filter with fif sixtymillisecond delay and the other with ten millisecondsProfessor A: Right .PhD E: and {vocalsound} uh Hynek suggested that both could have sixty - five sixty - s I think it 's sixty - five .Professor A: Yeah .PhD E: Yeah .Both should have sixty - five because {disfmarker}Professor A: You didn't gain anything , right ?PhD E: Yeah . And . So I did that and uh it 's running . So , {vocalsound} let 's see what will happen . Uh but the filter isof course closer to the reference filter .Professor A: Mm - hmm .PhD E: Mmm . Um . Yeah . I think {disfmarker}Professor A: So that means logically , in principle , it should be better . So probably it 'll be worse .PhD E:YeahProfessor A: Or in the basic perverse nature uh of reality . Yeah . OK .PhD E: Yeah . Sure .Grad C: Yeah .Professor A: OK .PhD E: Yeah , and then we 've started to work with this of um voiced - unvoiced stuff.Professor A: Mm - hmm .PhD E: And next week I think we will {vocalsound} perhaps try to have um a new system with uh uh MSG stream also see what {disfmarker} what happens . So , something that 's similar tothe proposal too , but with MSG stream .Professor A: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .PhD E: Mmm .Professor A: OK .PhD D: No , I w {vocalsound} I begin to play {vocalsound} with Matlab and to found some parameterrobust for voiced - unvoiced decision . But only to play . And we {disfmarker} {vocalsound} they {disfmarker} we found that maybe w is a classical parameter , the {vocalsound} sq the variance {vocalsound} betweenthe um FFT of the signal and the small spectrum of time {vocalsound} we {disfmarker} after the um mel filter bank .Professor A: Uh - huh .PhD D: And , well , is more or less robust . Is good for clean speech . Is quitegood {vocalsound} for noisy speech .Professor A: Huh ? Mm - hmm .PhD D: but um we must to have bigger statistic with TIMIT ,Professor A: Mm - hmm .PhD D: and is not ready yet to use on ,Professor A: Yeah .PhDD: well , I don't know .Professor A: Yeah .PhD E: Yeah . So , basically we wa want to look at something like the ex the ex excitation signal and {disfmarker}Professor A: Right .PhD D: Mm - hmm .PhD E: which are thevariance of it and {disfmarker}PhD D: I have here . I have here for one signal , for one frame .PhD E: Mmm .Professor A: Yeah . Uh - huh .PhD D: The {disfmarker} the mix of the two , noise and unnoise , and the"}
{"doc_id":"doc_32","qid":"","text":"User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Mm uh .Marketing: {vocalsound} {gap} We're the first .User Interface: Mm . We're the first ones . {vocalsound}Marketing:Marketing Expert , yes .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So you found your spots .Marketing: Yes .User Interface: {vocalsound} Move to the meeting room . {vocalsound}Marketing:Bling bling . {vocalsound} Yeah .User Interface: Okay .Marketing: Right . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Uh {vocalsound} where has my screen gone ?Industrial Designer: Hi .User Interface: Hello ,good day . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Oh yeah , we have to talk in English ,Marketing: Hmm .Industrial Designer: huh .User Interface: Yep .Marketing: Yeah . My screen is gone .ProjectManager: It's called black . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Oh .User Interface: Kick-off meeting , wow . It's uh looks uh nice .Industrial Designer: I'm afraid I'm a bit slow for this stuff uh .Project Manager:{vocalsound} Okay .User Interface: Hmm ?Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I'm afraid I'm a bit too slow . {vocalsound} I don't know how much preparation you guys did ,User Interface: Yeah .IndustrialDesigner: but not a lot .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: No , it's {disfmarker} it was uh not enough .Project Manager: You see this beautiful presentation .Marketing: Yeah . Very nice .Project Manager: Okay let's getstarted .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Uh I sort of prepared this .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh opening acquaintance , tool training , uh how to use the things here . Uh project plan discussion ,and yeah then the rest of the meeting .Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Um we're supposed to develop a new remote control , that's both original , trendy and user-friendly . So,Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: hope you have good ideas . I don't . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} I did my best .Project Manager: Um we're work we're working uh from top tobottom . Uh functional design ,Industrial Designer: Not yet .Project Manager: then we do some in individual work , then we have a meeting to discuss the results , etcetera etcetera . And at the end of the day we shouldhave a prototype drawn up . Uh we have available the smart board and the whiteboard . Um uh we should take some practice . I have some instructions now to do that .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Uh well youknow how to {disfmarker} the documents work . So {disfmarker} Uh this for toolbar . You see it next . Um we have a pen . And we can use this pen to perform . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Yes .Industrial Designer: Operations .Project Manager: So {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: It doesn't always work . Yes .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager:Okay so you can draw .Marketing: Draw . Alright .Project Manager: Okay and in the format menu you can select colour and line width , etcetera etcetera . Okay ?Marketing: 'Kay .Project Manager: Uh {disfmarker} Okay. Each of you can uh take some practice and you should draw an animal . Uh you should explain {disfmarker} Uh with different colours and with different pen widths .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Project Manager: And you should explain why you draw that particular animal .User Interface: {vocalsound} Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound} Don't take up too much space . {vocalsound}Project Manager:So , Julian .User Interface: Um yeah .Industrial Designer: Different pen widths , how do you do that ?User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh with the format menu .Industrial Designer: Oh okay .ProjectManager: And use different colours etcetera .User Interface: {vocalsound} It's a giraffe . Yeah .Project Manager: And {vocalsound} what's that supposed to be ? {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Are you serious?Marketing: {vocalsound} Should it be one {disfmarker}Project Manager: Oh yeah . {vocalsound} Oh yeahUser Interface: {vocalsound} Okay .Project Manager: four legs . Uh-huh . {vocalsound}Marketing: Giraffe'syellow . {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh it needs some uh some yellow uh {disfmarker} Oh format .Marketing: Can you use one blank sheet per drawing ? OrProject Manager: Yeah .Marketing: so y you must save it atthe endProject Manager: YeahMarketing: and then {disfmarker}Project Manager: you can press the next button , which is uh {disfmarker} yeah . I'll show you .User Interface: That's some spots .Industrial Designer: Iin the file option menu .Project Manager: Yeah . In file menu .Marketing: Okay ,User Interface: No .Marketing: then m make a new one .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: How much time do we have todraw anyway ? {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: 'Cause I can take forever on this .Project Manager: {gap}User Interface: Okay . Do I have to explainuh why I chose this uh this animal ?Project Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound}User Interface: I think it's a it's a great animal .Project Manager: What is it ? {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} It's a it's a giraffe .Project Manager: A giraffe okay . Yeah I see a long neckUser Interface: Yeah , that's a {disfmarker}Project Manager: but {disfmarker}{vocalsound}Marketing: It's more like a dinosaur . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Um {disfmarker} Okay I'll will give it an uh an eye .Project Manager: Okay . That's nice of you .Marketing: {vocalsound}Uh .User Interface: Hey . Come on .Marketing: Some leaf to eat . {vocalsound}User Interface: {gap} {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay . Yeah pretty good . Uh could you press the next uh {disfmarker}UserInterface: The next ? Yes .Project Manager: Okay . Then uh {disfmarker} {gap} .User Interface: Here you go . {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah . Thanks .User Interface: Hmm .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Is this part of our a acquai or introduction to each other ?Project Manager: Yeah sorry , introduction and get acquaintedMarketing: {vocalsound} Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: and{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Alright .Project Manager: That's the idea , so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Uh . Your line broke .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah . Alright .User Interface: {vocalsound}ProjectManager: Yeah it's a bit slow ,Marketing: It's not that fast .Project Manager: so {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I see . It misses the spot .Project Manager:{gap} pressure .Industrial Designer: I'm guessing a turtle . No . {vocalsound} I'm kidding .Marketing: {vocalsound} I say good guess . Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Why a turtle ?Industrial Designer: Because ofits shell .Marketing: Because it's slow . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} It's slow .User Interface: 'Cause it's soProject Manager: You were slow tooUser Interface: 'cause it's green . {vocalsound}ProjectManager: so {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah I was a bit slow too .Industrial Designer: Dude you're a good drawer .Marketing: So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Uh some other line uh width uh {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: Do you have a turtle pet ?Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} No . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Uh okay .Marketing: I dunno . {vocalsound} Does ithave legs ? {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah yeah yeah .Project Manager: Yeah sure .Marketing: Yeah ?Project Manager: Yeah not exactly legs but {disfmarker} More like finsMarketing: {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: Stumpy stuff .Project Manager: or {disfmarker}Marketing: It's more like a tank . Yeah that's finsIndustrial Designer: They kind of l look like mole legs . With sharp nails on .Marketing: but I don't know where. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Some spots . Ah some eye .Project Manager: {vocalsound} YeahMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: it's l looks very friendly . {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeahthat's a fr {vocalsound} friendly turtle I guess .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah well I think it's uh fair enough .Project Manager: Yeah okay .Industrial Designer: A little tail maybe .Project Manager:{vocalsound} {gap} {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Right . {vocalsound} I don't know what the position is . {vocalsound} Does it have ears ?IndustrialDesigner: Uh no .Project Manager: No .User Interface: No .Marketing: No . Oh okay .Industrial Designer: The little holes maybe .Marketing: Can you erase earsProject Manager: Yeah yeah yeah .User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: or {disfmarker}Project Manager: There's a a gum ,Marketing: Yeah ? Alright .Project Manager: gum to {gap} .Marketing: Eraser .Industrial Designer: And why did you choose this animal?Marketing: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: He said it was slow .Marketing: I dunno . I it just came into my mind . So there's no particular reasonIndustrial Designer: Alright .Marketing: I {gap} pen .Project Manager:{vocalsound} I like it . {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah . Well I'm {disfmarker} guess I'm done .Project Manager: Okay . {gap}Marketing: That's my turtle .Project Manager: Your turn Niels .Industrial Designer: Alright.Marketing: How to select the next or {disfmarker}Project Manager: The nextMarketing: here .Project Manager: yeah .Industrial Designer: {gap} Colours were under formatMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .ProjectManager: Makes new paper .Marketing: Here you go .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: right ? Let's see .Project Manager: Orange .Industrial Designer: How am I gonna do this ? Um {disfmarker} Mm uh.User Interface: A rabbit I think .Project Manager: Kangaroo .User Interface: Kangaroo . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Not quite actually .User Interface: Fox .Marketing: A fox yeah .Project Manager:Dog .Marketing: Firefox .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: No .Project Manager: Cat .Industrial Designer: Aye . {vocalsound} It's a cat .Project Manager: It's a cat .User Interface: Mm .IndustrialDesigner: Not quite yet through .Marketing: A cat who had an accident or {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Project Manager: Why a cat ?Industrial Designer: Uh yeah I dunno . They're my favourite pets .Project Manager: Youhave some uh ?Industrial Designer: Uh I have colour already . Yeah I'm not so good at drawing with this kind ofProject Manager: {vocalsound} The pen ,Industrial Designer: st Oh shit . Um {disfmarker}ProjectManager: yeah .Industrial Designer: Excuse my language .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Sure . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I don't know how to draw its face . But you getthe idea .Project Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound} Alright .Industrial Designer: It's a cat . It's my favourite uh pet animal , 'cause they're cute , they're independent and cuddly , I dunno . {vocalsound}Project Manager:Okay .Industrial Designer: That's it .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Or do I need to use more colours and {disfmarker}Project Manager: {gap} I think it's okay . You get ideaIndustrial Designer: Alright.Project Manager: right ?Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay umIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: we have a financial aspect to this project . {vocalsound} Um we can sell them at twentyfive Euros . Uh the aim is to reach {disfmarker} uh uh to sell as much as fifty million Euros . Uh that's quite a big amount of money . And the production cost should be the half of the selling price . OkayIndustrialDesigner: So we have to sProject Manager: now it's time for some discussion . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {gap}User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: Uh {disfmarker}User Interface: What uh what uh do you wantto discuss ? {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: We should get started .User Interface: Yep .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Uh I'm takingnotes . UmMarketing: Okay . Great .Project Manager: we each have a specific task , as I saw in my mail . I didn't know if you received the same mail .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager:Yeah ?Industrial Designer: I guess so . Yeah .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay so the um {vocalsound} uh {gap} this industrati Industrial Designer should produce a working design . Am I correct ?IndustrialDesigner: True .Project Manager: Okay . Uh the User Interface Designer should specify the technical functions . Right ? Yeah ?User Interface: Yep .Project Manager: {vocalsound} And the Marketing uh Expert shouldcome up with user requirements .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Uh did any of you already do some work on this part or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well I started making an overview for myself, um what I had to do , 'cause we have three design steps and in every step I have a s specific task to perform or whatever .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: So I had to uh , {vocalsound} Idunno , make an overview for myself about what I have to do ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: and kind of let it work in to get ideas about well how I have to fill it .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . And doyou have any ideas about the product uh so far ?Industrial Designer: Well I started I started with the first phase , I think was the functional .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: And uh let's see I had tofocus on the working design , which you said .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: How does the apparatus work ? And well I basically had two points . Uh {vocalsound} according to the coffee uh machineexample , I have batteries to supply energy ,Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: and we ye use button presses to activate or deactivate certain functions on the T_V_ .ProjectManager: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound} Okay .Industrial Designer: And that's basically all I have so far .Project Manager: Yeah I got another point . It uses infrared light to communicate the signal to the T_V_ apparatus orstereo .User Interface: Yeah . Wireless uh {disfmarker} huh .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Alright .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: So that's very common .User Interface: Uh it's uhsome buttons for for the on off function . You d you already told that . And for the changing up to the {disfmarker} to all the channels and changing the volume . That are the the basic options for a remote control.Industrial Designer: Yeah . Yeah I kept it global 'cause {vocalsound} {disfmarker} that it activates or deactivates specific functions ,User Interface: Okay , yeah .Industrial Designer: 'cause I wasn't thinking yet aboutthat . I mean , you wanna ch ch flip the channelUser Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: but you might wanna use teletext also .User Interface: Yep .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: I dunno what the word is inEnglish . Uh {gap} {disfmarker}Project Manager: Same I believe {gap} .Marketing: Yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh and what did the Marketing Expert do ?Marketing: Uh well from a marketing uh{vocalsound} perspective , um well the function des design phase uh consists out of the user requirements .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Um what needs and desires are to be fulfilled ? So there are a fewmeans to reach that um by by doing research {vocalsound} uh to see what existing products are there out in the market .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: I mean , what functions do they have .Project Manager:Mm .Marketing: Um especially what are their shortcomings ? Are there any new functions uh which can be added to our product ?Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .Marketing: Um therefore we have to to do someinternet search . For example for um well what kind of applications do current remote controls support , and what are f featur features of uh current and future televisions ?Project Manager: Yep . Yes .Marketing: So wecan see uh what needs to be supported . Um {vocalsound} and we can interview current users and future users . What w what would they like to see uh on a new remote control ? Um especially for future users ,ProjectManager: Okay . Okay .Marketing: uh I'm thinking of early adopters , because they they use new technology first ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: and they play with a lot of tools and stuff so maybe they havesome good ideas to uh to add .Project Manager: Okay . And you can get that information ?Marketing: I think I can get that information , yeah .Project Manager: Okay . That would be very handy .Marketing: So{disfmarker} yeah .Project Manager: Um but have you any idea so far as what uh the user requirements are ?Marketing: No n not specifically .Project Manager: No ?Marketing: More to how to get themProject Manager:No okay .User Interface: {vocalsound} I got some uh requirementsMarketing: and {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah ?User Interface: it has uh {gap} it has to be user-friendly .Marketing: Yeah ?Project Manager:{vocalsound} Of course .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Obviously .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Uh really easy to use buttons , not not uh very small buttons , but not the the also the bigbig buttons , but just normal buttons . It has to be a small unit . It has to be uh {disfmarker} yeah , you can take it with you uh everywhere in in your house . So it has n has not to be l yeah , gigantic uh machine.Project Manager: Big , mm-hmm .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: Uh and a and a good uh zapping range . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh what do you mean by that ?User Interface: Uh the distanceuh from your television to your uh remote control has to be , uh yeah um yeah , quite a big distance .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: It has to be capable for zapping uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah . From the otherend of the room or something ?User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay um {disfmarker} Well I don't think I have anything more to add at the moment . Um I think the best is to go to work.Industrial Designer: Whoa . Is that youProject Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: or {disfmarker} alright .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Any more points to discuss ?Project Manager: Yeah . I think we can goahead with what we have . I will summarise the things we discussed and put it in the project folder . Uh the use of the Industrial Designer can work on the working design , etcetera etcetera . And it seems you get moreinformation by email . So {vocalsound}Marketing: Alright .Industrial Designer: Alright .Project Manager: that was it for me .User Interface: Okay .Marketing: 'Kay . Thanks .Project Manager: Uh {disfmarker}UserInterface: Are you going to put the the notes on the {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah , in the project folder . Yeah .Marketing: Yeah . The pro okay .User Interface: Okay . {vocalsound}Project Manager: I'm writingvery fast . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Alright .User Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah . Okay .Project Manager: Hope it's readable .User Interface: Yep .Marketing: Uh .Project Manager: Okay{vocalsound} um anything more you want to add to the discussion ?Marketing: I guess so .Industrial Designer: Well no I'm just a bit wondering what we're gonna do the next uh session ?User Interface: Yeah . Do weonly have to to do uh phase one , the functional design uh ?Project Manager: Yeah . Because then we have a {disfmarker}User Interface: After that we are going to the conceptual uh {disfmarker}Project Manager:Yeah . {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Y you do some individual work ,Marketing: We're just working the three phases .Project Manager: we have meeting , individual work , meeting . And at the end ofthe day we have a final meeting . And then I have to prepare {disfmarker} uh I have to defend our design ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: so make it good . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah okay .We'll do our best .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: I depend on you .User Interface: Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound} Better make it {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I am gonna work on the conceptualdesign already 'cause yeah it's fairly important to know what kind of components we want to put in .Project Manager: Yeah ? If you can mix it it's okay . Mm-hmm . Yeah .Industrial Designer: Do we {disfmarker} Imean , is it gonna be a multimedia control centre ? Do we want to be able to use the video recorder with it ? {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah . {vocalsound} That is my question alsoProject Manager: Yeah .Marketing:"}
{"doc_id":"doc_33","qid":"","text":"Lynne Neagle AM: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee. We've received no apologies, although Dawn Bowden is running late. I'll take this opportunity to welcomeDawn formally to the committee but also to place on record our thanks to John Griffiths for his service to the committee. Are there any declarations of interest, please? No. Okay. Item 2, then, this morning is a scrutinysession with a focus on higher and further education. I'm very pleased to welcome Kirsty Williams, Cabinet Secretary for Education, Eluned Morgan, Minister for Welsh Language and Lifelong Learning, and Huw Morris,who is the group director of skills, higher education and lifelong learning. Thank you all for your attendance this morning. If you're okay with it, we'll go straight into questions. The first questions are from SuzyDavies.Suzy Davies AM: Thank you, Chair. If we can just start with teacher training and teacher training for secondary school teachers in particular, obviously there's been what looks like a trend in recent years in fillingthe places for secondary school training. Obviously, this is at Welsh teacher training centres. Do you think there's still a problem recruiting teachers into the 300 priority places, or is there a trend where things aregetting better?Kirsty Williams AM: Thank you, Suzy. I think, for this year's intake, although we're in touch with our providers, we're not in a position to be able to give figures for this year's intake for a couple of months.But what we have seen over recent years is that we are only recruiting to about 65 per cent of those targets. So, there is still a job of work to do to understand and to respond to those needs. So, what we're doing isfirst of all making sure that our ITE provision is world class, so that, actually, Welsh centres are the place to go to train to be a teacher. You'll be aware that we've recently been through an accreditation process for newITE provision that will start in the next academic year. We have looked at financial incentives. It's not the whole answer, I think, to these issues, but it's part of a mixture of things that we need to do. You'll be awarethat, for priority subjects, with graduates with the very highest levels of qualifications, those financial incentives are now £20,000 a year. We're also embarking on our first ever national ITE recruitment marketingexercise. We have initially done some work in the last year specifically targeting Welsh students in studying for priority subject degrees, e-mailing them, sending them materials to ask them to consider (1) becoming ateacher, and (2) crucially coming to do that training here in Wales. We are now part of a full national programme of ITE recruitment, giving people that idea that you can serve your nation and your community bytraining to be a teacher. So, there's a whole package of things we need to do. In January of this year I set up an advisory board on the recruitment and retention of teaching staff, and we are awaiting some reports fromthat advisory group on what they feel that we should do next.Suzy Davies AM: Thank you for that answer. I can see there's a lot of activity, but what exactly is it responding to? Presumably, some research has beendone about why people don't want to become teachers so that the answers you come up with are appropriate answers. I can't believe it's just about ITE, although this is very valuable, what you're talking about. Is theresomething that's running through our younger learners at the moment that makes them think that teaching isn't a profession they want to go into? Is that something that's happening just in Wales or is it happeningelsewhere as well?Kirsty Williams AM: No. I think what you will find is that this isn't a uniquely Welsh issue. I think they are suffering quite acute problems across the border, which proves to me that money isn'tnecessarily the entire answer, because, despite higher financial incentives to join ITE courses, they're not able to do that in England either. So, that proves to me—what the research does show—that it's not moneyalone that will get people onto these courses. Interestingly, I don't even think it's a UK problem. Recently, as you'll be aware via my written statement, I attended the Atlantic Rim Collaboratory, which is asystem-to-system conference. If you talk to education systems in different parts of the world, the one common factor that we are all grappling with is teacher recruitment and retention. In the USA, they have seen a 40per cent drop in the number of students training to be teachers. So, in the Californian system, significant teacher shortages, and in Oregon, Washington. I met with New York state—significant teacher recruitment andretention problems in New York state, and in Finland, Australia. So, this is a common issue across the globe, really. That's why we set up the advisory group under the chairmanship of Professor John Gardner—it's tounderstand what the issues are exactly that are preventing people or putting people off. One of the things that we have got strong performance in, and I think this is perhaps something that we're trying to follow up on,are employment-based routes into qualified teacher status—so, those are people who are training on the job. Those remain strong. There's high demand for those places, so much so that we've increased those places to90 last year and 90 again this year, which says to me that—there's definitely a place for the traditional, 'Take a year off, do a postgraduate certificate in education in a university for a year'—actually, that type of coursesuits some students but it might be preventing other people from pursuing a qualification in teaching, which is why, of course, from next year, we will have our unique part-time PGCE route into qualification. So, thatallows people to perhaps combine some of their employment opportunities, so they can earn while they learn, or maybe they've got caring responsibilities that prevent them from going to do a full-time course. I thinkthat will give us an alternative route that people can take to gain qualified teacher status and work in our schools. So, there's no one thing, I think, that we can do that will solve this issue. But it is an international issue,I agree with that.Suzy Davies AM: Okay. Well, that's what I was after finding out, and, actually, what you've just said about the part-time PGCE is pretty interesting as well, because if you can bring your outside worldexperience into teaching, that's got to help, hasn't it?Kirsty Williams AM: Can I just agree with you? I think that is really, really important—that we have a diversity in our teaching workforce. I think the differentdynamic that brings to a school and the experience that brings to children is really, really valuable. I was up in the Deeside Sixth just last week, talking to the A-level chemistry teacher. She had been a teacher for awhile, she'd gone into industry, worked in industry, and now had come back into teaching. She said that she felt that that made her a better educator and she could talk with knowledge and experience about theopportunities outside of teaching that the students in front of her could pursue. I'm very keen to increase the diversity in our teaching workforce and I'm very keen in looking at career changers, who perhaps havedifferent life experience and work experience, coming into our teaching profession.Suzy Davies AM: Thank you for that. Part of that diversity, of course—it would be great if you had more people interested in qualifyingto teach through the medium of Welsh. Great aspirations; the trend's going the other way. No-one can solve this in 280 characters, I get that, but can you give us some indication about why you think this is proving stillsuch an unattractive option when it's clear that there's a policy for this country to improve the number of Welsh speakers? You'd have thought there'd be a pretty good carrot for this.Kirsty Williams AM: Sure. Again,data for recruitment for the 2018-19 cohort is not yet available and we are, as I said, keeping in touch with our ITE centres to keep a close eye on them. I think an important thing to recognise is that there is adifference between the number of people who are on courses where there is a specific designation that enables them to teach through the medium of Welsh and those people who have linguistic ability and Welsh abilitybut don't necessarily do a course that allows them. So, there is a difference. We do think that, for the 2016-17 cohort, there were an additional 130 qualifiers that, actually, were fluent in Welsh and who could havegone on to teach in Welsh-medium schools, didn't necessarily do a course that gave them that designation. But, clearly, we've got three academic years now to get to the targets that we've set ourselves. The evaluationof Welsh-medium provision in ITE reported at the end of last month, and the Minister and officials are busy working now to implement the recommendations of the report that was published, I think, on 28 September,to be able to move this agenda forward. Again, we've got new incentives, this year, both for people starting their course and then for teachers who complete their QTS after a year. So, we've added in new financialincentives this year to try and address some of those issues. But, clearly, these are ambitious targets and we will need to have a step change over the next three years if we're to meet them.Suzy Davies AM: Thank youfor that, Cabinet Secretary. Thank you for that answer. We're now talking about cohorts of students coming into PGCE and teaching degrees. If they're from Wales, they will have had Welsh as part of their educationfrom day one, and we'll accept there are varying qualities in different parts of Wales, different attitudes towards it as well. But there isn't a single a person now who's been through Welsh education who can say theyhave no Welsh at all, unless they've moved into the system from, say, England very, very recently. What is being done within the teaching qualifications, including the degrees, to ensure that, at least in Welshuniversities, those nascent Welsh language skills are at least kept alive, even though we're not talking necessarily about being at a level where people can teach through the medium? It's the age-old question: once theschool gate closes, is that the end of their Welsh use? So, is there something—it won't be Donaldson, but in the teacher training qualifications—that is keeping this going and, hopefully, increasing the usability of theWelsh skills they have?Kirsty Williams AM: Well, in terms of how we can encourage children who have got Welsh skills as a result of their education up to 16, how they can continue to use those skills and, potentially,use them in the workplace, I'm sure Eluned will want to talk about some of the work, for instance, in other, non-teaching sectors. But, with regard to ITE, you'll be aware that, in the evaluation report, as I said, that waspublished, the report comes forward with two options in how we could develop an intervention programme to support Welsh language skills amongst all primary and secondary ITE entrants. So, what we'll be doing nowas a result of that report is that we'll be working very closely with our ITE centres to develop and agree upon minimum provision that constitutes those skill levels within ITE provision for all teachers.Suzy Davies AM:Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Llyr.Llyr Gruffydd AM: You have your targets for 2021, in terms of numbers of teachers coming through the system, which is positive, although, clearly, the report or the review itself saidthat, actually, we need to double the numbers, really. But it's not just the trends that are going down; it's a cataclysmic drop, really. We've lost 24 per cent in the number of people over the last four or five years whoare going into teacher training to study subjects that they could teach through the medium of Welsh. So, it's a huge turnaround that we're looking for, and I'm not getting the feeling that the level of ambition and theanswers that you're giving here this morning reflect the level of action that's needed, really.Kirsty Williams AM: Well, first of all, as I tried to illustrate to Suzy, the figures on their own tell one story, but there areadditional people in the system with an ability to speak Welsh and to be able to use—Llyr Gruffydd AM: I think it's 40 per cent of those who are currently in the system who don't—Kirsty Williams AM: —the language andskills. And if we look at qualifiers of ITE courses in Wales by degree type, actually, we see a different trend—we see numbers going up. So, there are statistics and there are statistics. Depending on which ones you lookat, it's quite a complex picture. And that's why we had the evaluation report. We understand and we know and acknowledge that there is more work to be done. That's why we have got the evaluation of provision inITE and that's why we'll be taking that ambition forward. We know what we need to do. As I said, we're not sitting back and hoping that something miraculous will change things. We are pulling levers and putting inplace plans to improve that situation.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Thank you for that. Clearly, there are statistics and there are statistics, so could you just explain to us which statistics you've used for your targets for growth overthe next three years?Kirsty Williams AM: Well, that comes as a result of the work done for the 2050—Llyr Gruffydd AM: Upon which baseline are you basing the increases that you're projecting?Kirsty Williams AM: We'reusing the baseline of 2012-13. There has been a decline since then.Llyr Gruffydd AM: That's the one I was using when I said '24 per cent reduction'.Kirsty Williams AM: There has been a decline in those numbers. That'swhy, as I said, we're doing the work that we need to do to reverse that decline. In using those numbers, we also know that there are additional people in the system who are not captured in those figures and who dohave the linguistic ability to use their language positively in school settings. So, what I'm saying is that that doesn't tell us the whole story, but I will be the first to admit that there is a significant job of work with ourITE providers to ensure that we will have the skilled professionals that we need to deliver on our ambitions, and I'm not hiding from that.Eluned Morgan AM: Also, I just think it's worth saying that a lot of this is aboutbuilding the confidence of those people who actually can speak Welsh, who are not teaching through the medium of Welsh, and to give them that support. First of all, we need to identify who these people are, so thereis a job of work being undertaken now in terms of registration in particular—when people register, let's just make sure that we collect that kind of data.Kirsty Williams AM: We don't even do that consistently at themoment. One of the recommendations of the report is that there is no consistent approach to understanding this baseline data and there's no consistent competency test that people start at the beginning of theircourse, so we need a national approach rather than leaving it to individual institutions.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Have we missed any tricks, potentially, in terms of the reforms to accrediting ITE, for example, in terms of,maybe, strengthening aspects around the Welsh language and provision in that respect?Kirsty Williams AM: No, I don't believe so. The accreditation process, which is independent of the Government—the accreditationprocess demands of our ITE providers that their provision will be able to meet the goals of our curriculum. Our curriculum is very clear about the equality of the language and the ability of our children, through all stagesof their education journey, to be able to be bilingual children.Llyr Gruffydd AM: So, that requirement, as far you're concerned, is there.Kirsty Williams AM: Yes.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Yes, okay. Diolch—thank you.LynneNeagle AM: Before I turn to Hefin, can I just clarify—? In answer to Suzy Davies, you said that 65 per cent of the places in Welsh training centres had been filled. Is that 65 per cent of the priority places?Kirsty WilliamsAM: Priority places.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you very much.Kirsty Williams AM: Sixty-five per cent of the priority courses are being met.Lynne Neagle AM: Lovely, thank you for clarifying that. Hefin.Hefin DavidAM: The decision by the Education Workforce Council not to accredit the University of South Wales with the ability to deliver teacher training—what are your views and concerns about that?Kirsty Williams AM: Theprocess is independent of Government, and it would not be appropriate for me to comment on that, especially as I understand that there is an appeals process that may be being undertaken. What I would say is thatfrom the very outset of our ITE reforms we have made it very clear that I expect very high standards in our ITE system, but the process is independent of this Government. I have confidence in the people who havebeen appointed by the EWC to undertake that process, but it is independent of me, and it's not appropriate for me to comment on that further.Hefin David AM: I fully understand that and the need for distance for theEWC, but there'll be an impact on students and staff. Students, first of all: are you concerned that the reduction in providers might have an impact on students, and those students going through the second year atUSW? Would you have concerns about that issue?Kirsty Williams AM: In terms of the overall numbers, we will be looking to commission from those institutions that have been accredited the number of training placesthat our planning tool says that we need. So, in terms of an overall number of places, we will commission from those accredited units. Clearly, there will be a responsibility upon the University of South Wales to ensurethat those students already in the system are able to complete their studies and their course, with the appropriate level of support and tuition to enable them to achieve their career aspirations and to graduate from thatprogramme.Hefin David AM: And what about the uncertainty for staff, or would you say that's an issue for the university itself?Kirsty Williams AM: These are autonomous bodies. They have to act accordingly, incompliance with any employment law or any statutory responsibilities that they would have as an employer. That's not a matter for me; that is a matter for the institution that is an autonomous body.Hefin David AM:But I would be surprised if you weren't keeping an eye on this, given that it has been a key provider. Are you aware of when the appeal decision will be known?Kirsty Williams AM: My understanding is that the appealsprocess is ongoing, and next month, perhaps. But as I said, this is a process that is independent of Government—Hefin David AM: But it will have an impact for what you do.Kirsty Williams AM: It will potentially changethe nature of the people from whom we commission places, but as I said, I do not have any concerns that we will not be in a position to commission the appropriate number of training places that we will need as aresult of our planning.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. Suzy on this—mindful of what the Minister said about it being an independent decision.Suzy Davies AM: It's not directly about USW; it's about the geographicspread of provision. I wonder if you could just give us a snapshot of what that looks like, and whether you think—certainly for PGCE or postgrad courses, anyway—that if they're not accessible geographically and we'vegot students who already have three years' worth of debt, they're not going to be looking to, necessarily, live away from home for a fourth year, and may want to study nearer home. Has there been any research doneon the access to these postgrad courses, about where people are coming from and whether that's had an impact on the fact that some of these places haven't been filled?Kirsty Williams AM: Currently, with our currentproviders, there is a significant geographical spread. There are centres here in the south-east, there are centres in the south-west, in mid Wales, and in north Wales. Obviously, accessibility is an issue for us. We dothink that, for some students, accessibility is an issue, and of course that's why we are responding with our part-time PGCE route, which actually will be location neutral, because you will be able to study that as adistance learner, and so you will be able to remain in your community and undertake that course. So, that's part of the attractiveness, I believe, of offering that to people. So, if geographical disadvantage is stoppingsomebody from pursuing a career aspiration to qualify as a teacher, our new part-time PGCE, as I said, will allow them to do that.Suzy Davies AM: Okay. Thanks, Chair.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. We're goingto move on now to talk about reform and reconfiguration of the post-16 education sector. Janet Finch-Saunders.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you. Good morning. There are some encouraging provisional signsregarding the demand for part-time undergraduate study for the first year of Diamond, but the £12.5 million reduction Higher Education Funding Council for Wales is having to make this academic year has potentially"}
{"doc_id":"doc_34","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: {vocalsound} Good to see you all again . Let's see if that comes up . This is our functional design meeting . Um . Just a sec while my PowerPoint comes up . Et voila . Okay . Mm um we put the fashionin electronics . Let's start . Okay , our agenda today um {disfmarker} just check the time , it's twelve thirteen . Um . I'm gonna do an opening , talk about um {disfmarker} did you all get the minutes ? I e-mailed themto you . I'm also putting 'em {disfmarker} them in the shared folder .User Interface: Yep .Project Manager: So um then I {disfmarker} we'll talk about our general objectivesIndustrial Designer: Right .Project Manager:and have your three presentations . Um I'll talk about the new project requirements I've just received , and then we have to make a decision on our remote control functions . Finally we'll just close . We're starting thismeeting at approximately twelve thirteen and we have forty minutes . So {disfmarker} First of all the functional design objectives . Uh we need to keep in mind the user requirement specification , what needs anddesires are to be fulfilled , the {gap} functions design , what effects the apparatus should have , and the working design , how the apparatus actually works to fulfil its function . Okay , three presentations , um you cango in any order you choose um .Marketing: {gap} Mm shall we go in the order that you just did it ?Project Manager: Sure , please do .Marketing: I dunno . How do I hook my screen up ?Industrial Designer: I think , youmight have to disconnect Rose .Project Manager: Yes I do . Yeah .User Interface: Well there's a wee a wee plug just just that one thereMarketing: Where does it go ? Mm-hmm . Hmm , I'm not supposed to move this,User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: but {disfmarker}User Interface: Ah that's it , yep .Marketing: {gap}User Interface: And then you have to press function F_ eightProject Manager: Function , F_ eight , yeah.User Interface: I think it is on your laptop .Project Manager: The blue one , F_N_ .Marketing: Where's function ? No signal .Project Manager: Is it plugged in all the way and you screwed it in and {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: Yeah .Marketing: Ah , wait , 's screw in .Industrial Designer: I I think you just have to push it in really hard .Marketing: Push the screw .User Interface: That's it .Industrial Designer: Oh , got it .ProjectManager: Mm 'kay .Marketing: Mm alrightProject Manager: It's taking it a little bit {disfmarker}Marketing: I've never attached to anything .Industrial Designer: Mm , neither have I .Project Manager: 'Kay there you go.Marketing: Alright , so ,Industrial Designer: Alright .Marketing: I don't know if you guys are able to get access to um the report that was online or if I'm the only one who is . But , I don't even know how to play this .No .Project Manager: Press the little presentation . It's the um {disfmarker} it looks like a Y_ kind of {disfmarker} over there above Draw . There , that one , there you go .Marketing: Alright . So we're just gonna talk alittle bit about the functional requirements that people specified when they were asked . Um I guess Real Reaction did some market research . They had a hundred subjects and their usability lab and they watched themwatch T_V_ and recorded the frequency that they used particular buttons and the relevance that those buttons had . What they found was they analysed people's desires and needs . Focusing on their desires , umpeople specifically said that they thought remotes were ugly {vocalsound} , seventy five per cent of the a hundred subjects noted that and that they {disfmarker} more importantly though , eighty per cent said thatthey would be willing to pay more for a fancier looking remote . I don't know anything beyond what fancy means ,Industrial Designer: Hmm .Marketing: but that's particularly of use to us , I think . Um also they didsome questions on voice recognition and found that the desire for voice recognition was inversely related to age , so younger people were more inclined to want something with voice recognition , whereas the olderpeople in the like sixty and above segment or so did not really think that they would pay more money for voice recognitions .Industrial Designer: 'Kay .Marketing: Um people also had certain frustrations , that I thinkthat we could try to take into consideration with our design . That being people k um frustrated with losing their remotes . I think , over fifty percent of the people mentioned that that was their biggest frustration .People are also frustrated with the difficulty it is to learn how to use a remote and I think that ties back to what you were saying beforeIndustrial Designer: Hmm .Marketing: just that there's too many buttons , it justneeds to be easy to use . It also mentioned something called R_S_I_ and I was hoping someone might be able to inform me as to what R_S_I_ is ,User Interface: Repetitive strain injury .Marketing: because I don'tknow .Project Manager: {gap}User Interface: Repetitive strain injury .Marketing: What ? Ah . There we go .User Interface: So if you {disfmarker}Marketing: Wow . People do not like that . So I guess sort of the carpaltunnel type thing , people do not like that , um the repetitive use , I guess , caused a strain . Um looking at the needs people specified , the problem right now is that people's remotes are not matching their operatingbehaviour . People are only using ten per cent of the buttons that they have offered to them on their remote . And what people do most often is changing the channel and changing the volume . People also zap like tochange the channel , about um sixty five per cent during an hour of use . So we really just need to focus in on those volumes and channel changers rather than things like the audio settings , the screen settings and thechannel settings , because they're used much more infrequently and probably just complicate what's going on . So I think that some things that we might wanna think about , the idea of an L_C_D_ screen was broughtup although they didn't have any details on what people's preferences on that were , so I dunno know if that's coming to me later , or something like that . But something for us to consider also just the phenomenonthat less is more when it comes to the buttons on the remote or what we wanna make easiest to use , make sure that , you know , something like an audio setting isn't given as much importance and visibility on theremote as something like channel changing that's used a lot more often . And basically in order for us to win over to the consumer we just need to focus on what it looks like , that it has a fancy appeal and that it's notugly {vocalsound} and that it feels like the way they're gonna use it , so it doesn't give them any hand injuries or things like that .Industrial Designer: Hmm .Project Manager: Thank you very much . That was that wasgreat .Industrial Designer: Mm 'kay .Project Manager: Um {vocalsound} 's move on to the next presentation um on effects . Was that you ?Marketing: Hmm .Project Manager: Great .Marketing: Yeah , have I unscrewedit ?Project Manager: Push . User interface , right . Interface .Marketing: Here we go .User Interface: Cheers .Marketing: Mm-hmm . And I think that's in the shared , if I did it right , if anyone wants to look at it .ProjectManager: Mm 'kay , thank you .Industrial Designer: Okay , great .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Here we go . Right so I'm gonna talk about the technical technical functions design ofthe remote control um . We need to start by considering what a remote control actually is . It's a device that allows us to produce certain effects on our television , so i it's basically a communication device . We we tellthe remote control what we want to do , it sends a message to the television saying change the channel , change the volume , uh yeah , adjust these settings , adjust the brightness . Um how do we actually go aboutdesigning a new television remote control ? First thing to do is to come up with the design specifications . We need to know what our final product is gonna be like , so we need a a clear idea of exactly what this productdoes , uh how it works , and what the end-user is gonna want from this product . Um . Oh , a way I'd suggest that we could go about this is by designing uh several different prototypes of user interfaces for this product, um and then uh trying to get some feedback uh aboutMarketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: h how well these particular prototypes work , uh sorta find out what people think of 'em . Um using a remote control is isquite a subjective experience . Um ,Project Manager: Hmm .User Interface: and different different people sort of prefer different things . Um we should remember that remote controls are a a fairly standard piece ofequipment . When a users using a remote control , he or she expects the buttons to be in certain places . So in some sense we're gonna we're gonna have to aim for a device which is fairly conventional in design uh sothat we're not completely shocking people . But I think within that there is also room for us to introduce novel ideas uh and to make something that's that's perhaps a little bit different , something that stands out . Umalso in in designing the user interface we need to consider practicalities . Uh the first of these is is technological ye uh what can we do with the current state of technology as it is . The second is is economic , uh we needto find a balance between features and price . So as you mentioned things like voice recognition would would add to the price uh but it would also im improve the design of the product .Project Manager: Hmm .UserInterface: So I had a look on the {disfmarker} on the web uh to see if I could find a few examples of existing television remote controls . In analysing these we can consider what what things {disfmarker} what's goodabout them , uh what things do they get right , what's bad about them , what's wrong with 'em , um how we can improve on the designs that that that I found and what can we do to make our product stand out fromfrom the large majority of remote controls . Here's two examples uh probably at the extreme ends of the spectrum .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Um on the left here we've got uh an engineering-baseddesign for a remote control ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: so it's one that's got lots of buttons , it's it's fully featured , everything you might possibly want to do is there , you know , it's got forward ,backwards , up , down , channel numbers , volume , uh freeze frame . Yeah , it's it's fully featured and it might take a while to get to learn to use it , but once you've learned it you can {disfmarker} you can dowhatever you want with your T_V_ . The one on the right is a lot more basic . It's just got the essential functions of the T_V_ changing the channel , play , stop , volume . It would be a lot quicker to learn to use it , butagain th it's it's swings and roundabouts . There are disadvantages , you can't use it say to to freeze the television picture . Uh there's a lot of features that are missing from that remote control . So we've got to to findour {disfmarker} find a way of striking a balance between the two . Um as I said before , remote controls are subjective , different people want want different things . Um personally wa what I want from a remotecontrol is a device that's simple , it it's easy to use , uh it's got big buttons for doing the things I do most often , changing the volume , changing the channel . It it does everything that I need it to uh , as I said before ,I'm quite lazy , I don't wanna walk across the room just to adjust my television . I also want something that that looks cool , um and that that feels good , that's ergonomically designed .Project Manager: Mm 'kay .Thank you very much . That was very useful . {vocalsound} It's funny to see the {vocalsound} drastic difference between those two remotes . {vocalsound} Um .Industrial Designer: Hmm .Project Manager: Andneither of them were very pretty , you know ?Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: No .Industrial Designer: I think that could be our selling point .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: Afashion fashion remote .Industrial Designer: Right .User Interface: I think there's there's certainly a market for technology that looks cool .Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: And I think that's that's why companieslike Apple've 've 've made a lot of progress .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Hmm .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Right , I really can't see what I'm doing , so does anyone have a {disfmarker}ProjectManager: You {disfmarker} there it is .Industrial Designer: Ah-ha , look at that , showing up already .Project Manager: Lovely .Marketing: So wait , did it let you go on the Internet or was that just what it let you see?User Interface: Uh that was just on the d on the company web site , yeah .Marketing: Okay . 'Cause I was like googlingProject Manager: Hmm .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: and then I'm like wait{vocalsound} it won't let me google . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Alright um {disfmarker} No , how do I play again ?Project Manager: Um the {disfmarker} it's right above Draw .There are three thingy if {disfmarker} it's way at the bottom . Under three iconsIndustrial Designer: Ah .Project Manager: and it's the one that looks like a desk . Yeah , that one . There are Y_s {gap} .IndustrialDesigner: Okay . So this is our working design presentation . Um I had a bit of {disfmarker} some issues with this , because I wasn't able to find everything I needed , but I guess that's {disfmarker} we're still in earlystages . Um so , yeah , this is this . Though th the thing about working design is the {disfmarker} what we're trying to do as a working design is figure out how the aparata apparatus can fulfil its function . Um one ofthe examples that kept coming up for me is that a coffee grinder . It works because it converts electrical energy to grinding the beans and then you put the bean through a filter and that filters out , and then you getcoffee at the end that's nice and hot because of the combination of electrical energy and then the other things that are brought in to make it work . Don't know if I'm explaining that very well , but {disfmarker} how do Iget to the next s ah . So h the method as um working designers figure out what you need to make it fulfil this practical function , what what needs to be done and how do we convert all the elements to make that done.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So wha the easiest thing to do is to break down all the points at which you need something to happen . So you make a schematic of the way that the the energy isconverted tsh towards this practical function . And then I think the easiest thing to do is gonna be work on each task separately . So um {disfmarker}Project Manager: You just press {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Uh. Uh .Project Manager: yeah , just click . That'll be fine .Industrial Designer: So the findings that I got uh very {disfmarker} just very briefly is that you have a choice of the way that the information is projected to thereceiver and in my opinion infra-red is the best way to do that 'cause you don't need a sight line . So that's one thing we're gonna work on . Um the user interface is critical here , because a lot of the things that happenin a remote control happen through the chip that controls {disfmarker} that converts the electrical energy into data , which then goes through the infra-red , so the the chip that uh I think Ian is designing , is gonna becrucial . And really it all comes down to the to the user , because they're the one that's controlling most of the working design . So the components that we find here are the energy source , you know the battery orwhatever that's gonna m make it work , then the chip , which converts the data , the user that's controlling the chip , and the infra-red bulb that's gonna let us move the data to the receiver . So you have four maincomponents and they are designed sort of like this . You have your energy source right there which then um brings uh energy or information to the chip , which is also controlled by the users . You have energy going tothe user who's controlling the chip {disfmarker} ooh 's not what I wanted to do uh uh .Project Manager: Um yeah use that thing {gap} you can go back , previous .Industrial Designer: Previous . Sorry about that , guys.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Pardon .Industrial Designer: Oh .Project Manager: Oh , well .Industrial Designer: No , no , no , no , no .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: Okay , let's just get back to myschematic here .Project Manager: Ye Double click on it . With the right {disfmarker} with the left hand one .Industrial Designer: W yeah , yeah . I think it's frozen . Here . Don't show me that tip again .Project Manager:{vocalsound} There we are .Industrial Designer: There we are . Sorry about this , guys .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I'm kind of pathetic with things like this . Um alright . So you have your energysource , your user interface who's controlling the chip , the chip also uses the energy , and the chip through the use of the user interface is gonna control the switch which will work your infra-red bulb , which will thenbring the data to the receiver . So hopefully that makes sense for everyone in my kind of garbled way .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: This is the the parts of the working design that need to be figuredout . And {vocalsound} personal preferences , besides the fact that I can't spell , we need a long-lasting energy source , people don't wanna be changing it a lot . We need a chip that works well with the user interface ,that isn't too complicated . We need a straightforward interface , like Ian was saying , simple , not overwhelming it with information and we need a reliable and clear infra-red signal , so that you're not waving yourremote aroundProject Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: and having to get frustrated and go do it by hands . So that's pretty much it for the working design .Project Manager: Excellent . {gap} So , um .IndustrialDesigner: Rose , do you think you can give me a hand with this ?Project Manager: Yes , absolutely . Ah I can never tell which way to turn these things .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Lefty loosey , rightytighty , right ?Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: What's up ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Lefty loosey , righty tighty .User Interface: Lefty loosey .Uh .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Never heard that before ,Project Manager: {vocalsound} Oh yes .User Interface: that's good . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface:I'll think of that every time now .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: It's gonna stick in your head .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah , that's a good one it'll stick with you .Project Manager:Mm 'kay . Um I have nothing on my screen . Just a sec . Here we are .Industrial Designer: Mm . Ooh ,Project Manager: Okay , yeah , it's fine .Industrial Designer: no signal .Project Manager: Okay , requirements . Wehave a couple new requirements that I was just e-mailed right before the meeting and that we have to keep in in um in mind as we're creating this .Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: We didn't bring it up yet ,or at all in the meetings so far , but we're not gonna work with teletext because um {disfmarker} well it {disfmarker} that's been taken over by the internet , so we're not gonna worry about um {disfmarker} we're notgonna worry about that .Marketing: What's teletext ?Project Manager: Um .Industrial Designer: Uh , it's a British thing .Marketing: Oh . Oh ,User Interface: You don't have it in the States ?Marketing: so{disfmarker}Project Manager: It {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: No . {vocalsound}Project Manager: no . W d could {disfmarker} would you care to explain it ?User Interface: Oh , I didn't realise . Um yeah , it's like a{disfmarker} I suppose it's kind of similar to a very very basic web browser . Um you have like you have uh numbers on your remote control , uh y and you type in the page number you want ,Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: so like you type a hundred on your remote control and this this kind of index appears on the television screen with just some some text and some very blocky looking graphics on it . And you just typenumbers to go to different pages and it gives you information , mostly rather boring stuff like what's on T_V_ next and share prices and that kind of thing .Marketing: {gap}Industrial Designer: S {vocalsound} Lotterynumbers and sport scores .User Interface: Yep , news headlines .Industrial Designer: But if you ever see the T_V_ saying like go to page one sixty on Ceefax now , that's what they're talking about .Project Manager:How ?User Interface: It's earl it's pretty old technology .Marketing: Oh .User Interface: It's like nineteen eighties .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: That explains a lot .Industrial Designer: I have no idea why we don't"}
{"doc_id":"doc_35","qid":"","text":"Professor B: Are we on ? We 're on . OK .PhD E: Is it on ?PhD D: Yeah .Professor B: Yeah . OK ,PhD D: One , two {disfmarker} u OK .PhD A: Why is it so cold in here ?Professor B: so , uh , we haven't sent around theagenda . So , i uh , any agenda items anybody has , wants to talk about , what 's going on ?Postdoc G: I c I could talk about the meeting .Grad H: Does everyone {disfmarker} has everyone met Don ?Postdoc G: Yeah.Professor B: It 's on ?PhD C: Now , yeah .PhD D: Yeah .Grad H: Yeah ? OK .PhD D: Yeah .Grad F: Hello .Professor B: OK , agenda item one ,PhD D: We went {disfmarker}Grad F: Yeah .Professor B: introduce Don . OK, we did that . Uh {disfmarker}PhD A: Well , I had a {disfmarker} just a quick question but I know there was discussion of it at a previous meeting that I missed , but just about the {disfmarker} the wish list item ofgetting good quality close - talking mikes on every speaker .Professor B: OK , so let 's {disfmarker} let 's {disfmarker} So let 's just do agenda {pause} building right now . OK , so let 's talk about that a bit .PhD A: Imean , that was {disfmarker}Professor B: Uh , @ @ tuss close talking mikes , better quality . OK , {vocalsound} uh , we can talk about that . You were gonna {disfmarker} starting to say something ?Postdoc G: Well ,you {disfmarker} you , um , already know about the meeting {comment} that 's coming up and I don't know if {disfmarker} if this is appropriate for this . I don't know . I mean , maybe {disfmarker} maybe it 'ssomething we should handle outside of the meeting .Professor B: No , no , that 's OK .PhD E: What meeting ?Professor B: We can {disfmarker} so {disfmarker} we can ta so n NIST is {disfmarker} NIST folks arecoming by next weekPostdoc G: OK .Professor B: and so we can talk about that .Postdoc G: Yeah .Professor B: I thinkPhD E: Who 's coming ?Professor B: Uh , uh , John FiscusPostdoc G: Mm - hmm .Professor B: and ,uh , I think George Doddington will be around as well . Uh , OK , so we can talk about that . Uh , I guess just hear about how things are going with , uh , uh , the transcriptions . That 's right .Postdoc G: Sure . Mm -hmm .Professor B: That would sorta be an obvious thing to discuss . Um , An - anything else , uh , strike anybody ?PhD A: Uh , we started {pause} running recognition on {pause} one conversation but it 's the r{pause} isn't working yet . So , But if anyone has {disfmarker}Professor B: OK .PhD E: WhaPhD A: uh , the main thing would be if anyone has , um , knowledge about ways to , uh , post - process the wave forms thatwould give us better recognition , that would be helpful to know about .Professor B: Um ,Grad H: Dome yeah , it sounds like a topic of conversation .Professor B: Yeah , so , uh {disfmarker}PhD E: What about , uh , isthere anything new with the speech , nonspeech stuff ?PhD C: Yeah , we 're working more on it but , {vocalsound} it 's not finished .Professor B: OK . Alright , that seems like a {disfmarker} a good collection of things .And we 'll undoubtedly think of {pause} other things .Postdoc G: I had thought under my topic that I would mention the , uh , four items that I {disfmarker} I , uh , put out for being on the agenda f on that meeting ,which includes like the pre - segmentation and the {disfmarker} and the developments in multitrans .Professor B: Oh , under the NIST meeting .Postdoc G: Yeah , under the NIST thing .Professor B: OK .Postdoc G:Yeah .Professor B: Alright , why don't we start off with this , u u I guess the order we brought them up seems fine .Postdoc G: Yeah .Professor B: Um , so , better quality close talking mikes . So the one issue was thatthe {disfmarker} the , uh , lapel mike , uh , isn't as good as you would like . And so , uh , it {disfmarker} it 'd be better if we had close talking mikes for everybody . Right ?PhD A: Ri - um ,Professor B: Is that{disfmarker} is that basically the point ?PhD A: yeah , the {disfmarker} And actually in addition to that , that the {disfmarker} the close talking mikes are worn in such a way as to best capture the signal . And thereason here is just that for the people doing work not on microphones but on sort of like dialogue and so forth , uh {disfmarker} or and even on prosody , which Don is gonna be working on soon , it adds this extra , youknow , vari variable for each speaker to {disfmarker} to deal with when the microphones aren't similar .Professor B: Mm - hmm .Grad H: Right .PhD A: So {disfmarker} And I also talked to Mari this morning and shealso had a strong preference for doing that . And in fact she said that that 's useful for them to know in starting to collect their data too .Professor B: Mm - hmm . Right , so one thGrad H: Well , so{disfmarker}Professor B: uh , well one thing I was gonna say was that , um , i we could get more , uh , of the head mounted microphones even beyond the number of radio channels we have because I think whether it's radio or wire is probably second - order . And the main thing is having the microphone close to you ,PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor B: u although , not too close .Grad H: Right , so , uh , actually the way Jose is wearinghis is {disfmarker} is c {pause} correct .PhD D: Yeah . Is {disfmarker}Grad H: The good way . So you want to {disfmarker}Professor B: Yeah .PhD D: I it 's not cor it 's correct ?Professor B: Is .Grad H: Yeah , th that 'sgood .Professor B: Yes .PhD D: Yeah .Grad H: So it 's towards the corner of your mouth so that breath sounds don't get on it .PhD D: Yeah . Yeah .Grad H: And then just sort of about , uh , a thumb or {disfmarker} athumb and a half away from your {disfmarker} from your mouth .PhD D: Yeah . Yeah . Uh , yeah .Professor B: Right .PhD A: But we have more than one type of {disfmarker}Professor B: How am I dPhD A: I mean , forinstance , you 're {disfmarker}PhD C: Yeah .Grad H: And this one isn't very adjustable ,PhD D: Yeah .Grad H: so this about as good as I can getPhD A: Right .PhD D: Yeah .Grad H: cuz it 's a fixed boom .PhD D: Is fixed. Yeah .PhD A: But if we could actually standardize , you know , the {disfmarker} the microphones , uh , as much as possible that would be really helpful .Professor B: Yeah .PhD E: Mm - hmm .PhD D: Yeah .Grad H:Mm - hmm .Professor B: Well , I mean it doesn't hurt to have a few extra microphones around ,PhD D: Yeah .Professor B: so why don't we just go out and {disfmarker} and get an order of {disfmarker} of if thismicrophone seems OK to people , uh , I 'd just get a half dozen of these things .Grad H: Well the onl the only problem with that is right now , um , some of the Jimlets aren't working . The little {disfmarker} the boxesunder the table .Professor B: Yeah .Grad H: And so , w Uh , I 've only been able to find three jacks that are working .Professor B: Yeah .PhD E: Can we get these , wireless ?Grad H: So {disfmarker}Professor B: No , butmy point is {disfmarker}PhD A: But y we could just record these signals separately and time align them with the start of the meeting .Professor B: R r right {disfmarker}Grad H: I {disfmarker} I 'm not sure I 'm follow .Say that again ?Professor B: Right now , we 've got , uh , two microphones in the room , that are not quote - unquote standard . So why don't we replace those {disfmarker}Grad H: OK , just two .Professor B: Well ,however many we can plug in . You know , if we can plug in three , let 's plug in three .Grad H: OK .PhD D: Mm - yeah .Professor B: Also what we 've talked before about getting another , uh , radio ,Grad H: Right.Professor B: and so then that would be , you know , three {pause} more .Grad H: Right . OK .PhD D: Mm - hmm .Professor B: So , uh {disfmarker} so we should go out to our full complement of whatever we can do ,but have them all be the same mike . I think the original reason that it was done the other way was because , it w it was sort of an experimental thing and I don't think anybody knew whether people would rather havemore variety or {disfmarker} {vocalsound} or , uh , more uniformity ,PhD A: Right .Professor B: but {disfmarker} @ @ {comment} but uh , sounds {disfmarker} sounds fine .Grad H: Sounds like uniformity wins .PhDD: Right .PhD A: Well , for short term research it 's just {disfmarker} there 's just so much effort that would have to be done up front n uh ,Professor B: Yeah .Grad H: Well {disfmarker}PhD A: so {disfmarker} yeah ,uniformity would be great .Grad H: Yeah .PhD E: Is it because {disfmarker} You {disfmarker} you 're saying the {disfmarker} for dialogue purposes , so that means that the transcribers are having trouble with thosemikes ? Is that what you mean ?PhD A: Well Jane would know more about the transcribers .PhD E: Or {disfmarker} ?Postdoc G: And that 's true . I mean , I {disfmarker} we did discuss this . Uh , and {disfmarker} and{disfmarker}Grad H: Yep . Couple times .Postdoc G: a couple times , so , um , yeah , the transcribers notice {disfmarker} And in fact there 're some where , um {disfmarker} ugh well , I mean there 's {disfmarker} it's the double thing . It 's the equipment and also how it 's worn .PhD A: Right .Postdoc G: And he 's always {disfmarker} they always {disfmarker} they just rave about how wonderful Adam 's {disfmarker} Adam 'schannel is .Grad H: What can I say .Postdoc G: And then ,PhD A: So does the recognizer .Professor B: Yeah .Postdoc G: Yeah .Grad H: Oh , really ? Yeah , I 'm not surprised . I mean , \" Baaah ! \"PhD A: Even if{disfmarker} if you 're talking on someone else 's mike it 's still {pause} you wPostdoc G: Yeah , but I mean it 's not just that , it 's also you know youProfessor B: Yeah .PhD C: Yeah .Postdoc G: It 's also like n nobreathing , no {disfmarker} You know , it 's like it 's {disfmarker} it 's um ,Professor B: Yeah .Postdoc G: it 's really {disfmarker} {nonvocalsound} it makes a big difference from the transcribers ' point of viewGrad H:Yeah , it 's an advantage when you don't breath .Postdoc G: and also from the research s point of view .PhD A: Right .Professor B: When we 're doing {disfmarker}Grad H: Yeah , I think that the point of doing the closetalking mike is to get a good quality signal . We 're not doing research on close talking mikes .Postdoc G: Yeah .Professor B: Yeah .Grad H: So we might as well get it as uniform as we can .PhD A: Right .Professor B:Now , this is locking the barn door after the horse was stolen . We do have thirty hours , of {disfmarker} of speech , which is done this way .Grad H: Yeah .PhD A: That 's OK .Professor B: But {disfmarker} but , uh ,yeah , for future ones we can get it a bit more uniform .PhD A: Great , great .Grad H: So I think just do a field trip at some point .Professor B: Yeah , probably {disfmarker} yeah , to the store we talked about and that{disfmarker}Grad H: Yep .Postdoc G: And there was some talk about , uh , maybe the h headphones that are uncomfortable for people , to {disfmarker}Grad H: Yep . So , as {disfmarker} as I said , we 'll do a field tripand see if we can get all of the same mike that 's more comfortable than {disfmarker} than these things , which I think are horrible .Postdoc G: OK . Good .Grad H: So .PhD A: Great , thank you very much .PhD E:Especially for people with big heads .PhD A: It 's makes our job a lot easier .Professor B: OK . OK .Grad H: And , you know , we 're researchers , so we all have big heads .Professor B: OK .PhD E: Yeah .Professor B:Yeah . Uh , OK , second item was the , uh , NIST visit , and what 's going on there .Postdoc G: Yeah . OK , so , um , uh , Jonathan Fiscus is coming on the second of February and I 've spoken with , uh , {pause} u u alot of people here , not everyone . Um , and , um , he expressed an interest in seeing the room and in , um , seeing a demonstration of the modified multitrans , which I 'll mention in a second , and also , um , he wasinterested in the pre - segmentation and then he 's also interested in the transcription conventions .Grad H: Mm - hmm .Postdoc G: And , um {disfmarker} So , um , it seems to me in terms of like , um , i i it wou Youknow , OK . So the room , it 's things like the audio and c and audi audio and acoustic {disfmarker} acoustic properties of the room and how it {disfmarker} how the recordings are done , and that kind of thing . And ,um . OK , in terms of the multi - trans , well that {disfmarker} that 's being modified by Dave Gelbart to , uh , handle multi - channel recording .Grad H: Oh , I should 've {disfmarker} I was just thinking I should haveinvited him to this meeting . I forgot to do it .Postdoc G: Yeah , OK .Grad H: So .PhD C: Yeah .Postdoc G: Yeah . Well that 's OK , I mean we 'll {disfmarker}Grad H: Sorry .Postdoc G: Yeah , and it 's t and it looks reallygreat . He {disfmarker} he has a prototype . I {disfmarker} I , uh , @ @ {comment} didn't {disfmarker} didn't see it , uh , yesterday but I 'm going to see it today . And , uh , that 's {disfmarker} that will enable us todo {pause} nice um , tight time marking of the beginning and ending of overlapping segments . At present it 's not possible with limitations of {disfmarker} of the , uh , original {pause} design of the software . And um. So , I don't know . In terms of , like , pre - segmentation , that {disfmarker} that continues to be , um , a terrific asset to the {disfmarker} to the transcribers . Do you {disfmarker} I know that you 're al alsosupplementing it further . Do you want to mention something about that c Thilo , or {disfmarker} ?PhD C: Um , yeah . What {disfmarker} what I 'm doing right now is I 'm trying to include some information aboutwhich channel , uh , there 's some speech in . But that 's not working at the moment . I 'm just trying to do this by comparing energies , uh {disfmarker} normalizing energies and comparing energies of the differentchannels .Postdoc G: OK .PhD C: And so to {disfmarker} to give the transcribers some information in which channel there 's {disfmarker} there 's speech in addition to {disfmarker} to the thing we {disfmarker} we didnow which is just , uh , speech - nonspeech detection on the mixed file . So I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm relying on {disfmarker} on the segmentation of the mixed filePostdoc G: This is good . Mm - hmm .PhD C: but I 'm{disfmarker} I 'm trying to subdivide the speech portions into different portions if there is some activity in {disfmarker} in different channels .Postdoc G: Excellent , so this 'd be like w e providing also speaker ID{pause} potentially .PhD C: But {disfmarker} Yeah . Yeah .Postdoc G: Wonderful . Wonderful .Professor B: Um , something I guess I didn't put in the list but , uh , on that , uh , same day later on in {disfmarker} ormaybe it 's {disfmarker} No , actually {pause} it 's this week , uh , Dave Gelbart and I will be , uh , visiting with John Canny who i you know , is a CS professor ,Postdoc G: Oh .Professor B: who 's interested in ar inarray microphones .Grad H: HCC . Oh , he 's doing array mikes .Professor B: Yeah . And so we wanna see what commonality there is here . You know , maybe they 'd wanna stick an array mike here when we 're doingthingsPhD E: That would be cool .Grad H: Yeah , that would be neat .Professor B: or {disfmarker} or maybe it 's {disfmarker} it 's not a specific array microphone they wantPhD D: Yeah .PhD E: That would be reallyneat .Professor B: but they might wanna just , {disfmarker} uh , you know , you could imagine them taking the four signals from these {disfmarker} these table mikes and trying to do something with them{disfmarker} Um , I also had a discussion {disfmarker} So , w uh , we 'll be over {disfmarker} over there talking with him , um , after class on Friday . Um , we 'll let you know what {disfmarker} what goes with that .Also had a completely unrelated thing . I had a , uh , discussion today with , uh , Birger Kollmeier who 's a , uh , a German , uh , scientist who 's got a fair sized group {vocalsound} doing a range of things . It 's sort ofauditory related , largely for hearing aids and so on . But {disfmarker} but , uh , he does stuff with auditory models and he 's very interested in directionality , and location , and {disfmarker} and , uh , head models and{pause} microphone things . And so , uh , he 's {disfmarker} he and possibly a student , there w there 's , uh , a student of his who gave a talk here last year , uh , may come here , uh , in the fall for , uh , sort of afive month , uh , sabbatical . So he might be around . Get him to give some talks and so on . But anyway , he might be interested in {pause} this stuff .PhD D: Mm - hmm .PhD E: That {disfmarker} that reminds me , Ihad a {disfmarker} a thought of an interesting project that somebody could try to do with {pause} the data from here , either using , you know , the {disfmarker} the mikes on the table or using signal energies fromthe head worn mikes ,PhD D: Mm - hmm .PhD E: and that is to try to construct a map of where people were sitting ,Professor B: Right .PhD D: Uh - huh .PhD E: uh , based on {disfmarker}Grad H: Well Dan{disfmarker} Dan had worked on that . Dan Ellis ,PhD D: Uh - huh .PhD E: Oh , did he ? Oh , that 's interesting .Grad H: yeah . So that {disfmarker} that 's the cross - correlation stuff , was {disfmarker} was doing bbeam - forming .PhD D: Yeah .PhD E: And so you could plot out who was sitting next to whoProfessor B: A little bit ,PhD E: and {disfmarker}Professor B: I mean , he didn't do a very extreme thing but just {disfmarker}it was just sort ofPhD D: Yeah , yeah .Grad H: No , he did start on it .Professor B: e e given that , the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the block of wood with the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the two mikes {comment}on either side ,Grad H: Mm - hmm .Professor B: if I 'm speaking , or if you 're speaking , or someone over there is speaking , it {disfmarker} if you look at cross - correlation functions , you end up with a{disfmarker}PhD D: Yeah .Professor B: if {disfmarker} if someone who was on the axis between the two is talking , then you {disfmarker} you get a big peak there . And if {disfmarker} if someone 's talking on{disfmarker} on {disfmarker} on , uh , one side or the other , it goes the other way .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor B: And then , uh , it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it even looks different if th t if the two {disfmarker}two people on either side are talking than if one in the middle . It {disfmarker} it actually looks somewhat different , so .PhD E: Hmm . Well I was just thinking , you know , as I was sitting here next to Thilo that um ,when he 's talking , my mike probably picks it up better than {pause} your guys 's mikes .PhD C: Yeah .PhD D: Yeah .PhD E: So if you just looked at {disfmarker}Grad H: Oh , that 's another cl cue ,PhD D: Yeah .PhDE: yeah , {comment} looked at {comment} the energy on my mike and you could get an idea about who 's closest to who .Grad H: that 's true .PhD D: Yeah .Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD D: Yeah .Professor B: Right.PhD D: Yeah .PhD E: And {disfmarker}Grad H: Or who talks the loudest .PhD C: Yeah .PhD D: Yeah .Professor B: Yeah , well you have to {disfmarker} the appropriate normalizations are tricky , and {disfmarker} and{disfmarker} and are probably the key .Grad H: Yeah .PhD C: Yeah .PhD A: You just search for Adam 's voice on each individual microphone , you pretty much know where everybody 's sitting .PhD C: Yeah .ProfessorB: Yeah . We 've switched positions recently so you can't {disfmarker} Anyway . OK . So those are just a little couple of news items .Postdoc G: Can I ask one thing ? Uh , so , um , Jonathan Fiscus expressed an interestin , uh , microphone arrays .Professor B: Yes .Postdoc G: Um , is there {disfmarker} I mean {disfmarker} b And I also want to say , his {disfmarker} he can't stay all day . He needs to uh , leave for {disfmarker} uh ,from here to make a two forty - five flightGrad H: Oh , so just morning .Postdoc G: from {disfmarker} from Oakland .Professor B: Right .Postdoc G: So it makes the scheduling a little bit tight but do you think that , um{disfmarker} that , uh , i John Canny should be involved in this somehow or not . I have no idea .Professor B: Probably not but I {disfmarker} I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll know better after I see him thisFriday what {disfmarker} what kind of level he wants to get involved .Postdoc G: It 's premature . Fine . Good .Professor B: Uh , he might be excited to and it might be very appropriate for him to , uh , or he might haveno interest whatsoever . I {disfmarker} I just really don't know .Postdoc G: OK .Grad H: Is he involved in {disfmarker} Ach ! {comment} I 'm blanking on the name of the project . NIST has {disfmarker} has done a bigmeeting room {disfmarker} instrumented meeting room with video and microphone arrays , and very elaborate software . Is {disfmarker} is he the one working on that ?Professor B: Well that 's what they 're startingup .Grad H: OK .Professor B: Yeah . No , I mean , that 's what all this is about . They {disfmarker} they haven't done it yet . They wanted to do it {disfmarker}Grad H: OK . I had read some papers that looked like theyhad already done some work .Professor B: Uh , well I think they 've instrumented a room but I don't {pause} think they {disfmarker} they haven't started recordings yet . They don't have the t the transcription"}
{"doc_id":"doc_36","qid":"","text":"PhD A: OK , we 're on .Professor C: OK , what are we talking about today ?PhD B: I don't know . Do you have news from the conference talk ? Uh , that was programmed for yesterday {disfmarker} I guess .Professor C:Uh {disfmarker}PhD D: YesterdayProfessor C: Uh {disfmarker}PhD D: Yesterday morning on video conference .Professor C: Uh ,PhD B: WellProfessor C: oh , I 'm sorry .Grad E: Oh . Conference call .Professor C: Iknow {disfmarker} now I know what you 're talking about . No , nobody 's told me anything .PhD B: Alright .PhD A: Oh , this was the , uh , talk where they were supposed to try to decide {disfmarker}PhD B: To{disfmarker} to decide what to do ,PhD A: Ah , right .PhD B: yeah .PhD D: Yeah .Professor C: Yeah . No , that would have been a good thing to find out before this meeting , that 's . No , I have no {disfmarker} I haveno idea . Um , Uh , so I mean , let 's {disfmarker} let 's assume for right now that we 're just kind of plugging on ahead ,PhD B: Yeah .Professor C: because even if they tell us that , uh , the rules are different , uh , we're still interested in doing what we 're doing . So what are you doing ?PhD B: Mm - hmm . Uh , well , we 've {disfmarker} a little bit worked on trying to see , uh , what were the bugs and the problem with the latencies.PhD D: To improve {disfmarker}PhD B: So , We took {disfmarker} first we took the LDA filters and , {vocalsound} uh , we designed new filters , using uh recursive filters actually .Professor C: So when you say \" we \" ,is that something Sunil is doing or is that {disfmarker} ?PhD B: I 'm sorry ?Professor C: Who is doing that ?PhD B: Uh , us . Yeah .Professor C: Oh , oh . Oh , OK .PhD B: So we took the filters {disfmarker} the FIRfilters {vocalsound} and we {comment} designed , uh , IIR filters that have the same frequency response .PhD D: But {disfmarker}Professor C: Mm - hmm .PhD B: Well , similar , but that have shorter delays.Professor C: Mm - hmm .PhD B: So they had two filters , one for the low frequency bands and another for the high frequency bands . And so we redesigned two filters . And the low frequency band has sixty - fourmilliseconds of delay , and the high frequency band filter has something like eleven milliseconds compared to the two hundred milliseconds of the IIR filters . But it 's not yet test . So we have the filters but we still haveto implement a routine that does recursive filteringProfessor C: OK .PhD B: and {disfmarker}Professor C: You {disfmarker} you had a discussion with Sunil about this though ?PhD B: No . No .Professor C: Uh - huh .Yeah , you should talk with him .PhD B: Yeah , yeah .Professor C: Yeah . No , I mean , because the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the whole problem that happened before was coordination ,PhD B:Mm - hmm .Professor C: right ? So {disfmarker} so you need to discuss with him what we 're doing ,PhD B: Yeah .Professor C: uh , cuz they could be doing the same thing and {disfmarker} or something .PhD B: Mm -hmm . Uh , I {disfmarker} yeah , I don't know if th that 's what they were trying to {disfmarker} They were trying to do something different like taking , uh {disfmarker} well , using filter that takes only a pastProfessorC: Right .PhD B: and this is just a little bit different . But I will I will send him an email and tell him exactly what we are doing , so .Professor C: Yeah , yeah . Um ,PhD B: Um ,Professor C: I mean {disfmarker} We just{disfmarker} we just have to be in contact more . I think that {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the fact that we {disfmarker} we did that with {disfmarker} had that thing with the latencies was indicative of the fact thatthere wasn't enough communication .PhD B: Mm - hmm .Professor C: So .PhD B: Alright .Professor C: OK .PhD B: Um , Yeah . Well , there is w one , um , remark about these filters , that they don't have a linear phase. So ,Professor C: Right .PhD B: Well , I don't know , perhaps it {disfmarker} perhaps it doesn't hurt because the phase is almost linear but . Um , and so , yeah , for the delay I gave you here , it 's {disfmarker} it 's ,uh , computed on the five hertz modulation frequency , which is the {disfmarker} mmm , well , the most important for speech so . Uh , this is the first thing .Professor C: So that would be , uh , a reduction of a hundredand thirty - six milliseconds ,PhD D: The low f fPhD B: Yeah .Professor C: which , uh {disfmarker} What was the total we ended up with through the whole system ?PhD B: Three hundred and thirty .Professor C: So thatwould be within {disfmarker} ?PhD B: Yeah , but there are other points actually , uh , which will perhaps add some more delay . Is that some other {disfmarker} other stuff in the process were perhaps not very{disfmarker} um perf well , not very correct , like the downsampling which w was simply dropping frames .Professor C: Yeah .PhD B: Um , so we will try also to add a nice downsampling having a filter that {disfmarker}that {disfmarker}Professor C: Uh - huh .PhD B: well , a low - pass filter at {disfmarker} at twenty - five hertz . Uh , because wh when {disfmarker} when we look at the LDA filters , well , they are basically low - passbut they leave a lot of what 's above twenty - five hertz .Professor C: Yeah .PhD B: Um , and so , yeah , this will be another filter which would add ten milliseconds again .Professor C: Yeah .PhD B: Um , yeah , and thenthere 's a third thing , is that , um , basically the way on - line normalization was done uh , is just using this recursion on {disfmarker} on the um , um , on the feature stream ,Professor C: Yeah .PhD B: and{disfmarker} but this is a filter , so it has also a delay . Uh , and when we look at this filter actually it has a delay of eighty - five milliseconds . So if we {disfmarker}Professor C: Eighty - five .PhD B: Yeah . If we want tobe very correct , so if we want to {disfmarker} the estimation of the mean t t to {disfmarker} to be {disfmarker} well , the right estimation of the mean , we have to t to take eighty - five milliseconds in the future .Mmm .Professor C: Hmm ! That 's a little bit of a problem .PhD B: Yeah . Um , But , well , when we add up everything it 's {disfmarker} it will be alright . We would be at six so , sixty - five , plus ten , plus {disfmarker}for the downsampling , plus eighty - five for the on - line normalization . So it 'sProfessor C: Uh ,PhD B: plus {disfmarker} plus eighty for the neural net and PCA .Professor C: yeah , but then there 's {disfmarker} Oh.PhD B: So it would be around two hundred and forty {disfmarker} so , well ,Professor C: Just {disfmarker} just barely in there .PhD B: plus {disfmarker} plus the frames , but it 's OK .PhD A: What 's the allowable?Professor C: Two - fifty , unless they changed the rules .PhD B: Hmm .Professor C: Which there is {disfmarker} there 's some discussion of .PhD A: What were they thinking of changing it to ?Professor C: But{disfmarker}PhD B: Yeah .Professor C: Uh , well the people who had very low latency want it to be low {disfmarker} uh , very {disfmarker} {vocalsound} very very narrow , uh , latency bound . And the people whohave longer latency don't . So .PhD A: Huh .PhD B: So , yeah .Professor C: Unfortunately we 're the main ones with long latency , butPhD A: Ah !Professor C: But , uh ,PhD B: Yeah , and basically the best proposal hadsomething like thirty or forty milliseconds of latency .Professor C: you know , it 's {disfmarker} Yeah .PhD B: So . Well .Professor C: Yeah , so they were basically {disfmarker} I mean , they were more or less tradingcomputation for performance and we were , uh , trading latency for performance . And they were dealing with noise explicitly and we weren't , and so I think of it as complementary , that if we can put the{disfmarker}PhD A: Think of it as what ?Professor C: Complementary .PhD A: Hmm .Professor C: I think the best systems {disfmarker} so , uh , everything that we did in in a way it was {disfmarker} it was justadamantly insisting on going in with a brain damaged system , which is something {disfmarker} actually , we 've done a lot over the last thirteen years . Uh , {vocalsound} which is we say , well this is the way weshould do it . And then we do it . And then someone else does something that 's straight forward . So , w th w this was a test that largely had additive noise and we did {disfmarker} we adde did absolutely nothingexplicitly to handle ad additive noise .PhD A: Right .Professor C: We just , uh , you know , trained up systems to be more discriminant . And , uh , we did this , uh , RASTA - like filtering which was done in the logdomain and was tending to handle convolutional noise . We did {disfmarker} we actually did nothing about additive noise . So , um , the , uh , spectral sub subtraction schemes a couple places did seem to seem to do anice job . And so , uh , we 're talking about putting {disfmarker} putting some of that in while still keeping some of our stuff . I think you should be able to end up with a system that 's better than both but clearly theway that we 're operating for this other stuff does involved some latency to {disfmarker} to get rid of most of that latency . To get down to forty or fifty milliseconds we 'd have to throw out most of what we 're doing .And {disfmarker} and , uh , I don't think there 's any good reason for it in the application actually . I mean , you 're {disfmarker} you 're {disfmarker} you 're speaking to a recognizer on a remote server and , uh ,having a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a quarter second for some processing to clean it up . It doesn't seem like it 's that big a deal .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor C: These aren't large vocabulary things so the decodershouldn't take a really long time , and .PhD A: And I don't think anybody 's gonna notice the difference between a quarter of a second of latency and thirty milliseconds of latency .Professor C: So . No . What{disfmarker} what does {disfmarker} wa was your experience when you were doing this stuff with , uh , the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the surgical , uh , uh , microscopes and so forth . Um , how long was it fromwhen somebody , uh , finished an utterance to when , uh , something started happening ?PhD A: Um , we had a silence detector , so we would look for the end of an utterance based on the silence detector .Professor C:Mm - hmm .PhD A: And I {disfmarker} I can't remember now off the top of my head how many frames of silence we had to detect before we would declare it to be the end of an utterance .Professor C: Mm - hmm . Mm- hmm .PhD A: Um , but it was , uh , I would say it was probably around the order of two hundred and fifty milliseconds .Professor C: Yeah , and that 's when you 'd start doing things .PhD A: Yeah , we did the backtrace at that point to get the answer .Professor C: Yeah . Of course that didn't take too long at that point .PhD A: No , no it was pretty quick .Professor C: Yeah .PhD A: So {disfmarker}Professor C: Yeah , so you{disfmarker} you {disfmarker} so you had aPhD A: this wProfessor C: so you had a {disfmarker} a quarter second delay before , uh , plus some little processing time ,PhD A: Right .Professor C: and then the{disfmarker} the microscope would start moving or something .PhD A: Right .Professor C: Yeah .PhD A: Right .Professor C: And there 's physical inertia there , so probably the {disfmarker} the motion itself was all{disfmarker}PhD A: And it felt to , uh , the users that it was instantaneous . I mean , as fast as talking to a person . It {disfmarker} th I don't think anybody ever complained about the delay .Professor C: Yeah , so youwould think as long as it 's under half a second or something .PhD A: Yeah .Professor C: Uh , I 'm not an expert on thatPhD A: Yeah .Professor C: but .PhD A: I don't remember the exact numbers but it was somethinglike that .Professor C: Yeah .PhD A: I don't think you can really tell . A person {disfmarker} I don't think a person can tell the difference between , uh , you know , a quarter of a second and a hundred milliseconds , and{disfmarker} I 'm not even sure if we can tell the difference between a quarter of a second and half a second .Professor C: Yeah .PhD A: I mean it just {disfmarker} it feels so quick .Professor C: Yeah . I mean ,basically if you {disfmarker} yeah , if you said , uh , um , \" what 's the , uh , uh {disfmarker} what 's the shortest route to the opera ? \" and it took half a second to get back to you ,PhD A: Yeah .Professor C: I mean ,{vocalsound} it would be f I mean , it might even be too abrupt . You might have to put in a s a s {vocalsound} a delay .PhD A: Yeah . I mean , it may feel different than talking to a personProfessor C: Yeah .PhD A:because when we talk to each other we tend to step on each other 's utterances . So like if I 'm asking you a question , you may start answering before I 'm even done .Professor C: Yeah .PhD A: So it {disfmarker} itwould probably feel differentProfessor C: Right .PhD A: but I don't think it would feel slow .Professor C: Right . Well , anyway , I mean , I think {disfmarker} we could cut {disfmarker} we know what else , we could cutdown on the neural net time by {disfmarker} by , uh , playing around a little bit , going more into the past , or something like that . We t we talked about that .PhD A: So is the latency from the neural net caused byhow far ahead you 're looking ?Professor C: Mm - hmm .PhD B: Mm - hmm .Professor C: And there 's also {disfmarker} well , there 's the neural net and there 's also this , uh , uh , multi - frame , uh , uh , KLT .PhD A:Wasn't there {disfmarker} Was it in the , uh , recurrent neural nets where they weren't looking ahead at all ?Professor C: They weren't looking ahead much . They p they looked ahead a little bit .PhD A: A little bit . OK.Professor C: Yeah . Yeah , I mean , you could do this with a recurrent net . And {disfmarker} and then {disfmarker} But you also could just , um , I mean , we haven't experimented with this but I imagine you could ,um , uh , predict a , uh {disfmarker} um , a label , uh , from more in the past than in {disfmarker} than {disfmarker} than in the future . I mean , we 've d we 've done some stuff with that before . I think it{disfmarker} it works OK .PhD B: Mm - hmm .PhD A: We 've always had {disfmarker} usually we used the symmetric windowsProfessor C: So .PhD A: but I don't think {disfmarker}Professor C: Yeah , but we 've{disfmarker} but we played a little bit with {disfmarker} with asymmetric , guys .PhD A: Yeah .Professor C: You can do it . So . So , that 's what {disfmarker} that 's what you 're busy with , s messing around with this,PhD B: Uh , yeah .Professor C: yeah . And , uh ,PhD D: Also we were thinking to {disfmarker} to , uh , apply the eh , spectral subtraction from EricssonPhD B: Yeah .Professor C: Uh - huh .PhD D: and to {disfmarker}to change the contextual KLT for LDA .PhD A: Change the what ?PhD D: The contextual KLT .PhD A: I 'm missing that last word . ContextProfessor C: K {disfmarker} KLT .PhD A: KLT .PhD D: KLT {disfmarker}Grad E:Oh . KLT .PhD A: Oh , KLT .Professor C: Mm - hmm .PhD A: Uh - huh .PhD D: KLT , I 'm sorry . Uh , to change and use LDA discriminative .PhD B: Yeah .Professor C: Uh - huh .PhD D: But {disfmarker} I don't know.Professor C: Uh ,PhD A: What is the advantage of that ?PhD D: Uh {disfmarker}PhD B: Well , it 's that by the for the moment we have , uh , something that 's discriminant and nonlinear . And the other is linear but it 'snot discriminant at all . Well , it 's it 's a linear transformation , that {disfmarker} Uh {disfmarker}Professor C: So at least just to understand maybe what the difference was between how much you were getting fromjust putting the frames together and how much you 're getting from the discriminative , what the nonlinearity does for you or doesn't do for you . Just to understand it a little better I guess .PhD B: Mmm . Well{disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} yeah . Actually what we want to do , perhaps it 's to replace {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to have something that 's discriminant but linear , also . And to see if it {disfmarker} if itimproves ov over {disfmarker} over the non - discriminant linear transformation .PhD A: Hmm .PhD B: And if the neural net is better than this or , well . So .Professor C: Yeah , well , that 's what I meant , is to seewhether {disfmarker} whether it {disfmarker} having the neural net really buys you anything .PhD B: Ye Mmm .Professor C: Uh , I mean , it doe did look like it buys you something over just the KLT .PhD B: Yeah.Professor C: But maybe it 's just the discrimination and {disfmarker} and maybe {disfmarker} yeah , maybe the nonlinear discrimination isn't necessary .PhD D: S maybe .PhD B: Yeah . Mm - hmm .Professor C: Couldbe .PhD D: Maybe .Professor C: Good {disfmarker} good to know . But the other part you were saying was the spectral subtraction , so you just kind of , uh {disfmarker}PhD B: Yeah .Professor C: At what stage do youdo that ? Do you {disfmarker} you 're doing that , um {disfmarker} ?PhD B: So it would be on the um {disfmarker} on {disfmarker} on the mel frequency bands ,PhD D: We was thinkPhD B: so . Yeah , be beforeeverything .Professor C: OK ,PhD D: Yeah ,Professor C: so just do that on the mel fPhD D: we {disfmarker} no {disfmarker} nnn We {disfmarker} we was thinking to do before after VAD orPhD B: Yeah ,PhD D: Oh ,{comment} we don't know exactly when it 's better .PhD B: um {disfmarker}PhD D: Before after VAD or {disfmarker}Professor C: So {disfmarker} so you know that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that the way thatthey 're {disfmarker}PhD D: and thenPhD B: Um .Professor C: uh , one thing that would be no {disfmarker} good to find out about from this conference call is that what they were talking about , what they 'reproposing doing , was having a third party , um , run a good VAD , and {disfmarker} and determine boundaries .PhD D: Yeah .Professor C: And then given those boundaries , then have everybody do the recognition.PhD D: Begin to work .Professor C: The reason for that was that , um , uh {disfmarker} if some one p one group put in the VAD and another didn't , uh , or one had a better VAD than the other since that {disfmarker}they 're not viewing that as being part of the {disfmarker} the task , and that any {disfmarker} any manufacturer would put a bunch of effort into having some s kind of good speech - silence detection . It still wouldn'tbe perfect but I mean , e the argument was \" let 's not have that be part of this test . \" \" Let 's {disfmarker} let 's separate that out . \" And so , uh , I guess they argued about that yesterday and , yeah , I 'm sorry , Idon't {disfmarker} don't know the answer but we should find out . I 'm sure we 'll find out soon what they , uh {disfmarker} what they decided . So , uh {disfmarker} Yeah , so there 's the question of the VAD butotherwise it 's {disfmarker} it 's on the {disfmarker} the , uh {disfmarker} the mel fil filter bank , uh , energies I guess ?PhD D: Mm - hmm .PhD B: Mmm , yeah .Professor C: You do {disfmarker} doing the{disfmarker} ?PhD D: Mm - hmm .Professor C: And you 're {disfmarker} you 're subtracting in the {disfmarker} in the {disfmarker} in the {disfmarker} I guess it 's power {disfmarker} power domain , uh , or{disfmarker} or magnitude domain . Probably power domain , right ?PhD B: I guess it 's power domain , yeah .Professor C: whyPhD B: I don't remember exactly .Professor C: Yeah ,PhD D: I don't remember .PhD B:But {disfmarker} yeah , so it 's before everything else ,Professor C: yep .PhD B: and {disfmarker}Professor C: I mean , if you look at the theory , it 's {disfmarker} it should be in the power domain but {disfmarker}but , uh , I 've seen implementations where people do it in the magnitude domainPhD B: Yeah .Professor C: and {disfmarker}PhD B: Mmm .Professor C: I have asked people why and they shrug their shoulders and say, \" oh , it works . \" So .PhD B: Yeah .Professor C: Uh , and there 's this {disfmarker} I guess there 's this mysterious {disfmarker} I mean people who do this a lot I guess have developed little tricks of the trade . Imean , there 's {disfmarker} there 's this , um {disfmarker} you don't just subtract the {disfmarker} the estimate of the noise spectrum . You subtract th that times {disfmarker}PhD B: A little bit more and{disfmarker} Yeah .Professor C: Or {disfmarker} or less , or {disfmarker}PhD A: Really ?PhD B: Yeah .PhD A: Huh !Professor C: Yeah .PhD B: And generated this {disfmarker} this ,Professor C: Uh .PhD B: um , so youhave the estimation of the power spectra of the noise , and you multiply this by a factor which is depend dependent on the SNR . So . Well .PhD D: Hmm , maybe .PhD A: Hmm !PhD B: When the speech lev when thesignal level is more important , compared to this noise level , the coefficient is small , and around one . But when the power le the s signal level is uh small compared to the noise level , the coefficient is more important. And this reduce actually the music musical noise ,PhD A: Oh !PhD B: uh which is more important during silence portions ,PhD A: Uh - huh .PhD B: when the s the energy 's small .PhD A: Hmm !PhD B: So there are"}
{"doc_id":"doc_37","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Think we can first {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: Right it was function F_ eight or something .Industrial Designer: ThaUser Interface: This one right there .Industrial Designer:Okay .User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: Who is gonna do a PowerPoint presentation ?User Interface: Think we all {gap} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: You will as well ?User Interface: Huh . Oh I thought weall were .Industrial Designer: Okay .User Interface: Yeah , I have one too , okay .Project Manager: {gap} .User Interface: SIndustrial Designer: Yep .Marketing: {gap} .User Interface: Whoops I forgot to put the thingon {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Project Manager: Right . I just wanna {disfmarker} 'cause basically I can't re I've {disfmarker} really crap at remembering everyone's name so I just wanna {disfmarker} rather thangoing uh Miss Marketing and Miss this and Miss that {vocalsound} wanted to know your names again .User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: Okay I'm {disfmarker}Project Manager: {gap} just gonna leave this uphere 'cause I'll {vocalsound} you know . So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Okay .User Interface: Yeah . Sure , that's a good idea .Industrial Designer: I'm Catherine with a C_ . C_A_T_H_ E_R_ I_N_E_ .ProjectManager: Okay , andUser Interface: Uh Gabriel .Project Manager: Gabriel . E_L_ is it ?User Interface: E_L_ .Project Manager: 'Kay . And you're s r R_E_I_S_S_ {vocalsound} {gap}Marketing: I am Reissa .R_E_I_S_S_A_ . Double S_ A_ , yeah {vocalsound} yeah . Sorry .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: 'S just a bit nicer calling people by their names I think .Industrial Designer: Right.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: True .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh , right .Marketing: Mm 'kay .Project Manager: Okay , right , welcome to meeting B_ . Um this is gonna go a lot better than thelast meeting , basically ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: uh 'cause I know what I'm supposed to be doing now .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} I am your Project Manager , and , uh yeah , I'm just here toIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {gap} sort of liaise between the three of you and get thingsgoing , get people talking and and I'm gonna be making notes and sending them off to the powers that be and stuff basically . Um right , this {disfmarker} for the purposes of this meeting {disfmarker} what thismeeting is all about is um I'm gonna have some presentations from all three of you , what you've been working on for the last wee while , when you haven't been getting hit with spam on your computers and and , youknow , filling out silly questionnaires and things .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: But hopefully you've been {disfmarker} actually been doing something productive . So we'regonna {disfmarker} each of you gonna give us a litt a little presentation . {vocalsound} Um .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: Then we're gonna {vocalsound} work , you know , from each of your presentations . We'llwe'll uh talk about what we actually need as a final coming together of it all . Um and then we'll , yeah , we'll {gap} sort of conclude {gap} anything else comes up at the end of it .Industrial Designer: How long is themeeting ?Project Manager: This meeting it's not very long . It's uh probably down to about thirty five minutes now . So I want each of your presentations to not be too long , five five minutes , something like that.Industrial Designer: Okay . {vocalsound} No problem . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um if you haven't done a PowerPoint thingy , it doesn't matter , it it just it just says that you {disfmarker} it's {disfmarker} that'sjust one particular medium . If you haven't had time to prepare one , you can draw stuff on the noteboard , you can talk to us , you can {disfmarker} you know however you want to do your little presentation , basically, you can . Don't feel pressurised into using this thing . 'Cause I don't .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh okay . So um . You okay over there ? Reissa ,Marketing: I'm fine . Yeah.Project Manager: are you uh b are you joining in with this meeting hereMarketing: I uh yeah , yeah .Project Manager: or are y or are y or are you are you just are you just uh doing some Internet shopping there ?{vocalsound}User Interface: Think she's finishing up her presentation .Marketing: D I mean , I I'm finishing off my presentation .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: No no . {vocalsound} Uh I'm done . Okay.Project Manager: Okay , jolly good . Alright , let's have um {disfmarker} well , we all know that it's it's a remote control that we're gonna be dealing with .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: I think the first thing weshould look at is um {vocalsound} probably the um what it is that it is actually supposed to be . So that's gonna be you Catherine ,Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: if we wanna hear from you first .IndustrialDesigner: Okay . Um just connecting this .Project Manager: You don't have to worry about screwing it in just {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Are we getting i Really ?Project Manager: there you go .IndustrialDesigner: Okay . Cool . Okay . So I've got a very quick uh {disfmarker} Uh . Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So the working design , I've got a very quick presentation on this , so um I've{disfmarker} oh no , you can't see a thing . {vocalsound} Oh well , I'm gonna draw it on the board then . It's in blue uh , and I couldn't change it .User Interface: Oh . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Ah .IndustrialDesigner: We it's fine on my screen , but never mind . So um {vocalsound} the idea is that we've got the energy source um , which in our case will pr , oh well {disfmarker} okay , never mind . So um I think maybe uhtwo batteries , I dunno what they're called {gap} six , or something like that .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Uh and then {vocalsound} um then on the uh remote control itself will have um the senderfor the signal , which could be uh an infra-red signal , um which will be sent by an electronic chip . And uh the chip will be controlled by the user interface . So we'll hear about that later from Gabriel .Project Manager:Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: And uh the sender will send to the telly itself an infra-red signal to tell it to switch on or switch channels . Um and that's it really for the working design .Project Manager: Great . Okay.Industrial Designer: Sorry the presentation wasn't very uh clear but {disfmarker}Project Manager: I prefer the pe I prefer the human touch personally .Industrial Designer: Really ? Cool .Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Um , should I erase this or {disfmarker}Project Manager: Do you wanna just give us a moment , I just wanna copy this down .Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: Um I dunno if you guyshave got any questions for Catherine on any of this ?Industrial Designer: Fine . {vocalsound} Or suggestions ?Marketing: Is a battery like the only way of {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Well , it's just , you don't wantit plugged in really , sUser Interface: Yeah , alternate energy source , like win wind power or {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah , you blow on it and i {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: In indoors .{vocalsound}Marketing: No , no {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} Bicycle power .Marketing: No I meant like {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: No 'cause like cha 'cause {disfmarker}always changing um um batteries can get like annoying .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: The battery's down and {disfmarker} maybe {vocalsound} , I dunno , solar charged ? {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: I dunno , swi I th I th I think changing your batteries once every six months is not really a pain , but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah , it's worked for the last fifty years you know .Marketing: Mm . Yeah.User Interface: One question I have , and I don't know how much control we have over this is um , as far as the infra-red signal , do we have control over , you know , how far away you can be from the receiving unit ,the the T_V_ , and still have it be operational ? I mean , maybe we want one with a strong signal stream .Project Manager: How far away is your television ?Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: It's never gonnabe more than it's never gonna be , you kno unless you've got a T_V_ the size of a football pitch , it's not {disfmarker} doesn't have to go that far ,User Interface: Uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Well , the thing isuh you you don't {disfmarker}Project Manager: does it ? Doesn't have to go through a wall , because you're not gonna be looking through a wall .User Interface: That's true .Marketing: Yeah , but if like you're on thephone in the other room and you need turn television off or something and you don't really want to go into the {disfmarker} put the telephone down , and go into the other room . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Well, we can make the the signal strong enough to go through walls if if you fancy it . I didn't think about that but {disfmarker}Marketing: How about Bluetooth ? {gap} Instead of using infra-red , use Bluetooth .IndustrialDesigner: Why not ? I just think that it's it's gonna cost moreMarketing: Isn't that a better signal ?Project Manager: Yeah , yeah I d it sounds like you {gap} you w don't wanna overcomplicate things .IndustrialDesigner: and I'm I'm not sure it's {disfmarker} you're gonna use it .Marketing: Mm {vocalsound} .Project Manager: You know we don't need it .Industrial Designer: It's a fancy idea uh it's quite nice , but then I don'tth I dunno , either you {disfmarker} if you wanna watch the telly you're in the room ,Project Manager: Yeah , exactly .Industrial Designer: you are gonna {disfmarker}Project Manager: Basically , we're we're desi we'redesigning and marketing a television remote control unit .Industrial Designer: But {disfmarker}Project Manager: We're not w w w w designing something that you can plug in a headset to and and you know connect toyour laptop computer and stuff . It's uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: Oh , we can we can keep the idea if you i We can see at a later stage , maybe , I don't {disfmarker}Marketing: 'S just an idea.Project Manager: Okay . Right , well done , Catherine . Um Gab Gabriel let's uh let's hear from you on on on such things .User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: Do you need the border ?User Interface: Uh I'm justgonna use the PowerPoint uh .Industrial Designer: Okay . {vocalsound} Sorry .User Interface: Technical {gap} . Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: Okay , so , while this is warming up,Marketing: Adjusting .User Interface: there it is uh .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: So I'm doing the user interface design .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Yeah , and basically uh , as far as methods , Iwas I was looking looking at looking at uh already existing remotes , trying to find some inspiration from designs that are already out there . Thinking of what we can retain , what we can do away with , uh what wewhat we can perfect a little bit as far as design um . {gap} we don't want to do something that's too radical of a change , I guess , I mean people want a remote that's familiar , that has their favourite functionalities umand and does the basics , but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm yeah .User Interface: Um so we can improve what's out there and maintain that , the basic functionality that people want . Um so things that{vocalsound} seem like absolute must-haves uh would be a volume control , um so up-down keys for that , uh channel keys up-down , but then also a numerical key pad so that they can just key directly to the channelthat they want , rather than doing up-down , and uh a mute button . Uh one thing that I didn't include here , that I forgot that we talked about last time , was doing um some sort of lock uh function .Project Manager:Okay .User Interface: Uh , I don't I dunno , uh that's one possibility . And so in the research that I was doing there's basically two types of remotes , ones that are engineering centred and ones that are more usercentred , which I don't know if I can access the web page from here , but I can show you {disfmarker} uh . Yeah . So this is a engineer centred one , so you see it's rather busy , but it also lets you play your movie ,stop your movie , fast-forward , all this , um {vocalsound} freeze frame .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Uh and this is a user centred one . Uh it's it's easier to g just glance at this and see {vocalsound}what's possible to do ,Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: you're not gonna be staring at it for five minutes .Project Manager: Great .User Interface: And I {disfmarker} judging from what what we all talked aboutduring our last meeting I kind of gathered that that's what we were going after , uh or the direction we were going in at least . Um . So , the engineering centred ones uh provide a lot of functionality , but it can be alittle bit overwhelming , so the user centred ones just focus on ease of use . Uh and this sort of overlaps with what the marketing person uh , Reissa ,Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: because uh we we need tofind out what what people want before we make firm decisions on this .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: {gap} . {vocalsound}User Interface: So uh , yeah , that's me .Project Manager: Great . Okay .Now that's I just have a q a q question for you . This w um research that you've been doing looki looking at other , you know , existing units {gap} stuff . Um have you found that anyone else has do has looked into thelocking function or {disfmarker}User Interface: No that that that seemed like a novel idea as f as far as I know . I mean obviously another {disfmarker} {gap} exists {gap} like you like you said in in mobile phones.Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: That was sort of the inspiration for it . Um I've never seen that with {disfmarker} in in all my years in in the remote business .Project Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound}{vocalsound}User Interface: I've , haven't I've never seen a locking functionality . I dunno , what uh do you guys have a a yea or nay on that {gap} a feeling about whether that's really necessary ?Project Manager:Um {disfmarker} I would say it's {disfmarker} If it's simple to do , which I think it probably should be ,User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: even if it's a physical , you know , a f a like a f a physical switch or aphysical cover for the remote , even something like that , um then yes ,User Interface: Mm-hmm . 'Kay .Project Manager: it's {gap} like , you know , like s you said earlier on ab ab ab a flip thing , something like that,User Interface: Right .Project Manager: but you know being physical . Look into . Um I've had word down from head office that something that we should be centred {vocalsound} well , something we should take intoaccount is um we've gotta keep the corporate image within this remote control unit . It's gotta d look like it's in the R_ and R_ .User Interface: Mm {vocalsound} .Project Manager: You know , the the company it's it's ,from what I can see from our other products , are yellow with blue writing on them . Um .Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Mm .User Interface: Right . And our motto is is we put the fashion in electronics .ProjectManager: We put the fashion in electronics . There you go .User Interface: I think I think we have to carry that mental .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: So it's kinda gotta look it's gotta look new and s you knowsomething fashionable . If if remote control {disfmarker} well , if telephones can be fashionable , then maybe remote control units can be .User Interface: Mm .Marketing: Mm .User Interface: Well yeah these , I think ,we can {disfmarker} so we talked about the layout in my presentation and what I didn't mention yet really is is the sort of like the ergonomic design .Project Manager: Yeah . Because we need {disfmarker}UserInterface: I t I think we can make big improvements over these two that you see here , I mean .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah . Great .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh , everything is going tergonomic , you know , there's you know mice for your computers that are very ergonomic and keyboards and that could be one of our niches p sort of uh uh in the market , I guess . Um .Project Manager: Okay ,fantastic .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Right , well done , Gabriel .Marketing: {gap} .Project Manager: Um Reissa . Let's plug you in , baby .Marketing: Where does it go into ?User Interface: {gap} .Marketing:Here ?User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: The blue thing .User Interface: Uh , yeah , this is getting all {gap} .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Mm . {vocalsound}Marketing: {gap} .User Interface: Yeah , then youjust have to do function F_ eight and it should come up .Marketing: Well , function F_ eight . No {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah , w it it just takes a wee while .User Interface: Yeah , it just takes a second uh.Marketing: oh . {vocalsound} Come on . Right . Okay . {gap} . Okay . Well , for our marketing report uh we observed remote control users in a usability lab , and also gave {disfmarker} so this is research{disfmarker} and we also gave participants um questionnaires to fill out . Um total number of people tested were a hundred just so you know , so that hundred people were tested and these were the findings . Soseventy five per cent of users find the remote control ugly . Okay , so they don't like the look of the remote control . Um eighty f eighty per cent of them would spend more money if the rem remote control looked reallycool and fancy . So I think we all agree with that . Um {vocalsound} current remote controls do not match well with the operating behaviour of the user . So , they don't like {disfmarker} like the way they operate itdoesn't like match how people behave . Um {gap} per cent of the users say that they only use ten per cent of the buttons on a remote , so probably if you have like one , two , three , four , five , the whole up to z ten ,they probably don't use those , they only use the up and down channel .Project Manager: 'Cause we've only got five channels . {vocalsound}Marketing: {gap} {vocalsound} exactly .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} That's another thing . {vocalsound} Um seventy five per cent of users say they zap . Not quite sure what they mean , zap , goes like {vocalsound} .Project Manager: I think that'sk flicking quickly between channels .User Interface: Yeah , you wanna navigate the channels quickly I guess .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Mm . Um takes too much time to learn how to use anew remote . I think especially for uh the older generation . I know my grandmother doesn't like mobile phones , takes ages to work how to use . Anyway um and they also {disfmarker} remotes often get lost in theroom , so nobody can find them .User Interface: Mm .Marketing: {vocalsound} So maybe tracking devices is a good idea .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Wow .Marketing: Um personal preferences .{vocalsound}Project Manager: You are a child of technology , aren't you ? {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Um so yeah um {vocalsound} I was thinking something easy to use , especially for olderpeople . Um {vocalsound} has to look really cool , flashy groovy for people to buy it . And it's easy to find {vocalsound} , so I don't know whether maybe {disfmarker} and also we asked them whether they wanted{vocalsound} {disfmarker} whether they'd be interested in um {vocalsound} voice activating .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: So voice activation . So and this was what we came up with . Then if you lookfifteen to twenty five {disfmarker} this is age , sorry , {gap} age groups . So fifteen to twenty five said like ninety two {disfmarker} ninety one per cent of them said yes .Project Manager: So there you go , yeah.Marketing: {vocalsound} Um {vocalsound} so basically the majority except for the forty five to fifty five year olds for some reason didn't want a voice activated one . And neither did the older generation , but theyounger generation who we are catering for , like who have most of the money nowadays , do want a voice act speech recognition in a remote .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh but do the youngergeneration have the money ? They they don't .User Interface: No I would I would say the older the older people , yeah .Project Manager: It's older generation , they're the ones that have gone out and{disfmarker}Marketing: Well the twenty five to thirty five year old , and thirty five , and the thirty five to forty five , forty five point seven per cent {gap} say no , so {disfmarker}Project Manager: People people from"}
{"doc_id":"doc_38","qid":"","text":"Grad B: Sorry . Mental {disfmarker} mental Palm Pilot . Right . Hence {pause} no problem .Grad F: Let 's see . So . What ? I 'm supposed to be on channel five ? Her . Nope . Doesn't seem to be ,Grad B: Hello {pause}I 'm channel one .Grad F: yeah .Grad D: Grad E: What does your thing say on the back ?Grad D: Testing .Grad F: Nnn , five . Alright , I 'm five .Grad D: Sibilance . Sibilance . {comment} {pause} Three , three . I amthree .Grad B: Eh .Grad D: See , that matches the seat up there . So .Grad F: Yeah , well , I g guess {pause} it 's coming up then , or {disfmarker}Grad D: Cuz it 's {disfmarker} That starts counting from zero andthese start counting from one . Ergo , the classic off - by - one error .Grad B: But mine is correct .Grad D: Is it ?Grad E: No .Grad B: It 's one . Channel one .Grad D: Your mike {pause} number {pause} is what we 'retGrad E: Look at the back .Grad B: Oh , oh , oh ! Oh .Grad D: Ho !Grad B: So {disfmarker}Grad D: I 've bested you again , Nancy .Grad B: But your p No , but the paper 's correct .Grad D: The paper is correct .Grad B:Look at the paper .Grad D: I didn't det I was saying the microphone , not the paper .Professor C: Nnn ,Grad B: Oh .Professor C: it 's nGrad B: OK .Professor C: It 's always offset . Yeah .Grad B: Yes , you 've bested meagain . That 's how I think of our continuing interaction . Damn ! Foiled again !Grad D: So is Keith showing up ? He 's talking with George right now . Uh , is he gonna get a rip {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} rip himselfaway from {disfmarker} from that ?Grad B: He 'll probably come later .Professor C: What {disfmarker} He - he he 's probably not , is my guess .Grad D: Oh , then it 's just gonna be the five of us ?Professor C: Yeah.Grad E: Well , he {disfmarker} he was very affirmative in his way of saying he will be here at four . But {pause} you know , that was before he knew about that George lecture probably .Professor C: Right . This{disfmarker} this is not {disfmarker} It 's not bad for the project if Keith is talking to George . OK . So my suggestion is we justGrad B: Forge ahead .Professor C: Forge ahead , yeah .Grad E: Cool .Grad B: Are you incharge ?Grad E: Sure . Um . Well , I sort of had informal talks with most of you . So , Eva just reported she 's really happy about the {pause} CBT 's being in the same order in the XML as in the um {disfmarker} beJava declaration formatGrad F: Yeah . The eGrad E: so you don't have to do too much in the style sheet transversion .Grad F: Uh , yeah . Yeah , so .Grad E: The {disfmarker} uh , Java {disfmarker} the embeddedBayes {pause} wants to take input {disfmarker} uh , uh , a Bayes - net {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} in some Java notation and Eva is using the Xalan style sheet processor to convert the XML that 's output by theJava Bayes for the {disfmarker} into the , uh , E Bayes input .Grad D: Mmm .Grad F: Actually , maybe I could try , like , emailing the guy and see if he has any something already .Professor C: Sure .Grad E: Hmm .GradF: That 'd be weird , that he has both the Java Bayes and the embedded Bayes in {disfmarker}Grad D: But that 's some sort of conversion program ?Grad F: Yeah . Yeah . And put them into different {pause} formats .Oh {disfmarker}Grad D: I think you should demand things from him .Grad F: Yep , he could do that , too .Professor C: He charges so much . Right .Grad D: Yeah .Professor C: No , I think it 's a good idea that you mayas well ask . Sure .Grad F: Yeah .Grad E: And , um , well {pause} pretty mu pretty much on t on the top of my list , I would have asked Keith how the \" where is X ? \" {pause} hand parse is standing . Um . {pause} Butwe 'll skip that . Uh , there 's good news from Johno . The generation templates are done .Grad D: So the trees {pause} for {disfmarker} the XML trees for the {disfmarker} for the gene for the synthesizer are written .So I just need to {pause} do the , uh {disfmarker} write a new set of {pause} tree combining rules . But I think those 'll be pretty similar to the old ones . So . Just gonna be {disfmarker} you know{disfmarker}Professor C: Oh ! You were gonna send me a note about hiring {disfmarker}Grad E: Yes .Professor C: I didn't finish the sentence but he understood it .Grad D: I know what he 's talking about .Professor C:OK . But Nancy doesn't .Grad B: Hiring somebody .Grad E: We {disfmarker} w um {disfmarker}Grad D: The guy .Grad E: OK , so {pause} natural language generation {pause} produces not a {disfmarker} just asurface string that is fed into a text - to - speech but , a {pause} surface string with a syntax tree that 's fed into a concept - to - speech .Professor C: No .Grad B: Yeah . Mm - hmm . Better .Grad E: Now and thisconcept - to - speech module has {pause} certain rules on how {pause} if you get the following syntactic structure , how to map this onto prosodic rules .Grad B: Mm - hmm . Sure . Mm - hmm .Grad E: And Fey hasfoolheartedly agreed to rewrite uh , the German concept uh syntax - to - prosody rules {disfmarker}Grad B: I didn't know she spoke German .Grad E: No , she doesn't .Grad B: Oh , OK .Grad E: But she speaks English.Grad B: Oh . Rewrite the German ones into English . OK , got it .Grad E: Into English . And um therefore {pause} the , uh {disfmarker} if it 's OK that we give her a couple of more hours per week , then {pause} she 'lldo that .Grad B: OK , got it .Grad D: What {pause} language is that {pause} written i Is that that Scheme thing that you showed me ?Grad E: Yeah . That 's the LISP - type scheme .Grad D: She knows how to programin Scheme ? I hope ?Grad E: No , I {disfmarker} My guess is {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I asked for a commented version of that file ? If we get that , then it 's {pause} doable , even without getting into it , eventhough the Scheme li uh , stuff is really well documented in the {pause} Festival .Grad D: Well , I guess if you 're not used to functional programming , Scheme can be completely incomprehensible . Cuz , there 's no{disfmarker} Like {pause} there 's lots of unnamed functionsProfessor C: Syntax . Yeah .Grad D: and {disfmarker}Grad B: Mm - hmm .Grad D: You know ?Professor C: Anyway , it {disfmarker} We 'll sort this out . Um. But anyway , send me the note and then I 'll - I 'll check with , uh , Morgan on the money . I {disfmarker} I don't anticipate any problem but we have to {pause} ask . Oh , so this was {disfmarker} {nonvocalsound}You know , on the generation thing , um if {comment} sh y she 's really going to do that , then we should be able to get prosody as well . So it 'll say it 's nonsense with perfect intonation .Grad D: Are we gonna{disfmarker} Can we change the voice of the {disfmarker} of the thing , because right now the voice sounds like a murderer .Grad E: Yep . We ha we have to change the voice .Grad B: Wh - Which one ?Grad D: The{disfmarker} the little Smarticus {disfmarker} Smarticus sounds like a murderer .Grad B: Oh .Grad A: That 's good to know .Grad D: \" I have your reservations . \"Grad A: But I will not give them to you unless youcome into my lair .Grad E: It is {disfmarker} Uh , we have the choice between the , uh , usual Festival voices , which I already told the SmartKom people we aren't gonna use because they 're really bad .Grad B:Festival ?Professor C: It 's the name of some program ,Grad B: Oh , oh . Got it . OK .Professor C: the {disfmarker} the synthesizer .Grad A: You know , the usual party voices .Grad E: But , umGrad B: Yeah , I know .That doesn't sound , {vocalsound} exactly right either .Grad E: OGI has , uh , crafted a couple of diphone type voices that are really nice and we 're going to use {pause} that . We can still , um , d agree on a gender ,if we want . So we still have male or female .Grad B: I think {disfmarker} Well , let 's just pick whatever sounds best .Grad E: Hmm ?Grad B: Whatever sounds best .Grad E: Uh .Grad B: Unfortunately , probably malevoices , a bit more research on .Grad D: Does OGI stand for {disfmarker} ? {comment} Original German Institute ?Professor C: OregoGrad B: So .Professor C: OrGrad E: Oregon .Grad B: Oregon GraduateInstiProfessor C: Oregon @ @ {comment} Graduate InstituteGrad D: Oh .Grad E: Try Oregon .Grad D: Ah .Professor C: It turns out there 's the long - standing links with these guys in the speech group .Grad B: Hmm!Professor C: Very long .Grad D: Hmm !Grad E: Hmm .Professor C: In fact , there 's this guy who 's basically got a joint appointment , Hynek {pause} Hermansky . He 's - spends a fair amount of time here . Anyway .Leave it . Won't be a problem .Grad E: OK . And it 's probably also absolutely uninteresting for all of you to , um learn that as of twenty minutes ago , David and I , per accident , uh managed to get the whole SmartKomsystem running on the {disfmarker} uh , ICSI Linux machines with the ICSI NT machines thereby increasing the number of running SmartKom systems in this house from {pause} one on my laptop to three .Grad B:Mmm , that 's good .Grad D: How was this by accident ?Grad B: Yeah , I know . Tha - that 's the part I didn't understand .Grad E: Um , I suggested to try something that was really kind of {disfmarker} even thoughagainst better knowledge shouldn't have worked , but it worked .Grad B: Hmm !Grad E: Intuition .Grad A: Yeah .Grad B: Will it work again ,Grad E: Maybe {disfmarker} maybe {disfmarker} maybe a bit for the AI iintuition thing .Grad B: or {disfmarker} ?Grad D: Yeah .Grad E: OK . And , um , we 'll never found out why . It - it 's just like why {disfmarker} why the generation ma the presentation manager is now working ?GradA: Hmm ! This is something you ha you get used to as a programmer , right ?Grad E: WhichGrad A: You know , {comment} and it 's cool , it works out that way .Grad E: Hmm . So , {vocalsound} the {disfmarker} thepeople at Saarbruecken and I decided not to touch it ever again . Yeah , that would work . OK . Um {disfmarker} I was gonna ask you where something is and what we know about that .Grad A: Where {disfmarker} OK.Grad B: Where the \" where is \" construction is .Grad A: What {disfmarker} what thing is this ?Grad E: Where is X ?Grad A: OK .Grad E: Oh , but by {disfmarker} Uh , we can ask , uh , did you get to read all fourhundred words ?Professor C: I did .Grad E: Was it OK ? Was it ?Professor C: Yeah .Grad D: I {disfmarker} I wa I was looking at it . It doesn't follow logically . It doesn't {disfmarker} The first paragraph doesn't seem tohave any link to the second paragraph .Grad A: And so on .Professor C: Yeah .Grad D: Yeah .Grad E: Hmm . That {disfmarker}Professor C: You know , i Yeah , it {disfmarker}Grad D: Each paragraph is good , though .I liProfessor C: I i Yeah . Well , it it 's fine .Grad A: It was written by committee .Professor C: Anyway . Um . But c the meeting looks like it 's , it 's gonna be good . So . I think it 's uh {disfmarker}Grad E: Yeah .Grad B:Yeah , I didn't know about it until {pause} Robert told me , like , Professor C: Yeah , I {disfmarker} I ra I ran across it in {disfmarker} I don't even know where , you know {disfmarker} some just {disfmarker} someweird place . And , uh , yeah , I I 'm surprised I didn't know about itGrad B: Y yeah . Well , yeah . I was like , why didn't Dan tell me ?Professor C: since we know all the invited speakers , anGrad A: Right .Professor C:Right , or some Anyway . So {disfmarker} But anyway , yeah . I so I {disfmarker} I did see that . Oh wha Yeah . Before we get started on this st so I also had a nice email correspondence with Daphne Kohler , who saidyes indeed she would love to work with us on the , um , {disfmarker} you know , using these structured belief - nets and stuff but {pause} starting in August , that she 's also got a new student working on this and thatwe should get in touch with them again in August and then we 'll figure out a way for you {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} you to get seriously connected with , um their group . So that 's , uh {disfmarker} looks prettygood . And um {disfmarker} Yeah , I 'll say it now . So , um {disfmarker} And it looks to me like {comment} we 're now at a good point to do something {disfmarker} start working on something really hard . We 'vebeen so far working on things that are easy .Grad A: Oh !Professor C: Uh , w Which is {comment} mental spaces and uh {disfmarker} and - or {disfmarker}Grad A: Hmm !Grad B: It 's hard . Yeah , it 's hard .ProfessorC: Huh ?Grad A: Yeah .Grad B: Yeah .Professor C: It 's a hard puzzle . But the other part of it is the way they connect to these , uh , probabilistic relational models . So {pause} there 's all the problems that the linguistsknow about , about mental spaces , and the cognitive linguists know about , but then there 's this problem of the belief - net people have only done a moderately good job of dealing with temporal belief - nets . Uh ,which they call dynamic {disfmarker} they incorrectly call dynamic belief - nets .Grad B: Mmm .Professor C: So there 's a term \" dynamic belief - net \" , doesn't mean that . It means time slices . And Srini used thoseand people use them . Uh . But one of the things I w would like to do over the next , uh , month , it may take more , {comment} is to st understand to what extent we can not only figure out the constructions for themfor multiple worlds and uh sort of what the formalism will look like and where the slots and fillers will be , but also what that would translate into in terms of belief - net and the inferences . So the story is that if youhave these probabilistic relational models , they 're set up , in principle , so that you can make new instances and instances connect to each other , and all that sort of stuff , so it should be feasible to set them up insuch a way that if you 've got the past tense and the present tense and each of those is a separate {pause} uh , belief structure that they do their inferences with just the couplings that are appropriate . But that 's gthat 's , as far as I can tell , it 's {disfmarker} it 's putting together two real hard problems . One is the linguistic part of what are the couplings and {disfmarker} and when you have a certain , uh , construction , thatimplies certain couplings and other couplings , you know , between let 's say between the past and the present , or any other one of these things and then we have this inference problem of exactly technically how doesthe belief - net work if it 's got um , let 's say one in {disfmarker} in , you know , different tenses or my beliefs and your beliefs , or any of these other ones of {disfmarker} of multiple models . So um you know , in thelong run we need to solve both of those and my suggestion is that we start digging into them both , uh , in a way we that , you know , th hopefully turns out to be consistent , so that the {disfmarker} Um . Andsometimes it 's actually easier to solve two hard problems than oneGrad A: Yeah .Professor C: because they constrain each other . I mean if you 've got huge ra huge range of possible choices um {disfmarker} We 'llsee . But anyway , so that 's , um {disfmarker}Grad A: Oh yeah , like uh , I solved the {disfmarker} the problem of um {disfmarker} we were talking about how do you {disfmarker} various issues of how come a pluralnoun gets to quote \" count as a noun phrase \" , you know , occur as an argument of a higher construction , but a bare singular stem doesn't get to act that way .Professor C: Right .Grad A: Um , and it would take areally long time to explain it now , but I 'm about to write it up this evening . I solved that at the same time as \" how do we keep adjectives from floating to the left of determiners and how do we keep all of that fromfloating outside the noun phrase \" to get something like \" I the kicked dog \" . Um . Did it {disfmarker} did it at once .Professor C: That 's great .Grad A: So maybe {disfmarker} maybe it 'll be a similar thing .Grad B:Cool .Professor C: Yeah . No , I know , I th I I think that is gonna be sort of the key to this wh to th the big project of the summer of {disfmarker} of getting the constructions right is that people do manage to do this sothere probably are some , uh , relatively clean rules , they 're just not context - free trees .Grad A: Right .Professor C: And if we {disfmarker} if the formalism is {disfmarker} is good , then we should be able to have ,you know , sort of moderate scale thing . And that by the way is {disfmarker} is , Keith , what I encouraged George to be talking with you about . Not the formalism yetGrad A: Mm - hmm .Professor C: but thephenomena .Grad A: Yeah .Professor C: The p And {disfmarker} Oh , another thing , um there was this , uh thing that Nancy agreed to in a {disfmarker} in a weak moment this morning thatGrad A: Hmm !Grad B: Iwas really strong .Grad A: Hmm !Grad F: Hmm .Professor C: Uh , sorry . In a {disfmarker} in a friendly moment .Grad A: Same thing .Professor C: Anyway , uh , that we were {disfmarker} that we 're gonna try to geta uh , first cut at the revised formalism by the end of next week .Grad A: Alright .Professor C: OK ? Probably skipping the mental spaces part .Grad B: Seems {disfmarker}Grad A: Right . I do .Professor C: Uh , justtrying to write up essentially what {disfmarker} what you guys have worked out so that everybody has something to look at . We 've talked about it , but only the innermost inner group currently , uh ,Grad A: Mm -hmm . Knows .Professor C: knows , uhGrad A: OK .Grad B: Yeah , and {disfmarker} and not even all of them really do .Grad A: Yeah .Grad B: But like {disfmarker}Professor C: Right .Grad A: There 's {disfmarker} Thegroup as a whole knows but no individual member knoProfessor C: Well that that {disfmarker} yeah th there 's one of the advantages of a document , right ? ,Grad A: Yeah .Professor C: is {disfmarker} is that itactually transfers from head to head .Grad B: Right .Grad A: OK .Professor C: So anyway . So um {disfmarker}Grad B: Ah , communication !Professor C: Huh ?Grad B: Communication .Grad A: Hunh !Professor C:Communication , documentation and stuff . Anyway , so , uh , with a little luck {disfmarker} Uh {disfmarker} l let 's , let 's have that as a goal anyway .Grad A: So , uh , what was the date there ?Professor C: And{disfmarker}Grad A: Monday or {disfmarker} ? It 's a Friday .Professor C: No , no , no . No , w uh {disfmarker} we 're talking about a week fr e end of next week .Grad A: End of next week .Grad B: But , uh , but{disfmarker} but the two of us will probably talk to you at well before thGrad A: I thought you said beginning of n Yeah .Grad B: I mean . Anyway , w let 's talk separately about how tGrad A: Yeah , I have a busyweekend but after that {disfmarker} {comment} {vocalsound} Yeah , gung - ho .Professor C: OK . Yeah , so {disfmarker} so someti sometime next week .Grad A: Great ,Professor C: Now if it turns out that that effortleads us into some big hole that 's fine .Grad A: Mm - hmm . OK .Professor C: You know , if you say we 're {disfmarker} we 're dump {disfmarker} dump {disfmarker} dump . There 's a really hard problem we haven'tsolved yet {disfmarker} that , that 's just fine .Grad A: OK .Grad B: Mm - hmm .Grad A: But at {disfmarker} at least sort of try and work out what the state of the art is right now .Professor C: Right , t t if {disfmarker}to the extent that we have it , let 's write itGrad A: OK .Professor C: and to the extent we don't , let 's find out what we need to do .Grad A: OK .Professor C: So , uhGrad E: Can we {disfmarker} ? {vocalsound} Is itworth {pause} thinking of an example out of our tourism thing domain , that involves a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a decent mental {pause} space shift {pause} or setting up {disfmarker}Professor C: I think it is ,but {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} but I interrupted before Keith got to tell us what happened with \" where is the Powder - Tower ? \" or whateverGrad B: Right .Grad A: Well . Uh , what was supposed to happen ? I 'vesort of been actually caught up in some other ones , so , um , you know , I don't have a write - up of {disfmarker} or I haven't elaborated on the ideas that we were already talking about which were {disfmarker}GradE: Hmm , yeah . I think {disfmarker} I think we already came to the conclusion that we have two alternative {pause} paths that we {disfmarker} two alternative ways of representing it . One is sort of a {disfmarker}has a umGrad A: It 's gone .Grad E: umGrad A: The question of whether the polysemy is sort of like in the construction or pragmatic .Grad B: One of them was th Right .Grad E: or comes {disfmarker}Grad B: Right.Grad E: is resolved later . Yeah .Grad A: I think it has to be the {disfmarker} the second case .Grad E: Yeah .Grad A: Um , so d ' you {disfmarker} Is it clear what we 're talking about here ?Grad B: I agree .Grad A:The question is whether the construction is semantic or like ambiguous between asking for location and asking for path .Professor C: Uh {disfmarker}Grad B: So you might be {disfmarker} yeah , y And asking fordirections .Grad E: It 's {disfmarker}Grad A: Um or {disfmarker} or whether the construction semantically , uh , is clearly only asking for locationGrad E: Should we have a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a"}
{"doc_id":"doc_39","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay ? Good afternoon . Hope you have good lunch .User Interface: Hi .Industrial Designer: Afternoon . Yeah , we had falafel .Project Manager: Oh . Nice . And you ?User Interface: Uh ,yes , I had something similar but non-vegetarian .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay . So today is um our third meeting . It will be about the conceptual design {vocalsound} uh . If I come back to uh the minutes ofthe last meetings um . We decided not to go for speech recognition technologies because of some reasons and we are not decided about u the use of L_C_D_ screen on on the remote control because of costs . Somaybe we cou wi will be able to clarify this this question to today . Uh at the end of the meeting we should take decision on that point . So I hope uh that your respective pr presentations uh will help us . So each of youhave some presentatio presentation to perform um who starts ?Marketing: Okay , {gap} .Project Manager: So marketing .Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager:{vocalsound} So you are {disfmarker} you saved your y your presentation somewhere ?Marketing: Yep .Project Manager: So you're four ?Marketing: Four , yeah .Project Manager: Which is trend watch . {vocalsound}Okay . Mr Marketing Experts .Marketing: Yeah that's me .Project Manager: So {gap} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Uh . Well I investigate the preference more d I investigate deeper the preference of the users. Uh so the the current investigation th uh th uh sorry the current the n current trends ?User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Yeah ? Okay . {vocalsound} {gap} Okay . {vocalsound} Well wha{vocalsound} what I found {disfmarker} um can you {disfmarker}Project Manager: Next slide ? Yeah .Marketing: Yeah . Thank you . What I found in order of importance from less to more important is that people wantan easy to use device . After they they want something new technologic technologically speaking , but the most {disfmarker} what they what they find more more interesting , more {disfmarker} or more important it'suh a fancy look and feel instead of uh instead of the current the current trend which was f the functional look and feel .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: So now more more cool aspect , ma more{disfmarker} a cooler aspect uh rather than a device with many functions and many buttons with {disfmarker} instead of i instead of ha of a device which can do many things , a device which is pleasant to to watch , tosee .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Uh also {disfmarker} Well {vocalsound} in in Euro in in Paris and and {vocalsound} Milan the {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: in Paris and in Paris and Milan the the current trend of {gap} uh of clothes , furniture and all this all this fashion it's {vocalsound} it's fruit and the the the theme is fruit and vegetables .UserInterface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: And also {vocalsound} in the in the U_S_A_ the the current {disfmarker} the mor the most popular feeling it's it's a spongy . Spongy means eponge ?IndustrialDesigner: Mm-hmm .Marketing: So maybe we should we should think in in this direction , so {disfmarker}User Interface: What what do you mean by {vocalsound} fruit and vegetables and spongy ?Marketing:{vocalsound}User Interface: What {disfmarker} you mean clotheIndustrial Designer: Spongy means it it's like spMarketing: Fruit vegetables is the the new {disfmarker} have you seen the last exposition of clothes inMilan ?User Interface: No , I missed that one .Marketing: Yeah , I I didn't miss an {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: I didn't missand I saw that the fruit , there are many fr pictures of fruits and vegetables in the clothes .User Interface: Oh , they're {disfmarker} okay so they're not like dressed as a carrot they just have like pictures of fruit on ,okay .Marketing: No no , not not yet , not yet .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah , yeah .User Interface: So we're not gonna have a remote control in the shape of of a banana ,Marketing: So te textutextures , yeah .User Interface: just maybe {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Vegetable textures and all this kind .Project Manager: Drawings of bananas .User Interface:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Uh {vocalsound}User Interface: Okay and {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Project Manager: Uh-huh .Marketing: yeah , yeah .Industrial Designer: But what's yoursuggestion how we can have some shape like that on the remote ?Project Manager: Well so this is in the next slide certainly .Marketing: Uh no no , it's not .Project Manager: It's not ? {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} It's {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: So which fruit are you thinking of ?Marketing: And {disfmarker} Um .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: {gap} I ha I haven't thought of any particular fruit , but the general aspect of the of the remote control may may {disfmarker} could remind some kind of vegetable , some kind of instead ofvegetable , some natur mm uh natural object or something .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Marketing: But yeah it it depends on the {disfmarker}Project Manager: So maybe you maybe you can display a banana on theL_C_D_ . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Oh , so you want the remote control to be the shape of a fruit ,Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: or you want just some kind of like fruitlogo on the {disfmarker} {gap}Industrial Designer: Means buttons are in the shape of fruits ,Marketing: Yeah maybe the shape the shape {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: buttons are in the frape {disfmarker} shapeof fruits or something , apple , banana , something like that .Marketing: No , not n not not too much focus , not too much focu not n not too s not too similar to a fruit because next year the ten the trend the trend willbe different .Project Manager: Apple for channel one . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .Marketing: So we shouldn't be at re really attached to to the trendUser Interface: Sosomething that looks half like a fruit and half like an elephant . {vocalsound}Marketing: but {disfmarker} For instance , yeah . African or as an elephant ?Industrial Designer: That we can discuss afterwards{vocalsound} .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay .User Interface: But {disfmarker} okay ,Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: I'm not , I'm not really sure if uh that would really appeal to everyone though ,maybe just to fashion gurus , like maybe just like a little bit n a little fruit picture somewhere in the corner , but I don't know about uh I dunno how ergonomic a , an orange is .Marketing: Well ma maybe we we shouldfurther specify what target are we focusing . I think in my opinion we should focus on on young people because they are more open to new devi new devicesUser Interface: To fruit ?Marketing: and also yeah accordingto the marketing report ninety p ninety five percent of young people was {vocalsound} was was able to to buy a a n a cooler remote control .User Interface: But is it uh is fruit cool ?Marketing: What ?Project Manager:That's a question .Marketing: What ?User Interface: Is fruit cool ?Marketing: Yeah ? Uh {disfmarker} Is the new trend of the {disfmarker}User Interface: Well I guess , you know , Apple has the iPod so , {vocalsound}imagi {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: just 'cause they have an apple on their on their product , doesn't mean fruit is cool . {vocalsound}Marketing: No I think we we should think about a a shapewith it {disfmarker} a device with a shape of some {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay , but it has to be easy to uh to use though and to hold you know , you don't wanna pear or a watermelon . {vocalsound}Marketing:Yeah . Don don't you think we can find uh the shape of a fruit which is handy to use ?User Interface: Well , probably the only thing is a banana that I can think of ,Industrial Designer: Banana .User Interface: acucumber .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Maybe too long .User Interface: I dunno .Marketing: Or mUser Interface: Maybe . Too green .Marketing: Maybe . {vocalsound}Project Manager:{vocalsound}User Interface: So , but I mean you also have to {disfmarker} you have to also have , fit r all the buttons and {disfmarker} you know .Project Manager: A banana .Marketing: Um {disfmarker}UserInterface: It's , it {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: The thing is you have t normally with um with buttons , they have to be at some point attached to a circuit board so if you're gonna have things like{gap} on a cylindrical kind of device it may be difficult to kind of to build .Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I don't th it will be rolling a lot .Marketing: Yeah but I li I like your idea thatwe shouldn't have a lot of buttons b buttons soProject Manager: Okay . Yeah and you you you will not have pla enough {disfmarker} a lot of place to put a L_C_D_ on a banana also .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Uhdo you want a an L_C_D_ with twenty five Euros ? {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Well , you're the Marketing Expert you should tell us if it is too much or not .User Interface: Well , this is{disfmarker}Marketing: I think {disfmarker} Well , according to the to the report people are more interested in in a fa fancy look and feel and in a technological inno in innovation ,Project Manager:{vocalsound}Marketing: so , I will give more importance to the look and feel than {disfmarker} rather than theProject Manager: {vocalsound} So {disfmarker} So you you you suggest to go fMarketing: new inputs andalso it's {disfmarker} I'm not convinced about this L_C_D_ because you need uh internet connection , you need more things , it's not just buying a new control re remote , you need {disfmarker} buying control remote, buying uhProject Manager: Okay . {vocalsound} S so you're simplyMarketing: more things . It's not so simple .Project Manager: you're simply looking s to a remote control that looks like a banana with few buttons{disfmarker} with only a few buttons .Marketing: For instance , yeah . Yeah for for for {disfmarker} given an an example yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay good . So maybe you can go ahead ?Marketing:Yeah no , it's what I already said .Project Manager: Okay . {vocalsound} Thanks . Um . Okay , I'll give the floor . So you are User Interface guy . So you're three ?User Interface: Okay . Yeah .Project Manager: And it'sthis one .User Interface: Yep .Project Manager: Go for it .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yep . Okay . So . S next uh slide . Okay . So I received an email um around lunchtime letting me know that the brilliant minds atour technology division had developed an integrated programmable sample sensor sample speaker unit , um which is a way for you to have a conversation with your coffee machine and or remote control {vocalsound}.Industrial Designer: But it's just a speaker right ?User Interface: It's {disfmarker} no , what it is , it's it's very {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: It's not a microphone .User Interface: It has a has a microphone , has aspeaker , it's got a little chip and it allows you tIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm . Actually I'm not reading microphone there , so that's why you can all have conversation , it {gap} just to speak to you .User Interface:Well , it's a sample sensor sample speaker . Sample sensor sample speaker . It means that it can recognize , it can do like a match on a on a certain phrase that you speak and then can play back a phrase in responseto that .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm , mm-hmm .User Interface: But uh there's no kind of um understanding of the phrase . So , I mean , you know ,Industrial Designer: Okay .UserInterface: I guess you could build that in , you could you could link the the recognition of a certain phrase to some function on on the remote control .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm , mm-hmm , mm-hmm .UserInterface: But basically the thing is , we have this technology availableIndustrial Designer: In-house .User Interface: in-house . So , umIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .User Interface: but the thing is obviously there'sstill gonna be a cost if you decided to integrate that because you still have to pay for the c production of the components ,Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm , mm-hmm .User Interface: so um it it {disfmarker} but itbasically means we c we can kind of consider this from uh you know uh a theoretical or usability kind of viewpoint without worrying too much about you know how to develop it because we have this already done.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm , mm-hmm .User Interface: Whilst you know , some people might get annoyed if we uh if we just dump it , {gap} {disfmarker}Project Manager: I {disfmarker} there's something that I{disfmarker} unclear really understanding . Is this a technology that recognize keywords {disfmarker} speech keywords ?User Interface: It's it it's no , well , it's it'll recognize uh I guess keywords , but you knowkeywords in a certain order like a phrase . You train it for a certain uh , for a certain phrase , you say {disfmarker} the the example they said that they have uh up and running with their prototype is um {disfmarker}well they've actually integrated into the into the the coffee machine that uh that we're producing is , you can say good morning to the coffee machine and it can recognize that phrase and it'll playback good morning ,how would you like your coffee ?Project Manager: And it's just to , it's just to playback something ?User Interface: Yeah . So actually that was a bad example , 'cause it doesn't actually ask how do you want your coffeebecause it can't really understand the response , so .Project Manager: Yeah yeah . So this is not s really to do to to do control .User Interface: Only , like , only in the sense that it it can recognize a set a set target kindof word anProject Manager: Yeah . This is just more like a poi pois yeah .User Interface: It's designed it's designed as a fun kind of thing ,Project Manager: Yeah yeah .User Interface: but I guess you could use it as uhas a way to implement uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: So it it's c uh it itMarketing: Yeah but you can uProject Manager: it is a uh uh easy uh a fancy thing that you you can bring to {disfmarker} we can bring to theremote control that will not have any uhUser Interface: Completely pointless yeah .Project Manager: {disfmarker} yeah comp {vocalsound} completely pointless {vocalsound} for the inter for {disfmarker} from theinteraction point of v point of view {gap} .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah . Yeah , unless you know , you like having conversation with your remote control .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah but the {disfmarker} can we use it for saying okay , channel fifty , channel twenty ?User Interface: Well yeah , that's the thing , if {disfmarker} you can but {vocalsound} you have to prothough I think it's a fairly simple design so you would have to record into the device every possible combination , you have to s tr train it to l to learn channel fifteen , that whole thing , not just the word channel and theword fifteen , it doesn't have that kind of logic in it .Project Manager: Yeah yeah . So this is so this is this is much more than tak taking this technology , bringing it to the remote control and using it .User Interface: So{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Yeah , that would be some development work .Project Manager: So this is out of discussion . So if if if it is something that you can {disfmarker} we can bringeasily and to put it into the banana remote control {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: M Mando .User Interface: {vocalsound} Banana-mando .Project Manager: No this is mm banana-bando , yeah .UserInterface: {vocalsound} Banana-man {vocalsound}Marketing: Banana-mando yeah .Project Manager: Uh then it could be cool yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah okay , let's go ahead .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: I uh I I I don't think it's worth it though , I think it doesn't really add much to the functional design and it's it's it'snot mature enough to use as a speech recognition engine , so {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Um , yeah . So if we can just move on to the next slide , I've just done a quick mock-up of uh uh someof the features of our {vocalsound} potential funky-looking uh remote control {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: It doesn't look like a banana at all .User Interface: Well , you see , I was I wasunaware at this point of th of the fruit focus ,Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: um , so at the moment it's more of a box focus .Project Manager: But you you can fit i you're saying now you can fit it to{disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Looks like a tr look likes a a tro a tropical fruit .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah , well , this is actu this could be a genetically engineered fruit that'sdesigned to be you know square so that it packs tighter in the boxes .Marketing: Yeah . {vocalsound}User Interface: But um , I've just indicated here , we could have actually two scroll wheels , 'cause I think the scrollwheel is a fairly um key part of , you know ,Industrial Designer: Stable thing , that's right . To have {gap} ,User Interface: I think everyone has has agreed that it's {disfmarker} that it could be quite a useful um thing ,so .Industrial Designer: mm-hmm , mm-hmm .User Interface: {vocalsound} But I think it's important , you know , to have two scroll wheels because , you know , you want one for for the channel , but you also wantone for for the volume ,Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: because it's it's {disfmarker} the volume i it's , you know it's very handy for it to have uh instant kind of uh feedback uh and response , so .IndustrialDesigner: Mm-hmm , mm-hmm .User Interface: {vocalsound} But um , I've also included this turbo button because I think , you know , every design should have a turbo button , and {disfmarker} well{vocalsound}Marketing: What's a turbo button ?User Interface: so this is you know , a unique problem with with televisions is that if you have this scro this scroll wheel for the television , the uh the tuner on the T_V_ isnot gonna be able to to switch between stations as fast as you can scroll , so you know , the th the person might want to have a uh {disfmarker} Might want to be able to scroll past television stations without seeingwhat's on them , in which case it just waits until you stop scrolling and then , you know , displays that station . Or they might want to scroll and and have a quick glimpse of it , even if it lags behind what they're doing{gap} .Marketing: It con it controls the speed ?User Interface: Yeah , so with this turbo button you can , say , skip over t channels if uh , you know , if I'm if I'm going {disfmarker} if I'm scrolling past them and youknow , it's um , you could have a little red light that comes up when they press it so they feel you know it's really going fast or whatever .Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: So yeah , that's um, those are the two important uh features I think we need on the remote ,Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .User Interface: but I mean we can discuss about what other kind of buttons we need , um . You know , i it couldbe , you know , if we if we wanna have like a very cheap kind of device , I mean , we could either consider that maybe we want to sell this as a very , if it's gonna be a banana , you know that's a pretty gimmicky kind ofthing that doesn't have that much functionality , it's just you know a couple of scroll wheels and a button cause it's hard to get so many buttons on a bananaProject Manager: It's enough .User Interface: and it's stillvery {disfmarker} it may even be for most {disfmarker} for some people more functional than their current remote , but if they have these scroll wheels , so , um {vocalsound} you know , what other buttons do wewant ?Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .User Interface: I mean we could have {disfmarker} well , I guess you need an on and off switch ,Project Manager: Switch on . Yeah .User Interface: but you could you could o youcould turn it turn it on by taking the top off the banana maybe , you know , it's kind of like a spy kind of flick thing .Marketing: Yeah . So sounds crazy . I like crazy ideas .User Interface: {vocalsound} That's why you'rea marketing guru . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Yeah , of course . {vocalsound}Project Manager: So i it looks like we're going completely to forget about the"}
{"doc_id":"doc_40","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: So we are here to talk about functional design . Now hopefully we've all got a better idea from {vocalsound} {disfmarker} than we did f leaving the last meeting as to what it is we are up to now . Sohere's an agenda . Uh I'll open . Um you should know that I'll be taking minutes during all the meetings , as I was struggling to our last time uh and that'll be easier for me now because I'm not actually giving the wholepresentation . Uh the additional points are just the stuff that we sent and that I forwarded on from upper management having a few bright ideas to make our lives painful .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}{vocalsound}Project Manager: Um {vocalsound} now {vocalsound} you can all give your presentations . We can talk about the requirements and hopefully come to some decisions . {vocalsound} Right , forty minutesfor this meeting , so a bit more time than the last one . Here's the additional points I just wanted to put those in there to see if you guys had any comments on them . Uh did you all receive that email ?User Interface:Yep .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: So does anyone have any overall {gap}Marketing: Well {vocalsound} uh what comes up for me is that if we're gonna if we're gonna be marketing a product that is going to be uhhaving {vocalsound} no teletext , people are very comfortable {vocalsound} with {vocalsound} the idea of having teletext and using teletext , and so we're not {disfmarker} we're gonna be a new product withoutsomething that people are very comfortable having right now .Project Manager: Mm . Mm . Yep .Marketing: So that's , from a marketing perspective I I see I see a lack .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: And so we haveto go , I think , in the other direction . What are we gonna have that makes this thing better than {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well tha that first point could uh also be an op opportunity because in seeing that teletextis becoming outdated , some sort remote control that can work with the Internet {disfmarker} {vocalsound} there is the opportunity that's presented , I guess .Marketing: {vocalsound} Right . Yeah . No , I I agree withyou .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: So what I'm talking about is I see that one side we're eliminating something so we have to come up with another side which is , what are we gonna be targeting our market uhthat {vocalsound} identifies our product as better than {disfmarker} because it doesn't have teletext it has ta-ta-ta-ta-ta .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: So that's that's that was my reactions .Project Manager:Yeah . but but we are sort of being dictated that this should only be for the television .Marketing: Yeah yeah .Project Manager: So we're quite fixed . So we're really probably , in terms of marketing , are looking forthat's uh that's a cost winner rather than a fantastic new feature product .Marketing: Yep .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah bu but we we're designing only the remote ,Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: we not design the T_V_ .Project Manager: Hmm .Industrial Designer: So uh we're gonna be removing the teletext out of any T_V_ that we {disfmarker} people use our remote with .Marketing:Yeah . 'Kay .Project Manager: Hmm .Marketing: That's right .Industrial Designer: So it's kind of a stupid decision .Marketing: I think we take with you .Project Manager: But there's also the potential for mark there's amarket here for our lost teletext .User Interface: Right .Project Manager: For example someone that just goes to the shop that wants a replacement {disfmarker} wants it as {vocalsound} cheap as possible .Twenty-five Euros is the selling price , we really have to innovate here I guess .Marketing: That's what I'm that's what I'm talking about is is that we have to find something that is gonna be very attractive about thisproduct 'cause somebody , some people are gonna be hap unhappy 'cause it took {disfmarker} they can't ac access their teletext .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: Okay . 'Cause we're talking about {vocalsound}eighty percent or ninety percent or ninety-five percent of the televisions out there are are teletext .Project Manager: K yeah .Marketing: So so it's it's not that I'm criticizing the product at all . It's just when we eliminatethat then what do we bring ? What are we bringing in to take the place of this ,Project Manager: Mm 'kay .Marketing: and we have to d {disfmarker} in my opinion we have to double up .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: If we lose one we need to bring two or three .Project Manager: Okay . Okay I think that the {vocalsound} last point is probably quite uh straightforward . Obviously the the {disfmarker} w ithas to be branded . 'Kay .Industrial Designer: So then the double R_ will be our our {disfmarker}Project Manager: On the product yeah . Can you handle that black and yellow ?User Interface: I think one of{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I tho I tho I thou I think Rol Ro Rolls-Royce might mind , but don't worry .User Interface: I think w , yeah , one of the things that we should also keep in mind um when we're doing this{disfmarker} I mean our company's slogan is we put the fashion in electronics , right . So I think our kind of {disfmarker} our target here is to {vocalsound} have some kind of very like sleek {vocalsound} nice lookremote and we want it to be functional as well , but I think one of the main selling points is that we don't want it to be clunky like like this thing here .Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: You know we don't wanna abig clunker . We want something that looks nice and it's fashionable and so {disfmarker}Marketing: So you have this ?Project Manager: Nah . So we have three presentations , and I think we'll go in order of participantnumber here . So we can have a look at the working design first from participant two . That's {disfmarker} {gap} Okay .Industrial Designer: Yes .User Interface: That's fine . Okay soProject Manager: Mm it's enough .But uh click it on off ?User Interface: so you all know me , I'm the Industrial Designer . And we've some basic components that um our remote is gonna need , just basically every remote'll need 'em .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}User Interface: We need some kinda of power d power source . Um we have to decide on our our user interface , which is his department , but the in user interface is also a major component .Um we need a programmable digital signal processor to um to take the input from the user and translate that into uh into electronic signal , which we pass to the infra-red L_E_D_ , which you aim at the television uhwhich {disfmarker} and it receives that signal . You need a on-off switch um I don't know how that got in there . And uh we also need to um have the {vocalsound} {disfmarker} if we want a universal remote we needto have encryption codes for the different makes of T_V_s . So we need to know all the different you know all the different signals and so that'll require some memory as well . Um so here's just a basic layout of howhow the remote would work . You ha the v the power source is in the upper right-hand corner there , and you can see that uh we have the user interface here which is connected to the chip which does all our signalprocessing , and then passes that signal on to the infra-red L_E_D_ and that signal is then emitted and received by the television at the photo-transistor . So {vocalsound} those are the basic components that need togo into this and everything else is pretty much uh open to move around .Marketing: Now is {disfmarker} would this be {vocalsound} considered just a standard uh um {disfmarker}User Interface: I think anydesMarketing: This is not this is not cutting edge technology we're talking here .User Interface: No .Marketing: We're talking about existing technology .User Interface: Right I think {disfmarker}Marketing: Nothing isbeing modified or upgraded or new discoveries .User Interface: Yeah this is just {disfmarker} this is just a basic layout of ev {vocalsound} of all the components that w w are gonna be absolutely necessary f to have aworking remote . We can add things in like if we wanted some voice recognition , I mean that {vocalsound} I mean {vocalsound} that you can kinda say would {vocalsound} would fall under the user interface and thedigital signal processing chip .Marketing: Okay . Okay .Project Manager: Do we have an idea of costs of different components ?User Interface: Um well the most the most costly components are gonna be the chip andthe uh th it could als basically the user interface and the casing are gonna be expensive as well .Project Manager: 'Kay .User Interface: Um the L_E_D_ and the the transistors and everything else are you know they'rethey're pretty cheap . So depending on what we want our functionality to be , um the chip could be expensive or it could be cheap .Project Manager: Mm 'kay .User Interface: Um depending on the n amount of memorywe need in there and stuff like that and h and h {vocalsound} you know how much power .Project Manager: Do we have any ballpark figures for that yet ? No .User Interface: Uh I don't have any figures right now.Project Manager: 'Kay .User Interface: We uh we have to wait until we get to a more specific design phase for that .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Um but {disfmarker} and I think a significant part of the costcould be the actual the actual casing itself and and you know the the b the buttons and things like that , I think .Marketing: N okay . Mm . Mm the shell ?User Interface: Yeah . Basically yeah .Marketing: Okay .ProjectManager: Okay .User Interface: So yeah . That's all I have really .Project Manager: Okay . Thanks . And we have participant three , which I believe is Pedro .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I {disfmarker}ProjectManager: I can give you that to click on .Industrial Designer: Hey mouse .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Open . {vocalsound}Project Manager: And you wanna get {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Whenwe're fighting over it's also more {disfmarker} lot more fun . {vocalsound}Project Manager: View a slide show , that's what you wanna do , yeah ? Just go up to view .User Interface: Click , don't {disfmarker} Yeah.Industrial Designer: Uh .Project Manager: Mm 'kayIndustrial Designer: This doesn't work . {vocalsound} So yeah function design . Um you guys know me , Pedro , and um what I found is we want to do fashion and Ithink , honestly , we should keep technology low and just simple basically and try to aim for design . If basically a case will will cost the same if it looks good or bad so we ma we have to make it look good . Umsomething cute and small . The big chunky remotes are died in the eighties . So we should just go for something that people will like to actually look at .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: And umalthough mo most people will buy s televisions and everything for uh {disfmarker} that have loads of loads of little functions and everything and they mostly end up using simple functions and little things and most thepeople won't won't get too mad of actually having to go the {disfmarker} to the s to the television to , for instance , tune in their {disfmarker} the stations . There's no need to have that in the remote . So um um as forwhat I would recommend for uh the the interface design , and uh I will change the colours on the on the logo , but {vocalsound} um we should go for the user-oriented device , so simple controls and good ergonomics .Um and uh although I th I th I'm still here recommending the teletext so I'll remove that , I guess , but um we should go for the {disfmarker}Project Manager: But I t I think what the {vocalsound} the managementrecommendation was less that there's a worry that teletext will become outdated rather than we shouldn't have it . So I I still think if it's cheap enough functionality-wise to include , it really should be in there .UserInterface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Because otherwise we're just going to {disfmarker} I mean {vocalsound} even if it's necessary or not , if you {disfmarker} if you're given the choice between a t a remote withteletext or without uh when it really {disfmarker} if it i {vocalsound} if it isn't more expensive for us to k make {disfmarker} because as far as I understand it , {vocalsound} it can be operated with the same set ofbuttons , yeah ? So it should be in there .User Interface: Right as far as {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .User Interface: i it's just uh {vocalsound} the cost of an extra button . I meansoftware-wise there's really no difference .Project Manager: Yeah . Okay . Isn't {disfmarker}User Interface: I think .Marketing: {vocalsound} I have maybe a silly question . I {disfmarker} in the very beginning it saidwith the with the advent of computers there's gonna be the {disfmarker} it's gonna be out-moded teletext . I I don't understand how those two things are connected . How does how does computers and teletext{disfmarker} h how {disfmarker} why is one eliminating the need of the other ? I don't understand that .Project Manager: Well maybe what we're getting into here is the the idea of uh Internet through the T_V_ forexample . So that might play on what we can do .Industrial Designer: Yeah the they're basically aiming at saying that {vocalsound} you would use {disfmarker} you know a couple of years ago teletext to be the easiestway to check like for uh uh the scheduling and the next programme and stuff like thatUser Interface: Scheduling . Um to find out what what you're watching even if there's commercials you know .Industrial Designer:and now {disfmarker} YeahMarketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: and now you can c look it over Internet . But I still think teletext is way more convenient until until we have the same commodities .User Interface: Ithink I ha I agree .Marketing: Yeah 'cause , yeah , I just {disfmarker} I don't see the cross-over between computers and television . I mean I do see the cross-over in some sense ,Industrial Designer: Yeah , but it's nothappen yet . Yeah .Marketing: but but but but with the {disfmarker} the remote is is used for television , okay .User Interface: Well for me {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well you have digital T_V_ still already .UserInterface: Yeah .Marketing: So so if we make the cross-over and we're gonna view television on computers then we're then we're losing the the necessity of the remote . SUser Interface: Unless you have a{disfmarker}Project Manager: Well there there is a {disfmarker} for example on digital T_V_ systems you have {disfmarker} you can press a button and you can buy things in adverts ,User Interface: Yeah .ProjectManager: and you can uh you can view through a catalogue for example .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: A a family member of mine has got a system where you just um you can {disfmarker} Yeah , andthere's other features for example on other systems where you can pause live T_V_ and things like that . They're just features from the Internet uh from computers are are coming into the T_V_ sort of under the covers, but you still use it through a teletext .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: So now the things to think here are that that there's gonna be more functionality , potentially that we can handle .Marketing: Okay .IndustrialDesigner: Yeah but we we don't we're not aiming a command for that . That's the thing . And all of those require the other commands with more complexity and more software and {disfmarker}User Interface: {gap} Ithink a lot of that's proprietary anyways . You're not gonna be able to , you , like command a TiVo with our remote . I don't think .Project Manager: Mm . But still there there's an opportunity . If if it's {vocalsound} , forexample , a trainable one then we're {vocalsound} just simply having like an up , down , left , right , an okay button or something like that might might do as well in future proofing it . {gap}Industrial Designer: Yeahbut we would increase the price to try to make it a trainable one , so {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm . Okay .Industrial Designer: Well I dunno . One way the other teletext was there but I guess we can remove it or ,you know , make two separate interface designs .User Interface: I think if it's possible you should try to you know have a talk with management about that . Just you know {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah I don't I don't see the logic .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: I I don't see the logic in elimination of teletext , I just I I {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah , and neither do I in fact .Marketing: butI'm not a tech-mind either . I just don't see the cross-over between computers and and andProject Manager: Bu uh .Marketing: {disfmarker} 'Cause we are designing something for a television , okay .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I'll communicate that back to those guys there a a and th the message really we wanna be sending to them is that , although teletext may become outdated w there's no l logicin not having it in there anyway i if it doesn't affect the price .User Interface: Right it's just notIndustrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Um but I I think what they're pushing us towards here is in terms of thinking ofways to future-proof our system for future systems that have something else other than teletext maybe .User Interface: {disfmarker} Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: We are selling it to an existing market.Project Manager: I dunno I'm {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah but we're not putting some {disfmarker} there's no no putting anything in in the place of teletext .Marketing: That's {disfmarker}Project Manager:Mm 'kay .Marketing: Yeah ,Industrial Designer: That's the problem .Marketing: and and , yeah , and and we're also {vocalsound} marketing a product . It's {disfmarker} what I'm seeing is a is a mid-range cost product.Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: So so w we can't go and pump a whole bunch of technology into this thingProject Manager: Yeah .Marketing: because all of a sudden we are gonna have cost overruns . So if we drop{disfmarker} if we are gonna choose to drop teletext , again what are we adding to the product that makes it marketable ?Project Manager: Hmm . So if we're keeping it basic we're loo loo what we're looking to sell itbasically is it's uh just being very easy to use , looking exceptionally good , that sort of thing . 'Cause we really don't have anything else there , do we ?Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: I don't I don't see it , and tome if I'm gonna market a product for b for beauty for for design I'm gonna I'm gonna try to market it at a much higher price . I need to make it special with a high price tag . I don't want to make it economically uh g uhcompetitive .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: I want I want to market it as exclusive . So I would market this product it {disfmarker} at eighty-nine Euros and come up with some really {vocalsound} beautifulexterior design or something th but but I don't think we have that flexibility .Project Manager: But i if design if design is cheap and functionality is basic , then twenty-five Euros is probably a high price for a commonergarden {disfmarker} stan standard T_V_ so the place {disfmarker} uh remote the then the place we're going to justify that cost is through through design through making it a a sleek elegant {vocalsound} high-pricedbasic remote . Does that make sense , huh ?Marketing: No I no I I understand what you say ,Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: but what I'm what I'm , okay {disfmarker} we probably need to move along ,ProjectManager: Yeah we probably should .Marketing: but my my concern is trying to find a marketing niche for this product ,Project Manager: We we're doing alright for time .Marketing: and if I'm coming in with a with withtwenty-five Euros , which is mid-market price , um then what am I going to give these people for this ?Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: So that's just my question , but we can keep talking .Project Manager: Okay .Sorry that kinda cut into you there .Industrial Designer: No just I I would I would advocate for continuing teletext and those would be the basic commands . Um as for , you know , the the case design uh maybe I'llcome up with more concrete ideas . Right now it's just the idea of simplicity and slickness , cute and small um {disfmarker}User Interface: Right . I'm just thinking you know with all these universal remotes that are outthere , how many people {vocalsound} how many people actually use every feature that ar you know i like these trainable remotes and things like that , where , you know , it's just so confusing to do {vocalsound} touse all these functions . Where I think the largest portion of the market is just gonna {disfmarker} you know they lost their T_V_ remote , they need another one that'll work with their T_V_ . They want something thatlooks nice , that that that isn't gonna break when they drop it , that you know that maybe it's it's ergonomic , it feels good in your hand , something like that .Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: I think that's gonna"}
{"doc_id":"doc_41","qid":"","text":"Grad E: As usual .Grad B: Yes . Whew ! I almost forgot {pause} about the meeting . I woke up twenty minutes ago , thinking , what did I forget ?Grad D: It 's great how the br brain sort of does that .Grad E: Something's not right here .Grad B: Internal alarms .Grad D: OK . So the news for me is A , my forthcoming travel plansGrad B: Yes .Grad D: in two weeks from today ? Yeah ? More or less ? I 'll be off to Sicily and Germany for acouple , three days .Grad B: Now what are y what are you doing there ? I forgot ?Grad D: OK , I 'm flying to Sicily basically to drop off Simon there with his grandparents . And then I 'm flying to Germany t to go to aMOKU - Treffen which is the meeting of all the module - responsible people in SmartKom ,Grad B: Mmm .Grad D: and , represent ICI and myself I guess there . And um . That 's the mmm actual reason . And then I 'malso going up to EML for a day , and then I 'm going to {vocalsound} meet the very big boss , Wolfgang Walster , in Saarbruecken and the System system integration people in Kaiserslautern and then I 'm flying backvia Sicily pick up my son come back here on the fourth of July . And uh .Grad E: What a great time to be coming back to theGrad B: God bless America .Grad E: You 'll see maybe {disfmarker} see the fireworks fromyour plane coming in .Grad D: And I 'm sure all the {disfmarker} the people at the airport will be happy to work on that day .Grad E: Yeah . You 'll get even better service than usual .Grad B: Wait , aren't you flying onLufthansa though ?Grad D: Mm - hmm . Alitalia .Grad B: Oh . Well then the {disfmarker} you know , it 's not a big deal . Once you get to the United States it 'll be a problem , butGrad D: Yeah . And um , that 's that bitof news , and the other bit of news is we had {disfmarker} you know , uh , I was visited by my German project manager who A , did like what we did {disfmarker} what we 're doing here , and B , is planning to comehere either three weeks in July or three weeks in August , to actually work .Grad B: On {disfmarker} ?Grad D: With us .Grad B: Oh .Grad D: And we sat around and we talked and he came up {disfmarker} we came up{disfmarker} with a pretty strange idea . And that 's what I 'm gonna lay on you now . And um , maybe it might be ultimately the most interesting thing for Eva because she has been known to complain about the factthat the stuff we do here is not weird enough .Grad C: OK .Grad D: So this is so weird it should even make you happy .Grad C: Uh . {comment} OK .Grad E: Oh great .Grad D: Imagine if you will , {vocalsound} that wehave a system that does all that understanding that we want it to do based on utterances .Grad B: Mm - hmm .Grad D: It should be possible to make that system produce questions . So if you have the knowledge ofhow to interpret \" where is X ? \" under given conditions , situational , user , discourse and ontological {vocalsound} conditions , you should also be able to make that same system ask \" where is X ? \"Grad E: Mm - hmm.Grad D: in a sper certain way , based on certain intentions . So in instead of just being able to observe phenomenon , um , and , guess the intention we might be able just to sort of give it an intention , and make itproduce an utterance .Grad E: Hmm .Grad B: Well , like in AI they generally do the take in , and then they also do the generation phase , like Nancy 's thing . Or uh , you remember , in the {disfmarker} the hand thingin one - eighty - two , like not only was it able to recognize but it was also to generate based upon situations . You mean that sort of thing ?Grad D: Absolutely .Grad B: OK .Grad D: And once you 've done that what wecan do is have the system ask itself . And answer , understand the answer , ask something else , and enter a dialogue with itself . So the {disfmarker} the ba basic {disfmarker} the same idea as having two chesscomputers play against each other .Grad E: Except this smacks a little bit more of a schizophrenic computer than AI .Grad D: Yeah you c if you want , you can have two parallel {vocalsound} machines um , asking eachother . What would that give us ? Would A be something completely weird and strange , and B , i if you look at all the factors , we will never observe people let 's say , in wheelchairs under {disfmarker} you know , in{disfmarker} under all conditions ,Grad E: That 's good .Grad D: you know , when they say \" X \" , and there is a ride at the goal , and the parking is good , we can never collect enough data . It 's {disfmarker} it 's{disfmarker} it 's not possible .Grad E: Mm - hmm . Right , right .Grad D: But maybe one could do some learning . If you get the system to speak to itself , you may find n break downs and errors and you may be ableto learn . And make it more robust , maybe learn new things . And um , so there 's no {disfmarker} no end of potential things one could get out of it , if that works . And he would like to actually work on that with us.Grad B: Well then , he probably should be coming back a year {pause} from now .Grad D: So Yeah , I w See the {disfmarker} the generation bit , making the system generate {disfmarker} generate something ,{comment} is {disfmarker} shouldn't be too hard .Grad B: Well , once the system understands things .Grad E: Yeah . No problem .Grad B: I just don't think {disfmarker} I think we 're probably a year away fromgetting the system to understand things .Grad D: Yeah . Well , if we can get it to understand one thing , like our \" where is \" run through we can also , maybe , e make it say , or ask \" where is X ? \" Or not .Grad E:Mmm , I don't know . e I 'm sort of {disfmarker} have the impression that getting it to say the right thing in the right circumstances is much more difficult than getting it to understand something given thecircumstances and so on , you know , I mean just cuz it 's sort of harder to learn to speak correctly in a foreign language , rather than learning to understand it . Right ? I meanGrad D: Grad E: just the fact that we 'llget {disfmarker} The point is that getting it to understand one construction doesn't mean that it will n always know exactly when it 's correct to use that construction . Right ?Grad D: It 's {disfmarker} it 's uh{disfmarker} Well , I 've {disfmarker} I 've done generation and language production research for fo four {disfmarker} four and a half years . And so it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} you 're right , it 's not the sameas the understanding . It 's in some ways easier and some ways harder . nuh ?Grad E: Yeah .Grad D: But , um , I think it 'd be fun to look at it , or into that question .Grad E: Nnn , yeah .Grad D: It 's a pretty strangeidea . And so that 's {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} But {disfmarker}Grad B: The basic idea I guess would be to give {disfmarker} allow the system to have intentions , basically ? Cuz that 's basically what needs tobe added to the system for it .Grad D: Well , look at th eee , I think even {disfmarker} think even {disfmarker} What it {disfmarker} would be the {disfmarker} the prior intention . So let 's uh {disfmarker} uh , let 'ssay we have this {disfmarker}Grad B: Well we 'd have to seed that , I mean .Grad D: No . Let 's {disfmarker} we have to {disfmarker} we have some {disfmarker} some top - down processing , given certain setting .OK , now we change nothing , and just say ask something . Right ?Grad B: Grad D: What would it ask ?Grad B: It wouldn't know what to ask . I mean .Grad D: It shurGrad B: Unless it was in a situation . We 'd have toset up a situation where , it didn't know where something was and it wanted to go there .Grad D: Yeah !Grad C: Mm - hmm .Grad D: Yeah .Grad B: Which means that we 'd need to set up an intention inside of thesystem . Right ? Which is basically , \" I don't know where something is and I need to go there \" .Grad D: Eh , nGrad E: Yeah .Grad D: Ooh , do we really need to do that ? Because ,Grad B: Well , no I guess not .ExcelGrad D: s It 's {disfmarker} i I know it 's {disfmarker} it 's strange , but look at it {disfmarker} look at our Bayes - net . If we don't have {disfmarker} Let 's assume we don't have any input from the language .Right ? So there 's also nothing we could query the ontology , but we have a certain user setting . If you just ask , what is the likelihood of that person wanting to enter some {disfmarker} something , it 'll give you ananswer .Grad B: Sure .Grad D: Right ? That 's just how they are . And so , @ @ whatever that is , it 's the generic default intention . That it would find out . Which is , wanting to know where something is , maybe nnn{disfmarker} and wanting {disfmarker} I don't know what it 's gonna be , but there 's gonna be something thatGrad E: Well you 're not gonna {disfmarker} are you gonna get a variety of intentions out of that then ? Imean , you 're just talking about like given this user , what 's the th what is it {disfmarker} what is that user most likely to want to do ?Grad D: Well you can observe some user and context stuff and ask , what 's theposterior probabilities of all of our decision nodes .Grad E: And , have it talk about {disfmarker} OK .Grad D: You could even say , \" let 's take all the priors , let 's observe nothing \" , and query all the posteriorprobabilities . It - it 's gonna tell us something . Right ?Grad B: Well , it will d r assign values to all the nodes . Yes .Grad D: And {disfmarker} Yes . And come up with posterior probabilities for all the values of thedecision nodes . Which , if we have an algorithm that filters out whatever the {disfmarker} the best or the most consistent answer out of that , will give us the intention ex nihilo . And that is exactly what would happenif we ask it to produce an utterance , it would be b based on that extension , ex nihilo , which we don't know what it is , but it 's there . So we wouldn't even have to {disfmarker} t to kick start it by giving it a certainintention or observing anything on the decision node . And whatever that {disfmarker} maybe that would lead to \" what is the castle ? \" ,Grad B: I 'm just {disfmarker}Grad D: or \" what is that whatever \" .Grad B: Iguess what I 'm afraid of is if we don't , you know , set up a {pause} situation , {comment} we 'll just get a bunch of garbage out , like you know , everything 's exactly thirty percent .Grad D: No {disfmarker}Grad C:Mmm .Grad D: Yeah . So what we actually then need to do is {disfmarker} is write a little script that changes all the settings , you know , go goes through all the permutations , which is {disfmarker} we did a{disfmarker} didn't we calculate that once ?Grad B: Well that was {disfmarker} that was absurdly low , in the last meeting ,Grad D: It 's a {disfmarker}Grad C: Uh ,Grad B: cuz I went and looked at it cuz I was thinking, that could not be right , and it would {disfmarker} it was on the order of twenty output nodes and something like twenty {disfmarker}Grad C: And like thirty input nodesGrad B: thirty input nodes .Grad C: or some{disfmarker}Grad B: So to test every output node , uh , would at least {disfmarker} Let 's see , so it would be two to the thirty for every output node ? Which is very th very large .Grad D: Oh ! That 's nGrad E: Oh.Grad D: that 's {disfmarker} that 's nothing for those neural guys . I mean , they train for millions and millions of epochs .Grad B: Well , I 'm talking aboutGrad D: So .Grad B: Oh , I was gonna take a drink of my water. I 'm talking about billions and billions and billions and a number {disfmarker} two to the thirty is like a Bhaskara said , we had calculated out and Bhaskara believes that it 's larger than the number of particles in theuniverse . And if iGrad E: I don't know if that 's right or not . Th - that 's big . That 's just {disfmarker} That 's uh {disfmarker} It 's a billion , right ?Grad B: Two to the thirty ? Well , two to the thirty is a billion , but ifwe have to do it two to the twenty times , then that 's a very very large number .Grad E: Right . Argh . Oh , OK . Yeah . Yeah , that 's big .Grad B: Cuz you have to query the node , for every a uh , or query the net twoto the twenty times .Grad E: Sure . Alright .Grad B: Or not two to th excuse me , twenty times .Grad E: OK . So , is it t comes to twenty billion or something ?Grad B: Yes . As far as {disfmarker}Grad E: That 's prettybig , though .Grad B: That 's @ @ {disfmarker} That 's big . Actually {disfmarker} Oh ! We calculated a different number before . How did we do that ?Grad C: Hmm .Grad E: I remember there being some other onefloating around . But anyway , uh .Grad C: I don't really know .Grad E: Yeah , it 's g Anyway , the point is that given all of these different factors , it 's uh e it 's {disfmarker} it 's still going to be impossible to runthrough all of the possible situations or whatever .Grad C: Ooo , it 's just big .Grad E: But I mean , this 'll get us a bit closer at least , right ? I mean .Grad B: If it takes us a second to do , for each one , and let 's say it's twenty billion , {comment} then that 's twenty billion seconds , which is {disfmarker}Grad E: Yeah .Grad B: Eva , do the math .Grad C: Can't .Grad E: Long !Grad C: Grad B: Hours and hours and hours and hours .But we can do randomized testing .Grad E: Tah - dah !Grad B: Which probabilistically will be good enough .Grad D: Mm - hmm . Yeah . So , it be it it 's an idea that one could n for {disfmarker} for example run{disfmarker} run past , um , what 's that guy 's name ? You know ? He - he 's usually here . Tsk . J J Jer - JerjGrad E: Here in the group ? Jerry Feldman .Grad D: Oh , yeah . That 's the guy . We {disfmarker} we{disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we gGrad B: Wait , who ?Grad E: Yeah , i that would the g the bald guy .Grad B: Oh ! My advisor !Grad D: And um . so this is just an idea that 's floating around and we 'll see whathappens . And um , hmm , what other news do I have ? Well we fixed some more things from the SmartKom system , but that 's not really of general interest , Um , Oh ! Questions , yeah . I 'll ask Eva about the EBayes and she 's working on that . How is the generation XML thing ?Grad B: I 'm gonna work on that today and tomorrow .Grad D: OK . No need to do it today or tomorrow even . Do it next week or {disfmarker}GradB: I 'm gonna finish it today , uh hopefully .Grad D: OK .Grad B: I wanna do one of those things where I stay here . Cuz uh , if I go home , I can't finish it . I 've tried about five times so far , where I work for a while andthen I 'm like , I 'm hungry . So I go home , and then I think {disfmarker}Grad E: I 'm not going back .Grad B: Yeah . Either that or I think to myself , I can work at home . And then I try to work at home , but I failmiserably .Grad E: Yeah .Grad B: Like I ended up at Blakes last night .Grad E: Non - conducive .Grad B: No . I almost got into a brawl . But I did not finish the uh , But I 've been looking into it . I th @ @ It 's not like it's a blank slate . I found everything that I need and stu and uh ,Grad D: But stGrad B: At the b uh furthermore , I told Jerry that I was gonna finish it before he got back . So .Grad D: OK .Grad E: That 's approaching .He 's coming back when ? Uh next {disfmarker}Grad B: Well , I think {disfmarker} we think we 'll see him definitely on Tuesday for the next {disfmarker} Or , no , wait . The meetings are on Thursday .Grad D: Maybe.Grad B: Maybe .Grad D: Who knows .Grad E: OK .Grad B: Well , we 'll see him next week .Grad E: Alright .Grad D: That 's good . Yeah . The paper .Grad E: Hmm .Grad B: I was thinking about that .Grad D: Hmm.Grad B: I think I will try to work on the SmartKom stuff and I 'll {disfmarker} if I can finish it today , I 'll help you with that tomorrow , if you work on it ? I don't have a problem with us working on it though ? So .GradD: OK .Grad B: And it {disfmarker}Grad D: So you would say it 's funky cool .Grad B: I mean we just {disfmarker} I mean it wouldn't hurt to write up a paper , cuz then , I mean , yeah {disfmarker} I was talking withNancy and Nancy said , you don't know whether you have a paper to {pause} write up until you write it up . So .Grad E: Yeah .Grad D: WellGrad B: And since Jerry 's coming back , we can run it by him too . So .GradD: Yep . Um , what 's your input ?Grad E: Well , um , I don't have much experience with uh , conference papers for compu in the computer science realm , and so when I looked at what you had , which was apparentlya complete submission , I just sort of said what {disfmarker} just {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I didn't really know what to do with it , like , this is the sort of the basic outline of the system or whatever , or{disfmarker} or \" here 's an idea \" , right ? That 's what that paper was , \" here 's {disfmarker} here 's one possible thing you could do \" ,Grad D: Mm - hmm .Grad E: short , eight pages , and I just don't know whatyou have in mind for expanding . Like I 'd {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} what I didn't do is go to the web site of the conference and look at what they 're looking for or whatever .Grad D: Mm - hmm . Well , it seems tome that um {disfmarker}Grad B: Wait , is this a computer science conference or is it a {disfmarker}Grad D: Um , well it 's more {disfmarker} It 's both , right ? It 's {disfmarker} it 's sort of t cognitive , neural , psycho, linguistic , but all for the sake of doing computer science . So it 's sort of cognitive , psycho , neural , plausibly motivated , architectures of natural language processing . So it seems pretty interdisciplinary , and I mean, w w the keynote speaker is Tomasello and blah - blah - blah ,Grad E: Right . Oh , yeah .Grad D: so , W the {disfmarker} the question is what could we actually do and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and keep astraight face while doing it .Grad B: Well , I really can't keep a straight face doing anything .Grad D: And i My idea is ,Grad E: Setting that aside .Grad D: well , you can say we have done a little bit and that 's this , anduh sort of the rest is position paper , \" we wanna also do that \" . Which is not too good . Might be more interesting to do something like let 's assume um , we 're right , we have as Jerry calls it , a delusion of adequacy ,and take a \" where is X \" sentence ,Grad E: Mm - hmm .Grad D: and say , \" we will just talk about this , and how we cognitively , neurally , psycho - linguistically , construction grammar - ally , motivated , envision uh ,understanding that \" .Grad E: Mmm .Grad D: So we can actually show how we parse it . That should be able to {disfmarker} we should be able to come up with , you know , a sort of a {disfmarker} a parse .Grad E:Right .Grad D: It 's on , just {disfmarker} just put it on .Grad A: I 'm OK .Grad B: Did Ben harass you ?Grad A: Yes .Grad B: Good .Grad A: Was he supposed to harass me ?Grad B: Yes .Grad A: Well , he just told methat you came looking for me .Grad D: You donGrad B: Oh .Grad D: Grad A: figure this out .Grad D: You will suffer in hell , you know that .Grad E: Backwards . There 's a s diagram somewhere which tells you how toput that {disfmarker}Grad A: I know , I didn't understand that either !Grad B: No wait . You have to put it on exactly like that ,Grad D: This is it . Yeah .Grad B: so put that {disfmarker} those things over your ears likethat .Grad A: OK .Grad B: See the p how the plastic things ar arch out like that ? There we go .Grad A: OK . It hurts .Grad B: It hurts . It hurts real bad .Grad A: It does ! I 'm sorry I didn't mean to {disfmarker}Grad E:But that 's what you get for coming late to the meeting .Grad A: I 'm sorry . I 'm sorry , oh these are all the same . OK ! th this is not very {pause} on target .Grad B: Is your mike on ?Grad C: AnGrad A: Shoot .Grad D:Yeah , it is .Grad B: OK .Grad A: Alright , you guys can continue talking about whatever you were talking about before .Grad E: Um ,Grad D: We 're talking about this um , alleged paper that we may , just , sort ofwGrad A: Oh ! Which Johno mentioned to me . Uh - huh .Grad D: Yeah . And I just sort of brought forth the idea that we take a sentence , \" Where is the Powder - Tower \" ,Grad A: Mm - hmm .Grad D: and we{disfmarker} we p pretend to parse it , we pretend to understand it , and we write about it .Grad E: Hmm . About how {vocalsound} all of these things {disfmarker}Grad A: What 's the part that 's not pretend ? Thewriting ?Grad D: OK , then we pretend to write about .Grad E: The submitting to a major international conference . {comment} {comment} Yeah .Grad A: Tha - {vocalsound} Which conference is it for ?Grad D: It 's thewhatever , architectures , eh you know , where {disfmarker} There is this conference , it 's the seventh already international conference , on neu neurally , cognitively , motivated , architectures of natural languageprocessing .Grad A: Oh . Wow . Interesting .Grad D: And the keynote speakers are Tomasello , MacWhinney ?Grad A: Whinney . {comment} MacWhinney. Uh - huh .Grad D: We - MacWhinney , I think .Grad E: Grad A:So , interesting , both , like , child language people .Grad D: Yeah . Yep .Grad A: OK .Grad D: So maybe you wanna write something too .Grad A: Yeah , maybe I wanna go . Um , why are they speaking at it if it{disfmarker}Grad E: Mmm . {vocalsound} Mmm .Grad A: is {disfmarker} is it normally like {disfmarker} like , dialogue systems , or , you know , other NLP - ish things ?Grad D: No no no no no no no no . It 's"}
{"doc_id":"doc_42","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Wait for the marketing director actually , so . Anyways . Uh . See , shall we wait ? I'm not sure if he's late or delayed or whatever , so I'm gonna start soon , we have now {disfmarker} don't havemuch time anyway .User Interface: Oh , there he is .Industrial Designer: Okay ,Marketing: Yes .Project Manager: There you are ,Industrial Designer: we {disfmarker}Marketing: Sorry ,Project Manager: okay.Marketing: a little bit of pl little problem with computer .Project Manager: Uh no problem . We're about to start , so have a seat . Okay , welcome again .Marketing: {vocalsound} {gap} .Project Manager: Today ,functional design phase . I'll take you over the minutes of last last meeting . Okay , that was just to get to know each other ,Marketing: Uh .Project Manager: have a little thoughts on what your vision is and{disfmarker} on this project , so {disfmarker} I put the minutes on the {disfmarker} I made on the on the p the the project share , so if you wanna review them , they're there . I will do so after every meeting , so ifyou have some information you wanna take back you can find it there . Anyways , um today three presentations , from every one of you . Um after that I got some new project requirements from project board , sowe're gonna go af go after {disfmarker} over this later . But I wanna start with uh stuff you did first , so we can see what everybody came up with . And after that we can have the new requirements and share somethoughts , so . Who would like {disfmarker} wanna go first ?Marketing: Yeah , sure , no problem .Project Manager: Take it .User Interface: Go ahead .Marketing: Um there was a little problem with my computer so notuh the whole uh presentation uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Anyway , let's see what you have .Marketing: Yeah . Um {disfmarker} Okay ,Project Manager: Uh it's still a bit open .Marketing: I want toopen the my s oh no .Project Manager: You should close it on your own notebook , I guess . Yeah . So there ?Marketing: Oh no ,Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: that's okay . Uh slide show . Yes . The functionalrequirements , it's uh {vocalsound} uh very important for uh the user , he he wants to {disfmarker} yeah . The the method we used uh it it's not m not a slide , because it went wrong , but the method we use uh , um{vocalsound} we tested it w uh with uh a hundred uh men , and we asked them to w uh what the remote uh f feel uh like and uh what what's uh important . Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: If I can cut in , is it peopleor men ? {vocalsound}Marketing: People ,Project Manager: Is it people , okay .Marketing: sorry .Project Manager: 'Cause I thought it was only men ,Marketing: Both women and men ,Project Manager: so{disfmarker}Marketing: yeah .Project Manager: 'Kay .Marketing: Okay . Uh the findings um uh {vocalsound} seventy five percent of the users find most remote controls ugly . Um {disfmarker}User Interface: That'spretty shocking uh . {vocalsound}Project Manager: So we have to s we have to do something about that .Marketing: Yeah , and {disfmarker} yeah , most th th they want to spend money for a better system , for betterremote control , so we can do uh a l a little uh nice things with it , and um they use {disfmarker} yeah , they use zap a lot , um uh fifty percent say they only {disfmarker} So that's the most important things .ProjectManager: Okay .Marketing: Um {disfmarker} oh yeah , not all of it is it on mine on my PowerPoint presentation ,Project Manager: Okay , just talk ahead .Marketing: but um uh the relevant buttons are the power , thechannel selection and the volume selection .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: It's uh the most basic buttons that a user wants uh {vocalsound} to use . Uh less important is tel teletext ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm. {vocalsound}Marketing: uh um they use it , but it's not uh very uh important uh on the scale of zero to ten they six and a half uhProject Manager: Okay , that's okay .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: and{disfmarker} but not important is the channel selection , the the {vocalsound} {disfmarker} hmm ?Project Manager: That's a little weird .Marketing: Oh , {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Which channelselection ?Marketing: the the {disfmarker} no no no no no , that's very important , but uh w and not important in the audio settings , display settingsProject Manager: Okay ,Marketing: and uh {disfmarker}ProjectManager: we can we can hide those under a menu or something ,User Interface: Oh , okay .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: okay .Marketing: {vocalsound} Um new preferences preferences . Uh um um beep to findyour control , was {disfmarker}Project Manager: That's like a button on your T_V_ ?Marketing: that was {gap} in the test , the the most people uh f find it uh irritating uh when they cannot find a rem their remotecontrol ,Project Manager: Remote , okay .Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: so uh I think it's a bee beep to sound it and uh you can find it . And another thing uh they want was uh speech recognition um so they cansay uh what they want to {disfmarker} let's go to channel one and uh that's uh kind of things .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: And they want maybe an uh L_C_D_ screen um to to look it um wh what's on everychannel uh and uh what do I want with it ?User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: We wanna have a little preview on the remote control . Preview what's on the channel .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .ProjectManager: Okay .User Interface: Is that manageable ? 'Cause it sounds pretty expensive too .Project Manager: That sounds too {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: It's possible , but uh I think it's expensive, but do continue .User Interface: Okay .Marketing: Yeah . Um {disfmarker} Uh my personal preferences is uh a button for my favourite channel , so I can uh I dunno , so I can zap to my uh f uh quick uh to myfavourite channel wh what I uh {disfmarker} so , the remote mu must see or um must um {vocalsound} see wha what mine preferences are for which channel ,Project Manager: Okay , you don't set it yourself,Marketing: so I can zap t to {disfmarker}Project Manager: it just remembers the channel that you are on most , for example .Marketing: What ?Project Manager: You want the {disfmarker} you want it to beprogrammed , for example y programmed fMarketing: Yeah .Project Manager: or you want it to recognise your favourite channel ?Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Let's see , you you spend twenty minutes each dayon that channel ,Marketing: Recognise {disfmarker}Project Manager: so it recognises your favourite channel .Marketing: Yeah . Yeah , that's uh what my personal preference like .Project Manager: Okay , so it's it itdoes {disfmarker} it recognise itself , you don't have to set it {disfmarker}Marketing: No ,Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: itself . Maybe it's easier to {vocalsound} to sell it , but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: I don't know it's manageable , but we will uh we will see .Project Manager: I see .Marketing: Yeah , it's a little bit uh it's the end of it .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: It's a little bit uh I lost it ,UserInterface: Okay .Marketing: the computer uh crashed ,Project Manager: {vocalsound} No problem , it's it's okay ,Marketing: so .Project Manager: that's {disfmarker} Yeah , go ahead .User Interface: Shall I go ? Okay.Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: So , some technical functions .Marketing: Darn computer .User Interface: Basically I have some issues which you discussed earlier . Uh let's just start with the method .Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound} It sounds really easy , what does the user do , what does the th remote control do , but there are quite some issues . So the things I'm going to concentrate on are the user aspect ,because the technical aspect , that's pretty much covered . We can do that . What goes wrong {vocalsound} at the user . Gets the remote control . Where is the remote control ? We've all had it once , I want to watchsome television ,Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: where's the remote control ? That was one of your ideas which you posted in the network folder ,Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: That seems very good .UserInterface: a really good idea . Uh these are just the issues . I come to some uh personal experience , findings , possible solutions later . Searches for the button . There are many buttons on a remote control which arenot clear . Uh so either we lose those or we try to make it a little bit more clear .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Uh also symbols tend to fade after a while .Marketing: Mm uh .User Interface: There'snothing more annoying than faded symbols , because you don't know which channel is this button , so possibly we could find uh something for that ,Project Manager: Okay , so have it more {disfmarker} make it moredurable actually . Okay .User Interface: yes . Uh covered that . Oh yes , user presses the button . Um usually when you have a lot of buttons , buttons are small . So you press more once remote control goes kabloueyor something like that ,Project Manager: Okay , so the buttons should be {disfmarker}User Interface: so we have to pay attention not to put too mun too many buttons on uh the remote control . {vocalsound}ProjectManager: Mm-hmm . Yeah .User Interface: And possibly also the size , so more important buttons , biggerProject Manager: Wow . The s Yeah . Make it {disfmarker} make them bigger .User Interface: siProjectManager: Even more durable uh .User Interface: So this is basically what I h had in mind in the {disfmarker} fade-proof symbols , locator , a sound , uh so clear we should stick to existing symbols , but maybe we coulddo a little uh investigation to see whether some symbols are uh {disfmarker} need to be replaced by others . Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: This I pretty much covered . {vocalsound} So whatwe want to go to is not this one ,Project Manager: Yeah , it's true .User Interface: but more {disfmarker} less buttons , easy , some bigger buttons .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: that's basically uh what I had inmind . SoProject Manager: Yeah , that's clear .User Interface: This is not the final design ,Project Manager: No , of course uh {disfmarker}User Interface: this is just a general idea of how I'd like to see uh basically thegeneral idea .Project Manager: Yeah . I must say that it {disfmarker} Hmm .User Interface: {vocalsound} So that was it .Project Manager: That was it . Okay , that was good . So we agree on the the part that we needto get something on the on the remote to find it somewhere and increase it {disfmarker} the durability of of the thing ,User Interface: Yeah , I think it's a really good idea .Project Manager: so {disfmarker}UserInterface: Yeah .Project Manager: The other aspects , we'll just see how {disfmarker} what you came up with and what's possible for that budget .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer:Okay , that's fine . Um . Okay , now work a little with me . Okay . Well ,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: let's start it as it is . Okay , uh the method . There are a few questions that need to beanswered , uh you already uh talked about it a little bit . Which buttons are wanted , uh is our remote control universal or should it be programmable . Uh if it should be programmeab grammeale then we need umsomething like a mode that you can switch it . Because then the buttons have to send out a different signal then they would normally do .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: And uh how big is the remotecontrol uh going to be ? I'll tell you why that's important to me . Um there are a lot of technical parts in the remote control , so uh uh that's {vocalsound} why I also would like to say uh go a little bit easy on the designs, uh I heard ab uh you talking about beeps and about uh video screens , but uh the material inside and the technical aspects are quite complex already .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: So keep in mindthat everything that you keep uh {disfmarker} think of , it has to b to be built .Project Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound} Of course , hmm .Industrial Designer: So it's {disfmarker} that's not as easy as it s might look like.User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: Uh material study , I'm working on that um for the the costs . I have to check out how far I can go with that . Normally , a circuit board is made of fibreglass uh and the wiresare made of copper . Uh that is how it is done and all the remote controls work that way , I think we can just go on with that . Um then I've read more integration of materials means less cost for the production . Themore we can make uh at once uh in one piece , uh that is cheaper .Project Manager: You mean integrate them all into the circuit board . Okay .Industrial Designer: Exactly , so if we make a circuit board with the theconnections already on it , then that's cheaper .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah , okay .Industrial Designer: So we have to {vocalsound} make something that's not too difficult in design again .Project Manager: Soyou have {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: This is what look like uh looks like if you press one button , so this is not the entire thing . You have the the power coming in , then you have like a switch . The switch uh uh{vocalsound} uh if you p press it then some electrical charge goes into the processor , that thinks over a Morse code , that's how you should see it . The Morse code goes to the amplifier , then uh the signal is sent totwo uh light bulbs . You have infrared and an interv um {vocalsound} uh how to say it ? Uh a light in indication , light that you know that it's functioning .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Uh here again ,that's my story about the different modes , if you do want to make remote uh universal , then the processor has to uh make up a different Morse code when some button is pressed . That makes it much more complex ,so we really need to have a look , do we want that or not . Uh I don't have any personal p uh preferences uh so far , except for uh the materials to be used uh light , that they are light .Project Manager: Okay . Okay .That was it ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} That was it .Project Manager: I'll get back to my thing then . Uh {disfmarker} Okay , back this up {disfmarker} to the screen . So I got some new information on theproject specifications are changing a little . Like you said uh teletext is not not very popular anymore because the uh the internet , nowadays people don't use the teletext anymore or hardly , so it can either{disfmarker} Well , I don't think we should remove the button , because there are always people who are using it .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: But I don't think it should be {vocalsound} very {disfmarker} itshould be one of the big buttons for example . Just put it somewhere or under second option or whatever . It's not important anymore . Um we're targeting young people now , because our um {disfmarker}{vocalsound} This is a new product and with this new product we want to appeal to younger people ,Marketing: Uh .Project Manager: which are {disfmarker} um the younger people were defined under forty.Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: I so I think it's {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Hmm .Project Manager: that's also good with the fashion and everything ,Marketing: BProject Manager: so yeah .Marketing: Yeah ,and they want to pay for itProject Manager: They want to pay for it , people are willing to spend money actually to buy a um remote that they like .Marketing: and uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: If they like the way itlooks , the way it functions , so they're actually gonna spend uh spend money on it .Marketing: With more {disfmarker} Where {disfmarker} with more technical specificationsProject Manager: Yeah .Marketing: in the{disfmarker}Project Manager: {gap} {vocalsound} see how far we can go with it anyway , soMarketing: Yeah .Project Manager: {disfmarker} And one thing that should be important is that the corporate l colour andslogan are recognisable , which is apparently {vocalsound} black and yellow , but {disfmarker} I'm not sure if we {disfmarker} I think we should keep the the logo in mind , because with colours you can uh have a lotof uh fashionable colours and everything on it , which suits everybody's taste . So {disfmarker} With that concept I started thinking , so why not just steal Nokia's idea and just make changeable covers for your{disfmarker}User Interface: Oh .Project Manager: I mean those cost hardly anything I think , and people could even spend extra money on buying a coverIndustrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: and so have anentire new remote control that they like to see . Or we can sh for example we can make a different {vocalsound} {disfmarker} a basic design . And sell the covers separately , for example . That's just a little marketingidea that could be applied , so you can p it appeals to really everyone . So you don't have to {disfmarker} I think you don't have to make entire remote controls . We make a basic one and manufacture this coverseparately .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: So that was that was my idea on what we could do to appeal this product to everyone . SoIndustrial Designer: Hmm .Project Manager: just {disfmarker} I'mnot sure if you came up with anything in the meantime , after making a presentation . Would you like to share ?Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: No , I think this is a good idea .Project Manager: Okay .IndustrialDesigner: But {disfmarker}Marketing: But {disfmarker} oh ?User Interface: Is it manageable ? Is it easy ?Industrial Designer: Go ahead .Marketing: Yeah , with with an L_C_D_ screen you can {disfmarker}ProjectManager: Oh yeah . I think we should lose the L_C_D_ screen ,Industrial Designer: Y Yes , I think so too .Project Manager: like you said . I think for example it's it's huge {disfmarker} I think the L_C_D_ is huge ,UserInterface: Yeah .Marketing: Why ? Nokia wProject Manager: it consumes batteries like hell .Marketing: Uh .Project Manager: I think it takes up a lot of a lot of power .User Interface: And it costs too much to fabricate,Project Manager: It costs a lot , I think .User Interface: so we're on a tight budget here .Industrial Designer: Okay , uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: What we could do , what could be possible , is maybe not anL_C_D_ screen but with a preview ,Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: but y I'm not sure if it's even possible {vocalsound} . For example , a little T_V_ guide .Industrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: Like you have alittle {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Hmm .Project Manager: just just a text only , not colour , just a little text thingIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: so you can use your remote as aT_V_ guide . I'm not sure it's even possible ,Industrial Designer: Hmm . I have to check that out ,Project Manager: but maybe okay , make it {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I'm not sure .Project Manager: Yeah , finda little compromise in that , but {disfmarker} What did I write down ?Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: I think the p yeah , the beep is a very simple thing to imple implement , just make a button on yourT_V_Industrial Designer: That must be possible .Project Manager: and just hit the button , it beeps somewhere . I think it's easy to implement ,Industrial Designer: Ja .Project Manager: we should go for that .IndustrialDesigner: I'm sorry ,Project Manager: Uh speech recognition .User Interface: And it's {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: whe where do you wanna hit the T_ {disfmarker} you wanna {vocalsound} {disfmarker} we wanta button on the television . {gap}Project Manager: I thin {vocalsound} Yeah , I mean where else should you put it ?Industrial Designer: In th okay , but that rules out a universal remote control .Project Manager: Yeah,Industrial Designer: Because that's not possible uh .Project Manager: but {vocalsound} how are you gonna use that if your {disfmarker} I mean if your remote control is lost , how are you gonna press {disfmarker}where are you gonna press the button ?Industrial Designer: Uh . Yeah . Exactly .User Interface: Maybe just a slap-on sticker with a button which sends out a small signal .Project Manager: A slap-on sticker . Oh , youmean as like a separate thing you can attach to your T_V_ .Marketing: Mm uh .Project Manager: Yeah , that could be possible .User Interface: Yeah , exactly .Project Manager: A little little box you can attach to yourT_V_ is fine then , okay .Industrial Designer: Okay , then uh I'd I'd like to know now if we want the uh universal remote control or not , because that's uh determines everything I'm gonna do .Project Manager: I thinkit's universal . I think we should go for universal ,Industrial Designer: If not {disfmarker}Project Manager: because apparently we're a separate company making separate c remote controls to sell to a lot of diverse"}
{"doc_id":"doc_43","qid":"","text":"Marketing: Did you get my email with the slides ? Ah . Tricky .Industrial Designer: I guess I have to change the pen otherwise . Will be completely different .Marketing: Dunno . Maybe they're supposed {disfmarker} thepen's supposed to go over the seats . Might be seat floor rather than person . Yeah , put it back .Industrial Designer: Yeah . And do you think {vocalsound} it's {gap} .Marketing: Yep {vocalsound} . Yeah .ProjectManager: {vocalsound} Okay .Marketing: Jo's making faces at me . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: So . Matthew is uh late again .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Probably an important man . Um . So well it is important for him to be here uh .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: He he he {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So what can you {disfmarker}{gap} ?Project Manager: You did work together didn't you ?Industrial Designer: Yeah we will {disfmarker} yeah , so I will be able to to summarize uh our meeting ,Project Manager: Yes .Industrial Designer: but still Ithink uh it would be in very important if the uh as um main designer . I think we can put on the {gap} here .Project Manager: Yes . Yes .Industrial Designer: Uh basically w yeah we we designed the two uh items.Project Manager: Mm . Um yesIndustrial Designer: Um , can we have a phone ,Project Manager: but w we {disfmarker} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: can someone {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yes, maybe we should phone him . Um well {disfmarker} Um ,Industrial Designer: it's really w well designed {vocalsound} .Marketing: Mm . Mm , object tracking . {vocalsound}Project Manager: when he is not here wewill just we just have to continue . Um so just for record I I will take uh notes again .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: And um well {vocalsound} first thing uh I was uh uh I got an emailfrom uh from my superior again that we really should stay within the budget of the uh twelve Euro and fifty cents .Industrial Designer: 'Kay .Project Manager: when you stay in it's good , when you don't stay in youhave to redesign . There is no {vocalsound} uh no negotiation uh {vocalsound} possible in this matter . So we have to consider that . {vocalsound} Good .Industrial Designer: Yep .Project Manager: Um so maybe Anna, you can have your presentation .Marketing: Well we can't {disfmarker} no {disfmarker} we can't do evaluation 'til we have a design .Project Manager: Okay Matthew . Nice uh you are here .Industrial Designer: Great.Project Manager: Great . Great . Oh ma maybe then you can start now with mm presenting your uh your designs .Industrial Designer: Yep . So I will start by the the basic one that uh fits into uh eight Euros actually ,right , seven eight Euros ,Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: and uh well first for both they have um a special shape , maybe the designer can uh explain better than me , but uh it's like a surf board .Marketing:Mm 'kay .Industrial Designer: And you you are supposed to surf to browse to surf T_V_ , maybe the web , and uh it's kind of interesting shape because um unconsciously people want to s to surf {vocalsound} whenthey see this stuff .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Or browse .Industrial Designer: And also it's not too far from um amobile .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: So people are used to that kind of shape ,User Interface: Mm .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: right . Don't take care too much aboutthe colour because w yeah we don't take {disfmarker}User Interface: Now we are supposed to give some oper offers right now .Industrial Designer: yeah . So here would be basically the the the infrared uh uhledMarketing: {vocalsound} Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Eye .User Interface: {vocalsound} I {disfmarker} yeah .Industrial Designer: yeah L_A_ L_A_ L_E_D_ ,User Interface: L_E_D_ .Industrial Designer: the on-offbutton , in red .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Here would be the volume . On the on the left ,Marketing: Oh yeah .Project Manager: Uh-huh .Industrial Designer: okay , so {gap}User Interface: Mm-hmm ,hmm .Project Manager: Yes .Industrial Designer: easy to turn on t and off . And um so this is a very cheap version so there are {disfmarker} maybe you can carry on uh Matthew .User Interface: Also {vocalsound} soyou have uh uh browsing the channels , actuallyMarketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: so you can go up and down the channels ,Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: uh , if you have a video or something you can forward ,back .Industrial Designer: How can you change from V_C_R_ to uh T_V_ , by the way ?User Interface: Oh {gap} no no no , this is a single {disfmarker} this this is a model with just the T_V_ one .Industrial Designer:Okay yeah . Yeah yeah .Project Manager: Ah , okay .User Interface: No no just sorry , this is a standard T_V_ one , we are not talking about that . So and then we have usually there twelve keys but we know that we relthat we have only ten digits .Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: The extra two are for uh having or giving an option for uh having more than one channel . And the other one is for the teletext or something you wantto browse through from that . Actually .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Okay soProject Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: it's it's t a very basic remote then , it's only {disfmarker}User Interface: It's a very basicminimal thingMarketing: Mm .Project Manager: Yeah . Yeah . Yeah .User Interface: which you can {disfmarker} which is which is also available in the market , actually that's what it {gap} {disfmarker} that it{disfmarker} {vocalsound} iIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: and would cost us to build it about eight Euros .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: Seven , eight , ei eight Euros.Project Manager: Exce except for the for the special shape , the surfing board , it has a quite a a conventional layout of buttons uh .User Interface: Yeah . Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: So this onemodelMarketing: Can I see ?User Interface: and uh {disfmarker} yeah . Sure .Marketing: Thanks . Okay I like the volume control , that's good .Industrial Designer: {gap} {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Th{vocalsound} this is a magic one but I know we don't want to talk about that ,Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: you know like {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: uh i i i it is a veryfuturistic , it's like uh it's like a brain machine interface and all this stuff we are thinking about in the future , it can come .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Uh-huh .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager:{vocalsound}Marketing: So it doesn't actually have buttons .User Interface: {vocalsound} So that uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker} then what we look tMarketing: Did you wanna see ?User Interface: yeah .ProjectManager: Mm-hmm . Yeah no you can carry on ,User Interface: This is a model ,Project Manager: I just look how it feels all .User Interface: yeah .Project Manager: Yes it really feels like like like a mobile phone.Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: Yep .Project Manager: Just I'm {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah actually , yeah .Project Manager: I really want to talk to it .Marketing: {vocalsound} Itwon't talk back . {vocalsound}Project Manager: But {gap} .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} So but but continue with your uhUser Interface: Uh so wellProject Manager: mm-hmm .UserInterface: then the this is the {vocalsound} a more a little uh smoothIndustrial Designer: {gap}User Interface: and it gives a lot of functionality , uh in this way , so all we have uh th you see there are only six keys ,but don't worry they are ma they are doing the job of twelve keys actually here .Marketing: Right .Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: And so they have more space actuallyMarketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: anduh it's easy to uh use this and uh you have um so this is a standard uh {gap} uh infrared eye , and then you have a power button , which l volume , what you have ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: and thenother than that you have uh channel up and down and uh f slow pause or s slow loIndustrial Designer: Play , pause .User Interface: yeah s pause or stop , and uh then uh you can uh you have a L_C_D_ display ,hereProject Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: and uh y this is a functional thing which can change like it's a toggle switch which could change the function say , y you press it {disfmarker}Project Manager: FromD_V_D_ player to television or something .Industrial Designer: Exactly yeah . To audio and to video on demand .User Interface: Yeah . I really can change it ,Project Manager: Yes .User Interface: so{disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: Instead of having many switches , y {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Yes and and and then you get feedback via the L_C_D_ yeah .UserInterface: The L_C_D_ can display what is that on that ,Industrial Designer: Yes .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: and uh well you can have a integrated microphone over here ,Industrial Designer: This is theorange button , the {vocalsound} microphone .User Interface: or in the button th here ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: so which can uh basically you want to do a speech recognition and uh that channel alot of information can be di displayed here directly on the um on your on your display .Industrial Designer: An yeah .User Interface: And here is a small L_E_D_ which is like blinking one ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: which tells you like uh are you running out of the battery , and which is can be useful for the locating as I was talking earlierProject Manager: Mm-hmm {vocalsound} .Industrial Designer: Yeah .UserInterface: okay . And uh well then we have a cover basically , basically you don't need much of the time this ,Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound} when you need you can use it , and this givesadditional functionality that tomorrow you want you can add a tactile thing to this coverProject Manager: Mm . YeahIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Crazy dis designer ,User Interface: you know .Industrial Designer:okay . {vocalsound}User Interface: Design enter {vocalsound} .Project Manager: but but but but uh i in there uh when this is closed , will it also uh cover up the L_C_D_ screen ?User Interface: Yeah .IndustrialDesigner: Yeah yeah yeah yeah .User Interface: Yeah . It's basically to do that .Project Manager: But but the L_C_D_ screen I mean is a very uh well an eye-attracting featureIndustrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface:{vocalsound}Project Manager: which shouldn't be shouldn't be {disfmarker}User Interface: Actually when you are watching the T_V_ , {vocalsound} when you are watching anything or listening to them , you hardlycare about what is getting displayed here ,Industrial Designer: Oh actually {disfmarker} well .Project Manager: {vocalsound} That th that's true .User Interface: you know , uh you want to uh {disfmarker} and thisgives a protection to the L_C_D_ actually , giving a cover to that actually . Gives a protectionProject Manager: Mm .User Interface: because when it falls down or something it it is it is is is it gives a protecProjectManager: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . Yes . Yes , more robust .User Interface: it's more robust that way . Uh yeah .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: Yes okay .User Interface: And you have very good chances{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: It's low weight . You have to see yeah yeah the the components we put inside is very low weight .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Yeah .IndustrialDesigner: So the the cost is actually a bit more , it's uh {vocalsound} it's it's sixteen Francs .User Interface: It {disfmarker} Sixteen Euros .Project Manager: {gap} Okay .Industrial Designer: Sixteen Euros sorry.Marketing: So it's well outside the budget then .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Then it's out of budget .Project Manager: But wIndustrial Designer: But the the main point we we talk about that withour uh manufacturer . And they say basically that the S_R_ system would be uh something like three Francs per item {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: soUser Interface: Three Euros .IndustrialDesigner: three Euros sorry . And um {disfmarker}Marketing: That's on top of the sixteen , or is it part of that ?Industrial Designer: No no no , part of that , yeah .User Interface: Part of that {gap} .Marketing: So thattakes it down to thirteen Euros without the speech recognition .Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Mm 'kay . Hmm . {gap}User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .Marketing: Mm-hmm .UserInterface: Well uh if you {disfmarker} we can have {disfmarker} if you have new more ideas we can add new more uh some more keys if you want to you know {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Well I think th th yeah we should {vocalsound} stick with uh a number of keysMarketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: because if we add too much thenUser Interface: YeahProject Manager: Mm-hmm{gap} .Industrial Designer: it's too {disfmarker}User Interface: it it should not be cluttering up everything .Marketing: What's this one on the side ?User Interface: Ah that's for the {disfmarker} it's kind of a L_E_D_ forindicating your batteryIndustrial Designer: Locati . Location .Marketing: Ah okay .User Interface: and as well as it's like a blinking oneMarketing: Mm-hmm . Mm 'kay .User Interface: you knowIndustrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: you can keep it aside .Marketing: I like the shape of them , I do like the the size and the the shape .Project Manager: Well well {disfmarker} Mm .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Be before tatalking about the money and what's possible and what is not possible , maybe Anna you can uh give our uh give us your um {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm . Okay . And maybe we run the evaluation on both of theproducts , both of these two .Project Manager: Yes . Evalua evaluation and also the evaluation criteria , so what what is important to look at .Marketing: Okay . {vocalsound} Basically this is what we've talked aboutalready , um , from the marketing point of view .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: We just wanna make sure that we've taken into account {disfmarker}Project Manager: WellMarketing: Yep .Project Manager:just do it quickly if if we al already {gap} .Marketing: So it's just a shortlist of criteria on um the things that we've identified as being important to selling the product .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Um we justgo through these and rate them as a group and then at the end we'll make an evaluation based on that , so just average the score of those items , so {disfmarker} {vocalsound} These are the things we identified asbeing important . Um {gap} the three things were look and feel , innovation and ease of use , were the three important componentsProject Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: um appealing to the correct demographic sousing those things in the right way to appeal to our demographic . And then goin following the company motto , following the fashion trends and putting that into the product as well . So well do you wanna go throughand put through those on the the two products now or do we wanna discuss them further and then evaluate them ?Project Manager: Um , n no why not why not discuss uh discuss it now , {gap} {disfmarker}Marketing:Okay . So f just go through onto the whiteboard I guess . Not sure how this is gonna come out . So the first one was really {vocalsound} very far below budget , would you want to take the price down of the endproduct according to that or just have the high profit on it ? 'Cause if we're only going to make it for eight Euros then we have a {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm , well my my personal view is uh w when when thisone is eight Euros we must think how can we improve it .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: And then {disfmarker} I mean w w w you must just see it {vocalsound} {disfmarker} we can still spend this four and ahalf EuroMarketing: Mm-hmm . Yep .Project Manager: and to r because th th th the the selling price is already prite fik uh uh quite fixed on twenty five EurosIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Mm-hmm .ProjectManager: so we just have to offer as much as as {disfmarker} well value for the for the customer uh he can have for twenty five Euro .Industrial Designer: Functionality .Marketing: Okay so look and feel , innovation{disfmarker} {gap}User Interface: And now it {gap} easy to use .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Easy to use .Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: {gap} target .Marketing: Mm-hmm . And trends .Oh , you following the idea of using the um removable covers on these ? Is that part of both of them or ?Project Manager: Um well w w we can still discuss that .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: So um , and togetherwith evaluating this uh we we might come with new ideasMarketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: I mean adding things or uh removing uh of options because they are too expensive ,Marketing: Mm-hmm .ProjectManager: but um I've received uh a framework which we can do this . I mean did you have this this Excel sheet ?Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: No .User Interface: No .Marketing: No .Project Manager: Nookay , this is these are the the the latest prices of our production uh uh production unit for several components ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: so we can uh see whether the the price is is within thetwelve Euro uh fifty cents uh .Marketing: Mm-hmm . Okay .Project Manager: So maybe we can start with this , uh , calling this one . {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay . Yep . So it's the pink .Project Manager: Th th this isthe first design .Marketing: And the other one's green . Okay , soProject Manager: Yes .Marketing: look and feel ? Where um one is {vocalsound} I've broken the pen again . SProject Manager: Uh there is another pen.Marketing: yeah . Get that one . Um w {vocalsound} one's bad and seven's the best . Sorry , one's true and seven's false . One's the best .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: So on a scale of one to seven ?ProjectManager: 'Kay . Okay . So . Look and feel . Well you already feel that uh pretty much I think {vocalsound} .User Interface: {vocalsound} {gap}Project Manager: In i in my opinion purely feel is is is very good , is verygood in your hand ,Marketing: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm , yeah . Mm-hmm .Project Manager: so I I I would consider two or or may maybe even one for feel .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: But that's just half , weshould also consider look ,Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: and then i it looks quite conventional .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: Don't you agree ?User Interface: Mm yeah .Marketing: On the scale u it'sbetween functional and fancy basically we're looking at ,Project Manager: So maybe two . Hmm . Hmm . Ma ma ma ma maybe say say fiveMarketing: so {disfmarker}Project Manager: I {disfmarker} It's my opinion ,but I don't know what whatUser Interface: Well I will give it maybe {disfmarker} we have anyways {disfmarker} the way we have designed it's like the surf as you say {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm-hmm .IndustrialDesigner: Yeah .User Interface: you know . It {disfmarker} though the look is fine but uh still I will give four in that caseIndustrial Designer: Yeah . Four maybe .User Interface: you know .Marketing: Four ? Okay.Project Manager: Four , four .User Interface: Four yeahProject Manager: Now we th thUser Interface: that {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: then we settle on four .User Interface: Yeah . I will giyeah .Marketing: {gap}Project Manager: 'Kay . Can you maybe fix the other {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Uh . Yeah .Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: If you press like this not like this {gap} then you{disfmarker}Marketing: No that's the {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {gap}User Interface: No .Marketing: ink's dried .User Interface: C can you get the batteries ? No no the battery has fallen down ,Marketing:Battery's low , isn't it the ink ?User Interface: that's iMarketing: The b that's the that that one ?User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: {gap} battery there .Industrial Designer: But {disfmarker}User Interface: No no it's notthat , it's how to close a battery .Industrial Designer: Okay .User Interface: Okay ? Now it should be {gap} .Marketing: Mm . No I think it's lost a battery .Project Manager: Mm , try it , just try it .Marketing: No it's{disfmarker} It would still writeProject Manager: Oh it will notMarketing: but it wouldn't pick it up with the sensors .Project Manager: ri mm , mm .User Interface: Is there another battery there ? Oh yeah .Marketing:"}
{"doc_id":"doc_44","qid":"","text":"The Chair (Hon. Anthony Rota (NipissingTimiskaming, Lib.)): I call the meeting to order. Welcome to the seventh meeting of the Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic. Please note that today's proceedings willbe televised in the same way as a typical sitting of the House. We will proceed to ministerial announcements. I understand that there are no ministerial announcements. That's confirmed. We will now proceed topresenting petitions for a period not exceeding 15minutes. I would like to remind members that any petition presented during a meeting of the special committee must have already been certified by the clerk ofpetitions. Once the petition is presented, the member is asked to bring it here to the Table. Mr.Manly is the first one to be allowed to present a petition.Mr. Paul Manly (NanaimoLadysmith, GP): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Irise today to present a petition that has many signatures from constituents in NanaimoLadysmith. They're calling for a ban on cosmetic testing using animals. They want us to follow the European Union model, underwhich the use of animals in cosmetic testing has been banned. Moving forward, they're calling for a ban on the sale and manufacture of animal-tested cosmetics and their ingredients in Canada.The Chair: Mr. Poilievre isnext.Hon. Pierre Poilievre (Carleton, CPC): Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I rise today to table e-petition 2466, initiated by a constituent of mine in Stittsville, a beautiful west Ottawa community. The petition hascollected 827 signatures from every province and territory. It was collected by Cara, a mother from my riding who suffered an unthinkable tragedy. Her 11-year-old son Joshua drowned in a boating accident on the St.Lawrence River at Rockport, Ontario. Joshua was not wearing a life jacket. Worse, Cara's family had to wait 48 days to recover Joshua's body. Cara is now working tirelessly to amend the small vessel regulations tomake it mandatory for children under the age of 14 to wear a life jacket or PFD while they are passengers in or drivers of small vessels covered under parts 2, 3, and 4 of the regulations. I support Cara's efforts, and I'mhonoured to table this petition on her behalf.The Chair: Seeing no further petitions to be presented, we'll continue, and we will now proceed to the questioning of ministers. Please note that we will suspend theproceedings every 45minutes to allow employees who provide support for the sitting to replace each other safely. Go ahead, Mr. Scheer.Hon. Andrew Scheer (Leader of the Opposition): It was revealed yesterday thatthis government's policy was to ignore fraud. The Prime Minister's reaction was to act as if everything was normal. In fact, we've learned that over 200,000cases of suspected fraud have been identified in the benefitapplications. The Prime Minister is failing our future generations. Our children and grandchildren are going to pay back billions of dollars that he's borrowing to pay tax cheats. Will the Prime Minister protect taxpayersand immediately begin a review of these 200,000cases of suspected fraud?Right Hon. Justin Trudeau (Prime Minister): Our priority was to get money out quickly to all Canadians who needed it, and that's exactly whatwe've done. Millions of Canadians have received the money they so desperately needed. Having said that, I want to make it very clear, Mr.Chair: Fraud is unacceptable. We have measures in place to detect fraud. Allfraudsters will be required to pay back the money they fraudulently received from the government. We're going to make sure that this is done in the coming months.Hon. Andrew Scheer: Mr. Chair, Conservatives agreethat those who need help should get it, and no one is arguing that they shouldn't, but reports indicate that the Liberals have ordered public servants to turn a blind eye to 200,000 cases of suspected fraud. It's a simplequestion: Yes or no, did the government instruct any government department to ignore red flags or warnings of fraudulent cases?Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, the priority in this situation was getting money outto the millions of Canadians who needed it as quickly as possible, but of course fraud is unacceptable. That's why we have put safeguards in place to ensure that anyone who received that money fraudulently will haveto repay it.Hon. Andrew Scheer: It's a yes-or-no question, Mr. Chair. Did the government give any kind of instruction to public servants in any department to ignore red flags or warnings of fraudulent cases, yes orno?Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: The instruction to government officials was to get money out to those who needed it as quickly as possible. We have put measures in place to detect fraud. People who got this moneyfraudulently will have to repay.Hon. Andrew Scheer: Mr. Chair, it is clear that he can't answer a yes-or-no question, so we can all assume what the answer must be. In other situations, the government is saying no topeople. It's letting so many Canadians down. Small business owners who don't happen to have a CRA payroll number or a business account are ineligible for the government supports. Individuals, owner-operators, andthose who are earning $1 more than $1,000 are being told that they don't qualify for the emergency response benefits. Meanwhile, fraudsters are getting them. Does the Prime Minister think it's fair to tell people whoare following all the rules no, while telling government officials to allow fraudulent cases to be processed?Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, Canadians well know that this is an unprecedented situation, one in whichwe had to get help to as many Canadians as possible as quickly as possible. That is exactly what we did. We continue to work very hard to fill gaps for people who should get money but haven't been able to, and, as Isaid, we have strong measures to counter fraud. Anyone who got this money fraudulently will have to repay it.Hon. Andrew Scheer: Mr. Chair, when these programs were first designed, the Prime Minister said that heacknowledged that there were problems and that they would be fixed later. Well, here we are in May, and hundreds of thousands of Canadians are being told no for purely technical and bureaucratic reasons. Will thePrime Minister make the simple changes to allow business owners who don't happen to have a business bank account, who don't happen to have a CRA payroll number and individuals who are ineligible for theemergency response benefit because they've been paid by family members through dividends to qualify, or is he going to continue to let hundreds of thousands of Canadians down during this pandemic?Right Hon.Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, from the beginning of this pandemic, we moved extremely rapidly to get help and support to millions of Canadians. That was the priority, and that's what we've been doing for the past twomonths. As we've said, we will continue to tweak and improve the programs to make sure that more people who need help will get it. We are working the best we can, as fast as we can, to help those millions ofCanadians who need support.The Chair: You have time for about a 15-second question, Mr. Scheer.Hon. Andrew Scheer: Mr. Chair, the Prime Minister indicated that he would support Taiwan's inclusion in the WHO onlyas a non-state observer. Of course, that designation does not exist. Participants of the WHO are either states or NGOs. Will the Prime Minister support Taiwan's participation as a state observer?The Chair: The RightHonourable Prime Minister has 15 seconds or less, please.Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, we will continue with our one China policy, but we have always advocated Taiwan's meaningful inclusion in internationalbodies where it makes sense to do so, and that includes at the WHO.The Chair: Mr.Blanchet now has the floor.Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet (BeloeilChambly, BQ): Thank you very much, Mr.Chair. On Friday, students inQuebec and Canada will be able to apply for the Canada emergency student benefit, which is a good thing. This program was necessary, particularly because the number of students who won't be able to get back theirjobs from last year is much higher than the number of jobs that might be available to these young people. There are also issues of duration. We don't know how long these jobs will remain unavailable. People talkedabout a risk to being in the labour market and meeting the needs of the labour market. On April29, the Deputy Prime Minister made a formal commitment to ensure that these programs are accompanied by workincentives for youth and all CESB recipients. So that everyone knows what they're getting into, I'd like to know whether the employment incentives that will accompany the Canada emergency response benefit will beknown by Friday.Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: I thank the hon. member for understanding the importance of supporting students who, for the most part, won't be able to get the summer jobs they were counting on.Young people don't just want to earn money; they also want to gain work experience. That's why we're setting up programs, including Canada summer jobs, but also another program with 76,000new jobs for youngpeople in important sectors, so that young people can also get jobs. We will continue to work with youth and employers to ensure that gaps in the labour market are addressed, while ensuring that youth arewell-supported.Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet: That's very interesting, but it doesn't answer my question at all. People in the fishing, tourism and agricultural sectors, as well as municipalities and, from the very beginning,of course, the Government of Quebec, more generally, have expressed fears that job gains will cause people to lose their benefits and discourage them from going to work. The only way to avoid that is to ensure thatpeople keep more money as they work more. That is the principle. In fact, we propose that over the $1,000no-penalty limit, half of the earnings be exempt from penalty. Is this something that could be considered?Since it's been two weeks since the commitment was made and it's urgent, can we act now? The emergency shouldn't last eight months.Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr.Chair, young people need money, but they alsoneed work experience. This is an unprecedented situation, which is why we're working with seasonal industries and the different regions to make sure they have a sufficient workforce in their situation. Students can bepart of it, but at the same time we must provide the necessary support for those who can't find a job. That's why we continue to work with the industries involved to ensure that they have a sufficient workforce while wesupport students.Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet: Unfortunately, the spirit of it doesn't seem to have been understood. I doubt that, even in the best-case scenario, the government will be able to get all the jobs needed in atimely manner for all these young people to decide to go ahead. So, first of all, there will be a shortage of jobs. Second, people aren't crazy. If they earn less by working than they earn by not working, all the good faithin the world won't solve the problem. Can we make sure that people keep more money in their pockets as they work more? I think we can have a clear answer, given the timeframe. People are going to start registeringfor the program on Friday. The principles are good, but a clear answer would be good too.Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Beginning Friday, students will be able to apply for the Canada emergency student benefit. Whenthey apply, they'll all be directed to a job bank that we've set up to make sure they know what jobs are available to get not only the money they need, but also the experience they need for their future, while helpingour society in this crisis. I know we're going to be able to count on young people.The Chair: We'll now go to Mr. Singh.Mr. Jagmeet Singh (Burnaby South, NDP): Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, one of themost devastating outcomes of this COVID-19 crisis has been the impact on seniors. Eighty per cent or more of the deaths during COVID-19 have been seniors living in long-term care homes. The military had to becalled in. Out of 14 countries, Canada has been deemed the worst in its care of seniors. Despite all this, the Prime Minister has said recently that he doesn't feel it's the federal government's responsibility to find asolution. How can he say to families reeling with loss that it's not the federal government's responsibility to play a role in solving this problem?Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, perhaps the fact that the NDP nolonger has many seats in Quebec has caused it to forget the importance of respecting the Constitution and the areas of jurisdiction of provincial versus federal governments. We will be there to work with the provincesas they deal with challenges in their long-term care facilities. We are there as a partner, but we, on this side of the House, will always respect the jurisdiction of the provinces and be there to support them in fulfillingthose responsibilities.Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Everyone across Canada has just heard this Prime Minister double down on the idea that he doesn't feel it's his responsibility, despite the fact that the Canadian military had togo into long-term care homes. There is a role that the federal government can play. Both Liberal and Conservative federal governments have been consistently, for decades, cutting transfers to health care. They canincrease those transfers to ensure long-term care is adequately funded. We could also ensure that there's a national care guarantee, working with provinces to ensure that we are meeting the best standards. We couldincrease workers' pay. We could ensure that there's no more profiting off the backs of seniors when it comes to long-term care. Will the Prime Minister commit to some of these care guarantees?Right Hon. JustinTrudeau: It will come as exactly no surprise to the vast majority of Canadians that the Liberal Party will always stand up for the Constitution of Canada. We respect the Constitution. We respect areas of provincialjurisdiction. As I have said from the very beginning of this crisis, we will be there to help the provinces as they manage the challenges they're facing. The federal government does have a role to play, and it is a role tosupport the provinces in doing the things they need to do during this unprecedented time. We will continue to be there.Mr. Jagmeet Singh: I am glad to hear the Prime Minister is no longer trying to hide behindjurisdiction. We know that in long-term care homes, the for-profit long-term care homes have been the site of the worst conditions, where the greatest number of seniors have died. Will the Prime Minister join us incommitting to remove profit from the long-term care system? Vulnerable seniors should not be subject to the profits of a company willing to cut services, staffing and quality of care instead of ensuring that seniors getthe best care possible.Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: I think it has become clear for all Canadians that we need to improve the care offered to our seniors right across the country. We cannot look at these numbers we areseeing and these tragedies hitting so many families and not want to see us as a country do better. That is why we of course recognize that we will work with other orders of government, particularly the provinces inwhose jurisdiction this area rests primarily, to support answering these questions for the long term on how we improve the way Canada supports our elders. This is something really important that we will be therefor.Mr. Jagmeet Singh: At the CHSLD Herron in Dorval, 31seniors died in one month. The residents were left without food, dehydrated and without care, and those with COVID-19 symptoms were not isolated from theothers. Families pay between $3,000 and $10,000 a month for their loved ones to be at the centre. How can the Prime Minister think that he doesn't have a role to play in finding a solution to this devastatingproblem?Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr.Chair, all Quebeckers and even all Canadians were stunned to learn of the tragedy at the Dorval CHSLD. We were very happy, as citizens, when the Government of Quebecreacted firmly and asked many questions in connection with this situation. We will support the Government of Quebec in its efforts to find answers and, most importantly, to ensure that, in the long term, the country willbetter support seniors in all regions.The Chair: We'll continue with Mr.Poilievre.Hon. Pierre Poilievre: Mr. Chair, how many emergency response benefit cheques have been sent to people whose applications have beenflagged as fraudulent?Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos (President of the Treasury Board): Thank you, Mr.Chair. I'd like to start by quickly saying that a total of 7.7million Canadians have received the Canada emergency responsebenefit, which is absolutely essential forHon. Pierre Poilievre: How many emergency response benefits have been sent out to people whose applications have been flagged as fraudulent?Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos: Mr.Chair,I see that the pace will allow me to give a little bit of information for each question. As we said at the outset, there will be mechanismsThe Chair: Mr.Poilievre has the floor.Hon. Pierre Poilievre: How many?Hon.Jean-Yves Duclos: We're working very hard.Hon. Pierre Poilievre: How many?Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos: We're working very hard to ensure the integrity of the mechanism while at the same time taking important steps tohelp Canadians.Hon. Pierre Poilievre: How many emergency response benefit cheques have been sent to people whose applications have been flagged as fraudulent?Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos: A total of 7.7millionCanadians have received the Canada emergency response benefit, and the agency is ensuring the integrity of the system.Hon. Pierre Poilievre: He's now claiming that it's all 7.7 million? That's crazy. The department isreported to have given out 200,000. Is 200,000 the correct number of cheques that have been sent out to people whose applications have been red-flagged as fraudulent, yes or no?Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos: Mr.Chair,I'm pleased to use the opportunity given to me by the hon. member to make the following clarifications. I thank him for it. First, approximately 7.7million Canadians have received at least one payment. Second, almost11million payments have been made.Hon. Pierre Poilievre: How many prisoners have received a Canada emergency response benefit cheque?Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos: This allows me to go even further and thank thehon. member again. Some 7.7million Canadians have received emergency assistance in an emergency situationThe Chair: Mr.Poilievre has the floor.Hon. Pierre Poilievre: So now he's claiming that 7 million Canadiansare in jail? The question was this: How many prisoners have received a benefit cheque?Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos: Mr.Chair, jokes can be made about the plight of Canadians who are suffering tremendously in this crisis,but I'm not here to makeThe Chair: Mr.Poilievre has the floor.Hon. Pierre Poilievre: Even the CBC is saying that prisoners are receiving the cheque. They can't have lost their jobs. They were already in prison. It's asimple question: How many prisoners have received the cheques?Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos: I'd like to remind hon. members that we're talking about an extremely serious situation, a situation that has called into questionpeople's ability to make ends meet, a situation that required emergency measures. We're going to continue to do the job that Canadians expect.Hon. Pierre Poilievre: The question was, how many prisoners havereceived the cheques?Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos: I've already explained to the hon. memberand I'm pleased to remind himthat this benefit is an emergency measure.Hon. Pierre Poilievre: The Auditor General says that he'sdropping half of his audits because the government refuses to provide him with funding. If the government has enough money to send 200,000 fraudulent applicants emergency cheques, why won't the government givethe Auditor General the funding he requested?Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos: I thank the hon. member. It gives me the opportunity, in this emergency situation, to talk about the role of institutions, including that of the AuditorGeneral, which we will continue to support because it helps us do things right.Hon. Pierre Poilievre: Then what does the Auditor General have to do to get the money to do his audits? Does he have to file a bunch offraudulent applications for an emergency response benefit?Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos: Mr.Chair, because I know the hon. member well enough, I'm sure that he isn't givingand doesn't want to givethe impression that theAuditor General wants to commit fraud to do his job properly.Hon. Pierre Poilievre: I agree, and that's why he should get the money he needs to do his job. He did twice as many audits under the previous governmentas he is doing now, but he doesn't have the money to do the audits he needs to do to keep an eye on this government's extraordinary spending. Yes or no, will the government give the Auditor General the funding he"}
{"doc_id":"doc_45","qid":"","text":"Grad E: I guess .Grad A: OK , we 're on . So just make sure that th your wireless mike is on , if you 're wearing a wireless .Grad E: Check one . Check one .Grad A: And you should be able to see which one {disfmarker}which one you 're on by , uh , watching the little bars change .Grad B: So , which is my bar ? Mah ! Number one .Grad A: Yep .Grad E: Sibilance . Sibilance .Grad A: So , actually , if you guys wanna go ahead and readdigits now , as long as you 've signed the consent form , that 's alright .Grad E: Are we supposed to read digits at the same time ?Grad A: No . No .Grad E: Oh , OK .Grad A: Each individually . We 're talking about doingall at the same time but I think cognitively that would be really difficult . {vocalsound} To try to read them while everyone else is .Grad E: Everyone would need extreme focus .Grad A: So , when you 're reading thedigit strings , the first thing to do is just say which transcript you 're on .Professor C: Other way . We m We may wind up with ver We {disfmarker} we may need versions of all this garbage .Grad B: For our stuff . Yeah.Professor C: Yeah .Grad A: Um . So the first thing you 'd wanna do is just say which transcript you 're on .Professor C: Yeah .Grad A: So . You can see the transcript ? There 's two large number strings on the digits ?So you would just read that one . And then you read each line with a small pause between the lines . And the pause is just so the person transcribing it can tell where one line ends and the other begins . And I 'll give{disfmarker} I 'll read the digit strings first , so can see how that goes . Um . Again , I 'm not sure how much I should talk about {pause} stuff before everyone 's here .Professor C: Mmm . Well , we have one morecoming .Grad A: OK . Well , why don't I go ahead and read digit strings and then we can go on from there .Professor C: OK . Well , we can start doing it .Grad A: Thanks . So , uh , just also a note on wearing themicrophones . All of you look like you 're doing it reasonably correctly , but you want it about two thumb widths away from your mouth , and then , at the corner . And that 's so that you minimize breath sounds , sothat when you 're breathing , you don't breathe into the mike . Um . Yeah , that 's good . And uh {disfmarker} So , everyone needs to fill out , only once , the speaker form and the consent form . And the short form{disfmarker} I mean , you should read the consent form , but uh , the thing to notice is that we will give you an opportunity to edit a all the transcripts . So , if you say things and you don't want them to be released tothe general public , which , these will be available at some point to anyone who wants them , uh , you 'll be given an opportunity by email , uh , to bleep out any portions you don't like . Um . On the speaker form justfill out as much of the information as you can . If you 're not exactly sure about the region , we 're not exactly sure either . So , don't worry too much about it . The {disfmarker} It 's just self rating . Um . And I thinkthat 's about it . I mean , should I {disfmarker} Do you want me to talk at all about why we 're doing this and what this project is ?Professor C: Um , yeah .Grad A: or {disfmarker} ?Professor C: No . There was{disfmarker} there was {disfmarker} Let 's see . Oh {disfmarker}Grad E: Does Nancy know that we 're meeting in here ?Grad B: I sent an email .Professor C: She got an emai she was notified .Grad E: Oh yeah , shegot an e Yeah , yeah .Professor C: Whether she knows {vocalsound} is another question . Um . So are the people going to be identified by name ?Grad A: Well , what we 're gonna {disfmarker} we 'll anonymize it in thetranscript . Um , but not in the audio .Professor C: Right .Grad A: So theProfessor C: OK . So , then in terms of people worrying about , uh , excising things from the transcript , it 's unlikely . Since it {disfmarker} itdoes isn't attributed . Oh , I see , but the a but the {disfmarker} but the {disfmarker}Grad A: Right , so if I said , \" Oh , hi Jerry , how are you ? \" , we 're not gonna go through and cancel out the \" Jerry \"s .Professor C:Yeah . Sure .Grad A: Um , so we will go through and , in the speaker ID tags there 'll be , you know , M - one O seven , M - one O eight .Professor C: Right .Grad A: Um , but uh ,Professor C: Right .Grad A: um , it w uh, I don't know a good way of doing it on the audio , and still have people who are doing discourse research be able to use the data .Professor C: OK . Mm - hmm . No , I {disfmarker} I wasn't complaining ,Grad A: Yep.Professor C: I just wanted to understand .Grad A: Right .Professor C: OK .Grad B: Well , we can make up aliases for each of us .Grad A: Yeah , I mean , whatever you wanna do is fine ,Professor C: Right .Grad F: OK.Grad A: but we find that {disfmarker} We want the meeting to be as natural as possible . So , we 're trying to do real meetings .Professor C: OK .Grad A: And so we don't wanna have to do aliasesProfessor C: Right.Grad A: and we don't want people to be editing what they say .Grad B: Right .Grad A: So I think that it 's better just as a pro post - process to edit out every time you bash Microsoft .Professor C: Right .Grad B: Mm -hmm .Grad A: You know ?Professor C: Right . Um , OK . So why don't you tell us brieflyGrad A: OK . So thProfessor C: your {disfmarker} give {disfmarker} give your e normal schpiel .Grad A: Um . So this is{disfmarker} The project is called Meeting Recorder and there are lots of different aspects of the project . Um . So my particular interest is in the PDA of the future . This is a mock - up of one . Yes , we do believe thePDA of the future will be made of wood . Um . {comment} The idea is that you 'd be able to put a PDA at the table at an impromptu meeting , and record it , and then be able to do querying and retrieval later on , onthe meeting . So that 's my particular interest , is a portable device to do m uh , information retrieval on meetings . Other people are interested in other aspects of meetings . Um . So the first step on that , in any ofthese , is to collect some data . And so what we wanted is a room that 's instrumented with both the table top microphones , and these are very high quality pressure zone mikes , as well as the close talking mikes .What the close talk ng talking mikes gives us is some ground truth , gives us , um , high quality audio , um , especially for people who aren't interested in the acoustic parts of this corpus . So , for people who are moreinterested in language , we didn't want to penalize them by having only the far field mikes available . And then also , um , it 's a very , very hard task in terms of speech recognition . Um . And so , uh , on the far fieldmikes we can expect very low recognition results . So we wanted the near field mikes to at least isolate the difference between the two . So that 's why we 're recording in parallel with the close talking and the far fieldat the same time . And then , all these channels are recorded simultaneously and framed synchronously so that you can also do things like , um , beam - forming on all the microphones and do research like that . Ourintention is to release this data to the public , um , probably through f through a body like the LDC . And , uh , just make it as a generally available corpus . Um . {vocalsound} There 's other work going on in meetingrecording . So , we 're {disfmarker} we 're working with SRI , with UW , Um . NIST has started an effort which will include video . We 're not including video , obviously . And uh {disfmarker} and then also , um , asmall amount of assistance from IBM . Is also involved . Um . Oh , and the digit strings , this is just a more constrained task . Um . So because the general environment is so challenging , we decided to {disfmarker} todo at least one set of digit strings to give ourselves something easier . And it 's exactly the same digit strings as in TI - digits , which is a common connected digits corpus . So we 'll have some , um , comparison to beable to be made .Professor C: OK .Grad A: Anything else ?Professor C: No .Grad A: OK , so when the l last person comes in , just have them wear a wireless . It should be on already . Um . Either one of those . And uh ,read the digit strings and {disfmarker} and fill out the forms . So , the most important form is the consent form , so just be s be sure everyone signs that , if they consent .Grad B: I 'm sure it 's pretty usual formeetings that people come late ,Grad A: Yeah .Grad B: so you will have to leave what you set .Grad A: Right . And uh , just give me a call , which , my number 's up there when your meeting is over .Professor C: Yep.Grad A: And {disfmarker} I 'm going to leave the mike here but it 's n {nonvocalsound} Uh , but I 'm not gonna be on so don't have them use this one . It 'll just be sitting here .Grad B: Input ? Yeah . There we go.Professor C: By the way , Adam , we will be using the , uh , screen as well .Grad B: Yep .Professor C: So , you know . Wow ! Organization . So you guys who got email about this {pause} oh f uh , Friday or somethingabout what we 're up to .Grad E: No .Grad F: No .Grad B: I got it .Grad E: What was the nature of the email ?Professor C: Oh , this was about {pause} um , inferring intentions from features in context , and the words ,like \" s go to see \" , or \" visit \" , or someGrad B: Wel - we I {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker}Professor C: You didn't get it ?Grad E: I don't think I did .Professor C: I guess these g have gotbetter filters . Cuz I sent it to everybody . You just blew it off .Grad E: Ah .Professor C: OK .Grad B: It 's really simple though . So this is the idea . Um . We could pursue , um , if we thought it 's {disfmarker} it 's worthit but , uh , I think we {disfmarker} we will agree on that , um , to come up with a {disfmarker} with a sort of very , very first crude prototype , and do some implementation work , and do some {disfmarker} someresearch , and some modeling . So the idea is if you want to go somewhere , um , and focus on that object down {disfmarker} Oh , I can actually walk with this . This is nice . down here . That 's the Powder - Tower .Now , um , {vocalsound} we found in our , uh , data and from experiments , that there 's three things you can do . Um , you can walk this way , and come really , really close to it . And touch it . But you cannot enter ordo anything else . Unless you 're interested in rock climbing , it won't do you no good standing there . It 's just a dark alley . But you can touch it . If you want to actually go up or into the tower , you have to go this way, and then through some buildings and up some stairs and so forth . If you actually want to see the tower , and that 's what actually most people want to do , is just have a good look of it , take a picture for the family ,{comment} you have to go this way , and go up here . And there you have a vre really view {disfmarker} It exploded , the {disfmarker} during the Thirty years - war . Really uh , interesting sight . And um , these uh{disfmarker} these lines are , um , paths ,Grad E: Mmm .Grad B: or so That 's ab er , i the street network of our geographic information system . And you can tell that we deliberately cut out this part . Becauseotherwise we couldn't get our GIS system to take {disfmarker} to lead people this way . It would always use the closest point to the object , and then the tourists would be faced , you know , in front of a wall , but itwould do them absolutely no good . So , {vocalsound} what we found interesting is , first of all , intentions differ . Maybe you want to enter a building . Maybe you want to see it , take a picture of it . Or maybe youactually want to come as close as possible to the building . For whatever reason that may be .Grad E: What 's it {disfmarker} what 's it made out of ?Grad B: Um , r red limestone .Grad E: So maybe you would wannatouch it .Grad B: Yeah , maybe you would want to touch it . Um . Okay , I {disfmarker} This , um {disfmarker} These intentions , we {disfmarker} w w we could , if we want to , call it the {disfmarker} the Vista mode ,where we just want to {disfmarker} eh {disfmarker} s get the overview or look at it , the Enter mode , and the , well , Tango mode . I always come up with {disfmarker} with silly names . So this \" Tango \" means ,literally translated , \" to touch \" . So {disfmarker} But sometimes the {disfmarker} the Tango mode is really relevant in the {disfmarker} in the sense that , um , if you want to , uh {disfmarker} If you don't have theintention of entering your building , but you know that something is really close to it , and you just want to approach it , or get to that building . Consider , for example , the Post Office in Chicago , a building so largethat it has its own zip code . So the entrance could be miles away from the closest point . So sometimes it m m m makes sense maybe to d to distinguish there . So , um , I 've looked , uh , through twenty some{disfmarker} Uh , I didn't look through all the data . um , and there {disfmarker} there 's uh , a lot more different ways in people {disfmarker} uh , the ways people phrase how to g get {disfmarker} if they want to getto a certain place . And sometimes here it 's b it 's a little bit more obvious {disfmarker} Um . {vocalsound} Maybe I should go back a couple of steps and go through the {disfmarker}Professor C: No , OK come in , sitdown . If you grab yourself a microphone .Grad B: You need to sign some stuff and read some digits .Professor C: Well , you can sign afterwards .Grad B: O or later .Grad E: You have to al also have to read some digits.Professor C: Afterwards .Grad D: OK . {comment} OK . Afterwards is fine .Grad B: They are uncomfortable . Mm - hmm .Grad D: Really small ? OK . I see . OK .Grad B: Yep .Grad D: Thank you .Grad B: OK , but thatwas our idea .Professor C: And it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it it also has to be switched on , Nance .Grad B: Is {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think {disfmarker}Grad E: No , that one 's already on , Ithought he said .Professor C: It 's on ? OK , good .Grad D: OK . It 's on .Grad E: Yeah .Grad B: OK . That was the idea . Um , people , when they w when they want to go to a building , sometimes they just want to lookat it . Sometimes they want to enter it . And sometimes they want to get really close to it . That 's something we found . It 's just a truism . And the places where you will lead them for these intentions are sometimes exin incredibly different . I {disfmarker} I gave an example where the point where you end up if you want to look at it is completely different from where {disfmarker} if you want to enter it . So , this is sort of how peoplemay , uh {disfmarker} may phrase those requests to a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a mock - up system at least that 's the way they did it . And we get tons of {disfmarker} of these \" how do I get to \" , \" I want to goto \" , but also , \" give me directions to \" , and \" I would like to see \" . And um , what we can sort of do , if we look closer a closer at the {disfmarker} the data {disfmarker} That was the wrong one . um , we can look atsome factors that may make a difference . First of all , very important , and um , that {disfmarker} I 've completely forgot that when we talked . This is of course a crucial factor , \" what type of object is it ? \" So , somebuildings you just don't want to take pictures of . Or very rarely . But you usually want to enter them . Some objects are more picturesque , and you {disfmarker} more f more highly photographed . Then of course the{disfmarker} the actual phrases may give us some idea of what the person wants . Um . Sometimes I found in the {disfmarker} Uh , looking at the data , in a superficial way , I found some s sort of modifiers that{disfmarker} that m may also give us a hint , um , \" I 'm trying to get to \" Nuh ? \" I need to get to \" . Sort of hints to the fact that you 're not really sightseeing and {disfmarker} and just f there for pleasure and soforth and so on . And this leads us straight to the context which also should be considered . That whatever it is you 're doing at the moment may also inter influence the interpretation of {disfmarker} of a phrase . So ,this is , uh , really uh , uh , uh {disfmarker} My suggestion is really simple . We start with , um {disfmarker} Now , Let me , uh , say one more thing . What we do know , is that the parser we use in the SmartKomsystem will never differentiate between any of these . So , basically all of these things will result in the same XML M - three - L structure . Sort of action \" go \" , and then an object .Grad D: Mm - hmm .Grad B: Yeah ?and a source . So it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's way too crude to d capture those differences in intentions . So , I thought , \" Mmm ! Maybe for a deep understanding task , that 's a nice sort of playground orfirst little thing . \" Where we can start it and n sort of look {disfmarker} \" OK , we need , we gonna get those M - three - L structures . The crude , undifferentiated parse . Interpreted input . We may need additional partof speech , or maybe just some information on the verb , and modifiers , auxiliaries . We 'll see . And I will try to {disfmarker} to sort of come up with a list of factors that we need to get out of there , and maybe wewant to get a g switch for the context . So this is not something which we can actually monitor , {vocalsound} now , but just is something we can set . And then you can all imagine sort of a {disfmarker} a constrainedsatisfaction program , depending on {disfmarker} on what , um , comes out . We want to have an {disfmarker} a structure resulting if we feed it through a belief - net or {disfmarker} or something along those lines .We 'd get an inferred intention , we {disfmarker} we produce a structure that differentiates between the Vista , the Enter , and the , um , Tango mode . Which I think we maybe want to ignore . But . That 's my idea . It's up for discussion . We can change all of it , any bit of it . Throw it all away .Grad F: Now @ @ this email that you sent , actually .Professor C: What ?Grad F: Now I remember the email .Professor C: OK .Grad E: Huh .Still , I have no recollection whatsoever of the email . I 'll have to go back and check .Professor C: Not important . So , what is important is that we understand what the proposed task is . And , the {disfmarker} the i uh, Robert and I talked about this some on Friday . And we think it 's well - formed . So we think it 's a well - formed , uh , starter task for this , uh , deeper understanding in the tourist domain .Grad F: So , where exactlyis the , uh , deeper understanding being done ? Like I mean , s is it before the Bayes - net ? Is it , uh {disfmarker}Professor C: Well , it 's the {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's always all of it . So , in general it 'salways going to be , the answer is , everywhere . Uh , so the notion is that , uh , this isn't real deep . But it 's deep enough that you can distinguish between these th three quite different kinds of , uh , going to seesome tourist thing . And , so that 's {disfmarker} that 's the quote \" deep \" that we 're trying to get at . And , Robert 's point is that the current front - end doesn't give you any way to {disfmarker} Not only doesn't itdo it , but it also doesn't give you enough information to do it . It isn't like , if you just took what the front - end gives you , and used some clever inference algorithm on it , you would be able to figure out which ofthese is going on . So , uh , and this is {disfmarker} Bu - I in general it 's gonna be true of any kind of deep understanding , there 's gonna be contextual things , there 're gonna be linguistic things , there 're gonna bediscourse things , and they gotta be combined . And , my idea on how to combine them is with a belief - net , although it may turn out that t some totally different thing is gonna work better . Um , the idea would bethat {vocalsound} you , uh , take your {disfmarker} You 're editing your slide ?Grad B: Yeah . As i a sort of , as I get ideas , uh w uh .Professor C: Oh .Grad B: So , discourse {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker}I thought about that . Of course that needs to sort of go in there .Professor C: Oh . I 'm sorry . OK . So . This is minutes {disfmarker} taking minutes as we go , in his {disfmarker} in his own way .Grad B: Yep.Professor C: Um , but the p the {disfmarker} Anyway . So the thing is , {vocalsound} i uh , d naively speaking , you 've {disfmarker} you 've got a {disfmarker} for this little task , a belief - net , which is going to haveas output , the conditional pr probability of one of three things , that the person wants to {disfmarker} uh , to View it , to Enter it , or to Tango with it . Um . So that {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the output of thebelief - net is pretty well formed . And , then the inputs are going to be these kinds of things . And , then the question is {disfmarker} there are two questions {disfmarker} is , uh , one , where do you get this i{comment} information from , and two , what 's the structure of the belief - net ? So what are the conditional probabilities of this , that , and the other , given these things ? And you probably need intermediate nodes .I {disfmarker} we don't know what they are yet . So it may well be that , uh , for example , that , uh , knowing whether {disfmarker} Oh , another thing you want is some information abou I think , about the time of"}
{"doc_id":"doc_46","qid":"","text":"Industrial Designer: Oops That's as far as it goes {vocalsound} .Project Manager: Hi guys uh good morning everybody here . And uh I want to introduce myself , uh my name is uh Shrida Daseri and uh I'm a projectmanager for this new project which we are going to discuss now . So I want to introduce first of all uh the names and the colleagues here . And what you're uh drawing ?User Interface: {vocalsound} Uh sure my nameis Agnes and I'm an user {disfmarker} usability user interface designer .Marketing: {vocalsound} My name is Ed and I do accounting .Project Manager: Uh how you spell your name uh ?Marketing: E_D_ .ProjectManager: E_D_ okay .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: And ?Industrial Designer: Do you also do marketing ?Marketing: {vocalsound} No {vocalsound} .Project Manager: So only accounting ? Okay .Marketing:Accounting , yes .Project Manager: And ?Industrial Designer: And I'm Christine ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: and my role in this uh scenario is to be the industrial designer .Project Manager:Industrial designer .Industrial Designer: But I'm not really one .Project Manager: So who is uh marketing , nobody in the marketMarketing: Marketing is uh , is me {vocalsound} .Project Manager: It's you , okay . Sothanks for coming for the meeting first of all , and uh we have a long time , just twenty-five minutes to discuss about uh this project and the the project initiation . First of all I want to ask uh Mister Ed about your uhmarketing plan and your product plan and uh {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Well I think that we'll see that throughout the day in how we're going to put this together as a marketing to to market the product .We'll have to see on a through discussion on where we're gonna go from here and from {disfmarker} with this .Project Manager: Mm-hmm but uh do you already have like a functional design or a technical design or{disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Uh for the moment not yet .Project Manager: Oh for the moment not yet , okay , but uh what's what's your uh {disfmarker} do you have some project plan , something with youor {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Good question {vocalsound} . No , this is like I said that we have to be discussed between all of us and we'll go from there . We'll have to {disfmarker} simply we'll have towork on it together .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Okay , so uh by when you think you can uh give me some kind of uh project plan , okay , a discussion with uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Certainly by the next meeting.Project Manager: By next meeting , okay that will be great . Uh Okay , so there's any questions or uh first of all about uh this project ?Industrial Designer: What is the goal of the project ?Project Manager: Uh the goalof the project I think maybe I'll uh hand out to the Ed , okay , so to explain uh what is the project because he's in the sales and the accounting .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: I'min the sales I'm supposed to explain them what to do {vocalsound} . We have to define exactly what our product is , from uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yes , so can you explain uh what exactly the product is?Marketing: From what I had in mind we're supposed to be marketing coffee , is that right ?Project Manager: Oh I think uh , if I'm not wrong , we're making the remote control .User Interface: Um I was wondering{disfmarker}Marketing: Remote controls , 'cause I had two different things . I had a first part of mine was to make a remote control for a new f remote control for television , and afterward I had a discussion aboutcoffee so {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yes .Marketing: we'll start with the remote control for television then . So we're have to design something that is very user friendly .Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Something uh visual that has something that will will draw people to buy the product ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: because I think everybody's experienced with uhremote controls , and some remote controls are are worth uh throwing out the window . Uh th most of them ar I don't know we're have to come up with a new idea on how to make it a lot easier to use ,ProjectManager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: 'cause a lot of times uh spend uh half a day through the instruction book trying to figure out how to use it .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: And uhwhat abo uh Christine , what about your uh the industrial design plan ? Are you have a design already on this product or uh you're still working on the design ?Industrial Designer: Um no , I I have not begun working onthe design ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: and um I uh I actually didn't know we were designing a remote control , I thought we were designing a new monitor . Um the website I went to look at hadsome announcements about an introduction of a um uh some sort of a seven inch um monitor , and um I understood that that was the project goal . So um I'm glad I didn't d do any work um ahead of time because uh Iclearly didn't understand the project goal .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: Um I just did s see that we were starting a new project together and there was going to be a four member team composed of thesepeople , and um that's about uh that's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: and I I read through the different steps , and what my responsibilities were relative to the steps .Project Manager: Souh you'll be leading the team for your design team or how many members is working in the team , for the design ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh for the industrial design ?Project Manager: Yes .IndustrialDesigner: Um well , I would th think that depends on how much money you give us .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: That's {gap}Industrial Designer: Um because uh , you know , youcan uh you can make it uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} you have different choices with different financial models .Project Manager: Yeah , but uh before we talk about uh the finance , okay , uh do you have some ideahow we can uh sell this product or project in the market and how much is going to benefit to the company and uh of course it's to the individual also .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well , you know um , I kind ofthink that in general you have to do uh um y you have to have something that's very fashionable , that's uh very attractive {disfmarker} that um people see and recognize uh its goal , and uh they immediately wannahave it uh have one of their own . So it would {disfmarker} really would need to um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} something like the iPod would be good , seems to have caught on fairly well ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: so um d uh you know , I don't care what it does , just so it looks cool .Project Manager: Okay , but uh uh when you think you can give me like a kind of design on the functional design or thetechnical design ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well , uh I've got a lot of other projects I'm doing right now um and so I'll have to wait and see how those uh how those go . If they uh go quickly then uh it could bea month . If um if I run into any problems in my other projects it might be six months .Project Manager: Yeah , but uh I need something in the writing , so like uh what's your functional design , what's your technicaldesign , and uh how many people you need for this project , and what's the time frame you're looking , okay , and what is the budget , maybe uh initial budget you're looking , okay , and uh how is going to the market ,okay ,Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .Project Manager: so you've you've had to meet with the marketing team and how they're going to market and what are the marketing strategic plan , okay , when areyou going to introduce , okay , and by the time you introduce the product and uh you know there there would be a competition , okay , so I need some kind of uh uh the plan in the writing from you . Okay , and it'spoIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} And when would you like that ?Project Manager: B as soon as possible .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh well if uh if we have enough time uh then d do you think um two weeksis a {disfmarker} is close enough ?Project Manager: Yes I think uh that would be good , because I need to go to the management and uh tell them what we are going to do , and uh what cost is , okay , and what's thetime frame and what's the project plan , because uh without any uh documentations , I cannot go to the management and say , so we are going to do this and we need this much money , okay , so then it's it's difficultfor me to say , okay , that's the reason I need uh some kind of plan from you , initially , okay , then we can have the further discussion again .Industrial Designer: Uh {vocalsound} are there other people who will becontributing to the plan ?Project Manager: Yes , of course , if you need some help , uh so let me know . So , who are the people you need uh from the marketing or uh the technical side or uh the administration point ofview , okay , to add in any documentation , or some technical point of view ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: so just let me know so I can uh coordinate all the teams .Industrial Designer: Okay , I'llget back to you on that .Project Manager: Yes . Thank you . Okay . And uh Ed uh so what's {disfmarker} what do you think about uh this uh project for the remote control and d do you have some already plannedsomething for your marketing strategy or uh the sales strategy ?Marketing: Well not yet other than uh doing research and taking remote controls and looking what other companies have to do uh , what they're building, their designs , their ideas ,Project Manager: {vocalsound} Hmm . {vocalsound}Marketing: uh also have to pinpoint which market we're gonna go into .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: It should be a fairly largemarket because uh the number of people that uh {disfmarker} the competition ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: uh th I agree it has to be something {disfmarker} it has to be something new , it has to besomething that that draws people saying eh , I like this . Whether it works or not , they have to first say I like this , I like the design , and then it's gotta be simple to use .Project Manager: Yes , so what I uh prefermaybe uh you need to interact uh more with the Christine , okay , because you know what she is going to do it , okay , and you know how to sell it . Okay , because uh she is doing the design , but you are the corebecause you are in the marketing , okay ,Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: so because you need to sell {disfmarker} and you're the responsible for the all the money , the finance , okay , tomorrow .Marketing:Mm-hmm .Project Manager: So , what I prefer , okay , so you need to interact with the Christine more and uh within her team , okay , who is using the functional design or technical design , okay ,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: and uh you need to come up with some kind of plan , okay , how we are going to do the {disfmarker} your sales plan , okay , thMarketing: Do we already have a cost limit on this , th an idea of howmuch uh we want to market this for , how much it's gonna sell for ,Project Manager: Th That {disfmarker} that'sMarketing: that's up that's up to us to decide , eh ? {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yes , that's{disfmarker} you have to decide , okay , so the best thing is you {disfmarker} uh both of uh the Christine and you discuss with yourself , okay , and come up with the cost , and how we are going to compete in themarket , okay , in the the technically , or in the sales wise , okay , the commercial wise , okay . Then uh we have to design , okay , how long it will take the whole project , okay , how much is going to cost us , and howmuch we are going to benefit for the company . Okay , of course it's it's uh of benefit for everybody individually . Okay , so I think it's uh maybe if we can uh give me some kind of your uh the sales plan , okay ,including the technical what uh she's going to talk to you within the team , okay , then it will help me to discuss with the management for further , okay , and put it in the the proper project plan . Okay , and if you needuh any coordination in between uh compared to the maybe the some technical vendors or commercial vendors , okay , depends if you want to have some uh uh marketing plan or technical plan , okay , so you let meknow .Marketing: {vocalsound} Very good .Project Manager: Okay , I can coordinate ,Marketing: Very good .Project Manager: or maybe uh , you are my coordinator , am I right ?User Interface: Mm .Project Manager:Between uh all the coorUser Interface: Well , no , not exactly . I mean my job from what I understood was to look at the usability requirements and make sure that the product is usable , it's acceptable to the peoplewho are gonna use it and look at the best ways to do that .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: So I think I'll have to interact with Christine and discuss with her , so that she's not designing something that mystudies will show right off the bat that it's not going to work ,Project Manager: Th Christine , yeah {vocalsound} . Which is {disfmarker}User Interface: and so it's sort of {disfmarker} it's a loop that feeds in , but Idon't think necessarily that I'm in a coordinating position for it .Project Manager: Yes . Yeah , so basically you need to interact with Christine more , okay , for the user acceptability , okay , and the testing , okay ,UserInterface: Yeah . Mm-hmm .Project Manager: then you will {disfmarker}User Interface: Which will also feed into the marketing ,Project Manager: Yes .User Interface: because depending on what users want , dependson how you sell it , what tag lines you attach to it , how you try to make it more attractive to users .Project Manager: Yes . Yeah . Yeah . Yeah .User Interface: So I think all three groups will need to interact quite a bit .Um , and then I guess build the plan based on all of that , because I think you need to take all the factors into account .Project Manager: Yep . But what I request , okay , {gap} keep Ed in the loop , okay , in betweenyour uh meeting and Christine meeting , because uh he should know what's happening .User Interface: Yeah , of course {vocalsound} . Yeah , we can C_C_ him on any discussions or documents that are passed around.Project Manager: Yes . Okay and please please copy all the mails , okay , all the discussions to me , okay , so I need to submit to the management .User Interface: Sure . No problem .Project Manager: So anyquestions for uh time being ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: No .User Interface: So , the immediate next step is to start determining the functional design , orProject Manager: Yes .User Interface:{disfmarker} okay .Project Manager: Okay . To come up with the functional design and uh to discuss with Ed , okay , and how it's going to be work , and uh first of all with your user acceptance , okay , how it looks likeand how it's going to be work in the market , okay ,User Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: so then we can discuss about uh further things . So , we'll meet when the {disfmarker} we'll discuss on the furthermeeting .User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: It's okay ? Thanks for coming .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Would you mind um at the conclusion of our meeting could could you send us a copy ofyour slides ?Project Manager: Yes , I will . Yes .User Interface: Mm-hmm , yeah , that would be useful .Project Manager: I'll copy , uh le let us keep all the emails and all the copies , okay , share each other , okay , soyou know everybody what's happening , okay ?User Interface: Sure .Project Manager: And if anything you need anytime so please either you can call me , or just send me email , or uh just come and uh knock my door, okay , so I'm available here . It's good ? Okay , thanks for coming and uh I wish you a nice time then .User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: Thank you .User Interface: Thanks .Project Manager: Okay , see youlater . Bye .User Interface: Thank you ."}
{"doc_id":"doc_47","qid":"","text":"PhD A: It 's not very significant .Professor B: Uh , channel one . Yes .Grad D: Channel three .Professor B: OK .PhD F: Mm - hmm .Grad D: Channel three .PhD A: TaGrad D: Channel three . Alright .Professor B: OK , didyou solve speech recognition last week ?Grad E: Almost .Professor B: Alright ! Let 's do image processing .PhD C: Yes , again .PhD A: Great .PhD C: We did it again , Morgan .Professor B: Alright !Grad E: Doo - doop ,doo - doo .PhD A: What 's wrong with {disfmarker} ?Professor B: OK . It 's April fifth . Actually , Hynek should be getting back in town shortly if he isn't already .PhD C: Is he gonna come here ?Professor B: Uh . Well ,we 'll drag him here . I know where he is .PhD C: So when you said \" in town \" , you mean {pause} Oregon .Professor B: U u u u uh , I meant , you know , this end of the world , yeah , {vocalsound} is really what Imeant ,PhD C: Oh .Grad E: Doo , doo - doo .Professor B: uh , cuz he 's been in Europe .Grad E: Doo - doo .Professor B: So .PhD C: I have something just fairly brief to report on .Professor B: Mmm .PhD C: Um , I didsome {pause} experim uh , uh , just a few more experiments before I had to , {vocalsound} uh , go away for the w well , that week .Professor B: Great !PhD C: Was it last week or whenever ? Um , so what I wasstarted playing with was the {disfmarker} th again , this is the HTK back - end . And , um , I was curious because the way that they train up the models , {vocalsound} they go through about four sort of rounds of{disfmarker} of training . And in the first round they do {disfmarker} uh , I think it 's three iterations , and for the last three rounds e e they do seven iterations of re - estimation in each of those three . And so , youknow , that 's part of what takes so long to train the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the back - end for this .Professor B: I 'm sorry , I didn't quite get that . There 's {disfmarker} there 's four and there 's seven and{disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I 'm sorry .PhD C: Yeah . Uh , maybe I should write it on the board . So , {vocalsound} there 's four rounds of training . Um , I g I g I guess you could say iterations . The first one is three ,then seven , seven , and seven . And what these numbers refer to is the number of times that the , uh , HMM re - estimation is run . It 's this program called H EProfessor B: But in HTK , what 's the difference between ,uh , a {disfmarker} an inner loop and an outer loop in these iterations ?PhD C: OK . So what happens is , um , at each one of these points , you increase the number of Gaussians in the model .Professor B: Yeah . Oh ,right ! This was the mix up stuff .PhD C: Yeah . The mix up .Professor B: That 's right .PhD C: Right .Professor B: I remember now .PhD C: And so , in the final one here , you end up with , uh {disfmarker} for all of the{disfmarker} the digit words , you end up with , uh , three {pause} mixtures per state ,Professor B: Yeah .PhD C: eh , in the final {pause} thing . So I had done some experiments where I was {disfmarker} I{disfmarker} I want to play with the number of mixtures .Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD C: But , um , uh , I wanted to first test to see if we actually need to do {pause} this many iterations early on .Grad E: Uh , one ,two ,Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD C: And so , um , I {disfmarker} I ran a couple of experiments where I {vocalsound} reduced that to l to be three , two , two , {vocalsound} uh , five , I think , and I got almost theexact same results .Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD C: And {disfmarker} but it runs much much faster . So , um , I {disfmarker} I think m {pause} it only took something like , uh , three or four hours to do the fulltraining ,Professor B: As opposed to {disfmarker} ?PhD F: Good .PhD C: as opposed to wh what , sixteen hours or something like that ? I mean , it takes {disfmarker} you have to do an overnight basically , the way itis set up now .PhD F: Yeah . It depends .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD C: So , uh , even we don't do anything else , doing something like this could allow us to turn experiments around a lot faster.Professor B: And then when you have your final thing , do a full one , so it 's {disfmarker}PhD C: And when you have your final thing , we go back to this .PhD F: Yeah .PhD C: So , um , and it 's a real simple change tomake . I mean , it 's like one little text file you edit and change those numbers , and you don't do anything else .PhD F: Oh , this is a {disfmarker}PhD A: Mm - hmm .PhD C: And then you just run .PhD F: OK .PhD C: Soit 's a very simple change to make and it doesn't seem to hurt all that much .PhD A: So you {disfmarker} you run with three , two , two , five ? That 's aPhD C: So I {disfmarker} Uh , I {disfmarker} I have to look tosee what the exact numbers were .PhD A: Yeah .PhD C: I {disfmarker} I thought was , like , three , two , two , five ,PhD A: Mm - hmm .PhD C: but I I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll double check . It was {vocalsound} over aweek ago that I did it ,PhD A: OK . Mm - hmm .PhD C: so I can't remember exactly .Grad E: Oh .PhD C: But , uh {disfmarker}Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD C: um , but it 's so much faster . I it makes a big difference.Grad E: Hmm .PhD C: So we could do a lot more experiments and throw a lot more stuff in there .PhD F: Yeah .Professor B: That 's great .PhD C: Um . Oh , the other thing that I did was , um , {vocalsound} I compiled{pause} the HTK stuff for the Linux boxes . So we have this big thing that we got from IBM , which is a five - processor machine . Really fast , but it 's running Linux . So , you can now run your experiments on thatmachine and you can run five at a time and it runs , {vocalsound} uh , as fast as , you know , uh , five different machines .PhD A: Mm - hmm .PhD F: Mm - hmm .PhD C: So , um , I 've forgotten now what the name ofthat machine is but I can {disfmarker} I can send email around about it .PhD A: Yeah .PhD C: And so we 've got it {disfmarker} now HTK 's compiled for both the Linux and for , um , the Sparcs . Um , you have tomake {disfmarker} you have to make sure that in your dot CSHRC , {vocalsound} um , it detects whether you 're running on the Linux or a {disfmarker} a Sparc and points to the right executables . Uh , and you maynot have had that in your dot CSHRC before , if you were always just running the Sparc . So , um ,PhD A: Mm - hmm .PhD C: uh , I can {disfmarker} I can tell you exactly what you need to do to get all of that to work .But it 'll {disfmarker} it really increases what we can run on .Grad E: Hmm . Cool .PhD C: So , {vocalsound} together with the fact that we 've got these {pause} faster Linux boxes and that it takes less time to do{pause} these , um , we should be able to crank through a lot more experiments .PhD A: Mm - hmm .PhD C: So .Grad E: Hmm .PhD C: So after I did that , then what I wanted to do {comment} was try {pause}increasing the number of mixtures , just to see , um {disfmarker} see how {disfmarker} how that affects performance .PhD A: Yeah .PhD C: So .Professor B: Yeah . In fact , you could do something like {pause} keepexactly the same procedure and then add a fifth thing onto itPhD C: Mm - hmm .Professor B: that had more .PhD C: Exactly .Professor B: Yeah .PhD C: Right . Right .Grad E: So at {disfmarker} at the middle o wherethe arrows are showing , that 's {disfmarker} you 're adding one more mixture per state ,PhD C: Uh - huh . Uh ,Grad E: or {disfmarker} ?PhD C: let 's see , uh . It goes from this {disfmarker} uh , try to go it backwards{disfmarker} this {disfmarker} at this point it 's two mixtures {pause} per state . So this just adds one . Except that , uh , actually for the silence model , it 's six mixtures per state .Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD C: Uh, so it goes to two .Grad E: OK .PhD C: Um . And I think what happens here is {disfmarker}Professor B: Might be between , uh , shared , uh {disfmarker} shared variances or something ,PhD C: Yeah . I think that 'swhat it is .Professor B: or {disfmarker}PhD C: Uh , yeah . It 's , uh {disfmarker} Shoot . I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I can't remember now what happens at that first one . Uh , I have to look it up and see .Grad E:Oh , OK .PhD C: Um , there {disfmarker} because they start off with , uh , an initial model which is just this global model , and then they split it to the individuals . And so , {vocalsound} it may be that that 's what 'shappening here . I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I have to look it up and see . I {disfmarker} I don't exactly remember .Grad E: OK .Professor B: OK .PhD C: So . That 's it .Professor B: Alright . So whatelse ?PhD A: Um . Yeah . There was a conference call this Tuesday . Um . I don't know yet the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} what happened {vocalsound} Tuesday , but {vocalsound} the points that they were supposedto discuss is still , {vocalsound} uh , things like {vocalsound} the weights , uh {disfmarker}Professor B: Oh , this is a conference call for , uh , uh , Aurora participant sort of thing .Grad E: For {disfmarker}PhD A: Yeah. Yeah .Professor B: I see .PhD A: Mmm .Professor B: Do you know who was {disfmarker} who was {disfmarker} since we weren't in on it , uh , do you know who was in from OGI ? Was {disfmarker} {vocalsound} was{disfmarker} was Hynek involved or was it SunilPhD A: I have no idea .Professor B: or {disfmarker} ?PhD A: Mmm , I just {disfmarker}Professor B: Oh , you don't know . OK .PhD A: Yeah .Professor B: Alright .PhD A:Um , yeah . So the points were the {disfmarker} the weights {disfmarker} how to weight the different error rates {vocalsound} that are obtained from different language and {disfmarker} and conditions . Um , it 's notclear that they will keep the same kind of weighting . Right now it 's a weighting on {disfmarker} on improvement .Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD A: Some people are arguing that it would be better to have weights onuh {disfmarker} well , to {disfmarker} to combine error rates {pause} before computing improvement . Uh , and the fact is that for {disfmarker} right now for {pause} the English , they have weights {disfmarker}they {disfmarker} they combine error rates , but for the other languages they combine improvement . So it 's not very consistent . Um {disfmarker}Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD A: Yeah . The , um {disfmarker} Yeah .And so {disfmarker} Well , {vocalsound} this is a point . And right now actually there is a thing also , {vocalsound} uh , that happens with the current weight is that a very non - significant improvement {pause} on thewell - matched case result in {pause} huge differences in {disfmarker} {vocalsound} in the final number .Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD A: And so , perhaps they will change the weights to {disfmarker}PhD C: Hmm.PhD A: Yeah .PhD C: How should that be done ? I mean , it {disfmarker} it seems like there 's a simple way {disfmarker}PhD A: Mm - hmm .PhD C: Uh , this seems like an obvious mistake or something .Professor B:Well , I mean , the fact that it 's inconsistent is an obvious mistake .PhD C: Th - they 're {disfmarker}Professor B: But the {disfmarker} but , um , the other thing {disfmarker}PhD A: InProfessor B: I don't know Ihaven't thought it through , but one {disfmarker} one would think that {vocalsound} each {disfmarker} It {disfmarker} it 's like if you say what 's the {disfmarker} what 's the best way to do an average , an arithmeticaverage or a geometric average ?PhD C: Mm - hmm .Professor B: It depends what you wanna show .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor B: Each {disfmarker} each one is gonna have a different characteristic .PhD A: Yeah.Professor B: So {disfmarker}PhD C: Well , it seems like they should do , like , the percentage improvement or something , rather than the {pause} absolute improvement .PhD A: Tha - that 's what they do .ProfessorB: Well , they are doing that .PhD A: Yeah .Professor B: No , that is relative . But the question is , do you average the relative improvements {pause} or do you average the error rates and take the relativeimprovement maybe of that ?PhD A: Yeah . Yeah .Professor B: And the thing is it 's not just a pure average because there are these weightings .PhD C: Oh .Professor B: It 's a weighted average . Um .PhD A: Yeah . Andso when you average the {disfmarker} the relative improvement it tends to {disfmarker} {vocalsound} to give a lot of {disfmarker} of , um , {vocalsound} importance to the well - matched case because {pause} thebaseline is already very good and , um , i it 's {disfmarker}PhD C: Why don't they not look at improvements but just look at your av your scores ? You know , figure out how to combine the scoresPhD A: Mm - hmm.PhD C: with a weight or whatever , and then give you a score {disfmarker} here 's your score . And then they can do the same thing for the baseline system {disfmarker} and here 's its score . And then you can lookat {disfmarker}PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor B: Well , that 's what he 's seeing as one of the things they could do .PhD A: Yeah .Professor B: It 's just when you {disfmarker} when you get all done , I think that theypro I m I {disfmarker} I wasn't there but I think they started off this process with the notion that {vocalsound} you should be {pause} significantly better than the previous standard .PhD C: Mm - hmm .Professor B:And , um , so they said \" how much is significantly better ? what do you {disfmarker} ? \" And {disfmarker} and so they said \" well , {vocalsound} you know , you should have half the errors , \" or something , \" that youhad before \" .PhD A: Mm - hmm . Hmm .PhD C: Mm - hmm .PhD A: Yeah .Professor B: So it 's , uh , But it does seem likePhD C: Hmm .Professor B: i i it does seem like it 's more logical to combine them first and thendo the {disfmarker}PhD A: Combine error rates and then {disfmarker}Professor B: Yeah .PhD A: Yeah . Well {disfmarker}Professor B: Yeah .PhD A: But there is this {disfmarker} this {disfmarker} is this still thisproblem of weights . When {disfmarker} when you combine error rate it tends to {pause} give more importance to the difficult cases , and some people think that {disfmarker}Professor B: Oh , yeah ?PhD A: well , theyhave different , {vocalsound} um , opinions about this . Some people think that {vocalsound} it 's more important to look at {disfmarker} {vocalsound} to have ten percent imp relative improvement on {pause} well -matched case than to have fifty percent on the m mismatched , and other people think that it 's more important to improve a lot on the mismatch and {disfmarker} So , buPhD C: It sounds like they don't really have agood idea about what the final application is gonna be .PhD A: l de fff ! Mmm .Professor B: Well , you know , the {disfmarker} the thing is {vocalsound} that if you look at the numbers on the {disfmarker} on the moredifficult cases , {vocalsound} um , if you really believe that was gonna be the predominant use , {vocalsound} none of this would be good enough .PhD A: Yeah . Mmm . Yeah .Professor B: Nothing anybody 's{disfmarker}PhD C: Mm - hmm .Professor B: whereas {vocalsound} you sort of with some reasonable error recovery could imagine in the better cases that these {disfmarker} these systems working . So , um , I thinkthe hope would be that it would {disfmarker} {vocalsound} uh , it would work well {pause} for the good cases and , uh , it would have reasonable {disfmarker} reas {vocalsound} soft degradation as you got to worseand worse conditions . Um .PhD C: Yeah . I {disfmarker} I guess what I 'm {disfmarker} I mean , I {disfmarker} I was thinking about it in terms of , if I were building the final product and I was gonna test to see whichfront - end I 'd {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I wanted to use , I would {vocalsound} try to {pause} weight things depending on the exact environment that I was gonna be using the system in .Professor B: But{disfmarker} but {disfmarker} No .PhD C: If I {disfmarker}Professor B: Well , no {disfmarker} well , no . I mean , {vocalsound} it isn't the operating theater . I mean , they don they {disfmarker} they don't{disfmarker} they don't really {pause} know , I think .PhD C: Yeah .Professor B: I mean , I thPhD C: So if {disfmarker} if they don't know , doesn't that suggest the way for them to go ? Uh , you assume everything 'sequal . I mean , y y I mean , you {disfmarker}Professor B: Well , I mean , I {disfmarker} I think one thing to do is to just not rely on a single number {disfmarker} to maybe have two or three numbers ,PhD C: Yeah.Professor B: you know ,PhD C: Right .Professor B: and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and say {vocalsound} here 's how much you , uh {disfmarker} you improve {vocalsound} the , uh {disfmarker} the {disfmarker}the relatively clean case and here 's {disfmarker} or {disfmarker} or well - matched case , and here 's how {disfmarker} here 's how much you ,PhD C: Mm - hmm .Professor B: uh {disfmarker}PhD C: So not{disfmarker}Professor B: So .PhD C: So not try to combine them .Professor B: Yeah . Uh , actually it 's true .PhD C: Yeah .Professor B: Uh , I had forgotten this , uh , but , uh , well - matched is not actually clean . Whatit is is just that , u uh , the training and testing are similar .PhD C: The training and testing .PhD A: Mmm .Professor B: So , I guess what you would do in practice is you 'd try to get as many , {vocalsound} uh ,examples of similar sort of stuff as you could , and then ,PhD C: Yeah .Professor B: uh {disfmarker} So the argument for that being the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the more important thing , {vocalsound} is thatyou 're gonna try and do that , {vocalsound} but you wanna see how badly it deviates from that when {disfmarker} when {disfmarker} when the , uh {disfmarker} it 's a little different .PhD C: So{disfmarker}Professor B: Um ,PhD C: so you should weight those other conditions v very {disfmarker} you know , really small .Professor B: But {disfmarker} No . That 's a {disfmarker} that 's a {disfmarker} that 's anargPhD C: I mean , that 's more of an information kind of thing .Professor B: that 's an ar Well , that 's an argument for it , but let me give you the opposite argument . The opposite argument is you 're never reallygonna have a good sample of all these different things .PhD C: Uh - huh .Professor B: I mean , are you gonna have w uh , uh , examples with the windows open , half open , full open ? Going seventy , sixty , fifty , fortymiles an hour ? On what kind of roads ?PhD C: Mm - hmm .Professor B: With what passing you ? With {disfmarker} uh , I mean ,PhD C: Mm - hmm .Professor B: I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think that you couldmake the opposite argument that the well - matched case is a fantasy .PhD C: Mm - hmm .Professor B: You know , so ,Grad E: Uh - huh .Professor B: I think the thing is is that if you look at the well - matched caseversus the po you know , the {disfmarker} the medium and the {disfmarker} and the fo and then the mismatched case , {vocalsound} um , we 're seeing really , really big differences in performance . Right ? And{disfmarker} and y you wouldn't like that to be the case . You wouldn't like that as soon as you step outside {disfmarker} You know , a lot of the {disfmarker} the cases it 's {disfmarker} is {disfmarker}PhD C: Well ,that 'll teach them to roll their window up .Professor B: I mean , in these cases , if you go from the {disfmarker} the , uh {disfmarker} I mean , I don't remember the numbers right off , but if you {disfmarker} if you gofrom the well - matched case to the medium , {vocalsound} it 's not an enormous difference in the {disfmarker} in the {disfmarker} the training - testing situation , and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and it 's a reallybig {vocalsound} performance drop .PhD C: Mm - hmm .Professor B: You know , so , um {disfmarker} Yeah , I mean the reference one , for instance {disfmarker} this is back old on , uh {disfmarker} on Italian{disfmarker} uh , was like {pause} six percent error for the well - matched and eighteen for the medium - matched and sixty for the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} for highly - mismatched . Uh , and , you know , withthese other systems we {disfmarker} we {vocalsound} helped it out quite a bit , but still there 's {disfmarker} there 's something like a factor of two or something between well - matched and medium - matched . And{vocalsound} so I think that {vocalsound} if what you 're {disfmarker} {vocalsound} if the goal of this is to come up with robust features , it does mean {disfmarker} So you could argue , in fact , that the well -matched is something you shouldn't be looking at at all , that {disfmarker} that the goal is to come up with features {vocalsound} that will still give you reasonable performance , you know , with again gentle degregradegradation , um , even though the {disfmarker} the testing condition is not the same as the training .PhD C: Hmm .Professor B: So , you know , I {disfmarker} I could argue strongly that something like the mediummismatch , which is you know not compl pathological but {disfmarker} I mean , what was the {disfmarker} the medium - mismatch condition again ?PhD A: Um , {vocalsound} it 's {disfmarker} Yeah . Medium"}
{"doc_id":"doc_48","qid":"","text":"Lynne Neagle AM: Good afternoon. Can I welcome Members to the virtual meeting of the Children, Young People and Education Committee this afternoon? In accordance with Standing Order 34.19, I've determined thatthe public are excluded from the committee's meeting, in order to protect public health. In accordance with Standing Order 34.21, notice of this decision was included in the agenda for this meeting, which was publishedlast Thursday. This meeting is, however, being broadcast live on Senedd.tv, with all participants joining via video-conference. A record of proceedings will be published as usual. Aside from the procedural adaptationrelated to conducting proceedings remotely, all other Standing Order requirements for committees remain in place. The meeting is bilingual, and simultaneous translation from Welsh to English is available. Can I remindeveryone that the microphones will be controlled centrally, so there's no need to turn them on and off individually? We've received apologies for absence from Hefin David AM, and there is no substitution. Can I askMembers if there are any declarations of interest, please? No. Okay, thank you. Can I just note for the record that if for any reason I drop out of the meeting, the committee has agreed that Dawn Bowden AM willtemporarily chair while I try to rejoin? Moving on, then, to item 2 this afternoon, which is an evidence session with the Welsh Government in relation to the impact of the coronavirus pandemic on health and socialservices as they relate to children and young people in Wales. I'm very pleased to welcome Vaughan Gething AM, the Minister for Health and Social Services; Julie Morgan AM, Deputy Minister for Health and SocialServices; Albert Heaney, deputy director general of the health and social services group; Nicola Edwards, deputy director, childcare, play and early years; Jean White, chief nursing officer; and Tracey Breheny, who isdeputy director of mental health, substance misuse and vulnerable groups. Thank you all very much for your attendance today—we appreciate your time. We've got lots of questions that we'd like to cover, which we'llgo straight into, with questions from Siân Gwenllian.Sian Gwenllian AM: Good afternoon. How much do we understand about how this virus impacts children and young people, and their role in transmitting the virus?And how important is it that this is considered in the Welsh Government's exit strategy, especially in the context of reopening schools?Vaughan Gething AM: Okay. I think it's fair to say that our understanding isdeveloping across all age ranges about the virus and its impact. It's still the case that children and young people are less likely to be affected significantly by COVID-19 than people with a range of healthcare conditions,and in particular the age grade that we've seen, and that's underpinned the advice we've given to the whole population about self-isolation by people in age categories, as well as the extremely vulnerable group weadvise to shield. We still don't understand everything about the role that children have to play in the transmitting of the virus, and this is one of the difficulties we face. Because in cold and flu, children transmit the virusand they're also susceptible, in particular to the flu, as well; that's why we have a childhood immunisation programme for the flu as well. We do know that there's some developing evidence about what's called aKawasaki-like syndrome, but that's affecting very small numbers of children. We have one possible case in Wales—a child who's in critical care—but that isn't confirmed. That's still a developing knowledge base. So, therest of the world is still trying to understand that too. But the generals still apply—that children are less likely to be affected than older people, but can nevertheless still become unwell, and that's, if you like, one of thefew positives in this condition. But as I say, we're still learning, so I won't try and present a fully accurate or finalised picture of knowledge in this area.Sian Gwenllian AM: And in terms—[Inaudible.]Vaughan GethingAM: Chair. Sorry. Excuse me, Chair. Sorry—with apologies to the Member, my translation stopped after a while, so I heard the first part translated, and then it just fell off. I'm really sorry, but I didn't want to try toanswer a different question to the one that may be being asked, and don't think that's fair to the Member or other members of the committee.Lynne Neagle AM: Can we check that translation is back on, please, andmaybe Siân could repeat her question?Vaughan Gething AM: I can hear it, yes.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, Siân, would you mind repeating that, please?Sian Gwenllian AM: Not at all. I was discussing NHS services,including critical care services, and I was asking whether there is sufficient capacity in place to manage any increase. We, of course, hope that there won't be any increase, but should there be an increase, particularly inpaediatric cases of coronavirus—let's say such a thing were to happen and this rare syndrome that you mentioned did emerge here in Wales—do we have the capacity in place to deal with these, and with the impact ofcoronavirus more generally on children?Vaughan Gething AM: At this point in time, the answer is 'yes', and there is always a significant caveat, though, and the 'but' that comes in there is that despite the fact thatwe've got a plan for surge capacity in paediatric care—. So, when we increased critical care right across the national health service, we of course looked at paediatric care as part of that as well. So, we can flex up ourcapacity. But the challenge in all of that this is—it's part of my caution and the Government's caution about moves out of lockdown. So, it's much easier to go into lockdown than to come out of it, and I know you heardevidence from the Minister for Education last week about the approach that she wants to take and the principles behind doing that. So, actually, we'll need to think carefully about if we are reopening schools, even on alimited basis, what that then does to the circulation of coronavirus within that group of children as well as within the wider community, and then to try to understand whether the current capacity we have planned for insurge capacity is still going to be enough, because, actually, one of the real success stories of the first stage of the fight with coronavirus is that we haven't had our critical care capacity filled up. It's been extended, andthe extension has meant that we haven't been overtopped. If we hadn't done that, we definitely would have been. And we'll need to carry on testing ourselves and seeing what's happening and looking at the evidenceand making sure that the plan we already have got that we published for paediatric critical care is still fit for purpose, and again to reconsider if we need to do things differently. But that's part of the difficulty of being aMinister at the moment—you don't know everything that's coming, and on this disease in particular, we do know that we're still learning with each passing day.Lynne Neagle AM: [Inaudible.]—Siân?Sian Gwenllian AM:Hello. Yes, those are the questions I had on that section.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Lovely. Thank you very much. Right, we'll move on now then to some question on access to health services from Dawn Bowden.DawnBowden AM: Thank you, Chair. Minister, just some concern that you will have heard about in terms of parents and carers maybe not taking their children into the healthcare system for other conditions while thecoronavirus pandemic is with us. How are you monitoring that situation at the moment and have you had to look at your own commutation strategy in relation to that?Vaughan Gething AM: We've had to look at somespecifics around communication, so challenges about not just different languages, but about how we get messages to people in a very different environment, and it's really challenging. So, for example, our health visitorservice has absolutely not stopped. We've had to think about the way it works, and I had this conversation earlier this week with the chief nurse. But the bigger challenge are parents refusing to engage with the service.I understand people's fear and anxiety, but that then means that their family, and in particular their child, isn't getting the sort of proactive care that we would want them to have. So, there's a real concern both at theprofessional leadership end and for the chief nurse and for Ministers as well about how we can get through. That's actually about rebuilding people's confidence in the service, and that isn't straightforward becausethere's a broader concern about coronavirus still circulating. But I think for us it's really important to reiterate that we have thought again about how to provide the service. We've thought about how to protect staff andfamilies and the very clear message to parents is to please make sure that when health and care professionals are calling to help and support your family, please discuss your concerns with them. We're doing even moreremotely, via telephone and online as well. There are times you need to be physically in the same place, for example on routine vaccinations, because we certainly haven't stopped that programme either, and I reallywouldn't want to see that one of the unintended consequences of what we've done is that if parents don't engage with that service, we could potentially see a rise in other diseases. We're all, I think—not just you inyour constituency, but others who are on this call and others as well—seeing an occasional reappearance of measles, and that's because people didn't engage with the vaccination programme. I don't want, either myselfor a different health Minister in the future, to be sat here talking about how in years to come the failure to engage in a vaccination programme has led to clearly avoidable but significant harm to children and youngpeople and the communities they live in.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Jean, you wanted to come in.Vaughan Gething AM: You need to unmute yourself. Oh, no—Professor Jean White: Thank you. I just want to add towhat the Minister said. So, I approached the immunisation lead in Public Health Wales to see exactly what has been happening recently and they said at the very beginning of the outbreak parents were very reluctantabout coming forward for their routine immunisations, but recently, through lots of energy from the immunisation clinics and the leads within it reaching out to families, that trend seems to have turned and there's nowa much better attendance. One of the most important things we can do to protect our children is to make sure they have their vaccinations. So, yes, there was a bit of a downturn, but it does seem to be improving atthe moment. Thank you.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay, thank you. And that answered my second question, Chair, so I'm happy to leave it there. Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you very much. We're going to goon now to some questions about mental health from Siân Gwenllian. Siân.Sian Gwenllian AM: It's a cause of great concern to us all, of course, in terms of the impact of this crisis on mental health and well-being amongour children and young people. So, what assessment has the Government undertaken of the impact on these aspects in young people and what work is being done to understand the impact of the pandemic? Whatlonger term measures will be put in place and what support services will be put in place?Vaughan Gething AM: Again, I think it's helpful that you've already heard from the education Minister last week, because I thinkthe first of her key principles for returning to school is the impact on the emotional health and well-being of children. So, children's mental health was a central concern and remains so for both myself and the educationMinister. Part of the honest challenge, again, is that we don't fully understand the impact on the mental health and well-being of children but we do expect there will have been an impact. So, we're working togetherwith both health boards and our own knowledge and analytical services across the Government to both try to further understand what that is and the difference. Until we have more contact with families, we may notfully understand that, and that's a real point of concern for me. In all of the unknowns within this, the impact on mental health and well-being is absolutely one of them, because we're looking at how we then developnot just a recovery plan for the economy but a recovery plan around mental health, how we support people, and that will have to be informed by the understanding of what's happening when we get more engagementwith families about the level of need, and then how we need to think about that. Obviously, it's a key factor for their return to school, but, actually, for the life children and young people lead outside the schoolenvironment, and that will be difficult because we're going to phase out of lockdown—it's not going to be a one-hit measure. That absolutely isn't going to happen. We're going to be looking at, at each point, whatdifference has been made, what more we can do. And, again, there are the efforts we're making to make sure that our online support services and our telephone support services—that we keep on reminding people thatthey're there and are available, and we want people to make use of them, because I know, as this committee said, we'd much rather be able to support people and intervene earlier rather than wait until there's a muchbigger problem in a period of months in the future.Sian Gwenllian AM: So, in reality, there's been no assessment undertaken because it's difficult to do that. So, the full picture in terms of the outcomes of the crisis—youdon't know what they are at the moment as things stand.Vaughan Gething AM: We can't know, because we don't have that level of contact. There is a development—. I wouldn't say that no work's being done, but Icouldn't tell you honestly that that work is finalised and we have a definitive understanding of the picture. If I tried to say that, then I'm sure you'd ask me, 'How on earth can you say that? If you're not having regularcontact with people, you can't possibly understand the picture.' And it's much better to say, 'We don't understand the full picture. We know there'll have been an impact. We're working alongside health boards andothers, but we'll know more as we carry on having more contact with families.' I'll look at a variety of different areas, again, both to reform the recovery plan, but also then to understand what we need to do at variouspoints in the future, and the picture that we're seeing isn't straightforward and we need to make sure that we don't try to pretend to ourselves or to the public that there is a one-off measure that will allow us to besuccessful in all the areas that we'd want to be.Sian Gwenllian AM: But can you give the committee an assurance today that this area of mental health and well-being is going to be a priority for you as healthMinister?Vaughan Gething AM: Of course. Not just on the work we've done in the past; not just because it's one of the key principles for the education Minister about the reopening of schools, but it is a real worry list forme about how we understand the impact on the mental health and well-being of children and young people, and to move forwards, that we don't end up with an entire generation of children and young people who growup with a range of damage because we haven't thought about what that will look like. So, the mental health recovery plan will of course be of very real importance to me. In amongst all the other priorities I have, I'mcertainly not going to allow the mental health and well-being of children and young people to be forgotten.Sian Gwenllian AM: And how does the current capacity in terms of child and adolescent mental health servicescompare to service capacity prior to the coronavirus outbreak in Wales? Have you had to shift some resources over from CAMHS, for example, in order to deal with more general aspects of coronavirus?Vaughan GethingAM: No, we've actually got—. Maybe perhaps it might be helpful, Chair, if Tracey Breheny could say something about the way that we're monitoring the impact we have, in terms of we've got a reporting tool, but alsoweekly contact with leads in CAMHS services.Lynne Neagle AM: Tracey.Tracey Breheny: Of course. Thanks, Minister. Yes, on that question, we moved pretty quickly at the beginning of the pandemic phase to put inplace, as the Minister said, a weekly monitoring tool of all local health boards, so through that tool, we look at that every week in terms of collecting information. Whilst national reporting's been stood down, we arepicking up assurance through that tool on things like staff sickness in CAMHS services, referral numbers and so on, so we do have that tool in place, and at the moment, that's telling us that the system can meet thecapacity; has the capacity to meet need.Sian Gwenllian AM: Have CAMHS staff been shifted over to do other work during this virus outbreak?Tracey Breheny: There has been some movement, as I'm saying, aroundhealth boards, particularly where in the first phase of the epidemic the concentration was on in-patient provision, providing critical care, but my understanding is from the latest tool that we looked at last week, thosestaff are gradually not just returning to work from self-isolation or whatever, or from different parts of the system.Sian Gwenllian AM: And then, what about the capacity for CAMHS primary mental health services? Hasthere been a reduction in that capacity since the beginning of the pandemic in terms of in-patients? Because that's what I'm hearing, that there has been such a reduction, but how are those patients then treated andserved?Tracey Breheny: In terms of in-patient capacity, that is in the system in both the north Wales and in the south Wales unit at the moment. There were some discharges of young people, but we've had theassurance that that was only undertaken where it was clinically safe to do so and where the community support was in place.Sian Gwenllian AM: And finally in this section from me, given that schools are of courseclosed and that schools are so very important in terms of signposting young people towards services, how can young people access appropriate services—online services, for example? How are they signposted towardsthose services at the moment?Vaughan Gething AM: Well, we've not closed off general practice and, as you know, we've expanded the ability for people to access services in an online manner. We've expanded a rangeof telephone advice services, so the telephone advice service we already provide, we've made sure that's maintained, and both myself and the deputy Minister have referred to that on a number of occasions. I think thereal struggle and the real difficulty is actually how you punch through different messages when the broader news agenda is so overwhelmingly focused on headline messages in other areas. That is, again, a worry forme, but the communications we have within the health and care system, people should know where to refer people to and how to provide access to both telephone and online support that continues to be available, andactually, as I say, we've expanded that right across our healthcare system. That's what I’m keen to see continue into the future. Whatever the post-COVID-19 world is, I don't want to miss out on the progress we havemade in the online provision of services. Of course, most children and young people expect to be able to access services in an online manner already.Sian Gwenllian AM: But, of course, there will be some who aremissed; they may fall between two stools because they won’t know where to turn.Vaughan Gething AM: Yes, and that, again, comes back to our challenge of how we help children and young people in their context, withtheir families, to know where support and advice and guidance is. Many people are defaulting to their general practitioner if they can't find advice somewhere else, so that's why there's the information we're providingthrough general practice to signpost people, so those pathways haven’t been closed off. It's about making sure that people have alternative means that they’re prepared to use at this point in time. If we go back towhere we started this evidence session, we were talking about the difficulty of families who don't want to engage in a traditional person-to-person contact or being in the same room as someone else or allowing peopleinto their home. So, there's a real challenge about how we make the service available, but then encourage people to take it up, so that we don’t see much greater harm that we have to try and resolve at a laterpoint.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. I've got a supplementary from Suzy Davies, and can I remind Ministers about concise answers, please? Suzy.Suzy Davies AM: Yes, thank you. Just as we're speaking aboutchildren and young people's mental health, I wonder if you can confirm whether you've seen the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child's reports about what they call the grave physical and psychological"}
{"doc_id":"doc_49","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: So {disfmarker} Hello . {vocalsound}Marketing: Good afternoon . Sorry I'm a little late .Project Manager: No problem .Marketing: Got stuck in the traffic .Project Manager: Okay . {vocalsound}UserInterface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: That's possible on uh this time of day . Starts at three o'clock . Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Uh , let mesee . Our fourth and last meeting . There he is . Yes . Okay this our last meeting . In this meeting we will discuss our final design . And we will do some evaluation about the , not only the product , but also the project .And then we're going to close the project today as well . So after this you will be uh free to go and uh spend all your money . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: And this uh design , detailed design meeting uh we will discuss uh the look-and-feel of the design , the usability interface design , and we will do the product evaluation . Um, in order to do that we have this agenda . We'll have the prototype presentation first . Then we will set up some evaluation cri um criteria . {vocalsound} Then we will look at the finance . Uh we will have to see ifeverything we wanna do is also possible within our budget . Because everything costs money , and the more functions you wanna have the more money it will cost . So we have to see if it fits within the twelve and ahalf Euro per remote . But we will see that later . Then we will do the project uh evaluation , and the closing after that .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: We've got forty minutes . So we will be finishedat half past three . But first um we will do the {disfmarker} this is prototype presentation . So , if some yeah if somebody wants step forward .Industrial Designer: Okay . Well this is what me and Richard came up with .The default spot for the on-off button . The mute button just below that . Then there's the volume and channel selectors . Simple plus-minus button . Uh we thought of a help button . If you hold it and you press anotherbutton , uh the help goes to the L_C_D_ screen . Then there's the zero to {disfmarker} one to zero buttons . A button for teletext . A button for the subtitles . And the company logo . So it's rather simple prototype .And uh we'll have to see from testing uh how the users take it .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Um , {vocalsound} is this the moment where we ask or can ask questions about the functionality ?User Interface: So{disfmarker} Yeah . Yeah .Industrial Designer: Sure uh just pop in at any time .Marketing: Um , when you're in teletext there usually are buttons where you just you just press it and you g go to the next teletext page.User Interface: Uh , that's just uh the normal uh as th as the normal uh remote controls uh {disfmarker} So um {disfmarker} You put it uh {disfmarker} you um came in uh page uh one hundred . Now you can use thenormal uh one to zero buttons .Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: And you {disfmarker} But you can also uh use the um button th for uh changing the the channel . S so uh the shifting uh button . Uh for uh yeahshif shifting up in uh on t on t uh teletext , and shifting uh down . So {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay . Okay . Um {disfmarker} Yeah .Project Manager: Okay . Uh but um I thought in a few meetings earlier we uh uh triedto keep it uh simple . Uh just a few buttons and large buttons .User Interface: Oh yeah ?Project Manager: But uh I think these are altogether quite a quite a few buttons . So I'm wondering if we if we neely {disfmarker}really need all of those buttons .User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I think if you look at most controls , they've got more buttons than this .Project Manager: That's right .User Interface:Yeah .Industrial Designer: And well the on-off button , it's it's a necessity .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: You can't drop that one . The volume and channel buttons , you need youobviously need those those .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: The mute button could be replaced uh by pressing the volume-down button twice . So we could cancel that one . I think the help button really isnecessaryUser Interface: Yeah yeah .Industrial Designer: because there's no other way to know when someone wants to know what a button does .Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: Uh , or you can build in uh whenyou press uh one button uh uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Long time . Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: If you put {disfmarker}User Interface: But m Yeah . We disc discuss that already . But uh wethink uh old people uh don't know that uh option . So uh they just put in uh put {vocalsound} press uh the button and uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah . Okay .Industrial Designer: Well , {vocalsound} you can'tleave out the number buttons I guess .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: And uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Uh teletext and subtitles are yeah necessary .Industrial Designer: And {disfmarker}{vocalsound}User Interface: Oh .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: So it's rather basic already .Marketing: Yeah . Think so . That's what I pointed out earlier . Ifyou just make a control for just the T_V_ there's just not much to gain here .Project Manager: Yep .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay . So we had somebody about th interfa Something about the design ofthe buttons there ?Industrial Designer: Yeah , they're {disfmarker}Project Manager: Just n normal plain buttons .User Interface: Yeah . Yeah ,Industrial Designer: It's rather hard to draw on the white-board .UserInterface: it {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: But they're supposed to be equal sized , round , with a with a little logo on it for the for the volume , the the triangle and stuff .Project Manager: Yeah . 'Kay .UserInterface: Yeah yeah . Just to recognise it , so uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Just for recognition .User Interface: Uh yeah and now we don't need uh LEDs or um {disfmarker} Y uhProject Manager: No .UserInterface: s some uh remote controls uh do it also ,Project Manager: No .User Interface: but um uh because we use the little display we don't uh have to use it . Uh so {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah . Okay.Industrial Designer: So and for the materials we've just chosen for rubber buttons . With a a different colour than the case .User Interface: Nay .Project Manager: Yep .Industrial Designer: So they jump out .ProjectManager: Okay .Industrial Designer: And uh that's about it .Project Manager: That's nice . Then because we only have thirty minutes left , I will move on to the finance part , which is pretty exciting , to see if it's allpossible what we wanna do . And I can tell you that we're going to have a pretty hard time producing this for twelve and a half Euros .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: If we see{disfmarker} I don't know if I've filled in correctly , so just correct me if you see uh something wrong . I counted two batteries . But maybe we can also use one . I don't know if it's possible .Marketing: Since itrechargeable .Project Manager: It's rechargeable . That's right .User Interface: Yeah we can u just uh {gap} {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay . That's two Euros off . {vocalsound}User Interface: 'Kay .{vocalsound}Project Manager: We need the advanced chip . So there's not much to uh {vocalsound} to save there .Industrial Designer: Yep .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Here we have the single curves . Uh we cansee that the difference between uncurved and the single curved is one Euro . Um ,User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: I don't know , but I think the single curved is good for design , and also for the display to have aprominent place on the remote control .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: I think we have to keep that .Industrial Designer: Yes .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Then we have the case materialsupplements . It's plastic . It's the cheapest one we need . So that's uh not much to save either . But then the biggest costs are the buttons . So maybe we really should try to discard some buttons to uh keep our costslow .User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: Because you have to {disfmarker} we will have to get the twelve and a half Euros at the end . Um ,User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: so if we {disfmarker} Let's fir firstcount the buttons we have now .User Interface: Uh {disfmarker} Sixteen , I believe so .Project Manager: Because I {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Sixteen . Nah , that will be even more then . Eighteen Euros . So ,UserInterface: Uh seventeen . Uh with the help button .Project Manager: seventeen .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Um {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay , including the help ?Industrial Designer: Yep.Marketing: Damn .Project Manager: Yeah . Uh seventeen .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: I think we can uh discard the help and the mute button uh by pressing down volume long , or pressing down a anumber long .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {gap} .Industrial Designer: Yep .Project Manager: That saves us uh one Euro already . 'Cause then we have got fifteen I think ?Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Wouldn't {disfmarker}Project Manager: Fifteen buttons .Marketing: Yeah . No . That wouldn't be an option .Project Manager: And this is {disfmarker}Marketing: Uh , d I assume you'd count the volume andchannel thingies for two buttons each , right ?Project Manager: No those are one , I think .User Interface: Yeah . Where did uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: Well , think actually there're two buttons ,UserInterface: Uh , it's just one button .Marketing: aren't they ?User Interface: But , um {disfmarker} Yeah . There were uh two uh for one big button . But they are uh more expensive than the small ones . Uh , yeah . So{disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah but th it's not stated in this files .User Interface: It's just a {gap} .Project Manager: So maybe we can we can even make one button with the volume and the channel in one , bypressingMarketing: Well I was thinking , maybe you could just integrate three of those numbers to one button .Project Manager: That's possibility as well .Marketing: That would cut the cost .Project Manager: So{disfmarker} And it's good for the design as well . So you can make {disfmarker} Uh let's see . If you make this {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Looks a bit like uh a cross . {vocalsound} Plus . Min .User Interface: But Idon't don't know if if it's cheaper .Project Manager: Uh s yeah channel .User Interface: So uh ,Project Manager: Yeah wUser Interface: we've still got four buttons , but just um {disfmarker} So {disfmarker}ProjectManager: Yeah th I think they count uh the materials .User Interface: You got uh not not a butt button itself , but uh on the um {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah on the chip there . Yeah .User Interface: Yeah . Onthe chip you've got still uh four uh four buttons .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: That's right . That's right .User Interface: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: But I think because wehave the advanced chipMarketing: Yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound} we can just count this as one button .User Interface: Yeah , but {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} But , I think this really is four buttonsanyhow .Project Manager: But {disfmarker} No but I think {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yes .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah . Maybe it is , but then it seems to me that it's impossible to get the twelve and ahalf Euros . Also the L_C_ display , I think it's , I think it's too expensive for the display we use .Marketing: Yes .Industrial Designer: Uh that's that's a big cost .Project Manager: I think they uh try tIndustrial Designer:If we leave out the display we can also save money on the chip .Project Manager: That's right , but what's the big advantage of our remote then ? {vocalsound}Marketing: Only the docking station , I guess .ProjectManager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Which isn't the {disfmarker} the docking station isn't even in this c s schematic .Project Manager: No .Industrial Designer: So it's not even taken into the price .Project Manager:That's extra . {vocalsound} That's extra . That's right .Marketing: Maybe we should to a different supplier .Project Manager: {vocalsound} That's an option .Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Yeah .ProjectManager: Poland . Something . {vocalsound} Polish supplier . Don't you think we can , if we can count this as v as one button , and integrate th uh these buttons in three , then we save a lot of money as well .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound} We we could save money on it . But would it make the remote more usable for elderly people ?User Interface: {gap} .Marketing: Yeah , that's what I'm wondering . {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: My mother can't even send send an S_M_S_ message .Project Manager: Yeah . That's a point .Industrial Designer: So {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} Are we gonna buy a um a remote control uhwhen you can uh use it ?Marketing: Um {disfmarker}User Interface: So um {disfmarker} Yeah . We m uh we must um stay below the um below um twelve uh fifty or {disfmarker} Can't uh go um {disfmarker}ProjectManager: Yep .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: No .Marketing: Well , since the market research indicated that older people spend their money easier , more easy , maybe it's feasible to just put the price ofthe remote up a little . Especially since we have those nice features .User Interface: Nay .Project Manager: Yeah but uh we have to stick to the twelve and a half Euros . We don't have any more budget to develop it.User Interface: Is it impossible to {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: The margin will get too small . Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah . So {disfmarker}User Interface: But it is possible to make one uh for uh twelve fifty.Project Manager: It is . If you leave out the L_C_ display . And if you use less buttons . Say {disfmarker} Or you can take the single chip .User Interface: I don't think so .Marketing: It would be a be a pretty rigid one.User Interface: S Yeah . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: But , you can't use uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Ten .Project Manager: There it is . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}Project Manager: But then w Good looking .User Interface: Uh , wi with n Oh , with uh attractive uh o options .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: So uh , you can stay uh below uh twelvefifty . So {disfmarker}Project Manager: I think it's uh difficult as well ,Marketing: Or bProject Manager: but {disfmarker}Marketing: Basically becoming a choice between like either a good remote and a higherproduction cost , or just any other remote control .Industrial Designer: No remote . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Or we can leave out the ten buttons and take one scroll wheel for the programme numbers . ThenwUser Interface: Scroll-wheel's one .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} That's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Because then we save ten buttons .User Interface: No , it {disfmarker}Project Manager: Then we have fiveand one .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: And and see . If we have this one and we've got the advanced {disfmarker} W uh , we're getting close . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: We're getting closer .UserInterface: Yeah . {vocalsound}Marketing: But how does scroll-wheel work here ?Project Manager: Then you will {disfmarker} Or maybe you can um scroll . If you scroll you will see the numbers on the L_C_D_ display .Until you've got the right number , then you push it .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: That would bring up the price of the scroll-wheel also . Integrated scroll-wheel push-button .Project Manager: Alright . It'sgotta scroll and push .User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: Okay but then you you can push uh some other button as well .Marketing: But {disfmarker} Yeah .Industrial Designer: You could just not scroll for a half asecond .Project Manager: Yeah . That's right . So if you scroll to a number and then you wait a half second , then it g turns to that channel .Industrial Designer: So you won't need a button .Marketing: I think that wouldbe like the end of our usability .Project Manager: {vocalsound} But it would definitely crop cost , a lot .User Interface: D yeah . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah , but{disfmarker} {vocalsound}Project Manager: And we need the battery . {vocalsound} And the regular chip is not possible ? It has to be advanced ?Industrial Designer: If you want to use an L_C_D_ screen you you needan advanced chip , yes .Project Manager: It has to be advanced . Yeah . Okay .User Interface: Hmm .Project Manager: And we can save a Euro by a flat design . That's an option we can {disfmarker}User Interface: Jaja .Industrial Designer: Yep .Project Manager: Then we're almost there .Industrial Designer: Yeah if you v could just leave out one more button .Project Manager: Yeah . So if we {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah , orwe have to uh skip the subtitle uh button .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah but I think that's {disfmarker} That is a big advantage ,User Interface: So {disfmarker} Yeah {disfmarker}Project Manager:if we're {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah it's a big advantage .Project Manager: But {disfmarker}User Interface: But um , it's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Can we use {disfmarker} can't we integrate the teletext andthe subtitles in one button ?User Interface: Uh , yeah .Industrial Designer: I think so . Yeah .Project Manager: If you push it three times ?Marketing: Well , think it's pretty much the teletext subtitles areUser Interface:Yeah .Marketing: right now you just push the teletext button , go to page eight eight eight ,Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: and teletext disappears . But the subtitles stay there .User Interface:{gap} {disfmarker} But if you push the teletext button twice {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} What if you have to scroll to page eighty eight ? Eight hundred eighty eight . {vocalsound}Marketing: I thinkthat's the case on most {disfmarker}User Interface: It's uh {disfmarker} One m uh one b uh , a few buttons .Project Manager: Ah that's not really that {disfmarker}Marketing: Well , that could be just uh like the scrollto eight , click , scroll to eight , click , scroll to eight , click .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Okay .Marketing: But then again that would be d j just pretty much not an option for older people ,Industrial Designer: No.Marketing: who don't even know what a scroll-wheel is .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: No .Marketing: Holding a remote with {vocalsound} which they expect to have like ten buttons for the numbers one tozero .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: With only five buttons on it . And a scroll-wheel .Project Manager: I think if you make a good advertisement uh on television and in the in the guide , you can explainto the people how to use the scroll wheel . If you just make it real simple . Because it saves it saves a lot of money . And we can keep our L_C_D_ screen , which can provide extra information . How to use the scrollwheel . How to use the other bu buttons as subtitles .Marketing: True . True .User Interface: Hmm .Project Manager: And it's good for the innovative design as well . If you would erase these . Mm eraser ? And we putuh {disfmarker} Looks a bit odd maybe . {vocalsound}Marketing: That's a pretty big scroll wheel .Project Manager: That is {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Something like that .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager:Then , yeah . We've got the scroll-wheel . One , two , three , four , five buttons , if we erase this one . And these are two buttons then .Industrial Designer: We could make two buttons out of that . And just um{disfmarker} If you press the volume button you can control the volume with the scroll-wheel .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: So that would save two buttons . If you do the same for the channel .ProjectManager: Yeah . That's really a good good idea , I think . And it will make the use of the scroll wheel uh more obvious indeed .Industrial Designer: More obvious .Project Manager: So we make one for the volume , onefor the channel . Plus scroll . That's right .Industrial Designer: So if we {disfmarker}Project Manager: So we've got one , two , three . Yeah , we can leave the teletext in if we want . That's m that's better .UserInterface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah . So {disfmarker}Marketing: So this is five buttons .Industrial Designer: If we leave out all those buttons , perhaps you can go with the flat flat case . And make it smalleroverall .Project Manager: Y yeah .Industrial Designer: So if you put the the volume and channel buttons on the same height as the on-off button , the screen right behi under that , than the scroll buttonProject Manager:"}
{"doc_id":"doc_50","qid":"","text":"Grad A: OK , we 're on .Professor B: Yeah .Grad A: So , I think this is gonna be a pretty short meeting because I have four agenda items , three of them were requested by Jane who is not gonna be at the meetingtoday .  So . {vocalsound} The uh first was transcription status . Does anyone besides Jane know what the transcription status is ?PhD F: Um , sort of , I do , peripherally .PhD C: Is that English ?PhD F: Um{disfmarker} Well first of all with IBM I got a note from Brian yesterday saying that they finally made the tape for the thing that we sent them a {pause} week or week and a half agoPhD D: That 's our system .Grad A:Ugh !PhD F: and that it 's gone out to the transcribers and hopefully next week we 'll have the transcription back from that .Grad A: C can I have a pen ?PhD F: Um {disfmarker} Jane seems to be um moving right alongon the transcriptions from the ICSI side . She 's assigned , I think probably five or six m more meetings .PhD C: Yeah , I think we 're up to MR thirteen or something .PhD D: Mmm .PhD F: Yeah , so um , I guess she 'shired some new transcribersPhD D: Speaking {disfmarker}Grad E: Which meetings is she transcribing ?PhD F: and {disfmarker} Um well we 've {disfmarker} we 've run out of E D Us because a certain number of themare um , sort of awaiting to go to IBM .Grad E: OK .PhD C: For IBM , yeah .PhD D: Hmm .Grad E: OK .PhD F: and the rest are in process being transcribed uh here .PhD D: So does she have transcribers right now whoare basically sitting idle because there 's no data back from IBMGrad E: So we 're doing some in parallel .Grad A: Yep .PhD F: No .Grad A: No , no .PhD F: Oh no no .Grad A: We haven't done that process .PhD D: no?PhD F: No . We 're not waiting on them .Grad A: So . They ' r they 're doing the full transcription process .PhD D: Oh . Oh , OK .Grad E: So they 're just doing their own thing until {disfmarker}PhD F: Yeah .PhD D:Because I {disfmarker} I need to ask Jane whether it 's {disfmarker} it would be OK for her {disfmarker} um , s some of her people to transcribe uh some of the initial data we got from the SmartKom data collection ,which is these short like five or seven minute sessions .PhD F: We 're doing it in parallel , yeah .Grad E: OK .PhD C: Yep .PhD D: Um and we want it {disfmarker} You know , we need {disfmarker} The {disfmarker}Again , we {disfmarker} we have a similar uh logistic set - up where we are supposed to send the data to MunichGrad A: Right .PhD D: and get it transcribed and get it back . But to get going we would like some of thedata transcribed right away so we can get started .Grad A: Yep , sounds familiar .PhD D: And so um I wanted to ask Jane if {disfmarker} if uh , you know , maybe one of their transcribers could {disfmarker} could do{disfmarker} I mean since these are very short , that should really be uh ,Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD D: um {disfmarker} It 's {disfmarker}PhD C: There 's only two channels . So it 's only {disfmarker} Yeah .PhD D:Yeah .PhD C: As the synthesis doesn't have to be transcribed I think .PhD D: It 's only two {disfmarker} Right , sPhD C: So .PhD D: Yeah . So {disfmarker} So it 's basically one channel to transcribe . And it 's{disfmarker} One session is only uh like seven {disfmarker}Professor B: So that should have ma many fewer {disfmarker} And it 's also not uh a bunch of interruptions with people and all that ,PhD D: Right . And someof it is read speech , so we could give them the {disfmarker} the thing that they 're readingProfessor B: right ? So . Yeah .PhD D: and they just may {disfmarker}Grad A: Make sure it 's right .PhD C: Yep .PhD D: Andso um , um , I guess since she 's {disfmarker} I was gonna ask her but since she 's not around I {disfmarker} maybe I 'll {disfmarker}Professor B: Yeah , well it certainly seems {disfmarker}PhD D: Uh if {disfmarker}if that 's OK with you to {disfmarker} to , you know , get that stuff uh {disfmarker} to ask her for that , then I 'll do that .Professor B: Yeah . Yeah , if we 're held up on this other stuff a little bit in order to encompassthat , that 's OK because I I um , I mean I still have high hopes that the that the IBM pipeline 'll work out for us , so it 's {disfmarker}PhD D: Yeah . OK , yeah .Professor B: Yeah .PhD D: Alrighty .PhD F: Oh , yeah , andalso related to the transcription stuff , so I 've been trying to keep a web page uh up to date f showing what the current status is of the trans of all the things we 've collected and what stage each meeting is in , in termsof whether it 's {disfmarker}Grad A: Can you mail that out to the list ?PhD F: Mm - hmm , yeah I will . I {disfmarker} That 's the thing that I sent out just to foo people saying can you update these pagesGrad A: Oh ,OK , OK .PhD F: and so that 's where I 'm putting it but I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll send it out to the list telling people to look at it .Grad A: Yeah , I haven't done that . So . I have lots of stuff to add that 's just in my owndirectory .PhD F: Yeah .Grad A: I 'll try to get to that . OK . So Jane also wanted to talk about participant approval , but I don't really think there 's much to talk about . I 'm just gonna do it . And uh , if anyone objectstoo much then they can do it instead .Professor B: You are going to {disfmarker}Grad A: I 'm gonna send out to the participants , uh , with links to web pages which contain the transcripts and allow them to {pause}suggest edits . And then bleep them out .Professor B: OK .Grad A: For the ones that we have . Um {disfmarker}PhD C: So but it 's just transcripts , not the {disfmarker} not the audio ?Grad A: Nope , they 'll haveaccess to the audio also .PhD C: OK , yeah , yep . Ah .Grad A: I mean that 's my intention . Because the transcripts might not be right .PhD C: Yeah .PhD F: So {disfmarker}Grad A: So you want people to be able tolisten to them .PhD C: Yeah .PhD F: So , um the audio that they 're gonna have access to , will that be the uncompressed version ? Or will you have scripts that like uncompress the various pieces and {disfmarker}GradA: Oh , that 's a good point . That 's a good point . Yeah , it 's {disfmarker} it 's probably going to have to be the uncompressed versions because , uh , uh , it takes too long to do random access decompression .PhD F:Hmm . Yeah , I was just wondering because we 're uh running out of the un - backed - up disk space onGrad A: Well , that was the other point .PhD F: Oh , was that another one ?Grad A: Yep , that 's another agendaitem .PhD F: OK . I 'll wait .Grad A: So , uh {disfmarker} But that is a good point so we 'll get to that , too . Um , DARPA demo status , not much to say . The back - end stuff is working out fine . It 's more or less readyto go . I 've added some stuff that uh indes indexes by the meeting type MR , EDU , et cetera and also by the user ID . So that the front - end can then do filtering based on that as well . Uh {disfmarker} The back - endis uh , going more slowly as I s I think I said before just cuz I 'm not much of a Tcl - TK programmer . And uh Dave Gelbart says he 's a little too busy . So I think Don and I are gonna work on that and {disfmarker} andyou and I can just talk about it off - line more .Grad E: Right .Grad A: But uh {pause} the back - end was pretty smooth .Professor B: OhGrad A: So I think , we 'll have something . It may not be as {disfmarker} Aspretty as we might like , but we 'll have something .Professor B: I wondered whe when we would reach Dave 's saturation point . He 's sort of been {disfmarker} been volunteering for everythingGrad A: Yeah .ProfessorB: and {pause} and uh {disfmarker}PhD D: Mm - hmm .Professor B: O K . Finally said he was too busy . I guess we reached it .Grad A: Yeah , he {disfmarker} he actually {disfmarker} he volunteered but then he sthen he retracted it . So . Oh well . Um {disfmarker}Grad E: And , also um , I was just showing Andreas , I got um an X Waves kind of display , and I don't know how much more we can do with it {disfmarker} with likethe prosodic stuff where we have like stylized pitches and signals and the transcripts on the bottomGrad A: Oh , cool .Grad E: so , right now it 's just an X Waves and then you have three windows but I don't know , itlooked pretty nice and I 'm sure it {disfmarker} think it has potential for a little something ,Grad A: For a demo ?Grad E: yeah , for a demo .Grad A: Yeah , sounds good .Grad E: So {disfmarker}Professor B: OK , soagain , the issue is {disfmarker} For July , the issue 's gonna be what can we fit into a Windows machine , uh , and so on , but {disfmarker}Grad E: Oh . OK .Grad A: So it might just be slides .Grad E: Yeah , OK .PhD C:Well {disfmarker} {pause} Yeah .Grad E: Well , we 'll see , um {disfmarker}PhD C: I 've been putting together uh Transcriber things for Windows so i And I installed it on Dave Gelbart 's PC and it worked just fine . Sohopefully that will work .PhD D: Really ? So is that {disfmarker} Because there 's some people um {disfmarker} It would be cool if we could uh get that to work uh at {disfmarker} at SRIPhD C: Yeah . Yep .PhD D:because the um {disfmarker}Grad A: Well Transcriber is Tcl - TK , very generic with Snack ,PhD D: we have m m We have more Windows machines to run the {disfmarker}PhD C: Yeah .Grad A: so basically anythingyou can get Snack to run on , it will work .PhD D: Right .PhD C: Yeah . Yeah but {disfmarker} But the problem is the version Transcriber works with , the Snack version , is one point six whatever and that 's notanymore supported . It 's not on {disfmarker} on the web page anymore . But I just wrote an email to {disfmarker} to the author of {disfmarker} to the Snack author and he sent me to one point six whateverlibraryGrad A: Well I thought it was packaged with Transcriber ?PhD C: and so it works . Yeah , but then you can't add our patches and then the {disfmarker} the new version is {disfmarker} is totally differentGrad A:Oh .PhD C: a and in {disfmarker} yeah , in terms of {disfmarker} of the source code .Grad A: Ah .PhD C: You {disfmarker} you can't find the Tcl files anymore . It 's some whatever wrapped thingPhD D: Mmm .PhD C:and you can't {disfmarker} you can't access that so you have to install {disfmarker} First install Tcl then install Snack and then install the Transcriber thing and then do the patches .Grad A: Patch . Ugh !PhD D: I{disfmarker} I wonder if {disfmarker} if we should contribute our changes back to the authors so that they maintain those changes along {disfmarker}PhD C: Yeah . Yeah .Grad A: We have {disfmarker} Yeah b it 'sjust hasn't made it into the release yet .PhD D: We have ? Oh . Oh , OK .PhD F: So did you um put the uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the NT version out on the uh Meeting Recorder page ? Or {disfmarker}PhD C: No , Ihaven't done that yet . I 'm {disfmarker} oh Nope . But I definitely will do that .Professor B: So , can some of the stuff that Don 's talking about somehow fit into this Uh , mean you just have a set of numbers that areassociated with the {disfmarker}Grad E: Yeah .PhD C: So {disfmarker}Grad E: Yeah , it 's basically ASCII files or binary files , whatever representation . Just three different {disfmarker} It 's a waveform and just astylized pitch vector basically so it 's {disfmarker}PhD D: So {disfmarker} So {disfmarker} Well {disfmarker}Grad E: I mean we could do it in Matl - {comment} I mean you could do it in a number of different places I'm sure .PhD D: But {disfmarker} But it would be cool if the Transcriber interface had like another window for the {disfmarker} you know , maybe above the waveform where it would show some arbitrary valuedfunction that is {disfmarker} that is you know time synchron ti ti time synchronous with the wavform .PhD C: Yep .Grad E: Yeah .Professor B: Yes .Grad E: Yeah , that 'd be very cool .Grad A: It 'd be easy enough toadd that . Again it 's {disfmarker} it 's {pause} It 's more Tcl - TGrad E: Yeah .Grad A: So someone who 's familiar with Tcl - TK has to do it ,PhD D: Right .Grad A: but uh , it wouldn't be hard to do .PhD D: Right . Butit would almost be like having another waveform displayed .Grad A: Yep .PhD C: Yep .PhD D: SGrad E: Mm - hmm .PhD D: Right .PhD C: Yeah . Yeah , maybe we could l look into that .Grad E: Yeah .Grad A: But it{disfmarker} it seems to me that I cPhD C: And {disfmarker}Grad A: It doesn't seem like having that real time is that necessary . So yo It seems to me you could do images .Grad E: Um {pause} What do you mean byreal time ? Do you mean like {disfmarker}PhD F: Like being able to scroll through it and stuff for the demo .Grad E: OK .Grad A: Yeah , jus Yeah .PhD F: Is that what you mean ?Grad A: It just seems to me jusGrad E:It would be cool to see it {disfmarker}PhD F: Yeah .Grad E: It would be cool like to see {disfmarker} to hear it and see it ,PhD C: And to hear it . Yeah . Yeah .Grad E: and see the pitch contours also .Grad A: Sure , butI don't think {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} You can do all that just statically inPhD C: Yeah .Grad E: I think it would lose {disfmarker} Yeah , I mean yGrad A: Just record the audio clip and show an image and I think that's {disfmarker}Grad E: Right , right . I just thought if you meant slides I thought you meant like just {pause} like {pause} um view graphs or something .Professor B: You know , wh Yeah . So . Uh , no , we 're talkingabout on the computer and {disfmarker} and um , I think when we were talking about this before we had littl this little demo meeting ,Grad E: Right .Professor B: we sort of set up a range of different degrees ofliveness that you could have and , {vocalsound} the more live , the better , but uh , given the crunch of time , we may have to retreat from it to some extent . So I think {disfmarker} {pause} For a lot of reasons , Ithink it would be very nice to have this Transcriber interface be able to show some other interesting signal along with itPhD D: Mm - hmm .Professor B: so it 'd be a good thing to get in there . But , um {disfmarker}Anyway , jus just looking for ways that we could actually show what you 're doing , uh , in {disfmarker} {pause} to people .Grad E: Mm - hmm .Professor B: Cuz a lot of this stuff , particularly for Communicator , uhcertainly a significant chunk of the things that we waved our arms about th originally had t had to do with prosodics It 'd be nice to show that we can actually get them and see them .PhD D: Mmm .Grad E: Mm - hmm.Grad A: And the last i item on the agenda is disk issues yet again . So , we 're doing OK on backed up . We 're {disfmarker} We 're only about thirty percent on the second disk . So , uh , we have a little bit of timebefore that becomes critical , but we are like ninety five percent , ninety eight percent on the scratch disks for the expanded meetings .PhD C: Yeah .Grad A: And , my original intention was like we would just deletethem as we needed more space , but unfortunately we 're in the position where we have to deal with all the meeting data {pause} all at once , in a lot of different ways .PhD C: Yeah .PhD F: Oh there 's a lot oftranscribers , too .Grad A: Yeah , there 're a lot of transcribers ,PhD C: Yeah .Grad A: so all of those need to be expanded , and then people are doing chunking and I want to do uh , uh , uh , the permission forms ,PhDF: Mm - hmm .PhD C: AnPhD F: Right .Grad A: so I want those to be live , so there 's a lot of data that has to be around . Um {disfmarker} And Jane was gonna talk to , uh , Dave Johnson about it . One of the things Iwas thinking is we {disfmarker} we just got these hundred {disfmarker} alright , excuse me {disfmarker} ten , uh SPARC - Blade SUN - Blades .Professor B: Did they come in ?PhD F: SUN - Blades .PhD D: Yeah .PhDF: Yeah . They came in the other day .Grad A: They came in but they 're not set up yet .Professor B: Oh .Grad A: And so it seems to me we could hang scratch disk on those {pause} because they 'll be in the machineroom , they 'll be on the fast connection to the rest of the machines . And if we just need un - backed - up space , we could just hang disks off them .PhD F: Well , is there {disfmarker} Why not just hang them off ofAbbott , is there a {disfmarker}Grad A: Because there 's no more room in the disk racks on Abbott .Professor B: Yeah .PhD F: Ah .Professor B: Weren't we gonna get {disfmarker}PhD F: Ah , I see .Professor B: Well ,maybe it should get another rack .PhD D: But you still need to store the disks somehow .Grad A: Well , but the SUN - Blades have spare drive bays .PhD D: So {disfmarker}Grad A: Just put them in .PhD F: You can puttwo {disfmarker}PhD D: Oh you mean you put them inside the pizza boxes for the {disfmarker}Grad A: Sure .PhD C: Internal . Yeah .Grad A: Yeah . Cuz the SUN {disfmarker} uh , these SUN - Blades take commodityhard drives .PhD D: Oh .Grad A: So you can just go out and buy a PC hard drive and stick it in .PhD D: Mmm .Professor B: But if Abbott is going to be our disk server it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} file server{comment} it seems like we would want to get it , uh , a second disk rack or something .PhD D: Plus we 're talking about buying a second dis uh , file server .Grad A: Well , I mean there are lots of long term solutions .What I 'm looking for is where do we s expand the next meeting ?PhD C: Yep .PhD D: I see {vocalsound} {pause} Oh , I see .Professor B: Well , for the next meeting you might be out of luck with those ten , mightn'tyou ? Uh , you know Dave Johnson is gone for , like , ten days ,Grad A: Oh , I didn't know he had left already .Professor B: Uh , well , tonight .Grad A: Oh , oh well .PhD D: You mean he won't set up the {disfmarker}mmm .Professor B: I don't know .Grad E: How much space do you need for these ?Professor B: I don't know what his schedule is .Grad A: You {disfmarker} we need about a gig per meeting .Professor B: I 'm justsaying he 's gone .PhD C: Yep .PhD F: I {disfmarker} I thiGrad E: I have um {disfmarker} I have an eighteen gig drive hanging off of my computer .Grad A: Alright ! What 's your computer 's name ?Grad E: So{disfmarker} Uh , Samosa .Professor B: You had an eighteen gigabyte drive .Grad E: Yeah , I had . Well it 's about {disfmarker} I think there 's about twelve gig left .Grad A: So it {disfmarker} And you have an Xdrives installed ? OK .Grad E: Yeah . So , I didn't realize it was so critical .Grad A: And you 're o you 're offering ?Grad E: I mean I 'm not doing anything on it right now until I get new meetings to transcri or that are{disfmarker} new transcriptions coming in I really can't do anything .Grad A: OK .Grad E: Um not that I can't do anything , I jusPhD F: I {disfmarker} I jus I just gave Thilo some {disfmarker} about ten gigs , the lastten gigs of space that there was on {disfmarker} on uh Abbott . Uh {disfmarker} And uh {disfmarker} So but that {disfmarker} But {disfmarker}Grad A: Which one was that , X {pause} G ? X {pause} G ?PhD C: XG.PhD F: XG .Grad A: OK .PhD D: XG ?PhD F: Yeah .PhD D: That 's also where we store the {disfmarker} The uh Hub - five training set waveforms ,PhD C: Oops .Grad A: But that won't be getting any bigger ,PhD D:right ?PhD F: No .Grad A: will it ?PhD F: I don't think that 's on XG .PhD D: Right .PhD F: On XG is only Carmen and Du - and Stephane 's disk .PhD C: It 's {disfmarker} Yeah .PhD D: But I 've also been storing{disfmarker} I 've been storing the feature files there and I guess I can s start deleting some because we now know what the best features areGrad E: Well {disfmarker}PhD D: and we won't be using the old onesanymore .Grad E: I have a lot of space , though .PhD F: Yeah , I do I don't think it was on XG .PhD D: Uh {disfmarker} Oh thats XA {disfmarker} Oh that 's X {disfmarker}PhD C: Isn't that XH ?PhD F: I thGrad A: Not{disfmarker} not for long .Grad E: I have a lot of space and it 's not {disfmarker} it 's n There 's very little uh {disfmarker} Yeah not for long .PhD D: Maybe I 'm confuGrad E: But I mean it 's not going fPhD D: Oh no I'm sorry .Grad E: It 's not being used often at all .PhD C: But I 'm using XH {disfmarker} H , too .Grad A: Yeah , it 's probably {disfmarker} Probably only about four gig is on X {disfmarker} on your X drive ,PhD C: So.PhD D: Oh OK .Grad A: but we 'll definitely take it up if you {disfmarker}Grad E: I thPhD D: I think you 're right . It 's XH and D {disfmarker}Grad E: I think it 's about four or five gig cuz I have four meetings on there,PhD D: The b I 'm also using DG I got that confused .Grad E: three or four meetings .PhD D: OK .Grad A: Great .Grad E: So .Grad A: OK , so that will get us through the next couple days .Professor B: We need{disfmarker} We need another gigaquad .Grad A: Yep . At least .Professor B: There should {disfmarker} I d There should just be a b I should have a button .Grad A: The \" more disk space \" button ?Professor B: Justpress {disfmarker} Press each meeting saying \" we need more disk space \" {vocalsound} \" this week \" .Grad A: Yep .Professor B: Skip the rest of the conversation .PhD F: Well we 've collected so far something like uhsixty - five meetings .Professor B: And {disfmarker} And how much does each meeting take ?PhD F: And it 's about a gig uncompressed .PhD C: It 's {disfmarker} It 's a little bit more as I usually don't {disfmarker} do"}
{"doc_id":"doc_51","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Okay um , welcome to our detailed design meeting . I'm pretty excited . Let's start it's approximately fifteen forty or something like that . Okay um the agenda {disfmarker} we're gonna do an openingand then um I'll talk about the minutes from the last meeting , what we d discussed um , then we'll have the prototype presentation and a look at the evaluation criteria . We'll look at the finances and finally a{disfmarker} do a production evaluation and close . So , starting off with the um last {disfmarker} the last one , oh I don't have it here um , but we talked about energy , we're gonna use a kinetic battery um , we wantto use a simple chip , because we're not gonna need a a shuffle um , we're gonna need a scroll um , we're choosing a latex case w in fruity colours that's curved and um we're using push buttons uh with a supplement ofan on-screen menu . And it sounded like we had set um like eight or nine buttons , including five pre-set channels . Okay ? Let's do the look and feel design presentation first .User Interface: Right , do you wanna start?Industrial Designer: Right , well we made three different prototypes and I guess we'll start with with this one . Um we have our colours not {disfmarker} are not fixed , but this is the general shape . Um it's{disfmarker} you hold it sort of either like like this in your left hand or you switch it over and uh it's easily adaptable to either hand . You can push the buttons with your thumb like a mobile phone , or you can pushthem with your index finger of your other hand , or even {disfmarker} I mean there's a whole variety , you can hold it like this and press it with your same index finger . Uh we have the on off button at the tip , veryvisible , very big . We have our up and down buttons , which are also gonna be our channel selectors , and we have our little menu button here . If you push {disfmarker} if you're just pushing these normally , they'rethe menu buttons , if {disfmarker} uh the volume buttons rather . If you press select once , they become channel changing buttons . If we press select three times , the menu with the other features and pro possiblyalso with your T_V_ channel choices shows up , and you have your five presets down here . Um if people wanna grab hold of that , see how it feels in your hand . That's our number one prototype . Um do you wannapresent the potato ,Project Manager: {gap} like a little lightning in it .Industrial Designer: or shall I present the Martian ?User Interface: Okay ,Project Manager: The little lightning bolt in it , very cute .User Interface:um {disfmarker} What {disfmarker} We call that one the rhombus ,Marketing: I could {disfmarker}Project Manager: The v the rhombus rhombus ?User Interface: uh the rhombus .Industrial Designer: That's therhombus , yep .User Interface: Um this one is known as the potato , uh it'sIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: it's a {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: how can I present it ? It's anergonomic shape , so it it fits in your hand nicely . Um it's designed to be used either in your left hand or or in your right hand . Um I've gone here just for just for four buttons on this one . Um the two blue buttons hereare for adjusting the volume . So you've got volume up and volume down on the other side here . Um the red ones are for uh changing channels , channel up and channel down and that's um moves between yourfavourite channels that you've selected . Uh this middle button here brings up the on-screen menu and when you're working in the on-screen menu you use the other four buttons to navigate around the menu systemand the middle button uh to select and that's basically it , that's the potato .Project Manager: Um on , off ?User Interface: Uh that would be one of your channels , basically ,Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: solike channel zero would be t to switch switch the machine off ,Project Manager: Yeah we turn it off .User Interface: yeah .Marketing: Could the middle button of the on-screen menu function as a power button ?UserInterface: Um not really ,Industrial Designer: {gap}User Interface: it would make it hard to turn the machine off , to turn your T_V_ off .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: If you pressed and held itmaybe .User Interface: Yeah yeah , that that'd be one way of doing it , yeah . That'd work , yeah .Marketing: If you like held it down , that would be on off .Industrial Designer: Yeah . On off , that's a possibility , yeah.Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: And then finally we have um the Martian or the pear , either way . Um it's a bit different , just a little bit more of a creative feel . Uh you have the on off toggle stem on thetop . {vocalsound} We have the five preset seeds {vocalsound} .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} And then you have on the sides to make it a little bit more three-dimensional , youhave your channel changing , volume changing buttons and your menu button right here in the middle . So , that's for your consideration as well , plus it's an interesting talking point to have standing up .User Interface:Let's pass .Industrial Designer: We figured it could stand up like this on your table , if you wanted it to , if I made the bot the bottom flat . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh-huh . {vocalsound}Marketing: Sorry , what'sthe yellow one in the middle ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh the menu select button . {vocalsound}Marketing: I forgot .Project Manager: {gap} Very interesting . {vocalsound} I think that one's my favourite.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: So that's {disfmarker} So that's our three prototypes . Um basically , in terms of making decisions , what we'd need to do is first of all decide on a form uh which of thethree different shapes we want , then decide what kind of button layout we want , how many buttons , and then to choose what colours we want to make the buttons and if we wanna put any text on the device , likelabel on the buttons or put a brand name or or a logo on it or whatever .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: We were we were thinking that normally we'd go for fruity colours , butmaybe we're also thinking that your sort of middle aged man , for an example customer , might not want a fruity coloured remote , so m maybe we'd have one version that's a bit toned down ,Project Manager: Mm 'kay.Industrial Designer: maybe with with less contrasts on it . Yeah , something still a little bright to make it hard to lose , but {disfmarker}User Interface: Would {disfmarker} Yeah , but we don't want it to look like a kids'toy {gap} .Industrial Designer: {gap} yeah .Project Manager: Now that was one thing that we brought up over email . I don't know if you picked up your email , but um the f the um feature that we considered for it notgetting lost .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Right . Well we were we were talking about that a little bit when we got that email and we think that each of these are so distinctive , that it {disfmarker} it's notjust like another piece of technology around your house . It's gonna be somewhere that it can be seen .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: So we're we're not thinking that it's gonna be as critical to havethe loss {disfmarker}Marketing: But if it's like under covers or like in a couch you still can't see it .Project Manager: It's really {disfmarker} Would it be very difficult to um just have an external device that like I dunno ,you tape to your to your T_V_ um that when you press it you ha a little light beep goes off ? Do you think that would be conceptually possible ?Industrial Designer: I think {disfmarker}User Interface: I think it would bedifficult technologically ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: because if your if your remote's lost it's probably under the settee and in that case you can't you can't send an infrared sing signal to it to find it,Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: s so it's {disfmarker} I'm not quite sure how it would workProject Manager: That's true , mm 'kay .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: and then I wonder if it's if it's morejust a gimmick then anything else . Uh I mean ho how many times do you really , seriously lose your remote control and would would a device like that actually help you to find it ?Industrial Designer: There might besomething that you can do in the circuit board and the chip to make it make a noise or something , but it would take a lot more development than we have this afternoon .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Okay , that's afair evaluation . Getting lost . Um we {disfmarker} so we do we've decided not to worry about that for now . Okay 'cause {disfmarker} well , the designs are very bright , so you're right , they're gonna stick out , butum {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So d do people have a preference as far as feel and functionality ? Um .Marketing: I feel like this is simil {vocalsound} or it's sort of what already exists so if we're trying to think ofsomething sort of like new and fun , even though this is like what you're init I'm initially drawn to , just 'cause it's like comfortable and like not different . I sort of like this one , like I I don't know why , it just it's likesmall but still sort of like cute looking , I dunno . But I also like the b the side buttons on that one , like I think that's kind of neat .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: But I dunno how much any of this has to dowith the fashionable , sort of cool looking thing that we also need to focus on {vocalsound} .Project Manager: Could we maybe have like an extra button on the top for on off ? So then w we wouldn't have to have like adual function ?Industrial Designer: Mm yeah ,User Interface: Yeah , it's possible , yeah , yeah .Marketing: Ah ,Industrial Designer: that's good , that's good .Marketing: there we go .Industrial Designer: Here , stick it on.User Interface: {vocalsound} Put an extra the button on {gap} {vocalsound} .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Sure .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um uh why don't we do a productevaluation using your criteria , if you've developed some ?Marketing: Well do we w {vocalsound} like I think we're supposed to have one that we do it for .Project Manager: Oh okay . Okay .Marketing: That was{vocalsound} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So where {disfmarker}Marketing: I was a little vague on what exactly I'm supposed to do , but let me {disfmarker} I have to like write something on the whiteboard , so.Project Manager: Okay . Do you need thisIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: or just write on the white board ?Marketing: No , I actually don't have like a PowerPointy thing ,Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: Right .Marketing: 'cause I think it would be redundant .Industrial Designer: Okay .Marketing: I dunno .Project Manager: It's kind of like uh like a joystick kind of thing ,Industrial Designer:{vocalsound} Ooh .Project Manager: you know ,User Interface: {vocalsound} Cool .Project Manager: kinda push it {vocalsound} .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Hey .Project Manager: 'Kay .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Maybe a little smaller than that {gap} .Industrial Designer: No , I kinda like it .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: That's hard to miss .User Interface: It makes look morefruity as well .Project Manager: Oh it does ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: it's kind of like {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {gap} {vocalsound}User Interface: It's like adeformed foot , I dunno . {vocalsound}Project Manager: There it could have a stem like that , 'cause I do l kind of like the stem .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Like {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah . It almost helps you ge keep a grip too , 'cause it goes in between fingers {gap} .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer:Interesting .Project Manager: I like this one .Industrial Designer: Okay ,Project Manager: Variety of colours are nice .Industrial Designer: is that where people are leaning then , the potato ? I like the idea of the{disfmarker}Project Manager: I think I'm leaning towards the potato .Industrial Designer: I mean that's really gotten the simplicity of the buttons down , that one .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . I am worried about likeum using a menu . Um in that {disfmarker} like i withing menus there are submenus , and so how do you get back to the main menu ?Industrial Designer: Hmm .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Well that{disfmarker} on the iPod , for example , you just {disfmarker} every time you wanna go back you hit the menu button again and it brings you back one level .Project Manager: But that has a menu button separatefrom a select button , whereas if this one's both the menu and the select button ?User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Good point .User Interface: This is , it's {disfmarker} the up and down buttons are used forscrolling up and down for a list of choices .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: You find the choice that you want and you press uh you press the right button uh .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Could these be usedfor going to submenusMarketing: {gap}User Interface: Yeah . Yeah , so they're used for going into and out of your submenus , yeah .Project Manager: or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Maybe{disfmarker} yeah ,Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: maybe it can be one of those , if you press down and hold for two seconds , then it brings you back one level or something .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Okay . Well , as long as we have that in mind as we're designing it still , mm 'kay .Marketing: Okay , so which one are we sort of roughly looking at to address whether or not it meets our s um necessities , the yellowyone is that {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: The potato ? Are we leaning towards the potato ?User Interface: Potato .Project Manager: {vocalsound} I think so .Marketing: Okay , well we can obviously change it afterwe go through each different one .Industrial Designer: Okay .Marketing: So basically what we need to do is some of the things that we've talked about before we need to make sure that that remote actually doesconform to the things that we said it was going to .Industrial Designer: Okay .Marketing: So what we sort of wanna do is that we each need to separately rank each of the following things and then I'll tabulate anaverage just to make sure that it does meet that .Industrial Designer: Okay .Marketing: So we'll just go through them one at a time and we'll just go around and each of you can tell me on a scale of one to seven withone being really extremely true and seven being not true at all , or false , if the remote that we've created conforms to the following criteria . So we can do this one first . First we wanna know if it meets the fancy lookand feel um objective . So like in my opinion the {vocalsound} {disfmarker} for now at least , the yellow one is probably somewhere in the middle so I'm gonna say it's like a three . That's just my opinion .IndustrialDesigner: Yeah .Marketing: What does {vocalsound} each of you {disfmarker}Project Manager: I I kind of think it's it's unique enough that I'd give it a one or a two .Marketing: Okay , well give it a number ,ProjectManager: Okay .Marketing: sorry {vocalsound} .Project Manager: I will give it a one .Industrial Designer: Um I dunno if it's it's creative . I dunno if fancy is the word I would use . I dunno if any of them are fancy in{disfmarker} I'd say two , because c unique .Marketing: Okay .User Interface: I'll go for two .Marketing: And two , awesome . Alright , and same sort of scale for functionality , is it functional ? I think it's extremelyfunctional , I'm gonna give it a one .Industrial Designer: Yeah , one .Marketing: One ?User Interface: I think it's it's functional , it's also pretty basic , so I'll give it a two .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Umfunctional . I think it'll get everything done , I think it might be a little confusing at first , um , I don't know if that's gonna be a later one .Marketing: Okay . Well there's some other ones , I will address that ,ProjectManager: Okay , then I'm gonna give it a two .Marketing: yeah . Awesome , okay . Um we wanna know next if it's technologically innovative .Project Manager: Did you give a functional {gap} ?Marketing: Yeah , shesaid it was one .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Um is it technologically innovative ? Mm . Not really , I mean not so much , 'cause we we don't have the L_C_D_ screen , we don't have fancy chip . Other than what itlooks like , I dunno if it's really {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well , the kinetic battery .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} In the battery , that's it .Marketing: I kinetic battery is a big one , so .Industrial Designer: Howmany people would notice that , though ?Marketing: Mm . But it {disfmarker}Project Manager: But they'll notice it after like a year ,Marketing: but we know it's there .Project Manager: they'll be like hey , I have neverchanged the battery .Marketing: And if it's made of like latex , that whole idea , that's pretty cool .Project Manager: Mm . Just the material .Marketing: I'll give it a three . 'Cause it {disfmarker} we could've picked a lotof features that would've made it really {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah . I I would say that it's {disfmarker} Yeah , like fancy versus creative it's it's different . But does that equal innovative ? I dunno . I'll give ita three .Marketing: Alright . Everyone else ?User Interface: I'd say it's technologically it's not it's not unique , I mean it's it's just {disfmarker} it is just pushbuttons um , so I I'd give it a four .Project Manager: ThinkI'm gonna go with the four as well .Marketing: Mm 'kay .Project Manager: I really like that kinetic battery though .Marketing: Next , is it easy to use ? Just so you know , easy to learn will be separate ,Project Manager:Mm 'kay .Marketing: so don't overlap them .Industrial Designer: Okay .Marketing: I think it's really easy to use . I'll give it a two .Industrial Designer: Um I'll give it a one . Pretty hard to mess up .User Interface: I'll sayone .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh let's say two .Marketing: Alright . Um we next wanna see if it has a spongy qualityIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: and {vocalsound} ifindeed it's made of latex or rubber I {disfmarker} it's spongy all the way . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Give it a one .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: Iwonder if it bounces when you drop it .Industrial Designer: Ooh , that you couldn't {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: it'd be harder to break ,Project Manager: Mm.Industrial Designer: harder to lose . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: 'Cause there would be less impact maybe , {vocalsound} .Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: YeahMarketing: Iain , whatdo you give it ?User Interface: I'd I'd give it a one .Marketing: Alright and the next is , does it integrate some notion of fruits and vegetables {vocalsound} ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh um{vocalsound} .Marketing: Well , is it gonna be yellow ?Industrial Designer: It it might be , 'cause that's our corporate colour , isn't it ?Project Manager: That's right , yeah , corporate colour , we didn't keep that in{disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: um wellIndustrial Designer: We might wanna keep it yellow .Project Manager: if we {disfmarker} I know it would make it a little less c a little more confusing , but ifwe had all the buttons in black , and a design in {disfmarker} and the outside in yellow , that'd be our corporate one and we could also have alternative colours , one a more conservative one , one that's more fruity.User Interface: {gap}Marketing: Yeah , but if you had like a silvery kind of white or something .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah , {gap} {disfmarker}Project Manager: Um and can we have like an R_R_inscribed on the bottom or something ?Industrial Designer: If we had a yellow {disfmarker} Sure .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Oh , yeah .Project Manager: Fruity , so fruity .IndustrialDesigner: So {vocalsound}Marketing: Alright , so I think it it's {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: it was inspired by the potato , so I think it's pretty fruity .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: I think i it's kind of mangoeytoo .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Oh , mangoUser Interface: Mangoey is better , yeah .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Yes .Marketing: I {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: that that {vocalsound}{disfmarker}User Interface: I like mangoes {vocalsound} .Marketing: okay , I'm giving it a one {vocalsound} the mango {gap} put me over .Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: That's a much more trendy thana potato {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} What are {disfmarker} what's everyone's numbers ?Industrial Designer: one .User Interface: Uh two .Project Manager: One .Industrial Designer:"}
{"doc_id":"doc_52","qid":"","text":"Grad B: So I guess this is more or less now just to get you up to date , Johno . This is what , uh ,Grad C: This is a meeting for me .Grad B: um , Eva , Bhaskara , and I did .Grad D: Did you add more stuff to it ? {pause}later ?Grad B: Um . Why ?Grad D: Um . I don't know . There were , like , the {disfmarker} you know , @ @ and all that stuff . But . I thought you {disfmarker} you said you were adding stuffGrad B: Uh , no .Grad D:but {pause} I don't know .Grad B: This is {disfmarker} Um , Ha ! Very nice . Um , so we thought that , {vocalsound} We can write up uh , an element , and {disfmarker} for each of the situation nodes that weobserved in the Bayes - net ? So . What 's the situation like at the entity that is mentioned ? if we know anything about it ? Is it under construction ? Or is it on fire or something {pause} happening to it ? Or is it stable ?and so forth , going all the way um , f through Parking , Location , Hotel , Car , Restroom , @ @ {comment} Riots , Fairs , Strikes , or Disasters .Grad C: So is {disfmarker} This is {disfmarker} A situation are{disfmarker} is all the things which can be happening right now ? Or , what is the situation type ?Grad B: That 's basically {pause} just specifying the {disfmarker} the input for the {disfmarker} w what 'sGrad C: Oh , Isee y Why are you specifying it in XML ?Grad B: Um . Just because it forces us to be specific about the values {pause} here ?Grad C: OK .Grad B: And , also , I mean , this is a {disfmarker} what the input is going to be. Right ? So , we will , uh {disfmarker} This is a schema . This is {disfmarker}Grad C: Well , yeah . I just don't know if this is th l what the {disfmarker} Does {disfmarker} This is what Java Bayes takes ? as a Bayes -net spec ?Grad B: No , because I mean if we {disfmarker} I mean we 're sure gonna interface to {disfmarker} We 're gonna get an XML document from somewhere . Right ? And that XML document will say \" We areable to {disfmarker} We were able to observe that w the element , um , @ @ {comment} of the Location that the car is near . \" So that 's gonna be {disfmarker} {vocalsound} {comment} Um .Grad C: So this is thesituational context , everything in it . Is that what Situation is short for , shi situational context ?Grad B: Yep .Grad C: OK .Grad B: So this is just , again , a an XML schemata which defines a set of possible , uh ,permissible XML structures , which we view as input into the Bayes - net . Right ?Grad C: And then we can r {pause} uh possibly run one of them uh transformations ? That put it into the format that the Bayes n or JavaBayes or whatever wants ?Grad B: Yea - Are you talking {disfmarker} are you talking about the {disfmarker} the structure ?Grad C: Well it {disfmarker}Grad B: I mean when you observe a node .Grad C: When you{disfmarker} when you say {pause} the input to the {pause} v Java Bayes , {comment} it takes a certain format ,Grad B: Um - hmm .Grad C: right ? Which I don't think is this . Although I don't know .Grad B: No , it's certainly not this . Nuh .Grad C: So you could just {disfmarker} Couldn't you just run a {disfmarker}Grad B: XSL . {comment} Yeah .Grad C: Yeah . To convert it into the Java Bayes for format ?Grad B: Yep .Grad C:OK .Grad B: That 's {disfmarker} That 's no problem , but I even think that , um {disfmarker} I mean , once {disfmarker} Once you have this sort of as {disfmarker} running as a module {disfmarker} Right ? Whatyou want is {disfmarker} You wanna say , \" OK , give me the posterior probabilities of the Go - there {pause} node , when this is happening . \" Right ? When the person said this , the car is there , it 's raining , and thisis happening . And with this you can specify the {disfmarker} what 's happening in the situation , and what 's happening with the user . So we get {disfmarker} After we are done , through the Situation we get the UserVector . So , this is a {disfmarker}Grad C: So this is just a specification of all the possible inputs ?Grad B: Yep . And , all the possible outputs , too . So , we have , um , for example , the , uh , Go - there decisionnodeGrad C: OK .Grad B: which has two elements , going - there and its posterior probability , and not - going - there and its posterior probability , because the output is always gonna be all the decision nodes and allthe {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} a all the posterior probabilities for all the values .Grad C: And then we would just look at the , eh , Struct that we wanna look at in terms of if {disfmarker} if we 're only asking aboutone of the {disfmarker} So like , if I 'm just interested in the going - there node , I would just pull that information out of the Struct that gets return that would {disfmarker} that Java Bayes would output ?Grad B: Um ,pretty much , yes , but I think it 's a little bit more complex . As , if I understand it correctly , it always gives you all the posterior probabilities for all the values of all decision nodes . So , when we input something , wealways get the , uh , posterior probabilities for all of these . Right ?Grad C: OK .Grad B: So there is no way of telling it t not to tell us about the EVA {pause} values .Grad C: Yeah , wait I agree , that 's {disfmarker}yeah , use {disfmarker} oh , uh {pause} Yeah , OK .Grad B: So {disfmarker} so we get this whole list of {disfmarker} of , um , things , and the question is what to do with it , what to hand on , how to interpret it , in asense . So y you said if you {disfmarker} \" I 'm only interested in whether he wants to go there or not \" , then I just look at that node , look which one {disfmarker}Grad C: Look at that Struct in the output ,Grad B: Yep.Grad C: right ?Grad B: Look at that Struct in the {disfmarker} the output , even though I wouldn't call it a \" Struct \" . But .Grad C: Well i well , it 's an XML Structure that 's being res returned ,Grad B: Oh . Mm - hmm.Grad C: right ?Grad B: So every part of a structure is a \" Struct \" . Yeah .Grad C: Yeah , I just uh {disfmarker} I just was {disfmarker} abbreviated it to Struct in my head , and started going with that .Grad B: Thatelement or object , I would say .Grad C: Not a C Struct . That 's not what I was trying to kGrad B: Yeah .Grad C: though yeah .Grad B: OK . And , um , the reason is {disfmarker} why I think it 's a little bit morecomplex or why {disfmarker} why we can even think about it as an interesting problem in and of itself is {disfmarker} Um . So . The , uh {disfmarker} Let 's look at an example .Grad C: Well , w wouldn't we just takethe structure that 's outputted and then run another transformation on it , that would just dump the one that we wanted out ?Grad B: Yeah . w We 'd need to prune . Right ? Throw things away .Grad C: Well , actually ,you don't even need to do that with XML .Grad B: NoGrad C: D Can't you just look at one specific {disfmarker}Grad B: Yeah , exactly . The {disfmarker} @ @ {comment} Xerxes allows you to say , u \" Just give me thevalue of that , and that , and that . \" But , we don't really know what we 're interested in {pause} before we look at the complete {disfmarker} at {disfmarker} at the overall result . So the person said , um , \" Where isX ? \" and so , we want to know , um , is {disfmarker} Does he want info ? o on this ? or know the location ? Or does he want to go there ? Let 's assume this is our {disfmarker} our question .Grad C: Sure .Grad B: Nuh? So . Um . Do this in Perl . So we get {disfmarker} OK . Let 's assume this is the output . So . We should con be able to conclude from that that {disfmarker} I mean . It 's always gonna give us a value of how likely wethink i it is that he wants to go there and doesn't want to go there , or how likely it is that he wants to get information . But , maybe w we should just reverse this to make it a little bit more delicate . So , does he wannaknow where it is ? or does he wanna go there ?Grad C: He wants to know where it is .Grad B: Right . I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I tend to agree . And if it 's {disfmarker} If {disfmarker}Grad C: Well now , y I mean ,you could {disfmarker}Grad B: And i if there 's sort of a clear winner here , and , um {disfmarker} and this is pretty , uh {disfmarker} indifferent , then we {disfmarker} then we might conclude that he actually wantsto just know where , uh t uh , he does want to go there .Grad C: Uh , out of curiosity , is there a reason why we wouldn't combine these three nodes ? into one smaller subnet ? that would just basically be {pause} thequestion for {disfmarker} We have \" where is X ? \" is the question , right ? That would just be Info - on or Location ? Based upon {disfmarker}Grad B: Or Go - there . A lot of people ask that , if they actually just wannago there . People come up to you on campus and say , \" Where 's the library ? \" You 're gonna say {disfmarker} y you 're gonna say , g \" Go down that way . \" You 're not gonna say \" It 's {disfmarker} It 's five hundredyards away from you \" or \" It 's north of you \" , or {disfmarker} \" it 's located {disfmarker} \"Grad C: Well , I mean {disfmarker} But the {disfmarker} there 's {disfmarker} So you just have three decisions for the finalnode , that would link thes these three nodes in the net together .Grad B: Um . I don't know whether I understand what you mean . But . Again , in this {disfmarker} Given this input , we , also in some situations , maywanna postulate an opinion whether that person wants to go there now the nicest way , use a cab , or so s wants to know it {disfmarker} wants to know where it is because he wants something fixed there , because hewants to visit t it or whatever . So , it {disfmarker} n I mean {disfmarker} a All I 'm saying is , whatever our input is , we 're always gonna get the full output . And some {disfmarker} some things will always be sort oftoo {disfmarker} not significant enough .Grad C: Wha Or i or i it 'll be tight . You won't {disfmarker} it 'll be hard to decide .Grad B: Yep .Grad C: But I mean , I guess {disfmarker} I guess the thing is , uh , this isanother , smaller , case of reasoning in the case of an uncertainty , which makes me think Bayes - net should be the way to solve these things . So if you had {disfmarker} If for every construction ,Grad B: Oh !Grad C:right ? you could say , \" Well , there {disfmarker} Here 's the Where - Is construction . \" And for the Where - Is construction , we know we need to l look at this node , that merges these three things togetherGrad B:Mm - hmm .Grad C: as for th to decide the response . And since we have a finite number of constructions that we can deal with , we could have a finite number of nodes .Grad B: OK . Mm - hmm .Grad C: Say , if wehad to y deal with arbitrary language , it wouldn't make any sense to do that , because there 'd be no way to generate the nodes for every possible sentence .Grad B: Mm - hmm .Grad C: But since we can only deal witha finite amount of stuff {disfmarker}Grad B: So , basically , the idea is to f to feed the output of that belief - net into another belief - net .Grad C: Yeah , so basically take these three things and then put them intoanother belief - net .Grad B: But , why {disfmarker} why {disfmarker} why only those three ? Why not the wholGrad C: Well , I mean , d For the Where - Is question . So we 'd have a node for the Where - Is question.Grad B: Yeah . But we believe that all the decision nodes are {disfmarker} can be relevant for the Where - Is , and the Where {disfmarker} How - do - I - get - to or the Tell - me - something - about .Grad C: You cancome in if you want .Grad B: Yes , it is allowed .Grad C: As long as y you 're not wearing your h your h headphones . Well , I do I {disfmarker} See , I don't know if this is a {pause} good idea or not . I 'm just throwingit out . But uh , it seems like we could have {disfmarker} I mea or uh we could put all of the all of the r information that could also be relevant {pause} into the Where - Is node answerGrad B: Mm - hmm . Yep .Grad C:node thing stuff . And uh {disfmarker}Grad D: OK .Grad B: I mean {disfmarker} Let 's not forget we 're gonna get some very strong {pause} input from {pause} these sub dis from these discourse things , right ? So . \"Tell me the location of X . \" Nuh ? Or \" Where is X located at ? \"Grad C: We uGrad B: Nuh ?Grad C: Yeah , I know , but the Bayes - net would be able to {disfmarker} The weights on the {disfmarker} on the nodes in theBayes - net would be able to do all that ,Grad B: Mm - hmm .Grad C: wouldn't it ? Here 's a k Oh ! Oh , I 'll wait until you 're {pause} plugged in . Oh , don't sit there . Sit here . You know how you don't like that one . It's OK . That 's the weird one . That 's the one that 's painful . That hurts . It hurts so bad . I 'm h I 'm happy that they 're recording that . That headphone . The headphone {pause} that you have to put on backwards ,with the little {disfmarker} little thing {disfmarker} and the little {disfmarker} little foam block on it ? It 's a painful , painful microphone .Grad B: I think it 's th called \" the Crown \" .Grad C: The crown ?Grad D: What?Grad B: Yeah , versus \" the Sony \" .Grad A: The Crown ? Is that the actual name ? OK .Grad B: Mm - hmm . The manufacturer .Grad C: I don't see a manufacturer on it .Grad B: You wGrad C: Oh , wait , here it is . hThis thingy . Yeah , it 's \" The Crown \" . The crown of pain !Grad A: Yes .Grad B: You 're on - line ?Grad C: Are you {disfmarker} are your mike o Is your mike on ?Grad A: Indeed .Grad C: OK . So you 've been workingwith these guys ? You know what 's going on ?Grad A: Yes , I have . And , I do . Yeah , alright . s So where are we ?Grad C: Excellent !Grad B: We 're discussing this .Grad A: I don't think it can handle French , butanyway .Grad B: So . Assume we have something coming in . A person says , \" Where is X ? \" , and we get a certain {disfmarker} We have a Situation vector and a User vector and everything is fine ? An - an and{disfmarker} and our {disfmarker} and our {disfmarker}Grad C: Did you just sti Did you just stick the m the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the microphone actually in the tea ?Grad A: No .Grad B: And , um ,Grad A: I'm not drinking tea . What are you talking about ?Grad C: Oh , yeah . Sorry .Grad B: let 's just assume our Bayes - net just has three decision nodes for the time being . These three , he wants to know something aboutit , he wants to know where it is , he wants to go there .Grad C: In terms of , these would be wha how we would answer the question Where - Is , right ? We u This is {disfmarker} i That 's what you s it seemed like ,explained it to me earlierGrad B: Yeah , but , mmm .Grad C: w We {disfmarker} we 're {disfmarker} we wanna know how to answer the question \" Where is X ? \"Grad B: Yeah . No , I can {disfmarker} I can do theTiming node in here , too , and say \" OK . \"Grad C: Well , yeah , but in the s uh , let 's just deal with the s the simple case of we 're not worrying about timing or anything . We just want to know how we should answer \"Where is X ? \"Grad B: OK . And , um , OK , and , Go - there has two values , right ? , Go - there and not - Go - there . Let 's assume those are the posterior probabilities of that .Grad A: Mm - hmm .Grad B: Info - onhas True or False and Location . So , he wants to know something about it , and he wants to know something {disfmarker} he wants to know Where - it - is ,Grad A: Excuse me .Grad B: has these values . And , um,Grad C: Oh , I see why we can't do that .Grad B: And , um , in this case we would probably all agree that he wants to go there . Our belief - net thinks he wants to go there ,Grad A: Yeah .Grad B: right ?Grad A: Mm -hmm .Grad B: In the , uh , whatever , if we have something like this here , and this like that and maybe here also some {disfmarker}Grad A: You should probably {comment} make them out of {disfmarker} Yeah.Grad B: something like that ,Grad C: Well , itGrad B: then we would guess , \" Aha ! He , our belief - net , {comment} has s stronger beliefs that he wants to know where it is , than actually wants to go {pause} there .\" Right ?Grad C: That it {disfmarker} Doesn't this assume , though , that they 're evenly weighted ?Grad D: True .Grad C: Like {disfmarker} I guess they are evenly weighted .Grad A: The different decision nodes , youmean ?Grad C: Yeah , the Go - there , the Info - on , and the Location ?Grad A: Well , d yeah , this is making the assumption . Yes .Grad C: Like {disfmarker}Grad B: What do you mean by \" differently weighted \" ?They don't feed into anything really anymore .Grad A: But I mean , why do we {disfmarker}Grad C: Or I jusGrad A: If we trusted the Go - there node more th much more than we trusted the other ones , then we wouldconclude , even in this situation , that he wanted to go there .Grad C: LeGrad A: So , in that sense , we weight them equally right now .Grad B: OK . Makes sense . Yeah . But {disfmarker}Grad C: So the But I guess thek the question {disfmarker} that I was as er wondering or maybe Robert was proposing to me is {disfmarker} How do we d make the decision on {disfmarker} as to {disfmarker} which one to listen to ?Grad A: Yeah ,so , the final d decision is the combination of these three . So again , it 's {disfmarker} it 's some kind of , uh {disfmarker}Grad C: Bayes - net .Grad A: Yeah , sure .Grad C: OK so , then , the question i So then myquestion is t to you then , would be {disfmarker} So is the only r reason we can make all these smaller Bayes - nets , because we know we can only deal with a finite set of constructions ? Cuz oth If we 're just takingarbitrary language in , we couldn't have a node for every possible question , you know ?Grad A: A decision node for every possible question , you mean ?Grad C: Well , I {disfmarker} like , in the case of {disfmarker}Yeah . In the ca Any piece of language , we wouldn't be able to answer it with this system , b if we just h Cuz we wouldn't have the correct node . Basically , w what you 're s proposing is a n Where - Is node , right?Grad A: Yeah .Grad C: And {disfmarker} and if we {disfmarker} And if someone {disfmarker} says , you know , uh , something in Mandarin to the system , we 'd - wouldn't know which node to look at to answer thatquestion ,Grad A: So is {disfmarker} Yeah . Yeah .Grad C: right ?Grad B: Mmm ?Grad C: So , but {disfmarker} but if we have a finite {disfmarker} What ?Grad B: I don't see your point . What {disfmarker} what{disfmarker} what I am thinking , or what we 're about to propose here is we 're always gonna get the whole list of values and their posterior probabilities . And now we need an expert system or belief - net orsomething that interprets that , that looks at all the values and says , \" The winner is Timing . Now , go there . \" \" Uh , go there , Timing , now . \" Or , \" The winner is Info - on , Function - Off . \" So , he wants to know{pause} something about it , and what it does . Nuh ? Uh , regardless of {disfmarker} of {disfmarker} of the input . Wh - RegardleGrad C: Yeah , but But how does the expert {disfmarker} but how does the expertsystem know {disfmarker} how who which one to declare the winner , if it doesn't know the question it is , and how that question should be answered ?Grad B: Based on the k what the question was , so what thediscourse , the ontology , the situation and the user model gave us , we came up with these values for these decisions .Grad C: Yeah I know . But how do we weight what we get out ? As , which one i Which ones areimportant ? So my i So , if we were to it with a Bayes - net , we 'd have to have a node {disfmarker} for every question that we knew how to deal with , that would take all of the inputs and weight them appropriatelyfor that question .Grad B: Mm - hmm .Grad C: Does that make sense ? Yay , nay ?Grad A: Um , I mean , are you saying that , what happens if you try to scale this up to the situation , or are we just dealing witharbitrary language ?Grad C: We {disfmarker}Grad A: Is that your point ?Grad C: Well , no . I {disfmarker} I guess my question is , Is the reason that we can make a node f or {disfmarker} OK . So , lemme see if I 'mconfused . Are we going to make a node for every question ? Does that make sense ? {disfmarker}Grad A: For every question ?Grad C: Or not .Grad A: Like {disfmarker}Grad C: Every construction .Grad A: Hmm . Idon't {disfmarker} Not necessarily , I would think . I mean , it 's not based on constructions , it 's based on things like , uh , there 's gonna be a node for Go - there or not , and there 's gonna be a node for Enter , View, Approach .Grad C: Wel W OK . So , someone asked a question .Grad A: Yeah .Grad C: How do we decide how to answer it ?Grad B: Well , look at {disfmarker} look {disfmarker} Face yourself with this pr question .You get this {disfmarker} You 'll have {disfmarker} y This is what you get . And now you have to make a decision . What do we think ? What does this tell us ? And not knowing what was asked , and what happened ,and whether the person was a tourist or a local , because all of these factors have presumably already gone into making these posterior probabilities . What {disfmarker} what we need is a {disfmarker} just amechanism that says , \" Aha ! There is {disfmarker} \"Grad C: Yeah . I just don't think a \" winner - take - all \" type of thing is the {disfmarker}Grad A: I mean , in general , like , we won't just have those three , right ?"}
{"doc_id":"doc_53","qid":"","text":"The Chair (Hon. Anthony Rota (NipissingTimiskaming, Lib.)): I call this meeting to order. Welcome to meeting number 22 of the House of Commons Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic. A reminder to allmembers that in order to avoid issues with sound, members participating in person should not also be connected to the video conference. For those joining via video conference, I would like to remind you that, whenspeaking, you should be on the same channel as the language you are speaking. As usual, please direct your remarks through the chair. I understand we don't have any ministerial announcements today, so we'llproceed to presenting petitions. I would like to remind members that any petition presented during a meeting of the special committee must have already been certified by the clerk of petitions. For membersparticipating in person, we ask that they please come and drop the signed certificate off at the table once the petition is presented. The first petition will be presented by Ms.May.Ms. Elizabeth May (SaanichGulf Islands,GP): Mr. Chair, it's an honour to rise in meeting number 22 of the COVID-19 committee, otherwise known as something like the House of Commons. I'm here to present two petitions containing hundreds of signatureson the issue of the treatment of Falun Gong practitioners by the People's Republic of China, particularly the practice that's alleged of involuntary organ harvesting. The petitioners ask the Government of Canada tocondemn this practice and to publicly call for an end to the persecution of Falun Gong in the People's Republic of China. The second petition is from residents throughout SaanichGulf Islands concerned about what was,at the time this petition was submitted, a future problem. It remains an issue, and I present it on behalf of petitioners who wish the Government of Canada not to put public funds into purchasing or maintaining theTrans Mountain pipeline or towards any expansion of the pipeline.The Chair: Next we'll go to Ms. Kwan.Ms. Jenny Kwan (Vancouver East, NDP): Mr. Chair, I rise to table two petitions. The first petition deals with theCOVID-19 situation. The petitioners note the pandemic is having a devastating impact on many Canadians nationwide, especially those who have low to modest income, small business gig workers, freelancers, artists,film industry workers, non-salaried workers and individuals on fixed incomes such as seniors and those on disability. It further notes that rent, mortgage and utility payments are due at the end of each month, puttingcountless Canadians at risk of losing their housing. It is paramount there be safe self-isolation opportunities for all individuals in this country. To that end, the petitioners are calling for the government to immediatelyenact a nationwide rent freeze, eviction freeze, mortgage freeze and utility freeze, enforce mortgage deferrals for homeowners without penalty or interest charges from financial institutions and provide direct assistancein the form of a monthly, universal, direct payment of $2,000 per month for all, with an additional $250 per child immediately. The second petition deals with the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion. These petitionersjoin the hundreds of thousands of people who are opposed to the expansion. Trans Mountain, in building the pipeline, brings massive environmental and economic risk with no substantial benefit to British Columbia or tolocal residents. Approximately 40,000 barrels of oil have already leaked from existing Kinder Morgan pipelines, including two major spills in Burnaby since 2007. I might note, Mr. Chair, that just this past weekend therewas yet another spill to the tune of 1,195 barrels here in British Columbia. There is no known scientific technology to clean up the bitumen when there is a spill, and the number of tankers would go from eight to 34 permonth into the Burrard Inlet. It puts at risk many residential neighbourhoods and the traditional territories of at least 15 first nations.The Chair: May I interrupt for a moment, Ms. Kwan. I want to remind all members inthe House that when presenting a petition, the idea is to be as concise as possible. Ms. Kwan, I'll let you wrap up, please.Ms. Jenny Kwan: Thank you, Mr. Chair. The petitioners are calling for the government toimmediately act to prevent this new oil pipeline from proceeding through British Columbia.The Chair: Thank you. We'll now go to Mr. Genuis.Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood ParkFort Saskatchewan, CPC): Mr. Chair, Ihave four petitions to present today. The first petition reflects the outrage of my constituents at the ever-expanding order in council from the government banning more and more firearms. In particular, the petitionershighlight the failure of the government to act on the issue of illegal guns. The petitioners note that virtually all violent crimes committed in Canada, including the recent shooting in Nova Scotia, involve illegal firearms inthe hands of those who are already not permitted to possess them. The petition has two asks. First of all, it asks that we reverse the order in council banning certain firearms, but also that we propose measures that willeffectively address the illegal use of firearms by criminals while respecting the rights of law-abiding citizens. It also asks that we ensure that substantial changes to firearms laws in future actually be made byParliament, not by the government acting in an unaccountable manner. The second petition deals with Bill C-8, which is the government's bill around conversion therapy. The petitioners support efforts to ban conversiontherapy. They express concern about problems in the wording of the definition used in the legislation. They're asking the government to support amendments to fix the definition to address the issue of conversiontherapy and ensure that the definition is correct and doesn't criminalize certain forms of counselling that individuals may voluntarily enter into. The third petition is regarding Bill S-204, a bill in the Senate that seeks tomake it a criminal offence for a person to go abroad to receive an organ without consent, dealing especially with the horrific practice of forced organ harvesting and trafficking in China. The petitioners are supportive ofBill S-204 and want to see it move forward. The final petition is with respect to Bill C-7. There's been much discussion in this House about the need to do better in terms of long-term care. Rather than working to dobetter in long-term care, unfortunately we've seen the government removing vital safeguards in the area of euthanasia. I think our focus should be on assisting life rather than removing safeguards that are required inassociation with the euthanasia regime. The petitioners are particularly concerned about the government's plan to remove a 10-day reflection period that normally takes place. That period can already be waived undercertain circumstances, but Bill C-7 proposes to remove it entirely as well as reduce the number of witnesses involved. The petitioners are quite concerned about what's going on in Bill C-7 and call for it to be stopped oramended.The Chair: Presenting petitions. We'll proceed to statements by members. We'll start off with Mr. Manly.Mr. Paul Manly (NanaimoLadysmith, GP): Mr. Chair, we are in the midst of a global pandemic and aneconomic shock. Recent events have ripped open the wound of systemic racism in our country. Racialized and marginalized communities have been disproportionally affected by the pandemic. Thousands of seniors inlong-term care facilities have died. It is clear that we need system change. In the past, governments have bailed out banks and corporations because they were too big to fail. It is time to bail out humanity and theplanet. No one will be immune from the threat of climate change and mass extinction. Both are the result of the exploitation of the natural world in the name of the economy. Humans created the economy. We canchoose to change it. We must protect our environment or perish. COVID-19 has demonstrated that together we can take courageous action for the common good. We need to do the same for the climate crisis, becausehumanity and our planet are too big to fail.The Chair: We'll now go to Mr. Spengemann.Mr. Sven Spengemann (MississaugaLakeshore, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, today marks World Elder Abuse Awareness Day.Underestimated and under-reported, elder abuse exists across the world. At risk of neglect and assault, many of the most vulnerable older persons reside in our long-term care facilities. They are the seniors who havebuilt our country and shaped our communities, who have shown us resilience, courage and selflessness, who have made us stronger, and whose work and teachings continue to inspire us. They are parents andgrandparents, brothers and sisters, friends and mentors. We have not been there for them in the same way they've been there for us throughout their lives. The Canadian Forces report, alongside the climbingdisproportionate death toll in our long-term care facilities, has reconfirmed the ugly, indefensible reality of elder abuse and neglect in Canada. In my community, we mourn the deaths of 68 seniors from one long-termcare facility alone, Camilla Care. We must make the same unwavering commitment to older persons as they have shown to us. We must protect and uphold their human rights. We must do better.The Chair: Beforeproceeding, I just want to bring up to the members in the background that we want to keep it as simple and as parliamentary as possible in keeping it neutral. We'll now move to Mr. Barrett.Mr. Michael Barrett(LeedsGrenvilleThousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, CPC): During these trying times, the residents of LeedsGrenvilleThousand Islands and Rideau Lakes have risen to the challenge. They've made sacrifices and goneabove and beyond to make the lives of their neighbours better and to keep our communities safe. It would be impossible to list everyone who has emerged as a community hero, but I'd like to highlight a few, like Lily,an eight-year-old from Elgin who raised funds for her local food bank by building and selling squirrel picnic tables, and Louise Boardman from Spencerville who's making masks for long-term care facilities and sellingothers in support of the Breast Cancer Action centre. The Knights of Columbus in Prescott raised funds and are distributing some $27,000 in support of charitable groups throughout the region. The Knights of Columbusin Kemptville are working overtime operating the local food bank. Who can forget our top-notch health care workers like Hannah and Mary at the Brockville COVID-19 testing centre? It is the people ofLeedsGrenvilleThousand Islands and Rideau Lakes that make it so great. To everyone working to make a difference and to all of our essential workers, thank you.The Chair: Next is Mr. Anandasangaree.Mr. GaryAnandasangaree (ScarboroughRouge Park, Lib.): Mr. Chair, the Indian Act enshrined racism into Canadian law in 1876, and, through residential schools, the child welfare system, our legal system and our police, wecriminalized and tore apart indigenous peoples. The deaths of Chantel Moore and Rodney Levi and the assault on Chief Allan Adam are recent examples of systemic racism within the RCMP. Sadly, the RCMP leadershiphas failed to acknowledge this reality and its root causes. These same systems negatively impact black Canadians. Anti-black racism has resulted in more young black men being jailed, children being streamed orexcluded from schools and negative police interaction due to profiling. Black lives matter. No single Canadian is responsible for the prevalence of systemic racism; we all are. Collectively we build institutions thatdiscriminate based on race. It is now time to reimagine and rework our institutions, starting with our police, to ensure that all Canadians can achieve their truest potential.The Chair: Ms.Larouche, you have the floor.Ms.Andranne Larouche (Shefford, BQ): Thank you, Mr.Chair. June15 is World Elder Abuse Awareness Day. I want to remind members of the link between abuse and the problems of economic dependency among seniors.Improving their purchasing power means reducing the risk of them falling victim to abusive people. That's why the increase in the old age security benefit and the guaranteed income supplement must be extendedbeyond the pandemic. In three weeks, our seniors will receive their first cheque, when they should be receiving their second. A date must also be announced for the new horizons for seniors program, which helpsseveral groups develop projects to break the isolation of seniors. In closing, I would like to mention the organization Justice alternative et mdiation that during the pandemic, along with other organizations in Shefford,has set up the project Une histoire pour la tienne, which also serves to mark this day. It's a virtual meeting between young people and seniors, allowing them to exchange some inspiring life experiences. Since ageprejudice is very much present, I applaud this project, which aims to make us understand each other better and judge each other less.The Chair: We'll now continue with Mr. Sangha.Mr. Ramesh Sangha (BramptonCentre, Lib.): Mr. Chair, in the time of this terrible crisis affecting all Canadians, when we are all thinking about how best to deal with it, let's all think about the people around us. Let's show our representation not onlyto those in the sector of sanctioned workers, but also to all those Canadians who day by day stand up and make a difference. Every day I am proud of the reactions of Canadians to this crisis. I want to acknowledge andcelebrate all the contributions made by the people of Brampton Centre, all religious institutions, civil society and community organizations like Knights Table in my riding. We are all standing together to fight COVID-19.Let's continue working hard with that same spirit to get positive results out. Thank you very much.The Chair: I will proceed to Mr. Ruff.Mr. Alex Ruff (BruceGreyOwen Sound, CPC): Mr. Chair, whether graduating fromelementary school, high school, Georgian College or graduating from colleges or universities across the country, I am proud of the accomplishments of all the graduates across BruceGreyOwen Sound. I would also liketo congratulate and thank all the teachers and parents who have adapted to teaching online or from home and who have supported these graduates over the course of their academic careers. I'd like to extend specialcongratulations to Cameron Lovell, who just graduated from grade eight, as well as to Neebeesh and Neebin Elliott, originally from the Nawash unceded first nation on the Bruce Peninsula, who will be headed toMichigan State University, and to Jared Lumley from Owen Sound, who just graduated from my alma mater, the Royal Military College of Canada. The college motto of Truth, Duty, Valour is something all Canadiansshould aspire to live by. I wish all the best to these graduates on their next adventures. I and Canada cannot wait to see how their dreams and goals impact and change the world. I congratulate BruceGreyOwen Soundgraduates.The Chair: We'll now go to Mr.Cormier.Mr. Serge Cormier (AcadieBathurst, Lib.): Today I pay tribute to RichardLosier, an entrepreneur, visionary and builder who died on June9, 2020, surrounded by hisfamily. Mr.Losier is a giant in the Acadian Peninsula business community. In1968, he co-founded St.Isidore Asphalte, a company that now has more than 200employees. He also launched many other businesses overthe years. He was unifying and generous, a philanthropist who cared about young people and never missed an opportunity to improve their lives. I met Mr.Losier when I was 14years old, and I can say that he has beena positive influence in my life. Every time I met him, he gave me a lot of advice and encouragement, which I've never forgotten. Mr.Losier's legacy to his community is invaluable. His commitment remains an examplefor all of us to follow. Mr.Losier now joins his wife, Nolla. I offer my most sincere condolences to his children, Richard Jr., Ronald, Nathalie, Caroline and Stphane, and to his family and friends. Rest in peace, Mr.Losier.You will be greatly missed. Thank you for everything you've done for our region.The Chair: We will now go to Ms. Dabrusin.Ms. Julie Dabrusin (TorontoDanforth, Lib.): Hello from my community in east end Toronto.People talk about how a city the size of Toronto can be cold, but that's far from the truth in my community. I want to give a shout-out to our teachers, like Mr. Wong of Earl Grey Senior Public School, who deliveredhome-baked cookies and handwritten notes to all of his students, or Monsieur Steve, who's offering online French classes, or the teachers of Riverdale Collegiate, who paraded through our streets to celebrate ourgraduates. Our local Michael Garron Hospital put out a call for community members to sew masks and received over 60,000 masks, including those made by Lisa Tancre of Chartwell Avondale Retirement Residence.Michelle Beaton organized a front window scavenger hunt to entertain children and their families. Restaurants, even while facing adversity, have been generously donating food, like the members of the Leslieville BIA orMezes. There are so many more stories of generosity that I could share, but I'm out of time. I thank everyone who has stepped up. We all appreciate all of their hard work.The Chair: We will now go to Ms. Sahota.Ms.Jag Sahota (Calgary Skyview, CPC): Mr. Chair, on Saturday night, Calgarians, particularly those in the northeast, in my riding of Calgary Skyview, witnessed a devastating storm, the likes of which I have not seen in mylifetime. Homes, vehicles, community buildings and structures suffered significant damage due to large hail, floods and high winds. People acted quickly to seek shelter. I'm so grateful that there have been no reports ofpersonal injury or loss of life. I went around the community yesterday to survey the damage. It is extensive. My heart aches for those who have been impacted by the storm in an already incredibly difficult time, but weare resilient. We know that in the coming weeks there will be a lot of cleanup required, both to personal property and in the community. I know my constituents, and we will help one another get through this together. Iwill work hard to do everything I can to help rebuild this community.The Chair: Mr.Serr, you have the floor.Mr. Marc Serr (Nickel Belt, Lib.): Thank you, Mr.Chair. I'd like to express my sincere gratitude to the people ofWest Nippissing who organized Pride activities to celebrate the LGBTQ community in June. This week, we are also celebrating National Public Service Week. I thank the public servants for their dedication to the NickelBelt community and the Valley East and Rayside-Balfour areas.The Chair: Next is Mr. Saroya.Mr. Bob Saroya (MarkhamUnionville, CPC): Mr. Chair, when COVID-19 began spreading across Ontario, Markham, like manyother communities, was unprepared. Our front-line health care workers did not have enough personal protective equipment to do their jobs safely. When Markham residents heard about these shortages, my office wasflooded with calls from people who had PPE and wanted to donate. Since then my office has been able to deliver tens of thousands of PPE supplies to front-line health care workers and five masks to each family in need.This pandemic has shown that no matter what the challenge is, the Markham community will overcome it. Today, I would like to thank the front-line health care workers who are doing incredible work. I would also liketo thank all those who have helped in Markham's hour of need.The Chair: I understand we had a bit of a glitch there. I'm sorry. With the pause, we thought that was the end of it.  Mr.Serr, I would ask you to continue. Iunderstand you started to switch languages. Please continue. You have 30seconds.Mr. Marc Serr: Thank you. I'm switching to English now. Thank you to our nurses, doctors, pharmacists, cashiers, janitors. Thank youto various retail workers and first responders dealing with COVID-19. You keep our communities safe and healthy, and you feed us. Your dedication and sacrifice are greatly appreciated. As we start to see localbusinesses reopen, it is important for all of us to remember to follow best practices outlined by local public health. Our front-line workers deserve our respect. It is important for all of us to respect social distancing, toprotect all workers and their families. Together we can remain strong and united as we continue to face this challenge together.The Chair: Again, my apologies for skipping over there, but now we'll to to Ms.McLeod.Mrs. Cathy McLeod (KamloopsThompsonCariboo, CPC): Mr. Chair, in commemoration of Italian Heritage Month, I would like to pay tribute to the Colombo Lodge and Italian Cultural Centre in Kamloops, BritishColumbia. The Colombo Lodge was founded in 1914 and is an integral part of our community. Recently they began Colombo Cares take-home dinners with proceeds distributed to different non-profit organizations"}
{"doc_id":"doc_54","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Afternoon guys . It's gonna be {gap} .Marketing: Rock and roll .Project Manager: Oh . {vocalsound} {gap} 'Kay .Marketing: So do we need to re-train Mike on how to put his mic on ?Project Manager:We may do .Industrial Designer: Think sMarketing: Okay , can he get it all by himself this time ?Project Manager: I dunno , I'm feeling like a big boy .Industrial Designer: Mm . ProMarketing: {gap}Industrial Designer:Probably not , 'cause he's 'S been listening to {gap} too much .Marketing: So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: He's getting retarded . Yay .Marketing: I believe I can fly .User Interface: Alright well we got someexciting stuff for you guys .Industrial Designer: Or not .User Interface: Or not . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Just what I needed was something exciting . Remember , I'm an old man .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}Project Manager: 'Kay , ready to go ?User Interface: All ready .Project Manager: 'Kay so we've got our conceptual design meeting .Industrial Designer: Apparently I'm old as well .ProjectManager: Hopefully we've all got exciting ideas now .Marketing: Thirty's really young , eh ?User Interface: {vocalsound} We do .Project Manager: Uh k exciting ideas . 'Kay so here's our agenda our agenda .UmIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I'm gonna open . I'm gonna talk for a bit about what we're gonna do . I'm gonna take some notes . We're gonna all do a presentation , and then hopefully we'regonna make some decisions now . {vocalsound} Yep . {vocalsound} Well when I say hopefully , we have to . SoUser Interface: Alright .Project Manager: I'm gonna let you guys talk before we make decisions . And doesanyone really want to go first ?User Interface: I guess I'll go first .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: You p two ?User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: What's {disfmarker}User Interface: Component ,I think . Yeah .Project Manager: Components design .User Interface: Yep that's it .Industrial Designer: Presented by name . {vocalsound}User Interface: My name is {vocalsound} .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yourname is name ?Marketing: Jose he man is .User Interface: My name is name .Project Manager: Huh hi name .Industrial Designer: My name is Inigo Montoya .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Youkilled my father .User Interface: {vocalsound} Sorry I did this in a bit of a rush .Industrial Designer: Prepare to die . {vocalsound}Marketing: N name .Project Manager: Right . {vocalsound}User Interface: So so here'sa look inside your really old-looking remote control . Um you've got {vocalsound} a printed {vocalsound} a printed uh circuit board here , and you've got all these buttons which kinda press down little rubber{vocalsound} nubbies into these little holes that activate {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: We've all broke a remote control ri um s yeah . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah we've all broken aremote control .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I've {disfmarker}User Interface: So you've also got um {disfmarker} you've got your chip here , your batteries here , and some sortaelectronics . Um {disfmarker}Marketing: I just love you tech guys , huh .Industrial Designer: Yeah there's a thingy and a dingy and {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} You press this and it does thUserInterface: Well {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah y do jabber {vocalsound}User Interface: so you've got {disfmarker} here's here's a transistor , and this amplifies your signal ,IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}User Interface: um you've got the L_E_D_ here on the end of the uh uh on the end of the printed circuit board . Um you've got a couple diodes here for I don't know who and whatnot{vocalsound} .Project Manager: {vocalsound} I dunno who and whatnot .User Interface: So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} exactly .Industrial Designer: Nah .User Interface: So um we've got a {disfmarker} i in this in thisuh drawing he uh in this example here , this is a eighteen pin um uh chip {vocalsound} I dunno .Marketing: P Yeah .User Interface: Uh it's two double A_ batteries .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Thisis pretty standard remote . So here are options for our power sources . You can use a basic battery , which we've already discussed , um {vocalsound} th our tech department also said we have the option of doing somekind of hand dynamo where maybe you crank it or something like that .Project Manager: {vocalsound} 'Kay . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I wanna change that {vocalsound} .User Interface: I don'tknow if that's really {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I I gotta I gotta flashlight , and uh {disfmarker}User Interface: I don't know we got some qu crazy guys down there in that department so {vocalsound}{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: You shake it .Marketing: yeah but it's interesting 'cause you shake it like this {vocalsound} .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Like this {vocalsound} .User Interface: So that's the next bullet is the um the kinetic provision of energy ,Marketing: And that's on the camera {vocalsound} .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}User Interface: so it's like that flashlight where you have to shake it {vocalsound} .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: 'Kay .User Interface: Uh we've got solar cells , which I don't think is a verygood idea because um you could not use your remote at night {vocalsound} which doesn't make a lot of sense .Project Manager: Mm 'kay .User Interface: And finally we've got our cradle o our power cradle idea.Project Manager: Okay so we basically have battery versus cradle here ?User Interface: M battery versus cradle I think is {disfmarker} yeah .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: I like the kinetic .ProjectManager: So we have battery versus cradle {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing: I g I I figured you would . Yes . {vocalsound} Yeah .User Interface: It could be fun {vocalsound} .Project Manager: It's actually a novelthing because you could sell it a as a novelty , just to be actually serious for a minute here ,User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: you could {disfmarker}User Interface: Well it is it is more uh {disfmarker} I mean it ismore eco-friendly than the than the cradle 'cause you're still using power off the grid with the cradle . So umProject Manager: Mm . Hmm .User Interface: our case design . We have uh choices in materials and choicesin the general shapes that we can do . Our material choices are a plastic latex um ty or plastic , a rubber latex type thing , uh wood , or titanium . If we go with titanium we're gonna be uh limited in the amount ofshapes we can do because it's tough to shape the titanium , and uh {disfmarker} Yeah persProject Manager: Wood wood would ge would give us a little bit of a marketing niche , wouldn't it .User Interface: I think woodi {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} It it it {disfmarker}Project Manager: Nah .User Interface: I I can't see anybody wanting to use a wooden remote , it's just anti-technology really , you know .Marketing: Uh.Project Manager: Okay . Hmm .Marketing: Uh uh to me in a marketing sense it's not it's not relative . We can we can o we can uh accentuate whatever {disfmarker} whatever product you put in there we can find away to accentuate it .User Interface: Right .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: And what we may be able to do , and I think this might be the best option is to combine some {disfmarker} a couple of these . Um myrecommendation personally would be to do some kind of a plastic inner shell with a like a rubber outer shell , to make it um to mak uh like a thick plastic inner shell and a t um kind of a {disfmarker} to have that rubberouter shell to make it more durable , and also maybe i I think it feels a little better than the plastic .Project Manager: 'Kay . Do you get a good grip on the rubber ? Yeah okay . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah um{disfmarker}Marketing: And if you make it from that super rubber , when you drop it on the floor it can bounce right back up in your hand .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: You don't even need to lean down to get it.User Interface: The advantages of working with plastic and rubber is {disfmarker} w we we'll have a lot more um options just in terms of shapeIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}UserInterface: because you can extrude plastic in basically any shape you want . So um {disfmarker} and then we can cover you know the breakable bits with rubber yeah so um {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay .UserInterface: But basically these are {vocalsound} curved and double-curved I I believe that the tech department , in their um {vocalsound} in their {vocalsound} message to me , that they were referring to the numberof th curves in the bottom . I have no idea exactly what they're talking about ,Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: but that's what they told me , {vocalsound} uncurved , flat , curved , or double-curved .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}User Interface: I would guess this like this pen would be kinda like a double-curved , where it's curved on m m multiple axes , right ? I think curved means just curved in one axis anddouble-curved is curved in two axesProject Manager: Okay .User Interface: or surfaces . I have no idea .Project Manager: I think it might mean something like that sorta shape because a double curve rather than a{disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm yeah that's {disfmarker} yeah that's what I see .Project Manager: yeah that's what {gap} .User Interface: Oh okay oh like a wave , okay .Marketing: Yeah that's what I see also .UserInterface: Alright that makes sense okay . Um okay , with the interface we have the following options , we can u we can use push buttons , we can use a scroll wheel with an integrated push button , and L_C_D_ display,Marketing: Ooh .User Interface: or multiple scrolling wheels . Um so these are all options that the user interface guy can uh {disfmarker} has at his disposal to put together a user interface .Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: For electronics , we have these very technical um {vocalsound} descriptions here . A simple chip , which is the least expensive , but I have no numbers to give you ,Project Manager: {vocalsound}UserInterface: a regular chip , which is {vocalsound} like the medium porridge {disfmarker} the {vocalsound} medium expense uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} D do we have actually any concept of whatthe difference is between a simple chip and an advanced chip ?User Interface: Yes the difference is , with a simple chip {disfmarker} a simple chip will operate {disfmarker} oh why doesn't this scroll up ? Previousprevious , okay . A simple chip is required to operate push buttons .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Um {vocalsound} an advanced chip is required to to operate um the L_C_D_ display , and it didn't sayspecifically , but I I have a hunch that a regular chip is gonna be the scroll wheel and the multiple scroll wheels .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: So but yeah .Project Manager: Yeah that makes sense . Sopresentation from {disfmarker} I guess design would go best . Next .User Interface: That's the end of my presentation .Project Manager: Technical functions or interface concept ?User Interface: I think{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Oh interface concept .Project Manager: Yeah that's it .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Very long presentation . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yes , but it has your name on it .UserInterface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well that doesn't bo bode well for it for it tats as well . Um so , somehow that thing's too big , butum {disfmarker} okay um our uh manufacturing division wanted the speech recognition . They say they could put it to work but um we don't think so .User Interface: No . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: No . It it it{disfmarker} you'll be you know be affected by the by the other speech and {disfmarker}User Interface: If the T_V_ is working , yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: That's just {disfmarker} I mean it'll{disfmarker} if somebody says up in the middle of a television show , it's gonna change the channel .Industrial Designer: Yeah and and fighting for the remote would not be fun anymore ,User Interface: So{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: and I think that's one of the things we wanna keep .Project Manager: But what if you actually had to press a button to make it recognize ? So if you pressed it and went , up ?IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound} That kinda would r dUser Interface: Well then why don't you just press the up button ?Project Manager: Man yeah .Industrial Designer: yeah . That would kind of lose it .Project Manager: But ifit's just one thing with a button that you can just go {disfmarker} Up .User Interface: Even still there's gonna be interf th there's there still will be interference from the T_V_ .Marketing: That's right .Project Manager:{vocalsound} Yeah , okay .User Interface: It might not be it might not be completely confusing , but I think you'll still y it's still {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: I don't think it's practical at all . Ithink it's a bad idea frankly .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: Yeah so um taking that away , our uh {disfmarker} the the the rubber but rubber buttons are the more reliable {disfmarker}Project Manager:You guys know your stuff .Industrial Designer: it's the the ones that would al would allow us to to market our product as being you know less prone to damage and more resistant to things like spillage of liquids over itor you know mistreat misuses as it happens to remote controls . Um as for the point that we making about losing it . Well , we wanna small r remote control one side because uh we want it to be cool and uh designed ,but um apparently um market shows that bigger s bigger um remotes get less lost ,User Interface: That I would believe .Industrial Designer: about {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Mm .UserInterface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: But um yeah I think we we need to compromise between those two and somehow we'll do that . Somehow . Um so {vocalsound} the the {disfmarker} what I would proposeis something more or less in the uh direction of what is to yo the right of that slide uh but without {disfmarker} with a l a less complicated um design , so the numbers , the volume control , and channel control , andteletext access . Uh the volume and channel control can just become those the the four button array as in if it was a round dial .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: And um if you just think about it as the oneto the right but with the numbers and the four buttons plus maybe a centre one with teletext .Project Manager: So we're suggesting doing a sorta scroll wheel thing for the volume ?Industrial Designer: Ye no it'snotUser Interface: That's not a scroll wheel .Industrial Designer: i i it's just four buttons that are on a cross ,Project Manager: Nah . Oh okay okay . I see .Industrial Designer: so that you ba basically can control all ofthe important tasks from that {gap} alone .User Interface: Right .Project Manager: Uh , okay .User Interface: Instead of play , stop , rewind , and fast forward there , that's up , down , louder , and quieter .ProjectManager: Okay .Industrial Designer: Yeah um yeah so I think we w we go for something mid-sized , so something looks goodMarketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and uh is not too prone to get lost . That be it.Project Manager: 'Kay . So on to {disfmarker} Y functional requirements or trend watching ?Marketing: I dunno .User Interface: Trend watching has a later date there .Marketing: Trend watching I guess . Trendwatching I believe .Project Manager: {gap} forty six nineteen fifty seven . Yep .Marketing: See what it looks like . It's been so long .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {gap} .Marketing:Well {vocalsound} I don't know what to say . When I s when I see the {disfmarker} when I see the product I I I I don't wanna buy it . I see so many of 'em out there . There's nothing about that product that makes mewanna choose that product over other products that are out there .User Interface: Are you talking about the picture ? That's not our that's not our b design ,Marketing: Yeah yeah .User Interface: that's just a{disfmarker} that's just something he a a graphic he used to show you the layout of what the layout of the buttons might be like .Marketing: Okay . Okay . Okay 'cause 'cause right now I don't have too much to sayabout how to market this product because we don't have a product to market yet .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: And uh from from talking to Mike is that we have we have uh we can market a more expensiveproduct now . That's what I understand so ,Project Manager: Upper management said yes .Marketing: hello .Project Manager: Uh e excuse that , that's a bit of spam .Marketing: And and so {disfmarker} yeah I'm a I'ma little bit stuck right now in that what uh w what is it that I'm gonna market ? Uh without special or increased marketable features I don't believe the product has a consumer demand . Uh I like the idea of of the scrollmakin {vocalsound} there are so many people making these products at this price right now . What are we gonna do to make this one special and unique ?User Interface: What's special and unique about a scroll?Marketing: Uh {vocalsound} well I don't {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's cool .Marketing: yeah it's {disfmarker} I I just see it as different . I don't say it's specially mm {disfmarker} I don't say it's special . Uh I saythat it's different I {disfmarker} what I'm looking for as marketing is m give me something different . I give me a lower price , give me a higher price , give me some new technology , don't give me the same thing thateverybody else is putting out there on the shelf it's f at the same price . I need something to market about this thing . We're we're a new firm .Project Manager: I'd I'd say though that we {disfmarker} if we did makethe decision to go with the cradle though , the then we have that as well ,Marketing: What i {vocalsound} if when when we have {disfmarker}Project Manager: but wi with a similar {disfmarker}Marketing: yeah whenwe when we have something like the cradle or or something give that's {disfmarker} as as a marketing standard {disfmarker} I need something to market , to make this product unique .User Interface: Well right Ithink the two big th points that we have so far are the {disfmarker} having the cradle and also having uh the um the actual design of the uh case itself having like this like rubber shell maybe with a plastic interior,Marketing: Yep .User Interface: having it look really nice um and also be really durable .Marketing: Mm 'kay . Just remember when I made up this report I didn't have the information that we're discussing here .ProjectManager: Mm . Course .User Interface: Right yeah . Yeah .Marketing: And and so so uh yeah when we have a cradle , when we have some kind of design , so what I'm saying is , from my perspective , I don't have aproduct to market right now . Um uh my personal preference is that we make some adjustment in the cost , either lower or develop an integrated new technol technology . That's that is the next step , there'stechnology and then there is technology , which we're moving into the next phase .Project Manager: Yeah 'cause that's {gap} .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: And so uh we're gonna have some newtechnology to enhance the marketability . Yeah uh again I'm not sold on the product because we don't have a product in my opinion yet .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: So I need a product .Project Manager: Mm 'kay.User Interface: Well let's get a product then .Marketing: I need a product to market . And I just {disfmarker} whatever product you guys put together , we'll find a way to market it . Tha that I'm not concerned with.Project Manager: So now {disfmarker}Marketing: If you if you give me {disfmarker} if you give me a cut-out of what everybody else has then I need to I need to find a lower cost .Project Manager: So our big{vocalsound} questions here really are cradle or not cradle ? Do we go basic or do we go for features ? Uh d does anyone really wanna do anything with the scroll wheel or should we ditch that off-hand first ?UserInterface: Well my question is what would the scroll wheel do ? Function-wise , what does that do that {disfmarker}Project Manager: Oh but that was in your presentation {vocalsound} so wh what would you imagine itdoing ?Marketing: Yeah wh wh what's the {vocalsound} whUser Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah . Well it's it's just another way to do the exact same thing that the buttons do .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Mm"}
{"doc_id":"doc_55","qid":"","text":"Marketing: Just put it on the deskt {gap} desktop .Project Manager: No on the desktop you'll find you should find that there's a project documents link . A well actually just there .Marketing: Project documents ,ProjectManager: Yeah . That's it .Marketing: yeah .Project Manager: If you dump it in there .Marketing: What's your username ?Project Manager: Your username .Marketing: What's your username and password ? Mm-hmm .Sorry .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Okay . There we go .Project Manager: Excellent . Right . Hopefully that's us ready to uh to go . So . Functional design meeting . We'll have to flesh out some of the uh stuff .Um we'll start with the minutes of the last meeting . Not a lot thankfully to say . We introduced ourselves , discussed the possibility of a macro facility , interac interacting the T_V_ a bit more , um mentioning ofbar-code , joystick for user manipulation , um and ergonomics of the remote control as well . Um it's come to my attention the following . Teletext has become outdated due to the populat popularity of the internet .Remote control should only be used for the T_V_ . Um due for uh time to market and possibly also cost issues . Um also key is the corporate image should stay recognisable , um f uh your colour and slogan of course isdown at the bottom there . Um . Now . Just to say quickly uh I would have thought that only being used for a television the macro facility may now not be required .User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: Um or at l itsfunctionality would have been of limited use . So to the point in my opinion anyway that it might not be worth pursuing . Um if anybody disagrees we can uh definitely say so . Um and hopefully we'll just crack on andwe'll get everything going . Um I'd like to if possible hear from our Marketing Expert first , to help us gain an idea of where we're going to go .Marketing: 'Kay .Project Manager: So um I'll just load up your presentationfrom here if you want .Marketing: Sure . Um , sh would you like to {vocalsound} I'll just do it from here .Project Manager: Yep . Sorry . Uh . Is yours the {disfmarker}Marketing: Um , try second one maybe . Try it ,yeah maybe .Project Manager: Oh sorry . Okay , right .Marketing: Yeah . Okay . Oh , I thought I put in my last name , I guess not , but {gap} .Project Manager: Uh if you {disfmarker} that's all right . If you{disfmarker} do you want me to just cycle through it for you or ?Marketing: Okay . {vocalsound} Oh yeah , that'd be fine , that'd be great .Project Manager: Yeah ?Marketing: Okay . Functional requirement by meEbenezer . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Okay , so um we did some research , we asked one hundred people their opinions on remote controls . We asked some uh open ended questions , just , whatare your opinions on the remote control , got a lot of re responses , and we asked some very specific questions , and we got a lot of good feedback . Please bear in mind this is only a hundred people , so even when thegroups are divided into fifteen to twenty five , twenty five to thirty five , there's only maybe ten people {vocalsound} fifteen people in each group .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Okay . {vocalsound} So we got{disfmarker} some the bad stuff we got , remotes are often lost . I often lose my remote control , the back of the couch , some place , and even if it's not lost permanently , it takes me a few minutes to find it .{vocalsound} Most buttons are not used any more , like you said , teletext is outdated now . I remember trying to load a D_V_D_ player recently , and there were so many buttons , it took me I don't know maybe tenminutes to to go through each button , 'cause you have to press the shift button to access the yellow buttons , you know there's just a lot of stuff that no one really uses . And if they do , not very often . Takes too longto master the remote control . I've seen some remote controls that are big , they have a lot of buttons , you have to hold down more than one key at one time to do something , they're just not great to use . We justgot a lot of bad complaints about remote controls , people do not like remote controls . Some of the good stuff we got . Between the age of uh fifteen and twenty five , most people would be willing to pay extra for voicerecognition software . Now don't get excited yet , I've got more to say on that . Most people'd be willing to pay for that um most people want remote controls to be pretty , they want it to be fancy , th they they want itto be different , everybody has a white remote control with black buttons , and a red button and a green button , not everybody wants that . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Finally , my opinion .Project Manager: Yep.Marketing: The voice recognition thing is cool . And uh voice recognition , the software , open source software exist already . It's a bit sketchy at some times , uh , you're not gonna get good always accurate results ,but for a very fixed number of words , you know you have , how many different words can you have for a remote control , up , down , left , right , channel five , channel seven , you know , how many , you can't havethat many words . For a fixed vocabulary it works quite well . I'm pretty sure people would buy it . But after a while people may wanna return it , because {vocalsound} if you have to to say som I mean most people usea remote control for switching to channels , and they say they do that about ninety eight percent of the time . Using the remote control , ninety eight percent of the time for changing channels , and that's for flickeringthrough channels . So if you have to say up , up , up , up , if you have to do that all the time , then people might get a bit fed up with that and they may return it . {vocalsound} However , {vocalsound} oh , becausethe voice recognition software exists already , there's no need to spend money on research and development , but this does mean the need for microphones in the in the remote control , which is an unusual feature inmy opinion . But if we do have the voice recognition thing , there's a lot of stuff that you can uh get rid of . See , you could {disfmarker} there're two options . Either you have voice recognition by itself , which I think isa bit impractical for like night time if you wanna be watching television and you wanna be quiet , or I don't know you have a visitor coming round and the remote's only trained for you , it's a bit impractical to have justvoice recognition by itself . So you can have voice recognition and a regular remote . But imagine you got rid of the regular remote part , then you can design the remote to look any way you want it to look , becausethere are no restrictions on physical size , or shape , it it could be as fancy as you want it to be , you know , it could be like a lollipop or something like that , something weird like that . As long as the voice recognitionstuff works , that's that's fine .Project Manager: Okay , yep .Marketing: So we have the three birds , we have the design , that {vocalsound} we have the the fancy bit , right , the voice recognition's fancy , it's cool , it'sdifferent , it's radical , so , and then we have an extra bit I don't remember {vocalsound} so I'm pretty sure people will buy the remote , but is it practical to have a voice recognition system in a remote control , I thinkis a big question . Um , will people will people be willing to wait for the the period that it'll take to train the remote , 'cause I think it will the remote will uh get better over time with the same user user , but for the firstweek or for the first two weeks are you willing to wait , are you willing to have a bad remote control . {vocalsound} And uh what if you have visitors come round , they stay the night , they wanna use the T_V_ , theycan't use the remote because they speak differently to you . Um , how do you account for regional accents and stuff like that . Uh , will people return the remote control , {vocalsound} I think a lot of young people willbuy the remote control , if they have the money , you know , so ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm . If you could uhMarketing: do our audience have the money , but would they return it after a while because it's not as fastas pressing a button , it's not a practical . So . These are things I think we should consider .Project Manager: sorMarketing: I think it's cool ,Project Manager: if you could speed it up a bit , yeah . If you could uh speed itup a bit please , yeah .Marketing: I'm sorry ? Sure .Project Manager: Sorry .Marketing: I'm about to end , yeah .Project Manager: Cool .Marketing: I think it's cool but there are definitely some considerations .ProjectManager: Okay . Excellent .Marketing: So , yeah .Project Manager: Right . Um . Hear from the {vocalsound} User Interface Designer now I think might be an idea .User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: Um , you'vegot your presentation now ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} How did {disfmarker} where did {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah , it's in the it's in the folderProject Manager: is it on the {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: where did you get all your in information {gap} ?User Interface: yeah .Project Manager: is it ? Okay .Marketing: There was uh a website , uh ,Industrial Designer: Oh .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Technicalfunctions ?Marketing: right here .Industrial Designer: Ah , okay .User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: No . Yeah . Okay .User Interface: Okay , this is a {vocalsound} brief run through of the um of the technicalfunctions of the remote . As um is uh the the the presentation is uh already slightly obsolete because I {vocalsound} had in mind something that would uh be i be aimed at controlling multiple devices but uh there's stillstuff of relevance , soProject Manager: Okay .User Interface: press on . I've looked at {vocalsound} looked at a num {vocalsound} uh couple of other uh remote control models just for an idea of basic design principles. Um and wasn't really satisfied by what I saw I have to say so this is more sort of springboard for uh how these could be improved on . {vocalsound} Um um basically the job of the device is to send commands to anappliance , in this case the television set . Um to save you getting off your backside . Um and there's two main trends in th in the sort of design practice . On the one hand {disfmarker} and this uh this particularlyrelates to its sort of earliest models where with you know i so so many buttons on it so about the size of the television set . Um giving you every possible function that the that the device has , the remote controlcontrols . And most of these functions are not going to be used , it creates a rather user unfriendly interface . And on the other hand there's a user focused approach that pares things down to just what {vocalsound}what is most likely to get used . Um {vocalsound} With uh {disfmarker} a and a and of course there is a certain amount of sort of loss of function here obviously , but mostly that's relatively peripheral functions . Andso you go for something that's fairly intuitive to use , and um well f the for the most part for T_V_ remote it's uh tha that would be channel control and volume . Um and if you {vocalsound} if you if you are wanting toincorporate uh control of a D_V_ {vocalsound} D_V_D_ or uh {vocalsound} V_C_R_ presumably into that then there's a play , pause , stop , rewind , fast-forward , record , so forth . Um . My own view is that we shoulddefinitely be going for a user focused design . Um but uh the pro {vocalsound} I think the problem with a lot of the sort of user focused designs that are about is that they sort of make assumptions in advance aboutwhat uh what a given user's going to uh want mo want to do from {vocalsound} want it to do most . So , something that's uh {vocalsound} something that is more programmable , that uh perh perhaps has the fullrange of functions available to it but you can then specify yourself what you're most likely to want . Um so that those are then immediately {vocalsound} accessible through fairly minimal number of controls , um I likedEbenezer's idea of including a joystick in that and uh possibly a sort of fairly minimal number of sort of function buttons , and have a disp {vocalsound} you then have some sort of basic display on it so that if you're umsort of cha changing from different modes for the device it'll tell you just exactly what uh you know each direction of the uh of the um joystick's {vocalsound} going to do or wha or what each function button's going todo . Um , this is actually {gap} a again slightly taking inspiration off of uh games controllers , you know the Playstation control where you have four basic function buttonsMarketing: Mm .User Interface: that are justmarked with um distinctive uh geometrical shapes but the {vocalsound} and then dependent on what you're doing with it what game and so on um those uh those functions are then sort of further specified . And so it'staking taking the lead from that . Um .Project Manager: Okay . Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound} That's it .Project Manager: Right . Um , if we could hear from our Industrial engineer , or Designer .IndustrialDesigner: Yeah . Uh , I was still working on stuff , I hadn't got it finished . Um , {vocalsound} alright . Click to save in {disfmarker} where do I have to save it ?Project Manager: If you look on the desktop you'll findthat there's a link to the project folder , or project documents . If you save it in there we can open it up from here .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Um , what I've done with it , I'm sorry . Shit . Um {vocalsound}{disfmarker}Project Manager: Are you finding it okay or ?Industrial Designer: I'm just {gap} closing it now . {gap} where I've saved it .Marketing: Well like if you go to one , uh whichever one you were working{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {gap} that's it there ,Marketing: yeah ,Industrial Designer: yeah .Marketing: and you just click file save as .Industrial Designer: Oh right . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: Uh , right I'm responsible for working design , uh , this is basically the inside going on of the the uh remote control . So we have the energy source , we have the user interface , this this is what I'veseen . Uh the sender will push the button , the chip will respond , uh and then the dig digital signal is sent to the T_V_ . So uh uh , if you go to next slide , you'll see you'll see uh what do we need on the user interface .Do we need uh many buttons , or do we need l many light bulbs that could be easier to uh to realise which appliances are on or not . Um , {vocalsound} , or would that take too much power , would we need more umcomponents in there to supply the power ? Um , the joystick is another thing , if we were gonna add that , um , there'd be more components to deal with that .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Um{vocalsound} , so uh we need to {disfmarker} I dunno exactly what {disfmarker} That's the design of the the the layout of the uh electronic design , um obviously there'll be more details once we've decided what we'reputting on the user interface .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: So , that'll be decided , I guess . {vocalsound} Uh , and the next slide . Oh , yeah {disfmarker} Um , if you go to the next slide then .ProjectManager: Oh . Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I just used the {vocalsound} it was a mess , uh I was just putting adding it together at the end there . Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Ah , don'tworry about it at all mate . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Uh so you have the energy source obviously connected to the chip , and the user interface obviously contains everything . You have the switch turn it on ,infrared bulb , uh will contact the T_V_ and will have whatever device or D_V_D_ player , the bulb will turn on to say it's on . Uh , so do we need on the control uh different buttons to decide , or different light bulbs ,would it be easier ? Um , I dunno what we should decide on that .Project Manager: Okay . Well . Oh sorry , I'm I'm interrupting you . Are you {disfmarker} is it {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: No , it's finished , yeah.Project Manager: yeah ? Okay . Right . Um , {vocalsound} right we can probably skip that for now . So , we've had some stuff put forward , um along with the new user requirements , um we've had a lot of kind ofinput I'd say so far . Um I hear what the Marketing Expert's saying about {vocalsound} um voice activated control . However I've got a couple of worries about that . {vocalsound} The power required , um and theability to the cost , it seems like for uh an embedded system , this could cause us issues .Industrial Designer: Cost . Mm .Project Manager: Um for example you see that there's fairly robust services on uh computers viauh via voice , I_B_M_ do um drag and dictate , but these require a lot of memoryMarketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: and usually um state quite advanced processor requirements . Um voice activation could be aninteresting idea but I think that our Ind Industrial Designer would probably upon some research say that it's maybe not feasible .Marketing: 'Kay .Project Manager: Um that's just my view right now ,User Interface: Mm. {vocalsound}Project Manager: however the idea of a joystick and then maybe an L_C_D_ which has been kind of put forward so far , it's almost like having a small T_ not T_V_ to say , but if you can control almost allof the functionality from the display , I don't know how much power an L_C_D_ would take , but it might be quite low ?Marketing: Mm . I uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: L_C_D_ on the remote just telling youwhat's on , or {vocalsound} uh , interactive L_C_D_ or {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well literally um if you can imagine the display maybe slightly larger than um those on a {vocalsound} a mobile phone ,UserInterface: Mm .Project Manager: something where you can read an an um fair amount of information , traverse maybe quite a few menus , if we maybe used mobile phones as a good example , they usually incorporatethey have the keypad , and then evr all the other functionality is usually associated inside by traversing around .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: That could be one possibility . Um and then we could have likesay the common buttons as you say , volume control , changing channels {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm . {gap} I I was thinking that the remote {vocalsound} the um {vocalsound} sort of default functions for thejoystick would be up and down for uh volume , left and right for channels .Project Manager: We {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Do you think that people will get mixed up , like , they'll be looking at this screen andthat screen and then , you know , trying to get everything working , would it be a bit confusing ?User Interface: Um I think probably for the first couple of hours of using itIndustrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: umbut you know muscle memory's a wonderful thing , um . And I think {vocalsound} and I think that size of uh display was about what I had in mind .Marketing: Mm .User Interface: Um though I mean I w I would saythat uh we could probably probably be required to um mo most of the mobile phone displays you see these days are colour but we should probably try to stick to black and white .Project Manager: {vocalsound} I wouldagree with you .User Interface: Si si simply to keep m keep the unit cost down . Um I mean colour could be a sort of subsequent development but uh you know cost a bit of extra money f w w w w w once everyone's gotthe first , you know , oh colour's out , we'll have to replace it won't we .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}User Interface: It does nothing extra .Project Manager: That would be my feeling as well , I think wecould possibly create quite a useful user interface . Um now I mean I don't {disfmarker}Marketing: Sure but the idea of a remote with a menu or {disfmarker} and a joystick I think like I h if I was in the habit of buyingremote controls then I would want one ,Project Manager: sorry , go for it .Marketing: but I think we don't have a specific audience , you know , like what is our target audience , what niche are {disfmarker} niche arewe trying to market and corner . You know , you know what I'm saying , like , for whom is this intended ? Everybody ?Project Manager: {vocalsound} I think it could probably be aimed at most people who've used amobile . And that might be just another way of saying try to target most people .Marketing: Most people , yeah .User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: Um , if we are if we were to follow that avenue , we might be s youknow um we're kind of almost relying on their experience with a mobile phone I suppose . But that does cover a very large section of the people out there .Marketing: Mm-hmm . Sure . I think that's fair {vocalsound}yeah .User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: Um , I mean I imagine as well that the actual L_C_D_ and maybe to a certain extent the joystick as well would be for the additional functionality . Which maybe doesn't getused as often , maybe it makes it easy for them to figure out how to um change the channels as in the frequencies and such for reprogramming it .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Um and you can still have the"}
{"doc_id":"doc_56","qid":"","text":"Professor D: OK .PhD A: Mike . Mike - one ?PhD B: Ah .Professor D: We 're on ? Yes , please . I mean , we 're testing noise robustness but let 's not get silly . OK , so , uh , you 've got some , uh , Xerox things to passout ?PhD A: Yeah ,Professor D: That are {disfmarker}PhD A: um .Professor D: Yeah .PhD A: Yeah . Yeah , I 'm sorry for the table , but as it grows in size , uh , it .Professor D: Uh , so for th the last column we use ourimagination . OK .PhD B: Ah , yeah .Professor D: Ah .PhD A: Uh , yeah .PhD B: Uh , do you want @ @ .Professor D: This one 's nice , though . This has nice big font .PhD A: Yeah .Grad C: Let 's see . Yeah . Chop!Professor D: Yeah .PhD A: SoProfessor D: When you get older you have these different perspectives . I mean , lowering the word hour rate is fine , but having big font !PhD A: Next time we will put colors or something.Professor D: That 's what 's {disfmarker}PhD A: Uh .Professor D: Yeah . It 's mostly big font . OK .PhD A: OK , s so there is kind of summary of what has been done {disfmarker}Professor D: Uh {disfmarker} Go ahead.PhD A: It 's this . Summary of experiments since , well , since last weekProfessor D: Oh . OK .PhD A: and also since the {disfmarker} we 've started to run {disfmarker} work on this . Um . {pause} So since last weekwe 've started to fill the column with um {vocalsound} uh features w with nets trained on PLP with on - line normalization but with delta also , because the column was not completely {disfmarker}Professor D: Mm -hmm . Mm - hmm . PhD A: well , it 's still not completely filled ,Professor D: PhD A: but {pause} we have more results to compare with network using without PLP and {pause} finally , hhh , {comment} um {pause}ehhh {comment} PL - uh delta seems very important . Uh {pause} I don't know . If you take um , let 's say , anyway Aurora - two - B , so , the next {disfmarker} t the second , uh , part of the table ,Professor D: Mm -hmm .PhD A: uh {pause} when we use the large training set using French , Spanish , and English , you have one hundred and six without delta and eighty - nine with the delta .Professor D: a And again all of thesenumbers are with a hundred percent being , uh , the baseline performance ,PhD A: Yeah , on the baseline , yeah . So {disfmarker}Professor D: but with a mel cepstra system going straight into the HTK ?PhD A: Yeah .Yeah . So now we see that the gap between the different training set is much {pause} uh uh much smallerProfessor D: Yes .PhD A: um {disfmarker}Grad C: It 's out of the way .PhD A: But , actually , um , for Englishtraining on TIMIT is still better than the other languages . And  Mmm , {pause} Yeah . And f also for Italian , actually . If you take the second set of experiment for Italian , so , the mismatched condition ,Professor D:Mm - hmm .PhD A: um {pause} when we use the training on TIMIT so , it 's multi - English , we have a ninety - one number ,Professor D: Mm - hmm .PhD A: and training with other languages is a little bit worse.Professor D: Um {disfmarker} Oh , I see . Down near the bottom of this sheet .PhD A: So ,Professor D: Uh , {comment} {pause} yes .PhD A: yeah .Professor D: OK .PhD A: And , yeah , and here the gap is still moreimportant between using delta and not using delta . If y if I take the training s the large training set , it 's {disfmarker} we have one hundred and seventy - two ,Professor D: Yes .PhD A: and one hundred and four whenwe use delta .Professor D: Yeah .PhD A: Uh . {pause} Even if the contexts used is quite the same ,Professor D: Mm - hmm .PhD A: because without delta we use seventeenths {disfmarker} seventeen frames . Uh .Yeah , um , so the second point is that we have no single cross - language experiments , uh , that we did not have last week . Uh , so this is training the net on French only , or on English only , and testing on Italian.Professor D: Mm - hmm .PhD A: And training the net on French only and Spanish only and testing on , uh TI - digits .Professor D: Mm - hmm .PhD A: And , fff {comment} um , yeah . What we see is that these nets arenot as good , except for the multi - English , which is always one of the best . Yeah , then we started to work on a large dat database containing , uh , sentences from the French , from the Spanish , from the TIMIT ,from SPINE , uh from {comment} uh English digits , and from Italian digits . So this is the {disfmarker} another line {disfmarker} another set of lines in the table . Uh , @ @ with SPINEProfessor D: Ah , yes . Mm -hmm .PhD A: and {pause} uh , actually we did this before knowing the result of all the data , uh , so we have to to redo the uh {disfmarker} the experiment training the net with , uh PLP , but with delta . ButProfessorD: Mm - hmm .PhD A: um this {disfmarker} this net performed quite well . Well , it 's {disfmarker} it 's better than the net using French , Spanish , and English only . Uh . So , uh , yeah . We have also started featurecombination experiments . Uh many experiments using features and net outputs together . And this is {disfmarker} The results are on the other document . Uh , we can discuss this after , perhaps {disfmarker} well ,just , @ @ . Yeah , so basically there are four {disfmarker} four kind of systems . The first one , yeah , is combining , um , two feature streams , uh using {disfmarker} and each feature stream has its own MPL . So it 'sthe {disfmarker} kind of similar to the tandem that was proposed for the first . The multi - stream tandem for the first proposal . The second is using features and KLT transformed MLP outputs . And the third one is to uuse a single KLT trans transform features as well as MLP outputs . Um , yeah . Mmm . You know you can {disfmarker} you can comment these results ,PhD B: Yes , I can s I would like to say that , for example , um ,mmm , if we doesn't use the delta - delta , uh we have an improve when we use s some combination . But whenPhD A: Yeah , we ju just to be clear , the numbers here are uh recognition accuracy .PhD B: w Yeah , this{disfmarker} Yeah , this number recognition accPhD A: So it 's not the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Again we switch to another {disfmarker}PhD B: Yes , and the baseline {disfmarker} the baseline have {disfmarker} iis eighty - two .Professor D: Baseline is eighty - two .PhD B: YeahPhD A: So it 's experiment only on the Italian mismatched for the moment for this .Professor D: Uh , this is Italian mismatched .PhD A: Um .PhD B: Yeah, by the moment .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor D: OK .PhD B: And first in the experiment - one I {disfmarker} I do {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I use different MLP ,Professor D: Mm - hmm .PhD B: and is obviouslythat the multi - English MLP is the better . Um . for the ne {disfmarker} rest of experiment I use multi - English , only multi - English . And I try to combine different type of feature , but the result is that the MSG - threefeature doesn't work for the Italian database because never help to increase the accuracy .PhD A: Yeah , eh , actually , if w we look at the table , the huge table , um , we see that for TI - digits MSG perform as well asthe PLP ,Professor D: Mm - hmm .PhD A: but this is not the case for Italian what {disfmarker} where the error rate is c is almost uh twice the error rate of PLP .Professor D: Mm - hmm .PhD A: So , um {vocalsound} uh, well , I don't think this is a bug but this {disfmarker} this is something in {disfmarker} probably in the MSG um process that uh I don't know what exactly . Perhaps the fact that the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker}there 's no low - pass filter , well , or no pre - emp pre - emphasis filter and that there is some DC offset in the Italian , or , well , something simple like that . But {disfmarker} that we need to sort out if want to uh getimprovement by combining PLP and MSGProfessor D: Mm - hmm .PhD A: because for the moment MSG do doesn't bring much information .Professor D: Mm - hmm .PhD A: And as Carmen said , if we combine the two ,we have the result , basically , of PLP .Professor D: I Um , the uh , baseline system {disfmarker} when you said the baseline system was uh , uh eighty - two percent , that was trained on what and tested on what ?That was , uh Italian mismatched d uh , uh , digits , uh , is the testing ,PhD B: Yeah .Professor D: and the training is Italian digits ?PhD B: Yeah .Professor D: So the \" mismatch \" just refers to the noise and{disfmarker} and , uh microphone and so forth ,PhD A: Yeah .PhD B: Yeah .Professor D: right ? So , um did we have {disfmarker} So would that then correspond to the first line here of where the training is{disfmarker} is the uh Italian digits ?PhD B: The train the training of the HTK ?Professor D: The {disfmarker}PhD B: Yes . Ah yes !Professor D: Yes .PhD B: This h Yes . Th - Yes .Professor D: Yes . Training of the net,PhD B: Yeah .Professor D: yeah . So , um {disfmarker} So what that says is that in a matched condition , {vocalsound} we end up with a fair amount worse putting in the uh PLP . Now w would {disfmarker} do wehave a number , I suppose for the matched {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I don't mean matched , but uh use of Italian {disfmarker} training in Italian digits for PLP only ?PhD B: Uh {pause} yes ?PhD A: Uh {pause}yeah , so this is {disfmarker} basically this is in the table . Uh {pause} so the number is fifty - two ,PhD B: Another table .PhD A: uh {disfmarker}Professor D: Fifty - two percent .PhD A: Fift - So {disfmarker} No , it 's{disfmarker} it 's the {disfmarker}PhD B: No .Professor D: No , fifty - two percent of eighty - two ?PhD A: Of {disfmarker} of {disfmarker} of uh {pause} eighteen {disfmarker}PhD B: Eighty .PhD A: of eighteen .PhDB: Eighty .PhD A: So it 's {disfmarker} it 's error rate , basically .PhD B: It 's plus six .PhD A: It 's er error rate ratio . So {disfmarker} Professor D: Oh this is accuracy ! PhD A: Uh , so we have nine {disfmarker} nine{disfmarker} let 's say ninety percent .PhD B: Yeah .Professor D: Oy ! {comment} OK . Ninety .PhD A: Yeah . Um {comment} which is uh {comment} what we have also if use PLP and MSG together ,Professor D: Yeah.PhD A: eighty - nine point seven .Professor D: OK , so even just PLP , uh , it is not , in the matched condition {disfmarker} Um I wonder if it 's a difference between PLP and mel cepstra , or whether it 's that the nethalf , for some reason , is not helping .PhD A: Uh . P - PLP and Mel cepstra give the same {disfmarker} same results .Professor D: Same result pretty much ?PhD A: Well , we have these results . I don't know . It 's not{disfmarker} Do you have this result with PLP alone , {comment} j fee feeding HTK ?Professor D: So , sPhD A: That {disfmarker} That 's what you mean ?PhD B: Yeah ,PhD A: Just PLP at the input of HTK .PhD B: yeahyeah yeah yeah , at the first {disfmarker} and the {disfmarker} Yeah .PhD A: Yeah . So , PLP {disfmarker}Professor D: Eighty - eight point six .PhD A: Yeah .Professor D: Um , so adding MSGPhD A: Um{disfmarker}Professor D: um {disfmarker} Well , but that 's {disfmarker} yeah , that 's without the neural net ,PhD A: Yeah , that 's without the neural netProfessor D: right ?PhD A: and that 's the result basically thatOGI has also with the MFCC with on - line normalization .Professor D: But she had said eighty - two .PhD A: This is the {disfmarker} w well , but this is without on - line normalization .Professor D: Right ? Oh , this{disfmarker} the eighty - two .PhD A: Yeah .PhD B: PhD A: Eighty - two is the {disfmarker} it 's the Aurora baseline , so MFCC . Then we can use {disfmarker} well , OGI , they use MFCC {disfmarker} th the baselineMFCC plus on - line normalizationProfessor D: Oh , I 'm sorry , I k I keep getting confused because this is accuracy .PhD A: Yeah , sorry . Yeah .PhD B: Yeah .Professor D: OK . Alright .PhD A: Yeah .Professor D: Alright .So this is {disfmarker} I was thinking all this was worse . OK so this is all betterPhD B: Yes , better .Professor D: because eighty - nine is bigger than eighty - two .PhD A: Mm - hmm .PhD B: Yeah .Professor D: OK . I'm {disfmarker} I 'm all better now . OK , go ahead .PhD A: So what happ what happens is that when we apply on - line normalization we jump to almost ninety percent .Professor D: Yeah . Mm - hmm .PhD A: Uh ,when we apply a neural network , is the same . We j jump to ninety percent .PhD B: Nnn , we don't know exactly .Professor D: Yeah .PhD A: And {disfmarker} And um {disfmarker} whatever the normalization ,actually . If we use n neural network , even if the features are not correctly normalized , we jump to ninety percent . So {disfmarker}Professor D: So we go from eighty - si eighty - eight point six to {disfmarker} toninety , or something .PhD A: Well , ninety {disfmarker} No , I {disfmarker} I mean ninety It 's around eighty - nine , ninety , eighty - eight .Professor D: Eighty - nine .PhD A: Well , there are minor {disfmarker} minordifferences .PhD B: Yeah .Professor D: And then adding the MSG does nothing , basically .PhD A: No .Professor D: Yeah . OK .PhD A: Uh For Italian , yeah .Professor D: For this case , right ?PhD A: Um .Professor D:Alright . So , um {disfmarker} So actually , the answer for experiments with one is that adding MSG , if you {disfmarker} uh does not help in that case .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor D: Um {disfmarker}PhD A:  But wYeah .Professor D: The other ones , we 'd have to look at it , but {disfmarker} And the multi - English , does uh {disfmarker} So if we think of this in error rates , we start off with , uh eighteen percent error rate ,roughly .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor D: Um {pause} and {pause} we uh almost , uh cut that in half by um putting in the on - line normalization and the neural net .PhD A: YeahProfessor D: And the MSG doesn'thowever particularly affect things .PhD A: No .Professor D: And we cut off , I guess about twenty - five percent of the error . Uh {pause} no , not quite that , is it . Uh , two point six out of eighteen . About , um {pause}sixteen percent or something of the error , um , if we use multi - English instead of the matching condition .PhD A: Mm - hmm . Yeah .Professor D: Not matching condition , but uh , the uh , Italian training .PhD A: Mm -hmm .PhD B: Yeah .Professor D: OK .PhD A: Mmm .PhD B: We select these {disfmarker} these {disfmarker} these tasks because it 's the more difficult .Professor D: Yes , good . OK ? So then you 're assuming multi -English is closer to the kind of thing that you could use since you 're not gonna have matching , uh , data for the {disfmarker} uh for the new {disfmarker} for the other languages and so forth . Um , one qu thing isthat , uh {disfmarker} I think I asked you this before , but I wanna double check . When you say \" ME \" in these other tests , that 's the multi - English ,PhD A: That 's {disfmarker} it 's a part {disfmarker} it 's{disfmarker}Professor D: but it is not all of the multi - English , right ? It is some piece of {disfmarker} part of it .PhD A: Or , one million frames .Professor D: And the multi - English is how much ?PhD B: You have herethe information .PhD A: It 's one million and a half . Yeah .Professor D: Oh , so you used almost all You used two thirds of it ,PhD A: Yeah .Professor D: you think . So , it it 's still {disfmarker} it hurts you {disfmarker}seems to hurt you a fair amount to add in this French and Spanish .PhD A: Mmm .PhD B: Yeah .Professor D: I wonder why Yeah . Uh .Grad C: Well Stephane was saying that they weren't hand - labeled ,PhD A: Yeah , it's {disfmarker}PhD B: Yeah .PhD A: Yeah .Grad C: the French and the Spanish .PhD B: The Spanish . Maybe for that .Professor D: Hmm .PhD A: Mmm .Professor D: It 's still {disfmarker} OK . Alright , go ahead . Andthen {disfmarker} then {disfmarker}PhD B: Um . Mmm , with the experiment type - two , I {disfmarker} first I tried to to combine , nnn , some feature from the MLP and other feature {disfmarker} another feature.Professor D: Mm - hmm .PhD B: And we s we can {disfmarker} first the feature are without delta and delta - delta , and we can see that in the situation , uh , the MSG - three , the same help nothing .Professor D: Mm- hmm .PhD B: And then I do the same but with the delta and delta - delta {disfmarker} PLP delta and delta - delta . And they all p but they all put off the MLP is it without delta and delta - delta . And we have a l littlebit less result than the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the baseline PLP with delta and delta - delta .Professor D: Mm - hmm .PhD B: Maybe if {disfmarker} when we have the new {disfmarker} the new {pause} neuralnetwork trained with PLP delta and delta - delta , maybe the final result must be better . I don't know .PhD A: Actually , just to be some more {disfmarker}PhD B: Uh {disfmarker}PhD A: Do This number , this eighty -seven point one number , has to be compared with theProfessor D: Yes , yeah , I mean it can't be compared with the otherPhD A: Which number ?Professor D: cuz this is , uh {disfmarker} with multi - English , uh ,training .PhD B: Mm - hmm .Professor D: So you have to compare it with the one over that you 've got in a box , which is that , uh the eighty - four point six .PhD B: Mm - hmm .Professor D: Right ?PhD A: Uh.Professor D: So {disfmarker}PhD A: Yeah , but I mean in this case for the eighty - seven point one we used MLP outputs for the PLP netProfessor D: Yeah .PhD A: and straight features with delta - delta . And straightfeatures with delta - delta gives you what 's on the first sheet .PhD B: Mm - hmm .Professor D: Yeah . Not t notPhD A: It 's eight eighty - eight point six .Professor D: tr No . No . No .PhD B: Yes .Professor D: Not trainedwith multi - English .PhD A: Uh , yeah , but th this is the second configuration .PhD B: No , but they {disfmarker} they feature @ @ without {disfmarker}PhD A: So we use feature out uh , net outputs together withfeatures . So yeah , this is not {disfmarker} perhaps not clear here but in this table , the first column is for MLP and the second for the features .Professor D: Eh . {comment} Oh , I see . Ah . So you 're saying w soasking the question , \" What {disfmarker} what has adding the MLP done to improve over the ,PhD A: So , just {disfmarker} Yeah so , actually it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it decreased the {disfmarker} the accuracy.Professor D: uh {disfmarker}PhD B: Yeah .Professor D: Yes .PhD A: Because we have eighty - eight point six .Professor D: Uh - huh .PhD A: And even the MLP alone {disfmarker} What gives the MLP alone ? Multi -English PLP . Oh no , it gives eighty - three point six . So we have our eighty - three point six and now eighty - eighty point six ,PhD B: But {disfmarker}PhD A: that gives eighty - seven point one .Professor D: Mm -hmm . Eighty - s I thought it was eighty Oh , OK , eighty - three point six and eighty {disfmarker} eighty - eight point six .PhD A: Eighty - three point six . Eighty {disfmarker}Professor D: OK .PhD A: Is th is that right? Yeah ?PhD B: Yeah . But {disfmarker} I don't know {disfmarker} but maybe if we have the neural network trained with the PLP {pause} delta and delta - delta , maybe tha this can help .PhD A: Perhaps , yeah.Professor D: Well , that 's {disfmarker} that 's one thing , but see the other thing is that , um , I mean it 's good to take the difficult case , but let 's {disfmarker} let 's consider what that means . What {disfmarker}what we 're saying is that one o one of the things that {disfmarker} I mean my interpretation of your {disfmarker} your s original suggestion is something like this , as motivation . When we train on data that is in onesense or another , similar to the testing data , then we get a win by having discriminant training .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor D: When we train on something that 's quite different , we have a potential to have someproblems .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor D: And , um , if we get something that helps us when it 's somewhat similar , and doesn't hurt us too much when it {disfmarker} when it 's quite different , that 's maybe not sobad .PhD A: Yeah . Mmm .Professor D: So the question is , if you took the same combination , and you tried it out on , uh {disfmarker} on say digits ,PhD A: On TI - digits ? OK .Professor D: you know , d Was thatexperiment done ?PhD A: No , not yet .Professor D: Yeah , OK . Uh , then does that , eh {disfmarker} you know maybe with similar noise conditions and so forth , {comment} does it {disfmarker} does it then lookmuch better ?PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor D: And so what is the range over these different kinds of uh {disfmarker} of tests ? So , an anyway . OK , go ahead .PhD A: Yeah .PhD B: And , with this type of configurationwhich I do on experiment using the new neural net with name broad klatt s twenty - seven , uh , d I have found more or less the same result .Professor D: Mm - hmm .PhD A: So , it 's slightly better ,PhD B: Little bitbetter ?PhD A: yeah .Professor D: Slightly better .PhD A: Yeah .PhD B: Slightly bet better . Yes , is better .Professor D: And {disfmarker} and you know again maybe if you use the , uh , delta {pause} there , uh , youwould bring it up to where it was , uh you know at least about the same for a difficult case .PhD B: Yeah , maybe . Maybe . Maybe .PhD A: Yeah .PhD B: Oh , yeah .PhD A: Yeah . Well , so perhaps let 's {disfmarker} let"}
{"doc_id":"doc_57","qid":"","text":"Professor B: I think for two years we were two months , uh , away from being done .PhD A: And what was that , Morgan ? What project ?Professor B: Uh , the , uh , TORRENT chip .PhD A: Oh .Professor B: Yeah . Wewere two {disfmarker} we were {disfmarker}PhD C: Yeah .Professor B: Uh , uh , we went through it {disfmarker} Jim and I went through old emails at one point and {disfmarker} and for two years there was this thingsaying , yeah , we 're {disfmarker} we 're two months away from being done . It was very {disfmarker} very believable schedules , too . I mean , we went through and {disfmarker} with the schedules {disfmarker}and we {disfmarker}PhD A: It was true for two years .Professor B: Yeah . Oh , yeah . It was very true .PhD A: So , should we just do the same kind of deal where we {pause} go around and do , uh , status report{pause} kind of things ? OK . And I guess when Sunil gets here he can do his last or something . So .Professor B: Yeah . So we {pause} probably should wait for him to come before we do his .PhD C: Mm - hmm .PhDA: OK . That 's a good idea .Professor B: Yeah .Grad F: OK .Professor B: Yeah .PhD A: Any objection ? Do y OK , MProfessor B: All in favorPhD A: Do you want to start , Morgan ? Do you have anything , or {disfmarker}?Professor B: Uh , I don't do anything . I {disfmarker} No , I mean , I {disfmarker} I 'm involved in discussions with {disfmarker} with people about what they 're doing , but I think they 're {disfmarker} since they 'rehere , they can talk about it themselves .Grad F: OK . So should I go so that , uh ,PhD A: Yeah . Why don't you go ahead , Barry ?Grad F: you 're gonna talk about Aurora stuff , per se ?PhD A: OK .Grad F: OK . Um .Well , this past week I 've just been , uh , getting down and dirty into writing my {disfmarker} my proposal . So , um {disfmarker} Mmm . I just finished a section on , uh {disfmarker} on talking about theseintermediate categories that I want to classify , um , as a {disfmarker} as a middle step . And , um , I hope to {disfmarker} hope to get this , um {disfmarker} a full rough draft done by , uh , Monday so I can give it toMorgan .PhD A: When is your , uh , meeting ?Grad F: Um , my meetingPhD A: Yeah .Grad F: with , uh {disfmarker} ? Oh , oh , you mean the {disfmarker} the quals .PhD A: The quals . Yeah .Grad F: Uh , the quals arehappening in July twenty - fifth .PhD A: Oh . Soon .Grad F: Yeah .PhD A: Uh - huh .Grad F: D - Day .PhD A: Yeah .Grad F: Uh - huh .PhD A: So , is the idea you 're going to do this paper and then you pass it out toeverybody ahead of time and {disfmarker} ?Grad F: Right , right . So , y you write up a proposal , and give it to people ahead of time , and you have a short presentation . And , um , and then , um {disfmarker} theneverybody asks you questions .PhD A: Hmm .Grad F: Yeah .PhD A: I remember now .Grad F: Yep . So , um .PhD A: Have you d ? I was just gonna ask , do you want to say any {disfmarker} a little bit about it ,Grad F:Y sPhD A: or {disfmarker} ? Mmm .Grad F: Oh . Uh , a little bit about {disfmarker} ?PhD A: Wh - what you 're {disfmarker} what you 're gonna {disfmarker} You said {disfmarker} you were talking about the , uh ,particular features that you were looking at ,Grad F: Oh , the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker}PhD A: or {disfmarker}Grad F: Right . Well , I was , um , I think one of the perplexing problems is , um , for a while I wasthinking that I had to come up with a complete set of intermediate features {disfmarker} in intermediate categories to {disfmarker} to classify right away . But what I 'm thinking now is , I would start with{disfmarker} with a reasonable set . Something {disfmarker} something like , um , um {disfmarker} like , uh , re regular phonetic features , just to {disfmarker} just to start off that way . And do some phonerecognition . Um , build a system that , uh , classifies these , um {disfmarker} these feat uh , these intermediate categories using , uh , multi - band techniques . Combine them and do phon phoneme recognition . Lookat {disfmarker} then I would look at the errors produced in the phoneme recognition and say , OK , well , I could probably reduce the errors if I included this extra feature or this extra intermediate category . Thatwould {disfmarker} that would reduce certain confusions over other confusions . And then {disfmarker} and then {vocalsound} reiterate . Um , build the intermediate classifiers . Uh , do phoneme recognition . Look atthe errors . And then postulate new {disfmarker} or remove , um , intermediate categories . And then do it again .PhD A: So you 're gonna use TIMIT ?Grad F: Um , for that {disfmarker} for that part of the{disfmarker} the process , yeah , I would use TIMIT .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Grad F: And , um , then {disfmarker} after {disfmarker} after , uh , um , doing TIMIT . Right ?PhD A: Mm - hmm .Grad F: Um , that 's{disfmarker} {vocalsound} that 's , um {disfmarker} that 's just the ph the phone recognition task .PhD A: Yeah .Grad F: Uh , I wanted to take a look at , um , things that I could model within word . So , I would mov Iwould then shift the focus to , um , something like Schw - Switchboard , uh , where I 'd {disfmarker} I would be able to , um {disfmarker} to model , um , intermediate categories that span across phonemes ,PhD A:Mm - hmm .Grad F: not just within the phonemes , themselves , um , and then do the same process there , um , on {disfmarker} on a large vocabulary task like Switchboard . Uh , and for that {disfmarker} for thatpart I would {disfmarker} I 'd use the SRI recognizer since it 's already set up for {disfmarker} for Switchboard . And I 'd run some {disfmarker} some sort of tandem - style processing with , uh , my intermediateclassifiers .PhD A: Oh . So that 's why you were interested in getting your own features into the SRI files .Grad F: Yeah . That 's why I {disfmarker} I was asking about that .PhD A: Yeah . Yeah .Grad F: Yeah . Um , andI guess that 's {disfmarker} that 's it . Any {disfmarker} any questions ?PhD A: Sounds good . So you just have a few more weeks , huh ?Grad F: Um , yeah . A few more .PhD A: It 's about a month from now ?Grad F:It 's a {disfmarker} it 's a month and {disfmarker} and a week .PhD A: Yeah .Grad F: Yeah .PhD A: So , uh , you want to go next , Dave ? And we 'll do {disfmarker}Grad E: Oh . OK , sure . So , um , last week I finallygot results from the SRI system about this mean subtraction approach . And , um , we {disfmarker} we got an improvement , uh , in word error rate , training on the TI - digits data set and testing on Meeting Recorderdigits of , um , {vocalsound} six percent to four point five percent , um , on the n on the far - mike data using PZM F , but , um , the near - mike performance worsened , um , from one point two percent to two pointfour percent . And , um , wh why would that be , um , {vocalsound} considering that we actually got an improvement in near - mike performance using HTK ? And so , uh , with some input from , uh , Andreas , I have atheory in two parts . Um , first of all HTK {disfmarker} sorry , SR - the SRI system is doing channel adaptation , and so HTK wasn't . Um , so this , um {disfmarker} This mean subtraction approach will do a kind ofchannel {pause} normalization and so that might have given the HTK use of it a boost that wouldn't have been applied in the SRI case . And also , um , the {disfmarker} Andreas pointed out the SRI system is usingmore parameters . It 's got finer - grained acoustic models . So those finer - grained acoustic models could be more sensitive to the artifacts {pause} in the re - synthesized audio . Um . And me and Barry were listeningto the re - synthesized audio and sometimes it seems like you get of a bit of an echo of speech in the background . And so that seems like it could be difficult for training , cuz you could have {pause} different phones{pause} lined up with a different foreground phone , {vocalsound} um , {vocalsound} depending on {pause} the timing of the echo . So , um , I 'm gonna try training on a larger data set , and then , eh , the systemwill have seen more examples o of these artifacts and hopefully will be more robust to them . So I 'm planning to use the Macrophone set of , um , read speech , and , um {disfmarker} Hmm .Professor B: I had anotherthought just now , which is , uh , remember we were talking before about {disfmarker} we were talking in our meeting about , uh , this stuff that {disfmarker} some of the other stuff that Avendano did , where theywere , um , getting rid of low - energy {pause} sections ? Um , uh , if you {disfmarker} if you did a high - pass filtering , as Hirsch did in {pause} late eighties to reduce some of the effects of reverberation , uh , uh ,Avendano and Hermansky were arguing that , uh , perhaps one of the reasons for that working was ma may not have even been the filtering so much but the fact that when you filter a {disfmarker} an all - positivepower spectrum you get some negative values , and you gotta figure out what to do with them if you 're gonna continue treating this as a power spectrum . So , what {disfmarker} what Hirsch did was , uh , set them tozero {disfmarker} set the negative values to zero . So if you imagine a {disfmarker} a waveform that 's all positive , which is the time trajectory of energy , um , and , uh , shifting it downwards , and then getting rid ofthe negative parts , that 's essentially throwing away the low - energy things . And it 's the low - energy parts of the speech where the reverberation is most audible . You know , you have the reverberation from higher- energy things showing up in {disfmarker} So in this case you have some artificially imposed {pause} reverberation - like thing . I mean , you 're getting rid of some of the other effects of reverberation , but becauseyou have these non - causal windows , you 're getting these funny things coming in , uh , at n And , um , what if you did {disfmarker} ? I mean , there 's nothing to say that the {disfmarker} the processing for this re -synthesis has to be restricted to trying to get it back to the original , according to some equation . I mean , you also could , uh , just try to make it nicer .Grad E: Uh - huh .Professor B: And one of the things you coulddo is , you could do some sort of VAD - like thingGrad E: Mm - hmm .Professor B: and you actually could take very low - energy sections and set them to some {disfmarker} some , uh , very low or {disfmarker} or nearzero {pause} value . I mean , uh , I 'm just saying if in fact it turns out that {disfmarker} that these echoes that you 're hearing are , uh {disfmarker}Grad E: Uh - huh .Professor B: or pre - echoes , whichever they are{disfmarker} are {disfmarker} are , uh , part of what 's causing the problem , you actually could get rid of them .Grad E: Uh - huh .Professor B: Be pretty simple . I mean , you do it in a pretty conservative wayGrad E:OK .Professor B: so that if you made a mistake you were more likely to {pause} keep in an echo than to throw out speech .Grad E: Hmm .PhD G: Um , what is the reverberation time {pause} like {pause} there ?GradE: In thi in this room ? Uh {disfmarker}PhD G: On , uh , the {disfmarker} the one what {disfmarker} the s in the speech that you are {disfmarker} you are using like ?Grad E: Y Yeah . I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I{disfmarker} I don't know .Professor B: So , it 's this room .PhD G: It 's , uh {disfmarker}Professor B: It 's {disfmarker} it 's this room .PhD G: Oh , this room ?Professor B: So {disfmarker}PhD G: OK .Professor B: so it's {disfmarker} these are just microphone {disfmarker} this micro close microphone and a distant microphone , he 's doing these different tests on .Grad F: Oh .Professor B: Uh , we should do a measurement in here . Ig think we never have . I think it 's {disfmarker} I would guess , uh , point seven , point eight seconds f uh , R TGrad F: Hmm !Professor B: something like that ? But it 's {disfmarker} you know , it 's this room .PhD G:Mm - hmm .Professor B: So .PhD G: OK . Mm - hmm .Professor B: Uh . But the other thing is , he 's putting in {disfmarker} w I was using the word \" reverberation \" in two ways . He 's also putting in , uh , a{disfmarker} he 's taking out some reverberation , but he 's putting in something , because he has {pause} averages over multiple windows stretching out to twelve seconds , which are then being subtracted from thespeech . And since , you know , what you subtract , sometimes you 'll be {disfmarker} you 'll be subtracting from some larger number and sometimes you won't . And {disfmarker}PhD G: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm.Professor B: So you can end up with some components in it that are affected by things that are seconds away . Uh , and if it 's a low {pause} energy compo portion , you might actually hear some {pause} funny things.PhD G: Yeah .Grad E: O o one thing , um , I noticed is that , um , the mean subtraction seems to make the PZM signals louder after they 've been re - synthesized . So I was wondering , is it possible that one reason ithelped with the Aurora baseline system is {pause} just as a kind of gain control ? Cuz some of the PZM signals sound pretty quiet if you don't amplify them .PhD C: Mm - hmm . I don't see why {disfmarker} why yoursignal is louder after processing , because yoGrad E: Yeah . I don't know why - y , uh , either .PhD C: Yeah .Professor B: I don't think just multiplying the signal by two would have any effect .PhD C: Mm - hmm .Grad E:Oh , OK .Professor B: Yeah . I mean , I think if you really have louder signals , what you mean is that you have {pause} better signal - to - noise ratio .PhD C: Well , well {disfmarker}Professor B: So if what you 'redoing is improving the signal - to - noise ratio , then it would be better .PhD C: Mm - hmm .Professor B: But just it being bigger if {disfmarker} with the same signal - to - noise ratio {disfmarker}Grad E: It w i i itwouldn't affect things .Professor B: No .PhD C: Yeah .Grad E: OK .PhD C: Well , the system is {disfmarker} use {pause} the absolute energy , so it 's a little bit dependent on {disfmarker} on the {pause} signal level .But , not so much , I guess .Professor B: Well , yeah . But it 's trained and tested on the same thing .PhD C: Mmm .Professor B: So if the {disfmarker} if the {disfmarker} if you change {vocalsound} in both trainingand test , the absolute level by a factor of two , it will n have no effect .PhD C: Mm - hmm . Yeah .PhD A: Did you add {pause} this data to the training set , for the Aurora ? Or you just tested on this ?Grad E: Uh{disfmarker} Um . Did I w what ?PhD A: Well , Morgan was just saying that , uh , as long as you do it in both training and testing , it shouldn't have any effect .Grad E: Sorry ? Yeah .PhD A: But I {disfmarker} I was{pause} sort of under the impression that you just tested with this data .Grad E: I {disfmarker} I bPhD A: You didn't {pause} train it also .Grad E: I {disfmarker} Right . I trained on clean TI - digits . I {disfmarker} Idid the mean subtraction on clean TI - digits . But I didn't {disfmarker} I 'm not sure if it made the clean ti TI - digits any louder .Professor B: Oh , I see .Grad E: I only remember noticing it made the , um , PZM signallouder .Professor B: OK . Well , I don't understand then . Yeah .Grad E: Huh . I don't know . If it 's {disfmarker} if it 's {disfmarker} like , if it 's trying to find a {disfmarker} a reverberation filter , it could be that thisreverberation filter is making things quieter . And then if you take it out {disfmarker} that taking it out makes things louder . I mean .Professor B: Uh , no . I mean , {vocalsound} uh , there 's {disfmarker} there 'snothing inherent about removing {disfmarker} if you 're really removing ,Grad E: Nuh - huh .Professor B: uh , r uh , then I don't {pause} see how that would make it louder .Grad E: The mean . OK . Yeah , I see.Professor B: So it might be just some {disfmarker}Grad E: Yeah . OK . So I should maybe listen to that stuff again .Professor B: Yeah . It might just be some artifact of the processing that {disfmarker} that , uh , if you're {disfmarker} Uh , yeah . I don't know .Grad E: Oh . OK .PhD A: I wonder if there could be something like , uh {disfmarker} for s for the PZM data ,PhD C: EhPhD A: uh , you know , if occasionally , uh , somebodyhits the table or something , you could get a spike . Uh . I 'm just wondering if there 's something about the , um {disfmarker} you know , doing the mean normalization where , uh , it {disfmarker} it could cause{pause} you to have better signal - to - noise ratio . Um .Professor B: Well , you know , there is this . Wait a minute . It {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} i maybe {disfmarker} i If , um {disfmarker} Subtracting the{disfmarker} the mean log spectrum is {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} is like dividing by the spectrum . So , depending what you divide by , if your {disfmarker} if s your estimate is off and sometimes you 're{disfmarker} you 're {disfmarker} you 're getting a small number , you could make it bigger .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Grad E: Mm - hmm .Professor B: So , it 's {disfmarker} it 's just a {disfmarker} a question of{disfmarker} there 's {disfmarker} It {disfmarker} it could be that there 's some normalization that 's missing , or something to make it {disfmarker}Grad E: Mm - hmm .Professor B: Uh , y you 'd think it shouldn't belarger , but maybe in practice it is . That 's something to think about .Grad E: Hmm .Professor B: I don't know .PhD C: I had a question about the system {disfmarker} the SRI system . So , {vocalsound} you trained iton TI - digits ? But except this , it 's exactly the same system as the one that was tested before and that was trained on {pause} Macrophone . Right ? So on TI - digits it gives you one point two percent error rate andon Macrophone it 's still O point eight . Uh , but is it {pause} exactly the same system ?Grad E: Uh . I think so .PhD C: Hmm .Grad E: If you 're talking about the Macrophone results that Andreas had about , um , aweek and a half ago , I think it 's the same system .PhD C: Mm - hmm . So you use VTL - uh , vocal tract length normalization and , um , like MLLR transformations also ,Grad E: Mm - hmm .PhD C: and{disfmarker}Professor B: I 'm sorry , was his point eight percent , er , a {disfmarker} a result on testing on Macrophone or {disfmarker} or training ?PhD C: all that stuff .Grad E: That 's {disfmarker}PhD C: It was{pause} training on Macrophone and testing {disfmarker} yeah , on {disfmarker} on meeting digits .Professor B: Oh . So that was done already . So we were {disfmarker} Uh , and it 's point eight ? OK .PhD C: Mm -hmm .Professor B: OK .PhD C: Yeah . I {disfmarker} I 've just been text {comment} testing the new {pause} Aurora front - end with {disfmarker} well , Aurora system actually {disfmarker} so front - end and HTK ,um , acoustic models on the meeting digits and it 's a little bit better than the previous system . We have {disfmarker} I have two point seven percent error rate . And before with the system that was proposed , it 'swhat ? It was three point nine . So .Professor B: Oh , that 's a lot better .PhD C: We are getting better .Professor B: So , what {disfmarker} w ?PhD C: And {disfmarker}PhD G: With the {disfmarker} with the HTK back- end ? What we have for Aurora ?PhD C: Yeah . Two point seven .PhD G: I know in the meeting , like {disfmarker}PhD C: On the meeting we have two point seven .PhD G: Right . Oh .Grad F: That 's with the new IIRfilters ?PhD C: Uh . Yeah , yeah . So , yeah ,Grad F: OK .PhD C: we have {pause} the new LDA filters , and {disfmarker} I think , maybe {disfmarker} I didn't look , but one thing that makes a difference is this DCoffset compensation . Uh , eh {disfmarker} Do y did you have a look at {disfmarker} at the meet uh , meeting digits , if they have a DC component , or {disfmarker} ?Grad E: I {disfmarker} I didn't . No .PhD C: Oh.Professor B: Hmm .PhD G: No . The DC component could be negligible . I mean , if you are {pause} recording it through a mike . I mean , any {disfmarker} all of the mikes have the DC removal {disfmarker} somecapacitor sitting right in {pause} that bias it .Professor B: Yeah . But this {disfmarker} uh , uh , uh , no . Because , uh , there 's a sample and hold in the A - toD. And these period these typically do have a DC offset.PhD G: Oh , OK .Professor B: And {disfmarker} and they can be surprisingly large . It depends on the electronics .PhD G: Oh , so it is the digital {disfmarker} OK . It 's the A - toD that introduces the DC in .ProfessorB: Yeah . The microphone isn't gonna pass any DC .PhD G: Yeah . Yeah . Yeah .Professor B: But {disfmarker} but ,PhD G: OK .Professor B: typi you know , unless {disfmarker} Actually , there are {pause}instrumentation mikes that {disfmarker} that do pass {disfmarker} go down to DC . But {disfmarker} but ,PhD G: Mm - hmm .Professor B: uh , no , it 's the electronics . And they {disfmarker} and {disfmarker}PhD G:Mm - hmm .Professor B: then there 's amplification afterwards . And you can get , I think it was {disfmarker} I think it was in the {pause} Wall Street Journal data that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} I can't remember"}
{"doc_id":"doc_58","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: So is {disfmarker} Why not save that .Marketing: No , you'll ha have to open it up from elsewhere .Project Manager: {gap} {disfmarker} Do you want to replace existing file , no . {vocalsound} Iactually tried to transfer it to My Documents , but {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah , you have to you have to close that window . 'Cause that's the save one isn't it , so {disfmarker} And then find it .Project Manager:{gap} spreadsheet .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah , but I've ta uhMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: right , I'll just re-do it . That's the easiest way . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Right .User Interface: Well we've made our prototype anyway . We can have a good look at that . {vocalsound}Marketing: You pass it round to have a look .User Interface: {vocalsound} Mm-hmm . Y no , it's a slightlycurved around the sides . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Mm very nice .User Interface: Um , it's almost curved like up to the main display as well . And the little line at the bottom indicates the bit {disfmarker}the panel that you pull down .Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: And the extra function buttons are below that panel on the little line .Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: And we've got the stick on the button withthe company logo on .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: We also have a apple slash cherry design at the top .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} So it is , yeah .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound} {gap} {vocalsound}Marketing: Cherry would be alright actually .User Interface: Yeah ,Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: it's a bit more fun , isn't it ? And it's kinda not really at a kind of {disfmarker} youthink apple , you think computers , like Apple Mac .Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah , we might get a {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm . Copyright , yeah . What's this this one ?User Interface: Yeah , and cherries arefun , summery .Marketing: What's that one there ?User Interface: Ah , that's the mute .Industrial Designer: For the M_ . {vocalsound}Marketing: Oh , okay . Right .User Interface: {gap} {vocalsound} It {disfmarker}it'd probably have to be labelled mute .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: They're thinking {disfmarker}User Interface: But um , we didn't have anything small enough to write .Marketing: Uh-huh .IndustrialDesigner: For the first time , well it was hard to get the h um the actual labelling on the individual buttons .Marketing: Okay . Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah . Uh , we just chose simple shapes for allthem .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Um , the important ones are the volume ones . So we made them a bit bigger . The mute could possibly be a bit smaller .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Hum ,you separate off in colour the volume related buttons from the channel related buttons , so you've got the volume in orange on design there ,User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah .IndustrialDesigner: and the the channel is in blue .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: R right . Um ,User Interface: Yeah , and we chose a V_ plus and V_ minus .Project Manager: all these things have cost implications .And so when I done my thing on cost {vocalsound} a {disfmarker} I had assumed that the only uh button that would be a different colour would be the uh the red apple button . So {disfmarker} However , I've now{gap} . {vocalsound} But um , {vocalsound} yeah so uh but there would be a cost implication on that ,Marketing: I'll see if I can find them .Project Manager: and uh {disfmarker} as I suppose that {vocalsound} sowhether {vocalsound} wanted to put in all these colours , would be uh open to debate , I suppose .Industrial Designer: Yeah , sisUser Interface: Well the colours wouldn't {disfmarker} like that's {disfmarker} theywouldn't be too important ,Marketing: Have {disfmarker}User Interface: but we didn't have any white Play-Doh . {vocalsound} So that's where the colour buttons came from . {vocalsound}Project Manager:{vocalsound} An important consideration .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Right , okay so um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} And the second one underneath would be the idea for the{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yes , we'll have the slide-away .Project Manager: Right , okay . So we've got um detail design meeting .Industrial Designer: Bottom .Project Manager: Right . So {disfmarker} So ,we've got {vocalsound} prototype presentation , which we've just done , evaluation criteria , um and finance , so I guess w we have to evaluate if that meets the various uh aspects that we're looking for uh from umour previous meeting .Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So other than the fact that it doesn't have the second layer , but um obviously obviously it would .Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} But other than that , we got the red apple . We got the buttons and the only thing that has really changed is the is thecolouration of the buttons ,Industrial Designer: Yes , yes .Project Manager: and {vocalsound} the bit after the evaluation criteria is uh is the finance . {vocalsound} And the {vocalsound} and the cost implication.Industrial Designer: Okay .Marketing: Right .Project Manager: The only snag about this is that uh {vocalsound} the cost is probably kind of important . So um , and then the production evaluation , as to how easy thatwould be to uh to manufacture .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Um , and whether it would uh {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} So if you had to do a presentation or {disfmarker}will you just work it on the prototype ?Industrial Designer: This this is a {disfmarker}User Interface: Uh , that's it . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: yes , this is our presentation of the prototype .Marketing: That's theprProject Manager: Right , so uh as far as the the finance of it would be concern would be to make sure that the cost {disfmarker} aye the production cost 'cause you may remember that was one of the first uhconsiderations was to be in d under um uh twelve fifty or two and a half {disfmarker} uh twelve and a half Euros .Marketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: So , there's no redesign . So thatshould uh {disfmarker} Right , so , seems to me that the thing that I have to do is is quickly find that uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Could we get this on the board just so we can see {disfmarker} or do youmean do you have the figures there ?Marketing: {gap} we should {gap} plug it in .Project Manager: Right .Marketing: Do you wanna plu do you wanna plug it in into the the back of that one .Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: 'Kay , Alice . So , shMarketing: We could do it as we d go along , the production costs , looking at the prototype .Project Manager: Right . {gap} .Industrial Designer: 'Kay this should be then.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay , so , by the fact that we've got uh the simple chip and the uh kinetic energy source , we've got a single curved case . We've got a rubber uh case materials supplements . So , wehad decided that we're having rubber buttons and {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound} Have a push button interface .Project Manager: Okay . W the button supplements .Industrial Designer: Um{disfmarker}Project Manager: Well , originally , I thought there would just be uh one in there because it was the one red apple . But {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Um {disfmarker}Project Manager: So the so thereal w the real question then would come in . Do you make all the buttons {disfmarker}Marketing: Well do we'll do it on the prototype ,Project Manager: OMarketing: so do two , see how much it is .Project Manager:Well , so we've got one special button form , which was the apple . Everything else is gonna be a standard .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: We've got special material , rubber , wood ,titanium , et cetera and that ,Industrial Designer: And then we'd have {disfmarker}Project Manager: so , I was {disfmarker} {vocalsound} originally , I was thinking {gap} rubber wasn't special ,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: but according to this , maybe it is .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: {vocalsound} So {disfmarker} And the r I mean effectively we've got sixteen buttons that we're gonna have on there.Marketing: Yeah . I think you just do one , don't you , for the {disfmarker}Project Manager: W {vocalsound} I don't know {vocalsound} is {vocalsound} is {vocalsound} is the sort of answer , is that meant to be allsixteen buttons , and therefore {disfmarker} I mean , what's the op The option was maybe not to have rubber buttons , but just to have the one that was soft and spongy , and therefore {disfmarker}Marketing: I thinkI think it's just it's just a one . Else {disfmarker}Project Manager: Whereas it would be {disfmarker} the special colour would be for the {disfmarker} So you would only have the one special button that was rubber ,whereas the rest would be hard plastic . {vocalsound}Marketing: I thi I think I think the button supplement i is just a supplement for all the buttons {gap} made in a different material , rather than per button .ProjectManager: Mm .Marketing: I don't know though .Project Manager: I would {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {disfmarker} Every design change is uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} sound] I dunno ,Marketing: Hmm .ProjectManager: um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Okay , um , if we just had all the buttons as standard , except for the one red apple , then that would take care of that , I guess . We'd have one special colour and one specialbutton form .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: And when I plugged that in last time {disfmarker} {gap} remember it has to be under twelve and a half . As far as I know , that um {vocalsound} that took care ofthe uh of the various supplements .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: And if {disfmarker} What happened ?Marketing: You've just gone off the window into another one . It's on the bottom row .User Interface:Maybe if you just minimise that one in the top right-hand corner of the little box .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Now , right . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}ProjectManager: Okay , so , but the point would be that if we uh if we just did special {disfmarker} Sorry , you were saying that it would be that one , that you would put in one there .Marketing: Yeah . Yeah .Project Manager:Okay .Industrial Designer: So that's nine point one there so we've got some {disfmarker}Project Manager: So it {disfmarker} Well , is it s is {disfmarker} no , it's nine point seven I've got .Industrial Designer: 'Kay.Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: Just give us a bit of {disfmarker}Project Manager: So , that would {vocalsound} that would work out fine if uh uh as assuming your correction are are{vocalsound} {disfmarker} assuming that that one change covers all the buttons , then that would be fine .Marketing: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .Project Manager: And there's nothing else as far as I can see that we we haduh planned to put on {gap} .User Interface: SMarketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I {gap} switching around those th um on the electronics we got the sample sensor . At the moment we've just got the simplechip , which costs one .Project Manager: Uh-huh .Industrial Designer: Um , I guess the sample sens sample speaker would be the voice recognition thing , which puts up to four ?Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer:We should be slightly over our budget but if we gather something else down to slightly lower standard , and maybe go with the one the special form buttons , then we could have the speech {disfmarker}Marketing:Yeah .Project Manager: Well , hold on . Um , if we Okay , that gives us twelve point sevenIndustrial Designer: So uh maybe if we got rid of like the maybe one of the special colours , kept them all the same colour , thenwe could have the voice recognitionProject Manager: But remember that the idea was to keep it the colour of the {gap} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: without {disfmarker}Project Manager: Oh , I see , so just takeout the special colour for the apple and {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah .User Interface: Um , {gap} . D wouldn't you have to keep the simple chip there as well ? You know how you turn that one to a zero, wouldn't the chip and the sample speaker be separate things ,Marketing: Yeah , we have to have it {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Oh possibly , yeah , yeah maybe .User Interface: so you need both of them?Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Maybe um we'd be giving up on the kinetic . Um {disfmarker}Project Manager: And go for battery instead .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: That would give you one less.Industrial Designer: We should {disfmarker} Yeah , that would save us one , though we'd still be slightly ovProject Manager: But you reckon that i I mean the thing is that you wanted to a appeal to people and nothave to replace batteries .Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah . Well , since it's the {disfmarker} through the whole technology type thing , um , you were saying in the market research that people like kind of interestinggadgets in them . Um , whether they would figure the {vocalsound} the s uh sample senor and the sample speaker , voice recognition be sort of a worthwhile thing to have .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer:And then still have the batteries ,Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: or whatever they would prefer not uh {disfmarker} You know what I mean ? The the problem was the battery's running out and losing the umlosing the remote .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: So you gotta decide which of those is more important to them .Project Manager: {vocalsound} But which do you think {disfmarker}or which do we think is the more important of the options ? In a sense , at the moment , we've got a total which we need to reduce down by one point two .User Interface: I think the voice recognition .Project Manager:At least . Remember that was a minimum requirement . The other option if we're planning on just going for something cheap and cheerful , would be to um make it {gap} originally , we're gonna make it a simpleproduct .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Shall we shall we evaluate the prototype as we've got it now first , and then sort of make decisions about what needs to be changed after ?Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Makes sense .Industrial Designer: OkayMarketing: Okay . Right um , I have a little thing . So , we've all got a note of {disfmarker} it's thirteen point seven , isn't it , with everything we want on .Project Manager: {gap}. Sorry , do you want that back up ?Marketing: Yeah , I just had a presentation to do . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Right .User Interface: But I do think uh the v uh voice recognition thing would be more impressivethan the fact that it's got no battery .Project Manager: Okay , but remember the main {disfmarker} the only reason we were planning on having the voice recognition was so that they could find the remote if it got lost.Marketing: Mm-hmm . Mm . {vocalsound} Right okay um , This is about the evaluation criteria that we use for the the prototype we've got here .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: And so the method is that thedesign team makes a prototype , and we evaluate the prototype against some criteria that we've formulated . And those ones are gonna be in response to sort of market research , and also finance , I guess .{vocalsound} And do that on a scale from say true being one and false being seven , so if it's neither true nor false , then that's four . So , I got a set of criteria just based on the marketing that we need to add in afinancial one as well , at the end . Um so , We have to say whether it's true or false that the product looks and feels fancy . Um {disfmarker} The {disfmarker} whether the product demonstrates technical innovation .Whether it's easy to use . Whether it's incorporating sort of the fashion element to attract the buyer . And whether it's a sort of recognisable Real Reaction product . And I have to go up onto the whiteboard and do thisapparently ,Industrial Designer: Okay .Marketing: so {vocalsound} I'll go over here . {vocalsound} Right . So the first one is um , does the product look and feel fancy . So if we do a sort of a one {disfmarker} So{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Okay , well we have a single curve , which was {gap} maybe like the feel of the product's quite good .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: So uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: Um , then we have the rubber kinda spongy feel , which was in at the time .Marketing: Yeah . Yeah . Yeah .Industrial Designer: Um , {vocalsound} sorry that'd be considered fancy .User Interface:Yeah , I'd maybe give it a a two .Marketing: {vocalsound} Of {disfmarker} but I think {disfmarker} What {disfmarker} Is one false , or is t one true ?User Interface: One's true .Marketing: I forgot . One's true , andokay . Seven's falUser Interface: And a four is neutral .Marketing: Four is neutral , okay . So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So maybe {gap} maybe a two .User Interface: Yeah , 'cause we haven't got the doublecurve , so we can't like say it's completely true .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Go for one . {vocalsound} Yep .Marketing: Right .User Interface: {vocalsound} But it's pretty close . We've got almost everything we can.Marketing: Okay . Right .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: I gonna put underneath so I've got some more space . So , false is seven , true is one , and {disfmarker} So uh say about a two for fancy ,IndustrialDesigner: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: you think ?Project Manager: Yeah , why not not ,Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: m m maybe nearer three .Marketing: Okay , well d you do an average at the end , Idon't know . Um {disfmarker}Project Manager: Two three . Well , it's just that uh saying something {disfmarker} {vocalsound} remember that when you look down , we've got solar power , we've got uh various otherthings you could have , and we're not going for these options .Marketing: Uh-huh . This this is just this is just for like the look . Does it sort of look fancy rather than functional . So {disfmarker}Project Manager:Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah , I suppose that might be in the technical innovation bit .Marketing: Yeah , so that {disfmarker} so sh should we go for a a two on that ?Project Manager: Okay .Marketing:'Kay . And I mean , how much does the product demonstrate technical innovation do you reckon ?Industrial Designer: Um , {gap} deciding between the kinetic power or um the speech recognition , and if we had eitherof those for our budget , they both show a reasonable amount of speech recognition .Marketing: D yeah . Okay . So , what about the pr The prototype as it is ,Industrial Designer: Um {disfmarker}Marketing: we've gotwe've got the speech recognition on it , haven't we .Industrial Designer: But not the kinetic .Marketing: But not the kinetic .Industrial Designer: Like the power .Project Manager: No . 'Cause you can't afford that{disfmarker} w we took that out too .Industrial Designer: No , we c ca yeah , we can't afford both .Marketing: Alright , so {disfmarker}Project Manager: Didn't you ? Or {disfmarker}Marketing: So it doesn't{disfmarker} It's pretty {disfmarker} The prototype as it is isn't sort of um fulfilling the {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: No may is {disfmarker} maybe about neutralUser Interface: Maybe a three .Industrial Designer:plus it it it's got something , but it hasn't got {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay . Yeah .Project Manager: Well , wait a minute . In thirteen point seven we do have kinetic .User Interface: I would give it morethan a four .Project Manager: The problem is we have to reduce down from there to get it down to twelve point five .Industrial Designer: Right .Project Manager: And one way of doing that would be to take out thekinetic .Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: So , it's very much dependant on what you do with your options . And if you're definitely going for the sample sensor and sample speaker , then {disfmarker}because that {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: 'Kay .Marketing: Right , okay .Project Manager: the other functions we've got in are are more at the {vocalsound} {disfmarker} The special material , the rubber , wood ,titanium , et cetera , if you go for that , th that's at the high end 'cause that's point six , whereas down at uh just special colours uh is point two . Now you're trying to lose one point two , so it seems to me that if you'regoing for the sample sensors {disfmarker} speaker , you're basically then having to go for the cheaper options on everything else .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: And and the simple"}
{"doc_id":"doc_59","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Mm yeah .Project Manager: Okay . {vocalsound} I g yeah . Time is it ?Marketing: {vocalsound} Fourteen twenty six .Project Manager: Okay . Lovely to see you all again. Um {vocalsound} it's our conceptual design meeting and it's starting at approximately fourteen twenty five and so we have forty minutes for this one again and so we'll go just after three o'clock . Um okay{vocalsound} our agenda , we're gonna do an opening , I'm gonna review the minutes of the last meeting , then we'll have your three presentations um and then we'll have to make a decision on the remote controlconcepts , and finally we'll close . SoIndustrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: opening . Um these are our minutes from r the functional design . We decided our target group is the focus on who can afford it ,because we have international appeal and we said it's for all age groups , different um functions of it . Our main objectives were simplicity and fashion . {vocalsound} And s um in specific functions are something tokeep the remote from getting lost , large buttons for the essential functions , a possibility for extra functions , like a sliding a sliding piece {vocalsound} and a long-life battery or a charging station . Okay , now threepresentations . I'd like to do it in this order , first do the conceptual specification of components , properties and materials {vocalsound} um and then the conceptual specification of user interface {vocalsound} andfinally trend watching .Industrial Designer: That would be me .User Interface: Yep .Industrial Designer: Alright . Well .Project Manager: Mm . 'kay . Function F_ eight it . There we go .Industrial Designer: Alright . UmI'm very excited by this one actually guys I uh had a lot of fun doing it . Components design . This is where you look at what does it take to make a remote control and what should we make our specific remote controlout of . {vocalsound} Um . So , we need to examine each element separately , but we're designing a full thing , so you wanna keep it integrated as a whole . The main elements of remote controls in general , andtherefore ours as well , are the case , the buttons , the circuit board with the chip and the battery . These are all things that we had sort of addressed before , but I'm gonna take each one a little bit separately here aswe figure out what they should be made of and what they should look like . The case , uh the options that I've gotten from headquarters about what we can do , um there's there's the shape of a case , we could do a flatsh a flat case , a curved case or maybe even a double double-curved case . I haven't seen any pictures of what this exactly looks like yet , just keep that in mind , but these are the options that we have frommanufacturing and we can make our case out of plastic , the m the main base will be plastic , but we have all these sort of fashion and technological elements we can add in , wood , latex , titanium , rubber or othercoloured types of plastic . That would be our case . Um buttons , for buttons we have um pushbuttons , which is what Real Reaction uses the most often , but we also have scror scroll wheels ,Project Manager: Mm.Industrial Designer: which can have integrated pushbuttons , or we could go all high-tech and have an L_ L_C_D_ screen . {vocalsound} Um circuit board and chip we can have a simple one , a regular one or anadvanced one , depending on what our other needs are . And then battery I think is where things get most exciting . We're talking about long-life batteries here . {vocalsound} Um we can we can have your sort of basicdouble A_ batteries , but we also have these options of um {vocalsound} using a kinetic battery , like are used in high-tech watches , where you just have to move it a little bit to get it to power up . Um so simplemovements like pushing buttons would recharge the battery . Or a solar battery , although there are slight um {vocalsound} complications with solar batteries as in we can't use a latex case if we have a solar battery.Project Manager: Hmm .Industrial Designer: Or um something they only described as the type of battery you find in torches from about fifty years ago , flashlights . Not quite sure what that is , but that's thedescription that I received , so that's what I'm passing on to you . {vocalsound} So those are our options . Um personal preferences that I was thinking through {disfmarker} here's what we've been talking about allthrough , fashion and simplicity . So if we're going for fashion in our cases , I think that what we're gonna wanna look at is a curved or a double-curved case , probably with a variety of design elements . Maybe titanium, maybe some wood . We're gonna have to investigate that better when I get specifics of the actual materials , but that's sort of what I have in mind . And we wanna go for simplicity . Probably pushbuttons , but I'msort of intrigued by the idea of a scroll scroll wheel , if anyone has anythingProject Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: any ideas on that ? I mean I know the iPods and things right now have touch scroll um buttonswhich are exactly like what they're describing , so that might be something we wanna look into . And I'm really intrigued by the idea of a kinetic battery . {vocalsound} Solar I don't think would be such a good idea ,because how often are you sure that your remote control will get a certain amount of light .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: But this idea of the kinetic , that you don't have to replace , and that asimple just shaking it around will make it work , I think that that m would be a very interesting thing . But I think we'd also wanna go for e a simple chip or regular chip to keep our costs down . Uh we really only need aregular or advanced chip t if we're gonna start using an L_C_D_ . So I think we want to be aware of not making things overly t technological if they don't need to be , 'cause that'll keep our manufacturing price waydown . That's what I have for options . Um I'd appreciate anyone's input , but that's what I'm seeing for the future of the the look of this thing . {vocalsound}Marketing: Is double-curved like {disfmarker} would be liketwo hands kind of thing ?Industrial Designer: I'm not sure . I haven't received any specificMarketing: {vocalsound} Okay .Industrial Designer: visuals of this yet .Marketing: 'Cause I'm imagining like double-curved islike , you know , like two sides that curveIndustrial Designer: This is what I'm sort of {disfmarker}Marketing: and then like one curve would just be like a single vertical-ish kind of looking thing ,Industrial Designer:{vocalsound} Yeah . I'm not sure ,Marketing: but I've no idea .Industrial Designer: but I'll let you know as soon as I get any pictures .Marketing: Sounds good .Project Manager: Yeah , I wonder {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: I know if we do have a double-curved case , it can't have any titanium in it . But the titanium , they were quite {disfmarker} they're marketing quite hard to us as being used in the space programme , so thatcould be quite interesting .User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Space-age remote .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound} Just an interesting marketing kind of element .IndustrialDesigner: Just all things to keep in mind . Yeah . {vocalsound} That's about all I have to do , guys . I hope I didn't go through that too quickly .Project Manager: Uh just a real quick question um the weight of thesedifferent elements , have you {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah , nProject Manager: no idea , okay .Industrial Designer: no idea , no idea . Um I'm assuming that a kinetic battery isn't gonna take up that muchweight ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: and that a tita titanium is very light , I know ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: um but other than {disfmarker}Project Manager: {gap}IndustrialDesigner: that's really basic , I mean , that's all I have gotten so far . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: Alright ? Any other questions ?User Interface: Uh-huh . Don't think so .IndustrialDesigner: No ? Okay .Project Manager: Mm 'kay .Industrial Designer: I have save this in the uh shared projects , if anyone wants to lookProject Manager: Thank you , perfect .Industrial Designer: and I have cconsiderable notes on the topic as well , if anyone needs any more information . Uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Thanks .Project Manager: Um if you made notes yourself you can put those on our um {disfmarker}underneath our {disfmarker} oh , uh in your book ,Industrial Designer: Just in my notebook ,Project Manager: then don't worry about that .Industrial Designer: but if anyone has any specific questions , don't hesitate toemail me or something . Alright ? Uh I guess I can {disfmarker}Project Manager: 'Kay now we're um concepts concepts of user interface . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah , um . This one'sso much tighter than the other one .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I know .Project Manager: Okay . Nope . There we go . Here you are .User Interface: Jess .Industrial Designer: G oh , geez .User Interface: Alright ,so I'm gonna describe the the concept of the user interface of this des device . Um we've talked about uh the two essential properties of the user interface . We want it to be simple and we want it to be fashionable . Umother {disfmarker} we've also got to remember that this is a device that serves as a useful purpose . Uh we want people to be able to use it s as a remote control , so we need to determine what the essential functionsof the d of the device are and make sure that we include {disfmarker} that we've included all of those and that we actually end up with a device that is going to be useful to people . We have a number of differentchoices for a design concept um and s that's that's something that that I'll show you some examples of um , but essentially we need to choose how how is this device going to work ,Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}User Interface: how how {disfmarker} what kind of model is there going to be for user interaction with this device . Uh once we've chosen a a concept for it , we can then design the features around theconcept , making sure that we get all the essential functions in the device and uh the extra functions and the more advanced features . And of course we also have to make it look cool .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}User Interface: So basically ,Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: that's what we don't want . {vocalsound} M we don't want lots of buttons , uh complicated features . We want something that looksnice and simple .Industrial Designer: Hmm .User Interface: Here's a a fairly simple device . This is an an iPod from Apple . Um I think the main thing to notice about it is it just has four buttons . It's very minimalistic inits design . Uh you use these four buttons to m to move around a range of settings on the small L_C_D_ screen . Um {vocalsound} the thing I like about this is that it's very very quick to access the main features . Uhyou can just about make out uh that the button {disfmarker} three buttons are uh previous track , next track and play pause . They're the main the main features of the iPod , the things you will use a all the time . Umthen if you want to do anything more advanced , you go into the little menu on the L_C_D_ screen and you use the buttons just to scroll around and and find the more advanced features that you want . So I think that'sthat's a good a good kind of model that we could have . Um {vocalsound} here's a another example . This is uh {disfmarker} it's an interesting idea and I think i it looks pretty cool . Um it's certainly got novelty value.Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: Uh it's nice and colourful , it's nice and bright . Uh it's also something that you can kind of feel your way around . The buttons are are different shapes and and you can sort of{disfmarker} yeah if you're watching T_V_ in the dark or whatever , you can work out which button's which and basically , yeah it's ith it's fun . So I {vocalsound} I like I like this idea of just having buttons for thefeatures that you use most often . So you'd need a few buttons to select your favourite channels . I mean most people , when they watch T_V_ , they have two hundred and fifty channels on their T_V_ and they watchof 'bout four of them at the most . So , you have buttons for your favourite channel , changing the volume , which is something you do all the time when you're watching T_V_ , and the button to switch it off , in caseyou get bored . Um other features , things like adjusting the brightness , tuning the T_V_ , uh I don't know what else you do with a T_V_ . Um but these are these are all necessary functions . Uh you can't have a tthere's no point having a television that you can't tune or that you can't set the contrast , so we need to find a way of including these somehow . Um and one other suggestions I'd make is to in is to include in a menusystem , a bit like on the iPod . So we'd either have a small L_C_D_ display on the device itself , or uh have a dis a menu display that comes up on your television and can b be controlled through the device .IndustrialDesigner: Hmm .User Interface: And that would allow you to access access the advanced features uh whilst keeping a very small and simple set of buttons for the features that you use most often .Project Manager:{vocalsound} Okay .Industrial Designer: So you'd be advocating an L_C_D_ then ?User Interface: I think that's {vocalsound} that's one way to go , yes .Industrial Designer: Okay .User Interface: Um I mean there arethere are advantages and disadvantages if you if you have an L_C_D_ display , it's it's nice , because it's {disfmarker} it it lets you just sort of sit there and st and control your television from your armchair .IndustrialDesigner: Mm-hmm .User Interface: There are disadvantages , an an L_C_D_ display would have to be quite small , 'cause we're we're {vocalsound} I {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: RightUser Interface: well we're{disfmarker} I assume we're gonna be making quite a small device . Um it would also have to have uh a kind of backlighting in it , 'cause you ten you tend to watch T_V_ in the dark ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Right .User Interface: but you need to be able to see your L_D_D_ L_C_D_ display . The alternative is to have a {vocalsound} an on-screen display on your television that you control through yourremote control . Uh a bit like a bit like how they have these um digital boxes where you you press the buttons and it comes up with your {disfmarker} this thing of watch lo what's on each channel .Project Manager:Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Okay .User Interface: I mean that that's also a good idea . It's it can it does have it's problems as well , if you've got a small T_V_ and you're sitting on the other side of a room , it's hardto read the little text that comes up .Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Uh but that's a that's a design decision that we can make .Industrial Designer: 'Kay .Project Manager: I dothink that um one of the important features for a remote is seeing a menu and seeing what's on .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um and soUser Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: like favourite channels is isapplicable , but I think th that you do need to have some kind of function where it's {disfmarker} um you have t you can see the title of the show or possibly a description of it .Industrial Designer: Well {disfmarker}Are you are you takProject Manager: Like I I know I use that often enough .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound} Wait , but is that separate from what he was saying ?Project Manager: WellIndustrialDesigner: Yeah .Project Manager: if it if it was a L_ L_C_D_ on th on the remote , I don't know that you could f that you'd be able to see a {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: No , I think I think we're talking menu likecontrast and tuning the V_C_R_ or something if I've understood you correctly , rather than menu as what's on .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Yeah , that that would be one of the features , yes .ProjectManager: Okay . 'Cause that would be more specifically a digital box ,User Interface: But it's it's it's something to bear in mind is that if we put a display on the remote control the c uh communication is one way ,ProjectManager: mm-hmm .User Interface: so you can't have the televisions and information back to the remote control , at least I don't think you can .Industrial Designer: Oh , good point .Project Manager: Mm .UserInterface: Um I'm not sure .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay , now we're moving on to market . Marketing .Marketing: {vocalsound} Should I plug that in ?Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound}User Interface: Is that going on ? Okay .Marketing: Maybe it's just not {disfmarker}User Interface: Uh that should be alright , actually .Marketing: Is it on ? Ri What F_ do you have to press ,ProjectManager: Eight .Marketing: five ? I just keep pressing lots of 'em . Well , I don't know how relevant all of this gonna be . {vocalsound} If anything , the {gap} that they gave me .Project Manager: Oops , it's notplugged in , quite in well enough .Industrial Designer: No signal .Marketing: Alright .Project Manager: There we are .Industrial Designer: Oop , there we go .Project Manager: Mm 'kay .Marketing: Oh yeah .{vocalsound} Okay , so we're gonna look a little bit at trend watching . {vocalsound} Basically , I was given um an executive summary that was a market investigation on remote controls that was recently conducted ,and then also some fashion watchers in Paris and Milan commented on some things that are gonna be going on this year .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} So first um they had people{disfmarker} they ranked um the important aspects of r remote controls , and right now i d they're saying that currently there's a functional look and feel preference , but that really , over the next year it it that's gonnabe switching to fancy look and feel remotes , so that just goes back to the whole desire of our c Real Reaction company wanting to focus on fashion and so , even though we're stressing , when we're talking , we've allbeen talking about this like simplicity and easy to use idea , they're sort of wanting us to remember that the number one thing for everyone is that it's fancy look and feel . And as these are ranked , the top one isdoubly important to the second one , which is doubly important to the third one ,Industrial Designer: Okay .Marketing: so just to take that weight into account . {vocalsound} The second thing that was mentioned asimportant was the technological innovations . That would be like if we use something like the space material or the L_C_D_ screen , things like that . And then ease of use was the third most important , whi so really ,no matter what , we need to focus the most on fancy look and feel , according to this . I don't know how much we agree with that . {vocalsound} And then {vocalsound} the fashion watch talks about that this year's toptrend for clothes ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: shoes and furniture is fruits and vegetables and tha that there's a preference for spongy , {vocalsound} tight material .UserInterface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: S sweet .Marketing: {vocalsound} And so that brings us to my personal preferences . Who wants a spongy remote or one with {vocalsound} fruit and vegetable padding.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Personally , I don't really think that I want one that's gonna go out of style or go stale , excuse the pun , um in a year , soUser Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} even though this is coming from us as , you know , trend watch , market research , I don't know how much of it we necessarily {vocalsound} wanna take away .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}Marketing: Also , considering that the d research b has been carried out by Real Reaction , I'm a little hesitant as to {vocalsound} like , how these questions may have been worded , and ifnecessarily this whole fashion to technology y edas ease of use is necessarily the right ranking . Personally , like I might reverse it , but if we're working for this company then I guess no matter what , we have to stressfashion the most . {vocalsound} But {vocalsound} it doesn't necessarily need to be a spongy material . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Mm . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: That{disfmarker} there's all kinds of scope for imagination in that one though .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah . {vocalsound} I don't have a lot of notes to share if you want them ,Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: that pretty much sums it up . So yeah .Project Manager: Okay , do we have any {disfmarker} s some questions for this , let's see um .Marketing: Yeah , what can I"}
{"doc_id":"doc_60","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay . Good morning everybody .Industrial Designer: Good morning .Project Manager: Oh , everybody is not ready .User Interface: Uh almost .Project Manager: Alright .User Interface:Ready .Project Manager: Okay , let's go . So , we're here today to to have our first kick-off meeting about uh this new project we're going to tak to talk about in a few minutes . Um so I will be uh Sebastian the ProjectManager . Um you are the {disfmarker}User Interface: I'm uh Michael . I'm the user interface designer .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Hi I'm Guillermo {gap} . I'm the Marketing Expert .Industrial Designer: And Iam Hemant , the industrial designer .Project Manager: Okay , very good . Thanks for being here . Um so let's have a look to the the agenda . So , we are going to go through this agenda uh and mainly first to uh{vocalsound} to make {disfmarker} to to be used to the tools uh available in this nice and smart meeting room we have here . Um then we'll go to uh the plans for project and have general discussions about it . So ,the goal of this project is to uh developed a new remote control . Um it should be original , trendy , and also user friendly . As usual we will follow the the project method um {vocalsound} that we are using in the{disfmarker} in our company . It is in three step as you know . First the functional design . The second's a conceptual design , and then the detailed design . During each step uh of each design we wi you will work uh sseparately , individually on uh your specific tasks and will m we will meet to um to discuss and take decisions about uh what you've you've you did and what uh we will do next . So first , we have to to train ourself withall the um the tools availables in the in this nice meeting room and uh particularly the the white board so uh we are going to go through the white board and take some um s some notes or do some drawings . So whowant to start ? Mister {gap} .User Interface: Ah well if no one else wants to , yeah . Okay so , want me to draw my favourite animal .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Let's see . Well , I don'treally have a favourite animal , but umProject Manager: You have one in mind ?User Interface: uh I think I have one in mind , so uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I'm gonna {vocalsound} {gap} about the uh spiderbecause you can actually draw it pretty well in the corner of a white board . The spider has a {disfmarker} spider lives in a web {vocalsound} and uh it has eight legs , and uh it can move all about the web in twodimensions . Unless it's a three dimensional web which y they have sometimes . There are some spiders that live in like {disfmarker} that have like uh kind of a a big ball of a of a web . And uh the other thing is somespiders can actually uh fly like uh they have uh they let out like uh a stream of like the web building material but it's it acts like a parachute so they can actually kind of go and find new uh {disfmarker} build a new websomewhere else . So I think they did this in uh in Charlotte's Web that movie that little uh {disfmarker} well it's actually a book first but uh um at the end all the the spiders kinda flew away .Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: So , that's my animal .Project Manager: Th thank you . Very interesting . {vocalsound} Guillermo you want to ?Marketing: {vocalsound} 'kay {vocalsound} I dunno why , but {vocalsound} when I wasa child I I wanted to be a a pantherProject Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} not a pink panther ,Industrial Designer: But don't you think it's very difficult to draw a panther ?Marketing: or maybe yes.Project Manager: {vocalsound} It would be very funny for us .Marketing: Uh yeah yeah .Industrial Designer: So bad I don't like it . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: Okay it's a friendly panther .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Maybe it's happy 'cause it just ate someone .Marketing: Yeah maybe {vocalsound}.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Um . Actually , honestly I I I dunno what's what's his it's be behaviour , I dunno if if it's the male who who hunts or it's the female uh , I I I have watched that lions di didn't huntit's the the female lions who who hunt , so {disfmarker} but {vocalsound} I like it because it's fast , and it's black as well , so it can he {disfmarker} it can hide itself very easily and it's it's {disfmarker} it looks like um{vocalsound} powerful , strong , uh I dunno . I I watch a a film about a black panther when I was a child and {vocalsound} I was in that age when everything was shocking me a lot . {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay . Thank you .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Hemant .Industrial Designer: Um sure .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: So you don't like pink panthers ?{vocalsound}Marketing: I like it {vocalsound} .Project Manager: {gap} {gap}Industrial Designer: Oh yeah . Thanks . This lapel is coming out once in a while . It's not very strong . Okay . So , not the favourite animal ,but I think I'll draw elephant .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I'll try to draw elephant {vocalsound} . It's a problem . Okay , thanks . Okay so , elephant goes like this , {gap} and then it has fourfeet {vocalsound} . I don't know whether there's any dist there should be any distance or not , but I think this is the easiest . And then we have it's trunk . And yep something like this {vocalsound} .Project Manager:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: An eye , cute {vocalsound} .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah , so {disfmarker}Project Manager: Poor elephant {vocalsound} .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} andsometimes they have a hump . It seems that uh elephants are pretty friendly and they they have one very important way {disfmarker} a different way of walking . So when they walk , wherever they are going to puttheir first feet , the second feet will always be . When they'll come to that position the second , the third feet will be there . That's the way they walk . And that's very peculiar about them . None of the other animalswalk like this . And they are very useful to human beings . At least few few hundred years ago when there was no means of transportations or something , or when they had to carry huge um loads from one place toanother , elephants were very useful . And they are found in um usually the warm countries . And um they are the biggest terrestrial animal . That's what I know about them . So , that's what I wanted to tell aboutelephants .User Interface: So is this uh an Indian or an African elephant , 'cause you haven't drawn the ears ?Industrial Designer: There are two kind of uh yeah , they are very different , Indian and African elephants .So Indian elephant is having one bump , I think , and the African have two . And then there's a difference in the trunk of the animals , these elephants who are Indian and {disfmarker} So at some {disfmarker} forsome elephants it's {disfmarker} the trunk is having one {disfmarker} Do we have some message there ?Project Manager: Yes . We have to {disfmarker} I have to catch you ,Industrial Designer: Wind upProjectManager: sorry . We have to to go through the meeting .Industrial Designer: ? Okay , some other time .User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: Thank you .Project Manager: Thank you {vocalsound} .User Interface:We can discuss that off-line .Project Manager: Yeah we'll discuss a f a fly or do {disfmarker} we'll do another meeting abo on elephants .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Thanks .Project Manager: {vocalsound} So{vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: so another important part of the project is about money , uh and about {disfmarker} so about finances . So {vocalsound} we should target selling price oftwenty-five Euro for this remote control and uh we have um {vocalsound} {disfmarker} which which would generate a profit of of um {vocalsound} fifty million Euros , okay . And we should target the inter aninternational market .User Interface: So could I just ask one question , um is this a stand-alone unit that we're gonna be selling ? So it's gonna be you already have a T_V_ but you're buying an extra remote control forit or something ?Project Manager: O this is the {vocalsound} next topic we have to discuss exactly ,User Interface: Okay , alright .Project Manager: so let's go to it . So um we should decide which kind of remote controlwe want to uh we want to uh we want to go . Should be should should it be um specific remote control to some specific device ? Should it be a universal one ? And uh etcetera . So um {vocalsound} so I'm waiting foryour for your inputs very quickly because we have only three three minutes to go .User Interface: Okay well , so , it seems the the first thing that they've kinda specified is the price like based on how much profit wewanna make , which seems to {disfmarker} a kind of a little strange if we don't know what the the product is yet , but I guess if that's {disfmarker} if that's the requirement that we need to to design the the product toactually fit that that price bracket so , I guess we're gonna need to find out what's actually {disfmarker} you know , what people ar are willing to pay for {disfmarker} um what kind of product they're expecting fortwenty-five EuroProject Manager: Okay .User Interface: because it seems quite a lot for a remote control ,Project Manager: Okay I think this is more a job to ourUser Interface: so it's {disfmarker}Project Manager:market person yeah .Industrial Designer: Marketing person .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: So it should be the topic of maybe of the next meeting just to to have an overview of this and uh in which direction weshould go .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: So we need to close the meeting . Uh we'll have a new meeting soon and uh so {gap} the work every every of you ha have t d to do . So um you have towork on the on the working design , you have to uh work on the technical functions , and uh you have to work on us user requirements specs , alright ?Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Um you will receive someinformation by emails , i as usual . Thanks for coming today .User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: Thanks .Industrial Designer: Thanks .User Interface: Alright ."}
{"doc_id":"doc_61","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Okay . Um welcome to our second meeting . This is the functional design meeting . And I hope you all had a good individual working time . Okay , let's get started . Okay , here's the agenda for themeeting . After the opening um I am going to fulfil the role of secretary , take the meeting minutes . And we're gonna have three presentations , one from each of you . Then we're gonna discuss some new projectrequirements . Um gonna come to a decision on the functions of the remote control . And then we're gonna close up the meeting . And we're gonna do this all in about forty minutes . {gap} Okay . First I want to discussthe goals of this meeting . First we need to determine the user requirements and the question that we can ask ourselves is what needs and desires are to be fulfilled by this remote control . And then we're going todetermine the technical functions , what is the effect of the apparatus , what actually is it supposed to do , what do people pick up the remote and use it for . And then lastly we're going to determine its working design ,how exactly will it perform its functions , that's the whole technical side of {disfmarker} 'Kay I'll just give you a minute , 'cause it looks like you're making some notes .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: 'Kay. Oh , well let's go ahead and ,User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: {gap} back , previous .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So what I wanna do right now is hear from all three ofyou , on your research that you just did . Who would like to start us off ? 'Kay .User Interface: I don't mind going first .Project Manager: Okay . Um do you have a PowerPoint or no ?User Interface: Yeah , it's in the{disfmarker} should be in the m Project .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Do you want us to do our PowerPoints now or {disfmarker}User Interface: You know you could you could do it yourself actually .ProjectManager: Oh .Industrial Designer: Did you send it ?Project Manager: Save it in the project documents .User Interface: Put it in Project Documents ,Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: yeah .Project Manager:Mm-mm-mm . This one ?User Interface: Sure . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Okay . Great .User Interface: Okay . Um well , the function {vocalsound} of a remotecontrol , as what uh we've been informed , is basically to send messages to the television set , for example , switch it on , switch it off , go to this channel , go to channel nine , turn the volume up , etcetera . Um someof the considerations is just um for example the what it needs to include it's the numbers , you know , zero to nine , so you can move to a channel , the power button on slash off , the channel going up and down ,volume going up and down , and then mute , a mute function . And then functions for V_H_S_ , D_V_D_ , for example , play , rewind , fast-forward , stop , pause , enter . And enter would be for like , you know , themenus . {vocalsound} And then other menus for D_V_ as well as T_V_ , whether that means like um we can go and decide the brightness of the screen , things like that , all the more complicated functions of menus.Project Manager: {gap}User Interface: And we can decide if that's what we want , {gap} , um if we want to include that on the remote , if that's something that would stay on the T_V_ itself , for example .ProjectManager: Okay . Okay .User Interface: These are two examples . Um and you can see on the left , it's got a lot more buttons ,Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: and I don't know if you can read it , but itsays , step , go to , freeze , um slow , repeat , program , mute , and so those are some of the buttons and so it gives you an idea of s one example . And then on the right , it's a lot more simpler , it's got volume , it'sgot the play the like circle set , which is play , rewind , but it's also what is {disfmarker} fast-forward is also like next on a menu . So you have functions that are d uh duplicating .Project Manager: Right .User Interface:And you have a mute button and then the numbers and the eject , and the power button . So that gives you two different kinds , a more complex and more simple version . Okay .Project Manager: Ready .UserInterface: And then lastly , it's just the questions that we want to consider like what functions do we want it to include , and how simple , complex it should be ? And what functions it needs to complete . Uh , what areneeded to complete insulation process , 'cause , you know , that's something that also has to be considered and it's gonna be hopefully a one-time thing , when you set it up it should be set to go , but we have toinclude the functions that can allow it to set up i in the first place .Project Manager: {gap}User Interface: So that's it .Project Manager: Alright . Very good presentation . Thank you . You speak with such authority onthe matter .User Interface: Mm . Left .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay . Who would like to um follow that one up ? Now , that we've discussed {disfmarker}Marketing: I can go .Project Manager: Okay . Do youwant me to run it or you wanna {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah , you should run it .Project Manager: Okay . {vocalsound} Functional requirements .Marketing: {vocalsound} Mm yes .Project Manager: 'Kay . Alright . Nowwe have Courtney with the functional requirements .Marketing: Yes , okay so we tested a hundred subjects in our lab , and we just we watched them and we also made them fill out a questionnaire , and we found thatthe {vocalsound} users are not typically happy with current remote controls . Seventy five percent think they're ugly . Eighty percent want {disfmarker} they've {disfmarker} are willing to spend more , which is goodnews for us um if we make it look fancier , and basically w we just need something that really I mean there's some other points up there , but they {disfmarker} it needs to be snazzy and it {disfmarker} but yet simple.User Interface: {gap} Wait .Marketing: So that's really what we need to do . And we need we need it to be simple , yet it needs to be high-tech looking . So {disfmarker}User Interface: And that meaning what?Marketing: Like {disfmarker} They like I guess use the buttons a lot .User Interface: Okay .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: {gap}Marketing: I don't know . It's from my uh research .Project Manager: Okay , what doyou mUser Interface: Right .Marketing: My team wasn't very clear .Project Manager: Oh , I'm sorry .User Interface: Only use ten percent of the buttons .Project Manager: What do you mean by um the current remotecontrols do not match well with the operating behaviour of the user , like they have to press the buttons .Marketing: {vocalsound} That's okay . I I think it's like the engineering versus user ,Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: whereas like the engineering she showed that the engineering ones are more complexProject Manager: Oh , right .Marketing: and users don't really need all of the buttons that are contained on there ,because they only use ten percent of the buttons really .Project Manager: The buttons . Okay .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah . Okay .Industrial Designer: We only use ten per cent of our brains. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: Good point .Project Manager: It works .Marketing: It's a necessary evil .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Ready for the next slide ?Marketing: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound} And so people say that they typically lose it , as you yourself know , because you probably lose your remote control all the time ,Project Manager: Hmm.Marketing: much like any small appliance like a cellphone ,User Interface: Lost .Marketing: and they {disfmarker} we need something simple , because most people , well thirty four percent say that it's just too muchtime to learn how to use a new one , and we don't want to go {disfmarker} we don't want to vary too far from the normal standard remote ,User Interface: SMarketing: but I mean they do need to be able to identify it ,and R_S_I_ , I'm not very sure what that is .Project Manager: It's okay . It's very important . {vocalsound}Marketing: Yes , it is important for the remote control world .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface:Wait , is that like your {disfmarker} ergonomics like your hand movements or something ?Marketing: ShProject Manager: Could be , yeah .Marketing: Uh possibly .Industrial Designer: Do we really need t to providemore information on what R_S_I_ is ?User Interface: Like {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh .Marketing: Uh yeah , that's what my web site said , IUser Interface: Channel , volume , power .ProjectManager: I think that's a pretty good guess though .Marketing: don't know .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah , I would assume so .User Interface: It's like if you're holding it {disfmarker}Marketing: I thinkwe're supposed to know it as remote control experts .Project Manager: Yeah . It's okay . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} But also s so the channel , the volume and the power buttons are the most important onour company website you can find like the specific statistics concerning to how much each button is used , but those are the definitely the top ones .Project Manager: Okay . Next slide ?Marketing: Yes . And sopersonally I think that we need a modern eye-catching design , but it it really needs to be simple . So saying from y your slide , your presentation , the engineering versus the user-specified remotes , I think that weshould go with something that's more user-friendly .Project Manager: User-friendly .Marketing: Where the engineering ones , the boxes , tend to make it look more complicated than it really is . Um the functionality ofthe product really needs to be considered as to like what type of buttons do we really need on it . And it needs to be open to a wide range of consumers , so even though we need a small number of buttons , we alsoneed to take in {disfmarker} like are most people going to be using it for a D_V_D_ player , a TiVo , what what exactly are we using it for , as well as the age range . So we need a hip , but not a corny marketingscheme for promoting our product .User Interface: {gap}Marketing: And also we found {disfmarker} our team found that speech recognition is {disfmarker} it's like an up-and-coming thing they really {disfmarker}consumers are really interested in it , and since our findings found that people are willing to pay more money for a remote for it to be more high-class we could consider it .Project Manager: And so just to {disfmarker}just to clarify by speech recognition you mean they would say , channel five , and the thing would go to channel five ?Marketing: I guess so , yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .User Interface:{gap} to just say , where are you , and thing beeps , you know . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Oh , that'd be lovely .Marketing: Yeah , I guess we can interpret it like , we can just try out different typesof speech recognition within our remote programme .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Didn't they {disfmarker} um didn't our rival companies manufacture a remote that you would press the buttonon the T_V_ and it would {disfmarker} the remote would beep so if you have lost it {disfmarker}User Interface: It's kinda like what the remote phone used to do .Project Manager: Mm . Oh , yeah , that's true .UserInterface: You know like go to the base .Project Manager: We could definitely include that if we wanted to .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: If it's within our price . Okay . Are we ready for our last presentation ,Amber ?Industrial Designer: Yeah , I'm just trying to move it .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: 'Kay . I think it should be there , working design .User Interface: Working design .Project Manager: There wego .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: 'Kay .Industrial Designer: 'Kay . Uh I didn't get a chance to complete this one , 'cause some of the tools that I was given were frustrating .Project Manager: Oh my bad. {vocalsound}Marketing: Oh that's fine .Industrial Designer: Uh okay , so method method of our design , I think I just start listing th some of the things that we actually need to put into this .User Interface: Help me.Industrial Designer: We need a power source , we're gonna need a smart chip if we're gonna make it multi-functional . Um extra functions will probably need an additional chip . Either that or the smart chip will have tobe extremely smart .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: What exactly is a smart chip ?Industrial Designer: Usually a smart chip is just a chip that's been programmed and designed so that it can complete a fairrange of functions .User Interface: Well , how much extra would the additional chip be ? Is that gonna push us over our production costs ?Industrial Designer: I wouldn't think so , 'cause we could probably get it fromlike , in bulk , from a a newer company . And they tend to sell their chips pretty cheap .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Okay . Ready ?Industrial Designer: Um yep , nothing here .Project Manager: That'sokay .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Um power source , I figured , batteries , 'cause they're easily available . Typically a remote has either two double A_s or four triple A_s , sometimes three . Uh itreally kinda depends on the size of the actual remote itself .User Interface: {gap}Industrial Designer: Um a large on-off button , {vocalsound} demographically we're moving towards an older generation of people , so alarge on-off button would probably be good .User Interface: {vocalsound} {gap}Project Manager: Hmm .Industrial Designer: Selection button for various entertainment devices , so you want something that will permityou to select the D_V_D_ player or the T_V_ or the stereo system . Um smart chip that perverts {disfmarker} uh that permits , sorry , universal application again , something that'll allow us to skip over betweendevices , and that's kinda it .Project Manager: {gap}Industrial Designer: Uh this is my fifty second design .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Power source over here . We're gonna have a switchobviously between the power source and the rest of it , and you're gonna need the switch . Um extra bulb could just be for flashiness , um subcomponent which would be like a way of diverting the power to differentparts of the the device . Um the chip and of course the infra-red bulb , so it can communicate with the various devices that it needs to talk to .Marketing: So what exactly we are looking at , is this like the front of theremote ?Industrial Designer: This is just like a rough schematic .Project Manager: So this would be the front ?Industrial Designer: So this is the internal workings .Project Manager: So the red would be the front of theremote though , right ?Marketing: Oh okay .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Yeah , that's gonna be what's communicating with the T_V_ , but the other bulb , I think , is good to just toindicate , I'm doing something , it's sort of like a reassurance .Project Manager: The l {vocalsound} the light up kind of {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah , so you don't have to stare at that infra-red ,Marketing:Like that we know the battery's working .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: 'cause you know when the battery starts dying in your remote currently , you have to actually stare at that bulb and go , okay ,when I push this button , is it working ?Project Manager: Hmm . It'd probably be lighting up the key too ,Marketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: We can skip that whole thing .Project Manager: right ?Industrial Designer:Yep .Project Manager: 'Kay .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: So you can put it in the dark . {vocalsound}Project Manager: The buttons .Marketing: Yeah , and that's good .Project Manager:Okay .Marketing: We should make it glow in the dark . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah , definitely . 'Kay nex R Ready ?Industrial Designer: Yeah , that's it .Project Manager: 'Kay , any p 'Kay ?User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: Mm 'kay .Project Manager: Anything you wanna add for personal preferences though , you f you said already that we needed a large on-off button , you think . Anything else ?IndustrialDesigner: I think that that's a good idea , because you know that's one of the most important buttons .User Interface: Just {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Well , should it be larger buttons ingeneral , you know like uh the examples that I had , they were swi quite small . So should we try and go for something that has l larger buttons ?Marketing: I think we should . Like I think that would be in a as in{disfmarker} like in {disfmarker} for the design , sorry , um . I think we should definitely go with buttons that don't look like a normal remote , 'cause most remotes have small square buttons ,Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: I think we should do something like maybe bigger and round like bubbles .User Interface: Ovals . Yeah , yeah .Project Manager: Okay . Okay , let's talk about all of our {disfmarker} We'll come to decisionlater about all the components that we need to include , let's um wrap up this one , and {vocalsound} I'm gonna go back to my PowerPoint , 'cause we need to discuss the new project requirements which you might'vealready seen flashed up on the screen a bit earlier . {vocalsound} Wait , come back . Alright . Sorry , let's go through this . Alright . Here we go . New product requirements . First it's only going to be a T_V_ remote .We're trying not to over-complicate things . So no D_V_D_ , no TiVo , no stereo .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay .Project Manager: It's not gonna be multi-functional .User Interface: {gap}Project Manager: Hey. And we th need to promote our company more , so we need to somehow include our colour and our company slogan on the remote . We're trying to get our name out there in the world . Okay .User Interface:{gap}Project Manager: And you know what teletext is ?User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: {gap} in States we don't have it , but um it's like they just have this channel where just has news and weather , kind ofsports ,User Interface: I know .Marketing: What is it ?User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: it's very um bland looking , it's just text on the screen ,User Interface: Yeah ,Project Manager: not even{disfmarker}User Interface: it's like black , black and white kind of {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah , just black with just text .Marketing: Like running along the bottom ?Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer:You can also get the kind of the T_V_ guide so {disfmarker}User Interface: It'll give you the sports .Marketing: Wait , is it like the Weather Channel where it's got like the ticker running on the bottom or something?Project Manager: Kind of .User Interface: Except the entire screen .Project Manager: Yeah it's the whole screen .Industrial Designer: It's the entire screen is just running information at random .Project Manager: Soanyway {disfmarker}User Interface: You can pick sports , you can pick the news , you entertainment ,Industrial Designer: Seemingly .User Interface: you know it's like {disfmarker}Project Manager: Right .Marketing:So it's like a separate channel from like what you're watching ?Project Manager: Right . But it's becoming out-dated now , because of the Internet .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Nobody needs to go to theteletext channel to check the news , {vocalsound} and we have twenty four hour news channels now too , so {disfmarker} Those are our new product requirements . Alright . Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Okay.Marketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: So , do we have to include the company colour within that ?Project Manager: Yes . It's part of the logo . Okay .User Interface: Company colour being yellow . {vocalsound}ProjectManager: What we're going to do right now is come to some decisions , definitive that we can all agree on , about um the target group and the functions and just definite things that we need to do and then we'll closeup the meeting . So . Alright . {gap} Whatever . Okay . So our target group is {disfmarker} You mentioned um older people ? Would it just be universal for everyone , you think ?User Interface: Mm-hmm .ProjectManager: Because I think even if something has large buttons , as long as they are not childishly large , like even technically {disfmarker}User Interface: It's gonna make it nicer . Yeah .Project Manager:non-technically challenged people are gonna use it . I mean they want something user-friendly , so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm well , even if we kept the regular standard size of remote , if we reduced thebuttons down to the ones that people are saying that they use the most often and a couple extra ,Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: 'cause they're saying they only use ten per cent of them ,Project Manager:"}
{"doc_id":"doc_62","qid":"","text":"Lynne Neagle AM: Good morning, everyone, and welcome to today's meeting of the Children, Young People and Education Committee. We've received no apologies for absence. Can I ask Members whether there areany declarations of interest, please?Darren Millar AM: Yes, I have a declaration of interest, Chair. I understand that my daughter features in one of the videos that is going to be used to contribute evidence to thisinquiry. And, in addition, I'm a governor of one of the schools that features in the video.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you, Darren. So, item 2, then, today is our first session on the provision of textbooks and learningresources for pupils, which is a video of interviews with young people and teachers. The committee team has been out to take video evidence around Wales, and we're now going to watch the results of that on thescreen. Okay. Well, I'm sure that the committee would want me to place on record our thanks to the young people and the teachers who took part in that very helpful and informative video. We'll move on now then toour evidence session, and I'm very pleased to welcome Gareth Pierce, chief executive of the WJEC, Mike Ebbsworth, assistant director educational support, WJEC, Philip Blaker, chief executive of Qualifications Wales,and Emyr George, associate director general qualifications at Qualifications Wales. So, thank you all of you for attending and thank you for the papers that you provided in advance as well. If you're happy, we'll gostraight into questions now, and if I can just start by asking you to outline what you see as your role in ensuring that students and teachers in Wales have the resources that they need to pass general qualifications andwhat you think the role of commercial publishers and Welsh Government is.Philip Blaker: Shall I start? So, Qualifications Wales is the regulator of the awarding bodies, so we regulate awarding bodies. Our powers arestructured around the regulating of awarding bodies. We don't regulate commercial publishers nor the provision of textbooks within that. In regulating the awarding body, our primary focus is also on the design of thequalifications and then the delivery of the assessment. So, it's much more around the assessment side than teaching resources. That said, when we are going through the design of the qualifications, we go through anapproval process, so we develop approval criteria and we ask WJEC to submit their specifications against those approval criteria and sample assessment materials as well. So, our focus is very much on making sure thatteachers are able, through the sample assessment materials and the specifications, to have a good understanding of what is going to be expected of them in the examinations and of their pupils in the examinations. So,that's setting out the knowledge, skills and understandings that will be assessed by WJEC when those exams are sat. We have in the past pulled together groups of people to look at issues like resources. So, during thelast round of approvals, we pulled together interested parties in Welsh Government, regional consortia and WJEC to look at resources that would be available with a view to facilitating the discussion about who would bebest placed to fill the gaps where there may be perceived to be gaps in resources. Our other primary role is in maintaining standards. So, as the regulator of qualifications, what we want to do is we want to make thatthe awards of qualifications—so, the grades that people get—are fair. One of the things we do is set out the way in which the awarding bodies will set grades—so, the awarding process, the methods that will beused—and then we monitor WJEC's award of grades against those processes. During a period of change, we prescribe the use of comparable outcomes as the primary approach, largely because comparable outcomesare designed for circumstances like this, where there's a change in a specification particularly, because there are any number of reasons, including resources, why performance may be different from one year to thenext, but comparable outcomes is there to ensure that, all things being equal, if the cohorts have the same ability, the same grade should be awarded from one year to the next. We do recognise that there have beendelays in textbooks. Much of that has been related to the timelines that we've all had to deliver new specifications against, which have been far from ideal for everybody involved. We think that particularly our rolemoving forward will be looking at the timelines for reforms that will be necessary for the new curriculum to make sure that this situation isn't repeated and that there is sufficient time in future reforms to allow forgreater system readiness. In terms of the roles of others, Welsh Government have a role at the moment in terms of grant funding of translation of materials into Welsh medium. And there is, through the common modelat the moment—and this is a model that is common between England and Wales—a reliance on commercial publishers to provide textbooks. Now, that's something that probably needs to be looked at in the future interms of potential different models for how that might be achieved and also, potentially, around a paradigm shift in what's expected of those materials. So, I think that sets out Qualification Wales's position inparticular.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Gareth.Gareth Pierce: Thank you very much. The WJEC does provide what's required in a regulatory sense, and there are two things there—the specification, which tends to bevery comprehensive in providing guidance in terms of drawing up a programme of teaching, and also exemplar assessments, which include marking, and those go to the regulator before they are published. So, thosesamples go to the regulator. The WJEC also do invest a great deal in resources that we produce digitally in both languages simultaneously. Each new course has substantial teaching guidance, which includes a great dealof useful information for teachers and pupils. And we run a professional development programme for teachers that is free of charge when courses are new, and then annually there is some charge for those events. Theyare face-to-face events, or, increasingly, they are webinars. The WJEC also encourages publishers to take an interest in providing textbooks. We don't have a commercial agreement with publishers. Indeed, theregulations as they stand in Wales, Northern Ireland and England preclude examination bodies from having commercial links with providers of textbooks, but that is something that emerges from the three-nation regimethat existed in terms of qualifications. So, that is one point that we noted as something that needs to be considered for Wales as we move forward, whether it would be possible—. As we are not talking aboutexamination boards competing with each other in Wales for GCSE and A-levels, in passing, that is something that I would want to suggest may deserve review. We encourage publishers to take an interest. At themoment, these tend to be England-based—Hodder Education and Illuminate Education, for example—and then the Welsh Government does provide funding to the WJEC to support the process of providingWelsh-language versions for those textbooks. So, we use that funding to provide editorial support to the process, and also to pay for translation costs, and we give significant guidance in terms of terminology. We havea language services team including excellent editors and translators within the WJEC, and we work closely with external translators too, and we use translation technology increasingly, which facilitates a great manythings. Beyond that, I think the WJEC does see the need for flexibility, particularly when difficulties arise, and you heard there of some of the methods used by Mike and others to get digital resources available earlierthan the print versions. And I should also note perhaps that, as the WJEC is very much involved with stakeholders, we feel that we do have a contribution to make in terms of ideas for the future.Lynne Neagle AM:Thank you. We heard in the video that teachers are spending a lot of their time actually translating materials. What is your view on that as a good use of teachers' time in Wales?Gareth Pierce: I think the question oftranslation is an interesting one. There was talk about pupils translating and teachers translating. I think perhaps we need to understand what causes the need for that because, as I mentioned earlier, there are somany resources available digitally in both languages at the same time. Perhaps an interesting question is: is that source useful for teachers, being able to draw resources from two sources? Another interesting question,I think, is—. The Welsh language, of course, is a language that is used in an educational context, but we are in a big world that's an English language world. I'm very aware that many of the websites we refer to in ourresources and many of the case studies, as was mentioned in that video—they are available in English only. Therefore, I think another interesting question is: can we discover what those additional resources are thatare worth translating? And, certainly, it would be very unfortunate if there were a dozen Welsh-medium schools, for example, translating material from the same website independently of each other. If there are a fewwebsites, or a few case studies, in this big external digital world that are worth translating, shouldn't we able to source those early? Because I don't think it's a good use of teachers' time. But I also think that the use ofboth languages is an interesting one. What is the vision in terms of teaching in a Welsh-medium class, in particular, perhaps, in the A-level classes? I'm sure that some teachers feel that there is a way ofenriching the teaching by referring to terms in both languages, as well as explaining those terms in their own language. But the impression I got from the video was that there was quite a lot of mechanical translatinghappening, and perhaps there is a need to understand more of the context.Lynne Neagle AM: Llyr on this.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Just to pick up on your point on the additional materials, whose role would it be to asses thisor to take that overview, and then to respond to the demand?Gareth Pierce: Mike, in the WJEC, has conversations about resources in the team he's part of.Mike Ebbsworth: Yes. That is extremely important—to identify,as Gareth has just said, those materials that need to be translated, and not everything needs to. We've made a lot of use recently of speaking with teachers and the consortia, and ensuring then that we are focusing onthose things that need that attention.Llyr Gruffydd AM: But would you—? The question I'm asking is: would you still see that as a core part of your work, although it's not necessarily essential in terms of the provisionthat you're required to provide?Gareth Pierce: Yes, we invest substantially from the WJEC budget into digital resources. So, through the types of conversations that Mike mentioned, in terms of identifying needs,deciding on priorities with teachers in individual subject areas, that can provide very useful information for us in terms of prioritisation. Of course, the digital packages that we create are already based onconversations with teachers.Llyr Gruffydd AM: So, it's already happening to a certain extent.Gareth Pierce: Well, yes, but we could always go a step further.Llyr Gruffydd AM: And do we need further resources forthat?Gareth Pierce: Well, it's an interesting question. The WJEC is doing as much as we can—Llyr Gruffydd AM: Why isn't it happening to the extent that it needs to happen, then?Gareth Pierce: One can always do more,of course. The WJEC is trying to use its budget prudently, and most of our funding comes from payments made by schools and colleges in terms of taking assessments. So, we do have a budget, but it's not a bottomlesspit. So, we do need to make choices within the substantial budget we have in terms of the work that Mike is undertaking.Mike Ebbsworth: There is a need to be careful as well in identifying resources and needs, and thatthose are suited towards the requirements. Quite often a teacher—and I've been a teacher myself—has this idea that there is a need to have everything. But, certainly, that's not always the case. Quite often, the focusis on different things. There has been a move towards different means of assessment over recent years, and we've moved our resources towards that to meet the needs of teachers on how to undertake that sort ofassessment.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Okay. Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Did you want to come in on any of this?Philip Blaker: I'm just going to say one thing. Teachers will want to be creative in the use of resources, and, indoing that, they'll potentially want to adapt resources from either language. I think one of the things that we would be quite keen to try and establish moving forward is what is the common core that should by defaultbe available bilingually, and then what sits around that that would be for schools to use creatively and adapt. And what I wouldn't want to see is a default position where all materials were bilingual—a wide range ofresources that might be created from all sorts of diverse, different channels—because that may inhibit the creation of some of those materials that may be more creative, which could then be used by teachers as theysee appropriate. But I think it is reasonable to expect for that core, common body of knowledge to be available bilingually by default, and for teachers not to have to spend time translating that.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay.Thank you. A final question from me, then. The £500,000 funding for Welsh-medium educational resource that's in the budget for 2018-19—are you able to share any information with the committee as to how that'sgoing to be spent?Gareth Pierce: Tthe WJEC has some information in terms of that budget. It is a Welsh Government budget, and they have annual discussions with us as to what resources we are likely to be workingon along with publishers, and where we would like to make a claim against that grant to pay for the editorial and translation costs that we will have incurred. Now, there have been conversations recently about possiblesupport from that grant for some research work into the use of various materials and resources, and also, although this would be a very small part, a contribution towards seminars for publishers. But that isn't a fullpicture of the £500,000; I think you would have to ask the Welsh Government about the exact allocation of that total fund. But there may be some flexibility. We've just started this financial year; I'm sure there is someflexibility in their thinking in terms of the use of some of this resource. Do you want to add anything, Mike?Mike Ebbsworth: Certainly. We have contributed a list of publications, for example, that are ongoing, andthey're aware of that, and a percentage of that funding then will go towards ensuring that those are there through the medium of Welsh.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Darren Millar.Darren Millar AM: This is a hugemess, isn't it? It's a huge mess, which is causing lots of pressure and extra work for teachers, lots of pressure and extra work for learners, and is affecting the well-being of students, at a time when they need to bementally fit, in order to go through the general stress that learners face when they have exams coming up. We know that the problems are not confined to Welsh-medium resources; they're also being experienced inEnglish language resources as well, particularly in terms of the availability of textbooks. You've both mentioned—both of your organisations have mentioned that there needs to be some sort of common core ofresources available for learners and teachers, and I would agree with you on that front. But isn't a textbook a pretty basic element of anybody's toolkit for supporting a child getting through the information that theyneed to learn, and swot up on, in advance of exams?Gareth Pierce: I think that the evidence is that different learners see their requirements differently. And I agree that a textbook is part of the picture that should beavailable. But I think the evidence also shows that not every young person will use them; perhaps the teacher uses them. There is an emphasis, for example, from one pupil there, on that traditional model of revision,namely class notes and his own revision notes, but that he personally also wanted a textbook. So, certainly, the content of a textbook is going to be important, and that that's available in some form or other. It was veryinteresting to know, for example, that when he was describing the traditional model of revision, he felt that he'd had quite a lot of the content of the textbook through the classroom notes. Much of that digital content, ofcourse, corresponds to the content areas of a textbook, but it's just in a different form. But, in general, there should be a textbook. And some of our frustration as well is that the timetables of some individual publishersdon't always get us to the point where there is a textbook available in time. That doesn't happen so often in English medium, but we know about that gap in time in the Welsh provision.Darren Millar AM: Well, it'shappened fairly regularly in the English-medium textbook world, hasn't it? My daughter—she featured in that video—has got her RS qualifications coming up, and she only had a textbook over the Easter period. I mean,it's completely unacceptable. And many others in that video are also being affected. You mentioned digital resources; not everybody's got access to digital resources in their own homes, even, in Wales. So, aren't wegiving a significant disadvantage to those learners who might need the traditional 'swotting up from a textbook' method of revision and benefit from that?Mike Ebbsworth: We do ensure that those digital resourcesinclude things that the teachers can also print. Most of these are resources for teachers so that the teachers can adapt them for their own use, to suit the learners who are in front of them at any given time.But certainly there are materials there. If there are activities, then those activities can be printed off and handed to pupils so that they can take them home. So, I would be sceptical about that comment. We are thinkingof the totality, ultimately.Gareth Pierce: I think you're right that the availability of technology is an important part of this big picture. The young people talk about websites and blogs, and we're talking about digitalresources, so being able to reach those resources, I think, is vital in Wales. It's interesting to note two contradictory remarks from the teaching associations in the letters. One praises what's available digitally, whereasanother teaching organisation sees this as more work for teachers. As Mike said, we've created those resources that can be adapted. One teaching organisation says that it just creates more work, whileanother organisation says that the digital resource is something that's very valuable. Of course, the headteacher at the end was praising the fact that, in a situation of crisis or unacceptable timetables, we havesucceeded in creating some resources that will be in the textbook later, but available digitally at an early stage. But I agree with your core comment that technology is vital, and access to that, and also the content of atextbook in some form is vital as well.Darren Millar AM: Mr Blaker, you would agree that a textbook should be an essential core piece of the resource pack available for each qualification.Philip Blaker: I think we wouldn'twant to underplay the desirability of textbooks, recognising that different learners have different learning styles and may look to different resources. I think what I'd like to raise is a wider concern about textbooks intheir current model, which is very much around the fact that every time there's a change in a specification, there's a new textbook, which is designed around that specification and is endorsed by an awarding body,which is a nice model for a publisher, because every time there's a change, there's an opportunity for a new textbook. There are two concerns that I'd like to raise on that. First, the focus on teaching and learning.Ofsted and also Estyn have raised concerns about the focus in teaching on teaching to the test as a common concern in both nations. I have a concern that having a textbook that is endorsed by the awarding body andis designed specifically around that specification may lead to some of that tendency. And also, there's the sustainability of the model. We know that we're about to go into another round of reforms associated with thecurriculum change. That's going to lead to another round of textbooks that may need to be focused on qualifications. I think I'd much rather see that textbooks are seen as a curriculum resource that are broader than,perhaps, the model of endorsement and the current model of publication suggest.Darren Millar AM: So, you don't think that a textbook for each subject should be a core resource for pupils who are learning in advance"}
{"doc_id":"doc_63","qid":"","text":"User Interface: Hi .Industrial Designer: Hi .Project Manager: Hello .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Oh .Project Manager: Good morning .User Interface: Good morning .Industrial Designer: Morning .Marketing:Good morning .Project Manager: Uh before I start with the with the meeting I have a few things to tell you about the the setting we're in , uh because we're uh being watched by uh Big Brother . So um{disfmarker}Marketing: By Big Brother ?Project Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound} Yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: This uh {disfmarker} These are cameras , so are these . Thisthing uh that looks like a pie ,Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: are actually all microphones .Marketing: Yeah . Okay .Project Manager: So you must be careful with uh with uh all this . And uh as I can see you uhyou have placed your laptops uh exactly on the place where it must be . And that has to do with the camera settings , so we don't have our uh laptops in front of the cameras .Marketing: Of our faces .Project Manager:And {disfmarker} Indeed . So they can see our faces .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Welcome at the kick-off meeting . My name is uh DannyWolfs . {vocalsound} Uh this is the agenda for today . Uh first a little opening . Uh I will introduce myself , uh and uh I think it's very uh good to introduce uh yourself . Uh then uh a little bit of acquaintance ,acquaintance to uh to to ourselves . So uh we get to know each other . Uh that will be done uh with a tool training from the he these two uh smart boards . Then the project plan . What we're going to do , and how we'regoing to do it . Uh and discussion about that and a little closing at the end . {vocalsound} Okay uh , my name is uh Danny Wolfs . I'm the Project Manager . What's your name ?User Interface: I'm Juergen Toffs . I'm theUser Interface Designer .Project Manager: User interface , okay .Industrial Designer: Hi , my name's uh {gap} . I'm the Industrial Designer .Project Manager: Industrial , yes .Marketing: I'm uh Tim {gap} . Um myfunction is the Marketing Expert .Project Manager: Okay , thank you . First a little about the project aim . Uh the the the aim is to make a new remote control . Uh maybe you have read uh read the website . It's a veryuh , yeah , very uh ambitious uh company . They uh they wanna do something else . I w Uh there must be a new remote control . Uh first of all uh it must be original , uh and trendy . That's two things really uh close toeach other . But at the same time uh user-friendly . And they have uh {disfmarker} Yeah , that's uh very important uh for them . Uh there are three stages . There is a functional design . So uh what are we going uh touh to do ? What are we going to uh uh make f uh kind of functions in the remote ? And why are we going to do it ? Then the conceptual design . How are going to do it ? {vocalsound} And that's uh really global . Uhbecause at the detailed design , how , part two , uh we go uh to dig in uh really about how the the te the technical of {disfmarker} If it's uh it's possible technical-wise .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uheach stage is uh {vocalsound} uh is broken up in two uh two stages , individual work and a meeting . So it's uh it's very straightforward . {vocalsound} Okay , the tool training . We have two smart boards .{vocalsound} This one is for the presentations , the PowerPoint presentations or the Word presentation of whatever you uh you had . Uh and this is uh only for uh drawing . So uh we uh must let it uh stand on this uhthis programme . {vocalsound} This is called a smart boardMarketing: {vocalsound} Speaks for itself .Project Manager: thing uh {disfmarker} Yeah , it speaks for itself . Um and as you uh may have heard , thedocuments in the shared folder uh can be uh showed on this screen . Not in y the the My Documents . So if you wanna show something , put it in the shared folder . {vocalsound} Uh {disfmarker} This uh is {gap} verystraightforward , with the save , the print , the undo , the blank , the select , the pen . Well , I don't uh gonna explain it all ,Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: because I think you know uh how it works . Um wemust not forget uh everything we draw on here , uh all must be saved . We we may not delete anything . So uh if you have uh drawn something , save it . Never delete it . That's a very important uh thing .Marketing:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay . Uh little uh little {vocalsound} kinda exercise to uh know each other .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} At uh the white boardon the left . Every uh every one of us uh must draw our favourite animal ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} and uh tell uh tell us why we uh had uh chosen that animal . Uh important isthat we use different colours , {vocalsound} and uh different pen widths . Widths . Widths .Marketing: I have a question .Project Manager: Yes ?Marketing: Um this exercise , um did the company board tell you to do it,Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: or uh did you just make it up yourself ?Project Manager: No no no . It's uh it's uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker} I I I must do it .Marketing: It's part ofthe introduction ,Project Manager: Yeah , yeah , yeah . 'Cause we uh really don't know each other ,Marketing: okay .Project Manager: and uh it's kinda new . So getting used to each other , we can uh have a little funthen , before we uh dig in really to the hard stuff .Marketing: Okay . {vocalsound}Project Manager: That kind of thing . Would you start with drawing your uh favourite animal ?Marketing: Um , yeah . I don't know reallyhow it works . But maybe you can show us first ?Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay , okay . Yeah , okay . Drawing goes with uh this thing . Do not touch your hand on uh this little uh thingy here . That's uh important.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So hold it uh like this .User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: You g you get electrocuted or {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah , kinda .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So , {vocalsound} um {disfmarker} You must p p uh push a little uh {disfmarker} Good . Because {disfmarker} And uh wait uhwait a few seconds . It's not uh fully real-time , so uh watch it .User Interface: Ach . {gap}Project Manager: Oh yeah . Well I'm gonna paint in the red .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh .User Interface:Ooph .Project Manager: That's the background colour . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well , undo . Um {disfmarker} The pen ? No . One minute please .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah , that's the one . Well , five . Okay . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} My favourite animal huh ?IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}Marketing: It's like Pictionary ? {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah , you can guess what it is .Marketing: The the one who says it first {vocalsound} gets araise .Project Manager: {vocalsound} May uh paint uh next .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: It's apork ? {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} No , it's not an orc . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: You don't see it uh at the ears ?Marketing: Mm yeah , I have it at home .{vocalsound}Project Manager: You have an orc at home ?User Interface: Very artistic .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Thank you .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So it's a cat .{vocalsound}Marketing: What's it called ?Project Manager: Simba . 'Cause uh we have a cat at homeMarketing: Ah .Project Manager: and he's called Simba . 'Cause he looks like the uh the the lion from The Lion King.User Interface: Okay . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Miniature size ?Project Manager: So we uh found it kinda cool to uh name it after a lion .Marketing: Okay .{vocalsound}Project Manager: He's happy with us , so uh he's smiling .User Interface: Wow . He does have body uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Huh .Project Manager: No , only the face . Because we have we havetwen twenty five minutes . So we uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay . We have to speed up .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Remember you use uh different colours , and different pen widths .Project Manager: Yeah .Okay , who wants to go next ?Marketing: I {disfmarker} Okay .Project Manager: Yeah ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So choose a colour , choose a pen width and draw a {disfmarker}UserInterface: You don't have to change the colour and the pen width during uh the drawing .Marketing: Save it .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Or {disfmarker}Marketing: You have to save it .Project Manager:Save it , okay .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: I've done it . New ? 'Kay .User Interface: You have to draw uh push hard on the pen or uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm uh {disfmarker} Not really .ProjectManager: Kind of firm touch .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: That one .User Interface: Oh . Uh hmm .Marketing: Yeah ? Okay . Open . Which one is it ? Smart board ?Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface:Okay .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay . And now ? Okay . Okay , thanks . 'Kay , I've speed up . 'Kay , that's fine . Line width .Industrial Designer: By the way , why was your cat uh red ?ProjectManager: Because uh my cat is red uh at home .User Interface: Oh .Industrial Designer: Oh , okay . {vocalsound}Project Manager: And I have red hair , so uh must be red .User Interface: It's a very bloody cat.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Oh , yeah , sure .User Interface: It's a frog . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: No , it's a turtle . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Uh it's an apple . {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} It's not an apple .Industrial Designer: Must be a dog . {vocalsound}User Interface: A dog ? {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Hmm . Colour .{vocalsound} Something like this . Smaller .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Huh ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Oh , it is a turtle .Project Manager: It is a turtle . Why a turtle ? Why ?Tim ?Marketing: Um {disfmarker} 'Cause I liked Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles .Project Manager: {vocalsound} You watched it a lot ?User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound} Uh ?Project Manager: You watched it a lot ?User Interface: It's uh inside its shell . You'll be uh finished sooner .Marketing: No , it's uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's a scared turtle .Marketing: No no .{vocalsound} It's coming up . Mm . Uh .User Interface: Wow .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay , Tim . Thank you .{vocalsound}Marketing: Something like this . {vocalsound} Okay , you know {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Very artistic .Project Manager: Jurgen , you want togo next ?User Interface: Yes {gap} . Okay . Wha Thank you .Marketing: Yeah ? Here you go .User Interface: Yeah . Um {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: How did itwork ?Project Manager: Format ? And then you have the the current colour ,User Interface: Performance ?Project Manager: you can change . So no red or green .User Interface: And a pen ?Project Manager: And uh lineuh width . I had five .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Tim had {disfmarker} Uh Tim , what kinda line width did you have ?User Interface: Um {disfmarker}Marketing: Uh the big lines were like nine .ProjectManager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay . It's a dog .User Interface: Well , very good . {vocalsound} I just uh thought I'd pick the easiest one .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Uh .Project Manager: Okay . Why a dog ? You have a dog at home ?User Interface: Well , we had a dog , a few years ago .Project Manager: Had a dog ?Marketing: Uh , it's pProject Manager: Yeah ?User Interface: Andand it , {gap} yeah , when it died we didn't get a new one or something .Project Manager: Ah .User Interface: But uh {disfmarker}Marketing: It's pretty good uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}ProjectManager: You have an artistic uh inner middle .Marketing: {gap} {vocalsound} An artist .Project Manager: {gap} {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh a Graphical User Designer , so {disfmarker}Project Manager:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Hmm .User Interface: Hey .Marketing: Think you uh picked the wrong uh function . Wrong job .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Oh .Marketing:{vocalsound}User Interface: No . Can work together . Ah colour .Project Manager: So I think you can see it's real uh really a easy programme to use . Not difficult at all .Marketing: WhaUser Interface: {vocalsound}Well ,Project Manager: Okay ,User Interface: it's okay {gap} .Project Manager: thank you . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} That's enough ,User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: thanks . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Janus ? The last one ?Industrial Designer: Yeah , sure .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Uh thanks .Marketing: I wonder .Project Manager: Yeah. After a cat , a turtle and a dog .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I think he's gonna draw an elephant . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Ifigure I should do something like that ,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: but I'm gonna do something much more difficult .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh-oh .User Interface: Uh-oh . Oh ,he is the artistic {gap} design .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: I'm gonna design a remote uh {vocalsound} remote control animal . {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound} Remote control animal .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Exactly . Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Oh . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing:Sorry .User Interface: Well with the interface , it might be easier to ha to draw here and display there uh .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: {gap}Marketing: That that might be easier . But at the other hand , uh a penlike that is easy to hold in your hand , and {disfmarker}Project Manager: No .Marketing: I think it's easier to draw .Project Manager: Better to draw with a with {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah . With a pen than with amouse mouse .User Interface: Than on the , with {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah , I m I mean like uh like on here , drawing drawing uh . And then displaying on screen , but{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mouth . Oh , okay . Yeah . W with this paper it's too mu too expensive . {vocalsound}Project Manager: But what is he uh ?User Interface: Too expensive , yeah.Project Manager: Is it a rabbit ?Industrial Designer: Yes . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Do you have a rabbit at home ?Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: No .Marketing: It's a rabbit with uh broken legs ?{vocalsound}User Interface: A green rabbit .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} No . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Is it a white rabbit f It's the white rabbit from The Matrix .Industrial Designer: Yeah , exactly .{vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay , then yeah .User Interface: There , the g white green rabbit .Industrial Designer: So .User Interface: {vocalsound} He's a little bit stoned there . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound} {vocalsound} Uh I figured this is a pretty b good impression of a rabbit .Marketing: Yeah . It will do .Industrial Designer: Uh uh {disfmarker} Uh well .Project Manager: Okay . Finishing touch and thenwe're going further .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Project Manager ? Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah ?Industrial Designer: Where does the pen go ? Just uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Have you been uhcounting the time ?Project Manager: Yeah , a little . {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay . Let's go on then .Project Manager: Well , I think the dog is the the most uh artistic .Industrial Designer: Uh I figured the rabbit wasactually the most uh impressive . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Don't choose for youself .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Oh , sorry . {vocalsound}Project Manager: That's selfish . Okay ,now we're gonna dig into the to the serious stuff .Marketing: It's pretty abstract .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh the selling price for the remote will be uh twenty five Euro , and the production cost uh may not bemore than uh twenty and a half Euro . So uh from my point of view , I don't think it's uh gonna be very uh very high tech , high definition , uh ultra modern uh kinda remote , for twelve uh fift uh twelve and a half Euro.Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh the profit we must make with uh the new remote is uh fifty million Euro . So that's a lot . We have to sell uh a lot of uh {disfmarker}UserInterface: Yeah , how much is it ?Marketing: Like how much ?User Interface: Hundred million uh remotes or something ?Project Manager: Uh I think uh w when the selling price is twenty five , uh uh you got two million, two million remotes .User Interface: Oh yeah .Industrial Designer: Twenty million . Two million , oh yeah , two million . Yeah .Project Manager: But our marketing range is uh , market range is international . So wehave uh virtually the whole world we can sell uh we can sell our r remotes to . At least that uh countries which have uh a television .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Um {disfmarker} So now it's time uh for us to uhgoing uh to discuss a little uh things . You can think about uh experience with a remote control uh yourself , at home . What you think might be uh a useful uh new feature . What uh what can distinguish our new trendyremote control from all the others . Um so uh let's uh let's uh discuss a little . I'm gonna join you at the table . {vocalsound} Well what what's the most uh important thing at a remote control ?User Interface: Um well Ithink the most important thing of a remote control is that you can switch channels . And my opinion is you should keep it as basic as possible . Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay . So not a not a remote control whouh uh which can uh can be used for television and a D_V_D_ and radio and {disfmarker} Or just only {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah . I think so . Uh but I have some points . Can I show them on the on the big screen ?Maybe ?Project Manager: If you have them on uh {disfmarker} I can uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah . Yeah , I can find {disfmarker} Uh .Project Manager: Okay . Oh , in case you want it {disfmarker} This is a deadkind of fly . Between the the the , yeah , the the uh {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Screen ?Project Manager: Yeah , be The screens .Marketing: Okay .User Interface: Is it possible to open pendrawings in this uh on this screen ?Project Manager: {vocalsound} No no no . Only {disfmarker} All the drawings go there , at the left uh {disfmarker} {gap}User Interface: Uh but um which {disfmarker} The ones wemade on the {disfmarker}Project Manager: Oh , that pen drawings . Uh no , I think uh when it is uh in Word and you have saved it in the Shared Documents folder , you can show it there .User Interface: Oh , only inWord ,Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: okay .Marketing: Okay , I have some uh points from marketing point of view .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Um just the standard thing li things like uh intuitive , uhsmall , fairly cheap . Uh it's pretty cheap , twenty five Euros . Uh brand independent . Um I think , it doesn't have to matter uh which brand your T_V_ or other thing is . Um {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah . Okay .Five minutes .Marketing: Five minutes ?Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Okay , I'll wrap it up quickly . Um I personally think it has to be multi-purpose .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Uh most of the remote c uhremote controls are uh just for one purpose .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: And uh by making it multi-purpose , it uh has a new feature , adds a new feature to the market , and distinguish from uh from currentproducts .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Um maybe some other technology than infrared . Uh I rather find it very annoying um , like when someone is standing in front of the T_V_ then you can't switch it . Um"}
{"doc_id":"doc_64","qid":"","text":"Marketing: {gap}Project Manager: {gap} {vocalsound}Marketing: I dunno . {vocalsound} Throwing away my toothpick .User Interface: Hi there .Project Manager: Yo . Ow .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}ProjectManager: {gap} {vocalsound}Marketing: 'Kay .Project Manager: Uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Nice user interface .Project Manager: Yeah . What the {disfmarker} Uh {disfmarker}Marketing: {gap}Project Manager: Yeahwell , ja well let's just start .Marketing: 'Kay .Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} I've uh made a presentation uh but uh I'll open it on the Smartboard , so we can all see it .Marketing: Right let's see it .ProjectManager: So it's in the project documents because that's what we can find here . Well {gap} . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Very nice . Well this is called the the the kick-off meeting .So uh {vocalsound} I'm the Project Manager , so I had to fill it in ,Marketing: 'Kay .Project Manager: and uh hmm . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Oh sorry . {vocalsound} And {gap} an uh a nice agenda . {vocalsound}Uh we'll do the opening and then uh we'll meet each other , what uh we already do , so , that's not uh very much trouble . I'll I'll show you the the tools we have here , so that we can all use them . Then uh we'll look atthe project plan from uh Real Reaction .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: We'll discuss about our first ideas about the project , and then uh we'll close the meeting , and then we can uh individually uh do ourthings and then uh we'll get back here . So {vocalsound} this the opening we'll uh {disfmarker} We have to uh design a new television remote control . You have heard that uh already I think , so .Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Um we want it to be original , so a nice uh a nice new design . Uh trendy , it's {vocalsound} also for young people , and we have to just uh make it uh modern . And uh friendly , so size does matter .And uh {disfmarker} Well it has to be a have the the right uh the right buttons on the right place , that kin those kind of things .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Other uh {disfmarker} There happen tobe uh three stages . {gap} functional , conceptual , and d detailed design . Um so every time we we'll do some individual work , get meeting , talk about it , uh and then go into the next phase . That's just it .{vocalsound} Um {disfmarker} We have uh these two Smartboards . Um well as I just showed , there's a project management folder , a project document folder on the desktop . It just works exactly the same as acomputer . You just uh click on the on the folder and you open the everything you you put in it with your laptop . So you can uh make uh {vocalsound} Words Excel , everything . Um and the w the r uh the rest uh alsoworks the same so uh when you open a notepad you uh you just get your uh things , you can uh draw . This is a uh well a drawing board . {gap} you have a {disfmarker} these different uh functions on the board . Youcan see them there . So you have a a nice pen , and it's works just like a bal ball pen . {vocalsound} This is just a {gap} . I want to uh {disfmarker} Oh yeah . Of course w {vocalsound} doesn't work any more .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Maybe you should try to write on the on the big white uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yes I will{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Does it ? Yeah . It works .Project Manager: eraser {gap} so .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Wonderful .Project Manager: It's fantas fantastic . We can uh uh well youcan save a file . So if uh we draw we have to save everything . Don't throw anything away .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Uh just we can start a new one , and we just go on , and don't throw anythingaway .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Just uh let them all uh stand here . We can delete , but we don't do that . Um you can here select a pen , you can draw anything you want . It's a bit uh childish youhave to write . It's not as fast as you w you know it , but it does work sometimes .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {gap} .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Wellit's just like a normal uh paint .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So it's gone .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Alright , yep .Project Manager: Well we are designers , so we have to have a a more uha Smartboard . So that's fantastic . Um well this uh speaks for itself . We going to try it . So um we all uh are going to uh draw a nice animal on this board ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: not my idea . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Alright , your favourite animal ? {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yes ouryour favourite . So um I'm to going to have to draw a kangaroo ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: but I'm going d I'm not going to . I'm just uh going to uh well draw a nice uh beastMarketing:{vocalsound} Grizzly bear . {vocalsound}Project Manager: w I dunno what I'm going to design .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh um {vocalsound} doesn't {disfmarker} oh .Industrial Designer: Ihope this was part of the assignment and not uh your uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah , 'kay . Hmm ?Industrial Designer: I hope this was part of the assignment and not uh your personal uh enjoyment.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I just said it's not my ideaMarketing: Yeah .Project Manager: but I am the Project Manager ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: and officially this is my idea .{vocalsound} So {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I I I {vocalsound} I understand . Alright .Marketing: We're kinda losing time , though .Project Manager: what ?Marketing:We're losing time , but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Ah {vocalsound} the first the first meeting is just a bit uh loose , loosen up , a bit uh meeting each otherIndustrial Designer: {gap} so start {disfmarker}Marketing:Alright .Project Manager: {gap} well uh uh nice yeah . {vocalsound} ShIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yep yes .Project Manager: I hope our Industrial Designer does this better because uh this is uh{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Don't uh count on it .Project Manager: No {vocalsound} {vocalsound} so a a few legs .Marketing: Do we have to guess ?Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yes yesMarketing:{vocalsound} A hippo ? {vocalsound}Project Manager: guess . {vocalsound} Well I should make it an hippo now . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I think it's a mouse or arat .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound} No I don't think so .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Oh . Oh I know it .Project Manager: Well what is it , huh ?IndustrialDesigner: It's a hedgehog .Marketing: I don't know how to call it .Project Manager: YeahMarketing: A hedgehog ? {vocalsound}Project Manager: {gap} difficult English word . I didn't knew it myself {gap} .{vocalsound}Marketing: {gap} .Industrial Designer: Well I'm amazed uh about your uh drawing skills . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Our characteristics sum it up . Well it's uh very{vocalsound} uh painfulIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {disfmarker} {vocalsound} those kind of thing . So we can uh just uh {disfmarker}Marketing:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: We're going back and now uh our Industrial Designer can uh draw its uh most favourite animal .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} I am the Industrial Designer .Marketing: Alright . Thank you .Project Manager: Huh .Industrial Designer: Chief , I am the Industrial Designer .Project Manager: Oh uh but this uhmarketing designer .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I think {disfmarker} It's pr it resembles {vocalsound} the animal drawn by {gap} .Marketing:{vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} {gap}Marketing: It's {gap} . {vocalsound}Project Manager: what kind of animal is that then ? {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I think {disfmarker} can I say it?Marketing: Yeah sure .Project Manager: Uh it {gap} . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: It's a rabbit . {vocalsound} Well {disfmarker} Looks very nice , right?Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: It looks amazing .Project Manager: No no no . What are you going to do ? {vocalsound}User Interface: We want to erase it . {vocalsound}Project Manager: No no.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: No no save it and start a new uh {disfmarker} save it and start a new black uh doc {gap} a blank document .Industrial Designer: These are very impor{vocalsound}Marketing: Yes .Industrial Designer: These are very important documents , of course , uh these drawings , uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah well we have to save everythingMarketing: Yes uh right.Project Manager: so now um the next one uh {disfmarker} {gap} and then save it and start an blank document .User Interface: {vocalsound} Thanks .Marketing: You go man .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah .There's also different colours and different uh well pen widths uh the line the the thickness thickness .Marketing: Alright .Project Manager: So um well you should uh try it but uh {disfmarker}Marketing: I should havemade mine a white rabbit . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well y y y you could have but uh {vocalsound} .Industrial Designer: And he deliberately draws a animal we don't know the English word for .Project Manager:It speaks for itself .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} What the {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: It looks like an uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: uh just a duck .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: It looks like that beast from Sesame Street .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Nice . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} {gap} .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: Big bird .{vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Is it a duck ?Marketing: You're standing in front of it ,Industrial Designer: It's it's uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Is it a plane ? {vocalsound}Marketing: I can't see it .Alright , thank you . Yeah it's a bird , but what kind of bird ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: It doesn't draw uh circles uh that easy uh .Industrial Designer: Do we have to uh {disfmarker}Marketing:You have to push harder .Project Manager: Yeah just a bit a bit childish ,User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: a bit {vocalsound} .Industrial Designer: But we have uh {vocalsound} do we have to name the specificspecies of the bird ?Marketing: Release your anger .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Uh no I don't .Industrial Designer: No ?UserInterface: It's just a bird .Project Manager: Well uh save the documentIndustrial Designer: Well wonderful .Project Manager: and then uh {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}ProjectManager: And then a a new blank document for {gap} . {gap} uh will uh choose a new colour and a new pen width so w we can all see it .User Interface: Here you go .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Why do I haveto do the difficult tasks ?Project Manager: No well firstIndustrial Designer: Uh pen {disfmarker}Project Manager: yeah .Industrial Designer: yeah that's {gap} .Project Manager: And then you go to format I think{vocalsound} , and current colour {gap}Industrial Designer: Uh current colour .Project Manager: you choose a new colour . {vocalsound} And a new pen width uh {gap} also format .Industrial Designer: I like uh{disfmarker}User Interface: Mm .Industrial Designer: oh they don't have pink . {vocalsound} Oh b oh {vocalsound} think this is uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's not like in paint . Line width .Industrial Designer:Uh ? Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: And you can choose a nice one .Industrial Designer: Line width .Project Manager: Width width .User Interface: Width .Project Manager: With each other .Industrial Designer: Uh{vocalsound} {vocalsound} fifteen .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Hmm .Industrial Designer: And I can draw ?Project Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound} So . Just a wa that's the way we do {gap}IndustrialDesigner: Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: it's quite easy .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Hmm . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: It'sa pussy cat .Marketing: It's a cat . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh Pussy . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Oh the line width is too thick , but oh well .Project Manager: Well then you change it . And erase things.Industrial Designer: Uh .Project Manager: {vocalsound} What ? {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} It's a pig . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: It smiles nicely .Project Manager:Super pig . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Now {vocalsound} I have to change the line width . {vocalsound} Uh one {vocalsound} {gap} .Project Manager: So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Yeah yeah yeahIndustrialDesigner: These are {gap} whiskers , you know .Project Manager: we know . {vocalsound}Marketing: Right .Industrial Designer: Uh well I think it's obvious right now .Project Manager: Yes alright . It's a cat .{vocalsound}Marketing: No it looks great .Industrial Designer: Miaow .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Well if this isn't obvious {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well well um {disfmarker}Marketing:Just save it . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah save it {vocalsound} and {vocalsound} start a new blank document .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I'll save it {vocalsound} alright uhsave . Uh yeah uh blank .Project Manager: Yep . So that's uh what we're going to use when we uh need it .Industrial Designer: Well I feel comfortable now .Marketing: Oh great .Project Manager: Well {vocalsound} it'sterrific , eh ? {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Thanks for this exercise . I feel totally at ease .Marketing: It's good for group spirit . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah that's it .{vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} It certainly is . {vocalsound}Project Manager: We're one big happy family now . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah something like that .ProjectManager: Well then uh the serious uh stuff . We're we want to sell it at twenty five Euros internationally um so um but we dunno what exactly th i it is in dollars , but uh twenty five Euros . Our profit aim is , worldwide ,fifty million Euros . So I didn't uh exactly uh calculate how much we have to sell .Industrial Designer: So {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} {gap} we want to keep it our costs at twelve and ahalf Euros so , keep uh that in mind when we uh talk about our uh materials an f and stuff , and uh marketing uh research .Industrial Designer: Alright .Marketing: Right .Project Manager: Now then we all uh we can uhsit down and discuss uh what do we think about our current remote controls , first {gap} about design uh about uh aim in the market etcetera ?Marketing: Right .Project Manager: Well uh we c we can sit down uhbecause uh presentation can wait . We can uh take notes {vocalsound} and uh {disfmarker} Well who has uh some uh remarks about the current uh remote controls ? Please ? {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Well I Ididn't have to prepare anything about uh {disfmarker} {gap}Project Manager: No uh I did . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: it's not , it's it's not my task to uh talk about uh experience with current remote controls ,but uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well uh just w we're uh four uh if we if we would just have one then {disfmarker}Marketing: I think it's im it's important to uh look at uh the remote controls of our competitors.Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Get the good points uh try to merge them into one universal remote control .Project Manager: Yeah yeah .Marketing: On our corporate site I saw uh a new D_V_D_ player uh we'regonna produce .Project Manager: Yep . That's alright .Marketing: Maybe it's important to make it compatible with the D_V_D_ playerProject Manager: That would be a nice idea , yes .Marketing: so you can uh use yourtelevision and your D_V_D_ player with the same uh remote control .Project Manager: Yep yep yep .Marketing: Furthermore it's important to make it uh acceptable for the whole world , for different cultures , maybe ,because we want to we want to {gap} well fifty million ?Project Manager: Yes fifty million is our aim to a profit , so .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Yeah yeahUser Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: so a lotof people have to be able to use it .Industrial Designer: No but uh the b the buttons have to uh have to have uh international recognisable buttons and uhMarketing: So {disfmarker}User Interface: Easy to learn.Marketing: Yeah . Yeah that's right .Project Manager: Yes .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: and numbers and uh that every culture in uh , yeah , people in every country can recognise .User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: I'll make uh notes and then uh maybe uh {disfmarker} well I'll put it in the project uh folder when I'm done uh just now .Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: I also think we should not add too manybuttons .Industrial Designer: Alright .Marketing: Right .Project Manager: No that's right .User Interface: Modern day uh remotes have {vocalsound} too much buttons I think .Project Manager: Y y you don't use uh thehalf of them that's that's {gap}User Interface: Precisely .Project Manager: culture uh international .Marketing: Maybe we could make one button to switch between D_V_D_ player and T_V_User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: and make the other buttons uh multi-functional or something .Project Manager: Yes .User Interface: Yeah indeed .Industrial Designer: Yeah so it doesn't uh become too complicated with too much buttonsand uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah right .Project Manager: Yep , and maybe we do uh {vocalsound} we even have uh more than just a D_V_D_ player . Don't we have uh other uh ouUser Interface: Yeah we shouldmake it compatible perhaps with everything we use , we uh we make ?Project Manager: Uh .Industrial Designer: And stereo uh s uh audio installations .Project Manager: We also uh just uh released a T_F_T_ uh thing Isaw .Marketing: Yeah so but th that's kind kind of standard T_ television so it also works on that .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Yep .User Interface: And I think the people who who willbuy our uh remote already have some experience with remotes . So we can keep that in mind .Industrial Designer: Most people do , yeah .Project Manager: Well yeah .Industrial Designer: It doesn't {gap}ProjectManager: It doesn't have to be , but we can .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: it doesn't have to be {disfmarker}User Interface: W well it's a n it's a new remote and you don't buy a remote if you don'thave anything to uh to control with it .Project Manager: Well except if we deliver it together with our D_V_D_ .Marketing: Yeah but {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah alright , but{disfmarker}Marketing: We need to to keep it consistent with other d uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah because we look at competitorsIndustrial Designer: Well .Project Manager: and w if we pick up the goodthings about that and give it a nice design {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Hmm .Marketing: Yeah but it's {disfmarker} it has to be useable .Industrial Designer: It has to be different and familiar at the same time.Project Manager: Yes .User Interface: Yeah . YeahMarketing: Yeah .User Interface: we could use another form or shape or colour , that kind of things .Project Manager: Yep .Industrial Designer: {gap} yeah the shapewill will have to be recognised . I thought about uh like most uh remote controls uh are uh a long box shaped thing {gap}Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: you can make it uh triangle shaped ,User Interface:Well we we could make more more oval or something , and and {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: but that's not uh very recognisable .Marketing: {vocalsound} No .Project Manager: OoIndustrial Designer: Oval ?ProjectManager: N we can use uh it as a as a game pad .User Interface: Yeah or soIndustrial Designer: I {disfmarker}Project Manager: So {vocalsound} one hand has the beer , so the other hand uh {disfmarker}"}
{"doc_id":"doc_65","qid":"","text":"Lynne Neagle AM: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee. We've received no apologies for absence this morning. Can I ask if there are any declarations of interestfrom Members, please? No. Okay. Thank you. Item 3 this morning then is a scrutiny session on early childhood education and care, and I'm very pleased to welcome Julie Morgan AM, Deputy Minister for Health andSocial Services; Jo-anne Daniels, director of communities and tackling poverty at Welsh Government; and Nicola Edwards, deputy director of the childcare, play and early years division in Welsh Government. Thank youall for your attendance. We’re very much looking forward to the session. If you're happy, we'll go straight into questions, and the first ones are from Hefin David.Hefin David AM: Good morning, Deputy Minister. Whatare your primary objectives? Is it supporting the development of children or getting parents into work?Julie Morgan AM: Well, I think you'll be aware from the range of programmes that we've got that we do feel it’simportant to support both children and parents. There's obviously lots of evidence to show how important the early years are for children, how important they are for their development, and so, that is one of ourprimary objectives. But we also know how important it is for parents to have stable jobs, reasonably paid, so that can also help with the development of the children. So, we really see it that our plans are for bothparents and children, and we believe that a high-quality, early-childhood education and care system can provide that. And, of course, in terms of when we talk about jobs as well, I think it’s really important toremember that the childcare system is a big employer as well and a very important employer. So that, actually, itself provides jobs.Hefin David AM: So, the evidence we've seen suggests that, historically, Governmentsin the UK and devolved have focused on primarily getting parents into work. So, are you suggesting then that your focus is to change that and move towards early child development?Julie Morgan AM: No, what I'msaying is that we want to give parents the opportunity to work. We don't want childcare to be a barrier to parents working because we think that working is one the best routes out of poverty, but we do also want tomake sure that children have the greatest experience that they can have in the early years. So, we see it as one.Hefin David AM: Okay. And that's quite a policy challenge to deliver both at the same time.Julie MorganAM: The situation as it is is complex, and I think it needs simplifying. It is a challenge, but it’s probably one of the most important challenges we've got in Government, because what we offer to families with youngchildren is one of the most important things we do.Hefin David AM: And in your evidence to the committee, you said that the Welsh Government’s approach 'will build on a wide variety of programmes that arecontinually developing in order to support parents, families and children during the early years.' And you've just said you want to simplify that. How do you simplify that, particularly with regard to the provision offunding and the way these things connect from the birth of a child into school? How will simplification look, and what will happen?Julie Morgan AM: Well, we're not at the stage of being able to say what it will look like atthe moment, but we're looking at ways of simplifying, because I think it’s absolutely right, it is a very complex system, because it’s grown up from all different routes. But we are having lots of pilot projects that arelooking at ways of simplifying the system. We have got pathway projects in, I think it’s eight local authorities, who are looking at ways of joining up the whole system. So, we are looking at that, and I absolutely exceptthat it is very complex and we want to find ways of making it simpler and easier to understand. So, we are working with local authorities and health boards to see how we can actually work together and simplifythings.Hefin David AM: And it's good to hear that that's your objective. Can I just come back to the first thing you said: 'We can't say yet what we're going to do'?Julie Morgan AM: No.Hefin David AM: So, when will wehave a policy plan and something that we can interrogate in more detail?Julie Morgan AM: Well, I think we are near getting to an announcement where we will be able to say what direction we're going in, and becausewe have had—. Some of this work has been going on for a year or so, and we're getting the results of those pathfinder projects coming in. So, when we do have all those results, we will be able to say the direction thatwe want to go in, and I hope we'll be able to do that very soon.Hefin David AM: Before Christmas?Julie Morgan AM: I hope so.Hefin David AM: Okay. And finally from me—Julie Morgan AM: I'm sorry I can't say too muchabout that because we haven't actually—. We need to—.Hefin David AM: Well, it does sound like something is imminent.Julie Morgan AM: Yes.Hefin David AM: Okay. And that's as far as you're willing to go. And if that'sas far as you're willing to go, then I'll stop asking.Lynne Neagle AM: I've got a supplementary from Siân.Hefin David AM: Okay.Julie Morgan AM: Yes, that's fine.Sian Gwenllian AM: I just want to understand a littleabout the pilot, the pathfinders in eight local authority areas. Is the focus there on the child or is it on parents returning to work?Julie Morgan AM: The focus is on an early years system, but we've worked both locallyand nationally. So, it's looking at both. I mean, actually, I think, perhaps, Nicola, would you like to or one of you like to describe one of the programmes?Sian Gwenllian AM: And can you just explain the vision? Is it achild-centred early years provision that we're thinking of in these pathfinder—?Jo-Anne Daniels: So, in 'Prosperity for All', we set out that early years was one of the key priority areas, and within that we said that wewanted to create a more joined-up and more responsive system. So, when we talk about a system, we're talking about the services that are provided by health boards, so health visiting, midwifery, speech and languagesupport, other kinds of therapeutic services, as well as all the important services that local authorities are providing, such as support for parenting, advice and guidance, employment support and childcare, obviously.And we've got eight pathfinders. I'll try and remember each of them. So, Flintshire, Newport, Blaenau Gwent, Neath Port Talbot, Swansea, Ceredigion, Pembrokeshire—and then I've missed one, I think, because I'veonly got to seven—who have been working with us to look at how all of those services are currently delivered in their local area and whether and how they can reorganise those services to improve accessibility, toimprove take-up, but essentially to improve the efficacy of those programmes in terms of supporting children, but often, obviously, in supporting children you have to support parents too and support the home.SianGwenllian AM: So, would you say it's a child-centred approach?Jo-Anne Daniels: Absolutely, because it's about making sure that we deliver the best start in life for children in Wales, but obviously parents are a criticalelement of that, so can't be excluded.Lynne Neagle AM: And how long have they been going for?Jo-Anne Daniels: So, those eight pathfinders started their work in—I think it was—February this year. And they're still inthe very early stages in terms of actually unpicking and mapping the current provision of services across their areas and then moving on to the stage where they'll develop proposals for how they might change thedelivery of early years.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. Julie.Julie Morgan AM: Just to say also, the one in Flintshire is also testing the impact of consistent funding rates for education and childcare. So, that's beengoing longer than the others. So, that's another important area because there's an evaluation of that project under way at the moment.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you.Jo-Anne Daniels: Sorry, but Caerphilly was the onethat I forgot to mention.Lynne Neagle AM: Oh dear. [Laughter.]Hefin David AM: That's absolutely unforgivable. [Laughter.]Lynne Neagle AM: Hefin. [Laughter.]Julie Morgan AM: Very significant.Hefin David AM: In yourreport, the 'Alignment of the Childcare Offer for Wales to the Foundation Phase', one of the recommendations was that 'The Welsh Government, local authority education and childcare policy and delivery teams couldmerge'. So, looking behind the scenes, those disparate parts of policy, delivering the foundation phase and childcare offer should merge. Is that the case? Has that been put under way and should we be looking at thisstructure in more depth?Julie Morgan AM: Well, probably not at the structure at this time because the report that you're referring to was looking at the first year of the delivery of the childcare offer and it did make anumber of points, which we have taken on board. For example, we issued guidance last year regarding the delivery of the foundation phase, which supports widening the number of non-maintained settings that are ableto deliver early education and we're also supporting co-location and partnership working between education and childcare providers through our capital investment programme. I think it's about £81 million that we putinto the capital investment where we are developing childcare facilities co-located with the education facilities, because that was one of the things that came out from this report you're referring to. And, I mean,obviously, early years is one of the key priorities within 'Prosperity for All' and, obviously, education sits within one portfolio with the Minister for Education, and childcare is with me. But we're doing what we can to worktogether to try to bring those together, and that was one of the proposals in that report. But it's still very early to think about, at this stage, a structural change.Hefin David AM: And I remember when you were on thecommittee here with me, sitting next to me, we had those discussions about co-location. I know the problem with not having co-location is that you could end up seeing a child travelling between three or more locationsduring the course of a day. Are you suggesting now that the actions you're taking will resolve that issue universally, or will it lead to a piecemeal resolution? And, if so, to what extent, what percentage of children willsee that resolved as an issue?Julie Morgan AM: Certainly, the co-location is not going to solve it universally because although we've been able to develop a lot of new facilities, or build on old facilities, there will be a lotof areas that we won't have covered. So, I can't say that there's going to be a situation where everything is going to be co-located because I don't think that would be feasible, and,for some of the providers, theywouldn't be in a position to move to a school. But ideally it's a good situation, but, certainly, I think the discussions that there were on the committee, it's not ideal to take children for long distances between differentproviders, let alone the effect it has on the climate change issue. It's whether it's good for children as well. So, I can't say that they will ever be co-located, but as I said in response to your earlier question, we areencouraging the development of the foundation phase in non-maintained settings, which, obviously, is quite significant.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Thank you. I've got some questions now from Janet Finch-Saunders.JanetFinch-Saunders AM: Thank you, Chair. What is the Welsh Government doing to address the big differences in the amount of early childhood education and care provision available in different parts of Wales?Julie MorganAM: Right. Well, thank you very much for that question. I mean, obviously, it would be good to see a greater degree of consistency, but I think it's important to acknowledge that there are reasons for that variation.Now, early education, of course, is the responsibility of the Minister for Education, and we are aware that different local authorities have adopted different patterns of providing early education. For example, localauthorities are funded to provide 10 hours minimum of the foundation phase for three and four-year-olds across Wales, but there's quite a variance in how much is actually provided, with some local authoritiesproviding a lot more historically. So, it does mean that there is a different pattern across Wales, according to what local authorities do. But what I could say is, of course, the quality is very good, as the Estyn reportshave shown; that the quality provided, the delivery of the foundation phase, is very good. But it does vary in terms of what is offered throughout Wales, and that is the decision of the local authorities, and it is ahistorical thing. I refer to this pilot in Flint, which is trying to test paying the same rate for foundation phase and childcare. We're going to have an independent evaluation on that soon, in November this year, so thatwill help us. Obviously, I think local authorities' role in all this is absolutely crucial because they are the local, nearest people to decide how things develop in their own areas. And then, of course, we've got Flying Start,which is geographically targeted, which uses the data from income benefit to decide which are the areas where that is being delivered. And that is delivered where the highest proportion of children aged nought to threeare living in income-dependent households. So, again, that determines the pattern throughout Wales. With Flying Start being geographically targeted, with the education being determined by the local authorities abouthow much there is, we know that there is a variance throughout Wales. We'd like to see facilities developed in each local authority throughout Wales that would answer the needs of the families and the children in thoseareas.Lynne Neagle AM: Before you move on, Janet, Siân's got a supplementary.Sian Gwenllian AM: Just in terms of the foundation phase, there have been cuts, of course, in expenditure in that phase. How concernedare you about that and the impact that that will have on the way in which the foundation phase is taught in our schools? The foundation phase is now part of the education improvement grant, which has seen areduction of 10 per cent, and it has to compete against other expenditure streams within that greater pot of funding. So, are you concerned that money is being lost and that that will have an impact on standards in thefoundation phase?Julie Morgan AM: I haven't seen any evidence. Obviously, I must reiterate the foundation phase does come under the Minister for Education, but I haven't seen any evidence of any standards beinglowered, and the reports from Estyn are very good. In fact, I think the foundation phase is one of our great joys, that we absolutely celebrate it, and so I'd be very concerned if I thought there was any drop in standardsin the foundation phase, and I certainly haven't had any evidence of that. I would want to guard against that.Sian Gwenllian AM: Exactly, but if there are fewer teaching assistants in the system because of the cuts, it'sgoing to impact on standards, at the end of the day.Julie Morgan AM: I think we have to be very careful to see that lower standards are not implemented, because it was groundbreaking when we brought it in, and ithas proved to be a great success, so we want to make sure that's guarded.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Janet.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Going back to my original question about the big differences in amounts of earlychildhood education and care provision in different parts of Wales, the Welsh and UK Governments have followed a demand-driven approach to the childcare market, with subsidies mainly given to working parents. Isthat a mistake? Should it be more universally available?Julie Morgan AM: Well, some of our provision is universally available in certain areas. For example, the Flying Start provision is universally available ingeographically defined areas, and I think that's very important, because that does mean that there isn't stigma, and so,in those areas, everybody can take advantage of it, and yet it is reaching those who are most inneed because it's reaching those areas. So, I think that there is a purpose behind that. In terms of when you say demand led, could you elaborate on that?Janet Finch-Saunders AM: I know that—we've just had a usefulbriefing from David Dallimore, and, basically, there is this theory that there are too many resources—the demand-driven approach is based more on certain factors: geographic spread in terms of it being moreuniversal, and whether that's the right way. How do children then mix with peers from different backgrounds, in their own peer or age group?Julie Morgan AM: It is demand—Nicola Edwards: [Inaudible.]—because theoffer is targeted at working parents—Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Yes, yes.Nicola Edwards: —obviously, then the amount of availability is based on how many parents apply for it and take it up. Is that the context ofdemand led in that—Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Yes.Nicola Edwards: Right, okay.Julie Morgan AM: It is universally available to all parents who meet the eligibility criteria of working, and I think what you're saying is thatit should be available to everybody.Lynne Neagle AM: I think the point that Janet's making is that some areas have traditionally got more childcare anyway because they have traditionally had more demand in thoseareas, so there's not a level playing field to start from. Is that correct?Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Yes.Julie Morgan AM: I think that, historically, that is definitely true, and when you look at the take-up of the childcareoffer, it's certainly taken up in some areas with a very high take-up rate. I think Ynys Môn was nearly 90 per cent or something—Sian Gwenllian AM: They need more money, because they haven't got enoughfunding.Dawn Bowden AM: So does everywhere.Sian Gwenllian AM: No, to meet the demand.Julie Morgan AM: In other areas, it's much, much lower—in some of the cities, I know. So, there is a big range intake-up—Janet Finch-Saunders AM: So, do you intend to bring something forward to address that?Julie Morgan AM: We are planning to extend it. We're looking at the possibility of extending it to parents who are ineducation and training. So, we are widening the offer, yes. Obviously, we have to wait for the evaluation of that. It would be great to be able to offer it to absolutely everybody, but obviously we have got the finance tolook at in terms of how we do that. But we are certainly planning to expand it.Lynne Neagle AM: We've got questions on the offer in a little while. Janet.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Does the Welsh Government intend todevelop an integrated approach, then, against all settings? If so, given the current inconsistencies, how can quality be assured?Julie Morgan AM: We are developing a more integrated approach towards the early years.As I've said, we're trying to have the foundation phase operating in more non-maintained settings, and we're already developing that. But Estyn and CIW will continue to inspect and regulate the early years sector toensure standards, and, since January 2019, CIW and Estyn have moved to joint inspections for the non-maintained settings that are offering the foundation phase. So, that is a very positive move, I think, and isabsolutely making sure that standards are maintained, because if we are having the foundation phase in non-maintained settings, that is a challenge where we want to be sure that the standards and the philosophy ofthe foundation phase are maintained. So, we have got the system of inspection to ensure that.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: And finally from me, what specific steps have been put in place to take forward the commitmentsfrom the Welsh Government's 2017 childcare/play early years workforce plan to build a better understanding of the workforce's Welsh language skills to enable support for the sector to be targeted and to identify wherecapacity needs to be built for the future to meet the needs of the early years sector in a bilingual Wales?Julie Morgan AM: We think this is very important, and we're pleased that 29 per cent of children taking up thechildcare offer are in Welsh or bilingual settings, so we think that's very good. We have established a specific programme to develop Welsh language skills in the childcare and play workforce with the National Centre forLearning Welsh, to develop workplace Welsh language skills across the sector. So, we're actually working with that, and I think you've done something with those recently, haven't you? I don't know if you wantto—Nicola Edwards: Yes. So, we have a stakeholder group where we've brought together a variety of people with an interest in the early years, childcare and play sectors, and we had a presentation just last month fromthe national language centre about the education programmes that they're rolling out, and how this is all coming together, which is quite interesting. We've been working quite carefully to make sure that the variety of"}
{"doc_id":"doc_66","qid":"","text":"PhD A: Eh , we should be going .Professor B: So ne next week we 'll have , uh , both Birger {pause} and , uh , Mike {disfmarker} Michael {disfmarker} Michael Kleinschmidt and Birger Kollmeier will join us .PhD D: Uh -huh .Professor B: Um , and you 're {disfmarker} {vocalsound} you 're probably gonna go up in a couple {disfmarker} three weeks or so ? When d when are you thinking of going up to , uh , OGI ?PhD D: Yeah , like , uh, not next week but maybe the week after .Professor B: OK . Good . So at least we 'll have one meeting with {vocalsound} yo with you still around , and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker}PhD D: Uh - huh .Professor B:That 's good .PhD D: Um , Yeah . Well , {vocalsound} maybe we can start with this . Mmm .Professor B: All today , huh ?PhD D: Yeah .Professor B: Oh .PhD D: Um . Yeah . So there was this conference call this morning, um , and the only topic on the agenda was just to discuss a and to come at {disfmarker} uh , to get a decision about this latency problem .Professor B: No , this {disfmarker} I 'm sorry , this is a conference callbetween different Aurora people or just {disfmarker} ?PhD D: Uh , yeah . It 's the conference call between the Aurora , {vocalsound} uh , group .Professor B: It 's the main conference call . OK .PhD D: Uh , yeah .There were like two hours of {pause} discussions , and then suddenly , {vocalsound} uh , people were tired , I guess , and they decided on {nonvocalsound} a number , two hundred and twenty , um , included eincluding everything . Uh , it means that it 's like eighty milliseconds {pause} less than before .Professor B: And what are we sitting at currently ?PhD D: Um .Professor B: Yeah .PhD D: So , currently d uh , we havesystem that has two hundred and thirty . So , that 's fine .Professor B: Two thirty .PhD D: Yeah . So that 's the system that 's described on the second point of {pause} this {vocalsound} document .Professor B: So it 's{disfmarker} we have to reduce it by ten milliseconds somehow .PhD D: Yeah . But that 's {disfmarker} Yeah . That 's not a problem , I {disfmarker} I guess .Professor B: OK . W It 's {disfmarker} it 's p d primary{disfmarker} primarily determined by the VAD at this point ,PhD D: Um .Professor B: right ?PhD D: Yeah .Professor B: S so we can make the VAD a little shorter .PhD D: Yeah . At this point , yeah .Professor B: That 's{disfmarker}PhD D: Yeah , uh - huh .Professor B: Yeah . We probably should do that pretty soon so that we don't get used to it being a certain way .PhD D: Uh - huh .Professor B: Yeah .PhD D: Um .Professor B: WasHari on the {disfmarker} on the phone ?PhD D: Yeah , sure .Professor B: OK .PhD D: Well , it was mainly a discussion {vocalsound} between Hari and {vocalsound} David ,Professor B: Hmm .PhD D: who was like{disfmarker}Professor B: Yeah .PhD D: Uh ,Professor B: OK .PhD D: mmm {disfmarker} Uh , yeah . So , the second thing is the system that we have currently . Oh , yes . We have , like , a system that gives sixty - twopercent improvement , but {vocalsound} if you want to stick to the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} this latency {disfmarker} Well , it has a latency of two thirty , but {vocalsound} if you want also to stick to the number{vocalsound} of features that {disfmarker} limit it to sixty , {vocalsound} then we go a little bit down but it 's still sixty - one percent . Uh , and if we drop the tandem network , then we have fifty - seven percent.Professor B: Uh , but th the two th two thirty includes the tandem network ?PhD D: Yeah .Professor B: OK . And i is the tandem network , uh , small enough that it will fit on the terminal size in terms of {disfmarker}?PhD D: Uh , no , I don't think so .Professor B: No .PhD D: No .Professor B: OK .PhD D: It 's still {disfmarker} in terms of computation , if we use , like , their way of computing the {disfmarker} the maps {disfmarker}the {disfmarker} the MIPs , {vocalsound} I think it fits ,Professor B: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .PhD D: but it 's , uh , m mainly a problem of memory .Professor B: Right .PhD D: Um , and I don't know how much {pause}this can be discussed or not , because it 's {disfmarker} it could be in ROM , so it 's maybe not that expensive . But {disfmarker}Professor B: Ho - how much memory d ? H how many {disfmarker} ?PhD D: I d I d uh , I{disfmarker} I don't kn remember exactly , but {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Uh . Yeah , I c I {disfmarker} I have to check that .Professor B: Yeah . I 'd like to {pause} see that , cuz maybe I could think a little bit aboutit , cuz we {vocalsound} maybe we could make it a little smaller or {disfmarker} I mean , it 'd be {disfmarker} it 'd be neat if we could fit it all .PhD D: Uh - huh .Professor B: Uh , I 'd like to see how far off we are .PhDD: Mm - hmm .Professor B: But I guess it 's still within their rules to have {disfmarker} have it on the , uh , t uh , server side . Right ?PhD D: Yeah . Yeah .Professor B: OK .PhD D: Mmm .Professor B: And this is still{disfmarker} ? Uh , well , y you 're saying here . I c I should just let you go on .PhD D: Yeah , there were small tricks to make this tandem network work . Uh , {vocalsound} mmm , and one of the trick was to ,{vocalsound} um , use {vocalsound} some kind of hierarchical structure where {pause} the silence probability is not computed by {pause} the final tandem network but by the VAD network . Um , so apparently itlooks better when , {vocalsound} uh , we use the silence probability from the VAD networkProfessor B: Huh .PhD D: and we re - scale the other probabilities by one minus the silence probability . Um . So it 's some kindof hierarchical thing , {vocalsound} uh , that Sunil also tried , um , {vocalsound} {vocalsound} on SPINE and apparently it helps a little bit also . Mmm . And . Yeah , the reason w why {disfmarker} why we did thatwith the silence probability was that , {vocalsound} um {disfmarker}Professor B: Could {disfmarker} ? Uh , uh , I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm really sorry . Can you repeat what you were saying about the silence probability?PhD D: Mm - hmm .Professor B: I only {disfmarker} My mind was some {disfmarker}PhD D: Yeah . So there is the tandem network that e e e estimates the phone probabilitiesProfessor B: Yeah . Yeah .PhD D: and thesilence probabilities also .Professor B: Right .PhD D: And {vocalsound} things get better when , instead of using the silence probability computed by the tandem network , we use the silence probability , uh , given bythe VAD network ,Professor B: Oh .PhD D: um ,Professor B: The VAD network is {disfmarker} ?PhD D: Which is smaller , but maybe , um {disfmarker} So we have a network for the VAD which has one hundred hiddenunits , and the tandem network has five hundred . Um . So it 's smaller but th the silence probability {pause} from this network seems , uh , better .Professor B: OK .PhD D: Mmm . Uh . Well , it looks strange , but{disfmarker}Professor B: Yeah . But {disfmarker}PhD D: but itProfessor B: OK .PhD D: Maybe it 's {disfmarker} has something to do to {vocalsound} the fact that {vocalsound} we don't have infinite training data and{disfmarker}Professor B: We don't ?PhD D: Well ! And so {disfmarker} Well , things are not optimalProfessor B: Yeah .PhD D: and {disfmarker} Mmm {disfmarker}Grad E: Are you {disfmarker} you were going to saywhy {disfmarker} what made you {disfmarker} wh what led you to do that .PhD D: Yeah . Uh , there was a p {comment} problem that we observed , um , {vocalsound} {vocalsound} that there was {disfmarker}there were , like , many insertions in the {disfmarker} in the system .Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD D: Mmm .Professor B: Hmm .PhD D: Actually plugging in the tandem network was increasing , I {disfmarker} I{disfmarker} I think , the number of insertions .Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD D: And , {vocalsound} um {disfmarker} So it looked strange and then just using the {disfmarker} the other silence probability helps . Mmm. Um {disfmarker} Yeah . The next thing we will do is train this tandem on more data .Professor B: So , you know , in a way what it might {disfmarker} i it 's {disfmarker} it 's a little bit like {vocalsound} combiningknowledge sources .PhD D: Um {disfmarker}Professor B: Right ? Because {vocalsound} the fact that you have these two nets that are different sizes {pause} means they behave a little differently ,PhD D: Mm - hmm.Professor B: they find different {pause} things . And , um , if you have , um {disfmarker} f the distribution that you have from , uh , f speech sounds is w {comment} sort of one source of knowledge .PhD D: Mm -hmm .Professor B: And this is {disfmarker} and rather than just taking one minus that to get the other , which is essentially what 's happening , you have this other source of knowledge that you 're putting in there . Soyou make use of both of them {vocalsound} in {disfmarker} in {pause} what you 're ending up with . Maybe it 's better .PhD D: Yeah .Professor B: Anyway , you can probably justify anything if what 's usePhD D: Yeah.Professor B: Yeah .PhD D: And {disfmarker} and the features are different also . I mean , the VAD doesn't use the same features there are .Professor B: Mm - hmm .Grad E: Hmm .Professor B: Oh !PhD D: Um{disfmarker}Professor B: That might be the key , actually .PhD D: Mm - hmm .Professor B: Cuz you were really thinking about speech versus nonspeech for that .PhD D: Mm - hmm .Professor B: That 's a good point.PhD D: Mmm . Uh . Well , there are other things that {vocalsound} we should do but , {vocalsound} um , {vocalsound} it requires time and {disfmarker} {vocalsound} We have ideas , like {disfmarker} so , thesethings are like hav having a better VAD . Uh , we have some ideas about that . It would {disfmarker} {vocalsound} probably implies working a little bit on features that are more {vocalsound} suited to a voice activitydetection .Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD D: Working on the second stream . Of course we have ideas on this also , but {disfmarker} {vocalsound} w we need to try different things and {disfmarker} Uh , but their noiseestimation , um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} uh {disfmarker}Professor B: I mean , back on the second stream , I mean , that 's something we 've talked about for a while . I mean , I think {nonvocalsound} that 'scertainly a high hope .PhD D: Yeah . {vocalsound} Mmm .Professor B: Um , so we have this {disfmarker} this default idea about just using some sort of purely spectral thing ?PhD D: Uh , yeah .Professor B: for asecond stream ?PhD D: But , um , we {disfmarker} we did a first try with this , and it {disfmarker} it {vocalsound} clearly hurts .Professor B: But , uh , how was the stream combined ?PhD D: Uh . {vocalsound} It wasc it was just combined , um , by the acoustic model . So there was , no neural network for the moment .Professor B: Right . So , I mean , if you just had a second stream that was just spectral and had another neuralnet and combined there , that {disfmarker} that , uh , {vocalsound} might be good .PhD D: Mm - hmm . Yeah . Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm . Mmm . Yeah . Um {disfmarker} Yeah , and the other thing , that noiseestimation and th um , maybe try to train {disfmarker} uh , the training data for the t tandem network , right now , is like {disfmarker} i is using the noises from the Aurora task and {vocalsound} {vocalsound} I thinkthat people might , {vocalsound} um , try to argue about that because {vocalsound} then in some cases we have the same noises in {disfmarker} for training the network {pause} than the noises that are used fortesting ,Professor B: Right .PhD D: and {disfmarker} So we have t n uh , to try to get rid of these {disfmarker} {vocalsound} this problem .Professor B: Yeah . Maybe you just put in some other noise , something that's different .PhD D: Mm - hmm . {vocalsound} Yeah .Professor B: I mean , it {disfmarker} it 's probably helpful to have {disfmarker} have a little noise there . But it may be something elsePhD D: Uh - huh .Professor B:th at least you could say it was .PhD D: Yeah .Professor B: And then {disfmarker} if it doesn't hurt too much , though .PhD D: Uh - huh .Professor B: Yeah . That 's a good idea .PhD D: Um . Yeah . The last thing is thatI think we are getting close to human performance . Well , that 's something I would like to investigate further , but , um , I did , like , um {disfmarker} I did , uh , listen to the m most noisy utterances of theSpeechDat - Car Italian and tried to transcribe them . And , um {disfmarker}Professor B: So this is a particular human . This is {disfmarker} this i this is Stephane .PhD D: Yeah . So that 's {disfmarker} that 's{disfmarker}Grad E: St - Stephane .Professor B: Yeah .PhD D: that 's the {disfmarker} the flaw of the experiment . This is just {disfmarker} i j {comment} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} it 's just one subject ,ProfessorB: Yeah .Grad E: Getting close .PhD D: but {disfmarker} but still , uh , {vocalsound} what happens is {disfmarker} is that , {vocalsound} uh , the digit error rate on this is around one percent ,Professor B: Yeah .PhDD: while our system is currently at seven percent . Um , but what happens also is that if I listen to the , um {disfmarker} {nonvocalsound} a re - synthesized version of the speech and {pause} I re - synthesized thisusing a white noise that 's filtered by a LPC , uh , filter {disfmarker}Professor B: Yeah .PhD D: Um , well , you can argue , that , uh {disfmarker} that this is not speech ,Professor B: Yeah .PhD D: so the ear is nottrained to recognize this . But s actually it sound like {pause} whispering , so we are {disfmarker}Professor B: Well , I mean , it 's {disfmarker}PhD D: eh {disfmarker}Professor B: There 's two problems there . I mean{disfmarker} I mean , so {disfmarker} so the first is {vocalsound} that by doing LPC - twelve with synthesized speech w like you 're saying , uh , it 's {disfmarker} {vocalsound} i i you 're {disfmarker} you 're addingother degradation .PhD D: Uh - huh .Professor B: Right ? So it 's not just the noise but you 're adding in fact some degradation because it 's only an approximation . Um , and the second thing is {disfmarker} which is mmaybe more interesting {disfmarker} is that , um , {comment} {vocalsound} if you do it with whispered speech , you get this number . What if you had {pause} done analysis {comment} re - synthesis and taken thepitch as well ? Alright ? So now you put the pitch in .PhD D: Uh - huh .Professor B: What would the percentage be then ?PhD D: Um {disfmarker}Professor B: See , that 's the question . So , you see , if it 's{disfmarker} if it 's {disfmarker} if it 's , uh {disfmarker} Let 's say it 's {pause} back down to one percent again .PhD D: Uh - huh .Professor B: That would say at least for people , having the pitch is really , reallyimportant , which would be interesting in itself . Um ,PhD D: Uh , yeah . But {disfmarker}Professor B: if i on the other hand , if it stayed up {pause} near five percent , {vocalsound} then I 'd say \" boy , LPC n twelve ispretty crummy \" . You know ?PhD D: Uh - huh .Professor B: So I I I 'm not sure {disfmarker} I 'm not sure how we can conclude from this anything about {disfmarker} that our system is close to {vocalsound} thehuman performance .PhD D: Ye Yeah . Well , the point is that eh l ey {disfmarker} the point is that , um , {vocalsound} what I {disfmarker} what I listened to when I re - synthesized the LP - the LPC - twelve {pause}spectrum {vocalsound} is in a way what the system , uh , is hearing , cuz @ @ {disfmarker} all the {disfmarker} all the , um , excitation {disfmarker} all the {disfmarker} well , the excitation is {disfmarker} is nottaken into account . That 's what we do with our system . AndProfessor B: Well , you 're not doing the LPC {disfmarker}PhD D: in this case {disfmarker}Professor B: I mean , so {disfmarker} so what if you did a{disfmarker}PhD D: Well , it 's not LPC , sure ,Professor B: What if you did LPC - twenty ?PhD D: but {disfmarker} LPC {disfmarker} ?Professor B: Twenty . Right ? I mean , th the thing is LPC is not a {disfmarker} areally great representation of speech .PhD D: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .Professor B: So , all I 'm saying is that you have in addition to the w the , uh , removal of pitch , {vocalsound} you also are doing , uh , a particularparameterization ,PhD D: Mm - hmm .Professor B: which , um , uh {disfmarker}PhD D: Mmm .Professor B: Uh , so , let 's see , how would you do {disfmarker} ? So , foPhD D: But that 's {disfmarker} that 's what wedo with our systems . And {disfmarker}Professor B: No . Actually , we d we {disfmarker} we don't , because we do {disfmarker} we do , uh , {vocalsound} uh , mel filter bank , for instance . Right ?PhD D: Yeah , but isit that {disfmarker} is it that different , I mean ?Professor B: Um , {vocalsound} I don't know what mel , {pause} uh , based synthesis would sound like ,PhD D: IProfessor B: but certainly the spectra are quite different.PhD D: Mm - hmm .PhD A: Couldn't you t couldn't you , um , test the human performance on just the original {pause} audio ?PhD D: Mm - hmm . This is the one percent number .Professor B: Yeah , it 's one percent .He 's trying to remove the pitch informationPhD D: Mm - hmm .PhD A: Oh , oh . OK ,PhD D: Mm - hmm .PhD A: I see .Professor B: and make it closer to what {disfmarker} to what we 're seeing as the feature vectors.PhD A: OK . So , y uh , your performance was one percent , and then when you re - synthesize with LPC - twelve it went to five .PhD D: Uh - huh . Yeah .PhD A: OK .Professor B: I mean {disfmarker} We were{disfmarker} we were j It {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it 's a little bit still apples and oranges because we are choosing these features in order to be the best for recognition .PhD D: Uh - huh .Professor B: And , um , i ifyou listen to them they still might not be very {disfmarker} Even if you made something closer to what we 're gonna {disfmarker} i it might not sound very good .PhD D: Yeah .Professor B: Uh , and i the degradationfrom that might {disfmarker} might actually make it even harder , {vocalsound} uh , to understand than the LPC - twelve . So all I 'm saying is that the LPC - twelve {vocalsound} puts in {disfmarker} synthesis puts insome degradation that 's not what we 're used to hearing ,PhD D: Uh - huh .Professor B: and is , um {disfmarker} It 's not {disfmarker} it 's not just a question of how much information is there , as if you will alwaystake maximum {vocalsound} advantage of any information that 's presented to you .PhD D: Mm - hmm .Professor B: In fact , you {vocalsound} hear some things better than others . And so it {disfmarker} it isn't{disfmarker}PhD A: But {disfmarker}Professor B: But , {vocalsound} I agree that it says that , uh , the kind of information that we 're feeding it is probably , {vocalsound} um , um , a little bit , um , minimal . There 'sdefinitely some things that we 've thrown away . And that 's why I was saying it might be interesting if you {disfmarker} {vocalsound} an interesting test of this would be if you {disfmarker} if you actually put the pitchback in . So , you just extract it from the actual speech and put it back in , and see does that {disfmarker} is that {disfmarker} does that make the difference ? If that {disfmarker} if that takes it down to one percentagain , {vocalsound} then you 'd say \" OK , it 's {disfmarker} it 's in fact having , um , {vocalsound} not just the spectral envelope but also the {disfmarker} also the {disfmarker} the pitch {vocalsound} that , uh ,{comment} @ @ {comment} has the information that people can use , anyway . \"PhD D: Uh - huh . Mmm .PhD A: But from this it 's pretty safe to say that the system is with either {vocalsound} two to seven percentaway from {pause} the performance of a human . Right ? So it 's somewhere in that range .Professor B: Well , or it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker}PhD A: Two {disfmarker} two to six percent .Professor B: Yeah , so{disfmarker} It 's {disfmarker} it 's one point four times , uh , to , uh , seven times the error ,PhD D: To f seven times , yeah .Professor B: for Stephane .PhD D: Um .Professor B: So , uh {disfmarker} uh , but i I don'tknow . I do don't wanna take you away from other things .PhD D: But {disfmarker} {comment} but {disfmarker}Professor B: But that 's {disfmarker} {vocalsound} that 's what {disfmarker} that 's the first thing thatI would be curious about , is , you know , i i {vocalsound} when you wePhD D: But the signal itself is like a mix of {disfmarker} um , of a {disfmarker} a periodic sound and , {pause} @ @ {comment} uh , unvoicedsound , and the noiseProfessor B: Mm - hmm .PhD D: which is mostly , {vocalsound} uh , noise . I mean not {pause} periodic . So , {pause} what {disfmarker} what do you mean exactly by putting back the pitch in ?Because {disfmarker}PhD A: In the LPC synthesis ? I think {disfmarker}Professor B: Yeah . You did LPC re - synthesis {disfmarker}PhD D: IProfessor B: L PC re - synthesis .PhD D: Uh - huh .Professor B: So ,{vocalsound} uh {disfmarker} and you did it with a noise source , rather than with {disfmarker} with a s periodic source .PhD D: Mm - hmm .Professor B: Right ? So if you actually did real re - synthesis like you do in"}
{"doc_id":"doc_67","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Okay . Everybody found his place again ? Yeah ?Marketing: Yes .Project Manager: That's nice . Okay so this is our second meeting . And uh still failing ? {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager:Uh now we're going um into the functional design . Um important thing of this phase is that we're going to uh try to get an agreement about the user requirements , technical function design , and the working design .So that we can move onto the second uh phase . But first this phase . Um first an announcement . There's a little adaptation in the air conditioning system . So {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager:{vocalsound} There's our {vocalsound} ghost mouse again . That that means that you can have a little trouble with , little trouble with the air conditioning , that's because of this uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: It's in wing C_ and E_ .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: So it should be over in a in a while , couple of days . But it's going to be cold anyway , so {vocalsound} I don't think you're gonna need it.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: No .Project Manager: Then our agenda . Now first the opening . Uh this time I will take the minutes . Uh you're going to have a presentation . All of you . Um and we've got fortyminutes for the whole uh prese for the whole uh presentations . So uh I suggest we take about seven minutes per presentation , and then we can have a little discussion about the new project requirements uh whichhave been sent to me . And then the decision on the control functions uh which we wanna include and those which we don't wanna include . So we've got forty minutes for all of it . So I suggest um let's start with thefirst presentation .Marketing: Yes .Project Manager: Um who wants to be first ?Marketing: Think I'll go first .Project Manager: Okay . So {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Just maybe it's easier ifyou um {disfmarker} Yeah I think you will tell {gap} your presentation as well . Just which function you have and what you're gonna talk about . {vocalsound}Marketing: 'Kay . My name is Freek Van Ponnen . I'm theMarket Expert . But you already knew that . Um I've done some research . We have we uh have been doing research in a usability lab where we observed um users operating remote controls . Uh we let them fill out aquestionnaire . We had one hundred of these uh test subjects . Uh in addition we did some market research . Uh see what the market consists of . What ages are involved . Well these are three quite astonishing results ,I thought . Um remotes are being considered ugly . F uh seventy five percent of the um people questioned uh indicated that they thought their remote were was ugly . Um and an additional eighty percent indicated thatthey would spend more money on a fancy-looking remote control . So {disfmarker} Um in addition remotes were not very functional . Fifty percent of the people indicated they only loo used about ten percent of thebuttons on a remote control . And fifty percent of the people indicated that their remote tended to get lost in their room . SoUser Interface: Mm .Marketing: some things . Then we did some research to the most relevantfunctions . Channel selection and volume selection um both got a ten on a scale of one to ten for relevancy . The power button got a nine . And teletext got a six and a half . So these are the most most uh importantfunctions on a remote control . Then there are some one-time use function . That's what I like to call them . That uh audio settings , video settings , and channel settings buttons . Which are not really used veryfrequently , but are still considered to be of some importance . Um channel selection was also indicated to be used very frequently . One hundred and sixty eight times per hour . Then these are the {disfmarker} This isthe market . Um sixty percent of the market consists of users between the ages sixteen and forty f six . Um {disfmarker} Main characteristic of this group is that they're very critical on the remote control . Um they liketo use new f new functions . But they also are very critical . They won't spend their money very easily . So {disfmarker} Um the users of forty six to sixty five years cons The make up forty percent of the market . Theyare not really very interested in features . But they do tend to spend their money a lot easier . What I think this indicates for our um design . I think we should make a remote for the future . And this means we wouldum have to focus on the age ages sixteen to forty five . Uh this also makes up most the biggest part of the market , so that will also be where our main profit would be gettable . Um this would mean we would have tomake a fancy design . Um {disfmarker} The results also indicated that um about one quarter of the people questioned thought that the remote control caused R_S_ R_S_I_ . Um this is certainly something to take intoaccount . And thirty four percent thought that it was hard to learn a n how to operate a new control , remote control . So these are two factors that I think should be included in the design . Besides of course that theremote must look very nice . And the functionality {disfmarker} As a lot of people indicated , they only use about ten percent of the buttons , I think we should make very few buttons . Uh this will also be uh beneficialto the design of the remote . Uh I think the most frequently used buttons should be emphasised . Especially the channel selection and audio uh selection buttons . 'Cause they're used most and so they should be robust. They shouldn't break down easily . Um {disfmarker} Then as mo as a lot of people indicated that their um remote got lost in the room , it might be and I say might be because it would um certainly boost the uhproduction costs a lot . But it might be a good idea to make a docking station . And this would , could get a button in it which would send a signal to the remote which would then beep . So you'd know where it is in theroom . And in addition to this it could um recharge the batteries in the remote if you put it in . Then um a surprisingly great deal of people w indicated that um an L_C_D_ screen in the remote control would be preferred. This was um mostly people in the age of sixteen to twenty five . But up till forty five it remains feasible . This would also greatly increase the production costs but I think these are just some small factors we couldconsider .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: That would be all .Project Manager: Thank you . So anybody have um any questions until now ?Marketing: Any questions ?Project Manager: About functional requirements?User Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: OkayIndustrial Designer: No .Project Manager: that's clear . {gap} Now to the second .Marketing: 'Kay . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Uhokay . Um I've been looking at uh the user interface of it . Um f for the techno f functions uh of of it . Um {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah . Yeah you can take your time .User Interface: Okay .Project Manager:We've got uh plenty of time ,User Interface: Mm ?Marketing: YeahProject Manager: so {disfmarker}Marketing: you should go to the top thingy . Slide show .User Interface: Oh .Project Manager: {gap}User Interface:Uh .Project Manager: Yeah . There it is . Yeah .User Interface: Okay .Marketing: Oh yeah .User Interface: Um yeah . I think uh we uh must use the general functions uh of the uh remote control . Uh uh I've do I've uhdone a little uh research on the internet and {gap} not much information about it , {gap} {disfmarker} Um about uh interface but uh {disfmarker} Uh {disfmarker} Yeah I I've been thinking about a simple manner uhto put a lot of functions uh uh in one um in one uh remote control . Uh so uh you've got a lot of devi uh devices like uh D_V_D_ uh uh television , uh stereo . So um {disfmarker} But uh it must be uh user-friendly . Soum uh you c you can't put a a lot of uh functions uh in one uh {disfmarker} Yeah . Uh uh uh {disfmarker} Yeah . In one um remote control .Project Manager: One remote .User Interface: But um {disfmarker} Yeah.Project Manager: {gap}User Interface: Um yeah . Got uh many functions in one uh remote control , um but um yeah you can see , this is uh quite simple uh remote control .Project Manager: {vocalsound}UserInterface: Um few uh buttons but uh {disfmarker} This uh re uh remote control got a a lot of uh buttons . Um uh people uh don't like it , uh so um {disfmarker} Well what uh I was uh thinking about was um uh keepthe general functions uh like they are . So uh like uh the on-off uh button . Uh keep it uh yeah l like a red button . Uh everybody everybody knows it so uh uh you don't have to change that . Um {disfmarker} Mypersonal uh preferences um . Use a display for uh specific uh functions of the different uh device . So um {disfmarker} Wh what I was th uh thinking about was um you've got um {disfmarker} Uh this the remotecontrol uh {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} {gap}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: and uh you got here the general functions , uh like uh the on-off button uh sound uh {vocalsound} Idunno um {disfmarker} And um here you've got a s kind of a display . It's a touchscreen . So um yeah you got a general f uh f the functions of the device uh for a D_V_D_ player or uh so um the pl yeah um f for uhplaying uh reverse uh {gap} . And um you got here uh real buttons for uh selecting uh a device . So um this button is for a D_V_D_ or {vocalsound} {disfmarker} So um for every um device you've got a uh a f a b apart uh display of a part buttons . So uh you you never got uh all the buttons uh on w one device .Project Manager: Hmm . {vocalsound}User Interface: So uh that's uh my uh idea about it .Project Manager: 'Kay .UserInterface: Um yeah and {disfmarker} Uh let's see . Uh yeah . So a touchscreen . Uh and um th the buttons uh the real buttons uh we have to use um . We better c um uh use uh quite uh large buttons uh for um yeah .Everybody uh have to use it so {disfmarker} Uh ol even even old people um young people . So uh we must keep uh buttons uh quite s uh simple and quite large . So uh {disfmarker} Um {disfmarker}Project Manager:Yeah .User Interface: Yeah . Uh yeah . That was uh my uh part of it .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: Anybody has questions about the technical functions ?Industrial Designer:WellProject Manager: {gap}Industrial Designer: I think if we are gonna use a touchscreen uh we're gonna go way above the twelve and a half Euros .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: N I I don't think so . Uh yougot uh quite a cheap uh touchscreen . S um it's uh not uh in colour or something .Project Manager: Touchscreen .User Interface: Uh it's just uh um one colo Uh yeah . Uh I seen uh w uh something on the internet uh nottoday but uh a few uh weeks ago . Uh you got uh yeah quite an uh a kind of uh touchscreen um and it's uh {vocalsound} for uh twenty uh Euros or uh less uh .Project Manager: Huh .User Interface: So it's possible.Marketing: Hmm .Project Manager: 'Kay . That's nice . Uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Well it would certainly make a fancy design .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: But the {disfmarker} Itwouldn't be very robust .Marketing: So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: It's very fragile and you can get scratches on it .Marketing: That is true .Project Manager: That's right .User Interface: Yeah that's true .ProjectManager: Uh maybe we can first um listen to your presentation ?Marketing: We would have to look into that .Project Manager: Uh {disfmarker} And then we {gap} have a little discussion about the requirements and uhdesign .User Interface: Uh .Industrial Designer: That's {gap} . Okay .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I think it's going to {disfmarker} Uh it's not too much .Okay . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay I've got a presentation about the working design . Um first about how it works . It's really simple of course . Everybody knows how a remote works . The user presses abutton . The remote determines what button it is , uses the infrared to send a signal to the T_V_ . The T_V_ switches to the frequency , or what function it is . So we've got um the the plate . It gots conductive disks forevery button . When the user presses a button , a signal got sent , goes to the LED and transmits tranmi transmits its to the T_V_ . It's a very simple device , technically speaking . So this is a schematic overview .You've got the buttons . The power source . And uh when a button gets pressed , its goes to the chip . The chip uh controls the infrared bulb and perf perhaps a normal bulb . When you press a button you can actuallysee your pressed button . Well um I think we should use default materials , simple plastics . Keep the inner workings simple , so it's robust . Uh I think we should focus on aesthetics , the design and the user interface ,because if you're going to use high-tech materials the price is going to go sky-high . And uh you only have to design a remote once , and if you use high-tech materials it come back in every product . So it's , in my idea, it's uh it's gonna be smart to invest in di in design and not in uh in the product itself . That's it .Project Manager: Okay . Thank you . Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh {disfmarker} Okay now I hopeeverybody has a little bit more insight in the functions we all have and what we are doing right now . Um I'm the Project Manager so I'm here to mess things up and uh tell you some new uh requirements .UserInterface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um that's , we've uh got to design a um remote which is only suitable for T_V_ . Um that's because {vocalsound} uhit will be too complexUser Interface: Okay .Project Manager: and the time to market will be too big , if we wanna have it uh for more functions . So it has to be simple .User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: Uh anotherpoint is we have to skip the teletext , because in the world of uh upcoming internet uh we think teletext is going to be uh a thing of the past . And uh it's a function we don't need in our remote control .Marketing:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Um internet is also mentioned {gap} in a function we can use . Uh maybe also on televisions it will be available as well . Another one is uh the customer is uh forty plus . Uh that's the themarket we have to to to target , because we are going to develop a new product which is specially designed for the younger customers . Um this is uh a bit pity for the Marketing uh Expert .Marketing: {vocalsound}UserInterface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Because he was uh aiming on the the younger persons . So we have to find a market which is above forty plus uh but which will suit our uh remote control , andthe other way round . And we have to be very uh attent in uh putting the corporate image uh in our product . So it has to be visible in our design , in the way our device works . And uh we have to be uh very clear onthis point as well . So I suggest let's have a discussion on the control functions . Yeah .Marketing: So is there any discussion possible about the new product requirement ?Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh we can seeif we can find a way uh between the functions we wanna use and the market we wanna reach with our product . Um {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} Mm .Marketing: Yeah 'cause you're you're saying thatteletext is gonna be an old feature and it's not gonna be used anymore anyway pretty soon . And new T_V_s will have internet access on them .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: But I think if you're targetingpeople of forty plus , the chance that they will have a T_V_ with internet access within the next like twenty years is very slim .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: In addition people indicated that teletext simply was animportant feature for the remote control . So I think it's pretty dumb to put no teletext feature on it . I'm pretty much against it .Project Manager: Against the no teletext ?User Interface: Mm .Marketing: Yes .{vocalsound}Project Manager: Um {disfmarker}Marketing: Besides that , I think the market for forty plus is like pretty small . But I mean if I s if I see this , it's {disfmarker} I think we're just gonna go foranotherProject Manager: Yeah it's it is {disfmarker}User Interface: {gap} forty {disfmarker}Project Manager: Standard remote .Marketing: prettyProject Manager: No I think we canMarketing: and notinnovativeProject Manager: I think we can do a lot with the design and the simple buttonsMarketing: remote control .Project Manager: which were also mentioned . Uh if we put a lot of effort in those , we can make aremote control with uh just two or three buttons . Or just a remote which is suitable for the market we wanna reach because it is forty percent of the market .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: And um if you look inHolland at the whole generation of forty plus , fifty plus , it it's the the biggest share of the of the whole population now .Marketing: Yes but it's not the biggest part of the market .Project Manager: No .Marketing: Andbesides that , they're not very critical so {disfmarker} I mean they don't really care what the remote control is like . They'll just pretty much take the first thing they see and which looks acceptable .Project Manager:But don't you think that if we make a remote which is uh typically made for this market , that people think {gap} {disfmarker} the people think that's the the device I've looked for although I didn't realise it .UserInterface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So let's try it .Marketing: No . I think that would be the case in the sixteen to forty five age category . because they are critical and they they want to have a fancy remotecontrol .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: People of forty plus , I mean they want it to work , but as soo as soon as it works it's okay with them .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Mm .Industrial Designer: I thinkthat if we're {disfmarker} If we put our marketing right um we can sell this just like um {disfmarker} I don't know if you've heard about it in the news , the the elderly mobile phone ?Marketing: So {disfmarker}ProjectManager: Yeah . It's a big success .Industrial Designer: Yeah if we if we make a remote control just l with that idea in mind , we could make tons of money , I think .Project Manager: Very big success .Marketing: Ihaven't heard of it .Project Manager: Yeah . Uh . I think so as well .User Interface: Mm .Marketing: Hmm .Industrial Designer: We don't have to focus on on on the on the design then but on functionality . We justchange our focus on the project , and I think we can uh we can sell this .Project Manager: Uh I simply think umUser Interface: {gap}Project Manager: uh that the new products we are gonna make , uh spef specificallydesign , are designed for uh younger people , uh so maybe we can focus ourself on the elderly people . And I think we have to um see what requirements we need for those um remote controls . {vocalsound} 'Causewhat you told is the channel selection is important . Volume selection , power and teletext . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yes .User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: Okay . Um {disfmarker}User Interface:{vocalsound} Yeah .Marketing: Yes . But obviously the board tends to disagree .Project Manager: No we we haven't voted yet , so {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh I thinkteletext can be uh um can be a function as well . But only if uh if it won't higher the the cost , because I don't know if it will be a lot more money to implement teletext as well , but I don't think it will be a problem . Or isteletext a {disfmarker}User Interface: But um deaf people need uh teletext for uh for subtitles .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: So it's {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah , also .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager:Yeah . So I suggest uh {disfmarker}Marketing: I think it'd definitely be a bad idea not to include teletext .User Interface: It's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: Is anybody umreally against teletext ?Industrial Designer: No .Project Manager: No ? Just that , that we just keep the teletext . I think that's a good idea as well , especially for the subtitles . Maybe we can make that um another pointof advantage in our remote control , if we uh make a k a button ex for example for big subtitles , which is instantly on the remote control . For elderly people they can think , oh I wanna have subtitles ,User Interface:Yeah yeah .Project Manager: and they push the button and they get the big subtitles .User Interface: Yeah . Yeah .Industrial Designer: Uh that's a good idea .Project Manager: Um so I think teletext can v can be veryuseful in our advantage . Um {disfmarker} Functionality should be few buttons , you said .Marketing: Yes .Project Manager: I think uh that's very important we have a few buttons .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing:"}
{"doc_id":"doc_68","qid":"","text":"Marketing: Oh right okay . {vocalsound} I cover myself up . {vocalsound}Project Manager: I feel like Madonna with one of these on . I said I feel like Madonna with one of these on . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: {gap} .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I've always wanted one of these , I really have . {vocalsound} Where do you buy 'em from ? {vocalsound} They're {gap}.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Right . Hello everybody .User Interface: Hello .Project Manager: Back again for another wonderful meeting.Industrial Designer: {gap} .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Is uh everyone ready ?User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Almost . {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay , we c we canhold on for a minute .Marketing: {vocalsound} Oh my gosh . {vocalsound} {gap} {vocalsound}Project Manager: I figured with the spam thing , if you can't beat it , join in . {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: That's the kind of spam that everybody likes to receive .Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Mm 'kay .Project Manager: Areyou ready ? Okay , right , well , I take it that you are all ready now .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um alright first off we'll just uh recap from our last meeting . Um {vocalsound} which was we got togetherjust to basically decide on {disfmarker} well to talk about what it is that we were actually uh supposed to be doing ,Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: and who we all are and stuff like that , mm get bit more ofan idea together of what's going on . {vocalsound} Um what we are gonna talk about in this meeting is um now that we know what it is that we are doing , now we know that it's a T_V_ remote and stuff and you guyshave just been off doing some some uh R_ and D_ for that , that's research and development for those that haven't heard that before ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: see I'mlearning all sorts of new technologi terms in technology today . Um yeah , we're gonna hear your uh th three little presentations ,Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: whether they be on computer or on thewhiteboard or whatever you want .User Interface: Hmm . {vocalsound} Do you have any preference uh of order ?Project Manager: Um I'd like to um hearMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: o I'd like to hearwho's g who's on the um from from uh Catherine actually first . I want {disfmarker} what I'd like to hear about is uh if we've finally decided on um what sort of energy we're gonna be using andIndustrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: Batteries .User Interface: I think she is still finishing her {gap} . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: No no no no , it's fine I'm just preparing .Project Manager: It's just that {disfmarker} yeah ,let's let's hear from you first .Industrial Designer: Okay .User Interface: Hmm .Industrial Designer: Where is that thing ?User Interface: Okay , it's uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing: It's here .Industrial Designer:Oh sorry , couldn't see .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Would that work ?Project Manager: Get yourself in position . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay , so that's me again .Marketing:Ah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Um so um for the energy sources we can have a basic battery , a hand dynamo which is {disfmarker} which was used uh in the fifties for torches , if you remember that kind of{disfmarker} which wouldn't be v wouldn't be v vProject Manager: I don't think any of us remember the fifties .User Interface: Is it like a crank thing or something {gap} .Industrial Designer: yeah , yeah . It wouldn'tbe very fancy .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: You can have a kinetic provision of energy , which is used on some watches these days . So if you have just a bit of gentle movement that {disfmarker} it willgive it the energy to work .Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: Or you can use solar cells , but I'm not sure about that indoors , really , but {disfmarker}User Interface: Well , there's sometimes combinations , I mean ,like calculators do combinations of battery with {disfmarker} but also using some solar power .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Do {gap} sol solar panel things , do they have to work from the sun or canthey work from a light bulb ?Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: Does anybody know ?Industrial Designer: I dunno actually .User Interface: Uh I think , it has to be on the on the solar energy , but I don't know .IndustrialDesigner: I dunno . Um . Think the the uh what would cost the less would be the basic battery , really .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: And uh if we want something fancier , I think the kinetic provision ofenergy could be nice ,Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: but I don't know if it's worth the cost . So we've got to discuss that .Project Manager: Mm . Okay , jolly good .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} For the case ofthe remotes itself , um they can be a general case , which is just a flat one . You can have uh a curved one or a double curved one , if you know what I mean , so {disfmarker}Project Manager: What's a double curvedone ?Industrial Designer: You know , kind of more ergonomic , that kind of suits the palm of your hand , that kind of thing .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Um then the casematerial itself , so it can be uh uh either plastic or latex , uh rubber , wood , or titanium . And th for each of them you have uh cases where {disfmarker} for example titanium , you can't use it for {disfmarker} if you ifwe're choosing a double curved case , we can't choose titanium . And if we are choosing um solar cells then we can't choose latex for the case material , so we just have to take that into account . But if we're choosingjust the flat case then we can go for anything . And I think we discussed earlier on the R_ S_ I_ problem thing , so we could uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: So that might be an idea of using the rubber ,IndustrialDesigner: Yeah .Project Manager: but then it should , you know {disfmarker}User Interface: Let's have a squeezable remote . {vocalsound}Project Manager: yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah . And also it doesn't breakas easily maybe ,Project Manager: {gap} when a T_V_ programme's got one {gap}Industrial Designer: I dunno {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: watching the match and {gap} your team'sjust lost , you can fuzz it across the room and it'll bounce off the wall back at you .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah , I like that idea .Marketing:Mm .Industrial Designer: So rubber would be {disfmarker} Okay .Marketing: I think rubber's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Rubber , we're all we're all going {disfmarker} we're all liking that idea ? You think you canmarket that ?Marketing: But after my after my fashion thing , I think you'll realise that rubber is more {disfmarker}Project Manager: Ooh , we like rubber , ooh . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Uh s so if dMarketing:People . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: okay . And then there are the push-buttons , so you can have basic push-buttons or a scroll-wheels , like you have on a mouse , um or you could have um L_C_D_ , whichgives you a display . Um scroll buttons , as well .Project Manager: Uh-huh .Industrial Designer: So if you use a rubber double curved case , you must use rubber push-buttons . So if we're going for rubber then we haveto decide for the case . Um and if we choose double curved then we have to go for rubber push-buttons .Project Manager: Well , we're gonna go with {gap} I think we've decided that it's gonna be a rubber case so{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So it's a constraint . Yeah , but is it a double curved one or not ? {vocalsound} If it's not a double curved , then we've got the choice for the push-buttons , if it's a double curve , we'vegotta go for rubber push-buttons . If that makes sense .Project Manager: {gap} push buttons instead of the wheel ?Industrial Designer: Yeah . {gap} .User Interface: If it's rubber , isn't it malleable anyway , {gap} itdoesn't matter if it's double {disfmarker} I mean isn't a rubber case , mean it's completely flexed , I mean , it it flexes to whatever they want it to ? Mean so what's the difference between a normal rubber case and arubble doub double {disfmarker} rubber double curved case ? {vocalsound}Project Manager: {gap} rubble double double . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: No , but na le you see , you've got , okay , the energy that'sone thing ,Project Manager: I'll have a Big Mac , please . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: then you have the case is uh , whether it's flat or curved . And that's {disfmarker} {vocalsound} we don't care if it's rubrubber or not , but then we've decided that we going for rubber for the case material . So if we've chosen rub rubber and if now we have the choice for the case whether it's flat , single curved or double curved . And I'mjust saying if it {disfmarker} if we choose it to be double curved then we need to go {disfmarker} I dunno why , but we need to go for uh rubber push-buttons . So , either {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay .IndustrialDesigner: I dunno we just need to decide on the on the case .Project Manager: Let's have rubber push buttons , hey .User Interface: Okay . Go rubber . Go rubber the whole way .Industrial Designer: Let's go crazy .{vocalsound} And then , do I have a last slide ? Yes , I do . Um so the push-buttons themselves they can be just simple or they can be {disfmarker} so that's just the electronics between the but behind thepush-buttons .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Um and the price that go with it with it , so the simple push-buttons are gonna be the cheapest . Uh if we get a scroll-wheel , that's a higher price range . If weget an advanced chip which is um used for the L_C_D_ , the display thing , then that's even more expensive .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Simple , yeah . Chip on print . It's a bit {gap} . {vocalsound} Okay , uhwhat I'm not understanding hereIndustrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: {vocalsound} is uh , okay , advanced chip on print , which I presume is like one P_C_B_ and that's got all the electronics on one boardincluding the um infra-red sender ?Industrial Designer: {gap} . Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: The infra-red . Yeah .Project Manager: Right . Um what a what alternatives do we have to that ?{vocalsound} Y um {vocalsound} what alternatives do we have to the chip on print ?Industrial Designer: Well , if if it's not chip on print then , I guess , you get different chip components , and you build them separatelyand doesn't include the infra-red . It's less expensive mm {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} so it sounds {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Technically speaking , it's not as advanced , but it does the job , too. {vocalsound}Project Manager: So , why would we not go for that ? If it's something that's inside the the unit . {vocalsound} I it doesn't affects whether the customer's gonna buy it or not .Industrial Designer: Fo Itdoesn't , yeah , yeah , yeah . Totally . Yeah .Project Manager: Um we wanna go for an i i all {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So let's not go for the {disfmarker}Project Manager: so long as it works ,IndustrialDesigner: Yeah , yeah . I agree .Project Manager: you know . So let's not let's uh not bother with the chip on print .Industrial Designer: So it's either um the scroll-wheel or the push-buttons .Project Manager: Yeah . Syeah , push buttons .Marketing: What about the just developed uh sample sensor ?User Interface: I think push-buttons is {disfmarker}Project Manager: What about what ?Marketing: G there , the sample sensor ,sample speaker thing .Industrial Designer: Well {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well , what do we need a speaker for in a remote control unit ?Marketing: Mm , I dunno . Be cool .Industrial Designer: It'd be it'd be cool ,but they are saying they've just developed it ,User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound} Channel two . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I'm just guessing . But it's gonna be the most expensive option , probablyand {disfmarker}Project Manager: SUser Interface: Th the the {vocalsound} speech recognition um option is {disfmarker} it doesn't seem really very promising for us uh ,Project Manager: Yeah . It's not somethingthat we wanna t go into with this product .User Interface: 'cause uh {disfmarker} The yeah the example that they're already using it for is with the coffee machine , where , basically , you can program a sample wi um{disfmarker} That when you say something it will give a response , and you program the response as well . Just uh clips of tha that you record yourself . So you can program your coffee-maker that when you say , goodmorning , to it it says , hello Rick , or whatever .Project Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound}User Interface: But , I mean , it's not {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Hm .User Interface: it would be one thing if it was speechrecognition where you say something and it turns the T_V_ on like , turn the T_V_ on , and i turns {disfmarker} comes on , but it's not that . It just gives you a it just gives you a verbal response .Marketing: Oh , it justgives an answer .User Interface: So , yeah , I mean , like what's the point of saying , Hello remote , I mean , hello , how how are you ? {vocalsound}Marketing: Oh , then then {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah . Yeah. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Just if you are really lonely , maybe . {vocalsound}Marketing: I thought I thought it was {disfmarker} when they said {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah , if you're reallylonely , it is it's {disfmarker}Marketing: I thought when they said , voice recognition , they meant um like ,Industrial Designer: Channel five . And then it switches on .Marketing: channel five , and it will change .UserInterface: No , tha that w that w that would be more promising .Marketing: Like you talk to it . Can I have channel five ?Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: It it's just a remote thattalks to you .Project Manager: Yeah . Yeah .User Interface: Uh . {vocalsound} I mean to certain cues .Marketing: Oh , then {gap} forget about it . Oh right okay .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Okay , soI'll go back , maybe , to the previous slide and we can decide for each problem , what we should choose . So for the energy source , do we go for the battery or the {disfmarker}User Interface: 'Kay . Yeah , I'm fine withthe basic battery .Project Manager: Basic battery .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: It's cheap , it's cheerful , it's worked , does work .User Interface: Hmm .Industrial Designer: Cheaper option . Are you happy with that?Marketing: Mm . Yeah .Industrial Designer: Okay . So we'll go for the battery . Then the case , do you want it flat or curved or sing or double curved ?Project Manager: We were go we were going with the late with thethe R_S_I_ rubber , weren't we ?User Interface: Yeah , so we want it rub rubber double curved . {vocalsound}Project Manager: The the {gap} {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing: So it will look like something likethis .Industrial Designer: Double ?Project Manager: The double whopper , please .Industrial Designer: Okay , so then if we use double curved case , then we have to u choose rubber push-buttons ,Project Manager: Yep, but {disfmarker} we're going for the simple buttons .User Interface: So rubber rubber keys , yeah .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: and that's fine ?Project Manager: And it's cheapest all round , it soundskinda funky , and we can also market itIndustrial Designer: PUser Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: as i 'cause we were s saying earl you were saying earlier in your research that um the the people have the R_{disfmarker} people were getting the {disfmarker} complaining about R_S_I_ , and this is anti-R_S_I_ .Marketing: {gap} .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: So that's another marketingpoint that we can use .Marketing: Well the rubber push-buttons {gap} . Don't you have to move your {disfmarker}Project Manager: But anything is gonna have buttons .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: Even if it's ajog wheel , it's still repetitive . You {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I thought they would give an option of flat buttons or a {disfmarker}Project Manager: You see , you can still get {disfmarker} it does you still getrepetitive strain injury , whether you are pressing a button or pressing a flat bit of screen .Industrial Designer: That they don't . {vocalsound}Project Manager: It's the v it's the fact that you are pressing the same{disfmarker} doing the same movement .Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: {gap} .Project Manager: It's not actually what you are doing .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: But the fact that thisthis rubber i is actually used in these anti-R_S_I_ ps specific {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah , the rubber's good .User Interface: We're giving them a way to burn off steam ,basically , yeah .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah , so they can sit there and go like {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} Not that watching T_V_ should be that stressful .Project Manager: And you know ,yeah , you can fuzz it across the room and throw it at throw it at your children {disfmarker} yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Oh yeah , I guess T_V_ can be stressful , yeah , if you'rewatching sports .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Alright , that's me done .Project Manager: Okay , Gabriel . Let's um let's let's hear from you about the um it's {disfmarker} the interface .User Interface:Alright . Alright . Yeah , some of what I have to say ties into what Catherine was just talking about .Project Manager: Great .Industrial Designer: Sorry .User Interface: Okay , so I'm continuing with the user interface uhtopic . And so basically I consulted with our manufacturing division . It sounded like Catherine was also speaking with them . Uh I also took uh Reissa's marketing findings from the last meeting into consideration um ,'cause I think that's that's crucial as far as uh what keys we're going to inc inclu what buttons we are going to include and and how they're laid out .Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: Uh and so the manufacturingdivision uh sent some some samples of of uh interface components that we might be interested in using that have been used in other products , uh like the coffee machine . So I already mentioned the speechrecognition interface .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: I guess , we we basically vetoed that idea . It's it's pointless .Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: Uh it's just a sample sensor sample output . It wouldjust be probably the most expensive part of our remote without any actual interesting functionality as far as operating the T_V_ . Uh so yeah , they they also give the uh {disfmarker} they they suggested the idea ofusing a spinning wheel like you use on the side of an M_P_ three player like iPod .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: Mm .User Interface: Um so we've already addressed that and I think that would actually be worse forsomething like R_S_I_ I mean you got that thumb movement that you're constantly doing .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Mm .User Interface: Um the other suggestion ,Marketing: That does get annoying .UserInterface: and I I have a feeling that we're interested in in something more general , but they suggested uh , you know , going i a little bit into a a niche , like either gearing our remote towards kids , where you couldhave {gap} lot of colours um , the keys might be you know , funny or or {gap} ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: or uh something for the elderly , where the remote's very large and the buttons are verylarge and there's only a few buttons . But you know we can we can discuss this , but it sounded like from our last meeting we really wanted something that was general , but done well .Project Manager: Yeah .UserInterface: Uh {gap} um {disfmarker} So , the key layout and design are really crucial . You don't want uh you want people to be able to quickly access the buttons that they use a lot without uh always pressing thewrong one um . And I didn't mention that we need a power button {gap} in our last {disfmarker} I can give you an example here of uh , {gap} good layout and bad layoutIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}UserInterface: uh from our manufacturing department . So this would be an example of bad layout , where you have volume up and volume down , but they have a V_ on both of them , so uhProject Manager: Yeah . Yeah.User Interface: it's sort of confusing for the user . Uh this is the example of the giant remote that's impossible to lose .Project Manager: Do we have an uh example of a good one ? {gap} {vocalsound} Brilliant"}
{"doc_id":"doc_69","qid":"","text":"Professor C: Starts {disfmarker} No . No .PhD D: No . That 's a different thing .Professor C: There 's another {disfmarker} I don't know . It starts with a P or something . I forget the word for it , but it 's {disfmarker} it's umPhD D: Oh .Professor C: Typically when you {disfmarker} you 're ab r starting around forty for most people , it starts to harden and then it 's just harder for the lens to shift thingsPhD D: Oh .Professor C: and ththe {disfmarker} the symptom is typically that you {disfmarker} {vocalsound} you have to hold stuff uh uh further away to {disfmarker} to see it .PhD E: Uh - huh . Yeah .Professor C: In fact , uh m my brother 's a{pause} gerontological psychologist and he {disfmarker} he uh {vocalsound} came up with an {disfmarker} an uh {disfmarker} a uh body age test which uh gets down to sort of only three measurements that aregood enough st statistical predictors of all the rest of it . And one of them is {disfmarker} is the distance {vocalsound} that you have to hold it at .PhD D: Give someone a piece of paper and then they {disfmarker} Oh.PhD E: Yeah .Professor C: Yeah .Grad A: We 're {disfmarker} we 're live by the way , so we 've got a good intro hereProfessor C: Oh . Yeah . About how old I am .Grad A: Yep .Professor C: OK .Grad A: We can edit thatout if you want .PhD D: Oh , that 's optional .Professor C: No , that 's OK .Grad A: OK . So . This time the form discussion should be very short ,PhD D: You know .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Grad A: right ?Professor C: It alsoshould be {pause} later .Grad A: OK .Professor C: Because Jane uh is not here yet .Grad A: Good point .Professor C: And uh she 'll be most interested in that . Uh , she 's probably least involved in the signal -processing stuff so maybe we can just {disfmarker} just uh , I don't think we should go though an elaborate thing , but um uh Jose and I were just talking about {vocalsound} the uh {nonvocalsound} uh , speech eenergy thing ,PhD E: The @ @ {disfmarker}Professor C: and I uh {disfmarker}PhD E: Yeah .Professor C: We didn't talk about the derivatives . But I think , you know , the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} i if I can{disfmarker} if you don't mind my {disfmarker} my speaking for you for a bit , um {vocalsound} Uh . Right now , that he 's not really showing any kind of uh distinction , but uh {disfmarker} but we discussed a coupleof the possible things that uh he can look at . Um . And uh one is that uh this is all in log energy and log energy is basically compressing the distances {vocalsound} uh {pause} between things . Um {pause} Another isthat he needs to play with the {disfmarker} the different uh {pause} uh temporal sizes . He was {disfmarker} he {disfmarker} he was taking everything over two hundred milliseconds uh , and uh he 's going to varythat number and also look at moving windows , as we discussed before . Um And uh {disfmarker} and the other thing is that the {disfmarker} yeah doing the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} subtracting off the mean andthe variance in the {disfmarker} {pause} uh and dividing it by the {pause} standard deviation in the log domain , {vocalsound} may not be {pause} the right thing to do .Grad A: Hi Jane !PhD E: Hi .Grad A: We juststarted .PhD E: Yeah .Grad A: Could you take that mike there ?PhD D: Are these the long term means ? Like , over the whole {disfmarker} I mean , the means of {pause} what ?Grad A: Thanks .Professor C: Uh BBetween {disfmarker} between {disfmarker}PhD D: All the frames in the conversation ?Professor C: No .PhD D: Or of things that {disfmarker}Professor C: Between {disfmarker} Neither . It 's uh between the pauses{pause} uh for some segment .PhD E: No .PhD D: Oh .Professor C: And so i i his {disfmarker} his {disfmarker} He 's making the constraint it has to be at least two hundred milliseconds .PhD D: Oh .Professor C: And soyou take that . And then he 's {disfmarker} he 's uh measuring at the frame level {disfmarker} still at the frame level , of what {disfmarker}PhD D: Right .Professor C: and then {disfmarker} and then just uhnormalizing with that larger amount . um and {disfmarker} But one thing he was pointing out is when he {disfmarker} he looked at a bunch of examples in log domain , it is actually pretty hard to see {vocalsound} thechange . And you can sort of {pause} see that , because of j of just putting it on the board that {vocalsound} if you sort of have log - X plus log - X , that 's the log of X plus the log of twoPhD E: Yep .PhD D: Yeah ,maybe it 's not log distributed .PhD E: Mmm . Yeah .Professor C: and it 's just , {pause} you know , it {disfmarker} it diminishes the {pause} effect of having two of them .PhD E: Professor C: Um .PhD D: But you coulddo like a C D F there instead ? I mean , we don't know that the distribution here is normally .Professor C: Yes , right . So {disfmarker} So what I was suggesting to him is that {disfmarker}PhD D: So just some kind of asimple {disfmarker}Professor C: Actually , a PDF . But , you know , uh But , either way .PhD D: PDFProfessor C: Yeah . Yeah , eith eith uh {vocalsound} BPhD D: Yeah .PhD E: Yeah .PhD D: Something like that where it's sort of data driven .Professor C: Yeah , but I think {pause} also u I think a good first indicator is when the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the researcher looks at {vocalsound} examples of the data and can not see achange {pause} in how big the {disfmarker} the signal is , {vocalsound} when the two speaker {disfmarker}PhD E: Yeah . Yeah .Professor C: Then , that 's a problem right there . So . I think you should at least beable ,PhD D: Oh yeah .Professor C: doing casual looking and can get the sense , \" Hey , there 's something there . \" and then you can play around with the measures . And when he 's looking in the log domain he 's notreally seeing it .PhD D: Oh yeah .PhD E: Yeah .Professor C: So . And when he 's looking in straight energy he is , so that 's a good place to start .PhD E: Yeah .Professor C: Um . So that was {disfmarker} that was thediscussion we just had . Um . {vocalsound} The other thing Actually we ca had a question for Adam in this . Uh , when you did the {vocalsound} sampling ? uh {pause} over the {pause} speech segments or s orsampling over the {disfmarker} the individual channels in order to do the e uh the {pause} amplitude equalization , {vocalsound} did you do it over just the entire {disfmarker} everything in the mike channels ?PhD E:How {disfmarker}Professor C: You didn't try to find speech ?Grad A: No , I just took over the entire s uh entire channel um {pause} sampled ten minutes randomly .Professor C: Right , OK . So then that means thatsomeone who didn't speak {pause} very much {vocalsound} would be largely represented by silence .Grad A: Yep .Professor C: And someone who would {disfmarker} who would be {disfmarker} So the normalizationfactor probably is {pause} i i i {pause} is {disfmarker} is {disfmarker}Grad A: Yeah , this was quite quick and dirty , and it was just for {pause} listening .PhD E: Yeah .Professor C: Yeah .Grad A: And for listening itseems to work really well .Professor C: OK .PhD E: Yeah .Professor C: Yeah .PhD E: Yeah .Grad A: So .Professor C: Yeah . But that 's {disfmarker}Grad A: But , it 's not {disfmarker} Not a good measure .Professor C:Right . So thPhD E: Yeah .Professor C: OK . So yeah there {disfmarker} there {disfmarker} there {disfmarker} There 's a good chance then given that different people do talk different amounts {pause} that there is{disfmarker} there {disfmarker} there is still a lot more to be gained from gain norm normalization with some sortPhD E: Yeah . Yeah . Mmm .Grad A: Yes , absolutely .Professor C: if {disfmarker} if we can figure out away to do it .PhD E: Yeah .Professor C: Uh . But we were agreed that in addition to that {comment} uh there should be {pause} s stuff related to pitch and harmonics and so forth .PhD E: Yeah .Professor C: So wedidn't talk at all about uh the other derivatives , but uh again just {disfmarker} just looking at {disfmarker} Uh , I think uh Liz has a very good point , that in fact it would be much more graphic just to show{disfmarker} Well , actually , you do have some distributions here , uh for these cases .PhD E: Yeah . Yeah .Professor C: You have some histograms , um {pause} and {pause} uh , they don't look very separate .PhD E:Yeah .Professor C: uh {vocalsound} {pause} separated .PhD E: This is the {disfmarker} the first derivate of log of frame energy uh without any kind of normalization .PhD D: What {disfmarker}Professor C: Yeah . Yeah. Yeah .PhD D: Log energy . Sorry .PhD E: These the These are the {disfmarker} the first experiments uh with comment uhPhD D: Frame energy .Grad A: Except that {pause} it 's hard to judge this because the{disfmarker} they 're not normalized . It 's just number of frames .PhD D: Yeah .Professor C: Yeah .PhD D: Yeah .PhD E: Yeah .Grad A: But yeah , even so .PhD D: W {vocalsound} I mean , what I meant is , even ifyou use linear , {pause} you know , raw {pause} measures , like {pause} raw energy or whatever ,Professor C: \" Number \" {disfmarker}PhD D: maybe we shouldn't make any assumptions about the distribution 'sshape , and just use {disfmarker} you know , use the distribution to model the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} {pause} the mean , or what y you know , rather than the mean take some {disfmarker}Professor C: Yeah .But {disfmarker} And so in {disfmarker} in these he 's got that .PhD D: Yeah .Professor C: He 's got some pictures . But he doesn't {disfmarker} he doesn't in the {disfmarker} he iPhD E: Yeah .Professor C: just inderivatives , but not in the {disfmarker}PhD D: Yeah . Oh .Professor C: but he d but he doesn't {disfmarker} doesn't {disfmarker}PhD D: Right . So , we don't {pause} know what they look like {pause} on the ,{pause} tsk {disfmarker} {comment} For the raw .Professor C: But he didn't h have it for the energy . He had it for the derivatives . Yeah .PhD D: Yeah . So . I mean , there might be something there . I don't know.Professor C: Yeah .PhD D: Huh .Grad A: InterestingPhD E: Here I {disfmarker} IProfessor C: Oh that {disfmarker} yeah that 's a good qPhD E: in {disfmarker} No I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I haven't theresultProfessor C: did {disfmarker} did you have this sort of thing , for just the {disfmarker} just the l r uh the {disfmarker} the unnormalized log energy ? OK . Yeah . So she {disfmarker} she 's right .PhD E: but it 'sthe {disfmarker} it 's the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the following .Professor C: That 's a {disfmarker}PhD D: Well it might be just good to know what it looks like .Professor C: Yeah . That 's {disfmarker} That 's uh{pause} cuz I 'd mentioned scatter plots before but she 's right ,PhD D: Cuz {disfmarker}PhD E: Huh ?Professor C: I mean , even before you get the scatter plots , just looking at a single feature {vocalsound} uh ,looking at the distribution , is a good thing to do .PhD E: Yeah . Catal - uh {disfmarker} Combining the different possibilities of uh the parameters . I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I mean the {disfmarker}the {disfmarker} the scatter plot {pause} combining eh different {pause} n two combination .Professor C: Yeah , but {disfmarker} but what she 's saying {pause} is , which is right , is {pause} lePhD E: combination oftwo , {pause} of energy and derivate {disfmarker}Professor C: I mean , let 's start with the {disfmarker} Before we get complicated , let 's start with the most basic wh thing , which is {pause} we 're arguing that ifyou take energy {disfmarker} uh if you look at the energy , that , when two people are speaking at the same time , usually {vocalsound} {pause} there 'll be more energy than when one is right ?PhD E: Yeah.Professor C: That 's {disfmarker} that sort of hypothesis .PhD E: That 's right .Professor C: And the first way you 'd look at that , uh s she 's , you know , absolutely right , is that you would just take a look at thedistribution of those two things , much as you 've plotted them here ,PhD E: Yeah .Professor C: You know , but just {disfmarker} but just {disfmarker} {pause} just uh do it {disfmarker}PhD E: Yeah .Professor C: Wellin this case you have three . You have the silence , and that {disfmarker} that 's fine .PhD E: Yeah .Professor C: So , uh with three colors or three shades or whatever , just {disfmarker} just look at those distributions.PhD E: Yeah .Professor C: And then , given that as a base , you can see if that gets improved , you know , or {disfmarker} or {disfmarker} {pause} or worsened {pause} by the {disfmarker} looking at regular energy, looking at log energy , we were just proposing that maybe it 's {disfmarker} you know , it 's harder to {pause} see with the log energy , um and uh also these different normalizations , does a particular choice ofnormalization make it better ?PhD E: Yeah .Professor C: But I had maybe made it too complicated by suggesting early on , that you look at scatter plots because that 's looking at a distribution in two dimensions . Let 'sstart off just in one , uh , with this feature .PhD E: Yeah . Yeah .Professor C: I think that 's probably the most basic thing , before anything very complicated .PhD E: Yeah .Professor C: Um And then we w I think we 'reagreed that pitch - related things are {disfmarker} are {disfmarker} are going to be a {disfmarker} a really likely candidate to help .PhD D: Yeah .PhD E: Yeah . I agree , yeah . Uh - huh .Professor C: Um {pause} But{pause} since {disfmarker} {vocalsound} uh your intuition from looking at some of the data , is that when you looked at the regular energy , that it did in fact usually go up , {vocalsound} when two people weretalking , {vocalsound} that 's {disfmarker} eh you know , you should be able to come up with a measure which will {pause} match your intuition .PhD E: OK . Yeah . Yeah . Yeah , yeah , yeah .Professor C: And she 'sright , that a {disfmarker} that having a {disfmarker} having {disfmarker} {comment} having this table , with a whole bunch of things , {pause} with the standard deviation , the variance and so forth , it 's{disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's harder to interpret than just looking at the {disfmarker} the same kind of picture you have here .PhD E: But {disfmarker} Uh - huh . Yeah . But {disfmarker} It {disfmarker} it 'scurious but uh I f I found it in the {disfmarker} in the mixed file , in one channel {vocalsound} that eh in several {disfmarker} oh e eh several times eh you have an speaker talking alone with a high level ofenergyProfessor C: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .PhD E: eh in the middle eh a zone of overlapping with mmm less energyProfessor C: Mm - hmm .PhD E: and eh come with another speaker with high energyProfessor C: Mm- hmm .PhD E: and the overlapping zone has eh less energy .Professor C: Yeah . So there 'll be some cases for which {disfmarker}PhD E: Because there reach very manyProfessor C: But , the qu So {disfmarker} Sothey 'll be {disfmarker}PhD D: Right .Professor C: This is {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I w want to point {pause} to visual things , But I mean they {disfmarker} there 'll be time {disfmarker} There 'll be overlapbetween the distributions , but the question is , \" If it 's a reasonable feature at all , there 's some separation . \"PhD E: Yeah . Yeah .PhD D: Especially locally .Professor C: Mm - hmm .PhD D: So . Locally .PhD E: justlocally , yeah .Grad A: And {disfmarker} I was just going to say that {disfmarker} that {pause} right now we 're just exploring .PhD D: And the other thing is I Sorry . I {disfmarker}Grad A: What you would imagineeventually , is that you 'll feed all of these features into some {pause} discriminative system .PhD E: Yeah .Professor C: Yeah .Grad A: And so even if {disfmarker} if one of the features does a good job at one type ofoverlap , another feature might do a good job at another type of overlap .PhD E: Yeah . Yeah . Yeah .Professor C: Right . I mean the {disfmarker} the reason I had suggested the scatter f p features is I used to do this alot , when we had thirteen or fifteen or twenty features {pause} to look at .PhD E: Yeah , this is the {disfmarker}Professor C: um Because something is a good feature uh by itself , you don't really know how it 'llbehave in combination and so it 's nice to have as many {disfmarker} as many together at the same time as possible in uh in some reasonable visual form . There 's cool graphic things people have had sometimes toput together three or four in some funny {disfmarker} funny way . But it 's true that you shouldn't do any of that unless you know that the individual ones , at least , have {disfmarker} have some uh {disfmarker}some hopePhD E: Yeah .PhD D: Well , especially for normalizing .Professor C: Mm - hmm .PhD D: I mean , it 's really important to {pause} pick a normalization that matches the distribution for that feature .ProfessorC: Mm - hmm .PhD D: And it may not be the same for all the types of overlaps or the windows may not be the same . e Actually , I was wondering , {vocalsound} right now you 're taking a {disfmarker} all of the{pause} speech , from the whole meeting , and you 're trying to find points of overlap , but we don't really know which speaker is overlapping with which speaker ,Professor C: Right .PhD D: right ? So I mean anotherway would just be to take the speech from just , say , Morgan , And just Jane and then just their overlaps ,PhD E: Yeah .PhD D: like {disfmarker} but by hand , by cheating , and looking at you know , if you can detectsomething that way , because if we can't do it that way , there 's no good way that we 're going to be able to do it .Grad A: No prayer .PhD D: That {disfmarker} You know , there might be something helpful and cleanerabout looking at just {pause} individuals and then that combination alone .PhD E: Yeah .PhD D: Plus , I think it has more elegant {disfmarker} eProfessor C: Mm - hmm .PhD D: The m the right model will be {pause}easier to see that way . So if {disfmarker} I don't know , if you go through and you find Adam , cuz he has a lot of overlaps and some other speaker who also has e enough speechPhD E: Yeah .PhD D: and just sort oflook at those three cases of Adam and the other person and the overlaps ,PhD E: Yeah .PhD D: maybe {disfmarker} and just look at the distributions , maybe there is a clear patternPhD E: Yeah .PhD D: but we justcan't see it because there 's too many combinations of {disfmarker} of people that can overlap .PhD E: Uh - huh . Yeah .Postdoc B: I had the same intuition last {disfmarker} last {disfmarker} last week .PhD D: So .Just seems sort of complex .PhD E: Yeah .Postdoc B: I think it 's {disfmarker} to start with it 's s your {disfmarker} your idea of simplifying , starting with something that {pause} you can see {pause} eh you knowwithout the {pause} extra {pause} layers of {disfmarker}PhD D: Right . Cuz if energy doesn't matter there , like {disfmarker} I don't think this is true , but what ifPhD E: To study individual ?Postdoc B: Sorry , what?PhD D: Hmm ?PhD E: To study individual ?Postdoc B: Well , you {disfmarker} you {disfmarker} you don't have to study everybody individuallyPhD D: Well , to study the simplest case to get rid of extra{disfmarker}PhD E: The {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} But {disfmarker} Consider {disfmarker}Postdoc B: but {pause} just simple case and the one that has the lot of data associated with it .PhD D:Right . Cuz what if it 's the case and I don't think this is true {disfmarker}Grad A: That was a great overlap by the way .PhD D: What if it 's the case that when two people overlap they equate their {disfmarker} youknow , there 's a {pause} conservation of energy and everybody {disfmarker} both people talk more softly ? I don't think this happens at all .Postdoc B: Or {disfmarker} or what if what if the equipment {disfmarker}what if the equipment adjusts somehow ,PhD D: Or they get louder .Postdoc B: there 's some equalizing in there ?PhD D: Yeah or {disfmarker}Professor C: Uh , no we don't have that .PhD D: I mean .Grad A: Well , but{disfmarker} But I think that 's what I was saying about different types of overlap .Postdoc B: OK .Professor C: But .Postdoc B: Saturation .PhD D: There are {disfmarker} there are different types , and within thosetypes , like as Jose was saying , that {pause} sounded like a backchannel overlap , meaning the kind that 's {pause} a friendly encouragement , like \" Mm - hmm . \" , \" Great ! \" , \" Yeah ! \"PhD E: Yeah .PhD D: And itdoesn't take {disfmarker} you don't take the floor . Um , but , some of those , as you showed , I think can be discriminated by the duration of the overlap .PhD E: Yeah .PhD D: So . It {disfmarker} Actually the s newstudent , Don , who um Adam has met , and he was at one of our meetings {disfmarker} He 's {pause} getting his feet wet and then he 'll be starting again {pause} in mid - January . He 's interested in trying todistinguish the types of overlap . I don't know if he 's talked with you yet . But in sort of honing in on these different typesPhD E: Yeah . I don't consi Now I don't consider that possibility .PhD D: and {disfmarker} So"}
{"doc_id":"doc_70","qid":"","text":"Marketing: It's Play-Doh .Project Manager: Play-Doh's edible . Did you know that ? It's definitely {disfmarker}Marketing: Because kids {disfmarker} yeah .Industrial Designer: I used to eat it .User Interface: I've , I'vedefinitely eaten it before . I didn't know was edible . {vocalsound} {gap} .Project Manager: Yeah . It's it's chew proof . {vocalsound}Marketing: But um , it's it's made edible 'cause , yeah . It's made edible 'cause kidseat it ,Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: and if it's wasn't edible then {disfmarker} Well , normal babies . {vocalsound}User Interface: Actually that makes sense , because I remember like , peopl I dunno if my Momever did it but I remember other people's Moms making like home-made Play-Doh where you just like make the {gap} colouring and make some sort of sort of dough .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Oh yeah it is ,yeah . Oh yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Right .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Everybody everybody ready ?Industrial Designer: Yep .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay , let's have yourum {disfmarker} let's get {gap} have the uh presentation ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: We've got some {gap} .Industrial Designer: We've got a cool prototype .User Interface: Yeah , it's prettyexciting . So , everything uh that we wanted we wanted it to be ergonomic and to be made out of rubber , very simple and easy to use ,Industrial Designer: Double curved .Project Manager: Nice .User Interface: yeah ,double curved ,Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: um but also something that was gonna jump out at people , something that would be different uh , separate it from the other remotes out on the market . So uh Ithink if you put this in the palm of your hand , you'll see what a nice thing we have going here .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: That is cool .User Interface: So , basically , if you hold it like that , the one onyour thumb , yeah , {vocalsound} the thumb button is the power button .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .User Interface: Your index finger is channel up , middle finger is channel down , ring finger is volume up, your pinkie is volume down .Marketing: What's the big blue thing ?User Interface: That's the lock button , has a L_ L_ on itMarketing: Oh cool .User Interface: and then the M_ is a mute button . And then it also hasdigitProject Manager: {gap} what button ? Um . Oh mute .User Interface: For muting the uh {disfmarker}Marketing: And mute .User Interface: Um and then then you can also {disfmarker} there's a numeric keypad onthe top so you can key directly to the to the channel if you want .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: So it's really basic functionalities as far as what keys are available , but we think it'svery comfortable and very innovative and it looks different .Project Manager: That certainly does .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: So all the , I mean the important keys are right at your f f you know right at uhat a convenient place for you to to access them .Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: Which is ant anti-R_S_I_ .User Interface: So you don't you {disfmarker} Yeah . It should be .Project Manager: Mm .UserInterface: And it's also conformable to the size of your hand . I mean if that's too big , it's a rubber remote , so you can , you knowProject Manager: Yeah . 'S great .User Interface: change that . So d does that uh what{disfmarker} mesh with what you guys were hoping and for and expecting or does it {disfmarker}Marketing: Oh it's so cute .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I have one thing about it , but it's asmall thing , but it'd mean we'd have to make a right-handed one and a left-handed one .Industrial Designer: Oh right , yeah .User Interface: Ah , that's good thinking , yeah .Project Manager: But , that's I don't seewhy that's not possible .User Interface: Yeah , if we build rocket ships why can't we build left-handed and right-handed uh remotes .Project Manager: Yeah . {gap} They make left-handed scissors , you know .{vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah , I didn't I didn't think about that , but I'd {disfmarker} yeah , {gap} .Marketing: Yeah , but then but then you can learn to use your right h like I was just thinking ifthere's left-handers and right-handers in the family , what , they have two remotes ?Project Manager: Yes sIndustrial Designer: Yeah , I know I know people who have left-handed and right-handed people in the familyand they all use the computer {vocalsound} for the whole {disfmarker} the same computer the fes family and they have a mouse , and everybody is using right-handed mouse .Project Manager: Mm . Sure . Sure.Marketing: Yeah , I'm sure they'll be able to {disfmarker}User Interface: Uh-huh .Marketing: I mean it's only pressing buttons , you don't have to do anything , you know , extraordinary . I think everybody can press abutton with their left and right hand so {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Imagine d are you right handed ?Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Imagine you're doing it with your left hand , Idon't think it's too {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah , it's not {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: But we can have both uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah . Have them in stock .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Make 'em more appealing as well .Project Manager: But um other than that , I mean uh and that's um , you know , that's just something , I think I think it's great , yeah , great idea .User Interface: Do youthink it says {vocalsound} R_R_ ?Industrial Designer: {gap} I think it does . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I think it's , well , if the R_R_ motto is , we bring fashion to to electronics , I'dsay that could be quite fashionable .User Interface: Fashion to electronics . Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah . And it's got the b the black and yellow and blue .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah.User Interface: Plus red , which is sort of a a fruit and vegetable uh uh .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah .Marketing: {gap} . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} There you go .UserInterface: So that's that's {vocalsound} our end of things wha uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah , very good , yeah .User Interface: That's {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's come up with what we've you know ,the things that's what we've {disfmarker} what we were looking at doing , hasn't it , {gap} all seems to be there .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Well done .Marketing: And all the playing around is uh{disfmarker}Project Manager: Um before we move on {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah , I'm just {disfmarker} do you wanna plug in ?Project Manager: I need that cable .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Thank you .Yeah . Um . One thing I do need to do {disfmarker} we need to look at , is the costs .User Interface: The costs , was that what you said ?Industrial Designer: Play-Doh is very cheap . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well, yeah . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: {gap} um {disfmarker}Marketing: Play-Doh won't last very long everybody'll go like , oops , it's gone . {vocalsound}{vocalsound}User Interface: But it's edible .Marketing: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Chew proof .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Well , they'll buy more of them if you eat them , {gap} .UserInterface: That was the main criteria from the last meeting , it had to be chew proof .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah . Uh right . {vocalsound} Okay , now I think we'll do this {disfmarker} Icould do {disfmarker} you know , I can do this o on my own or I could do it with you ,Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Oh ho-ho .Project Manager: but it's just easy enough to go through it with you , so we'regoing for the kinetic power .Industrial Designer: Yep .Project Manager: {vocalsound} And the electronics , we decided on it being just a simple , the easiest thing that's inside it . Ooh .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Project Manager: So {disfmarker} the case , we've gone for the double curved . Um and it's made out of rubber . {vocalsound} The interface is push-buttons . And button supplements well they're in diffspecial colours , aren't they ?Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: So {gap} special colours .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: It's better for {disfmarker}Project Manager: Special form , yeah , they're a special form therein shapes and stuff .User Interface: Yeah , I mean , {vocalsound} these these ones on the side are curved kind of , so {disfmarker}Marketing: And special material .Project Manager: Yep . Yeah . Um . Are they madeout of any special material ?Industrial Designer: Rubber .Project Manager: No they're not . They're not made out of wood or titanium or rubber or anything , they're just simple {disfmarker}User Interface: The buttonsare rubber .Marketing: Well they're rubber , aren't they ?Project Manager: Okay . Right .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: So let's see if that comes within budget . And it does . That is gonna cost uh{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {gap} .Marketing: We're under budget .Project Manager: Yeah . That's gonna cost ten ten Euro seventy cents a unit to make . And our target was it had to come in at under twelve fifty.User Interface: That's cool . Yeah . Yeah .Project Manager: So ,User Interface: And we're actua actually making a better profit than we expected .Project Manager: this is all very very good . The bosses will be verypleased .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay , let's just save this so I can e-mail it to you . Uh .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Save it in {gap} save it in the uh {vocalsound}my documents .Marketing: It's already saved , I think .Project Manager: Splendid . Okay . So uh , that's {gap} done with this with this um doodah , so you're {gap} . Gonna do {disfmarker} what you were gonna do,Marketing: Thank you . Mm .Project Manager: your evaluation .Marketing: Oh , yeah . This is where we all get to {vocalsound} I get to write on the , oops , on the board . Right .Project Manager:{vocalsound}Marketing: Oh . 'S function {disfmarker}Project Manager: F_ eight .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: {gap} I love the smell of that Play-Doh .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah ,Project Manager:{vocalsound} I cou {gap} . {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm .User Interface: have some have some .Marketing: Okay . So , {vocalsound} evaluation . We're gonna do it all together so we evaluate each criteria . I've gotthe criterias . And we have to do it on a scale of one to seven , one being true , so it's it's more like it's {disfmarker} fits the criteria , and seven being as in it doesn't fit the criteria . And the criterias are , and I'll drawthis up on the board {disfmarker} {vocalsound} so we have a box {disfmarker} {gap} . And this is false , this is just like to keep you informed . So seven's here and one's here and then you've got in the middle .{vocalsound} So the first criteria . Do you all get what we're doing ?Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Okay , cool . Okay , first criteria , look and feel . So the does remote look andfeel fashionable to what we talked about ? As it {disfmarker} is it colour-wise and is it spongy ?User Interface: Mm .Marketing: So what mark should we give for that ?Project Manager: I would give it a seven .UserInterface: Yeah .Marketing: As in it's not .Project Manager: Oh sorry , one , d yeah .User Interface: Oh , sorry , one . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: A one .Marketing: A one a one . So I'll just write criteria criteriaone we get one . Second criteria , new technology . Have we implemented new technology ? As in the new high-tech {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Well , the kinetic thing , yeah .Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah . That was our main technological innovation w every everything else was fairly simple , but the fact that we used the kinetic energy was new .Project Manager: {gap} .Marketing: So it's {gap} .So we'll give it a {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Well so the um {disfmarker}User Interface: It's ergonomic ,Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: but that's not {disfmarker} that's that's a design that's a desthat's a design thing , yeah .Project Manager: Yeah , but that's not a technological thing , that's another thing , i that's another marketing thing .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Yeah . Yeah . True .Project Manager: So onthe technical side of it it {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah . I'd say it's about a a twoish ?Industrial Designer: Two .User Interface: It's about in the mid in the middle somewhere ,Marketing: Two .User Interface: maybe ,yeah , I dunno .Marketing: Three .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: Maybe three , yeah .Marketing: {gap} three . So criteria three is is it easy to use ?Project Manager: Easy to use .Marketing: I think it's a one, I think .Project Manager: I'd say it's I wouldn't {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: not if you're left-handed it's not . I would give it a I would give it a two ,User Interface: Mm .Marketing: Two ,ProjectManager: 'cause i i it i it i it is more geared for right-handed people than left-handed people , but {disfmarker}Marketing: so it's {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: But if we make aright-handed and a left-handed then ?User Interface: If we're gonna have one left-handed and one right-handed then I would give it a one , but otherwise otherwise a two .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Give it a t give it a two .Marketing: Yeah , okay . {vocalsound} 'Kay , criteria four is costs . {gap}Project Manager: Cost . It's come in under budget .Marketing:{vocalsound} 's great .Project Manager: So that's a definite one .User Interface: Yeah . That was great .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Amount of buttons .Marketing: Like the amount of buttons ,Project Manager:Contains only the necessary buttons .Marketing: 'cause people like a lot le like {disfmarker} So it's a one ?Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Um criteria six . R_S_I_ isit good against ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yes s yeah .Marketing: Yes . Very good .Project Manager: So it's anti-R_S_I_ .Marketing: It's one . And criteria seven , which is the last one , does it get lost?Industrial Designer: It's yellow .Marketing: Is it easy to get lost ?Project Manager: I don't think it's gonna get lost easily .User Interface: {vocalsound} It is very bright , yeah .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: No ? But it is smallish .Industrial Designer: Two .User Interface: It's not the kinda thing that's gonna slip like between a couch cushion or something , you know . Maybe it will . Uh .IndustrialDesigner: TMarketing: Mm . I think i it would , could be , could get lost .User Interface: You think it could lost {disfmarker}Project Manager: {gap} two .Marketing: Mm . Yeah .User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: Imean it {disfmarker}Marketing: I mean it's not fully it's not fully {disfmarker} like you can't say {disfmarker}Project Manager: No , I meanMarketing: I mean , it's not a one , definitely .Project Manager: I mean , youcould still flush it down the toilet theoretically , but {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay . Yeah , anything , I mean . Okay . It's bigger than the average mobile , I guess .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: But , yeah , it canget lost .Marketing: The mobiles get lost all the time .User Interface: Yeah . Okay , yeah , two is fine .Marketing: But then you ring 'em and you find them . {vocalsound} So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm . Mm.User Interface: Yeah , yeah .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Yeah . So , that's that . So that's the evaluation , so I'd say {disfmarker} Yay .Project Manager: Alright it's all all systems go .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound} We've , we've done well .Marketing: It's like {vocalsound} {gap} like a number one . Um .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Number one product .User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Wecan't fail .Marketing: All done , thanks . We fitted all the criterias . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: {gap} .Marketing: Yeah , so {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well done ,Reissa .Marketing: So that's that one .Project Manager: Okay , I I think um I just wanna put in as Project Manager the you know , little bit of praise for everybody here for how they've worked on it ,User Interface:{vocalsound}Project Manager: you know , both individually and as a team . You know you've w everyone's come up with their own individual ideas in their own different departments , um and then come together andworked in , you know , integrally , you know , at the right times , psp , you know , especially you two .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: That's all , you know , gone very very wellUser Interface: Yeah .ProjectManager: and and and be you know , has been good communication going on . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah , during our design I mean there was some s some heated heated discussion ,Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}User Interface: but we we kept {disfmarker} we tried to keep it cool and andProject Manager: {vocalsound} Did you have to go down to the the corporate squash court and bash a few balls about ?{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: just just {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Well .User Interface: {vocalsound} We just had to we just had to squeeze our product a little bit and{disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: You know {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Fantastic.Industrial Designer: It is {gap} .User Interface: Now you guys have been a a great team . Think we're the we're the envy of all the of all the other R_R_ teams , {gap} .Marketing: {gap} been cool .Project Manager: Ithink {disfmarker} SoMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I I , you know , and I think we've co we have come we've come up with something new , something that hasn't been done before , we haven't{disfmarker} we're not just rehashing an old design .Marketing: In four diff in in four meetings .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Funny , all designer meetings could be this quick .Project Manager: You know , maybethis isn't a simulation , maybe this is actually {disfmarker} so it's like Sony or someone like that they're they're just , yeah , {gap} they get {gap} {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah I thinkthey're actually trying to find ideas for a ideal remote . {vocalsound}Marketing: They're using our ideas .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah . Yeah , {gap} two years' time this will be on the market.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Ex exactly that productMarketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: um thum {disfmarker} we'll go , yeah , we designed that and no-one willbelieve us .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} But um {disfmarker}User Interface: So at this stage , I mean , is this the last meeting of the project ? We don't uh haveanother one after it's gone gone to marke market or something ?Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: No ,Marketing: {gap}Project Manager: I think when this meeting's finished like officially , there b we'll get a uhquestionnaire to fill in .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Y Oh really ?User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Or six , uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Just start summarising now .{vocalsound} You can reply to the same message .Project Manager: I haven't got message .Marketing: See summary , there . If you just reply to that one .User Interface: So there's no way to like predict what our{disfmarker} 'Cause we had a {disfmarker} we originally had a {vocalsound} {disfmarker} As far as our financial uh um goals , we had a specific number for profits that we wanted . It was fifty mil fifty million{disfmarker}Marketing: Was it was it fifty or five ?User Interface: I don't remember . But there's not a way to compute that , I mean , since we saved on the on the production cost , do we know how much we'remaking on profit ?Project Manager: It gets handed over to another department .Marketing: Depends how much we sell .User Interface: Uh .Project Manager: What our what our project was was to come up with theproduct , basically .User Interface: Hmm .Project Manager: {gap} the for the {disfmarker} and just basically is it it come {disfmarker} can {disfmarker} is it within budget . When it c when it comes to all the otherthings of how to sell it and , you know , the b the profits and all that that's other departments {disfmarker} it's another team that actually work out the mai the {disfmarker}User Interface: But we have a vested"}
{"doc_id":"doc_71","qid":"","text":"Industrial Designer: {gap} .User Interface: Hello {vocalsound} . 'Kay .Project Manager: You all saw the newsflash ?Industrial Designer: It's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Or you got the same message ?Marketing:Yeah I I just saw it one minute ago .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah sorry .Industrial Designer: I don't know .Marketing: When I uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I didn't see it yet I think .User Interface:Newsflash ? D did I miss something ?Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah . Yeah I received an email so I thought I I can't mail you so I thought I'd just drop it in the folder , but{disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah pretty much .Industrial Designer: Hey what's wrong with my computer ?User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: Is it unlocked ?User Interface: No .Industrial Designer: {gap} .Marketing:Mm . Yeah that's my presentation . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Woah . I uh kind of opened it {gap} .User Interface: Mm .Industrial Designer: Huh ?Marketing: Mm ?Project Manager: Uh {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: What the {disfmarker}Marketing: Oh right .User Interface: I think you have to uh change your desktop uhProject Manager: Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: size .Marketing: Ooh .{vocalsound}Project Manager: 'Kay . Everybody ready ?Industrial Designer: Not really .Marketing: Well {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Sorry .Project Manager: No no no . Yes yes yes .User Interface: {gap} computeris uh not functioning ?Marketing: Alright .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay .Industrial Designer: Okay . Where do I find this ? I'm not so g display huh ?User Interface: Uh display .Marketing: {vocalsound}UserInterface: And then uh settings ?Industrial Designer: Appearance ?Marketing: Huh .User Interface: Mm I'm not sure I {gap} .Marketing: {vocalsound} You read the newsflash ? {vocalsound}Project Manager: 'Kay . Canwe get startedUser Interface: No .Industrial Designer: No what was it about ?Marketing: Hmm .Project Manager: or is there some pressing issue ?Industrial Designer: Yeah my computer is not functioning properly.Project Manager: Oh no pressing .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Did you plug in the power cable when you come back ?Industrial Designer: Yeah yeah . No butmy screen is reduced in size . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah . That's difficult . Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: What ? {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Feedback .Marketing: Hmm .User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay .Marketing: {gap} alt delete . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound} Format . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Format save .Marketing: {gap} . So it doesn't draw the attention away .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: This is dreadful .UserInterface: I made uh uh my own map .Project Manager: Oh yeah sure .Industrial Designer: No not this , but the task .User Interface: It's a {disfmarker}Project Manager: You have Playstation also ?User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound} No that's okay . No I just flapped it , closed it , took it here and then this happened . Ah . Uh {disfmarker} where was it ? In settings ? Okay . Alright . Thank you.Project Manager: Huh .Industrial Designer: Do you guys like your tasks ?User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I spent a lot of time thinking about what I was gonna do and then acouple of minutes before this I get my function you know the information that I need .User Interface: Yeah wa wa you actually {disfmarker} Yeah . But it it's not clear what you have to to to type uh type in yourpresentation .Industrial Designer: So frustrating .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: So {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah . I I had a whole idea and then just was typing it and then oh . I have to do that so switch.Industrial Designer: Yeah {disfmarker} Yeah exactly . This presentation is mainly based on my own ideas 'cause I hadn't time to intergrate tha the information yet so {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Mm.Industrial Designer: Really annoying .Project Manager: Okay . So there we are again .Marketing: By your humble P_M_ .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay this is the agenda . Umwe have three presentations , I heard .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Really . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah really . {vocalsound} So who wants to start ?Marketing: Yeah that's fine {gap} .IndustrialDesigner: Yeah .Marketing: We have to start it right away ? {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah . Uh this is you ?Marketing: Functional ? Yeah functional requirements .Project Manager: 'Kay .Marketing: Alright . I'mgonna talk about functional requirements . Um {disfmarker} Well uh some research has be done uh has been done . Uh observing of one hundred uh subjects in the usability lab using a remote control . Uh and theyalso filled in a questionnaire . The findings were um , well you can see them for yourself . They disliked the look-and-feel of current remotes controls . {vocalsound} Users think they're ugly . Um {vocalsound} they donot match the the operating behaviour of the users . So they they d they don't match what they want to have on it . Um {vocalsound} they are often lost somewhere in the room . Um it takes too much time to learnhow to use a new remote control . And they're bad for R_S_I_ . {vocalsound} I don't know uh how a user can reach that but okay . Um {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: TsMarketing: there is also uh was also someresearch on uh the most relevant and and and irrelevant uh f functions . Uh most irrelevant and less used were audio settings , mono , stereo , uh pitch , bass . Um screen settings for brightness and colour and stuff likethat . Um but they are used . I mean the {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So they do need to be in the {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah they do need to be on the on the remote control .IndustrialDesigner: Alright .Marketing: I mean if you can't control the the sound settings {disfmarker} I mean if you dislike a very uh loud bass or something , you you need to change that .Project Manager: {vocalsound} {gap}often .Marketing: So um yeah we have to .Industrial Designer: By the way my T_V_ doesn't have an equ equaliser butMarketing: We c we c Yeah I mean w we can't {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Nextgeneration does . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {disfmarker} okay .Marketing: my my T_V_ has ,Industrial Designer: No . {vocalsound} Alright .Marketing: but we we can leave them uh away . Uh most relevant ,uh most used functions , uh they speak for themselves I guess . Uh power button , uh channel , volume selection . Uh teletext but we can skip that because I saw the newsflash , and teletext is so outdated that it it's ishould not be used uh any more in the future .Project Manager: N not used anymore .Marketing: So forget this one .User Interface: Okay .Marketing: Uh channel settings , so for programming uh your channels in in theright order .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: By the way where did you guys get that newsflash from ?User Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound} I was wondering uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I didn't getanything .Marketing: Yeah , {vocalsound} on on the project uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah . Not by mail . I receiv the mail but you don't . So {disfmarker}User Interface: But you you've got more informationthan {disfmarker} uh .Marketing: No so it's a text file n in the project folder . So teletext can be skipped .Project Manager: That's in the presentation , so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Alright .Marketing: Um therewas some research on new features in a remote control . Uh about an L_C_D_ screen uh and speech recognition . Well we got an update for the for the audience . Or the the the targeted group . So it's above forty Iguess .Project Manager: Uh below I believe .Marketing: The new product ? Or below {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah below forty .Marketing: because that's pretty relevant .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Ithought I read a {disfmarker}Project Manager: Our current customers are in the age group forty plus .Marketing: Yeah ?Project Manager: And the new product should reach new markets , which is the customers belowforty .Marketing: Below ? Okay well {vocalsound}User Interface: But where did you get uh that information ?Project Manager: That's in a newsflash .Marketing: that's that's in the newsflaProject Manager:{vocalsound}User Interface: Okay . {vocalsound}Marketing: okay that's a good to know . Um because you see see a clear distinction between the age groups , concerning the features .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing:I mean uh above forty people are not so interested uh not so interested in a screen or speech recognition . Uh but below that age they uh they pretty much are . So I think we can build that in . Um {disfmarker} Yeahwell we can skip this part as well , because I thought I read above forty so we could skip the features , but we just have to build them in because uh they find it very interesting . Um well we have to keep all the classicfunctions but make the buttons as user-friendly as possible . Um and and also there's {disfmarker} so not only the design of the bus uh buttons but o how you can push them , and stuff like that . So the physical uhaspect of it . Um {disfmarker} And I think {disfmarker} and certainly for for the for the lower age groups , uh nice design , which uh does not make the remote control {gap} in your room .User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: It's it's actually a part of your interior , of of your design in your room . So it's {vocalsound} the people can say , well what's that , well that's my remote control , so it's d it has to look nice and feel nice ,and and have all the functions that uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah . But it also needs to have corporate identity .Marketing: Yeah so the the logo has to beProject Manager: Present and the colours .Marketing:uh present yeah , and the colours as well .Project Manager: {vocalsound} So we can't change much of that .Industrial Designer: Do we have {disfmarker} uh yeah {gap} .Marketing: Yeah so but I I don't think that'sthat's a problem because the thing has to have a colour anyway , and most of the times there is a brand present on it .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . Yeah . Yeah .Marketing: So I think that's not gonna gonnaaffect it very uh very much .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Well that are the the consequences uh on a marketing uh part .Project Manager: {vocalsound} 'Kay .Industrial Designer: Alright .Marketing: Yes .UserInterface: Okay .Project Manager: It's open already so you can use {gap} toMarketing: {gap} .Project Manager: find yours .User Interface: Mm . It's {disfmarker}Project Manager: F_ five .User Interface: F_ five . Okay.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Go Jurgen .User Interface: Oh . What is this ?Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Oh no . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: How do I uh{disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} You pressed alt F_ four ? {vocalsound}User Interface: No no no . I pressed the mouse button .Project Manager: Oh great . {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: It's {disfmarker} th that's the self-destruct button .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah .User Interface: Yeah . Okay .Project Manager: Uh maybe you can do it from your computer sotalk us through it .User Interface: Okay . Um if you all go stand around uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah . Just {disfmarker} yeah .Project Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound}User Interface: Computer {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: Alright .Marketing: Sure .User Interface: Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Project Manager: That's nice . {vocalsound}User Interface: No .Project Manager: F_ five . Yeah .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: Okay.Marketing: Alright .User Interface: I uh had uh two examples .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Um this one is the the yeah the advanced one with a lot of options and functions and buttons .ProjectManager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: This the easy oneMarketing: Yeah .User Interface: I think we have to to combine them . And uh yeah merge the best functions of all examples .Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Um but yeah the the age is uh under forty ?Project Manager: The mm yeah .Marketing: Yeah and and and marketing researchstated that that that kind of users are not afraid of of a lot of functions .User Interface: So we {disfmarker} Okay so so we have the option for more functions .Marketing: So not not too much but {disfmarker} yeah.User Interface: Um {disfmarker} yeah .Industrial Designer: And we do have to integrate the screen and the the speech {disfmarker}Marketing: And the speech recognition yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah.User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: alright .User Interface: Uh yeah this this one we can remove for kids . It's just only for adults so uh we can uh use some advanced options . But {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeahfrom age of sixteen so yeah .User Interface: Yeah but I prefer we we uh use the the basic options uh yeah . We have to to make them very easy so for just uh zapping around the channels you can just push one button.Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: But if you want to to use your your video recorder or something else , you should use use an uh an advanced option.Marketing: Yeah but uh the the newsflash also stated that it should control only one device , only your television .User Interface: Okay one device .Project Manager: Yeah . So n it's very easy .User Interface: Okay . Ididn't see {gap} .Marketing: So wProject Manager: Now yeah it's okay .User Interface: {vocalsound} Okay and I also uh yeah . W yeah .Marketing: So there are not extra options in this case , but uh{disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: We have to make it fashionable . Like you uh said uh before .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: Uh yeah the basic functions . Um yeah onlyuse a extra function if they are really needed .Project Manager: Yeah so maybe you can hide them or something .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah well what what we can do with the screen is isall the the configuration options , you can put that in the screen .Project Manager: Yeah you make a screen menu or something .Marketing: And the and the {disfmarker} yeah screen menu to to to uh to do that,Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: and then the basic function just on the device itself .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: So it looks very simple and all the advanced features are hiddenin the screen , uh with a clear menu .Project Manager: Yeah and the other oth other uh functionality is the screen .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: What does the screen do ?User Interface: {vocalsound} Did Iuh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Alright .Marketing: Uh . {vocalsound} What are {disfmarker} whProject Manager: Yeah . It's low power .User Interface: did I break it ? {vocalsound}Marketing: What {gap} .ProjectManager: So what does the screen do ? They said they needed it but what does it do ? What do they want with the screen ?User Interface: For for the advanced functions I think .Project Manager: Yeah that's what wemake it up .Marketing: Yeah well it {gap} yeah it didn'tProject Manager: So but what did the marketing {disfmarker}Marketing: it didn't say what they want to do with the screen .Project Manager: No .Marketing: Well I, my guess is it's it's pretty handy for advanced uh advanced functions .Project Manager: Yeah okay it's handy . With no predefined uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Like searching for channels and {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: Ah look .Marketing: Yeah searching for channels , programming them .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: We have your uh {disfmarker} oh never mind . {vocalsound}Project Manager: We're backonline . {vocalsound}User Interface: Okay . That's uh {disfmarker} I'm al I'm almost finished so {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Um the {disfmarker} we have to to towatch out for the {disfmarker} i if we make it f very fashionable , it it the functional functionality will go down . So we have to make uh a compromise between functionality and fashional fashionableProject Manager:Mm-hmm . Content and form .User Interface: yeah content and form .Industrial Designer: {gap} .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound} Now that that was uh was the end .ProjectManager: {vocalsound} That was the end . Okay .User Interface: Yes .Industrial Designer: Okay .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Well my presentation is a bit uh sucky . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Well you can improvise right ?Project Manager: Uh which one is it ? Technical functions ?Industrial Designer: Yeah a little bit .Project Manager: This one ?Industrial Designer: Uh no . No no . {vocalsound}ProjectManager: Functional requirements ?Industrial Designer: Yeah I think that would be it then . {gap}Project Manager: No .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: You didn't put it in ? Or {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: I have no idea .Marketing: So we we can go for {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: That w {gap} .Project Manager: {gap} it's not really English . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Let me check . I know.Project Manager: Uh kick off . Oh working design I got it .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: So we can go for the look-and-feel of the the left example , and then a screen on top of it .Project Manager: Here you go.Industrial Designer: Alright how do I uh skip pages ?Project Manager: Just uh press uh {disfmarker} yeah . Yeah .Industrial Designer: The keys yeah ?Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Alright . Um yeah well I wasworking on this before I got my information . So I was just working off the top of my head and using my colin common knowledge about uh remote controls .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: And well the info on the website which came too late .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Um so I didn't really know what kind of functions we had to put into it yet.Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: So uh uh this is basically an overview of what we discussed in our last uh meeting . Those were my uh starting points .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer:Uh I was working on a s yeah on a schedule , and I was supposed to do it like this . But um yeah then uh the information came and it was kind of exact with all the steps in the remote control that I had to follow , so Iwas trying to organise them for myself .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: And then make theProject Manager: Design yeah .Industrial Designer: thedesign , a the actual design ,Marketing: Design ? Yeah .Industrial Designer: but I never came around to do that . So I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to say about it .Marketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: I meaneverything speaks for itself I guess . Mean you press a button um {vocalsound} the it tru goes , it sends a signal to a chip ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: which uh translates it into infrared signal ofcertin spatial frequencies .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Yeah frequency . Yeah .Industrial Designer: And uh or temporal fr frequencies actually . And then uh through a uh transformer , it the signal getsboosted and then sent to the to the receiver on the T_V_Project Manager: Yeah decoder .Industrial Designer: and the T_V_ will translate it into a function . Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Yeah well this was actually{vocalsound} all I got around to do .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Blank . Yeah okay .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .Industrial Designer: I mean I dunno if I'm too slow for thisstuff , but uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Work harder .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Okay shou should we make a list of the of all the functions we want uh {disfmarker}Marketing:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah . Whatever .Project Manager: Yeah . Uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah we want to incorporate in uh into it .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: 'Kay . Um for those that didn'tsee yet um the basic new requirements of the management were no teletext , only for T_V_ . Uh it should be designed for a use g uh group below forty , but I don't think it's w wrong if we can uh target the current"}
{"doc_id":"doc_72","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Okay . Uh door is closed . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well , let's begin . Because if we have as much time as the last uh meeting , we'll have to hurry up.Marketing: I'm listening .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Right .Project Manager: Um well I'll start with the presentation again , the agenda .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Great .ProjectManager: Yo . So . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} This one I think .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh yeah . Well alright . Um well , I'll show you the notes . It's notas uh interesting as it should be because we just uh had the meeting ,Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: but I'll show them . We'll get your presentations again on the conceptual design . Um {disfmarker} Thenwe'll have to dec decide about the control , the remote control concepts . I've put a f uh a file in the project management folder , which says exactly uh what kind of decisions we should take .Industrial Designer:Mm-hmm .Project Manager: So {vocalsound} this time we exactly know what to decide about .Marketing: {vocalsound} Alright , great .Project Manager: And then we'll close again .Industrial Designer: Alright .ProjectManager: Uh {disfmarker} Well these are some examples , but we'll talk about them later . We'll {vocalsound} first look at your uh presentations . Alright ?Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Walter willuh start again this time ?Marketing: Yeah , great .Project Manager: Yo .Marketing: Alright , Trendwatch .Project Manager: 'Kay .Marketing: {gap}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Right . I will speak about uhlatest trends trends , latest fashion updates , and uh things we must not do .Project Manager: 'Kay .Marketing: Uh the trends . {vocalsound} It's very important that uh the control is fancy looking and good uh feeling .Uh this because of our last model was very functional , but {vocalsound} it uh people didn't like that , so our new mo model must be very good-looking . That's uh something you uh have to take a look at .IndustrialDesigner: Mm-hmm . Alright .Marketing: And uh the feeling has to be very great . Also the menus and things like that they have to they have to feel great .Industrial Designer: Alright .Marketing: Um there's a minus uhtwo times here , because this is the most important point . This is uh two times as less important ,Project Manager: Less . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: and uh same for this one .{vocalsound} Um , technological technological innovations , that's uh regarded very highly too .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Uh such as an uh L_C_D_ screen , uh speech uh acknowledgement , as we uhtalked about earlier .Project Manager: Well , yeah .Marketing: So we have to have uh something like that , like we uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: L_C_D_ and our uh our fronts .Marketing: Right . {vocalsound} Uhthe last point is easy to use . Well I think that uh speaks for s for itself . I don't know who's uh who's going to look at that .Industrial Designer: Easy to use ?Project Manager: Well , easy to use uh s is a bit uhcontradictionary with the first uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah ?Industrial Designer: I think that's your taUser Interface: {gap}Project Manager: Functional is not an issue , and then easy to use .Marketing: Yeah , Iknow .Project Manager: Well we have to choose one of them . {vocalsound}Marketing: I think we have to go for the first one .Project Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: It's the mostimportant one . So {gap} we have to uh take that one .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: So it it {vocalsound} it isn't very important that {vocalsound} that it works easy .User Interface: Well something fancy lookingcan be can be easy to use .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} But {vocalsound} it has to look great .Project Manager: Yeah . We'll we'll look at uh {gap} .Industrial Designer: You {disfmarker}Yeah . Yeah , yeah ,Marketing: We'll see . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: you can make a very complicated uh uh remote anyway , so ease of use {disfmarker} {vocalsound} It's not a very comp complicated device.Marketing: Yeah , right . But the most important thing is that it looks great and people say {gap} wow , that's real great uh great concept .Project Manager: 'Kay .Industrial Designer: Alright .Marketing: Alright . Uhthese are the new colours of this year .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: So it must be very bright , very colourful .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: People like this .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: So we we have to think uh in this direction .Project Manager: So {disfmarker}Marketing:So i set your mind to it .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well {disfmarker}Marketing: Findings ? Fashion update ? Fruit and vegetables are cool .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh you think?Marketing: I am told . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: The group we are targeting is uh very pleased with fruit and vegetables .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: So {vocalsound} we we we might cons consider in front of uh in in that sort of uh way .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah , well {disfmarker}User Interface: Bananas.Marketing: Uh furthermore uh material , that's your part , should be very strong . I was thinking of something like uh {vocalsound} well uh iron plate over it ,Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: maybe in a colour orsomething ,Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: that looks so f really flashy but it it is also strong .Industrial Designer: {gap}Project Manager: BMarketing: And that's uh also for the younger public .Project Manager: Wellthe the handy thing about our fronts is that we can follow these trends e ev every year . Th this year it's fruits but next year it's it's something totally different .Marketing: Yeah , that's great .User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: But I think we can all make the the fronts of titanium or something uh really thin .Project Manager: Yes .Marketing: So it looks very heavy but you can still uh use it very easily .Project Manager: Yep , alright.Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: Well , the don'ts . Older people like dark colours and simple shapes . Well we don't want uh older people ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: we want young people .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound} {gap}Marketing: So uh we're gonna turn that around .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Alright .Marketing: We're gonna have real uh cool shapes and lots of colours . Right?Project Manager: Wood is popular . Aha .Marketing: Okay . We don't want wood .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah yeah yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah , among the old people , yeah .Marketing: Old people . So ,that's it for me .Project Manager: Alright . Nice , uh well {gap} show us .Industrial Designer: Right , I am going to tell you something about the components design . Uh again I have uh put up the specificationproperties . This uh so um uh the different uh components of the of of the device . And the materials ? Um I have heard several things , so I uh I'll have to change that on the way . But uh the case ? Uh I suggested uhin the previous meeting hard plastic . But uh as you indicated uh it should be strong .Marketing: Yeah , we should change that .Industrial Designer: It should feel strong . So maybe plastic is not uh sufficient .ProjectManager: Well maybe it it it is ,Industrial Designer: We should move to uh something {disfmarker}Project Manager: but it doesn't look strong . So maybe {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Well yeah . Y Hard plastic i isof course uh pretty pretty tough , but it doesn't have a really really tough look . So {disfmarker}Marketing: No no no .Project Manager: But we still have to look at our price of course . Because uh if we want an L_C_D_uh window etcetera uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah . Also {disfmarker} Yeah . Mm-hmm . But we'll return to that .Project Manager: Yeah ?Industrial Designer: Uh the buttons of course rubber , I thinkeveryone agrees . And electrical cables , copper is all pretty basic stuff . The chips made of silicon , I guess . I think that's the best uh way to do it .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: And infra infrared lLED is uh just a simple bulb .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Then I've uh {vocalsound} had a few findings , made a few findings . Uh the target audience product style . Um it's uh um generally the casethat uh senior and wealthy people above uh forty five years old uh like , as you said , uh particularly the traditional materials as such as wood and materials such as that . They also like straightforward shapes andluxurious style . But of course that's not our uh things this . So this is things we must not do .Project Manager: Yes .Industrial Designer: And then we have uh young uh and dynamic uh people , which is of course our uhgroup , the people we aim at . Um under forty five years old . Uh they like soft materials uh with primary colours . Soft materials is of course uh agai again a bit a contradiction with uh our uh material choice of what yousaid , that uh it should be hard an and and and and strong looking .Marketing: Mm . Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: But they like soft materials , uh so we might uh we have to consider that . And alsothey like curved round shapes . So not uh too formal like like uh the older people want . And if uh also a finding but not very ap applicable here , that sports and gaming devices such as uh discmans for jogging and thatthose kind of devices , gaming devices , should define the characteristics of the device . But uh since we don't have a really a sports or gaming device , so we don't really have to consider that .Project Manager: Sportsuh , they're uh that uh are accessible on on your L_C_D_ uh window uhUser Interface: Soccer fronts . {vocalsound} Mm .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {disfmarker} Huh ? {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:Mm .Project Manager: That's nice . {vocalsound}User Interface: Hmm .Project Manager: All the {gap} results ?Industrial Designer: Well I also have um several examples of uh styles ,Marketing: We keep coming backto the fronts . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: so you can get a clear picture of uh what I mean .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Uh{vocalsound} these are the basic uh older older peoples' stuff .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .Industrial Designer: It was not very uh interesting uh , very classicallooking ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound} Nai . Uh no .Industrial Designer: but that's n that's not what we want .User Interface: Hmm .Industrial Designer: We have these kind of things . I don't know whatexactly they are .Marketing: {vocalsound} Fruity . {vocalsound} Fruity .Industrial Designer: It looks like {disfmarker} Well you know uh you recognise the shapes ,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:it's very primary colours , uh bright colours and uh round shapes .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: You also uh {vocalsound} see uh this device , it's not very round and {disfmarker} Fruity of course .Yeah , it uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's t terrible .Industrial Designer: That's true .Project Manager: Alright .Industrial Designer: And uh well round shapes , primary colours .Project Manager:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: You can see it all here . And of course uh this famous device .Project Manager: Hmm ?Industrial Designer: I think as you know something uh some devices like this .Project Manager:Yeah , alright .Industrial Designer: So to give you an idea of uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Well it's got a strong look , this . Yeah .Industrial Designer: This has a strong look . Although it's plastic , it's it's grey to to to giveit iron look .Marketing: Yeah , it still has a strong look .Project Manager: Yeah . And it's round .Industrial Designer: That's uh {disfmarker}Marketing: But then you are losing your fruity colours .Industrial Designer:Yeah . Well we have to make a {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well you can make th th th that middle ring can you you can make another colour . So uh those kind of things you can you can combine .Marketing: That'strue .Industrial Designer: Well we can't really make a round uh a round remote control . I don't think that's very practical ,Project Manager: No , it isn't .Industrial Designer: but {disfmarker} But uh it's important to touh to think about the colour .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: Because if we make it grey or or silvery looking , it it does make it a lot more uh does make it looking a lot more stronger .Project Manager: Yes.Industrial Designer: 'Cause if you look at this , it it doesn't look very very strong ,Marketing: Yeah but the {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: becau But this is plastic , and and this too , but {disfmarker}Marketing: But itdoesn't have to look strong . The the results are , the feel of the material is expected to be strongy .Industrial Designer: The feel ? Uh alright .Marketing: The feel .Project Manager: So , if you tiIndustrial Designer: Well{disfmarker}User Interface: And it it doesn't have to be strong , also .Project Manager: Well {disfmarker}Marketing: Nah yeah the feel {disfmarker}Project Manager: You you {disfmarker} Maybe you should have uhsome some coloured titanium or something .User Interface: {vocalsound} Only the feel . {vocalsound}Project Manager: So it it looks pretty but it feels strong .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:Mm-hmm .Marketing: Right .User Interface: Oh .Industrial Designer: And I {disfmarker} Then I have some more findings . Um {vocalsound} uh about the energy energy source of the of the device ,Marketing: I agree.Industrial Designer: uh I uh suggest uh the basic battery . I uh got some other um uh uh energy sources of course . But solar energy is not very practical inside a house , because you don't have a have a lot of uh sun.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: And uh kinetic and and and dynamos are are not very practical , I think , for uh for a simple remote ,Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: that's a bit , oh , that's abit uh {disfmarker} That's a bit uh much .Project Manager: {vocalsound} {gap} No titanium . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: And I also suggest uh as a shape uh a double curved case.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Uh the disadvantage of that that you can use no titanium . That that's the information I received . If you use the curved case , uh a curved case , double curved thenyou can't use titanium .Project Manager: What do you exactly mean with double curved ?Industrial Designer: Now uh this uh to give it a more modern look .User Interface: {gap}Industrial Designer: And uh{vocalsound} now the the shape , yeah , {gap} a curved case . Um yeah I think uh sort of triangle-shaped bottom or something . Uh {gap} a more modern look not plain , long box style , but {disfmarker}Marketing:{vocalsound} I dunno .Project Manager: Double curved ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I'll draw it ,Project Manager: It it mean {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah . Yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah , wellokay . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: but maybe later .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} And it makes uh it gives it a more u user friendly shape , than if you have uh {gap} . Um anyway{disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Um f as uh for the buttons , simple push buttons . No uh otherwi uh no um difficult scroll things or some uh things like that ,because it makes more complex and expensive . And , uh as we agreed , we don't use a speaker or a sensor or um {vocalsound} uh speak uh speech uh controlled {vocalsound} device .Marketing: Yeah right .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Because it makes it also more complex and expensive . But we do use an L_C_D_ screen , so we uh we do have to consider uh of we have to use a more advanced chip ,which is more complex and expensive . But {disfmarker} It's worth the trouble I think ,Project Manager: Well {disfmarker}User Interface: The buttons can be made of an uh a soft material .Industrial Designer: because{disfmarker}User Interface: Because people like that .Project Manager: This soft material thing from uh {disfmarker} Yeah .Industrial Designer: Uh rubber is a soft material , I guess .User Interface: Yeah . Right . Yeah.Industrial Designer: Uh soft enough .Marketing: Yeah . Right .Industrial Designer: So that's uh basically what I want to talk about .Project Manager: Alright . Okay . We will take that . And then uh Mike ? Okay .UserInterface: Yeah . Well um nah the method um we will um include the buttons as we discussed uh earlier . Um an L_C_D_ s screen will be implemented . Um we must decide where , this meeting .Project Manager:{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Um there are new developments in speech recognition um systems , {vocalsound} um and they are already being uh used on uh coffee machines . And um wellthey're cheap , so we could use them now .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Oh {disfmarker} That's interesting .User Interface: Um it's not really speech recognition , it's more um like you can um talk to the chip , uhrecord the message and record an answer , and then once you uh talk to the remote , then um he will a answer with the the prerecorded message that you left . So if I say hi Mike , and you have recorded uh hi Mikeback , then you will get that .Industrial Designer: Oh , yeah , I understand . Yeah .Marketing: Oh okay . {gap}Project Manager: Okay . But you can also say that , when you say something , it does some function.Marketing: Right .User Interface: No it doesn't does not do anything .Marketing: No .Project Manager: Oh . That's a bit uh {disfmarker}User Interface: But i it's just a {disfmarker}Marketing: But that that makes itcheap .Project Manager: Yes . I understand .User Interface: Yeah it's it's cheap .Industrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound}Marketing: It's {vocalsound} it's just a an extra function ,Project Manager: But {vocalsound} ithas no functionality for our remote at all .Marketing: and it's cheap .User Interface: NoMarketing: No but {vocalsound} {disfmarker}User Interface: but that's the gadget they want , or the gimmicks .Marketing: Yeah ,right . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: But it it's n nice for young people .Marketing: Young people love them .User Interface: Yes , we we should really uh include that one , I think . Um {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: They like gadgets . Yeah .Marketing: Yeah , ple Right .Project Manager: Hmm .Industrial Designer: If it's cheap . Yeah .User Interface: Well , as I said uh earlier I think the uh L_C_D_ screen should be uhpositioned at the lower end of the remote .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Um the buttons for screen width and general settings and {gap} uh and that kind of stuff {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound}User Interface: um we can also do let that kind of functions um be shown in the L_C_D_ screen , uh instead of uh extra buttons .Project Manager: So you put a menu in the L_C_D_ ?User Interface: I thinkyoung people and yeah w well every user would like that . Um the buttons um should be positioned uh positioned the same way as they are on a , well , conventional remote , I think . For the learnability and uh well tokeep it recognisable . A voice recognition can be uh implemented . And uh I drew an example ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: but it did not work quite the well uh the way I wanted it to do .Marketing:{vocalsound} Alright .Industrial Designer: Can you draw it now of uh {disfmarker}Marketing: How {disfmarker} How {disfmarker}Project Manager: Ah .User Interface: Hmm ? Well I have the {disfmarker} I can drawit again ,Industrial Designer: Can you draw it now ?User Interface: and I know what I did wrong . I didn't tick the note bo box in the {gap} . Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm . Alright .Marketing: How do you uhuh give input to the menu on the L_C_D_ screen ?User Interface: {vocalsound} Um with the uh the up and down and and well buttons and the {disfmarker}Marketing: Alright . So you have a menu button , and thenyou can go up and down .Project Manager: But then we should also have an uh an Okay button .User Interface: Well I will draw what I had drawn on the screen . Yes .Marketing: Yeah right .User Interface:{vocalsound} Um I shall draw this . If it uh works .Industrial Designer: {gap} button , yeah .Project Manager: Just uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} There is already a blank . Yes ? So {disfmarker} Yeah .Marketing: Yeah"}
{"doc_id":"doc_73","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh welcome back after lunch , I hope uh you had a good lunch together . For uh this meeting the main agenda okay uh to discuss about the conceptual design meeting . Okay and theagenda will be the opening and uh {disfmarker} that's uh {disfmarker} the product manager or secretary that's me and uh the presentations from the Christine and uh Agnes and from Mister Ed . And finally in thismeeting we have to decideMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: and we are to take a decision on the remote control concept and uh the functional design So we have forty minutes , I think it's uh little bit uh low ,but I I hope we can finish it up {vocalsound} so I'll handle to the the functional team , to the Christine , okay , to discuss about uh the components concept .Industrial Designer: Okay . So uh , if you could open thePowerPoint presentation .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I'm number two .Project Manager: You're number two . 'KayIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Components design , there we go .Marketing:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So uh can we put it in slide show mode ? Yeah .Project Manager: The next one .Industrial Designer: Right here , is that little {disfmarker} that one , yes please .Marketing:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Thank you .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I'll take the mouse . {vocalsound} So uhProject Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: we were looking hespecifically at the components uh {disfmarker} the following components , uh the case , the power supply , uh the means of communications with the television set . In instance we had talked about using some sort ofspeech recognition ,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: you have to have microphone {disfmarker} well no you don't actually I haven't {disfmarker} have to have microphone in the device , but ummaybe you do have it a a way {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: it has to it has to hear the speakerUser Interface: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: and um , so it could be in the television set ,could be in the device , but somewhere you have to put the microphone , um and a w a way of making beeps or sounds so you can find it when it's gets lost . Um so the other w thing that we {disfmarker} So . Ourmethod for going about this is we've looked at uh the histo hi historical record , what's worked , what hasn't and then we also um {disfmarker} we wanted to evaluate some new materialsMarketing:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and we contacted manufacturing for their input because , course , we m might {vocalsound} come up and choose the material that then manufacturing didn't have the technologies orcapabilities to offer us , so uh this is the approach that we took during our um {disfmarker} our research .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So um for the case , um we told we were making a specificaspecific assumption that it would be curved in design .Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Course , you know , I wanted it to be expandable and shrinkable , but um that uh doesn'tseem to b be one of the choic non-option we can uh {disfmarker} we can really seriously explore ,User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} so then we were thinking about umrubber , but um unfortunately that's been eliminated because of the heat uh factorUser Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and th um there might be some {vocalsound} problems with the m uh how it's{disfmarker} {vocalsound} uh goes with the board . {vocalsound} Uh and uh then th plastic also has this problem of melting and it's brittle {disfmarker} it gets brittle after a while ,User Interface:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: so um we still had titanium and and wood available , but um unfortunately uh uh titanium's also been eliminated uh ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: the m people inmanufacturing said that you couldn't make d curved cases out of titanium , although how {vocalsound} Apple did it with th PowerBook I'm not su quite sure but uh nevertheless um they've eliminated all of our optionsexcept wood .User Interface: {vocalsound} At least it's environmentally friendly . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} So , {vocalsound} this is our finding .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Anda as she said , it's an environmentally friendly uh material , so we're {disfmarker} we're {vocalsound} currently uh proposing ,Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: uh we'll get to all my personal preferences injust a second .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So then there's this other matter of the chips and um well we could use a simple design on the board ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {disfmarker} uh these simple chips , but that's only works for the bu you don't get very much um intelligence with this simple one . And um then there was the regular which{vocalsound} I regret that I've forgotten exactly why I'm eliminating that one . Uh the other option was this advanced chip on print , {vocalsound} and uh we liked th we we found that it it includes this infrared sender,Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: which w 'member the beam was {disfmarker} that was an important component of finding the right chip .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: And uhmanufacturing has told us that they've um uh recently developed a uh a sensor and a speaker that would uh be integrated into this advanced chip on print , so uh we we uh now jumping right to our personalpreferences um I I'd really think we should , you know , use some of uh some really exotic woods , like um ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: you know uh , well you guys come from tropical countries soyou can kinda think of some trees and some nice woods . I think that people will might really want to design their own cases , you see , they could do sort of a {disfmarker} this um three-dimensional design on theinternet , and then they could submit their orders , kinda like you submit a custom car order , you know , and you can choose the colour and the size of the wheels and the colours of the leather and things like that , andthen I uh think we should go with the solar cells as well as the um microphone and speaker on the advanced chip . So this is the findings of our researchMarketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and myrecommendations um for the new remote control w um would be to have um have it be made out of wood . Do you have any problems with that ?Project Manager: {vocalsound} Can you go back uh one slide ?IndustrialDesigner: I'm not sure , how do I {disfmarker} Oh , I know , let's see .User Interface: Thank you . Yeah .Industrial Designer: Let's go back up here .Project Manager: Yes , uh {gap} question , uh , what's mean exactly, advanced chip on print ? What's the meaning of that ?Industrial Designer: I think it's um um a multiple uh chip design um {vocalsound} and it's uh maybe printed on to the circuit board .User Interface:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Uh I could find out more about that uh before the next fi next meeting .Project Manager: Yeah , is it means it's on the{disfmarker} yeah is it on a micro-proc micro-processor based or uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I don't know , but I'll find out more at our next meeting .Project Manager: Okay , tha that would begreat , so if you find out from the technology background , okay , so that would be good .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Sounds good .User Interface: Why was the plastic eliminated as a possible material?Industrial Designer: Because um it gets brittle , cracks {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Um We want {disfmarker} we expect these um {vocalsound} uh these remote controls to be aroundfor several hundred years . So . {vocalsound} Good ex {vocalsound} {gap} Good expression . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} WhicMarketing: Wow ,User Interface: {vocalsound} Which{disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} good expression . Well after us . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I don't know , speak for yourself , I'm planning to be around for a while .{vocalsound}User Interface: Although I think {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: I think with wood though you'd run into the same types of problems , wouldn't you , I mean it chips , itif you drop it ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: uh it's {disfmarker} I'm not su {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: So {gap} soyou're not convinced about the the wood , yes .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {gap} you're what ?Marketing: Actually , I'm ready to sell it .User Interface: I think {vocalsound} if you reif you use really good quality wood , then it might work ,Marketing: I'm ready to sell it .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} You think ? {vocalsound} And you could {disfmarker} you could sell oils with it , to take care ofit .User Interface: but you can't just use {disfmarker}Marketing: No y {vocalsound} no no no , the o the only w the only wood you can use are the ones that are hard , extremely hard wood ,User Interface: Yeah ,exactly , yeah .Marketing: but there are some very pretty woods out there {vocalsound} .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well I'm glad you {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: That's actually veryinnovative idea .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay , good .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Sorr having a hard time keeping wi control over my face . {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Well , it's actually a very innovative n different idea that uh you know you can choose your colour of wood , your type of wood .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: The stain .Marketing: {vocalsound} I mean it's {disfmarker} each person is gonna have their own personalised , individualised speech recognition remote control in wood , that's not on the market.Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah , so it it's looks good the the design the functional design uh , what about yo you ?Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Um , in terms of comments on this or in terms of my own {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yes , in t yes , in term in terms of comments first {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} In turns of wow . {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: She works in the cubicle next to me so she's uh she was already a little bit prepared for this {vocalsound} .User Interface: Y yeah .Marketing:{vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Luckily Ed was not . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Wood ? {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} I think we can get the quality materialsthen {vocalsound} it shouldn't influence the design principles too much , which you'll see with my presentation .Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: One thing we'd have to check though is what theusers {disfmarker} whether {disfmarker} how quickly the novelty wears off of having uh {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Mm-hmm . Yeah , you wouldn't wanna have to have splinters in your hand whileyou're using your {disfmarker}User Interface: {disfmarker} Yeah , for example . {vocalsound} So , have to see how kid-friendly it is and and all that ,Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} It'sreally good if your dog gets ahold of it , they can use it {vocalsound} {gap} for teething .User Interface: but {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: They do thatanyway with the rubber and plastic ,Industrial Designer: Yeah , they do it with other materials as well , yeah .Marketing: so {vocalsound} , and chew 'em up . And chew 'em up .Project Manager: Okay then , uh , let'smove to Agnes .User Interface: Sure .Industrial Designer: Oh , I'm sorry .Project Manager: S you're {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: You are in participant three .User Interface: One pointthree , yeahMarketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh , yeah .Project Manager: This one ?User Interface: I think so , yeah . Yeah , that's the one . So , it's a very short presentation , 'cause I'm actually gonna drawyou the layout on the board so if you want to just go straight to the second slide , um , which basically shows , sort of {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: I took the ideas that we were talking aboutlast time um and tried to put that into the remote control so the things that y you can actually see on it are the on off switch , volume and channel control , the menu access button , ergonomic shape , which Icompletely agree with Christine's idea to have it sort of molded , so it's slightly more ergonomic and comfortable to hold than the r standard very straight remote controls . And actually the other thing with the wood ifwe take your customising idea , is that people can actually do sort of quasi-measurements on their hand size , so if someone has larger hands , you have a wider remote control .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Right, my hand is uh different size than yours for example .User Interface: {vocalsound} So , that's actually a really good idea for customi customisability . Um , one thing I thought might be kind of interesting is to put a flipscreen on it , just like you have on flip phones ,Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: so that you don't have this case where someone sits on the remote control or accidentally puts their hand on it , especially if youhave little kids around , they're not pressing the buttons while you're trying to watch a T_V_ show and accidentally change the channel or turn it off .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .User Interface: And also{vocalsound} um you had issues with the batteries running out ,Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: so I thought maybe we could put a little battery life-light on it that kind of goes dimmer and dimmer and dimmeras your battery is {disfmarker} starts to die . And in terms of invisible features , audio and um tactile feedback on button presses and , like you said , speech recognition .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .User Interface:So , in terms of what this thing would actually look like {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Despite working in interface design , I'm not the greatest artist in the world , so you'll have to forgive me .{vocalsound} {vocalsound} You'd have something like this with an on-off switch fairly big , sort of in the corner and by itself , so you don't accidentally turn your T_V_ off while you're trying to manoeuvre other buttons. And then you have sort of one of those toggle displays for , oops , channels and volume , sort of for surfing channels and then volume , so the volume would be the up and down , 'cause volume goes up and down andthen channels left to right . And then here you'd have your sort of standard , telephonish number pad . {vocalsound} And then on one side you would have an access to the menu on your T_V_Project Manager:{vocalsound}User Interface: and on the other side a way to turn off the voice control . So that if the user doesn't want to use their voice , they can just turn it off and you don't have the remote control accidentallychanging things on you .Industrial Designer: Mm . Mm-hmm .User Interface: {vocalsound} Um , so again you can have a little L_C_D_ light somewhere , the flip {vocalsound} thing and {disfmarker} Have I forgottenanything ? I don't think so . So , as you can see , it's a very very simple design ,Marketing: No . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: which is one of the things I really wanted to keep , is keep itsimple , not have too many buttons , not have too many functionalities thrown into it . Think the design can pretty much carry over to everything , although with the wood the flip screen might have to do somethingslightly different .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: A hinge . Be like a copper hinge or you know .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah . But you also have to d start watching out for theweight , 'cause depending on how much the the flip screen will add to the weight of the remote control , you don't want it to start getting too heavy .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm . Mm .User Interface: But that's thegeneral layout with the general functionalities , if we come up with something else . As you can see , there's still lots of space on the actual remote control and if you do it customisably , {vocalsound} you can make thisthing fairly small or fairly o large , depending on personal preferences .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm , mm-hmm . {vocalsound}Marketing: Hmm .User Interface: So , that's pretty much {vocalsound} all I had to say , Imean , everything else in terms of design issues . Um the centering of the key pad and {vocalsound} the channel is just depending on where your thumb is and you tend to use the the volume control and uh thebrowsing more than the actual number pad , so that would be sort of in direct line of where your thumb goes when you are holding the remote control ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Mm-hmm .User Interface: thenumber pad a little bit lower 'cause it's used less frequently .Industrial Designer: Mm . Mm-hmm .User Interface: So once we decide exactly what we want , then we can figure out the exact positioning , but more or lessI think it should go along those lines .Project Manager: {vocalsound} So what's your , uh , the comments or uh sMarketing: Simple design . It's what consumers want .Project Manager: OkayMarketing: It's almost like ,Houston , we have a product here . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: Problem is obviously gonna be cost .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Okay, I also have a f {vocalsound} very simple presentation ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: because for the marketing point you have to see what the consumers want .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: {vocalsound} I also have uh copied a different type of remote . If you can find me , where I'm at . {vocalsound} There should only be one in here . {gap} trend watch .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Sure .Marketing: It's being modified .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} They're stealing our product . {vocalsound} We've been giving simple {vocalsound} questionnaires in different areas becauseth {gap} obviously we have to see what the com consumers are looking for today , 'cause uh trends change very very quickly . In six months maybe this idea is already gone out the window , so it's gonna be a questionhow fast we can act . Uh they already erased the rest of mine , huh .Industrial Designer: No ,User Interface: No , no .Industrial Designer: f go to findings .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: No no , no no .{vocalsound} 'Cause I had another comment there . Uh the market trend . This is what we know from the last uh {disfmarker} from the {vocalsound} questionnaires from the the {disfmarker} all the p surveys we'vedone , fancy and feel-good , that's what we've been looking for , something that feels good in the hand , that's easy to use . Looking for next generation of innovation , because all the remotes out there now , they're allvery similar , they all do the same thing ,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: we have to have something completely different . Okay ? Easy to use , has always has become{disfmarker} has become another major interest that uh , with the whiteboard we can see that it's a remote that's easy to use . And I think this is another thing that's interesting is the consumers actually willing to paythe price for exciting tel technology . So even if we have a product that may be more expensive , if it comes out right , if they {gap} look {disfmarker} it looks and feels good and has technology . The second two , youcan see the last one is a very easy simple design . {vocalsound} The second one , there is about uh forty-five thousand different buttons on it , which makes it fairly hard to read , uh very hard to use .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: The first one , I see {vocalsound} that they put in a display . Now there's something else uh with the little flip-up , now we're adding all kinds of things in,User Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: but with the little flip-up , if you have a little display on the flip-up that when you close it everything is locked .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Maybe the display also makes it"}
{"doc_id":"doc_74","qid":"","text":"PhD A: Alright . We 're on .Professor B: Test , um . Test , test , test . Guess that 's me . Yeah . OK .Grad D: Ooh , Thursday .Professor B: So . There 's two sheets of paper in front of us .PhD A: What are these ?PhD E:Yeah . So .Professor B: This is the arm wrestling ?PhD C: Uh . Yeah , we formed a coalition actually .PhD E: Yeah . Almost .PhD C: We already made it into one .Professor B: Oh , good .PhD C: Yeah .Professor B:Excellent .PhD E: Yeah .Professor B: That 's the best thing .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor B: So , tell me about it .PhD E: So it 's {disfmarker} well , it 's {pause} spectral subtraction or Wiener filtering , um , dependingon if we put {disfmarker} if we square the transfer function or not .Professor B: Right .PhD E: And then with over - estimation of the noise , depending on the , uh {disfmarker} the SNR , with smoothing along time , um, smoothing along frequency .Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD E: It 's very simple , smoothing things .Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD E: And , um , {vocalsound} the best result is {vocalsound} when we apply this procedureon FFT bins , uh , with a Wiener filter .Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD E: And there is no noise addition after {disfmarker} after that .Professor B: OK .PhD E: So it 's good because {vocalsound} {vocalsound} it 's difficultwhen we have to add noise to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to find the right level .Professor B: OK .PhD A: Are you looking at one in {disfmarker} in particular of these two ?PhD E: Yeah . So the sh it 's the sheet thatgives fifty - f three point sixty - six .Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD E: Um , {vocalsound} the second sheet is abo uh , about the same . It 's the same , um , idea but it 's working on mel bands , {vocalsound} and it 's aspectral subtraction instead of Wiener filter , and there is also a noise addition after , uh , cleaning up the mel bins . Mmm . Well , the results are similar .Professor B: Yeah . I mean , {vocalsound} it 's {disfmarker}{comment} it 's actually , uh , very similar .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor B: I mean , {vocalsound} if you look at databases , uh , the , uh , one that has the smallest {disfmarker} smaller overall number is actuallybetter on the Finnish and Spanish , uh , but it is , uh , worse on the , uh , Aurora {disfmarker}PhD E: It 's worse on {disfmarker}Professor B: I mean on the , uh , TI - TI - digits ,PhD E: on the multi - condition in TI -digits . Yeah .Professor B: uh , uh . Um .PhD E: Mmm .Professor B: So , it probably doesn't matter that much either way . But , um , when you say u uh , unified do you mean , uh , it 's one piece of software now , or{disfmarker} ?PhD E: So now we are , yeah , setting up the software .Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD E: Um , it should be ready , uh , very soon . Um , and wePhD A: So what 's {disfmarker} what 's happened ? I think I've missed something .Professor B: OK . So a week ago {disfmarker} maybe you weren't around when {disfmarker} when {disfmarker} when Hynek and Guenther and I {disfmarker} ?PhD C: Hynek was here .PhD A:Yeah . I didn't .Professor B: Oh , OK . So {disfmarker} Yeah , let 's summarize . Um {disfmarker} And then if I summarize somebody can tell me if I 'm wrong , which will also be possibly helpful . What did I just presshere ? I hope this is still working .PhD E: p - p - pProfessor B: We , uh {disfmarker} we looked at , {nonvocalsound} uh {disfmarker} anyway we {disfmarker} {vocalsound} after coming back from QualComm we had ,you know , very strong feedback and , uh , I think it was {vocalsound} Hynek and Guenter 's and my opinion also that , um , you know , we sort of spread out to look at a number of different ways of doing noisesuppression . But given the limited time , uh , it was sort of time to {pause} choose one .PhD A: Mm - hmm . Mmm .Professor B: Uh , and so , uh , th the vector Taylor series hadn't really worked out that much . Uh ,the subspace stuff , uh , had not been worked with so much . Um , so it sort of came down to spectral subtraction versus Wiener filtering .PhD A: Hmm .Professor B: Uh , we had a long discussion about how they werethe same and how they were d uh , completely different .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor B: And , uh , I mean , fundamentally they 're the same sort of thing but the math is a little different so that there 's a {disfmarker}a {disfmarker} {vocalsound} there 's an exponent difference in the index {disfmarker} you know , what 's the ideal filtering , and depending on how you construct the problem .PhD A: Uh - huh .Professor B: And , uh ,I guess it 's sort {disfmarker} you know , after {disfmarker} after that meeting it sort of made more sense to me because {vocalsound} um , if you 're dealing with power spectra then how are you gonna choose yourerror ? And typically you 'll do {disfmarker} choose something like a variance . And so that means it 'll be something like the square of the power spectra . Whereas when you 're {disfmarker} when you 're doing the{disfmarker} the , uh , um , {vocalsound} looking at it the other way , you 're gonna be dealing with signalsPhD C: Mm - hmm .Professor B: and you 're gonna end up looking at power {disfmarker} uh , noise powerthat you 're trying to reduce . And so , eh {disfmarker} so there should be a difference {vocalsound} of {disfmarker} you know , conceptually of {disfmarker} of , uh , a factor of two in the exponent .PhD A: Mm - hmm.Professor B: But there 're so many different little factors that you adjust in terms of {disfmarker} of , uh , {vocalsound} uh , over - subtraction and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker}and so forth , um , that {vocalsound} arguably , you 're c and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and the choice of do you {disfmarker} do you operate on the mel bands or do you operate on the FFT beforehand . There're so many other choices to make that are {disfmarker} are almost {disfmarker} well , if not independent , certainly in addition to {pause} the choice of whether you , uh , do spectral subtraction or Wiener filtering ,that , um , {vocalsound} @ @ again we sort of felt the gang should just sort of figure out which it is they wanna do and then let 's pick it , go forward with it . So that 's {disfmarker} that was {disfmarker} that was lastweek . And {disfmarker} {vocalsound} and , uh , we said , uh , take a week , go arm wrestle , you know ,Grad D: Oh .Professor B: figure it out . I mean , and th the joke there was that each of them had specialized inone of them .PhD A: Oh , OK .Professor B: And {disfmarker} and so they {disfmarker} so instead they went to Yosemite and bonded , and {disfmarker} and they came out with a single {disfmarker} single piece ofsoftware . So it 's {vocalsound} another {disfmarker} another victory for international collaboration . So .PhD A: So {disfmarker} so you guys have combined {disfmarker} or you 're going to be combining the software?Professor B: Uh .PhD C: Well , the piece of software has , like , plenty of options ,PhD E: Oh boy .PhD C: like you can parse command - line arguments . So depending on that , it {disfmarker} it becomes either spectralsubtraction or Wiener filtering .PhD A: Oh , OK .PhD C: So , yePhD A: They 're close enough .Professor B: Well , that 's fine , but the thing is {disfmarker} the important thing is that there is a piece of software that you{disfmarker} that we all will be using now .PhD C: Yeah . Yeah .Professor B: Yes .PhD C: There 's just one piece of software .PhD E: Yeah .Professor B: Yeah .PhD E: I need to allow it to do everything and even more{disfmarker} more than this .PhD C: Right .PhD E: Well , if we want to , like , optimize different parameters of {disfmarker}PhD C: Parameters . Yeah .Professor B: Sure .PhD E: Yeah , we can do it later . But , still{disfmarker} so , there will be a piece of software with , {vocalsound} {vocalsound} uh , will give this system , the fifty - three point sixty - six , by default and {disfmarker}Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD A: How{disfmarker} how is {disfmarker} how good is that ?PhD E: Mm - hmm .PhD A: I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I don't have a sense of {disfmarker}PhD E: It 's just one percent off of the {pause} best proposal .PhD C:Best system .PhD E: It 's between {disfmarker} i we are second actually if we take this system .PhD A: OK .Professor B: Yeah .PhD C: Yeah .PhD E: Right ?PhD A: Compared to the last evaluation numbers ? Yeah.Professor B: But , uh {disfmarker} w which we sort of were beforePhD C: Yeah .PhD E: Mm - hmm . Yeah .Professor B: but we were considerably far behind . And the thing is , this doesn't have neural net in yet forinstance . You know ?PhD E: Mm - hmm .PhD A: Hmm .Professor B: So it {disfmarker} so , um , it 's {disfmarker} it it 's not using our full bal bag of tricks , if you will .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor B: And , uh , and it{disfmarker} it is , uh , very close in performance to the best thing that was there before . Uh , but , you know , looking at it another way , maybe more importantly , uh , {vocalsound} we didn't have any explicit noise, uh , handling {disfmarker} stationary {disfmarker} dealing with {disfmarker} e e we didn't explicitly have anything to deal with stationary noise .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor B: And now we do .PhD A: So will the{pause} neural net operate on the output from either the Wiener filtering or the spectral subtraction ? Or will it operate on the original ?Professor B: Well , so {disfmarker} so {disfmarker} so argu arguably , I mean ,what we should do {disfmarker} I mean , I gather you have {disfmarker} it sounds like you have a few more days of {disfmarker} of nailing things down with the software and so on . But {disfmarker} and then{disfmarker} but , um , {vocalsound} arguably what we should do is , even though the software can do many things , we should for now pick a set of things , th these things I would guess , and not change that .PhD E:Mm - hmm .Professor B: And then focus on {pause} everything that 's left . And I think , you know , that our goal should be by next week , when Hynek comes back , {vocalsound} uh , to {disfmarker} uh , really justto have a firm path , uh , for the {disfmarker} you know , for the time he 's gone , of {disfmarker} of , uh , what things will be attacked . But I would {disfmarker} I would {disfmarker} I would thought think that whatwe would wanna do is not futz with this stuff for a while because what 'll happen is we 'll change many other things in the system ,PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor B: and then we 'll probably wanna come back to this andpossibly make some other choices . But , um .PhD A: But just conceptually , where does the neural net go ? Do {disfmarker} do you wanna h run it on the output of the spectrally subtracted {disfmarker} ?PhD E: Mmm.Professor B: Well , depending on its size {disfmarker} Well , one question is , is it on the , um , server side or is it on the terminal side ? Uh , if it 's on the server side , it {disfmarker} you probably don't have to worrytoo much about size .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor B: So that 's kind of an argument for that . We do still , however , have to consider its latency . So the issue is {disfmarker} is , um , {vocalsound} for instance , couldwe have a neural net that only looked at the past ?PhD A: Right .Professor B: Um , what we 've done in uh {disfmarker} in the past is to use the neural net , uh , to transform , {vocalsound} um , all of the features thatwe use . So this is done early on . This is essentially , {vocalsound} um , um {disfmarker} I guess it 's {disfmarker} it 's more or less like a spee a speech enhancement technique here {disfmarker}PhD A: Mm - hmm.Professor B: right ? {disfmarker} where we 're just kind of creating {vocalsound} new {disfmarker} if not new speech at least new {disfmarker} new FFT 's that {disfmarker} that have {disfmarker} you know , whichcould be turned into speech {disfmarker} uh , that {disfmarker} that have some of the noise removed .PhD E: Mm - hmm .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor B: Um , after that we still do a mess of other things to{disfmarker} to produce a bunch of features .PhD A: Right .Professor B: And then those features are not now currently transformed {vocalsound} by the neural net . And then the {disfmarker} the way that we had it inour proposal - two before , we had the neural net transformed features and we had {vocalsound} the untransformed features , which I guess you {disfmarker} you actually did linearly transform with the KLT ,PhD E:Yeah . Yeah . Right .Professor B: but {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} uh , to orthogonalize them {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} {vocalsound} but they were not , uh , processed through a neural net .And Stephane 's idea with that , as I recall , was that {vocalsound} you 'd have one part of the feature vector that was very discriminant and another part that wasn't ,PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor B: uh , which wouldsmooth things a bit for those occasions when , uh , the testing set was quite different than what you 'd trained your discriminant features for . So , um , all of that is {disfmarker} is , uh {disfmarker} still seems like agood idea . The thing is now we know some other constraints . We can't have unlimited amounts of latency . Uh , y you know , that 's still being debated by the {disfmarker} by people in Europe but , {vocalsound} uh ,no matter how they end up there , it 's not going to be unlimited amounts ,PhD A: Yeah .Professor B: so we have to be a little conscious of that . Um . So there 's the neural net issue . There 's the VAD issue . And , uh ,there 's the second stream {pause} thing . And I think those that we {disfmarker} last time we agreed that those are the three things that have to get , uh , focused on .PhD A: What was the issue with the VAD?Professor B: Well , better {comment} ones are good .PhD A: And so the w the default , uh , boundaries that they provide are {disfmarker} they 're OK , but they 're not all that great ?Professor B: I guess they stillallow two hundred milliseconds on either side or some ? Is that what the deal is ?PhD E: Mm - hmm . Uh , so th um , they keep two hundred milliseconds at the beginning and end of speech . And they keep all the{disfmarker}PhD A: Outside the beginnings and end .PhD E: Yeah .PhD A: Uh - huh .PhD E: And all the speech pauses , which is {disfmarker} Sometimes on the SpeechDat - Car you have pauses that are more thanone or two seconds .PhD A: Wow .PhD E: More than one second for sure . Um .PhD A: Hmm .PhD E: Yeah . And , yeah , it seems to us that this way of just dropping the beginning and end is not {disfmarker} We couwe can do better , I think ,PhD A: Mm - hmm .PhD E: because , um , {vocalsound} with this way of dropping the frames they improve {pause} over the baseline by fourteen percent and {vocalsound} Sunil alreadyshowed that with our current VAD we can improve by more than twenty percent .PhD A: On top of the VAD that they provide ?PhD C: No .PhD E: Just using either their VAD or our current VAD .PhD C: Our way .PhD A:Oh , OK .PhD E: So , our current VAD is {disfmarker} is more than twenty percent , while their is fourteen .PhD A: Theirs is fourteen ? I see .PhD E: Yeah .PhD A: Huh .PhD E: So . Yeah . And {pause} another thing thatwe did also is that we have all this training data for {disfmarker} let 's say , for SpeechDat - Car . We have channel zero which is clean , channel one which is far - field microphone . And if we just take only the , um ,VAD probabilities computed on the clean signal and apply them on the far - field , uh , test utterances , {vocalsound} then results are much better .PhD A: Mm - hmm .PhD E: In some cases it divides the error rate bytwo .PhD A: Wow .PhD E: So it means that there are stim {comment} still {disfmarker}PhD A: How {disfmarker} how much latency does the , uh {disfmarker} does our VAD add ?PhD E: If {disfmarker} if we can havea good VAD , well , it would be great .PhD A: Is it significant ,PhD E: Uh , right now it 's , um , a neural net with nine frames .PhD A: or {disfmarker} ?PhD E: So it 's forty milliseconds plus , um , the rank ordering ,which , uh , should bePhD C: Like another ten frames .PhD E: ten {disfmarker} Yeah .Grad D: Rank . Oh .PhD E: So , right now it 's one hundred and forty {pause} milliseconds .Professor B: With the rank ordering{disfmarker} ? I 'm sorry .PhD C: The {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the smoothing {disfmarker} the m the {disfmarker} the filtering of the probabilities .PhD E: The {disfmarker} The , um {disfmarker}PhD C: on theR .PhD E: Yeah . It 's not a median filtering . It 's just {disfmarker} We don't take the median value . We take something {disfmarker} Um , so we have eleven , um , frames .Professor B: Oh , this is for the VAD .PhDC: Yeah .PhD E: And {disfmarker} for the VAD , yeah {disfmarker}Professor B: Oh , OK .PhD C: Yeah .PhD E: and we take th the third .PhD C: Yeah .Grad D: DarPhD E: Um .Professor B: Yeah . Um . So {disfmarker}{comment} Yeah , I was just noticing on this that it makes reference to delay .PhD E: Mmm .Professor B: So what 's the {disfmarker} ? If you ignore {disfmarker} Um , the VAD is sort of in {disfmarker} in parallel ,isn't i isn't it , with {disfmarker} with the {disfmarker} ? I mean , it isn't additive with the {disfmarker} the , uh , LDA and the Wiener filtering , and so forth .PhD C: The LDA ?Professor B: Right ?PhD C: Yeah . So{disfmarker} so what happened right now , we removed the delay of the LDA .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor B: Yeah .PhD C: So we {disfmarker} I mean , if {disfmarker} so if we {disfmarker} if {disfmarker} so whichis like if we reduce the delay of VA So , the f the final delay 's now ba is f determined by the delay of the VAD , because the LDA doesn't have any delay . So if we re if we reduce the delay of the VAD , I mean , it 's likeeffectively reducing the delay .PhD A: How {disfmarker} how much , uh , delay was there on the LDA ?PhD C: So the LDA and the VAD both had a hundred millisecond delay . So and they were in parallel , so whichmeans you pick either one of them {disfmarker}PhD A: Mmm .PhD C: the {disfmarker} the biggest , whatever .PhD A: I see .Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD C: So , right now the LDA delays are more .Professor B: Andthere {disfmarker}PhD A: Oh , OK .Professor B: And there didn't seem to be any , uh , penalty for that ? There didn't seem to be any penalty for making it causal ?PhD C: Pardon ? Oh , no . It actually made it , like ,point one percent better or something , actually .Professor B: OK . Well , may as well , then .PhD C: Or something like thatProfessor B: And he says Wiener filter is {disfmarker} is forty milliseconds delay .PhD C: and{disfmarker}Professor B: So is it {disfmarker} ?PhD C: Yeah . So that 's the one which Stephane was discussing , like {disfmarker}PhD E: Mmm .Professor B: The smoothing ?PhD C: Yeah . The {disfmarker} yousmooth it and then delay the decision by {disfmarker} So .Professor B: Right . OK . So that 's {disfmarker} that 's really not {disfmarker} not bad . So we may in fact {disfmarker} we 'll see what they decide . We mayin fact have , {vocalsound} um , the {disfmarker} the , uh , latency time available for {disfmarker} to have a neural net . I mean , sounds like we probably will . So .PhD C: Mm - hmm .Professor B: That 'd be good .Cuz I {disfmarker} cuz it certainly always helped us before . So .PhD A: What amount of latency are you thinking about when you say that ?Professor B: Uh . Well , they 're {disfmarker} you know , they 're disputing it.PhD A: Mmm .Professor B: You know , they 're saying , uh {disfmarker} one group is saying a hundred and thirty milliseconds and another group is saying two hundred and fifty milliseconds . Two hundred and fifty iswhat it was before actually . So ,PhD A: Oh .Professor B: uh , some people are lobbying {disfmarker} lobbying {comment} to make it shorter .PhD A: Hmm .Professor B: Um . And , um .PhD A: Were you thinking of thetwo - fifty or the one - thirty when you said we should {pause} have enough for the neural net ?Professor B: Well , it just {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} when we find that out it might change exactly how we do it , is all.PhD A: Oh , OK .Professor B: I mean , how much effort do we put into making it causal ? I mean , {vocalsound} I think the neural net will probably do better if it looks at a little bit of the future .PhD A: Mm - hmm.Professor B: But , um , it will probably work to some extent to look only at the past . And we ha you know , limited machine and human time , and {vocalsound} effort . And , you know , how {disfmarker} how muchtime should we put into {disfmarker} into that ? So it 'd be helpful if we find out from the {disfmarker} the standards folks whether , you know , they 're gonna restrict that or not .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor B: Um .But I think , you know , at this point our major concern is making the performance better and {disfmarker} and , um , {vocalsound} if , uh , something has to take a little longer in latency in order to do it that 's{pause} you know , a secondary issue .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor B: But if we get told otherwise then , you know , we may have to c clamp down a bit more .Grad D: Mmm .PhD C: So , the one {disfmarker} one"}
{"doc_id":"doc_75","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Okay . Here we go . Alright , the agenda for thi oh . Alright . Um the agenda for this meeting {vocalsound} is um {disfmarker} we'll initially have the prototype presentation by our two designers . Andthen we will evaluate it , given the criteria that um that we gave gave it . And um talk about our finances , whether we were under or over our budget . I have a um a spreadsheet where we can calculate um our pricesfor every aspect of of what we've made , given our options . And um evaluate the product , as a group .Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: And um {disfmarker} So first we'll have the prototype presentation .Do you need the um PowerPoint for this ?Industrial Designer: Um yeah . I just got a few slides , so show them .Project Manager: Alright .Industrial Designer: Thank you . Do you want to present it ? {vocalsound}UserInterface: {vocalsound} Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah , here we are .User Interface: {vocalsound} This is what we came up with . It's a pretty simple design . It's um based on a mango ? Yeah . And{vocalsound} we {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: On ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Mango shape .Project Manager: {vocalsound} A mango . Okay .User Interface: Yeah . And we have thecompany logo here and this will be the infrared hereIndustrial Designer: The L_E_D_ .User Interface: and this'll be the power point , the on off button kind {disfmarker}Project Manager: Oh . Okay .User Interface: yeah.Marketing: I'm sorry .Project Manager: Oops .Marketing: What was the {disfmarker} where's the L_E_D_ ?User Interface: It's in the middle of one of the little R_s .Marketing: Oh . Okay .User Interface: And then theother one is the power . And uh we just have a simple design . We wanted it all to beIndustrial Designer: So it's palm-held .User Interface: accessible from your thumbIndustrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface:{disfmarker} yeah palm-heldProject Manager: Yeah .User Interface: and all the buttons are accessible from your thumb .Project Manager: Notice you have a number ten button .User Interface: So you don't have to{disfmarker} Oh that was a mistake , wasn't it ?Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: You just need the nought . {vocalsound}User Interface: Right no , that's a zero .Marketing:{vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Take that one off . {vocalsound} Sorry . I was in charge of the numbers . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} No problem .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Ah .User Interface: And this is just if you've got like eleven or twelve or thirt the plus .Industrial Designer: So one plus one would be eleven ,UserInterface: {vocalsound} You can go one , three or something .Industrial Designer: or {disfmarker}Project Manager: Oh . You press a plus button ?User Interface: You press that first and then you go one three yeah.Project Manager: Oh okay . I've never heard of that kind before .User Interface: Well we just thought , we have all the numbers here , so we wanted something representative of numbers larger than ten and{disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah because if you {disfmarker} on your average um remote , if you press one twice you just go to {disfmarker} um or uh say you wanted channel twelve ,you press one , and then you go to channel one , and then two then you'd just go to channel two , instead of twelve .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Oh , there's no eProject Manager: Oh .Industrial Designer: So ifyou did like one plus two you could go to channel twelve , or two plus two is channel twenty two .User Interface: So the plus and then {disfmarker}Marketing: okay .User Interface: yeah .Project Manager: IMarketing:Okay .Project Manager: But {disfmarker} Would you have to go zero plus one if you wanted to go to channel one or two ?User Interface: No no , th all {disfmarker} that's why we have all these numbers . Thesenumbers um these numbers all work independently up to nine . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah but I mean if you press , it'll go to that channel right away . 'Cause you gotta press the plus afterwards .UserInterface: Yeah . Oh no . Uh , the plus is only for if you're going past the number nine .Project Manager: Yeah I know , but if if I wanna go to say number like sixty five , channel sixty five , if I press the six it'll go tochannel six , and then I'll press the plus , and then it'll go to six and then put the five and it'll go to sixty five ?Marketing: Sixty .User Interface: You p Oh . No you press the plus first .Industrial Designer: Oh .UserInterface: I I {disfmarker} well it doesn't {disfmarker} we haven't really s I would've thought you pressed the plus first and then the six five ,Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: but she says plus {disfmarker}{vocalsound} press {disfmarker} which {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Well I don't mind , we can further define that .User Interface: what do you think is simpler ?Project Manager: I th Um {disfmarker}UserInterface: It's a {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I wouldn't have thought it'd be a problem that it went to channel six first , in like on the way to channel sixty five .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah itwouldn't be a problem . But I was just wonderingIndustrial Designer: But I suppose it's not as snappy .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: like as long as we realise that's what it'll do .Marketing: Well the there is a{disfmarker} there's a delay on remotes I think .User Interface: Oops . Yeah .Marketing: Where you can have it {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: it's like a five second input time .Industrial Designer:Yeah . If you don't put it {disfmarker}Marketing: So as long as you hit them dadaIndustrial Designer: Yeah . Yeah ,User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: that {disfmarker} yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound} it shouldbe fine .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: As long as there's not a big pause between the t hitting the two buttons .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Yeah . So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Um{disfmarker}Marketing: Was there {disfmarker} so on the top there is volume and {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: And channel ,User Interface: A channel .Industrial Designer: which is so you could just go like thatwithout thinking about it , like {disfmarker}Marketing: Channel up volume up . Okay cool .Project Manager: C_ and V_ .User Interface: Just so we can flick {disfmarker}Project Manager: Right , where um where's thepower button ?Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: It's in the middle of one of the little R_s . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: It's the bigger R_ .Marketing: It's the R_ .Project Manager: Oh okay .Industrial Designer: Soit's just like {vocalsound} .User Interface: Yeah ,Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: so it's all accessible . Without m taking your hand off the remote .Industrial Designer: We deciProject Manager: Yeah .IndustrialDesigner: Yeah um we went for like a a circular design for the numbersMarketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: because we thought that's kind of a more natural movement than just going like that with your thumb.Project Manager: Oh okay .Industrial Designer: Uh e ergonomics are all considered .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Ergonomic , definitely ergonomic .User Interface: And {vocalsound}it might actually help with the repetitive stress injury as well .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: It could cause another type of repetitive stress injury though .User Interface: Okay . {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: But yeah , no I mean it's a different movementMarketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: so {disfmarker} yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Um and the feel of it , I mean , we've made thisout of Play Doh , which is representing the , you know , the rubber , and the spongy rubberness .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: The spon yeah .User Interface: Yeah .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Um 'cause it was said before in the material specification that this {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} this anti-R_S_I_ um material is often used in stress balls so this has got a you know abit of give to it ,Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: and it just feels feels different .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Bit of a stress ball feel .Industrial Designer: Would you like to feel it yourselves ?UserInterface: Yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yes . I would .Industrial Designer: How it fits in the palm of your hand ?Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: My goodness .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Thanks .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} There you go .Industrial Designer: And you ? {vocalsound}Project Manager: Genevieve ?Marketing: YesProject Manager: Yeah .{vocalsound}Marketing: . Oh it's nice . Oh I think I killed the five .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: I did .Project Manager: And something hmm . {vocalsound}Marketing: I killed the four . Oh god .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: O Okay , as for the colours , we were presented with um a limited range of colours for this prototype .User Interface: Of Play Doh yeah .Marketing: Oh it smells good .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: But we're thinking that , seeing as we're having it in interchangeable casing anyway , that this is not necessarily a representation of the true colours that we would necessarily use . Orthe combination . Um and we're thinking to carry-on with the fruit and vegetable theme , the colour um combination just could just be named after different fruit , like banana could be black and yellow , watermelon redand green ,Project Manager: Oh right .Industrial Designer: or vanilla might be the most popular if it just uh blends inUser Interface: 'Cause it'd be quite subtle and {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: more settled creaminstead of the others are all a bit garish .Project Manager: Yeah . It looks more {disfmarker} Think like vanilla and banana would .Industrial Designer: Banana's more representative of our colour scheme , like thecompany {disfmarker} the yellow and black .Project Manager: Okay yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: So that {disfmarker} for corporate identity that would probably be the most strength .UserInterface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I mean watermelon , you know , m probably appealing to the {disfmarker}Project Manager: Kinda Christmas , youknow .Industrial Designer: yeah , seasonal .User Interface: Yeah , yeah , yeah . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Apple green , brown , more kinda trendy , you know , khaki {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah .UserInterface: The pomegranate's kinda girly and funky kind of ,Project Manager: Cool .User Interface: and then the vanilla's more for the more sophisticated {vocalsound} customer who just wants something that fits inwith all decor .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah . Okay . Um yeah we thought of the components it was definitely um a focus of ergonomics and just a single ha handheld device , I mean youdon't need to use both hands , one hand to hold this and type in with the other , you can just use your thumb .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Um , as we said the rubber's probably used for comfort andanti-R_S_I_ and that's about it .Project Manager: Alright , thank you very much .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Good work everyone .Marketing: {vocalsound} Bravo {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Alright . And so now that we've we have a prototype , uh we need to go over the finances and seeing if this prototype matches uh what our budget can handle .Industrial Designer:Mm-hmm .Project Manager: So , I have something I'm going to {disfmarker} Oh wait a minute .Marketing: You want the {disfmarker}Project Manager: Do you need to do a presentation first ?Marketing: {vocalsound}I don't know what order it goes in .Project Manager: Yeah . I'm gonna check that out for a second .Marketing: I have one .Industrial Designer: Mm go {disfmarker}Project Manager: What time is it anywIndustrialDesigner: {gap}Project Manager: Oh yeah sorry you're right . Evaluation criteria is next in line .Marketing: Evaluation cri Okay . That's me .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Hello . Oh there we go . Okay . Come onmy computer . Come on . {vocalsound} Sorry my computer's giving me technical difficulties .Project Manager: Just press um function eight again .Marketing: Should I press it again ? Last time I did that it sh Okay .You're right .Project Manager: And then again I think . One more time .Marketing: Oh . Still not there .Project Manager: Yeah . Yeah .Marketing: Okay now I think for this one I could {disfmarker} Would you guys preferuse the whiteboard or mayb maybe I'll just do it on {disfmarker} right on the screen where you can see it . Um , we're gonna be doing an evaluation report together based on the protoptype that we've just seen . Umand looking looking back at my notes from our {disfmarker} both our conceptual and our functional meetings , um I made a list of what our original requirements and goals were , um , back to our kick-off meeting thismorning . Um , and we'll evaluate as to whether we've s done what we set out to do . Um and we're gonna do it on a one to seven scale where one is true and seven is false . So basically the lower p the lower the pointsthe better . {vocalsound} Okay so question number one . Does the remote {disfmarker} whoops . Sorry . Oh I'm not gonna be able {disfmarker} um , I'll do it on the whiteboard . I can't change it so I'm g I'm gonnaask you to push it down once .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: I'll write down our scores up on the {disfmarker}Project Manager: Ooh .Marketing: Okay so number one . Do we have a fancy look-and-feel ?IndustrialDesigner: Feel I think .User Interface: Mm .Industrial Designer: We've been quite successful with the rubber coatingProject Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: and {disfmarker}Project Manager: The look is a little bitmore playful .User Interface: Well {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah I guess that depends on your definition of fancy , but it's definitely different .Project Manager: Ohdefinitely different yeah .Marketing: It's not your traditional {disfmarker} yeah .Industrial Designer: I think the colour has a lot to do with it . I mean {vocalsound} th the colours we were given for making the prototypearen't the colours that I think we would've necessarily chosen .Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: It's not the kind of {disfmarker} ooh uh at all sleekProject Manager: Oh you were onlygiven red and black ?Industrial Designer: {disfmarker} red , black and yellow , and orange .Project Manager: Oh okay .User Interface: Yeah {vocalsound} so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Um{disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} not very sleek and we don't wanna go for black because most remote controls are black or grey .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: So we want it to be stand out that way ,anyway .Project Manager: Yeah . Okay .Industrial Designer: But if you can imagine that in like a s just a {disfmarker} maybe uh a kind of pale metallic-y finish or something {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah . Ametallic-y finish we were thinking .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well I know know it's for rubber .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: I mean diff if you can visualise this in nicecolours I think it would look quite fancy . {vocalsound}User Interface: Polished . Okay {disfmarker} Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah . I kinda {disfmarker} I like the potato look .Project Manager: It'smango . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Oh well , potato , mango , fruit and veg .User Interface: {vocalsound} We we were {vocalsound} we were thinking about {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing:It's very different . It's what ?Project Manager: It's mango . {vocalsound}Marketing: Oh sorry the mango the mango look .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Potato's fine . Potato's fine .User Interface: yeah .Marketing:{vocalsound} Yeah it is , fruit or vegetable depends on your mood .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah . Totally . It's really adaptable .Marketing: So I myself would say a one or a two .ProjectManager: Yeah . I would say two . Personally .User Interface: I w I'd say two I think .Marketing: It's a two ?Industrial Designer: For theMarketing: Okay ,User Interface: Fanciness .Marketing: and pProject Manager:Yeah .Industrial Designer: fancy {disfmarker}Marketing: One being true . So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I {disfmarker} uh two , three . {vocalsound}Marketing: Two .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Okay , actuthat's pro that's gonna get confusing , like that . Okay so question number two was {vocalsound} is it techn technologically innovative ? So I know we have the kinetic energy which is very innovative .Project Manager:Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah and the use of the rubber .Marketing: {vocalsound} Use of the rubber , the use of the L_E_D_ .Industrial Designer: For the anti-R_S_I_ .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: The L_E_D_ use isn't particularly innovativeMarketing: Isn't {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: and we don't have any scroll buttons , it's all pushbuttons ,User Interface: Mm .Industrial Designer:there's no L_C_D_ control , so if we're thinking about the rest of the market , it's sort of probably halfway .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: In some aspects it is , like we said .ProjectManager: Yeah . I'd say maybe three .User Interface: I'll go for three as well .Marketing: Yeah . And I think {disfmarker} I mean it it's tough to say because we were {disfmarker} we didn't want it to be any moreinnovative than this , because then that would've defeated the purpose .Project Manager: Yeah we want it simple .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Though it was our specification .User Interface: No . Wouldn't be simple ,yeah .Marketing: So I mean I {disfmarker} we'll put three , but I think we actually reached our goal .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound} We didn't want it any more than that . Okayquestion number three . Uh , will it be easy to use ?Project Manager: I think so . Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Yeah .User Interface: Yeah very .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: I think one for that .Marketing: Yeah. S YeahProject Manager: Yeah . One .Marketing: I think it's {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: you can't really get confused with that .User Interface: No .Project Manager:ThMarketing: I mean , there'll be s we have to work out the uh number {disfmarker} the plus system .Project Manager: The plus number thing .User Interface: Yeah that's the only thing yeah .Marketing: But oncethat's figured out , it should be fine .Industrial Designer: Yeah and perhaps the turning on but {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Number four . Is this a good-looking remote ?Industrial Designer: Mm.Marketing: Remember that seventy five percent of users find most remote controls ugly .User Interface: {vocalsound} It's definitely {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Again I think the colour comes into this .ProjectManager: Yeah colour will definitely be a factor .Marketing: Mm-hmm {vocalsound} .Project Manager: I think that the logo could be smaller .Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: And maybe not such aprominent way .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Maybe like at the bottom , kind of .User Interface: But the {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Not in {disfmarker}User Interface: Remember the management saidthat it it had to be prominent .Project Manager: Oh it just had to be on there I guess .Marketing: Whoops .User Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound}Marketing: Should just not touch it .Project Manager:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Don't worry . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} This time it's the three I killed . {vocalsound} I was just wondering if it should be like flatter . Or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer:I suppose I've got quite big hands .Project Manager: I like the appeal of it being like a big glob in your hand .Marketing: Well {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: But youknow what I've just thought of there now . What {disfmarker} where's it gonna sit in your living room ? Is it not gonna fall off the arm of the sofa ?Project Manager: Maybe if the bottom was just sort of flat , and thenthe rest is likeMarketing: Yeah the bottom could be like ch chopped a bit .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: round .User Interface: But then it wouldn't sit as comfortably in your hand {vocalsound} .Marketing: Oh"}
{"doc_id":"doc_76","qid":"","text":"User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay . {vocalsound} Yeah . That's okay . That's okay .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: Am I starting now ? Anytime ? Oh sorry .'Kay , um . Alright , welcome back fro to the second meeting . And um I hope you had a productive last thirty minutes .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um , and um , I'll be taking minutes on this one ,and um {disfmarker} Being hooked up to the PowerPoint for this meeting isn't very necessary for uh myself , because it'll be more about uh , what you guys are bringing to the meeting today . Um , so , the firstpresentation we'll be looking at is Poppy's presentation . And , um {disfmarker} So , sorry ? So , um , take it away Poppy .Industrial Designer: Okay . Um , do I need to {disfmarker} {gap}Project Manager: It's , it'splugged in . So , um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: plugged in .User Interface: F_ eight , w . Function F_ eight .Industrial Designer: F_ okay . Function F_ eight . Sorry about this guys .Project Manager: No problem.User Interface: {gap}Industrial Designer: 'Kay . {gap} is on . Right . {gap} Okay . I will take this time just to apologise .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I , I only , uh , received my emails later on .'Cause I was too busy carried away doing my own thing ,Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: which is not obviously not a very good part of a team-working thing .User Interface: {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: But there we go .Project Manager: I'm sure it's fine .Industrial Designer: Um , so I was looking at how we're going to go about the working design , and what we actually need to do , and what the remotecontrol needs to do . And it needs to um allow a person to have a portable desi device , so they can control the television from wherever they are . They don't need to actually manually touch the television set . So , itgives them much more flexibility , and allows them to be where they want to be . Um , from {disfmarker} Uh , on a functional side of things , we found out that wh from our previous meeting , we decided that there'recertain points that will make our product unique . Um , one is the visibility in the dark , which was um Genevieve's idea . So we need to think about how we could bring this in um technically . And we could useilluminated buttons , which we are all familiar with when we're using a mobile phone , or um something fam familiar . A automatically , um lights up at first touch . Or we could use fluorescent materials which would justum take in the light during the day , and then as soon as they go off they would glow in the dark . Um , also we could use um an alarm . So if we lost the um remote control , perhaps there could be a button on thetelevision set itself , which you could press , and then an alarm from the handset would sound where it was , hopefully in the room . Maybe behind a cushion or somewhere .Project Manager: {vocalsound}UserInterface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Um , so that would work . Um , oop . Go back there . Um , another thing I think we d missed out on on the last meeting was the fact that we should consider theenvironmental impact of our design . Um , from previous researches I've carried out on other projects , um we've learnt about smart materials where um um specific alloys of metals have a shape memory .UserInterface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So they can be heated and um and cooled , and they change the shape of um the metal . So , for example , a screw that's holding somethingtogether could expand and it would force all the components apart . So um , the benefits of this for our product would be that when it came to the end of its product life , if it was heated , um everything would springapart . So , all the um individual components could be easily separated , and then some could be reused , some could be recycled , and I think that would be very important for products now . Especially 'cause there'smuch uh responsibility for all the um companies who are coming up with like new designs . 'Cause all , we all know that our resources are being limited , and we have to be very environmentally conscious .ProjectManager: Right , um , one question . This , um , self-destructible uh metal , it allows for recycling materials ?Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: So that , um , someone could have this product for as long asthey felt that they wanted it , and then once they contribute it , then that company can break down the part , the parts better ?Industrial Designer: Um {disfmarker} And then {disfmarker} Yeah . Yeah they would , umyou would make the , the product as you normally would , apart from the , the bits that hold it all together would be made out of this shape-memory alloy . And that's the part that would um allow all the other parts tobe separated at the end . I mean , the user would return the p product to the company , 'cause it's the product's responsibility to get rid of what they've made . Um , and then the company could then just use , makeuse of this shape-memory alloys to split up the components ,Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: and then either reuse some bits , and other bits which are obviously gonna wear out with time , or not usable ,they might be like be able to put into scrap metal . Something like the case , if it's scratched or something , you would want to reuse it , but you might be able to melt it down and reuse it again somewhere else .ProjectManager: Mm-hmm . Would we be the company that would break down these , or uh metals ? Or would we contribute to another group ?Industrial Designer: You could {disfmarker} we could probably empl em employa , a side company or something to do that for us . But it would be our responsibility to get that done and to dispose of the products that we made . For a certain percentage at least .Project Manager: Alright .IndustrialDesigner: Not every , not a hundred percent of everything we produce ,Project Manager: Okay . This sounds like a really great idea .Industrial Designer: but {disfmarker}Project Manager: One thing we have to consideris our uh one hundred percent um turnover goal that we have for our financial sector .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Yeah .Project Manager: Um , so we'll have to investigate how much that will cost us , cost the company,Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: um 'cause it sounds very labour-intensive . You would have to hire a number of people , and it might be more expensive .Industrial Designer: Well I {disfmarker} the fact ofthe shape-memory alloys is that they , they don't need to be manually de um deconstructed . Like , you don't have to individually um unscrew all the screws . Because of this , their properties are smart material .ProjectManager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: All you need is just the heat , so they self-destruct themselves .Project Manager: Alright . We'll still have to investigate the financial implications .Industrial Designer: So Isuppose it does need like high contact , yeah , you know high uh quality machinery , and very specific machinery , but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Alright . I like the environmental approach . Um , we'll have to see ifthat can meet our financial goals as well .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Okay . Um also there is um components . This'll be how it uh will actually work . But I haven't put this plan together yet .Project Manager: I'm sorry ,could you {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: There we goProject Manager: Those were um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: . Sorry , should I go back . This would actually show the circuit diagram . Although I haven'tcome up with the final circuit yet .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: So I just {gap} put all those components in .Project Manager: So those are what , um , we'll c construct the remote . Those are all the{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah . I it just shows what sort of energy source . It could be a battery , like rechargeable probably . Um , an' yeah , well how the infrared will actually be sent through the chip to bereceived by the chip on the television set itself .Project Manager: Alright . Great .Industrial Designer: Okay ? So , now is it F_ eight again to escape ? Or escape ? There we go . Okay .Project Manager: Alright . Thankyou very much . And , um , the next presenter will be Tara .Industrial Designer: Thank you .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: There you go Tara .User Interface: Thanks . Can you see ?Marketing: Oh ,{vocalsound}User Interface: Do you think {disfmarker} Is it uh , function eight yeah ?Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Function F_ eight .Marketing: {vocalsound} Function F_ eight .Project Manager:Function F_ eight . Sorry .Industrial Designer: The one at the top .User Interface: Oh right . Okay .Marketing: That looks right .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Okay . I'm the User {vocalsound} um UserInterface Designer . Uh , the technical functions design of the apparatus is the effect the apparatus should have . Um , in this case it's the function of the remote control , which is to send messages to the television ,television set . By taking inspiration from other similar designs , we'll try and come up with an original trendy remote control , which is sellable international . There're two functional design options . A multifunctionalremote control , which can be used for several entertainment devices . And a single function remote control , used specifically for the television . {vocalsound}Marketing: I'm sorry , what was that last one .Multifunctional and {disfmarker}User Interface: Sorry . Um , a single function just for the television itself .Marketing: Ch Oh , I see .User Interface: Yeah . Um , multifunctional controls can be difficult to use , as themultitude of buttons can be confusing . A single function remote control is simpler to use , but it means you have to have other remote controls for your other entertainment devices .Marketing: 'Kay .User Interface: Um, I think that a single function remote control would be preferable , because it's easier to use . It'd be more compatible with a range of television sets , making it more internationally sellable . Um , it will make anoriginal design more obtainable , as we have less functional necessities to include in the design . And it would be more profitable as it would be more simplistic . And less functions would have to be included . So it wouldbe cheaper to make . And probably more sellable just because it's more compatible with a r a wider range of devices . Does anyone have any questions ? {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} So as far as we know ,um , a single function television remote control is us usable internationally ?User Interface: Well , it's just that , when we're creating it , we're , we have to make it um compatible with different brands of devices.Marketing: {gap} Right .User Interface: And it would be easier to make it compatible with just different brands of television devices rather than other ent ,Marketing: D_V_D_s and V_C_R_ ?User Interface: yeah,Project Manager: Right .Marketing: Okay .User Interface: other entertainment devices .Project Manager: Does everyone agree with this ? Does anyone object and , and find the multifunctional might be a better way togo ?Industrial Designer: Um , {vocalsound} I was just wondering about the , what , what Genevieve said before , about having like some hidden controls like having the outer casing . And that would probably , um , I d, well well what you said before about it being a more profitable simplistic design . I suppose having that would complicate it a lot more .User Interface: Yeah . Yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} And limit thedesign {gap} . Do you think ?Marketing: Yeah , I think I agree with the single design thing for now , because we're trying to do so much , that if we're trying to make a unique , user-friendly , dadada , and it's also multialso multifunctional , um , we're gonna go over budget for one thing .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Yeah . That's true . Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface:Yeah . And with this we'll have more room in the budget probably to make a more original design .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: We'll have more money to go into the design side of it.Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Okay . Yeah .Project Manager: Alright . Sounds great .Marketing: Mm , 'kay .Project Manager: Alright , well , um ,Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: are you readyfor your presentation Genevieve ?Marketing: Yes I am .Project Manager: Fabulous . Except you're not hooked up to the {disfmarker}Marketing: Oh ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: I'm not hooked up , butother than that , completely ready . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Great .Marketing: Okay . Okay . Oh . I just lost my microphone .Project Manager: {gap} No problem ,Marketing: Just a moment .ProjectManager: we can {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay . So I'll be discussing the functional requirements of this remote control . Um , and I'll give you a little briefing on what that means exactly . Um , if you all remember fromthe email we got before our very first uh kick-off meeting , with the coffee machine ? The functional requirements of that was to produce hot coffee quickly . Um , so what I'll be talking about now is the equivalent for aremote control . Um , so basically what needs and desires are to be fulfilled . Um , I've done some marketing research , a lot of interviews with remote control users , um , and some internet research . And I'll show youmy findings . Oh , and firstly I wanted to remind you about our company motto and purpose . So we believe in providing international market with fashionable products . Um , hence our motto , we put the fashion inelectronics . So I think that should be our priority here . Um , and we should also be looking to trends in clothing and interior design . Not just in electronic fashion . So that it's something that fits in the household.Project Manager: I'm sorry , what was that last thing that you just said ?Marketing: Um , we should be looking towards trends in both clothing and interior design .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Any trendsthat are going on in , in the public , even media ,Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: you know who's famous , what T_V_ shows are being watched ,Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: um , to influence our remotecontrol . Okay , so the findings . Um , seventy five percent of users of remote controls find them ugly . Which is a , quite a significant number .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Um , the other twenty fivepercent didn't specify if they love them or found them , you know , neutral . Eighty percent of users would spend more money when a remote control would look fancy . Current remote controls do not match well theoperating behaviour of the user .Project Manager: I'm sorry , that eighty percent of users would spend more money when a remote control would look fancy . You mean that they would spend more money on afancy-looking remote control ?Marketing: Yeah , they're willing , they're willing to spend money on a remote control with personality .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: As opposed to your basic , you know , oval black, all same size button remote control .Industrial Designer: Mm . Yeah .Marketing: Um , so it is something that people care about . It's not , it's not ignored in the household . Um , seventy five percent of remote controlusers said that they zap a lot . Zapping meaning they go through channels a lot .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Marketing: They're you know thumb-masters . Um , and fifty percent of users say they only use tenpercent of the buttons . That A very small amount . Thought that was interesting .Project Manager: Alright , so it might be very appealing if , um , we have very concise buttons .Industrial Designer: Mm . {gap} thesingle function .Project Manager: And another thing with um lots of surfing , we'd probably have to work on something that could be um a lot more durable ,Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: because I findwith um channel-changers that , um , a lot of the numbers get rubbed down if they're printed on the button .Marketing: Yes .Industrial Designer: Yeah that's a good point .User Interface: Yeah . Yeah .Marketing: Andactually to go with that , I'm gonna give you some statistics on the uh relevancy of the buttons , how much they're used . And uh how important the uh users find them . So the power button , obviously , in an hour isonly used once . Hopefully the person's not turning on and off the T_V_ . Um , but the relevance of that button is nine out of ten . So people wanna be able to turn on the T_V_ with the remote control . Um , as opposedto standing up and turning on the television set . Channel selection is used a hundred and sixty eight times on average per hour .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: That's a huge amount . This is the mostimportant button . Um , so obviously when commercials come on they're changing it , so as you said we want a durable button that's not gonna run down . Relevance of that button , our users found was uh ten , ten outof ten . Uh , ditto for volume selection , so ten out of ten . And it's used on average four times an hour . Not as much as channel selection , but still significant . Um , audio settings is used on average zero point eighttimes an hour . Relevance is two . Screen settings , which means brightness , colour etcetera , zero point five times an hour . Um , and relevance of one point five . We're getting to specific statistics here . Teletext , um, now I'm not too clear on what that is . I don't know if you can help me . Flipping pages .User Interface: It's um {disfmarker}Marketing: Is that {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: It's like the news . Or like information.User Interface: It has {disfmarker} T_V_ has like information , it has information on holidays , the news , entertainment .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: The {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's um{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: and what's on .Marketing: So like a running banner , underneath {disfmarker}Project Manager: No it's a button that you press , and then you , uh , like a menu pops up .User Interface:No , li Yeah .Project Manager: I haven't used it beforeUser Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: but {disfmarker}Marketing: Oh .Industrial Designer: It's like {disfmarker}User Interface: And you have page numbers likefor the menu , and you press the page numbers with your remote , and it , it'll come up .Industrial Designer: It's like very basic internet . Sort of ,Marketing: Okay .User Interface: Very basic internet , yeah .IndustrialDesigner: um {disfmarker}User Interface: But you have {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay . Like tells you the weather , and {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah . But you have no interaction back with it , you know.Marketing: Okay .User Interface: Like the internet you can send emails and {disfmarker} You've no interaction .Industrial Designer: Yeah , it's just information that um , like television timetables , what's on , what's onnow , what's on next , on every channel , and {disfmarker}Marketing: Right .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Alright . Well I guess I'm not with it , because I wasn't {disfmarker} But it's , it's being used fourteen timesan hour . Um , and has a r a high relevance of six point five . So it looks like something that we're gonna want to do some research on and include on our remote control .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Um , channel settings . Zero point zero one times an hour . Relevance of three . Channel settings .User Interface: Uh , probably just tuning in the channels , would it be ?Marketing: P Sorry . Changing thechannels ?User Interface: Tuning them in at the very start . You know if you get a new T_V_ set , you tune in all the channels ,Industrial Designer: To get the right reception and picture , I suppose .User Interface: doyou th do you think ?Marketing: Oh , okay .User Interface: Yeah . Yeah .Marketing: Yeah . Okay .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: Um , so it's not used very often , but people still find it relevant . Okay . Um , biggestfrustrations of uh the people that we interviewed . Remote controls are often lost somewhere . So that was already discussed by Poppy . How we could have a , an alarm system so that people can find it . Um , takes toomuch time to learn how to use a new remote control .Industrial Designer: {gap}Marketing: So it should be very user-friendly , you know . People know what to do very quickly . Um , remote controls are bad for R_S_I_. {vocalsound} {gap}Industrial Designer: Repetitive strain injury .User Interface: Repeti Uh .Marketing: Ah .Industrial Designer: I think .Marketing: Is that what it is ? People with arthritis and such ?Project Manager:That's rather sad . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Um , maybe ourIndustrial Designer: Oh , I'm guessing that's"}
{"doc_id":"doc_77","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Okay . {vocalsound} Well , let's start . What are we doing ? Oops . {vocalsound}User Interface: Hmm .Industrial Designer: Ah , pinball .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay . Okay . Not doing.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm . Ah . Hey . {vocalsound} Ah .Project Manager: Uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Oh .Marketing: Now Ihave my screen back too . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Very good .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager:{vocalsound} {gap} we have presentations . So first , it's your turn .Industrial Designer: {gap}User Interface: Mine . Oh , great .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah . Isn't it amazing . {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: Huh . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah . Very interesting .User Interface: Uh {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager:Industrial Designer . Interface concept .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yes , well uh let's uh talk about the interface uh concept . Uh , first I'll uh I'll uh discuss the buttons we just chose , uh show you some samples , uhuh discuss some colours and design maybe , already . And uh my personal preferences . {vocalsound} Well we chose the power button to switch the television on and off . The bu uh the mute button to switch thevolume on and o on and off . The channels buttons , one to nine , and uh off uh uh zero to nine , and the uh button to choose uh higher channels than nine . Uh the volume and channel quadrants , uh left and right , upand down arrows , to uh do the volume and channel . And the menu menu button to man manipulate the L_C_D_ uh display . Um , I found some uh interesting uh uh samples . Examples .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}User Interface: Um , well uh what's pretty standard is uh that it's {disfmarker} that they're all pretty uh uh high uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Large .User Interface: Yeah . Yeah . Large and and and prettythin and uh and long .Marketing: A lot {disfmarker} a lot of buttons buttons .User Interface: Um , power buttons are mostly at the top uh left or right . Um , well we see the the the same uh arrows . Like there . And uh{disfmarker} Yeah , well arrow b buttons can be blue . And what's interesting is the the the icons on the buttons . Some buttons have icons like the play and stop , but we don't use that . But uh , these we we have tochoose the right icons , or or letters . Uh this is the V_ for volume , but they're both uh a V_ .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: So it's it's not really very uh clear what's the function of that .Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: Um {disfmarker} Yeah . So , that's {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Can you go back one page ? For the uh menu , what do we use for that ? We don't have buttons for the menu .UserInterface: Uh , well {disfmarker}Project Manager: Or we may have to use channel of the volume and channel {gap} .User Interface: Yeah . I thought that was our uh idea .Project Manager: Okay . But {gap} uh{disfmarker}User Interface: So , uh how {disfmarker}Project Manager: You have to put it on the {disfmarker}User Interface: Like this .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Or or this . And that the menu button isokay .Project Manager: Yeah but , has to be clear that you can use the arrows .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah , okay .Marketing: Yes .User Interface: Uh , so the {disfmarker} The icons on the arrows , as well , youmean .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Yes . The second one .User Interface: Yeah . Uh , well that's something to uh think about . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: Uh , maybe I'll have somethingin my uh presentation . And you will see it .User Interface: Okay .Marketing: Okay . {vocalsound}User Interface: Um , well I don't I don't know if we have to discuss this already , or in the next uh meeting .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}User Interface: But uh , as we have to uh to to design the the case and the whole uh remote control in our uh our our corporate uh company uh uh colours and the logo , I would uh recommend ayellow case . Uh , round edges . The logo at the bottom . And uh , well maybe each each uh set of buttons uh has uh has his own colour . So , it's good . Uh , recognisable . K so , I think .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Not too much colours .User Interface: Uh , no . Not too much .Project Manager: No , it's not flower power .User Interface: But uh {disfmarker} No , no , no . But this has to be has to be trendy and uh {disfmarker} and{gap} {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Project Manager: S okay .User Interface: Uh , yeah so good uh good icons on the buttons , and uh and big buttons is my uh personal uh opinion .Project Manager: Okay .UserInterface: That was that .Project Manager: Thank you . So , you're next .Industrial Designer: I'm next , okay . {vocalsound} Yes . No . Here we go .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Uh , at first we will uh I will f uh say something about what younger people want ,Marketing: {gap} Okay .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: ouruh group w uh w uh we want to uh sell our remote controls to . And then , I'll discuss what my opinion is about the costs , about uh what battery is in it , what kind of buttons also . First uh , the younger people , theywant like soft mat uh materials and primary colours . Like , totally yellow , totally red . Uh , so it's visible . Uh , the shapes are curved and round , like uh you also said . Maybe it's nice to uh get a remote control not likeall the other ones , straight and uh flat and long . But to give him the shape of your hand , so you {disfmarker} it's easier to use or something like that . But that's just an idea . And then , I'll have to discuss about thecosts uh of all the things for the remote control . The battery , there are few options . Uh , I think the best option is to use uh the basic battery . So , everybody can buy it uh at the at the supermarket . Or use uh a k uhkinetic battery like uh within a watch . When you uh shake it a few times , it it's loaded . Uh , the the form of the remote control , I think it's also nice {gap} have it curved . And maybe like it's hand-shaped . Uh , so uhyou take it here in your hand and here are the buttons . Uh material , you use plastic . Hard plastic uh because uh {gap} it won't have to burst uh like in the {disfmarker} in one time . And also rubber because theyounger people like that , what we see in the research . Uh the push-buttons . We have one new thing uh discovered . It's a scroll push uh thing like a mouse . Maybe it's uh easy to use uh for the channels . When youwant to go m move up , you just scroll up and click on the button , if you wanna see the next , uh if you wanna see that channel . And also for the mouse , uh for the volume , it's also uh easy to use . Just scroll a bit up, scroll a bit down . And that's also easy just w when you have a thing like this , and you get it here . You can do it with your thumb . And with your l left hand you can uh push the buttonsMarketing: Hmm .IndustrialDesigner: uh if you {gap} push uh channel one , you can see channel one . The electrics um with a scroll push uh button , we must use regular uh chips . There are also uh simple chips . They are uh cheaper . Um , butthen we have just a basic uh uh remote control , and I think there are a lot of those uh things , and people won't buy it any more . They have seen enough of it . And you have also advanced um chips . But that's withthe L_C_D_ uh screen . And the costs will increase a lot more . And I think our budget is too low to use and an L_C_D_ , and the chip who is more expensive . And maybe it's also then uh thoughtful if we u uh use uh asum different kind of uh shapes for the {disfmarker} for remote control , that we then use the primary colours . Like , you get a yellow uh remote control , red one , blue one , et cetera . You have any more questionsabout this ? I think the main thing is we look at the costs .Marketing: Yep .Project Manager: Hmm .Industrial Designer: And not too basic , not a basic remote control , who everybody already has .Marketing: Yeah . But, thi i uh {disfmarker} This is with an L_C_D_ ? No ,Industrial Designer: Not with an L_C_D_ .Marketing: not .Project Manager: No , isn't .Industrial Designer: No .Project Manager: But the L_C_D_ is easy when you usethe scroll uh buttons . Then you can scroll , you see what number , and then you push .Industrial Designer: Yeah . But then , what I say , the costs will uh get a lot higher .Project Manager: But then it's not easy to usescroll uh wheel . If you don't {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Th then you'll see it on the television .Project Manager: Hmm , yes . But then . Yeah , then you go one down one up . When you scroll .Industrial Designer:but l when you see a menu uh on the television , it's like you see uh one to twenty , you go uh uh s scroll up , and push number tw twenty . YeahProject Manager: but like we said before , it has to be used on everytelevision . Yeah So you may not be uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: No . The television must do that . So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm . Yeah , I think the youngerpeople will have newer televisions , which can provide our uh remote control .Project Manager: Yeah but young people have to have all their uh room . And mostly they are smaller . So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer:Yes . But that won't be a problem . I think .Project Manager: Most the times that are not advanced televisions .Industrial Designer: No , but then we'll get to the regular uh remote controls .Marketing:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: And I think , what I said , everybody has them uh has them already . And they go to a uh supermarket and buy them uh for two Euros . Uh , and ge and get the most cheapest uh thing. And I think we must look further to uh to devel d develop something news .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Uh , can you give an indication in b uh in the cost difference between uh the chip with L_C_D_ or without?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I got it on my screen and it was uh higher . But I don't know uh how much higher . {vocalsound}Marketing: 'Cause it {disfmarker}Project Manager: That's important .Marketing: Ithink if we have an L_C_D_ , it will also sell a lot better .Industrial Designer: That's true .Marketing: And that might uh bring back the costs uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: But then we'll {disfmarker} I think wemust discuss who {disfmarker} uh what will be better . If we have a better shape of the um remote control , or better options on it . With a scroll menu , a w scroll thing , and a L_C_D_ . And then a flat um remotecontrol . Or , a more hand-shaped remote control , with scroll , without L_C_D_ .Project Manager: Yeah . Maybe you can look how how much it is for the L_C_D_ .Industrial Designer: I can uh look on my uh{disfmarker} {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} It's very important .Industrial Designer: {gap} Uh {disfmarker} Note that the push-button requires a simple chip chip . A scroll wheel requires minimally aregular chip , which is a higher price range . The display requires a advanced chip , which is which in turn is more expensive than the regular chip .Project Manager: Yeah , more expensive . But how much ?UserInterface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Doesn't say . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Oh .User Interface: Hmm .Marketing: Huh .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: That's from mymanufacturing division .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: 'Kay . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Well , thank you .Industrial Designer: Yes ?Marketing: My turn ?ProjectManager: Next .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Mm . So {disfmarker} So {disfmarker} Yeah . So , my uh presentation is about trend-watching . Uh , I did some trend-watching . It's veryimportant to uh keep up with latest trends . {vocalsound} 'Cause if you don't , you won't sell . So , well how we did do that ? Uh , well we made an investigation of the market , by Trendwatchers . They uh watch in uhcities like uh Paris and Milan . Of course , well known for their uh trend {disfmarker} uh trends . And well , uh what did you find ? Uh , we have two groups , young and trendy , and the old and rich . Well th and theyoung and trendy , they uh they starting to like uh fruit and vegetables uh as a theme for n uh clothes , shoes , and also uh products . And um , material ? That should feel {disfmarker} have uh a spongy feeling . Andto get a feeling for what it is , uh here is an image of it . Then the old and rich . They like uh dark colours , and simple , recognisable shapes .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: And um , they also like uhfamiliar material , uh especially wood . Now , another picture .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: To get a feeling for this . Well , uh then already come to my personal preferences . We uh aim at the youngermarket . So , we should also be uh look at their uh trends . However , with trends it's always if there's {disfmarker} it's now . It it it might last one year , and next year it be {disfmarker} uh can be totally different .And I think we want to sell our product for longer than one year . So , we m must not just only look at what the trend is now , as it might be totally different next year . So , that's uh one thing to keep in mind.Industrial Designer: Changing covers . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah . Any questions ?Industrial Designer: Nope .Project Manager:No . It's clear .User Interface: No .Project Manager: So now , it's uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Ah , let's see . Now , w we have to decide {vocalsound} Well , we have to decide on the concept . So , we have to look at{disfmarker} 'S next . Components and user interface concept . So {disfmarker} Now , we have to make some concept . Maybe one of you can paint it on the board . First , uh user interface .Industrial Designer: Uh ,uh-uh . How w how we how we make it ? Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yes , a concept on uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Just{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Shouldn't we first discuss about like what w we all {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah , but maybe we can paint it . Uh , what do we want ?IndustrialDesigner: Yeah , but if I paint with {disfmarker}Project Manager: I'll paint . Okay .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm .Project Manager:Something like this ? Or {disfmarker} Shapes or {disfmarker} What do we need ?User Interface: Mm , yes . What ?Marketing: Can make several uh concepts .Project Manager: Yes , okay .Marketing: We have this , andwe had the idea of an um a more uh uh uh like sh in the shape of your hand .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: More like something {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah I I I uh {disfmarker} yes . {vocalsound}UserInterface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: M like {disfmarker} Yeah I can't dr I can't draw it .Project Manager: And you have to .Industrial Designer: Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}UserInterface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I have to .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: I'm not a designer . It's more {gap} three D_ . Like , um when you have a part here . This is the remote control . Andthen you have something like th this under it . So , it's easier to get it like this .User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: {vocalsound} {gap}User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}{vocalsound} It's like a gun . {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: A g {vocalsound}Project Manager: So , it has to be soft ?Marketing: Mm . {gap} .Industrial Designer: And it has tobe soft , yeah .Project Manager: Okay . And uh , the buttons ?Industrial Designer: So , you can squeeze in it and {disfmarker} Sorry ?Project Manager: Buttons .Industrial Designer: Buttons on top of it . And here . Thescrolling . You can do it with your thumb .Project Manager: {vocalsound} No , it won't .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: But but i that's the only scroll uh button on it then ?Industrial Designer: But nowwe use one scroll button and the other one is here . One till uh uh zero till nine .User Interface: Yeah , okay .Project Manager: But , well there one for the sound and one for the channels .User Interface: But but how{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: And the bMarketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah . How {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah ? Or two buttons .User Interface: Okay .ProjectManager: Uh , two scroll uh wheels .Marketing: And i if we go to uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: If uh {disfmarker} 'Kay c If we do {disfmarker} If we use one , then we'll have just a switch on it ,and you'll just switch it , and now it's the sound to switch backUser Interface: Mm .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: That's th that's more difficult .Marketing: But if we have uh a me Yeah .Project Manager: It'sbetter in {disfmarker}Marketing: If we have a menu , uh how do we uh choose other options ?Industrial Designer: with the menu uh button . And then you also can scroll uh scroll in it . Just not like all the other ones ,with uh this thing , and uh here an arrow , here an arrow , here an arrow , here an arrow .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Because uh , from h hundred uh {gap} remote controls , ninety nine have it .ProjectManager: But if we don't have a L_C_D_ we don't have a menu .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Uh , then we have it on the T_V_ , the menu .Marketing: Uh-uh .Project Manager: Yeah , but {vocalsound}again maybe th How do we know the T_V_ can handle it ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: You don't know . So , there's no menu .Industrial Designer: I don't know . It'slike some sort of uh teletext option , but we don't have teletext . {vocalsound}Project Manager: No . So you can't use it .Industrial Designer: And if we put an L_C_D_ thing on it , then the costs will uh be much higher.Project Manager: Okay , we make two concepts . One with L_C_D_ . One without L_C_D_ .Industrial Designer: 'Kay . But you all like this kind of thing . Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Good concept . But{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: With the scroll button .Project Manager: That's one .Industrial Designer: And and this one has to be soft .Marketing: Uh-uh .Industrial Designer: And this has to be harder , becausewhen it falls , it mu mu must not burst . Or some kind of rubber around it .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: It's one . Two . Number two .User Interface: And you can and you can uh make the the powerbutton as a trigger .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Like uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah . Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound} {gap}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound} Ah that's nice .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Here . Trigger . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: No . {vocalsound} But when you handle it , you putit on and off .User Interface: Just to uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Project Manager: It's not good to use .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah , but {vocalsound} I'll zap .UserInterface: Oh , like a {vocalsound} {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Fuck . Out . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: No ,it's not good .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Now , second concept . One with L_C_D_ , one without L_C_D_ . Then uh {disfmarker} Paint it . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: Paint it ?Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: With the scroll thing on , like this ?Project Manager: One with two scroll buttons and one with without . Yeah . Uh , one witha with a menu , and one without a menu .Industrial Designer: So ?Project Manager: And the one with with a menu has an L_C_D_ .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Draw it . {vocalsound}Project Manager:{vocalsound} Unbelievable .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Do I have to do everything . Blank . You have {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Not so difficult .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .User Interface: But ifyou put {disfmarker} push the the menu button {disfmarker}Project Manager: Uh , that's the menu . There for the L_C_D_ screen .User Interface: Yeah , wh what {disfmarker} Yes , but you don't know which of the"}
{"doc_id":"doc_78","qid":"","text":"Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee. We've received no apologies for absence. Can I ask Members whether there are any declarations ofinterest, please? No. Okay. Thank you. Item 2 this morning is our evidence session with the Cabinet Secretary for Education for our inquiry into the status of the Welsh baccalaureate qualification. I'm very pleased towelcome Kirsty Williams AM, Cabinet Secretary for Education; Kevin Palmer, who is deputy director, pedagogy, leadership and professional learning; and Andrew Clark, deputy director, further education andapprenticeships division. So, thank you all for attending, and we're looking forward to hearing what you've got to say. If you're happy, Cabinet Secretary, we'll go straight to questions.Kirsty Williams AM: Ofcourse.Lynne Neagle AM: And the first questions are from Julie Morgan.Julie Morgan AM: Thank you very much, Chair, and bore da. I was going to ask some general questions about the value of the baccalaureate.Could you give us your views on how the Welsh bac is valued by learners and teachers?Kirsty Williams AM: Bore da, Julie, and thank you very much for your question. Firstly, I'd like to begin by saying that I as theCabinet Secretary value the qualification very much indeed. I believe that it helps ensure that we are able to give our young people in Wales a broad and balanced curriculum, recognising the need to develop knowledgeand skills in core subjects but recognising also that the purpose of education is to help prepare our children for further study and the world of work, and I believe that the skills challenge element of the baccalaureatedoes just that. I meet with young people and teachers all the time who tell me about the positive experiences they have had studying for the Welsh bac, and much of that was evidenced in Qualifications Wales's reviewinto the Welsh baccalaureate. They did focus group work with a representative sample, and many of the learners expressed the fact that they have enjoyed studying for the qualification and have gained a great dealfrom it. I meet regularly with individuals who have been able to use their bac to successfully gain a place at university, so I believe there's a huge value for Welsh young people being able to study this particularqualification alongside the more traditional qualifications that perhaps we're all used to. I think the challenge is that, given that many people are very familiar with what a GCSE is and, as parents, we will know what thatis and many of us will have done—some of us are so old we'll have done O-levels. We know what those traditional qualifications look like, and therefore a new qualification—there's always a job of work to do tocommunicate that, if people aren't used to it, but I value it hugely. I think that, whilst there is always room for improvement—and, of course, you'll be aware of the review that Qualifications Wales undertook and thathas suggested ways in which we can further improve and refine the qualification, but I think it is a valuable piece of work for Welsh young people to undertake.Julie Morgan AM: It's great that you've been aroundlistening to learners and what they have said about it. Have you had any negative feedback?Kirsty Williams AM: Well, occasionally, of course, we do have concerns raised with us, and those concerns are similar to theones that have been raised in the Qualifications Wales review. So, for instance, we sometimes have concerns about how some students balance the Welsh bac with other qualifications they may be taking. Someteachers feed back around the workload issues associated with the Welsh baccalaureate. For some students, there may be concerns about the nature of the Welsh bac and whether that can impact negatively on theirwell-being. And, obviously, that's why Qualifications Wales have undertaken this piece of work so that we can refine, if necessary, that qualification and how we continue to look at how we ensure my belief that takingthe Welsh bac should be the norm for students but also recognising that, in some cases, there needs to be flexibility to ensure that the well-being of the student is not compromised.Julie Morgan AM: And so would yousay that it's valued by learners more or less at key stage 4 or post 16?Kirsty Williams AM: Well, I think that, as I said, the vast majority of students I meet report very positively about the opportunities that are affordedfor studying at that level. Occasionally, we hear from students who I believe think that in studying the subject they may be compromising their chances because they want to do additional A-levels, and I'm sure we'llcome on to, later on, whether universities, and whether the Russell Group universities in particular, value the qualification. But I feel that there are particular strengths. And I think what's really important, and, intalking to universities, since the qualification became graded, rather than just a pass/fail qualification—I think that added rigour since 2015 has been particularly important in ensuring that there's real value in studentsundertaking that work.Julie Morgan AM: And what about the effect that the leadership in the school has on the way that the bac is received? Have you—?Kirsty Williams AM: As always, Julie, leadership is crucial, andstudents' experiences can be very coloured by the attitude towards the teacher delivering that particular course. And, therefore, we need to continue, alongside the WJEC and Qualifications Wales, to ensure that theWelsh bac is communicated to children in a positive way, the benefits are explained to children and their parents, and, also, we need to ensure that those who are tasked with teaching Welsh bac in their schools orcolleges feel confident in their ability to do so and to ensure that students have a really positive experience of that qualification, because if you're being taught by someone who is telling you, 'Oh, I don't know why we'rehaving to do this', then, obviously that's going to colour how you feel about it. And, if I'm honest, I recently attended a youth forum, where young people from the county were discussing all sorts of issues—everythingfrom the environment to their experience in school—and I was struck by the group of year 12 and year 13 students. I specifically asked them about the bac—I always take the opportunity to ask them about theirexperience of the baccalaureate. One school, the group of students said, 'It's fantastic. We really enjoy it. It's really valuable. I'm learning a lot.' Students from a school seven miles away—just seven miles away—said,'Oh, I don't know why we're having to do this.' And I suspect that that has got more to do with how that is being delivered in their institutions than it has about the quality of the qualification. So, we need to keepensuring that those who are tasked with this see it as important, communicate that to students, and have the confidence and the ability to deliver a really positive experience.Julie Morgan AM: I think our experiences inthe committee are very similar. Within the same room, actually, we've had two completely different sets of views. So, what do you intend to do to try to ensure that there's consistent support and enthusiasm for thebac from the leaders?Kirsty Williams AM: Well, first of all, we have the design group of Qualifications Wales looking to address some of the issues that arose out of the report around ensuring that, especially from ateacher workload perspective, it's not too onerous in terms of assessment. So, there's that to do to make sure that we're not asking children to duplicate and do things over and over and over again, which, of course, forany of us, would be wearing and we would question to the value of. So, there's the design group looking at the qualification itself. We are ensuring, as part of our professional learning for teachers that—. There areexisting opportunities via the regional consortia for support for teaching of the qualification. The WJEC has resources and support available, but we will look, as we roll out our national approach to professional learning,at that the professional learning needs of those already in the system are addressed. Of course, our accreditation for our new initial teacher education is predominantly addressed at being able to deliver the newcurriculum, but, if you think about the elements of 'Successful Futures' and the skills and the knowledge and the pedagogy associated with that, it's very much in line with the Welsh baccalaureate challenge certificate.So, actually, there are opportunities via initial teacher education as well, and we continue to need to look to work with our partners to be able to reinforce why this is a worthwhile qualification. And I have to say I thinkthe best people to do that—. It's not me. I'd like to see past students of the Welsh baccalaureate being able to talk about their own experiences and why it's made a difference to them. I come across individuals forwhom their place at university has been secured by that Welsh baccalaureate, and, all of a sudden, if that's what's got you your place, it becomes a lot more valuable than perhaps it was six months before. We need tomake sure that students are aware, and teachers and school leaders are aware, of the importance that this qualification has.Lynne Neagle AM: Suzy, did you have a supplementary?Suzy Davies AM: Yes. I've got one onIT, but I'll leave that one. I just want to go back to Julie's question about whether there was a different perspective or a different sense of value for students who are post 16 and those who are pre 16. When one of thecollege leaders here was asked whether he had people coming to him in his FE college who've been through the pre-16 bac and had heard evidence or had stories of, basically, those children cobbling together their bacin the last four weeks of term before they got there, he said that yes, that is his experience. Does that worry you at all, because, of course, the whole purpose of bac is to teach skills over a period of time, and itspurpose cannot be fulfilled by getting it all done in the last term of—which year am I in?—year 11, in order to satisfy the curriculum?Kirsty Williams AM: Yes. Obviously, that's not the experience that we would wantyoung people to have, and, as someone who has had a daughter just finish year 11, that's certainly not the experience that my daughter had in her particular school, and I have another daughter who has just gone intoyear 10, where the Welsh bac has started in year 10 and it is a a two-year course in which elements are undertaken. Obviously, we will need to address, as part of the design group and the work that QualificationsWales is doing, how that is playing out in individual schools. But that would not be a positive experience; we want this to be taken in exactly the same way as we would expect a GCSE to be taught over a period of twoyears. But, Andrew, I don't know if there's anything you'd like to add from the college perspective.Andrew Clark: I think it is variable. I think that it will depend on the feeder schools to the colleges and it'll depend uponthe delivery models that are in existence in those schools. It's been around as a qualification now for about a decade, I think. There have been differences in the way that the subject has been—sorry, not the subject,the qualification has been delivered. And I think it'll be helped by a recent review by Qualifications Wales, because they're doing a survey at the moment as to different delivery models in different locations, and that,perhaps, will inform more even practice as we move forwards.Suzy Davies AM: Yes, and Estyn and consortia are looking at it as well. I don't want to cut across questions, so, thank you.Andrew Clark: No, but it's aknown issue, if you like, that various people are attempting to address and bring a more uniform mode of delivery across the nation.Suzy Davies AM: Okay, thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: We've got some more detailedquestions now on understanding, from Siân Gwenllian.Sian Gwenllian AM: Just to drill down rather deeper into the issue of the variability in the way in which the Welsh bac is provided, could you explain why you thinkthat this inconsistency is happening, and then what the impact of the inconsistency and variability is on the value that learners attach to the bac and their understanding of it?Kirsty Williams AM: I think the variabilitycan be perhaps explained by the fact that it's a new type of qualification, the fact that different schools have adopted it at different rates—Sian Gwenllian AM: Ten years?Kirsty Williams AM: Well, as I said, over thattime, there were some early adopters who have done it in a certain way, there are some people who've come later to it, who may be doing it in a different way. And, as I said, it's quite a different departure fromtraditional O-levels, from GCSE-type subjects, where there is a programme of work and a syllabus. So, it is a different nature of qualification, and, therefore, as Andrew has just alluded to, schools have approached it ina different way. We are alert to that and Qualifications Wales, crucially, is alert to that, and we are looking to ensure greater consistency in how it is delivered in individual schools. We're also aware, in the schoolsetting, in pre 16, there are some concerns about the onerousness of the workload associated with the evaluation of the students' work. Now, clearly, there is a difference between onerous and rigorous. We wrote thequalification to be a rigorous qualification for the students, but we don't want it to be jeopardised by the evaluation of it being too onerous. So, there's that balance to be struck. Again, that's one of the issues that thedesign group and Qualifications Wales are looking at. That process is a really important process, so there is the design group, but working alongside the design group, who they are testing the messages and testing theirthoughts with, is a stakeholder group, and there is also a practitioners group. So, that work by the design group is being tested with those people who have an interest: business, for instance, the world of work—is thisqualification really giving students the skills that are valued by potential employers?—but it's also testing its thinking with the practitioners, those people who will be charged with the delivery of the qualification, and Ithink that's really important to be able to get an understanding of the challenges of making sure there's a consistency, and what are the barriers to that, and what steps need to be taken to ensure a greater level ofconsistency in delivery.Sian Gwenllian AM: Is there a correlation between consistency in general? Because we know that there's polarisation in the secondary school sector between the good schools and the not-so-goodschools. And is there a correlation between—if the schools are good according to Estyn, or excellent, are they also good, excellent at delivering the bac? Is it a fundamental inconsistency across the sector that's causingthis inconsistency?Kirsty Williams AM: I don't know. I don't have that data to hand, but, of course, from next year, the bac will be a dedicated performance measure for schools. So, actually, we will be lookingspecifically at completion of the bac as part of the wider set of school performance measures. So perhaps we will be in a better position once that's formally established to be able to track progress.Sian Gwenllian AM:Because some of the evidence we've heard is that if the leadership is good around the bac in the school, well, everything else follows from that. So, it makes sense to me that it could be.Kirsty Williams AM: Absolutely.As I said, I don't have the figures to hand, but, as I said, from next year, the bac actually becomes a formal part of the performance measures for schools.Sian Gwenllian AM: Fine. I'll turn, therefore, to theunderstanding of employers of the Welsh bac and the skills challenge certificate. From the evidence that we've had, it appears that there is a problem in this area, that is, employers generally don't value thequalification. Is that your experience, and how can we improve that? How can we elicit more engagement from employers of all sizes with the value of the baccalaureate?Kirsty Williams AM: Well, the first thing to say ismy understanding of the development of the bac is that employers' voices were reflected and they were part of the process that drew up the qualification in the first place. You'll be aware of the review by QualificationsWales that found that many employers say that the skills that are developed through the baccalaureate are exactly the kinds of skills that they want young people to be acquiring whilst at school, that put them in a goodplace for looking for employment later. I would agree with you, Siân, and not just in terms of the bac, there are lots of reasons why we need greater working between education and employers. I sit down with employerorganisations to try and explore better ways in which we can work together—everything from ensuring that children have work experience opportunities through to, for instance, what more some of our companies coulddo to take up governors' roles, for instance, in our local schools, so that employer voice and that business voice are heard at a school management level. I think these things are really important. It's something that'ssometimes difficult. There are some excellent examples of really good practice where local employers work really closely with schools. I think of Sony in Bridgend doing a really, really, really good job working with theirlocal schools. In other areas, where you haven't got such a big employer, it can be difficult, can't it, for a small business that is trying to do their small business to think about, 'Oh my goodness, I've got to do somethingto help improve the education system as well.' So, I'm always looking at new ways in which we can get that working together. As I said, the Qualifications Wales design group has a stakeholder group that is helpingthem with their review into the qualification at the moment, but there are really good examples where employers and other organisations are working together. We also need to continue, I think, to communicate moreclearly with employers the nature of the qualification. Again, because it's relatively new, and the brands of the GCSE and A-level are so strong, people know what they are, unless you've either done the Welsh bacyourself or you have a son or a daughter, or a grandson or granddaughter who has gone through the process, you're probably going to be less familiar, and we need to continue to work together with the WJEC andQualifications Wales as a Government to better communicate the value of the qualification.Sian Gwenllian AM: So, you agree that there is a specific piece of work that needs to be done around employers and that theGovernment should be leading that.Kirsty Williams AM: Yes, and we are working closely with, as I said, Qualifications Wales to develop a joint communication plan, and we continue, as I said, as part of QualificationsWales's review into the nature of the qualification—employers' voices are being heard as part of that particular piece of work. But more generally, yes, I think there's more that we can do to better engage employerswith the education system in lots and lots of different ways.Sian Gwenllian AM: Okay. Thank you.Kirsty Williams AM: Not just on the Welsh bac.Lynne Neagle AM: Just before we move off this section, the variability thatthe committee has seen has been quite pronounced, really. We've been to a school where they've got a passionate and dedicated Welsh bac school leader, but then we've spoken to other schools where it's tagged on toa variety of teachers' roles, and that clearly has an impact on the way it's being taught. You said in your answer to Siân that you're trying to ensure more consistency in the delivery of it, and you referred to theperformance measures; are the performance measures the main vehicle by which you're going to ensure consistency, or are you planning to issue any more guidance to schools on how it should be delivered on theground?Kirsty Williams AM: We will need to reflect the work that Qualifications Wales is undertaking. Professional learning, I think, has a role to play as well as performance measures. So it's not just one thing that wecan do that will change this, it is a number of things—everything from the communications plan to making sure that teachers who find themselves responsible for delivering this feel confident and have had theprofessional learning opportunities to give them the skills so that they do a great job in delivering a positive experience to students. The performance measures, of course, as we know—sometimes in schools, it is thosethat make schools focus on something. So there's a wide variety of ways in which I think we can look to ensure more consistency. But, in the end, I think it is professional learning and teacher training, ITE, that willmake the biggest difference.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. And just on understanding, one of the things the young people in Crickhowell told us was that they thought the name should be changed. They felt that it wasn't"}
{"doc_id":"doc_79","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Uh 'kay . So {disfmarker}Marketing: So so so .User Interface: Put on your mic .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} So you forgot how this works again ?User Interface: Boss .Project Manager: Yep.Industrial Designer: {gap} Boss .Marketing: Maybe . Maybe maybe maybe .Project Manager: Okay so we're here to talk about the detailed design of the product , 'kay ?User Interface: Yep .Project Manager: And here'sthe agenda for this meeting . Uh I'm just gonna open , say a few boring words to start with again , and start taking minutes afterwards . You guys are gonna give us a presentation of our wonder product that I can seesome demonstrations of over there . Looks cool . And then we're gonna evaluate it .Marketing: {vocalsound} BraUser Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Then we're gonna talk about finance , and I've got alovely Excel spreadsheet that I knocked up in the last five minutes for this . And uhIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Hmm you knocked it up ?Project Manager: yep . And {vocalsound} we're gonna evaluate theproduct and close .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Got forty minutes to do this in . We should be fine . Let's try and keep this one on schedule .User Interface: Alright.Project Manager: So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Your thing is in {disfmarker} where is it ? Is it in {disfmarker}User Interface: Three , three .Industrial Designer: Thithird third third . The end product thingy . Yeah .Project Manager: Who wants it ?User Interface: Pedro can have it .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: I like {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {gap} .UserInterface: I'll help talk .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Um yeah so what we ended up with . Production costs estimated by our manufacturing department and um the research department , which is us , is uh fifteenpoint eight Euros ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: someone forgot the {vocalsound} units thereUser Interface: Unit price .Industrial Designer: yeah , uh unit price {disfmarker} unit production pricecost thing . Um we implemented the basic functions , which is just T_V_ functions plus the locator , which was one of the marketing things , cradle , scroll wheel for uh the {vocalsound} the channels , and uh weimplemented the f the the way of putting the new and revolutionary zapping , your favourite channels functionality , in the scroll .Project Manager: Zapping your favourite channels , eh ?Industrial Designer: Yeah .UserInterface: Scrolling through your favourites list .Project Manager: Oh okay okay .Industrial Designer: Zapping you know zapping .Project Manager: Ah 'kay okay , that's favourites .Industrial Designer: Maybe it's just aPortuguese thing {vocalsound} . And um yeah that was the result .Project Manager: Ah 'kay . I like the the the the logo on there as well .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: It's very prominent{vocalsound} .Project Manager: It is very prominent . So this is the {disfmarker}User Interface: So {vocalsound} here I'll give you the {disfmarker} so this is the cradle unit , and this is the actual remote itself . Um sothe scroll bar is {disfmarker} or the scroll wheel is this this green little scrolly guy here , um and then the volume controls are here and here .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Uh you've got the keypad which isthe numbers uh f from zero to nine and then ten . This is the power button . Uh we have our um {vocalsound} we have the enter button and uh what was the other button here ? This is the teletext .Industrial Designer:Start s the the start uh to to toUser Interface: The programme button ,Industrial Designer: programme yeah .Project Manager: Ah , okay I see .User Interface: yeah the programme button . So this bl this button will beused both for the favourites and for programming {vocalsound} your uh the um the type of television you wanna use . So um the plastic is the white area of this {disfmarker} of the model here , and the red area is likea rubber covering .Project Manager: It's pretty cool .User Interface: So you can see that when it lays like this or like this {disfmarker} and the buttons are all gonna be rubber , so it's pretty hard to actually damage itum {disfmarker}Project Manager: Is that {disfmarker} could that be easy to {disfmarker} for the scroll wheel to be rotated if it lands on it ?User Interface: Yeah that might be a possible a mi uh possible problem , butif you drop it {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Not helping {vocalsound} .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: yeah {vocalsound} .Project Manager: Oh well I guess it depends on the stiffness a little of it.User Interface: Yeah and it depends on if it's sliding , but I think it's pretty ergonomic . You can feel it .Project Manager: Mm . Feels good .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I take it that this is gonnabe slightly lighter in the final design as well .User Interface: Yeah of course . Well this is clay {vocalsound} .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah it's kinda cool . You have to reach alittle bit don't you .User Interface: Yeah the the power button is a bit of a reach , but I think we might scale down the final model a bit .Project Manager: Ah yeah that wouldn't make sense .User Interface: {vocalsound}These {disfmarker} this is a bit larger than it would be , but {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's cool . I'm impressed .Industrial Designer: Don't have no one to handle that .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager:And hold it so {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm that's {disfmarker}Project Manager: wh what's the marketing perspective ?Marketing: oh that's {disfmarker} oh I like it . I mean you guys gave me more than Iwas asking for , so I'm happy because we've got some really marketable features in this . Yeah I think it's good . Good good good job .User Interface: Mm Pedro can demonstrate the the paging ability .IndustrialDesigner: Yeah . So you ha you have like the the base station with um the little button for the where's my remote .User Interface: Beep beep beep .Marketing: {vocalsound} Uh plaUser Interface:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: The locator function .Marketing: I'm haProject Manager: {vocalsound} Okay .Marketing: It's great . That's great . It's a great feature .User Interface: Um beep beep beep{vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm it's impressing .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Wicked isn't it ? {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} So let me get it ,User Interface: so {vocalsound}Project Manager: if Ipress this button {disfmarker}User Interface: beep beep beep {vocalsound}Project Manager: I see . That's pretty cool . Hang on . {vocalsound}User Interface: beep beep beep {vocalsound} be shut up .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: So you can take this ho take this home with you tonight and you can push that and he'll be across town {disfmarker}User Interface: Beep beep beep{vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} I plan to do that as well .User Interface: okay . Um no no no tha that's alriProject Manager: {vocalsound} So the the two blue {disfmarker} are are those forthe the it to charge off of {disfmarker} in ?User Interface: Exactly that's exactly what those are for .Project Manager: Ah okay okay .User Interface: And um there's one other feature that we were debating , but wedecided to go against it , is um {disfmarker} you couldIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: beep beep beep {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}User Interface: we were thinking that it might be interesting to have a trigger button here because you have this finger {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah {vocalsound} it's the right shape isn't it ?UserInterface: it it's it kinda feels like there should be something there , but we couldn't figure out what button is important enough to put there . And we we don't wanna accidentally be hitting the power button like that so{disfmarker}Project Manager: But maybe if you had a trigger plus the scroll then that would get past the the problem of it landing and scrolling ,User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: 'cause then it would need to be hiton both sides {gap} .User Interface: Right . So maybe in a final design phase we might tweak that a little bit ,Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: but {disfmarker}Marketing: Uh , I can see that .Project Manager:But it's definitely got options for like different types of models and things as well based on that , hasn't it ?User Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Yep I like . Good job .Project Manager: So is that the the final colourscheme as well or ?Marketing: {vocalsound} No no .User Interface: Oh no this is {vocalsound} just what we had to work with at the time .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: So we'll leave the colour scheme up tothe marketing people .Project Manager: The {disfmarker} hmm .User Interface: {vocalsound} Careful .Project Manager: It came off . The scroll wheels , {gap} a problem with them not being sort of {disfmarker}UserInterface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I don't think the user interface guy wants to touch it anymore .Marketing: Well I mean of course , I mean {disfmarker}User Interface:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: My my s my suggestion is we're gonna go go to the silvers and blacks like most of the televisions .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: You know some blend ofsilvers and blacks .User Interface: {vocalsound} Beep beep beep . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay enough of that .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well i it's cool guys . 'Kay so arewe done with the this presentation ?User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Ja .Project Manager: Okay . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Now now .UserInterface: {vocalsound}Marketing: So you're not gonna find my uh my folder up there I gotta do mine up at the board .Project Manager: Have you ? Okay .Marketing: Yeah yeah . So {vocalsound} {disfmarker}ProjectManager: Can I not get your get at stuff from your shared folder now ?Marketing: No it's not in there because I had the computer problem and I I I cou I couldn't create it .Project Manager: Oh I see I see .Marketing: Icouldn't create it in the PowerPoint ,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: and I think I've got this really strange cable . So what I had , basically going from the PowerPoint format , is that uh yeah yeah I like this alot . Is this one of the tests is to see how we can adapt to s changing situations in the in the meeting room ?Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Nah .User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: So what we had is we had the method . That's not how you spell method , is it ?User Interface: No way .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: No A_ {vocalsound} . {gap} . {vocalsound}So this doesn't go so fast this way . And when I speak about method I speak about the marketing of the product huh . And uh to me with this product we got uh {disfmarker} we got {vocalsound} basically three thingsto market . We've got the features , we have the uh characteristics , and we have the {vocalsound} I I don't know what we would call the other part {disfmarker} what we call you know the the {vocalsound} the corpcorporate {disfmarker} Help me . The the corporation stands behind the product , okay . So the features I think {vocalsound} we got the scroll , we've got the uh the locator , we've got the durability , we've got thedependability ,Industrial Designer: It fell off .Marketing: we've got you know the features that make this a unique product . UmUser Interface: Beep beep beep .Marketing: {vocalsound} the characteristics I talk about ,we have reliability , we have comfort , we have ergonomics , we have environmentally s sensitive . Uh and the corporation , we're talking about {disfmarker} we're we're a new we're a new company . We're wanting tomake a name for ourself . We're wanting you to uh find our product so we're gonna give you a good product at a fair price . One thing I would want to to see is uh is can we can we get a lifetime uh guarantee on thisproduct , a normal use guarantee , which means that this product , for the for the life of of {disfmarker} the life use , if it should have a technical problem , that we could re replace it at no cost ? That was something Iwould be interested in . Um so {vocalsound} yeah without uh going into great details , we have a we have a product , it has the features and the characteristics , and the background , I believe , to make it marketable Ibelieve at a cost of of of thirty thirty five to to fifty Euros . We're gonna be competitive , and we're gonna we're gonna have a market niche . Um wProject Manager: Do you {disfmarker} would you a argue that thatwe're better going for the higher cost than bringing it down into twenty f five as we probably could , but lowering our profit margins ?Marketing: That that would be uh that would be I think a decision best made bycorporate um I I m for my evaluation , based on what our competition is , I th I think that that we can go after this and and and go after more of the uh exclusivity sense than the mass market sense .Project Manager:Mm-hmm . Mm 'kay .Marketing: But I'm sh I'm sure open to to market this in either direction . But you guys came up with a great product , and at that cost I think it uh {disfmarker} there's nobody else that's puttingthis this combination of of ingredients together . The only limitations I see to this is that we're focused on television only . Uh that's the only that's the only drawback I see to this . But with all of these other features Ithink people c {vocalsound} one thing I'm I'm hoping for is people are not gonna even notice . There's gonna be somebody going home and say oh sh this thing doesn't work for my D_V_D_ and my {disfmarker} but Ilike these other things , so they keep it , they don't take it back .Project Manager: And we're actually quite open to be able to expand the product for a later version with those features quite simply anyway , aren't we ?Th there's no fundamentally different technology to do that .Marketing: {vocalsound} Well one of one of the thoughts that I had is can can this unit be be produced in a way that makes it upgradable ?Project Manager:Hmm .Marketing: You know uh like like a um a sim card in a in a um in a telephone . You know is there a card in th can we make a card and so after {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: W we need we needwe need s some more buttons if it would to work on some other stuff , but {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Mm-hmm , but you follow what I'm s I'm sIndustrial Designer: We we w yeah we could getanother version of it that actually works . But uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah 'cause if if we can make this unit upgradable then we're {disfmarker} {vocalsound} yeah but then we talk about changing the warrantyconcept and everything , but that's that was just an idea I had . Uh to me the only additions {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah , the plus there's the the risk of making it unusable as well , or making it less{disfmarker} b because at the moment it's actually very straightforward to look at all the buttons , you know what they do , it's very simple , and it just works .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Mm there's a risk ofthat .Marketing: Yep . But anyway that's uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay so we can talk about finance now . So I have a little spreadsheet for us where {disfmarker} I I was wondering , you {disfmarker} whenyou talked about the fifteen point eight Euros , I was wondering how you came up with that figure ?User Interface: Well , that was just just our technical team added up the um production costs of the individual units.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay so I have bit of a spreadsheet here for this . {vocalsound} NowUser Interface: Oh .Industrial Designer: Very co very colf colourful .Project Manager: I've made a f fewassumptions here in that I'm assuming that our power adaptor we can make for a cost of four Euros ,User Interface: {vocalsound} Uh-huh .Project Manager: equivalent to solar cells , which I think is probably fairconsidering that we have in-house manufacturing of power adaptors already .User Interface: Uh-huh .Project Manager: Uh {vocalsound} and I'm assuming that the locator beacon , the you know the {disfmarker}UserInterface: Yeah .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: beep beep beep .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Can be made for {disfmarker} it sounded different that time {disfmarker} uh can be made for a similar priceto uh an L_C_ display ,User Interface: Oh , sorry . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: uh an uh {gap} {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Uh do you think that's fair coming from a {disfmarker} mthe manufacturing ?User Interface: Yeah um I do think we that we we {vocalsound} uh don't need the events chip on print , we only need the uh the regular chip on print ,Project Manager: {gap} . Okay .UserInterface: so there may have been a m miscalculation in there .Project Manager: Yep . Okay . So we're down to sixteen point four , yeah .User Interface: And we and we have a single-curved uh {disfmarker}ProjectManager: Is that a single-curved rather than a double-curved ?User Interface: Uh I think that {disfmarker}Project Manager: We're not entirely sure what single-curve versus double-curMarketing: {vocalsound} We'vegot a we've got a curve and a droop . I don't know whether that {vocalsound} .User Interface: It's single-curved ,Project Manager: You think ? OkayUser Interface: yeah .Project Manager: I'm {gap} convinced . But wesave one Euro that way , yeah ? So we come {disfmarker} bring it down to {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Fifteen point four .User Interface: See it's a little bit more than f single-curved . So yeah it's fifteen point eight ,that's where we came up with it {vocalsound} .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Well hang on .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Do don't speak so {disfmarker} it's in here , in that {vocalsound}User Interface:Okay .Project Manager: w do we have any {disfmarker} we have special form don't we ?User Interface: Yeah we do .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: So that's {disfmarker} yeah .User Interface: Ah . Whatdo you know {vocalsound} .Project Manager: But the the the {disfmarker} we haven't talked about any special colour though uh I don't thUser Interface: {vocalsound} Oh it's {vocalsound} a that's not very special ,it's pretty {disfmarker}Project Manager: if we're going for greys and silvers then I don't think we're {disfmarker} {vocalsound} O okay so we're {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} If th {vocalsound} .ProjectManager: Push-button , scroll wheel , we're {disfmarker} basically we have uh thIndustrial Designer: We don't {disfmarker}Project Manager: is this intended to be a button as well or just a scroll ?User Interface: That'sa scroll .Industrial Designer: It's a scroll .Project Manager: Just a scroll ? It's not one of the scrolls where , for example , with this one you could push it down to be a button ?User Interface: Uh no we just use it as ascroll .Marketing: Ooh .Project Manager: Okay then we have fifteen point eight Euros .User Interface: It was a pretty accurate estimate I would say .Project Manager: {vocalsound} It wasn't bad .Industrial Designer:Yes .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah {vocalsound} .Industrial Designer: We're wicked . Awesome .Project Manager: Okay so we're on to the {disfmarker}User Interface: S 's kind of s frighteningly accurate{vocalsound} .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: We're on to the pat-on-the-back part of the presentation , where we have a look at the criterias th that Paul {vocalsound} the criterion criteria that Paul hashas given us {vocalsound} , and we can use that to tell {disfmarker} How's it going ? {vocalsound} Anyone got any thoughts ?User Interface: What ?Project Manager: How how have we done today ?User Interface: Ithink we did pretty well .Project Manager: I think we did pretty well too .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: That looks pretty spectacular .Marketing: No , I think we come up with a with a attractive marketableum product and and concept .Project Manager: Any other chang uh thoughts ? Okay so th th what about um room for creativity ?Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Is it the {gap} .Industrial Designer: That wasmm-hmm {disfmarker}User Interface: Sh I think there was plenty of room .Project Manager: I {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: I think we we ended up being quite creative there .UserInterface: We got a couple innovative iMarketing: YeahUser Interface: Couple innovative ideas .Marketing: well we we we kinda broke {vocalsound} {disfmarker} we kinda at least adjusted every every criteria they"}
{"doc_id":"doc_80","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Okay , all set ? Welcome to the conceptual design meeting .User Interface: Uh , okay .Industrial Designer: Yes .Project Manager: The agenda . The opening . I'll again be the secretary and makeminutes , take minutes , uh and it will be three presentations , just like the last meeting . So um , {vocalsound} who wants to start off ? Technical uh designer again ?User Interface: {vocalsound} Again .ProjectManager: Okay .User Interface: Hmm .Project Manager: Uh , yeah . Uh , before we begin it , I want to say I've I've put the minutes of the uh second meeting in the shared folder , but they're still not uh quite okay . Ituh it uh still some technical difficulties so the the first part of the minutes are very hard to read , because there are two documents that uh were layered over each other .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing:{vocalsound}Project Manager: So {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: But uh , from now on I won't use my pen anymore , so will be p just {vocalsound} ordinary keyboard .User Interface:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh , may be better , yeah .Marketing: Keyboard work . Yeah .Project Manager: I think it {gap} will will be more uh easy for youto read the minutes .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Alright .Industrial Designer: Okay , when we talk about uh components design , um it's really about the material and the {disfmarker} and uh uh really the stuff webuild uh the remote controls of . Um , a remote control consist of uh components and the components of a remote control consist of uh properties and material . We have to choose th uh these uh wisely and it couldaffect uh uh a kind of grow of {disfmarker} in uh in buying uh the remote controls . Um , the components of a remote control are of course uh the case . Uh the properties of the case , um it has to be solid uh in hardmaterial like uh hard plastic uh with soft rubber for uh falling and and uh uh {disfmarker} yeah , it feels uh good in your hand .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Mm the buttons has to be uh solid too , andthe material is soft rubber . Uh I've got a uh email from the possibilities of Real Reaction . Um uh they're telling me that um when we build uh a remote control of um of plastic or rubber , the uh buttons have to be uhrubber too . Mm {disfmarker} It's okay . Yeah . I when we use a rubbled {disfmarker} a doubled curved case , we must use a rubber push-buttons to {disfmarker} uh the the rubber double-curved case is a is a t uhthree-dimensional uh curve in the in the design , which is uh necessary when we want to be trendy . Uh {disfmarker} UmUser Interface: Oh .Industrial Designer: the energy source , uh I've got a lot of possibilities forthat too . Um , uh the basic battery , which I thi prefer because of its uh its non uh non-depending of of of uh um {disfmarker} Uh here you have to have a hand uh {disfmarker} yeah , kinetic uh energy . Also in uh thisone , like in the watches , but a remote control can lie on a table for a day , and then you push uh a button and {disfmarker} so you don't have to uh walk with it all the all the time . Mm , solar cells are also uh a bitweird for uh remote controls .Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Um uh also the case material , uh I think that plastic is the is the best with rubber ,because uh wood or titanium would also be a bit weird .User Interface: Oh titanium is probably trendy , I think . {gap} .Marketing: That's true , I guess . Yeah .User Interface: Well , maybe a little bit expensive.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: I don't know .Industrial Designer: Uh , they don't tell anything about the cost of uh titanium .Marketing: Huh .Industrial Designer: Um the chip {disfmarker} uh the chip set uhand the board is uh all off the shelf . Also , the speaker in the remote control , when we want to retrieve it . Um , the base station is also off the shelf , all the materials and the components are uh just available in uh inour uh factory . Mm , I've told about uh the three first points . Mm , the simple electronical chip uh is is available uh with the LED transmitter uh transmitter . Uh , it's all uh off the shelf and even the speaker and thewireless retriever are all uh available in our company . Um , another possibility . I uh yeah , I looked up on was uh the L_C_D_ displays . Could be uh something special to our uh remote control , and it's possible , but itonly cost a bit more , but maybe it can be uh within the limits of twenty five Euros .Project Manager: Twelve and a half . Actually {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Ah yeah .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah ,production cost .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I th I got an email with uh some examples and it {disfmarker} these were were the most trendiest one .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: You see uh acovers , which can be {disfmarker}Project Manager: What are those , t tooth uh brushes , or soUser Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Um , I don't know . Um {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}ProjectManager: But it's actually kind of uh {disfmarker}User Interface: I {disfmarker}Project Manager: well , it resembles the design I had in mind for this projIndustrial Designer: Yes .Project Manager: You know the thecartoonish {vocalsound} Alessi kind of design .Marketing: Yep .Industrial Designer: Yes , maybe we can uh bri uh bring a couple of uh couple of types of uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: And we can we can steal theirideas .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: maybe a kind of uh whole uh um a whole set of uh different uh remote controls .Project Manager: Huh .Industrial Designer: Maybe we can bring a whole line uh withuh with a {gap} huge variety of uhProject Manager: Well , it's a possibility , too .Industrial Designer: uh house uh stuff .User Interface: Different colours also .Industrial Designer: Like uh {vocalsound} maybe radiosand uh television also uh in this in this {disfmarker} in the same style , but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Uh-uh .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah , that'll be for the future , I guess .Project Manager: Okay .UserInterface: {vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Next time we're here . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yes , because we have to uh {disfmarker} we have to {disfmarker} {vocalsound}we have to bring the logo and all the stuff uh back into it .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh , okay .Marketing: Yeah . Definitely .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: {vocalsound}Okay .Industrial Designer: Thank you . {vocalsound}Marketing: Alright .User Interface: {gap} uh {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah . That's okay .User Interface: Ah .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface:Well , I shall go to the next slide . UmMarketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: um , I still don't have any information about user requirements .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: I was thinking about just uh thebasic functions and I got uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Oh , we decided upon that in the last meeting . Didn't we ?User Interface: Yeah , but but then wh I don't know when there are new user requirements .ProjectManager: Oh , okay . Well , tha I didn't receive any new requirements or somethiUser Interface: I ha I ha I have the I have {disfmarker}Project Manager: Just {disfmarker}User Interface: nothing .Project Manager: no, but we decided to use only b basic functions only .User Interface: Well , I have here a couple of basic functions I could think of .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: I dunno if they're {disfmarker} maybe a little bitmore , but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well we {disfmarker} maybe we can think of that later . W just {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: these are the ones you already summed up in the{disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah , I I uh {vocalsound} well , I pointed them out here , just to make it a little bit easier .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Um Another function uh is {disfmarker} of course wealready discuss it on the side . Um , I don't know what costs of it . Uh , I've no idea about it . Uh , I was also looking for what you said , for {disfmarker} I got an email uh uh about uh L_C_D_ in in in front of the remotecontrol . I don't know if that's a good idea , or maybe it's a little bit too much for twelve and a half . Production .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: If we got already uh something like a base .Industrial Designer:Uh-huh .Project Manager: That might get redundant also maybe . I don't know what kind of information it would {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah , I don't know . I d I uh ju I was just thinking about it . Then I got apop-ups to go to the meeting . But {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm yeah .Project Manager: Yeah . Yeah , it's okay .Industrial Designer: Maybe we can bring t uh uh teletext to the t {vocalsound} to the remote control .{vocalsound}User Interface: The remote control .Marketing: {vocalsound} Then you {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} {gap} a little uh too {disfmarker} {vocalsound} A little bit{disfmarker}Marketing: and then you've got a flag s {vocalsound} Very big R_C_ . Yeah .Project Manager: Okay . {vocalsound} That's not {disfmarker} {vocalsound} It was not a good idea .User Interface: A little bittoo big , I think . Exactly .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Um , yeah . Well , the functions are are not more to discuss , I think .Project Manager: No .No .User Interface: It's it's just the base things we already discussed that the {disfmarker} no V_C_R_ or that kind of {disfmarker}Marketing: No .User Interface: uh , so that's very easy . Um {disfmarker}ProjectManager: But you do mention the next and previous uh button .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: {gap}User Interface: Well , that's next channel . I mean {gap} next channel .Marketing: Next channel ,previous channel .Project Manager: Oh , okay , o okay okay .User Interface: Uh {disfmarker} Um {disfmarker} oh , I I got an email with {disfmarker} {vocalsound} with an uh a remote control with a base .ProjectManager: Huh .User Interface: So , it's uh just an idea . And I um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} uh thinked of the button sizes and I'm not sure uh if they have to be big or uh just small {disfmarker}{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: But you're the expert . {vocalsound}Marketing: I think it depends on the function .User Interface: Well , I'm not a e I'm the expert for user-friendly , but not for trendiness .ProjectManager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Maybe it {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: Well , if you save uh {disfmarker} Perhaps uh s tiny buttons aren't user-friendly , then we wouldn't im implement that of course.Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Well uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: okay , that's your point . Um ,yeah . Yeah , okay .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah , I've nothing to {vocalsound} sIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well , w when we only use basic functions , we have the possibilityto make the buttons larger .Marketing: Oh , that's right .User Interface: Uh , with a little bit larger , yeah .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: I thought so , but maybe with the {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well , I thinkwe already agreed upon the fact that the the the skip buttons and the cha and the volume buttons , th th those two have {disfmarker} yeah , they have to be large .User Interface: Yeah , that groups .Project Manager:Uh , I mean th th the the two two basic buttons , you know , the {disfmarker} to skip channels and to uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Large ? Yeah .Marketing: Yep .Project Manager: I think {disfmarker} yeah , I don'tknow why , but I think that is {disfmarker} that's t trendy too ,User Interface: Most {disfmarker} the most used uh buttons .Marketing: Those are probably the the thProject Manager: because that's the mo it{disfmarker} it {disfmarker} you know , it's uh acc acc um accentu uh , how do you say it ? It puts an extra accent on the the on the simplicity of our remotes to j to make these two most basic functions extra big , liketMarketing: Yes .User Interface: True . Yeah .Marketing: Those are probably the b four most most used buttons on the th in the remote control .Project Manager: Yeah . And you want to acc accentuate that , you know.Industrial Designer: You did the research .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} It's from your research . {vocalsound}Marketing: Sorry ? Yeah , sure . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}So {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay . Uh , that was all yIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: uh personal preference I didn't have .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: I didn't had any time left .ProjectManager: No uh , that's coo it's cool .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} You don't care . No , {vocalsound} sorry . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Oh . Go away .User Interface: It's there .Marketing: Come on .User Interface: Yeah , click on it .Marketing: {gap} .User Interface: Couple time.Marketing: Oh , great . Well , I've done some research again about trends on the internet . Um I've done some investigation , and uh well I uh got some information from fashion watchers from Paris and uh Milan .{vocalsound} Some uh some findings {disfmarker} the most important thing is fancy look and feel of the remote control . Uh , well , we were going to imply that , so that's nice . The second important thing is uhinnovative technology in the R_C_ . Uh , our market really likes really likes that . And uh the third point there in this uh order if {disfmarker} of importance , the third point , is a high ease of use . And uh , well , for theidea , I've put some trends uh for the market of elderly people .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Dark colours , simple recognisable shapes . So we probably won't do that .User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: The younger market likes uh {disfmarker} Well , {gap} the {gap} themes of of this year are uh surprisingly fruits and vegetables and spongy material .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}UserInterface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: I found this image , which is uh {disfmarker} Well , it symbolises the idea of fruits and vegetables . I don't see the spongy part in it . But with a littlebit of fancy {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well maybe c {vocalsound} then we have to do something with Sponge Bob then . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound} Exactly . I got some ideas {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Uh well , yeah , pictures isn't really good word , but umIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: some symbols of fruitsor vegetables maybe . Uh , catchy colours .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Fruit is uh yellow , green , red , whatever .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: So , remote controls in in catchy colours.Project Manager: It doesn't stroke with the with the dark colours .Marketing: Uh , no , we don't want dark colours .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Not the dark colours ? Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound} No , I just putthem there to uh , yeah , uh for general idea .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: And uh , the docking stIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: uh I think the spongy material is is very irritating for the uh remotecontrol itself . But to {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah , the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} To implement some spongy thing , maybe we can do it in the in the docking station . At the bottomof the docking station or whatever . And uh , we could bring one line with a dark colour uh to um uh p uh yeah {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: uh uh v how do you say ?Project Manager: Fordiversity or something . Uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah , also a bit for elderly people who are a little bit crazy and want {vocalsound} maybe want a little younger design but still the dark colour .User Interface: Well ,how uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: I mean it it it reaches a different market uh , but it it it doesn't cost really much effort to b to uh bring uh like a black R_C_ on the market or whatever .Yes .User Interface: But how do we use uh fruits and vegetables in Christ's {vocalsound} sake with {vocalsound} remote control ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: No , but I I I think that uh ourdesign already resembles so a piece of fruit .Marketing: Yeah , there's there's always aUser Interface: Uh , make it a banana ?Project Manager: It's like a pear or something .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Wellthere there's always empty space of course on a remote control . I mean I think this part of the R_C_ uh well {vocalsound} the upper the upper part or whatever is uh is not not used with buttons , I guess .ProjectManager: No , I don't think you have to do it like {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: So you you can put some fruity things {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah , butit that doesn't have to remind you , you know , like explicitly of s our f of a of a specific piece of fruit , but just , you know , like the the the the round curves .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: No , of coursenot .Project Manager: And so y I I think this {disfmarker} y it already sem resembles uh something like a pear to me or something .Marketing: Especially iUser Interface: Yeah , but th {vocalsound} yeah , but that{disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah , yeah . Yeah , exactly .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah , but that's {disfmarker}Marketing: If we make it little bit greenish.Project Manager: You do get the idea , eh ? The fruity kind of round {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah uh uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: 'Kay .Marketing: A {vocalsound} and we could use {vocalsound} one of thesefor the uh w what is it ?Project Manager: Yeah , uh {disfmarker} yeah , I don't know .Industrial Designer: Grapes .Marketing: Uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh , thisis a b yeah . {vocalsound}Marketing: Isn't {disfmarker} Wha whatever .User Interface: But d don't we need a creative artist or something like that to m make it to feel like a a a a vegetable or fruit ?Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah , yeah . Of course we have uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah , sure .Project Manager: we have a very big uh the sMarketing: Yeah . Well , w we can uh {disfmarker} wwe can we can produce multiple uh multiple things .Industrial Designer: For a big team of artists . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Of d design team , yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: This is then the uhpear . I don't know the English word , so forget it .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah , but {disfmarker} {vocalsound} It's pear , I guess .Marketing: {vocalsound} And um , maybe , yeah , a b a banana is uh is n{vocalsound} not easy for a remote control , but m yeah .Industrial Designer: But uh but I think we don't have to makeProject Manager: {vocalsound} No .Industrial Designer: we can't make all uh ten designs . Wehave to make one design I th I I think .Project Manager: No , but I think it's it's already what we were were up to .Marketing: Mayb maybe two or three .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Uh , it's {disfmarker} itdoesn't have to resemble uh what I already said , a specific piece of fruit , but just , you know , like a fruity thing going on .User Interface: {gap}Marketing: Yeah . No sure , but but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Andit's {disfmarker} it looks fruity to me .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: B but that's great , and and and what I was {disfmarker}Project Manager: And uh , but I do like the {disfmarker}Marketing: what what Iwas saying , the catchy colours {disfmarker}Project Manager: yeah , I do like uh the f uh to {disfmarker} the idea of making a a y uh , a catchy colour design and a d because I do {disfmarker} I think a dark colourwould be nice too .Industrial Designer: But pictures of fruit , vegetables vegetables {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Maybe it's too much , you know .User Interface: But , we we have to um {disfmarker}There have to be the the the the firm colours , our own uh colours has to be in it .Marketing: Yeah , uh not really . Pictures was a was a bad word , but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay , but what are the{disfmarker} This is yellow .Marketing: Well we c yeah .User Interface: Yellow , a Real Reaction .Industrial Designer: Yes , you can put a logo on top of it .Project Manager: But I don't think our our company colours are"}
{"doc_id":"doc_81","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: {vocalsound} Wouldn't wanna be Project Manager . {vocalsound} Uh , what we going to do .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um , once again I'm uh gonnatake minutes . So , um no presentation for me . Uh , first we have a prototype presentation by G_ and G_ .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Afterwardssome uhUser Interface: Yo .Marketing: J_ and J_ . {vocalsound}Project Manager: eval eval evaluIndustrial Designer: Evaluation .Project Manager: evaluationUser Interface: Evaluation criteria .Marketing: Evaluation.Project Manager: s {vocalsound} sorry .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh evaluation crit criteria . Uh , in combination with the finance I um {vocalsound} uh I received uh a an uh an Excel uhfileUser Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Hmm .Project Manager: which we have to fill in later on . Um , you see . Uh , and then we must see uh if we uh stay under the twelve and a half Euro .Marketing: Hmm .Interesting . Ah , okay .Project Manager: So , that's uh that's a bigUser Interface: {vocalsound} Oops .Marketing: {vocalsound} Cool . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm . That's gonna be t problem .ProjectManager: l so let's uh wait it uh umMarketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: we have we have must {disfmarker} uh ,User Interface: Some creative uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: wemust have uh some time for that uh because it will be uh {disfmarker} yeah , quite a lot of mathematics .User Interface: Oh . Yeah .Project Manager: And after that , uh uh an evaluation of uh the process how we uhhow we have done it here with the SMARTboard , with the with our laptops , with the {disfmarker} all uh all this . And uh afterwards , uh we closing . Once again , forty minutes , so uh let's start .User Interface: Okokay .Project Manager: I would g give the word to um G_ and G_ for the prototype presentation .User Interface: Shall I give a short introduction and then uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah , well sure.Marketing: J_ and J_ .Project Manager: J_ and J_ .User Interface: Okay . {vocalsound} J_ and J_ , okay .Marketing: Jane and Jane .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: 'Kay guys , take it away .User Interface:Take it away .Industrial Designer: Hi .Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Um , this was our first concept . We decided to use a single touch-screen . So , we've workedout this concepts , how to how to hold it , where to put the buttons and and stuff . And um , well , we began with uh with a form of shape , that is uh is easy to hold w in one hand , left or right handed .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}User Interface: So , we made i it a little bit less thick and uh it has some ar artistic meaning . No ? This uh isn't nothing . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager:{vocalsound}User Interface: Idea maybe uh is better .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Um well , during the meeting I showed you the concept of uh placing the buttons on top , usable with your thumb ,and uh the menu structure , uh if necessary , with your other hand , so it's just gonna hold it easily .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: And it has to be acce accessible with your uh other hand too , ofcourse .Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: So we began uh working out a concept .Industrial Designer: Yeah , uh well , and as you saw , we would just have the basic remote with the panelL_C_D_ uh screen . Well , these would be the main buttons , h you could uh change them later on in your own profile if you want to . But , well it's standard they will be delivered with this kind of uh set-up . We havethe {gap} more advanced menu uh setting right here . We have the sub-menus and stu stuff . We made a top {disfmarker} oh , or a front view . Just so like you wanna uh back view . As you can see , this uh{disfmarker} there , there are uh two uh weird bumps in it .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} This is for uh the added uh effect of uh well uh y youth anddynamic . And uh this is for the artistic effect .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Well , what we figured is uh we'll show you a picture {gap} later on {gap} you have more b a better idea after that .But , idea is for to stay in balance with these two uh {disfmarker} with these two .Marketing: Hmm .Industrial Designer: And so when you put it on the table , it will just {gap} lay down . It won't {vocalsound} uh rollaround or stuff . But it will lie more in your hand like an old telephone maybe , or like these old uh phones .Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: Y you you may get the idea . So thi this is about uh how we figuredit should be . The s panel we g you would hide with some more uh rubber layers , like we discussed early on . Uh , you would s you wouldn't see the uh straight panel , but more fluidly and round .User Interface: Yeah ,the panel just uh of course goes like this .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: But the overlaying layer is uh a little bit uh curved and stuff .Project Manager: No , okay .Marketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: Anduh , in these bumps you could actually uh {gap} put some electronics uh that would {disfmarker} you can make a more thinner uh design ,Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: and that would actually look very nice ,yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: And uh , about the colour , what have {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah . Oh , we added that this um can be held with your hands for this {disfmarker} maximum is omyeah , one and a half centimetres . So , you have room here for your battery and maybe even other um electronic chips . S and you can just be the the layer of the touchscreen and some {disfmarker} have some wiresunderneath it to make it as uh thin as possible in the middle for good grip .Marketing: Okay . Hmm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah , f uh , as colours , do you do you have the picture in uh {disfmarker}UserInterface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Oh yeah . Now , well this is the idea about uh the bumps . Uh , you can see there's a v a very uh youthful uh dynamic uh exterior . It uh {disfmarker} you just want to hold it you uhyou are young and uh dynamic like us .Marketing: 'S l {disfmarker} it's like an uh Easter egg .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah , it's like an e but this is for children . We we want a more adult version .But , this is like a remote control for children .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: It's called a weemote {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {gap} . A weemote .Marketing: Weemote .ProjectManager: Weemote .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Hey , that's actually a brilliant uh marketing stand .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:Uh , but {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Wait what I w got in mind . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So this actually basic the idea .We we just want to build a more uh adult vers adult version of of this .Project Manager: Yeah , I can imagine that .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} And and for colours , we we figured startingwith basic colours like uh white or metallic grey . Those are the technological colours actually ,User Interface: Yeah . It would be best to to appeal to a broad public and make the covers exchangeable ,IndustrialDesigner: so it dUser Interface: so the young people will buy an orange and a red and blue and a purple ,Industrial Designer: Or blue or whatever .User Interface: but when the o older people uh go in the shop and theysee uh an orange um remote control , it would be less appealing than a white one . And young people , we think , are a little bit more flexible ,Marketing: Hmm .User Interface: they think , ah I'll buy for a couple ofEuros some noi nice hip uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Hmm . Maybe it's an idea to sell it without a cover , so that you can pick a cover in the in the shop .User Interface: Well , um I think a cover is necessary , 'cause alsotherwise you'll just have the L_C_D_ screen .Marketing: Yeah , okay . Yeah , okay .User Interface: So , there must be some cheap standard cover , um maybe white or something ,Marketing: Hmm . Mm .UserInterface: that's could comes with it and you can buy , so we can make extra money .Project Manager: Yeah , but uh you d you mustn't forget that uh our target aim is younger people .Marketing: Oui okay .ProjectManager: Uh , we had decided to uh put uh some flashy fruity colours in it , uh and uh in the survey from uh Milan and Paris uh it uh it came out that uh uh the d the older people are uh more willing to uh to spendmoney on extra features . So I think uh it will be a better idea to have some uh flashy fruity colours as as a standard ,User Interface: Okay . The other way around , you mean .Industrial Designer: {gap} Oh yeah.Project Manager: and for the people who uh really want uh a more sophisticated , more traditional look , they're willing to pay uh that .User Interface: Uh-huh .Project Manager: They want uh {disfmarker}{vocalsound} they want more luxury stuff ,Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: but they have the money to do it and they want to b to buy that .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: So , maybe it's anidea to put that as an extra and not as a standard .User Interface: Okay .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Yeah , maybe {disfmarker} yeah , perhaps you're right . Uh , I I would I would actually agree withthis sounds logical .User Interface: Okay , yeah .Marketing: An another idea . Uh , maybe we could uh develop a cover uh with wood style .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound} They'll please the elder usersas well .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Well yeah , a colour of {disfmarker} a wood style , a white c and uh a couple of h hip uh fruity colours .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah .User Interface: And lea uh ldelivered standard with a fruity colour , but not too not too much .Industrial Designer: Nah . Yeah .Marketing: Yes . Not not too uh {disfmarker} yeah .User Interface: This is banana and mango , not not purple or porange and yellow .Marketing: Yeah , exactly .Project Manager: Yeah . But , the mai I think th uh the standard must be some kind of uh uh attractive flashy colours .Marketing: Yeah . Or blue or {disfmarker}ProjectManager: Not too , but w a little ,User Interface: Ah . Mm-hmm .Project Manager: because that's our aim .Industrial Designer: Yeah ,User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: li like like this like this .Project Manager:Yeah .Industrial Designer: This isn't this isn't too much , is it ?User Interface: Yeah , okay . No . Yeah .Industrial Designer: I fMarketing: {gap} .Project Manager: Well , the buttons don't have to be uh all uh all of{gap}Industrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound} The buttons ,Marketing: Well I I I think so .Industrial Designer: I {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah , except for the buttons it's {disfmarker} it could be astandard model .Project Manager: yeah . It {disfmarker} Yeah .User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: Yeah , uh something like this would be nice .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer:Okay , that's that's it from us .Project Manager: Thank you .Marketing: 'Kay , it's my time now .User Interface: It's my turn .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: The MarketingExpert .Industrial Designer: Uh-oh .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: During the {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Oh . {vocalsound} During the design uh design life-cycle we uhProject Manager:{vocalsound} Sorry .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: we made lot of requirements and trend analysis and stuff . Um , now is the time to uh evaluate our prototype concept to uh to the past requirements .{vocalsound} So we are going to evaluate the design according to the past user requirements and trends analysis . Um , we're going to do that with a seven point scale . Opening a Word document now . Okay . One{disfmarker} oh , okay , uh I have to expla explain something . We have to uh be consensive about about things . So , it has to be a group uh group decision .Project Manager: Okay ,Marketing: Okay ?Project Manager:so we gon we gonna evaluate theMarketing: Uh {disfmarker} We're going to vote . We {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah , the the thing we {gap} saw .Marketing: yeah ? The prototype .Project Manager: Okay , justsaw .Marketing: Yeah . Okay , one . The remote control is designed for people with age below forty .Project Manager: Yeah . Seven ?Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Seven is false.Project Manager: Uh , true . {vocalsound} Sorry .Marketing: Yeah , b one or {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah , one I think .Industrial Designer: Why ?Marketing: Most true ?Industrial Designer: Yeah , it's not justuh designed for people under the age of forty . It's also designed for people above forty .User Interface: Mm .Marketing: Yeah ,Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: so {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: So {disfmarker}Marketing: so a o one is appropriate ?User Interface: No no , a little more in the middle .Marketing: Or , more like a four .User Interface: No , uh three or {disfmarker} yeah .IndustrialDesigner: I have {disfmarker} I've {disfmarker}Marketing: Three .Industrial Designer: Yeah , two or three , because it's not just {disfmarker} uh the qu question is aimed at is it designed for people with age belowforty .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: But it's also designed for people of age above forty . So ,Marketing: Ah , exactly . Exactly .Industrial Designer: I'll say it's about three .User Interface: Yeah ,ProjectManager: Okay .User Interface: it will be primary appealing to to m minus forty , but also appealing to {disfmarker}Marketing: Three .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah . But also for {disfmarker} yeah ,okay . Uh , second . The remote control is beautiful .User Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: It's {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface:Wow .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah , acco according to us , it's one ? Or {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah , I I think {disfmarker}User Interface: it's the marketing uh angle on television .Industrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah ,User Interface: Wehave a wonderful {disfmarker}Marketing: p s Of c of course you have to be uh very positive and uh enthusiastic about your own product .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Well , it'salso fancy then .Marketing: Three . Uh , the remote control looks fancy .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yes .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: One ?Project Manager: Yep .User Interface: Of course . Wehave a perfect remote .Industrial Designer: Yes .Marketing: Good . Four . The remote control has big , clear channel switching buttons .User Interface: Yes . Yeah yeah , oh they have to agree but {disfmarker}{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: Yes .Industrial Designer: Leads to user face , yeah .User Interface: I'm the User Interface uh Expert . {vocalsound}Marketing: Daniel . Uh ,teletext buttons and volume buttons ?User Interface: Um , uh no .Project Manager: No teletext buttons . Teletext is in the menu .User Interface: You you've different menu .Industrial Designer: Yeah , false .Marketing:False ?User Interface: And volume is impoMarketing: And volume ?Project Manager: Volume is true .User Interface: yeah .Marketing: True .Industrial Designer: Uh , hmm .Marketing: Big and clear ?Project Manager:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah , the they are big and clear . {gap} .User Interface: Yeah yeah , big and clear .Project Manager: Yeah , big and clear .User Interface: But you could make a teletext button uh six.Marketing: Hey .User Interface: Otherwise , the people who read this uh are gonna think we have no teletext button .Marketing: Hey . Hide .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah , but but theteletext button . Yeah , you can ch That's in a menu .Marketing: {vocalsound} It's it's not {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So , it's w yeah , it {disfmarker} it itMarketing: yeah , it {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: itisn't entirely unclear ,Marketing: JIndustrial Designer: but {disfmarker} So , I wouldn't give it a seven .User Interface: No .Industrial Designer: I would give it a more a five or a six .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Five?Industrial Designer: Uh , I don I don't know .Marketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: What do you think , uh Mister Project Manager ?Marketing: Yeah , it's it's {disfmarker} yeah .Project Manager: Oh , okay . Well , Iagree . I was thinking very black and white .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Hmm .User Interface: Black and red . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager:{vocalsound} Thank you J_ . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Okay , don't forget to save it . Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}Marketing: Red . Okay . Volume . The remote control is easy to be found .User Interface: Uh well , when we put in fancy colours , yeahProject Manager: {vocalsound} Fruity . {vocalsound}UserInterface: and {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah , it has these {disfmarker} all these fruity colours and it has a strange shape .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .Industrial Designer: So ,if you so if you have {vocalsound} trouble finding it {disfmarker}User Interface: But , um it it's not making any sound uh ,Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: have we deciding ?Marketing: Oh , okay ,UserInterface: So {disfmarker}Marketing: but {disfmarker} If you put uh your normal uh remote control under your bed , or you throw this remote control under your bed , is it better findable ?User Interface: {vocalsound}It'll make a difference . We have the better re {vocalsound} I don't know . Yeah , I think so . My remote control's black .Marketing: A li little bit maybe ?User Interface: A little bit , but {disfmarker} yeah .ProjectManager: Yeah . Well , we p we can do it glow in the dark .Marketing: Four ?User Interface: Uh {disfmarker}Marketing: FiProject Manager: So , if it's in the dark place , you still see it glowing .User Interface:{vocalsound} K yeah .Marketing: I {disfmarker}User Interface: Fo fo yeah fo five is {gap} .Marketing: Ah , I I I think five . It's it's {disfmarker} it doesn't really make a lot of {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Well ,then uh then I'll go for four .Marketing: Four ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Because uh four is between three and uh uh also between between true and false .User Interface: Yeah , okay , you're right .IndustrialDesigner: Uh ,Marketing: {vocalsound} Yes , but five is between four and six . {vocalsound}Project Manager: I think {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: so I'll I'll go for four .Project Manager: Ah , you must see it as uh ,w uh according to uh the the other uh remote controls , there may uh uh be there in your uh T_V_ room , this one will stand out , I think .Industrial Designer: WhaUser Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: B_ .User Interface: Yeah . Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah , that that's a better question actually .Marketing: Yeah ,Project Manager: Exa I think that that's what it's about .User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: it {disfmarker} it's {disfmarker}User Interface: If your uh fifteen remotes in a drawer , uh you find it , yeah ?Project Manager: If it {disfmarker} if this lying on your couch , you're you're {disfmarker} youthink what's that for kinda orange uh thing .Marketing: Yeah , yeah .Project Manager: So {disfmarker}Marketing: But but the survey under users was that they uh really lost it .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface:Yeah , that's stupid . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Like , no not uh not seeing it , but lost it in the house or something .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay .User Interface: Uh , but whenyou lost it you're just not {disfmarker}Marketing: But , okay .Industrial Designer: Well , if i if you see a strange shape lying somewhere , uh then you'd uh recognise it as , whoa , that is strange .Project Manager:"}
{"doc_id":"doc_82","qid":"","text":"Lynne Neagle AM: Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the Children, Young People and Education committee this morning. We've received apologies for absence from Siân Gwenllian and there is no substitute thismorning. Can I ask if Members have got any declarations of interest they'd like to make, please? No? Okay. Thank you. Item 2 this morning, then, is a further session on our follow-up on our 'Mind over matter' report.I'm very pleased to welcome Carol Shillabeer, who is chief executive of Powys Teaching Health Board, and who manages the Together for Children and Young People programme. Thank you very much for attending, andthank you for the written update that you provided in advance to the committee. We've got a lot of ground that we want to cover this morning, so if it's okay we'll go straight into questions. If I can just start and askyou if you're satisfied with the progress that's been made since the programme was established in 2015.Carol Shillabeer: Thank you very much for that question, Chair. I've got to say 'yes', in many regards. So, the keyfocus of the programme in the early stages was about improving access to specialist child and adolescent mental health services. We developed the windscreen model—or we lifted the windscreen model. Other modelsthat are very similar have been talked about as well, and our big focus was on ensuring that we could make immediate progress around access to specialist CAMHS. It's some years ago now since this committee did theoriginal report, and obviously Healthcare Inspectorate Wales and the Wales Audit Office had done reports in the past, and I think there was a need for a programme that could focus on action. You'll see in the writtenupdate that we covered quite a large number of areas, and so therefore had to make a prioritisation. The prioritisation was at the specialist CAMHS end. We have provided the committee with a red, amber or greenrating of where we feel that we were, and that was just before submission of the evidence. Overall I would say we have made progress. I recognise you recognise that in your 'Mind over matter' report, and that ispleasing. What I would say, though, is that there's a still a lot to be done. Certainly over the last nine months or so, we've seen a real momentum around the whole-school approach work, which we're not actuallyleading now as a programme, although we facilitated the workshop held in September. But that's got a real momentum, and the absolute priority now is the early help and enhanced support part of the work movingforward, and I'm sure we will come on to that in more detail. But we know there is more community workforce in specialist CAMHS, we know we're seeing children in a shorter time frame, and we know we're acceptingmore referrals, so our indicators are telling us we are making progress.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. And you referred to the work on the whole-school approach, which is very welcome, and I recognise that theprogramme has been involved in driving that as well. But I'm sure you'll also recognise the emphasis that the committee has placed on this being a whole-system approach to children and young people's mental health,and we feel very strongly that if any of the areas get out of balance, then it will jeopardise the progress in other parts of the programme. Are there any particular areas where you feel you haven't made enough progressthat you'd like to draw the committee's attention to?Carol Shillabeer: This is maybe about what the programme's done, but really around the broader sense as well. I'm going to be very straight and say we should havemade more progress on psychological therapies. I'm disappointed that we haven't. I'm assured that we've got capacity in place now and the drive in place to get the Matrics Cymru framework developed for children andyoung people. I've had discussions with the national psychological therapies committee, who have owned this, and we're working together more on this area. That's not to say for one minute that health boards and localareas haven't been working on psychological therapy service provision and changing the models, but that is an area we should have made, I think, earlier progress on. There's been a general reflection from myself andthe Together for Children and Young People programme board over the phase of the programme. I think we started very strongly; I think we probably had a bit of a lull in the middle, if I'm truthful about that—we had achange of personnel, and we really gathered a momentum over the last year or 18 months, and that has helped to push us from a focus on specialist CAMHS into that whole-school approach. But, if I could just agreewith your comments about the whole system, it has to be the whole system and that's why the real focus now on early help and enhanced support is critical. If I can just say, in case I don't get a chance to say this later,I was delighted to see the focus on youth work yesterday, because what is clear is for that part, the early help and enhanced support, this isn't just about the NHS and it's not just about education, it's about every partof the system, really, which does make it more complex. But I just wanted to say that I think that youth work has perhaps not have the recognition that it's needed and yesterday was a positive step.Lynne Neagle AM:Okay, thank you. We've got some questions now on early help and enhanced support from Janet Finch-Saunders.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you. Good morning. In terms of local primary mental health supportservices, what is your understanding of the issues leading to some health boards not meeting the Mental Health (Wales) Measure 2010 targets for assessment and therapy for children and young people, and how muchof this is due to an increase in demand?Carol Shillabeer: Yes, thanks very much. So, it's important to say, I think, at the outset, just by way of reminder, that the target, quite rightly, changed for children and youngpeople. The target changed some years ago for adults, so it was only right that there was an equalisation around children. So, the services were working, a couple of years ago, with significant demand and then achange in the standard. I think you're absolutely right; your question alludes to the fact that some health boards are struggling to maintain the full performance around seeing children, particularly within the 28 days. Iwould say—. And we've had some discussion about whether the impact of the mental health Measure has actually drawn perhaps some of the workforce, the staff, who would have been working at that earlier stage inlocal primary mental health, into a bit more of the secondary element, which is why the review being undertaken by the NHS delivery unit into primary care CAMHS is so critical, because, actually, if we don't have—andI believe we don't have—enough capacity in that part of the system, then referrals will move towards the more specialist end of this. So, I think we will have seen, by the evidence submission, that demand hasincreased, not just in Wales but in the UK, and it has increased significantly. We are doing reasonably well at meeting that demand—so, we have more contacts, more staff, shorter access times, so that is a good newsstory. We've not got it completely sustained at this stage, and therefore the focus of the delivery unit's primary care CAMHS report is what more can we do in that part of the system to help to see children and youngpeople or provide consultation and liaison to others and support people at that level of intervention.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you. I know, from my own experience as a constituency AM, I have families who tellme that they can't get into the early interventions and eventually things just become so—they end up in the more specialist ones and believe that that's—. And I don't like to put it in resource terms, but it's falseeconomy in terms of the impact on the child and the family, but, obviously, in terms of cost as well. Do you find that that's a common theme across Wales?Carol Shillabeer: Yes. I think that the thrust of that isabsolutely right. So, we absolutely need to see children and families at the earliest intervention and that's why this is a whole system, not compartmentalised. I think there have been really good attempts in a couple ofareas of that greater reach out and that earlier help—hot clinics and those sorts of initiatives that help people not to get in a long queue for specialist CAMHS, but can be supported, often by telephone, at that earlierstage. My sense of where we go next, in terms of, you know, you talk about early help and enhanced support for all the 'missing middle', as you referred to it in your report, is to make sure we've got a fully joined-up,multi-agency team approach to that. And I think that will need some resourcing to support that, yet to be fully determined. But yesterday's announcement about youth work, the Government's commitment to primarycare, CAMHS, et cetera—that's all going to be very helpful to prevent those young people having to go into specialist CAMHS. And just a final note on that, if I may—at the beginning of the programme, we had a reportfrom Hafal called 'Making Sense' and there were 10 key asks, if you like, of the system and the service from young people who had experience of the service. They said, 'Please don't medicalise it'—I'm paraphrasingnow, of course—'Please don't medicalise it; please focus on supporting teachers and others who can support us at an earlier stage and then, when we really need help, please ensure that it is there at that morespecialist level.' That's been a bit of a guiding principle for the programme. So, that reflects the questions that you were asking, really.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you. What are the outcomes of the stakeholderworkshop held last week on early help and enhanced support? And how are the actions going to be taken forward and implemented? And also, given that the Together for Children and Young People programme comesto an end in October of this year, who, in your view, is best placed to forward this work stream, and what will be the biggest challenges? It's a bit of a long question, so, break it up however you like.Carol Shillabeer:That's absolutely fine.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: And what will be the biggest challenges that they will face?Carol Shillabeer: Yes, I think that's helpfully laid out in three stages. So, you're absolutely right, there was ahighly successful workshop last week really focusing on early help and enhanced support. It brought all of the agencies together, which was—and actually had a bit of a waiting list, apparently, for places. So, there wasa lot of demand and a lot of interest in this. In relation to the next steps, there is a planning group reflection in early July, in terms of the outcomes of the workshop or the outputs of the workshop, and there are threecommitments that have been made to this stage. One is that we develop those values-led approaches that will bring multiple agencies together to have that common purpose. The second one is to develop theingredients for successful working in this area, and then, thirdly, to determine or propose priorities and sequencing of next steps. So, that's the next stage of that. I'm pretty sure we'll come on shortly—or hopefully—tothe potential of the regional partnership boards. There is some work that we are doing as a programme with the children's commissioner in terms of working more with the regional partnership boards in taking forwardthis work. So, that will run alongside. But during the summer, then, we will be developing that framework approach, and we will be participating in the Association of Directors of Social Services conference inSeptember, and then a follow-up workshop in October on this matter. On your question of 'Well, what happens after the programme?' we are currently working on legacy arrangements for the programme. I'm prettysecure on the specialist CAMHS element. That will move, most likely, to the CAMHS network, which is part of the NHS mental health network. I actually chair the mental health network and that's one part of that. Thewhole-school approach element is already settled in Government and we've got a connection in to that. The question that's outstanding is where the early help and enhanced support and the neurodevelopmental will go.I am currently in discussions with Welsh Government officials around that. I can be very clear of my own view that there needs to be a confident and clear legacy arrangement for this work. We cannot afford that we'vecome so far for this not now to proceed. I think there's a huge momentum behind this. I don't see there would be any obstacles—I hope—in getting that commitment translated into a strong approach, as we moveforward. So, I'm not in a position to say, 'And the legacy arrangements will be—', but I am in a position to say that I'm having those discussions with Welsh Government officials. They know my view that we've got toput something in place that is strong and secure as we move forward, and I believe that they are supportive of that.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Janet, I think those two questions have beentouched on, the remaining questions. We are going to discuss in more detail the legacy arrangements, but if I could just ask on psychological therapies: you referred to the fact that you were a bit disappointed withprogress in this area, and the area hasn't been directly led on by the Together for Children and Young People programme. Do you think that means now that there is more of a threat to progress in this area, because,you know, we've got different compartmentalising of actions, and this is absolutely key, isn't it, really?Carol Shillabeer: Yes. I think there's—. There is some refinement to be done, I think, in making sure theconnections are there. So, I think, as we move to programme end, we'll want to be absolutely assured that there are no strands left hanging, so to speak. I am confident—I mentioned the mental health network boardthat I chair—that we have those strands nailed down, but recognising that the early help and enhanced support and the provision of psychological support is beyond the NHS. So, this will be an area that needs to bevery much seen as a key part of that. My own sense is that—. There's been quite a lot of other developments through the life of the programme. So, in the evidence that I've provided, you'll see the First 1000 days, allthe adverse childhood experiences work, the Cymru Well Wales partnership, et cetera, et cetera. So, there is a bit of what I would call tidying up of the landscape to be done, and this is the ideal opportunity to dothat.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Thank you. We've got some questions now on specialist CAMHS—if I can just ask about the impact of the specialist CAMHS framework, and how effective you feel that has been inpromoting a consistent delivery of care for young people.Carol Shillabeer: Thanks very much for that. Without wanting to go back too far in history, I remember coming into this area back in 2014 as I was asked toestablish a CAMHS network. My observation was there wasn't really a strong and well-connected clinical community in this area. When we spin forward five years, I can confidently say that there is a strong andwell-connected clinical community around specialist CAMHS. The programme has helped; the emphasis and the focus of the programme has helped to bring people together with that more common endeavour tounderstand, actually, there is a good case for consistency in the main, with local variation. There has been a case for much greater learning between organisations. If I just give you an example—you'll know that thecommunity intensive service teams were put in place in 2015-ish. Some areas have them, but a lot of areas didn't. We do have inconsistency in that, but the consistent part is there is a service now right the way acrossWales for more intensive support to children and young people and their families in their own homes, which helps to prevent admissions and then, where there are admissions, helps to support people to be at home.They're all called slightly different things. So, I might have referred in my papers to CITT, CATT, COT and CITE. So, they've all got slightly different names and they've got slightly different opening hours. The key thrustof this is that there is a backbone, if you like, of a consistent approach with that local variation. We have to check. So, things like frameworks for improvement—there is a coming together of the clinicians and theprofessionals to agree what that framework for improvement is. That then gets implemented, with some local variation. So, I think the process of moving in that way has been extremely helpful. There will be somevariation. We want some variation, to some extent, as places try new things and evaluate new things. So, if I just refer to the previous question that I had, and I talked about hot clinics and different ways of reachingout; that's been tried in one area, been evaluated—let's see the spread of that. So, you'll know my view on internet counselling, for example; I feel that is quite a strong offer for children—not necessarily in thespecialist end. If that works in one area, why aren't we rolling that out to other areas? So, I think the framework for improvement has provided a vehicle for those clinicians and professionals to come together. It's in astronger place—a much stronger place—than it was five years ago.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. You've referred to there being some inconsistencies in terms of crisis care, but are you able to assure thecommittee that all young people are now getting at least a consistent service, especially in terms of interventions in the instances of young people self-harming. Wherever you live in Wales, is that help there for younow?Carol Shillabeer: Well, in your work to produce the 'Mind over matter' report, I clearly listened to the views from the police and the recommendations in relation to the police. We've taken that as a further piece ofwork under the specialist CAMHS umbrella, to truly understand what the experiences of the police are and what some of the root issues may be in relation to that. For example, is it that because the CIT, CAT, COT,CITE—the community intensive service—closes at 10 o'clock in a certain area, that actually it's after that that the network of support isn't as strong, and, if that is the case, what are we going to do about that? There'scertainly potential in working more regionally or even working between adults' and children's in terms of the crisis resolution services that work beyond those hours. So, we are taking an extra look at this, because Icould not be 100 per cent confident that, throughout the 24-hour period, we've got this fully settled. I continue to hear some stories from the police that they are picking up young people and feeling that they've not gotthat solid place to go, and we're following those through.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. We've got some questions now from Hefin David on neurodevelopmental services.Hefin David AM: I think, Chair, I shouldhave declared an interest here, as my daughter has been diagnosed with autism and is currently going through the process of receiving neurodevelopmental speech and language support particularly. We're seeing anincrease in neurodevelopmental referrals, and that will increase further in the future. Can you give us an explanation as to why this demand is growing and how we're going to meet capacity to deliver and for support forthose children?Carol Shillabeer: Thank you. They're very big questions in terms of 'why'. I'm not sure that anyone really knows why, if I'm honest, although there is a lot of academic research going on. What we doknow is that we are starting to see the scale of those referrals coming through. So, in the information provided, I refer to the NHS digital prevalence report in England, which indicates that about 5.5 per cent of two tofour-year-olds have a mental disorder. Now, that sounds a bit shocking when we say that, but that's in the international classification scaling, and, of that, certainly, 2.5 per cent is around autism. I can just testify, inreal life, that demand is absolutely growing. So, if I just take my own health board for a moment, we usually have about 75 referrals per year. Last year we had 300. So, that has felt very difficult to manage. If I canjust give you a sense of what we've done so far and then what I think is next, I want to recognise the work of Dr Cath Norton and the steering group that's been established on neurodevelopmental issues under theprogramme. They had a standing start. They've done a lot of very, very good work. We now have seven teams in place across Wales. We now have a national pathway. We now have a community-of-practice-typeenvironment, and we're really getting into this. Good progress has been made. More people have been seen. More people have been assessed. So, we have made progress. But I've got a long list of considerations that I"}
{"doc_id":"doc_83","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Okay Right {vocalsound} Um well this is the kick-off meeting for our our project . Um {vocalsound} and um this is just what we're gonna be doing over the next twenty five minutes . Um so first of all ,just to kind of make sure that we all know each other ,Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: I'm Laura and I'm the project manager . {vocalsound} Do you want to introduce yourself again ?Marketing: Great.Industrial Designer: Hi , I'm David and I'm supposed to be an industrial designer .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: And I'm Andrew and I'm uh our marketingUser Interface: Um I'm Craig and I'm User Interface.Marketing: expert .Project Manager: Great . Okay . {vocalsound} Um so we're designing a new remote control and um {disfmarker} Oh I have to record who's here actually . So that's David , Andrew and Craig , isn't it? And you all arrived on time . Um yeah so des uh {vocalsound} design a new remote control . Um , as you can see it's supposed to be original , trendy and user friendly . Um so that's kind of our our brief , as it were .Um and so there are three different stages to the design . Um I'm not really sure what what you guys have already received um in your emails . What did you get ?Industrial Designer: Um , I just got the projectannouncement about what the project is {vocalsound} .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Designing a remote control .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: That's about it , didn't get anything else.Marketing: Mm-hmm . Yeah , that's that's it .Project Manager: Is that what everybody got ?Industrial Designer: Did you get the same thing ?User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Yeah .ProjectManager: Um . So we're gonna have like individual work and then a meeting about it . And repeat that process three times . Um and at this point we get try out the whiteboard over there . Um . {vocalsound} So uh youget to draw your favourite animal and sum up your favourite characteristics of it . So who would like to go first ?Marketing: I will go . That's fine .Project Manager: Very good . {vocalsound}Marketing: Alright . So{disfmarker} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} This one here , right ?Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Okay . Very nice . Alright . My favourite animal is like {disfmarker} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} A beagle .ProjectManager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Um charac favourite characteristics of it ? Is that right ?Project Manager: Yeah . Yeah .Marketing: Uh , right , well basically um high priority for any animal for me is that they be willingto take a lot of physical affection from their family . And , yeah that they have lots of personality and uh be fit and in robust good health .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: So this is blue . Blue beagle . Myfamily's beagle .Project Manager: Right .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Lovely . {vocalsound}User Interface: {gap} Well , my favourite animal would be a monkey .Project Manager: {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Then they're small cute and furry , and uh when planet of the apes becomes real , {vocalsound} I'm gonna be up there with them .Marketing:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Cool .Project Manager: Right .User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: There's too much gear . {vocalsound}Project Manager: You can take as long over this asyou like , because we haven't got an awful lot to discuss .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Ok oh we do we doUser Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Don't feel like you're in a rush , anyway.Industrial Designer: Okay .Marketing: I coulda told you a whole lot more about beagles .Project Manager: Ach {gap} why not {disfmarker}Marketing: Boy , let me tell you . {vocalsound}Project Manager: We mighthave to get you up again then .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I don't know what mine is . I'm gonna have to think on the spot now .Marketing: Impressionist .Project Manager: {vocalsound}UserInterface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Can't draw . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Um .Project Manager: Is that a whale ? {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah . Um , wellanyway , I don't know , it's just the first animal I can think off the top of my head . Um . Yes . Big reason is 'cause I'm allergic to most animals . Allergic to animal fur ,Project Manager: Ah .Industrial Designer: so umfish was a natural choice . Um , yeah , and I kind of like whales . They come in and go {vocalsound} eat everything in sight . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Andthey're quite harmless and mild and interesting .Marketing: {vocalsound} Alright . Mm .Project Manager: Okay . God , I still don't know what I'm gonna write about . Um .Marketing: Superb sketch , by the way.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Tail's a bit big , I think . {vocalsound}Project Manager: I was gonna choose a dog as well .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: But I'll just draw a different kind of dog.Marketing: Yep .Project Manager: M my favourite animal is my own dog at home . {vocalsound} Um {disfmarker} That doesn't really look like him , actually . He looks more like a pig , actually . Ah well .Marketing: Isee a dog in there .Project Manager: Do you ?User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh that's very good of you .Marketing: Yep . {vocalsound} Now I see a rooster .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}ProjectManager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh .Marketing: What kind is it ?Project Manager: Um he's a mixture of uh various things . Um and what do I like about him , um {disfmarker}That's just to suggest that his tail wags .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um he's very friendly and cheery and always pleased to see you , and very kind of affectionate andum {vocalsound} uh and he's quite quite wee as well so you know he can {disfmarker} doesn't take up too much space .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um and uh {disfmarker} And he does a funny thingwhere he chases his tail as well ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: which is quite amusing , so {disfmarker}Marketing: Is he aware that th it's his own cha tail he's chasing ?Project Manager: It is . Ithink it is . He only does it after he's had his dinnerMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: and um he'll just all of a sudden just get up and start chasing his tail 'round the living room .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound} It's an after dinner dog then .Marketing: Hmm .Project Manager: Yeah , so uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Probably when he was little he got lots of attention for doing it and has forever been conditioned.Project Manager: Yeah , maybe . Maybe . {vocalsound} Right , um where did you find this ?Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Just down here ? Yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .{vocalsound} Um what are we doing next ? Uh um . Okay , uh we now need to discuss the project finance . Um so according to the brief um we're gonna be selling this remote control for twenty five Euro , um and we'reaiming to make fifty million Euro . Um so we're gonna be selling this on an international scale . And uh we don't want it to cost any more than uh twelve fifty Euros , so fifty percent of the selling price .Marketing: 'Kay .Um , can we just go over that again ?Project Manager: Sure .Marketing: Uh , so bas at twel Alright , yeah . Okay . So cost {disfmarker} like production cost is twelve fifty ,Project Manager: All together .Marketing: butselling price is {disfmarker} is that wholesale or retail ? Like on the shelf .Project Manager: Um I dunno . I imagine {disfmarker} That's a good question .Marketing: Our sale our sale anyway .Project Manager: I imagineit probably is our sale actuallyMarketing: Yeah , okay okay .Project Manager: because it's probably up to the the um the retailer to uh sell it for whatever price they want . Um .Marketing: Okay . Mm-hmm .ProjectManager: But I {disfmarker} I don't know ,Marketing: Alright .Project Manager: I mean do you think the fact that it's going to be sold internationally will have a bearing on how we design it at all ?Marketing: Yes .{vocalsound}Project Manager: Think it will ? Um .Marketing: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Hmm .Marketing: Well right away I'm wondering if there's um th th uh , like with D_V_D_ players , ifthere are zones .Project Manager: Oh yeah , regions and stuff , yeah .Marketing: Um f frequencies or somethingProject Manager: Yeah . Okay .Marketing: um as well as uh characters , um different uh keypad styles ands symbols .Industrial Designer: Hmm .Project Manager: Yeah . Well for a remote control , do you think that will be {disfmarker}Marketing: Um .Project Manager: I suppose it's depends on how complicated our remotecontrol is .Marketing: I don't know . Yeah .Industrial Designer: It does make sense from maybe the design point of view 'cause you have more complicated characters like European languages , then you need morebuttons .Project Manager: Yeah , yeah .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: So , possibly .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: And then a and then al the other thing international is on top of the price. I'm thinking the price might might appeal to a certain market in one region , whereas in another it'll be different , so {disfmarker}Project Manager: What , just like in terms of like the wealth of the country ?Marketing:Just a chara just a characteristic of the {disfmarker}Project Manager: Like how much money people have to spend on things like ?Marketing: Just {disfmarker} Or just like , basic product podi positioning , the twentyfive Euro remote control might be a big hit in London , might not be such a big hit in Greece , who knows ,Project Manager: Aye , I see what you mean , yeah .Marketing: something like that , yeah .Project Manager:Marketing . Good marketing thoughts .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yep .Project Manager: Oh gosh , I should be writing all this down . Um .Marketing: Right away I'm making some kind of assumptions about what whatinformation we're given here ,Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: thinking , 'kay trendy probably means something other than just basic ,Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: something other than just standard . Um soI'm wondering right away , is selling twenty five Euros , is that sort of the {disfmarker} thi is this gonna to be like the premium product kinda thing or {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah , yeah . Like how much does ,you know , a remote control cost .Marketing: Uh-huh .Project Manager: Well twenty five Euro , I mean that's um that's about like eighteen pounds or something , isn't it ? Or no , is it as much as that ?Marketing:Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Sixteen seventeen eighteen pounds .Marketing: Yep . Yeah , I'd say so , yeah .Project Manager: Um , I dunno , I've never bought a remote control , so I don't know how how good a remotecontrol that would get you . Um .Marketing: No . Yeah , yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: But yeah , I suppose it has to look kind of cool and gimmicky .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Um right , okay . Letme just scoot on ahead here . Okay . Um well d Does anybody have anything to add to uh to the finance issue at all ? ThinMarketing: Do we have any other background information on like how that compares tootherProject Manager: No , actually . That would be useful , though ,Marketing: other {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Project Manager: wouldn't it , if you knew like what your money would get you now .Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Hmm .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Mm-hmm . Yeah , interesting thing about discussing um production of a remote control for me is that l as you point out , I just don't think of remotecontrols as somethin something people consciously assess in their purchasing habits .Project Manager: Yeah , yeah .Marketing: It's just like getting shoelaces with shoes or something .Project Manager: Oh . Fiveminutes to end of meeting .Marketing: It just comes along .Project Manager: Oh , okay . We're a bit behind .Marketing: Do you know what I mean ?User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Like so sort of like how do you I I mean one one way of looking at it would be , well the people producing television sets , maybe they have to buy remote controls . Or another way is maybe people whohave T_V_ sets are really fed up with their remote control and they really want a better one or something .User Interface: I know um {disfmarker} My parents went out and bought um remote controls because um theygot fed up of having four or five different remote controls for each things the house .Marketing: But {disfmarker} Right . Right .User Interface: So um for them it was just how many devices control .Marketing: Okay so{disfmarker} Right , so in function one of the priorities might be to combine as many uses {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah . Right , so do you think that should be like a main design aim of our remote control d youknow ,Marketing: I think so .Project Manager: do your your satellite and your regular telly and your V_C_R_ and everything ?Marketing: Yeah , yeah . Yeah . Well like um , maybe what we could use is a sort of like aexample of a successful other piece technology is palm palm pilots . They're gone from being just like little sort of scribble boards to cameras , M_P_ three players , telephones ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing:everything , agenda . So , like , I wonder if we might add something new to the to the remote control market ,Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah .Marketing: such as the lighting in your house , or um{disfmarker}Project Manager: Or even like , you know , notes about um what you wanna watch . Like you might put in there oh I want to watch such and such and look aMarketing: Yeah , yeah .Project Manager: Ohthat's a good idea . So extra functionalities .Marketing: An Yeah . Like , p personally for me , at home I've I've combined the um the audio video of my television set and my D_V_D_ player and my C_D_ player . Sothey w all work actually function together but I have different remote controls for each of them .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: So it's sort of ironic that that then they're in there um you know , the sound andeverything it's just one system .Project Manager: Hmm .Marketing: But each one's got its own little part .Project Manager: Um okay , uh I'd wel we're gonna have to wrap up pretty quickly in the next couple of minutes. Um I'll just check we've nothing else . Okay . Um so anything else anybody wants to add about what they don't like about remote controls they've used , what they would really like to be part of this new one at all?Industrial Designer: And you keep losing them .Project Manager: You keep losing them .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: Finding them is really a pain , you know .Marketing: Mm . Mm.Industrial Designer: I mean it's usually quite small , or when you want it right , it slipped behind the couchMarketing: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: or it's kicked under the table .Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: W You get those ones where you can , if you like , whistle or make a really high pitched noise they beep .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: You know .Marketing: That's just reallygood id Yep .Project Manager: There {disfmarker} I mean is that something we'd want to include , do you think ?Marketing: Uh , {vocalsound}Project Manager: Dunno .Marketing: sure . {vocalsound}Project Manager:Okay maybe . {vocalsound}Marketing: I remember when the first remote control my my family had was on a cable . Actually had a cable between it and the T_V_Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: and big likebuttons that sort of like , like on a blender or something .Project Manager: My goodness .Marketing: And um , you know , when I think about what they are now , it's better , but actually it's still kind of , I dunno , like amassive junky thing on the table .Project Manager: Still feels quite primitive .Marketing: Maybe we could think about how , could be more , you know , streamlined . SProject Manager: Maybe like a touch screen orsomething ?Marketing: Something like that , yeah .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Or whatever would be technologically reasonable .Project Manager: Uh-huh , okay . Well I guess that's up to our industrial designer.Marketing: 'Cause it could b it could it could be that f it could be that functionally that doesn't make it any better , but that just the appeal of of not having {disfmarker}Project Manager: It looks better .Marketing: Youknow , these days there's a r pe things in people's homes are becoming more and more like chic , you know .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Um , nicer materialsProject Manager: Okay .Marketing: and mightbeProject Manager: Okay .Marketing: be worth exploring anyway .User Interface: Uh .Project Manager: Right , well um so just to wrap up the next meeting's gonna be in thirty minutes . So that's about um about ten totwelve by my watch . Um so inbetween now and then , um as the industrial designer , you're gonna be working on you know the actual working design of itIndustrial Designer: Yep .Project Manager: so y you know whatyou're doing there . Um for user interface , technical functions , I guess that's you know like what we've been talking about , what it'll actually do . Um and uh marketing executive , you'll be just thinking about what itactually {disfmarker} what , you know , what requirements it has to has to fulfil and you'll all get instructions emailed to you , I guess .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Um .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager:Yeah , so it's th the functional design stage is next , I guess . {vocalsound} And uh and that's the end of the meeting . So I got that little message a lot sooner than I thought I would , so {disfmarker}Marketing: Um .{vocalsound} {vocalsound} Before we wrap up , just to make sure we're all on the same page here ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: um , do we {disfmarker} We were given sort of an example of a coffeemachine or something ,Project Manager: Uh-huh , yeah .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Marketing: right ? Well , um are we at ma right now on the assumption that our television remote control may have featureswhich go beyond the television ? Or are we keeping sort of like a a design commitment to television features ?Project Manager: Th Okay , well just very quicklyMarketing: I I don't know .Project Manager: 'cause this{disfmarker} we're supposed to finish now . Um I guess that's up to us ,Marketing: Yep . Yeah , sure .Project Manager: I mean you probably want some kind of unique selling point of it , so um , you know{disfmarker}Marketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: I think one factor would be production cost .Marketing: Okay , yeah .Industrial Designer: Because there's a cap there ,Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: soum depends on how much you can cram into that price . Um .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: I think that that's the main factor .Project Manager: Yeah . Okay.Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Right , okay , we'll that's that's the end of the meeting , then . UmMarketing: Alright . {vocalsound}Project Manager: So , uhMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: thank you allfor coming . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Cool .Marketing: {vocalsound}"}
{"doc_id":"doc_84","qid":"","text":"Lynne Neagle AM: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee this morning. I've received no apologies for absence. Can I ask Members if there are any declarations ofinterest, please? No. Okay, thank you. Item 2 this morning is our scrutiny session on Estyn's annual report 2018-19. I'm very pleased to welcome Meilyr Rowlands, Her Majesty's Chief Inspector, Estyn; Jassa Scott,strategic director at Estyn; and Claire Morgan, strategic director at Estyn. Thank you all for attending. We're looking forward to hearing what you've got to say. We'll go straight into questions from Suzy Davies.SuzyDavies AM: Bore da. Good morning, everybody. Thank you for the papers upfront, in which you say that the most striking feature of the education system, looking forward, of course is the curriculum and the changethat that's bringing. How can we be sure that, during this period of change, standards don't slip? And also, from the point of view of scrutiny, will we be back in a situation where we're being told, 'You can't compare oneset of results against the previous year's results, because of the nature of the change'?Meilyr Rowlands: Bore da, bawb. Thank you for the invitation to come here. I think that's a good question. I think any kind of majoreducational reform has got risks attached to it, particularly if those changes were made too quickly. I think this process of reform has been going on in the background for a few years now, so I think there is a trackrecord of standards and provision not slipping. We've seen small incremental improvements. So, overall, I think we can be fairly confident that standards won't slip during this period of preparation.Suzy Davies AM: CanI just ask: is that based on your evidence around primary schools, where the sort of ethos that we've seen in the curriculum has been already articulated through the foundation phase?Meilyr Rowlands: The track recordI'm talking about is across the board, so it's very difficult to think of anything that's actually got worse over the last three or four years, so it's difficult to say that standards of provision is slipping. It might not beimproving as quickly as we would like, but the purpose of major curriculum and, more generally, educational reform is to make sure that we do get a more substantial sort of improvement. I think we shouldcongratulate the profession for the work they've been doing. A large number of schools and teachers and leaders have been part of preparing the new curriculum and all the associated work, as well as doing the dayjob. I think their commitment and their engagement with curriculum reform, and engagement with wider education reform, is to be congratulated. So, I think going forward, we must make sure that that is continued;that this process that's called co-construction—engaging with the profession, making sure that they're behind all the changes—continues. I think that's what's going to make sure that we don't see any slippage.SuzyDavies AM: Okay, and on that point of comparing year on year, we will be able to make those comparisons legitimately then?Meilyr Rowlands: Yes, certainly, in terms of our inspection outcomes and our inspection work,yes.Suzy Davies AM: Okay. That's great, thank you. Can I just ask you then about the difference in preparedness between primary and secondary schools, which I've just mentioned previously, and also what your viewsare on the impact of funding for schools on that as well? Because we're in a situation where a number of primary schools have got surplus funds, sometimes that's because of end of year additional funds just beingmagicked up, but there is a serious worry that so many secondary schools are in deficit and that, overall, secondary schools are in deficit. Is there a correlation between those two positions, that secondary schools maybe less ready for this than primary schools?Meilyr Rowlands: I think it's probably true to say that secondary schools have a greater challenge than primary schools generally in terms of preparedness for the newcurriculum. I think that's why we welcomed the phasing in of the new curriculum. With any sort of education reform, you've got that danger of people wanting to see change as soon as possible on the one hand, and onthe other hand you need time to pilot things, to make sure that people have the right professional learning and make sure that there's opportunity for evaluation and thinking and so forth. So, we've got to get thatbalance right.Suzy Davies AM: Sorry, that could be difficult to do if a school doesn't have money to create that space, couldn't it?Meilyr Rowlands: Yes. You raised two issues, I think. One, about the difference betweenprimary and secondary: I think what I'm saying there is I think the fact that the new curriculum is going to be brought in for all the years in primary, but it's going to be phased in year by year for secondary is arecognition of that difference. In terms of funding, probably everyone in this room, and certainly me included, would like to see more money for the education system—any educationalist would like to see that. But, youknow, that is a decision for local and central Government to decide how much they can afford. I think there is an argument for saying that the funding has become more challenging for schools over time.Suzy DaviesAM: Can I ask, just to keep it on track, are you finding that that's having an impact on secondary schools particularly—their ability to make space to get their heads around the curriculum?Meilyr Rowlands: I don't thinkyou can make that straightforward correlation. But if you do look at surpluses and reserves, they have been more or less constant for primary schools over a long period of time, but they have declined for secondaryschools. So, I think there probably is an argument for saying that we need to look at the funding of secondary schools in particular because, overall, they're in deficit now. So, I think there is an argument for looking atthat. The other thing that's worth saying about funding is that even a small decrease in real terms can be disproportionately time consuming to manage. So, you know, if you have a large school and you have to maybemake one member of staff redundant, it can have a real big effect on the morale in the school. But also the time it takes for the headteacher and the senior staff to make those decisions can take their eye off theeducational ball because they're looking at these financial and staffing issues.Suzy Davies AM: Okay, thank you. Siân might develop that a little bit further on. The final question from me is: there's a general concernabout the number of teachers that we have in the system at the moment, particularly at secondary level and in particular subjects as well. How do you think we can improve that? What impact is it likely to have on theability of secondary schools to really get a grip on this?Meilyr Rowlands: Obviously, the most important resource for the education system is the teachers. So, it is a concern that recruitment is getting more and moredifficult and that targets for initial teacher training are not being hit. And we're not seeing them hit, if I remember correctly, even in primary, let alone secondary. So, there is a challenge, and I think we've got to look atthis in the round. We've got to make sure that we have both a long-term strategy and a shorter term strategy for this. So, long term, we've got to make sure that education is an attractive option for young people andmore mature people to want to go into. So, that is partly to do with workload and staff well-being. I think there's a general acceptance now that that needs to be higher up on the agenda, that people need to take thatseriously, and there's work going on regarding the workload issue.Suzy Davies AM: I suppose what I'm coming to, and I will finish with this, Chair, is, we're asking our existing workforce to undertake a fair bit ofcontinuous professional development—let's call it that—in order to get ready for this curriculum when they've barely got time for lunch as it is. Do you think that's going to have an impact on the ability of secondaryschools to get to grips with this, albeit that there'll be a phasing in?Meilyr Rowlands: Yes. I think it will have an effect, but I think it'll have a positive effect. I think the new curriculum, one of the things about the newcurriculum is that it re-professionalises the profession. It gives back agency and ownership to teachers. I think it's really important. And one of the reasons why teaching maybe hasn't been that attractive a profession isthat teachers in the past have just been delivering a set curriculum, and now they've got a much more creative part in deciding for themselves how to teach something and what to teach. So, I think that is a veryimportant part of attracting intelligent people into the profession.  There are short-term things we need to do, of course, as well. I think we need to have a much more varied set of routes into teaching, so I welcomesome of the part-time Open University courses, for example. So, there are lots of ways—we were talking about maybe converting people from primary into secondary, particularly in Welsh-medium, where there's ashortage. So, all those kinds of varied routes, I think, into teaching, are important as well.Suzy Davies AM: Degree apprenticeships, potentially.Meilyr Rowlands: Yes, I think it's well worth exploring that. Yes.SuzyDavies AM: Lovely. Thank you. Thank you, Chair.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Siân Gwenllian now has some questions on secondary schools causing concern. Siân.Sian Gwenllian AM: Yes. Just before going on to that, justto pick up on that last point that you made about the shortage of teachers and losing teachers during the first year of their training. Has Estyn done any themed work on that particular issue, or do you intend to doanything on that? Also, looking at the financial incentives and how they compare with the situation in England, for example; do we need, perhaps, to think about financial incentives, not just for specific subjects, but forgoing to schools where there are particular issues, perhaps?Meilyr Rowlands: Well, yes, there are currently discussions ongoing between us and the Government about working in those early years for teachers. It'spossible that we will be undertaking work in the near future on that. I know that Professor Mick Waters is looking at this currently, and we've had the discussion with him. And I think we would welcome the opportunityto look at this particular period. Now, we are, of course, looking at initial teacher training, but we haven't looked at the first couple of years for many a year.Sian Gwenllian AM: Right, thank you very much. And for yourinformation, I've commissioned a piece of work on that particular issue, and that work will be published in due course. So, I hope to have a discussion with you about that.Meilyr Rowlands: Thank you very much.Yes.Sian Gwenllian AM: In terms of the secondary schools, that’s where the problem lies, isn’t it, rather than the primary sector. How much of a concern is it to you that children’s chances of going to a secondary schoolthat is good or better appear to be 50:50, and that, indeed, over 10 per cent of secondary schools are judged to be failing and 12 per cent are under Estyn review? How much of a concern is that to you?MeilyrRowlands: Well, it is of concern to us, of course. I hope that we will have an opportunity to talk about the positive aspects of the education system in Wales, because there are a number of good things we can reportalso. The primary sector, the special sector, post-16—there are many sectors that are doing well, and I think a story that's particularly positive this year is that we have seen pupil referral units improving. We have seenexamples of excellent practice in that sector for the first time in many a year, and we've also seen excellent practice in independent special schools, which is also a sector—. Because these are two sectors where thereare very, very vulnerable children in attendance. So, I think that's very encouraging. But, you're right, of course, the biggest concern for the system, I would say, is secondary schools, and that is an issue of leadership,and also of the quality of the teaching and learning. Those are the recommendations that we make most often in our inspection reports. So, I believe that there is a need to find a long-term solution, as I mentionedpreviously, and also a short-term solution to this problem. In the long term, to improve the quality of teaching and learning—well, that’s the main aim of the new curriculum. So, I am confident that that strategy is theright strategy. It will take time, as we mentioned previously; it will take longer in secondary schools, and that's for a number of reasons, and I have discussed the challenges that are additional for secondary schools inprevious annual reports. So, there are many reasons why secondary schools find it more difficult, possibly, than primary schools. The children themselves are older and they have greater challenges. Life is morecomplicated for them, possibly. It’s more difficult to engage with the parents of older children than younger children, and that’s an important factor. That’s one of the reasons why I believe it’s important that we do havecommunity schools that ensure that the parents are part of the school’s life and take an interest in the education of their children. We also know that qualifications take a very prominent role in secondary schools’mindsets, and, in some cases, perhaps excessively so. So, we need to ensure that those qualifications are reformed as a result of the reform of the curriculum, and, of course, Qualifications Wales is carrying out thatwork currently. And also, we need to change the measures that we use to measure the schools’ successes. Now, there is work ongoing on that as well. But there are all kinds of variations and differences between theprimary and secondary sectors. In primary schools, for example, the greatest and most obvious difference, I would say, is that you’ve got one teacher who looks after a child for a whole year, and that teacher canidentify the needs of the pupil very well over a period of time, getting to know the child and, possibly, the family very well. It’s much more complicated for secondary school to do that; there have to be systems put inplace for that. So, there are many long-term things that we need to respond to. But in the short term, what is important is that those schools that cause concern receive much more support, and that is why I am gladand do welcome what's being piloted currently, which is a system of supporting these schools, the multi-agency approach, that is. So, that is something that we have been calling for for quite a long period of time andpiloted ourselves a few years ago. So, I'm very glad that we are doing this in secondary schools throughout Wales. I believe there are about 12 schools that are in that pilot scheme.Sian Gwenllian AM: You saidpreviously that it's a cause of concern for you that these schools that are failing or underachieving are not identified early enough. Are there signs that that's improving?Meilyr Rowlands: Well, one of the things that'svery positive about this pilot scheme is that it's not just the schools that are officially causing concern that are a part of the pilot scheme, that is, the schools that we have identified, through inspections, as needing tobe put in a statutory category. So, there are schools involved in the pilot scheme that the authorities and the consortia have identified themselves as schools that are at risk of causing concern. I believe that it's fair tosay that we have not reached a point yet where we have a system of agreed criteria in relation to identifying these schools yet. I think that there has been initial work that has been commissioned or that is about toarrive in relation to that, and the types of measures you would expect us to take account of would be dissatisfaction from parents, staff leaving, a change in leadership. We use surveys with the children, for instance,and that gives you quite a good idea of whether a school is possibly facing difficulties. So, there's not one single criteria alone that will tell you, 'This is a school that is at risk of causing concern', but taken together,having a set of criteria that everyone has agreed would be a good way of monitoring schools, I believe.Sian Gwenllian AM: Okay. Well, we'll be coming on to that middle tier later on, and perhaps that's where theproblem lies, namely that if there isn't an agreed system from consortia and yourselves, perhaps that's where the focus needs to be.Meilyr Rowlands: I would say that it's not the identification of the schools that is thegreatest problem. The greatest problem is ensuring that there is support for them and that the support is multi-agency support, where all the agencies that support these schools are working together.Sian GwenllianAM: Well, how long does it take, therefore, for a school to move from an improvement category, in terms of special measures, to be escalated then? Because one sees sometimes that there's an excellent school, andwithin five years' time, it's in the red. So, there's a great deal of variance in that.Meilyr Rowlands: Well, that would be something quite unusual—to move from excellent to red.Sian Gwenllian AM: Yes, well, gradually,perhaps.Meilyr Rowlands: Yes. Perhaps Claire can respond to this.Claire Morgan: On average, secondary schools that are in need of special measures take just over two years, on average. Some are shorter; some arequite a considerable amount longer. It's a little less for schools that go into significant improvement. With primary schools, of course, it's much shorter because the issues are far less complex; it's easier to bring aboutimprovements in teaching. When you've got large numbers of staff, you've got large secondary schools, it takes time to actually bring about those improvements, but it is a long time, just over two years, when youthink that some pupils, maybe in key stage 4 for the two years—. Certainly, we want to see schools coming out of category much quicker, and this is where the multi-agency approach certainly is a positive step. Allpartners involved in supporting the school are involved in these improvement boards. They focus on bringing about improvement in the areas of the school that are weakest, and it is the responsibility of everybodyinvolved—that is: ourselves, the regions, local authorities, the schools themselves and their governing bodies—to look at how they can best support the school to bring about that improvement. So, it's getting anagreement on what the issues are, and then planning the support so that we avoid duplication, but that we support the school in the areas they need more support. And we hope that this then will accelerate theimprovement of the schools that find themselves in category. But, as Meilyr already said, there are some schools involved in that particular pilot that are at danger of causing serious concern. So, the pilot is trying outthose two different approaches as well.Sian Gwenllian AM: Okay, thank you. And just finally from me, for the time being at least, the financial situation; we've spoken about that already this morning. If you could—. Iffunding was injected into the system tomorrow, say, what would you spend it on? What aspects would benefit from that additional funding?Meilyr Rowlands: Were you asking about something specific there?SianGwenllian AM: In the schools themselves, if you were a school leader, what would you—Meilyr Rowlands: Oh, if I were a school leader.Sian Gwenllian AM: Yes. How would you use any additional funding that would flowinto the school?Meilyr Rowlands: It's difficult to make that decision, because every school is different. It is important, of course, that leaders do have the power and the ability to make those decisions themselves. But,certainly, in the short term, the type of thing I would have thought would be to prepare for the new curriculum. That means freeing up teachers to think about what the new curriculum means to them. The schools thathave been a part of developing the curriculum have been in a fortunate position in that they've had plenty of time to think about this. So, it's now time—and this was the chief message of my annual report this year—forevery school in Wales to start to think. Because I think that the new curriculum is truly an opportunity to take a forward step in terms of how we teach and learn within schools. But that means that time is needed forschools to think this through and, in that thinking, to contact the community, to talk to their children as well, to see what the community in its broader sense would like to see being in the new curriculum, because it'sup to every school. Although the new curriculum sets a framework, it is up to each and every school to decide what they're going to teach, and what they're teaching in order to prepare their young people for this newworld that we have in the twenty-first century. Therefore, to give you a somewhat superficial answer, I would be setting time aside for the training of teachers.Jassa Scott: Can I just add one thing there? I think what"}
{"doc_id":"doc_85","qid":"","text":"Professor B: Is it starting now ?PhD E: Yep .Professor B: So what {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} from {disfmarker} what {disfmarker}Grad A: Hello ?Professor B: Whatever we say from now on , it can be held againstus , right ?PhD E: That 's right .Professor B: and uhGrad A: It 's your right to remain silent .Professor B: Yeah . So I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the problem is that I actually don't know how th theseheld meetings are held , if they are very informal and sort of just people are say what 's going onPhD E: Yeah .Professor B: andPhD E: Yeah , that 's usually what we do .Professor B: OK .PhD E: We just sorta go aroundand people say what 's going on , what 's the latest uh {disfmarker}Professor B: Yeah . OK . So I guess that what may be a {disfmarker} reasonable is if I uh first make a report on what 's happening in Aurora ingeneral , at least what from my perspective .PhD E: Yeah . That would be great .Professor B: And {disfmarker} and uh so , I {disfmarker} I think that Carmen and Stephane reported on uh Amsterdam meeting ,PhD D:Uh oProfessor B: which was kind of interesting because it was for the first time we realized we are not friends really , but we are competitors . Cuz until then it was sort of like everything was like wonderful and{disfmarker}PhD E: Yeah . It seemed like there were still some issues ,Professor B: Yeah .PhD E: right ? that they were trying to decide ?Professor B: There is a plenty of {disfmarker} there 're plenty of issues .PhD E:Like the voice activity detector ,Professor B: Well and what happened was that they realized that if two leading proposals , which was French Telecom Alcatel , and us both had uh voice activity detector . And I said \"well big surprise , I mean we could have told you that {pause} n n n four months ago , except we didn't because nobody else was bringing it up \" .PhD E: Right .Professor B: Obviously French Telecom didn't volunteerthis information either , cuz we were working on {disfmarker} mainly on voice activity detector for past uh several monthsPhD E: Right .Professor B: because that 's buying us the most uh thing . And everybody said \"Well but this is not fair . We didn't know that . \" And of course uh the {disfmarker} it 's not working on features really . And be I agreed .PhD E: Right .Professor B: I said \" well yeah , you are absolutely right , I mean ifI wish that you provided better end point at speech because uh {disfmarker} or at least that if we could modify the recognizer , uh to account for these long silences , because otherwise uh that {disfmarker} that{disfmarker} th that wasn't a correct thing . \" And so then ev ev everybody else says \" well we should {disfmarker} we need to do a new eval evaluation without voice activity detector , or we have to do somethingabout it \" .PhD E: Right .Professor B: And in principle I {disfmarker} uh I {disfmarker} we agreed .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor B: We said uh \" yeah \" . Because uh {disfmarker} but in that case , uh we would like tochange the uh {disfmarker} the algorithm because uh if we are working on different data , we probably will use a different set of tricks .PhD E: Right .Professor B: But unfortunately nobody ever officially can somehowacknowledge that this can be done , because French Telecom was saying \" no , no , no , now everybody has access to our code , so everybody is going to copy what we did . \" Yeah well our argument was everybody hahas access to our code , and everybody always had access to our code . We never uh {disfmarker} uh denied that . We thought that people are honest , that if you copy something and if it is protected {disfmarker}protected by patent then you negotiate , or something ,PhD E: Yeah . Right .Professor B: right ? I mean , if you find our technique useful , we are very happy .PhD E: Right .Professor B: But {disfmarker} And FrenchTelecom was saying \" no , no , no ,PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor B: there is a lot of little tricks which uh sort of uh cannot be protected and you guys will take them , \" which probably is also true . I mean , you know , itmight be that people will take uh uh th the algorithms apart and use the blocks from that . But I somehow think that it wouldn't be so bad , as long as people are happy abou uh uh uh honest about it .PhD E: Yeah.Professor B: And I think they have to be honest in the long run , because winning proposal again {disfmarker} uh what will be available th is {disfmarker} will be a code . So the uh {disfmarker} the people can go tocode and say \" well listen this is what you stole from me \"PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor B: you know ?PhD E: Right .Professor B: \" so let 's deal with that \" .PhD E: Right .Professor B: So I don't see the problem . Thebiggest problem of course is that f that Alcatel French Telecom cl claims \" well we fulfilled the conditions . We are the best . Uh . We are the standard . \" And e and other people don't feel that , because they{disfmarker} so they now decided that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} the whole thing will be done on well - endpointed data , essentially that somebody will endpoint the data based on clean speech ,because most of this the SpeechDat - Car has the also close speaking mike and endpoints will be provided .PhD E: Mm - hmm . Ah .Professor B: And uh we will run again {disfmarker} still not clear if we are going to runthe {disfmarker} if we are allowed to run uh uh new algorithms , but I assume so . Because uh we would fight for that , really . uh but {disfmarker} since uh u u n u {disfmarker} at least our experience is that onlyendpointing a {disfmarker} a mel cepstrum gets uh {disfmarker} gets you twenty - one percent improvement overall and twenty - seven improvement on SpeechDat - CarPhD E: Hmm .Professor B: then obvious thedatabase {disfmarker} uh I mean the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} uh the baseline will go up . And nobody can then achieve fifty percent improvement .PhD E: Right .Professor B: So they agreedthat uh there will be a twenty - five percent improvement required on {disfmarker} on uh h u m bad mis badly mismatched {disfmarker}PhD E: But wait a minute , I thought the endpointing really only helped in thenoisy cases .Professor B: It uh {disfmarker}PhD E: Oh , but you still have that with the MFCC .Professor B: Y yeah .PhD E: OK .Professor B: Yeah but you have the same prob I mean MFCC basically has an enormousnumber of uh insertions .PhD E: Yeah . Right . Yeah . Yeah . Yeah .Professor B: And so , so now they want to say \" we {disfmarker} we will require fifty percent improvement only for well matched condition , and onlytwenty - five percent for the serial cases . \"PhD E: Hmm .Professor B: And uh {disfmarker} and they almost agreed on that except that it wasn't a hundred percent agreed . And so last time uh during the meeting , Ijust uh brought up the issue , I said \" well you know uh quite frankly I 'm surprised how lightly you are making these decisions because this is a major decision . For two years we are fighting for fifty percentimprovement and suddenly you are saying \" oh no we {disfmarker} we will do something less \" , but maybe we should discuss that . And everybody said \" oh we discussed that and you were not a mee there \" and I said\" well a lot of other people were not there because not everybody participates at these teleconferencing c things . \" Then they said \" oh no no no because uh everybody is invited . \" However , there is only ten or fifteenlines , so people can't even con you know participate . So eh they agreed , and so they said \" OK , we will discuss that . \" Immediately Nokia uh raised the question and they said \" oh yeah we agree this is not good to touh dissolve the uh uh {disfmarker} the uh {disfmarker} the criterion . \"PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor B: So now officially , Nokia is uh uh complaining and said they {disfmarker} they are looking for support , uh I thinkQualComm is uh saying , too \" we shouldn't abandon the fifty percent yet . We should at least try once again , one more round . \"PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor B: So this is where we are .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor B:I hope that {disfmarker} I hope that this is going to be a adopted .PhD E: Hmm .Professor B: Next Wednesday we are going to have uh another uh teleconferencing call , so we 'll see what uh {disfmarker} where itgoes .PhD E: So what about the issue of um the weights on the {disfmarker} for the different systems , the well - matched , and medium - mismatched and {disfmarker}Professor B: Yeah , that 's what {disfmarker}that 's a g very good uh point , because David says \" well you know we ca we can manipulate this number by choosing the right weights anyways . \" So while you are right but {disfmarker} uh you know butPhD E: Mm -hmm .Professor B: Uh yeah , if of course if you put a zero {disfmarker} uh weight zero on a mismatched condition , or highly mismatched then {disfmarker} then you are done .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor B: Butweights were also deter already decided uh half a year ago . So {disfmarker}PhD E: And they 're the {disfmarker} staying the same ?Professor B: Well , of course people will not like it . Now {disfmarker} What ishappening now is that I th I think that people try to match the criterion to solution .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor B: They have solution . Now they want to {vocalsound} make sure their criterion is {disfmarker}PhD E:Right .Professor B: And I think that this is not the right way .PhD E: Yeah .Professor B: Uh it may be that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} Eventually it may ha may ha it may have to happen . But it 's should happen ata point where everybody feels comfortable that we did all what we could .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor B: And I don't think we did .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor B: Basically , I think that {disfmarker} that this test wasa little bit bogus because of the data and uh essentially {pause} there were these arbitrary decisions made , and {disfmarker} and everything . So , so {disfmarker} so this is {disfmarker} so this is where it is . So whatwe are doing at OGI now is uh uh uh working basically on our parts which we I think a little bit neglected , like noise separation . Uh so we are looking in ways is {disfmarker} in uh which {disfmarker} uh with which wecan provide better initial estimate of the mel spectrum basically , which would be a l uh , f more robust to noise , and so far not much uh success .PhD E: Hmm .Professor B: We tried uh things which uh a long time agoBill Byrne suggested , instead of using Fourier spectrum , from Fourier transform , use the spectrum from LPC model . Their argument there was the LPC model fits the peaks of the spectrum , so it may be m naturallymore robust in noise . And I thought \" well , that makes sense , \" but so far we can't get much {disfmarker} much out of it .PhD E: Hmm .Professor B: uh we may try some standard techniques like spectral subtractionand {disfmarker}PhD E: You haven't tried that yet ?Professor B: not {disfmarker} not {disfmarker} not much . Or even I was thinking about uh looking back into these totally ad - hoc techniquesPhD E: Hmm .ProfessorB: like for instance uh Dennis Klatt was suggesting uh the one way to uh deal with noisy speech is to add noise to everything .PhD E: Hmm !Professor B: So . {comment} I mean , uh uh add moderate amount of noiseto all data .PhD E: Oh !Professor B: So that makes uh th any additive noise less addi less a a effective ,PhD E: I see .Professor B: right ? Because you already uh had the noise uh in a {disfmarker}PhD E: Right.Professor B: And it was working at the time . It was kind of like one of these things , you know , but if you think about it , it 's actually pretty ingenious . So well , you know , just take a {disfmarker} take a spectrumand {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and add of the constant , C , to every {disfmarker} every value .PhD E: Well you 're {disfmarker} you 're basically y Yeah . So you 're making all your training data more uniform.Professor B: Exactly . And if {disfmarker} if then {disfmarker} if this data becomes noisy , it b it becomes eff effectively becomes less noisy basically .PhD E: Hmm .Professor B: But of course you cannot add too muchnoise because then you 'll s then you 're clean recognition goes down , but I mean it 's yet to be seen how much , it 's a very simple technique .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor B: Yes indeed it 's a very simple technique ,you just take your spectrum and {disfmarker} and use whatever is coming from FFT , {pause} add constant ,PhD E: Hmm .Professor B: you know ? on {disfmarker} onto power spectrum . That {disfmarker} that{disfmarker} Or the other thing is of course if you have a spectrum , what you can s start doing , you can leave {disfmarker} start leaving out the p the parts which are uh uh low in energy and then perhaps uh onecould try to find a {disfmarker} a all - pole model to such a spectrum . Because a all - pole model will still try to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to put the {disfmarker} the continuation basically of the {disfmarker} ofthe model into these parts where the issue set to zero . That 's what we want to try . I have a visitor from Brno . He 's a {disfmarker} kind of like young faculty . pretty hard - working so he {disfmarker} so he 's{disfmarker} so he 's looking into that .PhD E: Hmm .Professor B: And then most of the effort is uh now also aimed at this e e TRAP recognition . This uh {disfmarker} this is this recognition from temporal patterns .PhDE: Hmm ! What is that ?Professor B: Ah , you don't know about TRAPS !Grad A: Hmm .PhD E: The TRAPS sound familiar , I {disfmarker} but I don't {disfmarker}Professor B: Yeah I mean tha This is familiar like sort ofbecause we gave you the name , but , what it is , is that normally what you do is that you recognize uh speech based on a shortened spectrum .PhD E: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .Professor B: Essentially L P - LPC , melcepstrum , uh , everything starts with a spectral slice . Uh so if you s So , given the spectrogram you essentially are sliding {disfmarker} sliding the spectrogram along the uh f frequency axisPhD E: Mm - hmm.Professor B: and you keep shifting this thing , and you have a spectrogram .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor B: So you can say \" well you can also take the time trajectory of the energy at a given frequency \" , and whatyou get is then , that you get a p {pause} vector .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor B: And this vector can be a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} s assigned to s some phoneme . Namely you can say i it {disfmarker} I will{disfmarker} I will say that this vector will eh {disfmarker} will {disfmarker} will describe the phoneme which is in the center of the vector . And you can try to classify based on that .PhD E: Hmm .Professor B: And you{disfmarker} so you classi so it 's a very different vector , very different properties , we don't know much about it , but the truth is {disfmarker}PhD E: Hmm . But you have many of those vectors per phoneme,Professor B: Well , so you get many decisions .PhD E: right ? Uh - huh .Professor B: And then you can start dec thinking about how to combine these decisions . Exactly , that 's what {disfmarker} yeah , that 's what itis .PhD E: Hmm . Hmm .Professor B: Because if you run this uh recognition , you get {disfmarker} you still get about twenty percent error {disfmarker} uh twenty percent correct . You know ,PhD E: Hmm .Professor B:on {disfmarker} on like for the frame by frame basis , so {pause} uh {disfmarker} uh so it 's much better than chance .PhD E: How wide are the uh frequency bands ?Professor B: That 's another thing . Well c currentlywe start {disfmarker} I mean we start always with critical band spectrum . For various reasons . But uh the latest uh observation uh is that you {disfmarker} you {disfmarker} you are {disfmarker} you can get quite abig advantage of using two critical bands at the same time .Grad A: Are they adjacent , or are they sProfessor B: Adjacent , adjacent .Grad A: OK .Professor B: And the reasons {disfmarker} there are some reasons forthat . Because there are some reasons I can {disfmarker} I could talk about , will have to tell you about things like masking experiments which uh uh uh uh yield critical bands , and also experiments with release ofmasking , which actually tell you that something is happening across critical bands , across bands . And {disfmarker}PhD E: Well how do you {disfmarker} how do you uh convert this uh energy over time in a particularfrequency band into a vector of numbers ?Professor B: It 's uh uh uh I mean time T - zero is one number , {pause} time tPhD E: Yeah but what 's the number ? Is it just the {disfmarker}Professor B: It 's a spectralenergy , logarithmic spectral energy ,PhD E: it 's just the amount of energy in that band from f in that time interval .Professor B: yeah . Yes , yes . Yes , yes .PhD E: OK .Professor B: And that 's what {disfmarker} that's what I 'm saying then , so this is a {disfmarker} this is a starting vector . It 's just like shortened f {pause} spectrum , or something . But now we are trying to understand what this vector actually represents ,PhD E:Mm - hmm .Professor B: for instance a question is like \" how correlated are the elements of this vector ? \" Turns out they are quite correlated , because I mean , especially the neighboring ones , right ? They{disfmarker} they represent the same {disfmarker} almost the same configuration of the vocal tract .PhD E: Yeah . Yeah . Mm - hmm .Professor B: So there 's a very high correlation . So the classifiers which use thediagonal covariance matrix don't like it . So we 're thinking about de - correlating them .PhD E: Hmm .Professor B: Then the question is uh \" can you describe elements of this vector by Gaussian distributions \" , or towhat extent ? Because uh {disfmarker} And {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and so on and so on . So we are learning quite a lot about that . And then another issue is how many vectors we should be using ,PhD E:Hmm .Professor B: I mean the {disfmarker} so the minimum is one .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor B: But I mean is the {disfmarker} is the critical band the right uh uh dimension ? So we somehow made arbitrarydecision , \" yes \" . Then {disfmarker} but then now we are thinking a lot how to {disfmarker} uh how to use at least the neighboring band because that seems to be happening {disfmarker} This I somehow start tobelieve that 's what 's happening in recognition . Cuz a lot of experiments point to the fact that people can split the signal into critical bands , but then oh uh uh so you can {disfmarker} you are quite capable ofprocessing a signal in uh uh independently in individual critical bands . That 's what masking experiments tell you . But at the same time you most likely pay attention to at least neighboring bands when you are makingany decisions , you compare what 's happening in {disfmarker} in this band to what 's happening to the band {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to the {disfmarker} to the neighboring bands . And that 'show you make uh decisions . That 's why the articulatory events , which uh F F Fletcher talks about , they are about two critical bands . You need at least two , basically . You need some relative , relative relation .GradA: Hmm .Professor B: Absolute number doesn't tell you the right thing .PhD E: Hmm .Professor B: You need to {disfmarker} you need to compare it to something else , what 's happening but it 's what 's happening inthe {disfmarker} in the close neighborhood . So if you are making decision what 's happening at one kilohertz , you want to know what 's happening at nine hundred hertz and it {disfmarker} and maybe at elevenhundred hertz , but you don't much care what 's happening at three kilohertz .PhD E: So it 's really w It 's sort of like saying that what 's happening at one kilohertz depends on what 's happening around it . It 's sort ofrelative to it .Professor B: To some extent , it {disfmarker} that is also true . Yeah . But it 's {disfmarker} but for {disfmarker} but for instance , {vocalsound} th uh {vocalsound} uh what {disfmarker} what uhhumans are very much capable of doing is that if th if they are exactly the same thing happening in two neighboring critical bands , recognition can discard it .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor B: Is what 's happening{disfmarker}PhD E: Hmm .Grad A: Hey !Professor B: Hey ! OK , we need us another {disfmarker} another voice here .PhD E: Hey Stephane .Professor B: Yeah , I think so . Yeah ?PhD E: Yep . Sure . Go ahead.Professor B: And so so {disfmarker} so for instance if you d if you a if you add the noise that normally masks {disfmarker} masks the uh {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the signal right ?PhD E: Mm - hmm .ProfessorB: and you can show that in {disfmarker} that if the {disfmarker} if you add the noise outside the critical band , that doesn't affect the {disfmarker} the decisions you 're making about a signal within a critical band.PhD E: Hmm .Professor B: Unless this noise is modulated . If the noise is modulated , with the same modulation frequency as the noise in a critical band , the amount of masking is less . The moment you {disfmarker}"}
{"doc_id":"doc_86","qid":"","text":"Grad F: OK .PhD C: Adam , what is the mike that , uh , Jeremy 's wearing ? Grad F: It 's the ear - plug mike .Postdoc A: Ear - plug .PhD E: That 's good .PhD C: Is that a wireless , or {disfmarker} ? Oh .Grad F: No.Grad G: It 's wired .Professor B: Oh !Postdoc A: Is that {disfmarker} Does that mean you can't hear anything during the meeting ?Grad D: It 's old - school .Grad F: Huh ? What ? Huh ?Professor B: Should we , uh ,close the door , maybe ?Grad F: It {disfmarker} it 's a fairly good mike , actually .Professor B: So it 's {disfmarker} Yeah . Huh .Grad F: Well , I shouldn't say it 's a good mike . All I really know is that the signal level isOK . I don't know if it 's a {disfmarker} the quality .Professor B: Well , that 's aGrad F: Ugh ! So I didn't send out agenda items because until five minutes ago we only had one agenda item and now we have two . So .{vocalsound} And , uh .Professor B: OK . So , just to repeat the thing bef that we said last week , it was there 's this suggestion of alternating weeks on {vocalsound} more , uh , automatic speech recognition related ornot ? Was that sort of {pause} the division ?Grad F: Right .Professor B: So which week are we in ?Grad F: Well {disfmarker} We haven't really started , but I thought we more {disfmarker} we more or less did MeetingRecorder stuff last week , so I thought we could do , uh {disfmarker}Professor B: I thought we had a thing about speech recognition last week too .PhD C: Yeah .Grad F: But I figure also if they 're short agenda items ,we could also do a little bit of each .Professor B: Yeah .Grad F: So . I seem to be having difficulty getting this adjusted . Here we go .Professor B: OK .Grad F: So , uh , as most of you should know , I did send out theconsent form thingies and , uh , so far no one has made any {disfmarker} Ach ! {comment} {comment} any comments on them . So , no on no one has bleeped out anything .Professor B: Um . Yeah .Grad F: So . Idon't expect anyone to . But .Professor B: Um . {vocalsound} So , w what follows ? At some point y you go around and get people to sign something ?Grad F: No . We had spoken w about this beforeProfessor B: Yeah ,but I 've forgotten .Grad F: and we had decided that they have {disfmarker} they only needed to sign once . And the agreement that they already signed simply said that we would give them an opportunity . So as longas we do that , we 're covered .Professor B: And how long of an opportunity did you tell them ?Grad F: Uh , July fifteenth .Professor B: July fifteenth . Oh , so they have a plenty of time , and yGrad F: Yep .Professor B:Given that it 's that long , um , um {disfmarker} Why was that date chosen ? You just felt you wanted to {disfmarker} ?Grad F: Jane told me July fifteenth . So , that 's what I set it .Postdoc A: Oh . I just meant thatthat was {pause} the release date that you had on the {pause} data .Professor B: Oh , OK .Grad F: Oh . I {disfmarker} I didn't understand that there was something specific .Postdoc A: I , uh {disfmarker} I thought{disfmarker}Grad F: You {disfmarker} y you had {disfmarker}Professor B: I don't {disfmarker}Grad F: I had heard July fifteenth , so that 's what I put .Postdoc A: Mm - hmm .Professor B: No , the only {disfmarker}th the only {pause} mention I recall about that was just that July fifteenth or so is when {vocalsound} this meeting starts .Grad F: So .Postdoc A: That 's right . That 's why .Professor B: Oh , I see .Postdoc A: You saidyou wanted it to be available then .Professor B: OK .Postdoc A: I didn't mean it to be the hard deadline .Professor B: Right .Postdoc A: It 's fine with me if it is , or we cou But I thought it might be good to remind peopletwo weeks prior to thatProfessor B: wPostdoc A: in case , uh {disfmarker} you know , \" by the way {pause} this is your last {disfmarker} \"Professor B: Right .Postdoc A: Uh . Yeah .Professor B: We probably shouldhave talked about it , cuz i because if we wanna be able to give it to people July fifteenth , if somebody 's gonna come back and say \" OK , I don't want this and this and this used \" , uh , clearly we need some time torespond to that . Right ?Grad F: Yeah . As I said , we {disfmarker} I just got one dateProfessor B: Yeah .PhD H: Damn !Grad F: and that 's the one I used .Professor B: Yeah .Grad F: So . But I can send a follow - up . Imean , it 's almost all us . I mean the people who are in the meeti this meeting was , uh , these {disfmarker} the meetings that {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} are in set one .PhD C: Was my {disfmarker} was myresponse OK ?Postdoc A: That 's right .PhD C: I just wrote you {disfmarker} replied to the email saying they 're all fine .Grad F: Right . I mean , that 's fine .PhD C: OK , good .Grad F: I {disfmarker} we don't{disfmarker} My understanding of what we {pause} had agreed upon when we had spoken about this months ago was that , uh , we don't actually need a reply .PhD C: That makes it easy .Grad F: We just need to tellthem that they can do it if they want .Professor B: OK . I just didn't remember , but {disfmarker}Grad F: And so no reply is no changes .Postdoc A: And he 's got it so that the default thing you see when you look at thepage is \" OK \" .Professor B: OK .Postdoc A: So that 's very clear all the way down the page , \" OK \" . And they have two options they can change it to . One of them is {pause} \" censor \" , and the other one is \" incorrect\" . Is it {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} your word is \" incorrect \" ?Grad F: Right .Postdoc A: Which means also we get feedback on {pause} if {pause} um , there 's something that they w that needs to be {pause}adjusted , because , I mean , these are very highly technical things . I mean , it 's an added , uh , level of checking on the accuracy of the transcription , as I see it . But in any case , people can agree to things that arewrong .Grad F: Well {disfmarker}Postdoc A: So .Grad F: Yeah . The reason I did that it was just so that people would not censor {disfmarker} not ask to have stuff removed because it was transcribed incorrectly,Postdoc A: And the reason I liked it was because {disfmarker}Grad F: as opposed to , uh {disfmarker}Postdoc A: was because it , um {disfmarker} it gives them the option of , uh , being able to correct it .Grad F:Right .Postdoc A: Approve it and correct it . And {pause} um . So , you have {pause} it nicely set up so they email you and , uh {disfmarker}Grad F: When they submit the form , it gets processed and emailed to me.Postdoc A: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm . And I wanted to say the meetings that are involved in that set are Robustness and Meeting Recorder .Grad F: So .Postdoc A: The German ones will be ready for next week . Thoseare three {disfmarker} three of those . A different set of people . And we can impose {disfmarker}PhD C: The German ones ?Postdoc A: Uh , well .PhD H: Yeah . Those {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker}Professor B: NSA.Postdoc A: OK . I spoke loosely . The {disfmarker} the German , French {disfmarker} Sorry , the German , {vocalsound} Dutch , and Spanish ones .PhD E: Spanish . Yeah .Grad F: Mm - hmm .PhD C: Oh , those arethe NSA meetings ?PhD E: The non - native {disfmarker}PhD H: Those are {disfmarker}Postdoc A: Yeah . Uh - huh .Professor B: German , Dutch , Swiss and Spanish .PhD C: Oh , oh ! OK .PhD E: The all non - native{disfmarker}Postdoc A: That 's {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} that 's rGrad F: Mm - hmm .PhD H: Uh - huh .PhD C: OK . I 'd {disfmarker} I dPostdoc A: Yeah . {pause} It 's the other group .Professor B: I It was thenetwork {disfmarker} network services group .PhD C: OK .Postdoc A: Uh - huh . Yeah , exactly . Yeah .Professor B: Yeah .Postdoc A: I didn't mean to {pause} isolate them .Professor B: Otherwise known as the German, Dutch , and Spanish .Postdoc A: Yeah . Sorry . It was {disfmarker} it was not the best characterization .Grad F: Mm - hmm .Postdoc A: But what {disfmarker} {vocalsound} what I meant to say was that it 's the othergroup that 's not {disfmarker} n no m no overlap with our present members . And then maybe it 'd be good to set an explicit deadline , something like {pause} a week {pause} before that , uh , J July fifteenth date , ortwo weeks before .Professor B: I mean , I would suggest we discuss {disfmarker} I mean , if we 're going to have a policy on it , that we discuss the length of time that we want to give people ,Grad F: Mm - hmm.Professor B: so that we have a uniform thing . So , tha that 's a month , which is fine . I mean , it seems {disfmarker}PhD C: Twelve hours .Grad F: Well , the only thing I said in the email is that {pause} the data isgoing to be released on the fifteenth . I didn't give any other deadline .Postdoc A: Mm - hmm .Grad F: So my feeling is if someone after the fifteenth says , \" wow I suddenly found something \" , we 'll delete it from ourrecord . We just won't delete it from whatever 's already been released .Postdoc A: Hmm . That 's a little bit difficult .Grad F: What else can we do ?Postdoc A: Yeah .Grad F: If someone says \" hey , look , I {pause}found something in this meeting and {pause} it 's libelous and I want it removed \" . What can we do ?Postdoc A: Well . {pause} That 's true .Grad F: We have to remove it .Postdoc A: I {disfmarker} I agree with thatpart , but I think that it would {disfmarker} it , uh {disfmarker} we need to have , uh , a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a message to them very clearly that {vocalsound} beyond this date , you can't make additionalchanges .Professor B: I mean , um , I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} {vocalsound} i I think that somebody might {pause} request something even though we say that . But I think it 's good to at least start some placelike that .Postdoc A: Mm - hmm . Good .Professor B: So if we agreed , {vocalsound} OK , how long is a reasonable amount of time for people to have {disfmarker} if we say two weeks , or if we say a month , I think weshould just say that {disfmarker} say that , you know , i a as {pause} um , {vocalsound} \" per the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the , uh , page you signed , you have the ability to look over this stuff \" and so forth \"and , uh , because we w \" these , uh {disfmarker} I would {disfmarker} I would imagine some sort of generic thing that would say \" because we , uh , will continually be making these things available {vocalsound} toother researchers , uh , this can't be open - ended and so , uh , uh , please give us back your response within this am you know , within this amount of time \" , whatever time we agree upon .Grad F: Well , did you readthe email and look at the pages I sent ?Professor B: Did I ? No , I haven't yet . No , just {disfmarker}Grad F: No . OK , well why don't you do that and then make comments on what you want me to change ?ProfessorB: No , no . I 'm not saying that you should change anything . I I 'm {disfmarker} what I 'm {disfmarker} what I 'm {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I 'm trying to spark a discussion hopefully among people who have read itso that {disfmarker} that you can {disfmarker} {vocalsound} you can , uh , decide on something .Postdoc A: Mm - hmm .Professor B: So I 'm not telling you what to decide .Postdoc A: Mm - hmm .Professor B: I 'mjust saying you should decide something ,Postdoc A: OK .Professor B: and then {disfmarker}Grad F: I already did decide something , and that 's what 's in the email .Postdoc A: Yeah , yeah . OK , so {disfmarker}GradF: And if you disagree with it , why don't you read it and give me comments on it ?Postdoc A: Yeah . Well {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think that there 's one missing line .Professor B: Well , the one thing that I didread and that you just repeated to me {pause} was that you gave the specific date of July fifteenth .Grad F: Mm - hmm .Professor B: And you also just said that the reason you said that was because someone said it toyou . So what I 'm telling you {pause} is that what you should do is come up with a length of time that you guys think is enoughGrad F: Right .Professor B: and you should use that rather than {pause} this date thatyou just got from somewhere . That 's all I 'm saying .Grad F: OK .Professor B: OK ?Postdoc A: I ha I have one question . This is in the summer period and presumably people may be out of town . But we can make theassumption , can't we ? that , um , they will be receiving email , uh , most of the month . Right ? Because if someone {disfmarker}Professor B: It {disfmarker} well , it {disfmarker} well , you 're right . Sometimessomebody will be {pause} away and , uh , you know , there 's , uh {disfmarker} for any length of time that you {vocalsound} uh , choose {pause} there is some person sometime who will not {pause} end up reading it.Postdoc A: OK .Professor B: That 's {disfmarker} it 's , you know , just a certain risk to take .PhD H: S so maybe when {disfmarker} Am I on , by the way ?Grad F: I don't know . You should be .PhD H: Oh . Hello ?Hello ?Grad F: You should be channel B .PhD H: Oh , OK . Alright . So . The , um {disfmarker} Maybe we should say in {disfmarker} w you know , when the whole thing starts , when they sign the {disfmarker}{vocalsound} the agreement {vocalsound} that {disfmarker} you know , specify exactly uh , what , you know , how {disfmarker} how they will be contacted and they can , you know {disfmarker} they can be asked togive a phone number and an email address , or both . And , um , then {disfmarker}Postdoc A: We did that , I {disfmarker} I believe .PhD H: Right .PhD E: Yeah .PhD H: So . {vocalsound} A And , then , you know , sayvery clearly that if they don't {disfmarker} if we don't hear from them , you know , as Morgan suggested , by a certain time or after a certain {vocalsound} period after we contact them {vocalsound} that is implicitlygiving their agreement .Grad F: Well , they 've already signed a form .Postdoc A: And the form says {disfmarker}PhD E: And nobody {disfmarker} nobody really reads it anyway .PhD H: Right .Grad F: So . And the sand the form was approved by Human Subjects ,PhD H: Says that . Right .Postdoc A: Uh , the fPhD H: Well , if that 's i tha if that 's already {disfmarker} if {disfmarker}Grad F: so , eh , that 's gonna be a little hard tomodify .Postdoc A: Well , the form {disfmarker} Well , the form doesn't say , if {disfmarker} uh , you know , \" if you don't respond by X number of days or X number of weeks {disfmarker} \"PhD H: I see . Uh{disfmarker} Oh , OK . So what does it say about the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the process of {disfmarker} of , uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} y the review process ?Postdoc A: It doesn't have a time limit . Thatyou 'll be provided access to the transcripts and then , uh , allowed to {pause} remove things that you 'd like to remove , before it goes to the general {disfmarker} uh , larger audience .PhD H: Oh , OK . Hmm . Right.Grad F: Here .Postdoc A: There you go .Grad F: You can read what you already signed .PhD H: Oh .PhD E: I guess when I {pause} read it , um {disfmarker}PhD H: OK .PhD E: I 'm not as diligent as Chuck , but I hadthe feeling I should probably respond and tell Adam , like , \" I got this and I will do it by this date , and if you don't hear from me by then {disfmarker} \" You know , in other words responding to your email {pause}once , right away , saying \" as soon as you get this could you please respond . \"Grad F: Right .PhD E: And then if you {disfmarker} if the person thinks they 'll need more time because they 're out of town or whatever ,they can tell you at that point ? Because {disfmarker}Grad F: Oh , I just {disfmarker} I didn't wanna do that , because I don't wanna have a discussion with every person {pause} if I can avoid it .PhD E: Well , it 's{disfmarker}Grad F: So what I wanted to do was just send it out and say \" on the fifteenth , the data is released ,Postdoc A: Mm - hmm .Grad F: if you wanna do something about it , do something about it , but that 'sit \" .Postdoc A: I {disfmarker} I kind of like this .PhD E: Well {disfmarker}Postdoc A: Yeah .PhD E: OK . So , we 're assuming that {disfmarker}PhD H: Well , that 's {disfmarker} that would be great if {disfmarker} butyou should probably have a {pause} legal person look at this and {pause} make sure it 's OK . Because if you {disfmarker} if you , uh , do this {vocalsound} and you {disfmarker} then there 's a dispute later and , uh ,some {disfmarker} {vocalsound} you know , someone who understands these matters concludes that they didn't have , uh , you know , enough opportunity to actually {vocalsound} exercise their {disfmarker} theirright {disfmarker}PhD E: Or they {disfmarker} they might never have gotten the email , because although they signed this , they don't know by which date to expect your email . And so {pause} someone whosemachine is down or whatever {disfmarker} I mean , we have no {disfmarker}Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD E: in internally we know that people are there ,Grad F: Well , OK . l Let me {disfmarker} Let me reverse this.PhD E: but we have no confirmation that they got the mail .Grad F: So let 's say someone {disfmarker} I send this out , and someone doesn't respond . Do we delete every meeting that they were in ?PhD E: Well ,then {disfmarker}Grad F: I don't think so .PhD E: It {disfmarker} we 're hoping that doesn't happen ,PhD H: No .PhD E: but that 's why there 's such a thing as registered mailGrad F: That will happen .PhD E: or{disfmarker}PhD H: That will happen .PhD E: Right .Grad F: That will absolutely happen . Because people don't read their email , or they 'll read and say \" I don't care about that , I 'm not gonna delete anything \" andthey don just won't reply to it .PhD H: Maybe {disfmarker} uh , do we have mailing addresses for these people ?Grad F: No . We have what they put on the speaker form ,PhD H: No .Postdoc A: Well {disfmarker}{comment} {vocalsound} Most {disfmarker}Grad F: which was just generic contact information .PhD H: Oh .Postdoc A: But the ones that we 're dealing with now are all local ,PhD H: Well , then {disfmarker}Postdoc A:except the ones who {disfmarker} I mean , we {disfmarker} we 're totally in contact with all the ones in those two groups .PhD H: Mmm . OK .Postdoc A: So maybe , uh , I {disfmarker} you know , that 's not thatmany people and if I {disfmarker} if , uh {disfmarker} i i there is an advantage to having them admit {disfmarker} and if I can help with {disfmarker} with processing that , I will . It 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker}there is an advantage to having them be on record as having received the mail and indicating {disfmarker}Grad F: Yeah . I mean I thought we had discussed this , like , a year ago .Postdoc A: Yes , we did .Grad F: Andso it seems like this is a little odd for it to be coming up yet again .Postdoc A: You 're right . Well , I {disfmarker} you know . But sometimes {disfmarker}Professor B: Well , we {disfmarker} we haven't experienced itbefore .Grad F: So .Postdoc A: That 's right .Professor B: Right ? So {disfmarker}PhD E: You 'll either wonder {pause} at the beginning or you 'll wonder at the end .Postdoc A: Need to get it right .PhD E: I mean , there's no way to get around {disfmarker} I It 's pretty much the same am amount of work except for an additional email just saying they got the email .Postdoc A: Yeah .PhD E: And maybe it 's better legally to wonderbefore {disfmarker} you know , a little bit earlier than {disfmarker}Grad F: Well {disfmarker}Postdoc A: It 's much easier to explain {pause} this way .Grad F: OK . Well , why don't you talk {pause} tPostdoc A: T t tohave it on record .Grad F: Morgan , can you talk to our lawyer about it , and find out what the status is on this ? Cuz I don't wanna do something that we don't need to .Postdoc A: Yeah , but w Mmm .Grad F: Becausewhat {disfmarker} I 'm telling you , people won't respond to the email . No matter what you do , you there 're gonna be people who {pause} you 're gonna have to make a lot of effort to get in contact with .Postdoc A:Well , then we make the effort .Grad D: I mean , i it 's kGrad F: And do we want to spend that effort ?PhD H: Hmm .Postdoc A: We make the effort .Grad D: It 's kind of like signing up for a mailing list . They have opt inand opt out . And there are two different ways . I mean , and either way works probably , I mean .Postdoc A: Except I really think in this case {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I 'm agr I agree with Liz , that we need to be{pause} in the clear and not have to after the fact say \" oh , but I assumed \" , and \" oh , I 'm sorry that your email address was just accumulating mail without notifying you \" , you know .Professor B: If this is a purelyadministrative task , we can actually have administration do it .Postdoc A: Oh , excellent .Professor B: But the thing is that , you know , I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think , without going through a whole expensivething with our lawyers , {vocalsound} from my previous conversations with them , my {disfmarker} my sense very {pause} much is that we would want something on record {pause} as indicating that they actuallywere aware of this .Postdoc A: Yes .Grad F: Well , we had talked about this beforeProfessor B: Mm - hmm .Grad F: and I thought that we had even gone by the lawyers asking about that and they said you have to s"}
{"doc_id":"doc_87","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Hello again .User Interface: Hello .Industrial Designer: Hi . {vocalsound}Marketing: Hey , Project Manager .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Um , Project Manager , I have something totell you .Project Manager: Mm yeah .User Interface: I have a little problems with my laptop .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: And uh s s s so I had a little less time to complete .Project Manager: Okay .UserInterface: No , a little problem , uh {vocalsound} big problem . I just thought {disfmarker}Marketing: What was it , problem ?User Interface: Um , it didn't work anymore . {vocalsound}Marketing: The laptop ?UserInterface: The entire Windows uh {disfmarker}Marketing: It hang {disfmarker} hung .User Interface: It it hung . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Ha-ha . Oh . Project Manager .Project Manager:{vocalsound} Yes . {vocalsound} Yes .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: You're our Project Manager .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Your project manager . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Welcome to the conceptual design meetingIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: for Real Reaction.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh , hello again . Uh it's uh the same as the last time . Uh uh , also this time there will be uh three presentations .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: And weum must uh reach a decision on uh the remote control concepts . Um uh , and at the end , uh I uh , when I finish it off I have some uh input from uh a master class I uh {vocalsound} visited . {vocalsound} {gap}information . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: During lunch , yeah .Marketing: Master .User Interface: He's the master , yeah . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}ProjectManager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: The the the the the concepts on uh {disfmarker} we uh {disfmarker} where we uh must reach a decision on . Um uh , our {disfmarker} fromuh are of two sorts .Marketing: Master of {disfmarker}Project Manager: Components concepts and user interface concepts . Uh , the first one is uh really about the the the the the total package uh with uh {disfmarker}Well , we have decided to do a {disfmarker} do the uh {disfmarker} with a touch-screen that must be a case around it so uh it won't be uh uh as breakable . Uh how how about the energy ? Can you uh can you reload itor uh just have batteries which you must exchange ? Uh , the user interface concept . Uh , with the type and uh the the supplements . So uh where to put what button . {vocalsound} And uh uh I would say uh{disfmarker} Jans , can you begin ?Industrial Designer: Yeah , sure .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: At the end , uh {disfmarker} I will take notes uh and at the end of the minutes uhwill uh be at the shared folder .Industrial Designer: Okay . Uh , let me see . I think it's this one . Ha .User Interface: Wow .Industrial Designer: Right . Uh , well , I'll be talking about the components .Marketing:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Uh , what I did was I reviewed previously used items uh by uh two two uh different uh age groups .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Uh below forty five and above . Anduh I just uh watch what the differences are and I checked uh , well , what what d do we want , and {gap} how can we uh d aim a at uh the target group . Well uh what I found was that a senior um {disfmarker}ProjectManager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} senior citizens uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I'm sorry . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Ye Ah , it's {vocalsound} it's okay.Marketing: Okay . Go on . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} They , well , they like more the {disfmarker} they like the traditional materials , like wood and and such more .Marketing:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Wood and chrome .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: And uh uh they like uh straightforward shapes . Um , uh they they they they like luxurious uh styles , wherewhereas the young and dynamic , they like a more uh soft materials . Think of the Teletubbies , for instance .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Uh uh , soft and fluffy and colourful and{disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Well uh , shapes are curved and round .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Y y you get {vocalsound} the picture . And uh they like sports andgaming , and that gives them uh the vitality . Uh , so w well uh , firsProject Manager: One one little question .Industrial Designer: Yes .Project Manager: Um about the the material .Industrial Designer: Yeah .ProjectManager: Uh a soft material for a remote control ?Industrial Designer: No , I'll I'll get to that .Project Manager: Okay . Yeah .Industrial Designer: You you'll see . Yeah .Project Manager: Thank you .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Uh , well f first off , let's start start with the energy . W I uh I had a choice between uh a few different uh sources .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: But uh the two basicsources that I found were the best possible were the battery uh versus kinetic . Uh kinetic , that's when you move something , then uh it gets energy . I figured , well that's ki kinda high-tech , when when you have aremote control that well , when you pick it up , it has power . That would be actually very nice , uh I figured .Project Manager: Oh .Industrial Designer: Well , we could also use a battery , that's a bit{disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah but when the power gets low , you have to shake it or something ?Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah . Yeah yeah , you c just you haveto shake it around a little bit .Marketing: Uh , and uh uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: And then then it d then it has some more uh energy .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Hmm .Industrial Designer: Well, y you could just go for a battery . Or you can go for both ?User Interface: Oh , have you considered the option of using a solar panel ?Industrial Designer: Yeah , I actually did . But uh the thing is about solar panel isyou have to have l uh light . Well , sunlight preferably .User Interface: W {gap} nah .Industrial Designer: Uh , and you you could you could use normal light , but uh you wouldn't get the same amount of energy thatyou would from a battery or something .User Interface: Mm . Yeah .Industrial Designer: Uh for uh ultimate b uh {vocalsound} n uh use of uh solar panels , you could actually use uh {disfmarker} you could use uh solarpanels , but uh you ha you'd have to implement them into uh the remote control , leaving you uh a bit less space for the interface .Marketing: Mm yeah . It's too less space .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Souh {disfmarker} so i i it it wo what's actually {disfmarker} I I c just in f I've figured it out that well , uh seeing that you'll always be uh within the l uh distance of T_V_ , and the {disfmarker} from T_V_ there comes a aa whole bunch of light . So it would actually power itself uh from a T_V_ .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: But , well you just take up all the space , and you wouldn't uh have the fullamount of power actually used .User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: But you prefer kinetic ?Industrial Designer: So {disfmarker} I I prefer kinetic because it's uh {disfmarker} well , the costs aren't that much higher, and um , ju just a bit more high-tech than than a normal battery .Project Manager: Okay . Yeah , but you don't move a a remote control too much .Industrial Designer: I mean , if {disfmarker} No , but uh d Well , youpick it up and you press buttons and y well , you {disfmarker}Project Manager: And that's enough to to keep the energy level uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah , well uh actually it is .Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: And it it {disfmarker} if it isn't , you just shake it a bit and and add add with power up again .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: But, what l what Jarek said , you could you could use a battery that you'd just keep it on the recharging whenever it moves . And for rest , you'd just add juice on the battery .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: And whenthe battery doesn't work , I usually shake it too . So {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Thank you , Tim . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Exactly .{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Like slamming on it . {vocalsound} It's exactly the same . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: And so that {disfmarker} Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Uh well ,User Interface:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: f furthermore , you you {disfmarker} we {gap} {disfmarker} uh checked uh the cases .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: We have uhdifferent options uh concerning the cases . You ha I {disfmarker} you sim uh you simply add a basic uh standard uh model uh {disfmarker} it was kind of square and uh I figured that's a bit boring . So you you{disfmarker} we could go for uh the single curved or the double curved . Um , single curve , it's just a {disfmarker} well , uh , you know , it's just uh a nice curve . Or but but you could go in a in an double curves . Andthat's {gap} like several different dimensions .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: That gives you an whole new uh effecProject Manager: Dynamic dynamic look ?Marketing: Hmm .Industrial Designer: Yeah ,that gives you a younger and uh more high-tech look , I f I figured . But , that uh we'll discuss later .Marketing: But , are you going to draw it ?Industrial Designer: What ?User Interface: Th th yeah . Yeah .IndustrialDesigner: You want me to draw in three-D_ ?Marketing: The {disfmarker} Yeah . Yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Uh , I c I can't imagine .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh , yeah , I ca I ca I could Icould show you . I could show you .Marketing: I can't imagine how how how it looks like .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Well uh let's say y uh you uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah .IndustrialDesigner: Let's say that's your standard uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Design .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: That's a bit your d standard design . But you could actually go like uh something like this.Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: And then uh in three-D_ effect you could go {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager:{vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So y you you just {disfmarker} Yeah , this is a {disfmarker} this {vocalsound} bit uh difficulty in {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I didn't take a major in art . So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} But but you could have uh uh a whole new uh the back back the the the depth , you could you could uh justplay around a bit with .Marketing: Oh , okay . Okay .Industrial Designer: You you don't have to use standard uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Oh , okay .Project Manager: A little artistic .Industrial Designer: Yeah you could{disfmarker} y It leaves more space for creativity .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: Uh that might be an idea ,Marketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: but {vocalsound} just a {disfmarker} Well , furthermore, uh well , uh plastic versus rubber ? You {disfmarker} We could choose uh what uh what's better , plastic um or rubber . I I ch prefer rubber because it feels uh {disfmarker} Yeah .Project Manager: It's soft .IndustrialDesigner: Yeah , it's soft and it's {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I like soft .Project Manager: {vocalsound} That's the material the younger people want uh , ain't it ?User Interface:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah , yeah I mean uh plastic uh is {disfmarker} Plastic also has that cheap feeling to it , {vocalsound} like plastic uh {disfmarker} Your your {disfmarker} I usuallyassociate plastic with uh something that's cheap . Uh that's maybe just me , but {disfmarker} Uh , we could uh uh , oh , talk about it later . Uh furthermore , buttons . Uh traditional uh or a touch screen . Well , wediscussed it in a previous meeting , so I figured I'll just leave it at the L_C_D_ . And uh chip set , well uh if we are going to use traditional buttons , we could go uh with a simple chip set . But uh if we decide to go on a nuh um L_C_D_ screen , we would use an uh {disfmarker} we have to use an a advanced chip set . And that would bring uh the necessary costs with with it . So that's something we th have to keep in mind . If it isn't uhmanageable uh budget-wise , we'd have to go over to uh to sim to simple buttons .Marketing: Well , I think uh we're going to sell tell {disfmarker} ten millions of them . So uh I bet a big company in uh Korea or Taiwan, like uh Samsung , can give us uh a big discount on the chips , so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Yeah , probably .Marketing: U usually , chips are uharen't more expensive than one dollar .Industrial Designer: Yeah , probably , but {disfmarker} But uh yeah , that's that's {disfmarker}Marketing: So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} That that shouldn't be a real issue , Ithink .Industrial Designer: That shouldn't shouldn't be uh that big a issue . I'll I'll I'll just add , uh uh I put a big summary here , so we could discuss it a bit . Uh {gap} what i what are your ideas {gap} concerningbattery versus kinetic ?Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Um , I think you should use kinetic as a back-up .Industrial Designer: Yeah , you you you should {disfmarker} we should {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah , acombination .User Interface: A combination , yeah .Industrial Designer: A combination . Uh , {gap} you use the battery and w charge it up with kinetic . When you pick it up , it charges up .Marketing: Yeah . Like an uhaku uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Acu uh , yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah yeah , I know .User Interface: Okay . Yeah .Project Manager: Just like the watch from Seiko .Marketing: {vocalsound}Well , {gap} . Yeah .User Interface: Psycho-kinetic . {vocalsound} Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah , I con Exactly .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: What uh what do you think ?Project Manager: I I uh Iwould prefer uh both uh too .Industrial Designer: You agree ?Project Manager: Yeah . Combine them .Industrial Designer: Yeah ? Both ?Marketing: Combine them .Industrial Designer: Okay . Uh , well that would bringthe m m some more costs , but I mean the {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Who cares , right .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound} That's the Project Manager's problem . {vocalsound}User Interface: Buy a fifty cents battery and uh {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Of course . Fifty cent . {vocalsound}Project Manager:{vocalsound} {gap} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah , {vocalsound} well {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Fifty cent uh {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh , why doesn't{disfmarker} And then we have single-curved versus double-curved .User Interface: Well maybe I have something in my presentation to uh to cope with that .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} That {disfmarker}{gap} Okay . No , we'll we'll just wait and uh {disfmarker} Uh , plastic versus rubber . Any ideas ?Marketing: Rubber .Project Manager: Rubber . Yeah .Industrial Designer: Uh , rubber ?User Interface: Um , isn'tpossible to make combination with kind of rubber is {gap} or bendable remotes where you've got a {gap} .Industrial Designer: You {disfmarker}User Interface: Or do you think it {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Uh ,I figured it will be m rather than hard {disfmarker}User Interface: Rubber casing , yeah .Industrial Designer: Nah , rubber c uh this is a casing , yeah . Rubber casing ,Marketing: Rather hard .Industrial Designer:because well if you use an uh d a touch-screen , uh it's just a casing uh around it . So um , you could go for plastic , but I figured {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: Um , well d Maybe Ican ask it right now the question that I have .Industrial Designer: I I I would choose rubber .User Interface: Uh , is it possible uh of {disfmarker} is it necessary to make a touch-screen square ? It isn't , I think , yeah?Industrial Designer: Well , m I don't know . No .Marketing: Well , I think that touch-screens are generally square .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: But it's the case you put around it thatmakes the shape .User Interface: We're {disfmarker} We put fashion in electronics ,Industrial Designer: That isn't {disfmarker}User Interface: so maybe we can uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Hmm ? Yeah okay , but ifyou have a square uh L_C_D_ screen , and you put a case around it that has uh like bulbs or that that covers part of the L_C_D_ screen .User Interface: Mm yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface:Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Yeah , that would cover it .Marketing: That {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: That that would solve the problem .User Interface: Oh , yeah . Okay , I I get it .Marketing: That's{disfmarker} it's custom customisable and {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm yeah .Industrial Designer: So mm {disfmarker} Uh uh so uh so what are the opinions ? Uh rubber or plastic ? I I I prefer rubber .Marketing:Yeah , me too .Project Manager: Me too .User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: Yeah ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah , you too ?User Interface: That's good .Industrial Designer: You sure ? You {gap} you youseemed to hesitate a bit .User Interface: Well , as long a as long as it's it's uh it's firm , and you don't uh {disfmarker} it's not bendable or something ,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm yeah .UserInterface: I th I think that goes too far .Industrial Designer: Yeah , it it shouldn't it shouldn't flop over when you hold it in your hand uhProject Manager: Okay .User Interface: Oh . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{disfmarker} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} No , that that that that's gonna {disfmarker} The the chip set will hold it firm in place ,Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: Okay .IndustrialDesigner: and uh and and uh and a L_C_D_ screen also {disfmarker}User Interface: It might even bounce back when you drop it on the floor .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah it {vocalsound} m might it might.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh , tra uh traditional versus L_C_D_ , well I figured we we all set on that .Marketing:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: And uh , then also the simple versus advanced . Well I figure if we go for L_ L_C_D_ , we we should have the advanced .Project Manager: Mm yeah .Industrial Designer: So thatshouldn't be a problem .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Okay , well that's my uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Thank you .Industrial Designer: Uh , you're welcome .Marketing: Can I uh do my thing ?ProjectManager: Yeah . Do your thing , Tim .Marketing: It uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: Do your thing . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {gap} {vocalsound}Project Manager: Bring it on .{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Expert map .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay uh {disfmarker} Last weekProject Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: I went to uhParis and Milan for some trend-watching .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: For marketing . Our research and development department and I went to Paris and Milan . In Paris and Milan , we uh askeddifferent people , uh differing in age and in income , uh the amount of money to spend , um {vocalsound} what they like in design uh and material nowadays . Findings . Our main audience , uh so that's people belowforty , uh prefer the following . At first , the colours of fruit .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Very basic colours , like Janus explained . Um , fresh colours , uh green , red , uh strawberry red , uh yellow ,banana yellow .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Um , considering material , um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Yeah . They like spongy material ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface:Spongeball .Marketing: like {disfmarker} yeah a sponge-ball .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Like a s soft material .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Janus m uh mentioned it also . I think he did some uh"}
{"doc_id":"doc_88","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Okay we all all set ? Right . Well this is the uh final detailed design meeting . Um we're gonna discuss the look and feel design , the user interface design , and we're gonna evaluate the product . Andthe end result of this meeting has to be a decision on the details of this remote control , like absolute final decision , um and then I'm gonna have to specify the final design in the final report . So um just from from lasttime to recap , we said we were gonna have a snowman shaped remote control with no L_C_D_ display , no need for talk-back , it was hopefully gonna be kinetic power and battery uh with rubber buttons , maybebacklighting the buttons with some internal L_E_D_s to shine through the casing , um hopefully a jog-dial , and incorporating the slogan somewhere as well . Anything I've missed ?Industrial Designer: No .ProjectManager: Okay um so uh if you want to present your prototype go ahead .User Interface: Uh-oh . This is it ? {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Ninja Homer , made in Japan . {vocalsound}User Interface: Um , there area few changes we've made .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Um , well look at the expense sheet , and uh it turned to be quite a lot expensive to have open up and have lots of buttons and stuff inside ,ProjectManager: Mm . Mm-hmm .User Interface: so instead we've um {disfmarker} this is gonna be an L_C_D_ screen , um just a a very very basic one , very small um with access to the menu through the the scroll wheeland uh confirm um button .Marketing: Mm 'kay .User Interface: Uh , apart from that , it's just pretty much the same as we discussed last time .Industrial Designer: And there isn't uh d it doesn't open up to theadvanced functions ? the advanced functions are still hidden from you , but they're hidden in the sense that um they're not in use .Marketing: Where are they ?Industrial Designer: Um they're in the L_C_D_ panel andthe jog-dial ?Marketing: Ah , right .Industrial Designer: Okay 'cause {disfmarker}Project Manager: So w what kind of thing uh is gonna be {disfmarker}Marketing: Great .User Interface: {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: The L_C_D_ panel just displays um functionally what you're doing . If you're using an advanced function right , like um c brightness , contrast , whatever , it will just say {disfmarker}Marketing: Right . Okay.Industrial Designer: You know it's like it only has four columns , it's a very simple L_C_D_ like , whereas many {disfmarker} the minimum amount we need that the user will automatically know like this is brightness orthis is contrast .Marketing: Right .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Okay cool .Marketing: Right , 'kay .Industrial Designer: It might even be one , a bit more complex L_C_D_ panel with pictures like maybe the sun or the ,you know , the the symbols of the various functions .Marketing: OkayProject Manager: Oh right okay .Marketing: Mm-hmm , and what is this here ?Project Manager: Cool .Industrial Designer: That's a number pad.Marketing: Okay so the number pad is {disfmarker} 'Kay , great .Project Manager: Where are we gonna have the slogan ?Industrial Designer: Um they're al along this {disfmarker}User Interface: You know , just likeright inside there .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay cool .Industrial Designer: You have this space here , and then you have this thing on the side as well , or at the bottom .Project Manager:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: 'Cause slogans are usually quite small , right ,Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: they're not like hugeMarketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: so they're sMarketing: Yep.Industrial Designer: Say a button's aboutProject Manager: Okay .Marketing: Looks good .Industrial Designer: say a button's about this size , right , so you would still have plenty of space for a slogan , say even for that.Marketing: Yep . {vocalsound} Mm-hmm .Project Manager: So if this isn't to scale , what kind of dimensions are you thinking about here ?User Interface: {vocalsound} Well {vocalsound} we want the other buttons tobe big enough to push easily with a fingerProject Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: so we reckon maybe that'll be about the same size as the palm of your hand . {gap}Marketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: Yep sothat would be about a centimetre for a button , so one two three four centimetres . Plus maybe half o fiveMarketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: six seven eight ,Marketing: About nine in total .Project Manager: Six ,seven , eight , nine , ten .Industrial Designer: about yeah nine total .Project Manager: So we're talking about ten centimetres .Marketing: That sounds good . Yeah .Project Manager: That would be good . So tencentimetres in height .Marketing: Yep .Industrial Designer: Nine , ten . Yep .Project Manager: Okay um {vocalsound} .Marketing: That'd be good , in fact a pen is about ten centimetres usually , so that would be{disfmarker} that sounds like a really good size , if you see it there .Project Manager: Yeah . That's great and it's very bright as well . So um okay .Marketing: Mm . Is it possible {disfmarker} uh I'm just gonna bring upthe idea of colours . Is these are these the colours that {disfmarker} of production , or is this just what we had available ?User Interface: Well I'm {disfmarker} We're gonna have again the the sort of the foggy umyellow from last time that lit up when you pushed the button .Marketing: Right .Project Manager: Okay so just {disfmarker}User Interface: Um {disfmarker}Project Manager: could you just list all the things that it doess so I can write them in the report .User Interface: But um {vocalsound} this button um , because it's red it's sort of very prominent , we're gonna use it as uh {disfmarker} it can be the power button if you hold it formaybe two seconds it'll send a stand-by signal .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Excuse me .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Um apart from that it's gonna be used as a confirm button for the L_C_D_screenIndustrial Designer: Sure .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: and you use this as a jog-dial .Project Manager: Okay so that's like an okay button , right .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Oh we'vediscussed how h high it is , but how wide is it ? {vocalsound}User Interface: I don't know . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: How high is it ?Industrial Designer: No as in the height , but what about thewidth ?Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Oh ohUser Interface: Didn't put five centimetres .Project Manager: like depth of the actual thing .Industrial Designer: Do we need five ? I don't think five is {disfmarker}UserInterface: Um .Industrial Designer: be about th three and a half .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Oh is this k to get an idea of scale from your from your thing there okay .User Interface: Something by there.Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah .Marketing: Sure .Project Manager: So you can power on and off , what else can you do ?Marketing: Three and a half .User Interface: Um you can skip straight to a channel using thesebuttons .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Um , were gonna have the volume control here , but um because we've got the the L_C_D_ and the jog-dial we just thought we'd um use that as the volume .ProjectManager: Okay jog-dial for volume . And what else do you do with the jog-dial ?Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Um you can use it for um more advanced functions like contrast , colour and {disfmarker}ProjectManager: Contrast , brightness ,User Interface: Um yeah .Project Manager: yeah , and anything else ?User Interface: Um just whatever else we wanted to include as the advanced functions , um we didn't actually gothrough and specify the {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well of the designers what are they ?User Interface: Uh what can a T_V_ do ?Industrial Designer: Okay things like um brightness , contrast ,Project Manager:Uh-huh .Industrial Designer: um maybe tuning the channels .Project Manager: Okay channel tuning .Industrial Designer: Um .Project Manager: That's a good one .Industrial Designer: What else ? Um the various inputs. Are you having a V_C_R_ , are you having {disfmarker} you know which input do you have ?Marketing: Mm-hmm , mm-hmm .Project Manager: Okay auxiliary inputs .Marketing: Mm-hmm ,Industrial Designer: Um.Marketing: probably colour or sharpness .Industrial Designer: Yep , colour , sharpness . Um a lot of these things will have to be um free and open for users to define them .Project Manager: Sharpness . Okay whatabout uh sound settingsMarketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: ? Uh d can you change any of those at all ?Marketing: Audio .Industrial Designer: Audio , we have like your basic y your base , your mid-range , your highrange .User Interface: Um .Industrial Designer: Um .User Interface: {gap} the the balance hmm .Industrial Designer: Yep , left-right balance , um maybe even pre-programmed sound modes , like um the user coulddetermine like a series of sound modes ,Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: and then what could happen would be um when you click on that then it would go to that setting .Marketing: Mm-hmm .ProjectManager: Okay ,Marketing: Mm 'kay .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: is there anything else at all it can do ? That {disfmarker} 'cause that's that's fine . Just need to know so I can write it down . Okay umright I g I guess that's it , so we can now um {vocalsound} {disfmarker} We can now have a little look at the the Excel sheet and price listing , and see if we need to um if we need to rethink anything at all .UserInterface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: So um for this first part here power-wise , have we got battery ?Industrial Designer: The battery .Project Manager: Do we have kinetic as well ?Industrial Designer: No .ProjectManager: No . Okay ,Industrial Designer: Um .Project Manager: just battery .Industrial Designer: We need an {disfmarker}Project Manager: And that's because of cost restraints is it ?Industrial Designer: Yep .ProjectManager: OkayUser Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah advanced chip .Project Manager: um what about the electronics here ?Industrial Designer: We need an advanced chip I think , yep .Project Manager:Advanced chip .Industrial Designer: Let me just confirm that . Yes I think so . Yep .Project Manager: Okay um the case , what does it mean by single and double , do you know ?User Interface: Um I think single wouldjust be sort of one sort of oval whereas double is this sort of thing .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: So we want double-curved ?Industrial Designer: Yep .Project Manager: Okay . Um .Industrial Designer:Plastic .Project Manager: Is there any rubber at all in the buttons or anyIndustrial Designer: I think we're gonna have to skip the rubber .Project Manager: Okay ,Industrial Designer: Um .Project Manager: um and wewanted special colours didn't we ?Industrial Designer: Yep .Project Manager: So I'll have to put that {disfmarker} Oh no wait we {disfmarker} ho how many colours have we got there ?Industrial Designer: For the caseitself , one colour . It's one special colour .Project Manager: Just one colour , okay .Industrial Designer: 'Cause the case unit itself , the rest of our components go on top of it .Project Manager: Okay so interface-wise , isit this third option we have , the two of them there ?Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: Yes . One and the L_C_ display .Project Manager: Okay and then buttons , we have what , two colours ?Industrial Designer: Howmany {disfmarker}User Interface: Um we have um got some push buttons as well .Marketing: Or even clear .Industrial Designer: We've got push buttons as well .Project Manager: Like uh oh wait so push button andintegrated scroll wheel pushUser Interface: 'Kay .Project Manager: okay .User Interface: So I reckon we've got one button for this thing 'cause it's just one big sheet of rubber .Project Manager: Uh-huh .User Interface:I'm not sure if that counts but {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Okay let's just be safe and put like say four buttons for that one .Project Manager: Okay . Okay .Industrial Designer: Okay um and maybe a special colourfor the buttons , so maybe four again .Project Manager: Four .User Interface: You can see we're we're all very far beyond the {disfmarker}Project Manager: So w why are we arriving at the number four ? Where doesthe number four come from ?Industrial Designer: 'Cause that's one button by its the complexity of twelve buttons .Project Manager: Okay right ,Industrial Designer: So we're just estimating that yeah it would be less.Project Manager: so we're writing down four . {vocalsound} Okay . How about these ? Are we wanting them in {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: No .Project Manager: no they're just {disfmarker}Industrial Designer:Yep .Project Manager: is everything gonna be plastic ?Industrial Designer: Yep .Project Manager: Okay . So we're w w quite far over .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager:Now we're gonna {disfmarker} something's gonna have to go . Um we're at sixteen point eight and {disfmarker}Marketing: Uh how mm-hmm {disfmarker} how are we going to achieve this high-end product if{disfmarker}Project Manager: Well we h something has to go to the tune of two point t three Euro ,Marketing: We only have very sparse {disfmarker}Project Manager: so let me see , what are we {disfmarker} I mean{disfmarker}Marketing: Two point three ? Four point three no ?Project Manager: oh yes sorry , four point three . My maths is all out .User Interface: Well we could take out ones by making it single curved , just fill inthose bits .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: How much would that save us ?Marketing: And then where is the {disfmarker}Project Manager: How much would that save us ?Industrial Designer: That will onlysave you one .User Interface: That is one .Industrial Designer: The other thing could be that um you could take away the L_C_D_ panel and the advanced chip together ,Project Manager: One .Industrial Designer: umbecause when you do something on the T_V_ , the T_V_ responds and reacts as well ,Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: so the user could be looking at the T_V_ and pushing his thing so we may not need to{disfmarker}User Interface: That's fair enough , yeah .Industrial Designer: so when we scroll we need just some way to get the T_V_ to respond ,Marketing: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: which I think is atechnically doable thing so {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay so {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: So w what's our reviewed suggestion ?Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Um take away the L_C_ display ?Industrial Designer: Yep . And the advanced chip goes away as well .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: To be replaced with aIndustrial Designer:Regular chip .Project Manager: regular chip .Industrial Designer: Yep . So what that means is that um {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: {vocalsound} And so we've got pointthree to get rid of . Um and we ha where are the four {disfmarker} the four push buttons are where exactly now ?Industrial Designer: The twelve buttons that you see there {vocalsound} .Project Manager: Twelvebuttons .User Interface: That's um one piece of rubber but it's gonna have twelve button things underneath so {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Functionally you're gonna have to intercept{disfmarker} So four is a good estimate for {disfmarker}Project Manager: Do you think ?Industrial Designer: Yeah , so you can't actually cut {vocalsound} {disfmarker} It's like three times the number of buttons , four, eight , twelve .Project Manager: Like is is that one big button or is it twelve buttons ,Industrial Designer: It {disfmarker} It needs to be more than one big button because if you open up your phone , underneaththere's actually one button underneath , it's just that the panel itself is a single panel .Project Manager: how can it be something in between ?Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Mm . OkayMarketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: well we have point three to get rid of somewhere .Industrial Designer: We just report that it has to be over budget {vocalsound} ,Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:or the colours , you could take away s colours for th for the buttons .Project Manager: No can do .Marketing: Yeah we could just go with um {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah wIndustrial Designer: Normal colouredbuttons .Project Manager: Well do you want colour differentiation here ?Industrial Designer: No that's not the button we're talking about .User Interface: Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: That's {disfmarker}ProjectManager: Oh yeah sorry yeah then . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: the buttons only refer to the pad so {disfmarker}Project Manager: Right so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Should we take that off uh ?ProjectManager: Ah .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Hey it's back to the original .Project Manager: That's it .Marketing: Hmm .Industrial Designer: Um so then these just become normal coloured buttons , sothat might be some some way of cutting the cost .Marketing: Mm-hmm . Mm .Project Manager: Okay , ach that's a shame . {vocalsound} Um right , so take away that completely ? Ah . And now we're under budget .So we do have point five Euro to play with if we wanted .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} So I reckon {disfmarker}Project Manager: Um {disfmarker}Marketing: How about with embossing thelogo , isn't that going to cost us some money ?Project Manager: Doesn't say so . {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah . That's a freebie .User Interface: Reckon that probably counts as a special form for the buttons .IndustrialDesigner: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah that's a good idea . Just one ? Does that mean that one button has a special form or {disfmarker}User Interface: I think {gap} there's just one button soProject Manager: Yeahokay .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: handy {vocalsound} .Project Manager: Well well there we go . So I'm just gonna have to redraw this now . So we're not gonna have the L_C_D_ anymore , andwe'll just gonna have an on t on the T_V_ it'll show you what you're doing , which I think is fair enough , and so this is gonna be one big thing here . Um .Marketing: Was the goal in your in your prototype design that itbe as low profile as possible ?Industrial Designer: What do you mean by profile ?Marketing: {vocalsound} Sort of flat as possible .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: No .User Interface: You see I envision it asbeing um quite deepMarketing: Yeah .User Interface: sort of {vocalsound} deep enough to be comfy to hold in your hands rather than being wide and flat .Marketing: Yeah that's what I was thinking , toIndustrialDesigner: We didn't have enough Play-Doh to make it three D_ . {vocalsound}Marketing: Sure , okay . Yeah alright yeah fair enough .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay , just thought I'd ask .IndustrialDesigner: So there's one more dimension to the thing which we need to to add ,Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: and you might want to add in the report , length , width , and height .Project Manager: Rightokay .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: So just to well to be thorough then , width-wise we're looking at about what three centimetres or something ?Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay andthen so height-wise {disfmarker}Marketing: Hmm .Project Manager: How how tall do you envisage it being ? About that big ?Industrial Designer: Two .User Interface: Yeah it works , yeah .Project Manager: About twocentimetres , okay .Marketing: Two's not very high at all though .Industrial Designer: This is about this is about two .Marketing: Maybe a bit higher ?Industrial Designer: Slightly more than two , so{disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .User Interface: See , about that thick .Project Manager: Okay . Ach , that is {disfmarker}Marketing: Maybe closer to three even or two and a half .Industrial Designer: Okay.Project Manager: Yeah . Okay we'll s we'll say two point five . Okay um so we have it within cost anyway . Um so yeah project evaluation is this point . Um .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Right uh . Okay socan we close that ? This is what it's {disfmarker} the final spec that it's gonna be . Someone is gonna have to {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: yeah that's fine that's fine .Marketing: Um it's probablyjust {disfmarker} I dunno if it's worth getting into , but um just in in that we want this to be stylish , should we think a little bit more out of the box in terms of a button grid , because I've seen there's lots of devices outthere that that instead of taking your standard nine nine square grid , and they have it sort of stylized or in different concept that that {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I think that's something that's very hard to catch"}
{"doc_id":"doc_89","qid":"","text":"Professor D: OK . So , uh You can fill those out , uh {pause} after , actually , so So , I got , uh {pause} these results from , uh , Stephane . Also , um , I think that , uh {pause} um {pause} we might hear later today ,about other results . I think s that , uh , there were some other very good results that we 're gonna wanna compare to . But , {vocalsound} r our results from other {disfmarker} other places , yeah .PhD A: I I 'm sorry? I didn'tProfessor D: Um , I got this from youPhD A: Yeah .Professor D: and then I sent a note to Sunil about the {disfmarker} cuz he has been running some other systemsPhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor D: other thanthe {disfmarker} the ICSI OGI one .PhD A: Oh yeah .Professor D: So {pause} um , I wan wanna {disfmarker} wanna see what that is . But , uh , you know , so we 'll see what it is comparatively later . But {pause} itlooks like , umPhD A: M yeah .Professor D: You know most of the time , even {disfmarker} I mean even though it 's true that the overall number for Danish {disfmarker} we didn't improve it If you look at it individually, what it really says is that there 's , um , uh Looks like out of the six cases , between the different kinds of , uh , matching conditions {pause} out of the six cases , there 's basically , um , a couple where it stays aboutthe same , uh , three where it gets better , and one where it gets worse .PhD A: Yeah .Professor D: Uh , go ahead .PhD A: Y Actually , uh , um , for the Danish , there 's still some kind of mystery because , um , um ,when we use the straight features , we are not able to get these nice number with the ICSI OGI one , I mean . We don't have this ninety - three seventy - eight , we have eightPhD E: Eighty - nine forty - four .PhD A:yeah . Uh , so , uh , that 's probably something wrong with the features that we get from OGI . Uh , and Sunil is working on {disfmarker} on trying to {disfmarker} to check everything .Professor D: Oh , and{disfmarker} and we have a little time on that {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} actually soPhD A: Hmm ?Professor D: We have a little bit of time on that , actually .PhD A: Yeah .Professor D: We have a day or so , soWhen {disfmarker} when {disfmarker} when do you folks leave ?PhD A: Uh , Sunday .Professor D: Sunday ? So So , uh Yeah , until Saturday midnight , or something , we have W we {disfmarker} we have time , yeah. Well , that would be good . That 'd be good .PhD A: Yeah .Professor D: Yeah . Uh , and , you know , i u when whenever anybody figures it out they should also , for sure , email Hynek because Hynek will be over there{vocalsound} telling people {vocalsound} what we did , so he should know .PhD A: Mmm . Yeah .Professor D: Good , OK . So , um So , we 'll {disfmarker} we 'll hold off on that a little bit . I mean , even with theseresults as they are , it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's really not that bad . But {disfmarker} but , uh , um And it looks like the overall result as they are now , even without , you know , any {disfmarker} anybugs being fixed is that , uh , on the {disfmarker} the other tasks , we had this average of , uh , forty uh {disfmarker} nine percent , or so , improvement . And here we have somewhat better than that than the Danish, and somewhat worse than that on the German , but I mean , it sounds like , uh , one way or another , the methods that we 're doing can reduce the error rate from {disfmarker} from mel ceptrum {pause} down by ,you know {pause} a fourth of them to , uh , a half of them . Somewhere in there , depending on the {pause} exact case . So So that 's good . I mean , I think that , uh , one of the things that Hynek was talking aboutwas understanding what was in the other really good proposals and {disfmarker} and trying to see if what should ultimately be proposed is some , uh , combination of things . Um , if , uh {disfmarker} Cuz there 'sthings that they are doing {pause} there that we certainly are not doing . And there 's things that we 're doing that {pause} they 're not doing . And {disfmarker} and they all seem like good things .PhD A: Yeah.Professor D: SoPhD E: Mmm , yeah .PhD C: How much {disfmarker} how much better was the best system than ours ?Professor D: So Well , we don't know yet .PhD C: Mmm .Professor D: Uh , I mean , first place ,there 's still this thing to {disfmarker} to work out , and second place {disfmarker} second thing is that the only results that we have so far from before were really development set results .PhD C: Oh , OK .Professor D:So , I think in this community that 's of interest . It 's not like everything is being pinned on the evaluation set . But , um , for the development set , our best result was a little bit short of fifty percent . And the bestresult of any system was about fifty - four , where these numbers are the , uh , relative , uh , reduction in , uh , word error rate .PhD C: Oh , OK .Professor D: And , um , the other systems were , uh , somewhat lowerthan that . There was actually {disfmarker} there was much less of a huge range than there was in Aurora one . In Aurora one there were {disfmarker} there were systems that ba basically didn't improve things .PhDC: Hmm .Professor D: And here the {disfmarker} the worst system {pause} still reduced the error rate by thirty - three percent , or something , in development set .PhD C: Oh , wow .Professor D: So {disfmarker} so ,you know , sort of everybody is doing things between , well , roughly a third of the errors , and half the errors being eliminated , {vocalsound} uh , and varying on different test sets and so forth .PhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor D: So I think Um {pause} It 's probably a good time to look at what 's really going on and seeing if there 's a {disfmarker} there 's a way to combine the best ideas while at the same time not blowing up theamount of , uh , resources used , cuz that 's {disfmarker} that 's critical for this {disfmarker} this test .PhD C: Do we know anything about {disfmarker} who {disfmarker} who 's was it that had the lowest on the devset ?Professor D: Um , uh , the , uh , the there were two systems that were put forth by a combination of {disfmarker} of , uh , French Telecom and Alcatel . And , um they {disfmarker} they differed in some respects ,but they e em one was called the French Telecom Alcatel System the other was called the Alcatel French Telecom System , {vocalsound} uh , which is the biggest difference , I think . But {disfmarker} but there 're{disfmarker} there 're {disfmarker} there 're some other differences , too . Uh , and {disfmarker} and , uh , they both did very well ,PhD C: Uh - huh .Professor D: you know ? So , {vocalsound} um , my impression isthey also did very well on {disfmarker} on the {disfmarker} the , uh , evaluation set , but , um , I {disfmarker} I we haven't seen {disfmarker} you 've - you haven't seen any final results for thatPhD C: And they used{disfmarker} the main thing that {disfmarker} that they used was spectral subtraction ?Professor D: yeah .PhD C: OrProfessor D: There is a couple pieces to it . There 's a spectral subtraction style piece {disfmarker} itwas basically , you know , Wiener filtering . And then {disfmarker} then there was some p some modification of the cepstral parameters , where they {disfmarker}PhD A: Yeah , actually , something that 's close tocepstral mean subtraction . But , uh , the way the mean is adapted {disfmarker} um , it 's signal dependent . I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm , uh So , basically , the mean is adapted during speech and not during silence.Professor D: Yeah .PhD A: But it 's very close to {disfmarker} to cepstral mean subtraction .Professor D: But some people have done {vocalsound} {pause} exactly that sort of thing , of {disfmarker} of {disfmarker}and the {disfmarker} I mean it 's not {disfmarker} To {disfmarker} to look in {pause} speech only , to try to m to measure these things during speech ,PhD A: Yeah , yeah .Professor D: that 's p that 's not thatuncommon . But i it it {disfmarker} so it looks like they did some {disfmarker} some , uh , reasonable things , uh , and they 're not things that we did , precisely . We did unreasonable things , {vocalsound} which{disfmarker} because we like to try strange things , and {disfmarker} and , uh , and our things worked too .PhD C: Hmm .Professor D: And so , um , uh , it 's possible that some combination of these different thingsthat were done would be the best thing to do . But the only caveat to that is that everybody 's being real conscious of how much memory and how much CPU they 're usingPhD C: Mm - hmm .Professor D: because these, {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} uh , standards are supposed to go on cell phones with m moderate resources in both respects .PhD C: Did anybody , uh , do anything with the models as a {disfmarker} anexperiment ? OrProfessor D: Uh , they didn't report it , if they did .PhD C: N nobody reported it ?Professor D: Yeah . I think everybody was focused elsewhere . Um , now , one of the things that 's nice about what we didis , we do have a {disfmarker} a , uh {disfmarker} a filtering , which leads to a {disfmarker} a , uh {disfmarker} a reduction in the bandwidth in the modulation spectrum , which allows us to downsample . So , uh , asa result of that we have a reduced , um , transmission rate for the bits .PhD C: Mm - hmm .Professor D: That was misreported the first time out . It {disfmarker} it said the same amount because for convenience sakein the particular way that this is being tested , uh , they were repeating the packets . So it was {disfmarker} they were s they {disfmarker} they had twenty - four hundred bits per second , but they were literallycreating forty - eight hundred bits per second , {vocalsound} um , even though y it was just repeated .PhD C: Oh . Mm - hmm . Right .Professor D: So , uh , in practicePhD C: So you could 've had a repeat count inthere or something .Professor D: Well , n I mean , this was just a ph phoney thing just to {disfmarker} to fit into the {disfmarker} the software that was testing the errors {disfmarker} channel errors and so on .PhD C:Oh . Oh .Professor D: So {disfmarker} so in reality , if you put this {disfmarker} this system in into , uh , the field , it would be twenty - four hundred bits per second , not forty - eight hundred . So , um , so that 's anice feature of what {disfmarker} what we did . Um , but , um , well , we still have to see how it all comes out .PhD C: Hmm .Professor D: Um , and then there 's the whole standards process , which is another thingaltogether .PhD C: When is the development set {disfmarker} I mean , the , uh , uh , test set results due ? Like the day before you leave or something ?Professor D: Uh , probably the day after they leave , but we 'llhave to {disfmarker} {vocalsound} we 'll have to stop it the day before {comment} we leave .PhD A: Yeah , yeah . SoPhD C: Huh .Professor D: I think tha I think the {disfmarker} the meeting is on the thirteenth orsomething .PhD A: Yeah , this Tuesday , yeah .Professor D: And , uh , they , uh Right . And the {disfmarker} the , uh , results are due like the day before the meeting or something . SoPhD A: Yeah , probably ,wellProfessor D: I th I think {disfmarker} I I think they are ,PhD A: Yeah , wellProfessor D: yeah . So {pause} {vocalsound} um , since we have a bit farther to travel than {vocalsound} some of the others ,{vocalsound} uh , we 'll have to get done a little quicker . But , um , I mean , it 's just tracing down these bugs . I mean , just exactly this sort of thing of , you know , why {disfmarker} why these features seem to bebehaving differently , uh , in California than in Oregon .PhD C:  Hmm .Professor D: Might have something to do with electricity shortage . Uh , we didn't {disfmarker} we didn't have enough electrons here and Uh , but ,um Uh , I think , you know , the main reason for having {disfmarker} I mean , it only takes w to run the {disfmarker} the two test sets in {disfmarker} just in computer time is just a day or so , right ?PhD A: Yeah,Professor D: SoPhD A: it 's very short interval .Professor D: yeah . So , I think the who the whole reason for having as long as we have , which was {pause} like a week and a half , is {disfmarker} is because of bugslike that . So Huh So , we 're gonna end up with these same kind of sheets that have the {pause} the percentages and so on just for the {disfmarker}PhD A: Yeah , so there are two more columns in the sheets,Professor D: Oh , I guess it 's the same sheets ,PhD A: two . Yeah , it 's the same sheets ,Professor D: yeah , yeah {disfmarker}PhD A: yeah .Professor D: just with the missing columns filled in .PhD A: Yeah .ProfessorD: Yeah . Well , that 'll be good . So , I 'll dis I 'll disregard these numbers . That 's {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} that 's good .PhD A: So , Hynek will try to push for trying to combine , uh , different things ? OrHmm ?Professor D: Uh , well that 's {pause} um yeah I mean , I think the question is \" Is there {disfmarker} is there some advantage ? \" I mean , you could just take the best system and say that 's the standard . Butthe thing is that if different systems are getting at good things , um , a again within the constraint of the resources , if there 's something simple that you can do Now for instance , uh , it 's , I think , very reasonable tohave a standard for the terminal 's side and then for the server 's side say , \" Here 's a number of things that could be done . \" So , um , everything that we did could probably just be added on to what Alcatel did , and iit 'd probably work pretty well with them , too . So , um , uh , that 's one {disfmarker} one aspect of it . And then on the terminal 's side , I don't know how much , um , memory and {disfmarker} and CPU it takes , butit seems like the filtering {pause} Uh , I mean , the VAD stuff they both had , right ? And , um , so {disfmarker} and they both had some kind of on - line normalization , right ?PhD A: Uh , yeah .Professor D: Of sorts ,yeah ? So {disfmarker} so , it seems like the main different there is the {disfmarker} is the , uh , filtering . And the filtering {disfmarker} I think if you can {disfmarker} shouldn't take a lot of memory to do that Uh ,and I also wouldn't think the CPU , uh , would be much either for that part . So , if you can {disfmarker} if you can add those in {pause} um {pause} then , uh , you can cut the data rate in half .PhD A: Yeah .ProfessorD: So it seems like the right thing to do is to {disfmarker} on the {disfmarker} on the terminal 's side , take what they did , if it {disfmarker} if it does seem to generalize well to German and Danish , uh , take whatthey did add in a filter , and add in some stuff on the server 's side and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and that 's probably a reasonable standard . Um {pause} UhPhD A: They are working on this already ? Because{disfmarker} yeah , Su - Sunil told me that he was trying already to put some kind of , uh , filtering in the {vocalsound} {pause} France Telecom .Professor D: Yeah , so that 's {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} that 'swhat That would be ideal {disfmarker} would be is that they could , you know , they could actually show that , in fact , a combination of some sort , {vocalsound} uh , would work even better than what {disfmarker}what any of the systems had . And , um , then it would {disfmarker} it would , uh {pause} be something to {disfmarker} to discuss in the meeting . But , uh , not clear what will go on . Um , I mean , on the one hand ,um , sometimes people are just anxious to get a standard out there . I mean , you can always have another standard after that , but {vocalsound} this process has gone on for a while on {disfmarker} already and{disfmarker} and people might just wanna pick something and say , \" OK , this is it . \" And then , that 's a standard . Uh , standards are always optional . It 's just that , uh , if you disobey them , then you risk not beingable to sell your product , or {pause} {vocalsound} Uh {pause} um And people often work on new standards while an old standard is in place and so on . So it 's not final even if they declared a standard . The otherhand , they might just say they just don't know enough yet to {disfmarker} to declare a standard . So you {disfmarker} you {disfmarker} you will be {disfmarker} you will become experts on this and know more{disfmarker} far more than me about the tha this particular standards process once you {disfmarker} you go to this meeting . So , be interested in hearing . So , uh , I 'd be , uh , interested in hearing , uh , yourthoughts now I mean you 're almost done . I mean , you 're done in the sense that , um , you may be able to get some new features from Sunil , and we 'll re - run it . Uh , but other than that , you 're {disfmarker} you're basically done , right ? So , uh , I 'm interested in hearing {disfmarker} hearing your thoughts about {pause} where you think we should go from this .PhD A: Yeah .Professor D: I mean , we tried a lot of things in ahurry , and , uh , if we can back off from this now and sort of take our time with something , and not have doing things quickly be quite so much the constraint , what {disfmarker} what you think would be the bestthing to do .PhD A: Uh , well Hmm Well , first , uh , to really have a look at {disfmarker} at the speech {pause} {vocalsound} from these databases because , well , we tried several thing , but we did not really look{vocalsound} at what what 's happening , and {vocalsound} where is the noise , andProfessor D: OK .PhD A: EhProfessor D: It 's a novel idea . Look at the data . OK .PhD A: Yeah .Professor D: Or more generally , Iguess , what {disfmarker} what is causing the degradation .PhD A: Yeah , yeah . Actually , there is one thing that {disfmarker} well {pause} Um , generally we {disfmarker} we think that {vocalsound} most of theerrors are within phoneme classes , and so I think it could be interesting to {disfmarker} to see if it {disfmarker} I don't think it 's still true when we add noise , and {vocalsound} so we have {disfmarker} I{disfmarker} I guess the confusion ma the confusion matrices are very different when {disfmarker} when we have noise , and when it 's clean speech . And probably , there is much more {pause} between classeserrors for noisy speech .Professor D: Mm - hmm .PhD A: And {vocalsound} so , um Yeah , so perhaps we could have a {disfmarker} a large gain , eh , just by looking at improving the , uh , recognition , not ofphonemes , but of phoneme classes , simply .Professor D: Mm - hmm .PhD A: And {vocalsound} which is a s a s a simpler problem , perhaps , but {disfmarker} which is perhaps important for noisy speech .Professor D:The other thing that strikes me , just looking at these numbers is , just taking the best cases , I mean , some of these , of course , even with all of our {disfmarker} our wonderful processing , still are horrible kinds ofnumbers . But just take the best case , the well - matched {pause} uh , German case after {disfmarker} er well - matched Danish after we {disfmarker}PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor D: the kind of numbers we 'regetting are about eight or nine {pause} uh {pause} p percent {pause} error {pause} per digit .PhD A: Mm - hmm . Yeah .Professor D: This is obviously not usable ,PhD A: No .Professor D: right ?PhD A: Sure .ProfessorD: I mean , if you have ten digits for a phone number {comment} I mean , every now and then you 'll get it right . I mean , it 's {disfmarker} it 's , uh , {vocalsound} um So , I mean , the other thing is that , uh{disfmarker} And {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} a and {disfmarker} and also , um {pause} part of what 's nice about this is that this is , uh , {vocalsound} um {pause} a realistic {disfmarker} almost realisticdatabase . I mean , it 's still not people who are really trying to accomplish something , but {disfmarker} but , uh , within the artificial setup , it isn't noise artificially added , you know , simulated , uh , additive noise.PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor D: It 's real noise condition . And , um , {vocalsound} the {disfmarker} the training {disfmarker} the training , I guess , is always done on the close talkingPhD A: No , actually{disfmarker} actually the well - matched condition {pause} is {pause} still quite di still quite difficult .Professor D: No ?PhD A: I mean , it 's {disfmarker} they have all these data from the close mike and from thedistant mike , {vocalsound} from different driving condition , open window , closed window ,Professor D: Yeah .PhD A: and they take all of this and they take seventy percent , I think , for training and thirty percent fortesting .PhD E: Mm - hmm .PhD A: So , training is done {vocalsound} on different conditions and different microphones , and testing also is done {pause} on different microphone and conditions . So , probably if weonly take the close microphones , {vocalsound} I guess the results should be much much better than this .Professor D: I see .PhD A: Mmm .Professor D: Oh , OK ,PhD A: UhProfessor D: that explains it partially . Wha -what about i in {disfmarker} so the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker}PhD A: Yeah , so {disfmarker} there is this , the mismatched is , um {pause} the same kind of thing ,Professor D: go ahead .PhD A: but {pause} the"}
{"doc_id":"doc_90","qid":"","text":"User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: So I see all everybody's here , 'kay .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Yep .Project Manager: And we can start meeting .User Interface: Okay {vocalsound} .Marketing:What's the agenda for this meeting ?Project Manager: The {disfmarker} I will uh present here agenda with with with with slides to you .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Um as you can see here .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Perfect .Project Manager: So first uh just to mention I will take notes uh of this meetingMarketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: and uh I will try to workthem out and give them to you . I've also made notes of the previous meeting and um I was about to send them you but {vocalsound} then uh I had to go to this uh meeting so you will get them too uhMarketing:Mm-hmm .User Interface: Next .Project Manager: Um .Industrial Designer: So y you are the secretary also .Project Manager: Yes . Indeed .Industrial Designer: Right ? Okay .Project Manager: Then I hope you all haveuh worked out {vocalsound} some some uh {vocalsound} some some presentations about uh about well you the the task given to you in the previous meeting .Industrial Designer: Perfectly yeah yeah of course uh-huh.User Interface: {gap}Project Manager: Um . W We will uh in a minute we will uh {vocalsound} start with them . Um , we will see in which order we will handle them of . Um then I will uh bring in some some some newrequirements I I got uh from the uh account manager , I try to work them out , they were quite abstract , and we can have maybe have com some discussion about it . Uh Um about the functionsMarketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: and {disfmarker} Well in this meeting we should really {vocalsound} try to reach a decision about the target group and the functionality of the {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: Youmean the social target group who we wants to target ?Project Manager: Yes I mean well yes w who are we going to uh to well to sell this ,Marketing: Mm .User Interface: {gap}Industrial Designer: Oh the customers ,okay .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: the customers , indeed yes . Think that's that's important matter .Marketing: That's the big question yeah .Project Manager: Uh . {vocalsound} So {vocalsound} And then uh wewill close this meeting uhUser Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: and after this meeting we'll uh we'll have a lunch . Good . Um . Maybe um why uh Anna can you c do you have a presentations ?Marketing: No , Idon't .Project Manager: You don't have presentation ?Marketing: I wasn't . No .Project Manager: Uh you want a table to to uhMarketing: I c I can talk about it but I have no slides or anything .Project Manager: Yes yesmaybe maybe you can uh can just talk about it or maybe you can use the whiteboard if necessary um .Marketing: Mm-hmm . Well I've just been um presented with some research we've done in a small focus group so ,a hundred people , just asked them about their remote control usage habits and what they want in a remote control . Um . It's {disfmarker} probably can't email this to you , I've just got a web page with some data onit . Um basically it's saying that users generally dislike the look and feel of their remote controls . Um seventy five u seventy five percent of users find most remote controls ugly . Um .Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Eighty percent of users would spend more money when a remote control would look fancy . Um . Current remote controls do not match well the operating behaviour of the user . Uh seventy five percent ofusers said they zap a lot , so they use their remote control quite frequently while they're watching television . Uh . Fifty percent of users say that they only use ten percent of the buttons , so they've got a remote controlwith a lot of functionality but really most of the time they only use a small part of that .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: Um .Project Manager: Do you Do you have this uh information on the web page you said?Marketing: I have an a web page yes .Project Manager: Yes , mayb maybe you can can send an email to me later uh . Uh about this .Marketing: Yep . Yep , sure . Mm-hmm . So basically um there's a breakdown ofhow much they use the different functions on a rem remote control . Um , power and volume selection are only used a few times within this uh per hour . Um , channel selection is used a hundred and sixty eight timesum {vocalsound} and then there's things like channel settings , audio settings , which are only used very infrequently .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: Um . Teletext is used um fourteen times in the hour , so it isused but not nearly as much as the channel selection is used . Um .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: An interesting thing that this report has brought up is that um fifty fifty percent of users report that the remotecontrol gets lost a lot of the time in the room , so some way of some way of locating the remote control would be very useful to a lot of users . Um .Project Manager: Yes yes , I have {vocalsound} that too {vocalsound}.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Thirty four percent said it takes too long to learn to use a remote control , they want something that's easier to use straight away , more intuitive perhaps .ProjectManager: Mm .Marketing: Um .Industrial Designer: It's it's easy to learn or how do you say it's {disfmarker}Marketing: Thirty four percent said it took too much time to learn to use a new one . Yep .Industrial Designer:Okay too much time to learn . Okay .Marketing: Um . And thirty {disfmarker} twenty six percent said remote controls are bad for R_S_I_ .Industrial Designer: Not enough {gap}Marketing: I don't know how we'd goabout combating that .User Interface: {gap} . What do you mean there ?Marketing: For R_S_I_ ? Respet Repetitive strain injury .User Interface: Okay .Marketing: So . But {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm . Theythink that or do their doctor the doctor says ?Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: {vocalsound} But it's it's the opinion of the uh of the users huh ?Marketing: Yeah . That's what the report says yeah .Project Manager: Somm .Marketing: Um and then it's got a demographic breakdown on {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Maybe y y you cannot put this webpage online on the {disfmarker}Marketing: Uh I should be able to actually , if Iemail it to you now .User Interface: You can disconnect it thereProject Manager: {vocalsound} You can maybe just just {disfmarker}User Interface: no ?Marketing: Oh no , yeah .Industrial Designer: Ah it's{vocalsound} it okay it's a webpage on the C_ it's a fileMarketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: okay .Marketing: Um , s hang on .Industrial Designer: O otherwise you yeah . You can connect this one .Project Manager:{gap}User Interface: Then you can connect this one or this one yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: All to your computer .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Well .Industrial Designer: So these areimportant numbers that Matthew and I need to take into account for our functional um {disfmarker}User Interface: Oh yeah .Project Manager: {gap}Marketing: Oh I need to muck around with this . It's probably easierif you put it on yours and then I'll just email it to you . It's just a web link .Project Manager: Hmm .Industrial Designer: Yeah {gap}User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: Yeah these numbers have have to be haveto be taken into account for the uh both yeah user interface and functional design .User Interface: Hmm . {vocalsound} Yeah .Marketing: One thing it goes on to talk about , which is interesting , is the {disfmarker}hang on a minute .Industrial Designer: Because if there are many numbers and we need to select to to constraint uh our design based on what is more important .Marketing: Mm-hmm . Yep .Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Um , one thing is interesting is talking about um speech recognition in a remote control .Industrial Designer: Speech recognition in {disfmarker}Marketing: And who would pay more for that and whetherpeople would find it useful .Project Manager: D do you have numbers o o on that ?Industrial Designer: Ah okay .Marketing: Yes , I'll just get this up .Industrial Designer: So that we don't {disfmarker} Do we not needany button on the remote control {vocalsound}Marketing: Well potentially yeah , um {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: it would be all based on speech.Marketing: I think even for interestiIndustrial Designer: Okay . Interesting idea .Marketing: yeah I think that would not work so well . You wanna have both options .Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: Well itwould it would be a solution for uh when your remote control is lost ,Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: I mean when it has speech recognition then uh i then it doesn't matter where it is , my {disfmarker} well it's{disfmarker} we should be in range ,Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: or maybe it can respond and produce sound , so say where it is . But the these are all quite fancy featuresIndustrialDesigner: Yeah .Project Manager: I'm not sure whether we will we can make this for {vocalsound} for twelve Euro fi and fifty cents {vocalsound} .User Interface: Well it would be fMarketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer:Yeah .User Interface: No you can't .Industrial Designer: And we don't know where the state of the art of speech recognition is , maybe you know ?User Interface: Oh . Well , {vocalsound} it depends you know like thereis uh it's a very small vocabulary that you want to do the operations like you want to say on , off , one , two , twenty three ,Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: But it's quite noisy if there is the T_V_ uh shouting.Marketing: Mm .User Interface: yeah .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Yes ,User Interface: It's it's going to be liProject Manager: that that that that's mm .User Interface: it's not going to be s so easy but u usuallyit's going to be more of an isolated caseProject Manager: Do you have some more important factsUser Interface: but it's {disfmarker} but I don't know with twenty fiMarketing: Um {disfmarker}Project Manager: or canwe go to the next presentation ?Industrial Designer: Okay . SoMarketing: Well {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: you had to to to summarise maybe the {disfmarker}Marketing: This is now talking about um who wouldpay for speech recognition in a remote control , who would pay more for it , um . Ninety percent of the fifteen to twenty five year old market said that they would pay more , it goes down from there , seventy six percentfor twenty five to thirty five , thirty five percent for thirty five to forty five , um twenty two percent for forty five to fifty five and then eight percent for fifty five to sixty five .Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: Okayit's uh decline .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: Okay .Marketing: But we shProject Manager: Mm-hmm . Decline with age , mm .Marketing: Yeah , it really depends where we're gonna be targeting this product , um,User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm . {vocalsound}Marketing: which we'll be talking about later I think .Industrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: Yes . We will talk about it later .{vocalsound}Marketing: Did you get the email ?Project Manager: Okay . {vocalsound}Marketing: Yep , that one .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Just follow that link .Industrial Designer: {gap} I thi{vocalsound} You usMarketing: It'll be in a different window , yep .Industrial Designer: yeah yeah .Marketing: That's {disfmarker} left {disfmarker} that one .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yep .IndustrialDesigner: Okay perfect . .. .Marketing: Mm . So that's the figure that I was just talking about there , with the different demographics .User Interface: Okay .Marketing: Another thing it's talking about there is theL_C_D_ screen but there's no figures apparently on that .Project Manager: Mm . Okay . {vocalsound} umIndustrial Designer: Mm 'kay .Project Manager: Uh maybe uh Mael c c can you give uh uh your presentation uh?Industrial Designer: Yeah . Mm I okayProject Manager: Oh ,Industrial Designer: I stay {disfmarker}Project Manager: this is {disfmarker}User Interface: Now you can move I think yeah .Project Manager: Mm-hmm , yy you can move , uh .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I can move as far as {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Maybe I take your chair ?Project Manager: Yes . You can you can sa take my chair .Industrial Designer: I okay{vocalsound} .User Interface: It's a channel selection , a module {gap} , this and this function ,Marketing: Sorry ? Oh .User Interface: go to the {gap} . Yeah .Industrial Designer: So I think as everybody knows uh I'mthe uh Industrial Designer . And uh in this presentation uh this group presentation um {vocalsound} is gonna focus on the working design of the the remote control . Um I'd like first to give a quick a very simpleintroduction , how does it work , so that everybody knows even if you don't have a very uh technical background uh what is it because I think in the product it is important .Marketing: Mm . {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: So basically um the basic function of a remote control is to send uh messages to another system that is fixed .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: And so an energy source feeds an integrated circuit ,the chip , that can compose messages , usually uh through a um infrared bitMarketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: and uh the user interface controls the chip and accordingly the the messages , alright . So mymethod for um designing the yeah the work design uh yeah first {vocalsound} the the main point is that I would wish to to make a really functional product . I would prefer to have very functional um capabilities ratherthan fancy stuff that in fact is not used and doesn't work .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: So for that yeah as it's important to take into account the user requirements from theMarketing uh Expert uh AnnaMarketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: and um w to to we should agree on what are the technical functions uh for this remote control and I show you the the working design . So umbasically uh here is a really large view of what we want {vocalsound} . Uh we want an on off button , it can be uh {disfmarker} it's simple but it's it's important , and also uh {gap} the to both channels as well as otherbuttons that come after ,Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: right . So the components I quickly draw here , is that in this part you have the remote control the the sender and on the other part the receiver so that's{disfmarker} my method is um will be to well my aim would be to uh design the and choose the chips and the infrared um components to build the remote controlMarketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: right .ProjectManager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: So of course we need energy sources and uh uh the receiver a a receiver . This is {vocalsound} very quick uh design , uh you stop me or interrupt me if uh you don't agree on iton that .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: And um so what I have found and {vocalsound} after a lot of work actually I {vocalsound} I draw this I draw for you this uh schemaMarketing: {vocalsound}Well . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh-huh .Industrial Designer: that can be maybe too technical for you but is very important for meMarketing: You drew it a long time ago ?Industrial Designer: you know .ProjectManager: Is huhMarketing: Ninety one . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} And uh that's it so I won't go into details about thatProject Manager: overwhelming {vocalsound}.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: No .Industrial Designer: but uh these are my preferences to use uh that kind of components .Project Manager: {vocalsound} And and why do you want these kind ofcomponent ?Industrial Designer: So . SoProject Manager: I mean , are they cheap , or are they uh reliable ? What were your {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: found and yeah th you have always a compromise with uhreliability and uh i if it's expensive ,Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: but uh this one was not this one also really uh reliable um so yeah that's it for the working design , uh I hope you get clearer view on uhwhat what a remote control is uh in terms of uh technical componentsProject Manager: Yes . It it it's more clear now I think .Industrial Designer: but maybe yeah {disfmarker}Project Manager: So {vocalsound}{disfmarker}User Interface: But is it uh can you just buy it on the market and f plug it in or you want to maIndustrial Designer: No no no no we we will uh {disfmarker} This is a preference but we can always change uh{disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm-hmm . What I w what I was thinking about uh the the the schema uh about uh the sender and the receiver , I mean can you can you get back to it ?Industrial Designer: Yeah .ProjectManager: {vocalsound} Yeah uh , the receiver is of course already in the television and we are not uh able to change it . So we we must adapt to the to the receiver .Industrial Designer: Of course yeah .ProjectManager: I I suppose there is a standard uh way of communicating to televisions uh .Industrial Designer: Yeah . We will use uh {vocalsound} infrared protocol uh using {vocalsound} yeah infrared and uh and of coursewe need to adapt to that protocol that already existsProject Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: and but we what we can do is uh uh adapting {vocalsound} the the chips inside uh to the best uh chips and uhinfrared bubbles .Project Manager: Mm . Mm . Mm . Mm . Yes . Okay .Industrial Designer: Um . Okay . {gap}Project Manager: Thank you .User Interface: Well it to du it's just you had to change the frequencies.Industrial Designer: The frequencies ?User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah yeah . Of course yeahUser Interface: {vocalsound} But you should be careful ,Industrial Designer: in the chip you have it yeah.User Interface: people are sometime becoming problem , like a guy has recently designed a remote uh uh uh which could switch off any other T_V_s {vocalsound} , so basically {gap} through all the things .IndustrialDesigner: That can control o other things . Yeah .Marketing: Ah .Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: So maybe we should think of {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Of course yeah we shouldtake that into accountMarketing: That's handy .Project Manager: Yeah yesMarketing: So if the b T_V_ in the next apartment's really loud , you can just turn it off .Project Manager: I I I {disfmarker}User Interface: yeah.Industrial Designer: in the uh {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah so you can just go on the street and then switch off everyone's T_V_ {vocalsound} and you can just walk away {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}User Interface: You don't have to be near the T_V_ at all {vocalsound} .Marketing: Yeah . I like that idea .Project Manager: I I feel I I I think M Mael will will consider this uh th these things .UserInterface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Maybe Maybe we can go to to your presentation uh Matthew .User Interface: YeahProject Manager: I I I assume you were finished here .User Interface: so {vocalsound}.Industrial Designer: Yes .Project Manager: Uh okay .User Interface: Okay . {vocalsound} So I can take I think mine now there .Industrial Designer: Okay .User Interface: Okay so voila .Marketing: {vocalsound}UserInterface: Hmm I can take mine it's okay , voila , mm so mm . Okay .Project Manager: Oh . I {disfmarker} Uh , sorry ? I know where it is .User Interface: It's on the desktop .Project Manager: It's uh {disfmarker}UserInterface: Technical function .Project Manager: Yes .User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: It's uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Like so .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Well . So um I'm going to talk alittle bit about the technical function so wha what actually it's about what is the user going to do , I think my last presented what is going inside ,Marketing: Mm-hmm . Yep .User Interface: so what's the user is going tosee from the outside and how he is going to use it . So well the approach is that uh basically the idea is to send a message to the T_V_ set , as Mael has pointed , and it will be decoded by the T_V_ and usually we it iseasier to have uh keys or buttons with which people can uh press and then um changing a button will basically uh change the message which is being sent to the T_V_ and uh {vocalsound} umIndustrial Designer:Mm-hmm .User Interface: a and basically it sends an internal signal and decoded by the receiver . So p as um Anna has said that this ki people are interested in things which are you don't need to k press the keys ,people are can have a speech recognition but this is uh s a question which will we have to see later .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: But in the present scenario is that you have certain keys and you press it"}
{"doc_id":"doc_91","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Yep . Soon as I get this . Okay . This is our last meeting . Um I'll go ahead and go through the minutes from the previous meeting . Uh and then we'll have a , the prototype presentation . {vocalsound}Um then we will um do an evaluation . Uh or we'll see what , what we need to have under the criteria for the evaluation . Then we'll go through the finance and see if we fall within the budget . Um then we'll do theevaluation , and then we can finish up after that with um any changes that we'll need to make , or hopefully everything will fall right in line . Um let's see , minutes from the last meeting . Um we looked at uh the thetrends . We had uh the fashion trends that people want a fancy look-and-feel . It was twice as important as anything else . Um they liked fruit and vegetables in the new styles . Um and a spongy feel . So we weretalking about trying to incorporate those into our prototype . Um they wanted limited buttons and simplicity . Um then we looked at the uh the method for coming up with our own remote . Um looking at other otherdevices . Um the iPod , we really liked the look of that . Um we also had uh the kid's remote for a simple idea . Um a two part remote , which was what were were originally looking at . Uh and then um there was talk ofspee uh speech recognition um becoming more uh predominant and easier to use . But I think we've still decided not to go with that . {vocalsound} Then we looked at the components um the materials for the case , thedifferent energy sources , the different types of chips , um and made a decision on what we were going to use to make our remote . Um and basically how , what were making for the prototype . So I'm going to leave itat that and let you guys take over .User Interface: The prototype discussion .Project Manager: The prototype yeah . Do you need a {disfmarker} this ?User Interface: No . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound} Can try to plug that in thereUser Interface: There is our remo {gap} the banana .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: but {disfmarker}User Interface: Um {vocalsound} yeah basicallywe we st went with the colour yellow . Um working on the principle of a fruit which was mentioned , it's basically designed around a banana .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Um but it would be held insuch a fashion ,Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: where it is , obviously it wouldn't be that floppy 'cause this would be hard plastic . These would be like the rubber , the rubber grips . So that's so that wouldhopefully help with grip , or like the ergonomics of it . Um but all the controlling would be done with this scroll wheel . You have to use your imagination a little bit . And this here represents the screen , where you ,where you'd go through .Project Manager: Very nice .User Interface: And the the simplest functions would be um almost identical to an iPod , where that one way ch through channels , that way th other way throughchannels . Volume up and down . And then to access the more complicated functions you'd you sorta go , you press that and go through the menus . It's that that simple . That just represents the infrared uh beam .That's a simple on and off switch . Um I don't know , we could use the voice . T that blue bits should be yellow , that that'd be where the batteries would be I suppose . And um {vocalsound} that's about it . It's assimple as you , we could make it really .Industrial Designer: Right .User Interface: Is there anything you want to add ?Industrial Designer: That's what we have there . That's plastic . Plastic covered with rubber . Wemight uh add some more underneath here . Maybe give it , give it a form . I mean you're supposed to hold it like that , but um just if you grab it , take it from somewhere ,User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager:Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: so {disfmarker} yeah ,User Interface: Doesn't make much make much difference .Industrial Designer: you have some rub yeah .User Interface: You could work left-handed orright-handed I suppose .Industrial Designer: Exactly , {gap} use both . Might as well think about {disfmarker}User Interface: T the actual thing might be smaller .Industrial Designer: Th think about the button as well .Like either put either one {gap} one on either side orUser Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: What but what's that button ?Industrial Designer: not do it at all . It's a quick on-off button .User Interface:Just the on and off .Project Manager: Uh , 'kay .Industrial Designer: That's umMarketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: yeah I think it's pretty important . So you don't have to fiddle with that .Project Manager: 'Kay.Industrial Designer: Right ? Um that's not um {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I'd say a bit smaller would probably be nice . You wanna play with that over there .User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: There you go .User Interface: It's you know it's flimsy 'cause it's made out of heavy Play-Doh ,Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Would you like to uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer:Right .User Interface: but {disfmarker}Marketing: Pretty impressive .Project Manager: Well done .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Kind of a banana .User Interface: And whether or not it wouldfall into the cost {gap} everything I suppose . With the scroll and the L_C_D_ .Project Manager: Well luckily we are going to find out . Or not luckily . Um do you have a marketing presentation for us .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I do . Okay . You guys are gonna help me do an evaluation of the criteria . Um . Okay . So first I'll just discuss some of the criteria that I found . Just based on the pasttrend reports that I was looking at earlier . And then we'll do a group evaluation of the prototype . And then we will calculate the average score to see how we did . Um so the criteria we're gonna be looking at are thecomplaints um that we heard from the users who were interviewed earlier . So we're gonna be doing it based on a seven point scale . And one is going to mean true , that we did actually achieve that . With seven beingfalse , we did not achieve that . {gap} . Okay . So for the first one , we need to decide , did we solved the problem of the users who complained about an ugly remote ? {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}{vocalsound} .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I think it's definitely different than anything else out there .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: So if theythink that what is out there is ugly , then yes I would say , I would say most definitely .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: I would {gap} .Project Manager: It's bright .User Interface: It's bright . It's{disfmarker}Project Manager: It still has your traditional black .User Interface: It's curved . It's not {disfmarker} there's no sharpIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: angles to it .Project Manager: Yep ,not angular .Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: I'd say , when it comes to the ergonomics , the form and stuff , yes that's definitely more beautiful than your average .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:However the colour , we don't have a say in that .Marketing: Yeah I think the colours detract a little bit . {vocalsound}User Interface: Some people might say it . Yeah .Industrial Designer: That has been , that has beendictated pretty much by the company .Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: So uh to answer that honestly I would rather say like uh , we have not solved the problem completely with the ugly remote because thecolour is ugly , definitely .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yep .Marketing: That's true . Yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: 'S nothing you can say about that . I mean I muchprefer something like brushed chrome with that form .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: But {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah something more modern to go {disfmarker} a a modern colour to go with themodern form .Industrial Designer: Right . Right . It's different . You don't want your uh three feet huge L_C_D_ dis display in your living room that's hanging from the wall to be controlled with something like that.Marketing: Um okay so , do you think , since we {disfmarker} This was a a sign criteria , do you think maybe we should put it somewhere in the middle then ?Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Does that soundgood ?Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: What do you think ? Three ? Four ?Project Manager: I would sayMarketing: Five ?Project Manager: four .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Four is fair . Okay .Project Manager: Very non-committal , four .Marketing: Okay , the second one . Did we make it simple for new users?Industrial Designer: It's very intuitive , I think yeah .User Interface: Yeah . I think that was the main aim , one of the main aims that we had .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} S give it a one .Marketing: One ,ProjectManager: Yeah .Marketing: 'kay . Okay . Um , do the controls now match the operating behaviour of the users ?User Interface: Uh yeah . 'Cause we've we've brought it down to basically four controls {gap} mostcommon , which are channel and volume .Marketing: I'd say that {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Right .User Interface: And then the other ones are just a matter of just going , justscrolling further .Project Manager: S scrolling through and selecting a few .Industrial Designer: Right . So that's a one .Marketing: So one ?Project Manager: I think that's a one .Marketing: Yeah ? {vocalsound} Okay .Okay um the fourth one . How about the problem of a remote being easily lost ? One of the number one complaints .Industrial Designer: Something that big and that yellow you just don't lose anymore .ProjectManager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound} Whether you want to or not , you're not gonna lose it . {vocalsound}User Interface: It's bright yellow .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}User Interface: Bright yellow's hard to lose . But um if we were to , if we were , that , the speech recognition . That , we could maybe just use that solely for the the finding thing . That was what we'd we'dmentioned .Project Manager: So if we incorporate speech recognition into it then it could {disfmarker}User Interface: Just just to use , to find it when it was lost . But like I said , like I don't think you'd lose somethingso yellow so easily .Industrial Designer: Oops . Hmm .User Interface: And it's not gonna fall , like a rectangle would slip down behind things . That's gonna be a difficult shape to {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Wellwhat {disfmarker}Project Manager: And it is quite bright and {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Maybe in the middle again , three or four or something ?Project Manager: Uh{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: SMarketing: Okay .User Interface: I mean you know {gap} loo losing things is one of those things that people can lose , I mean a million ways .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface:You can pick it up and walk away with it and then you've lost it .Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: That's true .Project Manager: But if we do go with the , with the speech recognition , then it , then our scale goes upquite a bit I think .Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: Oh yeah . You probably {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Probably two . You know . If we eliminate the fact that you know it's impossible toguarantee that it's not gonna be lost thenUser Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: I'd say two .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: With the speechrecognition , which of course may be changed depending on budget .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Y you could add an extra feature actually . Which makes this thing raise hell when you remove it too farfrom the television .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: We could add that but that's nothing we have thought of so far .Project Manager: Which , which may be cheaper than speech recognition if it were just a{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yes .User Interface: Yeah true . But I mean d just those whistling , clapping key rings you have . They're cheap .Marketing: Annoying alarm or something ?Project Manager:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: It's it's {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: So it can't be thatIndustrial Designer: Um the {disfmarker} it's based on this anti anti-theft technology for suitcases and stuff,User Interface: expensive .Project Manager: Some sort of proximity {vocalsound} {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: where you have one piece that's attached to your luggage , another piece thatstarts beeping . That can't cost much .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: So that can also easily be integrated because these things are small enough to to hide , so you have one piece , you have to gluesomewhere behind your {disfmarker} stick it behind your T_V_ and the other {disfmarker}User Interface: {gap} stick it on the T_V_ {gap} .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Pray that you don't accidentally lose thatpiece . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Right .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: That'd be tough then . {vocalsound} Well also your remote would uh alarm you if somebodystole you t your television , yeah . Ran off with it without taking the beautiful remote control .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound}Marketing: So . Are we adding one of these two features?Industrial Designer: Let's add one of those features and say yes . {vocalsound}Marketing: {gap} gonna say {disfmarker} okay .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: So we're {vocalsound} back to a one ?UserInterface: Two .Marketing: Or a two ?Project Manager: Two .Industrial Designer: Two .Marketing: Two , 'kay . Okay . Are we technologically innovative ?Industrial Designer: Uh {disfmarker}User Interface:{vocalsound} I'd say so .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh don't get many mo remote controls withIndustrial Designer: It's all just {disfmarker}User Interface: screens on .Industrial Designer: It's alljust stolen technology when it comes down to {disfmarker} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah it's stolen technology .Marketing: From iPod yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: It's {disfmarker}{vocalsound}User Interface: But we have {gap} .Project Manager: But there's not a lot of yellow , there's not a lotta yellow .Industrial Designer: rightMarketing: But for remotes {disfmarker} yeah .Project Manager:Course that wasn't really {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: rightUser Interface: FaIndustrial Designer: right right .Project Manager: we were kinda forced to take that colour .Marketing: Two ? Three ?User Interface:{gap} 'cause it's stolen .Project Manager: I don't know that we are that innovative , to tell you the truth . {vocalsound}User Interface: No maybe not .Industrial Designer: Yeah not really .Marketing: But how manyremotes do you see like this ?User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: If we added the screaming factor {vocalsound} then we go up .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Not so many .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um I would say we're probably at four .Industrial Designer: Right .Marketing: Really ? Okay . {vocalsound}That's gonna hurt us .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay . Um spongy material ?Industrial Designer: Yeah well you have that , kind of , sort of .Project Manager: We have some spongy , yeah .User Interface:Yeah as much as as needed , I think .Marketing: 'Kay .Industrial Designer: It's not a one though .Project Manager: No .Industrial Designer: One would be the whole thingProject Manager: Yeah . Because it's only gotwhat , these parts are the grips and perhaps the back side {disfmarker} the bottom {disfmarker} the underneath on the back .Industrial Designer: to fold and stuff . Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Sothat's a four at most .Project Manager: Probably a four at most . Possibly even a five .Marketing: And lastly , did we put the fashion in electronics ?Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Y yes .UserInterface: Yeah .Marketing: I'd say we did .Project Manager: If your fashion is b is Carmen Miranda , you betcha . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: More {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah .{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well the recent fashion is rather displayed in the in the L_C_D_ and the way you operate it than the form and the colour ,User Interface: On the{disfmarker}Project Manager: It's true .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: but it definitely is {disfmarker}User Interface: Be what we were told , and they'd say yeah , definitely .Industrial Designer: {gap}.Marketing: 'Kay . Alright . Now we just gotta calculate . Six eight twelve sixteen . Seventeen divided by sUser Interface: {gap} .Project Manager: Seven is {disfmarker}Marketing: Eight .Project Manager: Two point{disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {gap} two point four ?User Interface: Is that some long division ? No .Project Manager: Something .Marketing: Well I haven't done math in years .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}Marketing: What two {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I dunno .User Interface: Just , I'm sure there's a {gap} .Marketing: Okay we'll say two point four two .Right ? How does that look ?Industrial Designer: I'm impressed . I can't do that without a calculator . {vocalsound}User Interface: No I can't do long {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound} It's been a while .User Interface:very impressive .Project Manager: And what what is the acceptable criteria ? Is there like a scale that we have to hit ?Marketing: Oh no . They just told me toIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}pick my own criteria and have you guys evaluate it {vocalsound} basically .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Alright then .Marketing: So that's that .Project Manager: Okay . Well , let's see .Marketing:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Now we get to do the budget numbers . You didn't know that you were gonna have a budget . But we do . Okay .User Interface: Yeah . Yeah so . You'd been going a long time dividingthat . It's two point four two eight five se it just keeps going on .Marketing: Oh my god .User Interface: Two point four two basically .Marketing: Okay . Yeah we'll go with that .Project Manager: So I have here an{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Fifty percent , you're kidding .Marketing: Not too shabby .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} PProject Manager: We want a fifty percent profit onthis . Oh you can't really see that very well .User Interface: {vocalsound} Charge about three hundred quid for it .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Twelve and a half Euros is what supposed to cost us . Okay , so{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: It's too much .Project Manager: Well let's see .Industrial Designer: Um {disfmarker}Project Manager: The f the {disfmarker} Wonder if I can make this {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: What the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Oh it won't let me do that . Okay . Alright so at top , I don't know if you guys can read that or not . I can't 'cause I don't have myglasses on ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: but so we've got the energy source . There's uh four , five , six categories .Industrial Designer: Battery .Project Manager: We have energy source ,electronics , case . Then we have case material supplements , interface type , and then button supplements . Okay so {disfmarker} Uh first of all energy source , we picked battery . Um and how many batteries do wethink this will probably take ?User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Probably some e either two or four .Industrial Designer: Two .Project Manager: Two ? {vocalsound} Like it . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:At four it's gonna be too heavy , so that that's not our problem . People can change it every month .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Excellent .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} They won't know until after they boughtit .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: This is consumerism .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Alright so for the electronics our choices are simpl simplechip-on-print , regular chip-on-print , advanced chip-on-print , sample sensor , sample speaker .Industrial Designer: {gap} .User Interface: We're advanced chip are we ?Industrial Designer: That's the advanced"}
{"doc_id":"doc_92","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Mm-hmm ? Okay . Ooh .User Interface: {gap}Industrial Designer: So we're 'kay ? On the {gap} or {disfmarker} No . I dunno where to put it 'cause the {disfmarker} Okay . Could you s take it off ?{gap} .Marketing: Is that alright ? {vocalsound} {gap} or {disfmarker} Okay .Industrial Designer: Okay .Marketing: Keeps coming off . 'S fiddly .Project Manager: Hmm . {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound} Right .ProjectManager: How do we sta wa how do we start ? Does anybody know ?Marketing: Oh , another one .Project Manager: So that's this {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh okay , right.Industrial Designer: Are we free to take notes uh {disfmarker} Okay .Project Manager: Uh {vocalsound} {gap} . {vocalsound} {gap} . Hmm . Okay , just hang on a second everybody . I haven't actually looked at thisyet .Marketing: {vocalsound} Ah .Project Manager: {gap} um {disfmarker}Marketing: Very nice .Project Manager: I haven't looked at it , but let's just start it off and we'll see what happens . If you're all ready .UserInterface: Yeah .Project Manager: So {gap} is the agenda ? Opening , acquaintance , tool training and project plan , discussion and then closing . Project aim is a new remote control . It's original , uh trendy and it'suser-friendly .Marketing: 'Kay .Project Manager: Project method , functional design , individual work , another meeting , conceptual design , individual work , and a meeting of details design , individual work and ameeting . Tool training . Try out the whiteboard , every participant should draw their favourite animal and sum up their favourite characteristics of that animal .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Um . Uh Miss IndustrialDesigner , would you like to go first ?Industrial Designer: Okay . So are we supposed to bring the little things for the {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah , why don't you just c , I think just clip on {disfmarker}clipMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {disfmarker} do you have a belt ?Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: Clip {gap} .Project Manager: Or put 'em in your pocket , yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah .{vocalsound} {gap} okay . So my favourite animal {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah , what's your favourite animal ?Industrial Designer: 'Kay um {disfmarker}Marketing: Ah .Project Manager: Is it rude ?Marketing:It's an elephant . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: That's a very good elephant .User Interface: The back end of an elephant .Marketing: Oh my gosh , I'm never gonna be able to draw thatwell . {vocalsound}Project Manager: 'Kay , and you want to write up on there , it says you've gotta sum up your f f your favourite characteristics of that animal .Industrial Designer: Um {vocalsound} okay , it's big , it'sgot a great memory .Marketing: Does it ? Oh .Industrial Designer: Supposed to have a great memory , we say an elephant never forgets .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: And uh dunno knowwhy but {vocalsound} looks like nice to me .Project Manager: Okay . Wonderful , well done .Industrial Designer: Nice animal .Project Manager: Do you want to use the wipe {disfmarker} the m the wiper and wipe it off?Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: And Mister aesthetics designer do you wanna go next ?User Interface: {vocalsound} Aesthetic yep , sure .Marketing: I have no idea what my favourite animal is .UserInterface: 'Kay , my favourite animal ,Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: uh let's see .Marketing: Oh .User Interface: Dunno if any of you have seen Napoleon Dynamite before .Marketing: It's {disfmarker}UserInterface: It's a liger {vocalsound} ,Project Manager: No .Marketing: A what ?User Interface: a combination of a lion and tiger {vocalsound} .Marketing: Alright .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}User Interface: Have you not seen Napoleon Dynamite ?Marketing: How {gap} .Project Manager: No .Industrial Designer: No .User Interface: Oh it's a hilarious movie .Marketing: No .User Interface: Youhave to see it . And and it's best characteristic is it's pretty much the awesomest animal . But you have to see the movie to fully appreciate it . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay , well done .Marketing: Great . Me?Project Manager: Yeah . Miss mar Miss Marketing ?Marketing: Okay . Not quite sure how this is gonna work .User Interface: There {gap} go .Marketing: {vocalsound} Cool . {vocalsound} Uh {vocalsound} well I'll trymy best {vocalsound} to draw . Can I just draw the face ?Project Manager: Um yeah , I think you can just draw the face , but then you'll have to describe in writing how the rest of it looks . {vocalsound}Marketing: Ooh. It's a cat .Project Manager: That's a very pr pretty cat .Marketing: {vocalsound} Which also has what ? A big fat body and big {disfmarker} and a long tail .Project Manager: Okay , do y do you wanna do some{disfmarker} write {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Why ?Project Manager: you wanna just write some words about it ?Marketing: Because um cuddly . And usually cats are very friendly . Usually . And they'rehealing as well . They heal . And they can feel when a human's got problems so {disfmarker}Project Manager: Wow , so they're kinda spiritual .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: So , that's why I like cats.Project Manager: Well done .Marketing: There we are , that's me . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um , I don't actually have a favourite animal ,Marketing: Mm .ProjectManager: but for the for th for this meeting I'll s draw a little {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Uh . I honestly can't draw for toffee . Uh .User Interface: {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound} Really ?Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Oh that's a {disfmarker}Project Manager: {gap} noUser Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}User Interface: A prairie dog ?Project Manager: {gap} no {vocalsound} uh {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} Oh a squirrel ?Project Manager: That's exactly what it is .User Interface:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh not a very good one {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Not bad I would say .User Interface: Yeah , that's pretty good .Project Manager: Okay , well , you got it's a s It's asquirrel , and I like them , because they're cute and stupid .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Very good .Marketing: Ah .User Interface: Alright .Project Manager: Right . Okay , so , I guess that was thetest to see if this equipment is all working .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm . Let's move on to the next page . Okay , project finance , selling price twenty five Euros , profit aim fifty million Euros.Marketing: Market range internationally sold .Project Manager: Yeah . Production cost , ah right it's gotta be {disfmarker} can't cost any more than twelve fifty to make .Marketing: Ah right okay .Project Manager:{gap} experience with with remote control , so talk about who who's used what . Any ideas ? Stuff like that . Next meeting starts in thirty minutes . {vocalsound} At quarter to twelve . {vocalsound}User Interface: So Ithink before we close uh , we are expected {disfmarker} I mean the last slide wanted us to maybe discuss longer what our what our ideas where . I mean if you wanna go back to the last slide . Uh {disfmarker}ProjectManager: Yeah .User Interface: SMarketing: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah , I think we're {disfmarker} I mean before we close the meeting , we're supposed to come up with some ideas for {disfmarker}Project Manager:Oh k so we're actually supposed to be doing this discussion like right now are we or {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: oh okay .Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: Yeah .ProjectManager: I thought this was just t giving us instructions for the re to do next , but {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah , I think this is just the preliminary , get some rough ideas for what our experiences with remotecontrols have been and and what we would {disfmarker} roughly what we would incorporate into a new one maybe .Project Manager: Okay . Right , who's got experiences with remote controls then ? Pretty mucheverybody .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .User Interface: Yeah , I think we've all got {disfmarker}Marketing: Uh . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um .Industrial Designer: Is this a T_V_ one we are supposedto make ?Marketing: Yeah . Yeah it's a T_V_ remote control .Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: 'Kay um .Marketing: Well . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: TMarketing: A new remote control for T_V_ . Whatwould I like ? {vocalsound} Um .Project Manager: W what {disfmarker} You want it big do you want it small . Are we are we going for like like telephones are going little teeny tiny things or we are going for somethingthat's that's big and {disfmarker}Marketing: Medium .User Interface: Mm . Yeah it seems like there's like {disfmarker} there's sort of a tension between two ideas , I mean , you want you want one remote that maybecan work uh all all of the functions of T_V_ and if you have whatever associated with T_V_ the D_V_D_ player , or something like that ,Project Manager: {vocalsound} Video and ts hi-fi and stuff .User Interface: but likeat the same time you don't wanna really busy remote with a thousand buttons on it or something .Project Manager: Maybe you {disfmarker} yeahUser Interface: Mm .Project Manager: now th that's the other thing isit's gotta be cheap .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: 'Cause I I I mean I was thinking something that's got different like maybe a a an L_C_D_ display on it that's got different pages for different devices,Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: but that would p that would probably be quite expensive .Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: But how do we know how much uh , I mean , how much do we have per{disfmarker} how much ?Marketing: Twelve fifty .Industrial Designer: Twelve fifty . {vocalsound}User Interface: It g can't be more than twelve fifty per unit .Marketing: Each .Project Manager: Per unit , yeah .UserInterface: Cost .Industrial Designer: So do we have to be realistic within the budget or {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well at the moment we could , wa I mean we {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Close pr I don'tknow how much it would cost . Yeah .Marketing: Guess {disfmarker}Project Manager: 'cause we this is what we th what we're doing at the moment is just saying what what we'd like , and then after we after we'vefound out what we can like , some different ideas , we can then go and do the research to find out if these {disfmarker} any of these ideas are feasible or not .Industrial Designer: Right .Project Manager: So would benice to have something that that controls lots of different things .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Um .Marketing: Couldn't we have like one that comes out ? {vocalsound} Like so you have one in like{disfmarker} mmIndustrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: it doesn't have to be really thick . I mean remote controls can be thin bits . And then you have one for your D_V_D_ and you sort of slide it out , and then youhave another one , you slide it out .Project Manager: {vocalsound} 'Kay .Marketing: {gap} have slides . And then it all comes compactProject Manager: Okay , that's {gap} .Marketing: into one . So it's not{disfmarker} you actually just putting three or four different remotes together but making them thinner , and um into one basically .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Th that's an idea .User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: So you just flip them out .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: Um {gap} have uh one very complicated one on one side with {vocalsound} all the D_V_D_ and V_C_R_ access and stuff , and then onthe other side o {vocalsound} one uh a remote control that would be very very simple with just the channel , program plus and {vocalsound} minus , and the just the mute button , for example . I can real keep it reallyreally simple on one side and the other side be very complicated .Project Manager: One side for kids , one side for adults .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound} I'm not sure if that's like{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Or grandma as well , you know it's like {vocalsound} what is the mute button .User Interface: I'm not sure if it's a good idea to have a two sided remote though , 'cause it would bevery hard to use in the way that you mani manipulate it .Industrial Designer: No , but you would slide it into uh someth like something on the back would hold {disfmarker} like you wouldn't be able to press the buttons, but {disfmarker}User Interface: Oh .Project Manager: Like it {gap}User Interface: Oh okay .Project Manager: or something like a flip telephone , something like that maybe . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah . Okay.Marketing: That would be cool .Project Manager: F flip it open and you've got all the buttons , or you flip it closed and you've just got the basic buttons on the outside maybe .Marketing: I was thinking that like a flip.User Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Um , oh we've got five minutes left .Industrial Designer: Start breaking up .Project Manager: But {disfmarker} okay .Marketing: Okay . Um .Project Manager: Well we've gota k we've got a few ideas there .User Interface: Yeah , we should uh {disfmarker}Marketing: {gap} .User Interface: I guess by the end of this meeting we should have at least a a rough conception {disfmarker} youknow {gap} stage one was technical functions design , what effect the apparatus should have . Okay . Um so I mean we still have time in our next meeting to come up with the actual concept for the user interface , butthe the functions that we're sure that we want are that it can control the T_V_ , but also devices connected to the to the T_V_ , I mean , be able to operateProject Manager: Yeah .User Interface: D_V_D_ players ,things like that .Project Manager: I have got {disfmarker} I think we should also have a back-up plan of {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} 'cause I I I just think that it might be expensive to make something that{disfmarker} I mean we don't , we haven't been told it has to be something that will control everything . We should have a back-up plan of just a really good television remote control , that just {disfmarker} that is justfor a T_V_ , but it's just a really good , nice one .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: Okay . Right .Project Manager: What do you reckon ? See 'cause , {gap} I'm just thinking {disfmarker}bearing in mind th we've gotta {disfmarker} we have to have something that's cheap to make .User Interface: Yeah , I mean {gap} . Yeah , that's true , maybe we should just concentrate on having a a good T_V_remote , and have it be umProject Manager: {vocalsound} I think we'll be able to come up with ideas and stuff a lot quicker .User Interface: have it be like ergonomic so it's comfortable to use ,Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: uh simple to use , and looks decent and {disfmarker}Project Manager: May w you know , maybe even {disfmarker}Marketing: But what'll make it what'll make it interesting for people to buy though?Project Manager: Or maybe even so something that's for disabled peopleMarketing: I mean if it's if it's just like {disfmarker}Project Manager: or so people that uh b don't see very well or {disfmarker} big buttons for{disfmarker} touchy buttons for {disfmarker}User Interface: Sorta find a niche for our remote , like market it to a certain kind of p kind of people ,Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Orjust one that looks really fucking cool .User Interface: certain certain demographic {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Could be really light or , I dunno , something special .User Interface: Yeah , no I think you're right . Yeah , rathe rather than focus on {disfmarker}Project Manager: Otherwise we'll bewe'll be here all day talking about {gap} do this let's do that n I think we sh I think we should {disfmarker}User Interface: Y {vocalsound} Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah , 'cause at the end of the day if it says justT_V_ remote , doesn't say com combination with all all the r {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah . I mean obviously everyone {disfmarker} we're uh you know uh sounds like we're all a bit sort ofgadget heads and we like things that do everything at once , but you know , that's {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} Remotes spinning out from other remotes and having little nested remotes inside .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: Yeah , that's right . Yeah . I mean I'd like one thatmakes tea as well , but {vocalsound} that's not gonna happen .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I think a flip up thing , 'cause you always have this problem of like if it's on this {disfmarker}well I did anyway , like we had five or six remotes and they would be lying on the c on the coach , and you'd come and sit down and {disfmarker} ooh , the telephone's {disfmarker} the television switched on orsomething . So maybe something that like does have a lid or closes , so you don't accidentally press a button or record button for something .Project Manager: Okay , like a lock f like a lock functs function on it like youhave on your telephones , yeah .Marketing: Yeah . But make it like really snazzy and cool {gap} people will want it . So make it {disfmarker} Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah , it's gotta be sellable . Yeah .Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah , that's true what you were saying , I mean it doesn't have to have a flip function , it can just have a lock function , so that it's not uh not usable when you don't want it to be usable .ProjectManager: Yeah .Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: And even for kids as well . It's um it's safer for them , I guess . Like theydon't flick onto channels and all that sl flick onto . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} No porn channel for children .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay . Um alright ,Industrial Designer: Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: so we've got some ideas , we've got um {disfmarker}User Interface: I guess that'sgood good for now .Project Manager: Let's move on .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: Oops , let's close that . Next meeting , uh okay .Marketing: W What does I_D_V_I_D_N_M_E_ stand for ?Project Manager:Industrial Designer um which is {disfmarker}Marketing: Ah ri okay . {gap} these are requirement specification .Project Manager: Um .Industrial Designer: That's {disfmarker} Mm .Marketing: And I'm marketing.Project Manager: Yeah , there you go . {vocalsound} So {gap} {disfmarker} User Interface Designer , that's that'sUser Interface: That's me . Okay .Project Manager: that's you , so you gotta {gap} you go , you'reyou're gonna be the one that's working out what what buttons we need . Um .User Interface: Right . Right .Project Manager: Industrial Designer , you are the one {gap} , you know , you're gonna be working out kind ofbox it goes in , I guess so , um whether it's {gap} what goes into the box , somehow .Industrial Designer: Mm . Har how it works anProject Manager: And in marketing {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: BuMarketing:{vocalsound} These are requirement specification .Project Manager: User requirements specifications .Marketing: So what the user requiresProject Manager: Yeah , what {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Do you thinkour two kind of overlap , because {disfmarker}Marketing: in a remote .Project Manager: Right , okay , yeah .User Interface: Yeah , it does seem like our our responsibilities have some overlap .Marketing: I guess that'swhat it says .Project Manager: You two {vocalsound} you two are gonna be just , I think , you just double up , you know , you {disfmarker} working together .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .ProjectManager: You're the one that's gotta go and find out {disfmarker} do th do the research , see what people want in a remote , what buttons are used more often , and s stuff like that .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager:{vocalsound} Oh , we've been warned to finish the meeting now . Okay . Okay everyone , well done .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Good meeting .User Interface: Alright , see you in thirty minutes.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: So {vocalsound} , do we take these off ?Industrial Designer: I don't {disfmarker}"}
{"doc_id":"doc_93","qid":"","text":"Marketing: I wanna find our if our remote works .Project Manager: Me too . {vocalsound}Marketing: Oh . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay . Um here's the agenda for our last meeting .Marketing: Whoohoo .ProjectManager: Um after the opening we're going to have a prototype presentation , then we're going to discuss the evaluation criteria and the financing of our remote . Then we're going to evaluate the product and I thinkthe whole production process , and then we're gonna close it up , and we have forty minutes , so let's get started . Oh , no , let's have the prototype presentation .Industrial Designer: Mm 'kay ,User Interface:{gap}Industrial Designer: you ready ?User Interface: Um sure . You or me ?Industrial Designer: Y you read that stuff , since you wrote it .User Interface: Okay . Well , since our materials aren't exactly what we weregoing for , I'm just gonna translate what this all means for you .Industrial Designer: I'll be the Vanna .User Interface: {vocalsound} The base is gonna be gunmetal gray , which is what we had decided , and it's gonnabe plastic . Um then there's the latex cover , which is what you see as red . Um because it can be replaceable , we just kinda went with the colour .Project Manager: Right .User Interface: Um and then the buttons areactually kind of poking through rather than on top . Um and the buttons will be a l much lighter blue , almost see-through .Project Manager: Hmm .User Interface: It's just sort of a very pale blue and a light-up yellow.Marketing: That's nice .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: The whole thing lights up if you press any button , rather than it {disfmarker} just that one button will light up .Marketing: Good .User Interface: Um andthen at the bottom we have our logo . Um bright yellow sort of design with the R_R_ {vocalsound} which will actually look like our logo .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Great .User Interface: And then on the side youhave the buttons . {vocalsound} They're one button , but they kind of push up and down .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: I don't think they're scrolling .Industrial Designer: No . They're just buttons .UserInterface: {vocalsound} Right , yeah . And then {disfmarker} yeah , the buttons .Industrial Designer: On off switch will be here and as you've noticed on our prototype um they've ended up with a curvature kind of , byconcave sort of thing , except for , you know , {gap} can't see underneath .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: So I'm hoping that when we get to production we can actually make them like that , because they'revery nice to stock {gap} you know , stick your finger in . Um the two squared buttons are are two probably least used , menu , mute ,User Interface: Thumb-shaped .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: and thenthese are the numbers , so our channel and our volume will be on either side .User Interface: Yeah . And then the last thing is just that it'll be black labelling on top , just which we didn't do . {vocalsound}ProjectManager: Okay . And did you determine um the curvature of the bottom part of it for the hand , is it gonna be a single or a double ?User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I'd say a single .Project Manager:Single . Single sounds good ,User Interface: Single .Project Manager: 'cause it's not big enough to really constitute a double .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah , it's only actually the size of my hand .UserInterface: Right .Project Manager: Great . Great . I think you did an awesome job .Marketing: Yeah , I think it's a beautiful {disfmarker}Project Manager: It is beautiful , and it's everything that we discussed .UserInterface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah . Good job , you guys .Project Manager: Good job .Industrial Designer: Whoohoo .User Interface: Oh thank you . {vocalsound}Marketing: Those are really good .ProjectManager: Alright {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {gap}Project Manager: what's next in our agenda ? Um we're gonna discuss the evaluation criteria , and that's with Courtney .Marketing: Okay , it's a PowerPointpresentation . I don't really know exactly what we should uh talk about . It's under evaluation .Project Manager: Right .Marketing: Alright . Um so these are the criteria we're gonna ask , is it easy to use , is itfashionable uh {disfmarker} yeah , I guess we should write these down so we can reference them .Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: Feel good meaning what ?Marketing: Like does it feel good , like{disfmarker}User Interface: Physically ,Project Manager: Right .User Interface: okay .Marketing: yeah , physically .User Interface: {gap}Project Manager: Sqi {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}That's just for current trend .Project Manager: Right .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: It doesn't really count , you guys .Industrial Designer: Yeah , it was a little difficult to incorporate the cover with the cherryfruit on it .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah . But it's {disfmarker} so we do have removable covers , right ?Project Manager: Right .Industrial Designer: Yes .User Interface: {gap}Marketing: Yeah , wellthen that's covered .Project Manager: 'Kay .Marketing: And so we n k everybody have that ?Project Manager: I'll wait .Marketing: Yeah , she's got it .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: It's good . Yeah . Okay so , we'reusing the criteria uh for a seven point scale , and so we need to discuss how we feel . It falls within this range , so for easy to use , do we feel it's very easy to use ?Project Manager: Are we going to indiUser Interface:True or false , easy to use .Project Manager: I say we individually rate {disfmarker} what do you say ?Marketing: You guys {disfmarker}Project Manager: Just orally .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .ProjectManager: Why not ? We have {disfmarker} okay .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Um easy to use . I vote six .Marketing: Oh wait , that's false .Project Manager: Oh ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager:two .Marketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: I'd say two as well .User Interface: Yeah , two .Marketing: Two . That's what I say .Project Manager: Uh hello , we're great .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay ,fashionable ?Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um one .Industrial Designer: At the moment , no .Project Manager: No .Marketing: No . I mean like no , I think it's very fashionable .Project Manager: Me too , very chic .{vocalsound}Marketing: I thi I would give it a one .Project Manager: One , I give it a one .Industrial Designer: Okay .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I'll give it a two , because at the moment it's notlooking that way .Project Manager: Oh , and ma it's a prototype ,Marketing: Well , that's that's just like {disfmarker} that's a clay , it's a prototype .Project Manager: right .User Interface: Mm I don't think it's thatfashionable .Marketing: What do you think ?User Interface: I'd give it like three or four .Project Manager: Well , now I'm {gap} .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: So , the average is about a two .User Interface:{vocalsound} But then I'm not fashionable , soMarketing: Yeah , it's a two .Project Manager: Two or three . Two point five .User Interface: don't use my opinion .Marketing: That's okay . Yeah .Industrial Designer:Neither are all o all the customers we have , either .Marketing: {vocalsound} UmUser Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: does it feel good ?Project Manager: Imagine , since we obviously don't have that .UserInterface: Does it feel good ?Marketing: I feel like {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Uh the shape of it actually does uh .Project Manager: And it's i it is very ergonomically designed . It's gonna be curved .UserInterface: Yeah , it's gonna be thicker .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Depth .Marketing: I think it feels good .Project Manager: I think so too .Marketing: I'll give it a two .Project Manager: 'Kay . Two .UserInterface: {vocalsound} I'll give it a one .Marketing: What do you say ?Industrial Designer: I'd say a two .Project Manager: Alright , average is two .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Is it technologically innovative ?Oh sorry I'm taking over your job here .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Oh no , it's fine ,Project Manager: Go right ahead . {vocalsound}Marketing: you're {disfmarker} I mean you're Project Manager.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Um yeah , I mean and it {disfmarker} does it have voice {disfmarker} I mean the phrase recognition on it ?Project Manager: Yes . Right ? We were able to do it with thatkind of chip .User Interface: Oh right , the {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: We could do it with the chip , yes . It wasn't {disfmarker} we have no reflection of it on the prototype ,Marketing: And there's no way you canrepresent it on here . YProject Manager: Yeah , right .Industrial Designer: but that's because it's only two dimensions , really .Project Manager: That was {disfmarker} 'kay . And we discussed that being included .UserInterface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah , so .User Interface: Right .Marketing: Then yes , then I would {disfmarker} well it isn't {disfmarker} what else would it need for it to be technologically innovative?Industrial Designer: It {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well we don' have the {disfmarker} you know , we can't say channel , and it changes the channel , channel eight .Marketing: And it doesn't cover anything otherthen T_V_ ,Project Manager: Right .Marketing: so I'd probably give it a three .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Even though it is {disfmarker} for just a T_V_ remote it's uh very advanced .But it is just a T_V_ remote .Project Manager: Yeah . I'd go for a three or four on that one , so {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah I go four .Project Manager: okay , let's go for a three point five .User Interface:{vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Three and an half .Project Manager: Alright , and the last criteria {disfmarker} is it is it um {disfmarker}User Interface: Squishy and fruity .Marketing: {vocalsound} Wellyeah , so I'd give it a two .Project Manager: Well , we've covered that with theUser Interface: It's just trendy , basically .Project Manager: trendy . Sure . Capable . Very capable .Industrial Designer: It's capable of beingsquishy and fruity .Marketing: Oh , it's very capable of being squishy and fruity .User Interface: {vocalsound} Okay .Project Manager: And {vocalsound} it's very important . 'Kay , there we go .Marketing: Yeah .ProjectManager: So .Marketing: Okay , next .Project Manager: Next . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} So um our re model slightly resembling a giant delicious cookie appears to be a winner ,Project Manager:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: and uh hopefully we'll sell millions . Good job , team . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} How did you get that in there ?User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} What ?Industrial Designer: The {vocalsound} slightly resembling a giant delicious cookie .Project Manager: {vocalsound} It does .User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: It {vocalsound} it does . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} That was good .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Very good .Marketing: Thanks .Project Manager: Alright , let's go backto this {disfmarker} {vocalsound} No , that's it . Hmm . Oops . Okay , so now uh we're moving on to finance , okay . I'm gonna show you an Excel spreadsheet and we're going to fill it in together based on whatcomponents we're including in our remote and see if it's under twelve fifty Euro . If so , we can proceed , if not , we need to go back to the drawing board a little bit . 'Kay ? So let me bring that up . Here we go . Alright .Um it's not hand dynamo , it's powered by battery , so we give it a {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yep .Marketing: Two .Project Manager: Number of components you plan to use . Do I just put quantity being onebattery , or {disfmarker} Yeah .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Mm 'kay .Project Manager: But if it's a {disfmarker} do you wanna go for {disfmarker} this is where we need to make a final call on if it's a lithiumor do we wanna go triple A_s , 'cause triple A_s we're gonna have t do more than one battery . Oh , let's just go for a lithium . What do you say ?Industrial Designer: Yeah ,User Interface: {vocalsound} {gap}{vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah , let's let's do a lithium .Project Manager: {vocalsound} I think uh I think the people who purchase this are gonna be technologicallyIndustrial Designer: it's {gap} .Marketing: We're gonthat's gon Nologically advanced ,Project Manager: {disfmarker} right .Marketing: yeah .Project Manager: Okay , down to the electronics um section . We're gonna need this kind , correct , if we do the voice sensor,Industrial Designer: Yep .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: so one of those . It is a single-curved , so one of those .Marketing: Uh {gap} .Project Manager: Oh . What's that ? Yeah , that's correct .Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: 'Kay , down here , case material .User Interface: It's plastic .Marketing: We {disfmarker}Project Manager: Plastic .Marketing: plastic .User Interface: And special colour .Marketing: And special colour.Project Manager: 'Kay . {vocalsound} Down here , interface type . We're gonna have the integrated scroll scroll wheel .User Interface: No , we don't have the scroll .Project Manager: Isn't {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}Project Manager: oh those are just regular buttons .Industrial Designer: Well , that's the push-button too , right there .User Interface: Buttons .Marketing: But it's {disfmarker} Yeah ,ProjectManager: This ?Marketing: but i so iIndustrial Designer: Integrated scroll-wheel or push-button .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: We're really having just push-button interface .Project Manager: Okay ,so we can just go {disfmarker} um .Marketing: But will we w actually we'll need two , won't we ? One for the top and then one for the s one e for each side .Industrial Designer: But it {disfmarker} that just covers thetype of button we're having . Because we're not doing a scroll on the side , it's still push-button .User Interface: Oh like the {disfmarker} twenty nine means like you have both scrolls andIndustrial Designer:Push-button .Project Manager: Right I think she's {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: But we just have pushUser Interface: push-buttons .Marketing: Okay .User Interface: But we don't have any scrolls .Project Manager:I think what Courtney's talking about is do we need to put two here ?Marketing: Like because there's like one interface right here and then {disfmarker} because it's not gonna be on the same plane when you press thebutton .Project Manager: Right .Marketing: There's gonna have to be additional signals on the sides .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Okay .Marketing: So is that gonna be an extra one on each side ?Project Manager: I don'tknow , they might put us {disfmarker} well , let's just .User Interface: Two interfaces , is that what w should we s say ?Project Manager: Two or would it be three ?Industrial Designer: Let's call it thMarketing: Or three ,because of one on each side and one on top .User Interface: Okay , fine . Yeah .Marketing: I mean it's fine 'cause it comes out the same as twenty nine . Well less than twenty nine even .Project Manager:OkayIndustrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: and we're gonna {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: button supplements {disfmarker} the buttons are no uh okay .Marketing: They're a specialcolour . Um they're uh they're a special form , 'cause they're indented .Project Manager: Are they ? Oh , right .User Interface: And then sMarketing: And , they're a special material .User Interface: yeah .ProjectManager: Mm . Well , we're under cost then . Alright .User Interface: We're over ?Project Manager: No , we're under .Industrial Designer: Grand .Marketing: We're under .Project Manager: Twelve point five is our limit.User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: We've got eleven point two .User Interface: Oh , I see .Project Manager: Alright .Industrial Designer: So we can go to production .Project Manager: We can go to {disfmarker} Idunno what I just did . {vocalsound} Okay . Now we're gonna talk about the project process um and whether or not we're satisfied with the whole process and the result . Um did we have a lot of room for creativity ?Did we have a lot of room for individual leadership , um teamwork , and the means , meaning the technology that we used to produce our little guy there , and if we found any new ideas . Now , question is , how do wedo this ?User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Go back .Marketing: {vocalsound} I think we just discuss it .Project Manager: Discuss , sure .Industrial Designer: Previous .Project Manager: Alright . Whowant who would like to go first ?Industrial Designer: We think we got stifled for cri {vocalsound} creativity by the company itself , in restricting us only to using a T_V_ remote , initially .User Interface: We didn't have awhiteboard .Project Manager: Hmm . Hmm .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Oh that's true .User Interface: And no internet .Marketing: Yeah . {vocalsound} No , yeah , that's a good point . 'Cause I'd forgotten thatthat wasn't our decision , yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound} And how did you feel about the whole the whole process though ?Marketing: Oh , overall I mean I thought we did a good job like {disfmarker}UserInterface: {vocalsound}Marketing: We got to choose {disfmarker} basically we had control over {disfmarker} minus it being just merely a T_V_ remote we got to choose what we wanted to do with it .Project Manager:Right , and we got say over what {disfmarker} how technologically advanced it should be and also how fashionable , which I kind of like {disfmarker}Marketing: And we're a fashion forward technology company .ProjectManager: we {disfmarker} yep . You know it .Industrial Designer: {gap} right .Project Manager: Um what about um the teamwork aspect ? How did you guys enjoy making the model , the prototype ?Marketing:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .User Interface: I think we did well .Project Manager: I think ya' did . Did you work well together in there , and {disfmarker}User Interface: Yep .{vocalsound}Project Manager: 'kay .Industrial Designer: Well , no , there was there was scratching and fighting , but {disfmarker} no {vocalsound} .Marketing: Minus that one fight .User Interface: {vocalsound}Gouges .Project Manager: Oh my God ,Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: and we've all been a pretty congenial team here , I think .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: We hadn't had any ma fallings out.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah . I mean minus you guys being wha what is it , the survey , annoying or what is it ?Project Manager: {vocalsound} Irritating .Industrial Designer: Irritating .{vocalsound}User Interface: Irritating .Marketing: Irritating , yeah . Wow that's a {disfmarker} it's definitely a strong one .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: The means , the whiteboard didn't work .{vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah .User Interface: And no internet .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: I have to knock that one down a couple notches .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} A and ourfriend here really feels strongly about the internet . {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah , and no internet .User Interface: Misses . I do .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: There's so much available .Marketing:And the digital the digital pensUser Interface: Like it's informationProject Manager: Yeah , digital pens .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I really appreciated those , yeah .Marketing: were {disfmarker} they werepretty cool .Project Manager: They were fine .Marketing: Yeah they were fun , even though I'm not really sure what I could do with them , but they are awesome . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: The use of thelaptops for receiving everything .Project Manager: Right , laptops are extremely handy ,Industrial Designer: It was wireless too , so .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: wireless . And that we have a shared networkwhere we can put all of the {disfmarker}Marketing: And these things whoa .Industrial Designer: And let's not forget the sexy dual microphones everyone gets to wear .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah . And BigBrother .Project Manager: Big brother .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: 'Kay , have we found any new ideas through this process ?Marketing: Um we arereally gonna sell this .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Ta-da .Project Manager: For something that looks cool and also has what I want it to b do technologically .User Interface: Yeah .ProjectManager: And that's your right brain taking over , w wanting the artistic , the fashionable , the hip , you know .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: If we all just went out and bought useful things , I don't think"}
{"doc_id":"doc_94","qid":"","text":"Professor E: Let 's see . Test ? Test ? Yeah . OK .Grad A: Hello ?PhD B: Channel one .Grad A: Hello ?PhD C: Test .Professor E: I was saying Hynek 'll be here next week , uh , Wednesday through Friday {disfmarker} uh ,through Saturday , and , um , I won't be here Thursday and Friday . But my suggestion is that , uh , at least for this meeting , people should go ahead , uh , cuz Hynek will be here , and , you know , we don't have anyCzech accent yet , uh , {vocalsound} as far as I know , so {disfmarker} There we go .PhD F: OK .Professor E: Um . So other than reading digits , what 's our agenda ?PhD F: I don't really have , uh , anything new .Been working on {pause} Meeting Recorder stuff . So .Professor E: OK . Um . Do you think that would be the case for next week also ? Or is {disfmarker} is , uh {disfmarker} ? What 's your projection on {disfmarker}?PhD F: Um .Professor E: Cuz the one thing {disfmarker} the one thing that seems to me we really should try , if you hadn't tried it before , because it hadn't occurred to me {disfmarker} it was sort of an obvious thing{disfmarker} is , um , adjusting the , uh , sca the scaling and , uh , insertion penalty sorta stuff .PhD F: I did play with that , actually , a little bit . Um . What happens is , uh , {vocalsound} when you get to the noisystuff , you start getting lots of insertions .Professor E: Right .PhD F: And , um , so I 've tried playing around a little bit with , um , the insertion penalties and things like that .Professor E: Yeah .PhD F: Um . I mean , it{disfmarker} it didn't make a whole lot of difference . Like for the well - matched case , it seemed like it was pretty good . Um . {vocalsound} I could do more playing with that , though . And , uh {disfmarker}ProfessorE: But you were looking at mel cepstrum .PhD F: and see . Yes .Professor E: Right .PhD F: Oh , you 're talking about for th {vocalsound} for our features .Professor E: Right . So , I mean , i it it 's not the direction thatyou were working with that we were saying what 's the {disfmarker} uh , what 's the best you can do with {disfmarker} with mel cepstrum . But , they raised a very valid point ,PhD F: Mmm .Professor E: which , Iguess {disfmarker} So , to first order {disfmarker} I mean , you have other things you were gonna do , but to first order , I would say that the conclusion is that if you , um , do , uh , some monkeying around with , uh, the exact HTK training and @ @ {comment} with , uh , you know , how many states and so forth , that it {disfmarker} it doesn't particularly improve the performance . In other words , that even though it soundspretty dumb , just applying the same number of states to everything , more or less , no matter what language , isn't so bad . Right ? And I guess you hadn't gotten to all the experiments you wanted to do with numberof Gaussians ,PhD F: Right .Professor E: but , um , let 's just {disfmarker} If we had to {disfmarker} if we had to draw a conclusion on the information we have so far , we 'd say something like that . Right ?PhD F: Mm -hmm .Professor E: Uh , so the next question to ask , which is I think the one that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that Andreas was dre addressing himself to in the lunch meeting , is , um , we 're not supposed toadjust the back - end , but anybody using the system would .PhD F: Yeah .Professor E: So , if you were just adjusting the back - end , how much better would you do , uh , in noise ? Uh , because the language scalingand insertion penalties and so forth are probably set to be about right for mel cepstrum .PhD F: Mm - hmm .Professor E: But , um , they 're probably not at all set right for these things , particularly these things thatlook over , uh , larger time windows , in one way or another with {disfmarker} with LDA and KLT and neural nets and {vocalsound} all these things . In the fa past we 've always found that we had to increase theinsertion penalty to {disfmarker} to correspond to such things . So , I think that 's , uh , @ @ {comment} that 's kind of a first - order thing that {disfmarker} that we should try .PhD F: So for th so the experiment is to, um , run our front - end like normal , with the default , uh , insertion penalties and so forth , and then tweak that a little bit and see how much of a difference it makesProfessor E: So by \" our front - end \" I mean take, you know , the Aurora - two s take some version that Stephane has that is , you know , our current best version of something .PhD F: if we were {disfmarker} Mm - hmm .Professor E: Um . I mean , y don't wanna dothis over a hundred different things that they 've tried but , you know , for some version that you say is a good one . You know ? Um . How {disfmarker} how much , uh , does it improve if you actually adjust that ?PhDF: OK .Professor E: But it is interesting . You say you {disfmarker} you have for the noisy {disfmarker} How about for the {disfmarker} for the mismatched or {disfmarker} or {disfmarker} or {disfmarker} or the{disfmarker} or the medium mismatched conditions ? Have you {disfmarker} ? When you adjusted those numbers for mel cepstrum , did it {disfmarker} ?PhD F: Uh , I {disfmarker} I don't remember off the top of myhead . Um . Yeah . I didn't even write them down . I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I don't remember . I would need to {disfmarker} Well , I did write down , um {disfmarker} So , when I was doing {disfmarker} I justwrote down some numbers for the well - matched case .Professor E: Yeah .PhD F: Um . Looking at the {disfmarker} I wrote down what the deletions , substitutions , and insertions were , uh , for different numbers ofstates per phone .Professor E: Yeah .PhD F: Um , but , uh , that {disfmarker} that 's all I wrote down .Professor E: OK .PhD F: So . I {disfmarker} I would {disfmarker} Yeah . I would need to do that .Professor E: OK .So {disfmarker}PhD F: I can do that for next week .Professor E: Yeah . And , um {disfmarker} Yeah . Also , eh , eh , sometimes if you run behind on some of these things , maybe we can get someone else to do it andyou can supervise or something . But {disfmarker} but I think it would be {disfmarker} it 'd be good to know that .PhD F: OK . I just need to get , um , {vocalsound} front - end , uh , stuff from youPhD B: Hmm .PhDF: or you point me to some files {pause} that you 've already calculated .PhD B: Yeah . Alright .Professor E: OK . Uh .PhD F: I probably will have time to do that and time to play a little bit with the silence model.Professor E: Mm - hmm .PhD F: So maybe I can have that for next week when Hynek 's here .Professor E: Yeah .PhD B: Mm - hmm .Professor E: Yeah . Cuz , I mean , the {disfmarker} the other {disfmarker} That , infact , might have been part of what , uh , the difference was {disfmarker} at least part of it that {disfmarker} that we were seeing . Remember we were seeing the SRI system was so much better than the tandemsystem .PhD F: Hmm .Professor E: Part of it might just be that the SRI system , they {disfmarker} they {disfmarker} they always adjust these things to be sort of optimized ,PhD F: Is there {disfmarker} ?Professor E:and {disfmarker}PhD F: I wonder if there 's anything that we could do {vocalsound} to the front - end that would affect the insertion {disfmarker}Professor E: Yes . I think you can .PhD F: What could you do ?ProfessorE: Well , um {disfmarker} uh , part of what 's going on , um , is the , uh , the range of values . So , if you have something that has a much smaller range or a much larger range , and taking the appropriate root .PhD F:Oh . Mm - hmm .Professor E: You know ? If something is kind of like the equivalent of a bunch of probabilities multiplied together , you can take a root of some sort . If it 's like seven probabilities together , you cantake the seventh root of it or something , or if it 's in the log domain , divide it by seven .PhD F: Mm - hmm .Professor E: But {disfmarker} but , um , that has a similar effect because it changes the scale of the numbers{disfmarker} of the differences between different candidates from the acoustic modelPhD F: Oh , right .Professor E: as opposed to what 's coming from the language model .PhD F: So that w Right . So , in effect , that's changing the value of your insertion penalty .Professor E: Yeah . I mean , it 's more directly like the {disfmarker} the language scaling or the , uh {disfmarker} the model scaling or acoustic scaling ,PhD F: That 'sinteresting .Professor E: but you know that those things have kind of a similar effect to the insertion penaltyPhD F: Mm - hmm .Professor E: anyway . They 're a slightly different way of {disfmarker} of handling it .PhDF: Right .Professor E: So , um {disfmarker}PhD F: So if we know what the insertion penalty is , then we can get an idea about what range our number should be in ,Professor E: I think so .PhD F: so that they {pause}match with that .Professor E: Yeah . Yeah . So that 's why I think that 's another reason other than curiosity as to why i it would in fact be kinda neat to find out if we 're way off . I mean , the other thing is , are aren'twe seeing {disfmarker} ? Y yPhD F: Mm - hmm .Professor E: I 'm sure you 've already looked at this bu in these noisy cases , are {disfmarker} ? We are seeing lots of insertions . Right ? The insertion number is quitehigh ?PhD B: Yeah .Professor E: I know the VAD takes pre care of part of that ,PhD F: Yeah .PhD B: Yeah .Professor E: but {disfmarker}PhD F: I 've seen that with the mel cepstrum . I don't {disfmarker} I don't knowabout {pause} the Aurora front - end , but {disfmarker}PhD B: I think it 's much more balanced with , uh {disfmarker} when the front - end is more robust . Yeah . I could look at it {disfmarker} at this . Yeah . Mm -hmm .Professor E: Yeah . Wha - what 's a typical number ?PhD B: I don't {disfmarker} I don't know .Professor E: Do we {disfmarker} ? Oh , you {disfmarker} oh , you don't know .PhD B: I don't have this in{disfmarker}Professor E: OK . I 'm sure it 's more balanced ,PhD B: Mm - hmm .Professor E: but it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it wouldn't surprise me if there 's still {disfmarker}PhD B: Mm - hmm .Professor E: Imean , in {disfmarker} in the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the old systems we used to do , I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} uh , I remember numbers kind of like insertions being half the number of deletions , as being{disfmarker} and both numbers being {disfmarker} tend to be on the small side comparing to {disfmarker} to , uh , substitutions .PhD B: Mm - hmm .PhD F: Well , this {disfmarker} the whole problem with insertionswas what I think , um , we talked about when the guy from OGI came down {pause} that one time and {disfmarker} and that was when people were saying , well we should have a , uh , uh , voice activity detector{disfmarker}Professor E: Right .PhD F: that , because all that stuff {comment} that we 're getting thr the silence that 's getting through is causing insertions . So .PhD B: Mmm .Professor E: Right .PhD F: I 'll bet youthere 's still a lot {vocalsound} of insertions .PhD B: Mm - hmm .Professor E: Yeah . And it may be less of a critical thing . I mean , the fact that some get by may be less of a critical thing if you , uh , get things in theright range .PhD F: Mm - hmm .Professor E: So , I mean , the insertions is {disfmarker} is a symptom . It 's a symptom that there 's something , uh , wrong with the range .PhD F: Right .Professor E: But there 's{disfmarker} uh , your {disfmarker} your {disfmarker} your substitutions tend to go up as well . So , uh , I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think that ,PhD F: Mm - hmm .Professor E: uh , the most obvious thing is justthe insertions , @ @ . But {disfmarker} Uh {disfmarker} um . If you 're operating in the wrong range {disfmarker} I mean , that 's why just in general , if you {vocalsound} change what these {disfmarker} thesepenalties and scaling factors are , you reach some point that 's a {disfmarker} that 's a minimum . So . Um . Um . We do have to do well over a range of different conditions , some of which are noisier than others . Um. But , um , I think we may get a better handle on that if we {disfmarker} if we see {disfmarker} Um , I mean we ca it 's if we actually could pick a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a more stable value for the range ofthese features , it , um , uh , could {disfmarker} Uh {disfmarker} Even though it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's true that in a real situation you can in fact adjust the {disfmarker} these {disfmarker} thesescaling factors in the back - end , and it 's ar artificial here that we 're not adjusting those , you certainly don't wanna be adjusting those all the time . And if you have a nice front - end that 's in roughly the right range{disfmarker}PhD F: Hmm .Professor E: I remember after we got our stuff more or less together in the previous systems we built , that we tended to set those scaling factors at kind of a standard level , and we wouldrarely adjust them again , even though you could get a {disfmarker}PhD F: Mm - hmm .Professor E: for an evaluation you can get an extra point or something if you tweaked it a little bit . But , once we knew what rouroughly the right operating range was , it was pretty stable , and {disfmarker} Uh , we might just not even be in the right operating range .PhD F: So , would the {disfmarker} ? Uh , would a good idea be to try to mapit into the same range that you get in the well - matched case ? So , if we computed what the range was in well - matched , and then when we get our noisy conditions out we try to make it have the same range as{disfmarker} ?Professor E: No . You don't wanna change it for different conditions . No . No . I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} What {disfmarker} what I 'm saying {disfmarker}PhD F: Oh , I wasn'tsuggesting change it for different conditions . I was just saying that when we pick a range , we {disfmarker} we wanna pick a range that we map our numbers into {disfmarker}Professor E: Yeah .PhD F: we shouldprobably pick it based on the range that we get in the well - matched case . Otherwise , I mean , what range are we gonna choose to {disfmarker} to map everything into ?Professor E: Well . It depends how much wewanna do gamesmanship and how much we wanna do {disfmarker} I mean , i if he it {disfmarker} to me , actually , even if you wanna be {disfmarker} play on the gamesmanship side , it can be kinda tricky . So , Imean , what you would do is set the {disfmarker} set the scaling factors , uh , so that you got the best number for this point four five times the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} you know , and so on .PhD F: Mm - hmm.Professor E: But they might change that {disfmarker} those weightings .PhD F: Yeah .Professor E: Um . So {disfmarker} Uh {disfmarker} I just sorta think we need to explore the space . Just take a look at it a little bit.PhD F: Mm - hmm .Professor E: And we {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we may just find that {disfmarker} that we 're way off .PhD F: OK . Mm - hmm .Professor E: Maybe we 're not . You know ? As for these otherthings , it may turn out that , uh , {vocalsound} it 's kind of reasonable . But then {disfmarker} I mean , Andreas gave a very reasonable response , and he 's probably not gonna be the only one who 's gonna say thisin the future {disfmarker} of , you know , people {disfmarker} people within this tight - knit community who are doing this evaluation {vocalsound} are accepting , uh , more or less , that these are the rules . But ,people outside of it who look in at the broader picture are certainly gonna say \" Well , wait a minute . You 're doing all this standing on your head , uh , on the front - end ,PhD F: Yeah .Professor E: when all you could dois just adjust this in the back - end with one s one knob . \"PhD F: Mm - hmm .Professor E: And so we have to at least , I think , determine that that 's not true , which would be OK , or determine that it is true , in whichcase we want to adjust that and then continue with {disfmarker} with what we 're doing . And as you say {disfmarker} as you point out {disfmarker} finding ways to then compensate for that in the front - end{vocalsound} also then becomes a priority for this particular test ,PhD F: Right .Professor E: and saying you don't have to do that .PhD F: Mm - hmm .Professor E: So . OK . So , uh {disfmarker} What 's new with you?PhD B: Uh . So there 's nothing {pause} new . Um .Professor E: Uh , what 's old with you that 's developed ?PhD B: I 'm sorry ?Professor E: You {disfmarker} OK . What 's old with you that has developed over the lastweek or two ?PhD B: Mmm . Well , so we 've been mainly working on the report and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} Yeah .PhD F: Mainly working on what ?PhD B: On the report {pause} of the work that was alreadydone .PhD F: Oh .PhD B: Um . Mm - hmm . That 's all .PhD F: How about that {disfmarker} ? Any - anything new on the thing that , uh , you were working on with the , uh {disfmarker} ?PhD C: I don't have results yet.PhD F: No results ? Yeah .Professor E: What was that ?PhD F: The {disfmarker} the , uh ,Grad A: Voicing thing .PhD F: voicing detector .Professor E: I mean , what what 's {disfmarker} what 's going on now ? Whatare you {pause} doing ?PhD C: Uh , to try to found , nnn , robust feature for detect between voice and unvoice . And we {disfmarker} w we try to use {vocalsound} the variance {vocalsound} of the es differencebetween the FFT spectrum and mel filter bank spectrum .Professor E: Yeah .PhD C: Uh , also the {disfmarker} another parameter is {disfmarker} relates with the auto - correlation function .Professor E: Uh - huh .PhDC: R - ze energy and the variance a also of the auto - correlation function .Professor E: Uh - huh . So , that 's {disfmarker} Yeah . That 's what you were describing , I guess , a week or two ago .PhD C: Yeah . But wedon't have res we don't have result of the AURO for Aurora yet .Professor E: So .PhD C: We need to train the neural networkProfessor E: Mm - hmm .PhD C: and {disfmarker}Professor E: So you 're training neuralnetworks now ?PhD C: No , not yet .Professor E: So , what {disfmarker} wha {vocalsound} wh wha what what 's going on ?PhD C: Well , we work in the report , too , because we have a lot of result ,Professor E: Uh -huh .PhD C: they are very dispersed , and was necessary to {disfmarker} to look in all the directory to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to give some more structure .PhD B: YeaProfessor E: So . B So {disfmarker} Yeah . Iif I can summarize , basically what 's going on is that you 're going over a lot of material that you have generated in furious fashion , f generating many results and doing many experiments and trying to pull it togetherinto some coherent form to be able to see wha see what happens .PhD C: Hm - hmm .PhD B: Uh , y yeah . Basically we we 've stopped , uh , experimenting ,Professor E: Yes ?PhD B: I mean . We 're just writing somekind of technical report . And {disfmarker}PhD F: Is this a report that 's for Aurora ? Or is it just like a tech report for ICSI ,PhD C: No .PhD B: Yeah .PhD C: For ICSI .PhD F: or {disfmarker} ? Ah . I see .PhD B: Yeah.PhD C: Just summary of the experiment and the conclusion and something like that .Professor E: Yeah .PhD B: Mm - hmm .Professor E: OK . So , my suggestion , though , is that you {disfmarker} you not necessarilyfinish that . But that you put it all together so that it 's {disfmarker} you 've got {disfmarker} you 've got a clearer structure to it . You know what things are , you have things documented , you 've looked things upthat you needed to look up .PhD B: Mm - hmm .Professor E: So that , you know {disfmarker} so that such a thing can be written . And , um {disfmarker} When {disfmarker} when {disfmarker} when do you leaveagain ?PhD C: Uh , in July . First of July .Professor E: First of July ? OK . And that you figure on actually finishing it in {disfmarker} in June . Because , you know , you 're gonna have another bunch of results to fit inthere anyway .PhD B: Mm - hmm .PhD C: Mm - hmm .Professor E: And right now it 's kind of important that we actually go forward with experiments .PhD C: It 's not .Professor E: So {disfmarker} so , I {disfmarker} Ithink it 's good to pause , and to gather everything together and make sure it 's in good shape , so that other people can get access to it and so that it can go into a report in June . But I think {vocalsound} to{disfmarker} to really work on {disfmarker} on fine - tuning the report n at this point is {disfmarker} is probably bad timing , I {disfmarker} I {pause} think .PhD B: Mm - hmm . Yeah . Well , we didn't {disfmarker}we just planned to work on it one week on this report , not {disfmarker} no more , anyway . Um .Professor E: But you ma you may really wanna add other things later anywayPhD B: Yeah . Mm - hmm .Professor E:because you {disfmarker}PhD B: Mmm .Professor E: There 's more to go ?PhD B: Yeah . Well , so I don't know . There are small things that we started to {disfmarker} to do . But {disfmarker}PhD F: Are youdiscovering anything , uh , that makes you scratch your head as you write this report , like why did we do that , or why didn't we do this ,PhD B: Uh .PhD F: or {disfmarker} ?PhD B: Yeah . Yeah . And {disfmarker}"}
{"doc_id":"doc_95","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: So we come again for the the second meeting .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Uh for the aim of this meeting now is to to make presentation about uh the work for each one .UserInterface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: And {gap} take the the decision about the the design and the functionality of the the remote control .User Interface: Okay . {vocalsound}Project Manager: And we have{disfmarker} think I got a new project requirement .Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: So I think uh teletext becomes outdated . So the popularity of the {disfmarker} since the popularity of the internet,Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: and I think we don't need lighting adaptive , so the remote control should be only used for the the television . And of course we should have our image {gap} in the in thedesign . So , let's start with the the industrial designer .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {gap} .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah , alright .Project Manager: Or y you can use thewhiteboard if you want .Industrial Designer: So uh {disfmarker} Well I have a PowerPoint pr presentation stored in my in my personal folderProject Manager: Here .Industrial Designer: so I I I think you can reach itfrom here .Marketing: Just go to explorer .Project Manager: Oh okay .Marketing: Or open . Participant two .Industrial Designer: Participant two .Project Manager: This one .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Open uh.Industrial Designer: Uh open . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Do you want to open {disfmarker}User Interface: Because it's open you mean . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound} Right , so um I will talk about the the w working design and {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} F_ five .Marketing: Slide show , view slide show , {gap} .Project Manager: Ah .Industrial Designer:And um well I I will present my my first idea on how to build the {disfmarker} our new remote control for television .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So uh can you go one page down , please . So Ithink the first things to do is to define the hardware components neededs to achieve uh what we want to do .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So uh mm I'm thin uh {vocalsound} I think uh I I'll do asurvey about what is uh what is available on the market and what what is the the cheapest possible {vocalsound} things we hav we can use . Then uh I will try with the technical team to to build a prototype and to seeuh with uh h how this little box {vocalsound} would uh look look like .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: And how an and we can uh start troubleshooting first uh com communication problems or thingslike that .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: And when we are ready with this first prototype I I think we can add some software functionalities on a programmable chip like browsing by content or umthings like that . Okay so can you go down uh {disfmarker} So , wha what I think {vocalsound} for now {vocalsound} is {vocalsound} we don't want to have a remote control w which is wiredUser Interface:{vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: so uh I think we u we can use a battery for the {gap} . Then two programmable chips for both software functionalities and communication . And thecommunication with the T_V_ set is uh made through uh infrared communication So uh this is the {vocalsound} the schema of the {vocalsound} o of the future uh remote controlsUser Interface: Did you draw it ?{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Wow . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: so uh you can you can see the components , uh battery and uh the two chips goes to the infrared uhconnection to the T_V_ set .User Interface: This {gap} .Project Manager: This {disfmarker}User Interface: What is the other chip for ? The one on top .Industrial Designer: The one on top is for the um {disfmarker}well the functionali the functionalitiesUser Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: One is a communication .Industrial Designer: and the the th red um {disfmarker} sorry the green one is is to {disfmarker} well , puttingthings together , um f transform the data into uh qu into the format to to {gap} uh to communicate with the T_V_ set .User Interface: For men . To the {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Okay .IndustrialDesigner: And , that's it . I think we should use a F_P_G_A_ for {vocalsound} for the functionalities which is easy to to tUser Interface: Mm . What is F_P_G_A_ ?Industrial Designer: It's field programmable uhsomething array .Marketing: {vocalsound} Gateway arrays .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .Marketing: It's a field programmable gateway arrays .User Interface: So why's it {disfmarker} how is it differentfrom the Bluetooth ?Industrial Designer: Well , uh a F_P_G_A_ is just a chip you can uh you can {gap} pr programme it uh wi with wh whatever you want .User Interface: Yeah . Programme it .Marketing: Yeah {gap}.User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: And uh well the Bluetooth chip is just responsible to uh make the communication uh between uh the two devices .User Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound} Uh {disfmarker} So thisare the {disfmarker} they have to work together ? Or ? Do they have to work together or two separate choice {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: No . Well , th the F_P_G_A_ will produce the the data to send .UserInterface: Okay .Marketing: Or it's something like {disfmarker} isn't hardware the first one ? And the second one is for the software .User Interface: Is the is the software par alri okay .Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah to run th to make it run .User Interface: Okay , okay .Marketing: That's it .User Interface: So you can control {gap} if you want , right ?Industrial Designer: Yeah {vocalsound} .Marketing: No.Industrial Designer: Alright and that's it for the working design .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So if you have any questions ?User Interface: Mm .Marketing: Okay , and how about the battery power? Uh you mean that battery would be somewhere there and the remote contro the power to the battery comes through infrared ?Industrial Designer: Uh no no no no , I think uh we have uh to to uh have uh embeddeduh b batteries in in the {disfmarker}Project Manager: {gap} .Marketing: Into the {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: yeah into the t .Marketing: more compact and uh {disfmarker} okay , {gap}Industrial Designer: Yeah, yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: And uh I I don't think it will need um {vocalsound} very uh much power to make it run , so {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} Mm . Mm .Marketing:Yeah , yeah . Okay .User Interface: Mm . You can put it on the charger when uh you when you don't need to use it .Industrial Designer: Yeah . It's a good idea .Marketing: Yeah , that's right .User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Having a charger rather than putting the battery cells always .User Interface: Yeah , yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: People don't like it to have to buy the batteries when they run out .UserInterface: Yeah . Mm . Uh {disfmarker} mm .Marketing: We just make a small chargerUser Interface: Y yeah , yeah .Marketing: and put it {disfmarker}Project Manager: You can i yeah .User Interface: Because you areusing because you are using Bluetooth , if some people have P_D_A_ they can use their P_D_A_ to control the T_V_ if they want to , right ?Industrial Designer: That's a good idea .Marketing: {vocalsound}ProjectManager: MaIndustrial Designer: Also , but but {vocalsound} I I I think uh the the goal is to sell our remote {vocalsound} control .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} I dunno .{vocalsound}Marketing: Bu {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah we can change the b {gap} .Marketing: Our remote ,Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: we do not want to make it P_D_A_ . {vocalsound}UserInterface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} S {vocalsound} okay , so charger for {gap} is the {gap} .Project Manager: Um .User Interface: {vocalsound} So is mine .Project Manager: It's mine .Participant one , no ?User Interface: Oh . Yeah , this your {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm . Oh we have {gap} so let's move to to user interface design {gap} .User Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound} So you can openuh {vocalsound}Project Manager: Participant {disfmarker}User Interface: three . Yeah . {vocalsound} So {disfmarker} So I'm working on the technical functions design . {gap} can you show the next slide . So the thepurpose is to to find uh the important questions to ask is what effect should the apparatus have . So {vocalsound} so I found on a webs on the internetProject Manager: {vocalsound} During the weekend .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} {disfmarker} yeah . {vocalsound} I spent a lot of time searching {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: That's good . {vocalsound}UserInterface: and uh and I found that uh the function of remote control is to send messages to television set .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface:{vocalsound} For example switch on , switch off , switch the next channel and so on and so on .Marketing: GUser Interface: So I found two very good prototypes for {vocalsound} for this interface from ourcompetitorsIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: so can you {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: This are usual functionality {gap} .User Interface: Yeah , yeah ,yeah . Ours is a bit uh different . So these are two example . One is from {vocalsound} {gap} the other one is from , yeah , uh engineering centr yeah .Project Manager: Tasks .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}UserInterface: This is the most competing prototypes I've found {vocalsound} .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: But then uh loo but then I found if you look at {disfmarker} you see on the left one there aretoo many buttons {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: And they are small {gap} .User Interface: Yeah . O on the right I tried to play with {vocalsound} the problem is that uh if I havehundred channels I have uh I have to choo press the other button to choose the hundred channels and I have to compose the numberIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .User Interface: so it's very lousy .ProjectManager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: {vocalsound} So you {vocalsound} so you move to the next the next one .Industrial Designer: Of course .User Interface: Yeah , so I talk about the problem . And then I I look at theuser manual they are a hundred pages thick , so we don't want that .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound} So I propose the easy to use uh prototype . You can navigate on T_V_ screen and we can{gap} the user's preference and we need to have the T_V_ connected to internet so we end {disfmarker} in order to access the T_V_ programmes by X_M_L_ and we need some {disfmarker} to do some preprocessing. From the technical aspect , the processing should be done on the T_V_ set than on the {vocalsound} on the remote controller , right ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} And then we{disfmarker} the speech recognition as uh Harry says we may just put in {disfmarker} we may K_I_V_ .Project Manager: What do you mean by the pa pa processing will be done on the T_V_User Interface: Yeah , allthe processing is done {disfmarker} the T_V_ is a compu has some processing power the {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Project Manager: than the {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} So we have to tProjectManager: So we should have specific T_V_ ? Or ? We can use this .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: We have to sell a T_V_ with the remote control too . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah , we don't{vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah because {disfmarker} {vocalsound} are you just wondering what controller {disfmarker} okay .Project Manager: Yeah , I think so. J j just the remote control .Marketing: Yeah , not the T_V_s .Industrial Designer: I think there there is there is al there there is a a technology like show view who is already available on most of the T_V_ set onrecorders or thing like thatUser Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: and we can try t to get this information on to the remote control to to do the processing on the remote control because {disfmarker}User Interface:Okay .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound} Okay .Marketing: Yeah , that's right .Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: So i the processing on on the remote controller {disfmarker}Project Manager:Yeah ,User Interface: so it can u be used in any T_V_ , any conventional T_V_ sets ?Project Manager: we {gap} . Yeah .User Interface: Mm . Okay . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Speech recognition .User Interface: Nyeah , that's all . The next one ? So I come up with a simple design , just keep the v navigation buttons . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yes , that's a good idea , I think .Project Manager: Keep thenavigationIndustrial Designer: We d we don't we we don't need really much buttons to {disfmarker} i if we have a screen to navigate on on the T_V_ so uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Project Manager: but{disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Well , f four five buttons , it's sufficient .User Interface: Yeah . Mm .Industrial Designer: It's easy to build ,User Interface:{vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: it does not consume much power . {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah , that's right .Project Manager: {gap} .User Interface: {vocalsound} Okay , that's all .{vocalsound}Marketing: Oh , but you have a catch there , um assume that um if you want to go to {disfmarker} if you are watching channel two and if you want to go to channel ninety nine , then {vocalsound} .UserInterface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Well , then y you you go to the main menu and uh you have uh go to channelUser Interface: Mm .Industrial Designer: and then uh you {gap} can {disfmarker}UserInterface: Mm . No , because you choose by channel , so {disfmarker} you choose by T_V_ programIndustrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Uh-huh huh huh huh .Industrial Designer: Maybe you {disfmarker}UserInterface: so you don't have hundred channels to choose from . If you go by channel , you don't have to do that .Industrial Designer: {gap} .Marketing: Mm-hmm hmm hmm .Industrial Designer: {gap} but uh I I thinki i {gap} if you if you want to to make uh {disfmarker} well a a big jump {vocalsound} {gap} but uh well you you have to to have a a a device when you could you could {disfmarker}Marketing: But{disfmarker}Project Manager: So you are {disfmarker}User Interface: Ah . Ah , a big jump .Marketing: Yeah then yeah that's right .User Interface: A mouse or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Well , not a mouse butuh something that that says more clearly that uh right , left , up , down ,User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: well , the to have the ability to to to write something to the navigator , maybe directly , or{disfmarker}Marketing: Mm hmm hmm . Okay .Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: So ,Marketing: Okay .User Interface: Mm . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: we can think of buttons like in the telephone tosend messages or things like that .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: How the {gap} this remote ?Industrial Designer: But we'll see . {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh it's gonna be small .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah , of course {vocalsound} small .User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Yeah . So it'll beep if you wanna find itMarketing: {vocalsound} {gap} too small that it goes under thesofa and we can't find it . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: you just uh shout {disfmarker} y h just {disfmarker} it just has to re respond to you when you look for the device .Marketing: Yeah,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: that's {gap} .User Interface: {vocalsound} I dunno how bu {vocalsound}Marketing: {gap} just {gap} give it a name and we call him .User Interface: {vocalsound} And{gap} responds to you , and {gap} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah , that's right . Yeah , that's right .Industrial Designer: Okay , so uh next presentation {disfmarker}{vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Participant four . So Harry .Marketing: Okay , after having the inputs from {vocalsound} industrial design and user interface , I think most of the points whichI want to are already covered here .Industrial Designer: Mm . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: And to find the most interesting features what the users would be interested , then what we havedone is we have put a feedback forms in all the magazines , and the users send the feedbacks , and based on that {disfmarker} These are the findings which we got and {disfmarker} yeah adding of a speech interfaceis always good for a T_V_ remote but the technology {disfmarker} We already know that {disfmarker} as discussed earlier {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Well I I think it will be a , yes , a bit complicated to um makea speech recognisers runs on the small uh tsUser Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: An {vocalsound} it does {gap} how feasible it is .User Interface: I- {vocalsound} mm .But I think if you {gap} to recognise numbers it's a well-studied problem . I if you just recognise uh numbers is a limited {disfmarker} you have limited vocabulary {disfmarker}Marketing: Oh we can put an limitedvocabulary as in the mobile phones .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: We just have the {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm .Industrial Designer: And this can allow to choose the the program , for instance without uhadding uh buttonsUser Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: so it's a good idea .Marketing: {gap} it's not going to take much space also . It's going to be very slim .User Interface: Mm . Mm .Marketing: And next onewas the size of the remote control . It has to be of course a very slim and small one . And of course most of the people are interested in if it's less expensive ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Mm .Marketing:so this is an important criteria here is {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} But {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Project Manager: But do you think what they sug suggested s possibility {gap} .User Interface:{vocalsound} Mm .Marketing: I mean we have to look for a trade-off .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: The features and the cost .User Interface: {vocalsound} I no {disfmarker} I I think that uh i if we go for qualitypeople may tolerate for high quality and of course comes with uh reasonable cost .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Maybe not less , butthey may be willing to pay little bit more for comfort ,Marketing: Little bit more if it's with extra features .Project Manager: It {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: yeah , extrafeatures .Industrial Designer: Yeah , s s speech is a important extra feature I think {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay .User Interface: Mm . {vocalsound} Yeah .Marketing: Yeah , yeah . That's right .Project Manager: But isit useful or not u I don't know .Industrial Designer: Well , uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Project Manager: There is {gap} in the {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing: I mean , for a lazy guys they could say nine andthe nine channel comes .User Interface: Mm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Or they say movie name {disfmarker} or I don't go for movie names but only for the numbers on the channel , or volume up ,volume down , brightness , contrast .User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: Mm .Marketing: So , I think this should be a good idea , to put this features . And the fourth one was the teletext invarious languages .Industrial Designer: we we just have to find a mean how to to add a m a a a microphone or uh well {disfmarker} yes a microphone into the the remote control , so {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm , Ithink {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I {disfmarker} well {disfmarker}Project Manager: I think i {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: it will be alright . {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} If it's necessary can {disfmarker} you can do that .User Interface: What is the teletext ? Mm .Project Manager: We can integrate small microphone in the remoteIndustrial"}
{"doc_id":"doc_96","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Is everyone ready to start ?Industrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yes .Project Manager: Okay . Great . Well , welcome to the third meeting ofconceptual design . I'll just get the PowerPoint presentation up and running . Okay . Um , on the agenda for this , um , for this particular meeting , we'll have your three presentations on what you've done since our lastmeeting , after we came up with um some general ideas of our design . And , um , then we have to make some key decisions on , on our remote control concept , and how we're gonna make it , what uh materials we'regonna use , and that sort of thing .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: The meeting will be forty minutes long .Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: And um we will once again have Poppy as ourfirst presenter .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay .Project Manager: Alright , and I will switch up PowerPoint .Industrial Designer: Thank you .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: Should be just loading .{vocalsound} Okay . Oh , although I can't see it on my screen . That says go here . Okay . I've been doing some research into the different components that we could use , um what's available to us f to actually makethe remote control . Um , first of all we have to look at how the remote control is actually made , and what is it happens inside the casing , which is more your field . Um , thes main internal feature is a circuit board ,which contains all the elec electronics and also the contacts with the power source .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Which is not necessarily a battery , as we're about to see . Um , there are severalcomponents of , um , the circuit board that we need to consider , where we'll be getting them from , what they'll be made of . Um , including the integrated circuit , which is also known as the chip . Which is where allthe main information is uh contained . Um , diodes , transistors , resonators , resistors , and capacit capacitors all need to be considered as well . Um , and all their positioning in the circuit .Project Manager: Um{disfmarker} Are they all included , like mandatorily , or r are these different options ?Industrial Designer: Uh , these , they're all different options , they're all separate , apart from the chip , which we will probabledecide whether we buy a simple , a regular , advanced .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: We can go into that later . Um , all the other things are individual components that we'd have to get in separately ,and work out the most , like , effective um circuit , including all the wires and everything like that . And the L_E_D_ of course , that's a light emitting diode . So , we could , so we've got flex flexibility with colours andthings , with that as well .Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: Okay , there are lots of different possibilities for the energy source . We could use a basic battery , but that brings with it , like they need to berecharged and the bulk , the size of it as well . And they're not so great to dispose of , environmentally . {vocalsound} There's a hand-powered dynamo which is a sort of thing that was used for torches fifty years ago .A bit out of date . Kinetic energy is something that's been recently developed .Project Manager: Um {disfmarker} What is a hand-powered dynamo ?Industrial Designer: Um , where you manually charge up the power.Project Manager: Just every , every once in a while ?Industrial Designer: Like you wind up something .Project Manager: Just every once in a while or constantly ?Industrial Designer: Sorry ? Yeah . Every once in a whileI thinkProject Manager: Alright . It'd be kind of strange to always be cranking it I think .Industrial Designer: . But it's {disfmarker} Yeah . It would be like going a step back in time .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah.Industrial Designer: I don't think it would really be with kind of cutting edge technology .Project Manager: No . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Whereas kinetic energy is a new idea that'sbeing used by some watches and other devices , where you just shake the device and it gives it power . I mean , the kinetic energy is transformed into power to make the circuit work . Um , or there's solar power ,which we've been considering inside a building , which is where it's gonna be used , might not be quite so useful .Project Manager: Right .Industrial Designer: But , good to look into , renewable energy , always the way. Um , lots of considerations for the case , like what sort of shape it would be , curved or flat . That's got a lot to do with the ergonomics . Like how it's comfortable and s sits in the hand . We don't want something that'shuge and you can't pick up . Or too small . Or too slidy . I know I've had a remote control before which you couldn't tell which was the front and the back ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: 'cause it hadso many buttons on , and the shape was so symmetrical that I'd be pressing like a volume button instead of the on button .Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: Because you can't really see which way round it is .ProjectManager: Right .Industrial Designer: Um , we also can choose what materials {disfmarker} um , the {disfmarker} we could use metal , we could use rubber which might be more um ideal for the anti-R_S_I_ . It's likethe same sort of rubber that's used in stress balls and things like that , so it's very like soft , not so stressful on your hands .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Wood .Project Manager:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Um , again , stepping back in time again there .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I don't think that's quite up to date with what we're looking for here .Project Manager:Yeah .Industrial Designer: Um , titanium is not gonna be possible , even though it just it beyond our budget really . But , would've been maybe for future projects . Um right our choice for buttons as well . We'vedeveloped some {disfmarker} we've got some good advances in technology , with our research team have found some uh new multiple um option scroll buttons . I think that was brought up for , um , {disfmarker}they're basically quite a flexible design , modern , you don't have to use individual buttons . You can just slide up and down . I'm sure we're all quite familiar with those on mobiles or computer laptop pads .ProjectManager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Um one thing with the scroll buttons though . It , it {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: we would have to have an L_C_D_umIndustrial Designer: Yeah . That's true .Project Manager: display , and the glow in the dark thing might be difficult .Industrial Designer: And that would lead to an advanced {disfmarker} yeah . If we have{disfmarker} yeah . We're going on to that later with the advanc with the L_C_D_ that means we'd need a really advanced chip .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: And it's unlikely that that's gonna be in ourbudget .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Um , also we've got the integrated pushbutton , which is what we're most familiar with . It's the most straightforward . But you can in like incorporate that with a scrollbutton as well . {gap} . Got decisions to make there . And this is what I was just saying before . Linked in the different {disfmarker} depends on what type of buttons we have and the inputs . Um simple would go withthe pushbutton . Um , regular you could link with the scroll button . And the advanced we'd have to go with a L_C_D_ s display .Project Manager: Right .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} My personal preferences ? Ithink we could go for the kinetic energy source . I don't , I think that's quite um an advanced kind of technology . It's not been seen before , so it could be quite a , a novelty factor , attractive as well . And also energysaving 'cause you're producing the energy , you don't need an external sort of battery supply or solar panels . You just give it a shake .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Sounds brilliant to me.Project Manager: Uh .Industrial Designer: Rubber casing I thing would probably the best , if we're going for the anti-R_S_I_ and like more choice with um aesthetics . Like it could be pretty much any colour we want .Um , and gives you , yeah , more flexibility there . And probably the regular chip as opposed to the simple ,Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: then we could possibly have the scroll and the push , but noL_C_D_ , 'cause we probably can't afford that one .Project Manager: Yeah . Um , one concern with the rubber casing is that it would be rubber encapsulating all of these {vocalsound} chips and diodes and delicatetechnology asIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: like as the exterior . This is the one thing that's protecting its innards .Industrial Designer: I think that would , uh there would be an in sort of more internalcasing . And the rubber would just be the , what's in contact with the human .Project Manager: Yeah . Another thing is it might be more difficult {disfmarker} if it's a rubber exterior {gap} talking about putting oninterchangeable plates .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: Um , is it {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: I don't see how a like a rubber plate going ontop it would stay there . Like if it was sort of like a clip-on plastic plate . It would work that way .Industrial Designer: Maybe if the , um , if it was just kind of a , more of a rubber coating which was on to a case .UserInterface: WIndustrial Designer: So , it was kind of , the whole thing would be removable .User Interface: Like plastic with rubber , kind of on topIndustrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer:Like {disfmarker} I can't think of what .User Interface: Well , there's , there is a certain phone that has like a rubber casing ,Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Or like an {disfmarker}User Interface: blike a Nokia it is .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: you can get sort of outer casing for iPods and something , that's just {disfmarker} it's protective as well .User Interface: It's {disfmarker} yeah .ProjectManager: Yeah .Marketing: Like the skin ?Industrial Designer: It , it stops it , I mean ,Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: it would reduce the impact if it was dropped or something , as well , 'cause it wouldn'tdamage itself so easily .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Alright . So maybe the {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I think i maybe a mixture of both there , maybe .Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: So the actual remote would be hard plastic and the casings rubber .Industrial Designer: And then {disfmarker} yeah . Yeah .User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: And the buttons obviously are rubber .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound}ProjectManager: That sounds good . I , um , is it possible to put designs onto this type of rubber ?Industrial Designer: As far as I know . It should be .Project Manager: Okay ,Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: we'lljust say yeah . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yes , just why not .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Yeah , yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Alright . I like the kinetic energysource idea .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Um , I don't know when people will , um , be moving a remote around a lot .Industrial Designer: I thought that was {disfmarker}Project Manager: But I thinkthat it's worth it , kinetety , kinetic umUser Interface: Yeah , thaMarketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: energy source . It could make an we could have any kind of style .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Itwouldn't be as heavy or bulky , and {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah . Just for environmental reasons .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: I guess it's a bitscary 'cause it hasn't been done before .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: So it seems {disfmarker} we'd have to do more research on it .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Or I dunno if you could have a batterypack .Industrial Designer: Like as a backup for something .User Interface: Backup . Yeah .Marketing: Yeah so there's there is a one battery , because most remotes use two batteries I believe .Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: So , if it was running off of one battery as a {disfmarker}User Interface: That would be good yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Some alternative just in case something went wrong.Marketing: Right .User Interface: Maybe we could {disfmarker} you were saying about um solar power ma maybe not working indoors , but a lot of calculators , yeah , have solar power .Industrial Designer: That's true. I just thought of that {gap} .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah . Yeah .User Interface: So maybe that could be incorporated as {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: May maybe thatcould be the backup .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Instead of a battery .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Like solar backup .Marketing: Although it needs some light , doesn't it ?IndustrialDesigner: Yeah . I supposeProject Manager: Yeah , you can watch a T_V_ in the dark then .User Interface: Do , do those calculators {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: s but some {disfmarker}Marketing: So , if we'redoing {disfmarker}User Interface: yeah .Marketing: yeah . If we're {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: But thing is , it's not {disfmarker} you don't need the solar all the time .User Interface: I don't know how it works.Industrial Designer: It can be stored . It can be like {disfmarker} you can have the solar energy and then it can store that energy and use it .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: It just needs tobe in light for a certain amount of time per day .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Like a few hours a day . {gap} .Project Manager: I think that might be a little impractical though.Marketing: Yeah . I think sometimes it's just shoved under , under a cushion ,Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: and {disfmarker} yeah .Industrial Designer: That's true . It could easily {disfmarker}User Interface:Yeah .Project Manager: Like people don't wanna have to worry about that .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: I suppose it would be really annoying if you get tothink , oh no , I forgot to charge my remote today .User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Like if the kinetic thing , I think what's best about that is that it's instantenergy .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: You don't have to , you know , you can shake it a few times , or whatever .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: And itworks .Project Manager: Or just like pick it up when you're gonna use it .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Instead of you don't have to like make sure it's in the right place to charge and {gap} .User Interface: Yeah , Isuppose .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Alright . Cool .Industrial Designer: K okay .Project Manager: 'S that the end of your presentation .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager:Alright .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Thank you .Industrial Designer: There we go .User Interface: Thanks . Oh . {vocalsound} It's not on my screen .Industrial Designer: {gap} it wasn't on mine either .UserInterface: Why ? {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I don't know why . I think , I just , I just used the mouse on there .User Interface: You don't know why ? Oh okay . Is it that one ?Project Manager: Yeah . That's um{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: Um , I'm just gonna go through the interface concept with yous now . Uh , first of all I'll explain what a user interface is . It's the aspects of a computer systemwhich can be seen or otherwise perceived , for example , heard or felt maybe , or {vocalsound} by the human user . And it's also the commands that the user uses to control its operation and to input data . Um , thereare two types of user interfaces . There's the graphical user interface , which emphasises the use of pictures for output and a pointing device , for example a mouse for input control . So that's sort of like the scroll thingwe were talking about .Project Manager: Oh . Okay . Yeah .User Interface: Yeah . I'm not really sure about the pictures that {disfmarker} maybe that's on an L_C_D_ screen .Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: Ormaybe it's the the buttons or pictures or something . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Hmm .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Do you think it's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah ,'cause {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So I suppose sometime {disfmarker}Project Manager: I'm sorry ?Industrial Designer: after you . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um , becausecommand interface requires you to type textual commands and input at a keyboard , so the numbers are sort of like a keyboard . You're pressing the numbers for , um , for what you want .User Interface: Yeah . Yeah.Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: So you must , for the graphical user you must need some kind of presentation for the graphics .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I s I suppose where um mm on some buttonsyou would have {disfmarker} like the power would be s some kind of symbol .User Interface: Like an L_C_D_ screen .Industrial Designer: And if you wanted to go onto teletext or ,User Interface: Yeah .IndustrialDesigner: I know we're not having that , but I mean a similar thing ,User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: you , they have {disfmarker} there's a like little picture with a screen with lines across it , which{disfmarker} I suppose it's that sort of thing like the , the symbol on the button .User Interface: Yeah . Yeah .Industrial Designer: But if we're having a simplified display anyway , w that , we probably won't have tofocus so much on that .Project Manager: Yeah , we'll be doing {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: It'll be more the on the numbers and the volume .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah . It'd be more a commandinterface , and then {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I suppose we need to think of symbols for like the volume , display , and stuff like that .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: So it's just drafgraphical for the pointing aspect ?Industrial Designer: I {disfmarker}Marketing: The infrared is like , that's considered a {disfmarker}Project Manager: Hmm ?User Interface: No I think it's to do with the actual symbolsthat are on the , that's on the buttons of the remote control , and perMarketing: Okay . So when it says pointing device that doesn't include {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: For inpUser Interface: Well it could be a weescroller thing , and something could come up on the screen .Project Manager: Yeah . I think they're talking about L_C_D_ type things .Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: Okay .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: But um I think we're gonna go with the command interface anyway ,Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: to make it more simplistic . But the , we could incorporate some ofthe graphical user um points ,Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: as in {disfmarker} just to make it m um nicer to look at maybe . {vocalsound}Project Manager: What do you mean ?User Interface: Like{vocalsound} I can't think of an example , but {disfmarker} Sort of like little pictures rather than {disfmarker}Project Manager: Oh yeah , like how the buttons {disfmarker}User Interface: Like a little sound . Insteadof saying volume , like a little speaker or something .Project Manager: Yeah , as a button though .User Interface: Yeah , something yMarketing: Mm .Project Manager: So , it's a keyboard in the shape of it , right ?UserInterface: Yeah m perha yeah . Yeah . Maybe .Project Manager: Okay . Yeah . I like that idea .User Interface: Um , the co uh {disfmarker} we've decided that the command interface would be the most useful for aremote control . As it would be less complicated , and the controls would be more user-friendly . Um , the remote control would be cheaper to design , so that we'd have more money in the budget to , um , target thedesign area of the interface . You know , make it more trendy and original . We'll have more money if we keep it simple .Project Manager: Yeah . I'm sure i like kinetic energy would probably dip into the budget . A bitmore too , yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah . Seeing as it's quite a new technology . Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} We , we also have to keep in mind when we're designing our , um"}
{"doc_id":"doc_97","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Uh it fell off . One , two , three , four , yeah , we're ready . Okay . Welcome to this second meeting . Um it's now quarter after twelve and we're given forty minutes um for this meeting . This is ameeting on functional design . Um and I wanna welcome you all and thank you all for doing some research in between . Um I did {disfmarker} took the minutes from the first meeting and I'll show them to you in amoment . Um I know each of you have a presentation and um in thinking about the forty minutes , I thought it would take only like three minutes for the previous minutes , um each of you having about seven minutesor maybe a little more , maybe a little less for your pre presentations and a little discussion , because there's {disfmarker} I happen to have been told there were some new project requirements and we have to makesome uh decision on what functions it will have . Okay ? Is this ap everybody agree with this ?Industrial Designer: Oops .User Interface: Yes .Marketing: Yes .Project Manager: Okay . Um and after the meeting there'llbe things to be done and as you can see it says we get to get lunch , um and then some more individual work and then putting minutes away and individual actions . {vocalsound} Um but uh now for the minutes of thefirst meeting . And go to that one . Um as you can see it was this earlier today . Um Kate , Steph , Sarah and myself in our four capacities were present . I opened the meeting , the product was developed uh andreviewed , and we talked about the financial end of it . Um and it had some implications , um the four million sales target and new ideas of not too many buttons , bright colours and some of the influence of theJapanese . And we closed early so you could then proceed with your research and getting your reports together for tod this meeting {vocalsound} Anybody have any questions on those minutes ? Are they complete ,did they discuss everything that we covered last time ? 'Kay .Industrial Designer: Uh I think so ,Project Manager: Did I miss something ?Industrial Designer: we we we talked about the the individual roles that we eachhad as well .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Yeah . I'm afraid I incorporated {vocalsound} that when I said who was present , but {disfmarker} yes , we did ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay .ProjectManager: and we did a little bit of uh team building of uh of making the pictures ,Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay , I accept the minutes .Project Manager: but I didn't think those were appropriate to the minutesnecessarily . So um as a group I think we've {disfmarker} are {disfmarker} they're accepting the minutes . And uh {disfmarker} okay .Marketing: Is that what we're supposed to say ?Project Manager: Yeah .UserInterface: Yeah , I do .Project Manager: Good . Um , then we'll move to the three presentations . Okay ?Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Okay . Mm we need to move this . Who wants to go f first ? {vocalsound}That's as far as it goes .User Interface: Uh not really meant to touch those microphones . Oh it doesn't have any on , does it ? That's fine .Marketing: Excellent , thank you .Industrial Designer: Oy , big loop under thetable .Project Manager: She said we didn't need to screw it in .Marketing: Okay . Okay , that looks good .Project Manager: It's doing its thing . There we are .Marketing: Alright . Thank you very much . Um . One of thethe biggest issues I found about um from last meeting was the fact that we need to sell four million of these um remote controls and I think that this is an opportunity to really take Real Reaction in the direction of ofsimilar {disfmarker} of handheld tools that have been used and are used by many of us and to kind of bring the remote control into the si same realm as an accessible um useful electronic device , as opposed tosomething that is lost in the couch and what have you . So um my main goal here is to re-envision the remote control in in this context and to think about menu functionality and current technology and the fact that itcould be interactive with other tools . Um some of the research uh in the market has shown that people really are not happy with remote controls as they are now , and um that means we do need to make somedecisions about what what keys or or buttons on the on the remote control to perhaps keep and and what ones to discard . And if we devote some energy into this , I think the um recent productions of Real Reaction ,the I go everywhere power and the high definition D_V_D_ players {disfmarker} although it makes immediate sense to {vocalsound} have our remote control interact with these , I think we can also use this as aplatform to make it interact with other tools . And um in fact I think the high definition D_V_D_ players and all of this will come along in the uh {disfmarker} will only benefit from the positive feedback {vocalsound}from our well designed tool . So again , most uh users really dislike the current look and feel of remote controls . Um {vocalsound} fifty percent {disfmarker} I think of all these uh numbers the most important is fiftypercent of user say they only use ten percent of the buttons . And eighty percent of users , and if we think about this {vocalsound} there are a lot of uh television , D_V_D_ , stereo remote control users out there ,eighty percent would spend more money on a remote control that looks fancy .Industrial Designer: Could {disfmarker} can I ask where these figures come from , is this market research we've {disfmarker}Marketing:Um it was market research and there were a hundred people in the room , so eighty out of a hundred said they would spend more money .Project Manager: Now in between , as the Project Manager , they sent me anemail from the powers that beIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: um that teletext is outdated umMarketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: and the internet is coming in as important , but that they want thisremote control to only be for T_V_ um with incorporating the corporate image , colour and slogan .Marketing: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound} Well I think we can {disfmarker} I I think we can really focus on this remote andand again bring the Real Reaction um brand in in and and get some positive marketing for our other tools , even if we directly don't um advertise {vocalsound} for the I go everywhere line .Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: So an interesting um element was the would you pay more for speech recognition question . So these market research uh uh questionnaires {vocalsound} looked into your your uh concern abouttechnologyProject Manager: Hmm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: and s specifically wanted to find out information about speech recognition .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Now the early adopters ,those of us who grew up with technology and uh luck lucky for us have the uh cash to to pay for it , the young age group without the mortgages and responsibilities , ninety one percent of them {vocalsound} would paymore for speech recognition in a remote control . Very interesting , I I leave this up to the group to decide if we wanna use this uh if {disfmarker} and you know , the the designers ,Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: butninety one percent , fifteen to twenty five {disfmarker}Project Manager: Is that a large enough target market to target it ?Marketing: Well , I I I think {disfmarker} especially in terms of growth , I think this would be avery smart group to target . I mean s three quarters of the next age group , twenty five to thirty five are interested , and uh with the technologies improving , if we can get these uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Inreal numbers , does the ninety one percent and the seventy six percent translate to ex in excess of the four million ?Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah . To {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Um yes .Project Manager: Or eightmillion .Marketing: Yes . But would you pay more and does it work and is it approachable and and did I know that it was it was an {disfmarker}Project Manager: Hmm .Marketing: that's a that's a very good question.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah .Industrial Designer: Um {disfmarker}Marketing: I don't know if speech recognition should be um should be included ,Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: but I think it's aninteresting {disfmarker} I think that maybe shows more about uh being open to technology .Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: Uh it definitely needs uh a lot more researchMarketing: Shall I go back ?UserInterface: on like how much more it would be and any , you know , existing examples ,Marketing: Yeah , yeah .User Interface: and what reactions to them have been , and that sort of thing .Marketing: Yeah .IndustrialDesigner: How d I'm wondering how how ou how our target price compares with the the typical price of these things . I expect an Industrial Designer should know that , but if we're aiming to to build this thing fortwelve Euros fifty , um is that a lot or a little ?Marketing: Exactly . I mean I I I uh did not receive any information on that , but I think the competition , sussing out what other people are doing and what's in the pipelineis very very important , because um there is a question about do you want an L_C_D_ screen and and that wasn't responded to , but uh some of the larger remotes do have screens where you can navigate , you know ,so it turns into something {disfmarker} uh perhaps you all have seen uh the Osbournes where Ozzy Osbourne is is attempting to manage his super entertainment system with something that looks like a uh a small tray.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Sh surely he's in the wrong age group .Marketing: You know ,Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: it's {disfmarker} I a and I think , you know{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: He must be w one of a s small population . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} No , no ,Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: you {disfmarker} Kate , you're exactly right there .{vocalsound} But I think the key is to get the early adopters , people who are familiar with technology and and uh they'll be {disfmarker}Project Manager: But we're not looking at whether they're early adopters on thatscreen ,Marketing: Uh , mm .Project Manager: that's looking at age groups .Marketing: Exactly . I {vocalsound} yes , and I'm making and I'm making the the uh uh leap that people who are familiar {disfmarker}younger people are l are more familiar with technology than than older people . Or comfortable ,Project Manager: Leap . {vocalsound} Hmm . Mm .Marketing: you know , um so {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay ,you had the other power channel .Marketing: I think the most important thing is an attractive streamlined remote control and to be extraordinarily reductionist , power , channel , volume and everything else is is uh upto the designers . {vocalsound} And this is this is also supported by the market research .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound} Thank you . That's my contribution .Project Manager: Alright . And we'll turnto the next presentation . I think she said we don't need to screw it in , just stick it in . And then press , what ? F F_N_ and F_ eight . Next to the control button on the bottom , and then F_ eight at the top .UserInterface: Yeah , press them .Project Manager: And then w be patient . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah , here we go .Project Manager: Tada .Industrial Designer: And if you want it to go into slide show mode , it'sthat little button there .User Interface: Can I not just uh do each one in order ?Industrial Designer: I you can if you like , it it {disfmarker} that that just sets it up to do a p a pProject Manager: There we are . Yay .UserInterface: That ?Industrial Designer: no that one , that one there .User Interface: That ?Industrial Designer: Left , left a bit , left a bit , that one , yep .User Interface: That ? Right , technical functions design . Uh well Ithink first off , basically I do agree with what Sarah has defined as as uh your personal preferences,yeah . I think we need uh a more streamlined volume with no extraneous functions . So my method was to look at theexisting remotes and what functions they have . And what we all need to discuss is whether we want these functions uh pretty much the same as what existing remotes have . If we can build on this with the speechrecognition , that's not something I'd thought about at all , but it's also something we can discuss .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Um and and I presume we can miss out the functions really to to a video orD_V_D_ remote control , if this is only gonna be a , you know , satellite , cable , T_V_ remote control .Project Manager: T_V_ only .User Interface: So these are two models of existing remote controls . Uh the one onthe left seems to be a fairly uh standard universal remote control .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Ugh .User Interface: It has fast-forward , stop , play , all relating to movies . It also has {disfmarker} seems to havechannel up and channel down , which is which is more what you'd expect from a , you know , like a Sky or cable remote controlProject Manager: Hmm .User Interface: where you've got hundreds of channels instead ofa merely terrestrial one . Uh but I think we should be looking more along the lines of the one on the right , which has {disfmarker} it also has play , stop and pause and everything , I don't think we need them at all . Ithink we just need channel selection , volume up , volume down and I think an an enter function where you can access {disfmarker} it's not like teletext , but along the same lines , access things on the screen . Uh notrelated to the internet one that you mentioned , because that'd be far outside our budget and what we want this to do .Project Manager: Mm . And exceed the requirements they're expecting of us .User Interface: So itreally exceed the requirements , 'cause the requirements really are just {disfmarker} want to be able to change channels and functions , which is more a text on the screen thing than uh than actual buttonsProjectManager: Okay .User Interface: o I was thinking something {disfmarker} some smooth , sleek , little remote control with big user-friendly buttons and uh a menu that you can access .Project Manager: Alright .UserInterface: Uh but then I do think we need to discuss the speech um recognition possibility .Project Manager: Okay . Any uh thing else you wanna add ?User Interface: No .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: But wecould go back to the pictures of the {disfmarker} uh , what're they called ? The pictures of the remote controls and possibly discuss what we think about them ,Marketing: Or if {disfmarker}User Interface: but{vocalsound} maybe should hear what Kate has to say first .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah . Let's hear what Kate has to say .User Interface: Okay then .Marketing: Maybe afterwards we could do a uhwhiteboard with that {disfmarker} your {disfmarker} the one on the right as a as a basis .Project Manager: Hmm .Marketing: Whiteboard session .Project Manager: I think the white {disfmarker} that one on the rightis , as well as less cluttered , {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Definitely less cluttered and {disfmarker} I mean but still it's {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's thereUser Interface:SorryProject Manager: but it's {disfmarker}User Interface: I was just {disfmarker} I'll just uh resume something else I was gonna say .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: The the style of these is terrible .ProjectManager: Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound} I I I really think we need to uh not only possibly even materials , like the type of plastic used , but everything including size and shape of buttons , positioning of buttons ,the actual shape of the hand-held device , colours , just every e yeah , everything to do with this has to be revolutionised . {vocalsound}Marketing: The ergonomics , the way it fits in your {disfmarker}Project Manager:Hmm .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: But {disfmarker}Project Manager: {gap}User Interface: So that's that for now .Industrial Designer: Cheers . Mm , I haven't actually got a display on my screen .Project Manager:Okay .Industrial Designer: Still , I'll do without that . Okay um , now I wanna bring us down to earth again I'm afraid and talk about the actual practicalities of how the thing needs to work . {vocalsound} Um oh and thisis the methodology I used in preparing for this meeting . Um basically I've been doing a little bit of web-based research , {vocalsound} and if I had a design team , I would've been discussing my ideas with 'em . But thethe net result is that I've come up with a first cut for the working design that I'd like to discuss with you . So , let's go back to what the basic function of a remote control is . It's for sending a message , um typically umvia infrared . {vocalsound} And the the basic components we've got to build in for our twelve Euros fifty are um an energy source , the user interface and {disfmarker} which will um in incorporate um an integratedcircuit that actually composes the message um based on what the {disfmarker} which buttons the user presses , we turn that into a message , um and then we need a sending mechanism to send it to the receiver .Now I would have hoped {disfmarker} I think that's my only slide actually , yeah . I would have have hoped to um do you a pretty PowerPoint slide of um my first cut design , but unfortunately the technology defeatedme , so if you'll bear with me I'll do it on the whiteboard . {vocalsound} So we want an energy source which is there . And we've got to think about what that might be .Project Manager: Hmm-mm .Industrial Designer:Uh we obviously don't want wires on this thing . Uh typically it would be a battery , but I'm open to suggestions . {vocalsound} Um and then we have the the user interface . Oops . And the main components in thereare the the th the chip that actually has the intelligence of the machine that translates button presses into a message , which it then transfers to some sending mechanism , which encodes it and sends the message tothe receiver . So those are the basic things that we've got to get in for our twelve Euros fifty . {vocalsound} Thank you .Project Manager: Hmm . {vocalsound} Okay . Right . But those things {disfmarker} as long as wecan get those components , the block , that that rectangle for the user interface , is where the user comes in of {disfmarker} what what does it look like ? What do the buttons look like ? Uh what does it feel like ? That'swhere the user interface is really coming into its own .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: The technical end is what's actually gonna be in there , but also it has to be easy enough to change or repair ifsomething goes wrong . For example the battery energy source or um what if the chip , for whatever reason , breaks down after a certain amount of time , do you just replace it ? Um is there any um {disfmarker}because it may be in the same area with several other user interfaces , like for D_V_D_s , movies , whatever . Um does it have to have a a way of being segregated from the others , in a different frequency orsomething ?Industrial Designer: Well I may be wrong here , but I'd been thinking of this device as being a a cheap mass-produced device . We're trying to sell four million of 'em ,Project Manager: Mm .IndustrialDesigner: um that's that's , you know , that's almost one in every tenth household or whatever it is . Um and I hadn't thought of it as being a reparable thing ,Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay .Industrial Designer:you just {disfmarker} if it goes wrong you chuck it out , and that's why I'm a bit concerned . I like the idea of speech recognition , that's a great idea , but I'm not convinced we can put it into this box for the price thatwe need {disfmarker} gonna need to hit .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Whoop .Marketing: Do we have um ki some idea of how much it would cost to create a device that has these basic elements ?UserInterface: {vocalsound} Isn't that your job ?Marketing: Because then {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Oh .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: No ,User Interface: {vocalsound} Oh right.Marketing: the chip composer marketing . Oh no , the chip composer sender .Project Manager: Mm . What they cost .Industrial Designer: Um , I'm I'm I'm hoping that my personal coach is gonna {vocalsound} give mesome advice on that , if you're asking me ,Marketing: I I don't believe I know , um .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay .Marketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: but {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: Be becausethen we would ha ha figure out how much we had to play with in terms of user interface and this look and feel idea .User Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface:It does it does seem as if we're just to do something really simple and mass-produced , the {disfmarker} which is pretty much the same as these existing models ,Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: just maybe a"}
{"doc_id":"doc_98","qid":"","text":"Postdoc B: Alright .Professor C: So , uh {disfmarker}Grad F: Um , so I wanted to discuss digits briefly , but that won't take too long .Professor C: Oh good . Right . OK , agenda items , Uh , we have digits , What else wegot ?PhD A: New version of the presegmentation .Professor C: New version of presegmentation .Postdoc B: Um , do we wanna say something about the , an update of the , uh , transcript ?PhD G: Yeah , why don't yousummarize the {disfmarker}Professor C: Update on transcripts .PhD G: And I guess that includes some {disfmarker} the filtering for the , the ASI refs , too .Postdoc B: Mmm .Professor C: Filtering for what ?PhD G: Forthe references that we need to go from the {disfmarker} the {pause} fancy transcripts to the sort of {nonvocalsound} brain - dead .Postdoc B: It 'll {disfmarker} it 'll be {disfmarker} basically it 'll be a re - cap of ameeting that we had jointly this morning .Professor C: Uh - huh .PhD G: With Don , as well .Postdoc B: Mm - hmm .Professor C: Got it . Anything else more pressing than those things ? So {disfmarker} So , why don'twe just do those . You said yours was brief , so {disfmarker}Grad F: OK . OK well , the , w uh as you can see from the numbers on the digits we 're almost done . The digits goes up to {pause} about four thousand . Um, and so , uh , we probably will be done with the TI - digits in , um , another couple weeks . um , depending on how many we read each time . So there were a bunch that we skipped . You know , someone fills out theform and then they 're not at the meeting and so it 's blank . Um , but those are almost all filled in as well . And so , once we 're {disfmarker} it 's done it would be very nice to train up a recognizer and actually startworking with this data .PhD D: So we 'll have a corpus that 's the size of TI - digits ?Grad F: And so {disfmarker} One particular test set of TI - digits .PhD D: Test set , OK .Grad F: So , I {disfmarker} I extracted , Ther- there was a file sitting around which people have used here as a test set . It had been randomized and so onPhD D: Grad F: and that 's just what I used to generate the order . of these particular ones .PhD D: Oh !Great . Great .Professor C: So , I 'm impressed by what we could do , Is take the standard training set for TI - digits , train up with whatever , you know , great features we think we have , uh for instance , and then teston uh this test set .Grad F: Um {disfmarker}Professor C: And presumably uh it should do reasonably well on that , and then , presumably , we should go to the distant mike , and it should do poorly .PhD D: Yeah.Professor C: And then we should get really smart over the next year or two , and it {disfmarker} that should get better .Grad F: Right . And inc increase it by one or two percent , yeah .Professor C: Yeah ,{vocalsound} Yeah .Grad F: Um , but , in order to do that we need to extract out the actual digits .Professor C: Right .Grad F: Um , so that {disfmarker} the reason it 's not just a transcript is that there 're false starts ,and misreads , and miscues and things like that . And so I have a set of scripts and X Waves where you just select the portion , hit R , um , it tells you what the next one should be , and you just look for that . You know, so it {disfmarker} it 'll put on the screen , \" The next set is six nine , nine two two \" . And you find that , and , hit the key and it records it in a file in a particular format .Professor C: So is this {disfmarker}Grad F: Andso the {disfmarker} the question is , should we have the transcribers do that or should we just do it ? Well , some of us . I 've been do I 've done , eight meetings , something like that , just by hand . Just myself ,rather . So it will not take long . Um {disfmarker}Professor C: Uh , what {disfmarker} what do you think ?Postdoc B: My feeling is that we discussed this right before coffee and I think it 's a {disfmarker} it 's a fine ideapartly because , um , it 's not un unrelated to their present skill set , but it will add , for them , an extra dimension , it might be an interesting break for them . And also it is contributing to the , uh , c composition of thetranscript cuz we can incorporate those numbers directly and it 'll be a more complete transcript . So I 'm {disfmarker} I think it 's fine , that part .Grad F: There is {disfmarker} there is {disfmarker}Professor C: Soyou think it 's fine to have the transcribers do it ?Postdoc B: Mm - hmm .Professor C: Yeah , OK .Grad F: There 's one other small bit , which is just entering the information which at s which is at the top of this form ,onto the computer , to go along with the {disfmarker} where the digits are recorded automatically .PhD D: Good .Professor C: Yeah .Grad F: And so it 's just , you know , typing in name , times {disfmarker} time , date, and so on . Um , which again either they can do , but it is , you know , firing up an editor , or , again , I can do . Or someone else can do .Postdoc B: And , that , you know , I 'm not , that {disfmarker} that one I 'mnot so sure if it 's into the {disfmarker} the , things that , I , wanted to use the hours for , because the , the time that they 'd be spending doing that they wouldn't be able to be putting more words on .Professor C:Mmm .Postdoc B: But that 's really your choice , it 's your {disfmarker}PhD D: So are these two separate tasks that can happen ? Or do they have to happen at the same time before {disfmarker}Grad F: No they don'thave {disfmarker} this {disfmarker} you have to enter the data before , you do the second task , but they don't have to happen at the same time .PhD D: OK .Grad F: So it 's {disfmarker} it 's just I have a file whiwhich has this information on it , and then when you start using my scripts , for extracting the times , it adds the times at the bottom of the file . And so , um , I mean , it 's easy to create the files and leave them blank, and so actually we could do it in either order .PhD D: Oh , OK .Grad F: Um , it 's {disfmarker} it 's sort of nice to have the same person do it just as a double - check , to make sure you 're entering for the right person. But , either way .Professor C: Yeah . Yeah just by way of uh , uh , a uh , order of magnitude , uh , um , we 've been working with this Aurora , uh data set . And , uh , the best score , on the , nicest part of the data ,that is , where you 've got training and test set that are basically the same kinds of noise and so forth , uh , is about , uh {disfmarker} I think the best score was something like five percent , uh , error , per digit .PhD A:Per digit .Professor C: So , that {disfmarker}Grad F: Per digit .Professor C: You 're right . So if you were doing {pause} ten digit , uh , recognition , {vocalsound} you would really be in trouble . So {disfmarker} So the{disfmarker} The point there , and this is uh car noise uh , uh things , but {disfmarker} but real {disfmarker} real situation ,PhD D: Mm - hmm .Professor C: well , \" real \" , Um , the {disfmarker} uh there 's onemicrophone that 's close , that they have as {disfmarker} as this sort of thing , close versus distant . Uh but in a car , instead of {disfmarker} instead of having a projector noise it 's {disfmarker} it 's car noise . Uh butit wasn't artificially added to get some {disfmarker} some artificial signal - to - noise ratio . It was just people driving around in a car . So , that 's {disfmarker} that 's an indication , uh that was with , many sitescompeting , and this was the very best score and so forth , so . More typical numbers likePhD D: Although the models weren't , that good , right ? I mean , the models are pretty crappy ?Professor C: You 're right . Ithink that we could have done better on the models , but the thing is that we got {disfmarker} this {disfmarker} this is the kind of typical number , for all of the , uh , uh , things in this task , all of the , um , languages. And so I {disfmarker} I think we 'd probably {disfmarker} the models would be better in some than in others . Um , so , uh . Anyway , just an indication once you get into this kind of realm even if you 're looking atconnected digits it can be pretty hard .PhD D: Hmm .Postdoc B: Hmm . It 's gonna be fun to see how we , compare at this . Very exciting . s @ @ .Professor C: Yeah .PhD D: How did we do on the TI - digits ?Grad F:Well the prosodics are so much different s it 's gonna be , strange . I mean the prosodics are not the same as TI - digits , for example .Professor C: Yeah .Grad F: So I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm not sure how much of effectthat will have .PhD D: H how do {disfmarker}PhD G: What do you mean , the prosodics ?Grad F: Um , just what we were talking about with grouping . That with these , the grouping , there 's no grouping at all , and soit 's just {disfmarker} the only sort of discontinuity you have is at the beginning and the end .PhD G: So what are they doing in Aurora , are they reading actual phone numbers ,Grad F: Aurora I don't know . I don'tknow what they do in Aurora .PhD G: or , a {disfmarker} a digit at a time , or {disfmarker} ?Professor C: Uh , I 'm not sure how {disfmarker}PhD G: Cuz it 's {disfmarker}Professor C: no , no I mean it 's connected{disfmarker} it 's connected , uh , digits ,PhD G: Connected .Professor C: yeah . But .Grad F: But {disfmarker} Right .PhD G: So there 's also the {disfmarker} not just the prosody but the cross {disfmarker} the cross- word modeling is probably quite different .PhD D: H HowGrad F: But in TI - digits , they 're reading things like zip codes and phone numbers and things like that ,PhD G: Right .PhD D: do we do on TI - digits ?Grad F:so it 's gonna be different . I don't remember . I mean , very good , right ?Professor C: Yeah , I mean we were in the .Grad F: One and a half percent , two percent , something like that ?Professor C: Uh , I th no I thinkwe got under a percent , but it was {disfmarker} but it 's {disfmarker} but I mean . The very best system that I saw in the literature was a point two five percent or something that somebody had at {disfmarker} at BellLabs , or . Uh , but . But , uh , sort of pulling out all the stops .Grad F: Oh really ?Postdoc B: s @ @ . It s strikes me that there are more {disfmarker} each of them is more informative because it 's so , random ,Grad F:OK . Alright .PhD D: Hmm .Professor C: But I think a lot of systems sort of get half a percent , or three - quarters a percent ,Grad F: Right .Professor C: and we 're {disfmarker} we 're in there somewhere .Grad F: Butthat {disfmarker} I mean it 's really {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's close - talking mikes , no noise , clean signal , just digits , I mean , every everything is good .Professor C: Yeah .PhD G: It 's the beginning oftime in speech recognition .Grad F: Yes , exactly .Professor C: Yeah .Grad F: And we 've only recently got it to anywhere near human .PhD G: It 's like the , single cell , you know , it 's the beginning of life ,PhD D: Pre -prehistory .PhD G: yeah .Grad F: And it 's still like an order of magnitude worse than what humans do .PhD G: Right .Professor C: Yeah .Grad F: So .Professor C: When {disfmarker} When they 're wide awake , yeah .Um ,Grad F: Yeah . After coffee .Professor C: after coffee , you 're right . Not after lunch .Grad F: OK , so , um , what I 'll do then is I 'll go ahead and enter , this data . And then , hand off to Jane , and the transcribersto do the actual extraction of the digits .Professor C: Yeah . Yeah . One question I have that {disfmarker} that I mean , we wouldn't know the answer to now but might , do some guessing , but I was talking beforeabout doing some model modeling of arti uh , uh , marking of articulatory , features , with overlap and so on .Grad F: Hmm .Professor C: And , and , um , On some subset . One thought might be to do this uh , on{disfmarker} on the digits , or some piece of the digits . Uh , it 'd be easier , uh , and so forth . The only thing is I 'm a little concerned that maybe the kind of phenomena , in w i i The reason for doing it is because the{disfmarker} the argument is that certainly with conversational speech , the stuff that we 've looked at here before , um , just doing the simple mapping , from , um , the phone , to the corresponding features that youcould look up in a book , uh , isn't right . It isn't actually right . In fact there 's these overlapping processes where some voicing some up and then some , you know , some nasality is {disfmarker} comes in here , and soforth . And you do this gross thing saying \" Well I guess it 's this phone starting there \" . So , uh , that 's the reasoning . But , It could be that when we 're reading digits , because it 's {disfmarker} it 's for such a limitedset , that maybe {disfmarker} maybe that phenomenon doesn't occur as much . I don't know . Di - an anybody {disfmarker} ? {pause} Do you have any {disfmarker} ? {pause} Anybody have any opinion about that,Postdoc B: and that people might articulate more , and you that might end up with more {disfmarker} a closer correspondence .Professor C: Mm - hmm . Yeah .Grad F: Yeah {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} I{disfmarker} I agree .PhD D: Sort of less predictability ,Grad F: That {disfmarker} it 's just {disfmarker}Postdoc B: Mm - hmm .Professor C: Yeah .PhD D: and {disfmarker} You hafta {disfmarker}Grad F: It 's a{disfmarker} Well {disfmarker} Would , this corpus really be the right one to even try that on ?PhD G: Well it 's definitely true that , when people are , reading , even if they 're re - reading what , they had saidspontaneously , that they have very different patterns . Mitch showed that , and some , dissertations have shown that .Professor C: Right .PhD G: So the fact that they 're reading , first of all , whether they 're readingin a room of , people , or rea you know , just the fact that they 're reading will make a difference .Professor C: Yeah .PhD G: And , depends what you 're interested in .Professor C: See , I don't know . So , may maybethe thing will be do {disfmarker} to take some very small subset , I mean not have a big , program , but take a small set , uh , subset of the conversational speech and a small subset of the digits , and {pause} lookand {disfmarker} and just get a feeling for it . Um , just take a look . Really .Postdoc B: H That could {disfmarker} could be an interesting design , too , cuz then you 'd have the com the comparison of the , uh ,predictable speech versus the less predictable speechProfessor C: Cuz I don't think anybody is , I at least , I don't know , of anybody , uh , well , I don't know , {vocalsound} the answers .PhD D: Hey .Professor C: Yeah.Postdoc B: and maybe you 'd find that it worked in , in the , case of the pr of the , uh , non - predictable .Professor C: Yeah .PhD D: Hafta think about , the particular acoustic features to mark , too , because , I mean ,some things , they wouldn't be able to mark , like , uh , you know , uh , tense lax .Professor C: Mm - hmm .PhD D: Some things are really difficult . You know ,Postdoc B: Well .PhD D: just listening .Grad F: M I think wecan get Ohala in to , give us some advice on that .PhD D: Yeah .Postdoc B: Also I thought you were thinking of a much more restricted set of features , that {disfmarker}Professor C: Yeah , but I {disfmarker} I{disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I was , like he said , {vocalsound} I was gonna bring John in and ask John what he thought .Postdoc B: Yeah , sure . Sure . Yeah .Professor C: Right . But I mean you want {disfmarker} youwant it be restrictive but you also want it to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to have coverage .Grad F: Right .Postdoc B: YeahProfessor C: You know i you should . It should be such that if you , if you , uh , if you had oum , all of the features , determined that you {disfmarker} that you were uh ch have chosen , that that would tell you , uh , in the steady - state case , uh , the phone . So , um .Postdoc B: OK .Grad F: Even , I guesswith vowels that would be pretty hard , wouldn't it ? To identify actually , you know , which one it is ?Postdoc B: It would seem to me that the points of articulation would be m more , g uh , I mean that 's {disfmarker} Ithink about articulatory features , I think about , points of articulation , which means , uh , rather than vowels .Grad F: Yeah .PhD D: Points of articulation ? What do you mean ?Postdoc B: So , is it , uh , bilabial ordental or is it , you know , palatal .Professor C: Mm - hmm .Postdoc B: Which {disfmarker} which are all like where {disfmarker} where your tongue comes to rest .Professor C: Place , place .PhD D: Place of ar place ofarticulation .Grad F: Uvular .PhD A: Place .Postdoc B: Place . Thank you , what {disfmarker} whatev whatever I s said , that 's {disfmarker}Professor C: Yeah .PhD D: OK .Postdoc B: I really meant place .Professor C:Yeah .PhD D: OK , I see .Professor C: Yeah . OK we got our jargon then , OK .Postdoc B: Yeah .Professor C: Uh .PhD G: Well it 's also , there 's , really a difference between , the pronunciation models in the dictionary ,and , the pronunciations that people produce . And , so , You get , some of that information from Steve 's work on the {disfmarker} on the labelingProfessor C: Right .Grad F: Right .PhD G: and it really , I actually thinkthat data should be used more . That maybe , although I think the meeting context is great , that he has transcriptions that give you the actual phone sequence . And you can go from {disfmarker} not from that to thearticulatory features , but that would be a better starting point for marking , the gestural features , then , data where you don't have that , because , we {disfmarker} you wanna know , both about the way that they 'reproducing a certain sound , and what kinds of , you know what kinds of , phonemic , differences you get between these , transcribed , sequences and the dictionary ones .Professor C: Well you might be right that mimight be the way at getting at , what I was talking about , but the particular reason why I was interested in doing that was because I remember , when that happened , and , John Ohala was over here and he waslooking at the spectrograms of the more difficult ones . Uh , he didn't know what to say , about , what is the sequence of phones there . They came up with some compromise . Because that really wasn't what it look like. It didn't look like a sequence of phonesGrad F: Right .PhD G: Right .Professor C: it look like this blending thing happening here and here and here .Grad F: Yeah , so you have this feature here , and , overlap , yeah.PhD G: Right .Professor C: Yeah .PhD D: There was no name for that .PhD G: But {disfmarker} Right .Professor C: Yeah .PhD G: But it still is {disfmarker} there 's a {disfmarker} there are two steps . One{disfmarker} you know , one is going from a dictionary pronunciation of something , like , \" gonna see you tomorrow \" ,Grad F: And {disfmarker} Or \" gonta \" .Professor C: Right . Yeah .PhD G: it could be \" going to \"or \" gonna \" or \" gonta s \" you know .Professor C: Right .PhD G: And , yeah . \" Gonna see you tomorrow \" , uh , \" guh see you tomorrow \" . And , that it would be nice to have these , intermediate , or these{disfmarker} some {disfmarker} these reduced pronunciations that those transcribers had marked or to have people mark those as well .Professor C: Mm - hmm .PhD G: Because , it 's not , um , that easy to go fromthe , dictionary , word pronuncia the dictionary phone pronunciation , to the gestural one without this intermediate or a syllable level kind of , representation .Grad F: Well I don't think Morgan 's suggesting that we dothat , though .Professor C: Do you mean ,PhD A: Yeah .Professor C: Yeah , I mean , I I I 'm jus at the moment of course we 're just talking about what , to provide as a tool for people to do research who have differentideas about how to do it . So for instance , you might have someone who just has a wor has words with states , and has uh {disfmarker} uh , comes from articulatory gestures to that . And someone else , mightactually want some phonetic uh intermediate thing . So I think it would be {disfmarker} be best to have all of it if we could . But {pause} um ,Grad F: But {disfmarker} What I 'm imagining is a score - like notation ,where each line is a particular feature .Professor C: Yeah .Grad F: Right ,Professor C: Yeah .Grad F: so you would say , you know , it 's voiced through here , and so you have label here , and you have nas nasal here ,and , they {disfmarker} they could be overlapping in all sorts of bizarre ways that don't correspond to the timing on phones .Professor C: I mean this is the kind of reason why {disfmarker} I remember when at one ofthe Switchboard , workshops , that uh when we talked about doing the transcription project , Dave Talkin said , \" can't be done \" .Grad F: Right .Professor C: He was {disfmarker} he was , what {disfmarker} what hemeant was that this isn't , you know , a sequence of phones , and when you actually look at Switchboard that 's , not what you see , and , you know . And . It ,Grad F: And in {disfmarker} in fact the inter - annotatoragreement was not that good , right ? On the harder ones ?Professor C: yeah I mean it wasPhD G: It depends how you look at it , and I {disfmarker} I understand what you 're saying about this , kind of transcriptionexactly ,Professor C: Yeah .PhD G: because I 've seen {disfmarker} you know , where does the voicing bar start and so forth .Professor C: Yeah .PhD G: All I 'm saying is that , it is useful to have that {disfmarker} the"}
{"doc_id":"doc_99","qid":"","text":"Grad D: And we already got the crash out of the way . It did crash , so I feel much better , earlier .Professor F:  Yeah .Postdoc E: Interesting . Hmm .Professor F: Will you get the door , and {disfmarker} ? Grad D: OK ,so um .Professor F: OK . You collected an agenda , huh ?Grad D: I did collect an agenda . So I 'm gonna go first . Mwa - ha - ha ! It shouldn't take too long .Postdoc E: Yeah .Grad D: Um , so we 're pretty much out ofdigits . We 've gone once through the set . Um , so the only thing I have to doProfessor F: No there 's only ten .Grad D: Yeah , that 's right . so I {disfmarker} I just have to go through themProfessor F: Well , OK .GradD: and uh pick out the ones that have problems , and either correct them or have them re - read . So we probably have like four or five more forms to be read , to be once through the set . I 've also extracted out aboutan hour 's worth . We have about two hours worth . I extracted out about an hour 's worth which are the f digits with {disfmarker} for which whose speaker have speaker forms , have filled out speaker forms . Noteveryone 's filled out a speaker form . So I extracted one for speakers who have speaker forms and for meetings in which the \" key \" file and the transcript files are parsable . Some of the early key files , it looks like ,were done by hand , and so they 're not automatically parsable and I have to go back and fix those . So what that means is we have about an hour of transcribed digits that we can play with . Um , Liz{disfmarker}Professor F: So you think two {disfmarker} you think two hours is the {disfmarker} is the total that we have ?Grad D: Yep , yeah .Professor F: And you think we th uh , I {disfmarker} I didn't quite catchall these different things that are not quite right , but you think we 'll be able to retrieve the other hour , reasonably ?Grad D: Yes , absolutely .Professor F: OK .Grad D: So it 's just a question of a little hand - editing ofsome files and then waiting for more people to turn in their speaker forms . I have this web - based speaker form , and I sent mail to everyone who hadn't filled out a speaker form , and they 're slowly s trickling in.Professor F: So the relevance of the speaker form here , sGrad D: It 's for labeling the extracted audio files .Professor F: Oh , OK .Grad D: By speaker ID and microphone type .Professor F: Wasn't like whether theywere giving us permission to use their digits or something .Grad D: No , I spoke with Jane about that and we sort of decided that it 's probably not an issue that {disfmarker} We edit out any of the errors anyway . Right? So the there are no errors in the digits ,Professor F: Yeah .Grad D: you 'll always read the string correctly . So I can't imagine why anyone would care . So the other topic with digits is uh , Liz would like to elicitdifferent prosodics , and so we tried last week with them written out in English . And it just didn't work at all because no one grouped them together . So it just sounded like many many more lines instead of anythingelse . So in conversations with Liz and uh Jane we decided that if you wrote them out as numbers instead of words it would elicit more phone number , social security number - like readings . The problem with that is itbecomes numbers instead of digits . When I look at this , that first line is \" sixty one , sixty two , eighteen , eighty six , ten . \" Um , and so the question is does anyone care ? Um , I 've already spoken with Liz and shefeels that , correct me if I 'm wrong , that for her , connected numbers is fine ,Postdoc E: Mm - hmm .Grad D: as opposed to connected digits . Um , I think two hours is probably fine for a test set , but it may be a littleshort if we actually wanna do training and adaptation and all that other stuff .Professor F: Yeah Um , do um you want different prosodics , so if you always had the same groupings you wouldn't like that ? Is that correct?PhD G: Well , we actually figured out a way to {disfmarker}Grad D: Yeah , the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker}PhD G: the {disfmarker} the groupings are randomly generated .Professor F: No but , I was asking if thatwas something you really cared about because if it wasn't , it seems to me if you made it really specifically telephone groupings that maybe people wouldn't , uh , go and do numbers so much . You know if it if it 's{disfmarker}PhD A: Uh {disfmarker}PhD G: I think they may still do it , um ,Professor F: Maybe some , but I probably not so much .PhD B: What about putting a hyphen between the numbers in the group ?PhD G: And{disfmarker}Professor F: Right ? So if you {disfmarker} if {disfmarker} if you have uhGrad D: Six dash one , you mean ?Professor F: if you go six six six uh dash uh two nine three one .PhD G: I {disfmarker} well OK{disfmarker} I {disfmarker} it might help , I would like to g get away from having only one specific grouping .Professor F: That 's what I was asking , yeah .PhD G: Um , so if that 's your question ,Professor F: Yeah.PhD G: but I mean it seems to me that , at least for us , we can learn to read them as digitsPostdoc E: Yeah .PhD G: if that 's what people want . I {disfmarker} I 'mPostdoc E: Yeah .PhD G: don't think that 'd be thathard to read them as single digits .Postdoc E: I agree .PhD G: Um , and it seems like that might be better for you guys since then you 'll have just more digit data ,Grad D: Right .PhD G: and that 's always a good thing.Grad D: Yep .PhD G: It 's a little bit better for me too because the digits are easier to recognize . They 're better trained than the numbers .Grad D: So we could just , uh , put in the instructions \" read them as digits \".Professor F: Right .PhD G: Right . Right , read them as single digits , so sixty - one w is read as six one ,Postdoc E: Mm - hmm .PhD G: and if people make a mistake we {disfmarker}Grad D: How about \" O \" versus \"zero \" ?Professor F: I mean , the other thing is we could just bag it because it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's - I 'm not worrying about it I mean , because we do have digits training data that we have from uhfrom OGI . I 'm sorry , digits {disfmarker} numbers training that we have from OGI , we 've done lots and lots of studies with that . And um .PhD G: But it 's nice to get it in this room with the acousProfessor F: Yeah.PhD G: I mean {disfmarker} for {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker}Professor F: No , no , I guess what I 'm saying is thatGrad D: Just let them read it how they read it .Professor F: to some extent maybe we could justread them {disfmarker} have them read how {disfmarker} how they read it and it just means that we have to expand our {disfmarker} our vocabulary out to stuff that we already have .PhD G: Right . Well that 's finewith me as long as {disfmarker} It 's just that I didn't want to cause the people who would have been collecting digits the other way to not have the digits .Professor F: Yeah . We can go back to the other thing later.PhD G: So {disfmarker}Professor F: I mean we s we {disfmarker} we 've {disfmarker} We can do this for awhilePhD G: OK .Professor F: and then go back to digits for awhile , or um . Do yo I mean , do you want{disfmarker} do you want this {disfmarker} Do you need training data or adaptation data out of this ?PhD G: OK .Professor F: How much of this do you need ? with uh the {disfmarker}PhD G: It 's actually unclear rightnow . I just thought well we 're {disfmarker} if we 're collec collecting digits , and Adam had said we were running out of the TI forms , I thought it 'd be nice to have them in groups , and probably , all else being equal ,it 'd be better for me to just have single digitsProfessor F: OK .PhD G: since it 's , you know , a recognizer 's gonna do better on those anyway , um , and it 's more predictable . So we can know from the transcript whatthe person said and the transcriber , in general .Professor F: OK , well if you prePhD G: But if they make mistakes , it 's no big deal if the people say a hundred instead of \" one OO \" . and also w maybe we can just letthem choose \" zero \" versus \" O \" as they {disfmarker} as they like because even the same person c sometimes says \" O \" and sometimes says \" zero \" in different context ,Professor F: Yeah .PhD G: and that 's sort ofinteresting . So I don't have a Specific need cuz if I did I 'd probably try to collect it , you know , without bothering this group , but If we can try it {disfmarker}Grad D: OK so {disfmarker} so I can just add to theinstructions to read it as digits not as connected numbers .Postdoc E: Mm - hmm .PhD G: Right , and you can give an example like , you know , \" six {disfmarker} sixty - one would be read as six one \" .Grad D: Right.Postdoc E: Mm - hmm . And i actually it 's no more artificial than what we 've been doing with words .PhD G: And I think people will get it .Postdoc E: I 'm sure people can adapt to this , read it single .PhD G: Right ,right .Postdoc E: The spaces already bias it toward being separated .PhD G: It 's just easier to read .Postdoc E: And I know I 'm gonna find this easier than words .PhD G: Right .Grad D: Oh yeah , absolutely ,cognitively it 's much easier .PhD G: OK I also had a hard {disfmarker} hard time with the words ,Professor F: Yeah .PhD G: but then we went back and forth on that . OK , so let 's give that a tryGrad D: OK . And is thespacing alright or do you think there should be more space between digits and groups ?Professor F: OK .PhD G: and {disfmarker}Grad D: Or is that alright ?PhD G: I mean what do other people think cuz you guys arereading {comment} them .Postdoc E: I think that i it 's fine .Grad D: OK .Postdoc E: I it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} to me it looks like you 've got the func the idea of grouping and you have the grou the idea ofseparationPhD G: OK .Postdoc E: and , you know , it 's just a matter of u i the instructions , that 's all .PhD G: Great . OK .Grad D: And I think there are about ten different gouping patternsProfessor F: Let 's try it .PhDG: Well let 's give it a try .Grad D: isn't that right , Liz ? That we did .PhD G: Righ - right , and you just {disfmarker} they 're randomly {nonvocalsound} generated and randomly assigned to digits .Postdoc E: I did{disfmarker} Mm - hmm .Professor F: So we have {disfmarker}Postdoc E: Go ahead .Professor F: Sorry , I {disfmarker} I was just gonna say , so we have in the vicinity of forty hours of {disfmarker} of recordings now. And you 're saying two hours , uh , is digits , so that 's roughly the ratio then ,Grad D: Yep .Professor F: something like twenty {disfmarker} twenty to one . Which I guess makes {disfmarker} makes sense . So if wedid another forty hours of recordings then we could get another couple hours of this .Grad D: Right .Professor F: Um , yeah like you say , I think a couple hours for a {disfmarker} for a {disfmarker} for a test{disfmarker} test set 's OK . It 'd be nice to get , you know , more later because we 'll {disfmarker} we might use {disfmarker} use this up , uh , in some sense ,Postdoc E: Mm - hmm .Grad D: Right .Professor F: but{disfmarker} but uh {disfmarker}Postdoc E: Yeah , I also would like to argue for that cuz it {disfmarker} it seems to me that , um , there 's a real strength in having the same test replicated in {disfmarker} a wholebunch of times and adding to that basic test bank .Grad D: Right .Postdoc E: Hmm ? Cuz then you have , you know , more and more , u chances to get away from random errors . And I think , um , the other thing too isthat right now we have sort of a stratified sample with reference to dialect groups , and it might be {disfmarker} there might be an argument to be made for having uh f for replicating all of the digits that we 've done ,which were done by non - native speakers so that we have a core that totally replicates the original data set , which is totally American speakers , and then we have these stratified additional language groupsoverlapping certain aspects of the database .Grad D: Right . I think that uh trying to duplicate , spending too much effort trying to duplicate the existing TI - digits probably isn't too worthwhile because the recordingsituation is so different .Professor F: Yeah .Grad D: It 's gonna be very hard to be comparable .Postdoc E: Except that if you have the stimuli {pause} comparable , then it says something about the {disfmarker} thecontribution of settingProfessor F: No it 's {disfmarker} it 's not the same .Postdoc E: and {disfmarker}Professor F: A little bit , but the other differences are so major .Grad D: Yeah I mean read versus not .Postdoc E:OK .Professor F: They 're such major sources of variance that it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's uh {disfmarker}Postdoc E: What 's an example of a {disfmarker} of m some of the other differences ? Any other adifference ?Professor F: Well i i individual human glottis {vocalsound} is going to be different for each one ,Postdoc E: OK .Professor F: you know , it 's just {disfmarker} There 's so many things .Grad D: Well , and notjust that ,Postdoc E: OK .Professor F: it 's {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and enunciation .Grad D: I mean the uh the corpus itself . I mean , we 're collecting it in a read digit in a particular list , and I 'msure that they 're doing more specific stuff . I mean if I remember correctly it was like postman reading zipcodes and things like that .Professor F: TI - digits was ?Grad D: I thought so .Professor F: I thought{disfmarker} I thought it was read .Grad D: Was it read ?Professor F: Yeah , I think the reading zipcode stuff you 're thinking of would be OGI .Grad D: Oh , I may well be .Professor F: Yeah , no TI - digits was read inth in read in the studio I believe .Grad D: I haven't ever listened to TI - digits . So I don't really know how it compares .Professor F: Yeah . Yeah .Grad D: But {disfmarker} but regardless it 's gonna {disfmarker} it 'shard to compare cross - corpus .Professor F: But it {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} It - it 's different people {pause} is the {disfmarker} is the core thing .Grad D: So .Postdoc E: OK , fine .Professor F: And they 'redifferent circumstances with different recording environment and so forth , so it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's really pretty different . But I think the idea of using a set thing was just to give you some sort offramework , so that even though you couldn't do exact comparisons , it wouldn't be s valid scientifically at least it 'd give you some kind of uh frame of reference . Uh , you know it 's not {disfmarker}PhD B: Hey Liz ,What {disfmarker} what do the groupings represent ?Postdoc E: OK .PhD B: You said there 's like ten different groupings ?PhD G: Right , just groupings in terms of number of groups in a line , and number of digits in agroup , and the pattern of groupings .PhD B: Mm - hmm . Are the patterns {disfmarker} like are they based on anything orPhD G: Um , I {disfmarker} I just roughly looked at what kinds of digit strings are out there ,and they 're usually grouped into either two , three , or four , four digits at a time .PhD B: Oh .PhD G: And they can have , I mean , actually , things are getting longer and longer . In the old days you probably only hadthree sequences , and telephone numbers were less , and so forth . So , there 's between , um {disfmarker} Well if you look at it , there are between like three and five groups , and each one has between two and fourgroupings and {disfmarker} I purposely didn't want them to look like they were in any kind of pattern .PhD B: Mmm .PhD G: SoGrad D: And which group appears is picked randomly , and what the numbers are arepicked randomly .PhD B: Mm - hmm .Grad D: So unlike the previous one , which I d simply replicated TI - digits , this is generated randomly .PhD G: Right .PhD A: Oh OK .PhD B: Mmm , oh , OK .PhD G: But I think it 'dbe great i to be able to compare digits , whether it 's these digits or TI - digits , to speakers , um , and compare that to their spontaneous speech , and then we do need you know a fair amount of {disfmarker} of digitdata because you might be wearing a different microphoneGrad D: Mm - hmm .PhD G: and , I mean {disfmarker} so it 's {disfmarker} it 's nice to have the digits you know , replicated many times . Especially forspeakers that don't talk a lot .Grad D: Yeah .PhD G: So {vocalsound} um , for adaptation . No , I 'm serious ,PhD A: Yeah .Grad D: Yeah all we have for some people is digits .Professor F: Yeah .PhD G: so we have aproblem with acoustic adaptation , and we 're not using the digit data now , but you know {disfmarker}Grad D: Oh , you 're not .PhD G: Not for adaptation , nope . v W we 're not {disfmarker} we were runningadaptation only on the data that we ran recognition on and I 'd {disfmarker} As soon as someone started to read transcript number , that 's read speech and I thought \" well , we 're gonna do better on that ,Grad D: OhI see .PhD G: that 's not fair to use \" .Grad D: Oh yeah that 's true , absolutely .PhD A: OK .PhD G: But , it might be fair to use the data for adaptation , so . So those speakers who are very quiet , {comment} shy{disfmarker}Grad D: That would be interesting to see whether that helps .PhD G: r Right {disfmarker}PhD B: Like Adam ?Grad D: Do you think that would help adapting on {disfmarker} Yeah . Yeah , I have a realproblem with that .Professor F: Yeah .PhD G: Well , it sh I mean it 's the same micropho see the nice thing is we have that in the {disfmarker} in the same meeting ,Grad D: Right . Same {disfmarker} same acoustics,Professor F: Yeah .PhD G: and so you don't get {disfmarker}Grad D: same microphone ,PhD A: Yeah .Grad D: same channel .PhD G: Right , and so I still like the idea of having some kind of {pause} digit data .Grad D:OK . Good .Professor F: Yeah I mean , for the {disfmarker} for the um acoustic research , for the signal - processing , farfield stuff , I see it as {disfmarker} as {disfmarker} as the place that we start . But , th I mean ,it 'd be nice to have twenty hours of digits data , but {disfmarker} but uh the truth is I 'm hoping that we {disfmarker} we through the {disfmarker} the stuff that {disfmarker} that you guys have been doing as youcontinue that , we get , uh , the best we can do on the spontaneous stuff uh , uh nearfield , and then um , we do a lot of the testing of the algorithms on the digits for the farfield , and at some point when we feel it 'smature and we understand what 's going on with it then we {disfmarker} we have to move on to the spontaneous data with the farfield . So .Postdoc E: Great .PhD G: The only thing that we don't have , I know thissounds weird , and maybe it 's completely stupid , but we don't have any overlapping digits .Grad D: Yeah , we talked about that a couple times .PhD G: An - yea I know it 's weird , but um {disfmarker}PhD A:Overlapping digits !Grad D: The {disfmarker} the problem I see with trying to do overlapping digits is the cognitive load .PhD G: Alright everybody 's laughing . OK .Grad C: Dueling digits .Grad D: No it 's {disfmarker}it 's not stupid , it 's just {disfmarker} I mean , try to do it .PhD G: I 'm just talkin for the stuff that like Dan Ellis is gonna try ,Grad D: I mean , here , let 's try it .PhD G: you know , cross - talk cancellation .Grad D: Youread the last line , I 'll read the first line .Professor F: Let 's try it .PhD G: OK .PhD A: Oh !PhD G: Wait {disfmarker} oh it {disfmarker} these are all the same forms .Professor F: Sixty - one .PhD G: OK {comment} Sobut {disfmarker}Grad D: So {disfmarker} so you read the last line , I 'll read the first line .Professor F: No , I 'll pPhD G: So you plu you plug your ears .Grad D: Oh I guess if you plug you 're ears you could do it , butthen you don't get the {disfmarker} the same effects .PhD A: Yeah .PhD G: Well , what I mean is actually no not the overlaps that are well - governed linguistically , but the actual fact that there is speech coming fromtwo peopleGrad D: Yeah .PhD G: and the beam - forming stuf all the acoustic stuff that like Dan Ellis and {disfmarker} and company want to do .Grad D: Oh I see .PhD G: Digits are nice and well behaved , I meanGradD: I guess we could try .PhD G: Anyway , it 's just a thought .Grad D: We could try doing some .PhD G: It {disfmarker} it would go faster .PhD B: Parallel .PhD G: It would take one around {comment} amount of tiPhDB: It 's the P - make of digit reading .Grad D: Well {disfmarker} Well OK . Well let 's try it .PhD G: That 's right . I {disfmarker} I mea I 'm {disfmarker} I was sort of serious , but I really , I mean , I 'm {disfmarker} Idon't feel strongly enough that it 's a good idea ,Professor F: See , yGrad D: You do the last line , I 'll do the first line .PhD G: so .Professor F: OK .Grad D: O . {comment} That 's not bad .Professor F: No , I can do it.PhD B: I couldn't understand a single thing you guys were saying .PhD G: A and that prosody was great , by the way .Postdoc E: I think it was numbers , but I 'm not sure .PhD G: It {disfmarker} it sort of sounded likea duet , or something .PhD A: Yeah .PhD B: Performance art .Professor F: Alright , let 's try three at once you {disfmarker} you pick one in the middle .PhD A: The Aurora theater .PhD G: OK .Professor F: Go .PhD G: I'm sorry . I 'm mean I think it 's doable ,Grad D: The poor transcribersPhD G: I 'm just {disfmarker}Grad D: they 're gonna hate us .PhD G: So , we {disfmarker} we could have a round like where you do two at a time ,"}
{"doc_id":"doc_100","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Hi Kate . {vocalsound} Okay , carry on .Industrial Designer: Just just carry on . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Alright um this is the beginning of the third meeting , the conceptualdesign meeting . Um our agenda should be um that we're opening the meeting , I have {disfmarker} the minutes from the previous meeting are on the shared f drive at this point . Um and we should each have apresentation to make . Um we have certain decisions to make and we have forty minutes total . It's twenty five after two at the moment , so forty minutes is five after three , {vocalsound} um which I'll be keeping aneye on the clock for us . Okay . {vocalsound} Um there are the decisions we have to turn to , but we'll come back to them in a minute after I take us to the minutes of the previous meeting . Right um as we remember ,I opened the meeting , the four of us were present , the meeting {disfmarker} the first meeting's minutes were reviewed and approved . Um Sarah , you presented a marketing research report um which pretty muchrep represented that fifteen to thirty five year olds uh it has to be hand-held , power , channel , volume , number keys , possibly a speech recognition . And then Steph did a second presentation um that those functionsplus streamlining them with big user-friendly keys that were easy to use . I think all of us agreed with those things . Kate presented a working design of {disfmarker} going after {disfmarker} going over the basics onthe whiteboard um that it should be a simple mass-produced device , because of the twelve and a half Pence cost . Um but we did talk about possibly using rechargeable batteries and having a docking place as a sellingpoint . Um and the new requirements that it for {disfmarker} be for T_V_ only um and that it include the l so slogan and colour of the uh corporate design be included . Um {vocalsound} the corporate image . So weagreed that the target market would be fifteen to thirty five with more money than sense , that were decision makers . Alternatively it would be a manufacturer to enclose it with the T_V_ , but it still should meet thoseparameters . Um and that the function we agreed was volume , power , numbers , enter , channels , a way to move between channels , easy to use and hand-held . {vocalsound} Um at that point we agreed that Sarahwould look at the current cost of competition , what what do the current ones sell for . Um and Steph was gonna look at ec ergonomics . Kate was gonna look at cost and feasibility of the various possibilities that wediscussed . And I was to type up these minutes and work on the final report . Is this a fair presentation of what our last meeting was ?User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Yes .ProjectManager: Okay . Right . So we're ready to close that and go back to our {disfmarker} That one . Right . We're up to the point of the {disfmarker} Go back . Um {vocalsound} the three presentations . So we're going topull the plug on me and turn to Sarah . Is that okay ? Is that alright with everybody else ?Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yep .Project Manager: Especially since Kate asked to be last .{vocalsound} Sarah , I'm sorry if I misspelled your name , I didn't know whether it was S_A_R_A_ or {vocalsound} S_A_R_H_ .Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} I respond to either .Project Manager: You respondto whatever you get , huh ? {vocalsound}Marketing: No worries .Project Manager: Okay . Um , did you do your {disfmarker} Hit {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah , {gap}Project Manager: Ah , there it is . Ta-da.Marketing: Okay , first thing I want to address is um one of the points that Florence brought up , which was uh current cost of the competition devices , similar to the ones that Stephanie uh showed us and and they'reuh twenty to sixty Euros , depending on uh branding .User Interface: Right .Marketing: Some of them that have a higher brand recognition are on the more expensive end . But I think that with the current um price thatwe're searching for , we're well within , even on the lower end , of the uh of the market .Project Manager: Mm 'kay .Marketing: But I'm going to move on to more interesting um {vocalsound} more vibrant things .{vocalsound} So , I investigated the remote control market in greater detail , and my uh {disfmarker} the theme of what I was to work on was uh trend watch .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: And{vocalsound}Project Manager: 'Kay .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Sorry . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}UserInterface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I'm glad to see the marketing budget is being so well spent on {vocalsound} {gap} . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound} I know that you all are a distance from cutting edge marketing research ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: so you know , I'm just gonna try to cloak it in really professional terms here . What'shot , fruit and veg . Spongy .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: And this is all over the catwalks , Paris , Milan , and I'm talking about clothing , furniture , shoes .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: This is really interesting change from past years ,Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: because it is much more organic , um somewould say approachable . {vocalsound} And I think if we're to refashion our view of what we want in a remote control , we should perhaps think about incorporating technologically interesting fabrics and some of thebold colours into a simple handset . So . {vocalsound} I also did a little research on um {vocalsound} what again are the most important priorities in uh decision making about uh purchasing . Fancy . Functional is out .And f the fancy , and that's exactly the term , I'm I'm thinking polished , elegant , {vocalsound} you know , kind of innovative , but a cut above . This is twice as important as the next finding , which is technologicallyinnovative . This is interesting , 'cause I think in the last meeting we were talking about technology as being so important , but maybe what's innovative is having it simple with um with uh technologically {vocalsound}superior fabrics or uh , you know , designed in interesting substances . Ease of use . Again , pretty low , I mean it's the top three , but each of the uh fancy and technologically innovative are far more important . So Ithink we should cloak the streamlined remote control device in a series of {vocalsound} fruit {vocalsound} fruit themed sleeves .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} I thinkthat's a good idea . Don't you ? {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Y yeah , you know {disfmarker}Project Manager: It sounds like the the uh covers that they use for the remote , you know , your t your cell phone.User Interface: Yes .Marketing: Exactly . {vocalsound} Exactly . I was thinking though that instead of having something uh like patterned , you know , so , you know , something similar to a summer dress . {gap} youknow , it would have like fruit and veg , is that we actually make these spongy .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: They could be {disfmarker} ini initially I thought we could start with kind of um fruit that would suit kindof uh a long uh hand-held , so banana , pineapple and pear . Um it could actually {disfmarker} the sleeve could {vocalsound} take up a lot of the {vocalsound} development and the remote control , we'd just need toget reductionist on it . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: They could be interchangeable , they're spongy , that goes back to ergonomic , and the youngsters love 'em , fun for the wholefamily , everyone can have their own . So what we're talking about is changing . this concept . Everyone has a T_V_ remote , but then we add in the fact that they could each have their own individual fruit .UserInterface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} That's what's hot on the catwalks . {vocalsound} So , this is my {disfmarker} This is what I'm thinking .Project Manager: Hmm .User Interface: {vocalsound}{vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh-huh mm . In most families , don't {disfmarker} isn't the remote {disfmarker} is a remote .Marketing: Y yeah , but I think I think what this would allow is perhaps a person in thefamily who had the most opinion about it {disfmarker} we all need a remote ,Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: but the person who is really perhaps active in personalising , I'm thinking the teenager , the {disfmarker}someone fifteen to thirty five would go out and get this additional thing the same way as you mentioned that people would get the cell phone covers .User Interface: {vocalsound} So when your dad's sitting there ,overriding your decision , going no we're gonna watch this , you can bring out your own remote and be like zap , no we're gonna watch this .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah . W and {vocalsound} plus I think{disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm . Well actually some households do have three and four T_V_sMarketing: {vocalsound} Uh yeah .User Interface: {gap}Project Manager: and they would have a remote for each one,Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: so .Marketing: Yeah . So this is an idea and I I {disfmarker} you know , this is exactly what the research has uh has shown . So I really open this up to uh any other feedback . This{vocalsound} spongy fruit and veg .Industrial Designer: Yeah , I I think we're gonna have some trouble when we get down to the component design on this .Marketing: Thanks . {vocalsound} Alright .Project Manager:Hmm .Industrial Designer: Spongy is gonna be difficult , I'm afraid .User Interface: Yep . {vocalsound} And as for as for um well budgeting as well , if we're gonna have lots of different interchangeable components.Project Manager: Hmm . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I I just have my ear to the market , guys . {gap} {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} Is this {gap} to the market {gap} ?Industrial Designer:Yeah , I mean basically we can make these things out of wood , titanium , plastic or rubber . I suppose rubber is the closest to spongy ,Marketing: Is spongiest , yeah .Industrial Designer: yeah .Marketing: That wouldadd {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I was thinking titanium myself .User Interface: I was thinking titanium , I was thinking it's just {disfmarker} I have been influenced by pictures of iPods , and they're alsominimalist and shiny .Marketing: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound} They are and they they would fulfil the uh first um priority , which is fancy . I think many of us would associate those with fancy . Something else we could dois uh call it something that's fruit and veg oriented . We could call it uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} The name .Project Manager: Are we talking about the device itself or the c or a cover for the device that would be aninterchangeable cov cover as a separate product ?Marketing: {vocalsound} Well it would be uh a a very simple product that would have a spongy sleeve that would be interchangeable . So {disfmarker}ProjectManager: Perhaps perhaps that desi that particular suggestion needs to go back to managementUser Interface: Yeah , but it's kind of pointless , isn't it ?Project Manager: and perhaps go to another group to actuallydesign as a separate product .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound} That , you know , that might be {disfmarker}User Interface: Let's delegate . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Wo would that be agreeable?Marketing: And then we could keep it titanium .Industrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound} W w would it be helpful if um I described the components a bit , because I think it would give you um {disfmarker} maybe bringthis discussion back to Earth of what we can actually physically do .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah , maybe . Or {disfmarker}Project Manager: Do you wanna be next or you want Kate to go next ?User Interface: Ithink possibly it might be more useful if Kate went next .Project Manager: Okay , we'll move the {disfmarker}User Interface: Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} You caneven have them in different flavours as well . {vocalsound} So that if you just wanna sit there and chew on the remote , it could be like pear flavour ,Marketing: Yeah . Or s or smelly . ScratchyUser Interface: yeah .Scratch and sniff . {vocalsound}Marketing: Uh well I was really thinking a lot about the I_ uh the iMac kind of gel gem tone .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Right , wellMarketing: It's hot on the streets , guys.Industrial Designer: I I I think some of this um {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: you're gonna be a little disappointed with some of the things I have to tell you , but I'm afraid this is thereal world . {vocalsound} So um I've been looking at the the basics of how these devices actually have to work in order to operate , and I've had some discussions with the ma manufacturing division , who have told mewhat's actually available , you know , what the current state of the art in components is , and some of the exciting new things they've got , but I'm not sure that it's quite what you want um . Now this isn't a very goodoverhead , but this is just to show you , this is the innards of a remote control um . I really need a pen or something but uh {disfmarker} does my mouse work ? No . Um {disfmarker} oh yeah , can you see my littlemouse pointer ?Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: Right . This is this is the a a {vocalsound} a remote that's been opened upProject Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: and that's the the back of the interface .And this is a push-button one , so you see these little little buttons here , they're little rubber rubber buttons that go through onto the the board at the back and they push these buttons here . Um {vocalsound} and we{disfmarker} that's the basic construction that we've got to got to accommodate . We got to have something that pushes the little buttons that um talk to the chip that encodes the message that sends the the messageto the receiver . So um I wan I wanna go through not not just addressing the um {vocalsound} uh the the points that you made , Sarah , but um {vocalsound} doing my presentation in the order I wrote it .{vocalsound} So first of all um I wanna talk about what possibilities we've got for the energy source .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Um we can have your bog standard double double A_ batteries in areplaceable um little compartment . We can have a hand {disfmarker} {vocalsound} sorry {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} A wind-up .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: a wind-up , yeah ,{vocalsound} which I think is quite an interesting concept for a {disfmarker} {vocalsound} sorry {disfmarker} for a remote control ,Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: but i itmaybe is {disfmarker} doesn't quite go with the um the fruit and veg .Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Alright .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Umone that one that I think is quite interesting is the kinetic energy source ,Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Remember , we only have forty minutesIndustrial Designer: where um {vocalsound} you you actuallyget the energy by moving the device ,Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: Hmm .Industrial Designer: which is quite a ni a nice and neat one . You have to {disfmarker} it means that if it's sitting there for a long time itprobably won't work , but you have to sort of throw it between your hands every now and then , it'll work .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Or we we had talked about solar power ,Marketing: Hmm.Industrial Designer: but I thing that we agreed that that's not so good in the dark .Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: Now I'm afraid this is the options we've got on on the case . It can be made of plastic ,rubber , wood o if you like , {vocalsound} or titanium .Marketing: {vocalsound} Hmm .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Um and the nearest we've got to st to spongy there I guess is rubber , but um{vocalsound} I'm gonna come back to the advantages of titanium ,Marketing: Hmm .Industrial Designer: and basically it can have a flat surface , a curved surface or a double curved surface , but I think if we wannause standard components , we're gonna have difficulty with anything much beyond that .Marketing: Hmm .Industrial Designer: Okay , what does the interface look like ? Um well push button , that's that's the one we'reall familiar with . {vocalsound} Um we can have scroll buttons and the the scroll button can incorporate a push ,Project Manager: Hmm .Industrial Designer: so you can have it like on a mouse where you can use it togo up and down , change volume or channel or something like that and push to select something . {vocalsound} Um you can have multiple scroll buttons , um this is maybe getting a little bit complicated , but um it's it{disfmarker} the technology is there . And we can also incorporate an L_C_D_ display in the remote , but this will increase the cost . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Um the electronics that actually makes the device work ,we've basically got three , simple , regular , advanced , and the price goes up as we choose each of this . If we want the nice cheap one , the simple , then we can only have push buttons . All the other fancy interfacedesigns go out the window , I'm afraid . Um pay a little bit more for a regular chip and you can have scroll buttons . If you want the advanced chip it obviously costs more , but it {disfmarker} that's what you need ifyou want the L_C_D_ display . And the manufacturing devision tell me that they have recently developed um sample sensor sample speaker devices . Now I don't know what that is , but I think they think it's quiteimportant and we might want to incorporate it somewhere . Um ou our real expertise is in push buttons , I have to say , but maybe you think that's old technology . {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer:And {disfmarker} well I I think we've got two options . We can either go for a really cheap model , keep all of the costs down , um which {vocalsound} means a flat plastic case with an ordinary battery and simple pushbuttons . Or we can have something that looks a bit nicer , I think it , um won't necessarily l uh look like a pineapple , but um that {vocalsound} may or may not be a good thing .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Sorry . {vocalsound} Um {vocalsound} but it could have an L_C_D_ screen and it could have multiple scroll buttons , and it could have the the company's newdevelopment of the um sample sensor and speaker . {vocalsound} So , thank you .Marketing: That sounds good . Any idea {disfmarker} {vocalsound} you you mentioned that there would be a cost difference.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah ,Marketing: Um do you have any idea if if this could {disfmarker} if the fancy model could be done in twelve Euros fifty ?Industrial Designer: I'm afraid I don't have thatinformation available . Um manufacturing didn't actually give {disfmarker} attach any prices to any of this , I'm afraid .Project Manager: Hmm .Marketing: Hmm . Because , you know what , I'm being quite seriouswhen I say that that um the things I mentioned are hot . But I think the important thing might be to choose one .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah mm-hmm .Marketing: You know , if if what you're telling me is isum some of these things aren't just f aren't feasible , maybe we could something about naming , we could call it , you know , Blackberry .User Interface: Bear bear in mind it has to be the colours and styles of thecompany ,Marketing: That's uh {disfmarker}User Interface: so what I had been thinking was something chunky and yellow and plastic with black buttons with a logo on it .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Banana?Marketing: {vocalsound} Alright , well let's see then .User Interface: But um I I don't know how important that is to keep it exactly the colours of the Real Reaction company .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: It's justwhat I'd understood we'd be doing . That's before I heard about all this hot tips about the future , fruit-wise .Marketing: Yeah . But {disfmarker} yeah ,Industrial Designer: We we could we could do um a double curvedrubber one ,Marketing: I'm trying to streamline mine a little bit .Industrial Designer: which would allow um say a banana , but um unfortunately I see from my notes that if we do that , we have to have a push button asthe interface ,Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: we can't do anything fancier .User Interface: Shall we wait 'til I've 'til I've showed you what {disfmarker} well , {vocalsound} my extensive presentation"}
{"doc_id":"doc_101","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: That should hopefully do the trick , um . 'Kay . Sorry about the small delay . Falling a little bit behind schedule . And that's uh fifteen twenty five . Okay . So just to try and roughly go over what weagreed in the last one , um we're gonna go for something uh uh how was it ? Uh The new black , I believe .Marketing: {gap} .Project Manager: Um something that looks good 'cause that seems to be in preference toactual functionality in the end , though we should never avoid functionality , of course . Uh many of our components are gonna be standard , off the shelf , but it seemed like we were gonna require at least an advancedchip and we were still very much for the idea of using an L_C_D_ display . Um other things were we were hoping to use rubber , most likely gonna be double curved , etcetera . Okay . So um due to your hard work , wemight as well let the uh two designers go first , and uh show us the prototype .User Interface: Okay , it's a {disfmarker}Project Manager: Quite how the best way to do this is , I'm not sure ,Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}User Interface: {gap} I think if we both step upProject Manager: but {disfmarker}User Interface: and uh outline our ideas . Okay . Now do {disfmarker} uh doing the prototype gave us a bit more insightinto the ergonomics of the design . Um for one thing , it turned out that the only point at which it needs to be articulated for handedness is um is h i is down here for the uh L_E_D_ . As it turned out , the whole thingtransfers from the right to left hand fairly well from the point of view of operating the uh function buttons and joystick , though it might be an idea to be able to a adjust the positions for the base of the joystick just alittle bit for uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: {gap} ju just a thought . You could simply have a slightly ovoid shaped joystick that could then just be turn uh twisted round , so that the uh sticky uhso that the bit that sticks out a bit more is on one side or the other . But as you as you see with the uh {vocalsound} with holding it in the left hand , the L_ uh the L_C_D_ is nowhere useful , so that would need to bearticulated uh if we're going to retain {gap} ergonomic design . Um now I I got your note about uh keeping the cost down .Project Manager: I'm afraid yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: We'll go into that abit more ,User Interface: {gap} this design could be done with um with uh plastic casing .Project Manager: but please go on .User Interface: Though I would recommend around the grip part here in the middle , havingmaybe just a rubber grip over that which would allow for a slightly more sort of bio-morphic form , and a bit more ergonomic as well . As for the um as for the single curve , um well this edge and this edge , like I say itwould be nice to have some curvature to it , but it's not absolutely necessary . Really the curve that's most needed is the underside so that the jo so that the joystick rests over the the edge of the hand like this . Umand you have the uh transmitter here and a wee speaker for the uh for the uh for the uh fi uh for the remote control finder . So .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Any further comments ?IndustrialDesigner: Um obviously it's gonna be bulkier than how it looks , because it's gonna be flat on one side , so the L_C_D_ will be s sticking down like this , won't it ?User Interface: Mm-hmm . Yeah .Industrial Designer:'Cause it {disfmarker} you can't get it curved .User Interface: Yeah , I mean theIndustrial Designer: Uh because of costs .User Interface: uh {disfmarker} Yeah .Industrial Designer: And it's plastic as well , so it won'tbe as comfortable on the hand .User Interface: Yeah . I mean with the with the rubber design it could i you know it could pretty much mould very much to the to the user's hand .Project Manager: Mm .User Interface:One nice wee feature if we could if we could still do the rubber , I though of was to have {gap} the uh rubber extend beyond the end of the uh {vocalsound} of the rigid substructure . So it has a wee sort of tail that youjust drape over your wrist so it stays in position nicely .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Mm . Lovely . Um .Industrial Designer: Yeah , {gap} . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay , yeah . Great . Um.Marketing: Right . Yeah I've got a {disfmarker} if you load up my evaluation document .Project Manager: Yeah , okay {gap} .User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: Excellent work .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager:Um .Marketing: Uh evaluation . {vocalsound} Basic point uh have a list of criteria that we need to rate the prototype by . {vocalsound} Um then we will {disfmarker} it's a seven s um seven seven step kinda evaluationprocess . So um not seven steps , seven scale . So after we've finished doing all the ratings for each criteria , we average that and that will give us some type of uh confidence in our prototype . And uh the criteria {gap}based on Real Reactions' kinda goals and policies , marketing strategies , and also those I put together from the user requirements phase . 'Kay . Um if you flip the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} So , those are the criteria .And uh perhaps I could have put 'em a bit better , but you notice a few things that we've totally abandoned , which means {vocalsound} that uh the product will score very badly on some of those points .ProjectManager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Put it mildly . So we have um true ? One , t Seven , eight , oh . Fourth . Okay , so we have to go through each point . If we imagine it's actually straight , and just give ita a score . So um how well would you say the prototype is uh how well have we realised the dream of being able to stop remotes from from being lost , or to be able to find them once they are lost . I mean , uh is thehoming thing still {disfmarker} the locator , is that still {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah , that's still part of the design .Marketing: Sure . And Adam , we can keep that in ?Project Manager: Yeah , I believe so . So Imean I don't think anybody could actually stop a remote being lost ,Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: 'cause that would mean doing something about the human element ,Marketing: {vocalsound} Sure .ProjectManager: but I'd like to think that we've done something about finding the damn thing once we have .Marketing: TUser Interface: Mm . Mm . And making it a bright colour helpsMarketing: Sure .User Interface: with the{disfmarker} personally I would have gone for purple {gap} . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm . Bright colour . So we still have that noise thing , yeah ?User Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing:Os on a scale of one to seven , how would you guys rate it for finding {gap} finding it once it's lost ?User Interface: I'd say number one .Marketing: Number one ?Industrial Designer: One . Yeah .{vocalsound}Marketing: Okay . Number number one for the first criteria .User Interface: I think w if it was just the sounder then th {gap} I mean something I've found with uh w w with say tr trying to find uh acordless phone or a m mobile , you can hear it , but you can't quite pin it dow pin down where it is .Marketing: Yeah you can tell what room the mobile is {disfmarker}User Interface: BuIndustrial Designer: What about{disfmarker} what if the the volume on the T_V_'s turned up massively and uh you just wanna turn down the volume {gap} can't find remote . Suppose you have to go to the T_V_ and do it manually . Mm .Marketing:Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Mm . UmMarketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Like y you wouldn't hear the speaker {gap} .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: just before we go through all of thesteps here , um well what we'll do isMarketing: You wanna say something ?Project Manager: um if we can look at the criteria you're gonna evaluate , and then we'll come back to the product evaluation if that's alright.Marketing: That's fine .Project Manager: Yeah , is that {disfmarker}Marketing: Oh that's that's fine .Project Manager: Um so is there anything here that you that you wanted to cover as in the criteria that you'vecovered ? And then we'll come back pretty much promptly to this .Marketing: What do you mean cr is there anything I wanna {disfmarker}Project Manager: I is there any of these criteria that need any explaining ? Oris there anything that yous thought tha really would stand out compared to the others ?Marketing: Um , a few . {vocalsound} Something I neglected from my initial research is that Real Reactions has a a goal strategythat all of the products be inspired by material fashion , and clothing fashion . That is why fruit and veg being popular in the home and in clothing was important and they want all their products to be somehow inspiredby current trends in fashion . So they say we put the fashion in electronics , well they really mean it they they're very big on fashion ,Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: so . That's this bit right here . And uh this bit isthis one easy to use for visitors or for anybody ? I guess it's just the same as saying easy to use interface , so it's kinda condensed into one . And we can come back to it , you said .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: So.Project Manager: No and which we will do very very shortly . Um . Okay . Slight problem we had was that we have an amazing four Euros over budget for what we were hoping to do . Um most of it stems from the useof the L_C_D_ which I think in the end accounted for about half of our expenditure because of course we required a chip as well . Um the only way to get this down was either to ditch the a L_C_D_ , at which pointwe've removed a large part of how we were gonna interface , {gap} require more buttons , etcetera . Or what we did was that we um we as in I as I was quickly going over it was altering the actual structure . Umchanging it to plastic and a solid unit with a single curve design would allow us to come back into the um proposed costs and we're just scraping it in , we've got point two of a Euro left over there . So we're justmanaging it really . Even then as well , um there was no criteria technically defined for a joystick so I've used what I think's appropriate . With any luck that won't mean that we've incurred more cost than we canactually afford to . It blows a lot of our really good ideas kind of slightly to one side , for example the possibility of having a U_S_B_ connection is definitely not viable now . Um .Marketing: Different languages ?ProjectManager: That should still be viable . We've got an advanced chip , we've got the use of the L_C_D_ . So being able to communicate in multiple languages is still very much a possibility .Marketing: Yeah .{vocalsound}Project Manager: Um but what's something we need to decide on is how we're gonna go from here . {vocalsound} We do need to try and come up with an idea which could be continued with other people ifneed be . Um . We can I can bring the excel up sheet up and uh show you if you wish um . I really think as m much as it pains me is that we might have to go with plastic and some kind of solid design , possiblymeaning that the L_C_D_ wouldn't be in this perfect place . It might be s stuck like slightly between what would be good for left handed and what would be good for a right handed person .User Interface: Mm-hmm Isuppose o one thing that could be done is h {vocalsound} is have it um circular and have it s {vocalsound} so that the uh the pink {gap} actually goes a bit over the pinkie finger . Mm .Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Mm .User Interface: So that uh thProject Manager: It very much is about making concessions , unfortunately . Um .User Interface: Mm .Marketing: Do you have any data on how much um different printscost ? I mean can you get the entire thing printed with a design um ?Project Manager: Um b b b da is {disfmarker} you mean on the plastic , or ?Marketing: {gap} .Project Manager: Let's have a look . You now have asmuch information as I do . {vocalsound} Um .Marketing: Yeah , yeah .Project Manager: So as you can see here , for example , the battery really not very little choice in that one . We've gone for one of the cheaperoptions as well . Unfortunately we require the advanced chip if we're gonna do what we're needing to . I've said single curved . We really do need it to be that way for the ergonomics of it . Um plastic for some reasonincurs no cost , which I've had to very much make advantage of , despite the fact that rubber's only got a value of two Euros per unit . Problem comes here as you can see in the interface . Um if I've read this thingcorrectly , then we can save point five of a Euro here in that it's not per push button . That might make sense , because then a numeric keypad would come in at um what , four point five Euros , which is an awful lot ,so that could well be wrong . Even if we save point five there , it would just mean that we're most likely placing it in actually just gaining a colour for the unit , which has had to be put to one side . As you can see , theuse of an L_C_ display um advanced chip and what would determine the scroll wheel here as well because it's an integrated scroll scroll wheel push button that wasn't quite what I think they had in mind with a joystick.Marketing: Why would why would that be more expensive than an individual push button and scroll wheel together ? That's quite significantly expensive .Project Manager: I {disfmarker} that's something you'll have totake up with the bean counters . UmMarketing: {gap} .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Mm . {gap} yeah .Project Manager: as you can see I mean that's taken up well over half of the price .Marketing:Yeah .Project Manager: So um I'm very much open to suggestions of where we go , but because we need to shed what was four Euros off of the um the price of for what we really desired , this one comes in under priceas you can see , but this was the one that sacrificed the material for the case and for the actual case design .Marketing: We don't even have uh speakers here . The {disfmarker} like uh we uh {disfmarker} what aboutspeakers and transmitters and stuff like that ? Have we factored that in ?Industrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: Uh no , we haven't , not {disfmarker}Marketing: Transmitter , receiver , speakers . Plus the extradevice itself that's gonna be on a T_V_ .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Is that gonna be a button , or {disfmarker}Project Manager: That'll {gap} it literally would just be a button .Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: We might have to {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: That's too expensive {gap} isn't it ?Project Manager: It looks like almost nothing {disfmarker} Mm . Oh good call , I missed that .Marketing: I Imean it's not on here , but um .Project Manager: {gap} that's a very valid point .Marketing: Did they s do we have to use an advanced chip for the L_C_D_ ?Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Okay . Well that's{disfmarker} yeah .Project Manager: So if we're gonna go with the L_C_ display , then that's {disfmarker}Marketing: What's a hand dyna dynamo ? You have to wind it up ?Project Manager: I believe so , yeah.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: That would probably not be in keeping with the um the fashion statement and such ,Marketing: {vocalsound} Technology . Yeah .IndustrialDesigner: Fashion .Project Manager: yeah .Marketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: So basically the only new thing is the L_C_D_ on the remote now .Project Manager: Being manipulated by the joystick , yeah .IndustrialDesigner: Oh , and joystick , yeah .Project Manager: Which I'm defining as scroll wheel . Um .Marketing: And we couldn't replace the joystick , right ? Because we would need four extra buttons to replace it , up downleft and right , and that would be more expensive than a {disfmarker} but is a scroll wheel not just back and forward ?User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: Yeah it's just because there was no actual definition for whata joystick might be , that that's what I've labelled it for the purposes of this evaluation .Industrial Designer: So {disfmarker} The L_C_D_ basically is the big selling point ofProject Manager: If we remove the L_C_display , we could save ourselvesIndustrial Designer: the remote .Project Manager: a fair amount . Which you could {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: But that's what makes it uh original though ,UserInterface: Mm . I think {gap} if we remove the the L_C_ display then there was absolutely no point to any of these meetingsMarketing: Yeah . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: isn't it ?User Interface: and we just{gap} we could just put our branding on any other remote control .Marketing: Yeah . Yeah . Um . Uh kProject Manager: It's a shame . We should possibly have {disfmarker} If we could've increased the price wecould've manufactured that and we could've got something far closer to what we were hoping to .Marketing: Does this does this bear in mind that {disfmarker} I mean it's a bit ridiculous that they're gonna charge uswhat is it , like this much money for three million if we're gonna buy three million components ,Project Manager: Again , you'll have to argue with the accountants on that one .Marketing: you know .Project Manager:Um but for the purposes of this meeting , I'm {disfmarker} we're gonna have to stick with these figures .Marketing: Mm . 'Kay .Project Manager: So , I would say that it would seem like the general opinion is we'regonna keep the L_C_ display 'cause it's about what really separates us , {vocalsound} despite the cost it's gonna incur . UmMarketing: I think so .Project Manager: are people maybe not happy with , but are willing togo ahead with this in going for a plastic solid case , to keep the L_C_D_ ?User Interface: Mm-hmm . Um yeah {gap} I mean one thing , I mean ho uh how much extra would it be to to keep I mean {vocalsound} keepthe um the articulation ?Project Manager: It's hard to tell . Um I would say that you're at least gonna take double curved ,User Interface: This is what I'm wondering .Project Manager: and even then I'm not quite sure ifthat's incorporating the idea of articulation .User Interface: OhMarketing: Yeah .User Interface: no , I think I I it d that it needn't require it to be double curved .Industrial Designer: It can be s yeah , it can still be singlecurved ,User Interface: It's uh it's just {vocalsound} it's just {vocalsound} it's just that the case would come in t {vocalsound} would be made in two parts and then joined together with an articulation .IndustrialDesigner: but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Single curved with articulation ?Industrial Designer: You just {gap} .Marketing: Could we could we not get rid of the curvy the curvous the curvaceousness and focus on themenu being the best interface ? 'Cause like we {disfmarker} do we have re restrictions on software ?Industrial Designer: That's what we need for the joystick I think though .User Interface: Mm . Yeah , ImeanMarketing: Oh but there has to be {disfmarker}User Interface: and {vocalsound} I mean the uh I mean if you look uh if you look closer at the uh at the prototype here , the lines here along the grip are actuallyquite straight . Um I mean {gap} yeah ,Project Manager: {vocalsound} But the curves all o over {gap} hand ,User Interface: on the {gap} on the L_C_D_ I mean although we've done it with a curve itProject Manager:is it ?User Interface: could just as easily be done um without curves . The curve that's really needed is up here ,Marketing: {gap} joystick .User Interface: to put uh to keep the joystick in a good ergonomic position forit to have it rest on the top of the hand .Marketing: Okay . Sure . Okay , my bad .Project Manager: We wouldn't actually save a lot by reducing it anyway , so I mean for the purposes of this meeting maybe we can statethat single curve still allows articulation .User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: Um unless we hear otherwise we could go ahead with that proposal .Marketing: So I think the product is not gonna perform so well for mycriteria .Project Manager: Which is what we can get onto now . As long as {disfmarker} so are we gonna say {disfmarker} {gap} w we have to keep an eye on the time as well , but we're gonna say um single curveddesign {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing: Oh , wait a minute . Sample speaker ? What is a sample speaker ? Is that somewhat similar to what we want ?Project Manager: It could well be ,User Interface: MmnoProject Manager: but at a cost of {disfmarker}User Interface: that's that voice response thing that we got the email about .Industrial Designer: Costs four .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: But I thought it was justcompletely pointless .Marketing: You got a email about voice response ?User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: I did not ,User Interface: Alright .Marketing: so .User Interface: B i basically it was {gap} saying that our labshad come up with a chip that you could , you know , say hello to , and it would say hello back in a friendly female voice {gap} . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay , yeah we'll definitely won't go with that one"}
{"doc_id":"doc_102","qid":"","text":"The Chair (Hon. Anthony Rota (NipissingTimiskaming, Lib.)): I call this meeting to order. Welcome to the 14thmeeting of the House of Commons Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic.  This will be a hybridmeeting. Some members will be participating via video conference and some will be participating in person. In order to ensure that those joining the meeting via video conference can be seen and heard by those in thechamber, two screens have been set up on either side of the Speaker's chair, and members in the chamber can listen to the floor audio or to interpretation using their earpiece at their desk. Before speaking, please waituntil I recognize you by name, and please direct your remarks through the chair. For those joining via video conference, I would like to remind you to leave your mike on mute when you are not speaking. Also, pleasenote that if you want to speak in English, you should be on the English channel. If you want to speak French, you should be on the French channel. Should you wish to alternate between the two languages, you shouldchange the channel to the language that you are speaking each time you switch languages. Should members participating by video conference need to request the floor outside their designated speaking times, theyshould activate their mic and state that they have a point of order. Those in the Chamber can rise in the usual way. Please note that today's proceedings will be televised in the same way as a typical sitting of the House.We'll now proceed to ministerial announcements. I understand that there are none. Now we'll proceed to the tabling of documents. Mr.LeBlanc has a document he wants to table. Go ahead, Mr.LeBlanc.Hon. DominicLeBlanc: Mr. Chair, I have the honour to table, in both official languages, a report entitled \"Democracy Matters, Debates Count: A report on the 2019 Leaders' Debates Commission and the future of debates in Canada.Mr. Chair, on behalf of all of us, I want to thank the Right Honourable David Johnston for his continued service.The Chair: Good. We'll now proceed to the presenting of petitions, for a period not exceeding 15 minutes. Iwould like to remind members that any petition presented during a meeting of the special committee must have already been certified by the clerk of petitions. For members participating in person, we ask that youplease come to the front and drop off your certificate at the table once the petition has been presented. In presenting petitions, the first presenter today is Mr. Genuis.Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood ParkFortSaskatchewan, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm pleased to be presenting a petition in support of Bill S-204. This is a bill in the Senate, put forward by Senator Salma Ataullahjan. It would make it a criminal offence for aperson to go abroad and receive an organ for which there has not been consent by the donor. It also creates a mechanism by which someone could be deemed inadmissible to Canada if they were involved in organharvesting and trafficking. This bill is designed to confront and address the horrific practice by which, in certain casesfor instance, inside Chinaminority communities or dissidents may be targeted and have their organsremoved as they're killed and used for transplantation. Petitioners are supportive of Bill S-204, and they want to see it passed as soon as possible.The Chair: Our next petition will go to Mr. Viersen.Mr. Arnold Viersen(Peace RiverWestlock, CPC): Mr. Chair, I am presenting a petition today signed by Canadians who are concerned that Bill C-7 removes safeguards from the current euthanasia regime, including the mandatory 10-daywaiting period. Mr. Chair, these people who are signing this petition would like to see an improvement in assisted living, not assisted dying.The Chair: We'll now go to Ms. Zahid.Mrs. Salma Zahid (Scarborough Centre,Lib.): Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to present an e-petition signed by over 40 people. It asks that the Government of Canada recognize the Republic of Somaliland as an autonomous state that may result in foreigninvestments, direct access of development aid, foreign aid for disaster relief and infrastructure development investment loans.The Chair: Now we'll proceed to Statements by Members for a period not exceeding 15minutes. Each statement will be for a maximum of one minute. I remind members that if they exceed that time limit, they will be interrupted.  Our first statement goes to Monsieur El-Khoury.Mr. Fayal El-Khoury(LavalLes les, Lib.): Mr.Chair, I thank the government for the way it has managed this global crisis and its impact on Canadians. It has acted in a robust, rapid and very effective way. Our Prime Minister has beenawarded the medal of honour, courage and humanity worldwide. Canada is one of the few countries that has acted in the best interests of its citizens and maintained their dignity in these uncertain times. Whileaddressing Canadians, our right honourable Prime Minister showed us leadership, the importance of transparency, and integrity. He kept us united. His top priority was saving lives, along with finding realistic solutionsregarding the economic impact on our daily life. Because of his outstanding leadership, we're admired across the world, which is another distinguished privilege of being Canadian. Thank you, Mr. Chair.The Chair: We'llnow go to Mr. Epp.Mr. Dave Epp (Chatham-KentLeamington, CPC): COVID-19 has emptied food banks across Canada, even in an agricultural community like Chatham-Kent, so Wes Thompson and James Rasmussen,along with Alysson Storey, Randi Bokor, Maureen Geddes, Chris and Terry Johnston, Jason King, Fannie Vavoulis and Brent Wilken, grew an idea into the community's largest-ever food drive. Project manager MornaMcDonald estimates that over 3,000 volunteers ended up helping in the May 16 Miracle. Residents put non-perishable foodstuffs on their doorsteps, with drop-off centres organized for rural areas. Volunteer groupstravelled predetermined routes while maintaining physical distancing. The community collected an amazing 678,000 pounds of food. They accidentally exceeded by over 20% the record in the Guinness World Recordsbook for collected food in a single day. Chatham-Kent has restocked their food banks and reaffirmed their community pride. It's an honour to represent such a community.The Chair: We'll now go to Mr. Sarai. We havea point of order from Mr. d'Entremont.Mr. Chris d'Entremont (West Nova, CPC): As much as I like seeing my friends on the big screens, there are no big screens yet, so we don't know who's on and who's not on. I waswondering if there was going to be a TV coming up soon here, Mr. Chair.The Chair: There is a technical issue, and it is being worked on. We're working on it as we go through. The other alternative is that we suspenduntil we fix it. If it's okay, we'll just continue. I think we can all hear the members who are speaking. This is one of the realities of a virtual or hybrid system. Our next statement will go to Mr. Sarai.Mr. Randeep Sarai(Surrey Centre, Lib.): Thank you, Mr. Chair, and mabuhay to all the Filipino Canadians across this country. In June across Canada we recognize Filipino Heritage Month to raise awareness and celebrate the Filipinocommunity. Here in Surrey Centre, and across Canada, the Filipino community makes important contributions to our cities and has helped shape Canada into the vibrant multicultural society that we all know and lovetoday. Now more than ever, during these challenging times we must come together as Canadians to celebrate the rich heritage and history of our Filipino neighbours. Throughout June, please join me in celebrating ourfellow citizens of Filipino descent by recognizing all the incredible ways in which they have contributed to making Canada a better place for all of us. Happy Filipino Heritage Month. Thank you, Mr. Chair.The Chair:Mr.Perron.Mr. Yves Perron (BerthierMaskinong, BQ): Good afternoon, Mr.Chair. Today is World Milk Day, and I would like to recognize the exceptional work and dedication shown by everyone in the industry. Theyensure we have a nutritious, high quality product every day. Let's take part in the local consumption movement and rediscover the exceptional products of our dairy producers and processors. Enjoy the yogurts, cheesesand other products because it's true that milk is good. I would also like to thank BrunoLetendre, outgoing chair of the Producteurs de lait du Qubec, and I congratulate the new chair, DanielGobeil. The dairy industry hasbeen sacrificed several times in trade agreements. The government's broken promises are piling up. The payment of compensation is still uncertain. Action must be taken. The first step must be the direct allocation ofimport quotas to processors, and the second must be the full payment of the promised compensation. We demand a formal commitment from the government.The Chair: We'll now continue with Mr.Iacono.Mr. AngeloIacono (Alfred-Pellan, Lib.): Mr.Chair, June is Italian Heritage Month. The situation is special this year, since Italy has been hard hit by COVID-19, with more than 30,000deaths. Like me, many Italian Canadians stillhave family and friends in Italy, and the news has sometimes been very difficult to take, yet that has not detracted from the great co-operation that exists between Canada and Italy.  Today I would like to highlight thesolidariet italiana in our community. During the pandemic, Canadians of Italian descent have been united to support anziani, our famiglie and our amici in Italy by participating in the fundraising campaign COVID-19AiutiAMO lItalia to support the Italian Red Cross response activities. I send a special salute to to my cugino Giuseppe, who is still on the road to recovery from COVID-19. The Chair: We'll continue with Mr. Kram.Mr.Michael Kram (ReginaWascana, CPC): Mr. Chair, I would like to acknowledge all of the organizations in Saskatchewan and across Canada that are working hard to help small businesses adapt to the challenges of thecurrent pandemic. In particular, I would like to thank the Regina Downtown Business Improvement District, or RDBID. As soon as the pandemic hit, RDBID launched a daily electronic newsletter to keep their membersinformed of support programs, local initiatives and local success stories. They have used their social media channels on a daily basis to promote takeout and delivery services, online and curbside services offered byrestaurants and retailers. They have also launched a number of their own initiatives to help businesses access e-commerce. Through persistent communication and a lot of long hours, RDBID has helped businesses indowntown Regina to weather the storm. Because of their hard work, downtown Regina will come through this pandemic better than ever.The Chair: Mr.Lauzon now has the floor.Mr. Stphane Lauzon (ArgenteuilLaPetite-Nation, Lib.): Mr.Chair, high-speed Internet will be to the 21stcentury what electricity was to the 20th: an essential service. We are currently experiencing a drastic change in our morals, our consumption patternsand our socialization habits. We are turning to the Internet to read the news, contact our friends and complete our purchases. Isolation associated with COVID-19 has only accelerated this trend. Unfortunately, not allregions of Canada have reliable, affordable, high-speed access. I would like to reassure the citizens of my riding about the efforts that we are making as a government, but also about the work I've been doing as amember of Parliament since2015 to connect the 41municipalities of ArgenteuilLa Petite-Nation. Aside from this essential service, our students, seniors, entrepreneurs and telework are very important to the regions. Wehave heard you, and I will continue to fight for you, so that you can have access to affordable high-speed Internet.The Chair: We'll now go on to Mr. MacKinnon.Mr. Steven MacKinnon (Gatineau, Lib.): Mr. Chair, a fewdays ago, we all watched with horror and outrage the death of an unarmed black man at the hands of the police in Minneapolis. For many of us, these images may seem shocking, but it's an all too familiar tale tomillions of black people not only in the United States but also here in Canada, in my city of Gatineau and around the world, who must at times live with the scourge of anti-black racism.  Mr.Chair, I can't know what it'slike to be black in our society. What I do know, however, is that you and I, and everyone in this House, have the power and the responsibility to make our country more just. Let us all recommit ourselves to thatendeavour. Black Canadians and all those who have to endure racism and discrimination are watching us, and they expect more from us.The Chair: Mr. Duncan is next.Mr. Eric Duncan (StormontDundasSouth Glengarry,CPC): Without a doubt, these past few months have been challenging, to say the least, from both a health and economic perspective, but, Mr. Chair, I have to say how proud I am of my community ofStormontDundasSouth Glengarry. We continue to successfully flatten the curve in our region and, just as importantly, we are making sure that we are here for each other, whether it is the Cornwall Optimists' GoFeedMecampaign, the Iroquois-Matilda Lions Club delivering groceries to those who are quarantined in their households or the local United Way, the Social Development Council or the Carefor seniors support centre co-leadingan effort to deliver 1,500 baskets to seniors in need. There have been many examples of kindness and generosity from our community. I rise today in the House of Commons to say thank you to my constituents and toall Canadians; to our essential front-line workers, our service clubs and our businesses that have stepped up to help out; and to everybody playing their part to get us through this challenge. I couldn't be more proud ofmy community and my residents, and it is an honour to serve as their member of Parliament. Thank you, Mr. Chair.The Chair: We'll now go to Ms. Yip.Ms. Jean Yip (ScarboroughAgincourt, Lib.): Mr. Chair, althoughAsian Heritage Month has just passed, we recognize the tremendous effort of all Asian Canadians on the front lines of this pandemic, as health care providers or as essential workers. I want to thank the many Asianorganizations for donating to ScarboroughAgincourt's hospital, long-term care homes and food banks. As a Canadian born and raised in Scarborough, I'm offended by the reports of violence and vandalism targetingAsian-Canadian communities across this country. In budget 2019 we invested $45 million to launch a new anti-racism strategy, which included the establishment of the anti-racism secretariat, because these efforts areunfortunately clearly still needed. As events continue to unfold in the United States, it is important to recognize that we have work to do here as well. Whether it is anti-black or anti-Asian, racism and discrimination ofany kind have no place in Canadafull stop. Now more than ever, we must stand united in diversity.The Chair: We'll now go on to Mr. Bragdon.Mr. Richard Bragdon (TobiqueMactaquac, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Overthe last few months, Canadians throughout New Brunswick and across the country have stepped up to support their community. Health care workers, truckers, farmers, business owners, pharmacists, grocery storestaff, faith-based and non-profit organizations and so many others have all answered the call to do their part. Today, Mr. Chair, I would like to specifically highlight the work of those who support and take care of ourseniors, who are among some of our most at-risk citizens. It has been said that the character of a nation and its people is revealed most in how they treat their most vulnerable. Our seniors have made immensecontributions to our society. Many have put their lives on the line to protect Canada and the democratic freedoms we enjoy as Canadians. They have worked hard and made many sacrifices throughout their lives tomake Canada the greatest nation on earth. Taking care of our seniors is the right thing to do. I want to take this opportunity to thank all those who are supporting and caring for our seniors. Whether they be long-termcare staff, personal care workers, health care professionals, family members or volunteers, thank you for all you are doing in support of our seniors. Together we shall overcome.The Chair: We'll now go to Ms. Shin.Ms.Nelly Shin (Port MoodyCoquitlam, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Although we've come to the end of Asian Heritage Month, I'd like to acknowledge some unsung Chinese Canadian heroes who shed their blood as patriotsfor our nation. I commemorate the 6,500 Chinese Canadians of the 9,000 railway workers who helped build and unite Canada. I pay respect to the many Chinese Canadians who died while building the CP Railway on themost dangerous terrains in the B.C. segment. I honour the Chinese Canadians who served and died in World War II. Sadly, Asian communities in Canada face racist incidents today. No one should be afraid of walking intheir own neighbourhood. Adult children should not have to call their elderly parents to tell them to stay home because they might be attacked by racists. There's no justification for racial slurs, physical violence orvandalism against any individual or community. I will continue to work together with other elected officials, the police and the RCMP to mitigate these issues toward justice and restoration.The Chair: We'll go on to Mr.Angus. Mr. Angus, please proceed.Mr. Charlie Angus (TimminsJames Bay, NDP): Ten years ago today, Cree youth leader Shannen Koostachin was killed in a horrific car accident. She was only 15 years old, yet in hershort life she became the voice of a generation of first nation youth who were no longer willing to put up with systemic discrimination. Shannen had never seen a real school. Children in Attawapiskat were beingeducated in squalid conditions. Her fight for their dignity and rights launched the largest youth-driven civil rights movement in Canadian history. At 14 she was nominated for the International Children's Peace Prize.Shannen never lived to see the school that was built in her community, but her work carries on through the Shannen's Dream movement. She is a role model for youth activists across this country. A movie, two booksand a statue are dedicated to her. She's been recognized as one of the 150 most influential women in Canadian history. I had the honour to know Shannen. In fact, I think of her every single day. She truly did comefrom the angels, and one day she returned.The Chair: Mr.Barsalou-Duval, you now have the floor.Mr. Xavier Barsalou-Duval (Pierre-BoucherLes PatriotesVerchres, BQ): Mr.Chair, for months now, thousands ofconsumers who need money to pay their bills have been fighting against airlines and the government to have their rights respected: three class action suits, a unanimous motion by the National Assembly and over30,000signatures on a petition calling for reimbursement for cancelled flights. It isn't a whim to enforce the law. Air Canada, which confiscated $2.6billion from its customers, received more than $800million fromOttawa without any conditions. Yet, the company has a year's worth of cash in reserve, $6billion in its coffers, and is in the process of raising more than $1.4billion in the financial markets. Air Canada has the means toreimburse citizens. It has the money it needs. We're tired of the Minister of Transport's crocodile tears. I consulted the bankruptcy directory this morning and didn't see any airlines listed. Now is the time to work for thepeople.The Chair: Mr.Rayes now has the floor.Mr. Alain Rayes (RichmondArthabaska, CPC): Mr.Chair, I want to pay tribute to a great man who represented the public here, in the House, for close to 15years:MichelGauthier. Michel, in life, we meet a lot of people, but some of them leave their mark on us forever. From the first time I spoke with you two years ago, I immediately understood that I was talking with a man withheart, a passionate man, a man who had Quebec imprinted on his heart. Because of your decision to join the Conservative Party of Canada, I got to know you personally, and I am most grateful. I will remember ourdiscussions on the best ways to communicate our Conservative vision to Quebeckers. I will remember our heated discussions on Quebec-Canada relations. I will remember all the passion and energy you had in thelead-up to a speech to our supporters. Michel, Canadians, Quebeckers and I will remember you forever, the great man you were, the outstanding speaker, a formidable parliamentarian, with integrity, passion,commitment and love for Quebec. I offer my sincere condolences to Anne, and to your family and friends. Rest in peace.The Chair: Mr.Dubourg, you now have the floor.Mr. Emmanuel Dubourg (Bourassa, Lib.):Mr.Chair, the murder of GeorgeFloyd in Minneapolis resonated strongly within black communities in Canada and also in the heart of Montreal North. At a time of pandemic uncertainty when members of our community"}
{"doc_id":"doc_103","qid":"","text":"Sian Thomas: Bore da. Unfortunately, the Chair, Lynne Neagle, is unable to attend today's meeting. Therefore, in accordance with Standing Order 17.22, I call for nominations for a temporary Chair, for the duration ofthe meeting.Julie Morgan AM: I nominate John Griffiths.Sian Thomas: Any further nominations? I therefore declare that John Griffiths has been appointed temporary Chair, and I invite him to chair for the duration oftoday's meeting.John Griffiths AM: Thank you very much. I thank the Members for that. Welcome, everyone, to this meeting of the Children, Young People and Education Committee. The first item on our agenda todayis apologies, substitutions, declarations of interest. Obviously, Lynne Neagle isn't able to be with us today. We haven't received any other apologies. Are there any declarations of interest? No. We will move on then toitem 2 on our agenda, the continuation of our inquiry into targeted funding to improve educational outcomes, and evidence session 8. And I'm very pleased to welcome Estyn here this morning to give evidence to thecommittee. Would you like to introduce yourselves for the record, please?Meilyr Rowlands: Meilyr Rowlands, chief inspector.Claire Morgan: Claire Morgan, strategic director.Simon Brown: Simon Brown, strategicdirector.John Griffiths AM: Okay. Thank you. And welcome again. If it's okay, we'll move straight into questions—we have quite a number of questions to get through this morning. Firstly, Llyr.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Thankyou, Chair, and good morning. I just want to start by asking about your perception of how schools are using the pupil development grant funding, and to what extent they are genuinely targeting that funding exclusivelytowards children eligible for free school meals.Meilyr Rowlands: Thank you for the question. This grant has been targeted far better by now than it was originally. Estyn has made several reports regarding theeffectiveness of the grant, and, really, going back to before this specific grant, to a similar grant, called RAISE. At the start of this grant, the funding was often spent on tackling underachievement, rather than dealingwith the underachievement of children who are eligible for free school meals specifically. But, over a period of time, we have seen that it is targeted much better by now. That's not to say that the targeting is workingperfectly still, and I think that we are seeing examples where the targeting isn't going just to children who receive free school meals. Schools sometimes interpret poverty in a slightly wider way than that. In terms ofwhat schools are doing with the grant, we have given evidence to you of the kinds of things that they are doing. They are tracking progress of pupils, they are trying to improve attendance, they are trying to work withfamilies and the community in general, they're doing work specifically to improve how children are doing in exams, in key stage 4, specifically—a lot of funding is being spent on that—improving the confidence ofstudents, taking students on extra-curricular activities, improving literacy and numeracy. Those are the kinds of activities they're being used for.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Because the research by Ipsos MORI and the WalesInstitute of Social and Economic Research, Data and Methods has shown that there is some kind of blurring—I think that's the term that they use—in terms of who is eligible. But you are relatively comfortable with thefact that there is sufficient targeting happening. You referred to the fact that it is used, perhaps, to reach a slightly wider cohort than just those who are eligible for free school meals, but you do feel that that balance,from your experience, is acceptable.Meilyr Rowlands: Yes, certainly, it has improved a great deal. When I was looking at this initially, the targeting wasn’t happening at all. It was being spent on children who wereunderachieving, and one of the things that we did notice in the first report was that much more funding was being spent on boys than girls. And, of course, that raised the question immediately that it wasn't being spentthen on children who are eligible for free school meals, because those numbers are equal. So, it wasn’t, but it has improved. There is a discussion about who exactly should have it and whether free school meals is thebest definition. So, I think that schools are perhaps not following that exactly, but within the spirit of the grant, I think I’m fairly comfortable. There is a specific question—I don’t know if you are going to askthis—regarding more able and talented pupils.Llyr Gruffydd AM: That's where I was going next.Meilyr Rowlands: So, if there is a cohort of pupils who are missing out on this, they are the more able and talented pupilswho receive free school meals. There are a number of reasons for this, I think. One of them is that there’s still some feeling that less able children should be receiving this grant, children who are underachieving.Schools don’t always identify underachievement of those more able children. It seems that they are doing okay, but if they were given more support, they would do even better.Llyr Gruffydd AM: So, is it a lack ofawareness of the nature of the grant, and that the individual has to be targeted rather than just those who are underachieving? Is that the problem? Or is it the regime that focuses on exam results and the need to drawthose pupils who are underachieving up, rather than incentivising those who are achieving to achieve better?Meilyr Rowlands: A bit of both, I'd say. And the third factor is identifying children who are more able. I thinkthat we have a bit of work to do in that regard. I was in a conference for headteachers last week, where there was new data being discussed, and that data showed the progress of children from a certain point, year 6tests. I think that kind of data will be very useful, because what that data can do is help secondary schools to identify more able children and that they are underachieving. Even though they're doing quite well, that kindof value-added data is very useful. So, I think that that will help as well.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Thank you.John Griffiths AM: Mark, did you want to pursue these matters further?Mark Reckless AM: Yes. I just wanted to askabout the more able and talented stream. It was good to read in your report an increased emphasis on this and to see your awareness of its importance in the PDG as well. Can I just ask—? Would you look at one arearegarding schools' engagement with the Seren network, particularly for the more able and talented, and what more Estyn can do through its inspection criteria and otherwise to encourage this from schools?MeilyrRowlands: Well, I think Estyn has always been very strongly focused on improving the performance of more able pupils. For example, in last year's annual report I raised it, and a lot of the debate around this now, Ithink, was generated by some of the things I've said in previous annual reports. We gave a lot of evidence to the—. Paul Flynn, I think, did the—no, who did the report? Paul Murphy did the report. So, we gave evidenceto that. And on Seren, I'm particularly proud that my alma mater, Jesus College, is a very strong supporter of the Seren work. So, I'm personally quite interested in the work of Seren. And we look at the performance ofmore able pupils in all our inspections. It's a particular part of our inspection framework—looking at the relative performance of different groups. So, we look at the different performance of boys and girls, free schoolmeals and non-free school meals, ethnic minorities, but we also look at the performance of more able pupils in particular, and we question schools about how they provide for the more able pupils, and we've referred toSeren in several of our inspection reports.Mark Reckless AM: And where schools work particularly hard to engage with Seren and take up opportunities from that and push as many pupils as appropriate to work withthat, is that something that you would recognise within your inspection reports? And, on the other side, where schools don't do that, is that something you would pull them up on?Meilyr Rowlands: Yes, we've done that.We've done it in several reports.Claire Morgan: Throughout our inspections, we are looking for best practice, because part of our strategy is always to identify where there are weaknesses, but actually to point schools inthe direction of where they can find a solution. So, capturing different approaches to more able and talented is part of the role of inspection.Mark Reckless AM: Thank you.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Just briefly, you touchedearlier on using the measure of those who are eligible for free school meals as a way to identify children from disadvantaged backgrounds so that you can target this funding. Varied evidence has been given to us onthis. Do you have an opinion on whether that's the best way?Meilyr Rowlands: It certainly is a good way of doing it. There is a strong correlation between children who underachieve and that measure, so it is a strongmeasure. But, there is scope to discuss how exactly it does work. For example, some people say that if you have received free school meals for a period of time and now you're not receiving them, then perhaps youshould still be receiving the funding for a period of time, for example. So, there are ways of fine-tuning that measure, I think. It's worth considering those approaches.John Griffiths AM: Thanks for that. We move onnow to Michelle.Michelle Brown AM: Thank you. Good morning, everyone. You've reported that the proportion of schools making effective use of the PDG remains around two thirds of secondary and primary schools,meaning that a third are still not using that PDG effectively. Why do you think this is?Meilyr Rowlands: I think that sort of proportion broadly corresponds to the schools that don't have particularly good leadership. Ithink, ultimately, all of these sorts of initiatives come down to strong leadership and effective leadership—that they know how to organise and use those grants effectively. One of the shortcomings that we often identifyis evaluation—that money has been spent on a particular way of using the grant, but it has not been evaluated well. So, I think quite a lot of it is to do with generic leadership skills. But those are some of the specificshortcomings to do with evaluation.Michelle Brown AM: Are there any patterns by region or type of school in that?Meilyr Rowlands: I don't think there's any patterns that we've identified in terms of region.ClaireMorgan: As Meilyr said, it's very strongly linked to leadership capacity.Michelle Brown AM: Okay. Thank you. What are the most effective uses of PDG, from your point of view? Is there something in particular that youthink that schools should be focusing on?Meilyr Rowlands: I think there's a lot of evidence on what constitutes good practice in this area. There's the Welsh Government guidance, there's our guidance, there's a lot ofresearch—the Sutton Trust toolkit—and they're the sorts of things I mentioned earlier. I think that more attention does need to be given to the community-focused element of this work. So, schools do a lot ofthings that they are in control of—the things I mentioned earlier: things like improving attendance, offering extra-curricular activities, literacy and numeracy support, tracking pupils—all those sorts of things. But animportant element of this, I think, is engaging with the learners, but also with parents and the community. I think what we've found is that the most effective schools—the ones that really do make a big difference tothis cohort of students—are the ones that do that most effectively.Claire Morgan: I think that there are different situations in different schools, but in the best schools, they evaluate the barriers to learning for theirparticular children. Often we see that engagement with communities is part of that engagement with families. In Brackla Primary School, in Bridgend, they've got Families at Brackla, and it's a range of activities toengage with families. Families often have had a negative experience of education themselves, and the schools are trying to address some of those concerns. Cefn Hengoed in Swansea, which I'm sure many of you knowabout, have had an extensive strategy for engaging with the community, with the families, and equipping their children to participate in decisions around the curriculum, making them more confident learners. So, it isabout removing the barriers for disadvantaged learners.Michelle Brown AM: Thank you. You've made the comment that secondary schools are focusing too much on key stage 4 and not enough on developing pupils'skills in a sustainable way. Can you expand on that and give us a bit more detail on that, please?Meilyr Rowlands: Yes. I think this is sort of generally accepted now. The latest guidance on the grant now says that 60per cent of it should be spent on key stage 3. I think that acknowledges this general point. But what a lot of schools did with this money was precisely that, to target key stage 4—to have catch-up homework clubs,revision clubs, specifically to get children better GCSE results, and getting C grades, in particular. Of course, that is an important part of your armoury of tools to use, but I think there was too much use of that. Part ofthe problem with that is that it doesn't either develop the long-term transferable skills that those pupils have, or should have, nor does it produce the kinds of skills that the teachers need as well. So, it's kind of a quickwin, a quick-fix solution, while what we feel would be more effective in the long term, and more sustainable in the long term—because if this money goes, then those quick fixes won't be possible—what would be moreeffective in the long term is to improve the curriculum and the pedagogy, the quality of the teaching, the quality of the curriculum, so that children are naturally enthused by what is on offer, that they attend betterbecause they want to be in school, that they want to learn. So, we feel that getting the curriculum right, tailoring the curriculum to the needs of the pupils in that area, and improving teaching, is a more sustainablelong-term solution.Michelle Brown AM: Do you think there's anything in particular driving the focus on the key stage 4?Meilyr Rowlands: Well, again, I think most people would say it is the performance indicators. I thinkthere's a general acknowledgement of that. Again, I said last week—. There was a conference of all the secondary heads in Wales, and that was one of the major discussion points in the conference: how do we get theperformance indicators right so that there are no perverse incentives in it?Michelle Brown AM: To what extent are decisions being made in schools concerning the application of the PDG actually evidence-based? To whatextent are they using research to back up how they're using the PDG or is it effectively just guesswork?Meilyr Rowlands: I think that, of all the areas of school policy, this is the one that's most evidence-based. I thinkthat, generally, schools can do much more about using evidence and research findings, but this particular area is probably the one that schools are strongest at using research in. That's partly because the guidancestrongly suggests that you should do that, but also because there is a lot of easily accessible research evidence available. So, there's a lot of research on this. As I mentioned earlier, the Sutton Trust toolkit is a goodexample where researchers have really tried very hard to simplify all the evidence that exists in a way that schools can use. So, there are little pound signs to show how costly an intervention is and little stars orsomething to show how many months of gain pupils get out of this particular intervention. So, it makes it much easier for schools to make a decision. But I think what's missing is that you can't just take that evidenceas it is, because you have to implement it in your own school, and that then will affect how effective that particular intervention is. Just because it is evaluated by researchers as being generally very effective doesn'tmean that you will necessarily implement it effectively. So, it is therefore important that each school does evaluate. So, there are kind of two sides to using research. There's looking at research, but there's also doingyour own research and evaluating how effectively you have implemented something. I think that's been a weakness.Michelle Brown AM: Thank you.John Griffiths AM: Okay. Hefin David.Hefin David AM: Do you thinkthere's an attendance crisis at key stage 4 for those students eligible for free school meals?Meilyr Rowlands: 'Crisis' is maybe too strong a word, but I think there's been a lot of attention given to attendance, quiterightly. Over a long period of time, I was a member of the national behaviour and attendance review board under Ken Reid about 10 years ago. So, there's been a lot of attention on attendance, and that's veryimportant because attendance has a very strong correlation with outcomes.Hefin David AM: Of those students at key stage 4, 35 per cent of those eligible for free school meals are attending for 95 per cent of the time,whereas it's 60 per cent for their peers. Is the PDG making an impact on that? You've mentioned engagement with the curriculum. What more can be done?Meilyr Rowlands: I think what's happening now is that peopleare targeting their attention on attendance. Attendance has improved in primary and in secondary generally. It has also improved for these cohorts as well, and at a faster rate than the rest of the cohort. So, there havebeen improvements. Nevertheless, I agree with you totally that it is a major, major problem, and that is why schools do use the PDG specifically to improve attendance.Hefin David AM: But you said they've not used itwell enough.Meilyr Rowlands: Did I say that? They are using it, and attendance has improved, and the attendance of this cohort has improved more, but there's still a major, major problem. So, I think there needs to beeven more attention—Hefin David AM: So, what—? I'm looking for specifics. What can be done with the PDG?Meilyr Rowlands: I think, as I said earlier, that these are major social issues. So, I think what can be donethat hasn't been done currently is to give more attention to the community-focused side of schooling. I think the schools that have done well, that have really improved attendance of this particular group of pupils, arethe ones that have taken community relationships very, very seriously and worked with parents.Hefin David AM: Yes, you mentioned working with families when you were answering Llyr. How does that happen,though? What does it look like? If I'm a parent, what does it look like?Meilyr Rowlands: Okay. I'll ask Claire to give you an example. Cefn Hengoed is a good example of a school that has not cracked it but made a lot ofprogress.Claire Morgan: Often, in the best schools, the headteachers consider themselves to be community leaders as well as headteachers, and they often set up arrangements where they engage directly with thefamilies of disadvantaged children or children who are underachieving generally. They try to build very strong relationships with the families so that the school is in a position to either liaise with different agencies or tobring agencies into the school to address some of the issues that are outside school control.Hefin David AM: And where does the PDG come into this, and the use of it?Claire Morgan: This sometimes is used forappointing staff whose role it is to facilitate these arrangements to give one-to-one support to children, to monitor attendance, to visit homes where children are not coming into schools, to try and address what thebarriers are in getting them into classrooms.Hefin David AM: And those lessons you've learned from Cefn Hengoed: how are you going to spread that? How does that get spread?Claire Morgan: Well, we've done it in anumber of ways. Obviously, the first thing we do is the inspection report, and we highlight the practice there. We also have things—. This is an example of our best-practice case studies. We also have conferences aswell, where we invite the headteachers from those schools to come and present to other headteachers. We also tweet, use social media, to try and get the message out there. But there's also—Hefin David AM: This allseems like stuff that's done to teachers. It doesn't seem very engaging.Claire Morgan: Well, it is—. Headteachers tell us that learning about best practice from other headteachers is very, very useful. When we had aconference, and when we looked at leadership and improving schools, Cefn Hengoed, along with a number of other schools, presented, and we had very positive feedback from that. So, it is actually schools learningfrom other schools, and I think the work that the consortia have been doing on school-to-school support as well can contribute to it.Hefin David AM: We're spreading the PDG very thinly now, if we're talking aboutattendance, and then we talk about exclusion as well. Is it possible that it can have an impact on reducing the higher exclusion rates for EFSM students?Claire Morgan: I think it has the potential to. I think all these"}
{"doc_id":"doc_104","qid":"","text":"Grad A: OK . We seem to be recording .Professor G: Alright !Grad A: So , sorry about not {disfmarker}Professor G: We 're not crashing .PhD D: Number four .Grad A: not pre - doing everything . The lunch went a littlelater than I was expecting , Chuck .PhD E: Hmm ?Professor G: OK .PhD B: Chuck was telling too many jokes , or something ?Grad A: Yep . Pretty much .PhD E: Yeah .Professor G: OK . {vocalsound} Does anybody havean agenda ?Grad A: No .Postdoc F: Well , I 'm {disfmarker} I sent a couple of items . They 're {disfmarker} they 're sort of practical .Professor G: I thought {pause} somebody had .Postdoc F: I don't know if you 're{disfmarker}Professor G: Yeah , that 's right .Postdoc F: if {disfmarker} if that 's too practical for what we 're {pause} focused on .Grad A: I mean , we don't want anything too practical .Professor G: Yeah , we onlywant th useless things .Grad A: Yeah , that would be {disfmarker}Professor G: Yeah . No , why don't we talk about practical things ?Postdoc F: OK .Professor G: Sure .Postdoc F: Well , um , I can {pause} give you anupdate on the {pause} transcription effort .Professor G: Great .Postdoc F: Uh , maybe {nonvocalsound} raise the issue of microphone , uh , um procedures with reference to the {pause} cleanliness of the recordings.Professor G: OK , transcription , uh , microphone issues {disfmarker}Postdoc F: And then maybe {nonvocalsound} ask , th uh , these guys . The {disfmarker} we have great {disfmarker} great , uh , p steps forward interms of the nonspeech - speech pre - segmenting of the signal .Professor G: OK .Grad A: Well , we have steps forward .PhD C: Yeah .Postdoc F: Well , it 's a {disfmarker} it 's a big improvement .PhD C: I would preferthis .Professor G: Yes . Yeah , well . OK . Uh {disfmarker}PhD D: We talk about the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the results ofProfessor G: You have some {disfmarker} Yeah .Grad A: I have a little bit of IRAMstuffProfessor G: OK .PhD D: use {disfmarker}Grad A: but {pause} I 'm not sure if that 's of general interest or not .Professor G: Uh , bigram ?Grad A: IRAM .PhD D: IRAM .Professor G: IRAM .Grad A: IRAM , bigram,Professor G: Well , m maybe .PhD D: Bi - Bigram .Grad A: you know .Professor G: Yeah , let 's {disfmarker} let 's see where we are at three - thirty .PhD B: Hmm .Professor G: Um {disfmarker}PhD B: Since , uh{disfmarker} since I have to leave as usual at three - thirty , can we do the interesting stuff first ?Postdoc F: I beg your pardon ?Professor G: Well {disfmarker}PhD C: Which is {disfmarker} ?Grad A: What 's theinteresting stuff ?Postdoc F: I beg your pardon ?PhD D: Yeah .Professor G: Yeah . Th - now you get to tell us what 's the interesting part .PhD E: Please specify .Professor G: But {disfmarker}PhD B: Well , uh , I guessthe work that 's been {pause} done on segmentation would be most {disfmarker}PhD C: Yeah .Postdoc F: I think that would be a good thing to start with .PhD B: Yeah .Professor G: OK . Um , and , um , {vocalsound}the other thing , uh , which I 'll just say very briefly that maybe relates to that a little bit , which is that , um , uh , one of the suggestions that came up in a brief meeting I had the other day when I was in Spain with ,uh , Manolo Pardo and {vocalsound} Javier , uh , Ferreiros , who was {pause} here before , was , um , why not start with what they had before but add in the non - silence boundaries . So , in what Javier did beforewhen they were doing , um {disfmarker} h he was looking for , uh , speaker change {pause} points .PhD D: Mm - hmm .Professor G: Um . As a simplification , he originally did this only using {pause} silence as , uh , a{pause} putative , uh , speaker change point .PhD C: Yeah .Professor G: And , uh , he did not , say , look at points where you were changing broad sp uh , phonetic class , for instance . And for Broadcast News , thatwas fine . Here obviously it 's not .PhD D: Yeah .Professor G: And , um , so one of the things that they were pushing in d in discussing with me is , um , w why are you spending so much time , uh , on the , uh , featureissue , uh , when perhaps if you sort of deal with what you were using beforePhD D: Uh - huh .Professor G: and then just broadened it a bit , instead of just ta using silence as putative change point also {disfmarker}?PhD D: Nnn , yeah .Professor G: So then you 've got {disfmarker} you already have the super - structure with Gaussians and H - you know , simple H M Ms and so forth . And you {disfmarker} you might {disfmarker}So there was a {disfmarker} there was a little bit of a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a difference of opinion because I {disfmarker} I thought that it was {disfmarker} it 's interesting to look at whatfeatures are useful .PhD D: Yeah .Professor G: But , uh , on the other hand I saw that the {disfmarker} they had a good point that , uh , if we had something that worked for many cases before , maybe starting fromthere a little bit {disfmarker} Because ultimately we 're gonna end up {vocalsound} with some s su kind of structure like that ,PhD D: Yeah .Professor G: where you have some kind of simple HMM and you 're testingthe hypothesis that , {vocalsound} uh , there is a change .PhD D: Yeah .Professor G: So {disfmarker} so anyway , I just {disfmarker} reporting that .PhD D: OK .Professor G: But , uh , uh {disfmarker} So . Yeah , whydon't we do the speech - nonspeech discussion ?Postdoc F: Yeah . Do {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I hear {disfmarker} you {disfmarker} you didn't {disfmarker}PhD C: Speech - nonspeech ? OK .Postdoc F: Uh - huh .Yeah .PhD C: Um , so , uh , what we basically did so far was using the mixed file to {disfmarker} to detect s speech or nonspeech {pause} portions in that .Professor G: Mm - hmm .PhD C: And what I did so far is I justused our old Munich system , which is an HMM - ba based system with Gaussian mixtures for s speech and nonspeech . And it was a system which used only one Gaussian for silence and one Gaussian for speech . Andnow I added , uh , multi - mixture possibility for {disfmarker} {vocalsound} for speech and nonspeech .Professor G: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .PhD C: And I did some training on {disfmarker} on one dialogue , whichwas transcribed by {disfmarker} Yeah . We {disfmarker} we did a nons s speech - nonspeech transcription .PhD D: Jose .PhD C: Adam , Dave , and I , we did , for that dialogue and I trained it on that . And I did somepre - segmentations for {disfmarker} for Jane . And I 'm not sure how good they are or what {disfmarker} what the transcribers say . They {disfmarker} they can use it or {disfmarker} ?Postdoc F: Uh , they{disfmarker} they think it 's a terrific improvement . And , um , it real it just makes a {disfmarker} a world of difference .Professor G: Hmm .Postdoc F: And , um , y you also did some something in addition which was ,um , for those in which there {nonvocalsound} was , uh , quiet speakers in the mix .PhD C: Yeah . Uh , yeah . That {disfmarker} that was one {disfmarker} one {disfmarker} one thing , uh , why I added more mixturesfor {disfmarker} for the speech . So I saw that there were loud {disfmarker} loudly speaking speakers and quietly speaking speakers .Professor G: Mm - hmm .PhD C: And so I did two mixtures , one for the loudspeakers and one for the quiet speakers .Grad A: And did you hand - label who was loud and who was quiet , or did you just {disfmarker} ?PhD C: I did that for {disfmarker} for five minutes of one dialogueGrad A:Right .PhD C: and that was enough to {disfmarker} to train the system .PhD B: W What {disfmarker} ?PhD D: Yeah .PhD C: And so it {disfmarker} it adapts , uh , on {disfmarker} while running . So .PhD B: What kindof , uh , front - end processing did you do ?PhD C: Hopefully .PhD D: OK .PhD C: It 's just our {disfmarker} our old Munich , uh , loudness - based spectrum on mel scale twenty {disfmarker} twenty critical bands andthen loudness .PhD B: Mm - hmm .PhD C: And four additional features , which is energy , loudness , modified loudness , and zero crossing rate . So it 's twenty - four {disfmarker} twenty - four features .PhD B: Mmm.Professor G: Mm - hmm .Postdoc F: And you also provided me with several different versions ,PhD C: Yeah .Postdoc F: which I compared .PhD C: Yeah .Postdoc F: And so you change {nonvocalsound} parameters .What {disfmarker} do you wanna say something about the parameters {nonvocalsound} that you change ?PhD C: Yeah . You can specify {vocalsound} the minimum length of speech or {disfmarker} and silenceportions which you want . And so I did some {disfmarker} some modifications in those parameters , basically changing the minimum {disfmarker} minimum {pause} length for s for silence to have , er to have , um{disfmarker} yeah {disfmarker} to have more or less , uh , silence portions in inserted . So .Grad A: Right . So this would work well for , uh , pauses and utterance boundaries and things like that .PhD D: Yeah .PhD C:Yeah . Yeah .Grad A: But for overlap I imagine that doesn't work at all ,PhD C: Yeah .PhD D: Yeah .Grad A: that you 'll have plenty of s sections that are {disfmarker}PhD C: Yeah .PhD D: Yeah .PhD C: That 's it . Yeah.Postdoc F: Mm - hmm , mm - hmm .PhD D: Yeah .Grad A: But {disfmarker}Postdoc F: That 's true . But {nonvocalsound} it {disfmarker} it saves so much time {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the {nonvocalsound}transcribersProfessor G: Um {disfmarker}Grad A: Yep .Postdoc F: just enormous , enormous savings . Fantastic .Professor G: That 's great . Um , just qu one quickly , uh , still on the features . So {vocalsound} youhave these twenty - four features .PhD C: Yeah .Professor G: Uh , a lot of them are spectral features . Is there a {disfmarker} a transformation , uh , like principal components transformation or something ?PhD C: No.Grad A: Yeah . It was IS two .PhD C: No . W w we {disfmarker} originally we did thatProfessor G: Just {disfmarker}PhD C: but we saw , uh , when we used it , uh , f for our close - talking microphone , which{disfmarker} yeah , for our {disfmarker} for our recognizer in Munich {disfmarker} we saw that w it 's {disfmarker} it 's not {disfmarker} it 's not so necessary . It {disfmarker} it works as well f with {disfmarker}with {disfmarker} without , uh , a LDA or something .Professor G: OK . OK . No , I was j {pause} curious .PhD C: Yeah .Postdoc F: Mm - hmm .Professor G: Yeah , I don't think it 's a big deal for this application ,PhD C:Yeah .PhD D: Right .Professor G: but {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} Yeah , it 's a {disfmarker}Postdoc F: Mm - hmm . OK . But then there 's another thing that also Thilo 's involved with , which is , um {disfmarker} OK, and {disfmarker} and also Da - Dave Gelbart . So there 's this {disfmarker} this problem of {disfmarker} and w and {disfmarker} so we had this meeting . Th - the {nonvocalsound} {disfmarker} also Adam , beforethe {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} before you went away . Uh we , um {disfmarker} regarding the representation {nonvocalsound} of overlaps , because at present , {nonvocalsound} {vocalsound} um , because{nonvocalsound} of the limitations of {vocalsound} th the interface we 're using , overlaps are , uh , not being {nonvocalsound} encoded by {nonvocalsound} the transcribers in as complete {nonvocalsound} and , uh ,detailed a way as it might be , and as might be desired {disfmarker} I think would be desired in the corpus ultimately .Professor G: Mm - hmm .Postdoc F: So we don't have start and end points {nonvocalsound} ateach point where there 's an overlap . We just have the {disfmarker} the {nonvocalsound} overlaps {nonvocalsound} encoded in a simple bin . Well , OK . So {nonvocalsound} @ @ the limits of the {nonvocalsound}over of {disfmarker} of the interface are {vocalsound} such that we were {disfmarker} at this meeting we were entertaining how we might either expand {nonvocalsound} the {disfmarker} the {vocalsound} interfaceor find other tools which already {pause} do what would be useful . Because what would ultimately be , um , ideal in my {disfmarker} my view and I think {disfmarker} I mean , I had the sense that it was consensus ,is that , um , a thorough - going musical score notation would be {nonvocalsound} the best way to go . Because {nonvocalsound} you can have multiple channels , there 's a single time - line , it 's very clear , flexible ,and all those nice things .Professor G: Mm - hmm .Postdoc F: OK . So , um , um , I spoke {disfmarker} I had a meeting with Dave Gelbart on {disfmarker} on {disfmarker} and he had , uh , excellent ideas on how{pause} the interface could be {pause} modified to {disfmarker} to do this kind of representation . But , um , he {disfmarker} in the meantime you were checking into the existence of already , um , existing interfaceswhich might already have these properties . So , do you wanna say something about that ?PhD C: Yes . Um , I {vocalsound} talked with , uh , Munich guys from {disfmarker} from Ludwi - Ludwig Maximilians University, who do a lot of transcribing and transliterations .Professor G: Mm - hmm .PhD C: And they basically said they have {disfmarker} they have , uh , a tool they developed {pause} themselves and they can't give away ,uh , f it 's too error - prone , and had {disfmarker} it 's not supported , a a a and {disfmarker}Professor G: Yeah .PhD C: But , um , Susanne Bur - Burger , who is at se CMU , he wa who was formally at {disfmarker} inMunich and w and is now at {disfmarker} with CMU , she said she has something which she uses to do eight channels , uh , trans transliterations , eight channels simultaneously ,Professor G: Excuse me .PhD C: but it 'srunning under Windows .Postdoc F: Under Windows .PhD C: So I 'm not sure if {disfmarker} if {disfmarker} if we can use it .Postdoc F: Mm - hmm .PhD C: She said she would give it to us .Postdoc F: Mm - hmm .PhDC: It wouldn't be a problem . And I 've got some {disfmarker} some kind of manual {pause} down in my office .Grad A: Well , maybe we should get it and if it 's good enough we 'll arrange Windows machines to beavailable .PhD C: Yeah .Postdoc F: Mm - hmm . We could {disfmarker} uh , potentially {nonvocalsound} so .Grad A: So .Postdoc F: I also wanted to be sure {disfmarker} I mean , I 've {disfmarker} I 've seen the{disfmarker} this {disfmarker} this is called Praat , PRAAT , {nonvocalsound} which I guess means spee speech in Dutch or something .Grad A: Yep .PhD C: Yeah , but then I 'm not sure {pause} that 's the right thingfor us .Postdoc F: But {disfmarker} In terms {nonvocalsound} of it being {nonvocalsound} Windows {nonvocalsound} versus {disfmarker}Professor G: Yeah .Grad A: No , no . Praat isn't {disfmarker} Praat 's multi -platform .Postdoc F: But I 'm just wondering , is {disfmarker} ?PhD C: No . No , Praat {disfmarker} Yeah . Yeah .Postdoc F: Oh ! I see .PhD C: Yeah .Postdoc F: Oh , I see . So Praat may not be {disfmarker}PhD C:That 's not Praat . It 's called \" trans transedit \" {pause} I think .Postdoc F: It 's a different one .PhD C: The {disfmarker} the , uh {disfmarker} the tool from {disfmarker} from Susanne .Postdoc F: I see . Oh , I see .OK . OK . Alright .Professor G: The other thing , uh , to keep in mind , uh {disfmarker} I mean , we 've been very concerned to get all this rolling so that we would actually have data ,Postdoc F: Mmm , yeah .ProfessorG: but , um , I think our outside sponsor is actually gonna kick inPostdoc F: Mm - hmm .Professor G: and ultimately that path will be smoothed out . So I don't know if we have a long - term need to do lots and lots oftranscribing . I think we had a very quick need to get something out and we 'd like to be able to do some later because just it 's inter it 's interesting . But as far a you know , uh , with {disfmarker} with any luck we 'llbe able to wind down the larger project .Grad A: Oh .PhD B: But you sGrad A: What our decision was is that {pause} we 'll go ahead with what we have with a not very fine time scale on the overlaps .PhD C: Yeah.Professor G: Right . Yeah .Grad A: And {disfmarker} and do what we can later {pause} to clean that up if we need to .Postdoc F: Mm - hmm .Professor G: Right .Postdoc F: And {disfmarker} and I was just thinkingthat , um , {vocalsound} if it were possible to bring that in , like , {vocalsound} you know , this week , then {nonvocalsound} when they 're encoding the overlaps {nonvocalsound} it would be nice for them to be ableto specify when {disfmarker} you know , the start points and end points of overlaps .Professor G: Uh - huh .Postdoc F: uh Th - they 're {nonvocalsound} making really quick progress .Professor G: Yeah . That 's great.Postdoc F: And , um , so my {disfmarker} my goal was {disfmarker} w m my charge was to get eleven hours by the end of the month . And it 'll be {disfmarker} I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm clear that we'll be able to do that .Professor G: That 's great .Grad A: And did you , uh , forward Morgan Brian 's {pause} thing ?Professor G: Yeah .Postdoc F: I sent {nonvocalsound} it to , um {disfmarker} who did I send that to ?I sent it to a list and I thought {nonvocalsound} I sent it to {nonvocalsound} the {nonvocalsound} {disfmarker} e to the local list .PhD E: Meeting Recorder .Grad A: Oh , you did ? OK . So you probably did get that.Postdoc F: You saw that ? So Brian did tell {nonvocalsound} me that {nonvocalsound} in fact what you said , that , {nonvocalsound} uh {disfmarker} that {nonvocalsound} our {disfmarker} that they are {pause}making progress and that he 's going {disfmarker} that {nonvocalsound} they 're {nonvocalsound} going {disfmarker} he 's gonna check the f the output of the first transcription and {disfmarker} and{disfmarker}Professor G: I mean , basically it 's {disfmarker} it 's all the difference in the world . I mean , basically he 's {disfmarker} he 's on it now .Grad A: Yeah .Postdoc F: Oh , that 's {disfmarker} this is a newdevelopment .Professor G: So {disfmarker} so {disfmarker} so this is {disfmarker} so i it 'll happen .Postdoc F: OK . Super . Super . OK . Great .Professor G: Yeah . I mean , basically it 's just saying that one of our{disfmarker} one of our best people is on it ,Postdoc F: Yeah .Professor G: you know , who just doesn't happen to be here anymore . Someone else pays him . So {disfmarker}PhD B: But about the need fortranscription ,Postdoc F: Isn't that great ?PhD B: I mean , don't we {disfmarker} didn't we previously {vocalsound} decide that the {pause} IBM {pause} transcripts would have to be {pause} checked anyway andpossibly augmented ?Professor G: So . {vocalsound} Yeah .Postdoc F: Yes . That 's true .PhD B: So , I think having a good tool is worth something no matter what .Postdoc F: Mm - hmm .Professor G: Yeah . S OK .That 's {disfmarker} that 's a good point .Grad A: Yeah , and Dave Gelbart did volunteer ,Postdoc F: Good .Grad A: and since he 's not here , I 'll repeat it {disfmarker} to at least modify Transcriber , which , if we don'thave something else that works , I think that 's a pretty good way of going .PhD C: Mmm .Postdoc F: Mm - hmm .Grad A: And we discussed on some methods to do it . My approach originally , and I 've already hackedon it a little bit {disfmarker} it was too slow because I was trying to display all the waveforms . But he pointed out that you don't really have to . I think that 's a good point .Postdoc F: Mm - hmm .Professor G: Mm -hmm .Grad A: That if you just display the mix waveform and then have a user interface for editing the different channels , that 's perfectly sufficient .Professor G: Hmm .Postdoc F: Yeah , exactly . And just keep those{nonvocalsound} things separate . And {disfmarker} and , um , Dan Ellis 's hack already allows them to be {nonvocalsound} able to display {vocalsound} different {nonvocalsound} waveforms to clarify overlaps andthings ,Grad A: No . They can only display one ,Postdoc F: so that 's already {disfmarker}Grad A: but they can listen to different ones .Postdoc F: Oh , yes , but {disfmarker} Well , {vocalsound} uh , yes , but{nonvocalsound} what I mean is {pause} that , uh , from the transcriber 's {nonvocalsound} perspective , uh , those {nonvocalsound} two functions are separate . And Dan Ellis 's hack handles the , {vocalsound} um, choice {nonvocalsound} {disfmarker} the ability to choose different waveforms {vocalsound} from moment to moment .Grad A: But only to listen to , not to look at .PhD C: Yeah .Postdoc F: Um {disfmarker}Grad A:The waveform you 're looking at doesn't change .PhD C: Yeah .Postdoc F: That 's true .Grad A: Yeah .Postdoc F: Yeah , but {nonvocalsound} that 's {disfmarker} that 's OK , cuz they 're {disfmarker} they 're , youknow , they 're focused on the ear anyway .Grad A: Right .Postdoc F: And then {disfmarker} and thenProfessor G: Hmm .Postdoc F: the hack to {vocalsound} preserve the overlaps {nonvocalsound} better would beone which creates different output files for each channel ,Grad A: Right .Postdoc F: which then {nonvocalsound} would also serve Liz 's request {pause} of having , you know , a single channel , separable , uh , cleanly ,"}
{"doc_id":"doc_105","qid":"","text":"Marketing: {vocalsound} That went well , thank you .Project Manager: That's great .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} 'Kay .Marketing: Perfect .Project Manager: Alright , let me just PowerPoint this up . {vocalsound}{vocalsound} {vocalsound} Right so um this meeting will be about the conceptual design , don't ask me s precisely what conceptual design is , it's just something important that we need to do . Um , think of it{disfmarker} 's kind of uh turning the abstract into slightly more concrete . In this meeting ideally we'll come to some final decisions on what we're gonna do for the prototype . Um . Right so um , apologies for the lastmeeting , it was brought to my attention that I did not make the roles clear enough , um , so I will attempt to do so more accurately in this particular meeting . Um , fair enough , thanks for the input , 's always good .Um . So , basically all we're gonna do is have some presentations again much like last time , um , and gonna go through you , uh whoever wants to go first is f fine by me um and we'll collate what we know about umwhat we discussed in the last meeting , possible directions . {vocalsound} And then we'll make some more decisions on um basic uh firm up our idea on how we want this remote control to look and work . So , perfect .So , without th further ado , whoever wants to go first is free to .Industrial Designer: I'll go first .Project Manager: Alright Nathan ,Marketing: Go ahead .Project Manager: take it away . It is Nathan right ? I'm not callingyou the wrong name over and over again ?Industrial Designer: No Nathan's fine .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Good .Industrial Designer: It's either Nathan or participant two .ProjectManager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Mister participant two that is . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Uh .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Nice .Industrial Designer:Okay . Um ,Project Manager: Nice .Industrial Designer: basically what I'm gonna have to talk to you about today is um component design and it's been brought to my attention that we may be somewhat limited as towhat we can do because of what our manufacturer offers ,Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: so {disfmarker} Basically what I'm gonna be doing is talking to you about that . Um , components of a remotecontrol , okay . We've already kind of gone over this but we're gonna have to get into more detail and probably have to reach some conclusions some time soon . Energy source , um , our manufacturer offers a varietyof energy sources , your standard battery , solar cells . Our manufacturer didn't say anything about lithium so we might have to look {disfmarker} if we do go that route , we might have to look elsewhere . Um , andalso there's a kinetic energy possibility . Basically , it's like a um {disfmarker} the idea of moving the remote would create enough energy to keep it running . So that's one possibility but I don't know whether thatwould be powerful enough to illuminate a touch screen .Project Manager: Hmm .Industrial Designer: So we'll have to look into that .Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: Um , the case , we have a few options , plastic ,rubber or wood . Um and then as far as the way it's shaped , we can do standard boring flat , which we probably don't wanna do , curved or very sexy double curved .Project Manager: What kind of th thickness are welooking at ?Industrial Designer: Um , I imagine that we could specify . Um , I don't see any reason to go outside of the convention of three or four millimetres . Yeah .Project Manager: Okay , brilliant .IndustrialDesigner: Um , the buttons , there are multiple scroll buttons available from our manufacturer , but to use those we'd have to use more chips , um and that would cost us more . And if we do go with the rubber doubledcurved case um we'll have to use rubber push buttons because the other buttons aren't compatible with that .Project Manager: Hmm .Industrial Designer: Um and just a little note there ,Marketing: Right .IndustrialDesigner: touch screen equals many chips which equals many Euro .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Right . Nice .Industrial Designer: Um , one thing that I noticed was that most remotesoperate on a infrare on the infrared part of the spectrum . So you notice when you push a button on a remote you can't see anything coming out of it but in fact there is light coming out of the remote and you know thetelevision can detect that . And if you were to record {disfmarker} if you were to make a video recording you could actually see the light . Uh one thing that I thought might be interesting was to use part {disfmarker}use visible light coming out of the remote , just kind of as a fun gimmick .Project Manager: Hmm .Industrial Designer: So you could actually see something coming out of the remote when you pushed it .Marketing:Interesting .Industrial Designer: Course it'd have to be a part of the spectrum that wouldn't damage the human eye or anything like that .Project Manager: {vocalsound} M Maybe {disfmarker}User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: Mm . Good call .Project Manager: is there an option that we can have that off or on so a person can select like {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Choose it .Industrial Designer:I am sure that we could do that . Um , of course {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah I like the idea , it's a good idea .Industrial Designer: Yeah , just as a fun gimmick .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Justto set us apart a little bit . Um , and then on to the circuit board that we're gonna use , also known as the chip . Uh , we really don't have any way around the T_A_ one one eight three five .Project Manager:{vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Um findings , okay , we're very limited by what our current manufacturers can offer , um and my question to all of you is , should we look to othermanufacturies or should we just make do with what we have available ?User Interface: Interesting question .Industrial Designer: 'S a bit of a challenge question .Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: Yes .Marketing:Well I'd say shop around but with our time constraints , is that really a feasible option ?Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: Right , that's my concern too . Um , if we do go the lithium battery route then we'llhave to go outside our current manufacturer . My personal preference is {disfmarker} I'll just throw my cards on the table , uh I think we should probably go the solar battery route , just to kinda keep with theenvironmentally friendly theme that we have going on . Uh , I like the idea of the visible light signalling , that's something to set us apart and uh I was thinking about {disfmarker} I was thinking of ways that we couldproduce the remote in a variety of different case materials to suit different tastes . So we're not so confined by one style and say some {disfmarker} you know , say our {disfmarker} the one {disfmarker}Marketing:Right .Industrial Designer: if we just go with one and it doesn't go over well then we're in a bad situation .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: Right .Project Manager: Can we do marketing piloting too ? Try to see whatkind {disfmarker} before we launch {disfmarker} can we see how they're received ?Marketing: Um {disfmarker} It's an option , uh but actually there's {disfmarker} I've got some research already on like what we'relooking at and trends in casing right nowProject Manager: Okay . Okay .Marketing: which actually might even come into play beforehand ,Project Manager: Okay , perfect .Marketing: it may help us decide for now .Temporarily anyway .Project Manager: Great , thank you very much Nathan .Industrial Designer: Oh yeah , you're welcome .Project Manager: That's perfect , so I guess that makes sense for you to take it from here.Marketing: {vocalsound} I guess so , 'cause I found some interesting things . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Did you ?{vocalsound}Marketing: You waiting for me ? {vocalsound}Project Manager: Fascinating , compelling even .Marketing: I know , what a teaser ain't it . Um . {vocalsound} Right . SoUser Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: current market trends . Screen . Um , basically I was looking at what's going on in the remote control market right now and what's going on in other design fields , to see sort of what's what'strendy , what's new , what's happening . Um , remote control right now {disfmarker} basically everybody says they want newer , fancier , more exciting {disfmarker} they're sick of this boring , normal , functional , um{disfmarker} that we need innovative design options and there needs to be an easy user interface . Um the challenge is that current trends right now , across the board in fashion , in furniture , in technology , is a veryorganic fruit and vegetable kind of thing .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: Now I'm not saying we should have , you know , tomato shaped remote controls or anything , but I think it is possible maybe to use um natural colours , like if wood is an option , that wholeorganic , sleek , clean ,Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: v line thing may be something we can look into . Different skin options , or if we can't afford this touch plate thing , or touch face screen interface um , maybehaving the b images be specific , like you could choose your menu bullets to beProject Manager: {vocalsound} Tomatoes . {vocalsound}Marketing: a different shapeIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: or {vocalsound} okay , not the example I would choose , but you know what I mean to t sort of {disfmarker} and th apparently the feel of the next couple of years is spongy ,Project Manager:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Mm . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} I like it , I like it . {vocalsound}Marketing: uh not something I I've come up with a {gap} though if we can get around to gettingpiloting , I thought maybe a casing option like uh not like a skin , but like a holder almost if you could do like um , leather options or wood options or something {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Hmm . I should havementioned this um . As far as the rubber that we can use {disfmarker} we can use a rubber as part of the case ,Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: it has a consistency of those stress balls .User Interface: Yes.Marketing: Mm . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Slick , slick .User Interface: Fabulous .Marketing: Might be an interesting way to go . Um , yeah so something to sit on for now . So overall I think we should stick withwhat we're finding , everyone's looking for easy to use , technologically innovative and this fancy new {disfmarker} I think perhaps the double curve thing and maybe this rubber option is our best way to go for rightnow .Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: {vocalsound} Um .Project Manager: Interface , oh the interface graphics for the um {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah . Um . Well I d but then if the touch screenthing isn't gonna work out for us that's really a non-issue .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: I like the idea of of rubber too because it's {disfmarker} tends to be associated with being durable , something thatyou can drop and it doesn't matter .Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: 'Cause so many {disfmarker}Marketing: True .Industrial Designer: you go to so many houses these days and you see broken remotecontrols .Marketing: Very true . Very true .Project Manager: Yeah , it's like , yep {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Taped with duck tape and what have you ,Marketing: Very much so {vocalsound} . UmIndustrialDesigner: you wouldn't have that problem if you used rubber .Project Manager: it's ubiquitous isn't it ?User Interface: We can have a duck tape casing .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: We could .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: I think that goes against the whole fancy something , a new line ,Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} It could gowith the granola crowd .Marketing: but worth a shot .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Ah , it could be , it could be ,Project Manager:{vocalsound} Great ,Marketing: um . Yeah that's what I know .Project Manager: thanks for that Sarah .Marketing: No problem .Project Manager: Ron ?User Interface: Phew . Computer's adjusting . One moment please. So interme interface concept by your faithful user interface designer .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: So yur user interface , guys , is basicallyaspects of a computer system that we can see or hear , or otherwise uh perceive . Uh , commands and mechanisms , that basically user uses to control the operator operating system . Here's a d series of differentremote controlsIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: that are out on the market today . I think we're definitely trying to get away from this kind of a look .Project Manager: YeahUser Interface: Um , so thefollowing are a bunch of different uh interface uh concepts . Uh voice recognition , we we um actually have some new uh information from our research design team but uh I'll get to that in a moment . Um , so currentvoice recognition starts up to about eighty speech samples , um and basically you record your own verbal labels c and connect them to the remote control . Now our design team , research team , has been able to uhset up a system in which uh you can teach the remote control voice c recognition system to respond to um {disfmarker} with standard responses . Like you could say good morning uh remote control and it'll say in asexy female voice , Good morning Joe . Um .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} In fact we alreadyhave this for a coffee maker lineMarketing: {vocalsound} Mm .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Lot of single people on the um on the re on the remote control research teamUser Interface: {vocalsound} On the remotecontrolIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: at the {gap} {vocalsound}User Interface: right .Marketing: Yeah . Very true , very true .User Interface: Um , another concept is what uh Applehas come up with , the spinning wheel with uh L_C_ display like on the uh iPodProject Manager: Mm .User Interface: which I am sure most of you know about .Marketing: Mm .User Interface: Um and then we have thescroll button with integrated push-button , kind of like a modern {gap} a bit bulky , a bit crazy ,Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: I don't think that's we're necessarily going for .IndustrialDesigner: No .User Interface: And uh some special components , uh ideas like uh blocking , having the ability to block channels from your {disfmarker} for your children um and uh dedicated buttons for for commonlyused uh channels and even uh ideas like secured or hidden programming but uh I {disfmarker} again if we go with touch screen I don't think that's a big issue . Um and uh this is kind of the uh the big daddy of remotecontrols here .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Hmm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh the jumbo universal remote control is almost impossible to misplace or lose.Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Yeah , I can see . {vocalsound}User Interface: Um , again probably not what we're going forMarketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: so I {disfmarker} I mean my ideashere and kind of where I think we're heading is something slightly larger than a regular iPod uh with a hard cla c uh plastic casingMarketing: Okay .User Interface: although I think some of the suggestions we've comeup with are definitely uh very good ideas . Uh changeable casings uh {disfmarker} our design team was possibly talking about including one extra face plate with the package to kind of set the idea that you can changeit and you can try changing itMarketing: Mm , right .User Interface: and kind of get used to thinking about maybe buying another one which can add value to our uh bottom line . Uh touch screen interface , um possiblyhaving go-to buttons being uh stuck into the system so those don't move away from the screen , uh , the important ones like power , volume and jump between channels . Um , and of course our voice commandsystem which I've talked a little bit about alreadyProject Manager: Mm .User Interface: and uh the use of recognisable colours and shapes to aid recognition of the features um that are around so red for power , umarrows for different volume ups and downs and channels ups and downs and what not .Marketing: Mm .User Interface: And uh perhaps even adding in some stupid little jokes with the voice recognition idea like perhmm for instance my toastie maker that I got from my bankMarketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: has jokes when it's ready .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Nice .Project Manager: Great.User Interface: And uh that is about it .Project Manager: Great , wonderful Ron , cool . Lot of good ideas , good facts to have .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: That's what they need , it's like a little dongle it juststicks up this further so you don't have to stand up every time , just connect it , my kingdom .Industrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: Right so , good toknow all that stuff , thanks guys , um . {vocalsound} Now we kind of have to come to some decisions , um , I figure we can just go down the line and all three of us can have a chat about it . Um . Based on what Nathanpresented as far as the um {vocalsound} various costs and benefits um I think , I dunno , what do you guys think about the touch screen at this point ?Marketing: I think it's our most marketable feature just becauseit's so new and it's something that is showing up in other places .Project Manager: 'Kay . 'Kay .Marketing: But can we really afford it 'cause it looks like they would be , that would be a really main cost source thenProjectManager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: right ?Industrial Designer: My estimate is that in order to incorporate touch screen technology it's gonna cost us upwards of seventeen fifty Euro per remote ,Project Manager: Toproduce each one .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Per ?Industrial Designer: yeah that's just an estimate though .Marketing: Piece .User Interface: Oh you guys are always the dampers on these projects.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I knowProject Manager: Mm .User Interface: You industrial designers . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I know .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Hmm.Industrial Designer: It's fun . {vocalsound}Marketing: And our goal was to be under twelve fifty or we have to be under twelve fifty ?Project Manager: Well .Marketing: Do we remember ?Industrial Designer: I thoughtthere was some flexibility with that .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: There is , it's just , it is a question of {disfmarker} and how much ca o does that mean we're gonna have to increase the price to make money.Marketing: Can we justify it ?Project Manager: Um , from twelve fifty if we d wanna get our fift uh hundred per cent profit margin {vocalsound} um that would mean selling it from twenty five . If you multiplyseventeen fifty by two that's thirty five .Marketing: Right .Project Manager: So {disfmarker}User Interface: Where do you guys come up with these numbers ?Industrial Designer: That's just off the top of my head,Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} From the board ,Industrial Designer: it is pending further emails . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Right .Project Manager: um , well {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing: Though I think that's what people would pay for ,User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: I mean if you're gonna pay for an expensive high class remote , you're gonna expect it to do something {disfmarker}Project Manager: That's true , I mean {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: It isthe new {disfmarker} it would be in a class of its own .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound} And that's {disfmarker} to be fair the um the per cent of the market {disfmarker} we're not going for mass anyyou know , mass sales anyway , we're gonna make {disfmarker} I mean we we're not talking about selling eight zillion of these things , we just couldn't , not for twenty-five Euros ,Marketing: Right .Project Manager: so"}
{"doc_id":"doc_106","qid":"","text":"Professor A: OK .Grad B: OK we 're on and we seem to be working .PhD C: Yes .Professor A: OK .Grad B: We didn't crash {disfmarker} we 're not crashing anymorePhD C: One , two , three , four , fGrad B: and it reallybothers me .Professor A: Yeah ?PhD C: No crashing .PhD G: I do . I crashed when I started this morning .Grad B: You crashed {disfmarker} crashed this morning ? I did not crash this morning .PhD C: Yeah ?ProfessorA: Oh ! Well maybe it 's just , you know , how many t u u u u how many times you crash in a day .PhD G: Really ? Yeah . Maybe , yeah .Professor A: First time {disfmarker} first time in the day , you know .PhD G: Ormaybe it 's once you 've {pause} done enough meetings {comment} it won't crash on you anymore .PhD E: Yeah .PhD C: No ?Postdoc F: Yeah .PhD G: It 's a matter of experience .PhD E: Yeah .Professor A: Yeah.Postdoc F: Self - learning , yeah .Professor A: That 's {disfmarker} that 's great .PhD G: Yeah .Professor A: Uh .PhD C: Yeah .Professor A: Do we have an agenda ? Liz {disfmarker} Liz and Andreas can't sh can't{disfmarker} uh , can't come .Grad B: I do .Professor A: So , they won't be here .Grad B: I have agenda and it 's all me .PhD G: Did {disfmarker}Grad B: Cuz no one sent me anything else .PhD G: Did they send , uh ,the messages to you about the meeting today ?Grad B: I have no idea but I just got it a few minutes ago .PhD G: Oh .Grad B: Right when you were in my office it arrived .PhD G: Oh . OK , cuz I checked my mail . Ididn't have anything .Grad B: So , does anyone have any a agenda items other than me ? I actually have one more also which is to talk about the digits .Professor A: Uh , right , so {disfmarker} so I {disfmarker} I wasjust gonna talk briefly about the NSF ITR .PhD C: Mm - hmm . Yeah .Grad B: Oh , great .Professor A: Uh , and then , you have {disfmarker}Postdoc F: Can wProfessor A: I mean , I won't say much , but {disfmarker}{comment} uh , but then , uh , you said {disfmarker} wanna talk about digits ?Grad B: I have a short thing about digits and then uh I wanna talk a little bit about naming conventions , although it 's unclear whetherthis is the right place to talk about it . So maybe just talk about it very briefly and take the details to the people who {disfmarker} for whom it 's relevant .Professor A: Right .PhD C: Yeah .Postdoc F: I could always saysomething about transcription . I 've been {disfmarker} {vocalsound} but {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} uh , well {disfmarker}Professor A: Well if we {disfmarker} Yeah , we shouldn't add things in just to add thingsin . I 'm actually pretty busy today ,Postdoc F: Yeah .Professor A: so if we can {disfmarker} {comment} {vocalsound} we {disfmarker}Postdoc F: Yeah , yeah , yeah .Professor A: a short meeting would be fine .PostdocF: This does sound like we 're doing fine , yeah . That won't do .Grad B: So the only thing I wanna say about digits is , we are pretty much done with the first test set . There are probably forms here and there that aremarked as having been read that weren't really read . So I won't really know until I go through all the transcriber forms and extract out pieces that are in error . So I wa Uh . Two things . The first is what should we doabout digits that were misread ? My opinion is , um , we should just throw them out completely , and have them read again by someone else . You know , the grouping is completely random ,PhD C: Uh - huh .Grad B:so it {disfmarker} it 's perfectly fine to put a {disfmarker} a group together again of errors and have them re - read , just to finish out the test set .Postdoc F: Oh ! By {disfmarker} throw them out completely ?Grad B:Um , the other thing you could do is change the transcript to match what they really said . So those are {disfmarker} those are the two options .PhD C: Yeah .Postdoc F: Mm - hmm .Professor A: But there 's oftenthings where people do false starts . I know I 've done it , where I say {disfmarker} say a {disfmarker}Grad B: What the transcribers did with that is if they did a correction , and they eventually did read the right string, {comment} you extract the right string .PhD G: Oh , you 're talking about where they completely read the wrong string and didn't correct it ?PhD E: Yeah .Grad B: Yeah . And didn't notice . Which happens in a fewplaces .PhD E: Yeah .PhD G: Ah .PhD C: Yeah .Grad B: So {disfmarker} so {disfmarker}Postdoc F: Well , and s and you 're talking string - wise , you 're not talking about the entire page ?Grad B: Correct .PhD E: Yeah.Postdoc F: I get it .Grad B: And so the {disfmarker} the two options are change the transcript to match what they really said , but then {disfmarker} but then the transcript isn't the Aurora test set anymore . I don'tthink that really matters because the conditions are so different . And that would be a little easier .PhD G: Well how many are {disfmarker} how {disfmarker} how often does that happen ?Grad B: Mmm , five or sixtimes .PhD G: Oh , so it 's not very much .Grad B: No , it 's not much at all .PhD G: Seems like we should just change the transcriptsPhD E: Yeah .Grad B: OK .PhD G: to match .Professor A: Yeah , it 's five or six timesout of {pause} thousands ?PhD C: Yeah .Grad B: Four thousand .Professor A: Four thousand ?PhD C: Four thous Ah ! Four thousand .PhD G: Yeah , it 's {disfmarker}Professor A: Yeah , I would , uh , {vocalsound} takdo the easy way ,PhD G: Yeah .Professor A: yeah .Grad B: OK .PhD C: Yeah .Professor A: It {disfmarker} it 's kinda nice {disfmarker} I mean , wh who knows what studies people will be doing on {disfmarker} onspeaker - dependent thingsPhD C: Mmm .Professor A: and so I think having {disfmarker} having it all {disfmarker}PhD C: Yeah .Professor A: the speakers who we had is {disfmarker} is at least interesting .PhD G: Soyou {disfmarker} um , how many digits have been transcribed now ?Grad B: Four thousand lines . And each line is between one and about ten digits .PhD G: Four thousand lines ?Grad B: I didn't {disfmarker} I didn'tcompute the average . I think the average was around four or five .Professor A: So that 's a couple hours of {disfmarker} of , uh , speech , probably .PhD G: Wow .Grad B: Yep . Yep .Professor A: Which is a yeahreasonable {disfmarker} reasonable test set .PhD C: Mm - hmm .PhD G: Mm - hmm .Grad B: And , Jane , I do have a set of forms which I think you have copies of somewhere .Postdoc F: Mm - hmm . Yeah , true .GradB: Oh you do ? Oh OK , good , good .Postdoc F: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .Grad B: Yeah , I was just wond I thought I had {disfmarker} had all of them back from you . And then the other thing is that , uh , the forms infront of us here that we 're gonna read later , were suggested by LizPostdoc F: No , not yet .Grad B: because she wanted to elicit some different prosodics from digits . And so , uh , I just wanted people to , take a quicklook at the instructionsPhD C: Mm - hmm . PhD E: Eight eight two two two nine .Grad B: and the way it wa worked and see if it makes sense and if anyone has any comments on it .Professor A: I see . And the decisionhere , uh , was to continue with uh the words rather than the {disfmarker} the numerics .Grad B: Uh , yes , although we could switch it back . The problem was O and zero . Although we could switch it back and tellthem always to say \" zero \" or always to say \" O \" .Postdoc F: Oh {disfmarker}Professor A: Or neither .PhD C: Yeah .Professor A: But it 's just two thing {disfmarker} ways that you can say it .Grad B: Mm - hmm.Professor A: Right ?Grad B: Sure .Postdoc F: Oh .Professor A: Um {disfmarker} um ,PhD E: Yeah .Professor A: that 's the only thought I have because if you t start talking about these , you know u tr She 's trying toget at natural groupings , but it {disfmarker} there 's {disfmarker} there 's nothing natural about reading numbers this way .Grad B: Right .Professor A: I mean if you saw a telephone number you would never see itthis way .Grad B: The {disfmarker} the problem also is she did want to stick with digits . I mean I 'm speaking for her since she 's not here .Professor A: Yeah .Grad B: But , um , the other problem we were thinkingabout is if you just put the numerals , {comment} they might say forty - three instead of four three .PhD E: Yeah .PhD G: Mmm .PhD C: Yeah .PhD E: Yeah .PhD C: Yeah .Postdoc F: Well , if there 's space , though ,between them . I mean , you can {disfmarker} With {disfmarker} when you space them out they don't look like , uh , forty - three anymore .PhD E: Yeah .Grad B: Well , she and I were talking about it ,Professor A:Yeah .Grad B: and she felt that it 's very , very natural to do that sort of chunking .Professor A: She 's right . It 's {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it 's a different problem . I mean it 's a {disfmarker} it 's a {disfmarker} it's an interesting problem {disfmarker} I mean , we 've done stuff with numbers before , and yeah sometimes people {disfmarker} If you say s \" three nine eight one \" sometimes people will say \" thirty - nine eighty -one \" or \" three hundred {disfmarker} three hundred eighty - nine one \" , or {disfmarker} I don't think they 'd say that ,PhD C: Yeah .Professor A: but {disfmarker} but thGrad B: Not very frequentlyProfessor A: no{disfmarker}Grad B: but , {vocalsound} they certainly could .Professor A: But {disfmarker} Yeah . Uh , th thirty - eight ninety - one is probably how they 'd do it .Grad B: So . I mean , this is something that Liz and Ispoke aboutProfessor A: But {disfmarker} I see .Grad B: and , since this was something that Liz asked for specifically , I think we need to defer to her .Professor A: Mm - hmm .PhD C: Yeah .Professor A: OK . Well , we're probably gonna be collecting meetings for a while and if we decide we still wanna do some digits later we might be able to do some different ver different versions ,Grad B: Do something different ,Professor A: butthis is the next suggestion ,Grad B: yeah .Professor A: so . OK . OK , so uh e l I guess , let me , uh , get my {disfmarker} my short thing out about the NSF . I sent this {disfmarker} actually this is maybe a little sidething . Um , I {disfmarker} I sent to what I thought we had , uh , in some previous mail , as the right joint thing to send to , which was \" M {disfmarker} MTG RCDR hyphen joint \" .Grad B: It was . Joint . Yep .ProfessorA: But then I got some sort of funny mail saying that the moderator was going to {disfmarker}Grad B: It 's {disfmarker} That 's because they set the one up at UW {disfmarker}Postdoc F: Grad B: that 's not on ourside , that 's on the U - dub {comment} side .Professor A: Oh .Grad B: And so U - UW set it up as a moderated list .Postdoc F: Yeah .Professor A: Oh , OK .Grad B: And , I have no idea whether it actually ever goes toanyone so you might just wanna mail to MariProfessor A: No {disfmarker} no , th I got {disfmarker} I got , uh , little excited notes from Mari and Jeff and so on ,Grad B: and {disfmarker}Professor A: so it 's{disfmarker}Grad B: OK , good .Professor A: Yeah .Grad B: So the moderator actually did repost it .Professor A: Yeah .Grad B: Cuz I had sent one earlier {disfmarker} Actually the same thing happened to me{disfmarker} I had sent one earlier . The message says , \" You 'll be informed \" and then I was never informed but I got replies from people indicating that they had gotten it , so .Professor A: Right .Grad B: It 's just toprevent spam .Professor A: I see . Yeah so O {disfmarker} OK . Well , anyway , I guess {disfmarker} everybody here {disfmarker} Are y are {disfmarker} you are on that list , right ? So you got the note ?PhD G: Mm -hmm .Professor A: Yeah ? OK .PhD G: Yeah .Professor A: Um , so this was , uh , a , uh , proposal that we put in before on {disfmarker} on more {disfmarker} more higher level , uh , issues in meetings , from{disfmarker} I guess higher level from my point of view . Uh , {vocalsound} and , uh , meeting mappings , and , uh {disfmarker} so is i for {disfmarker} it was a {vocalsound} proposal for the ITR program , uh ,Information Technology Research program 's part of National Science Foundation . It 's the {pause} second year of their doing , uh , these grants . They 're {disfmarker} they 're {disfmarker} a lot of them are{disfmarker} some of them anyway , are larger {disfmarker} larger grants than the usual , small NSF grants , and . So , they 're very competitive , and they have a first phase where you put in pre - proposals , and we{disfmarker} we , uh , got through that . And so th the {disfmarker} the next phase will be {disfmarker} we 'll actually be doing a larger proposal . And I 'm {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I hope to be doing very little ofit . And {disfmarker} uh , {vocalsound} which was also true for the pre - proposal , so . Uh , there 'll be bunch of people working on it . So .Grad B: When 's {disfmarker} when 's the full proposal due ?Professor A: Uh ,I think April ninth , or something . So it 's about a month .PhD E: p sProfessor A: Um {disfmarker}Grad B: Yep . And they said end of business day you could check on the reviewer forms ,PhD G: uGrad B: is that{disfmarker}PhD G: Tomorrow .Professor A: Tomorrow . March second , I said .PhD E: Tomorrow ?Grad B: I 've been a day off all week .PhD C: Tomorrow .PhD E: Yeah .Grad B: I guess that 's a good thing cuz thatway I got my papers done early .PhD G: It would be interesting {disfmarker}Professor A: So that 's amazing you showed up at this meeting !Grad B: It is . It is actually quite amazing .PhD E: Yeah .PhD G: It 'll beinteresting to see the reviewer 's comments .Professor A: Yeah . Yeah . My favorite is was when {disfmarker} when {disfmarker} when one reviewer says , uh , \" you know , this should be far more detailed \" , and thenex the next reviewer says , \" you know , there 's way too much detail \" .Grad B: Yep . Or \" this is way too general \" , and the other reviewer says , \" this is way too specific \" .PhD C: Yeah .Professor A: Yeah .PhD C:Yeah .Professor A: Yeah .Grad B: \" This is way too hard \" , \" way too easy \" .Professor A: We 'll see . Maybe there 'll be something useful . And {disfmarker} and , uh {disfmarker}Grad B: Well it sounded like they{disfmarker} they {disfmarker} the first gate was pretty easy . Is that right ? That they didn't reject a lot of the pre - proposals ?Professor A: Do you know anything about the numbers ?Grad B: No . Just {disfmarker}just thPhD G: It 's just from his message it sounded like that .PhD E: Yeah . Yeah . I said something , yeah .PhD G: Gary Strong 's {disfmarker}Professor A: IPhD G: there was a sentence at the end of one of hisparagraphsPhD E: Yeah .PhD G: I {disfmarker}Professor A: I should go back and look . I didn't {disfmarker} I don't think that 's true .Grad B: Yeah , OK .PhD G: Mmm . He said the next phase 'll be very ,competitivePhD E: Very {disfmarker} very ,PhD G: because we didn't want to weed out much in the first phase .PhD E: yeah . Yeah .Professor A: Well we 'll have to see what the numbers are .Grad B: Or something likethat ,PhD C: Mm - hmm .Grad B: so .PhD C: Hmm .Professor A: Yeah . But they {disfmarker} they have to weed out enough so that they have enough reviewers .Grad B: Right .PhD C: Yeah .Professor A: So , uh , youknow , maybe they didn't r weed out as much as usual , but it 's {disfmarker} it 's usually a pretty {disfmarker} But it {disfmarker} Yeah . It 's {disfmarker} it 's certainly not {disfmarker} I 'm sure that it 's not downto one in two or something of what 's left .Grad B: Right .Professor A: I 'm sure it 's , you know {disfmarker}Grad B: How {disfmarker} how many awards are there , do you know ?Professor A: Well there 's differentnumbers of w awards for different size {disfmarker} They have three size grants . This one there 's , um {disfmarker} See the small ones are less than five hundred thousand total over three years and that they have afair number of them . Um , and the large ones are , uh , boy , I forget , I think , more than , uh , more than a million and a half , more than two million or something like that . And {disfmarker} and we 're in the middle{disfmarker} middle category .Grad B: Mm - hmm .Professor A: I think we 're , uh , uh , I forget what it was . But , um {disfmarker} Uh , I don't remember , but it 's {pause} pr probably along the li I {disfmarker} Icould be wrong on this yeah , but probably along the lines of fifteen or {disfmarker} that they 'll fund , or twenty . I mean when they {disfmarker} Do you {disfmarker} do you know how many they funded when they fin {disfmarker} in Chuck 's , that he got last year ?PhD G: I don't {disfmarker} I don't know .Professor A: Yeah .Grad B: I thought it was smaller , that it was like four or five , wasn't it ?Professor A: Well they fund{disfmarker}PhD G: I {disfmarker} I 'm {disfmarker}Professor A: they {disfmarker}PhD G: I don't remember .Professor A: yeah . I mean {disfmarker}Grad B: Uh it doesn't matter , we 'll find out one way or another.Professor A: Yeah . I mean last time I think they just had two categories , small and big ,Grad B: Mm - hmm .Professor A: and this time they came up with a middle one , so it 'll {disfmarker} there 'll be more of themthat they fund than {disfmarker} of the big .PhD G: If we end up getting this , um , what will it mean to ICSI in terms of , w wh where will the money go to , what would we be doing with it ?Professor A: Uh .Grad B:Exactly what we say in the proposal .PhD G: I {disfmarker} I mean uh which part is ICSI though .Professor A: You know , it {disfmarker} i None of it will go for those yachts that we 've talking about .PhD G: I mean{disfmarker} Dang !Professor A: Um , well , no , I mean it 's {disfmarker} u It {disfmarker}PhD G: It 's just for the research {disfmarker} to continue the research on the Meeting Recorder stuff ?Professor A: It 'sextending the research , right ? Because the other {disfmarker}PhD G: Yeah .Grad B: Yeah it 's go higher level stuff than we 've been talking about for Meeting Recorder .Professor A: Yeah . Yeah the other things thatwe have , uh , been working on with , uh , the c with Communicator {disfmarker} uh , especially with the newer things {disfmarker} with the more acoustically - oriented things are {disfmarker} are {disfmarker} are{disfmarker} are lower level . And , this is dealing with , uh , mapping on the level of {disfmarker} of , um , the conversation {disfmarker} of mapping the conversationsPhD G: Mm - hmm . Right , right .Professor A: todifferent kind of planes . So . Um . But , um . So it 's all it 's all stuff that none none of us are doing right now , or none of us are funded for , so it 's {disfmarker} so it 's {disfmarker} it would be new .PhD G: Soassuming everybody 's completely busy now , it means we 're gonna hafta , hire more students , or , something ?Professor A: Well there 's evenings , and there 's weekends , and {disfmarker} Uh . Yeah , there{disfmarker} there would be {disfmarker} there would be new hires , and {disfmarker} and there {disfmarker} there would be expansion , but , also , there 's always {disfmarker} {vocalsound} for everybody there 's{disfmarker} there 's always things that are dropping off , grants that are ending , or other things that are ending , so ,PhD G: Right .Professor A: there 's {disfmarker} there 's a {vocalsound} continual need to{disfmarker} to bring in new things .PhD C: Mm - hmm .Grad B: Yep .PhD G: Right .Professor A: But {disfmarker} but there definitely would be new {disfmarker} new {disfmarker} new , uh , students ,PhD G: I see.Professor A: and so forth , both at {disfmarker} at UW and here .Grad B: Are there any students in your class who are {vocalsound} expressing interest ?Professor A: Um , not {pause} clear yet . Not clear yet .Grad B:Other than the one who 's already here .Professor A: I mean we got {vocalsound} {disfmarker} we have {disfmarker} yeah , two of them are {disfmarker} two in the c There 're {pause} two in the class already here ,and then {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and , uh {disfmarker} uh , then there 's a third who 's doing a project here , who , uh {disfmarker} But he {disfmarker} he {disfmarker} he won't be in the country that long,Grad B: Mm - hmm .Professor A: and , maybe another will end up .Grad B: Yep .Professor A: Actually there is one other guy who 's looking {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that 's that guy , uh , Jeremy ? {comment} Ithink .PhD C: Mm - hmm . Professor A: Anyway , yeah that 's {disfmarker} that 's all I was gonna say is that {disfmarker} that that 's {disfmarker} you know , that 's nice and we 're sorta preceding to the next step ,and , {vocalsound} it 'll mean some more work , uh , you know , in {disfmarker} in March in getting the proposal out , and then , it 's , uh , you know {disfmarker} We 'll see what happens . Uh , the last one was{disfmarker} that you had there , {comment} was about naming ?Grad B: Yep . It just , uh {disfmarker} we 've been cutting up sound files , in {disfmarker} for ba both digits and for , uh , doing recognition . And Lizhad some suggestions on naming and it just brought up the whole issue that hasn't really been resolved about naming . So , uh , one thing she would like to have is for all the names to be the same length so that"}
{"doc_id":"doc_107","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Okay . Everybody ready ?Marketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Uh I think the first thing we do is introduce ourselvesMarketing: I think so .Project Manager: and everybody'sname and what your function is ?Marketing: Yeah , that's a good plan .Project Manager: So maybe we start with you ?User Interface: Okay . Yeah , my name is Francina . And I'm uh an user interface {disfmarker} myrole is uh {disfmarker} the main responsibility is user interface .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: And my role is to design uh a television remote control .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Okay .Marketing: AndI'm a marketing person . I wanna figure out how to sell them .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . And your name is ?Marketing: My name is Eileen .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Uh I'm Jeanne-Oui . Umuh my role is industrial designer and my responsibilities are uh uh um deal with the {vocalsound} technical-functional designs and specifications of user interface and dealing with user interface design .Project Manager:Very good . And as you already know I am Betty . I am the project manager for today . So why don't we look at the presentation {vocalsound} to see what we really are supposed to do . {vocalsound} Um .Marketing:Okay .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yes y opening , acquaintance , tool training {disfmarker} well , the tools are , I think , we already {disfmarker} I guess the tool is really our {disfmarker} the computer , as far as Ican see .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Uh we get ins each of us will get instructions and we'll take it from there . Project plan , that falls under the same heading pretty much . Um , I don't think we have anygreat discussion at this point .Marketing: No .Project Manager: Um . Here is what this thing should be . This thing we are gonna um uh design is a new remote control . Uh should be original {vocalsound} , trendy , and, of course , user friendly .Marketing: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: So maybe you wanna make some notes of that .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Okay ?Marketing: Mm-hmm .ProjectManager: All right . {vocalsound} Here is what the functional design is supposed to achieve . Um . That is it's gonna be individual work and then at the meeting we'll discuss what uh we have come up with . The samegoes for the conceptual design , there will be individual work whic and then discussion afterwards . Detailed design , same thing basically .Marketing: Mm 'kay so {disfmarker} Three different types of design that we'regonna be concerned with okay .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .Marketing: Functional , conception and detailed .Project Manager: I can't write with this thing . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Maybe weshould redesign it . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yes . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: After we've finished the remote control we'll get to that .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Yeah , okay . All right ? Then , tool training try out the white board , participant can draw their favourite animal . Does anybody want to go and see how the white board works ? So that in case we have to , in the nextmeeting , present something on the white board . You wanna go Eileen and {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay , I'll see what I can do .Project Manager: Whether you {disfmarker} without hanging yourself .{vocalsound}Marketing: See if I r See if I remember how to draw a kitty cat or a rabbit or something . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}ProjectManager: And remember you have to press so it works .Marketing: So that it will record okay .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Um uh um traditional kitty cat .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Fat , a fat cat .{vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I've a very fat cat .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound} And it likes to sit like that .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: And you're Francine , right ? Would you like s like just to see um how it feels , so that you have a little idea ?UserInterface: Yes , I'm Francina . Yes , sure . {vocalsound}Project Manager: In {disfmarker}Marketing: Am I supposed to wipe off that or {disfmarker}Project Manager: No , no . No , that's okay .User Interface: No , Okay.Marketing: okay .Project Manager: I don't know , we'll get to that later .Marketing: Okay .User Interface: What should I draw ? {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Snake .User Interface: I'mgoing to draw a snake . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay .User Interface: How does it look like ? {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Uh , okay.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay .Marketing: I hope the kitty cat is hungry 'cause I don't like snakes . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: Here's the project finance uh which , of course , we all have to think about when we design this thing . Um selling price is supposed to betwenty five Euro . Uh profit aim for the company is fifty million Euro ,Marketing: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}Project Manager: the market range unlimited meaning internationalMarketing: Okay .Project Manager: and theproduction cost should not exceed {disfmarker} hopefully should be less than twelve fifty Euro .Marketing: Mm 'kay that should keep everybody on their toes and challenged .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing:Profit . Um is fifty mm .Project Manager: So these are all things , of course , to remember with the budget and when you design {vocalsound} to materials , cost , etcetera . Now , uh the discussion I guess is um doesanyone of you have experience with remote control ?Marketing: Oops .Project Manager: I exp I s 'cause we we use 'em {disfmarker} we use 'em , right , everyday .Industrial Designer: Yeah , of course , using remotecontrol . Yeah .User Interface: Yes .Project Manager: And um now having used a remote control for years does anybody already have like an idea like things you didn't like with it , things you would like to change ,things you would like to improve with this thing ye any first ideas ? Would you like it to be smaller , bigger ,Industrial Designer: Uh .Project Manager: have more have more buttons on it or maybe clearly {disfmarker}better marked buttons , you know , things like that ?User Interface: Yeah , I {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: Yes , I I feel that all the remote should be very compact .Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: Small , right . Mm-hmm .User Interface: Yeah , those which we get here nowadays it's very long .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: And um and it should have multi-purpose . Like uh theremote control which we use for T_V_ , it shou uh it should be used f uh for some other purpose also , like controlling the uh temperature inside the house or for air-conditioners , or for heating system .Project Manager:Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Audio player . Oh . Okay .Project Manager: So it should be a multi-functional uh gadget that would um control all your household uh uh machines basically .User Interface: Yes , exactlyYes .Industrial Designer: Hmm .User Interface: Yes .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Divides us {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah . Exactly .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah . Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound}At um twelve fifty Euros per {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well .Marketing: Well who knows if we get a really good designer maybe we cando that .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound} We certainly can try to {disfmarker} I agree with her that to market something successfully it should do some more things .Project Manager: It should besomething new {disfmarker} it should be s it it should do something different than than just what we have .Marketing: That's right .Project Manager: Now , of course , the other thing to think there is maybe the design.User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah , of course .User Interface: Yeah , design should be , yeah {disfmarker} it should be different . All the {disfmarker} almost all the remotes {disfmarker}Project Manager:Like trendy no like f for earlier we saw maybe it should be something trendy you know . Maybe it should {disfmarker} different colours or materials or you know .User Interface: Yes , exactly .Industrial Designer: Yeah ,maybe ten {disfmarker} I do yeah , coloursUser Interface: Are different shapes .Industrial Designer: and al shapes also . Yeah .User Interface: Yes .Project Manager: Um so yeah shapes right , you know , like kidneyshape feels better in your hand or something , you know .User Interface: Yes .Industrial Designer: Yeah of course yeah .Marketing: Yeah okay , friendly shape , that would help .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Ithink another thing that would help is um if it beeps when you clap ,Project Manager: Yes .Marketing: because I think one of the big things that happens is people lose them . They can't find it .Project Manager:{vocalsound} That is true ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: because they put a newspaper or they put it behind a plant or , we you know , whatever .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah .{vocalsound}Project Manager: And and they {disfmarker} suddenly the phone rings and they want to turn the T_V_ off and they say , where the hell is my {vocalsound} my remote control yeah ?Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well or yeah or if it's really , if it's really in a dark spot that it gives out a a sound or a signal .Marketing: So some {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:Yeah , some beep or something like that ,Project Manager: Yeah . Mm-hmm .User Interface: Or a bMarketing: Uh so , so it's really the beep or , or a light should blink .Industrial Designer: so that we can go{disfmarker}Project Manager: So if lost {disfmarker} If lost uh signal with b throw signal , you know .User Interface: Should haIndustrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: A fluorescent signal , yeah .Marketing: Mm 'kay.Industrial Designer: Yeah , maybe it should have a light so that we can , we can just recognise where it is .Project Manager: Exactly , I mean just {vocalsound} that's what I'm saying .Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah .May not be beep .Project Manager: I'm just saying throw signal meaning just whether it's a beep or whether a light or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Beep or uh it's a light , maybe it's a light .Marketing: And do youthink a good c c um clue for that is that it would respond to a clap or it would respond to your voice or it would respond {disfmarker} what what should you have to do to make it beep or blink ?Project Manager: Okay ,my {disfmarker} my idea is maybe that the minute it's really hidden , in in other words if it's like in a dark spot , uh meaning you know like a newspaper is on top , a sweater is on top or it it's behind a plant , at thatmoment it's it's like , it's like um , what you call it {disfmarker} a light s sensors , you know ?Marketing: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .Project Manager: In in that moment it has a sensor , i it it gets a certain darkness , it gehas a sensor and it gives out a signal whether that be a light signal or a beep ,Marketing: Okay so {disfmarker}User Interface: Yes .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: I mean , that we can discuss that later , you know.Industrial Designer: Yeah , probably {disfmarker} yeah , probably it's a {disfmarker} yeah , yeah .User Interface: Yeah . And uh {disfmarker}Marketing: So the light sensor would activate the signal .Project Manager:That's right . You know there would be {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: right you have to have some kind of sensor and I I think uh voice or clapping it's not specific enough .Uh I know there are the lamps and stuff , you know , you can clap on and off ,Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Yes .Project Manager: but I think they only work to certain degree and {disfmarker}Marketing: But itcould be someplace really obvious and you still wouldn't be able to find it .Project Manager: What with {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah , of course , that didn't {disfmarker}User Interface: Then , in that case{disfmarker}Marketing: Well , because you're s because you're silly . Because people are silly .Industrial Designer: I i we can't do it .Project Manager: Oh yeah well , but then those people {disfmarker} we can't helpeverybody . {vocalsound}Marketing: I mean it could be on {disfmarker} well , i if it were like on top of your bookcase and you usually kept it on the coffee tableIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: um{vocalsound} ,Project Manager: Okay we have uh {disfmarker}Marketing: you know , well {disfmarker} maybe we have to move along , okay .Project Manager: yeah , we have to move along , but I think we havesome good good points to start with here .Industrial Designer: Yeah , good point .Project Manager: Okay , the next meeting will be in thirty minutes . I think you all {disfmarker} did you get uh notices on yourcomputer for this ? Okay so well , you got the notice umIndustrial Designer: Me yeah .User Interface: Yes .Project Manager: {disfmarker} uh . The working design , I guess that's the function I_D_ {disfmarker} uh whois this ? The industrial designer {disfmarker} That's you .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Yeah , it's functional de yeah , exactly , technical .Project Manager: Okay . So , we looking for a working design when we come back.Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Uh working design , yeah , it's it's uh mainly technical-functional design .Project Manager: Then {disfmarker} And then the technical functyou are the technical function ,Industrial Designer: Yeah , functional design ,Project Manager: so so you are the working design .Industrial Designer: and you {disfmarker}Project Manager: So you have a workingdesign and then a functional design .User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: And the marketing manager is coming up with some user requirement specification , like friendliness , and what we just discussed in general .That would be your idea . And , of course , price . That it , that it , that the price is a good price . I mean , the price is given , but , that was {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm . We have to justify that price by havingsufficient features to make it sell at that price .Project Manager: That's right . That's right .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: And , you know , specifi you you will get specific um instructions for that . I thinkthat's the end of the show . Yeah . So um {vocalsound} we have {disfmarker} well , we have a twen two two two three minutes . Um any questions at this point ? Or uh suggestions ?Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: Ithink {disfmarker} basically basically you will get instructions to work with and if you have any questions uh , uh I guess , you can uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Okay , Ithink I have enough to think about 'til our next meeting .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Yeah , even I have .Marketing: How about you people ?Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Yes.Industrial Designer: Yeah , even I have , I think , yeah .Marketing: Really ? Okay . 'Kay .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: Yeah , so let's see .Marketing: Alright , well uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Thenuh we see you in about thirty minutes . And see what we can come up with .User Interface: Yes .Industrial Designer: Hmm .User Interface: Okay .Marketing: Okay , very good .Project Manager: Okay ?User Interface:Yes .Industrial Designer: Yeah ."}
{"doc_id":"doc_108","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Uh fourth meeting . {vocalsound}User Interface: We have to do what ?Project Manager: Some extra deciding .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} W what ? Alri alright . We'll see .Project Manager:{vocalsound} Well {disfmarker}User Interface: Oh .Project Manager: {gap} I'll show you the notes again . Very interesting .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well you'll you two will uh present usyour prototype .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Then um {disfmarker} I guess that's your bit ? I I didn't s see anything about it ,Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: so {vocalsound} I already uh thoughtyou uh you were {gap} to do that .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So the you're uh {gap} .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I'll show you how we're going to do with financing this uhdesign .User Interface: Mm .Industrial Designer: Yeah , that's important too . Yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: And then we'll evaluate , after after we have redesigned it .User Interface: {vocalsound} Bit late .{vocalsound}Project Manager: Because uh well we'll see about the costs . Um we'll uh evaluate our p our uh production and then uh we can close .Industrial Designer: Alright .Project Manager: Well the finance uh we'lldo later , so um firstly uh {vocalsound} I'll show you the notes . {vocalsound} I don't think it's very interesting . {vocalsound}User Interface: I think it is .Project Manager: Oh nei . Uh no . {vocalsound} Alright . This iscopy paste . So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: From me of course , yeah .Project Manager: Of course . You had some very strange layout .Industrial Designer: Well from us all , yeah , from all of us . Yeah .{vocalsound} It's a nice chorus , yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Well um {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: We ge we went through the agenda ,IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}Project Manager: and well we had some uh some presentations from you three . And uh I summarised what you said to us . So uh I don't think it's very interesting and go through it again.Industrial Designer: Repeat it yeah . Alright .Project Manager: So uh {disfmarker} This is what we decided . It's also copy paste from what we made together . So we still know that .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager:And then uh we can we can uh use the time better . Well uh next you two will uh present uh the pot prototype for us .Industrial Designer: Alright , we both uh will ?Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Or one ofus will ?User Interface: {vocalsound} Alright .Industrial Designer: Uh {disfmarker}User Interface: No you go and I'll uh supplement you .Industrial Designer: Alright . If I make mistakes uh you'll uh {disfmarker}UserInterface: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: Correct . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Right . Uh well this is our design .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Uh it's pretty uh much uh like uh Mike draw uhdrew uh the in the during the last meeting . With uh the different uh perspectives of it . Uh we'll begin uh with the front . We have of course uh the the round shape uh the round uh basic shape . Um with uh the upperpart being the front . Th So there's this part um {vocalsound} which is made of hard plastic , the front . And uh we're we're using different colours . Of course for the launch we use the basic ugly colours ,ProjectManager: {vocalsound} Yeah .Industrial Designer: and later we'll put out uh more interesting covers with different patterns and pictures and everything .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: But basically ,different colours , bright colours not black , too dark . Fancy colours . {vocalsound} Um then we have uh the lower part {vocalsound} of the of the device . Uh which is of course um part of the back actually , becauseit's also titanium . You can see it also on the on the on the side view , that only this part is the front , and the rest of it , the under uh the under side uh of it , yeah , the back side and the lower part of the front is ofcourse titanium made of titanium , and has the titanium colour of course , the look . Um then we have uh on back on the front uh the logo in the upper corner ,Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: uh which is uhmade uh which is also part of the back , part of the titanium uh titanium part .User Interface: Yeah , it's a double R_ , but {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah ?User Interface: It's a double R_ .Industrial Designer:It's a double R_ . Yeah the logo {disfmarker}User Interface: But {vocalsound} it's very difficult to to draw that in {disfmarker} Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah , alright .Industrial Designer: Uh uh it's difficult to draw sosmall , but it's our double R_ uh logo is in there .Project Manager: Okay . Yeah .Industrial Designer: Um so that's the logo in the upper lef uh right corner . Then we have the buttons . Uh it's difficult to draw again thelittle oval or round {disfmarker} I think oval will be better for the for the d for the different uh channel buttons .User Interface: Oval yeah .Project Manager: Alright .Industrial Designer: So {gap} uh oval , n those arehere . And then we have the m The mUser Interface: Channel up and volume ?Industrial Designer: Yeah the the con the the the , yeah , the t volume and the channel controls uh in the middle here . Um um with kind ofarrow shapes , which makes it also a bit more exciting than basic round or um uh {vocalsound} uh square buttons . And also here are the two uh buttons we agreed on . We have the Okay button . Oh nei we uh theOkay button's here in the middle of the of the operators , of the channel and uh volume um changers .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: And then we've here the Menu button andthe {disfmarker}Project Manager: Alright .User Interface: Menu for the L_C_D_ screen .Industrial Designer: And the video button . The {disfmarker}Project Manager: So {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm right .UserInterface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah . And of course this low part , this is the L_C_D_ screen .Project Manager: 'Kay .Industrial Designer: Uh this is what we made of it . You can make uh suggestions uh ifyou want .Project Manager: Well if I look at it , the side the side view {disfmarker}User Interface: Well , at the back {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Maybe we maybe we should finish first uh ourtalkUser Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: and then you can add suggestions .Project Manager: Oh yeah alright . Yeah {gap} .Industrial Designer: Maybe I I don't want to {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I don't want tosuppress you but n I'll uh finish this uh quick .Project Manager: {gap}Industrial Designer: Um okay I've had everything I guess on the front ?User Interface: No the back . With the logo and our uh l uh{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah the back . Yeah . {vocalsound} We thought about {disfmarker} Yeah , uh the back is of course totally titanium . {vocalsound} And we thought about the logo big in the middle.Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Just so again the double R_ . We have then the logo on front and on the back .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Maybe that's too muchProject Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: but you have to say uh say that if you think that way .User Interface: No I don't think {disfmarker} And the {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: And the company slogan , we thought in a kind of arcshape uh above the logo .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: That's basically what we were thinking about ,Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay .Industrial Designer: and {disfmarker}ProjectManager: WUser Interface: And about the side view um {disfmarker} This the front won't be as thick ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: but again th the the drawing technique makes it very difficult to toreally uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well I see , but {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Oh and uh before I forget . Yeah the the voice , of course ,Project Manager: Well . Yeah I see it .Industrial Designer: the voicerecorder is uh at the bottom .Project Manager: Yes .Industrial Designer: And you can record it uh using , yeah , the the the back of the f w device .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: When I look at uh when Ilook at this side view , I think w when I have that in my hand , it's terrible .User Interface: Well , it won't be visible . Mm ?Project Manager: If if you look if if this this is thick , and this is thin , th th then it that it liesover your hands . But {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Why ? {vocalsound} Well it fits uh it it it it fits the hand , {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: mean uh the the the the {disfmarker}ProjectManager: Well what what what I what I agree is that when uh when um you have such of uh an arc in the middle , so that the the a the ends and the fronts is a bit thicker , so th then it falls over your hands .Marketing:Yeah , I agree .User Interface: {gap} If y {vocalsound} If you handle a remote , you you usually don't have your hand straight like this .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} In the middle in the {disfmarker}UserInterface: You you have it a bit uh {disfmarker} Yeah .Marketing: It depends on the size . If it's kinda small , this is is great . But if it's it's larger , then you want to grab it .Project Manager: And how large is it ?UserInterface: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah , that's the question .Industrial Designer: That's the question .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Uh well {disfmarker} Yeah . H What doyou suggest I mean we do ? {gap} This was Mike's prototype ,Project Manager: Well uh {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and y you seemed to agreed on it .Project Manager: Well the sides Ihaven't seen yet , uh {gap} ?Industrial Designer: But now you have a totally different {gap} .User Interface: Well , they lay there all the time .Industrial Designer: The size ? Yeah well the size doesn't really matter w Imean {disfmarker}Project Manager: They the the the the the side view ,Industrial Designer: Side ? Uh oh the side ?Project Manager: we didn't uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: W we we he drew the s the side ,UserInterface: Yeah yeah .Industrial Designer: but you d you weren't paying attention as usual .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Well any case , we'll discuss it now . Uh Ithink uh this is a pretty good uh good idea {gap} .Marketing: Yeah , I agree with the L_C_D_ screen . You have it in your palm like this , and you can watch uh watch the screen . And if you have it li in the middle , yourhand might be over it .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: But you you hold it like this .User Interface: Yeah you you don't you don't grab it ,Industrial Designer: You're not holdingit like this or something .User Interface: you you {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: You , yeah , y How do you call it ? Yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Well y y y you don't have itlike this .Project Manager: No no no .Industrial Designer: You have it more like this .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {gap} You you you're using buttons this way , or if you're right-handed , this way.Marketing: Like you're holding your telephone .Project Manager: Yep .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: So you {disfmarker} Yeah . So {disfmarker}Marketing: Because if you have a screen on it , you wannalook at your screen .User Interface: Hmm . That way , it it falls into your hand . I think . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah well {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: And maybe you can youcan grab it a bit higher ,Marketing: Yeah , I agree on this .Industrial Designer: so {disfmarker} Well {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: No , I don't think so . That's not uh the point{disfmarker}User Interface: No but but {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Well the the {disfmarker} Well that's a reason to to to put the L_C_D_ screen uh of course on the upper side , but {disfmarker}User Interface:{vocalsound} Well f for as far as I can see , three of us agreeProject Manager: Yeah wellUser Interface: and only Nils {disfmarker}Project Manager: uh I think uh if you t if you three uh agree then then that's it .UserInterface: But you're the Project Manager , you can make the hard decisions . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yes . So uh I c I cIndustrial Designer: If necessary .Project Manager: Well , we'll we we'll do itlike this .Industrial Designer: But uh are d Can you live with it ? Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Alright , if you think that that's the way it should {gap} {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah ?Industrial Designer: Y Yeah ,y y y y you said it was totally uh unusable .Project Manager: No {disfmarker} No ,Industrial Designer: But do youProject Manager: when I I my personal taste is that I want it to fall over my hands with a thick{disfmarker} But {disfmarker} In the market uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: But d you don't think this is completely unusable I guess . I think .Project Manager: No not totally .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Not totally , well {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} For me , I I wouldn't buy it . Let's say it like that .Industrial Designer: Yeah but of course y you are also human . We have to take uh {vocalsound} everyeveryone into account . So {disfmarker}Project Manager: No {gap} {disfmarker}Marketing: And you might be uh {disfmarker} You might be target customer .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Yes but{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Well uh who who else thinks like you ?User Interface: Mm .Industrial Designer: We don't know .Project Manager: Yeah , we don't know ,Industrial Designer: Maybe a thousand people,Project Manager: but that's uh that's that's that's more market research .Industrial Designer: or a million people .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So {vocalsound} let it be like this at uh at this moment.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Let it be .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay ?Industrial Designer: Alright . So that's that .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Uh any other suggestions?Project Manager: No , I think it's great .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: But what about the redesigning ?Project Manager: {vocalsound} Comes to that later .User Interface: Okay . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Umyou . Uh c You can uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Walter . {vocalsound} You can do the evaluation uh criteria on this ?User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} You're very personal again.Marketing: {vocalsound} Alright . Great .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: That's more useful than just {vocalsound} speaking .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound} {vocalsound} Well , this is just a short intro .Project Manager: Yes .Marketing: I'm going to do uh the ev evaluation . That's gonna be done at the end of seven point skill criteria .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: So I made a {disfmarker} I made a few questions on the hand of uh uh the impor most important requirements and trends .Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: And we have to look if our uh if our device uh is working correctly . Well , I put some questions in a Word file . See if I can find them . Uh uh uh uh mm .Project Manager: 'Kay .Marketing: Well{disfmarker}User Interface: Hmm .Marketing: I uh think you have all seen uh this kind of evaluation , so uh I don't have to explain it . Uh the first question is , uh is the device good-looking ? Because normal p uh mostpeople thought that um earlier devices were ugly ugly . Seventy five percent of them . So what do we think ?Industrial Designer: Well d we designed it , so of course we are very {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm .ProjectManager: Yeah , we're we're not quite uh objective about this .Marketing: Yeah {vocalsound} {disfmarker}User Interface: Well we designed it to be good-looking .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: No , I know , but{vocalsound} I have to uh evaluate it . So I have to take this questionnaire .Project Manager: To the customers ?Industrial Designer: So and we ha we have answer now ?Project Manager: To potential customers whohave to take this questionnaire ?Industrial Designer: Yeah . {gap}Marketing: Yeah {vocalsound} {disfmarker} Yeah , but I can't can sProject Manager: Nei . Oh no . I know , I know , I know .User Interface: Hmm.Project Manager: But um {disfmarker} Well {vocalsound} we can go , uh because of the time , uh pretty quick through this . Uh do we find it good-looking ? Well we think so . Uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah . Wedesigned it to be good-looking , so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I {disfmarker} Yeah , I think it {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah , but uh , you know {disfmarker} We dis we di {vocalsound} we designed it to beperfect .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: So {vocalsound} {disfmarker} But we have to be critic critical about it . And I have to uh take all these points and get a average at the end . Sowe {vocalsound} we know where we stand .Project Manager: Well , one .Industrial Designer: {gap}Marketing: 'Cause th there are some things we might have uh bi might have forgotten .Project Manager: Well so it'spoint four . Easy to find tIndustrial Designer: Well l well let's start with the beginning , just one by one . {vocalsound}Marketing: Right , so {disfmarker} Right . Uh is it good-looking ?Industrial Designer: Well , I guessuh I think uh {vocalsound} it's uh it's it's um pointed towards the youth of course , uh if you look at the design and and the colours and everything . {gap}Project Manager: Two . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Thatwas our target audience of course . But it's also not completely um {vocalsound} uh u unacceptable for older people I guess . Uh it's it's not f a device that {disfmarker}Marketing: The titanium might be uh f for olderpeople .Industrial Designer: Yeah , that's that's uh for older people , it's it's more that classical look . So {disfmarker}Marketing: It you put uh put a black front on it or something .User Interface: Hmm .IndustrialDesigner: Uh no . {vocalsound} I think {disfmarker} Yeah they like black of course , but I think they'll uh they they think uh the the titanium look of it is also {disfmarker} Uh I think it's also good for them , so I thinkwe both uh have uh consider considered uh the youth and also a bit older people . So I think it's very good-lookingMarketing: Right .Industrial Designer: and not only for youth uh young people .User Interface: I thinkwe shouldn't discuss any points points that long , because I don't know how how many points there are but uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: No . I totally agree .Marketing: Right .Industrial Designer: Yeah , thefourteen yeah .Project Manager: We we have to get get on , go through this .Marketing: Right , a number please .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Is it easy to t change channels ? Yeah well I think so.Marketing: So the last one is seven .User Interface: Um , no it's uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Easy to change channels ?Project Manager: No , not false . It's one .Marketing: Oh , sorry .User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah , right .Project Manager: Well uh two ? Y Well we have to go through it {gap} .Marketing: Change channels ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I think it's uh as easy as uh can be made .Uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Right .Industrial Designer: So I {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Yeah . You {disfmarker} How can you make it any easier ? {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}With two huge buttons .Marketing: The power , channel and volume buttons are easy accessible ?Project Manager: Yep .Industrial Designer: Yeah , huge is a {disfmarker} Yeah .Project Manager: Two .Marketing: Two ?Alright . The uh device is easy to find if you lose it ?Project Manager: Well , no . We didn't implement anything about that . {gap}Industrial Designer: D we d we don't we don't have uh that sUser Interface: Well it'seasier to find than a a normal black one or something ,Project Manager: {vocalsound} Well six then . {vocalsound}User Interface: because of the colour . But {disfmarker} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah . Six ? Right .Industrial Designer: Well we don't have the device that beeps uh when you lost it or so ,Project Manager: Are the functions easy to learn ?Industrial Designer: but um um{disfmarker}Project Manager: Well w I we do want we have a l f f less of an {disfmarker}User Interface: {gap} We have so few functions , so {disfmarker} Yeah .Marketing: Yeah , I agree .Project Manager: And thedevice R_S_I_ sensitive ?User Interface: Well , I should {disfmarker} I think two ,Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: because {vocalsound} the voice recorder is n not self learning . {vocalsound}Project Manager:"}
{"doc_id":"doc_109","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Okay . So , now um , {vocalsound} last time . Can you uh {vocalsound} push the button ? {vocalsound} One time please . So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I'm still the secretary . Now uh , I ask you topresentate the prototype . One of your {disfmarker} you two .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I don't care . {vocalsound}User Interface: Oh this , you mean ?Project Manager: Yes . The prototype.Industrial Designer: Huh ?User Interface: Yes , well uh this is it . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} This is it .Project Manager: Well , thank you . Uh , now {disfmarker}UserInterface: It's uh it's uh it's yellow . And uh , this is rubber . And and and this too . TheProject Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: the sides .Project Manager: Yes .User Interface: And the rest is hard plastic . And uh{disfmarker} We uh we had some uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker} We had a new idea {vocalsound} that that this can uh can be uh uh turned inside .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: And then it coversthe {disfmarker} these buttonsProject Manager: Okay .User Interface: until here or something .Marketing: Yes .User Interface: And then you can still use the the power button and the mute and the the joystick .ProjectManager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: So , you can still operate uh all the things . Because you don't always use the menu . And then it can break .Project Manager: Okay . And the buttons ?User Interface: Uh , well uh{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Big . {vocalsound}User Interface: Big buttons . And everything is blue , except the power button . And the mute . Of uh {disfmarker} yeah , and the mute and the the other button .{vocalsound} Yeah . Channel higher channel button .Industrial Designer: {gap} .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: And the joystick is for the volume and the channels .User Interface: Uh , yes . Yes ,IndustrialDesigner: Yes .User Interface: that's uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Very obvious .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Up is channel up . Down ischannel down . To the right is volume up . To the left is volume down .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay , so if joystick and L_C_D_ . What's the R_R_ {gap} d {vocalsound}User Interface: R_R_'s the l thethe the the company uh logo .Industrial Designer: The R_R_ ?Project Manager: Okay . Very good .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So , we have {disfmarker}Marketing: That's on the rub rubber part.User Interface: Uh , yes . Yes . That's about here .Project Manager: So , what they say on the side is put fashion there . Yes . It's good .User Interface: Oh .Project Manager: So , that's it . That's prototype .Marketing:Yeah ?Project Manager: Now , the finance . {vocalsound} We don't know if it's {disfmarker} th it {disfmarker} if it's okay .Marketing: Alright . {vocalsound}Project Manager: So , I'm gonna look .Marketing: Do we{disfmarker}Project Manager: We have {disfmarker}Marketing: Do we change the {disfmarker}Project Manager: Sorry ?Marketing: Do we change the the order ? Or are we going to uh ev evaluate it first ?ProjectManager: Finance is um {disfmarker} Yeah it's {disfmarker} No , first uh {disfmarker} Yes . We have to evaluate the product yet .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Sorry .Marketing: That's uh um {disfmarker} {gap}That can be none . Um , we gonna do the evaluation now , together . But I have uh a introduction how it works . So , it will come up . Uh-oh . Okay . Um , yeah . Well , we uh {disfmarker} uh , I have um thinked a fewevaluation uh criterias , uh based on um our marketing strategy , on uh the latest trends , on user preferences . Uh , we have a seven point scale from uh true , as well . To false , seven ? And on base of each c uhcriteria , we need to um give a rating . We can uh {disfmarker} Well , it look like this . But we gonna uh do it here , they said . {vocalsound} So , you hope found out how to do it with a Word document . Yeah . Okay ,yeah . Yeah . Um , well uh we have the Word documentProject Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Criteria .Marketing: You {disfmarker} {gap} So we open up that blank here .Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Think I can {disfmarker} Uh , what this just an example . So , this not very important . But um , if I can get a number in here . Hmm .Project Manager: No , it's okay .Marketing: Well ,uh we can't do that .Industrial Designer: I'll get it .Project Manager: Oh , it's okay .Marketing: Um , so uh you have to think of it as uh the remote control is techno technologically innovative . Uh , and then we have touh agree on the rating together . And in the end , we will c uh count an average of all rating . The first uh on each item .Project Manager: What do you think ?Marketing: Yeah , I think it's uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Uh , well technologically using , it's not uh {disfmarker} it doesn't contain many new features . Only the L_C_D_ . So , it {disfmarker} Um , I think I will give it a {disfmarker} yeah , yeah , yeah {gap} , a four . Hmm.Industrial Designer: I think the scroll-button is something also uh new . What uh {disfmarker} not anoth uh ,Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: not a lot of uh {disfmarker} a lot of uh remote controls have .I think technologically I'll give it an seven . Si six six .Project Manager: {gap} Yeah .Industrial Designer: Sorry , six .Marketing: So now i I think you uh see it {gap} um its statement .Industrial Designer: Oh , true orfalse .Marketing: And you {gap} true or false .Industrial Designer: Oh , uh I'll I'll give it uh a t a two .Marketing: And true is one . So , yeah . Yeah .Project Manager: Two .Industrial Designer: Sorry .Project Manager:You ?User Interface: Three .Project Manager: Me too . So it's a three .Marketing: 'Kay . Um , well {disfmarker} It's a one . {vocalsound} The first item . So , okay the second item . Um , this product is for all sorts ofcustomers .User Interface: Mm {disfmarker}Marketing: Well , it's a statement which uh I disagree with , because we uh really aim uh at at young market and I think the way it looked uh c uh totally in yellow , it's notuh really aimed for all customers . It doesn't look like that .Project Manager: So it's a {disfmarker}Marketing: That's uh a six .Industrial Designer: Five .User Interface: Mm , four .Project Manager: Yes , it's for theyounger g group . So it's uh half half of the people .User Interface: Yeah , but it's it's {disfmarker}Project Manager: So I think it's four .User Interface: Yeah . I mean it still has l large buttons and not m many buttons.Project Manager: No .User Interface: So {disfmarker} I mean , the colours are for young people ,Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .User Interface: butProject Manager: Yes . So , I think it's four .User Interface: older{disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Maybe version uh three point O_ uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} has other colours . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound} Yeah . Maybe .Project Manager: Okay . Give it a four .Industrial Designer: Four .Project Manager: Yep .Marketing: Four . Uh , okay . Mm .Project Manager: We put the fashion in electronics .Marketing:That's uh the motto of our company . Yeah , well do we do this with uh this product ? I um {disfmarker} Yeah . I think if we do this , as it's uh uh c uh it's really orientates on the design . Um , so I would give it a two.Industrial Designer: Me too a two , because only the battery is not uh techin uh technologically high standard . But the rest of it is . So , I think a two .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yes . Two .ProjectManager: Uh , I say uh a five .Marketing: Two .Project Manager: It's not fashion , it's new . It must be a fashion . But it isn't .Industrial Designer: It {disfmarker} it will be fashion .Project Manager: Yes . It w If it's not afashion we can put it in it . So , it must be a fashion . I think it's a five .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Okay .User Interface: Then make it ththree .Marketing: Okay . Yes , I'll think of that too .Project Manager: No . Oh .Industrial Designer: 'Kay . Three is okay .Marketing: Yeah , agree ?Project Manager: I use my feet though . {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Oh , we'll wait outside .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} A three .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah okay .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: The next element um is the product looks good . Well personally , I do not prefer a um remote controlthat's fully in yellow . So , I would give this a five .Industrial Designer: I give it a one . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {gap} . Yes , a one . I like it .Project Manager:Well , I say three . So , counting then is two and a half . {vocalsound}Marketing: We have to do our uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Say two .Marketing: Two or three ?Project Manager: Okay , two .IndustrialDesigner: Two .Marketing: Two . Okay .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: So , well we gonna do the next part . Uh , yep . Uh uh , the next statement . It has not too muchbuttons . Um , yeah , I I have uh said is not because uh a low number is better . And in the end we calculate an average . So , um that's why it's a negative in it . Um , well this one of our aims not have too muchbuttons . So , um uh did we uh do that ? Well , uh if we go to {vocalsound} uh this fashion , I {disfmarker} We still have caused uh a lot of uh buttons for the numbers . But you can you can go for that . And um thatway , you don't have a lot of buttons over . So , I would give this a two .Industrial Designer: One .Project Manager: {vocalsound} You ?User Interface: One . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Me too . One .Marketing: One. {vocalsound} Um , but {vocalsound} where where is the {gap} ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Next , six . It does not get lost easily .Marketing: So {disfmarker} Yeah , did we implement uh thesound ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: Yes . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Just a small thing . {vocalsound}Project Manager: No , we didnot . So , but can it get lost if it's such a thing ?User Interface: Yeah , but uh {disfmarker} Yeah .Industrial Designer: Ah . Yellow .Project Manager: I don't think so .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Lookslike a pistol .Project Manager: Yes . Not a not a normal shapes . So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Uh {disfmarker} It won't get between uh the pillows uh on the couch .Project Manager: No . It won't get lost.Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Uh {disfmarker}Marketing: It won't .Project Manager: A one ? {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah , o one .ProjectManager: Okay , a one .Marketing: One .Project Manager: Next .Marketing: Okay , um well we aimed for the younger market .Project Manager: {gap}Marketing: Uh yeah , did we achieve that . I think with the way itlooks and um it is designed , I will give it a two .Project Manager: Yeah me {disfmarker} {gap}Industrial Designer: Yeah . Me too .Project Manager: That was our target . Two .Industrial Designer: Two .ProjectManager: Yep .Industrial Designer: Yeah ? Yeah .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Right . There's a fancy look-and-feel .Marketing: Uh , yes . That that was uh , yeah , one of the most important things that uhTrendwatch said . I didn't uh say it in my presentation . But um , well does it have that ? I would say yes . So um {disfmarker} Well , let's also give this a two . TIndustrial Designer: I gave this a one because of therubber . It feels soft . Uh , it looks like a l uh uh b uh , a bit like a joystick . It's {disfmarker} Yeah . Yeah , f very fancy {gap} trendy .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Yes , a one .Project Manager: I say a two .It's a a bit personal . If it's fancy .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: So I think s two is better .User Interface: Yeah , okay .Industrial Designer: Two is okay .Marketing: Okay. Two .Industrial Designer: {gap} .Marketing: And um , then the last one I could think of , uh it goes with the latest trends .Project Manager: No , it's new . Innovation .Marketing: If we looked at the latest trends forthe uh younger people , and they ate uh fruit and vegetables , well it has a um a nice colour , uh well compared to food but we didn't uh {disfmarker} We did not paint any uh fruit and vegetable on it for something likethat .Industrial Designer: Oh .Marketing: So , I would {disfmarker} did not give this uh a one or two . I {disfmarker} We'll go for a three .Project Manager: {gap} .Industrial Designer: I go for two because uh the theshapes are still round . Uh , the latest trends are soft things , you know , like uh I said in my presentation . Uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yes .Industrial Designer: But the the colours are um basic , like yellow , red , umblue . Something what also younger people want . It's also a trend , so I'll give it a two .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Mm , three .Project Manager: Me too . Three .Marketing: A three .Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Okay . So um , come back to the presentation now . So , we find yourself there , and now we have to calculate an average rating .Project Manager: Effort is three , ten and twelve . Thirty , forty , fifty ,{gap} .Marketing: So , we will do that . Yes .Project Manager: Twenty one . So , it's uh two and three nine two and one third .Marketing: By nine .Industrial Designer: Two .Marketing: Yeah . Um , uh okay .{vocalsound} Two .Project Manager: Yep .Marketing: Come on . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh , nah . Okay .Marketing: So uh , that's a pretty low rating , I think .User Interface:{vocalsound} Yes .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So , it's good .Marketing: So , according to our uh own evaluation uh we did a good job . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .User Interface:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Thank you .Industrial Designer: Yeah , I think {gap} .Marketing: Oh . Nah . How am I doing ? Yes .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: And I closed your slide-show .Project Manager:Back to my uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Which one was the last for you ? Uh , dreaming .Project Manager: Yep . Next please .Marketing: Next . Finance .Project Manager: So , now uh we have a product . Very happy .But uh , is it cheap enough ? Um , so if uh {disfmarker} I'll have a look . We have a battery . One battery .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Cheapest there is .Project Manager: Okay , one battery .Electronics . Advanced chip .Industrial Designer: Expensive .Project Manager: Yeah it's the most advanced . Chip-on-print . We have that one .Industrial Designer: Well , it's the most advanced .Project Manager: Wehave the simple , regular and advanced .Industrial Designer: Advanced .Project Manager: We have the adva advanced . 'Kay , so uncurved or flat . Nope . Single curved or double curved ? We have double curved .{gap} {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Then we have plastic , wood , rubber.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {gap} we have half rubber , half plastic .User Interface: Mm , yes .Project Manager: No titanium . Special colour . Yes , yellow .Industrial Designer: Uh , yellow .{vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: Mm , yeah .Project Manager: Interface , push-button . Scroll-wheel , integrated scroll-wheel push push-button , or L_C_D_ display .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Project Manager: So , we have the L_C_D_ We have two scroll-wheels ? Or one ?Industrial Designer: One .Marketing: One .Project Manager: And it's not really a sIndustrial Designer: Joystick uh thing.Marketing: {gap} .Project Manager: Yeah , it's this one . Now , uh button supplement .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Special colour . We already {disfmarker} Uh , that's the {disfmarker} from the{disfmarker} for the buttons . The buttons are regular colour .User Interface: Mm , yeah .Project Manager: So , then uh {disfmarker} then then then then then then {disfmarker} Then {disfmarker}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound} We're not gonna make it . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh , no . It's too expensive .Industrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound} WhProject Manager: So , we have to change something .IndustrialDesigner: What what are the costs ?Project Manager: Fifteen Euros .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Fifteen .Project Manager: Yeah , well uh when we lose one scroll-wheel , it's okay . 'Cause we can't lose the battery. We can't lose the advanced chip . We can't lose the double curve . We have rubber , special colour .Marketing: {gap} . We would have uh nIndustrial Designer: A special colour .Project Manager: Oh , no , we{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Uh , I don't think it's a very special colour .Project Manager: No , it's uh {disfmarker} Sorry ?Industrial Designer: Yellow ? Uh , is it a special colour ?Marketing: For a remote control.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} What ?Marketing: I've {disfmarker} For a remote control , I think it is . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound}Marketing: If we would have uh uh normal buttonsinstead of uh the joystick . For up down left right .Project Manager: Um , then we uh lose two Euros . Then we have thirteen Euros . Half a Euro too much . Exactly the special colours . So {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: And what if we use only one sort of um {disfmarker} Um {vocalsound} just only plastic or only rubber ?Project Manager: That's one Euro .Industrial Designer: One Euro discount . {vocalsound}ProjectManager: So , I don't think that's good . Mm {disfmarker} I think we have to keep the L_C_D_ . If {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: If we change the joyst uh the joystick thing into a button up , button down , buttonright , button left .Project Manager: Yes . Then it's only thirteen Euros .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} And then we'll lose fifty cent in what ?Project Manager: So uh {disfmarker} yeah . Yeah . Then you have{disfmarker} Or you have to cut this off .Industrial Designer: Uh {disfmarker} uh-uh .Project Manager: Then it's not good anymore .Industrial Designer: No .Project Manager: So , wait . Okay . I'll have a look .{vocalsound} We {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: And if you say it's just a r uh normal colour {disfmarker} it's a normal colour , wh {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yellow rubber .Industrial Designer: No one will see it. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah , normal .Industrial Designer: Normal colour , and the the joystick away , and put the button up , button down , right , left .Project Manager: Uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer:And it's twelve Euros , I think .Project Manager: One minute , please . Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Is it maximum . Um {disfmarker} Yeah , it's normal colour . But if you lose the joystick , it's still uh an advancedchip ?Industrial Designer: No . Uh , no , no , no .Project Manager: Or it's then a regular ?Industrial Designer: Uh {disfmarker} Oh , wait wait wait .Marketing: The advanced chip was for the L_C_D_ wasn't it ?UserInterface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Oh yeah .Project Manager: So , the advanced is for the L_C_D_ and the regular for the joystick .Industrial Designer: Oh yeah . Yeah . Yeah , yeah .Project Manager: And what if welose the L_C_D_ ?Industrial Designer: If we lose the L_C_D_ , then we have an uh regular chip and no L_C_D_ .Project Manager: Yeah , regular chip . But {disfmarker} Is it a good design ?Industrial Designer: Uh ,yeah . Then you'll have to m uh see the menu on the television . And you don't have the L_C_D_ .Marketing: If uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So , the T_V_s has to uh {disfmarker} have to beup-to-date .Marketing: If we have the n no buttons {disfmarker} If we have we have uh not a joystick but buttons , we would have {disfmarker} uh , we have thirteen Euros ?Project Manager: Mm , yes .IndustrialDesigner: Yeah .Marketing: And then uh we move the the colour . What will that be ?Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Then it's okay .Industrial Designer: Huh . No knew that .Marketing: Yeah .{vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay , so no joystick . Oh no , but we {disfmarker} then we get push-buttons from half a Euro .Industrial Designer: Yeah , then it's twelve Euro fifty , then it's okay .Project Manager: Uh ,yes , yes , yes , yes . No joystick . Push-buttons . No special colour . Twelve and a half Euros . Then it's okay . So , we have to change that a little bit . And you cannot use the red and green button . Because if you give"}
{"doc_id":"doc_110","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: {vocalsound} So um nice to see you again . Uh . So , uh . Tod uh for this meeting I will take the notes and do the minutes . Uh so we will see our three presentations . Um we will start with the uhManager Expert wi who will talk about uh user re requirements , whats user needs and what it desire for this devi device .Marketing: Okay , can I have the laptop over here , or ?Project Manager: Yep . Oh , I don't thinkso . I think you have to come here .Marketing: Okay . Have to get up . {vocalsound}Project Manager: I dunno . I think it should stay .Marketing: Excuse me .Industrial Designer: Yeah , that's it .Project Manager:{gap}Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay .Project Manager: Should stay in the square here . {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Oh , maybe .Marketing: Okay , so basically I'm gonna present some findings ofa study we conducted uh into uh what users want in this remote control .Project Manager: Oh , you can put it here . Oh that's okay , it's jusMarketing: Um so first of all we {disfmarker} what we did is we um conducteda an experiment with a hundred test subjects . Um we put them in a in our um usability laboratory and got them to , you know , um play with remote controls , and also to complete , after they'd done that , to completea questionnaire uh to tell us what they like and what they don't like in remote controls . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} So basically um the major things we found out was that um basically users don't like the look and feelof of most remote controls that are currently on the market . Um they , you know , seventy five percent of the people we we uh did the experiments on , found that rem remote the remote controls that they'd used inthe past were ugly . Completely ugly . Um they they didn't match the operating behaviour of the user , that is , you know , the the way users use remote controls when they're watching T_V_ . Um , that the layout ofthe remote controls didn't match they way that they used it . Um and thirdly they say that w half of the users that we um tested said that they only used ten percent of the buttons that uh are on remote controls . Umso we collect we also some collected some usage statistics uh based on how these test subjects were using their remote control . And from this we basically came up with the figure that the channel buttons , the channelselection buttons are the most {disfmarker} by far the most used buttons on the remote control . Um and you can see they're used a hundred and sixty eight times per hour on average , um , while the user's watchingT_V_ .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Um the closest button that was used , well the cl the button that was used that was closest to the channel button was the teletextbutton , um which was used fourteen times per hour , followed by the volume button , which was four times per hour , um , all the other , all the other um buttons , such as ch um audio and picture selection umconfiguration buttons and things were used , you know , l approx well less than or equal to one times per hour . Um we also asked users um which buttons had the most importance to them , you know , which whichbuttons they felt were the most important buttons on on the remote control . And basically they came {disfmarker} they said the channel , volume , and power buttons had the highest relevance to users , um note thatonly power was very infrequently used , it only had a b a a fr usage frequency of about one times per hour , but users ranked it as having a very very high relevance . Um and the audio and picture settings had a very{disfmarker} that well the users thought that um w the audio and picture settings were very uh weren't very important to them um , and they used them very infrequently a as well . {vocalsound} So we asked userswhat what um frustrates them the most about um current remote controls . And fifty percent of the users said that uh what frustrates them is losing the remote control um somewhere in the room and not being able tofind it . Um {vocalsound} they also said that it um it takes a lot of time to learn a new remote control , especially when there's many buttons and it's a , you know , a c a a unintuitive interface . Um and then thirdly ,they {disfmarker} some users commented on the fact that the the you know the way that you have to hold and press buttons on a remote control ar are bad and um cause u repetitive strain injury . {vocalsound} Wealso asked some users about some specific features that they'd like to see in the {disfmarker} on the remote control . In particular , do they want an L_C_D_ d display , and secondly , do they think speech recognitionuh is a useful feature to have on a remote control .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Um basically our findings are that um amongst a younger age groups uh the answer is umv overwhelmingly yes . They wantthese features , they want these high technology features .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Um for instance , ninety one percent of pe of people aged between fifteen and twenty five said yes , they wantthese features . Whereas um {vocalsound} the the trend was as users as users um became older and older uh they were less likely to want these sort of features in a um in a remote control . So I guess it depends onwhere we're focusing our our market . Um and as our company motto is putting fashion in electronics , um I think we're focusing on the younger younger um target demographic , and so maybe we should think aboutadding these sort of high technology features into our remote control .Project Manager: Hmm .Marketing: That's my dic that's my presentation . Thank you .Project Manager: Thank you .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: So , um maybe now we can talk about a user interface and uh about the technical function of this device . So uh Pet Peter , can you talk say something about that?Industrial Designer: Well , okay , yeah . Yeah , but the user user interface is responsible .Project Manager: No .User Interface: B you think uh I I'm User Interface Manager .Project Manager: Ah .Industrial Designer:Okay , so {gap} .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Sorry , I'm {disfmarker} Sorry . Sorry .User Interface: {vocalsound} Okay . Okay .Project Manager: {gap}User Interface: If I could go therewith this cable .Industrial Designer: You're scaring me with L_C_D_ man . And speech recognition in remote unit , it will be very e expensive .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah , it's true , but , you know , they're featuresthat users want ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: so it's {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: And our production cost of twelve fifty Euros per per unit is fairly high I think ,User Interface:{gap}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: so I think we can afford to to add these sort of features into our remote .Industrial Designer: At least we have couple of months t to work on it so so it will be cheaper finally .{vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Sh okay . {gap}Marketing: It is true .User Interface: Where's delete button ? Okay . Oh I'm sorry . {vocalsound} {gap}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager:{gap}User Interface: {gap} Okay .Marketing: That's the wrong one , I think .Project Manager: Yeah , it's still Bob Morris .User Interface: Oh . Presentation three ?Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah you should haveput yes .Industrial Designer: Because you cancelled it . Yeah .Project Manager: Click on yes .User Interface: Oh . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {gap} yeah .Industrial Designer: Yep .User Interface: Okay , so here ismy presentation about technical function design . I will talk about different components and s of system and how they react together . Okay , uh , first what is a remote control ? Simply it's a device , as you know , foruh , for sending some commands by some waves to uh another device to to tell different commands uh with this device . And the main idea we don't use any cable and we can rec react simpler with the device . Uh i ithas different blocks , different blocks . Uh first is remote control have sh ha should have some electric circuits uh making interface with uh keyboard and uh r reading uh keyboard and reading the keyboard uhcommands . And then inter then make uh these keyboard commands , uh in interpret these int uh keyboard commands . And then there should be uh an electronic circuit making uh electronic signals according to thesecommands and uh finally there is a transmitter which is a cord or a a diode making uh making uh waves to transmit through the air and uh uh this air this uh wave uh will be received by the by the other device like atelevision or whatever , to uh r to realise the command . Okay , {vocalsound} uh about {disfmarker} what I found about uh different uh these different blocks are uh , usually there are two different methods uh to{disfmarker} for designing a remote control . They are based on infra-red uh waves or uh uh radio waves .Industrial Designer: You still want me the presentation .User Interface: There are two different uh uh solutionsI mean . This is uh this can be uh uh the the differences the th between different kind of waves , infra-red or radio waves . And uh also as uh I understood , and uh I think it was a part of uh Bob , uh uh presentation ,people prefer to have uh to have uh the remote control with less button . So for the electronic part , working and interfacing , with button , we should we should try to t try to design a remote control having uh somesome simpler buttons or some rolling buttons to just to just to search between different options , and showing o something on T_V_ and putting less lesser stuff on the uh on the remote control . And uh personalpreferences , uh uh uh uh certainly a remote control with {disfmarker} uh working with radio waves is uh preferred because uh you can pr you can take it in any direction and you don't need to tune it any way . And uhuh again , using bigger buttons and less number of buttons are also preferred , as I see . Okay . That was my presentation .Marketing: Okay . I have a question .User Interface: Uh-huh .Marketing: Do you think radiowaves um will interfere with other appliances in the home ?User Interface: Uh , I don't think so , because uh we can make uh we ca we can make this wave in a specific frequency . So they can be in a range which is notinter interfering with the {vocalsound} with other devices inside the home .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: So can we use any any frequency ?Industrial Designer: Yeah , it should be okay {gap} .Project Manager:We have the right to use any frequency ?User Interface: Uh no but as I know , there is a range for uh for this uh f for for uh for this stuff , for designing this circuit . We can we can we can tune our uh transmitter towork in this range , and for this range we don't need to ask any permission .Project Manager: Okay . And what happen with uh radio waves when two neighbours have the same {disfmarker} have our remote control ,for example ? And so do they have the same frequency , or ?User Interface: Uh for this I'm not uh I I don't know the solution , but one solution can be something like putting uh p password or something inside the wave, so the only your T_V_ can understand itProject Manager: Okay . A kind of identification {gap} ,User Interface: Yeah , identification code inside the {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah f {vocalsound} uh I knowabout this , since it's my {disfmarker} it's exactly my field , so .Project Manager: okay . So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: It's uh kind of handshaking , uh , when starting to {disfmarker} uh when you start tocommunicate with the your T_V_ then then it's like an handshaking protocol with your your remote .Project Manager: Yeah . So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So so if two two devices are trying to go tocommunicate with the T_V_ set then the the the one which has the more energy in the wave is chosen . Well it can be a problem sometimes , but most of the time it works okay .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface:The password may simply {disfmarker} uh or uh i identification code may simply solve this problem . A specific uh remote control has a specific fIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah but we we don't have to think uhabout this because I think as a function designer that we will use the already made uh circuits which we probably bu buy . It's worth to buy .Project Manager: Hmm .Industrial Designer: And they have these problemssolved so . So we don't have to think about these .User Interface: Mm .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: So , maybe you can talk about the function , and{disfmarker}Marketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: Yes . I have only a couple of things because I had {disfmarker} I struggled a bit with the software that I'm supposed to use in this uh uh in this company . I was usedto use Linux before , so . But I tried to tried to break through this {gap} too , I guess .Project Manager: Open .Industrial Designer: Mm . Ah .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay . {vocalsound} Howto make it big ?Project Manager: Slide show .User Interface: Five . {gap}Industrial Designer: Slide show . Okay , thanks . {vocalsound}Project Manager: It should work , so you can {gap} .Industrial Designer: Okay .Oh so I will speak about working design . That's the first slide . Uh what uh I have to do ? A look at what the other company {disfmarker} Okay so uh presently I am looking what is possible to use , what circuits to useand stuff like that because uh I didn't work uh with these uh circuits so far so I have to look what what is a v a v available on the market for for the communication {disfmarker} for the I_R_ circuits and so on , so I'mcurrently looking what is available on the web . And uh I wanted to ask you m maybe afterwards , after after our discussion , if we have some contacts in some companies , so , which can report on what is going onthere , so , I would be glad if you can tell me about them .Project Manager: Mm . Yeah .Industrial Designer: So , you know . Uh , okay findings , that's {gap} the point that I'm working on currently but uh so far I I wasuh looking what what are the blue circuit , I mean radio wave {disfmarker} radio frequency circuits are available now ,Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: but the prices I read are high . So , I know that uh theuser interface people and these speak about radio frequency waves because you can you can uh you can make the T_V_ do what you want even if you are in the bathroom or so on ,User Interface: Mm-hmm .ProjectManager: Hmm .Industrial Designer: but you know , when you are not close to the T_V_ you probably won't need to to change the program and so on and so I am I am voting for s to stick to the um infra-red controlinstead of R_W_ but we will discuss it later maybe . Uh . Components to use , I'm not exactly sure what I will use for the design of the circuit . It depends uh on whether we will use the L_C_D_ and mainly the speechrecognition ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: because the speech rec Yeah ?Marketing: Are we um are we planning to take an off the shelf an O_E_M_ component for the radio wave circuit , or are weplanning to construct our own circuit board ?Industrial Designer: No no no no no . This we this we buy I think , because it's rather cheap nowadays and it's not worth to construct ourselves .Marketing: Okay s So we justbuy a circuit board and {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Exactly .Marketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: But I'm not sure about the circuit which is responsible for speech recognition . This I prefer that we should makeourselves .Marketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: But it depends whether we take a decision to use it . Same thing . It's fairly expensive to use these circuits . So , speech recognition {disfmarker} well , L_C_D_ it's okaybecause it's common nowadays to use L_C_D_ ,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: so I agree on using any kind of L_C_D_ , less buttons good for me as a as a designer of the circuit .Project Manager:Yeah .Industrial Designer: But the speech recognition we have to compare whether the price and the {disfmarker} what does it offer , you know .User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: Yeah . So what do you think wouldbe the price , it would be out of range ?Industrial Designer: Yeah , I'm {disfmarker}Project Manager: Or it would be maybe feasible ?Industrial Designer: Oh . I was not thinking too much about the price . But if we usethe L_C_D_ uh even the radio frequency communication with the T_V_ set and the backlight and uh related things like the photo diodes and stuff , it should be okay . If we decide to use the speech recognition , then weprobably could struggle but we'll see afterwards .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: It depends of you if if the M_E_ or U_I_D_ ,Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: I'm sorry about the names , I don'treally know , uh want to have it like in metal or in plastic , these things , it it depends on you not {disfmarker} Because the the the electronic device's price is not not so big in comparison to to the overall shape andstuff like that , so .Marketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: We will discuss it afterwards . Oh , this is nothing . This is just my notes on what to use . And uh my personal preference is yes , I would like also preferably touse R_W_ circuit , but from the point of view uh of the design and price , I would stick to I_R_s . That's my opinion . Uh I mean if infra-red uh circuit not not the radio frequency .Project Manager: Why ? Because it'ssimpler ?Industrial Designer: Because because the the range where you can use it is fair .Project Manager: Yeah . Mm .Industrial Designer: It's okay I think . And the price is fairly cheap for this .Project Manager: Okay .It's a a price matter .Industrial Designer: Well , depends .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Jus just the price .Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: Otherwise I don't care what I put there because it'sthe chip which I buy or which we buy .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: So I I I think it's o y o {vocalsound} .Marketing: What how much more expensive ? Are we talking three times more expensive ?ProjectManager: {gap}Industrial Designer: Well , three to three to five .Marketing: Or ten times more expensive ? Or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: N not ten times ,Marketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: but it dependswhat what we {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah yeah . That's still a lot . I think it's it's probably not worth spending the extra money ,Project Manager: Hmm . Yeah .Marketing: because I mean all the other remote controlson the market have infra-red , so people don't expect anything other than infra-red .Industrial Designer: {gap}Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: So it's not worth spending the extra money.Project Manager: Well I {gap} , oh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Th they are used to use it when they can see the T_V_ so , I don't know .Project Manager: On the other side , we want to have something new.Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: You know , whereMarketing: Yeah .Project Manager: we want to to have something new and So we I think we should still thinking about it . But maybe {gap} .Marketing: But I think ,based on my usability studies I th I feel that users are {disfmarker} prioritise the look and the feel and the trendiness above , you know , the difference between infra-red or radio waves .Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: So I think we're better off spending money in the usability phase .Industrial Designer: {gap} You the user interface , and management man , uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay . Yeah.User Interface: Mm .Marketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: Uh okay , that's it for me .Project Manager: Okay , thank you Peter .Industrial Designer: 'Kay .Project Manager: So um I have to inform you I receive an emailfrom the management bon board today and they have new requirements for the for the remote control . UmMarketing: Mm .Project Manager: first um , they say that's uh about something about t teletext . Uhapparently it becomes from {disfmarker} according to them it becomes out of date . Out-dated . And uh {disfmarker} Because of the internet popularity and everybody has internet at home , and actually it's not usefulto have teletext . Um . So I think we can avoid the teletext . Um the second thing is uh they suggest that that we should uh use the remote control only for T_V_ , not for D_V_D_ and other devices , because it make it{disfmarker} it makes it's too complex and uh because we have not much time for this project we should stay on T_V_ on the {disfmarker} only specific T_V_ remote control .Industrial Designer: I agree .{vocalsound}Project Manager: The third {vocalsound} the third one is uh about the the the image of the company . So um uh we should we should keep uh {disfmarker} The the product should be recognisable . Uh ,"}
{"doc_id":"doc_111","qid":"","text":"Lynne Neagle AM: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee. We've received apologies for absence from Suzy Davies and there is no substitute. Janet Finch-Saunders isjoining us from the Assembly offices in Colwyn Bay via video conference. Can I ask Members if there are any declarations of interest, please? No. Okay. Item 2, then, this morning is a post-legislative scrutiny session onthe Higher Education (Wales) Act 2015. I'm very pleased to welcome Kirsty Williams AM, Minister for Education, and Huw Morris, who is director of the skills, higher education and lifelong learning group in WelshGovernment. Thank you, both, for attending, and thank you for the paper that you provided in advance. I will just start the questioning by asking whether you are planning to repeal the 2015 higher education Act, orwill it be amended by the post-compulsory education and training Bill?Kirsty Williams AM: Thank you very much, Chair. I'm very pleased to be with the committee again this morning, although it's in slightly unusualcircumstances. As a piece of post-legislative scrutiny, this was a Bill that was taken forward by a different Minister in a different administration, but I think it is really valuable work in the context of the question you justset out: what can we learn from the implementation of this piece of legislation as we move forward with our reform journey and with this Government and my proposals to introduce a new commission for tertiaryeducation? There is much, at the moment, that lies within the 2015 Act that we will look to bring forward into the new legislation, but there are certainly experiences—and I'm sure we'll come on to some of the evidencethat has been received about what's worked, what perhaps hasn't worked—that we all want to reflect on and be mindful of as we take forward the new Bill, including the report of this committee as part of it. So, it is ourintention that this Bill will be superceded by the new PCETR Bill.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. We've got a series of questions now from Siân Gwenllian.Sian Gwenllian AM: Good morning. Do you believe that theAct has fulfilled all the Government's objectives? Where are the weaknesses?Kirsty Williams AM: Diolch yn fawr, Siân. As I've said, it's a bit difficult to place myself in the mind of the previous Minister when thislegislation was first envisaged and then taken through. You'll be aware that there were four main reasons for the introduction of the Bill: around regulation of institutions in Wales; safeguarding the contribution made topublic good arising from Welsh Government's financial support for the sector; maintaining a focus on fair access; and preserving and protecting the principle of institutional autonomy. I think the evidence that has beenreceived by the committee to date shows that there are different views about the effectiveness of whether all four strategic aims have been achieved. I think those strategic aims are still really, really important andcertainly will underpin our thought process going forward, but we have to recognise the higher education and research Bill across the border in England, the implementation of new student support measures in Wales, aswell as the report that was done by Ellen Hazelkorn, I think, means it is appropriate that we move forward with different proposals, not just regulation of the HE sector but the post-compulsory sector as a whole. We willlook to see what we can do to strengthen or whether there is more that we need to do to achieve those four objectives, because I think those four objectives are still very, very relevant. But we have to have legislationnow that is fit for the circumstances we currently find ourselves in and, hopefully, futureproofs us for how we want to see the sector develop in the future.Sian Gwenllian AM: Do you feel perhaps that the legislation itselfhasn't been strong enough, and that you then have had to drive some of these objectives through the annual remit letter, rather than through legislation, and that's why the strengthening is required?Kirsty WilliamsAM: Certainly, I see the remit letter as a really, really important way in which national priorities and the priorities of an elected Government can be clearly stated, communicated to the Higher Education Funding Councilfor Wales, and then HEFCW use their powers to ensure that that happens. So, certainly, I see the remit letter as being a very important mechanism for ensuring, as I said, that those national priorities are clearlyarticulated, and then change happens.Sian Gwenllian AM: Has the current legislation been framed around institutional autonomy so that it's not possible for institutions to fulfil any national outcomes, and is that goingto be an element of the new Bill?Kirsty Williams AM: Well, certainly, the 2015 Act contains numerous provisions that protect universities' privileges and autonomy. And that's really important, and those are principlesthat I am committed to in any legislation that I bring forward. We'll certainly be looking to see how we can carry those protections into the forthcoming Bill, but, at the same time, we do have to ensure appropriateregulation and accountability of institutions for their public funding and the privileges that they enjoy. And I think there are a number of ways in which that can happen. We have a very positive working relationship withthe Higher Education Funding Council for Wales, and I am very fortunate to have a very positive working relationship with the sector. The remit letters are a really important way in which we can lay out those nationalpriorities. I don't think there's anything in the legislation per se that prevents those national priorities being articulated and being acted upon.Sian Gwenllian AM: I don't think that's what HEFCW has said in theirevidence. They've said that the Bill has been framed in a way where it's not possible for institutions to fulfil any requirements. You're talking about the remit letter; maybe you need to have that discussion there, but, interms of the Bill itself, you can't make them fulfil any national outcomes. Shouldn't there be a discussion looking to move in a direction where there are national outcomes being set through legislation, because there ispublic money going into that?Kirsty Williams AM: Well, I don't know whether we need national outcomes through legislation, because those national priorities, potentially, will change over time. What is really important,and what we will be seeking to do in the new legislation, is look to move to a system of outcome agreements. So, there is a very clear expectation that the commission will have, in regulating the sector, andco-ordinating and funding the sector, to create a system of outcome agreements, where those outputs will reflect national priorities, and that's one of the things that we've consulted on, and will look to take forward inthe new legislation.Sian Gwenllian AM: Okay. That's clear enough. What about private providers? The Act, or the Act as it stands, makes it a requirement for a regulated institution to be a charity, and that means it's notpossible to regulate alternative private providers under the Act, even though they can provide higher education in Wales. What is your view on this, and will the new legislation continue with the requirement of being acharity?Kirsty Williams AM: Okay. So, I think, first of all, it's important to make the distinction between the scale of private providers, and what could be termed as 'unregulated providers' in the Welsh system, asopposed to the English system. And I think that's a really important distinction to make. So, currently, under the current legislation, unregulated providers can only access Welsh Government student support if they'redesignated on a case-by-case basis. So, we do have a circumstance where—and a process in place, to manage this. So, we have a specific designation policy, which is operated on our behalf by HEFCW. Only sixorganisations were designated on a case-by-case basis in the 2018-19 academic year, so the scale here is small. Three of those were further education colleges. So, when we talk about a private provider, perhapspeople would have a view of a private university, but, actually, three of those were FE colleges, which we would all be familiar with. And the three private providers were the Centre for Alternative Technology, thetraining arm of the Church in Wales and the Newport and District Group Training Association. All three of those are actual charities. So, in order for their courses to be specifically designated, the three crucial questionsthat those providers have to answer are: quality—is what they’re providing to students of a good quality; the financial viability of the institution, again, to try to protect the interests of the students who may findthemselves embarking on a course in an institution that isn’t viable; as well as their contribution to private—sorry, not to private good—public good. And we are considering how that part of the sector will be regulatedin the forthcoming legislation. But, Huw, I don't know if there's anything else to add?Huw Morris: Well, just to say that there are a very small number of private providers, as the Minister has outlined, and, in comparisonwith England, where I think the last figures said that there were between 300 and 400 private providers in England, you get a sense of the differences that exist there. And, if you look at what happened over recentyears, it has been those small private providers across the UK who have been most financially challenged and a number of them have stopped their operations, with consequences for the students. So, we’ve been keento put students at the front of things to make sure that the institutions that they’re enrolling with are strong and have good quality.Sian Gwenllian AM: Okay. So, what you're saying is that you will continue with acharitable status, or not—Kirsty Williams AM: At this stage—Sian Gwenllian AM: —or are you still thinking about it?Kirsty Williams AM: Well, at this stage, I think the charitable status will continue to be an importantpart of what we will take forward.Sian Gwenllian AM: Just turning finally to part-time fees and postgraduate fees, do you have an intention to regulate this part in the new legislation?Kirsty Williams AM: I have to saythat, at present, we've not identified an urgent reason to designate these courses as qualifying courses for the purposes of a fee limit. And there are a number of reasons for that. Actually, the current Act—the 2015Act—does not permit the fee regulation of postgraduate courses, other than PGCE courses for IT purposes. In the case of part-time courses, I'm currently content that fee levels are not exceeding the amount of studentsupport made available by the Welsh Government. So, I think we are, at this moment, relaxed about that, and there are some difficulties around deciding and introducing fee limits on postgraduate courses. I thinkwhat's really important to me is the success at the moment of attracting people to postgraduate and part-time study in Wales, as a result of our reforms to student finance. But, clearly, we'll need to keep that underreview. But, at this current moment, the Act precludes fee regulation in some areas and there's not a pressing policy need that we've identified to date.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Thank you. Okay, we're going to move onnow to some questions about the level of ambition in the higher education Act and any lessons for the PCET Bill, from Janet Finch-Saunders.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you. To what extent has the 2012 universityfunding system limited Welsh Government’s policy leverage over the sector, and how has the HE Act addressed this beyond the levers offered by fee and access plans?Kirsty Williams AM: Of course, the Act wasintroduced as a direct result of the changing scenario around finance and the different ways in which, because of the reduction in HEFCW's budget, the level of influence that HEFCW would be able to exert overinstitutions through the imposition of terms and conditions of funding—. So, the Act was introduced in part to address that shift in influence and the Act also has provided HEFCW with a range of new powers ofintervention and sanctions in the case of non-compliance by institutions. Personally, I wholeheartedly believe that tertiary education providers should contribute to national goals and outcomes as part of what I'ddescribe as a civic mission. I'm determined that any legislation that I bring forward and any commission that I establish will be empowered to enable that to happen through its regulatory and funding powers. Of course,the funding situation has shifted again now because of the introduction of what is commonly known as the Diamond reforms, but our new system of student finance does again shift the parameters of influence thatHEFCW or any new tertiary commission could have. But, as I said earlier, it's not to say that institutions have had a free reign. We have been able to use the remit letter and our relationship with HEFCW to progressagendas that we would want to see. So, for instance, you'll be aware, in my remit letter, I am concerned about issues around how people working in the sector are paid. We've been able to successfully see allinstitutions sign up to becoming living wage employers, all institutions sign up to the Welsh Government's code of ethical procurement. So, it's not to say that the Act has meant that we've had no influence, but thereare opportunities now, because of the change in financial circumstances once again, to look at that in any forthcoming legislation.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you, Minister. Do you share HEFCW's views on thebenefits of having national targets to get institutions to address national priorities? Is this something you wish you could do?Kirsty Williams AM: Well, it's not something I wish I could do; I think that we're doing it.Self-praise is no recommendation, but, because of the working relationship that we have, I think we're seeing some success in using the remit letter to influence national outcomes. So, I've just talked about living wage;we're also using our remit letter to drive transparency over senior leaders' pay, the gender pay gap within institutions. For instance, as part of this Government's commitment to improving mental health, we've beenable to use the remit letter and some funding to be able to drive change and some improvements in mental health in the higher education sector. These are national priorities and we're acting upon them and we're usingthe multiple levers we have at the moment to engage in universities. And, I have to say, universities have risen to that challenge, and I'm very grateful to them for doing that.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you. Arethere plans to give the proposed new PCET funding body more effective policy levers to align the sector to the social, economic and civic needs of Wales? And, if so, how will this be done?Kirsty Williams AM: Well, as Isaid in answer earlier, I'm determined that we ensure a sense of civic mission for the entirety of the sector, including our institutes of higher education. You'll be aware, Janet, that, in the consultation exercises thathave been undertaken by the Government so far on PCET reform, we will be introducing more formal outcome agreements, whereby institutions might be given by the commission very clear expectations of how they'reexpected to contribute to national priorities.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thanks. We've heard that the HE Act, by focusing on individual institutions, did not encourage collaboration, even for widening access activity. Wasthis a missed opportunity and how will this be taken forward in the PCET Bill?Kirsty Williams AM: I think we can strengthen our sector by closer collaboration. I think what sets us apart in Wales is that this Governmentis determined to create a legislative regime and a regulation regime that encourages collaboration and co-operation, which is in stark contrast to the marketisation and the competition that we see being regulated forand legislated for across the border in England. That's one of the reasons why we are going to introduce the new PCET reforms—to create collaboration, not just between different higher education institutes but actuallyacross the sector. So, this is a prime opportunity where we can create a framework that demands and encourages collaboration, not just, as I said, in between individual institutions but across the entirety of the sector.We're doing that because that means we can avoid duplication, we can fill gaps that there currently are and we can create a system that allows for a seamless passage for students to move between the different partsof post-compulsory education that are currently available, where, sometimes, those students find barriers.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, Janet?Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you—that's great, thank you.Lynne Neagle AM:We've got some questions now around HEFCW's powers of intervention from Dawn Bowden.Dawn Bowden AM: Thank you, Chair. We received substantial evidence from HEFCW suggesting that powers were inflexibleand hard to use—I think HEFCW called them 'threatening'—saying that they make sanctions difficult to use and so on. Are you satisfied that HEFCW's powers are useful on a preventative day-to-day basis?Kirsty WilliamsAM: If I may disagree slightly, I don't think their powers are frightening. It's very clear what powers are available to HEFCW, and they're certainly more than just the ability to, maybe, lean on an institution. Clearly,there is a system by which there is the ability to, you know, ramp up and escalate levels of intervention in the sector by HEFCW, but I certainly wouldn't describe them as inflexible or not having weight.Dawn BowdenAM: I think they were saying it was difficult to use for swift interventions—they found it a bit cumbersome. They explained to us that they often take informal measures or actions in their role as regulator, and they'veexplained that the small size of the sector enables good relationships to be developed. How can such measures work in the tertiary education body when there clearly will be many more than the 10 providers?KirstyWilliams AM: Well, looking ahead to the new Bill, I would want to see and be very keen to ensure that there are sufficiently flexible—did you use the word soft—and soft regulatory powers that the commission couldexercise. Those powers, for instance, could include the ability to offer advice and guidance, rather than, maybe, punitive interventions, and powers to undertake enhanced monitoring of institutions to ensure compliancewith regulatory conditions. So, I would expect the commission to be able to have a series of abilities to intervene, from the soft, flexible type, which is non-punitive but actually allows people to go in and supportinstitutions, through to something that would be, as I said, more punitive, if they felt that an institution was in danger of not providing quality or financial failure.Hefin David AM: Can I just come in there, on the pointthat was made? The issue that seemed to me to come from HEFCW and from the universities is that the dial seems to have only three steps. So, rather than having a graduated series of actions that they can take, itseems to step from—what did he call it—a 'meeting without coffee' to—Kirsty Williams AM: That's a very HEFCW thing to say.Hefin David AM: —potentially institutions going bankrupt, and there don't seem to be manysteps in between that. I'd invite you to say whether you'd like to remedy that in future.Kirsty Williams AM: I think, as I said at the beginning of the session, this is why this post-legislative scrutiny is useful, because wecan reflect on that feedback. As I said, I would expect to be able to ensure that the commission had a range of powers that could address—from that soft power and those early conversations to being able to, as I said,issue, perhaps, advice and guidance to an institution, so there would be a more graduated escalation. Huw, is there anything else that I've missed out?Huw Morris: Just to build on what the Minister has said, there's arange of ways in which we interact with all institutions that are going to be in the tertiary sector, and some of that is about providing information. So, HEFCW provides information—it sends around circulars, it producesreports and it holds events. There's staff, management and leadership development activity, which can create a culture amongst the leaders of institutions, but also amongst their governing bodies, to help them movein a particular direction. We would hope that's in the direction of the civic university approach that the Minister has outlined. We use those mechanisms and informal interactions with FE college principals, with thework-based learning provider network, with sixth forms and others, and we would want to see, I hope, in the tertiary sector some alignment of those things. When things go badly wrong, there are a range ofmechanisms. I think what stands behind HEFCW's comments is that before we had a loan-based system of student finance, there was a system of block grant allocations and conditions could be attached to those grant"}
{"doc_id":"doc_112","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Okay . Right . Conceptual design meeting . Right . Okay , so {disfmarker} Right well um from the last meeting {vocalsound} I was trying to send you the minutes , but uh it didn't work out too well , somaybe in sort of um quick summary of the last uh meeting , I can quickly give you what we what we had .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh right , so {disfmarker} Wishing I hadn't closed the damn{disfmarker} Right so we had the fact that we're gonna have the the logo uh the company logo in its uh colour scheme incorporated onto the the device the remote device . We had uh made our decisions about uhmade our decisions about uh the device itself , that it was gonna be simple to make it uh enable us to complete the project in time . We're gonna have uh effectively two pages , a front page which had the uh featuresthat the uh the customers most wanted , and then the uh the backup features on the second page so that it could uh meet the technical requirements . And the customers wouldn't have to look at them too often , onlyas and when required . So . So basically what decisions uh have we uh made ? Uh have there been any uh changes ?Industrial Designer: I think we all have a presentation again ,Project Manager: Right .IndustrialDesigner: so if we go through those and then umMarketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Three presentation , yeah .Industrial Designer: {gap} . Shall I go first again ? {gap}Project Manager: So {disfmarker} Yeah , fine.Marketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: I see {gap} this a little more smoothly than the last one . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay right , let's get started . Um basically the uh forthe {disfmarker} Um I'll {gap} back actually . For the components design , um next step is basically the the way the remote's gonna work is still the same idea as before . We still have the user interface which is all thebuttons we're gonna incorporate . Then there is a chip and still the sender . So um yes {gap} including the power s supply as well . Um I'll go on to my findings in each of these areas . Uh first in the power supply , wehave the option of just the standard battery , um . {vocalsound} There's a dynamo . Any of you think of kind of like the the old torches which you wind up {gap} um . There's a kinetic option , which if any of you'veseen those new watches which you kind of you power up by waving around , um it just requires a small amount of movement which would mean the batteries wouldn't have to be replaced . Um that's one option,Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: but I think that was gonna cost a little more . And then there's solar cells . Um as a final option . For the buttons , we have um an integrated push button , which is{disfmarker} Oh just to say all all these are um supplied by Real Reaction . So I guess for the ease of for quickness and ease we should take them from at least like one of these options .Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: Um so for the buttons there's an integrated push button , which I guess is just the same as the standard ones . This says it's uh similar to uh the button on the mouse for a normal {disfmarker} forlike uh like modern computer . Um there's a scroll wheel which is {disfmarker} you know the new mouse has just got like the centre section which you can scroll up and down , which may be for the volume .ProjectManager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: You could do do that .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Um one issue for the buttons is , depending on which material we use , if we use rubber buttons then it requiresa rubber case , so we have to take that into consideration . Um moving on to the printed sProject Manager: What would be the cost do do we know ?Industrial Designer: Um that's on the next {disfmarker}ProjectManager: {gap}Industrial Designer: I th I think the there wasn't too much difference in the cost , that that related to the actual buttons , but it does affect the printed circuit board . Um which is the next section .Basically for the circuit board which is the middle , it's just {disfmarker} see it down there the chips like the like the workings of the actual um of the remote .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: The firmsupplies a simple , a regular and an advanced um circuit board . And there's different prices according to each . So if we've got the scroll wheel for one of the buttons , that would require a slightly more advanced circuitboard than if we just had a standard um push button .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Um one final thing we came up with was some information on the speech recognition . There's a small unitavailable through the company um which obviously would be an extra cost , but it wouldn't affect the size of the remote too much . Um and I guess that would require a more advanced circuit board , so there is an extraprice in that sense . There is th sorry an extra cost in that sense . Um going to my personal preferences , um I thought possibly for power we could use kinetic um which is the idea of the watches um that you move youmove the remote around to power it up . And this would avoid batteries running out , having to replace batteries and such like . Um for the buttons , I thought we'd probably get away with just having the standard umpush buttons rather than the scroll wheel . Um and for the circuit board , again depends on which features we want in the actual in the remote . So if we wanted the scroll wheel and wanted the voice recognition , umthen we'd have to get a a more costly circuit board . And that's it .Marketing: 'Kay .Project Manager: {gap} with the printed circuit boards you were going for the {disfmarker}User Interface: Thanks .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Um i it kind of depends um if we're gonna have the speech recognition , we'd have to probably get an advanced one . I'm guessing .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Uhbut I don't know , so that is something I'll have to look into .Project Manager: But are we going f R right .Industrial Designer: Um that's a that's a decision for all of us . Um .Project Manager: So are we able to make thatdecision now in a sense that this is the point at which we're discussing that issue ,Industrial Designer: Yeah yeah . We decide . Yeah .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: so would it not be best to {disfmarker}rather than {disfmarker} I mean one way is to do each of the presentations and then make decisions going back to the various presentations as they were . The other way would be to do the presentationMarketing:Mm-hmm .Project Manager: and then make the decision at that point in time .Industrial Designer: Um . Maybe wUser Interface: Yeah , that's probably a better one , to discuss it straight away .Project Manager: 'Causeat that point then you've got the details up there , so if we wanted to know for instance that the scroll wheel required the regular {gap} and what required advance . Then if we were able to see that down then we couldmake the decision at that point in timeIndustrial Designer: Um .Project Manager: and then that would be the end of that issue . Does that make sense ?Industrial Designer: Yes .User Interface: {vocalsound} Um I havea lot of the information there .Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: It might not be very clear .Industrial Designer: Is there {disfmarker}User Interface: Unless you want to plug it back in to yours .Industrial Designer:Um . We could do , yeah . Um yeah we should {gap} .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: As I say it only specified that we need a more advanced circuit board for the scroll wheel ,Project Manager:Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: it didn't {disfmarker} The voice recognition came as a separate piece of information . Um .Project Manager: No the scroll wheel required the regular , so the {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: Yeah if if you {gap} down um . It's just this bit at the bottom which I've highlighted ,Project Manager: Hmm .Industrial Designer: but the scroll wheel requires a mini m minimally a regular chip ,ProjectManager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: which is in the higher price range .Project Manager: Okay . The display requires an advanced chipUser Interface: I think the scroll wheel um {disfmarker}Project Manager:the display requires an advanced chip which in turn is more expense .Industrial Designer: Also the display's for something else which we decided against . Um but that bit {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay .IndustrialDesigner: And note that the push button just requires a simple chip , so that would keep the price down .Project Manager: Down .User Interface: Yeah , and if we're going for sleek and sexy , I think a scroll wheel ismaybe a bit kinda bulky ?Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: I I've got um pictures well I've seen pictures with it kind of sticking off the side of it ,Project Manager: Right . Okay .User Interface: and they don't reallylook great .Industrial Designer: 'Kay . So maybe just a simple push button , and that would cut costs on the {disfmarker}Project Manager: So . So we're going for p Okay . So {gap} is um {disfmarker}Marketing: Soare we going for the w are we going for the simple one , are we ?User Interface: Yeah , a simple pushbuttons .Project Manager: Simple push button . {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: {gap} Dideveryone get this on the speech recognition ? The um it was basically what we said before , the idea that you record in a set message , and then it picks up that message um and replies to you .Project Manager:Mm-hmm .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: So it is basically the concept we discussed before . Um but then we don't know for sure whether it would require a more complicated circuit board .Marketing:{gap}Industrial Designer: I'm guessing it would , but {gap} got like the definite information . Maybe we should go on what we're certain of rather than {disfmarker}Project Manager: So if we go for the simple pushbutton , so effectively we're going for the simple printed circuit board are we ? Or are we going for the regular ?Industrial Designer: Um if it's just the push button then it just needs the simple circuit board .ProjectManager: Mm-mm . But is there any other {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I mean okay , that's true for the {disfmarker} for for that element , but we have to take all {gap} el elements into consideration . And so if there isone element that requires the more expensive one , or say the regular one , or the more advanced , then that would have to be the same for all of them . SMarketing: Mm .User Interface: Hmm . But{disfmarker}Marketing: I suppose we need we need to find out what circuit board that requires , maybe before we {gap} m make a decision .Project Manager: Right .User Interface: But the way that I interpret that umit doesn't seem to send out a signal to the telly , it just {disfmarker} it's like a parrot just rep reply replying to your message .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Oh yeah , I suppose so , yeah .Industrial Designer:So maybe that would be something separate , yeah .User Interface: So I don't think it would effect our circuit board .Project Manager: No .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Okay , so we'd have a simple circuitboardProject Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and that would be an extra that would be in addition to it .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Oh that makes sense .User Interface: And I don't think youcould really perform any of the remote functions with it .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: 'Cause the example that they've given there is good morning coffee machine , good morning Jo .Project Manager: Mm-mm .UserInterface: It might be useful to say like where are you remote . Here I am , Jo .Industrial Designer: Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} ButI think that's maybe as far as that one could go ?Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah that makes sense , so we'd stick with the simple circuit board and then think of the speechrecognition as an extra an extra possibility .User Interface: Yeah , just as a fun way to find it .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay . Um .Project Manager: Simple circuit board . Simple push button .Okay . W w kinetic .User Interface: And it says that {disfmarker}Project Manager: You were you were wanting to go for the kinetic power supply .User Interface: I think it said the cost of that isn't too much .IndustrialDesigner: Um yeah I I thought so just for {disfmarker} just for ease of not having to replace the batteries .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Um .Project Manager: And how does itget uh charged up ?Industrial Designer: It's um I think it works on the basis they have some kind of ball bearings inside . It's um it's some on watches which you you kind of you shake to power it up . Somehow themechanism inside powers up through movement .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: So you'd you'd move the remote around a little bit and then that powers it up to use it .ProjectManager: Okay .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: So the speech recognition was {disfmarker} Are we going for speech recognition ? No ? 'Cause that required the advanced {disfmarker}User Interface: Um I think itwould be helpful to find it , but I don't think it'd um {disfmarker}Marketing: Just {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Uh yeah I think {disfmarker} did we decide it didn't affect the circuit board , it just affected{disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah , I think so .Marketing: Just just for the call and find thing .Industrial Designer: It was just {disfmarker}Project Manager: I had speech recognition requires advanced reqrequireIndustrial Designer: Oh no th that's what that's what I thought , but maybe maybe it doesn't {gap} .Project Manager: Oh .Industrial Designer: Um I think I might have got that wrong .Project Manager: So okay.Marketing: 'Cause it's s it's separate isn't it ,Project Manager: Speech recognition you reckon then is s simple .Marketing: it's not part of the {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: It's it's just an addition thing it's um yeah.Project Manager: And so we would want it in as an extra because it doesn't appear to cost too much . Would that be {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: 'Kay .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Mm-hmm .IndustrialDesigner: 'Kay shall I pass on to you now ?User Interface: I think {disfmarker}Project Manager: In fact , it wouldn't really cost anymore , would it ?User Interface: I'll just just check what it said . Actually I don't think itreally says anything about the cost , but it says that it's already in the coffee machines , so like it's already kind of {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: I assume it would cost extra , but {disfmarker}Maybe we maybe we'll find out how much that does cost and have to decide slightly later .Project Manager: {vocalsound} And then have to change all {vocalsound} change {gap} everything at the last minute .UserInterface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay . SUser Interface: Um . {vocalsound} Oh , that was quick . Um okay , so very brief presentation , um . From looking at the remotes that are out there at the minute ,none of them are particularly um sleek and sexy . Um I haven't actually got the examples of the scroll button there , um but there's some curved cases that you can see , uh a range of sizes uh . All of them have a lot ofbuttons there um they seem to just have the rubber buttons . Does that move it ?Project Manager: Sorry ?User Interface: It just seems to be skipping on without us doing anything . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah, I've found that {gap} try and get it back .Industrial Designer: If you right click and then go onto a previous slide .User Interface: Ah it's alright .Industrial Designer: Okay , right .User Interface: Um . There wasn'tmuch more to say about that , just rambling . {vocalsound} Um some of the uh remotes that I looked at , one of the models da did actually have voice recognition where you could um where it was connected to theremote control functions . And uh it was quite uh a swish model , where it can control uh four devices , T_V_ , cable , satellite , video , D_V_D_ , audio . Um so that's a bit of competition there . So I mean maybe it'sbetter not to try and compete with that sort of thing and just to market it as a completely different um like different viewpoint as a kind of finding your lost controlIndustrial Designer: Yeah , yeah .User Interface: ratherthan trying to compete with the functions . Um the scroll buttons , as you've already mentioned , um there's examples of those , but they don't look as sleek as other models . And there's no real advantage and{disfmarker} because it impacts on other {disfmarker} on the materials and the price it's not great .Industrial Designer: On the price , yeah .Project Manager: So you were saying the scroll buttons {disfmarker}UserInterface: Um {disfmarker} Yeah . Th there was a specialist type of remote that we could think about , um . There was children's remote , where um they just had a very limited range of buttons and they were b uhbright and colourful and um you you could program them so that they could only look at certain channels .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: 'Kay .User Interface: Um but I don't know if that's really in ourfield ?Industrial Designer: I guess I guess we're going for the biggest market , {gap} maybe not ,User Interface: But that's something that's out there .Industrial Designer: but {disfmarker} Was it was it specified thatwe went for the biggest ?Project Manager: Well we're to go for the international market rather than a local market but that that wouldn't necessarily preclude {disfmarker}User Interface: Hmm .Project Manager: Theone thing that you can often do with products is you can uh make small modifications . So you have your basic model which you would sell at whatever , and then you could have additional features in you know like a{disfmarker} You'd have model one , model two and model three , and therefore you can sub-divide your market up . But that's really where your field is .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm-hmm .ProjectManager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So maybe the children's remote should be like a a next step , but maybe I dunno for ours , maybe we should {disfmarker}Project Manager: Anyway you couldadd on for an extra package , but on this basic one I'm reckoning that we're going for the basic model to be discussed here and that uh you would have for future reference the possibility of adding in extra features atextra cost to take care of specialist market segments .User Interface: Hmm .Marketing: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: Is thatUser Interface: Right well that's something that we can beaware of .Project Manager: So so what are we deciding to do here ?User Interface: Um . I think because there's already um very good voice recognition technology out there , and because ours might not cover thesame functions that the leading brands do , it might be a good idea to market it as a um finder function .Project Manager: Right . Mm-hmm . Uh the fi Yeah , the finder function rather than as a speech function to findyour remote .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: So you also said for going for the international market um that some some maybe older people might not likethe speech recognition . S s so um {disfmarker}User Interface: Oh yeah . Different languages might not be compatible .Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah . It w it would make it quite complicated ,Project Manager: Hmm.Industrial Designer: where um ours at least keeps it fairly simple and then the {disfmarker}User Interface: Hmm .Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Yeah , 'cause I think you program um this one yourself , like tosay like whatever you want to your question .Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah .Marketing: Yeah and ours is quite a cheap device , so I don't know how much we'll be able to put into it .Industrial Designer: Yeah .ProjectManager: So you'd have a finder feature rather than a voice recognition feature .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: Hmm .Project Manager: And you were talkingUser Interface: Maybe unless something else comes up.Project Manager: Mm . And you were talking about scroll buttons ?User Interface: Um yeah I think um I think we've decided that it's gonna increase the costProject Manager: Okay .User Interface: and give no realkinda extra benefitProject Manager: {gap} bIndustrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: and it's gonna decrease from the sleekness of it .Project Manager: Alright , so we're just gonna have the the rubber buttons , wasthat right ?Industrial Designer: Yes yes .User Interface: Hmm um and just to be aware that there are kind of specialist functions and specialist remotes but we probably don't want to focus on those like such as the"}
{"doc_id":"doc_113","qid":"","text":"Grad D: Channel one .PhD G: Test .PhD E: Hello .Grad D: Channel three .PhD G: Test .PhD A: Uh - oh .Professor F: So you think we 're going now , yes ? OK , good . Alright Going again Uh {disfmarker} So we 're gonnago around as before , and uh do {disfmarker} do our digits . Uh transcript one three one one dash one three three zero . {comment} three two three {comment} four seven six five {comment} five three one six twofour one {comment} six seven {comment} seven {comment} eight {comment} nine zero nine four zero zero three {comment} zero one five eight {comment} one seven three five three {comment} two six eight zero{comment} three six two four three zero seven {comment} four {comment} five zero six nine four {comment} seven four {comment} eight five seven {comment} nine six one five {comment} O seven eight O two{comment} zero nine six zero four zero zero {comment} one {comment} two {comment} Uh {disfmarker} Yeah , you don't actually n need to say the name .Grad C: OK , {vocalsound} this is Barry Chen and I amreading transcriptProfessor F: That 'll probably be bleeped out .Grad C: OK .Professor F: So . That 's if these are anonymized , but {vocalsound} Yeah {disfmarker}Grad C: Oh . {comment} OK .Professor F: uh{disfmarker} I mean {disfmarker} not that there 's anything defamatory about uh {disfmarker} eight five seven or {vocalsound} or anything , butGrad C: OK .Professor F: Uh , anyway . Uh {disfmarker} so here 'swhat I have for {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I was just jotting down things I think th w that we should do today . Uh {disfmarker} This is what I have for an agenda so far Um , We should talk a little bit about the plansfor the uh {disfmarker} the field trip next week . Uh {disfmarker} a number of us are doing a field trip to uh Uh {disfmarker} OGI And uh {disfmarker} mostly uh First though about the logistics for it . Then maybelater on in the meeting we should talk about what we actually you know , might accomplish . Uh {disfmarker}Grad C: OK .Professor F: Uh , in and {pause} kind of go around {disfmarker} see what people have beendoing {disfmarker} talk about that , {pause} a r progress report . Um , Essentially . Um {disfmarker} And then uh {disfmarker} Another topic I had was that uh {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} Uh {disfmarker} Davehere had uh said uh \" Give me something to do . \" And I {disfmarker} I have {disfmarker} I have uh {disfmarker} failed so far in doing that . And so maybe we can discuss that a little bit . If we find some holes in somethings that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} someone could use some help with , he 's {disfmarker} he 's volunteering to help .PhD A: I 've got to move a bunch of furniture .Professor F: OK , always count on a{vocalsound} serious comment from that corner . So , um , uh , and uh , then uh , talk a little bit about {disfmarker} about disks and resource {disfmarker} resource issues that {disfmarker} that 's starting to getworked out . And then , anything else anybody has that isn't in that list ? Uh {disfmarker}Grad D: I was just wondering , does this mean the battery 's dying and I should change it ?Professor F: Uh I think that meansthe battery 's O K . {disfmarker}PhD A: Let me see .Professor F: d {disfmarker} do youGrad D: Oh OK , so thPhD A: Yeah , that 's good . You 're alright ?Grad D: Cuz it 's full .Professor F: Yeah . Yeah .Grad D: Alright.Professor F: Yeah . Yeah . It looks full of electrons . OK . Plenty of electrons left there . OK , so , um , uh . OK , so , uh , I wanted to start this with this mundane thing . Um {disfmarker} Uh {disfmarker} I {disfmarker}I {disfmarker} it was {disfmarker} it was kind of my bright idea to have us take a plane that leaves at seven twenty in the morning .Grad C: Oh , yeah , that 's right .Professor F: Um . Uh {vocalsound} this is uh{disfmarker} The reason I did it uh was because otherwise for those of us who have to come back the same day it is really not much of a {disfmarker} of a visit . Uh {disfmarker} So um the issue is how {disfmarker}how {disfmarker} how would we ever accomplish that ? Uh {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what part of town do you live in ?Grad C: Um , I live in , um , the corner of campus . The , um , southeastcorner .Professor F: OK . OK , so would it be easier {disfmarker} those of you who are not , you know , used to this area , it can be very tricky to get to the airport at {disfmarker} at uh , you know , six thirty . Um . So. Would it be easier for you if you came here and I drove you ? Yeah ? Yeah , yeah , OK .PhD G: Yeah , perhaps , yeah .Grad C: Yeah . Sure .PhD E: Yeah .Professor F: OK , so if {disfmarker} if everybody can get hereat six .PhD E: At six .Professor F: Yeah , I 'm afraid we need to do that to get there on time .Grad C: Six , OK .Professor F: Yeah , so . Oh boy . Anyway , so .PhD A: Will that {pause} be enough time ?Professor F: Yeah .Yeah , so I 'll just pull up in front at six and just be out front . And , uh , and yeah , that 'll be plenty of time . It 'll take {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it won't be bad traffic that time of day and{disfmarker} and uhPhD A: I guess once you get past the bridge {pause} that that would be the worst .PhD B: Yeah , Oakland .Professor F: Going to Oakland .PhD A: Yeah .Grad C: Oakland .PhD A: Once you get pastthe turnoff to the {pause} Bay Bridge .Professor F: Bridge oh , the turnoff to the bridgePhD A: Yeah .Professor F: Won't even do that .PhD B: Yeah .Professor F: I mean , just go down Martin Luther King .PhD A: Yeah .OK . Mm - hmm .Professor F: And then Martin Luther King to nine - eighty to eight - eighty ,PhD A: Yeah .Professor F: and it 's {disfmarker} it 'd take us , tops uh thirty minutes to get there .PhD A: Oh , I{disfmarker}Professor F: So that leaves us fifty minutes before the plane {disfmarker} it 'll just {disfmarker} yeah . So Great , OK so that 'll It 's {disfmarker} I mean , it 's still not going to be really easy but{disfmarker} well Particularly for {disfmarker} for uh {disfmarker} for Barry and me , we 're not {disfmarker} we 're not staying overnight so we don't need to bring anything particularly except for {vocalsound} uh{disfmarker} a pad of paper and {disfmarker} {vocalsound} So , and , uh you , two have to bring a little bitGrad C: OK .Professor F: but uh {disfmarker} you know , don't {disfmarker} don't bring a footlocker and we'll be OK So .Grad C: s So just {disfmarker}Professor F: W you 're staying overnight . I figured you wouldn't need a great big suitcase , yeah .PhD G: Oh yeah . Yeah .Professor F: That 's sort of {pause} {vocalsound}one night . So . Anyway . OK .Grad C: So , s six AM , in front .Professor F: Six AM in front .Grad C: OK .Professor F: Uh , I 'll be here . Uh {disfmarker} I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll give youmy phone number , If I 'm not here for a few m after a few minutes thenGrad C: Wake you up .Professor F: Nah , I 'll be fine . I just , uh {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} for me it just means getting up a half an hourearlier than I usually do . Not {disfmarker} not {disfmarker} not a lot ,Grad C: OK . Wednesday .Professor F: so OK , that was the real real important stuff . Um , I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I figured maybe wait onthe potential goals for the meeting uh {disfmarker} until we talk about wh what 's been going on . So , uh , what 's been going on ? Why don't we start {disfmarker} start over here .PhD G: Um . {vocalsound} Well ,preparation of the French test data actually .Professor F: OK .PhD G: So , {vocalsound} it means that um , well , it is , uh , a digit French database of microphone speech , downsampled to eight kilohertz and I 've addednoise to one part , with the {disfmarker} actually the Aurora - two noises . And , @ @ so this is a training part . And then {pause} the remaining part , I use for testing and {disfmarker} with other kind of noises . Sowe can {disfmarker} So this is almost ready . I 'm preparing the {disfmarker} the HTK baseline for this task . And , yeah .Professor F: OK Uh , So the HTK base lines {disfmarker} so this is using mel cepstra and so on ,or {disfmarker} ? Yeah . OK .PhD G: Yeah .Professor F: And again , I guess the p the plan is , uh , to uh {disfmarker} then given this {disfmarker} What 's the plan again ?PhD G: The plan with {pause} these data?Professor F: With {disfmarker} So {disfmarker} So {disfmarker} Does i Just remind me of what {disfmarker} what you were going to do with the {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what{disfmarker} what 's {disfmarker} y You just described what you 've been doing . So if you could remind me of what you 're going to be doing .PhD G: Yeah .Professor F: Oh , this is {disfmarker} yeah , yeah .PhD G:Uh , yeah .Grad C: Tell him about the cube .PhD G: Well . The cube ? I should tell him about the cube ?Grad C: Yeah .Professor F: Oh ! Cube . Yeah .PhD G: Yeah .PhD E: Fill in the cube .PhD G: Uh we {disfmarker}actually we want to , mmm , Uh , {vocalsound} uh , analyze three dimensions , the feature dimension , the {pause} training data dimension , and the test data dimension . Um . Well , what we want to do is first wehave number for each {pause} uh task . So we have the um , TI - digit task , the Italian task , the French task {pause} and the Finnish task .Professor F: Yeah ?PhD G: So we have numbers with {pause} uh{disfmarker} systems {disfmarker} I mean {disfmarker} I mean neural networks trained on the task data . And then to have systems with neural networks trained on , {vocalsound} uh , data from the same language ,if possible , with , well , using a more generic database , which is phonetically {disfmarker} phonetically balanced , and . Um .Professor F: So - so we had talked {disfmarker} I guess we had talked at one point aboutmaybe , the language ID corpus ?PhD G: Yeah . So .Professor F: Is that a possibility for that ?PhD G: Ye - uh {disfmarker} {pause} Yeah , but , uh these corpus , w w there is a CallHome and a CallFriend also , TheCallFriend is for language ind identification . Well , anyway , these corpus are all telephone speech . So , um . {vocalsound} This could be a {disfmarker} {pause} a problem for {disfmarker} Why ? Because uh , uh ,the {disfmarker} the SpeechDat databases are not telephone speech . They are downsampled to eight kilohertz but {disfmarker} but they are not {vocalsound} uh with telephone bandwidth .Professor F: Yeah . That 'sreally funny isn't it ? I mean cuz th this whole thing is for {pause} developing new standards for the telephone .Grad C: Telephone .Professor F: Yeah .PhD G: Yeah , but the {disfmarker} the idea is to compute thefeature before {pause} the {disfmarker} before sending them to the {disfmarker} Well , {pause} you don't {disfmarker} do not send speech , you send features , computed on th the {disfmarker} {pause} the device,Professor F: Mm - hmm . Yeah , I know , but the reason {disfmarker}PhD G: or {disfmarker} Well .Professor F: Oh I see , so your point is that it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's uh {disfmarker} the features arecomputed locally , and so they aren't necessarily telephone bandwidth , uh or telephone distortions .PhD G: So you {disfmarker} Yeah . Yeah .PhD A: Did you {pause} happen to find out anything about the OGImultilingual database ?Professor F: Yeah , that 's wh that 's wh that 's what I meant .PhD G: Yeah , it 's {disfmarker}Professor F: I said {disfmarker} @ @ , there 's {disfmarker} there 's {disfmarker} there 's an OGIlanguage ID , not the {disfmarker} not the , uh {disfmarker} the CallFriend is a {disfmarker} is a , uh , LDC w thing , right ?PhD G: Yea - Yeah , there are also two other databases . One they call the multi - languagedatabase , and another one is a twenty - two language , something like that . But it 's also telephone speech .PhD A: Oh , they are ? OK .PhD G: Uh . Well , nnn .Professor F: But I 'm not sure {disfmarker}PhD G: So{disfmarker}Professor F: I mean , we ' r e e The bandwidth shouldn't be such an issue right ? Because e e this is downsampled and {disfmarker} and filtered , right ? So it 's just the fact that it 's not telephone . Andthere are so many other differences between these different databases . I mean some of this stuff 's recorded in the car , and some of it 's {disfmarker} I mean there 's {disfmarker} there 's many different acousticdifferences . So I 'm not sure if {disfmarker} . I mean , unless we 're going to include a bunch of car recordings in the {disfmarker} in the training database , I 'm not sure if it 's {disfmarker} completely rules it outPhDG: Yeah .Professor F: if our {disfmarker} if we {disfmarker} if our major goal is to have phonetic context and you figure that there 's gonna be a mismatch in acoustic conditions does it make it much worse f to sort ofadd another mismatch , if you will .PhD G: Mmm .Professor F: Uh , i i I {disfmarker} I guess the question is how important is it to {disfmarker} for us to get multiple languages uh , in there .PhD G: Yeah , but{disfmarker} Mm - hmm . {vocalsound} Um . Yeah . Well , actually , for the moment if we w do not want to use these phone databases , we {disfmarker} we already have uh {disfmarker} English , Spanish and Frenchuh , with microphone speech . Professor F: Mm - hmm . Yeah .PhD G: So .Professor F: So that 's what you 're thinking of using is sort of the multi the equivalent of the multiple ?PhD G: Well . Yeah , for the multilingualpart we were thinking of using these three databases .Professor F: And for the difference in phonetic context {pause} that you {disfmarker} ? Provide that .PhD G: Well , this {disfmarker} Uh , actually , these threedatabases are um generic databases .PhD E: Yeah .PhD G: So w f for {disfmarker} for uh Italian , which is close to Spanish , French and , i i uh , TI - digits we have both uh , digits {pause} training data and also{pause} more general training data . So . Mmm .Professor F: Well , we also have this Broadcast News that we were talking about taking off the disk , which is {disfmarker} {vocalsound} is microphone data for{disfmarker} for English .PhD G: Yeah . Yeah , perhaps {disfmarker} yeah , there is also TIMIT .Professor F: Yeah .PhD G: We could use TIMIT .Professor F: Right . Yeah , so there 's plenty of stuff around . OK , soanyway , th the basic plan is to , uh , test this cube . Yes .PhD G: Yeah .PhD E: To fill in the cube .Professor F: To fill i fill it in , yeah . OK .PhD G: Yeah , and perhaps , um {disfmarker} {pause} We were thinking thatperhaps the cross - language issue is not , uh , so big of a issue . Well , w w we {disfmarker} perhaps we should not focus too much on that cross - language stuff . I mean , uh , training {disfmarker} training a net on alanguage and testing a for another language .Professor F: Uh - huh . But that 's {disfmarker}PhD G: Mmm . Perhaps the most important is to have neural networks trained on the target languages . But , uh , with ageneral database {disfmarker} general databases . u So that th Well , the {disfmarker} the guy who has to develop an application with one language can use the net trained o on that language , or a generic net,Professor F: Uh , depen it depen it depends how you mean \" using the net \" .PhD G: but not trained on a {disfmarker}Professor F: So , if you 're talking about for producing these discriminative features {pause} thatwe 're talking about {pause} you can't do that .PhD G: Mmm .Professor F: Because {disfmarker} because the {disfmarker} what they 're asking for is {disfmarker} is a feature set . Right ? And so , uh , we 're the oneswho have been weird by {disfmarker} by doing this training . But if we say , \" No , you have to have a different feature set for each language , \" I think this is ver gonna be very bad .PhD G: Yeah .Grad C: Oh .PhD G:You think so .Grad C: That 's {disfmarker}PhD E: Oh .Professor F: So {disfmarker} Oh yeah .PhD G: Mmm .Professor F: Yeah . I mean , in principle , I mean conceptually , it 's sort of like they want a re @ @{comment} well , they want a replacement for mel cepstra .PhD G: Mmm .Professor F: So , we say \" OK , this is the year two thousand , we 've got something much better than mel cepstra . It 's , you know , gobbledy- gook . \" OK ? And so {vocalsound} we give them these gobbledy - gook features but these gobbledy - gook features are supposed to be good for any language .PhD G: Hmm .Professor F: Cuz you don't know who 'sgonna call , and you know , I mean so it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's , uh , uh {disfmarker} how do you know what language it is ? Somebody picks up the phone . So thi this is their image . Someone picks upthe phone , right ?PhD G: Well , I {comment} chh {disfmarker}Professor F: And {disfmarker} and he {disfmarker} he picks up the phPhD G: Yeah , but the {disfmarker} the application is {disfmarker} there is a targetlanguage for the application .Professor F: Yeah . y y yPhD G: So , if a {disfmarker}Professor F: Well . But , no but , y you {disfmarker} you pick up the phone ,PhD G: Well .Professor F: you talk on the phone ,PhD G:Yeah ?Professor F: and it sends features out . OK , so the phone doesn't know what a {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what your language is .PhD G: Yeah , if {disfmarker} Yeah . If it 's th in the phone , but{disfmarker}Professor F: But that 's the image that they have .PhD G: well , it {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that could be th at the server 's side ,Professor F: It could be ,PhD G: and , well . Mmm , yeah .Professor F:but that 's the image they have , right ? So that 's {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} I mean , one could argue all over the place about how things really will be in ten years . But the particular image that the cellularindustry has right now is that it 's distributed speech recognition , where the , uh , uh , probabilistic part , and {disfmarker} and s semantics and so forth are all on the servers , and you compute features of the{disfmarker} uh , on the phone . So that 's {disfmarker} that 's what we 're involved in . We might {disfmarker} might or might not agree that that 's the way it will be in ten years , but that 's {disfmarker} that 's{disfmarker} that 's what they 're asking for . So {disfmarker} so I think that {disfmarker} th th it is an important issue whether it works cross - language . Now , it 's the OGI , uh , folks ' perspective right now thatprobably that 's not the biggest deal . And that the biggest deal is the , um envir acoustic - environment mismatch . And they may very well be right , but I {disfmarker} I was hoping we could just do a test anddetermine if that was true . If that 's true , we don't need to worry so much . Maybe {disfmarker} maybe we have a couple languages in the training set and that gives us enough breadth uh , uh , that {disfmarker} that{disfmarker} that the rest doesn't matter . Um , the other thing is , uh , this notion of training to uh {disfmarker} which I {disfmarker} I guess they 're starting to look at up there , {comment} training to somethingmore like articulatory features . Uh , and if you have something that 's just good for distinguishing different articulatory features that should just be good across , you know , a wide range of languages .PhD G: Yeah.Professor F: Uh , but {disfmarker} Yeah , so I don't th I know {disfmarker} unfortunately I don't {disfmarker} I see what you 're comi where you 're coming from , I think , but I don't think we can ignore it .PhD G: Sowe {disfmarker} we really have to do test with a real cross - language . I mean , tr for instance training on English and testing on Italian , or {disfmarker} Or we can train {disfmarker} or else , uh , can we train a neton , uh , a range of languages and {disfmarker} which can include the test {disfmarker} the test @ @ the target language ,Grad C: Test on an unseen .PhD G: or {disfmarker}Professor F: Yeah , so , um , there 's{disfmarker} there 's , uh {disfmarker} This is complex . So , ultimately , uh , as I was saying , I think it doesn't fit within their image that you switch nets based on language . Now , can you include , uh , the{disfmarker} the target language ?PhD G: Yeah .Professor F: Um , from a purist 's standpoint it 'd be nice not to because then you can say when {disfmarker} because surely someone is going to say at some point , \"OK , so you put in the German and the Finnish .PhD G: Mmm .Professor F: Uh , now , what do you do , uh , when somebody has Portuguese ? \" you know ? Um , and {disfmarker} Uh , however , you aren't{disfmarker} it isn't actually a constraint in this evaluation . So I would say if it looks like there 's a big difference to put it in , then we 'd make note of it , and then we probably put in the other , because we have somany other problems in trying to get things to work well here that {disfmarker} that , you know , it 's not so bad as long as we {disfmarker} we note it and say , \" Look , we did do this \" .PhD G: Mmm ?PhD A: And so ,ideally , what you 'd wanna do is you 'd wanna run it with and without the target language and the training set for a wide range of languages .Professor F: Uh . Yeah .PhD G: Yeah , perhaps . Yeah .PhD A: And that way"}
{"doc_id":"doc_114","qid":"","text":"Lynne Neagle AM: Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to the first virtual meeting of the Children, Young People and Education Committee. In accordance with Standing Order 34.19, I determine that the public areexcluded from the committee's meeting, in order to protect public health. In accordance with Standing Order 34.21, notice of this decision was included in the agenda for this meeting, which was published last Friday.This meeting is, however, being broadcast live on Senedd.tv, with all participants joining via video conference. A record of the proceedings will be published as usual. Aside from the procedural adaptation relating toconducting proceedings remotely, all other Standing Order requirements for committees remain in place. The meeting is bilingual, and simultaneous translation from Welsh to English is available. Can I remind allparticipants that the microphones will be controlled centrally, so there's no need to turn them on and off individually? Can I ask whether there are any declarations of interest, please? No. Okay. Thank you. Can I justthen, again, note for the record that, if, for any reason, I drop out of the meeting, the committee has agreed that Dawn Bowden AM will temporarily chair while I try to rejoin? Item 2, then, this afternoon is an evidencesession with the Welsh Government on the impact of the coronavirus epidemic on education in Wales. I'm very pleased to welcome Kirsty Williams AM, Minister for Education, Steve Davies, director of the educationdirectorate, and Huw Morris, who is group director, skills, higher education and lifelong learning. Can I welcome you all and thank you for attending? Minister, I understand you'd like to make a short openingstatement.Kirsty Williams AM: Thank you very much, Lynne. And indeed, if I could just begin by, once again, putting on the record my gratitude to everyone who is helping us get through this pandemic. There are avast number of people who are keeping our school hubs open, looking after vulnerable children, and the children of key workers. Because of them, and their efforts, those key workers are able to carry on their criticalroles in responding to COVID-19. I am extremely proud of the way that members of the school community have gone above and beyond. They have kept their schools open out of hours, over the weekends, on bankholidays, and Easter. And it is really heartening and humbling to see the way that they have responded to this crisis. And there are teachers, teaching assistants, and many others, who are helping our children and theirparents to keep learning at home. I know that home schooling isn't easy, so I want to say also thank you to parents and carers for their efforts at this time. By keeping their children at home, they are helping us to keeppeople safe, and reducing pressure on our education system, and on our NHS. Be in no doubt, we are facing many challenges because of this pandemic. My primary concern is, and always will be, the health andwell-being of our children, of our young people, and of all the staff in our education settings. And I am very grateful to everyone who is supporting us in these endeavours. Thank you very much—diolch yn fawr. And I'mnow happy to answer questions that members of the committee may have this afternoon.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you very much, Minister. I'm sure that the committee echoes the heartfelt thanks you have just giventhen. The first questions we've got this afternoon are from Hefin David.Hefin David AM: Good afternoon, Minister. With regard to your five principles, which you've set out today, regarding when schools will reopen,they're very clear that they require a judgment from you. So could you outline when you think that schools might reopen?Kirsty Williams AM: Thank you, Hefin. I am very clear that schools will move to a newphase—because, already, schools are open in many settings; we will move to a new phase when it is safe to do so and when I have advice from the chief medical officer and the chief scientific officer that it is safe to doso. I have made very clear in my statement that that is not imminent. I know that in some cases there has been speculation that a return to normal could be with us quite shortly. I'm clear that a return to normal is notimminent, and therefore I'm not in a position to give a date as to when we will see more schools opening up to more children.Hefin David AM: Have you been given any indication at all by the chief medical officer as towhen, in the longer term, it might be?Kirsty Williams AM: No, I have not been given a date. What I have done today is publish the principles that will aid me in, as you said, me making a decision. So, clearly, we will berelying on the advice of our medical and scientific advisers, but the principles are very clear. Firstly, we will need to consider any decision to have more children returning to school in the context of the safety and thephysical and the emotional well-being of children and young people and the staff. Obviously, I can't make a decision regarding education in isolation. It will have to be taken in the context of the wider WelshGovernment response to dealing with this pandemic. Thirdly, it is absolutely crucial in making any decisions that we have clearly communicated that to parents and to staff, on the information that we have used toreach any decisions, to build confidence for parents and professionals, but also to give them time to plan. It will be impossible to move quickly to new ways of working. And we also have to look at—and it's beenparaphrased quite a lot today—if we are looking at certain groups of children accessing more education within a school setting, which groups they should be. And, finally, how do we operationalise that? How do we makethose settings as safe as they possibly can be, and how do we tackle some of the difficult challenges of everything from ensuring that we have adequate numbers of workforce available, to the very real questions abouthow you would do social distancing in the context of education, school transport issues, how you would avoid people gathering at the school gate, for instance? So, there are very practical issues that would need to beconsidered and thought through very, very carefully before we could return, before what we could see is a move from where we are now to the next phase of education, and new approaches to what schooling may looklike. But, again, I must be absolutely clear to you, members of the committee, and to people watching: it is not feasible, in this sense, that we would move from where we are now to what all of us would regard asnormal education and what the operation of schools looked like before the start of this pandemic.Hefin David AM: So, what is clear from what you've said is that it's going to be phased return. I would assume that wouldbe the most vulnerable—perhaps additional learning needs pupils would return first. Just reading some of the things that you've said today, can you answer that question? And can I also ask: you said that guidingprinciple No. 3 will be having the confidence of parents, staff and students, based on evidence and information, so they can plan ahead. What will that evidence and information be, and how will you know that you've gotthe confidence of parents to return?Kirsty Williams AM: Well, as I said, primarily, we will need to take a lead from our scientific and medical advisers. I want to also say that we are obviously working on a four-nationbasis and keeping in very close contact with my counterparts in Northern Ireland, Scotland and England. But we're also looking beyond the United Kingdom to approaches to education in the face of this pandemic.Members are aware that we as a nation are a member of the Atlantic Rim Collaboratory. So, recently I was able to talk to educationalists and Ministers in Iceland, other parts of Europe, North America, South Americaand Australia. So, we're also looking at best international evidence in this regard. And, clearly, we will need to be very clear, as today is an attempt to be very clear with parents and our teaching professionals, and theunions that represent them, about the basis of that evidence.Hefin David AM: And could I just ask, with regard to the principles, do they then apply to further education and universities?Kirsty Williams AM: Well, ofcourse, when we are discussing these challenges, we are doing that with our colleagues in both the school sector but also our colleagues in the FE sector, and we're in close contact with colleagues in higher education toshare thinking on these matters.Hefin David AM: But these principles don't apply in those circumstances; these are principles for schools only.Kirsty Williams AM: These principles are applying to both, and our work inthis area is applying to both schools and FE colleges. Clearly, universities, as independent institutions, we wouldn't be able to dictate to. But I want to be absolutely clear: we are working with representatives of the HEsector to include them in this work. And I have received, not assurances, but from discussions that I've had with Universities Wales and vice-chancellors, they are very keen to be kept apprised of these approaches,because they may well wish to implement something similar within their own institutions.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. I've got a couple of supplementaries now; firstly, from Suzy Davies, and then I'm going to go to SiânGwenllian. Suzy. No, we can't hear Suzy. Suzy? No. I'll go to Siân, then, and then I'll come back to Suzy. Siân.Hefin David AM: Chair, I don't think my microphone is muted.Sian Gwenllian AM: Okay. I'll move on to myquestion to Kirsty Williams. Now, it is clear that any decisions that need to be taken on reopening schools would have to be made in the context of all of the other issues that the Welsh Government has to take intoaccount. And it is entirely clear that the approach of Government towards testing hasn't been sufficiently developed for us to even start to think about removing restrictions. So, wouldn't it be dangerous, if truth be told,to start to discuss reopening schools when we haven't had the necessary testing in place for the majority of the population? And doesn't it convey a mixed message that we're starting to relax some of these restrictionswhen, in reality, the restrictions are still in place and still need to be in place robustly?Kirsty Williams AM: First of all, thank you very much, Siân, for that important question. Can I be absolutely clear, and I thought Ihad been pretty clear in answering Hefin David, that we are not relaxing any of the restrictions with regard to education? As I said to Hefin, it is not imminent that we would see a further phase in the next stage ofeducation here in Wales. What I have done today is to provide clarity on the nature of the principles that I would use when coming to any discussion. It is the responsibility of me, as the Minister, and indeed of the widerGovernment, to begin to think about planning for the future. But I have been absolutely clear: we are not moving to an imminent change in how education is operating at the moment. And I'm also very, very clear thatshould we be given the opportunity to see more children in our schools, I will only do that when it is safe for me to do so, when I've been advised by the CMO that I am able to do that, and we have given sufficient timeand planning to the sector to respond. It is not going to be easy, and we will need to give them, as a sector, time to be able to address. But if I have not been clear enough, let me say it again: we are not relaxing anyissues around schools at present, nor is that imminent.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Suzy, I think we can try going to you again now.Suzy Davies AM: Thank you. Minister, in your consideration of introducing a phasedreturn to school, in due course, have you taken into consideration how things like school absences are going to be managed? Because, regardless of the amount of good work you do on messaging, there will still besome families that don't realise that going back to school is for their particular family. Will there be a relaxation of, effectively, what we would call truancy rules? Or is that something that schools will be getting guidanceon much up-front?Kirsty Williams AM: Thank you, Suzy. As I said in my statement earlier today, returning to school will not be a return to normal, and in recognition of this, I've already made it clear that I will seek, inall opportunities, to reduce the burdens on school. That includes various data collection, the suspension of performance measures and removing the requirement to undertake literacy and numeracy testing, and, clearly,school attendance will want to be an important factor of that.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Thank you. I'm keen to go on now to talk about the current situation as being faced by our children and young people in schoolswith some questions from Siân Gwenllian. Siân.Sian Gwenllian AM: Since yesterday, the Welsh Government has started publishing data on the number of schools that are open, the number of children attending thoseschools, and the number of staff involved, and they have been making this information available as per capita of the population. On average, I think it's 1 per cent of the children of Wales that actually attend theselocations, and some 5 per cent of the staff. So, can you analyse those figures a little further? Can you tell us how many children, according to this data, are children of key workers, and how many are vulnerablechildren?Kirsty Williams AM: Thank you very much, Siân. As you quite rightly say, on average, we have 518 school hubs open each day, with up to 4,200 children attending. We have seen an increase in the number ofattendances since the start of what would have been the traditional summer term. We have approximately 5.6 per cent of the teaching population working in those hubs, and at present, 85 per cent of the children whoare attending are the children of key workers, the remainder being vulnerable children. So, we are now averaging 600 vulnerable children per day. These are small numbers, but we have seen an increase in thosenumbers since the start of what would have been the traditional summer term.Sian Gwenllian AM: Okay. I'm sure we'll return to that point a little later on. How much confidence do you therefore have that thearrangements are effective in terms of the safety of staff and children at these locations?Kirsty Williams AM: Thank you once again for that. The smooth operation of the hubs, with regard to health and safety, is, ofcourse, of paramount importance. What we have seen since schools closed for traditional statutory purposes and moving to their repurposed function—we have seen a change of pattern over time. So, following myannouncement on, I believe, 18 March, the week after, we saw a large number of settings open and operating. As local authorities have been able to understand the demand for those places—from critical workers andvulnerable children—we have seen more local authorities move to a hub model, and we have been able to publish guidance to local authorities on how issues around safe working in those hubs should be followed, andwe've been able to give guidance in that regard. Local authorities are asked by us to report any incidents where they are concerned about operation issues on the ground.Sian Gwenllian AM: As I mentioned earlier,testing is crucially important in dealing with this crisis. So, how many school staff have been tested for COVID because they may have experienced symptoms and so on? And how many of those have testedpositive?Kirsty Williams AM: My understanding from Public Health Wales is that 15 teachers have been tested for COVID-19, and I believe two of those results have come back as positive. Can I make it absolutely clear,the week before last, Welsh Government issued new guidance around who should be tested? I want to make it absolutely clear to those professionals working in our hubs, if they or a member of their family areexhibiting any of the symptoms, however mild, of COVID-19, they can and they should be tested.Sian Gwenllian AM: Okay. And the final question from me on this: how important is testing going to be in this nextphase, as you start to think about relaxing restrictions?Kirsty Williams AM: Obviously, the ability to be able to test, to trace and to quarantine will be critical to the next phase and will be a very, very important andsignificant building block in all aspects of the Government's work to respond to this pandemic.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Thank you, Minister, and thank you, Siân. We've got some questions now on the impact onparticular groups of children, from Dawn Bowden.Dawn Bowden AM: Thank you, Chair. Just following on from your answer to Siân Gwenllian earlier about the number of vulnerable children in school, what's being donespecifically to facilitate more of those children coming into a school setting or hub at the moment? I'm thinking about the 600 you've talked about, and I know, in one of my local authority areas of Merthyr, which is avery small authority, we're talking about the number of children identified as vulnerable running into thousands, not hundreds, and that's just in one authority. So, this is a particularly difficult issue to address, Iappreciate, but how are we going to get more of these children into the hubs?Kirsty Williams AM: Okay, Dawn. The first thing to say is that the issue of vulnerable children attending settings is one that is a challenge tonot just Wales, but also to my colleagues in Northern Ireland, Scotland and England. I'm pleased to say that we are working across Government departments—myself, obviously, and colleagues in education—withcolleagues in social services to have a cross-Government approach to these issues. I think the first thing to say is that these are complex messages, because the overriding public health message from our Governmenthas been to stay at home and children should be kept at home as much as possible, and to make sure that our hubs run smoothly, safely and effectively, we do need to limit the number of children who are attendingthose hubs. So, firstly, the fact that numbers are small is in some ways a success of our public health messages, because parents have been heeding those messages, but, of course, all of us will have concerns for somechildren who remain at home. So, I'm pleased to say that we have seen a doubling in the last week of the number of children. So, although numbers are small, they have doubled over the course of the last week. We'reworking with local authorities and they have assured us that children and young people with a social worker have been risk assessed on a multi-agency basis and are receiving support in a number of ways, and thatincludes having conversations about some of those children attending the hubs. They're also looking to support in other ways. Of course, some of our children who would be classed as vulnerable—and our definition of'vulnerable' is one that is shared between the systems in England and Wales—could be children with a statement of special educational needs. For some of those children who, perhaps, have very intense health needs,actually, staying at home is the appropriate thing for that child and that family to do, and we're looking to support families, and local authorities and local education systems are looking to support families, in a numberof ways. We also know that just because you don't have a social worker or a statement of special educational needs does not mean that a child may not be vulnerable, and schools are very aware of the needs of thosechildren and have been carrying out regular telephone check-ins where they can—if the age of the child is appropriate—just to keep in touch with those families and those individual children. But we will continue to workacross Government to encourage, where it is appropriate, children to attend settings, and, if it is not appropriate for children to be in a setting, that there is contact with those children and young people to ensure thatthey remain, and their families remain, supported.Dawn Bowden AM: Thank you, Minister. It's encouraging to hear you talk about the ongoing safeguarding of children that are at home and I assume, within that,appropriate referral mechanisms are still in place if teachers or anybody has any particular concern about a child. Similarly, with special educational needs, whereas some of those children benefit clearly from aone-to-one provision in a school, and they may not respond as well to remote working, or remote contact, with an SEN advisor, are you considering in any way any relaxation of the lockdown rule in particular for thosechildren in terms of them being able to access the support that they need for their particular educational needs?Kirsty Williams AM: Well, first of all, Dawn, you're absolutely right: my expectation is that schools shouldremain in contact with children and continue to identify vulnerable children, and schools should continue to refer children to children's services if they have any concerns, and that would also, of course, be the case for"}
{"doc_id":"doc_115","qid":"","text":"Lynne Neagle AM: Good morning, everyone, and welcome to this morning's Children, Young People and Education Committee. We've received no apologies for absence. Can I ask Members who are present if they wishto declare any interests? Okay, thank you. Item 2 this morning is our final evidence session for our inquiry into targeted funding to improve educational outcomes. I'm very pleased to welcome Kirsty Williams AM,Cabinet Secretary for Education; Steve Davies, director of the education directorate; and Ruth Conway, deputy director, support for learners division. Welcome to all of you, and thank you for your attendance and alsofor the paper that you've provided in advance. If you're happy, we'll go straight into questions, and the first questions are from Llyr Gruffydd.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Bore da. I just want to start by asking some questionsaround the targeting of the pupil development grant because, clearly, we've had a lot of evidence around this apparent blurring of eligibility to an extent. I'm just wondering how comfortable you are that the money isbeing targeted appropriately because, clearly, it's being targeted more widely than just those eligible for free school meals, from some of the evidence we've had, but also that it seems to be predominantly focused onlow-attaining frees—pupils who are eligible for free school meals.Kirsty Williams AM: Thank you, Llyr. I think it's important to be absolutely clear that when it comes to individual interventions, those individualinterventions should only be targeted at those children who are eligible for free school meals. But in some cases, schools may use their PDG funding to provide a universal intervention, but we would want to—inchallenge advisers' discussions in schools—we'd want to have evidence that that universal intervention would have a disproportionate effect on the outcomes for children on free school meals. So, for instance, if I giveyou an example in your own region, Llyr: at Brynteg County Primary School in Wrexham, if you look at that primary school in Wrexham, their results for free-school-meal children at the end of their primary schoolperiod in school are equivalent to their non-free-school-meal counterparts. So, there is no differentiation in those results. One of the things that they've used their PDG for is to really focus on the concept of growthmindset in school. So, that's a universal thing that they've trained all the teachers in, but what we know is that that has a disproportionate effect on those children who are on free school meals. So, if you're familiarwith the concept of a growth mindset, it's about really challenging learners to think that, 'I can do things. If sometimes I fail, I pick myself up, I'm more resilient.' Now, that has been, as I said, trained to all the teachersin the school—it's an ethos for the whole school—but we have seen that the impact on the free-school-meal children has been even greater, and now they're at the same level. So, that's the important distinction.Individual intervention per child has to be targeted at those children who are eligible for free school meals, but sometimes a school will employ a whole-school approach to train their staff, for instance, and that, then,has to demonstrate it has a disproportionate effect on free school meals. So, growth mindset; it may be attachment disorder training for staff, for instance, where we know it's of benefit to everybody, but will haveparticular benefits for that cohort of students. With regard to more able and talented, you know, Llyr, that this is an area of concern for me, generally, within the Welsh education system; that we've not been particularlygood at identifying, supporting and driving attainment for those children. I'm absolutely clear that PDG needs to be used for those children who are eligible to drive potential, whatever the potential of that child is,including more able and talented. And again, I'll give you an example that has been seen as good practice in Pembrokeshire: a window on the world bus, again paid for by schools. I don't know if you're aware of it.LlyrGruffydd AM: We've heard about that.Kirsty Williams AM: Oh, you've heard about it; well, it's a really good example the window on the world. And, again, that's very much targeted at raising aspirations and givingchildren who are more able and talented, who are eligible for PDG, those experiences, and to really push them. So, yes, I'm absolutely clear that PDG shouldn't just be seen to be getting individuals to the average. Forthose children who are more able and talented, it should be used to support them—Llyr Gruffydd AM: And we all share those aspirations, I'm sure, and you pointed to examples of good practice, but of course, it's notuniversal, is it, so what I'm asking is: do you think that the guidance is sufficient as it is? Do you think that there's a great enough awareness of how the PDG should be used at the coalface? And also, are you confidentthat consortia and others have the measures in place to be able to demonstrate that it is being used properly?Kirsty Williams AM: I think, if we look at what Estyn has said about PDG, it does actually recognise that thePDG is being used to push more able and talented children, but as always with the system, Llyr, it's whether we can be sure that that is strategic and that it's happening across all of our schools. So, you're—LlyrGruffydd AM: But not just in relation to more able and talented, I'm referring to the eligibility and the targeting.Kirsty Williams AM: Oh, the eligibility. You'll be aware that, on the advice of Sir Alasdair, we haveemployed and appointed new PDG regional advisers, and I think their role is going to be absolutely crucial in spreading that good practice across the region, whether that's use of PDG for more able and talented, orensuring that PDG is used in the appropriate way. So, that's there to provide strategic overall advice. And obviously, we have been very clear with regional challenge advisers, in the relationship and the conversationsthey're having with individual schools, that they're really challenging their schools about the use of PDG, not just in terms of targeting, but the programmes, what the money is being spent on, whether there is anevidence base for that and whether we are clear on impact. So, I think the new regional advisers are going to be crucial in enabling us to ensure more consistent practice across the regions.Llyr Gruffydd AM: So, are youcontent that eligibility for free school meals is the best measure, really, of identifying which pupils to target?Kirsty Williams AM: Llyr, in the absence of anything better. I'll be the first person to say that maybe it's not asabsolutely focused, but in the absence of anything different to identify a proxy for need, I think it's probably the best that we've got at present. And we will continue to have discussions with local government aboutwhether there are different ways. We have to be mindful. Some of the policy levers in this area are out of my hands, so if we look at the roll-out of universal credit, for instance, we've got officials working very hard atthe moment to try and understand what universal credit is going to mean and where we are going to be able to identify relative need, going forward. We haven't had any additional resource as a result of this, but we'revery mindful that, potentially, this has an impact, going forward. And, officials are working all of the time, I must say, in conjunction with the department in England, to understand their thinking in this area so that weare in a position to make some decisions about what a notional eligibility for free school meals will look like going forward, but before I make any decisions, I want to assure everybody that there will be a full publicconsultation on that.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Okay. Finally for now, on this issue of once a year, in January, if you're eligible for free school meals, then you're in that group for that year. We've had some quite strong evidenceabout how difficult that makes longer term planning for a number of schools and we've also been pointed in the direction of what's happened in England with the Ever 6, and I'm just wondering whether you're giving anythought to maybe changing that a little bit.Kirsty Williams AM: Well, we're certainly giving thought to flexibility. In conversations with Alasdair, who is our independent adviser on this agenda, and individual schools,we're actively giving thought to greater flexibility and maybe longer term projections, so that schools know, for a number of years ahead, what their allocation will be. There are advantages to that system, because youcould give that flexibility, you could give that long-term approach, but then, how do you make that responsive if a school suddenly has more children? We do know that, actually, the number of free-school-meal pupils isdropping. But there can be changes, you know, regional working in areas of north Wales in tourism, or maybe in other areas at Christmas time, parents are able to get a period of work. So, how can we create a moreflexible system? We're actively looking at that at the moment. I wouldn't use it as an Ever 6 concept, but as an 'Ever 2' concept. We have looked at Ever 6, and I'm going to be absolutely blunt with you: to introduce anEver 6 concept for Wales would mean in the region of identifying an additional £40 million. I'm going to be absolutely straight and blunt with you: we're not in a position at the moment to be able to identify an additional£40 million to introduce an Ever 6. But issues around flexibility, certainly, are actively under consideration. In fact, we'll be having a discussion later on today about decisions, going forward, for the next two years.LlyrGruffydd AM: Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Darren on this.Darren Millar AM: It's just a very brief point in response to the £40 million price ticket that you just put on that. That's, of course, assuming that you maintainthe current level of PDG, yes? So, if you reduced the level of PDG slightly, but made it available to more individuals, if you like, via allocating it in a different way, then that £40 million price ticket wouldn't be there,would it?Kirsty Williams AM: I was asked a question about had I ever considered an Ever 6. We have looked at that, we've priced that up. I have to make decisions in the envelope of resources that are available to me.We could, indeed, change the way in which we allocate PDG money, but we have to do it within the envelope that is available to me, over £90 million. That's a significant level of investment, but, of course, as always,Darren, we could cut the amount per pupil, but that might have quite challenging swings in allocations. What we have done—because what I am clear on is that there was evidence to suggest that in the secondarysector, a great deal of PDG was being focused on years 10 and 11, especially year 11, in catch-up provision, and you'll be aware, because we've said this in evidence to the committee in the papers, we've set achallenge to secondary schools to say, 'Actually, the majority of your PDG allocation has to be used in key stage 3.' Now, we have to balance the needs, the moral hazard of turning round to children in years 10 and 11and saying, 'We're not going to provide catch-up opportunities for you,' because, clearly, those children need that support. But the evidence and the advice that we're receiving is: actually, strong focus on early years,primary and key stage 3, if we get that right, should negate the need for spending money on catch-up at years 10 and 11. That's why we, in our advice to local authorities and schools, say that we want to see evidencethat they're spending this money earlier on in a child's career, rather than just a scramble at year 11 to say, 'Right, we've got to get you through your exams.'Darren Millar AM: Okay, but have you actively considered,then, reducing the level you have?Kirsty Williams AM: We've—Ruth Conway: Sorry—I was just going to say that one of the things is looking at the scope of the definition, and I think it's about being more flexible withthe definition, rather than reducing the amount per head.Darren Millar AM: Okay. Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. If we can go on, then, to talk about some of the practical uses of the PDG, you write in yourwritten paper that 'the majority of schools are making well thought out and appropriate decisions' on how to use it. But Estyn reported that only two thirds of primary and secondary schools make effective use of thePDG. Given that we've had it now for six years, would you not have expected there to be a higher level of schools actually making good use of that funding?Kirsty Williams AM: Well, to flip it on its head, the vastmajority of schools, as identified by Estyn, are using this money to good effect. So, that's the way I like to see it—that the vast majority of schools are doing well. What Estyn has also indicated is the intrinsic link hereto leadership within individual schools, and as you'll be aware, leadership, improving capacity in leadership and developing leadership talent in the Welsh education system is a key priority for me in our national mission.Of course, that's being developed in a different work stream. I think what's fair to say is that the use of PDG is evolving over time. I think we are seeing, increasingly, more and more schools understanding how best todeploy that money for best effect for students. So, if we're honest, when PDG first started, I think, in some schools it was spent on investing in tracking of children, because they'd never thought about tracking thesechildren, they didn't have systems in place to look at the performance of these children, and to have a system in place. So we've moved now from spending money on the infrastructure around support for FSM childreninto actual inputs in terms of teaching and learning. We're also seeing from Estyn that, actually, in terms of money following the evidence of what we know works, Estyn says that PDG is probably the best example ofschools following tried and tested and evidence-based interventions to deploy the money. But clearly we want all of this money to be deployed as well as it can be, and again we come back to the decision I've made toappoint regional PDG advisers so that we can get that better consistency of approach. We are, in the discussions that I have with the regional consortia about how they challenge individual schools on usage, looking forvery clear evidence of schools using the Sutton Trust toolkit, and we could have a discussion about whether that's the right thing, because that's on my mind too. But we want to see schools demonstrating theirevidence base, and if they're not, if a school isn't doing that, okay, so demonstrate to us why you've made those decisions and, crucially, what are you doing as the school to judge whether that decision is actuallymaking a difference for your individual pupils. So, if you're moving away from tried and tested interventions, what we know works, if you're doing something different with your money, okay, you need to justify that andyou need to explain how you're going to demonstrate impact. But I think what we're seeing is increasing good practice in this area as the PDG develops and as our understanding of our school-to-school working in ourself-improving school system also develops. I think we're seeing better usage of the money year on year.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Llyr on this.Llyr Gruffydd AM: You mentioned some schools will be moving fromthe tried-and-tested interventions, really, and I'm just wondering to what extent that evolution of use of PDG is being driven by cuts to core funding.Kirsty Williams AM: No, I don't think it's being driven by cuts to corefunding. I think there has been—. One of the biggest impacts of PDG has not been—well, I suppose it is the money in itself, because the money has concentrated the minds, hasn't it? So, one of the most importantthings that PDG has done is highlight the importance of this agenda within schools, and really raise this up in the thinking of leadership and senior management teams in our schools, and has driven a focus on scrutinyand accountability in the systems that are working with our schools. I think the changing use of PDG reflects the journeys that schools have been on, some of them from a very low base where this was not a priority forthem, to better understanding, and as research and as intelligence grows over time in this area, both in Wales and outside of Wales, schools are increasingly learning to use that evidence to tailor approaches in theirschools.Llyr Gruffydd AM: So you wouldn't accept at all that some of this money's being used to paper over some funding cracks from elsewhere. Because the unions and some others have told us that, whether we likeit or not, there is some of that going on.Kirsty Williams AM: As I said, Llyr, we're very clear about the usage that this money can be spent on in terms of individuals or universal application within schools, and that formsan important part of the checks and balances that we have in our system. Can we continue to improve, and ensure that more and more of our schools are employing best practice? Yes, we can, and as I've said, we'vetaken steps to put in place the infrastructure to support that.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Mark's questions are next.Mark Reckless AM: Cabinet Secretary, how would you assess the impact of PDG on attendance andhopefully subsequent engagement with education from children who have free school meals?Kirsty Williams AM: I think what's important to note is that, as Estyn have themselves said, over the period of the lastinspection report, we have seen improvements in attendance, but I do think we need to, again, look at how PDG can support this particular agenda. And as always in the Welsh education system, there are someexcellent examples of how schools use the money to address this. Ysgol y Preseli in Pembrokeshire is a very good example of how they've deployed their money. Forgive me; I can't off the top of my head remember thename of the primary school I visited, again in north Wales, where the school has proactively used this money, and they actually send teaching assistants out of school in the morning before the start of the school day,and they actually have a walking bus. They call at homes for children, and they walk the children to the breakfast club. So, they're proactively going out into the community and making sure that those children are inthe classrooms, because the teacher said, 'We recognised we had a problem with attendance. We tried a variety of means of improving that, but in the end we have taken this quite bold step—we actually send the staffout and they create that walking bus, and they walk the children into school'. They say that they know that, for some of those children, because of the difficult circumstances they and their families are living in, theyprobably wouldn't be in school if it wasn't for that proactive approach. So, we're looking again at what more we can do to support this particular agenda in terms of improving attendance, because although, again, thereare examples of good practice, there is still a gap between the attendance of free-school-meal pupils and non-free-school-meal pupils. And, of course, we can have the best curriculum in the world with reallyhigh-quality teaching, but unless the children are in the classes then we're not going to make the difference for them. Whilst that differential exists, then it's going to be hard to close the attainment gap for thosechildren.Mark Reckless AM: I was actually quite shocked just reading in advance of this meeting that the proportion attending 95 per cent or more, who have pretty full attendance, was only 35 per cent forfree-school-meal children at level 4, compared to 60 per cent for non-free-school-meal pupils. It still is an extraordinary difference. My colleague here showed me, I think, last week, a graph showing the link betweenattendance and attainment, in particular. When people were absent, a lot of the—. As I'm sure you're aware, there's a huge connection. What more can PDG do to deal with it? In the example you give I can see how aschool with an awful lot of free-school-meal children could do that, but a lot of the free-school-meal children are actually in schools that don't have that high a proportion of free school meals, where it would be muchmore challenging to bring in that type of initiative.Kirsty Williams AM: Yes, indeed, and I think it gets more challenging the older the children get. I think it's more difficult to find interventions that are successful higherup, so key stage 4. So, you can do a walking bus with little ones, can't you, but I don't suppose your average 15 or 16-year-old is going to take very kindly to that. So, you do need a different approach to that. Butagain, we see in Ysgol y Preseli the employment of staff to directly work with families of older children to reinforce the messages around, as you quite rightly say, the linkage between attendance and attainment, andreally work with individual families to understand the barriers to attendance: what's going on in the family that is preventing that child from going to school, and what more can the school do to address those situations."}
{"doc_id":"doc_116","qid":"","text":"Grad C: Hmm . Testing channel two .Grad E: Two , two . Grad C: Two .Grad E: Two . Oh .Grad D: Hello ?Grad B: Hmm ? Yeah Thank You . OK Well , so Ralf and Tilman are here .Professor F: OK . Great . Great .Grad B:Made it safely .Professor F: So the {disfmarker} what w we h have been doing i they would like us all to read these digits . But we don't all read them but a couple people read them .PhD A: OK .Professor F: Uh , wannagive them all with German accents today or {disfmarker} ?Grad B: Sure .Professor F: OK .Grad B: OK and the way you do it is you just read the numbers not as uh each single , so just like I do it .PhD A: Mm - hmm.Grad B: OK . First you read the transcript number . Turn .Grad D: OK , uh {disfmarker} What 's {disfmarker}Professor F: OK . Let 's be done with this .PhD A: OK .Professor F: OK . this is Ami , who {disfmarker} Andthis is Tilman and Ralf .PhD A: Hi . Uh - huh . Nice to meet you .Grad D: Hi .Professor F: Hi . OK . So we 're gonna try to finish by five so people who want to can go hear Nancy Chang 's talk , uh downstairs .PhD A:Hmm .Professor F: And you guys are g giving talks on tomorrow and Wednesday lunch times ,PhD A: Yes .Grad D: Mmm .Professor F: right ? That 's great . OK so , do y do you know what we 're gonna do ?Grad B: Ithought two things uh we 'll introduce ourselves and what we do . And um we already talked with Andreas , Thilo and David and some lines of code were already written today and almost tested and just gonna say wehave um again the recognizer to parser thing where we 're working on and that should be no problem and then that can be sort of developed uh as needed when we get {disfmarker} enter the tourism domain . em wehave talked this morning with the {disfmarker} with Tilman about the generator .PhD A: SGrad B: and um There one of our diligent workers has to sort of volunteer to look over Tilman 's shoulder while he is changingthe grammars to EnglishPhD A: Mm - hmm .Grad B: because w we have {disfmarker} we face two ways . Either we do a syllable concatenating um grammar for the English generation which is sort of starting fromscratch and doing it the easy way , or we simply adopt the ah um more in - depth um style that is implemented in the German system and um are then able not only to produce strings but also the syntactic parse uhnot parse not the syntactic tree that is underneath in the syntactic structure which is the way we decided we were gonna go because A , it 's easier in the beginningPhD A: Mm - hmm .Grad B: and um it does requiresome {disfmarker} some knowledge of {disfmarker} of those grammars and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and some ling linguistic background . But um it shouldn't be a problem for anyone .Professor F: OK So Thatsounds good . Johno , are you gonna have some time t to do that uh w with these guys ?Grad E: Sure .Professor F: cuz y you 're the grammar maven .Grad E: OK .Professor F: I mean it makes sense ,Grad E: Yeah.Professor F: doesn't it ? Yeah Good . OK . So , I think that 's probably the {disfmarker} the right way to do that . And an Yeah , so I {disfmarker} I actually wanna f to find out about it too , but I may not have time toget in .Grad B: the {disfmarker} the ultimate goal is that before they leave we {disfmarker} we can run through the entire system input through output on at least one or two sample things . And um and by virtue ofdoing that then in this case Johno will have acquired the knowledge of how to extend it . Ad infinitum . When needed , if needed , when wanted and so forth .Professor F: OK that sounds great .Grad B: And um also umRalf has hooked up with David and you 're gonna continue either all through tonight or tomorrow on whatever to get the er parser interface working .Grad D: Mmm .Grad B: They are thinning out and thickening outlattices and doing this kind of stuff to see what works best .Grad D: Mmm , yep .Professor F: Great . So , you guys enjoy your weekend ?PhD A: Yes , very much so .Grad D: Yeah , very muchProfessor F: OK , before{disfmarker} before you got put to work ?Grad D: YeahProfessor F: Great . OK , so that 's {disfmarker} Sort of one branch is to get us caught up on what 's going on . Also of course it would be really nice to know whatthe plans are , in addition to what 's sort of already in code .PhD A: Yes .Professor F: and we can d I dunno w w was there uh a time when we were set up to do that ? It probably will work better if we do it later in theweek , after {pause} we actually understand uh better what 's going on .PhD A: Yes .Grad D: Hmm .PhD A: Yeah .Professor F: So when do you guys leave ?PhD A: Um we 're here through Sunday ,Grad D: OhPhD A: soAll through Friday would be fine .Professor F: Oh , OK , so {disfmarker} OK , So {disfmarker} so anyt we 'll find a time later in the week to uh get together and talk about {pause} your understanding of what SmartKomplans are .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor F: and how we can change them .PhD A: Yes . Sure .Professor F: Uh ,Grad B: Should we already set a date for that ? Might be beneficial while we 're all here .Professor F: OK ?um What {disfmarker} what does not work for me is Thursday afternoon . I can do earlier in the day on Thursday , or {pause} um {pause} most of the time on Friday , not all .Grad B: Thursday morning sounds fine?Professor F: Wha - but , Johno ,PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor F: what are your constraints ?Grad E: um Thursday afternoon doesn't work for me , but {disfmarker}Grad B: Neither does Thursday morning , no ?Grad E:Uh Thursday morning should be fine .PhD A: OK .Professor F: Eleven ? Eleven on Thursday ?Grad E: I was just thinking I w I will {pause} have {pause} leavened by eleven .Professor F: Right . Right . This is then out ofdeference to our non - morning people .PhD A: Mm - hmm . OK . So at eleven ?Grad D: Hmm .PhD A: Thursday around eleven ? OK .Professor F: Yeah . And actually we can invite um Andreas as well .Grad B: Uh he willbe in Washington , though .Professor F: Oh that 's true . He 's off {disfmarker} off on his trip already .Grad B: but um David is here and he 's actually knows everything about the SmartKom recognizer .Professor F:Thilo . OK well yeah maybe we 'll see if David could make it . That would be good .Grad B: OK so facing to {disfmarker} to what we 've sort of been doing here um well for one thing we 're also using this room to collectdata .PhD A: Yeah obviously .Grad B: um um Not this type of data ,PhD A: Oh , OK .Grad B: no not meeting data but sort of {disfmarker} sort ah our version of a wizard experiment such not like the ones in Munich butpretty close to it .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Grad B: The major difference to the Munich ones is that we do it via the telephonePhD A: OK .Grad B: even though all the recording is done here and so it 's a {disfmarker} sort of acomputer call system that gives you tourist informationPhD A: Mm - hmm .Grad B: tells you how to get places . And it breaks halfway through the experiment and a human operator comes on . and part of that is sort oftrying to find out whether people change their linguistic verbal behavior when first thinking they speak to a machine and then to a human .PhD A: Yeah .Grad B: and we 're setting it up so that we can {disfmarker} wehope to implant certain intentions in people . For example um we have first looked at a simple sentence that \" How do I get to the Powder - Tower ? \" OK so you have the {disfmarker} castle of HeidelbergPhD A: OK.Grad B: and there is a tower and it 's called Powder - Tower .PhD A: Oh , OK . Yeah .Grad B: and um so What will you parse out of that sentence ? Probably something that we specified in M - three - L , that is @ @{comment} \" action go to whatever domain , object whatever Powder - Tower \" .Grad D: Mmm .Grad B: And maybe some model will tell us , some GPS module , in the mobile scenario where the person is at themoment . And um we 've sort of gone through that once before in the Deep Mail project and we noticed that first of all what are {disfmarker} I should 've brought some slides , but what our {disfmarker} So here 's thetower . Think of this as a two - dimensional representation of the tower . And our system led people here , to a point where they were facing a wall in front of the tower . There is no entrance there , but it just happensto be the closest point of the road network to the geometric center Because that 's how the algorithm works . So we took out that part of the road network as a hack and then it found actually the way to the entrance .which was now the closest point of the road network toPhD A: Yeah .Grad B: OK , geometric center . But what we actually observed in Heidelberg is that most people when they want to go there they actually don't wantto enter , because it 's not really interesting . They wanna go to a completely different point where they can look at it and take a picture .PhD A: Oh , OK .Grad D: Hmm .PhD A: Yeah .Grad B: And so what uh uh a s yous let 's say a simple parse from a s from an utterance won't really give us is what the person actually wants . Does he wanna go there to see it ? Does he wanna go there now ? Later ? How does the person wanna gothere ? Is that person more likely to want to walk there ? Walk a scenic route ? and so forth . There are all kinds of decisions that we have identified in terms of getting to places and in terms of finding information aboutthings . And we are constructing {disfmarker} and then we 've identified more or less the extra - linguistic parameters that may f play a role . Information related to the user and information related to the situation .And we also want to look closely on the linguistic information that what we can get from the utterance . That 's part of why we implant these intentions in the data collection to see whether people actually phrase thingsdifferently whether they want to enter in order to buy something or whether they just wanna go there to look at it . And um so the idea is to construct uh um suitable interfaces and a belief - net for a module thatactually tries to guess what the underlying intention {pause} was . And then enrich or augment the M - three - L structures with what it thought what more it sort of got out of that utterance . So if it can make a goodsuggestion , \" Hey ! \" you know , \" that person doesn't wanna enter . That person just wants to take a picture , \" cuz he just bought film , or \" that person wants to enter because he discussed the admission fee before \". Or \" that person wants to enter because he wants to buy something and that you usually do inside of buildings \" and so forth . These ah these types of uh these bits of additional information are going to be embeddedinto the M - three - L structure in an {disfmarker} sort of subfield that we have reserved . And if the action planner does something with it , great . If not you know , then that 's also something um that we can't really{disfmarker} at least we {comment} want to offer the extra information . We don't really {disfmarker} um we 're not too worried .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Grad D: Hmm .Grad B: I mean {disfmarker} t s Ultimately if youhave {disfmarker} if you can offer that information , somebody 's gonna s do something with it sooner or later . That 's sort of part of our belief .Grad E: What was he saying ?Grad B: Um , for example , right now Iknow the GIS from email is not able to calculate these viewpoints . So that 's a functionality that doesn't exist yet to do that dynamically ,PhD A: Mm - hmm .Grad B: but if we can offer it that distinction , maybesomebody will go ahead and implement it . Surely nobody 's gonna go ahead and implement it if it 's never gonna be used , so . What have I forgotten about ? Oh yeah , how we do it ,Professor F: Well th uhGrad B:yeah that 's theProfessor F: No no . It 's a good time to pause . I s I see {pause} questions on peoples ' faces , so why don't {disfmarker}PhD A: OhProfessor F: let 's {disfmarker} let 's {disfmarker} Let 's hear{disfmarker}PhD A: Well the obvious one would be if {disfmarker} if you envision this as a module within SmartKom , where exactly would that Sit ? That 's the dGrad B: um {disfmarker} so far I 've thought of it assort of adding it onto the modeler knowledge module .PhD A: OK , yeah .Grad B: So this is one that already adds additional information to theGrad D: Hmm .PhD A: Makes perfect sense . Yes .Grad D: Hmm , ah .GradB: but it could sit anywhere in the attention - recognition I mean basically this is what attention - recognition literally sort of can {disfmarker}PhD A: Well it 's supposed to do . YeahGrad D: Mmm .Professor F: That 'swhat it should do .PhD A: Yeah .Professor F: Right ,PhD A: Yeah .Professor F: yeah .Grad D: Huh .Grad B: Yeah .PhD A: Well f from my understanding of what the people at Phillips were originally trying to do doesn'tseem to quite fit into SmartKom currently so what they 're really doing right now is only selecting among the alternatives , the hypotheses that they 're given enriched by the domain knowledge and the um discoursemodeler and so on .Grad B: Yeah .PhD A: So if {disfmarker} if this is additional information that could be merged in by them .Grad B: Yeah .PhD A: And then it would be available to action planning and {disfmarker}and others .Grad B: Yeah . the {disfmarker}Professor F: let 's {disfmarker} let 's That w OK that was one question . Is there other {disfmarker} other things that cuz {pause} we wanna not Pa - pass over any {pause}you know , questions or concerns that you have .PhD A: Well there 're {disfmarker} there 're two levels of {disfmarker} of giving an answer and I guess on both levels I don't have any um further questions .Grad D:Mmm . Mmm .PhD A: uh the {disfmarker} the two levels will be as far as I 'm concerned as {pause} uh standing here for the generation moduleGrad D: Mmm .PhD A: and the other is {disfmarker} is my understandingof what SmartKom uh is supposed to beProfessor F: Right .PhD A: and I {disfmarker} I think that fits in perfectlyProfessor F: So {disfmarker} well , let me {disfmarker} Let me s {pause} expand on that a little bit fromthe point of view of the generation .Grad D: Hmm .PhD A: Yeah .Professor F: So the idea is that we 've actually got this all laid out an and we could show it to you ig um Robert didn't bring it today but there 's a{disfmarker} a belief - net which is {disfmarker} There 's a first cut at a belief - net that {disfmarker} that doesn't {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} isn't fully uh instantiated , and in particular some of the {disfmarker} thecombination rules and ways of getting the {disfmarker} the conditional probabilities aren't there . But we believe that we have laid out the fundamental decisions in this little spacePhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor F: andthe things that influence them . So one of the decisions is what we call this AVE thing . Do you want to um access , view or enter a thing .Grad D: Hmm .Professor F: So that 's a a discrete decision .PhD A: Mm - hmm.Professor F: There are only three possibilities and the uh {disfmarker} what one would like is for this uh , knowledge modeling module to add which of those it is and give it to the planner .PhD A: Mm - hmm .ProfessorF: But , uh th the current design suggests that if it seems to be an important decision and if the belief - net is equivocal so that it doesn't say that one of these is much more probable than the other , then an option is togo back and ask for the information you want .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor F: Alright ? Now there are two ways one can go {disfmarker} a imagine doing that . For the debugging we 'll probably just have a{disfmarker} a drop - down menu and the {disfmarker} while you 're debugging you will just {disfmarker} OK . But for a full system , then one might very well formulate a query ,PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor F: give itto the dialogue planner and say this , you know ar are you know you {disfmarker} are you planning to enter ? Or whatever it {disfmarker} whatever that might be . So that 's {disfmarker} under that model then ,There would be a {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} um a loop in which this thing would formulate a query ,PhD A: Yes .Professor F: presumably give it to you . That would get expressed and then hopefully you know , you'd get an answer {pause} back .PhD A: Yep .Professor F: And that would of course {disfmarker} the answer would have to be parsed .Grad D: Mmm . Yep .Professor F: right and {disfmarker}PhD A: Yes .Professor F:OK so , {pause} th {pause} that uh , We probably won't do this early on , because the current focus is more on the decision making and stuff like that .PhD A: Yep .Professor F: But While we 're on the subject I justwanted to give you a sort of head 's up that it could be that some months from now we said \" OK we 're now ready to try to close that loop \" in terms of querying about some of these decisions .PhD A: Mm - hmm . Mm- hmm .Grad D: Hmm .PhD A: Yep . So {disfmarker} my suggestion then is that you um look into the currently ongoing discussion about how the action plans are supposed to look like . And they 're currently umAgreeing or {disfmarker} or in the process of agreeing on an X M L - ification of um something like a state - transition network of how dialogues would proceed . and {disfmarker} The {disfmarker} these um transitionnetworks uh will be what the action planner interprets in a sense .Professor F: Hmm . D did you know this Robert ?Grad B: uh Michael is doing that , right ?PhD A: Well uh Marcus Lerkult is actually implementing thatstuff and Marcus and Michael together are um leading the discussion there , yeah .Grad B: OK .Professor F: So we ha we have to get in on that .PhD A: Yep .Grad B: Mm - hmm .Grad D: Mmm .Professor F: because umpartly those are like X - schemas .PhD A: Definitely .Professor F: the transition diagrams .Grad B: Hmm .Professor F: And it may be that {disfmarker} that um we should early on make sure that they have the flexibilitythat we need .Grad B: Hmm . But they uh Have I understood this right ? They {disfmarker} they govern more or less the {disfmarker} the dialogue behavior or the action {disfmarker}PhD A: Mm - hmm .Grad B: It 'snot really what you do with the content of the dialogue but it 's So , I mean there is this {disfmarker} this {disfmarker} this nice interfGrad D: uh , No , it 's {disfmarker} it 's also a quantrant uh uh {disfmarker}GradB: i Is it {disfmarker}Professor F: So there 's ac so there {disfmarker} th the word \" action \" , OK , is {disfmarker} is what 's ambiguous here .Grad D: I think . Hmm .PhD A: Yes .Professor F: So , um one thing is there's an actual planner that tells the person in the tourist domain now ,PhD A: OK .Professor F: per tells the person how to go , \" First go here ,Grad D: Mm - hmm .Professor F: first go there uh , you know , take a bus \" ,whatever it is . So that 's that form of planning , and action , and a route planner and GIS , all sort of stuff . uh But I think that isn't what you mean .PhD A: No . No , in SmartKom terminology that 's um called afunction that 's modeled by a function modeler . And it 's th that 's completely um encapsulated from th the dialogue system . That 's simply a functionality that you give data as in a query and then you get back fromthat mmm , a functioning model um which might be a planner or a VCR or whatever . um some result and that 's then {disfmarker} then used .Professor F: Well , OK , so that 's what I thought . So action he action heremeans dia uh speech ac uh you know dialogue act .PhD A: Yeah , yeah . Yeah , in that {disfmarker} in that senseGrad B: Mmm .PhD A: yes , dialogue act ,Professor F: Yeah .PhD A: yeah .Professor F: Um , I think tha Ithink it 's not going to {disfmarker} I think that 's not going to be good enough . I I don what uh {disfmarker} what I meant by that . So I think the idea of having a , you know , transition diagram for the grammar ofconversations is a good idea .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor F: OK ? And I think that we do hav definitely have to get in on it and find out {disfmarker} OK . But I think that um when {disfmarker} so , when you get tothe tourist domain it 's not just an information retrieval system .PhD A: Mm - hmm . Clearly . Yes .Professor F: Right ? So this i this is where I think this {disfmarker} people are gonna have to think this through a bitmore carefully .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor F: So , if it 's only like in {disfmarker} in the {disfmarker} in the film and T V thing , OK , you can do this . And you just get information and give it to people . But whathappens when you actually get them moving and so forth and so onPhD A: Yep .Professor F: Uh , y y your {disfmarker} I d I think the notion of this as a self contained uh module you know th the functional module that{disfmarker} that interacts with {disfmarker} with where the tourism g stuff is going {comment} probably is too restrictive .PhD A: Yep .Professor F: Now I dunno how much people have thought ahead to the touristdomain in thisPhD A: Probably not enough , I mean an {disfmarker} another uh more basic point there is that the current um tasks and therefore th the concepts in this ac what 's called the action plan and what 's"}
{"doc_id":"doc_117","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Okay . Hello everyone . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Hi .User Interface: Hi .Marketing: Hi .Project Manager: Um how uh how we doing ?Industrial Designer: Yeah , good .ProjectManager: Uh first we going uh over the minutes of the last meeting , more or less .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Um in the last meeting uh the marketing manager had presented uh her method ofworking , meaning gathering i suggestions from everyone to see how she best could market uh this this product at the {disfmarker} within the budget uh that was given . Uh in general {vocalsound} the idea is that itshould be something that is not difficult to use . Um it's also an item that people lose a lot . So we should address that . And , of course , it should be something s s that is very simple to use . In addition to that to makeit sell , of course , uh the marketing manager w wishes that it be very attractive ,Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: or like she says put some sizzle into it in one way or another so that the people are buying itnow because , in particular with smaller items , that's a very important fact , 'cause um if they say , well , I go home and think about it , that won't work . Um also mentioned was it should be uh {disfmarker} it shouldhave a very short learning curve . And maybe it could be sold by using a slogan .Industrial Designer: Hmm .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Our technical manager has then said that she feels it should have achipMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: that has infra-red bits and it has an interface controls w interface that controls the chip . Therefore , messages uh will be controlled in the same manner . There should beextra features like lid buttons , maybe a beep . If too many buttons are pressed , mm uh uh child lock um and uh maybe a display clock so that people could um {disfmarker} you could see the time , you know , whatshow they want to watch . Also mentioned was uh maybe different shapes . So the components of the thing should be button , bulbs , infra infra-red bulbs , battery , chips , wires , and maybe some kind of a holder uhfor the for the uh item . Francino who is our umUser Interface: Interface designer .Project Manager: interface designer um uh has mentioned that the {disfmarker} that it , of course , should have an on-off button , andalso has mentioned an interesting feature that it should have maybe a channel lock . Particularly with maybe small children that they couldn't uh watch a channel that is undesirable . It should be compact . Her personalfavourite was it should be T-shaped . And maybe have an anar alarm-clock . And the material should possibly be not of non-allergic nature . Uh the different systems uh that exist are infra-red or radio-waves . Uhmaybe it should have uh electri electrici electricity saving feature .Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: And {vocalsound} even possibly a timer to {disfmarker} so that people can program{vocalsound} their favourite uh uh program on th right from the remote .User Interface: Yes .Project Manager: Uh are we all in agreement that that's about what we discussed last time ? Okay .User Interface: Yes.Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah , I think that pretty much is it . Yeah . Mm-hmm .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay , then we {disfmarker} I'm looking for three presentations . And uh I don't knowwhether the order matters much uh , I don't I don't think so , so whoever w wants {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay , I can start first .Project Manager: Yeah , okay .User Interface: Okay . Now my slide , please .{vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay , your slides . Okay . Oh , come on , close already .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: And that's number two , right ?User Interface: Three .Project Manager: Three .UserInterface: Participant three . Yes . Okay .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Now as an interface designer , I would give more emphasis on the interface , how the remote looks like so that it is sellable , it isattractive to customers . Next , please . Okay . Now the function of a remote is to send messages to the television . This messages could be uh switch on-off message or switch to next channel message or swapping thechannels or switching onto a particular channel , like you can have the numbers one , two , three , four , up to nine .Project Manager: Nine what ? Nine channel uh switches ?User Interface: Pardon me ?Project Manager:Nine channel switches ? Is {disfmarker} Yeah . Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .User Interface: Yes , nine numbers . And then you have swapping of uh buttonProject Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: by which {disfmarker}using which you can swap the channels if you don't want to see the third channel you can swap it to the fourth channel or vice versa . Then it should have a next button , and next button channel by which you can keepon uh v uh mm eh scrolling the channels one by one .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Going to the nex next .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Next slide , please .Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Then you should have a button which should which ca which can be used for increasing or decreasing the volume .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Then , there should be a button which cangive subtitles for a particular program which is going on a television . For example , if you are watching a French program and you would like to have a subtitles in English , then there should be a channel which cantrigger this mechanism in the television so that the user can see uh the {gap} the subtitles on the screen .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Then there should d uh there should besome buttons which can control features like the colour , colour of the picture , the contrast , sharpness , brightness of the picture . Now there should be a memory switch . There should be a mute button . Suddenly if ifif uh uh viewer he gets a telephone call , and if he want he doesn't want to switch off the uh T_V_ , but he he can reduce the sound , he can bring the volume down and he can watch {disfmarker} he can uh{disfmarker} while talking he can watch the T_V_ . Now the most important feature I would like to have in my remote would be the speech recognition feature . It's an integrated progra programmable sample sensorspeaker unit . So a remote can be th can be uh designed which can have the voice recognisers , you can record your own voiceProject Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: which can be recognised by as voice recogniserin the television , for example , if you want to see {disfmarker} we if you want to see the ninth channel if you say just say ninth channel , uh th now the the {disfmarker} uh yeah , the remote will {disfmarker}automatically it will switch to the ninth channel .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .User Interface: So the T_V_ will have some recogniser which will recognise the user's voice andaccordingly it will change its functionalities .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .User Interface: So this is one of the very important feature a remote control can have . So this is one one of the interface which canbe created .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: A very simple interface which has all the t uh uh important features .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Then , please , next slide .Project Manager:Mm-hmm .User Interface: Then , these are some of the remotes which are different in shape and colour , but they have many buttons .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: So uh sometimes the user finds it verydifficult to recognise which button is for what function and all that . So you can you can design an interface which is very simple , and which is user-friendly . Even a kid can use that .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .UserInterface: So can you go on t t uh to the next slide . Yeah , so this is one of the interface or one of the remote which has this vi voice recogniser .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Andthis has multi-purpose use , it can be used for T_V_ , it can be used for cable-satellite , it can be used for V_C_R_ , D_V_D_s and audio . And this has in-built voice recogniser .Project Manager: {vocalsound}UserInterface: Can you go on to the next slide ? Yeah , now this is an interface for a chil uh for a remote uh uh which a child can use .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Uh this is user-friendly , it's very attractiveand uh children can use it as well as they can play with it . And this comes with different colours , different shapes .Industrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: And this this uh child uhinterface has minimum buttonsMarketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: and all the important uh buttons are there in this small , compact , attractive child interface . Next slide , please . Now this is a big over-sizedremote which cannot be misplaced or it's impossible to misplace .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: You don't know me.User Interface: {vocalsound} {gap} {vocalsound} {gap} this . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I could lose that in a minute . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}UserInterface: So this is {disfmarker} {vocalsound} No this is a very big , you cannot {vocalsound} misplace it anywhere .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} So this is a jumbo universal remote controland it's impossible to im misplace or lose . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: This i this is one such interface which can be created . {vocalsound} And the personalpreference {vocalsound} uh would be a spe uh uh to incorporate speech recognisers uh which will respond to user's voice for a particular uh function .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Right .UserInterface: Thank you , that's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Okay , thank you very much . Uh any comments on uh her presentation ?Marketing: Well , um looks like we still have quite a choice of things outthere .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Um what uh {vocalsound} I'm {disfmarker} No suggestion's bad .User Interface: Mm yes .Marketing: But uh we're gonna have to narrow it down a little more . I don'tthink that we can get uh {disfmarker} The T-shape is good , the child one is good , the too big to misplace , I think it's just funny .User Interface: Okay . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Um I don't think that'sgonna be our impulse purchase at the checkout counter .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah , I I th I think {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay . {gap} {vocalsound}Marketing: It's it's gonna be alittle bit too unwieldy .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: No , I think the these are her presentations , but uh as far as the decision making we getting to that after afterMarketing: Yeah mm . Mm-hmm .Have to come back to that later . Okay .User Interface: We can .Project Manager: but if {disfmarker} I just wanted to know whether anybody had any any anything to add to her presentation .Marketing: No , I think herpresentation was good , and she really explored all the options . Yeah .Project Manager: Mm right . Mm-hmm . Ho who wants to go next um ? Mm-hmm . Okay ,Industrial Designer: Yeah , maybe .Project Manager: andyou {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Participant two .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh okay .Industrial Designer: Uh the next one , sorry .Project Manager: Oops .Industrial Designer: It's it was the old one.Project Manager: The components design .Industrial Designer: Components .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Okay .Industrial Designer: Um this time I'm I'm going to um concentrate more on the components and thetechnical side of the remote controller design .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Uh , can you go on to the next slide , please .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: I have just brief {vocalsound} uhdown few uh components which we require for the remote control uh construction .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Uh the first one is case to keep all the components like integrated circuit , battery ,etcetera , etcetera , it's like {disfmarker} Uh it can be a plastic one , hard plastic , so that it can be strong , even if you just uh uh , {vocalsound} you know , if you {vocalsound} {disfmarker} if it falls down , then itdoesn't {vocalsound} break . So it should be strong .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: And uh uh there are no harmful materials used in that . And it should be recyclable .Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Uh and uh {vocalsound} ,Marketing: Mm-hmm . Good point .Industrial Designer: yeah , and also uh using of colouring compon components like uh if we want to have different colours , blue , red ,green , so uh uh we have to use uh some colouring compone compone components . And uh the second important thing is uh uh uh integrated circuit .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Uh which uh we canuse a highly sophisticated one because it's like the it's like the heart of the remote controller . If it is not efficient then everything wi is going to be uh like um the lef ess less efficient so it {disfmarker} you should{disfmarker} we should have a highly sophisticated one . And it should be resistant to high as well as uh low temperatures . Suppose if it is thirty-eight degrees outside forty degrees outside , it should it should uh{vocalsound} be able to re uh resist the uh temperature uh uh highs and uh high temperatures and low temperatures . And uh it should be with uh {vocalsound} um {disfmarker} equipped with timer and alarm facility. And the uh other component we should {disfmarker} uh we have in the remote controller is a resistor uh which is like uh uh i it is very very much important for the electricity uh flow through {vocalsound} throughthrough the uh remote controller and uh also a capacitor which is a b which is a m I think it's it's like a battery , capacitor . Can you go on to the next slide , please ?Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Uh a diode , a transistor , a resonator , these are all this uh technical uh electri electronic compons uh components which are {disfmarker} which we have to use in a remote controller . A battery uh, I would like to suggest one thing uh if we {disfmarker} uh if we will be able to make a res rechargeable battery then we sh we need not go for a high performance battery , even if it is a low performance battery it ca itcan't l it can't charge much .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: It it it's not a high voltage battery . Then also we can {disfmarker} If it is a rechargeable one , then uh people can use it for a long time , so in thatway we can cut cut the cost , but w uh uh that we have to make the battery as rechargeable one . And we we have a circuit board uh in a remote controller . Can you go to the next slide , please . And how it works ,how the remote controller works .Project Manager: Go away .Industrial Designer: Thank you . Uh when you press a button , when you do that , you complete a specific connection that means when you when you pressa button there will be a s a small circuit underneath the button , and it will send some signals through the wires ,Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and then uh the chip will send start connection and knowsthat which button is pressed . Suppose you have pressed channel one button , number one you have pressed , then the uh chip will know that the number one button was pressed .Marketing: {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: It pros produces a mors morse code line signal specific to that button . Every button , every individual button , has its own morse code . Suppose uh the uh user has pressed butto button one , then it will havea spe the circuit will generate a specific morse code to b {vocalsound} that that button , and the transistor will amplify the signal and send then to the L_E_D_ which translates the signal into infrared light . Like{vocalsound} you have got a signal by pressing a button . That's a d a morse code has been generated by the integrated circuit . Now , that signal , that morse code , has to be amplified by the transistor . That is theuse of transist transistor we {disfmarker} which we use in the remote controller . It will amplify the signal and it will send it to the L_E_D_ and which translates the signal into an infra infrared bits . The sensor on theT_V_ can see the infrared light , and seeing the signal seeing the signal re it reacts appropriately , that when it sees the amplified mo morse code signal , then it will uh it will uh know which uh what what action it has touh do . Then it will do the appropriate action . So uh this is how the remote controller works .User Interface: It works .Industrial Designer: Can you go to the next slide , please . Yeah , I have few pictures . When youlook at the uh um remote controller uh it's it's {vocalsound} it {disfmarker} this is a normal remote controller . And {gap} to the next slide , please .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: And where we had a a fewbuttons and all . And uh if you open the remote controller you have this circui circuit board and few electronic components ,Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: like you can see a chip there which is havingeighteen pins ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: and also a capac uh a capacitor , three resistors and also a resonator uh um mm {disfmarker} yeah , and di and a diode transistor.Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: The electronic components {disfmarker} uh all of the electronic components have all those uh things like a chip and d {vocalsound} diode transistors an Yeah , di umcan y uh you can see the T_A_ double one eight three five labelled uh chip um .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Mm yes .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Yes .Industrial Designer: Uh you can also seethe uh uh the green {disfmarker} two green things are uh these are {disfmarker} they are {disfmarker} they are resistors ,User Interface: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: and uh just beside that you can see atransistor , and a uh uh cylinder shape , uh that one is a capacitor . Uh and also there are uh {vocalsound} um resistors {disfmarker} uh sorry , ther there is a diode .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer:Can you go {disfmarker} go on to the next slide .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: So uh this is the circuit board . The green one is a circuit board . Actually , uh building a circuit bo board is pretty prettyuh easy and also it's a it's a l l inexpensive . Uh it's it costs less than what you print on a paper , because uh {vocalsound} uh when you {disfmarker} when you are building uh some circuits {disfmarker} some um uhcircuits and also wires , it's it's better to go for printing , because uh you can build these kind of k circuit boards on a on a bulk and it's just printing , nothing like uh , you know , you don't need to use wires and all .UserInterface: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: It's not exactly wires we are using . It's just printing something on a board .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Tha tho those prints will acti act as wires and ci uhcircuits . So th that green uh thing is a circuit board , and also you can see uh there are b s like uh um access for buttons , like when you press a button , the circuit under the button will be activated uh th it will it willhe get some signals from it and it will uh it will ch its ch se send a signal {disfmarker} signals to the , yeah , um integrated circuit .User Interface: Transmit .Industrial Designer: Can you go to the next slide , please . Uhso this is {disfmarker} these are the circuits un underneath the buttons . Uh can you see the black uh , round marks ?Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: They they are the circuits .Marketing: Yes.Industrial Designer: Next , please . And um like uh we have uh designed uh before we have seen some uh few things like {vocalsound} instead off buttons we have some scrolls . Uh b but a b a push-button requires asimple chip underneath it , but whereas a scroll wheel requires normally a regular chip which is a higher price range . Like for s scrolls we have to go for a sophisticated and and k uh {vocalsound} uh uh full{disfmarker} a complete chip .Marketing: Okay .User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: Uh and a as energy source we offer a basic battery , a more ingenious uh hard dynamo , um a kinetic provision of energy ,more than what is that you shake casually to provide energy . So that also we can have in a battery , uh or we can use solar sells . Uh .Marketing: Hmm , that's interesting .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Uh yeah uh theproduct can be de delivered into different cases . Uh usually , the cases and card flat {vocalsound} that w we see usually uh d uh a normal remote controller .User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: Um .Project"}
{"doc_id":"doc_118","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Hello , uh this meeting we are it's fo should be focused on the conceptual design of the remote control .Marketing: Hello .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Hello .Project Manager: Um thegoal of this meeting is to reach a decision at the end on the concept and I think the last time we talked about an a lot and we had a rough idea of what is going to be , but uh in th at the end of this meeting we have toto reach a decision . So , uh we will have again three presentation , from all of you , and uh I hope it will be fast because I would like to have time to for long discussion and and decisions . So , who wants to start ?Okay .User Interface: I sMarketing: Okay .User Interface: No , no , you you can start .Project Manager: So start , uhMarketing: Okay , I'll start . Can you open my presentation ,Project Manager:{vocalsound}Marketing: please .Project Manager: Uh . {gap}Marketing: I'm number four .Project Manager: This one ?Marketing: Trend . Yep . Can you pass the mouse , please . {vocalsound} Oh okay , that's fine.Project Manager: Turn .Marketing: Okay . Um so basically I just want to presented to you {disfmarker} present to you some recent results we've had from um looking at uh um some remote control market researchand some fashion trends around the world . Um the fashion trends we got from talking to our our contacts in the fashion industry based in Paris and Milan . {vocalsound} Um {vocalsound} so f from our market researchbasically we've come to the conclusion that a fancy look and feel , um as opposed to a functional look and feel , is our number one priority . Um fancy is is is is the , you know , highest priority .Project Manager: Hmm.Industrial Designer: Hmm .Marketing: Secondly um that our remote control needs to be techn technologically innovative . Um so this is t number two priority but it's two times less important as the fancy criteria . Umand third thirdly the easiness of use is is the um is is important as well , but again two times less important as the technologically innovativeness of the remote control . {vocalsound} From our f fashion people in Parisand Milan , um we've discovered that this year um fruit the fruit and vegetable motif will be the most important thing in in clothes , shoes and furniture . So , {vocalsound} I'm pretty confident that our remote controlfits into the furniture category . And also um the feel of material this year um is expected to be spongy .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Um so hopefully our remote control reflects that s in some way .IndustrialDesigner: What does it mean , spongy ?Marketing: Uh sort of um squishy .Industrial Designer: Like soft , or something ?Marketing: Um . Yeah soft ,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: like a uh like a sponge.Project Manager: Like a sponge . {vocalsound} Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound} I don't know . Yeah .Industrial Designer: Okay . I will see .Marketing: Um so in conclusion , we need a our remote control needs to besomething that's really fancy , um has lots of technolog tech technology in it . {vocalsound} Um somehow would be good to have it related to fruit and vegetables with a spongy feel .Project Manager:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: And that it's easy to use and from our last meeting our you know Fabian told us that w you know one of the requirementsis that we have to reflect the look and feel of our {disfmarker} of th the Real Reaction company . Um .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah , uh yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound} That's it.Project Manager: Easy to use , is it uh a as much as important than technology or fancy thing . It's less important , right ?Marketing: Less important .Project Manager: Yeah yeah .Marketing: So um fanciness first andthen two ti you know , half as important as that is technology technology ,Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: and half important as technology is easy to use . So .Project Manager: {gap} So , Hamed , can you {gap}.User Interface: Yeah . The second one . Could you please show the presentation number three .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: I think the biggest struggle will be the easy to use feature .ProjectManager: {vocalsound} Um . Number ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} We'll see .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Three .User Interface: Three .Project Manager: This one ? {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound} Yes . {gap} Just Could you please check if it is the first one or the second . Uh , n n no , it's the first one . The second one .Project Manager: So it's not this one .User Interface: Uh yeah . Okay . {gap}Okay . So I am going to talk about {disfmarker} a little bit about how this remote control should be appear to be more easy to use . I think uh I think the feature easy to use is more important than being fancy , butokay , we can discuss about it uh later . Um {vocalsound} generally , generally uh this remote control uh uh should be should be something , in my opinion , uh the first feature is just to be easy to use . So , the morefrequent buttons should be larger , they should be placed in a good position uh uh inside the remote control . And uh s uh I can conclude like this , that we shouldn't need to learn how to use it . It should be{disfmarker} we shouldn't need to es open a a t book and uh start reading and uh learning how to use this uh this uh remote control . {vocalsound} Okay . So what I found out that uh as I said uh I think it's better toput uh more frequent uh uh uh ke uh buttons which are used more in the middle of the remote control , and they should be bigger in size . Uh the shape of remote control should be in a way which can {disfmarker}which should be taken easily in hand . It should not be completely like uh a cube . It should be it should have round edge , so uh then it's easier .Industrial Designer: Exactly .User Interface: And maybe uh just likesome toys , some joystick which is easier to take inside the hand . And uh also f uh uh m because because customers doesn't like to buy lots of battery , it should not uh consume lots of energy . Okay . And my personalp uh preference is uh , as I said , uh just putting this buttons in a special places and covered some buttons which are not used uh that much like settings button , like mobile phone . Usually some mobile phone coverthe dialling number part , so we can cover these buttons which are not used or uh number buttons for the for the for the can channels , and just put uh volume change or s ch can uh channel change buttons uh uh in theremote control . And if the user needed to do some more complex task uh he he can open the cover and then change settings or something like this . Uh . And also uh I think if we put some some some some somebuttons inside of the remote control it can be used easier . Not on remote control . I dunno if I can explain well . But uh just inside . For example , a sliding or rolling uh uh d uh stuff , if we put it inside then we caneasily manipulate with uh thumb . So it can be another uh preference . And uh I dunno but uh I think usage of a speech recogn uh r recogniser can be good . I know that it consumes lots of energy , but if we do it insome way that it asleeps when there is no sound and when it detects some sound it may consume less energy . And I think it's good because it's something new and usually young people like something new . So it maynot be very useful but because it's new , people may buy it . Uh I personally think there should be a big difference between uh between something . Otherwise they prefer to buy something which is coming from afamous company , or . Okay . That's mine .Project Manager: Okay . {gap}Industrial Designer: Uh okay , so good news from me uh uh for me from Hamed , but bad news from Bob obviously , because spongy design , Idon't like it as {gap} {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay , so could you please , Fabien , open it .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: I'm person two . And which one , uh probably the first one . I'm not sure but check the first one . I {disfmarker} Most of the things I have to write myself on the board , but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Thisone , yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah , that's it . Just {disfmarker} It's only this slide ? Yeah . This this is just uh one thing I wanted to mention and show you that I just uh I just found this , that our company uhdeveloped a s a seven f seven fingers or I'll just {disfmarker}Marketing: Inch .Industrial Designer: Yeah , seven seven inch T_ {disfmarker} T_F_T_ screen , which is good news for us , since we wanted to include adisplay there . Uh so I I probably draw it down raw scheme .Project Manager: Oh , {gap} .Industrial Designer: This is this is the stuff that I can use to {disfmarker}Project Manager: Oops .Industrial Designer: Okay , sothe {disfmarker} this will be like the overall scheme or overall requirements from the engineering point of view . Uh first thing is uh this will be the overall shape , no uh I'm not speaking about the real shape of thedevice , but the shape of the inside of the device . So there will be some circuit uh for the power . So , say power circuit here . Uh the main energy will be taken from batteries that we can uh uh {disfmarker} And if wedecide to use the speech recognition stuff there , we must use additional source of energy , which I found the best is to use the solar cells which can which can uh supply everything . I was computing all the all thethings related to the speech recognition , and it's okay to use just uh two batteries and solar cells , so . So no problem . There can be also solar cell . Uh the main board with all the circuits will take at least seven toseven centimetres , so this is my like hard requirement for the guys from the design .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: So at least seven to seven . It depends where you put your screen , because thescreen is uh seven inch , so it depends on you where where you put it .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: It doesn't matter . Um it's just one cord from from the main board to the screen which can beelsewhere . So this will be T_F_T_ . And on the main board we have the um interface to the microphone , which is somewhere , say here . Interface to the microphone . Then the graphical card uh for the T_F_T_ and thethird unit is the I_R_ . The good news is that we can uh we decided to use the infra-red unit because our company has also developed the chip for communication by the infra-red , including all the stuff inside , so it willbe very cheap for us . So infra-red here . So the {disfmarker} once again the overall requirements , seven to seven centimetres for the board , which has to be {disfmarker} which can be spongy but has to be this size ,and the T_F_T_ which is seven inches . Um I have to check what I wanted to {disfmarker} Uh from my point of view I don't care about the about the material used for the overall des uh ov all the device .ProjectManager: Can you fit any uh for example a T_F_T_ or any electronic device in a spongy thing , or is there any problem for that ? For example , put electronic card on a spongy thing , I can I can imagine it could be aproblem .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} A all these things in in uh in this box are okay to put in in any shape , basically .Project Manager: Yep .Industrial Designer: But we have to take care of the T_F_T_ . Well ,sponginess . Maybe it a good feature , since it takes {disfmarker} if it's around the T_F_T_ then it's good , because it's just keeps it safe ,Project Manager: Okay . So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I dunno .UserInterface: Well maybe it can have two shells , a hard shell inside and a spongy shell outside .Marketing: SoProject Manager: Okay . Maybe put electronic in a box and a spongy thing around . {gap} maybe after.Industrial Designer: Well , it's maybe related to the U_I_ .Marketing: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Ca Can I ask a question . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: A Yeah , that's all from me.Marketing: This seven inch T_F_T_ screen ,Industrial Designer: Yeah ?Marketing: how big is it in reality ?Industrial Designer: Well , seven to seven inches .Marketing: So like that .Industrial Designer: Yes .ProjectManager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: That's quite big .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Uh uh have we decided that we're gonna use this T_F_T_ screen ?Project Manager: No , Idon't think it's seven by seven ,Industrial Designer: Yeah but {disfmarker}Project Manager: I think it's seven {disfmarker} the diagonal is seven .Industrial Designer: To be honest , I was {disfmarker}Project Manager:Usually when they say seven inch I think it's the diagonal .User Interface: Yeah yes {gap} .Marketing: But I mean even even that is like this big .Project Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound} I dunno I dun I dun One each{gap}User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: {gap}Project Manager: . But , yeah , {gap} .Industrial Designer: Yeah , honestly speaking I was thinking that it was seven centimetres initially ,Marketing:Yeah .Industrial Designer: but it's seven inches . But I I think we can we can cut it .Marketing: You can cut the T_F_T_ screen . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Let's go . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:Yeah , no no problem ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: because because because then the size of the graphic card will be one fourth .Project Manager: {vocalsound} So let's cut the T_F_T_ .IndustrialDesigner: So {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah , but no problem to to me to cut the screen .User Interface: Mm .Marketing: Okay , so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So sofor the same price we have four screens now {vocalsound} .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: These technical engineers , huh .Marketing: So , what's the size of the device ?Industrial Designer:Ah well this is like this is almost nothing . Seven to seven to at least well some three millimetres or something .Marketing: Even from my perspective seven t seven centimetres by seven centimetres is still{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah , but we wanted the big buttons and stuff like that , you know .Marketing: Is it {disfmarker} Can you hold that , or ?Industrial Designer: Because if it's t too small we can we canlose it , at home , you know .Project Manager: {vocalsound} What user wants . He wants a small remote control , or ? Uh uh with big buttons .User Interface: Uh .Industrial Designer: I thought that it it should fit in thehand or something .Marketing: Yeah , a small c control that they can hold in hand .Project Manager: It's difficult .User Interface: Yes .Project Manager: {vocalsound} A smIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing:But is something that's seven centimetres square e easy to hold ?User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: W I I think so . I if the roller buttons are on the side you don't have to catch it like that , but just likethis , and you know follow follow {disfmarker} Well , that's that's no task for me , but well seven to seven at least yeah ,Project Manager: {vocalsound} So maybe you can finish your presentation ,User Interface:{vocalsound}Project Manager: and afterwards we will discuss about all this .Industrial Designer: but {disfmarker} Oh , okay .User Interface: Maybe this {gap} .Marketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: Okay thanks {gap}.Project Manager: That's it . Okay . So . {vocalsound} {gap} No . Uh , so I think we have a lot {disfmarker} We have to take decision today , so I think we have to do some work to finalise our idea and take decisions .Uh first I think energy it's a key problem because uh it depend what can we have as feature if we use only batteries , for example , or something like that . Because can we have L_C_D_ and speech recognition withbattery , and it's also r related to the size of the of the devi of the device ?Industrial Designer: Not {disfmarker} J uh just a point to the energy th things . If we use the batteries , and the additional so solar cell , thenit's okay for L_ uh speech recognition and L_C_D_ ,Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: so no problem in energy , I think .Project Manager: So {disfmarker} Okay .Industrial Designer: But we have to use thesolar cell .User Interface: So but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Uh like {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Otherwise not .Project Manager: but using how many batteries , for example ? Are are what Maybe what is thesize of the battery {gap}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah I was thinking just common A_A_ cells .Project Manager: Okay . Uh one two {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So like three to five centimetres ,ProjectManager: Okay .Industrial Designer: I dunno exactly , but .Marketing: So if we use s solar cells , um where is the sun if someone's watching T_V_ inside ?Industrial Designer: S Uh d doesn't need to be sun . It it's justthe daylight , you know .Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Okay .Project Manager: The television lights . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah well I I suppose that I suppose that uh that this remote controlwon't be in the in the room like this , where there is light only when when there are people , but .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Mm-hmm .ProjectManager: At least when there is T_V_ you can get light from the T_V_ .Industrial Designer: Yeah from the T_ {vocalsound} {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: I don't think it's enough , uh .ProjectManager: {vocalsound} I dunno .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Okay . Mm .Industrial Designer: Ah it's a it's a compromise , no ?Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: At least it's new and maybe technologyNew technology .Industrial Designer: Yeah , that's why I wanted to to include the speech recognition , because you wanted all the new things .Marketing: It's it's quite innovative , yes .Project Manager: Yeah .UserInterface: Hmm .Project Manager: Um .Marketing: And if you watch T_V_ outside it's {vocalsound} very useful . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So I think before talking about the otherthing , it's important thing it's the case .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh what what are gonna be the size , because its weight drives the other {disfmarker} what we are going to use as featuresand so on . For example for the for the L_C_D_ , if we choose to have a small device , we cannot use this um a such a a a screen .Industrial Designer: Uh the s the screen is okay , but the board , uh that's the problem .Well what what would you guess as a shape ? Or what what would be the shape ?User Interface: Mm . I think I think their being uh large or small is not important . The only important thing is to be able to take it in uhinside hand easily . So let's say an average size , okay ,Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: and it should not be very heavy also . And I prefer to {disfmarker} is it shouldn't have a uniform shape , so in the middleit should be a little bit thinner , maybe maybe . So we c it's like like some joysticks . You can take uh some some joystick you can take inside hand easier because it's it's designed for your f uh taking into account yourfinger shape and your palm shape . So the general shape should be like this . I think uh seven centimetre by seven centimetre is a little bit large . So uh seven {disfmarker} not seven but let's say five by ten it's I thinkit's {disfmarker} that's my opinion . It's easier .Industrial Designer: Okay .Marketing: Which is the same area .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay .User Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound}Marketing: Could you recould you redesign your board ?Industrial Designer: Five to ten . Well that {disfmarker}Marketing: Oh , five five centimetres by ten centimetres .Industrial Designer: Yeah , right .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer:Yeah , I think it's feasib Well one um um {disfmarker} How could we do it ? We could put the board next to , well , under the L_C_D_ and for example make the L_C_D_ be totally unrelated to the thing that you hold inyour hand .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Like holding something , and the L_C_D_ to be just on top of it , you know somehow . Well {disfmarker} But maybe let's stick to the s spongy thing , like oneunit .Project Manager: Oh . I've I s I think the easiest thing would be to to have a smaller L_C_D_ , if it's possible .Industrial Designer: Well fi five to ten it would be feasible .User Interface: Mm .Industrial Designer:Okay , so five to ten , I I think it's it's feasible .Project Manager: Okay . So we are agree with a smallIndustrial Designer: I'll make it .User Interface: {gap} Or uh or I don't knowProject Manager: L_C_D_ .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Fo Five by ten .User Interface: but I don't want to now invent something new , because we didn't discuss about it . So using some L_C_D_s we can touch , so we can remove uh keys"}
{"doc_id":"doc_119","qid":"","text":"The Chair (Hon. Anthony Rota (NipissingTimiskaming, Lib.)): I call this meeting to order. Welcome to the 13th meeting of the House of Commons Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic. This will be a hybridmeeting. Some members will be participating via video conference and some will be participating in person. In order to ensure that those joining the meeting via video conference can be seen and heard by those in thechamber, two screens have been set up on either side of the Chairs chair, and members in the chamber can listen to the floor audio or to interpretation using the earpieces at their desks. Before speaking, please waituntil I recognize you by name, and please direct your remarks through the chair. For those joining via video conference, I would like to remind you to leave your mike on muteMr. Ziad Aboultaif (Edmonton Manning,CPC): I have a point of order.The Chair: Can the member wait for the point of order until we finish the introduction?Mr. Ziad Aboultaif: There is so much noise in the background over there, Mr. Chair.The Chair: That is avery good point of order. I want to remind everyone that when we speak, it is picked up. We have amazing speakersand an amazing Speaker, but that's a whole other storyand amazing microphones in the chamber,and they do pick up everything. I know there was some chatter going on in the background. I want to make sure everyone is aware of that. Mr. Aboultaif, that was a very good point of order. I appreciate that. For thosejoining us via video conference, I would like to remind you to leave your mikes on mute when you're not speaking. Also, please note that if you want to speak in English, you should be on the English channel, and if youwant to speak in French, you should be on the French channel. Should you wish to alternate between the two languages, you should change the channel to the language that you are speaking each time you switchlanguages. Should members participating by video conference wish to request the floor outside their designated speaking times, they should activate their mic and state that they have a point of order. Those in theChamber can rise in the usual way. Please note that today's proceedings will be televised. I understand that there are no ministerial announcements for today, so we'll continue to the presentation of petitions, for aperiod not exceeding 15 minutes. I would like to remind members that any petition presented during a meeting of the special committee must have already been certified by the clerk of petitions. For membersparticipating in person, we ask that they please come and drop the signed certificate off at the table once the petition is presented. The first petition goes to Mr. Manly, who is joining us via video conference.Mr. PaulManly (NanaimoLadysmith, GP): Thank you, Mr. Chair. This is a petition that calls on the government to deal with helping our honey bees. They are crucial to our food system. They provide hundreds of billions of dollarsworth of services to commercial agricultural crops and other ecological services every year, and the European Union has put heavy restrictions on the chemicals that are affecting them, the neonicotinoids. This petitioncalls on the Government of Canada, for the sake of bees and our food security, to follow Europe's lead and adhere to the precautionary principle by banning the use of neonicotinoids in Canada.The Chair: The nextpresenter of petitions will be Mr. Genuis, who is very parliamentary and dressed from the waist up, I understand.Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood ParkFort Saskatchewan, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair, and that is all youneed to see for the moment. Canadians are horrified by the military report on the conditions of long-term care in Ontario. It raises big questions about the choices facing seniors in certain situations, which is whatmakes this first petition particularly timely. I am tabling a petition related to Bill C-7, the government's euthanasia bill, which seeks to dramatically remove safeguards that the government said were vital only a shorttime ago. When some people are living in deplorable conditions, we cannot truly speak of them as having a choice of when they ought to die. Especially in light of that new information, I commend this petition for theconsideration of members of the House. The second petition is in support of Bill S-204 on organ harvesting and trafficking, put forward in the Senate. The bill would make it a criminal offence for a person to go abroadand receive an organ without the donor's consent. This bill seeks to combat the horrific practice of forced organ harvesting and trafficking.The Chair: The next petition presenter will be Ms. May.Ms. Elizabeth May(SaanichGulf Islands, GP): Thank you, Mr. Chair, and greetings from SaanichGulf Islands. The petition I'm presenting today is petition e-2509, which has been duly certified. It relates to what I think many of us willregard as the real heroes of the last few months. In this pandemic, there have often been very underpaid and overworked front-line workers who receive minimum wage and nothing more, and who are of coursedeemed essential services. The petitioners have asked the government to implement a wage supplement as a temporary measure to bring the wages for those who are in contact with the general public and working inwhat has been deemed an essential service to no less than $20 an hour, in light of their service and the risks they're taking for all of us.The Chair: We have a point of order from Ms. Harder.Ms. Rachael Harder(Lethbridge, CPC): Mr. Chair, the honourable member who just spoke brought up a great point yesterday. She said that when we present petitions, we are simply supposed to give one or two sentences before puttingthem on the table. I believe that was more than one or two sentences.The Chair: I want to remind honourable members that when they are presenting petitions, they should be very concise with the prcis that they giveup front, as opposed to going on for a long time. Now we will proceed to statements by members for a period not exceeding 15 minutes, and each statement will be for one minute. We will start with Mr. Fonseca.Mr.Peter Fonseca (Mississauga EastCooksville, Lib.): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Today I am honoured to recognize the youth in my riding of Mississauga EastCooksville who are part of the 52nd Mississauga Scouts. For over adecade, I've had the great opportunity to join the Scouts every year during the month of May for the door-to-door food drives. This year has been a lot different, owing to the COVID situation, but our Scouts are notused to saying the word impossible. David Chant, head leader for their cub pack, reached out to share that the youth have found innovative ways to engage our community through a virtual food bank. I say a big thankyou to Scout leaders like David, who are strong role models for our youth, teaching them the importance of leadership, kindness and giving back. I've always been amazed with the support within our community for theScouts' food drive. David and his group of Scouts raised over $46,000 worth of food last year for the Mississauga Food Bank and The Compass. Again, I give a huge virtual high-five to all of our young Scouts, who havetaken the lead with lots of compassion and care.The Chair: We'll now go on to Mr. Richards.Mr. Blake Richards (BanffAirdrie, CPC): May 24 to May 31 is Tourism Week in Canada. This annual celebration is a time for usto recognize the contributions and experiences of Canada's tourism industry. This is a very important industry, and this year's Tourism Week is a little different from what it normally is. The ongoing coronavirus crisishas closed provincial and international borders to recreational travel, and tourism operators from coast to coast have been among the first and hardest hit due to the government-mandated lockdowns. Clear criteriaregarding border reopenings and health and safety requirements will allow hospitality and tourism businesses to sufficiently prepare to reopen. This includes rehiring employees, ordering supplies and putting togethertour packages and marketing plans. Operators do not need to be set back any further because of a lack of clarity around reopening. While this Tourism Week is not a celebration like the one we had expected, Ianticipate next year's celebration to be a celebration of an even stronger and more successful tourism industry in Canada.  The 1.8 million Canadians whose jobs depend on a thriving tourism sector are counting onit.   Bonne semaine to tourism.The Chair: We'll go on to Mr. Rogers.Mr. Churence Rogers (BonavistaBurinTrinity, Lib.): Mr. Chair, Monday was a sad day in my riding of BonavistaBurinTrinity, and indeed our entireprovince. Please join me as I offer sincere condolences to the families of the men who lost their lives at sea in a tragic accident off the coast of St. Lawrence in Placentia Bay.  Ed Norman, his son Scott Norman and hisnephew Jody Norman all tragically lost their lives while fishing for crab this past Monday. A fourth man, family friend Isaac Kettle, was also with them. After a courageous search mission by Canadian Coast Guardauxiliary members and the Department of National Defence and Provincial Airlines, he is unfortunately still missing. We grieve with the entire town of St. Lawrence as they mourn this tragic loss of life. Mr. Chair, I amsure the entire province of Newfoundland and Labrador, this parliamentary family and Canadians from coast to coast to coast join me in thinking of these men, along with their friends and families, during this difficulttime. Thank you, Mr. Chair.The Chair: We'll now continue with Mr.Simard.Mr. Mario Simard (Jonquire, BQ): Thank you, Mr.Chair. I would like to speak to you today about a solid man who unfortunately passed away onMay25. We were greatly saddened to learn about the death of FrancisDufour. This builder of Quebec's political history drew his last breath at the age of91, late Sunday night. Mr.Dufour was the archetypal proudrepresentative of my region who spent his entire life in Jonquire. He first became involved in the Alcan employee's union in Arvida, then continued his civic involvement at the municipal level as mayor, then in theQuebec National Assembly as the member for Jonquire. He will be remembered as a man with deep ties to his community, a man of integrity, a people person, who dedicated himself to serving citizens and advancingthe independence movement in Quebec. On behalf of the people of the riding of Jonquire and all the people of Quebec, I offer my most sincere condolences to FrancisDufour's family and loved ones. Thank you.TheChair: We are continuing with MartinezFerrada.Ms. Soraya Martinez Ferrada (Hochelaga, Lib.): Thank you, Mr.Chair. The pandemic has greatly affected Montreal East, particularly the riding of Hochelaga, which Irepresent. Today, I'd like to recognize the exceptional work of all the volunteers and organizations in Hochelaga that are helping the more vulnerable populations, including Anonyme, CAP St-Barnab, CARE Montral, theCuisine collective Hochelaga-Maisonneuve, Bouffe Action, the Centre Communautaire Hochelaga, Chic Resto Pop, Jojo Dpannage, Groupe d'Entraide de Mercier-Ouest and many others. I'd like to acknowledge thecommitment of the merchants who have rolled up their sleeves, including the Coop Couturires Pop, to make masks. I'd especially like to recognize essential workers, especially attendants. Allow me to offer ourcondolences to the loved ones of the attendants who have lost their lives to protect ours. The citizens of Hochelaga are resilient and unified. I am proud to rise in the House to salute them.The Chair: The nextpresentation will be by Mr. Cumming.Mr. James Cumming (Edmonton Centre, CPC): Mr. Chair, I rise today to pay tribute to a great Albertan and former parliamentarian, Louise Feltham, who passed away this Mondayafter a lengthy battle with cancer. Louise was an entrepreneur, a public servant and a force of nature. She inspired the family motto How hard can it be? by creating communities and building several homes in herlifetime. In all that she did, Louise broke glass ceilings. Her many firsts included being the first woman to serve as a councillor in rural Alberta, the first female reeve in rural Alberta and the first woman born inNewfoundland to serve in this chamber. She was the MP for Wild Rose from 1988 to 1993. Her son Glenn served as the president of NAIT when I chaired the board. My thoughts and sympathies are with him, his wifeTammi and the rest of their family for this great loss. Her parliamentary family mourns with you today.   Some hon. members: Hear, hear!The Chair: We will now go to Mr. Bagnell.Hon. Larry Bagnell (Yukon, Lib.): Mr.Chair, it is a great honour to speak to the House of Commons today from Whitehorse, Yukon, here on the traditional territory of the Kwanlin Dn First Nation and the Ta'an Kwch'n Council. As a great historic Canadianevent last week, Yukon became home to Canada's first university north of 60. Yukon University will provide Yukoners with educational opportunities closer to home, expand our research capabilities and expertise on theArctic and climate change and allow those who want to study northern and first nations governance to do so in the north. I encourage all students living in the northern half of Canada to look at the many programs anddegrees at Yukon University to continue their studiesin some cases this year, virtuallyby remaining in the north. I want to congratulate the staff of Yukon College, who spent the last decade working towards thistransition, and especially the outgoing president, Karen Barnes. I wish her all the best in her retirement. Thank you, merci, mahsi cho and sga senl.The Chair: We'll now go on to Ms. Hutchings.Ms. Gudie Hutchings(Long Range Mountains, Lib.): Thank you, Mr. Chair. First of all, from the Long Range Mountains, I too want to send my condolences to my colleague, Mr. Rogers from BonavistaBurinTrinity, on the tragic loss in St.Lawrence. We're all communities that rely on the sea, and we understand the importance and the tragedy, and the hard work it is being fishers. However, today, colleagues, I want to mention, as my colleague fromacross the way said, that it's national tourism week, so please take the time to get out and thank the tourism and hospitality businesses in your ridings. Most businesses around the world were hit hard by COVID-19.The tourism economy was hit very hard, especially seasonal and rural operations and the 1.8 million people the industry employs. However, this industry knows how to work hard. They know how to partner. They knowhow to look after their employees and their guests. They will find new and innovative opportunities and experiences. They will build new business and they will continue to attract visitors. We know that the domestic andlocal markets will recover first. I know that the operators in my riding are getting ready just for that. It's exciting to speak with them about how they're working on their new normal and how it's going to be developedand implemented here in the Long Range Mountains. Remember too that many of our national parks are opening on June 1, so get out and explore the park in your backyard. I look forward to working with the TourismIndustry Association of Canada, Destination Canada and my colleagues so that when we turn the corner of this pandemic, we are ready to rebuild a stronger tourism economy. Friends, go out and discover the tourismtreasures in your province. They need your support. Tourism matters. Thank you, Mr. Chair.The Chair: Mr.Gourde, you have the floor.Mr. Jacques Gourde (LvisLotbinire, CPC): Thank you, Mr.Chair. Some people werealready too few in number and already burdened with heavy responsibilities even before the COVID-19 crisis occurred. I would like to take this opportunity to express my admiration for the dedication of all the essentialworkers who stepped up in the riding of LvisLotbinire. This crisis has created pressing needs and unprecedented emergencies. Fine men and women committed to human dignity, volunteers, retirees, and you, who havewisely agreed to stay home, you have been part, to varying degrees, of this great equation to minimize the impact of the spread and avoid the worst. The snow has melted, the flowers have arrived. Many children arehappy to be able to expend their energy again; our seniors are being cuddled, with great care, and our essential workers in the riding are still dedicated to the job. I say bravo, thank you and don't give up, even thoughyou have already earned your place in heaven.The Chair: Ms.Bendayan.Ms. Rachel Bendayan (Outremont, Lib.): Thank you, Mr.Chair. My father, who is now retired, was a researcher for over 40years. He was involvedin many medical discoveries. From his laboratories at the Univerist de Montral, he worked with CHUM and the Centre hospitalier universitaire SainteJustine, renowned institutions in Outremont. In Fact, Outremont is fullof professors, scientists and researchers. They are Quebeckers, Canadians, who are at the forefront of discoveries that save and will save lives. Since coming into office, our government has reversed the funding cuts tomedical research and has invested billions in science. Recently, we announced new funding for COVID-19 research for fundamental science and supports for academic researchers. We are working very hard to find avaccine for COVID-19, and our fundamental research is helping us to understand viruses that we don't even know the names of yet. It is this work that will help us stay ahead of the curve rather than flatten it. To all ourCanadian scientists and to my dad, thank you.  Some hon. members: Hear, hear!The Chair: We'll now continue with Ms. Alleslev.Ms. Leona Alleslev (AuroraOak RidgesRichmond Hill, CPC): Mr. Chair, citizens in myriding of AuroraOak RidgesRichmond Hill are showing incredible compassion as they help their families, their friends and even strangers during this difficult period. They are our community champions. The AuroraChamber of Commerce and the Richmond Hill Board of Trade are helping businesses navigate in these difficult times. Organizations like The STEAM Project and Ganesha Temple are making and donating face masks forthose in need. The Aurora Museum & Archives is collecting artifacts to document the pandemic for future generations. The Aurora Farmers' Market is bringing local farmers and businesses to us, but this year with onekey person missing. Our community has lost one of the farmers' market's founders, our jam lady, Jan Freedman. We were deeply saddened by her passing, and she will be sorely missed. My sincere thanks to everyonewho's working to ease the burdens on one another during this crisis. It's not easy, but this too will pass, and we will be stronger for it. In the meantime, stay safe, and let us all do our part to be community champions.Thank you.The Chair: Mr.Deltell, you have the floor.Mr. Grard Deltell (Louis-Saint-Laurent, CPC): Mr.Chair, we all understand that a crisis like the one the world is currently experiencing generates deficits. We also knowthat a deficit is a bill we send to our children and grandchildren, which is why it is important to be prudent, to make wise choices and, above all, to know where we are going. It's a shame that every time we ask thegovernment a question, no minister can tell us how big the Canadian deficit is. We aren't the only ones concerned about the deficit and the government's lack of transparency. In fact, last Tuesday, at a parliamentarycommittee meeting in the Senate, the Parliamentary Budget Officer made some very scathing remarks about the government. He said he was concerned. He said that there had to be a deadline or we'd be headingtoward taxation levels that haven't been seen in generations in this country because there is not a lot of ammunition left before we go into a large structural deficit. I'm not the one saying it; it's the ParliamentaryBudget Officer. For weeks, almost every day, the Prime Minister has been announcing cash injections for Canadians. We agree with that. However, hundreds of billions of dollars are being spent without any idea of thedeficit. That's why we're sounding the alarm and calling on the government to be careful. The Prime Minister needs to know that we can't play Santa Claus every day, because the bills in January come in fast, and theyare high.The Chair: We will now go to Mr. Garrison.Mr. Randall Garrison (EsquimaltSaanichSooke, NDP): Mr. Chair, making sure science informs our health policies is critical during a pandemic. That's why I'm sodisappointed that the Liberals have maintained the ban on blood donations from gay men and trans women. There is no science behind this ban. Not only does it reinforce homophobia and transphobia, it also reducesour blood supply at this critical time. Now we've learned that the ban will also result in rejecting plasma donors, when plasma is so critical in emerging COVID-19 research and treatment. More than 17 countries,"}
{"doc_id":"doc_120","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: So we are here for the concept design meeting . So , we will first start by summarizing the mm {vocalsound} the previous meeting andthe decision we've taken . Uh I will take notes during this meeting so uh that you can uh look at my uh folder to see the summary of this meeting afterwards . So each of you will uh show us the various investigationthey've done during uh previous uh hours . We'll then t take decision in concert and then uh uh we will uh define the nest {disfmarker} next task , to have {disfmarker} to be done before the next meeting . So , lasttime we decided to have a simple interface . We also decided to have a wheel to change channel {disfmarker} previous channel button . Channel digit uh buttons should be uh protected by plastic cover or something forthe remote control to look very simple . We have also button for volume , and to switch on off the T_V_ . We have also uh the lightening feature for the remote control to be easy to find , and for fast development andlow cost we have decided to have no L_C_D_ no voice features . So now uh we will have three presentations . So the conceptual specification by Industrial Designer , the specification of the U_I_ by {disfmarker} orU_I_ {vocalsound}User Interface: Abdul al-Hasred is my name .Project Manager: okay . {vocalsound} And uh the last point is uh trend watching by Market Expert . So maybe we can start with uh industrial design . Sothis is the presentation .Industrial Designer: Uh , I_D_ you want ?Project Manager: Maybe I can switch slide uh on your request .Industrial Designer: Yeah . I only v have three slides , so . I just look at the mm{disfmarker} um just this . On some web pages to find some documentationProject Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: and I think a remote control is , as I s mentioned previously , you just have a a very simple chipand the mm the user interface is just done usually by push button and in our case we are using a um a wheel control . So uh uh I was looking basically for that chip , which is uh very very standard , and uh I just lookedfor the wheel sensor and the standard push button . And um {vocalsound} yeah we can change directly .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: In fact I have the number of that element which is very standard forremote control . The push button are usually extremely cheap , but I just have one problem and this is related with the wheel sensor , which seems to be quite expensive .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface:Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: And I think we if we could just talk about that if we really need a wheel sensor or if we can not {disfmarker} if if we could combine something with the push button .Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: Uh a wheel sensor is fifty time the price of a a a push button .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: But is it a significant price on the whole remote control ?User Interface: Mm .Project Manager:Because we can afford up to twelve Euros for the price of the remote control .Industrial Designer: Yeah . YeahProject Manager: So will will will this with uh including all possible things , so buttons , wheel and the chip ,be uh lower than twelve Euros to produce ?Industrial Designer: I I th {vocalsound} But I don't think that uh we should {disfmarker} We should talk about uh the design of the box also which needs some money .UserInterface: Yeah .Project Manager: OkayUser Interface: Also have to say {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: But {disfmarker}User Interface: Did you receive the email about the voice recognition ?Industrial Designer: Umthat's all {vocalsound}User Interface: No ?Project Manager: You received something {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: yeah . I haven't checUser Interface: Yeah . You we uh an email from the manufacturing divisionthat they have basically a voice recognition chip already developed .Project Manager: Hmm .User Interface: Says {disfmarker} Yeah . It says that ri right now they just use it to uh to record uh answers to particularquestions . But I guess it could be {disfmarker}Project Manager: And could it be adapted ?User Interface: I guess it's possible . I mean instead of recording the answers you can just uh record uh something simpler likea command .Project Manager: Okay and there can uh recognize some commands and stuff ?User Interface: Yeah you reco recognize commands and you can record new commands and stuff , so if they already have itas uh as a chipProject Manager: Okay . Yeah .User Interface: then we we could use it .Project Manager: Okay maybe we can just uh listen to this presentation and then take decision later on {disfmarker} according tothose news .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: Yeah but I think it's yeah {disfmarker} Sorry , I haven't written my personal references . Um {vocalsound} the I I just want tomention the the problem of the the r wheels sensor which is much more expensive than any push button ,Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: and if we could reduce that . We we have already some good thingsuh with um um with the backlight of the push button .User Interface: Mm-hmm . I have a question about that actually {vocalsound} . Um , what is the purpose of the light ?Industrial Designer: Just to to makesomething which is uh slightly more design that uh a squarey box with a rubber {disfmarker}User Interface: Is {disfmarker}Project Manager: You can easily find the button in the dark or so ?User Interface: But{disfmarker} But in th in the dark uh {disfmarker} Yeah but is going to be always turned on , the light ?Project Manager: It will be turned on when the when the user move the remote control I think , no ?UserInterface: But if you move it then you have it , you don't need to find it .Project Manager: Hmm .User Interface: You can see the buttons better , of course .Project Manager: Yeah . Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .ProjectManager: Yeah . True .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Actually .User Interface: But if you move it then you have to have some sensor to {disfmarker} when you move it to detect your movement .Industrial Designer: Assoon as you thought to move the the remote control you have the light .User Interface: Yeah , but you need another sensor for that , right ?Industrial Designer: Yeah . Again .User Interface: Yeah {vocalsound} no it'stoo expensive . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I don't think that this is really expensive , but at the end this is plenty of unexpen eh very cheap devices but uh the bill starts to be {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay .Mm . Extra . Yeah , okay . Mm . Yeah , but I expected also the wheel would be cheap but you tell me that it is very expensive so ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} First of all I was thinking to have a a continuouslightUser Interface: yeah .Industrial Designer: and you w when t you you you you press the on button you have the light on your remote control , when you want to turn off your device {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm. Mm-hmm .Project Manager: But it can be uh battery consuming , no ? To have the light always on ?Industrial Designer: Yeah , a little bit . A little bit .User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: Well we will discuss thatafter maybeIndustrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: OkayProject Manager: the other presentations .User Interface: . So uh my one , it uh should be in the shared folder .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: So . Itwas last time I saw it .Project Manager: And it is .User Interface: Okay . So ,Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: {vocalsound} just move to the next slide . {vocalsound} So basically {vocalsound} want very simple, right ? That's the major idea , as simple as possible .Project Manager: Yeah . Yeah .User Interface: So I just look at some current designs uh on the web , of usually more complicated remote controls . And let's look attwo of them because uh th even though they have many buttons they look quite simple . And in our case we just uh reject the buttons what we don't need and it become even simpler .Project Manager: Yeah .UserInterface: Um . {vocalsound} So .Project Manager: And also does it uh fit well in hand ? Because it was uh th your wrist problem with the usage .User Interface: Yeah . Well this these uh these remotes are quite big , sogo to the next page , so . We have all these buttons as you can see , but most of them , we just need the ones in the middle .Project Manager: Yeah {vocalsound} . Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: So ,from the bottom or whatever is there , uh the uh the numbers and then the top , uh until the ten also , this middle part ,Project Manager: Yeah . Yeah .User Interface: and on the left one is exactly the same . So it'sbasically more or less how we would like it , with a big volume control , big channel control , and mute and power , yeah ?Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: These are the basic thing .Project Manager: So it's onlythe central part .User Interface: So basically , w software we will build will look more or less the same as these two .Project Manager: Yeah . With a maybe a more ergonomic design on on the bottom part .UserInterface: Yeah , if you have , for example {vocalsound} {disfmarker} I think that the volume and the buttons that are there on the top are not very easy to reach with your thumb .Project Manager: Yeah .UserInterface: It could be on the right side , for example .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Yeah . Because we don't have these input buttons and this other stuff that they have . And I think that the plastic cover isnot very good uh idea becauseProject Manager: Okay .User Interface: you open it , it can break , you ca you can do various things .Project Manager: Okay . SUser Interface: Uh you just need to put the channelnumbers somewhere a bit out of the way .Project Manager: Okay . Will be down or {disfmarker}User Interface: So that they're separate a bit ,Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: yeah . Uh and it's easy to press theother {disfmarker} the big buttons , but uh , it's not that difficult to press the the channel buttons either . Mm . Yeah , I think that if you put the cover it will be even more difficult for the user .Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Alright , you won't {disfmarker} yeah . Usually what {disfmarker} I have noticed that people put the plastic cover on things that you normally don't mess with , like buttons for t uh tuning the channelsand stuff like that .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Yeah . That you want to protect a bit . And I think it's uh it's reasonable .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: So , I don't think {disfmarker} Yeah , this isjust the the wheel .Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: We could use the {disfmarker} some wheels can be pushed down , could use the push down of the wheel for the record if we want .Industrial Designer:Mm-hmm .User Interface: Uh so we could just basically use one just wheel and uh user could use just the wheel to do everything with the channels in that case .Project Manager: Yeah . Maybe the wheel will be a{vocalsound} good advantage over our competitors .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Because otherwise it's pretty standard apart the fact that it's very simple . So maybe it's worse to uh to have moreexpense on that's that aspect .Industrial Designer: To s Mm-hmm .User Interface: Yeah , I guess the market researcher will tell us all about that .Project Manager: Okay . So we can move to the {disfmarker} Is thereany question ? For designer of user interface ? {vocalsound} or we can move to the next part , maybe , and discuss afterwards ? Okay .Marketing: Okay , I can go ?Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Can I ?{vocalsound} So now the recent investigation we we have done fo of the remote control um . So , the most important aspect for remote controls is to be fancy look and feel and not current functional look and feel . Andum the second aspect is uh that the remote control should be uh technological innovative .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound} And the third most important aspect is to to {disfmarker} is that the coremote control should be easy to use . So , are things we are we have uh speak about before .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah . And um {disfmarker} so you you can go{disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: after . And there is a fashion watchers in Paris and Milan that have detected the following trends , uh fruits and vegetables will be the most important theme for clothes ,shoes , and furnitures . {vocalsound} So , maybe if our {vocalsound} remote control have to be a fruit form or vegetable form {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: something like that , or{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I support an apple .Marketing: {vocalsound} And the mm the material is expected to be spongy .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Uh I don't know which material{vocalsound} can be spongy ,Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: and if you {disfmarker}Project Manager: This is good also for {disfmarker}User Interface: Well , wou wou I think we can certainly just put theelectronics in a spongy thing ,Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: it it would work , right ?Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: I think itis good also f to have a spongy material , yeah .User Interface: You can throw it to the television .Project Manager: Yeah , because it's robust .Marketing: Okay {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah . Me too.Marketing: It's robust , yeah .User Interface: Hey that's a cool one . We could say that if you throw it , you have a sensor , and you throw it and hits the television and turns it off .Project Manager:{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: When it d uh takes a shock .Project Manager: YeahMarketing: {vocalsound} Not good .Project Manager: uh sorry ?Industrial Designer: Ah it's okay . I know thatthey do that for alarm clock also .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: An and and uh this uh you can yeah you can say that . You ca uh you can go uh beforeProject Manager: No . Yeah . Before ?Marketing: , before , yes .And you know here the more iz important aspect is the fancy look and feel , after is uh technological innovative , and after the easy to use .Project Manager: Yeah . Yeah . Yeah . I think it's innovative to use the mm thewheel because I think no one else has .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah that's why {disfmarker}Project Manager: Has it ?Marketing: Yeah that's why I think we have to keep that if it's possible .ProjectManager: Yeah . I think it's {disfmarker} it makes it both easy and both innos innovative .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Innovative . Mm .Project Manager: So I think it's a good aspect and it should be kept.User Interface: How do we make it look cool is the question .Project Manager: Cool , fancy ?User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: We have to make it l look like a fruit or vegetable . {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Maybe uh um {vocalsound} a colour that remember some fruit uh , things like that .Industrial Designer: What about um {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Mm . Oh, colour , yeah .User Interface: Well the obvious thing is a banana , I guess .Marketing: Oh {disfmarker} i i {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Maybe yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Ithought about a a pear , for example . You know the pear , is like that and it's it's easy to to have in in handProject Manager: Yeah , and it's ergonomic as well .Marketing: and uh {disfmarker} Yeah .Project Manager: Apear .User Interface: The banana is also ergonomic .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah . Maybe pear yeah or something like that .Marketing: Or a fruit like that . I dunno .Project Manager: Yeah . We candiscuss that uh . D D Is is there anything you want to add ?User Interface: Is there any fruit that is spongy ?Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} I don't think so . I think we we canhave like yeah a pear is good , fit well , or banana as you told .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Something like that .Industrial Designer: And for maybe look and feel , whatabout a a piece of ice , with blue L_E_D_ inside ?Project Manager: But that's not in the trend . {vocalsound} .User Interface: You can make it um {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: The trend isspongy , and vegetable fruits .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Yeah . {vocalsound}User Interface: It's not hard , the metal .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} I think p spongy is good because it it willbe robust as well .Industrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Plastic . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yep .Project Manager: So , I think we can keep the wheel because it's uheasy , it's innovative , even if the cost is a bit higher ,Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: and we also have to find a , so , a fruit like pear or banana wit uh any others idea you have . What kind of fr fruit wouldyou like to to control your T_V_ with ? {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: OdiIndustrial Designer: Banana I think , it's a nice idea .Project Manager: Banana is also yellow so youyou can't lost your remote control then .Industrial Designer: Because {disfmarker} But {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: You y you don't use thebanana when the banana is curving like that ,User Interface: Two of the button , yeah .Industrial Designer: but when the banana is curving like that , with the wheel on the top and to control ,User Interface: Yeah .Yeah .Industrial Designer: and here you have a a push button to {disfmarker}Marketing: But you don't have {disfmarker}Project Manager: I think it's a good idea , yeah .User Interface: Yeah so you can just have uhjust have this curve , yeah , and you move uh your hand here to press the buttons and then you move uh on the other side .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: So you can have it on ontwo sides and it'll be cool ,Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: no ?Project Manager: I think it's a good design and it's innovative as well then . Maybe we can keep the banana . And it will be very easy to find.Industrial Designer: And everybody knows what is a banana .User Interface: You can put also vibrator inside .Industrial Designer: Basically .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .Industrial Designer: If you if you start withuh fancy fruits and fra s and thaUser Interface: Ah-ha . You can also take into account the fact that the banana fits with the colour scheme of our company .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Oh , yeah{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah it's really uh really a good point .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound} I hope the students of management die ,Marketing: {vocalsound}UserInterface: but anyway . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Now who are recording this meeting ?Project Manager: I think it {disfmarker} So {disfmarker} One second . So we have to take somedecision on this aspect . So , uh so for {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: sorry , for uh component , so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: we have to think aboutthose aspects , sorry .Industrial Designer: So we will just use a a standard battery ?Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: And uh the chip we {disfmarker} chip imprint we know exactly which one we are going touse . Uh what do you mean by case ?Project Manager: I think it's the box that should be spongy , banana's shape .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Uh I mean for me if we use a a spongy banana case , doesn't matter.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I just want to have so something to prin to to fix my my components onto that box , and that's it .User Interface: The only th Yeah . Y Yeah that can be in inside th inthe structure .Industrial Designer: Yeah yeah . Yeah .User Interface: But uh the thing is that the buttons and the wheel have to be {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Spongy also .User Interface: I mean if it's spongythen the buttons and the wheel have to {disfmarker} I mean if it's spongy then it's going to move , right ? So , it's going to be bend a lot .Project Manager: But {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Oh no I think it'spossible .User Interface: So if we try to push the buttons , it {disfmarker}Project Manager: No the button would be {disfmarker}User Interface: You think it's possible ?Project Manager: In fact it it should be somethingodd shaped , with a spongy cover .Industrial Designer: Yeah . YeahUser Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: . This is uh like the {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay odd shape with spongy"}
{"doc_id":"doc_121","qid":"","text":"Grad A: OK , this is one channel . Can you uh , say your name and talk into your mike one at a time ?PhD C: This is Eric on channel three , I believe .Grad A: OK . Uh , I don't think it 's on there , Jane .Undergrad D:Tasting one two three , tasting .Postdoc E: OK , this is Jane on channel five .Grad A: Uh , I still don't see you Jane .Postdoc E: Oh , darn , what am I doing wrong ?Undergrad D: Can you see me on channel four ? Really?Grad A: Yeah , I sUndergrad D: My lucky day .Postdoc E: Uh , screen no , {disfmarker} it is , oh , maybe it just warmed up ?Grad A: No .Postdoc E: Oh , darn , can you can't see channel five yet ?Grad A: Uh , well , themike isn't close enough to your mouth , so .Postdoc E: Oh , this would be k OK , is that better ?Grad A: S uh , try speaking loudly ,Undergrad D: I like the high quality labelling .Grad A: so ,Postdoc E: Hello ,Grad A: OK ,good .Undergrad D: David , can we borrow your labelling machine to improve the quality of the labelling a little bit here ?Postdoc E: hello . Alright .Grad A: Thank you .PhD B: One tUndergrad D: How {disfmarker} howmany are there , one to five ?PhD B: One five , yeah .Undergrad D: Yeah , please .Postdoc E: Would you like to join the meeting ?Grad A: Well , we don't wanna renumber them ,Postdoc E: I bet {disfmarker}Grad A:cuz we 've already have like , forms filled out with the numbers on them . So , let 's keep the same numbers on them .PhD B: Yeah , OK , that 's a good idea .Grad A: OK , Dan , are you on ?PhD B: I 'm on {disfmarker}I 'm on two and I should be on .Grad A: Good .PhD B: Yeah .Undergrad D: Want to join the meeting , Dave ? Do we {disfmarker} do {disfmarker} do we have a spare , uh {disfmarker}Grad A: And I 'm getting lots ofresponses on different ones , so I assume {pause} the various and assorted P Z Ms are on .Undergrad D: We ' r we 're {disfmarker} we ' r This is {disfmarker} this {disfmarker} this is a meeting meeting .Postdoc E:This is abou we 're {disfmarker} we 're mainly being taped but we 're gonna talk about , uh , transcription for the m future meeting meetings .Grad A: Stuff . Yeah , this is not something you need to attend . So.Postdoc E: Yeah . e OK .PhD C: You 're always having one of those days , Dave .Postdoc E: Y you 'd be welcome .Grad A: Besides , I don't want anyone who has a weird accent .Postdoc E: You 'd be welcome .Grad A:Right , Dan ?Undergrad D: So , I don't understand if it 's neck mounted you don't get very good performance .PhD C: It 's not neck mounted . It 's supposed to be h head mounted .Undergrad D: Yeah . It {disfmarker}it should be head mounted . Right ?Grad A: Well , then put it on your head .PhD B: I don't know .PhD C: Right .Grad A: What are you doing ?Undergrad D: Cuz when you do this , you can {disfmarker} Rouww - Rouww.Postdoc E: Why didn't I {disfmarker} you were saying that but I could hear you really well on the {disfmarker} on the transcription {disfmarker} on the , uh , tape .Grad A: Well , I m I would prefer that people wore iton their headPhD B: I {disfmarker} I don't know .PhD C: iGrad A: but they were complaining about it . Because it 's not {disfmarker} it doesn't go over the ears .Undergrad D: Why ?Postdoc E: It 's badly designed.Grad A: It 's very badly designed so it 's {disfmarker}PhD B: It 's very badly designed ?Undergrad D: What do you mean it doesn't go over the ears ?PhD B: Why ? It 's not s It 's not supposed to cover up your ears.Grad A: Yeah but , there 's nowhere to put the pad so it 's comfortable .PhD B: I mean , it 's only badly {disfmarker}Postdoc E: So that 's what you 're d He 's got it on his temples so it cuts off his circulation .PhD B: Oh, that 's strange .PhD C: Yeah , that 's {disfmarker} that 's what I have .Grad A: And it feels so good that way .PhD C: It feels so good when I stop .Grad A: So I {disfmarker} I again would like to do some digits.Undergrad D: Somebody wanna {disfmarker}Postdoc E: Try it .Grad A: Um .Undergrad D: Somebody wanna close the door ?Grad A: Sure .PhD B: OK .Postdoc E: We could do it with noise .Grad A: So let me{disfmarker}PhD C: You 're always doing digits .Grad A: Well , you know , I 'm just that sort of {disfmarker} digit - y g sorta guy . OK . So this is Adam .Postdoc E: Uh , this is the same one I had before .Grad A: Idoubt it .PhD B: It 's still the same words .Grad A: I think we 're session four by the way . Or m it might be five .Undergrad D: Psss ! Oh , that 's good .Postdoc E: NoGrad A: I didn't bring my previous thing .PhD B: Wedidn't {disfmarker}Postdoc E: Now , just to be sure , the numbers on the back , this is the channel ?PhD B: That 's the microphone number .Postdoc E: That 's the microphone number .Grad A: Yeah , d leave thechannel blank .Postdoc E: Uh - oh . OK , good .Undergrad D: But number has to be {disfmarker} ? So we have to look up the number .Postdoc E: Five {disfmarker}Grad A: Right .Undergrad D: OK , good .Postdoc E:Good . OK . Well , this is Jane , on mike number five . Um . I just start ? Do I need to say anything more ?Grad A: Uh , transcript number .PhD B: Transcript number {disfmarker}PhD C: OK , this is Eric on microphonenumber three ,Undergrad D: This is Beck on mike four .Grad A: Thanks . Should I turn off the VU meter Dan ? Do you think that makes any difference ?PhD B: Oh , God . No , let me do it .Grad A: Why ? Are you gonnado something other than hit \" quit \" ?PhD B: No , but I 'm gonna look at the uh , logs as well .Grad A: Oh . Should have done it before .Postdoc E: Uh , you said turn off the what ?Grad A: The VU meter which tells youwhat the levels on the various mikes are and there was one hypothesis that perhaps that {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the act of recording the VU meter was one of the things that contributed to the errors .Postdoc E: Oh. Oh , I see .Undergrad D: Yeah , but Eric , uh , you didn't think that was a reasonable hypothesis , right ?Postdoc E: I See .Grad A: That was me ,Undergrad D: Oh , I 'm sorry yGrad A: I thought that was{disfmarker}Undergrad D: That was malarkey .Grad A: Well , the only reason that could be is if the driver has a bug . Right ? Because the machine just isn't very heavily loaded .Undergrad D: No chance of that .GradA: No chance of that . Just because it 's beta . Look OK ?PhD B: Yeah , there {disfmarker} there {disfmarker} there was {disfmarker} there was a {disfmarker} there was a bug . There was a glitch last time we ran.Undergrad D: Are - are yo are you recording where the table mikes are by the way ?PhD B: No .Undergrad D: Do you know which channels {disfmarker}Grad A: Yeah , we usually do that .PhD B: No , we don't .Grad A:Yeah .PhD B: But we {disfmarker} we ought to st we ought to standardize .Undergrad D: Why not ?PhD B: I think , {vocalsound} uh , I s I spoke to somebody , Morgan , {comment} about that . I think {disfmarker} Ithink we should put mar Well , no , w we can do that .Undergrad D: Why don't you just do this ?Grad A: I mean , that 's what we 've done before .PhD B: I know what they {disfmarker} they 're {disfmarker} they 'refour , three , two , one . In order now .Undergrad D: Four .PhD B: Three , two , {vocalsound} and one .Undergrad D: Three .PhD B: But I think {disfmarker} I think we should put them in standard positions . I think weshould make little marks on the table top .Grad A: Which means we need to move this thing , and sorta decide how we 're actually going to do things .PhD B: So that we can put them {disfmarker}Postdoc E: Oh , OK.PhD B: I guess that 's the point .Grad A: So .PhD B: It 'll be a lot easier if we have a {disfmarker} if we have them permanently in place or something like that .Grad A: Right .Postdoc E: I do wish there were big boomscoming down from the ceiling .PhD B: You do ?Postdoc E: Yeah .PhD C: Would it make you feel more important ?Grad A: Mmm .Postdoc E: Yeah , yeah , yeah .PhD C: I see .Undergrad D: Wait till the projector getsinstalled .Postdoc E: You know .Grad A: That 'll work .Postdoc E: Oh , that 'll be good .Grad A: That 'll work .PhD B: Oh , gosh .Undergrad D: Cuz it 's gonna hang down , make noise .Postdoc E: OK .PhD B: When 's itgonna be installed ?Postdoc E: OK .Undergrad D: Well , {vocalsound} it depends onPhD B: I see .Undergrad D: Is this b is this being recorded ?Grad A: That 's right .Undergrad D: Uh , I think Lila actually is almostgetting r pretty close to even getting ready to put out the purchase order .PhD B: OK . Cool .Undergrad D: I handed it off to her about a month ago .PhD B: I see .Grad A: OK , so , topic of this meeting is I wanna talk alittle bit about transcription . Um , I 've looked a little bit into commercial transcription services and Jane has been working on doing transcription . Uh , and so we wan wanna decide what we 're gonna do with that andthen get an update on the electronics , and then , uh , maybe also talk a little bit about some infrastructure and tools , and so on . Um , you know , eventually we 're probably gonna wanna distribute this thing and weshould decide how we 're gonna {disfmarker} how we 're gonna handle some of these factors . So .PhD B: Distribute what ?Grad A: Hmm ?PhD B: The data ?Grad A: Right . Right . I mean , so we 're {disfmarker} we're collecting a corpus and I think it 's gonna be generally useful . I mean , it seems like it 's not a corpus which is {disfmarker} uh , has been done before . And so I think people will be interested in having {disfmarker}having it ,PhD B: Oh .Grad A: and so we will {disfmarker}Undergrad D: u Using , like , audio D V Ds or something like that ?Grad A: Excuse me ?PhD B: Yes .Undergrad D: Audio D VGrad A: Well , or something . Yeah ,audio D V C Ds ,Undergrad D: Or tGrad A: you know .Undergrad D: Yeah . tapes .Grad A: And {disfmarker} and so how we do we distribute the transcripts , how do we distribute the audio files , how do we{disfmarker} how do we just do all that infrastructure ?PhD C: Well , I think {disfmarker} I mean , for that particular issue ther there are known sources where people go to {disfmarker} to find these kind of things likethe LDC for instance .Postdoc E: Yeah ,Grad A: Right , but {disfmarker} but so should we do it in the same format as LDCPostdoc E: that 's right .Grad A: and what does that mean to what we 've done already ?PhD B:Right . The {disfmarker} It 's not so much the actu The logistics of distribution are secondary to {pause} preparing the data in a suitable form for distribution .PhD C: Right .Grad A: Right . So , uh , as it is , it 's sort ofa {pause} ad - hoc combination of stuff Dan set and stuff I set up , which we may wanna make a little more formal . So .PhD B: And the other thing is that , um , University of Washington may want to start recordingmeetings as well ,Grad A: Right .PhD B: in which case w w we 'll have to decide what we 've actually got so that we can give them a copy .Grad A: That 's right .Undergrad D: A field trip .Grad A: Yeah . I was actuallythinking I wouldn't mind spending the summer up there . That would be kind of fun .PhD B: Oh , really ?Grad A: Yeah . Visit my friends and spend some time {disfmarker}PhD B: Different for you . Yes .Grad A: Well ,and then also I have a bunch of stuff for doing this digits . So I have a bunch of scripts with X Waves , and some Perl scripts , and other things that make it really easy to extract out {vocalsound} and align where thedigits are . And if U d UW 's going to do the same thing I think it 's worth while for them to do these digits tasks as well .Undergrad D: Mm - hmm .Grad A: And what I 've done is pretty ad - hoc , um , so we mightwanna change it over to something a little more standard .PhD C: Hmm .Grad A: You know , STM files , or XML , or something .Undergrad D: An - and there 's interest up there ?Grad A: What 's that ?Undergrad D:There 's interest up there ?Grad A: Well they {disfmarker} they certainly wanna collect more data . And so they 're applying , I think I B Is that right ? Something like that .PhD B: I don't know .Grad A: Um , for somemore money to do more data . So we were planning to do like thirty or forty hours worth of meetings . They wanna do an additional hundred or so hours . So , they want a very large data set . Um , but of course we 'renot gonna do that if we don't get money . So .PhD B: I see .Grad A: And I would like that just to get a disjoint speaker set and a disjoint room . I mean , one of the things Morgan and I were talking about is we 'regonna get to know this room really well ,PhD C: Mm - hmm .Grad A: the {disfmarker} the acoustics of this room .PhD B: All about that .Undergrad D: Including the fan .Grad A: Including the fan .Undergrad D: Did younotice the fan difference ?PhD B: Oh , now you 've touched the fan control , now all our data 's gonna be {disfmarker}Undergrad D: Hear the difference ?Grad A: Oh , it 's enormous .PhD B: Yeah , it 's great .Postdoc E:Oh , that 's better .Undergrad D: Do you wanna leave it off or not ?Postdoc E: That 's better .Grad A: All the others have been on .PhD B: That 's {disfmarker}Undergrad D: Yeah , the {disfmarker} You sure ?PhD B: Oh, yeah .Grad A: y AbsolutPhD B: Absolutely .Undergrad D: You {disfmarker} {vocalsound} You think that {disfmarker}Grad A: Yeah .Undergrad D: things after the f then This fan 's wired backwards by the way . Uh , Ithink this is high speed here .Postdoc E: Yeah , it 's noticeable .Undergrad D: Well , not clear .PhD B: Well it 's {disfmarker} well like {vocalsound} \" low \" is mid {disfmarker} mid - scale .Undergrad D: Maybe it{disfmarker} Maybe it isn't .PhD B: So it could be {vocalsound} that it 's not actually wired backwardsUndergrad D: That 's right .PhD B: it 's just that ambiguous .Undergrad D: I was wondering also , Get ready .{comment} whether the lights made any noise .Postdoc E: Uh - huh .Grad A: There 's definitely {disfmarker} Yep .PhD B: Oh , they do .PhD C: Yeah , a little bit .PhD B: Yeah .Grad A: High pitch hum . Wow .UndergradD: So , {vocalsound} do our meetings in the dark with no air conditioning in the future .Grad A: Yeah , just get a variety .Postdoc E: I think candles would be nice if they don't make noise .Grad A: They 're very good.PhD B: Oh , yeah .PhD C: It would {disfmarker} you know , it would real really mean that we should do short meetings when you {vocalsound} turn off the {disfmarker} {comment} turn off the air conditioning ,GradA: Carbon monoxide poisoning ?Undergrad D: Short meetings , that 's right . Or {disfmarker} Yeah , sort of {comment} r rPhD C: got to finish this meeting .Undergrad D: Tear t {pause} Tear your clothing off to staycool .PhD C: That 's right .Undergrad D: Actually , the a th air {disfmarker} the air conditioning 's still working , that 's just an auxiliary fan .PhD C: Right , I see .Grad A: SoPhD C: So , um , in addition to this issueabout the UW stuff there was announced today , uh , via the LDC , um , a corpus from I believe Santa Barbara .Postdoc E: Yeah , I saw it . I 've been watching for that corpus .PhD C: Um , of general spoken English.Postdoc E: Yeah . Yep .PhD C: And I don't know exactly how they recorded it but apparently there 's a lot of different {vocalsound} styles of speech and what not .Grad A: Mm - hmm .PhD C: And {disfmarker}PostdocE: They had people come in to a certain degree and they {disfmarker} and they have DAT recorders .PhD C: I see . So it is sort of far field stuff . Right ?Postdoc E: I {disfmarker} I assume so , actually , I hadn'tthought about that . Unless they added close field later on but , um , I 've listened to some of those data and I , um , I 've been {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I was actually on the advisory board for when they set theproject up .Grad A: Mm - hmm .PhD C: Oh , OK .PhD B: What 's it sound like ?Postdoc E: I 'm glad to see that it got released .Grad A: Yeah , I {disfmarker} I wish {disfmarker}Postdoc E: So it it 's a very nice thing.Grad A: I wish we had someone here working on adaptationPhD C: SGrad A: because it would nice to be able to take that stuff and adapt it to a meeting setting . You know {disfmarker}PhD C: But it may be{disfmarker} it may be useful in {disfmarker}Postdoc E: How do you mean {disfmarker} do you mean mechanical adaptation or {disfmarker}Grad A: No , software , to adapt the speech recognition .Postdoc E: OK .PhDC: Well , what I was thinking is it may be useful in transcribing , if it 's far field stuff ,Grad A: Mm - hmm .PhD C: right ? In doing , um , some of our first automatic speech recognition models , it may be useful to havethat kind of dataPostdoc E: Great idea .PhD C: because that 's very different than any kind of data that we have so far .Grad A: That 's true .Postdoc E: And {disfmarker} and their recording conditions are really clean . Imean , I 've {disfmarker} I 've heard {disfmarker} I 've listened to the data .Grad A: Well that 's not good , right ?PhD C: That 's {disfmarker} that 's not great .Postdoc E: It sounds {disfmarker}Undergrad D:TrPostdoc E: well but what I mean is that , um {disfmarker}Undergrad D: But far field means great distance ? I mean {disfmarker}Grad A: Just these .Undergrad D: Not head mounted ?PhD B: Yeah .Undergrad D: Andso that 's why they 're getting away with just two channels or something , or are they using multiple DATs ?Postdoc E: Um , oh , good question and I can't ans answer it .Grad A: Well we can look into it .Postdoc E: Idon't know .PhD C: No , and their web {disfmarker} their web page didn't answer it either . So I 'm , I uh , was thinking that we should contact them .Postdoc E: OK .PhD C: So it 's {disfmarker} that 's sort of a beside- the - point point . But .Grad A: So we can get that just with , uh , media costs ,Undergrad D: Still a point .PhD C: Right .Grad A: is that right ?PhD C: Uh , in fact we get it for freeGrad A: Oh .PhD C: cuz they 'redistributing it through the LDC .Grad A: Great .Postdoc E: Yep .Grad A: So that would be {disfmarker} yeah , that would be something to look into . So .PhD C: So , I can {disfmarker} I can actually arrange for it toarrive in short order if we 're {disfmarker}Postdoc E: The other thing too is from {disfmarker} from a {disfmarker}Grad A: Well , it 's silly to do unless we 're gonna have someone to work on it , so maybe we need tothink about it a little bit .PhD C: Huh .Postdoc E: The other thing too is that their their jus their transcription format is really nice and simple in {disfmarker} in the discourse domain . But they also mentioned that theyhave it time aligned . I mean , I s I {disfmarker} I saw that write - up .PhD C: Yeah . Maybe we should {disfmarker} maybe we should get a copy of it just to see what they didPhD B: Yeah , absolutely .Grad A: Yeah.PhD C: so {disfmarker} so that we can {disfmarker} we can compare .Postdoc E: It 's very nice .Grad A: OK , why don't you go ahead and do that then Eric ?PhD B: Absolutely .PhD C: Alright , I 'll do that . I can'tremember the name of the corpus . It 's Corps - S {disfmarker}Postdoc E: CSAE .PhD C: S {disfmarker}Postdoc E: Corpus of Spoken American English .PhD C: Right , OK .Postdoc E: Yeah , sp I 've been {disfmarker} Iwas really pleased to see that . I knew that they {disfmarker} {vocalsound} they had had some funding problems in completing itPhD B: Uh - huh .PhD C: Yeah .Postdoc E: but , um ,PhD C: Well they 're{disfmarker}Postdoc E: this is clever .PhD C: Apparently this was like phase onePostdoc E: Got it through the LDC .PhD C: and the there 's still more that they 're gonna do apparently or something like that unless ofcourse they have funding issuesPostdoc E: Great . Great .PhD C: and then then it ma they may not do phase two but {vocalsound} from all the web documentation it looked like , \" oh , this is phase one \" , whateverthat means .Postdoc E: Super . Super . Great . Yeah , that {disfmarker} I mean , they 're really well respected in the linguistics d side too and the discourse area ,PhD C: OK .Postdoc E: and {disfmarker} So this is avery good corpus .PhD C: But , it uh it would also maybe help be helpful for Liz , if she wanted to start working on some discourse issues , you know , looking at some of this data and then ,Grad A: Right .PhD C: youknow {disfmarker} So when she gets here maybe that might be a good thing for her .Grad A: Actually , that 's another thing I was thinking about is that maybe Jane should talk to Liz , to see if there are anytranscription issues related to discourse that she needs to get marked .Postdoc E: OK .PhD C: Maybe we should have a big meeting meeting .PhD B: Sure , of course .Undergrad D: That would be a meeting meetingmeeting ?Grad A: A meeting meeting meeting .PhD C: Yeah .Grad A: Well this is the meeting about the meeting meeting meeting . So .PhD C: Oh .Grad A: Um .PhD C: Right . But maybe we should , uh find some daythat Liz {disfmarker} uh , Liz and Andreas seem to be around more often .Grad A: Mm - hmm .PhD C: So maybe we should find a day when they 're gonna be here and {disfmarker} and Morgan 's gonna be here , andwe can meet , at least this subgroup . I mean , not necessarily have the U - dub people down .Grad A: Well , I was even thinking that maybe we need to at least ping the U - dub {disfmarker} to see {disfmarker}PhD C:"}
{"doc_id":"doc_122","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Good morning . Sorry ? Yeah , busy job . Good morning . So {disfmarker} Oh , good morning everyone .User Interface: Good morning .Industrial Designer: Good morning .Project Manager: I'd uh liketo welcome you to our first meeting . I've prepared a little presentation . My name is {gap} and uh I hope you will introduce yourself uh in a few minutes , as will I . Um I'm the Project Manager of this project , and uh ,well I will tell you {gap} on what actually is the project . This is uh the agenda for our first meeting . Um this is the opening , then we will get {disfmarker} {gap} I will hope we will get acquainted to each other . We'lldo a little tool training with these two things . We'll take a look at the project plan . Uh there will be time for discussion . Actually we have to discuss because we have to create a product . And then we will close thissession . Um but first of all we I'd like to uh introduce you to this room . Um as you probably have noticed there are little black uh fields on the table . Um you have to put your laptop exactly in that field so the littlecameras can see your face . Um there are camerasIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: everywhere around the room especially here for your face , of course , and this isn't a pie , it's a a set ofmicrophonesIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: and there are microphones here also . But please uh don't be afraid of them .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: They won't hurt you . Umwell uhUser Interface: Well {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I said I'm the Project Manager and uh I'm hoping uh for a good project and uh I'd like to hear uh who you are and what yourfunctions are uh on this project . Let's start with the ladies {vocalsound} {vocalsound} .User Interface: Well uh I'm uh {gap} and my uh function is User Interface Design , I think .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}UserInterface: {vocalsound} So uh that's me .Industrial Designer: Okay , uh I'm {gap} uh I'm the Industrial Designer and I uh hope to uh {disfmarker} look forward to uh a very uh pleasing uh end of this uh project.Project Manager: Okay , so I .User Interface: Me too .Marketing: My name's {gap} . I'm uh {vocalsound} Marketing Expert . {vocalsound} My job is in the company to promote company or promote products to thecustomers . So I also h hope we have a pleasant uh working with uh with each other .Project Manager: Okay , well we have some expertise from uh different pieces of the of the company .User Interface:{vocalsound}Project Manager: That's good . Um well I said uh we're working on a project and the aim for the project is to to create a {disfmarker} to design a new remote control which uh has to be original , trendyand of course , user friendly . {vocalsound} And uh I hope we have the expertise to create such a project {disfmarker} such a product . Um the way we hope to achieve that is uh the following methods . It consists ofthree phases , namely the functional design , conceptual design and detailed design . As you can see , all of these phases consists of two parts , namely individual work part and a meeting where we will discuss uh ourwork so far . Okay . But first I will uh tell you something about the tools we have here . I already talked about the cameras and microphones , but they are not of uh much use to us . Uh we will have to take advantageof these two things . They are smart boards . As you can see , you can give a presentation on them . And uh this one here is a white board . I will uh instruct you about that soon . Um as you also noticed uh thispresentation document is in our uh project folder and every document you put in this folder uh is uh it is possible to show that here in our meeting room . Um and yeah there are available on both smart boards but Ithink we will uh mainly use this one for the documents in the shared folder . As you can see , this is the same tool bar uh as is located here . Um the most functions uh we will use will be to to add a new page , um uh togo back and forward between pages , and of course uh to save it every now and then . Um and this is the pen with which you can draw on the board , for instance like this if everything's okay ,User Interface:{vocalsound}Project Manager: but I first have to put it on the pen , you see I'm new to it too .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um and then you can write things like test or whatever you want .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}User Interface: Oh .Project Manager: As you can see you have to move it a little bit slow , it's not such a fast board , it's a smart board but also a slow board .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh but you can write things and of course you can also , when you click here , uh erase things , so we have uh est left . And um you can also delete an entirepage , but we ask you not to do that . Just simply create a new one and uh start all over because we want to save all the results . Um does everyone understand thisUser Interface: {vocalsound} So we can't eraseanything .Project Manager: nice application ?Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Well you can erase it with the eraser , but uh you shouldn't delete an entire page , but just create a newblank one .User Interface: Right .Marketing: SProject Manager: I will delete this one now because we don't use it yet .User Interface: Alright .Project Manager: But you can of course erase when you make a mistake ,but don't uh delete entire pages . And you can also um let's see I think it's here uh change the uh colour of your pen , for instance take a blue one and uh change the line width like to five . Um that's what you will needfor our first exercise , because I'm uh going to ask you to draw your favourite animal .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: It's also to gets to know each other because umI'm asking three things , uh for that uh drawing ,Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: to do it on a blank sheet , with different colours and I just showed you how to pick a colour , and also with different penwidths which I also showed you . Um and a favourite characteristic can be just uh one word . Well I'm not very good at drawing , but I will uh go first and um try to draw {disfmarker}User Interface:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Or maybe you should guess what I'm drawing , eh . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Good .User Interface: {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: Hmm .Marketing: {gap} No .User Interface: It's a sheep . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: DinosIndustrial Designer: Seal , a seal .{vocalsound}Marketing: Dinosaur .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Beaver .User Interface: {gap} A beaver . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: A be {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well it uhUser Interface: It'sweird . {vocalsound}Project Manager: could be everything .Industrial Designer: Mm . With a tail and a mouth .Project Manager: Maybe when I put onUser Interface: It has wings ?Marketing: Turtle .Project Manager:this thing it could be a turtle , or a snail ,Industrial Designer: Snail . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Well the snail doesn't have legs .Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: But a turtle has . And thoseare slow . And I hope our project group will not be slow ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: but we will uh work to a good resultIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: and do it uh as fast aswe can . Okay , time for another animal . Would you like to go next ?User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} No problem . No problem .Industrial Designer: Sure .User Interface: {vocalsound} Oh right.Marketing: Mm . It was four months ?User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Nice , okay .User Interface: Well . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} The hell .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound} To make it a little bit easier . {gap}User Interface: {vocalsound} It's a giraffe .Industrial Designer: Make that cute . {vocalsound}User Interface: Or a dinosaur . {vocalsound}Marketing: No , it's a giraffe. 'Kay .User Interface: {gap}Marketing: I think it's easy to r uh to recognise as a giraffe .User Interface: Yes . Giraffe .Industrial Designer: {gap}Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah , thefavourite charis characteristic is that the long neck , {vocalsound} it can reach everything . And I hope I can also reach a lot with this project . So that's my favourite animal .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Anythingelse you need to know ?Project Manager: Could you write the words , uh underneath it ? Or more words .Marketing: Oh , uh {gap}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Tall . {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: Tall . So ,User Interface: Should I uh {disfmarker}Marketing: 'kay .User Interface: Alright .Marketing: {gap}User Interface: So I can draw , but uh {disfmarker} Uh . Well . {vocalsound} Oh.Industrial Designer: B {vocalsound}Marketing: It's a mouse .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Bunny rabbit . {vocalsound}Marketing: A bunny rabbit . {vocalsound}User Interface: {gap} Oh wrongone . Uh . {gap}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Well uhIndustrial Designer: {gap}User Interface: you can guess what it is , I hope . {vocalsound}Marketing:Uh-huh . No problem .Project Manager: Little rabbits .User Interface: It's a rabbit .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} And uh well uh it's uh quick , I guess . That's uh my uh favourite animal. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay , thank you .Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: And our final drawing .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Bob Ross .User Interface: A dolphin . {vocalsound}ProjectManager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay , um .Marketing: Dolphin .Industrial Designer: Uh I uh draw I I've drawn a dolphin because of its intelligence .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Right .Industrial Designer: One of the most intelligent uhProject Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: animals in our world .User Interface: Well.Marketing: {gap}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah intelligent .User Interface: With an E_ .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I've I've uh {disfmarker}User Interface:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Eraser .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: You can try out the eraser now . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Pen . Well not perfect , butokay .Project Manager: Okay , wellUser Interface: {gap}Project Manager: thank you very much . I can see we have some uh drawing talent uh in this group ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound} Not really . {vocalsound}Project Manager: huh ? Well , nice animals , nice words . Sounds good . Um back to business , back to the money part . Um from the finance department I have learned that weare aiming for a selling price of twenty five Euros . And we're hoping for a aim of fifty million Euros and uh we are hoping to achieve that uh by aiming for an international market . And the production cost will be twelveEuro fifty max . Okay , well it's time uh for some discussion . I've wrote down some examples here of what we can can speak about . Uh what's your experience with remote controls , um what kind of ideas do you haveto design a new remote control , maybe for which market segments should we aim , or should we aim for all segments . Uh well actually I'd like to hand the word uh back to you . What's your experience with remotecontrol ?User Interface: {gap} I always lose them .Industrial Designer: A lot of buttons . And you always lose them .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yes .Industrial Designer: A lot of buttons which youdon't useUser Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: or who you don't useMarketing: Complex .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Complex .User Interface: {gap}Industrial Designer:Not user friendly .User Interface: {gap} search for the buttons , which one is whichMarketing: No .User Interface: and uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {gap}Marketing: No .Industrial Designer: {gap}Marketing:Boring .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Boring , it's not fun to use a remote .Industrial Designer: {gap}Marketing: No .Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: Black , all black .User Interface: Well .ProjectManager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Black colours .Marketing: So , yeah .Project Manager: Well maybe we should try to make it fun .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: {gap} They use batteries and {gap}batteries uh and poor signal .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Uh .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: Perhaps that you have a lot of road remotes r road con remote controls .Marketing: The the angle youhave to use . You had different remote controls for different devices .Industrial Designer: Yeah , different remote controls ,User Interface: {vocalsound} Yes ,Industrial Designer: yeah .User Interface: perhaps you canintegrate them or something .Marketing: Yes .Industrial Designer: Uh for the use of different uh devices {vocalsound} .User Interface: Yes .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Your stereo and yourT_V_Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: {gap}User Interface: and uh . Perhaps that's an idea .Marketing: Yeah but then again you you still have a lot of buttons ,User Interface: Yeah , that's right . And which youdon't use .Industrial Designer: YeahMarketing: so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: but you could uh I thin uh there's a possibility to g uh to uh to put those buttons uh behind some uh kind of uh protectionMarketing:FlapUser Interface: Right .Industrial Designer: so that if y y you only get to see them when you need 'em .Marketing: yeah . Yeah , okay , that's possible ,Industrial Designer: That's possible , so that you only get the{disfmarker}Marketing: but it'll get very big the the remote control .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah . You should just give it to {gap} . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: No n n no , just {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Uh for example you got th uh the same size uh remote control you use everyday , but um {vocalsound} the usual buttons such as uh um {vocalsound} zapping uh as you call it in Dutch . Uh and the volume control uhare only the only possible buttons uh to use directly .Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: {vocalsound} Changing channel .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Or uh {vocalsound} the numbers , of course.Marketing: Mm-hmm . {gap} numbers .Industrial Designer: But uh not uh the buttons used to search on the the channels on your television .Marketing: On and off .Industrial Designer: You only use those uh the firsttime , or .Marketing: Yeah ,Industrial Designer: So . Uh .Marketing: play , pause , stop .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . So maybe a a minimalist design , the least uh possible amount uh of buttons .Industrial Designer:Yeah , I think so , yeah .Marketing: {gap}User Interface: Yes . But you should make sure that you have every button they need on it . Because uh things for uh teletext , I dunno uh , {vocalsound} wIndustrialDesigner: {gap}Marketing: Mm-hmm , of course .Industrial Designer: Yeah , uh teletext .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: what's the name ?Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: {gap} think so.Marketing: {gap}Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: So you don't want to bother people with uh loads of buttons , but on the other hand they need many buttonsMarketing: No .Project Manager: so they don'thave to get out of their seat .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: But {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Right .Marketing: Because I think a market will be all kind of people . Elderly p el elderly ,young people , so .User Interface: But if if it's if it's international you should uh look in {disfmarker} think in Britain they have uh different things they can do with the T_V_ , or so uh that you can choose what you wantto see . I dunno if you should uh take that in consideration , or that you just should aim for the normal T_V_sIndustrial Designer: Uh .User Interface: that uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah I I understand.Marketing: Yeah I think that's the better one ,User Interface: And the B_B_C_ {gap} .Marketing: because {disfmarker} I think if you you're going to target a lot of people and the whole world and only Britain then Ithink the cost will uh rise higher than the twelve fifty , I think .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} No .User Interface: Yes {gap} . Yeah , I don't know if the they have that anywhere else , though .Marketing: I think theaim is better to use uh the whole world and Britain , yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah , we can leave that {gap} .Industrial Designer: When I think of it uhMarketing: Not that much .IndustrialDesigner: I think the main idea uh of this remote remote control is uh to make it user friendly . So uh I think uh when p uh when uh the customers will buy this remote control , they already have uh the remote controlwhich uh companies uh uh with uh the the standards uh remote control with which comes uh with the television .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Mm . Standard deliver .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer:So uhMarketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: it only has to have uh the most used buttons . You don't have to integrate the buttons to search the channels on your television .User Interface: WellIndustrial Designer: Inthose {disfmarker} in that {disfmarker}User Interface: butMarketing: No but {disfmarker}User Interface: but then you have to to find your other remote control if you want to search .Marketing: Yeah . Yeah , th it{vocalsound} it's {disfmarker} I think that's not {disfmarker}User Interface: That's not {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah but I {disfmarker} but it is impossible to uh to accommodate uh accommodate uh all thebuttons on the s on the difference {disfmarker} different televisions sets on one remote control . It's impossible .User Interface: Yeah , that's right .Marketing: Yeah , okay {gap} .Industrial Designer: Because uh forexample Sony television uh has the opportunity to s to make uh uh to make it possible for {disfmarker} to see on one side of the screen uh teletext , and on the other side uh just n uh regular television . Uh{disfmarker}Marketing: No .User Interface: Yeah that's uh {gap} .Marketing: I think n m n most televisions nowadays do this .Industrial Designer: Yeah , but uh they don't use the same signal , uh on remote control.User Interface: Well not everywhere .Marketing: So {gap} I think numerals .Industrial Designer: Because you can't use a Panasonic uh remote control on a on a Philips television .Marketing: Yeah , but then you haveto choose the {disfmarker} always with r universal remotes you have to choose the code .User Interface: Yeah , you can choose the code {gap} .Industrial Designer: Okay . Okay . Okay . Okay ,Marketing: You can usewhich which type of television you have . That's no problem . But I think like the two pages on the same screen , like teletext and normal television , that's that's nowadays standard , I think .Industrial Designer: but{vocalsound} uh I think that most people uh th uh will buy the remote control because {vocalsound} because uh the first {disfmarker} they lost the one they lost first oneMarketing: Simplicity .Industrial Designer: orthe first one is broken ,Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: so uh uh perhaps they have a got a an older television ,Marketing: Yeah , yeah . Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: so that option is not {vocalsound} uhoptional for those uh people .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah g available .User Interface: But the people have a new television ,Marketing: True .User Interface: and c if you look into the future , then they want{disfmarker} will want the button , if their thing is broke .Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: So we should take that in consideration .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Okay , wellMarketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: any more ideas ?User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Oh mm , no .Project Manager: No ?User Interface: Guess not.Marketing: Of course .Industrial Designer: Things'll come up .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay , yeah well we have some time . Let's see what more I have to tell you . I don't think there is much left . Nope .We're starting to close . Um our next meeting uh will start {disfmarker} well we're a little bit early , but our next meeting will start in in thirty minutes .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface:"}
{"doc_id":"doc_123","qid":"","text":"Professor E: So . OK . Doesn't look like it crashed . That 's great .Grad G: So I think maybe what 's causing it to crash is I keep starting it and then stopping it to see if it 's working . And so I think starting it and thenstopping it and starting it again causes it to crash . So , I won't do that anymore .Postdoc B: And it looks like you 've found a way of uh mapping the location to the {disfmarker} without having people have to give theirnames each time ?PhD A: Sounds like an initialization thing .Postdoc B: I mean it 's like you have the {disfmarker} So you know that {disfmarker}Grad G: No .Postdoc B: I mean , are you going to write down {pause}that I sat here ?Grad G: I 'm gonna collect the digit forms and write it down .Postdoc B: OK .PhD C: Oh , OK .Grad G: So {disfmarker} So they should be right with what 's on the digit forms . OK , so I 'll go ahead andstart with digits . u And I should say that uh , you just pau you just read each line an and then pause briefly .Professor E: And start by giving the transcript number .PhD A: TranPhD D: Transcript {disfmarker} Uh . OK ,OK .PhD A: Oh sorry , go ahead .Professor E: So uh , you see , Don , the unbridled excitement of the work that we have on this project .Grad H: OK .Professor E: It 's just uh {disfmarker}Grad H: Umh .Professor E: Uh ,you know , it doesn't seem like a bad idea to have {comment} that information .Grad G: And I 'm surprised I sort of {disfmarker} I 'm surprised I forgot that ,Professor E: Yeah , I {disfmarker} I 'd {disfmarker} I thinkit 's someGrad G: but uh I think that would be a good thing to add . After I just printed out a zillion of them .Professor E: Yeah , well , that 's {disfmarker} Um , so I {disfmarker} I do have a {disfmarker} a an agendasuggestion . Uh , we {disfmarker} I think the things that we talk about in this meeting uh tend to be a mixture of uh procedural uh mundane things and uh research points and um I was thinking I think it was a meetinga couple of weeks ago that we {disfmarker} we spent much of the time talking about the mundane stuff cuz that 's easier to get out of the way and then we sort of drifted into the research and maybe five minutes intothat Andreas had to leave . So {vocalsound} uh I 'm suggesting we turn it around and {disfmarker} and uh sort of we have {disfmarker} anybody has some mundane points that we could send an email later , uh holdthem for a bit , and let 's talk about the {disfmarker} the research - y kind of things . Um , so um the one th one thing I know that we have on that is uh we had talked a {disfmarker} a couple weeks before um uhabout the uh {disfmarker} the stuff you were doing with {disfmarker} with uh um uh l l attempting to locate events , we had a little go around trying to figure out what you meant by \" events \" but I think , you know ,what we had meant by \" events \" I guess was uh points of overlap between speakers . But I th I gather from our discussion a little earlier today that you also mean uh interruptions with something elsePhD D: Yeah.Professor E: like some other noise .PhD D: Uh - huh . Yeah .Professor E: Yes ? You mean that as an event also .PhD D: ToProfessor E: So at any rate you were {disfmarker} you 've {disfmarker} you 've done somework on thatPhD D: right .Professor E: and um then the other thing would be it might be nice to have a preliminary discussion of some of the other uh research uh areas that uh we 're thinking about doing . Um , I thinkespecially since you {disfmarker} you haven't been in {disfmarker} in these meetings for a little bit , maybe you have some discussion of some of the p the plausible things to look at now that we 're starting to get data, uh and one of the things I know that also came up uh is some discussions that {disfmarker} that uh {disfmarker} that uh Jane had with Lokendra uh about some {disfmarker} some {disfmarker} some um uh workabout I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I d I {disfmarker} I don't want to try to say cuz I {disfmarker} I 'll say it wrong , but anyway some {disfmarker} some potential collaboration there about {disfmarker} about the{disfmarker} about the {disfmarker} working with these data .PhD C: Oh . Sure .Professor E: So . So , uh .Grad G: You wanna just go around ?Professor E: Uh . {pause} Well , I don't know if we {disfmarker} if this issort of like everybody has something to contribute sort of thing , I think there 's just just a couple {disfmarker} a couple people primarily um but um Uh , wh why don't {disfmarker} Actually I think that {disfmarker}that last one I just said we could do fairly quickly so why don't you {disfmarker} you start with that .Postdoc B: OK . Shall I {disfmarker} shall I just start ? OK .Professor E: Yeah , just explain what it was .Postdoc B:Um , so , uh , he was interested in the question of {disfmarker} you know , relating to his {disfmarker} to the research he presented recently , um of inference structures , and uh , the need to build in , um , this{disfmarker} this sort of uh mechanism for understanding of language . And he gave the example in his talk about how {pause} um , e a I 'm remembering it just off the top of my head right now , but it 's somethingabout how um , i \" Joe slipped \" you know , \" John had washed the floor \" or something like that . And I don't have it quite right , but that kind of thing , where you have to draw the inference that , OK , there 's thistime sequence , but also the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the causal aspects of the uh floor and {disfmarker} and how it might have been the cause of the fall and that um it was the other person who fell than theone who cleaned it and it {disfmarker} {comment} These sorts of things . So , I looked through the transcript that we have so far , {comment} and um , fou identified a couple different types of things of that type andum , one of them was something like uh , during the course of the transcript , um um , w we had gone through the part where everyone said which channel they were on and which device they were on , and um , thequestion was raised \" Well , should we restart the recording at this point ? \" And {disfmarker} and Dan Ellis said , \" Well , we 're just so far ahead of the game right now {pause} we really don't need to \" . Now , howwould you interpret that without a lot of inference ? So , the inferences that are involved are things like , OK , so , how do you interpret \" ahead of the game \" ? You know . So it 's the {disfmarker} it 's {pause} i Whatyou {disfmarker} what you int what you draw {disfmarker} you know , the conclusions that you need to draw are that space is involved in recording ,Grad G: Hmm , metaphorically .Postdoc B: that um , i that {pause}i we have enough space , and he continues , like \" we 're so ahead of the game cuz now we have built - in downsampling \" . So you have to sort of get the idea that um , \" ahead of the game \" is sp speaking withrespect to space limitations , that um that in fact downsampling is gaining us enough space , and that therefore we can keep the recording we 've done so far . But there are a lot of different things like that .Grad G: So ,do you think his interest is in using this as {pause} a data source , or {pause} training material , or what ?Professor E: Well , I {disfmarker} I should maybe interject to say this started off with a discussion that I hadwith him , so um we were trying to think of ways that his interests could interact with oursGrad G: Mm - hmm .Professor E: and um uh I thought that if we were going to project into the future when we had a lot of data, uh and um such things might be useful for that in or before we invested too much uh effort into that he should uh , with Jane 's help , look into some of the data that we 're {disfmarker} already have and see , is thereanything to this at all ?Grad G: Mm - hmm .Professor E: Is there any point which you think that , you know , you could gain some advantage and some potential use for it . Cuz it could be that you 'd look through it andyou say \" well , this is just the wrong {pause} task for {disfmarker} for him to pursue his {disfmarker} \"Grad G: Wrong , yeah .Professor E: And {disfmarker} and uh I got the impression from your mail that in factthere was enough things like this just in the little sample that {disfmarker} that you looked at that {disfmarker} that it 's plausible at least .Postdoc B: It 's possible . Uh , he was {disfmarker} he {disfmarker} he{disfmarker} you know {disfmarker} We met and he was gonna go and uh you know , y look through them more systematicallyProfessor E: Yeah .Postdoc B: and then uh meet again .Professor E: Yeah .Postdoc B: So it's , you know , not a matter of a {disfmarker}Professor E: Yeah .Postdoc B: But , yeah , I think {disfmarker} I think it was optimistic .Professor E: So anyway , that 's {disfmarker} that 's e a quite different thing fromanything we 've talked about that , you know , might {disfmarker} might {disfmarker} might come out from some of this .PhD C: But he can use text , basically . I mean , he 's talking about just using textPostdoc B:That 's his major {disfmarker} I mentioned several that w had to do with implications drawn from intonational contoursPhD C: pretty much , or {disfmarker} ?Postdoc B: and {pause} that wasn't as directly relevant towhat he 's doing . He 's interested in these {disfmarker} these knowledge structures ,PhD C: OK .PhD D: Yeah , interesting .Postdoc B: inferences that you draw {pause} i from {disfmarker}Professor E: I mean , hecertainly could use text , but we were in fact looking to see if there {disfmarker} is there {disfmarker} is there something in common between our interest in meetings and his interest in {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} inthis stuff . So .Grad G: And I imagine that transcripts of speech {disfmarker} I mean text that is speech {disfmarker} probably has more of those than sort of prepared writing . I {disfmarker} I don't know whether itwould or not , but it seems like it would .Professor E: I don't know , probably de probably depends on what the prepared writing was . But .Postdoc B: Yeah , I don't think I would make that leap , because i in narratives, you know {disfmarker} I mean , if you spell out everything in a narrative , it can be really tedious ,Grad G: Mm - hmm .Postdoc B: so .Grad G: Yeah , I 'm just thinking , you know , when you 're {disfmarker} whenyou 're face to face , you have a lot of backchannel and {disfmarker} And {disfmarker}Postdoc B: Oh . That aspect .Grad G: Yeah . And so I think it 's just easier to do that sort of broad inference jumping if it 's face toface . I mean , so , if I just read that Dan was saying \" we 're ahead of the game \" {comment} in that {disfmarker} in that context ,Postdoc B: Well {disfmarker} Yeah .Grad G: I might not realize that he was talkingabout disk space as opposed to anything else .Postdoc B: I {disfmarker} you know , I {disfmarker} I had several that had to do with backchannels and this wasn't one of them .Grad G: Uh - huh .Postdoc B: This{disfmarker} this one really does um m make you leap from {disfmarker} So he said , you know , \" we 're ahead of the game , w we have built - in downsampling \" .Grad G: Mm - hmm .Postdoc B: And the inference , iif you had it written down , would be {disfmarker}Grad G: I guess it would be the same .Postdoc B: Uh - huh . But there are others that have backchannelling , it 's just he was less interested in those .PhD F: Can I{disfmarker} Sorry to interrupt . Um , I f f f I 've {disfmarker} @ @ {comment} d A minute {disfmarker} uh , several minutes ago , I , like , briefly was {disfmarker} was not listening and {disfmarker} So who is \" he \"in this context ?PhD C: Yeah , there 's a lot of pronoun {disfmarker}PhD F: OK . So I was just realizing we 've {disfmarker} You guys have been talking about \" he \" um for at least uh , I don't know , three {disfmarker}three four minutes without ever mentioning the person 's name again .PhD C: I believe it . Yeah . Actually to make it worse , {comment} uh , Morgan uses \" you \" and \" you \"PhD F: So this is {disfmarker} this is{disfmarker} this is {disfmarker} gonna be a big , big problem if you want to later do uh , you know , indexing , or speech understanding of any sort .Grad G: It 's in my notes .PhD C: with gaze and no identification , or{disfmarker} I just wrote this down . Yeah , actually . Cuz Morgan will say well , \" you had some ideas \"PhD D: Yeah .PhD F: You just wrote this ?PhD C: and he never said Li - He looked {disfmarker}Grad G: Well , Ithink he 's doing that intentionally ,PhD C: Right , so it 's great .Grad G: aren't you ?PhD C: So this is really greatPhD F: Right .PhD C: because the thing is , because he 's looking at the per even for addressees in theconversation ,PhD D: Yeah .PhD F: Mm - hmm .PhD C: I bet you could pick that up in the acoustics . Just because your gaze is also correlated with the directionality of your voice .Professor E: Uh - huh . Could be.Postdoc B: Can weProfessor E: Yeah . That would be touGrad G: Oh , that would be interesting .PhD C: Yeah , so that , I mean , to even know um when {disfmarker}PhD D: Yeah .PhD C: Yeah , if you have the P Z Msyou should be able to pick up what a person is looking at from their voice .Grad G: Well , especially with Morgan , with the way we have the microphones arranged . I 'm sort of right on axis and it would be very hard totell .PhD C: Right .Grad G: Uh .Postdoc B: Oh , but you 'd have the {disfmarker}PhD C: Put Morgan always like thisPostdoc B: You 'd have fainter {disfmarker}PhD C: and {disfmarker}Postdoc B: Wouldn't you getfainter reception out here ?Professor E: Well , these {disfmarker}Grad G: Sure , but I think if I 'm talking like this ? Right now I 'm looking at Jane and talking , now I 'm looking at Chuck and talking , I don't think themicrophones would pick up that difference .PhD C: But you don't have this {disfmarker} this problem .Postdoc B: I see .PhD C: Morgan is the one who does this most .Grad G: So if I 'm talking at you , or I 'm talking atyou .Professor E: I probably been affect No , I th I think I 've been affected by too many conversations where we were talking about lawyers and talking about {disfmarker} and concerns about \" oh gee is somebodygoing to say something bad ? \" and so on .Grad G: Lawyers .Professor E: And so I {disfmarker} so I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm tending to stay away from people 's names even though uh {disfmarker}Postdoc B: I am too.PhD C: Even though you could pick up later on , just from the acoustics who you were t who you were looking at .Postdoc B: I am too .Grad G: And we did mention who \" he \" was .PhD C: Yeah .Professor E: Yeah .PhDF: Right , but I missed it .Grad G: Early in the conversation .PhD F: But {disfmarker} it was uh {disfmarker}PhD C: Yeah , yeah .Professor E: Yeah .Grad G: Do {disfmarker} Sh - Can I sayProfessor E: Yeah . No no ,there 's {disfmarker}PhD F: Yeah .Grad G: or {disfmarker} or is that just too sensitive ?Professor E: No no , it isn't sensitive at all .Postdoc B: Well {disfmarker}Professor E: I was just {disfmarker} I was just{disfmarker} I was overreacting just because we 've been talking about it .Postdoc B: And in fact , it is {disfmarker} it is {disfmarker} it is sensitive .PhD C: No , but that {disfmarker} it 's interesting .Professor E: It 'sOK to {disfmarker}Postdoc B: I {disfmarker} I came up with something from the Human Subjects people that I wanted to mention . I mean , it fits into the m area of the mundane , but they did say {disfmarker} Youknow , I asked her very specifically about this clause of how , um , you know , it says \" no individuals will be identified uh , \" in any publication using the data . \" OK , well , individuals being identified , let 's say youhave a {disfmarker} a snippet that says , \" Joe s uh thinks such - and - such about {disfmarker} about this field , but I think he 's wrongheaded . \" Now I mean , we 're {disfmarker} we 're gonna be careful not to havethe \" wrongheaded \" part in there , but {disfmarker} but you know , let 's say we say , you know , \" Joe used to think so - and - so about this area , in his publication he says that but I think he 's changed his mind . \" orwhatever . Then the issue of {disfmarker} of being able to trace Joe , because we know he 's well - known in this field , and all this and {disfmarker} and tie it to the speaker , whose name was just mentioned amoment ago , can be sensitive .Professor E: b But I {disfmarker}Postdoc B: So I think it 's really {disfmarker} really kind of adaptive and wise to not mention names any more than we have to because if there 's aslanderous aspect to it , then how much to we wanna be able to have to remove ?Professor E: Yeah , well , there 's that . But I {disfmarker} I mean I think also to some extent it 's just educating the Human Subjectspeople , in a way , because there 's {disfmarker} If uh {disfmarker} You know , there 's court transcripts , there 's {disfmarker} there 's transcripts of radio shows {disfmarker} I mean people say people 's names allthe time . So I think it {disfmarker} it can't be bad to say people 's names . It 's just that {disfmarker} i I mean you 're right that there 's more poten If we never say anybody 's name , then there 's no chance of{disfmarker} of {disfmarker} of slandering anybody ,PhD C: But , then it won't {disfmarker} I mean , if we {disfmarker} if we {disfmarker}Professor E: but {disfmarker}Grad G: It 's not a meeting .PhD C: Yeah . Imean we should do whatever 's natural in a meeting if {disfmarker} if we weren't being recorded .Professor E: Yeah . Right , so I {disfmarker} So my behavior is probably not natural .PhD C: \" If Person X {disfmarker}\"Professor E: So .Postdoc B: Well , my feeling on it was that it wasn't really important who said it , you know .Professor E: Yeah .PhD F: Well , if you ha since you have to um go over the transcripts later anyway , youcould make it one of the jobs of the {pause} people who do that to markGrad G: Well , we t we t we talked about this during the anon anonymization .PhD F: Right .Grad G: If we wanna go through and extract from theaudio and the written every time someone says a name . And I thought that our conclusion was that we didn't want to do that .Professor E: Yeah , we really can't . But a actually , I 'm sorry . I really would like to push{disfmarker} finish this off .Postdoc B: I understand . No I just {disfmarker} I just was suggesting that it 's not a bad policy p potentially .Professor E: So it 's {disfmarker}Postdoc B: So , we need to talk about thislater .Professor E: Yeah , I di I didn't intend it an a policy though .Postdoc B: Uh - huh .Professor E: It was {disfmarker} it was just it was just unconscious {disfmarker} well , semi - conscious behavior . I sorta knew Iwas doing it but it was {disfmarker}PhD F: Well , I still don't know who \" he \" is .Professor E: I {disfmarker} I do I don't remember who \" he \" is .PhD C: No , you have to say , you still don't know who \" he \" is , withthat prosody .Professor E: Ah . Uh , we were talking about Dan at one point {comment} and we were talking about Lokendra at another point .Postdoc B: Yeah , depends on which one you mean .Professor E: And Idon't {disfmarker} I don't remember which {disfmarker} which part .PhD F: Oh .PhD C: It 's ambiguous , so it 's OK .Professor E: Uh , I think {disfmarker}Grad G: Well , the inference structures was Lokendra .PhD F:But no . The inference stuff was {disfmarker} was {disfmarker} was Lokendra .Professor E: Yeah . Yeah . Yeah .PhD F: OK . That makes sense , yeah .PhD C: And the downsampling must have been Dan .Professor E:Um {disfmarker}Grad G: Yeah .Professor E: Good {disfmarker} Yeah .PhD C: It 's an inference .Professor E: Yeah , you could do all these inferences , yeah .Grad G: Yeah .Professor E: Yeah . Um , I {disfmarker} Iwould like to move it into {disfmarker} into uh what Jose uh has been doingPostdoc B: Yeah .Professor E: because he 's actually been doing something .PhD D: Uh - huh . OK .Professor E: So . {vocalsound} Right .PhDF: As opposed to the rest of us .PhD D: Well - {comment} {vocalsound} OK . I {disfmarker} I remind that me {disfmarker} my first objective eh , in the project is to {disfmarker} to study difference parameters to{disfmarker} to find a {disfmarker} a good solution to detect eh , the overlapping zone in eh speech recorded . But eh , {vocalsound} tsk , {comment} {vocalsound} ehhh {comment} In that way {comment} I{disfmarker} {vocalsound} I {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I begin to {disfmarker} to study and to analyze the ehn {disfmarker} the recorded speech eh the different session to {disfmarker} to find and to locate and tomark eh the {disfmarker} the different overlapping zone . And eh so eh I was eh {disfmarker} I am transcribing the {disfmarker} the first session and I {disfmarker} I have found eh , eh one thousand acoustic events ,eh besides the overlapping zones , eh I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I mean the eh breaths eh aspiration eh , eh , talk eh , eh , clap , eh {disfmarker} {comment} I don't know what is the different names eh you use to{disfmarker} to name the {disfmarker} the {pause} n speechPhD A: Nonspeech sounds ?PhD D: Yeah .Grad G: Oh , I don't think we 've been doing it at that level of detail . So .PhD D: Yeah . Eh , {vocalsound} I"}
{"doc_id":"doc_124","qid":"","text":"Marketing: Is this okay ?Project Manager: Uh yeah . Fine now . Oh , it's not liking us , it went that-a-way . Computer adjusting . Oh . Uh . Okay . {vocalsound} So . Right . You ready back there ? {vocalsound} Uh okay. Welcome everyone . Um this is the kick-off meeting for the day . Um we're the new group uh to create a new remote control for Real Reaction . As you can see our agenda is to open up the meeting , um becomeacquainted with each other , um have a little training on tools , uh create a plan , discuss things and and we only have twenty minut twenty five minutes total . Okay . The new remote control is to be original , trendyand user-friendly . That , Steph , is your part , is the user-friendliness . The originality um is gonna take all of us . Um the trendiness we'll probably go look at {disfmarker} for some marketing research information fromyou , Sarah . Um and we'll get on with it . Okay , so we'll have a functional design individual work um with meeting and then conceptual design t and then detailed design . Okay ? Right . Everybody's supposed to try outthe whiteboard . Kate , why don't you try it first , if you can either bring your things with you , I guess {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Uh yeah , if I can pick up with all these bits and pieces , hang on .ProjectManager: And while you're doing that we'll try and figure out how to hook these things on as well , 'cause we're all gonna have to be able to walk around .Industrial Designer: Uh right , so you want an animal and thecharacteristics of that animal . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Do you have to be able to recognise what animal it is ? {vocalsound} Um {disfmarker}Project Manager: Uh I do not thinkso ,User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Are we all gonna draw a cat ?Project Manager: I think it's just to try out the whiteboard . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Ah {vocalsound} .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Only animal I could thin I could draw {vocalsound} .Marketing: I know .Industrial Designer: Its a sort of bunny rabbit cat . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:You can tell it's not a bunny rabbit by the ears .Project Manager: Uh-huh .Industrial Designer: Um I suppose it should have a mouth as well , sort of {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: Right , yeah.Project Manager: Great . And the characteristics ?Industrial Designer: Um the favourite characteristics of the cat um {disfmarker} the whiskers I think , um because they're the easiest to draw .Project Manager:Uh-huh .Industrial Designer: In fact , I'll give it some more {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Oh , and the tailProject Manager: Fantastic . Since you're handy as well , why don'tyou do yours next , Steph . I think it's to get us used to using the pen .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yes . Um sure it's not to test our artistic {disfmarker}Project Manager: Uh no . {vocalsound} A mouse-y?Industrial Designer: It's a mouse .User Interface: That's not a mouse-y , no .Industrial Designer: No it's not a mouse . It's a wombat .Project Manager: Oh .User Interface: It's a ratty .Project Manager: Argh .IndustrialDesigner: A what ?Project Manager: Rat .User Interface: A ratty .Project Manager: Not a mouse , a rat .Industrial Designer: A webbed foot . Webbed f {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} It's clothes . That's it'sclothes . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Oh right {vocalsound} .User Interface: It's a ratty with a with a with a very long tail .Project Manager: And your favourite characteristics of thatanimal .User Interface: I love whiskers . Uh they're intelligent and they're cheeky {vocalsound} and uh fantastic petsProject Manager: Oh .User Interface: and very friendly .Project Manager: Okay . Kate ?IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: And they sit on your shoulder and whisper the answers to your homework in your ear when you're doing your homework .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing:Thanks .Project Manager: Oh , a fish .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Gosh ,User Interface: A shark ?Industrial Designer: why didn't I think of fish ? That's even easier to draw than cat . {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm{vocalsound} this is very representational fish . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh , okay .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Fine .Marketing: Um I like them because they're sleekProject Manager:Favourite characteristics ?Marketing: and they have a lot of freedom but they also do n uh swim in groups ,Project Manager: 'Kay .Marketing: so .Project Manager: So they have team elements . {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}Marketing: Do you have a favourite one ?Project Manager: I'm afraid I'm with Steph . And I think your pen's running out of whatever . But I'm afraid I take the coward's way out , and the cat'slooking the other way . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: He's hiding .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um cats are sometimes very independent . Myparents had cats . Uh and they can mm decide for themselves what is best . Okay . Now um {vocalsound} we have to get down to the nitty-gritty of how to make this and this remote control has to be sold {disfmarker}um we're to sell it for twenty five Euros , with a profit aim ultimately of fifty million Euros . That tells you something about how many um we have to sell on an international scale . Um would be an awful lot of these ,would be like what , a hundred million of them um to make twenty five Euros on each one and to make a total profit of fifty million . Um the production is to only cost twelve and a half Euros per item . Now if they costtwelve and a half , you're selling it for twenty five , you're making twelve and a half Euros each . Um and we're to make a profit of fifty million , that's t uh {disfmarker} can you do the maths and how many are weselling ?Marketing: {vocalsound} Uh yeah . {vocalsound} I was just wondering if that's the um {disfmarker} If fifty percent is normal {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mark-up ?Marketing: B yeah . Um I would thinkwould be more like sixty percent . But um let me {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: I have two thoughts . One hundred , fifty percent .Project Manager: {gap}Marketing: And and your question is howmany do we have to sell ?Project Manager: Yes , 'cause our market um is international and your problem is {disfmarker} has to do with marketing of {disfmarker} you know , you gotta know how many we're going tobe selling to know how big a market you have to target and who is that .Marketing: At twenty five . Mm-hmm . Yeah , that's um {disfmarker}Project Manager: To give you a pretty good idea of where you're looking.Marketing: So that's four million of them ?Project Manager: Something like that ? Okay .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: That's fifty million Euros . In order to make fifty million Euros , and you're only getting twelveand a half each {disfmarker}Marketing: And if we make {disfmarker} Mm-hmm .Project Manager: That's a lot of selling . Two four {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah . Four million .Project Manager: To be fifty , be fourmillion . You'd have to sell four million .Marketing: Hmm .Project Manager: Okay ? Right . Experience with a remote control . Any of you use of remote control for a television or D_V_D_ or something ? You're bothnodding ,Industrial Designer: That that that's the sorta product we're talking about , one that will work for a {disfmarker} in a home environment , for a T_V_s and {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: allthree . Well I've seen some remote controls that are for more than one device at a time , but I also have heard about them not working well or not well co-ordinated and you wind up working with this one for thi thisthree and then this one over here for another .User Interface: It is true that you always sit around {disfmarker} you know , you're sitting on your sofa and you wanna change something , there's five different remotes ,and one for the D_V_D_ and one for the video and one for cable and one for whatever else .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm-hmm . Y yeah .Project Manager: And they don't always talk to each other.User Interface: But I presume this is t I presume this is just for television .Project Manager: Don't know . Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Are there any um ideas for the remote ? What would it be forand what group would be be for ? We have to think about that one .Marketing: We could make a Hello KittyIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: themed remote .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Ithink one in b bright colours would be good . {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I think one that works would be good . {vocalsound}Marketing: We could totally go for the Japan-a-mation. Well I mean there's also the cachet that um uh the Japanese make great {vocalsound} products . Electrical {disfmarker} their industrial design is very good .User Interface: I think one that doesn't have lots ofsuperfluous functions . Like I've got one at home that has well , apart from the obvious , channels , channel up , channel down , volume ,Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: you know , subtitles , mute , there's a lottabuttons that I've got no idea what they do , like {vocalsound} .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Well , that's a really good point ,Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: because I think one of the things that{disfmarker} being somewhat computer literate , we tend to um go to menus and then make choices , you know , so if it's like an uh volume button , you know , you can go in and say mute or or volume . We don'tneed to have like the l the numbers if we also have uh uh channel up channel down .User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: Mm . {vocalsound} Okay .Marketing: Mm . We can make it smart like an iPod , you know ,make everything menus .User Interface: Ooh , closing the meeting .Project Manager: Yeah . Um I know this sounds like it was very quick ,User Interface: That was quick .Project Manager: but the I think that's theindustrial design is the first one ,Industrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: that's Kate , for the working design .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: And user , that's you S Steph , for the technicalfunctions design , and for marketing the user requirements specification . I think there's going to be a lot of {disfmarker} we have to help each other and work through this as a group , and I think we all , you know ,{vocalsound} we like our kitty-cat and our rat and our fish , but I think we all have to like each other um to get this done . Uh as it says , we're gonna get individual instructions , but uh I don't think they allowed a lot ofextra time , so I think a little bit of less of this and more at do will set us in good stead . Do you all agree ?Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Alright . Um then I don't see anyreason to prolong it and f we should finish this meeting at ni right now and go into other things . Alright , so this is the end of the first meeting .Marketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: 'Kay .Project Manager: Thank youall ."}
{"doc_id":"doc_125","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Right uh . So um . So where's the PowerPoint presentation ? Sorry ? Microsoft PowerPoint , right . Right , okay . So . Right . Okay , so we've got uh so we've got new project requirements . Um . Sobasically we've got three things , and we've got forty minutes in which to uh {disfmarker} for this meeting to uh to discuss the various options . Um . Three presentations .Industrial Designer: We have a {disfmarker} Iguess we have a presentation each , 'cause I've got one . Um .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah ,Project Manager: I see , right .Marketing: I've got one too .Project Manager: That's nice to know , one from each ofyou . Um new project requirements . Um so do we want to do the presentation first , or do we want to um {disfmarker} W I I got um {gap} or or three things basically , um relating to the remote being only for T_V_ .We discussed that last timeIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: and in actual fact that was pr pretty well what we came up with anyway .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: So in fact it actually f wewon't be forestalled {vocalsound} in a sense .Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {gap}Project Manager: Um we've got uh teletext outdated . Um did you get any information on that?Industrial Designer: Uh we didn't , no .User Interface: No .Project Manager: Right and the corporate image was the uh final thing .Industrial Designer: I d I didn't personally .Marketing: Hmm .Project Manager: So I Igot that in email form .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um . Right okay . So I guess if we go ahead with the uh with the three presentations . So we'll start with yourself on the basis that uh{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Okay that's fine . I'll just um I'll grab the wire out the back of this one .Project Manager: Sorry , yep .Industrial Designer: {gap}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh .{vocalsound}User Interface: What is it ?Industrial Designer: I'm not quite sure how it {disfmarker}User Interface: I think you've got to do um control F_ eight .Industrial Designer: Control {gap} {disfmarker} Doesn'tseem to be quite working at the moment .User Interface: Shift F_ eight . {vocalsound} {gap}Industrial Designer: Alt function F_ eight . {vocalsound} Again not doing anything .Marketing: {vocalsound} There's usuallya little thing in the top right for the {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Oh .User Interface: Ah there ,Marketing: Oh hang on ,User Interface: it's doing something .Marketing: it's just coming on .Industrial Designer: {gap}pressed about five times now .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay , that's me {gap} . Okay , um I have to go {gap} again .Project Manager: {gap} it going ?IndustrialDesigner: Hopefully that should be it this time . Okay , I think we're there . That's good . Okay , um {disfmarker} Okay I'm gonna be looking at the working design . Um {vocalsound} of the of the remote control . UmI've just got three sections , first is the research I made on the on the remote control itself um . And then that involves the components required in it and the systems uh design of the actual the actual remote . Um sohaving researched the existing models within the market , um I found my research off the internet . Um I've established what the components required for the remote control to function , actually are . And then also themethods in which these components interact together for the remote to actually do what you want it to do and how it connects with the television . Um the basic components are an energy source which I guess um inmost existing models would be a battery supply . Whether that'll be sort of two batteries , four batteries , um it may vary .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: We then have the user interface , which is basicallythe like the the buttons on the actual remote . Um the various functions used for changing channel , uh channel up and down , volume , things like that . Um there's also a chip inside the remote which does all thecomputer type things . And then the sender , which um is usually , I've found , an infra-red device which sends a signal to the actual television . Um and the last part is receiver which is important in the system but isnot actually part of the remote itself , because that's obviously found in the television . {gap} . Um I'm gonna have to actually draw on the board because uh it was a little tricky on PowerPoint to get this working , so .I'll just go through there . S um um do we have a cloth to wipe this down with , or ? Oh I'll jProject Manager: Uh there's the rubber on the right , I think .User Interface: I think it's that little {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: Oh I see . Oh okay . I'll get rid of the bear.$Project Manager: {gap} it's magic . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay that's great . Okay , so we start off with a um battery suppl Uhno , a power supply which we'd probably get {disfmarker} it's probably gonna be the battery . Um we then have a particular button , which may be {disfmarker} {gap} that's obviously there's lots and lots of differentbuttons . Um but this is how the basic system works . Um that sends {gap} after you press that that sends the message to the chip , which um then sends {disfmarker} It sort of interprets which button you've pressedand then sends the appropriate message to the sender . {vocalsound} Um . So that's {gap} . That's the remote in itself , that's the components of the remote and how they work together . So this is the uh userinterface . Um this is the chip itself , which then {gap} , and that's the that's the infra-red sender . And then on the separate thing we have on the on the television we have a a receiver . And the sender sends amessage to the receiver . 'Kay .Project Manager: So the the top bit's the power source , yes ? {gap} .Industrial Designer: Ah yes , that's the power source . Um . {gap} going on to personal preferences , I've said thatbattery seems the best option for the actual remote , just because of the size . You don't want a a cable attached to the remote otherwise it's not it's not really a remote . Um and then the sender ,Marketing:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and infra-red um has been used quite successfully . If the battery's on reasonable power , they always seem to work fairly well . You don't have to be point directly at the televisionitself .Project Manager: So the battery is the {disfmarker} in the sender .Industrial Designer: Um {disfmarker} Yes . 'Kay and that's it for the moment .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Okay . So , now more design .{vocalsound}User Interface: Right . Thank you . Mine's not quite as complicated as all that .Project Manager: {vocalsound} That's what we like to hear . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Did I press function ?Yeah .Project Manager: Is it control function ei Oh , th there you go .User Interface: Oh . Um . Okay so I'm gonna talk a bit about the technical functions design . I'm Louisa , the User Interface Designer , as you know .{vocalsound} Um so the m basic method of this is to send a signal from the remote to the television set , so that a desired function is performed . Um an example of the function could be to change the volume up ordown , uh so obviously you need two different buttons for that . Um to change the channel , either by pressing the number that you want or by channel up or down . Um to switch the television on or off , maybe astandby button . Um here are two example remotes . Um by the look of it they both have um kind of play and fast forward , rewind functions , so I think they incorporate a kind of video function which we won't have toworry about . Uh but as you can see , the left remote is quite um quite busy looking , quite complicated . Um whereas the right remote is much simpler , it looks much more user friendly . Um so my personal preferencewould be the right remote . So , {vocalsound} it's got nice big buttons , it's got a very limited number of buttons . Um they're nice , kinda clearly labelled . Um I like the use of the kind of um symbols like the trianglesand the squares and the arrows as well as the words on the um kind of play functions and all that . So it's very very user friendly , and it's got a little splash of colour . Could maybe do with some more colour . Um.Project Manager: Well there's a couple of things there . Um we have to remember that we have our own um logo and colour scheme . So basically we'd have to uh we'd have to be putting that on um the the product.User Interface: Hmm . Do we get to see that ?Project Manager: {vocalsound} I haven't as yet , no .User Interface: Will you be presenting that in a bit ? {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} But uh I got uh Igot an email that basically said to uh make sure that uh whatever device we come up with at the end of the day had to incorporate um the corporate colour and slogan . So uh I'm guessing that uh uh I notice on thebottom there it's got uh what's that ? A_P_O_G_E_E_ that might be the corporate colour scheme , although the only the only colour I can see in that is the red .Industrial Designer: {gap}User Interface: Hmm.Industrial Designer: Would you be able to get rid of the the extra buttons here , the the sort of circular section , because that seems to be for a video as well . So we could dispense with that little bit as well and just getit down to just the numbers and the volume . Possibly ?User Interface: What do you mean by the circular section ?Industrial Designer: J yeah yeah yeah j yeahUser Interface: Like all of that bottom bit ?ProjectManager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: just this little bit is that {disfmarker} I think that's still um a video remote part ,User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: so maybe we could get rid of that as well .UserInterface: Yeah . And I don't really think that you need nine numbers .Project Manager: Well b uh wUser Interface: I mean how often do you use seven , eight and nine ? I think just one to six and then channel up anddown should be enough .Project Manager: Well th the on the {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: Like how often do you hit nine ?Project Manager: Well uh for for general television purposes obviously you havechannels one to five at this point in time ,Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: and we'd have to have some room for uh future such channels . But but {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: It's just people are used toseeing that , so if we didn't have them then they might think it's {disfmarker} {gap}Project Manager: But , well possibly but the the other thing is that with um the current expansion of uh channels uh in the process oftaking place , certainly the button up and down , but uh I mean {vocalsound} how many channels do we have to um {disfmarker} actual television channels do we have to uh prepare for ? I would have thought that uh{gap} it's forever expanding and at the moment we've got {disfmarker} although you've onl you've got the five standard , you've got the B_B_C_ have come up with a further sixIndustrial Designer:{vocalsound}Project Manager: and uh there's uh I don't know exactly how many channels there are on uh when you take into account uh Sky and various other um various others .Marketing: Mm-hmm .IndustrialDesigner: Hmm .Project Manager: So I would've thought that we wouldn't , you know , rather {disfmarker}User Interface: Hmm .Project Manager: Okay , if the time of flicking from one to other , but presumably it'lltake a secondUser Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: 'cause you have to be able to stop it . Maybe you could have a fast forward on the on the channels that w and then you could dispense with more otherwise .Y you'd want you'd want to get fairly quickly to the channel that you wanted .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Um some remotes have kind of favourite options where if you always flickfrom channel one to channel six , um if that's a favourite you just like by-pass two to five .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: {gap}Project Manager: Yeah , I s I suppose in a sense you could have um ifyou've got a hundred channels then if you had sort of an easy way of getting {disfmarker} rather than having to go one to a hundred , you could go one to one to ten , ten to twentyIndustrial Designer: {gap}UserInterface: Hmm .Project Manager: and then have a second button to get you to the actual channel you wantMarketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: and that would cut down your time .User Interface: Mm . Um .ProjectManager: Anyway .User Interface: But I think a lot of um like Cable and Sky and stuff , that would be tuned to one channel , and then you'd have another remote for all of those channels .Industrial Designer: Okay ,yeah .User Interface: Like to get to fifty five and the higher numbers {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Whatever .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay . Okay .Limit the number of buttons , user friendly .User Interface: But I suppose nine's not really excessive .Industrial Designer: I suppose with nine you've got the the like the last one which makes the tenth means you{disfmarker} uh it's like uh multiples you can put them together so you can make any number .User Interface: I suppose it does make a good pattern .Industrial Designer: So with that we'd kind of by-pass anyproblems with {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah Well that's true , yeah ,Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: you could get fifty by five and a zero or whatever , that that makes sense .Industrial Designer:Yeah . 'Cause that facilitates having all the numbers you could ever need .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Um .Project Manager: Does .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: So w so what was the circularthing that you were {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay . Um I think that's just for a video , so we wouldn't need any of that at all .Industrial Designer: So we could get it down to what ?Project Manager: If it's just forT_V_ , which is what it is at the moment .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: So we get to {disfmarker} How many buttons have we got ? We've just got ten , eleven twelve th We got fourteen that we need .I guess .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Um which isn't really too many . That'll be quite easy to make a user guide for a fourteen button remote .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Well we've we've got um thatit's remote for T_V_ only otherwise project would become too complex with uh which would endanger the time to market {vocalsound} was one of the considerations .Industrial Designer: 'Kay .Project Manager: I'm{disfmarker} I don't know d did you have that information behind the marketing ,Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: or was I meant to give you that information ?Marketing: Um I'm not sure . I had I've had somemarket information ,Project Manager: Right .Marketing: but not from the company , no .Project Manager: Right , okay , so basically time to market seems to be important , therefore speed of delivery .IndustrialDesigner: 'Kay .Project Manager: We've only got about another four hours left . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {gap}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Okay , so is everyonehappy with that ?Industrial Designer: Ah yes yes , that seems good .Marketing: Okay .User Interface: Right well that's the end of my presentation .Marketing: 'Kay . I'm gonna pull this off . {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: I think if you just give it a second to maybe catch up .Project Manager: Yeah , I think she said twenty seconds to um {disfmarker}Marketing: Uh-huh .Industrial Designer: I'm sure we'll have by the end oftoday .Marketing: Okay . {vocalsound} I'll give it another go . Yeah , there we go . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {gap}Marketing: Right , we've done some research into the functional requirements that peoplewant out of their remote control . And first off we should state that th the remote control's for controlling the T_V_ and um how do people use it ? We asked them sort of which buttons were useful for them . Um how dhow does a remote control look and feel for them , and what improvements would would they like to remote control . And we did that by sort of giving them a questionnaire that we'd prepared and asking them to fill inthe answers . And three quarters of them found that remote controls are ugly and that a sort of even higher proportion would spend more for a sort of s uh a fancier remote control And that of all the buttons on theremote control , the sort of setting buttons for sort of the picture picture and brightness and the audio settings , um they weren't used very often at all . People concentrated on the channel buttons and the volumebuttons and the power buttons . Uh we also asked them about speech recognition uh for remote control . And young people were quite receptive to this , but as soon as we got sort of over about into a thirty five to fortyage {disfmarker} forty five age group and older , people people weren't quite so keen on speech recognition . There's a lot more th there's a lot lot more older people who didn't know whether they wanted it or not aswell . Um we also asked what frustrated people about remote controls and the number one frustration was that the remote was lost somewhere else in the room and that they couldn't find it . And the second secondbiggest frustration what that if they got a new remote control , it was difficult to learn um all the buttons and all the functions , and to find your way around it . {vocalsound} Okay , so {disfmarker} My personalpreferences from the marketing is that we need to come up with some {vocalsound} sort of sleek sort of good looking high high-tech {disfmarker} A design which looks high-tech , basically . Um and that we shouldcome up with fewer buttons than most of the controls on the market , and we should sort of concentrate on the channels and sort of power , and also volume and that sort of thing , as as Louisa said . Um we couldmaybe come up with a menu , a sort of a an L_C_D_ menu for other functions on the remote control . That's worth thinking about . Um and maybe we could think about speech recognition as well , because um sort ofyoung people are perhaps the ones that are gonna buy buy our new product if we aim it at sort of you know sort of a high-tech design . That that might be the market that we're we're looking for . And we could maybethink about using speech recogniti recognition as a way to find the remote control if it's lost in a room , rather than sort of um having it to {vocalsound} speech recognition to change the channels . 'Cause there's aproblem with that in that the television makes noise , so it could end up talking to itself and changing its channel .Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay um , and that's the end of the slide show .That's it . Cool .Project Manager: What was that last wee bit there ?User Interface: Do {gap} a lot of um {disfmarker}Marketing: Um about speech recognition ?Project Manager: Speech recognition ,User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: But that was only for young people that preferred it , older people didn't .Marketing: Youn young people pref Yeah , they s they said that they'd be interested in a remotecontrol which offered that possibility and as you go up through the age groups , people got less and less interested in sort of a a remote control that you could talk to , so .Industrial Designer: No what I maybe think isum it seems the technology would be quite advanced for that and they might end up costing more than our twelve fifty budget for for the speech recognition . Um .Project Manager: Well that's right .Marketing: Yeah .Yeah . Yeah .Industrial Designer: And possibly the thing about the about the remote being lost we could have {disfmarker} You know with your mobile phone , you lose that and you can ring it . Maybe we can havesome kind of sensor which is kept somewhere where you can {disfmarker} {gap} some kind of buzzer system between the two . So you can press a button which is always kept in one placeMarketing: Yeah .IndustrialDesigner: and then it maybe buzzes to somewhere else , wherever the remote actually is .Marketing: Uh-huh . Yeah . Yeah , we'd have t that would mean we'd have to put two products together as well ,IndustrialDesigner: That is true , yes .Marketing: which which again would probably be a bit expensive , but {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Hmm .User Interface: There's key rings um that you kind of whistle at or clap at , Ican't remember , and then they whistle back , or something like that .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Sounds reasonable .User Interface: That'd probably be really simple ,Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: they'recheap .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Yeah . So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So I guess it'd be something we could like attach to the {disfmarker} or like the same technology"}
{"doc_id":"doc_126","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Okay . {vocalsound} Je croix que c'est dommage de le {disfmarker} it will be sad to destroy this prototype . It really looks like a banana .User Interface: {vocalsound} It is a banana .Project Manager:It is a banana . {vocalsound}User Interface: It is the essence of bananas . I would be confused with this thing .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Mm .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}User Interface: SProject Manager: Okay .Marketing: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}User Interface: How is everyone ?Project Manager: Hi .Industrial Designer: Hi .Project Manager: So we are here forthe detailed design meeting .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} So {vocalsound}User Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: we will uh {disfmarker} I will first present what we are going to do inthis meeting . Then uh I've {disfmarker} I will also take notes during this meeting and I will send you uh a summary then as usual . We will then look at the evaluation criteria of the prototype presented by uh our twocolleagues that make good work .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} And uh then we will see the financial aspects and the cost of the product . Then we will uhevaluate the product . And uh end with the conclusion of this project and see whether it fits with {disfmarker} it fulf if it fulfil the requirement or not . SoIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: d let's start withthe cost aspect so so I look at the aspect discussed last time , that is to say uh to have a standard battery , {vocalsound} to have a yellow banana shaped uh case with uh a rubber material around itIndustrial Designer:{vocalsound}Project Manager: to be uh to feel spongy ,User Interface: Like a banana .Project Manager: {vocalsound} and uh also at the different aspect like having a wheel etcetera .Marketing: {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: And the cost ended to be ten point seven Euros . So which is uh good , because we had a price gap of twelve point five Euros .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Sofor the financial aspect it's okay , we can uh {disfmarker} we can continue with this product uh as if ,Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} and we are now going to see the project evaluation with uhour marketing expert .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah . Okay . So uh you can have my project in {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah . You have a presentation ?Marketing: Uh yeah just a {disfmarker}Project Manager:Participant four , yes .Marketing: {vocalsound} Four . Evaluation .Project Manager: Okay . Okay .Marketing: Okay . So you can go . We can go through .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: So I made an evaluation andthe the evaluation criteria is made according to {vocalsound} the users' requirements and the market trends we talked about uh during the previous uh meetings . So you can go through and {disfmarker}ProjectManager: Okay .Marketing: okay so uh we have uh six points . We we talked about before .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: So we we want to have a product fancy look and feel , technologically innovative , easy touse , fashion , {vocalsound} easy to find in a room , and robust ,Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Marketing: uh and uh uh I have a scale of uh seven points .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing:Okay . So I go through all the uh all the points here ,Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: and uh according to what you think about the this project you can uh mm make a one point , two point or seven point . Okay?Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: And after we ha we have an an average , and uh we see .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Marketing: The {disfmarker} okay ? {vocalsound} Uh so uh fancylook and feel , what do you think ?Project Manager: Okay . Maybe you can presen {vocalsound}Marketing: F between o one and seven .Project Manager: okay . Maybe {disfmarker} {vocalsound} hold it .Marketing:{vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} So I think it's uh very uh very nice . What do you think ?User Interface: I give it a {disfmarker} I give it a five .Project Manager: Yeah . So it's between one and seven ?Seven is the highest uh ?Marketing: Yeah . {vocalsound} Seven is the {disfmarker}Project Manager: I will give a six .Industrial Designer: I will give a a five .Marketing: {vocalsound} Mm-hmm .User Interface:{vocalsound} And you ?Marketing: {gap} sorry .User Interface: Do you vote uh Christine ?Marketing: {gap} eh ?User Interface: Do you also vote ?Marketing: {vocalsound} No , I just want to see something{disfmarker}Project Manager: Maybe we all have to agree on a common {disfmarker}User Interface: Well , we can {gap} very easily {vocalsound} .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Uh I think uh {gap} {vocalsound} and need to {gap} as well {vocalsound} .Project Manager: No problem . SoUser Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Need to{disfmarker}Project Manager: this is your {disfmarker}Marketing: uh I don't know if you {disfmarker} we ha we have to put uh one uh f If it's better or {disfmarker}Project Manager: One is most {gap} .UserInterface: I {disfmarker}Marketing: Uh-uh .Project Manager: Well , we can choose what we want .Marketing: Um . Yeah .Project Manager: Okay , let's say that seven is the best .Marketing: Or maybe we can say sseven is the best mm {vocalsound} .Project Manager: Okay . So so do note the grade we have five , six for me ,Industrial Designer: Five .Project Manager: five . And what what's your choice ?Marketing: Oh sorry .{vocalsound}Project Manager: How much would you give on the fancy aspect , on the fashionable aspect ?Marketing: Six {disfmarker} Uh s you can {disfmarker} how much what ?Project Manager: How much wouldyou {disfmarker} you don't answer to this uh questionnaire ?Marketing: Oh yes I mm I dunno mm , I think six , it's a good uh {disfmarker}User Interface: So it will have five point five average .Project Manager: Fivepoint five average .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Mm .Marketing: Wa can {gap} . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Well , does it{disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} I sorry .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay . So after , the technological aspect ?Project Manager: Okay , techne technological aspect .Marketing: So we we said uh wehave uh a new technological uh thing with a wheel .Project Manager: Yeah , we have the wheel . We also have the rubber material ,Marketing: Uh .Project Manager: which make it uh like new also . I think I would give afive .User Interface: It's {gap} four .Project Manager: Four ?Industrial Designer: A four also , because , except for the wheel , we don't have so much innovation .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: The rubber is{disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: Uh a four . I I {disfmarker}User Interface: D are we including the voice {disfmarker} are you glu are we including the voice in the end or not ? Huh ?ProjectManager: No .User Interface: No . Okay .Project Manager: SoMarketing: No .Project Manager: what's your uh grade ?Marketing: Four .Project Manager: Four ? So we have four , four f and five ?Marketing: We can putfour ?User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah , four . Four , yeah , let's put four .User Interface: For twenty five .Marketing: Everyone is okay or {disfmarker} four poin Four .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Doesn't it {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: Very easy to use . Do you think it's easy to use ?Project Manager: Yeah , I think so . Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: I give a seven , Ithink .Industrial Designer: Six .Project Manager: I would give a {disfmarker} I would give a seven as well . It's very easy to use .Industrial Designer: Six .Marketing: Mm , six for me also .Project Manager: SoUserInterface: 'Kay .Marketing: Six point five . {vocalsound}Project Manager: six point five .Industrial Designer: Six six six point five .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Okay . {vocalsound} Is it fashion ?{vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh yeah ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: its its f its fruit fruit shape .Marketing: Seven ? {vocalsound}Project Manager: I would say seven . And is very very nice design.Marketing: Yeah it's fashion , because it's a fruit ,User Interface: Yeah , we can we can put a seven here .Marketing: and we say that the {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah , seven .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing:yeah , seven .Project Manager: Yeah . Seven , okay .User Interface: Yeah . Well , we hope .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Easy to find .Marketing: {vocalsound} Uh easy to find in a room ? {vocalsound}ProjectManager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I lost my banana . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: I think you can't miss it .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah.Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Yeah ?Industrial Designer: Uh .User Interface: Yeah , I think it's cool . I think we can put a six here .Marketing: We have the lightning , or {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah , wehave {vocalsound} the {vocalsound}Marketing: The lighting .Project Manager: we don't sesh especially have the lightningUser Interface: {vocalsound} So you'll make the material transparentProject Manager: but{disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: so that it uh lights up completely , or {disfmarker}Project Manager: So it's yellow . It's okay .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah . {gap}Project Manager: I think it'svery easy to {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing: Seven ?Project Manager: I would say seven . It's hard to miss it .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Six . Yeah , okay .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Is it{disfmarker} is it robust ?Project Manager: Yeah , it's rubber , made of rubber ,Industrial Designer: Uh f yeah , it's ru it's rubber .Project Manager: I think it's m it's uh more rubber than uh other remote control.Industrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah the only problem there might be {disfmarker} which {gap} know , i if it's very sensitive ,Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: they will ,IndustrialDesigner: Yeah .User Interface: I don't know {disfmarker}Project Manager: But it is uh {disfmarker} it is surrounded by rubber material .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah , okay .Project Manager: Somaybe we can put a six .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: Mm .Marketing: {vocalsound} Everybody is okay , six .Industrial Designer: Six or five . Five {vocalsound}Project Manager: Six is okay ?UserInterface: Six , yeah , for me .Industrial Designer: Six .Marketing: Yeah . {vocalsound} Okay .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: S now {vocalsound} um so .Project Manager: Tadada . We haveto sum up everything .User Interface: Twenty .Marketing: Thirteen uh , twenty , twenty six point five , uh seven , thirty two , thirty six {gap} .User Interface: Thirty . ThirMarketing: That's that's okay ? Six .ProjectManager: {vocalsound} Six is a good {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay .Marketing: Good . Uh if we say that seven it's uh it's the better ,Project Manager: Yeah , the be .Industrial Designer: {gap}User Interface: Yeah ,the top {disfmarker}Marketing: and when uh s six sit six are good {disfmarker} it's a good uh p product , I think .Project Manager: Okay , so six is a {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm . So will become eight soon?Project Manager: So it's a good evaluation , I think . It's very promising .User Interface: Yeah , well it's a bit biased . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Huh .Marketing: We have a good price and uh {vocalsound}.Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: So this prototype is quite nice . {vocalsound}User Interface: Okay .Marketing: Good .User Interface: Because I saw uh some phones that were banana shaped , uh wirelessphones not mobile ones , wireless for the house ,Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah . Okay .User Interface: uh quite big also ,Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: and they were selling {gap}something like a hundred Euros , two hundred Euros .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Just a {vocalsound} just a phone , wireless .Project Manager: So having this at twenty five Euros is uh quiteattractive , I think .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: I think the {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: But almo also the complexity between a phone and a remote control is not{disfmarker} cannot compare .User Interface: Yeah . Yeah ,Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: it's much more complex , but {disfmarker}Project Manager: So , I think , we can summarise . So we have seen theprototype . It's very nice according to the work of our two designer .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: The the the financial aspect were okay . We we have the cost below uh our threshold and so wecould sell at twenty five Euros and make i make profit . The the evaluation give satisfying result as well . So I think we can move to the last part of the meeting .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So the cost isin the budget , the evaluation is okay , so I th I think we can now uh open champagne and make a huge party .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Start to eat banana . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}ProjectManager: I don't know if it's provided by uh by the meeting staff .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay so congratulation . {vocalsound} Niceproduct .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound} Congratulations to the team . Uh very well , we worked together fantastically .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Project Manager: I think it was a good collaboration uh . Aspect .User Interface: {vocalsound} So what does the management say ?Project Manager: Sorry ?User Interface: What does the management say?Project Manager: I think we will have um much bigger project next time and a much bigger salary as well .User Interface: Ah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: All it dependson who watch this meeting .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} We don't know . {vocalsound}UserInterface: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay , soUser Interface: Okay .Project Manager: good guys {vocalsound} ,Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: so see you for next uh successful project . {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: Okay . Yeah . Fruits .Marketing: Mm 'kay .User Interface: Mm ."}
{"doc_id":"doc_127","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Good morning , again .Industrial Designer: One question .User Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Send .User Interface: Choose a number ? {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: Submit . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yep yep yep yep .Project Manager: All set ?Industrial Designer: Mm . Yeah .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Good . Okay . Let's see what we can findhere . Okay . A very warm welcome again to everyone .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um here we are already at our uh functional design meeting . Um and this is what we are going to do . The opening, which we are doing now , um and the special note , I'm project manager but on the meetings I'm also the secretary , which means I will make uh minutes as I did of the previous meeting .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Project Manager: And uh I also put these as fast as possible in the uh project folder , so you can see them and review what we have discussed . Um if I'm right , there are three presentations , I guess eachone of you has prepared one ? Good .User Interface: Yes .Project Manager: And um we will also take a look at new project requirements , um if you haven't heard about them yet . And then of course we have to take adecision on the remote control functions and we have some more time , forty minutes . But I think we will need it . Um well I don't know who wants to go first with his presentation .Industrial Designer: I'll go first . Okay. I'll go first yeah .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: You can go first , okay .User Interface: Well .Marketing: Well , shall I go first with the users ?User Interface: Well {vocalsound}Marketing: I think {disfmarker} wellokay no problem . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Is there an order ? I haven't {disfmarker}User Interface: everybody already has his presentation ,Marketing: Ja precies , ja precies , ja preciesUser Interface:{vocalsound} so you can adjust it . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So . Huh ? Okay , um {disfmarker}Project Manager: And one question , uh your name Denni , is it with aMarketing: E_I_E_ .Project Manager: I_E_{disfmarker} E_I_E_ , okay . Thank you .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay , um I wanted to explain the working design of the remote control . It's possibly very handy if you want to uh design oneof those . Um {vocalsound} well so it basically works uh as I uh uh r wrote down uh in this uh little uh summary . Uh when you press a button , {vocalsound} uh that's when you do pr for example when you uh want toturn up the volume , um a little connection is made uh the the rubber uh {vocalsound} button just presses on aProject Manager: Sorry . {vocalsound}Marketing: {gap}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:on a little print plate uh which uh makes uh uh {vocalsound} a connection that uh gives the chips , uh which is uh mounted beneath those uh that plastic of a rubber button . Uh senses that a connection has been made, and know and knows what button you pressed , becau uh for example the the volume up or volume down button . Um uh the the chip uh makes a Morse code uh like uh signal which uh then is si uh signalled{vocalsound} to uh several transistors which makes uh which sends the signal to a little let . You know what a let is ?User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Okay . {vocalsound} And that makes uh the the infra-redlights signal which is sent to the television set . Uh which has a sensor in it to uh sense uh the signal of the infra-red . That's basically uh how it works . Um the findings uh uh that I found uh searching up some uhdetailed information about the remote controls , are that uh they are very easy to produce , uh it is pis uh it's possible to uh make them in mass production because it is as eas it is as easy as uh printing a page , uh justuh fibreglass plate um is b uh is uh covered with uh some uh coatings and uh uh {vocalsound} and chips .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Uh and the technology's already available , we don't have tofind out how remote controls uh have to work or uh how that how uh to make some chips that are possible to uh to to transmit those uh signals . Uh I made a little uh uh animation of {vocalsound} about how a tran ouruh remote controller works .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {gap}User Interface: Oh right .Marketing: {vocalsound} Animation . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}we telUser Interface: There is something turning .Industrial Designer: There .Project Manager: Yeah , it's a little bug it's in the in the smart board . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay . Uh wellUserInterface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: the sub-component , I suppose that you understand what a sub-component is , is f in this example it's the button . Uh when it is pressed down , um , the switch is ter is uh isswitched on , so with uh the wire is sent to the to the chip in uh co-operation with the battery of course , because to make uh a a signal possible you have to have some sort of uh li uh a d ad uh electronic uh{disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Infrared light .Industrial Designer: Yes , uh , okay . Um w after it's being composed by the chip uh the signal uh is transported uh to the infra-red bulb , and fromthere it signals a Morse code-like signal to the to the b to the bulb in uh in the television set . Okay . S Uh I wrote down some personal preferences about uh the remote control . Of course it is very handy if the remotecontrol is hand held , so you don't have to uh uh wind it up or something , or just is it's it's very light to uh to make uh to use it . Uh I personally uh pref prefer that uh it would be p uh come available in the variouscolours , and uh easy to use buttons . But I suppose that the one of the other team members uh uh thought of that uh too . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah , I've got it there too . {vocalsound}{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: And it is possible for several designs and um easy to use b uh sorry , easy to use buttons . Perhaps soft touch , uh touch screen uh buttons because uh the rubber buttons are alwaysuh uh they uh slightly uh they can be slightly damaged ,Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: uh so the numbers on the buttons are not possible uh to read anymore . And uh well as I said uh before th uh wecan uh make several designs . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Okay , well , that's my contribution to this meeting , and uhMarketing: To this meeting . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay ,thank you .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: two of these this meeting . So .User Interface: Shall I go uh next ?Project Manager: Yep .User Interface: 'Kay .Project Manager: Please .User Interface: So.Marketing: {vocalsound} Smoking .User Interface: Well uh , my name's {gap} , and I looked at uh technical functions design of the remote . Uh I did this by uh looking at examples of other remote controls , of howthey uh they look , and information from the web that I found . Um well what I found was that uh th the actual use of the remote control is to send messages to television set , how you uh d what you described uh justearly . And this can be all sorts of medsa messages , turn it on , turn it off , uh change the channel , adjust volume , that kind of thing . Uh play video , teletext , but also t uh play C_D_ if you use it your C_D_ playerthe remote control will that one . There are some uh examples of remote controls . You can see they are very different . The one has got all the functions that you could possibly need and an lot of uh buttons etcetera .And the other is uh more user friendly , little with big buttons . And uh not n all the the the the stuff you can do with it , but uh the the essential stuff is there . Um {vocalsound} I guess you could better y you shouldlook at a a user centred uh approach , because the customers have to use them and and if they don't think it's usable they won't uh buy it . A lot of buttons they may think from I don't need s as much as that . Uh , wellperf personal preferences is is uh a simple remote , with uh the basic functions that you can need that you could use . But uh keep in mind the new functions of T_V_ what we discussed earlier , split screen and uh isthat a function that you should have ? Because all the T_V_s will have them . Or because of only a few and isn't really necessary . And then uh make it {disfmarker} I would make so that you can could uh use it onmore than one appliance . If you have one that uh uh does with the vi the the video , it could also work with uh with the stereo , because play is play and stop stop and that sort of thing . The shu c you could reuse thebuttons so that you don't have to have a lot of buttons for uh anything . And it should be a user friendly , clear buttons , and not too much . And that is my presentation .Project Manager: Okay , thank you .IndustrialDesigner: Okay . {vocalsound}Marketing: 'Kay . Check . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: You must still have it open .Marketing: Kijke {gap} 'Kay , so . {vocalsound} We're going to jdiscuss the functional requirements of the remote , that m that means that functions user n want to have on the remote control , or just {disfmarker} Yeah , and the users , actually .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: The methods I I prefer is we're going to look which section of the users we are going to focus a l on more . Are the younger people going to buy the remote control or the elderly people ? Andthen {disfmarker} tho that section we're going to focus and adjust the remote more to that section than the whole user section . Okay . Some data . Younger people , from sixteen to thir forty five um years are moreinterested in fj features like L_C_D_ screens , speech recognition e etcetera . And we possess about two third of the market from in that range of age . The elderly people , from forty five years to sixty five years are notthat much interested in features , and we possess less than two third , that's two fifth , of the market share in that area . {gap} Goed so .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Hmm .Marketing: 'Kay .Findings . Fifty percent of the users lose their remote often .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: So we don't have to make it very small , like uh like a mobile phone orsomething , but some somewhat bi bigger than small , so you don't lose it that much anymore . {vocalsound} Seventy five percent of the users also find it ugly ,Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: and fif seventy fiveof the users zap a lot , so the buttons sh should be that small , or shouldn't be that complex because we have to search for the buttons , which one are you going to use . Next . Important issues about the remote . Ithink it would be better with a personal reference , but okay . Remote control has to have to have a low power usage , because s w seventy five percent of the users only zap one time an hour , so the power usage isalso one one time an hour , or so , with a high power usage we would use a lot of but batteries . The volume button and the channel buttons are the two most important buttons on the remote control , so those{disfmarker} they {disfmarker} those have to h be find very easily . And have to be somewhat like bigger etcetera . It has also be {disfmarker} have to find easily when the label is gone . My colleague also announcedit that labels should be scratched offIndustrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: Hmm .Marketing: or would be s uh {gap} senden {gap}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: okay . {vocalsound} So uh if that's k uh ifthat's the problem , you also have to find it easily on the remote . Buttons . Like what all colleagues said , have to have to be minimalized . or should be covered , or in L_C_D_ screen . L_C_D_ screen is easy becausewe have the L_C_D_ screen , we have the various options . Put one option and then you have the all the buttons of that options , so the other options would be gone . And you don't see the buttons . So L_C_D_ screensshould be easy , but an L_C_D_ screen , the problem with the L_ sc L_C_D_ screen is that elderly people fr from forty five to for sixty five years don't use the L_C_D_ screen a lot . So we have to that keep that in mindthat if you're going to implement L_C_D_ screen , you don't have to make it that hard to learn or to use .Industrial Designer: Uh L_C_D_ screen as in uh touch screen ?Marketing: Yeah , touch screen , yeah .IndustrialDesigner: Okay .Marketing: The last but not least , younger people are more critical about the features . Because they use the remote control often more often , and are more technical than the ol older people . And theolder people spend more money , and easily on a remote control .User Interface: Mm .Industrial Designer: 'Kay .Marketing: So we have to keep in mind to to focus not a lot {disfmarker} not that much on the youngerpep younger people , but also somewhat on the elderly people . And on my personal preferences , I don't have any mo more time to come with that ,User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: but like I said, L_C_D_ screen is easily to useIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: because you have {disfmarker} you can implement a lot of buttons in one remote with not that much buttons . And it should be easy to use .Especially the volume buttons , the channel buttes buttons and the number buttons to zap through the channels . And that is it .Project Manager: Okay ,Industrial Designer: Okay . {vocalsound}Project Manager: thankyou .User Interface: Oh right . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um , well thank you all , huh . {vocalsound} I dunno uh did everyone receive an email with uh the new project requirements ?User Interface: {vocalsound}No . Res I did not .Project Manager: No ? Well ,User Interface: Perhaps the rest ?Industrial Designer: No .Project Manager: then I think it's a good thing that I made a separate slide of themMarketing: Ja , {gap}ProjectManager: so you can all read them . Oh , well not in this presentation . HmmUser Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Should be in there . Well , I can tell you them uh from my laptop . Um teletext does{disfmarker} has become outdated since the popularity of the internet .User Interface: Oh . Mm .Project Manager: {vocalsound} So that's uh the first thing we I think we should pay less attention to uh teletext . Uh theremote control should only be used for the television , otherwise the project becomes more complex , which endangers the time to market , and of course would make it more costly , I think . Um our current customersare within the age group of forty plus , and new product should reach a new market with customers that are younger than forty , and you talked about that before . And uh a last point , but also very important , ourcorporate image should stay recognisable in our products , which means that our uh corporate colour and slogan must be implemented in the new design . So we have to keep that in mind . Um well uh according to ouragenda it's then time to take a decision on the remote control functions . So , who has any idea about what should be on it , and what shouldn't ?User Interface: Well you said it should only uh work with one appliance?Marketing: Be television .User Interface: Or with one uh d che only the T_V_ ?Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah . Only be used for television .User Interface: And the video also , or not uh ?{vocalsound}Project Manager: Well it says only for television here , huh .Marketing: Only the television .User Interface: Oh . Alright . Okay . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Makes it a lot easier , huh ?{vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: So yeah , then you can yeah . Requirements , no ? Functions .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Then it should have uhon , off ,Industrial Designer: Yeah for {disfmarker}User Interface: and uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Standby options ,Marketing: Yeah , the basics then by a volume , channel , one till two zero numbers on it,Industrial Designer: yeah ? Uh yeah .User Interface: Yeah . And per perhaps uh {disfmarker}Marketing: oh teletext doesn't have to be ?User Interface: No .Marketing: Um other functions .User Interface: Well uh uhyes yes s sh A button where you can uh change from one number to two numbers .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah I had {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Two s two two digits ,Marketing: Yeah , yeah .User Interface:Can you {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: oh okay .User Interface: Don't know if that's got a name ,Industrial Designer: Yeah I understand what you mean . Yeah .User Interface: but {disfmarker}{vocalsound}Marketing: I think it's I think it's easy to implement a button with a s s what which especially do that , because some T_V_s , if you press the t one and then the two , it be between five secs it make twelve,Industrial Designer: It makes it twelve , yeah .User Interface: Yeah . SIndustrial Designer: Indeed . Okay .Marketing: and that's that's not relaxedIndustrial Designer: Well , not really {vocalsound}Marketing: to user.Industrial Designer: And and there are some models that don't uh accommodate that function . SoMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .Industrial Designer: d uh wh the Philip's television makes it possible in that indeed touh press one and then two to make uh the uh tj to reach channel twelve .Marketing: So that it {vocalsound} easy and fast .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: But uh all the television makes uh use of thosebutton where you first press that button and then press two digits to uh to getMarketing: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah . Yeah , so you should have that one on .Industrial Designer: Uh yeah , think so .Marketing: Ourmain targets' age are ? were ? Forty five plus , or ?User Interface: Mute misschien also .Project Manager: Uh wellIndustrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: new product should reach a market with customers that areyounger than forty , and now we have current customers uh of forty plus .Marketing: Forties , okay because {vocalsound} because younger people as Uh younger people have now , sixteen till to twenty five age , are feighty one percent interested in L_C_D_ screen . From twenty six to thirty five have sixty six percent , and thirty six to forty five , fifty five percent , so I think to um {disfmarker} Because on most recog remotecontrols um the print plate will be broken how much , two years . You have to press h very hard to go to the next channel .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: With the L_C_D_ screenit's easier because you only have to wipe the screen to uh {disfmarker} for fingerprint ,Industrial Designer: Yeah , we we could yeah . But I think that uh that collides with our mission to make it very cheap .Marketing:and then you can use it again .Industrial Designer: Because L_C_D_ screens are very expensive .Marketing: Yeah , okay .User Interface: AnIndustrial Designer: A touch screen uh probably uh even more .Marketing:Yeah but a {disfmarker} you don't know {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So ,Marketing: True .Industrial Designer: true , true .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: But uh{disfmarker} Well um is it possible to make an L_C_D_ screen uh , how was the information ?Marketing: Yeah , it only says that this perce percentage like L_C_D_ screen . Because , yeah and it says that younger agebetween sixteen and forty five highly interesting features more critical .Industrial Designer: So perhaps we should we should focus on that L_C_D_ screen .Marketing: {vocalsound} And if the only f Yeah , because ourtarget is sixteen to forty five .User Interface: But , do you {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah but uh will we not uh exceed our uh our uh production uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah you don't know how much itcosts . Yeah , you don't know how much it costs , the L_C_D_ screen .Industrial Designer: Is it possible to find out , anyway ?Marketing: No , I don't have any costs here ,Industrial Designer: You know ?Marketing: Ionly have percentages .User Interface: But if you would do an L_C_D_ screen do we have don don't you have any buttons ? Or because if it only directs at the T_V_ , then you only have uh I don't know what you wantto do with the L_C_D_ screen .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: No , an L_C_D_ screen's just like uh like a drawn here . Um just uh displays several buttons ,User Interface: Yeah ?Industrial Designer: for exampleum if you wanted the minimal uh use b uh buttons , such as channel and volume , you just h uh displays four buttons on the screenUser Interface: Oh right , so you can {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: and it's possibleto p uh press them down , just like a touch screen .User Interface: Oh , yeah alright . So you can adjust which buttons you want on that s screen .Industrial Designer: Yeah , we can make it possible to do that , yeah"}
{"doc_id":"doc_128","qid":"","text":"Grad E: OK , we 're on .Professor B: OK .Grad E: So , I mean , everyone who 's on the wireless check that they 're on .PhD F: C we {disfmarker}Grad G: Alright .Postdoc C: I see . Yeah .PhD F: Yeah .Grad E: OK , ouragenda was quite short .Professor B: Oh , could you {pause} close the door , maybe ? Yeah .Grad E: Sure . Two items , which was , uh , digits and possibly stuff on {disfmarker} on , uh , forced alignment , which Janesaid that Liz and Andreas had in information on ,Professor B: Grad E: but they didn't ,PhD F: Mm - hmm .Professor B: I guess the only other thing , uh , for which I {disfmarker}Grad E: so .PhD F: We should do thatsecond , because Liz might join us in time for that .Grad E: OK .Professor B: Um . OK , so there 's digits , alignments , and , um , I guess the other thing , {vocalsound} which I came unprepared for , uh , {vocalsound}is , uh , to dis s s see if there 's anything anybody wants to discuss about the Saturday meeting .Grad E: Right .Professor B: So . Any {disfmarker} I mean , maybe not .Grad E: Digits and alignments . But{disfmarker}Professor B: Uh .PhD F: Talk about aligning people 's schedules .Professor B: Yeah .Grad E: Yeah .Postdoc C: Mm - hmm .Professor B: Yeah . I mean {disfmarker} Right . Yeah , I mean , it was{disfmarker}Grad E: Yeah , it 's forced alignment of people 's schedules .PhD F: Yeah .PhD D: Forced align .PhD F: If we 're very {disfmarker}Professor B: Yeah .PhD F: Yeah .Professor B: With {disfmarker} with{disfmarker} whatever it was , a month and a half or something ahead of time , the only time we could find in common {disfmarker} roughly in common , was on a Saturday .PhD D: Yeah .Professor B: Ugh .Grad E:Yep .PhD F: It 's pretty sad .Professor B: Yeah .PhD F: Yeah .Postdoc C: Have {disfmarker} Have we thought about having a conference call to include him in more of {disfmarker} {vocalsound} in more of the meeting? I {disfmarker} I mean , I don't know , if we had the {disfmarker} if we had the telephone on the table {disfmarker}Professor B: No . But , h I mean , he probably has to go do something .PhD F: No , actually I{disfmarker} I have to {disfmarker} I have to shuttle {pause} kids from various places to various other places .Professor B: Right ?Postdoc C: I see . OK .Professor B: Yeah .PhD F: So . And I don't have {disfmarker}and I don't , um , have a cell phonePhD D: A cell phone ?PhD F: so I can't be having a conference call while driving .Professor B: R r right .Postdoc C: No . {comment} It 's not good .Professor B: So we have to{disfmarker} we {disfmarker}Postdoc C: That 's not good .PhD F: Plus , it would make for interesting noise {disfmarker} background noise .Professor B: Grad E: Yep .PhD F: Uh {disfmarker}Professor B: So we have toequip him with a {disfmarker} with a {disfmarker} {vocalsound} with a head - mounted , uh , cell phoneGrad E: Ye - we and we 'd have to force you to read lots and lots of digits ,Professor B: and {disfmarker}Grad E:so it could get real {disfmarker} {vocalsound} real car noise .PhD F: Oh , yeah .PhD D: Yeah .PhD F: Oh , yeah .Grad G: Take advantage .PhD D: And with the kids in the background .PhD F: I 'll let {disfmarker} I 'd let{disfmarker}PhD D: Yeah .PhD F: I let , uh , my five - year - old have a try at the digits , eh .Professor B: Yeah .Grad E: So , anyway , I can talk about digits . Um , did everyone get the results or shall I go over themagain ? I mean that it was basically {disfmarker} the only thing that was even slightly surprising was that the lapel did so well . Um , and in retrospect that 's not as surprising as maybe i it shouldn't have been assurprising as I {disfmarker} as {disfmarker} as I felt it was . The lapel mike is a very high - quality microphone . And as Morgan pointed out , that there are actually some advantages to it in terms of breath noises andclothes rustling {pause} if no one else is talking .PhD D: Yeah .PhD F: Exactly .Grad E: Um , so , uh {disfmarker}Grad G: Mm - hmm .Professor B: Well , it 's {disfmarker} Yeah , sort of the bre the breath noises andthe mouth clicks and so forth like that , the lapel 's gonna be better on .Grad G: It 's g it {disfmarker}PhD D: Or the cross - talk . Yeah .Professor B: The lapel is typically worse on the {disfmarker} on clothes rustling ,but if no one 's rustling their clothes ,Grad E: Right . I mean , a lot of people are just sort of leaning over and reading the digits ,Professor B: it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker}Grad E: so it 's {disfmarker} it 's a verydifferent task than sort of the natural .PhD D: Yeah . You don't move much during reading digits , I think .Professor B: Yeah .Grad E: So .Professor B: Yeah .Grad E: Right .Grad G: Probably the fact that it picks up otherpeople 's speakers {disfmarker} other people 's talking is an indication of that it {disfmarker} the fact it is a good microphone .PhD D: Yeah .Professor B: Right . So in the digits , in most {disfmarker} most cases ,there weren't other people talking .Grad E: Right . Right .Grad G: So .Professor B: So .PhD F: D do the lapel mikes have any directionality to them ?Professor B: There typically don't , no .PhD F: Because I {disfmarker}I suppose you could make some that have sort of {disfmarker} that you have to orient towards your mouth ,Grad E: They have a little bit ,PhD F: and then it would {disfmarker}Grad E: but they 're not noise -cancelling . So , uh {disfmarker}Professor B: They 're {disfmarker} they 're intended to be omni - directional .Grad E: Right .Professor B: And th it 's {disfmarker} and because you don't know how people are gonna putthem on , you know .PhD F: Mm - hmm .Grad E: Right . So , also , Andreas , on that one the {disfmarker} the back part of it should be right against your head . And that will he keep it from flopping aro up and down asmuch .PhD F: It is against my head .Grad E: OK .Professor B: Yeah . Um . Yeah , we actually talked about this in the , uh , front - end meeting this morning , too . Much the same thing ,Grad E: Uh - huh .Professor B:and {disfmarker} and it was {disfmarker} uh , I mean , there the point of interest to the group was primarily that , um , {vocalsound} the , uh {disfmarker} the system that we had that was based on H T K , that 'sused by , you know , {pause} all the participants in Aurora , {vocalsound} was so much worse {vocalsound} than the {disfmarker} than the S RGrad E: Everybody .Professor B: And the interesting thing is that eventhough , {vocalsound} yes , it 's a digits task and that 's a relatively small number of words and there 's a bunch of digits that you train on , {vocalsound} it 's just not as good as having a {disfmarker} a l very largeamount of data and training up a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a nice good big {vocalsound} HMM . Um , also you had the adaptation in the SRI system , which we didn't have in this . Um . So . Um .PhD F: And weknow {disfmarker} Di - did I send you some results without adaptation ?Grad E: No .Professor B: I s I think Stephane , uh , had seen them .Grad E: Or if you did , I didn't include them , cuz it was{disfmarker}Professor B: So {disfmarker}PhD F: Yeah , I think I did , actually . So there was a significant loss from not doing the adaptation .Professor B: Yeah .PhD F: Um . A {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a couplepercent or some I mean {disfmarker} Well , I don't know it {disfmarker} Overall {disfmarker} Uh , I {disfmarker} I don't remember , but there was {disfmarker} {nonvocalsound} there was a significant , um , loss orwin {comment} from adaptation {disfmarker} with {disfmarker} with adaptation . And , um , that was the phone - loop adaptation . And then there was a very small {disfmarker} like point one percent on the natives{disfmarker} uh , win from doing , um , you know , adaptation to {pause} the recognition hypotheses . And {pause} I tried both means adaptation and means and variances , and the variances added another{disfmarker} or subtracted another point one percent . So , {vocalsound} it 's , um {disfmarker} that 's the number there . Point six , I believe , is what you get with both , uh , means and variance adaptation .Grad E:Right .Professor B: But I think one thing is that , uh , I would presume {disfmarker} Hav - Have you ever t {vocalsound} Have you ever tried this exact same recognizer out on the actual TI - digits test set ?PhD F: Thisexact same recognizer ? No .Professor B: It might be interesting to do that . Cuz my {disfmarker} my {disfmarker} cuz my sense , um {disfmarker}PhD F: But {disfmarker} but , I have {disfmarker} I mean , people{disfmarker} people at SRI are actually working on digits .Grad E: I bet it would do even slightly better .PhD F: I could {disfmarker} and they are using a system that 's , um {disfmarker} you know , h is actuallytrained on digits , um , but h h otherwise uses the same , you know , decoder , the same , uh , training methods , and so forth ,Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD F: and I could ask them what they get {pause} on TI - digits.Professor B: Yeah , bu although I 'd be {disfmarker} I think it 'd be interesting to just take this exact actual system so that these numbers were comparablePhD F: Mm - hmm .Professor B: and try it out on TI - digits.PhD F: Well , Adam knows how to run it ,Professor B: Yeah .Grad E: Yeah . No problem .PhD F: so you just make a fProfessor B: Yeah . Yeah . Cuz our sense from the other {disfmarker} from the Aurora , uh , task isthat {disfmarker}Grad E: And try it with TI - digits ?PhD F: Mm - hmm .Professor B: I mean , cuz we were getting sub one percent {vocalsound} numbers on TI - digits also with the tandem thing .PhD F: Mm - hmm.Professor B: So , {vocalsound} one {disfmarker} so there were a number of things we noted from this .PhD F: Mmm .Professor B: One is , yeah , the SRI system is a lot better than the HTK {disfmarker}PhD F: Hmm.Professor B: this , you know , very limited training HTK system .PhD F: Mm - hmm .Professor B: Uh , but the other is that , um , the digits {vocalsound} recorded here in this room with these close mikes , i uh , areactually a lot harder than the {pause} studio - recording TI - digits . I think , you know , one reason for that , uh , might be that there 's still {disfmarker} even though it 's close - talking , there still is some noise andsome room acoustics .PhD F: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .Professor B: And another might be that , uh , I 'd {disfmarker} I would presume that in the studio , uh , uh , situation recording read speech that if somebody didsomething a little funny or n pronounced something a little funny or made a little {disfmarker} that they didn't include it ,Grad E: They didn't include it .Professor B: they made them do it again .Grad E: Whereas , Itook out {pause} the ones that I noticed that were blatant {disfmarker} that were correctable .Professor B: Mmm . Yeah .Grad E: So that , if someone just read the wrong digit , I corrected it .Professor B: Yeah .GradE: And then there was another one where Jose couldn't tell whether {disfmarker} I couldn't tell whether he was saying zero or six . And I asked him and he couldn't tell either .Grad I: Hmm .Grad E: So I just cut it out.Professor B: Yeah .Grad E: You know , so I just e edited out the first , i uh , word of the utterance . Um , so there 's a little bit of correction but it 's definitely not as clean as TI - digits . So my expectations is TI - digitswould , especially {disfmarker} I think TI - digits is all {pause} American English .Professor B: Mm - hmm .Grad E: Right ? So it would probably do even a little better still on the SRI system , but we could give it a try.PhD F: Well . But {pause} remember , we 're using a telephone bandwidth front - end here , uh , on this , uh {disfmarker} on this SRI system , so , {vocalsound} um , I was {disfmarker} I thought that maybe that 'sactually a good thing because it {disfmarker} it gets rid of some of the {disfmarker} uh , the noises , um , you know , in the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} below and above the {disfmarker} um , the , you know ,speech bandwidthProfessor B: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .PhD F: and , um , I suspect that to get sort of the last bit out of these higher - quality recordings you would have to in fact , uh , use models that , uh , weretrained on wider - band data . And of course we can't do that or {disfmarker}Grad E: Wha - what 's TI - digits ? I thought tProfessor B: It 's wide - band , yeah . It 's {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} in fact , we looked itupGrad E: It is wide - band . OK .Professor B: and it was actually twenty kilohertz sampling .Grad E: Oh , that 's right . I {disfmarker} I did look that up .PhD F: Mm - hmm .Grad E: I couldn't remember whether thatwas TI - digits or one of the other digit tasks .Professor B: Yeah .PhD F: Right . But {disfmarker} but , I would {disfmarker} Yeah . It 's {disfmarker} it 's easy enough to try , just run it on {disfmarker}Professor B:Yeah .Grad E: Mm - hmm .Professor B: See wGrad E: So , Morgan , you 're getting a little breath noise .PhD F: Now , eh , does {disfmarker}Grad E: You might wanna move the mike down a little bit .PhD F: one{disfmarker} one issue {disfmarker} one issue with {disfmarker} with that is that {vocalsound} um , the system has this , uh , notion of a speaker to {disfmarker} which is used in adaptation , variance norm uh , youknow , both in , uh , mean and variance normalization and also in the VTL {pause} estimation .Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD F: So {disfmarker}Grad E: Yeah , I noticed the script that extracted it .PhD F: Do y ? Is{disfmarker} ? So does {disfmarker} so th so does {disfmarker} does , um , {vocalsound} the TI - digits database have speakers that are known ?Grad E: Yep . Yep .PhD F: And is there {disfmarker} is there enoughdata or a comparable {disfmarker} comparable amount of data to {disfmarker} to what we have in our recordings here ?Grad E: That I don't know . I don't know . I don't know how many speakers there are ,ProfessorB: Yeah .Grad E: and {disfmarker} and how many speakers per utterance .PhD F: OK .Professor B: Well , the other thing would be to do it without the adaptation and compare to these numbers without the adaptation .That would {disfmarker}PhD F: Right . Uh , but I 'm not so much worried about the adaptation , actually , than {disfmarker} than the , um , {vocalsound} um {disfmarker} the , uh , VTL estimation .Grad E: Right .PhDF: If you have only one utterance per speaker you might actually screw up on estimating the {disfmarker} the warping , uh , factor . So , um {disfmarker}Grad E: I strongly suspect that they have more speakers thanwe do . So , uh {disfmarker}PhD F: Right . But it 's not the amount of speakers , it 's the num it 's the amount of data per speaker .Grad E: Right . So we {disfmarker} we could probably do an extraction that wasroughly equivalent .PhD F: Right . Right .Grad E: Um .PhD F: So {disfmarker}Grad E: So , although I {disfmarker} I sort of know how to run it , there are a little {disfmarker} a f few details here and there that I 'll haveto {pause} dig out .PhD F: OK . The key {disfmarker} So th the system actually extracts the speaker ID from the waveform names .Grad E: Right . I saw that .PhD F: And there 's a {disfmarker} there 's a script{disfmarker} and that is actually all in one script . So there 's this one script that parses waveform names and extracts things like the , um , speaker , uh , ID or something that can stand in as a speaker ID . So , wemight have to modify that script to recognize the , um , speakers , {vocalsound} um , in the {disfmarker} in the , uh , um , {vocalsound} TI - digits {pause} database .Grad E: Right . Right . And that , uh{disfmarker}PhD F: Or you can fake {disfmarker} you can fake {pause} names for these waveforms that resemble the names that we use here for the {disfmarker} for the meetings .Grad E: Right .PhD F: That wouldbe the , sort of {disfmarker} probably the safest way to do {disfmarker}Grad E: I might have to do that anyway to {disfmarker} to do {disfmarker} because we may have to do an extract to get the {pause} amount ofdata per speaker about right .PhD F: Uh - huh .Grad E: The other thing is , isn't TI - digits isolated digits ?PhD F: Right .Grad E: Or is that another one ? I 'm {disfmarker} I looked through a bunch of the digits t corpcorpora , and now they 're all blurring .Professor B: Mm - hmm .Grad E: Cuz one of them was literally people reading a single digit . And then others were connected digits .Professor B: Yeah . Most of TI - digits isconnected digits , I think .Grad E: OK .Professor B: The {disfmarker} I mean , we had a Bellcore corpus that we were using . It was {disfmarker} {vocalsound} that 's {disfmarker} that was isolated digits .Grad E:Maybe it 's the Bell Gram . Bell Digits . Alright .Professor B: Um .PhD F: By the way , I think we can improve these numbers if we care to compr improve them {vocalsound} by , um , {vocalsound} not starting with theSwitchboard models but by taking the Switchboard models and doing supervised adaptation on a small amount of digit data collected in this setting .Grad E: Yep .PhD F: Because that would adapt your models to theroom acoustics and f for the far - field microphones , you know , to the noise . And that should really improve things , um , further . And then you use those adapted models , which are not speaker adapted but sort ofacous you know , channel adapted {disfmarker}Grad E: Channel adapted .PhD F: use that as the starting models for your speaker adaptation .Professor B: Yeah . {vocalsound} But the thing is , uh {disfmarker} I mean, w when you {disfmarker} it depends whether you 're ju were just using this as a {disfmarker} {vocalsound} a starter task for {disfmarker} you know , to get things going for conversational or if we 're reallyinterested i in connected digits . And I {disfmarker} I think the answer is both . And for {disfmarker} for connected digits over the telephone you don't actually want to put a whole lot of effort into adaptationPhD F:Well , I don't know .Professor B: because {vocalsound} somebody {pause} gets on the phone and says a number and then you just want it . You don't {disfmarker} don't , uh {disfmarker}Postdoc C: This is{disfmarker} this {disfmarker} that one 's better .PhD F: Right .Postdoc C: Mm - hmm .PhD F: Um , but , you know , I {disfmarker} uh , my impression was that you were actually interested in the far - fieldmicrophone , uh , problem , I mean . So , you want to {disfmarker} you want to {disfmarker} That 's the obvious thing to try .Postdoc C: Oh . Oh .Professor B: Right .PhD F: Right ? Then , eh {disfmarker} because you{disfmarker} you don't have any {disfmarker}Postdoc C: Yeah .PhD F: That 's where the most m acoustic mismatch is between the currently used models and the {disfmarker} the r the set up here .Professor B: Right.PhD F: So .Professor B: Yeah . So that 'd be anoth another interesting data point .PhD F: Mm - hmm .Professor B: I mean , I {disfmarker} I guess I 'm saying I don't know if we 'd want to do that as the {disfmarker}as {disfmarker}PhD D: Other way .Grad E: Other way . Liz {disfmarker}PhD A: Now you 're all watching me .Grad E: It f it clips over your ears .PhD A: Alright . This way .Grad E: There you go .Postdoc C: If you have astrong fe if you have a strong preference , you could use this .PhD A: You 're all watching . This is terrible .Postdoc C: It 's just we {disfmarker} we think it has some spikes . So , uh , we {disfmarker} we didn't use thatone .PhD A: I 'll get it .Postdoc C: But you could if you want .Professor B: Yeah . At any rate , I don't know if wPostdoc C: I don't know . And Andre - Andreas , your {disfmarker} your microphone 's a little bit low.Professor B: Yeah .PhD F: It is ?Professor B: I don't know if we wanna use that as the {disfmarker}Postdoc C: Yeah .Grad E: Uh , it pivots .PhD F: Uh .Postdoc C: So if you see the pictureGrad E: It {disfmarker} it{disfmarker} like this .PhD F: I I {disfmarker}Postdoc C: and then you have to scrPhD F: I {disfmarker} I already adjusted this a number of times .Grad E: Eh .PhD F: I {disfmarker} IGrad E: Yeah , I think these mikesare not working as well as I would like .PhD F: can't quite seem to {disfmarker} Yeah , I think this contraption around your head is not {pause} working so well .Professor B: Too many adju too many adjustments .Yeah . Anyway , what I was saying is that I {disfmarker} I think I probably wouldn't want to see that as sort of like the norm , that we compared all things to .Postdoc C: That looks good . Yeah .Professor B: To , uh ,the {disfmarker} to have {disfmarker} have all this ad all this , uh , adaptation . But I think it 's an important data point , if you 're {disfmarker} if {disfmarker} Yeah .PhD F: Right .Professor B: Um . The other thingthat {disfmarker} that , uh {disfmarker} of course , what Barry was looking at was {disfmarker} was just that , the near versus far . And , yeah , the adaptation would get {vocalsound} th some of that .PhD F: Mm -hmm .Professor B: But , I think even {disfmarker} even if there was , uh , only a factor of two or something , like I was saying in the email , I think that 's {disfmarker} {vocalsound} that 's a big factor . So"}
{"doc_id":"doc_129","qid":"","text":"Grad C: Now can you give me the uh {pause} remote T ?Professor D: OK , so Eva , co uh {disfmarker} could you read your numbers ?Grad A: Go ahead and read . OK .Professor D: Yeah .Grad C: Alright .Professor D:Yeah , let 's get started . Um {disfmarker} Hopefully Nancy will come , if not , she won't .Grad B: Uh , Robert , do you uh have any way to turn off your uh screensaver on there so that it 's not going off every{disfmarker} uh , it seems to have about at two minute {disfmarker}Grad C: Yeah , I 've {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} it 's not that I didn't try .Grad B: OK .Grad C: and um I {disfmarker} I told it tostay on forever and ever , but if it 's not plugged in it just doesn't obey my commands .Grad B: OK .Grad C: It has a mind .Grad B: Got it .Grad C: But I I just {disfmarker} You know , sort of keep on wiggling.Undergrad E: Wants to conserve .Grad B: Yeah , OK .Grad C: But uh {disfmarker} we 'll just be m m working on it at intensity so it doesn't happen . We 'll see . Should we plunge right into it ?Professor D: Yeah .GradC: So , would you like to {disfmarker}Professor D: I think so .Grad C: So what I 've tried to do here is list all the decision nodes that we have identified on this {pause} side . Commented and {disfmarker} what they 'reabout and sort of {disfmarker} the properties we may um give them . And here are the uh {disfmarker} tasks to be implemented via our data collection . So all of these tasks {disfmarker} The reading is out of thesetasks more or less imply that the user wants to go there , sometime or the other . And analogously for example , here we have our EVA um {disfmarker} intention . And these are the data tasks where w we can assumethe person would like to enter , view or just approach the thing . Analogously the same on the object information we can see that , you know , we have sort of created these tasks before we came up with our decisionnodes so there 's a lot of things where we have no analogous tasks , and {pause} that may or may not be a problem . We can change the tasks slightly if we feel that we should have data for e sort of for every decisionnode so {disfmarker} trying to im um {disfmarker} implant the intention of going to a place now , going to a place later on the same tour , or trying to plant the intention of going sometime on the next tour , or thenext day or whenever .Professor D: Right , right .Grad C: But I think that might be overdoing it a little .Professor D: So {disfmarker} Yeah . So let me pop up a level . And uh s s make sure that we 're all oriented thesame . So What we 're gonna do today is two related things . Uh one of them is to work on the semantics of the belief - net which is going to be the main inference engine for thi the system uh making decisions . Anddecisions are going to turn out to be parameter choices for calls on other modules . so f the natural language understanding thing is uh , we think gonna only have to choose parameters , but You know , a fairly large setof parameters . So to do that , we need to do two things . One of which is figure out what all the choices are , which we 've done a fair amount . Then we need to figure out what influences its choices and finally we haveto do some technical work on the actual belief relations and presumably estimates of the probabilities and stuff . But we aren't gonna do the probability stuff today . Technical stuff we 'll do {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker}another day . Probably next week . But we are gonna worry about all the decisions and the things that pert that contribute to them . And we 're also , sort of uh in the same process , going to work with Fey on whatthere should be in the dialogues . So One of the s steps that 's coming up real soon is to actually get subjects uh {disfmarker} in here , and have them actually record like this . Uh record dialogues more or less . And{disfmarker} depending on what Fey sort of provokes them to say , we 'll get information on different things .Grad C: Well how people phrase different intentions more or less ,Professor D: So {disfmarker} Fo - v yeahpeople with the {disfmarker} phrase themGrad C: huh ?Professor D: and so {disfmarker} Uh for , you know , Keith and people worrying about what constructions people use , uh {disfmarker} we have some i we havesome ways to affect that by the way the dialogues go . So what Robert kindly did , is to lay out a table of the kinds of uh {pause} things that {disfmarker} that might come up , and , the kinds of decisions . So the uh{disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} on the left are decision nodes , and discreet values . So if {disfmarker} if we 're right , you can get by with um just this middle column worth of decisions , and it 's not all that many , andit 's perfectly feasible technically to build belief - nets that will do that . And he has a handout .Grad C: Yeah . Maybe it was too fast plunging in there , because j we have two updates .Professor D: Yeah .Grad C: Umyou can look at this if you want , these are what our subject 's going to have to fill out . Any comments I can {disfmarker} can still be made and the changes will be put in correspondingly .Undergrad E: m {vocalsound}{vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Yes .Grad C: Let me summarize in two sentences , mainly for Eva 's benefit , who probably has not heard about the data collection , at all .Grad A:OK .Grad C: Or have you heard about it ?Grad A: Not that much you didn't .Grad C: No . OK . We were gonna put this in front of people . They give us some information on themselves .Grad A: OK .Grad C: Then{disfmarker} then they will read uh {disfmarker} a task where lots of German words are sort of thrown in between . And um {disfmarker} and they have to read isolated proper names And these change{disfmarker}Professor D: S I don't see a releaseGrad C: No , this is not the release form . This is the speaker information form .Professor D: Got it . OK , fine . OK .Grad C: The release form is over there in that box.Professor D: Alright , fair enough .Grad C: And um {disfmarker} And then they gonna have to f um um choose from one of these tasks , which are listed here . They {disfmarker} they pick a couple , say three{disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} uh six as a matter of fact . Six different things they sort of think they would do if they were in Heidelberg or traveling someplace {disfmarker} and um {disfmarker} and they have a map.Grad B: Hmm .Grad C: Like this . Very sketchy , simplified map . And they can take notes on that map . And then they call this computer system that works perfectly , and understands everything .Grad A: OK .Grad C:And um {disfmarker}Grad B: This is a fictional system obviously ,Grad C: The comp Yeah , the computer system sits right in front of you ,Grad B: huh .Grad C: that 's Fey .Undergrad E: I 've {disfmarker} I understandeverything .Professor D: And she does know everything .Undergrad E: Yes I do .Grad C: And she has a way of making this machine talk . So she can copy sentences into a window , or type really fast and this machinewill use speech synthesis to produce that . So if you ask \" How do I get to the castle \" then a m s several seconds later it 'll come out of here \" In order to get to the castle you do {disfmarker} \"Grad B: Yeah .Grad C:OK ? And um {disfmarker} And then after three tasks the system breaks down . And Fey comes on the phone as a human operator . And says \" Sorry the system broke down but let 's continue . \" And we sort of get theidea what people do when they s think they speak to a machine and what people say when they think they speak to a human , or know , or assume they speak to a human .Grad A: OK . Huh .Grad B: Mm - hmm . Mm -hmm .Grad C: That 's the data collection . And um {disfmarker} And Fey has some thirty subjects lined up ? Something ?Undergrad E: Yeah .Grad C: And um {disfmarker} And they 're {disfmarker} r ready uh{disfmarker} to roll .Undergrad E: And more and more every day .Grad C: And we 're gonna start tomorrow at three ? four ? one ?Undergrad E: Tomorrow , well we don't know for sure . Because we don't know whetherthat person is coming or not ,Grad C: OK . Around four - ish .Undergrad E: but {disfmarker}Grad C: And um we 're still l looking for a room on the sixth floor because they stole away that conference room . Um{disfmarker} behind our backs . But {disfmarker}Professor D: Well , there are these {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} oh , I see , we have to {disfmarker} Yeah , it 's tricky . We 'll {disfmarker} let 's{disfmarker} let {disfmarker} we 'll do that off - line , OK .Grad C: Yeah , but I {disfmarker} i i it 's happening . David and {disfmarker} and Jane and {disfmarker} and Lila are working on that as we speak .ProfessorD: OK .Grad C: OK . That was the uh {disfmarker} the data collection in a nutshell . And um {disfmarker} I can report a {disfmarker} so I did this but I also tried to do this {disfmarker} so if I click on here , Isn't thiswonderful ? we get to the uh {disfmarker} uh belief - net just focusing on {disfmarker} on the g Go - there node . uh {disfmarker} Analogously this would be sort of the reason node and the timing node and so forth.Grad B: Mm - hmm .Grad C: And what w what happened is that um design - wise I 'd sort of n noticed that we can {disfmarker} we still get a lot of errors from a lot of points to one of these sub Go - there User Go -there Situation nodes . So I came up with a couple of additional nodes here where um whether the user is thrifty or not , and what his budget is currently like , is going to result in some financial state of the user . Howmuch will he {disfmarker} is he willing to spend ? Or can spend . Being the same at this {disfmarker} just the money available , which may influence us , whether he wants to go there if it is {disfmarker} you know{disfmarker} charging tons of dollars for admission or its gonna g cost a lot of t e whatever . Twenty - two million to fly to International Space Station , you know . just {disfmarker} Not all people can do that .ProfessorD: Right .Grad C: So , and this actually turned out to be pretty key , because having specified sort of these {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} this {disfmarker} this {disfmarker} intermediate level Um and sort of noticingthat everything that happens here {disfmarker} let 's go to our favorite endpoint one is again more or less {disfmarker} we have {disfmarker} um {disfmarker} then the situation nodes contributing to the {disfmarker}the endpoint situation node , which contributes to the endpoint and so forth . um {disfmarker} I can now sort of draw straight lines from these to here , meaning it g of course goes where the sub - S {disfmarker}everything that comes from situation , everything that comes from user goes with the sub - U , and whatever we specify for the so - called \" Keith node \" , or the discourse , what comes from the {disfmarker} um{disfmarker} parser , construction parser , um will contribute to the D and the ontology to the sub - O node . And um one just s sort of has to watch which {disfmarker} also final decision node so it doesn't make sense{disfmarker} t to figure out whether he wants to enter , view or approach an object if he never wants to go there in the first place . But this makes the design thing fairly simple . And um now all w that 's left to do thenis the CPG 's , the conditional probabilities , for the likelihood of a person having enough money , actually wanting to go a place if it costs , you know this or that . And um {disfmarker} OK . and once um Bhaskara hasfinished his classwork that 's where we 're gonna end up doing . You get involved in that process too . And um {disfmarker} And for now uh the {disfmarker} the question is \" How much of these decisions do we want tobuild in explicitly into our data collection ? \" So {disfmarker} Um , one could {disfmarker} sort of {disfmarker} think of {disfmarker} you know we could call the z see or {disfmarker} you know , people who visit thezoo we could s call it \" Visit the zoo tomorrow \" , so we have an intention of seeing something , but not now {disfmarker} but later .Professor D: Right . Yeah . Yeah , so {disfmarker} let 's s uh s see I th I think thatfrom one point of view , Uh , um , all these places are the same , so that d d That , um {disfmarker} in terms of the linguistics and stuff , there may be a few different kinds of places , so I th i it seems to me that Weought to decide you know , what things are k are actually going to matter to us . And um , so the zoo , and the university and the castle , et cetera . Um are all big - ish things that um {disfmarker} you know{disfmarker} have different parts to them , and one of them might be fine .Grad C: Hmm . Hmm , hmm . Yeah {disfmarker} The {disfmarker} the reason why we did it that way , as a {disfmarker} as a reminder , is uh{disfmarker} no person is gonna do all of them .Professor D: And {disfmarker}Grad C: They 're just gonna select u um , according to their preferences .Professor D: Yeah , yeah .Grad C: \" Ah , yeah , I usually visit zoos, or I usually visit castles , or I usually {disfmarker} \" And then you pick that one .Professor D: Right , no no , but {disfmarker} but s th point is to {disfmarker} to y to {disfmarker} build a system that 's got everythingin it that might happen you do one thing .Undergrad E: They 're redundant .Professor D: T to build a system that um {disfmarker} had the most data on a relatively confined set of things , you do something else . Andthe speech people , for example , are gonna do better if they {disfmarker} if {disfmarker} things come up uh {disfmarker} repeatedly . Now , of course , if everybody says exactly the same thing then it 's notinteresting . So , all I 'm saying is i th there 's {disfmarker} there 's a kind of question of what we 're trying t to accomplish . and {disfmarker} I think my temptation for the data gathering would be to uh , you know{disfmarker} And each person is only gonna do it once , so you don't have to worry about them being bored , so if {disfmarker} if it 's one service , one luxury item , you know , one big - ish place , and so forth and soon , um {disfmarker} then my guess is that {disfmarker} that the data is going to be easier to handle . Now of course you have this I guess possible danger that somehow there 're certain constructions that people useuh when talking about a museum that they wouldn't talk about with a university and stuff , um {disfmarker} but I guess I 'm {disfmarker} I uh m my temptation is to go for simpler . You know , less variation . But Idon't know what other people think about this in terms of {disfmarker}Grad B: So I don't exactly understand {disfmarker}Professor D: uh {disfmarker}Grad B: like I I {disfmarker} I guess we 're trying to {disfmarker}limit the detail of our ontology or types of places that someone could go , right ? But who is it that has to care about this , or what component of the system ?Professor D: Oh , well , uh {disfmarker} th I think there aretwo places where it comes up . One is uh {disfmarker} in the {disfmarker} th these people who are gonna take this and {disfmarker} and try to do speech with it .Grad B: Mm - hmm .Professor D: uh {disfmarker} Lotsof pronunciations of th of the same thing are going to give you better data than l you know , a few pronunciations of lots more things .Grad B: OK .Professor D: That 's one .Grad B: So we would rather just ask{disfmarker} uh have a bunch of people talk about the zoo , uh and assume that that will {disfmarker} that the constructions that they use there will give us everything we need to know about these sort of zoo , castle, whatever type things , these bigger places .Professor D: Bigger {disfmarker} Y yeah thi well this is a question for {disfmarker}Grad B: And that way you get the speech data of people saying \" zoo \" over and overagain or whatever too .Professor D: Yeah . Yeah .Grad B: OK .Professor D: Yeah . So this is a question for you ,Grad B: Mm - hmm .Professor D: and , you know , if we {disfmarker} if we do , and we probably will ,actually try to uh build a prototype , uh probably we could get by with the prototype only handling a few of them anyway . So , Um {disfmarker}Grad C: Yeah , the this was sort of {disfmarker} these are all differentsort of activities . Um But I think y I {disfmarker} I got the point and I think I like it . We can do {disfmarker} put them in a more hierarchical fashion . So , \" Go to place \" and then give them a choice , you know eitherthey 're the symphony type or opera type or the tourist site guide type or the nightclub disco type person and they say \" yeah this is {disfmarker} on that \" go to big - ish place \" ,Grad B: Mm - hmm .Grad C: this iswhat I would do . \" And then we have the \" Fix \" thing , and then maybe \" Do something the other day \" thing , so . My question is {disfmarker} I guess , to some extent , we should {disfmarker} y we just have to try itout and see if it works . It would be challenging , in {disfmarker} in a sense , to try to make it so {disfmarker} so complex that they even really should schedule , or to plan it , uh , a more complex thing in terms of OK, you know , they should get the feeling that there are these s six things they have to do and they sh can be done maybe in two days .Professor D: Well {disfmarker} yeah .Grad C: So they make these decisions,Professor D: Well I think th thGrad C: \" Can I go there tomorrow ? \"Professor D: yeah .Grad C: or {disfmarker} you know {disfmarker} influencesGrad B: Mm - hmm .Professor D: Yeah . Well , I think it 's easy enoughto set that up if that 's your expectation . So , the uh system could say , \" Well , uh we 'd like to {disfmarker} to set up your program for two days in Heidelberg , you know , let 's first think about all the things youmight like to do . So there {disfmarker} th i i in {disfmarker} I mean {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} I th I {disfmarker} I 'm sure that if that 's what you did then they would start telling you about that , and then youcould get into um various things about ordering , if you wanted .Grad C: Mm - hmm . Yeah . Yeah , but I think this is part of the instructor 's job . And that can be done , sort of to say , \" OK now we 've picked these sixtasks . \" \" Now you have you can call the system and you have two days . \"Professor D: I 'm sorry .Grad C: And th wProfessor D: No , we have to help {disfmarker} we have to decide . Fey will p carry out whatever wedecide . But we have to decide you know , what is the appropriate scenario . That 's what we 're gonna talk about t yeah .Grad C: Yep , yep .PhD F: But these are two different scenarios entirely . I mean , one is aplanner {disfmarker} The other , it kind of give you instructions on the spotGrad C: Yeah , but th the {disfmarker} I don't {disfmarker} I 'm not really interested in sort of \" Phase planning \" capabilities . But it 's morethe {disfmarker} how do people phrase these planning requests ? So are we gonna masquerade the system as this {disfmarker} as you said simple response system , \" I have one question I get one response \" , orshould we allow for a certain level of complexity . And a I w think the data would be nicer if we get temporal references .Professor D: Well , so Keith , what do you think ?Grad B: Well , um it seems that {disfmarker}Yeah , I mean , off the top of my head it kinda seems like you would probably just want , you know , richer data , more complex stuff going on , people trying to do more complex sets of things . I mean {pause} youknow , if our goal is to really sort of be able to handle a whole bunch of different stuff , then throwing harder situations at people will get them to do more linguistic {disfmarker} more interesting linguistic stuff . But Imean {disfmarker} I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm not really sure Uh , because I don't fully understand like what our choices are of ways to do this here yet .Grad C: I mean w we have tested this and a y have you heard{disfmarker} listen to the f first two or th as a matter of fact the second person is uh {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} was faced with exactly this kind of setup .Grad B: I started to listen to one and it was just like , um ,uh , sort of depressing .Grad C: And {disfmarker}Grad B: I thought I 'd just sort of listen to the beginning part and the person was just sort of reading off her script or something . And .Grad C: Oh , OK . That was thefirst subject .Professor D: Yeah .Grad B: Yeah .Professor D: First one wasn't very good .Grad B: Yeah .Grad C: Yeah .Grad B: So um , I {disfmarker}Grad C: Um , it is {disfmarker} already with this it got pretty{disfmarker} with this setup and that particular subject it got pretty complex .Undergrad E: Although {disfmarker}Grad B: Mm - hmm .Grad C: Maybe {disfmarker} I suggest we make some fine tuning of these , get{disfmarker} sort of {disfmarker} run through ten or so subjectsGrad B: Mm - hmm .Grad C: and then take a breather , and see whether we wanna make it more complex or not , depending on what {disfmarker} whatsort of results we 're getting .Grad B: Right . Yeah . It {disfmarker} In fact , um , I am just you know {disfmarker} today , next couple days gonna start really diving into this data . I 've basically looked at one of the"}
{"doc_id":"doc_130","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Okay , so now we are on the conceptual design meeting . {vocalsound} Uh y getting close to the lastMarketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: is the penultim meeting . {vocalsound}{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: How was lunch ? {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Mm great . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Thanks {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: Don't be sarcastic . {vocalsound} Mark . {vocalsound}Project Manager: So {vocalsound} um I will again do the secretary part uh we will have three presentationfirst um uh the industrial design , first Rama then Mark and then Sammy .Marketing: Uh Rama .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Ramaro .Project Manager: Um um we have to take a decision on the control{disfmarker} remote control concepts and we have forty minutes .User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: So what we want to {disfmarker} the decision we want to take on this meeting are on the um first on thecomponent concept , so what kind of energy we use uh what kind of chip on print and one ki kind of case . And also on user interface concept uh what kind of interface we use and if there is some supplements . And atthe end um Sammy will give um {vocalsound} a trend watching on what he's {disfmarker} he's been doing . It's {disfmarker} So , let's go . First with Rama . Participant two .Industrial Designer: Yeah , participant two .Component .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yep . So we're to mainly design f mainly need to know which components we'll use for energy , and the material and interface . For energythere are maybe two or three possibilities . First one , we can use simple battery , or we can use {vocalsound} traditional solar cells or {disfmarker} mm and the material we can have plastic , rubber which is good forthis R_S_A_Marketing: Ah .Industrial Designer: and then uh titanium , which can be {disfmarker} which have very good look an and then interface we're to use push buttons or liquid crystal d L_C_D_ display . And wecan use some {gap} , moving {gap} kind of thing . So , as we discussed before , we need to {disfmarker} we would like to have some speech recognition s chip in our remote control . So this can be simple kind ofprogrammable chip and {disfmarker} which can use microphone {gap} sensors . And we also want to look at our remote control , so . Still we are looking for possible uh technical uh specifications and how w easy wecan do and within our pri range , like we're to {disfmarker} in our twelve Euros or around that . So we are looking for simple devices or simple technology to do the location of remote control in a room or in a house.Project Manager: Mm-hmm , okay .Industrial Designer: So uh we discussed an {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Excuse me . So we would like to propose battery instead of solar cells and it would be problematic uh to haveenough energy with the solar cellsMarketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: and so we would like to just use simple battery . And also we want to go for titanium design instead of rubber or {disfmarker} and well theproblem is with this design we found that we can't use double-curved shapes .Marketing: What is a double-curved shape ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Like you can have two curves .Marketing: Uh-huh .UserInterface: Why ?Industrial Designer: Uh it's {disfmarker} I think in manufacturing I guess it's problematic . So , we want to go for simple push buttons because it need a simple chip and it's really lesser {disfmarker} uhre really less expensive compared to L_C_D_Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: which are uh which needs advanced chip technology and it's more expensive ,User Interface: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer:since we want to put some other features such as speech recognitionMarketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: we want to reduce uh cost .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um I want to know why it b uh just uh sorrybut for the point before uh why not the rubber , if it is something that it seems to be light .Marketing: The cost .Industrial Designer: Uh {disfmarker} Uh {disfmarker} And also like in {disfmarker} if you put a {gap} it'sbe difficult to do all the moulding of buttons and these thingsProject Manager: Okay . You m titanium it's more uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: and {disfmarker} Yeah .User Interface: W we can use something likeyou know {vocalsound} the whole body's titanium but there are some rubber or I dunno some rubber parts likeIndustrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Mm like this ?Project Manager: Yes so mm {disfmarker}UserInterface: to make it feel better and to you know {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Like in cell phones recentlyProject Manager: Uh-huh .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah . Yeah .Industrial Designer: these{disfmarker} you can {gap} with the rubber in four directions and {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Okay . {gap}Industrial Designer: yeah . But full assembly {disfmarker} We'll use mainly fortitanium {gap}Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: rubber is expensiveProject Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: and also it's bit difficult to do all the shapes uh .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer:And this push buttonsProject Manager: Uh yeah soIndustrial Designer: {disfmarker} we we would like to use push buttons instead of L_C_D_s and so we want to mo I mean we're {gap} we want to put speechrecognition so we want to reduce price on this technology and so that we can have enough space or enough moneyProject Manager: Okay , s so simple button and uh speech recognition for the more complicated.Industrial Designer: for {disfmarker} S SMarketing: Speech {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Y yeah we have simple buttons and speech recognition technology ,User Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Okay .UserInterface: Okay , and still we have {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: so {disfmarker}User Interface: mm can we still include the L_ L_S_D_ display ?Marketing: L_C_D_ .User Interface: L_C_D_ yeah L_C_D_ .IndustrialDesigner: Uh lMarketing: Seems not , it's either L_C_D_ or push-button .Industrial Designer: So uhUser Interface: No ,Industrial Designer: it's like a {disfmarker}User Interface: it's not gonna be a t no touchable butstill like a source of information or source for menus .Marketing: Ah .Industrial Designer: Yeah maybe maybe we can see depending on how we'll come up with our full design then if we have enough money or like forand {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay , so let's try it , let's tIndustrial Designer: because the speech recognition technology will take at least five Euros or {gap} or something so we want to reduce the cost ondisplayMarketing: {gap} The L_C_D_ would {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: or this interMarketing: The display would only be display and not uh touch sensitive you mean .User Interface: Yeah , yeah , it's it's notgonna be a touch pad , uh just a display for giving you information .Marketing: Just uh for output , yeah .Industrial Designer: Ok Yeah , that can we we can consider ,Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: because like it won't take much money I guess ,User Interface: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: because {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: Okay , yep .ProjectManager: {gap} Mm .Industrial Designer: You have any further questions or ?Marketing: I guess no um . So the batteries uh are going to be very light .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Yeah , we're to go for li and now Ithink we have many options in the market so we can go for small nickel or alkaline batteriesMarketing: Okay .User Interface: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: for really light batteries and with uh good price.Marketing: So this device on n that can be used for speech recognition could also be used for just uh the finding it basically , instead of clapping why not just be {disfmarker} ask .Industrial Designer: Yeah , that's{disfmarker} then the the one thing we want to know is like because remote control is used for like in the household so it it it will be it {disfmarker} m maybe at least five , six people want to use it so so how to uh uhhow to define our re speech recognitionMarketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: whether we want to do s speaker independent or speaker dependent . If we're going for more speaker independent then it would be likeagain cumbersome and we need really m more technologyProject Manager: Okay ,Industrial Designer: and so {disfmarker}Project Manager: for the location . Hmm .Industrial Designer: Yeah , if if everybody in thehouse n {gap} to locate then we're to go for some speaker independent technology or something .Marketing: Okay . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay . So let's now go to the {disfmarker} you don't have morequestion ?Industrial Designer: {gap}Marketing: No , it's okay .Project Manager: Um mm thank you mm .User Interface: No more questions .Industrial Designer: Yep . Thank you .Marketing: Puts less of constraint onwhat we can doProject Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Mm yeah , yeah .Marketing: butIndustrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: it's always like that . We have dreams and the {disfmarker} in the end we find out that it'snot feasible . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah , but {disfmarker} mm .Industrial Designer: Oh . We have uh some limitations {gap} . {vocalsound}Marketing: Anyway . {vocalsound} Yeah .User Interface: But stilluh L_S_D_'s already quite nice ,Marketing: L_C_D_ .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay . {vocalsound}User Interface: L_C_ {vocalsound}Marketing: L_S_D_ is something else ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}{vocalsound}Marketing: and it's quite nice as well . {vocalsound}User Interface: I'm an artist , sorry . {vocalsound}Marketing: So ,Project Manager: Um {vocalsound} yeah .User Interface: So uh , that's not{disfmarker}Marketing: go on uh artist . {vocalsound}User Interface: I hope that's not too much .Project Manager: Now let's talk about uh interface .User Interface: Okay . {vocalsound} Uh participant number three.Project Manager: Three .Industrial Designer: Three .User Interface: {vocalsound} UhProject Manager: Which one ? {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Hmm . {vocalsound}User Interface: mmmm uh have a look at this {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: no it's {disfmarker} yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay .User Interface: {gap} Uh so theconcept of the interface . Generally I developed quite a broad concept not only for the interface , but for possible instruction or user's manual and uh all the complex things that come together with your T_V_ andremote controls . So let's start with this . We got our perfect remote control with a lot of buttonsMarketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: and uh we got explanation for every buttonIndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}User Interface: and you can use your time and uh it will take i some days to learn all this buttons and um the L_C_D_ is going to be somewhere here and uh go back button , I don't know reallywhere it is , maybe one of this buttons , and um power on and off mm I I don't rememberProject Manager: {vocalsound} Mm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: souh it it it should be maybe this button is power on and off ? Or no {gap} ? I can see nothing . So that's our concept . It's called the millennium remote control .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Let's changemillenniums . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} SoUser Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: maybe you can use {gap} in the end and {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: {gap} doesn't make sense .This is very {vocalsound} ugly .User Interface: Really ? {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: I thought you like it . Ah okayMarketing: Oh no ,User Interface: just press the button , please uh .{vocalsound}Marketing: too much concept .Project Manager: No .Marketing: Ah .Industrial Designer: Uh {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah , we will not use this . We will not usethis .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: But instead of this I will devise {disfmarker} That's our concept .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Ah , back today . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}User Interface: And it's got just few buttons , quite low looking , and all this stuff we already we already discussed .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . 'Kay .User Interface: And uh what will people say ? They'llsay it's perfect . Or what will say ? Uh they will say it's splendid . And uh e everyone will say I'll buy it .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: {gap} Do youthink it can come in several colours ?User Interface: And everyone's gonna be satisfied .Marketing: Or did the {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} I would make a backlight of the L_C_D_ screen with differentcolours .Marketing: Um but not the case .User Interface: Not the case .Marketing: Uh the case would only be in that uh aluminium uh titanium stuff ,User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: like {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: Mm .Project Manager: Because apparently from your survey people like colours , no ?Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah , well they like uh something which is uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay ,so let's remember there's a Nokia phone which changeable panels .Marketing: Mm yeah , okay ,User Interface: Do you like it ?Marketing: so that would be the option . I don't know I don't have a Nokia phone ,ProjectManager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} But it's uh {disfmarker}Marketing: but I don't use that but again , uh I might {disfmarker}User Interface: That's why you don't have it . That's why ,Marketing:Yeah ,User Interface: 'cause it's nasty . {vocalsound}Marketing: bu but {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} But it would be expensive , no ? If you use colourL_C_D_ .User Interface: No .Industrial Designer: Uh instead of that maybe we can change the colour of the assembler .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Maybe we can just {disfmarker} if users want morecolours they can pay more money to get this uh the shapes and they can have different assembly .User Interface: Um , I am here .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: So users have different {disfmarker} Imean they have their own interests , colour interests and so {disfmarker}Project Manager: So ?User Interface: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: So we can just {disfmarker} if they want they can just pay another twoEuro .Project Manager: Uh-huh , okay , soUser Interface: 'Kay .Project Manager: you you propose something with option i that increase the price if we {disfmarker} if you want o more colours {vocalsound} on L_C_D_,Industrial Designer: Yeah . Yeah yeah yes . If they want like uh {disfmarker} so that we can {disfmarker} yeah .Marketing: Kind of upgradable uh {vocalsound} remote control .Project Manager: yeah .IndustrialDesigner: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Wow , wow .Industrial Designer: Just they'll get few more things and few more colours .User Interface: Okay , what uh {disfmarker} there's one more decisi uh onemore solution in fact , um {vocalsound} 'cause there are some some paints that can change colour according to where they are , like they can reflect different colours depending on what is around , like what colour isaround , and depending on the temperature ,Industrial Designer: Lights , yeah .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: And thermodynamic also . Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Like a chameleon .ProjectManager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah yeah .User Interface: We can make it in fact .Project Manager: Yeah but that's maybe mo too much expensive , yeah .User Interface: If if if the{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: okay .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: But uh it can be in uh maybe in an {disfmarker} a gradable version ,User Interface: Mm-hmm , mm-hmm ,ProjectManager: but {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: so {disfmarker}Marketing: Because uh I think there are two kinds of people . Those for which the remote control is uh is to be uh something usefuluh I'm going to talk about this later but {disfmarker} and those for which is something that that that uh is uh specific to them so it it's like a signature . My remote control is pink . Nobody else than me has a pinkremote control .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Uh-huh .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} And that makes me special .Project Manager: OkayMarketing: {vocalsound}ProjectManager: and you think that we don't have to make to make them pay more because of {vocalsound} uh o or this is {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I think I think they would beready p ready to pay more for that .Project Manager: Okay , soMarketing: Those who wanted to have it pink .Project Manager: so {vocalsound} i it's not uh a s base serviceIndustrial Designer: Uh{disfmarker}Marketing: No mm no .Project Manager: it's a {disfmarker}User Interface: So ,Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: {gap} be an option ,Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: yeah .Marketing: It mightbe optional , yeah .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: But those people will be really few , no ? So like we can {gap} those {disfmarker}Marketing: The the young people the young people want to be differentfrom their friends .Industrial Designer: Ah .Marketing: Although similar but have something just slightly better . Pink {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: So msoIndustrial Designer: Mm . {vocalsound}Project Manager: maybe that's {disfmarker} {vocalsound} if that it's a selling point maybe it has to be the base .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah , yeah ,Marketing: Mm .Yeah .User Interface: yeah . But you know if you want to be different you just take your remote control with you all the time .Project Manager: {vocalsound} And you'll be different .User Interface: {vocalsound} And itmakes you different ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah , yeah .User Interface: you know ?Marketing: You always have your remote .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh in the train uh , hello uh no .{vocalsound} Want to change my neighbour .User Interface: Anyone has their remote controls here ?Marketing: Oh , you don't ? {vocalsound} Yeah . You don't have your remo {vocalsound}User Interface: No ?{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Wh you you know like for instance take the iPod . It's a kind of remote control . {vocalsound} Uh it's whiteUser Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: and it's sowhite that you see it from any anywhere .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: It has this distinctive look and feel and look {gap} which people seems to like {vocalsound}User Interface: Okay .Marketing: just because it's{vocalsound} a colour that we don't usually see in a remote control . White .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Uh-huh , uh-huh . Could we integrate something into our remote control , something like light?Marketing: Seems important .Industrial Designer: Hmm .User Interface: That they can use it in darkness , like . Hand light ,Marketing: Mm {gap} glow in the dark ,Industrial Designer: {gap}Project Manager:{vocalsound}User Interface: yeah .Industrial Designer: YeahMarketing: so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: maybe like the infrared like we can put some radium chips or somethingMarketing: {vocalsound}UserInterface: {vocalsound} Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: so that like {disfmarker} at least um {disfmarker}Project Manager: Iradium ? {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound} Okay . Okay.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {gap} {vocalsound} Yeah ,Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Ah sorry . Mm .Industrial Designer: that {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay . So mm{disfmarker}User Interface: Okay . S well ,Marketing: Okay .User Interface: let's go on maybe with the presentation .Marketing: Yeah . Uh-huh , yeah sure . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm-hmm .{vocalsound}User Interface: And um the remote control's going to be smartIndustrial Designer: Oh .User Interface: but how smart should it be to not to complicate things too much ?Project Manager: {vocalsound}UserInterface: And uhIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: I dunnoMarketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: that's a question to you and to mm to {disfmarker}Marketing: Well so I heard that uh it seems that"}
{"doc_id":"doc_131","qid":"","text":"Grad A: Hey , you 're not supposed to be drinking in here dude .Grad D: OK .Grad A: Do we have to read them that slowly ? OK . Sounded like a robot . Um , this is tGrad C: OK .Grad A: When you read the numbers itkind of reminded me of beat poetry .Grad D: I tried to go for the EE Cummings sort of feeling , but {disfmarker}Grad A: Three three six zero zero . Four two zero zero one seven . That 's what I think of when I think ofbeat poetry .Grad C: Beat poetry .Grad A: You ever seen \" So I married an axe murderer \" ?Grad C: Uh parts of it .Grad D: Mm - hmm .Grad A: There 's a part wh there 's parts when he 's doing beat poetry .Grad C: Ohyeah ?Grad A: And he talks like that . That 's why I thi That uh probably is why I think of it that way .Grad D: Hmm . No , I didn't see that movie . Who did {disfmarker} who made that ?Grad A: Mike Meyers is the guy.Grad D: Oh . OK .Grad A: It - it 's his uh {disfmarker} it 's his cute romantic comedy . That 's {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} That 's his cute romantic comedy , yeah . The other thing that 's real funny , I 'll spoil itfor you . is when he 's {disfmarker} he works in a coffee shop , in San Francisco , and uh he 's sitting there on this couch and they bring him this massive cup of espresso , and he 's like \" excuse me I ordered the largeespresso ? \"Grad D: Uh . We 're having , {vocalsound} a tiramisu tasting contest this weekend .Grad A: Wait {disfmarker} do are y So you 're trying to decide who 's the best taster of tiramisu ?Grad D: No ? Um . Therewas a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a fierce argument that broke out over whose tiramisu might be the best and so we decided to have a contest where those people who claim to make good tiramisu make them ,GradA: Ah .Grad D: and then we got a panel of impartial judges that will taste {disfmarker} do a blind taste {vocalsound} and then vote .Grad A: Hmm .Grad D: Should be fun .Grad A: Seems like {disfmarker} Seems likeyou could put a s magic special ingredient in , so that everyone know which one was yours . Then , if you were to bribe them , you could uh {disfmarker}Grad D: Mm - hmm . Well , I was thinking if um {disfmarker} yyou guys have plans for Sunday ? We 're {disfmarker} we 're not {disfmarker} it 's probably going to be this Sunday , but um we 're sort of working with the weather here because we also want to combine it with somebarbecue activity where we just fire it up and what {disfmarker} whoever brings whatever you know , can throw it on there . So only the tiramisu is free , nothing else .Grad A: Well , I 'm going back to visit my parentsthis weekend , so , I 'll be out of town .Grad D: So you 're going to the west Bay then ? No ,Grad A: No , the South Bay ,Grad D: south Bay ?Grad A: yeah .Grad D: South Bay .Grad C: Well , I should be free , so .GradD: OK , I 'll let you know .Grad C: OK .Grad A: We are . Is Nancy s uh gonna show up ? Mmm . Wonder if these things ever emit a very , like , piercing screech right in your ear ?Grad D: They are gonna get morecomfortable headsets . They already ordered them . OK .Grad C: Uh {disfmarker}Grad D: Let 's get started . The uh {disfmarker} Should I go first , with the uh , um , data . Can I have the remote {vocalsound} control. Thank you . OK . So . On Friday we had our wizard test data test and um {vocalsound} these are some of the results . This was the introduction . I actually uh , even though Liz was uh kind enough to offer to be thefirst subject , I sort of felt that she knew too much , so I asked uh Litonya . just on the spur of the moment , and she was uh kind enough to uh serve as the first subject .Professor B: Mm - hmm .Grad D: So , this iswhat she saw as part of {disfmarker} as uh for instr introduction , this is what she had to read {pause} aloud . Uh , that was really difficult for her and uh {disfmarker}Grad C: Because of l all the names , you mean?Grad D: The names and um this was the uh first three tasks she had to {disfmarker} to master after she called the system , and um then of course the system broke down , and those were the l uh uh I should say thesystem was supposed to break down and then um these were the remaining three tasks that she was going to solve , with a human {disfmarker} Um . There are {disfmarker} here are uh the results . Mmm . And I willnot {disfmarker} We will skip the reading now . D Um . And um . The reading was five minutes , exactly . And now comes the {disfmarker} This is the phone - in phase of {disfmarker}Grad C: Wait , can I {disfmarker}I have a question . So . So there 's no system , right ? Like , there was a wizard for both uh {disfmarker} both parts , is this right ?Grad D: Yeah . It was bo it both times the same person .Grad C: OK .Grad D: One time, pretending to be a system , one time , to {disfmarker} pretending to be a human , which is actually not pretending .Grad C: OK . And she didn't {disfmarker}Grad D: I should {disfmarker}Grad C: I mean . Well . Isn'tthis kind of obvious when it says \" OK now you 're talking to a human \" and then the human has the same voice ?Grad D: No no no . We u Wait . OK , good question , but uh you {disfmarker} you just wait and see.Grad C: OK .Grad D: It 's {disfmarker} You 're gonna l learn . And um the wizard sometimes will not be audible , Because she was actually {disfmarker} they {disfmarker} there was some uh lapse in the um wireless ,we have to move her closer .Grad A: Is she mispronouncing \" Anlage \" ? Is it \" Anlaga \" or \" Anlunga \"Grad D: They 're mispronouncing everything ,Grad A: OK .Grad D: but it 's {disfmarker} This is the system breakingdown , actually . \" Did I call Europe ? \" So , this is it . Well , if we {disfmarker} we umProfessor B: So , are {disfmarker} are you trying to record this meeting ?Grad D: There was a strange reflex . I have a headache . I'm really sort of out of it . OK , the uh lessons learned . The reading needs to be shorter . Five minutes is just too long . Um , that was already anticipated by some people suggested that if we just have bullets here ,they 're gonna not {disfmarker} they 're {disfmarker} subjects are probably not gonna {disfmarker} going to follow the order . And uh she did not .Grad C: Really ?Grad D: She {disfmarker} No .Grad C: Oh , it 'ssurprising .Grad D: She {disfmarker} she jumped around quite a bit .Professor B: S so if you just number them \" one \" , \" two \" , \" three \" it 'sGrad D: Yeah , and make it sort of clear in the uh {disfmarker}Professor B:OK . Right .Grad D: Um . We need to {disfmarker} So that 's one thing . And we need a better introduction for the wizard . That is something that Fey actually thought of a {disfmarker} in the last second that sh thesystem should introduce itself , when it 's called .Professor B: Mm - hmm . True .Grad D: And um , um , another suggestion , by Liz , was that we uh , through subjects , switch the tasks . So when {disfmarker} whenthey have task - one with the computer , the next person should have task - one with a human , and so forth .Professor B: Mm - hmm .Grad D: So we get nice um data for that . Um , we have to refine the tasks moreand more , which of course we haven't done at all , so far , in order to avoid this rephrasing , so where , even though w we don't tell the person \" ask {pause} blah - blah - blah - blah - blah \" they still try , or at leastLitonya tried to um repeat as much of that text as possible .Grad C: Say exactly what 's on there ? Yeah .Grad D: And uh my suggestion is of course we {disfmarker} we keep the wizard , because I think she did awonderful job ,Professor B: Great .Grad D: in the sense that she responded quite nicely to things that were not asked for , \" How much is a t a bus ticket and a transfer \" so this is gonna happen all the time , we d youcan never be sure .Professor B: Mm - hmm .Grad D: Um . Johno pointed out that uh we have maybe a grammatical gender problem there with wizard .Grad A: Yes .Grad D: So um .Grad A: I wasn't {disfmarker} wasn'tsure whether wizard was the correct term for {pause} uh \" not a man \" .Grad C: There 's no female equivalent of {disfmarker}Grad D: But uh {disfmarker}Grad A: Are you sure ?Grad C: No , I don't know .Professor B:Right .Grad C: Not that I know of .Grad D: Well , there is witch and warlock ,Grad A: Yeah , that 's so @ @ .Professor B: Right .Grad C: Yeah , that 's what I was thinking , but {disfmarker}Grad D: and uh{disfmarker}Professor B: Right . Uh .Grad D: OK . And um {disfmarker} So , some {disfmarker} some work needs to be done , but I think we can uh {disfmarker} And this , and {disfmarker} in case no {disfmarker}you hadn't seen it , this is what Litonya looked at during the uh {disfmarker} um while taking the {disfmarker} while partaking in the data collection .Grad C: Ah .Professor B: OK , great . So {pause} first of all , I agreethat um we should hire Fey , and start paying her . Probably pay for the time she 's put in as well . Um , do you know exactly how to do that , or is uh Lila {disfmarker} I mean , you know what exactly do we do to{disfmarker} to put her on the payroll in some way ?Grad D: I 'm completely clueless , but I 'm willing to learn .Professor B: OK . Well , you 'll have to . Right . So anyway , umGrad D: NProfessor B: So why don't youuh ask Lila and see what she says about you know exactly what we do for someone in thGrad D: Student - type worker ,Professor B: Well , yeah she 's un she 's not a {disfmarker} a student ,Grad D: or {disfmarker}?Professor B: she just graduated but anyway .Grad D: Hmm .Professor B: So i if {disfmarker} Yeah , I agree , she sounded fine , she a actually was {pause} uh , more uh , present and stuff than {disfmarker} than shewas in conversation , so she did a better job than I would have guessed from just talking to her .Grad D: Yeah .Professor B: So I think that 's great .Grad D: This is sort of what I gave her , so this is for example h howto get to the student prison ,Professor B: Yeah .Grad D: and I didn't even spell it out here and in some cases I {disfmarker} I spelled it out a little bit um more thoroughly ,Professor B: Right .Grad D: this is theinformation on {disfmarker} on the low sunken castle , and the amphitheater that never came up , and um , so i if we give her even more um , instruments to work with I think the results are gonna be even better.Professor B: Oh , yeah , and then of course as she does it she 'll {disfmarker} she 'll learn @ @ .  So that 's great . Um {pause} And also if she 's willing to take on the job of organizing all those subjects and stuff thatwould be wonderful .Grad D: Mmm .Professor B: And , uh she 's {disfmarker} actually she 's going to graduate school in a kind of an experimental paradigm , so I think this is all just fine in terms of h her learningthings she 's gonna need to know uh , to do her career .Grad D: Mmm .Professor B: So , I {disfmarker} my guess is she 'll be r r quite happy to take on that job . And , so {disfmarker}Grad D: Yep . Yeah she{disfmarker} she didn't explicitly state that so .Professor B: Great .Grad D: And um I told her that we gonna um figure out a meeting time in the near future to refine the tasks and s look for the potential sources to findpeople . She also agrees that you know if it 's all just gonna be students the data is gonna be less valuable because of that so .Professor B: Well , as I say there is this s set of people next door , it 's not hard toGrad D:We 're already {disfmarker} Yeah .Professor B: uh {disfmarker}Grad D: However , we may run into a problem with a reading task there . And um , we 'll see .Professor B: Yeah . We could talk to the people who run itand um see if they have a way that they could easily uh tell people that there 's a task , pays ten bucks or something ,Grad D: Mm - hmm . Yeah .Professor B: but um you have to be comfortable reading relativelycomplicated stuff . And {disfmarker} and there 'll probably be self - selection to some extent .Grad D: Mmm . Yep .Professor B: Uh , so that 's good . Um . Now , {pause} I signed us up for the Wednesday slot , and partof what we should do is this .Grad D: OK .Professor B: So , my idea on that was {pause} uh , partly we 'll talk about system stuff for the computer scientists , but partly I did want it to get the linguists involved in someof this issue about what the task is and all {disfmarker} um you know , what the dialogue is , and what 's going on linguistically , because to the extent that we can get them contributing , that will be good . So thisissue about you know re - formulating things ,Grad D: Yep .Professor B: maybe we can get some of the linguists sufficiently interested that they 'll help us with it , uh , other linguists , if you 're a linguist , but in anycase ,Grad D: Yep .Professor B: um , the linguistics students and stuff . So my idea on {disfmarker} on Wednesday is partly to uh {disfmarker} you {disfmarker} I mean , what you did today would {disfmarker} i isjust fine . You just uh do \" this is what we did , and here 's the {pause} thing , and here 's s some of the dialogue and {disfmarker} and so forth . \" But then , the other thing of course is we should um give thecomputer scientists some idea of {disfmarker} of what 's going on with the system design , and where we think the belief - nets fit in and where the pieces are and stuff like that . Is {disfmarker} is this {pause} makesense to everybody ?Grad D: Yep .Professor B: Yeah . So , I don't {disfmarker} I don't think it 's worth a lot of work , particularly on your part , to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to make a big presentation . I don't thinkyou should {disfmarker} you don't have to make any new {pause} uh PowerPoint or anything . I think we got plenty of stuff to talk about . And , then um just see how a discussion goes .Grad D: Mm - hmm . Soundsgood . The uh other two things is um we 've {disfmarker} can have Johno tell us a little about thisProfessor B: Great .Grad D: and we also have a l little bit on the interface , M - three - L enhancement , and then umthat was it , I think .Grad A: So , what I did for this {disfmarker} this is {disfmarker} uh , a pedagogical belief - net because I was {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I took {disfmarker} I tried to conceptually do what youwere talking about with the nodes that you could expand out {disfmarker} so what I did was I took {disfmarker} I made these dummy nodes called Trajector - In and Trajector - Out that would isolate the things relatedto the trajector .Professor B: Yep .Grad A: And then there were the things with the source and the path and the goal .Professor B: Yep .Grad A: And I separated them out . And then I um did similar things for our{disfmarker} our net to {disfmarker} uh with the context and the discourse and whatnot , um , so we could sort of isolate them or whatever in terms of the {disfmarker} the top layer .Professor B: Mm - hmm .Grad A:And then the bottom layer is just the Mode . So .Professor B: So , let 's {disfmarker} let 's {disfmarker} Yeah , I don't understand it . Let 's go {disfmarker} Slide all the way up so we see what the p the p very bottomlooks like , or is that it ?Grad A: Yeah , there 's just one more node and it says \" Mode \" which is the decision between the {disfmarker}Grad D: Yeah .Professor B: OK , great . Alright .Grad A: So basically all I did was Itook the last {pause} belief - netProfessor B: So {disfmarker} Mm - hmm .Grad A: and I grouped things according to what {disfmarker} how I thought they would fit in to uh image schemas that would be related . Andthe two that I came up with were Trajector - landmark and then Source - path - goal as initial ones .Professor B: Yep . Mm - hmm .Grad A: And then I said well , uh the trajector would be the person in this caseprobably .Professor B: Right , yep .Grad A: Um , you know , we have {disfmarker} we have the concept of what their intention was , whether they were trying to tour or do business or whatever ,Professor B: Right.Grad A: or they were hurried . That 's kind of related to that . And then um in terms of the source , the things {disfmarker} uh the only things that we had on there I believe were whether {disfmarker} Oh actually , Ikind of , {disfmarker} I might have added these cuz I don't think we talked too much about the source in the old one but uh whether the {disfmarker} where I 'm currently at is a landmark might have a bearing onwhether {disfmarker}Grad D: Mm - hmm .Grad A: or the \" landmark - iness \" of where I 'm currently at . And \" usefulness \" is basi basically means is that an institutional facility like a town hall or something like thatthat 's not {disfmarker} something that you 'd visit for tourist 's {disfmarker} tourism 's sake or whatever . \" Travel constraints \" would be something like you know , maybe they said they can {disfmarker} they onlywanna take a bus or something like that , right ? And then those are somewhat related to the path ,Professor B: Mm - hmm .Grad A: so that would determine whether we 'd {disfmarker} could take {disfmarker} wewould be telling them to go to the bus stop or versus walking there directly . Um , \" Goal \" . Similar things as the source except they also added whether the entity was closed and whether they have somehow markedthat is was the final destination . Um , and then if you go up , Robert , Yeah , so {disfmarker} um , in terms of Context , what we had currently said was whether they were a businessman or a tourist of some otherperson . Um , Discourse was related to whether they had asked about open hours or whether they asked about where the entrance was or the admission fee , or something along those lines .Professor B: Mm - hmm.Grad A: Uh , Prosody I don't really {disfmarker} I 'm not really sure what prosody means , in this context , so I just made up you know whether {disfmarker} whether what they say is {disfmarker} or h how they say itis {disfmarker} is that .Professor B: Right , OK .Grad A: Um , the Parse would be what verb they chose , and then maybe how they modified it , in the sense of whether they said \" I need to get there quickly \" orwhatever .Professor B: Mm - hmm .Grad A: And um , in terms of World Knowledge , this would just basically be like opening and closing times of things , the time of day it is , and whatnot .Grad D: What 's \" tourbook \"?Grad A: Tourbook ? That would be , I don't know , the \" landmark - iness \" of things ,Grad D: Mm - hmm .Grad A: whether it 's in the tourbook or not .Professor B: Ch - ch - ch - ch . Now . Alright , so I understandwhat 's {disfmarker} what you got . I don't yet understand {pause} how you would use it . So let me see if I can askGrad A: Well , this is not a working Bayes - net .Professor B: a s Right . No , I understand that , but{disfmarker} but um So , what {disfmarker} Let 's slide back up again and see {disfmarker} start at the {disfmarker} at the bottom and Oop - bo - doop - boop - boop . Yeah . So , you could imagine w Uh , go ahead ,you were about to go up there and point to something .Grad A: Well I {disfmarker} OK , I just {disfmarker} Say what you were gonna say .Professor B: Good , do it !Grad A: OK .Professor B: No no , go do it .Grad A:Uh {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I 'd {disfmarker} No , I was gonna wait until {disfmarker}Professor B: Oh , OK . So , so if you {disfmarker} if we made {disfmarker} if we wanted to make it into a {disfmarker} a realuh Bayes - net , that is , you know , with fill {disfmarker} you know , actually f uh , fill it @ @ in , then uh {disfmarker}Grad A: So we 'd have to get rid of this and connect these things directly to the Mode .Professor B:Well , I don't {disfmarker} That 's an issue . So , um {disfmarker}Grad A: Cuz I don't understand how it would work otherwise .Professor B: Well , here 's the problem . And {disfmarker} and uh {disfmarker} Bhaskaraand I was talking about this a little earlier today {disfmarker} is , if we just do this , we could wind up with a huge uh , combinatoric input to the Mode thing . And uh {disfmarker}Grad A: Well I {disfmarker} oh yeah , Iunders I understand that , I just {disfmarker} uh it 's hard for me to imagine how he could get around that .Professor B: Well , i But that 's what we have to do .Grad A: OK .Professor B: OK , so , so , uh . There{disfmarker} there are a variety of ways of doing it . Uh . Let me just mention something that I don't want to pursue today which is there are technical ways of doing it , uh I I slipped a paper to Bhaskara and{disfmarker} about Noisy - OR 's and Noisy - MAXes and there 're ways to uh sort of back off on the purity of your Bayes - net - edness .Grad A: Mmm .Professor B: Uh , so . If you co you could ima and I now I don'tknow that any of those actually apply in this case , but there is some technology you could try to apply .Grad A: So it 's possible that we could do something like a summary node of some sort that {disfmarker} OK.Professor B: Yeah . Yeah . And , um So .Grad A: So in that case , the sum we 'd have {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} I mean , these wouldn't be the summary nodes . We 'd have the summary nodes like where thethings were {disfmarker} I guess maybe if thi if things were related to business or some other {disfmarker}Professor B: Yeah .Grad A: Yeah .Professor B: So what I was gonna say is {disfmarker} is maybe a good at"}
{"doc_id":"doc_132","qid":"","text":"PhD F: And we 're on .Professor D: OK . Might wanna {vocalsound} close the door so that {disfmarker} Uh , Stephane will {disfmarker}PhD F: I 'll get it .Professor D: YeahPhD F: Hey Dave ? Could you go ahead andturn on , uh , Stephane 's {disfmarker}Grad C: Mm - hmm .Professor D: So that 's the virtual Stephane over there .PhD F: OK .Professor G: Do you use a PC for recording ? Or {disfmarker}PhD F: Uh , yeah , a Linuxbox . Yeah . It 's got , uh , like sixteen channels going into it .Professor G: Uh - huh . Uh - huh . The quality is quite good ? Or {disfmarker} ?PhD F: Mm - hmm . Yeah , so far , it 's been pretty good .Professor G: Mm -hmm .Professor D: Yeah . So , uh , yeah {disfmarker} the suggestion was to have these guys start to {disfmarker}PhD F: OK . Why don't you go ahead , Dave ?Grad C: OK . Um , so , yeah , the {disfmarker} this pastweek I 've been main mainly occupied with , um , getting some results , u from the SRI system trained on this short Hub - five training set for the mean subtraction method . And , um , I ran some tests last night . But ,um , c the results are suspicious . Um , it 's , um , {vocalsound} cuz they 're {disfmarker} the baseline results are worse than , um , Andreas {disfmarker} than results Andreas got previously . And {vocalsound} itcould have something to do with , um {disfmarker}PhD F: That 's on digits ?Grad C: That 's on digits . It c it {disfmarker} it could h it could have something to do with , um , downsampling .PhD F: Hmm .Grad C: That's {disfmarker} that 's worth looking into . Um , d and , um , ap ap apart from that , I guess the {disfmarker} the main thing I have t ta I have to talk is , um , where I 'm planning to go over the next week . Um . So I've been working on integrating this mean subtraction approach into the SmartKom system . And there 's this question of , well , so , um , in my tests before with HTK I found it worked {disfmarker} it worked the bestwith about twelve seconds of data used to estimate the mean , but , we 'll often have less {comment} in the SmartKom system . Um . So I think we 'll use as much data as we have {pause} at a particular time , and we'll {disfmarker} {vocalsound} we 'll concatenate utterances together , um , to get as much data as we possibly can from the user . But , {vocalsound} um , {vocalsound} there 's a question of how to set up the models. So um , we could train the models . If we think twelve seconds is ideal we could train the models using twelve seconds to calculate the mean , to mean subtract the training data . Or we could , um , use some otheramount . So {disfmarker} like I did an experiment where I , um , was using six seconds in test , um , but , for {disfmarker} I tried twelve seconds in train . And I tried , um , um , the same in train {disfmarker} I 'm a Itried six seconds in train . And six seconds in train {vocalsound} was about point three percent better . Um , and {disfmarker} {vocalsound} um , it 's not clear to me yet whether that 's {vocalsound} somethingsignificant . So I wanna do some tests and , um , {vocalsound} actually make some plots of , um {disfmarker} for a particular amount of data and test what happens if you vary the amount of data in train .PhD F: Mm -hmm .Professor D: Uh , Guenter , I don't know if you t {vocalsound} followed this stuff but this is , uh , {vocalsound} a uh , uh , long - term {disfmarker} long - term window F F Yeah . Yeah , he {disfmarker} youtalked about it .Professor G: Yeah , we {disfmarker} we spoke about it already ,Professor D: Oh , OK . So you know what he 's doing .Professor G: yeah .Professor D: Alright .Grad C: y s so I was {disfmarker} I actuallyran the experiments mostly and I {disfmarker} I was {disfmarker} I was hoping to have the plots with me today . I just didn't get to it . But , um {disfmarker} yeah , I wou I would be curious about people 's feedbackon this cuz I 'm {disfmarker} {vocalsound} @ @ {comment} I p I think there are some I think it 's {disfmarker} it 's kind of like a {disfmarker} a bit of a tricky engineering problem . I 'm trying to figure out what 's theoptimal way to set this up . So , um , {vocalsound} I 'll try to make the plots and then put some postscript up on my {disfmarker} on my web page . And I 'll mention it in my status report if people wanna take a look.Professor D: You could clarify something for me . You 're saying point three percent , you take a point three percent hit , {vocalsound} when the training and testing links are {disfmarker} don't match or something?PhD E: Hello .Professor D: Is that what it is ?Grad C: w Well , it cProfessor D: Or {disfmarker} ?Grad C: I {disfmarker} I don't think it {disfmarker} it 's {vocalsound} just for any mismatch {vocalsound} you take a hit.Professor D: Yeah .Grad C: i In some cases it might be u better to have a mismatch . Like I think I saw something like {disfmarker} like if you only have two seconds in test , or , um , maybe it was something like fourseconds , you actually do a little better if you , um , {vocalsound} train on six seconds than if you train on four seconds .Professor D: Yeah . Right .Grad C: Um , but the case , uh {disfmarker} with the point threepercent hit was {vocalsound} using six seconds in test , um , comparing train on twelve seconds {comment} versus train on six seconds .Professor D: And which was worse ?Grad C: The train on twelve seconds.Professor D: OK . But point three percent , uh , w from what to what ? That 's point three percent {disfmarker}Grad C: On {disfmarker} The {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the accuracies {vocalsound} w went from{disfmarker} it was something vaguely like ninety - five point six accuracy , um , improved to ninety - five point nine wh when I {disfmarker}Professor D: So four point four to four point one .Grad C: OK .Professor D:So {disfmarker} yeah . So about a {disfmarker} about an eight percent , uh , seven or eight percent relative ?Grad C: OK .Professor D: Uh , Yeah . Well , I think in a p You know , if {disfmarker} if you were going foran evaluation system you 'd care . But if you were doing a live system that people were actually using nobody would notice . It 's {disfmarker} uh , I think the thing is to get something that 's practical , that{disfmarker} that you could really use .Grad C: Huh . That 's {disfmarker} that 's interesting . Alright , the e uh , I see your point . I guess I was thinking of it as , um , {vocalsound} an interesting research problem .The {disfmarker} how to g I was thinking that for the ASRU paper we could have a section saying , {vocalsound} \" For SmartKom , we {disfmarker} we d in {disfmarker} we tried this approach in , uh , {vocalsound}interactive system \" , which I don't think has been done before .Professor D: Yeah . Mm - hmm .Grad C: And {disfmarker} and then there was two research questions from that .Professor D: Mm - hmm .Grad C: Andone is the k does it still work if you just use the past history ?Professor D: Mm - hmm .Grad C: Alright , and the other was this question of , um what I was just talking about now . So I guess that 's why I thought it wasinteresting .Professor D: I mean , a short - time FFT {disfmarker} short - time cepstrum calculation , uh , mean {disfmarker} u mean calculation work that people have in commercial systems , they do this all the time .They {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} they calculate it from previous utterances and then use it , you know .Grad C: Yeah , um .Professor D: But {disfmarker} but , uh , as you say , there hasn't been that much with thislong {disfmarker} long - time , uh , spectra work .Grad C: Oh , o Oh , OK .Professor D: Uh ,Grad C: So that 's {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} that 's standard . Um {disfmarker}Professor D: Yeah . Pretty common.Grad C: OK .Professor D: Yeah . Um , but , u uh , yes . No , it is interesting . And the other thing is , I mean , there 's two sides to these really small , uh , gradations in performance . Um , I mean , on the one hand ina practical system if something is , uh , four point four percent error , four point one percent error , people won't really tell {disfmarker} be able to tell the difference . On the other hand , when you 're doing , uh ,research , you may , eh {disfmarker} you might find that the way that you build up a change from a ninety - five percent accurate system to a ninety - eight percent accurate system is through ten or twelve little thingsthat you do that each are point three percent . So {disfmarker} so the {disfmarker} they {disfmarker} they {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} I don't mean to say that they 're {disfmarker} they 're irrelevant . Uh , theyare relevant . But , um , {vocalsound} i for a demo , you won't see it .Grad C: Mm - hmm . Right . OK .Professor D: Yeah .Grad C: And , um , Let 's {disfmarker} l let 's see . Um , OK . And then there 's um , anotherthing I wanna start looking at , um , {vocalsound} wi is , um , the choice of the analysis window length . So I 've just been using two seconds just because that 's what Carlos did before . Uh , I wrote to him askingabout he chose the two seconds . And it seemed like he chose it a bit informally . So , um , with the {disfmarker} with the HTK set - up I should be able to do some experiments , on just varying that length , saybetween one and three seconds , in a few different reverberation conditions , um , say this room and also a few of the artificial impulse responses we have for reverberation , just , um , making some plots and seeinghow they look . And , um , so , with the {disfmarker} the sampling rate I was using , one second or two seconds or four seconds is at a power of two um , number of samples and , um , I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll jus f for theones in between I guess I 'll just zero - pad .Professor D: Mm - hmm . I guess one thing that might also be an issue , uh , cuz part of what you 're doing is you 're getting a {disfmarker} a spectrum over a bunch ofdifferent kinds of speech sounds . Um , and so it might matter how fast someone was talking for instance .Grad C: Oh .Professor D: You know , if you {disfmarker} if {disfmarker} if {disfmarker} if there 's a lot ofphones in one second maybe you 'll get a {disfmarker} a really good sampling of all these different things , and {disfmarker} {vocalsound} and , uh , on the other hand if someone 's talking slowly maybe you 'd needmore . So {disfmarker}Grad C: Huh .Professor D: I don't know if you have some samples of faster or slower speech but it might make a difference . I don't know .Grad C: Uh , yeah , I don't {disfmarker} I don't thinkthe TI - digits data that I have , um , {vocalsound} i is {disfmarker} would be appropriate for that .Professor D: Yeah , probably not . Yeah .Grad C: But what do you {disfmarker} What about if I w I fed it throughsome kind of , um , speech processing algorithm that changed the speech rate ?Professor D: Yeah , but then you 'll have the degradation of {disfmarker} of , uh , whatever you do uh , added onto that . But maybe .Yeah , maybe if you get something that sounds {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} does a pretty job at that .Grad C: Yeah . Well , uh , just if you think it 's worth looking into .Professor D: You couldimagine that .Grad C: I mean , it {disfmarker} it is getting a little away from reverberation .Professor D: Um , yeah . It 's just that you 're making a choice {disfmarker} uh , I was thinking more from the system aspect, if you 're making a choice for SmartKom , that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that it might be that it 's {disfmarker} it c the optimal number could be different , depending on {disfmarker}Grad C: Yeah . Right.Professor D: Could be . I don't know .Grad C: And {disfmarker} and th the third thing , um , uh , is , um , Barry explained LDA filtering to me yesterday . And so , um , Mike Shire in his thesis um , {vocalsound} did a{disfmarker} a series of experiments , um , training LDA filters in d on different conditions . And you were interested in having me repeat this for {disfmarker} for this mean subtraction approach ? Is {disfmarker} isthat right ? Or for these long analysis windows , I guess , is the right way to put it .Professor D: I guess , the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the issue I was {disfmarker} the general issue I was bringing up was that ifyou 're {disfmarker} have a moving {disfmarker} {vocalsound} moving window , uh , a wa a {disfmarker} a set of weights times things that , uh , move along , shift along in time , that you have in fact a linear timeinvariant filter . And you just happened to have picked a particular one by setting all the weights to be equal . And so the issue is what are some other filters that you could use , uh , in that sense of \" filter \" ?Grad C:Mm - hmm .Professor D: And , um , as I was saying , I think the simplest thing to do is not to train anything , but just to do some sort of , uh , uh , hamming or Hanning , uh , kind of window , kind of thing ,Grad C:Right . Mm - hmm .Professor D: just sort of to de - emphasize the jarring . So I think that would sort of be the first thing to do . But then , yeah , the LDA i uh , is interesting because it would sort of say well , supposeyou actually trained this up to do the best you could by some criterion , what would the filter look like then ?Grad C: Uh - huh .Professor D: Uh , and , um , that 's sort of what we 're doing in this Aur - Aurora stuff . And, uh , it 's still not clear to me in the long run whether the best thing to do would be to do that or to have some stylized version of the filter that looks like these things you 've trained up , because you always have theproblem that it 's trained up for one condition and it isn't quite right for another . So . uh {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} that 's why {disfmarker} that 's why RASTA filter has actually ended up lasting a long time ,people still using it quite a bit , because y you don't change it . So doesn't get any worse . Uh ,Grad C: Huh .Professor D: Anyway .Grad C: o OK . So , um , a actually I was just thinking about what I was asking aboutearlier , wi which is about having {vocalsound} less than say twelve seconds in the SmartKom system to do the mean subtraction . You said in {vocalsound} systems where you use cepstral mean subtraction , theyconcatenate utterances and , {vocalsound} do you know how they address this issue of , um , testing versus training ? Can {disfmarker}Professor D: Go ahead .Professor G: I think what they do is they do it always on -line , I mean , that you just take what you have from the past , that you calculate the mean of this and subtract the mean .Grad C: OK . Um {disfmarker}Professor G: And then you can {disfmarker} yeah , you{disfmarker} you can increase your window whi while you get {disfmarker} while you are getting more samples .Grad C: OK , um , and , um , so {disfmarker} so in tha in that case , wh what do they do when they 're tum , performing the cepstral mean subtraction on the training data ? So {disfmarker} because you 'd have hours and hours of training data . So do they cut it off and start over ? At intervals ? Or {disfmarker}?Professor G: So do you have {disfmarker} uh , you {disfmarker} you mean you have files which are hours of hours long ? Or {disfmarker} ?Grad C: Oh , well , no . I guess not . But {disfmarker}Professor G: Yeah . Imean , usually you have in the training set you have similar conditions , I mean , file lengths are , I guess the same order or in the same size as for test data , or aren't they ?Grad C: OK . But it 's {disfmarker} OK . Soif someone 's interacting with the system , though , uh , Morgan {disfmarker} uh , Morgan said that you would {vocalsound} tend to , um , {vocalsound} chain utterances together um , rProfessor D: Well , I think whatI was s I thought what I was saying was that , um , at any given point you are gonna start off with what you had from before .Grad C: Oh .Professor D: From {disfmarker} and so if you 're splitting things up intoutterances {disfmarker} So , for instance , in a dialogue system , {comment} where you 're gonna be asking , uh , you know , th for some information , there 's some initial th something . And , you know , the first timeout you {disfmarker} you might have some general average . But you {disfmarker} you d you don't have very much information yet . But at {disfmarker} after they 've given one utterance you 've got something . Youcan compute your mean cepstra from that ,Grad C: Mm - hmm .Professor D: and then can use it for the next thing that they say , uh , so that , you know , the performance should be better that second time . Um ,  andI think the heuristics of exactly how people handle that and how they handle their training I 'm sure vary from place to place . But I think the {disfmarker} ideally , it seems to me anyway , that you {disfmarker} youwould wanna do the same thing in training as you do in test . But that 's {disfmarker} that 's just , uh , a prejudice . And I think anybody working on this with some particular task would experiment .Grad C: Right . I gI guess the question I had was , um , amount of data e u was the amount of data that you 'd give it to , um {vocalsound} update this estimate . Because say you {disfmarker} if you have say five thousand utterancesin your training set , {vocalsound} um , and you {disfmarker} you keep the mean from the last utterance , by the time it gets to the five thousandth utterance {disfmarker}Professor D: No , but those are all differentpeople with different {disfmarker} I mean , i in y So for instance , in {disfmarker} in the {disfmarker} in a telephone task , these are different phone calls . So you don't wanna @ @ {comment} chain it together from a{disfmarker} from a different phone call .Grad C: OK , so {disfmarker} so {disfmarker} so they would {disfmarker} g sProfessor D: So it 's within speaker , within phone call ,Professor G: Yeah .Professor D: if it 's adialogue system , it 's within whatever this characteristic you 're trying to get rid of is expected to be consistent over ,Professor G: Hmm .Grad C: r and it {disfmarker}Professor D: right ?Grad C: right . OK , so you 'd{disfmarker} you {disfmarker} and so in training you would start over at {disfmarker} at every new phone call or at every {vocalsound} new speaker . Yeah ,Professor D: Yeah .Grad C: OK .Professor D: Yeah . Now ,{vocalsound} you know , maybe you 'd use something from the others just because at the beginning of a call you don't know anything , and so you might have some kind of general thing that 's your best guess to startwith . But {disfmarker} So , s I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} you know , a lot of these things are proprietary so we 're doing a little bit of guesswork here . I mean , what do comp what do people do who really facethese problems in the field ? Well , they have companies and they don't tell other people exactly what they do .Grad C: R right .Professor D: But {disfmarker} but I mean , when you {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} thehints that you get from what they {disfmarker} when they talk about it are that they do {disfmarker} they all do something like this .Grad C: Right , OK . I see . Bec - because I {disfmarker} so this SmartKom task firstoff , it 's this TV and movie information system .Professor D: Yeah , but you might have somebody who 's using itGrad C: And {disfmarker} Yeah .Professor D: and then later you might have somebody else who 's usingit .Grad C: Yeah . Right . Right . I {disfmarker} I see .Professor D: And so you 'd wanna set some {disfmarker}Grad C: I was {disfmarker} I was about to say . So if {disfmarker} if you ask it \" What {disfmarker} whatmovies are on TV tonight ? \" ,Professor D: Yeah . Yeah .Grad C: if I look at my wristwatch when I say that it 's about two seconds . The way I currently have the mean subtraction , um , set up , the {disfmarker} theanalysis window is two seconds .Professor D: Yeah .Grad C: So what you just said , about what do you start with , raises a question of {vocalsound} what do I start with then ?Professor D: Mm - hmm .Grad C: I guess it{disfmarker} because {disfmarker}Professor D: Well , w OK , so in that situation , though , th maybe what 's a little different there , is I think you 're talking about {disfmarker} there 's only one {disfmarker} it{disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it also depends {disfmarker} we 're getting a little off track here .Grad C: Oh , right .Professor D: r But {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} Uh , there 's been some discussionabout whether the work we 're doing in that project is gonna be for the kiosk or for the mobile or for both . And I think for this kind of discussion it matters . If it 's in the kiosk , then the physical situation is the same .It 's gonna {disfmarker} you know , the exact interaction of the microphone 's gonna differ depending on the person and so forth . But at least the basic acoustics are gonna be the same . So f if it 's really in one kiosk ,then I think that you could just chain together and {disfmarker} and you know , as much {disfmarker} as much speech as possible to {disfmarker} because what you 're really trying to get at is the {disfmarker} is thereverberation characteristic .Grad C: Yeah .Professor D: But in {disfmarker} in the case of the mobile , uh , {comment} presumably the acoustic 's changing all over the place .Grad C: Right .Professor D: And in that"}
{"doc_id":"doc_133","qid":"","text":"The Chair (Hon. Anthony Rota (NipissingTimiskaming, Lib.)): I call the meeting to order.  Welcome to the third meeting of the House of Commons Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic. Pursuant to the order ofreference of Monday, April20, the committee is meeting for the purposes of considering ministerial announcements, allowing members to present petitions, and questioning ministers of the crown, including the PrimeMinister, in respect of the COVID-19 pandemic. I understand there's an agreement to observe a moment of silence in memory of the six members of the Canadian Armed Forces who lost their lives last Wednesday in ahelicopter crash off the coast of Greece.  We'll return to order. Colleagues, we meet today to continue our discussion about how our country is dealing with the COVID-19 pandemic. As we do, Canadians, like everyonearound the world, are doing their best to live their lives until things improve. Meanwhile, as we look towards the future, I believe that it is also important to remember our past and to continue to mark the importantmoments in our shared history. At this very moment, the Dominion Carillonneur, Dr. Andrea McCrady, is performing a special recital to commemorate the 75th anniversary of the liberation of the Netherlands by theCanadian Forces. In May 1945, Canadian Forces played a major role in liberating the Dutch people from Nazi occupation. May 5 is now a national holiday in the Netherlands that commemorates the event and the greatfriendship that now exists between our two countries. Today's meeting is taking place by video conference. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website. Please be aware that the webcastwill always show the person speaking rather than the entire committee. Let me remind you that, as in the House or in committee, members may not take photographs of their colleagues or film the proceedings. In orderto facilitate the work of our interpreters and ensure orderly meetings, I will outline a few rules. Interpretation of this video conference will be done as it is at normal committee meetings and in the House. At the bottomof your screen, you can choose floor, English or French. As you have seen, I change as I am speaking. I have now switched over to English in order to speak English. If you look at the bottom, you have a little flag thatindicates whether it's English or French, and that's how we will be speaking. It makes it easier. That was where we had a little bit of a glitch in the last session. I understand that there are no statements by ministers.We can now proceed to presenting petitions for a period not exceeding 15 minutes.  I would like to remind members that petitions presented during a meeting of the special committee must already have been certifiedby the clerk of petitions.  In addition, to ensure that the petition is considered to have been properly presented, the certificate of the petition and each page of the petition for petitions certified in a previous Parliamentshould be emailed to the committee no later than 6 p.m. on the day before the committee. I thank all the members for their usual co-operation. Thank you all. Now we'll proceed to presenting petitions. Our first petitioncomes from the honourable member for Sherwood ParkFort Saskatchewan, Mr. Genuis.Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood ParkFort Saskatchewan, CPC): Mr. Chair, I'm pleased to be presenting two petitions today. The firstpetition is with respect to government Bill C-7. Petitioners raised concerns that this bill removes safeguards from the current euthanasia regime. It includes removing the mandatory 10-day reflection period and thenumber of required witnesses who will witness a person's consent. The petitioners urge the House of Commons to immediately discontinue the removal of safeguards for people requesting euthanasia, and to put in placeadditional measures to protect vulnerable people. This would require that bill to be amended or not passed. The second petition is with respect to Senate public bill S-204. This is on organ harvesting and trafficking.Petitioners call on members of the House, and hopefully the Senate as well, to support Bill S-204, which would make it a criminal offence for a person to go abroad and receive an organ for which there has not beenconsent. It would also create provisions under which a person could be made inadmissible to Canada if they had been involved in organ harvesting or trafficking. Thank you very much.The Chair: Thank you. I want toremind all the members that there are specific headsets that have been mandated to all of us. If you don't have one, please talk to your IT ambassador and they will get one to you as quickly as possible. The reason forthem is not so much for what you hear, but that our interpreters are working and there are work conditions that really make it difficult. Part of that is not having the appropriate boom on your headset, which will make itvery difficult for them to hear and interpret for our members. Now we go to the member for BeachesEast York, Mr. Erskine-Smith.Mr. Nathaniel Erskine-Smith (BeachesEast York, Lib.): Mr. Chair, I had to learn how totie my tie all over again. It's been so long. I want to thank Jenna Robar, who's led this petition e-2453. The petitioners have noted that there are approximately 60 indigenous languages in Canada and that 2019, lastyear, was declared by the UN to be the year of indigenous languages. They draw attention to article 13 of the UNDRIP and to the TRC's calls to action numbers 13 to 16. Fundamentally, they call upon the Government ofCanada to recognize indigenous languages as being official languages of Canada and to have each language recognized nationally, with implementations on regional and provincial levels, acknowledging that manyregions have different languages.Mr. Eric Duncan (StormontDundasSouth Glengarry, CPC): Mr. Chair, I am proud to present a petition on behalf of one of my constituents, Myles Lynch of St. Andrews West in my riding.Myles made history as the first Canadian ever to survive three double-lung transplants. Myles lives with cystic fibrosis and has had three lung transplants in the last five years, and he's only 22 years old. Myles created adocumentary called 8 Thousand Myles, which had a few showings in my riding. It documented his journey across Canada. One thing Myles has been advocating for is the creation of a national opt-out program for organdonation. Myles asked me how he could help raise awareness of that issue. I mentioned to him e-petitions online and getting people across the country to sign them. I am proud to have this certified today, with 1,318signatures, asking the Standing Committee on Health to launch a study into the feasibility of the creation of a national opt-out program. I give kudos to Myles not only for his strength personally but also for his advocacyfor others and for saving lives in our country by advocating for a better and an improved organ donation system. Kudos to Myles. I'm proud to present this petition today.Mr. Peter Julian (New WestminsterBurnaby,NDP): Mr. Chair, I'm very pleased to present this certified petition on behalf of several dozen residents of Toronto, Mississauga and Brampton, Ontario, who add their voices to those of the thousands upon thousands ofCanadians who have signed similar petitions. Given that Canadians are living through unprecedented, catastrophic climate events, and at the same time our society, as you know, is suffering from worsening social andeconomic inequalitieshalf of Canadian families are only $200 away from insolvency in any given monthand particularly given the pandemic that we are currently experiencing, these petitioners are calling on theGovernment of Canada to support motion M-1, a made-in-Canada green new deal that I am presenting in front of the House of Commons. It calls on Canada to take bold and rapid action to tackle the climateemergency, and to put in place a shift to a clean and renewable energy economy.Mr. Gord Johns (CourtenayAlberni, NDP): Mr. Chair, it's an honour to table a petition on behalf of constituents from CourtenayAlberni.They are concerned, obviously, about fentanyl-related deaths. Over 12,000 Canadians have died over the last four years due to fentanyl-poisoned sources. They cite that the current war on drugs has been costly andgrossly ineffective; that it has resulted in widespread stigma towards addiction and against those who use illicit drugs; and that criminalization of particular substances has resulted in the establishment of a drug tradethat now trafficks dangerous and lethal products such as fentanyl. They are citing that regulating to ensure safe sources, with proper measures and bylaws, will reduce the criminal element associated with street drugs.Problematic substance use is a health issue and is not resolved through criminalization of personal possession and consumption. They are calling on the Government of Canada to declare the current opioid overdose andfenanyl poisoning crisis a national public health emergency under the Emergencies Act. They are calling for the government to reform current drug policy to decriminalize personal possession, as has been done inPortugal and other countries, and to create with urgency and immediacy a system to provide safe and unadulterated access to substances so that people who use substances experimentally, recreationally or chronicallyare not at imminent risk of overdose due to a contaminated source.Mr. Brad Vis (MissionMatsquiFraser Canyon, CPC): Mr. Chair, I'm presenting a petition today that contains the concerns of Canadians in my riding withthe government's approach to firearms legislation and regulation. The petition highlights that the Liberal government's December 5, 2019, Speech from the Throne contains numerous inaccuracies about current firearmslegislation and regulation; that the term military-style assault rifles is a political phrase undefined in Canadian law; that municipalities are constitutionally unable to enact criminal law to ban handguns in theirjurisdictions; that the experts, including chiefs of police, agree that banning firearms and requiring law-abiding gun owners to follow more unnecessary red tape will not increase public safety; that the majority of gunsused in violent crimes are smuggled into Canada from the United States; and that the Liberal government continues to target law-abiding firearms owners instead of the gangs, drug traffickers and illegal gun traffickersresponsible for violence in our communities. The petitioners in MissionMatsquiFraser Canyon are calling on the government to stop targeting law-abiding firearms owners; to cancel all plans to confiscate firearms legallyowned by federally licensed, RCMP-vetted Canadians; and to focus our limited resources on anti-gang enforcement, on reducing the involvement of at-risk youth and gangs, on mental health and on providing theCanada Border Services Agency with the tools they need to do their job effectively.The Chair: Very good. That's all for petitions today. We will now proceed to the questioning of ministers. I would like to remindhonourable members that no member shall be recognized for more than five minutes at a time and that members may split their time with one or more members by so indicating to the chair. Ministers responding to thequestion should do so by simply turning on their mike and speaking. I want to again remind honourable members to use the boom on the official headsets so that everything runs smoothly, not only for ourselves butalso for the interpreters.  We start the question period with Mr.Paul-Hus.Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus (CharlesbourgHaute-Saint-Charles, CPC): Thank you, Mr.Chair. Although we are right in the middle of a pandemic and thegovernment has agreed to set aside all parliamentary business in order to concentrate solely on eliminating the virus in Canada and its impacts, the Prime Minister is deceiving Canadians by introducing measures topunish law-abiding firearm owners. Why?Right Hon. Justin Trudeau (Prime Minister): Mr.Chair, I feel that all Canadians were affected by the massacre in Nova Scotia. Once again, too many families are facing tragedyand tremendous grief. During the last election campaign, we promised to ban military-style assault weapons, and that is exactly what we have done. We will be working with members from all parties in order tocontinue strengthening gun control. It is a shame that, once more, the Conservatives do not want to strengthen gun control in the country.Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus: Mr.Chair, I understand the Prime Minister's reply.However, I would like to know whether he considers that, with this order in council, organized crime, street gangs and other criminals are simply going to turn in their weapons.Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: This is indeedonly a first step, but it is an important one. We are doing other things to eliminate or restrict handguns in our municipalities, to strengthen the control at our borders, and to implement other measures. I am pleased tohear the hon. member speak of those measures, because we are going to work together in the House to strengthen gun control. I hope that the Conservative Party will be part of that discussion in a positive way, inorder to keep Canadians safe.Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus: Mr.Chair, I can simply say to the Prime Minister that the Conservative Party has always been committed to battling criminals, not law-abiding citizens. Speaking ofcriminals, we know that, even before the pandemic, the Prime Minister had asked the Parole Board of Canada to release prisoners more easily and more quickly. Now we are learning that, because of the pandemic,some releases are happening very quickly. The Minister of Public Safety told us that the people were approaching the end of their sentences or were older, but we are learning in the media that some dangerouscriminals are being released. Can the Prime Minister give us an explanation?Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: The protection, the safety and the health of all Canadians are important for the government. This is why we havetaken additional measures in our correctional services to ensure that guards and inmates are protected. We have indeed opened the doors to some more speedy releases, but only in very specific cases that present littleor no danger for Canadians. We have managed to find the right balance. We must protect Canadians and we must also ensure that they are safe. Those two things go hand-in-hand.Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus: So is the PrimeMinister confirming to us that no dangerous criminals have been precipitously released so that they do not have to experience COVID-19 within the walls?Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: There are very strict rules andprinciples to ensure that people posing a threat to society are not released.The Chair: Mr.Paul-Hus, you have one minute left.Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus: Thank you, Mr.Chair. The Chinese government has not been transparentwith the rest of the world about the coronavirus. Australia asked for an in-depth investigation, but has received threats from the communist regime. Is Canada going to stand by its allies in the Five Eyes and demandthat the Chinese government be completely transparent?Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: We continue to stand in solidarity with our allies, including the Five Eyes, as they have stood in solidarity with Canada in terms of thetwo Canadians who have been unjustly detained for a long time in China. In the coming months and years, we expect to obtain answers to all our questions about the origin of this pandemic, including questions that areimportant for China. At the same time, we are going to work hard to ensure that all Canadians have the equipment and the protection they need to get through this pandemic.The Chair: We now move toMr.Blanchet.Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet (BeloeilChambly, BQ): Thank you, Mr.Chair. I am sorry that I do not have my official headset. I was elsewhere, and I did not bring it with me. I hope that you can still hear meproperly. For some days, discussions have been going on between people from the Bloc Qubcois and people from the government with a view to collaboratively coming up with a proposal for seniors in Quebec andCanada. The gist of our proposal is to temporarily increase the old age security by about $25per week, or $110per month. By the way, I hate the term \"old age security. I prefer \"senior security. The discussion has beengoing on for some time and it's a proposal that we made in the election campaign. We are asking for it to be done at this point, at least temporarily. Parliament stopped sitting in the middle of March. We are now in May,and seniors still have nothing. They are impatient themselves, and we spend a good part of our days answering them. Given that impatience, I realized I should not be the one answering them, it should be the PrimeMinister. So here is my question for the Prime Minister: what are you doing to seek a solution that will increase the purchasing power of seniors in Quebec and Canada in the very short term?Right Hon. Justin Trudeau:Clearly, seniors need support and significant services from us because of COVID-19. Our priority was to implement income replacement benefits for workers who have lost their jobs because of COVID-19. Then weannounced different measures, including measures for seniors. The most vulnerable seniors are going to receive reimbursement of the GST, which will help them very quickly. We have also reduced by 25% theminimum amount that must be withdrawn from registered retirement income funds. We have also channelled $9million through the United Way, to help the most vulnerable seniors. Absolutely, I recognize that moremust be done. I am very pleased that we have been able to work with other parliamentarians, including those in the Bloc Qubcois, to hear these concerns and to find the best way to help seniors in the short term. Interms of the pandemic, they have concerns about their physical security, but also about their financial security. We will have more to say about this soon.Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet: In the last few hours, the PrimeMinister has indicated that he could need the cooperation of other parties, including the Bloc Qubcois, on a completely different matter. We are very open to that discussion, but we want the same openness when we areasking for something to serve the people of Quebec. The cost of a basket of groceries has increased for seniors, as it has for everyone else. It's true for all seniors over 65years old, of course. The current old agepension represents less than half of the Canada emergency student benefit. It represents less than one third of the basic Canada emergency response benefit. Seniors in my constituency, as in any other of the338constituencies, are asking what we are doing. They are asking how there can be nothing for them. When will there be something for them? I want to be able to give them an answer of some kind. What is the PrimeMinister's answer? I will repeat it to them.Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: There will be announcements in the coming days on the way in which we will be able to help seniors, particularly the most vulnerable seniors. Werecognize that the cost of a basket of groceries is increasing for everyone. That is why we have to do better for our seniors. There are horror stories, whether about the CHSLDs, or about our most vulnerable seniorsacross the country. Far too many families are experiencing tremendous grief. There are seniors who are alone, seniors who are afraid of falling ill without ever seeing their grandchildren or their children again. We haveto be there for those who belong to that great generation that fought for us during the second world war. Now we have to fight for them in their homes. That is exactly what we are going to do.The Chair: We'll go to thenext question. Ms. Collins.Ms. Laurel Collins (Victoria, NDP): Mr. Chair, every day I hear from people who are struggling to pay their bills and to keep a roof over their head. Instead of making sure that Canadians getthe help they need, the government has created complicated programs that are still letting people fall through the cracks. If the Prime Minister won't commit to a universal benefit, will he at least commit to removingthe restrictive eligibility criteria that are leaving the most vulnerable people behind?Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, we knew, when this pandemic hit, that we needed to help Canadians who were suffering fromcoast to coast to coast, particularly the most vulnerable. That is why we moved forward rapidly with the Canada emergency response benefit, which has helped over seven million individual Canadians and has made ahuge difference. We had to move very quickly to get this money out to people, and that is exactly what we did. We also recognized that there would be a need to do more. That is why since that moment, we havecontinually worked on reaching out to the most vulnerable and supporting them as well. We have more to do, but we knew that targeted approaches were what was most needed.Ms. Laurel Collins: Mr. Chair, the"}
{"doc_id":"doc_134","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Alright , that did nothing . Okay . Welcome to the meeting everyone . Just gonna attempt to make this into a slide show . Sorry guys .Marketing: You may have to do the function F_ eight thing .ProjectManager: I did . Twice .Marketing: Oh , okay . {vocalsound}Project Manager: This'll just take a moment . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay okay {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Or it won't .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay we'll have to deal with it like this then .Industrial Designer: Okay . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Alright . Um . This is thefirst meeting uh for developing our , our new product . {gap} I'm Heather , I'm your Project Manager .Industrial Designer: Hello . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay . So um . So that wasthe opening .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: The first thing we'll do is get acquainted with one another . If everyone could go around and explain their role and um , and their name .User Interface:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay . My name's Poppy . I'm the Industrial Designer for this project . Um , I'm going to be responsible for the functional design phase . Also the conceptual design and the detaileddesign for the final product .Project Manager: Nice to meet you Poppy .Industrial Designer: Okay . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} My name's Tara and I'm the User Interface Designer .Marketing:{vocalsound}User Interface: I will also be responsible for the functional design phase , the conceptual design phase and the detailed design phase of the user interface design . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Alright.Marketing: Hi , I'm Genevieve . I'm the Marketing Expert . I'm an expert at marketing .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Um , I'll be telling you guys about the userrequirement specifications for our new product . Um , I'll be doing some trend-watching in the conceptual design , and product evaluation for the design phase .Project Manager: Alright I'm Heather and I've I said I'myour Project Manager , um Well you can pretty much read what it is that I'm doing . But um um {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah . And uh tool training is onething that we're going to be doing today , um um as well as planning the project , how we're going to , uh , create this product , and , um , discuss , um , our aims and objects of this , Which brings us to our nextsubject ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: is , um , um ,Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: as a team we're going to be designing and creating a new kind of remote control . Um , we want thisto be a marketable product that can be trendy , um , a completely new style , so that , um , can really appeal to a , to a generation that doesn't want a simple plain kind of , uh , channel-changer . And , um , it needs tobe user-friendly for , um , maybe , for an example , for people that , um , can't see the numbers as well , or , um , perhaps an ergonomic design .Industrial Designer: Okay . So this is a television remote control ?ProjectManager: Yes , it's a television remote control .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Right . I believe I should be taking minutes on this right now . So , alright .Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: Um ,yeah . Um , the way that we're going to go about this is , um , we'll have a time where we can , um come up with new ideas alone , and , and work on the project and then , um , after we've brainstormed and , andthought about , we can come together in a meeting and , and discuss what , what um , what kind of functional design we want to use . Same with conceptual design and detailed design . So , um , making sure that it ,it's usable , that as a , um {disfmarker} and that it's , it's feasible to create , and uh , to come up with a concept of it want , what we want it to look like . Um , tool training . Is , is everyone , um {disfmarker} {gap}Okay .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Got those notes .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Great . Great .Marketing: Thank you .Project Manager: Um One thing that , uh , we're going to do is become more acquainted withthe , the tools that we have access to for our project . Um , one of them is our whiteboard . And , um , as a sort of team-building moment , um , I , I'd like us to , um , try out the whiteboard by expressing our favouriteanimal and the charac characteristics of that animal .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um , why that , why that should be your favourite animal .So , um , I , I'm assuming that we should do that now .Industrial Designer: Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: 'Kay .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}With our microphones still attached to our bodies . Okay . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay .User Interface: Gosh . {vocalsound}Project Manager: 'Kay , what's my favourite animal ?Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Do come up . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Oh ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {gap} to go first . {vocalsound} Oh ,Project Manager: This is a team-buildingtimeIndustrial Designer: are we all doing it individually ?User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: where , um , {vocalsound} ,Industrial Designer: Okay , let's stand up and support you{vocalsound}Project Manager: okay cool , um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: My favourite animal , which changes all the time , okay ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound}Project Manager: right now it is an elk .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay .User Interface: An elk ?Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: alright , so {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} Avicious {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Project Manager: And it goes like {disfmarker} Yeah it's got like big antlers ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: yeah . Looks kinda like , like it has holly growing out of itshead .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Do you have elk where you come from ?Project Manager: Yes .Industrial Designer: You do .ProjectManager: YeahMarketing: We have moose too . {vocalsound}Project Manager: we have moose and we have deer .Industrial Designer: Okay .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Do you have{disfmarker}User Interface: We have sheep . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} {gap} 'Kay , um .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Sheep . Yeah ,Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: cows .ProjectManager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: That's a great elk .Marketing: Uh-oh , we have a good artist . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: That is really good .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Thanks.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound}User Interface: I'm quite {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Project Manager: This is my {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Oh , very shapely .ProjectManager: Okay .Industrial Designer: Brilliant .Project Manager: That's a sketching of my my elk , and it , it is my favourite animal right now , 'cause it is a large beautiful majestic creature ,User Interface:{vocalsound}Project Manager: that um , that um {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: In a way it looks kind of awkward , because it's on spindly legs and it uh {disfmarker}User Interface:{vocalsound}Project Manager: But it can really overcome harsh terrain , and although it's gorgeous it's also very dangerous , because it has um strong antlers , and uh it can really combat its enemies , even like it it's ait's an herbivore but , uh , it can really defend itself .Industrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Very nice . Okay .Project Manager: Right .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager:Right , I'm gonna take minutes while , um , you guys express your favourite animals .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay , I'll go next . I am a big animal lover . like all sorts of animals , but for themoment I'm gonna draw a cat , in memory of my poor cat that died recently . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Oh .Project Manager: Oh .Industrial Designer: It's gonna be a bit of a strange drawing , but nevermind .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Not as artistic as Heather's drawing .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Bit more cartoon style .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: But I like cats because they're so independent , and they always seem to be doing what they want to bedoing . Um , but that doesn't mean they're completely not sociable , 'cause they enjoy interacting with humans as well , and they seem to enjoy the good things like sunshine and , um , running around outside as wellas being inside , and enjoying their food , and generally just , they just seemed so cool and {vocalsound} they just know what they're doing .User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Uh I reckonthey're sort of , they got it sorted . They know what they want .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Basically , that's why I like cats . {vocalsound}User Interface: Very good .{vocalsound}Project Manager: Great .Industrial Designer: {gap} I'll rub that out . There you go . {vocalsound}User Interface: Okay . I think my favourite animal would be a dog , but I'm not really sure {vocalsound}how to draw one .Industrial Designer: Ooh .User Interface: I , I've never drawn a dog , I don't think . I'm tempted to draw a snail 'cause I draw them sometimes {vocalsound} and they're really easy to draw.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Um ,Project Manager: I forget her name .User Interface: right it's gonna be a really funny dog , 'cause I'm notsure how to draw a dog .Marketing: TaraProject Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: or Tara .Industrial Designer: Well there are loads of different types of dogs , so I'm sure it'll represent one kind of dog .{vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} It's a cartoon dog I think .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: A s I don't ev Oh , oh well . {vocalsound} It's a scary cartoon dog .That {disfmarker} This ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: that does not look like a dog .Project Manager: {vocalsound} It looks kinda like a person . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Wecan pretend . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} I'm sorry .Marketing: {vocalsound} That's Pinocchio .User Interface: {vocalsound} {gap} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} How do you draw a dog ? I suppose it hasa lon Oh my god . Right . Yous know what it's supposed to be .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay .User Interface: {vocalsound} It's a dog . {vocalsound} . Um , I like dogs because , um , they're so good tohumans , like they can be trained to be police dogs and seeing-eye dogs , and they're just such friendly animals . And , like they're more of a companion than cats .Industrial Designer: Yeah , that's true .User Interface:{vocalsound} I've nothing against cats . Cats don't really like me , so I can't like them .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} But they're just so friendly and warm andnice animals ,Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} that don't look like that . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Alrighty . I feel like a robot .User Interface:{vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay . Um , well I guess I had the most time to think about it . I'm going to draw a butterfly , because I saw abutterfly yesterday , that seemed to be like the symbol of Spring arriving . And it was actually the prettiest butterfly I've ever seen out in the wild , and I though that was pretty cool in Scotland . It was like , well it wasa little pointier than that . At first I thought it was a dead leaf .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: And then it landed on the wall next to me . But this part was all brown and then it has these big blue dots like this .And then it kinda {disfmarker} there was a green , I think it was a green ring , and there was like red going out like this .Project Manager: It's kinda like a peacock .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah , itkinda was actually , 'cause it was {disfmarker} This part of the body was really dull , and then it was the most colourful exotic butterfly ever , and I'm like , wow this is the middle of Scotland in like March .ProjectManager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: So I thought that was pretty cool . And it landed by a wall and let me look at it for about two minutes . I wish I'd had my camera . So that's gonna bemy favourite animal because after all the snow it seemed to say that like Spring is finally here . Yeah .Industrial Designer: Very nice . {vocalsound}Marketing: There you go .Project Manager: Great .Marketing:{vocalsound} Uh , what do we {disfmarker} Oh .Project Manager: Do you hear the eraser buzzing while you do that ?Marketing: Yes I do . {vocalsound} {gap}Project Manager: Yea {vocalsound} Right .Marketing:{vocalsound}Project Manager: So , now that we know how to use the whiteboard ,Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: um , the next , um , thing we need to address is our financial department , to meet our ourbudget , um {disfmarker} or not meet our budget but more , um , like what kind of , uh , selling range we'll be looking at , um , wanna make this um {gap} selling price of twenty five Euros . And so we have to , um ,come up with a way to , to create a , a uh remote control , where um we can {disfmarker} like the price to create it will be significantly less . Um , we'd like to , um to , uh , make fifty million Euro . I'm assuming that'swhat the M_ means . Um , and make it for an international market . Um , one thing we'd have to think about internationally is in the design of , um , like different kinds of , uh , V_C_R_s . Things like that , depending onwhich country you are . Another thing for the design team to think about . Um , we want it to cost , uh , absolute maximum of twelve Euro and fifty cents .Marketing: Okay , so we'll have a hundred percent profit then ?Twelve fifty .Project Manager: I'm bad at math .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: 'Kay . {vocalsound} Um ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: so now that , um , that is underway , umIndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}Project Manager: it is discussion time . So this is time for us to bring our initial ideas , any um suggestions that you may have so far , a um your personal experiences with remote controls , andum , um , areas you see that , uh , could be improved in your experience with them . Does anyone have any initial thoughts ?Marketing: I find that in the dark it's often hard to know what button you're pushing .ProjectManager: Mm-hmm . So what's something we could , uh , do to remedy that ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {gap}Industrial Designer: Okay .Marketing: Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I alwaysfind that in our house the remote control always goes missing .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: It's always , where is the remote control ?User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .Industrial Designer: Somaybe if you could have some kind of tracking {vocalsound} device for the remote control or some signal that you could find out where it was .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I dunno , some kind ofalarm . You can press a button on your wall , {gap} signal ,Project Manager: Yeah . It's a great idea . It's a great idea .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: 'cause it always gets lost .User Interface: Doyous not find that , um , {vocalsound} like , there's a lot of , um , buttons on your remote control , and you don't know what half of them do .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Yeah ,that you don't use half of them . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah , I don't know what they do . {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm-hmm . There's some remote controls where there's kind of ahidden panel , so all those buttons that you don't really use unless you're programming or something .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah , that's , that's {disfmarker}Marketing: That's useful .IndustrialDesigner: Yeah , it is . Yeah .Marketing: So you just have like the number buttons , power button , T_V_ video button .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Alright . Anything about , um ,the look of the , uh , remote control that you might have ideas about . Maybe it could be , instead of like a standard rectangular shape , it could be , um , something more interesting like {disfmarker}Marketing:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Any ideas will do that you have at this point .Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: Could be shaped like a conch ,Project Manager: {vocalsound} Can hold it .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound} A novelty .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: you know . Be like a shell-shaped remote . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Are we going into kind of noveltyfactors here . Like , I've seen phones like a {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well if it's a trendy original , um , aspect we're going for .Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: I mean , you're the designers , you c ,you can um decide what kind of , um , direction you wanna go in ,Industrial Designer: Yeah . Mm-hmm .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: but at this point in the , in the first meeting it can be any ideas that wejust throw out there .Industrial Designer: Yeah . I suppose , if we're he heading to have it , like make a huge profit out of this , it needs to be quite a universally accepted thing . Like , a novelty thing might only sell afew things rather than , like , a general kind of more acceptable {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: But we don't wanna gotowards boring , 'cause that wouldn't sell either .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: So , hmm .Project Manager: And the key issue here is , is being trendy and original . Um , that does not necessarily mean itneeds to be outrageous .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Yeah .Project Manager: Right . Okay we have five minutes left . So , just to cover {disfmarker} We have one more thing . Um , like you can go over your ideas , ofcourse , in your own personal times . Um , our next meeting will be in half an hour .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: So you have half an hour to , uh , think about what you want to present . Or not presentbut bring to the meeting . Um , I_D_ , whatever that stands for .Industrial Designer: Industrial Designer .Marketing: Interface ?Project Manager: Industrial Designer .Industrial Designer: That's me .{vocalsound}Marketing: Oh , industrial .Project Manager: I have to remember these things . Um . You'll be beginning your , your working design .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Um , U_I_D_ thetechnical functions design will , will be worked on the next thirty minutes . Um , {vocalsound} maybe how this can be achieved , and , um , we need the user requirements from the manag Marketing Expert .Marketing:Marketing Expert . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um , you will get specific instructions , um , of what to do in the next half an hour . And I'll see you in half an hour , okay ?Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager:'Kay .Industrial Designer: Thank you .User Interface: {gap}"}
{"doc_id":"doc_135","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um {vocalsound} minutes from the last meeting which were essentially that we uh had decided on roles for each of you , however , um there are some changes that I've got from onhighUser Interface: Okay . {vocalsound}Project Manager: that um are a bit uh {disfmarker} well w what I didn't actually realise it was that the uh {vocalsound} this is for a specific television .User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: So the all in one idea goes out the window . And {vocalsound} they require that the uhUser Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: actually I'll get to that at the end {gap} point number four , um we'llget what you've got and then we can see what we can adapt from it . So um , presentations , were you {disfmarker} anybody got , raring to go ?Marketing: Yeah . Yeah .Project Manager: Raring to go ? Okay . Goodstuff . Mm .Marketing: Um . So how {disfmarker}Project Manager: Oh I need to plug you in . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: S {gap}Project Manager: Just about .User Interface: Wow .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: It's a inspired design .Marketing: {gap}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Sh do you want me to hold it ?Project Manager: Uh there we go , just screw 'em on in . Gonna have toswap them round so {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} So , after that ?Project Manager: now , it was function F_ eight .Marketing: F_ eight . {vocalsound} f oh sorry F_ eight .Project Manager: That'sthe wee blue one . Blue one F_ eight .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Should do it , good one .Marketing: Yeah . Yeah . Uh , me again , Rajan the Marketing Expert . Uh , as we have decided in the last meeting that Ihave to find out , sorry , yeah sure .Project Manager: Hold on , sorry . {gap} and if you just click that it'll go ahead , one at a time .Marketing: Yeah , yeah . Uh actually , sorry I have to see the other {gap} , sorry.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Sorry , uh .Marketing: Yeah , thank you .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Uh , yes , I have to look at the uh market potential for this product , uh , like consumer likings andeverything , what is the potential for this product and are we able to achieve our a net profit or our aims or not ? Then {disfmarker}Project Manager: P press F_ five to start it first .Marketing: Sorry . Okay . Yeah , I can, okay .Industrial Designer: Hmm .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Jesus .Marketing: Uh then uh the methodology I adopted to find out all this was market survey . A a detailed market survey on consumers was done tofind out their likings and dislikings , what they prefer what they not prefer , w what problems they do encounter in all this type of things . And what we got was , we found that {disfmarker} if you {disfmarker} uh ,what they th what problems they are having with different uh remote controls available in the market . Seventy five percent of users they do find it that the remote controls available in the market are ugly . They arenot so good looking . So , we have to put stress on this , uh we have to take care of this fact also like our design , uh should be appropriate , should be good looking for the consumers . And yes that's wi uh this willdefinitely , this can definitely put uh uh enhance our sales . Uh and even uh the good thing about this is that eighty percent of users they are willing to pay high uh pay more for this uh good looking remote controls also. So even if the available market goes for the available {disfmarker} uh even if the market goes for the available remote control is less even then we can sell it at twenty five Euros , which maybe which may seem quitehigh but if our looks are are if the re remote control we design have a good better uh better look uh designs , then we can hope that consumers will prefer these g remote controls .Project Manager: Excellent .Marketing:Then {disfmarker} {gap} And the second thing , some some companies they think that they should have more and more functions of the users uh or in their remote controls , but rather than those having morefunctions in the remote controls we should emphasise what actually consumer want , what they operate , rather than making it too complicated . Because mostly it has been found that fifty percent of the users they useonly ten percent of the buttons , so there is no point of having ninety percent buttons making the remote controls too bulky , too complicated too expensive a because I think I believe that technology is useful only if uhthe consumers they want to use it . Otherwise there is no point of having all this type of things . So this will not only reduce the cost of our remote controls but it will increase our profit also . So we have to take care ofthis fact also . Then . Uh it was function I want to go to .Project Manager: Oh you wanna go back ? Just escape .Marketing: Uh , escape , okay thank you . Then if we look at this slide ,Project Manager: Okay .Marketing:uh these are in your shared documents , you can see ,Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: like {disfmarker} Uh , sorry .User Interface: So , sorry {disfmarker} I was just gonna say , what was the question for this ? Oris {disfmarker} are you coming on to that ?Marketing: Ah t look all the market potential , what uh how we should design consu our remote controls , what they should be there so as to en enhance our profit , enhanceour sales .User Interface: Okay . So these percentages are are what ?Marketing: Yeah , these are different age group persons like uh sorry , I can open it in another way .Project Manager: Okay . Speech recognition.Marketing: Uh , yes . If we look at the costs whether the consumers they are willing to uh pay more for speech recognition in a remote control or not , we can find that they up to a thirty five years age group we have avery good disliking for this uh this uh point , like for speech recognition in a remote control .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: So we can emphasise on this point also like , because it will definitely enhanceour sales in this ag in this particular age group from uh fifteen to thirty five ,User Interface: Hmm .Marketing: and I uh and I think that most of the users of the rem uh T_V_ are belong to this age group . So we shouldlook {disfmarker}Project Manager: Hmm . We're als we we're looking at who buys it as well . {gap}Marketing: Yeah . We can look at that that factor also , so yes . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh , which I think thetwenty five to thirty five is uh usual , sort of .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: Mm , mm .Marketing: So , and {disfmarker} {gap}Project Manager: {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound} And then {disfmarker}ProjectManager: Fifteen to tweMarketing: Yes . I think so . Uh if we look at this data how how uh h how what are the problems the consumers are facing with the existing remote controls in the market .Project Manager:{vocalsound}Marketing: They find that thirt uh thirty five percent uh thirty four percent of the consumers they find too difficult to operate a remote control . So it should be in such a way that it should be easy to learnhow to operate these remote controls and we should provide pl uh spe uh proper manuals for its use also so as that people {disfmarker} consumers could easily learn . They need not to have any , much technicalknowledge to see uh to know how to operate these remote controls .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: So this is also a very goo uh major factor to loo uh take into consideration to enhance our profits and sales . Soum this is all aboutProject Manager: Okay . {vocalsound}Marketing: uh market potential by me .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Uh , yes , th thank you .Project Manager: Okay ,thank you . Um , {vocalsound} follow on with Helen ? Yeah please .User Interface: Yep , sure , that's cool , um {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah we have to take that {gap} out .Project Manager: Oh , so we do yeah.Marketing: Sorry .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Fun and games .Marketing: Sorry .Project Manager: Don't know if the cable's gonna be long enough .Marketing: Uh sorry , I have{gap} . {vocalsound}Project Manager: I think I just kicked over whatever it runs on underneath as well .Marketing: Brian , this one also I {gap} . Yeah .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Thank you very much Brian.User Interface: I can turn my computer quickly if that's okay .Marketing: If you want me to help , yeah .User Interface: Um , yep .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: Okay , and then whatdo I press , F_ eight ?Marketing: Uh F_ eight . Function F_ eight .Project Manager: Function F_ eight .User Interface: Oh right .Marketing: Mm s .User Interface: Okay , cool .Marketing: It's not coming . Function F_eight , okay .User Interface: Oh .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah . No signal . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Computer .Project Manager: Hmm .Marketing: Computer adjusting , yeah .Project Manager:There you go .User Interface: Okay . Cool .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: Okay and then how do I press the the big one , to get it on to the big {disfmarker}Project Manager: Uh F_ five .User Interface: F_ five and Ipress that again to get it off as well do I ?Marketing: Escape .Project Manager: Um , F_ five and escape'll bring it back and just uh the left button for advancing .User Interface: Okay , so um I'm the interface designdesigner , User Interface Designer sorry , uh I'm concerned with um w what effect the apparatus should have on the user and um I'm I'm also {disfmarker} I want to point out that our motto , put the fashion inelectronics ,Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: so obviously we as a company we want to make our products trendy and fashionable , it's a big concern of ours . Okay , and how do I press n just the nextbutton ?Project Manager: Uh just a left uhUser Interface: The arrow ? Okay .Project Manager: left mouse button .User Interface: So um I looked at existing designs and also um the information that Raj gave us wasvery useful about what people like , what people dislike . Um and what people {disfmarker} fashionable , because we said people between twenty five and thirty five were the main um buyers of of our T_V_ I think.Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Okay .User Interface: So um what they like and what they find fashionable .Project Manager: 'Kay .User Interface: {vocalsound} And ergonomics , we said um , I don't know I haven'tactually been able to do any of this myself ,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: but um maybe that comes up , I don't know .Project Manager: That can come under Arlo aswell .User Interface: And the findings , well the basic {disfmarker} that was the basic function to send messages to the television set .Project Manager: Uh .User Interface: That's what people want to do . Um , so theyneed to be included , um , but I've got some pictures here of some leading ones . I don't know how to get to them ,Project Manager: Uh if you if you escape then you can see your bar .User Interface: {vocalsound} do Ipress F_ five is it ? {gap} escape ? Oh okay , cool . I haven't got my glasses on so I hope it's this one .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh okay .User Interface: These are two leading um remote controls at the moment.Project Manager: 'Kay .User Interface: You know they're grey , they've I mean this one's got loads of buttons , it's hard to tell from here what they actually do ,Project Manager: {gap} {vocalsound}User Interface: andthey don't look very exciting at all . Um , personally I prefer this one just because it's looks easier use , it's a bit more sleek with more of this silver stuff ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: um , but there yougo , that's what we're up against ,Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: and I think we can do much better than that .Project Manager: {vocalsound} We hope so .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}{vocalsound} Of course . {vocalsound}User Interface: Um hang on . F_ five ,Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: okay , sorry . Personal preferences . Um , well I think we need to l I think the ergonomics isquite um important , umProject Manager: {gap} Yeah , particularly if we've uh there was a bit in Raj's about R_S_I_ and things as well .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: Uh-huh . And um I thought not too edgy and likea box , more kind of hand-held more um {vocalsound} not as uh computery andProject Manager: Organic {vocalsound} .User Interface: or organic , yeah , more organic shape I think . {vocalsound} Um simple designs, like the last one we just saw , not too many buttons and as Raj pointed out , only ten percent {disfmarker} fifty percent of people only use ten percent of the buttons ,Marketing: {gap}Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: so I think what we can miss out on the buttons we can make up for in design and and how nice it looks .Project Manager: Sales , {gap} . Okay .User Interface: Um , hand-held and portable I think isportamint is important because T_F_T_ have just um released um I think is it a a remote control for presentations or uh and a big seven inch big screen , anyway , so um {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah it's like a ,yeah . {vocalsound} It's {gap} . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah , no seven inches isn't that big but um anyway um so hand-held and portable and uh m I thought about other functions for T_V_ but as you pointedout people don't actually want that ,Project Manager: Right .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: And also the company want to keep it stuck to the T_V_ for uh to keep down the production time .User Interface: somaybe we forget about that . It's for one T_V_ oh right okay , sure . And so the last thing I thought w which I quickly mentioned in the other one was maybe a bit of a gimmick to set us apart from other people , likeglow-in-the-darkProject Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Exactly . Yeah .User Interface: um which {vocalsound} does already e exist but it's not very widely used I don't think .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface:Easy finder with the a whistle function or something ,Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: or rechargeable station because it's a pain when you run out of batteries .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: And I thinkthat , yep , that's it .Project Manager: That's cool .Industrial Designer: So uh , I noticed your talk about speech recognition and whistling ,User Interface: Okay ? Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: and uh I was just curiousto know , have we done any research into how many people can whistle ? Um , or if {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: is that a function we want in the remote?Project Manager: Um , do you have trouble whistling ?User Interface: Um , I haven't been able to {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I don't , but I I know a lot of people do right .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Really?Industrial Designer: Yeah it justProject Manager: Ooh . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {disfmarker} I mean it has to be a certain kind of whistle too , right ?Project Manager: Yeah , I suppose that's true .UserInterface: Mm-hmm , yeahProject Manager: Well I suppo uh you could y you could have theUser Interface: or some sort of voice {disfmarker}Project Manager: you could have the basically um instead of a whistle if it'sgot the voice recognition you could have it just , you know , where are you ? {gap} . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} That's costly though .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer:Um a much easier thing is just any loud noise like clapping um , shouting , you know ,Project Manager: Hmm .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: uh and then , what would the response be? It beeps back at you or something ?Project Manager: Sounds good .User Interface: Yeah , something .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Well , uh let me setthis up . So I plug it in , press F_ five ? Function F_ five ?Project Manager: Function F_ eight for the um the uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Or function F_ eight ? Okay .User Interface: Oh you need to twiddle thethingamibobsy thing .Industrial Designer: Okay . I think it's {vocalsound} uh just to lock it in . It's got it .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay .Project Manager:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Um . {vocalsound} So as the Industrial Designer my job is to take an input from you guys ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: um so it's good you went first ,ProjectManager: Alright .Industrial Designer: and I jotted down some notes as to what are the b needs and uh what kind of novel features we can add to differentiate our product from the others .User Interface:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Let's remember that .Industrial Designer: Um so Raj told us that uh consumers are willing to spend more for fancy products , and um he also mentioned that uh the current products don'talways match users' operating behaviour . Um , a lot of the buttons aren't used , and uh {vocalsound} he mentioned that they're not fun to use . And uh a novel feature which uh we just brought up was this thisautomatic speech recognition feature or noise detection feature for when you lose the remote ,Project Manager: {gap}Industrial Designer: there could be a little microphone on it , and any noise over a certain thresholdum it'll pick up as a a distress signal um from you and it'll beep back and say you know oh here I am or something of this sort .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . But sure surely that would have to be um sort of specificrather than above a threshold 'cause if you had a loud movie on you're likely to get it beeping back at you .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Oh yeah , yeah , that's true .User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Well maybe you could have a um hmm {vocalsound} tha that would be a consideration to take into account yes . Um .Project Manager: Sorry I didn't mean to derail you there .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah well tha that's uh for later down the road um , and then as for the user interface it should be trendy , um {vocalsound} and not computery ,User Interface: {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: right , so more low tech and not too many buttons .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: So I took these all into consideration and also I have some limitations fromthe boss .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Right um , and practical limitations which I kinda threw out the window .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: And so I did a little research andunfortunately all I had to work on was our uh our corporate archives of the great products we've made before ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: which include , you know , um space craft , coffee makers, and bullet trains {disfmarker} Or uh or a high speed train .Project Manager: Ah is that what that is ? {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Right and having personally workedwith all these products uh I have a great deal of experience with uh with industrial design of these .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well that's cool . If you if you can build space craft you'll have noproblem with a remote control , yeah .Industrial Designer: Right . So ,User Interface: Yeah sure .Industrial Designer: I figured , just put 'em all together .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: You got a acaffeine powered space shuttle train transport to your T_V_ , and umUser Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Hmm .Industrial Designer: as for the user interface problem , you know , toomany buttons . Give it one buttonUser Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and and it's a {disfmarker} you know , for the the cowboy in all of us {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {disfmarker} I I'm not quite sure what the the function is there but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Right okay . {vocalsound}User Interface: Well I like that design .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah it's a g I mean you could have a you know a {disfmarker}Project Manager: Is that just switches on the speech recognition and it's entirely speech operated , is it ?IndustrialDesigner: Right . So I think I I missed the budget thing ,Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: it was fifty million Euros ?User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Yeah .Industrial Designer: And we gotta sell twenty five of them ? Right . {vocalsound} Okay . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah , not a problem .Marketing: Fifty million was uh profProject Manager: Ah now it's fif fiftymillion Euros we've gotta uh we've g {vocalsound}Marketing: As a profit .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Oh okay , so I I mixed those numbers .Project Manager: gotta make profit , so we're making"}
{"doc_id":"doc_136","qid":"","text":"Grad C: Yeah , we had a long discussion about how much w how easy we want to make it for people to bleep things out . So {disfmarker} Morgan wants to make it hard .PhD D: It {disfmarker} it doesn't{disfmarker}Grad C: Did {disfmarker} did {disfmarker} did it {disfmarker} ? I didn't even check yesterday whether it was moving .PhD D: It didn't move yesterday either when I started it .Grad C: So .PhD D: So Idon't know if it doesn't like both of us {disfmarker}Grad C: Channel three ? Channel three ?PhD D: You know , I discovered something yesterday on these , um , wireless ones .Grad B: Channel two .Grad C: Mm - hmm?PhD D: You can tell if it 's picking up {pause} breath noise and stuff .Grad C: Yeah , it has a little indicator on it {disfmarker} on the AF .PhD D: Mm - hmm . So if you {disfmarker} yeah , if you breathe under{disfmarker} breathe and then you see AF go off , then you know {pause} it 's p picking up your mouth noise .PhD F: Oh , that 's good . Cuz we have a lot of breath noises .Grad C: Yep . Test .PhD F: In fact , if youlisten to just the channels of people not talking , it 's like \" @ @ \" . It 's very disgustGrad C: What ? Did you see Hannibal recently or something ?PhD F: Sorry . Exactly . It 's very disconcerting . OK . So , um ,Grad C:PhD F: I was gonna try to get out of here , like , in half an hour , um , cuz I really appreciate people coming , and {vocalsound} the main thing that I was gonna ask people to help with today is {pause} to give input onwhat kinds of database format we should {pause} use in starting to link up things like word transcripts and annotations of word transcripts , so anything that transcribers or discourse coders or whatever put in thesignal , {vocalsound} with time - marks for , like , words and phone boundaries and all the stuff we get out of the forced alignments and the recognizer . So , we have this , um {disfmarker} I think a starting point isclearly the {disfmarker} the channelized {pause} output of Dave Gelbart 's program , which Don brought a copy of ,Grad C: Yeah . Yeah , I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm familiar with that . I mean , we {disfmarker} I sort ofalready have developed an XML format for this sort of stuff .PhD F: um , which {disfmarker}PhD D: Can I see it ?Grad C: And so the only question {disfmarker} is it the sort of thing that you want to use or not ? Haveyou looked at that ? I mean , I had a web page up .PhD F: Right . So ,Grad C: So {disfmarker}PhD F: I actually mostly need to be able to link up , or {disfmarker} I it 's {disfmarker} it 's a question both of what therepresentation is and {disfmarker}Grad C: You mean , this {disfmarker} I guess I am gonna be standing up and drawing on the board .PhD F: OK , yeah . So you should , definitely .Grad C: Um , so {disfmarker} so itdefinitely had that as a concept . So tha it has a single time - line ,PhD F: Mm - hmm .Grad C: and then you can have lots of different sections , each of which have I Ds attached to it , and then you can refer from othersections to those I Ds , if you want to . So that , um {disfmarker} so that you start with {disfmarker} with a time - line tag . \" Time - line \" . And then you have a bunch of times . I don't e I don't remember exactlywhat my notation was ,PhD A: Oh , I remember seeing an example of this .Grad C: but it {disfmarker}PhD F: Right , right .PhD A: Yeah .Grad C: Yeah , \" T equals one point three two \" , uh {disfmarker} And then I{disfmarker} I also had optional things like accuracy , and then \" ID equals T one , uh , one seven \" . And then , {nonvocalsound} I also wanted to {disfmarker} to be i to be able to not specify specifically what the timewas and just have a stamp .PhD F: Right .Grad C: Yeah , so these are arbitrary , assigned by a program , not {disfmarker} not by a user . So you have a whole bunch of those . And then somewhere la further down youmight have something like an utterance tag which has \" start equals T - seventeen , end equals T - eighteen \" . So what that 's saying is , we know it starts at this particular time . We don't know when it ends .PhD F:OK .Grad C: Right ? But it ends at this T - eighteen , which may be somewhere else . We say there 's another utterance . We don't know what the t time actually is but we know that it 's the same time as this end time.PhD A: Mmm .Grad C: You know , thirty - eight , whatever you want .PhD A: So you 're essentially defining a lattice .Grad C: OK . Yes , exactly .PhD A: Yeah .Grad C: And then , uh {disfmarker} and then these alsohave I Ds . Right ? So you could {disfmarker} you could have some sort of other {disfmarker} other tag later in the file that would be something like , um , oh , I don't know , {comment} uh , {nonvocalsound} \" noise -type equals {nonvocalsound} door - slam \" . You know ? And then , uh , {nonvocalsound} you could either say \" time equals a particular time - mark \" or you could do other sorts of references . So {disfmarker} or{disfmarker} or you might have a prosody {disfmarker} \" Prosody \" right ? D ? T ? D ? T ? T ?PhD F: It 's an O instead of an I , but the D is good .Grad C: You like the D ? That 's a good D .PhD F: Yeah .Grad C: Um ,you know , so you could have some sort of type here , and then you could have , um {disfmarker} the utterance that it 's referring to could be U - seventeen or something like that .PhD F: OK . So , I mean , that seems{disfmarker} that seems g great for all of the encoding of things with time and ,Grad C: Oh , well .PhD F: um {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I guess my question is more , uh , what d what do you do with , say , a forcedalignment ?PhD A: How - howPhD F: I mean you 've got all these phone labels , and what do you do if you {disfmarker} just conceptually , if you get , um , transcriptions where the words are staying but the timeboundaries are changing , cuz you 've got a new recognition output , or s sort of {disfmarker} what 's the , um , sequence of going from the waveforms that stay the same , the transcripts that may or may not change ,and then the utterance which {disfmarker} where the time boundaries that may or may not change {disfmarker} ?PhD A: Oh , that 's {disfmarker} That 's actually very nicely handled here because you could{disfmarker} you could {disfmarker} all you 'd have to change is the , {vocalsound} um , time - stamps in the time - line without {disfmarker} without , uh , changing the I Ds .PhD F: Um . And you 'd be able topropagate all of the {disfmarker} the information ?Grad C: Right . That 's , the who that 's why you do that extra level of indirection . So that you can just change the time - line .PhD A: Except the time - line is gonnabe huge . If you say {disfmarker}Grad C: Yes .PhD F: Yeah ,PhD A: suppose you have a phone - level alignment .PhD F: yeah , especially at the phone - level .PhD A: You 'd have {disfmarker} you 'd have{disfmarker}PhD F: The {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we have phone - level backtraces .Grad C: Yeah , this {disfmarker} I don't think I would do this for phone - level . I think for phone - level you want to use somesort of binary representationPhD F: Um {disfmarker}Grad C: because it 'll be too dense otherwise .PhD F: OK . So , if you were doing that and you had this sort of companion , uh , thing that gets called up for phone -level , uh , what would that look like ?PhD A: WhyGrad C: I would use just an existing {disfmarker} an existing way of doing it .PhD F: How would you {disfmarker} ?PhD A: Mmm . But {disfmarker} but why not use itfor phone - level ?PhD F: H hPhD A: It 's just a matter of {disfmarker} it 's just a matter of it being bigger . But if you have {disfmarker} you know , barring memory limitations , or uh {disfmarker} I w I mean this isstill the mGrad C: It 's parsing limitations . I don't want to have this text file that you have to read in the whole thing to do something very simple for .PhD A: Oh , no . You would use it only {pause} for {pause}purposes where you actually want the phone - level information , I 'd imagine .PhD F: So you could have some file that configures how much information you want in your {disfmarker} in your XML or something .GradC: Right . I mean , you 'd {disfmarker} yPhD F: Um ,PhD A: You {disfmarker}Grad C: I {disfmarker} I am imagining you 'd have multiple versions of this depending on the information that you want .PhD F: cuz th itdoes get very bush with {disfmarker} Right .Grad C: Um , I 'm just {disfmarker} what I 'm wondering is whether {disfmarker} I think for word - level , this would be OK .PhD F: Yeah .Grad C: For word - level , it 'salright .PhD F: Yeah . Definitely .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Grad C: For lower than word - level , you 're talking about so much data that I just {disfmarker} I don't know . I don't know if that {disfmarker}PhD F: I mean , weactually have {disfmarker} So , one thing that Don is doing , is we 're {disfmarker} we 're running {disfmarker} For every frame , you get a pitch value ,PhD D: Lattices are big , too .PhD F: and not only one pitch valuebut different kinds of pitch valuesGrad C: Yeah , I mean , for something like that I would use P - filePhD F: depending on {disfmarker}Grad C: or {disfmarker} or any frame - level stuff I would use P - file .PhD F:Meaning {disfmarker} ?Grad C: Uh , that 's a {disfmarker} well , or something like it . It 's ICS uh , ICSI has a format for frame - level representation of features . Um .PhD F: OK . That you could call {disfmarker} thatyou would tie into this representation with like an ID .Grad C: Right . Right . Or {disfmarker} or there 's a {disfmarker} there 's a particular way in XML to refer to external resources .PhD F: And {disfmarker} OK .GradC: So you would say \" refer to this external file \" . Um , so that external file wouldn't be in {disfmarker}PhD F: So that might {disfmarker} that might work .PhD D: But what {disfmarker} what 's the advantage of doingthat versus just putting it into this format ?Grad C: More compact , which I think is {disfmarker} is better .PhD D: Uh - huh .Grad C: I mean , if you did it at this {disfmarker}PhD F: I mean these are long meetings andwith {disfmarker} for every frame ,Grad C: You don't want to do it with that {disfmarker} Anything at frame - level you had better encode binaryPhD F: um {disfmarker}Grad C: or it 's gonna be really painful .PhD A:Or you just compre I mean , I like text formats . Um , b you can always , uh , G - zip them , and , um , you know , c decompress them on the fly if y if space is really a concern .PhD D: Yeah , I was thi I was thinking theadvantage is that we can share this with other people .Grad C: Well , but if you 're talking about one per frame , you 're talking about gigabyte - size files . You 're gonna actually run out of space in your filesystem forone file .PhD F: These are big files . These are really {disfmarker} I mean {disfmarker}Grad C: Right ? Because you have a two - gigabyte limit on most O Ss .PhD A: Right , OK . I would say {disfmarker} OK , so frame- level is probably not a good idea . But for phone - level stuff it 's perfectly {disfmarker}PhD F: And th it 's {disfmarker}PhD A: Like phones , or syllables , or anything like that .PhD F: Phones are every five framesthough , so . Or something like that .PhD A: But {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} but most of the frames are actually not speech . So , you know , people don't {disfmarker} v Look at it , words times the average{disfmarker} The average number of phones in an English word is , I don't know , {comment} five maybe ?PhD F: Yeah , but we actually {disfmarker}PhD A: So , look at it , t number of words times five . That 's not{disfmarker} that not {disfmarker}PhD F: Oh , so you mean pause phones take up a lot of the {disfmarker} long pause phones .PhD A: Exactly .Grad C: Yep .PhD A: Yeah .PhD F: Yeah . OK . That 's true . But you dohave to keep them in there . Y yeah .Grad C: So I think it {disfmarker} it 's debatable whether you want to do phone - level in the same thing .PhD F: OK .Grad C: But I think , a anything at frame - level , even P - file ,is too verbose .PhD F: OK . So {disfmarker}Grad C: I would use something tighter than P - files .PhD F: Do you {disfmarker} Are you familiar with it ?Grad C: So .PhD F: I haven't seen this particular format ,PhD A: Imean , I 've {disfmarker} I 've used them .PhD F: but {disfmarker}PhD A: I don't know what their structure is .PhD F: OK .PhD A: I 've forgot what the strPhD D: But , wait a minute , P - file for each frame is storing avector of cepstral or PLP values ,Grad C: It 's whatever you want , actually .PhD D: right ? Right .Grad C: So that {disfmarker} what 's nice about the P - file {disfmarker} It {disfmarker} i Built into it is the concept of{pause} frames , utterances , sentences , that sort of thing , that structure . And then also attached to it is an arbitrary vector of values . And it can take different types .PhD F: Oh .Grad C: So it {disfmarker} th theydon't all have to be floats . You know , you can have integers and you can have doubles , and all that sort of stuff .PhD F: So that {disfmarker} that sounds {disfmarker} that sounds about what I wGrad C: Um . Right ?And it has a header {disfmarker} it has a header format that {pause} describes it {pause} to some extent . So , the only problem with it is it 's actually storing the {pause} utterance numbers and the {pause} framenumbers in the file , even though they 're always sequential . And so it does waste a lot of space .PhD A: Hmm .Grad C: But it 's still a lot tighter than {disfmarker} than ASCII . And we have a lot of tools already to dealwith it .PhD F: You do ? OK . Is there some documentation on this somewhere ?Grad C: Yeah , there 's a ton of it . Man - pages and , uh , source code , and me .PhD F: OK , great . So , I mean , that sounds good . I{disfmarker} I was just looking for something {disfmarker} I 'm not a database person , but something sort of standard enough that , you know , if we start using this we can give it out , other people can work on it,Grad C: Yeah , it 's not standard .PhD F: or {disfmarker} {comment} Is it {disfmarker} ?Grad C: I mean , it 's something that we developed at ICSI . But , uh {disfmarker}PhD F: But it 's {pause} been used hereGradC: But it 's been used herePhD F: and people 've {disfmarker}Grad C: and {disfmarker} and , you know , we have a {pause} well - configured system that you can distribute for free , and {disfmarker}PhD D: I mean ,it must be the equivalent of whatever you guys used to store feat your computed features in , right ?PhD F: OK .PhD A: Yeah , th we have {disfmarker} Actually , we {disfmarker} we use a generalization of the{disfmarker} the Sphere format .PhD D: Mmm .PhD A: Um , but {disfmarker} Yeah , so there is something like that but it 's , um , probably not as sophistGrad C: Well , what does H T K do for features ?PhD D: And Ithink there 's {disfmarker}Grad C: Or does it even have a concept of features ?PhD A: They ha it has its own {disfmarker} I mean , Entropic has their own feature format that 's called , like , S - SD or some so SF orsomething like that .PhD F: Yeah .Grad C: I 'm just wondering , would it be worth while to use that instead ?PhD D: Yeah .PhD A: Hmm ?PhD F: Yeah . Th - this is exactly the kind of decision {disfmarker} It 's justwhatever {disfmarker}PhD D: But , I mean , people don't typically share this kind of stuff , right ?PhD A: Right .Grad C: They generate their own .PhD D: I mean {disfmarker} Yeah .PhD F: Actually , I {disfmarker} Ijust {disfmarker} you know , we {disfmarker} we 've done this stuff on prosodics and three or four places have asked for those prosodic files , and we just have an ASCII , uh , output of frame - by - frame .Grad C: Ah ,right .PhD F: Which is fine , but it gets unwieldy to go in and {disfmarker} and query these files with really huge files .Grad C: Right .PhD F: I mean , we could do it . I was just thinking if there 's something that{disfmarker} where all the frame values are {disfmarker}Grad C: And a and again , if you have a {disfmarker} if you have a two - hour - long meeting , that 's gonna {disfmarker}PhD F: Hmm ? They 're {disfmarker}they 're fair they 're quite large .Grad C: Yeah , I mean , they 'd be emo enormous .PhD F: And these are for ten - minute Switchboard conversations ,Grad C: Right .PhD F: and {disfmarker} So it 's doable , it 's justthat you can only store a feature vector at frame - by - frame and it doesn't have any kind of ,PhD D: Is {disfmarker} is the sharing part of this a pretty important {pause} considerationPhD F: um {disfmarker}PhD D:or does that just sort of , uh {disfmarker} a nice thing to have ?PhD F: I {disfmarker} I don't know enough about what we 're gonna do with the data . But I thought it would be good to get something that we can{disfmarker} that other people can use or adopt for their own kinds of encoding . And just , I mean we have to use some we have to make some decision about what to do .Grad C: Yeah .PhD F: And especially for theprosody work , what {disfmarker} what it ends up being is you get features from the signal , and of course those change every time your alignments change . So you re - run a recognizer , you want to recompute yourfeatures , um , and then keep the database up to date .Grad C: Right .PhD F: Or you change a word , or you change a {vocalsound} utterance boundary segment , which is gonna happen a lot . And so I wantedsomething where {pause} all of this can be done in a elegant way and that if somebody wants to try something or compute something else , that it can be done flexibly . Um , it doesn't have to be pretty , it just has tobe , you know , easy to use , and {disfmarker}Grad C: Yeah , the other thing {disfmarker} We should look at ATLAS , the NIST thing ,PhD F: Oh .PhD A: Mmm .Grad C: and see if they have anything at that level .PhDF: Uh {disfmarker}Grad C: I mean , I 'm not sure what to do about this with ATLAS , because they chose a different route . I chose something that {disfmarker} Th - there are sort of two choices . Your {disfmarker}your file format can know about {disfmarker} know that you 're talking about language {pause} and speech , which is what I chose , and time , or your file format can just be a graph representation . And then theapplication has to impose the structure on top . So what it looked like ATLAS chose is , they chose the other way , which was their file format is just nodes and links , and you have to interpret what they mean yourself.PhD F: And why did you not choose that type of approach ?Grad C: Uh , because I knew that we were doing speech , and I thought it was better if you 're looking at a raw file to be {disfmarker} t for the tags to say \" it's an utterance \" , as opposed to the tag to say \" it 's a link \" .PhD F: OK . OK .Grad C: So , but {disfmarker}PhD F: But other than that , are they compatible ? I mean , you could sort of {disfmarker}Grad C: Yeah , they're reasonably compatible .PhD F: I mean , you {disfmarker} you could {disfmarker}PhD D: You could probably translate between them .Grad C: Yep .PhD F: Yeah , that 's w So ,Grad C: So , well , the other thing is ifwe choose to use ATLAS , which maybe we should just do , we should just throw this out before we invest a lot of time in it .PhD F: OK . I don't {disfmarker} So this is what the meeting 's about ,Grad C: Yeah .PhD F:just sort of how to {disfmarker} Um , cuz we need to come up with a database like this just to do our work . And I actually don't care , as long as it 's something useful to other people , what we choose .Grad C: Yeah.PhD F: So maybe it 's {disfmarker} maybe oth you know , if {disfmarker} if you have any idea of how to choose , cuz I don't .Grad C: The only thing {disfmarker} Yeah .PhD A: Do they already have tools ?Grad C: Imean , I {disfmarker} I chose this for a couple reasons . One of them is that it 's easy to parse . You don't need a full XML parser . It 's very easy to just write a Perl script {pause} to parse it .PhD A: As long as uh eachtag is on one line .Grad C: Exactly . Exactly . Which I always do .PhD F: And you can have as much information in the tag as you want , right ?Grad C: Well , I have it structured . Right ? So each type tag has onlyparticular items that it can take .PhD F: Can you {disfmarker} But you can add to those structures if you {disfmarker}Grad C: Sure . If you have more information . So what {disfmarker} What NIST would say is thatinstead of doing this , you would say something like \" link {nonvocalsound} start equals , um , you know , some node ID ,PhD F: Yeah . So {disfmarker}Grad C: end equals some other node ID \" , and then \" type \"would be \" utterance \" .PhD A: Hmm .Grad C: You know , so it 's very similar .PhD F: So why would it be a {disfmarker} a waste to do it this way if it 's similar enough that we can always translate it ?PhD D: It probablywouldn't be a waste . It would mean that at some point if we wanted to switch , we 'd just have to translate everything .Grad C: Write a translator . But it se Since they are developing a big {disfmarker}PhD F: But it{disfmarker} but that sounds {disfmarker}PhD D: But that 's {disfmarker} I don't think that 's a big deal .PhD F: As long as it is {disfmarker}Grad C: they 're developing a big infrastructure . And so it seems to me that"}
{"doc_id":"doc_137","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Excellent . So um I sent you the agenda , it was on the {disfmarker} in the project documents . I don't know if you got a chance to just have a look at it . Anyway , it's {disfmarker} the meeting'sgonna follow more or less the same structure as last time , so we'll go round each of you in turn and you can give your presentations on what you've been up to . Um and at the end of that we need to discuss whatyou've come up with , so that we can make a decision on the key remote control concepts , so that's {disfmarker} we need to know about the components' properties , materials , the user interface and any trends thatthe Marketing Expert has been watching .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Right .Project Manager: Okay . Um , do you wanna start again ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay .Project Manager: Let me{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Right s {vocalsound}Project Manager: we've got forty minutes .Industrial Designer: so I haven't made a PowerPoint presentation ,Project Manager: {vocalsound} You haven't made aPowerPoint , okay .Industrial Designer: yeah , I I thought I'll use the whiteboard instead .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Um mm , {vocalsound}Project Manager: Let's hope the pen holds out .{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: okay , so basically I'll start off by {disfmarker} uh {vocalsound} I thought I'll use the whiteboard because we have so many different options and what we cando is that we can start um uh rubbing off the options that we do not require and putting in the options that uh are m or highlighting or underlining them or something like that .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .IndustrialDesigner: Okay , so uh I'll start again with a brief introduction to {disfmarker} connect that anyway {disfmarker} brief introduction to the insides of a remote controlProject Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: and uhthen we can probably uh discuss the various components . Yeah . Okay , so w what you see here is {disfmarker} so {vocalsound} this is the outside of the remote , right ? If you open it , you have a circuit board here ,right ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: and this is the chip that I was talking about last time . This basically sends information to a tr uh transistor here , which then uh sends the information to anL_E_D_ device here . If you flip the printed circuit board , and this is th the most important point here ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: uh {vocalsound} everything else is kind of {disfmarker} Okay ,so if you flip the circuit board , this is what it looks like . So you see for example a particular button attaches to a particular place on the P_C_B_ and uhProject Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: on pressing thisbutton I {disfmarker} a circuit completes , the information goes to the chip , which is somewhere here and the chip that tra then translates the code into an infra infrared radiation , which goes goes out through there .{vocalsound} So uh the important point that I read over the website was uh that the configurations of these printed circuit circuit boards uh are quite cheap to make , you can ge get them printed as you want to,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: so w we can have a configuration um irrespective of the cost , the way we want to have . Right ? So that's the important point here ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: so these are the different options that we have . Okay . So the batteries , I'll start with the battery , right ?Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: So they can be simple which is like uhthe normal batteries in uh our {disfmarker} uh the cells , yeah ?Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Uh thes these are the kind {disfmarker} different kind of batteries that the company makes , right ? So . Anddynamos . Um {vocalsound}Marketing: Does that mean like a wind-up one ?Industrial Designer: yeah , yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound} A wind-up remote .Industrial Designer: So uh I don't know if {disfmarker} even ifyou want to consider this ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: but these are the different things that the company makes , so th they'll they'll {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer:since uh they'll come internally from the company , they'll be eas uh cheaper , uh all these options .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: So {vocalsound} the third one is uh the kinetic energy ones.Marketing: You could make the hand dynamo into an exercise bike , and then people could exercise whilst watching T_V_ .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: And charging their remote ,Marketing: Yeah , andstop worrying about the whole R_S_I_ from the remote thing , 'cause that's just {disfmarker}Project Manager: yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Yeah , it's a goodoption .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} So what was what was this k kaIndustrial Designer: The the kinetic energy one is uh that e uh uh they are usually modern watches , since our handkeeps moving , it keeps the watch ticking .User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: Uh yeah .Industrial Designer: But I dunno i if it is a good idea for a remote control , because it'll just lie there for a long whilesometimes .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . For a remote , 'cause you {disfmarker} Yeah .Industrial Designer: But as soon as you pick it up it moves and then again it uh re recharges or something .User Interface:Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: And the fourth option is the solar cells , which are also {vocalsound} made by the company .Marketing: Yay .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:Environment friendly . Okay {vocalsound} um so I'll list things and then we can come back and discuss what what we think from uh everybody's perspective .Project Manager: Yeah {vocalsound} .Industrial Designer:There are different cases that can be provided . They can be {disfmarker} basically the shape of the cases , they can be flat , they can be curved with uh one-sided curved and one side flat ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: and they can be curved with {disfmarker} on both the sides .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} These are the three options , right ? Um {vocalsound}{disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} Um you mean this would be like the the overall shape of the remote control , yeah ,Industrial Designer: Yeah , would it be flat on both the sides , would be curved from oneside , or whatever {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: mm-hmm . Yeah , mm-hmm , mm-hmm .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Mm-hmm mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: uh there were different kindof supplements available , um like it can be in plastic , rubber , wood , or titanium , right ?Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Okay .Industrial Designer: Wo wo wood .Marketing: Did you say wool ?Project Manager: Wood ,wood .Marketing: Wood . Oh right .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound} Not wool . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} .Project Manager: {vocalsound} A fluffy remote .{vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah , you'll understand why when we get to my presenta {vocalsound} .Industrial Designer: Oh really ? {vocalsound} Okay . Um the {disfmarker}Project Manager: Huh .Industrial Designer:so uh we can use even um {vocalsound} a certain titanium is also used uh in the company to make uh {vocalsound} uh some space design equipment , so it's kind of um uh it'll be probably nicer to use , because itrelates to the overall image of the company , but uh it cannot be used on a double curved surface . If we choose this , we cannot use titanium . For for these two we can use titanium , wood , rubber , or plastic .ProjectManager: Mm .Industrial Designer: Yeah ?Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Uh okay , the interface options now . So {vocalsound} we can have push-buttons , like most remotes do and our company isan expert in making push-buttons .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Ooh . Uh we can have scroll wheels like the ones on um uh mouse pointers uh uh{disfmarker}Marketing: Sony .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Sony Ericsson mobile phones has it .Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah , something like that .Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} So ,and they have {disfmarker} they can even have an an integrated uh push-button inside the scrolling thing .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: The scroll plus push . So this is something that has been recentlydeveloped by the company , um {vocalsound} in the last decade , so not too recent . And L_C_D_s , we can have L_C_D_s . So these two are recent and and this is q quite old .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound} The various electronic options are um uh {vocalsound} so th this concerns firs first of all the the chips I I showed you at uh {disfmarker} so there's there's a chip behind this one , right ? TheP_C_B_ is uh inexpensive , so we can put put in uh whatever we want , but the various integrated circuit options are , we have either a simple oneProject Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: or a regular oradvanced . And uh the price goes up as we go down , obviously .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Um {vocalsound} okay , so the good thing about uh wh wh why why we would want to use advanced uwhy we might want to use advanced is that L_C_D_s can only come with the advanced chip .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Um the {disfmarker} we need regular or advanced for uh scroll wheels .Right ? Um {vocalsound} and the chip basically includes the infra infrared sender .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Uh besides this in electr under electronics uh also the company has startedmaking a sample sender , which is {vocalsound} {disfmarker} did not explained what i what it was , but I'm guessing that uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker} so they have a sample sender and a sample speaker . So I'mguessing that uh the sample speaker is probably something like um uh you know , as soon as you press a button , it it mm uh give gives you feedback , one five or whatever . Yeah , on .Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Um {vocalsound} and uh I dunno whether sample sender sender has to do something with voice recognition or not , but anyway .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: So , these are thedifferent options that we have . Okay , so {vocalsound} th that's that's basically {disfmarker} now now uh I think that uh we can integrate um {vocalsound} uh you know , uh the user interface uh and uh the marketingthings in that , keep uh taking out things from this and uh underlining things that are important , yeah .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Excellent . Do you wanna staysomewhere near the board , so that if we need to {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah , sure . Sure . Yeah .Project Manager: you can sit down , but just {disfmarker} {vocalsound} wemight need you to leap up .User Interface: {vocalsound} Okay .Project Manager: What are you , PowerPoint , or {disfmarker}User Interface: Um I have some PowerPoint , yeah .Industrial Designer: Right .ProjectManager: Okay .User Interface: Oh . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Do you think these pens can give you cancer of the hand ?User Interface: 'Kay .Project Manager: Some sort of radiation?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: No it's got its little camera in there , {vocalsound} plug it in {gap} .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: Yeah , it should should do it . Yeah.Marketing: 'S aProject Manager: Right , interface concept .User Interface: Okay . Um to be honest actually , I mentioned some some of the things which which could fit on the on the {disfmarker} this talk um this time, I m I mentioned them already in the previous talk .Project Manager: That's fine .User Interface: So um yeah , this time um I might not have them on the slides but I {vocalsound} I can just mention them aw again.Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Okay . So um I thought um I would also include the definition of user interface um so it's the aspects of a of of a computer system or programme which can be seen uh bythe user um and and which {disfmarker} uh the mechanisms that the user uses to control its operation and input data . So this would p includes things like shape and size and buttons and um voice recognition as well ,and colour , and so on .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Um um the method I {vocalsound} employed this time was {vocalsound} a again having a look to related products and mainly on the internet andthen {vocalsound} um {vocalsound} analyse them uh from the point of view of user fen friendliness and {vocalsound} also um {vocalsound} whether their appearance was was pleasant . Um {vocalsound} and thenum {vocalsound} this uh this um {vocalsound} this can help us to decide which features we want to incorporate in our product .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: So some findings um {vocalsound} um . Soin in the case of many user interfaces , they're just so full of buttons that it's actually uh hard to find the ones you you really um want to use and um and it's just confusing , it takes y know time to learn . Um{vocalsound} okay , and I thought I would just quickly show some of them that I found . Okay , some of them are here .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Um {vocalsound} well the picture is not very clear, but as you can see , there are actu oi , oh oh oh , {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: sorry for that . 'S go back .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} That's nice one .User Interface: Ah , no ,please . Okay , so yeah , they're quite big and have many many buttons . Actually {vocalsound} of the {disfmarker} of all these I personally p prefer this one , because it's it's the smallest and and with with least{disfmarker} uh with the smallest number of buttons as well . And I would say even the appearance of some of them is kind of not so nice .Marketing: Ugly .Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: {vocalsound} Um okay. So let's carry on with this . Um {disfmarker} So uh um o other findings {disfmarker} um some new things um used , uh some of them were mentioned already by our Technical um Designer uh . {vocalsound} Ourown company has developed a new in user interface {disfmarker} uh wait , no this is not the one . Okay , there is a {disfmarker} {vocalsound} we can uh include voice recognition and um it allows {disfmarker} i it'spossible to record eighty different voice samples on it .Industrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Uh so uh this uh this one was already mentioned uh the L_C_ display .Project Manager: It's{disfmarker} yeah .User Interface: Um s another new development is a scroll button , which was also th also already mentioned . And uh our own manufacturing division ha has uh designed {vocalsound} a new um{vocalsound} {vocalsound} uh programmable speech uh {vocalsound} mm sorry uh speaker unit I guess it's {disfmarker} it should be .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Um and this means that um once uh uh itit it comes together with a voice recognition , but it's {disfmarker} once once the mm {vocalsound} um gadget uh recognises uh the voice of the speaker , there can be a um pre-programmed answer , for example ,you can pick up the remote control and say something to it like hello and it says some hello and your name or whatever .Project Manager: Uh-huh , hi {vocalsound} yeah .Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: So{vocalsound} I mean this is also one of the n dev new developments which we might consider if we wanted to include .Industrial Designer: Uh sorry , uh can you go back for a second ? Um {vocalsound} uh are yousure wha what this means , a spinning wheel with the L_C_ display ? Uh {vocalsound} oh yeah are thProject Manager: It's like the {disfmarker} like you said , no ? The scroll scroll wheel .Marketing: Yeah , you can't{disfmarker}User Interface: No no , the scroll button is a different thing . I I have a picture if you {vocalsound} {disfmarker} just a moment , I'll {vocalsound} I'll show you . I wasn't completely sure myself , but Ithink it's just like um {vocalsound} it's it's a wheel , it's like not separate buttons .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Oh okay , the iPod thing , yeah .User Interface: Look , this one here .Marketing: Oh , it's like the iPod.User Interface: But I'm I'm not really sure whether whether you can really turn it round ,Marketing: G yeah , no , you can .User Interface: it's like you press this or this or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Uh it's theiPod uh kind of uh {disfmarker}Marketing: It's like it's like where you {disfmarker} you know how you have your your mouse , and y you go round and i it's kind of like that and you spin roundProject Manager:{vocalsound} Uh-huh .Industrial Designer: Alright , right . Okay , okay .Marketing: and it {disfmarker} yeah . It is {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So instead of going down you just spin {disfmarker} yeah , yeah.Marketing: You just go roundProject Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: and it is a bit weird at first , but it's actually very like fast .Industrial Designer: Uh-huh .Marketing: I like the the wheels that click on the side youyou get 'em much slower ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: so it's quite good if you like searching quite a lot of stuff .Industrial Designer: Right .Marketing: Do you know , if you're lookin if you're th scrollingthrough the A_ to Z_ of your music and you're looking for something at T_ , then it's a lot faster than the wheel ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Uh-huh .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Marketing: butyou've got a lot less control over it .Industrial Designer: Right . So maybe I should include that here as well ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: L_C_D_s umplus spinning .User Interface: {vocalsound} Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Okay , and the personal preferences are pretty much the same as as as last time .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .UserInterface: It {vocalsound} it has to be small , simple . Okay , we decided to include voice recognition , so to have the standard uh major buttons like on , off , um ch the channels and and then um volume and then therest would be a menu on the screen . Um and I I also thought uh {vocalsound} if we want to keep it small and nice um and actually I I quite like the idea of a scroll a scrolling button , I thought it could be for for voicelike , I dunno , it mm like on a um i like it used to be on Walkmans or something . There is {vocalsound} uh I think there is no reason why we couldn't use something like this for for the remote control .IndustrialDesigner: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: So yeah , that's uh that's it .Project Manager: Excellent . Okay , straight to trends , and then we can discuss it all at once .Industrial Designer: Right.Marketing: Okay , I've put the copy of the presentation in um the {disfmarker}Project Manager: The project documents .Marketing: yeah .Project Manager: Excellent . If you two could both do that as well , in case weneed to refer to it .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Cool .Project Manager: Here it comes . Okay .Marketing: Fabulous . Okay , cool . Um so what I did was to search the internet to come up with market trendsand you know what users are gonna be wanting in the the near future .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Okay . Right . Now , the first aspect is apparently twice as important as the second aspect , which is twiceas important as the third a aspect . So , I mean the the easy to use thing is fairly low down on the {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Marketing: which I think given the target group iswhat you would expect , really .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Um , you know , people want something new , something technologically innovative and different , so the whole idea with the L_C_D_s and thespinning and the colours and the voice recognition is quite like , quite the thing to go for .Industrial Designer: Okay .Marketing: And um , yeah it wants to look fancy , fancy look and feel .Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: So um {vocalsound} uh maybe uh as you're discussing things , is it okay if we just uh keep highlighting things here ?Marketing: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah , yeah , sure . Yeah.Marketing: Yeah , yeah .Industrial Designer: Right . So mm uh so it {vocalsound}Project Manager: That's over on the interface ,Industrial Designer: {disfmarker} yeah ,Project Manager: if if you could put"}
{"doc_id":"doc_138","qid":"","text":"User Interface: .. .Project Manager: Okay . So , this is uh first meeting of this design project . Um and I um like to show you the agenda for the meeting , I don't know if it was sent round to all of you .User Interface:Mm , yeah .Project Manager: Maybe not . Anyway ,User Interface: I didn't receive it yet {vocalsound} .Project Manager: this is the the plan for today's meeting is um firstly just to introduce the project briefly , umalthough I'm sure you've actually got some of the information already . Then the main purpose is to {disfmarker} so that we get to know each other a little bit more .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Umthen we want to practice using some of the tools that we'll be using during the the course of the design project and the meetings , um specifically the whiteboard over there . Um then we need to go through the specificsof our project plan um and discuss {disfmarker} come up with some preliminary ideas about it . And then that's it . So we've got twenty five minutes to do that , that's until eleven twenty five .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound} {gap} so shProject Manager: S so any any questions ?Industrial Designer: {gap} {vocalsound} {gap} .Project Manager: Is i {gap} not at this point .User Interface: Not at this point .Project Manager: Sothis is our project . What we're aiming to do is to create a new remote control for a television . Um we want it to be something original , something trendy and also something user friendly , so it has to be quite intuitivethat people are able to use this product . The method that we're going to use to complete the project , that has three components as such . There's the functional design of the the remote control . We're going{disfmarker} the way we'll do that I think is to to work individually initially and then come together for meetings to to work on that . Um similarly with the conceptual design , we'll start off by working individually withour own expertise on our own laptops and then we'll bring what we've done together . Um and then the detailed design will come after that . We'll pull it all together .Industrial Designer: I'm a bit confused about uhwhat's the difference between the functional design and conceptual design ? Uh i is it just uh more detail , uh as I understand it ?Project Manager: I think it {disfmarker} th w we're talking the the functional design ismore your um area of things where you'll be {disfmarker} we want to look at what functions we need in the remote controlIndustrial Designer: Right .Project Manager: and what what specific things it it has todoIndustrial Designer: {gap}Project Manager: but the conceptual design is um perhaps bigger than that and includes the {disfmarker} how people are going to use it and and that kind of thing .Industrial Designer: Howhow it will be done . So whe where do we identify the components of our uh product ? Uh I think it's it's in the conceptual design phase that we identify the {disfmarker} it's in the conceptual design phase that weidentify the components of our product ?Project Manager: Um I think we'll we'll start that initially with the functional design already but thenIndustrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: {disfmarker} yeah . Okay , sothat's just a brief overview of the p the the project itself . Um what I'd like us to do now is simultaneously introduce ourselves and start using some of the tools that we're using for {vocalsound} for the project ,specifically the whiteboard .Industrial Designer: Hmm .Project Manager: So each person in turn , I'd like us to go up to the whiteboard , the pen's just underneath it there and draw your favourite animal and then telleveryone what the f your favourite characteristics of that animal are and while you're doing that tell us your name , what your role is and perhaps how your animal relates to the role that you're taking in this project .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Why are you looking at me ?User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Would you like to go first ? {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound} Do I have a choice ? {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay . Ooh ooh , things falling everywhere .Project Manager: Oh , yeah ,Marketing: Right , okay .Project Manager: p putthem in pockets .Marketing: Cool . Okay .Project Manager: You don't have to hurry , we've got plenty of time .Marketing: So , my name's Cat and I'm really not very good at this whole drawing malarkeyIndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: so um {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: It'sgot no eyes .Marketing: Oh , good point . Ah , the eyes always ruin it . Right . Okay , what do {gap} it's eyes like ? Okay , cool . Um this is a rabbit . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager:{vocalsound} I thought it might be a cat . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah well origi uh at first I thought it was going to be cat . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager:{vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah , I don't think it's furry enough , so we'll make it a fluffy rabbit .User Interface: Yeah now I now I understand now , yeah . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager:{vocalsound} Yeah I can see by the ears .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Okay , right , it's a fluffy rabbit , blue .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Rabbits don't come in blue but you know .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}Marketing: Um okay and I like it because it's small {vocalsound} and it's fluffy .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {gap}Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: And one day you'll be able to getical genetically modify them and they will come in pink .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}UserInterface: Ah . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay ?Industrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: Excellent , and what's your what's your role within the team ?Marketing: I am the um {disfmarker} I need mynotebook , mm ooh {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: top banana . Thank you . Okay , cool , I am the Marketing Expert {vocalsound} um so like I'm gonna be doing the {disfmarker}apparently according to the little guy in the computer that knows everything {disfmarker} the user g requirements specification of the functional design , um trend watching in the conceptual design and productevad-valuation in the detailed design {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm . Okay .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: um so yeah .Industrial Designer: 'Kay .Project Manager:And more about yourself , you're from ?Marketing: Um I'm from Leicester ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: um second year . Um what else do you want to know ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Ilike sports {vocalsound} um yeah , aerobics , kickboxing , spinningProject Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: um {vocalsound} and uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: But not with rabbits . {vocalsound}Marketing: notwith rabbits , no no .Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: And vets , I like vets as well .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} And yeah um and I like cocktails , especially pink ones .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound} Cool .Marketing: Okay ? Cool . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Excellent , to match the rabbit . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Okay . Um so my name is Maarika .Where's the pen ? Okay .Project Manager: There's a {disfmarker} an {disfmarker} if you have not enough room there's an eraser there and you can rub it off .User Interface: Yeah , well , or I can make it smaller .{vocalsound} Uh so um um I'm the Interface Designer in this project and my favourite animal , I m I mean I'm not so sure because I'm not so so very um {vocalsound} familiar with all kinds of animals , but I do likedogs .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Oh , sorry , maybe I should have {disfmarker} shouldn't have said it beforehand butIndustrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: mm {vocalsound} hmm .ProjectManager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Um well , there are different kinds of dogs , but okay um .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} That's not bad at all .Project Manager: Ah it looks like a dog .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yep .Marketing: Is a bit more impressive than my rabbit.User Interface: Okay .Marketing: I think it needs four legs if it's gonna walk though .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah , maybe it has some colourful patches , yeah .Marketing:{vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} {gap} the other legs are on the other side .User Interface: Um yeah and I do like dogs because they are good friends to people and they are loyal . Mm , well that'scompared to some other animals like cats . Um they're really much more fun because they are not so independent .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Um yeah maybe maybe the fact that they protect theirhome as well , yeah . Um what it has to do with with my role in the project is hard to say .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh I hope to be loyal to the projectIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound}User Interface: and not to n not to um let people doing similar projects know the details of our project or something , {vocalsound} yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: And wherewhere are you from ?User Interface: I'm from EstoniaProject Manager: Estonia .User Interface: uh , yep . Um so is there anything else you'd like to know ? Oh , right , my roles ,Industrial Designer: {gap} .UserInterface: um so um in the different um {vocalsound} stages of the design , so at first I will be responsible for um for {vocalsound} yeah , designing the technical functions of the um {vocalsound} um of the remotecontrol uh then in the in the conceptual design stage I need to um come up with uh interface concept and then in the last um stage I will be responsible for the int infa for the user interface design .Industrial Designer:{gap} .User Interface: {vocalsound} Okay , that's it . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Thank you . Okay {vocalsound} um {vocalsound} I'll do some {disfmarker} I'll rub the featuresProject Manager:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and let the drawing stay . {vocalsound} 'Kay um my name is Gaurav . Um {vocalsound} my favourite animal {disfmarker} one of my favourite animals is a cow . I've got no idea howto draw a cow .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Good luck .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh this is going to be {disfmarker}Marketing: They're not just like abig round body and then some really skinny legsIndustrial Designer: Yeah , that'll do .Marketing: and then just some horns .Industrial Designer: Okay , so let let me draw the body first .Marketing: {vocalsound}ProjectManager: Mm .Industrial Designer: Big , round body , really skinny legs {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and they've got a long tailMarketing:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and a long face . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} It's eating .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: It looks like Eeyore .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: And there is some grass there .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} So this is what I like about{vocalsound} cows {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Horns ,Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: that they just keeps sitting there eating grass ,Marketing: draw somehorns . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: they do not disturb anybody umMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: they're kind of Buddhist in a way . {vocalsound}Project Manager:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So yeah , I like cows . {vocalsound} Um {vocalsound} my my role in the project is um uh the industrial designer , so I'm supposed to design all the details of of the product um ho howit works and whatever it'll mm take during the functional role , what are the various functions that have to be performed by it uh during the um conceptual design , what are the various components of it and um finally ,I'm not too sure what was the last part . Um the detailed design , I I guess it will again be the identification of the components and how they integrate with each other . Um I'm from India . Uh I'm doing my P_H_D_ inPsycholinguistics , I sit at the Department of Psychology . {vocalsound} Yeah . Thank you .Project Manager: Excellent .User Interface: {vocalsound} Thanks .Project Manager: Right , now now it's my turn obviously .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: That doesn't look like a cow , does it ? {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay , here's a space .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} It looks very very cute .ProjectManager: Yeah , I like the cow .Industrial Designer: {gap}Project Manager: I'm Jen .User Interface: Yeah . Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Um I like dogs too , but I can't do that already because I can't draw a dog as wellas you can .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I like {disfmarker} Mm .Marketing: Is that a lizard ?Industrial Designer: No way . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Hmm .UserInterface: Wow .Project Manager: It's a gecko .Industrial Designer: Ah okay .User Interface: Ah , a gecko , okay .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Is there a difference ?User Interface: Is {disfmarker} a ar are theyalso like lizards or are they {disfmarker}Project Manager: They're {disfmarker} Yeah , they're l it's a kind of lizard .User Interface: yeah , they areProject Manager: And I I like geckosUser Interface: {disfmarker}mm-hmm .Project Manager: because they remind me of warm places {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Uh-huh .Project Manager: and , and where I was living in Cambodia they used to live in my houseUser Interface:Ah . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: and they were on the ceiling and they would make little gecko noises in the evening .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}UserInterface: I hope you don't like snakes , do you ?Project Manager: I don't like snakes . I come from AustraliaUser Interface: Okay . {vocalsound}Project Manager: and we have nasty snakes . That's where I'm from ,Australia .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: I'm from Melbourne and I'm your Project Manager for todayIndustrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: and my role is basically to keep things going and make surethat you all work together in a productive way , so that by the end of the day we come up with a great product .User Interface: Wonderful .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay .Industrial Designer: Thank you .ProjectManager: {vocalsound} So , let's see what's next in the PowerPoint presentation . So , I've just thought {disfmarker}Marketing: If you right click on it you can {disfmarker}Project Manager: yeah I've just thoughtabout this that we could even put it much more professionally {vocalsound} as {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: there we go . Okay ,so this is the um overall budget for our project . We've got {disfmarker} um we're planning to sell these remote controls for {disfmarker} let's make that go away , that means we've got five minutes . Um we'replanning to sell the remote controls for twenty five Euros each . Um and with that we're aiming for a profit of fifty million Euros . And that's selling them on the international market , not just in the U_K_ . Um so to dothat our finance people estimate that we need production costs of maximum twelve and a half Euro so that we can reach that profit target . So that's something to keep in mind while you're designing . Okay . Hmm .This is {disfmarker} let me just skip ahead to see {disfmarker} that's the last thing , okay . We've only got a couple of minutes . Does anyone have any first ideas to bounce around about um what we're thinking of thisremote control ?User Interface: Yep . I'm just wondering whether whether there is like any special feature that we want to have {disfmarker} w want this remote control have as opposed to the already existing ones.Project Manager: Mm-hmm . I think that's probably something that w it's best if we take away with us ,Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: but if we all have a think , when we go away from the meeting ,what specific things could be um included in this remote control that that {vocalsound} are out of the ordinary .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I think uh i in the beginning uh one thing was {disfmarker} that wasmentioned was that it should be mm trendy , user friendly and original so um I think your point is relevant as far as the originality is concerned , that we should provide some features that are quite unique to this.Project Manager: Something something new .Marketing: Yeah , I was looking at the website ,Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: and the other things that they've made and I like put down some like inspirationalwords like that I got from looking at the pictures . So the motto is um we put the fashion in electronicsProject Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: and um so it's something that is sleek and stylish but it's still functional ,you know ?Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: So I'm kind of thinking , you know like those phones that they have , the new generation ones , where they don't actually have any buttons on them and stuff like that.Industrial Designer: Alright .Project Manager: Uh-huh .Marketing: You know , so something heading towards that , so it's not overly {disfmarker} I mean I don't know what h most of the buttons do on my remotecontrols , so I figure how many do you need , you know ?Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: So perhaps some sort of menu-based thing , or {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}Marketing: Something that's a little less crowded than this , like I mean you know , theoretically you can do all kinds of things with your T_V_ , right ?Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Butwhat do most people do ?Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: They turn it on , they watch certain specified channels , you know , and then they turn it off again .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} There is a lot of functionality in there that is not used ninety percent of the time ,Marketing: Sometimes they play a movie .Industrial Designer: but will be used ten percent ofthe time , yeah .Marketing: Yeah , soProject Manager: Yeah .Marketing: there's no need to have buttons on it to do that ,Project Manager: So , no .Marketing: maybe to do {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yep .ProjectManager: It could be one button for a menu or something , if you really need to go and do that .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: And then use the {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: So , if you'rethe kind of sad case that knows how your remote control works , then you know that's fineProject Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: and you can do it on the screen rather than everybody elsehaving to have those buttons , which just confuse them . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Hmm .Project Manager: Excellent .Marketing: 'Cause like if you look at the train , it's just very like , there'sno extra bits on it , the train on the website and I dunno if you can put it up on the thingProject Manager: Oh I haven't had a look yet , yep .Marketing: um but it is just like a long like thing used for mu moving people ,but it looks really pretty too .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: {gap}Project Manager: Great . Any other immediate thoughts before we move along ?Industrial Designer: Mm . {vocalsound} Uh we canaim for {disfmarker} I mean we can think about all these little things , but we can aim for something wi that gives a high battery life , although I don't think that um it's a huge problem for remote controls anyway ,battery life ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: uh every now and then you need to replace the batteries . Um {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Hmm .User Interface: Yeah but uh Imean e even though it has to be re original we shouldn't uh go like too far away from from the usual ones , because otherwise the new users will just have a lot of problemsIndustrial Designer: Yeah . A big learning"}
{"doc_id":"doc_139","qid":"","text":"PhD F: OK .Professor B: Uh . Somebody else should run this . I 'm sick of being the one to sort of go through and say , \" Well , what do you think about this ? \" You wanna {disfmarker} ?PhD D: Yeah .PhD F: Should wetake turns ? You want me to run it today ?Professor B: Yeah . Why don't you run it today ? OK .PhD F: OK . OK . Um . Let 's see , maybe we should just get a list of items {disfmarker} things that we should talk about .Um , I guess there 's the usual {pause} updates , everybody going around and saying , uh , you know , what they 're working on , the things that happened the last week . But aside from that is there anything inparticular that anybody wants to bring upPhD D: Mmm .PhD F: for today ? No ? OK . So why don't we just around and people can give updates .PhD E: Oh .PhD F: Uh , do you want to start , Stephane ?PhD C: Alright .Um . Well , the first thing maybe is that the p Eurospeech paper is , uh , accepted . Um . Yeah .PhD F: This is {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what do you , uh {disfmarker} what 's in the paper there ?PhD C: So it 'sthe paper that describe basically the , um , system that were proposed for the {pause} Aurora .PhD F: The one that we s we submitted the last round ?PhD C: Right , yeah .PhD D: Yeah .PhD F: Uh - huh .PhD C: Um{disfmarker} Yeah . So and the , fff {comment} comments seems {disfmarker} from the reviewer are good . So .PhD F: Hmm .PhD C: Mmm {disfmarker} Yeah .PhD F: Where {disfmarker} where 's it gonna be thisyear ?PhD C: It 's , uh , Aalborg in Denmark . And it 's ,PhD F: Oh , OK .PhD C: yeah , September .PhD F: Mmm .PhD C: Mmm {disfmarker} Yeah . Then , uh , whhh well , I 've been working on {disfmarker} on t mainlyon on - line normalization this week . Uh , I 've been trying different {disfmarker} slightly {disfmarker} slightly different approaches . Um , the first thing is trying to play a little bit again with the , um , time constant .Uh , second thing is , uh , the training of , uh , on - line normalization with two different means , one mean for the silence and one for the speech . Um , and so I have two recursions which are controlled by the , um ,probability of the voice activity detector . Mmm . This actually don't s doesn't seem to help , although it doesn't hurt . So . But {disfmarker} well , both {pause} on - line normalization approach seems equivalent . Well ,they {disfmarker}PhD F: Are the means pretty different {pause} for the two ?PhD C: Yeah . They can be very different . Yeah . Mm - hmm .PhD F: Hmm .Professor B: So do you maybe make errors in different places ?Different kinds of errors ?PhD C: I didn't look , uh , more closely . Um . It might be , yeah . Mm - hmm . Um . Well , eh , there is one thing that we can observe , is that the mean are more different for {disfmarker} forC - zero and C - one than for the other coefficients . And {disfmarker} Yeah . And {disfmarker} Yeah , it {disfmarker} the C - one is {disfmarker} There are strange {disfmarker} strange thing happening with C - one ,is that when you have different kind of noises , the mean for the {disfmarker} the silence portion is {disfmarker} can be different . And {disfmarker}PhD F: Hmm .PhD C: So when you look at the trajectory of C - one ,it 's {disfmarker} has a strange shape and I was expecting th the s that these two mean helps , especially because of the {disfmarker} the strange C - ze C - one shape , uh , which can {disfmarker} like , yo you canhave , um , a trajectory for the speech and then when you are in the silence it goes somewhere , but if the noise is different it goes somewhere else .PhD F: Oh .PhD C: So which would mean that if we estimate themean based on all the signal , even though we have frame dropping , but we don't frame ev uh , drop everything , but {disfmarker} uh , this can {disfmarker} hurts the estimation of the mean for speech , and{disfmarker} Mmm . {comment} But I still have to investigate further , I think . Um , a third thing is , um , {vocalsound} that instead of t having a fixed time constant , I try to have a time constant that 's smaller atthe beginning of the utterances to adapt more quickly to the r something that 's closer to the right mean . T t um {disfmarker} Yeah . And then this time constant increases and I have a threshold that{disfmarker}Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD C: well , if it 's higher than a certain threshold , I keep it to this threshold to still , uh , adapt , um , the mean when {disfmarker} {vocalsound} if the utterance is , uh , longenough to {disfmarker} to continue to adapt after , like , one secondProfessor B: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .PhD C: or {disfmarker} Mmm . Uh , well , this doesn't help neither , but this doesn't hurt . So , well . It seemspretty {disfmarker}PhD F: Wasn't there some experiment you were gonna try where you did something differently for each , um , {vocalsound} uh {disfmarker} I don't know whether it was each mel band or each , uh, um , FFT bin or someth There was something you were gonna {disfmarker} uh , {comment} some parameter you were gonna vary depending on the frequency . I don't know if that was {disfmarker}PhD C: I guess itwas {disfmarker} I don't know . No . u Maybe it 's this {disfmarker} this idea of having different {pause} on - line normalization , um , tunings for the different MFCC 's .PhD F: For each , uh {disfmarker}Professor B:Mm - hmm .PhD C: But {disfmarker} Mm - hmm .PhD F: Yeah . I {disfmarker} I thought , Morgan , you brought it up a couple meetings ago . And then it was something about , uh , some and then somebody said \"yeah , it does seem like , you know , C - zero is the one that 's , you know , the major one \" or , uh , s I can't remember exactly what it was now .PhD C: Mmm . Yeah . There {disfmarker} uh , actually , yeah . S um , it's very important to normalize C - zero and {pause} much less to normalize the other coefficients . And , um , actu uh , well , at least with the current on - line normalization scheme . And we {disfmarker} I think , we{vocalsound} kind of know that normalizing C - one doesn't help with the current scheme . And {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} Yeah . In my idea , I {disfmarker} I was thinking that the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker}the reason is maybe because of these funny things that happen between speech and silence which have different means . Um {disfmarker} Yeah . But maybe it 's not so {disfmarker} {vocalsound} so easy to{disfmarker}Professor B: Um , I I really would like to suggest looking , um , a little bit at the kinds of errors . I know you can get lost in that and go forever and not see too much , but {disfmarker} {vocalsound}sometimes ,PhD C: Mm - hmm .Professor B: but {disfmarker} but , um , just seeing that each of these things didn't make things better may not be enough . It may be that they 're making them better in some waysand worse in others ,PhD C: Yeah . Mm - hmm .Professor B: or increasing insertions and decreasing deletions , or {disfmarker} or , um , um , you know , helping with noisy case but hurting in quiet case . And if yousaw that then maybe you {disfmarker} it would {disfmarker} {vocalsound} something would occur to you of how to deal with that .PhD C: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .PhD D: Hmm .PhD C: Alright . Mmm . Yeah . W um ,So that 's it , I think , for the on - line normalization . Um {disfmarker} Yeah . I 've been playing a little bit with some kind of thresholding , and , mmm , as a first experiment , I think I Yeah . Well , what I did is t is totake , um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} to measure the average {disfmarker} no , the maximum energy of s each utterance and then put a threshold {disfmarker} Well , this for each mel band . Then put a threshold that's fifteen DB below {disfmarker} well , uh , a couple of DB below this maximum ,Professor B: Mm - hmm . Mmm .PhD C: and {disfmarker} Actually it was not a threshold , it was just adding noise .Professor B: Mm -hmm .PhD C: So I was adding a white noise energy , uh , that 's fifteen DB below the maximum energy of the utterance . And {disfmarker} Yeah . When we look at {disfmarker} at the , um , MFCC that result from this, they are {pause} a lot more smoother . Um , when we compare , like , a channel zero and channel one utterance {disfmarker} um , so a clean and , uh , the same noisy utterance {disfmarker} well , there is almostno difference between the cepstral coefficients of the two .PhD F: Hmm .PhD C: Um . And {disfmarker} Yeah . And the result that we have in term of speech recognition , actually it 's not {disfmarker} it 's not worse , it's not better neither , but it 's , um , kind of surprising that it 's not worsePhD F: Hmm .PhD C: because basically you add noise that 's fifteen DB {disfmarker} just fifteen DB below {pause} the maximum energy .GradA: Sorry .PhD C: And at least {disfmarker}PhD F: So why does that m {pause} smooth things out ? I don't {disfmarker} I don't understand that .Professor B: Well , there 's less difference . Right ?PhD C: It 's{disfmarker} I think , it 's whitening {disfmarker} This {disfmarker} the portion that are more silent ,Professor B: Cuz it 's {disfmarker}PhD C: as you add a white noise that are {disfmarker} has a very high energy , itwhitens everythingPhD F: Huh . Oh , OK .PhD C: and {disfmarker} and the high - energy portion of the speech don't get much affected anyway by the other noise . And as the noise you add is the same is {disfmarker}{pause} the shape , it 's also the same .PhD F: Hmm .Professor B: Yeah .PhD C: So they have {disfmarker} the trajectory are very , very similar . And {disfmarker} and {disfmarker}Professor B: So , I mean , again , ifyou trained in one kind of noise and tested in the same kind of noise , you 'd {disfmarker} you know , given enough training data you don't do b do badly . The reason that we d that we have the problems we have isbecause {pause} it 's different in training and test . Even if {vocalsound} the general kind is the same , the exact instances are different . And {disfmarker} andPhD F: Mm - hmm .Professor B: so when you whiten it ,then it 's like you {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the only noise {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to first order , the only th noise that you have is white noise and you 've added the same thing to training and test .PhD F:Mm - hmm .Professor B: So it 's ,PhD F: Hmm .Professor B: uh {disfmarker}PhD F: So would that {pause} be similar to , like , doing the smoothing , then , over time or {disfmarker} ?PhD C: Mm - hmm .Professor B:Well , it 's a kind of smoothing ,PhD C: I think it 's {disfmarker} I think it 's different .Professor B: but {disfmarker}PhD C: It 's {disfmarker} it 's something that {disfmarker} yeah , that affects more or less the silenceportions because {disfmarker}PhD F: Mm - hmm .PhD C: Well , anyway , the sp the portion of speech that ha have high energy are not ch a lot affected by the noises in the Aurora database .Professor B: Mm - hmm.PhD C: If {disfmarker} if you compare th the two shut channels of SpeechDat - Car during speech portion , it 's n n n the MFCC are not very different . They are very different when energy 's lower , like duringfricatives or during speech pauses . And ,Professor B: Yeah , but you 're still getting more recognition errors ,PhD C: uh {disfmarker}Professor B: which means {vocalsound} that the differences , even though they looklike they 're not so big , {vocalsound} are {disfmarker} are hurting your recognition .PhD C: YeProfessor B: Right ?PhD C: Yeah . So it distort {vocalsound} the speech . Right .Professor B: Yeah .PhD C: Um .PhD F: Soperformance went down ?PhD C: No . It didn't . But {disfmarker}PhD F: Oh .PhD C: Yeah . So , but in this case I {disfmarker} I really expect that maybe the {disfmarker} the two {disfmarker} these two stream offeatures , they are very different . I mean , and maybe we could gain something by combining themProfessor B: Well , the other thing is that you just picked one particular way of doing it .PhD C: or{disfmarker}Professor B: Uh , I mean , first place it 's fifteen DB , uh , {vocalsound} down across the utterance . And {vocalsound} maybe you 'd want to have something that was a little more adaptive . Secondly , youhappened to pick fifteen DBPhD C: Mmm .Professor B: and maybe twenty 'd be better ,PhD C: Yeah .Professor B: or {disfmarker} or twelve .PhD C: Yeah . Right .PhD F: So what was the {disfmarker} what was thethreshold part of it ? Was the threshold , uh , how far down {disfmarker} ?Professor B: Yeah . Well , he {disfmarker} yeah , he had to figure out how much to add . So he was looking {disfmarker} he was looking at thepeak value .PhD F: Uh - huh .Professor B: Right ? And then {disfmarker}PhD C: Uh - huh .PhD F: And {disfmarker} and so what 's {disfmarker} ho I don't understand . How does it go ? If it {disfmarker} if{disfmarker} if the peak value 's above some threshold , then you add the noise ? Or if it 's below sPhD C: I systematically {comment} add the noise , but the , um , noise level is just {pause} some kind of thresholdbelow the peak .PhD F: Oh , oh . I see .PhD C: Mmm .PhD F: I see .Professor B: Yeah .PhD C: Um . Yeah . Which is not really noise , actually . It 's just adding a constant to each of the mel , uh , energy .PhD F: Mm -hmm .PhD C: To each of the {pause} mel filter bank . Yeah .PhD F: I see .PhD C: So , yeah , it 's really , uh , white noise . I thProfessor B: Yeah .PhD F: Mm - hmm .Professor B: So then afterwards a log is taken , andthat 's so sort of why the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the little variation tends to go away .PhD C: Mm - hmm . Um . Yeah . So may Well , the {disfmarker} this threshold is still a factor that we have to look at . And Idon't know , maybe a constant noise addition would {disfmarker} {vocalsound} would be fine also , or {disfmarker} Um {disfmarker}Professor B: Or {disfmarker} or not constant but {disfmarker} but , uh , varyingover time {pause} in fact is another way {pause} to go .PhD C: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .Professor B: Um .PhD C: Yeah . Um {disfmarker}Professor B: Were you using the {disfmarker} the normalization in addition tothis ? I mean , what was the rest of the system ?PhD C: Um {disfmarker} Yeah . It was {disfmarker} it was , uh , the same system . Mm - hmm .Professor B: OK .PhD C: It was the same system . Mmm . Oh , yeah . Athird thing is that , um , {vocalsound} I play a little bit with the , um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} finding what was different between , um , And there were a couple of differences , like the LDA filters were not the same. Um , he had the France Telecom blind equalization in the system . Um , the number o of MFCC that was {disfmarker} were used was different . You used thirteen and we used fifteen . Well , a bunch of differences .And , um , actually the result that he {disfmarker} he got were much better on TI - digits especially . So I 'm kind of investigated to see what was the main factor for this difference . And it seems that the LDA filter is{disfmarker} is {disfmarker} was hurting . Um , {vocalsound} so when we put s some noise compensation the , um , LDA filter that {disfmarker} that 's derived from noisy speech is not more {disfmarker} anymoreoptimal . And it makes a big difference , um , {vocalsound} on TI - digits trained on clean . Uh , if we use the {disfmarker} the old LDA filter , I mean the LDA filter that was in the proposal , we have , like , eighty - twopoint seven percent recognition rate , um , on noisy speech when the system is trained on clean speech . But {disfmarker} and when we use the filter that 's derived from clean speech we jumped {disfmarker} so fromeighty - two point seven to eighty - five point one , which is a huge leap .Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD C: Um . Yeah . So now the results are more similar , and I don't {disfmarker} I will not , I think , investigate on theother differences , which is like the number of MFCC that we keep and other small things that we can I think optimize later on anyway .Professor B: Sure . But on the other hand if everybody is trying different kinds ofnoise suppression things and so forth , it might be good to standardize on the piece {vocalsound} that we 're not changing . Right ? So if there 's any particular reason to ha pick one or the other , I mean {disfmarker}Which {disfmarker} which one is closer to what the proposal was that was submitted to Aurora ? Are they {disfmarker} they both {disfmarker} ? Well , I mean {disfmarker}PhD C: I think {disfmarker} Yeah . I think thth uh , the new system that I tested is , I guess , closer because it doesn't have {disfmarker} it have less of {disfmarker} of France Telecom stuff ,PhD D: You mean the {disfmarker}PhD C: I {disfmarker}PhD D: The{disfmarker} whatever you , uh , tested with recently . Right ?PhD C: Mmm ? Yeah .PhD D: Yeah ?Professor B: Well , no , I {disfmarker} I 'm {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} Yeah , you 're trying to add in France Telecom.PhD C: But , we {disfmarker}Professor B: Tell them about the rest of it . Like you said the number of filters might be {vocalsound} different or something . Right ? Or {disfmarker}PhD D: The number of cepstralcoefficients is what ?Professor B: CepPhD C: Mm - hmm .Professor B: Yeah . So , I mean , I think we 'd wanna standardize there , wouldn't we ?PhD C: Yeah , yeah .Professor B: So , sh you guys should picksomethingPhD D: Yeah .Professor B: and {disfmarker} Well , all th all three of you .PhD D: Yeah .PhD C: I think we were gonna work with {disfmarker} with this or this new system , or with {disfmarker}PhD D: Uh , sothe {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} right now , the {disfmarker} the system that is there in the {disfmarker} what we have in the repositories , with {disfmarker} uses fifteen .PhD C: So {disfmarker} Right . Yeah .PhDD: Yeah , so {disfmarker} Yeah , so {disfmarker} Yep .PhD C: But we will use the {disfmarker} the LDA filters f derived from clean speech . Well , yeah , actually it 's {disfmarker} it 's not the {disfmarker} the LDAfilter .PhD D: Yeah , yeah . So {disfmarker}PhD C: It 's something that 's also short enough in {disfmarker} in latency .PhD D: Yeah . Well .PhD C: So .PhD D: Yeah . So , we haven't {disfmarker} w we have beenalways using , uh , fifteen coefficients ,PhD C: Yeah .PhD D: not thirteen ?PhD C: Mm - hmm .PhD D: Yeah . Well , uh , that 's {disfmarker} something 's {disfmarker} Um . Yeah . Then {disfmarker}Professor B: I thinkas long as you guys agree on it , it doesn't matter .PhD D: mmm {disfmarker}Professor B: I think we have a maximum of sixty , {vocalsound} uh , features that we 're allowed . So .PhD C: Yeah .PhD D: Yeah . Ma -maybe we can {disfmarker} I mean , at least , um , I 'll t s run some experiments to see whether {disfmarker} once I have this {vocalsound} {comment} noise compensation to see whether thirteen and fifteen reallymatters or not .PhD C: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .PhD D: Never tested it with the compensation , but without , {vocalsound} uh , compensation it was like fifteen was s slightly better than thirteen ,PhD C: Yeah .PhD D:so that 's why we stuck to thirteen .PhD C: Yeah . And there is {disfmarker} there is also this log energy versus C - zero .PhD D: Sorry , fifteen . Yeah , the log energy versus C - zero .PhD C: Well . W w if {disfmarker}if {disfmarker}PhD D: Uh , that 's {disfmarker} that 's the other thing . I mean , without noise compensation certainly C - zero is better than log energy . Be - I mean , because the {disfmarker} there are more , uh ,mismatched conditions than the matching conditions for testing .PhD C: Mm - hmm .PhD D: You know , always for the matched condition , you always get a {pause} slightly better performance for log energy than C -zero .PhD C: Mm - hmm .PhD D: But not for {disfmarker} I mean , for matched and the clean condition both , you get log energy {disfmarker} I mean you get a better performance with log energy .PhD C: Mm - hmm.PhD D: Well , um , maybe once we have this noise compensation , I don't know , we have to try that also , whether we want to go for C - zero or log energy .PhD C: Mm - hmm .PhD D: We can see that .PhD C: Yeah.PhD D: Hmm .PhD C: Mmm .PhD F: So do you have {pause} more , Stephane , or {disfmarker} ?PhD C: Uh , that 's it , I think . Mmm .PhD F: Do you have anything , Morgan , or {disfmarker} ?Professor B: Uh , no . I'm just , you know , being a manager this week . So .PhD F: How about you , Barry ?Grad A: Um , {vocalsound} still working on my {disfmarker} my quals preparation stuff . Um , {vocalsound} so I 'm {disfmarker} I'm thinking about , um , starting some , {vocalsound} uh , cheating experiments to , uh , determine the , um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the relative effectiveness of , um , some intermediate categories that I want toclassify . So , for example , um , {vocalsound} if I know where voicing occurs and everything , um , {vocalsound} I would do a phone {disfmarker} um , phone recognition experiment , um , somehow putting in the{disfmarker} the , uh {disfmarker} the perfect knowledge that I have about voicing . So , um , in particular I was thinking , {vocalsound} um , in {disfmarker} in the hybrid framework , just taking those LNA files ,"}
{"doc_id":"doc_140","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: All hooked up . {vocalsound} Okay , so now we are here at the functional design meeting . Um {vocalsound} hopefully this meeting I'll be doing a little bit less talking than I did last time 'cause this iswhen you get to show us what you've been doing individually . The agenda for the meeting , I put it in the sh shared documents folder . I don't know if that meant that you could see it or not .User Interface:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Did anyone ?Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: No .Project Manager: No . Oh well . Um I'll try and do that for the next meeting as well so if you check in there , there's a sharedproject documents folder . Um and it should be in there .User Interface: Mm . Um um wi on on a what ? Oh project project documents , yeah , yeah , yeah , okay .Project Manager: Project documents , yeah . So I'll putit in there .User Interface: Oh okay , yeah .Project Manager: Is it best if I send you an email maybe , to let you know it's there ?User Interface: Yes , I think so .Project Manager: Yep . I'll do that next time . Um{vocalsound} I'll act as secretary for this meeting and just take minutes as we go through , and then I'll send them to you after the meeting . The main the main focus of this meeting is your presentations that you'vebeen preparing during the time , so we'll go through each of you one by one . Um then we need to briefly discuss the new project requirements that were sent to us . I just sentUser Interface: Yeah , the last minute ,yeah ,Project Manager: at the last minute , I'm sorry about that ,User Interface: yeah .Project Manager: but we can see how that affects what you were you were doing .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Um andthen we need to , by the end of the meeting come to some kind of decision on who our target group's going to be and what the functions of the remote control {disfmarker} that's the the main goal is to come up withthose two things , target group and functions of the remote control . And we've got forty minutes to do that in . So I would say {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: You said uh targ target groups ,Project Manager: yeah?Industrial Designer: what does that mean ?Project Manager: As uh who it is that we're going to be trying to sell this thing to ,User Interface: {vocalsound} Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Uh okay , 'kay .ProjectManager: yeah .Industrial Designer: So are {disfmarker}Project Manager: So we need to {disfmarker} yeah , we need to have a fairly defined group that that we want to focus onIndustrial Designer: Okay .ProjectManager: and then look at the functions um of the dem remote control itself . So with that I think it's best if I hand over to you . Does anyone have a preference for going first ?Industrial Designer: Alright .{vocalsound} I can go first ,Project Manager: You wanna go first ?Industrial Designer: yeah .User Interface: Okay . Hmm .Project Manager: Okay , so we need to unplug my laptop and plug in yours .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I assume we just pull it out ?User Interface: Mm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Right . Um {vocalsound} so f from the {disfmarker}Project Manager: Justbefore you start , to make it easier , would you three mind emailing me your presentations ? Once we {disfmarker} you don't have to do it now but when {disfmarker} once you go back ,User Interface: Okay , yeah ,afterwards , yeah , okay .Industrial Designer: Right sure .Project Manager: just so that I don't have to scribble everything down .Industrial Designer: Uh okay . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} So n uh with uh with regardto the {vocalsound} uh working design of this uh uh remote control uh I've identified um {vocalsound} a few basic uh components of the remote and uh {vocalsound} se uh from the design , functional designperspective um w I c we can now uh know wha what exactly the components are and how how they work together with each other . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} So {vocalsound} {vocalsound} this is the method thatuh I'll mostly be following in my um {vocalsound} in my uh role . Um the identification of the components , uh and uh since since I'm dealing only with the technical aspects , I would need feedback from the marketingperson uh and {vocalsound} uh from the user interface person . Uh we'll then integrate this into the product design at a technical levelProject Manager: Hmm .Industrial Designer: and uh basically update and come upwith a new design , so it's a cyclical process . {vocalsound} Okay , so {vocalsound} these were the basic findings from today . The last three bullets have been integrated from uh the last minute uh email . Uh I justquickly jotted them down . Um {vocalsound} so basically uh the {disfmarker} as I told you the identification of how the remote control works and what are the various parts to it uh and what are the different processesum {vocalsound} and how the parts uh communicate with each other . Um {vocalsound} okay , so e the mee email said that teletext is now outdated , so we need to do away with that functionality of the remotecontrol . Um also uh the remote control should be used only for television , because incorporating other features um makes it more comp complex . And the reason why teletext is outdated because uh of internet and uhthe availability of internet over television . How however , our our remote control would only be dealing uh with the {vocalsound} the use for television , {vocalsound} in order to keep things simple . Um {vocalsound}also the management wants that um our design should be unique uh it {disfmarker} so {vocalsound} it should incorporate um colour and the slogan uh that our company um has it as its standard . {vocalsound} Okay ,so he he here is a functional overview of the remote control . Um {vocalsound} there's basically an energy source at the heart uh which feeds into the chip and the user interface . The user interf interface communicateswith the chip , so {vocalsound} I'll basic go over to the {disfmarker} Okay . {vocalsound} So {vocalsound} if uh if this is our energy source and this is a cell , uh it communicates {disfmarker} uh it feeds energy intothe into the chip , which basically finds out h uh how how to do everything . There is a user interface here . {vocalsound} So whe when the user presses a button , it feeds into the chip and the chip then generates aresponse and takes the response to an infrared terminal , um which then {disfmarker} so the output of the chip is an infrared bit code , which is then communicated {vocalsound} to the remote site , which h has aninfrared receiver . Um the there can be uh a bulb here or something to indicate whether the remote is on or communicating . Um so these are the essent so a all the functionality of the remote control , whatever newfunctions that we need to do , um make the chip more complicated uh and bigger , basically .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay . {vocalsound} Um so {vocalsound} i in my personalpreferences um {vocalsound} I'm hoping that we can ke keep the design as simple and clear as possible . This would uh help us uh to upgrade our technology at a future point of time . And uh also if we can incorporateuh the latest features in our chip design , so that our um {vocalsound} uh remote control does not become outdated soon and it's compatible with mot most uh televisions . {vocalsound} That's about it . {vocalsound}So anything that you would like to know or {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: {vocalsound} Thanks .Project Manager: Do you have any um i idea about costs at this point ?IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound} No , I don't have any idea about what each component costs .Project Manager: {vocalsound} BrIndustrial Designer: Um yeah .Project Manager: Okay . 'Cause that's something to consider , Iguess , if we're if we're using more advanced technology , it might increase the price .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Certainly , yeah . So so tha yeah , {vocalsound} we definitely need to operate within our constraints,Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: but um {vocalsound} unfortunately I I do not have any data , so uh I just identified the functional components for that .Project Manager: That's fine . Are there any morequestions , or shall we just skip straight to the next one and then we can discuss all of them together at the end ?User Interface: {vocalsound} I think we need like some general discussion at the end probably.Industrial Designer: Yeah , okay .Project Manager: Yeah , I think that will do . Okay , so do you want to {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah . Yeah , I think since since we were discussing some um design issues then I II would like to continue {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yes , shall shall we pull this up ?User Interface: okay , yeah .Project Manager: I think that has to come out of there .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager:Yeah .Industrial Designer: Mm 'kay .User Interface: {vocalsound} Thanks .Project Manager: Yeah , I thought those last minute things , they're gonna hit you the worst . {vocalsound}User Interface: Oh i {vocalsound}Okay , I hope {disfmarker} wait . Should it just {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I it'll take some time .Project Manager: It ta takes a little {disfmarker} Oh , and have you {disfmarker}User Interface: There's justnothing .Project Manager: you need to then also press on yours , function F_ eight ,User Interface: Oh right , right , right , um {disfmarker}Project Manager: so the blue function key at the bottom and F_ eight .UserInterface: Okay . NothinIndustrial Designer: Oh , there it is , yeah .User Interface: okay , something is coming up .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Now it's coming ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} It'll come up , it{disfmarker} um uh no signal .Project Manager: computer no signal .User Interface: No signal ? Why ?Project Manager: Maybe again ?Industrial Designer: Yeah yeah , it says something now ,User Interface: Oh . My mycomputer went blank now .Industrial Designer: adjusting {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay , adjusting .User Interface: Adjusting . But {vocalsound} I don't see anythingIndustrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager:There we go , there we go .User Interface: I don't see anything on my computer now .Industrial Designer: Oh , that's strange .Project Manager: Oh , if you press if you press function and that againUser Interface: Thisis the problem , but {disfmarker}Project Manager: there's there's usually three modes , one where it's only here , one where it's only there , and one where it's both .Industrial Designer: Okay .User Interface: Um{gap} .Industrial Designer: And one more time .Project Manager: Okay , so one more time .User Interface: Uh now it's {disfmarker} okay . No ? No .Industrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: Should {disfmarker}yeah just wait for a moment , adjusting .User Interface: Oh okay .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay .User Interface: Okay , that's fine , that's good . Okay , let's start from the beginning . So I'm going to speakabout technical functions design uh just like some {vocalsound} some first issues that came up . Um 'kay , so the method I was um adopting at this point , it's not um for the for the whole um period of the um{vocalsound} all the project but it's just at th at this very moment .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Um uh my method was um to look at um other {vocalsound} um remote controls , uh so mostly just bysearching on the web and to see what um functionality they used . And then um after having got this inspiration and having compared what I found on the web um just to think about what the de what the user reallyneeds and what um what the user might desire as additional uh functionalities . {vocalsound} And yeah , and then just to um {vocalsound} put the main function of the remote control in in words .Project Manager:Mm-hmm .User Interface: Um so the findings uh were {vocalsound} um that the main function of the remote control is is just sending messages to the television set , so this quite straightforward . And uh w some ofthe main functions would be switching on , switching off , uh then the user would like to switch the channel um for example just m changing to the next channel to to flip through all all of the possible channels , or thenmm {vocalsound} uh the other possibility would be that um she might just want to choose one particular channel , so we would need the numbers . And and also the volume is very important . Um {vocalsound} um{vocalsound} I alsIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Sorry , cou could you go back for a second ?User Interface: okay .Industrial Designer: Uh switching on off channel , uh volume , {vocalsound} okay , that's great.User Interface: 'Kay . Um um among the findings I found that m m most of the curr mm presently available remote controls also include other mm {vocalsound} functionalities um in their design , like operating aV_C_R_ , but they don't seem to be able to deal with D_V_D_ players , but then {vocalsound} there are {disfmarker} surely there are many other functionali functions that could possibly be added to them , butaccording to the last minute update um actually um we do not want to have all this complicated functions added to our design .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: So mypersonal preferences would be uh to keep the mm the whole remote control small um just like the physical size . And then it must be easy to use , so it must follow some conventions um like whereabouts you find theon off button and maybe the colour tends to be red or something . Um then {disfmarker} {vocalsound} yeah , the must-have buttons would be on off and then {vocalsound} the channel numbers and then um{vocalsound} the one that allows us to go to the next or the previous channel , and then volume has to be there . But then um other functionalities um {vocalsound} could be just {disfmarker} uh there could be amenu button and you could change things on the screen then , um for example brightness and mm similar functions could be just um {vocalsound} done through the menu . And yeah , the last question I had aboutwhether we wanted to incorporate n uh more functionalities , the answer was already no because of the last minute update .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: So at the {disfmarker} for the time being that'suh that's all .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: If you have questions {disfmarker}Project Manager: If {disfmarker} I mean that was the the directive that came through from management , but if we had a adecent case for {disfmarker} that we really think it's important to include video and D_V_D_ , I could get back to them and see . It's w it's just whether it's worth arguing about .User Interface: Yeah , and also it's it'sum {disfmarker} other question is uh because there are so many different {disfmarker} And there are so many different things that could possibly be includedMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm-hmm .UserInterface: because besides video and D_V_D_ there are the mm um video C_D_s and whatever , so it might be problematic to to choose between all these possible things .Project Manager: Yeah . Mm-hmm . Okay.Industrial Designer: {gap}Project Manager: Are there any questions for clarification of Maarika before we go on to the next one ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} So in the u user interface requirements uh uh uh wewe have been able to identify what are the basic buttons that we do want . Um but um {vocalsound} so so at this stage , uh how we go about implementing those button we will not identify or {disfmarker} I mean in{disfmarker} we can completely do away with buttons and uh have some kind of a fancy user interface or something like that . But uh is is there any uh uh any thoughts on that ?User Interface: Um well , I think thebuttons are still mm kind of the most um easy for the user to use ,Industrial Designer: Right .User Interface: I mean um what other options would you have ? A little screen or something , but this would be really kind ofI think a lot of learning for the userIndustrial Designer: Yeah , and it'll make the costs {disfmarker} yeah .User Interface: and and I mean the user just wants to get um get a result um quickly , not to spend time in likeum giving several orders um I dunno .Industrial Designer: Right .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: I think I th I would I would think the put the buttons , but if if you have other mm proposals um .IndustrialDesigner: Uh I think the co costs will also play a big role when we come to know about them .Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: So well we can probably wait until t we have more knowledge on that .ProjectManager: Mm .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Uh i if the if the costs allow , we can have like an L_C_D_ displayUser Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: and uh with um {disfmarker} because we do wantsomething fancy and fashionable as well . So yeah ? Cool .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Mm-hmm . Yep .Project Manager: Sure , we can discuss that maybe after the next one .Marketing: Cool . Do youwanna give me the little cable thing ?Project Manager: Do you want to {disfmarker} yeah .User Interface: Uh am I going in the right direction ?Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound} No .{vocalsound} {vocalsound} Wait .Project Manager: Oh , I'm getting hungry . {vocalsound}User Interface: Okay , here it comes . Okay , here you are .Marketing: Cool . Ah , that's why it won't meet . {vocalsound}Okay , cool .Project Manager: You set ?Marketing: Yep , cool . Okay , functional requirements .Project Manager: Uh we need to do the function key thing so that it comes up on here .Marketing: Alright , yeah .ProjectManager: Hello .Industrial Designer: {gap} try to press {disfmarker}Project Manager: Is it plugged in propIndustrial Designer: oh , okay ,Marketing: It's working .Project Manager: it's working ?Industrial Designer: yep.Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Cool , okay .Project Manager: Excellent .Marketing: So what I have , wh where I've got my information from is a survey where the usability lab um observed remote control use withum a hundred subjects and then they gave them a questionnaire . Um so it was all about , you know , how people feel about the look and feel of the remote control , you know . What's the most annoying things aboutremote controls and um the possibility of speech recognition and L_C_D_ screens in remote control . Not that they actually gave me any answers on the L_C_D_ screens , so I should have taken that bit out , butanyway .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Um okay , so . What they found is that people don't like how current remote controls are , so you know , definitely you should be looking at something quitedifferent . Um seventy five percent of users find most remote controls ugly . {vocalsound} Uh the other twenty five percent have no fashion sense . Uh eighty percent of users would spend more to get um you know , anice looking remote control .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Um current remote controls , they don't match the user behaviour well , as you'll see on the next slide . Um I dunno what zapping is , but{disfmarker}Project Manager: It's um switching between channels , sort of randomly going through .Marketing: Oh , right . But you have that little thing that comes up at the bottom and tells you what's on . Um okay ,fifty percent of users say they only use ten percent of the buttons ,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: so that's going back to what , you know , we were saying earlier about , you know ,do you need all the buttons on the remote control ,Industrial Designer: Right .Marketing: they just make it look ugly .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: Okay ? Cool . Um so this is my little graph thing .Project Manager:Ooh , that's a bit difficult to see .Marketing: Mm kProject Manager: If you explain it to us it'll be fine .Marketing: Okay , well , I can send it to all of you . What it is is um it's cones ,Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing:'cause I thought they'd be more exciting . Um but {disfmarker}Project Manager: I liked the , I liked the littMarketing: ooh where's it go ?Project Manager: ooh come back .Marketing: Back . Oh .Project Manager: No.Marketing: Oh yes , cool . Okay , I'm gonna stop playing with the little pointy thing .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Um okay , so like what it shows is how much things areused relatively and what you can clearly see from that is the thing that's used most is the channel selection .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: What you can't see is volume selection , it's a little bit higher than all theothers .Project Manager: Mm-hmm , that's the next one along , yeah ? {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah , so what the graph shows is that , you know , power , channel selection and volume selection are important , and"}
{"doc_id":"doc_141","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Hello .Marketing: Hey guys .User Interface: Hi .Industrial Designer: Hi .Project Manager: Hi .Industrial Designer: I see my bunny is still standing .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: No onedrawing it .Project Manager: It's too beautiful .User Interface: Yeah , true .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh I figured uh that much . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Too wicked .UserInterface: Mm .Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: A minute please , my uh laptop is uh {disfmarker} oh , there it is , thank you . So welcome back . {vocalsound} At the functionaldesign meeting um the plan is uh that uh each one of you , so not me but only you uh will uh present uh the the things you worked on uh the last uh half hour . I will uh take minutes and will put uh the minutes that Ihave uh at the end of the session in the shared folder . {vocalsound} Also the minutes of the previous session are also in the shared folder now , so you can read that uh now or afterwards . Um {vocalsound} uh I hadan email from the from the management boardMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: uh , I don't know if you a al also uh received it , but there were four points uh which uh I think are very important . First one isuh they think that uh teletext teletext becomes outdated uh and internet will be the the main uh focus . {vocalsound} Uh second one is also important uh , because it's one of the discussion points of the previoussession . Uh the remote control shou should onl only be used for the television , so it uh not gonna it's not gonna be a multi-purpose remote control , so uh that's one thing to keep in mind .User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh second , and I think that's important for the Marketing uh Expert , uh the current uh customers uh are in the age group group of uh forty years and older , butwith this uh new remote uh they uh will uh {disfmarker} would like to reach uh a group uh younger than uh forty . Uh and uh I think to keep in mind , but not really uh for now is that they uh want the the the sloganand the and the logo uh to uh to be recognised more in the remote .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So , we have uh forty minutes , so I think uh not more than ten minutes uh uh per presentation uh each ,and please uh use uh all the the the facilities so that you have either SMARTboards , the the Word files , what you uh {disfmarker} whatever you want . So uh Tim , can you start ? Yeah ?Marketing: Okay .{vocalsound} 'Kay , welcome . I have some uh new findings on uh Marketing Expert level ,User Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: which I will show you . {vocalsound} The method I used was um giving orders to ourusability lab uh to do a questionnaire . Um {vocalsound} one hundred respondents were involved and my marketing uh department generated a report with a lot of results . Um , these were a couple of findings , firstpage of three . Um , we have three audiences of {disfmarker} two audiences , {vocalsound} I'm sorry . Uh the first one , this scale , from sixteen to forty five {gap} age . Uh the second one is from sixty four{disfmarker} uh forty six to sixty five . Um , as you can see here , the market share for the first audience is about sixty percent {disfmarker} um sixty five . Uh second audience audience is uh thirty five percent . Mm{vocalsound} and some interests from the from the age groups , uh it seems like the young users of remote controls really like the fancy uh new technology stuff , like uh an L_C_D_ screen on the remote control , umspeech recognition . I don't think that's uh really appropriate . Um , {vocalsound} and when you see uh the audience , the age is going up uh {disfmarker} Yeah , they don't really want it anymore , at least the newtechnologies . Second findings {vocalsound} out of the questionnaire um are the opinion {vocalsound} the opinions uh of the audience about current remote controls . First point is , seventy five percent of the usersfind the most repo remote controls very ugly , uh and eighty percent of the users would spend more money when a remote control would look fancy . So that's maybe something for the User Interface uh Designer .Okay , third findings . According to the frequency of use versus importance investigation , um {vocalsound} following buttons are most important . Um , I will tell something about the way this uh this test was , yeah ,done . Um , {vocalsound} persons were asked uh what the buttons were uh they use most , how much an hour ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: and uh in the second table the importance of those buttons . Um, when you multiply them , you get the {disfmarker} these three points . Switching channels , um yeah , that's pretty uh pretty normal , that's what you do with a remote control . Um the second , teletext , uh and thethird , uh volume controls . Um , I think it's good uh that we know what the user want {disfmarker} wants , uh at least the these three points have to be uh very clear .Project Manager: But it's strange that the themanage board {disfmarker} the management board said that the teletext will be uh outdated by the internet . So that that's strange .Marketing: Yeah , okay . Yeah , okay , but uh at the moment uh teletext is{disfmarker} Yeah , th the best thing you can get uh on T_V_ , like getting information .Project Manager: Yeah , okay . Yeah .Marketing: So uh , when you ask people , what do they use , {vocalsound} they use teletextand not the internet on a remote control .Project Manager: Okay . Yeah , okay .Marketing: That's ridiculous . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: That's a ne i it {disfmarker} It's a new technology ,ProjectManager: Yeah .Marketing: but it's not incorporated right now . Okay , my personal preferences . Um , I think we should aim at the uh audience from sixteen to forty five . {vocalsound} Mm , first of all um it's thebiggest share , the biggest audience , sixty five percent . Uh second , I think you will get the most revenue from i from it . Um , yeah , people from sixteen to forty five watch a lot of T_V_ , more than uh people who areel uh elder . Um {vocalsound} second point , {vocalsound} we have to impro improve the most used functions , as I said here , switching channels , teletext and volume controls . Third point um that came out of the uh{disfmarker} of the questionnaire , uh people used to uh get lost off the remote controller , so maybe it's an idea for us uh to design ex kind of placeholder uh on side of the , yeah , of the T_V_Project Manager: Yeah ,that's a cool idea .Marketing: where you can put the the remote control in . {vocalsound} Um , that's about it , I think . Yeah .Industrial Designer: When you mentioned uh improving functions , what uh what do youmean by that what what are you think about ?Marketing: Uh not not the r not the functions ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh , the funtionability .Marketing: but uh it came out that a lot of buttons weren't evenused uh on a remote control . So you can have a remote control full of buttons , a hundreds hundreds of buttons , but if you don't use them , yeah it's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Ah okay ,so focusing more on the used buttons .Marketing: Yeah , they have to be on itIndustrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: j just to t to get it done if necessary ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: but um the most usedbuttons uh have to be bigger or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Could you use perhaps uh one button for multiple functions , like example pressing it in longer makes it switch to an different function for example.Marketing: Yeah , perhaps .Industrial Designer: Thank you .Marketing: Just for the minor functions perhaps .Industrial Designer: Yeah , ma perhaps , just just an idea .Marketing: Just to get less buttons on the remotecontrol , to make it easier and quicker to learn .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah ? 'Kay , that's it .Project Manager: Thank you , Tim . {vocalsound} Janus , can you uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Uhyeah yeah , I'll go , sure . Right uh , I'll be uh explaining a bit about uh working design about uh the project . Well uh what I did was I dissected uh uh current remote controls and um I viewed how how they w looked ,how they worked , uh what kind of components are involved , and how they are connected together . And uh after that I put up a scheme about how uh these things are organised and I'll show it to you in in a in a fewseconds . And I'll explain a bit about uh how it works and how we could uh build one and why I think several possibilities uh that we discussed in the earlier meeting falls off . Um right . Uh well what I did was uh I Ichecked uh remote controls and the uh remote controls of today are all infrared , not like all probably know . And the thing about that is um the remote controls uh have to act as a T_V_ or uh a stereo or something ,and those uh have a transmitter that's also focused on infrared , so if we want to uh build uh mm a remote control uh with Bluetooth for instance then uh the T_V_ should have Bluetooth too in order to communicate ,so that would mean extra cost for the user and thus uh that's that wouldn't mean a a cheap uh remote control for us . So that's probably why most controls are still infrared . Furthermore they all have uh a a verysimple structure , so that would probably uh mean lower costs and uh i that could mean for us a good thing uh 'cause uh well we we should be able to build a relatively cheap uh {gap} a cheap uh remote . Well uh as Imentioned ready , we have some Bluetooth {disfmarker} Well it may be possible , but uh I figured it wouldn't be possible in {disfmarker} within our budget , but that's not for me to decide , but that's maybe somethingfor marketing to look into . F because uh {disfmarker} well my personal opinion is uh is not to do uh Bluetooth {gap} or or radio waves , {vocalsound} although {disfmarker}Marketing: What do you think about uhincorporating Bluetooth or a radio uh receiver uh in the place-holder next to the T_V_ , connected to the T_V_ ?Industrial Designer: Yeah , actually I have tMarketing: So it's in the wrong product .Industrial Designer:Yeah . Yeah , I actually {disfmarker} I figured that would be that would be rather nice , but then you'd still have the uh {disfmarker} the infrared function . So in in theory you'd actually just move the problem,Marketing: Yeah . Yeah .Industrial Designer: but uh what I did uh think about was when you mentioned about the uh the cup-holder , is why not uh introduce a speech function like where is the remote . If somebodysays , where is the remote , then it goes uh beep uh beep beep beep or something ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .Industrial Designer: I dunno , maybe uh maybe something to look into , Idunno uh what the cost {gap} that something like that would be . But it may be uh may be something to explore . Uh I'll I'll just explain a bit of the components . Uh first you have the energy source . The energy sourcewould be a battery , simple uh battery uh that you can find anywhere . I figured that would be best , 'cause when the battery uh stops functioning uh we could just uh use {disfmarker} you could just go out and buy anew one . So we didn't {disfmarker} and we don't have to do all uh {disfmarker} to be too complicated about that . Uh the energy source is connected to the infrared button , but uh the infrared button uh works onlyvia the chip and the subcomponent to uh the switch {disfmarker} there is a switch uh between these . When the switch is pressed in a w on this this case it switches a button , when a button is prush pushed in , uh aelectric current goes through here , and in uh {disfmarker} immediately , a l a bulb lights up uh displaying to the user that something has happened . That's uh that's so the h user won't be um thinking , well uh did thebutton be pressed , w what happened uh . Or I press button but nothing's happening on the T_V_ , so is is something wrong or something . So that's just to uh to to explain the {disfmarker} of {disfmarker} to to uhmake it clearer to the user . Uh w well the signal goes via chip that's translated into uh electric sig uh electronic signals and then it's processed and then it's sent to the infrared bulb where it will be uh uh received on thereceiving end . And those uh interpreted by the device , well in this case the television . Uh well my personal preferences here , well we have to keep it simple . Not too many uh gadgets and functions , just like you saiduh {disfmarker} well the most users n uh you have a lot of buttons and you u u use {disfmarker} you don't use them , so why why should we invent uh {disfmarker} w spend more time on those . Uh I I think weshould stick by {disfmarker} with infrared transmitting and uh no receiving . So uh no input from the television . So I think we shouldn't be uh spending time on um teletext and st things like that , because when you uhwant teletext on uh infrared you'd have to build in a receiver too , and so in order to receive the signals from uh what's on T_V_ and such . So I figure that would be uh spending too much money and time and{disfmarker}Marketing: Um , yeah , maybe another problem uh , I think current T_V_s can even send infrared .Industrial Designer: Yes , but what should we uh s I I I f I agree with you , but should we spend money or{disfmarker} and time on building a receiver into the uh remote control ?Marketing: Huh .Industrial Designer: 'Cause that would be {disfmarker} I mean extra components , extra designs , um larger g uh remotecontrol .Marketing: Mm-hmm . Yeah .Industrial Designer: These all uh all stuff that we have to take in account .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: So I I {disfmarker} my personal opinion is no no no receiver at all .Um , wellMarketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: we should uh look into the design and the functionability . Like I said , uh use one button for instance for m multiple functions , or well uh just hide the few buttons o ofswitching it open or something , the usual uh {gap} stuff . And uh don't overbuild , we shouldn't make a big uh remote control for simple functions , but we we should stick to the basics . So that was my uh my personalopinion . And that was my uh my presentation uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay , thank you Janus .User Interface: Okay . Yes ,Project Manager: You do ?User Interface: I can go ahead .Project Manager: The lastpresentation . You have plenty of time ,User Interface: Last presentation . Okay .Project Manager: Tim and uh Janus don't uh talk to ten minutes ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: so uh take yourtime .User Interface: {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: If you take your time too long I will uh eventually uhIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: warn you .User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Well , I'm going to give a presentation abut some of the technical functions of these design and uh usability functions .Project Manager: {vocalsound}UserInterface: Um what's my opinion about what's most important to combine the design , technical possibilities and the user friendliness in one , so if you um going to design a remote that looks good , that shouldn't weighover the uh {disfmarker} if it's possible to make , of course , but also the user friendliness , so tha that's that's some of the main points . And another one is um the use um of many functions will will make it moredifficult , so use as as little functions as possible or at least don't display them all at once on the same remote . If you have fifty functions you don't want fifty buttons uh t uh to be shown at the same time ,Marketing:Hmm .User Interface: 'cause when you visit an internet uh site you don't want fifty links uh to see , but maybe use a hierarch hierarchy uh structure . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: And uh wellone of the ideas was maybe uh use touch screen , but s I don't know in how far that is possible ,Marketing: Hmm .User Interface: since we are sticking to uh um infrared and and the remote cannot receive anything ,but uh we might uh consider that . Um well , of course I I hope this is all clear to you . If you {disfmarker} you can use remote like this with all the functions , {gap} many functions , but {disfmarker} Well , your thumbis a little bigger than th it than this . You have to be very careful what you push ,Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: and um if you're looking for teletext you'll be uh searching for half an hour from uhum {disfmarker} yeah well , where is it ? Where the hell {disfmarker} he here I guess and , yeah , when you have to uh use something else . So just keep it simple , make clear buttons , easy to use . For example ifyou want to use a play and back and stop , that's very important . Um well this was because of our last discussion , if multiple machines are used , create easy switch between the machines , but um it's no longer uhapplying . {vocalsound} Well yeah , I prefer to use it only for T_V_ and um n uh not to give too many options and and if possible , uh the buttons should give {vocalsound} a dr direct action , not first select{disfmarker}Project Manager: Uh you you just said um uh you wanted to to combine more functions in one , so uhUser Interface: Yeah ,Project Manager: you you want to keep it simple ,User Interface: and so that'swhere the difficulties lie .Industrial Designer: Yeah , but {disfmarker}Project Manager: but I think that if you want to do that , then you can't escape the the fact that there will be buttons uh which give s uh moreoptions than one .User Interface: Yeah , this {disfmarker} so that's the thing you have to weigh against each other .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Yeah , but {disfmarker}User Interface: Do we want to use a few optionsand might not be so or original , or uh multi-purpose as we thought ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Okay .User Interface: or do we want to use um many buttons .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: So um weighingthose factors .Marketing: Hmm {gap} it's maybe an option uh if you use an L_C_D_ {vocalsound} or a touch screen um , that in the middle are the the main keys , like displayed on the {disfmarker}User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: Uh yeah .User Interface: The {gap} doesn't {gap} .Marketing: {vocalsound} {gap} . Yeah , this ? No ? Yeah . {vocalsound} Something like that . Okay , just uh in the middle the generalfunctions , like play , uh channel switching ,User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: and then uh at the top or at the bottom , some menus like uh settings or {disfmarker} that you can drop down .User Interface: Yeah , butwhen all the questions I had {disfmarker} Do we want to use uh a menu display on the T_V_ ? Or um does have to f everything uh be in remotes ? 'Cause if you use a memory display on the T_V_ , you can simply pushuh a more menu and then select the options you want to have and press okay .Marketing: Mm .User Interface: Uh so that's my recommendation , if you use many options in one buttle {disfmarker} button , um displaythe menu on the T_V_Marketing: Nah . Mm-hmm .User Interface: and don't um use combination of t of two buttons at the same time or pressing buttons three times for five seconds ,Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: istoo complicated for most users .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah , but {disfmarker}Marketing: I think so too , but {disfmarker} {vocalsound} and that's partly because um uh a lot of T_V_s have differentmenus , and when you have a particular menu uh at your device , uh it could be that don't correspond to the menu what's actually on T_V_ .User Interface: Yeah , that will be a problem .Industrial Designer:WellMarketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: you d you have to {gap} keep in mind that uh several T_V_s uh don't even have a menu structure , or they have a very simple menu structure , so you have to keep in mindthat not all uh d not {disfmarker} our remote won't be able to work on all televisions .User Interface: Yes .Industrial Designer: And that would be uh a considerable problem .User Interface: So if we have to stick withcurrent technologies and uh um well yeah , the restrictions of what's uh is on the market today , um you should keep it s at this .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: Use big clear buttons . Not too many . Somaybe we'll loose a few option uh options , but I think i this is more important . Um {vocalsound} especially the important buttons , um if you want to switch channel , change your volume , uh use teletext , it uh it hasto work at once and more advanced options may be put it s somewhere away on the remote , behind uh a little uh little thing or a touch screen .Industrial Designer: Not embed Yeah , but then with something like atouch screen could {disfmarker} could make more menu up {disfmarker} pop up or something .User Interface: And yeah , if you want to uh uh s put {gap} on stand-by or change the channel , that should always be"}
{"doc_id":"doc_142","qid":"","text":"Lynne Neagle AM: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee this morning. I have received apologies for absence from Jack Sargeant, and I'm very pleased to welcomeVikki Howells, who is substituting for Jack this morning. Can I ask whether there are any declarations of interest from Members, please? No. Okay. Thank you. Item 2 this morning is our last evidence session on theChildren (Abolition of Defence of Reasonable Punishment) (Wales) Bill, and I'm really pleased to welcome back Julie Morgan AM, Deputy Minister for Health and Social Services; Karen Cornish, who is deputy director ofthe children and families division; and Emma Gammon, who is the lawyer working on the Bill. So, thank you all for coming. If you're happy, we'll go straight into questions because we've got lots of ground that we wantto cover, and the first questions are from Janet Finch-Saunders.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Good morning. Thank you, Chair. Good morning, Deputy Minister. Of those individuals who responded to our writtenconsultation in a personal capacity, nearly 70 per cent do not support this Bill. We also heard a clear message from the parents we met last week who oppose this Bill that, as parents, they understand clearly thedifference between child abuse and a light smack from a loving parent. How would you like to respond to that?Julie Morgan AM: Thank you very much, Janet, for that question. I think I'd like to start by saying that childabuse is not the issue that the Bill is trying to address. What the Bill is trying to do is prohibit all forms of physical punishment, and that is in order to protect children's rights and to ensure that children have the sameprotection from physical punishment as adults. But I do understand that people have different views, and that's why this process has been so important—for us to hear what your views are and what parents' views are.I know that, often, people use different euphemisms really to make light of physical punishment. I've heard expressions used such as a 'light smack' or a 'loving smack' or a 'tap', and really there can be differentinterpretations of what is a 'light smack', what is a 'loving smack', and that doesn't really cover the issue of the frequency of such actions being taken. But I would say that, however mild it seems to be, the UnitedNations Committee on the Rights of the Child recognises that any physical punishment of children, however minor, is incompatible with their human rights, and why should a big person hit a little person? That's beenthe sort of mantra, really, that has taken me through supporting this legislation—that it just seems wrong to me that there is something in the law that could mean that there could be an excuse for that happening. Ibelieve we shouldn't have anything in the law that defends the physical punishment of children, and I don't think we should be defining acceptable ways of hitting or punishing children, because I think it does send aconfused message to children. It says, 'It's okay for me to hit you, but don't you hit anybody else.' I think it causes confusion. So, I'm confident that updating the law will make it much clearer for parents and peopleworking with children—and, of course, I'm sure, as you'll have heard from the evidence you've taken, that people who work with children are overwhelmingly in support of this legislation, and the representative surveysthat we've carried out show support for the Bill's principles.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you, Deputy Minister. Last week, during the workshop, a few parents—predominantly all of them, actually—said that they usea gentle tap or smacking as part of a toolkit of ways to deal with challenging behaviour or, sometimes, for the safety of the child or, indeed, to carry out the parenting of a child. How do you intend to work with parentsgoing forward, given the finite resources that social care and social services have? I know from the responses we've received to the consultation that parents themselves who have to parent 24 hours a day, seven daysa week, they are really, on the scale of things, very upset about this. How do you intend to try and get your message across to those parents on removing what they consider to be part of their toolkit when raisingchildren? How do you intend to deal with that aspect?Julie Morgan AM: Well, first of all, I want to say, as I've said in most evidence sessions, that I completely accept that bringing up children is hard. It's very difficult;many of us have done it and we know how tough it can be. But we don't think that there is any place for physical punishment in bringing up children. There's a whole range of other ways that you can help parents bringup children, and advice you can give them of different methods to use. But, the clear message of this Bill is that we don't want any physical punishment; we don't think it's the right thing to do, and we believe that weare supported by many people in that view.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: You've got other questions, Janet.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Okay. Oh, yes. Several consultation responses refer tostatistics from Sweden, which they say show that child-on-child violence actually increased by 1,791 per cent between 1984 and 2010, following the ban on physical punishment in 1979. What is your view on thesefigures and how can we be certain that this Bill won't lead to other long-term negative outcomes in Wales?Julie Morgan AM: Well, I'm aware of the debate surrounding the interpretation of the different statistics fromSweden. What's happened, really, in the academic research is that different academics are focused on different figures to support their views, and the methodological ways of doing it makes it quite difficult to havecausation. I was very encouraged that a recent study of 88 countries concluded that if a country prohibits corporal punishment, the result is association with less youth violence, and this is one of the largestcross-national analyses of youth violence, with more than 400,000 participants. So, there is other evidence, very widespread evidence, which looks at a whole range of people, that is in contrast to the Swedishevidence. But, evidence in this field is mixed and we have considered a wide range of research and reviews, but ultimately the decision is one that is based on our commitment to children's rights.Janet Finch-SaundersAM: Okay, thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Do you want question 3?Janet Finch-Saunders AM: I can do it, yes. The Bill's explanatory memorandum says that 'there is no definitive evidence that \"reasonable\" physicalpunishment causes negative outcomes for children'. However, we have heard from Equal Protection Network Cymru that international evidence could not be clearer and that they found the Wales Centre for PublicPolicy's report, on which the explanatory memorandum is based, very confusing and very frustrating, and that it didn't tie in with what they knew. How would you respond to those viewpoints?Julie Morgan AM: We werevery keen to get as balanced research as we possibly could, and we didn't want to just put forward views that we thought agreed with our point of view. So, we were trying to give a balanced point of view, but we didcommission the Wales Centre for Public Policy to do an independent literature review and we're honestly reporting to you what they said. But they did make it clear, again, which I think I've said in previous evidencesessions, that all physical punishment, under all conditions, is potentially harmful to children. And certainly, there is no peer-reviewed research that says that physically punishing a child is going to improve things, hasfavourable outcomes. So, I understand what Equal Protection Network Cymru are saying, because there is a lot of very strong evidence, but we're giving you the evidence that we had from the research that wecommissioned.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. We've got some questions now from Suzy on implementation.Suzy Davies AM: Thank you, Chair. I've just got a couple of questions on this balance between the steps thatwill be needed to implement this Bill and the impact that it'll actually have. You've probably heard in evidence that we've received that there are still some concerns out there about how agencies might address maliciousreporting; some detail about how the public interest test might be applied further along the line; what's going to happen with out-of-hours provision from social services, and so on. There are still, from our perspective,quite a few things that are unknown about the effect on our public services in particular of the implementation of this Bill. Would you agree that perhaps we should know a little bit more about that before we proceedwith supporting the Bill?Julie Morgan AM: Well, it's very difficult, bringing in this legislation that hasn't been done before. It's very difficult to gauge the impact, and we've covered that, I know, in previous discussions.But I think it's very important to say that we are not creating a new offence. The Bill is removing a defence to an offence of common assault. And I think it's an interesting point to make that, in Ireland, they introducedsimilar legislation through an amendment to a Bill, and had no detailed preparation for bringing in the Bill, and in fact there's no evidence that this has caused any difficulties, and no significant negative impacts orincrease in workload. But in any case, we have our implementation group, which is going to address many of these issues. This met on 14 May. That was the first meeting. You see, I think we do have to take a balancebetween assuming this Bill is going to go through and what we can actually do. We can't presume that the Assembly will accept this Bill, so we have to be staged in what we do. But we had the first strategicimplementation group on 14 May, and we had representatives from the police, the police and crime commissioners, the Crown Prosecution Service, the Association of Directors of Social Services Cymru, the Associationof Directors of Education in Wales, the Welsh Local Government Association, the legal profession and the third sector. They're all there, and they're all very keen to make this legislation work and to look at theimplications of it. I'd just like to say how grateful I am for all those organisations giving their time and commitment. They've set up four work streams, looking at parenting advice and support; data collection, evaluationand monitoring; operations, procedures and processes; and out-of-court disposals and diversions. These groups will be taking forward this work and will be looking at many of those issues that you've mentioned, andwill also be updated on the progress of the awareness strategy that we will be bringing in. I'm really confident that the legislation will be implemented in a very practical and workable way, because we do have thecommitment of all these agencies, and there's been a huge amount of preparation done in the Welsh Government to prepare for this in a way that, I have to say, hasn't been done in some of the other countries—as Imentioned, in Ireland. So, as much preparation as could be done is being done and has been done, but we really now see that the implementation group is taking forward all these issues, and obviously those agenciesthat are taking part in the implementation group are, on the whole, in support of the principles of this Bill.Suzy Davies AM: Well, thank you for that, Minister, but the way I look at this is that you've already said that, ifthis Bill passes—and it will pass; it's in enough manifestos to pass, so the question is what type of Bill is going to pass—and if there is a gap of, let's say, two years before anything is implemented, and theimplementation group is doing the work that you've described—and we're very relieved to hear that—why is this Bill being introduced now when that implementation group hasn't really come up with a strategy thatcould help persuade people about what implementing this Bill would look like in real life? You're asking the Welsh public to take a bit of a chance on this.Julie Morgan AM: I think we have, as far as possible, looked atinternational evidence where this legislation has been introduced. It's different for different countries, so I know it's difficult to get anything that's absolutely linked. But I don't agree that it's a bit of a chance, really. Ithink we are preparing very well and very carefully. As the team who have been working on this have worked through the preparation for the Bill, lots of issues have arisen as they've done that, and so you have to dothat, I think, alongside the actual practical implications with the groups that are coming together, and I think the point at which we've done that is probably just about right, really.Suzy Davies AM: Okay. I hope this isn'tgoing on to somebody else's questions, but accepting what you say, would you then be open to accepting amendments to the face of the Bill that would clarify the position for the Welsh public on certain things that maybe of concern to them, which have been fed through to us? I'm not suggesting anything specific, but—.Julie Morgan AM: No, no. I mean, the position is that it is a very simple, one-clause Bill. We want to keep it assimple as possible, but I'm certainly prepared to consider any issues that come up, and I think that's been the case all along. Although our preference is to keep it simple.Suzy Davies AM: I understand that. It's justwhat's going to work as a bit of law here, isn't it? And then just finally from me, and you've made the point to a degree, that, of course, not all countries are like Wales. If we look at Ireland, and New Zealand's the onewe've been looking at an awful lot, which are the most similar, their work hasn't really been in place for that long, and one of the things that, I think, you're going to need to be able persuade us of is that if the culturechange to which we've already referred is going in one way anyway, and if it continues to go in that direction, that this Bill will have had a causal effect. I'm trying to establish whether the culture change is going tohappen anyway, whether or not we pass this legislation.Julie Morgan AM: Well, it does look as if a culture change is happening in any case, but the culture change will never really move, I think, as most of us want it, ifthere is legislation that does appear to condone the use of physical punishment, and having this reasonable punishment in law means that happens. So, I think, passing the legislation by itself will certainly not doeverything—Suzy Davies AM: No. And you'll be aware that this is to go with it. I get that, but—Julie Morgan AM: You've got to have—. And I think the research has all shown you've got to have an awareness campaignrunning along with it. That is shown. And in the other countries we've looked at, I don't think an awareness campaign was actually carried out because we are planning a really big awareness campaign because we thinkit's absolutely fair to the Welsh public, as you said, that they absolutely know what we're doing and everybody's aware of it. So, I think it is—.Suzy Davies AM: Okay. Well, can I just finish—?Julie Morgan AM: I know thepoint you're making. You're saying that this would happen in any case, maybe.Suzy Davies AM: I'm suggesting it.Julie Morgan AM: But if you've got a bit of legislation there on the Bill, it will always mean that for a veryminority group of parents, they will feel that they have got the right to use physical punishment against their child, and I just think it's something we should get rid of. I think it's an anachronism and it's something weshould—. And I think Wales has been very strong on children's rights. We've got rid of physical punishment in schools, child minders, regulated care settings. And, of course, the other point that I don't think we sayenough about is that it's not just parents; it's people in loco parentis who are working in leisure centres or religious establishments or any of those unregulated settings who also have this defence. So, it's last bit in thejigsaw, really, to have it quite clear that we want to treat our children with respect and dignity and I think this will move us towards that.Suzy Davies AM: Okay. Well, it's the argument you've made before. I think whatI was trying to get to is: how are we going to prove that this piece of legislation has worked effectively? It's about the data capture, I guess.Julie Morgan AM: Yes.Suzy Davies AM: What are you going to do to make surethat you acquire evidence in the future to show that this has worked, or potentially not worked? I'd be surprised if that was the case, but—. Because, of course, that has an implication then on the resources for thevarious people you'll be asking to collect the data.Julie Morgan AM: Yes. I think that's very important because we need to know what is the effect of the legislation we'll be bringing in. So, we will be having ongoingevaluation, we will be bringing in an independent body to evaluate. We have got ongoing monitoring and we've got ongoing monitoring surveys looking at what are the views of the public. So, yes—Suzy Davies AM: It'llbe directly linked to the Bill, then, rather than that broad culture change.Julie Morgan AM: The monitoring, asking the views of the public, is generally about issues related to the Bill. The views of parents about whetherthis legislation—Suzy Davies AM: Sorry, I don't want to labour this point.Julie Morgan AM: And awareness. How aware they are.Suzy Davies AM: Basically, we need a question, 'Has this Bill stopped you smacking yourchild?' That's the core question. So, phrase it differently, yes?Julie Morgan AM: Yes. Well, we are in the surveys asking how many people feel that they do smack their child, but this is any physical punishment, actually,not just smacking—Suzy Davies AM: And it's for the future, not for now.Julie Morgan AM: —and how many, actually, are doing that. And it is consistently going down, as you said.Suzy Davies AM: Thank you. I don'twant to take it any further.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. We're going to move on to explore some of the issues around social services now with questions from Dawn Bowden.Dawn Bowden AM: Thank you, Chair.Morning, Minister. When the Association of Directors of Social Services Cymru came in, they were saying to us that they would encourage people to report any instances, anything that they see around somebodysmacking a child. That leads on to the question about whether in fact social services, then, would change their thresholds for intervention if there were more cases being referred to them. Are you fairly confident, areyou certain, that that wouldn't happen, or do you think there is a danger that social services might actually say, 'Well, actually, if we're getting all these referrals, we need to think again about when and if we intervene',and the thresholds could become a bit lower?Julie Morgan AM: Well, as you know, social services already receive and investigate reports of children being physically punished—any sort of range of physicalpunishment—and they use standard procedures to determine how to proceed, but that's done on a case-by-case basis; it's made on the individual case element. And, of course, there is a distinction between reasonablepunishment and child neglect or abuse. And if this legislation is enacted, a significant proportion of the incidents of physical punishment will not require any response under the child protection procedures, and we do notexpect the threshold of significant harm to change. And I know you took evidence from the ADSS, and I know Sally Jenkins gave evidence, who is one of the lead practitioners, and I understood she said: 'In terms ofthresholds for children's services, we would not be anticipating a huge number of referrals to us. There may be a small number of referrals that come through. What we know from other nations is that it will peak andthen settle. We recognise that's likely to happen.' So, I think—Dawn Bowden AM: So, it's the threshold for intervention that's the key, really, isn't it, rather than—?Julie Morgan AM: Yes, they don't see thatchanging.Dawn Bowden AM: So, they don't see that changing.Julie Morgan AM: No, no. And we don't see that changing.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay, that's fine. The police, when they came in to give evidence, talked aboutthe need for the multi-agency safeguarding hubs. And what we also heard is that it's a bit inconsistent across the country. And I think you acknowledged that as well. Do you think the implementation of the Bill, and itseffectiveness, is going to be dependent on us having consistently effective multi-agency safeguarding hubs right the way across the country?Julie Morgan AM: No. The effective implementation of the Bill does notdepend on MASHs, as we call them for short, because bodies, social services, already work closely with the police on a day-to-day basis, really, and they have indicated their willingness to do so, and there are alreadywell-established mechanisms in place that enable this joint working to take place. I know that the MASHs are only in certain areas, and I know that it's—. I think they're probably very good to have, actually, and very"}
{"doc_id":"doc_143","qid":"","text":"Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Hmm .Project Manager: Okay . Good morning everybody . Um I'm glad you could all come . I'm reallyexcited to start this team . Um I'm just gonna have a little PowerPoint presentation for us , for our kick-off meeting . My name is Rose Lindgren . I I'll be the Project Manager . Um our agenda today is we are gonna do alittle opening and then I'm gonna talk a little bit about the project , then we'll move into acquaintance such as getting to know each other a little bit , including a tool training exercise . And then we'll move into theproject plan , do a little discussion and close , since we only have twenty five minutes . First of all our project aim . Um we are creating a new remote control which we have three goals about , it needs to be original ,trendy and user-friendly . I'm hoping that we can all work together to achieve all three of those . Um so we're gonna divide us up into three {vocalsound} compa three parts . First the functional design which will be uhfirst we'll do individual work , come into a meeting , the conceptional design , individual work and a meeting , and then the detailed design , individual work and a meeting . So that we'll each be doing our own ideas andthen coming together and um collaborating . Okay , we're gonna get to know each other a little bit . So um , what we're gonna do is start off with um let's start off with Amina . Um Alima ,Industrial Designer: Alima.Project Manager: sorry , Alima .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um we're gonna do a little tool training , so we are gonna work with that whiteboard behind you . Um introduceyourself , um say one thing about yourself and then draw your favourite animal and tell us about it .Industrial Designer: Okay . Um I don't know which one of these I have to bring with me .Project Manager: Probablyboth .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Right , so , I'm supposed to draw my favourite animal . I have no drawing skills whatsoever . But uh let's see , introduce myself . My name is Alima Bucciantini . Um I'm from thestate of Maine in the US . I'm doing nationalism studies , blah , blah , blah , and I have no artistic talents .Project Manager: How do you spell your name ?Industrial Designer: A_ L_ I_ M_ A_ .Project Manager: Thanks.Industrial Designer: Oh , and I guess I'm the Industrial Designer on this project . So let's see if I can getMarketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: um here . I will draw a little turtle for you all . Notnecessarily 'cause it's my absolute favourite animal , but just that I think they're drawable . And you have the pretty little shell going on . Some little eyes . Happy . There you go . That's a turtle .Marketing: Yes .ProjectManager: So what are your favourite characteristics ?Industrial Designer: Um . I I like the whole having a shell thing .Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: It's quite cool carry your home around where you go ,um quite decorative little animals , they can swim , they can , they're very adaptable , they carry everything they need with them , um and they're easy to draw .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Excellent .UserInterface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Shall we just go around the table ?User Interface: Uh Okay . Well , my name is Iain uhProject Manager: Mm .User Interface: and I'm the User Interface Designerfor the project . Um . And I'll try and draw my favourite animal .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} No ,User Interface: I'll {disfmarker} I should leave that one on thereIndustrial Designer: you can erase the turtle ,UserInterface: shouldn't I {vocalsound} before I callously rub it off .Industrial Designer: it's alright .Project Manager: Might be nice to have them all up there at same time .User Interface: {vocalsound} Um I'm not gonnadraw it quite to scale um .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Is that at least identifiable ?Industrial Designer: Snake .Marketing: Well .Project Manager: EmIndustrial Designer: Well ,UserInterface: It's a whale {vocalsound} , yes .Industrial Designer: snake ? {vocalsound} It's w {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Thanks .Marketing: Oh my god , it's better than what I'm gonna be able to do.User Interface: {vocalsound} Um and , yeah , the reason I like whales is 'cause uh they're {disfmarker} well , first of all they're quite intelligent um and also they're they're kind of mysterious , like we don't really knowmuch about them or or understand how they work , how they form groups . And I just find them interesting animals .Marketing: Take my contraptions with me . Alright , I'm Jessy . I'm from around D_C_ ish sort of inthe U_S_ . And we're gonna keep the deep sea sort of theme going on , {gap} animal . Don't really know how to draw this . Just where can I {disfmarker} Mm . Mm . Maybe if I do the water ,Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: but how ? Sort of give an idea . {vocalsound} I have no idea how one would explain this . Mm maybe with some whiskers . Briefly , it's supposed to be a seal .Project Manager:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: You can imagine it in the water . I like them , because they are like playful and silly sort of have a good time . Not gonna try and pretend like I can get anybetter than that . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm 'kay . Mm 'kay ? I'm Rose and I'm Project Manager , {vocalsound} from California . Um . Hmm . {vocalsound} S {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Oh,Marketing: It's definitely significantly harder once you are doing it .Industrial Designer: a cat .Project Manager: Um it's actually a coyote .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Let's see . Let's see ,IndustrialDesigner: Right .Marketing: {vocalsound} That's impressive .Project Manager: let's give it a little bit of a snout , I don't know , some teeth .Industrial Designer: That's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah .IndustrialDesigner: That's pretty impressive .User Interface: Cool . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Oh dear . {vocalsound} Yes .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I live um I live right across thestreet from an open space in California . We have coyotes howl all the time . So I really enjoy their their singing , you they're really beautiful animals . Mm . {vocalsound} Okay um , moving on to slightly more seriousstuff . We're gonna talk about project finances . Um we have a couple {vocalsound} we'd like to sell it for about twenty five Euro with the profit aim of um fifteen million Euro um from our sales and because this is such{disfmarker} this is for television it's a {disfmarker} we have a market range of Internet , like it's an international market range , we don't have to worry about specifics . Um in order to make a profit of this magnitude ,we need to um be able to produce each one at a maximum of twelve fifty Euro . So we're selling it for twice what we'd like to produce it for . Okay um , just to generate a little bit of discussion about the project um , Icould {disfmarker} I'd like to hear about your experiences using ro remote controls , um your first ideas about um creating a new r remote control , what would be the best um like you {disfmarker} what are thefeatures that you really like what are the features that you don't like , etcetera , so {disfmarker}Marketing: Um I hate when there's like four different buttons and you have to press to actually turn on the T_V_ like youhave to do one for the power of the T_V_ and then like another one to get the actual screen on and something else to get it all going , I don't know . Now they keep combining all different remotes together , and I don'tknow if I necessarily like that 'cause I feel like you end up with multimedia overload .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: I just wanna watch the T_V_ {vocalsound} um .Project Manager: Hmm .Marketing:{vocalsound} Always gets lost . Some sort of like device to help you find it .User Interface: I've used , I've used remote controls , for things like T_V_ and the C_D_ player and video recorder and I I guess they'rethey're pretty neat neat little tools uh . You don't have to get up and walk across the room to change a channel .Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: So especially if you're someone really lazy like me they they'repretty nice . Um . I find them {disfmarker} they can be a bit annoying , especially , like you know if I'm watching T_V_ I have have to have three separate remote controls of {disfmarker} in front of me , you know ,one for the T_V_ , one for the digital box , one for m the video recorder as well . Um . And also they tend to they tend to be a bit confusing , they've got too many buttons on them uh too too sort of too sort ofcomplicated when all I really wanna do is switch on and off , change the channel , change the volume .Industrial Designer: Yeah um . I agree with having too many remotes around . My dad has a whole drawer at homeof remotes for various things , and I don't know how to work half of them um . What's important for me , I guess , is that it's easy to use and that there's not too many buttons , they are not too small , you know youknow you need to n to know what you're doing . And one thing I particularly like is if you are not um sort of moving it around to get it to work with the infra-red .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Um , I think thereis a way around that ,User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: but I know in my residence right now the the television you sort of have to walk all around the room to get it to turn on ,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: so i it's just simpler just to just turn around the T_V_ itself , and I think that's {disfmarker} if we're gonna make a remote control , it should actually work for what it's doing . So{disfmarker}Marketing: What about like batteries and things like that , like are there some remotes that don don't require like batteries or do all remotes require batteries ?Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um I wouldimagine all of them ,Industrial Designer: I know .Project Manager: but we could {disfmarker} but it's possible we could use like a lithium battery um that would last a lot longer than like double A_s .Industrial Designer:Yeah , something that doesn't {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Um like tho those are the batteries that are used in a lot of um M_P_ three players now and that kind of thing . Um .Marketing:Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: Um . Okay , it seems we have a little bit of a conflict over um to uh combining all the remotes cont together versus having f five different remotes . So um like yousaid you don't like having all the buttons on one on one remote , and yet you don't wanna have five remotes . So how do we work with that ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .User Interface: Mm .IndustrialDesigner: Could we get something that just has {disfmarker} No doesn't have all the buttons that you need to program the video recorder or program s other things that I'm not very coherent about , but that just hasyour major buttons for {disfmarker} that work for everything , you know volume control , on , off ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: channel changing .Marketing: And maybe that spatially divides it , soit's like if you're looki if you're trying to get the T_V_ on that's , you know , like the top thing on the remote , I dunno if d be vertical or horizontal in terms of how we're gonna make it , but if it's like all the T_V_ stuffwas here ,Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: then all the V_C_R_ stuff was here , all the {disfmarker} whatever else we have programmed into it it's all just in its separate place and not like all the on buttonstogether ,Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: N that way {disfmarker} Yeah .Marketing: 'cause then you like , I don't even know what I'm turning on .Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Yeah , and if um if you'd save the more complicated functions maybe for separate remotes that you wouldn't need to use every day .Marketing: {vocalsound} Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Okay , so maybe have like oneremote that has the main functions on , off , channel changing , volume , and another rote remote with all the special things .Industrial Designer: Um .Project Manager: Because that is one thing that um remotes tendto have buttons that the T_V_s no longer have as well .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: So like you have to have them somewhere ,Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: 'causeyou're gonna m need those special functions occasionally . Um but not necessarily on the m the normal remote .Industrial Designer: Right .User Interface: Can I ask , are we designing a remote control for a televisiononlyProject Manager: {vocalsound} Good question .User Interface: um , and if if this device is just to be used for the television would we even technically be possible to include video recorder functions on it ?ProjectManager: {vocalsound} I don't know that yet .User Interface: Um or should we just stick to just stick to having television television related buttons on it ?Industrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: It's a good question .Um . {vocalsound} I'll look into that .Marketing: Mm-hmm hmm .Project Manager: If I can .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: I think it's just T_V_ , I mean , if it {disfmarker} if we're taking it just {gap} newproduct a new television remote control that's not like {vocalsound} doesn't say .Industrial Designer: Mm yeah .Marketing: You know , things might be more advanced than that . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm.User Interface: {vocalsound} So we should {disfmarker} maybe we should assume that i t it's just a television that we're wanting to control .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Well , I mean I suppose itwould be nice to have {vocalsound} playing and record and stop buttons on it for the video recorder as well I I don't know if that works technologically or not .Industrial Designer: Yes . I guess we have to define whatwhat we're aiming for . If it's just a television then that {disfmarker} it's a bit simpler , 'cause there's less buttons that would even need to be on it .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: It's an idea with the buttons beingreally {gap} .Industrial Designer: Large . If you have older people or people like me that aren't very co-ordinated hand-eye , it's really quite important that you are not pressing a small like teeny mobiles phone sizebuttons , if we can help it .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay . 'Kay sounds like we've had a good little discussion for our first ideas . Mind if we move on ? PsIndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}Project Manager: mm okay .User Interface: 'Kay .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Um now our next meeting starts in thirty minutes . I believe we've actually been only working on thisthis one for about twenty , so we can continue discussing more new ideas if you'd like um ,Industrial Designer: Hmm .Project Manager: but this is just a breakdown of what we'll be doing individually . Um the industrialdesign , Alima will be doing um the working design .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Um the User Interface Designer , that's for {gap} . Technical functions , I guess like keeping in mind the buttons thing ,the size of the buttons . Um user requirements um , so you'll be hearing about different trends , uh about different things that people need , um I guess kind of the same uh discussion that we've been having , we'll getfrom the actual consum s consumers .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Mm 'kay um . And you will get specific instructions sent by your personal coach . I realised in this past one we we didn't have much , we justwanted to get a little brain-storming done . Um so very exited to see all your animals and how {disfmarker} what wonderful um artists we all are {vocalsound} um .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Anyquestions ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: What we're gonna be discussing at the next meeting ? Do we know that ?Project Manager: I haven't gotten an agenda yet , um I'll put that together . I'msure as we'll each get our own instructionUser Interface: Right .Project Manager: and then um because what we gonna do is first our individual actions and then we'll come back together . So I'm sure we'll all have moreconcrete things to contribute next timeUser Interface: Yep .Industrial Designer: 'Kay .User Interface: Yep .Industrial Designer: I'm sure we'll be busy .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm 'kay um I'll typeup mi minutes and probably email those out to all of you . Um just including all the things that we talked about . Um .User Interface: Okay . Can you e-mail your slides as well ? Is that possible ?Project Manager: Yes , Iyes , I think I can . Mm-hmm .User Interface: CoolProject Manager: I'll just attach it to an email . And you're you're number two ,Industrial Designer: I'm two .Project Manager: three , four ?Marketing: I'm four .ProjectManager: Is that correct ? Okay .Industrial Designer: Alright .Project Manager: Excellent . It was lovely meeting you all .User Interface: 'KayProject Manager: Just make sure you keep checking the company web siteand the emails . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: 'Kay .Project Manager: Let me see if I can do that right now ."}
{"doc_id":"doc_144","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: {vocalsound} Alright , yeah . {gap} crack on {gap} . Okay so we'll start off with a quick overview of the minutes . I think to sum up the last meeting , would be to say um the requirements that we'veum set out . Those are we were going to go for what seemed to be a fairly minimal design based on uh a small joystick , {vocalsound} L_C_D_ and a couple of other buttons for navigation um with power being Isuppose one of the main single purpose buttons . Um we were also going to use {gap} novelty of being able to locate the remote control again via a small transmitter with any luck , the idea to try and separate us andalso because of the minimal design um looks like we'll be able to be fairly adventurous in the actual physical shape of our remote control with any luck . Um that pretty much sums up the last one . So we'll just crack on, um like to maybe start with the Industrial Designer if it's possible .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh uh okay .Project Manager: Um uh the con today is the concep today .Industrial Designer: I'll just{disfmarker}Project Manager: This uh meeting is the conceptual design phase and is um {disfmarker} Sorry about this . {gap} . And is to cover things like um what the parts might be made of , um , can we uhoutsource these from elsewhere , um will we have to construct any items ourselves ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh I have a presentation {gap} I just saved it in the uh the folder .Project Manager: Yeah , okaywell I'll just uh I'll load it up then . Um {vocalsound} . Which one do yIndustrial Designer: Uh .Project Manager: Oh , interface concept ?User Interface: Yeah , that's me .Project Manager: That's you . We've got trendwatching , that's you .Industrial Designer: It's uh {disfmarker} Components design .Project Manager: Components design .Industrial Designer: {gap} .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: Alright . {vocalsound}So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Uh . The case uh le that's what I wrote first of all , could be plastic our plastic . Uh but later on {gap} we found out that um it can be rubber as well , or titanium or even wood . So uh wedecide what it's gonna be . Probably plastic . Uh we need the infra-red transmitter . Get that off the shelf . Uh joystick we'll probably if we're gonna use it , um could be plastic w or rubber even as well . Um{vocalsound} if you go on to the next slide . Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} If you go on to f uh findings , it's like two or three slides down .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: Right . So , this is what I foundwe can use . Uh three different types of batteries . Um can either use a hand dynamo , or the kinetic type ones , you know that they use in watches , or else uh a solar powered one .Project Manager: Okay . Now,Industrial Designer: Um .Project Manager: the kinetic one , we've {disfmarker} 'cause that's the ones where like you {disfmarker} the movement causes it .Marketing: Cost is {disfmarker} Yeah .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: Um the bat uh the battery for a a watch wouldn't require a lot of power , would be my one query .User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: Is a kinetic one going to be able to supplyenough power ?User Interface: There's also a watch moves around a great deal more .Project Manager: Do you think ?Industrial Designer: Uh .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: WIndustrial Designer:Yeah , I don't think it would . Um . And solar cells , I dunno about that .Marketing: {gap} yeah .Industrial Designer: Uh . We should probably just use conventional batteries . Um , just like in usual remote controls.Project Manager: Which I suppose as well would allow us to go off the shelf again , you'd say ?Industrial Designer: Um . Yeah . Um . {vocalsound} And these are three different types of {disfmarker} or two differenttypes {disfmarker} three different types of shapes you can have . Uh one is a flat one , and then more original ones are single curved one or one with a double curved . Um {vocalsound} the materials are tha there asyou can see , but uh you can't have a titanium one for a double curved ,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Titanium , the really strong metal , titanium ?Industrial Designer: uh which would be {disfmarker}Yeah ,Marketing: Is it not also it's expensive ?Industrial Designer: and light . Uh , i think so as well , yeah .Project Manager: Um . Um .Industrial Designer: They make mountain bikes out of that , don't they . So it'sreally light as well .Project Manager: Curious . Um , I don't know if you'd be able to off the top of your head or not , the single curved and double curved , would you be able to give an example ?Industrial Designer: Um. {vocalsound} T yeah .Project Manager: Um could you maybe draw something ? I you don't doesn't have to be perfect , it's just 'cause I'm not quite sure if I understand the difference between the two .IndustrialDesigner: Uh . Well for a curved , well I was thinking to {disfmarker} f for to sit in your {disfmarker} the palm of your hand . Uh maybe like this , with the uh joy pad here . Joystick here . And maybe um an okaybutton around here , so that the thumb can uh use it quite easily . Um I don't exactly {vocalsound} {disfmarker} Double curved . It probably means {disfmarker} this is probably double curved . Uh whereas a singlecurved would be like that . I guess . Or not necessarily .Project Manager: So it might literally just be {disfmarker}Marketing: Two curves {gap} .Project Manager: okay .Industrial Designer: Yeah like that . Whereas thisis two curves . Um {vocalsound} so I guess that's what they mean by uh double curve .Project Manager: Alright .Industrial Designer: Um which obviously {disfmarker} it looks better than the single curve , but uh youcan't have it in titanium , which is uh a nice material . {vocalsound} UhProject Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: and for the buttons , um it can have the scroll wheel which they use in mouses for com P_C_s . Uh butum it requires a more expensive chip to use , and if you wanna use L_C_D_ it's even more expensive . So you have to decide , there's trade-offs there . Um {vocalsound} if you want the buttons to be {disfmarker} ohyeah , if you have a double curve uh control and it's rubber , then you have these rubber buttons as well . But {vocalsound} you're gonna ha I reckon you're gonna have to have uh key a number keypad anyway for theamount of channels these days . You wouldn't want to just have to scroll through all the channels to get to the one you want . You wanna enter just the number of it , if you know it . So um I reckon we're gonna have tohave a number keypad anyway . Do you think ?Project Manager: Okay , that was definitely something we can talk about . Um so you've got a little bit about the the chip that we might require as well ?IndustrialDesigner: Yeah . So , depends where gonna spend the money if you want the f fancy L_C_D_ display .Project Manager: Um , do you have any idea so far , like when we're saying that we'd need an advanced chip for anL_C_D_ , does that in shoot the cost up by a drastic amount ? Or ?Marketing: Need an advanced chip for the L_C_D_ . Is that {disfmarker} did I {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well I think compared to say just pressing{gap} buttons .Industrial Designer: Yep .Marketing: Advanced , like three eight six advance .Project Manager: {gap} if you press a button that sends a certain transmission through the infra-red , whereas I think ifwe're controlling the L_C_D_ we definitely require a much more powerful chip . Just compared to the chip you would use for pushing buttons I think is the the point being made .Marketing: Okay . Okay , sure .UserInterface: Mm .Project Manager: If I've not over-stepped . Yeah ?Industrial Designer: Yeah iProject Manager: Okay , um should I go on , or go back ?Industrial Designer: Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm ,if we only have twelve Pounds fifty , twelve Euros , not even twelve Pounds . Twelve Euros , what's that , like eight pounds or something like that , nine Pounds ?Project Manager: Well we'd also be relying on the um thebulk buying in producement and such . I assume .Marketing: Okay , that's good point .Project Manager: We have to look into the costs of those . So , sorry .Industrial Designer: Uh the previous slides just explain what'sin the internal components of the uh remote control . If you go to the one before that uh so it just says what it does , translate the key press into an infra-red signal and this is received by the T_V_ . Uh the chip justneeds to detect the signal or detect the key press and then uh it'll send it to the tr the amplifier .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: And uh then the next slide just shows how the uh copper wires uh interactwith the buttons , the rubber buttons , uh to uh get sent to the chip . So that's just how the control works inside . Um we have to decide on what buttons we're gonna use .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer:{gap} .Project Manager: Um . {gap} . So in the information that you've been supplied , how feasible would you say that the idea of using an L_C_D_ looks ?Industrial Designer: Um {disfmarker} I think we can do it if{vocalsound} uh we use conventional batteries and not have solar cells or kinetic . Um and then maybe use single curved uh case . Because we might need it to be curved for the uh thumb to use the joyst joystickeasily . Um and then you'll need the advanced chip obviously for the L_C_D_ .Project Manager: Um I mean that sounds like quite a good requirement to me . Um conventional battery would seem to make sense .UserInterface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Um I'm not sure if there's any cost differences between single and double curved and I'm {disfmarker} I don't know about anybody else , but plastic or rubber as a traditional formof casing would seem to be a good way forward ? {gap} .User Interface: Mm . Um I'm actually gonna be bold and go oo go straight for rubber um for reasons I'll go into uh in more detail .Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: I also have a preference for rubber .Project Manager: Okay , well um {disfmarker}Marketing: Based on my research .Project Manager: Yeah , well will we move on to user interface , and {disfmarker}UserInterface: {gap} .Project Manager: yeah ? Um sorry ,User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: as long as {disfmarker} were you ? Yeah . Okay .Industrial Designer: Yep I'm finished .Project Manager: Um {gap} and d d dinterface concept .User Interface: Yep . Now I'm gonna have to work between the uh the slides and the uh {vocalsound} and the white boardProject Manager: Yeah .User Interface: 'cause I actually I have some fairlyconcrete things this time . Uh um I was given a an H_T_M_L_ file giving um various ideas from uh from other previous remote control designs , and pretty much decided to just dump them all . I wasn't very impressedby them and they didn't seem to re uh nothing I saw seemed to meet the sorts of design specifications that we're going for today . Um so what I ra rather than looking at other remotes , uh ra oomp be better to simplylook at the human hand . Um and try and f um and try and figure out a way of laying out the elements we've already decided on , um so that if r a if {vocalsound} so that the finger is e each finger or thumb is whereverit needs to be already . Um so uh next slide , if you please . Um and what we've basically decided on was the the um the joy uh the joystick , two function buttons and the L_C_D_ , just keep it paired down to theabsolute minimum . I don't actually think we need the um the numeric keypad because if you m because one of the menus that we could have available um {vocalsound} v via via the L_C_D_ is one where you scrollthrough channels , so if there's something f {vocalsound} and be bear in mind since this isn't meant to work for umMarketing: {gap} digital .User Interface: f f f {vocalsound} for di for digital or um or for {vocalsound}or for cable , whatever ,Industrial Designer: Ah , okay .User Interface: you're basically looking at four or five terrestrial channels , and then um your V_C_ uh and then the channel through your V_C_R_ and or D_V_D_player . And or um {gap} box . So it's not {vocalsound} I'm not really excessively concerned about that . You must have two two modes , basic mode , where um the joystick's uh left right {vocalsound} left right forchannels , up down for volume , um and the uh uh and the menu mode for uh further functions . Um now the reason I was particularly interested in using rubber for this is that if we're going to have a highly ergonomicdesign , um it needs to be ergonomic for left or right handed people . Um , so youProject Manager: Can I just jump in slightly there ?User Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: That would suggest the double curveddesign's probably going to be most appropriate , then .User Interface: Yes , absolutely .Project Manager: {gap} okay .User Interface: Um , basi {vocalsound} basically what I {vocalsound} basically what the{vocalsound} what {gap} be having um , I would say , the the whole thing articulated at two points , so that if you if you're handing it from a lef uh left or right handed user you can adjust it so that the um the L_C_{vocalsound} the L_C_D_ and the uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} The joystick would be in the right place . And {vocalsound} also this is {gap} a rather nicer de uh design gimmick that the {vocalsound} the um youknow the whole thing you know {vocalsound} it should have sort of organic feel to itProject Manager: Mm .User Interface: that it should be , you know , soft to touch and can be moved around all nice . Um okayProjectManager: Okay .User Interface: on to {vocalsound} on to the next uh to the next slide .Project Manager: Um , yeah . Just to let you know we'll probably be quite tight for time as well ,User Interface: Okay .ProjectManager: because I think you've probably got a lot you'd like to say , I guess .User Interface: Yeah , 'kay basically um {vocalsound} {disfmarker} I can add pretty pictures to this . The um {disfmarker} Assuming thehand {vocalsound} the hand to be in about sort of this position , um {gap} hol uh holding the remote , the um the joystick unit should rest over the uh the joint of the f of the uh four finger so that it's directly accessiblefor the thumb . Um and it would need t there would need to be a {disfmarker} it would need to be articulated just below that so that it could be switched around for uh left or right handed users . So . You then have agrip section that can be more or less the same irrespective of handedness . You just have big {vocalsound} two big buttons that cover most of the area so it can {vocalsound} in the upper part , one for the four finger ,one for the middle finger . Um , and that {disfmarker}Marketing: Is this the joystick ?User Interface: Th {vocalsound} this part here is the joystick . This would be the actual grip . Probably where you'd want to havethe battery as well .Marketing: Okay .User Interface: That would be probably the bulkiest part . And you then have , at the uh at the bottom , the L_C_D_ , and this would need to be articulated as well . And basicallyI'd want this to rest here , right at the base of the wrist . So it would fit just nicely in the hand . And again , this part could be rotated , so it can {disfmarker} {vocalsound} So {vocalsound} so so that it can be adjustedto either left or right handed user . Um {disfmarker} So the t uh the top function button in basic mode would be the on off switch and menu mode would be the enter button . And then the bottom function buttonsswitches between between modes . Um now programming it {vocalsound} actually thi this is one thing I've found with um the replacement remote control . Programming them can be a right pain . So I thought th thesimplest way around that would be to have um a cable to connect it to the computer some {vocalsound} some fair iv {gap} fairly fairly simple software on the computer just so that you {disfmarker} on your {gap}computer just so that you could um pr {vocalsound} program it at a rather {vocalsound} in a rather more comfortable interface . And you could download programs for it from uh for uh T_V_s from all sort of mainmanufacturers . Um though you {disfmarker} i it would be necessary to have uh have a m uh have a {vocalsound} ha have a mode for programming it without the computer , uh just in case there are there are stillpeople left out there who don't have them yet . Um . But uh . Yeah .Marketing: Mm .User Interface: That's that's my idea .Project Manager: Okay . {vocalsound} Excellent , right . Um {vocalsound} uh .Marketing: Mm .'Kay .Project Manager: File open .Marketing: {vocalsound} We go .Project Manager: Trend watching .Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay . {vocalsound} So uh to gather my research , two basic methods . We compared uhwhether people want the remote control to do a lot of stuff or they want it to look cool . And then we we research uh fashion trends in Europe , what's what's the new black ,Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay.Marketing: you know , as it goes . {vocalsound} Next slide please . Uh we found , in order of importance , people want the remote control to look cool more than they want it to to be cool . As in they want it to do a lotof good s they want it to look like it does a lot , and if it does do a lot that's a bonus , but they don't care so much , you know . {vocalsound} They want it to be {disfmarker} that's sounds a bit like a contradiction .Technology technical {disfmarker} technologically innovative . People want it to be that , but s still they care more about the way it looks than what it does . So like the interface is really important . {vocalsound} Andeasy to use , it it just so happens that uh from the second point to the third point is twice as important {disfmarker} I mean the second point is twice as important as the third point . People want it {disfmarker} I is ithas to be cooler than easy to use , you know , if it has the newest features , even if it's difficult to use , {gap} prefer it to have the newest features . And if it's easy to use that's a bonus . {vocalsound} The fashion ,now this is seems a bit odd to me , but fruit and veg is the new is the new black for furniture , for clothes , for shoes . How that relates to a remote control I don't know .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: But I Isee {vocalsound} I come on to that in the next in the next slide . Spongy . I've als I've been saying everything's the new black . Well spongy's the new black as well . So we have the choice between rubber and plastic .If it's the type of rubber that you can squeeze , you know , it's spongy , then {disfmarker} can I skip the rest ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Oh yeah , I forgot to mention that . The uh rubber material is the type ofstress ball material , not just normal rubber .Marketing: Okay . Okay , soIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Forgot to say that .Marketing: kinda spongy material .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: So um so mypersonal opinion ? {vocalsound} Um we want something fancy and techni technologically innovative , obviously . But what we what we need is something that looks like it's from the future that looks cool , that's that'sdifferent , you know , that's {disfmarker} everyone has a white remote control , black remote control , you need something cool . Like , titanium is cool but it's expensive . And maybe it's a bit of overkill for a remotecontrol . Um now the fruit and veg options , either we we go in that direction or we stay totally away from it . Um {vocalsound} I mean the research did come up with fruit and veg , so maybe it is important for{disfmarker} it's the up to the interface guy . So if we stay away from it , s you know stay away from it , but if we're gonna go along with it then it doesn't necessarily have to be like an apple or something like that , ora kiwi fruit . It could be something like , I say potato peeler but I'm sure you guys have a have a much cooler idea than I do . So I think cool is the key . {vocalsound} Few questions about a spongy remote control . I'venever seen one before . I've seen plastic remote controls . I think maybe they were {disfmarker} I don't know , back in the day when they first came up with remote controls , they had a reason for it beingProjectManager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: sturdy , you know . For being strong and sturdy . So um if we want something strong and sturdy , I say stay with plastic or titanium , but if we go with spongy , we can stress that youcan drop this as many times as you want , it doesn't matter , it's spongy material , it's not gonna break , you know . I just don't know how the L_E_D_ and the lights are gonna fit into a spongy material because it's notgonna be completely squeezable . So how do things fit it ? And if we are gonna use spongy , we can say it's long lasting , you know it's damage resistant and stuff like that , so . So just to summarise , people want stuffthat's cool , that's that looks like it's cool , and if it is cool then that's a bonus {gap} doesn't have to be um people like fruit and veg . We can either go down that alley or stay totally away from it . People like spongy"}
{"doc_id":"doc_145","qid":"","text":"PhD E: OK .Professor B: OK , so {pause} We {disfmarker} we had a meeting with , uh {disfmarker} with Hynek , um , in {disfmarker} in which , uh , uh , Sunil and Stephane , uh {vocalsound} summarized where theywere and {disfmarker} and , uh , talked about where we were gonna go . So that {disfmarker} that happened sort of mid - week . Uh .PhD E: D did {disfmarker} did you guys get your code pushed together ?PhD D:Oh , yeah . Yeah . It 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it was updated yesterday ,PhD E: Cool .PhD D: right ?PhD A: Yeah .PhD D: Yeah .PhD A: You probably received the mail .PhD E: Oh , right , Isaw {disfmarker} I saw the note .PhD A: Yeah .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor B: What was the update ?PhD A: What was the update ? So there is th then {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} all the new features that go in.Professor B: Yeah .PhD A: The , um , noise suppression , the re - synthesis of speech after suppression . These are the {disfmarker}PhD E: Is the , um {disfmarker} the CVS mechanism working {pause} well ?PhD A:Yeah .PhD E: Are {disfmarker} are people , uh , up at OGI grabbing code uh , via that ?PhD D: Uh , I don't think {disfmarker} I don't think {disfmarker}PhD E: Or {disfmarker} ?PhD A: I don't know if they use it , but.PhD D: Yeah , I I don't think anybody up there is like {pause} working on it right now .PhD E: Uh - huh . Mmm .Professor B: I think it more likely that what it means is that when Sunil is up there {vocalsound} he willgrab it .PhD D: Yeah . Yeah . So right now nobody 's working on Aurora there .PhD E: Yeah .Professor B: They 're {disfmarker} Yeah . They 're working on a different task .PhD E: I see . I see .PhD D: Yeah .PhD E: OK.Professor B: But what 'll happen is {disfmarker} is he 'll go back up there and , uh , Pratibha will come back from {disfmarker} from , uh , the east coast . Uh .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor B: And , uh {disfmarker}and {disfmarker} and I guess actually , uh , after Eurospeech for a little bit , uh , he 'll go up there too . So , actually everybody {vocalsound} who 's working on it {comment} will be up there for at least a little while .So they 'll remotely access it {vocalsound} from there .PhD E: So has {disfmarker} Has anybody tried remotely accessing the CVS using , uh , uh , SSH ?Professor B: Yeah . PhD A: Um , I don't know if Hari did that or{disfmarker} You dPhD D: I {comment} can actually do it today . I mean , I can just log into {disfmarker}PhD E: Have you tried it yet ?PhD D: No , I didn't . So I I 'll try it today .PhD E: OK .Professor B: Good idea.PhD A: Actually I {disfmarker} I tried wh while {disfmarker} when I installed the {pause} repository , I tried from Belgium .Professor B: Yeah .PhD D: Yeah .PhD A: I logged in there and I tried {pause} to import{disfmarker}PhD E: Yeah ? It worked good ?PhD A: Yeah , it works .PhD E: Oh , good !PhD A: But it 's {disfmarker} So , right now it 's the mechanism with SSH .PhD D: Oh .PhD E: Great !PhD A: I don't {pause} s Ididn't set up {disfmarker} You can also set up a CVS server {pause} on a new port . It 's like well {pause} uh , a main server , or d You can do a CVS server .PhD E: Yeah . Right . Then that 's using the CVS passwordmechanism and all that ,PhD A: But . Yeah , right .PhD E: right ?PhD A: But I didn't do that because I was not sure about {pause} security problems . I {disfmarker} I would have to {disfmarker}PhD E: So w when youcame in from Belgian {disfmarker} {comment} Belgium , using SSH , uh , was it asking you for your own {pause} password into ICSI ? So if yo you can only do that if you have an account at ICSI ?PhD A: Right . Yeah.PhD E: OK .PhD A: Yeah .PhD E: Cuz there is an {disfmarker} a way to set up anonymous CVS right ?PhD A: Yeah , you ha in this way you ca you have to set up a CVS server but then , yeah , you can access it .PhD E:So that {disfmarker} Oh , OK .PhD A: you {disfmarker} you can set up priorities .PhD E: So the anonymous mechanism {disfmarker}PhD A: You can access them and mostly if you {disfmarker} if y the set the server isset up like this .PhD E: OK . Because a lot of the open source stuff works with anonymous CVS and I 'm just wondering {disfmarker} Uh , I mean , for our transcripts we may want to do that .PhD A: Mm - hmm.Professor B: Yeah .PhD E: Uh .Professor B: Yeah , for this stuff I don't think we 're {pause} quite up to that . I mean , we 're still so much in development .PhD E: Mm - hmm . Yeah ,Professor B: We want to have justthe insiders .PhD E: yeah , yeah . Oh , I wasn't suggesting for this . I 'm {pause} thinking of the Meeting Recorder {comment} stuffProfessor B: Yeah .PhD E: but . Yeah . OK . Cool .Professor B: Yeah . So , uh{disfmarker}PhD E: What 's new ?Professor B: Well , I mean , I think maybe the thing to me might be {disfmarker} I me I 'm sure you 've just been working on {disfmarker} on , uh , details of that since the meeting ,right ? And so {disfmarker}PhD A: Mmm , since the meeting , well , I {disfmarker} I 've been {disfmarker} I 've been train training a new VAD and a new {pause} feature net .Professor B: That was {disfmarker} thatwas Tuesday . OK .PhD A: So they should be ready . Um .Professor B: But I guess maybe the thing {disfmarker} since you weren't {disfmarker} yo you guys weren't at that {disfmarker} that meeting , might be just{disfmarker} just to , um , sort of recap , uh , the {disfmarker} the conclusions of the meeting .PhD A: Mm - hmm .PhD E: Oh , great .Professor B: So .PhD E: You 're talking about the meeting with Hynek ?Professor B:Yeah . Cuz that was sort of , uh {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we 'd sort of been working up to that , that {disfmarker} that , uh , he would come here this week and {disfmarker} and we would sort of{disfmarker}PhD E: Uh - huh .Professor B: Since he 's going out of town like now , and I 'm going out town in a couple weeks , uh , and time is marching , sort of , given all the mu many wonderful things we could beworking on , what {disfmarker} what will we actually focus on ?PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor B: And , uh {disfmarker} and what do we freeze ? And , you know , what do we {disfmarker} ? So , um . I mean , this{pause} software that these guys created was certainly a {disfmarker} a key part . So then there 's something central and there aren't at least a bunch of different versions going off in {disfmarker} in ways that{pause} differ {pause} trivially . Uh , um , and , um ,PhD E: Yeah . That 's {disfmarker} that 's nice .Professor B: and then within that , I guess the idea was to freeze a certain set of options for now , to run it , uh , aparticular way , and decide on what things are gonna be experimented with , as opposed to just experimenting with everything . So keep a certain set of things constant . So , um . Uh , maybe describe roughly what{disfmarker} what we are keeping constant for now , or {disfmarker} ?PhD A: Yeah . Well . So we 've been working like six weeks on {disfmarker} on the noise compensation and we end up with something that seemsreasonable . Um .PhD E: Are you gonna use {disfmarker} which of the two techniques ?PhD A: So finally it 's {disfmarker} it 's , um , Wiener filtering on FFT bins . And it uses , uh , two steps , smoothing of the transferfunction , the first step , that 's along time , which use recursion . And {vocalsound} after this step there is a further smoothing along frequency , which use a sliding window of twenty FFT bins . Mmm . And , uh{disfmarker}PhD E: So this is on the {disfmarker} uh , before any mel scaling has been done ?PhD A: Yeah , yeah .PhD E: This is {disfmarker}PhD A: It was {disfmarker}Professor B: This {disfmarker} this smoothingis done on the estimate , um , of what you 're going to subtract ? Or on the thing that has already had something subtracted ?PhD A: Yeah . Uh , {vocalsound} it 's on the transfer function . So {disfmarker}Professor B:Oh , it 's on the transfer function for the Wiener filter .PhD A: Yeah .Professor B: Yeah , OK .PhD A: Yeah , so basically we tried {vocalsound} different configuration within this idea . We tried u u applying this on melbands , having spectral subtraction instead of wiener filtering . Um . Well , finally we end up with {pause} this configuration that works , uh , quite well . So we are going to fix this for the moment and work on the otheraspects of {vocalsound} the whole system .PhD E: Mm - hmm .PhD A: So {disfmarker}Professor B: Actually , let me int eh , Dave isn't here to talk about it , but let me just interject . This module , in principle , i I mean, you would know whether it 's {vocalsound} true in fact , is somewhat independent from the rest of it . I mean , because you {disfmarker} you re - synthesize speech , right ?PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor B: So , um .Uh , well you don't {disfmarker} I guess you don't re - synthesize speech , but you could {disfmarker}PhD A: We {disfmarker} we do not foProfessor B: Uh , but you could .PhD A: Well {disfmarker} well , we do , butwe don't {disfmarker} don't re - synthesize . In {disfmarker} in the program we don't re - synthesize and then re - analyze once again . We just use the clean FFT bins .Professor B: But you have a re - synthesizedthing that you {disfmarker} that 's an {disfmarker} an option here .PhD A: This is an option that {disfmarker} then you can {disfmarker} Yeah .Professor B: Yeah , I gu I guess my point is that , um , i in some of thework he 's doing in reverberation , one of the things that we 're finding is that , uh , it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} for the {disfmarker} for an artificial situation , we can just deal with the reverberation and histechniques work really well . But for the real situation uh , problem is , is that you don't just have reverberation , you have reverberation in noise . And if you don't include that in the model , it doesn't work very well .So in fact it might be a very nice thing to do , to just take the noise removal part of it and put that in front of what he 's looking at . And , uh , generate new files or whatever , and {disfmarker} and , uh , uh{disfmarker} and then do the reverberation part .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor B: So it 's {disfmarker}PhD D: Mmm .Professor B: Anyway .PhD E: So Dave hasn't {pause} tried that yet ?Professor B: No , no . He 's{disfmarker} I mean , ePhD E: I guess he 's busy with {disfmarker}Professor B: Yeah , prelims , right .Grad C: Pre - prelim hell .Professor B: Yeah .PhD E: Yeah .Professor B: So .PhD E: Yeah .Professor B: Uh , but{disfmarker} but , you know , that 'll {disfmarker} uh , it 's clear that we , uh {disfmarker} we are not {disfmarker} with the real case that we 're looking at , we can't just look at reverberation in isolation because theinteraction between that and noise is {disfmarker} is considerable . And that 's I mean , in the past we 've looked at , uh , and this is hard enough , the interaction between channel effects and {disfmarker} and , uh{disfmarker} and additive noise , uh , so convolutional effects and {disfmarker} and additive effects . And that 's hard enough . I mean , I don't think we really {disfmarker} I mean , we 're trying to deal with that . In asense that 's what we 're trying to deal with in this Aurora task . And we have , uh , the , uh , uh , LDA stuff that in principle is doing something about convolutional effects . And we have the noise suppression that 'sdoing something about noise . Uh , even that 's hard enough . And {disfmarker} and the on - line normalization as well , in that s category . i i There 's all these interactions between these two and that 's part of whythese guys had to work so hard on {disfmarker} on juggling everything around . But now when you throw in the reverberation , it 's even worse , because not only do you have these effects , but you also have somelong time effects . And , um , so Dave has something which , uh , is doing some nice things under some conditions with {disfmarker} with long time effects but when it 's {disfmarker} when there 's noise there too , it 's{disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's pretty hard . So we have to start {disfmarker} Since any {disfmarker} almost any real situation is gonna have {disfmarker} uh , where you have the microphone distant , is going tohave both things , we {disfmarker} we actually have to think about both at the same time .PhD E: Hmm .Professor B: So , um {disfmarker} So there 's this noise suppression thing , which is sort of worked out and then, uh , maybe you should just continue telling what {disfmarker} what else is in the {disfmarker} the form we have .PhD A: Yeah , well , {vocalsound} the , um , the other parts of the system are the {disfmarker} theblocks that were already present before and that we did not modify a lot .Professor B: So that 's {disfmarker} again , that {disfmarker} that 's the Wiener filtering , followed by , uh {disfmarker} uh , that 's done at theFFT level . Then {disfmarker}PhD A: Yeah , th then the mel filter bank ,Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD A: then the log operation ,Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD A: Mmm .Professor B: The {disfmarker} the {disfmarker}the filtering is done in the frequency domain ?PhD A: Yeah .Professor B: Yeah , OK . And then the mel and then the log , and then thePhD A: Then the LDA filter ,Professor B: LDA filter .PhD A: mmm , then thedownsampling ,Professor B: And then uh downsample ,PhD A: DCT ,Professor B: DCT ,PhD A: then , um , on - line normalization ,Professor B: on - line norm ,PhD A: followed by {pause} upsampling . Then finally , wecompute delta and we put the neural network also .Professor B: Right , and then in parallel with {disfmarker} an {disfmarker} a neural net . And then following neural net , some {disfmarker} probably someorthogonalization .PhD A: Yeah .Professor B: Uh {disfmarker} Um .PhD A: And finally frame dropping , which um , {vocalsound} would be a neural network also , used for estimated silence probabilities . And the inputof this neural network would be somewhere between log {pause} mel bands or one of the earlier stages of the processing .Professor B: Mm - hmm . So that 's sort of {disfmarker} most of this stuff is {disfmarker} yeah, is operating parallel with this other stuff .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor B: Yeah . So the things that we , um , uh , I guess we sort of {disfmarker} uh , There 's {disfmarker} there 's some , uh , neat ideas for{vocalsound} V A So , I mean , in {disfmarker} I think there 's sort of like {disfmarker} There 's a bunch of tuning things to improve stuff . There 's questions about {pause} various places where there 's an exponent ,if it 's the right exponent , or {pause} ways that we 're estimating noise , that we can improve estimating noise . And there 's gonna be a host of those . But structurally it seemed like the things {disfmarker} the mainthings that {disfmarker} that we brought up that , uh , are {disfmarker} are gonna need to get worked on seriously are , uh , uh , a {disfmarker} {vocalsound} a significantly better VAD , uh , putting the neural net on, um , which , you know , we haven't been doing anything with , the , uh , neural net at the end there , and , uh , the , uh , {vocalsound} opening up the second front . Uh .PhD E: The other half of the channel?Professor B: Yeah , yeah , I mean , cuz we {disfmarker} we have {disfmarker} we have , uh , uh , half the {disfmarker} the , uh , data rate that they allow .PhD E: That what you mean ?Professor B: And , uh , so theinitial thing which came from , uh , the meeting that we had down south was , uh , that , um , we 'll initially just put in a mel spectrum as the second one . It 's , you know , {pause} cheap , easy . Uh . There 's aquestion about exactly how we do it . We probably will go to something better later , but the initial thing is that cepstra and spectra behave differently ,PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor B: so . Um , {comment} I think TonyRobinson used to do {disfmarker} I was saying this before . I think he used to do mel , uh , spectra and mel cepstra . He used them as alternate features . Put them together .PhD E: Hmm .Professor B: Uh .PhD E: So ifyou took the system the way it is now , the way it 's fro you 're gonna freeze it , and it ran it on the last evaluation , where it would it be ?PhD A: Mm - hmm . It , uh ,PhD E: In terms of ranking ?PhD A: Ri - right now it's second .PhD D: Second . PhD A: Um .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor B: Although you {disfmarker} you know , you haven't tested it actually on the German and Danish , have you ?PhD A: No , we didn't . No , um.Professor B: Yeah .PhD E: So on the ones that you did test it on it would have been second ?Professor B: Yeah . Would it {disfmarker} I mean {disfmarker} But {disfmarker} When you 're saying second , you 'recomparing to the numbers that the , uh {disfmarker} that the best system before got on , uh {disfmarker} also without German and Danish ?PhD A: Yeah , yeah .Professor B: Yeah , OK .PhD D: And th the rankingactually didn't change after the German and Danish . So , yeah .Professor B: Well ranking didn't before , but I 'm just asking where this is to where theirs was without the German and Danish ,PhD A: Yeah .PhD D: Yeah.PhD A: Mmm .PhD D: Yeah .Professor B: right ?PhD D: Yeah , yeah .Professor B: So .PhD E: Where {disfmarker} where {disfmarker} where were we actually on the last test ?Professor B: Oh , we were also espessentially second , although there were {disfmarker} there were {disfmarker} I mean , we had a couple systems and they had a couple systems . And so , I guess by that {pause} we were third , but I mean , therewere two systems that were pretty close , that came from the same place .PhD E: Uh - huh . I see . OK .Professor B: Uh , so institutionally we were {disfmarker} {vocalsound} we were second , with , uh , the third{disfmarker} third system .PhD E: We 're {disfmarker} so this second that you 're saying now is system - wide second ?Professor B: See {disfmarker} Uh , no I think it 's also institutional , isn't it ?PhD E: Stillinstitutionally second ?Professor B: Right ? I mean , I think both of their systems probably {disfmarker}PhD A: Uh , we are between their two systems . SoProfessor B: Oh , are we ?PhD A: I {disfmarker} It is a triumph.PhD D: Yeah .Professor B: Is it ?PhD D: Their {disfmarker} their first system is fifty - four point something . And , uh , we are fifty - three point something .PhD A: But everything is {pause} within the range of one{disfmarker} one percent .PhD D: And their second system is also fifty - three point something . Yeah , one percent .Professor B: Yeah , so {disfmarker} so basically they 're all {disfmarker} they 're all pretty close.PhD E: Oh , wow !PhD A: So .PhD E: That 's very close .PhD D: Yeah .PhD E: Yeah .Professor B: And {disfmarker} and , {vocalsound} um , you know , in some sense we 're all doing fairly similar things . Uh , I mean ,one could argue about the LDA and so forth but I {disfmarker} I think , you know , in a lot of ways we 're doing very similar things . But what {disfmarker} what {disfmarker}PhD E: So how did they fill up this{disfmarker} all these {disfmarker} these bits ? I mean , if we 're uProfessor B: Um , why are we using half ? Well , so you could {disfmarker} you cPhD E: Yeah . Or how are they using more than half , I guess maybeis what I {disfmarker}Professor B: Yeah , so I {disfmarker} I think {disfmarker} uh , you guys are closer to it than me , so correct me if I 'm wrong , but I {disfmarker} I think that what 's going on is that in{disfmarker} in both cases , some kind of normalization is done to deal with convola convolutional effects . Uh , they have some cepstral {pause} modification ,PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor B: right ? In our case wehave a couple things . We have the on - line normalization and then we have the LDA RASTA . And {pause} they seem to comple complement each other enough and be different enough that they both seem to help{disfmarker} help us . But in any event , they 're both doing the same sort of thing . But there 's one difference . The LDA RASTA , uh , throws away high modulation frequencies . And they 're not doing that .PhD E: Soth So {disfmarker}Professor B: So that if you throw away high modulation frequencies , then you can downsample .Grad C: Get down .PhD E: I see . I see .Professor B: So {disfmarker}PhD E: So what if you didn't{disfmarker} So do you explicitly downsample then ? Do we explicitly downsample ?Professor B: Yeah .PhD A: Yeah .PhD E: And what if we didn't do that ? Would we get worse performance ?PhD A: Um {pause} Yeah ,not better , not worse .Professor B: I think it doesn't affect it , does it ?PhD E: I see . OK .Professor B: Yeah . So I think the thing is , since we 're not evidently throwing away useful information , let 's try to put in someuseful information .PhD E: Yeah . Yeah .Professor B: And , uh , so I {disfmarker} you know , we {disfmarker} we 've found in a lot of ways for quite a while that having a second stream uh , helps a lot . So that 's{disfmarker} that 's put in , and you know , it may even end up with mel spectrum even though I 'm saying I think we could do much better , just because it 's simple .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor B: Um . And you"}
{"doc_id":"doc_146","qid":"","text":"PhD B: We 're , I mean {pause} we {disfmarker} We didn't have a house before .Professor D: Yeah . Yeah .PhD E: OK .Professor D: We 're on again ? OK .PhD A: Mm - hmm . That is really great .Grad H: Yeah , so if{pause} uh {disfmarker} {pause} So if anyone hasn't signed the consent form , please do so .PhD A: That 's terrific .PhD B: Oh , yeah !Professor D: OKGrad H: The new consent form . The new and improved consentform .PhD A: Now you won't be able to walk or ride your bike , huh ?Professor D: OK .Postdoc F: Uh .PhD B: Right .Professor D: OK .Grad H: And uh , shall I go ahead and do some digits ?Professor D: Uh , we weregonna do that at the end , remember ?Grad H: OK , whatever you want .Professor D: Yeah . Just {disfmarker} just to be consistent , from here on in at least , that {disfmarker} {pause} that we 'll do it at the end .PhDB: The new consent form .Grad H: It 's uh {disfmarker} {pause} Yeah , it doesn't matter . OK .Professor D: OK Um Well , it ju I mean it might be that someone here has to go ,Postdoc F: Testing , one , two , three.Professor D: and {disfmarker} Right ? That was {disfmarker} that was sort of the point . So , uh {pause} I had asked actually anybody who had any ideas for an agenda {pause} to send it to me and no one did . So,Grad H: So we all forgot .Professor D: Uh ,Postdoc F: From last time I wanted to {disfmarker} Uh {pause} {pause} The {disfmarker} An iss uh {pause} one topic from last time .Professor D: Right , s OK , so one itemfor an agenda is uh {pause} Jane has some uh {vocalsound} uh some research to talk about , research issues . Um {pause} and {pause} Uh , Adam has some short research issues .Grad H: And I have some {pause}short research issues .Professor D: Um , I have a {pause} list of things that I think were done over the last three months I was supposed to {vocalsound} {vocalsound} send off , uh {pause} and , um {pause} I{disfmarker} I sent a note about it to uh {disfmarker} to Adam and Jane but I think I 'll just run through it {pause} also and see if someone thinks it 's inaccurate or {pause} uh insufficient .PhD A: A list that you haveto send off to who ?Professor D: Uh , to uh uh , IBM .PhD A: Oh .Professor D: OK . They 're , you know {disfmarker}PhD E: Professor D: So . Um , So , uh {pause} so , I 'll go through that . Um , {pause} And ,Anything else ? {pause} anyone wants to talk about ?PhD A: What about the , um {disfmarker} your trip , yesterday ?Professor D: No . OK . Um . Sort of off - topic I guess .PhD A: Oh , OK .Professor D: Cuz that 's{pause} Cuz that was all {disfmarker} all about the , uh {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I can chat with you about that {pause} off - line . That 's another thing . Um , And , Anything else ? Nothing else ?Uh , there 's a {disfmarker} I mean , there is a {disfmarker} {pause} a , um {pause} uh {pause} telephone call tomorrow , {pause} which will be a conference call {pause} that some of us are involved in {pause} foruh a possible proposal . Um , we 'll talk {disfmarker} we 'll talk about it next week if {disfmarker} if something {disfmarker}Grad H: Do you want me to {pause} be there for that ? I noticed you C C ' ed me , but Iwasn't actually a recipient . I didn't quite know what to make of that .Professor D: Uh Well , we 'll talk {disfmarker} talk about that after our meeting . OK .Grad H: OK .Professor D: Uh , OK . So it sounds like the{disfmarker} the three main things that we have to talk about are , uh this list , uh Jane and {disfmarker} Jane and Adam have some research items , and , other than that , anything , {pause} as usual , {pause}anything goes beyond that . OK , uh , Jane , since {disfmarker} since you were sort of cut off last time why don't we start with yours , make sure we get to it .Postdoc F: OK , it 's {disfmarker} it 's very {pause} eh{disfmarker} it 's {pause} very brief , I mean {disfmarker} just let me {disfmarker} just hand these out . Oops .Grad H: Is this the same as the email or different ?PhD C: Thanks .Postdoc F: It 's slightly different . I{disfmarker} {pause} basically the same .Grad H: OK .PhD A: Same idea ?Postdoc F: But , same idea . So , if you 've looked at this you 've seen it before , so {pause} Basically , {vocalsound} um {pause} as you know, uh {pause} part of the encoding {pause} includes a mark that indicates {pause} an overlap . It 's not indicated {pause} with , um {pause} uh , tight precision , it 's just indicated that {disfmarker} OK , so , It 'sindicated to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} so the people know {pause} what parts of sp which {disfmarker} which stretches of speech were in the clear , versus being overlapped by others . So , I {pause} used thismark and , um {pause} and , uh {pause} uh , {pause} divided the {disfmarker} I wrote a script {pause} which divides things into individual minutes , {pause} of which we ended up with forty {pause} five , and alittle bit . And , uh {pause} you know , minute zero , of course , is the first minute up to {pause} sixty seconds .PhD C: OK .Postdoc F: And , um {pause} What you can see is the number of overlaps {pause} and then{pause} to the right , {pause} whether they involve two speakers , three speakers , or more than three speakers . And , {pause} um {pause} and , what I was looking for sp sp specifically was the question of {pause}whether they 're distributed evenly throughout or whether they 're {pause} bursts of them . Um . And {pause} it looked to me as though {disfmarker} uh , you know {disfmarker} y this is just {disfmarker} {pause} eh{disfmarker} eh , this would {disfmarker} this is not statistically {pause} verified , {pause} but it {pause} did look to me as though there are bursts throughout , rather than being {pause} localized to a particularregion . The part down there , where there 's the maximum number of {disfmarker} {pause} of , um {pause} overlaps is an area where we were discussing {pause} {vocalsound} whether or not it would be useful toindi to s to {pause} code {pause} stress , {pause} uh , sentence stress {pause} as possible indication of , uh {pause} information retrieval . So it 's like , {pause} you know , rather , {pause} lively discussion there.Professor D: What was {disfmarker} what 's the {disfmarker} the parenthesized stuff {pause} that says , like {disfmarker} e the first one that says six overlaps and then two point eight ?Postdoc F: Oh , th{vocalsound} {pause} That 's the per cent .Professor D: Mmm .Postdoc F: So , six is , uh {pause} two point eight percent {pause} of the total number of overlaps in the {pause} session .PhD E: Mm - hmm .ProfessorD: Ah .PhD C: Mm - hmm .Postdoc F: At the very end , this is when people were , {pause} you know , packing up to go basically , there 's {pause} this final stuff , I think we {disfmarker} {pause} I don't rememberwhere the digits {pause} fell . I 'd have to look at that . But {pause} the final three there are no overlaps at all . And {pause} couple times there {pause} are not .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Postdoc F: So , i it seems like itgoes through bursts {pause} but , um {pause} that 's kind of it .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Postdoc F: Now , {pause} Another question is {pause} is there {disfmarker} are there {pause} individual differences in whether you're likely to be overlapped with or to overlap with others . And , again {pause} I want to emphasize this is just one {pause} particular {pause} um {disfmarker} {pause} one particular meeting , and also there 's beenno statistical testing of it all , but {pause} I , um {pause} I took the coding of {pause} the {disfmarker} I , you know , my {disfmarker} I had this script {pause} figure out , um {pause} who {pause} was the firstspeaker , who was the second speaker involved in a two - person overlap , I didn't look at the ones involving three or more . And , um {pause} {pause} this is how it breaks down in the individual cells of {pause} whotended to be overlapping most often with who {disfmarker} who else , and {pause} if you look at the marginal totals , which is the ones on the right side and across the bottom , you get {pause} the totals for anindividual . So , {vocalsound} um {pause} If you {pause} look at the bottom , those are the , um {pause} numbers of overlaps in which {pause} um {pause} Adam was involved as the person doing the overlappingand if you look {disfmarker} I 'm sorry , but you 're o alphabetical , that 's why I 'm choosing you And then if you look across the right , {pause} then {pause} that 's where he was the {pause} person who was the spfirst speaker in the pair {pause} and got overlap overlapped with by somebody .PhD A: Hmm !PhD E: Mm - hmm .Postdoc F: And , {pause} then if you look down in the summary table , {pause} then you see that , um{pause} th they 're differences in {pause} whether a person got overlapped with or {pause} overlapped by .Grad H: Is this uh {pause} just raw counts or is it {disfmarker}Postdoc F: Raw counts .Grad H: So it wouldbe interesting to see how much each person spoke .PhD B: Mm - hmm .PhD C: Yeah .PhD E: Yeah {vocalsound} YeahPostdoc F: Yes , very true {disfmarker} very trueGrad H: Normalized to how much{disfmarker}Postdoc F: it would be good to normalize with respect to that . Now on the table I did {pause} take one step toward , uh {pause} away from the raw frequencies by putting , {pause} uh {pause}percentages . So that the percentage of time {pause} of the {disfmarker} of the times that a person spoke , {pause} what percentage {pause} eh , w so . Of the times a person spoke and furthermore was involved in atwo two - person overlap , {vocalsound} {vocalsound} what percentage of the time were they the overlapper and what percent of the time were they th the overlappee ? And there , it looks like you see somedifferences , um , {pause} that some people tend to be overlapped {pause} with more often than they 're overlapped , but , of course , uh i e {vocalsound} this is just one meeting , {pause} uh {pause} there 's nostatistical testing involved , and that would be {pause} required for a {disfmarker} for a finding {pause} of {pause} any {pause} kind of {pause} scientific {pause} reliability .Professor D: S so , i it would bestatistically incorrect to conclude from this that Adam talked too much or something .Grad H: No {disfmarker} no actually , that would be actually statistically correct ,Professor D: Yeah , yeah .Postdoc F: No , no , no.PhD E: Yeah , yeah . Yeah , yeah .Grad H: butPostdoc F: Yeah , that 's right .Professor D: Yeah . Excuse me .Postdoc F: That 's right . And I 'm {pause} you know , I 'm {disfmarker} I don't see a point of singlingpeople out ,Professor D: B I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I rather enjoyed it , but {disfmarker} but thisPostdoc F: now , this is a case where obviously {disfmarker}PhD A: But the numbers speak for themselves .PhD E:He 's {disfmarker} Yeah , yeah , yeah .Postdoc F: Well , {vocalsound} you know , it 's like {disfmarker} I 'm not {disfmarker} I 'm not saying on the tape who did {pause} better or worseGrad H: Yes , that 's right , soyou don't nee OK .Professor D: Sure .Postdoc F: because {pause} I don't think that it 's {disfmarker} I {pause} you know , and {disfmarker} and th here 's a case where of course , human subjects people would say besure that you anonymize the results , {pause} and {disfmarker} and , so , might as well do this .Professor D: Yeah .Grad H: Yeah , when {disfmarker} this is what {disfmarker} This is actually {disfmarker} when Janesent this email first , is what caused me to start thinking about anonymizing the data .Postdoc F: Well , fair enough . Fair enough .Professor D: Yeah .Postdoc F: And actually , {pause} you know , the point is not aboutan individual , it 's the point about {pause} tendencies toward {pause} you know , different styles , different speaker styles .Professor D: Oh sure .Postdoc F: And {pause} it would be , you know {pause} of course ,{pause} there 's also the question of what type of overlap was this , and w what were they , and i and I {disfmarker} and I know that I can distinguish at least three types and , probably more , I mean , the{vocalsound} general {pause} {vocalsound} cultural idea which w uh , the conversation analysts originally started with in the seventies was that we have this {vocalsound} strict model where politeness involves thatyou let the person finish th before you start talking , and {pause} and you know , I mean , {pause} w we know that {disfmarker} {pause} an and they 've loosened up on that too s in the intervening time , that{pause} that that 's {disfmarker} that 's viewed as being {pause} a culturally - relative thing , I mean , {pause} that you have the high - involvement style from the East Coast where people {vocalsound} will overlapoften as an indication of interest in what the other person is saying . AndGrad H: Uh - huh .PhD B: Exactly !Postdoc F: Yeah , exactly !PhD E: YeahPostdoc F: Well , there you go . Fine , that 's alright , that 's OK . And{disfmarker} and , {pause} you know , in contrast , so Deborah {disfmarker} d and also Deborah Tannen 's {pause} thesis she talked about differences of these types , {pause} that they 're just different styles , and it's um {pause} you {disfmarker} you can't impose a model of {disfmarker} {pause} there {disfmarker} of the ideal being no overlaps , and {pause} you know , conversational analysts also agree with that , so it 's{pause} now , universally {pause} a ag agreed with . And {disfmarker} and , als I mean , I can't say universally , but anyway , the people who used to say it was strict , {pause} um {pause} now , uh {pause} don't . Imean they {disfmarker} they {pause} also {pause} {vocalsound} you know , uh {pause} uh , ack acknowledge the influence of {pause} sub of subcultural norms and {pause} cross - cultural norms and things . So ,um Then it beco {pause} though {disfmarker} so {disfmarker} just {disfmarker} just superficially to give {pause} um {pause} a couple ideas of the types of overlaps involved , I have at the bottom several that Inoticed . So , {pause} {vocalsound} uh , there are backchannels , like what Adam just did now and , um {pause} {vocalsound} um , anticipating the end of a question and {pause} simply answering it earlier , andthere are several of those in this {disfmarker} in these data where {disfmarker}PhD B: Mm - hmm .Postdoc F: because we 're {pause} people who 've talked to each other , um {pause} we know {pause} basicallywhat the topic is , what the possibilities are and w and we 've spoken with each other so we know basically what the other person 's style is likely to be and so {vocalsound} and t there are a number of places wheresomeone just answered early . No problem . And places {pause} also which I thought were interesting , where two or more people gave exactly th the same answer in unison {disfmarker} different words of course butyou know , the {disfmarker} basically , {pause} you know everyone 's saying \" yes \" or {disfmarker} you know , or ev even more sp specific than that . So , uh , the point is that , um {pause} {vocalsound} overlap 'snot necessarily a bad thing and that it would be im {pause} i useful to subdivide these further and see if there are individual differences in styles with respect to the types involved . And that 's all I wanted to say onthat , {pause} unless people have questions .Professor D: Well , of course th the biggest , {pause} um {pause} result here , which is one we 've {disfmarker} {pause} we 've talked about many times and isn't new tous , but which I think would be interesting to show someone who isn't familiar with this {vocalsound} {pause} is just the sheer number of overlaps .Grad H: Yep .Professor D: That {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} Right? {pause} that {disfmarker} that , umPhD E: Yes , yes !Postdoc F: Oh , OK {disfmarker} interesting .PhD E: Yeah .Professor D: here 's a relatively short meeting , it 's a forty {disfmarker} {pause} forty plus minute{pause} {vocalsound} meeting , and not only were there two hundred and fifteen overlaps {vocalsound} {pause} but , {pause} uh I think there 's one {disfmarker} {pause} one minute there where there{disfmarker} where {disfmarker} where there wasn't any overlap ?Grad H: Hundred ninety - seven .Professor D: I mean , it 's {disfmarker} {pause} {vocalsound} uh throughout this thing ?PhD A: It 'd be interesting{disfmarker}Professor D: It 's {disfmarker} You have {disfmarker}Postdoc F: Well , at the bottom , you have the bottom three .PhD E: Yeah .Grad H: S n are {disfmarker}Postdoc F: So four {disfmarker} four minutesall together with none {disfmarker} none .PhD A: But it wProfessor D: Oh , so the bottom three did have s stuff going on ? There was speech ?Postdoc F: Yes , uh - huh . Yeah . But just no overlaps .Professor D: OK , soif {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} this {disfmarker}PhD A: It 'd be interesting to see what the total amount of time is in the overlaps , versus {disfmarker}Postdoc F: Yes , exactly and that 's {disfmarker} that 's whereJose 's pro project comes in .PhD E: Yeah , yeah , I h I have this that infor I have th that information now .PhD G: I was about to ask {disfmarker}PhD A: Yeah .PhD C: Yeah .PhD B: Hmm .Professor D: Oh , about howmuch is it ?PhD E: The {disfmarker} the duration of eh {disfmarker} of each of the overlaps .Professor D: O oh , what 's {disfmarker} what 's the {disfmarker} what 's the average {pause} length ?PhD E: M I{disfmarker} I haven't averaged it now but , uh {pause} I {disfmarker} I will , uh I will do the {disfmarker} the study of the {disfmarker} {pause} with the {disfmarker} with the program with the {disfmarker} uh ,the different , uh {pause} the , nnn , {pause} distribution of the duration of the overlaps .Professor D: You don't know ? OK , you {disfmarker} you don you don't have a feeling for roughly how {pause} much it is ?Yeah .PhD E: mmm , {pause} Because the {disfmarker} the uh , @ @ is @ @ .Professor D: Yeah .PhD E: The duration is , uh {pause} the variation {disfmarker} the variation of the duration is uh , very big on thedatPhD A: Mm - hmm .Postdoc F: I suspect that it will also differ , {pause} depending on the type of overlap {pause} involved .PhD E: but eh {disfmarker}Professor D: Oh , I 'm sure .PhD E: Yeah .Postdoc F: Sobackchannels will be very briefPhD E: Because , on your surface eh {pause} a bit of zone of overlapping with the duration eh , overlapped and another very very short .Postdoc F: and {disfmarker}Professor D: Yeah .Yeah .PhD E: Uh , i probably it 's very difficult to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} because the {disfmarker} the overlap is , uh on is only the {disfmarker} in the final \" S \" of the {disfmarker} of the {disfmarker} the finthe {disfmarker} the end {disfmarker} the end word of the , um {pause} previous speaker {vocalsound} with the {disfmarker} the next word of the {disfmarker} the new speaker .PhD A: Mm - hmm .PhD E: Um , Iconsidered {pause} that 's an overlap but it 's very short , it 's an \" X \" with a {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} the idea is probably , eh {pause} when eh {disfmarker} when eh , we studied th th that zone , eh {pause}{pause} eh , we h we have eh eh {pause} confusion with eh eh noise .PhD A: Mm - hmm .PhD E: With eh {pause} that fricative sounds , but uh {pause} I have new information but I have to {disfmarker} to study.Professor D: Yeah . Yeah , but I {disfmarker} I 'd {disfmarker} {vocalsound} uPhD G: Can I {disfmarker}Professor D: go ahead .Postdoc F: Yeah .PhD G: You split this by minute , um {pause} so if an overlapstraddles {pause} the boundary between two minutes , that counts towards both of those minutes .Postdoc F: Yes . Mm - hmm . Actually , um {vocalsound} um {pause} actually not . Uh , so {pause} le let 's thinkabout the case where {vocalsound} A starts speaking {pause} {vocalsound} and then B overlaps with A , {pause} and then the minute boundary happens . And let 's say that {vocalsound} after that minute boundary ,{vocalsound} um {pause} B is still speaking , {pause} and A overlaps {pause} with B , that would be a new overlap . But otherwise {pause} um , let 's say B {pause} comes to the conclusion of {disfmarker} of thatturn without {pause} anyone overlapping with him or her , in which case there would be no overlap counted in that second minute .PhD G: No , but suppose they both talk simultaneously {vocalsound} {pause} both a{disfmarker} a portion of it is in minute one and another portion of minute two .Postdoc F: OK . In that case , um {pause} my c {pause} the coding that I was using {disfmarker} {vocalsound} since we haven't ,{pause} uh {pause} incorporated Adam 's , uh {pause} coding of overlap yets , the coding of Yeah , \" yets \" is not a word . Uh {vocalsound} since we haven't incorporated Adam 's method of handling overl overlapsyet {vocalsound} um {pause} then {pause} that would have fallen through the cra cracks . It would be an underestimate of the number of overlaps because , um {pause} I wou I wouldn't be able to pick it up from the"}
{"doc_id":"doc_147","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Alright ? Alright . Thank you for coming to this third meeting of the uh uh design group . Um I think we uh made some definite progress at the last one um and come up with some interesting uh uh wsuggestions for our our new remote control . Um I'll again very quickly uh just present some notes of that meeting . Um {vocalsound} the the the problem with existing remote controls , we felt , was that they're uglyum and that people are prepared to pay a premium for something better . Um they've got lots of buttons on them that uh people don't use and find difficult to learn . Um and people lose them . And {vocalsound} We wethought that f for our our new uh uh remote control that everybody will want to rush out and buy , um {vocalsound} that we're {disfmarker} {vocalsound} we should look at speech recognition rather than r rather thanbuttons , and that if we have any buttons they should be very few of them and only for those functions that are actually identified that that people use . That {disfmarker} um {vocalsound} we want to go for uh a longlasting battery that we gua we guarantee for the life of the uh uh the product and a shape that will be instantly recognisable , A_ um as uh a trendy remote control , and and B_ as uh a Real Reaction product . So that wuh when people are uh happy with that , they will they will want to buy uh everything else from us . Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Okay . So again um , I'll {disfmarker} we'll have the three three presentations fromthe the the three of you and then uh we'll we'll make a a final a final uh decision . Um and the the decisions that we need to to make today , finally , are um what energy source we want to use , whether i it is practicalto use uh um a a a long lasting one . And uh I I think our discussion was around the fact that uh if we're gonna go for uh a long lasting power supply , then basically it's uh sealed for life and uh if anybody does manageto run one down , we'll we'll give them another one . And uh it it'll be uh , you know , prominently displayed as part of the th the advertising literature that it's um um , you know , for life , guaranteed for life . Um{vocalsound} now the the the internal chip um {disfmarker} and uh this is where I need uh uh Kate's expert adviceIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: and given that {vocalsound} th this has to to go tomarket as quickly as possible um d d do we go for a custom designed chip ? Or or do we buy one off the shelf and and programme it ourselves ? Uh I mean I'm I'm I'm n not an expert on these things , but presumably ,there must be loads of 'em already on the market that we can modify .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: But uh that that's uh that's your area of expertise . And then the uh , you know , the the overalldesign of the case uh is is is Kendra's field and uhUser Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} we we had some discussions last time as as to uh how we might goforward and we'll we'll finalise those uh da today . Um and thi this is all linked in with the the the user interface , whether we p um {vocalsound} go for voice , buttons , or or a bit of both . Uh and then uh , you know , ffor the next meeting Kate will be looking at the the the s the look , feel and design , Kendra the uh ho how the the user actually uses it and and Andrew of course the the product evaluation . And uh Kate and Kendra willbe producing a a model for us to uh to look at .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh so , if if we can have the the three presentations again please , and uh um p perhapsyou'd like to start uh k .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay . Um {disfmarker}Project Manager: Kate . Oh I'm sorry , oh sorry .Industrial Designer: Um p there we go .Project Manager: {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound} 'Kay , I'll just be talking about the components design . And {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Okay , basically I just uh looked at what exactly do remotes do . Uh basically they wait for you to press akey or give a voice command and then this is translated uh into uh light signals which are then seen by the T_V_ . Uh the materials we're gonna need to look at {disfmarker} uh the two big ones are the integratedcircuit chip and the battery and the in integrated circuit chip uh works in conjunction with a a diode transistor or resonator , uh two more resistors and a capacitor and the battery works in conjunction with a resistor anda capacitor . Um . {vocalsound} Uh basically what happens is you'll press a number or give a voice command and this creates a a connection within the the remote that allows the chip {disfmarker} the chip then sensesthis connection and produces a signal in a Morse code format . This signal's sent to the transistor which amplifies it and then sends it on to the light emitting diode and uh {disfmarker} which is then trai changed into ainfrared light which is sent to the T_V_ and sort of seen by the T_V_ and which uh changes the channels . {vocalsound} Um . Oh . {vocalsound} Uh cool . {vocalsound} Uh so as for how we should end up uh using thisin our remote uh t couple of main questions are the buttons . Uh y the fewer buttons you have , I guess the fewer internal connections and internal codes you're gonna need . Um however uh to n not have buttons or touse a voice commands instead of buttons might make these connections more difficult and uh raise the production cost . That's something we should think about . Also we have to work within the company constraints ,and the company has informed me via email that uh they're experts at pushbuttons and that seems to be the most uh cost-effective way of producing it . Um also with battery connections the company has some limitson the batteries we can use , so I was thinking perhaps a combination of solar cells with a back-up basic battery and somehow between the combination of that two we might be able to come up with something that uhwill last the the lifetime or the five to ten years and we could still keep that original idea . {vocalsound} Um we also need to look at the chips , uh v custom-designed versus off the shelf , and the custom-designed willgive us much more flexibility and enable us to incorporate the voice function that we all uh seem to have agreed upon . Um , however that's gonna cost more , but uh the off the shelf is gonna be uh cheaper and it'sgonna be {disfmarker} allow us to produce it quicker and get out there faster , but it's going to be less flexible with the features , especially things like uh voice activation , which haven't really been used much onremotes , so there's not really chips out there that would be easy to uh to convert ,Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay ,Industrial Designer: so if we were uh definitely gonna go with the the voice option we'd probablyhave to design um our own chip . {vocalsound} And that pretty much sums it up .Project Manager: so how um {disfmarker} sorry , can you uh just put that one back up again , please ? Um .Industrial Designer: Mm .Oh yep , sorry . {vocalsound} Yep .Project Manager: Uh d d d {vocalsound} okay , I mean uh inevitably a b a custom design chip is gonna be more expensive . Do we do we know uh by how much ?Industrial Designer:Mm . {vocalsound} Um I don't actually have any price information , no . {vocalsound}Project Manager: And and do we know how long it'll take to uh develop a a custom chip .Industrial Designer: Um it {disfmarker} alot longer than an off the shelf chip . Oh w yeah , we did {disfmarker} the the problem is the the the voice technology is not really highly developed ,Project Manager: Right ,Industrial Designer: it's sort of still still in anex experimental form ,Project Manager: okay .Industrial Designer: uh so it would uh {disfmarker} it's hard to predict the time . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Right , I think we need to make a a decision here . Uhgiven that the company wants this on the market quickly and cheaply ,Industrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: that would appear to uh effectively constrain us to an existing chip and thus therefore conventionalbutton technology . Um uh now before we go round everybody else , does anybody um h have any have anyti ha anything to say about that ?User Interface: I {disfmarker} I just have a question about that . Um does itmake a difference if there are just a few commands , for example if you um can pre-programme in like numbers one through ten and pre-programme say , you know , nine channels and then just use the voicerecognition to say channel one and then you've programmed in say B_B_C_ four as your channel one , as your favourite , it's like to have a certain number of favourites umIndustrial Designer: W just to to incorporatethe voice activation in it is is sorta the trick .User Interface: and that wIndustrial Designer: Once you've got the whole voice chip in there , then it's pretty much the the world {disfmarker} the the sky is your limit ,UserInterface: Okay . Then it doesn't matter . Okay .Industrial Designer: but to actually {disfmarker} the the big step is to actually get the voice activation chips in there and working .User Interface: Okay .Project Manager:Cause uh I {vocalsound} must say I find it slightly surprising given that , you know , mobile phones incorporate voice activated dialling . So uh um I meanUser Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: I d d for slightlydifferent {disfmarker} well no , I mean , it's if you you {disfmarker} speak somebody's name and it'll dial the number for you , so uh bu I mean the this this information is from {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} this is theinternal company information , is it ?Industrial Designer: Uh bits of it , yeah .Project Manager: So uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Of course mobile phones do tend to be more expensive ,Industrial Designer: Yes , aswell .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: you know , hundred and fifty pounds or something . As opposed to the twenty Euros , twenty five Euros .Project Manager: Yeah , mm true , again but if it's withoutany without any uh p price informations that's uh difficult to uhIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: uh decide .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound} Also lots of mobile phones have got a lot oftechnology in them , not just that , so .Industrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: Yeah , that's that's right . It's like {disfmarker} it's it's {disfmarker} you can't {disfmarker} 'cause mobile phones are expensive , youcan't say it's the voice recognition bit that is .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: But we don't know . Um . {vocalsound} I mean uh I su i I mean if {disfmarker} given that the um the technology isnot well developed and and given that it's it's never been done before , um th th the double risk , uh perhaps we ought to uh stick to uh to buttons , since the last thing we want to do is present a product that doesn'twork . Um . Thoughts ?User Interface: Well , another thought I {disfmarker}Marketing: Would {disfmarker}User Interface: oh , sorry , go ahead .Marketing: Oh I was just gonna say mayb maybe it sh like um{disfmarker} maybe we can like cut corners somewhere else to bring in over cost .Project Manager: {vocalsound} I mean do w do we think that the voice technology is fundamental to the project ?Industrial Designer:Uh it's fundament well I mean I guess it it's something we've discussed uh since the the sort of the beginning , so I th I think in in our in our minds it's it's fundamental , but I don't know that the uh the upper echelonsof the company would necessarily agree with that , so I think you have to {disfmarker}Project Manager: I mean I think we {disfmarker} {gap}User Interface: Oh yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}ProjectManager: Mm .Industrial Designer: Hm .User Interface: {gap} Okay .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Well , I kinda think if we're gonna have the voice recognition for part of it , then maybe we shouldhave it for the whole thing .Project Manager: Yeah , I I I I I think that's uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: And we've been talking about it the whole time .Project Manager: Yeah , yeah .IndustrialDesigner: Mm , mm .User Interface: Anyway , I'm I'm incli kinda inclined to say that we should just go for it .Project Manager: Mm , right , okay .Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: Uh yeah , {gap} it's the secondmost important aspect to users that the device should be technologically innovative .Project Manager: {gap}User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: From uh my presentation show , so .Project Manager: Yeah , it should be{disfmarker}Marketing: Uh technologically innovative .Project Manager: Right , okay , so .Industrial Designer: No ,Project Manager: Fine . Okay .Industrial Designer: that sounds good . Mm .Project Manager: I it willhave voice recognition um uhIndustrial Designer: Mm . Cool .User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: if if that means uh if that means we can't afford buttons but I mean b b {vocalsound} {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound} Um {disfmarker}Project Manager: second question , do we need the five buttons for channel change , up down , {vocalsound} volume up down and on off , just as a a backup or just so thatpeople can uh j j just sit there pressing buttons ?User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah , I I would say we do , yeah .User Interface: I think so .Project Manager: Right . Okay . Sorry , d did you want to sayanything ? No ?Industrial Designer: Uh nope ,Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: that was it , that was it .Project Manager: Shall we move rapidly on to uh Kendra ?Industrial Designer: Okay .User Interface:Okay .Project Manager: Uh um ra rapidly move the cable over .User Interface: {vocalsound} Let's see .Project Manager: Mm . Oh good .User Interface: Oh . Yes . Is it gonna work ?Project Manager: Mm yeah ,IndustrialDesigner: Yeah , it's thinking about it .Project Manager: it'll get there . Yep .User Interface: Okay . Okay ,Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: so I did some research on the internet and um {vocalsound} what{vocalsound} {disfmarker} you know , the interf user interface are just aspects that are seen by users , um commands and mechanisms for the operation , and there're just kind of a variety of choices . Um findings , soa lot of times they tend to look clutteredProject Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: and these were just a couple examples of um different kinds that are a little bit more unusual .Project Manager: Mm , yeah .UserInterface: There're some special ones available , like this one right here ,Project Manager: Uh-huh .User Interface: which is marketed towards children , um different designs ,Project Manager: Alright .User Interface:and one of the things that n we need to watch out for is a V_ in volume because people some {vocalsound} Bring a little picture of what I thought ours could look like {vocalsound} .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}User Interface: So just kind of minimise the clutter ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: avoid too many buttons and also um {vocalsound} one of the things that people have used is a slide button, like you have on a mouse , that possibly we could use that on the sides for volume , for example , have the slide button on the side ,Marketing: Mm .User Interface: and then you can pre-programme the channels , thevoice recognition and then the voice response sample locator .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Mm yeah . Sorry y y yeah , {vocalsound} if I can interrupt you . Well d {vocalsound} p 'kay , do you wanna say anythingabout um slide controls ?Industrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: I mean I think the reason everybody uses pushbuttons is that they're they're si simple , cheap and reliable .Industrial Designer: Uh {disfmarker}{vocalsound} Uh I think they're they're about the same cost really . I I mean , I think it's just sort of {disfmarker} the the {vocalsound} {disfmarker} there's a lot of slide buttons out there . I think it's pretty much thesame sort of connection . Mm yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay , fair enough , fine .User Interface: Just because I n for example if I'm using a mouse I like to be able to slide it up and downIndustrialDesigner: Mm .User Interface: so I thought it might be good for volume to just be able to kind of roll it and then have the up and downProject Manager: Yeah . Good , good .User Interface: and then the{disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: this is my great little drawing .Project Manager: So three three {disfmarker} there's three buttons on a slider .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager:Three buttons , channel up channel up down and {disfmarker}User Interface: Y yes , yes .Marketing: Well , if you g if you if you got a channel up down , we can have a slider in that as well . Because if it {disfmarker} ifyou noUser Interface: {gap}Marketing: if you notice on the thing it it kind of like has got kind of {disfmarker} if you you know it s kind of like sticks , if you know what I mean , up like one unit , if you see what I mean.Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: So it kinda goes up one , then y like you can keep rolling it up , but it's like like like like a cog or something .Project Manager: Uh-huh .Marketing: So youkinda take it up one at a time .Project Manager: Okay . Um {disfmarker}User Interface: The only advantage I was thinking of to having the buttons , like the buttons on one side for the channel , and then the slider isthat if you're just holding in your hand , and you pick it up , it's easy to n s know , okay , this is just the volume and this is the channel .Marketing: DProject Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: {vocalsound} Oh .ProjectManager: This one on the one side and one {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Uh you could you could {vocalsound} as l as like a mouse you could {disfmarker}Project Manager: yeah . Okay .Industrial Designer: Yeyeah , 'cause I've definitely picked up remotes and like meant to change the channel and turn the volume , or vice versa ,Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: so it'dbe kinda good to have them be {disfmarker} feel completely different . You'd know what you were fiddling with .Project Manager: Yeah ,Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: or {disfmarker} yeah uh th th the{disfmarker} I mean thi this is what the {disfmarker}User Interface: That was {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah , like the shape of it almost like a mouse , with a {disfmarker}Project Manager: we have to come up with isthe the actual shape that people can ins instantly pick it up and and know know uh know what it's going to do .Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay , so we we're looking at sliders forboth a {disfmarker} uh volume and channel changeUser Interface: Um wellProject Manager: of one sort .User Interface: I was thinking kind of just for the volume ,Project Manager: Just for the volume , uh .IndustrialDesigner: Mm .User Interface: but what what do you guys think ?Marketing: Dep I dunno if it {disfmarker}User Interface: We could {disfmarker}Marketing: depending on the final shape of it , 'cause you could havelike , I dunno , {gap} it looks like you can c control the volume with your thumb ,User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah , yeah .Marketing: and then you could control the buttons with your fingers .Project Manager: Fingers,Industrial Designer: Yeah ,Project Manager: yeah .Industrial Designer: 'cause if {disfmarker} yeah , in that kinda position the fingers would be better for pressing and the {disfmarker} that for rolling ,Project Manager:It {disfmarker} yeah , I mean it it it seems to me that uh it uh it al also has the advantage that it it {disfmarker} the two are clearly different ,User Interface: BIndustrial Designer: just the way it would{disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Mm yeah , yeah , yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: um that there's no no possibility of uh confusing the two .Marketing: Oh yeah , yeah .ProjectManager: So okay . Right so uhUser Interface: I'm just gonna pass this along .Project Manager: that's {disfmarker} sorry is that that all you want to say at the moUser Interface: Yes .Project Manager: okay , fine.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm right .Marketing: {gap}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Here we go .Project Manager:Right .Marketing: {vocalsound} Uh yeah , this is my report on trend watching .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: The data's come off internet uh from executive summary for us on the top three things wanted bythe consumer . And we got reports from Paris , Milan on new fashions .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: And uh the most important aspect is the l the look {disfmarker} it has to look fancy , look andfeelProject Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: uh instead of the current functional look and feel . This is a st well I was gonna say yeah twice as important as the second aspect ,Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: which is"}
{"doc_id":"doc_148","qid":"","text":"Lynne Neagle AM: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee this morning. I've received apologies for absence from Siân Gwenllian, and I'm very pleased to welcomeHelen Mary Jones, who is substituting for Siân today. Can I ask whether Members want to declare any interests, please? Can I just, then, place on record that I have got a son who was about to do A-levels, so isaffected by the exam decision? We'll move on, then, to our substantive item today, which is an evidence session with the Welsh Government around the impact of the coronavirus pandemic on education in Wales. I'mvery pleased to welcome Kirsty Williams, Minister for Education; Steve Davies, who is director of the education directorate; Huw Morris, who is the group director, skills, higher education and lifelong learning; and RobOrford, who is the chief scientific adviser for health. Thank you all for coming. We know that this is a really difficult and pressurised time for everyone, and we appreciate your attendance. Minister, I understand youwanted to make an opening statement today.Kirsty Williams AM: Yes, if that's okay, Chair. As you know, it's not usually my practice to do that, but I think it is important today. COVID-19 coronavirus is one of the mostsignificant issues that the Welsh Government and the people of Wales have dealt with in recent times. Dealing with the impacts of this pandemic is extremely challenging. Things are changing on an hourly basis, and wehave to make decisions quickly to ensure public safety. But I would like to assure you that our aim, and my aim, and my main concern as the education Minister is to protect all staff and pupils in our schools and othereducational settings. But we also have a duty to ensure continuing and continuity of education. Public health is clearly the priority here, but that does not change our belief that no child should miss out on any education,unless absolutely necessary. So, the decision to close all schools from tomorrow for statutory education provision was not taken lightly, but I believe it was necessary, given the advice and recommendations that we hadreceived from a public health perspective and the situation that was developing on the ground. From next week, schools will have a new purpose. They will help support those most in need, including people involved inthe immediate response to the coronavirus outbreak, and I'm working with my colleagues in the Cabinet, with Government officials and our partners in local government to develop and finalise these plans. The keyareas that we're looking at are supporting and safeguarding the vulnerable and ensuring continuity of learning. This includes all of those who benefit from free school meals and children with additional learning needs. Ican confirm that all maintained schools in Wales already have access to a range of digital tools that can support distance learning through the world-class Hwb digital learning platform, including virtual classrooms andvideo-conferencing facilities. A guide on what tools are available and how schools can use them has been developed and is being promoted widely. Yesterday, I announced that, whilst there are no easy choices, we haveagreed that the best way forward is not to proceed with the summer exam series. Learners due to sit these exams will be awarded a fair grade to recognise their work, drawing on a range of information that is available,and I will announce further details shortly, but I felt it necessary to give early certainty to students and to staff. I would like to put on record my thanks to everyone working in education settings for the hard work thatthey have put in over the last few months in dealing with the virus and ensuring that pupils have been able to continue to learn. We need to continue to do this work together, as we face the continuing challenges posedby the coronavirus. Diolch yn fawr.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you very much, Minister, for that statement. We'll go to questions from Members now, and I've got some questions from Dawn Bowden.Dawn Bowden AM:Thank you, Chair. Can I thank you, Kirsty, for your statement and the really difficult decisions that you've been having to make? You've already indicated in your statement this morning that these decisions are nottaken lightly, and we understand that that is the case across Government. So, thank you for what you've been doing. You've outlined a little bit further there in your statement to us this morning about the new purpose.I take from what you're saying that you haven't really developed that yet in terms of exactly what that is going to look like. You've talked about the children of key workers, free school meals, additional learning needs.Is there anything else you can tell us about that at the moment and how you might staff the schools in those particular areas?Kirsty Williams AM: Thank you, Dawn. So, you're absolutely right, our priority now is tooperationalise, with colleagues in local government and schools, a practical response. And I have to say, we're working to timescales that I would have hoped to have avoided, but given the fact that we're having tomake these decisions quite quickly, I hope that you will understand that perhaps where we start on Monday might change when we have more time and more opportunities to develop programmes going forward. Stevewill be able to give you more details of the practical work that has already been going on, but our expectation will be that schools will be playing an important part in providing safe and secure places for children of thoseon the front-line response to dealing with the coronavirus to attend, and work is already under way with local authorities and individual schools on what that will look like for the emergency situation on Monday. Ourother priority is indeed free school meals, and, again, where we eventually end up might be a different place to where we are on Monday. Again, we're responding to the emergency situation that there will be familiesthat were expecting a free school meal on Monday, and, again, individual schools and local authorities are developing those plans at pace to be able to provide an emergency response as we work out a longer term planto deal with the situation. The same thing also goes for additional learning needs, and attending to the needs of that particular group of learners. So, those conversations began a few days ago. I had the opportunity tomeet with the First Minister and Andrew Morgan, the leader of the Welsh Local Government Association, yesterday to talk about what local government could do, and what they were already doing. Those plans in someplaces are already quite developed, and are now working at pace, but I hope you will understand that where we start on Monday is the emergency response, and that work will develop as we go forward. But, Steve,perhaps you could—? Because Steve was the one making all those phone calls and doing the practical operational stuff, rather than me. Steve.Steve Davies: In short, the new purpose is to meet the needs of particulargroups of children and young people. In some cases, some of the response to supporting free school meals, in the short term in particular, we may use the schools as part of that, and I'm certain that will happen insome cases. The second area is looking at how we support the children of key workers. Now, there is still work to be done on identifying exactly the categories of key workers, but I think it's really encouraging that inmy discussions yesterday—I spoke with all 22 directors of education, and the examples we're picking up in their work with schools is they're already ahead of the curve in working with schools. So, schools haveidentified the number of children with health workers. It will grow, and we will need to look at that range. Then, the third area is vulnerable children. They're vulnerable sometimes in terms of education other than atschool, vulnerable in terms of mental health, and for those children, as well as having an experience that we want to be planned, some have compared it to a snow day, particularly on Monday, when you're puttingsomething together in the short term, but it will not be a formal curriculum that those children would normally go through. So, the range of activities—some will be focused on educational activities, some will be cultural,some will be sporting, and that plan will be developed on the basis of the age range of children, which in some cases may go from extremely young children up to those at the age of 16 in our all-through schools, butthere will be a planned set of activities to cater for those children. What we are doing currently—I have staff back at Cathays Park who are in touch and working with directors of education to ensure that schools over thenext two days will have been able to identify, at least at the earlier stage, in terms of health workers, the type and numbers of people. There are already schools who have informed us, and local authorities, of theirplans for these activities to be starting next week, which is quite amazing, actually, given where we are. But we are expecting, and we're writing to schools today, that during the course of next week, headteachers to bein schools, and with their staff, taking into consideration the health guidance as to which staff should or should not be in, and in that period from next Monday through the two-week period, to Easter, we expect staff tobe both planning for delivery post Easter, but also, as I said, building on and reflecting the good practice that's already in place for schools that have engaged in activities, and I'm sure a number of them will be invitingand enabling those children to come in on Monday. So, Monday will be a challenge for some, and not all will be delivering it, but we will be working so that we can get as much as possible delivered for those groups overthe next two weeks, and particularly to have resilient programmes post Easter for the groups of children in those three categories that I said.Dawn Bowden AM: Those that have been identified. Can I just clarify onething? One of the identified vulnerable groups would clearly be children on the at-risk register. They would be included.Steve Davies: Yes, definitely. Vulnerable children, yes.Kirsty Williams AM: In our discussions, wehave asked local government to be working with the social services departments and individual schools to identify those children who may be in that situation. We know that, for some children, being at school is part oftheir safeguarding arrangements, and obviously we will need to be able to respond to those needs.Steve Davies: I wrote specifically yesterday to all directors of education to be assured that, for those children, theregister is up to date and the plans are in place. I'm working with Albert Heaney my colleague, the director for social services, who is meeting with the 22 directors of social services today to look to ensure that we arejoined up in ensuring none of these children fall through the gap.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. I've got a supplementary from Hefin, and then Suzy.Hefin David AM: A very quick and simple question: how are you going tocommunicate this to parents? There's a bigger picture and it's changing all the time, as you said. The Welsh Government have a route to communication. The most helpful thing I've seen is that Public Health Wales havea single website with information regarding the wider issue of the virus. How will this then be cascaded to schools, because there's obviously a time lag? So, have you considered how this is going to be communicateddirectly to parents?Kirsty Williams AM: We're using all of our platforms of communication to get these messages across. So, we're using the more informal methods of communication, but are relying on a systematicapproach via individual directors and through to individual schools. Welsh Government already has a dedicated website page with all of the relevant information about coronavirus. We're looking, as quickly as we can, tohave a frequently asked education questions page that we can update. Understandably, people are communicating to us on Twitter asking questions. It is impossible for the communications team here to be able torespond individually to every single person that is sending Facebook messages and sending tweets, so the best way we can do that is to collate the types of questions people are asking and then to be able to have afrequently updated question and answer page to try to respond to that. With regard to parents, for instance, we're aware of schools that have already sent a questionnaire out last night to parents saying, 'Do youconsider yourself to be a key worker? Do you work in the NHS? Please let us know by tomorrow so we can put arrangements in place for your children.' So, schools are already taking the initiative and having thoseconversations with parents about what their needs will be. And, as I said, Hefin, will it be perfect on Monday? No. It won't be perfect by Monday, because we're working to such constrained timescales. But we willcontinue to build that resilience. We also have to think about systems that look at what might the epidemic do and have systems of resilience that may work next week, given the situation we find ourselves in withpublic health advice at the moment. But that public health advice may change. Therefore, have we got a system that will be resilient in those circumstances? These are some of the challenges that we're having tograpple with. So, as I said, what happens on Monday might look very different to where we are if schools are still off in May. So, I hope people will understand that we are working in those kinds of scenarios.LynneNeagle AM: Suzy, you had a supplementary.Suzy Davies AM: Yes, just on this question of vulnerable children, I'm just wondering how much discretion teachers are going to have in including individual children who maynot be obviously under social services' care or on a risk register or whatever. Teachers know their pupils and, very sensitively, they could include people who may not be obviously in need.Kirsty Williams AM: We wouldabsolutely respect the professional judgment of individual headteachers to be able to have those conversations with their directors. As you said, quite rightly, they are the individuals who know their children best andknow which children, perhaps, will need this extra support. We will put no constraints on those teachers trying to do that work.Suzy Davies AM: Okay. The second part of my question is: there were going to be Easterholidays anyway, weren't there? What was going to happen about free-school-meal children during that period? Has that gone out of the window now, the normal holiday provision for children? Because that's not therenormally, is it, except in separate—Kirsty Williams AM: We do find ourselves in a strange situation. My understanding is what we're trying to work to is that we would have ongoing provision and not to make somestrange, 'You get this for two weeks, then you don't get it for two weeks, and then you're back in.' My understanding is, in England, that is what they're going to do. We're trying to create a system where it will beseamless and it will not necessarily matter that two of those weeks were formally holidays. It won't matter to those nurses and doctors who will need to be in work during those weeks. We're trying to create a systemthat will run uniformly. That's our policy goal at the moment.Lynne Neagle AM: Helen Mary.Helen Mary Jones AM: Just briefly, building on Suzy's question, one particular group of children and young people that I hopewill be eligible to be included in the potentially vulnerable category is young carers. For some of them, they may not be able to come into school because the people they're caring for may have to be excluded because oftheir conditions. But I think that, for other young carers, coming to school is an absolute lifeline, because they're working at home. So, I don't know if it's appropriate for you to specifically mention those in discussionswith local authorities, but it's a group of young people who, again, may not be vulnerable in other ways, but because of their caring responsibilities they may need school. And the other group—and this, I suppose, goesback to Suzy's point about teachers knowing their young people—is the children who may be living in situations where they're at risk of witnessing domestic abuse. Again, these may very well not be children who are inany formal contact with social services, but being at home may be really not a good place for them to be. So, again, I'd put in an appeal for that to be something that perhaps can be raised with schools. If a teacher isworried about what a child's circumstances are like at home, whether they can be, as you said, Kirsty, included as one of the—. They may not be formally identified, but if the teacher knows that they're at risk, or thereis an instinct that they're at risk, they might be able to be included in children who are allowed to take advantage of this special provision you're making at this difficult time.Kirsty Williams AM: We will certainly raisethose issues. We have to do that in the context of what is deliverable, and we also have to do that in the context of the public health advice that we are receiving as well. One of the reasons why schools are closing is tohelp manage this disease. We know that the ability for school closures to make a contribution to that diminishes if we have significant children in school still. So, we will take these issues into consideration, butremembering this is part of an epidemic mitigation plan. Rob is the expert on that, not me.Rob Orford: Yes, absolutely. This is a rapidly-evolving problem and the scale is something that we haven't seen in 100 years,and so we're having to evolve and iterate things as we go. Next week, I think, will look different to this week. So, it kind of is what it is. We've all got a role to play, and schools certainly have a significant role to play inbreaking those chains of transmission. Areas that we're worried about are displacement activities. If we close the schools, then people collect at others' houses. We need to send a really clear message that you're allpart of the solution, and the things that you do by distancing yourselves from your friends and your family are really important for us to get on top of this outbreak. The more that we can do that, the easier it will bewhen we go forward.Helen Mary Jones AM: I'm sure that that's true, but I'm sure that we wouldn't be wanting a child who's in a very pressured environment with perhaps a very difficult relationship between mum anddad—. It may be very important for those children to be out of that for some of the time. Hopefully, we're talking about relatively small numbers, but I just—.Kirsty Williams AM: We will look at vulnerability in a holisticway.Lynne Neagle AM: Janet, you had a supplementary.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you, Chair, and good morning, Minister, and your team. Can I just put on record my thanks for all that you're having to endureat this moment? I think it's fair to say you have the support of Assembly Members and, indeed, our communities. Now, the question I have: if Cylch Meithrin have to close, where will they get money from to pay theirstaff? Because, currently, thankfully, there's support for businesses.Lynne Neagle AM: Janet, we're not doing Cylch Meithrin at the moment; we are sticking with schools, as we discussed in advance. Dawn.DawnBowden AM: Can I just get some clarity, Steve, around what you were saying in terms of next week? Because I think the practical applications of this—and I understand that you don't know all of this yet, I understandthat—the practical applications are what is coming to us, obviously, with constituents saying, 'Well, what's going to happen to that?' Just so that I can be clear, are you saying that, at this stage, every headteacher willbe in school on Monday, as will all their staff?Steve Davies: Within the scope of the guidance in terms of their health, the expectation—and this will be conveyed in letters by the Minister today, to be made clear—is thatthey are closing for the majority of pupils, but our expectation within the guidance is that the headteacher with their staff will be coming in; for some to start the delivery of what we just described, but that will probablybe small numbers, but more importantly to plan to ensure that, after the formal Easter period, which is school holidays, the schools are geared to cater for the range of pupils that we've been discussing.Dawn BowdenAM: So, would you anticipate—again, I know this is all a bit 'if and when', and it depends on the changing nature of the advice, but from what you're saying, I think we can probably anticipate that, as we go forward,there will probably be fewer schools opening and operable—that we may be moving those children on to fewer sites. Would that possibly—?Kirsty Williams AM: That is a potential. So, we already know that one of ourlocal authorities already has identified a strategic pattern of schools that they will want to operate in this way. That local authority has already chosen those locations, and is already having communications with how"}
{"doc_id":"doc_149","qid":"","text":"Marketing: Right first time this time . Nu There we go . It's not that complicated , but I get it wrong every time . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay so we are just waiting for Matthew {gap} .Marketing: ForMatthew , yep .Project Manager: Mm . Uh {disfmarker} So I suggest we start the meeting uh without Matthew uhMarketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Mm 'kay .Project Manager: he's uh obviously late for somereason . {vocalsound} Good . Um . Today uh we will uh talk about uh conceptual design . I hope uh you both did some uh some work uh concerning a uh conceptual design .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Umthis will be the uh agenda for the meeting uh {gap} . Uh I will take some minutes uh again .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Um we will have the presentations of y of you different team members ,Marketing:Yep .Industrial Designer: Yep .Project Manager: and then try to come to decisions uh about the concepts uh you have presented . So and that uh will uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: wehave some uh forty minutes uh to complete this uh .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: So um who has the fir do you ha Anna do you have your presentation ready ?Marketing: I have a presentation , I'm justmaking this {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah I think {disfmarker} {vocalsound} yeah the {disfmarker} Matthew it is it's important that Matthew yeah is hereProject Manager: Okay . AhIndustrial Designer:because it's really a a team uh project with a teamProject Manager: there is Matthew .Industrial Designer: and if someone is not here then we cannot {disfmarker}User Interface: Sorry .Industrial Designer: but it's okay{vocalsound} it's good . {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay I'll just email you this file , my presentation .Project Manager: So . Good . Do {gap} presentation ready ?Marketing: Mm-hmm I'm just emailing it to you .ProjectManager: Oh okay .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: So did you manage uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah I sent you the slides , you didn't see them ?ProjectManager: Oh yes I see him , good yes .User Interface: Okay . {gap} .Project Manager: No .User Interface: {vocalsound} So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} 'Kay .Marketing: Okay it should've gone through to you .UserInterface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay mm yes I have it .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm-hmm . Okay so this is just a presentation on uh the trends that we're gonna use to make the product standout from the rest of the products out there at the moment . Um can I just put this on ? So we have to work out a way {disfmarker} what we can do with our product to make it stand out and make it so people wannabuy it . Um . This is {disfmarker} to do this I will not remove my microphone . {vocalsound} We basically used um some focus group surveys which I went through with you last time , the main results of that , and umsome research on the current design um and fashion trends that are out there at the moment um ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: and as part of this {disfmarker} The important aspects that came outwere things that we've already discussed really . The most important by far was the look and feel of it . It needs to be something that's very different from everything else out there . It needs to stand out {vocalsound}. It needs to be not functional like the rest of the things out there at the moment . Most people find remote controls boring at the moment , we need to have something that looks interesting , that looks exciting , thatwill stand out . People will wanna buy it . Um {disfmarker} That was twice as i important as the next item on here which is that it has to be technologically innovative {disfmarker} has to have something else , apartfrom just the look of it . People have to then think about it and say {gap} got something there that I want . That's a really cool feature , and it has to make them wanna buy it again . Third on the list , and againinnovative was twice as important as this last um aspect , it has to be easy to use . So they have to be able to {disfmarker} be able to look at it and have some intuitive idea of how to use it um . Drawing on the fashiontrends at the moment , uh fruit and vegetables um . This is basically talking about just the the feel of it , so probably not the smell of it , but the bright colours , um eye-catching , really bold designs , and a spongy feel.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: Um I had a talk to the design people about this , but having a remote that's tactile , that feelsdifferent , that would be really cool . That would make it stand out . Um .Project Manager: Hmm .Industrial Designer: So can you repeat and be more precise about what you just said ?Project Manager: Spongy feel?Industrial Designer: Uh about the feeling yeah uh yoMarketing: WellUser Interface: {vocalsound} You can {disfmarker}Marketing: ma make it not necessar sp spongy is the current thing . Spongy is the currenttexture , but basically there are no reports no remotes at the moment which are spongy or tactile at all , so if we make it like maybe furry or soft or something , that'll be something that sets it apart ,IndustrialDesigner: Okay .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: rather than just bare plastic which they all are at the moment .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: So as far as the design goes , the verymost important aspect was the design , to the customers . So going with the fruit and vegetable idea , we've got the bright colours , so makes it stand out , the oranges and the the bright yellows and the florescentcolours , part of the fruit and vegetables um . Going back to the idea of taking inspiration from mobile phones , they've all got those {disfmarker} a lot of them have the changeable covers , so they can choose whatcolour the outside is . That's one way of looking at it um . Textured feel we just talked about . Maybe it's another way of doing that .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: So if it's part of the the changeable coversthen may maybe they can choose a different texture , a spongy one or a soft one or something like that . So they can choose it li as they want to to maybe {disfmarker} to fit in with their decor in their living room , orjust what they like , their sports team or whatever .Industrial Designer: Yeah that's a very good idea , yeah . Yeah .Marketing: Um and yeah , still taking the inspiration from the mobile phone design so functionality ,the way the mobile phones work , the way the keypad looks . Also just the way that a lot of industrial design is going into mobile phones at the moment . They're big selling items . People put a lot of thought into that sowe can leverage off that , and we can start using some of their ideas . Um back to technological in in innovation , not quite as important , but still a big issue . Um we talked about having a way of finding a remotecontrol if it's been lost , uh that's one thing we could look at . There are other aspects like L_C_D_ screens and speech recognition which weren't {disfmarker} I don't think , in my personal opinion , gonna be worth theextra expense and the extra effort that will go into them . I think we're better doing something basic like thisIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Marketing: which is very important and very {disfmarker} will be a really coolfeature to put in . And {disfmarker} {gap} use . I had no real specific ideas for this , maybe we just , the basic idea of having your core functions big and at the top maybe , by themselves ,Project Manager: Mm . YeswellMarketing: and then {disfmarker}Project Manager: maybe Matthew can can give some more information on the {disfmarker}Marketing: yeahUser Interface: Yeah .Marketing: {disfmarker} and then th th the finerdetails of buttons you don't use as much either hidden away or completely separate .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: Yep {vocalsound} and that's the presentation .User Interface: Voila .Project Manager: Okay good ,that's very clear .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah very clear .Project Manager: 'Kay . Um . Uh {disfmarker}Marketing: So does anyone have any comments or ideas on that ? I think you{disfmarker}Project Manager: Maybe we yes well we maybe {vocalsound} can decide later on um {vocalsound} the l the the look and feel of uh I've {disfmarker} it was a good idea maybe to to {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: To let the people choose , {gap} you mean ?Project Manager: Yes the the the there are changeable covers ,Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: but on the other hand I I don't know whether mysuperiors would be so glad with it because {vocalsound} you have to introduce a complete uh uh new l line of uh of suppliesMarketing: Hmm .Project Manager: uh it would be uh very complicated uh organisational{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Well we're selling so many units of this . This is gonna be a mass marketed product , we can afford to have two or three different designs at least .ProjectManager: Hmm . Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Yeah a range of uh yeah , a set of three , four different aspects .Marketing: Mm mm .Project Manager: Yes . Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Sure that fits the{vocalsound} {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yes {gap} and of course it will be a we we get a {disfmarker} if it works we can get uh after-salesMarketing: Mm .Project Manager: I mean that would {gap} would be verygood I mean those covers could go for for three , five Euro {vocalsound} .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: That's a very good idea um {disfmarker} And then uh maybe uh we can go a thMatthew's presentation becauseUser Interface: YeahMarketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: sProject Manager: the {disfmarker}User Interface: then we could discuss later like {disfmarker} we can put all ideas together.Project Manager: Together indeed uh ,Marketing: Mm .User Interface: It should be easier with that .Project Manager: because you ma might have some some information on the the easy to use ,Industrial Designer:Yeah yeah I agree .Marketing: Mm-hmm , yeah .Project Manager: what you were already mentioning .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: And your partis very related to mineUser Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: because when you suggest something then it has to be integrated inside .User Interface: Yeah so {vocalsound} I'll I'll go with that actuallyMarketing:Mm-hmm .User Interface: so um {vocalsound} {disfmarker} Okay so m so {vocalsound} then the the idea of uh having a remote is generally you have uh different keys and uh different structures , different forms ,and uh they could be like buttons and um they could be of uh a varying sizes if you want to to uh basically emphasize a particular key more than the other , and uh maybe like you can have different colours for examplehaving the r red for the on off switching on and off the button . So this this is the general trend to ha the method they do . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: So what I havefound was that uh currently uh the {gap} they are mostly that the T_V_ , V_C_R_ , music system operated ones actually , and they are very specific to each other , but there are some common keys for example if youwant to follow the V_C_R_ and if you want to follow the uh g uh s some uh soundtrack on the w w see they have the common thing actually you can haveMarketing: Mm .User Interface: and uh {vocalsound}{disfmarker} There is also um a speech recognition to store channel information , names , like {disfmarker} You can basically {disfmarker} if you have a multiple functionality , say T_V_ , V_C_R_ or something I say itto the T_V_ and the {gap} T_V_ , and you can programme the keys if you want to , certain keys are even the channel information {vocalsound} .Marketing: Mm . Mm . I like the idea though of having speechrecognition for like the n the name of a channel like B_B_C_ , rather than having to remember the the number of it on the keypad . That's a good idea .User Interface: Yeah yeah so you you you can just uh because uhas more and more channels come then you have more and more problems to remember the v v exact channel numbers ex exactly ,Industrial Designer: {gap} .Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface:even if you arrange it by {disfmarker} however you arrange it , you still have the problem to remember exactly which channel you want to {disfmarker}Marketing: Hmm . Mm . Yeah I really like that idea .IndustrialDesigner: So what functionalities do you suggest for that ? For facing this problem ?User Interface: So it it it's like it {gap} limited one . In the present market I saw it that says something like they are looking for{vocalsound} eighty word thing , eighty word ,Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: which shouldn't be th that difficult to implement , like eighty to hundred word . Basically you want you don't want to store all thechannels in the remote control ,Marketing: Mm .User Interface: you want to st store your favourite channel .Marketing: Maybe ten channels , yeah at the most .User Interface: Yeah some ten twelve channel information. You know you don't want to st store all the hundred channel information into that .Industrial Designer: Okay .Marketing: Mm .User Interface: And uh basically uh it depends like the remote with L_C_D_ display forbrowsing because you have multiple functionalities for example you are watching a movie , and uh uh you are {vocalsound} having a universal remote control and you want to uh you don't know really whichfunctionality is {gap} now , so I am using the T_V_ so every time I use it , it could be like , for example I can use a simple toggle switch , and a display , so I press it so the display says , okay , I'm in T_V_ or D_V_D_or whatever it is , instead of having three keys separately for four keys ,Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm . Oh yeah yeah yeah mm .User Interface: to model the functionalities will increase actually,Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: and for you and you might want {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm .User Interface: you don't want separate keys for all of them . You can't . And uh well there canbe children friendly where you can programme your remote so that they they are not allowed uh to browse certain channels which you can block them , and you can operate them . So these are the things presentlywhich are seen in the market scenarios at present .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .User Interface: I personally would look at {vocalsound} things like having a u universal remote , is uh um is a good idea , like insteadof having {gap} unusual ones for all of them you can think of having , um with multiple functionality possibly with speech recognition .Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: I got a mail from the the coffee machineinterface unit that uh they have uh integrated the s speech recognition into a into the coffee machine ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm bUser Interface: and so if you say hello coffee machine , it say hiJoe , or something like that , you know , and uh {disfmarker}Marketing: But a coffee machine , there's not too many words they'd be using with that it's a it's a small vocabulary .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah youyou won't be using it , so it's a limited vocabulary mm thing , and very isolated wordMarketing: Mm . Mm .User Interface: and it's uh it is interesting , and basically storing the channel through voice or other ways ofprogramming your keys , on the display for the browsingMarketing: Mm .User Interface: which is again {disfmarker} and maybe having something like a blinking thing , like uh it could indicate you're uh {disfmarker} itit could indicate what is cal like the uh whether uh you you have enough battery in your in your uh remote , the blinking .Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: At the same time , if it's a dark room ,it can be used to locate the remote alsoMarketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} {gap} or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: And you want okay {disfmarker} for coming back to one pointMarketing: Twothirty five supposed to finish .Industrial Designer: y you want to let the user to programming the keys ? Some of them ?User Interface: Yeah you can let them to do that .Industrial Designer: And uh isn't that toodifficult for the {disfmarker} we want w I don't know if we still want the um R_C_ to be easy to use ,Marketing: Hmm .Industrial Designer: that's the {gap} compromise .User Interface: N no but the {disfmarker} if yougive {disfmarker} it d depends on the easiness like the user how much effort he can put .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Hmm .User Interface: Like for example uh I would like to store in certain way , so if youwant to give the full freedom to the userMarketing: Mm .User Interface: or you want to keep some constraints and let the user use it with that constraint .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah . Mm . I think youcan do it both ways .User Interface: So it deIndustrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: You can have it so it's easy {gap} they can pick it up and use it straight away without doing anythi without customizing it ,IndustrialDesigner: A standard .Marketing: or if they want to they have the option of using these extra features .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Um yes but but I do {vocalsound} {disfmarker}User Interface: So{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: maybe you can {vocalsound} give a hand to us because I I'm not sure whether that that we can implement that for twelve Euro and fifty cents .User Interface:{vocalsound} So {disfmarker}Marketing: Hmm .Project Manager: I'm sorry to have {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Every time I have to come down on this price againMarketing: Hmm .Project Manager: to {vocalsound}so this might be a little limiting for your creativity ,Marketing: Hmm .Project Manager: but it's it's it's the real {disfmarker} {vocalsound} We have to consider it . S so {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah .ProjectManager: do we think these ideas {vocalsound} an and my uh sp speech recognition , I mean maybe it's possible for for twelve Euro but then then it will be at cost of other functionality we might implement like the uhuh the the the furry uh {vocalsound} uh case of the {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm . Hmm .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm yeah like {vocalsound} I would say that for programming uh keys , you said , uh it could be uheasily uh done within the the package of twel twelve Euros ,User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: but for the A_S_R_ system , uh I'm not sure if it's feasible to havethisUser Interface: We well we can still look at {disfmarker} we can talk with the coffee unitIndustrial Designer: We {vocalsound}User Interface: and you can uh check how much how much they {disfmarker}{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Exactly yeah i if if it's a low vocabulary it's already implemented ,User Interface: yeah yeahMarketing: Mm .User Interface: yeah .Industrial Designer: and w how much it's cost , maybewith a f cheap chip .User Interface: Maybe we can come {vocalsound} we we can talk to them , and we can come with that ,Project Manager: Mm mm .User Interface: you know .Industrial Designer: Yeah .UserInterface: And also well you can think of having uh since you have a {disfmarker} you know something {gap} maybe if you added little bit of {gap} display , you might need the {disfmarker} to che keep checking thebattery , so you really need a some {vocalsound} kind of indicator ,Marketing: Hmm .User Interface: so it could be a blinking option of L_E_D_ {vocalsound}Project Manager: Hmm .User Interface: it could actually beused to detect also .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: If it's in a dark room you can basically detect it also .Marketing: Mm . Hmm .Project Manager: Hmm .Industrial Designer: Yeah {vocalsound} .Marketing: Ilike the idea too of being able to use the remote in the dark ,Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: So {disfmarker}Marketing: so either having the buttons so you can feel the difference between them or if they if theylight up or something .User Interface: No actually {vocalsound} i if i it is like {disfmarker} you know it tells you um , it can be for two purposes ,Marketing: Mm .User Interface: like if you have an L_C_D_ display and allthose things it's not going to be the standard remote ,Marketing: Mm . Hmm .User Interface: which is having uh which need just uh six six volt uh th sorry three volts um of D_C_ .Marketing: Mm .User Interface: It mayneed more actually , so y you you may need to check your battery usage it {disfmarker} and then you need that , some functionality to indicate the battery limit .Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: Hmm .User"}
{"doc_id":"doc_150","qid":"","text":"Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I'm proud of it . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay . This is our final meeting , the detailed design meeting . And again I'll take minutes . The{disfmarker} what we have to get through in this meeting is firstly the prototype presentation from you two , so you can show us what you've been working on so diligently .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: It does lookvery cool .Project Manager: Um thenIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} then Cat's going to present the evaluation criteria that we're going to be evaluating this against .User Interface:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Then I need to say some st a few things about finance , 'cause we have to check that it's within the finance criteria . Um and then we'll be making sure that our product fits both theevaluation criteria from Cat and the financial limits . Um and then we uh will have a brief evaluation of the whole process of production and design that we've been through . So we've got forty minutes . SMarketing: Andthen do we get to make a remote control ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} 'Cause we missed out .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager:SoIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: it's now {disfmarker} I guess that we're supposed to start at fifteen thirty five , so we've got until four fifteen .Industrial Designer: Uh-huh . How how much do wehave , forty minutes ?Project Manager: Is that right ?User Interface: Yeah , about four fifteen , yeah .Project Manager: Yeah ,Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: until about four fifteen . Soyeah . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay , so .Project Manager: Go for it . Do you want {disfmarker}User Interface: So , you said um {disfmarker} are are we starting with the the{disfmarker}Project Manager: Yes .Industrial Designer: Presentation .User Interface: so will you maybe start with like the mm the shape and things and and then I will explain the the user interface th uh things , likethe buttons and the scrolling things and {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay . {vocalsound} Okay . So um basically going with our trend of vegetables and {vocalsound} {disfmarker} we selected thecolour and approximate shape of banana .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} You think bananas are a safe thing to use ?Project Manager: {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound} Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: It's a bit um phallic .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Um {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Well , but it's it's just ana approximation . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Dual use , perfect .Industrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Dual use , perfect .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Oh ,{vocalsound} {gap} your remote control ? Oh that's just bad . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Does it vibrate when you press the buttons ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Um so basically it's the it'sthe flip open thing again .Project Manager: Sorry , sorry .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So now we we have the {disfmarker} okay ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: so Ma Maarikawill explain you the user interface there . And it flips open on the side , so it opens like that . And we have the user interface o in hereProject Manager: Mm-hmm . Wow .Industrial Designer: and uh {vocalsound} the theL_C_D_ and and the scroll are inside . Um well , everything else is probably user interface , so . Yeah , yeah .Project Manager: And it's {disfmarker} the whole thing's made of rubber , is that {disfmarker}UserInterface: Uh yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Oh yeah . Yeah , it has , yeah .User Interface: Rubber .Marketing: Is it to scale , or do you think you can make it a bit smaller ?User Interface: Yeah , {gap} . Um itcould be made a bit smaller , and and of course it would be {gap} and {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound} yeah , but um one thing we actually kind of um forgot while designing , that one sidewas supposed to be rounder ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah ,User Interface: so we said the back side round , yeah .Industrial Designer: well , but i since it's made of rubber anyway . I I think it's it's uh{disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: It l does look like the {gap} curvyUser Interface: Yeah .Marketing: and then the whole shape's curvy , so I would say that this curvy does look quite like a vegetable.Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Mm . Hmm .User Interface: Yeah . And it's spongy as well . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I wasn't verykeen on that , but yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: So {vocalsound} so uh the user interface as as we discussed last time uh mm on on the {vocalsound} on the cover we just have thevery basic things .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Huh . Mm-hmm .User Interface: So we have that n uh channels here starting from um uh one two three {disfmarker} there would be numbers in inthe {disfmarker} on the actual one .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: So it's four , up to four , up to seven , up to nine and zero , z zero here .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Six seven eight nine . I like that .UserInterface: Yeah . And then , well this is on off button . It's it's quite standard mm place for it and and also the colour is quite often red , so it's it's kind of user friendly .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: And thenthese ones would be for flipping the channels back and {disfmarker} like the previous one and the next one .Project Manager: Uh-huh .User Interface: And and we would also have a l little um thing saying here ,previous and ne prevon prevon next .Marketing: So where's the volume ?Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: The volume is is scrolling .Industrial Designer: It's on the side .User Interface: On the side ,Marketing:Ah , you did get that in then ,User Interface: this one . Yeah you just do it like this .Marketing: mm-hmm .User Interface: And and and it's it's on the back is mm cover or back lid , because if you flip it open , you canstill do the scrolling here .Marketing: Oh okay , {gap} .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: See ? So the volume is {vocalsound} you just scroll , but then once you flip it open , {vocalsound} okay , there thereyou have the screenProject Manager: Yeah .User Interface: and and you have the mm {vocalsound} spinning wheel with options to choose .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: You can move back and forth andthen if you need to m choose something on the screen , you just push the cen mm the middle button .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Cool . Oh , the thing we forgot was like a mute button .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound} Uh no , we we'd not put {gap} {vocalsound} {disfmarker}User Interface: A mute button .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: so on on the cover we have the the bare essentials .User Interface: Well ,{gap} we'll have this on the screen , on the display .Project Manager: Y or you could have it {disfmarker} so you {disfmarker} on the wheel if you {disfmarker}Marketing: On the wheel , like if you hold the wheel downthen it will mute .Industrial Designer: Uh on the L_C_D_ we r you know , the main menu will have various options .User Interface: Well , but the but the mute {disfmarker} yeah , the scrolling is kind of you have toscroll all the way to make it mute , right ?Project Manager: But if you hold it in ,Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: Yeah , but it's a scroll and click , isn't it ?Project Manager: if it's a scroll and click so you hold it in?Marketing: Okay , cool .User Interface: Okay , yeah , okay .Marketing: So that {gap} that solves the whole mute issue .Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound} And okay , so i so the the voicerecognition is also just part of it .Project Manager: {gap} no .User Interface: You can't really see it in the interface .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah , it's hidden in there somewhere .User Interface: Yeah . Andwe do have the logo on it as well .Project Manager: Mm-hmm , very good .User Interface: So I think it {disfmarker}Project Manager: And it's {disfmarker} {vocalsound} with the the black and yellow you're even in theright colours .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: {gap} .Industrial Designer: Cool .User Interface: Yeah , I think um we could do l the logo in grey , as it is on the website .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound} We ran out of resources here , so . {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: In the actual one .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: You can have a look . {vocalsound}User Interface: So if you have questions .Project Manager: Very good , let's have a look .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Test it out .{vocalsound}Marketing: {gap} . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh it's a sort of intermediate colour , I guess .Marketing:Yeah , oh , we hold the remote .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Oh , but it it does feel all cold and slimy .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: I hate Play-Do , it'sjust minging .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: But yeah , uh that's cool , cool .Project Manager: Very good .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Okay , so maybe if we go on to evaluation cricriteriaMarketing: Okay .Project Manager: and then we'll there {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah , see the budget .Project Manager: I suspect we're gonna have a couple of minor finance issues , but um we'll seI'm sure we can get around them somehow .Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: We'll just send all of our manufacturing to some nice poor countryIndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}Project Manager: and cut some of the prices that way .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Wales . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Wales , for example .{vocalsound}Marketing: Mm . Cool , okay . Right , okay . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Fabulous ,Project Manager: Marketing Expert .Marketing: yeah . Okay , cool . So what we're gonna do is prefer {disfmarker}prepare the evaluation of the new design . {vocalsound} Um so we're gonna be using a seven point scale ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: so one is , you know , yes , it totally meets with that requirement andseven is , no , it really doesn't , we need to go back and start again . Um , you know . Basically , what I did was I went through all the like user requirements and things that we've done and we've worked on and likemade a list of them . Um you know , so that we can evaluate each one and like {disfmarker} so it was about going back to the start and saying oh yeah , we did manage to do that , or oh no , we really forgot about that.User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Okay ?Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Cool , so these are what they are . Oh {disfmarker}Project Manager: So for each of these we need to give it a one to seven . Is that right?Marketing: Yes , I did have A_ , B_ , C_ , and D_ down here , but it seems to have turned into like just bullet points .Project Manager: Mm dots , never mind .Marketing: Okay . But if you can imagine that they say A_ ,B_ , C_ , and D_ , then that would be really good .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} I guess we'll give it maximum points in everything . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah , the yeah , it's definitelyattractive . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah , I agree .User Interface: Oh , the locatable thing we actually forgot .Marketing: Well , I thought we'd um kinda said thatyou'd have a little thing to stick on the T_V_ ?Project Manager: Yeah , just prepare one now .User Interface: Yeah . Shall I just prepare it now ?Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .User Interface: It will be red , too.Marketing: Cool . Okay . So , be attractive to look at . That's this one . What do you all say ?Industrial Designer: So ?Project Manager: I reckon it {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} S seven was th themaximum , yeah ?Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: I I go for seven .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yes .Marketing: Oh {vocalsound} we're all so proud of the {gap} .Project Manager: Seven, yeah , it's terribly sexy . Yeah .Marketing: Okay , so that'll be a seven for A_ .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Could {disfmarker} oh no , you can't whilst that's up there . Okay um uh what I've done on thenext page is I've set it up so we just put the marks in .Project Manager: Ah , okay .Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: Excellent . Except we can't {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: But we canwe can {disfmarker}Marketing: But that's alright .Project Manager: uh we can if we {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I can I can take note uh uh {disfmarker}Marketing: If you take a note of them , and then I'll putthem in in a minute .Project Manager: then yeah , I'll take a note , it's fine .Marketing: Okay , so {vocalsound} we're all agreeing on seven for A_ ?Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Cool , okay . Does it match theoperating behaviour of the user ?Industrial Designer: Um the the only thing that we were considering was that uh this thing is kind of more for right-handed people than for left-handed people ,Project Manager: I thinkit does .User Interface: I would think yes , yeah .Marketing: Yeah . I mean {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: so if you're left-handed you're kind of left uh scrolling with your finger .User Interface: Yeah ,ProjectManager: Alright .User Interface: so y so we we might do we might want to do like a uh another m {vocalsound} model another another version , which is like exactly the mirror image of this one .Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: But that's gonna be a problem ,Industrial Designer: But then {disfmarker} yeah .Project Manager: 'cause you don't always have all left-handers or all right-handers in a family .Industrial Designer:Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: So bu it's it's not a huge problem ,Marketing: I th I think it's not {vocalsound} it's not like it's a pen .Industrial Designer: because i i it is operatable .User Interface: Butthen then I think left-handed people are already used to discrimination anyway ,Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: so they just {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah , but I mean because it's not like it's a pen , you know ,left-handed people can't normally write right-handed ,User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: but they can normally do most things right-handed ,Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Right .Marketing: so I would sayit's not such a big issue .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Yeah , because I mean anyway , right-handed people would be able to scroll with it ,Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: I meanyou can you can use your finger to to scroll rather than your thumb .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: so i if the majority are right-handed , it's uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer:Yep .Marketing: So I mean that does kind of negate the whole R_S_I_ issue .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: So maybe we need to put {disfmarker} that needs a little bit of investigation ,maybe give it a five , I would say ?Project Manager: Um {disfmarker}Marketing: What do you what do you all think ?Industrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: Six .User Interface: Or maybe six , because it's just oneone i one among the issues ,Project Manager: Yeah , I think I think for um {disfmarker}User Interface: I mean . Yeah .Project Manager: I mean most people are right-handed , so in {vocalsound} in terms of ourgreatest target group , I think it's pretty good , but we might want to flag it for management , they want {disfmarker} might want to um {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: One more thing is thatiMarketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: It might be a little clumsy when when it opens up , right ,Project Manager: They {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: so it opens on the side . So {vocalsound} {disfmarker}ProjectManager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: No , yeah , but mm but we have it {vocalsound} nicely {vocalsound} with the hinges here {gap} yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah yeah yeah , I mean {disfmarker}yeah .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: So it won't be a problem ,Marketing: Yeah . Yeah .Industrial Designer: So you guys can decide wh whether {disfmarker}User Interface: it will be {disfmarker} and it will be{disfmarker} it won't be heavy .Industrial Designer: Oops .Marketing: I th I think the alternative is flipping from the top .Industrial Designer: Yeah , but we {disfmarker} which makes it kind of really big , yeah .UserInterface: Yeah well yeah ,Project Manager: The length is gonna be difficuUser Interface: but it's it's a bit long . It's a little bit long .Marketing: Yeah um {disfmarker}User Interface: Well , I mean it can be opened likethis of course and yeah .Marketing: But you were thinking about making it smaller , yeah ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh this this kind of uh makes it more {gap}Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: Because{disfmarker}User Interface: S uh slightly smaller .Industrial Designer: and two , it might interfere with the I_R_ channel .Marketing: So you have to keep that side flat .User Interface: Yeah , but if we flip it open only asmuch as that .Industrial Designer: Okay .Marketing: So it works like a mobile phone flipping , but y you know , as long as that side's flat , than that will work .Industrial Designer: Right . Okay .Marketing: Okay . Um{vocalsound} okay , so C_ . Are are we admitting defeat on C_ or are we saying we're gonna stick a locator on the T_V_ ?Industrial Designer: No , we have a locator .Project Manager: No , we're gonna put it like{disfmarker} we've got th there's the locator dot .Marketing: There's a locator . Cool , so that means you need a {disfmarker} that does mean you need a little speaker on it though ,User Interface: Mm that you stick onT_V_ .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: doesn't it ? To make it beep .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Or a buzzer .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah well w but l but the speak sample speaker isincluded , so it it has some capacity to mm to do some {disfmarker} to make some sounds , so {disfmarker} yeah .Marketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: So that's two , so that's seven , yeah . It'slocatable ?User Interface: Yep .Marketing: Fabulous . D_ .Industrial Designer: Intuitive , completely intuitive . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah . If{vocalsound} uh uh if this means intuitive , if it means the way people kind of are used to finding thingsProject Manager: Yeah .User Interface: and it's {disfmarker} I th I think it's {disfmarker}Project Manager: I'd saysix , 'cause the {disfmarker} I mean the the standard layout for numbers is three three three and one , rather than the way you've got it . I really like the way you have it ,Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: but it's notthe immediate thing that you're used to .Industrial Designer: Intuitive .Marketing: Yeah , and I mean dIndustrial Designer: And uh even the scroll , it's a it's a new technologyProject Manager: So {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: so m m might be a little more difficult for people to get used to in the beginniProject Manager: Might be {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: so it is kind of not very intuitive but uh it's a good technology , I meanonce they get used to it .Project Manager: But it {disfmarker} and it's something that they will be experiencing in a lot of different places soon .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: So , should wemaybe say f a fiveIndustrial Designer: So lMarketing: and say it is intuitive ,Project Manager: Five ?Marketing: but it's different , so , do you know , I mean it's obvious how to use it ,Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing:but you might have to think about it first . So we give that one a five , you think ?Industrial Designer: Yeah , okay . I'm gonna give a seven in everything , so . {vocalsound}Marketing: Yep .Project Manager: I'm happywith five ?User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound}Marketing: I'm glad you're accepting this . It has taken a little while , hasn't it ? Um intuitive but {disfmarker} Sorry , it's really hard to write onthose .Industrial Designer: Mm . {vocalsound}Marketing: I just went a bit mad , didn't I ?Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Um okay , cool , E_ , okay . Um I would guess this comes back from this whole B_"}
{"doc_id":"doc_151","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: SoMarketing: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: I hope you're ready for this uh functional design meeting .Marketing: Of course . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um so I will take the minutes you mmyou three are going to do presentation . Um uh we want to know {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} at the end to know the new project's requirement so we need uh to know the the user uh needs that we want to fulfil tofulfil the {disfmarker} from the technical part we want to know how it going to work and um third part {vocalsound} uh I don't remember {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: which isnot very good . Ah of course , how to to design this uh this {disfmarker}Marketing: Nice stuff {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} yeah . So um let's go for the three presentations , so first um Marketing Expert.Marketing: {vocalsound} Who starts ? {vocalsound} Oh . Ha . okay .Project Manager: So wait a minute . Mm .Marketing: So I dunno if I can do that like this ? Yeah ? So it's being modified . Do you want {disfmarker}yeah , open . Read only . I hope I saved it . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: So , umUser Interface: Sammy Benjo . I know this name uh .Marketing: yeah , this is my name .{vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Sounds uh {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} We met before .Marketing: So as you know , you {disfmarker} I think you already know me , Sammy Benjo . I am theexpert in marketing and I want to tell you about what people uh s want and uh like and dislike in remote controls , and I hope this is going to help you to to design it correctly . So next please . Uh-oh .{vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm {vocalsound} uh .Industrial Designer: Yeah , it is put F_ five {gap} .Project Manager: Hmm .Marketing: {vocalsound} Hmm .Industrial Designer: The full page presentation , yep.Marketing: Yeah maybe in the full pageProject Manager: Okay .User Interface: F_ F_ five .Marketing: because i I spent lots of time doing this presentation , so .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Yep .Project Manager: F_ five.Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Uh-huh hmm okay .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Mm .Marketing: So basically uh what I suggest is that uh instead of deciding ourself what what could be and what should be agood uh remote control , let's ask people who are users of remote controls how they feel about w the current remote controls , what they like , what they don't like and um and what they do with them by the way{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: because they are supposed to be useful . {vocalsound} Don't forget about that . So we've we've conducted a a survey on on the use of uh remote controls andI'd like to show you some of the results we found on this survey . And next please . Yeah , so basically what we found was that uh there are several things that the user don't like in remote controls . First of all , theyfind it very ugly . {vocalsound} Current remote controls as you know they're the same as this one uh they're not nice colour , not nice shape , I mean they're all the same , and they're not l good looking . Um what isinteresting is that in fact it seems that they were {disfmarker} people are ready to pay for nice and look {disfmarker} and fancy looking uh remote control , so I think we should probably spend lots of time in{disfmarker} and effort in that um . And the other thing is that uh the the current remote controls are not so easy to use and it it {disfmarker} the the current uh facilities that they offer do not match what people reallywant to use their remote controls . For instance uh we see that uh they zap very often so I think this is a very uh important uh functionality that it should be easy for them to to zap uh in one way or another . And mostof the buttons uh on uh current remote controls are not used , so I think we should design something where some of the buttons which are those that are used should be easier to see and use than others that only acouple of people are using . Um next please . {vocalsound} Now {vocalsound} people are very frustrated w with their {vocalsound} remote controlsIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: and theyfor instance uh they don't even find it {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: it's {vocalsound} it's often lost somewhere in the in the {disfmarker} in your home and nobody knows where it is.Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: Agree .Marketing: Maybe if we have something where we could {vocalsound} ask the remote control please , where are you ?Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound} Like uh something to to {disfmarker} like t I think phones . Some of the phones have some of this kind of s functionality . Uh of coursephone you can always phone your phoneProject Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: but {vocalsound} you can't phone your {vocalsound} your remote control .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} You can {disfmarker}you are {gap} .Project Manager: Why not ? {vocalsound}Marketing: But why not ? Yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: And because of the fact that there are so many buttons in these remote controlsthat nobody use ,Industrial Designer: Hmm .Marketing: in fact they don't even know how to use them , so most of the the people say they they don't know how to {disfmarker} they {disfmarker} to use properly their rremote controls . And uh they are bad for R_S_I_ but uh I don't remember what is R_S_I_ .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay uh tha that's look great.Marketing: {vocalsound} So I think they are bad . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} R_S_I_ mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm-hmm . Mm nobody has any idea aboutthat ? Well I'll check uh with myIndustrial Designer: Yeah , it's electromagnetic waves or something kind of maybe uh effect .Marketing: Oh , okay ,User Interface: No , I don't think so .Marketing: I think it's a technicalthingIndustrial Designer: Yeah ,Marketing: which our {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: because infrared uses some electromagnetic technology ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Okay .Marketing: Okay .User Interface:Okay .Industrial Designer: and those waves have high {disfmarker}Marketing: So , it seems that {vocalsound} it's a lot of people for a concept that we don't know {vocalsound}User Interface: But twenty six percent ,do you know {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Or something we don't know . {vocalsound} Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Uh .User Interface: Twenty five . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:Uh .Marketing: but we have to take this into account .User Interface: Every fourth , you know . {vocalsound} Every four {disfmarker} some of us knows .Industrial Designer: Yeah it's {disfmarker} People really{vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay .Marketing: So anywayUser Interface: One of us {disfmarker}Marketing: that's for what the biggest frustration uh of the userand umIndustrial Designer: Yeah . Yeah .Marketing: what else do I have ? Next slide ? Ah yeah .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: So we've listed a couple of uhUser Interface: Functions .Marketing: s uh functionsthat may be uh used by u the user in the current uh available uh remote controls and uh well the tables look very nice to read but what is important is to understand that the power button is not used often because ingeneral you {vocalsound} use it only once per session , but it is very relevant . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: People want to have a power button . Channel selection is uh o often used{disfmarker} very often used and indeed uh very relevant .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Ah {vocalsound} now I remember what is R_S_I_ {vocalsound}Project Manager:{vocalsound}Marketing: it's repetitivity stress injury . {vocalsound} We have to be careful with that word but {vocalsound} uh anywayIndustrial Designer: Uh .Marketing: I continue my presentation so {disfmarker}yeah ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: channel selection is um very important , very often used . Volume is not often used but people uh want to have control on volume and that makes sense of course . And nthen you have things which are very much less often used like the settings . Audio settings , screen settings , even teletext and channel settings . All of them . they're not often used and they are s more or less relevant. It seems that people find teletext teletext uh relevant , even if I personally never use it but seems that it's average relevant at least , so .Project Manager: I have been told that we uh don't consider teletext , that it'sout of date now because of internet .Marketing: I can tell you that uh in a l in a scale between one and ten relevant uh not relevant to relevant people scored a six on this , which is not as uh these these two one were{disfmarker} had I think ten I think .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: But but if you compare with these ones , uh I think they scored a one or two .Industrial Designer: Hmm .Marketing: Not very relevant , so ifif there are good reason not to put teletext it's okay but just know that people find it somehow relevant .Project Manager: Mm-hmmUser Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: That's for themain functions I think and uh then we can ask uh ourself uh what people don't have that may be useful . For instance I think {disfmarker} net next slide . {vocalsound} One of the thing {disfmarker} the trend uh thatuh you are probably aware of is the possibility {disfmarker} the eventual possibility of having speech recognition in your remote control , so you wouldn't have to tap tap in your buttons but just tell your remote controlor whatever you need you have what you want . So we've conducted a survey about uh whether people would like or not to have uh this kind of uh functionality in their remote control and as we can see it reallydepends on the age . Young people , probably because it's a buzz word , find it very relevant . And uh as the age goes up {vocalsound} the {vocalsound} the relevance goes down .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound} So now it really depends on the kind of uh targeting uh wha who are we targeting with this remote control ?Industrial Designer: 'Cause {disfmarker}Marketing: I think if we are targetingyoung people then uh it's probably something we have to consider . If we are targeting you very old people this is something they really don't know why they {disfmarker} this should be so nowProject Manager:Mm-mm . Okay .Marketing: this is of course , depends on that . And um I don't have any conclusion , I didn't have time the meeting was very tight , so that's basically my findings . And uh , if you have any question?Project Manager: Mm I think it's good , okay . You done a good review .User Interface: I got one question ,Marketing: I can go back .Industrial Designer: Thank you .Marketing: Yeah one question ,User Interface: uhyou are a Market ExpertMarketing: yeah ?User Interface: soMarketing: I am . {vocalsound}User Interface: should we aim at the young people or not ?Marketing: I think we should aim at the young people . But uh Ithink they are {disfmarker} they are those uh who might be more interested in a in a new device .Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: In general the the early adopters of a new device are young people , less than{disfmarker} more than {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay , then teletext is used less .Industrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Then teletext is useless for them I think ,User Interface: Okay.Marketing: yeah . Because they they have other means of finding their information . Yeah .Project Manager: Mm-hmm mm mm . Okay .User Interface: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .Project Manager: That's good point.Marketing: But {disfmarker} yeah . Nope .Industrial Designer: Mm , yep .User Interface: Mm . Okay .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: 'Kay ?Industrial Designer: Thank you .Project Manager: So um now I think it'sthe turn of the the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I'm not sure um {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Of the technical function , so {vocalsound} uhMarketing: So I think it's you , huh ?IndustrialDesigner: Uh it'sMarketing: No ? {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} That's me .Project Manager: what effect {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: techni function of {disfmarker}Marketing: No , userrequiremenIndustrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay . Wait a second .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Argh .Industrial Designer: I have to do working design so uhProject Manager: So you're{disfmarker}User Interface: That's {disfmarker} but this but number three , yes . Mm-hmm . So , my name is Mark Dwight , and um I am responsible for User Interface Design .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface:However , uh mm Project Manager asked me to give you some presentation about technical functions design . Uh , as I'm a more an artistMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: that'sgonna be less technical functions but more User Interface and current intentions and everything which is linked with this .Project Manager: Okay . Let's go .User Interface: So next slide please . And uh a general methodwhich is {disfmarker} seems to be very useful for our taskMarketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: is not to forget about uh Occam razor . We should never complicate things too much . Weshould only make a remote control , nothing more . Nothing more than this , just a remote control .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: 'Cause current remote controls they are nevereasy enough to use .Marketing: Makes sense . {vocalsound}User Interface: So , make a click , please . So here is this remote control .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: It's quite astandard one , but it's not from a T_V_ , it's from a much easier device like air conditioning or something . But you know , we can use it for a T_V_ easily . Only buttons we need is on off , volume , channels and maybesome options or something else , and please make a click , compared to this oneMarketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} It's {disfmarker}User Interface: which one would you prefer ? I guess this.Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah .Marketing: I would say the simplest one as long as there are the uh {disfmarker} I find the buttons that I need every time I need a button .User Interface: Sure , sure .IndustrialDesigner: Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Maybe it can be yeah middle of {disfmarker} like , between those twoUser Interface: Yeah , and our method is going to be , provide simpleIndustrialDesigner: liProject Manager: Oh sorry . {vocalsound}User Interface: simple desires into simple actions .Marketing: Nice . Nice sentence .User Interface: Findings .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound}ProjectManager: Oh sorry .User Interface: Our question of the style , we should remember that our companyMarketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: puts fashion into electronics and we should never forget about it.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Concept .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} S you should {disfmarker} yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound} Be simple . Be simple and you'll leanon this market .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Market is a {disfmarker} of remote controls {disfmarker} you know it better ,Marketing: Mm .User Interface: it's very well , it's it's not an easy field toto play , you know ? So be simple .Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: For personal preferences I think that to make a baby-proof remote control it got to be a titanium .Project Manager:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: It's a really good style , it going to be {disfmarker} look like like this . It is unbreakable and it is very universal . W we'll have ascreen with a back light which can change colours ,Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: and we can put all the options into this screen . We'll need only few buttons . All the other things can be controlled through thescreen . And all these buttons should be easy to find and to click , 'cause when you watch a movie and you want to change something , you always try to find a good button and click it , but you should do it by touchingit and finding it easily just by touch . So {disfmarker} Press {disfmarker}Project Manager: {gap}User Interface: I would propose this concept for design , just few buttons , a screen with a back light which can changecolours , titaniumIndustrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: I think , and uh what else ? I got just very few and good ideas . We need power and volume . And let us include two nice features into this device , first , poweron and off can be made fully automatic . When you go to the sofa , take your control and point it to the T_V_ ,Project Manager: It's off .Marketing: Hmm .Project Manager: It's on .User Interface: the T_V_ turns on.Marketing: And when does it turn off ?User Interface: When you don't touch the control but you go out of the {disfmarker} For for enough timeMarketing: Oh so you have aUser Interface: like uh you{disfmarker}Marketing: sensing {disfmarker} sensor machine that uh knows {disfmarker}User Interface: It's a question to our technical design , our {vocalsound} two engineers .Industrial Designer: {gap}{vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Tech {vocalsound}User Interface: And another nice feature that I would like to implement is uh volume control . Suppose you set u you set up some volume andthen you move out or you move to the other corner of the room and take your control with you . Like , you want to to change the chair or you want to move to the armchair from the sofa or something , and then thevolume changes .Project Manager: Or you want to go to the kitchen . {vocalsound}User Interface: It's easy to do ,Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: you just control the {disfmarker}Marketing: According to yourdistance to {disfmarker} and the angle maybe , if you have a stereo system .Industrial Designer: Distance .User Interface: According to the distance . {gap} Yeah yeah yeah . So {disfmarker}Marketing: Uh I'm notsure about the screen , wha what is the use usefulness of the screen ? Uh is it a touch screen by the way ?User Interface: I think it can be just a menu which can be controlled with a left , right , up , down and enter.Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: So it gives instructions but uh it has to be with an back light somehow . {gap}User Interface: So , its main purpose in fact is a back light ,Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .UserInterface: which change colours ,Marketing: Okay .User Interface: which makes it easier to find , and each can {disfmarker} it can respond for your voice , like it can turn on the light for you just to f find it easily , yeah?Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: Okay .User Interface: So basically that's it .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um I see that you target uh several s application not only T_V_ but i like we talk about um universal uhremote control .User Interface: Can be easily done ,Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: 'cause you got simple designs , y we should put it to simple actions .Project Manager: Hmm .User Interface: Let it be universal, so you want to use it for your hi-fi system . You want to change tracks and you want to adjust volume .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}User Interface: Just few actions , a few actions for everything.Industrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: Hmm . SUser Interface: All the rest , we sh we'll put it into this menu on the screen .Project Manager: Mm . Since we were targeting a really soon uh uh date for the the theum i issuing of this uh remote control I think we will only concentrate on T_V_ for the moment and then maybe m make it more generalised {disfmarker} yeah .User Interface: Okay , okay .Industrial Designer: Mm .Yeah and it {disfmarker} mm .User Interface: Okay , but it's quite universal you know .Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: We can just extend it to any device .Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: So for instanceif I want to go to {disfmarker} directly to channel twenty five , how would I do {disfmarker} can I do that with this ?User Interface: Uh twenty five .Marketing: Yeah mm let's say I am uh on channel eight now . Youknow these days we have hundreds of channels ,User Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: that's not so easy to go just next next next when you have hundreds of channels .User Interface: {vocalsound} In fact I would"}
{"doc_id":"doc_152","qid":"","text":"The Chair (Hon. Anthony Rota (NipissingTimiskaming, Lib.)): I call this meeting to order. Welcome to the 12th meeting of the House of Commons Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic. This will be the firsthybrid meeting of the committee. Some members will be participating via videoconference and some will be participating in person. This follows the order made by the House on May26,2020. Members who have alreadyparticipated in a virtual meeting of the special committee may actually not notice any change, except for the fact that some members are also participating from the floor of the House. An additional rubric, that ofstatements by members, was also added to the proceedings of the committee. In order to ensure that those joining the meeting via video conference can be seen and heard by those in the chamber, two screens havebeen set up in the chamber on either side of the Speakers chair. Sound amplification for virtual interventions will be available, and members in the chamber can listen to the floor sound or interpretation using theearpieces on their desks. Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. Please also direct your remarks through the Chair. Thank you. For those of you joining via video conference, I would like to remindyou to leave your mike on mute when you are not speaking. Also, please note that if you want to speak in English, you should be on the English channel. If you want to speak French, you should be on the Frenchchannel. Should you wish to alternate between the two languages, you should change the channel to the language that you are speaking each time you switch languages. Should members participating byvideoconference need to request the floor outside their designated speaking times, they should activate their microphone and state that they have a point of order. Those in the chamber can simply rise in the usual way.Please note that today's proceedings will be televised in the same way as a typical sitting of the House. Next we'll move on to ministerial announcements. I understand that there are no ministerial announcementstoday, so we'll move on to petitions. We'll be presenting petitions for a period not exceeding 15 minutes. I would like to remind members that any petition presented during a meeting of the special committee must havealready been certified by the clerk of petitions. For members participating in person, we ask that they please come and drop the signed certificates off at the table once the petitions are presented. First on our list forpresenting petitions is Ms. May, who is joining us virtually.Ms. Elizabeth May (SaanichGulf Islands, GP): Mr. Chair, what an honour to be the first voice coming to you from the screens on either side of the Speaker of theHouse. I speak to you from SaanichGulf Islands on the traditional territory of the WSNEC people. Hych'ka Siem. I'm presenting a petition, number 431-00215, and it has been certified. The petitioners call on this Houseto take note of the fact that Canada is the only country with a universal health care system that does not include the provision of necessary prescription medications. They note that the system across Canada is apatchwork that leaves three million Canadians unprepared and uninsured to be able to purchase necessary medications. They call on the House assembled to put in place a system of universal national pharmacare,bringing down the cost of drugs through bulk purchasing. I think I'll call that a summary, Mr. Chair. Thank you very much.The Chair: The next petition will be presented by Mr. Genuis.Mr. Garnett Genuis (SherwoodParkFort Saskatchewan, CPC): Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I'm pleased to be presenting two petitions before the committee today. The first petition is in support of Bill S-204. This Senate public bill, been putforward by Senator Salma Ataullahjan in the Senate, would make it a criminal offence for someone to go abroad to receive an organ for which there has not been consent. It also has a mechanism by which somebodycould be deemed inadmissible to Canada for being involved in the horrible practice of forced organ harvesting and trafficking. This bill has been before various Parliaments for over 10 years, and petitioners are hopefulthat this Parliament will be the one that finally takes action to address forced organ harvesting and trafficking. The second petition is put forward by folks who are concerned about Bill C-7, particularly the efforts by thegovernment through Bill C-7 to remove vital safeguards that are currently associated with Canada's euthanasia regime. Petitioners are not happy about the fact that the government is trying to eliminate the 10-dayreflection period and remove other safeguards that only four short years ago the government thought were essential for the euthanasia and assisted suicide system that they were putting in place. The petitioners call onthe government to address that, and they are not supportive of these particular efforts to remove vital safeguards from that regime. Thank you very much.The Chair: Is anyone else presenting petitions? Seeing none,we'll move on to statements by members. We will now proceed to Statements by Members for a period not exceeding 15minutes. Each statement will be for one minute. The first will be from Mr.Samson. Mr.Samson,you have the floor.Mr. Darrell Samson (SackvillePrestonChezzetcook, Lib.): Good afternoon, everyone. It's an honour to be presenting an S. O. 31. This spring has been a difficult one for Nova Scotia and thecommunities of SackvillePrestonChezzetcook. While residents have banded together to tackle the challenges presented by COVID-19, we have also had to mourn the passing of three remarkable local women: RCMPConstable Heidi Stevenson, well known by many in Cole Harbour and the surrounding areas; our own Sub-Lieutenant Abbigail Cowbrough, who was based out of 12 Wing Shearwater; and Captain Jenn Casey of theCanadian Forces Snowbirds. All three women died in the line of duty in separate tragic events while serving our country. These three brave women, who served with honour on land, at sea and in the air, represent theabsolute best of us. Heidi, Abbigail and Jenn were inspirational and will not be forgotten. Thank you.The Chair: Next we'll go to Mr. Bezan.Mr. James Bezan (SelkirkInterlakeEastman, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Canadaneeds a prime minister who will create jobs and opportunity, but instead we have a prime minister who is piling up crippling national debt. Yesterday the PBO predicted the federal deficit this year will hit over $252billion. That is almost equivalent to an average year of government spending before the Liberal government. After five years with this debt, Prime Minister, Canada's national debt is set to hit $1 trillion, with almostnothing to show for it. Industries from coast to coast are either closed or are struggling. Canadian workers need and deserve a prime minister who supports our energy sector and gets our natural resources andagriculture products to market, who supports small business and will make our tax system encourage job creation and growth, and who will bring advanced manufacturing jobs to Canada and keep the automotiveindustry growing. Most importantly, we need a Conservative prime minister who will get the government finances under control after the massive debt left by this prime minister.The Chair: Next we'll go to Mr.Anandasangaree.Mr. Gary Anandasangaree (ScarboroughRouge Park, Lib.): Mr. Chair, I speak today with a very heavy heart. Since the COVID-19 outbreak, we've seen a disproportionate number of deaths in long-termcare homes. I'm thankful for the Canadian Armed Forces who were deployed to the Altamont care home in my riding and four other facilities across the GTA. The CAF have brought forward horrifying allegations in theoperation of these homes. They include residents being given expired or improper doses of medication; not being cleaned or changed for a prolonged period of time; being forcibly fed, causing choking; being bed-boundfor weeks; receiving inadequate nutrition, and much more. Mr. Chair, I call upon Premier Ford to place these five homes under a mandatory management order and to appoint a third party manager to address andrectify these violations. I also call upon the Premier to undertake an independent public inquiry into the tragedy we face in long-term care facilities across Ontario. Finally, Mr. Chair, we need to work with the provincesand territories to set national standards of care for the most vulnerable in our society. We can and must do better. Thank you, Mr. Chair.The Chair: We have a point of order. Go ahead, Ms. May.Ms. Elizabeth May:Thank you, Mr. Chair. I hesitate to interrupt colleagues, but I'm concerned about the petition practice, which, as I understand it, is to summarize a petition but not make a speech. I felt one of our colleagues wastrespassing on our usual rules.The Chair: I will remind honourable members that when a petition is presented, we're expected to give a prcis and make it as concise as possible. Thank you. Mr.Champoux, you have thefloor.Mr. Martin Champoux (Drummond, BQ): Mr.Chair, I would like to recognize the resilience of Quebeckers concerned for their jobs or their businesses during the COVID-19 crisis. They need us to plan for after thecrisis, and we must do so now. To do so, we need the proper information. We need to know the status of the public finances. That is why the Bloc Qubcois is demanding that the government present an economic update,and that it do so before June17. This is not about making a spectacle. Everyone knows that the deficit will be huge. We had to provide the people with support and we all agree on that. But we have to know to whatextent. We also have to know where we are starting from so that we can plan where we are going. This is about respecting the public, because they are the ones who will be paying the bill. In closing, I would like toremind the government that one group is not really contributing to the public purse at the moment. I am talking about the tech giants, the GAFAM group, that have never before been used to the extent that they arenow, and that are still not paying a cent in tax in Canada. The Liberals promised to correct this injustice. Now is a great time for them to do so.The Chair: We'll now go to Ms. Sidhu.Ms. Sonia Sidhu (Brampton South,Lib.): Mr. Chair, this week is National Paramedic Services Week. I want to take this opportunity to thank the Peel region police, paramedic and firefighting services for keeping Bramptonians safe. In my riding,organizations have stepped up to help our community. Organizations such as the Khalsa Aid Society, the Interfaith Council of Peel, the Brampton YMCA, the Prayer Stone Peoples Church, Unity in the Community, Ste.Louise Outreach Centre, Knights Table, the Yogi Divine Society, Vraj Community Service, Regeneration Brampton and many more have made our community stronger during this difficult time. I also have to address thereport that came out yesterday from our brave Canadian Armed Forces. Like many Canadians, I was shocked by this report from the long-term care centres, including one in my riding. The examples of abuse describedin the report are unacceptable. Our seniors deserve dignity and respect. We must find a solution. We need to fix this.The Chair: We'll now go to Mrs. Stubbs.Mrs. Shannon Stubbs (Lakeland, CPC): Mr. Chair, Canada's oiland gas sector is in crisis, made worse by five years of bad policies, red tape and barriers to pipelines. Just in the last two months, we saw the largest production cut in Canadian history. Active rigs dropped by 92% andtens of thousands of oil and gas workers lost their jobs, adding to the 200,000 since 2015. Energy is Canada's biggest investor, and exporting could lead the recovery if there are actions, not just words. On March 25,the finance minister promised help in hours or days, not weeks, but he's letting Canadians down. Sixty-three days later, small oil and gas companies still can't apply for BDC loans, and last week's large employer loanterms are predatory, with interest rates escalating to 14% by year five. Those are payday loan rates. The required stock options being at record lows could make the government the largest shareholder. That's notemergency assistance; it's pandemic profiteering. Programs can't help workers if businesses can't or won't actually get the support. The Liberals' death-by-delay tactics are doing exactly what foreign activists in othercountries want: to shut down Canada's oil.The Chair: Ms.Bessette, the floor is yours.Mrs. Lyne Bessette (BromeMissisquoi, Lib.): Mr.Chair, in times of crisis, we stick together. I can state that this is certainly the case inBromeMissisquoi. In the last weeks, I have been calling volunteer action centres in my constituency so that they can tell me their news. I would like to take the time that I have to highlight the work that communityorganizations are doing tirelessly in my constituency. The crisis has made us realize the extent to which food banks and meals-on-wheels can not only relieve hunger, but also relieve thousands of shut-in seniors of theirloneliness. Let me also highlight the devotion of the volunteers giving generously of their time, particularly the initiative of Mabel Hastings in the volunteer aid centre in Mansonville. Like me, she sends out a dailynewsletter to keep the public informed about the many resources available for their support. COVID-19 is bringing out the best in our community and I am certain that, together, we will get through it.The Chair: We willgo to Mr. Virani.Mr. Arif Virani (ParkdaleHigh Park, Lib.): Mr. Chair, during the COVID-19 pandemic I have been inspired by the courageous work of so many essential workers. I want to thank everyone on the front linesfor keeping us safe, keeping us fed and keeping our communities functioning. I want to make special note of one particular essential health care worker, a woman who is a quarantine manager with the Public HealthAgency of Canada. I have personally seen her working tirelessly over the past three months to keep all of us safe. That woman is my wife, Suchita Jain. Suchi, I love you, I am very proud of you and I thank you for all ofthe sacrifices you are making. I want to highlight another woman from my riding of ParkdaleHigh Park, Rachelle LeBlanc. She is a local designer. When the pandemic broke, she saw the need for protective barriers forsmall shops in Parkdale, so she set about collecting donations. She then put her design talents to work and started designing free-standing protective shields. Rachelle's team has now delivered 25 free COVID protectiveshields to small shopkeepers in Parkdale, and the team is on track to building 100 more. It's the compassion of Canadians like Rachelle that gives meaning to the phrase we are all in this together.The Chair: Mr.Godin,you have the floor.Mr. Jol Godin (PortneufJacques-Cartier, CPC): Mr.Chair, the school year has been shattered and our graduating classes must be proud of what they have achieved amid the COVID-19 pandemic.Young men, young women, be proud of your accomplishments! You can believe in the future. Keep learning. It will give you tools that will serve you all your lives. What you have achieved in this extraordinary year willset you apart from the others. I invite you to be inspired by that and turn it to your advantage. The current government has the obligation to promote the values that will lead you to become involved in yourcommunities. Your willingness to learn or to work makes you into better citizens. Knowledge and experience are irreplaceable and invaluable. I implore this government, which is unaware of the damage it is causing, toimmediately announce all the positions that have already been approved under the Canada summer jobs program. Urgent action is needed. Let us have confidence in our organizations, our companies, and let ussupport our youth, a rich resource that we must equip and motivate. I congratulate all the young graduates in the beautiful constituency of PortneufJacques-Cartier.The Chair: We will now go to Mr. Fergus.Mr. GregFergus (HullAylmer, Lib.): Mr.Chair, this pandemic lets us see what Canadians are made of. This coming Saturday, May30, more than 2,000Christians of all denominations are coming together virtually for prayer and foraction. When the going gets tough, Canadians get going. This could not be more true than with respect to what will be happening on May 30. This Saturday, in more than 2,000 churches and homes, thousands offaith-filled Canadians are gathering to pray and act on those prayers as part of Stand United Canada. They will gather through television, Facebook Live and Instagram Live. Then they are going to deliver much-neededsupport to at-risk Canadians who live in disadvantaged areas. This is faith in action. I'm sure I speak for all parliamentarians when I wish success to Stand United Canada. I hope it inspires more Canadians to follow inits footsteps. Thank you, Mr. Chair.The Chair: We will now go to Ms. Harder.Ms. Rachael Harder (Lethbridge, CPC): The best way to safeguard the truth is to allow people to speak freely, but from the very beginning ofthis pandemic, the Liberals have silenced dissent. Sadly, their short-sightedness has been to the detriment of Canadians. Early on, they propagated the notion that human-to-human transmission wasn't possible. Theysaid that closing the borders wasn't necessary. They told us that wearing face masks wouldn't help. It is undeniable that the Liberal government has put Canadians in danger by silencing alternative points of view andhas spread misinformation. Ironically, however, they have now gone ahead and crowned themselves the arbiters of truth. They are spending millions of dollars to censor what Canadians can and cannot say. They aredetermining what is true and what is not, what is right and what is wrong, what is in and what is out. When freedom of speech is repressed, it is safe to say that democracy is under siege. I call upon the government torestore the personal liberties that are granted under our Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. This is Canada. We are not an autocracy; we are a democracy.The Chair: We will now go to Mr. Nater.Mr. John Nater(PerthWellington, CPC): Mr. Chair, small businesses have always been the cornerstone of communities across this country. They provide employment and economic stability and are always the first to supportcommunity functions and activities, but small businesses have been particularly hard hit due to COVID-19. They have shut their doors temporarily, and now many worry they'll never be able to open their doors again.With the season cancellations at the Stratford Festival, Drayton Entertainment and Stratford Summer Music, businesses in the tourism, hospitality, accommodation and retail sectors in PerthWellington are struggling.Every day, I talk to small business owners who can't access the Canada emergency business account, and others who find the convoluted commercial rent assistance program to be out of reach. The program isneedlessly complicated, frustratingly slow and excessively restrictive. Mr. Chair, the government needs to go back, fix these programs and ensure that support goes to the small businesses that need it.The Chair: Wewill now go to Ms. Collins.Ms. Laurel Collins (Victoria, NDP): Mr. Chair, Canadians have been shaken by this pandemic. It has exposed the gaps in our health care system and our social safety net. It has shown howvulnerable we all are when disaster hits. It has brought us to a crossroads. We can go backwards to so-called business as usual, with horrific conditions in long-term care homes, widespread inequality and no real actionon climate change, or we can build for better. In Victoria, people in the community, organizations and municipal leaders have been calling for a new way forward. The City of Victoria has a plan for reinvention, resilienceand recovery. Organizations like Greater Victoria Acting Together; Common Vision, Common Action; and Kairos Victoria are exploring ideas for a sustainable and just recovery. We can build for better. We can invest inthe infrastructure. We need to fight climate change, homelessness and inequality. We can build a Canada where we take better care of the planet and each other.The Chair: We now move to Ms.DeBellefeuille.Mrs.Claude DeBellefeuille (SalaberrySurot, BQ): Mr.Chair, in this time of pandemic, it is with heartfelt emotion that I want to highlight the excellent work of all the guardian angels at the CISSS de la Montrgie-Ouest. Fromthe bottom of my heart, I want to thank the entire staff, as well as the retirees who have come back to provide their assistance. I admire the managers, at all levels and in all services, working tirelessly so that theirteams can answer the call in this difficult situation. My fellow managers and the management teams of the Support Program for the Autonomy of Seniors, both in home support and in residential care, you have my"}
{"doc_id":"doc_153","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Okay . So welcome back .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: What do {gap} {disfmarker} do we have to do ? {vocalsound}Marketing: {gap} .Project Manager: So first . I want to say I'm thesecretary , so I make the minutes . You find them in your {disfmarker} in the map in the From the group . There's the minutes from the first meeting . You'll find the next minutes also there . Then {vocalsound} Iwanna hear from you , what you've done . And after that I have some new product requirements . So {disfmarker} And after that we have to make decisions , what we will do . And then we're ready . We have fortyminutes for this meeting . After that we'll have lunch . So first I wanna ask the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Industrial Designer to tell what he did . So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: That's my task . Okay . Uh I've{disfmarker} Where have I put it ? My Documents or not ? Hmm . I've save it on my computer , my presentation .Project Manager: Yeah on your computer , or the {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: But where ?ProjectManager: What's the name ?Industrial Designer: Uh uh uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: What's the name of it ?Industrial Designer: It was about the working of the remote control .Project Manager: It's the technicalfunction or the functional requirements .Industrial Designer: Nope .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Not a {gap} of {disfmarker} Wait . The working design . But I've saved it .Project Manager:Working design .Industrial Designer: But now I don't know where it is . Hmm .Project Manager: Working design . What is this ? Product documents .Industrial Designer: Yeah . And I import this until {disfmarker}ProjectManager: On the desktop . Up . {gap} up . Up . Up .Industrial Designer: One more .Project Manager: Up .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yes . My Documents . Nope .Industrial Designer: What thefuck is this ?Project Manager: Gone . {vocalsound} Well you {disfmarker} Um {disfmarker} Nah . Nah , nah , nah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: PowerPoint . Working design .Industrial Designer:Yeah that's the empty one .Project Manager: {vocalsound} And {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I had one .Project Manager: Presentation of working design .Industrial Designer: Uh-huh . Open it . Okay here it is.Project Manager: Save as {gap} .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh it's {disfmarker}Marketing: Desktop .Project Manager: Project {gap} .Industrial Designer: Project .Marketing: Yeah . Okay . Well .ProjectManager: Save .Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: Very good .Industrial Designer: A little later but here it is .Marketing: {gap}Project Manager: Okay . So {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So okay . It's a little difficult what I'm gonna tell you . It's about the working of the remote control . I just had an half an hour j to study itUser Interface: {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: and {vocalsound} I don't get it .Marketing: {vocalsound} Make it .Project Manager: Now have ten minutes to tell it .Industrial Designer: Ten minutes to tell it . Okay . I think it will be a few minutes and{disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: First uh I will tell you something about the findings , what I discovered about the remote control . The working bout it {disfmarker} uh of it . Uh then I'll have uhsome kind of map , and it's the top of the remote control . With a little bit of science , uh you {disfmarker} I will show that uh in in a few minutes . And then uh what I'll think about it . First , the findings . The remotecontrol is a very difficult uh thing to uh to explain to just all of you wh who haven't seen a remote control uh inside . Uh there's a lot of uh plastic on it ,Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: um because its uhnot so expensive . And there are uh a lot of uh wires , uh which um connect the components in it , the battery , and there are um switches and things like that . There's a lot of small uh electronics . So it won't be um uhtoo expensive to build it . Only twelve Euro fifty I think uh we will make it . Now {gap} {disfmarker} And here I have the top of the remote control . Uh here's some kind of chip . Uh on top of this , there are uh thenumbers . Uh you have all on your remote control . And uh the teletext uh button . And uh here's the battery . And when you push the button , it will uh will be sent to the chip . And the chip will um send it to all kind ofsub-components . That's what I said , it's very difficult .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: And after that it will be sent to the infrared . And that will send it to your television . That's a short h uh how itworks . Uh I think I can uh make it uh difficult , but we all {vocalsound} we all don't get it . My preferences ? It's uh {disfmarker} it won't be uh {disfmarker} We shouldn't make it too big . Uh also for the cost , uh weshould only put one battery on it . A long-lasting battery . Uh also for the cost , uh use only plastic . Not other materials . Also because of the cost , uh not too much buttons on it . We can also make uh a button uh witha {gap} {disfmarker} menu uh button . And then um that that you will see it on the T_V_ . And on the T_V_ you can uh switch into the menu .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: That's {disfmarker} I thinkit's easier . And the bleep signal , y uh you told us . Uh but we can also use it uh a bleep like something , when the battery's empty , then there is a bleep . Then you'll have to change it in a in a week or something . Andalso the bleep , when {disfmarker} what I told you about uh when you lost it , and you push a button , and then you hear bleep bleep , and we will find it . This is uh just uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Oh oh . Twoquestions .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Yeah .Project Manager: The battery . You say one battery is cheaper . Why ?Industrial Designer: If we w if we use only just one uh small pen-light , then it will be cheaper thanwhen we use two .Project Manager: Yeah but when you use two , you can use it two times longer .Industrial Designer: Yeah but then we'll have to make the um remote control uh long lasting .Project Manager: Okay soit's the size of the remote control .Industrial Designer: {gap} Just {disfmarker} Yeah .Project Manager: Okay and the buttons . When you use it on the television , you've {disfmarker} you need the television , wh whichcan use it .Industrial Designer: Yeah . But uh I think this {disfmarker} our remote control is for the televisions we uh we sell in our company ?Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: Or is it also for other company{disfmarker} uh for other televisions ?Project Manager: I think we have to use it also on other televisions though .Industrial Designer: Then this is an option . {vocalsound}Project Manager: So {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: Maybe just a menu button to use it on our televisions . And then we make it easier uh for our televisions . And on the other tele televisions , you can also use it , but then we won't use theProject Manager:Yeah but I don't {disfmarker} I think it {disfmarker} {vocalsound} They are two different things though . We have to choose one . It has to work on o uh all televisions .User Interface: Mm .Industrial Designer: Yeah ?Okay . Then I think uh the menu button uh will only work on the newer televisions . And we will uh look forward and don't make a remote control which for the older televisions .Marketing: Hmm .Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: And I just uh have one more idea . Uh maybe it's one of your tasks . But {disfmarker} Uh , to have a trendy remote control , we can also um make something like the Nokia um mobile phones . Tochange covers . So if you have uh a trendy half with all red , uh yellow and something . And then you can put a red cover on it .Marketing: Hmm .Industrial Designer: And also different things .Project Manager: Yeah .Good idea .Industrial Designer: Yes .Marketing: Will this will this add to the cost ?Industrial Designer: Uh then it won't be {disfmarker} uh will have just one cover on the uh original one . And then you can buy thecovers .Marketing: Yes but you have to m uh be able to change it . D does it make it more difficult to design ?Industrial Designer: I think it will be a little more difficult , but not too much .Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Not much . 'Kay .Industrial Designer: Just like with the Nokia uh mobile phones .Project Manager: Yeah but there are much more Nokia telephones than um these ones .Industrial Designer: Just one .ProjectManager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah but then we'll have to to just um put five covers on it , and see if it works . If it won't works then we'll get something else . Then we uh won't g uh go further with it.Project Manager: Yeah but are their profits bigger than their cost ?Industrial Designer: Uh a p a {disfmarker} {vocalsound} a cover made in uh in China , it it won't be I guess so expensive I think .Project Manager:Yeah but there are also design cost . I don't think {disfmarker} When you have a remote control , do you change the cover ? Would you change the cover ?Industrial Designer: Maybe . I wi I won't .Project Manager: No.Industrial Designer: But maybe I think trendy people or like children where you can paint on it , and uh the the children think , oh this is my remote control , uh I made a picture on it . Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager:N yeah but {disfmarker} I think that too less people would change it for good profit . So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah . Okay . And the other people ? What do you think about it ? {vocalsound}Marketing: Um{disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah it's a good idea . But {disfmarker} If if it {disfmarker} Yeah , I don't {disfmarker} I'm not sure if it will make profit enough to uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Okay .ProjectManager: {gap}User Interface: But it's uh yeah it's uh original idea . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yes it is but I don't think we have to do it .User Interface: No .Industrial Designer: Okay .Marketing: Mm .IndustrialDesigner: You're the Project Manager . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yes . That's it .Project Manager: That's clear . {vocalsound}Okay thank you . So now the User Interface Designer .User Interface: Oh . That's me . Uh {disfmarker} Come on . {gap} . Ah .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: Yes well uh uh I shall give a short talk about the thetechnical function design .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Um I thought the the the technical function design was uh to uh {disfmarker} for a remote control to to to have some influenceon the T_V_ set . Uh both audio and vide video uh in a cordless way . No cords attached . And uh well , it all by pushing a button on the remote . That was from my own experience and uh and uh the previous meeting .Uh I find some uh some interesting quotes on the web . Uh well the same idea here . Uh message to the television . And uh and and and well basic uh operations like on and off , and uh switching channels , and uh{disfmarker} and maybe uh teletext or something like that . Uh well these are two uh remotes , and that's our uh our dilemma I think . Uh {disfmarker} We just heard from the Industrial Designer how uh difficult it is .But uh shall we make a basic remote control , uh just uh swapping channels and volume and uh power button and well nothing much more . Or uh uh more functions on the remote . Uh maybe more devices you caninfluence . Uh a radio or a v a video recorder , uh V_C_R_ . {vocalsound} Yeah well that's our dilemma . Um any ideas about that ? Basic or multifunctional ?Project Manager: We'll got back on that later .User Interface:Okay yeah . Yeah well the {disfmarker} that was just on my mind .Marketing: Yes .User Interface: So uh I didn't know what uh what way we would go . Mm yeah well that was my uh functional uh talk {vocalsound}.Industrial Designer: 'Kay .Project Manager: 'Kay , thank you . Then it's your turn , the marketing expert .Marketing: Okay . Uh um m Yeah . {vocalsound} Um yeah okay . This bit too far . {vocalsound}ProjectManager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: So {disfmarker} So I'm uh gonna have a presentation about um the market , about um yeah what people think . Uh wedid a usability lab-test with a hundred persons . And we looked at uh several um things . Uh among them design , uh d d how d did they like the use of it , uh what frustrations they had while using remote controls . Uhwell what what will be our market . And uh we asked them if we had some new featu features . If um that would be a good idea or not . Well our findings . Uh our users , they disliked the look and feel of current remotecontrols . Um uh they especially found found them very ugly . And um th they also found them hard to to learn how to use it . Uh well they also zap a lot . So uh zapping uh should be very easy . And uh fifty percent ofthe users only use ten percent of the buttons . So a lot of unused buttons . There is more findings . Uh on the buttons . Which uh buttons find users uh very important and which which not ? And how much would theyuse them ? Well uh the most used button is the channel selection . And uh we asked them how uh relevant they think uh the buttons are . The power , volume and channel selections are very relevant . Uh teletext is uhless relevant but also important . Uh not important they found the audio , uh that's not the volume but uh specific the the pitch , or the left or right . Uh the screen and the brightness . And uh channel settings . Uh thand they also are not used very often . Then we have a few um graphs about the market . Uh here we can see what the market share is of uh several groups . Um as you can see , most users are uh between thirty sixand forty five . Um the the the younger group between sixteen and twenty five is not very big . And to come back on the the swapping uh things , uh I don't think uh , I {vocalsound} I think the younger will be mostinterest in it . But uh they are not a very big group . Um in the {gap} we asked them , uh how would you like a s a new feature . If you have an L_C_D_ on the remote control , what would you think of it . Now you canclearly see young users say {gap} . I will {disfmarker} that would very nice . And older user think uh they will be scared of change {vocalsound} I think .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: And they won't likeit . And another thing , how would you like to have a speech recognition on it . Well here we see the same . Young users uh think that's an interesting idea . And old users not . Uh well we uh found out that there are two{disfmarker} several markets at which we can aim . Uh the first are the younger , the age between sixteen and forty five . Uh they are highly interested in the features , as you can see uh here . And um they are morecritical on their money spending . Uh the second group is the older group . Aged between forty six and sixty five . They are less interested in uh new features . But uh they spend their money more easily . Now if we lookback at this graph , we can see that among the first group is about um sixty percent . And the second group about forty percent . So the the first group is bigger . Well then I come to my uh personal preferences . Uhyeah the first question is uh {disfmarker} also we have to ask is at the which market do we aim at . Uh of course n uh saying we aim at the young group doesn't say that old people won't buy it . But less of them willbuy it . Um well I uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Okay . What I thought , um even young people say it's hard to use , remote control . So if you make a remote control that is uh very easy to use , that's especially aimedat this group , even uh the young group will also be more interested . And um we can make special features . But uh I think it looks nice in the first time . But when use it , uh I don't know what's uh good thing ofspeech recognition .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Um well th uh that's my second point .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Uh less important functions should be discarded from the remote control .It's about discussion we had earlier . Um {disfmarker} You can find most functions on a T_V_ set . So uh you don't have to have a lot of audio options , or screen options to change the brightness . And such things . Umwell the design is very important . One thing I did not say I think , is that a lot of users also said then I would uh buy a good looking uh remote control if there will be one . But they found most remote controls very ugly. So the design of our remote control is very important . And uh yeah it should be very zap friendly , as most users use it for that . That were my findings .Project Manager: Okay thank you .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Ihave uh one question .Project Manager: Yes .Industrial Designer: If we aim for the younger people , um and there will be uh a lot of features like L_C_D_ or the the the speech uh f recognising , uh the cost will be a lotof h uh a lot higher .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Uh I think we don't have that in our budget .Marketing: Yes .User Interface: No .Industrial Designer: Do you think ?Marketing: No .User Interface: AndI don't uh I don't think twenty five Euros for a remote is really cheap or something .Industrial Designer: Like {disfmarker} No . No .User Interface: So it's {disfmarker} Yeah , it's hard to uh get the younger group.Industrial Designer: Uh-huh .Project Manager: I think uh the L_C_D_ is cheaper than speech recognition . So I think that can be an d good option . L_C_D_ .User Interface: Mm-hmm . Just the L_C_D_ ?ProjectManager: Yes . Only the L_C_D_ .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: So {disfmarker} But we'll come back on that .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Now {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Oh , go on . What d d dum {disfmarker} Um {disfmarker} Uh we go {gap} {disfmarker} back on the decisions later . Now we have a few new product requirements . First , teletext . We have internet now so we don't need the teletextanymore . So not necessary .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Next . Only for the television . So we don't look at the other things like the radio or something . Only the television . We look at the agegroup of forty plus . Uh no , younger than forty . Is a g big group , and like you showed , n not very much people buy our stuff . Fourth point . {vocalsound} Our corporate colour and slogan must be used . Veryimportant for the design . So you can see it on our site .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Next . Um no . We have to make our decisions , what we want to do . So {vocalsound} like you said , we need the{disfmarker} {gap} . Maybe it's good to put it in a document . Now we have to decide what controls do we need . So maybe you can tell us .Marketing: Yeah maybe we can first have a discussion uh on the the productrequirements you just uh said .Project Manager: Sorry ?Marketing: The the requirements you just said ,Project Manager: Yes .Marketing: maybe we should first have a discussion about that .Project Manager: Yes , it'sokay .Marketing: I uh personally think uh teletext is a good option . Uh not everyone um who is looking T_V_ can go to internet when they want to see the latest news .Project Manager: Yeah but we don't use it . It's a{disfmarker} {vocalsound} new requirement .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So , it's not my requirement .Industrial Designer: 'Kay , we'll just have to do that .Project Manager: We have to do this.Industrial Designer: Okay . No discussion about it .Marketing: Okay . Okay sorry .Project Manager: No .Marketing: Then uh {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay . {vocalsound}Unfortunately .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So what controls do we need ? Who first ?User Interface: Well a power button ?Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay . Uh power .User Interface: Uhthe well um I think separate channels . So {disfmarker}Project Manager: Uh mm channel .User Interface: But then both the the separate channels . So so uh zero to nine or something .Project Manager: Channel{disfmarker} Zero to nine .User Interface: Uh volume .Project Manager: Volume . Maybe it's easy to pick . What was w your one ? TechnoMarketing: Mine ? It's the functional requirements .Project Manager: Okay . Wehad w uh no no no no . Where was that example of the {disfmarker}User Interface: Oh mine .Project Manager: Johan . That was the {disfmarker} the the the the {disfmarker} {gap}User Interface: Technical .ProjectManager: technical {disfmarker} Hallo . Okay . What do we need ? On-off . Zero to nine .Industrial Designer: To change to the next channel , just one button . To move up , move down .Project Manager: Yeah that's thechannel .Marketing: D Yeah . Do we make a menu ?Project Manager: Menu ? Uh yes the n newer televisions ha do have menus . Uh {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Uh {disfmarker}Project"}
{"doc_id":"doc_154","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Okay uh Agnes , you can help me for the slide when {gap}User Interface: Yep . Sure .Project Manager: okay . Okay , welcome back . I hope uh you have a fresh head and a fresh time . How t now themeeting actually we gathering here to discuss about the functional design meeting . Okay , and uh we'll issue some information from uh all of you . And it's in the , I think uh , in the sharing folder . And uh I will inviteuh the Christine and the Ed and uh Agnes to discuss about on the various subjects . So can you go to the next slide ? Yeah uh the agenda of the meeting is opening . Then uh I'm going to talk about uh the projectmanagement , what I'm going to do , and uh , of course , I'm doing the project management and secretary both , okay , to take the minutes of the meeting . And there are three presentations . One is uh new projectrequirements . And the second one about uh decision on remote control functions . And uh finally we are closing . Uh and the meeting time will be uh forty minutes , so you have to be very quick . And I have come upwith the {disfmarker} management come with the new proposal , okay , and I have to discuss a few points on this . Uh both says new insights in the aim of your project . Uh the one is uh the teletext becomes uhoutmoded , okay because if uh because of the computer systems and the new technology . So we don't need to consider really about the teletext all in our new project design . And the second one is about uh theremote control . Should be used only for the T_V_ . That's what our uh management says . And the third point , it's very very important to establish our uh marketing or uh corporate image , okay , with this new projector new product . Okay . {vocalsound} So I will invite uh {disfmarker} Agnes , can you go to the third slide ?User Interface: No , this is the third slide .Project Manager: Okay , {gap} . So , I'll invite uh Christine todiscuss about uh the functional design .Industrial Designer: 'Kay , do you wanna open the {disfmarker}User Interface: Sure . Um . You're participant sIndustrial Designer: I'm number two .User Interface: Two ?ProjectManager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: That's it .User Interface: Do you want the mouse , or do you want me to {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I'll do the notes . Yeah , thanks .Project Manager:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So um well I I figured uh we should um identify some user requirements , and from my experience , I wanna uh , and from {vocalsound} research I did , uh the the device has to turnthe television on and off the first time you press on the big button , you can't uh can't have like uh waffling on this point , you know .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Really have {disfmarker} Itneeds to be able y y have to be able to find it . Because one of the biggest problems with remote controls is finding them . So uh , I also , since we have to establish our corporate image on the basis of this new product, thought we better look at things that are popular and um ex go beyond those , and , as I said in the first meeting , um {vocalsound} and then uh we might wanna talk eventually about the materials that areappropriate to use in uh in the construction , especially in the the uh the outside of the productProject Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: so that it gives the appearance , and it is reliable , and so forth .{vocalsound} I did a little history on uh the the uh remote controls and when they were invented and so forth , so , I guess this guy Zenith uh created the Flashmatic , which I kinda like the idea , 'cause it made methink of um um maybe the remote control made a big flash when uh you turn the T_V_ on and off , that might be interesting . And um {vocalsound} so it was highly directional flash light that uh you could turn thepicture on and off , and the sound on and off , and change channels c so I think um those are still requirements we have today , uh fifty years later .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Mm-hmm .IndustrialDesigner: And uh it was really a pioneering innovation , but it was uh sensitive to the sun , so that uh it would get {disfmarker} would start off by the {disfmarker} you'd get {disfmarker} it would easily cause umproblems . So , uh I {disfmarker} in addition to uh looking at the um {vocalsound} uh the functional requir so all these devices are examples of where uh mm {disfmarker} they {vocalsound} represent examples thatare available today {vocalsound} {vocalsound} which I think the one in the middle is r um really uh something to keep in mind .Marketing: Fantastic . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: It'd be easy to find . And um it would uh y you'd {vocalsound} {disfmarker} you could throw it at things if if the T_V_ didn't turn on and off , you could use it for something else . And since I'm not really um{vocalsound} Industrial Designer , I didn't really know what to do with this slide . But um {vocalsound} I just {vocalsound} took some {vocalsound} different uh schematics and I put them into this , and I guess this iswhat a slide might look like if you were drawing a circuit board . {gap} I don't know why um we were asked to do this . So , uh {vocalsound} personal preferences , {vocalsound} umUser Interface:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I think we could uh I I'm really thinking outside the box here , and I think that we should consider perhaps having an an an a a size uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker} a remote controlthat changes in size depending on the user preference .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So something that's very very flexible and inflatable and then you could shrink it . I think um it could either be{disfmarker} you could go either one extreme , be very colourful , or you could make it clear , and um kind of blend in with things , so you didn't have to um {vocalsound} uh have a problem with the th the decorationof the {disfmarker} of the user's home . Um I think uh it needs to be waterproof , because uh sometimes they fall into cupsProject Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and , you know , it might be out by theswimming pool or something like that . Um {vocalsound} if you uh mi one of {disfmarker} one of my requirements was about needs t to tell you when it's done its job or not , because half the time , I keep pushing onthe remote control , and I don't know if it's actually understood my message , so I think it should give you some sort of an oral cue . And uh , course I never wanna replace the battery . {vocalsound} So ,Marketing:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: that's {disfmarker} those are my f preferences , and that's my presentation .Project Manager: Yeah , let me uh interrupt you uh if you can add other facility , other feature , like uhunbreakable .Industrial Designer: Yes .Project Manager: Okay , because uh especially today , you know , you have the family and the kids ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: okay , and the kids throw it andthey they play with their remotes and {gap} .Industrial Designer: Run over it with a car .Project Manager: Yes . Okay , so if you can add the feature , okay , for your uh fabric whatever in your outline design okay , withunbreakable , okay , I think that will give a lot of advantage for our product , if I'm not wrong . Maybe you can uh add it in that .Industrial Designer: Good idea . Good idea , I'll I'll uh um {disfmarker} Yes , very good.Project Manager: Okay , uh thank you Christine , and uh uh any questions or uh clarifications , or any discussion on the functional design ?User Interface: Do you have any preconceived ideas in terms of materials ?'Cause , for example , in the unbreakable thing , doing something plastic would be harder ,Industrial Designer: Hmm .User Interface: whereas having something like , I dunno , steel or titanium isn't really economicallyviable . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Titanium . Titanium would be {vocalsound} be heavy , too ,Marketing: Titanium . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: wouldn't it ?User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: No , Ihaven't really um {disfmarker} I wanted feedback , I think we need to rate {disfmarker} rank these , but we'll see what your uh personal preferences are and your thoughts .User Interface: Yeah . Sure , yeah . No , Ijust wondering whether {disfmarker} that you had any sort of {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I like titanium . It's light .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Uh {vocalsound} yeahMarketing:Expensive .User Interface: {vocalsound} The marketing comes out . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: but uh who who said {disfmarker} who said we were ,Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yes .IndustrialDesigner: you know , nobody told me how mu what our financial objective is , so um {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: It'd be hard to inflate something ou made outof titanium though {vocalsound} .Project Manager: Yeah the the {disfmarker} I'm sorry because uh the last meeting we supposed to discuss about the financial thing .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh let me go quickly , maybe if I can go back {vocalsound} . I know the project plan and the budget . So I can close this , {gap} not sure . Was in uh {disfmarker} S This . So let me seewhere is this file .User Interface: That's Christine's .Project Manager: This is Christine . {vocalsound}User Interface: And that's mine , I think .Project Manager: That's yours , okay . Saving .Marketing: {vocalsound}{gap}User Interface: In modified .Marketing: I don't know ,Project Manager: Okay , uhMarketing: I think verbally we can {disfmarker} we can pretty much sell .Project Manager: I will {disfmarker} I will send you amail , okay ? The project may be the the project aim , okay . At the end of the day , the company uh wants to make at least uh the fifty million Euro . Okay , and uh of course the price will be very reasonable on the thesales side . Okay , that maybe Eddie will talk to you about uh how much uh the price and uh what's uh {disfmarker} how much its cost for the manufacturing and how much it's going to be {disfmarker} we sell in themarket . Okay . Then uh you can come back with your feedback . And I I have one {disfmarker} maybe the suggestion or opinion . This remote control , okay , it can be for like universal , to use for any T_V_ . Okay ,and it will be slim , okay , and uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Not fat ?Project Manager: Not fat .Industrial Designer: Not fat , huh .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Might behard to find , though .Project Manager: Yep . But let's try it , okay , with the different uh {disfmarker} the designs , okay , the functional designs .Marketing: Hmm .Industrial Designer: Oh , okay .Project Manager:Okay ? So any other questions ?Marketing: Uh from her side , I don't think uh there's too many more questions .Project Manager: Okay . Thank you Christine for uh time being ,Marketing: If you can come to the{disfmarker}Project Manager: so then uh Ed , so can you tell about {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay , from the marketing {disfmarker} yeah , from the marketing side , just to to give an idea what the management islooking for , I was looking for a a remote control to have a sUser Interface: S 'scuse me for one sec .Marketing: I have a sales price of twenty-five Euro , with a production price of uh twelve and a half Euro . For what uhI think from what we're trying to find , we're tr we're looking for , I don't think that price is exactly in the market . Okay ?Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: I'll explain myself here now in the sense that uh in a{disfmarker} in the recent surveys , uh from the ages {disfmarker} fr from fifteen to thirty-five , eighty percent are willing to spend more money for something as fancy as trendy .Project Manager:{vocalsound}Marketing: Twenty-five Euros , uh that's that's a preson reasonable price . That's a market price right now . Now if we're gonna take a risk , and push this up a bit , make it more expensive ,ProjectManager: Yep .Marketing: but give them added things that they don't have now ,Project Manager: Yep .Marketing: then it w it could possibly sell . Obviously the risk is there . Too expensive , they're not gonna buy . But, I think uh there's one other thing interesting {disfmarker} two things that are interesting {gap} is that uh from the fifteen to thirty-five year-old group , which always spends more money on trendy new things ,speech recognition is requested .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Speech recognition? .Marketing: And we're talking between seventy-five to ninety percent of this group is willing to pay for speech recognition on aremote .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Obviously , we can't make a remote into a computer , but maybe simple commands . I dunno , louder , softer , on , off . That might be a possibility , even though it costsmore , to be the first on the market to produce this .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Thirty-five percent say they're too difficult to use . So we have to figure out a way of making it um more user friendly .{vocalsound} Uh fifty percent say they can't find the remote half the time . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: So maybe one word speech recognition commands , say remote , and there's abeep beep beep , and they can find it through , you know , ten tons of newspapers , magazines , whatever you have at home .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: But , in the cost that uh the management islooking for , that's not gonna be possible . But if it's trendy , if it's fancy , it's got some colour to it , if it's very easy {disfmarker} easy to use , if it's got simple remote {disfmarker} speech remote uh control , like I said, louder , softer , change channel , on , off , remote , it goes beep beep , I can find my my remote without spending half a day looking for it and getting all upset 'cause I can't turn the T_V_ on . So we're gonna have tolook at it in a {vocalsound} in this global idea , with the ideas of the industrial uh design .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: But , price obviously we have to talk about .Project Manager: Yep . So what do youthink about uh the design {gap} ? Do you think you can make it or uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: D uh I'm sorry ? {vocalsound}Project Manager: What do you think about uh the design , uh what he was talkingabout {disfmarker} of the speech recognition ?Marketing: Speech recognition .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well , uh training is always an issue with uh commands .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .IndustrialDesigner: So um {disfmarker} might uh {disfmarker} we can perhaps um {vocalsound} do it if the user is willing to spend some time in the training process , uh it could reduce th th uh the overall um cost . Not surehow . {vocalsound} But um anyway , um {vocalsound} I I think also that uh this might impact the battery life . And um so , maybe what we'll have to do is um add something where you can um recharge it wirelessly sothat uh {vocalsound} y you know sen send power to it . So uh or maybe uh set it out in the sun and it uh , you know , gets uh , from the light , um a a solar cell inside thereUser Interface: Hmm .Industrial Designer: sothat uh you have enough uh juice to do all these fancy things .User Interface: It seems also like with the speech recognition , yeah , it's a great feature , but if you're watching T_V_ , there's a lot of ambient sound , andit's words . It's not just , you know , noises like something hitting . It's actual speech , so then you have to make sure that the speech recognizer is good enough to filter out the T_V_ speech , and the the user's speech. Otherwise , you can say remote .Industrial Designer: Off . {vocalsound}User Interface: But if someone on the screen is saying the same thing , all of a sudden , you have someone in a movie saying off and yourscreen dies , because they've triggered the remote control and it's turned off your T_V_ . {vocalsound} So , I think if we can find a speech recognizer that can handle those types of problems , then yeah , it'd be a reallygood marketing gimmick .Marketing: Mm .User Interface: But , I think we seriously need to consider how that would impact the situation .Industrial Designer: Very good point .Marketing: Because tha w {vocalsound}with speech recognition uh th I'm not that good at that ideaUser Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: but th {vocalsound} if it's a one-word recognition , 'cause I know with telephones and cars and things I've seen in theStates ,User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: {gap} a friend of mine says call Mom , and it calls up Mom .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: 'Kay the radio can be on and everything .Project Manager: Yep .Marketing: BecauseI think s with speech recognition , if uh the the remote or like the telephone {vocalsound} {disfmarker} it has a exact word that it has to hear .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: I don't think it would come through asentence in a television . If somebody's speaking on the se the television , they're not gonna stop and say remote ,User Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: okay . So I think that uh something could be designed torecognise single word {disfmarker}User Interface: Oh yeah . Yeah . No , I think it's a great idea if we can design it to to suit those requirements .Marketing: Like the t like the telephone . No because I {gap} this is thisis years ago in the United States where we're driving down and he said call home , and the telephone called immediately {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound}Marketing: so well , that's kinda cute .{vocalsound}Project Manager: Well , what I can uh suggest to you , Christine , okay , uh if you need some uh {disfmarker} the technical feedback , or some training , okay , about uh this facility , especially for thespeech recognition , I can recommend you some companies like uh Intel or I_B_M_ , okay , because they're already in this uh speech recognition part , okay . And uh you can maybe have some uh technical backupfrom them , some kind of a technical tie-up . Okay , and uh if you want , I can coordinate , okay , to get some information , okay , and uh you can uh let me know , okay , so what kind of uh the details you require okay, to add this feature in this project . I don't think it's uh the difficult . And uh we need to know how much is the timeframe you need to develop , apart from uh what {gap} today .Industrial Designer: Okay , we'll findthat out .Project Manager: Yep .Marketing: From from your side uh , you're gonna have to go back the management and s be more s precise .Project Manager: Yes .Marketing: What do they want ?Project Manager: Yes.Marketing: Uh {vocalsound} , a risk , take a risk on the market ? Something that's gonna cost more , but could very easily s make a boom in the market ?Project Manager: Yes . Yep .Marketing: Because it has to besomething totally different , has to be total totally new . Something that nobody has right now .Project Manager: Yeah butMarketing: And it's gonna cost .Project Manager: but end of the day , you're the sales guy , so Iwill come back and sit on your head because uh you are going to give your sales projection ,Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: okay . It's uh of course it's uh good to uh tell themanagement how much it's cost usMarketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: and how much you are going to benefit ,Marketing: Sure . Sure .Project Manager: okay . And uh , so I don't mind to convince , okay , themanagement to spend some more money on the project , okay , if you can make out ofMarketing: Obviously .Project Manager: the money from this project .Marketing: If the bottom line is positive .{vocalsound}Project Manager: Yes , okay I don't mind to convince the the management ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: okay .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: The management says , okay , so theythey don't want certain facilities , which it's already worked , okay , they want something uh new , okay . I think uh like uh speech recognit definitely they will agree , I don't think they'll say no for that , okay . And uh Ihope I can convince the management on that , okay . So if you have any uh new ideas , okay , for uh your {disfmarker} you can always come up and uh you can tell me if you need any uh s special , okay , coordination, okay , between any uh technical companies , which you can uh hide their technology backup , okay , for your uh functional design or technical design , okay , then I am ready to do that . And uh what's your commentsabout uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Um well , I mean , maybe if I go through my presentation , you can sort of see what the user perspective is , and how it ties into the other two comments .Marketing: Mm .ProjectManager: Yeah , so you are finish , Ed , uh so I can uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yes . Mm .Project Manager: Okay , I'll uh hand over to Agnes . Just gonna close this . T Uh where are you , here ?User Interface: Mm"}
{"doc_id":"doc_155","qid":"","text":"Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee. We've received apologies for absence from Suzy Davies and Jack Sargeant and I'm very pleased towelcome Jayne Bryant back, who is substituting for Jack today. Are there any declarations of interest from Members, please? No. Okay, thank you. Item 2, then, this morning, is our sixth scrutiny session on the Children(Abolition of Defence of Reasonable Punishment) (Wales) Bill. I'm very pleased to welcome our witnesses this morning: Sally Jenkins, who is chair of All Wales Heads of Children’s Services and is here representing theAssociation of Directors of Social Services; Alastair Birch, who is senior system leader for equalities and safeguarding at Pembrokeshire County Council, who is here representing the Association of Directors of EducationWales; and Councillor Huw David, who is the Welsh Local Government Association spokesperson for health and social care and leader of Bridgend County Borough Council. So, thank you all for attending this morning.We're very pleased to have you here. We've got a lot of ground to cover, so, if you're happy, we'll go straight into questions and I'll start just by asking about your general support for the Bill, which is outlined in theevidence. Can you just explain why you think the current law is ineffective or unclear?Alastair Birch: Bore da—bore da, bawb. So, I'm Alastair Birch. The statement, really, from ADEW is that the rights of the child shouldbe educated and achieved, really, under the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child. The current legislation has been criticised, obviously, by the UN concerning the defence of reasonable punishment stillbeing within our current legislation. So, we will always—ADEW will always—advocate that the rights of the child be upheld, so that is really the fundamental aspect in terms of the statement from ADEW, and the positionof ADEW is that the rights of the child are fundamental in this process. And there are certain articles—. I know that the Rights of Children and Young Persons (Wales) Measure 2011 made sure that article 3 and article 4,article 12 and article 37 were a focus in terms of making sure that the best interests of the child were put first, that children expressing their views and opinions was a priority. And we know, for safeguarding purposes,that the express opinions of the child and the voice of the child are a fundamental aspect of any safe environment, whether it be a school or college. So, that is—the position is really following that legal position underthe Rights of Children and Young Persons (Wales) Measure.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. Nothing to add at this stage, no?Sally Jenkins: I'll just add, on behalf of ADSS and on behalf of children's services andsocial services more widely, for us, this is not a change in our position, this is not new; this is a position that we, on behalf of the leaders of social services across Wales, have taken over many years, going back 20, 25years. I think what we would say is that we really welcome this Bill and we welcome the proposed change for the clarity it would bring—the clarity that it would bring for children, for parents and for professionals. I thinkwhat we would recognise is that this is a very little-used piece of legislation, so it's rare, it's not as if this is something that is going to cast great change across the scene for children and families in Wales, but what itwill do is represent a change in the reality of how we care and nurture our children. I would echo absolutely what Alastair has said in terms of the rights of the child, but equally, in terms of all of our policies in Wales interms of promoting well-being for children, this has to be key. So, for us, this is about a natural progression of change in how we care for our children in Wales. For children's services at the very sharp end of this world,for us, it brings a true clarity. This continues with an ambiguity in how we treat our children and how we care for our children, and the shift for us brings that very much needed clarity.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thankyou. The committee has already heard different views about whether there's clear evidence that physical punishment is harmful to children. What evidence does the work of social services provide about whetherphysical punishment is actually harmful?Sally Jenkins: Obviously, what you'll all be aware of is that, as part of the consultation for this Bill, the Public Policy Institute did a further piece of research to look at the impactof physical punishment on children. A number of things that we know—we know from across the world that the evidence is that introducing legislation or changing legislation in this way improves children's positionswithin their families. What we know is that children themselves, as Alastair has already referred to, really find physical punishment demeaning and harmful, and for children it is an emotionally damaging experience.Now, there may be disagreement about that, there will be different views on that, but that's the voice of the child in this debate. The voice of the child is very clear that physical punishment is for them harmful. I thinkwhat we would also say is that, in the world that we work in, it's part of a continuum, and, whilst this is an element of how children are cared for, what we see is a continuum where an acceptance of how we treatchildren in a particular way perpetuates throughout our work. By changing this, it helps that shift to that absolute recognition that our children must be cared for in a way that is physically safe in all dimensions forthem.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. We've had evidence from the equal protection network that the reasonable punishment defence undermines child protection and fails to protect children because it permits anarbitrary level of violence, which invades children's physical integrity, making it a potential pathway to more serious physical or sexual abuse, and you did refer to that just now. Is there anything you want to add onthat?Sally Jenkins: I would echo that. I think there is something in this that is about our culture, about how we see our children. It is about how we see our smallest and most vulnerable people, and if it is acceptable itopens the door to those other, more extreme versions of violence, which then complicates the issue for us. This is about clarity, and, whilst there is an argument that this is a small episode for a child, it's not a smallepisode for a child, it is a major episode for a child, and I think absolutely, as you said, the potential for it then to lead on, and over gradation and time to increase the risk for children, is clearly there.Lynne Neagle AM:Okay, thank you. The final question from me: your written evidence emphasises the need for greater clarity around the definition of what constitutes corporal punishment, but that contrasts with what we've been toldby the children's commissioner and the equal protection network, who've emphasised the importance of simplicity in the Bill. How do you respond to that view, and is what you're calling for essential to be on the face ofthe Bill?Sally Jenkins: It's not essential for it to be on the face of the Bill. What we would like to see is discussion within the implementation phase for that nuancing. Absolutely agree in terms of simplicity—I think that isreally important—and I've already mentioned clarity. What we don't want to do is further confuse the position. We know that the legislation in different countries has done that, and there are ways that you can do it, butwhat we would welcome is an opportunity during the implementation phase for discussion.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Thank you.Huw David: And, as a principle, obviously we would welcome full involvement, and we knowthere's the commitment from Welsh Government to full involvement in the implementation, because, as with every piece of legislation, implementation is the most important part, and we would want to ensure there isthat commitment to a major awareness-raising campaign, and there is that from Welsh Government, because we need to take families, carers and parents with us on this. Also we need to ensure that there is thatsupport available to parents and carers that do sometimes struggle with parenting, and that needs to be a universal offer across Wales. If we're to progress with this, that has to be an option that is offered to everyparent in Wales.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Thank you.Sally Jenkins: Local authorities have already been very heavily involved in terms of looking at this Bill and exploring what the issues are and the discussions andlooking at what the implications from a local authority perspective will be, as Huw describes, both in terms of the awareness raising, early support and intervention and prevention services for families against thebackdrop of the current issues that we have in local government, but also awareness raising—because absolutely it is key that families come with us on this journey. This is not an imposition. This is embracing a cultureand a value system for our children.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. I've got some questions now from Dawn Bowden on the implementation of the Bill.Dawn Bowden AM: Thank you, Chair. So, you've pre-emptedme, Huw.Huw David: Right. Sorry. I've got good eyesight; I can't see—. [Laughter.]Dawn Bowden AM: You've already said, obviously, that you're looking towards working with Welsh Government in terms of itsimplementation. What's been your role so far in terms of the implementation of the Bill—local authorities generally, now? Have you had a role? Has Welsh Government been involving you in discussions around theintroduction of the Bill so far?Huw David: Yes. So, obviously we were consulted—a key consultee—but also our officials have worked very closely with Welsh Government officials to make sure this is implementedsuccessfully, if it is progressed.Sally Jenkins: Our involvement with this, from a social services perspective, goes back over two years, directly in working towards this point, never mind the history in terms of worktowards this area. But, very directly in relation to this Bill, we were first involved at least two years ago, to recollect, and that was in a series of workshops with other agencies, for example Children and Family CourtAdvisory and Support Service Cymru and the police, and looking in real depth at what the implications would be for us as agencies to look at what the likely trajectory would be in terms of our pathways for referral intoour services and what that might mean for us. And then particularly, for example, with CAFCASS Cymru in relation to private law, what the fallout might be, and then what, if anything—and that's the discussion that weneed to have—that could mean for children's services in particular, given the pressures that we're already under. So, we've been in constant, I suppose, involvement in terms of the Bill already, as part of theconsultation, in terms of the focus groups and in terms of direct work with Welsh Government officials to take this forward. And we are absolutely committed to continuing with that work.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay. Youtouched there on the pressures that you're already under, which we fully appreciate, but you also mentioned in answers to Lynne Neagle earlier on that you welcomed the Bill in terms of its clarity. So, are you confidentthat the Bill can be implemented without any major impact on your capacity to deal with it?Sally Jenkins: We've done—. A number of local authorities—my own included, Newport City Council, has done some work tolook at what the likely impact would be and then actually to look at what some of that costing would need to be. Further work is needed on that area, and that needs to be carried out during the implementation phase. Ithink what we've done is we've looked internationally at what the impact has been elsewhere when similar legislation has been introduced to try and gauge, but that's difficult to do in terms of comparable nations andsize and also different systems. And obviously our approach in terms of children and pedagogy is very different from some of the nations that have already done this. I wouldn't like to say one way or the other, becauseI think, in terms of that culture shift, it could be a double impact on us in terms of increased referrals because of increased awareness, but it could also be, I suppose, as Huw alludes to, that, if we're looking at ensuringgreater awareness of preventative services and support services for parents, actually people coming to the fore and asking us for those services as well. So, at this stage, I think what we would want to say is that wecontinue to be fully involved in the implementation phase, to look at what the cost implications for that could be, and not just for the local authorities but also the police, CAFCASS Cymru, for third sector organisationsinvolved in preventative services. I don't think any of that should undermine the position in terms of children and their rights within our society. So, a difficult answer, in the sense that—Dawn Bowden AM: No, Iunderstand. What you're saying is that this is a piece of legislation that, in your view, is a good piece of legislation. It's setting out to, hopefully, achieve what the purpose of it is and you will deliver what you need to.Can I ask you whether, then, you've also given thought to the impact on—we've talked about social services, but the impact on other services, like housing, education and so on? You're obviously coming at it fromslightly different angles in other sections.Alastair Birch: We are part of the universal service for children, and we very much work in co-operation with the WLGA and our social care colleagues, and we've been part ofthat consultation. In terms of education, the main changes, or adaptations, would be around training and awareness. And, in terms of the Bill, there needs to be the clarity—ambiguity would be bad—in terms of makingsure that safeguarding leads within all schools have the right training and support. So, really, that's the key element there, and then obviously the preventative services for the parents that schools can signpost, andsometimes possibly even host, in terms of being community schools. These positive parenting approaches that—. I have colleagues who have worked in that area for many years and see the benefits in how thosepositive parenting approaches make a difference to families.Dawn Bowden AM: So, from your point of view, it's awareness raising, is it?Alastair Birch: It's awareness raising; it's making sure that professionals are fullybriefed on necessary changes, that there's very little ambiguity, that we are aware that—. We still have that duty to report whenever there is any safeguarding concern. That'll still be part of the all-Wales childprotection procedures. That won't change, and that duty is always going to be there for all our professionals. But that awareness raising and training will be the key, and then, obviously, working in co-operation with ourcolleagues.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay, I understand that. Have you been given an indication of how long you've got between Royal Assent and implementation, and whether you've thought through any of the keymilestones that need to be implemented?Sally Jenkins: There's a group proposed that would be a strategic leadership group in the steering group that we're part of, which is now laying out what would happen afterRoyal Assent if that is given. So, we will work towards that.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay. My final question, Chair, is about some of the responses we've had to this committee that say that the state should not get involvedin family life—I'm sure you've heard those views—unless it's in the most serious circumstances. To what extent do you think that this Bill undermines the existing local authority responsibilities, or don't you?Huw David:The state's paramount role is to protect children from harm. That is our legal responsibility, it's our moral responsibility, and we will discharge that. And there is obviously a view—it's a view that is enshrined in the UNConvention on the Rights of the Child—that physical punishment, physical harm to a child is harm to a child, and we should be preventing that and act to prevent that. That would be the position of the Welsh LocalGovernment Association, and we also respect the mandate that Members of the National Assembly for Wales have too. And we believe that children can be raised by parents without recourse to physical punishment,effectively, and we'd support parents in that. We do not believe that in the 50 nations across the world where such legislation exists that the state is interfering in family life unnecessarily. We believe this action reflectsa cultural change, a sea change that's taken place in Wales over the last 30 to 40 years, where the vast majority of parents now say that they do not use it themselves, they do not support it, and we believe this isactually a reflection of what has happened in Welsh society. We support Assembly Members in the view that the natural progression of that is that children's rights are protected across Wales.Dawn Bowden AM: So, I'vegot largely positive feedback from you in terms of the Bill and its intentions, and so on. Do you foresee any unintended consequences for this Bill?Huw David: If we implement it carefully, if we implement it with theright resources, then I hope not. I think not. But as with every piece of legislation, it is about the implementation, it is about the cultural change as well, and that's why I cannot overstress the importance of making surethat resources are made available, because our social services departments—children's social services in particular—are overstretched. They are at breaking point—make no bones about it—and they are dealing withchildren who are facing serious harm and neglect. We are having record numbers of contacts from police, from teachers, from doctors and, of course, from children themselves who are experiencing that harm andneglect. And obviously, we want to focus our energy and our attention on those children. Equally, though, we don't want to lose sight of those families and children that are experiencing significant problems, but who wewant to support through our early intervention and prevention programmes, and that is why it is important that there is investment in those programmes, so that children do not end up in that terrible position where wehave to, for their safety, take them from their birth families to protect them. And the reality is, in Wales, that we are doing that to more children than we've done for a long time, and the numbers are growing acrossWales. And that is only because of the most appalling neglect and abuse, because there is no way that any judge would permit us to act to make a child safe if it was not for that fact, and the facts are there. So, I don'twant that focus to be lost, but, of course, we welcome and understand the need to progress this piece of legislation.Dawn Bowden AM: That rise that you talk about here, is that due to more interventions, greaterawareness, more incidents? I'm trying to link this to the Bill in terms of whether the Bill is actually going to give you more work to do in those areas.Sally Jenkins: On the reasons for the rise in the numbers oflooked-after children in Wales, which are higher than those in England, and also the numbers of contacts that we have across the local authorities, the work of the care crisis review, which was completed last year; thework of Isabelle Trowler, who's the chief social worker in England; countless research and reports that have taken place in the last 18 months; and currently the public law working group, under the auspices of thepresident of the family court, would all indicate that it's multifactorial. So, what you have is a range of reasons that have led to the increasing numbers of children becoming looked after across England and Wales. Whatyou can't do is identify a single reason. There have been headlines that have said, 'Is it increased austerity?' That is clearly a part of this. Is it in Wales an increased awareness of adverse childhood experiences and theemphasis of the impact on children of, for example, domestic abuse? Is it because of our understanding of what happens to children in those households? All of that research would say it's all of those things. And then,when you also add in changes in our practice with our colleagues in the judiciary, changes in our police service, but also changes in our preventative services, you've got that whole range of elements. And there is goingon across the local authorities and Welsh Government a huge amount of work to try to address and understand that, and then to ameliorate that. Children who need to be in care for safety need to be in care, but whatwe have to do is get to a point where fewer children come into care and we're able to protect them, firstly, and secondly where those children who are in care are cared for in a way that delivers the best possibleoutcomes for them. So, there is no simple answer unfortunately. I think, in terms of this Bill and unintended consequences, I agree absolutely with everything that Huw has said. My job is around children at that far"}
{"doc_id":"doc_156","qid":"","text":"PhD B: OK . We 're on .Grad E: Hello ?Professor A: OK , so uh {vocalsound} had some interesting mail from uh Dan Ellis . Actually , I think he {disfmarker} he {vocalsound} redirected it to everybody also so uh{vocalsound} the PDA mikes uh have a big bunch of energy at {disfmarker} at uh five hertz uh where this came up was that uh I was showing off these wave forms that we have on the web and {disfmarker} and uh{vocalsound} I just sort of hadn't noticed this , but that {disfmarker} the major , major component in the wave {disfmarker} in the second wave form in that pair of wave forms is actually the air conditioner .Grad C:Huh .Professor A: So . So . I {vocalsound} {vocalsound} I have to be more careful about using that as a {disfmarker} as a {disfmarker} {vocalsound} as a good illustration , uh , in fact it 's not , of uh {disfmarker}{vocalsound} of the effects of room reverberation . It is isn't a bad illustration of the effects of uh room noise . {vocalsound} on {disfmarker} on uh some mikes uh but So . And then we had this other discussion aboutum {vocalsound} whether this affects the dynamic range , cuz I know , although we start off with thirty two bits , you end up with uh sixteen bits and {vocalsound} you know , are we getting hurt there ? But uh Dan ispretty confident that we 're not , that {disfmarker} that quantization error is not {disfmarker} is still not a significant {vocalsound} factor there . So . So there was a question of whether we should change things here ,whether we should {vocalsound} change a capacitor on the input box for that or whether we shouldPhD B: Yeah , he suggested a smaller capacitor , right ?Professor A: Right . But then I had some other uh thingdiscussions with himPhD B: For the P DProfessor A: and the feeling was {vocalsound} once we start monk monkeying with that , uh , many other problems could ha happen . And additionally we {disfmarker} wealready have a lot of data that 's been collected with that , so .PhD B: Yeah .Professor A: A simple thing to do is he {disfmarker} he {disfmarker} he has a {disfmarker} I forget if it {disfmarker} this was in that mail orin the following mail , but he has a {disfmarker} a simple filter , a digital filter that he suggested . We just run over the data before we deal with it .PhD B: Mm - hmm .Professor A: um The other thing that I don't knowthe answer to , but when people are using Feacalc here , uh whether they 're using it with the high - pass filter option or not . And I don't know if anybody knows .Grad E: Um . {vocalsound} I could go check .ProfessorA: But . Yeah . So when we 're doing all these things using our software there is {disfmarker} um if it 's {disfmarker} if it 's based on the RASTA - PLP program , {vocalsound} which does both PLP and RASTA - PLP{vocalsound} um then {vocalsound} uh there is an option there which then comes up through to Feacalc which {vocalsound} um allows you to do high - pass filtering and in general we like to do that , because ofthings like this and {vocalsound} it 's {disfmarker} it 's pretty {disfmarker} it 's not a very severe filter . Doesn't affect speech frequencies , even pretty low speech frequencies , at all , but it 'sPhD B: What 's the{pause} cut - off frequency it used ?Professor A: Oh . I don't know I wrote this a while agoPhD B: Is it like twenty ?Professor A: Something like that .PhD B: Yeah .Professor A: Yeah . I mean I think there 's some effectabove twenty but it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's mild . So , I mean it probably {disfmarker} there 's probably some effect up to a hundred hertz or something but it 's {disfmarker} it 's prettymild . I don't know in the {disfmarker} in the STRUT implementation of the stuff is there a high - pass filter or a pre pre - emphasis or something in the {disfmarker}PhD F: Uh . I think we use a pre - emphasis . Yeah .Yeah .Professor A: So . We {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we want to go and check that in i for anything that we 're going to use the P D A mike for . {vocalsound} uh He says that there 's a pretty good roll off in thePZM mikes so {vocalsound} we don't need {disfmarker} need to worry about them one way or the other but if we do make use of the cheap mikes , {vocalsound} uh we want to be sure to do that {disfmarker} thatfiltering before we {vocalsound} process it . And then again if it 's uh depending on the option that the {disfmarker} our {disfmarker} our software is being run with , it 's {disfmarker} it 's quite possible that 's alreadybeing taken care of . uh But I also have to pick a different picture to show the effects of reverberation . uhPhD B: Did somebody notice it during your talk ?Professor A: uh No .PhD B: Huh .Professor A: Well . uh Well . Ifthey made output they were {disfmarker} they were , you know {disfmarker} they were nice .PhD B: Didn't say anything ?Professor A: But . {vocalsound} I mean the thing is it was since I was talking aboutreverberation and showing this thing that was noise , it wasn't a good match , but it certainly was still uh an indication of the fact that you get noise with distant mikes . uh It 's just not a great example because not onlyisn't it reverberation but it 's a noise that we definitely know what to do .PhD B: Mm - hmm .Professor A: So , I mean , it doesn't take deep {disfmarker} {vocalsound} a new {disfmarker} bold new methods to get ridof uh five hertz noise , so .PhD B: Yeah .Professor A: um {vocalsound} uh But . So it was {disfmarker} it was a bad example in that way , but it 's {disfmarker} it still is {disfmarker} it 's the real thing that we did getout of the microphone at distance , so it wasn't {vocalsound} it w it w wasn't wrong it was inappropriate . So . {vocalsound} So uh , but uh , Yeah , someone noticed it later pointed it out to me , and I went \" oh , man .Why didn't I notice that ? \"PhD B: Hmm .Professor A: um . So . {vocalsound} um So I think we 'll change our {disfmarker} our picture on the web , when we 're @ @ . One of the things I was {disfmarker} I mean , Iwas trying to think about what {disfmarker} what 's the best {vocalsound} way to show the difference an and I had a couple of thoughts one was , {vocalsound} that spectrogram that we show {vocalsound} is O K ,but the thing is {vocalsound} the eyes uh and the {vocalsound} the brain behind them are so good at picking out patterns {vocalsound} from {disfmarker} from noise {vocalsound} that in first glance you look at themit doesn't seem like it 's that bad uh because there 's many features that are still preserved . So one thing to do might be to just take a piece of the spec uh of the spectrogram where you can see {vocalsound} thatsomething looks different , an and blow it up , and have that be the part that 's {disfmarker} just to show as well . You know .PhD B: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .Professor A: i i Some things are going to be hurt . um{vocalsound} Another , I was thinking of was um {vocalsound} taking some spectral slices , like uh {disfmarker} like we look at with the recognizer , and look at the spectrum or cepstrum that you get out of there ,and the {disfmarker} the uh , um , {vocalsound} the reverberation uh does make it {disfmarker} does change that . And so maybe {disfmarker} maybe that would be more obvious .PhD B: Hmm .Grad C: Spectralslices ?Professor A: Yeah .Grad C: W w what d what do you mean ?Professor A: Well , I mean um all the recognizers look at frames . So they {disfmarker} they look at {disfmarker}PhD B: So like one instant in time.Professor A: Yeah , look at a {disfmarker}Grad C: OK .Professor A: So it 's , yeah , at one point in time or uh twenty {disfmarker} over twenty milliseconds or something , {vocalsound} you have a spectrum or acepstrum .Grad C: OK .Professor A: That 's what I meant by a slice .Grad C: I see .Professor A: Yeah . And {vocalsound} if you look at {disfmarker}PhD B: You could just {disfmarker} you could just throw up , youknow , uh {vocalsound} the uh {disfmarker} some MFCC feature vectors . You know , one from one , one from the other , and then , you know , you can look and see how different the numbers are .Professor A: Right .Well , that 's why I saying either {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Well , either spectrum or cepstrumPhD B: I 'm just kidding .Professor A: but {disfmarker} {vocalsound} but I think the thing is you wanna {disfmarker}PhD B: I don't mean a graph . I mean the actual numbers .Professor A: Oh . I see . Oh . That would be lovely , yeah .PhD B: Yeah . \" See how different these {vocalsound} sequences of numbers are ? \"Professor A:Yeah . Or I could just add them up and get a different total .PhD B: Yeah . It 's not the square .Professor A: OK . Uh . What else {disfmarker} wh what 's {disfmarker} what else is going on ?PhD F: Uh , yeah . Yeah , atfirst I had a remark why {disfmarker} I am wondering why the PDA is always so far . I mean we are always meeting at the {vocalsound} beginning of the table and {vocalsound} the PDA 's there .Professor A: Uh . Iguess cuz we haven't wanted to move it . We {disfmarker} we could {disfmarker} {vocalsound} we could move us ,PhD F: Yeah ?Professor A: and .PhD F: OK .Grad E: That 's right .PhD F: Well , anyway . Um . Yeah ,so . Uh . Since the last meeting we 've {disfmarker} we 've tried to put together um {vocalsound} the clean low - pass um downsampling , upsampling , I mean , Uh the new filter that 's replacing the LDA filters , andalso {vocalsound} the um delay issue so that {disfmarker} We considered th the {disfmarker} the delay issue on the {disfmarker} for the on - line normalization . Mmm . So we 've put together all this and then wehave results that are not um {vocalsound} {vocalsound} very impressive . Well , there is no {vocalsound} real improvement .Professor A: But it 's not wer worse and it 's better {disfmarker} better latency ,PhD F: It 'snot {disfmarker}Professor A: right ?PhD F: Yeah . Yeah . Well . Actually it 's better . It seems better when we look at the mismatched case but {vocalsound} I think we are like {disfmarker} like cheated here by the{disfmarker} th this problem that {vocalsound} uh in some cases when you modify slight {disfmarker} slightly modify the initial condition you end up {vocalsound} completely somewhere air somewhere else in the{disfmarker} in the space , {vocalsound} the parameters .Professor A: Yeah .PhD F: So . Well . The other system are for instance . For Italian is at seventy - eight {vocalsound} percent recognition rate on themismatch , and this new system has eighty - nine . But I don't think it indicates something , really . I don't {disfmarker} I don't think it means that the new system is more robustProfessor A: Uh - huh .PhD F: or{disfmarker} It 's simply the fact that {disfmarker} Well .Professor A: Well , the test would be if you then tried it on one of the other test sets , if {disfmarker} if it was {disfmarker}PhD F: YProfessor A: Right . So thiswas Italian , right ?PhD F: Yeah . Yeah .Professor A: So then if you take your changesPhD F: It 's similar for other test setsProfessor A: and then {disfmarker}PhD F: but I mean {vocalsound} from this se seventy -eight um percent recognition rate system , {vocalsound} I could change the transition probabilities for the {disfmarker} the first HMM and {pause} it will end up to eighty - nine also .Professor A: Uh - huh .PhD F: Byusing point five instead of point six , point four {vocalsound} as in the {disfmarker} the HTK script .Professor A: Uh - huh . Yeah .PhD F: So . Well . That 's {disfmarker}PhD B: Yeah . Yeah I looked at um {disfmarker}{vocalsound} looked at the results when Stephane did thatPhD F: Well . Eh uh {disfmarker}PhD B: and it 's {disfmarker} it 's really wo really happens .PhD F: This really happens .PhD B: I mean th the only differenceis you change the self - loop transition probability by a tenth of a percentPhD F: Yeah .Professor A: Yeah .PhD B: and it causes ten percent difference in the word error rate .Professor A: A tenth of a per cent .PhD B:Yeah . From point {disfmarker}PhD F: Even tenth of a percent ?PhD B: I {disfmarker} I 'm sorryPhD F: Well , we tried {disfmarker} we tried point one ,PhD B: f for point {disfmarker} from {disfmarker} You change atpoint onePhD F: yeah .Professor A: Oh !PhD B: and n not tenth of a percent , one tenth ,PhD F: Hmm .Professor A: Yeah .PhD B: alright ? Um so from point five {disfmarker} so from point six to point five and you getten percent better .Professor A: Mm - hmm .PhD B: And it 's {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I think it 's what you basically hypothesized in the last meeting {vocalsound} about uh it just being very {disfmarker}PhD F: Mm- hmm .PhD B: and I think you mentioned this in your email too {disfmarker} it 's just very um {disfmarker}PhD F: Mmm , yeah .PhD B: you know get stuck in some local minimum and this thing throws you out of it Iguess .PhD F: Mm - hmm .Professor A: Well , what 's {disfmarker} what are {disfmarker} according to the rules what {disfmarker} what are we supposed to do about the transition probabilities ? Are they supposed tobe point five or point six ?PhD B: I think you 're not allowed to {disfmarker} Yeah . That 's supposed to be point six , for the self - loop .PhD F: Yeah .Professor A: Point {disfmarker} It 's supposed to be point six .PhDB: Yeah . But changing it to point five I think is {disfmarker} which gives you much better results , but that 's {vocalsound} not allowed .Professor A: But not allowed ? Yeah . OK .PhD B: Yeah .PhD F: Yeah , but even ifyou use point five , I 'm not sure it will always give you the better resultsPhD B: Yeah .PhD F: on other test set or itPhD B: Right . We only tested it on the {disfmarker} the medium mismatch ,PhD F: on the othertraining set , I mean .PhD B: right ? You said on the other cases you didn't notice {disfmarker}PhD F: Yeah . But . I think , yeah . I think the reason is , yeah , I not I {disfmarker} it was in my mail I think also ,{vocalsound} is the fact that the mismatch is trained only on the far microphone . Well , in {disfmarker} for the mismatched case everything is um using the far microphone training and testing , whereas for the highlymismatched , training is done on the close microphone so {vocalsound} it 's {disfmarker} it 's clean speech basically so you don't have this problem of local minima probably and for the well - match , it 's a mix of closemicrophone and distant microphone and {disfmarker} Well .PhD B: I did notice uh something {disfmarker}PhD F: So th I think the mismatch is the more difficult for the training part .PhD B: Somebody , I think it wasMorgan , suggested at the last meeting that I actually count to see {vocalsound} how many parameters and how many frames .Professor A: Mm - hmm .PhD F: Mm - hmm .PhD B: And there are uh almost one pointeight million frames of training data and less than forty thousand parameters in the baseline system .Professor A: Hmm .PhD F: Yeah .PhD B: So it 's very , very few parameters compared to how much training data.Professor A: Well . Yes .PhD D: Mm - hmm .Professor A: So . And that {disfmarker} that says that we could have lots more parameters actually .PhD B: Yeah . Yeah .PhD F: Mm - hmm .PhD B: I did one quickexperiment just to make sure I had everything worked out and I just {disfmarker} {vocalsound} uh f for most of the um {disfmarker} For {disfmarker} for all of the digit models , they end up at three mixtures perstate . And so I just did a quick experiment , where I changed it so it went to four and um {vocalsound} it it {disfmarker} it didn't have a r any significant effect at the uh medium mismatch and high mismatch casesand it had {disfmarker} {vocalsound} it was just barely significant for the well - matched better . Uh so I 'm r gonna run that again but {vocalsound} um with many more uh mixtures per state .Professor A: Yeah . Cuzat forty thou I mean you could you could have uh {disfmarker} Yeah , easily four times as many {vocalsound} parameters .PhD B: Mm - hmm . And I think also {vocalsound} just seeing what we saw {vocalsound} uhin terms of the expected duration of the silence model ? when we did this tweaking of the self - loop ? The silence model expected duration was really different .PhD F: Yeah .PhD B: And so in the case where{vocalsound} um {vocalsound} it had a better score , the silence model expected duration was much longer .PhD F: Yeah .PhD B: So it was like {disfmarker} {vocalsound} it was a better match . I think {vocalsound}you know if we make a better silence model I think that will help a lot too um for a lot of these cases so but one one thing I {disfmarker} I wanted to check out before I increased the um {vocalsound} number ofmixtures per state was {vocalsound} uh {vocalsound} in their {vocalsound} default training script they do an initial set of three re - estimations and then they built the silence model and then they do seven iterationsthen the add mixtures and they do another seven then they add mixtures then they do a final set of seven and they quit . Seven seems like a lot to me and it also makes the experiments go take a really long time Imean to do one turn - around of the well matched case takes like a day .Professor A: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .PhD B: And so {vocalsound} you know in trying to run these experiments I notice , you know , it 's difficultto find machines , you know , compute the run on . And so one of the things I did was I compiled HTK for the Linux {vocalsound} machinesProfessor A: Mm - hmm .PhD B: cuz we have this one from IBM that 's got likefive processors in it ?Professor A: Right .PhD B: and so now I 'm {disfmarker} you can run stuff on that and that really helps a lot because now we 've got {vocalsound} you know , extra machines that we can use forcompute . And if {disfmarker} I 'm do running an experiment right now where I 'm changing the number of iterations ? {vocalsound} from seven to three ?PhD D: Mm - hmm .Professor A: Yeah .PhD B: just to see howit affects the baseline system . And so if we can get away with just doing three , we can do {vocalsound} many more experiments more quickly . And if it 's not a {disfmarker} a huge difference from running with seveniterations , {vocalsound} um , you know , we should be able to get a lot more experiments done .PhD F: Hmm .PhD B: And so . I 'll let you know what {disfmarker} what happens with that . But if we can {vocalsound}you know , run all of these back - ends f with many fewer iterations and {vocalsound} on Linux boxes we should be able to get a lot more experimenting done .Professor A: Mm - hmm .PhD B: So . So I wanted toexperiment with cutting down the number of iterations before I {vocalsound} increased the number of Gaussians .Professor A: Right . Sorry . So um , how 's it going on the {disfmarker}PhD F: Um .Professor A: So .You {disfmarker} you did some things . They didn't improve things in a way that convinced you you 'd substantially improved anything .PhD F: Yeah .Professor A: But they 're not making things worse and we havereduced latency , right ?PhD F: Yeah . But actually {disfmarker} um actually it seems to do a little bit worse for the well - matched case and we just noticed that {disfmarker} Yeah , actually the way the final score iscomputed is quite funny . It 's not a mean of word error rate . It 's not a weighted mean of word error rate , it 's a weighted mean of improvements .Professor A: Uh - huh .PhD F: So . Which means that {vocalsound}actually the weight on the well - matched is {disfmarker} Well I well what what {disfmarker} What happened is that if you have a small improvement or a small if on the well - matched case {vocalsound} it will have uhhuge influence on the improvement compared to the reference because the reference system is {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} is quite good for {disfmarker} for the well - ma well - matched case also .PhD B: So it{disfmarker} it weights the improvement on the well - matched case really heavily compared to the improvement on the other cases ?PhD F: No , but it 's the weighting of the {disfmarker} of the improvement not ofthe error rate .PhD B: Yeah . Yeah , and it 's hard to improve on the {disfmarker} on the best case , cuz it 's already so good , right ?PhD F: Yeah but {pause} what I mean is that you can have a huge improvement onthe H {disfmarker} HMK 's , uh like five percent uh absolute , and this will not affect the final score almost {disfmarker} Uh this will almost not affect the final score because {vocalsound} this improvement{disfmarker} because the improvement {vocalsound} uh relative to the {disfmarker} the baseline is small {disfmarker}Professor A: So they do improvement in terms of uh accuracy ? rather than word error rate ?PhDF: Uh . Uh improvement ?Professor A: So {disfmarker}PhD F: No , it 's compared to the word er it 's improvement on the word error rate ,Professor A: OK .PhD F: yeah . Sorry .Professor A: So if you have uh tenpercent error and you get five percent absolute uh {vocalsound} improvement then that 's fifty percent .PhD F: Mm - hmm .Professor A: OK . So what you 're saying then is that if it 's something that has a small word"}
{"doc_id":"doc_157","qid":"","text":"Industrial Designer: 'S to do now is to decide how to fulfil what your stuff is ,Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: so in that sense {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Yeah , sure .Industrial Designer: so itdoes kind of make sense , yeah .Project Manager: Okay , well {disfmarker}Marketing: It kinda does make sense , doesn't it , because when we get into the end of meeting we're kind of {vocalsound} talking aboutaction and design as opposed to background .Industrial Designer: Yep .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Everything I have is kinda background .Project Manager: Okay we all ready to go ?Industrial Designer: Yep.Project Manager: Well how um on the {disfmarker} in this meeting then if we um {disfmarker} I'll just just recap on the minutes from the last meeting . And we uh decided onIndustrial Designer: Yep .Project Manager:decided on our our target group being fifteen to thirty five ,Marketing: {vocalsound} Mm-hmm .Project Manager: and we decided that it was gonna be non-rechargeable battery-powered , that we're gonna group ouraudio-visual and other functions into into those categories , um {vocalsound} . And I told you guys about the three new requirements about ignoring teletext , ignoring everything except the T_V_ , and trying toincorporate the the uh corporate colour and slogan . Um so that was the last meeting .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Is there anything {disfmarker} have I forgotten anything ?Industrial Designer: No.Project Manager: Is that everything ?Marketing: Uh that sounds {gap} .Project Manager: Okay . Um so if we have the three presentations , and then if you have anything to kind of {disfmarker} that you know you'regonna want to discuss , maybe just make a note of it , and we'll have all the discussion at the end . That might be a better idea this time .Marketing: Sure .Project Manager: And so if we start off uh with Andrew andthen Craig and then David ,Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: if that's alright .Marketing: Sure .Industrial Designer: Yep .Project Manager: Um and then after that we'll have to make some decisions about stuff , right{vocalsound} .Marketing: Yeah , cool .Project Manager: So if you wanna take this .Marketing: Why don't I get that {vocalsound} ? Hmm .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Screwed in quite tightly . Uh what did{disfmarker} uh how did we leave it with speech recognition now ? We {disfmarker} did we say we were gonna try {disfmarker} maybe incorporate it but we hadn't made a definite decision on that ?IndustrialDesigner: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Right . Oh I should also point out that um the you know the kind of final objective of this meeting is to reach a decision on the concepts of the product .Marketing: Okay .{vocalsound}Project Manager: So um {vocalsound} that's kind of the end result hopefully .Marketing: Okay . Um alright so c is it function F_ eight ?Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh-huh . Hopefully appear in a weesecond .Marketing: Hmm . Come on . I think it's working .Project Manager: Up there we go .Marketing: Okay great s so let me just start this . {vocalsound} Okay great . So um {vocalsound} uh s move on . Uh-huh{disfmarker} oh where'd it all go ?Project Manager: {vocalsound} Oh no .Marketing: It's not good . Okay lemme just see where I can find it . This looks more like it . I think I just opened up the template .ProjectManager: Oh right .Marketing: Sorry about that . Okay alright so let's have a look here .Project Manager: Here we go .Marketing: Okay so this was the method that um I've taken . Uh basically what I wanna do here ,before we get into it uh too far , is I want to show you all the background information I have that I think we need to acknowledge if we want this to be successful .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: And uh and thensorta g go through some of the way that I've dealt with that information , and then sort of bring us all together into it to see {disfmarker} sorta see how this fits in with the overall vision . Um so I've tried to take awhole lot of market research and summarise it for us , and then ide identify uh trends that are are sort of in sync and are important to our our uh p project plan that we have so far , and then uh initiate a kind ofdiscussion on design options so that it sorta helps us to to narrow in on on aspects that will inform other uh other elements of the of the project . Does that make sense , tha that sort of strategy ?Industrial Designer:Yep .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: I thought that that will impact on the rest of what we do , so that's why I suggested we get in this .Project Manager: Aye a fair point definitely .Marketing: Okay so out of umdifferent uh figures and ratings ob uh of people in general , um consumers in general , the number one thing that was found was that uh the br t television remote control , a fancy look and feel , okay , and not , itspecified , not a functional look or or feel , uh b f f fancy .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Um however , this is where we kinda have to be very , I think , creative about it . Number two was that it be innovative .Okay so that tells me that we have to find a way to be innovative without a adding just unnecessary um sort of functional bits to it . Uh and third priority uh for ease of use , so again that kind of gives us a generalpicture of how it has to be , um {vocalsound} quite user friendly while still having technology . So it {disfmarker} I'll just say right away as a bit of a foreshadowing into how we proceed with this in terms of mmarketing , is that I think um {vocalsound} what we should think about is how the um {vocalsound} about how the innovation uh contributes to the look and feel , and not so much to the functionality of it .ProjectManager: {vocalsound} Aye right .Marketing: For example like when you pick it up and push it like it all lights up or something , you know what I mean , like , or it's got something else to it that just seemsinnovativeProject Manager: Uh-huh .Marketing: because obviously the thing that {disfmarker} the message here is ease of use . So how do you make innovation make something more {vocalsound} more easy to use ?Well that's I guess where we're gonna go with this .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Okay then there's the other aspect of the back the the market um research I have here is on fashion style , okay , which as we'veagreed is a priority . Uh top European fashion trend um {vocalsound} that I read about says there's this emerging theme of fruit and vegetables , okay ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager:{vocalsound}Marketing: especially in clothes and furniture . And when I first saw that I thought hmm , well do we want to actually try and think about this trend and how we add something to it , or we get right into it ,or we completely steer away from it ,Project Manager: Okay okay .Marketing: do you know what I mean ? So my my feeling is that we w do want to observe this trend , but we want to think also about the fact that itsort of has to fit in with something which is not specifically electronics . Um 'cause I think what we're in what we're in is partly sort of home decor , partly something like a computer , um {vocalsound} so I think wemight wanna be careful about how you know how quickly we create like a remote control in the shape of an apple or something ,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: I think that would be pushing it .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}Marketing: And then in terms of m material trends are for things to be soft and spongy and sort of , you might say ergonomic or or friendly to handle , which is {disfmarker} which also inindicated that last year this was this was not the case . So um probably a lot of the competition on the market will be still in last year's mode , so if we try and really capitalise on that , I think that'll be in our favour . Um{disfmarker} So these this is the summary of everything . Um style is number one uh thing in the in the market of who we're selling to . Uh innovative design technology's also a must in that it's seen {disfmarker} it'dbe seen to be uh cutting edge , uh but ease of use t has to be insured throughout . That was like the number three thing . And then at the end there are vibrant natural colours um that's the way I interpreted it anyway ,softness in materials , shape , and function , and so I've written at written at the bottom to give us sort of a context of discussion , Mac iPods ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: something which is , I'd have to sayvery high-tech , ten gigabytes , whatever , but when you hold it in your hand there's like no buttons .Project Manager: Mm that's true , yeah .Marketing: You know what a Mac iPod is ? I'm thinking however Mac iPod issort of last year's because it's very hard and sort of glassy and glossy , so I'm thinking if we imagine that we're taking some of the features of a Mac iPod and we're then making it s more of like a more of like acomfortable type of {disfmarker} or more of like a {disfmarker} {vocalsound} maybe more vibrant to friendly thing to have . Um and then so this is w with all that information what I'm what I'm suggesting in this slidehere is that we we take these ideas , and as we get into more the more um {vocalsound} techni like sort of production side of things , that we think about shape , materials , and themes or series that go throughout .Sort of like a {disfmarker} I dunno like um we think of some kind of a thin theme that unifies it all , that we agree on , uh sorta like a marketing identity . Um {disfmarker} Does that make sense ? Yeah . So{vocalsound} so like I threw out a few ideas there just to kinda get us thinking along those lines like lemon , lime , I dunno , green colours , pe whatever , it's just an idea , 'cause I'm thinking that some of these ideaswill seem quite coherent if we use them in terms of their {disfmarker} what people associate this {disfmarker} them with in terms of texture , shape , colours , things like that .Project Manager: Mm 'kay . Great.Marketing: Like um the ones the ones which I'm most fond of in terms of giving like a theme to it would be like um like lemon or something like that , you know something which is , like you see a lot in in other areas .Like I see lots of websites and things that seem to associate with like lemon and lime and {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: So anyway it's just just an idea .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: I'mthinking maybe we could incorporate some of these features into a fairly um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} into something which is {disfmarker} which seems to have something to it which is almost gimmicky because likeum like something to do with like lighting within it . Like you know just within the simple sense , when you pick up a phone and touch a button it uh lights up , q usually the buttons light up .Project Manager: Ah.Marketing: How can we build on that ? Maybe like it could light up in different colours or something or or people could buy the buy the control and then it comes with different like covers or something so .ProjectManager: Okay .Marketing: Anyway those are {disfmarker} that's all I have ,Project Manager: That's great .Marketing: but uh hopefully we can we can revisit those ideas when we get into {disfmarker}Project Manager:Uh-huh . Okay great .Marketing: {gap}Project Manager: Um thank you for that . Uh Craig do you wannaMarketing: Yep .Project Manager: uh plug yours in then ?User Interface: Is it working ?Project Manager:{vocalsound} Mm . Not quite .Marketing: Did you press F_ eight ?Industrial Designer: It's probably not sending . Yeah .Project Manager: Oh something coming now , yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:Yep , there it is .Project Manager: There we go .User Interface: And so think of this concept . Um to research it I've um had a look on the the homepage again . It's provided me with more examples of um previouslyexisting c remote controls . Um there's a wee bit of discussion about the other existing ones there , um so I've taken the um suggestions from them and tried to incorporate them into this um {disfmarker} So then this{disfmarker} we're looking for um suggestions on size th um size of control and the buttons , um the shape of the control , and whereabout the buttons should be located on the control .Project Manager: Mm .UserInterface: Um what I found from the research is that most the current controls are just basically big bricks with loads of buttons all over them . Um they're not very attractive to look at , {vocalsound} and they're notvery comfortable to hold , they're {disfmarker} I just hold 'em like big bricks , and they're very easily lost . Um they tend to be very dark colours , so if there are shadowy places down the side of couches you can'treally see them . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Um {vocalsound} the the controls themselves tend to use a very inconsistent colour scheme . Um for instance , the stand-by button isn'talways red , uh it really should be . It's uh something the user then uh identify with . This is a red switch off , that's how it should be . Um I'm not sure if there's any other examples of that , but something to look out for. Um there's a problem that I've I've got couple of preferences for the the end control {vocalsound} um I get 'em with the the red colour button for stand-by and s the other examples of that {vocalsound} um{disfmarker} {vocalsound} The buttons should be large . They shouldn't be tiny little things like you get on some mobile phones . They should be easy to press , very comfortable . {vocalsound} Um one of theexamples given on the homepage was um {vocalsound} there's an up and down volume button but both of them have a V_ on them ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: so the up volume button looks like itshould be a down volume button , that's kinda confusing . Um should avoid s things like that . Um {vocalsound} if the the corporate colour scheme allows it we should have a very bright colour so that it can be easilyidentified anywhere .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Um obviously trying trying to avoid being tacky there , but it could um tie-in very easily with your your lime and lemon idea .Marketing: Yeah . Okay , do wehave a corporate colour scheme ?Project Manager: {vocalsound} I think it's yellowMarketing: I didn't know .Project Manager: because like the website is yellow and there's a band at the bottom is yellow ,Marketing:{vocalsound} Okay .Industrial Designer: And the Play-Doh 's yellow {vocalsound} .Project Manager: so yellow , lemon , you know definitely food for thought there ,Marketing: Okay .User Interface: Fantastic .{vocalsound}Project Manager: but keep goingMarketing: Okay .Project Manager: and we'll discuss it after .User Interface: UmMarketing: Yeah .User Interface: any extra features we add beyond the basic ones shouldbe m hidden , they shouldn't be on the {vocalsound} {disfmarker} um shouldn't be visible without something be opened or some sort of special extra effort .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: {vocalsound}Um if we did decide to go for voice activation {vocalsound} there sh should always be a button as alternative , possibly hidden in the the opened up section um making that something is wrong with it or withsomebody's voice , maybe they got a cold or {disfmarker} Um {vocalsound} we should definitely avoid the big square block look . That's just wrong .Project Manager: Mm 'kay .Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface:And um we got an email uh from I think it's the the research department , {vocalsound} and they've said th the voice control um can now talk back if you ask it a question .Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: So it shit could be good to have them um confirm any action you takeProject Manager: Aye that's a good idea , yeah .User Interface: and {gap} possibility . Right and these are problems I've had with it . Um I don't knowwhere the slogan should go , or really what the slogan is . I think it's um , fashion into electronics .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: And we don't know how flexible the colour scheme is . I mean you say youwanted the the corporate colours , but they don't say you know if we can use any other colours at all or {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: Cool .User Interface:That's it .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Great . {vocalsound} Lots of good information there .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Yeah that that was very good ,Industrial Designer: Mm 'kay um.Project Manager: and uh now with David .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: I think I'm cool .Marketing: It's a shame the cable wasn't just in the middle {gap} {vocalsound} of the table ,Project Manager: I knowit'd be handy , wouldn't it .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: huh ? Just um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Oops .Project Manager: Do y do you wanna sit in the the line of sight of this um{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah okay . Let me just get this going first .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Ah there it is . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} It takes a second , doesn't it ?Industrial Designer: 'Kay , that should be it . Okay um I guess the same thing again , I started with something very basic .Marketing:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So just so you guys have some idea of what's involved in my process , um and then you can just work through itMarketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: and we 'll either modify it orstart from scratch um depending on what your needs are . Um the components are exactly the same .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Um I think , like what you guys said , um the most input that'sneeded is basically in the user interface . The rest of the components um they do have an impact in terms of cost and complexity . Um like you said time to market was a problem , um and how many components arephysically in there in cost . And the power is basically a factor of that . Um and the lower components , the power , the logic , the transmitter , and the infrared , um they affect you in terms of the size of your device ,um and that would have some inte impact on how y I think more how you hold rather than um the actual use using the the remote control because um like we've said {disfmarker} we've defined , like we only want thebasic things that {disfmarker} to be visible , and the rest of them we try to hide . So um you know it's just a matter of working out space .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: So I guess three things , um cost ,um complexity , and the size . These are the three things that um will have an impact on you . So just go through it in the components . Um these are the options that are available to you , um I'm not very sure aboutthe voice thing 'cause I got another email and it was in fact quite sketchy on what n the voice options are .User Interface: Right .Industrial Designer: Um it said it could talk to you , but it never said anything aboutbeing able to listen . I it said something about a sensor but never clarified that .Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: So maybe if you {disfmarker}Project Manager: Hmm .Industrial Designer: well I could see the otheremail that they sent you , um 'cause they got back to me with like different requirements {vocalsound} , or different offerings of what components availa Okay so your basic components are buttons ,User Interface:Right .Industrial Designer: okay and you have a wheel available , like a mouse scroll wheel ,Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: okay there's an L_C_D_ display ,Marketing:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} um I think these are quite standard things .Marketing: They're standard , aren't they ?Industrial Designer: No um they're {disfmarker} well in the sense that these are allthe options available for you . I'll explain to you the complexity and the cost thing again a bit later .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Okay um then there's um how the case actually looks . It can actually be flat orit can be curved , um and then the different types of materials that you can use , um I don't think you can use them in a combination , um but umProject Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: I could check back foryou , but I don't think you can actually use them in a combination .Project Manager: We {disfmarker} you couldn't have like plastic and rubber ?Industrial Designer: Um I think plastic and rubber would be fine , butplastic , rubber , and wood , I wasn't {disfmarker} I'm not very sure about the titanium .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: They had some restrictions on using the rubber and the titanium .Marketing: Hmm.Industrial Designer: Um the rubber was a restriction on the kind of power source you could use ,Project Manager: Mm 'kay .Industrial Designer: but the titanium had a different kind of things on the shape of the thing"}
{"doc_id":"doc_158","qid":"","text":"Lynne Neagle AM: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee. We've received apologies for absence from Julie Morgan, and I'm very pleased to welcome David Rees,who is substituting for her today. Can I ask Members whether there are any declarations of interest, please? No. Okay. Thank you very much. Item 2 this morning, then, is a session with the Minister for Children andSocial Care on the Welsh Government's childcare offer. So, I'm very pleased to welcome Huw Irranca-Davies, Minister for Children and Social Care, also Jo-Anne Daniels, director for communities and tackling poverty,and Owain Lloyd, deputy director for childcare, play and early years. So, thank you, all, for your attendance. If you're happy, we'll go straight into questions from Members, and the first questions come from HefinDavid.Hefin David AM: Good morning, Minister. How has it gone in the early implementer local authority areas, and is it something of a mixed bag?Huw Irranca-Davies AM: It's gone well, but I'm glad we've done itthrough this process of early implementer, actually piloting it, because we're learning lessons as we go along. It has gone well. It's been encouraging, to the extent that we're at the point where we're expanding—we'vemade announcements on expanding some of the early implementer areas so we can learn more lessons. But, in terms of what we're learning, one is the bureaucracy around the current approach that we're taking,because it's being done on the seven early implementers. So, we're asking parents to come in, provide their wage slips, provide the birth certificates, and so on. You're dealing sometimes with parents and families withcomplex issues and complex backgrounds, so it's difficult. And the burden of administration on that is falling to each pilot area. In one case, it's a whole authority, but it's only one—that's in Blaenau Gwent. In others,it's smaller areas. So, we're also hitting those—. The other big challenge we're hitting is communication. So, we're having parents, generally, who are outside the areas entirely saying, 'Why haven't we got this yet? Canwe please get into it?', which is encouraging. But the other thing we're having is people who are within pilot authorities, where it doesn't extend to the whole authority, saying, 'Well, hold on now, we think we qualify forsomething under universal care, we think we qualify for something on tax credits. Why don't we qualify for this?' 'Well, you're not in the pilot area.' So, we're learning about these things, but the biggest one, I have tosay, is the administrative burden, and I think that's interesting in how we take this forward for a wider roll-out.Hefin David AM: What is the administrative burden? What specifically is that?Huw Irranca-Davies AM: It isthat sheer burden on each local authority, and each pilot area, to administer a scheme where we are asking parents to prove eligibility, to bring in documents to prove their eligibility, to make adjustments as it goesforward based on what their changing work patterns are, what their salary slips say. It's incredibly bureaucratic. So, yesterday, when we made the statement following the announcement of the introduction of theChildcare Funding (Wales) Bill, we made clear that our preferred option, as put within that framework Bill, is actually to build on, and to learn from the lessons as well, the model of the HM Revenue and Customs type ofmodel, where you actually have—and this, by the way, is supported by local authority providers out there—one system that is a centralised system, where there is clarity, that is handled, that has elements ofinformation sharing between Government departments, such as the Department for Work and Pensions, and so on, so that the work is done for the parents, and the work is done for the local authorities; much cleaner,much simpler.Hefin David AM: How confident are you that you can achieve that by 2020?Huw Irranca-Davies AM: We are very confident. But, as I say, I'm more confident in the fact that we're actually piloting it, andphasing this in, because I think we've learned from some of the experiences elsewhere, including just over the border in England, where they have a different version of a childcare offer, but they've gone for it in abig-bang approach. And it has led to technical issues, it's led to volume issues, where their anticipation of how many people would buy into it was overwhelmed by the numbers who actually then came forward for it,and the complexity, I have to say, of individual family situations, whereas what we are doing, Hefin, is taking this forward very, very carefully. Each roll-out, each expansion that we're doing of the pilot is not—and Iknow this has caused some people to come back and say, 'Why can't we all have it now?' It's because we're only rolling out to areas where we now need to learn a lesson about whether it's rurality or, as it will bewithin densely urban areas, where the cost might be slightly higher, and that's allowing us to have the confidence that we'll have it. We've expanded the whole offer across Gwynedd—the whole of Gwynedd, Angleseyand Caerphilly. Flintshire now have a cross-authority offer. Rhondda Cynon Taf is anticipating doing this by September. Swansea is planning to do it, they tell us, in due course—in short order—as well. So, we have theconfidence now that, with that learning going on from different pilot areas, we'll have the full roll-out by 2020.Hefin David AM: Is it true to say that, in the early adopter areas, the intensity of demand for the services isnot spread evenly across?Huw Irranca-Davies AM: Absolutely.Hefin David AM: And why is that? Is that going to cause a problem across Wales?Huw Irranca-Davies AM: No, it won't cause a problem. If we were doingthis tomorrow, it would cause a problem, but what we're learning is that there are some economic issues and then there are some cultural issues. So ,there are issues to do with—. It's not capacity, by the way. We'renot finding a problem here with capacity, whether it's in English language provision or whether it's in Welsh language provision, whether it's in children with complex needs, we're not finding that as an issue. But whatwe are finding is, for example, one of the well-known ones—and I've spoken about this before—is that, in some of the south Wales Valleys constituencies, there is a family tradition of doing childcare within the families.I've done it myself. Grandparents, aunts, uncles and so on provide free, unregistered, unlicensed childcare of a sort. Now that isn't what the scheme is about, by the way, I have to say. So, some of the aspects arecultural, but what we're also doing alongside this, whilst looking at the capacity and looking at how we learnt from the pilot roll-out, is that communication with parents and providers and local authorities as well. So, wehave a whole programme running alongside it. It's about communicating what the offer is, how simple it is to get invovled in this and where they go to, and, critically, I think, how we do that national roll-out would beimportant as well.Hefin David AM: So, given the point you've made about grandparents and family, wouldn't it be sensible, then, to offer a subsidy to grandparents to provide this kind of care?Huw Irranca-Davies AM:Unregistered grandparents?Hefin David AM: Well, through some kind of analysis of that.Huw Irranca-Davies AM: Well, we don't think so and there are good reasons behind this.Hefin David AM: Is it because you say thatthey wouldn't be registered as carers for their own family member?Huw Irranca-Davies AM: Yes, but there's a deeper reason behind that registration as well. The childcare offer isn't only to just provide childcare; it'sthe wider aspects that come with this. This childcare offer ties into the foundation years offer. There's an element of education linked to the childcare offer—there's that 10 hours of the early education foundation yearsas well. The two tie together. So, there's an issue here with quality, about socialisation and how children learn in an environment, as opposed to purely—as great as all our grandparents and aunts and unclesare—simply child-minding. That's one important distinction. So, the focus of this scheme is very much on registered licensed providers, which could be, by the way—because we do have them, and we're discussing thisat the moment internally and with the Professional Association for Childcare and Early Years and others—grandparents who are actually registered and inspected by the care inspectorate? We're having thosediscussions.Hefin David AM: How many of them are there?Huw Irranca-Davies AM: We don't think there is a huge number, but we're trying to bottom this out at the moment. We haven't got the exact number, but wedon't think they are huge numbers, but there are, in our constituencies, registered, licensed, inspected grandparents who look after other people's children in a little group of four or five or six or seven, but also theirown grandchildren.Hefin David AM: So, they're a kind of grandparents club.Huw Irranca-Davies AM: Yes. Now that, I would say to you—and I know that Darren raised this on the floor yesterday as well—is markedlydifferent in the nature of it, because it's registered and licensed, than simply informal grandparents or aunts or uncles. I say that as well because we also get people who will say to us, 'I don't want to be paid for lookingafter my grandchildren; I look after my grandchildren because I look after them'.Hefin David AM: And what about the view, given that you said that capacity wasn't an issue, of the National Day Nurseries Association,which says that Wales has the most fragile childcare sector in Great Britain?Huw Irranca-Davies AM: I don't agree we have the most fragile, but the childcare offer gives us an opportunity to make it more resilient andmore robust. We know from the early piloting, and as we roll it out, that there is the immense diversity within the childcare sector, and we're talking about everything from those very small terraced homes that havebeen licensed and registered to take six or seven children, to large, complex environments that perhaps are on maintained premises within school premises, provided by a voluntary or third sector organisation. So,there's immense complexity and we know that that differs across Wales, and we also know there's immense regional variation in the scale and the type of childcare offer. What the roll-out allows us to do, backed by £60million of capital money behind it, in terms of capital development of childcare facilities, backed by a 10-year workforce development plan for childcare—and bear in mind this is bolted in as part of our foundationaleconomy approach as well—that means, by 2020, we get to the point where we're putting the money into the capital development but also to the workforce development, because in some areas we're finding it's not todo with lack of provision and facilities, it's to do with lack of staff. In other areas, we're finding there are plenty of staff but not the adequate facilities. We've got to get it right.Hefin David AM: That's fair enough, but is itrealistic to think that there's going to be capacity growth in the next two to three years to deliver the product? Is that realistic to think that that foundational sector can provide that level of staffing?Huw Irranca-DaviesAM: Yes, I think it is, absolutely, because, again, what we're finding is we've got several things going on at once in terms of how we monitor and assess the development of this roll-out. One is the work that we're doingon the ground with the phased roll-out, so we're literally learning live time, and I have pretty much weekly or fortnightly updates on how things are going, but also there is a termly update as well. We've alsocommissioned additional work from Arad to look at this first phase of the roll-out that we've done to see what that tells us as well. But the feedback that we're getting from the childcare providers themselves, on thebasis that we're now identifying where either the gaps in the workforce or the physical facilities are, is that, 'Yes, we can do this', because we're putting the money in, we have the strategy for the workforcedevelopment, and it's not going to be the same in all parts of Wales. It's not as if what we're saying is, 'Here's what we're going to do all of a sudden—flick a switch and we have a universality of the same type ofprovision everywhere.' So, let me give you one key example. Alongside this, alongside the £60 million capital fund, alongside the workforce development, we've also identified a separate strain of money into cylchmeithrin. We know that there is a shortage in parts of Wales for Welsh language childcare development. We're specifically putting money into developing that, and, in fact, the first one of those will be, from that newtranche of money, opening up, I think, in September. They anticipate, as part of our big strategy with Welsh language development, we'll have an additional 40 of those by—Jo-Anne Daniels: Thirty.Huw Irranca-DaviesAM: It's an additional 30 by 2020, and an additional doubling of that in the 10 years after that. We can't take this for granted, Hefin. This is difficult. This is hard work, but we have everything in place to make ithappen.Hefin David AM: The last thing from me: the £4.50 single national rate—is there a danger that we might be creating a kind of EasyJet-style nursery provision where you get the basics but the wealthier parentsare going to be able to pay for better care within those settings because of the add-ons?Huw Irranca-Davies AM: We really mulled over this a lot and discussed it, I have to say, not only internally but with childcareproviders out there and with parents as well and with local authorities. The first thing to say is the £4.50 rate that we've set has been welcomed, and it's been welcomed because it's unlike the much more complex offerthat's in England, where there's a variable rate and there are lots of determining factors on it and it's added complexity and confusion.Hefin David AM: Can I just ask there, it's been welcomed perhaps in Blaenau Gwent,but has it been equally welcomed in Cardiff?Huw Irranca-Davies AM: No, because we haven't rolled it out in Cardiff yet, and that is a salient point.Hefin David AM: Okay, fair enough. But will it be, then?HuwIrranca-Davies AM: Yes, it will be. Some of the more expensive areas like Cardiff and Newport are knocking on our door saying, 'Please can we have this offer?', and we are keen to give it to them. But, as I say—HefinDavid AM: But do you anticipate a capacity problem with the £4.50 in those areas, compared to, say, the Cynon valley?Huw Irranca-Davies AM: We can't anticipate it yet, Hefin, but that's exactly the reason for goinginto that area and then assessing how it works. We're reasonably confident that the £4.50—. We're reasonably assured by the feedback that we're having that the £4.50 might work as a universal amount. But if welearn, when we roll it out in Cardiff and Newport, that there needs to be some variation, we can look at that, because we're not doing a big-bang approach. So, that is part of why we will move to roll it out within Cardiffand Newport and other more expensive areas and learn from it, but at the moment, I have to say, the £4.50 amount has been welcomed—it's appropriate. You touched on the other aspect, though, of the wider aspectsof beyond the £4.50, because the £4.50 doesn't cover everything. The £4.50 is a contribution towards the wraparound childcare element but it doesn't cover—and we agonised over this—the issues of things liketransport out on trips or food or snacks and things like this. Now, we did agonise a number of things that brought us to the conclusion where we are. I have to say, this hasn't been ivory-tower stuff; it's been indiscussion with the providers but also parents. One: parents are quite used to—with childcare settings and play care settings and so on—the idea that providers are quite different. Some providers charge a fee that doeseverything in one; others provide simply the childcare element but they tell the parents—and I'm used to this as a parent myself, although mine are older now—'Mr Irranca-Davies, when you sign on, just to be aware, ifwe do take your kids down to St Fagans, there's going to be a little bit of a charge for that' and so on.Hefin David AM: That's fair enough, but it would be the lowest-income working families who would be most undulyaffected by that, because the higher income families would be able to afford those add-ons, the lower income ones won't. Isn't that a concern?Huw Irranca-Davies AM: If money was absolutely no object, then I thinkyou'd be looking at quite a different offer, but it has to be affordable within what we've got as well. The fact that parents, including those who are on lower incomes, are used to currently discriminating betweenproviders, not only with childcare settings but also within school settings as well, where very often schools now will say, 'We're doing something extra'—Hefin David AM: That may be the case, but it's not fair, is it?HuwIrranca-Davies AM: In a pure argument about equity, and if funding was no object and if the burdens of austerity were released and we were told we had money—'You can do what you want'—I think you'd be looking ata very different approach. But within what we have, I think this works very, very well indeed, because it's very transparent for parents who are used to making these decisions. It says, 'Here you have 10 hours of thefoundation education offer. You have the additional hours here provided with the childcare offer. But within those additional hours, you may be with a local provider in the middle of Powys that actually says, \"Within thatwe provide everything\"; you may be with a provider that says, \"Well, actually, we do a whistles and bells thing and we take them out on trips, but it's up to you if you want to come, and here's the additional cost—\".'Parents are used to making that decision and realistically, in terms of what we can do with this offer, this is actually—the arguments around this have been well rehearsed both with providers and with parents and we'renot getting any concerns that this is going to unnecessarily disadvantage. In a total fairness argument, would you make it universal and with no additional charges? Well, possibly you would. But we work within therealistic—Hefin David AM: Or have a lower top-end income limit.Huw Irranca-Davies AM: Depending on how the Bill progresses in the main Chamber and when it goes through committee, there's that flexibility built intothe Bill that those things can be looked at over time and adjusted. For the moment, I think there is an attraction, in terms of the upper limit, of saying: one—'Let's try not to add additional complexity, let's go with ascheme that's already working its way through the system, which is, if you like, what they're doing in England, and not add additional complexity. But, secondly, there is an appeal to universality, curiously, in saying toall parents—and I say this regardless of political hues across the committee here—there's an attraction when you say, 'Let's make an offer focused on working parents as it is', as universal to those working parents aspossible, and avoid the administrative costs of saying, 'Well, let's take the upper limit down to £80 or £60 or £55.' There's always the question of how much additional cost is incurred in actually doing that tweak ofcomplexity. We have looked at it.Lynne Neagle AM: Darren on this.Darren Millar AM: Just to ask, I mean, the labour market costs are changing, aren't they? You've got the national living wageincreasing—[Inaudible.]—that's going to have a bearing, isn't it, on the affordability of this project in terms of the childcare offer and the suitability of the £4.50 per hour regime? By the time it's fully rolled out, ofcourse, that £4.50 rate is going to be a number of years old, for example. Do you have plans to review that? Where is it headed? Because it's certainly not going to be enough in the future.Huw Irranca-Davies AM: Itdepends how far in the future you're looking. I have to say, the feedback that we're having at the moment from organisations like the Professional Association for Childcare and Early Years and from the National DayNurseries Association Wales and others is that this is the right rate and it's suitable not only today but for the foreseeable future of rolling this out.Darren Millar AM: But they've raised concerns about the nationalliving wage implications, haven't they, as well?Huw Irranca-Davies AM: Of course, and I think it's incumbent on us as well to not—Darren Millar AM: So, it's not fair to say that they haven't raised concerns about therate.Huw Irranca-Davies AM: Yes, but what they're not arguing for at the moment is for this rate to be raised.Darren Millar AM: But they have suggested that in meetings—Huw Irranca-Davies AM: That infuture—Darren Millar AM: Absolutely.Huw Irranca-Davies AM: Well, of course, in future, any Minister, any committee, will want to come back and look at—is the hourly rate, as one element of the scheme, appropriate to"}
{"doc_id":"doc_159","qid":"","text":"User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: Or you get it . Okay .User Interface: No I don't think so it has to be like that yeah and you have to adjust the length . Okay , and then .Project Manager: {vocalsound} So weuh {disfmarker} we will wait for Anna , a few minutes .User Interface: Yeah , s yeah , um .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Mm {vocalsound} . Yours is well {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: I think you canput anywhere you want , actually . I thinIndustrial Designer: Yeah but the the mic should not {disfmarker}User Interface: It's not a directional mic , anyway .Project Manager: I think it should work like this .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh .Project Manager: So I will try to get my presentation running .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: Mm . Can't help youwith that .User Interface: Last .Project Manager: It's no matter .Industrial Designer: Okay , it's y yeah .Project Manager: No problem . Ah yes .Industrial Designer: Right .User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: Thenpress uh alUser Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: This .Project Manager: I don't know .Industrial Designer: You know ?Project Manager: Just try .User Interface: 'Kay .Project Manager: On this normal{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Oh oh .User Interface: Alt F_ five .Project Manager: Good . Doesn't appear on the screen here .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Right well {disfmarker}Project Manager: Oh.Industrial Designer: Wow . Amazing . It's working {vocalsound} .Project Manager: Okay . Thank you . {vocalsound} Uh .Marketing: Hold that . Okay .Project Manager: Yes and you can put can clip it uh on your{disfmarker}Marketing: Okay . Mm .Project Manager: Somewhere . So , {vocalsound} good morning , everyone . Um {disfmarker} Welcome at uh {disfmarker} at the kick off meeting of our uh latest project .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I hope you all have been uh updated about it .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Good .User Interface: So . Yes .Project Manager: So w we will try to structure this uhmeeting with an a with an agenda uh as presented here . Um after the opening we will tr get acquainted to each other .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: See what our roles are in this project . So , um{disfmarker} We have been provided with uh some uh w technical tools to uh {disfmarker} to communicate and to well , learn from each other's plans uh as I can say um so w we will also try to uh to get acquainted tothis tools so they are also new to me I don't know whether you worked with them before . Um then we will come to the uh to the to the actual project plan . You all know I hope {vocalsound} how it's about uh the uhnew r remote control we are going going to design .Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Total .Project Manager: Uh then we will uh discuss uh , well , how it should be and uh {disfmarker} wh what uh what our newproduct should look lite {disfmarker} like . And uh well then uh after some twenty five minutes I hope uh we can end this meeting . So . Um basically this is about a uh a new c remote control . Um {disfmarker} We{disfmarker} When you design a new product you of {disfmarker} uh you of course want it to be original . Be uh {disfmarker} we want to be distinguished , mm ? People uh want to uh when they look at the shelf wantto think , well that's the product I I need . So it needs to be trendy . I mean trendy is what people want , so then I w they will buy our product . But then , uh , it also should work uh user friendly and uh otherwisepeople uh uh well it will not be uh be rated very well in consumer uh articles and like that .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So , the general outline of uh new project will be we first uh go through afunctional design phase . Um {disfmarker} You all get uh um certain task uh in this uh in this phase and uh then we will meet again and uh discuss this functional design . And the same holds for the uh ph two phasesuh after this , the conceptual design and after that a a more detailed design in which the the final project should get its definite shape . Alright , but first we will do some uh tool training . In all in front of you uh you seeuh the uh notebooks and w uh n note blocks and we have here a a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a white-board .User Interface: WhiteboMarketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: And um well it should work uh{disfmarker} I've read it from my uh from some colleague that it should work with some kind of toolbar . I didn't find out yet how it work , but maybe one of you did , so {disfmarker} Um {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: Under documents in the shared folder . Okay .Project Manager: Yes . Do {disfmarker} Do we have to say something about that ? I I I'm not fully updated about this shared folder uh .Industrial Designer: Yeah, I guess we'll have a shared folder uh with documents that we can share . And uh , yeah .Project Manager: Yes well we will then find out ho how it works .Industrial Designer: Yes .Project Manager: Um . Well , thisseems to me , yes , some computer program but I didn't find it yet . So , we'll come to that later . So , uh now we will try out the white-board we have here . So , I would suggest uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer:Each of us is going .Project Manager: Well , yes , um we uh we should try to t to draw on it and then well it should be smart some way . I {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I'm not really sure how this works , but{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Okay , shall I start ?Marketing: Mm . Yeah .Project Manager: Yes ,User Interface: Yeah ,Project Manager: a good idea Mael .User Interface: you can start it you know .Marketing: I thinkfor us it's just like a normal whiteboard , but they'll be recording what we write down .Industrial Designer: So , iUser Interface: No they will record through that . There's a sensor over thereMarketing: Mm . Mm .UserInterface: which is going to record the strokes that you make .Marketing: But for us it's just like a normal whiteboard .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: 'Kay .User Interface:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: But it's {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Actually , I think I cannot go with uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: You {disfmarker} you {disfmarker} D doesn't itwork ? Maybe someo Maybe {disfmarker} maybe Anna , maybe you can start .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Then he can maybe find out to get his cord right .Marketing: I have todraw .Project Manager: So um {disfmarker} L Why don't you draw uh {vocalsound} your favourite animal on on th on the white-board .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: M my {disfmarker} my favouriteanimal . {vocalsound} Sorry this is all tangled up here .Project Manager: Oh , I see uh {disfmarker}Marketing: That's better .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah . Yes . Mm . So draw it. We will try to guess what it is . {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound} I'm a very bad drawer .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Weird . Um . You're not gonna be able to guess from my drawing .I'm a bad drawer . Okay .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: They're ears , by the way .User Interface: 's a cat .Marketing: No . Um close though . Okay so {disfmarker} like a pet animal .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound} Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound} Like a cat .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: It's like a cat , so I guess it's a cat . {vocalsound}Marketing: No , not a cat though .Project Manager: What is this now?User Interface: Ah you forget about it .Industrial Designer: You're on the knife .User Interface: Yeah , uh I think it's fine . I just don't want to carry it off . Man , this wires , eh ? We need a wireless microphone.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: You know ? Pro specially we should next project we should take l like that .Marketing: Okay . So .Project Manager: So ,Marketing: It's not a cat ,Project Manager: that'sthe cat .Marketing: it's a dog .Project Manager: Oh .User Interface: So .Industrial Designer: Mael .Project Manager: It's a dog .Marketing: Yes .Project Manager: So but that's also kind of cat ,User Interface: OhProjectManager: isn't it ?User Interface: the dog doesn't have a tail ?Marketing: {vocalsound} It's got a tail then .Project Manager: B bo both predators .User Interface: Yeah , sure , yeah .Marketing: Yeah yeah .UserInterface: I thought so . The dogs have a tail .Marketing: So do cats .Project Manager: So , thank you . Uh d did you uh work out cord ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Andyou guessed cats without a tail . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah , I think I will go without {disfmarker} without it ,Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: right ?UserInterface: It'll still not extend , right ? It's not up to that .Marketing: Okay , there you go . So what favourite characteristics . Uh . Dogs are always friendly and loyal and fun . A horse ?User Interface: It's a horse.Marketing: {vocalsound} This is why you're the designer . And I'm marketing . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yes . Yes , yes this is {disfmarker} Yes definitely a horse . Yes . Oh very good . So {disfmarker}Marketing:Ah {vocalsound}Project Manager: I suppose it {disfmarker}User Interface: Ah I think you can put that .Marketing: Mm-hmm . That's it . {vocalsound} A blue and black zebra {vocalsound} .User Interface:{vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yes . Can {disfmarker} you can meet them in Africa , I think . Yes . Very good . So {disfmarker}Marketing: The very rare blue zebras . Yes .UserInterface: {gap} I'll tell to get it off my {disfmarker}Project Manager: Ma Matthew ?User Interface: Uh ? Mm-hmm .Project Manager: So {disfmarker}Marketing: You got a lot of room here .Project Manager: Maybe{disfmarker}Marketing: You can probably reach .User Interface: Oh y it's not for that .Marketing: No ?User Interface: No .Project Manager: I hope you have some space in your uh the horse of uh Mael .User Interface:Okay . Yeah . So what should I draw ? Mm . He has already to do cat .Marketing: I took a dog . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Um . A mouse ?Project Manager: This looks likes a cat who hasbeen driven over . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: And we should sum up its favourite charascharacteristics , right ?Marketing: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yes , the moustache .Industrial Designer: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: That's {disfmarker} that's definitely a cat .Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Uh yeah . And i Th They like to sleep , that's why you said you they are like this .Project Manager: {vocalsound} It's quite , you know {disfmarker} relaxed situation .Marketing:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yes .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yes , okay . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}She has the small legs .Project Manager: Th thank you , Matthew .Industrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound} Thank you , Matthew .Marketing: {vocalsound} It's a very big rat . Or a very small cat . {vocalsound}ProjectManager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Perfect . {vocalsound} Oh a rat , okay .Project Manager: Yes , this is certain uh {disfmarker} some contribution to our project . {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm'kay .Industrial Designer: And you , {gap}Marketing: Your turn .Project Manager: So . Let's see . Which animal has not been drawn yet . So you've all drawn land animals ,Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: sowhy not draw an animal from the water .Industrial Designer: A bird . Okay , in the water .Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Ah I don't know what that is . It's a bit {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm .ProjectManager: {vocalsound} Mm . {vocalsound}Marketing: It's a bit hard to guess . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: So {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: Put it colours . Maybe it would help us .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Yes .User Interface: The cat is going to eat the fish or the rat ?Industrial Designer: With different pen widths .Marketing:{vocalsound} Mm-hmm.$Project Manager: {vocalsound} So {disfmarker}Marketing: Oh , it's a shark now .Industrial Designer: Ah it's a shark , yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh , yes , why not?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Good idea .User Interface: Ah it's a baby shark , it looks to me ,Marketing: Mm .User Interface: you know it's going to eat the cat rather than the cateating the fish , no ?Industrial Designer: Oh .Marketing: Now it's a swordfish .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Why not . A swordfish .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: You have some in {disfmarker} inAustralia , right ?Marketing: Swordfish .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Um , maybe .Industrial Designer: I dunno .Marketing: I've never seen one , no .Industrial Designer: Oh well. Yeah .Project Manager: I hope it still works . So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Perfect . So I dunno if we need to spend time on that , actually {vocalsound} But uh {disfmarker}User Interface: You should go for thenext one it seems to me .Project Manager: W Well , this uh this tool seemed to work .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Yeah , exactly , yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Let's continue to uh {disfmarker}to the real stuff .Industrial Designer: Wow .Project Manager: Um our project uh finance uh thing . Uh when we are {disfmarker} and when w you are uh going to design w uh we must keep in mind that the selling priceof the product uh will be about twenty five Euros , so when designing a project uh I also look at you uh Mael , keep in mind uh uh uh {disfmarker} People uhUser Interface: Twenty four .Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: want to get the feeling this is a twenty five Euro project uh pr um product .Industrial Designer: Per remote control ,Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: yeah ? Per project .Project Manager: Yes . Okay. UmIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: more interesting for our company {vocalsound} of course , p uh profit aim , about fifty million Euro . So we have to sell uh quite a lot of this uh {vocalsound} umthings . Uh we will try to uh to get at a international market uh so um it will be I think mainly Europe and uh Northern America ,User Interface: Ah yeah , the sale man , four million .Project Manager: maybe some uhAsian countries . Um also important for you all is um the the product uh production cost must be maximal uh twelve uh twelve Euro and fifty cents .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} So it's half of the selling price , if Iam good in mathematics .Project Manager: Yes , of course . Uh um I mean we still have to uh to make a profit , huh ?User Interface: They have to sell at least four million to make a profit {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: Of course .Marketing: Mm . {vocalsound}Project Manager: You all have to be paid .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: Excuse me ?User Interface: Ah we have to make {disfmarker} we have to sell at least fourmillion to make our own profit . Fifty millIndustrial Designer: Oh you're g very good in mathematics .Marketing: Yes . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yes , indeed .User Interface:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Four million .Project Manager: So uh well I think w when we are working on the international market , uh in principle it has enough customersIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: uh so when we have a good product we uh we could uh meet this this aim , I think . So , that about finance . And uh now just let have some discussion about what is a good remote control and uh wellkeep in mind this this first point , it has to be original , it has to be trendy , it has to be user friendly . Um , maybe someone can mention some additional uh prerequisites for a good remote control .Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Of course it should have a on off button . {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Yes , well i it should have the the the the expected functionality uh of a remote control .Marketing: Mm .Yeah .User Interface: Yeah , s and it depends what application you are using it for .Marketing: Mm .User Interface: You might need uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: We wer we were thinking television . Uh .Marketing:Mm .User Interface: We are targ targeting the television set . So ,Marketing: Mm .User Interface: you need to record the channels .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: {vocalsound} You needto browse the {disfmarker} browse the channels in upward downward way ,Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: Yes , yes . Th th that's very handy I {disfmarker} I always miss it and {disfmarker} on some remotecontrols that you can go channel up or down ins instead of retyping the number , especially when you have a lot of channels .User Interface: Uh {disfmarker} And {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm . Mm .User Interface: Uh ,and {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: And uh just before starting the detailed discussion , maybe we are the marketing guy ? Or {disfmarker}Marketing: I'm marketing .User Interface: Marketing .Industrial Designer: thSo you are the marketing .Marketing: Yep .Industrial Designer: And you are in the u use user interface uh design .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Yes .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: So just{disfmarker} yeah I wanted to to be sure .User Interface: Sure .Industrial Designer: And I I'm the the industrial designerMarketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Yes .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:okay .User Interface: Oh .Industrial Designer: Because I I don't know you very well , actually , but yeah .User Interface: I'm Matthew . You know . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay . Mael .User Interface: Matth suhIndustrial Designer: Happy to meet you .Marketing: Anna .User Interface: Anna .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay . It's very uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: A and I'm Nanne .User Interface: And um uhMatthew , yeah .Project Manager: So {disfmarker}User Interface: I thi think you know me ,Industrial Designer: Uh so yeah uh {disfmarker} Just uh on your web page but uh yeah not uh {disfmarker} not face to face.Project Manager: Yes .User Interface: yeah ? right yeah .Project Manager: So . Um {disfmarker} SUser Interface: So .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} So mm {disfmarker}Project Manager: S sMarketing: Mm.Project Manager: Are there some other very important things to to do {disfmarker} well ,User Interface: So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} So IProject Manager: to specify in this first phase of of theproject . So the browse function , as you m mentioned .Marketing: Mm . Yeah . Oth yeah .User Interface: And uh , you'd need the usual ones , like the changing the volume , changing the the channel and then{disfmarker} you uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yes . Yeah .User Interface: Today we have uh um teletext and all those things . Tomorrow you might have a some more functions which might come through that , so{disfmarker}Project Manager: Yes .Industrial Designer: Like what ? Like internet on the on T_V_ ?Marketing: Mm .User Interface: Yeah I_P_O_ or . Now we are looking for television things or I_P_ . For examplepersonal video recorder and all those stuffs are coming up .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Mm . But we can't really design for something that hasn't been invented yet .User Interface: Yeah . Ah it's {disfmarker}it's {disfmarker} it's {disfmarker} it's coming up , actually . The personal video recorder and all those things it is coming up .Project Manager: Mm , well uh I I think {disfmarker} Uh w y you two should {disfmarker}should , I think , think this over uh w espec what , what functionality .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Actually , yeahUser Interface: Let's {disfmarker} Let's take {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: w {vocalsound} Ofcourse , and first before um designing the func well thinking about the functionalities , we need to know what are the user requirements .Marketing: Mm . Yeah .Industrial Designer: Um then if they need internet , thenwe would be able to to p to propose something with uh uh T_V_ over I_P_ .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Yeah . Mm . Yeah . But {disfmarker} Ninety percent of the time , ninety nine percent of the time ,people will be using the main functions , the volume , the different channels , so we can have all the fancy things as well but the main controls need to be very obvious and very easy to use .Project Manager: Mm mm"}
{"doc_id":"doc_160","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Right well . Welcome to the {disfmarker} what should be the last of these meetings and uh it looks like we've uh done a good job hereand uh we'll just go through the the final uh the final details . Um okay , oh the um th the the minutes of the last meeting uh I think we'll take those as read , um {disfmarker} OkayIndustrial Designer:{vocalsound}Project Manager: the um th the the next uh thing we we we'll have a look at the uh th have a look at the prototypes and uh look at the uh evaluation criteria and finance and then uh uh just tidy up withproduction and um and then we can close . Um So f if if you'd like to uh present your your proposals .Industrial Designer: Uh okay we basically have the same kinda lay-out here it's just um you hold it like this and itgets kinda moulded to the to the shape of your hand , basically . Um on the left we've got the scroll for the volume , on the right we have buttons for the channels up and down and that kinda {disfmarker} so you canhold it and scroll , or you can hold it and and push .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Uh this is the power key , um it's kinda like the biggest so you know how to turn on .Project Manager: Uh-huh.Industrial Designer: Uh that's the little menu key . This is the infra-red section so you g it'll be sending rays and if you're you know pointing it like that it can send it ,Project Manager: Yep ,Industrial Designer: or if youhold it up like that it'll send it .Project Manager: yeah , good , good .Industrial Designer: Uh we got a microphone there which for all the voice commandsProject Manager: Uh-huh .Industrial Designer: so you can youknow talk to it like thatProject Manager: Yep ,Industrial Designer: and it'll still understand .Project Manager: right .Industrial Designer: Um the logo is down down there umProject Manager: Uh-huh .User Interface: Mm.Industrial Designer: and {gap} has the cover on itUser Interface: SIndustrial Designer: and you can see like it just kinda goes {disfmarker} the red bit's the cover and it kinda goes over everythingProject Manager:Yep , yep ,Industrial Designer: and then there's holes for the buttons to come through . Um .Project Manager: mm-hmm .User Interface: And so we figured it would be kind of you know a light weight plastic ,ProjectManager: Uh-huh .Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: just kind of a light {vocalsound} non-descript greyProject Manager: Yep yep .User Interface: so that people'll wanna buy the coversProject Manager: Yep.User Interface: and then the covers will be that sort of rubbery material like they make iPod covers ,Project Manager: {gap} showing me age ,User Interface: so they kinda just stretch over .Industrial Designer: Mm.Project Manager: I don't know what i c iPod covers are like .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah , wellProject Manager: Yeah {gap} yeah .User Interface: I I didn't know that but yeahthey're kind of {disfmarker} it's just kind of a rubbery {disfmarker}Project Manager: Uh-huh .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: and that way {disfmarker} you knowProject Manager: Okay ,User Interface:spongy like is something that people wantedProject Manager: yep , right .User Interface: and it just sort of stretches overIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .User Interface: and that way I think probably helps protect it alittle bit too as wellProject Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: But it's also e e easier to put on versus like mobile coversUser Interface: and {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: you actually have to screw them on andstuff and you kinda sometimes have to get someone to do that for you . This is very much you should be able to stretch it over yourselfProject Manager: Yep .User Interface: just kinda stretch it overIndustrial Designer:and it'll be fine .Project Manager: Okay , good yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: and it'll just stay onIndustrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: and then the buttons come through and so {disfmarker} andthen the {disfmarker} each one of 'em on the very end will have the logo with the yellow circle and the R_R_ .Project Manager: Yep , right .Industrial Designer: Li that'll be {gap} the covers as well , yeah yeah .ProjectManager: Yeah , yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: I mean tha it's it's a detailed point , I just wondered {disfmarker} I mean h how will people put these down I wonder ?User Interface: Like that .ProjectManager: Right . Okay {gap} for some strange re reason I had it in my mind that they'd put them down verticallyIndustrial Designer: Yeah it could stand , yeah .Project Manager: but uh uh {disfmarker}User Interface:{vocalsound} Oh .Industrial Designer: Well we could broaden the {disfmarker} broaden it out a bitProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah , uh noIndustrial Designer: so it would stand like that .Project Manager: because{gap} particularly if they've dif if they're gonna have it as a you know as a fashion itemIndustrial Designer: Yeah , {gap} standing .Project Manager: uh I mean it it's uh it it's just I mean it's just a minor detailed point ,but um as you say you can just make the base a little bit bigger and uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah , we could just widen it out uhProject Manager: Yeah and uh it just needs another uh another logosomewhere is is is is all it gives gives people the option and if if say if they've got them um {gap}Industrial Designer: Mm . Mm .Project Manager: because {gap} actually have several {gap} upon the uh{disfmarker}Marketing: Could have one for your stereo , one for your {gap} D_V_ player .Industrial Designer: Mm , yeah , yeah .Project Manager: Yeah , well .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Have to{disfmarker} if we just lengthen it I guessProject Manager: {vocalsound} YeahIndustrial Designer: so it comes down to the base of the handUser Interface: Yeah ,Project Manager: but that that's uh {disfmarker} butuhUser Interface: just kind of {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: and then flatten it outProject Manager: noIndustrial Designer: and could sit there .Project Manager: the the the overall uh the overall concept is uh{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah , {vocalsound} mm .User Interface: Or just make it little .Project Manager: yeah yeah ,Industrial Designer: Yeah . Yeah .User Interface: Somewhere like thatProject Manager: nono , I mean that's {disfmarker} these uh {disfmarker}User Interface: so it just sort of {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: We might {gap} have to lengthen itMarketing: Yeah I kinda had a a kinda {disfmarker} a naturalkind of a ideaIndustrial Designer: so it kinda {disfmarker} your hand still holds it and have it there ,User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: yeah , yeah , yeah like that , like that {gap} . Yeah .Marketing: where it'slike more of a kind of {disfmarker} like a kinda maybe slightly like thinner ,User Interface: BuProject Manager: Yeah .Marketing: yeah , kinda like that kinda {gap} like a flower or a plantProject Manager: But uh yeah{disfmarker} but no th but the {disfmarker} yeah the the the {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: for the more natural kinda {disfmarker}User Interface: {gap} .Project Manager: Yeah , yeah , yeah,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} The final product would actually stand up , yeah {vocalsound} .Project Manager: I mean it it's uh {disfmarker} wouldn'tUser Interface: {gap} fall over .Project Manager: wouldn't dothat , indeed yeah . But th th but th yeah th b theUser Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: these were all minor minor uh minor details ,Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: I think theuh the basic concept i i is is absolutely bang onIndustrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: {gap} . 'S a little longer .Project Manager: and the {disfmarker} iIndustrial Designer: Wee {vocalsound} {disfmarker}ProjectManager: it certainly meets our criteria of being uh {disfmarker} of you know looking different .Industrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: Um , soUser Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: good that's that that's excellent.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um right let us um What's on the next one ? Oh right yes , let's have a look at the um f finance . Um , now we're given a a clear design brief , uh if I {gap} get the uhspreadsheet up . Oh .Marketing: Uh yeah , {vocalsound} just click there .Project Manager: {gap} .Marketing: Uh the the maximise button .Project Manager: Oh right . Ah . Good , this is why we need to make thesethings simple so that the uh the the the boss can understand .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Now I've um {vocalsound} this is the company'suh uh costing for for various uh uh aspects of design and I I I've treated some of these slightly uh liberally given the constraints placed on us , um I wouldn't know for in for instance if if they require us to have it in thecorporate colours , then that is not a special colour , that's a that's a standard colour . Uh , so we're just simply on batteries , the the one th the one decision I've had to make is that um we're {vocalsound} we will haveto find a s a regular standard chip to to do this with and I I um I'm I'm I'm certain that they they are around so , um that I don't think is a a serious problem . The uh the the voice sensor is is expensive but we we madea a basic decision that that was absolutely fundamental to the to the design so that that has to stay . Um then again the the the the shape of the case means that it's it's expensive to uh um l to make 'cause of the theth the double curves but on the other hand because of our overall fashion concept um we we should exceed the the sales targets . Um it's simply made of plastic so th that's uh that's no problem and uh um just becausethe whole {gap} the colour of the the whole thing that's uh uh there's some cost there . Um and uh we haven't actually got a scroll wheel we we we got push buttons and and a simple uh um {vocalsound} slider so umand the and the the buttons are uh uh well I do don't know that they're special colour . Anyway the the costings uh come in at {disfmarker} exactly on target at twelve point five uh but I thi I think we have a a verystrong case to argue that uh what what we've got is is so in innovative and uh and different that um {vocalsound} any any slight compromise we have to make on on cost is is offset by the uh you know the uh you knowthe the the the concept of it being a a fashion accessory and and having the the interchangeable coversIndustrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: so uh um you know the {disfmarker} if if if the management expect usto be techno {gap} again {gap} fail again {disfmarker} technologically innovative um that they they have to accept that we we can't operate absolutely within uh the constraints that they give ,Industrial Designer: Mm.Project Manager: so uh we we we present this as the uh the company's uh the the company's way forward and uh uh I I think we can argue that we we have uh come in on on budget . Um . Okay , uh . So um . Doesanybody want to uh {disfmarker} uh Andrew do you want {disfmarker} what do you want to say about um the uh yeah the evaluationMarketing: Evaluation .Project Manager: where where you know well where wherewe're where where we're at ?Marketing: The {vocalsound} the product or the project ? {vocalsound}Project Manager: The the the well the {disfmarker} I meant the product .Marketing: Um , well well my presentationjust now ?Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Sure , uh can I get the {disfmarker}Project Manager: Oh sorry yeah um , mm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Mm . More loud clicks inthe microphone .Marketing: Cheers . {vocalsound} There we go , oh . Method of evaluation {vocalsound} testing the product was to just {gap} if it met all the criteria {disfmarker} all the conditions that we set out toset out to solve , from the point of view of the the consumer and the management . So what I've been asked to do is , on the whiteboardProject Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: um gauge our team response to thesequestions . So , on a scale of one to seven , one being true and seven being being false .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Seven being a nice round number to work to .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah . And then at theend just take an averageProject Manager: Tr On for true and seven for flase . Yes .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yes {vocalsound} .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: So uh . {vocalsound} So , look at these questions . Is the device f flashy and fashionable ?Project Manager: Well I think most definitely .Industrial Designer: Yeah I'd say definitely a one yeah.User Interface: I think it is yeah .Marketing: So uh {disfmarker} and also uh technologically innovative ?Project Manager: Yes the voice technology indeed .Industrial Designer: Yeah , defi yeah , yeahUser Interface:Yeah .Marketing: Easy to use ?Project Manager: I don't see we could've made it any easier .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Uh suitable for the consumer ?That was um {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Project Manager: Totally .Industrial Designer: Yeah definitely .User Interface: Yeah I think it made {disfmarker} we met all of the consumerIndustrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing:Yeah .User Interface: wants .Marketing: Uh is it complicated ?Project Manager: No .User Interface: No .Marketing: Doing pretty well so far aren't we ? {vocalsound} Uh functional ?Project Manager: Yeah .IndustrialDesigner: Yeah definitely .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Um . {vocalsound} Where are we ?Project Manager: {gap} found easily . {gap} yeahMarketing: We've b built in the the speech , where are you , function.Project Manager: I mean that's that's {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah . Yeah . Yeah , mm-hmm .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Uh-huh .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}ProjectManager: Does it take long to learn to use ? Shouldn't .Industrial Designer: No , not at all .Marketing: Mm-hmm . And uh , what else ? {vocalsound} The R_S_I_ compares to the current standards ,Project Manager:{vocalsound} Less buttons so it must be .Industrial Designer: Uh {disfmarker}Marketing: well . We weIndustrial Designer: YeahMarketing: uh yeah it was our {disfmarker} it was a {disfmarker}Industrial Designer:{gap} it is sorta the the handle more ergonomically correct as well .Marketing: we made an actual effort to {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {gap} yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: So yeah , um um.Marketing: {vocalsound} Um will device appeal to all age groups ?Project Manager: I think it will because I mean uh old older people who can't manage the buttons anyway will actually probably like the like like thevoice bit so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: I think so .Marketing: Yeah ,Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: uh that's a good call , yeah . Well we had the we had the data {gap} saying that oldpeople will be less likely to pay extra money but the funct the increased functionality , {vocalsound} the e ease of use of the device might make up for that .Project Manager: And it's it's it's {disfmarker}{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: well I don't think we're actually charging a particular premium anyway , in the end , so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I I I think it will tend to appeal more toyounger aged groupsMarketing: Mm .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: just 'cause we have gone with the fashion focusProject Manager: Yeah . Yeah .Industrial Designer: and the younger people tend to{disfmarker} would be more conscious of that aspect of it , but um I think it should still appeal on a certain level to everybody , yeah .Project Manager: It will appeal f for dif for different reasons but it's it's uh{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah .User Interface: Yeah I think just the simplicity of itProject Manager: yeah yeahIndustrial Designer: Yeah , yeah .User Interface: andProject Manager: so I I {disfmarker}yeah I {disfmarker}User Interface: not having to learn to programmeIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .User Interface: and not having you know a million buttons .Project Manager: Yeah , so I think we canreasonably say it's another another one ,Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: why not ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Uh can you just click themy mouse to move onto next page ? Uh , yeah and what h did we make the management's {disfmarker}Project Manager: {gap} in in in in my interpretation of management's instructions uh is that yes it it meets therequirementIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: is t it's television only ,Industrial Designer: Yep .Project Manager: it's it's simple to use ,Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager:um it's it's it's within budget ,User Interface: Under the cost .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm . Yep .Project Manager: um I {disfmarker} it's uh {disfmarker} yes an an any minor points we we we argue .Marketing:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Um .Project Manager: So uh I I think we've done an amazing jobIndustrial Designer: Yep .Project Manager: in uhIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well doneus {vocalsound} .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay .Project Manager: {vocalsound} coming up with what {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} So uh one two three four five six seven eightnine ten eleven . Eleven divided by {vocalsound} eleven's one so {vocalsound} equals average of one .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah , {vocalsound} .Project Manager: {gap} Need a need acalculator for that .Marketing: And that roughly concludes my evaluation of the of the product .Project Manager: Okay ,Industrial Designer: Excellent .Project Manager: {gap} nick the cable back then .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound} Oh noUser Interface: I mixed up the colours a little bit .Industrial Designer: that's {gap} {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} I think I {gap} all wrong .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Ooh . Right do um either of you want to uh say anything ?Industrial Designer: Uh .Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: Before I uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface:Ps I don't think so ,Project Manager: No .Industrial Designer: {gap} .User Interface: I mean I think we worked well togetherProject Manager: Yeah .User Interface: and looked really at what the consumers wanted andwhat we were trying to makeProject Manager: Yeah .User Interface: and you know , seemed to discuss things pretty wellIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .User Interface: and come to group consensus and{disfmarker}Project Manager: Well that's right , I mean th this this slide here I mean the satisfaction with uh room for creativity , I meanIndustrial Designer: Mm . Yeah , definitely .Project Manager: I think we'veallowed ourselves uh as much creativity as the uh the the the product uh allows .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Um I won't comment on leadership , uh teamwork I think we've uh {disfmarker} I thinkeverybody's uh worked pretty well together .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Um we've just about coped with the whiteboard and digital pens , uh I think the results speak for itselfIndustrial Designer:Mm .Project Manager: and new ideas found , um , again gi no given relatively everyday product , I think we've v very uh very effectively come up with a a new uhUser Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yep .ProjectManager: uh a new approach . Um are the costs within budget ? Yes . Is the project evaluated ? We're we're all happy that it it meets all the criteria , umIndustrial Designer: Yep .Project Manager: Thank you very muchindeed , I think that {disfmarker} I think that's uh {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Cool , thank you {vocalsound} ,User Interface: Alright .Project Manager: I think we can go f for an early bath .User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So I call the meeting closed .User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: Not sure how farahead of schedule we were there ."}
{"doc_id":"doc_161","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Okay everybody is ready ? {vocalsound} Good morning again . So , today we are going to have a f second meeting . Oh Michael , hi .User Interface: Yep .Project Manager: You're late . You have a goodreason for that ?User Interface: {vocalsound} Yes .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Very good {vocalsound} . {vocalsound} Okay , let's have a look to the agenda today . {vocalsound}So , we are going to have a meeting about the functional design . Um so first before starting I w just going to uh to go quickly to {disfmarker} through the minutes of previous meeting . So uh {vocalsound} basically wewe are not decided if w we should go for a universal or specific uh uh remote control , but I have new um new i inputs for {disfmarker} about that topics . I goin I'm going to share with you . {vocalsound} And uhbasically we decided to um to uh go to individual actions for each of you uh so um Industrial Designer should wor was supposed to work on th on th on the working design . You showed us {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: Yep .Project Manager: you ar you you prepare something for us ?Industrial Designer: Yeah . Yep .Project Manager: The U_I_ guy also uh work on that , yeah , and for the mar our Marketing Expert shoulddeliver some specs .User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: Alright {vocalsound} so {vocalsound} so we are going to go through three of your individual presentations . But first I would like quickly to uh to decide of{disfmarker} to give a name to the project . So , I just put d quickly Remo , but if you have any o other names that we co could decide for just to to keep something fun for our project we we should {disfmarker} wecould discuss quickly . Any ideas ?User Interface: Uh the Powerstick .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Powerstick , yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: What else ? Whatelse ?Marketing: Uh . {vocalsound}User Interface: Maybe a Spanish name would work well .Marketing: Mm I was thinking of the {disfmarker}User Interface: Especially if we're selling into the U_S_ market becasuethere's a lot of Spanish speakers there . Maybe something that sounds cool in English but sounds funny in Spanish .Marketing: Mando .User Interface: Mando .Project Manager: Mango ? Mango ?User Interface: What isthat ?Marketing: Mando .Project Manager: Mando . M_A_ ? M_A_ ?Marketing: A*_N_ yeah D_O .Project Manager: M_ D_O_ . Mm , okay .Marketing: It doesn't it doesn't sound cool for me ,Project Manager: What does itmean ? Oh .Marketing: but maybe for a Spanish {disfmarker} for I {disfmarker} for {disfmarker}User Interface: What does it mean in Spanish ?Marketing: Control .User Interface: Control .Project Manager: Hmm .Nice .User Interface: Okay . 'Cause it also {disfmarker} like in English it sounds like you know the man's tool you know because you know men like to have control of the remoteMarketing: But {disfmarker} mm , yeah.User Interface: so it might {disfmarker}Marketing: Mando sounds Latino . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: The Mando .Project Manager: {vocalsound} So , let's go for Mando ? Yeah ? No objection ?Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah .User Interface: Yeah that's {gap}.Project Manager: Great . So {disfmarker}User Interface: And we could have some like you d you could have the fonts you know special , so you have man in like in in uh in one o in one font and then the O_ as like{disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay , I think this is {disfmarker}User Interface: Although you don't wanna cut uh cut women out of the uh potential buyers though ,Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: do you ? So{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah they are the most T_V_ watcher . So we should be careful .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay , I think this is more a question of of {disfmarker}User Interface:Marketing .Marketing: But {disfmarker} yeahProject Manager: I I think this is more a question of of look and feel .Marketing: it uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Something that should be addressed later We should weshould go to other {disfmarker} for the other topics .Marketing: Yeah because if the product will be international {disfmarker}User Interface: Well that's the thing . We need to know who we're selling it to before we canreally decide on a {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah okay , so let's stick f to Man Mando for the nameUser Interface: Um .Project Manager: and we'll see for the for the look and feel later . So let's go for the threepresentations right now . So , who want to start ?User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So maybe we could start with the market , yeah .Marketing: Maybe maybe I should uh start . Yeah . Mm . Okay .ProjectManager: Okay so I have your slides somewhere ?Marketing: Yeah . Should be in participant four .Project Manager: Participant four . {vocalsound} This one ?Marketing: Yeah , yeah . {vocalsound} Uh .Project Manager:S that's coming . Uh {gap}User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: okay . Great .Industrial Designer: Yep .Marketing: Okay so yeah I will I will give a brief outline about what I what I prepared for this meeting .ProjectManager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: For the functional requirements and especially for the for the user requirements . I prepare a marketing report and we have to find the weaknesses and and the the improvements wecould do to the current remote controls . And also I di I did a study with {disfmarker} for the incorporation of new technologies it seems that the remote controls have been {disfmarker} have remained the same for thelast five , ten years . There is no no significant difference between the the b the first new controls and {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay . Sh next slide ?Marketing: Yeah . Yeah .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing:Well {vocalsound} {vocalsound} more {disfmarker} most of the people think that remote controls are ugly , thoroughly . So and they they admit that the the they should uh s they would uh spend more money in afancier remote control , which is which is good and it's interesting point . Also the people are worried about about the R*_S_I_ disease , which is if you repeat the sa the same movement , which is not a {disfmarker}with a not very appropriate device , you you will have problems whe when you will get old . So s people are uh are worried about the the shape of the of the remote control . They are also {vocalsound} {disfmarker}they get angry very often because they lost the remote control very often , so I think it would be a good point to to l to to find a a solution to {disfmarker} any beep any alarm or something incorporated to {disfmarker}with the remote control every time it it get lost .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: And also I found that young people {disfmarker} the the younger people are the more interested they are in incorporating newtechnologies in the in the remote control .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: So {vocalsound} {vocalsound} in my opinion the Mando {disfmarker} this Mando shouldn't be very small because the smaller it is , themore like {disfmarker} the the liklier it is to get lost . Liklier or more likely ?User Interface: More likely . {gap}Marketing: {gap} likely . Okay . Uh {vocalsound} people also complain because they they they all have thesame size of the buttons for buttons who w which are not very use like f uh memorising channels or or this kind of actions which are not very often but {vocalsound} they they shouldn't they shouldn't have the sameimportance in the in the uh in the remote cont in the remote control . Also the z the design should fit the hand shape . So it may be interesting to to think in a {disfmarker} in both prototypes , for right and left handedpeople .User Interface: Well th the on the thing is though , most remote controls are used by more than one person . So unless you're kind of targeting single people you know you're gonna maybeMarketing:{vocalsound} Yeah .User Interface: cut out some {disfmarker} a lot of your market .Marketing: I dunno I th Anyway I think it could be int interesting to to release some {disfmarker} a a small fraction of of this remotecontrols .Industrial Designer: Well maybe it could be a universal design .Marketing: Sorry ?Industrial Designer: A universal design , which is which is good for both the hands .User Interface: Still shaped for yeah foryour hand but not for a particular hand , right ?Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah ? That's right , whether it's left hand or right hand ,Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: but but {vocalsound} don't you thinkthat the two points are clashing , one thing you are saying design should fit the hand shape and it should not be very small ?Marketing: Sorry ?Industrial Designer: The first and the third point , they are clashing .UserInterface: Well it can still be a {gap} , you can still extend past the hand .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Okay .User Interface: Uh .Marketing: Like uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Sofitting the hand doesn't mean much then .User Interface: Well it means {disfmarker} like , this remote here is kind of {disfmarker} is very thin and long so instead of having {disfmarker} you know you might have itkind of {disfmarker} a bit biggerIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm mm-hmm .Marketing: Yeah , like {disfmarker}User Interface: or , you know , with maybe some some finger molds or something .Industrial Designer:Mm-hmm mm-hmm mm-hmm .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So it means design should be similar to the traditional ones ?User Interface: {gap}Industrial Designer: Little sleek , longer ?UserInterface: {gap}Industrial Designer: And it should fit the hand .Marketing: No no I was thinking of so like something {disfmarker}Project Manager: Something with the shape of the palm ?Industrial Designer: Mm-hmmmm-hmm mm-hmm .Marketing: yeah .User Interface: Some finger grips maybe .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: You could even have some buttons like you know on the sides and everything ,Project Manager: On thesides .Marketing: Yeah yeah . It sh it shouldn't it shouldn't be symmetric symmetrical .User Interface: but {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm-hm mm-hmm mm-hmm .Marketing: Not anymore . That's what{disfmarker} yeah .Project Manager: And then finally {disfmarker}Marketing: And finally , the incorporation of a L_C_D_ or a speech recognition system in the remote control could also be interesting , but I don't knowif the budget would be large enough .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah . First I'm just wondering about the L_C_D_ stuff because uh because {disfmarker}Marketing: But most of {disfmarker} yeah most ofthe young people to thirty to thirty years old were really interested in this kind of technology .Project Manager: Yeah , so maybe it's a good time for me to uh {vocalsound} to bring you to some new uh new informations. We had the new requirements from the {disfmarker} so uh from the head offices of the company , and so they wanted {disfmarker} so they want to um {disfmarker} they would like to be restricted to T_V_ .UserInterface: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay , I dunno if you had this information already . No ,User Interface: No .Project Manager: so they want us to restrict the remote control to T_V_ only because of time limitations .Um they want also uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Actually this marketing report is restricted to T_V_ remote controls .Project Manager: Excellent . So we have also to focus more on the internet aspects because well wellte teletext is outdated now and uh finally , {vocalsound} it should be clear that the corporate image , that means colours and logos of the co our company should be clearly inde identified in the product . So{disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} I was still uh I was still working on this uh twenty five Euro price point because I think actually having looked at some of the remotes out there , this is quite a low uh price if ifwe're {disfmarker} maybe I can get to this in my presentation though ,Project Manager: Yeah yeah . Sure sure .User Interface: but um yeah .Project Manager: So maybe we can jump to your presentations , right now.User Interface: Yep . Okay .Project Manager: Okay so let's keep in mind about tha that that {disfmarker} this last point about L_C_D_ and speech uh recoUser Interface: Yeah . I think even even if it was within budgetdo a speech reco rec system it might be a bit difficult because if you think {disfmarker} if you're watching T_V_ you're gonna have a lot of this uh background noise from the T_V_ which might interfere with the{disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Sorry , what is your {gap} ?User Interface: Uh participant three . You might have some background noise from the T_V_ which will make the speech recognition much uhharder , so .Marketing: Yeah but you should be able to activate or disactivate , so {disfmarker} yeah yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound} Oh you press a press a button to talk , and the the T_V_ the T_V_ {vocalsound}sound turns off . {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah uh channel fifty .Industrial Designer: No it could be command control kind of thing .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: It requir recognises particular sequenceand then it gets activated . Means you say {disfmarker} you should say like does that , remote control being on or be on kind of thing , and then remote control comes in the picture for the speech recognition .UserInterface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Because this kind of thing means speech is there from the T_V_ also .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: So there should be something command controlled , you start andthen you stop .User Interface: Mm . Yeah .Industrial Designer: It's like V_I_ editor , you are having two modes similarly .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Otherwise it's just lying idle .Project Manager:Okay Michael .User Interface: Okay , so , could I describe the mouse maybe {gap} be easier to {disfmarker}Project Manager: Sorry ?User Interface: could I use the mouse , or {disfmarker}Project Manager: Um yeah.User Interface: Mm . Thanks . Okay .Project Manager: The wheel doesn't work .User Interface: {vocalsound} Great {vocalsound} .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Okayso um while uh researching this this topic I first of all just thought of a couple of things that I would like to see in a remote , and just uh looked to see if they're actually available in any current remotes , and then alsosearched for which are the top-rated uh remote controls on Epinions dot com , which is a a you know a a customer um written basically review site . So um there's a pretty wide range of uh remote controls these daysand and uh this remote control on the right here is is one of the more extravagant , but it's not really {disfmarker} it's by no means uh mm you know {vocalsound} on it's own in being so expensive . There are a lot ofexpensive remote controls out there .Project Manager: {gap} Looks like a P_D_A_ {gap} ?User Interface: So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} yeah it doe it's {disfmarker} well basically all the functions uh are controlledthrough through the L_C_D_ screen except for the really really kind of main functions , which have a couple of of their own buttons . Um and if you look at a lot of the universal remotes out um on the market , I knowwe're working on television remote , but a lot of the universal remotes out there have uh have these L_C_D_ screens which kind of helps when you're using multiple uh devices I suppose because you can have multiplekind of functions {disfmarker} d different functions on the screen at different times . But um the thing that I find most interesting about this remote control , and it's kind of difficult to uh to see in the slide , but it has ascroll wheel on it , which is kind of like uh a mouse scroll wheel , which I think is {disfmarker} it's a really kind of important design aspect um is {disfmarker} it's {disfmarker} 'Cause the thing is what a {vocalsound}what we {disfmarker} the presen this presentation we had is what we want the remote control to actually do . And obviously the the simplest thing that a remote control does is it just change the change the channel.Industrial Designer: Change the channels .User Interface: Now umIndustrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: uh the {disfmarker} I think that a scroll wheel is actually pretty a pretty handy way of of changing thechannel . 'Cause I know when I um when I use the remote to change the channel I very rarely use the numbers on the on the pad . I usually use the up and downIndustrial Designer: Mmm-hmm mm-hmm . Yeah yeah.User Interface: because most channels are you know two digit numbers and you have to press you know a special button to enter a two-digit number , and then two numbers , so that's just uh {disfmarker} it'sannoying . So I think a scroll wheel is is quite handy . Now um the the scroll wheel is is much more useful if you have an L_C_D_ screen , and this brings us to the the point you were mentioning before about theinternet uh capability .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: One possibility , if we {disfmarker} now we need to still talk about the price point because obviously a lot of this stuff can't be done for twenty five Euuh Euro , but one possibility is to download program information into the L_C_D_ screen so that instead of actually saying I want to I want to go to channel thirty seven because I know this programme's on , you know ,often you don't know what ch what channel it's on , or you don't know what's on . If you have a list of of programs on your L_C_D_ screen you just scroll to that program rather than to a channel . So if you think about{disfmarker} it's kind of like a {disfmarker} you know in mobile phones now you don't use {disfmarker} you don't remember people's phone number , you remember their name and you go find that name and ring it.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: So this would be pretty {disfmarker} kind of a handy thing to have , but um we we really need t to discuss the price . So , I mean there are {vocalsound} there are uhcheaper {disfmarker} this is another multi kinda purpose remote control where it's it's it's very simple , there's only a few buttons , but al each of those buttons does something different in a different context . So this issomething else we might wanna consider , is really kind of limiting the number of buttons , because this is the top rating uh universal remote control on on Epinions . It it's really uh maybe worth thinking about limitingthe number of buttons as much as as possible um because really I think people want to be able to find the button they're looking for without even looking at the remote control . And {gap} was saying before abouthaving different size buttons for different you know frequently used uh tasks , but I think also you know the location and and shape of the buttons is important , but also the number of buttons . So if you have too manybuttons it it it increases the the difficulty of finding the one you want .Industrial Designer: But there is one problem {gap} then the user has to understand each of that functionality .User Interface: So{disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Yeah well we wIndustrial Designer: Because the same button is doing too many things .User Interface: Yeah well we will have a bit of a simpler uh task in thatwe're only doing uh a television remote control . Um I think maybe one option is to have you know a little flip-open um door that uh that you have hidden most of the time , but contains the extra buttons like , say , thenumber buttons for instance . UmIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .User Interface: {vocalsound} I I would {disfmarker} if I had my perfect remote control , I'd probably just have no numbers at all on it because they'rejust in the way .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .User Interface: They don't really do anything . Maybe you know I {disfmarker} although I do also find flip-open doors a bit of a pain because sometimes they can breakoff or or whatever , but maybe a door that you can you can permanantly remove or permanantly have on would be good .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Um {vocalsound} but I think definitely you needto to keep the buttons down to a minimum , but not not let that kind of interfere with the functionality of of the device . Um {disfmarker}Marketing: H I think I think that the tr the transition to this to this new remotecontrol shouldn't be very very abrupt very hard because w if people see a remo see the {disfmarker} see a remote control without numbers mm they will think it's very difficult to learn very difficult to {disfmarker} verydifferent build {disfmarker} very different to the traditional {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: It does sampling out of the {gap} .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Well I guess that depends"}
{"doc_id":"doc_162","qid":"","text":"Professor A:  Am I on ? I guess so . Radio two . Hmm . Radio two .Grad E: Hello ?Professor A: Wow .Grad E: Mm - hmm . Hi ?PhD B: Blow into it , it works really well .Grad F: Channel B .Professor A: People say thestrangest things when their microphones are on .PhD D: Channel four . Test .PhD C: Uh - oh .PhD D: OK .PhD C: Radio four .Grad E: Hello ?Professor A: So everybody everybody 's on ?PhD D: Today 'sProfessor A: Yeah. So y you guys had a {disfmarker} a meeting with uh {disfmarker} with Hynek which I unfortunately had to miss . Um and uh somebodyPhD C: Mmm .Professor A: eh e and uh I guess Chuck you weren't there either ,so the uhPhD B: I was there .Professor A: Oh you were there ?PhD B: With Hynek ?Professor A: Yeah .PhD B: Yeah .Professor A: So everybody knows what happened except me . OK . {vocalsound} Maybe somebodyshould tell me .PhD C: Oh yeah . Alright . Well . Uh first we discussed about some of the points that I was addressing in the mail I sent last week .Professor A: Uh - huh .PhD C: So . Yeah . About the um , well{disfmarker} the downsampling problem .Professor A: Yeah .PhD C: Uh and about the f the length of the filters and {disfmarker} Yeah .Professor A: What was the {disfmarker} w what was the downsampling problemagain ?PhD C: So we had {disfmarker}Professor A: I forget .PhD C: So the fact that there {disfmarker} there is no uh low - pass filtering before the downsampling . Well .Professor A: Uh - huh .PhD C: There is becausethere is LDA filtering but that 's perhaps not uh the best w mProfessor A: Depends what it 's frequency characteristic is , yeah .PhD C: Well . Mm - hmm .Professor A: So you could do a {disfmarker} you could do astricter one .PhD D: System onProfessor A: Maybe . Yeah .PhD C: Yeah . So we discussed about this , about the um {disfmarker}Professor A: Was there any conclusion about that ?PhD C: Uh \" try it \" . Yeah .ProfessorA: I see .PhD C: I guess .Professor A: Yeah . So again this is th this is the downsampling {vocalsound} uh of the uh {disfmarker} the feature vector streamPhD C: Uh .Professor A: and um Yeah I guess the{disfmarker} the uh LDA filters they were doing do have um {vocalsound} uh let 's see , so the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the feature vectors are calculated every ten milliseconds so uh the question is how fardown they are at fifty {disfmarker} fifty hertz . Uh . {vocalsound} Um .PhD C: Yeah . Mm - hmm .Professor A: Sorry at twenty - five hertz since they 're downsampling by two . So . Does anybody know what thefrequency characteristic is ?PhD C: We don't have yetProfessor A: Oh OK .PhD C: um {vocalsound} So , yeah .Professor A: OK .PhD C: We should have a look first at , perhaps , {vocalsound} the modulation spectrum.Professor A: Yeah .PhD C: Um . So there is this , there is the um length of the filters . Um . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} So the i this idea of trying to find filters with shorter delays . Um . We started to work with this.Professor A: Hmm - hmm .PhD C: Mmm . And the third point um {vocalsound} {vocalsound} was the um , yeah , {vocalsound} the on - line normalization where , well , the recursion f recursion for the meanestimation {vocalsound} is a filter with some kind of delayProfessor A: Yeah .PhD C: and that 's not taken into account right now . Um . Yeah . And there again , yeah . For this , the conclusion of Hynek was , well , \" wecan try it but {disfmarker} \"Professor A: Uh - huh .PhD C: Um .Professor A: Try {disfmarker} try what ?PhD C: So try to um {vocalsound} {vocalsound} um take into account the delay of the recursion for the meanestimation .Professor A: OK .PhD C: Mmm . And this {disfmarker} we 've not uh worked on this yet . Um , yeah . And so while discussing about these {disfmarker} these LDA filters , some i issues appeared , like well ,the fact that if we look at the frequency response of these filters it 's uh , well , we don't know really what 's the important part in the frequency response and there is the fact that {vocalsound} in the very lowfrequency , these filters don't {disfmarker} don't really remove a lot . {vocalsound} compared to the {disfmarker} to the uh standard RASTA filter . Uh and that 's probably a reason why , yeah , on - line normalizationhelps because it {disfmarker} it ,Professor A: Right .PhD C: yeah , it removed this mean . Um . Yeah , but perhaps everything could {disfmarker} should be {disfmarker} could be in the filter , I mean , uh the{disfmarker} the mean normalization and {disfmarker} Yeah . So . Yeah . So basically that was {disfmarker} that 's {vocalsound} all we discussed about . We discussed about {vocalsound} good things to do also uhwell , generally good stuff {vocalsound} to do for the research .Professor A: Mm - hmm .PhD C: And this was this LDA uh tuning perhaps and {vocalsound} Hynek proposed again to his uh TRAPS , so .Professor A: OK.PhD C: Yeah ,Professor A: I mean I g I guess the key thing for me is {disfmarker} is figuring out how to better coordinate between the two sidesPhD C: um .Professor A: cuz {disfmarker} because umPhD C: Mm -hmm .Professor A: uh I was talking with Hynek about it later and the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} sort of had the sense sort of that {disfmarker} that neither group of people wanted to {disfmarker} to bother theother group too much . And {disfmarker} and I don't think anybody is , you know , closed in in their thinking or are unwilling to talk about things but I think that {vocalsound} you were sort of waiting for them to{vocalsound} tell you that they had something for you and {disfmarker} and that {disfmarker} and expected that they would do certain things and they were sor they didn't wanna bother youPhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor A: and {vocalsound} they were sort of waiting for you and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and uh we ended up with this thing where they {disfmarker} they were filling up all of the possible latencythemselves , and they just had hadn't thought of that . So . Uh . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} I mean it 's true that maybe {disfmarker} maybe no one really thought aboutthat {disfmarker} that this latency thing would be such a {disfmarker} a strict issuePhD C: Yeah . Well , but . Yeah . Yeah . Well {disfmarker}Professor A: in {disfmarker} in uh {disfmarker} the other {disfmarker}PhDC: Yeah I don't know what happened really , butProfessor A: Yeah .PhD C: I guess it 's {disfmarker} it 's also so uh the time constraints . Because , {vocalsound} well , we discussed about that {disfmarker} about thisproblem and they told us \" well , we will do all that 's possible to have enough space for a network \" but then , yeah , perhaps they were too short with the time andProfessor A: Then they couldn't . I see .PhD C: uhyeah . But there was also problem {disfmarker} perhaps a problem of communication . So , yeah . Now we will try to {disfmarker}Professor A: Just talk more .PhD C: Yeah , slikes and send mails .Professor A: Yeah.PhD C: u s o o Yeah .Professor A: Yeah .PhD C: Uh . OK .Professor A: So there 's um {disfmarker} Alright . Well maybe we should just uh I mean you 're {disfmarker} you 're bus other than that you folks are busydoing all the {disfmarker} all the things that you 're trying that we talked about before right ? And this {disfmarker} machines are busy and {vocalsound} you 're busyPhD C: Yeah .Professor A: andPhD C: Basically.Professor A: Yeah . OK . Oh .PhD C: Um .Professor A: Let 's {disfmarker} let 's , I mean , I think that as {disfmarker} as we said before that one of the things that we 're imagining is that uh there {disfmarker} therewill be {vocalsound} uh in the system we end up with there 'll be something to explicitly uh uh do something about noisePhD C: Mm - hmm .Professor A: in addition to the uh other things that we 're talking about andthat 's probably the best thing to do . And there was that one email that said that {vocalsound} it sounded like uh uh things looked very promising up there in terms of uh I think they were using Ericsson 's{vocalsound} approach or something and {vocalsound} in addition to {disfmarker} They 're doing some noise removal thing , right ?PhD C: Yeah , yeah . So yeah we 're {disfmarker} will start to do this also .ProfessorA: Yeah .PhD C: Uh so Carmen is just looking at the Ericsson {disfmarker} Ericsson code .PhD D: Yeah . We modifProfessor A: Mm - hmm .PhD C: AndPhD D: Yeah , I modified it {disfmarker} well , modifying{disfmarker} {vocalsound} I studied Barry 's sim code , more or less . to take @ @ the first step the spectral subtraction . and we have some {disfmarker} the feature for Italian database and we will try with thisfeature with the filter to find the result .Professor A: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .PhD D: But we haven't result until this moment .Professor A: Yeah , sure .PhD D: But well , we are working in this alsoProfessor A: Yeah.PhD D: and maybe try another type of spectral subtraction , I don't {disfmarker}Professor A: When you say you don't have a result yet you mean it 's {disfmarker} it 's just that it 's in process or that you {disfmarker}{vocalsound} it finished and it didn't get a good result ?PhD D: No . No , no n we have n we have do the experiment only have the feature {disfmarker} the feature but the experiment havePhD C: Yeah .PhD D: wehave not make the experimentProfessor A: Oh . OK .PhD D: and maybe will be good result or bad result , we don't know .Professor A: Yeah . Yeah .PhD C: Yeah .Professor A: OK . So um I suggest actually now we{disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we sorta move on and {disfmarker} and hear what 's {disfmarker} what 's {disfmarker} what 's happening in {disfmarker} in other areas like {vocalsound} what 's {disfmarker} what 'shappening with your {vocalsound} investigations {vocalsound} about echos and so on .Grad F: Oh um Well um I haven't started writing the test yet , I 'm meeting with Adam todayProfessor A: Mm - hmm .Grad F: umand he 's going t show me the scripts he has for um {vocalsound} {vocalsound} running recognition on mee Meeting Recorder digits .Professor A: Mm - hmm .Grad F: Uh {vocalsound} I also um {vocalsound}{vocalsound} haven't got the code yet , I haven't asked Hynek for {disfmarker} for the {disfmarker} for his code yet . Cuz I looked at uh Avendano 's thesis and {vocalsound} I don't really understand what he 's doingyet but it {disfmarker} {vocalsound} it {disfmarker} it sounded like um {vocalsound} the channel normalization part {vocalsound} um of his thesis um {vocalsound} was done in a {disfmarker} a bit of I don't knowwhat the word is , a {disfmarker} a bit of a rough way um {vocalsound} it sounded like he um he {disfmarker} he {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it wasn't really fleshed out and maybe he did something that was{vocalsound} interesting for the test situation but I {disfmarker} I 'm not sure if it 's {vocalsound} what I 'd wanna use so I have to {disfmarker} I have to read it more , I don't really understand what he 's doing yet.Professor A: OK . Yeah I haven't read it in a while so I 'm not gonna be too much help unless I read it again ,PhD D: It 's myPhD C: Oh yeah ?PhD D: I know this is mine here .Professor A: so . OK . Um . {vocalsound}The um {disfmarker} so you , and then {vocalsound} you 're also gonna be doing this echo cancelling between the {disfmarker} the close mounted and the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} and the {disfmarker} the{disfmarker} the {disfmarker} what we 're calling a cheating experiment uh of sorts between the distant {disfmarker}Grad F: Uh I I 'm ho Right . Well {disfmarker} {vocalsound} or I 'm hoping {disfmarker} I 'mhoping Espen will do it .Professor A: Ah ! OK .Grad F: UmProfessor A: F umGrad F: uProfessor A: Delegate . That 's good . It 's good to delegate .Grad F: I {disfmarker} I think he 's at least planning to do it for the clclose - mike cross - talk and so maybe I can just take whatever setup he has and use it .Professor A: Great . Great . Yeah actually um he should uh I wonder who else is I think maybe it 's Dan Ellis is going to be doinguh a different cancellation . Um . {vocalsound} One of the things that people working in the meeting task wanna get at is they would like to have cleaner {vocalsound} close - miked recordings . So uh this is especiallytrue for the lapel but even for the close {disfmarker} close - miked uh cases um we 'd like to be able to have {vocalsound} um other sounds from other people and so forth removed from {disfmarker} So whensomeone isn't speaking you 'd like the part where they 're not speaking to actually be {disfmarker} So {vocalsound} what they 're talking about doing is using ec uh echo cancellation - like techniques . It 's not reallyecho but {vocalsound} uh just um uh taking the input from other mikes and using uh {vocalsound} uh a uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} an adaptive filtering approach to remove the effect of that uh other speech . So .Um what was it , there was {disfmarker} there was some {disfmarker} some {disfmarker} some point where {vocalsound} eh uh Eric or somebody was {disfmarker} was speaking and he had lots of {vocalsound}silence in his channel and I was saying something to somebody else uh {vocalsound} which was in the background and it was not {disfmarker} it was recognizing my words , which were the background speech{vocalsound} on the close {disfmarker} {vocalsound} close mike .Grad F: Hmm .PhD B: Oh the {disfmarker} What we talked about yesterday ?Professor A: Yes .PhD B: Yeah that was actually my {disfmarker} I waswearing the {disfmarker} I was wearing the lapel and you were sitting next to me ,Professor A: Oh you {disfmarker} it was you I was Yeah .PhD B: and I only said one thing but you were talking and it was picking upall your words .Professor A: Yeah . Yeah . So they would like clean channels . Uh and for that {disfmarker} mmm uh {disfmarker} that purpose uh they 'd like to pull it out . So I think {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I thinkDan Ellis or somebody who was working with him was going to uh work on that . So . OK . Right ? Um . {vocalsound} And uh I don't know if we 've talked lately about the {disfmarker} the plans you 're developing thatwe talked about this morning uh I don't remember if we talked about that last week or not , but {vocalsound} maybe just a quick reprise of {disfmarker} of what we were saying this morning .Grad E: OK .Professor A:Uh .Grad E: Um . {comment} So continuing to um extendPhD B: What about the stuff that um Mirjam has been doing ? And {disfmarker} and S Shawn , yeah . Oh . So they 're training up nets to try to recognize theseacoustic features ? I see .Professor A: But that 's uh uh all {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} is a {disfmarker} a certainly relevant {comment} {vocalsound} uh study and , you know , what are the features that they're finding . We have this problem with the overloading of the term \" feature \" soPhD B: Yeah .Professor A: uh {vocalsound} what are the variables , what we 're calling this one , what are the variables that they 'refound {disfmarker} finding usefulPhD C: Hmm .Professor A: um for {disfmarker}PhD B: And their {disfmarker} their targets are based on canonical mappings of phones to acoustic f features .Professor A: Right . Andthat 's certainly one thing to do and we 're gonna try and do something more f more fine than that but uh um so um So I guess you know what , I was trying to remember some of the things we were saying , do you hastill have that {disfmarker} ? Yeah .Grad E: Oh yeah .Professor A: There 's those {vocalsound} {pause} that uh yeah , some of {disfmarker} some of the issues we were talking about was in j just getting a good handleon {disfmarker} on uh {vocalsound} what \" good features \" are and {disfmarker}PhD B: What does {disfmarker} what did um Larry Saul use for {disfmarker} it was the sonorant uh detector , right ? How did he{disfmarker} H how did he do that ? Wh - what was his detector ? Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm . Oh , OK . Mm - hmm . So how did he combine all these features ? What {disfmarker} what r mmm classifier did he Hmm . Ohright . You were talking about that , yeah . I see .Professor A: And the other thing you were talking about is {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} is where we get the targets from . So I mean , there 's these issues of what arethe {disfmarker} what are the variables that you use and do you combine them using the soft \" AND - OR \" or you do something , you know , more complicated um and then the other thing was so where do you get thetargets from ? The initial thing is just the obvious that we 're discussing is starting up with phone labels {vocalsound} from somewhere and then uh doing the transformation . But then the other thing is to do somethingbetter and eh w why don't you tell us again about this {disfmarker} this database ? This is the {disfmarker}PhD B: Hmm !Professor A: And then tell them to talk naturally ? Yeah , yeah .PhD B: Pierced tongues andYeah . You could just mount it to that and they wouldn't even notice . Weld it . Zzz .Professor A: Maybe you could go to these parlors and {disfmarker} and you could , you know {disfmarker} you know have{disfmarker} have , you know , reduced rates if you {disfmarker} {vocalsound} if you can do the measurements .PhD B: Yeah . I That 's right . You could {disfmarker} what you could do is you could sell little rings andstuff with embedded you know , transmitters in them and thingsProfessor A: Yeah . Yeah , be cool and help science .PhD B: and Yeah .Professor A: OK .PhD B: Hmm ! There 's a bunch of data that l around , that{disfmarker} people have done studies like that w way way back right ? I mean {vocalsound} I can't remember where {disfmarker} uh Wisconsin or someplace that used to have a big database of {disfmarker} Yeah . Iremember there was this guy at A T - andT , Randolph ? or r What was his name ? Do you remember that guy ? Um , {vocalsound} {vocalsound} researcher at A T - andT a while back that was studying , trying to dospeech recognition from these kinds of features . I can't remember what his name was . Dang . Now I 'll think of it . That 's interesting .Professor A: Do you mean eh {disfmarker} but you {disfmarker} I mean{disfmarker} MarPhD C: Well he was the guy {disfmarker} the guy that was using {disfmarker}Professor A: you mean when was {disfmarker} was Mark Randolph there , or {disfmarker} ?PhD B: Mark Randolph.Professor A: Yeah he 's {disfmarker} he 's {disfmarker} he 's at Motorola now .PhD B: Oh is he ?Professor A: Yeah .PhD B: Oh OK .Professor A: Yeah .PhD B: Yeah .PhD C: Is it the guy that was using the pattern ofpressure on the tongue or {disfmarker} ?PhD B: I can't remember exactly what he was using , now . But I know {disfmarker} I just remember it had to do with you know {vocalsound} uh positional parametersPhD C:What {disfmarker} Yeah .PhD B: and trying to m you know do speech recognition based on them .PhD C: Mm - hmm .Professor A: Yeah . So the only {disfmarker} the only uh hesitation I had about it since , I mean Ihaven't see the data is it sounds like it 's {disfmarker} it 's {vocalsound} continuous variables and a bunch of them . And soPhD B: Hmm .Professor A: I don't know how complicated it is to go from there {disfmarker}What you really want are these binary {pause} labels , and just a few of them . And maybe there 's a trivial mapping if you wanna do it and it 's e but it {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I worry a little bitthat this is a research project in itself , whereas um {vocalsound} if you did something instead that {disfmarker} like um having some manual annotation by {vocalsound} uh you know , linguistics students , this would{disfmarker} there 'd be a limited s set of things that you could do a as per our discussions with {disfmarker} with John beforePhD B: Mm - hmm .Professor A: but the things that you could do , like nasality and voicingand a couple other things you probably could do reasonably well .PhD B: Mm - hmm .Professor A: And then there would {disfmarker} it would really be uh this uh uh binary variable . Course then , that 's the otherquestion is do you want binary variables . So . I mean the other thing you could do is {vocalsound} boot trying to {disfmarker} to uh get those binary variables and take the continuous variables from {vocalsound} uhthe uh {vocalsound} uh the data itself there , but I {disfmarker} I 'm not sure {disfmarker}PhD B: Could you cluster the {disfmarker} just do some kind of clustering ?Professor A: Guess you could , yeah .PhD B: Binthem up into different categories and {disfmarker}Professor A: Yeah . So anyway that 's {disfmarker} that 's uh {disfmarker} that 's another whole direction that cou could be looked at . Um . {vocalsound} Um .{vocalsound} I mean in general it 's gonna be {disfmarker} for new data that you look at , it 's gonna be hidden variable because we 're not gonna get everybody sitting in these meetings to {vocalsound} wear the"}
{"doc_id":"doc_163","qid":"","text":"Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um almost , there's one more thing I have to get out of the {disfmarker} I have to make sure that this attachment will open .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Ikeep forgetting whether I've done this . {gap} .Project Manager: Ah-ha . Okay . We'll open that when the time is right . In the meantime {disfmarker} Closing things down , okay . Let's see what this thing does . Doesit come up together or disappear one of them or what ? Ah , we came up together , we're good . Okay . Are we ready to start ? Okay . It's now quarter of four . This is a f another forty minute one so it will end at fourtwenty five . Okay . Right . Our agenda is , as before , for me to open the meeting , for us to go over the previous minutes , then for the two of you to present your prototype and for you to g um Sarah present theevaluation criteria . We then have a finance aspect , which is a spreadsheet , an Excel spreadsheet . And I know what you're all thinking of , oh my , um because we're only given a forty minute time period to get it all in, including the production evaluation . So we're going to make a very fast track . Okay . Um and as you can see that's what we do next on this thing . So the first thing I have to do is close this so that I can get to{disfmarker} Where is it ? {vocalsound}Marketing: Red .Project Manager: I need to open mine . Not the agenda .Marketing: Agenda three .Project Manager: No that th I want the minutes from the previous{disfmarker} minutes .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: That should be there , minutes . Yeah . Okay . Uh from meeting three , is it alright with you if I don't switch it to show , just use it as is ? 'Cause this way I canmore easily flip it . Okay , um obviously all of us were here for the last meeting , we reviewed the previous minutes before that , um each of you made your presentations . {vocalsound} Um we discussed the variouspossibilities based on what was presented in those presentations . The market trend of fruit and veg , mm spongy , uh fancy and elegant more than technologically innovative and that more than easy . Um we decidedchip on print would be used . Um we would use plastic with a rubber casing , I think was the consensus , powered by kinetic energy . There was no decision made on the curvatures or double curvature or straight . Umperhaps the prototype will give us an inkling of that . Um looking like a scroll , but it's really a push button technology , excuse my spelling um that was actually in use , that is uh behind the scenes is push button whichwe uh according to Kate have a very good uh grasp on doing that in production . Um we decided that separate fashionable covers covering your fruit and veg might be a separate product that could be suggested tomanagement . Um and as suggested um yellow with black buttons with the company logo , a slogan and image might be a good idea based on the requirements that have been provided to us . Um we did have a fewproduction issues and coordination of the various bits and we had some conflict of ideas and cost constraints and we ran out of time . Um we had to follow that up and prepare for the last one . And uh we closed as it ranout of time . Is that a fair presentation of what happened ?Industrial Designer: Yep .User Interface: Yes .Project Manager: Okay , back to this meeting . Um we're down to the prototype presentation .IndustrialDesigner: Ta-da .User Interface: Alright .Project Manager: Over to you .Industrial Designer: Right .User Interface: Well .Project Manager: Ooh , two .User Interface: Yeah , well you see , each made one , we didn't haveenough yellow dough .Project Manager: Ah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: This is the one that I made .Project Manager: Uh-huh .User Interface: It is uh curved , easy to hold , hand-held , nice andsmall with big easy buttons . This is like a scroll , but they are push buttons and they enter {disfmarker} takes you into the different menus . Of course we need someone who's experienced with the television {gap} . Imean this is the infrared thing that's gonna zap at the television . Uh I'm not quite sure how to make that , but I'm sure it will work . Uh this is on off switch , 'cause I think we do need that , and I think it gives it a nicebalance .Project Manager: 'Kay .User Interface: And it's gonna have the logo imprinted on it uh in there .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Um as for what it's actually made of {disfmarker} well the function ofthese buttons is up , down , left and right {vocalsound} in the different menus .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Uh position , I presume that just means right right on it , easy to see . The main feature of it isjust a simple design , simple , lack of uh buttons all over the place . Right ? {vocalsound} Form curved , kind of smooth , hand-held , makes it feel nice to hold . Uh material , I think Kate's gonna tackle that quite a bit ,but I think we have two different options , because we did make a another one , which wa uh is in the shape of banana , it's just {disfmarker} if you can imagine this as yellow with black buttons , like just like this but inthe shape of a banana ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .User Interface: which is also nice and easy to hold and feels good and has a similar sort of scroll push button technology , just a slightly different design.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Also with on off switch and infrared {disfmarker} {vocalsound} uh I had envisioned it in hard smooth plastic . So like uh {disfmarker} well , I dunno , what's it like ? Iguess like an existing remote control , but molded and smooth . Whereas otherwise we'd thought , like with this one {disfmarker} or mix and match , just we were gonna see what you thought , the {disfmarker} uh amore spongy rubber cover with spongy buttons . So we have the two options we can follow , either the smooth hard plastic or the spongy rubber , depending on cost restraints . And what we well , what conclusion wereach when we discuss it . {vocalsound} Uh material {disfmarker} yeah , that's what I have to say about material . Can I scroll down on there and see what else {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .UserInterface: Well colour , I think {disfmarker} I definitely have a preference towards bright yellow with black buttons , because that's the company colours , but if anybody's got any other suggestions , I'm quite willing toconsider them as well . {vocalsound} So , it just depends what you think about these ideas and if I'm {disfmarker} yeah , maybe , Kate , you better say what you think about them .Industrial Designer: Um well I don'thave very much to add . Um the the case {disfmarker} oops , that's the uh on off button just come off our prototype .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: The the case can be either um spongy rubber orhard plastic . We're not absolutely sure about a combination of the two , but it can be either of those . We have the technology to do that . Um and as for the the actual components um , uh Steph just said this is a{disfmarker} quite a cheap device to manufacture . We have simple rubber push buttons um which provide all the functionality we need . Um the um {vocalsound} the diode that actually does the um infrared is at theend , it's the stalk of the banana , or it's just the thing at the end of this version . Um so that's for material . Colour , well uh Steph's the expert on colour . Um we we don't have any particular restrictions on that . Yeah ,I think that's all we've got to say really .User Interface: I thin as for as for the fruit or organic theme , I guess this one is obviously fruit shaped .Industrial Designer: A banana .User Interface: This one has n banana ,yeah . This one has no obvious connections to fruit , but because it's round and molded , it kinda makes you think sort of organic , touchy-feely , kiddie , it's more like {disfmarker} yeah , you'd expect it to be like achild's sorta toy remote control instead of a real one , which I quite like that sort of image . 'Cause it's very big and chunky and child-friendly andIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Would you care to examine theprototypes , see how they feel in the hand ?User Interface: {vocalsound} Hold them , you see , you know . Curvature , is it to your liking ?Project Manager: Oh I see , the on-off's in the back .Industrial Designer: Yes ,that's so that your index finger automatically goes straight to it .User Interface: {vocalsound} If you don't wanna tire out your thumbs after all .Project Manager: And then you can use your thumb .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: And it was partly we thought the design looked better ,User Interface: Yeah . {gap}Project Manager: I could see this thing , unless it's reinforced , having a problem with the you know{disfmarker}User Interface: Breaking ,Project Manager: yeah .User Interface: oh right . {vocalsound} Well you see , that's why hard plastic would be quite a good thing for it , because then it'd just be rigid .Marketing:I like the fact that on both of them the keys play such a prominent role .Project Manager: Hmm .User Interface: Yeah , {gap} we really like we really like that design ,Marketing: It's really kind of a {disfmarker}UserInterface: I mean it looks just like a logo , that arrangement of the keys . Like a c like a compass point , you know ,Marketing: Mm-hmm mm-hmm .User Interface: just up , down , left and right , and we think we couldmake that quite a good feature . And it's like the the iPod scroll wheel , {vocalsound} but better .Marketing: Yeah . But it's also like texting ,User Interface: Yeah . Yeah , yeah ,Marketing: you don't{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Hmm .User Interface: I mean it {disfmarker} that's what it makes me think of , mobile phones ,Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: I was try Iwas thinking , moving your thumb like this , what does that remind me of ?Industrial Designer: And it's a very simple design ,Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: It's texting .Industrial Designer: there's not a lot to wrong ,the components are cheap to make .Marketing: It's also in terms of um being lost it's it's quite {disfmarker} it looks quite different .User Interface: Hmm .Marketing: You know , I I d I have several {disfmarker} fourremotes , and they all look the same until you get up close and you have to {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: you know , this is really identifiable .User Interface: {vocalsound} I mean the thing is we doneed to develop our technology of {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I mean actually how to program the menus and what sort of , you know , text box is gonna appear at the bottom of the screen ,Marketing: Mm-hmm .Mm-hmm .User Interface: but we do definitely think that it's a viable option .Project Manager: Okay . The next item is evaluation .Marketing: No , okay .Project Manager: Uh if that's {disfmarker} if you're finished .UserInterface: {vocalsound} Uh yeah , we're finished .Marketing: Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Marketing: shall I take your uh power ?Project Manager: Oh sorry .Marketing: Oh .Project Manager:{vocalsound} Try again .Marketing: Okay . This is going to be a heavily interactive evaluation , and the method here is to evaluate the new remote control in terms of the user requirements and the hot trendsintroduced by the marketing department . So , this means we're going to go over the priorities that were raised by uh the consumers a as well as incorporate all of our insight into this uh evaluation exercise . So I'mgoing to go and use the whiteboard , and I've made a list of criteria to look at , and so I'm gonna I'm gonna leave this up as the last thing , but for the evaluation it's going to be one is true and seven is false , goingover these different criteria , so one true seven false and I'm gonna now use the um the board . Okay . So um fancy , technologically innovative , easy to use , trendy , buttons , excess buttons , good buttons , ugly ,sellable , and other . And in fact I hope that uh you all introduce some additional terms , because these are things that um have been brought up , some of them seem rather close ,User Interface: Yeah , what aboutprice , is that gonna go on there as well ? Price of materials .Marketing: like they overlap . Mm , yeah , price .Project Manager: Hmm .Marketing: We'll put price up at the top .User Interface: {vocalsound} Not that weactually know anything about it ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: but we can we can pretend .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well we will soon , unfortunately .Marketing: Um Okay , so{disfmarker}Project Manager: Come on .Marketing: Did you say {gap} ?Project Manager: No , {gap} .Marketing: Uh okay , so wha how do we feel in terms of is this fancy ?User Interface: It depends what what youmean by fancy really , 'cause when I think of fancy , I think of it's got lots of extra sort of fripperies and , you know , like baroque curliness and {disfmarker} whichMarketing: {vocalsound} Mm-hmm .User Interface: I'dcall these quite uh minimalist ,Industrial Designer: Yes , a plain , simple , clean design .User Interface: simple and plain , but I mean I do see what {disfmarker} {vocalsound} it is heavily reliant on appearance insteadof pure functionality ,Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: so in that respect it is quite fancy .Marketing: {vocalsound} I {disfmarker} yeah , so in that respect {disfmarker} I think we'll go with that respect .UserInterface: I think just maybe we need a different word other than fancy , I'd say maybe aesthetic .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well we have got s trendy further down ,Project Manager: Elegant.Industrial Designer: but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Elegant .Marketing: Elegant .Industrial Designer: Elegant , I don't know if I'd call them elegant .Marketing: Yeah , no these aren't the exact terms that the um{disfmarker}User Interface: {gap} like stylish or aesthetic .Industrial Designer: Stylish , yeah .Marketing: Yeah . Elegant . We're gon let's use elegant , although the the the people , the word on the street is is{vocalsound} {disfmarker}User Interface: Fancy .Marketing: Yeah . {vocalsound} N that {disfmarker} umUser Interface: Did you just break the pen ?Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: yeah uh {disfmarker}the uh {disfmarker} is fancy . So let's let's take it to the next level .User Interface: Well d we'll just call it fancy then .Marketing: Well okay , so in terms of elegant , fancy . we'll call it E_F_ um , do we do we think thatperhaps {disfmarker} and maybe we should say the yellow ? Should we go with the yellow in terms of {disfmarker} I think that's a really superior {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah , I think we n we need to{disfmarker}Marketing: they're both {disfmarker}User Interface: they're both yellow with black buttons , it's just that we didn't have any more dough to represent uh that ,Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Mm .UserInterface: but if you can just imagine banana shape with these bits as black .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: So what we re really need to decide is whether we want the actual banana shape or just a a purely blob orsome sort of abstraction in between the twoMarketing: Yeah .User Interface: that isn't {disfmarker} that is more curved , like a banana , but that isn't actually recognisable as a banana , you know , with the groovesand the stalk and stuff ,Marketing: As a banana .User Interface: so .Marketing: I think that many of us are abstract enough to look at the yellow one and say we'll call it the banana .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing:And of the two I really like I m I like the banana ,Project Manager: The chunk .Marketing: but I I do like the chunk .User Interface: So that's maybe not something we have to decide just right now , is it .Marketing: No,User Interface: Just somewhere a long the scale of in between these two .Marketing: but I mean in terms {disfmarker} we have to evaluate one of them . Unless {disfmarker} do you guys wanna evaluate both ?ProjectManager: I think between the two , somewhere between the two is true .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah , I'd {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's more true than false , about a two .Marketing: Okay . So we saytrue . {vocalsound} technologically innovative .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I d I don't think that's what we're aiming at with this concept .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: I think we're usingsimple components that are gonna be robust but not particularly innovative .Marketing: So we'll say {disfmarker} we'll say uh false . Easy to use .Industrial Designer: Very .User Interface: Yes .Marketing: {vocalsound}One ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: is that inappropriate ?Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Okay . Oh , pardon me . UmProject Manager: Trendy .User Interface: Oh yes .Marketing: trendy , s{vocalsound} and I say specifically spongy fruity .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Well , maybe only a two or a three then , 'cause it's no we still haven't decided about specific sponginess or specific{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: We have the worry about how robust it will be if it's it's curved as a banana but spongy .Project Manager: Hmm .Industrial Designer: I think {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah , I don'treally think that's gonna work ,Industrial Designer: yeah .User Interface: but {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay , so two ? UmIndustrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Excess buttons .Marketing: are thereexcess buttons ?Project Manager: No .Industrial Designer: No .User Interface: No .Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} That is false .Industrial Designer: So that's false . {vocalsound}Marketing: Um {vocalsound}good , well designed buttons , intuitive buttons .Project Manager: Better , more intuitive buttons , yes .Marketing: True . Ugly .Industrial Designer: No .User Interface: No . {vocalsound}Project Manager: No .Marketing:People don't respond well to ugly . Sellable , uh quirky , you know , something people {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah , I think they're different , aren't they ?User Interface: Well it is quite it is quite quirky I think.Marketing: like oh ,Project Manager: I like it .Marketing: yeah . Yeah , I do too .User Interface: It could be quite a good brand , like a good little object .Marketing: Oh yeah . And I was I was thinking of other things umin terms of uh could we say it's cost saving ? With the {disfmarker}User Interface: Oh , we also need tho think about the energy . Is it the kinetic energy ?Marketing: Yeah , with the energy .Industrial Designer: Mm .{vocalsound}User Interface: If it's {disfmarker} it is gonna be environmentally friendly with the kinetic energy .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: It is going to be kinetic ?Industrial Designer: Yeah .ProjectManager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: we'll c we'll say it's a cost saving enviro . Yeah , Uh so yes .User Interface: Yeah , but we haven't completely developed that side of it yet , so we're not completely sure about that,Marketing: Well {vocalsound}User Interface: but yeah .Marketing: you're still in the Play-Doh stage .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Anything else ? Including price , do you have any idea about price or other features?Industrial Designer: Well I think our instinct is that it should be pretty cheap to develop . We haven't got a lot of expensive components in there .Project Manager: Yes , the instinct says true .Marketing: Okay . So trueone or should I go to two or three ?Industrial Designer: I'd put it at one I think , but {disfmarker} I dunno , what do you {disfmarker}User Interface: I would say maybe a two ,Marketing: Okay .User Interface: 'causewe still {disfmarker} we need to uh get somebody in who is good with the programming for the menus and things .Industrial Designer: Yeah , true ,User Interface: I mean it's not just like {disfmarker} I mean it's notlike ev you know , on a normal chunky remote every button res I mean means something different ,Project Manager: Yeah , that's not a cheap thing to get .Industrial Designer: it might be the {disfmarker} yeah , yeah, true . True .User Interface: whereas this one has only got the four buttons and they all {disfmarker} they mean everything , depending on what menu you're in .Project Manager: Hmm .Industrial Designer: Yeah ,that's a good point .User Interface: {gap} uh we need somebody to develop that .Marketing: Um other ? Anything else you guys can thing of ? And I'm gonna actually change a couple of these so then I'm gonna{disfmarker} instead of ugly I'm gonna say it's attractive and then make that true , so that {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: 'cause I have to do an average . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound} Right .Marketing: And then um excess buttons .User Interface: Just putting no excess buttons .Marketing: Exactly . Wow we're doing really well . Yeah , be you know ,User Interface: As for{disfmarker}Marketing: so it doesn't ruin the polarity .User Interface: see if we're technologically innovative , I'd say it is quite innovative , because there aren't really many that have this menu idea instead of all the"}
{"doc_id":"doc_164","qid":"","text":"User Interface: Here we go again .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} My mouse is not working anymore .User Interface: {vocalsound} Oh .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} He's uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Oh .UserInterface: Okay .Industrial Designer: when I put it in , is is going to beep beep beep .Marketing: Oh , I got a nice little screen here over here .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I got like this bigblack border uh on every side .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Mm , okay .Project Manager: Everybody ready ?Marketing: {vocalsound} I'll I'll fix it .User Interface: Yeah , it'sokay .Project Manager: Welcome at the functional design meeting , again presented by Maarten .Marketing: Yeah , whatever .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh this is theagenda , the opening . Uh , we've got three presentations . And I'm gonna show you some of the new projects requirements that were sent to me . And we're gonna make a decision on the remote control functions . Wehave uh forty minutes .Marketing: Yes .Project Manager: Oh , well this is the {vocalsound} the closing already .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So uh {disfmarker} well we start off with the th the firstpresentation then . Uh , I think um in uh {disfmarker} we have to do it in uh in right order .User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: Maybe the {disfmarker}Marketing: I don't know what the right order is . So{disfmarker}Project Manager: Well , it {disfmarker}User Interface: No .Industrial Designer: Huh .Project Manager: Oh that . It won't {disfmarker} doesn't {disfmarker} Maybe we should start with the the technicalfunctions .Industrial Designer: Okay ,Project Manager: Yeah ?Industrial Designer: how can I get this on the whiteboard ?Project Manager: Well it's you dumped the file in the uh in the sh in the project document folder.User Interface: In project .Industrial Designer: Okay , I've done that .Project Manager: You've already done that ?User Interface: No can that open .Industrial Designer: Yes .Project Manager: Well let's close this one .We'll just uh open a new one .User Interface: Open it there .Project Manager: Uh , well . Yes . Uh-oh . New thing . Oh yeah , uh I have to say something . Uh , due to some uh technical problems I haven't uh digitizedthe last uh the meeting minutes . But I'll uh make sure that uh happens next time .Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Okay . {vocalsound} About the get {disfmarker}Project Manager: And I'll get this one uh indigital uh form too .Industrial Designer: 'Kay , we're going to um uh talk about working design . Um , the method of the remote control is uh electrical energy , it activates a chip uh in the remote . It's an electricalcircuit which compose uh messages in the form of uh uh infrared signals to control the television . Mm , it's a nowadays very uh known , a known uh uh technology . Um , the known technology can make a cost very low. Uh , it's a wild uh {disfmarker} a wide sale uh of uh remote controls in the world . And and the components are very uh very cheap . Um , Uh , diodes , uh bat batteries and uh uh LED lights , they're needed andthey're uh everywhere available . Uh , again , it's a fair price . It's a common uh technology uh , like I told um {disfmarker} Uh , the circuit board , it's the most um important uh um part of the remote control . Uh , wecan use for that uh fibreglass with copper wires , it's {disfmarker} it is uh {disfmarker} can be made as fast as printing paper . It's uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} it's all very uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: Yeah , they're making it uh all the time . Uh ,Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: and it's not uh very specialised uh technology . {vocalsound} I haven't come to here , but um I've got uhsome uh images of uh remote controls . They were not uh very uh trendy or just uh just a remote control like everyone knows . So I don't know uh why I should put it here . Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}ProjectManager: {vocalsound} Okay . But it's the technical side of the remote control .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yes , but uh I uh haven't made it because uh of the time .Project Manager: Oh . Okay .Well , we'll we'll have to skip that part then .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} What ?User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: But you don't think it's a problem um to design uh the technical part of the remote control ?It's gonna be easy ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} No . Yes .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: But nothing restricted for user interface ?Project Manager: Yeah . MUser Interface: With technical{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Um , no , it's uh it's just a part of uh a known technology , yeah .User Interface: I don't know .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: 'Kay .Industrial Designer: Remote control isnothing special nowadays .Project Manager: R regardless of what type of functions we want to implement . Doesn't really matter .User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: Um {disfmarker}User Interface: But I kind ofuh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I don't think so ,Project Manager: Okay . Yeah , {gap} okay .Industrial Designer: because of the {disfmarker} all the televisions uh {disfmarker} there are a few {disfmarker}maybe a couple of televisions with the new functions ,User Interface: Yes . Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: but is it useful to put them on a on a standard uh remote ?Project Manager: Well ,we'll see . We'll see later on .User Interface: Well , the technical functions . Um , well I don't know if you got the same uh pictures as I got ,Project Manager: No .User Interface: but uh I got these two ,IndustrialDesigner: No .User Interface: and I think they're {disfmarker} we have to focus uh on uh the uh one hand the expert view or the novice user . {vocalsound} th I think it's it's very much uh depending on the userrequirements , I don't s uh know who's doing tProject Manager: Well , uh will there be some uh user requirements later on ? {vocalsound} The ones I {disfmarker} I've uh received from the account manager .UserInterface: Yeah , but it {disfmarker} I think that's very important to watch uh what kind of functions there we want to uh put in a remote control .Project Manager: Yeah . Well , we'll keep this in mind , and then discussit later on .User Interface: Yeah , well y we can put functions in it when uh {disfmarker} yeah , when we uh get the user requirements uh and we can update it .Project Manager: Uh-huh . Okay , but this real this uh bigd uh distinction between this type of remote . {gap} we should we should choose one uh {disfmarker} we should not compromise but uh really choose for uh expert viewer or novice vMarketing: Yes , I agree . Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah ? Well , what {disfmarker} that's what you want {disfmarker} trying to say .User Interface: Well , yeah w if you want try a a a huge market , if you want to reach a huge market , uh like elderlypeople and {disfmarker} we have to choose for novice user .Project Manager: Okay . Okay .User Interface: But I don't know . It's it's really um depending on how how how far the the the remote controls are already inn um in use .Project Manager: Yeah , well {vocalsound} some of these {disfmarker} Uh , yeah . Well , some of that will {disfmarker} Yeah , but i but it will be more clear when we come to the uh u uh some of the newrequirements .User Interface: Yeah , probably , yeah .Marketing: Yes .Project Manager: So {disfmarker}User Interface: Uh well , there are l at least uh basic functions , uh like just th the channels uh one till nine , uhon and off switch , which must be clear with a red button or something like that . Um , most standard uh have volume , of course , and a mute function , and , of course , the next and previous channel . I think that'sjust basic what we need .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: And from that on we can {gap} user requirements what we need more . Uh {disfmarker} Yeah , I just um um I thought Joost was looking at thetrendy {disfmarker} the trends in the markets , and I don't know if there uh are any um {disfmarker} uh if you put more functions , more buttons , maybe it's com becoming less trendy or something like that.Marketing: Yes .User Interface: M you can just {vocalsound} you can k {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I haven't really found a conclusion like that .User Interface: you can keep it in mind that .Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: I don't know . Uh , I th I thought the the {disfmarker} with less buttons you can make a more trendier uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Design .User Interface: yeah , more trendier design , I think . I think.Marketing: Sounds interesting .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah ?Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh , well , that's all I have to say , I think .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Yeah ,that was it .Marketing: {vocalsound} Alright .Project Manager: Well , then the Marketing expert can uh tell us something about the current market .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yes .User Interface: {gap} .Marketing: Yeah. It's alright . Um {disfmarker} Alright , I've done some research for functional requirements . Um {disfmarker} yes . The working method um {vocalsound} there were hundred uh uh w h one hundred people , uh howdo you say uh , f watched using remote controls in the usability lab and they also uh filled out a questionnaire uh with a few questions . Uh , I've lined them up here . Uh , ask whether um common remote control looksgood or not , about willingness to spend money on remote control , about zapping behaviour , and uh and stuff like that . I uh have found some interesting things . We do we do got a market . Um , {vocalsound} threeout of four people claim m uh to find remote controls ugly . So if we make a trendy design , we sure have seventy fi seventy five percent of the market , which you can reach . Um , three out of four users uh zaps a lot ,as I uh quoted here from the uh results . {vocalsound} Zap buttons are used one hundred and sixty eight times per hour . That's quite a lot . Um , {vocalsound} relevant options are , of course , power buttons .Although , only used once per hour . Uh , channel selection , volume and buttons for text , and the more um , yeah , other functions , like audio settings , video settings , sound settings are not said to be very importantand uh very much used . Furthermore , fifty percent says uh they only use ten percent of the buttons on a remote control . That doesn't say we got {disfmarker} we can leave ninety percent off . But it sure um says weshouldn't make it too uh complicated . Fifty percent also claims uh to have lost a remote control very often in the room . And um {vocalsound} an important thing here , the most important customers uh , which is overseventy percent of our market , is in the age range of thirty six to sixty five years old . And uh elderly people , our market , are less interested in uh nice features , but more willingly to spend more money on remotecontrols . So , {vocalsound} what I was thinking {disfmarker} oh , wrong side . We shouldn't implement too much features on uh on our remote control , because elderly people will get th lost . Group features for ahigher usability , uh what I was claiming in the previous meeting . Um , all the settings , about audio settings , video settings and channel settings , which are not very often used , we could group them uh on onebutton and make them accessible uh in one menu button or whatever , because they are used very rarely and well , it uh {disfmarker} there are a lot of options there , so we can really make uh {disfmarker} yeah ,how do you say , we can spare at buttons over there .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound} And um , if you want to implement V_C_R_ and D_V_D_ options , group them in the button , not too uh{disfmarker} {vocalsound} Yeah . Small buttons , so they won't be very um , how do you say {disfmarker}Project Manager: Visually presents .Marketing: Yes , won't be very present , thank you . And a trendy look ,well uh , although seventy percent of the market is uh {disfmarker} consists of elderly people uh who don't really care for trendy looks or whatever , I guess it can do no harm to make it trendy for the other thirtypercent . That was kind of what I found .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay .Project Manager: Well , then we {disfmarker} I'm gonna show you some of the new projectrequirements and then we gonna discuss on uh what features we find important .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yes .Project Manager: Uh , well some of the uh new requirements {vocalsound} make some of your findingsquite uh irrelevant , I think .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Because um uh s decided to put {disfmarker} They have decide to put two additional requirements forward . Well , now I see four .Marketing: Two? {vocalsound}Project Manager: That's kinda strange . Well , they say tele teletext becomes outdated since the popularity of the internet . Well , I think that may be so , but well , we can't just leave the teletext buttonoff .User Interface: Well {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's impossible , I think .User Interface: No way .Marketing: {vocalsound} No uh , I agree , I agree .Project Manager: So the compromise we could make is just tomake one teletext button , you know , like on and off , and don't make a lot of special {disfmarker} put a lot of special features on it to make it transparent or {disfmarker}Marketing: Not too much , no .ProjectManager: You know , it's just you want you want to be able to make use of teletext , but not to play with it that much .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: So we have to think of that . The remote control should only beused for television . Otherwise , the project becomes more complex , which endangers the time t t ma uh the time to market . So maybe we should leave all D_V_D_ and V_C_R_ related features off completely .UserInterface: Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay .Project Manager: I don't know . I think that uh that's what they're trying to say .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh , our current customers are within the agegroup of forty plus . New products should reach a new market with customers that are younger than forty . So you uh talked about the elderly who were willing to spend more on a remote control and who wereinterested .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: But , well , they're not relevant because we are aiming at a younger {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} I don't really agree actually , to be honest . It's a verysmall market which we will approach then if we uh want to reach customers younger than forty . It's only like thirty percent of the total market .Project Manager: Yeah , but it is {disfmarker} it's is a dif it's a fact thatthe th th that bigger market you're talking about , we already cover that .Marketing: Mayb yeah ?Project Manager: Our company already sells remote control to the older people , but we we also want , {vocalsound}you know , a new customer group . That's the one we haven't covered yet . So I think that's what the problem is . We haven't got remote controls for uh {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay .Project Manager:Well I think , yeah .Marketing: Maybe maybe we can compromise a little bit .Project Manager: Yeah , I think so . Maybe if it's {disfmarker}Marketing: Not too much then , bu alright .Project Manager: no no , but I thinkwe have to just keep in mind what the older age group wants . So maybe we can make a remote control that's primarily interesting for the younger group , but isn't that bad for an older person either .Marketing: Yes.Project Manager: Uh , our corporate image sh should stay recognisable in our products . Our product's corporate colour and slogan must be implemented in the new design . Okay , {vocalsound} something else nice toknow .User Interface: But what's our slogan ?Project Manager: Sorry ? Yeah , {vocalsound} you will have to look that up . {vocalsound}User Interface: The slogan uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound} Yeah , I'll have a look .Project Manager: {vocalsound} I think it's something about the {disfmarker}User Interface: Puts fashion in electronics . {vocalsound}Marketing: We put the fashion in electronics.Project Manager: Oh , okay . {vocalsound} I thought it w might be , let's make things better or something , but {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} Sense simplicity . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Sense and simplicity . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay well , {vocalsound} let's go back to the the agenda . So we've now had to {disfmarker} the three presentations . We know about the new projectrequirements . That means we can uh well d yeah , discuss on the remote control functions . Well , if I can uh make a start , I think it's becoming more clear what kind of remote control it's gonna be , and I alreadytalked about the {disfmarker} maybe you have a f familiar with the rem remote control that has the the can opener underneath it . I think we're we're looking for some {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}ProjectManager: Yeah , we we're looking for a really simple remote control with only basic T_V_ functions . Y well , that {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Well , to be honest , if um our uh aim group is uh till forty ,not older than forty , maybe that's not very uh {disfmarker} yeah , we don't really need to have a simple remote control .Project Manager: Yeah . Yeah .Marketing: I think we can implement more functions then ,because um {vocalsound} basically uh the younger people are more able to adapt to new technologyUser Interface: Yeah , but whaProject Manager: Yeah , yeah .Marketing: and therefore will be a more{disfmarker}Project Manager: M yeah , that's why um well a lot of um the use the requirements the the account manager sent me , I think they are are c are contradicting each other ,User Interface: But{disfmarker}Project Manager: because they want a simpler design , and no uh other uh s functions than just T_V_ , but they s do aim at a younger {disfmarker}Marketing: Yes . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well ,maUser Interface: Yeah , but you sai you said that that a lot of functions aren't used .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: So why should j we put this function in ?Marketing: {vocalsound} Well , I think {disfmarker}UserInterface: I think more {disfmarker} I think uh people {disfmarker} younger people are more looking for just a trendy look than uh more functions .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: But I think uh you{disfmarker} we can make some discuss uh distinctions in uh what kin in the , know , th th in functions you have {disfmarker} Y Well you have different kind of uh equipment in your room , like a t T_V_ and a D_V_D_player .Marketing: Yes .Project Manager: You can uh , know , you {gap} you can {vocalsound} make very d you can put very detailed functions regarding the T_V_ set on your remote control uh with the with uh the ,you know , audio settings and uh v uh screen settings . We don't want that . I think that was {disfmarker} that became clear . We don't want . But w maybe we should put some func uh , I know that the younger peoplewill most likely have a D_V_D_ player they want to , you know , they want to uhMarketing: Yeah , control .User Interface: Yeah , but uh you said {disfmarker}Project Manager: control , remotely .User Interface: Yeah ,d yeah , but th the functions are not in the remote control we're making .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: No , yeah , th th the user requirements of the the {disfmarker} The new project requirements told usnot to {disfmarker}User Interface: It's n Yeah .Project Manager: But maybe w Yeah . I think we maybe should {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah , well we should uh put some functions for other{disfmarker} maybe for other equipment on it . But just the basic functions . Maybe like rewind and wind ,Marketing: {gap}Project Manager: or n what d what do you guys think ?Industrial Designer: But you can putthem under the same button .Marketing: Not much more than that .Project Manager: Yeah , if {disfmarker} as far as possible .Marketing: Yep . Or we can u u we could put 'em behind the flip-flap or whatever .ProjectManager: But what do you think ?Marketing: So tProject Manager: Do th should we implement features that uh uh or functions that {disfmarker} to control other devices ?User Interface: No .Project Manager: No , youdon't think so ?Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: No , new requirements say no .Project Manager: Yeah , the new requirements say so .User Interface: So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: But you can put a playand stop and and rewind .Project Manager: Well , maybe it's {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: maybe there there there is something th m most of the time these functions don't support the"}
{"doc_id":"doc_165","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Right , so start of the first meeting .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh . Right , so agenda of the first meeting . Where we uh {disfmarker} We have twenty five minutes for thismeeting .Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: We uh are to get acquainted . So does everyone want to say who they are ? {gap} that seem sensible ?Marketing: Yeah . I'm Robin . I'm the Marketing Manager.User Interface: I'm Louisa . I'm the User Interface Designer .Industrial Designer: I'm Nick . I am the Industrial Designer .Project Manager: And I'm Alastair and I'm the project leader . {vocalsound} Alright okay , sotool training . Um . {vocalsound} Project plan . So does anyone have any uh thoughts as to the tool training that uh is required ?Industrial Designer: Tool trainingUser Interface: I'm not exactly sure what you mean bytool training .Project Manager: Neither am I {gap} .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh I see , so we shouldn't really be {disfmarker} Oh right okay , so . So we have the projectteam , which is to um {vocalsound} basically to come up with a new r remote control device .Industrial Designer: {gap}Project Manager: Uh we have uh {disfmarker} the starting base was the original {vocalsound}which has been in existence now for a period of time . And uh our idea is to uh to make the new remote control device uh more user friendly than the previous one , and to {vocalsound} to be trendier , to be with it ,and therefore to uh to get a bigger market share and bigger audience .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: So um {vocalsound} method of doing this is uh split up as you can see into uh{vocalsound} the functional design , the conceptional design , and the detailed design . So um {vocalsound} in each of these uh phases we'll uh basically be handing over to yourselves , the designers of this uh thisdevice .Industrial Designer: Yes .Project Manager: And uh having uh meetings so that we can uh during the course of the day um come up with a better better inst implement than we had before . And therefore umhave a successful uh conclusion to the day . Um and you'll be doing uh various designs uh throughout the day to meet this end .Marketing: Mm-hmm , okay .Project Manager: So we've got tool training . Try outwhiteboard . Uh . {vocalsound} So we will um .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Right so everyone's to uh supposedly uh draw their favourite animal over on the white board overthere . I guess this is uh make sure the whiteboard works . So uh I don't know who wishes to go first .Industrial Designer: Okay {gap} .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Do you wish to go f Havea first bash at uh whatever .User Interface: I don't mind . {vocalsound}Marketing: I dunno . {vocalsound}User Interface: Um .Project Manager: Ah uh . {vocalsound}User Interface: Let's see .Marketing: {gap}UserInterface: Good job I got pockets today .Project Manager: But now you you uh you'll move out from the microphone and the camera .Marketing: Your microphone's just {disfmarker}Project Manager: I take it that{disfmarker}User Interface: Are we supposed to do this right now , do you think , or ?Project Manager: I would {vocalsound} I would guess so . Or {gap} {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah . I don't know .IndustrialDesigner: You've lost uh your microphone there .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Technical problems .User Interface: Oh . Right here we go .Project Manager: I mean you designers are meant to come up with these sortof things .Industrial Designer: {gap} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: Okay . I think that I would have to say that myfavourite animal is the cat . Little smiley cat there . Um and this would be because they're very independent , uh they're very intelligent , compared to dogs maybe .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}User Interface: Um {vocalsound} and they can be very very affectionate . Some people don't think so but I know very affectionate cats . Um . Um and they can look after themselves .Project Manager:{gap} {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Next . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay , yeah . I'll I'll {disfmarker}User Interface: Shall I rub that out , actually?Project Manager: I don't see as there's any need to . There's plenty of space .Industrial Designer: {gap}Project Manager: I mean whatever . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: We can have have awhole menagerie . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Exactly .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Shall I see if I can get across without just tangling everything . Okay .Project Manager: We've had more time to prepareover this side ,Industrial Designer: There's one .Project Manager: so we've all stuck our bits and pieces in our pockets . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Didn't think of that .User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: 'Kay uhProject Manager: The three pens are underneath .Industrial Designer: pens are over here . I'll try the red pen . Okay . Um .{vocalsound} I'm gonna go for the bear which I'm {gap} be able to draw very well ,Project Manager: {vocalsound} You get marks for artistic impression . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: but I'll have a bash at it.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Uh .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Ooh ooh {gap} I lost it there . I think I've justknocked the microphone . {vocalsound} Um .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So you're just doing the face . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: We'll g then we'll go for a a s smallsmall bear {gap} .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Um {vocalsound} and I like my animal that looksnothing like a bear because um I dunno maybe because there's so many cartoon characters made up after the bear like the jungle book characters and stuff like that .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound} Great . {vocalsound}Marketing: Right . Hello . Um I'm gonna go for the dog , and I'm gonna draw one badly as well . Uh . {gap} looks like it's going to be a dachshund or something .User Interface: That'squite good . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Right . There's my dog . Um {vocalsound} I like dogs because they're very loyal . And they're always happy , so wheneverwhenever you're feeling sort of a bit a bit down or tired , they're always coming up and they're always um quite excited . So um you can always have a lot of fun with a dog . And they're also good for exercise as well .You can sorta get out and they they sorta never get tired . And and when they're tired they're quite cute as well , so . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: Okay , that's why I like dogs .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Right , um . {vocalsound} Well I've not actually had too many pets uh over my uh time 'cause to be honest with you uh {gap} I'mnot too keen on them anyway . Not to worry . So what my daughters have got at the moment is they've got uh a few fish and so hopefully um won't prove too difficult to draw . Uh {vocalsound} {vocalsound}{gap}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: As you can see that my artist artistic work is useless as well .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Anyway um . {vocalsound} And uh one of the best uh thingsabout fish is that they don't really take uh too much looking after because uh with most of the animals if you're going away on holiday or whatever , you've gotta spend money or get a friend or whatever to look afterthem for you . Whereas if you got fish , you just gotta put the food in a a a dripper feed which feeds them over the uh couple of weeks that you're away and uh change the water every couple of months , and buy in afew plants , so . Other than the fact that they keep dying ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: uh fish are uh {vocalsound} are not are are are reasonable pets in that uh they're low maintenance.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Great .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Right . Okay , uh if we're still all with us . Right okay , so . Work has been doneon uh this uh project where by um twenty five Euros is uh the uh expected uh selling price . That information has come from our marketing manager here . {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound} Yeah.Project Manager: So we're looking to sell internationally , not just in Europe . We're looking at um having our production costs limited to uh twelve and an half Euro per unit . And therefore making a profit margin of uh{disfmarker} well not actually a profit margin it's uh {disfmarker} because obviously you're gonna have overheads and various other costs to uh take uh from uh from that to give you your profit margin per unit . Andso depending what the uh the overhead uh costs are will determine uh how many units we're uh looking to sell or projecting to sell at this point in time .Industrial Designer: {gap}Project Manager: So um {disfmarker}Experience with remote control , first ideas . New remote . So I guess we're looking at um having a discussion at this point in time to help uh you um folks design our our new model as it were .Industrial Designer: Yes .{gap}Project Manager: So uh any any thoughts ?Industrial Designer: Um I {gap} with some remote controls the buttons were a little small so they're quite hard to press so maybe we make something with uh easy topress buttons . As that is the main function .Project Manager: Okay , so so basically we're looking for some um {disfmarker} we're looking for a device that is um robust and and therefore uh won't get damaged tooeasily .Industrial Designer: Yes .Project Manager: Um we're looking for a device that is uh {disfmarker} What was the other things you said there ?Industrial Designer: Um sort of easy to use so the buttons areaccessible .Project Manager: Easy to use . Use .Industrial Designer: {gap} is easy to use and see .Project Manager: And see .Industrial Designer: Yes .Project Manager: Okay . Uh .User Interface: Can I just check ?{vocalsound} Is this just a television remote ? Because a lot of um systems are kind of T_V_ video combined now , or T_V_ D_V_D_ combined .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: And one of the most annoyingthings is having like five remotes in the house . So if you've got a combined system , it could be a combined remote .Industrial Designer: {gap}User Interface: Or is it just a television that we're supposed to be doing?Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: Oh I w um basically I'll get back to you on that .Industrial Designer: {gap}Project Manager: But it seems to me sensible ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: 'cause{disfmarker} as you rightly said , there's nothing more annoying than having three or four devices littered about the uh about the room .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: And uh {disfmarker}User Interface:{vocalsound}Project Manager: So a device for for all remotes .Industrial Designer: {gap} Sorry , you go . You go .Marketing: I've Okay . Yeah . Um one of the things um we found from the market research is thatpeople often get confused by the number of buttons on them as well . 'Cause there's quite often lots and lots . And um sometimes uh they sort of {disfmarker} remote controls defeat their own purpose because you'resat in the chair and the remote is somewhere else in the room . So {disfmarker} whereas in the past you'd have to get up to change the channel , now you have to get up to sort of pick up the remote . So so I don't weneed to sort of maybe think about how um we could maybe uh develop a remote control which moves around the room .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Comes to your whistle .{vocalsound}Project Manager: Hmm . {vocalsound}Marketing: That's that's maybe something for the future when you can talk to your television , but {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah .{vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: But is it {disfmarker} in a sense it's r um mutually exclusive . You can't have both the th the one device and then have few buttons on it to{disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: 'cause you want you want simplicity as well , you want any idiot to be able to use it . Whilst at the same time you want , as you rightly said , one remote for all.Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: And so these are probably mutually exclusive optionsMarketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Yes .Project Manager: that uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager:Hmm you could argue that experience of using devices and similar devices as people get more and more used to using remotes , therefore they're more {gap} with handling them ,Industrial Designer: Yeah .ProjectManager: therefore you can make them more complicated as time goes on .Industrial Designer: Maybe we could um have better instructions with the remote . Or are we just doing the design of the remote control itself, or sort of the instructions that would come with it ?Project Manager: {gap} Better instructions .Marketing: Yeah . I mean we've done some research um about sort of you know what the cutting edge sort of hand helddevices are , and a lot of them sort of use you know they're like they're like mini laptops .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: So it's possible that we could devise a system where where you're you're basically sortof holding a a miniature computer which is controlling all your your sort of your television , your stereo , and where {disfmarker} you know if you buy a new thing then it sort of {disfmarker} you can link it to that aswell , maybe .Project Manager: Okay . Um well we've got five minutes before the end of the meeting . So uh we have to uh start winding up . Um is there {disfmarker} Next meeting in thirty minutes .IndustrialDesigner: 'Kay .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: So um {disfmarker} Right , so we've got I_D_ the {disfmarker} Come on , where's my {disfmarker}Marketing: If you just click return it should be okay . It'll get rid ofthe message .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Or not . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: If you hit just hit return and it should get rid of the message .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Oh therewe go .Marketing: Oh you've got {gap} . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: That's what I was looking for . Right . So we've got function {disfmarker} Ohwhat happened to the {disfmarker}User Interface: I think that might be back to the start . Um if you grab the kind of uh slide to the left and pull it down ?Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: {gap} slide four{gap}Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Right . Right . {vocalsound} Sorry about that .Industrial Designer: Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay , so we've got um the working design for I_D_ . ForU_I_D_ the technical functions design . Marketing , the user requirement specification . Specific instructions will be sent to you by your person by your personal coach . So . Are we all clear what objectives we're lookingto meet in the next thirty minutes ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: And I guess I'll try and write up some minutes of uh this meeting to uh to give it to you for the next meeting .Industrial Designer:Yes .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: 'Kay , yes .User Interface: I'm not exactly clear on what we're designing the rem remote for .Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Is this a mun multi-functional one ordo we decide that ourselves as we go away and work on it ?Industrial Designer: I think you just said at the start it was a television remote control ,Project Manager: Television remote control .Industrial Designer: somaybe we should just stick to that unless we get told otherwise .User Interface: Right .Project Manager: That's true , 'cause during during the course of our day we might make decisions based on information ormeetings that would change {vocalsound} where we're going .Marketing: Okay cool .Project Manager: But at this point in time I think you're right that uh {disfmarker} shall we make it just a T_V_ . Okay ? So we willdepart .Industrial Designer: 'KayProject Manager: {vocalsound} We will stay here and uh and break off . And I'll do minutes and and we'll see you in half and hour .Industrial Designer: Okay , that's great .UserInterface: Okay .Marketing: Okay cheers .Project Manager: Okay . Right s"}
{"doc_id":"doc_166","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Okay , welcome everyone to our next meeting . I'm busy writing and busy leading the meeting , but um I've prepared a little presentation once again um or at least an agenda I think uh the biggestpart of the presentation will be uh on your side . Um we are here at the conceptual design meeting , which is hereby opened . Um once again I will try to uh write some minutes which I just from the previous meeting uhplaced inside our project folder , which was quite some typing . Um today we once again have uh three presentations , if I'm right , and after that we will take a decision on the remote control concepts . And just as thelast time we have forty minutes to accomplish that . Okay , wellIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I'd say let's start with the first presentation .Marketing: 'Kay .Project Manager: Um in the same orderas last time ?Industrial Designer: W sure .User Interface: Mm . Alright .Project Manager: Okay . Well , take it away .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {gap} {vocalsound} Okay uh welcome you all .UserInterface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Components design , um {vocalsound} uh first of all uh I would like to uh uh accommodate some of those uh things I uh uh {disfmarker} elaboratesome of the things I did . I I elaborated on the concept . What should be um uh said about uh the components , uh its properties and what kind of materials should we use to uh to make uh one of those r remotecontrols . Uh well first of all I've uh d subtracted some of the components that is that are used uh are w w um {vocalsound} you know from what uh the remote control's formed . Uh first of all , the case , the case , thesurrounding of the of the the remote control . {vocalsound} I would like to uh give you an idea of uh how I thought about .Marketing: Don't destroy my giraffe .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Giraffe's gone now.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay um the case was is made from rubber , I suppose . There's one of the {disfmarker} because when you use a remote control a lot ofpeople uh will uh will uh drop their remote controlMarketing: Drop it .User Interface: Hmm .Industrial Designer: and they break uh becau the uh titanium was also an option . But uh it's a very expensive material . Uhrubber is , I think , uh the best suitable uh material uh to use uh for our uh for our remote control . Um it's poss it's also possible to uh create fancy colours with rubber . Uh rubber l makes it easy to uh to to{disfmarker} it lets lets itself colour . Uh titanium uh you have to paint it and with that uh it's possible to scratch it or uh yeah make it ugly . Uh rubber uh the total uh piece of rubber that's sor uh that's that's used uhto make the case is uh the same colour , so if you scratch it it's still the same colour , perhaps uh it's a little bit damaged . But it's a very strong material . Um {vocalsound} I h I had an idea single covered uh curved ,sorry , single curved .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Uh so it's t two dimensional . I think it's uh it's best to draw ohUser Interface: {vocalsound} It's a colour . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: green.Marketing: {vocalsound} Bright colour . Fancy colour . Forward .Industrial Designer: Uh {disfmarker} New . Blank . Okay .Marketing: You have to go tIndustrial Designer: Let's make it uh black . Okay . I thought of anidea like this . Oh {gap} that . {vocalsound} Um delete . Blank . Okay . So it also looks nice when it's on your table .User Interface: {gap}Industrial Designer: So you get uh it doesn't lay flat down on the table , but it'sc it's stands .Marketing: Oh it's a side view .Industrial Designer: Side view yes it's side view so uh I I'm not technically good at th three D_ modelling ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: but .Marketing:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Um uh it's just an idea I had so it's uh it's very uh so its also looks nice when it's on the table . Um the graphical user interface and the buttons , uh we also thought about that already .Uh I thought about uh the L_C_D_ touch screen , which is uh is easy to clean too . One of the great uh advantages of the L_C_D_ screen you just use some {gap} or uh another uh cleaning uh uh cl some cleaning stuff.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: And um it should be made of strong plastic and it should be bright . Well I already uh s uh explained some properties of that material and I think uh well we also wealmost concluded about that uh this should uh be uh our uh button component .Marketing: True .Industrial Designer: So uh uh that's all about uh the buttons . Uh the batteries , uh we also thought about that already ,uh will be chargeable with uh uh an option for a mount station so you can uh put the uh {vocalsound} the remote control in a mount station so its charges itself up instead of uh plugging it in or something like that .Questions , {gap} ?User Interface: No . {vocalsound}Marketing: No no no no no . Just looking .Industrial Designer: And they should be long lasting , not uh not be empty uh in about uh two minutes or uh thirtyminutes or forty minutes of use . And next step is the chip uh th the component that's uh makes or transmits the signal to the television . Uh there was an option to use s a rather simple chip but I think uh because uhof our uh highly uh requiring uh requirements , there should be an advanced chip in itUser Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: with uh also the ability to uh facilitate speaker speech recognition uh whichunfortunately is still in a test phase , so uh there should be some more uh investigation on that side . Uh my personal preferences uh I also overheard in the last meeting that there shou we should use uh our ownbusiness colours . That was correct , wasn't it ?Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Okay . I think they are rather boring for um for use with rubber .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well ,business colours I thought it was the the slogan and uh the corporate image , so yeah , it needs colour ,Industrial Designer: Okay they should be m sh they should be in mind ,Project Manager: but I don't think youhave to make the entire thing in the corporate colour . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: wasn't it ? Okay so it d it doesn't says uh to uh have the slogan ?Project Manager: It must be recognisable .Industrial Designer:Okay okay . Well that's possible of course .User Interface: You can put the R_ and R_ . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: We could make a little R_ and R_ {gap} on the top of the machine . Uh so they are {vocalsound}pretty boring , I suggest , because just the availability with rubber to make fantastic colours uh and also in a lot of possible colours , so it's possible to make very uh fancy uh remote controls which peopl uh who peoplein which people will find they're uh interesting . And uh will buy uh {vocalsound} them faster when they look at the same old grey or black uh colours . Uh s as I said uh before rubber is uh is impossible to damageseverely imp instead of uh of course you can break it when you you when you break it in s for example with a pair of scissors or something like that , but i if you drop it it's not uh broken uh right away s instead of usinguh plastic , hard plastic or uh titanium . And I personally liked uh the single curved uh remote control , because it yeah it makes sense .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay . Well that'sall about my uh my findings .User Interface: Alright .Project Manager: Okay , thank you .User Interface: I will go next .Marketing: Mm mm mm . Next .User Interface: {gap}Industrial Designer: {gap}User Interface:Alright soIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: I thought a little bit about the interface . Uh how it should look . And uh {vocalsound} uh we uh determined that will not be no buttons , but only an L_C_D_screen , so I had to uh look on that . And the design is therefore based on what we just uh uh thought of . Uh first there are some new findings and new technology for speech recognition . And this is that uh um uh uhyou you ask you give a question through through the device and it answers you . And they already uh put this in an in a coffee maker . And so that it you say uh good morning , uh coffee maker , and it says t says toyou back good morning Joe or what's your name .Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: This uh and there's an easy way to uh program that uh you say record into the device into the speaker and then you say thequestion and three seconds later you say the answer and then when you say the question it gives you the answer . Um perhaps it's useful ,Industrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: perhaps forbecause people um lose the remote ,Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: they can yell uh remote where are you and {gap} calls or something .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: It's true .User Interface:And perhaps we could uh implement that .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: And then I have to go out of the presentation because I tried to make some kind of a a idea of how it shouldlook likeIndustrial Designer: Oh my God . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: but I can't draw , so uh don't {vocalsound} make too much of it {vocalsound} . I tried to uh the L_C_D_ screen I tried to sort of todraw {gap} . I thought uh at least uh the icon for the volume . I don't know if there is an icon for the program , butIndustrial Designer: Not just a P_ .User Interface: yeah .Marketing: P_ yeah , just a P_ .UserInterface: So uhIndustrial Designer: .. . {gap}User Interface: and then the buttons above and uh belowMarketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: the and the and the mute button also recognisable as an icon . Um.Marketing: Where's where's the button for two {gap} ?User Interface: I forgot that one . {vocalsound} I thought I forgot something ,Industrial Designer: {gap}Marketing: Okay .User Interface: but uh {vocalsound}.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: And uh and uh the numbers , that should be a bit larger I think it's not really on scale and and so forth .Industrial Designer: Ah .Marketing: Doesn't matter .UserInterface: Um an options button . And I thought the the button for teletext apar uh apart because it's not really options , I think . It's uh options is the settings of the remote and of the T_V_ and that kind of uh thing.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Marketing: No .User Interface: So could call it settings or something .Industrial Designer: Yep .User Interface: But this is a bit uh how I thought it . And uh the L_C_D_ uh somewhere onthe remote . Perhaps we could be more curvy the remote perhaps should , so that it's better in your hand or something uh .Industrial Designer: Oh okay ,User Interface: But uh and and uh a microph microphone for thespeech uh recognition if we want to implement that .Industrial Designer: yeah .User Interface: Uh and then uh if you press the op options button , now we have an example of and then you should get the other optionswith what what you could do and that you could do with something like this this .Industrial Designer: Oh yeah , {gap} .User Interface: And uh it's also uh I thought think we discussed uh earlier that uh older peopledon't really want to use uh these extra settings . And older people a also don't really want to use this uh th this kind of option menus . So they want to u use one button and then something happens , and not choosewith uh this kind of uh {disfmarker} And you could put in a an a really s little scrolling device on the side of your uh remote ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: so you could scroll scroll uh across these uhthings .Industrial Designer: Mm . Okay .User Interface: That's an option . And that was my uh finding dinge .Project Manager: Thanks .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay . {vocalsound}ProjectManager: Now our thirdIndustrial Designer: Go Danny , go Danny . {vocalsound}Project Manager: team member with his presentation .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound} Okay , I'm going to tell you something about a trend watching . The trends from the past years , what the people like , what the youngsters like , what the elderly people liked about shapes , colours ,material and stuff . 'Kay . The method I used was {disfmarker} Like I told I watched the trends from the past years about colours , shapes , material they wanted uh from elderly and young people . So we can keep thatin mind for designing f uh the device itself . Findings I made . The most important thing people liked last year was that the remote control should be look look fancy . The second important thing that w should be if inv ininnov innovative , okay , like the L_C_D_ screen that's {vocalsound} quite innovative so that should be great meeting for this . And the third thing is it should be easy to use . I think with only one menu , four button ,channel , volume , it should also be enough for easy to use . The personal preferences for the young people , they liked fruity colours like uh banana yellow , uh strawberry red and stuff .Industrial Designer: Fruity ?{vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Grass green .Industrial Designer: Fruity . {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah . Like that . The round shapes , and soft material m materials like the rubber .Industrial Designer: Mm. Okay .Marketing: It should be soft uh i it should feeling spongy or s Sponge Bob like things .User Interface: {vocalsound} Let's build it into a sponge .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {gap} {vocalsound}Marketing:Th Elderly people like au colours which y are being seen in autumn like um woods um dark brown , red , deep reds and stuff . They liked square shapes with round edges . And hard materials like wood , um titanium .They those kind of materials they liked . This is a bit like the young peoples like the fruity colours , innovative , all the colours you see , the blue , the red , the white , the yellow , that stuff . And then I th I I personallythought the front side of the shape should be something for the youngsters like likeProject Manager: Oh y {vocalsound}Marketing: this or something . It's it's a bit like a banana . And the colour should be yellow , orsomething .Industrial Designer: {gap}Marketing: And for the elderly people just plain old . Because we decided to have two kind of remotes , two designs , or was it two colours ?User Interface: It was one remote , Ithink ,Marketing: Different colours , yeah .User Interface: different colours .Marketing: We should decide whether it's going to be with round shapes . I think like my colleague , you said , is that's e better , or for theelderly people something like like the iPod or something , with round squares . Simple butUser Interface: {gap}Marketing: easy to use .Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: {vocalsound} So that's it .Project Manager:So for the older people , a more traditional uh form .Industrial Designer: Okay .Marketing: That is my {disfmarker} Yeah , like the older o older colours I can maybe {disfmarker}User Interface: You could you could uhchange the colours , that was also the idea . I don't know which shape you should should take ,Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: but .Marketing: {vocalsound} Colours th the elderly people {disfmarker}Project Manager:Yeah , I guess changing colours will be easier than changing uhUser Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Changing just the shape of the uh remote control ?Project Manager: the shape of it .User Interface: Perhaps youcould find something in the middle . Round but square . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah , sProject Manager: {gap}Industrial Designer: round corners , but s but square , yeah .Project Manager: But maybe thenboth groups won't buy it .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh i i if you do it uh uh square , with round corners but a little uh in the middle of it uh i Do youknow what I mean ?Industrial Designer: Yeah I know what you mean , kind of like a {gap} . {vocalsound}User Interface: {gap} wait , like {vocalsound} like this {vocalsound} uh a bit .Industrial Designer: Yeah .UserInterface: So it's a bit square , but it's also a bit uh round .Industrial Designer: Kinda like a beer glass . {vocalsound} Yeah .User Interface: So but then {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I know what you mean .UserInterface: Same sides . {vocalsound} But that's uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: It's also easy to to have {vocalsound} to to put in your hand .User Interface: Yeah but that's also how other remotes are shaped , sothat's uh {disfmarker} But perhaps that's a good thing ,Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: so that's easy to use . People know the {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Will recognise that's as a remote control .UserInterface: Yeah .Marketing: Uh {disfmarker} Look something like that {gap} . Autumn colours like red , brown .Industrial Designer: Uh when I saw your d Oh .Marketing: They liked the wood a lot .Industrial Designer:Huh .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: So maybe we could give it like wooden loo look look or something in that colour .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah , kinda like old cars ,uh {disfmarker}Marketing: And a bit bit old school style renaissance , medieval kind of things .User Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Swords .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Let's put it all together .Marketing: Those kind of {disfmarker} Yeah , those kind of things . So you see the big difference between the young people ? Fresh , exciting.User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: {gap}Marketing: And the old people , old and boring .User Interface: But that's easily to do with the colour , I think .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: So{disfmarker} Sorry ?User Interface: That's easy to do with the colours , I think .Marketing: Yeah I think it's it's easier to do in colour than in shape .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah we think so too.Industrial Designer: Uh .Marketing: Because otherwise we have to {gap} get different shapes , and colour {gap} way easier than yeah the shapes . In material yeah rubber , rubber is , like I said , young people likemore soft materials and spongy onesIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: and the old people like {vocalsound} plain wood .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: So we have to decide ifwe're going to use real hard rubber , or soft rubber . Or something something between that .User Interface: Yeah think uh {disfmarker} Also in between . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Soft rubber .Marketing: Yeah{gap} soft rubberIndustrial Designer: {gap}Marketing: which you can you can feel in it .Industrial Designer: Yeah I know what you {disfmarker} Um .User Interface: I don't think you should be able to mould it,Marketing: Or {disfmarker}User Interface: but {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: It should shouldn't be {gap} .Marketing: No . Or or wh what's something harder . No no no but but you have to like likelike a a eraser or something . That's the bit you can press it in ,User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: or something harder .Industrial Designer: Uh .User Interface: Bit like this kind of rubber . This uh {disfmarker}Marketing:Yeah , something like this , yeah .User Interface: But it's quite hard , this .Marketing: Yeah it's quite hard but you can press it in .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: It's feels kind s spongy .User Interface:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Spongy .Project Manager: Hmm .Marketing: Something . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} I don't think it's rubber .Marketing: No . N n nProject Manager: So we need aspongy feeling . {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh did you have something about uh {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Are you going to invite Sponge Bob , maybe he can {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: So we should first decide about shape , I think .Industrial Designer: Ding ding .User Interface: Which uh {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah I think that's thebetter thing to do . {vocalsound}User Interface: Then you can fit the L_C_D_ screen in it ,Marketing: {gap}User Interface: and can decide uh .Industrial Designer: Um I also s uh can't help but notice {vocalsound} thatyou uh used an {disfmarker} you had a remote control {gap}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and the L_C_D_ screen was uh rather small . Um .Marketing: YeahUser Interface: YeahMarketing: w Ithink that L_C_D_ screen should be like {disfmarker}User Interface: it it's supposed to be bit s bit s bitIndustrial Designer: .. . This was your size ,User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: but I think it should be larger.Marketing: Yeah three quarter of the of the {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah , three quarters . So uh so you don't have to put your {disfmarker} {vocalsound} oh .Marketing: Yeah the buttons won't get that"}
{"doc_id":"doc_167","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Okay , is everybody ready ?Industrial Designer: Yeah ?Marketing: Yeah I'd to just put on my microphone here and I'll be right with you .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Okay ?Project Manager:Um {vocalsound} I take it you all have received instructions as to what you were supposed to doIndustrial Designer: Mm ?User Interface: Yes .Project Manager: and um I think the Marketing Manager probably shouldgo first , addressing the needs and desires .Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay you want me to start right now ?Project Manager: Yeah , mm-hmm .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Well , couldyou um put my slides up 'cause I think it might be helpful if uh we looked at the slides at the same time .Project Manager: Okay . You're participant four .Marketing: I'm participant four I believe . Yes uh-huh .ProjectManager: Okay , and now I can uh full screen .Marketing: 'Kay .Industrial Designer: Open .Project Manager: Uh , okay , okay .Marketing: There we go . Okay well I think we have introduced ourselves ,IndustrialDesigner: And then full screen .Marketing: so the functional requirements are {disfmarker} is {vocalsound} is part of my goal but why don't we pass right to the second slide . Cause that's where m my discussion starts. Right well um since I'm in charge of trying to figure out what we should put on this thing since I have to try to sell it .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Um {vocalsound} I thought that the method I shouldfollow would be gather suggestions from everybody , and th the reason I just put that there like that is that uh in the init in the initial stage I think I should just be open to lots of suggestions . You know you can sayanything you want no matter how silly it sounds you know it should run your car , it should heat up your motor if should um turn on your C_D_ {vocalsound} whatever you want it to do {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: 'Kay .Marketing: um and then as we go on what we'll have to do is accept and eliminate these suggestions according to um design and budget feasibility . So I'll be coming to you um frequently as theIndustrial Expert to tell me how hard it's gonna be to add a feature or how expensive it's gonna be or if your time , if it takes five years to develop this it's just something we can't do .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Yeah . Yeah . Yeah . Hmm hmm . Mm .Marketing: So in the beginning just have a big puddle of things that we {disfmarker} anybody can th throw anything inIndustrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: and then just weedthings out that can't be done for one reason or another , and then the things that seem the most attractive that to uh to a customer we'll try to then prioritise those .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm . Yeah .Marketing: Sothat was um what I meant there , and as I said on the slide there consulting the Industrial Engineer about that and the other thing is timing is really gonna be as important as money , because if we're gonna sell thisthing , I think the best time to sell it is as a Christmas present . Twenty five Euros makes a nice little present , and we want it to be an impulse purchase ,Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: we want somebody to see itand think it's , gee I just gotta have that . And take out their wallet and buy it . So it's gotta be really attractive and it {disfmarker} but it's gotta go to market by September , 'cause anything that you don't already haveout there in September showing it around , isn't gonna sell for Christmas .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Um {vocalsound} and then I'll be coming to you as the User Interface person to try to tell me from yourpoint of view what are the most friendly features that we could put on it and try to prior help me with that prioritising of uh of the features and of the the look and the colourUser Interface: Okay .Marketing: and I'll becoming back to you to help weed out those suggestions from that point of view .User Interface: Okay .Marketing: So I'll be coming to you for how much is it gonna cost us and how long is it gonna take you ,IndustrialDesigner: Mm mm-hmm .Marketing: and I'll be coming to you to tell me what's gonna make somebody take out their wallet you know ,User Interface: What features .Marketing: what what's what's gonna really be whatthey call a sizzle ,User Interface: S sellable . Yes {vocalsound} .Marketing: 'cause we gotta sell this sizzle {vocalsound} .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: A lot of times the thing that works the best from anengineering point of view isn't the thing that somebody's really just gonna take out their wallet and buy for Christmas for for their child or for their husband or whatever .User Interface: Yes .Marketing: Okay can we goto the next slide please ? Alright I I already did a little bit of research after our first meeting where we threw out some ideas and it looks to me that within the budget that we're looking at the uh the whole house ideareally isn't gonna be possible . So I'd like your suggestions to come back to the other slide where I was saying we we could suggest anything .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: I'd like the suggestions to bereally specific , so that we'll have a list of things we can cross off , not something like you know whole house control what'll be {vocalsound} {disfmarker} And then I found on the internet from from my research thatsome extended electronic entertainment control should be possible . At the budget that we're looking at and at the price point we're looking at , we should be able to make it work the T_V_ , the V_C_R_ , the stereo setum maybe something else cute like a coffee pot or one other appliance or maybe a lamp .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh okay , can can I at this point interject um something ?Marketing: I have to wind up ? Yeah ,sure .Project Manager: Um we have received instruction from higher up that certain things should not be uh considered . Um the one thing for example {disfmarker} something to eliminate maybe that's the teletext,Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: because that's sort of outdated with the internet ,Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: and according to to higher management the {disfmarker} itshould only control the T_V_ ,Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: mostly because they feel that it's too comp complex a task to um to to include other things ,Industrial Designer: Complicated , yeah , of course.Project Manager: and they are concerned with the time to market .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Of course , yeah .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: Um and the{disfmarker}Marketing: Okay , so that's something {disfmarker}Project Manager: and the third thing that they wanna make sure um that their {disfmarker} that the corporate image is being maintained , and that thecorporate colour and design are being used on the product , so that it's easy that that that they can be easily identified as a product of of of the company , and that there's no mistake that it could be somebody else whois bringing this out .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: So I just wanted to interject this here so we're not getting too much off track here with uh with the things we wanna look at . These were instructionsfrom higher up so we have to eliminate uh these things , so it's only gonna be T_V_ ,Marketing: Okay so {disfmarker}Project Manager: but the one thing maybe that could be um eliminated is the teletext uh idea.Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Mm 'kay .User Interface: Okay .Marketing: Alright , thanks for that . Um alright now {vocalsound} other things that I found out on {disfmarker} in my research is that the complaintsthat people have about the remote controls that are out there now . 'Cause a lot of them take too much time to learn how to use , and that was thirty four percent but even more important the thing that we did addressin our last meeting that frequently it's lost somewhere in the room . Um so those are two things that we definitely do wanna address , uh we wanna s make it as simple as possible , we wanna make it um obvious andintuitive to use , and then the things about finding it we talked about the {disfmarker} a light emitting thing as well as uh maybe a beep , and I think that those are things after my research that we definitely wanna tryto incorporate . 'Kay can we go to the next slide please ? Okay , so , my personal preferences in this um project are really have to concentrate on the sizzle . That is the selling point , the thing that's gonna make it animpulse purchase . Uh because once there's no be-back , well in sales they always say you know , be-backs don't come back .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: If somebody says , oh I'll come back and get itnext week you're dead . They're never gonna come back and buy it . You've gotta make it attractive enough so they buy it now now now w now is a big word in in my book for selling this thing . And , in order to make itreally sellable we've gotta shorten the learning curve , make sure it's really intuitive and easy to use . We have to have as few buttons as possible , because more buttons is more confusion , so that's why I'm saying ,simplicity is good . Finding it's important , obviously you can't use it if you can't find it . So we've gotta concentrate on the features that help you find it , and I've already said this several times but I put it down inwriting here , it should be an attractive impulse purchase at twenty five Euros . So it has to have enough value that when somebody looks at it they say , uh twenty five Euros I'm not gonna take that . Has to be sogreat that they're gonna say , uh twenty five Euros isn't much . Um and then maybe a motto , like we put fashion in electronics might be something we can use in our marketing campaign .Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Okay that's uh about it for me right now .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay . And uh who would be next , uh , I guess that would be you . Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Yeah 'kay .Project Manager: Youwant me to get your slide show up ?Industrial Designer: Yeah yeah sure .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Thank you .Project Manager: And you are number three ?Industrial Designer: Number two,Project Manager: Number two .Industrial Designer: yeah . Yeah exactly .Project Manager: Okay . Okay .Industrial Designer: Uh can you make it uh full screen please ?Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Yep .IndustrialDesigner: No , it's like a well you you have to press here . The cup cup shape here ?Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah yeah , uh-huh .Industrial Designer: The thir third .Project Manager: There , mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Yeah exactly . Uh so today I'm going to talk about the working design of the remote controller . Um can you go to the next sli slide please ?Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .IndustrialDesigner: The metal is like uh in a remote controller you have a chip integrated circuit which is like a brain of the remote controller . It takes the power from a battery say a battery it it can be a elec an electric supplylike you have to uh like uh switch connec connect connect your remote controller to uh power supply from the you know electricity or something like that . It should be a battery because uh uh remote controller shouldbe like you you you should take it t to wherever you want and then um uh thMarketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: this integrated circuitry takes energy from the power source and whatever like if you press abutton it's like a input for the remote controller and it takes the input and it it transforms into a infro infrared bits and it sends it into the device , like a T_V_ or a air conditioner , something like that so . Uh a remotecontroller is specifically designed to a single device . If you want to design it for multiple devices then you should make all the devices compatible with the frequency like uh th the remote controller it sends some bitssome uh waves like with a particular frequency the device should know what the frequency is . It should re re recognise the uh waves which are coming from the remote controller and it should take the action like if youpress a button channel or something like that then uh the remote uh remote controller will send a send a se {vocalsound} send a signal ,Marketing: {vocalsound} Signal .Industrial Designer: and the T_V_ it shouldtranslate that into like change the channel or something like that , change the volume controlUser Interface: Receive .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: and uh so uh I think it's hardto design a remote controller for multiple uh devices .User Interface: Multi-purpose .Project Manager: Yo and it's {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah well that's already been eliminated by management , so we're off the hook{vocalsound} .Project Manager: yeah {disfmarker} but it's so {vocalsound} .Industrial Designer: Uh yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yep .Industrial Designer: Um . So uh user interface controls the chip andaccordingly the messages like there should be a user user in interface like you know switch pad or something like that buttons should be there . So uh you can control whatever you want , you want to change thechannel you want to control the volume you you want to uh mute uh mute the uh T_V_ or you want to have a child lock or you want to do some operations there's a {disfmarker} there should be some device to tellwhat to do to the uh in uh integrated circuit so that the integrated circuit can s send the signals and T_V_ can perform the actions .Marketing: Mm okay .Industrial Designer: So can you go to the next slide please?Marketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: So I I just would like to uh add some extra features to the remote controller um I think these are the very simple features and uh they don't take much uh uh much of the um uminvestment also ,Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: it's like el the text or buttons which uh which are there on the uh remote controller they {disfmarker} those we can make uh um like fluorescent uh they'll belike light emitting if it is dark so that you can find your remote controller if it is dark .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: And ther there should be a beep if many buttons are pressed if suppose a child is playingwith the remote controller and a and she she or he is pressing the buttons all at the time then there should be a beep saying that it's {disfmarker} this this is not a a you know a a action , there can be no action takingto that so . And there should be a child lock , like uh uh you should be able to lock your remote controller so that uh um whatever buttons are pressed by a child they can't be like y you i you if you have ki kids and allthen they'll be pl playing with the remote controllers so can lock the remote controller . If make it useable for more than one device it's a it's hard but I think it's possibleProject Manager: Yeah well {disfmarker} yeahwell that has been e that has been eliminated , so that's that's unfortunately a moot point now . Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: but it uhMarketing: Well we already eliminated that .Industrial Designer: yeah yeahyeahUser Interface: Eliminated .Industrial Designer: so it's it's okay , yeah , yeah . And uh different shapes that we can do like uh we can have you know a all animals shapes or you know comfortable uh whi which canfit into your handsProject Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and um so that uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Now that's good from a marketing point of view , the fun {disfmarker} the fun shape .IndustrialDesigner: Yeah , yeah , yeah and colours also , different colours , and {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah I {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm-hmm colours .Marketing: And that {disfmarker} you you say that won't addtoo much to the budget ?Industrial Designer: No no no , it won't uh I don't think it will be like ,Marketing: To d the shape is uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: you can have you know for uh if you want ther there tobe more {disfmarker}Project Manager: It just build a mould basically and uh you know .Industrial Designer: Yeah yeah .User Interface: Yes exactly .Industrial Designer: It's it's just a s shape so it doesn't matter.Project Manager: As the budget we're looking at if you build one mould I don't think that's going to make a big difference whether it's gonna be square or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Do youthink there's any chance of um having ser in {disfmarker} having basically the same machine with the same buttons but maybe several different shapes ?Industrial Designer: Yeah that is also possible I uh yeah I I yeah.Project Manager: Oh yes .Marketing: Is that gonna be a possible ?User Interface: Yes .Project Manager: I think {disfmarker}Marketing: 'Cause that might help with the marketing .Project Manager: I think we will haveto look at the budget on thatIndustrial Designer: Yeah that will be {disfmarker}Project Manager: but I think in principle that that would be {disfmarker} that would be kind of fun , you know .Industrial Designer: Yeahyeah .Marketing: Because we had something sort of sexy for adults and we could have something sort ofIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Silly forchildren .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah , for children , yeah exactly .Marketing: silly for childrenProject Manager: Like an animal or {disfmarker}Marketing: or a little animal shape or in a{disfmarker} or a little elephant so they can remember where it is . {vocalsound}User Interface: Like a doll , or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah , that's what , yeah .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer:Yeah , exactly . Yeah .User Interface: Yes {vocalsound} .Industrial Designer: And and the butto buttons also I think if you want to have more features in your remote controller then there should be more buttons . Ifthere are more buttons then it will be more complicated . If you have less features then your remote controller won't be attractive , so I think uh we need to make some buttons which are {disfmarker} which are likeum uh f in uh in intended for two or three operations , like if you press one button in one mode then it will change the channel , if you press the other button in another mode it will change the colour . So if you want tohave less buttons we can have that option but I think it will complicate the matter more I think so .Marketing: Mm . Well , I think {disfmarker} I think that that's something that we'll have to discuss um with the UserInterface personUser Interface: Yes .Industrial Designer: Yep , yeah .Marketing: because I think there's a lot of argument to be made for one button for one feature . Because I think one of the things were complainingabout in my {disfmarker} what I found out in my research is when they complained about how hard it is to learn a new one .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Marketing: The changingmodes was something {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah , it's like you know {vocalsound} yeah .Marketing: I mean you and I , all f all four of us we work with computers all the time ,IndustrialDesigner: Yeah . Yeah , yeah .User Interface: Okay .Marketing: changing modes is nothing for us , but people who {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah , a little elderly , a little arthritic hand you know ,Marketing:{vocalsound} N and {disfmarker}Project Manager: and and it's a small button and and it {disfmarker} they don't press it exactlyIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm . Yeah .Project Manager: you know something elsehappens n not their favourite channel comes up but something elseIndustrial Designer: Yeah , yes .Project Manager: and they're very frustrated you know .User Interface: Something else .Marketing: And that's{disfmarker} and that's the kind of thing people learn by feel , and um {vocalsound} you don't feel the mode change .Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah you don't {vocalsound} us yeah yeah , usually . Yeah .Marketing:{vocalsound} So um maybe having buttons be various shapes might be a help too .Industrial Designer: Yeah shapes also , different shapes .Marketing: You know , like the {disfmarker} a triangle is for the volume anda square is for changing channels , so that people can uh develop a tactile sense of it .Industrial Designer: Yeah that will {disfmarker} Mm-hmm .User Interface: Channels .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Yeah .ProjectManager: Mm , mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Yeah ,Marketing: But we'll get to that with you .User Interface: Yes .Industrial Designer: yeah , and also text should be very clear so that there there won't be anyambiguities and uh {disfmarker}Marketing: That's right , yeah . Now that's a good point . Yeah .User Interface: Yes .Industrial Designer: So yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: And uh displayclock i if you want more features then we can display a clock it I I don't think it will take any money extra money because anyway we have an integrated circuit I think we can just definitely fit that feature into the circuit"}
{"doc_id":"doc_168","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: {vocalsound} Oh .User Interface: DuProject Manager: Okay . Thanks for coming to this meeting .Marketing: Hm .Project Manager: S how we doing on our remote ?User Interface: {vocalsound}ProjectManager: We have some {disfmarker} we have some ideas and some uh ideas for what people want .User Interface: Uh we yes s I've lo {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: I've done the role that Iwas asked to do anyway .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound} I think .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Alright let's just go over the agenda real quick for this meeting . See if Ican't get things uh moving along here a little bit better . Um I'll go over what we went over last time , which shouldn't take long . Then I believe each of you have a presentation . Um I've was sent a a couple morerequirements for our remote , what they want . Um then we can come to a conclusion on uh what we want the remote to do , um and how it's going to do it hopefully . And uh then we'll have the closing . {vocalsound}Um which we'll have forty minutes for . Uh let's see , the last meeting we went over um {vocalsound} who was responsible for what . I'm responsible for leading the meetings , keeping the notes , uh and coming upwith the final presentation . Um Corinne is our Marketing Expert . She's gonna figure out what what um the consumer wants . Um {vocalsound} Ryan is our User Interface Designer . And Manuel is the IndustrialDesigner . So you're gonna come up with the ideas Ryan , and you're gonna pick 'em apart .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um we decided our remote , uh we want it to be a universalremote uh that everyone would want . Um we want to be modern , um fun , different . Uh it needs to be sturdy , um easy to find , so we gonna have that locator function . Um and we want to be different . Um and thenwe went over a couple of different ideas . Ball-shaped phone . The keyboard shape . Um we decided that it should probably be one-handed . Something we could use with one hand . Um and that was our last meeting .So um why don't um {disfmarker} Do each of you have a presentation ?Marketing: Yep .Project Manager: Okay . I'll hand it off to you and um {disfmarker} Does anyone {disfmarker} do you wanna go first ?Marketing:Sure .Project Manager: So we can maybe see what uh what the people want .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: What was it ? Function ?Industrial Designer: Eight . F_ eight .Marketing: F_ eight ? Well .{vocalsound} How do I get it {disfmarker}User Interface: Slide show .Project Manager: To go to the next one ?Marketing: Oh right right right .Project Manager: Yeah you click on that guy .Marketing: That one ?ProjectManager: Yeah .Marketing: Okay . Alright . Well , this is my report , which is going to be based pretty much on a survey that I was sent . Oh gosh , I've no idea . {vocalsound} GUser Interface: Just press the arrow keysI think . Usually goes to it .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Sorry I actually need to see something else on my screen .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}ProjectManager: Hit F_ eight again .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: I think .Marketing: And then ? Again ?Project Manager: Yeah . You want it to be on both screens , or just just yours ?Marketing: No I want something elseon mine . Is that possible ?Project Manager: Yeah but I think you have to hit escape . And then you can {disfmarker} Yeah .Marketing: Okay but now you don't have that .Project Manager: Oh hit F_ eight again.Marketing: {vocalsound} Sorry guys .Project Manager: I know . I did the same thing . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: And then it should come up here shortly . 'Kay .Marketing: {vocalsound}So is there no way I can give you the slideshow andProject Manager: I think {disfmarker} oh give us the slideshow and something on your screen ?Marketing: yeah . Yeah .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: Oh well.Project Manager: I'm not sure . You could maybe minimise that screen and then have them both up at the same time I think .Marketing: Yeah . It's okay . Okay . Um so first of all , the method that I used was by doingsome marketing research ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: by um doing research on some interviews that were conducted . And then some internet research . And I was sent a report that was {disfmarker}I think there were a hundred remote users that they interviewed . And so I will show you some of the results from that , which I think will be helpful . Um okay here are some of the findings . They said that the usersdislike the look and feel of their current remote controls . And seventy five percent of the users find their remote controls to be ugly . Which is a fairly significant number I would say . And eighty percent of the userswould be willing to spend more money if they could get a remote that would look fancy . So I think that earlier we were onto something when we were talking about having it be a modern cool look , I think that'sdefinitely important . Um they say that current remote controls do not match well the operating behaviour of the user . Seventy five percent of users said they zap a lot . And if anyone could clarify what that means?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Just jusUser Interface: Is is it j just justMarketing: Zap , does that just mean like changing the channel ?User Interface: just using itIndustrial Designer: yeah .User Interface: yeah.Marketing: Okay . {vocalsound} Um and fifty percent of the users say that they're only using ten percent of the buttons on their remote control . And there was something else , they kept track of the frequency perhour in using certain buttons . And some of them it looks like barely need to be included at all . Of course channel selection is used the most frequently . And then teletext was the next . Volume and then power . Andthen audio settings and screen settings and channel settings were practically never used . So I think we could definitely eliminate or somehow combine a lot of the functions into one button . Um the biggest userfrustrations , as we said fifty percent of people find that their remotes are lost somewhere , and so I think a tracking device of some sort would be a good idea . They said it take {disfmarker} thirty four percent said ittakes too much time to learn how to use a new remote . And twenty six percent said that the controls are bad for R_S_I_ . {vocalsound}User Interface: A repetitive strain injury .Marketing: What is it ?User Interface:Just repetitive strain injury . I think . That's what I guess .Marketing: Okay . Okay . And so bas okay . Um as far as speech recognition goes , um the younger group looks like they're all for it . From the fifteen to twentyfive age group over ninety percent said they would pay more . And it kind of just went down incrementally . The groups at {disfmarker} the older they get it looks like the less willing they are to pay , so maybe we coulddiscuss this and think {disfmarker} and decide if we think it's worth investing in this . At least if we're targeting the younger groups . And so in conclusion . Some things that I drew from this are that I think we werecorrect . We definitely need to focus on a new modern appearance , since so many people seem to be concerned about the ugliness of their remote control . Um a multifunctional remote could be a good thing to explore. So you only have one rather than five different remotes sitting all over your room . Uh we need to simplify the remote and reduce the number of buttons , get rid of the ones that don't seem to be serving muchpurpose . And then lastly I thought that maybe we could discuss the idea of speech recognition . And that's it .Project Manager: 'Kay . Very nice . Now we actually have some ideas of what what people want , what weshould focus on . Uh {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Wait can I look at that real quick ? {gap} .Marketing: Oh yeah . Sorry did you guys get time to write everything that you needed ?UserInterface: Yeah .Marketing: 'Kay .User Interface: Having just listened to what Corinne just said , I'll draw on some of the things as well . {vocalsound} {gap} Some things that sort of relevant to what I wanna say . 'Kayso I'm just gonna yeah approach the technical functions design . Um {vocalsound} the method I used was to explore the uh technical functions of a remote control .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: And t ssimplest approach that I came to is is to change , programme and operate an electronic device remotely . I mean that's an obvious thing to say , but it's not attached to the device that you want to control . Um I hadsome things sent to me . Not very much . To look at similar devices . Um defined in some them . And then the personal preferences that I will suggest . Um we discussed a universal one . Um like it's just been broughtup again then . But I think a universal remote control is actually quite a difficult object to design , and po possibly within maybe the budget that we do it , um because you'd need to know all the spef specifications of aall the like electronic companies . I'm not sure have you ever come across a universal remote control yourself , but you have to {disfmarker} i they're a nightmare to use . You have to set them , reset them toeverything . Um and that would only add buttons . Whereas I think the aim is to take away buttons . So I think it'd be better maybe to concentrate on maybe just a universal one for T_V_s . Um or maybe just one thatyou could we could design and then different people , manufacturers could use it to set to their specifications , if if the aim is to get something that's unique in design . Um {disfmarker} Okay here here's just twopictures of remote controls . They're just simple T_V_ remote controls . But one is uh user-centred . That is the one on the left . And you can straight away see there's less buttons . And the other one is {gap}engineer-centred where that's more uh specified for the sort of the elaborate piece of equipment it's trying to control um {disfmarker} {gap} which appeals more to the product that we want , and on what the {gap}have said and the market research and stuff {gap} probably looking at something that should be user-centred . Fewer buttons , simpler to use , and if ten percent um is hidden away {disfmarker} if ten percent iswhat's used , maybe the other fifty percent , the buttons that are used very rarely like programming , they could be hidden maybe under {disfmarker} some remote controls you might have come across have maybe alittle flip thi thing where they're hidden away . And the main buttons are the ones you or the ones you come across . Um and finally , um uh sort I've sort of covered that , our product I think should be user interfaceorientated . Um {disfmarker} Like I said to concentrate on T_V_ remote control , a universal remote might be too complex . Um and as what it , the major findings {gap} market researchers have said , it's the imageand the appearance that people di dislike . So that we should concentrate on something that would set a trend . And that's it .Industrial Designer: {gap} cable there . Thank you .Project Manager: What was your lastconclusion on that one ? Focus on uh the iUser Interface: On something on the image of it .Project Manager: the image of it .User Interface: Uh the f the actual design .Project Manager: 'Kay . Good . Good .IndustrialDesigner: Okay . Gonna talk to you about the working design of the interiors basically which is what dictates the design the both the interface basically and the outer appearance because this is all the stuff that needs togo in there . Right . So unfortunately the people who were supposed to do this little presentation for me obviously were too drunk to actually accomplish it ,Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: so um {vocalsound} I'm going to do a lot of the stuff on the board . Um just {disfmarker} This is the basic basic premise of a remote control . Um the basic function is to sendmessages to another system . Okay so much is clear . An energy source feeds an integrated circuit , like a chip , that can compose messages . {vocalsound} Often in the form of infrared bits . This is the most mostlyused . Um there's uh also some sound systems but infrared is the better or the more more used system . Um parts are cheaper as well . A user interface controls the chip and accordingly the messages . This is wheremy people screwed up basically .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So I'm going to explain that on the board rather . Um what we have is different components that obviously need to go in there . We'll startwith an energy source . Right . Um which is usually a battery right ? {vocalsound} Since it's not feasible to add a cable to that . This energy source of course is connected to the the user interface itself {vocalsound} .Uh which can be buttons , whatever , which in fact controls a chip . Right ? This is the user interface and there we have the chip . Um the way this goes normally is that this chip then controls an infrared lamp . Thatsends out the signal . Of course the signal differs accordingly . Um depending on what the chip tells the infrared lan lamp . And {disfmarker} Of course that's controlled , the chip itself is controlled by the user interface .The way you normally normally do it is that you add a little device such as a lamp to the whole thing as well , so that you know that it's working basically . You press something , you get a response . Which is alsocomparatively um important on one of those devices . Now this , what we're talking about here , or what I think should be discussed are these two components mostly . The the uh energy source for one thing can bealtered . What we probably cannot alter is of course the infrared , the sending device basically , the infrared lamp . We cannot change the chip which controls the infrared lamp . Right ? These two are components thatwe have to use , and these are dictated by the whole function of the whole thing . Um the lamp can be put onto the desi the device . It c it doesn't have to be there . This can be discussed as well . {vocalsound} Theuser interface . That's something we can also discuss . Um as we've heard uh speech recognition is the hype obviously in the moment . Speech recognition um interface , we don't know that . Or if we just do the usualbutton thing . Or we have a touch pad or something like that {disfmarker} that's something we can discuss . And of course the energy source . Batteries . Solar cells . Who knows ? {vocalsound} Of course it's always aquestion whether these these components are in fact {vocalsound} available cheap enough , developed enough . But that's like I s I suppose rather up to marketing , and not toProject Manager: So we could{disfmarker} the theIndustrial Designer: to the industrial design department .Project Manager: the more complex we make it of course , the more expensive {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Expensive it's gonna beget uh . Yeah .Project Manager: But people have said that they would {disfmarker} well younger generations of people have said that they would pay more for a speech recognition remote .Marketing: Mm-hmm .ProjectManager: So possibly it might be worth the investment .Industrial Designer: Right .User Interface: I think speech recognition was uh one of those things where um they have to be really good for them to work . 'Causesometimes you find yourself just saying things over and o {gap} if it's on your phone .Marketing: Yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: I agree . Well {disfmarker}User Interface: And you need to sort of take into lightlanguages and then {vocalsound} different dialects I suppose as well .Project Manager: I {disfmarker} myself I find , when you , h when there's something like spee speech recognition . Like uh you call on the phoneand you try to change your telephone or power or something . Sometimes they have a a speech recognition on the other end ,User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: and you say one for this , and you find yours , likeyou said , saying the same thing over and over and over . I find myself , especially if I'm in a crowd of people , looking really silly .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So maybe if you'resitting on your couch with a bunch of people then you know , you {vocalsound} {disfmarker}User Interface: And wou I don't know if would would you want to keep saying stuff if you were watching stuff . If you werewatching something would you sort of be wanting {disfmarker}Project Manager: Volume up . Volume down . Change the channel , you know channel up , channel down ?User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: I I don'tknow .Marketing: Another thing about these figures is ninety one percent of the youngest age groups said they'd do it , but probably a lot of them that's actually their parents money . Like I don't know if they wouldactually go out and purchase this themselves , a fifteen year old you know .User Interface: I think {disfmarker} As well it'd be j the gimmick factor for the younger people .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: But practically I don't think it's {gap} {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's a , it's a gimmick factor that they like at first , and {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah . It'll wear off .Marketing: Gets old yeah.Project Manager: Okay . Um {disfmarker} Let's see here .User Interface: Do you wanna put your cord back in ?Project Manager: Yeah I guess so .Industrial Designer: Oh right . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Tradeyou .Industrial Designer: {gap} go . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Now I was sent a couple of things to modify our uh new requirements . Um the remote's only gonna be for the television , which is good because wealready decided {disfmarker} y your your research showed that uh not only is a universal remote more complicated , it's more cost , more costly . And your re uh research showed that you know most of the peopledon't even use it . I think uh you said fifty percent of the people only use half the or ten percent of the buttons .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: So if we remove the universal remote then that solves that problem .Um no teletext . Um {disfmarker} So we don't have to worry about that . Um but we do have to use the the company wants us to incorporate the corporate colour and our slogan , which is we put the fashion inelectronics . And our corporate colours are grey and yellow . And we could probably get away with black too but {disfmarker} So those are the three um the three new requirements that that I was told we need to use .Um from all all three of your uh presentations , I think that we were on the right track a lot in our last meeting . We want something that looks good . Um we want something that's simple . We want something that youcan find easily . Um {disfmarker} And the speech recognition I I guess is kind of uh give or take . It's gonna cost more . S the young the younger people say that they like it .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .ProjectManager: But um it's probably , I would say , probably not worth the investment at this point in time . So maybe we should just do away with speech recognition . Um {disfmarker} And that way we can focus on ourform .User Interface: I did have have a thought about the sort of the tracking thing . Is that {disfmarker} if it came with maybe a holder or holster , whatever you wanna call it . Um that you you should put it back in .Your remote . But if you don't put it back in , you press something like a little button on that , and that just sort of sends out a beep {vocalsound} to find where it is or something . Just by infrared . That shouldn't be toocomplex I would've thought .Project Manager: That'd be , that'd be good if we were going with our our ball .User Interface: Yeah it would be quite good .Project Manager: Or or with {disfmarker} you know I guess withany form that that would be good .User Interface: The ball could sit on a {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: You know that could be the charger . For you knowUser Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: wecould use rechargeable batteries in the remote . And that would be {disfmarker} or solar . Or you know {disfmarker} However , however you wanted to go about it , the holder could also be the charging unit . Um{disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: With the locator button . Um and if it were the ball you'd no longer have to have a flat space on it .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Um likeIndustrial Designer:WellProject Manager: ifIndustrial Designer: you still do .Project Manager: we still have the how to hold on to itIndustrial Designer: You s you still {disfmarker} W yeah . You put it on t on the couch table .ProjectManager: {vocalsound} It's gonna roll away .Industrial Designer: While you're watching ,Marketing: {vocalsound} Rolls awayIndustrial Designer: it's gonna roll off . SoMarketing: yeah .Industrial Designer: that's not an"}
{"doc_id":"doc_169","qid":"","text":"Grad F: Test .Postdoc G: OK .Professor B: Let 's see , I should be Two .PhD D: Up high {disfmarker}Grad E: As close to your mouth as you can get it .Professor B: LaPhD D: high as you can get .Professor B: Is thischannel one ?Postdoc G: Yeah , on your upper lip .PhD H: Channel one one one .Professor B: Gee , OK . Yes . OK .Grad E: OK , so for {disfmarker} for {disfmarker} For people wearing the wireless mikes , like{disfmarker} like this one , I find the easiest way to wear it is sorta this {disfmarker} this sorta like that .PhD H: This is {disfmarker} chan channel channel one one two threeGrad F: Channel five , channel five.Professor B: Yeah . Mm - hmm . What do you do ,Grad E: It 's actually a lot more comfortable then if you try to put it over your temples ,Grad F: Test , test test .Professor B: you do it higher ?Grad E: so{disfmarker}Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD D: Adam 's just trying to generate good uh data for the recognizer there .Postdoc G: Yeah , I think we 're supposed to {disfmarker} that 's right .Grad E: And then also , for{disfmarker} for all of them , if your boom is adjustable , the boom should be towards the corner of your mouth ,Grad F: Test test .PhD A: By the way , there was a bug . Yeah , i it wasn't using the properPhD D: Oh itwas .Grad E: and about a uh a thumb to a thumb and a half distance away from your mouth ,PhD A: basically it wasn't adapting anything .PhD D: Oh .Grad E: so about like I 'm wearing it now .PhD D: Oh that 'sinteresting . So why didn't you get the same results and the unadapted ?Grad E: so so Jane , you could actually do even a little closer to your mouth ,PhD H: It 's not always possible .PhD A: Hmm ?PhD D: Why didn'tyou get the same results and the unadapted ?Postdoc G: I could {disfmarker} can this be adjuste like this ?Grad E: but {disfmarker}PhD A: Oh , because when it estimates the transformer pro produces like a singlematrix or something .Grad E: Yep .Postdoc G: Is that @ @ ? OK , thank you .Grad F: Adam , I 'm not {disfmarker}PhD D: O Oh oh I see .Grad F: uh , looks kinda low on channel five {disfmarker}PhD D: I see , I see.Professor B: OK .Grad F: no ?Grad E: Channel five , s speak again .Grad F: Maybe not .Postdoc G: Hello .PhD A: Basically there were no countsGrad E: Yeah , that 's alright .Grad F: Hello ?Grad E: I mean , we could{disfmarker} we could up the gain slightly if you wanted to .Grad F: It 's OK ?PhD H: Yeah .Grad F: Is this OK ?PhD H: OK .PhD D: I see what you mean .PhD C: Who 's channel B ?Grad E: but {disfmarker} Uh , channelB is probably Liz .PhD C: Uh oh .PhD H: Uh channel B {disfmarker} I am channel B .Professor B: You wanna close this ,Postdoc G: Channel eight , eight .Professor B: orPhD C: No IGrad E: Thank you .PhD H: No ,channel B .PhD A: Hello , hello .PhD C: yeah , yeah , you 're channel B .PhD H: Yeah , yeah .PhD C: So can you talk a bit ? I thought it might be tooPhD H: OK , yeah , channel B , one two three four five .PhD C: OK.Grad E: Yeah , it 's alright . So , the gain isn't real good .Professor B: We 're recording ,PhD C: OK .Professor B: right ?Grad E: OK , so we are recording .PhD H: Ah .Professor B: Yeah .PhD A: OK .Grad E: Um everyoneshould have at least two forms possibly three in front of you depending on who you are .Grad F: Oh .Grad E: Um we {disfmarker} we 're doing a new speaker form and you only have to spea fill out the speaker formonce but everyone does need to do it . And so that 's the name , sex , email , et cetera .PhD H: Mm - hmm .Grad E: We {disfmarker} we had a lot of discussion about the variety of English and so on so if you don'tknow what to put just leave it blank . Um I {disfmarker} I designed the form and I don't know what to put for my own region ,PhD A: Mmm .Grad E: soPhD D: California .PhD A: I think {disfmarker}Grad E: California.PhD H: California .PhD A: Um may I make one suggestion ? Instead of age put date of {disfmarker} uh year of birthGrad E: Sure .PhD A: because age will change , but The year of birth changes , you know , stays thesame , usually .Grad E: Oh .PhD C: A actually , wait a minute ,Grad E: Birth year ?Postdoc G: Although on {disfmarker}PhD A: Yeah .PhD C: shouldn't it be the other way around ?PhD D: Not for me .Postdoc G: courseon the other {disfmarker} on the other hand you could {disfmarker} you view it as the age at the time of the {disfmarker}PhD C: On the other side ,PhD A: Well the thing is , if ten years from now you look at this formknowing that {disfmarker}PhD C: yeah .Postdoc G: Yes , but what we care about is the age at {disfmarker} at the recording date rather than the {disfmarker}PhD C: O yeah .PhD D: But there 's no other date on theform .PhD C: W we don't care how they {disfmarker} old they really are .PhD A: Well {disfmarker} well I don't know .Postdoc G: Yes . {vocalsound} Unless we wanna send them a card .Grad E: Well I guess it dependson how long the corpus is gonna be collected for .PhD A: Anyway .Postdoc G: Yeah , that 's true .PhD C: I still don't see the problem .Grad E: Either way yeah I think {disfmarker} I think age is alrightPhD A: OK .GradE: and then um there will be attached to this a point or two these forms uh so that you 'll be able to extract the date off thatPhD A: Mm - hmm .Grad E: so , anyway . And so then you also have a digits form which needsto be filled out every time , the speaker form only once , the digit form every time even if you don't read the digits you have to fill out the digits form so that we know that you were at the meeting . OK ? And then also ifyou haven't filled one out already you do have to fill out a consent form . And that should just be one person whose name I don't know . OK ?Grad F: Do you want this {pause} Adam ?Grad E: Uh sure . Thank you.Professor B: So uhGrad E: OK so should we do agenda items ?Professor B: Uh oh that 's a good idea . I shouldn't run the meeting .Grad E: Uh well I have {disfmarker} I wanna talk about new microphones and wirelessstuff .Postdoc G: Mmm .Grad E: And I 'm sure Liz and Andreas wanna talk about recognition results . Anything else ?PhD C: I guess {disfmarker} what time do we have to leave ? Three thirty ?PhD A: Yeah .PhD C:Yeah ,Grad E: Why don't you go first then .PhD C: so .Professor B: Yeah , good idea .PhD A: OK .PhD C: Um Well , I {disfmarker} I sent out an email s couple hours ago so um with Andreas ' help um Andreas puttogether a sort of no frills recognizer which is uh gender - dependent but like no adaptation , no cross - word models , no trigrams {disfmarker} a bigram recognizer and that 's trained on Switchboard which is telephoneconversations . Um and thanks to Don 's help wh who {disfmarker} Don took the first meeting that Jane had transcribed and um {vocalsound} you know separated {disfmarker} used the individual channels wesegmented it in into the segments that Jane had used and uh Don sampled that so {disfmarker} so eight K um and then we ran up to I guess the first twenty minutes , up to synch time of one two zero zero so is that{disfmarker} that 's twenty minutes or so ? Um yeah because I guess there 's some ,Grad E: Or so .PhD C: and Don can talk to Jane about this , there 's some bug in the actual synch time file that ah uh I 'm{disfmarker} we 're not sure where it came from but stuff after that was a little messier . Anyway so it 's twenty minutes and I actuallyGrad E: Hmm .PhD C: umGrad E: I {disfmarker} was that {disfmarker} did that{disfmarker} did that recording have the glitch in the middle ?Postdoc G: I 'm puzzled by that . I {disfmarker} oh {disfmarker} oh , I see .PhD C: There 's {disfmarker} there 's a {disfmarker}Postdoc G: Oh there wasa glitch somewhere .PhD C: yeah , so that actually umGrad F: Was it twenty minutes in ,PhD C: if it was twenty minutes in then I don't knowPostdoc G: I forgot about that .Grad F: I thought {disfmarker}PhD A: Well itwas interesting ,Postdoc G: Well , I mean , they {disfmarker}PhD A: suddenly {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the overall error rate when we first ran it was like eighty percentGrad E: I don't remember when it is.Postdoc G: but I was able to can transcribePhD A: but i looking at {disfmarker} the first sentences looked much better than that and then suddenly it turned very bad and then we noticed that the reference was alwaysone off with the {disfmarker} it was actually recognizedPhD C: WelGrad E: Oh no .Grad F: Yeah , that might be {disfmarker} that might be {disfmarker} that might be my fault .Postdoc G: Wow .PhD A: soGrad E: Ohso that was just a parsing mismatch .Grad F: I 'm not {disfmarker}PhD A: OK .PhD C: No actually it was {disfmarker} yeah i it was a complicated bug because they were sometimes one off and then sometimes totallyrandom so umGrad F: yeah , I was pretty certain that it worked up until that time ,Postdoc G: Oh . That 's not good .PhD C: YeahPhD A: OK .PhD C: so that 's what we haveGrad E: Alright .Grad F: soPhD C: but that{disfmarker} that will be completely gone if this synch time problemPostdoc G: Yeah .Grad E: The {disfmarker} the glitchPhD A: So {disfmarker} so we have everything recognized but we scored only the first uhwhatever , up to that time toPostdoc G: And the only glitch {disfmarker}Grad E: yeah .Postdoc G: yeah .PhD C: So you guys know .Professor B: S sorry I haven't seen the email ,PhD C: Yeah .Grad E: Th - thePostdocG: The {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} well {disfmarker} waitProfessor B: what was the score ?PhD C: So here 's the actual copy of the emailPostdoc G: we should say something about the glitch . He {disfmarker} hecan say something about the glitch .PhD C: um oh OKGrad E: yeah .Postdoc G: Cuz it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} h it 's {disfmarker} it 's very small {disfmarker}PhD C: so does this glitch occurat other {disfmarker}Grad E: There {disfmarker} there {disfmarker} there 's an acoustic glitch that occurs where um the channels get slightly asynchronizedPostdoc G: very small . Yep .PhD C: Oh .PhD A: Mmm .PhDC: Right .Grad E: so the {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that problem has gone away in the original driver believe it or not when the SSH key gen ran the driver paused for a fraction of a secondProfessor B: Hmm .GradF: Hmm .Grad E: and so the channels get a little asynchronous and so if you listen to it in the middle there 's a little part where it starts doing {disfmarker} doing click sounds .Professor B: So {disfmarker}PhD C: And isit only once that that happens ?Grad E: But yeahPhD C: OK .Grad E: it {disfmarker} right once in the middle .PhD C: There 's {disfmarker} the previous page has some more information about sort of what waswrongProfessor B: so {disfmarker} so un unsurprisingly Adam is the golden voice ,PhD C: butGrad E: Um But that shouldn't affect anythingPhD C: OK so that 's actuallyPostdoc G: S and it {disfmarker}Professor B: yousee this here ?PhD C: It {disfmarker} y it 's {disfmarker}Grad E: yeah yeah \" bah \"PhD C: OK no {disfmarker}PhD A: Oh , and {disfmarker}PhD C: What happens is it actually affects the script that Don{disfmarker}PhD D: Huh .PhD C: I mean if we know about it then I guess it could always be checked for itGrad E: Well the acoustic one shouldn't do anything .PhD C: but theyGrad F: Yeah , I don't know exactly whataffected itPostdoc G: I agree . I agree .PhD A: I {disfmarker} I have {disfmarker}Grad F: but I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll talk to you about it ,PhD A: Yeah .Grad E: But I {disfmarker} I do remember {disfmarker}PhD C:Yeah .Grad F: I 'll show you the point .Postdoc G: Yeah . It {disfmarker} it had no effect on my transcription ,PhD A: Mmm .Postdoc G: you know , I mean I {disfmarker} I had no trouble hearing it and {disfmarker}and having time binsGrad E: I do remember seeing once the transcriber produce an incorrect XML file where one of the synch numbers was incorrect .Postdoc G: but there was a {disfmarker} Oh .PhD C: Well , the{disfmarker} the synch time {disfmarker} the synch numbers have more significant digits than they should ,Grad F: That 's what happened .Postdoc G: Oh .PhD H: Yeah .Grad E: Where {disfmarker} where theyweren't monotonic .Grad F: There was {disfmarker} yeah , I mean {disfmarker}PhD C: right ? There 's things that are l in smaller increments than a frame .PhD H: Yeah .Postdoc G: Oh , interesting .PhD C: And so then, I mean you look at that and it 's got you know more than three significant digits in a synch time then that can't be rightGrad E: Oh OK so that 'sGrad F: Hmm .Postdoc G: Oh .PhD A: Mmm .PhD C: so anyway it 's{disfmarker} it 's just {disfmarker}Grad E: yeah sounds like a bug .Postdoc G: Yeah .PhD C: that 's why we only have twenty minutes but there 's a significant amount of {disfmarker}Grad F: Non - zero ? Um there arelike more {disfmarker} cuz there 's a lot of zeros I tacked on just because of the way the script ran ,Grad E: The other one I saw was that it yeah .Grad F: I mean but there were there was a point .PhD C: Yeah that wasfine . That {disfmarker} that was OK .Grad E: The other one I saw was non non - monotonic synch timesGrad F: OK .Grad E: and that definitely indicra indicates a bug .Grad F: Uh .PhD C: Well that would really be aproblem , yeah . So anyway these are just the ones that are the prebug for one meeting .Grad F: Yeah .PhD C: um and what 's {disfmarker} which {disfmarker}Grad E: So that 's very encouraging .PhD C: this is reallyencouraging cuz this is free recognition ,Professor B: Hmm .PhD H: Yeah .Professor B: Cool .PhD A: Mmm .PhD C: there 's no I mean the language model for Switchboard is totally different so you can see some like thisTrent Lott whichPhD D: Trent Lott .PhD C: um I mean these are sort of funny ones ,PhD D: It 'll get those though .PhD C: there 's a lot of perfect ones and good ones and all the references , I mean you can read themand when we get more results you can look through and seeGrad E: I and as I said I would like to look at the latticesPhD A: Mm - hmm .PhD C: but um it 's pretty good .Grad E: because it sounded like even the ones itgot wrong it sort of got it right ?PhD C: Well so I guess we can generateGrad E: Sounds likes ?PhD A: There are a fair number of errors that are , you know where {disfmarker} got the plural S wrong or the inflection onthe verb wrong .Postdoc G: Mm - hmm .PhD C: umGrad E: Yeah , and who cares ? And {disfmarker} and there were lots of {disfmarker} of course the \" uh uh \" - s , \" in on \" - s \" of uh \" - s .PhD A: Mmm , so if{disfmarker}PhD C: there 's {disfmarker} No those are actuallyPhD A: Yeah .PhD C: a lot of the errors I think are out of vocabulary ,PhD A: Mm - hmm .PhD C: so is it like PZM is three words , it 's PZM ,PhD A: Mm -hmm .PhD C: I mean there 's nothing There 's no language model for PZM orGrad E: Right . Ri - ri right .PhD C: umGrad E: Did you say there 's no language for PZM ?PhD C: No language model , I mean those{disfmarker}Grad E: Do you mean {disfmarker} so every time someone says PZM it 's an error ? Maybe we shouldn't say PZM in these meetings .PhD C: Well {disfmarker} well there 's all kinds of other stuff like Jimletand I mean um anyway there {disfmarker}Grad E: Yeah , that 's right , Jimlet .Professor B: Well , we don't even know what that means ,PhD C: so {vocalsound} but this is really encouraging becauseProfessor B: soIGrad E: Yeah , that 's right .PhD C: so , I mean the bottom line is even though it 's not a huge amount of data um it should be uh reasonable to actually run recognition and be like within the scope of {disfmarker} of rreasonable s you know Switchboard this is like h about how well we do on Switchboard - two data with the Switchboard - one trained {disfmarker} mostly trained recognizerGrad E: Right .PhD C: and Switchboard - twois {disfmarker} got sort of a different population of speakers and a different topicGrad E: Excellent .PhD C: and they 're talking about things in the news that happened after Switchboard - one so there was @ @ so that's great .Professor B: Yeah . Yeah so we 're in better shape than we were say when we did {disfmarker} had the ninety - three workshopPhD C: UmProfessor B: and we were all getting like seventy percent error onSwitchboard .PhD A: Mm - hmm .PhD C: Oh yeahProfessor B: you knowPhD C: I mean this is really ,PhD A: Mmm .PhD C: and thanks to Andreas who , I mean this is aPhD A: Mmm .Grad E: Well especially for the veryfirst run , I mean you {disfmarker}PhD A: Oh it 's the {disfmarker}Professor B: Yeah .PhD C: eh umProfessor B: Yeah .PhD C: yeahGrad E: the first run I ran of Switchboard I got a hundred twenty percent word errorbutPhD C: So and what al also this means is thatPostdoc G: Right .PhD C: umGrad E: Not Switchboard ,PhD A: Well it 's {disfmarker}PhD C: I mean there 's a bunch of things in this note to various peopleGrad E: uhBroadcast News .PhD C: especially I guess um with Jane that {disfmarker} that would help for {disfmarker} since we have this new data now uh in order to go from the transcripts more easily to um just the words thatthe recognizer would use for scoring . I had to deal with some of it by hand but I think a lot of it can be automated s by {disfmarker}Professor B: Oh one thing I guess I didn't get so you know the language model wasstraight from {disfmarker} from bigram from Switchboard the acoustic models were also from Switchboard or {disfmarker} orPhD A: Yeah .PhD C: Yeah .Professor B: So they didn't have anything from this acousticdata in yet ?Postdoc G: That 's amazing .Grad E: Yeah , so that 's great .PhD C: No .Professor B: OK .PhD C: And actually {disfmarker} we actually um used Switchboard telephone bandwidth modelsPostdoc G: That 'samazing .PhD A: Well that 's {disfmarker} those are the only we ones there are ,Professor B: Yeah .PhD C: which I guessPhD D: I was just gonna say ,PhD C: so that 's the on that 's the only acoustic training data thatwe have a lot ofPhD D: yeah .PhD A: I meanGrad E: Yeah .PhD A: Right .PhD C: and I guess Ramana , so a guy at SRI said that um there 's not a huge amount of difference going from {disfmarker}Professor B: Right.PhD C: it 's {disfmarker} it 's not like we probably lose a huge amount but we won't know because we don't have any full band models for s conversational speech .PhD D: It 's probably not as bad as going f using fullband models on telephone band speechPhD C: So .PhD A: Oh yeah .PhD C: Right .PhD D: right ?PhD A: Yeah .Professor B: Yeah ,PhD C: Right , so it 's {disfmarker} soProfessor B: but for Broadcast News when we{disfmarker} we played around between the two there wasn't a huge loss .Grad E: Right , it was not a big deal .PhD C: YeahPhD A: I should {disfmarker} I should say that {disfmarker} the language model is not justSwitchboardPhD C: so I wou so that 's good .Grad E: Although combining em worked well .PhD A: it 's also {disfmarker} I mean there 's uh actually more data is from Broadcast News but with a little less weightPhD C:Yeah .PhD A: uh becauseProfessor B: Uh - huh .PhD C: Like Trent Lott must have been fromPhD A: mm - hmm , right .PhD C: I guess {vocalsound} Switchboard was beforePhD A: Um By the way just {disfmarker} forfun we also ran ,PhD C: uh .Professor B: Good point .PhD A: I mean our complete system starts by doing ge a gender detectionProfessor B: Mm - hmm .PhD A: so just for the heck of it I ran thatGrad E: And it said ahundred percent male ?PhD A: um and it might be reassuring for everybody to know that it got all the genders right .PhD C: The jPhD A: Yeah soGrad E: Oh it did ?Postdoc G: Oh that 's {disfmarker} I 'm glad .Grad E:It got all two genders ?PhD C: Yeah but you know Jane and Adam have you kn about equal performancePhD A: Yeah . Yes .PhD C: and uh and that 's interesting cuz I think the {disfmarker} their language models arequite different so and I {disfmarker} I 'm pretty sure from listening to Eric that , you know given the words he was saying and given his pronunciation that the reason that he 's so much worse is the lapel .Professor B:Yeah .Grad E: Right .Postdoc G: That makes a lot of sense ,PhD C: So it 's nice now if we can just sort of eliminate the lapel one when {disfmarker} when we get new microphonesPostdoc G: yeah . Very possible.Professor B: Yeah I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I would bet on that tooPhD C: that would be worth itProfessor B: cuz he certainly in that {disfmarker} when as a {disfmarker} as a burp user he was {disfmarker} hewas a pretty uh strong one .PhD C: um YeahGrad E: Sheep .PhD C: he {disfmarker} he {disfmarker} he sounded to me just from {disfmarker} he sounded like a ,Professor B: Yeah .PhD C: what 's it a sheep or a goat?Professor B: Sheep .Grad E: A sheep .PhD C: Sheep ,Grad E: Baah .Professor B: Yeah . Sheep is good .PhD C: right . Sounded good .Professor B: Yeah .PhD C: Right so um so I guess the good news is thatPostdoc G:Mm - hmm .PhD C: and {disfmarker} and again this is without a lot of the sort of bells and whistles that we c can do with the SRI system and we 'll have more data and we can also start to maybe adapt the language"}
{"doc_id":"doc_170","qid":"","text":"Lynne Neagle AM: Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee. We've received apologies for absence from Janet Finch-Saunders. I'd like to take this opportunity towelcome Suzy Davies to the committee, and to thank Mark Reckless and Darren Millar, who have left us, for their service and hard work as members of the committee. Can I ask whether there are any declarations ofinterest, please? No. Okay. We will move on then to our evidence session on our inquiry into the impact of Brexit on higher and further education. I'm very pleased to welcome Kirsty Williams, Cabinet Secretary forEducation, and Eluned Morgan AM, Minister for Welsh Language and Lifelong Learning. Can I just ask you to introduce your officials for the record, please?Kirsty Williams AM: Bore da, Lynne, and thank you for theinvitation to join you. Eluned and I are joined this morning by Huw Morris, who's the group director at SHELL—skills, higher education and lifelong learning—and Marie Knox, who is deputy director, overseeing Europeantransition.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you very much, and thank you for coming. We'll go straight into questions, then, and the first questions are from Suzy Davies.Suzy Davies AM: Thank you. I'd like to ask youboth, if that's okay, a little bit about preparedness. But if I could start with higher education, I understand that—I don't know, it must be about 18 months ago now—Ken Skates told another committee in this place thatthere had been nine sector analyses done. Presumably, one of those was HE, because of the—well, Welsh Government had a presence, and still does, in Brussels, related to higher education. Apparently, those have nowbeen superseded by work that's been done by Cardiff University. I don't know if you've got any comments on that research, or whether it's been brought to your attention yet.Kirsty Williams AM: Well, Suzy, followingthe vote, I was very keen that we work very closely with colleagues in higher education and further education, to get an understanding from on the ground about the potential impact. So, in terms of preparedness, westarted that group in the September, and that work from that group, which includes both HE and FE, has been instrumental in helping the Government form its views, which were articulated in the Government's WhitePaper, 'Securing Wales' Future'. There has been ongoing work being done—as the debate in London and Europe becomes a little bit more clear, then it becomes a little less clear, and then a little bit more clear, but,bearing in mind the difficulties of working in an ever-changing field, we have been refining those approaches. Each institution has been looking at their own institution, because, as you can imagine, although we have anoverview of the sector, the challenges are very different for individual institutions—so their exposure, for instance, to the number of European Union students that they have at their college, or the work that they mightbe doing with Horizon 2020, or their success—and there has been considerable success in the HE field in securing structural funds for various projects—the exposure and the potential impact of leaving the EU, in a 'nodeal' or in a 'deal' scenario, is very, very different. But I don't know if, Huw, you want to talk any further.Suzy Davies AM: Maybe just to use the 'no deal' scenario is probably the easiest, isn't it?Kirsty Williams AM: The'no deal'?Suzy Davies AM: Well, yes, because that's the worst-case scenario, so let's look at that one.Huw Morris: As the Cabinet Secretary mentioned, the higher education Brexit working group's been meeting sinceSeptember 2016 and has been looking at that in general. More recently, when the prospect of no deal became talked about, officials have been visiting individual institutions to talk to them about their preparedness forthat. As you'll be aware, the funding for much of the activity is secured, we believe, even under a 'no deal' scenario, until December 2020; that's a letter we had from the Chief Secretary to the Treasury. I think theresearch you're referring to may be research that Cardiff University has been doing with the Bevan Foundation and others. I know there's a report due to be launched later today. We have been doing our own researchand looking at the impact on HE, FE and apprenticeship providers.Suzy Davies AM: Well, that's really helpful because my understanding was that this Cardiff University research had superseded all those nine sectoranalyses.Huw Morris: That may be true for the economy brief. Certainly, there are published papers by Max Munday and a team at Cardiff University on the impact of Brexit on the Welsh economy, but for HE and FE andapprenticeship provision, it's as the Cabinet Secretary outlined.Suzy Davies AM: So, are there any formal risk assessments that are available for us to scrutinise, for example? For HE and FE for that matter.KirstyWilliams AM: Well, the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales have been doing some specific work; I can't comment on how wide they would want that to be shared. We have been doing some broad analysis, as Isaid, for the sector, looking at what we can do to mitigate the risk, bearing in mind that each institution is an autonomous institution, a principle that they guard really jealously, and rightly so. So, we have been, as Huwsaid, because the prospect of a 'no deal' has become, perhaps, more to the forefront, officers have been visiting each institution to try and make sure and to satisfy us, as people who fund part of their activity, that theyhave their own plans in place to deal with these scenarios. We continue to work alongside them to push the issues that we can help them with. So, for instance, we continue to work with officials in Westminster aroundErasmus+ provision in a 'no deal' scenario, what a UK stand-alone project would look like, the impacts of a 'no deal' on Horizon 2020. So, we look at the broader picture and we are encouraging continually individualinstitutions to make sure that they themselves are looking at their specific needs within that.Suzy Davies AM: Well, if there is something that's shareable, I'm sure we'd be very pleased to see it—Kirsty Williams AM:Anything that we've got—Suzy Davies AM: —particularly with FE, actually, because, of course, we haven't got a HEFCW for FE; you're doing that regulation yourself. I'd expect to see that type of work evidencedsomewhere from within Welsh Government, and we would be able to see that then.Eluned Morgan AM: So, if I could just make some points on FE. We've been actively engaging with the FE sector. We've spoken toevery one of the colleges about how they see things developing. I think it's quite a different response than what is going to be happening in HE.Suzy Davies AM: Yes, because the student thing isn't such an issue, isit?Eluned Morgan AM: You've got to remember that the FE colleges are much more anchored within their communities, they're much more localised, and so, for example, the number of EU students in these colleges issignificantly lower. The number of staff in these colleges—I think they've analysed that there are only about 71 people. So, we're keeping in touch with them and we're letting them know what we are being told in termsof the Home Office settled status and what we can do to protect those 71. But that's a much bigger issue, I think, for higher education.Suzy Davies AM: What are they telling you about European social fund funding,though, because, as you say, they're locally anchored—the impact on FE of ESF funding is probably more significant than the issues we're talking about with higher education. How are you finding this out? Is thisthrough one-to-one conversations?Eluned Morgan AM: We are engaging with them all, and, obviously, we're engaging with ColegauCymru, who've done their own analysis, and what we found, in particular, is that thereal problems are probably in relation to ESF funding and apprenticeships. But what you've got to remember is that that link between apprenticeships and the local work community is absolutely crucial. So, if—SuzyDavies AM: Yes, that's why I asked.Eluned Morgan AM: —the economy nosedives, or if there's an issue that we see—just the dislocation of companies in those areas as a result of Brexit—then that will inevitably have animpact on the number of apprenticeships that will be on offer. So, it's those kinds of things, but at the moment I think it's worth pointing out that about £15 million a year goes into the FE sector just in relation toapprenticeships.Suzy Davies AM: Can I just come back finally on that, before handing over? In both your areas of responsibility, there's going to be an impact on Welsh Government in how it responds to that, as well.Can you tell me a little bit about the European transition team, which I think is about building resilience within the Welsh Government to deal with the impacts of Brexit? Is that a formal arrangement you have withofficials? I don't really know much about this team, but it seems to meet fortnightly to get Welsh Government ready for Brexit, so could you just give us some clues on this?Marie Knox: Yes, in terms of the Europeantransition team, that's the central co-ordinating group that pulls together all the leads in each department who are pulling together the work on European transition. So, I attend that group in relation to higher educationand further education, and, obviously, other representatives in terms of agriculture, transport, the economy, et cetera.Suzy Davies AM: It's great that you're on that group, but what does it actually do? That's the bit Iwasn't sure about.Marie Knox: I guess it provides the governance structure for the Welsh Government as a whole in relation to European transition. So, individual departments do their own work, and the Europeantransition team provides the governance structure, and, also, they lead on the discussions with the Department for Exiting the European Union, No. 10, the Joint Ministerial Committee—those kinds of ministerialarrangements.Suzy Davies AM: Thank you. I've had enough time, I think.Lynne Neagle AM: Llyr.Llyr Gruffydd AM: I'll ask my questions in Welsh, if I may. This discussion between HEFCW and higher education, thesechallenges in terms of how ready they are for the changes to come, and the work that the Government is doing with FE, I suspect, is happening at an organisational level. So, I just want to hear a little about where thestudent voice comes into that discussion and where the engagement happens in terms of the students.Kirsty Williams AM: So, we have a close working relationship with the National Union of Students. I meet with themregularly, and officials are in constant touch with the student voice. They have been very clear, and I think there is a huge amount of consensus between the Welsh Government, what the universities are asking for andwhat the students are asking for. You'll have seen, only earlier this week, the very powerful campaign by NUS Wales about the importance of Erasmus+ arrangements. There is a huge amount to be gained for Welshstudents and young people participating in the Erasmus programme. Many of us, I know, have had the opportunity to study abroad as part of our own studies, and there's a lot to be gained from it. We've been veryclear from the outset, as have the sector and the student voice, about the importance of participation in that scheme.  NUS are also very concerned that there should be no negative impact on the quality of faculty. OurHE institutions, to a greater extent than FE, have faculty staff from the EU—it runs at about 11 per cent. That adds great diversity and strength to the quality of teaching within our institutions. Clearly, that is a concernfor students. They want to have the best teachers, they want access to the best learning opportunities, and we've been very clear about the importance of providing security and stability for those staff, making sure wesend very clear messages that they're very welcome and we value their contribution. NUS, again, also value the diversity in the student population. Again, as far as we've been able to, we've been able to give messagesabout the security of funding for European students for the next academic year. I wish I could go further, but that's out of my hands. We're working to the limits of what I feel comfortable in being able to guaranteewithout further guarantees from Westminster. So, we've been working closely with the student voice, and I think, Llyr, what's very clear is there is a consensus about what is important across the Government, theinstitutions and student voice. So, that is making sure we send very clear messages about Wales's institutions being open for business and that we welcome both EU and international students, that we value thecontribution of faculty, and that we want to be able to continue in Horizon 2020. That's especially important if we're looking at attracting postgraduate work and postgraduate students into our system, as well asErasmus+. The issue of post-study work visas, again, is very important. As I said, there's a consensus, I think, between the Government, the institutions and the students about what we need the UK Government toachieve for us.Lynne Neagle AM: Before we move on to student recruitment, it's increasingly the view of many experts that we're heading for a 'no deal' Brexit. Can I ask both of you what specific plans you've put inplace in the event of such a 'no deal' Brexit happening and us crashing out next spring?Eluned Morgan AM: Well, I think it's really difficult for us to prepare for a 'no deal' Brexit, but obviously we need to think throughvery carefully what that might look like, and I think that scenario planning is starting to happen. I think it's very different, again, for FE compared to HE. So, in relation to FE, what we do have is funding—ESFfunding—which the UK Government has said that they will underwrite until 2020. So, in March next year, if there is no deal, the immediate impact on FE is unlikely to hit in the way that we may have feared. Theproblem then becomes: what exactly is the deal with the EU in future, because we will have some kind of relationship, and what that impact will be on the broader economy and our ability to work with companieslocally, and industries, to provide that link between training needs? So, the colleges, basically, are providing the training for lots of the apprenticeships, and so if the number of companies reduces, then that is likely tohave an impact. So, there are specific sectors that we are more concerned about than others. Farming is obviously one that we are concerned about, because that could have a difference in terms of day one of no deal.If your markets are not there, that could be quite an immediate impact. Health and social care—obviously, we are concerned that there are a number of people who work in that sector who are EU citizens. What is theimpact? Are they going to feel unwelcome? Are they likely, then, to return home? Where will that skills gap, therefore, be? So, that's a problem for us. Construction is already an issue for us in terms of skills shortages.So, one of the things we're doing is we've developed these regional skills partnerships where we ask local employers, 'What is it that you need in terms of skills development?' and we are now asking further educationcolleges to respond to that need. So, rather than them just getting people through the college system, who are easy to get in because they're doing courses that they're excited about, let's try and encourage them to docourses where we know there are skills shortages. So, that is a new structure that we've developed that is already having an impact; there's a £10 million project there. So, we're already putting things in place for thosesituations. In manufacturing, obviously, if there's no deal, the rules of origin, that could have an immediate impact. Just-in-time—we could have real problems in terms of dislocation there; and hospitality and tourism.So, those are the sectors we have most concerns about, and all of them have very strong links to the FE sector.Kirsty Williams AM: From the HE perspective, from a point of principle, we just have to keep workingtowards some kind of deal. Although the prospect of no deal, maybe, has risen up the agenda, we have got to be consistent in our messages to the Westminster Government: we need a deal. Wales cannot afford tocrash out of the EU without a deal. If that worst-case scenario was to happen, because of the underwrite guarantee, actually, for European regional development fund and European social fund programmes in the HEsector, it would be business as usual. And because of the current underwrite guarantee, the forthcoming bids for Erasmus and Horizon 2020 would be covered, but they would be the last applications that could be made.You'll be aware that there are some proposals for an extension to that guarantee, but from my understanding and our understanding of it, that would only give us third-country status for Horizon 2020 and Erasmus.What that does mean is that we would have limited access to the Horizon 2020 programme, and if you look at the activity that is currently being undertaken by the Welsh HE sector under that programme, that wouldmean that we'd probably lose about 50 per cent of that work, because that's the split between the bits we would still be able to access and what we are currently accessing. As I've already said, we have made aguarantee for EU student support for the next academic year, but, without clarity from the Treasury, I don't think it would be prudent of me to commit Welsh Government to anything further than that. So, we continueto push the message that a 'no deal' would be catastrophic. What can we do? You'll be aware that we have been working with Universities Wales to access resources under the European transition fund, under the GlobalWales programme, to look to boost international marketing of the HE sector and to talk about the strengths that we have in the sector. And we continue to look at other opportunities within the EU transition pot ofmoney to assist the universities and the FE sector in that regard. We also continue to look to respond to the Reid review proposals, about how we can beef up our own research and continue to engage with UK Researchand Innovation to make sure that, with any research money that comes out of that negotiation, Wales is in a competitive position to be able to bid successfully for that.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. We're going tomove on, then, to talk about student recruitment. I'm going to, because we've got a lot of questions, appeal for brief questions and answers that are as concise as possible, please. Hefin.Hefin David AM: How does theWelsh Government account for the fact that EU student applications in Wales this year—that Wales is the only country in the UK to have seen a significant drop?Kirsty Williams AM: Okay, well, I think the first thing toremember is that we will not get a full picture of student recruitment until, first of all, November and then the true picture, because some institutions, as you would know, have two admissions dates—we won't get thefull picture until the spring. I think it was inevitable, given the change in Government policy with regard to student support, which had previously allowed European students to benefit from a tuition fee grant, and giventhe fact that that option is no longer available to them, that that has had an impact on EU recruitment, and there's no point trying to hide from that.Hefin David AM: So, together with leaving the EU, that's adouble-whammy effect that's hitting Wales harder than the rest of the UK.Kirsty Williams AM: It just puts us in the same position as EU students applying to England, but it was inevitable. This was looked at byDiamond. It was anticipated that this could be a consequence of the change in policy, and I think we see that reflected in the initial figure, although, as I said, we won't get the true picture until the first census inNovember, and then, ultimately, the final picture in the spring.Hefin David AM: How concerned are you by that?Kirsty Williams AM: Clearly, we want our universities to be able to attract students from both the EU andfrom around the world. The fact that the tuition fee grant arrangements may have had an impact on European Union students at this stage does not preclude the fact that Wales, up until now, has been successful inrecruiting international students. So, the change in the fee regime should not be a barrier to the recruitment of international students, because, actually, international students outside of the EU make up a biggerproportion of students not from the UK who come to our institutions.Hefin David AM: That's a fair point, but it's unfortunate timing, though, isn't it?Kirsty Williams AM: I think, from a public policy point of view andmoving towards a sustainable way of funding our HE sector, then both my priority and, I would say, the priority of the institutions was to see the implementation of Diamond, which is what we have done.Hefin David"}
{"doc_id":"doc_171","qid":"","text":"Grad B: Grad D: How many batteries do you go through ?Grad B: Thank you .Professor C: Alright .PhD A: Sure .Professor C: Good . Yeah . OK so , let 's get started . Nancy said she 's coming and that means she will be. Um . My suggestion is that Robert and Johno sort of give us a report on last week 's adventures uh to start . So everybody knows there were these guys f uh from Heidelber - uh , uh , actually from uh DFKI uh , part ofthe German SmartKom project , who were here for the week and , I think got a lot done .Grad E: Yeah , I think so too . Um . The {disfmarker} we got to the point where we can now speak into the SmartKom system ,and it 'll go all the way through and then say something like \" Roman numeral one , am Smarticus . \" It actually says , \" Roemisch einz , am Smarticus , \"Grad B: OK .Grad E: which means it 's just using a Germansythesis module for English sentences .Grad B: OK .Grad E: So uh ,Professor C: It doesn't know \" I \" .Grad B: OK .Grad E: Um , the uhGrad B: Oh , Am Spartacus . \"Grad D: \" I am Sm - I am Smarticus \" is what it 'ssaying .PhD A: Right .Grad B: Verstehe . OK .Grad D: I gueGrad E: The uh sythesis is just a question of um , hopefully it 's just a question of exchanging a couple of files , once we have them . And , um , it 's not goingto be a problem because we decided to stick to the so - called concept to speech approach . So I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm going backwards now , so \" synthesis \" is where you sort of make this{disfmarker} uh , make these sounds , and \" concept to speech \" is feeding into this synthesis module giving it what needs to be said , and the whole syntactic structure so it can pronounce things better , presumably .Then , just with text to speech .Grad B: Mm - hmm .Grad E: And , uh , Johno learned how to write XML tags . Uh , and did write the tree adjoining grammar for some {disfmarker} some sentences . No , right ?Grad D:Yeah .Grad E: Yeah , for a couple {disfmarker}Grad D: So . Bu - Uh , i The way the uh , the dialogue manager works is it dumps out what it wants to know , or what it wants to tell the person , to a {disfmarker} er inXML and there 's a conversion system for different uh , to go from XML to something else . And th so , the knowledge base for the system , that generates the syntasti syntactic structures for the ge generation is uh , ina LISP - like {disfmarker} the knowledge base is in a LISP - like form . And then the thing that actually builds these syntactic structures is something based on Prolog . So , you have a {disfmarker} basically , a goal andit , you know , says \" OK , well I 'm gonna try to do the Greet - the - person goal ,Grad B: Mm - hmm .Grad D: so it just starts {disfmarker} uh , it binds some variables and it just decides to , you know , do somesubscold . Basically , it just means \" build the tree . \"Grad B: OK .Grad D: And then it passes the tree onto , uh , the ge the generation module .Grad E: But I think that the point is that out of the twelve possibleutterances that the German system can do , we 've already written the {disfmarker} the syntax trees for three or four .Grad D: We yeah . So , the syntax trees are very simple . It 's like most of the sentences in onetree ,Grad B: Mm - hmm .Grad D: and instead of , you know , breaking down to , like , small units and building back up , they basically took the sentences , and basically cut them in half , or you know , into thirds orsomething like that , and made trees out of those . And so uh , uh Tilman wrote a little tool that you could take LISP notation and generate an XML , uh , tree . Uh , S what do ca structure from the {disfmarker} fromthe LISP . And so basically you just say , you know , \" noun goes to \" , you know , Er , nah , I don't re I 've never been good at those . So there 's like the VP goes to N and those things in LISP , and it will generate foryou .Grad B: OK . N , N , V yeah , OK . Alright .Grad E: And because we 're sticking to that structure , the synthesis module doesn't need to be changed . So all that f fancy stuff , and the Texas speech version of it ,which is actually the simpler version , is gonna be done in October which is much too late for us . So . This way we {disfmarker} we worked around that . The , uh {disfmarker} the system , um {disfmarker} I can showyou the system . I actually want , at least , maybe , you should be able to start it on your own . If you wanna play around with it , in th in the future . Right now it 's brittle and you need to ch start it up and then makets twenty changes on {disfmarker} on {disfmarker} on {disfmarker} on seventeen modules before they actually can stomach it , anything . And send in a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a couple of side queries on somedummy center set - up program so that it actually works because it 's designed for this seevit thing , where you have the gestural recognition running with this s Siemens virtual touch screen , which we don't have here.Grad B: Mm - hmm .Grad E: And so we 're doing it via mouse , but the whole system was designed to work with this thing and it was {disfmarker} It was a lot of engineering stuff . No science in there whatsoever , butit 's working now , and um , that 's the good news . So everything else actually did prove to be language independent except for the parsing and the generation .Grad D: Why {disfmarker} I had {disfmarker} I did needto chan generate different trees than the German ones , mainly because you know like uh , the gerund in {disfmarker} in German is automatically taken care of with just a regular verb ,Grad E: You have to switch it on.Grad B: Mm - hmm .Grad D: so I 'd uh have to add \" am walking , \"Grad B: OK .Grad D: or I 'd have to add a little stem for the \" am \" , when I build the {disfmarker} built the tree .Grad B: OK . Yeah , I noticed thatum , that some of the examples they had , had you know , non - English word orders and so on , you know . And then all that good stuff . So .Professor C: Alright .Grad D: Yeah .Grad B: Like .Professor C: So it might beworth , Keith , you looking at this ,Grad B: Yeah .Professor C: umGrad B: I {disfmarker} I still don't {disfmarker} I still don't really understand e like {disfmarker}Grad D: Well Tilman sGrad B: I mean we sort of say ,um {disfmarker} You know , I {disfmarker} I still don't exactly understand sort of the information flow uh in {disfmarker} in this thing , or what the modules are and so on . So , you know , like just that such - and -such module uh um decides that it wants to achieve the goal of greeting the user , and then magically it sort of sProfessor C: Yeah {disfmarker}Grad B: I mean , how does it know which syntactic structure to pull out ,and all that ?Professor C: I thi Yeah . So . I think it 's not worth going over in the group ,Grad B: R uh Sure .Professor C: but sort of when you get free and you have the time uh either Robert or Johno or I can walk youthrough it .Grad B: Yeah , soon . OK .Professor C: And you can ask all the questions about how this all fits together .Grad B: That 's fine .Professor C: It 's eee {comment} messy but once you understand it youunderstand it . It 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} There 's nothing really complicated about it .Grad B: OK .Grad E: No .Grad B: And I remember one thing that {disfmarker} that came up in the talk last Wednesday .Um , was this , I {disfmarker} I think he talked about the idea of like , um {disfmarker} He was talking about these lexicalized uh , uh , tree adjoining grammars where you sort of {disfmarker} for each word you , um{disfmarker}Grad D: OK , you know how to do it ?Grad B: For each lexical item , the lexical entry says what all the uh trees are that it can appear in . And of course , that 's not v That 's the opposite of constructional .That 's , you know , that 's {disfmarker} that 's HPSG or whatever .Professor C: Right .Grad B: You know ?Professor C: Right . Now , we 're {disfmarker} we 're not committed for our research to {pause} do any ofthose things .Grad B: Yeah . Mm - hmm .Professor C: So uh we are committed for our funding .Grad B: Right .Professor C: OK ? to {pause} uh {disfmarker}Grad B: Make our stuff fit to that .Professor C: Yeah , to{disfmarker} n no , to just get the dem get the demos they need .Grad B: Uh - huh .Professor C: OK ? So between us all we have t to get th the demos they need . If it turns out we can also give them lots more thanthat by , you know , tapping into other things we do , that 's great .Grad D: You should probably move the microphone closer to your face .Grad B: Mm - hmm .Professor C: But i it turns out not to be in an any of thecontractsGrad D: There 's like a little {disfmarker} The twisty thing , you can move it with .Grad B: OK .Professor C: and , s deliberately . So , the reason I 'd like you to understand uh what 's going on in this demosystem is not because it 's important to the research . It 's just for closure . So that if we come up with a question of \" could we fit this deeper stuff in there ? \" or something . You know what the hell we we 're talkingabout fitting in .Grad B: Right . OK .Professor C: So it 's just , uh in the sam same actually with the rest of us we just need to really understand what 's there . Is there anything we can make use of ? Uh , is thereanything we can give back , beyond th the sort of minimum requirements ? But none of that has a short time fuse .Grad B: OK .Professor C: So th the demo the demo requirements for this Fall are sort of taken care ofas of later this week or something . And then {disfmarker} So , it 's probably fifteen months or something until there 's another serious demo requirement .Grad B: Oh OK .Professor C: That doesn't mean we don't thinkabout it for fifteen months ,Grad B: Right .Professor C: but it means we can not think about it for six months .Grad B: Right , yeah .Professor C: So . The plan for this summer uh , really is to step back from the appliedproject ,Grad E: Right .Professor C: keep the d keep the context open , but actually go after the basic issues .Grad B: Hmm . Oh OK .Professor C: And , so The idea is there 's this uh , other subgroup that 's worryingabout formalizing the nota getting a notation . But sort of in parallel with that , uh , the hope is tha in particularly you will work on constructions in English Ge - and German for this domain ,Grad B: Mm - hmm.Professor C: but y not worry about parsing them or fitting them into SmartKom or any of the other {disfmarker} anything lik any other constraints for the time being .Grad B: Yeah . OK . Got it .Professor C: It 's hardenough to get it semantically and syntactically right and then {disfmarker} and get the constructions in their form and stuff .Grad B: Yeah .Professor C: And , I don I don't want you f feeling that you have to somehowmeet all these other constraints .Grad B: Right , OK .Professor C: Um . And similarly with the parsing , uh we 're gonna worry about parsing uh , the general case you know , construction parser for general constructions. And , if we need a cut - down version for something , or whatever , we 'll worry about that later .Grad B: OK .Professor C: So I 'd like to , for the summer turn into science mode .Grad B: OK .Professor C: And I assumethat 's also , uh , your plan as well .Grad B: So I mean , the {disfmarker} the point is that like the meetings um so far that I 've been at have been {disfmarker} sort of been geared towards this demo ,Professor C:Right . Yeah . Yeah .Grad B: and then that 's going to go away pretty soon .Professor C: But {disfmarker} but we we 're switGrad B: OK .Professor C: Right .Grad B: And then we 'll sort of shift gears a Fairlysubstantially ,Professor C: Yeah .Grad E: It 's {disfmarker}Professor C: Yeah .Grad B: huh ?Professor C: Yeah .Grad E: It 's got . What I {disfmarker} what I think is {disfmarker} is a good idea that I can {disfmarker}can show to anyone who 's interested , we can even make a {disfmarker} sort of an internal demo , and I {disfmarker} I show you what I do ,Grad B: Mm - hmm .Grad E: I speak into it and you hear it talk ,Grad B: OK.Grad E: and I can sort of walk f through the information . So , this is like in half hour or forty - five minutes . Just fun .Grad B: OK .Grad E: And so you {disfmarker} when somebody on the streets com comes up to youand asks you what is SmartKom so you can , sort of , give a sensible answer .Grad B: Right . OK .Professor C: So , c sh we could set that up as actually an institute wide thing ? Just give a talk in the big room , and{disfmarker} and so peo people know what 's going on ? when you 're ready ?Grad E: Absolutely .Professor C: Yeah I mean , that 's the kind of thing {disfmarker} That 's the level at which you know we can just li inviteeverybody and say \" this is a project that we 've been working on and here 's a demo version of it \" and stuff like that .Grad B: Yeah .Grad E: OK . Well d we {disfmarker} we do wanna have all the bugs out b where youhave to sort of pipe in extra XML messages from left and right before you 're {disfmarker}Grad B: Uh - huh .Professor C: Indeed .Grad E: Yeah . OK . Makes sense .Professor C: But any so that {disfmarker} e e It 'sclear , then , I think . Actually , roughly starting uh let 's say , nex next meeting , cuz this meeting we have one other thing to tie up besides the trip report .Grad B: Yeah . OK .Professor C: But uh starting next meetingI think we want to flip into this mode where {disfmarker} Uh . I mean there are a lot of issues , what 's the ontology look like ,Grad B: Mm - hmm .Professor C: you know what do the constructions look like , what 's theexecution engine look like , mmm lots of things .Grad B: Mm - hmm .Professor C: But , more focused on uh an idealized version than just getting the demo out . Now before we do that , let 's get back in {disfmarker}Oh ! But , it 's still , I think , useful for you to understand the demo version enough , so that you can {disfmarker} can see what {disfmarker} what it is that {disfmarker} that uh it might eventually get retro - fitted intoor something .Grad B: Yeah . OK , right .Professor C: And Johno 's already done that , uh , looked at the dem uh the {disfmarker} looked at the SmartKom stuff .Grad D: Wa uh {disfmarker} To some de uh what{disfmarker} what part of th the SmartKom stuff ?Professor C: Well , the parser , and that stuff .Grad D: Oh yeah {disfmarker} yeah .Professor C: OK . Anyway . So , the trip {disfmarker} the report on these{disfmarker} the last we we sort of interrupted you guys telling us about what happened last week .Grad B: Yeah . It 's alright .Grad E: Um . {vocalsound} Well it was just amazing to {disfmarker} to see uh how{disfmarker} how instable the whole thing is ,Professor C: Maybe you 're done , then .Grad E: and if you just take the {disfmarker} And I g I got the feeling that we are {pause} the only ones right now who have arunning system . I don't know what the guys in Kaiserslautern have running because e the version {disfmarker} that is , the full version that 's on the server d does not work . And you need to do a lot of stuff to make itwork . And so it 's {disfmarker} And even Tilman and Ralf sort of said \" yeah there never was a really working version that uh did it without th all the shortcuts that they built in for the uh October @ @ version \" . So we're actually maybe ahead of the System Gruppe by now , the system {disfmarker} the integration group . And it was , uh {disfmarker} It was fun to some extent , but the uh the outcome that is sort of of scientificinterest is that I think both Ralf and Tilman {disfmarker} um , I know that they enjoyed it here , and they r they {disfmarker} they liked , uh , a lot of the stuff they saw here , what {disfmarker} what we have beenthinking about , and they 're more than willing to {disfmarker} to um , cooperate , by all means . And um , part of my responsibility is uh to use our internal \" group - ware \" server at EML , make that open to all of usand them , so that whatever we discuss in terms of parsing and {disfmarker} and generating and constructions w we {disfmarker} we sort of uh put it in there and they put what they do in there and maybe we caneven um , get some overlap , get some synergy out of that . And um , the , uh {disfmarker} If I find someone at {disfmarker} in EML that is interested in that , um I {disfmarker} I may even think that we could look{disfmarker} take constructions and {disfmarker} and generate from them because the tree adjoining grammars that {disfmarker} that Tilman is using is as you said nothing but a mathematical formalism . And youcan just do anything with it , whether it 's syntactic trees , H P S G - like stuff , or whether it 's construction . So if you ever get to the generation side of constructing things and there might be something of interestthere , but in the moment we 're of course definitely focused on the understanding , um , pipeline .Professor C: Anyth - any other {vocalsound} {comment} uh repo visit reports sort of stories ? uh we {disfmarker} sowe now know I think , what the landscape is like .Grad B: Mm - hmm .Professor C: And so we just push on and {disfmarker} and uh , do what we need to do . And one of the things we need to do is the um , and this Ithink is relatively tight {disfmarker} tightly constrained , is to finish up this belief - net stuff . So . Uh . And I was going to switch to start talking about that unless there 're m other more general questions . OK so here's where we are on the belief - net stuff as far as I understand it . Um . Going back I guess two weeks ago uh Robert had laid out this belief - net , missing only the connections . Right ? That is {disfmarker} {comment}So , he 'd put all th all the dots down , and we went through this , and , I think , more or less convinced ourselves that at least the vast majority of the nodes that we needed for the demo level we were thinking of ,were in there . Yeah {comment} we may run across one or two more . But of course the connections weren't . So , uh Bhaskara and I went off and looked at some technical questions about were certain operations sortof legitimate belief - net computations and was there some known problem with them or had someone already uh , solved you know how to do this and stuff . And so Bhaskara tracked that down . The answer seems tobe uh , \" no , no one has done it , but yes it 's a perfectly reasonable thing to do if that 's what you set out to do \" . And , so the current state of things is that , again , starting now , um we 'd like to actually get arunning belief - net for this particular subdomain done in the next few weeks . So Bhaskara is switching projects as of the first of June , and uh , he 's gonna leave us an inheritance , which is a uh {disfmarker} hopefullya belief - net that does these things . And there 're two aspects to it , one of which is , you know , technical , getting the coding right , and making it run , and uh stuff like that . And the other is the actual semantics .OK ? What all {disfmarker} you know , what are the considerations and how and what are the ways in which they relate . So he doe h he doesn't need help from this group on the technical aspects or if he does uh we 'lldo that separately .Grad B: Mm - hmm .Professor C: But in terms of what are the decisions and stuff like that , that 's something that we all have to work out . Is {disfmarker} is that right ? I mean that 's {disfmarker}that 's both you guys ' understanding of where we are ?Grad E: Absolutely .Professor C: OK .Grad G: So , I guess , um {disfmarker} Is there like a latest version of the belief - net {disfmarker} of the proposed belief -net ? Like {disfmarker}Grad E: We had um decided {disfmarker}Grad G: like {disfmarker}Grad E: Um . Well , no , we didn't decide . We wanted to look into maybe getting it , the visualization , a bit clearer , but I thinkif we do it , um , sort of a paper version of all the nodes and then the connections between them , that should suffice .Grad G: Mm - hmm . Yeah , that should be fine .Professor C: Yeah I mean , that 's a separateproblem .Grad D: Yeah , I {disfmarker}Professor C: We do in the long run wanna do better visualization and all that stuff .Grad E: Yeah .Professor C: That 's separable , yeah .Grad D: I did look into that , uh in terms of, you know , exploding the nodes out and down agProfessor C: Yep . Right .Grad D: JavaBayes does not support that . I can imagine a way of hacking at the code to do that . It 'd probably take two weeks or so toactually go through and do it ,Professor C: Not {disfmarker} not at this point .Grad D: and I went through all the other packages on Murph - Kevin Murphy 's page ,Professor C: Right .Grad D: and I couldn't find thenecessary mix of free and uh with the GUI and , with this thing that we want .Professor C: Well , we can p If it 's {disfmarker} If we can pay {disfmarker} Yeah . If you know it 's paying a thousand dollars or somethingwe can do that . OK ? So {disfmarker} so don't view free as {disfmarker} as a absolute constraint .Grad D: OK . OK , so then I 'll go back and look at the ones on the list that {disfmarker}Professor C: OK . And you canask Kevin .Grad E: But {disfmarker}Grad G: Yeah .Grad D: Mmm .Grad E: But {disfmarker}Grad G: Yeah , the one that uh people seem to use is uh Hugin or whatever ?Professor C: Hugin , yeah that 's free .Grad G:"}
{"doc_id":"doc_172","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: Okay everyone's ready .User Interface: Hello .ProjectManager: So we are here for uh for uh functional design .User Interface: {gap}Project Manager: Okay ? So we are here for the functional design meeting mm {vocalsound} so first I will show the agenda so we will uh Iwill take notes during this meeting so I will try to summarise it and put that summary in the shared folder if you want to look at it afterwardsUser Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: so then uh each of you will uhlead a presentation on the task that has been required last time so user requirement specification , technical function design and working design . Then I will uh present you some new project requirements I receivedfrom uh the management board . Then we will take uh the decision on on the remote control uh needed functions and then I will assign you the task for the next part of the meeting . Of the {disfmarker} of the process .So uh who want to start the the presentation of what they did ?Industrial Designer: F do you want to start ?User Interface: Make a start yeah .Project Manager: You can start .User Interface: So . {vocalsound}ProjectManager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Cable , camera .Project Manager: You have uh PowerPoint ?User Interface: Should be in my {disfmarker} in their folder no ?Project Manager: Ah yeah maybe there . Okay .UserInterface: Up .Project Manager: Who are you ? {vocalsound}User Interface: Um at three I think .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: No ? {vocalsound} Mm .Project Manager: Ouch . And {disfmarker}UserInterface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay . {vocalsound}Project Manager: We have a technical problem uh .User Interface: Do we think w s in the {disfmarker} in the wrong folder maybe ? {vocalsound} It ispossible .Project Manager: You put it on {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: No .User Interface: It was somewhere in something like this . I don't remember the name actually must be something like messenger AMI orsomething .Industrial Designer: What do you have in short cut ?User Interface: Go up .Industrial Designer: Participant two .User Interface: Yeah go up .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Again . No . Go back.Project Manager: You have no {disfmarker}User Interface: Uh maybe messenger AMI . Messenger .Project Manager: Over . Okay .User Interface: No . There is nothing .Project Manager: There's no {disfmarker} Wehave a technical problem .User Interface: Let's go and check .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: I'll go and check .Industrial Designer: Otherwise , could you just describe by hand ?User Interface: Okay.Industrial Designer: With the the whiteboard ?Project Manager: If you remember yeahUser Interface: Yeah . Yeah .Project Manager: but that's {disfmarker}User Interface: So uh . Basically {vocalsound} what we wanthere is a remote control right .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound} So um the question well first of all what to control . So {vocalsound} most people want to have a a remote for their hi-fi and T_V_and stuff like that .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .User Interface: And {disfmarker} but other people want th also remotes for {vocalsound} controlling uh and toys like robotic pets and little robots and stuffIndustrialDesigner: Mm-hmm .User Interface: and other people also want to have remotes for controlling um whole house .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Yeah , so there's a project I thinkcalled X_ house or something like that that does that , uh you can integrate your remote with uh computers stuff . So {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .User Interface: there is one {disfmarker} that is onething . The other is the the finder feature yeah by whistling or whatever . Uh if you have the finder feature then you can also haveIndustrial Designer: Okay .User Interface: uh at the same time as {disfmarker} andgeneral voice commands if you want yeah . {vocalsound} So I think it should be a package in that case .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Uh so the user interface will consist of two parts . {vocalsound}One is the voice command part and on one is the actual buttons part . {vocalsound} Uh and th the buttons part would be uh a set of buttons for choosing devices , a set of buttons for special navigation in space,Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .User Interface: a set of buttons for {vocalsound} linear access of medium and a set of buttons for random access .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Yeah ?IndustrialDesigner: What do you mean by linear access then ?User Interface: Like a video tape goes forward , backwards , uh fast and stuff yeah .Industrial Designer: Ah .Project Manager: Okay so special navigation , linearaccess , random accessUser Interface: Um .Project Manager: and there's a fourth one no ?User Interface: Mm ?Project Manager: So the better now for special navigation ?User Interface: Yeah . For special navigation forexample you might have a T_V_ in the menu and you going to change yeah ?Project Manager: Okay . Then linear accessUser Interface: Uh .Project Manager: then random access .User Interface: Mm . Yeah and alsoparameter changing .Project Manager: Ah yeah parameter okay .User Interface: {vocalsound} So if there are common parameters maybe we should put special buttons for that umProject Manager: Okay .UserInterface: or maybe we could have everything uh generic but uh there are a lot of uh remotes on the market right now and {vocalsound} basically this is most of the {disfmarker} almost everybody has this stuff.Project Manager: Okay . Okay and and voice command did you uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Voice command w we could specify anything . We could assign any button {disfmarker} a command to any button , if wehave enough processing power ,Project Manager: Okay . Okay .User Interface: I guess so . {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: So that's uh that close your investigations?User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Uh yeah I think so .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Not so far .Project Manager: Maybe we can have a look at the user requirements with{disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah . {vocalsound} Um I dunno if you can open the {disfmarker}Project Manager: I dunno if I can open it . Maybe you can sMarketing: uh m is not here .Project Manager: It's{disfmarker}Marketing: Uh in {disfmarker} yeah okay .Project Manager: Messenger no ?Marketing: No . In document {gap} . Mm computer yeah .Project Manager: In which folder ?User Interface: Where did you put it?Marketing: Here . Here .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Short-cut to AMI shared folder ?User Interface: {gap} mm .Marketing: But it's not {disfmarker} Um .Project Manager: Maybe you can send it to me by email .Just to participant one . At AMI .Marketing: Mm-hmm . Yeah , I can do that .Project Manager: I will try to show it to everyone , that would be more comfortable .Marketing: Okay . Um .Project Manager: You send it?Marketing: {vocalsound} It's participant one ?Project Manager: Yeah . Uh this is this email .User Interface: I'm designing the user interface . {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay . You can uh .Project Manager: Okay . Somaybe I can switch slides when you {disfmarker} whenever you ask ,Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: that will be more convenient . So okay , functional requirements .Marketing: Okay so you can {disfmarker} youcan go . Okay so {vocalsound} in our usability lab we observed the remote control use among one hundred subjectsProject Manager: Mm .Marketing: and the subjects also filled a questionnaireProject Manager: Yeah.Marketing: okay ? And here I have the results so you can see that um seventy five per cent of users find most remote controls ugly so we have to find something to make them more {vocalsound} more nice , morekind . Eighty per cents of users would spend more money when the remote control would look fancy . {vocalsound} Eighty hundred per cent of users would spend more money when the remote control would look{disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: oh {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} it's not good . {vocalsound} So okay .Project Manager: We can just keep doing that ?Marketing: Soit's not in theory {disfmarker} but I I can I can say yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Fifty f uh seventy five per cent of users say they s zap a lot . So mm {vocalsound} we have to have a remotecontrol uh very um {vocalsound} out for that . {vocalsound} Uh the buttons have {disfmarker} are to be um uh uh like you say resist resisting to to shocks .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound} Um andfifty per cents of users say they only use uh {vocalsound} ten per cents of but of the buttons in the {disfmarker} in the remote control .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: So all thebuttons we we have to put are {disfmarker} have to to have um a use a real useProject Manager: Okay .Marketing: and not only or {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay , so fewer buttons maybe would be good?Marketing: Yeah . F not many buttons , and uh and uh uh u useable buttons {vocalsound} .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: But what kind of remote controls did you look at ?Marketing: Sorry ?User Interface:What kind of task was it ? It was a T_V_ ?Marketing: Yeah . Uh {vocalsound} most for most is T_V_ .Project Manager: Yeah . Yeah but in fact we {disfmarker} it it seems that we are going to make a T_V_ remotecontrol according to new requirements I received from the managementUser Interface: Huh .Project Manager: bo I will present them in the following .User Interface: Uh-huh . Ah ! Good .Marketing: {vocalsound} 'Kayyou can go so .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: So there are other frustrations expressed by users , so they said uh they lost uh often the remote control in in the room so they want to have a way to {vocalsound}toProject Manager: Yeah . To find it .Marketing: to find it .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Um and um lot of the time they {disfmarker} it takes too much time to learn how to use a new remote control .ProjectManager: Yeah .Marketing: So they want something s really very simple and uh easy to use .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: And uh remote controls are bad forProject Manager: Whatis her other side ?Marketing: R_S_I_ {vocalsound} um {disfmarker}User Interface: Other side yeah , yo wa your wristMarketing: I dunno .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: It i can become painful you canhave tendonditis .Project Manager: Oh yeah ?User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: I did not knew that .User Interface: If you also {gap} up on a computer in a strange position .Project Manager: Okay so you{disfmarker} we have to make it uh more ergonomic yeah .User Interface: Ergonomic . But uh {vocalsound} .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: Have to say ha ha . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} It's yourjob {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Uh .Project Manager: Uh sorry {vocalsound} got a message from Microsoft . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay um before that I I have some some {vocalsound} some thing {vocalsound} uh to say before um {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah . Yeah yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound}We know that uh the user use uh a lot their um remote control um to to change channel .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound} Um and um to to change uh volume selection of the {disfmarker}ProjectManager: Okay .Marketing: and uh and not uh a lot for setting {disfmarker} for setting the the channels and uh thing things like that .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Okay .UserInterface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: So it's better to put uh uh uh something very easy to set and uh and {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah . This function should be very uh accessible .Marketing: Very accessible yes.Project Manager: Yeah , okay . This is the main function okay .Marketing: That's right . {vocalsound} So then we asked some questions to themProject Manager: Yeah .Marketing: and um we asked this question if theyprefer an L_C_D_ screen or on their remultific function remotes controlProject Manager: Yeah .Marketing: and if they mm pay more for speech recognition in remote controlProject Manager: Yeah .Marketing: and youcan go {vocalsound} we have here the results ofUser Interface: The first question .Marketing: of the questions . So you know that umProject Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} for the younger it's veryimportantProject Manager: To have L_C_D_ and voice .Marketing: to have the s yes and speech recognition . And uh and the others is not so important but uh we know that uh uh people between fifteen and twenty fiveare people who watch a lot T_V_ and uh who who wh can use a lot this uh .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: So maybe we we can have a speech recognition in .Project Manager: Yeah maybe this this is important.Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Moreover th maybe those uh like those teenager customer could advice their parents to buy this equipment and so we can {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: wehave to take care of that point of view I think or so .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Okay and if there is th the conclusion now . So as we say before , I think uh um a remote control lightening in thedark it's it's a good thing .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Uh not to many mud buttons like we we said before ,Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: e easy to use uh a way to find it easily in the room and uh uhresistant to to shock and to to {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound} An I s no , yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay these are the user requiMarketing:{vocalsound} I dunno if you see something else important or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I'm just thinking of some thing .Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: Um {disfmarker} We want to have a {disfmarker} no , I don't know if this is a good idea . We want to have a a general remote control for everything .Project Manager: No no no .We {disfmarker} w it seems that we no want to have a T_V_ remote control . From the management board I receive an email .User Interface: Mm .Industrial Designer: Okay . Yeah .Project Manager: Cos it would becostly uh and and also it it would take more time to develop to have a a general generic remote control .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Yeah yeah . Yeah .User Interface: Mm {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} it's not true I think. The the second claim that you put .Industrial Designer: No no . {vocalsound}Project Manager: That it would be too long to develop .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: I think that should bethe same .Project Manager: Oh yeah . Because I received that email from management board and they seems to tell that that if we want to be on the market as early as possible we should uh focus on T_V_ more whereit seems that the market is more important . So maybe it's a good decision . I dunno . What's your opinion ?User Interface: I have uh I've no idea I mean I should know a bit more about how fast we can uh design it.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: I don't think {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh yeah .Industrial Designer: Finish tonight.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah . Okay . Yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} But basically yeah maybe I can continue with my presentation , it would be al you {disfmarker} you{disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: but I think we have some technical problem or so . So I'm just going to describe briefly what we do in the remote control.Project Manager: Maybe you can go to the whiteboard if you have some drawings to doIndustrial Designer: If fact {disfmarker}Project Manager: I don't know .Industrial Designer: Yeah but {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm.Industrial Designer: Do I have {disfmarker} oh yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Now I have enough cables .User Interface: Like a {disfmarker} you feel a bit like a dog with this stuff .ProjectManager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay so I'm just going to describe {disfmarker} in fact for for a remote control this is quite easy . We just have {disfmarker}Project Manager:{vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: sorry , I'm going {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Are you okay ? {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:Like that . I'm just going to describe . Basically we have a a battery a power supply here . After that we just have um user interface . Let's say that um something like that , which could be um a L_C_D_ let's say or uman array of push button , something like that . Push button or a L_C_D_ . After that we we feed that into um uh an electronic chip . So I say U_C_ and I feed that to uh L_E_D_ which is uh infrared {disfmarker} umwhich is a an infrared um component . And so what we {disfmarker} for for myself this {disfmarker} for for us this is quite easy .Project Manager: U_C_ is the central unit ?Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager:Okay yeah .Industrial Designer: Y it's a {disfmarker} it's {disfmarker} this just a chip which does all the um numericalProject Manager: Computation .Industrial Designer: numerical computation according to yourdisplay .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: And so for us uh this is quite easy . We just need to take {disfmarker} to define what we want to do when the user interface um wants something and after that wejust do the coding to s and send that to to to the {disfmarker} not the {disfmarker} to the television .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: So for us this is quite easy .Project Manager: Okay so this is quite easy. There is not that much constraints .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Um we just have to define the processing power that we need uh especially if we want to do some uh speech recognition , in that case that mean that weare going to use more for simple {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} This will {disfmarker} think this will take more time to develop also .Industrial Designer: Yeah of course of course .User Interface: Yeah .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: And um but for a standard one this is really easy . It's a question of one month and so on sUser Interface: Soon .Project Manager: To have a {disfmarker} you s you speak about withvoi voice control ?Industrial Designer: No no no no ,Project Manager: Standard button one .Industrial Designer: I say {disfmarker} yeah {disfmarker} standard uh standard remote control takes maybe uh one month toto do that .User Interface: Yeah . So the only time problem is the sp voice recognition .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Definitely .User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: So do you have any idea of how long it would take to have voice recognition now ?User Interface: {vocalsound} Ten years .Industrial Designer: I would say {vocalsound} .Project Manager:{vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I would say uh about eight months to have the first results .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay so i it's a bit long yeah .IndustrialDesigner: Yeah . I can {disfmarker} Um .Project Manager: One month for the standard one with button .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Even if we have a L_C_D_ display ?Industrial Designer: Yeah even . Imean that this is really standard devices now . Um eight . For uh speech recognition .Project Manager: Okay yeah . Okay so we can take this into account . So who think it would be good to go for uh like speechrecognition ?User Interface: But we don't have time to market .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah it will .Industrial Designer: And also {disfmarker} how much uh I thinkUser Interface: I think we should contactmanagement .Industrial Designer: during the kickoff meeting you say that we we shouldn't {disfmarker} we shouldn't go up to twelve point five Euro per unitMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Euros . Yeah ,yeah .Industrial Designer: so how many units should we sell to have a {disfmarker}User Interface: Well . Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well each unit is is sell uh twenty five Euros .Industrial Designer: Yeah but"}
{"doc_id":"doc_173","qid":"","text":"Grad A: Yeah , I think I got my mike on . OK . Let 's see .Professor B: OK . Ami , do yours then we 'll open it and I think it 'll be enough .Grad A: Mmm {disfmarker} Doesn't , uh {disfmarker} It should be the other way. Yeah , now it 's on .PhD F: Right . OK .Professor B: OK . So , we all switched on ?Grad A: We are all switched on , yeah .Professor B: Alright . Anyway . So , uh , before we get started with the , uh , technical part , Ijust want to review what I think is happening with the {disfmarker} our data collection .PhD F: We are all switched on .Professor B: So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Uh , probably after today , {vocalsound} thatshouldn't come up in this meeting . Th - this {disfmarker} this is s should be im it isn't {disfmarker} There 's another thing going on of gathering data , and that 's pretty much independent of this . But , uh , I just wantto make sure we 're all together on this . What we think is gonna happen is that , uh , in parallel starting about now {vocalsound} we 're gonna get Fey {vocalsound} to , where you 're working with me and Robert ,draft a note that we 're gonna send out to various CogSci c and other classes saying , \" here 's an opportunity to be a subject . Contact Fey . \" And then there 'll be a certain number of um , hours during the week whichshe will be available and we 'll bring in people . Uh , roughly how many , Robert ? We d Do we know ?Grad C: Um , fifty was our {disfmarker} sort of our first {disfmarker}Professor B: OK . So , we 're looking for a totalof fifty people , not necessarily by any means all students but we 'll s we 'll start with {disfmarker} with that . In parallel with that , we 're gonna need to actually do the script . And , so , I guess there 's a plan to have ameeting Friday afternoon Uh , with {disfmarker} uh , Jane , and maybe Liz and whoever , on actually getting the script worked out . But what I 'd like to do , if it 's O K , {vocalsound} is to s to , as I say , start therecruiting in parallel and possibly start running subjects next week . The week after that 's Spring Break , and maybe we 'll look for them {disfmarker} some subjects next doorGrad C: Yeah .Professor B: or {pause}iGrad C: Yeah . Also , Fey will not be here during spring break .Professor B: Oh , OK , then we won't do it .Grad C: So .Professor B: OK . So that 's easy . Um . So , is {disfmarker} Is that make sense to everybody ?GradC: Yeah . Also , um , F {vocalsound} both Fey and I will , um , {vocalsound} do something of which I may , eh {disfmarker} kindly ask you to {disfmarker} to do the same thing , which is we gonna check out our socialinfrastructures for possible subjects . Meaning , {vocalsound} um , kid children 's gymnastic classes , pre - school parents and so forth . They also sometimes have flexible schedules . So , if you happen to be sort of in anon - student social setting , and you know people who may be interested in being subjects {disfmarker} We also considered using the Berkeley High School and their teachers , maybe , and get them interested in stuff.Professor B: That 's a good idea .Grad C: And , um . So that 's as far as our brainstorming was concerned .Professor B: Oh , yeah . The high school 's a great idea .Grad C: So . But I {disfmarker} I will just make a firstdraft of the , uh , note , the \" write - up \" note , send it to you and Fey and then {disfmarker}Professor B: And why don't you also copy Jane on it ?Grad C: And , um , Are we {disfmarker} Have we concurred that , uh ,these {disfmarker} these forms are sufficient for us , and necessary ?Professor B: Uh , th I think they 're necessary . This {disfmarker} The permission form .Grad C: Mmm .Professor B: Uh , there has to be one ,GradC: Nuh . N .Professor B: and I think we 're just gonna use it as it is , and {pause} UmGrad C: N . You happy with that ?Professor B: Well , yeah . There 's one tricky part about , um , they have the right um I The lastparagraph {comment} \" if you agree to participate you have the opportunity to have anything excised which you would prefer not to have included in the data set . \" OK ? Now that , we had to be included for this otherone which might have , uh , meetings , you know , about something .Grad C: Mm - hmm .Professor B: In this case , it doesn't really make sense . Um , so what I 'd like to do is also have our subjects sign a waiversaying \" I don't want to see the final transcript \" .Grad C: Mm - hmm .Professor B: And if they don't {disfmarker} If they say \" no , I 'm not willing to sign that \" , then we 'll show them the final transcript . But , um.Grad C: Yep . Makes sense .Professor B: That , uh {disfmarker} yeah , so we might actually , um S i Jane may say that , \" you know , you can't do this \" , uh , \" on the same form , we need a separate form . \" Butanyway . I 'd {disfmarker} I 'd {disfmarker} I 'd like to , e e um , add an a little thi eh {disfmarker} a thing for them to initial , saying \" nah , do I don't want to see the final transcript . \"Grad C: Mm - hmm .ProfessorB: But other than that , that 's one 's been approved , this really is the same project , uh , rec you know . And so forth . So I think we just go with it .Grad C: Yeah . Yeah . OK . So much for the data , except that withMunich everything is fine now . They 're gonna {vocalsound} transcribe . They 're also gonna translate the , uh , German data from the TV and cinema stuff for Andreas . So . They 're {disfmarker} they all seem to behappy now , {vocalsound} with that . So . w c sh should we move on to the technical sides ?Professor B: Yep .Grad C: Well I guess the good {disfmarker} good news of last week was the parser . So , um Bhaskara andI started working on the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the parser . Then Bhaskara went to class and once he came back , um , {vocalsound} it was finished . So . It , uh {disfmarker} I didn't measure it , but it was aboutan hour and ten minutes .Grad D: Yep .Grad C: And , um {disfmarker} and now it 's {disfmarker} We have a complete English parser that does everything the German parser does .Grad D: Something like that.Professor B: Which is {vocalsound} not a lot . But {disfmarker}Grad D: That 's the , uh , point .Grad C: The {disfmarker} uh , that 's not a lot .Professor B: OK .Grad D: Yes .Professor B: Right .Grad C: And um .GradE: What did you end up having to do ? I mean , wha Was there anything {pause} interesting about it at all ?Grad C: Well , if you , eh {disfmarker}Grad D: We 'll show you .Professor B: Yeah , we can show us ,Grad E:or are we gonna see that ?Professor B: right ?Grad C: Well , w w We d The first we did is we {disfmarker} we tried to {disfmarker} to do {disfmarker} change the {disfmarker} the \" laufen \" into \" run \" , {vocalsound}or \" running \" , {vocalsound} or \" runs \" .Professor B: Yep .Grad C: And we noticed that whatever we tried to do , it no effect .Grad E: Mm - hmm .Grad C: And we were puzzled .Grad E: OK .Grad C: And , uh , thereason was that the parser i c completely ignores the verb .Grad E: Mm - hmm .Grad C: So this sentence {disfmarker} sentence is {disfmarker} parses the p the same output ,Grad E: Hmm . Interesting parserproperty .Grad C: um , even if you leave out , um , all {disfmarker} all of this .Grad E: I see . Yeah .Grad C: So it 's basically feature film and TV .Grad E: TodayGrad C: That 's what you need .Grad E: OK .Grad C: If{disfmarker} if you 'd add {disfmarker} add Today and Evening , it 'll add Time or not .Grad E: And the {disfmarker} t and the time , right ?Grad C: So it {disfmarker} i it does look at that .Grad E: OK .Grad C: But allthe rest is p simply frosting on the cake , and it 's optional for that parser .Grad E: True .Professor B: So , you can sho You {disfmarker} you {disfmarker} Are {disfmarker} are you gonna show us the little templates?Grad C: And {disfmarker}Grad E: SGrad C: Yeah . We ar we can sh er {disfmarker} I can show you the templates . I {disfmarker} I also have it running here ,Grad E: The former end g \" Oh , I see . Uh - huh .Grad C:so if I {vocalsound} do this now , um , {vocalsound} you can see that it parsed the wonderful English sentence , \" Which films are on the cinema today {pause} evening ? \" But , um .Professor B: Well , that sounds{disfmarker}Grad C: Uh do don't worry about it .Professor B: No iGrad C: It could be \" this evening , which {disfmarker} which films are on the cinema \" , or \" running in the cinema , which {disfmarker} \" uh , \" todayevening \" , uh i \" Is anything happening in the cinema this evening ? \"Grad E: OK . OK . Key words , e basically .Professor B: WellGrad C: Ge - elaborate , or , more or less , {vocalsound} uh {disfmarker}Professor B:Actually , it 's a little tricky , in that there 's some allowable German orders which aren't allowable English orders and so forth . And it is order - based . So it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} Isn't it ?Grad C: No .Grad D: No.Professor B: Oh . So it {disfmarker} it doe I it {disfmarker} These {disfmarker} u these optional elements ,Grad C: It is not {disfmarker}Professor B: it 's {disfmarker} it 's actually a set , not a sequence ?Grad C:Yeah . We were {disfmarker} I was afraid that , um {disfmarker}Professor B: Oh !Grad E: So it really is key word matching , basically .Professor B: Really a seGrad C: Um .PhD F: e yeah . Mm - hmm .Professor B: Oh ,wow .Grad C: Um , I mean , these sentences are just silly .Grad E: Hmm .Grad C: I mean , uh , d these were not the ones we {disfmarker} we actually did it . Um . What 's an idiomatic of phrasing this ? Which films are{pause} showing ?Grad D: Are pl playing at the cinema ?Grad C: playing ?Grad D: Yeah .Grad E: Tonight ?Grad D: I changed that file , actually , where it 's on my account .Grad E: This {disfmarker} this evening ?PhDF: Actually , you would say , \" which films are on tonight ? \"Grad D: You want to get it ? Or {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} di was it easy to get it ?Grad C: Um . I have no net here .Grad D: Oh , OK .Professor B: Do I?Grad C: OK . So . Wonderful parse , same thing . Um .Professor B: Right .Grad C: Except that we d w we don't have this , uh , time information here now , which is , um {disfmarker} Oh . This {disfmarker} are thereserve . Anyways . {vocalsound} So . Um . These are the {disfmarker} sort of the ten different sentence types that the uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the parser was able to do . And it still is , now in English.Professor B: Yeah .Grad E: Mm - hmm .Grad C: And , um {disfmarker} Sorry . And , um you have already to make it a little bit more elaborate , right ?Grad D: Yeah , I mean I changed those sentences to make it , uh ,more , uh , idiomatic . And , of course , you can have i many variations in those sentences , they will still parse fine . So , in a sense it 's pretty broad .Professor B: OK .Grad C: OK . So , if you want to look at thetemplates , {vocalsound} {vocalsound} they 're conveniently located in a file , \" template \" . Um , and this is what I had to do . I had to change , @ @ {comment} \" Spielfilm \" to \" film \" , uh , \" Film \" to \" movie \" ,cinem \" Kino \" to \" cinema \" {disfmarker} to \" today \" {disfmarker} heu \" heute \" to \" today \" ,Grad E: Huh .Grad C: evening {disfmarker} \" Abend \" to \" evening \"Professor B: Capitalized as wellGrad A: Hmm .Grad C:And , um .Professor B: Y iGrad D: One thing I was wondering , was , those functions there , are those things that modify the M - three - L basically ?Grad C: Yep .Grad D: OK .Grad C: And that 's {disfmarker} that 's thenext step ,Professor B: pGrad C: but we 'll get to that in a second .Professor B: Oh .Grad C: And so this means , um , \" this \" and \" see \" are not optional . \" Want I like \" is all maybe in there , but may also not be inthere .Professor B: So {disfmarker} so , the point is , if it says \" this \" and \" see \" , it also will work in \" see \" and \" this \" ?Grad E: SProfessor B: In the other order ?Grad C: Yeah .Professor B: with those two key words?Grad C: Should we try it ?Professor B: \" This is the one I want to see \" or whatever .Grad C: OK . \" Action watch \" ,Grad D: Hmm .Grad C: whatever . Nothing was specialfi specified . except that it has some referencesto audio - visual media here .Grad D: AV medium .Grad C: Where it gets that from {disfmarker}Grad D: Yeah .Grad C: It 's correct , but I don't know where it gets it from .Grad D: \" See \" .Grad C: Oh , \" see \" . Yeah .Yeah . Yep . OK .Grad D: I mean it 's sort of {disfmarker}Grad C: And \" see this \" {comment} is exactly the same thing .Professor B: OK , so it is set - based . Alright .Grad D: One thing I was wondering was ,{vocalsound} those percentage signs , right ? So , I mean , why do we even have them ?Grad C: Yep .Grad D: Because {disfmarker} if you didn't have them {disfmarker}Grad C: Uh , I 'll tell you why . Because it givesa {disfmarker} you a score .Grad E: Mm - hmm .Grad C: And the value of the score is , v I assume , I guess , the more of these optional things that are actually in there , the higher the r score {vocalsound} it is .GradD: Oh . OK . So that 's the main purpose . Alright .Grad E: It 's a match .PhD F: Right .Grad E: Mm - hmm .Professor B: OK .Grad C: So we {disfmarker} we shouldn't belittle it too much . It 's doing something , somethings , and it 's very flexible . I 've just tried toGrad E: Mm - hmm .Grad C: be nice .PhD F: Right .Professor B: No , no . Fine .Grad E: Right {disfmarker} Yeah .Professor B: Yeah , yeah , yeah , flexible it is .PhD F: But{disfmarker}Grad C: OK . {vocalsound} Um , let 's hope that the generation will not be more difficult , even though the generator is a little bit more complex . Uh but we 'll {disfmarker} Mmm , that means we mayneed two hours and twenty minutes rather than an hour ten minutes ,Professor B: Alright .Grad C: I hope .Grad D: Right .Grad C: And the next thing I would like to be able to do , and it seems like this would not be toodifficult either , is {vocalsound} to say , \" OK let 's now pretend we actually wanted to not only change the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the mapping of {disfmarker} of , uh , words to the M - three - L but we alsowanted to change {disfmarker} add a new sentence type and and make up some {disfmarker} some new M - three - L {disfmarker} s \"Professor B: Yep . So That 'd be great . It would be a good exercise to just see{vocalsound} whether one can get that to run .Grad C: See th Mm - hmm . {vocalsound} Yep . And , um ,Grad D: So , that 's {disfmarker}Grad C: that 's {disfmarker} shouldn't be too tough .Grad D: Fine , yeah .Yeah , so where are those {disfmarker} those functions \" Action \" , \" Goodbye \" , and so on , right ? Are they actually , um , {vocalsound} Are they going to be called ? Um , are they present in the code for the parser?Grad C: Yeah . I think what it does , it i i it does something sort of fancy . It loads um {disfmarker} It has these style sheets and also the , um , schemata . So what it probably does , is it takes the , uh , {vocalsound}um {disfmarker} Is this where it is ? This is already the XML stuff ? This is where it takes its own , um , syntax , and converts it somehow . Um . Where is the uh {disfmarker}Grad D: What are you looking for ?Grad C:Um , where it actually produces the {disfmarker} the XML out of the , uh , parsed {pause} stuff .Grad D: Oh , OK .Grad C: No , this is not it . Uh . I can't find it now . You mean , where the {disfmarker} where the acthow the action \" Goodbye \" maps into something {disfmarker}Grad D: Yeah .Grad A: Yeah , where are those constructors defined ?Grad D: Oh .Grad C: Nope .Grad D: No , that 's not it .Grad C: Yeah . This is sort ofwhat happens . This is what you would need to {disfmarker} to change {disfmarker} to get the , uh , XML changed . So when it encounts encounters \" Day \" , {vocalsound} it will , uh , activate those h classes in the{disfmarker} in the XML stuff But , um {disfmarker} I saw those actions {disfmarker} uh , the \" Goodbye \" stuff somewhere . Hmm , hmm , hmm , hmm , hmm .Grad A: Grep for it ?Grad C: Yeah . Let 's do that . Oh.Grad D: Mmm . M - three - L dot DTD ?Grad C: Yep .Grad D: That 's just a {pause} specification for the XML format .Grad C: Yep . Well , we 'll find that out . So whatever {disfmarker} n this does {disfmarker} I meanthis is , basically , looks l to me like a function call , right ?Professor B: Hmm ? Oh , yeah .Grad C: And , um {disfmarker} So , whenever it {disfmarker} it encounters \" Goodbye \" , which we can make it do in a second ,hereGrad A: That function automatically generates an initialized XML structure ?Grad C: IGrad D: I think each of those functions act on the current XML structure , and change it in some way , for example , by adding a{disfmarker} a l a field to it , or something .Professor B: y Yeah . They also seem to affect state ,Grad C: Mm - hmm .Professor B: cause some of them {disfmarker} there were other actions uh , that {disfmarker} thats seemed to step {disfmarker} state variables somewhere ,Grad D: Right .Professor B: like the n s \" Discourse Status Confirm \" . OK . So that 's going to be a call on the discourseGrad C: Yep .Professor B: and{vocalsound} confirm that it 's {disfmarker}Grad C: W we Mm - hmmGrad D: Oh , you mean that 's not going to actually modify the tree ,Professor B: I think that 's right .Grad C: eGrad D: but it 's going to change theevent .Professor B: I think it 's actually {disfmarker} That looks like it 's state modification .Grad D: Oh . Oh .Grad C: e mmm Um , well i There is a feature called \" Discourse - Status \" ,Grad D: When there 's a feature.Professor B: Yeah .Grad C: And so whenever I just say , \" Write \" , it will {disfmarker} it will put this in here .Professor B: Oh , so it always just {disfmarker} Is it {disfmarker} So it {disfmarker} Well , go back , then ,cuz it may be that all those th things , while they look like function calls , are just a way of adding exactly that to the XML .Grad C: h Yep .Professor B: Uh - huh ! I 'm not {disfmarker} I 'm not sure .Grad C: So , this{disfmarker}Professor B: e I 'm not sure {disfmarker} e that {disfmarker}Grad C: Um {disfmarker} well , we {disfmarker} we 'll see , when we say , let 's test something , \" Goodbye \" , causes it to c to createbasically an \" Action Goodbye - End - Action \" .Professor B: Right .Grad C: Which is a means of telling the system to shut down .Professor B: Right .Grad C: Now , if we know that \" Write \" produces a \" Feature Discourse- Status Confirm Discourse - Status \" . So if I now say \" Write , Goodbye , \" it should do that . It sho it creates this ,Grad D: Mm - hmm .Professor B: Right .Grad C: \" Confirm Goodbye \" .Professor B: Yep .Grad D: Rightthere . But there is some kind of function call , because how does it know to put Goodbye in Content , but , uh , Confirm in Features ?Grad C: Oh . It d it {disfmarker} n That 's because {disfmarker}Grad D: So So , it 'snot just that it 's adding that field .Professor B: Right .Grad D: It 'sProfessor B: Absolutely . Good point .Grad D: OK .Professor B: It 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} It 's under what sub - type you 'redoing it . Yeah .Grad C: Mm - hmm . Yeah .Grad A: It 's mystery functions .Grad C: Well , sometimes it m Sometimes , iGrad D: Well , they 're defined somewhere , presumably .Professor B: Yeah , each is {disfmarker}S so that 's funny .Grad C: When it {disfmarker}Professor B: You bury the s the state in the function Alright .Grad C: it {disfmarker}Grad A: Well , it just automatically initializes things that are common , right?Professor B: UhGrad A: So it 's just a shorthand .Professor B: Yeah .Grad C: For example {disfmarker} Oh , this is German . Sorry . e So , now , this , it cannot do anymore . Nothing comes out of here .Grad A: A \" nota number \" is a value . Awesome .Grad C: So , it doesn't speak German anymore , but it does speak English . And there is , here , a reference {disfmarker} So , this tells us that whatever is {disfmarker} has the ID \"zero \" is referenced here {disfmarker} by @ @ {comment} the restriction seed and this is exa \" I want {disfmarker} \" What was the sentence ?Professor B: \" I want two seats here . \"Grad C: \" need two seats here . \"Nuh . \" And where is it playing ? \" There should also be a reference to something , maybe . Our d This is re um Mmm . Here , we change {disfmarker} and so , we {disfmarker} Here we add something to the Discourse -Status , that the user wants to change something that was sort of done before And , uh {disfmarker} and that , whatever is being changed has something to do with the cinema .Grad A: So then , whatever takes this M- three - L is what actually changes the state , not the {disfmarker} Yeah , OK .Professor B: No , right , the Discourse Maintainer ,Grad A: Yeah .Professor B: yeah . I see . And it {disfmarker} and it runs around lookingfor Discourse Status tags , and doing whatever it does with them . And other people ignore those tags . Alright . So , yeah . I definitely think it 's {disfmarker} {vocalsound} It 's worth the exercise of trying to actuallyadd something that isn't there .Grad C: Hmm ?Professor B: Uh DiscGrad C: Sort of get a complete understanding of the whole thing .Professor B: Yeah , a kid understanding what 's going on . Then the next thing wetalked about is actually , {vocalsound} um , figuring out how to add our own tags , and stuff like that .Grad C: OK . Point number two . I got the , uh , M - three - L for the routes today . Uh , so I got some more . This is"}
{"doc_id":"doc_174","qid":"","text":"Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay , welcome to the second meeting of this uh design group . Um {vocalsound} I'll briefly go through the uh notes of the of the last meeting uh just done in in noteform and I haven't attributed anything to individuals , because we're working strictly as a team here and uh n nobody's working equally ,User Interface: Sorry .Project Manager: so uh . Um we we s we saw that the theproblems with existing remote controls were the uh b a boring shape and boring colour . Um and and we s we saw that the um what we needed to do was to to make sure the device um controls several items , thatswitching was easy , that you shouldn't need to point the thing at uh anything in particular , um that it need to be contoured to make it interesting , that the keys might be concave , simply because that hasn't beendone before that we know of . Um should have interchangeable fascias so people can personalise it , um illuminated so that people can see it in dark rooms . Um and that people might want it as as {disfmarker} inaddition to their existing remote controls . Um {vocalsound} and that it sh it should just always work , whenever you uh um mm uh use it . And that it shouldn't be too small , mm that it it gets lost . Um . {gap} Now uhuh I'll shortly ask for for three three presentations . Uh before I do that , however , I will go through some new project requirements that um {disfmarker} the the management have placed on us and uh will bechallenging in terms of what we discussed at the first meeting . Um the uh the ma the management has had it's own thoughts on this and uh the they don't necessarily agree with with what we uh we thought . Um andand then we'll {disfmarker} as a result of that we will then talk through the the functions that we see the the device um actually b carrying out , and we have uh forty minutes to do this in and I uh {disfmarker} Anyway. Okay . Now , the n the new requirements are um the the management team see that um teletext is no longer of any importance given the uh the rise of the internet . Um and and they want it only to cover televisions .Um now , what is not q quite clear from their directive is whether they mean th they don't want it to cover teletext or whether they don't want it to cover , you know , videos , D_V_D_s , um satellite boxes , which uh{disfmarker} I mean we saw as being fundamental to the uh to the exercise . The um the actual wording of the directive is that it should cover television only . Um and on that basis um I I think we we need to bear thatin mind , um but possibly uh keep at the backs of our minds that the reality that people even when they uh no longer {disfmarker} they don't look at teletext anymore , they certainly do look at other things . Um{vocalsound} the device has to incorporate the company logo and colours . Um the the logo uh being at b the bottom of the screen there , the the the two R_s in grey against uh a yellow background . Um now thisdoesn't {vocalsound} necessarily mean that we have to give up some of our ideas about making it attractive to the t to the market . But uh do do introduce some some constraints as to how we might do that . Um italso has to be simple , which to some extent goes along w with the first one , and that {disfmarker} we've already said that it must be simple 'cause that's what people want anyway . Um but they also want it to besimple to get it to the market quickly , which um mm {vocalsound} uh is is is their choice , but uh um we we need to talk that through . Um okay , so uh after the meeting it'll be summarised and uhIndustrial Designer:{vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: um notes sent out and uh etcetera . Okay , so {vocalsound} we'll first of all mm have individual reports from everybody . Um again I {vocalsound}{disfmarker} there is no order of precedence here um so I I I'll leave it up to you to {disfmarker} who who who thinks they would like to go go first ?Marketing: Uh I don't mind . {gap}Project Manager: P fine.Marketing: Uh can I steal the cable ?Project Manager: Oh sorry , you can indeed .Marketing: Cheers .Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I got a {disfmarker} how do Istart there ?Project Manager: Oh , if you click on the um uh the one that that looks like a projection screen , no the one to the right of that . That one .Marketing: That one . Cool . Well these are functionalityrequirements from the {disfmarker} our our guys down in the the research lab . Took hundred people and covered all the aspects of what um is needed by people and what they want to see . Um {vocalsound}everything kinda from functionality and how individual functions are {disfmarker} how mu how how often they're used and how much their necessary and stuff . And general opinions about current current remotes .See that , as we kinda noticed , seventy five percent of people find their remote controls ugly . So some kind of a new style should be incorporated that's less ugly {vocalsound} . Uh along with um looking less ugly , if itlooks better , eighty percent of people said they'd spend more money on it . Which is a a plus for us , if we can make it look better , it'd be uh more cost effective and we can put the price up . Current remote controlsdo not match the operating behaviour of the user . I can empl I kinda take that to mean as um {vocalsound} they they don't uh {disfmarker} they , yeah , they only use {disfmarker} they only work for the television oryeah like as in in my flat I've got six remote controls for a stereo system , a digital box , a D_V_D_ player , a video player and T_V_ . If it was uh {disfmarker} I mean th my behaviour is to use multiple things at thesame time and multiple remotes aren't really matched well to my behaviour . {vocalsound} Uh again , seventy five percent is {disfmarker} seventy five percent of users say they zap a lot . I took to mean that they just{disfmarker} they use it a lot , they use it regularly rather than standing up and manually change channels or volume {gap} . {vocalsound} And uh yeah , uh I think the big issue is fifty percent users only use tenpercent of the buttons , 'cause uh wh if we got a remote that like {disfmarker} well we'll have some buttons taken off by the lack of teletext , but uh oh and we're going to see uh on the {disfmarker} uh that some ofthe functions like audio settings aren't h hardly ever used and used very {disfmarker} aren't considered relevant by the user . So I think maybe fewer buttons , which also make the design look sleeker , I dunno . Uh umyeah and uh frustrations of like people losing remote control .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: I dunno maybe some kind of system of you press a button on the T_V_ or maybe that's b it would have to incorporate{gap} , but like some kind of system where you can f use something else to find the remote control . Maybe like it'll beep or something . And um , yep , the uh time taken to learn new remote controls is {disfmarker}Uh don't want to make it too complicated , easy to use for uh new {disfmarker} like first time users and stuff . And uh repetitive strain injury , I suppose we should make it more comfortable and make ma possibly evenuse {disfmarker} have to make it , yeah , fewer buttons , like I was saying about the whole mice {disfmarker} the mouse idea of it feels more comfortable .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: Maybe don't even have tohold it as such .Project Manager: Gosh , must be some telly addicts out there if they get R_S_I_ from their television remote , is all I can say .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: But uh yeah . It also asked um if we would {disfmarker} if people would pay more for speech recognitionProject Manager: {vocalsound} {gap}Marketing: and younger people say they would .And uh there was another section on our {disfmarker} on the report for uh L_C_D_ displays , but the data wasn't there , so . I don't actually know what the results for that were ,Project Manager: Mm . Right . Mm.Marketing: so . {vocalsound} May be incrementally emitting , but yeah .Project Manager: Yeah , I must say that um the uh {disfmarker} I c can't remember what {vocalsound} um f you know phone service I wasusing the other day , but that had sorta speech recognition which worked uh remarkably well , so that is indeed a uh um a thoughtMarketing: And uh {vocalsound} it would cut out the R_S_I_ as well if you{disfmarker} {vocalsound}Project Manager: and it it cuts out uh {disfmarker} I was was gonna say , you can't get a lot of R_S_I_ ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: j just get jaw ache . Okay , sorry .{vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah , um {disfmarker} oh yeah , so possibly the speech recognition is possibly something could add into the design . Oh , I've got some other things I couldn't fit onto this presentation . Um .You see this okay ? Almost {disfmarker} no ? It's {disfmarker} sorry it's a bit {gap} . I'll read out to you . Uh functionality , uh like people's opinions on functionality , the relevance to the remote and how often they'reused . So um like the power . Using the using the d swi the power switch to switch on T_V_ is a high relevance of nine , but it's not frequently used . You see what I mean ?Project Manager: Yeah .{vocalsound}Marketing: Whereas channel selection , which is very high relevanceProject Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: is used the most . So m we can maybe even start to cut down on {disfmarker} or I was possiblyeven thinking of a design that maybe some of the buttons are hidden from everyday use . Maybe like uh a folding ledge or something . So that we can maybe go into the channel settings and the audio settings,Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: which are low relevanceProject Manager: {vocalsound} Mm-hmm . I mean {disfmarker}Marketing: and rarely used . And keep the v volume selection and channel selection veryeasily {disfmarker}User Interface: It could be {disfmarker} oh uh I was just gonna say uh maybe like the flip phones that they use ?Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: Have you seen the new mo mobilephonesProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah .User Interface: that flip out and they have the like texting , and then the numbers on one side ,Marketing: Oh yeah .User Interface: soProject Manager: Mm .User Interface:you could have the most {vocalsound} used buttons on top and flip it out or something .Project Manager: Hmm , hmm .Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: Yeah , like the one that like slides backProject Manager: Uh .Should we actually bite the bullet here ?Marketing: and the buttons are concealed underneath .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: If people really don't use those buttons to any extent atall um {vocalsound} remove them altogether .Marketing: Just remove them completely ?Project Manager: We we could actually have we could actually have a remote control with um {disfmarker}User Interface: Thatmight be the {disfmarker}Project Manager: I wonder whether we could get the remote control with no buttons at all if we went for voice recognition , given that um the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Um now the the agestructure we were looking at {disfmarker} um I mean w we had usage by age structure , what we didn't have was what proportion of people using remotes were in those particular age groups . Now do we knowwhether they {disfmarker}Marketing: Uh yeah .Project Manager: Forty {disfmarker} no sorry {disfmarker} for forty five to fifty five age group , uh to put myself right in the middle of it , um u use remote controls to agreat extent .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yes we {disfmarker}Marketing: Um no this is for {disfmarker} pay more for speech recognition .Project Manager: That would've speech recogn right . So , we're looking at {disfmarker} um well again , we don't know the relative proportion {disfmarker} the relative numbers in the age groups .Marketing: Yeah , that's true .Project Manager: Ifwe wanted something different , truly different , then the buttonless remote control w would be it .Industrial Designer: P Well the only problem I can think of with that is if you've got a lot of people that don't wanna bebothered learning how to use new rem remote controls . If you just kind of take away everything that they're used to knowing , that's gonna be quite a change .Project Manager: But if you just lift it up and say , channelone or B_B_C_ {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: It might {disfmarker}Marketing: Or even {disfmarker} I mean you could even just have it left on .User Interface: Maybe iMarketing: You could just put it down once ontop your T_V_ and never have to {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah , have a big kind of like the satellite box or the cable boxProject Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: and have it just go on the T_V_ and then itdoesn't matter where in the room you are ,Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: you won't lose it .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: It c well it {disfmarker} I can I can see technical problems with that in terms ofthe , you know , the sound from the television ,Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: No .Project Manager: because if somebody actually on the television says uh uh , you know , I_T_V_ and you're watching B_B_C_then then it might um change itself ,Marketing: {vocalsound} B_B_C_ one . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Oh . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing:{vocalsound}Project Manager: so it probably needs to be um {disfmarker} possibly actually need a button on itUser Interface: Yeah , that's true .Project Manager: just to activate it .Marketing: Oh yeah .ProjectManager: Or or something just to identify that you've lifted it up and it's use . And and then just say , oh I don't know , a thought and and then {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: uh I mean that thatwould certainly be uh truly different . {vocalsound} Um 'cause uh you know audio settings , nought point eight percent . I mean if they weren't there , {vocalsound} would people miss them ?Marketing: Mm-mm.Industrial Designer: But look at the importance of them . The volume settings .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Relevance of two out of ten ,Project Manager: Vol volume ,Marketing: yeah .IndustrialDesigner: Yeah .Project Manager: yes umIndustrial Designer: They're not used oftenProject Manager: th {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: but they are quite important when they're used .Project Manager: w we needto s identify things that {vocalsound} people actually needIndustrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: and and it's a function of frequency and relevance . And um I would say ignoring ig ignoring power for the moment, um the channel and volumeIndustrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: and th w w given given that we've been told to ignore teletext . Uh channel and volume are the only ones thatMarketing: Yeah .Project Manager:{vocalsound} uh would appear to be essential .Marketing: Stand out .Project Manager: Um . So {disfmarker} if we can design something that that looks interesting , know , or looks different , um incorporates the thelogo and and the colours and um we can still have our interchangeable fascias even if it's {gap} the yellow and grey , um and uh I dunno , buttons or or buttons as an option .Marketing: Uh I just had a thought actually, sorry to interrupt .Project Manager: Do , please .Marketing: Uh you were saying about um it could {disfmarker} technical problems of like uh someone on the television saying a channel number and it changed{disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: we could maybe have like an activation word .Project Manager: You cer certainly could .Marketing: 'Cause I've seen I've seen this used on computers before , whereyou just {disfmarker} you address the remote ,Project Manager: {vocalsound} Depe uh i depends whether um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: you address the computer , and then give it a command.Project Manager: if we want to make this so simple that anybody can walk into the room and lift it up and sayMarketing: Oh I see . Oh yeah , I see .Project Manager: B_B_C_ one . Um okay , I mean you could print{disfmarker} actually print it on the uhMarketing: {vocalsound} Mm-hmm , yeah .Project Manager: device itself . Um .Marketing: I mean I'm just thinking of the point of view of peop you could still like lose this remote.Project Manager: S th this I th {vocalsound} that's always gonna be a problem I think .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: Um and I I I s so I suppose one um {disfmarker} could makeit so desirable that if people lose it they immediately go out and buy another one .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Anyway , sorry , carry on . Doyou want to just carry on with {disfmarker}Marketing: Oh noProject Manager: or {disfmarker}Marketing: I I interrupted you ,Project Manager: no no , no uh b I was in the middle of in the middle of your report there .{vocalsound}Marketing: sorry {vocalsound} . Oh okay . Um well , I was just kinda wrapping up there . Yeah ,Project Manager: Mm okay . {vocalsound}Marketing: I was thinking um , yeah , maybe such things arerelevant . We could make things much more f I think the the eighty percent of people would spend more on uh a remote uh that looks better , combined with uh decrease the {disfmarker} or take out the limited functiofunctions that we don't really use much . {gap} alright take out teletext , but as for channel settings and stuff it might it might um turn people somewhe peop some people that want the whole functionality away . But ,since {disfmarker} if we're marketing a more kind of fashionable approach then it'd {disfmarker} it would be fashion and fashion over practicality .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . S s we could {disfmarker} we could makeit dual function {gap} voice recognition and {gap} still have buttons on it umMarketing: {vocalsound} Oh , we could , yeah . We c yeah ,Project Manager: 'cause we're {disfmarker}Marketing: we could even have it aslike a {disfmarker} yeah the buttons control this and the voice functions control the f things that you would do all the time , so .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Certainly could . Yeah , yeah .Industrial Designer: Mm.Marketing: So uh yeah , if we could uh {disfmarker} power on and channel selection and and volume selection , wouldn't have to really {disfmarker}Project Manager: {gap} The {disfmarker} I mean the the advantageof doing away the buttons altogether is it makes the thing cheaper .Marketing: Yeah and probably it would look better as well .Project Manager: No , it cou certainly opens up the possibility for making it uh , you know ,visually very distinctive .Marketing: Yeah . yeah .Project Manager: Um 'cause you know , it does not have to be a oblong box .Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: Lined with numbered buttons and {disfmarker}ProjectManager: Mm , yeah . Okay , who {disfmarker} sorry , have you have you finished there Andy ?Marketing: Uh yeah , yeah , that's everything .Project Manager: Yep , yep . Um {vocalsound} given that we've alreadyhad a extensive discussion uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Okay well , I can do mine .Industrial Designer: Hmm.Marketing: Do you want the cable ?User Interface: Yeah , let's see if I can make this work . Um .Industrial Designer: Oh , you have to hit like function and F_ something .User Interface: Oh .Marketing: F_ eight.Industrial Designer: F_ eight .User Interface: Is it doing {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Dunno .Marketing: Uh , give it about twenty seconds , or so .User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: Ah , therewe go . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Oh yeah , it's going .User Interface: Oh okay . {vocalsound} Okay , so this is just about the technical functions .Project Manager: Alright .User Interface: So the method , Ilooked online for examples of other similar products and then just kind of was trying to brainstorm some possible design ideas and um identify what the necessary things are , what people are {disfmarker} what youreally wanna have a remote control do . Um and then there are two different kinds that I found . There's a user centred one and an engineering centred one which I will have pictures of and then we kinda have to decidewhich one this should be .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: {vocalsound} So these are the two different ones . This one um {disfmarker} this is the user centred , it has uh quite a few mm uh um fewerbuttonsMarketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: and then this is the engineering centred , which has a lot more buttons ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: and probably this is one that people complain about ,"}
{"doc_id":"doc_175","qid":"","text":"Grad G: headphones that aren't so uncomfortable .PhD B: I think {disfmarker} Well , this should be off the record ,Professor D: Hmm .PhD B: but I think {disfmarker}Professor D: Uh , OK .Professor A: We 're notrecording yet , are we ?Grad G: Well , I don't think {disfmarker}PhD F: No , uh , that {disfmarker} that wasn't recorded .Grad G: No . Um , I don't think they 're designed to be over your ears .PhD B: Yeah , I know . Itjust {disfmarker} it really hurts . It gives you a headache , like if you {disfmarker} On your temple {disfmarker}PhD F: Temple squeezers .PhD B: Yeah .Grad G: Yep .PhD B: Yeah .Professor D: Mm - hmm .Grad G: ButI definitely {pause} haven't figured it out .Professor A: Um , Meeting Recorder meeting .PhD F: I guess I have to d stop doing this sigh of contentment , you know , after sipping cappuccino or something .PhD B: Yeah ,with the {disfmarker} We kno I know .Grad G: \" Sip , sigh . \"PhD B: We know exactly how much you have left in your cup .PhD F: I was just noticing a big sProfessor D: So are we recording now ? Is this{disfmarker}PhD E: Yeah .Professor D: Oh ! We 're {disfmarker} we 're {disfmarker} we 're live . OK .PhD E: Yeah .Professor D: So , uh , {vocalsound} what were we gonna talk about again ? So we said {disfmarker}we said data collection , which we 're doing .PhD B: Were we gonna do digits ?Professor A: OK . Do we do th do you go around the room {pause} and do names or anything ?Grad G: I think that {disfmarker}PhD E: It 'sa good idea .Grad G: u usually we 've done that and also we 've s done digits as well , but I forgot to print any out . So . Besides with this big a group ,PhD B: You can write them on the board , if you want .Professor D:No . I it 'd be even better with this big {disfmarker}Grad G: it would take too much time .PhD E: Which way is {disfmarker}Grad G: Yeah , but it takes too much time .PhD E: Mari ?Postdoc H: What{disfmarker}Professor A: What ?Professor D: It 's not that long .PhD E: Y I think your {disfmarker} your {disfmarker} your thing {nonvocalsound} may be pointing in a funny direction . Sort of it 's {disfmarker} ithelps if it points sort of upwards .Professor A: Whoops .PhD E: Sort of it {disfmarker} you know .Professor A: Would it {disfmarker} mPhD E: Yeah .Professor D: w uPhD E: So that thing {disfmarker} the little{disfmarker} th that part should be pointing upwards .Professor A: So {disfmarker} Oh , this thing .PhD E: That 's it . Yeah .Professor A: Yeah .Postdoc H: Otherwise you just get a heartbeats .Professor A: It 's kind of{disfmarker}Professor D: Oh , yeah , the element , yeah , n should be as close to you {disfmarker} your mouth as possible .Professor A: Yeah . OK .PhD E: That 's good . That kind of thing is good .Postdoc H: It 's a{disfmarker}Professor A: This w Alright .PhD E: Yeah .Professor A: How 's that working ?Professor D: Yeah .PhD E: Oh , yeah . It 's a {disfmarker} It 's working .Professor A: OK .Professor D: Alright . So what we had{pause} was that we were gonna talk about data collection , and , um , uh , you {disfmarker} you put up there data format ,Professor A: Um .Professor D: and other tasks during data collection ,Professor A: So , Ithink the goal {disfmarker} the goal was what can we do {disfmarker} how can you do the data collection differently to get {disfmarker}Professor D: and {disfmarker}Professor A: what can you add to it to get , um ,some information that would be helpful for the user - interface design ? Like {disfmarker}Grad G: Uh , especially for querying .Professor A: Especially for querying . So , getting people to do queries afterwards , gettingpeople to do summaries afterwards . Um .Postdoc H: Well , one thing that came up in the morning {disfmarker} in the morning was the , um , i uh , if he {disfmarker} I , um {disfmarker} if he has {disfmarker} s I{disfmarker} I don't remember , Mister Lan - Doctor Landry ?Grad G: Landay . James .Postdoc H: La - Landay ? So he has , um , these , uh , um , tsk {comment} note - taking things ,Professor A: Mm - hmm .PostdocH: then that would sort of be a summary which you wouldn't have to solicit . y if {disfmarker} if we were able to {disfmarker} to do that .Professor A: Well , if {disfmarker} if you actually take notes as a summary asopposed to n take notes in the sense of taking advantage of the time - stamps . So action item or uh , reminder to send this to so - and - so , blah - blah - blah .Postdoc H: Mm - hmm .Professor A: So that wouldn't be asummary . That would just be {disfmarker} that would b relate to the query side .Grad G: But if we had the CrossPads , we could ask people , you know , if {disfmarker} if something comes up {vocalsound} write itdown and mark it {vocalsound} {pause} somehow ,Postdoc H: Mm - hmm .PhD E: Right . I mean , we {disfmarker} because you 'd have several people with these pads , you could collect different things .Grad G: youknow .Professor A: Right .PhD E: I mean , cuz I tend to take notes which are summaries . And so , you know {disfmarker}PhD F: I mean , the down - side to that is that he sort of indicated that the , uh , quality of{vocalsound} the handwriting recognition was quite poor .Professor A: Well {disfmarker}Grad G: But that 's alright . I don't think there 'd be so many that you couldn't have someone clean it upProfessor A: So{disfmarker}Grad G: pretty easily .Professor A: Yeah . We also could come up with some code for things that people want to do so that {disfmarker} for frequent things .PhD F: Yeah .Professor A: And the other things ,people can write whatever they want . I mean , it 's to some extent , uh , for his benefit . So , if that {disfmarker} you know , if {disfmarker} if we just keep it simple then maybe it 's still useful .PhD F: Right .Grad G:Yeah .Professor D: I just realized we skipped the part that we were saying we were gonna do at the front where we each said who we were .Postdoc H: The roll call .Professor A: Right . I thought you did that on purpose.Professor D: Roll call .Professor A: But anyway , shall we do the roll call ?Professor D: No , not a No , I just {disfmarker} My mind went elsewhere . So , uh , yeah , I 'm Morgan , and where am I ? I 'm on channel three.Grad G: And I 'm Adam Janin on channel A .Postdoc H: I 'm Jane Edwards , I think on channel B .PhD E: I 'm Dan Ellis .PhD F: Eric on channel nine .PhD B: Liz , on channel one .Professor A: Mari on channel zero.Professor C: Katrin on channel two .Postdoc H: Should we have used pseudo - names ? Should we do it a second time with pseudo No . {vocalsound} No .Professor D: I 'm Rocky Raccoon {vocalsound} on channel{disfmarker}PhD E: Let me , uh , turn that off .Grad G: And , uh , do you want to do the P D As and the {pause} P ZPhD E: Oh . PZM nearest , nearest , next nearest . Next one .Postdoc H: Next nearest .PhD E:Furthest .Grad G: Far .PhD E: PDM - right , PZA - right {disfmarker} PDA - right , PDA - left .Postdoc H: OK .PhD E: Thanks .Grad G: Yeah , and eventually once this room gets a little more organized , the Jimlets{comment} will be mounted under the table , and these guys will be permanently mounted somehow . You know , probably with double - sided tape , but {disfmarker} So . You {disfmarker} So we won't have to gothrough that .Professor A: Hmm .Postdoc H: I have a question on protocol in these meetings , which is when you say \" Jimlet \" and the person listening won't know what that is , sh shou How {disfmarker} how do weget {disfmarker} Is that important information ? You know , the Jimlet {disfmarker} I mean , the box that contains the {disfmarker}Professor D: Well , I mean , suppose we broaden out and go to a range of meetingsbesides just these internal ones . There 's gonna be lots of things that any group of people who know each other have in column {disfmarker} common {comment} that we will not know .Professor A: Right .Postdoc H:Mm - hmm .Professor A: Right .Postdoc H: OK .Professor A: So the there will be jargon that we he There 'll be transcription errors .Postdoc H: Good .Professor D: Yeah .Postdoc H: OK .Professor D: I mean , we{disfmarker} we were originally gonna do this with VLSI design , and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and the reason we didn't go straight to that was because immediately ninety percent of what we heard would be{vocalsound} jargon to {disfmarker} to us . So .Grad G: Well , that was just one of the reasons . But , yeah , definitely .Professor D: Yeah .Postdoc H: OK . Good .Professor D: That {disfmarker} that 's right . Therewere others of course . Yeah .Postdoc H: OK , so we were on the data collection {pause} {comment} and the summary issue .Professor D: Right . We can go back .Professor A: So , uh , u u So , actually there 's kind ofthree issues . There 's the CrossPad issue . Should we do it and , if so , what 'll we have them do ? Um , do we have s people write summaries ? Everybody or one person ? And then , do we ask people for how theywould query things ? Is that {disfmarker}PhD F: There 's {disfmarker} there 're sub - problems in that , in that where {disfmarker} or when do you actually ask them about that ?Professor A: Right .PhD F: I mean ,that was {disfmarker} One thing I was thinking about was is that Dan said earlier that , you know , maybe two weeks later , which is when you would want to query these things , you might ask them then .Professor A:Right .PhD F: But there 's a problem with that in that if {pause} you 're not {disfmarker} If you don't have an interactive system , it 's gonna be hard to go beyond sort of the first level of question .Professor A: Right.PhD F: Right . And furth id explore the data further .Professor A: Right .PhD F: So .Professor D: There 's {disfmarker} there 's another problemGrad G: And {disfmarker}Professor D: which is , um , we certainly dowant to branch out beyond , uh , uh , recording meetings about Meeting Recorder . And , uh , once we get out beyond our little group , the people 's motivation factor , uh , reduces enormously . And if we start givingthem a bunch of other things to do , how {disfmarker} you know , we {disfmarker} we did n you know another meeting here for another group and {disfmarker} and , uh , they were fine with it . But if we 'd said , \" OK, now all eight of you have to {disfmarker} {vocalsound} have to come up with , uh , the summar \"Grad G: Well , I asked them to and none of them did .Professor D: t See ? There we go .Grad G: So , I {disfmarker} Iasked them to send me ideas for queries after the meetingPostdoc H: Mm - hmm .Professor A: They {disfmarker}Grad G: and no one ever did .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Grad G: I didn't follow up either .Professor A: Yeah.Grad G: So I didn't track them down and say \" please do th do it now \" . But , uh , no one spontaneously provided anything .Professor D: I I 'm worried that if you did {disfmarker} even if you did push them into it , it{disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it might be semi - random ,Professor A: Right .Professor D: uh , as opposed to what you 'd really want to know if you were gonna use this thing .PhD E: Right .Professor A: OK .Grad G: Ijust don't know how else to generate the queries other than getting an expert to actually listen to the meeting and say \" that 's important , that might be a query \" .Postdoc H: Tsk . Well , there is this other thing whichy which you were alluding to earlier , which is , um , there are certain key words like , you know , \" action item \" and things like that , which could be used in , uh , t to some degree finding the structure .Professor A:Yeah .PhD E: Although {disfmarker}Professor A: WPostdoc H: And {disfmarker} and I also , um , was thinking , with reference to the n uh , note - taking , the advantage there is that you get structure without theperson having to do something artificial later . And the fir third thing I wanted to say is the summaries afterwards , um , I think they should be recorded instead of written because I think that , um , it would take solong for people to write that I think you wouldn't get as good a summary .Professor A: How about this idea ? That normally at most meetings somebody is delegated to be a note - taker .Postdoc H: Yeah , good . Goodpoint .Professor A: And {disfmarker} So why don't we just use the notes that somebody takes ?Postdoc H: Yeah .Grad G: I mean , that gives you a summary but it doesn't really {disfmarker} How do you generatequeries from that ?PhD E: Well . But , I mean , maybe a summary is one of the things we 'd want from the output of the system .Postdoc H: Yeah .Professor A: Right .PhD E: Right ? I mean , they 're something . It 's a{disfmarker} a kind of output you 'd like .PhD B: Actually {disfmarker} And so {disfmarker}Grad G: Uh , James and I were talking about this during one of the breaks . And the problem with that is , I 'm definitelygoing to do something with information retrieval even if it 's sort of not full full - bore what I 'm gonna do for my thesis .Professor A: Right .Grad G: I 'm gonna do something . I 'm not gonna do anything withsummarization . And so if someone wants to do that , that 's fine , but it 's not gonna be me .Professor D: Well , I think that we {disfmarker} I mean , the {disfmarker} the f the core thing is that you know once we getsome of these issues nailed down , we need to do a bunch of recordingsProfessor A: Well {disfmarker}Professor D: and send them off to IBM and get a bunch of transcriptions even if they 're slightly flawedGrad G: Yep.Professor D: or need some other {disfmarker} And then we 'll have some data there .Professor A: Yeah .Professor D: And then , i i we can start l looking and thinking , what do we want to know about these things and{disfmarker} at the very least .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor A: Yeah {disfmarker}PhD B: I actually want to say something about the note pad . So , if you could sense just when people are writing , and you tell themnot to doodle , or try not to {pause} be using that for other purposes , {comment} and each person has a note pad . They just get it when they come in the room . Then you c you can just have a fff {comment} plot ofwh you know , who 's writing when .Professor D: Hmm .PhD B: That 's all you {disfmarker}PhD E: Activity . Yeah .PhD B: And , you can also have notes of the meeting . But I bet that 's {disfmarker} that will allow youto go into the {disfmarker} sort of the hot places where people are writing things down .Professor D: Mm - hmm .Grad G: Oh , I see .PhD B: I mean , you can tell when you 're in a meeting when everybody stops towrite something down that something was just said .Professor A: Mm - hmm .PhD B: It may not be kept in the later summary , but at that point in time is was something that was important .Postdoc H: Mm - hmm .PhDB: And that wouldn't take any extra {disfmarker}Postdoc H: That 's a nice idea .Professor A: Mm - hmm .PhD B: Or someone could just pu you could just put your hand on the padProfessor D: It {disfmarker}ProfessorC: Mm - hmm .PhD B: and go like that if you want to . It 's {disfmarker}Professor D: That 's a good idea but that doesn't {disfmarker} Maybe I 'm missing something , but that doesn't get to the question of how wecome up with queries , right ?Professor A: Well , what it does {disfmarker}PhD B: Well , then you can go to the points where the {disfmarker} you could actually go to those points in time and find out what they weretalking about . And you rProfessor A: Well , what it does is provide a different {disfmarker}Professor D: Yeah .PhD B: And {disfmarker}Grad G: Uh , yProfessor A: I {disfmarker} I think it 's an interesting thing . I don'tthink it gets at the {disfmarker} the queries per - se , but it does give us an information fusion sort of thing that , you know , you wanna i say \" what were the hot - points of the meeting ? \"PhD B: Yeah .Professor D:That {disfmarker} that 's what I mean , is that I think it gets at something interesting but if we were asking the question , which I thought we were , of {disfmarker} of {disfmarker} of , um , \" how do we figure outwhat 's the nature of the queries that people are gonna want to ask of such a system ? \" , knowing what 's important doesn't tell you what people are going to be asking .PhD B: But I bet it 's a good {pause} superset ofit .Professor D: Does it ?Professor A: Well , yeah .PhD E: Well , see , there are thProfessor A: I think you could say they 're gonna ask about , uh , when {disfmarker} uh , when did so - and - so s talk about blah . Andat least that gives you the word {pause} that they might run a query on .PhD B: At least you can find the locations where there are maybe keywordsProfessor D: Maybe .Grad G: I mean , i this would tell you what thehit is ,PhD B: and {disfmarker}Grad G: not what the query is .Professor A: Right .PhD B: Right , right .Grad G: What {disfmarker}Professor A: It 'll tell you the hit but not the query .PhD B: But I think {disfmarker} Ithink thinking about queries is a little bit dangerous right now .Grad G: And so you could {disfmarker} you can generate a query from the hits ,Professor A: Right .Grad G: but {disfmarker}PhD B: We don't even knowwhat {disfmarker} I mean , if you want to find out what any user will use , that might be true for one domain and one user ,Professor D: Mm - hmm .PhD B: but I mean a different domain and a different user{disfmarker}Postdoc H: Mm - hmm .Professor D: Yeah , but we 're just looking for a place to start with thatPhD B: Um .Professor D: because , you know , th what {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what James is gonnabe doing is looking at the user - interface and he 's looking at the query in {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} i We {disfmarker} we have five hours of pilot data of the other stuff but we have zero hours of {disfmarker} of{disfmarker} of queries . So he 's just sort of going \" where {disfmarker} where do I {disfmarker} where do I start ? \"Professor A: w Well , th you could do {disfmarker} I think the summaries actually may help get usthere ,Professor D: OK .Professor A: for a couple reasons . One , if you have a summary {disfmarker} if you have a bunch of summaries , you can do a word frequency count and see what words come up in differenttypes of meetings .Professor D: Mm - hmm .Professor A: So \" action item \" is gonna come up whether it 's a VLSI meeting , or speech meeting , or whatever . So words that come up in different types of meetings maybe something that you would want to query about .Grad G: Mm - hmm .Professor A: Um , the second thing you could possibly do with it is just run a little pilot experiment with somebody saying \" here 's a summary of ameeting , what questions might you want to ask about it to go back ? \"Grad G: Yeah , I think that 's difficult because then they 're not gonna ask the questions that are in the summary .Professor A: Well{disfmarker}Grad G: But , I think it would give {disfmarker}Professor A: That 's one possi one possible scenario , though , is you have the summary ,Grad G: Mm - hmm .Professor A: and you want to ask questions toget more detail .Grad G: th Yeah , I think it has to be a participant . Well , it doesn't have to be . OK . So that {disfmarker} that is another use of Meeting Recorder that we haven't really talked about , which is forsomeone else , as opposed to as a {pause} remembrance agent , which is what had been my primary thought in the information retrieval part of it would be . But , uh , I guess if you had a meeting participant , theycould use the summary to refresh themselves about the meeting and then make up queries . But it 's not {disfmarker}Professor D: Mm - hmm .Grad G: I don't know how to do it if {disfmarker} until you have a system.PhD B: The summary is actually gonna drive the queries then .Professor A: Mmm .PhD E: Yeah .PhD B: I mean , your research is going to be very circular .Professor A: Yeah .Grad G: Yeah , that {disfmarker} that 'swhat I was saying .PhD E: But th there is this , um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} There is this class of queries , which are the things that you didn't realize were important at the time but somein retrospect you think \" oh , hang on , didn't we talk about that ? \" And it 's something that didn't appear in the summary but you {disfmarker}Professor A: Mm - hmm .PhD E: And that 's kind of what this kind of , uh ,complete data capture is kind of nicest for .Professor A: Right . Right .PhD B: Right .PhD E: Cuz it 's the things that you wouldn't have bothered to make an effort to record but they get recorded . So , I mean{disfmarker} And th there 's no way of generating those , u u until we just {disfmarker} until they actually occur .PhD B: But you could always post - hoc label them .PhD E: You know , it 's like {disfmarker} Right ,right . Exactly .PhD B: Yeah . Yeah .PhD E: But I mean , it 's difficult to sort of say \" and if I was gonna ask four questions about this , what would they be ? \" Those aren't the kind of things that come up .Grad G: But atleast it would get us started .PhD E: Oh , yeah . Yeah , sure .Postdoc H: I also think that w if {disfmarker} if you can use the summaries as an indication of the important points of the {disfmarker} of the meeting , then"}
{"doc_id":"doc_176","qid":"","text":"Grad G: Time .Grad C: Thanks .Grad G: Are you Fey ?Undergrad D: I am Fey , yeah .Grad G: Oh .Grad B: What day is today ?Undergrad D: Hi .Grad G: Hi . I think we 've met before , like , I remember talking to youabout Aspect or something like that at some point or other .Undergrad D: A couple times yeah .Grad F: It 's the uh twenty {disfmarker} nineteenth .Grad B: Nineteenth ?Undergrad D: That 's right , yeah .Grad G: So.Undergrad D: And you were my GSI briefly , until I dropped the class .Grad F: Grad B: Right , right .Grad G: Oh that 's right .Undergrad D: But .Grad G: Well .Grad C: OK , wh whGrad G: No offense .Grad C: Yeah.Grad G: Like .Grad C: OK . Some in some introductions are in order .Grad G: Oh , OK sorry .Grad C: OK .Grad G: Getting ahead of myself .Grad C: So . Um . For those who don't know {disfmarker} Everyone knows me, this is great . Um , apart from that , sort of the old gang , Johno and Bhaskara have been with us from {disfmarker} from day oneGrad G: Yay !Grad E: Hi .Grad C: and um they 're engaged in {disfmarker} in variousactivities , some of which you will hear about today . Ami is um our counselor and spiritual guidance and um also interested in problems concerning reference of the more complex type ,PhD A: Well .Grad E: Oh wow.Grad C: and um he sits in as a interested participant and helper . Is that a good characterization ?PhD A: u That 's pretty good , I think .Grad C: I don't know .PhD A: Yeah . Thanks .Grad C: OK . Keith is not technicallyone of us yet ,Grad E: Not yet .Grad C: ha - ha . but um it 's too late for him now .Grad G: \" One of us . \"Grad C: So .Grad E: Yeah right . I 've got the headset on after all .Grad C: Um . Officially I guess he will bejoining us in the summer .Grad E: yes .Grad C: And um hopefully it is by {disfmarker} by means of Keith that we will be able to get a b a better formal and a better semantic um idea of what a construction is and umhow we can make it work for us . Additionally his interest um surpasses um English because it also entails German , an extra capability of speaking and writing and understanding and reading that language . And um , isthere anyone who doesn't know Nancy ? Do you {disfmarker} do you know Nancy ?Grad G: Me ?Grad E: I know Nancy .Grad G: Mm - hmm .Grad B: I made that joke already , Nancy , sadly .Grad C: OK .Grad G: What?Grad B: The \" I don't know myself \" joke .Grad G: You did ? When ?Grad B: Uh before you came in .Grad G: Oh .Grad E: Man !Grad G: About me or you ?Grad B: About me .Grad G: OK . {vocalsound} OK .PhD A: Youcould do it about you .Grad B: Yeah .Grad G: Well I didn't know . I didn't mean to be humor copying , but OK , sorry . Yes , I know myself . It 's OK .Grad C: OK .Grad G: It 's a {disfmarker}Grad C: And um Fey is withus as of six days ago officially ?Undergrad D: Officially ,Grad C: Officially ,Undergrad D: yeah .Grad C: but in reality already um much much longer and um um next to some {disfmarker} some more or less bureaucraticuh stuff with the {disfmarker} the data collection she 's also the wizard in the data collection Um ,Grad G: Of Oz .Undergrad D: It 's very exciting .Grad C: we 're sticking with the term \" wizard \" ,Undergrad D: Yes.Grad C: OK .Undergrad D: Yes .Grad C: and umGrad G: Not witch - like .Grad B: Wizardette .Grad E: Wizard .Grad F: Wizardess .Grad C: Sorceress , I think .Grad G: OK .Undergrad D: Wizard .Grad C: wizard uh by bypopular voteGrad G: OK .Grad C: umGrad G: Didn't take a vote ? OK .Grad C: OK , um , why don't we get started on that subject anyways . Um , so we 're about to collect data and um the uh s the following things havehappened since we last met . When will we three meet again ? And umGrad G: More than three of us .Grad C: what happened is that um , \" A \" , {comment} there was some confusion between you and Jerry with the{disfmarker} that leading to your talking to Catherine Snow , and he was uh he {disfmarker} he agreed completely that some something confusing happened . Um his idea was to get sort of the l the lists of mayors ofthe department , the students . It {disfmarker} it 's exactly how you interpreted it , sort of sGrad E: The list of majors in the department ?Undergrad D: M m Majors ?Grad C: Ma - majors , majors .Undergrad D: Majors?Grad C: \" Mayors \" .Undergrad D: OK , mayor {disfmarker}Grad C: Majors .Undergrad D: Something I don't know about theseGrad G: The department has many mayors .Grad C: Majors and um just sending the{disfmarker} the little write - up that we did on to those email listsUndergrad D: OK . OK . Yeah , yeah , yeah . But {disfmarker} Yeah .Grad C: uh {disfmarker}Undergrad D: So it was really Carol Snow who wasconfused , not me and not Jerry .Grad C: Yep , yep , yep . OK . So . So , that is uh {disfmarker}Undergrad D: That 's good . So I should still do that .Grad C: Yep .Undergrad D: OK .Grad C: And {disfmarker}UndergradD: And using the thing that you wrote up .Grad C: Yep .Undergrad D: OK .Grad C: Wonderful . And um we have a little description of asking peop subjects to contact Fey for you know recruiting them for our thing andum there was some confusion as to the consent form , which is basically that {disfmarker} that what what you just signedGrad G: Right .Grad C: and since we have one already um {disfmarker}Grad G: Did Jerry talk toyou about maybe using our class ? the students in the undergrad class that he 's teaching ?Grad C: Um well he said um we {disfmarker} definitely \" yes \" ,Grad G: eGrad C: however there is always more people in a{disfmarker} in a facul uh in a department than are just taking his class or anybody else 's class at the momentGrad G: Yeah .Grad C: and one should sort of reach out and try and get them all .Grad G: OK , but th Iguess it 's that um people in his class cover a different set so {disfmarker} than the c is the CogSci department that you were talking about ?Undergrad D: I guess . SeeGrad G: uh reaching out to ?Undergrad D: that 'swhat I suggested to him , that people like {disfmarker} like Jerry and George and et cetera just {disfmarker}Grad G: Cuz we have you know people from other areasGrad C: Yeah .Grad G: advertise in their classes aswell .Undergrad D: Yeah or even I could {disfmarker} you know I could do the actual {disfmarker}Grad C: Mm - hmm .Grad G: Cuz I mean I {disfmarker} I know how to contact our students ,Undergrad D: That 'sgenerally the way it 's done .Grad G: so if there 's something that you 're sending out you can also s um send me a copy ,Grad C: Yeah .Grad G: me or Bhaskara could {disfmarker} either of us could post it to uh is it{disfmarker}Undergrad D: A mailing list .Grad G: if it 's a general solicitation that you know is just contact you then we can totally pro post it to the news groupGrad C: Mm - hmm . Yeah .Undergrad D: Yeah .Grad G:so .Grad C: Do it . Yeah .Undergrad D: That 's {disfmarker}Grad G: OK , so you 'll send it or something so .Grad C: As a matter of fact , if you {disfmarker}Undergrad D: I can send it .Grad C: if {disfmarker}UndergradD: I 'll send it ,Grad G: You can send it to me .Grad C: Now , iUndergrad D: yeah .Grad G: OK . Don't worry , we {disfmarker} this doesn't concern you anymore , Robert .Grad C: How {disfmarker} however I suggestthat if you {disfmarker} if you look at your email carefully you may think {disfmarker} you may find that you already have it .Grad G: It 's fine . Oops . Already ? Really ?Grad C: Maybe .Undergrad D: ProbabGrad G:Oops .Grad C: OK . W we 'll see .Grad G: I don't remember getting anything .Grad C: Anyhow , um the uh Yeah , not only Also we will talk about Linguistics and of course Computer Science .Grad G: Mm - hmm .Grad C:Um and then , secondly , we had , you may remember , um the problem with the re - phrasing , that subject always re - phrase sort of the task that uh we gave them ,Grad B: Right .Grad C: and so we had a meetingon Friday talking about how to avoid that , and it proved finally fruitful in the sense that we came up with a new scenario for how to get the {disfmarker} the subject m to really have intentions and sort of to act uponthose , and um there the idea is now that next actually we {disfmarker} we need to hire one more person to actually do that job because it {disfmarker} it 's getting more complicated . So if you know anyone interestedin {disfmarker} in what i 'm about to describe , tell that person to {disfmarker} to write a mail to me or Jerry soon , fast . Um {vocalsound} the idea now is to sort of come up with a high level of sort of abstract tasks \"go shopping \" um \" take in uh a batch of art \" um \" visit {disfmarker} do some sightseeing \" blah - blah - blah - blah - blah , sort of analogous to what Fey has started in {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} in compiling{disfmarker} compiling here and already {disfmarker} she has already gone to the trouble of {disfmarker} of anchoring it with specific um o {comment} um entities and real world places you will find in Heidelberg .And um . So out of these f s these high level categories the subject can pick a couple , such as if {disfmarker} if there is a cop uh a category in emptying your roll of film , the person can then decide \" OK , I wanna dothat at this place \" , sort of make up their own itinerary a and {disfmarker} and tasks and the person is not allowed to take sort of this h high level category list with them , but uh the person is able to take notes on amap that we will give him and the map will be a tourist 's sort of schematic representation with {disfmarker} with symbols for the objects . And so , the person can maybe make a mental note that \" ah yeah I wanted togo shopping here \" and \" I wanted to maybe take a picture of that \" and \" maybe um eat here \" and then goes in and solves the task with the system , IE {comment} Fey , and um and we 're gonna try out that{disfmarker} Any questions ?Grad G: so um y you 'll have those say somewhere what their intention was {disfmarker} so you still have the {disfmarker} the nice thing about having data where you know what theactual intention was ?Grad C: Mm - hmm . Yeah .Grad G: But they will um {disfmarker} There 's nothing that says you know \" these are the things you want to do \" so they 'll say \" well these are the things I want to do\" and {disfmarker} Right , so they 'll have a little bit more natural interaction ?Grad C: Hopefully .Grad G: OK . Mm - hmm .Grad F: So they 'll be given this map , which means that they won't have to like ask thesystem for in for like high level information about where things are ?Grad C: Yeah it 's a schematic tourist map . So it 'll be uh i it 'll still require the {disfmarker} that information and AnGrad G: It w it doesn't have likestreets on it that would allow them to figure out their way {disfmarker}Grad C: N not {disfmarker} not {disfmarker} not really the street network . Nuh .Grad G: OK .Grad E: So you 're just saying like what part oftown the things are in or whatever ?Grad C: Yeah a and um the map is more a means for them to have the buildings and their names and maybe some ma ma major streets and their namesGrad G: Mm - hmm .Grad C:and we want to maybe ask them , if you have {disfmarker} get it sort of isolated street the {disfmarker} the , whatever , \" River Street \" , and they know that {disfmarker} they have decided that , yes , that 's wherethey want to do this kind of action um that they have it with them and they can actually read them or sort of have the label for the object because it 's too hard to memorize all these st strange German names . Andthen we 're going to have another {disfmarker} we 're gonna have w another trial run IE the first with that new setup tomorrow at two and we have a real interesting subject which is Ron Kay for who {disfmarker}those who know him , he 's the founder of ICI . So he 'll {disfmarker} he 's around seven seventy years old , or something .Grad G: I didn't know he was the founder . That 's {disfmarker} OK .Grad C: And he alsoapproached me and he offered to help {vocalsound} um our project and he was more thinking about some high level thinking tasks and {vocalsound} I said \" sure we need help you can come in as a subject \" and hesaid \" OK \" . So that 's what 's gonna happen , tomorrow , data .Grad G: Using this new {disfmarker} new um plan ,Grad C: New {disfmarker} new set up .Grad G: OK .Grad C: Yeah . Which I 'll hopefully sort of scrapetogether t But , thanks to Fey , we already have sort of a nice blueprint and I can work with that . Questions ? Comments on that ? If not , we can move on . No ? No more questions ?Grad E: I 'm not sure I totallyunderstand thisGrad G: So what 's the s this is what you made , Fey ?Grad C: Hmm ?Grad E: but {disfmarker} I 'm not sure I totally understand everything that 's being talked aboutGrad G: Like so {disfmarker} So it's just based on like the materials you had about Heidelberg .Grad C: Um are you familiar with {disfmarker} with the {disfmarker} with the very rough setup of the data ?Grad E: but I {disfmarker} I imagine I 'll c justcatch on .Undergrad D: Based on the web site , yeah , at the {disfmarker}Grad G: Oh OK there 's a web siteGrad C: experiment ?Undergrad D: Right .Grad G: and then you could like um figure out what thecateUndergrad D: It 's a tourist information web site ,Grad E: Uh , this is where they 're supposed to {disfmarker}Undergrad D: so .Grad G: OK .Grad C: Talk to a machine and it breaks down and then the human comeson .Grad G: OK .Grad E: Yeah . Yeah .Grad C: The question is just sort of how do we get the tasks in their head that they have an intention of doing something and have a need to ask the system for something withoutgiving them sort of a clear wording or phrasing of the task .Grad E: OK . OK . OK .Grad C: Because what will happen then is that people repeat {disfmarker} repeat , {comment} or as much as they can , of thatphrasing .Grad E: OK .Grad G: Hmm . Um , are you worried about being able to identify {disfmarker}Grad E: OK .Grad G: Um . The {disfmarker} The goals that we 've d you guys have been talking about are this{disfmarker} these you know identifying which of three modes um their question uh concerns .Grad C: Mm - hmm .Grad G: So it 's like the Enter versus View {disfmarker}Grad C: Yeah , we {disfmarker} we{disfmarker} we will sort of get a protocol of the prior interaction ,Grad G: Uh - huh .Grad C: right ? That 's where the instructor , the person we are going to hire , um and the subjects sit down together with these highlevel thingsGrad G: Uh - huh . Mm - hmm .Grad C: and so th the q first question for the subject is , \" so these are things , you know , we thought a tourist can do . Is there anything that interests you ? \"Grad G: Mm -hmm .Grad C: And the person can say \" yeah , sure sh this is something I would do . I would go shopping \" . Yeah ? and then we can sort of {disfmarker} this s instructor can say \" well , uh then you {disfmarker} youmay want to find out how to get over hereGrad G: Mm - hmm .Grad C: because this is where the shopping district is \" .Grad G: So the interaction beforehand will give them hints about how specific or how whateverthough the kinds of questions that are going to ask during the actual session ?Grad C: No . Just sort of {disfmarker} OK , what {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what would you like to buy and then um OK there youwanna buy a whatever cuckoos clocksGrad G: Yeah .Grad C: OK and the there is a store there .Grad E: Mm - hmm .Grad C: So the task then for that person is t finding out how to get there , right ?Grad G: Mm - hmm.Grad C: That 's sort of what 's left .Grad G: Mm - hmm .Grad C: And we know that the intention is to enter because we know that the person wants to buy a cuckoos clock .Grad G: OK , that 's what I mean so like thosetasks are all gonna be um unambiguous about which of the three modes .Grad C: Hopefully .Grad G: Right . OK . So .PhD A: Well , so the idea is to try to get the actual phrasing that they might use and try to interfereas little as possible with their choice of words .Grad C: Hopefully .Grad G: t {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}{vocalsound} {vocalsound} That they 'll be here ?Grad C: Yes . In a sense that 's exactly the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the idea ,PhD A: uh uhGrad C: which is never possible in a {disfmarker} in a s in a labsituation ,PhD A: Well , u u the one experiment th that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that I 've read somewhere , it was {disfmarker} they u used pictures .Grad C: nuh ?PhD A: So to {disfmarker} to uh actually umuh specify the {disfmarker} the tasks .Grad C: Yep .Grad E: Mm - hmm .PhD A: Uh , but you know i iGrad C: Yeah . We had exactly that on our list of possible way things so we {disfmarker} uh I even made a sort of asilly thing how that could work , how you control you are here you {disfmarker} you want to know how to get someplace , and this is the place and it 's a museum and you want to do some and {disfmarker} and{disfmarker} and there 's a person looking at pictures . So , you know , this is exactly getting someplace with the intention of entering and looking at pictures .PhD A: Right .Grad C: However , not only was{disfmarker} the common census were {disfmarker} among all participants of Friday 's meeting was it 's gonna be very laborious to {disfmarker} to make these drawings for each different things ,PhD A: Right .Grad C:all the different actions , if at all possible , and also people will get caught up in the pictures . So all of a sudden we 'll get descriptions of pictures in there .PhD A: Right .Grad C: And people talking about pictures andpictorial representationsGrad E: Hmm .Grad C: and {disfmarker} umPhD A: Right .Grad C: I would s I would still be willing to try it .PhD A: I mean , I I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm not saying it 's necessary but {disfmarker}but uh i uh uh i {vocalsound} you might be able to combine you know text uh and {disfmarker} and some sort of picture and also uh I think it {disfmarker} it will be a good idea to show them the text and kind of chewthe task and then take the test away {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the text awayGrad C: Mm - hmm . Yeah .PhD A: so that they are not uh guided by {disfmarker}by by what you wrote ,Grad C: We will {disfmarker}PhD A: but can come up with their {disfmarker} with their own {disfmarker}Grad C: Yeah , they will have no more linguistic matter in front of them when they enterthis room .PhD A: Right .Grad C: OK . Then I suggest we move on to the {disfmarker} to we have um uh the EDU Project , let me make one more general remark , has sort of two {disfmarker} two side uh um actions ,its um action items that we 're do dealing with , one is modifying the SmartKom parser and the other one is modifying the SmartKom natural language generation module . And um this is not too complicated but I 'mjust mentioning it {disfmarker} put it in the framework because this is something we will talk about now . Um , I have some news from the generation , do you have news from the parser ?Grad F: Um , not{disfmarker}Grad C: By that look I {disfmarker}Grad F: Yes , uh , I would really p It would be better if I talked about it on Friday .Grad C: OK .Grad F: If that 's OK .Grad C: Yeah , wonderful . Um , did you run intoproblems or did you run into not h having time ?Grad F: Yeah . But not {disfmarker} not any time part .Grad C: OK , so that 's good . That 's better than running into problems .Grad F: OK .Grad C: And um I{disfmarker} I do have some good news for the natural language generation however . And the good news is I guess it 's done . Uh , meaning that Tilman Becker , who does the German one , actually took out sometime and already did it in English for us . And so the version he 's sending us is already producing the English that 's needed to get by in version one point one .Grad F: So I take it that was similar to the {disfmarker}what {disfmarker} what we did for the parsing ?Grad C: Yeah . I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} even though the generator is a little bit more complex and it would have been , not changing one hundredwords but maybe four hundred words ,Grad F: OK .Grad C: but it would have beenGrad F: OK .Grad C: but this {disfmarker} this is I guess good news , and the uh {disfmarker} the time and especially Bhaskara and uh{disfmarker} and um {disfmarker} Oh do I have it here ? No . The time is now pretty much fixed . It 's the last week of April until the fourth of May so it 's twenty - sixth through fourth . That they 'll be here . So it 's{disfmarker} it 's extremely important that the two of you are also present in this town during that time .Grad B: Wait , what {disfmarker} what are the days ? April twenty - sixth to the {disfmarker} May fourth ?GradC: Yeah , something like that .Grad B: I 'll probably be here .Grad C: It 's {disfmarker}Grad F: Yeah .Grad E: You will be here .Grad C: There is a d Isn't finals coming up then pretty much after that ?Grad F: Finals was"}
{"doc_id":"doc_177","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Good .Industrial Designer: Beep . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Oh .Project Manager: So well uhUser Interface: What ?Project Manager: welcome everyone .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Umas you may have noticed I uhUser Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: created separate folders because it was uh tending to get a little busy in our uh shared project documentsuh folder .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: I don't know if everybody uh put their own uh documents in the right folder , which is for now the detailed design meeting .Marketing: That's new one ?Project Manager:Yeah .User Interface: We didn't make any uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Uh , we should save that one . {vocalsound}User Interface: Oh in {disfmarker}Project Manager: Then I'll move this one .User Interface:Didn't we just do that ?Industrial Designer: Yeah , save in the folder . Save as project .User Interface: Oh .Project Manager: Oh no , this is just one big document , so you can leave that wherever it is .IndustrialDesigner: Oh , okay .Project Manager: {vocalsound} And we have a evaluation left here .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Hmm hmm .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: Agenda .ProjectManager: Well not main documents this time . Oh uh yes .User Interface: Hmm ?Project Manager: I have it open myself I guess . Um well the detailed design meeting {disfmarker} Huh ? We're finally gettingsomewhere hopefully .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um what are we going to do ? I've opened it already . Um I'm still going to take some minutes , and if I'm right ,you two are going to give a prototype presentation ?Industrial Designer: Oh , sorry .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {gap}Project Manager: Aren't you ?User Interface: We could . {vocalsound}ProjectManager: Yes , you are .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: And uh m did you do something with evaluation criteria ?Marketing: Yep . Yep .Project Manager: Good . And we have a correctagenda . And uh then we have to look at something which is less nice , the finance uh aspect , whether we can afford what we have designed ,User Interface: Oops . {vocalsound}Project Manager: and if we can we canuh commence the final part which is the production or project evaluation , how did we work together and what are the results , and how happy are we with those . Okay , well finance uh will be later . Now I'd like to givethe word to you two .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Okay .User Interface: {vocalsound} Well uhIndustrial Designer: Get up stand up . {gap} just {disfmarker}User Interface: we made a prototype.Industrial Designer: 'Kay .User Interface: We first start with the overall uh {disfmarker} This is about the total remote control .Industrial Designer: View .User Interface: We made it green .Industrial Designer: Justexample colour ,User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: so uh there's one of the colours we would like to uh see in our prototype .User Interface: It's a fresh colour . And uh the screen light blue . Oh uh this the scrollbutton and the microphone on the on the sides here under . And the R_ and R_ logo , it just says R_ and R_ now , but uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Okay ?User Interface: Any questions so far ?{vocalsound}Marketing: Big microphone .Industrial Designer: {gap} yeah ,User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: just uh just an idea about how to m th that could also be possible .Marketing: Oh okay . That's theplace where it's going to be , not the size . {gap}User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Uh well , it's an idea in a {disfmarker} so .User Interface: Oh y you {disfmarker} perhaps you should make it a bit big , sopeople know it's there and uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Do not forget it .User Interface: Uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: To function it it doesn't really have to be sm uh big of course.User Interface: Hmm .Marketing: Yeah , okay . Of course .Industrial Designer: The microphone could be just a minor uh hole uh on the left uh button .Marketing: Mm . Mm , th yeah .Industrial Designer: OkayumMarketing: Small .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} we also made some uh ideas about how uh the options menu would work . Uh using the scroll button on sides uh y uh I uh um {gap} {disfmarker}User Interface:You push the scroll buttonIndustrial Designer: Yeah , you push the scroll buttonUser Interface: and it's claps out if there's a {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and a drop down menu or a pull out menucomes out and uh you get uh you get the options uh becoming available . For example uh T_V_ settings , uh remote settings , et cetera .User Interface: Remote settings , et cetera . Yeah .Industrial Designer: So uh youcan scroll down too with the scroll uh button , uh as you can see {disfmarker} oh , it's here , just push it in , uh the menu comes out like this and uh i it all becomes visible . Um {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah . Andyou could also touch it so that it comes out ,Industrial Designer: Yeah , that's cUser Interface: and and use the the the scroll thing as a {disfmarker} with your fingers .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Indeed .User Interface:Yes .Industrial Designer: Okay , um it's also uh nice to see that um we made a small uh menu , uh the options menu uh becoming available when pressing the uh scroll uh button , and the opportunity to use the teletext, whi which is used uh {disfmarker} which should still be used and we think that it's uh very handy to put it uh not uh under the options menu , but in uh {disfmarker} Yes . In an apart uh {disfmarker}User Interface:Yeah .Project Manager: So a separate button for for text ,Industrial Designer: In a separate button , yeah . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: okay .User Interface: Perhaps we should use the teletextsign in p yeah .Industrial Designer: A sign , yeah , just like {disfmarker} Okay , indeed .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Okay ,User Interface: Forgot . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: we can uh modify thatlater . Okay . Would you like to make any comments about next uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Uh well , this is the total interface uh that f of the L_C_D_ screen . Uh the numbers , which is pretty straight forward . Weput ano an an extra button in . We can erase it , but {disfmarker} It's the button where you can switch channels . {gap} just when you are one and you go to two , you can {disfmarker} or if you go to five , you can goback to one with that button . Yeah , that one , yeah .Industrial Designer: Previous page , yeah , indeed .User Interface: It has a name . And uh uh we put that in ,Industrial Designer: Oh my God .User Interface: Ithought it would be handy there . Uh this the one number or two numbers button . Below that , the page and the sound . And uh in the middle the the mute . Uh battery indicator . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} It's quite large .User Interface: It's {vocalsound} it's a bit big .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} And this is the uh the on off uh knop , the stand by uhknop . Or at least it should look like it . And the options uh of teletext .Industrial Designer: Okay . You can see very clearly now that the uh teletext and options menu isn't uh taking uh much uh {disfmarker} uh it'staking much part of the screen , so it's very uh {disfmarker} when you uh {vocalsound} when you use it , doesn't uh become irritating to see .User Interface: Huh .Industrial Designer: 'Cause if you put it on the top youalways get see the the options menu . 'Cause people regularly uh read from left top to right down ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: so {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah . Well this about it , I think.Industrial Designer: Okay . Huh .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Thank you . Looks good .User Interface: I will put it back on the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} on the nice green .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Project Manager: And I just missed when I was typing {disfmarker} The R_R_ stands for ?Industrial Designer: {gap}User Interface: That's the logo of the {disfmarker}Project Manager: Logo , okay .{vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah . It's th th right now it's only R_ R_ , but uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay well {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Full screen.Project Manager: I would have recognised it if it were the right colours of course . {vocalsound}Marketing: Shit .User Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Alright . {vocalsound}User Interface: Sorry .{vocalsound}Marketing: 'Kay . {gap}Project Manager: Okay , the evaluation criteria ,User Interface: Oh full screen , yeah {vocalsound} {gap} .Industrial Designer: Huh .Project Manager: huh ?Marketing: Evaluation .'Kay , my task was this time to put up a questionnaire by which we can evaluate the design of the remote control by the questions we {gap} {disfmarker} requirements from the {disfmarker} of the users . My name ,my job , okay .Industrial Designer: My name , my job . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: The methods . Questionnaire with seven point scale from one to seven , from true to false ,User Interface:Right .Marketing: like question , is remote big enough , we can say it's true or it's false by steps . One means absolutely not true , seven {gap} {disfmarker} means true .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: The threeimportant things of refa {vocalsound} {gap} are uh from th of this year is {disfmarker} are ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Sorry ,User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: you used thePowerPoint {gap} {disfmarker}Marketing: is the remote control fancy enough ,User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: is it in innovative enough , and is it easy enough to use . And then evaluation itself . Uh .User Interface:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: What ? {vocalsound}Marketing: So .Industrial Designer: Bling .Marketing: Okay .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: First question . Is the design fancy enough ?User Interface: Well{disfmarker}Marketing: Project Manager , what do you think ?Project Manager: Well it's {disfmarker} looks fancy , especially with the green colour . And the the curves which we decided ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Yeah .Marketing: But does it {disfmarker}Project Manager: huh ?Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Only what happened to the single curve we spoke about last meeting ?User Interface: It uh {disfmarker} oh it's inthe background . Oh .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Now uh the single curved idea was uh {disfmarker} Yeah , okay , you ge um {disfmarker}User Interface: Y you should make uh a sideways uh view .IndustrialDesigner: Yeah . The sideways view , uh that that that maUser Interface: It will be , I guess . Oh , we can {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Ho not that pen . {vocalsound} Not that pen . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}{vocalsound}User Interface: OhMarketing: {vocalsound} {gap} {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} WellUser Interface: g {vocalsound} I would {vocalsound} {disfmarker} smart board .Project Manager: itmight work one time , huh . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Suppose so .User Interface: {vocalsound} Uh can I draw here or uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Think .User Interface: Ooh .Industrial Designer:Ah . Oh my God ,Marketing: Yeah , yeah , you can .User Interface: So it would be uh something like this from the side , but with a bit of uh curve here ,Industrial Designer: it works .User Interface: right ?IndustrialDesigner: Yeah , that's the single curve indeed .User Interface: Yeah . So if you v flip it like this .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: Yep .User Interface: Here's {gap} yeah .Industrial Designer: That's not very{disfmarker} i it's also uh very handy if you make a side curve way to make the the remote control very thin at the bottom uh at a bottom at a bottom . Uh make it uh rather thick on the top , because uh on the top ithas uh the screen , which takes uh in some uh space , and the batteries can be located over there ,User Interface: Yeah . So you just make the back of this part a bit bigger ,Industrial Designer: so uh {disfmarker}UserInterface: so that it lays a bit oIndustrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Isn't going to be a little bit heavy at the top ?Industrial Designer: {gap}User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah , that's a bit of problem maybe.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: No .Marketing: With two batteries , the whole print plate and t and top , and if you're holding it quite a lot I think {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah . I think yeah , thebattery should be in here , because it's just nothing ,Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: so if you could {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Okay , indeed . Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .ProjectManager: Okay , but we have to rate uh these things now ?User Interface: 'Cause otherwise I think iMarketing: Yeah , we have to rate .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Is it fancy enough ? True is one , false is seven. So fancy enough means , does it comes to the younger people and the elder people .User Interface: I think it does .Industrial Designer: I think so .User Interface: I if you don't make it green , then the elder peoplewon't won't like it .Industrial Designer: It's pretty fancy .Marketing: I think {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Yeah , I have to agree , all the colour colours don don doesn't matter that m that much now ,User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: {gap} you get thProject Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: it's only design .User Interface: I think it does .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: And the design .Project Manager: Well I think uhespecially because of the microphone and the L_C_D_ screen also .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah . I don't know whether older people will use it , but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Very new thing .Well {disfmarker} Fancy {gap} the old people will .Marketing: So {disfmarker}User Interface: I would make it a two or something .Industrial Designer: {gap}Marketing: A two ?User Interface: Yeah .IndustrialDesigner: {gap} It's true , it's a one . {vocalsound} Very fancy .User Interface: Huh ? Alright , it's a one . {vocalsound} Oh it's a one . {vocalsound}Project Manager: No , it's a two . {vocalsound} Little bit strange wehave to judge that ourselves , huh ?User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah , I n used {disfmarker} I wouldn I should use that one , but it doesn't {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: But it's aone uh {disfmarker} Maybe uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay , no it's two ? True is a one .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Very true , is it very true or isn't that true ?Project Manager: Well I'd say two on a scale{disfmarker}User Interface: Well they think it's very true , but uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: It's very true , because we designed it to be very fancy ,Marketing: Yeah , I think two .User Interface: {vocalsound}Yeah ,Industrial Designer: so {disfmarker}User Interface: but {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: It's very fancy , I think .User Interface: We should perhaps {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Have you ever seen aremote control like this ?Project Manager: No , okay well , that's true . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: No , okay ,User Interface: That not .Industrial Designer: so so it's fancy .Marketing: That's fancy enough .UserInterface: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay , one two .Marketing: Then ?Project Manager: That doesn't matter that much , so make it a one . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah .{vocalsound}Marketing: Okay . Let's give it a two . Is it innovative ?User Interface: I think it is ,Marketing: Enough .Project Manager: YeahUser Interface: because it has an L_C_D_ screen , a mi microphone .ProjectManager: mIndustrial Designer: And uh uh the scroll is rubber ,User Interface: It's from rubber .Marketing: We have for the search function .User Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: so s Eno enough to{gap} I think .Marketing: The scroller a bit {disfmarker} I think it's it's a one yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound} It's a one I think .Industrial Designer: {gap}Marketing: True . Also huh uh-huh {disfmarker} thebuttons , are they easy to find ? That was a big requirement of the old people .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah , because they're right on your screen . So you can use the b the the arrows .They're right on your screen ,Industrial Designer: Huh .User Interface: so I don't know where you'd search .Industrial Designer: With the ones {gap}Marketing: Are all the buttons easy to find ? Not only this buttons ,all the buttons .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Well , I think they are . The options are it {disfmarker} uh little bit harder ,Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: but if youtouch the options then it's uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Take a harder look , yeah , sure .Marketing: I think th it'sIndustrial Designer: It's easier than the regular uh remote control .Marketing: easy tProjectManager: Yeah , and you use these buttons the most ,Marketing: Yeah , I think this is easy now . I think th I think the options buttons are not the the easiest way to toProject Manager: huh ? So {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: Yeah .User Interface: No they're not , but they're they're they are easy to find .Marketing: to handle . True .Industrial Designer: Yeah , they are a lot easier to find than uh th than on the regular remotecontrolsMarketing: I would rate it a {disfmarker}User Interface: Oh .Industrial Designer: where you have to uh find out what {disfmarker} which sign or icon means on uh every button .Marketing: Yeah , okay , that'strue , that's true .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: SoIndustrial Designer: So you have t you have to use the the the manual to understand most {disfmarker}Project Manager: which {disfmarker}Marketing: Butthat's that's vantage of L_C_D_ screen , you can have text .Project Manager: So which number are we going to fill in ?Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: I would say yeah .Industrial Designer: I think it's uh it's atwo , at least .User Interface: Yeah . Yeah ,Project Manager: A two , yeah ?User Interface: you can make it a two .Project Manager: Two , three and {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: It's not perfect , but{disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: what do you think ?Marketing: {vocalsound} I think it's a three .Industrial Designer: A three ?Project Manager: Okay , so we have two , two , three .Industrial Designer:And why is that ?Marketing: I personally think , because I d I don't think i maybe it's easy to use , it has to be easy to find right away . I I think if you have the button at the right , I don't think you can find the optionbutton that easy .User Interface: Yeah , but you don't have t have to use the button on the right . You can touch it .Marketing: You can touch it .User Interface: Yeah . You you can touch options .Industrial Designer: Itsaid bo both the options .Marketing: Yeah , okay , but you have y then you have here s written option on here , the teletext button ,User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: right ?Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Okay ,then okay , good . Then I think also two , yeah .User Interface: You can touch optionsProject Manager: A two , okay ,User Interface: and it's comes out .Project Manager: because we have to {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: A two , a two .Marketing: Yep .User Interface: {vocalsound} The uh the um {disfmarker} Below .Project Manager: It's the box below it ,Industrial Designer: Uh the next question the next question .ProjectManager: huh ?Industrial Designer: Oh my God .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: Otherwise we have two results in one question .User Interface: {vocalsound} It'sdifferent .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay , next question .Marketing: It's easy to use , as well for younger as elderl elderly people .User Interface: For young people I think it's easy to use.Project Manager: {gap}Marketing: Young means sixteen to forty years .Industrial Designer: Yeah , I was {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: And elderly from forty eight to their death.Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: I think it's {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I think it's the most useful uh remote control ever to be manufactured . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} In the entiremankind .Project Manager: Okay , you're very enthusiastic about your own design ,Marketing: Also if you're sixty years old {disfmarker}Project Manager: huh ?Industrial Designer: Yeah , but because it has the regularuh controls , li uh as you can see in the screen now , and uh you don't have all the other options uh always uh on your screen .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: So it's t I think it's really easy to use . You want"}
{"doc_id":"doc_178","qid":"","text":"Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee. We've received apologies for absence from Janet Finch-Saunders, and also from Dawn Bowden, andI'd like to welcome Huw Irranca-Davies, who is substituting for Dawn Bowden. Can I ask Members if there are any declarations of interest, please? No. Okay. We'll move on, then, to our evidence session for our inquiryon school improvement and raising standards. I'd like to welcome Kirsty Williams AM, Minister for Education, and Steve Davies, director of education. Thank you both for attending and for your detailed paper in advanceof the meeting. We've got a lot of ground to cover, so we'll go straight into questions, if that's okay. If I can just start by asking you: to what extent is the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development stillinvolved in the Welsh Government's school improvement journey?Kirsty Williams AM: First of all, can I thank the committee for their invitation this morning, and their interest in this particular area? As you will beaware, on coming into office, the director and I agreed to ask the OECD to do a rapid review of the state of Welsh education at the beginning of this Assembly term. They did that, and the feedback from that workinformed the publication and content of the national mission. I was very clear in the national mission that I would invite the OECD back to review our progress against that mission, and that has happened in the tail endof last year, and the OECD will publish their latest report on Welsh education next month now, in March. So, the expectation is that the report will be published on 23 March, and my intention is to make a statement tothe Chamber on 24 March. The nature of that review is part of our ongoing development of self-evaluation. So, we talk a lot about self-evaluation in the school system. Actually, the continuing relationship with OECD isabout self-evaluation of the entirety of the system and Welsh Government. We don't want to accept our own orthodoxy and just be in a bubble where we are constantly listening to ourselves and those people who mightwant to agree with us or tell us what we want to hear. So, the OECD is our best attempt of having some external verification of where we are. That's a risk for Ministers and for Government, because we want them togive an honest evaluation of where we are, but that's a really important tool for me, to ensure that we're constantly testing ourselves. The nature of that review is that the OECD were able to talk to whoever they felt itwas important to talk to, so that included practitioners on the ground, elements of the middle tier, as well as Welsh Government. And I know, Chair—I hope you'll be pleased to hear this—that the reports of thiscommittee have formed parts of their review, looking at how the Senedd itself has contributed to and has held the Government to account. So, as I said, we expect our report to be published towards the end ofMarch.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you, Minister. Can I ask about the powers under the School Standards and Organisation (Wales) Act 2013, to ask you to tell us about the use of those powers either by WelshGovernment or by local authorities, and how effective you feel that legislation has been?Kirsty Williams AM: Okay. Well, as you'll be aware, local authorities have quite extensive powers of intervention in schools if theyfeel that is necessary. If I'm honest, I think there's a mixed picture, with some local authorities using those powers not on a regular basis, but obviously demonstrating a willingness to use those powers. There are otherlocal authorities who don't seem to have used them. Since that legislation came into being, there have been a number of reasons, because of course a local authority has to give a reason for using those powers ofintervention. They usually focus on standards, but sometimes they focus on a breakdown in governance arrangements, perhaps, or a failure or a breakdown in financial management. So, sometimes the budgetaryissues trigger an intervention power. And the types of interventions that have been used have included, in some cases, appointing additional governors to governing bodies, or suspending a school's delegated budget sothe local authority takes on, then, financial control of that particular school, or sometimes applying to the Welsh Government to entirely replace a governing body and establish an intervention board. So, if I can giveyou an example of where that's been used and has been successful, in Flintshire. They applied to Welsh Government for two interim executive boards, in Sir Richard Gwyn Catholic High School and in Ysgol Trefonnen.They applied to us. Those governing bodies were dissolved. The IEBs were put in place and both of those schools, which had been in special measures, moved quite rapidly, actually, out of special measures. Perhaps themost recent example of this is one that the Chair will know very well in her own constituency of Torfaen, in Cwmbran High School, where Torfaen has intervened in that case. The Welsh Government has not used thosepowers to date. My expectation always is that local authorities should be the first port of call, and I would encourage—and we always encourage—local authorities to take a proactive approach to intervention and to usethose powers. But it's my belief that it is they who are best placed initially to do that.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you, Minister. Can I ask, then, about the national evaluation and improvement resource and how significanta role that will play in the raising of school standards, and how you feel it's evolved since it was first conceived?Kirsty Williams AM: So, this brings us back to the principle of self-evaluation and something, if we'rehonest, we've not been very good at. If you look at a number of chief inspectors' reports into the Welsh education system, self-evaluation has always been identified as something that is missing or underdeveloped inour system to date, hence, then, the work to establish not a new approach, but a more robust approach to self-evaluation. We've done that in conjunction, again, with the OECD, middle tier and practitioners. It's reallyimportant, throughout the entirety of our reform journey that that's done in co-construction, because we want this resource to be usable in schools. So, it's all very well having a conceptual idea and people outside theclassroom working on it, but if it's of no practical use to a school leadership team, then we won't see the impact. So, it's—. We're in phase 2 at the moment, where we're doing—. So, the initial resource has beendeveloped by the OECD, middle tier and practitioners. We're in the testing phase at the moment and having it evaluated itself, with a view to introducing that resource across the system at the start of the new academicyear, in September 2020. I truly believe that, if we're to make progress in Welsh education, we have to develop the skills within our system to have robust self-evaluation. This resource gives us continuity of approachright the way across Wales. So, it's not left to an individual school to come up with a system; it's right the way across the system. My hope would be that those principles could then be applied to local educationauthorities, to regional school improvement services and Welsh Government as part of a whole-system approach to self-evaluation. I don't know if there's anything more you want to add, Steve.Steve Davies: Just toadd that the other critical partners are Estyn themselves.Kirsty Williams AM: Oh, yes, sorry.Steve Davies: So, they have played a critical role and, as we know, as the Minister has said in the past, she may introducepolicy and practice, but if Estyn are part of it then schools, usually, because they recognise that it will be part of the inspection process—it gives it greater push and support around it. So, they've been key players withinit.Kirsty Williams AM: And I think, if I just say as well, that the external perception of what that's about is really important. It's not a test of school readiness for reform, it is a genuine attempt for a school to evaluatetheir strengths, their weaknesses and where they need to go next. It's not an Estyn checklist. And because of the word 'toolkit'—the feedback was that it gave the impression of a checklist, 'Just do this and check list'.So, we're actually going to change the name of that resource. So, it'll be called the national evaluation and improvement resource, rather than the toolkit, because, as I said, the feedback was that 'toolkit' gave theimpression of a checklist exercise, and it's got to be about more than that if it's going to be meaningful. So, it'll be changed to an 'improvement resource'.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Before I bring Suzy in, can I justwelcome Siân Gwenllian, who is joining us via video-conference in north Wales? Morning, Siân.Sian Gwenllian AM: Good morning. Can you hear me?Lynne Neagle AM: We can, yes. We can hear you very nicely, thankyou.Sian Gwenllian AM: Okay. Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Suzy, you've got a supplementary.Suzy Davies AM: Yes. Only a very quick one. It's about the development of the—Kirsty Williams AM: The resource.SuzyDavies AM: Yes, the resource, thank you—about whether there were any conflicting ideas in the process of development that made it quite difficult to zone in on something that school leadership teams, in particular,could rely on. Were there differences of opinion on what this should look like?Kirsty Williams AM: Not that I'm aware of from the practitioners that I've spoken to who have been part of that. So, for instance, Suzy, youwill know the very small school of Gladestry. The head of Gladestry has been involved in this process, and she said that she'd really enjoyed the process of working alongside Estyn and the OECD as a school leader to beable to shape it. But I'm not aware that there's been conflict in that process.Suzy Davies AM: I'm not suggesting that there has been; I'm just interested as to how it had worked, that's all.Steve Davies: Chair, I think,inevitably, when you bring stakeholders together, they're not going to be in total agreement as to how it's going to work, and I think initially one of the challenges was having Estyn there as part of the facilitation group.There are always some concerns that, actually, it's coming from a to inspect, oral, judgmental tick box. So, we had some early day challenges where we had to convince—and, ultimately, Estyn convinced them—thatthey were there to help and support as opposed to to inspect, and that the model that was developed, as the Minister said, was not going to be a tick box, 'You are good at this part of self-evaluation', it was to build theskillsets up.Suzy Davies AM: Okay. So, it's got their full confidence.Kirsty Williams AM: Yes, and I think again, also, what—. You know, four years into the job, what I've reflected on as well is there is this sometimes afeeling out there that the Minister says all the right stuff, but you're not actually going to do it, so, when you talk about a new approach to doing things, you're not actually serious about it. So, trying to build thatconfidence that we are serious about developing a new system around self-improvement, which is different from accountability—sometimes, the practitioners are like, 'Oh, yes, we've heard it all before but it neveractually happens.' And I think that's been a part of the constant—not pressure, but the responsibility on Welsh Government is in following through. So, we said that we were going to do this in the national mission, andwe are going to do it. I'm really proud that there or thereabouts, a few months either way, we've actually kept to the timetable as outlined in the national mission, and that helps build confidence within the sector thatwe are committed to that programme and we're going to do what we say we're going to do.Suzy Davies AM: Okay. Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: And a final question from me: how effective do you think the investmentin school standards has been in this Assembly term, as opposed to the approach taken in the last Assembly term, where there was the protection put in place for core school budgets?Kirsty Williams AM: Well, I think,first of all, it's important that, whilst this additional resource is specifically targeted at school standards, that is only a part of a much wider education budget, a budget that—you know—is incredibly complex. And so it isreally challenging to be able to draw straight lines—you know, 'We did this and it's resulted in that'—given that we're looking at the entirety of school funding here. What's been really important is that, if you drill downinto what that money has been spent on, 50 per cent of it has been directed towards professional learning in one form or another to support our teaching professionals. And that's been really important to me. I've said ittime and time again: an education system cannot exceed the quality of the people who stand in front of our children day in, day out to work with them and teach them. Therefore, that investment in staff and investmentin the professional learning of our staff and support for them I think is making a difference already but, importantly, will continue to make a difference. But I think it is really challenging to be able to say, 'Well, we spentthis bit of money and it definitely led to that', because it's such a complex picture. But that money, the way it's been spent, has been driven by evidence. And, again, what we do know from international best practice,what do we know that works in driving up standards, and then how can we align the money that we've got to supporting that? And, as I said, 50 per cent of that money has gone directly to simply supporting theprofessional learning of those who work with our children.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you very much. We're going to talk now a bit about schools causing concern with questions from Huw Irranca-Davies.HuwIrranca-Davies AM: Thank you, Chair. If I can, just first of all, zoom in on the way in which we actually decide which schools need what support. So, one of the interesting questions for us is how do we use the differentsystems out there. So, we've got the school categorisation system, which we're familiar with. We've also got Estyn inspection reports, then we've got other intelligence, including local intelligence on the ground. How doyou decide from that? How is it decided what schools need support, need challenge? How do we do that?Kirsty Williams AM: Well, you're right: what we have is a variety of ways in which we can identify schools thatneed support, or need to be challenged on their practice. But it's important not to confuse them either. So, our primary route to doing this is our school categorisation system. Sometimes, and perhaps this isinevitable—. That system is primarily there as a triage system around identifying where our resource should be spent. So, our school improvement service—it's a risk-based approach, so they can evaluate where theyneed to put their time, effort and resource. Sometimes, it's used by other people for other things, but that is not its primary purpose; its primary purpose there is not one of accountability, it is one of identifying risk andaligning that then to the support that is available. Estyn—now that is part of that accountability system. That is our method of holding schools and their governing bodies to account for their practice and for the workthat they do. Both systems, of course, are evolving. So, how we do categorisation has changed over a period of time. The elements that go into making that judgment around the levels of support have changed, and, ofcourse, the Estyn inspection regime is also changing. At the moment, schools are only inspected once every seven years. We're moving to a system where Estyn will be more regularly in schools. So, they are twosystems, but they are different and they look at different things. But our categorisation system is how we look for those ways of identifying support for schools.Huw Irranca-Davies AM: And you've made, with feedbackover the last few years, adjustments to the way that the categorisation system works. Are you content with where it is now, or do you see more adjustments being made? Have you got things in front of you that you'regetting feedback on saying 'Well, we need to tweak this again a little bit'?Kirsty Williams AM: So, that system has evolved over time. So, when it started, it was just a tool around secondary schools. Now, it covers thebreadth of schools. Initially, on coming into office, when I first came in, it was purely driven by data, and it was also done in quartiles. So, there was a certain number of schools that had to be in the bottom, whichdrove practitioners mad. They were like 'Ah, every year, there's going to be some of us that have to be in the bottom quartile', because of the way in which it was arranged, which seemed very unfair to them. So, we'vechanged that. It's not just purely driven on data now; there are other judgments—the professional judgments of our challenge advisers are taken into account. And I would expect that situation to continue to evolve toalign itself to our curriculum reform, and our changes in self-evaluation. So, it's not a fixed point. I expect that that system will continue to evolve and change, so that it complements and assists in the reform journeyas other parts of the system change.Huw Irranca-Davies AM: Thanks for that. I think, for any impartial reader of the way that the trends have been going on this, there is some good news within that, in that, certainly,those schools that might have been identified as have been okay but coasting along, seem to be moving up the categories, although we still do have that—. Well, it's what the system is there to do, it's to identify thoseschools that do need that additional support. And I like your analogy of a triage system—'You're fit; keep on doing what you're doing and do it well; you need more support, we'll put the support in.' But, can I turn tothose schools that are causing significant concern, and how we identify them? The Estyn chief inspector's conclusions at the end of the 2017-18 report that these schools are not being identified early enough—there's aneed to do something urgently about these concerns, particularly in secondary schools. Have we addressed that? Are you content that we've addressed that concern? Was he right?Kirsty Williams AM: No, the chiefinspector is absolutely right—absolutely right. I've got no beef with that statement at all. In some ways, when a school goes into special measures, in a way, that's a failure of the system, because that should have beenidentified sooner. So I've got no beef, as I said, with the chief inspector saying that.Huw Irranca-Davies AM: So just to ask, bearing in mind the earlier discussion we were having, how is it that we don't identify thoseschools?Kirsty Williams AM: That's it—you're quite right. Undoubtedly, what categorisation has done is led to a greater understanding, I think, on behalf of local education authorities' and school improvement services'knowledge about their schools. I think knowledge around schools is greatly enhanced by that process. But we are not there yet in terms of necessarily, then, moving those schools more quickly, once they've beenidentified as needing the highest level of support to see improvement. And secondary schools is a particular, particular challenge. So you will have seen from the last publication of categorisation data that our primarysector continues to improve—more and more and more of our primary schools are in a green rating, which is very satisfying to me. But we have got more of an issue with secondary schools, and we have a particularissue with the same schools being identified in that level of categorisation. So even though we've identified them as needing that extra help, they are not moving at pace away from that system. So there are two thingsthat we are doing at the moment. The first is, we are, again, looking at different sets of data that can give us even earlier warning systems that things are going wrong in a school—and perhaps Steve will explain later.For instance, staff sickness, and carefully monitoring staff sickness, because there is a direct correlation between high levels of staff sickness in a school and what is going on in the school. And Steve can explain some ofthis work later. But we're piloting a new approach to those schools that are causing concern. Each local authority has been asked to identify two of their high schools that they are particularly worried about. And we havea new multi-agency approach, working with those schools to try and move them more forward. So it's two from each region, a multi-agency panel, working with the school. And that multi-agency panel includes theschool itself, the local authority, the regional consortia school improvement staff, Estyn and Welsh Government—as a multi-agency panel to support improvement in that school. So, for instance, what would normallyhappen, Estyn would come in, Estyn would make a judgment on the school—requiring special measures or urgent improvement—and Estyn would go away. They'd go away for six months, and then they'd come back in"}
{"doc_id":"doc_179","qid":"","text":"User Interface: {gap}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} How do you wear this thing ?Project Manager: Hmm . Mm mm mm . {vocalsound}User Interface: Not too many cables and stuff.Marketing: {gap}User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Original . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Is recorded ? Okay ? Okay so welcomeeveryone . So we are here for the kickoff meeting of uh the process of designing a new remote control . So I will first start with a warm welcome opening {vocalsound} stuff ,User Interface: {vocalsound}ProjectManager: then uh we will uh see what will be uh our product and what will be the different step we will have to design it . And uh then we will uh discuss if we have few ideas and we will uh end uh by uh dispatching thedifferent task you will be {disfmarker} you will have to fulfil to complete this process . So {disfmarker}User Interface: Uh . Just one thing . Uh , you said twenty-five minutes , but I have something else to do uh , sogotta have another meeting uh soon ,Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: so maybe you could hurry up a bit {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} sorry ?User Interface: It's true . I have anothermeeting so if you could uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: You have another meeting soon ?User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: So you have to be quick .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah , forthe lawnmower project .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: So the the goal is to have a remote control so to have an advantage over our competitors we have to be original , we have to betrendy and we have to also try to be user-friendly .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So uh the design step will be divided in three uh main points . First it will be the functional design . Third is theconceptual design and then is the desired design . So the functional design is to identify the main user needs , the technical function the remote control should fulfil . And then we will move to f conceptual design wherewe'll specify the different component involved , what kind of user interf interface we want and what are the different uh trend in user interface and stuff like that .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Andthen the desired devi design will consist in uh specifically implementing {vocalsound} and detailing the choice we've uh made in the second point . So I will now ask you which is very important for the design of a newremote control for to uh each of us to to draw uh your favourite animal on the white board .User Interface: {vocalsound} What an original idea .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Do you have any idea of which animal youwant to show us ? {vocalsound}User Interface: Orangutan .Project Manager: Okay {vocalsound} that's good .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: No no nProjectManager: {vocalsound} n n {gap}User Interface: Can I give you theProject Manager: You should {disfmarker}User Interface: {disfmarker} no ? But I don't have to say anything . When I'm drawing the orangutan.Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} If you want to react uh about this wonderful drawing uh {vocalsound} I'll let you uh comment .User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: It's an abstract drawing of an orangutan .Project Manager: Okay it's an abstract drawing .User Interface: Yes .Project Manager: I think it's nice and original .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} You should write y the name I think . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: I don't have a red colour . Usually orangutans have red hair so this is a veryimportant but I don't have red pen , so {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yes .Project Manager: You want to draw something Christine ? {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}{vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay uh sorry . You have to imagine a little bit {vocalsound} um .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: This {disfmarker}Project Manager: Of course youranimal is recorded so it's not lost . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Sorry too {vocalsound} uh .User Interface: Yes . I know .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Is this uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Wha what is this strange beast ?Marketing: Is it beautiful ?{vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Is it a monster ?Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Do you know ? It's a cat .User Interface: It's a cat ?IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Isn't it ? {vocalsound}User Interface: I thought these things did not exist .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yes yesIndustrial Designer: Me{vocalsound}Marketing: is it {disfmarker} like that .User Interface: Ah yeah {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Ah yeah . Yeah .Marketing: Is it better ?Project Manager: Ah okay it's pretty . {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound} Okay .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay it's your cat . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} It's my cat .User Interface: Does have a name ?Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}Marketing: The name is Caramel .User Interface: Caramel . Ah-ha .Industrial Designer: Caramel .Marketing: Yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay . Olivier , do you want to{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} And you {vocalsound} {vocalsound} I think I'm too short for the cables . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay I go , but next timeyou'll do something I'm sure . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} I'm a bit short on cable .User Interface: Next time I concentrate .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay . So what could I draw ?{vocalsound} Maybe I can draw like a very simplified cow . {vocalsound} I don't know if it looks like a cow {vocalsound}User Interface: He looks like a bong .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Like a what ? {vocalsound}User Interface: Okay . Sorry . No .Industrial Designer: Quite squarey .User Interface: Scary ?Project Manager: {gap} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: He also. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I dunno it it looks more like a donkey in fact {vocalsound} I would say .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} I Ithink we will be finished this uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: Okay so I hope that it helps you uh in the process of designing a remote control .User Interface: Is it for uh for putting a{disfmarker} for logos , no .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay .User Interface: {vocalsound} That's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Let's move on . So {disfmarker} Here the uh financial objective of our project . Thatis to say to to have a production cost lower than twelve point five Euros and have a selling price of twice that price t in order to target a profe profit of uh fifty uh million Euros .User Interface: I is there a matter for anew remote control ?Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah if it's trendy , original I d fulfil the user needs .User Interface: Is it uh a single device remote control or is it a multi-device remote control ?Project Manager: Wehave to discuss that point .User Interface: AhProject Manager: On {disfmarker}User Interface: this is not defined at all ?Project Manager: yeah you you can suggest points like this . So what what {disfmarker}UserInterface: Ah , okay .Project Manager: so we have to decide for example if it can control one device or multiple . So what's {disfmarker} what are your ideas about that ?User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager:Maybe I can have the {disfmarker} your opinion from the marketing side ?User Interface: Well uh do we sell other stuff ? Uh if if we bundle the remote control with something uh to sell then it could be a single device ,otherwise it could be programmable one otherwise who would buy a remote control from us .Project Manager: Okay , so if it selled uh by its own i it it would rather be for multiple device .User Interface: Yeah .ProjectManager: {vocalsound} Do you agree ?Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Yeah . So maybe it should be for multiple devices . And uh do you have any ideas um of uh design ideas or any uh uh technicalrequirement we we should uh fulfil ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I think we shouldn't have too many b for my part . I think {disfmarker}User Interface: No , I couldn I cannot fi think of any requirements right now. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: If we don't have so many buttons could be nice .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Few buttons . Okay .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: And do you have it also to be{disfmarker} to be lighted in order to be used in the dark ? Might be a good idea .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: Okay . And do you have any um any uh idea of the trend {disfmarker} thetrend in domain , what it shouldn't {disfmarker} it should look like , or things like that ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Something which is not squarey maybe uh , not a box .User Interface: Mm .Project Manager:With rou okay . Like for {disfmarker} okay .User Interface: Something like that , least fits in your hand .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: The basicrequirement .Project Manager: So . Fit in your hand , yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound} Only a buck .Project Manager: And also it have , i it may be {vocalsound} it may be important for the remote control to be uh{disfmarker} To , to resist to various shocks that can happen if it fall .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Waterproof . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Water-proofas well .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} And I think we should have a device {disfmarker}Project Manager: Maybe it is original because you can uh use it in your uh {disfmarker} in your bath whereas the others can't.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Maybe water-proof would be very original .Industrial Designer: Sorry . {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Havin having awater-proof remote control so that the people can uh use it in their bath .User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: That could be uh {disfmarker}User Interface: B it seems uh so , but uh if you don't have an waterproofremote control it means you can just cover it with some plastic and you can sort of fProject Manager: Yeah but , it is still something uh you have to buy and that is um not maybe very {disfmarker}User Interface: And ,and that's one of the {disfmarker} that's one of the shock {disfmarker} I mean there are people that have a remote control and they are worried that it's going to break and they put some extra plastic around it.Project Manager: Yeah , mayb BUser Interface: That's people {gap} they actually do it themselves .Project Manager: But maybe we can bulk it with uh already this plastic thing and uh the waterproof uh stuff as well.Industrial Designer: Yeah . {gap} directly .User Interface: I it will look a bulky in that case .Project Manager: Yeah . Maybe we can sell uh all that together , so so plastic protection and uh and a waterproof box as well.Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: That might be good uh track to follow .User Interface: Like as an optional thing .Project Manager: Optional or selled with it ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} And I I thinkwe should have something , most of the time I I lose my remote control .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: We should have s uh special bu button on the T_V_ to make the remote control beeping .ProjectManager: Maybe we can have uh {disfmarker} But we don't design the T_V_ .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Maybe we can have uh something you whistle and uh the remote control uh beep .IndustrialDesigner: Ah yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Barks .Industrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah , barks , yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Barks .Project Manager: So we canuh have a whistle uh remote control ?Industrial Designer: Yeah . Yeah whistle .Project Manager: I don't know , whistle-able ? {vocalsound} ThIndustrial Designer: Whistle tracking . {vocalsound}Project Manager:{vocalsound} Whistle tracking yeah . Whistle tracking remote control . That's a good idea , that's very original and that's can uh improve .User Interface: {vocalsound} That's that's quite cool , but uh of course we{disfmarker} you don't normally need uh any audio uh recording stuff on your remote control right ?Project Manager: Yeah d d uh .User Interface: So i it's just going to add t to the cost .Project Manager: Yeah but s stillwe have to mm we have to {vocalsound} have an advantage over our competitors . I think this is a good advantage .User Interface: {vocalsound} It's cool . I think I like the idea , but I'm not sure about the what you,Project Manager: Yeah . We have to ask {disfmarker}User Interface: who is giving {disfmarker} who's giving who's giving our budget . Who's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah . We have to ask the quest of that's uhdesign to the uh Industrial um Designer .User Interface: Yeah . Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound} yeah {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Which is you .User Interface: 'Kay .{vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay so try to find that for next meeting . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay . So next meeting is in thirty minutes or so uh .{vocalsound} Don't pani .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Don't panic . {vocalsound}Project Manager: So so I will ask the Industrial Designer to find out more about this industrial design so any working {disfmarker}any working function we have discussed .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: So then I will ask the User Interf Interface Designer to to think about the point we discussed like the number of buttons , thethe fact that is lighted or not , things like that , and what would be convenient for the user .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: And also um {vocalsound} I will ask the Market Expert to uh try to find out whatare the absolute requirements , what is absolutely needed in a remote control uh for the user . So . And then uh I will uh just ask you to think about that and uh look at your mail because you will receive uh some goodadvice soon . {vocalsound}User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: So . Thank you I think that's all for this point .User Interface: Good .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Thank you{vocalsound}User Interface: Uh , so we come back in five minutes ? Half an hour .Project Manager: Anyway you will receive some messages . {vocalsound} Be careful . You eat it ? Does it move uh ? Okay , but I don'tknow if it uh is still correctly uh {disfmarker} We'll see .Industrial Designer: Ah . {gap}"}
{"doc_id":"doc_180","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Uh , making a profit of fifty million Euros . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Alright so twenty five .User Interface: Mm 'kay .Project Manager: So , it's go gonna have to be be pretty damn trendy .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So yeah , I've {disfmarker} The only the only remote controls I've used usually come with the television , and they're fairly basic .Project Manager: Yeah . Yeah .User Interface:Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: So uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah , I was thinking that as well , I think the the only ones that I've seen that you buy are the sort of one for all type things wherethey're ,User Interface: Yeah the universal ones . Yeah .Industrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: yeah . So presumably that might be an idea to put into .Industrial Designer: But but to sell it for twenty five you needa lot of neat features . For sure .Marketing: Slim .Project Manager: Yeah , yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Uh 'cause I mean , what {disfmarker} uh twenty five Euros , that's about I dunno , fifteen Poundsor so ? And that's quite a lot for a remote control .User Interface: Mm-hmm , it's about that .Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah .User Interface: Mm .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Um well my first thoughtswould be most remote controls are grey or black . As you said they come with the T_V_ so it's normally just your basic grey black remote control {gap} functions ,Project Manager: Uh-huh .User Interface: so maybe wecould think about colour ?Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Make {disfmarker} that might make it a bit different from the rest at least . Um , and as you say , we need to have some kind of gimmick , so um Ithought maybe something like if you lose it and you can whistle ,Project Manager: Okay . {vocalsound} The the keyrings , yeah yeah .User Interface: you know those things ? Because we always lose our remote control.Industrial Designer: Right .Marketing: {vocalsound} Uh yeah uh ,Project Manager: Okay , that's cool .Marketing: being as a Marketing Exper Expert I will like to say like before deciding the cost of this remote control orany other things we must see the market potential for this product like what is the competition in the market ? What are the available prices of the other remote controls in the prices ?Project Manager: {gap} Okay.Marketing: What speciality other remote controls are having and how complicated it is to use these remote controls as compared to other remote controls available in the market . So before deciding or before finalisingthis project , we must discuss all these things , like {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay .Marketing: and apart from this , it should be having a good look also , because people really li uh like to play with it when they arewatching movies or playing with {gap} or playing with their C_D_ player , M_P_ three player like any electronic devices .User Interface: Mm . Mm-hmm .Marketing: They really want to have something good , having agood design in their hands ,Project Manager: {gap}User Interface: Mm-hmm . Yeah .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: so , yes ,Project Manager: 'Kay .Marketing: all this .Industrial Designer: Uh , what do we think a{disfmarker}Project Manager: So , we're looking for {disfmarker} {gap} 'Kay .Industrial Designer: What do we think a good size would be for this ? {gap}Project Manager: We're {disfmarker}Marketing:{gap}Industrial Designer: 'Cause I I know as you add more buttons to the remote it sometimes gets so big and clunkyProject Manager: Sorry , carry on . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:and there's just like a hundred buttons on it ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: or you could have a really small slim one but then you could lose it easily . {vocalsound}ProjectManager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Yeah . Then you lose it , yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Kind of um , maybe more like a P_D_A_ kind of , just hand held , like ,Project Manager: For foruhUser Interface: 'cause {disfmarker}Project Manager: remember we're trying to make it for twelve Euros fifty . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah . No , I wasn't , no sorry I wasn't thinking of the screen of like aP_D_A_Project Manager: Okay well right we'll have to um {disfmarker} I'll {disfmarker}User Interface: butProject Manager: we're k having another meeting in half an hour so umUser Interface: Okay .Project Manager:we should all look into a bit uh , oh actually , no , we'll allocate . So you do the looking around at other remote controls .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Um , if you could maybe come up with sort of shapes andsuggested shades or whatever , and you could look into um {vocalsound} basically how how it's made I_E_ like how you make it all in one , how {disfmarker} what sort of materials are available to you whatever . Andobviously , other instructions will come from the personal coach .Industrial Designer: Right .Project Manager: Which will probably just usurp what I said so {disfmarker}User Interface: So you want me to look at shapesand everything you said ?Project Manager: Shapes and colours and {disfmarker} um basically how to make it attractive .User Interface: Yep . Okay .Project Manager: Uh .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing:{gap}Project Manager: And you look at competition and design .Marketing: Yep .Project Manager: Cool . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay .User Interface: Okay .Marketing: {gap}Project Manager:SoIndustrial Designer: {gap}Project Manager: we have uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Wait for emails ?Marketing: Uh .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager:{vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Hmm .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay , groovy . And no doubt we'll get um {disfmarker}User Interface: Oh no ,{gap} .Project Manager: Sorry .User Interface: SorryProject Manager: We'll get um warnings for next meetings as well .User Interface: it's okay . Okay , cool .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay . I shall {disfmarker}I can't imagine these {gap} are worth much . {vocalsound}Marketing: Hmm .Project Manager: Okay . Fashion into electronic . Okay ."}
{"doc_id":"doc_181","qid":"","text":"The Chair (Hon. Anthony Rota (NipissingTimiskaming, Lib.)): I call this meeting to order.  Welcome to the 23rd meeting of the House of Commons Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic.  A reminder to allmembers that in order to avoid issues with sound, members participating in person should not also be connected to the video conference. For those of you who are joining via video conference, I will remind you thatwhen speaking you should be on the same channel as the language you are speaking, and please use your headsets. As usual, please direct your remarks through the chair. As I understand, there are no ministerialannouncements today.  We will now proceed to presenting petitions. I remind members that any petition presented during a meeting of this special committee must have already been certified by the clerk of petitions.For members participating in person, I ask that they please come and drop their signed certificates off at the table once the petition is presented. I would ask members to be very brief and concise, and to summarize theexact content of the petition. We will continue. The first person presenting a petition today is Ms. May.Ms. Elizabeth May (SaanichGulf Islands, GP): Thank you, Mr. Chair. I present two petitions this morning. Theresidents of SaanichGulf Islands are calling on the government to simplify the process for protection of marine protected areas. It's a multi-layered communication process. The marine protected area first proposed inthe 1970s for the southern Strait of Georgia, now called the Salish Sea, has been awaiting designation for so long that it was originally endorsed by Jacques Cousteau. That gives us a sense for why petitioners arecalling for a simplified and more rapid process. The second petition is from petitioners who are very concerned about our obligations under the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples and ourcommitments under the Truth and Reconciliation Commission calls to action. They specifically reference the RCMP violation of UNDRIP in its actions on Wet'suwet'en territory and ask the government to commit toactually living the principles embodied in UNDRIP.The Chair: We will now go to Mr. Hardie.Mr. Ken Hardie (FleetwoodPort Kells, Lib.): Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am presenting a petition on behalf of the one in a millionCanadians who suffer severe and adverse effects from vaccinations. GuillainBarre syndrome is very debilitating, and this petition seeks the setting up of a no-fault accident or compensation system to help offset the lossof work, the loss of wages and the loss of quality of life that many of these people suffer. I'm pleased to present this petition pursuant to Standing Order 36.The Chair: Mr.Trudel, you have the floor.Mr. Denis Trudel(LongueuilSaint-Hubert, BQ): Mr.Chair, culture is the soul of a people. Over the past 20years or so, culture, especially music, has never been as accessible as it is now. Paradoxically, creators' incomes have never beenso low. The advent of digital technology has completely overturned the system for distributing the wealth generated by creators for the benefit of various Web stakeholders, many of whom are billionaires. This petitionaddresses these problems and proposes realistic solutions. The first is to set a minimum royalty model for streaming platforms for artists. The second is to update the existing private copying system. The third is forInternet and cell phone providers who sell their services as direct access to culture to share their profits with artists. The fourth is that the GAFAMs have to pay taxes on their services. Six thousand people have alreadysigned the first version of this petition, launched last month by musician JordanOfficer and supported by singer BarbaraSecours. As an artist, I am proud to present this petition today because the issues it raises arefundamental to the survival of Quebec culture.The Chair: We'll now continue with Mr. Genuis.Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood ParkFort Saskatchewan, CPC): Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I have four petitions topresent today. I will be as brief as you suggested, although I will observe that if some members are going on longer during petitions than they normally do, it might be because the government has taken away so manyof the tools that opposition members normally have for raising important issues in the House. The first petition deals with the issue of euthanasia and long-term care. The petitioners are concerned that instead offocusing on improving medically assisted life, something that we know is a major issue in light of recent revelations, the government has put so much time and legislative energy into efforts to continually further expandeuthanasia in Canada and remove vital safeguards. The second petition speaks to the ongoing conversations happening in Canada around systemic discrimination and systemic racism. I think we do need to reflect onsystemic discrimination. This petition deals specifically with Bill 21 in Quebec and raises concerns. The reality of the way that bill applies is that people from certain backgrounds who wish to practise their faith are notable to fully participate in Canadian society if they are employed in the public service. This petition asks the government to provide a response on that issue, something it hasn't done in response to past petitions onthis. The third petition deals with the issue of firearms. The petitioners want to see the government take a strong response in dealing with illegal guns and gun smuggling. The petition notes that the vast majority offirearms-related crimes in Canada involves illegal guns. At the same time, the petitioners are concerned that the government has the wrong focusthat is, harassing law-abiding firearms ownerswithout putting in placesubstantial measures to deal with illegal guns. The petitioners want to see the reversal of the order in council from May 1 and strong measures to deal with illegal firearms. The fourth and final petition deals with BillS-204, a bill that would make it a criminal offence for a Canadian to go abroad and receive an organ from a person who has not consented to giving that organ. It would also create a mechanism by which someone couldbe deemed inadmissible to Canada if they were involved in organ harvesting and trafficking. The petitioners are supportive of Bill S-204 and of similar bills in previous parliaments and would like to see us pass that billas soon as possible.The Chair: Presenting petitions, Mr. Lamoureux.Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Winnipeg North, Lib.): Thank you, Mr. Chair. It is with pleasure that I table another petition by the residents of Winnipeg North.These residents have signed a petition asking the Government of Canada, and in fact all members of Parliament, to put a high priority on assisting our poorest seniors. The increases to the GIS by $200, and $300 to theOAS, have been well received. They just want to highlight how important it is to support our seniors, in particular the poorest of our seniors.The Chair: For members present in the Chamber, a reminder that they areasked to bring their petitions to the table. We'll now proceed to statements by members. We'll go to Ms. Atwin for the first one.Mrs. Jenica Atwin (Fredericton, GP): Thank you, Mr. Chair. June 21 is National IndigenousPeoples Day, a day of acknowledgement and a day of celebration of the beautiful diversity of indigenous peoples across Turtle Island. I wish to recognize the leadership of Chief Shelley Sabattis of the Welamukotuk FirstNation in Oromocto, New Brunswick. Each year she and her council, volunteers and staff go above and beyond to show appreciation for their members and to demonstrate pride and culture while promoting well-being.We gather in an event where all are welcome to take part, from traditional hand drum-making with elders to moose meat and tacos. This year we will celebrate a bit differently, but we will still stay connected, virtuallyand in spirit, to the vast network of indigenous peoples and allies. We need each other now more than ever. May we come together in song and stories and in solidarity. We will remember those who are not among us. Ihope all of Canada will join us in observing National Indigenous Peoples Day.  Mawiyapasuwok: let us come together. Nit liech.The Chair: We'll now go to Mr. Beech.Mr. Terry Beech (Burnaby NorthSeymour, Lib.): Mr.Chair, COVID-19 is an unprecedented challenge for all communities across Canada, but as we do our part to flatten the curve, I often think about those who suit up every morning to serve on the front lines of our healthcare system. My mother is a home care worker and my sister is a nurse. Even before the crisis, they would often share the hardships they faced on a day-to-day basis. It's a tough job at the best of times. In apandemic, these jobs are life-threatening. I think we can all agree that these workers deserve more than our good wishes. They deserve a raise. That is why we have worked with the provinces to implement pandemicpay. In British Columbia more than 250,000 front-line workers are eligible for this program. That works out to a pay increase of about $4 an hour. It's a small show of our appreciation for their difficult and pricelesscontribution to our country. Share this message and say thanks to our front-line workers, participate in the 7 p.m. cheer, and order a pizza for your local nurses. It's the least we can do.The Chair: We'll now go on to Mr.Shipley.Mr. Doug Shipley (BarrieSpringwaterOro-Medonte, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. We've been living in difficult times. Slowly, we are getting back to some resemblance of normalcy, although unfortunately not soonenough for some of our great summer festivals. It will not be normal in BarrieSpringwaterOro-Medonte this summer without the iconic Boots and Hearts weekend music festival, Kempenfest, Oro World's Fair, theElmvale Fall Fair, or the Midhurst Autumnfest. Canada Day celebrations have been cancelled, but we can still celebrate the great nation we call home. Because of the lack of Canada Day celebrations, I've created HappyCanada Day lawn signs that are available through my constituency office, free to all residents of BarrieSpringwaterOro-Medonte. I'm also hosting a drive-through party on Canada Day at the Royal Canadian Legion onSt. Vincent Street in Barrie. All are welcome to attend. There will be cupcakes for all. Please drop by the legion between 11 a.m. and 2 p.m., and we can celebrate Canada Day safely together. Thank you and have agreat summer.The Chair: Now we'll go on to Ms. Young.Ms. Kate Young (London West, Lib.): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Among the countless ordinary Canadians who have stepped up to do extraordinary work duringCOVID-19, I wish to draw attention to our teachers. Teachers have always had a special place in my heart. My father was a teacher, and my daughter-in-law, Kelly Webb, is one now. I'm certain that my colleagues canall easily remember a teacher in their past who played an important role in helping them achieve their potential. I remember my grade 12 English teacher, Vince Weaver, at Westminster Secondary School in London. Hemade me realize that I could do so much more than I believed. Across the country, as schools closed, teachers did not stop their work. Some took their classes online. Others found innovative ways to continue engagingwith their students. This is not the school year anyone imagined, and what the next one will look like is unclear, but our teachers in London West and across Canada have shown that no matter what, they will be there tohelp our next generation shine.The Chair: Before proceeding to the next presenter, I just want to remind the honourable members in the chamber that I realize that the six-foot limit makes it harder to whisper to eachother, but we're hearing a bit of rumble, so I just want you to try to whisper at your best. Mr.Bergeron, you have the floor.Mr. Stphane Bergeron (Montarville, BQ): Mr.Chair, on July1st, we will be celebrating one of themost important events for the riding of Montarville: the 175thanniversary of the city of Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville. The theme Proud of our traditions will be the focus of this celebration for the people of Montarville.This is a good illustration of the rich history of this municipality nestled in the western foothills of Mont-Saint-Bruno. The seigneury of Montarville was granted in1710 to the illustrious former governor of Trois-Rivires,PierreBoucher. The parish of Saint-Bruno, which took root there and in which a village grew, became a municipal corporation in1845. To this day, it is one of the most prosperous localities, with a strong sense ofbelonging, a very dynamic community life and jealously preserved natural environments. A whole program had been drawn up for the celebration, but the current health crisis has taken over some of the plannedactivities, which has in no way diminished the pride and festive spirit of the people of Montarville. On July1st, we will have a good reason to be proud, in spite of everything. Happy 175thanniversary toSaint-Bruno-de-Montarville.The Chair: We'll now continue with Mr. Maloney.Mr. James Maloney (EtobicokeLakeshore, Lib.): Mr. Chair, thank you for allowing me to take a moment to highlight an initiative that I startedearly on during the COVID-19 pandemic. The Heroes of EtobicokeLakeshore is an opportunity for citizens in my riding to recognize the contributions of those in their community who make life a bit easier. I'm pleasedwith the number of nominations I received that honour everyone from front-line workers to businesses that are innovating in these difficult times to volunteers who are finding new ways to reach out. I think of DanielLauzon who set up Food for Now, a mobile service that helps take care of the homeless. I think of Toni Varone, who helped his business clients by forgiving their rents, or young Lucas, who wanted to thank his teachers.I've been moved and inspired by the countless stories of generosity, strength, resiliency, kindness, incredible character and creativity. I want to thank all the heroes, as well as the people who nominated them. Keepthem coming. Stay safe, everyone, and I wish you happy Canada Day early.The Chair: We'll now move on to Ms. Wong.Hon. Alice Wong (Richmond Centre, CPC): Mr. Chair, it gives me great pleasure to thank a localRichmond-based charity, the Social Diversity for Children Foundation, SDC, for its hard work both in raising funds for the purchase of personal protective equipment and in distributing this PPE to long-term care facilitiesand individual seniors' homes in the lower mainland of B.C. The COVID-19 relief fund is supported by a dozen other non-profits, businesses and community groups. Over the past two months, SDC has been to 32seniors homes and senior-related organizations. In total, it has delivered masks to 7,000 care workers, staff and seniors. It is amazing to have witnessed how the younger generation have gotten involved in caring forthe elderly at this very challenging time.The Chair: We'll now go to Ms. Damoff.Ms. Pam Damoff (Oakville NorthBurlington, Lib.): Mr. Chair, June is ALS Awareness Month, and 79 years after Lou Gehrig died from ALSlittle has changed. There's still no cure, and those with ALS typically die within five years of diagnosis. On June 21, Canadians will gather virtually to raise funds for ALS Canada in the Walk to End ALS. In Halton,normally we meet each year at Bronte Creek Provincial Park on the May long weekend to raise funds for ALS Canada. This year I will virtually join Tim's Titans, a team formed to honour Tim Robertson, my friend whodied in 2016 after living with ALS for 13 years. I have a T-shirt, with a picture of Lou Gehrig, that says, Great Player...Lousy Disease and Tim's Titans...Great Team! ALS...Still a Lousy Disease. Join me on June 21 forthe virtual Walk to End ALS to raise funds to support patients and their families and for ALS research.The Chair: We'll now continue with Ms. Khera.Ms. Kamal Khera (Brampton West, Lib.): Mr. Chair, on Saturday ourcommunity stood and marched in solidarity against anti-black racism. The peaceful protests that we're seeing across the country and around the world were not triggered by an isolated incident. They are fuelled bydecades of ineffective action against something that is so insidious and deeply entrenched in our history, systems and institutions. For us, that is the racial inequality faced by Canada's indigenous and blackcommunities. Anti-black racism is real. It exists right here in Canada, in our communities, including in Brampton. It exists when racialized students at McCrimmon Middle School are called McCriminals. It exists when ashocking report exposes the Peel District School Board's failure to work fairly with the black community. It exists when D'Andre Campbell, who was fighting mental illness, loses his life at the hands of the police. It isclear that we need reform. We need to dismantle the systems that allow this privilege and oppression to take form, and address the unconscious bias plaguing our institutions. We'll need to be bold, and the time to dothat is now.The Chair: We'll now go to Mr. Lloyd.Mr. Dane Lloyd (Sturgeon RiverParkland, CPC): Mr. Chair, a few months ago I rose in the House on the eve of our closure due to COVID-19. I told Canadians we must notgive in to fear, that we would carry on and get through this crisis stronger than ever. Today, in this city and across Canada, Canadians are enjoying a beer on their favourite patios. Businesses are reopening, jobs arereturning and our lives are starting to feel a bit normal again. Canadians pulled together, and because of that we did not see the devastating death toll that many had predicted. Life may be returning to normal, butunfortunately, here in this chamber of democracy, the people's voices continue to be shut down. There is no good reason for Parliament to be suspended today. In the words of my grandfather, it's time for the Liberalsto get with the program and bring back the House.The Chair: We will now proceed with Ms. Jones.Ms. Yvonne Jones (Labrador, Lib.): Mr. Chair, from in-person learning to virtual classrooms, COVID-19 has drasticallychanged the lives of students across the country, especially those in post-secondary education who are worried about covering costs like tuition or rent this coming fall. Our government recognized that students shouldnot have to worry or put their futures on pause during this difficult time. That's why last month the federal government introduced the Canada emergency student benefit. If you're a high school student headed to apost-secondary school, or a current post-secondary student or a recent graduate, you can receive the Canada emergency student benefit every four weeks and have the financial support that you need to save forschool. We also doubled Canada student grants and loans, enhanced the student loan program, increased supports for indigenous post-secondary education and introduced the Canada student service grant for thosewho wish to pursue it. Our government is here to help all students get the support they need to pursue their future goals successfully. I wish them all the very best, and I wish all of you, my colleagues and those acrossCanada, a very happy National Indigenous Peoples Day, which is coming up on June 21.The Chair: I want to remind the honourable members to keep to their 60 seconds so that we don't go over the time. I'm sure itwould be a lot easier for everyone if we stuck to that limit. We will now go to Mr. Aitchison.Mr. Scott Aitchison (Parry SoundMuskoka, CPC): Mr. Chair, I rise today to once again implore the government to do somethingabout the horrible lack of access to and crazy cost of rural Internet service. Right now, too many areas of my riding have no access to rural Internet service at all, and those who can get service are paying through thenose. I've even heard constituents say that during this pandemic, they are having to choose between feeding their kids and educating them. Over the last few weeks, Conservatives have been consulting with ruralCanadians, and the results are in. My constituents are tired of fancy political promises. They are frustrated beyond belief by the new challenges created by this pandemic. They are absolutely fed up with having theirpleas ignored. All we want is affordable and reliable Internet service. Is that too much to ask of the government?The Chair: We'll now go to Mr. MacGregor.Mr. Alistair MacGregor (CowichanMalahatLangford, NDP): Mr.Chair, these last few months have been incredibly challenging for the residents of CowichanMalahatLangford, who have been forced to deal with the economic and social consequences of COVID-19. The pandemic haslaid bare the inadequacies of our social safety net, the weakness in our supply chains and the dependence of our society on essential workers, who often work long hours for low wages, putting themselves and theirfamilies at risk. We've also been forced to confront the systemic inequality, poverty and racism that continue to hold so many people back from achieving their full potential. I will not dishonour the sacrifice that so many"}
{"doc_id":"doc_182","qid":"","text":"Marketing: Great man . Who starts ?Project Manager: Well I'll uh start just with another presentation , so then we can uh look at th at the agenda uh for this meeting .Marketing: Alright , great . Alright .ProjectManager: {vocalsound} Okay . I've put some uh new things in the in the map .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Uh oh . {vocalsound} This is it . I don't know the shortcut , so {disfmarker} Ah F_ five . Well ourfunctional design meeting , that's the stage we're in .Industrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: And you also ha all three of you have uh prepared something about it .Marketing: Yes .Project Manager: Well um in we'lluh just have a look at the at the notes from the previous meeting , what we uh thought we had dec decided . But uh {disfmarker} Uh then we'll uh look at uh the three uh presentations uh from you . I think you haveprepared uh all three uh ? {vocalsound}Marketing: 'Kay .Industrial Designer: Well , yeah .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Um we'll look at th the new project requirements we uh {disfmarker} I dunno . Y you alsohave uh received that mail , the new project requirements from our bosses ?Industrial Designer: No . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh I've received a mail with uh some additional requirements ,Marketing: No . You'rethe only one . {vocalsound}Project Manager: and I'll have a look if {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Oh .Marketing: Alright .Project Manager: Well I think we should show them before your presentations , because it'snot really uh smart uh to uh to include some things uh we can't , because of the new requirements . Well um then we can make some decisions about our remote control functions .Marketing: 'Kay .Project Manager: Wehave to deb we have to decide it in this meeting what our function will be . And then uh we can discuss uh some more closely . Uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: We have forty minutes for this uh discussion ?ProjectManager: Uh yeah , I think so . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Alright .Project Manager: Well uh {gap} the closing uh we'll not uh look at it yet .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Alright .Project Manager: Um{vocalsound} now I'll look at {gap} show {gap} this board . Um {disfmarker} Well uh notes , first meeting . Now . I gave a disc a a presentation . Uh we familiarised ourself with the boards and then we discussed somefirst ideas . So we said that uh we have to merge the strong points from our uh competitors , and uh look at their uh remote controls .Marketing: Right .Project Manager: We should make it uh compatible with our newD_V_D_ and other releases we have , our technical releases .Industrial Designer: Huh ?Project Manager: Uh not too many one buttons . One recognisable button in the middle , where you do the most importantfunctions with . And um well they can have two functions , because uh you have a D_V_D_ and a television .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: Um the design has to fit the hand , be original , butalso be familiar . {vocalsound} It's uh one of our ideas .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah well that wa It's just thirty minutes ago ,UserInterface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: so it's not quite uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} But well I have to do it .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm , now it's right .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: Thematerials uh well should be hard plastic with rubber from {gap} , and uh well the labelling of the buttons should be indestructible . It should be uh recognisable at all times .User Interface: {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: It's meant to be easily wiped out , yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yes .User Interface: Mm .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Well fronts were to be {gap} just like mobile telephones . And uh thetechnical aspects um {disfmarker} And also labelling of the buttons , the functions should be universal standards . Well that's just uh some ideas from the first meeting . It's quite logical al all of it .Industrial Designer:Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Um now the new project requirements , I'll just show them . I got this mail from uh our bosses . Well , teletext goes out . We will not use teletext .User Interface: Oh .Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Maybe a new sort of thing , but n but not teletext .Industrial Designer: I I disagree , but uh it's not uh t it's not my place to disagree I guess .Project Manager: Well {disfmarker} the second is a bit shpity because we just said we wanted to d include the D_V_D_User Interface: Oh .Project Manager: and they don't want it , because of our time we have for this project .Marketing: Alright .Industrial Designer: Oh ,alright .User Interface: Oh , that's a shame .Project Manager: So that's a shame , because uh especially for the third requirement we want to reach people under the thirty years . Because uh we don't have thosecustomers a lot at th at this point . Um well it's a bit pity because it's just those people want to have uh one remote control for all those technical devices they can uh reach it .Marketing: Yeah . But let's forget about it .It's just time-consuming ,Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: so we uh have to go on .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well and uh our corporate image should stay rec recognisable in our products . So uhwe have to uh use uh maybe a slogan , maybe a colour , and um {disfmarker} Yeah well uh on our remote controls the design has to be uh , well as we already said a actually , uh familiar . Uh not only just uh theshape but also our company .Marketing: Yes .Industrial Designer: Yeah , we are a {vocalsound} real fashionable company . I read uh I read it on the {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound} Yeah .UserInterface: Yeah . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I didn't know what company we were ,Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: but we we design uh especially trendy uh trendy trendy stuff .Marketing:{vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah . Okay .Industrial Designer: So it has to be uh a modern design . That's important to know , uh when you design a thing of course .Project Manager: Yes . I I uh noteduh our uh slogan that we have , our company . It's uh we mm put the fashion in electronics .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: So maybe that's a slogan we can put uh somewhere on our remote control orsomething .Marketing: Right .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Alright then um we're going to uh have three presentations .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: You want to start ?Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah . {vocalsound} I think I have to start .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Oh you have to start ? I didn't see anything about uh who had to start .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} The order? No . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Oh no , no problem .Project Manager: Well s then start .User Interface: Mm .Marketing: I I just have to uh to think which file's mine ,User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: 'cause I was uh bit in a hurry .Project Manager: Okay . Well uh {disfmarker}Marketing: I think it's this one . But I'm not sure . {gap}Project Manager: {gap} You already uh opened uhPowerPoint .Marketing: Hmm ? Yeah . S Right .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yes . This is it .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Well , I'm going to tell you something about functional requirements .ProjectManager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Um to start with these points . Uh next sheet ? Um at first I tell you something about what people dislike about the current uh controls , because it's uh a smart thing to exclude thosethings . Uh , furthermore it's very important what they do like and what they do use . {vocalsound} Um then I tell something about um the most important issues . So we have to focus on those three thing three things. And in the end I'll um show you our target {vocalsound} audience or our target product users , customers . Well , {vocalsound} um the first findings are that people um think most controls are very kind of ug ugly.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: That's seventy five per cent of the current users . They don't like it , so we might think about fronts in that section . Um {disfmarker} They also say , that's about uh I thoughtit was fifty per cent , uh that more money will be spent on uh better looking controls . So it's very important that you design a a nice looking control . {vocalsound} Um the current user uses his machine just about wellall of the time for a few functions . Uh , almost every user uses it d the the control for just ten per cent of its capacity . So it's really important to make the the buttons for the common uh tasks kind of big or kind of uhflashy . Furthermore , it's uh {vocalsound} seventy five per cent of the users uh zaps a lot . Thus it might be uh might be smart to make a a big uh zapping button or something in the middle , so you can reach it withyour thumb .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} You can zap away . Yeah . {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah , yeah right .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Right . A lot of losers um users lose their controls in their{vocalsound} in their living room .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: So it might be sensible to make some kind of a button on your television , that's your um your controlbeeps or something , that you can find this very easily .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Well {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: I dunno , maybe that's an idea .Industrial Designer: Oh.Marketing: 'Cause it's uh a big {disfmarker} I think fifty per cent of the users loses his its control , within the same room .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Oh ?Project Manager: It should actually uh {disfmarker} Itshould actually be loose from the television ,User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: because it can also be used for other televisions . So if you deliver a small uh click-on device that you can put on yourtelevision , that bleeps to your remote control , everyone can use it .Marketing: Yeah but what if you lose your click-on device ?Project Manager: No you can click it on your television .Marketing: Yeah but if someone dsomebody else uses it in ano other room or something ?Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah in another room , yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well yes .Marketing: Nee but it it specificallysays it's uh the the control is lost in the same room .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Marketing: So {disfmarker} Well a beeping device would be {disfmarker}ProjectManager: Well we'll have a look at it , yeah .Marketing: Uh furthermore the learning time is a problem . Uh thirty four thirty four per cent um thinks it's it's too uh too difficult to learn . So the the learning curve shouldbe very short uh for the dumbest people should be able to use it .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I think our uh user uh expert should also consider manual a manual for the remote , of course . Uh{disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah but people don't read manuals .Industrial Designer: I didn't read it ?User Interface: No .Industrial Designer: Oh , alright .Marketing: No .Industrial Designer: {gap} users to uh add one ?Do you think ?User Interface: I don't think {disfmarker}Marketing: I think you should put more time in the in the design of uh pick up and use , than a manual .User Interface: Yeah . Yes you should {disfmarker} Youshould could take a look at it and and and know how it how it's supposed to work . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Yep .Industrial Designer: Yeah alright . Because they don't use it ?Alright .Project Manager: Well there sh should always be a menu ,Marketing: Yeah . Right .Project Manager: but it c can be very short .Marketing: And it should be consistent with consistent with older remotes .UserInterface: Yeah but nobody reads a manual about a remote control , I think .Project Manager: Yes okay .Industrial Designer: Well maybe for the {disfmarker} If you don't recognise a button who d who d who do I calluh wh when I don't know it ?Marketing: Alright .User Interface: Yeah right . It sh it should be there , the manual . But but not to explain how the remote works . Only {disfmarker} {gap}Marketing: And we don't havemuch time . So it's better to uh put our attention to the the design . So you can pick up and use it , than {disfmarker} I think .Project Manager: Well we are a design team ,User Interface: Hmm .Project Manager: wecan say to some uh writer uh make a manual point .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Isn't it part of the of the uMarketing: Yeah right , right .Project Manager: SoUser Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: No .No . Never mind .Project Manager: Well we'll have a look . Um yes ?Marketing: Next point . Um R_S_I_ .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Well that's about twenty per cent I thought . But uh the designer shoulduh take it uh {vocalsound} should uh {disfmarker} Wie zeg ik dat ? Yeah , consider the consequences of using your remote .Industrial Designer: Consider the m Yeah .Marketing: It should be a good in your hand .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Yep .Marketing: Right , this is the most important part . Um , we're {disfmarker} Like the requirements said , we're gonna specify of we're gonna target ayounger audience . Um , {vocalsound} that's about sixty per cent of the market , so it's uh quite important . Um research shows that they like to have a little L_C_D_ screen on their on their uh zapping uh device . Uh{disfmarker} I thought it was the age between sixteen and twenty , ninety nine per cent of uh the people like that .Project Manager: Well {disfmarker}Marketing: So it's very important we should definitely have that inour uh designs .Project Manager: Well with twelve Euro fifty as production cost , we can't uh afford an L_C_D_ uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: It's going to be expensive . Yeah .User Interface: No .Marketing: Yeahbut {vocalsound} they think it's really important .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: So if we want to s If we have a big {disfmarker} {vocalsound} If we make lots of uh of the stuff , maybe we can uh buy it verycheap , I dunno . We have to uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Well we'll uh consider it uh .Project Manager: Yeah well uh it's your your task to uh look into the costs uh of thoseuh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: We'll think abo we'll think {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah , I don't know . I don't have any information on that . So {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}NighUser Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I know . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: No , we'll look we'll look into that later . Alright ?Marketing: Right . And uh another thing is uh speech uh recognition . Theyalso like that ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: but research is very uh costly . So {disfmarker}User Interface: I think that's uh difficult to realise also .Marketing: Yeah , but {vocalsound} it {vocalsound} itmight be important for the sale .Industrial Designer: We have very demanding clients .Project Manager: It's not yet a standard uh development uh those so {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} No and we havecustomers in multiple uh countries I think .Project Manager: We shMarketing: Well I do think L_C_D_ is more reachable than the speech recognition .Project Manager: Yeah absolutely .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing:So we might consider L_C_D_ screens .User Interface: {vocalsound} No .Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah , alright . Well we'll consider both and and see what uh what what we can find , I think .Project Manager: Yep.Industrial Designer: We don't rule them out uh yet .Marketing: Alright .Project Manager: {gap} 'Kay .Marketing: Alright . Um , I think that's it . Um {disfmarker}Project Manager: Alright .Marketing: I think it is sensibleto u uh to take this take these points into the notes .Project Manager: Yes .Marketing: So you can {disfmarker} Right .Project Manager: Well you {disfmarker} I c I can uh still see your presentation .Marketing: Yeah .Right .Project Manager: It's in the {disfmarker} Well uh next um I dunno who is next .User Interface: Oh you go .Industrial Designer: Shall I give a technical talk ?Project Manager: Yes .Industrial Designer: Alright.Project Manager: Well go ahead . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Well uh it is my task to uh explain uh or to point out a working design .Project Manager: Yip .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} We have that here .Okay , how do you enlarge it , so that you can have the {disfmarker}Project Manager: F_ five .Industrial Designer: F_ F_ five .Project Manager: {vocalsound} F_ five .Industrial Designer: Yep .User Interface:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Well , the working design ,Marketing: Alright .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: that's my uh {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Next button .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Well alright uh , you know who I am and what I do . So uh we have this . It's a bit uh unclear because I wanted to copy paste something . It was originally in black and whiteMarketing:Oh right .Industrial Designer: but it became black and purple .Marketing: Purple {vocalsound} .Industrial Designer: But I think you can read it .User Interface: {vocalsound} {gap}Project Manager:{vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah , yeah , yeah . A bit .Industrial Designer: Um well um I think it's important uh for you to realise the basic function of a remote control . Uh well you can see uh {disfmarker}Marketing:Maybe you can select it . So it uh inverts .Industrial Designer: {gap} And I then can select I can select on the dings {gap} It goes to the next page .Marketing: {gap} the p the whole picture .Project Manager: Click .{vocalsound}Marketing: Nah , uh never mind .Industrial Designer: Well , you can read it ,User Interface: Yeah , go ahead .Industrial Designer: it's not too difficult . Meanwhile , this is a schematic uh um view of uh howa basic remote control works . You have uh basically uh the energy , the power of the of the remote control , uh and the sender , w which is the LED , the the the the the the the the the bulb that sends the the infraredbeam to the , no , to the set .Marketing: Yeah . Alright .Industrial Designer: And uh the source is of course the user . Uh the user interface is um {vocalsound} uh the {vocalsound} the {gap} the buttons of course .UserInterface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: And the {vocalsound} the user interface sends uh the the different signals of the different buttons to the chip , and the chip uh sends it to the LED , and the LED sends it tothe receiver . That's the that's the basic idea .Project Manager: Yep .Industrial Designer: Very basic .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Um well I have uh {vocalsound} uh {vocalsound} put it in a in in in a{vocalsound} a couple of basic steps .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Uh the remote uh is basically just waiting for a user to press a key . It does nothing until uh of course uh the key is pressed .The key {gap} a signal to a chip , uh the chip senses the connection . {vocalsound} uh and recognise the key . So {vocalsound} well you understand .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: The chip uhproduces Morse code , um a specific code to indicate that specific button that is pressed , of course . And it uses transistors in the in the remote control to amplify and to send uh that signal again to the to the LED ,which is the bulb , of course .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Now the LED produces an infrared beam and signals the , well it's uh very simple , and signals the uh signals to the sensor on the T_V_set ,Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and the T_V_ set uh also recognises the the {vocalsound} the signal , and performs the assigned task .Project Manager: So it is also why wehave to have a button that says uh I'm now busy with a D_V_D_ uh if we had done that . And a button for T_V_ . So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Ah bu Yeah , but we don't . Uh we {disfmarker} {vocalsound}UserInterface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: No no , but {disfmarker} Yeah . Exactly . Uh well this is uh the basic uh function of a remote .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I've some couple of pictureshere . It's a very basic one . And uh {gap} if we if we're going to add an uh an uh L_C_D_ screen to it , it uh won't look anything like this , but {disfmarker} This is very basic uh basically the the shape of um of aremote control . It has uh very little buttons and {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: But it it uh it's it's quite um {disfmarker} Yeah , you can easily recognise the buttons . They're uh farenough apart and an anything . It's not very um uh not very high-tech uhUser Interface: High tech . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: indeed , and it's not very user-friendly . Uh if you look at the shape , it's uh just a"}
{"doc_id":"doc_183","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: So uh good morning .User Interface: Morning .Marketing: Morning .Project Manager: I see you all find your places .Industrial Designer: Morning .Project Manager: Is everybody sitting on the right place? Yeah ?Marketing: Yep .Project Manager: I guess so . So {disfmarker} Let's see . First I will introduce myself . I don't know if uh {disfmarker} if everybody knows me , so I'm Bart ,Marketing: My name's Frank .ProjectManager: hello . Hello .User Interface: I'm {gap} .Project Manager: Bart . Hello . Hello . Bart .Industrial Designer: {gap}Project Manager: Welcome .Marketing: Thank you .Project Manager: Uh let's see . Uh let's startoff um with a little presentation . Uh Now first I'll tell you a little bit about the setting . You can see there are a few cameras here . They'll record uh our actions and you'll have wires and microphones that will recordyour voice . Uh there are also some microphones there but th um you don't have to pay a lot of attention on those , because it will uh disappear when you don't attend to it . So is there a project documents folder ?There are some notes in it already I see , some documents . Uh I'll start with the presentation kick off . Is being modified by the administrator . Uh okay {vocalsound} .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound} Hmm , that's interesting .Project Manager: Let's do it read only . Well I don't know if you've noticed , but uh we're working for Real Reaction . Uh it's a company in uh electronics . We put fashion inelectronics , uh we make it work , uh we put a lot of effort in design and in the product itself . I'm Bart {gap} the project manager so I'll direct you through the project . This is our agenda . {vocalsound} Uh we haveour opening acquaintance , tool training , project plan description closing .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh maybe I can sit down , then I can take some notes or {disfmarker} Let's see . Maybe you cantake the minutes once in a while .Marketing: Sure .Project Manager: I dunno it's not a lot of work , but just uh if you hear something uh you can write down , just write it down . Uh as you can see uh it's the opening ,aquaintance tool training . Aquaintance is a point we've done a bit . Um have you all seen the corporate website already ? Yeah .User Interface: Yep .Marketing: Yep . Visit it .Project Manager: Have you seen any flawsin it ? I think I found one . {vocalsound} No ?User Interface: Hmm ?Marketing: Can't say I paid much attention to it ,Project Manager: I can see if it works this way . No , it doesn't work here .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay no problem . But um on the corporate information side there's a th uh {disfmarker} there was Real Remote instead of Real Reaction .Marketing: Ohyeah .Project Manager: Real Remote is not really the company we're {disfmarker} we are , but it's just a little {gap} fault .User Interface: Okay . Yeah .Project Manager: Um okay , what are we going to do ?{vocalsound} Uh our project aim is as you can see a new remote control . It has to be original , trendy , and user friendly . So these are uh the points why uh we also hired you . {vocalsound} We've got the MarketingExpert for uh the trendy and user friendly look .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: And Industrial Designer uh there's also user friendly and a bit original . {vocalsound} And we've got our User Interface Designer .UserInterface: Yep .Project Manager: He's also uh {disfmarker} That's about the new remote control . Uh project method um is uh there are three phases we are going through . First is functional des uh design , individualwork , meetings . After the functional design , then the conceptual design and the detailed design . {vocalsound} I had some role indications on here . But I think you know it already by yourself . The IndustrialDesigner is going to work on the working design , uh components design and a bit of the look and feel design . Uh the User Interface Designer is going to do the technical function design , user interface concept anduser interface design . {vocalsound} And the marketing expert is doing a little bit of user requirement specification , trend watching and project {disfmarker} uh product ev evaluation . So that's a bit what you're goingto do . But that will be all worked out in uh other meetings .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Then we've got our first tool training . {vocalsound} We are going to work with a lot of high-tech tools here , so it'sab it's handy if we have a little bit of training first . As you can see we've got the smart boards here and here in the white board . Um in the white board here there's a little tool bar on this side . Here are some functions. You can save . N uh these functions we don't have anything to do with , only undo , you can undo a little uh piece of drawing . A blank new document for each person . Uh select a pen , eraser . Capture we don't haveto do anything with . Uh then we've got our pen . This pen . It's really funny because you can draw with it on this page um in the {disfmarker} think it is form of .Marketing: 'Kay .Project Manager: You can also selectthe current colour and the line width . But then first you have to select the pen function .User Interface: Hmm .Project Manager: But we're going to work with it in a minute . So okay . Uh that's very simple and it's easyto uh draw your findings and drawings on there . {vocalsound} Uh then a short thing about documents . We've got our shared folder , project {gap} project {disfmarker} what was it ? Project documents {gap} I think .But all you will found that already because there are a lot of documents in it already , so it will be okay . And these are available on the smart boards as well , so if you have a document you wanna show , just open itfrom the folder .User Interface: Okay . Yeah .Project Manager: Here is a simple tool bar . It's what I just said , it's save , print , move back or forward one page . You can switch between the different drawings . Andthen we're going to try out the white board .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} So as you can see we g all {vocalsound} going to draw a animal . {vocalsound} Just to uh uh just to get abit familiar with it .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Mouse wasn't running away . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: That wasinteresting .Project Manager: Is everybody {disfmarker} is anybody playing with the mouse ? No .Marketing: {vocalsound} Innocent .Project Manager: Okay . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}ProjectManager: We're going to uh draw animal . {vocalsound} And uh just sum up a few of its favourite characteristics .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um the only thing we have to uh look after is that we usedifferent colours , and different line width .Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh there's {disfmarker} I can start from now . I will . You can use this pen by holding it like a like a little child .Because if you hold it like this , the sensors will get blocked and then the drawing won't get good .User Interface: Okay .Marketing: 'Kay .Project Manager: Another thing is you have to be uh a bit slow . 'Cause if you'regoing to draw like really fast then um the pen won't hold up . So we choose form of current colour uh I think grey is appropriate . Then the line width . I think seven will be nice . Now you'll see my drawing capabilities.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: These are not very much , but uh {disfmarker} Uh , see you have to do it real slow . {vocalsound} Oh {gap}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager:{vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Sure .Project Manager: Ah I was trying to draw a dolphin ,User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: but I think hisnose has to be a little bit {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: But it's close .Marketing: I'm thinking about a swordfish .Project Manager: So what {disfmarker} yeah it's{disfmarker} this is bit of the swordfish .User Interface: Yeah . Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah , he hasn't got an eye .User Interface: {gap} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Woah . {vocalsound} Now we've got another function . We've got the eraser .Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} .Project Manager: {vocalsound} And then you can undo this easily.Marketing: Meat .Project Manager: Ah it's okay .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: And I've got to write down a few of its characteristics . Uh is {disfmarker} They've got no text tool , no . Uh .{vocalsound} Okay .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: This is typically a undo action , I think . {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Pen . Maybe you haveto hold it a bit upside-down . I think that's it because if you wan ar are going to do it like this then it will be a stripe . But I don't know , I'm just trying . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} This is not my work ,IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: okay .Marketing: Hmm .Project Manager: Maybe you have to use {disfmarker} Oh .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh . I think it's a{disfmarker} it wants to draw a {disfmarker} another animal ? I don't know . It lives for the fun . So {disfmarker} It's my characteristic uh characteristic about the dolphin . It lives for the fun . So now I'm gonna handover the pen on the new blank sheet to you .User Interface: Okay .Marketing: Okay . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Go ahead .Marketing: Thank you . Okay . Gonna use a different linewidth . And I'm gonna draw in black . There . 'Kay , I'm not much of an artist , but here we go .Project Manager: Maybe it's easier to draw the smaller line width , I think . Because this is going a lot better than uh I did.User Interface: Hmm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: A sheep .Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager:{vocalsound}Marketing: This is my um {disfmarker} Hmm . Sheep .Project Manager: It's nice . {vocalsound}Marketing: With of courseProject Manager: {vocalsound} Uh .Marketing: little blue dot they always getsprayed on their butts .Project Manager: {vocalsound} It's a real dead sheep ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: There .Project Manager: yeah . {vocalsound} For recognition ,Marketing: Yeah .{vocalsound}Project Manager: yeah , I see . {vocalsound} Um maybe you can also write your name somewhere .Marketing: 'Kay .Project Manager: On just a {disfmarker}Marketing: They are {disfmarker}ProjectManager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Come on . You have to go really slow when you're writing .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: They're brilliant animal animals .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: And that's just a little me thingy . So . Guess I'll pass the pen to our User Interface Designer .Project Manager: Nice .User Interface: Okay . Um I'm just gonna draw its uh head ,but mm {disfmarker} Let's see . Mm . Uh . {gap} Okay . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Sweet . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Interesting.User Interface: You know what that is ? Or who ?Industrial Designer: Garfield .Marketing: A rabbit ?User Interface: Ah okay , yeah .Marketing: Garfield . Yeah .User Interface: Just a {disfmarker} Mm . Guess . So uh{disfmarker} {vocalsound} Yeah . That's enough . {vocalsound} Um , you say a blank ,Project Manager: Yeah , just a blank sheet .User Interface: or {disfmarker} Okay .Industrial Designer: Well I was gonna draw acat too , so .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I'll just try something else .Project Manager: No . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Something different than Garfield .UserInterface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Mine is a bit more skinny . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah , it's pretty skinny cat . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah . {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound} But uh {disfmarker}Marketing: And the most interesting tail .Project Manager: Is your cat , or did you find him on the street ? {gap} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}UserInterface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well , it's supposed to be a cat . I like cats because uh they are uh independent .Project Manager: Ah . {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: The pen . So .Project Manager: Okay . That's pretty clear . So everybody knows how to work with the white board now ? So if you have any ideas or if you wanna draw anything on the white board , justaskMarketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: The pen . {vocalsound}Project Manager: and go ahead . It's pretty uh easy .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} 'Kay .User Interface: {vocalsound}ProjectManager: S {gap}Marketing: We're being haunted .Project Manager: haunted white board . {vocalsound} So we've got the tool uh introduction . We move along to the project finance .Marketing: {vocalsound}ProjectManager: Um as you can see , we um for our remote control , a selling price is uh twenty five Euros . Our selling price . Uh our profit aim is fifty million Euros . Uh that's the least we have to get from our remote controls, so we have to work together to reach our aims . Uh we can do it international , so we have to focus on different kind of users , different kind of cultures , and different kind of trends as well . Um but that's all in thelater stadium . Our production cost um can be maximal twelve and a half Euros , so that's also a point we have to keep in mind , that we won't make remote controls with small televisions inside , and stuff like that . Itwon't work . So just try to remember these points . Selling price twenty five , profit aims fifty million um , but more important is the int international market we're trying to focus on . And production cost uh maximaltwelve and a half Euros . So that's leads us to our little discussion . We've got about five or ten minutes left for discussion . So I'm gonna sit down , I think . It's easier .Marketing: Yeah , you got a message .ProjectManager: I've got a message . Five minutes . Okay ,User Interface: Five minutes , okay .Project Manager: that's uh good timing . {vocalsound} {gap}Marketing: So just on a side note , why is it my laptop is only givingme a black screen ?User Interface: Mm ?Project Manager: Uh maybe you have to say the magic word . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah . Right .Project Manager: Does it doanything ?Marketing: No .Project Manager: Maybe you have to just clap it down ? Mm back up again . No slide show . Hmm .Marketing: It's off now .Project Manager: It's off . Now you have to put it back o Oh yeah .You'll be okay , I think .Marketing: Well , it was on , but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well it's those laptops . {vocalsound}Marketing: Ah , there we are .Project Manager: Nice . Okay . {vocalsound} But so mm doeseverybody has um experiences with uh remote controls , and I mean not the ordinary mote controls , but also a little bit different ones ? Like you can use for other ?Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Mm . Ohreally ?Project Manager: No ?User Interface: Huh .Project Manager: You ? {vocalsound}User Interface: It's a {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: No , me neither .Marketing: Well , we have a kind of broad T_V_ at home ,and a D_V_D_ player , so we got like a lot of remote controls , one for the T_V_ , one for the video recorder , one for the D_V_D_ player .Project Manager: Ah yeah .Marketing: And I think it's {disfmarker} it would bebest to just make one remote control that can operate them all .Project Manager: Yep . YeahUser Interface: Sure . Yeah .Project Manager: I've I've got one at home . And you can uh program I think eight differentdevices in it , and you can use it for your television , anything else .User Interface: Okay , yeah . Yeah .Project Manager: And it also operates on infra-red , so you have to got the little device inside your room , and thenyou can operate it from the third or th or second floor .User Interface: Okay , yeah .Marketing: OhProject Manager: So that's pretty handy when you have a video recorder or D_V_D_ player downstairs and you've got alink to your T_V_ on the second floor . So that's a pretty handy umMarketing: really .User Interface: Hmm . Oh . Mm-hmm .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: thing . {vocalsound} Um but only the I think that if youcan put different kind of devices in one remote control , it makes it a lot easier as well . It's uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: Oh .Project Manager: That's good to remember .Marketing: So I think youcan take minutes again .Project Manager: Yeah , that's nice , I think . {vocalsound}Marketing: Since it's your job .Project Manager: So we've {disfmarker} we want different functionsMarketing: Yeah .Project Manager:uh and we can maybe see if we can do something with the infra-red . But I don't know if that will exceed the production costs . So that uh that's something we have to find out , I think .User Interface: Mm .Marketing:Yeah . But that would be really good if we could do that . {vocalsound}Project Manager: And other functions for a remote control ? Maybe we can make it uh uhUser Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Um . Think it has tobe shock proofUser Interface: Sure , yeah .Marketing: 'causeProject Manager: Shock proof .Marketing: my remote control tends to fall a lot .User Interface: Waterproof , or uh {disfmarker}Project Manager:{vocalsound} Sure .User Interface: Uh , you never no know uh ,Marketing: So {disfmarker}User Interface: I w I mean uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Waterproof . Okay . So these are our um a few things we canthink of . Um I will put the minutes from this meeting uh in our project folder .User Interface: 'Kay .Marketing: Yeah , one other little thing . Thought it might be handy to put a battery status display on it .ProjectManager: That's a {disfmarker}Marketing: So you can seeProject Manager: battery stays .User Interface: Okay , yeah .Marketing: how much is left in the battery . But they'll also really drag up the production costs , sothink we'll have to see about that too .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: Uh .Marketing: But maybe just a little LED , I don't know .Project Manager: That's an idea as well . Other ideas ?Quick ideas .Industrial Designer: Nope .User Interface: Mm .Industrial Designer: They were all mentioned ,Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: so {disfmarker}Project Manager: Anyquestions about this uh presentation ? Kick off presentation .Marketing: Um . Nope , don't think so .Project Manager: No ?User Interface: {gap}Project Manager: Okay , then I'll put the minutes from this meeting in theproject folder , and then we can all work . Finish meeting now . {vocalsound} Okay . {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: And we can all work uh on our own projects . {vocalsound}Marketing: Aye sir.Project Manager: Okay then I'll meet you in about a half an hour , I think .Marketing: Half an hour .Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: So good luck . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: Okay.Marketing: Okay .User Interface: Yep ."}
{"doc_id":"doc_184","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay . Good afternoon again .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So we should have our final meeting about the detail designed of{disfmarker} detail design of the product of the remote control . Um {vocalsound} So here is the agenda for today . Uh uh just going to go quickly through the minutes of the last last uh meeting then we have a ppresentation of prototype of you two , sounds interesting . And we'll have um {vocalsound} presentation of evaluation crit criteria by ou our Marketing Experts . Then we'll have to go through finance evaluation of the ofthe cost of the thing and um hopefully uh we should fit the target o tw of twelve point five uh uh Euro . {vocalsound} Okay . So let's go . Uh if I go quickly through the minutes of the last meeting . {vocalsound} So wewent through th uh w we took this following decisions . No L_C_D_ , no speech recognition technology , okay , we went through a b to a banana look and feel for the remote control . We went through the use of wheelsand but buttons . {vocalsound} And also the use of a basis station for battery ch charging and uh also to um call the to call the mot mote remote control when it is lost . Okay . Um . Good . So guys let {gap} this uhwonderful thing .Industrial Designer: Okay so we can go to the slides .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Oh yeah . Sorry . Um .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Number three . Oh number two sorry .Project Manager: Which is{gap} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So final design . Final design . Okay so Michael you can go ahead .User Interface: Yeah so uh following our decision to uh make a yellow {disfmarker} well to make abananaProject Manager: Yeah can you show it to the the camera maybe .User Interface: remote {disfmarker} okay so we actually have a {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: You can pull it out first , maybe .UserInterface: We've {disfmarker} well first first of all we made a an attractive {vocalsound} base station uh with a banana leaf uh look and feel um and uhProject Manager: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}User Interface: bana sit{disfmarker} the banana sits in there k you know nicely weighted so that it's not gonna tip over and um this is the remote itself , it's kind of it's it's ergonomic , it fits in the hand uh rather well . We've got the two uh{vocalsound} uh scroll wheels here which you know one on the the left for the uh volume and the one on the right for for the channel and uh underneath {vocalsound} we have the uh the turbo button which is in like anice uh trigger position for you know for pressing quite naturally .Project Manager: What's the use uh of the t turbo button already ?User Interface: This is when you when you uh are scrolling the uh {disfmarker}through the channels you can tell it to to skip th past channels that you {disfmarker} quickly rather thProject Manager: Ah yeah yeah an then you stop when you stop it stops .User Interface: Yeah . Well when you stopscrolling the wheel it stops . But normally with uh {disfmarker} it will just uh s stay on each station briefly so you can see the the picture .Industrial Designer: Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Uh-huh .IndustrialDesigner: And we we do have one more functionality . If you take the banana as such and uh you press the turbo button , so it switch ons the switch ons the T_V_ .User Interface: The T_V_ yeah .Project Manager:Which one ?User Interface: The s the turbo button .Industrial Designer: The turbo button .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: So rather than having uh an extra button for um for the on off switch you just use theturbo button .Industrial Designer: Additional button .Marketing: What this button for ?User Interface: This is a teletext button . So once you press that then you get teletextMarketing: Okay .User Interface: and you canuse the the channel selector scroll wheel as uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: To navigate it through th through teletext .User Interface: To navigate yeah .Marketing: But if you want to go to page seven hundred?Industrial Designer: That's right , that's right .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: {gap} with the wheel it's easy .Marketing: How manUser Interface: Well then you can you you have like a little uh numberselection thing , you press the {gap} the the teletext button uh to move between uh the fields and then you can just scroll the number back and forth so you have s you go {disfmarker} you scroll to seven and thenzero zero and then you can uh {disfmarker}Marketing: I don't understand it . Can you repeat it ? {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Well you can you can press press the teletext buttonIndustrial Designer:{vocalsound}User Interface: and then you then you can you can fIndustrial Designer: So then then both the scroll buttons they are for teletext browsing .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: And you canteleMarketing: Ah okay okay . Okay . Okay okay .Industrial Designer: yeah ,User Interface: Mm uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: once you press the teletext button then the scroll buttons they are more for teletext ,they are no more for channel or vol volume .Marketing: Okay . I see . I see . Okay . Okay .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound} And this is the uh the infrared uh port .Industrial Designer: That's right.User Interface: Also the top of the banana .Project Manager: Excellent .User Interface: So . And then we haveIndustrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: in the uh in the base station we have the the button at the frontfor uh for calling the uh the banana .Project Manager: Calling . Excellent .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: And the the leaves plays the roles of of antennas ?User Interface: Actually they do .ProjectManager: Oh .User Interface: That's that's yeah that's uh that's form and function in the one in the one uh object .Industrial Designer: Yeah . So it always means , whatever the rays goes by they they get reflected andthen you are having a better coverage .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: It's like antennas .User Interface: Yeah . So .Marketing: {gap}User Interface: But yeah that's um that's just like {disfmarker}that's an attractive um base station .Project Manager: Great . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} So .Project Manager: So , what else ?User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: And for the power source we arehaving solar cells and rechargeable batteries and this and uh the basis station is going to have the input from the mm power line for for charging the batteries .Marketing: {vocalsound} Is it really weight ? Is it light or{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: It is very light .Project Manager: Yeah , they're light .User Interface: It's it's uh it's about the weight of a banana .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay.User Interface: You know , to give you the correct look and feel .Project Manager: {gap}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: OkIndustrial Designer: And we have put these different colours so that people don'tmistake them mistake it as a banana .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Otherwise it's you know a child comes and so {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay . Yeah yeah yeah , I see . I under I understand .UserInterface: I think a child would try to eat it anyway , so maybe we shouldIndustrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: consider that . {gap} maybe health and safety aspects .Project Manager: Ah yeah .IndustrialDesigner: Mm-hmm .User Interface: {gap}Industrial Designer: Oh we didn't think of that yet . Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: So for the power source , apparently you still {disfmarker} you you want touse both solar cells and batteries .Industrial Designer: Oh yeah that's right .Project Manager: Uh you mean {disfmarker} okay . So {disfmarker}User Interface: I don't really know if the solar cells are actually necessaryany more if you have a recharging base station .Project Manager: Yeah , where are going to {disfmarker} where are you are you going to place them ?Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm mm-hmm . It'll It'll be always at topsomewhere at there .User Interface: If I was gonna place them I'd put them on the on the top here since that's like uh the black bitProject Manager: You have enough surface ? You {gap} {disfmarker}User Interface:but yeah I don't I really don't think it's necessary to have the solar cells anymore .Industrial Designer: Yeah because now we are having rechargeable batteriesProject Manager: Okay .User Interface: Mm .IndustrialDesigner: so that that is {gap} .Project Manager: What will be the autonomy ? Roughly ?User Interface: The what sorry ?Project Manager: The autonomy . Autonomy .User Interface: What do you mean ?ProjectManager: Uh I mean how long does i how how how long can it be held off a station ?Marketing: How long the {disfmarker} how long the bit the batteries long .User Interface: Ah . Ah . A long time .Project Manager:Yeah . A long {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} No no no ,Industrial Designer: Eight to ten eight to ten hours .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: it can {disfmarker} it should be weeks.Industrial Designer: N most {disfmarker} no most of the time it's not being used .Project Manager: Yeah , so it's {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah but y people don't like to put it back in the base station all the timepeople leave wanna leave it on the couch so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So when when you are making it on {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's used only when you {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm .Mm-hmm . No eight or eight or ten hours of working .User Interface: Ah , okay .Industrial Designer: If you are just leaving like that it'll be much longer .User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: Yeah . F weeks .UserInterface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah . That's right .Project Manager: Right . Next slide ?Industrial Designer: Yeah . And we are having the speakers regular chip for control . Pricing is {disfmarker} was a factor sothat's why we have gone for a regular chip only not the advanced chip . And uh that's it .Project Manager: Okay . {gap} Okay . Those really sounds very good .Industrial Designer: That's right .Project Manager:{vocalsound} Nothing else to add ?User Interface: It seems to be falling over .Marketing: I l yeah .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: I like I like it . Maybe the the thing that convince me the less is the {vocalsound}the multifunctional buttons . Looks a bit {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: You want to have more functional buttons ?Marketing: Looks a bit puzzled uh I dunno how to say {vocalsound} that .Industrial Designer: Youare not convinced .Marketing: You {disfmarker} the the b the buttons change h h their function depending if y it's teletext or not {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Not not many , we we want to keep it simple . So thatthis button fo is for teletext which is usually also the case , that usually there is a teletext button and once you press that , the channel buttons , they baco become the scrolling buttons .Marketing: And the volumebutton will will become {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: It's up to you , means .Project Manager: Well in fact b both will be {disfmarker} could be useful , navigating through teletext .Industrial Designer: Now that{disfmarker} Means let's say this this can move the the larger digits and this can move the smaller digits .User Interface: Or can move between positions in the in the number .Industrial Designer: That's right .ProjectManager: Yeah .Marketing: And what about people who want to use digits ? Butto real buttons ?Project Manager: Wow .Industrial Designer: Yeah . So there was there was a constraint that the surface area which wehave on this banana on one side because of the shape .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So we are targeting a segment which is which is just very trendy kind of thing , they they don't care about thebuttons any more . And anyway {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay . Because have you thought about configuration and all this kind of uh stuff ?User Interface: It's all automatic .Marketing: It's all automatic .User Interface:Yep .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay . {vocalsound} Okay yeah it's fine .Project Manager: Very good uh yeah{disfmarker}Marketing: W we are living in a wonderful world . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} you th yeah .User Interface: Uh . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager:{vocalsound} Bananas everywhere .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay , so {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: Automatically configure {gap} . {vocalsound}Project Manager:{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So we have to go through now evaluations .Industrial Designer: Evalua yeah .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound} So your slides are ready?Marketing: SProject Manager: Uh you're four I think .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: So this is one , which one is this one ?Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay . I{vocalsound} I const I constructed a a list of criteria based on the on the general user requirements . And each criteria is {vocalsound} will be evaluated it's uh logical criteria so we must users must say i if it's true or is{disfmarker} or if it's false in a in a scale ranging from zero to seven .Industrial Designer: Why this strange factor of seven ?Marketing: Because i I'm sorry . Sorry .Industrial Designer: Usually I have seen that scalesare from one to ten .Marketing: Ah yeah . It's from {disfmarker} sorry , it's from one to seven . It's from from one to seven sorry . Because it should be an even it should be an even uh scale ,Industrial Designer: Okay.Project Manager: Num number {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Okay . Mm-hmm .Marketing: and five is too short and nine is too long .Industrial Designer: Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound} I'm a I I'm{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Okay fine , got the idea .Project Manager: So to have {disfmarker} in order to have enough granularity {disfmarker}Marketing: Sorry ?Project Manager: it's in order to have enoughgranularity in the evaluation .Marketing: Yeah yeah .Industrial Designer: Okay .Marketing: The variance is mi it's is minimal .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: Okay , okay , great .Marketing: I'm umanswering your question .Industrial Designer: Okay . Yeah yeah .Marketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: Go ahead .Marketing: {vocalsound} And that's the criteria I I found more useful . I think I sh I {vocalsound} Icould write the criteria in the on the whiteboard ?Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm . Sure .Marketing: And we all four could rangeIndustrial Designer: Okay . Yeah yeah . Yeah .Marketing: could evaluate the{disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: {gap}Industrial Designer: So you can say fancy , handy . Handy .Marketing: Okay let's let's evaluate if it's fancy or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah , it's fancy ,according to me .Marketing: Seven but {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah , six .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: S seven .Industrial Designer: Seven .Seven by me .Project Manager: Six .Marketing: I would say seven .Industrial Designer: Okay .Marketing: It's quite fancy .Industrial Designer: So you can add seven plus six plus seven plus {disfmarker}User Interface:{vocalsound}Project Manager: No , wait .User Interface: Yeah uh five .Project Manager: What do you say seven ? Five ?Industrial Designer: Five .User Interface: Five , maybe maybe maybe six it's it's I guess it's{disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay , six point five .User Interface: yeah .Project Manager: Handy ?User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Again I'll give seven .Project Manager: Seven .User Interface: I'dgive it a six like I'd I think it's probably more handy than my current remote , 'cause of the scroll wheelsMarketing: Six .Industrial Designer: Yep .User Interface: but maybe loses the point for not having you know theextra buttons when you reall if you do need them for some reason but you know you can always use your other remote .Project Manager: So seven , seven ,Industrial Designer: Seven for me .Project Manager: six ,UserInterface: Yeah .Marketing: Six .Project Manager: six point five . Functional . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I'll give five .Project Manager: Four .Marketing: I would say{disfmarker} {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {gap}User Interface: Well it depends when you say functional , do you mean it does what we want it to do , or d does what it does , youknow , can it make you coffee ?Marketing: Everything arProject Manager: {vocalsound} Uh for a remote control , does he have all the {gap}User Interface: You know .Marketing: Mm everything {disfmarker}UserInterface: {vocalsound} Yeah . Yeah . {gap}Project Manager: you could expect .Marketing: It's compared to the allIndustrial Designer: That's right .Marketing: remote controls .User Interface: That's before{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: That's right . The standards . What is available in the market off the shelf .User Interface: Yeah . I have to say four .Marketing: Actually I don't know what are the r the real specificationof a of a universal remote controUser Interface: Well it's not a universal remote . Remember we're focus we're supposed to focus just on T_V_s .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} We {disfmarker}Marketing: Ah it's notan univer but it's for all kind of T_V_s ?Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Well all T_V_s but only T_ {disfmarker} only T_V_s I guess .Project Manager: {vocalsound} So it's universal but for T_V_s . {vocalsound}So s uh four ?Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Five .Project Manager: Five ?User Interface: Four .Project Manager: Four .Marketing: Four . Four .Industrial Designer: So four point two ?User Interface: Just four.Project Manager: Four .Industrial Designer: {gap} four . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Obviously there are some outliers so {disfmarker}Marketing: So four ?Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Okay cool ? Cool device .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: There I'll give it seven .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: It means cool features , like new featuresactually .Industrial Designer: That's right .User Interface: {vocalsound} Which {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: For a T_V_ the most important feature which I felt was the locator which is a cool feature . And then thescroll buttons are again cool features . We don't have L_C_D_ for it but that we decided we don't want to have .Project Manager: Yeah . Seven .Marketing: I would say five .User Interface: I'll say five .Project Manager:Six .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm . Seven .Project Manager: Plus six , I say {disfmarker} I said seven .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: So it's six .User Interface: S yeah .Marketing: You said seven ?{vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: 'Cause it's five five seven seven so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Okay .User Interface: Uh , okay , definitely easy to use .Industrial Designer: Definitely seven.User Interface: Seven .Project Manager: Seven . Seven . And you ? Outl you are not lik outlier .Marketing: Five . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Seven {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay okay okay okay .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay .Marketing: Sorry , I have them {disfmarker}User Interface: Alright , now here's the sixty million Dollarquestion ,Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: well , twenty five twenty five Euro question .Project Manager: Of course I'll buy the {gap} banana . {gap}User Interface: What do you what do you guys reckon?Marketing: {vocalsound} Of cour Of course the most difficult question for the end . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I'll say five .User Interface: Hmm .Industrial Designer: I'll sayfive .Project Manager: Twenty five Euros . {vocalsound} Cheap .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: I find it quite cheap {vocalsound} actually .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: I dunno . If i i itdepends , if you live in in Switzerland or you live in {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah , so the target price is for all Europe , or only for rich countries ? {vocalsound} It's more targeting U_K_ or{disfmarker}Marketing: I don't know . Wha the initial specifications were for the whole all Europe or {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: So this is selling costs , not productioncosts .User Interface: Yeah . Yeah .Marketing: Yeah this is the the initial specifications .Project Manager: Yeah yeah sure . Um {disfmarker} Five .Marketing: I would say six . It's quite cheap actually .User Interface: I'd"}
{"doc_id":"doc_185","qid":"","text":"Grad A: Why ?Grad D: Um .Grad E: I 'm known . I {disfmarker}Grad A: No , cuz she already told me it , before she told you .Grad E: No , she told me a long time ago . She told me {disfmarker} she told me like twoweeks ago .Grad A: Oh , well , it doesn't matter what time .Grad B: OK . You know how to toggle the display width {pause} function {disfmarker}Grad A: Well maybe she hadn't just started transcribing me yet .Grad D:Wow .Grad A: Anyway .Grad D: What is it ?Grad E: Let me explain something to you .Grad D: Um ,Grad E: My laugh is better than yours .Grad D: there .Grad A: I beg to differ .Grad B: Yo .Grad D: Um , OK .Grad A:But you have to say something genuinely funny before you 'll get an example .Grad E: Yeah .Grad D: The thing is I don't know how to get to the next page . Here .Grad E: No . You should be {disfmarker} at least beself - satisfied enough to laugh at your own jokes .Grad D: Actually I thought {disfmarker}Grad A: No , it 's a different laugh .Grad D: There .Grad A: Ooh , wow !Grad D: How weird .Grad E: Oh ! Holy mackerel .GradA: Wow . Whoa !Grad D: What ? ! Oh . OK . I wasn't even doing anything . {vocalsound} OK .Grad A: Uh .Grad E: Eva 's got a laptop , she 's trying to show it off .Grad D: That was r actually Robert 's idea . But anyhow. UmProfessor F: O K . So , here we are .Grad E: Once again .Professor F: Once again , right , together . Um , so we haven't had a meeting for a while , and {disfmarker} and probably won't have one next week , I thinka number of people are gone . Um , so Robert , why don't you bring us up to date on where we are with EDU ?Grad B: Um , uh in a {disfmarker} in a smaller group we had uh , talked and decided about continuation ofthe data collection . So Fey 's time with us is almost officially over , and she brought us some thirty subjects and , t collected the data , and ten dialogues have been transcribed and can be looked at . If you 'reinterested in that , talk to me . Um , and we found another uh , cogsci student who 's interested in playing wizard for us . Here we 're gonna make it a little bit more complicated for the subjects , uh this round . She 'sactually suggested to look um , at the psychology department students , because they have to partake in two experiments in order to fulfill some requirements . So they have to be subjected , {vocalsound} {comment}before they can actually graduate . And um , we want to design it so that they really have to think about having some time , two days , for example , to plan certain things and figure out which can be done at what time, and , um , sort of package the whole thing in a {disfmarker} in a re in a few more complicated um , structure . That 's for the data collection . As for SmartKom , I 'm {disfmarker} the last SmartKom meeting Imentioned that we have some problems with the synthesis , which as of this morning should be resolved . And , so ,Professor F: Good .Grad B: \" should be \" means they aren't yet , but {disfmarker} but I think I havethe info now that I need . Plus , Johno and I are meeting tomorrow , so maybe uh uh , when tomorrow is over , we 're done . And ha n hav we 'll never have to look at it again Maybe it 'll take some more time , to berealistic , but at least we 're {disfmarker} we 're seeing the end of the tunnel there . That was that . Um , the uh , uh I don't think we need to discuss the formalism that 'll be done officially s once we 're done . Um ,something happened , in {disfmarker} on Eva 's side with the PRM that we 're gonna look at today , and um , we have a visitor from Bruchsal from the International University . Andreas , I think you 've met everyoneexcept Nancy .Grad A: Sorry . Hi . Hi .Grad C: Yeah .Grad B: Hi . Hi .Grad A: So when you said \" Andreas \" I thought you were talking about Stolcke .Grad B: And , um ,Grad A: Now I know that we aren't , OK .Grad B:Andy , you actually go by Andy , right ? Oh , OK .Grad C: Yeah .Grad B: Eh {disfmarker}Grad C: Cuz there is another Andreas around ,Grad A: Hmm .Grad C: so , to avoid some confusion .Grad B: That will be {pause}Reuter ? Oh , OK .Grad C: Yeah .Grad B: So my scientific director of the EML is also the dean of the International University , one of his many occupations that just contributes to the fact that he is very occupied . And ,um , the {disfmarker} um , he @ @ might tell us a little bit about what he 's actually doing , and why it is s somewhat related , and {disfmarker} by uh using maybe some of the same technologies that we are using .And um . Was that enough of an update ?Professor F: I think so .Grad B: In what order shall we proceed ?Grad D: OK .Grad B: Maybe you have your on - line {disfmarker}Grad D: Uh , yeah , sure . Um , so , I 've bejust been looking at , um , Ack ! What are you doing ? Yeah . OK . Um , I 've been looking at the PRM stuff . Um , so , this is , sort of like the latest thing I have on it , and I sorta constructed a couple of classes . Like , auser class , a site class , and {disfmarker} and you know , a time , a route , and then {disfmarker} and a query class . And I tried to simplify it down a little bit , so that I can actually um , look at it more . It 's the samepaper that I gave to Jerry last time . Um , so basically I took out a lot of stuff , a lot of the decision nodes , and then tried to {disfmarker} The red lines on the , um , graph are the um , relations between the differentum , classes . Like , a user has like , a query , and then , also has , you know um , reference slots to its preferences , um , the special needs and , you know , money , and the user interest . And so this is more or lesssimilar to the flat Bayes - net that I have , you know , with the input nodes and all that . And {disfmarker} So I tried to construct the dependency models , and a lot of these stuff I got from the flat Bayes - net , andwhat they depend on , and it turns out , you know , the CPT 's are really big , if I do that , so I tried to see how I can do , um {disfmarker} put in the computational nodes in between . And what that would look like in aPRM . And so I ended up making several classes {disfmarker} Actually , you know , a class of {disfmarker} with different attributes that are the intermediate nodes , and one of them is like , time affordability moneyaffordability , site availability , and the travel compatibility . And so some of these classes are {disfmarker} s some of these attributes only depend on stuff from , say , the user , or s f just from , I don't know , like thesite . S like , um , these here , it 's only like , user , but , if you look at travel compatibility for each of these factors , you need to look at a pair of , you know , what the um , preference of the user is versus , you know ,what type of an event it is , or you know , which form of transportation the user has and whether , you know , the onsite parking matters to the user , in that case . And that makes the scenario a little different in a PRM, because , um , then you have one - user objects and potentially you can have many different sites in {disfmarker} in mind . And so for each of the site you 'll come up with this rating , of travel compatibility . And ,they all depend on the same users , but different sites , and that makes a {disfmarker} I 'm tr I w I wa have been trying to see whether the PRM would make it more efficient if we do inferencing like that . And so , Iguess you end up having fewer number of nodes than in a flat Bayes - net , cuz otherwise you would {disfmarker} c well , it 's probably the same . But um , No , you would definitely have {disfmarker} be able to re -use , like , {vocalsound} um , all the user stuff , and not {disfmarker} not having to recompute a lot of the stuff , because it 's all from the user side . So if you changed sites , you {disfmarker} you can , you know ,save some work on that . But , you know , in the case where , it depends on both the user and the site , then I 'm still having a hard time trying to see how um , using the PRM will help . Um , so anyhow , using thoseintermediate nodes then , this {disfmarker} this would be the class that represent the intermediate nodes . And that would {disfmarker} basically it 's just another class in the model , with , you know , references to theuser and the site and the time . And then , after you group them together this {disfmarker} no the dependencies would {disfmarker} of the queries would be reduced to this . And so , you know , it 's easier to specifythe CPT and all . Um , so I think that 's about as far as I 've gone on the PRM stuff .Professor F: WellGrad D: Right .Professor F: No . So y you didn't yet tell us what the output is .Grad D: The output .Professor F: Sowhat decisions does this make ?Grad D: OK . So it only makes two decisions , in this model . And one is basically how desirable a site is meaning , um , how good it matches the needs of a user . And the other is themode of the visit , whether th It 's the EVA decision . Um , so , instead of um , {vocalsound} doing a lot of , you know , computation about , you know , which one site it wants of {disfmarker} the user wants to visit , I'll come {disfmarker} well , try to come up with like , sort of a list of sites . And for each site , you know , where {disfmarker} h how {disfmarker} how well it fits , and basically a rating of how well it fits and what to dowith it . So . Anything else I missed ?Professor F: So that was pretty quick . She 's ac uh uh Eva 's got a little write - up on it that uh , probably gives the {disfmarker} the details to anybody who needs them . Um , sothe {disfmarker} You {disfmarker} you didn't look at all yet to see if there 's anybody has a implementation .Grad D: No , not yet , um {disfmarker}Professor F: OK . So one {disfmarker} so one of the questions , youknow , about these P R Ms isGrad D: Mm - hmm .Professor F: uh , we aren't gonna build our own interpreter , so if {disfmarker} if we can't find one , then we uh , go off and do something else and wait until s oneappears . Uh , so one of the things that Eva 's gonna do over the next few weeks is see if we can track that down . Uh , the people at Stanford write papers as if they had one , but , um , we 'll see . So w Anyway . Sothat 's a {disfmarker} a major open issue . If there is an interpreter , it looks like you know , what Eva 's got should run and we should be able to actually um , try to solve , you know , the problems , to actually takethe data , and do it . Uh , and we 'll see . Uh , I actually think it is cleaner , and the ability to instantiate , you know , instance of people and sites and stuff , um , will help in the expression . Whether the inference getsany faster or not I don't know . Uh , it wouldn't surprise me if it {disfmarker} if it doesn't .Grad D: Mm - hmm .Professor F: You know , it 's the same kind of information . I think there are things that you can expressthis way which you can't express in a normal belief - net , uh , without going to some incredible hacking of {disfmarker} sort of rebuilding it on the fly . I mean , the notion of instantiating your el elements from theontology and stuff fits this very nicely and doesn't fit very well into the extended belief - net . So that was one of the main reasons for doing it . Um . I don't know . So , uh , people who have thought about the problem ,like Robert i it looked to me like if {comment} Eva were able to come up with a {vocalsound} you know , value for each of a number of uh , sites plus its EVA thing , that a travel planner should be able to take it fromthere . And {disfmarker} you know , with some other information about how much time the person has and whatever , and then plan a route .Grad B: Um - hmm , um , {vocalsound} well , first of all uh , uh , greatlooks , mu much cleaner , nnn , nnn , Certain {disfmarker} certain beauty in it , so , um , if beauty is truth , then , uh we 're in good shape . But , the um , as , uh , mentioned before we probably should look at t thedetails . So if you have a write - up then uh , I 'd love to read itGrad D: Mm - hmm .Grad B: and uh {disfmarker} because , um , i Can you go all the way back to the {disfmarker} the very top ?Grad D: Yeah .Grad B:Um , {vocalsound} uh these {disfmarker} @ @ {comment} these {disfmarker} w w when these are instantiated they take on the same values ? that we had before ?Grad D: I can't really see the whole thing .Grad B:or are they {disfmarker} have they changed , in a sense ?Grad D: Well I think I basically leave them to similar things .Grad B: Uh - huh .Grad D: Some of the things might {disfmarker} that might be different , maybelike {disfmarker} are that the hours for the site .Grad B: Hmm .Grad D: And , eventually I meant that to mean whether they 're open at this hour or not .Grad B: Uh - huh .Grad D: And status would be , you know ,more or less like , whether they 're under construction , and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} or stuff like that .Grad B: And the , uh , other question I would have is that presumably , from the way the Stanford peopletalk about it , you can put the probabilities also on the relations . If {disfmarker}Grad D: Which is the structural uncertainty ?Professor F: Yeah . Yeah , I {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} That I think was actually inthe previous {disfmarker} the Ubenth stuff . I don't remember whether they carried that over to this or not ,Grad A: Mmm .Professor F: uh , structural uncertainty .Grad B: It 's sort of in the definition or {disfmarker}in the {disfmarker} in Daphne 's definition of a PRM is that classes and relations ,Professor F: OK .Grad B: and you 're gonna have CPT 's over the classes and their relations .Professor F: Alright .Grad B: Moreuncertainty , or {disfmarker} or {disfmarker}Professor F: Uh ,Grad B: I should say .Grad D: I remember them learning when , you know , you don't know the structure for sure ,Professor F: Yeah .Grad D: but I don'tremember reading how you specifyGrad B: Yeah , that would be exactly my question .Professor F: Right .Grad D: wh to start with . Yeah .Grad B: Well {disfmarker}Grad D: Yeah .Professor F: Yeah . So , uh , the{disfmarker} the plan is {disfmarker} is when Daphne gets back , we 'll get in touch and supposedly , um , we 'll actually get s deep {disfmarker} seriously connected to {disfmarker} to their work andGrad B: Yep.Professor F: somebody 'll {disfmarker} Uh , you know {disfmarker} If it 's a group meeting once a week probably someone 'll go down and , whatever . So , we 'll actually figure all this out .Grad B: OK . OK . Then Ithink the w {vocalsound} long term perspective is {disfmarker} is pretty clear . We get rocking and rolling on this again , once we get a package , if , when , and how , then this becomes foregroundedGrad D: Mm -hmm .Grad B: profiled , focused , again .Grad E: Designated ?Grad A: Of course .Grad B: And um , until then we 'll come up with a something that 's {disfmarker} @ @ {comment} that 's way more complicated for you. Right ?Grad D: OK .Grad B: Because this was laughingly easy , right ?Grad D: Actually I had to take out a lot of the complicated stuff , cuz I {disfmarker} I made it really complicated in the beginning , and Jerry waslike , {vocalsound} \" this is just too much \" .Professor F: Yeah . So , um , you could , from this , go on and say suppose there 's a group of people traveling together and you wanted to plan something that somehow ,with some Pareto optimal uh , {vocalsound} uh , thing for {disfmarker}Grad A: That 's good . That 's definitely a job for artificial intelligence .Professor F: uh , or {disfmarker}Grad A: Except for humans can't reallysolve it either , so .Grad B: Well that 's not {disfmarker} not even something humans {disfmarker} yeah .Professor F: Right . Right . Well that 's the {disfmarker} that would {disfmarker} that would be a {disfmarker}uh , you could sell it , as a {disfmarker}Grad A: Yeah .Professor F: OK , eh you don't have to fight about this , just give your preferences to the {disfmarker}Grad A: And then you can blame the computer .Professor F:w Exactly .Grad A: So .Grad B: Hmm . But what does it {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} Would a pote potential result be to {disfmarker} to split up and never talk to each other again ? You know .Grad A: That should beone of them .Grad B: Yeah .Professor F: Yeah . Right .Grad E: That 'd be nice .Grad A: Mmm .Professor F: Anyway . So . So there i there are some {disfmarker} some u uh , you know , uh , elaborations of this that youcould try to put in to this structure , but I don't think it 's worth it now . Because we 're gonna see what {disfmarker} what else uh {disfmarker} what else we 're gonna do . Anyway . But uh , it 's good , yeah and{disfmarker} and there were a couple other ideas of {disfmarker} of uh , things for Eva to look at in {disfmarker} in the interim .Grad B: Good . Then , we can move on and see what Andreas has got out his sleeve . OrAndy , for that matter ?Grad C: OK . So uh , uh , well , thanks for having me here , first of all . Um , so maybe just a {disfmarker} a little background on {disfmarker} on my visit . So , uh , I 'm not really involved inany project , that 's uh {disfmarker} that 's relevant to you uh , a at the moment , uh , the {disfmarker} the reason is really for me uh , to have an opportunity to talk to some other researchers in the field . And{disfmarker} and so I 'll just n sort of give you a real quick introduction to what I 'm working on , and um , I just hope that you have some comments or , maybe you 're interested in it to find out more , and{disfmarker} and so I 'll be uh , happy to talk to you and {disfmarker} and uh , I 'd also like to find out some more and {disfmarker} and maybe I 'll just walk around the office and and then {disfmarker} and ask some{disfmarker} some questions , uh , in a couple days . So I 'll be here for uh , tomorrow and then uh , the remainder of uh , next week . OK , so , um , what I started looking at , uh , to begin with is just uh , contentmanagement systems uh , i i in general . So um , uh what 's uh {disfmarker} Sort of the state of the art there is to um {disfmarker} uh you have a bunch of {disfmarker} of uh documents or learning units or learningobjects , um , and you store meta - data uh , associate to them . So there 's some international standards like the I - triple - E , uh {disfmarker} There 's an I - triple - E , LON standard , and um , these fields are prettystraightforward , you have uh author information , you have uh , size information , format information and so on . Uh , but they 're two uh fields that are um , more interesting . One is uh you store keywords associatedwith the uh {disfmarker} with the document , and one is uh , you have sort of a , um , well , what is the document about ? So it 's some sort of taxonomic uh , ordering of {disfmarker} of the {disfmarker} of the units .Now , if you sort of put on your semantic glasses , uh you say , well that 's not all that easy , because there 's an implicit um , uh , assumption behind that is that uh , all the users of this system share the sameinterpretation of the keyword and the same interpretation of uh , whichever taxonomy is used , and uh , I think that 's a {disfmarker} that 's a very {disfmarker} that 's a key point of these systems and they sort ofalways brush over this real quickly without really elaborating much of that and uh {disfmarker} As a matter of fact , the only thing that m apparently really works out so far are library ordering codes , which are very ,very coarse grain , so you have some like , science , biology , and then {disfmarker} But that 's really all that we have at the moment . So I think there 's a huge , um , uh need for improvement there . Now , what thisuh {disfmarker} a standard like this would give us is we could um , sort of uh with a search engine just query uh , different repositories all over the world . But we can't really {disfmarker} Um , so what I 'm{disfmarker} what I try to do is um , to have um , uh {disfmarker} So . So the scenario is the following , you you 're working on some sort of project and you encounter a certain problem . Now , what {disfmarker}what we have at our university quite a bit is that uh , students um , try to u program a certain assignment , for example , they always run into the same problems , uh , and they always come running to us , and they 'llsay why 's it not {disfmarker} it 's not working , and we always give out the same answer , so we thought , well , it 'd be nice to have a system that could sort of take care of this , and so , what I want to build isbasically a {disfmarker} a smart F A Q system . Now , what you uh need to do here is you need to provide some context information which is more elaborate than \" I 'm looking for this and this and this keyword . \" So .And I think that I don't need to tell you this . I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm sure you have the same {disfmarker} when {disfmarker} when somebody utters a sentence in a certain , uh , context it , and {disfmarker} and thesame sentence in another context makes a huge difference . So , I want to be able to model information like , um , so in the {disfmarker} in the context of {disfmarker} in the context of developing distributed systems, of a at a computer science school , um , what kind of software is the person using , which homework assignment is he or she working on at the moment , um , maybe what 's the background of that student 's um ,"}
{"doc_id":"doc_186","qid":"","text":"Lynne Neagle AM: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee. We've received apologies for absence from Michelle Brown and Jack Sargeant; there are no substitutions.Can I ask if Members have any declarations of interest, please? No. Okay. We'll move on, then, to item 2, which is our scrutiny of the 'Healthy Weight: Healthy Wales' draft strategy, and I'm very pleased to welcome DrFrank Atherton, the Chief Medical Officer for Wales, and Nathan Cook, who is the head of the healthy and active branch at Welsh Government. Thank you, both, for attending this morning. We're very much lookingforward to hearing what you've got to say. If you're happy, we'll go straight into questions. If I can just start by asking about the fact that 'Healthy Weight: Healthy Wales' is an all-age strategy, really, and howconfident you are that it will deliver for children and young people.Dr Frank Atherton: Well, we're very confident. I mean, it has to, quite clearly. We do need to think about the present generation, the problems faced bythe current generation. We have high prevalence of overweight and obesity among adults—we know that, and we can't walk away from that because that's translating into demand on health services. But we have totake a focus, a future generation's focus, almost, on the next generation. I don't write off the current generation, we can't afford to do that, but we do need to think about what can we do that would be different for thenext generation so that they don't get into the sorts of problems that we're currently seeing with overweight and obesity. We know that the consequences of that for our young people are going to be enormous if wedon't do something and something quite soon. We know that overweight children go on to become overweight adults, unfortunately, and that brings all the consequences of multiple disease issues—diabetes is oftencited—cancer risk et cetera. So, we have to focus on children, and, in fact, during the consultation, we've been very clear that we need to engage with children and young people as well. Perhaps we'll get into that atsome point, Chair, but, yes, I can give you that assurance.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. What my follow-up question, really, is: can you just tell us what kind of engagement you've had with children and youngpeople to inform the draft strategy?Dr Frank Atherton: Well, Nathan may be able to influence some of the detail, but in broad terms, we have discussed with young people in a number of fora. In fact, I was delightedthat we had a young person, Evie Morgan, a schoolgirl from mid Wales, who came to the joint launch on the consultation. She met the Minister there and gave a very good personal account of her views on obesity andoverweight. We've been visiting a number of schools during the consultation process. I'm visiting a school, either this week or next week, at Treorchy, to talk with teachers and young people there. Obviously, we'rehopeful that schools and young people will contribute to the consultation as well. So, we've had quite good input, I would say, from children and young people. There is always more we can do we and we want to hearthose voices.Nathan Cook: I was going to say, we've also had a session with youth ambassadors as well, and what we've actually produced for the consultation is not just the children and young people's version, butalso a toolkit in terms of getting schools really engaged and involved in terms of the work that we want them to do to feed into this as well. So, we've already had some really good responses from a lot of youth groupand schools already.Lynne Neagle AM: And you've got a structured programme, have you, to roll that out? Okay. Thank you. We've got some questions now on leadership, and the first questions are from SiânGwenllian.Sian Gwenllian AM: Good morning. I'll be speaking in Welsh. The Minister for health said yesterday, in answering a question from me on the Chamber floor, that you gave him advice not to have a target interms of reducing obesity among children. Could you confirm that that's what your advice was and tell us why you don't think that a target is needed?Dr Frank Atherton: My advice was not that we don't need atarget—we may well need a target, and that's one of the issues we need to consult on—but that the target that had been adopted in England and in Scotland to halve the prevalence of obesity in children was moreaspirational than deliverable, and that if we are to choose a target in Wales, then we need to balance deliverability with challenge. We need a challenging environment. So, there is something about performancemanagement, because I would be looking to not just the health system but the health and care system and to public services boards to think about how they're delivering on this, and I think we can use targets to that.But they are one tool in the box that I would think we could use, and part of the consultation is to ask that question—'If we are to go down a route in Wales of choosing a target, what might that look like?'Sian GwenllianAM: Okay. So, to be clear, you're not ruling out that maybe we would need a target.Dr Frank Atherton: It's certainly something that we could consider in terms of the final strategy.Sian Gwenllian AM: And is that youropinion too?Nathan Cook: Yes.Sian Gwenllian AM: Okay. Well, that is contrary to what I was told yesterday on the floor of the Chamber by the Minister, but there we go. I'm glad to hear that you're not ruling out havinga target, because without a target, without something to aim for, how do we know that we're getting there?Dr Frank Atherton: I think your point about evaluation is really important. Whatever we produce at the end ofthis process—and we're looking to produce a final strategy towards the autumn—we do need to have a strong evaluation. So, some metrics in there, it would seem, would be appropriate, but what those are, what thenature of those are, do we frame them as targets or ambitions—that's the point we need to consult on.Sian Gwenllian AM: Okay. And the other point, of course, is the investment. If the Government is going to besuccessful in terms of the aim of reducing childhood obesity, then it needs to fund and support the actions. Have you made an assessment of the level of investment needed to implement this plan?Dr Frank Atherton:Resourcing will be important. We currently do make investments in a number of areas that relate to child health generally, and, of course, obesity and overweight in particular. So, the question of resourcing isimportant. Now, we can't quantify an absolute amount of resource that will be needed to deliver until we know exactly what's going to come out of the consultation and what actions we might want to deliver to a greaterdegree in Wales. A figure of £8 million to £10 million a year has been banded around as a broad kind of area of what we might need to invest, but that would need to be drawn from existing programmes. We need tolook at existing programmes, how effective they are. Can we make them more effective? Can we get better value from them? And there may well be a case for new investment, and that's a question, of course, thatwould need to be discussed with Ministers when we're producing the final strategy.Nathan Cook: But I think a key consideration as well is we already know there is investment across health boards in some kind ofobesity-related services. So, I think what we really need to think about across Wales is how we can drive greater scale, how we can look at current programmes in terms of making sure that they're better evaluated,and how we can make sure that we're also drawing up on the existing resources and capacity out there as well.Sian Gwenllian AM: And does the level of investment depend on what the target is—what the goal is?DrFrank Atherton: I don't think you can necessarily just link the two. The issue of resourcing is one that's there irrespective of whether we choose to put a target in place.Sian Gwenllian AM: But how would we know thatit's being used effectively if there isn't something to aim for?Dr Frank Atherton: Which brings you back to the question about evaluation. We need proper evaluation of the various programmes that we have.SianGwenllian AM: Yes, but without a target, how can you properly evaluate? If you don't know what you're trying to do, how can you properly evaluate? Anyway, you're open to suggestions about having a target, which isgreat. Would you agree that Government could use the revenue that's being produced through the levy on soft drinks towards some of these efforts to—?Dr Frank Atherton: Well, of course, there are someconsequentials that are coming to the Welsh Government as part of the levy on sugary soft drinks. That funding, of course, is less than we had anticipated, and that reflects, actually, a success story because industry isreformulating, and so the amount of sugar in soft drinks is already starting to decrease, which is a good thing. But to your question: should we use the funding? Well, of course we should use funding. I'm not personallyin favour of hypothecation, I think I'm more interested in the totality of resource that goes into public health programmes than into marginal resource. There are, of course, a number of initiatives that we currently fundthrough the general revenue. And when I think about obesity, I don't just think about the relatively small marginal amounts of money that come in through whatever source, but I think about the totality of the £7 billionwe spend in health and social care and how we can divert and channel some of that towards broad prevention initiatives in general, and towards tackling being overweight and obesity in particular.Sian Gwenllian AM:You're saying that it's less than expected. Could you give us any kind of figure?Dr Frank Atherton: I'm sorry, could you repeat the question?Sian Gwenllian AM: You say that there is less money that's come in throughthese consequentials from the levy, can you mention some sort of figure?Dr Frank Atherton: The figure that I have in mind is about £56 million that's coming in in terms of revenue over a two-year period. But I'd haveto confirm that with the committee. What the anticipated—. When the sugar levy was first brought in, there was some modelling at UK level about what level of revenue that would bring, but it was based on the amountof sugar that was currently then in drinks and the fact that the sugar has reduced in drinks, I mean, the total amount available to the UK is less and hence our consequentials are less. Nathan may have some precisefigures.Nathan Cook: Yes, I was going to say, there was a mid-year report done where the levy has raised £150 million to date since coming into force in April, and the original forecast was £520 million a year. So, Ithink that shows the amount of work that's been done by industry around reformulation.Sian Gwenllian AM: And the consequentials of that? That is the consequential—£150 million.Nathan Cook: On a UK level.SianGwenllian AM: Yes, so what's the Welsh consequential?Lynne Neagle AM: Fifty-six.Sian Gwenllian AM: Fifty-six? Gosh, that sounds a lot. Anyway, it's a good sum of money and you're talking about investing £8 million to£10 million. So, obviously, you know, we can be more ambitious because there is money in that pot if that money was ring-fenced for this particular scheme.Dr Frank Atherton: Well, the resource is going to be a realissue that we need to address, and I think as Nathan has said, there is funding of various initiatives currently in the system, and we need to look at that and make that as effective as possible. Will there be a need forsome additional resource? There may well be, and that's a question that we'll have to look at in terms of the strategy when we develop it and have a discussion with Ministers about the level of resourcing.Lynne NeagleAM: Can I just ask on that before Siân moves on? What assessment have you made of how that money is being spent in other UK nations? Because my understanding is that the money is being used in other UK nationsto directly impact on obesity. Have you given any consideration to—? As I understand it, that money now is being dispersed around a plethora of programmes, including the transformation programme, and what I foundvery odd, really, was vaccination, which is surely the core business of the NHS. Have you got any view on that?Dr Frank Atherton: I'm not sure I understand your point, Chair, in terms of the link between theconsequentials from—. Are you talking about the consequentials from the sugar levy or are you talking about—?Lynne Neagle AM: Yes, because in other nations, it is being used to directly impact on initiatives to tackleobesity, whereas, we've kind of put it here in Wales into the general pot and it's being used to fund a plethora of different things.Dr Frank Atherton: Well, that cuts to what I was talking about. My preference—it's apersonal view—is that hypothecation doesn't really help us too much. I mean, what we need to look at is whether the programmes, the sorts of programmes that are being funded in England, or indeed in Scotland, areworking effectively, and if they are, are they being delivered here in Wales? We have looked very carefully at the plans that England and Scotland have for tackling obesity and overweight, and we've made a comparisonwith what we're doing in Wales, and our ambition in Wales is to go further than those nations, in many ways. But I come back to the point that just linking the hypothecation of a relatively small amount of resource islikely to be less impactful than asking a question of public services boards and of the health system, indeed, about how much money, overall, are we putting into prevention.Lynne Neagle AM: No, I recognise that, and Ithink we're talking about additional resource. Suzy.Suzy Davies AM: I was just wondering whether you thought that there was a useful psychological link on the part of the public between saying, 'Here's a sugar levy',and 'It's going to be used to help children and adults stay healthier.' Going into a pot, it actually makes it quite difficult to explain the purpose of the tax in the first place. So, I take your overall point, but in terms of thepeople who we're trying to help in all this, actually creating a direct link might be quite helpful.Dr Frank Atherton: You may be right. I'm not a behavioural psychologist. We'd have to ask—Suzy Davies AM: Neither am I.I'm a person who eats a lot of sugar. [Laughter.]Dr Frank Atherton: Your point's taken.Suzy Davies AM: Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Thanks. Siân.Sian Gwenllian AM: The last question from me, about partnershipworking. You're putting an emphasis on the whole-system approach in implementing the plan, how are you going to create a system that co-ordinates action and drives change across relevant partners, avoiding asituation where it's everyone's role, but nobody's responsibility? How are you going to avoid that?Dr Frank Atherton: It's a very important question, and one of the four strands in the consultation is exactly related tothat, around leadership and drive nationally. I'm not interested in producing a strategy that sits on a shelf. If you look around the world, there are plenty of obesity strategies. You may notice, by the way, that we'vechosen not to talk about an obesity strategy but a healthy weight strategy, because I think having a positive construct is really quite important to us here in Wales. But leadership will be really important, and we willneed some sort of structure to lead this, to provide oversight. I'm not a great believer in creating new structures, so we do need something that will give that drive, but the leadership comes from the top down. We needpolitical commitment to this, and that's why I welcome the input from this committee. So, that needs to be assured. And then we need to make sure that the public sector generally is engaged in this, but it goes waybeyond the public sector, of course, because we have to work with industry, and we have to work with communities, and we have to work with the public on this. So we need to think about our governance system forthis and how we drive it forward. Interestingly, we had quite a large discussion two days ago between health and social care, but also involving the third sector and some members of the public, around how can we driveprevention more generally. It wasn't specifically on obesity, but of course obesity came up because it's such a pressing issue. This question of governance was discussed quite extensively, and we do have governancesystems, of course, in Wales. We have public services boards, we have regional partnership boards, and how we can get those aligned behind this common agenda is really important. But I'd like to see—and I know I'ma public health professional, so I know that only maybe 10 per cent, 15 per cent, possibly 20 per cent of what makes and keeps us healthy as individuals and as communities can be driven through the health system;but I would like the system to step up and take these kinds of issues more seriously as well. So I'd be looking for local leadership through directors of public health and indeed through chief executives to work with theirpublic services boards on this. So, we'll need some sort of national oversight, absolutely, but we need local ownership and local leadership, too.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. We've got some questions now from JanetFinch-Saunders.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you, Chair. Delivery of the plan will be led by a national implementation board that will be accountable to Ministers. Which Minister do you believe it should beaccountable to, or, given the complexity of obesity, should the board be directly accountable to the First Minister?Dr Frank Atherton: Ultimately, the First Minister will be responsible for this and will want to have astrong oversight of this. It is often framed as a health issue, and the Minister, Vaughan Gething, has a strong personal commitment to this, I know. We've talked extensively with him and with sports and recreationcolleagues about that, so there's a link there. It does cut across all portfolios, and so this is an issue that I have discussed with Cabinet, and that collective ownership is really important, and will be, because it can't justsit in one domain. I think what you do need to have is you do need to have a lead organisation or a lead ministry, and I would see health as—I work within health, so I'm perhaps biased, but I would see health asleading this, but it needs broad ownership across Government.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: I know my colleague Siân Gwenllian mentioned earlier targets and things, but I know in Wales we're not too good at collectingdata. What data is currently available on childhood obesity and what metrics will be used to measure progress against the plan's objectives?Dr Frank Atherton: Well, of course, our main data source is the childmeasurement programme, which collects information on children entering school aged four or five. That's our main source of information. If we look at that data, it shows us—. Well, I'm sure you're familiar with thestatistics, but it'll be just under a third of children at that age who are overweight or obese—Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Could I just ask—sorry to interrupt—how up to date is that?Dr Frank Atherton: The last survey wasjust last year.Nathan Cook: The data was published last week.Dr Frank Atherton: Yes, the lastest data was out last week.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: It is pretty up to date.Dr Frank Atherton: So, it's pretty up to date,and what it shows—. It's not getting radically worse—there's always statistical variation in these things—but it's not getting any better. And, for the first time last year, we did look at the question not just of childrenwho were overweight or obese, but we actually singled out the proportion who are obese, severely obese. So we have a figure for that for the first time, which is about 12 per cent, which is quite shocking, in away.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: It is shocking.Dr Frank Atherton: So, that's our main source of information. Does that answer your question?Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Yes, but how will any gaps in your data beaddressed?Dr Frank Atherton: Well, one of the questions that are often asked is: could we measure more on a longitudinal basis? By that I mean in England, for example, children are measured at school entry and thenagain at year 11—at age 11 or 12., that kind of age group. And so you do have a longitudinal view over time of what's happening to children. I think that would be helpful to us in Wales, and it's one of the questions inthe consultation about whether we should expand that. Obviously, that would have significant resource implications, not just for the funding, but also for schools and for the system to deliver it. But it's something thatmaybe would help us in terms of better understanding and better evaluation—the point that was made earlier.Nathan Cook: And the other data we do have is the millennium cohort study, which has been released, for"}
{"doc_id":"doc_187","qid":"","text":"Professor B: OK So uh today we 're looking at a number of uh things we 're trying and uh fortunately for listeners to this uh we lost some of it 's visual but um got tables in front of us . Um what is {disfmarker} whatdoes combo mean ?PhD C: So combo is um a system where we have these features that go through a network and then this same string of features but low - pass filtered with the low - pass filter used in the MSGfeatures . And so these low - pass filtered goes through M eh {disfmarker} another MLP and then the linear output of these two MLP 's are combined just by adding the values and then there is this KLT . Um the outputis used as uh features as well .Professor B: Um so let me try to restate this and see if I have it right . There is uh {disfmarker} there is the features uh there 's the OGI features and then um those features um gothrough a contextual {disfmarker} uh l l let 's take this bottom arr one pointed to by the bottom arrow . Um those features go through a contextualized KLT . Then these features also uh get um low - pass filteredPhD C:Yeah . Yeah so yeah I could perhaps draw this on the blackboardProfessor B: Sure . Yeah . Yeah .PhD C: Yeah .PhD D: The graph , yeah another one .Professor B: Yeah , that 's good .PhD C: Professor B: SoPhD C: Sowe have these features from OGI that goes through the three paths .Professor B: Yeah . Three , OK .PhD C: The first is a KLT using several frames of the features .Professor B: Yeah . Yeah .PhD C: The second path is uhMLP also using nine frames {disfmarker} several frames of featuresProfessor B: Yeah . Uh - huh .PhD C: The third path is this low - pass filter .Professor B: Uh - huh .PhD C: Uh , MLPProfessor B: Aha ! aha !PhD C:Adding the outputs just like in the second propose the {disfmarker} the proposal from {disfmarker} for the first evaluation .Professor B: Yeah ? Yeah . Yeah .PhD C: And then the KLT and then the two together again.Professor B: No , the KLT . And those two together . That 's it .PhD D: Two HTK .Professor B: OK so that 's {disfmarker} that 's this bottom one .PhD C: Um . So this is {disfmarker} yeahProfessor B: And so uh andthen the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the one at the top {disfmarker} and I presume these things that uh are in yellow are in yellow because overall they 're the best ?PhD C: Yeah that 's the reason , yeah .ProfessorB: Oh let 's focus on them then so what 's the block diagram for the one above it ?PhD C: For the f the f first yellow line you mean ?Professor B: Yeah .PhD C: Yeah so it 's uh basically s the same except that we don'thave this uh low - pass filtering so we have only two streams .PhD D: Step .PhD C: Well . There 's {disfmarker} there 's no low {disfmarker} low - pass processing used as additional feature stream .Professor B: Mm -hmm . Mm - hmm .PhD C: UmProfessor B: Do you e um they mentioned {disfmarker} made some {disfmarker} uh when I was on the phone with Sunil they {disfmarker} they mentioned some weighting scheme thatwas used to evaluate all of these numbers .PhD C: Yeah . Uh actually the way things seems to um well it 's uh forty percent for TI - digit , sixty for all the SpeechDat - Cars , well all these languages . Ehm the well matchis forty , medium thirty five and high mismatch twenty - five . Yeah .Professor B: Um and we don't have the TI - digits part yet ?PhD C: Uh , no .Professor B: OK .PhD C: But yeah . Generally what you observe with TI -digits is that the result are very close whatever the {disfmarker} the system .Professor B: OK . And so have you put all these numbers together into a single number representing that ?PhD C: Yeah .Professor B: I meannot {disfmarker}PhD C: Uh not yet .Professor B: OK so that should be pretty easy to do and that would be good {disfmarker}PhD C: No . Mmm yeah , yeah .Professor B: then we could compare the two and say whatwas better .PhD C: Mmm . Yeah .Professor B: Um and how does this compare to the numbers {disfmarker} oh so OGI two is just the top {disfmarker} top row ?PhD D: Yeah .PhD C: So yeah to {disfmarker} actuallyOGI two is the {disfmarker} the baseline with the OGI features but this is not exactly the result that they have because they 've {disfmarker} they 're still made some changes in the featuresProfessor B: OK .PhD C:and {disfmarker} well but uh actually our results are better than their results . Um I don't know by how much because they did not send us the new resultsProfessor B: OK .PhD C: UhProfessor B: Uh OK so the one{disfmarker} one place where it looks like we 're messing things up a bit is in the highly mismatched Italian .PhD C: Yeah . Yeah .Professor B: AnPhD C: Yeah there is something funny happening here because{disfmarker} yeah .Professor B: Yeah .PhD C: But there are thirty - six and then sometimes we are {disfmarker} we are {disfmarker} we are around forty - two andProfessor B: Now upPhD C: butProfessor B: Uh soone of the ideas that you had mentioned last time was having a {disfmarker} a second um silence detection .PhD C: Yeah . So there are some results herePhD D: For the Italian .PhD C: uh so the third and the fifth lineof the tablePhD D: For this one .Professor B: So filt is what that is ?PhD C: Filt , yeahPhD D: Yeah .PhD C: Um yeah so it seems f for the {disfmarker} the well match and mismatched condition it 's uh it bringssomething . Uh but uh actually apparently there are {disfmarker} there 's no room left for any silence detector at the server side because of the delay . Uh wellProfessor B: Oh we can't do it . Oh OK .PhD C: No .PhD D:For that {disfmarker} for that we {disfmarker}Professor B: Oh .PhD C: UhProfessor B: Too bad . Good idea , but can't do it .PhD C: Yeah .Professor B: OK .PhD C: Except I don't know because they {disfmarker} I thinkthey are still working well .Professor B: Uh - huh .PhD C: Uh t two days ago they were still working on this trying to reduce the delay of the silence detector so but yeah if we had time perhaps we could try to find uhsome kind of compromise between the delay that 's on the handset and on the server side . Perhaps try to reduce the delay on the handset and {disfmarker} but well hmm For the moment they have this large delay onthe {disfmarker} the feature computation and so we don'tProfessor B: OK . So Alright so for now at least that 's not there you have some results with low - pass filter cepstrum doesn't have a huge effect but it{disfmarker} but it looks like it you know maybe could help in a couple places .PhD C: I thProfessor B: Uh little bit .PhD C: Yeah .Professor B: Um and um um Yeah and uh let 's see What else did we have in there ? Uh Iguess it makes a l um at this point this is I {disfmarker} I guess I should probably look at these others a little bit uh And you {disfmarker} you yellowed these out uh but uh uh Oh I see yeah that {disfmarker} that oneyou can't use because of the delay . Those look pretty good . Um let 's see that one Well even the {disfmarker} just the {disfmarker} the second row doesn't look that bad right ? That 's just uh yeah ?PhD C: Yep.Professor B: And {disfmarker} and that looks like an interesting one too .PhD D: Mmm yeah .Professor B: UhPhD C: Actually the {disfmarker} yeah the second line is uh pretty much like the first line in yellow exceptthat we don't have this KLT on the first {disfmarker} on the left part of the diagram . We just have the features as they are .Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD C: UmProfessor B: Yeah . Yeah so when we do this weightedmeasure we should compare the two cuz it might even come out better . And it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's a little {disfmarker} slightly simpler .PhD C: Mm - hmm . Yeah .Professor B: So {disfmarker} sothere 's {disfmarker} so I {disfmarker} I would put that one also as a {disfmarker} as a maybe . Uh and it {disfmarker} yeah and it 's actually {vocalsound} does {disfmarker} does significantly better on the uh uhhighly mismatched Italian , so s and little worse on the mis on the MM case , but uh Well yeah it 's worse than a few thingsPhD C: Mm - hmm .Professor B: so uh let 's see how that c that c c see how that comes out ontheir {disfmarker} their measure and {disfmarker} are {disfmarker} are we running this uh for TI - digits or uhPhD C: Yeah .Professor B: Now is TI di {disfmarker} is is that part of the result that they get for the uhdevelopment {disfmarker} th the results that they 're supposed to get at the end of {disfmarker} end of the month , the TI - digits are there also ?PhD C: Yeah . Yeah . It 's included , yeah .Professor B: Oh OK . OK .And see what else there is here . Um Oh I see {disfmarker} the one {disfmarker} I was looking down here at the {disfmarker} the o the row below the lower yellowed one . Uh that 's uh that 's with the reduced uh KLTsize {disfmarker} reduced dimensionality .PhD C: Mm - hmm ? Yeah . Yeah .Professor B: What happens there is it 's around the same and so you could reduce the dimension as you were saying before a bit perhaps.PhD C: Yeah , it 's {disfmarker} it 's significantly worse well but {disfmarker} Mm - hmm .Professor B: It 's significantly worse {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's uh it 's {disfmarker} it 's mostly worse .PhD C: Exc -except for the HMPhD D: For many a mismatch it 's worse .PhD C: butProfessor B: Yeah . But it is little . I mean not {disfmarker} not by a huge amount , I don't know . What are {disfmarker} what are the sizes of anyof these sets , I {disfmarker} I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm sure you told me before , but I 've forgotten . So {disfmarker} you know how many words are in uh one of these test sets ?PhD C: UhPhD D: I don't remember.Professor B: About ?PhD C: Um it 's {disfmarker} it depends {disfmarker} well {disfmarker} the well matched is generally larger than the other sets and I think it 's around two thousand or three thousand wordsperhaps , at least .PhD D: Ye But words {disfmarker} well word {disfmarker} I don't know .PhD C: Hmm ? The words , yeah . S sentences .PhD D: Sentences .PhD C: Some sets have five hundred sentences , so .PhDD: Yeah .Professor B: So the {disfmarker} so the sets {disfmarker} so the test sets are between five hundred and two thousand sentences , let 's sayPhD C: Mmm .Professor B: and each sentence on the average hasfour or five digits or is it {disfmarker} most of them longer orPhD C: Yeah .PhD D: Yeah for the Italian even seven digits y more or lessPhD C: It {disfmarker} it d Seven digits .PhD D: but sometime the sentence haveonly one digit and sometime uh like uh the number of uh credit cards , something like that .Professor B: Mm - hmm . Right , so between one and sixteen . See the {disfmarker} I mean the reason I 'm asking is{disfmarker} is {disfmarker} is we have all these small differences and I don't know how seriously to take them , right ?PhD C: Mm - hmm ?Professor B: So uh i if {disfmarker} if you had uh just you know {disfmarker}to give an example , if you had uh um if you had a thousand words then uh a {disfmarker} a tenth of a percent would just be one word ,PhD C: Yeah .Professor B: right ? So {disfmarker} so it wouldn't mean anything.PhD D: Yeah .Professor B: OhPhD C: Yeah .Professor B: um so um yeah it be kind of {disfmarker} I 'd kind of like to know what the sizes of these test sets were actually .PhD C: Yeah .PhD D: The size that we have?PhD C: We could {disfmarker} we could run {disfmarker} run some kind of significance testsProfessor B: Yeah since these {disfmarker} well also just to know the numbers ,PhD C: orPhD D: Yeah .Professor B: right .So these {disfmarker} these are word error ratesPhD C: Yeah .Professor B: so this is on how many words .PhD C: Yep .PhD D: Yeah we have the result that the output of the HTKProfessor B: Yeah .PhD D: The numberof {disfmarker} of sentences , no it 's the number isn't .PhD C: Yeah sure {disfmarker} sure . Yeah sure .Professor B: Yeah so anyway if you could just mail out what those numbers are and then {disfmarker} then{disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that be great .PhD C: Yeah .PhD D: Yeah .Professor B: Um {vocalsound} what else is there here ? Um see the second {disfmarker} second from the bottom it says SIL , but this is somedifferent kind of silence or thing or {disfmarker} what was that ?PhD C: UhPhD D: It the {disfmarker} the output silence of the MLP .PhD C: Oh yeah I see .PhD D: It 's only one small experiment to know whathappened . To apply also to in include also the {disfmarker} the silence of the MLP we have the fifty - six form and the silence to pick up the silence and we include those .Professor B: Yes . Uh - huh , uh - huh . Thesilence plus the KLT output ? Oh so you 're only using the silence .PhD C: Yeah .PhD D: Yeah , because when we apply the KLTPhD C: No they 're {disfmarker} I think there is this silence in addition to the um KLToutputsProfessor B: No .PhD D: in addition , yes .PhD C: it is because we {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we just keep uh we don't keep all the dimensions after the KLTPhD D: In addition tPhD C: and {disfmarker} yeah.PhD D: and we not s we are not sure if we pick {disfmarker} we have the silence .PhD C: So we try to add the silence also in addition to the {disfmarker} these twenty - eight dimensions .Professor B: I see . OK . Andwhat {disfmarker} and what 's OGI forty - five ? The bottom one there ?PhD C: Uh it 's o it 's OGI two , it 's {disfmarker} so the {disfmarker} th it 's the features from the first linePhD D: It 's in fact OGI two .ProfessorB: SPhD C: and {disfmarker} yeah .Professor B: Right , but I mean what 's the {disfmarker} what does the last row mean ?PhD C: So it 's uh basically this but without the KLT on the {disfmarker} from the left path.Professor B: I thought that was the one {disfmarker} I thought that was the second row . So what 's the difference between the secondPhD C: Uh the second line you don't have this combo stuff so you justProfessor B:Oh .PhD C: uhProfessor B: So this is like the second line but with {disfmarker} with the combo stuff .PhD C: Yeah . Yeah .PhD D: And with the {disfmarker} all the output of the combo .Professor B: OK . Yeah .PhD C:Yeah .PhD D: UhProfessor B: OK , so {disfmarker} alright so it looks to me {disfmarker} I guess the same {disfmarker} given that we have to take the filt ones out of the {disfmarker} the running because of this delayproblem {disfmarker} so it looks to me like the ones you said I agree are {disfmarker} are the ones to look atPhD C: Mm - hmm .Professor B: but I just would add the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the second rowonePhD C: Yeah .Professor B: and then um if we can umPhD C: Mmm .Professor B: oh yeah also when {disfmarker} when they 're using this weighting scheme of forty , thirty - five , twenty - five is that on thepercentages or on the raw errors ? I guess it 's probably on the percentages right ?PhD C: Uh {vocalsound} I guess , yeah .Professor B: Yeah OK .PhD C: I guess , yeah . Mmm .Professor B: Alright .PhD C: It 's not clearhere .Professor B: OK . Maybe {disfmarker} maybe they 'll argue about it . Um OK so if we can know what {disfmarker} how many words are in each and then um Dave uh Dave promised to get us something tomorrowwhich will be there as far as they 've gotten {vocalsound} FridayPhD C: Mm - hmm .Professor B: and then we 'll operate with thatPhD C: Yeah .Professor B: and uh how long did it I guess if we 're not doing all thesethings {disfmarker} if we 're only doing um um I guess since this is development data it 's legitimate to do more than one , right ? I mean ordinarily if {disfmarker} in final test data you don't want to do several and{disfmarker} and take the bestPhD C: Yeah . Mmm .Professor B: that 's {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} that 's not proper but if this is development data we could still look at a couple .PhD C: Yeah . We can{disfmarker} yeah . Sure . But we have to decide {disfmarker} I mean we have to fix the system on this d on this data , to choose the bestProfessor B: Yeah . I Right .PhD C: and theseProfessor B: But the question iswhen {disfmarker} when do we fix the system ,PhD C: But we couldProfessor B: do we fix the system uh tomorrow or do we fix the system on Tuesday ?PhD C: it dProfessor B: I {disfmarker} Yeah , OK except that wedo have to write it up .PhD C: I think we fixed on Tuesday , yeah . Yeah . Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .Professor B: Also , soPhD C: Yeah . Yeah .Professor B: UmPhD C: Uh yeah well . Well basically it 's this with perhapssome kind of printing and some {disfmarker} some other @ @ .Professor B: Right so maybe what we do is we {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we uh as soon as we get the data from them we start the training and soforthPhD C: Yeah but Mm - hmm .Professor B: but we start the write - up right away because as you say there {disfmarker} there 's only minor differences between these .PhD C: I think you {disfmarker} we could{disfmarker} we could start soon , yeah .Professor B: Yeah .PhD C: Write up something .Professor B: Yeah , and {disfmarker} and I {disfmarker} I would {disfmarker} you know , I would {disfmarker} I 'd kind of liketo see itPhD C: Um yeah . Mm - hmm .Professor B: maybe I can {disfmarker} I can edit it a bit uh sure . The {disfmarker} my {disfmarker} what in this si i in this situation is my forte which is English .PhD C: Yeah.Professor B: Uh soPhD C: Mmm .Professor B: uh H yeah . Have y have you seen alt d do they have a format for how they want the system descriptions or anything ?PhD C: Uh not really .Professor B: OK .PhD C: UmThere is the format of the table which is {vocalsound} quite impressive .Professor B: Yeah ? Uh I see . Yes , for those who are listening to this and not looking at it uh it 's not really that impressive , it 's just tiny . It 'sall these little categories set a , set b , set c , multi - condition , clean . Uh No mitigation . Wow . Do you know what no {disfmarker} what no mitigation means here ?PhD C: Um it should be the the problem with theerror {disfmarker} channel errorProfessor B: Oh that 's probably the {disfmarker}PhD C: orProfessor B: this is probably channel error stuffPhD C: well , you {disfmarker}Professor B: huh ? Oh this is i right , it saysright above here channel {disfmarker} channel error resilience ,PhD C: Yeah . Yeah .Professor B: yeah . So recognition performance is just the top part , actually . Uh and they have {disfmarker} yes , split betweenseen databases and non - seen so basically between development and {disfmarker} and evaluation .PhD C: Yeah .Professor B: And {vocalsound} so {disfmarker} right , it 's presumed there 's all sorts of tuning that 'sgone on on the see what they call seen databases and there won't be tuning for the uh unseen . Multi - condition {disfmarker} multi - condition . So they have {disfmarker} looks like they have uh uhPhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor B: so they splitting up between the TI - digits and everything else , I see . So the everything else is the SpeechDat - Car , that 's the multi multilingualPhD C: Yeah , so it 's not divided between languages youmean or {disfmarker}Professor B: Well , it is .PhD C: it justProfessor B: It is , but there 's also {disfmarker} there 's these tables over here for the {disfmarker} for the TI - digits and these tables over here for the cardata which is {disfmarker} which is I guess all the multilingual stuffPhD C: Oh yeah .Professor B: and then uh there 's {disfmarker} they also split up between multi - condition and clean only .PhD C: Yeah . For TI -digits .Professor B: Yes .PhD C: Yeah , actually yeah . For the TI - digits they want to train on clean and on noisyProfessor B: Yeah .PhD C: and {disfmarker} yeah .Professor B: So we 're doing that also , I guess .PhD C:Uh yeah . But uh we actually {disfmarker} do we have the features ? Yeah . For the clean TI - digits but we did not test it yet . Uh the clean training stuff .Professor B: OK .PhD C: Mmm .Professor B: Well anyway ,sounds like there 'll be a lot to do just to {vocalsound} work with our partners to fill out the tables {vocalsound} over the next uh next few daysPhD C: Mm - hmm .PhD D: Yes .Professor B: I guess they have to send itout {disfmarker} let 's see the thirty - first is uh uh Wednesday and I think the {disfmarker} it has to be there by some hour uh European time on WednesdayPhD C: Hmm - hmm .Professor B: so {vocalsound} I thinkbasicallyPhD D: We lost time uh Wednesday maybe because {vocalsound} that the difference in the time may be {disfmarker} is a long different of the time .Professor B: E excuse me ?PhD D: Maybe the Thursday thetwelfth of the night of the Thurs - thirty - one is {disfmarker} is not valid in Europe .PhD C: Yeah .PhD D: We don't know is happening .Professor B: Yes , so I mean {disfmarker} I think we have to actually get it doneTuesdayPhD D: Tuesday .Professor B: right because I {disfmarker} I thinkPhD C: Yeah , well .Professor B: uh UhPhD C: Except if {disfmarker} if it 's the thirty - one at midnight or I don't know {disfmarker} we can{vocalsound} still do some work on Wednesday morning .Professor B: yeah well . W i is but is {disfmarker} is it midni I thought it was actually something like five PM on {disfmarker}PhD C: Yeah , well . Yeah .PhD D:"}
{"doc_id":"doc_188","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Okay . Uh good afternoon . This is our third meeting already .Marketing: Good afternoon .Project Manager: I hope you enjoyed your lunch . {vocalsound} I did anyway . {vocalsound} Um let's see .Presentation three . Okay this is um the second phase uh we're going to discuss today . It's the conceptual design meeting . And a few points of interest in this meeting um are the conceptual specification ofcomponents . Uh conceptual specification of design . And also trend-watching . Um these are hopefully the points you addressed in uh your pre uh presentations you're going to show me in a few minutes . Um but firstI'll show you the agenda . Uh first the opening . Then we have three presentations . Uh after that we have to come to a decision on remote control concepts . How we're going to make it . And then we're closing . Wehave about forty minutes . Uh so I suggest let's get started . Uh did someone encounter any problems during the preparation ? No ?User Interface: No .Project Manager: Everything fine ?Marketing: {gap}ProjectManager: That's nice . Then a little uh thing about the last meeting . Uh these are the points um we agreed on . The requirements and the target market . Uh requirements are uh teletext , docking station , audio signal, small screen , with some extras that uh button information . And we are going to use default materials . Um does somebody have any comments on these requirements ? Maybe ? No ? These are just the the things wethought of , so maybe if you figured something else or thought of something else , just let me know . And maybe we can uh work it out . And we're going to target uh sixty to to eighty year old customers . So noweverybody knows what we're do we're doing , um I suggest let's get started with the presentations . So shall we keep the same uh line-up as uh last time ?Marketing: Sure .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: I'll startoff then .Project Manager: Good luck . {vocalsound}Marketing: Doh . 'Kay I'm uh gonna inform you about the trend-watching I've done over the past few days . Um we've done some market research . We distributedsome more enquetes , questionnaires . And um besides that um I deployed some trend-watchers to Milan and Paris to well get all of the newest trends . And I've consulted some additional trend-watch trend-watchers ,after the original trend-watchers return , about what the the best design would be . Um okay these are some overall findings . Um most important thing is the fancy design . Um the research indicated that that was byfar the most important factor . Um innovativeness was about half as important as the fancy design . By innovativeness this means um functions which are not featured in other remote controls . Um about half of , halfas important as the innovativeness was the was easy to use . Um for our um group , we're focusing on the people of sixty to eighty y years old , this is um , these factors are slightly more equal . 'Kay these are somemore group specific findings . Uh the older people prefer dark colours . Uh they like recognisable shapes , and familiar material . And our surveys have indicated that especially wood is pretty much the material for olderpeople . Um this is , this image will give you a little bit of an impression about um the look-and-feel that um the remote should have . Um this leads us to some personal preferences . Uh the remote control and thedocking station should uh blend in in the in the room . Um so this would mean no uh eye-catching designs . Just keep it simple and {disfmarker} Well the docking station and small screen would be our main points ofinterest , because this would be the {disfmarker} These would uh be the innovativeness in the remote control . So this would be very important that we {vocalsound} at least include these features . Um well thetrend-watchers I consulted advised that it b should be , the remote control and the docking station should be telephone-shaped . So you could imagine that uh the remote control will be standing up straight in thedocking station . This is not really {disfmarker} This is pretty much a new shape to uh older people . So they would prefer uh a design where the remote control just lies flat in the docking station . So it would be kindamore telephone-shaped . Um besides that we would advise um to bring two editions , one with a wood-like colour and maybe feel , and one with a grey-black colour . The wood-like for the more uh exclusive people .People with more money . Uh the grey-black colour for well people with less means . That would be all .Project Manager: Okay . Thank you . Any questions about the the trends ?Marketing: Any questions ?ProjectManager: MaybUser Interface: Mm no .Project Manager: No ? Okay , we go on to the next one .User Interface: {gap}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Um {vocalsound} 'kay um yeah . {gap} uh some uhresearch uh a about um designing of an interface . Um the uh last meeting uh we had a about um uh using a f few buttons . So uh um uh that's w what I what I want to uh uh to do in uh our design . So um finding anattractive uh way to control uh the remote control . Um the uh {disfmarker} I found some uh something about uh speech uh recognition . So maybe uh we can uh use uh that . Um {disfmarker} Uh and uh using a littleuh display . So um findings . Um yeah just um we have just to focus on the primary um functions . So uh only uh buttons uh for uh sound , um for uh on-off , um uh shifting u up uh sa uh ca channel or uh down shiftingdown . Um uh let's see . Um yeah and {disfmarker} Uh {gap} we uh need some uh new a attractive functions uh uh which attract uh uh people for using it . So uh it's uh like a speak uh speech uh recognition and um aspecial button for selecting uh subtitles . Just uh what we uh mentioned uh last uh meeting . Um and yeah overall um user-friendly . So uh using uh large large buttons . Um {disfmarker} It's uh possible to uh uh tomake um quite cheap uh system for uh speech uh recognition . Um you can think about um uh when you lost your um remote control , you can uh call it and um it gives an um sig signal . So uh uh yeah . And and uh foruh shifting up a sen uh c ch channel or uh for um uh putting out uh sound or something , you can uh just give a sign uh say um sound off or {disfmarker} A and uh yeah . Television uh put the sound off uh put thesound off uh . Um {disfmarker} Let's see . Uh yeah . I was thinking about the special uh button for uh subtitles , um just one button to keep it uh simple . Uh one push on the button uh you get uh uh small uh subtitles .Um double push push um , if double click , um so uh you get uh big uh subtitles , for uh people uh um uh which c f uh who can't uh read small uh subtitles . So uh {disfmarker} Um {disfmarker} Yeah and w we have tokeep uh in general buttons uh so um we've got um the buttons we have to use . The on-off , sound on-off , sound higher or lower , um the numbers , uh zero to uh uh nine . Um the general buttons m more general bone button for shifting up and shifting down uh channel . Um also we want to uh use a little d display uh for um for displaying the uh the functions of the buttons . And um we can uh build in a function f which uh showsthe channel or some uh which the t television is on . So um made a little uh picture of uh it . Um {disfmarker} See . Um yeah . Just um we can put uh the on-off button uh over in this uh corner , um almost uh e all uhremote controls uh are using a on-off button on that place . Um so uh people uh will uh recognise uh um the button .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: So um {disfmarker} D display uh of it , it's uh justa small display . Uh um you can put it uh on top . Um it's uh most uh uh place where people uh , most of {gap} looks at . So uh um and a special uh button for shifting up uh and uh shifting down uh channel , um it's uhon place where um the thumb of of the {disfmarker} So you you can uh easily uh shift up or shift down . Um it's uh quite uh handy place . So um and uh all the f functions for subtitle uh one button , uh for sound uh{disfmarker} Uh and uh for our design , um uh we have to discuss about it uh I think uh so uh the form of it so {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: And that's it .Project Manager: Uh thank you .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay . About the components design . Um for the energy source we can use a basic battery or , a as an optional thing , a kinetic energy , like in a watch , which you just shake and itproduces energy . But if we choose for that option , the docking station would c become obsolete . So I don't think it's really an option . Uh for the casing , uh the uh manufacturing department can deliver uh a flatcasing , single or double curved casing . It's really up the the design that we're gonna use . It's uh doesn't uh imply any technical restrictions . Uh as a case supplement , we could um , I thought of that l later , uh arubber uh belt , like a anti-slip . Uh for the b buttons , we can use plastic or rubber . And the chip-set , um it says simple here , but it should be advanced , because we're using an L_C_D_ uh screen . And as uh thetrend-watcher presentation showed , um people like wood , but it raises the price and it doesn't really fit the image , unless we would start two product lines . Form should follow function overall . Um well the kineticenergy source is rather fancy . But depends on what we want . I think we should disc discuss that . Um for the case , uh the supplement and the buttons , it really depends on the designer . And the chip-set uh reallyshould be advanced because otherwise uh it would really be a simple uh remote control . And that's it .Project Manager: Okay . Thank you . So that brings us to the discussion about our concepts . Mm .Marketing:{vocalsound}Project Manager: 'Kay . So these are the points we have to discuss . Um first I think we can talk about the energy source , since that's um has a pretty big influence on production price , uh and image.User Interface: {gap}Project Manager: Uh so uh f I think first of all we have to see uh it is possible to introduce kinetic energy in our budget , I think .Industrial Designer: Yes w there there are four options . We coulduse the basic normal battery .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Uh a hand dynamo .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay {gap} . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: But I don't think that's {vocalsound} reallyan option .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: You don't wanna swing before you can watch television .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah .Industrial Designer: Uh solar cells .But not every room is very lightUser Interface: Mm .Industrial Designer: so it's not a very good option .Project Manager: No .Industrial Designer: Or the kinetic energy .Project Manager: Yeah . Okay .Marketing: Andhow exactly does the kinetic energy work ?Industrial Designer: Well y you basically shake your remote , and then it powers up .Marketing: You just {disfmarker} You use it and it works .User Interface:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Nah .Marketing: Okay . Well personally I don't think that older people like to shake their remote control before they use it .User Interface:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah . That's true .Marketing: And besides that you mentioned it would make the docking station obsolete .Industrial Designer: Oh .Marketing: And I think our dockingstation could be one of the marketing issues with which we can um get great popularity for our product .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: ButMarketing: Um welUser Interface: what's the function ? Yeah f forloading up uh the batteries {gap} .Marketing: Yeah you could load up the batteries ,User Interface: B bMarketing: you could um insert the find the lost remote control function in there .User Interface: Okay but uh itwon't use uh much e energy uh I I believe . Uh it's uh just a small display so I believe uh it will run on one battery for um six months or f or or more . So I believe one battery uh is just enough .Project Manager: Uh{disfmarker}User Interface: Uh so {disfmarker}Project Manager: Uh well I think uh elderly people just like to have everything in place .Marketing: That's true . {vocalsound}Project Manager: And I don't think they theylike uh remotes just laying everywhere in their rooms .User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: So maybe a docking station will help them give the remote a place .User Interface: Yeah . That's true . Yeah .ProjectManager: And also what you said . Um you can introduce voice recognition by uh finding back your remote .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: But I think it's um more efficient and cheaper to put it in thedocking station .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: So you have a but button on your docking station which you can push , and then it starts beeping .User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: And then we can wecan still use the voice recognition , but maybe then for only the the channels .User Interface: Yeah . Uh .Project Manager: That's safe .Marketing: I'm wondering um what will the voice recognition mean for theproduction price ?Project Manager: Yeah . That's a good point .Industrial Designer: Mm I don't have any information on pricing . So I'll have to ask the manufacturing department .User Interface: Mm .Marketing: 'Causein our earlier um market research , if you'd allow me to go to the flat board , SMARTboard .Project Manager: Yeah , sure . Go ahead .Marketing: Um so it was open here . Um we also um asked if w they would , if peoplewould pay more for speech recognition in a remote control . Well you can see here , our target group would not do that .Project Manager: No .Marketing: So if that would increase the price for which we're selling ourremote controlUser Interface: Mm .Marketing: I would greatly advise not to do it .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: {gap}Marketing: I think that would be better to uh insert in our other product , that is meant fortheProject Manager: Yeah .Marketing: younger people .User Interface: 'Kay .Industrial Designer: But that would also go for the L_C_D_ screen then I guess . It's a bit higher percentage , but {disfmarker}Marketing:Um well this is Yeah but this is here the question was , would you prefer it . So that doesn't really mean they wouldn't pay extra for it . And on top of that the L_C_D_ screen would um help in making the remote controleasier to use .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Okay .Marketing: And I think a voice recognition function would not make the remote control much easier to use .Project Manager: Easierto use ? No , I think that's a good point .User Interface: But uh is uh our uh research um about um bi large uh L_C_D_ sh uh display , or uh just a small one uh we want to uh use ?Marketing: Um well this was for like anL_C_D_ screen like you would have on a on the the most advanced mobile phones .User Interface: Okay .Marketing: So pretty large .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: I personally think theL_C_D_ screen we wanna use , with the extra information , I think nobody has anything against it . Because it's just uh some extra information ,User Interface: No .Project Manager: and it's easy to ignore as well . So ifyou don't wanna use it you just don't use it .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: And um yeah I think the um {disfmarker} Maybe we have to uh discard the voice recognition . Because it will increase cost uh signifiuh significantly . And I don't think the {disfmarker} I don't think it will be a lot easier to use , as well .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: So that brings us back to the energy . If we don't have the voice recognition, it will it won't use a lot of energy to use . Um {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: So in that case we could use kinetic uh energy , but I think just a simple battery which you can reload on adocking station is just as good . And much cheaper as well .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: And that's the best choice .Project Manager: Okay let me just choose for thebattery . That brings us to the chip .Industrial Designer: Well there isn't any choice there because we're using the the the the display .Project Manager: Just the advanced .Industrial Designer: So it's gotta be advanced.Project Manager: OkayMarketing: 'Kay .Project Manager: {gap} , advanced chip . And then we get to the point of the case . Um which brings us a little bit back to marketing as well . Uh if we wanna choose for wood orthe black and grey . Or both ? Um as we saw there is not {disfmarker} Yeah wood is a lot more expensive to produce .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Um but I think it will attract elderly people who wanna havesomething exclusive , which they can show off to their grandkids .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Look I've got a new remote control , and uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh Idunno .Marketing: Well {disfmarker} {vocalsound} And I think most important factor there is the wooden colour . So it wouldn't actually have to be wood ,Project Manager: Yeah . That's right .Marketing: if it's justUserInterface: Mm .Marketing: wood-coloured .Project Manager: But with colour was a lot more expensive ? Or ?Industrial Designer: Mm I dunno .Project Manager: You don't know ?Industrial Designer: I'll have to uhresearch .Project Manager: I think so because {disfmarker} Yeah .Marketing: Probably .Project Manager: It's a lot more difficult to to handle and to to get in the right shape .User Interface: Mm . Uh is it possible uh tomake um changeable uh case . So um uh you 'cause uh {disfmarker} Yeah with uh mobile phones uh uh so uh like the Nokia mobile phones , uh when you can change the case of it .Project Manager: Yeah .UserInterface: SoProject Manager: Change the cases . Yeah .User Interface: maybe it's possible uh possibility . So um um you have just to make one um standard um remote control , and um yeah you can sell uh few uh{disfmarker}Project Manager: You can sell the cases .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah . I think that's a very good option . Because um then you can advertise as well with the {disfmarker} Give yourgrandfather a new case for his remote control , or whatever . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Because that's a {disfmarker} it'ssomething extra , it's something other remotes don't have ,User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: which we can get a great advantage point .Marketing: Yeah that is true .Project Manager: So and then you can makethem with colour . Black and grey , other colours as well .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah . We would have to look carefully into the design though .Project Manager: Costs .Marketing: 'Cause we would have tomake one w uh control which would fit in with a wooden cover and a plastic cover . The more original one , or the more standard one .Project Manager: Yeah . Yeah . SoMarketing: So that would {disfmarker}ProjectManager: you suggest we should design two different telephones on which you can apply , yeah {vocalsound} remote controls , on which you can apply different case covers , for example .Marketing: Well I wouldn'tdesign a telephoneIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: but {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Well no I think w we should just , we should then just design one umProjectManager: Remote .Marketing: one remote , but it would have to be fancy with either the wood cover or the plastic one .Project Manager: Yeah . Okay .Marketing: So , but that shouldn't be too much of a problem.Project Manager: So everybody's okay with the changing covers ? I think that's a good uh good option .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yes .Project Manager: Changing case covers .Marketing: Um I heardour Industrial Designer talk about uh flat , single and double curved .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yes .Marketing: Could you explain that a little more ?Industrial Designer: Well the the general like mostolder remotes are flat , just straight .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: And uh our d manufacturing department can also deliver single curved or double curved ca curved cases .Marketing: And what wouldsingle curved and double curved mean ?Industrial Designer: Um it would just only affect the form , for as far as I know . So it's j really just up to the design department what we're gonna use . It doesn't really matterfor the price or the functionality .Marketing: Okay . So we can pretty much just do whatever we want .Industrial Designer: Pick one you like , yes .Project Manager: Mm . Okay .Marketing: 'Kay . That's good .ProjectManager: Uh but the form has to be um {disfmarker} It has to {disfmarker} It's has to be possible to stand up ? Or just only to lie down ?Marketing: No just to lie down .User Interface: {gap} okay .Project Manager:"}
{"doc_id":"doc_189","qid":"","text":"PhD A: OK , we 're going .PhD D: Damn .Professor C: And uh Hans - uh , Hans - Guenter will be here , um , I think by next {disfmarker} next Tuesday or so .PhD B: Oh , OK .PhD D: Mm - hmm .Professor C: So he 's{disfmarker} he 's going to be here for about three weeks ,PhD B: Oh ! That 's nice .PhD A: Just for a visit ?Professor C: and , uh {disfmarker} Uh , we 'll see .PhD A: Huh .Professor C: We might {disfmarker} mightend up with some longer collaboration or something .PhD A: Cool .Professor C: So he 's gonna look in on everything we 're doingPhD D: Mm - hmm .Professor C: and give us his {disfmarker} his thoughts . And so it 'llbe another {disfmarker} another good person looking at things .PhD B: Oh . Hmm .Grad E: Th - that 's his spectral subtraction group ?Professor C: Yeah ,Grad E: Is that right ?Professor C: yeah .Grad E: Oh , OK . So Iguess I should probably talk to him a bit too ?Professor C: Oh , yeah . Yeah . Yeah . No , he 'll be around for three weeks . He 's , uh , um , very , very , easygoing , easy to talk to , and , uh , very interested ineverything .PhD A: Really nice guy .Professor C: Yeah , yeah .PhD B: Yeah , we met him in Amsterdam .Professor C: Yeah , yeah , he 's been here before .PhD B: Oh , OK .Professor C: I mean , he 's {disfmarker} he 's{disfmarker} he 's {disfmarker} he 's {disfmarker}PhD A: Wh - Back when I was a grad student he was here for a , uh , uh {disfmarker} a year or {comment} n six months .PhD B: I haven't noticed him .Professor C:N nine months .PhD A: Something like that .Professor C: Something like that .PhD A: Yeah .Professor C: Yeah . Yeah . He 's {disfmarker} he 's done a couple stays here .PhD B: Hmm .Professor C: Yeah .PhD A: So , um, {vocalsound} {comment} I guess we got lots to catch up on . And we haven't met for a couple of weeks . We didn't meet last week , Morgan . Um , I went around and talked to everybody , and it seemed like they{disfmarker} they had some new results but rather than them coming up and telling me I figured we should just wait a week and they can tell both {disfmarker} you know , all of us . So , um , why don't we{disfmarker} why don't we start with you , Dave , and then , um , we can go on .Grad E: Oh , OK .PhD A: So .Grad E: So , um , since we 're looking at putting this , um {disfmarker} mean log m magnitude spectralsubtraction , um , into the SmartKom system , I I did a test seeing if , um , it would work using past only {comment} and plus the present to calculate the mean . So , I did a test , um , {vocalsound} where I usedtwelve seconds from the past and the present frame to , um , calculate the mean . And {disfmarker}PhD A: Twelve seconds {disfmarker} Twelve {disfmarker} twelve seconds back from the current {pause} frame , isthat what you mean ?Grad E: Uh {disfmarker} Twelve seconds , um , counting back from the end of the current frame ,PhD A: OK , OK .Grad E: yeah . So it was , um , twen I think it was twenty - one frames and thatworked out to about twelve seconds .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Grad E: And compared to , um , do using a twelve second centered window , I think there was a drop in performance but it was just a slight drop .PhD A: Hmm!Professor C: Mm - hmm .Grad E: Is {disfmarker} is that right ?Professor C: Um , yeah , I mean , it was pretty {disfmarker} it was pretty tiny . Yeah .Grad E: Uh - huh . So that was encouraging . And , um , that{disfmarker} that {disfmarker} um , that 's encouraging for {disfmarker} for the idea of using it in an interactive system like And , um , another issue I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm thinking about is in the SmartKom system .So say twe twelve seconds in the earlier test seemed like a good length of time , but what happens if you have less than twelve seconds ? And , um {disfmarker} So I w bef before , um {disfmarker} Back in May , I didsome experiments using , say , two seconds , or four seconds , or six seconds . In those I trained the models using mean subtraction with the means calculated over two seconds , or four seconds , or six seconds . And ,um , here , I was curious , what if I trained the models using twelve seconds but I f I gave it a situation where the test set I was {disfmarker} subtracted using two seconds , or four seconds , or six seconds . And , um{disfmarker} So I did that for about three different conditions . And , um {disfmarker} I mean , I th I think it was , um , four se I think {disfmarker} I think it was , um , something like four seconds and , um , sixseconds , and eight seconds . Something like that . And it seems like it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it hurts compared to if you actually train the models {comment} using th that same length of time but it{disfmarker} it doesn't hurt that much . Um , u usually less than point five percent , although I think I did see one where it was a point eight percent or so rise in word error rate . But this is , um , w where , um , evenif I train on the , uh , model , and mean subtracted it with the same length of time as in the test , it {disfmarker} the word error rate is around , um , ten percent or nine percent . So it doesn't seem like that big a d adifference .Professor C: But it {disfmarker} but looking at it the other way , isn't it {disfmarker} what you 're saying that it didn't help you to have the longer time for training , if you were going to have a short time for{disfmarker}Grad E: That {disfmarker} that 's true . Um ,Professor C: I mean , why would you do it , if you knew that you were going to have short windows in testing .Grad E: WaPhD A: Yeah , it seems like for your{disfmarker} I mean , in normal situations you would never get twelve seconds of speech , right ? I 'm not {disfmarker} e uPhD B: You need twelve seconds in the past to estimate , right ? Or l or you 're looking at sixsec {disfmarker} seconds in future and six in {disfmarker}Professor C: Yeah .Grad E: Um , t twelve sProfessor C: No , total .Grad E: N n uh {disfmarker} For the test it 's just twelve seconds in the past .PhD B: No , it's all {disfmarker} Oh , OK .PhD A: Is this twelve seconds of {disfmarker} uh , regardless of speech or silence ? Or twelve seconds of speech ?Grad E: Of {disfmarker} of speech .PhD A: OK .PhD B: Mm - hmm.Professor C: The other thing , um , which maybe relates a little bit to something else we 've talked about in terms of windowing and so on is , that , um , I wonder if you trained with twelve seconds , and then when youwere two seconds in you used two seconds , and when you were four seconds in , you used four seconds , and when you were six {disfmarker} and you basically build up to the twelve seconds . So that if you have verylong utterances you have the best ,Grad E: Yeah .Professor C: but if you have shorter utterances you use what you can .Grad E: Right . And that 's actually what we 're planning to do inProfessor C: OK . Yeah .Grad E:But {disfmarker} s so I g So I guess the que the question I was trying to get at with those experiments is , \" does it matter what models you use ? Does it matter how much time y you use to calculate the mean whenyou were , um , tra doing the training data ? \"Professor C: Right . But I mean the other thing is that that 's {disfmarker} I mean , the other way of looking at this , going back to , uh , mean cepstral subtraction versusRASTA kind of things , is that you could look at mean cepstral subtraction , especially the way you 're doing it , uh , as being a kind of filter . And so , the other thing is just to design a filter . You know , basically you 're{disfmarker} you 're {disfmarker} you 're doing a high - pass filter or a band - pass filter of some sort and {disfmarker} and just design a filter . And then , you know , a filter will have a certain behavior and you loocan look at the start up behavior when you start up with nothing .Grad E: Mm - hmm .Professor C: And {disfmarker} and , you know , it will , uh , if you have an IIR filter for instance , it will , um , uh , not behave inthe steady - state way that you would like it to behave until you get a long enough period , but , um , uh , by just constraining yourself to have your filter be only a subtraction of the mean , you 're kind of , you know ,tying your hands behind your back because there 's {disfmarker} filters have all sorts of be temporal and spectral behaviors .Grad E: Mm - hmm .Professor C: And the only thing , you know , consistent that we knowabout is that you want to get rid of the very low frequency component .Grad E: Hmm .PhD B: But do you really want to calculate the mean ? And you neglect all the silence regions {comment} or you just use everythingthat 's twelve seconds , and {disfmarker}Grad E: Um , you {disfmarker} do you mean in my tests so far ?PhD B: Ye - yeah .Grad E: Most of the silence has been cut out .PhD B: OK .Grad E: Just {disfmarker} There 'sjust inter - word silences .PhD B: Mm - hmm . And they are , like , pretty short . ShorGrad E: Pretty short .PhD B: Yeah , OK .Grad E: Yeah .PhD B: Yeah . Mm - hmm . So you really need a lot of speech to estimate themean of it .Grad E: Well , if I only use six seconds , it still works pretty well .PhD B: Yeah . Yeah . Uh - huh .Grad E: I saw in my test before . I was trying twelve seconds cuz that was the best {pause} in my testbeforePhD B: OK .Grad E: and that increasing past twelve seconds didn't seem to help .PhD B: Hmm . Huh .Grad E: th um , yeah , I guess it 's something I need to play with more to decide how to set that up for theSmartKom system . Like , may maybe if I trained on six seconds it would work better when I only had two seconds or four seconds , and {disfmarker}Professor C: Yeah . Yeah . And , um {disfmarker}Grad E: OK.Professor C: Yeah , and again , if you take this filtering perspective and if you essentially have it build up over time . I mean , if you computed means over two and then over four , and over six , essentially what you 'regetting at is a kind of , uh , ramp up of a filter anyway . And so you may {disfmarker} may just want to think of it as a filter . But , uh , if you do that , then , um , in practice somebody using the SmartKom system ,one would think {comment} {disfmarker} if they 're using it for a while , it means that their first utterance , instead of , you know , getting , uh , a forty percent error rate reduction , they 'll get a {disfmarker} uh ,over what , uh , you 'd get without this , uh , um , policy , uh , you get thirty percent . And then the second utterance that you give , they get the full {disfmarker} you know , uh , full benefit of it if it 's this ongoingthing .PhD A: Oh , so you {disfmarker} you cache the utterances ? That 's how you get your , uh {disfmarker}Professor C: Well , I 'm saying in practice , yeah ,Grad E: MPhD A: Ah . OK .Professor C: that 's{disfmarker} If somebody 's using a system to ask for directions or something ,PhD A: OK .Professor C: you know , they 'll say something first . And {disfmarker} and to begin with if it doesn't get them quite right , mam maybe they 'll come back and say , \" excuse me ? \"PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor C: uh , or some {disfmarker} I mean it should have some policy like that anyway .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor C: And {disfmarker}and , uh , uh , in any event they might ask a second question . And it 's not like what he 's doing doesn't , uh , improve things . It does improve things , just not as much as he would like . And so , uh , there 's a higherprobability of it making an error , uh , in the first utterance .PhD A: What would be really cool is if you could have {disfmarker} uh , this probably {disfmarker} users would never like this {disfmarker} but if you had{disfmarker} could have a system where , {vocalsound} before they began to use it they had to introduce themselves , verbally .Professor C: Mm - hmm .PhD A: You know . \" Hi , my name is so - and - so ,Professor C:Yeah .PhD A: I 'm from blah - blah - blah . \" And you could use that initial speech to do all these adaptations and {disfmarker}Professor C: Right .Grad E: Mm - hmm .Professor C: Oh , the other thing I guess which{disfmarker} which , uh , I don't know much about {disfmarker} as much as I should about the rest of the system but {disfmarker} but , um , couldn't you , uh , if you {disfmarker} if you sort of did a first pass I don'tknow what kind of , uh , uh , capability we have at the moment for {disfmarker} for doing second passes on {disfmarker} on , uh , uh , some kind of little {disfmarker} small lattice , or a graph , or confusion network ,or something . But if you did first pass with , um , the {disfmarker} with {disfmarker} either without the mean sub subtraction or with a {disfmarker} a very short time one , and then , um , once you , uh , actually hadthe whole utterance in , if you did , um , the , uh , uh , longer time version then , based on everything that you had , um , and then at that point only used it to distinguish between , you know , top N , um , possibleutterances or something , you {disfmarker} you might {disfmarker} it might not take very much time . I mean , I know in the large vocabulary stu uh , uh , systems , people were evaluating on in the past , somepeople really pushed everything in to make it in one pass but other people didn't and had multiple passes . And , um , the argument , um , against multiple passes was u u has often been \" but we want to this to be ryou know {disfmarker} have a nice interactive response \" . And the counterargument to that which , say , uh , BBN I think had , {comment} was \" yeah , but our second responses are {disfmarker} second , uh , passesand third passes are really , really fast \" .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor C: So , um , if {disfmarker} if your second pass takes a millisecond who cares ? Um .Grad E: S so , um , the {disfmarker} the idea of the secondpass would be waiting till you have more recorded speech ? Or {disfmarker} ?Professor C: Yeah , so if it turned out to be a problem , that you didn't have enough speech because you need a longer {disfmarker} longerwindow to do this processing , then , uh , one tactic is {disfmarker} you know , looking at the larger system and not just at the front - end stuff {comment} {disfmarker} is to take in , um , the speech with somesimpler mechanism or shorter time mechanism ,Grad E: Mm - hmm .Professor C: um , do the best you can , and come up with some al possible alternates of what might have been said . And , uh , either in the form ofan N - best list or in the form of a lattice , or {disfmarker} or confusion network , or whatever .Grad E: Mm - hmm .Professor C: And then the decoding of that is much , much faster or can be much , much faster if itisn't a big bushy network . And you can decode that now with speech that you 've actually processed using this longer time , uh , subtraction .Grad E: Mmm .Professor C: So I mean , it 's {disfmarker} it 's common thatpeople do this sort of thing where they do more things that are more complex or require looking over more time , whatever , in some kind of second pass .Grad E: Mm - hmm . OK .Professor C: um , and again , if thesecond pass is really , really fast {disfmarker} Uh , another one I 've heard of is {disfmarker} is in {disfmarker} in connected digit stuff , um , going back and l and through backtrace and finding regions that areconsidered to be a d a digit , but , uh , which have very low energy .Grad E: Mm - hmm . OK .Professor C: So , uh {disfmarker} I mean , there 's lots of things you can do in second passes , at all sorts of levels . Anyway, I 'm throwing too many things out . But .PhD A: So is that , uh {disfmarker} that it ?Grad E: I guess that 's it .PhD A: OK , uh , do you wanna go , Sunil ?PhD B: Yep . Um , so , the last two weeks was , like{disfmarker} So I 've been working on that Wiener filtering . And , uh , found that , uh , s single {disfmarker} like , I just do a s normal Wiener filtering , like the standard method of Wiener filtering . And that doesn'tactually give me any improvement over like {disfmarker} I mean , uh , b it actually improves over the baseline but it 's not like {disfmarker} it doesn't meet something like fifty percent or something . So , I 've beenplaying with the vPhD A: Improves over the base line MFCC system ? Yeah .PhD B: Yeah . Yeah . Yeah . So , um {disfmarker} So that 's {disfmarker} The improvement is somewhere around , like , thirty percent overthe baseline .Professor C: Is that using {disfmarker} in combination with something else ?PhD B: No , just {disfmarker} just one stage Wiener filterProfessor C: With {disfmarker} with a {disfmarker}PhD B: which is astandard Wiener filter .Professor C: No , no , but I mean in combination with our on - line normalization or with the LDA ?PhD B: Yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah . So I just plug in the Wiener filtering .Professor C: Oh , OK.PhD B: I mean , in the s in our system , where {disfmarker}PhD A: Oh , OK .PhD B: So , I di i diProfessor C: So , does it g does that mean it gets worse ? Or {disfmarker} ?PhD B: No . It actually improves over thebaseline of not having a Wiener filter in the whole system . Like I have an LDA f LDA plus on - line normalization , and then I plug in the Wiener filter in that ,Professor C: Yeah ?PhD B: so it improves over not having theWiener filter . So it improves but it {disfmarker} it doesn't take it like be beyond like thirty percent over the baseline . So {disfmarker}Professor C: But that 's what I 'm confused about , cuz I think {disfmarker} Ithought that our system was more like forty percent without the Wiener filtering .PhD B: No , it 's like , uh ,PhD D: Mmm .PhD A: Is this with the v new VAD ?PhD B: well , these are not {disfmarker} No , it 's the oldVAD . So my baseline was , {vocalsound} uh , {vocalsound} nine {disfmarker} This is like {disfmarker} w the baseline is ninety - five point six eight , and eighty - nine , and {disfmarker}Professor C: So I mean , if youcan do all these in word errors it 's a lot {disfmarker} a lot easier actually .PhD B: What was that ? Sorry ?Professor C: If you do all these in word error rates it 's a lot easier , right ?PhD B: Oh , OK , OK , OK . Errors ,right , I don't have .Professor C: OK , cuz then you can figure out the percentages .PhD B: It 's all accuracies .Professor C: Yeah .PhD D: The baseline is something similar to a w I mean , the t the {disfmarker} thebaseline that you are talking about is the MFCC baseline , right ?PhD B: The t yeah , there are two baselines .PhD D: Or {disfmarker} ?PhD B: OK . So the baseline {disfmarker} One baseline is MFCC baseline that{disfmarker} When I said thirty percent improvement it 's like MFCC baseline .PhD D: Mm - hmm .Professor C: So {disfmarker} so {disfmarker} so what 's it start on ? The MFCC baseline is {disfmarker} is what ? Is atwhat level ?PhD B: It 's the {disfmarker} it 's just the mel frequency and that 's it .Professor C: No , what 's {disfmarker} what 's the number ?PhD B: Uh , so I I don't have that number here . OK , OK , OK , I have ithere . Uh , it 's the VAD plus the baseline actually . I 'm talking about the {disfmarker} the MFCC plus I do a frame dropping on it . So that 's like {disfmarker} the word error rate is like four point three . Like{disfmarker} Ten point seven .Professor C: Four point three . What 's ten point seven ?PhD B: It 's a medium misma OK , sorry . There 's a well ma well matched , medium mismatched , and a high matched .ProfessorC: Ah .PhD B: So I don't have the {disfmarker} like the {disfmarker}Professor C: Yeah .PhD B: So {disfmarker}Professor C: OK , four point three , ten point seven ,PhD B: And forty forty .Professor C: and{disfmarker}PhD B: Forty percent is the high mismatch .Professor C: OK .PhD B: And that becomes like four point three {disfmarker}Professor C: Not changed .PhD B: Yeah , it 's like ten point one . Still the same . Andthe high mismatch is like eighteen point five .Professor C: Eighteen point five .PhD B: Five .Professor C: And what were you just describing ?PhD B: Oh , the one is {disfmarker} this one is just the baseline plus the , uh, Wiener filter plugged into it .Professor C: But where 's the , uh , on - line normalization and so on ?PhD B: Oh , OK . So {disfmarker} Sorry . So , with the {disfmarker} with the on - line normalization , theperformance was , um , ten {disfmarker} OK , so it 's like four point three . Uh , and again , that 's the ba the ten point , uh , four and twenty point one . That was with on - line normalization and LDA . So the h wellmatched has like literally not changed by adding on - line or LDA on it . But the {disfmarker} I mean , even the medium mismatch is pretty much the same . And the high mismatch was improved by twenty percentabsolute .Professor C: OK , and what kind of number {disfmarker} an and what are we talking about here ?PhD B: It 's the It - it 's Italian .Professor C: Is this TI - digitsPhD B: I 'm talking about Italian ,Professor C: or{disfmarker} Italian ?PhD B: yeah .Professor C: And what did {disfmarker} So , what was the , um , uh , corresponding number , say , for , um , uh , the Alcatel system for instance ?PhD B: Mmm . Professor C: Do youknow ?PhD D: Yeah , so it looks to be , um {disfmarker}PhD B: You have it ?PhD D: Yep , it 's three point four , uh , eight point , uh , seven , and , uh , thirteen point seven .PhD B: Yep .Professor C: OK .PhD B: So"}
{"doc_id":"doc_190","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Um we are {disfmarker} So the meeting will have about the same format as the last time . So {gap} switching over I've just left uh my first two screens {gap} .User Interface: Mm-hmm .ProjectManager: Um {vocalsound} mailed you the minutes of the last meeting uh just to save time .User Interface: Okay . Cool .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um and is there any questions you have that arised from lastmeeting that are particularly bothering you ? NUser Interface: Mm um . No , I don't think so .Project Manager: No ? Okay , cool .Industrial Designer: No .Project Manager: Then we shall start with a presentation fromRaj .Marketing: Yeah . {vocalsound} Hi , me Raj , again . Uh in this meeting I I'm going to discuss about the trend watching , uh how these trends is going to affect our market potential and how important is this . Sowe have to look on this . First of all methodology . The met methodology to find out the trend was incl uh was done in a way {disfmarker} {vocalsound} We have done a rec not only a recent remote control marketsurvey , but we also considered the latest fre fashion trends of the market , because we think that this is also a factor which will affect our sales and profit . So what are our findings ? In our {vocalsound} uh in ourfindings we have seen that {disfmarker} when we did our remote control market survey we found that uh people l uh people do have preference for tho fancy mobi uh f remote controls which look and feel very good ,rather than having a functional look and feel uh good . So this sh this clearly indicates their preference for the design their outlook of the remote controls . So we should take into uh we should consider this factor as themost important factor , because this factor is twice as important , the second factor which is further ti twice the as important as the sec as uh the third factor . So this factor becomes the most important factor in oursurv uh uh in our mark uh means in take {disfmarker} in designing our rem uh remote controls .User Interface: The last one is the most important one , is it ?Marketing: No the first one is theUser Interface: Oh , sorry.Marketing: uh the outlook of the mobile , the it should have a fancy outlook ,Project Manager: {gap}User Interface: Okay .Marketing: the fancy design uh rather than just having a functional look and feel good , itshould have a fancy look and foo feel good .User Interface: Okay .Marketing: The second most important aspect is that remote control should be a technologically uh innovative . We must have some technologicaladvancement in the remote control tha rather than just putting it as it is as the other remo uh remote controls are . So it uh should be technologically innovative like glow-in-the-dark or speech recognition , somethinglike that .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: So that indicates our technological advancement . And the third most important aspect in the ta to take into consideration is that it should be easy to use ,UserInterface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: like it shouldn't be too much co complicated ,User Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: there shouldn't be too many buttons on this mobi uh remote control , it shouldn't be too complicateduh like this way . And it should be uh {disfmarker} and customers should be provided with manuals that is easy to understand in their local language , something . So that they could know how to use these remotecontrols . When we did uh f fashions uh , recent fashion uh {disfmarker} our recent fashion update shows that {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} Sorry .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Ah yeah ?{vocalsound}User Interface: I was just reading fruit and vegetables .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Hard to know how we are going to incorporate that . {vocalsound}Marketing: Y yeah uh yeah , wehave to , because uh d you can see how people have related their clothes , shoes , {gap} and everything with fruits and vegetables ,Project Manager: {gap}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: because the g worldis now changing it's trend towards organic , becoming more and more organic ,User Interface: Okay . Yeah .Industrial Designer: We should make a big sponge lemon ,Marketing: becoming {disfmarker}{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and then it'd be it would be yellow .Marketing: Yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: It's {disfmarker}Marketing: So{disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: Th that's very good .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah . So something like that we we should do .User Interface: Glow-in-the-dark . Okay .Marketing: And people uhthe f feel of the material is expected to be spongy rather than just having a plastic look , hard look .Industrial Designer: Mm . {vocalsound}User Interface: Well , that's good .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah . Yeah .UserInterface: That's what we kind of predicted anyway .Marketing: So so that they could play with it while handi uh while handling it . So that should also be taken into consideration .User Interface: Okay . Okay.Marketing: So these are my views .User Interface: Okay .Marketing: So {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay , the spongy , not real spongy , you can {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing: No it ca {vocalsound} y a{gap} {disfmarker}User Interface: Do you think like rubber would be good or does it really want to be like gel kind of stuff ?Marketing: The rubber which is good for health and which is quite disposable that we can takeinto coUser Interface: Okay . Quite disposable .Marketing: Yeah . 'Cause we It shouldn't be have any harm to the environment also ,User Interface: Okay .Marketing: because our company is very well {gap} for takingall these concerns into consideration ,Project Manager: Alright , okay .User Interface: Oh okay .Marketing: so we don't want to have any harm to the society ,User Interface: Uh-huh . Okay .Marketing: so{disfmarker}Project Manager: Fashion .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Mm 'kay .User Interface: Cool .Marketing: So that's all . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Fruit and veg , well there yougo .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Just what I think of when I think of a remote control . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: Mm .Industrial Designer: {gap}User Interface: A remote control ?Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound} {gap}User Interface: And were there any factors that weren't important in the survey , that they said we don't want ?Marketing: S uh we didn't find out any such point .User Interface:Or was it just {disfmarker} Okay . {vocalsound}Marketing: Uh yes , there could be , but we couldn't find out any , so {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm-mm-mm-mm .User Interface: Cool .Project Manager:Mm-mm-mm-mm-mm .User Interface: F_ , what is it ? Um .Project Manager: Function F_ eight .User Interface: {gap} yeah .Project Manager: Hmm .User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: {gap}Marketing: Yeah .{gap}Project Manager: {gap}Marketing: Oh no , {vocalsound} {gap} .User Interface: No signal . Is that {gap} ?Industrial Designer: No , it's got it's got it .Marketing: Yeah , uh yeah , uh yeah .Industrial Designer:{gap}Marketing: {gap} Yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Excuse me .User Interface: Okay , and then F_ five , right ?Project Manager: Uh , yeah {gap} .User Interface: Okay . Um okay , so theinterface concept um . Yeah . The interface specification , what people {disfmarker} um how they interact with it basically , I think . Um so the method , we looked at existing designs , what are the {disfmarker} what'sgood about them , what's bad about them , um I looked at their flaws , so we're going to look at their flaws , everything . Um and what {vocalsound} the survey told us and what we think would be good , so a bit ofimagination .Project Manager: Mm 'kay .User Interface: {vocalsound} Uh the findings , I've got some pictures to show you as well .Project Manager: {vocalsound} {gap} either . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: Hmm .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound} Okay , so most remote controls use graphical interface , where you um have got s buttons and you point it rather than having theoutput as a a stream of text or something .Project Manager: Uh okay .User Interface: Um and we also found that there's inconsistent layout , which makes it confusing . So I think for our remote control {disfmarker}There is some inconsistency already in {disfmarker} ec existing in {disfmarker} between remote controls , but I think standard kind of um shape and uh play and those kind of but buttons like the the top right for onand off or something ,Project Manager: Right , okay . Yeah .User Interface: I think , people find that important,'cause then it's easy to use .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: And we've got some pictures ofsome uh new remote controls to show you .Project Manager: Excellent .User Interface: Do I press Escape F_ five ? Or just {disfmarker}Project Manager: Uh no just escape should uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Escape, okay . Um , oh I still haven't got my glasses on . Yeah , okay . So these are the {disfmarker} some of the pictures of existing ones .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Wow .User Interface: I'll justwalk you through them . This one is a voice recognition .Project Manager: 'Kay .User Interface: And that's the kind of idea we're going for .Project Manager: Looks pretty complicated .User Interface: There's um anL_C_D_ thing , which we thought could {disfmarker} I thought could get a bit confusing and a bit expensive as well for us .Project Manager: Right , okay .User Interface: This one is {disfmarker} got a kind of scroll likea mouse ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm , like the middle button .User Interface: which {disfmarker} Yeah .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Um and {disfmarker} But I'm not exactly sure how you'd use that,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Ah it's kinda like scrolling {disfmarker}User Interface: like would the computer come {disfmarker}Project Manager: uh right , well , if I s if I'm thinking of the rightone , I've got the same thing in front of my monitor , you scroll it and the when you reach the sort of um {vocalsound} menu item that you require , you press the middle of the scroll .User Interface: Uh-huh , that's likethe L_C_D_ one ,Project Manager: Right , okay .User Interface: is it ? But the one below that has got like {vocalsound} a little scroll function on the side . But I presume that the functions must come up on the T_V_screen .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah , presumably .User Interface: I think that's what that is . So these are just a few ideas . Again that's just quite boring shape , grey , looks quite space-agey, but too many buttons , I think on that one .Industrial Designer: Uh it looks threatening .Project Manager: Yeah , looks like uh looks like something out of a jet . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah , it does look kind ofdangerous .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} It looks like yeah {gap} .Marketing: Hmm .User Interface: Um this one I thought was really cool . It's w it's got the programmability function that we talked about.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: You can put it in there , it's for your kids , and it's quite an organic shape and the little circle around there is pretty cool .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Andthat's really easy to use , bright , so I like this one lot for our design . I think something like that would be good .Industrial Designer: Wow .Project Manager: Yeah , I m I mean the one thing I think about about theseones is um these kl uh secured areas um {vocalsound} , I've seen a lot of them with the the cover missing .User Interface: Of course yellow . {vocalsound}Project Manager: So like have it hinge rather than sort of clipon or whatever .User Interface: Right , yeah . Yeah , that's true . Yeah . Um so maybe that could be built into one of the things and it comes up on the T_V_ or something . And this one , the over-sized one , I don'tknow about you , but I think it's a bit too gimmicky .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: I don't think that will sell very well .Project Manager: I mean is that not sortof to assist the blind or something , is it ? {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} I guess so . I don't know .Industrial Designer: Then d blind don't watch T_V_ . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Strange .{vocalsound}User Interface: I think that's a bit {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Yeah exactly .Project Manager: No they do , they do .Industrial Designer: They do ? {vocalsound}Project Manager: They listen to it . Yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah . And um this one {vocalsound} is just pointing out . I like {vocalsound} some of these things um the the raised symbols and everything , but {gap} pointing out um that this onethe volume it is kind of pressing down , but it would actually go up , because of the shape .Project Manager: Right , okay .User Interface: So that could {disfmarker} that's a bit confusing . Um but the buttons on this Ithink are {disfmarker} it's just showing you how you can have different different um buttons . They don't have to be all the same . So that's quite cool . Um .Project Manager: 'Kay but people tend to recognise certainshapes to do certain things anyway , don't they ?User Interface: Yeah , exactly . Um F_ five . Yes . So there are some of the findings . So we need to combine those ones umIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}UserInterface: and I've just got {vocalsound} an e-mail from our technical department saying that they have broken through with some new speech recognition software that you can program in .Project Manager: Brilliant .That's handy . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: Um yeah it is , just in time , very handy . Um so {vocalsound} I think maybe incorporating that in our design would be good .Project Manager: Okay .UserInterface: It's {disfmarker} you program it like you say , record , um and then , play , and then , record , play machine , and stuff like that , so that's {disfmarker} And it's much {disfmarker} Yeah . So that's quite cool. Uh personal preferences just some imagination , the raised symbols I thought were good , the L_C_D_ , it does look smart , but I think maybe for our budget , do you think that would be a bit too expensive to havethe {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: The L_C_D_User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: and the other stuff uh , I think .User Interface: And the speech recognition , 'cause I think we're definitely goingfor the speech recognition ,Marketing: But in our market survey we have seen that people are willing to pay more ,User Interface: are we ?Marketing: but they want the quality , they want f fancy look , they want somenew design , something new .User Interface: Uh-huh .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Uh yeah .User Interface: Uh-huh . But our budget , we've {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's still it's still got to get within ourtwelve fifty , you know .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: So even if we increase our cost little bit , within uh some limits , and we give something new technological advancement as well as new designwith fancy outlook , I think we will meet the requirements and we will be able to have a good sales in the market .User Interface: Uh-huh . Okay .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: I'm not sure if the {disfmarker}if {vocalsound} for twenty five Euros uh per uh twelve Euros fifty m manufacturing cost , {gap} .Industrial Designer: Ben banaProject Manager: Yeah . I can't see tha Although , th I mean to be to be sure they have got{disfmarker} I mean they are going crazy with the L_C_D_ technology now ,Industrial Designer: {gap}User Interface: The L_C_D_ .Project Manager: so that you've got your L_C_D_ T_V_s and everything so maybethe small {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: But I mean like I I {disfmarker} the black and white , I guess , it just doesn't look funky enough .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Um but , I mean , like even mobile phones or whatever have {disfmarker} now have colour L_C_D_ screens ,User Interface: No .Industrial Designer: Hmm .Project Manager: w I ju ImeanUser Interface: Yeah . SProject Manager: I wouldn't know about the costs of them .User Interface: Uh-huh .Industrial Designer: But uh price price not withstanding um , is it too complicated , is it gonna be toomuch just overload ?Marketing: And the {disfmarker}Project Manager: Twelve fifty .Marketing: Uh i it will be easy because there will be , on L_C_D_ s screen , there will be different frent icons , they can just click okokay , whatever they waProject Manager: {vocalsound} Possibly .User Interface: Yeah , that's the thing , because {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: But but the thing is when you use a remote control , you never look atit , right ? You're looking at the T_V_Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: and and it's uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: That's true , yeah .Industrial Designer: It justseems kind of like a a needless thUser Interface: And one of the survey findings was that they want it easy to use , so I think I'm not sure about the L_C_D_ .Project Manager: Right .User Interface: It's a it's great , it'sa good idea , but for our budget and for the thing we're trying to go for eas easy to use , it's not the thing we should go for , I think . Child-friendly , I thought this was good , as you pointed out the um {vocalsound}the bit , it often goes missing especially with children , but it's a good shape and the organic is kind of {disfmarker} we could make a vegetabley kind of round shape , I think .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah.Industrial Designer: So which vegetable ? {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well I mean we could make a {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah , I know , carrot {vocalsound} .Project Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: Okay . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well , si since we're going for the uh the k the sort of company colours , I think your lemon wasn't that far s {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: The the lemon . Well whatare the options ?User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: And if it doesn't work you know , we've just made a lemon . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: But we don't want it to be {disfmarker} Yeah . Um thechild-friendly , yeah . Easy to use , it seems quite easy to use . I like the d the different shapes of the buttons and stuff .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . I like I like the colourful buttons as well .User Interface: I thinkthat's a good idea to go for . Yeah . And the mouse one , I thought it was a good idea , because people use mo mice mouses now with the scrolling thing . Um .Project Manager: Yeah . I mean we are marketing to sortof twenty five to thirty five ,User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: so most people will have come in contact with that kind of use .User Interface: S yeah . So they'd be able to use that um , as I said I think i I'dpresume it would come up on the screen .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Um so there you go .Project Manager: And that means tha that means you get to bump that bit to the T_V_ maker , so{disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Oh .User Interface: So that's um the user interfaceProject Manager: 'Kay .User Interface: design .Project Manager: {vocalsound} {gap}Industrial Designer: Okay.User Interface: So okay , I'll take this out now then .Industrial Designer: Um soProject Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: There you go .Industrial Designer: I guess there are a lot of options that we're gonna haveto choose from among ,Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah , looks like it .Industrial Designer: and I'll I'll give you the uh , {vocalsound} I guess , technical considerations for those .User Interface: Mm .ProjectManager: {vocalsound} Uh {vocalsound}User Interface: {gap}Industrial Designer: And I'm gonna use the whiteboard , just 'cause we haven't used it {vocalsound} .Project Manager: Yeah , I was just thinking the selfsame thing . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Right . So , the way I'm gonna do this {vocalsound} is uh we're gonna take a look at some old remote controls , see how they work , uhreuse the the vital kind of um essential pieces of it ,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and then we'll throw in our new innovations um {vocalsound} and keep it all within budget .Project Manager:{vocalsound} Magic man .Industrial Designer: So uh yeah , looking inside a a very simple remote control . Um this is what they sent me . 'Kay . Here's uh the competition , I suppose .Project Manager:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Um you open it up , there's a circuit board inside ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: um {vocalsound} and there's a a chip , a processor , the T_A_ one one eight three"}
{"doc_id":"doc_191","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Okay . Uh first of all I'll start with the costs ,Marketing: {gap} .Project Manager: because that's going to influence our design .User Interface: {vocalsound} Oh no .Marketing: Oh , {gap} .{vocalsound}Project Manager: If you {disfmarker} Don't know if you al already had a look or not ?User Interface: No n I I already did it .Industrial Designer: Did you do your questionnaire already ?Marketing: No .UserInterface: It's not much . It's just one question .Project Manager: Because we have a problem .Industrial Designer: Uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Oh . {vocalsound}Project Manager: If you look closely , you can see .UserInterface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: It wants {disfmarker}Project Manager: Um I already took the liberty to make some suggestions . {gap} . {gap} . {vocalsound} At the moment we have fifteen buttons , oneL_C_D_ screen , one advanced chip-on-print . We use a uh sensor , that's for the speech . Uh we use kinetic energy . And we wanted uh the buttons in a special colour . Okay . What's the first thing we should drop ?The special colour of the buttons ?User Interface: No that's that's for the trendy uh feel and look . So {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay . Uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah but everything is .Project Manager:Should we switch to a hand dynamo ?User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh that's the still the same idea as the kinetic energy because you have to use it and do things .Marketing: No .User Interface: Yeah ,b but {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah but young people like that .Project Manager: Batteries ?Marketing: So just do normal battery .Project Manager: Batteries .User Interface: I think the battery option .IndustrialDesigner: Just a normal battery then , yeah .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: {gap} .Marketing: It has to be twelve and a half .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Or not ? {vocalsound}User Interface: Oh .{vocalsound}Project Manager: So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Oh my goodness .Project Manager: You're going to redesign something .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Oh no .Project Manager: Okay , sowe're at twenty five .Marketing: Uh , yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um {disfmarker} Do we keep the shape doubly curved or g do we go for single curved ?Industrial Designer: Well I guess i we'llhave to go for single curve then . I mean we have to drop on everything .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound} Uh {disfmarker}Marketing: But we can keep it single curved with uh top view still curved , but fromthe side it's it's flat ,Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: and the screen screen is just {disfmarker} Well you just have to hold it like this then . So {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah . Um{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: How about {disfmarker} Sorry .Project Manager: Uh another option I saw was to drop the buttons one through nine , so you can't directly access a channel , but instead use only the upand down arrows . That would skip nine buttons and four and a half Euros .Industrial Designer: That's what I was thinking .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Alright .Project Manager: Yeah ?Industrial Designer: AaMarketing: Let's do it then . Yeah .Project Manager: Uh then we have left {disfmarker}User Interface: But we don't have any basic options any more .Marketing: {gap} we {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Project Manager:Uh yeah . We do .Industrial Designer: And uh 'cause then they don't have to n They don't need special colour as well .Marketing: F_ eight .Project Manager: They don't need special colours . Fine . That's more like it.Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} You were saying something .Industrial Designer: That was exactly my point . Like let's drop all the buttons , and just makeoneProject Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: {disfmarker} I mean we're gonna use the L_C_D_ screen anyway . So we'll just have to use it for everything .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Yeah .Industrial Designer: Andthen you can make an overview of channels in the screen , and select a channel , click {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah , some more menu options . Yeah . Okay so maybe we can drop few more buttons .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}Project Manager: But um {disfmarker} Now let's look .User Interface: Yeah we c could {disfmarker} We only need the the the the the menu arrow arrow button uh thing . Everything you can dowith with the menu . So {disfmarker} With the display .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Yeah we need one integrated button for everything then .User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: The joystick .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah . Kind of . I was {disfmarker} Because {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah , scroll-wheel ,push-button uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah . If you if you go to {disfmarker}Marketing: Integrated scroll-wheel push-button , yeah .Industrial Designer: If you go to our uh view , like you {disfmarker} if youare in the sound system there , uh and you wanna adjust the treble for instance ,Project Manager: Yeah . Yeah .Industrial Designer: this is just uh an example ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: y y youwanna see a bar on which you can adjust it from zero to ten for example .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: But you want a sound preview of how it's gonna sound ,Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: right ? So you wanna click on it , activate it , whe and when you move it , hear the difference of the treble coming out or going into the sound .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: So you'llyou'll need a a kind of a joystick uh button .Marketing: Yeah or or the integrated scroll-wheel push-button .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: So that's kind of on your mouse and then you can click it , adjust it , clickagain and then you're out of it .Industrial Designer: Exactly .Marketing: But you still {disfmarker} But you then still need to have {disfmarker} Well you can use the scroll-wheel as well for um maybe for the channels .But you still um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah it's r Yeah .Marketing: You still have to have some some button in the menu to go back .User Interface: So you do one inte You can do one integrated scroll-wheelpush-button .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: And then just drop all the other buttons .Project Manager: Uh yeah .Marketing: Well not all .User Interface: But but th the cost of one integrated button is far more than afew extra push-buttons .Marketing: Not s not sound I guess .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} No .Project Manager: Yeah . It's uh {disfmarker} One integrated button is five times the cost of a normal button.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: So {disfmarker}User Interface: So we have to to make it s uh more uh {disfmarker} It has to be {disfmarker}Project Manager: Youcould also drop j three more of these , without losing much functionality . You just drop the Okay and the Back .Marketing: Yeah . Wh wh what what what is the what is the uh sample sensor sample speaker ?ProjectManager: Oh , that's for the speech .Marketing: Speech recognition .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Could drop the speech recognition . {vocalsound}Marketing: Right .Project Manager: S s Drop speechrecognition ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} No but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah that's possible . {vocalsound}User Interface: We we dIndustrial Designer: Yeah it's it's expensive , but uh we never consideredthe possibilities of uh speech recognition . 'Cause it can take the function of a lot of uh uh buttons .Project Manager: Buttons .Marketing: Buttons .Project Manager: That's not very easy to use .User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: IMarketing: No , it can be disturbed by by noise andIndustrial Designer: No .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah but lets just say that the speech recognition works .Marketing:stuff like that . Let let let me see what's more what's more popular . I guess the the screen was more popular than um than the speech recognition .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: I have to look on that . Let me see .{vocalsound} Uh well no I was wrong .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: There are more people who like speech recognition than an L_C_D_ screen .Project Manager: Yep . Okay . Because if you d lose theL_C_D_ screen , we {vocalsound} need a lot of {disfmarker}Marketing: But if it {disfmarker} {vocalsound} But it it {disfmarker} it's a it's a both a hypersUser Interface: We lose our whole concept .Project Manager:Yeah .User Interface: Uh so {disfmarker} No we just {disfmarker}Project Manager: We need a lot of extra buttons .Marketing: No , but {disfmarker}User Interface: We keep the L_C_D_ .Marketing: Well we Yeah wekeep the screen . I mean it's it's about the same . Eight one to ninety one percent , uh sixty six to seventy six .Project Manager: OkayIndustrial Designer: We uh we we haven't really integrated this {disfmarker} thespeech into the system ,Project Manager: so we drop the speech .Industrial Designer: so we can might as well s drop that . {gap}Project Manager: And drop it yeah ?User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah . Let's dropthe speech .Project Manager: Okay . S Fo Four less Euros . So we still have three and a half Euro to lose .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Sixteen Euros .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} We need to lose somebuttons .Marketing: But y yProject Manager: Yeah if you lose the the Back , the Okay button {disfmarker} Uh v let's say we only have the four arrows , and the Menu button .Marketing: Yeah . Yeah .Project Manager:Then you're {disfmarker}Marketing: And then and then use um {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Oh and the power button we have also .Marketing: The the {disfmarker} Okay . And the menu button doesalso does the okay function then .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: And then when you in the menu {disfmarker}Project Manager: So that's one Euro .Marketing: S so so you activate the menu .User Interface: If wedo uh two integrated scroll-wheel push-buttons , we can drop all the the push-buttons .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah . Yeah ? And {gap} {disfmarker}User Interface: With with one uh integrated button we canuh do the whole menu thing . With the other , we can do the the channel , the volume , et cetera .Marketing: Yeah yeah . {vocalsound} Yeah . {gap} .Project Manager: That would save zero point two Euros comparedto {disfmarker} No .User Interface: No it's three Euros . No ? Um {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah . To This together is more expensive than {disfmarker} Oof , it's almost the same as t keeping this .User Interface:No it's it's n Yeah . Yeah yeah yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: And we can drop these two .Marketing: Well okay .User Interface: It's the {disfmarker}Marketing: For example if you have f f four buttons ,{vocalsound} channel up and down , uh volume left right {disfmarker}Project Manager: Volume .Marketing: Okay , I've {disfmarker} I think we have to keep that .Project Manager: And the power button .Marketing:And then {disfmarker} and the power button . So that's five .Project Manager: That's the basic .Marketing: That's basic . That that's what you need anyway . And then for the menu , um you can have a button thatactivates menu . Or d or do we just integrate an an an scroll-wheel with a push-button . And then if the moment you use the scroll-wheel , the the the menu gets activated , and then you can scroll , choose an option ,click on it , it goes into an feature . Click on it again , selects features , scroll , adjust it . Click again , it's okay . Then you only need one button to move back . Or or under each option , you set a {disfmarker} you setan a screen thing what says back , and you select that one , click again , and you go one step back . And in that menu , scroll , click , one step back .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: So that then you need fivebuttons , and one integrated scroll-wheel push-button .Project Manager: Yep . Okay th that's {disfmarker}Marketing: But we can't drop three buttons .Industrial Designer: Which {gap} {disfmarker} That's even{disfmarker}Marketing: But I see that's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah that's one Euro more expensive .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: So {gap} {disfmarker} {vocalsound} that'snot a good idea .Project Manager: That's not an option .Marketing: Because which buttons do we have now ? Those five which I mentioned , and then menu , and then {disfmarker}Project Manager: Menu , power.Marketing: Yeah . F of the four things ?Project Manager: Four arrows ?Marketing: Yeah , th power .Project Manager: Power . Uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah , if you if you go to eight{disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Which more ?Industrial Designer: I don't know how to {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah . Okay . So four arrows ?Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Uh power I believe?Marketing: Power . Th Yeah that's five .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh {disfmarker} We have a Back and a Okay button .Marketing: Yeah , okay that's seven ,Project Manager: And the Menu .Marketing: and one toactivate the menu , yeah . So okay that's eight . Well we can't reduce that . We we keep the display .Project Manager: Yeah , and even if we drop three buttons from here , we still have to make some adjustmentsaround here . So {disfmarker}Marketing: Oh , well okay . Yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah , we need the chip for the for the L_C_ display .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: TheL_C_D_ ? Yeah .User Interface: Let's make the {disfmarker} Let's make the case plastic .Marketing: Yeah well we need the advanced {disfmarker}Project Manager: Then I rather make it wood .Marketing: Instead ofrProject Manager: Because then also it's good in the market with the forty five plus uh people .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah . True .Marketing: Yeah but but that's not our market .User Interface: But{disfmarker}Project Manager: No that {disfmarker} maybe not . But maybe it's better than plastic anyway .Marketing: Ah no , hard plastic . {vocalsound}User Interface: Plastic with a with a special colour .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound} Oh .User Interface: A woo wood uh wood uh wood colour .Marketing: Yeah , plastic with special colour .Project Manager: Yeah ? {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} No but I I{disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah okay uh {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} That's an option . {vocalsound}Marketing: Because we have to use the special colour anyway . You forgot that .User Interface:Yeah .Project Manager: Yep . Yeah , yeah .User Interface: So we do one one sMarketing: {vocalsound} So let's go for the plastic .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah , okay . Plastic .Marketing: And since it'snot kinetic , it doesn't have to flip around that much ?Project Manager: Uh that's easy because plastic is free . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Hmm .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Hmm .Marketing:We still have problem of two Euros .Project Manager: Yeah , okay . Uh if we dropped uh {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: No the buttons , those are really needed .Project Manager: Yeah ?UserInterface: Yeah th th it's it's uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah we can't drop them .User Interface: An advanced chip-on-print . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} You still need that .Industrial Designer: Yeahuh {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Do we really need that advanced chip for an L_C_D_ display ?Industrial Designer: You {disfmarker} uh uh {disfmarker} Yeah . So the other option would be to go for the thesample speaker , and {disfmarker} Which can use a regular chip , wh which is six Euros in total .Project Manager: {vocalsound} SIndustrial Designer: That doesn't matter .Marketing: Oh . I rather keep I rather keepthe display .Project Manager: No , I keep the re Yeah . Yeah . Because we already designed for it . So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Well yeah .Marketing: So the only option is an hand dynamo .Industrial Designer:Exactly .User Interface: {vocalsound} Oh that {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah and something else .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah but the {disfmarker}Marketing: Oh no tha Oh that's one Euro , right.Industrial Designer: uh can't we f uh fit all the buttons in an intreg integrated scroll push-button ? 'Cause that will save us one and a half Euro already . And then if wMarketing: And then integrated s Yeah but thatwould make it not so easy to use .Project Manager: No y you would recMarketing: I mean it's not that important , easy to use , but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Then you have {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Ththen we have to scroll through a lot of menus to be able to get where you want , huh ?Project Manager: Then you still need two additional buttons I believe .Industrial Designer: And uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: For the volume .Industrial Designer: Yeah d at l Yeah . At least one for power .Project Manager: You can use those {disfmarker} Yeah .User Interface: But the {disfmarker}Project Manager: Oh yeahand power . That's three buttons and this would cost {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Oh . Yeah it's just as expensive as what we have now .User Interface: But the integrated uh button ? How many func functions canit uh have ?Project Manager: Yeah . Three . Up , down , Okay .Industrial Designer: Yeah endlessly . I mean it can be a power button as soon as it powered on .User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: You can go intoyou in you main menu ,Marketing: You you press it for like three seconds .Industrial Designer: you can choose uh flip channel , uh you can choose sound options , any options .Marketing: Then then then you should doeverything in the menu . On the screen .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah , okay . It would save enough {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Maybe we should . 'Cause we don't have moneyand w we want the screen .Project Manager: Yeah you can choose this , drop these , then we have a half Euro left .Marketing: Yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} So we can maybe still use powerbutton .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah , but we'd {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Alright .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: I guess we have to .Marketing: It s it saves us four Euros and it costs us two and a half. So let's see , we we drop the price by one and a half .Project Manager: Yeah . You see ?Industrial Designer: We'll we'll be on {disfmarker}Marketing: But we still have thirteen left .Project Manager: Oh still{disfmarker} Yeah ? Oh then I miscalculated . Oh yeah .Marketing: Thirteen . So still half . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Shit . Drop the special colour . {vocalsound}Marketing: There goes the special co{vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Oh no .Marketing: Well {disfmarker} {vocalsound} That would make it less appealing . So that's no option .Project Manager: {vocalsound} 'Kay . What else ? Uncurved ?UserInterface: No no , it has to be um curved .Marketing: We sure about the advanced chip we need for the display ?Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah it says right here .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Theymade it very easy for us . {vocalsound}User Interface: Okay .Marketing: Well yeah . {vocalsound} {gap} yeah . We made it hard for ourselves with the display , but it's a cool feature .Project Manager: Ah , I don'tthink I can s uh persuade the management to say , this is better for the market so you sell more than {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Okay . Wh what we could do is um{disfmarker} drop the the special colour , and uh do the special colour for the buttons .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: Buttons . That's {disfmarker} Oh yeah since we only have one button.User Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah but I mean what is meant by special colour ?Project Manager: I just m I don't {disfmarker} I think{disfmarker}User Interface: Just something else than than black or white I think .Project Manager: Uh yeah it's {disfmarker} I think it's grey , regular .Marketing: S yeah . Alright .Project Manager: Grey and rubber.Industrial Designer: But we definitely want the thing to be a special colour though .Project Manager: Of plastic .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Damn .Marketing: So I ratherhave an hand dynamo {vocalsound} than than drop the colour .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah and then {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah"}
{"doc_id":"doc_192","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Okay . Oh , that's not gonna work . {vocalsound} Oh , alright . {vocalsound} Okay . Okay . Um alright .Marketing: Uh , uh , um .Project Manager: I'll just put that there . Uh as you all know we're hereto create a brand new fantastic remote . Uh I'm Nick Debusk , I'm the Project Manager . Uh we'll just get started with everyone kind of letting each other know who they are and what you're doing , what your what yourrole is um . Go ahead .Marketing: Okay . {vocalsound} I am Corinne Whiting and I will be the Marketing Expert and in each of the three phases I will have a different role . In the function design phase I will be talkingabout user requirement specification , and this means what needs and desires are to be fulfilled , and I'll be doing research to figure this out . In the conceptual design phase I will be dealing with trend watching and I'llbe doing marketing research on the web . And then finally in the um detailed design phase I will be doing product evaluation and so I will be collecting the requirements and ranking all the requirements to see how wedid .Project Manager: 'Kay .User Interface: Hiya , I'm Ryan . Um I'm the User Interface Designer . Um likewise I've three different roles for each stage of design . Um the functional design is looking at the tex technicalfunctions of a remote control . Um in the concept design , the user interface , how the user reacts with the the product . And the detailed design um {vocalsound} sort of like the user interface design , what they mightbe looking for , uh things like fashions , what makes wha how we're gonna make it special . That's about it .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Right . {vocalsound} I'm Manuel and I'm the Industrial Designer in in thisproject um . In the functional design phase I'm {disfmarker} I'll be dealing mostly with the requirements , um we'll discuss what the prog what functions the the product has to fulfil and so and so on . Um I supposewe'll work pretty much together on that one . Um um in the conceptual design um I'll be pro mostly dealing with properties and materials um of our product .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: And uh thedetailed design {disfmarker} in the detailed design I'll be concerned with the look and feel of the product itself , um so we're pretty much working together obviously on the design front here . Okay .{vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay . Um so we've got our opening , our our agenda is the opening , uh acquaintance which we've kinda done . Uh tool training , project plan discussion and then closing .User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh grand total of twenty five minutes we have here . Um so we are putting together a new remote control . Um we want it to be something original . Um ofcourse we're a {disfmarker} not only a electronics company but a fashion um conscious electronics company , so we want it to be trendy um and we want it to be easy to use . {vocalsound} Um we've got the functionaldesign , conceptual design and detailed design um which basically is is the three of you um . And w uh {vocalsound} well um functional design um . Um do we have {disfmarker} um any ideas of of {disfmarker}{vocalsound} maybe d let's just throw out some ideas of what kind of remote control we want to have , and then we can go into how we're gonna design it and and how we're gonna do the detailing on it .UserInterface: Yeah . Well uh s function of remote control is just just {disfmarker} you know , change channels is its main function .Project Manager: So we want it to be um a T_V_ remote or {disfmarker} I I mean do wewant it to to do other things besides just be a a television remote ?User Interface: Oh right . I suppose you c try make it a universal remoteProject Manager: 'Kay .User Interface: for {disfmarker} could work on all sortof electrical products in in one person's house . But , you know , they all sorta have the same role changing channels , volumes and then programming .Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}ProjectManager: Mm-hmm . 'Kay .Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: I think they all work on the same prin principle as well sorta like {disfmarker} I don't actually know . {gap} But is it just infra-red ? Is that standard?Project Manager: I I think {disfmarker} yeah , yeah , r universal remote .User Interface: Ye yeah .Project Manager: Um this is my first uh go-round with creating a remote control ,Marketing: Huh .{vocalsound}Project Manager: so {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Ours too . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} I think we're all in the same boat here . {vocalsound} Um{disfmarker}User Interface: Um one thing I thought of with the remote control is you always lose 'em .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: So if there's a g a way of finding it quite easily , I thought that'd be quitegood quite a good feature .Marketing: Mm . ChProject Manager: So we should we should set our remote control up to where it has a uhMarketing: Like a tracking device ? {vocalsound}Project Manager: like a trackingdevice or or like a a {disfmarker}User Interface: Oh you can get those key {disfmarker} well you could whistle or make a noiseProject Manager: It makes a noise ,User Interface: and it'd beep .Project Manager: there'sa button on the T_V_ that you pressIndustrial Designer: Mm , mm .Project Manager: and {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: Right .Project Manager: 'Kay .Marketing: Be good.Industrial Designer: So {disfmarker}User Interface: Generally , all remotes are sort of quite similar in their appearance .Project Manager: Yeah . Do we want {disfmarker}User Interface: Just long .Project Manager: sothey're kinda like long and rectangular .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: Do we want something crazy ?User Interface: Black usually .Project Manager: You know , we want something new that'sgonna stand out .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Lot more modern .Project Manager: A m a modern {disfmarker} so our remote should be {disfmarker}User Interface: I think so . Maybe sorta spherical or something .A ball .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Maybe like user-friendly , like a littleUser Interface: Yeah .Marketing: you know , where you can use both hands , like a little keyboard type thing .User Interface:People {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: I thought maybe , because people always tend to throw a remote control about the place to one another {disfmarker} if it was in a ball ,Project Manager:'Kay .User Interface: and maybe the actual controls are inside or something .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: Um .Industrial Designer: Well there are of course certain restrictions , you can't have it be any form andfulfil all functions at the same time ,User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: so there are always the {disfmarker} some restrictions we have to apply here . Um however um one question is how stable is that thingsupposed to be , that refers to the material , pretty much um . What are we gonna build that thing out of ?Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: How sturdy is it gonna be ? Do we want it to last longer or rather havepeople whatever , have to buy one every half a year ?Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay so {disfmarker} yeah , so we want it to be sturdy ,User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: we want it to to hold up tosomebody's child , you know , throwing it across the room or , as you said , people kinda throw it , so ball-shaped , uh you know , if it were ball-shaped maybe ,User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: then it{disfmarker}User Interface: It could be cased on the outside and t everything could be inside .Project Manager: 'Kay . Um so we want it to be modern , fun , sturdy , um {disfmarker} So our form and our function . Umwe want it to be um easy to find . {vocalsound} Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} What else {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} what else do we want it to to do ? So we want it to be universal . It's something that we'resupposed to sell for about twenty five Euros um and you know , goals for profits are I think somewhere around uh fifty million Euros , what they wanna make on it , so .Marketing: Mm . Also since we're partners of theInternational Remote Control Association , maybe we wanna make it something that would globally appeal .Project Manager: 'Kay .Marketing: That's more on the research end , but {disfmarker} the marketing .ProjectManager: So marketing , you know , how {disfmarker} maybe uh marketing , you could s find out what is the most universally um appealing {vocalsound} remote control out there .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: And maybe as far as design goes , maybe we could have different ones for different target audiences ,Project Manager: 'Kay .Marketing: 'cause maybe one won't apply toall of the countries we're targeting .User Interface: Ye Small .Industrial Designer: Right .Project Manager: Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Do you guys have any ideas for what it should look like ? Maybe we could drawit up on the on the board over there . Some ideas ? We want it to be a b a ball ,User Interface: {gap} I'd {disfmarker} I could draw sorta the ball idea .Project Manager: you know , we'll draw up we'll draw up the balland maybe th um where the buttons are located .User Interface: My original idea was just simply sort of a sphere , where maybe you {disfmarker} this is where it's connected together , and then when you open it out ,it could fol it could be maybe flip , like a flip phone , and then when you fold it out the middle {disfmarker} Maybe a hinge that'll have to be the strongest part of it . If that {disfmarker} if we did use a hinge , or if it wasjust two parts ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: and then you'd have just sorta you you you know , your buttons . Thing is inside I think , sometimes remotes have too many buttons , so maybe assimple as possible , um as few buttons inside as possible . Um , I dunno , what's the idea for . Just something {disfmarker} maybe if you ha if it had like if some kind of like light or something or lights around it . It'slooking a bit like something out of Star Wars at the moment though , to be fair .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} But yeah .Marketing: Futuristic .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: That was that was a sorta simple idea I hadProject Manager: Uh-huh .User Interface: and then you know you could {gap} about {disfmarker} Right , itwould almost be like a ball . So that was just just an idea I had . I don't know whether anybody else has other ideas ?Industrial Designer: Right . One problem you'd get with this design is um {disfmarker} the ball is anice idea because of it's stability really ,User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: but of course , since it's a ball , it'll roll , so we'd have to have it flat on one side at least , down here somewhere ,User Interface: Yeah .Maybe f yeah .Industrial Designer: take away that part . That's one of the big issues . Also also you risk the hinges here . That's that's um a problem .User Interface: Yeah , that's g that's a good idea . Yeah . The idea{disfmarker} it didn't have to necessarily be f a hinge ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} That's that's {vocalsound} interesting of course ,User Interface: that was just one idea though .Industrial Designer: but that's ofcourse a weak point , yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: How would we go about um making you know {disfmarker} getting rid of our weak points ? What {disfmarker} I mean wouldwe just have a flat spot on the bottom of the ball ?User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Not to put you on the spot ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} E No no ,ProjectManager: but {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: uh uh {vocalsound} .Project Manager: What did you say your title was again ?Industrial Designer: N nMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: You're the the IndustrialDesigner .Industrial Designer: Uh , I'm your Industrial Designer ,Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: so i b well ,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: the point is that {vocalsound} well maybe{disfmarker} I dunno . The shape is perhaps not the most ideal .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: As as stable as it is , there must be a compromise between um stability and design here , so .User Interface:Well I I suppose that things become {gap} design . But I mean iMarketing: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}User Interface: I was trying to think of like the design of others . I can't think of anything other than a long rectanglefor remote ,Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah .User Interface: maybe small , sort of fatter ones , but there's nothing being done sort of out of left field , yeah .Project Manager: It's not new , it's not innovative , it's{disfmarker} you know , everybody does long remote because it's easy ,User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: it's it's stable um .Marketing: 'Kay , I'll draw something . {vocalsound}Project Manager: So if{disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: What ? {vocalsound}Project Manager: no , go ahead .Marketing: My idea was just to have it be kind of like a keyboard type shape , you know , like video gamesUser Interface:Yeah .Marketing: l so . But maybe {disfmarker} I mean that would be kinda big and bulky . We could also try to do the hinge thing , so it could like flip out that way . I don't know . {vocalsound} That's my idea .UserInterface: I think definitely doing something differentMarketing: Yeah .User Interface: is a good idea .Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: I mean maybe design something , that's sort of like {vocalsound} supposenot everybody's everybody's hand's the same , but something that would maybe fit in the hand easier .Project Manager: Something with a grip .Marketing: Mm . Yeah .User Interface: Yeah , with a grip .ProjectManager: {vocalsound} Yeah . Because even {disfmarker} I suppose even with the ballUser Interface: It still might be hard to {disfmarker}Project Manager: it's {disfmarker}User Interface: it still not the ho easiestthing to hold , yeah .Project Manager: it might not be the easiest to hold onto um .Industrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: So perhaps the the joystick {disfmarker} the the keyboard idea might work better .UserInterface: Like {disfmarker} yeah .Project Manager: But then again , people like to use one hand to flip and one hand to hold their soda , so maybe maybe we {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah .Marketing:{vocalsound} True .User Interface: It's d yeah . I think it's definitely got to be a a one-handed a one-handed job .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: I feel like I'm just shooting everything down here .User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} That's fine .Project Manager: Uh {vocalsound} um {disfmarker}Marketing: You're the boss , you're {vocalsound} allowed to .Industrial Designer: Well with the one-handed designyou also have the the problem of the size w 'cause you know from cell phones , they can be too small . So if the remote is too small it {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: if it'ssmall it probably looks better , but may not be th as functional . So for that there's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay , soIndustrial Designer: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: unfortunately we've got about fiveminutes here {vocalsound} to come up with our um remote control idea and start rolling with it . Um we've talked about our experiences with remote control and um we've got a couple ideas um . Let's see here . Whatif we had what if we had not only um {disfmarker} say we went with the ball the ball function um , but maybe we give it sort of grips along the side s um to make it easier to hold on to . So you know um s so it's easierto hold onto that way .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Course that'll then remove some of our our ball . Unless this unless this part were raised , so say the cover flips over and covers that part . So the grip is{disfmarker} No , that wouldn't work either um . But if we're gonna make it flat on the bottom , then that eliminates our ball anyways . So if it were flat on the bottom and then had the sorta grips on the side here Iguess , um and then {vocalsound} flat uh {disfmarker} And then we have the problem with the hinge . So if we're flat on the bottom , it's not gonna roll away , it'll stay where we want .Industrial Designer: Thequestion is also , I dunno , d do you really always want to open that thing when you have to use it ?Project Manager: Mm , that's true .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} It's probably going to lie around opened all thetime anyway , so I don't know if a lid is a good idea . From stabil stability point of view uh it certainly is , but also you have to face it and take into account the more of these things break by accident , uh the more wesell . So it's {disfmarker} don't make it too stable {vocalsound} uh .Project Manager: So we don't have it flip open . We just have a ball {disfmarker}User Interface: But then maybe to go back to the to th s somethingalong those things then .Industrial Designer: To the other design .Project Manager: Okay , so then we forget the ball .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} It looks cool . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Looks coolthough .Project Manager: {vocalsound} It looks cool , but it's really not {disfmarker} it's not functional um .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Uh {vocalsound} functional .Project Manager: So we've got our sort ofkeyboard kind . What if we flipped it around here , so that it were um {disfmarker} Sorry , that doesn't look anything like what you {vocalsound} had there . Um so it's up and down , you hold it this way .UserInterface: Yeah .Project Manager: Course then it's it's like the rectangular {vocalsound} again , only with a couple of jutting out points . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Right . Right .ProjectManager: But it's one-handed um .Industrial Designer: Question is what makes those game pads functional ? W I think that's pretty much the form for full hand . So it's a round shape underneath that makes it comfy,Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: right ,Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: makes it nice , so that's the essential part . Except for that I think we'll not {disfmarker} probably not get a get away from somelonger design .Project Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound}Marketing: Right .Industrial Designer: 'Cause you also have to know which way around to point this thing .Project Manager: Yeah ,Industrial Designer: You know ,allProject Manager: because it doesn't have a cord , like joysticks do .Industrial Designer: that dif batteries {disfmarker} right , and {disfmarker} Batteries go weak as well , so um after a while you have to point ittowards the uh towards the equipment you wanna control with it , right ? So , have to m show which is the front , which is the back .Project Manager: Is it possible to have it to where it would work with a like a sensoron either side ? So that either way you're pointing it it would work .Industrial Designer: I suppose you could do that . O of course the more technology you stick in that , the more it'll cost , so .Project Manager: Moreexpensive and {disfmarker} yeah .Industrial Designer: Course you can do that .Project Manager: {vocalsound} 'Kay . Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I mean of course it'll be evident after a while or {disfmarker}if you look at it , it'll it'll be evident which way around to point it , since you have the the numbers and the and the {vocalsound} the buttons and stuff ,Project Manager: True .Industrial Designer: but um it's ratherabout an instinctual thing ,User Interface: Put it {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: like you just grab it , you don't have to s look at it , you know , which way around to point it . Otherwise the design of {disfmarker} orthe the point of putting two sensors on both sides um would probably work .User Interface: Even if you designed it {disfmarker} in some {disfmarker} in a way that you know , isn't a rectangle , but still pointed in adirection that had definite points . So if that's your thing and you got something like that instead ,Marketing: Yeah . {vocalsound}User Interface: and there's your s you kn you know which way you're gonna pointing it.Project Manager: 'Kay .User Interface: Um {disfmarker}Marketing: Sorry to interrupt , but we have a warning to finish .Project Manager: Are we out of time ?Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: Yeah .ProjectManager: Okay , well , just to finish up , should we s go with this plan , start making some {disfmarker} Are good ideas , what are not .Industrial Designer: Let's .User Interface: Does it say {disfmarker} what does itsay for nIndustrial Designer: Obviously {disfmarker}User Interface: it says on there what we need to do for the next meeting , I think .Project Manager: Uh . Must finish now , so .User Interface: TProject Manager: And"}
{"doc_id":"doc_193","qid":"","text":"Gareth Rogers: Good morning, and welcome to today's meeting of the Children, Young People and Education Committee. Unfortunately, the Chair is unable to attend today, so in accordance with Standing Order 17.22 Icall for nominations for a temporary Chair for the duration of today's meeting.Julie Morgan AM: I nominate John Griffiths.Gareth Rogers: Thank you.Darren Millar AM: I'll second that nomination.Gareth Rogers: Asthere's only one nomination, I declare that John Griffiths has been appointed as temporary Chair. Thank you, John.John Griffiths AM: Okay. Thank you all very much, and item 1 on our agenda today is introductions,apologies, substitutions and declarations of interest. We've received apologies from Hefin David and Lynne Neagle. There are no substitutions. Are there any declarations of interest? No. We will move on then to item 2,and our inquiry into the impact of Brexit on higher and further education, and our first evidence session. I'm very pleased to welcome the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales here today, and Dr David Blaney aschief executive, and Bethan Owen, director of institutional engagement. Welcome to you both. Thanks for coming along to give evidence today. If it's okay with you, we'll move straight to questions, and JulieMorgan.Julie Morgan AM: Good morning. Bore da. I wondered if we could start off with you telling us what evidence you can see that the Brexit process has had any impact on Welsh higher education so far.Dr DavidBlaney: Can I preface the response by just reminding you that we are, by contract and by role, apolitical, and a lot of the judgments about the impact of Brexit essentially reflect where people sit politically in terms ofwhether they think it's a good thing or a bad thing? We're not going to go there, obviously, today, so we'll stick to the facts as we can see them, and hopefully we'll be able to help you, but there are areas where we areunable to help. That's part of the reason.John Griffiths AM: We certainly do not expect you to enter the political fray in any way.Dr David Blaney: Thank you. But even in terms of your assessment of whether this isgoing to be a good thing or a bad thing, a good impact or a bad impact, some of that inevitably in the end becomes a matter of your politics on it, so we will be as careful as we can be on that. In terms of the impact ofBrexit on higher education, clearly, the significance here is about the contribution that higher education can make to Wales. So, we fund provision; we don't fund providers, technically, although obviously there's notmuch provision without providers. So, we are interested in the sustainability of higher education providers, but fundamentally the issue is: what does the HE system in Wales do for Wales, and what impact might Brexithave on the capacity of the system to continue to deliver for Wales? So, we know that universities make annually about £5 billion of impact; 50,000 jobs. Of course, in Wales, all of that economic impact is really verysignificant, and uncertainty about the relationships and the arrangements with Europe is one of the most significant issues confronting university management at the moment. That has an impact in a number of ways.We can identify at the moment the extent to which the HE sector in Wales is exposed to sources of income that are located from the EU, so EU students, structural funds, and EU research funding, and so on, from theEU. We can identify some of that, but, actually, what happens in the future is much harder to be clear about. We are beginning to see some impact in terms of applications from EU students and I'll ask Bethan to sharesome details on that in a moment. We're also beginning to pick up, only anecdotally, some signs that there are increasing difficulties in the UK sector, and the Welsh sector as part of that, in playing in some of the EUcollaborative research activities. And that, I think, just reflects the extent to which EU partners consider that British partners might be a stable partner as we go through this transition period. We don't have data onthat—that's anecdotal—but there are signs that some of those relationships are beginning to become a little bit more difficult. In terms of the financial impact of that, clearly, if it is accepted that the UK is a netcontributor to the EU then, presumably, some of the money—we're almost immediately straight into politics if you're not careful—but some of the money will be available back to the UK, and the extent to which Walesbenefits or not from that returned money is a function of the political relationship between the Welsh Government and Her Majesty's Government. It's not necessarily the case that Wales will always lose out in thatrelationship, but that will become a matter of politics. There's a broader dimension, which is about the economic impact of Brexit on the UK economy and how much tax revenue there is and all of that. I think it's veryhard for us to be definitive about how that's going to play out. I think that depends on the deal and how it all unfolds over the next several years. But we can certainly anticipate some turbulence and exactly how thatplays for institutions remains to be seen. We can touch later on on the extent to which they are sighted on this and preparing for it. So, in terms of recruitment, Bethan.Bethan Owen: This is based on theUCAS applications and the report that was published at the end of June, 30 June. The European Union-domiciled applicants to Wales have decreased by 8 per cent, which contrasts with a 2 per cent increase for Englishinstitutions, and non-EU—so international students, not from Europe—have also decreased by 9 per cent to Welsh institutions, again contrasting with a 7 per cent increase in England. So, those are the signs ofchanges.John Griffiths AM: Okay. Could I then just ask you what you see as the main pressures on the Welsh higher education sector at the moment?Bethan Owen: The funding position would be the main pressure. Therecommendations made by Sir Ian Diamond in his review of higher education funding and student finance are in the process of being implemented, and the changes to the student finance arrangements will take effectfrom this September. However, the recommendations for re-establishing funding at Welsh institutions are expected to take quite a bit longer. That funding, when it returns to institutions, is intended to re-establishfunding for higher cost provision, both full time and part time; reinstate funding for innovation; and maintain, at the very least, the research funding in real terms. Universities, in the meantime, are trying to minimisethe cost reductions that they're making in order to maintain the infrastructure, so that when the funding comes they can get the best value out of it. We have announced our funding allocations for 2018-19. For theresearch and teaching grant, though, we are still funding at a lower level—£12.5 million less—then the starting point for the Diamond report, the 2015-16 starting report. But we expect to be able to start introducingfunding from 2019-20 to make a start on implementing Diamond. And it's probably important to note that the Diamond recommendations predated Brexit, therefore the challenges introduced by Brexit are in addition tothose that the Diamond report was addressing. The other pressures relate to student recruitment. I mentioned the EU and international students. There is also the start of a reduction, both in Welsh-domiciled andEnglish-domiciled applications to Wales. Enrolments are obviously the key important number, which we'll see later. And the other pressures include pay and pension costs, not least the issues around the universitiessuperannuation scheme pension fund, where there's potentially a significant increase in cost. Increased student expectations for modern facilities and infrastructure bring a requirement for capital expenditure andborrowing, which bring their own pressures. And finally, the uncertainty about potential consequences that could arise from the review in England of fees and funding—the Augar review.John Griffiths AM: In terms ofEuropean Union students and enrolment, is Wales forecast to do less well than England and, if so, why might that be?Bethan Owen: They are not forecasting it. It's very difficult until the enrolments are made, and it'salso very hard to see—the data that we see is the UCAS data. Institutions also recruit directly, so until we see the actual recruitment—. I think the arrangements that have changed from 2018-19 also impact on EUstudents. So, now, they have to find the full fee, whereas previously they were getting the grant in the same way as Welsh students. So, I'm speculating that that might be having an impact as well on EU students'appetite to come.John Griffiths AM: Okay. First of all Llyr, then Mark.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Well, that's straight into what I was going to ask, really, about what you think the factors are that led to this 8 per cent or 9 percent drop in EU students applying to study in Wales, where we see a 2 per cent increase in England. Is that it, or are there other things that you've taken into account? What's your assessment of the reasons behindthis?Dr David Blaney: It's very difficult to be definitive about the reasons, but I think there are probably two. The one that Bethan has already indicated, which is the change in student support arrangements for EUstudents, will have an effect of perturbation. That's probably relatively temporary—let's hope it is—as that settles down because, actually, the deal for EU students coming into Wales is no worse than that coming intoEngland. Ours would be better because the fee level is slightly lower, but we do struggle in Wales in terms of the Anglocentric nature of the media and so on. So, getting the messages out is a challenge. The otherdimension is that when you're in a highly competitive recruitment market, you have to do what you can to look attractive. Part of that is about being able to invest in facilities, and particularly buildings and kit, and therelative levels of investment between Wales and England over quite a long period of time now probably have an impact on that. Certainly, anecdotally I know, from my own family, that a lot of the choices have beenmade in terms of the state of repair of campuses and so on. There's something rational about that, isn't there? If you've got a system that is relatively better invested, then you're likely to have a better studentexperience because the resources are likely to be better. So, that's not irrational. We saw a sort of similar but opposite effect when the £9,000 fee maximum limit came in, and some institutions, mostly inEngland—there was one in Wales—chose to pitch their fee levels really quite low, relative to that £9,000, and caught a cold in the student recruitment market because fee levels denote quality in the student mind. So,the price sensitivities work quite differently. So, again, if you've got a relatively better invested part of the system, then that might well be one of the reasons why it looks more attractive.Llyr Gruffydd AM: That latterfactor would affect the whole of the cohort, not just the international recruitment, of course.Dr David Blaney: Indeed. Yes, indeed. The implementation of the Diamond recommendations is crucial to that because that'sre-balancing where the policy of investment goes.John Griffiths AM: Okay. And Mark.Mark Reckless AM: If I heard you correctly earlier, you said that the applications from non-EU students were also down by 8 per centor 9 per cent. So, forgive me a certain scepticism about the explanation of the fall in the EU students being that they did get the fee grant and now they do not. If that's the explanation, why are we seeing the same fallin non-EU applications?Dr David Blaney: Well, I think the Welsh domiciled are also now having to face the prospect of finding a loan for the whole of the fee. So, that would potentially account for that. There's also ademographic dimension here with the downturn in the 18-year-old school-leaver profile, and that actually is happening in Wales at a slightly later point than in England.Mark Reckless AM: But this is non-EU students,and I think you said, Bethan, an 8 per cent or 9 per cent fall in them as well.Dr David Blaney: International non-EU. I beg your pardon. I misunderstood.Bethan Owen: There's also a mix effect. I gave a number thatwas for all English institutions that there will be differential impacts on.Mark Reckless AM: All English or all Welsh?Bethan Owen: Well, I contrasted the Welsh position with the English position where they were seeinggrowth. If you look, then—and we don't have the detailed information, but, again, what UCAS publish is some analysis by tariff. They analyse by type of institution—in other words, the grades that you need to get intoinstitutions—and there is a trend for growth being in the higher tariff institutions. So, there's a mix effect in there as well, and I think there's undoubtedly an element of perception of how welcome overseas andinternational students are, and that's something that we know the sector are working on with Government.Mark Reckless AM: Why would that affect Wales more than England? Do you think there's been perhaps toogreat a negativity about Brexit in the sector?Bethan Owen: I think it's the mix of institutions that we have. So, we only have sector information published at the moment. When we look at the mix of institutions that wehave, we will probably see a differential impact between Cardiff University and others.John Griffiths AM: Okay, Mark? Sorry, David, did you want to add anything?Dr David Blaney: I was just going to say that we wouldexpect to see quite differential performance in the English sector, so the overall numbers are being brought up by substantial increased performance with some of that sector, and it's a question of how many of that typeof institution you have in Wales.Mark Reckless AM: So, performance is increasing amongst the English universities, but not amongst the Welsh, you think.Dr David Blaney: I think performance is increasing, butincreasing substantially with some of the English sector, not all of it. So, you get an average for the sector that is increased performance, but actually the stronger players within that sector, with the strongerinternational profiles, are bringing that up, and we have fewer in Wales that have that sort of presence.John Griffiths AM: Okay. Darren.Darren Millar AM: Would it be fair to say, then, that the universities over theborder in England are better at selling themselves internationally than our Welsh institutions? Or is it just this fact that we've got fewer very high tariff universities versus the English market?Dr David Blaney: I suspect,and this is speculation—I suspect that it's a bit of both. I think some of it is to do with the mix of different types of institution. I would then come back to the point I was making about the Anglocentric nature of the UKmedia. If you're looking overseas, I think Wales has to work harder to penetrate the consciousness.Darren Millar AM: But, forgive me, don't international students just look at the UK as a whole? How are we comparingto Scotland, for example, or Northern Ireland, in terms of their universities? Do you have a comparative figure for Scottish universities?Bethan Owen: I haven't got that one with me for now, but there will be one in thedata.Dr David Blaney: Yes, we could get that.Bethan Owen: Again, it's a combination of being part of the UK but differentiating, and the ability to differentiate the strengths of Wales, so attracting those students toWales specifically, on top of the UK draw.Dr David Blaney: So, in terms of the efforts that have been made, there's a programme now that is being run by the sector in Wales—it's 'Study in Wales'. It's relatively recent;you could argue that we could have got there earlier. But that is a determined collective effort to present Wales as a good place to study, with particular messages about what distinguishes studying in Wales fromstudying more broadly in the UK. In a sense, that is responding to the need to increase the presence of Wales in an international market. So, that sort of initiative I think is very good, very welcome. It will take a whileto actually have an impact, but I think that's exactly the sort of work the sector need to be doing more of.Mark Reckless AM: What are those messages on why prospective students should study in Wales?Dr DavidBlaney: One of them in particular is relative safety. We know that one of the considerations, particularly for parents of overseas students, is are they going to go to a safe environment, and we know that the perceptionof international students who study in Wales is that this is a comfortable and safe place to be. That's partly a function of the size of our larger cities—quite a lot smaller than many of the cities in England. So, that's a keymessage. Being part of a UK system is also an important message there as well. So, we've got a UK-quality system, a UK degree, and the strength of that brand is available in Wales, but it's available in a way that issafer and more supportive, I think is the messaging that's coming through.John Griffiths AM: Okay. We'd better move on, I think, hadn't we? Darren, then.Darren Millar AM: I just wonder to what extent you have beenable to plan in your financial forecasts for the next few years ahead for the potential impacts of Brexit. What have you built in, if anything?Bethan Owen: In terms of our funding, we receive our funding annually, but thesector provides us with financial forecasts, and we use those for monitoring sustainability. So, the last full forecasts that we had were in July 2017. We are due to receive a full forecast at the end of this month, and weobviously have updated information from institutions.Darren Millar AM: And they're three-year forecasts that come through to you, aren't they?Bethan Owen: They are four plus the current year. So, we've got numbersto 2019-20 at the moment, and expect to go to 2020-21.Darren Millar AM: And what are the universities expecting? What do they anticipate?Bethan Owen: Well, for 2017-18, which is the year we're about to end now,they were expecting £38 million income from European students, and approximately £91 million from the various European programme funding sources, and that's about 8 per cent of the total income—£1.5 billion—ofthe sector. The forecasts are assuming that that continues, albeit that institutions have various scenarios that they have for all sorts of scenarios that we can all speculate on, and, as I mentioned earlier, the balancingact of maintaining infrastructure and resources and staff in the short term is where we are at the moment, or where the sector is at the moment. And there are also signs that the banks and lending institutions arebecoming a bit more risk-averse in providing borrowing to institutions, and of more differentiation between individual institutions being made than has possibly been the case in the past. The sector made an operatingdeficit, again looking at all Welsh institutions collectively last year, 2016-17, of £17 million. That's before other gains and losses. And we're expecting a similar collective level of deficit for this financial year, if not slightlyhigher. Now, these are managed deficits and we are not currently seeing critical short-term cash availability issues in the sector. However, the increase in funding from Diamond is a key part of enabling the sector toreturn to longer-term financial sustainability. Short-term challenges can be met if there's a reasonable prospect of future funding. You can manage in the short-term, but there comes a point when the big costreductions and infrastructure reductions have to be made. And, again, having mentioned the pressures on pay, pensions and other challenges, it is difficult to gauge whether, if those factors come into play as well, someof these cost reductions may have to be made before funding comes in to replace—either Diamond funding or the European replacement funding.Darren Millar AM: So, would it be fair to say that, in terms of the fundingarrangements, and, in terms of the student numbers, one reason why we've got this recruitment problem is this lack of investment in the capital infrastructure that we've seen in recent years because of the financingarrangements from the Welsh Government, and the fee regime that we had previously, and the student finance regime that we had previously, not getting more cash into our Welsh universities perhaps, and that, overthe next few years, there's going to have to be much more significant investment in capital if we're to raise the game and be more competitive, yes?Bethan Owen: Yes, that would be fair to say.Darren Millar AM: So, towhat extent are they planning for more capital investment in those financial strategies that they've been preparing and presenting to you?Bethan Owen: They are all planning for capital investment. They are in differentpositions in terms of capacity to borrow and the assumptions. This year, 2018-19, is the first time that we've had capital funding in our remit letter—so, we've got £10 million of capital funding, which is very welcome,"}
{"doc_id":"doc_194","qid":"","text":"Grad B: what things to talk about .Grad F: I 'm {disfmarker} What ? Really ? Oh , that 's horrible ! Disincentive !Grad A: OK , we 're recording .Grad F: Hello ?Grad B: Check check {pause} check check .Grad D: Uh ,yeah .Grad F: Hello ? Which am I ?Professor C: Oh right .Grad B: Alright . Good .Grad F: Channel fi OK . OK . Are you doing something ? OK , then I guess I 'm doing something . So , um , So basically the result of mmuch thinking since the last time we met , um , but not as much writing , um , is a sheet that I have a lot of , like , thoughts and justification of comments on but I 'll just pass out as is right now . So , um , here . If youcould pass this around ? And there 's two things . And so one on one side is {disfmarker} on one side is a sort of the revised sort of updated semantic specification .Grad D: Um {disfmarker} The {disfmarker} wait.Grad F: And the other side is , um , sort of a revised construction formalism .Grad E: This is just one sheet , right ?Grad D: Ah ! Just one sheet .Grad F: It 's just one sheet .Grad D: OK .Grad F: It 's just a {disfmarker}Nothing else .Grad D: Front , back .Grad F: Um , Enough to go around ? OK . And in some ways it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's very similar to {disfmarker} There are very few changes in some ways from whatwe 've , um , uh , b done before but I don't think everyone here has seen all of this . So , uh , I 'm not sure where to begin . Um , as usual the disclaimers are there are {disfmarker} all these things are {disfmarker} it's only slightly more stable than it was before .Grad E: Mm - hmm .Grad F: And , um , after a little bit more discussion and especially like Keith and I {disfmarker} I have more linguistic things to settle in the next fewdays , um , it 'll probably change again some more .Grad E: Yeah .Grad F: Um , maybe I will {disfmarker} let 's start b let 's start on number two actually on the notation , um , because that 's , I 'm thinking , possibly alittle more familiar to , um {disfmarker} to people . OK , so the top block is just sort of a {disfmarker} sort of abstract nota it 's sort of like , um , listings of the kinds of things that we can have . And certain things thathave , um , changed , have changed back to this . There {disfmarker} there 's been a little bit of , um , going back and forth . But basically obviously all constructions have some kind of name . I forgot to include thatyou could have a type included in this line .Professor C: What I was gonna {disfmarker} Right .Grad F: So something like , um {disfmarker} Well , there 's an example {disfmarker} the textual example at the end hasclausal construction . So , um , just to show it doesn't have to be beautiful It could be , you know , simple old text as well . Um , there are a couple of {disfmarker} Uh , these three have various ways of doing certainthings . So I 'll just try to go through them . So they could all have a type at the beginning . Um , and then they say the key word constructionProfessor C: Oh , I see .Grad F: and they have some name .Professor C: So{disfmarker} so the current syntax is if it s if there 's a type it 's before constructGrad F: Yeah , right .Professor C: OK , that 's fine .Grad F: OK , and then it has a block that is constituents . And as usual I guess all theconstructions her all the examples here have only , um , tsk {comment} one type of constituent , that is a constructional constituent . I think that 's actually gonna turn out to m be certainly the most common kind . Butin general instead of the word \" construct \" , th here you might have \" meaning \" or \" form \" as well . OK ? So if there 's some element that doesn't {disfmarker} that isn't yet constructional in the sense that it mapsform and meaning . OK , um , the main change with the constructs which {disfmarker} each of which has , um , the key word \" construct \" and then some name , and then some type specification , is that it 's{disfmarker} it 's pro it 's often {disfmarker} sometimes the case in the first case here that you know what kind of construction it is . So for example whatever I have here is gonna be a form of the word \" throw \" , or it's gonna be a form of the word , you know , I don't know , \" happy \" , or something like that . Or , you know , some it 'll be a specific word or maybe you 'll have the type . You 'll say \" I need a p uh spatial relationphrase here \" or \" I need a directional specifier here \" . So - uh you could have a j a actual type here . Um , or you could just say in the second case that you only know the meaning type . So a very common example ofthis is that , you know , in directed motion , the first person to do something should be an agent of some kind , often a human . Right ? So if I {disfmarker} you know , the um , uh , run down the street then I{disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I run down the street , it 's typed , uh , \" I \" , meaning category is what 's there . The {disfmarker} the new kind is this one that is sort of a pair and , um , sort of skipping fonts andwhatever . The idea is that sometimes there are , um , general constructions that you know , that you 're going to need . It 's {disfmarker} it 's the equivalent of a noun phrase or a prepositional phrase , or somethinglike that there .Grad E: Mm - hmm .Grad F: And usually it has formal um , considerations that will go along with it .Professor C: Mm - hmm .Grad F: And then uh , you might know something much more specificdepending on what construction you 're talking about , about what meaning {disfmarker} what specific meaning you want . So the example again at the bottom , which is directed motion , you might need a nominalexpression to take the place of , you know , um , \" the big th \" , you you know , \" the big {disfmarker} the tall dark man \" , you know , \" walked into the room \" .Grad E: Mm - hmm .Grad F: But because of the nature ofthis particular construction you know not just that it 's nominal of some kind but in particular , that it 's some kind of animate nominal , and which will apply just as well to like , you know , a per you know , a simpleproper noun or to some complicated expression . Um , so I don't know if the syntax will hold but something that gives you a way to do both constructional and meaning types . So . OK , then I don't think the ,{comment} um {disfmarker} at least {disfmarker} Yeah . {comment} None of these examples have anything different for formal constraints ? But you can refer to any of the , um , sort of available elements and scope, right ? which here are the constructs , {comment} to say something about the relation . And I think i if you not if you compare like the top block and the textual block , um , we dropped like the little F subscript . The Fsubscripts refer to the \" form \" piece of the construct .Professor C: Good .Grad F: And I think that , um , in general it 'll be unambiguous . Like if you were giving a formal constraint then you 're referring to the formalpole of that . So {disfmarker} so by saying {disfmarker} if I just said \" Name one \" then that means name one formal and we 're talking about formal struc {comment} Which {disfmarker} which makes sense . Uh ,there are certain times when we 'll have an exception to that , in which case you could just indicate \" here I mean the meaningful for some reason \" . Right ? Or {disfmarker} Actually it 's more often that , only to handlethis one special case of , you know , \" George and Jerry walk into the room in that order \" .Grad E: Mm - hmm .Grad F: So we have a few funny things where something in the meaning might refer to something in theform . But {disfmarker} but s we 're not gonna really worry about that for right now and there are way We can be more specific if we have to later on . OK , and so in terms of the {disfmarker} the relations , you know ,as usual they 're before and ends . I should have put an example in of something that isn't an interval relation but in form you might also have a value binding . You know , you could say that , um , you know , \" name -one dot \" , t you know , \" number equals \" , you know , a plural or something like that .Grad E: Mm - hmm .Grad F: There are certain things that are attribute - value , similar to the bindings below but I mean they 'rejust {disfmarker} us usually they 're going to be value {disfmarker} value fillers , right ? OK , and then again semantic constraints here are just {disfmarker} are just bindings . There was talk of changing the name ofthat . And Johno and I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} you {disfmarker} you and I can like fight about that if you like ? but about changing it to \" semantic {pause} n effects \" , which I thought was a little bit too order -biasedGrad B: Well {disfmarker} ThGrad F: and \" semantic bindings \" , which I thought might be too restrictive in case we don't have only bindings . And so it was an issue whether constraints {disfmarker} um , therewere some linguists who reacted against \" constraints \" , saying , \" oh , if it 's not used for matching , then it shouldn't be called a constraint \" . But I think we want to be uncommitted about whether it 's used formatching or not . Right ? Cuz there are {disfmarker} I think we thought of some situations where it would be useful to use whatever the c bindings are , for actual , you know , sort of like modified constraining purposes.Professor C: Well , you definitely want to de - couple the formalism from the parsing strategy . So that whether or not it 's used for matching or only for verification , I {disfmarker}Grad E: Yeah .Grad F: Yeah , yeah .It 's used shouldn't matter , right ? Mm - hmm .Professor C: s For sure . I mean , I don't know what , uh , term we want to useGrad F: Mm - hmm .Professor C: but we don't want to {disfmarker}Grad F: Yeah , uh ,there was one time when {disfmarker} when Hans explained why \" constraints \" was a misleading word for him .Professor C: Yep .Grad F: And I think the reason that he gave was similar to the reason why Johnothought it was a misleading term , which was just an interesting coincidence . Um , but , uh {disfmarker} And so I was like , \" OK , well both of you don't like it ?Professor C: It 's g it 's gone .Grad F: Fine , we canchange it \" . But I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I 'm starting to like it again .Grad B: But {disfmarker}Grad F: So that that 's why {disfmarker} {comment} That 's why I 'll stick with it .Grad A: Well , you know what?Grad F: So {disfmarker}Grad A: If you have an \" if - then \" phrase , do you know what the \" then \" phrase is called ?Professor C: ThGrad F: What ? Con - uh , a consequent ?Grad A: Yeah .Grad F: Yeah , but it 's notan \" if - then \" .Grad A: No , but {disfmarker}Professor C: I know . Anyway , so the other {disfmarker} the other strategy you guys could consider is when you don't know what word to put , you could put no word,Grad F: Mm - hmm .Professor C: just meaning . OK ? And the then let {disfmarker}Grad E: Yeah .Grad F: Yeah , that 's true .Grad B: So that 's why you put semantic constraints up top and meaning bindings down{disfmarker} down here ?Grad F: Oh , oops ! No . That was just a mistake of cut and paste from when I was going with it .Grad B: OK .Professor C: OK .Grad F: So , I 'm sorry . I didn't mean {disfmarker} that one 'san in unintentional .Grad B: So this should be semantic and {disfmarker}Grad F: Sometimes I 'm intentionally inconsistentGrad B: Grad F: cuz I 'm not sure yet . Here , I actually {disfmarker} it was just a mistake.Grad B: Th - so this definitely should be \" semantic constraints \" down at the bottom ?Grad E: Sure .Grad F: Yeah .Grad B: OK .Grad F: Well , unless I go with \" meaning \" but i I mean , I kind of like \" meaning \" betterthan \" semantic \"Grad B: Or {disfmarker}Professor C: Oh , whatever .Grad F: but I think there 's {pause} vestiges of other people 's biases .Professor C: Or {disfmarker} wh That - bGrad F: Like {disfmarker}ProfessorC: Right . Minor {disfmarker} min problem {disfmarker}Grad F: Minor point .Professor C: OK .Grad E: Extremely .Grad F: OK , um , so I think the middle block doesn't really give you any more information , ex than thetop block . And the bottom block similarly only just illus you know , all it does is illustrate that you can drop the subscripts and {disfmarker} and that you can drop the , um {disfmarker} uh , that you can give dualtypes . Oh , one thing I should mention is about \" designates \" . I think I 'm actually inconsistent across these as well . So , um , strike out the M subscript on the middle block .Professor C: Mm - hmm .Grad F: Sobasically now , um , this is actually {disfmarker} this little change actually goes along with a big linguistic change , which is that \" designates \" isn't only something for the semantics to worry about now .Professor C:Good .Grad F: So we want s \" designates \" to actually know one of the constituents which acts like a head in some respects but is sort of , um , really important for say composition later on . So for instance , if someother construction says , you know , \" are you of type {disfmarker} is this part of type whatever \" , um , the \" designates \" tells you which sort of part is the meaning part . OK , so if you have like \" the big red ball \" ,you know , you wanna know if there 's an object or a noun . Well , ball is going to be the designated sort of element of that kind of phrase .Grad E: Mmm .Grad F: Um , there is a slight complication here which is thatwhen we talk about form it 's useful sometimes to talk about , um {disfmarker} to talk about there also being a designated object and we think that that 'll be the same one , right ? So the ball is the head of the phrase, \" the r the {disfmarker} \" , um , \" big red ball \" , and the entity denoted by the word \" ball \" is sort of the semantic head in some ways of {disfmarker} of this sort of , um , in interesting larger element .Professor C: Aa and the {disfmarker} Yeah . And there 's {disfmarker} uh there 's ca some cases where the grammar depends on some form property of the head . And {disfmarker} and this enables you to get that , if I understandyou right .Grad E: Yeah .Grad F: Mm - hmm .Grad E: Yeah .Grad F: Right , right .Grad E: That 's the idea .Professor C: Yeah yeah .Grad E: Yeah .Grad F: And , uh , you might be able to say things like if the head has togo last in a head - final language , you can refer to the head as a p the , you know {disfmarker} the formal head as opposed to the rest of the form having to be at the end of that decision .Professor C: Right .Grad F: Sothat 's a useful thing so that you can get some internal structural constraints in .Professor C: OK , so that all looks good . Let me {disfmarker} Oh , w Oh . I don't know . Were you finished ?Grad F: Um , there was a listof things that isn't included but you {disfmarker} you can {disfmarker} you can ask a question . That might @ @ it .Professor C: OK . So , i if I understand this the {disfmarker} aside from , uh , construed and all thatsort of stuff , the {disfmarker} the differences are mainly that , {vocalsound} we 've gone to the possibility of having form - meaning pairs for a typeGrad F: Mm - hmm .Professor C: or actually gone back to ,Grad F:Right .Professor C: if we go back far enough {disfmarker}Grad F: Well , except for their construction meaning , so it 's not clear that , uh {disfmarker} Well , right now it 's a c uh contr construction type and meaningtype . So I don't know what a form type is .Professor C: Oh , I see . Yeah , yeah , yeah . I 'm sorry , you 're right .Grad F: Yeah .Professor C: A construction type . Uh , that 's fine . But it , um {disfmarker}Grad F: Right. A well , and a previous , um , you know , version of the notation certainly allowed you to single out the meaning bit by it . So you could say \" construct of type whatever designates something \" .Professor C: Yeah.Grad F: But that was mostly for reference purposes , just to refer to the meaning pole . I don't think that it was often used to give an extra meaning const type constraint on the meaning , which is really what we wantmost of the time I think .Professor C: Mm - hmm .Grad F: Um , I {disfmarker} I don't know if we 'll ever have a case where we actually h if there is a form category constraint , you could imagine having a triple therethat says , you know {disfmarker} that 's kind of weird .Professor C: No , no , no , I don't think so . I think that you 'll {disfmarker} you 'll do fine .Grad E: I {disfmarker}Professor C: In fact , these are , um , as long as{disfmarker} as Mark isn't around , these are form constraints . So a nominal expression is {disfmarker} uh , the fact that it 's animate , is semantic . The fact that it 's n uh , a nominal expression I would say on mostpeople 's notion of {disfmarker} of f you know , higher form types , this i this is one .Grad F: Mm - hmm .Grad E: Yeah .Grad F: Right , right .Professor C: And I think that 's just fine .Grad E: Yeah , yeah .Grad F: Whichis fine , yeah .Professor C: Yeah .Grad E: It 's {disfmarker} that now , um , I 'm mentioned this , I {disfmarker} I don't know if I ever explained this but the point of , um , I mentioned in the last meeting , {comment}the point of having something called \" nominal expression \" is , um , because it seems like having the verb subcategorize for , you know , like say taking as its object just some expression which , um , designates anobject or designates a thing , or whatever , um , that leads to some syntactic problems basically ? So you wanna , you know {disfmarker} you sort of have this problem like \" OK , well , I 'll put the word \" , uh , let 'ssay , the word \" dog \" , you know . And that has to come right after the verbGrad F: Mm - hmm .Grad E: cuz we know verb meets its object . And then we have a construction that says , oh , you can have \" the \"preceding a noun . And so you 'd have this sort of problem that the verb has to meet the designatum .Professor C: Right .Grad E: And you could get , you know , \" the kicked dog \" or something like that , meaning \"kicked the dog \" .Professor C: Right .Grad E: Um , so you kind of have to let this phrase idea in thereProfessor C: That I {disfmarker} I have no problem with it at all .Grad E: but {disfmarker} It - itProfessor C: I thinkit 's fine .Grad E: Yeah .Grad F: Yeah . Right , n s you may be {disfmarker} you may not be like everyone else in {disfmarker} in Berkeley ,Grad E: Yeah . Yeah .Grad F: but that 's OK .Grad E: I mean , we {disfmarker}we {disfmarker} we sort of thought we were getting away with , uh {disfmarker} with , a pGrad F: Uh , we don't mind either , so {disfmarker}Grad E: I mean , this is not reverting to the X - bar theory of {disfmarker}of phrase structure .Professor C: Right .Grad E: But , uh ,Grad F: Right .Grad E: I just know that this is {disfmarker} Like , we didn't originally have in mind that , uh {disfmarker} that verbs would subcategorize for aparticular sort of form .Grad F: Mm - hmm .Professor C: But they do .Grad E: Um , but they does .Grad F: Well , there 's an alternative to thisGrad E: At least in English .Grad F: which is , um {disfmarker} The questionwas did we want directed motion ,Professor C: Yeah .Grad F: which is an argument structure construction {disfmarker}Professor C: Mm - hmm .Grad E: Yeah .Grad F: did we want it to worry about , um , anything morethan the fact that it , you know , has semantic {disfmarker} You know , it 's sort of frame - based construction . So one option that , you know , Keith had mentioned also was like , well if you have more abstractconstructions such as subject , predicate , basically things like grammatical relations ,Grad E: Mm - hmm .Grad F: those could intersect with these in such a way that subject , predicate , or subject , predicate , subject ,verb , ob you know , verb object would require that those things that f fill a subject and object are NOM expressions .Professor C: Right .Grad F: And that would be a little bit cleaner in some way . But you know , fornow , I mean ,Professor C: Yeah . But it {disfmarker} y y it 's {disfmarker} yeah , just moving it {disfmarker} moving the c the cons the constraints around .Grad F: uh , you know . M moving it to another place , right.Grad E: Yeah .Professor C: OK , so that 's {disfmarker}Grad F: But there does {disfmarker} basically , the point is there has to be that constraint somewhere , right ?Professor C: Right .Grad F: So , yeah .Professor C:And so that was the {disfmarker}Grad F: Robert 's not happy now ?Grad A: No !Grad F: Oh , OK .Professor C: OK , and sort of going with that is that the designatum also now is a pair .Grad F: Yes .Professor C: Insteadof just the meaning .Grad F: Mm - hmm .Professor C: And that aside from some terminology , that 's basically it .Grad F: Right .Professor C: I just want to b I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm asking .Grad E: Mm - hmm .Grad F:Yep .Grad E: Yeah .Grad F: Yeah , um , the un sort of the un - addressed questions in this , um , definitely would for instance be semantic constraints we talked about .Professor C: Yeah .Grad F: Here are just bindingsbut , right ? we might want to introduce mental spaces {disfmarker} You know , there 's all these things that we don't {disfmarker}Professor C: The whole {disfmarker} the mental space thing is clearly not here .GradF: Right ? So there 's going to be some extra {disfmarker} you know , definitely other notation we 'll need for that which we skip for now .Grad E: Mm - hmm .Professor C: By the way , I do want to get on that as soon"}
{"doc_id":"doc_195","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Okay , good morning . This is our first team meeting .User Interface: Good day .Marketing: Morning .Industrial Designer: Morning .Project Manager: I'll be your Project Manager for today , for thisproject . My name is Mark {gap} will be giving this presentation for you to kick the project off . {vocalsound} That's my uh that's the agenda for today . Well , of course we're new to each other , so I'd like to getacquainted first . So let's do that first , I mean {disfmarker} Let's start with you , can you introduce yourself ? You're our Marketing Expert .Marketing: Yes . {vocalsound} Um my name is Dirk , Dirk Meinfeld . Um I willbe uh {gap} Pr Project {disfmarker} the Marketing Expert . And I will see what the user wants and uh what we can do uh with the new produ project {disfmarker} product . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay ,excellent . And you are User Interface {disfmarker}User Interface: Nick Broer ,Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: User Interface Designer . I'm going to uh look at the technical design from the uh user point of view.Project Manager: Excellent . Okay .Industrial Designer: My name is Xavier Juergens , I'm the Industrial Designer , and there are three main questions that I have to find an answer to today . First one is uh whathappens inside the apparatus , second is what is uh the apparatus made of ,Marketing: Hmm .Industrial Designer: and the third is what should it look like .Project Manager: What should it look like ? Okay .Marketing:Hmm .Project Manager: Oh , let's kick it off . Oh , there we go . So , our new project is about {disfmarker} we need design a remote control for television set , so , which has to be original , trendy and user-friendly . Itook this off our corporate website . {disfmarker} I think well it sums up what we need to do . It's We're inspired by latest fashion , not only electronics , but also the latest trends in clothes and interior design . That'swhy our product will always fit in your home . So apparently we need to {vocalsound} um be very at um very open to what's currently hot in the market . So that's what you need to do to bring us the latest info andwhat people want .Marketing: Yeah . Yeah .Project Manager: So {disfmarker} So we put the fashion in electronics . So that's what we need to go for . Anyway , we'll take this project in three steps , three pha uh threephase of design . First step will be the functional design .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: And that's basically what we're gonna do . Everybody has uh a piece of individual work and a meeting afterwards , so we canshare information about {disfmarker} So I'm gonna keep this short , since we had a technical problem . So skip through this . Uh . Okay . Every meeting we {disfmarker} everybody can present their uh their views andeverything , so to help with these , you have {disfmarker} we have the SMARTboards here . We can use a regular PowerPoint presentation . I'm supposed to give you an introduction on this doodling board , so it's{disfmarker} actually it's very easy . Like it says , very simple , you just take out the pen . Like you see here , I'll just take the {disfmarker} take {gap} here . That's it , you just put it on the board . You see a pen here. You go here , just like using a pen . You can just draw whatever you want . It's like the eraser , can erase whatever you want . And so it will be easy just to illustrate your views , if you wanna change the format , youjust {vocalsound} either take out jus just like the pen , and whatever you want , your current colour , your line width , just to make the line bigger . So it should be really easy .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: This isto take the {disfmarker} just take a new slide and back again . We're just gonna keep using this board all the time , so I think it will be {disfmarker} it's very clear for everyone , I suppose . So I'll take this out .{vocalsound} Okay . We'll use that later . Anyway . Yeah , just just just stuff that you wanna share , just put it in the in the project folder , like I put my presentation now . I'll put the the minutes of every meeting , I'llput them there too , so everybody can read up if they have to leave early or whatever . So next , been here . {vocalsound} Well , {gap} gonna give the electronic white-board uh a shot . So basic idea is we have ablank sheet . Just try whatever you want , and like it says , draw your favourite animal . I think the creative genius should go first . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} The creative genius ?Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Thank you very much .Project Manager: So , draw us your favourite animal .User Interface: {vocalsound} Well , I'm more into the technical aspects of drawing,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: so I'm not really good at drawing animals ,Project Manager: Draw us a technical animal .User Interface: but uh the animal which I {gap} {disfmarker} Oh .ProjectManager: Yeah , it's still erasing .User Interface: {vocalsound} Pen .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh format . Else my animal will be like king-size . I pretty much like {vocalsound} a dolphin , because of itsuh its freedom basically . Let's see . A head . {gap} actually worked with this . It's like uh it's a very {disfmarker} Uh high-tech .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface:Bit low-responsive though .Project Manager: {vocalsound} So that's what we don't want .User Interface: Prefer pen and paper .Project Manager: We want a high-responsive product . So {disfmarker} It looks more likenuclear bomb .Marketing: {vocalsound} Very nice dolphin .User Interface: It {vocalsound} {vocalsound} doesn't look like a nuclear bomb .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager:{vocalsound}User Interface: This thing isn't doing what I'm {disfmarker} What I want .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Let's go easy on it .User Interface: So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Yeah , well it doeslook like a nuclear bomb .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: I'll just finish up real soon , because I'm {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: So it doesn't really looklike a dolphin ,Project Manager: {vocalsound} Anyway ,User Interface: but then again , this is all new for me .Project Manager: it should {disfmarker} It {disfmarker} It's supposed to be a dolphin , you like the freedomthat it {disfmarker} that it represents .Industrial Designer: Uh-huh .User Interface: Like the ocean , like swimming . Do that in my spare time , so that's basically an {disfmarker}Project Manager: What do you like ?Okay . Well ,User Interface: Now we can forget this ever happened .Project Manager: our Marketing Expert . Show us an animal .Marketing: Um an animal .Project Manager: {gap} Pick a {disfmarker} pick a{disfmarker}Marketing: I like the elephant . {vocalsound}Project Manager: pick a clean sheet . Oh . Take a clean sheet first .Marketing: What ? Yeah . Um {disfmarker}Project Manager: Just press next . That's it.Marketing: Oh yeah . Oh , a blank . Okay , next . Free , I like the elephant . It's big , it's strong , so uh uh {disfmarker} Oh , it's a little bit {disfmarker}User Interface: It's not really that responsive , no .{vocalsound}Marketing: You have to hold it , right ?Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: Hmm .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {gap} It's a beautiful animal .Project Manager:{vocalsound}Marketing: Oh , you have to p press it pretty hard . With a smile on it ,Project Manager: {vocalsound} It's a cute elephant .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: it's very important . Yeah .ProjectManager: {vocalsound}Marketing: And uh not to forget its tail . Oh .Project Manager: It's a nice beard .Marketing: Yeah , it's okay . Yes . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: And you wasmaking comments on my dolphin . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I will beat the dolphin . {vocalsound} No .Project Manager: Okay , so it's just a bee .Marketing: Yeah .ProjectManager: So I suggest you make us the elephant in the market . The big and strong player in the market . This would be good .Marketing: Yeah . Yeah .Project Manager: Okay , excellent . On to the next one .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound} Okay .Marketing: Uh yeah .Industrial Designer: Okay , you should press next .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: Press next . Yeah , it's up there .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound} Okay .Project Manager: That's it .Industrial Designer: Okay , well the animal I'd like to draw is a tiger .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: You picked a hard one , didn't you ?{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: My drawing skills are really bad , so .Marketing: Experience with the tiger .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: What ? They are {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: They are reallybad , my drawing skills .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay uh-huh .Project Manager: Sure looks smooth .Marketing: Oh .Industrial Designer: I'm not sure how the legs should go , but {disfmarker}ProjectManager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Uh these are stripes .User Interface: Got it . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I've picked this animal because it's very fast . It is uh it knows exactly what it wants . Uh ithardly ever wastes any resources .Project Manager: What does it want ?Industrial Designer: Uh well , basically uh it hunts for prey , but it does it always in a very well-thought way . Uh it knows exactly what it wants .It never kills an animal uh just for the killing , so it's very efficient . And it tries to do everything as fast as possible .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: And it always goes for uh security , in seeking uh uh ahide spot and uh and doing everything ,Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: security , speed and efficiency is important . And I think uh those things we can use .Project Manager: I agree .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: , I'm supposed to draw the animal next . Yay I introduce to the world the amazing ant .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Uh hard worker .ProjectManager: Great team-workers .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Do everything to Uh really small , but together they're really strong . So I'm gonna give it asmiley face .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Oh .Marketing: Yeah , yeah .Project Manager: Not sure where the p {gap} . Just put 'em here . Whatever . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Thinkit need shoes . So {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} I'm just too lazy to draw it all black , so {disfmarker} {vocalsound} That's the coolest ant ever .User Interface: You've done thisbefore , haven't you ? {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I love to draw ants . It's my hobby .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Anyway {disfmarker} Nah . {vocalsound} Just{disfmarker} I think it's very representative what we drew , I guess . Like you take {disfmarker} just take your freedom and use a a trendy interface that you design for us .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Just{disfmarker} Yeah . You're supposed to make i make it different from uh from what other people have , and just make it a little distinct . Anyway . {gap} another beep to stop the meeting . See . Warning . Finishmeeting now . Uh put this down . Examples . Well I guess we have a little little time extra , but {disfmarker} Just a little quick discussion to to open open our work . So what do you guys think about {disfmarker} Thefirst idea is just very short . I'll start with you . What are y What are your first ideas for the new product ? What {disfmarker}User Interface: Well , I basically had a question . Do {vocalsound} uh {disfmarker} Are wegoing to introduce a multi remote control ? Is it just the T_V_ or do we want to inProject Manager: The project I got was just for a T_V_ remote control .Marketing: Uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker}User Interface: Just forT_V_ remote control .Project Manager: Yeah , I guess so .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: Okay . Well , I was thinking about design remote control , with our uh motto and all .Marketing: But {disfmarker}UserInterface: Uh thing to keep in mind is that we need to stick to what people are familiar with .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: No rational changes or whatever , 'cause it {disfmarker} revolutionary changes ,ProjectManager: Okay , so very intuitive design , I guess .User Interface: yes . {vocalsound} Uh we might have to consider other design aspects of our product . So that was something I wanted to add ,Project Manager:{gap}User Interface: and perhaps some usability aspect . T_V_ is becoming central in most homes . Do we want people who are disabled in any way to uh , yeah , to be able to use it as well ?Project Manager: Yeah ,we want {disfmarker} I suppose we want almost everyone to be using it . So {vocalsound} I think {disfmarker} I mean , really disabled people , yeah , {vocalsound} might be a problem , but I think it's a little {gap}take it into consideration . Um yeah . I think we really need to cut the meeting short . You have anything you wanna share quickly ?Industrial Designer: Hmm .Marketing: Uh .Industrial Designer: Only one thing uh thathas to be added according to me is uh the the material it is made of , it should be something light .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: That's {disfmarker} it speaks for itself ,Project Manager: It should be light ,okay .Industrial Designer: but some uh {disfmarker} Yeah .Project Manager: Um , let's see ,Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: where did I {disfmarker} Let's skip that . Oh , this is it . Sorry , I skipped this sheet.Marketing: Selling price .Project Manager: What do we {disfmarker} This {disfmarker} Quick {gap} {disfmarker} What we're going to {disfmarker} Selling price , twenty five Euros . That's for you . The productionprice , twelve and a half Euros , approximately .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay .Project Manager: Just go go for that . We'll reach the uh reach that profit .Industrial Designer: Okay .User Interface: Okay , wellthat's not that much to work with . {vocalsound}Marketing: {gap} international .Project Manager: No , it's not much to work on . I'm sorry , I skipped it . {vocalsound} Anyways , that's {disfmarker} Yeah , this is it .Do you have anything you you came up with yet ? About uh marketing transfer , whatever ?Marketing: Um about what ? Marketing ?Project Manager: Marketing {gap} I'm not sure what you what you came up with yet. You have anything to share ? Or else we'll cut the meeting just cut the meeting shortMarketing: {vocalsound} Um no , not really yet ,Project Manager: since we're supposed to stop .Marketing: but I've someideasProject Manager: Okay .Marketing: and I will uh say it uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Anyways , the the personal coach will give you the your p your personal assignments and everything . So we'll just meetback in here thirty minutes .Industrial Designer: Okay .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: I'm sure we have that .Industrial Designer: Good luck everyone .Project Manager: Yeah , thanks for attending .User Interface:Mm , good luck .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I'll see you back here in thirty minutes .Marketing: Okay . Yes .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}"}
{"doc_id":"doc_196","qid":"","text":"Project Manager: Okay . Hi everybody and welcome to our kick-off meeting um for our new product that we're gonna be designing . Um I'm Mandy and I'm the Project Manager . And I know all your names again ,Courtney , Fenella and Amber .Marketing: Yep .Project Manager: Alright . Okay ,Industrial Designer: Yep .Project Manager: so first let's go through this PowerPoint . I wonder what button I press ?User Interface: Just doit on the {gap} arrow .Industrial Designer: {gap}Project Manager: Yeah , or how about I just click ? Okay , here is our agenda for this meeting . Um we're gonna start with our opening which was our introductions .{vocalsound} We're gonna get to know each other a little bit better . Um tool training , we're going to , I guess , figure out what to do on this project with our individual roles . Um we're gonna make a project plan andthen have some time for discussion and close up the meeting . Okay , here is our project . We're gonna make a new remote control that's um original , trendy and also user-friendly . And how we are going to do it iseach of us is going to um {disfmarker} We're gonna have {disfmarker} discuss the functional design first , {vocalsound} how is it gonna be used , what's the actual goal here , it has to operate T_V_ , blah blah blah .And we're going to do individual work on that and then meet . Same thing with conceptual design . Just the basic overview of the project and then we're going to do individual work , meet . That's pretty much the thewhole process for today . And then the detailed design , just more in-depth , get the actual schematics of the remote . Okay . Alright . First we're gonna start off by using our tools . And the whiteboard thing , do youguys wanna give that a try even though the ink wasn't working or do you wanna do it on here .Industrial Designer: I think we should forgo the whiteboard since we can't actually see what we're writing .Marketing: Wecould {disfmarker} Yeah , we could on here .Project Manager: Alright , let's go forward then .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um right now so we're all gonna draw our favourite animal and then sum upour favourite characteristics of that animal . Even if you are not a good drawer like me .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Alright .Industrial Designer: Artistic skills , nil .User Interface: Fine.Project Manager: Um .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Oh , thanks . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Bless you .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I draw like I'm in grade five .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Oh do I .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} 'Kay , about one more minute .{vocalsound} Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay . And who would like to start us off ?Marketing: I'll go .Project Manager: Alright .Marketing: {vocalsound} Um this is my picture . I drew fish{disfmarker} {vocalsound} I like fish , because uh , you know , their whole water-vascular system thing .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: It's pretty cool , and um they've got a pretty good habitat and they arepretty sometimes , sometimes vicious but that's okay .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Only if they're piranhas .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah , they they're easy , you know .ProjectManager: Alright .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Who wants to go next ?Industrial Designer: I'll go .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I drew a kitty . It's pretty much impossible to tell that's a cat ,but I love cats .Marketing: No I I see it .Project Manager: No , it looks like a cat .User Interface: No , I kne I knew .Marketing: Yeah , it does look like a cat .Industrial Designer: I love cats because they're independent ,uh they pretty much know what they want , they get it , they move on . {vocalsound}Project Manager: I love cats , too . I'm a cat person .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: I'm allergic to cats .Project Manager: Uh.Industrial Designer: I'm allergic to cats , too . {vocalsound}User Interface: Ah .Marketing: {vocalsound} Oh , okay . {vocalsound}Project Manager: If you're around one {disfmarker}User Interface: In my next life.Project Manager: I had a roommate who was um allergic , but if she was around my cat forever she became used to it , you know ,Marketing: Yeah , yeah , if you're around them for a long period of time{disfmarker}Project Manager: it's weird . Okay . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I still can't sleep with them in my room .Marketing: Oh , yeah , this summer I , oh I had to live with cats . It was crazy .ProjectManager: Okay , Fenella ?Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: Um , I drew a badger . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Badger . Good choice .Industrial Designer: Yay .Marketing: Cool . {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound} Well , yeah .Project Manager: Why a badger ?User Interface: {vocalsound} Uh I dunno , they're grumpy and nocturnal and {vocalsound} {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Are you trying to suggest something ?Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Well , a little bit like the {disfmarker} Yes . Um . {vocalsound} And then , if you know Wind in the Willows {gap} badger .Marketing:Oh , okay .User Interface: Yeah and then uh I don't know if you know Brian {gap} . He's Liverpudlian writer .Project Manager: Alright .User Interface: Um {gap} , that kind of books . Badgers are cool in that one too .{vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay . And I'm last . 'Kay . Look at my sad sad giraffe .Marketing: No , that's good .Project Manager: No , no , no , it ends up looking like some kind of a dinosaur , but whatever . I don'tknow even much about giraffes , but I just love the way they look . They're just such odd creatures , you know . I I like that they're so unique and individual , I guess . I don't know much about their behaviour oranything , though . Only seen a couple in zoos .Marketing: You don't really have to , I mean , if you like 'em {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah , but you can appreciate the way they look . Okay . Alright . Guess we'regetting straight back into business here .User Interface: {gap}Project Manager: Um the selling price for our remote is going to be twenty-five Euro , and our profit aim is fifty million Euro . We're going to make this aninternational product marketed in the States , in Europe , in Asia . And um our production cost to make that profit is gonna be a max of twelve fifty Euro per remote . Okay . So we're gonna talk for a little while . Umhere are some topics that we might be able to discuss . Expe our experiences with remote controls um , our first ideas about this new remote , anything that you can bring to the table for this project . So .UserInterface: Now ?Project Manager: Yeah . You wanna start us off ? Anybody have anything to offer ?User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Well , we wanna make a multifunctional remote , right ?ProjectManager: Right .Industrial Designer: One remote for everything .User Interface: And everything being {disfmarker} Wait , we have what , sound system , T_V_ , D_V_D_ , V_H_S_ , uh TiVo ?Marketing: Right.Industrial Designer: Um . I think they'll be phasing V_H_S_ out shortly .Marketing: Yeah , TiVo .Project Manager: TiVo .User Interface: But it's still there , soIndustrial Designer: Okay .User Interface: if po if we'regonna do it {disfmarker}Marketing: It needs to be compatible 'cause universal remote controls are never universal .Project Manager: They're never universal . That's right . Esp e especially if you buy a a not big product, D_V_D_ player , say , usually it doesn't work if it's not one of the {disfmarker}User Interface: Or if it's not like a Sony , if it's like a {disfmarker} I don't know .Project Manager: Yeah . Yeah . Something from Sam'sclub .Industrial Designer: So we'll have to figure it how to cover all the different variances in signals .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: And what we need an insanely good instruction booklet , because you alwayshave to reconfigure all your contraptions to go with the remote anyways .Project Manager: Yeah . 'Kay , and um another thing that I think is important is the d the design of the product , how it feels in your hand . If it'sjust flat and kind of boring th those don't {disfmarker} Nobody wants to buy those any more . They want the ergonomic ones .Marketing: They want like the flashy lights .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Oh like thiscame from Las Vegas .Project Manager: Ones that ones that look high-tech , too .User Interface: But at the same time are simple .Project Manager: Right .Marketing: Mm yeah .Project Manager: So that people like mymother can use it .Industrial Designer: What about something with the curvature like that matches the curvature of a hand ?Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: 'Kay . Anybody haveany experiences with remote controls that they can remember that {disfmarker}User Interface: Just bad ones . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah {gap} . {vocalsound} That's true .User Interface: Um .IndustrialDesigner: What kinda battery would we want to use ? Because battery changing is usually {disfmarker}User Interface: D Double A_ .Marketing: Double A_ .Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: Do some of themuse triple A_s though ?Marketing: Yeah some use triple A_s .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Some but {disfmarker}Marketing: So double or triple ?User Interface: Yeah , I guess then it's {disfmarker} If weneed to do triple A_ we can , but most people usually have double A_s around .Project Manager: Okay . Yeah . But that has to do with the size of it too . Well , w as long as we know that issue is {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: Yeah .User Interface: Right .Project Manager: Here we can {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah , if we want it to be more thin , then we'd probably wanna go with a triple A_ .Project Manager: Triple A . ButIndustrialDesigner: Can you {gap} with a small lithium battery ?Project Manager: it's okay , we don't have to decide about it now , just as long as we remember battery type and size is important .User Interface:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Hey . Anything else ? Alright . Moving along . Oh , we're closing the meeting . Next meeting is gonna start in thirty minutes . Here's what we're going to do . Um the I_D_ , which is who ?Okay , you're going to think about the working design . What do you think that means ? {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay . And U_I_D_ , the technical fun functions design ,User Interface:Mm-hmm .Project Manager: making sure it does everything that we need the remote to do , the functionality of it , operating all those different things . Okay . And the marketing person , that's Courtney , is going to dothe user requirements specification . I guess that means specifying um what exactly the user is going to be looking for . Right ? I would think so . Okay .Marketing: Right .Project Manager: And you're gonna get morespecific instructions emailed to you in just a little while . Okay , so does anybody have anything they wanna say before we close the meeting ? Okay . This meeting is officially over ."}