Project Manager: Okay we all all set ? Right . Well this is the uh final detailed design meeting . Um we're gonna discuss the look and feel design , the user interface design , and we're gonna evaluate the product . Andthe end result of this meeting has to be a decision on the details of this remote control , like absolute final decision , um and then I'm gonna have to specify the final design in the final report . So um just from from lasttime to recap , we said we were gonna have a snowman shaped remote control with no L_C_D_ display , no need for talk-back , it was hopefully gonna be kinetic power and battery uh with rubber buttons , maybebacklighting the buttons with some internal L_E_D_s to shine through the casing , um hopefully a jog-dial , and incorporating the slogan somewhere as well . Anything I've missed ?Industrial Designer: No .ProjectManager: Okay um so uh if you want to present your prototype go ahead .User Interface: Uh-oh . This is it ? {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Ninja Homer , made in Japan . {vocalsound}User Interface: Um , there area few changes we've made .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Um , well look at the expense sheet , and uh it turned to be quite a lot expensive to have open up and have lots of buttons and stuff inside ,ProjectManager: Mm . Mm-hmm .User Interface: so instead we've um {disfmarker} this is gonna be an L_C_D_ screen , um just a a very very basic one , very small um with access to the menu through the the scroll wheeland uh confirm um button .Marketing: Mm 'kay .User Interface: Uh , apart from that , it's just pretty much the same as we discussed last time .Industrial Designer: And there isn't uh d it doesn't open up to theadvanced functions ? the advanced functions are still hidden from you , but they're hidden in the sense that um they're not in use .Marketing: Where are they ?Industrial Designer: Um they're in the L_C_D_ panel andthe jog-dial ?Marketing: Ah , right .Industrial Designer: Okay 'cause {disfmarker}Project Manager: So w what kind of thing uh is gonna be {disfmarker}Marketing: Great .User Interface: {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: The L_C_D_ panel just displays um functionally what you're doing . If you're using an advanced function right , like um c brightness , contrast , whatever , it will just say {disfmarker}Marketing: Right . Okay.Industrial Designer: You know it's like it only has four columns , it's a very simple L_C_D_ like , whereas many {disfmarker} the minimum amount we need that the user will automatically know like this is brightness orthis is contrast .Marketing: Right .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Okay cool .Marketing: Right , 'kay .Industrial Designer: It might even be one , a bit more complex L_C_D_ panel with pictures like maybe the sun or the ,you know , the the symbols of the various functions .Marketing: OkayProject Manager: Oh right okay .Marketing: Mm-hmm , and what is this here ?Project Manager: Cool .Industrial Designer: That's a number pad.Marketing: Okay so the number pad is {disfmarker} 'Kay , great .Project Manager: Where are we gonna have the slogan ?Industrial Designer: Um they're al along this {disfmarker}User Interface: You know , just likeright inside there .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay cool .Industrial Designer: You have this space here , and then you have this thing on the side as well , or at the bottom .Project Manager:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: 'Cause slogans are usually quite small , right ,Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: they're not like hugeMarketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: so they're sMarketing: Yep.Industrial Designer: Say a button's aboutProject Manager: Okay .Marketing: Looks good .Industrial Designer: say a button's about this size , right , so you would still have plenty of space for a slogan , say even for that.Marketing: Yep . {vocalsound} Mm-hmm .Project Manager: So if this isn't to scale , what kind of dimensions are you thinking about here ?User Interface: {vocalsound} Well {vocalsound} we want the other buttons tobe big enough to push easily with a fingerProject Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: so we reckon maybe that'll be about the same size as the palm of your hand . {gap}Marketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: Yep sothat would be about a centimetre for a button , so one two three four centimetres . Plus maybe half o fiveMarketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: six seven eight ,Marketing: About nine in total .Project Manager: Six ,seven , eight , nine , ten .Industrial Designer: about yeah nine total .Project Manager: So we're talking about ten centimetres .Marketing: That sounds good . Yeah .Project Manager: That would be good . So tencentimetres in height .Marketing: Yep .Industrial Designer: Nine , ten . Yep .Project Manager: Okay um {vocalsound} .Marketing: That'd be good , in fact a pen is about ten centimetres usually , so that would be{disfmarker} that sounds like a really good size , if you see it there .Project Manager: Yeah . That's great and it's very bright as well . So um okay .Marketing: Mm . Is it possible {disfmarker} uh I'm just gonna bring upthe idea of colours . Is these are these the colours that {disfmarker} of production , or is this just what we had available ?User Interface: Well I'm {disfmarker} We're gonna have again the the sort of the foggy umyellow from last time that lit up when you pushed the button .Marketing: Right .Project Manager: Okay so just {disfmarker}User Interface: Um {disfmarker}Project Manager: could you just list all the things that it doess so I can write them in the report .User Interface: But um {vocalsound} this button um , because it's red it's sort of very prominent , we're gonna use it as uh {disfmarker} it can be the power button if you hold it formaybe two seconds it'll send a stand-by signal .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Excuse me .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Um apart from that it's gonna be used as a confirm button for the L_C_D_screenIndustrial Designer: Sure .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: and you use this as a jog-dial .Project Manager: Okay so that's like an okay button , right .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Oh we'vediscussed how h high it is , but how wide is it ? {vocalsound}User Interface: I don't know . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: How high is it ?Industrial Designer: No as in the height , but what about thewidth ?Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Oh ohUser Interface: Didn't put five centimetres .Project Manager: like depth of the actual thing .Industrial Designer: Do we need five ? I don't think five is {disfmarker}UserInterface: Um .Industrial Designer: be about th three and a half .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Oh is this k to get an idea of scale from your from your thing there okay .User Interface: Something by there.Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah .Marketing: Sure .Project Manager: So you can power on and off , what else can you do ?Marketing: Three and a half .User Interface: Um you can skip straight to a channel using thesebuttons .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Um , were gonna have the volume control here , but um because we've got the the L_C_D_ and the jog-dial we just thought we'd um use that as the volume .ProjectManager: Okay jog-dial for volume . And what else do you do with the jog-dial ?Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Um you can use it for um more advanced functions like contrast , colour and {disfmarker}ProjectManager: Contrast , brightness ,User Interface: Um yeah .Project Manager: yeah , and anything else ?User Interface: Um just whatever else we wanted to include as the advanced functions , um we didn't actually gothrough and specify the {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well of the designers what are they ?User Interface: Uh what can a T_V_ do ?Industrial Designer: Okay things like um brightness , contrast ,Project Manager:Uh-huh .Industrial Designer: um maybe tuning the channels .Project Manager: Okay channel tuning .Industrial Designer: Um .Project Manager: That's a good one .Industrial Designer: What else ? Um the various inputs. Are you having a V_C_R_ , are you having {disfmarker} you know which input do you have ?Marketing: Mm-hmm , mm-hmm .Project Manager: Okay auxiliary inputs .Marketing: Mm-hmm ,Industrial Designer: Um.Marketing: probably colour or sharpness .Industrial Designer: Yep , colour , sharpness . Um a lot of these things will have to be um free and open for users to define them .Project Manager: Sharpness . Okay whatabout uh sound settingsMarketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: ? Uh d can you change any of those at all ?Marketing: Audio .Industrial Designer: Audio , we have like your basic y your base , your mid-range , your highrange .User Interface: Um .Industrial Designer: Um .User Interface: {gap} the the balance hmm .Industrial Designer: Yep , left-right balance , um maybe even pre-programmed sound modes , like um the user coulddetermine like a series of sound modes ,Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: and then what could happen would be um when you click on that then it would go to that setting .Marketing: Mm-hmm .ProjectManager: Okay ,Marketing: Mm 'kay .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: is there anything else at all it can do ? That {disfmarker} 'cause that's that's fine . Just need to know so I can write it down . Okay umright I g I guess that's it , so we can now um {vocalsound} {disfmarker} We can now have a little look at the the Excel sheet and price listing , and see if we need to um if we need to rethink anything at all .UserInterface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: So um for this first part here power-wise , have we got battery ?Industrial Designer: The battery .Project Manager: Do we have kinetic as well ?Industrial Designer: No .ProjectManager: No . Okay ,Industrial Designer: Um .Project Manager: just battery .Industrial Designer: We need an {disfmarker}Project Manager: And that's because of cost restraints is it ?Industrial Designer: Yep .ProjectManager: OkayUser Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah advanced chip .Project Manager: um what about the electronics here ?Industrial Designer: We need an advanced chip I think , yep .Project Manager:Advanced chip .Industrial Designer: Let me just confirm that . Yes I think so . Yep .Project Manager: Okay um the case , what does it mean by single and double , do you know ?User Interface: Um I think single wouldjust be sort of one sort of oval whereas double is this sort of thing .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: So we want double-curved ?Industrial Designer: Yep .Project Manager: Okay . Um .Industrial Designer:Plastic .Project Manager: Is there any rubber at all in the buttons or anyIndustrial Designer: I think we're gonna have to skip the rubber .Project Manager: Okay ,Industrial Designer: Um .Project Manager: um and wewanted special colours didn't we ?Industrial Designer: Yep .Project Manager: So I'll have to put that {disfmarker} Oh no wait we {disfmarker} ho how many colours have we got there ?Industrial Designer: For the caseitself , one colour . It's one special colour .Project Manager: Just one colour , okay .Industrial Designer: 'Cause the case unit itself , the rest of our components go on top of it .Project Manager: Okay so interface-wise , isit this third option we have , the two of them there ?Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: Yes . One and the L_C_ display .Project Manager: Okay and then buttons , we have what , two colours ?Industrial Designer: Howmany {disfmarker}User Interface: Um we have um got some push buttons as well .Marketing: Or even clear .Industrial Designer: We've got push buttons as well .Project Manager: Like uh oh wait so push button andintegrated scroll wheel pushUser Interface: 'Kay .Project Manager: okay .User Interface: So I reckon we've got one button for this thing 'cause it's just one big sheet of rubber .Project Manager: Uh-huh .User Interface:I'm not sure if that counts but {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Okay let's just be safe and put like say four buttons for that one .Project Manager: Okay . Okay .Industrial Designer: Okay um and maybe a special colourfor the buttons , so maybe four again .Project Manager: Four .User Interface: You can see we're we're all very far beyond the {disfmarker}Project Manager: So w why are we arriving at the number four ? Where doesthe number four come from ?Industrial Designer: 'Cause that's one button by its the complexity of twelve buttons .Project Manager: Okay right ,Industrial Designer: So we're just estimating that yeah it would be less.Project Manager: so we're writing down four . {vocalsound} Okay . How about these ? Are we wanting them in {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: No .Project Manager: no they're just {disfmarker}Industrial Designer:Yep .Project Manager: is everything gonna be plastic ?Industrial Designer: Yep .Project Manager: Okay . So we're w w quite far over .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager:Now we're gonna {disfmarker} something's gonna have to go . Um we're at sixteen point eight and {disfmarker}Marketing: Uh how mm-hmm {disfmarker} how are we going to achieve this high-end product if{disfmarker}Project Manager: Well we h something has to go to the tune of two point t three Euro ,Marketing: We only have very sparse {disfmarker}Project Manager: so let me see , what are we {disfmarker} I mean{disfmarker}Marketing: Two point three ? Four point three no ?Project Manager: oh yes sorry , four point three . My maths is all out .User Interface: Well we could take out ones by making it single curved , just fill inthose bits .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: How much would that save us ?Marketing: And then where is the {disfmarker}Project Manager: How much would that save us ?Industrial Designer: That will onlysave you one .User Interface: That is one .Industrial Designer: The other thing could be that um you could take away the L_C_D_ panel and the advanced chip together ,Project Manager: One .Industrial Designer: umbecause when you do something on the T_V_ , the T_V_ responds and reacts as well ,Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: so the user could be looking at the T_V_ and pushing his thing so we may not need to{disfmarker}User Interface: That's fair enough , yeah .Industrial Designer: so when we scroll we need just some way to get the T_V_ to respond ,Marketing: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: which I think is atechnically doable thing so {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay so {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: So w what's our reviewed suggestion ?Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Um take away the L_C_ display ?Industrial Designer: Yep . And the advanced chip goes away as well .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: To be replaced with aIndustrial Designer:Regular chip .Project Manager: regular chip .Industrial Designer: Yep . So what that means is that um {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: {vocalsound} And so we've got pointthree to get rid of . Um and we ha where are the four {disfmarker} the four push buttons are where exactly now ?Industrial Designer: The twelve buttons that you see there {vocalsound} .Project Manager: Twelvebuttons .User Interface: That's um one piece of rubber but it's gonna have twelve button things underneath so {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Functionally you're gonna have to intercept{disfmarker} So four is a good estimate for {disfmarker}Project Manager: Do you think ?Industrial Designer: Yeah , so you can't actually cut {vocalsound} {disfmarker} It's like three times the number of buttons , four, eight , twelve .Project Manager: Like is is that one big button or is it twelve buttons ,Industrial Designer: It {disfmarker} It needs to be more than one big button because if you open up your phone , underneaththere's actually one button underneath , it's just that the panel itself is a single panel .Project Manager: how can it be something in between ?Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Mm . OkayMarketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: well we have point three to get rid of somewhere .Industrial Designer: We just report that it has to be over budget {vocalsound} ,Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:or the colours , you could take away s colours for th for the buttons .Project Manager: No can do .Marketing: Yeah we could just go with um {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah wIndustrial Designer: Normal colouredbuttons .Project Manager: Well do you want colour differentiation here ?Industrial Designer: No that's not the button we're talking about .User Interface: Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: That's {disfmarker}ProjectManager: Oh yeah sorry yeah then . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: the buttons only refer to the pad so {disfmarker}Project Manager: Right so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Should we take that off uh ?ProjectManager: Ah .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Hey it's back to the original .Project Manager: That's it .Marketing: Hmm .Industrial Designer: Um so then these just become normal coloured buttons , sothat might be some some way of cutting the cost .Marketing: Mm-hmm . Mm .Project Manager: Okay , ach that's a shame . {vocalsound} Um right , so take away that completely ? Ah . And now we're under budget .So we do have point five Euro to play with if we wanted .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} So I reckon {disfmarker}Project Manager: Um {disfmarker}Marketing: How about with embossing thelogo , isn't that going to cost us some money ?Project Manager: Doesn't say so . {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah . That's a freebie .User Interface: Reckon that probably counts as a special form for the buttons .IndustrialDesigner: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah that's a good idea . Just one ? Does that mean that one button has a special form or {disfmarker}User Interface: I think {gap} there's just one button soProject Manager: Yeahokay .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: handy {vocalsound} .Project Manager: Well well there we go . So I'm just gonna have to redraw this now . So we're not gonna have the L_C_D_ anymore , andwe'll just gonna have an on t on the T_V_ it'll show you what you're doing , which I think is fair enough , and so this is gonna be one big thing here . Um .Marketing: Was the goal in your in your prototype design that itbe as low profile as possible ?Industrial Designer: What do you mean by profile ?Marketing: {vocalsound} Sort of flat as possible .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: No .User Interface: You see I envision it asbeing um quite deepMarketing: Yeah .User Interface: sort of {vocalsound} deep enough to be comfy to hold in your hands rather than being wide and flat .Marketing: Yeah that's what I was thinking , toIndustrialDesigner: We didn't have enough Play-Doh to make it three D_ . {vocalsound}Marketing: Sure , okay . Yeah alright yeah fair enough .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay , just thought I'd ask .IndustrialDesigner: So there's one more dimension to the thing which we need to to add ,Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: and you might want to add in the report , length , width , and height .Project Manager: Rightokay .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: So just to well to be thorough then , width-wise we're looking at about what three centimetres or something ?Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay andthen so height-wise {disfmarker}Marketing: Hmm .Project Manager: How how tall do you envisage it being ? About that big ?Industrial Designer: Two .User Interface: Yeah it works , yeah .Project Manager: About twocentimetres , okay .Marketing: Two's not very high at all though .Industrial Designer: This is about this is about two .Marketing: Maybe a bit higher ?Industrial Designer: Slightly more than two , so{disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .User Interface: See , about that thick .Project Manager: Okay . Ach , that is {disfmarker}Marketing: Maybe closer to three even or two and a half .Industrial Designer: Okay.Project Manager: Yeah . Okay we'll s we'll say two point five . Okay um so we have it within cost anyway . Um so yeah project evaluation is this point . Um .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Right uh . Okay socan we close that ? This is what it's {disfmarker} the final spec that it's gonna be . Someone is gonna have to {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: yeah that's fine that's fine .Marketing: Um it's probablyjust {disfmarker} I dunno if it's worth getting into , but um just in in that we want this to be stylish , should we think a little bit more out of the box in terms of a button grid , because I've seen there's lots of devices outthere that that instead of taking your standard nine nine square grid , and they have it sort of stylized or in different concept that that {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I think that's something that's very hard to catch


Professor D: OK . So , uh You can fill those out , uh {pause} after , actually , so So , I got , uh {pause} these results from , uh , Stephane . Also , um , I think that , uh {pause} um {pause} we might hear later today ,about other results . I think s that , uh , there were some other very good results that we 're gonna wanna compare to . But , {vocalsound} r our results from other {disfmarker} other places , yeah .PhD A: I I 'm sorry? I didn'tProfessor D: Um , I got this from youPhD A: Yeah .Professor D: and then I sent a note to Sunil about the {disfmarker} cuz he has been running some other systemsPhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor D: other thanthe {disfmarker} the ICSI OGI one .PhD A: Oh yeah .Professor D: So {pause} um , I wan wanna {disfmarker} wanna see what that is . But , uh , you know , so we 'll see what it is comparatively later . But {pause} itlooks like , umPhD A: M yeah .Professor D: You know most of the time , even {disfmarker} I mean even though it 's true that the overall number for Danish {disfmarker} we didn't improve it If you look at it individually, what it really says is that there 's , um , uh Looks like out of the six cases , between the different kinds of , uh , matching conditions {pause} out of the six cases , there 's basically , um , a couple where it stays aboutthe same , uh , three where it gets better , and one where it gets worse .PhD A: Yeah .Professor D: Uh , go ahead .PhD A: Y Actually , uh , um , for the Danish , there 's still some kind of mystery because , um , um ,when we use the straight features , we are not able to get these nice number with the ICSI OGI one , I mean . We don't have this ninety - three seventy - eight , we have eightPhD E: Eighty - nine forty - four .PhD A:yeah . Uh , so , uh , that 's probably something wrong with the features that we get from OGI . Uh , and Sunil is working on {disfmarker} on trying to {disfmarker} to check everything .Professor D: Oh , and{disfmarker} and we have a little time on that {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} actually soPhD A: Hmm ?Professor D: We have a little bit of time on that , actually .PhD A: Yeah .Professor D: We have a day or so , soWhen {disfmarker} when {disfmarker} when do you folks leave ?PhD A: Uh , Sunday .Professor D: Sunday ? So So , uh Yeah , until Saturday midnight , or something , we have W we {disfmarker} we have time , yeah. Well , that would be good . That 'd be good .PhD A: Yeah .Professor D: Yeah . Uh , and , you know , i u when whenever anybody figures it out they should also , for sure , email Hynek because Hynek will be over there{vocalsound} telling people {vocalsound} what we did , so he should know .PhD A: Mmm . Yeah .Professor D: Good , OK . So , um So , we 'll {disfmarker} we 'll hold off on that a little bit . I mean , even with theseresults as they are , it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's really not that bad . But {disfmarker} but , uh , um And it looks like the overall result as they are now , even without , you know , any {disfmarker} anybugs being fixed is that , uh , on the {disfmarker} the other tasks , we had this average of , uh , forty uh {disfmarker} nine percent , or so , improvement . And here we have somewhat better than that than the Danish, and somewhat worse than that on the German , but I mean , it sounds like , uh , one way or another , the methods that we 're doing can reduce the error rate from {disfmarker} from mel ceptrum {pause} down by ,you know {pause} a fourth of them to , uh , a half of them . Somewhere in there , depending on the {pause} exact case . So So that 's good . I mean , I think that , uh , one of the things that Hynek was talking aboutwas understanding what was in the other really good proposals and {disfmarker} and trying to see if what should ultimately be proposed is some , uh , combination of things . Um , if , uh {disfmarker} Cuz there 'sthings that they are doing {pause} there that we certainly are not doing . And there 's things that we 're doing that {pause} they 're not doing . And {disfmarker} and they all seem like good things .PhD A: Yeah.Professor D: SoPhD E: Mmm , yeah .PhD C: How much {disfmarker} how much better was the best system than ours ?Professor D: So Well , we don't know yet .PhD C: Mmm .Professor D: Uh , I mean , first place ,there 's still this thing to {disfmarker} to work out , and second place {disfmarker} second thing is that the only results that we have so far from before were really development set results .PhD C: Oh , OK .Professor D:So , I think in this community that 's of interest . It 's not like everything is being pinned on the evaluation set . But , um , for the development set , our best result was a little bit short of fifty percent . And the bestresult of any system was about fifty - four , where these numbers are the , uh , relative , uh , reduction in , uh , word error rate .PhD C: Oh , OK .Professor D: And , um , the other systems were , uh , somewhat lowerthan that . There was actually {disfmarker} there was much less of a huge range than there was in Aurora one . In Aurora one there were {disfmarker} there were systems that ba basically didn't improve things .PhDC: Hmm .Professor D: And here the {disfmarker} the worst system {pause} still reduced the error rate by thirty - three percent , or something , in development set .PhD C: Oh , wow .Professor D: So {disfmarker} so ,you know , sort of everybody is doing things between , well , roughly a third of the errors , and half the errors being eliminated , {vocalsound} uh , and varying on different test sets and so forth .PhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor D: So I think Um {pause} It 's probably a good time to look at what 's really going on and seeing if there 's a {disfmarker} there 's a way to combine the best ideas while at the same time not blowing up theamount of , uh , resources used , cuz that 's {disfmarker} that 's critical for this {disfmarker} this test .PhD C: Do we know anything about {disfmarker} who {disfmarker} who 's was it that had the lowest on the devset ?Professor D: Um , uh , the , uh , the there were two systems that were put forth by a combination of {disfmarker} of , uh , French Telecom and Alcatel . And , um they {disfmarker} they differed in some respects ,but they e em one was called the French Telecom Alcatel System the other was called the Alcatel French Telecom System , {vocalsound} uh , which is the biggest difference , I think . But {disfmarker} but there 're{disfmarker} there 're {disfmarker} there 're some other differences , too . Uh , and {disfmarker} and , uh , they both did very well ,PhD C: Uh - huh .Professor D: you know ? So , {vocalsound} um , my impression isthey also did very well on {disfmarker} on the {disfmarker} the , uh , evaluation set , but , um , I {disfmarker} I we haven't seen {disfmarker} you 've - you haven't seen any final results for thatPhD C: And they used{disfmarker} the main thing that {disfmarker} that they used was spectral subtraction ?Professor D: yeah .PhD C: OrProfessor D: There is a couple pieces to it . There 's a spectral subtraction style piece {disfmarker} itwas basically , you know , Wiener filtering . And then {disfmarker} then there was some p some modification of the cepstral parameters , where they {disfmarker}PhD A: Yeah , actually , something that 's close tocepstral mean subtraction . But , uh , the way the mean is adapted {disfmarker} um , it 's signal dependent . I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm , uh So , basically , the mean is adapted during speech and not during silence.Professor D: Yeah .PhD A: But it 's very close to {disfmarker} to cepstral mean subtraction .Professor D: But some people have done {vocalsound} {pause} exactly that sort of thing , of {disfmarker} of {disfmarker}and the {disfmarker} I mean it 's not {disfmarker} To {disfmarker} to look in {pause} speech only , to try to m to measure these things during speech ,PhD A: Yeah , yeah .Professor D: that 's p that 's not thatuncommon . But i it it {disfmarker} so it looks like they did some {disfmarker} some , uh , reasonable things , uh , and they 're not things that we did , precisely . We did unreasonable things , {vocalsound} which{disfmarker} because we like to try strange things , and {disfmarker} and , uh , and our things worked too .PhD C: Hmm .Professor D: And so , um , uh , it 's possible that some combination of these different thingsthat were done would be the best thing to do . But the only caveat to that is that everybody 's being real conscious of how much memory and how much CPU they 're usingPhD C: Mm - hmm .Professor D: because these, {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} uh , standards are supposed to go on cell phones with m moderate resources in both respects .PhD C: Did anybody , uh , do anything with the models as a {disfmarker} anexperiment ? OrProfessor D: Uh , they didn't report it , if they did .PhD C: N nobody reported it ?Professor D: Yeah . I think everybody was focused elsewhere . Um , now , one of the things that 's nice about what we didis , we do have a {disfmarker} a , uh {disfmarker} a filtering , which leads to a {disfmarker} a , uh {disfmarker} a reduction in the bandwidth in the modulation spectrum , which allows us to downsample . So , uh , asa result of that we have a reduced , um , transmission rate for the bits .PhD C: Mm - hmm .Professor D: That was misreported the first time out . It {disfmarker} it said the same amount because for convenience sakein the particular way that this is being tested , uh , they were repeating the packets . So it was {disfmarker} they were s they {disfmarker} they had twenty - four hundred bits per second , but they were literallycreating forty - eight hundred bits per second , {vocalsound} um , even though y it was just repeated .PhD C: Oh . Mm - hmm . Right .Professor D: So , uh , in practicePhD C: So you could 've had a repeat count inthere or something .Professor D: Well , n I mean , this was just a ph phoney thing just to {disfmarker} to fit into the {disfmarker} the software that was testing the errors {disfmarker} channel errors and so on .PhD C:Oh . Oh .Professor D: So {disfmarker} so in reality , if you put this {disfmarker} this system in into , uh , the field , it would be twenty - four hundred bits per second , not forty - eight hundred . So , um , so that 's anice feature of what {disfmarker} what we did . Um , but , um , well , we still have to see how it all comes out .PhD C: Hmm .Professor D: Um , and then there 's the whole standards process , which is another thingaltogether .PhD C: When is the development set {disfmarker} I mean , the , uh , uh , test set results due ? Like the day before you leave or something ?Professor D: Uh , probably the day after they leave , but we 'llhave to {disfmarker} {vocalsound} we 'll have to stop it the day before {comment} we leave .PhD A: Yeah , yeah . SoPhD C: Huh .Professor D: I think tha I think the {disfmarker} the meeting is on the thirteenth orsomething .PhD A: Yeah , this Tuesday , yeah .Professor D: And , uh , they , uh Right . And the {disfmarker} the , uh , results are due like the day before the meeting or something . SoPhD A: Yeah , probably ,wellProfessor D: I th I think {disfmarker} I I think they are ,PhD A: Yeah , wellProfessor D: yeah . So {pause} {vocalsound} um , since we have a bit farther to travel than {vocalsound} some of the others ,{vocalsound} uh , we 'll have to get done a little quicker . But , um , I mean , it 's just tracing down these bugs . I mean , just exactly this sort of thing of , you know , why {disfmarker} why these features seem to bebehaving differently , uh , in California than in Oregon .PhD C:  Hmm .Professor D: Might have something to do with electricity shortage . Uh , we didn't {disfmarker} we didn't have enough electrons here and Uh , but ,um Uh , I think , you know , the main reason for having {disfmarker} I mean , it only takes w to run the {disfmarker} the two test sets in {disfmarker} just in computer time is just a day or so , right ?PhD A: Yeah,Professor D: SoPhD A: it 's very short interval .Professor D: yeah . So , I think the who the whole reason for having as long as we have , which was {pause} like a week and a half , is {disfmarker} is because of bugslike that . So Huh So , we 're gonna end up with these same kind of sheets that have the {pause} the percentages and so on just for the {disfmarker}PhD A: Yeah , so there are two more columns in the sheets,Professor D: Oh , I guess it 's the same sheets ,PhD A: two . Yeah , it 's the same sheets ,Professor D: yeah , yeah {disfmarker}PhD A: yeah .Professor D: just with the missing columns filled in .PhD A: Yeah .ProfessorD: Yeah . Well , that 'll be good . So , I 'll dis I 'll disregard these numbers . That 's {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} that 's good .PhD A: So , Hynek will try to push for trying to combine , uh , different things ? OrHmm ?Professor D: Uh , well that 's {pause} um yeah I mean , I think the question is " Is there {disfmarker} is there some advantage ? " I mean , you could just take the best system and say that 's the standard . Butthe thing is that if different systems are getting at good things , um , a again within the constraint of the resources , if there 's something simple that you can do Now for instance , uh , it 's , I think , very reasonable tohave a standard for the terminal 's side and then for the server 's side say , " Here 's a number of things that could be done . " So , um , everything that we did could probably just be added on to what Alcatel did , and iit 'd probably work pretty well with them , too . So , um , uh , that 's one {disfmarker} one aspect of it . And then on the terminal 's side , I don't know how much , um , memory and {disfmarker} and CPU it takes , butit seems like the filtering {pause} Uh , I mean , the VAD stuff they both had , right ? And , um , so {disfmarker} and they both had some kind of on - line normalization , right ?PhD A: Uh , yeah .Professor D: Of sorts ,yeah ? So {disfmarker} so , it seems like the main different there is the {disfmarker} is the , uh , filtering . And the filtering {disfmarker} I think if you can {disfmarker} shouldn't take a lot of memory to do that Uh ,and I also wouldn't think the CPU , uh , would be much either for that part . So , if you can {disfmarker} if you can add those in {pause} um {pause} then , uh , you can cut the data rate in half .PhD A: Yeah .ProfessorD: So it seems like the right thing to do is to {disfmarker} on the {disfmarker} on the terminal 's side , take what they did , if it {disfmarker} if it does seem to generalize well to German and Danish , uh , take whatthey did add in a filter , and add in some stuff on the server 's side and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and that 's probably a reasonable standard . Um {pause} UhPhD A: They are working on this already ? Because{disfmarker} yeah , Su - Sunil told me that he was trying already to put some kind of , uh , filtering in the {vocalsound} {pause} France Telecom .Professor D: Yeah , so that 's {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} that 'swhat That would be ideal {disfmarker} would be is that they could , you know , they could actually show that , in fact , a combination of some sort , {vocalsound} uh , would work even better than what {disfmarker}what any of the systems had . And , um , then it would {disfmarker} it would , uh {pause} be something to {disfmarker} to discuss in the meeting . But , uh , not clear what will go on . Um , I mean , on the one hand ,um , sometimes people are just anxious to get a standard out there . I mean , you can always have another standard after that , but {vocalsound} this process has gone on for a while on {disfmarker} already and{disfmarker} and people might just wanna pick something and say , " OK , this is it . " And then , that 's a standard . Uh , standards are always optional . It 's just that , uh , if you disobey them , then you risk not beingable to sell your product , or {pause} {vocalsound} Uh {pause} um And people often work on new standards while an old standard is in place and so on . So it 's not final even if they declared a standard . The otherhand , they might just say they just don't know enough yet to {disfmarker} to declare a standard . So you {disfmarker} you {disfmarker} you will be {disfmarker} you will become experts on this and know more{disfmarker} far more than me about the tha this particular standards process once you {disfmarker} you go to this meeting . So , be interested in hearing . So , uh , I 'd be , uh , interested in hearing , uh , yourthoughts now I mean you 're almost done . I mean , you 're done in the sense that , um , you may be able to get some new features from Sunil , and we 'll re - run it . Uh , but other than that , you 're {disfmarker} you're basically done , right ? So , uh , I 'm interested in hearing {disfmarker} hearing your thoughts about {pause} where you think we should go from this .PhD A: Yeah .Professor D: I mean , we tried a lot of things in ahurry , and , uh , if we can back off from this now and sort of take our time with something , and not have doing things quickly be quite so much the constraint , what {disfmarker} what you think would be the bestthing to do .PhD A: Uh , well Hmm Well , first , uh , to really have a look at {disfmarker} at the speech {pause} {vocalsound} from these databases because , well , we tried several thing , but we did not really look{vocalsound} at what what 's happening , and {vocalsound} where is the noise , andProfessor D: OK .PhD A: EhProfessor D: It 's a novel idea . Look at the data . OK .PhD A: Yeah .Professor D: Or more generally , Iguess , what {disfmarker} what is causing the degradation .PhD A: Yeah , yeah . Actually , there is one thing that {disfmarker} well {pause} Um , generally we {disfmarker} we think that {vocalsound} most of theerrors are within phoneme classes , and so I think it could be interesting to {disfmarker} to see if it {disfmarker} I don't think it 's still true when we add noise , and {vocalsound} so we have {disfmarker} I{disfmarker} I guess the confusion ma the confusion matrices are very different when {disfmarker} when we have noise , and when it 's clean speech . And probably , there is much more {pause} between classeserrors for noisy speech .Professor D: Mm - hmm .PhD A: And {vocalsound} so , um Yeah , so perhaps we could have a {disfmarker} a large gain , eh , just by looking at improving the , uh , recognition , not ofphonemes , but of phoneme classes , simply .Professor D: Mm - hmm .PhD A: And {vocalsound} which is a s a s a simpler problem , perhaps , but {disfmarker} which is perhaps important for noisy speech .Professor D:The other thing that strikes me , just looking at these numbers is , just taking the best cases , I mean , some of these , of course , even with all of our {disfmarker} our wonderful processing , still are horrible kinds ofnumbers . But just take the best case , the well - matched {pause} uh , German case after {disfmarker} er well - matched Danish after we {disfmarker}PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor D: the kind of numbers we 'regetting are about eight or nine {pause} uh {pause} p percent {pause} error {pause} per digit .PhD A: Mm - hmm . Yeah .Professor D: This is obviously not usable ,PhD A: No .Professor D: right ?PhD A: Sure .ProfessorD: I mean , if you have ten digits for a phone number {comment} I mean , every now and then you 'll get it right . I mean , it 's {disfmarker} it 's , uh , {vocalsound} um So , I mean , the other thing is that , uh{disfmarker} And {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} a and {disfmarker} and also , um {pause} part of what 's nice about this is that this is , uh , {vocalsound} um {pause} a realistic {disfmarker} almost realisticdatabase . I mean , it 's still not people who are really trying to accomplish something , but {disfmarker} but , uh , within the artificial setup , it isn't noise artificially added , you know , simulated , uh , additive noise.PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor D: It 's real noise condition . And , um , {vocalsound} the {disfmarker} the training {disfmarker} the training , I guess , is always done on the close talkingPhD A: No , actually{disfmarker} actually the well - matched condition {pause} is {pause} still quite di still quite difficult .Professor D: No ?PhD A: I mean , it 's {disfmarker} they have all these data from the close mike and from thedistant mike , {vocalsound} from different driving condition , open window , closed window ,Professor D: Yeah .PhD A: and they take all of this and they take seventy percent , I think , for training and thirty percent fortesting .PhD E: Mm - hmm .PhD A: So , training is done {vocalsound} on different conditions and different microphones , and testing also is done {pause} on different microphone and conditions . So , probably if weonly take the close microphones , {vocalsound} I guess the results should be much much better than this .Professor D: I see .PhD A: Mmm .Professor D: Oh , OK ,PhD A: UhProfessor D: that explains it partially . Wha -what about i in {disfmarker} so the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker}PhD A: Yeah , so {disfmarker} there is this , the mismatched is , um {pause} the same kind of thing ,Professor D: go ahead .PhD A: but {pause} the


User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: So I see all everybody's here , 'kay .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Yep .Project Manager: And we can start meeting .User Interface: Okay {vocalsound} .Marketing:What's the agenda for this meeting ?Project Manager: The {disfmarker} I will uh present here agenda with with with with slides to you .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Um as you can see here .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Perfect .Project Manager: So first uh just to mention I will take notes uh of this meetingMarketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: and uh I will try to workthem out and give them to you . I've also made notes of the previous meeting and um I was about to send them you but {vocalsound} then uh I had to go to this uh meeting so you will get them too uhMarketing:Mm-hmm .User Interface: Next .Project Manager: Um .Industrial Designer: So y you are the secretary also .Project Manager: Yes . Indeed .Industrial Designer: Right ? Okay .Project Manager: Then I hope you all haveuh worked out {vocalsound} some some uh {vocalsound} some some presentations about uh about well you the the task given to you in the previous meeting .Industrial Designer: Perfectly yeah yeah of course uh-huh.User Interface: {gap}Project Manager: Um . W We will uh in a minute we will uh {vocalsound} start with them . Um , we will see in which order we will handle them of . Um then I will uh bring in some some some newrequirements I I got uh from the uh account manager , I try to work them out , they were quite abstract , and we can have maybe have com some discussion about it . Uh Um about the functionsMarketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: and {disfmarker} Well in this meeting we should really {vocalsound} try to reach a decision about the target group and the functionality of the {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: Youmean the social target group who we wants to target ?Project Manager: Yes I mean well yes w who are we going to uh to well to sell this ,Marketing: Mm .User Interface: {gap}Industrial Designer: Oh the customers ,okay .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: the customers , indeed yes . Think that's that's important matter .Marketing: That's the big question yeah .Project Manager: Uh . {vocalsound} So {vocalsound} And then uh wewill close this meeting uhUser Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: and after this meeting we'll uh we'll have a lunch . Good . Um . Maybe um why uh Anna can you c do you have a presentations ?Marketing: No , Idon't .Project Manager: You don't have presentation ?Marketing: I wasn't . No .Project Manager: Uh you want a table to to uhMarketing: I c I can talk about it but I have no slides or anything .Project Manager: Yes yesmaybe maybe you can uh can just talk about it or maybe you can use the whiteboard if necessary um .Marketing: Mm-hmm . Well I've just been um presented with some research we've done in a small focus group so ,a hundred people , just asked them about their remote control usage habits and what they want in a remote control . Um . It's {disfmarker} probably can't email this to you , I've just got a web page with some data onit . Um basically it's saying that users generally dislike the look and feel of their remote controls . Um seventy five u seventy five percent of users find most remote controls ugly . Um .Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Eighty percent of users would spend more money when a remote control would look fancy . Um . Current remote controls do not match well the operating behaviour of the user . Uh seventy five percent ofusers said they zap a lot , so they use their remote control quite frequently while they're watching television . Uh . Fifty percent of users say that they only use ten percent of the buttons , so they've got a remote controlwith a lot of functionality but really most of the time they only use a small part of that .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: Um .Project Manager: Do you Do you have this uh information on the web page you said?Marketing: I have an a web page yes .Project Manager: Yes , mayb maybe you can can send an email to me later uh . Uh about this .Marketing: Yep . Yep , sure . Mm-hmm . So basically um there's a breakdown ofhow much they use the different functions on a rem remote control . Um , power and volume selection are only used a few times within this uh per hour . Um , channel selection is used a hundred and sixty eight timesum {vocalsound} and then there's things like channel settings , audio settings , which are only used very infrequently .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: Um . Teletext is used um fourteen times in the hour , so it isused but not nearly as much as the channel selection is used . Um .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: An interesting thing that this report has brought up is that um fifty fifty percent of users report that the remotecontrol gets lost a lot of the time in the room , so some way of some way of locating the remote control would be very useful to a lot of users . Um .Project Manager: Yes yes , I have {vocalsound} that too {vocalsound}.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Thirty four percent said it takes too long to learn to use a remote control , they want something that's easier to use straight away , more intuitive perhaps .ProjectManager: Mm .Marketing: Um .Industrial Designer: It's it's easy to learn or how do you say it's {disfmarker}Marketing: Thirty four percent said it took too much time to learn to use a new one . Yep .Industrial Designer:Okay too much time to learn . Okay .Marketing: Um . And thirty {disfmarker} twenty six percent said remote controls are bad for R_S_I_ .Industrial Designer: Not enough {gap}Marketing: I don't know how we'd goabout combating that .User Interface: {gap} . What do you mean there ?Marketing: For R_S_I_ ? Respet Repetitive strain injury .User Interface: Okay .Marketing: So . But {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm . Theythink that or do their doctor the doctor says ?Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: {vocalsound} But it's it's the opinion of the uh of the users huh ?Marketing: Yeah . That's what the report says yeah .Project Manager: Somm .Marketing: Um and then it's got a demographic breakdown on {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Maybe y y you cannot put this webpage online on the {disfmarker}Marketing: Uh I should be able to actually , if Iemail it to you now .User Interface: You can disconnect it thereProject Manager: {vocalsound} You can maybe just just {disfmarker}User Interface: no ?Marketing: Oh no , yeah .Industrial Designer: Ah it's{vocalsound} it okay it's a webpage on the C_ it's a fileMarketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: okay .Marketing: Um , s hang on .Industrial Designer: O otherwise you yeah . You can connect this one .Project Manager:{gap}User Interface: Then you can connect this one or this one yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: All to your computer .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Well .Industrial Designer: So these areimportant numbers that Matthew and I need to take into account for our functional um {disfmarker}User Interface: Oh yeah .Project Manager: {gap}Marketing: Oh I need to muck around with this . It's probably easierif you put it on yours and then I'll just email it to you . It's just a web link .Project Manager: Hmm .Industrial Designer: Yeah {gap}User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: Yeah these numbers have have to be haveto be taken into account for the uh both yeah user interface and functional design .User Interface: Hmm . {vocalsound} Yeah .Marketing: One thing it goes on to talk about , which is interesting , is the {disfmarker}hang on a minute .Industrial Designer: Because if there are many numbers and we need to select to to constraint uh our design based on what is more important .Marketing: Mm-hmm . Yep .Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Um , one thing is interesting is talking about um speech recognition in a remote control .Industrial Designer: Speech recognition in {disfmarker}Marketing: And who would pay more for that and whetherpeople would find it useful .Project Manager: D do you have numbers o o on that ?Industrial Designer: Ah okay .Marketing: Yes , I'll just get this up .Industrial Designer: So that we don't {disfmarker} Do we not needany button on the remote control {vocalsound}Marketing: Well potentially yeah , um {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: it would be all based on speech.Marketing: I think even for interestiIndustrial Designer: Okay . Interesting idea .Marketing: yeah I think that would not work so well . You wanna have both options .Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: Well itwould it would be a solution for uh when your remote control is lost ,Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: I mean when it has speech recognition then uh i then it doesn't matter where it is , my {disfmarker} well it's{disfmarker} we should be in range ,Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: or maybe it can respond and produce sound , so say where it is . But the these are all quite fancy featuresIndustrialDesigner: Yeah .Project Manager: I'm not sure whether we will we can make this for {vocalsound} for twelve Euro fi and fifty cents {vocalsound} .User Interface: Well it would be fMarketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer:Yeah .User Interface: No you can't .Industrial Designer: And we don't know where the state of the art of speech recognition is , maybe you know ?User Interface: Oh . Well , {vocalsound} it depends you know like thereis uh it's a very small vocabulary that you want to do the operations like you want to say on , off , one , two , twenty three ,Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: But it's quite noisy if there is the T_V_ uh shouting.Marketing: Mm .User Interface: yeah .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Yes ,User Interface: It's it's going to be liProject Manager: that that that that's mm .User Interface: it's not going to be s so easy but u usuallyit's going to be more of an isolated caseProject Manager: Do you have some more important factsUser Interface: but it's {disfmarker} but I don't know with twenty fiMarketing: Um {disfmarker}Project Manager: or canwe go to the next presentation ?Industrial Designer: Okay . SoMarketing: Well {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: you had to to to summarise maybe the {disfmarker}Marketing: This is now talking about um who wouldpay for speech recognition in a remote control , who would pay more for it , um . Ninety percent of the fifteen to twenty five year old market said that they would pay more , it goes down from there , seventy six percentfor twenty five to thirty five , thirty five percent for thirty five to forty five , um twenty two percent for forty five to fifty five and then eight percent for fifty five to sixty five .Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: Okayit's uh decline .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: Okay .Marketing: But we shProject Manager: Mm-hmm . Decline with age , mm .Marketing: Yeah , it really depends where we're gonna be targeting this product , um,User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm . {vocalsound}Marketing: which we'll be talking about later I think .Industrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: Yes . We will talk about it later .{vocalsound}Marketing: Did you get the email ?Project Manager: Okay . {vocalsound}Marketing: Yep , that one .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Just follow that link .Industrial Designer: {gap} I thi{vocalsound} You usMarketing: It'll be in a different window , yep .Industrial Designer: yeah yeah .Marketing: That's {disfmarker} left {disfmarker} that one .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yep .IndustrialDesigner: Okay perfect . .. .Marketing: Mm . So that's the figure that I was just talking about there , with the different demographics .User Interface: Okay .Marketing: Another thing it's talking about there is theL_C_D_ screen but there's no figures apparently on that .Project Manager: Mm . Okay . {vocalsound} umIndustrial Designer: Mm 'kay .Project Manager: Uh maybe uh Mael c c can you give uh uh your presentation uh?Industrial Designer: Yeah . Mm I okayProject Manager: Oh ,Industrial Designer: I stay {disfmarker}Project Manager: this is {disfmarker}User Interface: Now you can move I think yeah .Project Manager: Mm-hmm , yy you can move , uh .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I can move as far as {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Maybe I take your chair ?Project Manager: Yes . You can you can sa take my chair .Industrial Designer: I okay{vocalsound} .User Interface: It's a channel selection , a module {gap} , this and this function ,Marketing: Sorry ? Oh .User Interface: go to the {gap} . Yeah .Industrial Designer: So I think as everybody knows uh I'mthe uh Industrial Designer . And uh in this presentation uh this group presentation um {vocalsound} is gonna focus on the working design of the the remote control . Um I'd like first to give a quick a very simpleintroduction , how does it work , so that everybody knows even if you don't have a very uh technical background uh what is it because I think in the product it is important .Marketing: Mm . {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: So basically um the basic function of a remote control is to send uh messages to another system that is fixed .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: And so an energy source feeds an integrated circuit ,the chip , that can compose messages , usually uh through a um infrared bitMarketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: and uh the user interface controls the chip and accordingly the the messages , alright . So mymethod for um designing the yeah the work design uh yeah first {vocalsound} the the main point is that I would wish to to make a really functional product . I would prefer to have very functional um capabilities ratherthan fancy stuff that in fact is not used and doesn't work .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: So for that yeah as it's important to take into account the user requirements from theMarketing uh Expert uh AnnaMarketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: and um w to to we should agree on what are the technical functions uh for this remote control and I show you the the working design . So umbasically uh here is a really large view of what we want {vocalsound} . Uh we want an on off button , it can be uh {disfmarker} it's simple but it's it's important , and also uh {gap} the to both channels as well as otherbuttons that come after ,Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: right . So the components I quickly draw here , is that in this part you have the remote control the the sender and on the other part the receiver so that's{disfmarker} my method is um will be to well my aim would be to uh design the and choose the chips and the infrared um components to build the remote controlMarketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: right .ProjectManager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: So of course we need energy sources and uh uh the receiver a a receiver . This is {vocalsound} very quick uh design , uh you stop me or interrupt me if uh you don't agree on iton that .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: And um so what I have found and {vocalsound} after a lot of work actually I {vocalsound} I draw this I draw for you this uh schemaMarketing: {vocalsound}Well . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh-huh .Industrial Designer: that can be maybe too technical for you but is very important for meMarketing: You drew it a long time ago ?Industrial Designer: you know .ProjectManager: Is huhMarketing: Ninety one . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} And uh that's it so I won't go into details about thatProject Manager: overwhelming {vocalsound}.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: No .Industrial Designer: but uh these are my preferences to use uh that kind of components .Project Manager: {vocalsound} And and why do you want these kind ofcomponent ?Industrial Designer: So . SoProject Manager: I mean , are they cheap , or are they uh reliable ? What were your {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: found and yeah th you have always a compromise with uhreliability and uh i if it's expensive ,Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: but uh this one was not this one also really uh reliable um so yeah that's it for the working design , uh I hope you get clearer view on uhwhat what a remote control is uh in terms of uh technical componentsProject Manager: Yes . It it it's more clear now I think .Industrial Designer: but maybe yeah {disfmarker}Project Manager: So {vocalsound}{disfmarker}User Interface: But is it uh can you just buy it on the market and f plug it in or you want to maIndustrial Designer: No no no no we we will uh {disfmarker} This is a preference but we can always change uh{disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm-hmm . What I w what I was thinking about uh the the the schema uh about uh the sender and the receiver , I mean can you can you get back to it ?Industrial Designer: Yeah .ProjectManager: {vocalsound} Yeah uh , the receiver is of course already in the television and we are not uh able to change it . So we we must adapt to the to the receiver .Industrial Designer: Of course yeah .ProjectManager: I I suppose there is a standard uh way of communicating to televisions uh .Industrial Designer: Yeah . We will use uh {vocalsound} infrared protocol uh using {vocalsound} yeah infrared and uh and of coursewe need to adapt to that protocol that already existsProject Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: and but we what we can do is uh uh adapting {vocalsound} the the chips inside uh to the best uh chips and uhinfrared bubbles .Project Manager: Mm . Mm . Mm . Mm . Yes . Okay .Industrial Designer: Um . Okay . {gap}Project Manager: Thank you .User Interface: Well it to du it's just you had to change the frequencies.Industrial Designer: The frequencies ?User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah yeah . Of course yeahUser Interface: {vocalsound} But you should be careful ,Industrial Designer: in the chip you have it yeah.User Interface: people are sometime becoming problem , like a guy has recently designed a remote uh uh uh which could switch off any other T_V_s {vocalsound} , so basically {gap} through all the things .IndustrialDesigner: That can control o other things . Yeah .Marketing: Ah .Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: So maybe we should think of {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Of course yeah we shouldtake that into accountMarketing: That's handy .Project Manager: Yeah yesMarketing: So if the b T_V_ in the next apartment's really loud , you can just turn it off .Project Manager: I I I {disfmarker}User Interface: yeah.Industrial Designer: in the uh {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah so you can just go on the street and then switch off everyone's T_V_ {vocalsound} and you can just walk away {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}User Interface: You don't have to be near the T_V_ at all {vocalsound} .Marketing: Yeah . I like that idea .Project Manager: I I feel I I I think M Mael will will consider this uh th these things .UserInterface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Maybe Maybe we can go to to your presentation uh Matthew .User Interface: YeahProject Manager: I I I assume you were finished here .User Interface: so {vocalsound}.Industrial Designer: Yes .Project Manager: Uh okay .User Interface: Okay . {vocalsound} So I can take I think mine now there .Industrial Designer: Okay .User Interface: Okay so voila .Marketing: {vocalsound}UserInterface: Hmm I can take mine it's okay , voila , mm so mm . Okay .Project Manager: Oh . I {disfmarker} Uh , sorry ? I know where it is .User Interface: It's on the desktop .Project Manager: It's uh {disfmarker}UserInterface: Technical function .Project Manager: Yes .User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: It's uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Like so .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Well . So um I'm going to talk alittle bit about the technical function so wha what actually it's about what is the user going to do , I think my last presented what is going inside ,Marketing: Mm-hmm . Yep .User Interface: so what's the user is going tosee from the outside and how he is going to use it . So well the approach is that uh basically the idea is to send a message to the T_V_ set , as Mael has pointed , and it will be decoded by the T_V_ and usually we it iseasier to have uh keys or buttons with which people can uh press and then um changing a button will basically uh change the message which is being sent to the T_V_ and uh {vocalsound} umIndustrial Designer:Mm-hmm .User Interface: a and basically it sends an internal signal and decoded by the receiver . So p as um Anna has said that this ki people are interested in things which are you don't need to k press the keys ,people are can have a speech recognition but this is uh s a question which will we have to see later .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: But in the present scenario is that you have certain keys and you press it


Project Manager: Yep . Soon as I get this . Okay . This is our last meeting . Um I'll go ahead and go through the minutes from the previous meeting . Uh and then we'll have a , the prototype presentation . {vocalsound}Um then we will um do an evaluation . Uh or we'll see what , what we need to have under the criteria for the evaluation . Then we'll go through the finance and see if we fall within the budget . Um then we'll do theevaluation , and then we can finish up after that with um any changes that we'll need to make , or hopefully everything will fall right in line . Um let's see , minutes from the last meeting . Um we looked at uh the thetrends . We had uh the fashion trends that people want a fancy look-and-feel . It was twice as important as anything else . Um they liked fruit and vegetables in the new styles . Um and a spongy feel . So we weretalking about trying to incorporate those into our prototype . Um they wanted limited buttons and simplicity . Um then we looked at the uh the method for coming up with our own remote . Um looking at other otherdevices . Um the iPod , we really liked the look of that . Um we also had uh the kid's remote for a simple idea . Um a two part remote , which was what were were originally looking at . Uh and then um there was talk ofspee uh speech recognition um becoming more uh predominant and easier to use . But I think we've still decided not to go with that . {vocalsound} Then we looked at the components um the materials for the case , thedifferent energy sources , the different types of chips , um and made a decision on what we were going to use to make our remote . Um and basically how , what were making for the prototype . So I'm going to leave itat that and let you guys take over .User Interface: The prototype discussion .Project Manager: The prototype yeah . Do you need a {disfmarker} this ?User Interface: No . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound} Can try to plug that in thereUser Interface: There is our remo {gap} the banana .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: but {disfmarker}User Interface: Um {vocalsound} yeah basicallywe we st went with the colour yellow . Um working on the principle of a fruit which was mentioned , it's basically designed around a banana .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Um but it would be held insuch a fashion ,Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: where it is , obviously it wouldn't be that floppy 'cause this would be hard plastic . These would be like the rubber , the rubber grips . So that's so that wouldhopefully help with grip , or like the ergonomics of it . Um but all the controlling would be done with this scroll wheel . You have to use your imagination a little bit . And this here represents the screen , where you ,where you'd go through .Project Manager: Very nice .User Interface: And the the simplest functions would be um almost identical to an iPod , where that one way ch through channels , that way th other way throughchannels . Volume up and down . And then to access the more complicated functions you'd you sorta go , you press that and go through the menus . It's that that simple . That just represents the infrared uh beam .That's a simple on and off switch . Um I don't know , we could use the voice . T that blue bits should be yellow , that that'd be where the batteries would be I suppose . And um {vocalsound} that's about it . It's assimple as you , we could make it really .Industrial Designer: Right .User Interface: Is there anything you want to add ?Industrial Designer: That's what we have there . That's plastic . Plastic covered with rubber . Wemight uh add some more underneath here . Maybe give it , give it a form . I mean you're supposed to hold it like that , but um just if you grab it , take it from somewhere ,User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager:Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: so {disfmarker} yeah ,User Interface: Doesn't make much make much difference .Industrial Designer: you have some rub yeah .User Interface: You could work left-handed orright-handed I suppose .Industrial Designer: Exactly , {gap} use both . Might as well think about {disfmarker}User Interface: T the actual thing might be smaller .Industrial Designer: Th think about the button as well .Like either put either one {gap} one on either side orUser Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: What but what's that button ?Industrial Designer: not do it at all . It's a quick on-off button .User Interface:Just the on and off .Project Manager: Uh , 'kay .Industrial Designer: That's umMarketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: yeah I think it's pretty important . So you don't have to fiddle with that .Project Manager: 'Kay.Industrial Designer: Right ? Um that's not um {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I'd say a bit smaller would probably be nice . You wanna play with that over there .User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: There you go .User Interface: It's you know it's flimsy 'cause it's made out of heavy Play-Doh ,Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Would you like to uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer:Right .User Interface: but {disfmarker}Marketing: Pretty impressive .Project Manager: Well done .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Kind of a banana .User Interface: And whether or not it wouldfall into the cost {gap} everything I suppose . With the scroll and the L_C_D_ .Project Manager: Well luckily we are going to find out . Or not luckily . Um do you have a marketing presentation for us .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I do . Okay . You guys are gonna help me do an evaluation of the criteria . Um . Okay . So first I'll just discuss some of the criteria that I found . Just based on the pasttrend reports that I was looking at earlier . And then we'll do a group evaluation of the prototype . And then we will calculate the average score to see how we did . Um so the criteria we're gonna be looking at are thecomplaints um that we heard from the users who were interviewed earlier . So we're gonna be doing it based on a seven point scale . And one is going to mean true , that we did actually achieve that . With seven beingfalse , we did not achieve that . {gap} . Okay . So for the first one , we need to decide , did we solved the problem of the users who complained about an ugly remote ? {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}{vocalsound} .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I think it's definitely different than anything else out there .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: So if theythink that what is out there is ugly , then yes I would say , I would say most definitely .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: I would {gap} .Project Manager: It's bright .User Interface: It's bright . It's{disfmarker}Project Manager: It still has your traditional black .User Interface: It's curved . It's not {disfmarker} there's no sharpIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: angles to it .Project Manager: Yep ,not angular .Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: I'd say , when it comes to the ergonomics , the form and stuff , yes that's definitely more beautiful than your average .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:However the colour , we don't have a say in that .Marketing: Yeah I think the colours detract a little bit . {vocalsound}User Interface: Some people might say it . Yeah .Industrial Designer: That has been , that has beendictated pretty much by the company .Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: So uh to answer that honestly I would rather say like uh , we have not solved the problem completely with the ugly remote because thecolour is ugly , definitely .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yep .Marketing: That's true . Yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: 'S nothing you can say about that . I mean I muchprefer something like brushed chrome with that form .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: But {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah something more modern to go {disfmarker} a a modern colour to go with themodern form .Industrial Designer: Right . Right . It's different . You don't want your uh three feet huge L_C_D_ dis display in your living room that's hanging from the wall to be controlled with something like that.Marketing: Um okay so , do you think , since we {disfmarker} This was a a sign criteria , do you think maybe we should put it somewhere in the middle then ?Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Does that soundgood ?Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: What do you think ? Three ? Four ?Project Manager: I would sayMarketing: Five ?Project Manager: four .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Four is fair . Okay .Project Manager: Very non-committal , four .Marketing: Okay , the second one . Did we make it simple for new users?Industrial Designer: It's very intuitive , I think yeah .User Interface: Yeah . I think that was the main aim , one of the main aims that we had .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} S give it a one .Marketing: One ,ProjectManager: Yeah .Marketing: 'kay . Okay . Um , do the controls now match the operating behaviour of the users ?User Interface: Uh yeah . 'Cause we've we've brought it down to basically four controls {gap} mostcommon , which are channel and volume .Marketing: I'd say that {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Right .User Interface: And then the other ones are just a matter of just going , justscrolling further .Project Manager: S scrolling through and selecting a few .Industrial Designer: Right . So that's a one .Marketing: So one ?Project Manager: I think that's a one .Marketing: Yeah ? {vocalsound} Okay .Okay um the fourth one . How about the problem of a remote being easily lost ? One of the number one complaints .Industrial Designer: Something that big and that yellow you just don't lose anymore .ProjectManager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound} Whether you want to or not , you're not gonna lose it . {vocalsound}User Interface: It's bright yellow .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}User Interface: Bright yellow's hard to lose . But um if we were to , if we were , that , the speech recognition . That , we could maybe just use that solely for the the finding thing . That was what we'd we'dmentioned .Project Manager: So if we incorporate speech recognition into it then it could {disfmarker}User Interface: Just just to use , to find it when it was lost . But like I said , like I don't think you'd lose somethingso yellow so easily .Industrial Designer: Oops . Hmm .User Interface: And it's not gonna fall , like a rectangle would slip down behind things . That's gonna be a difficult shape to {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Wellwhat {disfmarker}Project Manager: And it is quite bright and {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Maybe in the middle again , three or four or something ?Project Manager: Uh{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: SMarketing: Okay .User Interface: I mean you know {gap} loo losing things is one of those things that people can lose , I mean a million ways .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface:You can pick it up and walk away with it and then you've lost it .Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: That's true .Project Manager: But if we do go with the , with the speech recognition , then it , then our scale goes upquite a bit I think .Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: Oh yeah . You probably {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Probably two . You know . If we eliminate the fact that you know it's impossible toguarantee that it's not gonna be lost thenUser Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: I'd say two .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: With the speechrecognition , which of course may be changed depending on budget .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Y you could add an extra feature actually . Which makes this thing raise hell when you remove it too farfrom the television .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: We could add that but that's nothing we have thought of so far .Project Manager: Which , which may be cheaper than speech recognition if it were just a{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yes .User Interface: Yeah true . But I mean d just those whistling , clapping key rings you have . They're cheap .Marketing: Annoying alarm or something ?Project Manager:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: It's it's {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: So it can't be thatIndustrial Designer: Um the {disfmarker} it's based on this anti anti-theft technology for suitcases and stuff,User Interface: expensive .Project Manager: Some sort of proximity {vocalsound} {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: where you have one piece that's attached to your luggage , another piece thatstarts beeping . That can't cost much .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: So that can also easily be integrated because these things are small enough to to hide , so you have one piece , you have to gluesomewhere behind your {disfmarker} stick it behind your T_V_ and the other {disfmarker}User Interface: {gap} stick it on the T_V_ {gap} .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Pray that you don't accidentally lose thatpiece . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Right .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: That'd be tough then . {vocalsound} Well also your remote would uh alarm you if somebodystole you t your television , yeah . Ran off with it without taking the beautiful remote control .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound}Marketing: So . Are we adding one of these two features?Industrial Designer: Let's add one of those features and say yes . {vocalsound}Marketing: {gap} gonna say {disfmarker} okay .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: So we're {vocalsound} back to a one ?UserInterface: Two .Marketing: Or a two ?Project Manager: Two .Industrial Designer: Two .Marketing: Two , 'kay . Okay . Are we technologically innovative ?Industrial Designer: Uh {disfmarker}User Interface:{vocalsound} I'd say so .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh don't get many mo remote controls withIndustrial Designer: It's all just {disfmarker}User Interface: screens on .Industrial Designer: It's alljust stolen technology when it comes down to {disfmarker} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah it's stolen technology .Marketing: From iPod yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: It's {disfmarker}{vocalsound}User Interface: But we have {gap} .Project Manager: But there's not a lot of yellow , there's not a lotta yellow .Industrial Designer: rightMarketing: But for remotes {disfmarker} yeah .Project Manager:Course that wasn't really {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: rightUser Interface: FaIndustrial Designer: right right .Project Manager: we were kinda forced to take that colour .Marketing: Two ? Three ?User Interface:{gap} 'cause it's stolen .Project Manager: I don't know that we are that innovative , to tell you the truth . {vocalsound}User Interface: No maybe not .Industrial Designer: Yeah not really .Marketing: But how manyremotes do you see like this ?User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: If we added the screaming factor {vocalsound} then we go up .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Not so many .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um I would say we're probably at four .Industrial Designer: Right .Marketing: Really ? Okay . {vocalsound}That's gonna hurt us .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay . Um spongy material ?Industrial Designer: Yeah well you have that , kind of , sort of .Project Manager: We have some spongy , yeah .User Interface:Yeah as much as as needed , I think .Marketing: 'Kay .Industrial Designer: It's not a one though .Project Manager: No .Industrial Designer: One would be the whole thingProject Manager: Yeah . Because it's only gotwhat , these parts are the grips and perhaps the back side {disfmarker} the bottom {disfmarker} the underneath on the back .Industrial Designer: to fold and stuff . Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Sothat's a four at most .Project Manager: Probably a four at most . Possibly even a five .Marketing: And lastly , did we put the fashion in electronics ?Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Y yes .UserInterface: Yeah .Marketing: I'd say we did .Project Manager: If your fashion is b is Carmen Miranda , you betcha . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: More {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah .{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well the recent fashion is rather displayed in the in the L_C_D_ and the way you operate it than the form and the colour ,User Interface: On the{disfmarker}Project Manager: It's true .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: but it definitely is {disfmarker}User Interface: Be what we were told , and they'd say yeah , definitely .Industrial Designer: {gap}.Marketing: 'Kay . Alright . Now we just gotta calculate . Six eight twelve sixteen . Seventeen divided by sUser Interface: {gap} .Project Manager: Seven is {disfmarker}Marketing: Eight .Project Manager: Two point{disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {gap} two point four ?User Interface: Is that some long division ? No .Project Manager: Something .Marketing: Well I haven't done math in years .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}Marketing: What two {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I dunno .User Interface: Just , I'm sure there's a {gap} .Marketing: Okay we'll say two point four two .Right ? How does that look ?Industrial Designer: I'm impressed . I can't do that without a calculator . {vocalsound}User Interface: No I can't do long {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound} It's been a while .User Interface:very impressive .Project Manager: And what what is the acceptable criteria ? Is there like a scale that we have to hit ?Marketing: Oh no . They just told me toIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}pick my own criteria and have you guys evaluate it {vocalsound} basically .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Alright then .Marketing: So that's that .Project Manager: Okay . Well , let's see .Marketing:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Now we get to do the budget numbers . You didn't know that you were gonna have a budget . But we do . Okay .User Interface: Yeah . Yeah so . You'd been going a long time dividingthat . It's two point four two eight five se it just keeps going on .Marketing: Oh my god .User Interface: Two point four two basically .Marketing: Okay . Yeah we'll go with that .Project Manager: So I have here an{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Fifty percent , you're kidding .Marketing: Not too shabby .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} PProject Manager: We want a fifty percent profit onthis . Oh you can't really see that very well .User Interface: {vocalsound} Charge about three hundred quid for it .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Twelve and a half Euros is what supposed to cost us . Okay , so{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: It's too much .Project Manager: Well let's see .Industrial Designer: Um {disfmarker}Project Manager: The f the {disfmarker} Wonder if I can make this {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: What the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Oh it won't let me do that . Okay . Alright so at top , I don't know if you guys can read that or not . I can't 'cause I don't have myglasses on ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: but so we've got the energy source . There's uh four , five , six categories .Industrial Designer: Battery .Project Manager: We have energy source ,electronics , case . Then we have case material supplements , interface type , and then button supplements . Okay so {disfmarker} Uh first of all energy source , we picked battery . Um and how many batteries do wethink this will probably take ?User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Probably some e either two or four .Industrial Designer: Two .Project Manager: Two ? {vocalsound} Like it . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:At four it's gonna be too heavy , so that that's not our problem . People can change it every month .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Excellent .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} They won't know until after they boughtit .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: This is consumerism .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Alright so for the electronics our choices are simpl simplechip-on-print , regular chip-on-print , advanced chip-on-print , sample sensor , sample speaker .Industrial Designer: {gap} .User Interface: We're advanced chip are we ?Industrial Designer: That's the advanced