Project Manager: So we are here to talk about functional design . Now hopefully we've all got a betteridea from {vocalsound} {disfmarker} than we did f leaving the last meeting as to what it is we are up tonow . So here's an agenda . Uh I'll open . Um you should know that I'll be taking minutes during all themeetings , as I was struggling to our last time uh and that'll be easier for me now because I'm notactually giving the whole presentation . Uh the additional points are just the stuff that we sent and that Iforwarded on from upper management having a few bright ideas to make our lives painful .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um {vocalsound} now {vocalsound} you can allgive your presentations . We can talk about the requirements and hopefully come to some decisions .{vocalsound} Right , forty minutes for this meeting , so a bit more time than the last one . Here's theadditional points I just wanted to put those in there to see if you guys had any comments on them . Uhdid you all receive that email ?User Interface: Yep .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: So does anyonehave any overall {gap}Marketing: Well {vocalsound} uh what comes up for me is that if we're gonna ifwe're gonna be marketing a product that is going to be uh having {vocalsound} no teletext , people arevery comfortable {vocalsound} with {vocalsound} the idea of having teletext and using teletext , and sowe're not {disfmarker} we're gonna be a new product without something that people are verycomfortable having right now .Project Manager: Mm . Mm . Yep .Marketing: So that's , from a marketingperspective I I see I see a lack .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: And so we have to go , I think , in theother direction . What are we gonna have that makes this thing better than {disfmarker}ProjectManager: Well tha that first point could uh also be an op opportunity because in seeing that teletext isbecoming outdated , some sort remote control that can work with the Internet {disfmarker}{vocalsound} there is the opportunity that's presented , I guess .Marketing: {vocalsound} Right . Yeah .No , I I agree with you .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: So what I'm talking about is I see that oneside we're eliminating something so we have to come up with another side which is , what are we gonnabe targeting our market uh that {vocalsound} identifies our product as better than {disfmarker} becauseit doesn't have teletext it has ta-ta-ta-ta-ta .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: So that's that's that wasmy reactions .Project Manager: Yeah . but but we are sort of being dictated that this should only be forthe television .Marketing: Yeah yeah .Project Manager: So we're quite fixed . So we're really probably , interms of marketing , are looking for that's uh that's a cost winner rather than a fantastic new featureproduct .Marketing: Yep .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah bu but we we're designing only theremote ,Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Okay .Industrial Designer: we not design the T_V_ .ProjectManager: Hmm .Industrial Designer: So uh we're gonna be removing the teletext out of any T_V_ thatwe {disfmarker} people use our remote with .Marketing: Yeah . 'Kay .Project Manager: Hmm .Marketing:That's right .Industrial Designer: So it's kind of a stupid decision .Marketing: I think we take with you.Project Manager: But there's also the potential for mark there's a market here for our lost teletext .UserInterface: Right .Project Manager: For example someone that just goes to the shop that wants areplacement {disfmarker} wants it as {vocalsound} cheap as possible . Twenty-five Euros is the sellingprice , we really have to innovate here I guess .Marketing: That's what I'm that's what I'm talking aboutis is that we have to find something that is gonna be very attractive about this product 'cause somebody ,some people are gonna be hap unhappy 'cause it took {disfmarker} they can't ac access their teletext.Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: Okay . 'Cause we're talking about {vocalsound} eighty percent orninety percent or ninety-five percent of the televisions out there are are teletext .Project Manager: Kyeah .Marketing: So so it's it's not that I'm criticizing the product at all . It's just when we eliminate thatthen what do we bring ? What are we bringing in to take the place of this ,Project Manager: Mm 'kay.Marketing: and we have to d {disfmarker} in my opinion we have to double up .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: If we lose one we need to bring two or three .Project Manager: Okay . Okay Ithink that the {vocalsound} last point is probably quite uh straightforward . Obviously the the{disfmarker} w it has to be branded . 'Kay .Industrial Designer: So then the double R_ will be our our{disfmarker}Project Manager: On the product yeah . Can you handle that black and yellow ?User


Grad E: As usual .Grad B: Yes . Whew ! I almost forgot {pause} about the meeting . I woke up twentyminutes ago , thinking , what did I forget ?Grad D: It 's great how the br brain sort of does that .Grad E:Something 's not right here .Grad B: Internal alarms .Grad D: OK . So the news for me is A , myforthcoming travel plansGrad B: Yes .Grad D: in two weeks from today ? Yeah ? More or less ? I 'll be offto Sicily and Germany for a couple , three days .Grad B: Now what are y what are you doing there ? Iforgot ?Grad D: OK , I 'm flying to Sicily basically to drop off Simon there with his grandparents . Andthen I 'm flying to Germany t to go to a MOKU - Treffen which is the meeting of all the module -responsible people in SmartKom ,Grad B: Mmm .Grad D: and , represent ICI and myself I guess there .And um . That 's the mmm actual reason . And then I 'm also going up to EML for a day , and then I 'mgoing to {vocalsound} meet the very big boss , Wolfgang Walster , in Saarbruecken and the Systemsystem integration people in Kaiserslautern and then I 'm flying back via Sicily pick up my son come backhere on the fourth of July . And uh .Grad E: What a great time to be coming back to theGrad B: God blessAmerica .Grad E: You 'll see maybe {disfmarker} see the fireworks from your plane coming in .Grad D:And I 'm sure all the {disfmarker} the people at the airport will be happy to work on that day .Grad E:Yeah . You 'll get even better service than usual .Grad B: Wait , aren't you flying on Lufthansa though?Grad D: Mm - hmm . Alitalia .Grad B: Oh . Well then the {disfmarker} you know , it 's not a big deal .Once you get to the United States it 'll be a problem , butGrad D: Yeah . And um , that 's that bit of news, and the other bit of news is we had {disfmarker} you know , uh , I was visited by my German projectmanager who A , did like what we did {disfmarker} what we 're doing here , and B , is planning to comehere either three weeks in July or three weeks in August , to actually work .Grad B: On {disfmarker}?Grad D: With us .Grad B: Oh .Grad D: And we sat around and we talked and he came up {disfmarker}we came up {disfmarker} with a pretty strange idea . And that 's what I 'm gonna lay on you now . Andum , maybe it might be ultimately the most interesting thing for Eva because she has been known tocomplain about the fact that the stuff we do here is not weird enough .Grad C: OK .Grad D: So this is soweird it should even make you happy .Grad C: Uh . {comment} OK .Grad E: Oh great .Grad D: Imagine ifyou will , {vocalsound} that we have a system that does all that understanding that we want it to dobased on utterances .Grad B: Mm - hmm .Grad D: It should be possible to make that system producequestions . So if you have the knowledge of how to interpret " where is X ? " under given conditions ,situational , user , discourse and ontological {vocalsound} conditions , you should also be able to makethat same system ask " where is X ? "Grad E: Mm - hmm .Grad D: in a sper certain way , based oncertain intentions . So in instead of just being able to observe phenomenon , um , and , guess theintention we might be able just to sort of give it an intention , and make it produce an utterance .Grad E:Hmm .Grad B: Well , like in AI they generally do the take in , and then they also do the generation phase, like Nancy 's thing . Or uh , you remember , in the {disfmarker} the hand thing in one - eighty - two ,like not only was it able to recognize but it was also to generate based upon situations . You mean thatsort of thing ?Grad D: Absolutely .Grad B: OK .Grad D: And once you 've done that what we can do ishave the system ask itself . And answer , understand the answer , ask something else , and enter adialogue with itself . So the {disfmarker} the ba basic {disfmarker} the same idea as having two chesscomputers play against each other .Grad E: Except this smacks a little bit more of a schizophreniccomputer than AI .Grad D: Yeah you c if you want , you can have two parallel {vocalsound} machines um, asking each other . What would that give us ? Would A be something completely weird and strange ,and B , i if you look at all the factors , we will never observe people let 's say , in wheelchairs under{disfmarker} you know , in {disfmarker} under all conditions ,Grad E: That 's good .Grad D: you know ,when they say " X " , and there is a ride at the goal , and the parking is good , we can never collectenough data . It 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's not possible .Grad E: Mm - hmm . Right , right.Grad D: But maybe one could do some learning . If you get the system to speak to itself , you may find nbreak downs and errors and you may be able to learn . And make it more robust , maybe learn newthings . And um , so there 's no {disfmarker} no end of potential things one could get out of it , if that


Project Manager: Wait for the marketing director actually , so . Anyways . Uh . See , shall we wait ? I'mnot sure if he's late or delayed or whatever , so I'm gonna start soon , we have now {disfmarker} don'thave much time anyway .User Interface: Oh , there he is .Industrial Designer: Okay ,Marketing: Yes.Project Manager: There you are ,Industrial Designer: we {disfmarker}Marketing: Sorry ,ProjectManager: okay .Marketing: a little bit of pl little problem with computer .Project Manager: Uh no problem. We're about to start , so have a seat . Okay , welcome again .Marketing: {vocalsound} {gap} .ProjectManager: Today , functional design phase . I'll take you over the minutes of last last meeting . Okay ,that was just to get to know each other ,Marketing: Uh .Project Manager: have a little thoughts on whatyour vision is and {disfmarker} on this project , so {disfmarker} I put the minutes on the {disfmarker} Imade on the on the p the the project share , so if you wanna review them , they're there . I will do soafter every meeting , so if you have some information you wanna take back you can find it there .Anyways , um today three presentations , from every one of you . Um after that I got some new projectrequirements from project board , so we're gonna go af go after {disfmarker} over this later . But Iwanna start with uh stuff you did first , so we can see what everybody came up with . And after that wecan have the new requirements and share some thoughts , so . Who would like {disfmarker} wanna gofirst ?Marketing: Yeah , sure , no problem .Project Manager: Take it .User Interface: Go ahead.Marketing: Um there was a little problem with my computer so not uh the whole uh presentation uh{disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Anyway , let's see what you have .Marketing: Yeah . Um{disfmarker} Okay ,Project Manager: Uh it's still a bit open .Marketing: I want to open the my s oh no.Project Manager: You should close it on your own notebook , I guess . Yeah . So there ?Marketing: Oh no,Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: that's okay . Uh slide show . Yes . The functional requirements , it'suh {vocalsound} uh very important for uh the user , he he wants to {disfmarker} yeah . The the methodwe used uh it it's not m not a slide , because it went wrong , but the method we use uh , um{vocalsound} we tested it w uh with uh a hundred uh men , and we asked them to w uh what the remoteuh f feel uh like and uh what what's uh important . Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: If I can cut in , is itpeople or men ? {vocalsound}Marketing: People ,Project Manager: Is it people , okay .Marketing: sorry.Project Manager: 'Cause I thought it was only men ,Marketing: Both women and men ,Project Manager:so {disfmarker}Marketing: yeah .Project Manager: 'Kay .Marketing: Okay . Uh the findings um uh{vocalsound} seventy five percent of the users find most remote controls ugly . Um {disfmarker}UserInterface: That's pretty shocking uh . {vocalsound}Project Manager: So we have to s we have to dosomething about that .Marketing: Yeah , and {disfmarker} yeah , most th th they want to spend moneyfor a better system , for better remote control , so we can do uh a l a little uh nice things with it , and umthey use {disfmarker} yeah , they use zap a lot , um uh fifty percent say they only {disfmarker} Sothat's the most important things .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Um {disfmarker} oh yeah , not allof it is it on mine on my PowerPoint presentation ,Project Manager: Okay , just talk ahead .Marketing: butum uh the relevant buttons are the power , the channel selection and the volume selection .ProjectManager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: It's uh the most basic buttons that a user wants uh {vocalsound} to use. Uh less important is tel teletext ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}Marketing: uh um they useit , but it's not uh very uh important uh on the scale of zero to ten they six and a half uhProject Manager:Okay , that's okay .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: and {disfmarker} but not important is thechannel selection , the the {vocalsound} {disfmarker} hmm ?Project Manager: That's a little weird.Marketing: Oh , {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Which channel selection ?Marketing: the the{disfmarker} no no no no no , that's very important , but uh w and not important in the audio settings ,display settingsProject Manager: Okay ,Marketing: and uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: we can we canhide those under a menu or something ,User Interface: Oh , okay .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager:okay .Marketing: {vocalsound} Um new preferences preferences . Uh um um beep to find your control ,was {disfmarker}Project Manager: That's like a button on your T_V_ ?Marketing: that was {gap} in thetest , the the most people uh f find it uh irritating uh when they cannot find a rem their remote control


Marketing: Did you get my email with the slides ? Ah . Tricky .Industrial Designer: I guess I have tochange the pen otherwise . Will be completely different .Marketing: Dunno . Maybe they're supposed{disfmarker} the pen's supposed to go over the seats . Might be seat floor rather than person . Yeah ,put it back .Industrial Designer: Yeah . And do you think {vocalsound} it's {gap} .Marketing: Yep{vocalsound} . Yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay .Marketing: Jo's making faces at me .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: So . Matthew is uh late again .Marketing:Mm-hmm .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Probably an important man . Um . So well it is important forhim to be here uh .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: He he he{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So what can you {disfmarker} {gap} ?Project Manager: You did worktogether didn't you ?Industrial Designer: Yeah we will {disfmarker} yeah , so I will be able to tosummarize uh our meeting ,Project Manager: Yes .Industrial Designer: but still I think uh it would be invery important if the uh as um main designer . I think we can put on the {gap} here .Project Manager:Yes . Yes .Industrial Designer: Uh basically w yeah we we designed the two uh items .Project Manager:Mm . Um yesIndustrial Designer: Um , can we have a phone ,Project Manager: but w we {disfmarker}{vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: can someone {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yes , maybewe should phone him . Um well {disfmarker} Um ,Industrial Designer: it's really w well designed{vocalsound} .Marketing: Mm . Mm , object tracking . {vocalsound}Project Manager: when he is not herewe will just we just have to continue . Um so just for record I I will take uh notes again .IndustrialDesigner: Yeah .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: And um well {vocalsound} first thing uh I was uh uhI got an email from uh from my superior again that we really should stay within the budget of the uhtwelve Euro and fifty cents .Industrial Designer: 'Kay .Project Manager: when you stay in it's good , whenyou don't stay in you have to redesign . There is no {vocalsound} uh no negotiation uh {vocalsound}possible in this matter . So we have to consider that . {vocalsound} Good .Industrial Designer: Yep.Project Manager: Um so maybe Anna , you can have your presentation .Marketing: Well we can't{disfmarker} no {disfmarker} we can't do evaluation 'til we have a design .Project Manager: OkayMatthew . Nice uh you are here .Industrial Designer: Great .Project Manager: Great . Great . Oh mamaybe then you can start now with mm presenting your uh your designs .Industrial Designer: Yep . So Iwill start by the the basic one that uh fits into uh eight Euros actually , right , seven eight Euros,Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: and uh well first for both they have um a special shape ,maybe the designer can uh explain better than me , but uh it's like a surf board .Marketing: Mm 'kay.Industrial Designer: And you you are supposed to surf to browse to surf T_V_ , maybe the web , and uhit's kind of interesting shape because um unconsciously people want to s to surf {vocalsound} when theysee this stuff .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Or browse .Industrial Designer: And also it'snot too far from um a mobile .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: So peopleare used to that kind of shape ,User Interface: Mm .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: right .Don't take care too much about the colour because w yeah we don't take {disfmarker}User Interface:Now we are supposed to give some oper offers right now .Industrial Designer: yeah . So here would bebasically the the the infrared uh uh ledMarketing: {vocalsound} Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Eye .UserInterface: {vocalsound} I {disfmarker} yeah .Industrial Designer: yeah L_A_ L_A_ L_E_D_ ,UserInterface: L_E_D_ .Industrial Designer: the on-off button , in red .Marketing: Mm-hmm .IndustrialDesigner: Here would be the volume . On the on the left ,Marketing: Oh yeah .Project Manager: Uh-huh.Industrial Designer: okay , so {gap}User Interface: Mm-hmm , hmm .Project Manager: Yes .IndustrialDesigner: easy to turn on t and off . And um so this is a very cheap version so there are {disfmarker}maybe you can carry on uh Matthew .User Interface: Also {vocalsound} so you have uh uh browsing thechannels , actuallyMarketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: so you can go up and down the channels,Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: uh , if you have a video or something you can forward , back .IndustrialDesigner: How can you change from V_C_R_ to uh T_V_ , by the way ?User Interface: Oh {gap} no no


The Chair (Hon. Anthony Rota (NipissingTimiskaming, Lib.)): I call the meeting to order. Welcome to theseventh meeting of the Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic. Please note that today'sproceedings will be televised in the same way as a typical sitting of the House. We will proceed toministerial announcements. I understand that there are no ministerial announcements. That's confirmed.We will now proceed to presenting petitions for a period not exceeding 15minutes. I would like to remindmembers that any petition presented during a meeting of the special committee must have already beencertified by the clerk of petitions. Once the petition is presented, the member is asked to bring it here tothe Table. Mr.Manly is the first one to be allowed to present a petition.Mr. Paul Manly(NanaimoLadysmith, GP): Thank you, Mr. Chair. I rise today to present a petition that has manysignatures from constituents in NanaimoLadysmith. They're calling for a ban on cosmetic testing usinganimals. They want us to follow the European Union model, under which the use of animals in cosmetictesting has been banned. Moving forward, they're calling for a ban on the sale and manufacture ofanimal-tested cosmetics and their ingredients in Canada.The Chair: Mr. Poilievre is next.Hon. PierrePoilievre (Carleton, CPC): Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I rise today to table e-petition 2466, initiatedby a constituent of mine in Stittsville, a beautiful west Ottawa community. The petition has collected 827signatures from every province and territory. It was collected by Cara, a mother from my riding whosuffered an unthinkable tragedy. Her 11-year-old son Joshua drowned in a boating accident on the St.Lawrence River at Rockport, Ontario. Joshua was not wearing a life jacket. Worse, Cara's family had towait 48 days to recover Joshua's body. Cara is now working tirelessly to amend the small vesselregulations to make it mandatory for children under the age of 14 to wear a life jacket or PFD while theyare passengers in or drivers of small vessels covered under parts 2, 3, and 4 of the regulations. I supportCara's efforts, and I'm honoured to table this petition on her behalf.The Chair: Seeing no further petitionsto be presented, we'll continue, and we will now proceed to the questioning of ministers. Please note thatwe will suspend the proceedings every 45minutes to allow employees who provide support for the sittingto replace each other safely. Go ahead, Mr. Scheer.Hon. Andrew Scheer (Leader of the Opposition): Itwas revealed yesterday that this government's policy was to ignore fraud. The Prime Minister's reactionwas to act as if everything was normal. In fact, we've learned that over 200,000cases of suspected fraudhave been identified in the benefit applications. The Prime Minister is failing our future generations. Ourchildren and grandchildren are going to pay back billions of dollars that he's borrowing to pay tax cheats.Will the Prime Minister protect taxpayers and immediately begin a review of these 200,000cases ofsuspected fraud?Right Hon. Justin Trudeau (Prime Minister): Our priority was to get money out quickly toall Canadians who needed it, and that's exactly what we've done. Millions of Canadians have received themoney they so desperately needed. Having said that, I want to make it very clear, Mr.Chair: Fraud isunacceptable. We have measures in place to detect fraud. All fraudsters will be required to pay back themoney they fraudulently received from the government. We're going to make sure that this is done in thecoming months.Hon. Andrew Scheer: Mr. Chair, Conservatives agree that those who need help should getit, and no one is arguing that they shouldn't, but reports indicate that the Liberals have ordered publicservants to turn a blind eye to 200,000 cases of suspected fraud. It's a simple question: Yes or no, didthe government instruct any government department to ignore red flags or warnings of fraudulentcases?Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, the priority in this situation was getting money out to themillions of Canadians who needed it as quickly as possible, but of course fraud is unacceptable. That'swhy we have put safeguards in place to ensure that anyone who received that money fraudulently willhave to repay it.Hon. Andrew Scheer: It's a yes-or-no question, Mr. Chair. Did the government give anykind of instruction to public servants in any department to ignore red flags or warnings of fraudulentcases, yes or no?Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: The instruction to government officials was to get money outto those who needed it as quickly as possible. We have put measures in place to detect fraud. People whogot this money fraudulently will have to repay.Hon. Andrew Scheer: Mr. Chair, it is clear that he can'tanswer a yes-or-no question, so we can all assume what the answer must be. In other situations, the


Grad E: I guess .Grad A: OK , we 're on . So just make sure that th your wireless mike is on , if you 'rewearing a wireless .Grad E: Check one . Check one .Grad A: And you should be able to see which one{disfmarker} which one you 're on by , uh , watching the little bars change .Grad B: So , which is my bar? Mah ! Number one .Grad A: Yep .Grad E: Sibilance . Sibilance .Grad A: So , actually , if you guys wannago ahead and read digits now , as long as you 've signed the consent form , that 's alright .Grad E: Arewe supposed to read digits at the same time ?Grad A: No . No .Grad E: Oh , OK .Grad A: Each individually. We 're talking about doing all at the same time but I think cognitively that would be really difficult .{vocalsound} To try to read them while everyone else is .Grad E: Everyone would need extreme focus.Grad A: So , when you 're reading the digit strings , the first thing to do is just say which transcript you're on .Professor C: Other way . We m We may wind up with ver We {disfmarker} we may need versionsof all this garbage .Grad B: For our stuff . Yeah .Professor C: Yeah .Grad A: Um . So the first thing you 'dwanna do is just say which transcript you 're on .Professor C: Yeah .Grad A: So . You can see thetranscript ? There 's two large number strings on the digits ? So you would just read that one . And thenyou read each line with a small pause between the lines . And the pause is just so the person transcribingit can tell where one line ends and the other begins . And I 'll give {disfmarker} I 'll read the digit stringsfirst , so can see how that goes . Um . Again , I 'm not sure how much I should talk about {pause} stuffbefore everyone 's here .Professor C: Mmm . Well , we have one more coming .Grad A: OK . Well , whydon't I go ahead and read digit strings and then we can go on from there .Professor C: OK . Well , we canstart doing it .Grad A: Thanks . So , uh , just also a note on wearing the microphones . All of you look likeyou 're doing it reasonably correctly , but you want it about two thumb widths away from your mouth ,and then , at the corner . And that 's so that you minimize breath sounds , so that when you 're breathing, you don't breathe into the mike . Um . Yeah , that 's good . And uh {disfmarker} So , everyone needs tofill out , only once , the speaker form and the consent form . And the short form {disfmarker} I mean ,you should read the consent form , but uh , the thing to notice is that we will give you an opportunity toedit a all the transcripts . So , if you say things and you don't want them to be released to the generalpublic , which , these will be available at some point to anyone who wants them , uh , you 'll be given anopportunity by email , uh , to bleep out any portions you don't like . Um . On the speaker form just fill outas much of the information as you can . If you 're not exactly sure about the region , we 're not exactlysure either . So , don't worry too much about it . The {disfmarker} It 's just self rating . Um . And I thinkthat 's about it . I mean , should I {disfmarker} Do you want me to talk at all about why we 're doing thisand what this project is ?Professor C: Um , yeah .Grad A: or {disfmarker} ?Professor C: No . There was{disfmarker} there was {disfmarker} Let 's see . Oh {disfmarker}Grad E: Does Nancy know that we 'remeeting in here ?Grad B: I sent an email .Professor C: She got an emai she was notified .Grad E: Ohyeah , she got an e Yeah , yeah .Professor C: Whether she knows {vocalsound} is another question . Um. So are the people going to be identified by name ?Grad A: Well , what we 're gonna {disfmarker} we 'llanonymize it in the transcript . Um , but not in the audio .Professor C: Right .Grad A: So theProfessor C:OK . So , then in terms of people worrying about , uh , excising things from the transcript , it 's unlikely .Since it {disfmarker} it does isn't attributed . Oh , I see , but the a but the {disfmarker} but the{disfmarker}Grad A: Right , so if I said , " Oh , hi Jerry , how are you ? " , we 're not gonna go throughand cancel out the " Jerry "s .Professor C: Yeah . Sure .Grad A: Um , so we will go through and , in thespeaker ID tags there 'll be , you know , M - one O seven , M - one O eight .Professor C: Right .Grad A:Um , but uh ,Professor C: Right .Grad A: um , it w uh , I don't know a good way of doing it on the audio ,and still have people who are doing discourse research be able to use the data .Professor C: OK . Mm -hmm . No , I {disfmarker} I wasn't complaining ,Grad A: Yep .Professor C: I just wanted to understand.Grad A: Right .Professor C: OK .Grad B: Well , we can make up aliases for each of us .Grad A: Yeah , Imean , whatever you wanna do is fine ,Professor C: Right .Grad F: OK .Grad A: but we find that{disfmarker} We want the meeting to be as natural as possible . So , we 're trying to do real meetings.Professor C: OK .Grad A: And so we don't wanna have to do aliasesProfessor C: Right .Grad A: and we


Industrial Designer: Oops That's as far as it goes {vocalsound} .Project Manager: Hi guys uh goodmorning everybody here . And uh I want to introduce myself , uh my name is uh Shrida Daseri and uhI'm a project manager for this new project which we are going to discuss now . So I want to introducefirst of all uh the names and the colleagues here . And what you're uh drawing ?User Interface:{vocalsound} Uh sure my name is Agnes and I'm an user {disfmarker} usability user interface designer.Marketing: {vocalsound} My name is Ed and I do accounting .Project Manager: Uh how you spell yourname uh ?Marketing: E_D_ .Project Manager: E_D_ okay .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: And?Industrial Designer: Do you also do marketing ?Marketing: {vocalsound} No {vocalsound} .ProjectManager: So only accounting ? Okay .Marketing: Accounting , yes .Project Manager: And ?IndustrialDesigner: And I'm Christine ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: and my role in this uhscenario is to be the industrial designer .Project Manager: Industrial designer .Industrial Designer: ButI'm not really one .Project Manager: So who is uh marketing , nobody in the marketMarketing: Marketingis uh , is me {vocalsound} .Project Manager: It's you , okay . So thanks for coming for the meeting firstof all , and uh we have a long time , just twenty-five minutes to discuss about uh this project and the theproject initiation . First of all I want to ask uh Mister Ed about your uh marketing plan and your productplan and uh {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Well I think that we'll see that throughout the day inhow we're going to put this together as a marketing to to market the product . We'll have to see on athrough discussion on where we're gonna go from here and from {disfmarker} with this .ProjectManager: Mm-hmm but uh do you already have like a functional design or a technical design or{disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Uh for the moment not yet .Project Manager: Oh for the momentnot yet , okay , but uh what's what's your uh {disfmarker} do you have some project plan , somethingwith you or {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Good question {vocalsound} . No , this is like I saidthat we have to be discussed between all of us and we'll go from there . We'll have to {disfmarker}simply we'll have to work on it together .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Okay , so uh by when you thinkyou can uh give me some kind of uh project plan , okay , a discussion with uh {disfmarker}Marketing:Certainly by the next meeting .Project Manager: By next meeting , okay that will be great . Uh Okay , sothere's any questions or uh first of all about uh this project ?Industrial Designer: What is the goal of theproject ?Project Manager: Uh the goal of the project I think maybe I'll uh hand out to the Ed , okay , so toexplain uh what is the project because he's in the sales and the accounting .Marketing:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: I'm in the sales I'm supposed to explain themwhat to do {vocalsound} . We have to define exactly what our product is , from uh {disfmarker}ProjectManager: Yes , so can you explain uh what exactly the product is ?Marketing: From what I had in mindwe're supposed to be marketing coffee , is that right ?Project Manager: Oh I think uh , if I'm not wrong ,we're making the remote control .User Interface: Um I was wondering {disfmarker}Marketing: Remotecontrols , 'cause I had two different things . I had a first part of mine was to make a remote control for anew f remote control for television , and afterward I had a discussion about coffee so{vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yes .Marketing: we'll start with the remote control fortelevision then . So we're have to design something that is very user friendly .Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Something uh visual that has something that will will draw peopleto buy the product ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: because I think everybody's experienced withuh remote controls , and some remote controls are are worth uh throwing out the window . Uh th most ofthem ar I don't know we're have to come up with a new idea on how to make it a lot easier to use,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: 'cause a lot of times uh spend uh half a day through theinstruction book trying to figure out how to use it .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: And uh what abo uh Christine , what about your uh the industrial design plan ? Are youhave a design already on this product or uh you're still working on the design ?Industrial Designer: Umno , I I have not begun working on the design ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: and um Iuh I actually didn't know we were designing a remote control , I thought we were designing a new


PhD A: It 's not very significant .Professor B: Uh , channel one . Yes .Grad D: Channel three .Professor B:OK .PhD F: Mm - hmm .Grad D: Channel three .PhD A: TaGrad D: Channel three . Alright .Professor B:OK , did you solve speech recognition last week ?Grad E: Almost .Professor B: Alright ! Let 's do imageprocessing .PhD C: Yes , again .PhD A: Great .PhD C: We did it again , Morgan .Professor B: Alright !GradE: Doo - doop , doo - doo .PhD A: What 's wrong with {disfmarker} ?Professor B: OK . It 's April fifth .Actually , Hynek should be getting back in town shortly if he isn't already .PhD C: Is he gonna come here?Professor B: Uh . Well , we 'll drag him here . I know where he is .PhD C: So when you said " in town " ,you mean {pause} Oregon .Professor B: U u u u uh , I meant , you know , this end of the world , yeah ,{vocalsound} is really what I meant ,PhD C: Oh .Grad E: Doo , doo - doo .Professor B: uh , cuz he 'sbeen in Europe .Grad E: Doo - doo .Professor B: So .PhD C: I have something just fairly brief to report on.Professor B: Mmm .PhD C: Um , I did some {pause} experim uh , uh , just a few more experimentsbefore I had to , {vocalsound} uh , go away for the w well , that week .Professor B: Great !PhD C: Was itlast week or whenever ? Um , so what I was started playing with was the {disfmarker} th again , this isthe HTK back - end . And , um , I was curious because the way that they train up the models ,{vocalsound} they go through about four sort of rounds of {disfmarker} of training . And in the firstround they do {disfmarker} uh , I think it 's three iterations , and for the last three rounds e e they doseven iterations of re - estimation in each of those three . And so , you know , that 's part of what takesso long to train the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the back - end for this .Professor B: I 'm sorry , Ididn't quite get that . There 's {disfmarker} there 's four and there 's seven and {disfmarker} I{disfmarker} I 'm sorry .PhD C: Yeah . Uh , maybe I should write it on the board . So , {vocalsound}there 's four rounds of training . Um , I g I g I guess you could say iterations . The first one is three , thenseven , seven , and seven . And what these numbers refer to is the number of times that the , uh , HMMre - estimation is run . It 's this program called H EProfessor B: But in HTK , what 's the differencebetween , uh , a {disfmarker} an inner loop and an outer loop in these iterations ?PhD C: OK . So whathappens is , um , at each one of these points , you increase the number of Gaussians in the model.Professor B: Yeah . Oh , right ! This was the mix up stuff .PhD C: Yeah . The mix up .Professor B: That 'sright .PhD C: Right .Professor B: I remember now .PhD C: And so , in the final one here , you end up with, uh {disfmarker} for all of the {disfmarker} the digit words , you end up with , uh , three {pause}mixtures per state ,Professor B: Yeah .PhD C: eh , in the final {pause} thing . So I had done someexperiments where I was {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I want to play with the number of mixtures.Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD C: But , um , uh , I wanted to first test to see if we actually need to do{pause} this many iterations early on .Grad E: Uh , one , two ,Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD C: And so ,um , I {disfmarker} I ran a couple of experiments where I {vocalsound} reduced that to l to be three ,two , two , {vocalsound} uh , five , I think , and I got almost the exact same results .Professor B: Mm -hmm .PhD C: And {disfmarker} but it runs much much faster . So , um , I {disfmarker} I think m{pause} it only took something like , uh , three or four hours to do the full training ,Professor B: Asopposed to {disfmarker} ?PhD F: Good .PhD C: as opposed to wh what , sixteen hours or something likethat ? I mean , it takes {disfmarker} you have to do an overnight basically , the way it is set up now .PhDF: Yeah . It depends .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD C: So , uh , even we don't doanything else , doing something like this could allow us to turn experiments around a lot faster .ProfessorB: And then when you have your final thing , do a full one , so it 's {disfmarker}PhD C: And when youhave your final thing , we go back to this .PhD F: Yeah .PhD C: So , um , and it 's a real simple change tomake . I mean , it 's like one little text file you edit and change those numbers , and you don't doanything else .PhD F: Oh , this is a {disfmarker}PhD A: Mm - hmm .PhD C: And then you just run .PhD F:OK .PhD C: So it 's a very simple change to make and it doesn't seem to hurt all that much .PhD A: Soyou {disfmarker} you run with three , two , two , five ? That 's aPhD C: So I {disfmarker} Uh , I{disfmarker} I have to look to see what the exact numbers were .PhD A: Yeah .PhD C: I {disfmarker} Ithought was , like , three , two , two , five ,PhD A: Mm - hmm .PhD C: but I I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll double


Lynne Neagle AM: Good afternoon. Can I welcome Members to the virtual meeting of the Children, YoungPeople and Education Committee this afternoon? In accordance with Standing Order 34.19, I'vedetermined that the public are excluded from the committee's meeting, in order to protect public health.In accordance with Standing Order 34.21, notice of this decision was included in the agenda for thismeeting, which was published last Thursday. This meeting is, however, being broadcast live onSenedd.tv, with all participants joining via video-conference. A record of proceedings will be published asusual. Aside from the procedural adaptation related to conducting proceedings remotely, all otherStanding Order requirements for committees remain in place. The meeting is bilingual, and simultaneoustranslation from Welsh to English is available. Can I remind everyone that the microphones will becontrolled centrally, so there's no need to turn them on and off individually? We've received apologies forabsence from Hefin David AM, and there is no substitution. Can I ask Members if there are anydeclarations of interest, please? No. Okay, thank you. Can I just note for the record that if for any reasonI drop out of the meeting, the committee has agreed that Dawn Bowden AM will temporarily chair while Itry to rejoin? Moving on, then, to item 2 this afternoon, which is an evidence session with the WelshGovernment in relation to the impact of the coronavirus pandemic on health and social services as theyrelate to children and young people in Wales. I'm very pleased to welcome Vaughan Gething AM, theMinister for Health and Social Services; Julie Morgan AM, Deputy Minister for Health and Social Services;Albert Heaney, deputy director general of the health and social services group; Nicola Edwards, deputydirector, childcare, play and early years; Jean White, chief nursing officer; and Tracey Breheny, who isdeputy director of mental health, substance misuse and vulnerable groups. Thank you all very much foryour attendance today—we appreciate your time. We've got lots of questions that we'd like to cover,which we'll go straight into, with questions from Siân Gwenllian.Sian Gwenllian AM: Good afternoon. Howmuch do we understand about how this virus impacts children and young people, and their role intransmitting the virus? And how important is it that this is considered in the Welsh Government's exitstrategy, especially in the context of reopening schools?Vaughan Gething AM: Okay. I think it's fair to saythat our understanding is developing across all age ranges about the virus and its impact. It's still thecase that children and young people are less likely to be affected significantly by COVID-19 than peoplewith a range of healthcare conditions, and in particular the age grade that we've seen, and that'sunderpinned the advice we've given to the whole population about self-isolation by people in agecategories, as well as the extremely vulnerable group we advise to shield. We still don't understandeverything about the role that children have to play in the transmitting of the virus, and this is one of thedifficulties we face. Because in cold and flu, children transmit the virus and they're also susceptible, inparticular to the flu, as well; that's why we have a childhood immunisation programme for the flu as well.We do know that there's some developing evidence about what's called a Kawasaki-like syndrome, butthat's affecting very small numbers of children. We have one possible case in Wales—a child who's incritical care—but that isn't confirmed. That's still a developing knowledge base. So, the rest of the worldis still trying to understand that too. But the generals still apply—that children are less likely to beaffected than older people, but can nevertheless still become unwell, and that's, if you like, one of the fewpositives in this condition. But as I say, we're still learning, so I won't try and present a fully accurate orfinalised picture of knowledge in this area.Sian Gwenllian AM: And in terms—[Inaudible.]VaughanGething AM: Chair. Sorry. Excuse me, Chair. Sorry—with apologies to the Member, my translationstopped after a while, so I heard the first part translated, and then it just fell off. I'm really sorry, but Ididn't want to try to answer a different question to the one that may be being asked, and don't thinkthat's fair to the Member or other members of the committee.Lynne Neagle AM: Can we check thattranslation is back on, please, and maybe Siân could repeat her question?Vaughan Gething AM: I canhear it, yes.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, Siân, would you mind repeating that, please?Sian Gwenllian AM: Notat all. I was discussing NHS services, including critical care services, and I was asking whether there issufficient capacity in place to manage any increase. We, of course, hope that there won't be any increase,


Project Manager: So {disfmarker} Hello . {vocalsound}Marketing: Good afternoon . Sorry I'm a little late.Project Manager: No problem .Marketing: Got stuck in the traffic .Project Manager: Okay .{vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: That'spossible on uh this time of day . Starts at three o'clock . Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Uh , let me see . Our fourth and last meeting . There he is . Yes . Okay this our lastmeeting . In this meeting we will discuss our final design . And we will do some evaluation about the , notonly the product , but also the project . And then we're going to close the project today as well . So afterthis you will be uh free to go and uh spend all your money . {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager:And this uh design , detailed design meeting uh we will discuss uh the look-and-feel of the design , theusability interface design , and we will do the product evaluation . Um , in order to do that we have thisagenda . We'll have the prototype presentation first . Then we will set up some evaluation cri um criteria .{vocalsound} Then we will look at the finance . Uh we will have to see if everything we wanna do is alsopossible within our budget . Because everything costs money , and the more functions you wanna havethe more money it will cost . So we have to see if it fits within the twelve and a half Euro per remote . Butwe will see that later . Then we will do the project uh evaluation , and the closing after that .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}Project Manager: We've got forty minutes . So we will be finished at half pastthree . But first um we will do the {disfmarker} this is prototype presentation . So , if some yeah ifsomebody wants step forward .Industrial Designer: Okay . Well this is what me and Richard came up with. The default spot for the on-off button . The mute button just below that . Then there's the volume andchannel selectors . Simple plus-minus button . Uh we thought of a help button . If you hold it and youpress another button , uh the help goes to the L_C_D_ screen . Then there's the zero to {disfmarker} oneto zero buttons . A button for teletext . A button for the subtitles . And the company logo . So it's rathersimple prototype . And uh we'll have to see from testing uh how the users take it .Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Um , {vocalsound} is this the moment where we ask or can ask questions about thefunctionality ?User Interface: So {disfmarker} Yeah . Yeah .Industrial Designer: Sure uh just pop in atany time .Marketing: Um , when you're in teletext there usually are buttons where you just you just pressit and you g go to the next teletext page .User Interface: Uh , that's just uh the normal uh as th as thenormal uh remote controls uh {disfmarker} So um {disfmarker} You put it uh {disfmarker} you umcame in uh page uh one hundred . Now you can use the normal uh one to zero buttons .Marketing:Mm-hmm .User Interface: And you {disfmarker} But you can also uh use the um button th for uhchanging the the channel . S so uh the shifting uh button . Uh for uh yeah shif shifting up in uh on t on tuh teletext , and shifting uh down . So {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay . Okay . Um {disfmarker} Yeah.Project Manager: Okay . Uh but um I thought in a few meetings earlier we uh uh tried to keep it uhsimple . Uh just a few buttons and large buttons .User Interface: Oh yeah ?Project Manager: But uh Ithink these are altogether quite a quite a few buttons . So I'm wondering if we if we neely {disfmarker}really need all of those buttons .User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I think ifyou look at most controls , they've got more buttons than this .Project Manager: That's right .UserInterface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: And well the on-off button , it's it's a necessity .Project Manager:Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: You can't drop that one . The volume and channelbuttons , you need you obviously need those those .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Themute button could be replaced uh by pressing the volume-down button twice . So we could cancel thatone . I think the help button really is necessaryUser Interface: Yeah yeah .Industrial Designer: becausethere's no other way to know when someone wants to know what a button does .Project Manager: Mm.User Interface: Uh , or you can build in uh when you press uh one button uh uh {disfmarker}ProjectManager: Long time . Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: If you put {disfmarker}UserInterface: But m Yeah . We disc discuss that already . But uh we think uh old people uh don't know thatuh option . So uh they just put in uh put {vocalsound} press uh the button and uh {disfmarker}Project


Grad A: OK , we 're on .Professor B: Yeah .Grad A: So , I think this is gonna be a pretty short meetingbecause I have four agenda items , three of them were requested by Jane who is not gonna be at themeeting today .  So . {vocalsound} The uh first was transcription status . Does anyone besides Janeknow what the transcription status is ?PhD F: Um , sort of , I do , peripherally .PhD C: Is that English?PhD F: Um {disfmarker} Well first of all with IBM I got a note from Brian yesterday saying that theyfinally made the tape for the thing that we sent them a {pause} week or week and a half agoPhD D: That's our system .Grad A: Ugh !PhD F: and that it 's gone out to the transcribers and hopefully next week we'll have the transcription back from that .Grad A: C can I have a pen ?PhD F: Um {disfmarker} Janeseems to be um moving right along on the transcriptions from the ICSI side . She 's assigned , I thinkprobably five or six m more meetings .PhD C: Yeah , I think we 're up to MR thirteen or something .PhDD: Mmm .PhD F: Yeah , so um , I guess she 's hired some new transcribersPhD D: Speaking{disfmarker}Grad E: Which meetings is she transcribing ?PhD F: and {disfmarker} Um well we 've{disfmarker} we 've run out of E D Us because a certain number of them are um , sort of awaiting to goto IBM .Grad E: OK .PhD C: For IBM , yeah .PhD D: Hmm .Grad E: OK .PhD F: and the rest are in processbeing transcribed uh here .PhD D: So does she have transcribers right now who are basically sitting idlebecause there 's no data back from IBMGrad E: So we 're doing some in parallel .Grad A: Yep .PhD F: No.Grad A: No , no .PhD F: Oh no no .Grad A: We haven't done that process .PhD D: no ?PhD F: No . We 'renot waiting on them .Grad A: So . They ' r they 're doing the full transcription process .PhD D: Oh . Oh ,OK .Grad E: So they 're just doing their own thing until {disfmarker}PhD F: Yeah .PhD D: Because I{disfmarker} I need to ask Jane whether it 's {disfmarker} it would be OK for her {disfmarker} um , ssome of her people to transcribe uh some of the initial data we got from the SmartKom data collection ,which is these short like five or seven minute sessions .PhD F: We 're doing it in parallel , yeah .Grad E:OK .PhD C: Yep .PhD D: Um and we want it {disfmarker} You know , we need {disfmarker} The{disfmarker} Again , we {disfmarker} we have a similar uh logistic set - up where we are supposed tosend the data to MunichGrad A: Right .PhD D: and get it transcribed and get it back . But to get going wewould like some of the data transcribed right away so we can get started .Grad A: Yep , sounds familiar.PhD D: And so um I wanted to ask Jane if {disfmarker} if uh , you know , maybe one of theirtranscribers could {disfmarker} could do {disfmarker} I mean since these are very short , that shouldreally be uh ,Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD D: um {disfmarker} It 's {disfmarker}PhD C: There 's onlytwo channels . So it 's only {disfmarker} Yeah .PhD D: Yeah .PhD C: As the synthesis doesn't have to betranscribed I think .PhD D: It 's only two {disfmarker} Right , sPhD C: So .PhD D: Yeah . So{disfmarker} So it 's basically one channel to transcribe . And it 's {disfmarker} One session is only uhlike seven {disfmarker}Professor B: So that should have ma many fewer {disfmarker} And it 's also notuh a bunch of interruptions with people and all that ,PhD D: Right . And some of it is read speech , so wecould give them the {disfmarker} the thing that they 're readingProfessor B: right ? So . Yeah .PhD D:and they just may {disfmarker}Grad A: Make sure it 's right .PhD C: Yep .PhD D: And so um , um , Iguess since she 's {disfmarker} I was gonna ask her but since she 's not around I {disfmarker} maybe I'll {disfmarker}Professor B: Yeah , well it certainly seems {disfmarker}PhD D: Uh if {disfmarker} if that's OK with you to {disfmarker} to , you know , get that stuff uh {disfmarker} to ask her for that , then I'll do that .Professor B: Yeah . Yeah , if we 're held up on this other stuff a little bit in order to encompassthat , that 's OK because I I um , I mean I still have high hopes that the that the IBM pipeline 'll work outfor us , so it 's {disfmarker}PhD D: Yeah . OK , yeah .Professor B: Yeah .PhD D: Alrighty .PhD F: Oh ,yeah , and also related to the transcription stuff , so I 've been trying to keep a web page uh up to date fshowing what the current status is of the trans of all the things we 've collected and what stage eachmeeting is in , in terms of whether it 's {disfmarker}Grad A: Can you mail that out to the list ?PhD F: Mm- hmm , yeah I will . I {disfmarker} That 's the thing that I sent out just to foo people saying can youupdate these pagesGrad A: Oh , OK , OK .PhD F: and so that 's where I 'm putting it but I 'll {disfmarker}I 'll send it out to the list telling people to look at it .Grad A: Yeah , I haven't done that . So . I have lots


Project Manager: Okay um , welcome to our detailed design meeting . I'm pretty excited . Let's start it'sapproximately fifteen forty or something like that . Okay um the agenda {disfmarker} we're gonna do anopening and then um I'll talk about the minutes from the last meeting , what we d discussed um , thenwe'll have the prototype presentation and a look at the evaluation criteria . We'll look at the finances andfinally a {disfmarker} do a production evaluation and close . So , starting off with the um last{disfmarker} the last one , oh I don't have it here um , but we talked about energy , we're gonna use akinetic battery um , we want to use a simple chip , because we're not gonna need a a shuffle um , we'regonna need a scroll um , we're choosing a latex case w in fruity colours that's curved and um we're usingpush buttons uh with a supplement of an on-screen menu . And it sounded like we had set um like eightor nine buttons , including five pre-set channels . Okay ? Let's do the look and feel design presentationfirst .User Interface: Right , do you wanna start ?Industrial Designer: Right , well we made three differentprototypes and I guess we'll start with with this one . Um we have our colours not {disfmarker} are notfixed , but this is the general shape . Um it's {disfmarker} you hold it sort of either like like this in yourleft hand or you switch it over and uh it's easily adaptable to either hand . You can push the buttons withyour thumb like a mobile phone , or you can push them with your index finger of your other hand , oreven {disfmarker} I mean there's a whole variety , you can hold it like this and press it with your sameindex finger . Uh we have the on off button at the tip , very visible , very big . We have our up and downbuttons , which are also gonna be our channel selectors , and we have our little menu button here . If youpush {disfmarker} if you're just pushing these normally , they're the menu buttons , if {disfmarker} uhthe volume buttons rather . If you press select once , they become channel changing buttons . If wepress select three times , the menu with the other features and pro possibly also with your T_V_ channelchoices shows up , and you have your five presets down here . Um if people wanna grab hold of that , seehow it feels in your hand . That's our number one prototype . Um do you wanna present the potato,Project Manager: {gap} like a little lightning in it .Industrial Designer: or shall I present the Martian?User Interface: Okay ,Project Manager: The little lightning bolt in it , very cute .User Interface: um{disfmarker} What {disfmarker} We call that one the rhombus ,Marketing: I could {disfmarker}ProjectManager: The v the rhombus rhombus ?User Interface: uh the rhombus .Industrial Designer: That's therhombus , yep .User Interface: Um this one is known as the potato , uh it'sIndustrial Designer:{vocalsound}User Interface: it's a {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: how can Ipresent it ? It's an ergonomic shape , so it it fits in your hand nicely . Um it's designed to be used eitherin your left hand or or in your right hand . Um I've gone here just for just for four buttons on this one .Um the two blue buttons here are for adjusting the volume . So you've got volume up and volume downon the other side here . Um the red ones are for uh changing channels , channel up and channel downand that's um moves between your favourite channels that you've selected . Uh this middle button herebrings up the on-screen menu and when you're working in the on-screen menu you use the other fourbuttons to navigate around the menu system and the middle button uh to select and that's basically it ,that's the potato .Project Manager: Um on , off ?User Interface: Uh that would be one of your channels ,basically ,Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: so like channel zero would be t to switch switch themachine off ,Project Manager: Yeah we turn it off .User Interface: yeah .Marketing: Could the middlebutton of the on-screen menu function as a power button ?User Interface: Um not really ,IndustrialDesigner: {gap}User Interface: it would make it hard to turn the machine off , to turn your T_V_ off.Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: If you pressed and held it maybe .User Interface: Yeahyeah , that that'd be one way of doing it , yeah . That'd work , yeah .Marketing: If you like held it down ,that would be on off .Industrial Designer: Yeah . On off , that's a possibility , yeah .Project Manager:Okay .Industrial Designer: And then finally we have um the Martian or the pear , either way . Um it's a bitdifferent , just a little bit more of a creative feel . Uh you have the on off toggle stem on the top .{vocalsound} We have the five preset seeds {vocalsound} .Project Manager: {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound} And then you have on the sides to make it a little bit more three-dimensional ,


Grad B: So I guess this is more or less now just to get you up to date , Johno . This is what , uh ,Grad C:This is a meeting for me .Grad B: um , Eva , Bhaskara , and I did .Grad D: Did you add more stuff to it ?{pause} later ?Grad B: Um . Why ?Grad D: Um . I don't know . There were , like , the {disfmarker} youknow , @ @ and all that stuff . But . I thought you {disfmarker} you said you were adding stuffGrad B:Uh , no .Grad D: but {pause} I don't know .Grad B: This is {disfmarker} Um , Ha ! Very nice . Um , sowe thought that , {vocalsound} We can write up uh , an element , and {disfmarker} for each of thesituation nodes that we observed in the Bayes - net ? So . What 's the situation like at the entity that ismentioned ? if we know anything about it ? Is it under construction ? Or is it on fire or something{pause} happening to it ? Or is it stable ? and so forth , going all the way um , f through Parking ,Location , Hotel , Car , Restroom , @ @ {comment} Riots , Fairs , Strikes , or Disasters .Grad C: So is{disfmarker} This is {disfmarker} A situation are {disfmarker} is all the things which can be happeningright now ? Or , what is the situation type ?Grad B: That 's basically {pause} just specifying the{disfmarker} the input for the {disfmarker} w what 'sGrad C: Oh , I see y Why are you specifying it inXML ?Grad B: Um . Just because it forces us to be specific about the values {pause} here ?Grad C: OK.Grad B: And , also , I mean , this is a {disfmarker} what the input is going to be . Right ? So , we will ,uh {disfmarker} This is a schema . This is {disfmarker}Grad C: Well , yeah . I just don't know if this is thl what the {disfmarker} Does {disfmarker} This is what Java Bayes takes ? as a Bayes - net spec ?GradB: No , because I mean if we {disfmarker} I mean we 're sure gonna interface to {disfmarker} We 'regonna get an XML document from somewhere . Right ? And that XML document will say " We are able to{disfmarker} We were able to observe that w the element , um , @ @ {comment} of the Location thatthe car is near . " So that 's gonna be {disfmarker} {vocalsound} {comment} Um .Grad C: So this is thesituational context , everything in it . Is that what Situation is short for , shi situational context ?Grad B:Yep .Grad C: OK .Grad B: So this is just , again , a an XML schemata which defines a set of possible , uh ,permissible XML structures , which we view as input into the Bayes - net . Right ?Grad C: And then wecan r {pause} uh possibly run one of them uh transformations ? That put it into the format that theBayes n or Java Bayes or whatever wants ?Grad B: Yea - Are you talking {disfmarker} are you talkingabout the {disfmarker} the structure ?Grad C: Well it {disfmarker}Grad B: I mean when you observe anode .Grad C: When you {disfmarker} when you say {pause} the input to the {pause} v Java Bayes ,{comment} it takes a certain format ,Grad B: Um - hmm .Grad C: right ? Which I don't think is this .Although I don't know .Grad B: No , it 's certainly not this . Nuh .Grad C: So you could just {disfmarker}Couldn't you just run a {disfmarker}Grad B: XSL . {comment} Yeah .Grad C: Yeah . To convert it intothe Java Bayes for format ?Grad B: Yep .Grad C: OK .Grad B: That 's {disfmarker} That 's no problem ,but I even think that , um {disfmarker} I mean , once {disfmarker} Once you have this sort of as{disfmarker} running as a module {disfmarker} Right ? What you want is {disfmarker} You wanna say ," OK , give me the posterior probabilities of the Go - there {pause} node , when this is happening . "Right ? When the person said this , the car is there , it 's raining , and this is happening . And with thisyou can specify the {disfmarker} what 's happening in the situation , and what 's happening with the user. So we get {disfmarker} After we are done , through the Situation we get the User Vector . So , this is a{disfmarker}Grad C: So this is just a specification of all the possible inputs ?Grad B: Yep . And , all thepossible outputs , too . So , we have , um , for example , the , uh , Go - there decision nodeGrad C: OK.Grad B: which has two elements , going - there and its posterior probability , and not - going - there andits posterior probability , because the output is always gonna be all the decision nodes and all the{disfmarker} the {disfmarker} a all the posterior probabilities for all the values .Grad C: And then wewould just look at the , eh , Struct that we wanna look at in terms of if {disfmarker} if we 're only askingabout one of the {disfmarker} So like , if I 'm just interested in the going - there node , I would just pullthat information out of the Struct that gets return that would {disfmarker} that Java Bayes would output?Grad B: Um , pretty much , yes , but I think it 's a little bit more complex . As , if I understand itcorrectly , it always gives you all the posterior probabilities for all the values of all decision nodes . So ,


The Chair (Hon. Anthony Rota (NipissingTimiskaming, Lib.)): I call this meeting to order. Welcome tomeeting number 22 of the House of Commons Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic. Areminder to all members that in order to avoid issues with sound, members participating in person shouldnot also be connected to the video conference. For those joining via video conference, I would like toremind you that, when speaking, you should be on the same channel as the language you are speaking.As usual, please direct your remarks through the chair. I understand we don't have any ministerialannouncements today, so we'll proceed to presenting petitions. I would like to remind members that anypetition presented during a meeting of the special committee must have already been certified by theclerk of petitions. For members participating in person, we ask that they please come and drop the signedcertificate off at the table once the petition is presented. The first petition will be presented byMs.May.Ms. Elizabeth May (SaanichGulf Islands, GP): Mr. Chair, it's an honour to rise in meeting number22 of the COVID-19 committee, otherwise known as something like the House of Commons. I'm here topresent two petitions containing hundreds of signatures on the issue of the treatment of Falun Gongpractitioners by the People's Republic of China, particularly the practice that's alleged of involuntaryorgan harvesting. The petitioners ask the Government of Canada to condemn this practice and to publiclycall for an end to the persecution of Falun Gong in the People's Republic of China. The second petition isfrom residents throughout SaanichGulf Islands concerned about what was, at the time this petition wassubmitted, a future problem. It remains an issue, and I present it on behalf of petitioners who wish theGovernment of Canada not to put public funds into purchasing or maintaining the Trans Mountain pipelineor towards any expansion of the pipeline.The Chair: Next we'll go to Ms. Kwan.Ms. Jenny Kwan(Vancouver East, NDP): Mr. Chair, I rise to table two petitions. The first petition deals with the COVID-19situation. The petitioners note the pandemic is having a devastating impact on many Canadiansnationwide, especially those who have low to modest income, small business gig workers, freelancers,artists, film industry workers, non-salaried workers and individuals on fixed incomes such as seniors andthose on disability. It further notes that rent, mortgage and utility payments are due at the end of eachmonth, putting countless Canadians at risk of losing their housing. It is paramount there be safeself-isolation opportunities for all individuals in this country. To that end, the petitioners are calling forthe government to immediately enact a nationwide rent freeze, eviction freeze, mortgage freeze andutility freeze, enforce mortgage deferrals for homeowners without penalty or interest charges fromfinancial institutions and provide direct assistance in the form of a monthly, universal, direct payment of$2,000 per month for all, with an additional $250 per child immediately. The second petition deals withthe Trans Mountain pipeline expansion. These petitioners join the hundreds of thousands of people whoare opposed to the expansion. Trans Mountain, in building the pipeline, brings massive environmentaland economic risk with no substantial benefit to British Columbia or to local residents. Approximately40,000 barrels of oil have already leaked from existing Kinder Morgan pipelines, including two major spillsin Burnaby since 2007. I might note, Mr. Chair, that just this past weekend there was yet another spill tothe tune of 1,195 barrels here in British Columbia. There is no known scientific technology to clean up thebitumen when there is a spill, and the number of tankers would go from eight to 34 per month into theBurrard Inlet. It puts at risk many residential neighbourhoods and the traditional territories of at least 15first nations.The Chair: May I interrupt for a moment, Ms. Kwan. I want to remind all members in theHouse that when presenting a petition, the idea is to be as concise as possible. Ms. Kwan, I'll let you wrapup, please.Ms. Jenny Kwan: Thank you, Mr. Chair. The petitioners are calling for the government toimmediately act to prevent this new oil pipeline from proceeding through British Columbia.The Chair:Thank you. We'll now go to Mr. Genuis.Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood ParkFort Saskatchewan, CPC): Mr.Chair, I have four petitions to present today. The first petition reflects the outrage of my constituents atthe ever-expanding order in council from the government banning more and more firearms. In particular,the petitioners highlight the failure of the government to act on the issue of illegal guns. The petitionersnote that virtually all violent crimes committed in Canada, including the recent shooting in Nova Scotia,


Project Manager: Afternoon guys . It's gonna be {gap} .Marketing: Rock and roll .Project Manager: Oh .{vocalsound} {gap} 'Kay .Marketing: So do we need to re-train Mike on how to put his mic on ?ProjectManager: We may do .Industrial Designer: Think sMarketing: Okay , can he get it all by himself this time?Project Manager: I dunno , I'm feeling like a big boy .Industrial Designer: Mm . ProMarketing:{gap}Industrial Designer: Probably not , 'cause he's 'S been listening to {gap} too much .Marketing: So{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: He's getting retarded . Yay .Marketing: I believe I can fly .UserInterface: Alright well we got some exciting stuff for you guys .Industrial Designer: Or not .UserInterface: Or not . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Just what I needed was somethingexciting . Remember , I'm an old man .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: 'Kay , ready togo ?User Interface: All ready .Project Manager: 'Kay so we've got our conceptual design meeting.Industrial Designer: Apparently I'm old as well .Project Manager: Hopefully we've all got exciting ideasnow .Marketing: Thirty's really young , eh ?User Interface: {vocalsound} We do .Project Manager: Uh kexciting ideas . 'Kay so here's our agenda our agenda . UmIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}ProjectManager: I'm gonna open . I'm gonna talk for a bit about what we're gonna do . I'm gonna take somenotes . We're gonna all do a presentation , and then hopefully we're gonna make some decisions now .{vocalsound} Yep . {vocalsound} Well when I say hopefully , we have to . SoUser Interface: Alright.Project Manager: I'm gonna let you guys talk before we make decisions . And does anyone really want togo first ?User Interface: I guess I'll go first .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: You p two?User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: What's {disfmarker}User Interface: Component , I think . Yeah.Project Manager: Components design .User Interface: Yep that's it .Industrial Designer: Presented byname . {vocalsound}User Interface: My name is {vocalsound} .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yourname is name ?Marketing: Jose he man is .User Interface: My name is name .Project Manager: Huh hiname .Industrial Designer: My name is Inigo Montoya .Project Manager: {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: You killed my father .User Interface: {vocalsound} Sorry I did this in a bit of a rush .IndustrialDesigner: Prepare to die . {vocalsound}Marketing: N name .Project Manager: Right . {vocalsound}UserInterface: So so here's a look inside your really old-looking remote control . Um you've got {vocalsound}a printed {vocalsound} a printed uh circuit board here , and you've got all these buttons which kindapress down little rubber {vocalsound} nubbies into these little holes that activate {disfmarker}Marketing:{vocalsound}Project Manager: We've all broke a remote control ri um s yeah . {vocalsound}UserInterface: Yeah we've all broken a remote control .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound} I've {disfmarker}User Interface: So you've also got um {disfmarker} you've got your chiphere , your batteries here , and some sorta electronics . Um {disfmarker}Marketing: I just love you techguys , huh .Industrial Designer: Yeah there's a thingy and a dingy and {disfmarker}Project Manager:{vocalsound} You press this and it does thUser Interface: Well {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing:{vocalsound} Yeah y do jabber {vocalsound}User Interface: so you've got {disfmarker} here's here's atransistor , and this amplifies your signal ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: um you'vegot the L_E_D_ here on the end of the uh uh on the end of the printed circuit board . Um you've got acouple diodes here for I don't know who and whatnot {vocalsound} .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Idunno who and whatnot .User Interface: So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} exactly .Industrial Designer: Nah.User Interface: So um we've got a {disfmarker} i in this in this uh drawing he uh in this example here ,this is a eighteen pin um uh chip {vocalsound} I dunno .Marketing: P Yeah .User Interface: Uh it's twodouble A_ batteries .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: This is pretty standard remote . Sohere are options for our power sources . You can use a basic battery , which we've already discussed , um{vocalsound} th our tech department also said we have the option of doing some kind of hand dynamowhere maybe you crank it or something like that .Project Manager: {vocalsound} 'Kay .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I wanna change that {vocalsound} .User Interface: Idon't know if that's really {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I I gotta I gotta flashlight , and uh{disfmarker}User Interface: I don't know we got some qu crazy guys down there in that department so


Marketing: Just put it on the deskt {gap} desktop .Project Manager: No on the desktop you'll find youshould find that there's a project documents link . A well actually just there .Marketing: Projectdocuments ,Project Manager: Yeah . That's it .Marketing: yeah .Project Manager: If you dump it in there.Marketing: What's your username ?Project Manager: Your username .Marketing: What's your usernameand password ? Mm-hmm . Sorry .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Okay . There we go .ProjectManager: Excellent . Right . Hopefully that's us ready to uh to go . So . Functional design meeting . We'llhave to flesh out some of the uh stuff . Um we'll start with the minutes of the last meeting . Not a lotthankfully to say . We introduced ourselves , discussed the possibility of a macro facility , interacinteracting the T_V_ a bit more , um mentioning of bar-code , joystick for user manipulation , um andergonomics of the remote control as well . Um it's come to my attention the following . Teletext hasbecome outdated due to the populat popularity of the internet . Remote control should only be used forthe T_V_ . Um due for uh time to market and possibly also cost issues . Um also key is the corporateimage should stay recognisable , um f uh your colour and slogan of course is down at the bottom there .Um . Now . Just to say quickly uh I would have thought that only being used for a television the macrofacility may now not be required .User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: Um or at l its functionality wouldhave been of limited use . So to the point in my opinion anyway that it might not be worth pursuing . Umif anybody disagrees we can uh definitely say so . Um and hopefully we'll just crack on and we'll geteverything going . Um I'd like to if possible hear from our Marketing Expert first , to help us gain an ideaof where we're going to go .Marketing: 'Kay .Project Manager: So um I'll just load up your presentationfrom here if you want .Marketing: Sure . Um , sh would you like to {vocalsound} I'll just do it from here.Project Manager: Yep . Sorry . Uh . Is yours the {disfmarker}Marketing: Um , try second one maybe .Try it , yeah maybe .Project Manager: Oh sorry . Okay , right .Marketing: Yeah . Okay . Oh , I thought Iput in my last name , I guess not , but {gap} .Project Manager: Uh if you {disfmarker} that's all right . Ifyou {disfmarker} do you want me to just cycle through it for you or ?Marketing: Okay . {vocalsound} Ohyeah , that'd be fine , that'd be great .Project Manager: Yeah ?Marketing: Okay . Functional requirementby me Ebenezer . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Okay , so um we did some research ,we asked one hundred people their opinions on remote controls . We asked some uh open endedquestions , just , what are your opinions on the remote control , got a lot of re responses , and we askedsome very specific questions , and we got a lot of good feedback . Please bear in mind this is only ahundred people , so even when the groups are divided into fifteen to twenty five , twenty five to thirtyfive , there's only maybe ten people {vocalsound} fifteen people in each group .Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Okay . {vocalsound} So we got {disfmarker} some the bad stuff we got , remotes are oftenlost . I often lose my remote control , the back of the couch , some place , and even if it's not lostpermanently , it takes me a few minutes to find it . {vocalsound} Most buttons are not used any more ,like you said , teletext is outdated now . I remember trying to load a D_V_D_ player recently , and therewere so many buttons , it took me I don't know maybe ten minutes to to go through each button , 'causeyou have to press the shift button to access the yellow buttons , you know there's just a lot of stuff thatno one really uses . And if they do , not very often . Takes too long to master the remote control . I'veseen some remote controls that are big , they have a lot of buttons , you have to hold down more thanone key at one time to do something , they're just not great to use . We just got a lot of bad complaintsabout remote controls , people do not like remote controls . Some of the good stuff we got . Between theage of uh fifteen and twenty five , most people would be willing to pay extra for voice recognitionsoftware . Now don't get excited yet , I've got more to say on that . Most people'd be willing to pay forthat um most people want remote controls to be pretty , they want it to be fancy , th they they want it tobe different , everybody has a white remote control with black buttons , and a red button and a greenbutton , not everybody wants that . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Finally , my opinion .Project Manager:Yep .Marketing: The voice recognition thing is cool . And uh voice recognition , the software , open sourcesoftware exist already . It's a bit sketchy at some times , uh , you're not gonna get good always accurate


Professor D: OK .PhD A: Mike . Mike - one ?PhD B: Ah .Professor D: We 're on ? Yes , please . I mean ,we 're testing noise robustness but let 's not get silly . OK , so , uh , you 've got some , uh , Xerox thingsto pass out ?PhD A: Yeah ,Professor D: That are {disfmarker}PhD A: um .Professor D: Yeah .PhD A: Yeah. Yeah , I 'm sorry for the table , but as it grows in size , uh , it .Professor D: Uh , so for th the lastcolumn we use our imagination . OK .PhD B: Ah , yeah .Professor D: Ah .PhD A: Uh , yeah .PhD B: Uh ,do you want @ @ .Professor D: This one 's nice , though . This has nice big font .PhD A: Yeah .Grad C:Let 's see . Yeah . Chop !Professor D: Yeah .PhD A: SoProfessor D: When you get older you have thesedifferent perspectives . I mean , lowering the word hour rate is fine , but having big font !PhD A: Nexttime we will put colors or something .Professor D: That 's what 's {disfmarker}PhD A: Uh .Professor D:Yeah . It 's mostly big font . OK .PhD A: OK , s so there is kind of summary of what has been done{disfmarker}Professor D: Uh {disfmarker} Go ahead .PhD A: It 's this . Summary of experiments since ,well , since last weekProfessor D: Oh . OK .PhD A: and also since the {disfmarker} we 've started to run{disfmarker} work on this . Um . {pause} So since last week we 've started to fill the column with um{vocalsound} uh features w with nets trained on PLP with on - line normalization but with delta also ,because the column was not completely {disfmarker}Professor D: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm . PhD A: well ,it 's still not completely filled ,Professor D: PhD A: but {pause} we have more results to compare withnetwork using without PLP and {pause} finally , hhh , {comment} um {pause} ehhh {comment} PL - uhdelta seems very important . Uh {pause} I don't know . If you take um , let 's say , anyway Aurora - two- B , so , the next {disfmarker} t the second , uh , part of the table ,Professor D: Mm - hmm .PhD A: uh{pause} when we use the large training set using French , Spanish , and English , you have one hundredand six without delta and eighty - nine with the delta .Professor D: a And again all of these numbers arewith a hundred percent being , uh , the baseline performance ,PhD A: Yeah , on the baseline , yeah . So{disfmarker}Professor D: but with a mel cepstra system going straight into the HTK ?PhD A: Yeah . Yeah. So now we see that the gap between the different training set is much {pause} uh uh muchsmallerProfessor D: Yes .PhD A: um {disfmarker}Grad C: It 's out of the way .PhD A: But , actually , um ,for English training on TIMIT is still better than the other languages . And  Mmm , {pause} Yeah . And falso for Italian , actually . If you take the second set of experiment for Italian , so , the mismatchedcondition ,Professor D: Mm - hmm .PhD A: um {pause} when we use the training on TIMIT so , it 's multi- English , we have a ninety - one number ,Professor D: Mm - hmm .PhD A: and training with otherlanguages is a little bit worse .Professor D: Um {disfmarker} Oh , I see . Down near the bottom of thissheet .PhD A: So ,Professor D: Uh , {comment} {pause} yes .PhD A: yeah .Professor D: OK .PhD A: And, yeah , and here the gap is still more important between using delta and not using delta . If y if I takethe training s the large training set , it 's {disfmarker} we have one hundred and seventy - two ,ProfessorD: Yes .PhD A: and one hundred and four when we use delta .Professor D: Yeah .PhD A: Uh . {pause}Even if the contexts used is quite the same ,Professor D: Mm - hmm .PhD A: because without delta weuse seventeenths {disfmarker} seventeen frames . Uh . Yeah , um , so the second point is that we haveno single cross - language experiments , uh , that we did not have last week . Uh , so this is training thenet on French only , or on English only , and testing on Italian .Professor D: Mm - hmm .PhD A: Andtraining the net on French only and Spanish only and testing on , uh TI - digits .Professor D: Mm - hmm.PhD A: And , fff {comment} um , yeah . What we see is that these nets are not as good , except for themulti - English , which is always one of the best . Yeah , then we started to work on a large dat databasecontaining , uh , sentences from the French , from the Spanish , from the TIMIT , from SPINE , uh from{comment} uh English digits , and from Italian digits . So this is the {disfmarker} another line{disfmarker} another set of lines in the table . Uh , @ @ with SPINEProfessor D: Ah , yes . Mm - hmm.PhD A: and {pause} uh , actually we did this before knowing the result of all the data , uh , so we haveto to redo the uh {disfmarker} the experiment training the net with , uh PLP , but with delta .ButProfessor D: Mm - hmm .PhD A: um this {disfmarker} this net performed quite well . Well , it 's{disfmarker} it 's better than the net using French , Spanish , and English only . Uh . So , uh , yeah . We


Professor B: I think for two years we were two months , uh , away from being done .PhD A: And whatwas that , Morgan ? What project ?Professor B: Uh , the , uh , TORRENT chip .PhD A: Oh .Professor B:Yeah . We were two {disfmarker} we were {disfmarker}PhD C: Yeah .Professor B: Uh , uh , we wentthrough it {disfmarker} Jim and I went through old emails at one point and {disfmarker} and for twoyears there was this thing saying , yeah , we 're {disfmarker} we 're two months away from being done .It was very {disfmarker} very believable schedules , too . I mean , we went through and {disfmarker}with the schedules {disfmarker} and we {disfmarker}PhD A: It was true for two years .Professor B: Yeah. Oh , yeah . It was very true .PhD A: So , should we just do the same kind of deal where we {pause} goaround and do , uh , status report {pause} kind of things ? OK . And I guess when Sunil gets here he cando his last or something . So .Professor B: Yeah . So we {pause} probably should wait for him to comebefore we do his .PhD C: Mm - hmm .PhD A: OK . That 's a good idea .Professor B: Yeah .Grad F: OK.Professor B: Yeah .PhD A: Any objection ? Do y OK , MProfessor B: All in favorPhD A: Do you want tostart , Morgan ? Do you have anything , or {disfmarker} ?Professor B: Uh , I don't do anything . I{disfmarker} No , I mean , I {disfmarker} I 'm involved in discussions with {disfmarker} with peopleabout what they 're doing , but I think they 're {disfmarker} since they 're here , they can talk about itthemselves .Grad F: OK . So should I go so that , uh ,PhD A: Yeah . Why don't you go ahead , Barry?Grad F: you 're gonna talk about Aurora stuff , per se ?PhD A: OK .Grad F: OK . Um . Well , this pastweek I 've just been , uh , getting down and dirty into writing my {disfmarker} my proposal . So , um{disfmarker} Mmm . I just finished a section on , uh {disfmarker} on talking about these intermediatecategories that I want to classify , um , as a {disfmarker} as a middle step . And , um , I hope to{disfmarker} hope to get this , um {disfmarker} a full rough draft done by , uh , Monday so I can give itto Morgan .PhD A: When is your , uh , meeting ?Grad F: Um , my meetingPhD A: Yeah .Grad F: with , uh{disfmarker} ? Oh , oh , you mean the {disfmarker} the quals .PhD A: The quals . Yeah .Grad F: Uh , thequals are happening in July twenty - fifth .PhD A: Oh . Soon .Grad F: Yeah .PhD A: Uh - huh .Grad F: D -Day .PhD A: Yeah .Grad F: Uh - huh .PhD A: So , is the idea you 're going to do this paper and then youpass it out to everybody ahead of time and {disfmarker} ?Grad F: Right , right . So , y you write up aproposal , and give it to people ahead of time , and you have a short presentation . And , um , and then ,um {disfmarker} then everybody asks you questions .PhD A: Hmm .Grad F: Yeah .PhD A: I remembernow .Grad F: Yep . So , um .PhD A: Have you d ? I was just gonna ask , do you want to say any{disfmarker} a little bit about it ,Grad F: Y sPhD A: or {disfmarker} ? Mmm .Grad F: Oh . Uh , a little bitabout {disfmarker} ?PhD A: Wh - what you 're {disfmarker} what you 're gonna {disfmarker} You said{disfmarker} you were talking about the , uh , particular features that you were looking at ,Grad F: Oh ,the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker}PhD A: or {disfmarker}Grad F: Right . Well , I was , um , I think oneof the perplexing problems is , um , for a while I was thinking that I had to come up with a complete setof intermediate features {disfmarker} in intermediate categories to {disfmarker} to classify right away .But what I 'm thinking now is , I would start with {disfmarker} with a reasonable set . Something{disfmarker} something like , um , um {disfmarker} like , uh , re regular phonetic features , just to{disfmarker} just to start off that way . And do some phone recognition . Um , build a system that , uh ,classifies these , um {disfmarker} these feat uh , these intermediate categories using , uh , multi - bandtechniques . Combine them and do phon phoneme recognition . Look at {disfmarker} then I would lookat the errors produced in the phoneme recognition and say , OK , well , I could probably reduce the errorsif I included this extra feature or this extra intermediate category . That would {disfmarker} that wouldreduce certain confusions over other confusions . And then {disfmarker} and then {vocalsound} reiterate. Um , build the intermediate classifiers . Uh , do phoneme recognition . Look at the errors . And thenpostulate new {disfmarker} or remove , um , intermediate categories . And then do it again .PhD A: Soyou 're gonna use TIMIT ?Grad F: Um , for that {disfmarker} for that part of the {disfmarker} theprocess , yeah , I would use TIMIT .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Grad F: And , um , then {disfmarker} after{disfmarker} after , uh , um , doing TIMIT . Right ?PhD A: Mm - hmm .Grad F: Um , that 's {disfmarker}


Project Manager: So is {disfmarker} Why not save that .Marketing: No , you'll ha have to open it up fromelsewhere .Project Manager: {gap} {disfmarker} Do you want to replace existing file , no . {vocalsound}I actually tried to transfer it to My Documents , but {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah , you have to you haveto close that window . 'Cause that's the save one isn't it , so {disfmarker} And then find it .ProjectManager: {gap} spreadsheet .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah , but I've tauhMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: right , I'll just re-do it . That's the easiest way .{vocalsound} {vocalsound} Right .User Interface: Well we've made our prototype anyway . We can havea good look at that . {vocalsound}Marketing: You pass it round to have a look .User Interface:{vocalsound} Mm-hmm . Y no , it's a slightly curved around the sides . {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound} Mm very nice .User Interface: Um , it's almost curved like up to the main display as well .And the little line at the bottom indicates the bit {disfmarker} the panel that you pull down .Marketing:Mm-hmm .User Interface: And the extra function buttons are below that panel on the little line.Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: And we've got the stick on the button with the company logo on.Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: We also have a apple slash cherry design at the top .UserInterface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} So it is , yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}{gap} {vocalsound}Marketing: Cherry would be alright actually .User Interface: Yeah ,Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: it's a bit more fun , isn't it ? And it's kinda not really at a kind of {disfmarker} you thinkapple , you think computers , like Apple Mac .Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah , we might get a{disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm . Copyright , yeah . What's this this one ?User Interface: Yeah , andcherries are fun , summery .Marketing: What's that one there ?User Interface: Ah , that's the mute.Industrial Designer: For the M_ . {vocalsound}Marketing: Oh , okay . Right .User Interface: {gap}{vocalsound} It {disfmarker} it'd probably have to be labelled mute .Marketing: {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: They're thinking {disfmarker}User Interface: But um , we didn't have anything small enoughto write .Marketing: Uh-huh .Industrial Designer: For the first time , well it was hard to get the h um theactual labelling on the individual buttons .Marketing: Okay . Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}User Interface:Yeah . Uh , we just chose simple shapes for all them .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Um , theimportant ones are the volume ones . So we made them a bit bigger . The mute could possibly be a bitsmaller .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Hum , you separate off in colour the volume relatedbuttons from the channel related buttons , so you've got the volume in orange on design there ,UserInterface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: and the the channel is inblue .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: R right . Um ,User Interface: Yeah , and we chose a V_plus and V_ minus .Project Manager: all these things have cost implications . And so when I done mything on cost {vocalsound} a {disfmarker} I had assumed that the only uh button that would be adifferent colour would be the uh the red apple button . So {disfmarker} However , I've now {gap} .{vocalsound} But um , {vocalsound} yeah so uh but there would be a cost implication on that,Marketing: I'll see if I can find them .Project Manager: and uh {disfmarker} as I suppose that{vocalsound} so whether {vocalsound} wanted to put in all these colours , would be uh open to debate ,I suppose .Industrial Designer: Yeah , sisUser Interface: Well the colours wouldn't {disfmarker} likethat's {disfmarker} they wouldn't be too important ,Marketing: Have {disfmarker}User Interface: but wedidn't have any white Play-Doh . {vocalsound} So that's where the colour buttons came from .{vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} An important consideration .Marketing:{vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Right , okay so um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} And thesecond one underneath would be the idea for the {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yes , we'll have theslide-away .Project Manager: Right , okay . So we've got um detail design meeting .Industrial Designer:Bottom .Project Manager: Right . So {disfmarker} So , we've got {vocalsound} prototype presentation ,which we've just done , evaluation criteria , um and finance , so I guess w we have to evaluate if thatmeets the various uh aspects that we're looking for uh from um our previous meeting .Marketing:Mm-hmm .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So other than the fact that it doesn't have the


Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Mm yeah .Project Manager: Okay . {vocalsound} I gyeah . Time is it ?Marketing: {vocalsound} Fourteen twenty six .Project Manager: Okay . Lovely to seeyou all again . Um {vocalsound} it's our conceptual design meeting and it's starting at approximatelyfourteen twenty five and so we have forty minutes for this one again and so we'll go just after threeo'clock . Um okay {vocalsound} our agenda , we're gonna do an opening , I'm gonna review the minutesof the last meeting , then we'll have your three presentations um and then we'll have to make a decisionon the remote control concepts , and finally we'll close . SoIndustrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager:opening . Um these are our minutes from r the functional design . We decided our target group is thefocus on who can afford it , because we have international appeal and we said it's for all age groups ,different um functions of it . Our main objectives were simplicity and fashion . {vocalsound} And s um inspecific functions are something to keep the remote from getting lost , large buttons for the essentialfunctions , a possibility for extra functions , like a sliding a sliding piece {vocalsound} and a long-lifebattery or a charging station . Okay , now three presentations . I'd like to do it in this order , first do theconceptual specification of components , properties and materials {vocalsound} um and then theconceptual specification of user interface {vocalsound} and finally trend watching .Industrial Designer:That would be me .User Interface: Yep .Industrial Designer: Alright . Well .Project Manager: Mm . 'kay .Function F_ eight it . There we go .Industrial Designer: Alright . Um I'm very excited by this one actuallyguys I uh had a lot of fun doing it . Components design . This is where you look at what does it take tomake a remote control and what should we make our specific remote control out of . {vocalsound} Um .So , we need to examine each element separately , but we're designing a full thing , so you wanna keep itintegrated as a whole . The main elements of remote controls in general , and therefore ours as well , arethe case , the buttons , the circuit board with the chip and the battery . These are all things that we hadsort of addressed before , but I'm gonna take each one a little bit separately here as we figure out whatthey should be made of and what they should look like . The case , uh the options that I've gotten fromheadquarters about what we can do , um there's there's the shape of a case , we could do a flat sh a flatcase , a curved case or maybe even a double double-curved case . I haven't seen any pictures of whatthis exactly looks like yet , just keep that in mind , but these are the options that we have frommanufacturing and we can make our case out of plastic , the m the main base will be plastic , but wehave all these sort of fashion and technological elements we can add in , wood , latex , titanium , rubberor other coloured types of plastic . That would be our case . Um buttons , for buttons we have umpushbuttons , which is what Real Reaction uses the most often , but we also have scror scroll wheels,Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: which can have integrated pushbuttons , or we could go allhigh-tech and have an L_ L_C_D_ screen . {vocalsound} Um circuit board and chip we can have a simpleone , a regular one or an advanced one , depending on what our other needs are . And then battery Ithink is where things get most exciting . We're talking about long-life batteries here . {vocalsound} Umwe can we can have your sort of basic double A_ batteries , but we also have these options of um{vocalsound} using a kinetic battery , like are used in high-tech watches , where you just have to move ita little bit to get it to power up . Um so simple movements like pushing buttons would recharge thebattery . Or a solar battery , although there are slight um {vocalsound} complications with solar batteriesas in we can't use a latex case if we have a solar battery .Project Manager: Hmm .Industrial Designer: Orum something they only described as the type of battery you find in torches from about fifty years ago ,flashlights . Not quite sure what that is , but that's the description that I received , so that's what I'mpassing on to you . {vocalsound} So those are our options . Um personal preferences that I was thinkingthrough {disfmarker} here's what we've been talking about all through , fashion and simplicity . So ifwe're going for fashion in our cases , I think that what we're gonna wanna look at is a curved or adouble-curved case , probably with a variety of design elements . Maybe titanium , maybe some wood .We're gonna have to investigate that better when I get specifics of the actual materials , but that's sort ofwhat I have in mind . And we wanna go for simplicity . Probably pushbuttons , but I'm sort of intrigued by