Project Manager: All hooked up . {vocalsound} Okay , so now we are here at the functional designmeeting . Um {vocalsound} hopefully this meeting I'll be doing a little bit less talking than I did last time'cause this is when you get to show us what you've been doing individually . The agenda for the meeting ,I put it in the sh shared documents folder . I don't know if that meant that you could see it or not .UserInterface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Did anyone ?Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: No.Project Manager: No . Oh well . Um I'll try and do that for the next meeting as well so if you check inthere , there's a shared project documents folder . Um and it should be in there .User Interface: Mm . Umum wi on on a what ? Oh project project documents , yeah , yeah , yeah , okay .Project Manager: Projectdocuments , yeah . So I'll put it in there .User Interface: Oh okay , yeah .Project Manager: Is it best if Isend you an email maybe , to let you know it's there ?User Interface: Yes , I think so .Project Manager:Yep . I'll do that next time . Um {vocalsound} I'll act as secretary for this meeting and just take minutesas we go through , and then I'll send them to you after the meeting . The main the main focus of thismeeting is your presentations that you've been preparing during the time , so we'll go through each ofyou one by one . Um then we need to briefly discuss the new project requirements that were sent to us .I just sentUser Interface: Yeah , the last minute , yeah ,Project Manager: at the last minute , I'm sorryabout that ,User Interface: yeah .Project Manager: but we can see how that affects what you were youwere doing .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Um and then we need to , by the end of the meetingcome to some kind of decision on who our target group's going to be and what the functions of theremote control {disfmarker} that's the the main goal is to come up with those two things , target groupand functions of the remote control . And we've got forty minutes to do that in . So I would say{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: You said uh targ target groups ,Project Manager: yeah ?IndustrialDesigner: what does that mean ?Project Manager: As uh who it is that we're going to be trying to sell thisthing to ,User Interface: {vocalsound} Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Uh okay , 'kay .ProjectManager: yeah .Industrial Designer: So are {disfmarker}Project Manager: So we need to {disfmarker}yeah , we need to have a fairly defined group that that we want to focus onIndustrial Designer: Okay.Project Manager: and then look at the functions um of the dem remote control itself . So with that I thinkit's best if I hand over to you . Does anyone have a preference for going first ?Industrial Designer: Alright. {vocalsound} I can go first ,Project Manager: You wanna go first ?Industrial Designer: yeah .UserInterface: Okay . Hmm .Project Manager: Okay , so we need to unplug my laptop and plug in yours.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I assume we just pull it out ?User Interface: Mm.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Right . Um {vocalsound} so f from the{disfmarker}Project Manager: Just before you start , to make it easier , would you three mind emailingme your presentations ? Once we {disfmarker} you don't have to do it now but when {disfmarker} onceyou go back ,User Interface: Okay , yeah , afterwards , yeah , okay .Industrial Designer: Right sure.Project Manager: just so that I don't have to scribble everything down .Industrial Designer: Uh okay .{vocalsound} {vocalsound} So n uh with uh with regard to the {vocalsound} uh working design of thisuh uh remote control uh I've identified um {vocalsound} a few basic uh components of the remote anduh {vocalsound} se uh from the design , functional design perspective um w I c we can now uh knowwha what exactly the components are and how how they work together with each other . {vocalsound}{vocalsound} So {vocalsound} {vocalsound} this is the method that uh I'll mostly be following in my um{vocalsound} in my uh role . Um the identification of the components , uh and uh since since I'm dealingonly with the technical aspects , I would need feedback from the marketing person uh and {vocalsound}uh from the user interface person . Uh we'll then integrate this into the product design at a technicallevelProject Manager: Hmm .Industrial Designer: and uh basically update and come up with a new design, so it's a cyclical process . {vocalsound} Okay , so {vocalsound} these were the basic findings fromtoday . The last three bullets have been integrated from uh the last minute uh email . Uh I just quicklyjotted them down . Um {vocalsound} so basically uh the {disfmarker} as I told you the identification ofhow the remote control works and what are the various parts to it uh and what are the different


Project Manager: Hello .Marketing: Hey guys .User Interface: Hi .Industrial Designer: Hi .ProjectManager: Hi .Industrial Designer: I see my bunny is still standing .Project Manager: Yeah .IndustrialDesigner: No one drawing it .Project Manager: It's too beautiful .User Interface: Yeah , true .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound} Uh I figured uh that much . {vocalsound}Project Manager:{vocalsound}Marketing: Too wicked .User Interface: Mm .Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}{vocalsound}Project Manager: A minute please , my uh laptop is uh {disfmarker} oh , there it is , thankyou . So welcome back . {vocalsound} At the functional design meeting um the plan is uh that uh eachone of you , so not me but only you uh will uh present uh the the things you worked on uh the last uhhalf hour . I will uh take minutes and will put uh the minutes that I have uh at the end of the session inthe shared folder . {vocalsound} Also the minutes of the previous session are also in the shared foldernow , so you can read that uh now or afterwards . Um {vocalsound} uh I had an email from the from themanagement boardMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: uh , I don't know if you a al also uhreceived it , but there were four points uh which uh I think are very important . First one is uh they thinkthat uh teletext teletext becomes outdated uh and internet will be the the main uh focus . {vocalsound}Uh second one is also important uh , because it's one of the discussion points of the previous session . Uhthe remote control shou should onl only be used for the television , so it uh not gonna it's not gonna be amulti-purpose remote control , so uh that's one thing to keep in mind .User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh second , and I think that's important for theMarketing uh Expert , uh the current uh customers uh are in the age group group of uh forty years andolder , but with this uh new remote uh they uh will uh {disfmarker} would like to reach uh a group uhyounger than uh forty . Uh and uh I think to keep in mind , but not really uh for now is that they uh wantthe the the slogan and the and the logo uh to uh to be recognised more in the remote .Marketing:{vocalsound}Project Manager: So , we have uh forty minutes , so I think uh not more than ten minutesuh uh per presentation uh each , and please uh use uh all the the the facilities so that you have eitherSMARTboards , the the Word files , what you uh {disfmarker} whatever you want . So uh Tim , can youstart ? Yeah ?Marketing: Okay . {vocalsound} 'Kay , welcome . I have some uh new findings on uhMarketing Expert level ,User Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: which I will show you . {vocalsound} Themethod I used was um giving orders to our usability lab uh to do a questionnaire . Um {vocalsound} onehundred respondents were involved and my marketing uh department generated a report with a lot ofresults . Um , these were a couple of findings , first page of three . Um , we have three audiences of{disfmarker} two audiences , {vocalsound} I'm sorry . Uh the first one , this scale , from sixteen to fortyfive {gap} age . Uh the second one is from sixty four {disfmarker} uh forty six to sixty five . Um , as youcan see here , the market share for the first audience is about sixty percent {disfmarker} um sixty five .Uh second audience audience is uh thirty five percent . Mm {vocalsound} and some interests from thefrom the age groups , uh it seems like the young users of remote controls really like the fancy uh newtechnology stuff , like uh an L_C_D_ screen on the remote control , um speech recognition . I don't thinkthat's uh really appropriate . Um , {vocalsound} and when you see uh the audience , the age is going upuh {disfmarker} Yeah , they don't really want it anymore , at least the new technologies . Secondfindings {vocalsound} out of the questionnaire um are the opinion {vocalsound} the opinions uh of theaudience about current remote controls . First point is , seventy five percent of the users find the mostrepo remote controls very ugly , uh and eighty percent of the users would spend more money when aremote control would look fancy . So that's maybe something for the User Interface uh Designer . Okay ,third findings . According to the frequency of use versus importance investigation , um {vocalsound}following buttons are most important . Um , I will tell something about the way this uh this test was ,yeah , done . Um , {vocalsound} persons were asked uh what the buttons were uh they use most , howmuch an hour ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: and uh in the second table the importance ofthose buttons . Um , when you multiply them , you get the {disfmarker} these three points . Switchingchannels , um yeah , that's pretty uh pretty normal , that's what you do with a remote control . Um the


Lynne Neagle AM: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and EducationCommittee this morning. I have received apologies for absence from Jack Sargeant, and I'm very pleasedto welcome Vikki Howells, who is substituting for Jack this morning. Can I ask whether there are anydeclarations of interest from Members, please? No. Okay. Thank you. Item 2 this morning is our lastevidence session on the Children (Abolition of Defence of Reasonable Punishment) (Wales) Bill, and I'mreally pleased to welcome back Julie Morgan AM, Deputy Minister for Health and Social Services; KarenCornish, who is deputy director of the children and families division; and Emma Gammon, who is thelawyer working on the Bill. So, thank you all for coming. If you're happy, we'll go straight into questionsbecause we've got lots of ground that we want to cover, and the first questions are from JanetFinch-Saunders.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Good morning. Thank you, Chair. Good morning, DeputyMinister. Of those individuals who responded to our written consultation in a personal capacity, nearly 70per cent do not support this Bill. We also heard a clear message from the parents we met last week whooppose this Bill that, as parents, they understand clearly the difference between child abuse and a lightsmack from a loving parent. How would you like to respond to that?Julie Morgan AM: Thank you verymuch, Janet, for that question. I think I'd like to start by saying that child abuse is not the issue that theBill is trying to address. What the Bill is trying to do is prohibit all forms of physical punishment, and thatis in order to protect children's rights and to ensure that children have the same protection from physicalpunishment as adults. But I do understand that people have different views, and that's why this processhas been so important—for us to hear what your views are and what parents' views are. I know that,often, people use different euphemisms really to make light of physical punishment. I've heardexpressions used such as a 'light smack' or a 'loving smack' or a 'tap', and really there can be differentinterpretations of what is a 'light smack', what is a 'loving smack', and that doesn't really cover the issueof the frequency of such actions being taken. But I would say that, however mild it seems to be, theUnited Nations Committee on the Rights of the Child recognises that any physical punishment of children,however minor, is incompatible with their human rights, and why should a big person hit a little person?That's been the sort of mantra, really, that has taken me through supporting this legislation—that it justseems wrong to me that there is something in the law that could mean that there could be an excuse forthat happening. I believe we shouldn't have anything in the law that defends the physical punishment ofchildren, and I don't think we should be defining acceptable ways of hitting or punishing children, becauseI think it does send a confused message to children. It says, 'It's okay for me to hit you, but don't you hitanybody else.' I think it causes confusion. So, I'm confident that updating the law will make it muchclearer for parents and people working with children—and, of course, I'm sure, as you'll have heard fromthe evidence you've taken, that people who work with children are overwhelmingly in support of thislegislation, and the representative surveys that we've carried out show support for the Bill'sprinciples.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you, Deputy Minister. Last week, during the workshop, a fewparents—predominantly all of them, actually—said that they use a gentle tap or smacking as part of atoolkit of ways to deal with challenging behaviour or, sometimes, for the safety of the child or, indeed, tocarry out the parenting of a child. How do you intend to work with parents going forward, given the finiteresources that social care and social services have? I know from the responses we've received to theconsultation that parents themselves who have to parent 24 hours a day, seven days a week, they arereally, on the scale of things, very upset about this. How do you intend to try and get your messageacross to those parents on removing what they consider to be part of their toolkit when raising children?How do you intend to deal with that aspect?Julie Morgan AM: Well, first of all, I want to say, as I've saidin most evidence sessions, that I completely accept that bringing up children is hard. It's very difficult;many of us have done it and we know how tough it can be. But we don't think that there is any place forphysical punishment in bringing up children. There's a whole range of other ways that you can helpparents bring up children, and advice you can give them of different methods to use. But, the clearmessage of this Bill is that we don't want any physical punishment; we don't think it's the right thing to


Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound} Hmm .Project Manager: Okay . Good morning everybody . Um I'm glad you could all come. I'm really excited to start this team . Um I'm just gonna have a little PowerPoint presentation for us , forour kick-off meeting . My name is Rose Lindgren . I I'll be the Project Manager . Um our agenda today iswe are gonna do a little opening and then I'm gonna talk a little bit about the project , then we'll moveinto acquaintance such as getting to know each other a little bit , including a tool training exercise . Andthen we'll move into the project plan , do a little discussion and close , since we only have twenty fiveminutes . First of all our project aim . Um we are creating a new remote control which we have threegoals about , it needs to be original , trendy and user-friendly . I'm hoping that we can all work togetherto achieve all three of those . Um so we're gonna divide us up into three {vocalsound} compa three parts. First the functional design which will be uh first we'll do individual work , come into a meeting , theconceptional design , individual work and a meeting , and then the detailed design , individual work and ameeting . So that we'll each be doing our own ideas and then coming together and um collaborating .Okay , we're gonna get to know each other a little bit . So um , what we're gonna do is start off with umlet's start off with Amina . Um Alima ,Industrial Designer: Alima .Project Manager: sorry , Alima.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um we're gonna do a little tooltraining , so we are gonna work with that whiteboard behind you . Um introduce yourself , um say onething about yourself and then draw your favourite animal and tell us about it .Industrial Designer: Okay .Um I don't know which one of these I have to bring with me .Project Manager: Probably both .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound} Right , so , I'm supposed to draw my favourite animal . I have no drawing skillswhatsoever . But uh let's see , introduce myself . My name is Alima Bucciantini . Um I'm from the state ofMaine in the US . I'm doing nationalism studies , blah , blah , blah , and I have no artistic talents .ProjectManager: How do you spell your name ?Industrial Designer: A_ L_ I_ M_ A_ .Project Manager: Thanks.Industrial Designer: Oh , and I guess I'm the Industrial Designer on this project . So let's see if I cangetMarketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: um here . I will draw a little turtle for youall . Not necessarily 'cause it's my absolute favourite animal , but just that I think they're drawable . Andyou have the pretty little shell going on . Some little eyes . Happy . There you go . That's a turtle.Marketing: Yes .Project Manager: So what are your favourite characteristics ?Industrial Designer: Um . II like the whole having a shell thing .Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: It's quite cool carry yourhome around where you go , um quite decorative little animals , they can swim , they can , they're veryadaptable , they carry everything they need with them , um and they're easy to draw .Project Manager:{vocalsound} Excellent .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Shall we just goaround the table ?User Interface: Uh Okay . Well , my name is Iain uhProject Manager: Mm .UserInterface: and I'm the User Interface Designer for the project . Um . And I'll try and draw my favouriteanimal .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} No ,User Interface: I'll {disfmarker} I should leave that one onthereIndustrial Designer: you can erase the turtle ,User Interface: shouldn't I {vocalsound} before Icallously rub it off .Industrial Designer: it's alright .Project Manager: Might be nice to have them all upthere at same time .User Interface: {vocalsound} Um I'm not gonna draw it quite to scale um .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Is that at least identifiable ?Industrial Designer:Snake .Marketing: Well .Project Manager: EmIndustrial Designer: Well ,User Interface: It's a whale{vocalsound} , yes .Industrial Designer: snake ? {vocalsound} It's w {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound} Thanks .Marketing: Oh my god , it's better than what I'm gonna be able to do .UserInterface: {vocalsound} Um and , yeah , the reason I like whales is 'cause uh they're {disfmarker} well ,first of all they're quite intelligent um and also they're they're kind of mysterious , like we don't reallyknow much about them or or understand how they work , how they form groups . And I just find theminteresting animals .Marketing: Take my contraptions with me . Alright , I'm Jessy . I'm from aroundD_C_ ish sort of in the U_S_ . And we're gonna keep the deep sea sort of theme going on , {gap} animal. Don't really know how to draw this . Just where can I {disfmarker} Mm . Mm . Maybe if I do the water


Project Manager: {vocalsound} Alright , yeah . {gap} crack on {gap} . Okay so we'll start off with aquick overview of the minutes . I think to sum up the last meeting , would be to say um the requirementsthat we've um set out . Those are we were going to go for what seemed to be a fairly minimal designbased on uh a small joystick , {vocalsound} L_C_D_ and a couple of other buttons for navigation um withpower being I suppose one of the main single purpose buttons . Um we were also going to use {gap}novelty of being able to locate the remote control again via a small transmitter with any luck , the idea totry and separate us and also because of the minimal design um looks like we'll be able to be fairlyadventurous in the actual physical shape of our remote control with any luck . Um that pretty much sumsup the last one . So we'll just crack on , um like to maybe start with the Industrial Designer if it's possible.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh uh okay .Project Manager: Um uh the con today is the conceptoday .Industrial Designer: I'll just {disfmarker}Project Manager: This uh meeting is the conceptualdesign phase and is um {disfmarker} Sorry about this . {gap} . And is to cover things like um what theparts might be made of , um , can we uh outsource these from elsewhere , um will we have to constructany items ourselves ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh I have a presentation {gap} I just saved it inthe uh the folder .Project Manager: Yeah , okay well I'll just uh I'll load it up then . Um {vocalsound} .Which one do yIndustrial Designer: Uh .Project Manager: Oh , interface concept ?User Interface: Yeah ,that's me .Project Manager: That's you . We've got trend watching , that's you .Industrial Designer: It'suh {disfmarker} Components design .Project Manager: Components design .Industrial Designer: {gap}.Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: Alright . {vocalsound} So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Uh .The case uh le that's what I wrote first of all , could be plastic our plastic . Uh but later on {gap} wefound out that um it can be rubber as well , or titanium or even wood . So uh we decide what it's gonnabe . Probably plastic . Uh we need the infra-red transmitter . Get that off the shelf . Uh joystick we'llprobably if we're gonna use it , um could be plastic w or rubber even as well . Um {vocalsound} if you goon to the next slide . Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} If you go on to f uh findings , it's like two or threeslides down .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: Right . So , this is what I found we can use . Uhthree different types of batteries . Um can either use a hand dynamo , or the kinetic type ones , youknow that they use in watches , or else uh a solar powered one .Project Manager: Okay . Now ,IndustrialDesigner: Um .Project Manager: the kinetic one , we've {disfmarker} 'cause that's the ones where likeyou {disfmarker} the movement causes it .Marketing: Cost is {disfmarker} Yeah .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: Um the bat uh the battery for a a watch wouldn't require a lot ofpower , would be my one query .User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: Is a kinetic one going to be ableto supply enough power ?User Interface: There's also a watch moves around a great deal more .ProjectManager: Do you think ?Industrial Designer: Uh .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager:WIndustrial Designer: Yeah , I don't think it would . Um . And solar cells , I dunno about that .Marketing:{gap} yeah .Industrial Designer: Uh . We should probably just use conventional batteries . Um , just likein usual remote controls .Project Manager: Which I suppose as well would allow us to go off the shelfagain , you'd say ?Industrial Designer: Um . Yeah . Um . {vocalsound} And these are three differenttypes of {disfmarker} or two different types {disfmarker} three different types of shapes you can have .Uh one is a flat one , and then more original ones are single curved one or one with a double curved . Um{vocalsound} the materials are tha there as you can see , but uh you can't have a titanium one for adouble curved ,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Titanium , the really strong metal , titanium?Industrial Designer: uh which would be {disfmarker} Yeah ,Marketing: Is it not also it's expensive?Industrial Designer: and light . Uh , i think so as well , yeah .Project Manager: Um . Um .IndustrialDesigner: They make mountain bikes out of that , don't they . So it's really light as well .Project Manager:Curious . Um , I don't know if you'd be able to off the top of your head or not , the single curved anddouble curved , would you be able to give an example ?Industrial Designer: Um . {vocalsound} T yeah.Project Manager: Um could you maybe draw something ? I you don't doesn't have to be perfect , it's just'cause I'm not quite sure if I understand the difference between the two .Industrial Designer: Uh . Well


PhD E: OK .Professor B: OK , so {pause} We {disfmarker} we had a meeting with , uh {disfmarker} withHynek , um , in {disfmarker} in which , uh , uh , Sunil and Stephane , uh {vocalsound} summarizedwhere they were and {disfmarker} and , uh , talked about where we were gonna go . So that{disfmarker} that happened sort of mid - week . Uh .PhD E: D did {disfmarker} did you guys get yourcode pushed together ?PhD D: Oh , yeah . Yeah . It 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} itwas updated yesterday ,PhD E: Cool .PhD D: right ?PhD A: Yeah .PhD D: Yeah .PhD A: You probablyreceived the mail .PhD E: Oh , right , I saw {disfmarker} I saw the note .PhD A: Yeah .PhD E: Mm - hmm.Professor B: What was the update ?PhD A: What was the update ? So there is th then {disfmarker} the{disfmarker} all the new features that go in .Professor B: Yeah .PhD A: The , um , noise suppression , there - synthesis of speech after suppression . These are the {disfmarker}PhD E: Is the , um {disfmarker}the CVS mechanism working {pause} well ?PhD A: Yeah .PhD E: Are {disfmarker} are people , uh , up atOGI grabbing code uh , via that ?PhD D: Uh , I don't think {disfmarker} I don't think {disfmarker}PhD E:Or {disfmarker} ?PhD A: I don't know if they use it , but .PhD D: Yeah , I I don't think anybody up thereis like {pause} working on it right now .PhD E: Uh - huh . Mmm .Professor B: I think it more likely thatwhat it means is that when Sunil is up there {vocalsound} he will grab it .PhD D: Yeah . Yeah . So rightnow nobody 's working on Aurora there .PhD E: Yeah .Professor B: They 're {disfmarker} Yeah . They 'reworking on a different task .PhD E: I see . I see .PhD D: Yeah .PhD E: OK .Professor B: But what 'llhappen is {disfmarker} is he 'll go back up there and , uh , Pratibha will come back from {disfmarker}from , uh , the east coast . Uh .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor B: And , uh {disfmarker} and {disfmarker}and I guess actually , uh , after Eurospeech for a little bit , uh , he 'll go up there too . So , actuallyeverybody {vocalsound} who 's working on it {comment} will be up there for at least a little while . Sothey 'll remotely access it {vocalsound} from there .PhD E: So has {disfmarker} Has anybody triedremotely accessing the CVS using , uh , uh , SSH ?Professor B: Yeah . PhD A: Um , I don't know if Haridid that or {disfmarker} You dPhD D: I {comment} can actually do it today . I mean , I can just log into{disfmarker}PhD E: Have you tried it yet ?PhD D: No , I didn't . So I I 'll try it today .PhD E: OK.Professor B: Good idea .PhD A: Actually I {disfmarker} I tried wh while {disfmarker} when I installedthe {pause} repository , I tried from Belgium .Professor B: Yeah .PhD D: Yeah .PhD A: I logged in thereand I tried {pause} to import {disfmarker}PhD E: Yeah ? It worked good ?PhD A: Yeah , it works .PhD E:Oh , good !PhD A: But it 's {disfmarker} So , right now it 's the mechanism with SSH .PhD D: Oh .PhD E:Great !PhD A: I don't {pause} s I didn't set up {disfmarker} You can also set up a CVS server {pause}on a new port . It 's like well {pause} uh , a main server , or d You can do a CVS server .PhD E: Yeah .Right . Then that 's using the CVS password mechanism and all that ,PhD A: But . Yeah , right .PhD E:right ?PhD A: But I didn't do that because I was not sure about {pause} security problems . I{disfmarker} I would have to {disfmarker}PhD E: So w when you came in from Belgian {disfmarker}{comment} Belgium , using SSH , uh , was it asking you for your own {pause} password into ICSI ? So ifyo you can only do that if you have an account at ICSI ?PhD A: Right . Yeah .PhD E: OK .PhD A: Yeah.PhD E: Cuz there is an {disfmarker} a way to set up anonymous CVS right ?PhD A: Yeah , you ha in thisway you ca you have to set up a CVS server but then , yeah , you can access it .PhD E: So that{disfmarker} Oh , OK .PhD A: you {disfmarker} you can set up priorities .PhD E: So the anonymousmechanism {disfmarker}PhD A: You can access them and mostly if you {disfmarker} if y the set theserver is set up like this .PhD E: OK . Because a lot of the open source stuff works with anonymous CVSand I 'm just wondering {disfmarker} Uh , I mean , for our transcripts we may want to do that .PhD A:Mm - hmm .Professor B: Yeah .PhD E: Uh .Professor B: Yeah , for this stuff I don't think we 're {pause}quite up to that . I mean , we 're still so much in development .PhD E: Mm - hmm . Yeah ,Professor B:We want to have just the insiders .PhD E: yeah , yeah . Oh , I wasn't suggesting for this . I 'm {pause}thinking of the Meeting Recorder {comment} stuffProfessor B: Yeah .PhD E: but . Yeah . OK . Cool.Professor B: Yeah . So , uh {disfmarker}PhD E: What 's new ?Professor B: Well , I mean , I think maybethe thing to me might be {disfmarker} I me I 'm sure you 've just been working on {disfmarker} on , uh


PhD B: We 're , I mean {pause} we {disfmarker} We didn't have a house before .Professor D: Yeah .Yeah .PhD E: OK .Professor D: We 're on again ? OK .PhD A: Mm - hmm . That is really great .Grad H:Yeah , so if {pause} uh {disfmarker} {pause} So if anyone hasn't signed the consent form , please do so.PhD A: That 's terrific .PhD B: Oh , yeah !Professor D: OKGrad H: The new consent form . The new andimproved consent form .PhD A: Now you won't be able to walk or ride your bike , huh ?Professor D: OK.Postdoc F: Uh .PhD B: Right .Professor D: OK .Grad H: And uh , shall I go ahead and do some digits?Professor D: Uh , we were gonna do that at the end , remember ?Grad H: OK , whatever you want.Professor D: Yeah . Just {disfmarker} just to be consistent , from here on in at least , that {disfmarker}{pause} that we 'll do it at the end .PhD B: The new consent form .Grad H: It 's uh {disfmarker} {pause}Yeah , it doesn't matter . OK .Professor D: OK Um Well , it ju I mean it might be that someone here hasto go ,Postdoc F: Testing , one , two , three .Professor D: and {disfmarker} Right ? That was{disfmarker} that was sort of the point . So , uh {pause} I had asked actually anybody who had anyideas for an agenda {pause} to send it to me and no one did . So ,Grad H: So we all forgot .Professor D:Uh ,Postdoc F: From last time I wanted to {disfmarker} Uh {pause} {pause} The {disfmarker} An iss uh{pause} one topic from last time .Professor D: Right , s OK , so one item for an agenda is uh {pause}Jane has some uh {vocalsound} uh some research to talk about , research issues . Um {pause} and{pause} Uh , Adam has some short research issues .Grad H: And I have some {pause} short researchissues .Professor D: Um , I have a {pause} list of things that I think were done over the last threemonths I was supposed to {vocalsound} {vocalsound} send off , uh {pause} and , um {pause} I{disfmarker} I sent a note about it to uh {disfmarker} to Adam and Jane but I think I 'll just run throughit {pause} also and see if someone thinks it 's inaccurate or {pause} uh insufficient .PhD A: A list thatyou have to send off to who ?Professor D: Uh , to uh uh , IBM .PhD A: Oh .Professor D: OK . They 're ,you know {disfmarker}PhD E: Professor D: So . Um , So , uh {pause} so , I 'll go through that . Um ,{pause} And , Anything else ? {pause} anyone wants to talk about ?PhD A: What about the , um{disfmarker} your trip , yesterday ?Professor D: No . OK . Um . Sort of off - topic I guess .PhD A: Oh ,OK .Professor D: Cuz that 's {pause} Cuz that was all {disfmarker} all about the , uh {disfmarker} I{disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I can chat with you about that {pause} off - line . That 's another thing . Um, And , Anything else ? Nothing else ? Uh , there 's a {disfmarker} I mean , there is a {disfmarker}{pause} a , um {pause} uh {pause} telephone call tomorrow , {pause} which will be a conference call{pause} that some of us are involved in {pause} for uh a possible proposal . Um , we 'll talk{disfmarker} we 'll talk about it next week if {disfmarker} if something {disfmarker}Grad H: Do youwant me to {pause} be there for that ? I noticed you C C ' ed me , but I wasn't actually a recipient . Ididn't quite know what to make of that .Professor D: Uh Well , we 'll talk {disfmarker} talk about thatafter our meeting . OK .Grad H: OK .Professor D: Uh , OK . So it sounds like the {disfmarker} the threemain things that we have to talk about are , uh this list , uh Jane and {disfmarker} Jane and Adam havesome research items , and , other than that , anything , {pause} as usual , {pause} anything goesbeyond that . OK , uh , Jane , since {disfmarker} since you were sort of cut off last time why don't westart with yours , make sure we get to it .Postdoc F: OK , it 's {disfmarker} it 's very {pause} eh{disfmarker} it 's {pause} very brief , I mean {disfmarker} just let me {disfmarker} just hand these out. Oops .Grad H: Is this the same as the email or different ?PhD C: Thanks .Postdoc F: It 's slightlydifferent . I {disfmarker} {pause} basically the same .Grad H: OK .PhD A: Same idea ?Postdoc F: But ,same idea . So , if you 've looked at this you 've seen it before , so {pause} Basically , {vocalsound} um{pause} as you know , uh {pause} part of the encoding {pause} includes a mark that indicates {pause}an overlap . It 's not indicated {pause} with , um {pause} uh , tight precision , it 's just indicated that{disfmarker} OK , so , It 's indicated to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} so the people know {pause} whatparts of sp which {disfmarker} which stretches of speech were in the clear , versus being overlapped byothers . So , I {pause} used this mark and , um {pause} and , uh {pause} uh , {pause} divided the{disfmarker} I wrote a script {pause} which divides things into individual minutes , {pause} of which we


Project Manager: Alright ? Alright . Thank you for coming to this third meeting of the uh uh design group .Um I think we uh made some definite progress at the last one um and come up with some interesting uhuh w suggestions for our our new remote control . Um I'll again very quickly uh just present some notesof that meeting . Um {vocalsound} the the the problem with existing remote controls , we felt , was thatthey're ugly um and that people are prepared to pay a premium for something better . Um they've gotlots of buttons on them that uh people don't use and find difficult to learn . Um and people lose them .And {vocalsound} We we thought that f for our our new uh uh remote control that everybody will want torush out and buy , um {vocalsound} that we're {disfmarker} {vocalsound} we should look at speechrecognition rather than r rather than buttons , and that if we have any buttons they should be very few ofthem and only for those functions that are actually identified that that people use . That {disfmarker} um{vocalsound} we want to go for uh a long lasting battery that we gua we guarantee for the life of the uhuh the product and a shape that will be instantly recognisable , A_ um as uh a trendy remote control ,and and B_ as uh a Real Reaction product . So that w uh when people are uh happy with that , they willthey will want to buy uh everything else from us . Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Okay . So again um ,I'll {disfmarker} we'll have the three three presentations from the the the three of you and then uh we'llwe'll make a a final a final uh decision . Um and the the decisions that we need to to make today , finally ,are um what energy source we want to use , whether i it is practical to use uh um a a a long lasting one .And uh I I think our discussion was around the fact that uh if we're gonna go for uh a long lasting powersupply , then basically it's uh sealed for life and uh if anybody does manage to run one down , we'll we'llgive them another one . And uh it it'll be uh , you know , prominently displayed as part of the th theadvertising literature that it's um um , you know , for life , guaranteed for life . Um {vocalsound} now thethe the internal chip um {disfmarker} and uh this is where I need uh uh Kate's expert adviceIndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}Project Manager: and given that {vocalsound} th this has to to go to market asquickly as possible um d d do we go for a custom designed chip ? Or or do we buy one off the shelf andand programme it ourselves ? Uh I mean I'm I'm I'm n not an expert on these things , but presumably ,there must be loads of 'em already on the market that we can modify .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Project Manager: But uh that that's uh that's your area of expertise . And then the uh , youknow , the the overall design of the case uh is is is Kendra's field and uhUser Interface:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} we we had somediscussions last time as as to uh how we might go forward and we'll we'll finalise those uh da today . Umand thi this is all linked in with the the the user interface , whether we p um {vocalsound} go for voice ,buttons , or or a bit of both . Uh and then uh , you know , f for the next meeting Kate will be looking atthe the the s the look , feel and design , Kendra the uh ho how the the user actually uses it and andAndrew of course the the product evaluation . And uh Kate and Kendra will be producing a a model for usto uh to look at .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh so ,if if we can have the the three presentations again please , and uh um p perhaps you'd like to start uh k.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay . Um {disfmarker}Project Manager: Kate . Oh I'm sorry , ohsorry .Industrial Designer: Um p there we go .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound} 'Kay , I'll just be talking about the components design . And {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Okay , basically I just uh looked at what exactly do remotes do . Uh basically they wait for you to press akey or give a voice command and then this is translated uh into uh light signals which are then seen bythe T_V_ . Uh the materials we're gonna need to look at {disfmarker} uh the two big ones are theintegrated circuit chip and the battery and the in integrated circuit chip uh works in conjunction with a adiode transistor or resonator , uh two more resistors and a capacitor and the battery works in conjunctionwith a resistor and a capacitor . Um . {vocalsound} Uh basically what happens is you'll press a number orgive a voice command and this creates a a connection within the the remote that allows the chip{disfmarker} the chip then senses this connection and produces a signal in a Morse code format . Thissignal's sent to the transistor which amplifies it and then sends it on to the light emitting diode and uh


Lynne Neagle AM: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and EducationCommittee this morning. I've received apologies for absence from Siân Gwenllian, and I'm very pleasedto welcome Helen Mary Jones, who is substituting for Siân today. Can I ask whether Members want todeclare any interests, please? Can I just, then, place on record that I have got a son who was about to doA-levels, so is affected by the exam decision? We'll move on, then, to our substantive item today, whichis an evidence session with the Welsh Government around the impact of the coronavirus pandemic oneducation in Wales. I'm very pleased to welcome Kirsty Williams, Minister for Education; Steve Davies,who is director of the education directorate; Huw Morris, who is the group director, skills, highereducation and lifelong learning; and Rob Orford, who is the chief scientific adviser for health. Thank youall for coming. We know that this is a really difficult and pressurised time for everyone, and we appreciateyour attendance. Minister, I understand you wanted to make an opening statement today.Kirsty WilliamsAM: Yes, if that's okay, Chair. As you know, it's not usually my practice to do that, but I think it isimportant today. COVID-19 coronavirus is one of the most significant issues that the Welsh Governmentand the people of Wales have dealt with in recent times. Dealing with the impacts of this pandemic isextremely challenging. Things are changing on an hourly basis, and we have to make decisions quickly toensure public safety. But I would like to assure you that our aim, and my aim, and my main concern asthe education Minister is to protect all staff and pupils in our schools and other educational settings. Butwe also have a duty to ensure continuing and continuity of education. Public health is clearly the priorityhere, but that does not change our belief that no child should miss out on any education, unlessabsolutely necessary. So, the decision to close all schools from tomorrow for statutory educationprovision was not taken lightly, but I believe it was necessary, given the advice and recommendationsthat we had received from a public health perspective and the situation that was developing on theground. From next week, schools will have a new purpose. They will help support those most in need,including people involved in the immediate response to the coronavirus outbreak, and I'm working withmy colleagues in the Cabinet, with Government officials and our partners in local government to developand finalise these plans. The key areas that we're looking at are supporting and safeguarding thevulnerable and ensuring continuity of learning. This includes all of those who benefit from free schoolmeals and children with additional learning needs. I can confirm that all maintained schools in Walesalready have access to a range of digital tools that can support distance learning through the world-classHwb digital learning platform, including virtual classrooms and video-conferencing facilities. A guide onwhat tools are available and how schools can use them has been developed and is being promotedwidely. Yesterday, I announced that, whilst there are no easy choices, we have agreed that the best wayforward is not to proceed with the summer exam series. Learners due to sit these exams will be awardeda fair grade to recognise their work, drawing on a range of information that is available, and I willannounce further details shortly, but I felt it necessary to give early certainty to students and to staff. Iwould like to put on record my thanks to everyone working in education settings for the hard work thatthey have put in over the last few months in dealing with the virus and ensuring that pupils have beenable to continue to learn. We need to continue to do this work together, as we face the continuingchallenges posed by the coronavirus. Diolch yn fawr.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you very much, Minister,for that statement. We'll go to questions from Members now, and I've got some questions from DawnBowden.Dawn Bowden AM: Thank you, Chair. Can I thank you, Kirsty, for your statement and the reallydifficult decisions that you've been having to make? You've already indicated in your statement thismorning that these decisions are not taken lightly, and we understand that that is the case acrossGovernment. So, thank you for what you've been doing. You've outlined a little bit further there in yourstatement to us this morning about the new purpose. I take from what you're saying that you haven'treally developed that yet in terms of exactly what that is going to look like. You've talked about thechildren of key workers, free school meals, additional learning needs. Is there anything else you can tellus about that at the moment and how you might staff the schools in those particular areas?Kirsty


Marketing: Right first time this time . Nu There we go . It's not that complicated , but I get it wrong everytime . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay so we are just waiting for Matthew {gap} .Marketing: ForMatthew , yep .Project Manager: Mm . Uh {disfmarker} So I suggest we start the meeting uh withoutMatthew uhMarketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Mm 'kay .Project Manager: he's uh obviously latefor some reason . {vocalsound} Good . Um . Today uh we will uh talk about uh conceptual design . I hopeuh you both did some uh some work uh concerning a uh conceptual design .Marketing: Mm-hmm .ProjectManager: Um this will be the uh agenda for the meeting uh {gap} . Uh I will take some minutes uh again.Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Um we will have the presentations of y of you different teammembers ,Marketing: Yep .Industrial Designer: Yep .Project Manager: and then try to come to decisionsuh about the concepts uh you have presented . So and that uh will uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer:Mm-hmm .Project Manager: we have some uh forty minutes uh to complete this uh .Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: So um who has the fir do you ha Anna do you have your presentation ready?Marketing: I have a presentation , I'm just making this {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah I think{disfmarker} {vocalsound} yeah the {disfmarker} Matthew it is it's important that Matthew yeah ishereProject Manager: Okay . AhIndustrial Designer: because it's really a a team uh project with ateamProject Manager: there is Matthew .Industrial Designer: and if someone is not here then we cannot{disfmarker}User Interface: Sorry .Industrial Designer: but it's okay {vocalsound} it's good .{vocalsound}Marketing: Okay I'll just email you this file , my presentation .Project Manager: So . Good .Do {gap} presentation ready ?Marketing: Mm-hmm I'm just emailing it to you .Project Manager: Oh okay.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: So did you manageuh {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah I sent you the slides , you didn't see them ?Project Manager: Ohyes I see him , good yes .User Interface: Okay . {gap} .Project Manager: No .User Interface:{vocalsound} So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} 'Kay .Marketing: Okay it should've gone through to you.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay mm yes I have it .User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: Mm-hmm . Okay so this is just a presentation on uh the trends that we're gonnause to make the product stand out from the rest of the products out there at the moment . Um can I justput this on ? So we have to work out a way {disfmarker} what we can do with our product to make itstand out and make it so people wanna buy it . Um . This is {disfmarker} to do this I will not remove mymicrophone . {vocalsound} We basically used um some focus group surveys which I went through withyou last time , the main results of that , and um some research on the current design um and fashiontrends that are out there at the moment um ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: and as part ofthis {disfmarker} The important aspects that came out were things that we've already discussed really .The most important by far was the look and feel of it . It needs to be something that's very different fromeverything else out there . It needs to stand out {vocalsound} . It needs to be not functional like the restof the things out there at the moment . Most people find remote controls boring at the moment , we needto have something that looks interesting , that looks exciting , that will stand out . People will wanna buyit . Um {disfmarker} That was twice as i important as the next item on here which is that it has to betechnologically innovative {disfmarker} has to have something else , apart from just the look of it .People have to then think about it and say {gap} got something there that I want . That's a really coolfeature , and it has to make them wanna buy it again . Third on the list , and again innovative was twiceas important as this last um aspect , it has to be easy to use . So they have to be able to {disfmarker} beable to look at it and have some intuitive idea of how to use it um . Drawing on the fashion trends at themoment , uh fruit and vegetables um . This is basically talking about just the the feel of it , so probablynot the smell of it , but the bright colours , um eye-catching , really bold designs , and a spongy feel.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: Um I had a talk to the design people about this , but having a remote that's tactile , that feelsdifferent , that would be really cool . That would make it stand out . Um .Project Manager: Hmm.Industrial Designer: So can you repeat and be more precise about what you just said ?Project Manager:


Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I'm proud of it . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}ProjectManager: Okay . This is our final meeting , the detailed design meeting . And again I'll take minutes . The{disfmarker} what we have to get through in this meeting is firstly the prototype presentation from youtwo , so you can show us what you've been working on so diligently .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Itdoes look very cool .Project Manager: Um thenIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager:{vocalsound} then Cat's going to present the evaluation criteria that we're going to be evaluating thisagainst .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Then I need to say some st a few things aboutfinance , 'cause we have to check that it's within the finance criteria . Um and then we'll be making surethat our product fits both the evaluation criteria from Cat and the financial limits . Um and then we uh willhave a brief evaluation of the whole process of production and design that we've been through . So we'vegot forty minutes . SMarketing: And then do we get to make a remote control ?Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} 'Cause we missed out .User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: SoIndustrial Designer:{vocalsound}Project Manager: it's now {disfmarker} I guess that we're supposed to start at fifteen thirtyfive , so we've got until four fifteen .Industrial Designer: Uh-huh . How how much do we have , fortyminutes ?Project Manager: Is that right ?User Interface: Yeah , about four fifteen , yeah .ProjectManager: Yeah ,Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: until about four fifteen . Soyeah . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay , so .Project Manager: Go for it . Do youwant {disfmarker}User Interface: So , you said um {disfmarker} are are we starting with the the{disfmarker}Project Manager: Yes .Industrial Designer: Presentation .User Interface: so will you maybestart with like the mm the shape and things and and then I will explain the the user interface th uh things, like the buttons and the scrolling things and {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay .{vocalsound} Okay . So um basically going with our trend of vegetables and {vocalsound} {disfmarker}we selected the colour and approximate shape of banana .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} You think bananas are a safe thing to use ?Project Manager:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: It's a bit umphallic .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Um {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound} Well , but it's it's just an a approximation . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Dual use ,perfect .Industrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Dual use , perfect .UserInterface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Oh , {vocalsound} {gap} your remote control ? Oh that's just bad .{vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Does it vibrate when you press the buttons ?IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound} Um so basically it's the it's the flip open thing again .Project Manager: Sorry ,sorry .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So now we we have the {disfmarker} okay,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: so Ma Maarika will explain you the user interface there .And it flips open on the side , so it opens like that . And we have the user interface o in hereProjectManager: Mm-hmm . Wow .Industrial Designer: and uh {vocalsound} the the L_C_D_ and and the scrollare inside . Um well , everything else is probably user interface , so . Yeah , yeah .Project Manager: Andit's {disfmarker} the whole thing's made of rubber , is that {disfmarker}User Interface: Uh yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Oh yeah . Yeah , it has , yeah .User Interface: Rubber .Marketing: Isit to scale , or do you think you can make it a bit smaller ?User Interface: Yeah , {gap} . Um it could bemade a bit smaller , and and of course it would be {gap} and {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah .UserInterface: {vocalsound} yeah , but um one thing we actually kind of um forgot while designing , that oneside was supposed to be rounder ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah ,User Interface: so we said theback side round , yeah .Industrial Designer: well , but i since it's made of rubber anyway . I I think it's it'suh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: It l does look like the {gap} curvyUser Interface:Yeah .Marketing: and then the whole shape's curvy , so I would say that this curvy does look quite like avegetable .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Mm . Hmm .UserInterface: Yeah . And it's spongy as well . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing:


Project Manager: SoMarketing: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: I hope you're ready for this uhfunctional design meeting .Marketing: Of course . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um so I will take theminutes you mm you three are going to do presentation . Um uh we want to know {disfmarker} to{disfmarker} at the end to know the new project's requirement so we need uh to know the the user uhneeds that we want to fulfil to fulfil the {disfmarker} from the technical part we want to know how itgoing to work and um third part {vocalsound} uh I don't remember {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: which is not very good . Ah of course , how to to design thisuh this {disfmarker}Marketing: Nice stuff {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} yeah . So umlet's go for the three presentations , so first um Marketing Expert .Marketing: {vocalsound} Who starts ?{vocalsound} Oh . Ha . okay .Project Manager: So wait a minute . Mm .Marketing: So I dunno if I can dothat like this ? Yeah ? So it's being modified . Do you want {disfmarker} yeah , open . Read only . I hopeI saved it . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: So , umUser Interface: SammyBenjo . I know this name uh .Marketing: yeah , this is my name . {vocalsound}Project Manager:{vocalsound} Sounds uh {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} We met before .Marketing: So asyou know , you {disfmarker} I think you already know me , Sammy Benjo . I am the expert in marketingand I want to tell you about what people uh s want and uh like and dislike in remote controls , and I hopethis is going to help you to to design it correctly . So next please . Uh-oh . {vocalsound}Project Manager:Mm {vocalsound} uh .Industrial Designer: Yeah , it is put F_ five {gap} .Project Manager: Hmm.Marketing: {vocalsound} Hmm .Industrial Designer: The full page presentation , yep .Marketing: Yeahmaybe in the full pageProject Manager: Okay .User Interface: F_ F_ five .Marketing: because i I spentlots of time doing this presentation , so .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Yep .Project Manager: F_ five.Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Uh-huh hmm okay .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Mm .Marketing:So basically uh what I suggest is that uh instead of deciding ourself what what could be and what shouldbe a good uh remote control , let's ask people who are users of remote controls how they feel about wthe current remote controls , what they like , what they don't like and um and what they do with them bythe way {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: because they are supposed to beuseful . {vocalsound} Don't forget about that . So we've we've conducted a a survey on on the use of uhremote controls and I'd like to show you some of the results we found on this survey . And next please .Yeah , so basically what we found was that uh there are several things that the user don't like in remotecontrols . First of all , they find it very ugly . {vocalsound} Current remote controls as you know they'rethe same as this one uh they're not nice colour , not nice shape , I mean they're all the same , andthey're not l good looking . Um what is interesting is that in fact it seems that they were {disfmarker}people are ready to pay for nice and look {disfmarker} and fancy looking uh remote control , so I thinkwe should probably spend lots of time in {disfmarker} and effort in that um . And the other thing is thatuh the the current remote controls are not so easy to use and it it {disfmarker} the the current uhfacilities that they offer do not match what people really want to use their remote controls . For instanceuh we see that uh they zap very often so I think this is a very uh important uh functionality that it shouldbe easy for them to to zap uh in one way or another . And most of the buttons uh on uh current remotecontrols are not used , so I think we should design something where some of the buttons which are thosethat are used should be easier to see and use than others that only a couple of people are using . Umnext please . {vocalsound} Now {vocalsound} people are very frustrated w with their {vocalsound}remote controlsIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: and they for instance uh theydon't even find it {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: it's {vocalsound} it's often lostsomewhere in the in the {disfmarker} in your home and nobody knows where it is .Industrial Designer:Yeah .User Interface: Agree .Marketing: Maybe if we have something where we could {vocalsound} askthe remote control please , where are you ?Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound} Like uh something to to{disfmarker} like t I think phones . Some of the phones have some of this kind of s functionality . Uh of


The Chair (Hon. Anthony Rota (NipissingTimiskaming, Lib.)): I call this meeting to order. Welcome to the12th meeting of the House of Commons Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic. This will be thefirst hybrid meeting of the committee. Some members will be participating via videoconference and somewill be participating in person. This follows the order made by the House on May26,2020. Members whohave already participated in a virtual meeting of the special committee may actually not notice anychange, except for the fact that some members are also participating from the floor of the House. Anadditional rubric, that of statements by members, was also added to the proceedings of the committee.In order to ensure that those joining the meeting via video conference can be seen and heard by those inthe chamber, two screens have been set up in the chamber on either side of the Speakers chair. Soundamplification for virtual interventions will be available, and members in the chamber can listen to thefloor sound or interpretation using the earpieces on their desks. Before speaking, please wait until Irecognize you by name. Please also direct your remarks through the Chair. Thank you. For those of youjoining via video conference, I would like to remind you to leave your mike on mute when you are notspeaking. Also, please note that if you want to speak in English, you should be on the English channel. Ifyou want to speak French, you should be on the French channel. Should you wish to alternate betweenthe two languages, you should change the channel to the language that you are speaking each time youswitch languages. Should members participating by videoconference need to request the floor outsidetheir designated speaking times, they should activate their microphone and state that they have a pointof order. Those in the chamber can simply rise in the usual way. Please note that today's proceedings willbe televised in the same way as a typical sitting of the House. Next we'll move on to ministerialannouncements. I understand that there are no ministerial announcements today, so we'll move on topetitions. We'll be presenting petitions for a period not exceeding 15 minutes. I would like to remindmembers that any petition presented during a meeting of the special committee must have already beencertified by the clerk of petitions. For members participating in person, we ask that they please come anddrop the signed certificates off at the table once the petitions are presented. First on our list forpresenting petitions is Ms. May, who is joining us virtually.Ms. Elizabeth May (SaanichGulf Islands, GP):Mr. Chair, what an honour to be the first voice coming to you from the screens on either side of theSpeaker of the House. I speak to you from SaanichGulf Islands on the traditional territory of the WSNECpeople. Hych'ka Siem. I'm presenting a petition, number 431-00215, and it has been certified. Thepetitioners call on this House to take note of the fact that Canada is the only country with a universalhealth care system that does not include the provision of necessary prescription medications. They notethat the system across Canada is a patchwork that leaves three million Canadians unprepared anduninsured to be able to purchase necessary medications. They call on the House assembled to put inplace a system of universal national pharmacare, bringing down the cost of drugs through bulkpurchasing. I think I'll call that a summary, Mr. Chair. Thank you very much.The Chair: The next petitionwill be presented by Mr. Genuis.Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood ParkFort Saskatchewan, CPC): Thank youvery much, Mr. Chair. I'm pleased to be presenting two petitions before the committee today. The firstpetition is in support of Bill S-204. This Senate public bill, been put forward by Senator Salma Ataullahjanin the Senate, would make it a criminal offence for someone to go abroad to receive an organ for whichthere has not been consent. It also has a mechanism by which somebody could be deemed inadmissibleto Canada for being involved in the horrible practice of forced organ harvesting and trafficking. This billhas been before various Parliaments for over 10 years, and petitioners are hopeful that this Parliamentwill be the one that finally takes action to address forced organ harvesting and trafficking. The secondpetition is put forward by folks who are concerned about Bill C-7, particularly the efforts by thegovernment through Bill C-7 to remove vital safeguards that are currently associated with Canada'seuthanasia regime. Petitioners are not happy about the fact that the government is trying to eliminatethe 10-day reflection period and remove other safeguards that only four short years ago the governmentthought were essential for the euthanasia and assisted suicide system that they were putting in place.


Project Manager: Okay . So welcome back .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: What do {gap}{disfmarker} do we have to do ? {vocalsound}Marketing: {gap} .Project Manager: So first . I want tosay I'm the secretary , so I make the minutes . You find them in your {disfmarker} in the map in theFrom the group . There's the minutes from the first meeting . You'll find the next minutes also there .Then {vocalsound} I wanna hear from you , what you've done . And after that I have some new productrequirements . So {disfmarker} And after that we have to make decisions , what we will do . And thenwe're ready . We have forty minutes for this meeting . After that we'll have lunch . So first I wanna askthe {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Industrial Designer to tell what he did . So {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: That's my task . Okay . Uh I've {disfmarker} Where have I put it ? My Documents or not ?Hmm . I've save it on my computer , my presentation .Project Manager: Yeah on your computer , or the{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: But where ?Project Manager: What's the name ?Industrial Designer: Uhuh uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: What's the name of it ?Industrial Designer: It was about theworking of the remote control .Project Manager: It's the technical function or the functional requirements.Industrial Designer: Nope .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Not a {gap} of{disfmarker} Wait . The working design . But I've saved it .Project Manager: Working design .IndustrialDesigner: But now I don't know where it is . Hmm .Project Manager: Working design . What is this ?Product documents .Industrial Designer: Yeah . And I import this until {disfmarker}Project Manager: Onthe desktop . Up . {gap} up . Up . Up .Industrial Designer: One more .Project Manager: Up .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yes . My Documents . Nope .Industrial Designer: What the fuckis this ?Project Manager: Gone . {vocalsound} Well you {disfmarker} Um {disfmarker} Nah . Nah , nah ,nah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: PowerPoint . Working design .IndustrialDesigner: Yeah that's the empty one .Project Manager: {vocalsound} And {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: I had one .Project Manager: Presentation of working design .Industrial Designer: Uh-huh .Open it . Okay here it is .Project Manager: Save as {gap} .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uhit's {disfmarker}Marketing: Desktop .Project Manager: Project {gap} .Industrial Designer: Project.Marketing: Yeah . Okay . Well .Project Manager: Save .Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: Verygood .Industrial Designer: A little later but here it is .Marketing: {gap}Project Manager: Okay . So{disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So okay . It's a little difficultwhat I'm gonna tell you . It's about the working of the remote control . I just had an half an hour j tostudy itUser Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and {vocalsound} I don't get it .Marketing:{vocalsound} Make it .Project Manager: Now have ten minutes to tell it .Industrial Designer: Ten minutesto tell it . Okay . I think it will be a few minutes and {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay .IndustrialDesigner: First uh I will tell you something about the findings , what I discovered about the remotecontrol . The working bout it {disfmarker} uh of it . Uh then I'll have uh some kind of map , and it's thetop of the remote control . With a little bit of science , uh you {disfmarker} I will show that uh in in a fewminutes . And then uh what I'll think about it . First , the findings . The remote control is a very difficultuh thing to uh to explain to just all of you wh who haven't seen a remote control uh inside . Uh there's alot of uh plastic on it ,Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: um because its uh not so expensive .And there are uh a lot of uh wires , uh which um connect the components in it , the battery , and thereare um switches and things like that . There's a lot of small uh electronics . So it won't be um uh tooexpensive to build it . Only twelve Euro fifty I think uh we will make it . Now {gap} {disfmarker} Andhere I have the top of the remote control . Uh here's some kind of chip . Uh on top of this , there are uhthe numbers . Uh you have all on your remote control . And uh the teletext uh button . And uh here's thebattery . And when you push the button , it will uh will be sent to the chip . And the chip will um send it toall kind of sub-components . That's what I said , it's very difficult .Project Manager:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: And after that it will be sent to the infrared . And that will send it toyour television . That's a short h uh how it works . Uh I think I can uh make it uh difficult , but we all{vocalsound} we all don't get it . My preferences ? It's uh {disfmarker} it won't be uh {disfmarker} We


Project Manager: Okay uh Agnes , you can help me for the slide when {gap}User Interface: Yep . Sure.Project Manager: okay . Okay , welcome back . I hope uh you have a fresh head and a fresh time . How tnow the meeting actually we gathering here to discuss about the functional design meeting . Okay , anduh we'll issue some information from uh all of you . And it's in the , I think uh , in the sharing folder . Anduh I will invite uh the Christine and the Ed and uh Agnes to discuss about on the various subjects . So canyou go to the next slide ? Yeah uh the agenda of the meeting is opening . Then uh I'm going to talk aboutuh the project management , what I'm going to do , and uh , of course , I'm doing the projectmanagement and secretary both , okay , to take the minutes of the meeting . And there are threepresentations . One is uh new project requirements . And the second one about uh decision on remotecontrol functions . And uh finally we are closing . Uh and the meeting time will be uh forty minutes , soyou have to be very quick . And I have come up with the {disfmarker} management come with the newproposal , okay , and I have to discuss a few points on this . Uh both says new insights in the aim of yourproject . Uh the one is uh the teletext becomes uh outmoded , okay because if uh because of thecomputer systems and the new technology . So we don't need to consider really about the teletext all inour new project design . And the second one is about uh the remote control . Should be used only for theT_V_ . That's what our uh management says . And the third point , it's very very important to establishour uh marketing or uh corporate image , okay , with this new project or new product . Okay .{vocalsound} So I will invite uh {disfmarker} Agnes , can you go to the third slide ?User Interface: No ,this is the third slide .Project Manager: Okay , {gap} . So , I'll invite uh Christine to discuss about uh thefunctional design .Industrial Designer: 'Kay , do you wanna open the {disfmarker}User Interface: Sure .Um . You're participant sIndustrial Designer: I'm number two .User Interface: Two ?Project Manager:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: That's it .User Interface: Do you want the mouse , or do you want meto {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I'll do the notes . Yeah , thanks .Project Manager:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So um well I I figured uh we should um identify some userrequirements , and from my experience , I wanna uh , and from {vocalsound} research I did , uh the thedevice has to turn the television on and off the first time you press on the big button , you can't uh can'thave like uh waffling on this point , you know .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Reallyhave {disfmarker} It needs to be able y y have to be able to find it . Because one of the biggest problemswith remote controls is finding them . So uh , I also , since we have to establish our corporate image onthe basis of this new product , thought we better look at things that are popular and um ex go beyondthose , and , as I said in the first meeting , um {vocalsound} and then uh we might wanna talkeventually about the materials that are appropriate to use in uh in the construction , especially in the theuh the outside of the productProject Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: so that it gives theappearance , and it is reliable , and so forth . {vocalsound} I did a little history on uh the the uh remotecontrols and when they were invented and so forth , so , I guess this guy Zenith uh created theFlashmatic , which I kinda like the idea , 'cause it made me think of um um maybe the remote controlmade a big flash when uh you turn the T_V_ on and off , that might be interesting . And um{vocalsound} so it was highly directional flash light that uh you could turn the picture on and off , and thesound on and off , and change channels c so I think um those are still requirements we have today , uhfifty years later .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: And uh itwas really a pioneering innovation , but it was uh sensitive to the sun , so that uh it would get{disfmarker} would start off by the {disfmarker} you'd get {disfmarker} it would easily cause umproblems . So , uh I {disfmarker} in addition to uh looking at the um {vocalsound} uh the functionalrequir so all these devices are examples of where uh mm {disfmarker} they {vocalsound} representexamples that are available today {vocalsound} {vocalsound} which I think the one in the middle is r umreally uh something to keep in mind .Marketing: Fantastic . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: It'd be easy to find . And um it would uh y you'd {vocalsound}{disfmarker} you could throw it at things if if the T_V_ didn't turn on and off , you could use it for


Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and EducationCommittee. We've received apologies for absence from Suzy Davies and Jack Sargeant and I'm verypleased to welcome Jayne Bryant back, who is substituting for Jack today. Are there any declarations ofinterest from Members, please? No. Okay, thank you. Item 2, then, this morning, is our sixth scrutinysession on the Children (Abolition of Defence of Reasonable Punishment) (Wales) Bill. I'm very pleased towelcome our witnesses this morning: Sally Jenkins, who is chair of All Wales Heads of Children’s Servicesand is here representing the Association of Directors of Social Services; Alastair Birch, who is seniorsystem leader for equalities and safeguarding at Pembrokeshire County Council, who is here representingthe Association of Directors of Education Wales; and Councillor Huw David, who is the Welsh LocalGovernment Association spokesperson for health and social care and leader of Bridgend County BoroughCouncil. So, thank you all for attending this morning. We're very pleased to have you here. We've got alot of ground to cover, so, if you're happy, we'll go straight into questions and I'll start just by askingabout your general support for the Bill, which is outlined in the evidence. Can you just explain why youthink the current law is ineffective or unclear?Alastair Birch: Bore da—bore da, bawb. So, I'm AlastairBirch. The statement, really, from ADEW is that the rights of the child should be educated and achieved,really, under the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child. The current legislation has beencriticised, obviously, by the UN concerning the defence of reasonable punishment still being within ourcurrent legislation. So, we will always—ADEW will always—advocate that the rights of the child be upheld,so that is really the fundamental aspect in terms of the statement from ADEW, and the position of ADEWis that the rights of the child are fundamental in this process. And there are certain articles—. I know thatthe Rights of Children and Young Persons (Wales) Measure 2011 made sure that article 3 and article 4,article 12 and article 37 were a focus in terms of making sure that the best interests of the child were putfirst, that children expressing their views and opinions was a priority. And we know, for safeguardingpurposes, that the express opinions of the child and the voice of the child are a fundamental aspect ofany safe environment, whether it be a school or college. So, that is—the position is really following thatlegal position under the Rights of Children and Young Persons (Wales) Measure.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay,thank you. Nothing to add at this stage, no?Sally Jenkins: I'll just add, on behalf of ADSS and on behalfof children's services and social services more widely, for us, this is not a change in our position, this isnot new; this is a position that we, on behalf of the leaders of social services across Wales, have takenover many years, going back 20, 25 years. I think what we would say is that we really welcome this Billand we welcome the proposed change for the clarity it would bring—the clarity that it would bring forchildren, for parents and for professionals. I think what we would recognise is that this is a verylittle-used piece of legislation, so it's rare, it's not as if this is something that is going to cast great changeacross the scene for children and families in Wales, but what it will do is represent a change in the realityof how we care and nurture our children. I would echo absolutely what Alastair has said in terms of therights of the child, but equally, in terms of all of our policies in Wales in terms of promoting well-being forchildren, this has to be key. So, for us, this is about a natural progression of change in how we care forour children in Wales. For children's services at the very sharp end of this world, for us, it brings a trueclarity. This continues with an ambiguity in how we treat our children and how we care for our children,and the shift for us brings that very much needed clarity.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. Thecommittee has already heard different views about whether there's clear evidence that physicalpunishment is harmful to children. What evidence does the work of social services provide about whetherphysical punishment is actually harmful?Sally Jenkins: Obviously, what you'll all be aware of is that, aspart of the consultation for this Bill, the Public Policy Institute did a further piece of research to look at theimpact of physical punishment on children. A number of things that we know—we know from across theworld that the evidence is that introducing legislation or changing legislation in this way improveschildren's positions within their families. What we know is that children themselves, as Alastair hasalready referred to, really find physical punishment demeaning and harmful, and for children it is an


PhD B: OK . We 're on .Grad E: Hello ?Professor A: OK , so uh {vocalsound} had some interesting mailfrom uh Dan Ellis . Actually , I think he {disfmarker} he {vocalsound} redirected it to everybody also souh {vocalsound} the PDA mikes uh have a big bunch of energy at {disfmarker} at uh five hertz uh wherethis came up was that uh I was showing off these wave forms that we have on the web and {disfmarker}and uh {vocalsound} I just sort of hadn't noticed this , but that {disfmarker} the major , majorcomponent in the wave {disfmarker} in the second wave form in that pair of wave forms is actually theair conditioner .Grad C: Huh .Professor A: So . So . I {vocalsound} {vocalsound} I have to be morecareful about using that as a {disfmarker} as a {disfmarker} {vocalsound} as a good illustration , uh , infact it 's not , of uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} of the effects of room reverberation . It is isn't a badillustration of the effects of uh room noise . {vocalsound} on {disfmarker} on uh some mikes uh but So .And then we had this other discussion about um {vocalsound} whether this affects the dynamic range ,cuz I know , although we start off with thirty two bits , you end up with uh sixteen bits and {vocalsound}you know , are we getting hurt there ? But uh Dan is pretty confident that we 're not , that {disfmarker}that quantization error is not {disfmarker} is still not a significant {vocalsound} factor there . So . Sothere was a question of whether we should change things here , whether we should {vocalsound} changea capacitor on the input box for that or whether we shouldPhD B: Yeah , he suggested a smaller capacitor, right ?Professor A: Right . But then I had some other uh thing discussions with himPhD B: For the PDProfessor A: and the feeling was {vocalsound} once we start monk monkeying with that , uh , manyother problems could ha happen . And additionally we {disfmarker} we already have a lot of data that 'sbeen collected with that , so .PhD B: Yeah .Professor A: A simple thing to do is he {disfmarker} he{disfmarker} he has a {disfmarker} I forget if it {disfmarker} this was in that mail or in the followingmail , but he has a {disfmarker} a simple filter , a digital filter that he suggested . We just run over thedata before we deal with it .PhD B: Mm - hmm .Professor A: um The other thing that I don't know theanswer to , but when people are using Feacalc here , uh whether they 're using it with the high - passfilter option or not . And I don't know if anybody knows .Grad E: Um . {vocalsound} I could go check.Professor A: But . Yeah . So when we 're doing all these things using our software there is {disfmarker}um if it 's {disfmarker} if it 's based on the RASTA - PLP program , {vocalsound} which does both PLPand RASTA - PLP {vocalsound} um then {vocalsound} uh there is an option there which then comes upthrough to Feacalc which {vocalsound} um allows you to do high - pass filtering and in general we like todo that , because of things like this and {vocalsound} it 's {disfmarker} it 's pretty {disfmarker} it 's nota very severe filter . Doesn't affect speech frequencies , even pretty low speech frequencies , at all , but it'sPhD B: What 's the {pause} cut - off frequency it used ?Professor A: Oh . I don't know I wrote this awhile agoPhD B: Is it like twenty ?Professor A: Something like that .PhD B: Yeah .Professor A: Yeah . Imean I think there 's some effect above twenty but it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker}it 's mild . So , I mean it probably {disfmarker} there 's probably some effect up to a hundred hertz orsomething but it 's {disfmarker} it 's pretty mild . I don't know in the {disfmarker} in the STRUTimplementation of the stuff is there a high - pass filter or a pre pre - emphasis or something in the{disfmarker}PhD F: Uh . I think we use a pre - emphasis . Yeah . Yeah .Professor A: So . We{disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we want to go and check that in i for anything that we 're going to use theP D A mike for . {vocalsound} uh He says that there 's a pretty good roll off in the PZM mikes so{vocalsound} we don't need {disfmarker} need to worry about them one way or the other but if we domake use of the cheap mikes , {vocalsound} uh we want to be sure to do that {disfmarker} that filteringbefore we {vocalsound} process it . And then again if it 's uh depending on the option that the{disfmarker} our {disfmarker} our software is being run with , it 's {disfmarker} it 's quite possible that's already being taken care of . uh But I also have to pick a different picture to show the effects ofreverberation . uhPhD B: Did somebody notice it during your talk ?Professor A: uh No .PhD B: Huh.Professor A: Well . uh Well . If they made output they were {disfmarker} they were , you know{disfmarker} they were nice .PhD B: Didn't say anything ?Professor A: But . {vocalsound} I mean the


Industrial Designer: 'S to do now is to decide how to fulfil what your stuff is ,Marketing: Yeah .IndustrialDesigner: so in that sense {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Yeah , sure .IndustrialDesigner: so it does kind of make sense , yeah .Project Manager: Okay , well {disfmarker}Marketing: Itkinda does make sense , doesn't it , because when we get into the end of meeting we're kind of{vocalsound} talking about action and design as opposed to background .Industrial Designer: Yep.Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Everything I have is kinda background .Project Manager: Okay we allready to go ?Industrial Designer: Yep .Project Manager: Well how um on the {disfmarker} in this meetingthen if we um {disfmarker} I'll just just recap on the minutes from the last meeting . And we uh decidedonIndustrial Designer: Yep .Project Manager: decided on our our target group being fifteen to thirty five,Marketing: {vocalsound} Mm-hmm .Project Manager: and we decided that it was gonna benon-rechargeable battery-powered , that we're gonna group our audio-visual and other functions into intothose categories , um {vocalsound} . And I told you guys about the three new requirements aboutignoring teletext , ignoring everything except the T_V_ , and trying to incorporate the the uh corporatecolour and slogan . Um so that was the last meeting .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Isthere anything {disfmarker} have I forgotten anything ?Industrial Designer: No .Project Manager: Is thateverything ?Marketing: Uh that sounds {gap} .Project Manager: Okay . Um so if we have the threepresentations , and then if you have anything to kind of {disfmarker} that you know you're gonna wantto discuss , maybe just make a note of it , and we'll have all the discussion at the end . That might be abetter idea this time .Marketing: Sure .Project Manager: And so if we start off uh with Andrew and thenCraig and then David ,Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: if that's alright .Marketing: Sure .IndustrialDesigner: Yep .Project Manager: Um and then after that we'll have to make some decisions about stuff ,right {vocalsound} .Marketing: Yeah , cool .Project Manager: So if you wanna take this .Marketing: Whydon't I get that {vocalsound} ? Hmm .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Screwed in quite tightly . Uh whatdid {disfmarker} uh how did we leave it with speech recognition now ? We {disfmarker} did we say wewere gonna try {disfmarker} maybe incorporate it but we hadn't made a definite decision on that?Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Right . Oh I should also point out that um the youknow the kind of final objective of this meeting is to reach a decision on the concepts of the product.Marketing: Okay . {vocalsound}Project Manager: So um {vocalsound} that's kind of the end resulthopefully .Marketing: Okay . Um alright so c is it function F_ eight ?Project Manager: {vocalsound}Uh-huh . Hopefully appear in a wee second .Marketing: Hmm . Come on . I think it's working .ProjectManager: Up there we go .Marketing: Okay great s so let me just start this . {vocalsound} Okay great .So um {vocalsound} uh s move on . Uh-huh {disfmarker} oh where'd it all go ?Project Manager:{vocalsound} Oh no .Marketing: It's not good . Okay lemme just see where I can find it . This looks morelike it . I think I just opened up the template .Project Manager: Oh right .Marketing: Sorry about that .Okay alright so let's have a look here .Project Manager: Here we go .Marketing: Okay so this was themethod that um I've taken . Uh basically what I wanna do here , before we get into it uh too far , is Iwant to show you all the background information I have that I think we need to acknowledge if we wantthis to be successful .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: And uh and then sorta g go through some of theway that I've dealt with that information , and then sort of bring us all together into it to see{disfmarker} sorta see how this fits in with the overall vision . Um so I've tried to take a whole lot ofmarket research and summarise it for us , and then ide identify uh trends that are are sort of in sync andare important to our our uh p project plan that we have so far , and then uh initiate a kind of discussionon design options so that it sorta helps us to to narrow in on on aspects that will inform other uh otherelements of the of the project . Does that make sense , tha that sort of strategy ?Industrial Designer: Yep.Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: I thought that that will impact on the rest of what we do , sothat's why I suggested we get in this .Project Manager: Aye a fair point definitely .Marketing: Okay so outof um different uh figures and ratings ob uh of people in general , um consumers in general , the numberone thing that was found was that uh the br t television remote control , a fancy look and feel , okay ,


Lynne Neagle AM: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and EducationCommittee. We've received apologies for absence from Julie Morgan, and I'm very pleased to welcomeDavid Rees, who is substituting for her today. Can I ask Members whether there are any declarations ofinterest, please? No. Okay. Thank you very much. Item 2 this morning, then, is a session with theMinister for Children and Social Care on the Welsh Government's childcare offer. So, I'm very pleased towelcome Huw Irranca-Davies, Minister for Children and Social Care, also Jo-Anne Daniels, director forcommunities and tackling poverty, and Owain Lloyd, deputy director for childcare, play and early years.So, thank you, all, for your attendance. If you're happy, we'll go straight into questions from Members,and the first questions come from Hefin David.Hefin David AM: Good morning, Minister. How has it gonein the early implementer local authority areas, and is it something of a mixed bag?Huw Irranca-DaviesAM: It's gone well, but I'm glad we've done it through this process of early implementer, actually pilotingit, because we're learning lessons as we go along. It has gone well. It's been encouraging, to the extentthat we're at the point where we're expanding—we've made announcements on expanding some of theearly implementer areas so we can learn more lessons. But, in terms of what we're learning, one is thebureaucracy around the current approach that we're taking, because it's being done on the seven earlyimplementers. So, we're asking parents to come in, provide their wage slips, provide the birthcertificates, and so on. You're dealing sometimes with parents and families with complex issues andcomplex backgrounds, so it's difficult. And the burden of administration on that is falling to each pilotarea. In one case, it's a whole authority, but it's only one—that's in Blaenau Gwent. In others, it's smallerareas. So, we're also hitting those—. The other big challenge we're hitting is communication. So, we'rehaving parents, generally, who are outside the areas entirely saying, 'Why haven't we got this yet? Canwe please get into it?', which is encouraging. But the other thing we're having is people who are withinpilot authorities, where it doesn't extend to the whole authority, saying, 'Well, hold on now, we think wequalify for something under universal care, we think we qualify for something on tax credits. Why don'twe qualify for this?' 'Well, you're not in the pilot area.' So, we're learning about these things, but thebiggest one, I have to say, is the administrative burden, and I think that's interesting in how we take thisforward for a wider roll-out.Hefin David AM: What is the administrative burden? What specifically isthat?Huw Irranca-Davies AM: It is that sheer burden on each local authority, and each pilot area, toadminister a scheme where we are asking parents to prove eligibility, to bring in documents to provetheir eligibility, to make adjustments as it goes forward based on what their changing work patterns are,what their salary slips say. It's incredibly bureaucratic. So, yesterday, when we made the statementfollowing the announcement of the introduction of the Childcare Funding (Wales) Bill, we made clear thatour preferred option, as put within that framework Bill, is actually to build on, and to learn from thelessons as well, the model of the HM Revenue and Customs type of model, where you actually have—andthis, by the way, is supported by local authority providers out there—one system that is a centralisedsystem, where there is clarity, that is handled, that has elements of information sharing betweenGovernment departments, such as the Department for Work and Pensions, and so on, so that the work isdone for the parents, and the work is done for the local authorities; much cleaner, much simpler.HefinDavid AM: How confident are you that you can achieve that by 2020?Huw Irranca-Davies AM: We arevery confident. But, as I say, I'm more confident in the fact that we're actually piloting it, and phasingthis in, because I think we've learned from some of the experiences elsewhere, including just over theborder in England, where they have a different version of a childcare offer, but they've gone for it in abig-bang approach. And it has led to technical issues, it's led to volume issues, where their anticipation ofhow many people would buy into it was overwhelmed by the numbers who actually then came forward forit, and the complexity, I have to say, of individual family situations, whereas what we are doing, Hefin, istaking this forward very, very carefully. Each roll-out, each expansion that we're doing of the pilot isnot—and I know this has caused some people to come back and say, 'Why can't we all have it now?' It'sbecause we're only rolling out to areas where we now need to learn a lesson about whether it's rurality


User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: Or you get it . Okay .User Interface: No I don't think so it hasto be like that yeah and you have to adjust the length . Okay , and then .Project Manager: {vocalsound}So we uh {disfmarker} we will wait for Anna , a few minutes .User Interface: Yeah , s yeah , um.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Mm {vocalsound} . Yours is well {disfmarker} {vocalsound}UserInterface: I think you can put anywhere you want , actually . I thinIndustrial Designer: Yeah but the themic should not {disfmarker}User Interface: It's not a directional mic , anyway .Project Manager: I think itshould work like this .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh .Project Manager: So I will tryto get my presentation running .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Mm.Industrial Designer: Mm . Can't help you with that .User Interface: Last .Project Manager: It's no matter.Industrial Designer: Okay , it's y yeah .Project Manager: No problem . Ah yes .Industrial Designer: Right.User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: Then press uh alUser Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer:This .Project Manager: I don't know .Industrial Designer: You know ?Project Manager: Just try .UserInterface: 'Kay .Project Manager: On this normal {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Oh oh .User Interface:Alt F_ five .Project Manager: Good . Doesn't appear on the screen here .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound} Right well {disfmarker}Project Manager: Oh .Industrial Designer: Wow . Amazing . It'sworking {vocalsound} .Project Manager: Okay . Thank you . {vocalsound} Uh .Marketing: Hold that .Okay .Project Manager: Yes and you can put can clip it uh on your {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay . Mm.Project Manager: Somewhere . So , {vocalsound} good morning , everyone . Um {disfmarker} Welcomeat uh {disfmarker} at the kick off meeting of our uh latest project .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Project Manager: I hope you all have been uh updated about it .Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: Good .User Interface: So . Yes .Project Manager: So w we will try to structure this uhmeeting with an a with an agenda uh as presented here . Um after the opening we will tr get acquaintedto each other .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: See what our roles are in this project . So ,um {disfmarker} We have been provided with uh some uh w technical tools to uh {disfmarker} tocommunicate and to well , learn from each other's plans uh as I can say um so w we will also try to uh toget acquainted to this tools so they are also new to me I don't know whether you worked with thembefore . Um then we will come to the uh to the to the actual project plan . You all know I hope{vocalsound} how it's about uh the uh new r remote control we are going going to design .Marketing:Mm-hmm .User Interface: Total .Project Manager: Uh then we will uh discuss uh , well , how it should beand uh {disfmarker} wh what uh what our new product should look lite {disfmarker} like . And uh wellthen uh after some twenty five minutes I hope uh we can end this meeting . So . Um basically this isabout a uh a new c remote control . Um {disfmarker} We {disfmarker} When you design a new productyou of {disfmarker} uh you of course want it to be original . Be uh {disfmarker} we want to bedistinguished , mm ? People uh want to uh when they look at the shelf want to think , well that's theproduct I I need . So it needs to be trendy . I mean trendy is what people want , so then I w they will buyour product . But then , uh , it also should work uh user friendly and uh otherwise people uh uh well it willnot be uh be rated very well in consumer uh articles and like that .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Project Manager: So , the general outline of uh new project will be we first uh go through afunctional design phase . Um {disfmarker} You all get uh um certain task uh in this uh in this phase anduh then we will meet again and uh discuss this functional design . And the same holds for the uh ph twophases uh after this , the conceptual design and after that a a more detailed design in which the the finalproject should get its definite shape . Alright , but first we will do some uh tool training . In all in front ofyou uh you see uh the uh notebooks and w uh n note blocks and we have here a a {disfmarker} a{disfmarker} a white-board .User Interface: WhiteboMarketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: And um wellit should work uh {disfmarker} I've read it from my uh from some colleague that it should work withsome kind of toolbar . I didn't find out yet how it work , but maybe one of you did , so {disfmarker} Um{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Under documents in the shared folder . Okay .Project Manager: Yes .Do {disfmarker} Do we have to say something about that ? I I I'm not fully updated about this shared