Project Manager: Uh , making a profit of fifty million Euros . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Alright sotwenty five .User Interface: Mm 'kay .Project Manager: So , it's go gonna have to be be pretty damntrendy . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So yeah , I've {disfmarker} The only the only remote controlsI've used usually come with the television , and they're fairly basic .Project Manager: Yeah . Yeah .UserInterface: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: So uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah , Iwas thinking that as well , I think the the only ones that I've seen that you buy are the sort of one for alltype things where they're ,User Interface: Yeah the universal ones . Yeah .Industrial Designer: Mm.Project Manager: yeah . So presumably that might be an idea to put into .Industrial Designer: But but tosell it for twenty five you need a lot of neat features . For sure .Marketing: Slim .Project Manager: Yeah ,yeah .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Uh 'cause I mean , what {disfmarker} uh twenty five Euros, that's about I dunno , fifteen Pounds or so ? And that's quite a lot for a remote control .User Interface:Mm-hmm , it's about that .Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah .User Interface: Mm .Marketing:{vocalsound}User Interface: Um well my first thoughts would be most remote controls are grey or black .As you said they come with the T_V_ so it's normally just your basic grey black remote control {gap}functions ,Project Manager: Uh-huh .User Interface: so maybe we could think about colour ?ProjectManager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Make {disfmarker} that might make it a bit different from the rest atleast . Um , and as you say , we need to have some kind of gimmick , so um I thought maybe somethinglike if you lose it and you can whistle ,Project Manager: Okay . {vocalsound} The the keyrings , yeahyeah .User Interface: you know those things ? Because we always lose our remote control .IndustrialDesigner: Right .Marketing: {vocalsound} Uh yeah uh ,Project Manager: Okay , that's cool .Marketing:being as a Marketing Exper Expert I will like to say like before deciding the cost of this remote control orany other things we must see the market potential for this product like what is the competition in themarket ? What are the available prices of the other remote controls in the prices ?Project Manager: {gap}Okay .Marketing: What speciality other remote controls are having and how complicated it is to use theseremote controls as compared to other remote controls available in the market . So before deciding orbefore finalising this project , we must discuss all these things , like {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay.Marketing: and apart from this , it should be having a good look also , because people really li uh like toplay with it when they are watching movies or playing with {gap} or playing with their C_D_ player ,M_P_ three player like any electronic devices .User Interface: Mm . Mm-hmm .Marketing: They reallywant to have something good , having a good design in their hands ,Project Manager: {gap}UserInterface: Mm-hmm . Yeah .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: so , yes ,Project Manager: 'Kay.Marketing: all this .Industrial Designer: Uh , what do we think a {disfmarker}Project Manager: So ,we're looking for {disfmarker} {gap} 'Kay .Industrial Designer: What do we think a good size would befor this ? {gap}Project Manager: We're {disfmarker}Marketing: {gap}Industrial Designer: 'Cause I Iknow as you add more buttons to the remote it sometimes gets so big and clunkyProject Manager: Sorry, carry on . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and there's just like a hundredbuttons on it ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: or you could have areally small slim one but then you could lose it easily . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm-hmm .UserInterface: Yeah . Then you lose it , yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Kind ofum , maybe more like a P_D_A_ kind of , just hand held , like ,Project Manager: For for uhUser Interface:'cause {disfmarker}Project Manager: remember we're trying to make it for twelve Euros fifty .{vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah . No , I wasn't , no sorry I wasn't thinking of the screen of like aP_D_A_Project Manager: Okay well right we'll have to um {disfmarker} I'll {disfmarker}User Interface:butProject Manager: we're k having another meeting in half an hour so umUser Interface: Okay .ProjectManager: we should all look into a bit uh , oh actually , no , we'll allocate . So you do the looking aroundat other remote controls .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Um , if you could maybe come up with sortof shapes and suggested shades or whatever , and you could look into um {vocalsound} basically howhow it's made I_E_ like how you make it all in one , how {disfmarker} what sort of materials are


The Chair (Hon. Anthony Rota (NipissingTimiskaming, Lib.)): I call this meeting to order.  Welcome to the23rd meeting of the House of Commons Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic.  A reminder toall members that in order to avoid issues with sound, members participating in person should not also beconnected to the video conference. For those of you who are joining via video conference, I will remindyou that when speaking you should be on the same channel as the language you are speaking, andplease use your headsets. As usual, please direct your remarks through the chair. As I understand, thereare no ministerial announcements today.  We will now proceed to presenting petitions. I remind membersthat any petition presented during a meeting of this special committee must have already been certifiedby the clerk of petitions. For members participating in person, I ask that they please come and drop theirsigned certificates off at the table once the petition is presented. I would ask members to be very briefand concise, and to summarize the exact content of the petition. We will continue. The first personpresenting a petition today is Ms. May.Ms. Elizabeth May (SaanichGulf Islands, GP): Thank you, Mr.Chair. I present two petitions this morning. The residents of SaanichGulf Islands are calling on thegovernment to simplify the process for protection of marine protected areas. It's a multi-layeredcommunication process. The marine protected area first proposed in the 1970s for the southern Strait ofGeorgia, now called the Salish Sea, has been awaiting designation for so long that it was originallyendorsed by Jacques Cousteau. That gives us a sense for why petitioners are calling for a simplified andmore rapid process. The second petition is from petitioners who are very concerned about our obligationsunder the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples and our commitments underthe Truth and Reconciliation Commission calls to action. They specifically reference the RCMP violation ofUNDRIP in its actions on Wet'suwet'en territory and ask the government to commit to actually living theprinciples embodied in UNDRIP.The Chair: We will now go to Mr. Hardie.Mr. Ken Hardie (FleetwoodPortKells, Lib.): Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am presenting a petition on behalf of the one in a million Canadianswho suffer severe and adverse effects from vaccinations. GuillainBarre syndrome is very debilitating, andthis petition seeks the setting up of a no-fault accident or compensation system to help offset the loss ofwork, the loss of wages and the loss of quality of life that many of these people suffer. I'm pleased topresent this petition pursuant to Standing Order 36.The Chair: Mr.Trudel, you have the floor.Mr. DenisTrudel (LongueuilSaint-Hubert, BQ): Mr.Chair, culture is the soul of a people. Over the past 20years orso, culture, especially music, has never been as accessible as it is now. Paradoxically, creators' incomeshave never been so low. The advent of digital technology has completely overturned the system fordistributing the wealth generated by creators for the benefit of various Web stakeholders, many of whomare billionaires. This petition addresses these problems and proposes realistic solutions. The first is to seta minimum royalty model for streaming platforms for artists. The second is to update the existing privatecopying system. The third is for Internet and cell phone providers who sell their services as direct accessto culture to share their profits with artists. The fourth is that the GAFAMs have to pay taxes on theirservices. Six thousand people have already signed the first version of this petition, launched last monthby musician JordanOfficer and supported by singer BarbaraSecours. As an artist, I am proud to presentthis petition today because the issues it raises are fundamental to the survival of Quebec culture.TheChair: We'll now continue with Mr. Genuis.Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood ParkFort Saskatchewan, CPC):Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I have four petitions to present today. I will be as brief as yousuggested, although I will observe that if some members are going on longer during petitions than theynormally do, it might be because the government has taken away so many of the tools that oppositionmembers normally have for raising important issues in the House. The first petition deals with the issueof euthanasia and long-term care. The petitioners are concerned that instead of focusing on improvingmedically assisted life, something that we know is a major issue in light of recent revelations, thegovernment has put so much time and legislative energy into efforts to continually further expandeuthanasia in Canada and remove vital safeguards. The second petition speaks to the ongoingconversations happening in Canada around systemic discrimination and systemic racism. I think we do


Marketing: Great man . Who starts ?Project Manager: Well I'll uh start just with another presentation , sothen we can uh look at th at the agenda uh for this meeting .Marketing: Alright , great . Alright .ProjectManager: {vocalsound} Okay . I've put some uh new things in the in the map .Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Uh oh . {vocalsound} This is it . I don't know the shortcut , so {disfmarker} Ah F_ five. Well our functional design meeting , that's the stage we're in .Industrial Designer: Mm .ProjectManager: And you also ha all three of you have uh prepared something about it .Marketing: Yes .ProjectManager: Well um in we'll uh just have a look at the at the notes from the previous meeting , what we uhthought we had dec decided . But uh {disfmarker} Uh then we'll uh look at uh the three uh presentationsuh from you . I think you have prepared uh all three uh ? {vocalsound}Marketing: 'Kay .IndustrialDesigner: Well , yeah .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Um we'll look at th the new projectrequirements we uh {disfmarker} I dunno . Y you also have uh received that mail , the new projectrequirements from our bosses ?Industrial Designer: No . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh I've receiveda mail with uh some additional requirements ,Marketing: No . You're the only one . {vocalsound}ProjectManager: and I'll have a look if {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Oh .Marketing: Alright .ProjectManager: Well I think we should show them before your presentations , because it's not really uh smartuh to uh to include some things uh we can't , because of the new requirements . Well um then we canmake some decisions about our remote control functions .Marketing: 'Kay .Project Manager: We have todeb we have to decide it in this meeting what our function will be . And then uh we can discuss uh somemore closely . Uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: We have forty minutes for this uh discussion ?ProjectManager: Uh yeah , I think so . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Alright .Project Manager: Well uh{gap} the closing uh we'll not uh look at it yet .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Alright .ProjectManager: Um {vocalsound} now I'll look at {gap} show {gap} this board . Um {disfmarker} Well uhnotes , first meeting . Now . I gave a disc a a presentation . Uh we familiarised ourself with the boardsand then we discussed some first ideas . So we said that uh we have to merge the strong points from ouruh competitors , and uh look at their uh remote controls .Marketing: Right .Project Manager: We shouldmake it uh compatible with our new D_V_D_ and other releases we have , our technical releases.Industrial Designer: Huh ?Project Manager: Uh not too many one buttons . One recognisable button inthe middle , where you do the most important functions with . And um well they can have two functions ,because uh you have a D_V_D_ and a television .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .ProjectManager: Um the design has to fit the hand , be original , but also be familiar . {vocalsound} It's uh oneof our ideas .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager:{vocalsound} Yeah well that wa It's just thirty minutes ago ,User Interface: {vocalsound}ProjectManager: so it's not quite uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} But well I have to do it .Industrial Designer:Mm-hmm , now it's right .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: The materials uh well shouldbe hard plastic with rubber from {gap} , and uh well the labelling of the buttons should be indestructible .It should be uh recognisable at all times .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: It's meant tobe easily wiped out , yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yes .User Interface: Mm .Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Well fronts were to be {gap} just like mobile telephones . And uh the technical aspectsum {disfmarker} And also labelling of the buttons , the functions should be universal standards . Wellthat's just uh some ideas from the first meeting . It's quite logical al all of it .Industrial Designer:Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Um now the new project requirements , I'll just show them . I got this mailfrom uh our bosses . Well , teletext goes out . We will not use teletext .User Interface: Oh .Marketing:Okay .Project Manager: Maybe a new sort of thing , but n but not teletext .Industrial Designer: I Idisagree , but uh it's not uh t it's not my place to disagree I guess .Project Manager: Well {disfmarker}the second is a bit sh pity because we just said we wanted to d include the D_V_D_User Interface: Oh.Project Manager: and they don't want it , because of our time we have for this project .Marketing: Alright.Industrial Designer: Oh , alright .User Interface: Oh , that's a shame .Project Manager: So that's ashame , because uh especially for the third requirement we want to reach people under the thirty years .


Project Manager: So uh good morning .User Interface: Morning .Marketing: Morning .Project Manager: Isee you all find your places .Industrial Designer: Morning .Project Manager: Is everybody sitting on theright place ? Yeah ?Marketing: Yep .Project Manager: I guess so . So {disfmarker} Let's see . First I willintroduce myself . I don't know if uh {disfmarker} if everybody knows me , so I'm Bart ,Marketing: Myname's Frank .Project Manager: hello . Hello .User Interface: I'm {gap} .Project Manager: Bart . Hello .Hello . Bart .Industrial Designer: {gap}Project Manager: Welcome .Marketing: Thank you .ProjectManager: Uh let's see . Uh let's start off um with a little presentation . Uh Now first I'll tell you a little bitabout the setting . You can see there are a few cameras here . They'll record uh our actions and you'llhave wires and microphones that will record your voice . Uh there are also some microphones there butth um you don't have to pay a lot of attention on those , because it will uh disappear when you don'tattend to it . So is there a project documents folder ? There are some notes in it already I see , somedocuments . Uh I'll start with the presentation kick off . Is being modified by the administrator . Uh okay{vocalsound} .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Hmm , that's interesting .ProjectManager: Let's do it read only . Well I don't know if you've noticed , but uh we're working for RealReaction . Uh it's a company in uh electronics . We put fashion in electronics , uh we make it work , uh weput a lot of effort in design and in the product itself . I'm Bart {gap} the project manager so I'll direct youthrough the project . This is our agenda . {vocalsound} Uh we have our opening acquaintance , tooltraining , project plan description closing .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh maybe I can sitdown , then I can take some notes or {disfmarker} Let's see . Maybe you can take the minutes once in awhile .Marketing: Sure .Project Manager: I dunno it's not a lot of work , but just uh if you hear somethinguh you can write down , just write it down . Uh as you can see uh it's the opening , aquaintance tooltraining . Aquaintance is a point we've done a bit . Um have you all seen the corporate website already ?Yeah .User Interface: Yep .Marketing: Yep . Visit it .Project Manager: Have you seen any flaws in it ? Ithink I found one . {vocalsound} No ?User Interface: Hmm ?Marketing: Can't say I paid much attentionto it ,Project Manager: I can see if it works this way . No , it doesn't work here .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay no problem . But um on the corporateinformation side there's a th uh {disfmarker} there was Real Remote instead of Real Reaction .Marketing:Oh yeah .Project Manager: Real Remote is not really the company we're {disfmarker} we are , but it'sjust a little {gap} fault .User Interface: Okay . Yeah .Project Manager: Um okay , what are we going to do? {vocalsound} Uh our project aim is as you can see a new remote control . It has to be original , trendy ,and user friendly . So these are uh the points why uh we also hired you . {vocalsound} We've got theMarketing Expert for uh the trendy and user friendly look .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: AndIndustrial Designer uh there's also user friendly and a bit original . {vocalsound} And we've got our UserInterface Designer .User Interface: Yep .Project Manager: He's also uh {disfmarker} That's about thenew remote control . Uh project method um is uh there are three phases we are going through . First isfunctional des uh design , individual work , meetings . After the functional design , then the conceptualdesign and the detailed design . {vocalsound} I had some role indications on here . But I think you knowit already by yourself . The Industrial Designer is going to work on the working design , uh componentsdesign and a bit of the look and feel design . Uh the User Interface Designer is going to do the technicalfunction design , user interface concept and user interface design . {vocalsound} And the marketingexpert is doing a little bit of user requirement specification , trend watching and project {disfmarker} uhproduct ev evaluation . So that's a bit what you're going to do . But that will be all worked out in uh othermeetings .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Then we've got our first tool training . {vocalsound}We are going to work with a lot of high-tech tools here , so it's ab it's handy if we have a little bit oftraining first . As you can see we've got the smart boards here and here in the white board . Um in thewhite board here there's a little tool bar on this side . Here are some functions . You can save . N uhthese functions we don't have anything to do with , only undo , you can undo a little uh piece of drawing .A blank new document for each person . Uh select a pen , eraser . Capture we don't have to do anything


Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay . Good afternoon again.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So we should have our final meeting about the detaildesigned of {disfmarker} detail design of the product of the remote control . Um {vocalsound} So here isthe agenda for today . Uh uh just going to go quickly through the minutes of the last last uh meeting thenwe have a p presentation of prototype of you two , sounds interesting . And we'll have um {vocalsound}presentation of evaluation crit criteria by ou our Marketing Experts . Then we'll have to go throughfinance evaluation of the of the cost of the thing and um hopefully uh we should fit the target o tw oftwelve point five uh uh Euro . {vocalsound} Okay . So let's go . Uh if I go quickly through the minutes ofthe last meeting . {vocalsound} So we went through th uh w we took this following decisions . NoL_C_D_ , no speech recognition technology , okay , we went through a b to a banana look and feel for theremote control . We went through the use of wheels and but buttons . {vocalsound} And also the use of abasis station for battery ch charging and uh also to um call the to call the mot mote remote control whenit is lost . Okay . Um . Good . So guys let {gap} this uh wonderful thing .Industrial Designer: Okay so wecan go to the slides .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Oh yeah . Sorry . Um .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Number three . Oh number two sorry .Project Manager: Which is {gap} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer:So final design . Final design . Okay so Michael you can go ahead .User Interface: Yeah so uh followingour decision to uh make a yellow {disfmarker} well to make a bananaProject Manager: Yeah can youshow it to the the camera maybe .User Interface: remote {disfmarker} okay so we actually have a{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: You can pull it out first , maybe .User Interface: We've {disfmarker}well first first of all we made a an attractive {vocalsound} base station uh with a banana leaf uh look andfeel um and uhProject Manager: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}User Interface: bana sit {disfmarker} thebanana sits in there k you know nicely weighted so that it's not gonna tip over and um this is the remoteitself , it's kind of it's it's ergonomic , it fits in the hand uh rather well . We've got the two uh{vocalsound} uh scroll wheels here which you know one on the the left for the uh volume and the one onthe right for for the channel and uh underneath {vocalsound} we have the uh the turbo button which is inlike a nice uh trigger position for you know for pressing quite naturally .Project Manager: What's the useuh of the t turbo button already ?User Interface: This is when you when you uh are scrolling the uh{disfmarker} through the channels you can tell it to to skip th past channels that you {disfmarker}quickly rather thProject Manager: Ah yeah yeah an then you stop when you stop it stops .User Interface:Yeah . Well when you stop scrolling the wheel it stops . But normally with uh {disfmarker} it will just uh sstay on each station briefly so you can see the the picture .Industrial Designer: Uh {disfmarker}ProjectManager: Uh-huh .Industrial Designer: And we we do have one more functionality . If you take thebanana as such and uh you press the turbo button , so it switch ons the switch ons the T_V_ .UserInterface: The T_V_ yeah .Project Manager: Which one ?User Interface: The s the turbo button .IndustrialDesigner: The turbo button .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: So rather than having uh an extrabutton for um for the on off switch you just use the turbo button .Industrial Designer: Additional button.Marketing: What this button for ?User Interface: This is a teletext button . So once you press that thenyou get teletextMarketing: Okay .User Interface: and you can use the the channel selector scroll wheel asuh {disfmarker}Project Manager: To navigate it through th through teletext .User Interface: To navigateyeah .Marketing: But if you want to go to page seven hundred ?Industrial Designer: That's right , that'sright .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: {gap} with the wheel it's easy .Marketing: How manUserInterface: Well then you can you you have like a little uh number selection thing , you press the {gap}the the teletext button uh to move between uh the fields and then you can just scroll the number backand forth so you have s you go {disfmarker} you scroll to seven and then zero zero and then you can uh{disfmarker}Marketing: I don't understand it . Can you repeat it ? {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound} Well you can you can press press the teletext buttonIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}UserInterface: and then you then you can you can fIndustrial Designer: So then then both the scroll buttonsthey are for teletext browsing .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: And you can teleMarketing: Ah okay


Grad A: Why ?Grad D: Um .Grad E: I 'm known . I {disfmarker}Grad A: No , cuz she already told me it ,before she told you .Grad E: No , she told me a long time ago . She told me {disfmarker} she told me liketwo weeks ago .Grad A: Oh , well , it doesn't matter what time .Grad B: OK . You know how to toggle thedisplay width {pause} function {disfmarker}Grad A: Well maybe she hadn't just started transcribing meyet .Grad D: Wow .Grad A: Anyway .Grad D: What is it ?Grad E: Let me explain something to you .GradD: Um ,Grad E: My laugh is better than yours .Grad D: there .Grad A: I beg to differ .Grad B: Yo .Grad D:Um , OK .Grad A: But you have to say something genuinely funny before you 'll get an example .Grad E:Yeah .Grad D: The thing is I don't know how to get to the next page . Here .Grad E: No . You should be{disfmarker} at least be self - satisfied enough to laugh at your own jokes .Grad D: Actually I thought{disfmarker}Grad A: No , it 's a different laugh .Grad D: There .Grad A: Ooh , wow !Grad D: How weird.Grad E: Oh ! Holy mackerel .Grad A: Wow . Whoa !Grad D: What ? ! Oh . OK . I wasn't even doinganything . {vocalsound} OK .Grad A: Uh .Grad E: Eva 's got a laptop , she 's trying to show it off .GradD: That was r actually Robert 's idea . But anyhow . UmProfessor F: O K . So , here we are .Grad E: Onceagain .Professor F: Once again , right , together . Um , so we haven't had a meeting for a while , and{disfmarker} and probably won't have one next week , I think a number of people are gone . Um , soRobert , why don't you bring us up to date on where we are with EDU ?Grad B: Um , uh in a {disfmarker}in a smaller group we had uh , talked and decided about continuation of the data collection . So Fey 'stime with us is almost officially over , and she brought us some thirty subjects and , t collected the data ,and ten dialogues have been transcribed and can be looked at . If you 're interested in that , talk to me .Um , and we found another uh , cogsci student who 's interested in playing wizard for us . Here we 'regonna make it a little bit more complicated for the subjects , uh this round . She 's actually suggested tolook um , at the psychology department students , because they have to partake in two experiments inorder to fulfill some requirements . So they have to be subjected , {vocalsound} {comment} before theycan actually graduate . And um , we want to design it so that they really have to think about having sometime , two days , for example , to plan certain things and figure out which can be done at what time , and, um , sort of package the whole thing in a {disfmarker} in a re in a few more complicated um , structure. That 's for the data collection . As for SmartKom , I 'm {disfmarker} the last SmartKom meeting Imentioned that we have some problems with the synthesis , which as of this morning should be resolved. And , so ,Professor F: Good .Grad B: " should be " means they aren't yet , but {disfmarker} but I think Ihave the info now that I need . Plus , Johno and I are meeting tomorrow , so maybe uh uh , whentomorrow is over , we 're done . And ha n hav we 'll never have to look at it again Maybe it 'll take somemore time , to be realistic , but at least we 're {disfmarker} we 're seeing the end of the tunnel there .That was that . Um , the uh , uh I don't think we need to discuss the formalism that 'll be done officially sonce we 're done . Um , something happened , in {disfmarker} on Eva 's side with the PRM that we 'regonna look at today , and um , we have a visitor from Bruchsal from the International University .Andreas , I think you 've met everyone except Nancy .Grad A: Sorry . Hi . Hi .Grad C: Yeah .Grad B: Hi .Hi .Grad A: So when you said " Andreas " I thought you were talking about Stolcke .Grad B: And , um,Grad A: Now I know that we aren't , OK .Grad B: Andy , you actually go by Andy , right ? Oh , OK .GradC: Yeah .Grad B: Eh {disfmarker}Grad C: Cuz there is another Andreas around ,Grad A: Hmm .Grad C:so , to avoid some confusion .Grad B: That will be {pause} Reuter ? Oh , OK .Grad C: Yeah .Grad B: Somy scientific director of the EML is also the dean of the International University , one of his manyoccupations that just contributes to the fact that he is very occupied . And , um , the {disfmarker} um ,he @ @ might tell us a little bit about what he 's actually doing , and why it is s somewhat related , and{disfmarker} by uh using maybe some of the same technologies that we are using . And um . Was thatenough of an update ?Professor F: I think so .Grad B: In what order shall we proceed ?Grad D: OK .GradB: Maybe you have your on - line {disfmarker}Grad D: Uh , yeah , sure . Um , so , I 've be just beenlooking at , um , Ack ! What are you doing ? Yeah . OK . Um , I 've been looking at the PRM stuff . Um ,so , this is , sort of like the latest thing I have on it , and I sorta constructed a couple of classes . Like , a


Lynne Neagle AM: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and EducationCommittee. We've received apologies for absence from Michelle Brown and Jack Sargeant; there are nosubstitutions. Can I ask if Members have any declarations of interest, please? No. Okay. We'll move on,then, to item 2, which is our scrutiny of the 'Healthy Weight: Healthy Wales' draft strategy, and I'm verypleased to welcome Dr Frank Atherton, the Chief Medical Officer for Wales, and Nathan Cook, who is thehead of the healthy and active branch at Welsh Government. Thank you, both, for attending thismorning. We're very much looking forward to hearing what you've got to say. If you're happy, we'll gostraight into questions. If I can just start by asking about the fact that 'Healthy Weight: Healthy Wales' isan all-age strategy, really, and how confident you are that it will deliver for children and young people.DrFrank Atherton: Well, we're very confident. I mean, it has to, quite clearly. We do need to think about thepresent generation, the problems faced by the current generation. We have high prevalence ofoverweight and obesity among adults—we know that, and we can't walk away from that because that'stranslating into demand on health services. But we have to take a focus, a future generation's focus,almost, on the next generation. I don't write off the current generation, we can't afford to do that, but wedo need to think about what can we do that would be different for the next generation so that they don'tget into the sorts of problems that we're currently seeing with overweight and obesity. We know that theconsequences of that for our young people are going to be enormous if we don't do something andsomething quite soon. We know that overweight children go on to become overweight adults,unfortunately, and that brings all the consequences of multiple disease issues—diabetes is oftencited—cancer risk et cetera. So, we have to focus on children, and, in fact, during the consultation, we'vebeen very clear that we need to engage with children and young people as well. Perhaps we'll get intothat at some point, Chair, but, yes, I can give you that assurance.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you.What my follow-up question, really, is: can you just tell us what kind of engagement you've had withchildren and young people to inform the draft strategy?Dr Frank Atherton: Well, Nathan may be able toinfluence some of the detail, but in broad terms, we have discussed with young people in a number offora. In fact, I was delighted that we had a young person, Evie Morgan, a schoolgirl from mid Wales, whocame to the joint launch on the consultation. She met the Minister there and gave a very good personalaccount of her views on obesity and overweight. We've been visiting a number of schools during theconsultation process. I'm visiting a school, either this week or next week, at Treorchy, to talk withteachers and young people there. Obviously, we're hopeful that schools and young people will contributeto the consultation as well. So, we've had quite good input, I would say, from children and young people.There is always more we can do we and we want to hear those voices.Nathan Cook: I was going to say,we've also had a session with youth ambassadors as well, and what we've actually produced for theconsultation is not just the children and young people's version, but also a toolkit in terms of gettingschools really engaged and involved in terms of the work that we want them to do to feed into this aswell. So, we've already had some really good responses from a lot of youth group and schoolsalready.Lynne Neagle AM: And you've got a structured programme, have you, to roll that out? Okay.Thank you. We've got some questions now on leadership, and the first questions are from SiânGwenllian.Sian Gwenllian AM: Good morning. I'll be speaking in Welsh. The Minister for health saidyesterday, in answering a question from me on the Chamber floor, that you gave him advice not to havea target in terms of reducing obesity among children. Could you confirm that that's what your advice wasand tell us why you don't think that a target is needed?Dr Frank Atherton: My advice was not that wedon't need a target—we may well need a target, and that's one of the issues we need to consult on—butthat the target that had been adopted in England and in Scotland to halve the prevalence of obesity inchildren was more aspirational than deliverable, and that if we are to choose a target in Wales, then weneed to balance deliverability with challenge. We need a challenging environment. So, there is somethingabout performance management, because I would be looking to not just the health system but the healthand care system and to public services boards to think about how they're delivering on this, and I think


Professor B: OK So uh today we 're looking at a number of uh things we 're trying and uh fortunately forlisteners to this uh we lost some of it 's visual but um got tables in front of us . Um what is {disfmarker}what does combo mean ?PhD C: So combo is um a system where we have these features that go througha network and then this same string of features but low - pass filtered with the low - pass filter used inthe MSG features . And so these low - pass filtered goes through M eh {disfmarker} another MLP andthen the linear output of these two MLP 's are combined just by adding the values and then there is thisKLT . Um the output is used as uh features as well .Professor B: Um so let me try to restate this and seeif I have it right . There is uh {disfmarker} there is the features uh there 's the OGI features and then umthose features um go through a contextual {disfmarker} uh l l let 's take this bottom arr one pointed toby the bottom arrow . Um those features go through a contextualized KLT . Then these features also uhget um low - pass filteredPhD C: Yeah . Yeah so yeah I could perhaps draw this on theblackboardProfessor B: Sure . Yeah . Yeah .PhD C: Yeah .PhD D: The graph , yeah another one .ProfessorB: Yeah , that 's good .PhD C: Professor B: SoPhD C: So we have these features from OGI that goesthrough the three paths .Professor B: Yeah . Three , OK .PhD C: The first is a KLT using several frames ofthe features .Professor B: Yeah . Yeah .PhD C: The second path is uh MLP also using nine frames{disfmarker} several frames of featuresProfessor B: Yeah . Uh - huh .PhD C: The third path is this low -pass filter .Professor B: Uh - huh .PhD C: Uh , MLPProfessor B: Aha ! aha !PhD C: Adding the outputs justlike in the second propose the {disfmarker} the proposal from {disfmarker} for the first evaluation.Professor B: Yeah ? Yeah . Yeah .PhD C: And then the KLT and then the two together again .Professor B:No , the KLT . And those two together . That 's it .PhD D: Two HTK .Professor B: OK so that 's{disfmarker} that 's this bottom one .PhD C: Um . So this is {disfmarker} yeahProfessor B: And so uhand then the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the one at the top {disfmarker} and I presume these thingsthat uh are in yellow are in yellow because overall they 're the best ?PhD C: Yeah that 's the reason ,yeah .Professor B: Oh let 's focus on them then so what 's the block diagram for the one above it ?PhD C:For the f the f first yellow line you mean ?Professor B: Yeah .PhD C: Yeah so it 's uh basically s the sameexcept that we don't have this uh low - pass filtering so we have only two streams .PhD D: Step .PhD C:Well . There 's {disfmarker} there 's no low {disfmarker} low - pass processing used as additional featurestream .Professor B: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .PhD C: UmProfessor B: Do you e um they mentioned{disfmarker} made some {disfmarker} uh when I was on the phone with Sunil they {disfmarker} theymentioned some weighting scheme that was used to evaluate all of these numbers .PhD C: Yeah . Uhactually the way things seems to um well it 's uh forty percent for TI - digit , sixty for all the SpeechDat -Cars , well all these languages . Ehm the well match is forty , medium thirty five and high mismatchtwenty - five . Yeah .Professor B: Um and we don't have the TI - digits part yet ?PhD C: Uh , no.Professor B: OK .PhD C: But yeah . Generally what you observe with TI - digits is that the result are veryclose whatever the {disfmarker} the system .Professor B: OK . And so have you put all these numberstogether into a single number representing that ?PhD C: Yeah .Professor B: I mean not {disfmarker}PhDC: Uh not yet .Professor B: OK so that should be pretty easy to do and that would be good{disfmarker}PhD C: No . Mmm yeah , yeah .Professor B: then we could compare the two and say whatwas better .PhD C: Mmm . Yeah .Professor B: Um and how does this compare to the numbers{disfmarker} oh so OGI two is just the top {disfmarker} top row ?PhD D: Yeah .PhD C: So yeah to{disfmarker} actually OGI two is the {disfmarker} the baseline with the OGI features but this is notexactly the result that they have because they 've {disfmarker} they 're still made some changes in thefeaturesProfessor B: OK .PhD C: and {disfmarker} well but uh actually our results are better than theirresults . Um I don't know by how much because they did not send us the new resultsProfessor B: OK.PhD C: UhProfessor B: Uh OK so the one {disfmarker} one place where it looks like we 're messingthings up a bit is in the highly mismatched Italian .PhD C: Yeah . Yeah .Professor B: AnPhD C: Yeah thereis something funny happening here because {disfmarker} yeah .Professor B: Yeah .PhD C: But there arethirty - six and then sometimes we are {disfmarker} we are {disfmarker} we are around forty - two


Project Manager: Okay . Uh good afternoon . This is our third meeting already .Marketing: Goodafternoon .Project Manager: I hope you enjoyed your lunch . {vocalsound} I did anyway . {vocalsound}Um let's see . Presentation three . Okay this is um the second phase uh we're going to discuss today . It'sthe conceptual design meeting . And a few points of interest in this meeting um are the conceptualspecification of components . Uh conceptual specification of design . And also trend-watching . Um theseare hopefully the points you addressed in uh your pre uh presentations you're going to show me in a fewminutes . Um but first I'll show you the agenda . Uh first the opening . Then we have three presentations. Uh after that we have to come to a decision on remote control concepts . How we're going to make it .And then we're closing . We have about forty minutes . Uh so I suggest let's get started . Uh did someoneencounter any problems during the preparation ? No ?User Interface: No .Project Manager: Everythingfine ?Marketing: {gap}Project Manager: That's nice . Then a little uh thing about the last meeting . Uhthese are the points um we agreed on . The requirements and the target market . Uh requirements areuh teletext , docking station , audio signal , small screen , with some extras that uh button information .And we are going to use default materials . Um does somebody have any comments on theserequirements ? Maybe ? No ? These are just the the things we thought of , so maybe if you figuredsomething else or thought of something else , just let me know . And maybe we can uh work it out . Andwe're going to target uh sixty to to eighty year old customers . So now everybody knows what we're dowe're doing , um I suggest let's get started with the presentations . So shall we keep the same uh line-upas uh last time ?Marketing: Sure .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: I'll start off then .Project Manager:Good luck . {vocalsound}Marketing: Doh . 'Kay I'm uh gonna inform you about the trend-watching I'vedone over the past few days . Um we've done some market research . We distributed some moreenquetes , questionnaires . And um besides that um I deployed some trend-watchers to Milan and Paristo well get all of the newest trends . And I've consulted some additional trend-watch trend-watchers ,after the original trend-watchers return , about what the the best design would be . Um okay these aresome overall findings . Um most important thing is the fancy design . Um the research indicated that thatwas by far the most important factor . Um innovativeness was about half as important as the fancydesign . By innovativeness this means um functions which are not featured in other remote controls . Umabout half of , half as important as the innovativeness was the was easy to use . Um for our um group ,we're focusing on the people of sixty to eighty y years old , this is um , these factors are slightly moreequal . 'Kay these are some more group specific findings . Uh the older people prefer dark colours . Uhthey like recognisable shapes , and familiar material . And our surveys have indicated that especiallywood is pretty much the material for older people . Um this is , this image will give you a little bit of animpression about um the look-and-feel that um the remote should have . Um this leads us to somepersonal preferences . Uh the remote control and the docking station should uh blend in in the in theroom . Um so this would mean no uh eye-catching designs . Just keep it simple and {disfmarker} Wellthe docking station and small screen would be our main points of interest , because this would be the{disfmarker} These would uh be the innovativeness in the remote control . So this would be veryimportant that we {vocalsound} at least include these features . Um well the trend-watchers I consultedadvised that it b should be , the remote control and the docking station should be telephone-shaped . Soyou could imagine that uh the remote control will be standing up straight in the docking station . This isnot really {disfmarker} This is pretty much a new shape to uh older people . So they would prefer uh adesign where the remote control just lies flat in the docking station . So it would be kinda moretelephone-shaped . Um besides that we would advise um to bring two editions , one with a wood-likecolour and maybe feel , and one with a grey-black colour . The wood-like for the more uh exclusivepeople . People with more money . Uh the grey-black colour for well people with less means . That wouldbe all .Project Manager: Okay . Thank you . Any questions about the the trends ?Marketing: Anyquestions ?Project Manager: MaybUser Interface: Mm no .Project Manager: No ? Okay , we go on to thenext one .User Interface: {gap}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Um {vocalsound} 'kay um


PhD A: OK , we 're going .PhD D: Damn .Professor C: And uh Hans - uh , Hans - Guenter will be here ,um , I think by next {disfmarker} next Tuesday or so .PhD B: Oh , OK .PhD D: Mm - hmm .Professor C:So he 's {disfmarker} he 's going to be here for about three weeks ,PhD B: Oh ! That 's nice .PhD A: Justfor a visit ?Professor C: and , uh {disfmarker} Uh , we 'll see .PhD A: Huh .Professor C: We might{disfmarker} might end up with some longer collaboration or something .PhD A: Cool .Professor C: So he's gonna look in on everything we 're doingPhD D: Mm - hmm .Professor C: and give us his {disfmarker}his thoughts . And so it 'll be another {disfmarker} another good person looking at things .PhD B: Oh .Hmm .Grad E: Th - that 's his spectral subtraction group ?Professor C: Yeah ,Grad E: Is that right?Professor C: yeah .Grad E: Oh , OK . So I guess I should probably talk to him a bit too ?Professor C: Oh, yeah . Yeah . Yeah . No , he 'll be around for three weeks . He 's , uh , um , very , very , easygoing ,easy to talk to , and , uh , very interested in everything .PhD A: Really nice guy .Professor C: Yeah , yeah.PhD B: Yeah , we met him in Amsterdam .Professor C: Yeah , yeah , he 's been here before .PhD B: Oh ,OK .Professor C: I mean , he 's {disfmarker} he 's {disfmarker} he 's {disfmarker} he 's{disfmarker}PhD A: Wh - Back when I was a grad student he was here for a , uh , uh {disfmarker} ayear or {comment} n six months .PhD B: I haven't noticed him .Professor C: N nine months .PhD A:Something like that .Professor C: Something like that .PhD A: Yeah .Professor C: Yeah . Yeah . He 's{disfmarker} he 's done a couple stays here .PhD B: Hmm .Professor C: Yeah .PhD A: So , um ,{vocalsound} {comment} I guess we got lots to catch up on . And we haven't met for a couple of weeks .We didn't meet last week , Morgan . Um , I went around and talked to everybody , and it seemed likethey {disfmarker} they had some new results but rather than them coming up and telling me I figuredwe should just wait a week and they can tell both {disfmarker} you know , all of us . So , um , why don'twe {disfmarker} why don't we start with you , Dave , and then , um , we can go on .Grad E: Oh , OK.PhD A: So .Grad E: So , um , since we 're looking at putting this , um {disfmarker} mean log mmagnitude spectral subtraction , um , into the SmartKom system , I I did a test seeing if , um , it wouldwork using past only {comment} and plus the present to calculate the mean . So , I did a test , um ,{vocalsound} where I used twelve seconds from the past and the present frame to , um , calculate themean . And {disfmarker}PhD A: Twelve seconds {disfmarker} Twelve {disfmarker} twelve seconds backfrom the current {pause} frame , is that what you mean ?Grad E: Uh {disfmarker} Twelve seconds , um ,counting back from the end of the current frame ,PhD A: OK , OK .Grad E: yeah . So it was , um , twen Ithink it was twenty - one frames and that worked out to about twelve seconds .PhD A: Mm - hmm .GradE: And compared to , um , do using a twelve second centered window , I think there was a drop inperformance but it was just a slight drop .PhD A: Hmm !Professor C: Mm - hmm .Grad E: Is {disfmarker}is that right ?Professor C: Um , yeah , I mean , it was pretty {disfmarker} it was pretty tiny . Yeah .GradE: Uh - huh . So that was encouraging . And , um , that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} um , that 'sencouraging for {disfmarker} for the idea of using it in an interactive system like And , um , anotherissue I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm thinking about is in the SmartKom system . So say twe twelve seconds inthe earlier test seemed like a good length of time , but what happens if you have less than twelveseconds ? And , um {disfmarker} So I w bef before , um {disfmarker} Back in May , I did someexperiments using , say , two seconds , or four seconds , or six seconds . In those I trained the modelsusing mean subtraction with the means calculated over two seconds , or four seconds , or six seconds .And , um , here , I was curious , what if I trained the models using twelve seconds but I f I gave it asituation where the test set I was {disfmarker} subtracted using two seconds , or four seconds , or sixseconds . And , um {disfmarker} So I did that for about three different conditions . And , um{disfmarker} I mean , I th I think it was , um , four se I think {disfmarker} I think it was , um ,something like four seconds and , um , six seconds , and eight seconds . Something like that . And itseems like it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it hurts compared to if you actually train the models{comment} using th that same length of time but it {disfmarker} it doesn't hurt that much . Um , uusually less than point five percent , although I think I did see one where it was a point eight percent or


Project Manager: Um we are {disfmarker} So the meeting will have about the same format as the lasttime . So {gap} switching over I've just left uh my first two screens {gap} .User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Um {vocalsound} mailed you the minutes of the last meeting uh just to save time.User Interface: Okay . Cool .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um and is there any questions you havethat arised from last meeting that are particularly bothering you ? NUser Interface: Mm um . No , I don'tthink so .Project Manager: No ? Okay , cool .Industrial Designer: No .Project Manager: Then we shallstart with a presentation from Raj .Marketing: Yeah . {vocalsound} Hi , me Raj , again . Uh in thismeeting I I'm going to discuss about the trend watching , uh how these trends is going to affect ourmarket potential and how important is this . So we have to look on this . First of all methodology . Themet methodology to find out the trend was incl uh was done in a way {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Wehave done a rec not only a recent remote control market survey , but we also considered the latest frefashion trends of the market , because we think that this is also a factor which will affect our sales andprofit . So what are our findings ? In our {vocalsound} uh in our findings we have seen that {disfmarker}when we did our remote control market survey we found that uh people l uh people do have preferencefor tho fancy mobi uh f remote controls which look and feel very good , rather than having a functionallook and feel uh good . So this sh this clearly indicates their preference for the design their outlook of theremote controls . So we should take into uh we should consider this factor as the most important factor ,because this factor is twice as important , the second factor which is further ti twice the as important asthe sec as uh the third factor . So this factor becomes the most important factor in our surv uh uh in ourmark uh means in take {disfmarker} in designing our rem uh remote controls .User Interface: The lastone is the most important one , is it ?Marketing: No the first one is theUser Interface: Oh , sorry.Marketing: uh the outlook of the mobile , the it should have a fancy outlook ,Project Manager:{gap}User Interface: Okay .Marketing: the fancy design uh rather than just having a functional look andfeel good , it should have a fancy look and foo feel good .User Interface: Okay .Marketing: The secondmost important aspect is that remote control should be a technologically uh innovative . We must havesome technological advancement in the remote control tha rather than just putting it as it is as the otherremo uh remote controls are . So it uh should be technologically innovative like glow-in-the-dark orspeech recognition , something like that .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: So that indicates ourtechnological advancement . And the third most important aspect in the ta to take into consideration isthat it should be easy to use ,User Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: like it shouldn't be too much cocomplicated ,User Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: there shouldn't be too many buttons on this mobi uhremote control , it shouldn't be too complicated uh like this way . And it should be uh {disfmarker} andcustomers should be provided with manuals that is easy to understand in their local language , something. So that they could know how to use these remote controls . When we did uh f fashions uh , recentfashion uh {disfmarker} our recent fashion update shows that {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Sorry .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Ah yeah ? {vocalsound}User Interface: I was justreading fruit and vegetables .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Hard to know how we aregoing to incorporate that . {vocalsound}Marketing: Y yeah uh yeah , we have to , because uh d you cansee how people have related their clothes , shoes , {gap} and everything with fruits and vegetables,Project Manager: {gap}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: because the g world is now changing it'strend towards organic , becoming more and more organic ,User Interface: Okay . Yeah .IndustrialDesigner: We should make a big sponge lemon ,Marketing: becoming {disfmarker}{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and then it'd be it would be yellow .Marketing: Yeah .{vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: It's{disfmarker}Marketing: So {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: Th that's very good .IndustrialDesigner: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah . So something like that we we should do .User Interface:Glow-in-the-dark . Okay .Marketing: And people uh the f feel of the material is expected to be spongyrather than just having a plastic look , hard look .Industrial Designer: Mm . {vocalsound}User Interface:


Project Manager: Okay . Uh first of all I'll start with the costs ,Marketing: {gap} .Project Manager:because that's going to influence our design .User Interface: {vocalsound} Oh no .Marketing: Oh , {gap}. {vocalsound}Project Manager: If you {disfmarker} Don't know if you al already had a look or not ?UserInterface: No n I I already did it .Industrial Designer: Did you do your questionnaire already ?Marketing:No .User Interface: It's not much . It's just one question .Project Manager: Because we have a problem.Industrial Designer: Uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Oh . {vocalsound}Project Manager: If you look closely ,you can see .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: It wants {disfmarker}Project Manager: Um Ialready took the liberty to make some suggestions . {gap} . {gap} . {vocalsound} At the moment wehave fifteen buttons , one L_C_D_ screen , one advanced chip-on-print . We use a uh sensor , that's forthe speech . Uh we use kinetic energy . And we wanted uh the buttons in a special colour . Okay . What'sthe first thing we should drop ? The special colour of the buttons ?User Interface: No that's that's for thetrendy uh feel and look . So {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay . Uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer:Yeah but everything is .Project Manager: Should we switch to a hand dynamo ?User Interface:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh that's the still the same idea as the kinetic energy because you have touse it and do things .Marketing: No .User Interface: Yeah , b but {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah but youngpeople like that .Project Manager: Batteries ?Marketing: So just do normal battery .Project Manager:Batteries .User Interface: I think the battery option .Industrial Designer: Just a normal battery then ,yeah .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: {gap} .Marketing: It has to be twelve and a half .ProjectManager: Yeah .Marketing: Or not ? {vocalsound}User Interface: Oh . {vocalsound}Project Manager: So{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Oh my goodness .Project Manager: You're going to redesign something.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Oh no .Project Manager: Okay , so we're at twenty five.Marketing: Uh , yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um {disfmarker} Do we keep theshape doubly curved or g do we go for single curved ?Industrial Designer: Well I guess i we'll have to gofor single curve then . I mean we have to drop on everything .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}Uh {disfmarker}Marketing: But we can keep it single curved with uh top view still curved , but from theside it's it's flat ,Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: and the screen screen is just {disfmarker} Wellyou just have to hold it like this then . So {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah . Um{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: How about {disfmarker} Sorry .Project Manager: Uh another option Isaw was to drop the buttons one through nine , so you can't directly access a channel , but instead useonly the up and down arrows . That would skip nine buttons and four and a half Euros .IndustrialDesigner: That's what I was thinking .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Alright .Project Manager: Yeah?Industrial Designer: A aMarketing: Let's do it then . Yeah .Project Manager: Uh then we have left{disfmarker}User Interface: But we don't have any basic options any more .Marketing: {gap} we{disfmarker} {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh yeah . We do .Industrial Designer: And uh 'cause thenthey don't have to n They don't need special colour as well .Marketing: F_ eight .Project Manager: Theydon't need special colours . Fine . That's more like it .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .User Interface:{vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} You were saying something .Industrial Designer: That wasexactly my point . Like let's drop all the buttons , and just make oneProject Manager: Yeah .IndustrialDesigner: {disfmarker} I mean we're gonna use the L_C_D_ screen anyway . So we'll just have to use itfor everything .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Yeah .Industrial Designer: And then you can make anoverview of channels in the screen , and select a channel , click {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah ,some more menu options . Yeah . Okay so maybe we can drop few more buttons .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Project Manager: But um {disfmarker} Now let's look .User Interface: Yeah we c could{disfmarker} We only need the the the the the menu arrow arrow button uh thing . Everything you cando with with the menu . So {disfmarker} With the display .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}ProjectManager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Yeah we need one integrated button for everything then .UserInterface: Yeah .Marketing: The joystick .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: Yeah . Kind of . I was {disfmarker} Because {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project


Project Manager: Okay . Oh , that's not gonna work . {vocalsound} Oh , alright . {vocalsound} Okay .Okay . Um alright .Marketing: Uh , uh , um .Project Manager: I'll just put that there . Uh as you all knowwe're here to create a brand new fantastic remote . Uh I'm Nick Debusk , I'm the Project Manager . Uhwe'll just get started with everyone kind of letting each other know who they are and what you're doing ,what your what your role is um . Go ahead .Marketing: Okay . {vocalsound} I am Corinne Whiting and Iwill be the Marketing Expert and in each of the three phases I will have a different role . In the functiondesign phase I will be talking about user requirement specification , and this means what needs anddesires are to be fulfilled , and I'll be doing research to figure this out . In the conceptual design phase Iwill be dealing with trend watching and I'll be doing marketing research on the web . And then finally inthe um detailed design phase I will be doing product evaluation and so I will be collecting therequirements and ranking all the requirements to see how we did .Project Manager: 'Kay .User Interface:Hiya , I'm Ryan . Um I'm the User Interface Designer . Um likewise I've three different roles for eachstage of design . Um the functional design is looking at the tex technical functions of a remote control .Um in the concept design , the user interface , how the user reacts with the the product . And thedetailed design um {vocalsound} sort of like the user interface design , what they might be looking for ,uh things like fashions , what makes wha how we're gonna make it special . That's about it .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound} Right . {vocalsound} I'm Manuel and I'm the Industrial Designer in in thisproject um . In the functional design phase I'm {disfmarker} I'll be dealing mostly with the requirements, um we'll discuss what the prog what functions the the product has to fulfil and so and so on . Um Isuppose we'll work pretty much together on that one . Um um in the conceptual design um I'll be promostly dealing with properties and materials um of our product .User Interface: Yeah .IndustrialDesigner: And uh the detailed design {disfmarker} in the detailed design I'll be concerned with the lookand feel of the product itself , um so we're pretty much working together obviously on the design fronthere . Okay . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay . Um so we've got our opening , our our agenda is theopening , uh acquaintance which we've kinda done . Uh tool training , project plan discussion and thenclosing .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh grand total of twentyfive minutes we have here . Um so we are putting together a new remote control . Um we want it to besomething original . Um of course we're a {disfmarker} not only a electronics company but a fashion umconscious electronics company , so we want it to be trendy um and we want it to be easy to use .{vocalsound} Um we've got the functional design , conceptual design and detailed design um whichbasically is is the three of you um . And w uh {vocalsound} well um functional design um . Um do wehave {disfmarker} um any ideas of of {disfmarker} {vocalsound} maybe d let's just throw out someideas of what kind of remote control we want to have , and then we can go into how we're gonna designit and and how we're gonna do the detailing on it .User Interface: Yeah . Well uh s function of remotecontrol is just just {disfmarker} you know , change channels is its main function .Project Manager: So wewant it to be um a T_V_ remote or {disfmarker} I I mean do we want it to to do other things besides justbe a a television remote ?User Interface: Oh right . I suppose you c try make it a universal remoteProjectManager: 'Kay .User Interface: for {disfmarker} could work on all sort of electrical products in in oneperson's house . But , you know , they all sorta have the same role changing channels , volumes and thenprogramming .Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm-hmm . 'Kay.Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: I think they all work on the same prin principle as well sortalike {disfmarker} I don't actually know . {gap} But is it just infra-red ? Is that standard ?ProjectManager: I I think {disfmarker} yeah , yeah , r universal remote .User Interface: Ye yeah .ProjectManager: Um this is my first uh go-round with creating a remote control ,Marketing: Huh .{vocalsound}Project Manager: so {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Ours too . {vocalsound}UserInterface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} I think we're all in the same boat here .{vocalsound} Um {disfmarker}User Interface: Um one thing I thought of with the remote control is youalways lose 'em .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: So if there's a g a way of finding it quite easily ,


Gareth Rogers: Good morning, and welcome to today's meeting of the Children, Young People andEducation Committee. Unfortunately, the Chair is unable to attend today, so in accordance with StandingOrder 17.22 I call for nominations for a temporary Chair for the duration of today's meeting.Julie MorganAM: I nominate John Griffiths.Gareth Rogers: Thank you.Darren Millar AM: I'll second thatnomination.Gareth Rogers: As there's only one nomination, I declare that John Griffiths has beenappointed as temporary Chair. Thank you, John.John Griffiths AM: Okay. Thank you all very much, anditem 1 on our agenda today is introductions, apologies, substitutions and declarations of interest. We'vereceived apologies from Hefin David and Lynne Neagle. There are no substitutions. Are there anydeclarations of interest? No. We will move on then to item 2, and our inquiry into the impact of Brexit onhigher and further education, and our first evidence session. I'm very pleased to welcome the HigherEducation Funding Council for Wales here today, and Dr David Blaney as chief executive, and BethanOwen, director of institutional engagement. Welcome to you both. Thanks for coming along to giveevidence today. If it's okay with you, we'll move straight to questions, and Julie Morgan.Julie Morgan AM:Good morning. Bore da. I wondered if we could start off with you telling us what evidence you can seethat the Brexit process has had any impact on Welsh higher education so far.Dr David Blaney: Can Ipreface the response by just reminding you that we are, by contract and by role, apolitical, and a lot ofthe judgments about the impact of Brexit essentially reflect where people sit politically in terms ofwhether they think it's a good thing or a bad thing? We're not going to go there, obviously, today, so we'llstick to the facts as we can see them, and hopefully we'll be able to help you, but there are areas wherewe are unable to help. That's part of the reason.John Griffiths AM: We certainly do not expect you toenter the political fray in any way.Dr David Blaney: Thank you. But even in terms of your assessment ofwhether this is going to be a good thing or a bad thing, a good impact or a bad impact, some of thatinevitably in the end becomes a matter of your politics on it, so we will be as careful as we can be onthat. In terms of the impact of Brexit on higher education, clearly, the significance here is about thecontribution that higher education can make to Wales. So, we fund provision; we don't fund providers,technically, although obviously there's not much provision without providers. So, we are interested in thesustainability of higher education providers, but fundamentally the issue is: what does the HE system inWales do for Wales, and what impact might Brexit have on the capacity of the system to continue todeliver for Wales? So, we know that universities make annually about £5 billion of impact; 50,000 jobs.Of course, in Wales, all of that economic impact is really very significant, and uncertainty about therelationships and the arrangements with Europe is one of the most significant issues confrontinguniversity management at the moment. That has an impact in a number of ways. We can identify at themoment the extent to which the HE sector in Wales is exposed to sources of income that are located fromthe EU, so EU students, structural funds, and EU research funding, and so on, from the EU. We canidentify some of that, but, actually, what happens in the future is much harder to be clear about. We arebeginning to see some impact in terms of applications from EU students and I'll ask Bethan to share somedetails on that in a moment. We're also beginning to pick up, only anecdotally, some signs that there areincreasing difficulties in the UK sector, and the Welsh sector as part of that, in playing in some of the EUcollaborative research activities. And that, I think, just reflects the extent to which EU partners considerthat British partners might be a stable partner as we go through this transition period. We don't havedata on that—that's anecdotal—but there are signs that some of those relationships are beginning tobecome a little bit more difficult. In terms of the financial impact of that, clearly, if it is accepted that theUK is a net contributor to the EU then, presumably, some of the money—we're almost immediatelystraight into politics if you're not careful—but some of the money will be available back to the UK, and theextent to which Wales benefits or not from that returned money is a function of the political relationshipbetween the Welsh Government and Her Majesty's Government. It's not necessarily the case that Waleswill always lose out in that relationship, but that will become a matter of politics. There's a broaderdimension, which is about the economic impact of Brexit on the UK economy and how much tax revenue


Grad B: what things to talk about .Grad F: I 'm {disfmarker} What ? Really ? Oh , that 's horrible !Disincentive !Grad A: OK , we 're recording .Grad F: Hello ?Grad B: Check check {pause} check check.Grad D: Uh , yeah .Grad F: Hello ? Which am I ?Professor C: Oh right .Grad B: Alright . Good .Grad F:Channel fi OK . OK . Are you doing something ? OK , then I guess I 'm doing something . So , um , Sobasically the result of m much thinking since the last time we met , um , but not as much writing , um , isa sheet that I have a lot of , like , thoughts and justification of comments on but I 'll just pass out as isright now . So , um , here . If you could pass this around ? And there 's two things . And so one on oneside is {disfmarker} on one side is a sort of the revised sort of updated semantic specification .Grad D:Um {disfmarker} The {disfmarker} wait .Grad F: And the other side is , um , sort of a revisedconstruction formalism .Grad E: This is just one sheet , right ?Grad D: Ah ! Just one sheet .Grad F: It 'sjust one sheet .Grad D: OK .Grad F: It 's just a {disfmarker} Nothing else .Grad D: Front , back .Grad F:Um , Enough to go around ? OK . And in some ways it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's very similarto {disfmarker} There are very few changes in some ways from what we 've , um , uh , b done before butI don't think everyone here has seen all of this . So , uh , I 'm not sure where to begin . Um , as usual thedisclaimers are there are {disfmarker} all these things are {disfmarker} it 's only slightly more stablethan it was before .Grad E: Mm - hmm .Grad F: And , um , after a little bit more discussion and especiallylike Keith and I {disfmarker} I have more linguistic things to settle in the next few days , um , it 'llprobably change again some more .Grad E: Yeah .Grad F: Um , maybe I will {disfmarker} let 's start b let's start on number two actually on the notation , um , because that 's , I 'm thinking , possibly a littlemore familiar to , um {disfmarker} to people . OK , so the top block is just sort of a {disfmarker} sort ofabstract nota it 's sort of like , um , listings of the kinds of things that we can have . And certain thingsthat have , um , changed , have changed back to this . There {disfmarker} there 's been a little bit of ,um , going back and forth . But basically obviously all constructions have some kind of name . I forgot toinclude that you could have a type included in this line .Professor C: What I was gonna {disfmarker}Right .Grad F: So something like , um {disfmarker} Well , there 's an example {disfmarker} the textualexample at the end has clausal construction . So , um , just to show it doesn't have to be beautiful Itcould be , you know , simple old text as well . Um , there are a couple of {disfmarker} Uh , these threehave various ways of doing certain things . So I 'll just try to go through them . So they could all have atype at the beginning . Um , and then they say the key word constructionProfessor C: Oh , I see .Grad F:and they have some name .Professor C: So {disfmarker} so the current syntax is if it s if there 's a type it's before constructGrad F: Yeah , right .Professor C: OK , that 's fine .Grad F: OK , and then it has a blockthat is constituents . And as usual I guess all the constructions her all the examples here have only , um ,tsk {comment} one type of constituent , that is a constructional constituent . I think that 's actuallygonna turn out to m be certainly the most common kind . But in general instead of the word " construct ", th here you might have " meaning " or " form " as well . OK ? So if there 's some element that doesn't{disfmarker} that isn't yet constructional in the sense that it maps form and meaning . OK , um , themain change with the constructs which {disfmarker} each of which has , um , the key word " construct "and then some name , and then some type specification , is that it 's {disfmarker} it 's pro it 's often{disfmarker} sometimes the case in the first case here that you know what kind of construction it is . Sofor example whatever I have here is gonna be a form of the word " throw " , or it 's gonna be a form ofthe word , you know , I don't know , " happy " , or something like that . Or , you know , some it 'll be aspecific word or maybe you 'll have the type . You 'll say " I need a p uh spatial relation phrase here " or "I need a directional specifier here " . So - uh you could have a j a actual type here . Um , or you couldjust say in the second case that you only know the meaning type . So a very common example of this isthat , you know , in directed motion , the first person to do something should be an agent of some kind ,often a human . Right ? So if I {disfmarker} you know , the um , uh , run down the street then I{disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I run down the street , it 's typed , uh , " I " , meaning category is what 'sthere . The {disfmarker} the new kind is this one that is sort of a pair and , um , sort of skipping fonts


Project Manager: Okay , good morning . This is our first team meeting .User Interface: Good day.Marketing: Morning .Industrial Designer: Morning .Project Manager: I'll be your Project Manager fortoday , for this project . My name is Mark {gap} will be giving this presentation for you to kick the projectoff . {vocalsound} That's my uh that's the agenda for today . Well , of course we're new to each other ,so I'd like to get acquainted first . So let's do that first , I mean {disfmarker} Let's start with you , canyou introduce yourself ? You're our Marketing Expert .Marketing: Yes . {vocalsound} Um my name is Dirk, Dirk Meinfeld . Um I will be uh {gap} Pr Project {disfmarker} the Marketing Expert . And I will see whatthe user wants and uh what we can do uh with the new produ project {disfmarker} product .{vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay , excellent . And you are User Interface {disfmarker}User Interface:Nick Broer ,Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: User Interface Designer . I'm going to uh look at thetechnical design from the uh user point of view .Project Manager: Excellent . Okay .Industrial Designer:My name is Xavier Juergens , I'm the Industrial Designer , and there are three main questions that I haveto find an answer to today . First one is uh what happens inside the apparatus , second is what is uh theapparatus made of ,Marketing: Hmm .Industrial Designer: and the third is what should it look like.Project Manager: What should it look like ? Okay .Marketing: Hmm .Project Manager: Oh , let's kick it off. Oh , there we go . So , our new project is about {disfmarker} we need design a remote control fortelevision set , so , which has to be original , trendy and user-friendly . I took this off our corporatewebsite . {disfmarker} I think well it sums up what we need to do . It's We're inspired by latest fashion ,not only electronics , but also the latest trends in clothes and interior design . That's why our product willalways fit in your home . So apparently we need to {vocalsound} um be very at um very open to what'scurrently hot in the market . So that's what you need to do to bring us the latest info and what peoplewant .Marketing: Yeah . Yeah .Project Manager: So {disfmarker} So we put the fashion in electronics . Sothat's what we need to go for . Anyway , we'll take this project in three steps , three pha uh three phaseof design . First step will be the functional design .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: And that's basicallywhat we're gonna do . Everybody has uh a piece of individual work and a meeting afterwards , so we canshare information about {disfmarker} So I'm gonna keep this short , since we had a technical problem .So skip through this . Uh . Okay . Every meeting we {disfmarker} everybody can present their uh theirviews and everything , so to help with these , you have {disfmarker} we have the SMARTboards here .We can use a regular PowerPoint presentation . I'm supposed to give you an introduction on this doodlingboard , so it's {disfmarker} actually it's very easy . Like it says , very simple , you just take out the pen .Like you see here , I'll just take the {disfmarker} take {gap} here . That's it , you just put it on the board. You see a pen here . You go here , just like using a pen . You can just draw whatever you want . It's likethe eraser , can erase whatever you want . And so it will be easy just to illustrate your views , if youwanna change the format , you just {vocalsound} either take out jus just like the pen , and whatever youwant , your current colour , your line width , just to make the line bigger . So it should be really easy.Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: This is to take the {disfmarker} just take a new slide and back again. We're just gonna keep using this board all the time , so I think it will be {disfmarker} it's very clear foreveryone , I suppose . So I'll take this out . {vocalsound} Okay . We'll use that later . Anyway . Yeah ,just just just stuff that you wanna share , just put it in the in the project folder , like I put mypresentation now . I'll put the the minutes of every meeting , I'll put them there too , so everybody canread up if they have to leave early or whatever . So next , been here . {vocalsound} Well , {gap} gonnagive the electronic white-board uh a shot . So basic idea is we have a blank sheet . Just try whatever youwant , and like it says , draw your favourite animal . I think the creative genius should go first .{vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} The creative genius ?Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Thank you very much .Project Manager: So , drawus your favourite animal .User Interface: {vocalsound} Well , I'm more into the technical aspects ofdrawing ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: so I'm not really good at drawing animals,Project Manager: Draw us a technical animal .User Interface: but uh the animal which I {gap}


Project Manager: Okay . Hi everybody and welcome to our kick-off meeting um for our new product thatwe're gonna be designing . Um I'm Mandy and I'm the Project Manager . And I know all your names again, Courtney , Fenella and Amber .Marketing: Yep .Project Manager: Alright . Okay ,Industrial Designer:Yep .Project Manager: so first let's go through this PowerPoint . I wonder what button I press ?UserInterface: Just do it on the {gap} arrow .Industrial Designer: {gap}Project Manager: Yeah , or how aboutI just click ? Okay , here is our agenda for this meeting . Um we're gonna start with our opening whichwas our introductions . {vocalsound} We're gonna get to know each other a little bit better . Um tooltraining , we're going to , I guess , figure out what to do on this project with our individual roles . Umwe're gonna make a project plan and then have some time for discussion and close up the meeting .Okay , here is our project . We're gonna make a new remote control that's um original , trendy and alsouser-friendly . And how we are going to do it is each of us is going to um {disfmarker} We're gonna have{disfmarker} discuss the functional design first , {vocalsound} how is it gonna be used , what's theactual goal here , it has to operate T_V_ , blah blah blah . And we're going to do individual work on thatand then meet . Same thing with conceptual design . Just the basic overview of the project and thenwe're going to do individual work , meet . That's pretty much the the whole process for today . And thenthe detailed design , just more in-depth , get the actual schematics of the remote . Okay . Alright . Firstwe're gonna start off by using our tools . And the whiteboard thing , do you guys wanna give that a tryeven though the ink wasn't working or do you wanna do it on here .Industrial Designer: I think we shouldforgo the whiteboard since we can't actually see what we're writing .Marketing: We could {disfmarker}Yeah , we could on here .Project Manager: Alright , let's go forward then .User Interface:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Um right now so we're all gonna draw our favourite animal and then sumup our favourite characteristics of that animal . Even if you are not a good drawer like me .User Interface:{vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Alright .Industrial Designer: Artistic skills , nil .UserInterface: Fine .Project Manager: Um .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Oh , thanks. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Bless you .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager:{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I draw like I'm in grade five.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Oh do I .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}'Kay , about one more minute . {vocalsound} Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .And who would like to start us off ?Marketing: I'll go .Project Manager: Alright .Marketing: {vocalsound}Um this is my picture . I drew fish {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I like fish , because uh , you know , theirwhole water-vascular system thing .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: It's pretty cool , and umthey've got a pretty good habitat and they are pretty sometimes , sometimes vicious but that's okay.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Only if they're piranhas .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah , they they're easy , you know .Project Manager: Alright .Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Who wants to go next ?Industrial Designer: I'll go .User Interface:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I drew a kitty . It's pretty much impossible to tell that's a cat , but Ilove cats .Marketing: No I I see it .Project Manager: No , it looks like a cat .User Interface: No , I kne Iknew .Marketing: Yeah , it does look like a cat .Industrial Designer: I love cats because they'reindependent , uh they pretty much know what they want , they get it , they move on .{vocalsound}Project Manager: I love cats , too . I'm a cat person .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: I'mallergic to cats .Project Manager: Uh .Industrial Designer: I'm allergic to cats , too . {vocalsound}UserInterface: Ah .Marketing: {vocalsound} Oh , okay . {vocalsound}Project Manager: If you're around one{disfmarker}User Interface: In my next life .Project Manager: I had a roommate who was um allergic ,but if she was around my cat forever she became used to it , you know ,Marketing: Yeah , yeah , if you'rearound them for a long period of time {disfmarker}Project Manager: it's weird . Okay .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I still can't sleep with them in my room .Marketing: Oh , yeah , thissummer I , oh I had to live with cats . It was crazy .Project Manager: Okay , Fenella ?Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: Um , I drew a badger . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Badger . Good choice .Industrial