Project Manager: {vocalsound} Oh .User Interface: DuProject Manager: Okay . Thanks for coming to this meeting .Marketing: Hm .Project Manager: S how wedoing on our remote ?User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: We have some {disfmarker} we have some ideas and some uh ideas for what people want.User Interface: Uh we yes s I've lo {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: I've done the role that I was asked to do anyway .Project Manager:Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound} I think .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Alright let's just go over the agenda real quick for thismeeting . See if I can't get things uh moving along here a little bit better . Um I'll go over what we went over last time , which shouldn't take long . Then I believeeach of you have a presentation . Um I've was sent a a couple more requirements for our remote , what they want . Um then we can come to a conclusion on uhwhat we want the remote to do , um and how it's going to do it hopefully . And uh then we'll have the closing . {vocalsound} Um which we'll have forty minutesfor . Uh let's see , the last meeting we went over um {vocalsound} who was responsible for what . I'm responsible for leading the meetings , keeping the notes ,uh and coming up with the final presentation . Um Corinne is our Marketing Expert . She's gonna figure out what what um the consumer wants . Um{vocalsound} Ryan is our User Interface Designer . And Manuel is the Industrial Designer . So you're gonna come up with the ideas Ryan , and you're gonna pick'em apart .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um we decided our remote , uh we want it to be a universal remote uh that everyonewould want . Um we want to be modern , um fun , different . Uh it needs to be sturdy , um easy to find , so we gonna have that locator function . Um and wewant to be different . Um and then we went over a couple of different ideas . Ball-shaped phone . The keyboard shape . Um we decided that it should probably beone-handed . Something we could use with one hand . Um and that was our last meeting . So um why don't um {disfmarker} Do each of you have a presentation?Marketing: Yep .Project Manager: Okay . I'll hand it off to you and um {disfmarker} Does anyone {disfmarker} do you wanna go first ?Marketing: Sure .ProjectManager: So we can maybe see what uh what the people want .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: What was it ? Function ?Industrial Designer: Eight .F_ eight .Marketing: F_ eight ? Well . {vocalsound} How do I get it {disfmarker}User Interface: Slide show .Project Manager: To go to the next one ?Marketing:Oh right right right .Project Manager: Yeah you click on that guy .Marketing: That one ?Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Okay . Alright . Well , this is my report, which is going to be based pretty much on a survey that I was sent . Oh gosh , I've no idea . {vocalsound} GUser Interface: Just press the arrow keys I think .Usually goes to it .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Sorry I actually need to see something else on my screen .Project Manager:{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Hit F_ eight again .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: I think .Marketing: And then ? Again ?ProjectManager: Yeah . You want it to be on both screens , or just just yours ?Marketing: No I want something else on mine . Is that possible ?Project Manager: Yeahbut I think you have to hit escape . And then you can {disfmarker} Yeah .Marketing: Okay but now you don't have that .Project Manager: Oh hit F_ eight again.Marketing: {vocalsound} Sorry guys .Project Manager: I know . I did the same thing . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: And then it shouldcome up here shortly . 'Kay .Marketing: {vocalsound} So is there no way I can give you the slideshow andProject Manager: I think {disfmarker} oh give us theslideshow and something on your screen ?Marketing: yeah . Yeah .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: Oh well .Project Manager: I'm not sure . You could maybeminimise that screen and then have them both up at the same time I think .Marketing: Yeah . It's okay . Okay . Um so first of all , the method that I used was bydoing some marketing research ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: by um doing research on some interviews that were conducted . And then someinternet research . And I was sent a report that was {disfmarker} I think there were a hundred remote users that they interviewed . And so I will show you someof the results from that , which I think will be helpful . Um okay here are some of the findings . They said that the users dislike the look and feel of their currentremote controls . And seventy five percent of the users find their remote controls to be ugly . Which is a fairly significant number I would say . And eighty percentof the users would be willing to spend more money if they could get a remote that would look fancy . So I think that earlier we were onto something when wewere talking about having it be a modern cool look , I think that's definitely important . Um they say that current remote controls do not match well the operatingbehaviour of the user . Seventy five percent of users said they zap a lot . And if anyone could clarify what that means ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} JustjusUser Interface: Is is it j just justMarketing: Zap , does that just mean like changing the channel ?User Interface: just using itIndustrial Designer: yeah .UserInterface: yeah .Marketing: Okay . {vocalsound} Um and fifty percent of the users say that they're only using ten percent of the buttons on their remote control .And there was something else , they kept track of the frequency per hour in using certain buttons . And some of them it looks like barely need to be included at all. Of course channel selection is used the most frequently . And then teletext was the next . Volume and then power . And then audio settings and screen settingsand channel settings were practically never used . So I think we could definitely eliminate or somehow combine a lot of the functions into one button . Um thebiggest user frustrations , as we said fifty percent of people find that their remotes are lost somewhere , and so I think a tracking device of some sort would be agood idea . They said it take {disfmarker} thirty four percent said it takes too much time to learn how to use a new remote . And twenty six percent said that thecontrols are bad for R_S_I_ . {vocalsound}User Interface: A repetitive strain injury .Marketing: What is it ?User Interface: Just repetitive strain injury . I think .That's what I guess .Marketing: Okay . Okay . And so bas okay . Um as far as speech recognition goes , um the younger group looks like they're all for it . Fromthe fifteen to twenty five age group over ninety percent said they would pay more . And it kind of just went down incrementally . The groups at {disfmarker} theolder they get it looks like the less willing they are to pay , so maybe we could discuss this and think {disfmarker} and decide if we think it's worth investing inthis . At least if we're targeting the younger groups . And so in conclusion . Some things that I drew from this are that I think we were correct . We definitely needto focus on a new modern appearance , since so many people seem to be concerned about the ugliness of their remote control . Um a multifunctional remotecould be a good thing to explore . So you only have one rather than five different remotes sitting all over your room . Uh we need to simplify the remote andreduce the number of buttons , get rid of the ones that don't seem to be serving much purpose . And then lastly I thought that maybe we could discuss the ideaof speech recognition . And that's it .Project Manager: 'Kay . Very nice . Now we actually have some ideas of what what people want , what we should focus on .Uh {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Wait can I look at that real quick ? {gap} .Marketing: Oh yeah . Sorry did you guys get time to writeeverything that you needed ?User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: 'Kay .User Interface: Having just listened to what Corinne just said , I'll draw on some of the thingsas well . {vocalsound} {gap} Some things that sort of relevant to what I wanna say . 'Kay so I'm just gonna yeah approach the technical functions design . Um{vocalsound} the method I used was to explore the uh technical functions of a remote control .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: And t s simplest approachthat I came to is is to change , programme and operate an electronic device remotely . I mean that's an obvious thing to say , but it's not attached to the devicethat you want to control . Um I had some things sent to me . Not very much . To look at similar devices . Um defined in some them . And then the personalpreferences that I will suggest . Um we discussed a universal one . Um like it's just been brought up again then . But I think a universal remote control is actuallyquite a difficult object to design , and po possibly within maybe the budget that we do it , um because you'd need to know all the spef specifications of a all thelike electronic companies . I'm not sure have you ever come across a universal remote control yourself , but you have to {disfmarker} i they're a nightmare touse . You have to set them , reset them to everything . Um and that would only add buttons . Whereas I think the aim is to take away buttons . So I think it'd bebetter maybe to concentrate on maybe just a universal one for T_V_s . Um or maybe just one that you could we could design and then different people ,manufacturers could use it to set to their specifications , if if the aim is to get something that's unique in design . Um {disfmarker} Okay here here's just twopictures of remote controls . They're just simple T_V_ remote controls . But one is uh user-centred . That is the one on the left . And you can straight away seethere's less buttons . And the other one is {gap} engineer-centred where that's more uh specified for the sort of the elaborate piece of equipment it's trying tocontrol um {disfmarker} {gap} which appeals more to the product that we want , and on what the {gap} have said and the market research and stuff {gap}probably looking at something that should be user-centred . Fewer buttons , simpler to use , and if ten percent um is hidden away {disfmarker} if ten percent iswhat's used , maybe the other fifty percent , the buttons that are used very rarely like programming , they could be hidden maybe under {disfmarker} someremote controls you might have come across have maybe a little flip thi thing where they're hidden away . And the main buttons are the ones you or the ones youcome across . Um and finally , um uh sort I've sort of covered that , our product I think should be user interface orientated . Um {disfmarker} Like I said toconcentrate on T_V_ remote control , a universal remote might be too complex . Um and as what it , the major findings {gap} market researchers have said , it'sthe image and the appearance that people di dislike . So that we should concentrate on something that would set a trend . And that's it .Industrial Designer:{gap} cable there . Thank you .Project Manager: What was your last conclusion on that one ? Focus on uh the iUser Interface: On something on the image of it.Project Manager: the image of it .User Interface: Uh the f the actual design .Project Manager: 'Kay . Good . Good .Industrial Designer: Okay . Gonna talk to you


Grad F: Test .Postdoc G: OK .Professor B: Let 's see , I should be Two .PhD D: Up high {disfmarker}Grad E: As close to your mouth as you can get it .Professor B:LaPhD D: high as you can get .Professor B: Is this channel one ?Postdoc G: Yeah , on your upper lip .PhD H: Channel one one one .Professor B: Gee , OK . Yes .OK .Grad E: OK , so for {disfmarker} for {disfmarker} For people wearing the wireless mikes , like {disfmarker} like this one , I find the easiest way to wear it issorta this {disfmarker} this sorta like that .PhD H: This is {disfmarker} chan channel channel one one two threeGrad F: Channel five , channel five .Professor B:Yeah . Mm - hmm . What do you do ,Grad E: It 's actually a lot more comfortable then if you try to put it over your temples ,Grad F: Test , test test .Professor B:you do it higher ?Grad E: so {disfmarker}Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD D: Adam 's just trying to generate good uh data for the recognizer there .Postdoc G: Yeah, I think we 're supposed to {disfmarker} that 's right .Grad E: And then also , for {disfmarker} for all of them , if your boom is adjustable , the boom should betowards the corner of your mouth ,Grad F: Test test .PhD A: By the way , there was a bug . Yeah , i it wasn't using the properPhD D: Oh it was .Grad E: andabout a uh a thumb to a thumb and a half distance away from your mouth ,PhD A: basically it wasn't adapting anything .PhD D: Oh .Grad E: so about like I 'mwearing it now .PhD D: Oh that 's interesting . So why didn't you get the same results and the unadapted ?Grad E: so so Jane , you could actually do even a littlecloser to your mouth ,PhD H: It 's not always possible .PhD A: Hmm ?PhD D: Why didn't you get the same results and the unadapted ?Postdoc G: I could{disfmarker} can this be adjuste like this ?Grad E: but {disfmarker}PhD A: Oh , because when it estimates the transformer pro produces like a single matrix orsomething .Grad E: Yep .Postdoc G: Is that @ @ ? OK , thank you .Grad F: Adam , I 'm not {disfmarker}PhD D: O Oh oh I see .Grad F: uh , looks kinda low onchannel five {disfmarker}PhD D: I see , I see .Professor B: OK .Grad F: no ?Grad E: Channel five , s speak again .Grad F: Maybe not .Postdoc G: Hello .PhD A:Basically there were no countsGrad E: Yeah , that 's alright .Grad F: Hello ?Grad E: I mean , we could {disfmarker} we could up the gain slightly if you wanted to.Grad F: It 's OK ?PhD H: Yeah .Grad F: Is this OK ?PhD H: OK .PhD D: I see what you mean .PhD C: Who 's channel B ?Grad E: but {disfmarker} Uh , channel Bis probably Liz .PhD C: Uh oh .PhD H: Uh channel B {disfmarker} I am channel B .Professor B: You wanna close this ,Postdoc G: Channel eight , eight .ProfessorB: orPhD C: No IGrad E: Thank you .PhD H: No , channel B .PhD A: Hello , hello .PhD C: yeah , yeah , you 're channel B .PhD H: Yeah , yeah .PhD C: So can youtalk a bit ? I thought it might be tooPhD H: OK , yeah , channel B , one two three four five .PhD C: OK .Grad E: Yeah , it 's alright . So , the gain isn't real good.Professor B: We 're recording ,PhD C: OK .Professor B: right ?Grad E: OK , so we are recording .PhD H: Ah .Professor B: Yeah .PhD A: OK .Grad E: Um everyoneshould have at least two forms possibly three in front of you depending on who you are .Grad F: Oh .Grad E: Um we {disfmarker} we 're doing a new speakerform and you only have to spea fill out the speaker form once but everyone does need to do it . And so that 's the name , sex , email , et cetera .PhD H: Mm -hmm .Grad E: We {disfmarker} we had a lot of discussion about the variety of English and so on so if you don't know what to put just leave it blank . Um I{disfmarker} I designed the form and I don't know what to put for my own region ,PhD A: Mmm .Grad E: soPhD D: California .PhD A: I think {disfmarker}GradE: California .PhD H: California .PhD A: Um may I make one suggestion ? Instead of age put date of {disfmarker} uh year of birthGrad E: Sure .PhD A: becauseage will change , but The year of birth changes , you know , stays the same , usually .Grad E: Oh .PhD C: A actually , wait a minute ,Grad E: Birth year ?PostdocG: Although on {disfmarker}PhD A: Yeah .PhD C: shouldn't it be the other way around ?PhD D: Not for me .Postdoc G: course on the other {disfmarker} on theother hand you could {disfmarker} you view it as the age at the time of the {disfmarker}PhD C: On the other side ,PhD A: Well the thing is , if ten years fromnow you look at this form knowing that {disfmarker}PhD C: yeah .Postdoc G: Yes , but what we care about is the age at {disfmarker} at the recording daterather than the {disfmarker}PhD C: O yeah .PhD D: But there 's no other date on the form .PhD C: W we don't care how they {disfmarker} old they really are.PhD A: Well {disfmarker} well I don't know .Postdoc G: Yes . {vocalsound} Unless we wanna send them a card .Grad E: Well I guess it depends on how long thecorpus is gonna be collected for .PhD A: Anyway .Postdoc G: Yeah , that 's true .PhD C: I still don't see the problem .Grad E: Either way yeah I think {disfmarker}I think age is alrightPhD A: OK .Grad E: and then um there will be attached to this a point or two these forms uh so that you 'll be able to extract the date offthatPhD A: Mm - hmm .Grad E: so , anyway . And so then you also have a digits form which needs to be filled out every time , the speaker form only once , thedigit form every time even if you don't read the digits you have to fill out the digits form so that we know that you were at the meeting . OK ? And then also if youhaven't filled one out already you do have to fill out a consent form . And that should just be one person whose name I don't know . OK ?Grad F: Do you want this{pause} Adam ?Grad E: Uh sure . Thank you .Professor B: So uhGrad E: OK so should we do agenda items ?Professor B: Uh oh that 's a good idea . I shouldn'trun the meeting .Grad E: Uh well I have {disfmarker} I wanna talk about new microphones and wireless stuff .Postdoc G: Mmm .Grad E: And I 'm sure Liz andAndreas wanna talk about recognition results . Anything else ?PhD C: I guess {disfmarker} what time do we have to leave ? Three thirty ?PhD A: Yeah .PhD C:Yeah ,Grad E: Why don't you go first then .PhD C: so .Professor B: Yeah , good idea .PhD A: OK .PhD C: Um Well , I {disfmarker} I sent out an email s couplehours ago so um with Andreas ' help um Andreas put together a sort of no frills recognizer which is uh gender - dependent but like no adaptation , no cross - wordmodels , no trigrams {disfmarker} a bigram recognizer and that 's trained on Switchboard which is telephone conversations . Um and thanks to Don 's help whwho {disfmarker} Don took the first meeting that Jane had transcribed and um {vocalsound} you know separated {disfmarker} used the individual channels wesegmented it in into the segments that Jane had used and uh Don sampled that so {disfmarker} so eight K um and then we ran up to I guess the first twentyminutes , up to synch time of one two zero zero so is that {disfmarker} that 's twenty minutes or so ? Um yeah because I guess there 's some ,Grad E: Or so.PhD C: and Don can talk to Jane about this , there 's some bug in the actual synch time file that ah uh I 'm {disfmarker} we 're not sure where it came from butstuff after that was a little messier . Anyway so it 's twenty minutes and I actuallyGrad E: Hmm .PhD C: umGrad E: I {disfmarker} was that {disfmarker} did that{disfmarker} did that recording have the glitch in the middle ?Postdoc G: I 'm puzzled by that . I {disfmarker} oh {disfmarker} oh , I see .PhD C: There 's{disfmarker} there 's a {disfmarker}Postdoc G: Oh there was a glitch somewhere .PhD C: yeah , so that actually umGrad F: Was it twenty minutes in ,PhD C: if itwas twenty minutes in then I don't knowPostdoc G: I forgot about that .Grad F: I thought {disfmarker}PhD A: Well it was interesting ,Postdoc G: Well , I mean ,they {disfmarker}PhD A: suddenly {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the overall error rate when we first ran it was like eighty percentGrad E: I don't rememberwhen it is .Postdoc G: but I was able to can transcribePhD A: but i looking at {disfmarker} the first sentences looked much better than that and then suddenly itturned very bad and then we noticed that the reference was always one off with the {disfmarker} it was actually recognizedPhD C: WelGrad E: Oh no .Grad F:Yeah , that might be {disfmarker} that might be {disfmarker} that might be my fault .Postdoc G: Wow .PhD A: soGrad E: Oh so that was just a parsing mismatch.Grad F: I 'm not {disfmarker}PhD A: OK .PhD C: No actually it was {disfmarker} yeah i it was a complicated bug because they were sometimes one off and thensometimes totally random so umGrad F: yeah , I was pretty certain that it worked up until that time ,Postdoc G: Oh . That 's not good .PhD C: YeahPhD A: OK.PhD C: so that 's what we haveGrad E: Alright .Grad F: soPhD C: but that {disfmarker} that will be completely gone if this synch time problemPostdoc G: Yeah.Grad E: The {disfmarker} the glitchPhD A: So {disfmarker} so we have everything recognized but we scored only the first uh whatever , up to that timetoPostdoc G: And the only glitch {disfmarker}Grad E: yeah .Postdoc G: yeah .PhD C: So you guys know .Professor B: S sorry I haven't seen the email ,PhD C:Yeah .Grad E: Th - thePostdoc G: The {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} well {disfmarker} waitProfessor B: what was the score ?PhD C: So here 's the actual copy ofthe emailPostdoc G: we should say something about the glitch . He {disfmarker} he can say something about the glitch .PhD C: um oh OKGrad E: yeah .PostdocG: Cuz it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} h it 's {disfmarker} it 's very small {disfmarker}PhD C: so does this glitch occur at other{disfmarker}Grad E: There {disfmarker} there {disfmarker} there 's an acoustic glitch that occurs where um the channels get slightly asynchronizedPostdoc G:very small . Yep .PhD C: Oh .PhD A: Mmm .PhD C: Right .Grad E: so the {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that problem has gone away in the original driver believeit or not when the SSH key gen ran the driver paused for a fraction of a secondProfessor B: Hmm .Grad F: Hmm .Grad E: and so the channels get a littleasynchronous and so if you listen to it in the middle there 's a little part where it starts doing {disfmarker} doing click sounds .Professor B: So {disfmarker}PhDC: And is it only once that that happens ?Grad E: But yeahPhD C: OK .Grad E: it {disfmarker} right once in the middle .PhD C: There 's {disfmarker} the previouspage has some more information about sort of what was wrongProfessor B: so {disfmarker} so un unsurprisingly Adam is the golden voice ,PhD C: butGrad E:Um But that shouldn't affect anythingPhD C: OK so that 's actuallyPostdoc G: S and it {disfmarker}Professor B: you see this here ?PhD C: It {disfmarker} y it 's{disfmarker}Grad E: yeah yeah " bah "PhD C: OK no {disfmarker}PhD A: Oh , and {disfmarker}PhD C: What happens is it actually affects the script that Don{disfmarker}PhD D: Huh .PhD C: I mean if we know about it then I guess it could always be checked for itGrad E: Well the acoustic one shouldn't do anything.PhD C: but theyGrad F: Yeah , I don't know exactly what affected itPostdoc G: I agree . I agree .PhD A: I {disfmarker} I have {disfmarker}Grad F: but I 'll{disfmarker} I 'll talk to you about it ,PhD A: Yeah .Grad E: But I {disfmarker} I do remember {disfmarker}PhD C: Yeah .Grad F: I 'll show you the point .Postdoc


Lynne Neagle AM: Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee. We've received apologies for absence fromJanet Finch-Saunders. I'd like to take this opportunity to welcome Suzy Davies to the committee, and to thank Mark Reckless and Darren Millar, who have left us,for their service and hard work as members of the committee. Can I ask whether there are any declarations of interest, please? No. Okay. We will move on thento our evidence session on our inquiry into the impact of Brexit on higher and further education. I'm very pleased to welcome Kirsty Williams, Cabinet Secretaryfor Education, and Eluned Morgan AM, Minister for Welsh Language and Lifelong Learning. Can I just ask you to introduce your officials for the record,please?Kirsty Williams AM: Bore da, Lynne, and thank you for the invitation to join you. Eluned and I are joined this morning by Huw Morris, who's the groupdirector at SHELL—skills, higher education and lifelong learning—and Marie Knox, who is deputy director, overseeing European transition.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay,thank you very much, and thank you for coming. We'll go straight into questions, then, and the first questions are from Suzy Davies.Suzy Davies AM: Thank you.I'd like to ask you both, if that's okay, a little bit about preparedness. But if I could start with higher education, I understand that—I don't know, it must be about18 months ago now—Ken Skates told another committee in this place that there had been nine sector analyses done. Presumably, one of those was HE, becauseof the—well, Welsh Government had a presence, and still does, in Brussels, related to higher education. Apparently, those have now been superseded by workthat's been done by Cardiff University. I don't know if you've got any comments on that research, or whether it's been brought to your attention yet.KirstyWilliams AM: Well, Suzy, following the vote, I was very keen that we work very closely with colleagues in higher education and further education, to get anunderstanding from on the ground about the potential impact. So, in terms of preparedness, we started that group in the September, and that work from thatgroup, which includes both HE and FE, has been instrumental in helping the Government form its views, which were articulated in the Government's White Paper,'Securing Wales' Future'. There has been ongoing work being done—as the debate in London and Europe becomes a little bit more clear, then it becomes a littleless clear, and then a little bit more clear, but, bearing in mind the difficulties of working in an ever-changing field, we have been refining those approaches. Eachinstitution has been looking at their own institution, because, as you can imagine, although we have an overview of the sector, the challenges are very differentfor individual institutions—so their exposure, for instance, to the number of European Union students that they have at their college, or the work that they mightbe doing with Horizon 2020, or their success—and there has been considerable success in the HE field in securing structural funds for various projects—theexposure and the potential impact of leaving the EU, in a 'no deal' or in a 'deal' scenario, is very, very different. But I don't know if, Huw, you want to talk anyfurther.Suzy Davies AM: Maybe just to use the 'no deal' scenario is probably the easiest, isn't it?Kirsty Williams AM: The 'no deal'?Suzy Davies AM: Well, yes,because that's the worst-case scenario, so let's look at that one.Huw Morris: As the Cabinet Secretary mentioned, the higher education Brexit workinggroup's been meeting since September 2016 and has been looking at that in general. More recently, when the prospect of no deal became talked about, officialshave been visiting individual institutions to talk to them about their preparedness for that. As you'll be aware, the funding for much of the activity is secured, webelieve, even under a 'no deal' scenario, until December 2020; that's a letter we had from the Chief Secretary to the Treasury. I think the research you'rereferring to may be research that Cardiff University has been doing with the Bevan Foundation and others. I know there's a report due to be launched later today.We have been doing our own research and looking at the impact on HE, FE and apprenticeship providers.Suzy Davies AM: Well, that's really helpful because myunderstanding was that this Cardiff University research had superseded all those nine sector analyses.Huw Morris: That may be true for the economy brief.Certainly, there are published papers by Max Munday and a team at Cardiff University on the impact of Brexit on the Welsh economy, but for HE and FE andapprenticeship provision, it's as the Cabinet Secretary outlined.Suzy Davies AM: So, are there any formal risk assessments that are available for us to scrutinise,for example? For HE and FE for that matter.Kirsty Williams AM: Well, the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales have been doing some specific work; I can'tcomment on how wide they would want that to be shared. We have been doing some broad analysis, as I said, for the sector, looking at what we can do tomitigate the risk, bearing in mind that each institution is an autonomous institution, a principle that they guard really jealously, and rightly so. So, we have been,as Huw said, because the prospect of a 'no deal' has become, perhaps, more to the forefront, officers have been visiting each institution to try and make sure andto satisfy us, as people who fund part of their activity, that they have their own plans in place to deal with these scenarios. We continue to work alongside them topush the issues that we can help them with. So, for instance, we continue to work with officials in Westminster around Erasmus+ provision in a 'no deal' scenario,what a UK stand-alone project would look like, the impacts of a 'no deal' on Horizon 2020. So, we look at the broader picture and we are encouraging continuallyindividual institutions to make sure that they themselves are looking at their specific needs within that.Suzy Davies AM: Well, if there is something that'sshareable, I'm sure we'd be very pleased to see it—Kirsty Williams AM: Anything that we've got—Suzy Davies AM: —particularly with FE, actually, because, ofcourse, we haven't got a HEFCW for FE; you're doing that regulation yourself. I'd expect to see that type of work evidenced somewhere from within WelshGovernment, and we would be able to see that then.Eluned Morgan AM: So, if I could just make some points on FE. We've been actively engaging with the FEsector. We've spoken to every one of the colleges about how they see things developing. I think it's quite a different response than what is going to be happeningin HE.Suzy Davies AM: Yes, because the student thing isn't such an issue, is it?Eluned Morgan AM: You've got to remember that the FE colleges are much moreanchored within their communities, they're much more localised, and so, for example, the number of EU students in these colleges is significantly lower. Thenumber of staff in these colleges—I think they've analysed that there are only about 71 people. So, we're keeping in touch with them and we're letting them knowwhat we are being told in terms of the Home Office settled status and what we can do to protect those 71. But that's a much bigger issue, I think, for highereducation.Suzy Davies AM: What are they telling you about European social fund funding, though, because, as you say, they're locally anchored—the impact onFE of ESF funding is probably more significant than the issues we're talking about with higher education. How are you finding this out? Is this through one-to-oneconversations?Eluned Morgan AM: We are engaging with them all, and, obviously, we're engaging with ColegauCymru, who've done their own analysis, and whatwe found, in particular, is that the real problems are probably in relation to ESF funding and apprenticeships. But what you've got to remember is that that linkbetween apprenticeships and the local work community is absolutely crucial. So, if—Suzy Davies AM: Yes, that's why I asked.Eluned Morgan AM: —the economynosedives, or if there's an issue that we see—just the dislocation of companies in those areas as a result of Brexit—then that will inevitably have an impact on thenumber of apprenticeships that will be on offer. So, it's those kinds of things, but at the moment I think it's worth pointing out that about £15 million a year goesinto the FE sector just in relation to apprenticeships.Suzy Davies AM: Can I just come back finally on that, before handing over? In both your areas ofresponsibility, there's going to be an impact on Welsh Government in how it responds to that, as well. Can you tell me a little bit about the European transitionteam, which I think is about building resilience within the Welsh Government to deal with the impacts of Brexit? Is that a formal arrangement you have withofficials? I don't really know much about this team, but it seems to meet fortnightly to get Welsh Government ready for Brexit, so could you just give us someclues on this?Marie Knox: Yes, in terms of the European transition team, that's the central co-ordinating group that pulls together all the leads in each departmentwho are pulling together the work on European transition. So, I attend that group in relation to higher education and further education, and, obviously, otherrepresentatives in terms of agriculture, transport, the economy, et cetera.Suzy Davies AM: It's great that you're on that group, but what does it actually do?That's the bit I wasn't sure about.Marie Knox: I guess it provides the governance structure for the Welsh Government as a whole in relation to Europeantransition. So, individual departments do their own work, and the European transition team provides the governance structure, and, also, they lead on thediscussions with the Department for Exiting the European Union, No. 10, the Joint Ministerial Committee—those kinds of ministerial arrangements.Suzy DaviesAM: Thank you. I've had enough time, I think.Lynne Neagle AM: Llyr.Llyr Gruffydd AM: I'll ask my questions in Welsh, if I may. This discussion between HEFCWand higher education, these challenges in terms of how ready they are for the changes to come, and the work that the Government is doing with FE, I suspect, ishappening at an organisational level. So, I just want to hear a little about where the student voice comes into that discussion and where the engagement happensin terms of the students.Kirsty Williams AM: So, we have a close working relationship with the National Union of Students. I meet with them regularly, andofficials are in constant touch with the student voice. They have been very clear, and I think there is a huge amount of consensus between the WelshGovernment, what the universities are asking for and what the students are asking for. You'll have seen, only earlier this week, the very powerful campaign byNUS Wales about the importance of Erasmus+ arrangements. There is a huge amount to be gained for Welsh students and young people participating in theErasmus programme. Many of us, I know, have had the opportunity to study abroad as part of our own studies, and there's a lot to be gained from it. We've beenvery clear from the outset, as have the sector and the student voice, about the importance of participation in that scheme.  NUS are also very concerned that


Grad B: Grad D: How many batteries do you go through ?Grad B: Thank you .Professor C: Alright .PhD A: Sure .Professor C: Good . Yeah . OK so , let 's getstarted . Nancy said she 's coming and that means she will be . Um . My suggestion is that Robert and Johno sort of give us a report on last week 's adventures uhto start . So everybody knows there were these guys f uh from Heidelber - uh , uh , actually from uh DFKI uh , part of the German SmartKom project , who werehere for the week and , I think got a lot done .Grad E: Yeah , I think so too . Um . The {disfmarker} we got to the point where we can now speak into theSmartKom system , and it 'll go all the way through and then say something like " Roman numeral one , am Smarticus . " It actually says , " Roemisch einz , amSmarticus , "Grad B: OK .Grad E: which means it 's just using a German sythesis module for English sentences .Grad B: OK .Grad E: So uh ,Professor C: Itdoesn't know " I " .Grad B: OK .Grad E: Um , the uhGrad B: Oh , Am Spartacus . "Grad D: " I am Sm - I am Smarticus " is what it 's saying .PhD A: Right .Grad B:Verstehe . OK .Grad D: I gueGrad E: The uh sythesis is just a question of um , hopefully it 's just a question of exchanging a couple of files , once we have them .And , um , it 's not going to be a problem because we decided to stick to the so - called concept to speech approach . So I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm {disfmarker} I 'mgoing backwards now , so " synthesis " is where you sort of make this {disfmarker} uh , make these sounds , and " concept to speech " is feeding into thissynthesis module giving it what needs to be said , and the whole syntactic structure so it can pronounce things better , presumably . Then , just with text tospeech .Grad B: Mm - hmm .Grad E: And , uh , Johno learned how to write XML tags . Uh , and did write the tree adjoining grammar for some {disfmarker} somesentences . No , right ?Grad D: Yeah .Grad E: Yeah , for a couple {disfmarker}Grad D: So . Bu - Uh , i The way the uh , the dialogue manager works is it dumpsout what it wants to know , or what it wants to tell the person , to a {disfmarker} er in XML and there 's a conversion system for different uh , to go from XML tosomething else . And th so , the knowledge base for the system , that generates the syntasti syntactic structures for the ge generation is uh , in a LISP - like{disfmarker} the knowledge base is in a LISP - like form . And then the thing that actually builds these syntactic structures is something based on Prolog . So ,you have a {disfmarker} basically , a goal and it , you know , says " OK , well I 'm gonna try to do the Greet - the - person goal ,Grad B: Mm - hmm .Grad D: soit just starts {disfmarker} uh , it binds some variables and it just decides to , you know , do some subscold . Basically , it just means " build the tree . "Grad B:OK .Grad D: And then it passes the tree onto , uh , the ge the generation module .Grad E: But I think that the point is that out of the twelve possible utterancesthat the German system can do , we 've already written the {disfmarker} the syntax trees for three or four .Grad D: We yeah . So , the syntax trees are verysimple . It 's like most of the sentences in one tree ,Grad B: Mm - hmm .Grad D: and instead of , you know , breaking down to , like , small units and buildingback up , they basically took the sentences , and basically cut them in half , or you know , into thirds or something like that , and made trees out of those . And souh , uh Tilman wrote a little tool that you could take LISP notation and generate an XML , uh , tree . Uh , S what do ca structure from the {disfmarker} from theLISP . And so basically you just say , you know , " noun goes to " , you know , Er , nah , I don't re I 've never been good at those . So there 's like the VP goes toN and those things in LISP , and it will generate for you .Grad B: OK . N , N , V yeah , OK . Alright .Grad E: And because we 're sticking to that structure , thesynthesis module doesn't need to be changed . So all that f fancy stuff , and the Texas speech version of it , which is actually the simpler version , is gonna bedone in October which is much too late for us . So . This way we {disfmarker} we worked around that . The , uh {disfmarker} the system , um {disfmarker} I canshow you the system . I actually want , at least , maybe , you should be able to start it on your own . If you wanna play around with it , in th in the future . Rightnow it 's brittle and you need to ch start it up and then make ts twenty changes on {disfmarker} on {disfmarker} on {disfmarker} on seventeen modules beforethey actually can stomach it , anything . And send in a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a couple of side queries on some dummy center set - up program so that itactually works because it 's designed for this seevit thing , where you have the gestural recognition running with this s Siemens virtual touch screen , which wedon't have here .Grad B: Mm - hmm .Grad E: And so we 're doing it via mouse , but the whole system was designed to work with this thing and it was{disfmarker} It was a lot of engineering stuff . No science in there whatsoever , but it 's working now , and um , that 's the good news . So everything elseactually did prove to be language independent except for the parsing and the generation .Grad D: Why {disfmarker} I had {disfmarker} I did need to changenerate different trees than the German ones , mainly because you know like uh , the gerund in {disfmarker} in German is automatically taken care of with justa regular verb ,Grad E: You have to switch it on .Grad B: Mm - hmm .Grad D: so I 'd uh have to add " am walking , "Grad B: OK .Grad D: or I 'd have to add alittle stem for the " am " , when I build the {disfmarker} built the tree .Grad B: OK . Yeah , I noticed that um , that some of the examples they had , had youknow , non - English word orders and so on , you know . And then all that good stuff . So .Professor C: Alright .Grad D: Yeah .Grad B: Like .Professor C: So itmight be worth , Keith , you looking at this ,Grad B: Yeah .Professor C: umGrad B: I {disfmarker} I still don't {disfmarker} I still don't really understand e like{disfmarker}Grad D: Well Tilman sGrad B: I mean we sort of say , um {disfmarker} You know , I {disfmarker} I still don't exactly understand sort of theinformation flow uh in {disfmarker} in this thing , or what the modules are and so on . So , you know , like just that such - and - such module uh um decides thatit wants to achieve the goal of greeting the user , and then magically it sort of sProfessor C: Yeah {disfmarker}Grad B: I mean , how does it know which syntacticstructure to pull out , and all that ?Professor C: I thi Yeah . So . I think it 's not worth going over in the group ,Grad B: R uh Sure .Professor C: but sort of whenyou get free and you have the time uh either Robert or Johno or I can walk you through it .Grad B: Yeah , soon . OK .Professor C: And you can ask all thequestions about how this all fits together .Grad B: That 's fine .Professor C: It 's eee {comment} messy but once you understand it you understand it . It 's{disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} There 's nothing really complicated about it .Grad B: OK .Grad E: No .Grad B: And I remember one thing that {disfmarker} thatcame up in the talk last Wednesday . Um , was this , I {disfmarker} I think he talked about the idea of like , um {disfmarker} He was talking about theselexicalized uh , uh , tree adjoining grammars where you sort of {disfmarker} for each word you , um {disfmarker}Grad D: OK , you know how to do it ?Grad B:For each lexical item , the lexical entry says what all the uh trees are that it can appear in . And of course , that 's not v That 's the opposite of constructional .That 's , you know , that 's {disfmarker} that 's HPSG or whatever .Professor C: Right .Grad B: You know ?Professor C: Right . Now , we 're {disfmarker} we 'renot committed for our research to {pause} do any of those things .Grad B: Yeah . Mm - hmm .Professor C: So uh we are committed for our funding .Grad B:Right .Professor C: OK ? to {pause} uh {disfmarker}Grad B: Make our stuff fit to that .Professor C: Yeah , to {disfmarker} n no , to just get the dem get thedemos they need .Grad B: Uh - huh .Professor C: OK ? So between us all we have t to get th the demos they need . If it turns out we can also give them lotsmore than that by , you know , tapping into other things we do , that 's great .Grad D: You should probably move the microphone closer to your face .Grad B: Mm- hmm .Professor C: But i it turns out not to be in an any of the contractsGrad D: There 's like a little {disfmarker} The twisty thing , you can move it with .GradB: OK .Professor C: and , s deliberately . So , the reason I 'd like you to understand uh what 's going on in this demo system is not because it 's important to theresearch . It 's just for closure . So that if we come up with a question of " could we fit this deeper stuff in there ? " or something . You know what the hell we we're talking about fitting in .Grad B: Right . OK .Professor C: So it 's just , uh in the sam same actually with the rest of us we just need to really understand what 'sthere . Is there anything we can make use of ? Uh , is there anything we can give back , beyond th the sort of minimum requirements ? But none of that has ashort time fuse .Grad B: OK .Professor C: So th the demo the demo requirements for this Fall are sort of taken care of as of later this week or something . Andthen {disfmarker} So , it 's probably fifteen months or something until there 's another serious demo requirement .Grad B: Oh OK .Professor C: That doesn'tmean we don't think about it for fifteen months ,Grad B: Right .Professor C: but it means we can not think about it for six months .Grad B: Right , yeah .ProfessorC: So . The plan for this summer uh , really is to step back from the applied project ,Grad E: Right .Professor C: keep the d keep the context open , but actuallygo after the basic issues .Grad B: Hmm . Oh OK .Professor C: And , so The idea is there 's this uh , other subgroup that 's worrying about formalizing the notagetting a notation . But sort of in parallel with that , uh , the hope is tha in particularly you will work on constructions in English Ge - and German for this domain,Grad B: Mm - hmm .Professor C: but y not worry about parsing them or fitting them into SmartKom or any of the other {disfmarker} anything lik any otherconstraints for the time being .Grad B: Yeah . OK . Got it .Professor C: It 's hard enough to get it semantically and syntactically right and then {disfmarker} andget the constructions in their form and stuff .Grad B: Yeah .Professor C: And , I don I don't want you f feeling that you have to somehow meet all these otherconstraints .Grad B: Right , OK .Professor C: Um . And similarly with the parsing , uh we 're gonna worry about parsing uh , the general case you know ,construction parser for general constructions . And , if we need a cut - down version for something , or whatever , we 'll worry about that later .Grad B: OK.Professor C: So I 'd like to , for the summer turn into science mode .Grad B: OK .Professor C: And I assume that 's also , uh , your plan as well .Grad B: So Imean , the {disfmarker} the point is that like the meetings um so far that I 've been at have been {disfmarker} sort of been geared towards this demo ,ProfessorC: Right . Yeah . Yeah .Grad B: and then that 's going to go away pretty soon .Professor C: But {disfmarker} but we we 're switGrad B: OK .Professor C: Right


Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: Okayeveryone's ready .User Interface: Hello .Project Manager: So we are here for uh for uh functional design .User Interface: {gap}Project Manager: Okay ? So weare here for the functional design meeting mm {vocalsound} so first I will show the agenda so we will uh I will take notes during this meeting so I will try tosummarise it and put that summary in the shared folder if you want to look at it afterwardsUser Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: so then uh each of youwill uh lead a presentation on the task that has been required last time so user requirement specification , technical function design and working design . Then Iwill uh present you some new project requirements I received from uh the management board . Then we will take uh the decision on on the remote control uhneeded functions and then I will assign you the task for the next part of the meeting . Of the {disfmarker} of the process . So uh who want to start the thepresentation of what they did ?Industrial Designer: F do you want to start ?User Interface: Make a start yeah .Project Manager: You can start .User Interface: So. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Cable , camera .Project Manager: You have uh PowerPoint ?User Interface: Should be in my{disfmarker} in their folder no ?Project Manager: Ah yeah maybe there . Okay .User Interface: Up .Project Manager: Who are you ? {vocalsound}User Interface:Um at three I think .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: No ? {vocalsound} Mm .Project Manager: Ouch . And {disfmarker}User Interface:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay . {vocalsound}Project Manager: We have a technical problem uh .User Interface: Do we think w s in the {disfmarker} inthe wrong folder maybe ? {vocalsound} It is possible .Project Manager: You put it on {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: No .User Interface: It was somewhere insomething like this . I don't remember the name actually must be something like messenger AMI or something .Industrial Designer: What do you have in shortcut ?User Interface: Go up .Industrial Designer: Participant two .User Interface: Yeah go up .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: Again . No . Go back .ProjectManager: You have no {disfmarker}User Interface: Uh maybe messenger AMI . Messenger .Project Manager: Over . Okay .User Interface: No . There is nothing.Project Manager: There's no {disfmarker} We have a technical problem .User Interface: Let's go and check .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: I'll go andcheck .Industrial Designer: Otherwise , could you just describe by hand ?User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: With the the whiteboard ?Project Manager: Ifyou remember yeahUser Interface: Yeah . Yeah .Project Manager: but that's {disfmarker}User Interface: So uh . Basically {vocalsound} what we want here is aremote control right .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound} So um the question well first of all what to control . So {vocalsound} most peoplewant to have a a remote for their hi-fi and T_V_ and stuff like that .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .User Interface: And {disfmarker} but other people want thalso remotes for {vocalsound} controlling uh and toys like robotic pets and little robots and stuffIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .User Interface: and other peoplealso want to have remotes for controlling um whole house .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Yeah , so there's a project Ithink called X_ house or something like that that does that , uh you can integrate your remote with uh computers stuff . So {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:Mm-hmm .User Interface: there is one {disfmarker} that is one thing . The other is the the finder feature yeah by whistling or whatever . Uh if you have thefinder feature then you can also haveIndustrial Designer: Okay .User Interface: uh at the same time as {disfmarker} and general voice commands if you wantyeah . {vocalsound} So I think it should be a package in that case .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Uh so the user interface will consist of twoparts . {vocalsound} One is the voice command part and on one is the actual buttons part . {vocalsound} Uh and th the buttons part would be uh a set of buttonsfor choosing devices , a set of buttons for special navigation in space ,Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .User Interface: a set of buttons for{vocalsound} linear access of medium and a set of buttons for random access .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Yeah ?Industrial Designer: What do youmean by linear access then ?User Interface: Like a video tape goes forward , backwards , uh fast and stuff yeah .Industrial Designer: Ah .Project Manager: Okayso special navigation , linear access , random accessUser Interface: Um .Project Manager: and there's a fourth one no ?User Interface: Mm ?Project Manager: Sothe better now for special navigation ?User Interface: Yeah . For special navigation for example you might have a T_V_ in the menu and you going to change yeah?Project Manager: Okay . Then linear accessUser Interface: Uh .Project Manager: then random access .User Interface: Mm . Yeah and also parameter changing.Project Manager: Ah yeah parameter okay .User Interface: {vocalsound} So if there are common parameters maybe we should put special buttons for thatumProject Manager: Okay .User Interface: or maybe we could have everything uh generic but uh there are a lot of uh remotes on the market right now and{vocalsound} basically this is most of the {disfmarker} almost everybody has this stuff .Project Manager: Okay . Okay and and voice command did you uh{disfmarker}User Interface: Voice command w we could specify anything . We could assign any button {disfmarker} a command to any button , if we haveenough processing power ,Project Manager: Okay . Okay .User Interface: I guess so . {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Yeah .ProjectManager: So that's uh that close your investigations ?User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Uh yeah I think so .Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Not so far .Project Manager: Maybe we can have a look at the user requirements with {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah . {vocalsound} Um I dunno ifyou can open the {disfmarker}Project Manager: I dunno if I can open it . Maybe you can sMarketing: uh m is not here .Project Manager: It's{disfmarker}Marketing: Uh in {disfmarker} yeah okay .Project Manager: Messenger no ?Marketing: No . In document {gap} . Mm computer yeah .ProjectManager: In which folder ?User Interface: Where did you put it ?Marketing: Here . Here .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Short-cut to AMI shared folder ?UserInterface: {gap} mm .Marketing: But it's not {disfmarker} Um .Project Manager: Maybe you can send it to me by email . Just to participant one . At AMI.Marketing: Mm-hmm . Yeah , I can do that .Project Manager: I will try to show it to everyone , that would be more comfortable .Marketing: Okay . Um .ProjectManager: You send it ?Marketing: {vocalsound} It's participant one ?Project Manager: Yeah . Uh this is this email .User Interface: I'm designing the userinterface . {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay . You can uh .Project Manager: Okay . So maybe I can switch slides when you {disfmarker} whenever you ask,Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: that will be more convenient . So okay , functional requirements .Marketing: Okay so you can {disfmarker} you can go . Okayso {vocalsound} in our usability lab we observed the remote control use among one hundred subjectsProject Manager: Mm .Marketing: and the subjects alsofilled a questionnaireProject Manager: Yeah .Marketing: okay ? And here I have the results so you can see that um seventy five per cent of users find mostremote controls ugly so we have to find something to make them more {vocalsound} more nice , more kind . Eighty per cents of users would spend more moneywhen the remote control would look fancy . {vocalsound} Eighty hundred per cent of users would spend more money when the remote control would look{disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: oh {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} it's not good . {vocalsound} So okay.Project Manager: We can just keep doing that ?Marketing: So it's not in theory {disfmarker} but I I can I can say yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Fifty f uh seventy five per cent of users say they s zap a lot . So mm {vocalsound} we have to have a remote control uh very um {vocalsound} outfor that . {vocalsound} Uh the buttons have {disfmarker} are to be um uh uh like you say resist resisting to to shocks .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing:{vocalsound} Um and fifty per cents of users say they only use uh {vocalsound} ten per cents of but of the buttons in the {disfmarker} in the remote control.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: So all the buttons we we have to put are {disfmarker} have to to have um a use a realuseProject Manager: Okay .Marketing: and not only or {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay , so fewer buttons maybe would be good ?Marketing: Yeah . F notmany buttons , and uh and uh uh u useable buttons {vocalsound} .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: But what kind of remote controls did you look at?Marketing: Sorry ?User Interface: What kind of task was it ? It was a T_V_ ?Marketing: Yeah . Uh {vocalsound} most for most is T_V_ .Project Manager: Yeah .Yeah but in fact we {disfmarker} it it seems that we are going to make a T_V_ remote control according to new requirements I received from themanagementUser Interface: Huh .Project Manager: bo I will present them in the following .User Interface: Uh-huh . Ah ! Good .Marketing: {vocalsound} 'Kay youcan go so .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: So there are other frustrations expressed by users , so they said uh they lost uh often the remote control in in theroom so they want to have a way to {vocalsound} toProject Manager: Yeah . To find it .Marketing: to find it .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Um and um lot ofthe time they {disfmarker} it takes too much time to learn how to use a new remote control .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: So they want something s reallyvery simple and uh easy to use .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: And uh remote controls are bad forProject Manager: What isher other side ?Marketing: R_S_I_ {vocalsound} um {disfmarker}User Interface: Other side yeah , yo wa your wristMarketing: I dunno .Project Manager:{vocalsound}User Interface: It i can become painful you can have tendonditis .Project Manager: Oh yeah ?User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: I did not knewthat .User Interface: If you also {gap} up on a computer in a strange position .Project Manager: Okay so you {disfmarker} we have to make it uh moreergonomic yeah .User Interface: Ergonomic . But uh {vocalsound} .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: Have to say ha ha . {vocalsound}Project Manager:{vocalsound} It's your job {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Uh .Project Manager: Uh sorry


Grad A: Yeah , I think I got my mike on . OK . Let 's see .Professor B: OK . Ami , do yours then we 'll open it and I think it 'll be enough .Grad A: Mmm{disfmarker} Doesn't , uh {disfmarker} It should be the other way . Yeah , now it 's on .PhD F: Right . OK .Professor B: OK . So , we all switched on ?Grad A: Weare all switched on , yeah .Professor B: Alright . Anyway . So , uh , before we get started with the , uh , technical part , I just want to review what I think ishappening with the {disfmarker} our data collection .PhD F: We are all switched on .Professor B: So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Uh , probably after today ,{vocalsound} that shouldn't come up in this meeting . Th - this {disfmarker} this is s should be im it isn't {disfmarker} There 's another thing going on ofgathering data , and that 's pretty much independent of this . But , uh , I just want to make sure we 're all together on this . What we think is gonna happen isthat , uh , in parallel starting about now {vocalsound} we 're gonna get Fey {vocalsound} to , where you 're working with me and Robert , draft a note that we 'regonna send out to various CogSci c and other classes saying , " here 's an opportunity to be a subject . Contact Fey . " And then there 'll be a certain number ofum , hours during the week which she will be available and we 'll bring in people . Uh , roughly how many , Robert ? We d Do we know ?Grad C: Um , fifty wasour {disfmarker} sort of our first {disfmarker}Professor B: OK . So , we 're looking for a total of fifty people , not necessarily by any means all students but we 'lls we 'll start with {disfmarker} with that . In parallel with that , we 're gonna need to actually do the script . And , so , I guess there 's a plan to have a meetingFriday afternoon Uh , with {disfmarker} uh , Jane , and maybe Liz and whoever , on actually getting the script worked out . But what I 'd like to do , if it 's O K ,{vocalsound} is to s to , as I say , start the recruiting in parallel and possibly start running subjects next week . The week after that 's Spring Break , and maybewe 'll look for them {disfmarker} some subjects next doorGrad C: Yeah .Professor B: or {pause} iGrad C: Yeah . Also , Fey will not be here during spring break.Professor B: Oh , OK , then we won't do it .Grad C: So .Professor B: OK . So that 's easy . Um . So , is {disfmarker} Is that make sense to everybody ?Grad C:Yeah . Also , um , F {vocalsound} both Fey and I will , um , {vocalsound} do something of which I may , eh {disfmarker} kindly ask you to {disfmarker} to dothe same thing , which is we gonna check out our social infrastructures for possible subjects . Meaning , {vocalsound} um , kid children 's gymnastic classes , pre- school parents and so forth . They also sometimes have flexible schedules . So , if you happen to be sort of in a non - student social setting , and you knowpeople who may be interested in being subjects {disfmarker} We also considered using the Berkeley High School and their teachers , maybe , and get theminterested in stuff .Professor B: That 's a good idea .Grad C: And , um . So that 's as far as our brainstorming was concerned .Professor B: Oh , yeah . The highschool 's a great idea .Grad C: So . But I {disfmarker} I will just make a first draft of the , uh , note , the " write - up " note , send it to you and Fey and then{disfmarker}Professor B: And why don't you also copy Jane on it ?Grad C: And , um , Are we {disfmarker} Have we concurred that , uh , these {disfmarker}these forms are sufficient for us , and necessary ?Professor B: Uh , th I think they 're necessary . This {disfmarker} The permission form .Grad C: Mmm.Professor B: Uh , there has to be one ,Grad C: Nuh . N .Professor B: and I think we 're just gonna use it as it is , and {pause} UmGrad C: N . You happy with that?Professor B: Well , yeah . There 's one tricky part about , um , they have the right um I The last paragraph {comment} " if you agree to participate you have theopportunity to have anything excised which you would prefer not to have included in the data set . " OK ? Now that , we had to be included for this other onewhich might have , uh , meetings , you know , about something .Grad C: Mm - hmm .Professor B: In this case , it doesn't really make sense . Um , so what I 'dlike to do is also have our subjects sign a waiver saying " I don't want to see the final transcript " .Grad C: Mm - hmm .Professor B: And if they don't {disfmarker}If they say " no , I 'm not willing to sign that " , then we 'll show them the final transcript . But , um .Grad C: Yep . Makes sense .Professor B: That , uh{disfmarker} yeah , so we might actually , um S i Jane may say that , " you know , you can't do this " , uh , " on the same form , we need a separate form . " Butanyway . I 'd {disfmarker} I 'd {disfmarker} I 'd like to , e e um , add an a little thi eh {disfmarker} a thing for them to initial , saying " nah , do I don't want tosee the final transcript . "Grad C: Mm - hmm .Professor B: But other than that , that 's one 's been approved , this really is the same project , uh , rec you know .And so forth . So I think we just go with it .Grad C: Yeah . Yeah . OK . So much for the data , except that with Munich everything is fine now . They 're gonna{vocalsound} transcribe . They 're also gonna translate the , uh , German data from the TV and cinema stuff for Andreas . So . They 're {disfmarker} they allseem to be happy now , {vocalsound} with that . So . w c sh should we move on to the technical sides ?Professor B: Yep .Grad C: Well I guess the good{disfmarker} good news of last week was the parser . So , um Bhaskara and I started working on the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the parser . Then Bhaskarawent to class and once he came back , um , {vocalsound} it was finished . So . It , uh {disfmarker} I didn't measure it , but it was about an hour and ten minutes.Grad D: Yep .Grad C: And , um {disfmarker} and now it 's {disfmarker} We have a complete English parser that does everything the German parser does .GradD: Something like that .Professor B: Which is {vocalsound} not a lot . But {disfmarker}Grad D: That 's the , uh , point .Grad C: The {disfmarker} uh , that 's nota lot .Professor B: OK .Grad D: Yes .Professor B: Right .Grad C: And um .Grad E: What did you end up having to do ? I mean , wha Was there anything {pause}interesting about it at all ?Grad C: Well , if you , eh {disfmarker}Grad D: We 'll show you .Professor B: Yeah , we can show us ,Grad E: or are we gonna see that?Professor B: right ?Grad C: Well , w w We d The first we did is we {disfmarker} we tried to {disfmarker} to do {disfmarker} change the {disfmarker} the "laufen " into " run " , {vocalsound} or " running " , {vocalsound} or " runs " .Professor B: Yep .Grad C: And we noticed that whatever we tried to do , it no effect.Grad E: Mm - hmm .Grad C: And we were puzzled .Grad E: OK .Grad C: And , uh , the reason was that the parser i c completely ignores the verb .Grad E: Mm -hmm .Grad C: So this sentence {disfmarker} sentence is {disfmarker} parses the p the same output ,Grad E: Hmm . Interesting parser property .Grad C: um ,even if you leave out , um , all {disfmarker} all of this .Grad E: I see . Yeah .Grad C: So it 's basically feature film and TV .Grad E: TodayGrad C: That 's what youneed .Grad E: OK .Grad C: If {disfmarker} if you 'd add {disfmarker} add Today and Evening , it 'll add Time or not .Grad E: And the {disfmarker} t and the time, right ?Grad C: So it {disfmarker} i it does look at that .Grad E: OK .Grad C: But all the rest is p simply frosting on the cake , and it 's optional for that parser.Grad E: True .Professor B: So , you can sho You {disfmarker} you {disfmarker} Are {disfmarker} are you gonna show us the little templates ?Grad C: And{disfmarker}Grad E: SGrad C: Yeah . We ar we can sh er {disfmarker} I can show you the templates . I {disfmarker} I also have it running here ,Grad E: Theformer end g " Oh , I see . Uh - huh .Grad C: so if I {vocalsound} do this now , um , {vocalsound} you can see that it parsed the wonderful English sentence , "Which films are on the cinema today {pause} evening ? " But , um .Professor B: Well , that sounds {disfmarker}Grad C: Uh do don't worry about it .Professor B:No iGrad C: It could be " this evening , which {disfmarker} which films are on the cinema " , or " running in the cinema , which {disfmarker} " uh , " todayevening " , uh i " Is anything happening in the cinema this evening ? "Grad E: OK . OK . Key words , e basically .Professor B: WellGrad C: Ge - elaborate , or ,more or less , {vocalsound} uh {disfmarker}Professor B: Actually , it 's a little tricky , in that there 's some allowable German orders which aren't allowableEnglish orders and so forth . And it is order - based . So it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} Isn't it ?Grad C: No .Grad D: No .Professor B: Oh . So it {disfmarker} itdoe I it {disfmarker} These {disfmarker} u these optional elements ,Grad C: It is not {disfmarker}Professor B: it 's {disfmarker} it 's actually a set , not asequence ?Grad C: Yeah . We were {disfmarker} I was afraid that , um {disfmarker}Professor B: Oh !Grad E: So it really is key word matching , basically.Professor B: Really a seGrad C: Um .PhD F: e yeah . Mm - hmm .Professor B: Oh , wow .Grad C: Um , I mean , these sentences are just silly .Grad E: Hmm.Grad C: I mean , uh , d these were not the ones we {disfmarker} we actually did it . Um . What 's an idiomatic of phrasing this ? Which films are {pause}showing ?Grad D: Are pl playing at the cinema ?Grad C: playing ?Grad D: Yeah .Grad E: Tonight ?Grad D: I changed that file , actually , where it 's on my account.Grad E: This {disfmarker} this evening ?PhD F: Actually , you would say , " which films are on tonight ? "Grad D: You want to get it ? Or {disfmarker} is{disfmarker} di was it easy to get it ?Grad C: Um . I have no net here .Grad D: Oh , OK .Professor B: Do I ?Grad C: OK . So . Wonderful parse , same thing . Um.Professor B: Right .Grad C: Except that we d w we don't have this , uh , time information here now , which is , um {disfmarker} Oh . This {disfmarker} are thereserve . Anyways . {vocalsound} So . Um . These are the {disfmarker} sort of the ten different sentence types that the uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} theparser was able to do . And it still is , now in English .Professor B: Yeah .Grad E: Mm - hmm .Grad C: And , um {disfmarker} Sorry . And , um you have already tomake it a little bit more elaborate , right ?Grad D: Yeah , I mean I changed those sentences to make it , uh , more , uh , idiomatic . And , of course , you can havei many variations in those sentences , they will still parse fine . So , in a sense it 's pretty broad .Professor B: OK .Grad C: OK . So , if you want to look at thetemplates , {vocalsound} {vocalsound} they 're conveniently located in a file , " template " . Um , and this is what I had to do . I had to change , @ @{comment} " Spielfilm " to " film " , uh , " Film " to " movie " , cinem " Kino " to " cinema " {disfmarker} to " today " {disfmarker} heu " heute " to " today ",Grad E: Huh .Grad C: evening {disfmarker} " Abend " to " evening "Professor B: Capitalized as wellGrad A: Hmm .Grad C: And , um .Professor B: Y iGrad D: Onething I was wondering , was , those functions there , are those things that modify the M - three - L basically ?Grad C: Yep .Grad D: OK .Grad C: And that 's{disfmarker} that 's the next step ,Professor B: pGrad C: but we 'll get to that in a second .Professor B: Oh .Grad C: And so this means , um , " this " and " see "


Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay , welcome to the second meeting of this uh design group . Um {vocalsound} I'll briefly go through theuh notes of the of the last meeting uh just done in in note form and I haven't attributed anything to individuals , because we're working strictly as a team hereand uh n nobody's working equally ,User Interface: Sorry .Project Manager: so uh . Um we we s we saw that the the problems with existing remote controls werethe uh b a boring shape and boring colour . Um and and we s we saw that the um what we needed to do was to to make sure the device um controls severalitems , that switching was easy , that you shouldn't need to point the thing at uh anything in particular , um that it need to be contoured to make it interesting ,that the keys might be concave , simply because that hasn't been done before that we know of . Um should have interchangeable fascias so people canpersonalise it , um illuminated so that people can see it in dark rooms . Um and that people might want it as as {disfmarker} in addition to their existing remotecontrols . Um {vocalsound} and that it sh it should just always work , whenever you uh um mm uh use it . And that it shouldn't be too small , mm that it it getslost . Um . {gap} Now uh uh I'll shortly ask for for three three presentations . Uh before I do that , however , I will go through some new project requirementsthat um {disfmarker} the the management have placed on us and uh will be challenging in terms of what we discussed at the first meeting . Um the uh the mathe management has had it's own thoughts on this and uh the they don't necessarily agree with with what we uh we thought . Um and and then we'll{disfmarker} as a result of that we will then talk through the the functions that we see the the device um actually b carrying out , and we have uh forty minutesto do this in and I uh {disfmarker} Anyway . Okay . Now , the n the new requirements are um the the management team see that um teletext is no longer of anyimportance given the uh the rise of the internet . Um and and they want it only to cover televisions . Um now , what is not q quite clear from their directive iswhether they mean th they don't want it to cover teletext or whether they don't want it to cover , you know , videos , D_V_D_s , um satellite boxes , which uh{disfmarker} I mean we saw as being fundamental to the uh to the exercise . The um the actual wording of the directive is that it should cover television only .Um and on that basis um I I think we we need to bear that in mind , um but possibly uh keep at the backs of our minds that the reality that people even whenthey uh no longer {disfmarker} they don't look at teletext anymore , they certainly do look at other things . Um {vocalsound} the device has to incorporate thecompany logo and colours . Um the the logo uh being at b the bottom of the screen there , the the the two R_s in grey against uh a yellow background . Um nowthis doesn't {vocalsound} necessarily mean that we have to give up some of our ideas about making it attractive to the t to the market . But uh do do introducesome some constraints as to how we might do that . Um it also has to be simple , which to some extent goes along w with the first one , and that {disfmarker}we've already said that it must be simple 'cause that's what people want anyway . Um but they also want it to be simple to get it to the market quickly , which ummm {vocalsound} uh is is is their choice , but uh um we we need to talk that through . Um okay , so uh after the meeting it'll be summarised and uhIndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: um notes sent out and uh etcetera . Okay , so {vocalsound} we'll first of all mm haveindividual reports from everybody . Um again I {vocalsound} {disfmarker} there is no order of precedence here um so I I I'll leave it up to you to {disfmarker}who who who thinks they would like to go go first ?Marketing: Uh I don't mind . {gap}Project Manager: P fine .Marketing: Uh can I steal the cable ?ProjectManager: Oh sorry , you can indeed .Marketing: Cheers .Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I got a{disfmarker} how do I start there ?Project Manager: Oh , if you click on the um uh the one that that looks like a projection screen , no the one to the right of that. That one .Marketing: That one . Cool . Well these are functionality requirements from the {disfmarker} our our guys down in the the research lab . Tookhundred people and covered all the aspects of what um is needed by people and what they want to see . Um {vocalsound} everything kinda from functionalityand how individual functions are {disfmarker} how mu how how often they're used and how much their necessary and stuff . And general opinions about currentcurrent remotes . See that , as we kinda noticed , seventy five percent of people find their remote controls ugly . So some kind of a new style should beincorporated that's less ugly {vocalsound} . Uh along with um looking less ugly , if it looks better , eighty percent of people said they'd spend more money on it .Which is a a plus for us , if we can make it look better , it'd be uh more cost effective and we can put the price up . Current remote controls do not match theoperating behaviour of the user . I can empl I kinda take that to mean as um {vocalsound} they they don't uh {disfmarker} they , yeah , they only use{disfmarker} they only work for the television or yeah like as in in my flat I've got six remote controls for a stereo system , a digital box , a D_V_D_ player , avideo player and T_V_ . If it was uh {disfmarker} I mean th my behaviour is to use multiple things at the same time and multiple remotes aren't really matchedwell to my behaviour . {vocalsound} Uh again , seventy five percent is {disfmarker} seventy five percent of users say they zap a lot . I took to mean that theyjust {disfmarker} they use it a lot , they use it regularly rather than standing up and manually change channels or volume {gap} . {vocalsound} And uh yeah ,uh I think the big issue is fifty percent users only use ten percent of the buttons , 'cause uh wh if we got a remote that like {disfmarker} well we'll have somebuttons taken off by the lack of teletext , but uh oh and we're going to see uh on the {disfmarker} uh that some of the functions like audio settings aren't hhardly ever used and used very {disfmarker} aren't considered relevant by the user . So I think maybe fewer buttons , which also make the design look sleeker ,I dunno . Uh um yeah and uh frustrations of like people losing remote control .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: I dunno maybe some kind of system of you pressa button on the T_V_ or maybe that's b it would have to incorporate {gap} , but like some kind of system where you can f use something else to find the remotecontrol . Maybe like it'll beep or something . And um , yep , the uh time taken to learn new remote controls is {disfmarker} Uh don't want to make it toocomplicated , easy to use for uh new {disfmarker} like first time users and stuff . And uh repetitive strain injury , I suppose we should make it more comfortableand make ma possibly even use {disfmarker} have to make it , yeah , fewer buttons , like I was saying about the whole mice {disfmarker} the mouse idea of itfeels more comfortable .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: Maybe don't even have to hold it as such .Project Manager: Gosh , must be some telly addicts out thereif they get R_S_I_ from their television remote , is all I can say .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: But uh yeah . It also asked um if we would {disfmarker} if people would pay more for speech recognitionProject Manager: {vocalsound}{gap}Marketing: and younger people say they would . And uh there was another section on our {disfmarker} on the report for uh L_C_D_ displays , but the datawasn't there , so . I don't actually know what the results for that were ,Project Manager: Mm . Right . Mm .Marketing: so . {vocalsound} May be incrementallyemitting , but yeah .Project Manager: Yeah , I must say that um the uh {disfmarker} I c can't remember what {vocalsound} um f you know phone service I wasusing the other day , but that had sorta speech recognition which worked uh remarkably well , so that is indeed a uh um a thoughtMarketing: And uh{vocalsound} it would cut out the R_S_I_ as well if you {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Project Manager: and it it cuts out uh {disfmarker} I was was gonna say , youcan't get a lot of R_S_I_ ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: j just get jaw ache . Okay , sorry . {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah , um {disfmarker}oh yeah , so possibly the speech recognition is possibly something could add into the design . Oh , I've got some other things I couldn't fit onto this presentation .Um . You see this okay ? Almost {disfmarker} no ? It's {disfmarker} sorry it's a bit {gap} . I'll read out to you . Uh functionality , uh like people's opinions onfunctionality , the relevance to the remote and how often they're used . So um like the power . Using the using the d swi the power switch to switch on T_V_ is ahigh relevance of nine , but it's not frequently used . You see what I mean ?Project Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound}Marketing: Whereas channel selection , which isvery high relevanceProject Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: is used the most . So m we can maybe even start to cut down on {disfmarker} or I was possibly eventhinking of a design that maybe some of the buttons are hidden from everyday use . Maybe like uh a folding ledge or something . So that we can maybe go intothe channel settings and the audio settings ,Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: which are low relevanceProject Manager: {vocalsound} Mm-hmm . I mean{disfmarker}Marketing: and rarely used . And keep the v volume selection and channel selection very easily {disfmarker}User Interface: It could be {disfmarker}oh uh I was just gonna say uh maybe like the flip phones that they use ?Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: Have you seen the new mo mobilephonesProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah .User Interface: that flip out and they have the like texting , and then the numbers on one side ,Marketing: Oh yeah.User Interface: soProject Manager: Mm .User Interface: you could have the most {vocalsound} used buttons on top and flip it out or something .ProjectManager: Hmm , hmm .Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: Yeah , like the one that like slides backProject Manager: Uh . Should we actually bite the bullet here?Marketing: and the buttons are concealed underneath .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: If people really don't use those buttonsto any extent at all um {vocalsound} remove them altogether .Marketing: Just remove them completely ?Project Manager: We we could actually have we couldactually have a remote control with um {disfmarker}User Interface: That might be the {disfmarker}Project Manager: I wonder whether we could get the remotecontrol with no buttons at all if we went for voice recognition , given that um the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Um now the the age structure we were looking at{disfmarker} um I mean w we had usage by age structure , what we didn't have was what proportion of people using remotes were in those particular age groups


Grad G: headphones that aren't so uncomfortable .PhD B: I think {disfmarker} Well , this should be off the record ,Professor D: Hmm .PhD B: but I think{disfmarker}Professor D: Uh , OK .Professor A: We 're not recording yet , are we ?Grad G: Well , I don't think {disfmarker}PhD F: No , uh , that {disfmarker}that wasn't recorded .Grad G: No . Um , I don't think they 're designed to be over your ears .PhD B: Yeah , I know . It just {disfmarker} it really hurts . It givesyou a headache , like if you {disfmarker} On your temple {disfmarker}PhD F: Temple squeezers .PhD B: Yeah .Grad G: Yep .PhD B: Yeah .Professor D: Mm -hmm .Grad G: But I definitely {pause} haven't figured it out .Professor A: Um , Meeting Recorder meeting .PhD F: I guess I have to d stop doing this sigh ofcontentment , you know , after sipping cappuccino or something .PhD B: Yeah , with the {disfmarker} We kno I know .Grad G: " Sip , sigh . "PhD B: We knowexactly how much you have left in your cup .PhD F: I was just noticing a big sProfessor D: So are we recording now ? Is this {disfmarker}PhD E: Yeah .ProfessorD: Oh ! We 're {disfmarker} we 're {disfmarker} we 're live . OK .PhD E: Yeah .Professor D: So , uh , {vocalsound} what were we gonna talk about again ? So wesaid {disfmarker} we said data collection , which we 're doing .PhD B: Were we gonna do digits ?Professor A: OK . Do we do th do you go around the room{pause} and do names or anything ?Grad G: I think that {disfmarker}PhD E: It 's a good idea .Grad G: u usually we 've done that and also we 've s done digitsas well , but I forgot to print any out . So . Besides with this big a group ,PhD B: You can write them on the board , if you want .Professor D: No . I it 'd be evenbetter with this big {disfmarker}Grad G: it would take too much time .PhD E: Which way is {disfmarker}Grad G: Yeah , but it takes too much time .PhD E: Mari?Postdoc H: What {disfmarker}Professor A: What ?Professor D: It 's not that long .PhD E: Y I think your {disfmarker} your {disfmarker} your thing{nonvocalsound} may be pointing in a funny direction . Sort of it 's {disfmarker} it helps if it points sort of upwards .Professor A: Whoops .PhD E: Sort of it{disfmarker} you know .Professor A: Would it {disfmarker} mPhD E: Yeah .Professor D: w uPhD E: So that thing {disfmarker} the little {disfmarker} th that partshould be pointing upwards .Professor A: So {disfmarker} Oh , this thing .PhD E: That 's it . Yeah .Professor A: Yeah .Postdoc H: Otherwise you just get aheartbeats .Professor A: It 's kind of {disfmarker}Professor D: Oh , yeah , the element , yeah , n should be as close to you {disfmarker} your mouth as possible.Professor A: Yeah . OK .PhD E: That 's good . That kind of thing is good .Postdoc H: It 's a {disfmarker}Professor A: This w Alright .PhD E: Yeah .Professor A:How 's that working ?Professor D: Yeah .PhD E: Oh , yeah . It 's a {disfmarker} It 's working .Professor A: OK .Professor D: Alright . So what we had {pause} wasthat we were gonna talk about data collection , and , um , uh , you {disfmarker} you put up there data format ,Professor A: Um .Professor D: and other tasksduring data collection ,Professor A: So , I think the goal {disfmarker} the goal was what can we do {disfmarker} how can you do the data collection differently toget {disfmarker}Professor D: and {disfmarker}Professor A: what can you add to it to get , um , some information that would be helpful for the user - interfacedesign ? Like {disfmarker}Grad G: Uh , especially for querying .Professor A: Especially for querying . So , getting people to do queries afterwards , getting peopleto do summaries afterwards . Um .Postdoc H: Well , one thing that came up in the morning {disfmarker} in the morning was the , um , i uh , if he {disfmarker} I, um {disfmarker} if he has {disfmarker} s I {disfmarker} I don't remember , Mister Lan - Doctor Landry ?Grad G: Landay . James .Postdoc H: La - Landay ? Sohe has , um , these , uh , um , tsk {comment} note - taking things ,Professor A: Mm - hmm .Postdoc H: then that would sort of be a summary which youwouldn't have to solicit . y if {disfmarker} if we were able to {disfmarker} to do that .Professor A: Well , if {disfmarker} if you actually take notes as a summaryas opposed to n take notes in the sense of taking advantage of the time - stamps . So action item or uh , reminder to send this to so - and - so , blah - blah - blah.Postdoc H: Mm - hmm .Professor A: So that wouldn't be a summary . That would just be {disfmarker} that would b relate to the query side .Grad G: But if wehad the CrossPads , we could ask people , you know , if {disfmarker} if something comes up {vocalsound} write it down and mark it {vocalsound} {pause}somehow ,Postdoc H: Mm - hmm .PhD E: Right . I mean , we {disfmarker} because you 'd have several people with these pads , you could collect different things.Grad G: you know .Professor A: Right .PhD E: I mean , cuz I tend to take notes which are summaries . And so , you know {disfmarker}PhD F: I mean , the down- side to that is that he sort of indicated that the , uh , quality of {vocalsound} the handwriting recognition was quite poor .Professor A: Well {disfmarker}Grad G:But that 's alright . I don't think there 'd be so many that you couldn't have someone clean it upProfessor A: So {disfmarker}Grad G: pretty easily .Professor A:Yeah . We also could come up with some code for things that people want to do so that {disfmarker} for frequent things .PhD F: Yeah .Professor A: And the otherthings , people can write whatever they want . I mean , it 's to some extent , uh , for his benefit . So , if that {disfmarker} you know , if {disfmarker} if we justkeep it simple then maybe it 's still useful .PhD F: Right .Grad G: Yeah .Professor D: I just realized we skipped the part that we were saying we were gonna do atthe front where we each said who we were .Postdoc H: The roll call .Professor A: Right . I thought you did that on purpose .Professor D: Roll call .Professor A: Butanyway , shall we do the roll call ?Professor D: No , not a No , I just {disfmarker} My mind went elsewhere . So , uh , yeah , I 'm Morgan , and where am I ? I 'mon channel three .Grad G: And I 'm Adam Janin on channel A .Postdoc H: I 'm Jane Edwards , I think on channel B .PhD E: I 'm Dan Ellis .PhD F: Eric on channelnine .PhD B: Liz , on channel one .Professor A: Mari on channel zero .Professor C: Katrin on channel two .Postdoc H: Should we have used pseudo - names ?Should we do it a second time with pseudo No . {vocalsound} No .Professor D: I 'm Rocky Raccoon {vocalsound} on channel {disfmarker}PhD E: Let me , uh ,turn that off .Grad G: And , uh , do you want to do the P D As and the {pause} P ZPhD E: Oh . PZM nearest , nearest , next nearest . Next one .Postdoc H: Nextnearest .PhD E: Furthest .Grad G: Far .PhD E: PDM - right , PZA - right {disfmarker} PDA - right , PDA - left .Postdoc H: OK .PhD E: Thanks .Grad G: Yeah , andeventually once this room gets a little more organized , the Jimlets {comment} will be mounted under the table , and these guys will be permanently mountedsomehow . You know , probably with double - sided tape , but {disfmarker} So . You {disfmarker} So we won't have to go through that .Professor A: Hmm.Postdoc H: I have a question on protocol in these meetings , which is when you say " Jimlet " and the person listening won't know what that is , sh shou How{disfmarker} how do we get {disfmarker} Is that important information ? You know , the Jimlet {disfmarker} I mean , the box that contains the{disfmarker}Professor D: Well , I mean , suppose we broaden out and go to a range of meetings besides just these internal ones . There 's gonna be lots ofthings that any group of people who know each other have in column {disfmarker} common {comment} that we will not know .Professor A: Right .Postdoc H:Mm - hmm .Professor A: Right .Postdoc H: OK .Professor A: So the there will be jargon that we he There 'll be transcription errors .Postdoc H: Good .Professor D:Yeah .Postdoc H: OK .Professor D: I mean , we {disfmarker} we were originally gonna do this with VLSI design , and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and thereason we didn't go straight to that was because immediately ninety percent of what we heard would be {vocalsound} jargon to {disfmarker} to us . So .Grad G:Well , that was just one of the reasons . But , yeah , definitely .Professor D: Yeah .Postdoc H: OK . Good .Professor D: That {disfmarker} that 's right . There wereothers of course . Yeah .Postdoc H: OK , so we were on the data collection {pause} {comment} and the summary issue .Professor D: Right . We can go back.Professor A: So , uh , u u So , actually there 's kind of three issues . There 's the CrossPad issue . Should we do it and , if so , what 'll we have them do ? Um , dowe have s people write summaries ? Everybody or one person ? And then , do we ask people for how they would query things ? Is that {disfmarker}PhD F: There's {disfmarker} there 're sub - problems in that , in that where {disfmarker} or when do you actually ask them about that ?Professor A: Right .PhD F: I mean ,that was {disfmarker} One thing I was thinking about was is that Dan said earlier that , you know , maybe two weeks later , which is when you would want toquery these things , you might ask them then .Professor A: Right .PhD F: But there 's a problem with that in that if {pause} you 're not {disfmarker} If you don'thave an interactive system , it 's gonna be hard to go beyond sort of the first level of question .Professor A: Right .PhD F: Right . And furth id explore the datafurther .Professor A: Right .PhD F: So .Professor D: There 's {disfmarker} there 's another problemGrad G: And {disfmarker}Professor D: which is , um , wecertainly do want to branch out beyond , uh , uh , recording meetings about Meeting Recorder . And , uh , once we get out beyond our little group , the people 'smotivation factor , uh , reduces enormously . And if we start giving them a bunch of other things to do , how {disfmarker} you know , we {disfmarker} we did nyou know another meeting here for another group and {disfmarker} and , uh , they were fine with it . But if we 'd said , " OK , now all eight of you have to{disfmarker} {vocalsound} have to come up with , uh , the summar "Grad G: Well , I asked them to and none of them did .Professor D: t See ? There we go.Grad G: So , I {disfmarker} I asked them to send me ideas for queries after the meetingPostdoc H: Mm - hmm .Professor A: They {disfmarker}Grad G: and noone ever did .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Grad G: I didn't follow up either .Professor A: Yeah .Grad G: So I didn't track them down and say " please do th do it now " . But, uh , no one spontaneously provided anything .Professor D: I I 'm worried that if you did {disfmarker} even if you did push them into it , it {disfmarker} it{disfmarker} it might be semi - random ,Professor A: Right .Professor D: uh , as opposed to what you 'd really want to know if you were gonna use this thing.PhD E: Right .Professor A: OK .Grad G: I just don't know how else to generate the queries other than getting an expert to actually listen to the meeting and say "that 's important , that might be a query " .Postdoc H: Tsk . Well , there is this other thing which y which you were alluding to earlier , which is , um , there arecertain key words like , you know , " action item " and things like that , which could be used in , uh , t to some degree finding the structure .Professor A: Yeah