Project Manager: {vocalsound} Alright , yeah . {gap} crack on {gap} . Okay so we'll start off with a quick overview of the minutes . I think to sum up the lastmeeting , would be to say um the requirements that we've um set out . Those are we were going to go for what seemed to be a fairly minimal design based on uha small joystick , {vocalsound} L_C_D_ and a couple of other buttons for navigation um with power being I suppose one of the main single purpose buttons . Umwe were also going to use {gap} novelty of being able to locate the remote control again via a small transmitter with any luck , the idea to try and separate usand also because of the minimal design um looks like we'll be able to be fairly adventurous in the actual physical shape of our remote control with any luck . Umthat pretty much sums up the last one . So we'll just crack on , um like to maybe start with the Industrial Designer if it's possible .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound} Uh uh okay .Project Manager: Um uh the con today is the concep today .Industrial Designer: I'll just {disfmarker}Project Manager: This uh meetingis the conceptual design phase and is um {disfmarker} Sorry about this . {gap} . And is to cover things like um what the parts might be made of , um , can we uhoutsource these from elsewhere , um will we have to construct any items ourselves ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh I have a presentation {gap} I justsaved it in the uh the folder .Project Manager: Yeah , okay well I'll just uh I'll load it up then . Um {vocalsound} . Which one do yIndustrial Designer: Uh .ProjectManager: Oh , interface concept ?User Interface: Yeah , that's me .Project Manager: That's you . We've got trend watching , that's you .Industrial Designer: It'suh {disfmarker} Components design .Project Manager: Components design .Industrial Designer: {gap} .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: Alright .{vocalsound} So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Uh . The case uh le that's what I wrote first of all , could be plastic our plastic . Uh but later on {gap} we found outthat um it can be rubber as well , or titanium or even wood . So uh we decide what it's gonna be . Probably plastic . Uh we need the infra-red transmitter . Getthat off the shelf . Uh joystick we'll probably if we're gonna use it , um could be plastic w or rubber even as well . Um {vocalsound} if you go on to the next slide .Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} If you go on to f uh findings , it's like two or three slides down .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: Right . So , this iswhat I found we can use . Uh three different types of batteries . Um can either use a hand dynamo , or the kinetic type ones , you know that they use in watches ,or else uh a solar powered one .Project Manager: Okay . Now ,Industrial Designer: Um .Project Manager: the kinetic one , we've {disfmarker} 'cause that's theones where like you {disfmarker} the movement causes it .Marketing: Cost is {disfmarker} Yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: Umthe bat uh the battery for a a watch wouldn't require a lot of power , would be my one query .User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: Is a kinetic one going to beable to supply enough power ?User Interface: There's also a watch moves around a great deal more .Project Manager: Do you think ?Industrial Designer: Uh.Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: WIndustrial Designer: Yeah , I don't think it would . Um . And solar cells , I dunno about that .Marketing: {gap}yeah .Industrial Designer: Uh . We should probably just use conventional batteries . Um , just like in usual remote controls .Project Manager: Which I suppose aswell would allow us to go off the shelf again , you'd say ?Industrial Designer: Um . Yeah . Um . {vocalsound} And these are three different types of {disfmarker}or two different types {disfmarker} three different types of shapes you can have . Uh one is a flat one , and then more original ones are single curved one or onewith a double curved . Um {vocalsound} the materials are tha there as you can see , but uh you can't have a titanium one for a double curved ,Project Manager:{vocalsound}Marketing: Titanium , the really strong metal , titanium ?Industrial Designer: uh which would be {disfmarker} Yeah ,Marketing: Is it not also it'sexpensive ?Industrial Designer: and light . Uh , i think so as well , yeah .Project Manager: Um . Um .Industrial Designer: They make mountain bikes out of that ,don't they . So it's really light as well .Project Manager: Curious . Um , I don't know if you'd be able to off the top of your head or not , the single curved anddouble curved , would you be able to give an example ?Industrial Designer: Um . {vocalsound} T yeah .Project Manager: Um could you maybe draw something ?I you don't doesn't have to be perfect , it's just 'cause I'm not quite sure if I understand the difference between the two .Industrial Designer: Uh . Well for acurved , well I was thinking to {disfmarker} f for to sit in your {disfmarker} the palm of your hand . Uh maybe like this , with the uh joy pad here . Joystick here .And maybe um an okay button around here , so that the thumb can uh use it quite easily . Um I don't exactly {vocalsound} {disfmarker} Double curved . Itprobably means {disfmarker} this is probably double curved . Uh whereas a single curved would be like that . I guess . Or not necessarily .Project Manager: So itmight literally just be {disfmarker}Marketing: Two curves {gap} .Project Manager: okay .Industrial Designer: Yeah like that . Whereas this is two curves . Um{vocalsound} so I guess that's what they mean by uh double curve .Project Manager: Alright .Industrial Designer: Um which obviously {disfmarker} it looksbetter than the single curve , but uh you can't have it in titanium , which is uh a nice material . {vocalsound} UhProject Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: andfor the buttons , um it can have the scroll wheel which they use in mouses for com P_C_s . Uh but um it requires a more expensive chip to use , and if you wannause L_C_D_ it's even more expensive . So you have to decide , there's trade-offs there . Um {vocalsound} if you want the buttons to be {disfmarker} oh yeah , ifyou have a double curve uh control and it's rubber , then you have these rubber buttons as well . But {vocalsound} you're gonna ha I reckon you're gonna haveto have uh key a number keypad anyway for the amount of channels these days . You wouldn't want to just have to scroll through all the channels to get to theone you want . You wanna enter just the number of it , if you know it . So um I reckon we're gonna have to have a number keypad anyway . Do you think?Project Manager: Okay , that was definitely something we can talk about . Um so you've got a little bit about the the chip that we might require as well?Industrial Designer: Yeah . So , depends where gonna spend the money if you want the f fancy L_C_D_ display .Project Manager: Um , do you have any idea sofar , like when we're saying that we'd need an advanced chip for an L_C_D_ , does that in shoot the cost up by a drastic amount ? Or ?Marketing: Need anadvanced chip for the L_C_D_ . Is that {disfmarker} did I {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well I think compared to say just pressing {gap} buttons .IndustrialDesigner: Yep .Marketing: Advanced , like three eight six advance .Project Manager: {gap} if you press a button that sends a certain transmission through theinfra-red , whereas I think if we're controlling the L_C_D_ we definitely require a much more powerful chip . Just compared to the chip you would use for pushingbuttons I think is the the point being made .Marketing: Okay . Okay , sure .User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: If I've not over-stepped . Yeah ?IndustrialDesigner: Yeah iProject Manager: Okay , um should I go on , or go back ?Industrial Designer: Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm , if we only havetwelve Pounds fifty , twelve Euros , not even twelve Pounds . Twelve Euros , what's that , like eight pounds or something like that , nine Pounds ?ProjectManager: Well we'd also be relying on the um the bulk buying in producement and such . I assume .Marketing: Okay , that's good point .Project Manager: Wehave to look into the costs of those . So , sorry .Industrial Designer: Uh the previous slides just explain what's in the internal components of the uh remotecontrol . If you go to the one before that uh so it just says what it does , translate the key press into an infra-red signal and this is received by the T_V_ . Uh thechip just needs to detect the signal or detect the key press and then uh it'll send it to the tr the amplifier .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: And uhthen the next slide just shows how the uh copper wires uh interact with the buttons , the rubber buttons , uh to uh get sent to the chip . So that's just how thecontrol works inside . Um we have to decide on what buttons we're gonna use .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: {gap} .Project Manager: Um . {gap} .So in the information that you've been supplied , how feasible would you say that the idea of using an L_C_D_ looks ?Industrial Designer: Um {disfmarker} Ithink we can do it if {vocalsound} uh we use conventional batteries and not have solar cells or kinetic . Um and then maybe use single curved uh case . Becausewe might need it to be curved for the uh thumb to use the joyst joystick easily . Um and then you'll need the advanced chip obviously for the L_C_D_ .ProjectManager: Um I mean that sounds like quite a good requirement to me . Um conventional battery would seem to make sense .User Interface: Mm-hmm .ProjectManager: Um I'm not sure if there's any cost differences between single and double curved and I'm {disfmarker} I don't know about anybody else , but plastic orrubber as a traditional form of casing would seem to be a good way forward ? {gap} .User Interface: Mm . Um I'm actually gonna be bold and go oo go straightfor rubber um for reasons I'll go into uh in more detail .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: I also have a preference for rubber .Project Manager: Okay , well um{disfmarker}Marketing: Based on my research .Project Manager: Yeah , well will we move on to user interface , and {disfmarker}User Interface: {gap} .ProjectManager: yeah ? Um sorry ,User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: as long as {disfmarker} were you ? Yeah . Okay .Industrial Designer: Yep I'm finished .ProjectManager: Um {gap} and d d d interface concept .User Interface: Yep . Now I'm gonna have to work between the uh the slides and the uh {vocalsound} and thewhite boardProject Manager: Yeah .User Interface: 'cause I actually I have some fairly concrete things this time . Uh um I was given a an H_T_M_L_ file givingum various ideas from uh from other previous remote control designs , and pretty much decided to just dump them all . I wasn't very impressed by them andthey didn't seem to re uh nothing I saw seemed to meet the sorts of design specifications that we're going for today . Um so what I ra rather than looking at otherremotes , uh ra oomp be better to simply look at the human hand . Um and try and f um and try and figure out a way of laying out the elements we've alreadydecided on , um so that if r a if {vocalsound} so that the finger is e each finger or thumb is wherever it needs to be already . Um so uh next slide , if you please .Um and what we've basically decided on was the the um the joy uh the joystick , two function buttons and the L_C_D_ , just keep it paired down to the absolute


PhD E: OK .Professor B: OK , so {pause} We {disfmarker} we had a meeting with , uh {disfmarker} with Hynek , um , in {disfmarker} in which , uh , uh , Suniland Stephane , uh {vocalsound} summarized where they were and {disfmarker} and , uh , talked about where we were gonna go . So that {disfmarker} thathappened sort of mid - week . Uh .PhD E: D did {disfmarker} did you guys get your code pushed together ?PhD D: Oh , yeah . Yeah . It 's {disfmarker} it 's{disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it was updated yesterday ,PhD E: Cool .PhD D: right ?PhD A: Yeah .PhD D: Yeah .PhD A: You probably received the mail .PhD E:Oh , right , I saw {disfmarker} I saw the note .PhD A: Yeah .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor B: What was the update ?PhD A: What was the update ? So there is ththen {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} all the new features that go in .Professor B: Yeah .PhD A: The , um , noise suppression , the re - synthesis of speech aftersuppression . These are the {disfmarker}PhD E: Is the , um {disfmarker} the CVS mechanism working {pause} well ?PhD A: Yeah .PhD E: Are {disfmarker} arepeople , uh , up at OGI grabbing code uh , via that ?PhD D: Uh , I don't think {disfmarker} I don't think {disfmarker}PhD E: Or {disfmarker} ?PhD A: I don'tknow if they use it , but .PhD D: Yeah , I I don't think anybody up there is like {pause} working on it right now .PhD E: Uh - huh . Mmm .Professor B: I think itmore likely that what it means is that when Sunil is up there {vocalsound} he will grab it .PhD D: Yeah . Yeah . So right now nobody 's working on Aurora there.PhD E: Yeah .Professor B: They 're {disfmarker} Yeah . They 're working on a different task .PhD E: I see . I see .PhD D: Yeah .PhD E: OK .Professor B: But what'll happen is {disfmarker} is he 'll go back up there and , uh , Pratibha will come back from {disfmarker} from , uh , the east coast . Uh .PhD E: Mm - hmm.Professor B: And , uh {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and I guess actually , uh , after Eurospeech for a little bit , uh , he 'll go up there too . So , actuallyeverybody {vocalsound} who 's working on it {comment} will be up there for at least a little while . So they 'll remotely access it {vocalsound} from there .PhDE: So has {disfmarker} Has anybody tried remotely accessing the CVS using , uh , uh , SSH ?Professor B: Yeah . PhD A: Um , I don't know if Hari did that or{disfmarker} You dPhD D: I {comment} can actually do it today . I mean , I can just log into {disfmarker}PhD E: Have you tried it yet ?PhD D: No , I didn't . So II 'll try it today .PhD E: OK .Professor B: Good idea .PhD A: Actually I {disfmarker} I tried wh while {disfmarker} when I installed the {pause} repository , I triedfrom Belgium .Professor B: Yeah .PhD D: Yeah .PhD A: I logged in there and I tried {pause} to import {disfmarker}PhD E: Yeah ? It worked good ?PhD A: Yeah ,it works .PhD E: Oh , good !PhD A: But it 's {disfmarker} So , right now it 's the mechanism with SSH .PhD D: Oh .PhD E: Great !PhD A: I don't {pause} s I didn'tset up {disfmarker} You can also set up a CVS server {pause} on a new port . It 's like well {pause} uh , a main server , or d You can do a CVS server .PhD E:Yeah . Right . Then that 's using the CVS password mechanism and all that ,PhD A: But . Yeah , right .PhD E: right ?PhD A: But I didn't do that because I was notsure about {pause} security problems . I {disfmarker} I would have to {disfmarker}PhD E: So w when you came in from Belgian {disfmarker} {comment}Belgium , using SSH , uh , was it asking you for your own {pause} password into ICSI ? So if yo you can only do that if you have an account at ICSI ?PhD A:Right . Yeah .PhD E: OK .PhD A: Yeah .PhD E: Cuz there is an {disfmarker} a way to set up anonymous CVS right ?PhD A: Yeah , you ha in this way you ca youhave to set up a CVS server but then , yeah , you can access it .PhD E: So that {disfmarker} Oh , OK .PhD A: you {disfmarker} you can set up priorities .PhD E:So the anonymous mechanism {disfmarker}PhD A: You can access them and mostly if you {disfmarker} if y the set the server is set up like this .PhD E: OK .Because a lot of the open source stuff works with anonymous CVS and I 'm just wondering {disfmarker} Uh , I mean , for our transcripts we may want to do that.PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor B: Yeah .PhD E: Uh .Professor B: Yeah , for this stuff I don't think we 're {pause} quite up to that . I mean , we 're still so much indevelopment .PhD E: Mm - hmm . Yeah ,Professor B: We want to have just the insiders .PhD E: yeah , yeah . Oh , I wasn't suggesting for this . I 'm {pause}thinking of the Meeting Recorder {comment} stuffProfessor B: Yeah .PhD E: but . Yeah . OK . Cool .Professor B: Yeah . So , uh {disfmarker}PhD E: What 's new?Professor B: Well , I mean , I think maybe the thing to me might be {disfmarker} I me I 'm sure you 've just been working on {disfmarker} on , uh , details ofthat since the meeting , right ? And so {disfmarker}PhD A: Mmm , since the meeting , well , I {disfmarker} I 've been {disfmarker} I 've been train training anew VAD and a new {pause} feature net .Professor B: That was {disfmarker} that was Tuesday . OK .PhD A: So they should be ready . Um .Professor B: But Iguess maybe the thing {disfmarker} since you weren't {disfmarker} yo you guys weren't at that {disfmarker} that meeting , might be just {disfmarker} just to ,um , sort of recap , uh , the {disfmarker} the conclusions of the meeting .PhD A: Mm - hmm .PhD E: Oh , great .Professor B: So .PhD E: You 're talking about themeeting with Hynek ?Professor B: Yeah . Cuz that was sort of , uh {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we 'd sort of been working up to that , that {disfmarker} that ,uh , he would come here this week and {disfmarker} and we would sort of {disfmarker}PhD E: Uh - huh .Professor B: Since he 's going out of town like now , andI 'm going out town in a couple weeks , uh , and time is marching , sort of , given all the mu many wonderful things we could be working on , what {disfmarker}what will we actually focus on ?PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor B: And , uh {disfmarker} and what do we freeze ? And , you know , what do we {disfmarker} ? So ,um . I mean , this {pause} software that these guys created was certainly a {disfmarker} a key part . So then there 's something central and there aren't at leasta bunch of different versions going off in {disfmarker} in ways that {pause} differ {pause} trivially . Uh , um , and , um ,PhD E: Yeah . That 's {disfmarker} that's nice .Professor B: and then within that , I guess the idea was to freeze a certain set of options for now , to run it , uh , a particular way , and decide on whatthings are gonna be experimented with , as opposed to just experimenting with everything . So keep a certain set of things constant . So , um . Uh , maybedescribe roughly what {disfmarker} what we are keeping constant for now , or {disfmarker} ?PhD A: Yeah . Well . So we 've been working like six weeks on{disfmarker} on the noise compensation and we end up with something that seems reasonable . Um .PhD E: Are you gonna use {disfmarker} which of the twotechniques ?PhD A: So finally it 's {disfmarker} it 's , um , Wiener filtering on FFT bins . And it uses , uh , two steps , smoothing of the transfer function , the firststep , that 's along time , which use recursion . And {vocalsound} after this step there is a further smoothing along frequency , which use a sliding window oftwenty FFT bins . Mmm . And , uh {disfmarker}PhD E: So this is on the {disfmarker} uh , before any mel scaling has been done ?PhD A: Yeah , yeah .PhD E: Thisis {disfmarker}PhD A: It was {disfmarker}Professor B: This {disfmarker} this smoothing is done on the estimate , um , of what you 're going to subtract ? Or onthe thing that has already had something subtracted ?PhD A: Yeah . Uh , {vocalsound} it 's on the transfer function . So {disfmarker}Professor B: Oh , it 's on thetransfer function for the Wiener filter .PhD A: Yeah .Professor B: Yeah , OK .PhD A: Yeah , so basically we tried {vocalsound} different configuration within thisidea . We tried u u applying this on mel bands , having spectral subtraction instead of wiener filtering . Um . Well , finally we end up with {pause} thisconfiguration that works , uh , quite well . So we are going to fix this for the moment and work on the other aspects of {vocalsound} the whole system .PhD E:Mm - hmm .PhD A: So {disfmarker}Professor B: Actually , let me int eh , Dave isn't here to talk about it , but let me just interject . This module , in principle , i Imean , you would know whether it 's {vocalsound} true in fact , is somewhat independent from the rest of it . I mean , because you {disfmarker} you re -synthesize speech , right ?PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor B: So , um . Uh , well you don't {disfmarker} I guess you don't re - synthesize speech , but you could{disfmarker}PhD A: We {disfmarker} we do not foProfessor B: Uh , but you could .PhD A: Well {disfmarker} well , we do , but we don't {disfmarker} don't re -synthesize . In {disfmarker} in the program we don't re - synthesize and then re - analyze once again . We just use the clean FFT bins .Professor B: But you havea re - synthesized thing that you {disfmarker} that 's an {disfmarker} an option here .PhD A: This is an option that {disfmarker} then you can {disfmarker} Yeah.Professor B: Yeah , I gu I guess my point is that , um , i in some of the work he 's doing in reverberation , one of the things that we 're finding is that , uh , it 's{disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} for the {disfmarker} for an artificial situation , we can just deal with the reverberation and his techniques work really well . Butfor the real situation uh , problem is , is that you don't just have reverberation , you have reverberation in noise . And if you don't include that in the model , itdoesn't work very well . So in fact it might be a very nice thing to do , to just take the noise removal part of it and put that in front of what he 's looking at . And ,uh , generate new files or whatever , and {disfmarker} and , uh , uh {disfmarker} and then do the reverberation part .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor B: So it 's{disfmarker}PhD D: Mmm .Professor B: Anyway .PhD E: So Dave hasn't {pause} tried that yet ?Professor B: No , no . He 's {disfmarker} I mean , ePhD E: Iguess he 's busy with {disfmarker}Professor B: Yeah , prelims , right .Grad C: Pre - prelim hell .Professor B: Yeah .PhD E: Yeah .Professor B: So .PhD E: Yeah.Professor B: Uh , but {disfmarker} but , you know , that 'll {disfmarker} uh , it 's clear that we , uh {disfmarker} we are not {disfmarker} with the real case thatwe 're looking at , we can't just look at reverberation in isolation because the interaction between that and noise is {disfmarker} is considerable . And that 's Imean , in the past we 've looked at , uh , and this is hard enough , the interaction between channel effects and {disfmarker} and , uh {disfmarker} and additivenoise , uh , so convolutional effects and {disfmarker} and additive effects . And that 's hard enough . I mean , I don't think we really {disfmarker} I mean , we 'retrying to deal with that . In a sense that 's what we 're trying to deal with in this Aurora task . And we have , uh , the , uh , uh , LDA stuff that in principle is doingsomething about convolutional effects . And we have the noise suppression that 's doing something about noise . Uh , even that 's hard enough . And{disfmarker} and the on - line normalization as well , in that s category . i i There 's all these interactions between these two and that 's part of why these guys


PhD B: We 're , I mean {pause} we {disfmarker} We didn't have a house before .Professor D: Yeah . Yeah .PhD E: OK .Professor D: We 're on again ? OK .PhD A:Mm - hmm . That is really great .Grad H: Yeah , so if {pause} uh {disfmarker} {pause} So if anyone hasn't signed the consent form , please do so .PhD A: That's terrific .PhD B: Oh , yeah !Professor D: OKGrad H: The new consent form . The new and improved consent form .PhD A: Now you won't be able to walk or rideyour bike , huh ?Professor D: OK .Postdoc F: Uh .PhD B: Right .Professor D: OK .Grad H: And uh , shall I go ahead and do some digits ?Professor D: Uh , we weregonna do that at the end , remember ?Grad H: OK , whatever you want .Professor D: Yeah . Just {disfmarker} just to be consistent , from here on in at least ,that {disfmarker} {pause} that we 'll do it at the end .PhD B: The new consent form .Grad H: It 's uh {disfmarker} {pause} Yeah , it doesn't matter . OK.Professor D: OK Um Well , it ju I mean it might be that someone here has to go ,Postdoc F: Testing , one , two , three .Professor D: and {disfmarker} Right ?That was {disfmarker} that was sort of the point . So , uh {pause} I had asked actually anybody who had any ideas for an agenda {pause} to send it to me andno one did . So ,Grad H: So we all forgot .Professor D: Uh ,Postdoc F: From last time I wanted to {disfmarker} Uh {pause} {pause} The {disfmarker} An iss uh{pause} one topic from last time .Professor D: Right , s OK , so one item for an agenda is uh {pause} Jane has some uh {vocalsound} uh some research to talkabout , research issues . Um {pause} and {pause} Uh , Adam has some short research issues .Grad H: And I have some {pause} short research issues .ProfessorD: Um , I have a {pause} list of things that I think were done over the last three months I was supposed to {vocalsound} {vocalsound} send off , uh {pause}and , um {pause} I {disfmarker} I sent a note about it to uh {disfmarker} to Adam and Jane but I think I 'll just run through it {pause} also and see if someonethinks it 's inaccurate or {pause} uh insufficient .PhD A: A list that you have to send off to who ?Professor D: Uh , to uh uh , IBM .PhD A: Oh .Professor D: OK .They 're , you know {disfmarker}PhD E: Professor D: So . Um , So , uh {pause} so , I 'll go through that . Um , {pause} And , Anything else ? {pause} anyonewants to talk about ?PhD A: What about the , um {disfmarker} your trip , yesterday ?Professor D: No . OK . Um . Sort of off - topic I guess .PhD A: Oh , OK.Professor D: Cuz that 's {pause} Cuz that was all {disfmarker} all about the , uh {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I can chat with you about that{pause} off - line . That 's another thing . Um , And , Anything else ? Nothing else ? Uh , there 's a {disfmarker} I mean , there is a {disfmarker} {pause} a , um{pause} uh {pause} telephone call tomorrow , {pause} which will be a conference call {pause} that some of us are involved in {pause} for uh a possibleproposal . Um , we 'll talk {disfmarker} we 'll talk about it next week if {disfmarker} if something {disfmarker}Grad H: Do you want me to {pause} be there forthat ? I noticed you C C ' ed me , but I wasn't actually a recipient . I didn't quite know what to make of that .Professor D: Uh Well , we 'll talk {disfmarker} talkabout that after our meeting . OK .Grad H: OK .Professor D: Uh , OK . So it sounds like the {disfmarker} the three main things that we have to talk about are , uhthis list , uh Jane and {disfmarker} Jane and Adam have some research items , and , other than that , anything , {pause} as usual , {pause} anything goesbeyond that . OK , uh , Jane , since {disfmarker} since you were sort of cut off last time why don't we start with yours , make sure we get to it .Postdoc F: OK , it's {disfmarker} it 's very {pause} eh {disfmarker} it 's {pause} very brief , I mean {disfmarker} just let me {disfmarker} just hand these out . Oops .Grad H: Isthis the same as the email or different ?PhD C: Thanks .Postdoc F: It 's slightly different . I {disfmarker} {pause} basically the same .Grad H: OK .PhD A: Sameidea ?Postdoc F: But , same idea . So , if you 've looked at this you 've seen it before , so {pause} Basically , {vocalsound} um {pause} as you know , uh{pause} part of the encoding {pause} includes a mark that indicates {pause} an overlap . It 's not indicated {pause} with , um {pause} uh , tight precision , it 'sjust indicated that {disfmarker} OK , so , It 's indicated to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} so the people know {pause} what parts of sp which {disfmarker} whichstretches of speech were in the clear , versus being overlapped by others . So , I {pause} used this mark and , um {pause} and , uh {pause} uh , {pause}divided the {disfmarker} I wrote a script {pause} which divides things into individual minutes , {pause} of which we ended up with forty {pause} five , and alittle bit . And , uh {pause} you know , minute zero , of course , is the first minute up to {pause} sixty seconds .PhD C: OK .Postdoc F: And , um {pause} Whatyou can see is the number of overlaps {pause} and then {pause} to the right , {pause} whether they involve two speakers , three speakers , or more than threespeakers . And , {pause} um {pause} and , what I was looking for sp sp specifically was the question of {pause} whether they 're distributed evenly throughoutor whether they 're {pause} bursts of them . Um . And {pause} it looked to me as though {disfmarker} uh , you know {disfmarker} y this is just {disfmarker}{pause} eh {disfmarker} eh , this would {disfmarker} this is not statistically {pause} verified , {pause} but it {pause} did look to me as though there are burststhroughout , rather than being {pause} localized to a particular region . The part down there , where there 's the maximum number of {disfmarker} {pause} of ,um {pause} overlaps is an area where we were discussing {pause} {vocalsound} whether or not it would be useful to indi to s to {pause} code {pause} stress ,{pause} uh , sentence stress {pause} as possible indication of , uh {pause} information retrieval . So it 's like , {pause} you know , rather , {pause} livelydiscussion there .Professor D: What was {disfmarker} what 's the {disfmarker} the parenthesized stuff {pause} that says , like {disfmarker} e the first one thatsays six overlaps and then two point eight ?Postdoc F: Oh , th {vocalsound} {pause} That 's the per cent .Professor D: Mmm .Postdoc F: So , six is , uh {pause}two point eight percent {pause} of the total number of overlaps in the {pause} session .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Professor D: Ah .PhD C: Mm - hmm .Postdoc F: Atthe very end , this is when people were , {pause} you know , packing up to go basically , there 's {pause} this final stuff , I think we {disfmarker} {pause} Idon't remember where the digits {pause} fell . I 'd have to look at that . But {pause} the final three there are no overlaps at all . And {pause} couple times there{pause} are not .PhD E: Mm - hmm .Postdoc F: So , i it seems like it goes through bursts {pause} but , um {pause} that 's kind of it .PhD E: Mm - hmm .PostdocF: Now , {pause} Another question is {pause} is there {disfmarker} are there {pause} individual differences in whether you 're likely to be overlapped with or tooverlap with others . And , again {pause} I want to emphasize this is just one {pause} particular {pause} um {disfmarker} {pause} one particular meeting , andalso there 's been no statistical testing of it all , but {pause} I , um {pause} I took the coding of {pause} the {disfmarker} I , you know , my {disfmarker} I hadthis script {pause} figure out , um {pause} who {pause} was the first speaker , who was the second speaker involved in a two - person overlap , I didn't look atthe ones involving three or more . And , um {pause} {pause} this is how it breaks down in the individual cells of {pause} who tended to be overlapping mostoften with who {disfmarker} who else , and {pause} if you look at the marginal totals , which is the ones on the right side and across the bottom , you get{pause} the totals for an individual . So , {vocalsound} um {pause} If you {pause} look at the bottom , those are the , um {pause} numbers of overlaps inwhich {pause} um {pause} Adam was involved as the person doing the overlapping and if you look {disfmarker} I 'm sorry , but you 're o alphabetical , that 'swhy I 'm choosing you And then if you look across the right , {pause} then {pause} that 's where he was the {pause} person who was the sp first speaker in thepair {pause} and got overlap overlapped with by somebody .PhD A: Hmm !PhD E: Mm - hmm .Postdoc F: And , {pause} then if you look down in the summarytable , {pause} then you see that , um {pause} th they 're differences in {pause} whether a person got overlapped with or {pause} overlapped by .Grad H: Isthis uh {pause} just raw counts or is it {disfmarker}Postdoc F: Raw counts .Grad H: So it would be interesting to see how much each person spoke .PhD B: Mm -hmm .PhD C: Yeah .PhD E: Yeah {vocalsound} YeahPostdoc F: Yes , very true {disfmarker} very trueGrad H: Normalized to how much {disfmarker}Postdoc F: itwould be good to normalize with respect to that . Now on the table I did {pause} take one step toward , uh {pause} away from the raw frequencies by putting ,{pause} uh {pause} percentages . So that the percentage of time {pause} of the {disfmarker} of the times that a person spoke , {pause} what percentage{pause} eh , w so . Of the times a person spoke and furthermore was involved in a two two - person overlap , {vocalsound} {vocalsound} what percentage ofthe time were they the overlapper and what percent of the time were they th the overlappee ? And there , it looks like you see some differences , um , {pause}that some people tend to be overlapped {pause} with more often than they 're overlapped , but , of course , uh i e {vocalsound} this is just one meeting ,{pause} uh {pause} there 's no statistical testing involved , and that would be {pause} required for a {disfmarker} for a finding {pause} of {pause} any{pause} kind of {pause} scientific {pause} reliability .Professor D: S so , i it would be statistically incorrect to conclude from this that Adam talked too much orsomething .Grad H: No {disfmarker} no actually , that would be actually statistically correct ,Professor D: Yeah , yeah .Postdoc F: No , no , no .PhD E: Yeah ,yeah . Yeah , yeah .Grad H: butPostdoc F: Yeah , that 's right .Professor D: Yeah . Excuse me .Postdoc F: That 's right . And I 'm {pause} you know , I 'm{disfmarker} I don't see a point of singling people out ,Professor D: B I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I rather enjoyed it , but {disfmarker} but thisPostdoc F: now, this is a case where obviously {disfmarker}PhD A: But the numbers speak for themselves .PhD E: He 's {disfmarker} Yeah , yeah , yeah .Postdoc F: Well ,{vocalsound} you know , it 's like {disfmarker} I 'm not {disfmarker} I 'm not saying on the tape who did {pause} better or worseGrad H: Yes , that 's right , soyou don't nee OK .Professor D: Sure .Postdoc F: because {pause} I don't think that it 's {disfmarker} I {pause} you know , and {disfmarker} and th here 's acase where of course , human subjects people would say be sure that you anonymize the results , {pause} and {disfmarker} and , so , might as well do this.Professor D: Yeah .Grad H: Yeah , when {disfmarker} this is what {disfmarker} This is actually {disfmarker} when Jane sent this email first , is what caused me


Project Manager: Alright ? Alright . Thank you for coming to this third meeting of the uh uh design group . Um I think we uh made some definite progress at thelast one um and come up with some interesting uh uh w suggestions for our our new remote control . Um I'll again very quickly uh just present some notes ofthat meeting . Um {vocalsound} the the the problem with existing remote controls , we felt , was that they're ugly um and that people are prepared to pay apremium for something better . Um they've got lots of buttons on them that uh people don't use and find difficult to learn . Um and people lose them . And{vocalsound} We we thought that f for our our new uh uh remote control that everybody will want to rush out and buy , um {vocalsound} that we're{disfmarker} {vocalsound} we should look at speech recognition rather than r rather than buttons , and that if we have any buttons they should be very few ofthem and only for those functions that are actually identified that that people use . That {disfmarker} um {vocalsound} we want to go for uh a long lastingbattery that we gua we guarantee for the life of the uh uh the product and a shape that will be instantly recognisable , A_ um as uh a trendy remote control , andand B_ as uh a Real Reaction product . So that w uh when people are uh happy with that , they will they will want to buy uh everything else from us . Uh{disfmarker} {vocalsound} Okay . So again um , I'll {disfmarker} we'll have the three three presentations from the the the three of you and then uh we'll we'llmake a a final a final uh decision . Um and the the decisions that we need to to make today , finally , are um what energy source we want to use , whether i it ispractical to use uh um a a a long lasting one . And uh I I think our discussion was around the fact that uh if we're gonna go for uh a long lasting power supply ,then basically it's uh sealed for life and uh if anybody does manage to run one down , we'll we'll give them another one . And uh it it'll be uh , you know ,prominently displayed as part of the th the advertising literature that it's um um , you know , for life , guaranteed for life . Um {vocalsound} now the the theinternal chip um {disfmarker} and uh this is where I need uh uh Kate's expert adviceIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: and given that{vocalsound} th this has to to go to market as quickly as possible um d d do we go for a custom designed chip ? Or or do we buy one off the shelf and andprogramme it ourselves ? Uh I mean I'm I'm I'm n not an expert on these things , but presumably , there must be loads of 'em already on the market that we canmodify .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: But uh that that's uh that's your area of expertise . And then the uh , you know , the the overalldesign of the case uh is is is Kendra's field and uhUser Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} we we had somediscussions last time as as to uh how we might go forward and we'll we'll finalise those uh da today . Um and thi this is all linked in with the the the user interface, whether we p um {vocalsound} go for voice , buttons , or or a bit of both . Uh and then uh , you know , f for the next meeting Kate will be looking at the the thes the look , feel and design , Kendra the uh ho how the the user actually uses it and and Andrew of course the the product evaluation . And uh Kate and Kendrawill be producing a a model for us to uh to look at .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh so , if if we can have thethe three presentations again please , and uh um p perhaps you'd like to start uh k .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay . Um {disfmarker}Project Manager:Kate . Oh I'm sorry , oh sorry .Industrial Designer: Um p there we go .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} 'Kay , I'll just be talkingabout the components design . And {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Okay , basically I just uh looked at what exactly do remotes do . Uh basically they wait for you topress a key or give a voice command and then this is translated uh into uh light signals which are then seen by the T_V_ . Uh the materials we're gonna need tolook at {disfmarker} uh the two big ones are the integrated circuit chip and the battery and the in integrated circuit chip uh works in conjunction with a a diodetransistor or resonator , uh two more resistors and a capacitor and the battery works in conjunction with a resistor and a capacitor . Um . {vocalsound} Uhbasically what happens is you'll press a number or give a voice command and this creates a a connection within the the remote that allows the chip {disfmarker}the chip then senses this connection and produces a signal in a Morse code format . This signal's sent to the transistor which amplifies it and then sends it on tothe light emitting diode and uh {disfmarker} which is then trai changed into a infrared light which is sent to the T_V_ and sort of seen by the T_V_ and which uhchanges the channels . {vocalsound} Um . Oh . {vocalsound} Uh cool . {vocalsound} Uh so as for how we should end up uh using this in our remote uh t coupleof main questions are the buttons . Uh y the fewer buttons you have , I guess the fewer internal connections and internal codes you're gonna need . Um howeveruh to n not have buttons or to use a voice commands instead of buttons might make these connections more difficult and uh raise the production cost . That'ssomething we should think about . Also we have to work within the company constraints , and the company has informed me via email that uh they're experts atpushbuttons and that seems to be the most uh cost-effective way of producing it . Um also with battery connections the company has some limits on the batterieswe can use , so I was thinking perhaps a combination of solar cells with a back-up basic battery and somehow between the combination of that two we might beable to come up with something that uh will last the the lifetime or the five to ten years and we could still keep that original idea . {vocalsound} Um we also needto look at the chips , uh v custom-designed versus off the shelf , and the custom-designed will give us much more flexibility and enable us to incorporate thevoice function that we all uh seem to have agreed upon . Um , however that's gonna cost more , but uh the off the shelf is gonna be uh cheaper and it's gonna be{disfmarker} allow us to produce it quicker and get out there faster , but it's going to be less flexible with the features , especially things like uh voice activation ,which haven't really been used much on remotes , so there's not really chips out there that would be easy to uh to convert ,Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay,Industrial Designer: so if we were uh definitely gonna go with the the voice option we'd probably have to design um our own chip . {vocalsound} And that prettymuch sums it up .Project Manager: so how um {disfmarker} sorry , can you uh just put that one back up again , please ? Um .Industrial Designer: Mm . Oh yep ,sorry . {vocalsound} Yep .Project Manager: Uh d d d {vocalsound} okay , I mean uh inevitably a b a custom design chip is gonna be more expensive . Do we dowe know uh by how much ?Industrial Designer: Mm . {vocalsound} Um I don't actually have any price information , no . {vocalsound}Project Manager: And anddo we know how long it'll take to uh develop a a custom chip .Industrial Designer: Um it {disfmarker} a lot longer than an off the shelf chip . Oh w yeah , we did{disfmarker} the the problem is the the the voice technology is not really highly developed ,Project Manager: Right ,Industrial Designer: it's sort of still still in anex experimental form ,Project Manager: okay .Industrial Designer: uh so it would uh {disfmarker} it's hard to predict the time . {vocalsound}Project Manager:Right , I think we need to make a a decision here . Uh given that the company wants this on the market quickly and cheaply ,Industrial Designer: Mm .ProjectManager: that would appear to uh effectively constrain us to an existing chip and thus therefore conventional button technology . Um uh now before we go roundeverybody else , does anybody um h have any have anyti ha anything to say about that ?User Interface: I {disfmarker} I just have a question about that . Umdoes it make a difference if there are just a few commands , for example if you um can pre-programme in like numbers one through ten and pre-programme say ,you know , nine channels and then just use the voice recognition to say channel one and then you've programmed in say B_B_C_ four as your channel one , asyour favourite , it's like to have a certain number of favourites umIndustrial Designer: W just to to incorporate the voice activation in it is is sorta the trick .UserInterface: and that wIndustrial Designer: Once you've got the whole voice chip in there , then it's pretty much the the world {disfmarker} the the sky is your limit,User Interface: Okay . Then it doesn't matter . Okay .Industrial Designer: but to actually {disfmarker} the the big step is to actually get the voice activationchips in there and working .User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: Cause uh I {vocalsound} must say I find it slightly surprising given that , you know , mobilephones incorporate voice activated dialling . So uh um I meanUser Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: I d d for slightly different {disfmarker} well no , I mean , it'sif you you {disfmarker} speak somebody's name and it'll dial the number for you , so uh bu I mean the this this information is from {disfmarker} is {disfmarker}this is the internal company information , is it ?Industrial Designer: Uh bits of it , yeah .Project Manager: So uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Of course mobilephones do tend to be more expensive ,Industrial Designer: Yes , as well .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: you know , hundred and fifty pounds orsomething . As opposed to the twenty Euros , twenty five Euros .Project Manager: Yeah , mm true , again but if it's without any without any uh p priceinformations that's uh difficult to uhIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: uh decide .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound} Also lots ofmobile phones have got a lot of technology in them , not just that , so .Industrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: Yeah , that's that's right . It's like {disfmarker}it's it's {disfmarker} you can't {disfmarker} 'cause mobile phones are expensive , you can't say it's the voice recognition bit that is .User Interface: {vocalsound}Yeah .Project Manager: But we don't know . Um . {vocalsound} I mean uh I su i I mean if {disfmarker} given that the um the technology is not well developedand and given that it's it's never been done before , um th th the double risk , uh perhaps we ought to uh stick to uh to buttons , since the last thing we want todo is present a product that doesn't work . Um . Thoughts ?User Interface: Well , another thought I {disfmarker}Marketing: Would {disfmarker}User Interface:oh , sorry , go ahead .Marketing: Oh I was just gonna say mayb maybe it sh like um {disfmarker} maybe we can like cut corners somewhere else to bring in overcost .Project Manager: {vocalsound} I mean do w do we think that the voice technology is fundamental to the project ?Industrial Designer: Uh it's fundament wellI mean I guess it it's something we've discussed uh since the the sort of the beginning , so I th I think in in our in our minds it's it's fundamental , but I don't


Lynne Neagle AM: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee this morning. I've received apologies for absencefrom Siân Gwenllian, and I'm very pleased to welcome Helen Mary Jones, who is substituting for Siân today. Can I ask whether Members want to declare anyinterests, please? Can I just, then, place on record that I have got a son who was about to do A-levels, so is affected by the exam decision? We'll move on, then,to our substantive item today, which is an evidence session with the Welsh Government around the impact of the coronavirus pandemic on education in Wales.I'm very pleased to welcome Kirsty Williams, Minister for Education; Steve Davies, who is director of the education directorate; Huw Morris, who is the groupdirector, skills, higher education and lifelong learning; and Rob Orford, who is the chief scientific adviser for health. Thank you all for coming. We know that this isa really difficult and pressurised time for everyone, and we appreciate your attendance. Minister, I understand you wanted to make an opening statementtoday.Kirsty Williams AM: Yes, if that's okay, Chair. As you know, it's not usually my practice to do that, but I think it is important today. COVID-19 coronavirus isone of the most significant issues that the Welsh Government and the people of Wales have dealt with in recent times. Dealing with the impacts of this pandemicis extremely challenging. Things are changing on an hourly basis, and we have to make decisions quickly to ensure public safety. But I would like to assure youthat our aim, and my aim, and my main concern as the education Minister is to protect all staff and pupils in our schools and other educational settings. But wealso have a duty to ensure continuing and continuity of education. Public health is clearly the priority here, but that does not change our belief that no child shouldmiss out on any education, unless absolutely necessary. So, the decision to close all schools from tomorrow for statutory education provision was not takenlightly, but I believe it was necessary, given the advice and recommendations that we had received from a public health perspective and the situation that wasdeveloping on the ground. From next week, schools will have a new purpose. They will help support those most in need, including people involved in theimmediate response to the coronavirus outbreak, and I'm working with my colleagues in the Cabinet, with Government officials and our partners in localgovernment to develop and finalise these plans. The key areas that we're looking at are supporting and safeguarding the vulnerable and ensuring continuity oflearning. This includes all of those who benefit from free school meals and children with additional learning needs. I can confirm that all maintained schools inWales already have access to a range of digital tools that can support distance learning through the world-class Hwb digital learning platform, including virtualclassrooms and video-conferencing facilities. A guide on what tools are available and how schools can use them has been developed and is being promotedwidely. Yesterday, I announced that, whilst there are no easy choices, we have agreed that the best way forward is not to proceed with the summer exam series.Learners due to sit these exams will be awarded a fair grade to recognise their work, drawing on a range of information that is available, and I will announcefurther details shortly, but I felt it necessary to give early certainty to students and to staff. I would like to put on record my thanks to everyone working ineducation settings for the hard work that they have put in over the last few months in dealing with the virus and ensuring that pupils have been able to continueto learn. We need to continue to do this work together, as we face the continuing challenges posed by the coronavirus. Diolch yn fawr.Lynne Neagle AM: Thankyou very much, Minister, for that statement. We'll go to questions from Members now, and I've got some questions from Dawn Bowden.Dawn Bowden AM: Thankyou, Chair. Can I thank you, Kirsty, for your statement and the really difficult decisions that you've been having to make? You've already indicated in yourstatement this morning that these decisions are not taken lightly, and we understand that that is the case across Government. So, thank you for what you'vebeen doing. You've outlined a little bit further there in your statement to us this morning about the new purpose. I take from what you're saying that you haven'treally developed that yet in terms of exactly what that is going to look like. You've talked about the children of key workers, free school meals, additional learningneeds. Is there anything else you can tell us about that at the moment and how you might staff the schools in those particular areas?Kirsty Williams AM: Thankyou, Dawn. So, you're absolutely right, our priority now is to operationalise, with colleagues in local government and schools, a practical response. And I have tosay, we're working to timescales that I would have hoped to have avoided, but given the fact that we're having to make these decisions quite quickly, I hope thatyou will understand that perhaps where we start on Monday might change when we have more time and more opportunities to develop programmes goingforward. Steve will be able to give you more details of the practical work that has already been going on, but our expectation will be that schools will be playingan important part in providing safe and secure places for children of those on the front-line response to dealing with the coronavirus to attend, and work isalready under way with local authorities and individual schools on what that will look like for the emergency situation on Monday. Our other priority is indeed freeschool meals, and, again, where we eventually end up might be a different place to where we are on Monday. Again, we're responding to the emergency situationthat there will be families that were expecting a free school meal on Monday, and, again, individual schools and local authorities are developing those plans atpace to be able to provide an emergency response as we work out a longer term plan to deal with the situation. The same thing also goes for additional learningneeds, and attending to the needs of that particular group of learners. So, those conversations began a few days ago. I had the opportunity to meet with the FirstMinister and Andrew Morgan, the leader of the Welsh Local Government Association, yesterday to talk about what local government could do, and what they werealready doing. Those plans in some places are already quite developed, and are now working at pace, but I hope you will understand that where we start onMonday is the emergency response, and that work will develop as we go forward. But, Steve, perhaps you could—? Because Steve was the one making all thosephone calls and doing the practical operational stuff, rather than me. Steve.Steve Davies: In short, the new purpose is to meet the needs of particular groups ofchildren and young people. In some cases, some of the response to supporting free school meals, in the short term in particular, we may use the schools as partof that, and I'm certain that will happen in some cases. The second area is looking at how we support the children of key workers. Now, there is still work to bedone on identifying exactly the categories of key workers, but I think it's really encouraging that in my discussions yesterday—I spoke with all 22 directors ofeducation, and the examples we're picking up in their work with schools is they're already ahead of the curve in working with schools. So, schools have identifiedthe number of children with health workers. It will grow, and we will need to look at that range. Then, the third area is vulnerable children. They're vulnerablesometimes in terms of education other than at school, vulnerable in terms of mental health, and for those children, as well as having an experience that we wantto be planned, some have compared it to a snow day, particularly on Monday, when you're putting something together in the short term, but it will not be aformal curriculum that those children would normally go through. So, the range of activities—some will be focused on educational activities, some will be cultural,some will be sporting, and that plan will be developed on the basis of the age range of children, which in some cases may go from extremely young children up tothose at the age of 16 in our all-through schools, but there will be a planned set of activities to cater for those children. What we are doing currently—I have staffback at Cathays Park who are in touch and working with directors of education to ensure that schools over the next two days will have been able to identify, atleast at the earlier stage, in terms of health workers, the type and numbers of people. There are already schools who have informed us, and local authorities, oftheir plans for these activities to be starting next week, which is quite amazing, actually, given where we are. But we are expecting, and we're writing to schoolstoday, that during the course of next week, headteachers to be in schools, and with their staff, taking into consideration the health guidance as to which staffshould or should not be in, and in that period from next Monday through the two-week period, to Easter, we expect staff to be both planning for delivery postEaster, but also, as I said, building on and reflecting the good practice that's already in place for schools that have engaged in activities, and I'm sure a number ofthem will be inviting and enabling those children to come in on Monday. So, Monday will be a challenge for some, and not all will be delivering it, but we will beworking so that we can get as much as possible delivered for those groups over the next two weeks, and particularly to have resilient programmes post Easter forthe groups of children in those three categories that I said.Dawn Bowden AM: Those that have been identified. Can I just clarify one thing? One of the identifiedvulnerable groups would clearly be children on the at-risk register. They would be included.Steve Davies: Yes, definitely. Vulnerable children, yes.Kirsty WilliamsAM: In our discussions, we have asked local government to be working with the social services departments and individual schools to identify those children whomay be in that situation. We know that, for some children, being at school is part of their safeguarding arrangements, and obviously we will need to be able torespond to those needs.Steve Davies: I wrote specifically yesterday to all directors of education to be assured that, for those children, the register is up to dateand the plans are in place. I'm working with Albert Heaney my colleague, the director for social services, who is meeting with the 22 directors of social servicestoday to look to ensure that we are joined up in ensuring none of these children fall through the gap.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. I've got a supplementary fromHefin, and then Suzy.Hefin David AM: A very quick and simple question: how are you going to communicate this to parents? There's a bigger picture and it'schanging all the time, as you said. The Welsh Government have a route to communication. The most helpful thing I've seen is that Public Health Wales have asingle website with information regarding the wider issue of the virus. How will this then be cascaded to schools, because there's obviously a time lag? So, have


Marketing: Right first time this time . Nu There we go . It's not that complicated , but I get it wrong every time . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay so we arejust waiting for Matthew {gap} .Marketing: For Matthew , yep .Project Manager: Mm . Uh {disfmarker} So I suggest we start the meeting uh without MatthewuhMarketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Mm 'kay .Project Manager: he's uh obviously late for some reason . {vocalsound} Good . Um . Today uh we will uhtalk about uh conceptual design . I hope uh you both did some uh some work uh concerning a uh conceptual design .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Umthis will be the uh agenda for the meeting uh {gap} . Uh I will take some minutes uh again .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Um we will have thepresentations of y of you different team members ,Marketing: Yep .Industrial Designer: Yep .Project Manager: and then try to come to decisions uh about theconcepts uh you have presented . So and that uh will uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: we have some uh forty minutes uh tocomplete this uh .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: So um who has the fir do you ha Anna do you have your presentation ready ?Marketing: I have apresentation , I'm just making this {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah I think {disfmarker} {vocalsound} yeah the {disfmarker} Matthew it is it's importantthat Matthew yeah is hereProject Manager: Okay . AhIndustrial Designer: because it's really a a team uh project with a teamProject Manager: there is Matthew.Industrial Designer: and if someone is not here then we cannot {disfmarker}User Interface: Sorry .Industrial Designer: but it's okay {vocalsound} it's good .{vocalsound}Marketing: Okay I'll just email you this file , my presentation .Project Manager: So . Good . Do {gap} presentation ready ?Marketing: Mm-hmm I'mjust emailing it to you .Project Manager: Oh okay .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: So did you manage uh{disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah I sent you the slides , you didn't see them ?Project Manager: Oh yes I see him , good yes .User Interface: Okay . {gap}.Project Manager: No .User Interface: {vocalsound} So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} 'Kay .Marketing: Okay it should've gone through to you .User Interface:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay mm yes I have it .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm-hmm . Okay so this is just a presentation on uh the trendsthat we're gonna use to make the product stand out from the rest of the products out there at the moment . Um can I just put this on ? So we have to work out away {disfmarker} what we can do with our product to make it stand out and make it so people wanna buy it . Um . This is {disfmarker} to do this I will notremove my microphone . {vocalsound} We basically used um some focus group surveys which I went through with you last time , the main results of that , andum some research on the current design um and fashion trends that are out there at the moment um ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: and as part ofthis {disfmarker} The important aspects that came out were things that we've already discussed really . The most important by far was the look and feel of it . Itneeds to be something that's very different from everything else out there . It needs to stand out {vocalsound} . It needs to be not functional like the rest of thethings out there at the moment . Most people find remote controls boring at the moment , we need to have something that looks interesting , that looks exciting ,that will stand out . People will wanna buy it . Um {disfmarker} That was twice as i important as the next item on here which is that it has to be technologicallyinnovative {disfmarker} has to have something else , apart from just the look of it . People have to then think about it and say {gap} got something there that Iwant . That's a really cool feature , and it has to make them wanna buy it again . Third on the list , and again innovative was twice as important as this last umaspect , it has to be easy to use . So they have to be able to {disfmarker} be able to look at it and have some intuitive idea of how to use it um . Drawing on thefashion trends at the moment , uh fruit and vegetables um . This is basically talking about just the the feel of it , so probably not the smell of it , but the brightcolours , um eye-catching , really bold designs , and a spongy feel .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .ProjectManager: Mm .Marketing: Um I had a talk to the design people about this , but having a remote that's tactile , that feels different , that would be really cool . Thatwould make it stand out . Um .Project Manager: Hmm .Industrial Designer: So can you repeat and be more precise about what you just said ?Project Manager:Spongy feel ?Industrial Designer: Uh about the feeling yeah uh yoMarketing: WellUser Interface: {vocalsound} You can {disfmarker}Marketing: ma make it notnecessar sp spongy is the current thing . Spongy is the current texture , but basically there are no reports no remotes at the moment which are spongy or tactileat all , so if we make it like maybe furry or soft or something , that'll be something that sets it apart ,Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing:rather than just bare plastic which they all are at the moment .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: So as far as the design goes , thevery most important aspect was the design , to the customers . So going with the fruit and vegetable idea , we've got the bright colours , so makes it stand out ,the oranges and the the bright yellows and the florescent colours , part of the fruit and vegetables um . Going back to the idea of taking inspiration from mobilephones , they've all got those {disfmarker} a lot of them have the changeable covers , so they can choose what colour the outside is . That's one way of lookingat it um . Textured feel we just talked about . Maybe it's another way of doing that .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: So if it's part of the the changeablecovers then may maybe they can choose a different texture , a spongy one or a soft one or something like that . So they can choose it li as they want to to maybe{disfmarker} to fit in with their decor in their living room , or just what they like , their sports team or whatever .Industrial Designer: Yeah that's a very good idea, yeah . Yeah .Marketing: Um and yeah , still taking the inspiration from the mobile phone design so functionality , the way the mobile phones work , the way thekeypad looks . Also just the way that a lot of industrial design is going into mobile phones at the moment . They're big selling items . People put a lot of thoughtinto that so we can leverage off that , and we can start using some of their ideas . Um back to technological in in innovation , not quite as important , but still abig issue . Um we talked about having a way of finding a remote control if it's been lost , uh that's one thing we could look at . There are other aspects likeL_C_D_ screens and speech recognition which weren't {disfmarker} I don't think , in my personal opinion , gonna be worth the extra expense and the extra effortthat will go into them . I think we're better doing something basic like thisIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Marketing: which is very important and very{disfmarker} will be a really cool feature to put in . And {disfmarker} {gap} use . I had no real specific ideas for this , maybe we just , the basic idea of havingyour core functions big and at the top maybe , by themselves ,Project Manager: Mm . Yes wellMarketing: and then {disfmarker}Project Manager: maybe Matthewcan can give some more information on the {disfmarker}Marketing: yeahUser Interface: Yeah .Marketing: {disfmarker} and then th th the finer details of buttonsyou don't use as much either hidden away or completely separate .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: Yep {vocalsound} and that's the presentation .UserInterface: Voila .Project Manager: Okay good , that's very clear .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah very clear .Project Manager: 'Kay . Um . Uh{disfmarker}Marketing: So does anyone have any comments or ideas on that ? I think you {disfmarker}Project Manager: Maybe we yes well we maybe{vocalsound} can decide later on um {vocalsound} the l the the look and feel of uh I've {disfmarker} it was a good idea maybe to to {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: To let the people choose , {gap} you mean ?Project Manager: Yes the the the there are changeable covers ,Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager:but on the other hand I I don't know whether my superiors would be so glad with it because {vocalsound} you have to introduce a complete uh uh new l line ofuh of suppliesMarketing: Hmm .Project Manager: uh it would be uh very complicated uh organisational {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing:Well we're selling so many units of this . This is gonna be a mass marketed product , we can afford to have two or three different designs at least .ProjectManager: Hmm . Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Yeah a range of uh yeah , a set of three , four different aspects .Marketing: Mm mm .Project Manager: Yes .Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Sure that fits the {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yes {gap} and of course it will be a we we get a {disfmarker} if itworks we can get uh after-salesMarketing: Mm .Project Manager: I mean that would {gap} would be very good I mean those covers could go for for three , fiveEuro {vocalsound} .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: That's a very good idea um {disfmarker} And then uh maybe uh we can go a thMatthew's presentation becauseUser Interface: YeahMarketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: sProject Manager: the {disfmarker}User Interface: then we coulddiscuss later like {disfmarker} we can put all ideas together .Project Manager: Together indeed uh ,Marketing: Mm .User Interface: It should be easier with that.Project Manager: because you ma might have some some information on the the easy to use ,Industrial Designer: Yeah yeah I agree .Marketing: Mm-hmm ,yeah .Project Manager: what you were already mentioning .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer:And your part is very related to mineUser Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: because when you suggest something then it has to be integrated inside .UserInterface: Yeah so {vocalsound} I'll I'll go with that actuallyMarketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: so um {vocalsound} {disfmarker} Okay so m so {vocalsound}then the the idea of uh having a remote is generally you have uh different keys and uh different structures , different forms , and uh they could be like buttonsand um they could be of uh a varying sizes if you want to to uh basically emphasize a particular key more than the other , and uh maybe like you can havedifferent colours for example having the r red for the on off switching on and off the button . So this this is the general trend to ha the method they do .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: So what I have found was that uh currently uh the {gap} they are mostly that theT_V_ , V_C_R_ , music system operated ones actually , and they are very specific to each other , but there are some common keys for example if you want to


Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I'm proud of it . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay . This is our final meeting , the detaileddesign meeting . And again I'll take minutes . The {disfmarker} what we have to get through in this meeting is firstly the prototype presentation from you two ,so you can show us what you've been working on so diligently .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: It does look very cool .Project Manager: Um thenIndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} then Cat's going to present the evaluation criteria that we're going to be evaluating this against .UserInterface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Then I need to say some st a few things about finance , 'cause we have to check that it's within the finance criteria . Umand then we'll be making sure that our product fits both the evaluation criteria from Cat and the financial limits . Um and then we uh will have a brief evaluationof the whole process of production and design that we've been through . So we've got forty minutes . SMarketing: And then do we get to make a remote control?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} 'Cause we missed out .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .ProjectManager: SoIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: it's now {disfmarker} I guess that we're supposed to start at fifteen thirty five , so we've gotuntil four fifteen .Industrial Designer: Uh-huh . How how much do we have , forty minutes ?Project Manager: Is that right ?User Interface: Yeah , about fourfifteen , yeah .Project Manager: Yeah ,Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: until about four fifteen . So yeah . {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound} Okay , so .Project Manager: Go for it . Do you want {disfmarker}User Interface: So , you said um {disfmarker} are are we starting withthe the {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yes .Industrial Designer: Presentation .User Interface: so will you maybe start with like the mm the shape and things andand then I will explain the the user interface th uh things , like the buttons and the scrolling things and {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay .{vocalsound} Okay . So um basically going with our trend of vegetables and {vocalsound} {disfmarker} we selected the colour and approximate shape of banana.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} You think bananas are a safe thing to use ?Project Manager:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: It's a bit um phallic .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Um{disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Well , but it's it's just an a approximation . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Dual use ,perfect .Industrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Dual use , perfect .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Oh , {vocalsound}{gap} your remote control ? Oh that's just bad . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Does it vibrate when you press the buttons ?Industrial Designer:{vocalsound} Um so basically it's the it's the flip open thing again .Project Manager: Sorry , sorry .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So now wewe have the {disfmarker} okay ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: so Ma Maarika will explain you the user interface there . And it flips open on theside , so it opens like that . And we have the user interface o in hereProject Manager: Mm-hmm . Wow .Industrial Designer: and uh {vocalsound} the the L_C_D_and and the scroll are inside . Um well , everything else is probably user interface , so . Yeah , yeah .Project Manager: And it's {disfmarker} the whole thing'smade of rubber , is that {disfmarker}User Interface: Uh yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Oh yeah . Yeah , it has , yeah .User Interface: Rubber.Marketing: Is it to scale , or do you think you can make it a bit smaller ?User Interface: Yeah , {gap} . Um it could be made a bit smaller , and and of course itwould be {gap} and {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound} yeah , but um one thing we actually kind of um forgot while designing , that oneside was supposed to be rounder ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah ,User Interface: so we said the back side round , yeah .Industrial Designer: well , but isince it's made of rubber anyway . I I think it's it's uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: It l does look like the {gap} curvyUser Interface: Yeah.Marketing: and then the whole shape's curvy , so I would say that this curvy does look quite like a vegetable .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Mm . Hmm .User Interface: Yeah . And it's spongy as well . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Iwasn't very keen on that , but yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: So {vocalsound} so uh the user interface as as we discussedlast time uh mm on on the {vocalsound} on the cover we just have the very basic things .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Huh . Mm-hmm.User Interface: So we have that n uh channels here starting from um uh one two three {disfmarker} there would be numbers in in the {disfmarker} on theactual one .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: So it's four , up to four , up to seven , up to nine and zero , z zero here .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Sixseven eight nine . I like that .User Interface: Yeah . And then , well this is on off button . It's it's quite standard mm place for it and and also the colour is quiteoften red , so it's it's kind of user friendly .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: And then these ones would be for flipping the channels back and {disfmarker}like the previous one and the next one .Project Manager: Uh-huh .User Interface: And and we would also have a l little um thing saying here , previous and neprevon prevon next .Marketing: So where's the volume ?Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: The volume is is scrolling .Industrial Designer: It's on the side.User Interface: On the side ,Marketing: Ah , you did get that in then ,User Interface: this one . Yeah you just do it like this .Marketing: mm-hmm .User Interface:And and and it's it's on the back is mm cover or back lid , because if you flip it open , you can still do the scrolling here .Marketing: Oh okay , {gap} .ProjectManager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: See ? So the volume is {vocalsound} you just scroll , but then once you flip it open , {vocalsound} okay , there there youhave the screenProject Manager: Yeah .User Interface: and and you have the mm {vocalsound} spinning wheel with options to choose .Project Manager:Mm-hmm .User Interface: You can move back and forth and then if you need to m choose something on the screen , you just push the cen mm the middle button.Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Cool . Oh , the thing we forgot was like a mute button .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh no , we we'd not put {gap}{vocalsound} {disfmarker}User Interface: A mute button .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: so on on the cover we have the the bare essentials .UserInterface: Well , {gap} we'll have this on the screen , on the display .Project Manager: Y or you could have it {disfmarker} so you {disfmarker} on the wheel ifyou {disfmarker}Marketing: On the wheel , like if you hold the wheel down then it will mute .Industrial Designer: Uh on the L_C_D_ we r you know , the mainmenu will have various options .User Interface: Well , but the but the mute {disfmarker} yeah , the scrolling is kind of you have to scroll all the way to make itmute , right ?Project Manager: But if you hold it in ,Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: Yeah , but it's a scroll and click , isn't it ?Project Manager: if it's a scrolland click so you hold it in ?Marketing: Okay , cool .User Interface: Okay , yeah , okay .Marketing: So that {gap} that solves the whole mute issue .IndustrialDesigner: Mm .User Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound} And okay , so i so the the voice recognition is also just part of it .Project Manager: {gap} no .User Interface:You can't really see it in the interface .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah , it's hidden in there somewhere .User Interface: Yeah . And we do have the logoon it as well .Project Manager: Mm-hmm , very good .User Interface: So I think it {disfmarker}Project Manager: And it's {disfmarker} {vocalsound} with the theblack and yellow you're even in the right colours .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: {gap} .Industrial Designer: Cool .User Interface: Yeah , I think um we coulddo l the logo in grey , as it is on the website .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} We ran out of resources here , so .{vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: In the actual one .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: You can have a look . {vocalsound}User Interface: So if you have questions .Project Manager: Very good , let's have a look.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Test it out . {vocalsound}Marketing: {gap} . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager:{vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh it's a sort of intermediate colour , I guess .Marketing: Yeah , oh , we hold the remote .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}Marketing: Oh , but it it does feel all cold and slimy .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: I hatePlay-Do , it's just minging .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: But yeah , uh that's cool , cool .Project Manager: Very good .Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Okay , so maybe if we go on to evaluation cri criteriaMarketing: Okay .Project Manager: and then we'll there {disfmarker}Industrial Designer:Yeah , see the budget .Project Manager: I suspect we're gonna have a couple of minor finance issues , but um we'll se I'm sure we can get around them somehow.Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: We'll just send all of our manufacturing to some nice poorcountryIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: and cut some of the prices that way .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Wales .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Wales , for example . {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm . Cool , okay . Right , okay . {vocalsound}{vocalsound} Fabulous ,Project Manager: Marketing Expert .Marketing: yeah . Okay , cool . So what we're gonna do is prefer {disfmarker} prepare the evaluationof the new design . {vocalsound} Um so we're gonna be using a seven point scale ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: so one is , you know , yes , it totallymeets with that requirement and seven is , no , it really doesn't , we need to go back and start again . Um , you know . Basically , what I did was I went throughall the like user requirements and things that we've done and we've worked on and like made a list of them . Um you know , so that we can evaluate each oneand like {disfmarker} so it was about going back to the start and saying oh yeah , we did manage to do that , or oh no , we really forgot about that .UserInterface: Yeah .Marketing: Okay ?Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Cool , so these are what they are . Oh {disfmarker}Project Manager: So for each of


Project Manager: SoMarketing: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: I hope you're ready for this uh functional design meeting .Marketing: Of course .{vocalsound}Project Manager: Um so I will take the minutes you mm you three are going to do presentation . Um uh we want to know {disfmarker} to{disfmarker} at the end to know the new project's requirement so we need uh to know the the user uh needs that we want to fulfil to fulfil the {disfmarker} fromthe technical part we want to know how it going to work and um third part {vocalsound} uh I don't remember {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}{vocalsound}Project Manager: which is not very good . Ah of course , how to to design this uh this {disfmarker}Marketing: Nice stuff {vocalsound}ProjectManager: {vocalsound} yeah . So um let's go for the three presentations , so first um Marketing Expert .Marketing: {vocalsound} Who starts ? {vocalsound} Oh .Ha . okay .Project Manager: So wait a minute . Mm .Marketing: So I dunno if I can do that like this ? Yeah ? So it's being modified . Do you want {disfmarker}yeah , open . Read only . I hope I saved it . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: So , umUser Interface: Sammy Benjo . I know this nameuh .Marketing: yeah , this is my name . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Sounds uh {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} We met before.Marketing: So as you know , you {disfmarker} I think you already know me , Sammy Benjo . I am the expert in marketing and I want to tell you about whatpeople uh s want and uh like and dislike in remote controls , and I hope this is going to help you to to design it correctly . So next please . Uh-oh .{vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm {vocalsound} uh .Industrial Designer: Yeah , it is put F_ five {gap} .Project Manager: Hmm .Marketing: {vocalsound} Hmm.Industrial Designer: The full page presentation , yep .Marketing: Yeah maybe in the full pageProject Manager: Okay .User Interface: F_ F_ five .Marketing:because i I spent lots of time doing this presentation , so .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Yep .Project Manager: F_ five .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Uh-huhhmm okay .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Mm .Marketing: So basically uh what I suggest is that uh instead of deciding ourself what what could be and what shouldbe a good uh remote control , let's ask people who are users of remote controls how they feel about w the current remote controls , what they like , what theydon't like and um and what they do with them by the way {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: because they are supposed to be useful .{vocalsound} Don't forget about that . So we've we've conducted a a survey on on the use of uh remote controls and I'd like to show you some of the results wefound on this survey . And next please . Yeah , so basically what we found was that uh there are several things that the user don't like in remote controls . First ofall , they find it very ugly . {vocalsound} Current remote controls as you know they're the same as this one uh they're not nice colour , not nice shape , I meanthey're all the same , and they're not l good looking . Um what is interesting is that in fact it seems that they were {disfmarker} people are ready to pay for niceand look {disfmarker} and fancy looking uh remote control , so I think we should probably spend lots of time in {disfmarker} and effort in that um . And theother thing is that uh the the current remote controls are not so easy to use and it it {disfmarker} the the current uh facilities that they offer do not match whatpeople really want to use their remote controls . For instance uh we see that uh they zap very often so I think this is a very uh important uh functionality that itshould be easy for them to to zap uh in one way or another . And most of the buttons uh on uh current remote controls are not used , so I think we should designsomething where some of the buttons which are those that are used should be easier to see and use than others that only a couple of people are using . Um nextplease . {vocalsound} Now {vocalsound} people are very frustrated w with their {vocalsound} remote controlsIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}{vocalsound}Marketing: and they for instance uh they don't even find it {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: it's {vocalsound} it's often lostsomewhere in the in the {disfmarker} in your home and nobody knows where it is .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: Agree .Marketing: Maybe if we havesomething where we could {vocalsound} ask the remote control please , where are you ?Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound} Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound} Like uh something to to {disfmarker} like t I think phones . Some of the phones have some of this kindof s functionality . Uh of course phone you can always phone your phoneProject Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: but {vocalsound} you can't phone your{vocalsound} your remote control .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} You can {disfmarker} you are {gap} .Project Manager: Why not ? {vocalsound}Marketing:But why not ? Yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: And because of the fact that there are so many buttons in these remote controls that nobodyuse ,Industrial Designer: Hmm .Marketing: in fact they don't even know how to use them , so most of the the people say they they don't know how to{disfmarker} they {disfmarker} to use properly their r remote controls . And uh they are bad for R_S_I_ but uh I don't remember what is R_S_I_ .ProjectManager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay uh tha that's look great .Marketing: {vocalsound} So I think theyare bad . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} R_S_I_ mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm-hmm . Mm nobody hasany idea about that ? Well I'll check uh with myIndustrial Designer: Yeah , it's electromagnetic waves or something kind of maybe uh effect .Marketing: Oh , okay,User Interface: No , I don't think so .Marketing: I think it's a technical thingIndustrial Designer: Yeah ,Marketing: which our {disfmarker}Industrial Designer:because infrared uses some electromagnetic technology ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Okay .Marketing: Okay .User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: andthose waves have high {disfmarker}Marketing: So , it seems that {vocalsound} it's a lot of people for a concept that we don't know {vocalsound}User Interface:But twenty six percent , do you know {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Or something we don't know . {vocalsound} Mm-hmm .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Uh .User Interface: Twenty five . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Uh .Marketing: but we have to take this into account .UserInterface: Every fourth , you know . {vocalsound} Every four {disfmarker} some of us knows .Industrial Designer: Yeah it's {disfmarker} People really{vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay .Marketing: So anywayUser Interface: One of us{disfmarker}Marketing: that's for what the biggest frustration uh of the user and umIndustrial Designer: Yeah . Yeah .Marketing: what else do I have ? Next slide? Ah yeah .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: So we've listed a couple of uhUser Interface: Functions .Marketing: s uh functions that may be uh used by u theuser in the current uh available uh remote controls and uh well the tables look very nice to read but what is important is to understand that the power button isnot used often because in general you {vocalsound} use it only once per session , but it is very relevant . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing:People want to have a power button . Channel selection is uh o often used {disfmarker} very often used and indeed uh very relevant .Project Manager:{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Ah {vocalsound} now I remember what is R_S_I_ {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: it's repetitivitystress injury . {vocalsound} We have to be careful with that word but {vocalsound} uh anywayIndustrial Designer: Uh .Marketing: I continue my presentation so{disfmarker} yeah ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: channel selection is um very important , very often used . Volume is not often used but people uhwant to have control on volume and that makes sense of course . And n then you have things which are very much less often used like the settings . Audiosettings , screen settings , even teletext and channel settings . All of them . they're not often used and they are s more or less relevant . It seems that people findteletext teletext uh relevant , even if I personally never use it but seems that it's average relevant at least , so .Project Manager: I have been told that we uhdon't consider teletext , that it's out of date now because of internet .Marketing: I can tell you that uh in a l in a scale between one and ten relevant uh notrelevant to relevant people scored a six on this , which is not as uh these these two one were {disfmarker} had I think ten I think .Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: But but if you compare with these ones , uh I think they scored a one or two .Industrial Designer: Hmm .Marketing: Not very relevant , so if if thereare good reason not to put teletext it's okay but just know that people find it somehow relevant .Project Manager: Mm-hmmUser Interface: Mm-hmm .ProjectManager: {vocalsound}Marketing: That's for the main functions I think and uh then we can ask uh ourself uh what people don't have that may be useful . Forinstance I think {disfmarker} net next slide . {vocalsound} One of the thing {disfmarker} the trend uh that uh you are probably aware of is the possibility{disfmarker} the eventual possibility of having speech recognition in your remote control , so you wouldn't have to tap tap in your buttons but just tell yourremote control or whatever you need you have what you want . So we've conducted a survey about uh whether people would like or not to have uh this kind of uhfunctionality in their remote control and as we can see it really depends on the age . Young people , probably because it's a buzz word , find it very relevant . Anduh as the age goes up {vocalsound} the {vocalsound} the relevance goes down .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound} So now itreally depends on the kind of uh targeting uh wha who are we targeting with this remote control ?Industrial Designer: 'Cause {disfmarker}Marketing: I think if weare targeting young people then uh it's probably something we have to consider . If we are targeting you very old people this is something they really don't knowwhy they {disfmarker} this should be so nowProject Manager: Mm-mm . Okay .Marketing: this is of course , depends on that . And um I don't have anyconclusion , I didn't have time the meeting was very tight , so that's basically my findings . And uh , if you have any question ?Project Manager: Mm I think it'sgood , okay . You done a good review .User Interface: I got one question ,Marketing: I can go back .Industrial Designer: Thank you .Marketing: Yeah onequestion ,User Interface: uh you are a Market ExpertMarketing: yeah ?User Interface: soMarketing: I am . {vocalsound}User Interface: should we aim at the