User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Mm uh .Marketing: {vocalsound} {gap} We're the first .User Interface: Mm .We're the first ones . {vocalsound}Marketing: Marketing Expert , yes .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So you found your spots.Marketing: Yes .User Interface: {vocalsound} Move to the meeting room . {vocalsound}Marketing: Bling bling . {vocalsound} Yeah .User Interface: Okay.Marketing: Right . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Uh {vocalsound} where has my screen gone ?Industrial Designer: Hi .User Interface: Hello ,good day . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Oh yeah , we have to talk in English ,Marketing: Hmm .Industrial Designer: huh .UserInterface: Yep .Marketing: Yeah . My screen is gone .Project Manager: It's called black . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Oh .User Interface: Kick-offmeeting , wow . It's uh looks uh nice .Industrial Designer: I'm afraid I'm a bit slow for this stuff uh .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay .User Interface: Hmm?Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I'm afraid I'm a bit too slow . {vocalsound} I don't know how much preparation you guys did ,User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: but not a lot .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: No , it's {disfmarker} it was uh not enough .Project Manager: You see this beautifulpresentation .Marketing: Yeah . Very nice .Project Manager: Okay let's get started .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Uh I sort of prepared this .User Interface:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh opening acquaintance , tool training , uh how to use the things here . Uh project plan discussion , and yeah then the rest of themeeting .Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Um we're supposed to develop a new remote control , that's both original , trendy anduser-friendly . So ,Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: hope you have good ideas . I don't . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} I didmy best .Project Manager: Um we're work we're working uh from top to bottom . Uh functional design ,Industrial Designer: Not yet .Project Manager: then we dosome in individual work , then we have a meeting to discuss the results , etcetera etcetera . And at the end of the day we should have a prototype drawn up . Uhwe have available the smart board and the whiteboard . Um uh we should take some practice . I have some instructions now to do that .Marketing: Yeah .ProjectManager: Uh well you know how to {disfmarker} the documents work . So {disfmarker} Uh this for toolbar . You see it next . Um we have a pen . And we can usethis pen to perform . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yes .Industrial Designer: Operations .Project Manager:So {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: It doesn't always work . Yes .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Okay so you can draw.Marketing: Draw . Alright .Project Manager: Okay and in the format menu you can select colour and line width , etcetera etcetera . Okay ?Marketing: 'Kay.Project Manager: Uh {disfmarker} Okay . Each of you can uh take some practice and you should draw an animal . Uh you should explain {disfmarker} Uh withdifferent colours and with different pen widths .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: And you should explain why youdraw that particular animal .User Interface: {vocalsound} Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound} Don't take up too much space . {vocalsound}Project Manager: So ,Julian .User Interface: Um yeah .Industrial Designer: Different pen widths , how do you do that ?User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh with theformat menu .Industrial Designer: Oh okay .Project Manager: And use different colours etcetera .User Interface: {vocalsound} It's a giraffe . Yeah .ProjectManager: And {vocalsound} what's that supposed to be ? {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Are you serious ?Marketing: {vocalsound} Should it be one{disfmarker}Project Manager: Oh yeah . {vocalsound} Oh yeahUser Interface: {vocalsound} Okay .Project Manager: four legs . Uh-huh .{vocalsound}Marketing: Giraffe's yellow . {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh it needs some uh some yellow uh {disfmarker} Oh format .Marketing: Can you useone blank sheet per drawing ? OrProject Manager: Yeah .Marketing: so y you must save it at the endProject Manager: YeahMarketing: and then{disfmarker}Project Manager: you can press the next button , which is uh {disfmarker} yeah . I'll show you .User Interface: That's some spots .IndustrialDesigner: I in the file option menu .Project Manager: Yeah . In file menu .Marketing: Okay ,User Interface: No .Marketing: then m make a new one .UserInterface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: How much time do we have to draw anyway ? {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah .User Interface:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: 'Cause I can take forever on this .Project Manager: {gap}User Interface: Okay . Do I have to explain uh why I chose this uhthis animal ?Project Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound}User Interface: I think it's a it's a great animal .Project Manager: What is it ? {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} It's a it's a giraffe .Project Manager: A giraffe okay . Yeah I see a long neckUser Interface:Yeah , that's a {disfmarker}Project Manager: but {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: It's more like a dinosaur . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Um{disfmarker} Okay I'll will give it an uh an eye .Project Manager: Okay . That's nice of you .Marketing: {vocalsound} Uh .User Interface: Hey . Come on.Marketing: Some leaf to eat . {vocalsound}User Interface: {gap} {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay . Yeah pretty good . Uh could you press the next uh{disfmarker}User Interface: The next ? Yes .Project Manager: Okay . Then uh {disfmarker} {gap} .User Interface: Here you go . {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah .Thanks .User Interface: Hmm .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Is this part of our a acquai or introduction to each other?Project Manager: Yeah sorry , introduction and get acquaintedMarketing: {vocalsound} Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: and {disfmarker}Industrial Designer:Alright .Project Manager: That's the idea , so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Uh . Your line broke .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah . Alright .User Interface:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah it's a bit slow ,Marketing: It's not that fast .Project Manager: so {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah .{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I see . It misses the spot .Project Manager: {gap} pressure .Industrial Designer: I'm guessing a turtle . No . {vocalsound}I'm kidding .Marketing: {vocalsound} I say good guess . Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Why a turtle ?Industrial Designer: Because of its shell .Marketing:Because it's slow . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} It's slow .User Interface: 'Cause it's soProject Manager: You were slow tooUser Interface: 'causeit's green . {vocalsound}Project Manager: so {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah I was a bit slow too .Industrial Designer: Dude you're a good drawer .Marketing: So{disfmarker} {vocalsound} Uh some other line uh width uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Do you have a turtle pet ?Project Manager: {vocalsound}UserInterface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} No . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Uh okay .Marketing: I dunno . {vocalsound} Does it have legs ?{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah yeah yeah .Project Manager: Yeah sure .Marketing: Yeah ?Project Manager: Yeah not exactly legs but {disfmarker} Morelike finsMarketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Stumpy stuff .Project Manager: or {disfmarker}Marketing: It's more like a tank . Yeah that's finsIndustrialDesigner: They kind of l look like mole legs . With sharp nails on .Marketing: but I don't know where . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Somespots . Ah some eye .Project Manager: {vocalsound} YeahMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: it's l looks very friendly . {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeahthat's a fr {vocalsound} friendly turtle I guess .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah well I think it's uh fair enough .Project Manager: Yeah okay.Industrial Designer: A little tail maybe .Project Manager: {vocalsound} {gap} {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: Right . {vocalsound} I don't know what the position is . {vocalsound} Does it have ears ?Industrial Designer: Uh no .Project Manager:No .User Interface: No .Marketing: No . Oh okay .Industrial Designer: The little holes maybe .Marketing: Can you erase earsProject Manager: Yeah yeah yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: or {disfmarker}Project Manager: There's a a gum ,Marketing: Yeah ? Alright .Project Manager: gum to {gap}.Marketing: Eraser .Industrial Designer: And why did you choose this animal ?Marketing: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: He said it was slow .Marketing: Idunno . I it just came into my mind . So there's no particular reasonIndustrial Designer: Alright .Marketing: I {gap} pen .Project Manager: {vocalsound} I like it .{vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah . Well I'm {disfmarker} guess I'm done .Project Manager: Okay . {gap}Marketing: That's my turtle .Project Manager: Your turnNiels .Industrial Designer: Alright .Marketing: How to select the next or {disfmarker}Project Manager: The nextMarketing: here .Project Manager: yeah .IndustrialDesigner: {gap} Colours were under formatMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: Makes new paper .Marketing: Here you go .Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: right ? Let's see .Project Manager: Orange .Industrial Designer: How am I gonna do this ? Um {disfmarker} Mm uh .User Interface: A rabbitI think .Project Manager: Kangaroo .User Interface: Kangaroo . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Not quite actually .User Interface: Fox.Marketing: A fox yeah .Project Manager: Dog .Marketing: Firefox .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: No .Project Manager: Cat .IndustrialDesigner: Aye . {vocalsound} It's a cat .Project Manager: It's a cat .User Interface: Mm .Industrial Designer: Not quite yet through .Marketing: A cat who had anaccident or {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Project Manager: Why a cat ?Industrial Designer: Uh yeah I dunno . They're my favourite pets .Project Manager: You havesome uh ?Industrial Designer: Uh I have colour already . Yeah I'm not so good at drawing with this kind ofProject Manager: {vocalsound} The pen ,IndustrialDesigner: st Oh shit . Um {disfmarker}Project Manager: yeah .Industrial Designer: Excuse my language .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Sure . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I don't know how to draw its face . But you get the idea .Project Manager: Yeah .{vocalsound} Alright .Industrial Designer: It's a cat . It's my favourite uh pet animal , 'cause they're cute , they're independent and cuddly , I dunno .{vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: That's it .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Or do I need to use more colours and


Lynne Neagle AM: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee. We've received no apologies, although DawnBowden is running late. I'll take this opportunity to welcome Dawn formally to the committee but also to place on record our thanks to John Griffiths for hisservice to the committee. Are there any declarations of interest, please? No. Okay. Item 2, then, this morning is a scrutiny session with a focus on higher andfurther education. I'm very pleased to welcome Kirsty Williams, Cabinet Secretary for Education, Eluned Morgan, Minister for Welsh Language and LifelongLearning, and Huw Morris, who is the group director of skills, higher education and lifelong learning. Thank you all for your attendance this morning. If you'reokay with it, we'll go straight into questions. The first questions are from Suzy Davies.Suzy Davies AM: Thank you, Chair. If we can just start with teacher trainingand teacher training for secondary school teachers in particular, obviously there's been what looks like a trend in recent years in filling the places for secondaryschool training. Obviously, this is at Welsh teacher training centres. Do you think there's still a problem recruiting teachers into the 300 priority places, or is therea trend where things are getting better?Kirsty Williams AM: Thank you, Suzy. I think, for this year's intake, although we're in touch with our providers, we're notin a position to be able to give figures for this year's intake for a couple of months. But what we have seen over recent years is that we are only recruiting toabout 65 per cent of those targets. So, there is still a job of work to do to understand and to respond to those needs. So, what we're doing is first of all makingsure that our ITE provision is world class, so that, actually, Welsh centres are the place to go to train to be a teacher. You'll be aware that we've recently beenthrough an accreditation process for new ITE provision that will start in the next academic year. We have looked at financial incentives. It's not the whole answer,I think, to these issues, but it's part of a mixture of things that we need to do. You'll be aware that, for priority subjects, with graduates with the very highestlevels of qualifications, those financial incentives are now £20,000 a year. We're also embarking on our first ever national ITE recruitment marketing exercise. Wehave initially done some work in the last year specifically targeting Welsh students in studying for priority subject degrees, e-mailing them, sending themmaterials to ask them to consider (1) becoming a teacher, and (2) crucially coming to do that training here in Wales. We are now part of a full nationalprogramme of ITE recruitment, giving people that idea that you can serve your nation and your community by training to be a teacher. So, there's a wholepackage of things we need to do. In January of this year I set up an advisory board on the recruitment and retention of teaching staff, and we are awaiting somereports from that advisory group on what they feel that we should do next.Suzy Davies AM: Thank you for that answer. I can see there's a lot of activity, but whatexactly is it responding to? Presumably, some research has been done about why people don't want to become teachers so that the answers you come up withare appropriate answers. I can't believe it's just about ITE, although this is very valuable, what you're talking about. Is there something that's running throughour younger learners at the moment that makes them think that teaching isn't a profession they want to go into? Is that something that's happening just in Walesor is it happening elsewhere as well?Kirsty Williams AM: No. I think what you will find is that this isn't a uniquely Welsh issue. I think they are suffering quiteacute problems across the border, which proves to me that money isn't necessarily the entire answer, because, despite higher financial incentives to join ITEcourses, they're not able to do that in England either. So, that proves to me—what the research does show—that it's not money alone that will get people ontothese courses. Interestingly, I don't even think it's a UK problem. Recently, as you'll be aware via my written statement, I attended the AtlanticRim Collaboratory, which is a system-to-system conference. If you talk to education systems in different parts of the world, the one common factor that we are allgrappling with is teacher recruitment and retention. In the USA, they have seen a 40 per cent drop in the number of students training to be teachers. So, in theCalifornian system, significant teacher shortages, and in Oregon, Washington. I met with New York state—significant teacher recruitment and retention problemsin New York state, and in Finland, Australia. So, this is a common issue across the globe, really. That's why we set up the advisory group under the chairmanshipof Professor John Gardner—it's to understand what the issues are exactly that are preventing people or putting people off. One of the things that we have gotstrong performance in, and I think this is perhaps something that we're trying to follow up on, are employment-based routes into qualified teacher status—so,those are people who are training on the job. Those remain strong. There's high demand for those places, so much so that we've increased those places to 90 lastyear and 90 again this year, which says to me that—there's definitely a place for the traditional, 'Take a year off, do a postgraduate certificate in education in auniversity for a year'—actually, that type of course suits some students but it might be preventing other people from pursuing a qualification in teaching, which iswhy, of course, from next year, we will have our unique part-time PGCE route into qualification. So, that allows people to perhaps combine some of theiremployment opportunities, so they can earn while they learn, or maybe they've got caring responsibilities that prevent them from going to do a full-time course. Ithink that will give us an alternative route that people can take to gain qualified teacher status and work in our schools. So, there's no one thing, I think, that wecan do that will solve this issue. But it is an international issue, I agree with that.Suzy Davies AM: Okay. Well, that's what I was after finding out, and, actually,what you've just said about the part-time PGCE is pretty interesting as well, because if you can bring your outside world experience into teaching, that's got tohelp, hasn't it?Kirsty Williams AM: Can I just agree with you? I think that is really, really important—that we have a diversity in our teaching workforce. I thinkthe different dynamic that brings to a school and the experience that brings to children is really, really valuable. I was up in the Deeside Sixth just last week,talking to the A-level chemistry teacher. She had been a teacher for a while, she'd gone into industry, worked in industry, and now had come back into teaching.She said that she felt that that made her a better educator and she could talk with knowledge and experience about the opportunities outside of teaching that thestudents in front of her could pursue. I'm very keen to increase the diversity in our teaching workforce and I'm very keen in looking at career changers, whoperhaps have different life experience and work experience, coming into our teaching profession.Suzy Davies AM: Thank you for that. Part of that diversity, ofcourse—it would be great if you had more people interested in qualifying to teach through the medium of Welsh. Great aspirations; the trend's going the otherway. No-one can solve this in 280 characters, I get that, but can you give us some indication about why you think this is proving still such an unattractive optionwhen it's clear that there's a policy for this country to improve the number of Welsh speakers? You'd have thought there'd be a pretty good carrot for this.KirstyWilliams AM: Sure. Again, data for recruitment for the 2018-19 cohort is not yet available and we are, as I said, keeping in touch with our ITE centres to keep aclose eye on them. I think an important thing to recognise is that there is a difference between the number of people who are on courses where there is a specificdesignation that enables them to teach through the medium of Welsh and those people who have linguistic ability and Welsh ability but don't necessarily do acourse that allows them. So, there is a difference. We do think that, for the 2016-17 cohort, there were an additional 130 qualifiers that, actually, were fluent inWelsh and who could have gone on to teach in Welsh-medium schools, didn't necessarily do a course that gave them that designation. But, clearly, we've gotthree academic years now to get to the targets that we've set ourselves. The evaluation of Welsh-medium provision in ITE reported at the end of last month, andthe Minister and officials are busy working now to implement the recommendations of the report that was published, I think, on 28 September, to be able to movethis agenda forward. Again, we've got new incentives, this year, both for people starting their course and then for teachers who complete their QTS after a year.So, we've added in new financial incentives this year to try and address some of those issues. But, clearly, these are ambitious targets and we will need to have astep change over the next three years if we're to meet them.Suzy Davies AM: Thank you for that, Cabinet Secretary. Thank you for that answer. We're nowtalking about cohorts of students coming into PGCE and teaching degrees. If they're from Wales, they will have had Welsh as part of their education from dayone, and we'll accept there are varying qualities in different parts of Wales, different attitudes towards it as well. But there isn't a single a person now who's beenthrough Welsh education who can say they have no Welsh at all, unless they've moved into the system from, say, England very, very recently. What is being donewithin the teaching qualifications, including the degrees, to ensure that, at least in Welsh universities, those nascent Welsh language skills are at least kept alive,even though we're not talking necessarily about being at a level where people can teach through the medium? It's the age-old question: once the school gatecloses, is that the end of their Welsh use? So, is there something—it won't be Donaldson, but in the teacher training qualifications—that is keeping this going and,hopefully, increasing the usability of the Welsh skills they have?Kirsty Williams AM: Well, in terms of how we can encourage children who have got Welsh skills asa result of their education up to 16, how they can continue to use those skills and, potentially, use them in the workplace, I'm sure Eluned will want to talkabout some of the work, for instance, in other, non-teaching sectors. But, with regard to ITE, you'll be aware that, in the evaluation report, as I said, that waspublished, the report comes forward with two options in how we could develop an intervention programme to support Welsh language skills amongst all primaryand secondary ITE entrants. So, what we'll be doing now as a result of that report is that we'll be working very closely with our ITE centres to develop and agreeupon minimum provision that constitutes those skill levels within ITE provision for all teachers.Suzy Davies AM: Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Llyr.Llyr GruffyddAM: You have your targets for 2021, in terms of numbers of teachers coming through the system, which is positive, although, clearly, the report or the review


Project Manager: {vocalsound} Good to see you all again . Let's see if that comes up . This is our functional design meeting . Um . Just a sec while my PowerPointcomes up . Et voila . Okay . Mm um we put the fashion in electronics . Let's start . Okay , our agenda today um {disfmarker} just check the time , it's twelvethirteen . Um . I'm gonna do an opening , talk about um {disfmarker} did you all get the minutes ? I e-mailed them to you . I'm also putting 'em {disfmarker}them in the shared folder .User Interface: Yep .Project Manager: So um then I {disfmarker} we'll talk about our general objectivesIndustrial Designer: Right.Project Manager: and have your three presentations . Um I'll talk about the new project requirements I've just received , and then we have to make a decisionon our remote control functions . Finally we'll just close . We're starting this meeting at approximately twelve thirteen and we have forty minutes . So{disfmarker} First of all the functional design objectives . Uh we need to keep in mind the user requirement specification , what needs and desires are to befulfilled , the {gap} functions design , what effects the apparatus should have , and the working design , how the apparatus actually works to fulfil its function .Okay , three presentations , um you can go in any order you choose um .Marketing: {gap} Mm shall we go in the order that you just did it ?Project Manager:Sure , please do .Marketing: I dunno . How do I hook my screen up ?Industrial Designer: I think , you might have to disconnect Rose .Project Manager: Yes I do .Yeah .User Interface: Well there's a wee a wee plug just just that one thereMarketing: Where does it go ? Mm-hmm . Hmm , I'm not supposed to move this ,UserInterface: {vocalsound}Marketing: but {disfmarker}User Interface: Ah that's it , yep .Marketing: {gap}User Interface: And then you have to press function F_eightProject Manager: Function , F_ eight , yeah .User Interface: I think it is on your laptop .Project Manager: The blue one , F_N_ .Marketing: Where's function ?No signal .Project Manager: Is it plugged in all the way and you screwed it in and {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Ah , wait , 's screw in.Industrial Designer: I I think you just have to push it in really hard .Marketing: Push the screw .User Interface: That's it .Industrial Designer: Oh , got it .ProjectManager: Mm 'kay .Marketing: Mm alrightProject Manager: It's taking it a little bit {disfmarker}Marketing: I've never attached to anything .Industrial Designer:Mm , neither have I .Project Manager: 'Kay there you go .Marketing: Alright , so ,Industrial Designer: Alright .Marketing: I don't know if you guys are able to getaccess to um the report that was online or if I'm the only one who is . But , I don't even know how to play this . No .Project Manager: Press the little presentation. It's the um {disfmarker} it looks like a Y_ kind of {disfmarker} over there above Draw . There , that one , there you go .Marketing: Alright . So we're just gonnatalk a little bit about the functional requirements that people specified when they were asked . Um I guess Real Reaction did some market research . They had ahundred subjects and their usability lab and they watched them watch T_V_ and recorded the frequency that they used particular buttons and the relevance thatthose buttons had . What they found was they analysed people's desires and needs . Focusing on their desires , um people specifically said that they thoughtremotes were ugly {vocalsound} , seventy five per cent of the a hundred subjects noted that and that they {disfmarker} more importantly though , eighty percent said that they would be willing to pay more for a fancier looking remote . I don't know anything beyond what fancy means ,Industrial Designer: Hmm.Marketing: but that's particularly of use to us , I think . Um also they did some questions on voice recognition and found that the desire for voice recognition wasinversely related to age , so younger people were more inclined to want something with voice recognition , whereas the older people in the like sixty and abovesegment or so did not really think that they would pay more money for voice recognitions .Industrial Designer: 'Kay .Marketing: Um people also had certainfrustrations , that I think that we could try to take into consideration with our design . That being people k um frustrated with losing their remotes . I think , overfifty percent of the people mentioned that that was their biggest frustration . People are also frustrated with the difficulty it is to learn how to use a remote and Ithink that ties back to what you were saying beforeIndustrial Designer: Hmm .Marketing: just that there's too many buttons , it just needs to be easy to use . Italso mentioned something called R_S_I_ and I was hoping someone might be able to inform me as to what R_S_I_ is ,User Interface: Repetitive strain injury.Marketing: because I don't know .Project Manager: {gap}User Interface: Repetitive strain injury .Marketing: What ? Ah . There we go .User Interface: So if you{disfmarker}Marketing: Wow . People do not like that . So I guess sort of the carpal tunnel type thing , people do not like that , um the repetitive use , I guess ,caused a strain . Um looking at the needs people specified , the problem right now is that people's remotes are not matching their operating behaviour . Peopleare only using ten per cent of the buttons that they have offered to them on their remote . And what people do most often is changing the channel and changingthe volume . People also zap like to change the channel , about um sixty five per cent during an hour of use . So we really just need to focus in on those volumesand channel changers rather than things like the audio settings , the screen settings and the channel settings , because they're used much more infrequently andprobably just complicate what's going on . So I think that some things that we might wanna think about , the idea of an L_C_D_ screen was brought up althoughthey didn't have any details on what people's preferences on that were , so I dunno know if that's coming to me later , or something like that . But something forus to consider also just the phenomenon that less is more when it comes to the buttons on the remote or what we wanna make easiest to use , make sure that ,you know , something like an audio setting isn't given as much importance and visibility on the remote as something like channel changing that's used a lot moreoften . And basically in order for us to win over to the consumer we just need to focus on what it looks like , that it has a fancy appeal and that it's not ugly{vocalsound} and that it feels like the way they're gonna use it , so it doesn't give them any hand injuries or things like that .Industrial Designer: Hmm .ProjectManager: Thank you very much . That was that was great .Industrial Designer: Mm 'kay .Project Manager: Um {vocalsound} 's move on to the next presentationum on effects . Was that you ?Marketing: Hmm .Project Manager: Great .Marketing: Yeah , have I unscrewed it ?Project Manager: Push . User interface , right .Interface .Marketing: Here we go .User Interface: Cheers .Marketing: Mm-hmm . And I think that's in the shared , if I did it right , if anyone wants to look at it.Project Manager: Mm 'kay , thank you .Industrial Designer: Okay , great .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Here we go . Right soI'm gonna talk about the technical technical functions design of the remote control um . We need to start by considering what a remote control actually is . It's adevice that allows us to produce certain effects on our television , so i it's basically a communication device . We we tell the remote control what we want to do , itsends a message to the television saying change the channel , change the volume , uh yeah , adjust these settings , adjust the brightness . Um how do weactually go about designing a new television remote control ? First thing to do is to come up with the design specifications . We need to know what our finalproduct is gonna be like , so we need a a clear idea of exactly what this product does , uh how it works , and what the end-user is gonna want from this product .Um . Oh , a way I'd suggest that we could go about this is by designing uh several different prototypes of user interfaces for this product , um and then uh tryingto get some feedback uh aboutMarketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: h how well these particular prototypes work , uh sorta find out what people think of 'em .Um using a remote control is is quite a subjective experience . Um ,Project Manager: Hmm .User Interface: and different different people sort of prefer differentthings . Um we should remember that remote controls are a a fairly standard piece of equipment . When a users using a remote control , he or she expects thebuttons to be in certain places . So in some sense we're gonna we're gonna have to aim for a device which is fairly conventional in design uh so that we're notcompletely shocking people . But I think within that there is also room for us to introduce novel ideas uh and to make something that's that's perhaps a little bitdifferent , something that stands out . Um also in in designing the user interface we need to consider practicalities . Uh the first of these is is technological ye uhwhat can we do with the current state of technology as it is . The second is is economic , uh we need to find a balance between features and price . So as youmentioned things like voice recognition would would add to the price uh but it would also im improve the design of the product .Project Manager: Hmm .UserInterface: So I had a look on the {disfmarker} on the web uh to see if I could find a few examples of existing television remote controls . In analysing these wecan consider what what things {disfmarker} what's good about them , uh what things do they get right , what's bad about them , what's wrong with 'em , umhow we can improve on the designs that that that I found and what can we do to make our product stand out from from the large majority of remote controls .Here's two examples uh probably at the extreme ends of the spectrum .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Um on the left here we've got uh anengineering-based design for a remote control ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: so it's one that's got lots of buttons , it's it's fully featured ,everything you might possibly want to do is there , you know , it's got forward , backwards , up , down , channel numbers , volume , uh freeze frame . Yeah , it'sit's fully featured and it might take a while to get to learn to use it , but once you've learned it you can {disfmarker} you can do whatever you want with yourT_V_ . The one on the right is a lot more basic . It's just got the essential functions of the T_V_ changing the channel , play , stop , volume . It would be a lotquicker to learn to use it , but again th it's it's swings and roundabouts . There are disadvantages , you can't use it say to to freeze the television picture . Uhthere's a lot of features that are missing from that remote control . So we've got to to find our {disfmarker} find a way of striking a balance between the two . Umas I said before , remote controls are subjective , different people want want different things . Um personally wa what I want from a remote control is a devicethat's simple , it it's easy to use , uh it's got big buttons for doing the things I do most often , changing the volume , changing the channel . It it does everything


Professor B: Are we on ? We 're on . OK .PhD E: Is it on ?PhD D: Yeah .Professor B: Yeah . OK ,PhD D: One , two {disfmarker} u OK .PhD A: Why is it so cold inhere ?Professor B: so , uh , we haven't sent around the agenda . So , i uh , any agenda items anybody has , wants to talk about , what 's going on ?Postdoc G: I cI could talk about the meeting .Grad H: Does everyone {disfmarker} has everyone met Don ?Postdoc G: Yeah .Professor B: It 's on ?PhD C: Now , yeah .PhD D:Yeah .Grad H: Yeah ? OK .PhD D: Yeah .Grad F: Hello .Professor B: OK , agenda item one ,PhD D: We went {disfmarker}Grad F: Yeah .Professor B: introduce Don. OK , we did that . Uh {disfmarker}PhD A: Well , I had a {disfmarker} just a quick question but I know there was discussion of it at a previous meeting that Imissed , but just about the {disfmarker} the wish list item of getting good quality close - talking mikes on every speaker .Professor B: OK , so let 's {disfmarker}let 's {disfmarker} So let 's just do agenda {pause} building right now . OK , so let 's talk about that a bit .PhD A: I mean , that was {disfmarker}Professor B: Uh, @ @ tuss close talking mikes , better quality . OK , {vocalsound} uh , we can talk about that . You were gonna {disfmarker} starting to say something ?PostdocG: Well , you {disfmarker} you , um , already know about the meeting {comment} that 's coming up and I don't know if {disfmarker} if this is appropriate forthis . I don't know . I mean , maybe {disfmarker} maybe it 's something we should handle outside of the meeting .Professor B: No , no , that 's OK .PhD E: Whatmeeting ?Professor B: We can {disfmarker} so {disfmarker} we can ta so n NIST is {disfmarker} NIST folks are coming by next weekPostdoc G: OK .Professor B:and so we can talk about that .Postdoc G: Yeah .Professor B: I thinkPhD E: Who 's coming ?Professor B: Uh , uh , John FiscusPostdoc G: Mm - hmm .Professor B:and , uh , I think George Doddington will be around as well . Uh , OK , so we can talk about that . Uh , I guess just hear about how things are going with , uh , uh, the transcriptions . That 's right .Postdoc G: Sure . Mm - hmm .Professor B: That would sorta be an obvious thing to discuss . Um , An - anything else , uh ,strike anybody ?PhD A: Uh , we started {pause} running recognition on {pause} one conversation but it 's the r {pause} isn't working yet . So , But if anyone has{disfmarker}Professor B: OK .PhD E: WhaPhD A: uh , the main thing would be if anyone has , um , knowledge about ways to , uh , post - process the wave formsthat would give us better recognition , that would be helpful to know about .Professor B: Um ,Grad H: Dome yeah , it sounds like a topic of conversation.Professor B: Yeah , so , uh {disfmarker}PhD E: What about , uh , is there anything new with the speech , nonspeech stuff ?PhD C: Yeah , we 're working more onit but , {vocalsound} it 's not finished .Professor B: OK . Alright , that seems like a {disfmarker} a good collection of things . And we 'll undoubtedly think of{pause} other things .Postdoc G: I had thought under my topic that I would mention the , uh , four items that I {disfmarker} I , uh , put out for being on theagenda f on that meeting , which includes like the pre - segmentation and the {disfmarker} and the developments in multitrans .Professor B: Oh , under the NISTmeeting .Postdoc G: Yeah , under the NIST thing .Professor B: OK .Postdoc G: Yeah .Professor B: Alright , why don't we start off with this , u u I guess the orderwe brought them up seems fine .Postdoc G: Yeah .Professor B: Um , so , better quality close talking mikes . So the one issue was that the {disfmarker} the , uh ,lapel mike , uh , isn't as good as you would like . And so , uh , it {disfmarker} it 'd be better if we had close talking mikes for everybody . Right ?PhD A: Ri - um,Professor B: Is that {disfmarker} is that basically the point ?PhD A: yeah , the {disfmarker} And actually in addition to that , that the {disfmarker} the closetalking mikes are worn in such a way as to best capture the signal . And the reason here is just that for the people doing work not on microphones but on sort oflike dialogue and so forth , uh {disfmarker} or and even on prosody , which Don is gonna be working on soon , it adds this extra , you know , vari variable foreach speaker to {disfmarker} to deal with when the microphones aren't similar .Professor B: Mm - hmm .Grad H: Right .PhD A: So {disfmarker} And I also talkedto Mari this morning and she also had a strong preference for doing that . And in fact she said that that 's useful for them to know in starting to collect their datatoo .Professor B: Mm - hmm . Right , so one thGrad H: Well , so {disfmarker}Professor B: uh , well one thing I was gonna say was that , um , i we could get more, uh , of the head mounted microphones even beyond the number of radio channels we have because I think whether it 's radio or wire is probably second - order. And the main thing is having the microphone close to you ,PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor B: u although , not too close .Grad H: Right , so , uh , actually the wayJose is wearing his is {disfmarker} is c {pause} correct .PhD D: Yeah . Is {disfmarker}Grad H: The good way . So you want to {disfmarker}Professor B: Yeah.PhD D: I it 's not cor it 's correct ?Professor B: Is .Grad H: Yeah , th that 's good .Professor B: Yes .PhD D: Yeah .Grad H: So it 's towards the corner of yourmouth so that breath sounds don't get on it .PhD D: Yeah . Yeah .Grad H: And then just sort of about , uh , a thumb or {disfmarker} a thumb and a half awayfrom your {disfmarker} from your mouth .PhD D: Yeah . Yeah . Uh , yeah .Professor B: Right .PhD A: But we have more than one type of {disfmarker}ProfessorB: How am I dPhD A: I mean , for instance , you 're {disfmarker}PhD C: Yeah .Grad H: And this one isn't very adjustable ,PhD D: Yeah .Grad H: so this about asgood as I can getPhD A: Right .PhD D: Yeah .Grad H: cuz it 's a fixed boom .PhD D: Is fixed . Yeah .PhD A: But if we could actually standardize , you know , the{disfmarker} the microphones , uh , as much as possible that would be really helpful .Professor B: Yeah .PhD E: Mm - hmm .PhD D: Yeah .Grad H: Mm - hmm.Professor B: Well , I mean it doesn't hurt to have a few extra microphones around ,PhD D: Yeah .Professor B: so why don't we just go out and {disfmarker} andget an order of {disfmarker} of if this microphone seems OK to people , uh , I 'd just get a half dozen of these things .Grad H: Well the onl the only problem withthat is right now , um , some of the Jimlets aren't working . The little {disfmarker} the boxes under the table .Professor B: Yeah .Grad H: And so , w Uh , I 'veonly been able to find three jacks that are working .Professor B: Yeah .PhD E: Can we get these , wireless ?Grad H: So {disfmarker}Professor B: No , but mypoint is {disfmarker}PhD A: But y we could just record these signals separately and time align them with the start of the meeting .Professor B: R r right{disfmarker}Grad H: I {disfmarker} I 'm not sure I 'm follow . Say that again ?Professor B: Right now , we 've got , uh , two microphones in the room , that arenot quote - unquote standard . So why don't we replace those {disfmarker}Grad H: OK , just two .Professor B: Well , however many we can plug in . You know ,if we can plug in three , let 's plug in three .Grad H: OK .PhD D: Mm - yeah .Professor B: Also what we 've talked before about getting another , uh , radio ,GradH: Right .Professor B: and so then that would be , you know , three {pause} more .Grad H: Right . OK .PhD D: Mm - hmm .Professor B: So , uh {disfmarker} sowe should go out to our full complement of whatever we can do , but have them all be the same mike . I think the original reason that it was done the other waywas because , it w it was sort of an experimental thing and I don't think anybody knew whether people would rather have more variety or {disfmarker}{vocalsound} or , uh , more uniformity ,PhD A: Right .Professor B: but {disfmarker} @ @ {comment} but uh , sounds {disfmarker} sounds fine .Grad H: Soundslike uniformity wins .PhD D: Right .PhD A: Well , for short term research it 's just {disfmarker} there 's just so much effort that would have to be done up front nuh ,Professor B: Yeah .Grad H: Well {disfmarker}PhD A: so {disfmarker} yeah , uniformity would be great .Grad H: Yeah .PhD E: Is it because {disfmarker} You{disfmarker} you 're saying the {disfmarker} for dialogue purposes , so that means that the transcribers are having trouble with those mikes ? Is that what youmean ?PhD A: Well Jane would know more about the transcribers .PhD E: Or {disfmarker} ?Postdoc G: And that 's true . I mean , I {disfmarker} we did discussthis . Uh , and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker}Grad H: Yep . Couple times .Postdoc G: a couple times , so , um , yeah , the transcribers notice {disfmarker} And infact there 're some where , um {disfmarker} ugh well , I mean there 's {disfmarker} it 's the double thing . It 's the equipment and also how it 's worn .PhD A:Right .Postdoc G: And he 's always {disfmarker} they always {disfmarker} they just rave about how wonderful Adam 's {disfmarker} Adam 's channel is .Grad H:What can I say .Postdoc G: And then ,PhD A: So does the recognizer .Professor B: Yeah .Postdoc G: Yeah .Grad H: Oh , really ? Yeah , I 'm not surprised . I mean, " Baaah ! "PhD A: Even if {disfmarker} if you 're talking on someone else 's mike it 's still {pause} you wPostdoc G: Yeah , but I mean it 's not just that , it 'salso you know youProfessor B: Yeah .PhD C: Yeah .Postdoc G: It 's also like n no breathing , no {disfmarker} You know , it 's like it 's {disfmarker} it 's um,Professor B: Yeah .Postdoc G: it 's really {disfmarker} {nonvocalsound} it makes a big difference from the transcribers ' point of viewGrad H: Yeah , it 's anadvantage when you don't breath .Postdoc G: and also from the research s point of view .PhD A: Right .Professor B: When we 're doing {disfmarker}Grad H:Yeah , I think that the point of doing the close talking mike is to get a good quality signal . We 're not doing research on close talking mikes .Postdoc G: Yeah.Professor B: Yeah .Grad H: So we might as well get it as uniform as we can .PhD A: Right .Professor B: Now , this is locking the barn door after the horse wasstolen . We do have thirty hours , of {disfmarker} of speech , which is done this way .Grad H: Yeah .PhD A: That 's OK .Professor B: But {disfmarker} but , uh ,yeah , for future ones we can get it a bit more uniform .PhD A: Great , great .Grad H: So I think just do a field trip at some point .Professor B: Yeah , probably{disfmarker} yeah , to the store we talked about and that {disfmarker}Grad H: Yep .Postdoc G: And there was some talk about , uh , maybe the h headphonesthat are uncomfortable for people , to {disfmarker}Grad H: Yep . So , as {disfmarker} as I said , we 'll do a field trip and see if we can get all of the same mikethat 's more comfortable than {disfmarker} than these things , which I think are horrible .Postdoc G: OK . Good .Grad H: So .PhD A: Great , thank you very much.PhD E: Especially for people with big heads .PhD A: It 's makes our job a lot easier .Professor B: OK . OK .Grad H: And , you know , we 're researchers , so we allhave big heads .Professor B: OK .PhD E: Yeah .Professor B: Yeah . Uh , OK , second item was the , uh , NIST visit , and what 's going on there .Postdoc G: Yeah .OK , so , um , uh , Jonathan Fiscus is coming on the second of February and I 've spoken with , uh , {pause} u u a lot of people here , not everyone . Um , and ,


PhD A: OK , we 're on .Professor C: OK , what are we talking about today ?PhD B: I don't know . Do you have news from the conference talk ? Uh , that wasprogrammed for yesterday {disfmarker} I guess .Professor C: Uh {disfmarker}PhD D: YesterdayProfessor C: Uh {disfmarker}PhD D: Yesterday morning on videoconference .Professor C: Uh ,PhD B: WellProfessor C: oh , I 'm sorry .Grad E: Oh . Conference call .Professor C: I know {disfmarker} now I know what you 'retalking about . No , nobody 's told me anything .PhD B: Alright .PhD A: Oh , this was the , uh , talk where they were supposed to try to decide {disfmarker}PhDB: To {disfmarker} to decide what to do ,PhD A: Ah , right .PhD B: yeah .PhD D: Yeah .Professor C: Yeah . No , that would have been a good thing to find outbefore this meeting , that 's . No , I have no {disfmarker} I have no idea . Um , Uh , so I mean , let 's {disfmarker} let 's assume for right now that we 're justkind of plugging on ahead ,PhD B: Yeah .Professor C: because even if they tell us that , uh , the rules are different , uh , we 're still interested in doing what we're doing . So what are you doing ?PhD B: Mm - hmm . Uh , well , we 've {disfmarker} a little bit worked on trying to see , uh , what were the bugs and theproblem with the latencies .PhD D: To improve {disfmarker}PhD B: So , We took {disfmarker} first we took the LDA filters and , {vocalsound} uh , we designednew filters , using uh recursive filters actually .Professor C: So when you say " we " , is that something Sunil is doing or is that {disfmarker} ?PhD B: I 'm sorry?Professor C: Who is doing that ?PhD B: Uh , us . Yeah .Professor C: Oh , oh . Oh , OK .PhD B: So we took the filters {disfmarker} the FIR filters {vocalsound}and we {comment} designed , uh , IIR filters that have the same frequency response .PhD D: But {disfmarker}Professor C: Mm - hmm .PhD B: Well , similar ,but that have shorter delays .Professor C: Mm - hmm .PhD B: So they had two filters , one for the low frequency bands and another for the high frequency bands. And so we redesigned two filters . And the low frequency band has sixty - four milliseconds of delay , and the high frequency band filter has something likeeleven milliseconds compared to the two hundred milliseconds of the IIR filters . But it 's not yet test . So we have the filters but we still have to implement aroutine that does recursive filteringProfessor C: OK .PhD B: and {disfmarker}Professor C: You {disfmarker} you had a discussion with Sunil about this though?PhD B: No . No .Professor C: Uh - huh . Yeah , you should talk with him .PhD B: Yeah , yeah .Professor C: Yeah . No , I mean , because the {disfmarker} the{disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the whole problem that happened before was coordination ,PhD B: Mm - hmm .Professor C: right ? So {disfmarker} so you needto discuss with him what we 're doing ,PhD B: Yeah .Professor C: uh , cuz they could be doing the same thing and {disfmarker} or something .PhD B: Mm - hmm. Uh , I {disfmarker} yeah , I don't know if th that 's what they were trying to {disfmarker} They were trying to do something different like taking , uh{disfmarker} well , using filter that takes only a pastProfessor C: Right .PhD B: and this is just a little bit different . But I will I will send him an email and tell himexactly what we are doing , so .Professor C: Yeah , yeah . Um ,PhD B: Um ,Professor C: I mean {disfmarker} We just {disfmarker} we just have to be in contactmore . I think that {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the fact that we {disfmarker} we did that with {disfmarker} had that thing with the latencies was indicative ofthe fact that there wasn't enough communication .PhD B: Mm - hmm .Professor C: So .PhD B: Alright .Professor C: OK .PhD B: Um , Yeah . Well , there is w one ,um , remark about these filters , that they don't have a linear phase . So ,Professor C: Right .PhD B: Well , I don't know , perhaps it {disfmarker} perhaps itdoesn't hurt because the phase is almost linear but . Um , and so , yeah , for the delay I gave you here , it 's {disfmarker} it 's , uh , computed on the five hertzmodulation frequency , which is the {disfmarker} mmm , well , the most important for speech so . Uh , this is the first thing .Professor C: So that would be , uh ,a reduction of a hundred and thirty - six milliseconds ,PhD D: The low f fPhD B: Yeah .Professor C: which , uh {disfmarker} What was the total we ended up withthrough the whole system ?PhD B: Three hundred and thirty .Professor C: So that would be within {disfmarker} ?PhD B: Yeah , but there are other points actually, uh , which will perhaps add some more delay . Is that some other {disfmarker} other stuff in the process were perhaps not very {disfmarker} um perf well , notvery correct , like the downsampling which w was simply dropping frames .Professor C: Yeah .PhD B: Um , so we will try also to add a nice downsampling havinga filter that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker}Professor C: Uh - huh .PhD B: well , a low - pass filter at {disfmarker} at twenty - five hertz . Uh , because wh when{disfmarker} when we look at the LDA filters , well , they are basically low - pass but they leave a lot of what 's above twenty - five hertz .Professor C: Yeah .PhDB: Um , and so , yeah , this will be another filter which would add ten milliseconds again .Professor C: Yeah .PhD B: Um , yeah , and then there 's a third thing , isthat , um , basically the way on - line normalization was done uh , is just using this recursion on {disfmarker} on the um , um , on the feature stream ,ProfessorC: Yeah .PhD B: and {disfmarker} but this is a filter , so it has also a delay . Uh , and when we look at this filter actually it has a delay of eighty - five milliseconds. So if we {disfmarker}Professor C: Eighty - five .PhD B: Yeah . If we want to be very correct , so if we want to {disfmarker} the estimation of the mean t t to{disfmarker} to be {disfmarker} well , the right estimation of the mean , we have to t to take eighty - five milliseconds in the future . Mmm .Professor C: Hmm !That 's a little bit of a problem .PhD B: Yeah . Um , But , well , when we add up everything it 's {disfmarker} it will be alright . We would be at six so , sixty - five ,plus ten , plus {disfmarker} for the downsampling , plus eighty - five for the on - line normalization . So it 'sProfessor C: Uh ,PhD B: plus {disfmarker} plus eightyfor the neural net and PCA .Professor C: yeah , but then there 's {disfmarker} Oh .PhD B: So it would be around two hundred and forty {disfmarker} so , well,Professor C: Just {disfmarker} just barely in there .PhD B: plus {disfmarker} plus the frames , but it 's OK .PhD A: What 's the allowable ?Professor C: Two - fifty, unless they changed the rules .PhD B: Hmm .Professor C: Which there is {disfmarker} there 's some discussion of .PhD A: What were they thinking of changingit to ?Professor C: But {disfmarker}PhD B: Yeah .Professor C: Uh , well the people who had very low latency want it to be low {disfmarker} uh , very{disfmarker} {vocalsound} very very narrow , uh , latency bound . And the people who have longer latency don't . So .PhD A: Huh .PhD B: So , yeah .ProfessorC: Unfortunately we 're the main ones with long latency , butPhD A: Ah !Professor C: But , uh ,PhD B: Yeah , and basically the best proposal had something likethirty or forty milliseconds of latency .Professor C: you know , it 's {disfmarker} Yeah .PhD B: So . Well .Professor C: Yeah , so they were basically {disfmarker} Imean , they were more or less trading computation for performance and we were , uh , trading latency for performance . And they were dealing with noiseexplicitly and we weren't , and so I think of it as complementary , that if we can put the {disfmarker}PhD A: Think of it as what ?Professor C: Complementary.PhD A: Hmm .Professor C: I think the best systems {disfmarker} so , uh , everything that we did in in a way it was {disfmarker} it was just adamantly insistingon going in with a brain damaged system , which is something {disfmarker} actually , we 've done a lot over the last thirteen years . Uh , {vocalsound} which iswe say , well this is the way we should do it . And then we do it . And then someone else does something that 's straight forward . So , w th w this was a test thatlargely had additive noise and we did {disfmarker} we adde did absolutely nothing explicitly to handle ad additive noise .PhD A: Right .Professor C: We just , uh ,you know , trained up systems to be more discriminant . And , uh , we did this , uh , RASTA - like filtering which was done in the log domain and was tending tohandle convolutional noise . We did {disfmarker} we actually did nothing about additive noise . So , um , the , uh , spectral sub subtraction schemes a coupleplaces did seem to seem to do a nice job . And so , uh , we 're talking about putting {disfmarker} putting some of that in while still keeping some of our stuff . Ithink you should be able to end up with a system that 's better than both but clearly the way that we 're operating for this other stuff does involved some latencyto {disfmarker} to get rid of most of that latency . To get down to forty or fifty milliseconds we 'd have to throw out most of what we 're doing . And {disfmarker}and , uh , I don't think there 's any good reason for it in the application actually . I mean , you 're {disfmarker} you 're {disfmarker} you 're speaking to arecognizer on a remote server and , uh , having a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a quarter second for some processing to clean it up . It doesn't seem like it 's thatbig a deal .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor C: These aren't large vocabulary things so the decoder shouldn't take a really long time , and .PhD A: And I don't thinkanybody 's gonna notice the difference between a quarter of a second of latency and thirty milliseconds of latency .Professor C: So . No . What {disfmarker} whatdoes {disfmarker} wa was your experience when you were doing this stuff with , uh , the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the surgical , uh , uh , microscopes andso forth . Um , how long was it from when somebody , uh , finished an utterance to when , uh , something started happening ?PhD A: Um , we had a silencedetector , so we would look for the end of an utterance based on the silence detector .Professor C: Mm - hmm .PhD A: And I {disfmarker} I can't remember nowoff the top of my head how many frames of silence we had to detect before we would declare it to be the end of an utterance .Professor C: Mm - hmm . Mm -hmm .PhD A: Um , but it was , uh , I would say it was probably around the order of two hundred and fifty milliseconds .Professor C: Yeah , and that 's when you'd start doing things .PhD A: Yeah , we did the back trace at that point to get the answer .Professor C: Yeah . Of course that didn't take too long at that point .PhDA: No , no it was pretty quick .Professor C: Yeah .PhD A: So {disfmarker}Professor C: Yeah , so you {disfmarker} you {disfmarker} so you had aPhD A: thiswProfessor C: so you had a {disfmarker} a quarter second delay before , uh , plus some little processing time ,PhD A: Right .Professor C: and then the{disfmarker} the microscope would start moving or something .PhD A: Right .Professor C: Yeah .PhD A: Right .Professor C: And there 's physical inertia there , soprobably the {disfmarker} the motion itself was all {disfmarker}PhD A: And it felt to , uh , the users that it was instantaneous . I mean , as fast as talking to aperson . It {disfmarker} th I don't think anybody ever complained about the delay .Professor C: Yeah , so you would think as long as it 's under half a second or


Project Manager: Think we can first {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: Right it was function F_ eight or something .Industrial Designer:ThaUser Interface: This one right there .Industrial Designer: Okay .User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: Who is gonna do a PowerPoint presentation ?UserInterface: Think we all {gap} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: You will as well ?User Interface: Huh . Oh I thought we all were .Industrial Designer: Okay .UserInterface: Yeah , I have one too , okay .Project Manager: {gap} .User Interface: SIndustrial Designer: Yep .Marketing: {gap} .User Interface: Whoops I forgot toput the thing on {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Project Manager: Right . I just wanna {disfmarker} 'cause basically I can't re I've {disfmarker} really crap atremembering everyone's name so I just wanna {disfmarker} rather than going uh Miss Marketing and Miss this and Miss that {vocalsound} wanted to know yournames again .User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: Okay I'm {disfmarker}Project Manager: {gap} just gonna leave this up here 'cause I'll {vocalsound} youknow . So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Okay .User Interface: Yeah . Sure , that's a good idea .Industrial Designer: I'm Catherine with a C_ . C_A_T_H_ E_R_I_N_E_ .Project Manager: Okay , andUser Interface: Uh Gabriel .Project Manager: Gabriel . E_L_ is it ?User Interface: E_L_ .Project Manager: 'Kay . And you're sr R_E_I_S_S_ {vocalsound} {gap}Marketing: I am Reissa . R_E_I_S_S_A_ . Double S_ A_ , yeah {vocalsound} yeah . Sorry .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing:{vocalsound}Project Manager: 'S just a bit nicer calling people by their names I think .Industrial Designer: Right .User Interface: {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: True .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh , right .Marketing: Mm 'kay .Project Manager: Okay , right , welcome to meeting B_ . Um this is gonna go a lotbetter than the last meeting , basically ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: uh 'cause I know what I'm supposed tobe doing now .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} I am your Project Manager , and , uh yeah , I'm justhere toIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {gap} sort of liaise between the three of you and get things going , get people talking and and I'mgonna be making notes and sending them off to the powers that be and stuff basically . Um right , this {disfmarker} for the purposes of this meeting{disfmarker} what this meeting is all about is um I'm gonna have some presentations from all three of you , what you've been working on for the last wee while ,when you haven't been getting hit with spam on your computers and and , you know , filling out silly questionnaires and things .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: But hopefully you've been {disfmarker} actually been doing something productive . So we're gonna{disfmarker} each of you gonna give us a litt a little presentation . {vocalsound} Um .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: Then we're gonna {vocalsound} work ,you know , from each of your presentations . We'll we'll uh talk about what we actually need as a final coming together of it all . Um and then we'll , yeah , we'll{gap} sort of conclude {gap} anything else comes up at the end of it .Industrial Designer: How long is the meeting ?Project Manager: This meeting it's not verylong . It's uh probably down to about thirty five minutes now . So I want each of your presentations to not be too long , five five minutes , something like that.Industrial Designer: Okay . {vocalsound} No problem . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um if you haven't done a PowerPoint thingy , it doesn't matter , it it just itjust says that you {disfmarker} it's {disfmarker} that's just one particular medium . If you haven't had time to prepare one , you can draw stuff on the noteboard, you can talk to us , you can {disfmarker} you know however you want to do your little presentation , basically , you can . Don't feel pressurised into using thisthing . 'Cause I don't .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh okay . So um . You okay over there ? Reissa ,Marketing: I'm fine .Yeah .Project Manager: are you uh b are you joining in with this meeting hereMarketing: I uh yeah , yeah .Project Manager: or are y or are y or are you are youjust are you just uh doing some Internet shopping there ? {vocalsound}User Interface: Think she's finishing up her presentation .Marketing: D I mean , I I'mfinishing off my presentation .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: No no . {vocalsound} Uh I'm done . Okay .Project Manager: Okay , jolly good . Alright, let's have um {disfmarker} well , we all know that it's it's a remote control that we're gonna be dealing with .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: I think the firstthing we should look at is um {vocalsound} probably the um what it is that it is actually supposed to be . So that's gonna be you Catherine ,Industrial Designer:Okay .Project Manager: if we wanna hear from you first .Industrial Designer: Okay . Um just connecting this .Project Manager: You don't have to worry aboutscrewing it in just {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Are we getting i Really ?Project Manager: there you go .Industrial Designer: Okay . Cool . Okay . So I've got avery quick uh {disfmarker} Uh . Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So the working design , I've got a very quick presentation on this , so umI've {disfmarker} oh no , you can't see a thing . {vocalsound} Oh well , I'm gonna draw it on the board then . It's in blue uh , and I couldn't change it .UserInterface: Oh . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Ah .Industrial Designer: We it's fine on my screen , but never mind . So um {vocalsound} the idea is that we'vegot the energy source um , which in our case will pr , oh well {disfmarker} okay , never mind . So um I think maybe uh two batteries , I dunno what they'recalled {gap} six , or something like that .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Uh and then {vocalsound} um then on the uh remote control itself willhave um the sender for the signal , which could be uh an infra-red signal , um which will be sent by an electronic chip . And uh the chip will be controlled by theuser interface . So we'll hear about that later from Gabriel .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: And uh the sender will send to the telly itself aninfra-red signal to tell it to switch on or switch channels . Um and that's it really for the working design .Project Manager: Great . Okay .Industrial Designer: Sorrythe presentation wasn't very uh clear but {disfmarker}Project Manager: I prefer the pe I prefer the human touch personally .Industrial Designer: Really ? Cool.Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Um , should I erase this or {disfmarker}Project Manager: Do you wanna just give us a moment , I just wanna copythis down .Industrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: Um I dunno if you guys have got any questions for Catherine on any of this ?Industrial Designer: Fine .{vocalsound} Or suggestions ?Marketing: Is a battery like the only way of {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Well , it's just , you don't want it plugged in really ,sUser Interface: Yeah , alternate energy source , like win wind power or {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah , you blow on it and i{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: In indoors . {vocalsound}Marketing: No , no {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} Bicycle power .Marketing: No I meantlike {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: No 'cause like cha 'cause {disfmarker} always changing um um batteries can get like annoying.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: The battery's down and {disfmarker} maybe {vocalsound} , I dunno , solar charged ? {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: I dunno , swi I th I th I think changing your batteries once every six months is not really a pain , but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah , it's workedfor the last fifty years you know .Marketing: Mm . Yeah .User Interface: One question I have , and I don't know how much control we have over this is um , as faras the infra-red signal , do we have control over , you know , how far away you can be from the receiving unit , the the T_V_ , and still have it be operational ? Imean , maybe we want one with a strong signal stream .Project Manager: How far away is your television ?Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: It's nevergonna be more than it's never gonna be , you kno unless you've got a T_V_ the size of a football pitch , it's not {disfmarker} doesn't have to go that far ,UserInterface: Uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Well , the thing is uh you you don't {disfmarker}Project Manager: does it ? Doesn't have to go through a wall ,because you're not gonna be looking through a wall .User Interface: That's true .Marketing: Yeah , but if like you're on the phone in the other room and you needturn television off or something and you don't really want to go into the {disfmarker} put the telephone down , and go into the other room .{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Well , we can make the the signal strong enough to go through walls if if you fancy it . I didn't think about that but{disfmarker}Marketing: How about Bluetooth ? {gap} Instead of using infra-red , use Bluetooth .Industrial Designer: Why not ? I just think that it's it's gonnacost moreMarketing: Isn't that a better signal ?Project Manager: Yeah , yeah I d it sounds like you {gap} you w don't wanna overcomplicate things .IndustrialDesigner: and I'm I'm not sure it's {disfmarker} you're gonna use it .Marketing: Mm {vocalsound} .Project Manager: You know we don't need it .IndustrialDesigner: It's a fancy idea uh it's quite nice , but then I don't th I dunno , either you {disfmarker} if you wanna watch the telly you're in the room ,ProjectManager: Yeah , exactly .Industrial Designer: you are gonna {disfmarker}Project Manager: Basically , we're we're desi we're designing and marketing a televisionremote control unit .Industrial Designer: But {disfmarker}Project Manager: We're not w w w w designing something that you can plug in a headset to and andyou know connect to your laptop computer and stuff . It's uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: Oh , we can we can keep the idea if you i We cansee at a later stage , maybe , I don't {disfmarker}Marketing: 'S just an idea .Project Manager: Okay . Right , well done , Catherine . Um Gab Gabriel let's uh let'shear from you on on on such things .User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: Do you need the border ?User Interface: Uh I'm just gonna use the PowerPoint uh.Industrial Designer: Okay . {vocalsound} Sorry .User Interface: Technical {gap} . Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: Okay , so , whilethis is warming up ,Marketing: Adjusting .User Interface: there it is uh .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: So I'm doing the user interface design .Project Manager:Mm-hmm .User Interface: Yeah , and basically uh , as far as methods , I was I was looking looking at looking at uh already existing remotes , trying to find someinspiration from designs that are already out there . Thinking of what we can retain , what we can do away with , uh what we what we can perfect a little bit as faras design um . {gap} we don't want to do something that's too radical of a change , I guess , I mean people want a remote that's familiar , that has their


Grad B: Sorry . Mental {disfmarker} mental Palm Pilot . Right . Hence {pause} no problem .Grad F: Let 's see . So . What ? I 'm supposed to be on channel five ?Her . Nope . Doesn't seem to be ,Grad B: Hello {pause} I 'm channel one .Grad F: yeah .Grad D: Grad E: What does your thing say on the back ?Grad D: Testing.Grad F: Nnn , five . Alright , I 'm five .Grad D: Sibilance . Sibilance . {comment} {pause} Three , three . I am three .Grad B: Eh .Grad D: See , that matches theseat up there . So .Grad F: Yeah , well , I g guess {pause} it 's coming up then , or {disfmarker}Grad D: Cuz it 's {disfmarker} That starts counting from zeroand these start counting from one . Ergo , the classic off - by - one error .Grad B: But mine is correct .Grad D: Is it ?Grad E: No .Grad B: It 's one . Channel one.Grad D: Your mike {pause} number {pause} is what we 're tGrad E: Look at the back .Grad B: Oh , oh , oh ! Oh .Grad D: Ho !Grad B: So {disfmarker}Grad D: I've bested you again , Nancy .Grad B: But your p No , but the paper 's correct .Grad D: The paper is correct .Grad B: Look at the paper .Grad D: I didn't det I wassaying the microphone , not the paper .Professor C: Nnn ,Grad B: Oh .Professor C: it 's nGrad B: OK .Professor C: It 's always offset . Yeah .Grad B: Yes , you 'vebested me again . That 's how I think of our continuing interaction . Damn ! Foiled again !Grad D: So is Keith showing up ? He 's talking with George right now .Uh , is he gonna get a rip {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} rip himself away from {disfmarker} from that ?Grad B: He 'll probably come later .Professor C: What{disfmarker} He - he he 's probably not , is my guess .Grad D: Oh , then it 's just gonna be the five of us ?Professor C: Yeah .Grad E: Well , he {disfmarker} hewas very affirmative in his way of saying he will be here at four . But {pause} you know , that was before he knew about that George lecture probably .ProfessorC: Right . This {disfmarker} this is not {disfmarker} It 's not bad for the project if Keith is talking to George . OK . So my suggestion is we justGrad B: Forgeahead .Professor C: Forge ahead , yeah .Grad E: Cool .Grad B: Are you in charge ?Grad E: Sure . Um . Well , I sort of had informal talks with most of you . So ,Eva just reported she 's really happy about the {pause} CBT 's being in the same order in the XML as in the um {disfmarker} be Java declaration formatGrad F:Yeah . The eGrad E: so you don't have to do too much in the style sheet transversion .Grad F: Uh , yeah . Yeah , so .Grad E: The {disfmarker} uh , Java{disfmarker} the embedded Bayes {pause} wants to take input {disfmarker} uh , uh , a Bayes - net {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} in some Java notation and Evais using the Xalan style sheet processor to convert the XML that 's output by the Java Bayes for the {disfmarker} into the , uh , E Bayes input .Grad D: Mmm.Grad F: Actually , maybe I could try , like , emailing the guy and see if he has any something already .Professor C: Sure .Grad E: Hmm .Grad F: That 'd be weird, that he has both the Java Bayes and the embedded Bayes in {disfmarker}Grad D: But that 's some sort of conversion program ?Grad F: Yeah . Yeah . And putthem into different {pause} formats . Oh {disfmarker}Grad D: I think you should demand things from him .Grad F: Yep , he could do that , too .Professor C: Hecharges so much . Right .Grad D: Yeah .Professor C: No , I think it 's a good idea that you may as well ask . Sure .Grad F: Yeah .Grad E: And , um , well {pause}pretty mu pretty much on t on the top of my list , I would have asked Keith how the " where is X ? " {pause} hand parse is standing . Um . {pause} But we 'llskip that . Uh , there 's good news from Johno . The generation templates are done .Grad D: So the trees {pause} for {disfmarker} the XML trees for the{disfmarker} for the gene for the synthesizer are written . So I just need to {pause} do the , uh {disfmarker} write a new set of {pause} tree combining rules .But I think those 'll be pretty similar to the old ones . So . Just gonna be {disfmarker} you know {disfmarker}Professor C: Oh ! You were gonna send me a noteabout hiring {disfmarker}Grad E: Yes .Professor C: I didn't finish the sentence but he understood it .Grad D: I know what he 's talking about .Professor C: OK .But Nancy doesn't .Grad B: Hiring somebody .Grad E: We {disfmarker} w um {disfmarker}Grad D: The guy .Grad E: OK , so {pause} natural languagegeneration {pause} produces not a {disfmarker} just a surface string that is fed into a text - to - speech but , a {pause} surface string with a syntax tree that 'sfed into a concept - to - speech .Professor C: No .Grad B: Yeah . Mm - hmm . Better .Grad E: Now and this concept - to - speech module has {pause} certainrules on how {pause} if you get the following syntactic structure , how to map this onto prosodic rules .Grad B: Mm - hmm . Sure . Mm - hmm .Grad E: And Feyhas foolheartedly agreed to rewrite uh , the German concept uh syntax - to - prosody rules {disfmarker}Grad B: I didn't know she spoke German .Grad E: No ,she doesn't .Grad B: Oh , OK .Grad E: But she speaks English .Grad B: Oh . Rewrite the German ones into English . OK , got it .Grad E: Into English . And umtherefore {pause} the , uh {disfmarker} if it 's OK that we give her a couple of more hours per week , then {pause} she 'll do that .Grad B: OK , got it .Grad D:What {pause} language is that {pause} written i Is that that Scheme thing that you showed me ?Grad E: Yeah . That 's the LISP - type scheme .Grad D: Sheknows how to program in Scheme ? I hope ?Grad E: No , I {disfmarker} My guess is {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I asked for a commented version of that file ? Ifwe get that , then it 's {pause} doable , even without getting into it , even though the Scheme li uh , stuff is really well documented in the {pause} Festival .GradD: Well , I guess if you 're not used to functional programming , Scheme can be completely incomprehensible . Cuz , there 's no {disfmarker} Like {pause} there's lots of unnamed functionsProfessor C: Syntax . Yeah .Grad D: and {disfmarker}Grad B: Mm - hmm .Grad D: You know ?Professor C: Anyway , it {disfmarker}We 'll sort this out . Um . But anyway , send me the note and then I 'll - I 'll check with , uh , Morgan on the money . I {disfmarker} I don't anticipate anyproblem but we have to {pause} ask . Oh , so this was {disfmarker} {nonvocalsound} You know , on the generation thing , um if {comment} sh y she 's reallygoing to do that , then we should be able to get prosody as well . So it 'll say it 's nonsense with perfect intonation .Grad D: Are we gonna {disfmarker} Can wechange the voice of the {disfmarker} of the thing , because right now the voice sounds like a murderer .Grad E: Yep . We ha we have to change the voice .GradB: Wh - Which one ?Grad D: The {disfmarker} the little Smarticus {disfmarker} Smarticus sounds like a murderer .Grad B: Oh .Grad A: That 's good to know.Grad D: " I have your reservations . "Grad A: But I will not give them to you unless you come into my lair .Grad E: It is {disfmarker} Uh , we have the choicebetween the , uh , usual Festival voices , which I already told the SmartKom people we aren't gonna use because they 're really bad .Grad B: Festival ?ProfessorC: It 's the name of some program ,Grad B: Oh , oh . Got it . OK .Professor C: the {disfmarker} the synthesizer .Grad A: You know , the usual party voices .GradE: But , umGrad B: Yeah , I know . That doesn't sound , {vocalsound} exactly right either .Grad E: OGI has , uh , crafted a couple of diphone type voices that arereally nice and we 're going to use {pause} that . We can still , um , d agree on a gender , if we want . So we still have male or female .Grad B: I think{disfmarker} Well , let 's just pick whatever sounds best .Grad E: Hmm ?Grad B: Whatever sounds best .Grad E: Uh .Grad B: Unfortunately , probably malevoices , a bit more research on .Grad D: Does OGI stand for {disfmarker} ? {comment} Original German Institute ?Professor C: OregoGrad B: So .Professor C:OrGrad E: Oregon .Grad B: Oregon Graduate InstiProfessor C: Oregon @ @ {comment} Graduate InstituteGrad D: Oh .Grad E: Try Oregon .Grad D: Ah.Professor C: It turns out there 's the long - standing links with these guys in the speech group .Grad B: Hmm !Professor C: Very long .Grad D: Hmm !Grad E:Hmm .Professor C: In fact , there 's this guy who 's basically got a joint appointment , Hynek {pause} Hermansky . He 's - spends a fair amount of time here .Anyway . Leave it . Won't be a problem .Grad E: OK . And it 's probably also absolutely uninteresting for all of you to , um learn that as of twenty minutes ago ,David and I , per accident , uh managed to get the whole SmartKom system running on the {disfmarker} uh , ICSI Linux machines with the ICSI NT machinesthereby increasing the number of running SmartKom systems in this house from {pause} one on my laptop to three .Grad B: Mmm , that 's good .Grad D: Howwas this by accident ?Grad B: Yeah , I know . Tha - that 's the part I didn't understand .Grad E: Um , I suggested to try something that was really kind of{disfmarker} even though against better knowledge shouldn't have worked , but it worked .Grad B: Hmm !Grad E: Intuition .Grad A: Yeah .Grad B: Will it workagain ,Grad E: Maybe {disfmarker} maybe {disfmarker} maybe a bit for the AI i intuition thing .Grad B: or {disfmarker} ?Grad D: Yeah .Grad E: OK . And , um ,we 'll never found out why . It - it 's just like why {disfmarker} why the generation ma the presentation manager is now working ?Grad A: Hmm ! This issomething you ha you get used to as a programmer , right ?Grad E: WhichGrad A: You know , {comment} and it 's cool , it works out that way .Grad E: Hmm .So , {vocalsound} the {disfmarker} the people at Saarbruecken and I decided not to touch it ever again . Yeah , that would work . OK . Um {disfmarker} I wasgonna ask you where something is and what we know about that .Grad A: Where {disfmarker} OK .Grad B: Where the " where is " construction is .Grad A: What{disfmarker} what thing is this ?Grad E: Where is X ?Grad A: OK .Grad E: Oh , but by {disfmarker} Uh , we can ask , uh , did you get to read all four hundredwords ?Professor C: I did .Grad E: Was it OK ? Was it ?Professor C: Yeah .Grad D: I {disfmarker} I wa I was looking at it . It doesn't follow logically . It doesn't{disfmarker} The first paragraph doesn't seem to have any link to the second paragraph .Grad A: And so on .Professor C: Yeah .Grad D: Yeah .Grad E: Hmm .That {disfmarker}Professor C: You know , i Yeah , it {disfmarker}Grad D: Each paragraph is good , though . I liProfessor C: I i Yeah . Well , it it 's fine .Grad A: Itwas written by committee .Professor C: Anyway . Um . But c the meeting looks like it 's , it 's gonna be good . So . I think it 's uh {disfmarker}Grad E: Yeah .GradB: Yeah , I didn't know about it until {pause} Robert told me , like , Professor C: Yeah , I {disfmarker} I ra I ran across it in {disfmarker} I don't even knowwhere , you know {disfmarker} some just {disfmarker} some weird place . And , uh , yeah , I I 'm surprised I didn't know about itGrad B: Y yeah . Well , yeah . Iwas like , why didn't Dan tell me ?Professor C: since we know all the invited speakers , anGrad A: Right .Professor C: Right , or some Anyway . So {disfmarker}But anyway , yeah . I so I {disfmarker} I did see that . Oh wha Yeah . Before we get started on this st so I also had a nice email correspondence with Daphne


Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay ? Good afternoon . Hope you have good lunch .User Interface: Hi .Industrial Designer: Afternoon . Yeah , we had falafel.Project Manager: Oh . Nice . And you ?User Interface: Uh , yes , I had something similar but non-vegetarian .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay . So today isum our third meeting . It will be about the conceptual design {vocalsound} uh . If I come back to uh the minutes of the last meetings um . We decided not to gofor speech recognition technologies because of some reasons and we are not decided about u the use of L_C_D_ screen on on the remote control because of costs. So maybe we cou wi will be able to clarify this this question to today . Uh at the end of the meeting we should take decision on that point . So I hope uh thatyour respective pr presentations uh will help us . So each of you have some presentatio presentation to perform um who starts ?Marketing: Okay , {gap} .ProjectManager: So marketing .Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} So you are {disfmarker} yousaved your y your presentation somewhere ?Marketing: Yep .Project Manager: So you're four ?Marketing: Four , yeah .Project Manager: Which is trend watch .{vocalsound} Okay . Mr Marketing Experts .Marketing: Yeah that's me .Project Manager: So {gap} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Uh . Well I investigatethe preference more d I investigate deeper the preference of the users . Uh so the the current investigation th uh th uh sorry the current the n current trends?User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Yeah ? Okay . {vocalsound} {gap} Okay . {vocalsound} Well wha {vocalsound} what I found{disfmarker} um can you {disfmarker}Project Manager: Next slide ? Yeah .Marketing: Yeah . Thank you . What I found in order of importance from less to moreimportant is that people want an easy to use device . After they they want something new technologic technologically speaking , but the most {disfmarker} whatthey what they find more more interesting , more {disfmarker} or more important it's uh a fancy look and feel instead of uh instead of the current the currenttrend which was f the functional look and feel .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: So now more more cool aspect , ma more {disfmarker} a cooleraspect uh rather than a device with many functions and many buttons with {disfmarker} instead of i instead of ha of a device which can do many things , a devicewhich is pleasant to to watch , to see .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Uh also {disfmarker} Well {vocalsound} in in Euro in in Paris and and {vocalsound}Milan the {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: in Paris and in Paris and Milan the the currenttrend of {gap} uh of clothes , furniture and all this all this fashion it's {vocalsound} it's fruit and the the the theme is fruit and vegetables .User Interface:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: And also {vocalsound} in the in the U_S_A_ the the current {disfmarker} the mor the most popular feeling it's it'sa spongy . Spongy means eponge ?Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Marketing: So maybe we should we should think in in this direction , so {disfmarker}UserInterface: What what do you mean by {vocalsound} fruit and vegetables and spongy ?Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: What {disfmarker} you meanclotheIndustrial Designer: Spongy means it it's like spMarketing: Fruit vegetables is the the new {disfmarker} have you seen the last exposition of clothes inMilan ?User Interface: No , I missed that one .Marketing: Yeah , I I didn't miss an {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: I didn't miss and I saw that the fruit , there are many fr pictures of fruits and vegetables in the clothes.User Interface: Oh , they're {disfmarker} okay so they're not like dressed as a carrot they just have like pictures of fruit on , okay .Marketing: No no , not notyet , not yet .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah , yeah .User Interface: So we're not gonna have a remote control in the shape of of a banana,Marketing: So te textu textures , yeah .User Interface: just maybe {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Vegetable texturesand all this kind .Project Manager: Drawings of bananas .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Uh {vocalsound}UserInterface: Okay and {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Project Manager: Uh-huh .Marketing: yeah , yeah .Industrial Designer: But what's your suggestion how we canhave some shape like that on the remote ?Project Manager: Well so this is in the next slide certainly .Marketing: Uh no no , it's not .Project Manager: It's not ?{vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} It's {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: So which fruit are you thinking of ?Marketing:And {disfmarker} Um .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {gap} I ha I haven't thought of any particular fruit , but thegeneral aspect of the of the remote control may may {disfmarker} could remind some kind of vegetable , some kind of instead of vegetable , some natur mm uhnatural object or something .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Marketing: But yeah it it depends on the {disfmarker}Project Manager: So maybe you maybe youcan display a banana on the L_C_D_ . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Oh , so you want the remote control to be the shape of a fruit ,Project Manager:{vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: or you want just some kind of like fruit logo on the {disfmarker} {gap}Industrial Designer: Means buttons are in theshape of fruits ,Marketing: Yeah maybe the shape the shape {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: buttons are in the frape {disfmarker} shape of fruits or something ,apple , banana , something like that .Marketing: No , not n not not too much focus , not too much focu not n not too s not too similar to a fruit because next yearthe ten the trend the trend will be different .Project Manager: Apple for channel one . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm.Marketing: So we shouldn't be at re really attached to to the trendUser Interface: So something that looks half like a fruit and half like an elephant .{vocalsound}Marketing: but {disfmarker} For instance , yeah . African or as an elephant ?Industrial Designer: That we can discuss afterwards {vocalsound}.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay .User Interface: But {disfmarker} okay ,Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: I'm not , I'm not really sure if uh thatwould really appeal to everyone though , maybe just to fashion gurus , like maybe just like a little bit n a little fruit picture somewhere in the corner , but I don'tknow about uh I dunno how ergonomic a , an orange is .Marketing: Well ma maybe we we should further specify what target are we focusing . I think in myopinion we should focus on on young people because they are more open to new devi new devicesUser Interface: To fruit ?Marketing: and also yeah according tothe marketing report ninety p ninety five percent of young people was {vocalsound} was was able to to buy a a n a cooler remote control .User Interface: But is ituh is fruit cool ?Marketing: What ?Project Manager: That's a question .Marketing: What ?User Interface: Is fruit cool ?Marketing: Yeah ? Uh {disfmarker} Is thenew trend of the {disfmarker}User Interface: Well I guess , you know , Apple has the iPod so , {vocalsound} imagi {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}UserInterface: just 'cause they have an apple on their on their product , doesn't mean fruit is cool . {vocalsound}Marketing: No I think we we should think about a ashape with it {disfmarker} a device with a shape of some {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay , but it has to be easy to uh to use though and to hold you know ,you don't wanna pear or a watermelon . {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah . Don don't you think we can find uh the shape of a fruit which is handy to use ?UserInterface: Well , probably the only thing is a banana that I can think of ,Industrial Designer: Banana .User Interface: a cucumber .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Maybe too long .User Interface: I dunno .Marketing: Or mUser Interface: Maybe . Too green .Marketing: Maybe . {vocalsound}ProjectManager: {vocalsound}User Interface: So , but I mean you also have to {disfmarker} you have to also have , fit r all the buttons and {disfmarker} you know.Project Manager: A banana .Marketing: Um {disfmarker}User Interface: It's , it {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: The thing is you have t normallywith um with buttons , they have to be at some point attached to a circuit board so if you're gonna have things like {gap} on a cylindrical kind of device it may bedifficult to kind of to build .Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I don't th it will be rolling a lot .Marketing: Yeah but I li I like youridea that we shouldn't have a lot of buttons b buttons soProject Manager: Okay . Yeah and you you you will not have pla enough {disfmarker} a lot of place to puta L_C_D_ on a banana also .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Uh do you want a an L_C_D_ with twenty five Euros ? {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Well , you're the Marketing Expert you should tell us if it is too much or not .User Interface: Well , this is {disfmarker}Marketing: I think {disfmarker} Well ,according to the to the report people are more interested in in a fa fancy look and feel and in a technological inno in innovation ,Project Manager:{vocalsound}Marketing: so , I will give more importance to the look and feel than {disfmarker} rather than theProject Manager: {vocalsound} So {disfmarker}So you you you suggest to go fMarketing: new inputs and also it's {disfmarker} I'm not convinced about this L_C_D_ because you need uh internet connection ,you need more things , it's not just buying a new control re remote , you need {disfmarker} buying control remote , buying uhProject Manager: Okay .{vocalsound} S so you're simplyMarketing: more things . It's not so simple .Project Manager: you're simply looking s to a remote control that looks like a bananawith few buttons {disfmarker} with only a few buttons .Marketing: For instance , yeah . Yeah for for for {disfmarker} given an an example yeah .{vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay good . So maybe you can go ahead ?Marketing: Yeah no , it's what I already said .Project Manager: Okay . {vocalsound}Thanks . Um . Okay , I'll give the floor . So you are User Interface guy . So you're three ?User Interface: Okay . Yeah .Project Manager: And it's this one .UserInterface: Yep .Project Manager: Go for it .User Interface: {vocalsound} Yep . Okay . So . S next uh slide . Okay . So I received an email um around lunchtimeletting me know that the brilliant minds at our technology division had developed an integrated programmable sample sensor sample speaker unit , um which is away for you to have a conversation with your coffee machine and or remote control {vocalsound} .Industrial Designer: But it's just a speaker right ?UserInterface: It's {disfmarker} no , what it is , it's it's very {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: It's not a microphone .User Interface: It has a has a microphone , has a