Grad G: Time .Grad C: Thanks .Grad G: Are you Fey ?Undergrad D: I am Fey , yeah .Grad G: Oh .Grad B: What day is today ?Undergrad D: Hi .Grad G: Hi . Ithink we 've met before , like , I remember talking to you about Aspect or something like that at some point or other .Undergrad D: A couple times yeah .Grad F:It 's the uh twenty {disfmarker} nineteenth .Grad B: Nineteenth ?Undergrad D: That 's right , yeah .Grad G: So .Undergrad D: And you were my GSI briefly ,until I dropped the class .Grad F: Grad B: Right , right .Grad G: Oh that 's right .Undergrad D: But .Grad G: Well .Grad C: OK , wh whGrad G: No offense .Grad C:Yeah .Grad G: Like .Grad C: OK . Some in some introductions are in order .Grad G: Oh , OK sorry .Grad C: OK .Grad G: Getting ahead of myself .Grad C: So . Um. For those who don't know {disfmarker} Everyone knows me , this is great . Um , apart from that , sort of the old gang , Johno and Bhaskara have been with usfrom {disfmarker} from day oneGrad G: Yay !Grad E: Hi .Grad C: and um they 're engaged in {disfmarker} in various activities , some of which you will hearabout today . Ami is um our counselor and spiritual guidance and um also interested in problems concerning reference of the more complex type ,PhD A: Well.Grad E: Oh wow .Grad C: and um he sits in as a interested participant and helper . Is that a good characterization ?PhD A: u That 's pretty good , I think .GradC: I don't know .PhD A: Yeah . Thanks .Grad C: OK . Keith is not technically one of us yet ,Grad E: Not yet .Grad C: ha - ha . but um it 's too late for him now.Grad G: " One of us . "Grad C: So .Grad E: Yeah right . I 've got the headset on after all .Grad C: Um . Officially I guess he will be joining us in the summer .GradE: yes .Grad C: And um hopefully it is by {disfmarker} by means of Keith that we will be able to get a b a better formal and a better semantic um idea of what aconstruction is and um how we can make it work for us . Additionally his interest um surpasses um English because it also entails German , an extra capability ofspeaking and writing and understanding and reading that language . And um , is there anyone who doesn't know Nancy ? Do you {disfmarker} do you knowNancy ?Grad G: Me ?Grad E: I know Nancy .Grad G: Mm - hmm .Grad B: I made that joke already , Nancy , sadly .Grad C: OK .Grad G: What ?Grad B: The " Idon't know myself " joke .Grad G: You did ? When ?Grad B: Uh before you came in .Grad G: Oh .Grad E: Man !Grad G: About me or you ?Grad B: About me .GradG: OK . {vocalsound} OK .PhD A: You could do it about you .Grad B: Yeah .Grad G: Well I didn't know . I didn't mean to be humor copying , but OK , sorry . Yes ,I know myself . It 's OK .Grad C: OK .Grad G: It 's a {disfmarker}Grad C: And um Fey is with us as of six days ago officially ?Undergrad D: Officially ,Grad C:Officially ,Undergrad D: yeah .Grad C: but in reality already um much much longer and um um next to some {disfmarker} some more or less bureaucratic uhstuff with the {disfmarker} the data collection she 's also the wizard in the data collection Um ,Grad G: Of Oz .Undergrad D: It 's very exciting .Grad C: we 'resticking with the term " wizard " ,Undergrad D: Yes .Grad C: OK .Undergrad D: Yes .Grad C: and umGrad G: Not witch - like .Grad B: Wizardette .Grad E: Wizard.Grad F: Wizardess .Grad C: Sorceress , I think .Grad G: OK .Undergrad D: Wizard .Grad C: wizard uh by by popular voteGrad G: OK .Grad C: umGrad G: Didn'ttake a vote ? OK .Grad C: OK , um , why don't we get started on that subject anyways . Um , so we 're about to collect data and um the uh s the following thingshave happened since we last met . When will we three meet again ? And umGrad G: More than three of us .Grad C: what happened is that um , " A " ,{comment} there was some confusion between you and Jerry with the {disfmarker} that leading to your talking to Catherine Snow , and he was uh he{disfmarker} he agreed completely that some something confusing happened . Um his idea was to get sort of the l the lists of mayors of the department , thestudents . It {disfmarker} it 's exactly how you interpreted it , sort of sGrad E: The list of majors in the department ?Undergrad D: M m Majors ?Grad C: Ma -majors , majors .Undergrad D: Majors ?Grad C: " Mayors " .Undergrad D: OK , mayor {disfmarker}Grad C: Majors .Undergrad D: Something I don't know abouttheseGrad G: The department has many mayors .Grad C: Majors and um just sending the {disfmarker} the little write - up that we did on to those emaillistsUndergrad D: OK . OK . Yeah , yeah , yeah . But {disfmarker} Yeah .Grad C: uh {disfmarker}Undergrad D: So it was really Carol Snow who was confused ,not me and not Jerry .Grad C: Yep , yep , yep . OK . So . So , that is uh {disfmarker}Undergrad D: That 's good . So I should still do that .Grad C: Yep .UndergradD: OK .Grad C: And {disfmarker}Undergrad D: And using the thing that you wrote up .Grad C: Yep .Undergrad D: OK .Grad C: Wonderful . And um we have alittle description of asking peop subjects to contact Fey for you know recruiting them for our thing and um there was some confusion as to the consent form ,which is basically that {disfmarker} that what what you just signedGrad G: Right .Grad C: and since we have one already um {disfmarker}Grad G: Did Jerry talkto you about maybe using our class ? the students in the undergrad class that he 's teaching ?Grad C: Um well he said um we {disfmarker} definitely " yes ",Grad G: eGrad C: however there is always more people in a {disfmarker} in a facul uh in a department than are just taking his class or anybody else 's class atthe momentGrad G: Yeah .Grad C: and one should sort of reach out and try and get them all .Grad G: OK , but th I guess it 's that um people in his class cover adifferent set so {disfmarker} than the c is the CogSci department that you were talking about ?Undergrad D: I guess . SeeGrad G: uh reaching out to ?UndergradD: that 's what I suggested to him , that people like {disfmarker} like Jerry and George and et cetera just {disfmarker}Grad G: Cuz we have you know peoplefrom other areasGrad C: Yeah .Grad G: advertise in their classes as well .Undergrad D: Yeah or even I could {disfmarker} you know I could do the actual{disfmarker}Grad C: Mm - hmm .Grad G: Cuz I mean I {disfmarker} I know how to contact our students ,Undergrad D: That 's generally the way it 's done .GradG: so if there 's something that you 're sending out you can also s um send me a copy ,Grad C: Yeah .Grad G: me or Bhaskara could {disfmarker} either of uscould post it to uh is it {disfmarker}Undergrad D: A mailing list .Grad G: if it 's a general solicitation that you know is just contact you then we can totally pro postit to the news groupGrad C: Mm - hmm . Yeah .Undergrad D: Yeah .Grad G: so .Grad C: Do it . Yeah .Undergrad D: That 's {disfmarker}Grad G: OK , so you 'llsend it or something so .Grad C: As a matter of fact , if you {disfmarker}Undergrad D: I can send it .Grad C: if {disfmarker}Undergrad D: I 'll send it ,Grad G:You can send it to me .Grad C: Now , iUndergrad D: yeah .Grad G: OK . Don't worry , we {disfmarker} this doesn't concern you anymore , Robert .Grad C: How{disfmarker} however I suggest that if you {disfmarker} if you look at your email carefully you may think {disfmarker} you may find that you already have it.Grad G: It 's fine . Oops . Already ? Really ?Grad C: Maybe .Undergrad D: ProbabGrad G: Oops .Grad C: OK . W we 'll see .Grad G: I don't remember gettinganything .Grad C: Anyhow , um the uh Yeah , not only Also we will talk about Linguistics and of course Computer Science .Grad G: Mm - hmm .Grad C: Um andthen , secondly , we had , you may remember , um the problem with the re - phrasing , that subject always re - phrase sort of the task that uh we gave them,Grad B: Right .Grad C: and so we had a meeting on Friday talking about how to avoid that , and it proved finally fruitful in the sense that we came up with a newscenario for how to get the {disfmarker} the subject m to really have intentions and sort of to act upon those , and um there the idea is now that next actually we{disfmarker} we need to hire one more person to actually do that job because it {disfmarker} it 's getting more complicated . So if you know anyone interested in{disfmarker} in what i 'm about to describe , tell that person to {disfmarker} to write a mail to me or Jerry soon , fast . Um {vocalsound} the idea now is to sortof come up with a high level of sort of abstract tasks " go shopping " um " take in uh a batch of art " um " visit {disfmarker} do some sightseeing " blah - blah -blah - blah - blah , sort of analogous to what Fey has started in {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} in compiling {disfmarker} compiling here and already {disfmarker}she has already gone to the trouble of {disfmarker} of anchoring it with specific um o {comment} um entities and real world places you will find in Heidelberg .And um . So out of these f s these high level categories the subject can pick a couple , such as if {disfmarker} if there is a cop uh a category in emptying your rollof film , the person can then decide " OK , I wanna do that at this place " , sort of make up their own itinerary a and {disfmarker} and tasks and the person is notallowed to take sort of this h high level category list with them , but uh the person is able to take notes on a map that we will give him and the map will be atourist 's sort of schematic representation with {disfmarker} with symbols for the objects . And so , the person can maybe make a mental note that " ah yeah Iwanted to go shopping here " and " I wanted to maybe take a picture of that " and " maybe um eat here " and then goes in and solves the task with the system ,IE {comment} Fey , and um and we 're gonna try out that {disfmarker} Any questions ?Grad G: so um y you 'll have those say somewhere what their intentionwas {disfmarker} so you still have the {disfmarker} the nice thing about having data where you know what the actual intention was ?Grad C: Mm - hmm . Yeah.Grad G: But they will um {disfmarker} There 's nothing that says you know " these are the things you want to do " so they 'll say " well these are the things Iwant to do " and {disfmarker} Right , so they 'll have a little bit more natural interaction ?Grad C: Hopefully .Grad G: OK . Mm - hmm .Grad F: So they 'll begiven this map , which means that they won't have to like ask the system for in for like high level information about where things are ?Grad C: Yeah it 's aschematic tourist map . So it 'll be uh i it 'll still require the {disfmarker} that information and AnGrad G: It w it doesn't have like streets on it that would allowthem to figure out their way {disfmarker}Grad C: N not {disfmarker} not {disfmarker} not really the street network . Nuh .Grad G: OK .Grad E: So you 're justsaying like what part of town the things are in or whatever ?Grad C: Yeah a and um the map is more a means for them to have the buildings and their names andmaybe some ma ma major streets and their namesGrad G: Mm - hmm .Grad C: and we want to maybe ask them , if you have {disfmarker} get it sort of isolatedstreet the {disfmarker} the , whatever , " River Street " , and they know that {disfmarker} they have decided that , yes , that 's where they want to do this kindof action um that they have it with them and they can actually read them or sort of have the label for the object because it 's too hard to memorize all these st


Project Manager: Good .Industrial Designer: Beep . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Oh .Project Manager: So well uhUser Interface: What ?Project Manager: welcomeeveryone .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Um as you may have noticed I uhUser Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}ProjectManager: created separate folders because it was uh tending to get a little busy in our uh shared project documents uh folder .User Interface: Yeah .ProjectManager: I don't know if everybody uh put their own uh documents in the right folder , which is for now the detailed design meeting .Marketing: That's new one?Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: We didn't make any uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Uh , we should save that one . {vocalsound}User Interface: Ohin {disfmarker}Project Manager: Then I'll move this one .User Interface: Didn't we just do that ?Industrial Designer: Yeah , save in the folder . Save as project.User Interface: Oh .Project Manager: Oh no , this is just one big document , so you can leave that wherever it is .Industrial Designer: Oh , okay .ProjectManager: {vocalsound} And we have a evaluation left here .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Hmm hmm .Project Manager: Okay .IndustrialDesigner: Agenda .Project Manager: Well not main documents this time . Oh uh yes .User Interface: Hmm ?Project Manager: I have it open myself I guess . Umwell the detailed design meeting {disfmarker} Huh ? We're finally getting somewhere hopefully .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Um what are we going to do ? I've opened it already . Um I'm still going to take some minutes , and if I'm right , you two aregoing to give a prototype presentation ?Industrial Designer: Oh , sorry .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {gap}Project Manager: Aren't you ?UserInterface: We could . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yes , you are .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: And uh m did you dosomething with evaluation criteria ?Marketing: Yep . Yep .Project Manager: Good . And we have a correct agenda . And uh then we have to look at somethingwhich is less nice , the finance uh aspect , whether we can afford what we have designed ,User Interface: Oops . {vocalsound}Project Manager: and if we can wecan uh commence the final part which is the production or project evaluation , how did we work together and what are the results , and how happy are we withthose . Okay , well finance uh will be later . Now I'd like to give the word to you two .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Okay .User Interface:{vocalsound} Well uhIndustrial Designer: Get up stand up . {gap} just {disfmarker}User Interface: we made a prototype .Industrial Designer: 'Kay .UserInterface: We first start with the overall uh {disfmarker} This is about the total remote control .Industrial Designer: View .User Interface: We made it green.Industrial Designer: Just example colour ,User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: so uh there's one of the colours we would like to uh see in our prototype.User Interface: It's a fresh colour . And uh the screen light blue . Oh uh this the scroll button and the microphone on the on the sides here under . And the R_and R_ logo , it just says R_ and R_ now , but uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Okay ?User Interface: Any questions so far ? {vocalsound}Marketing: Bigmicrophone .Industrial Designer: {gap} yeah ,User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: just uh just an idea about how to m th that could also be possible.Marketing: Oh okay . That's the place where it's going to be , not the size . {gap}User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Uh well , it's an idea in a{disfmarker} so .User Interface: Oh y you {disfmarker} perhaps you should make it a bit big , so people know it's there and uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer:Do not forget it .User Interface: Uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: To function it it doesn't really have to be sm uh big of course .UserInterface: Hmm .Marketing: Yeah , okay . Of course .Industrial Designer: The microphone could be just a minor uh hole uh on the left uh button .Marketing: Mm .Mm , th yeah .Industrial Designer: Okay umMarketing: Small .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} we also made some uh ideas about how uh the options menuwould work . Uh using the scroll button on sides uh y uh I uh um {gap} {disfmarker}User Interface: You push the scroll buttonIndustrial Designer: Yeah , youpush the scroll buttonUser Interface: and it's claps out if there's a {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and a drop down menu or a pull out menucomes out and uh you get uh you get the options uh becoming available . For example uh T_V_ settings , uh remote settings , et cetera .User Interface: Remotesettings , et cetera . Yeah .Industrial Designer: So uh you can scroll down too with the scroll uh button , uh as you can see {disfmarker} oh , it's here , just pushit in , uh the menu comes out like this and uh i it all becomes visible . Um {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah . And you could also touch it so that it comes out,Industrial Designer: Yeah , that's cUser Interface: and and use the the the scroll thing as a {disfmarker} with your fingers .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Indeed.User Interface: Yes .Industrial Designer: Okay , um it's also uh nice to see that um we made a small uh menu , uh the options menu uh becoming available whenpressing the uh scroll uh button , and the opportunity to use the teletext , whi which is used uh {disfmarker} which should still be used and we think that it's uhvery handy to put it uh not uh under the options menu , but in uh {disfmarker} Yes . In an apart uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: So aseparate button for for text ,Industrial Designer: In a separate button , yeah . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: okay .User Interface: Perhapswe should use the teletext sign in p yeah .Industrial Designer: A sign , yeah , just like {disfmarker} Okay , indeed .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer:Okay ,User Interface: Forgot . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: we can uh modify that later . Okay . Would you like to make any comments about next uh{disfmarker}User Interface: Uh well , this is the total interface uh that f of the L_C_D_ screen . Uh the numbers , which is pretty straight forward . We put ano anan extra button in . We can erase it , but {disfmarker} It's the button where you can switch channels . {gap} just when you are one and you go to two , you can{disfmarker} or if you go to five , you can go back to one with that button . Yeah , that one , yeah .Industrial Designer: Previous page , yeah , indeed .UserInterface: It has a name . And uh uh we put that in ,Industrial Designer: Oh my God .User Interface: I thought it would be handy there . Uh this the one numberor two numbers button . Below that , the page and the sound . And uh in the middle the the mute . Uh battery indicator . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} It's quite large .User Interface: It's {vocalsound} it's a bit big .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}And this is the uh the on off uh knop , the stand by uh knop . Or at least it should look like it . And the options uh of teletext .Industrial Designer: Okay . You cansee very clearly now that the uh teletext and options menu isn't uh taking uh much uh {disfmarker} uh it's taking much part of the screen , so it's very uh{disfmarker} when you uh {vocalsound} when you use it , doesn't uh become irritating to see .User Interface: Huh .Industrial Designer: 'Cause if you put it onthe top you always get see the the options menu . 'Cause people regularly uh read from left top to right down ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer:so {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah . Well this about it , I think .Industrial Designer: Okay . Huh .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Thank you . Looks good.User Interface: I will put it back on the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} on the nice green .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: And I just missedwhen I was typing {disfmarker} The R_R_ stands for ?Industrial Designer: {gap}User Interface: That's the logo of the {disfmarker}Project Manager: Logo , okay. {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah . It's th th right now it's only R_ R_ , but uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay well{disfmarker} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Full screen .Project Manager: I would have recognised it if it were the right colours of course .{vocalsound}Marketing: Shit .User Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Alright . {vocalsound}User Interface: Sorry . {vocalsound}Marketing: 'Kay. {gap}Project Manager: Okay , the evaluation criteria ,User Interface: Oh full screen , yeah {vocalsound} {gap} .Industrial Designer: Huh .Project Manager: huh?Marketing: Evaluation . 'Kay , my task was this time to put up a questionnaire by which we can evaluate the design of the remote control by the questions we{gap} {disfmarker} requirements from the {disfmarker} of the users . My name , my job , okay .Industrial Designer: My name , my job . {vocalsound}UserInterface: {vocalsound}Marketing: The methods . Questionnaire with seven point scale from one to seven , from true to false ,User Interface: Right .Marketing:like question , is remote big enough , we can say it's true or it's false by steps . One means absolutely not true , seven {gap} {disfmarker} means true .UserInterface: Yeah .Marketing: The three important things of refa {vocalsound} {gap} are uh from th of this year is {disfmarker} are ,Industrial Designer:{vocalsound} Sorry ,User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: you used the PowerPoint {gap} {disfmarker}Marketing: is the remotecontrol fancy enough ,User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: is it in innovative enough , and is it easy enough to use . And then evaluation itself . Uh .User Interface:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: What ? {vocalsound}Marketing: So .Industrial Designer: Bling .Marketing: Okay .User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: Firstquestion . Is the design fancy enough ?User Interface: Well {disfmarker}Marketing: Project Manager , what do you think ?Project Manager: Well it's {disfmarker}looks fancy , especially with the green colour . And the the curves which we decided ,User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .Marketing: But does it{disfmarker}Project Manager: huh ?Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Only what happened to the single curve we spoke about last meeting ?User Interface: Ituh {disfmarker} oh it's in the background . Oh .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Now uh the single curved idea was uh {disfmarker} Yeah , okay , you ge um{disfmarker}User Interface: Y you should make uh a sideways uh view .Industrial Designer: Yeah . The sideways view , uh that that that maUser Interface: It willbe , I guess . Oh , we can {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Ho not that pen . {vocalsound} Not that pen . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}UserInterface: OhMarketing: {vocalsound} {gap} {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} WellUser Interface: g {vocalsound} I would {vocalsound}{disfmarker} smart board .Project Manager: it might work one time , huh . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Suppose so .User Interface:


Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee. We've received apologies for absence fromJanet Finch-Saunders, and also from Dawn Bowden, and I'd like to welcome Huw Irranca-Davies, who is substituting for Dawn Bowden. Can I ask Members ifthere are any declarations of interest, please? No. Okay. We'll move on, then, to our evidence session for our inquiry on school improvement and raisingstandards. I'd like to welcome Kirsty Williams AM, Minister for Education, and Steve Davies, director of education. Thank you both for attending and for yourdetailed paper in advance of the meeting. We've got a lot of ground to cover, so we'll go straight into questions, if that's okay. If I can just start by asking you: towhat extent is the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development still involved in the Welsh Government's school improvement journey?Kirsty WilliamsAM: First of all, can I thank the committee for their invitation this morning, and their interest in this particular area? As you will be aware, on coming into office,the director and I agreed to ask the OECD to do a rapid review of the state of Welsh education at the beginning of this Assembly term. They did that, and thefeedback from that work informed the publication and content of the national mission. I was very clear in the national mission that I would invite the OECD backto review our progress against that mission, and that has happened in the tail end of last year, and the OECD will publish their latest report on Welsh educationnext month now, in March. So, the expectation is that the report will be published on 23 March, and my intention is to make a statement to the Chamber on 24March. The nature of that review is part of our ongoing development of self-evaluation. So, we talk a lot about self-evaluation in the school system. Actually, thecontinuing relationship with OECD is about self-evaluation of the entirety of the system and Welsh Government. We don't want to accept our own orthodoxy andjust be in a bubble where we are constantly listening to ourselves and those people who might want to agree with us or tell us what we want to hear. So, theOECD is our best attempt of having some external verification of where we are. That's a risk for Ministers and for Government, because we want them to give anhonest evaluation of where we are, but that's a really important tool for me, to ensure that we're constantly testing ourselves. The nature of that review is thatthe OECD were able to talk to whoever they felt it was important to talk to, so that included practitioners on the ground, elements of the middle tier, as well asWelsh Government. And I know, Chair—I hope you'll be pleased to hear this—that the reports of this committee have formed parts of their review, looking at howthe Senedd itself has contributed to and has held the Government to account. So, as I said, we expect our report to be published towards the end of March.LynneNeagle AM: Okay, thank you, Minister. Can I ask about the powers under the School Standards and Organisation (Wales) Act 2013, to ask you to tell us about theuse of those powers either by Welsh Government or by local authorities, and how effective you feel that legislation has been?Kirsty Williams AM: Okay. Well, asyou'll be aware, local authorities have quite extensive powers of intervention in schools if they feel that is necessary. If I'm honest, I think there's a mixed picture,with some local authorities using those powers not on a regular basis, but obviously demonstrating a willingness to use those powers. There are other localauthorities who don't seem to have used them. Since that legislation came into being, there have been a number of reasons, because of course a local authorityhas to give a reason for using those powers of intervention. They usually focus on standards, but sometimes they focus on a breakdown in governancearrangements, perhaps, or a failure or a breakdown in financial management. So, sometimes the budgetary issues trigger an intervention power. And the types ofinterventions that have been used have included, in some cases, appointing additional governors to governing bodies, or suspending a school's delegated budgetso the local authority takes on, then, financial control of that particular school, or sometimes applying to the Welsh Government to entirely replace a governingbody and establish an intervention board. So, if I can give you an example of where that's been used and has been successful, in Flintshire. They applied to WelshGovernment for two interim executive boards, in Sir Richard Gwyn Catholic High School and in Ysgol Trefonnen. They applied to us. Those governing bodies weredissolved. The IEBs were put in place and both of those schools, which had been in special measures, moved quite rapidly, actually, out of special measures.Perhaps the most recent example of this is one that the Chair will know very well in her own constituency of Torfaen, in Cwmbran High School, where Torfaen hasintervened in that case. The Welsh Government has not used those powers to date. My expectation always is that local authorities should be the first port of call,and I would encourage—and we always encourage—local authorities to take a proactive approach to intervention and to use those powers. But it's my belief thatit is they who are best placed initially to do that.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you, Minister. Can I ask, then, about the national evaluation and improvement resourceand how significant a role that will play in the raising of school standards, and how you feel it's evolved since it was first conceived?Kirsty Williams AM: So, thisbrings us back to the principle of self-evaluation and something, if we're honest, we've not been very good at. If you look at a number of chief inspectors' reportsinto the Welsh education system, self-evaluation has always been identified as something that is missing or underdeveloped in our system to date, hence, then,the work to establish not a new approach, but a more robust approach to self-evaluation. We've done that in conjunction, again, with the OECD, middle tier andpractitioners. It's really important, throughout the entirety of our reform journey that that's done in co-construction, because we want this resource to be usablein schools. So, it's all very well having a conceptual idea and people outside the classroom working on it, but if it's of no practical use to a school leadership team,then we won't see the impact. So, it's—. We're in phase 2 at the moment, where we're doing—. So, the initial resource has been developed by the OECD, middletier and practitioners. We're in the testing phase at the moment and having it evaluated itself, with a view to introducing that resource across the system at thestart of the new academic year, in September 2020. I truly believe that, if we're to make progress in Welsh education, we have to develop the skills within oursystem to have robust self-evaluation. This resource gives us continuity of approach right the way across Wales. So, it's not left to an individual school to come upwith a system; it's right the way across the system. My hope would be that those principles could then be applied to local education authorities, to regional schoolimprovement services and Welsh Government as part of a whole-system approach to self-evaluation. I don't know if there's anything more you want to add,Steve.Steve Davies: Just to add that the other critical partners are Estyn themselves.Kirsty Williams AM: Oh, yes, sorry.Steve Davies: So, they have played acritical role and, as we know, as the Minister has said in the past, she may introduce policy and practice, but if Estyn are part of it then schools, usually, becausethey recognise that it will be part of the inspection process—it gives it greater push and support around it. So, they've been key players within it.Kirsty WilliamsAM: And I think, if I just say as well, that the external perception of what that's about is really important. It's not a test of school readiness for reform, it is agenuine attempt for a school to evaluate their strengths, their weaknesses and where they need to go next. It's not an Estyn checklist. And because of the word'toolkit'—the feedback was that it gave the impression of a checklist, 'Just do this and check list'. So, we're actually going to change the name of that resource.So, it'll be called the national evaluation and improvement resource, rather than the toolkit, because, as I said, the feedback was that 'toolkit' gave the impressionof a checklist exercise, and it's got to be about more than that if it's going to be meaningful. So, it'll be changed to an 'improvement resource'.Lynne Neagle AM:Okay. Before I bring Suzy in, can I just welcome Siân Gwenllian, who is joining us via video-conference in north Wales? Morning, Siân.Sian Gwenllian AM: Goodmorning. Can you hear me?Lynne Neagle AM: We can, yes. We can hear you very nicely, thank you.Sian Gwenllian AM: Okay. Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Suzy,you've got a supplementary.Suzy Davies AM: Yes. Only a very quick one. It's about the development of the—Kirsty Williams AM: The resource.Suzy Davies AM:Yes, the resource, thank you—about whether there were any conflicting ideas in the process of development that made it quite difficult to zone in on somethingthat school leadership teams, in particular, could rely on. Were there differences of opinion on what this should look like?Kirsty Williams AM: Not that I'm aware offrom the practitioners that I've spoken to who have been part of that. So, for instance, Suzy, you will know the very small school of Gladestry. The head ofGladestry has been involved in this process, and she said that she'd really enjoyed the process of working alongside Estyn and the OECD as a school leader to beable to shape it. But I'm not aware that there's been conflict in that process.Suzy Davies AM: I'm not suggesting that there has been; I'm just interested as tohow it had worked, that's all.Steve Davies: Chair, I think, inevitably, when you bring stakeholders together, they're not going to be in total agreement as to howit's going to work, and I think initially one of the challenges was having Estyn there as part of the facilitation group. There are always some concerns that,actually, it's coming from a to inspect, oral, judgmental tick box. So, we had some early day challenges where we had to convince—and, ultimately, Estynconvinced them—that they were there to help and support as opposed to to inspect, and that the model that was developed, as the Minister said, was not going tobe a tick box, 'You are good at this part of self-evaluation', it was to build the skillsets up.Suzy Davies AM: Okay. So, it's got their full confidence.Kirsty WilliamsAM: Yes, and I think again, also, what—. You know, four years into the job, what I've reflected on as well is there is this sometimes a feeling out there that theMinister says all the right stuff, but you're not actually going to do it, so, when you talk about a new approach to doing things, you're not actually serious about it.So, trying to build that confidence that we are serious about developing a new system around self-improvement, which is different fromaccountability—sometimes, the practitioners are like, 'Oh, yes, we've heard it all before but it never actually happens.' And I think that's been a part of theconstant—not pressure, but the responsibility on Welsh Government is in following through. So, we said that we were going to do this in the national mission, and


User Interface: {gap}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} How do you wear this thing ?Project Manager: Hmm . Mm mm mm .{vocalsound}User Interface: Not too many cables and stuff .Marketing: {gap}User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}UserInterface: {vocalsound} Original . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Is recorded ? Okay ? Okay so welcome everyone . So we are here for the kickoffmeeting of uh the process of designing a new remote control . So I will first start with a warm welcome opening {vocalsound} stuff ,User Interface:{vocalsound}Project Manager: then uh we will uh see what will be uh our product and what will be the different step we will have to design it . And uh then wewill uh discuss if we have few ideas and we will uh end uh by uh dispatching the different task you will be {disfmarker} you will have to fulfil to complete thisprocess . So {disfmarker}User Interface: Uh . Just one thing . Uh , you said twenty-five minutes , but I have something else to do uh , so gotta have anothermeeting uh soon ,Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: so maybe you could hurry up a bit {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} sorry ?UserInterface: It's true . I have another meeting so if you could uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: You have another meeting soon ?User Interface: Yeah .ProjectManager: So you have to be quick .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah , for the lawnmower project .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface:Okay .Project Manager: So the the goal is to have a remote control so to have an advantage over our competitors we have to be original , we have to be trendyand we have to also try to be user-friendly .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So uh the design step will be divided in three uh main points . First itwill be the functional design . Third is the conceptual design and then is the desired design . So the functional design is to identify the main user needs , thetechnical function the remote control should fulfil . And then we will move to f conceptual design where we'll specify the different component involved , what kindof user interf interface we want and what are the different uh trend in user interface and stuff like that .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Andthen the desired devi design will consist in uh specifically implementing {vocalsound} and detailing the choice we've uh made in the second point . So I will nowask you which is very important for the design of a new remote control for to uh each of us to to draw uh your favourite animal on the white board .UserInterface: {vocalsound} What an original idea .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Do you have any idea of which animal you want to show us ? {vocalsound}UserInterface: Orangutan .Project Manager: Okay {vocalsound} that's good .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Nono nProject Manager: {vocalsound} n n {gap}User Interface: Can I give you theProject Manager: You should {disfmarker}User Interface: {disfmarker} no ? ButI don't have to say anything . When I'm drawing the orangutan .Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} If you want to react uh about this wonderfuldrawing uh {vocalsound} I'll let you uh comment .User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}UserInterface: It's an abstract drawing of an orangutan .Project Manager: Okay it's an abstract drawing .User Interface: Yes .Project Manager: I think it's nice andoriginal . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} You should write y the name I think . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: I don't havea red colour . Usually orangutans have red hair so this is a very important but I don't have red pen , so {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay .User Interface:{vocalsound} Yes .Project Manager: You want to draw something Christine ? {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: Okay uh sorry . You have to imagine a little bit {vocalsound} um .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: This {disfmarker}ProjectManager: Of course your animal is recorded so it's not lost . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Sorry too {vocalsound} uh .User Interface: Yes . I know.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Is this uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Wha what is this strange beast ?Marketing: Is it beautiful ? {vocalsound}Project Manager:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Is it a monster ?Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Do you know ? It's a cat .UserInterface: It's a cat ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Isn't it ? {vocalsound}User Interface: I thought these things did not exist.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yes yesIndustrial Designer: Me {vocalsound}Marketing: is it {disfmarker} like that .User Interface: Ahyeah {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Ah yeah . Yeah .Marketing: Is it better ?Project Manager: Ah okay it's pretty . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Okay .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay it's your cat . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} It's my cat .User Interface: Does have a name ?Marketing:{vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: The name is Caramel .User Interface: Caramel . Ah-ha .Industrial Designer:Caramel .Marketing: Yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay . Olivier , do you want to {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} And you {vocalsound}{vocalsound} I think I'm too short for the cables . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay I go , but next time you'll dosomething I'm sure . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} I'm a bit short on cable .User Interface: Next time I concentrate .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}ProjectManager: Okay . So what could I draw ? {vocalsound} Maybe I can draw like a very simplified cow . {vocalsound} I don't know if it looks like a cow{vocalsound}User Interface: He looks like a bong .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Like a what ? {vocalsound}UserInterface: Okay . Sorry . No .Industrial Designer: Quite squarey .User Interface: Scary ?Project Manager: {gap} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: He also .{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I dunno it it looks more like a donkey in fact {vocalsound} I would say .User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} I I think we will be finished this uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager:Okay so I hope that it helps you uh in the process of designing a remote control .User Interface: Is it for uh for putting a {disfmarker} for logos , no .ProjectManager: {vocalsound} Okay .User Interface: {vocalsound} That's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Let's move on . So {disfmarker} Here the uh financial objectiveof our project . That is to say to to have a production cost lower than twelve point five Euros and have a selling price of twice that price t in order to target a profeprofit of uh fifty uh million Euros .User Interface: I is there a matter for a new remote control ?Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah if it's trendy , original I d fulfilthe user needs .User Interface: Is it uh a single device remote control or is it a multi-device remote control ?Project Manager: We have to discuss that point .UserInterface: AhProject Manager: On {disfmarker}User Interface: this is not defined at all ?Project Manager: yeah you you can suggest points like this . So whatwhat {disfmarker}User Interface: Ah , okay .Project Manager: so we have to decide for example if it can control one device or multiple . So what's {disfmarker}what are your ideas about that ?User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Maybe I can have the {disfmarker} your opinion from the marketing side ?UserInterface: Well uh do we sell other stuff ? Uh if if we bundle the remote control with something uh to sell then it could be a single device , otherwise it could beprogrammable one otherwise who would buy a remote control from us .Project Manager: Okay , so if it selled uh by its own i it it would rather be for multipledevice .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Do you agree ?Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Yeah . So maybe it should be formultiple devices . And uh do you have any ideas um of uh design ideas or any uh uh technical requirement we we should uh fulfil ?Industrial Designer:{vocalsound} I think we shouldn't have too many b for my part . I think {disfmarker}User Interface: No , I couldn I cannot fi think of any requirements right now. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: If we don't have so many buttons could be nice .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Few buttons . Okay .User Interface:{vocalsound}Project Manager: And do you have it also to be {disfmarker} to be lighted in order to be used in the dark ? Might be a good idea .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: Okay . And do you have any um any uh idea of the trend {disfmarker} the trend in domain , what it shouldn't{disfmarker} it should look like , or things like that ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Something which is not squarey maybe uh , not a box .User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: With rou okay . Like for {disfmarker} okay .User Interface: Something like that , least fits in your hand .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface:{vocalsound} Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: The basic requirement .Project Manager: So . Fit in your hand , yeah .User Interface:{vocalsound} Only a buck .Project Manager: And also it have , i it may be {vocalsound} it may be important for the remote control to be uh {disfmarker} To , toresist to various shocks that can happen if it fall .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Waterproof . {vocalsound}ProjectManager: {vocalsound} Water-proof as well .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} And I think we should have a device {disfmarker}Project Manager: Maybe it isoriginal because you can uh use it in your uh {disfmarker} in your bath whereas the others can't .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}ProjectManager: Maybe water-proof would be very original .Industrial Designer: Sorry . {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Havin having a water-proofremote control so that the people can uh use it in their bath .User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: That could be uh {disfmarker}User Interface: B it seems uh so, but uh if you don't have an waterproof remote control it means you can just cover it with some plastic and you can sort of fProject Manager: Yeah but , it is stillsomething uh you have to buy and that is um not maybe very {disfmarker}User Interface: And , and that's one of the {disfmarker} that's one of the shock{disfmarker} I mean there are people that have a remote control and they are worried that it's going to break and they put some extra plastic around it .ProjectManager: Yeah , mayb BUser Interface: That's people {gap} they actually do it themselves .Project Manager: But maybe we can bulk it with uh already this


Project Manager: Uh , making a profit of fifty million Euros . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Alright so twenty five .User Interface: Mm 'kay .Project Manager:So , it's go gonna have to be be pretty damn trendy . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So yeah , I've {disfmarker} The only the only remote controls I've usedusually come with the television , and they're fairly basic .Project Manager: Yeah . Yeah .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: So uh {disfmarker}{vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah , I was thinking that as well , I think the the only ones that I've seen that you buy are the sort of one for all type thingswhere they're ,User Interface: Yeah the universal ones . Yeah .Industrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: yeah . So presumably that might be an idea to put into.Industrial Designer: But but to sell it for twenty five you need a lot of neat features . For sure .Marketing: Slim .Project Manager: Yeah , yeah .User Interface:Yeah .Project Manager: Uh 'cause I mean , what {disfmarker} uh twenty five Euros , that's about I dunno , fifteen Pounds or so ? And that's quite a lot for aremote control .User Interface: Mm-hmm , it's about that .Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah .User Interface: Mm .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Um wellmy first thoughts would be most remote controls are grey or black . As you said they come with the T_V_ so it's normally just your basic grey black remotecontrol {gap} functions ,Project Manager: Uh-huh .User Interface: so maybe we could think about colour ?Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Make{disfmarker} that might make it a bit different from the rest at least . Um , and as you say , we need to have some kind of gimmick , so um I thought maybesomething like if you lose it and you can whistle ,Project Manager: Okay . {vocalsound} The the keyrings , yeah yeah .User Interface: you know those things ?Because we always lose our remote control .Industrial Designer: Right .Marketing: {vocalsound} Uh yeah uh ,Project Manager: Okay , that's cool .Marketing:being as a Marketing Exper Expert I will like to say like before deciding the cost of this remote control or any other things we must see the market potential forthis product like what is the competition in the market ? What are the available prices of the other remote controls in the prices ?Project Manager: {gap} Okay.Marketing: What speciality other remote controls are having and how complicated it is to use these remote controls as compared to other remote controlsavailable in the market . So before deciding or before finalising this project , we must discuss all these things , like {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay .Marketing:and apart from this , it should be having a good look also , because people really li uh like to play with it when they are watching movies or playing with {gap} orplaying with their C_D_ player , M_P_ three player like any electronic devices .User Interface: Mm . Mm-hmm .Marketing: They really want to have somethinggood , having a good design in their hands ,Project Manager: {gap}User Interface: Mm-hmm . Yeah .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: so , yes ,ProjectManager: 'Kay .Marketing: all this .Industrial Designer: Uh , what do we think a {disfmarker}Project Manager: So , we're looking for {disfmarker} {gap} 'Kay.Industrial Designer: What do we think a good size would be for this ? {gap}Project Manager: We're {disfmarker}Marketing: {gap}Industrial Designer: 'Cause I Iknow as you add more buttons to the remote it sometimes gets so big and clunkyProject Manager: Sorry , carry on . {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and there's just like a hundred buttons on it ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: or youcould have a really small slim one but then you could lose it easily . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Yeah . Then you lose it , yeah .{vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Kind of um , maybe more like a P_D_A_ kind of , just hand held , like ,Project Manager: For for uhUserInterface: 'cause {disfmarker}Project Manager: remember we're trying to make it for twelve Euros fifty . {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah . No , I wasn't , nosorry I wasn't thinking of the screen of like a P_D_A_Project Manager: Okay well right we'll have to um {disfmarker} I'll {disfmarker}User Interface: butProjectManager: we're k having another meeting in half an hour so umUser Interface: Okay .Project Manager: we should all look into a bit uh , oh actually , no , we'llallocate . So you do the looking around at other remote controls .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Um , if you could maybe come up with sort of shapes andsuggested shades or whatever , and you could look into um {vocalsound} basically how how it's made I_E_ like how you make it all in one , how {disfmarker}what sort of materials are available to you whatever . And obviously , other instructions will come from the personal coach .Industrial Designer: Right .ProjectManager: Which will probably just usurp what I said so {disfmarker}User Interface: So you want me to look at shapes and everything you said ?Project Manager:Shapes and colours and {disfmarker} um basically how to make it attractive .User Interface: Yep . Okay .Project Manager: Uh .User Interface: Mm-hmm.Marketing: {gap}Project Manager: And you look at competition and design .Marketing: Yep .Project Manager: Cool . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound} Okay .User Interface: Okay .Marketing: {gap}Project Manager: SoIndustrial Designer: {gap}Project Manager: we have uh {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: Wait for emails ?Marketing: Uh .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Hmm .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay , groovy . And no doubt we'llget um {disfmarker}User Interface: Oh no , {gap} .Project Manager: Sorry .User Interface: SorryProject Manager: We'll get um warnings for next meetings aswell .User Interface: it's okay . Okay , cool .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay . I shall {disfmarker} I can't imagine these {gap} are worth much .{vocalsound}Marketing: Hmm .Project Manager: Okay . Fashion into electronic . Okay .


The Chair (Hon. Anthony Rota (NipissingTimiskaming, Lib.)): I call this meeting to order.  Welcome to the 23rd meeting of the House of Commons SpecialCommittee on the COVID-19 Pandemic.  A reminder to all members that in order to avoid issues with sound, members participating in person should not also beconnected to the video conference. For those of you who are joining via video conference, I will remind you that when speaking you should be on the samechannel as the language you are speaking, and please use your headsets. As usual, please direct your remarks through the chair. As I understand, there are noministerial announcements today.  We will now proceed to presenting petitions. I remind members that any petition presented during a meeting of this specialcommittee must have already been certified by the clerk of petitions. For members participating in person, I ask that they please come and drop their signedcertificates off at the table once the petition is presented. I would ask members to be very brief and concise, and to summarize the exact content of the petition.We will continue. The first person presenting a petition today is Ms. May.Ms. Elizabeth May (SaanichGulf Islands, GP): Thank you, Mr. Chair. I present twopetitions this morning. The residents of SaanichGulf Islands are calling on the government to simplify the process for protection of marine protected areas. It's amulti-layered communication process. The marine protected area first proposed in the 1970s for the southern Strait of Georgia, now called the Salish Sea, hasbeen awaiting designation for so long that it was originally endorsed by Jacques Cousteau. That gives us a sense for why petitioners are calling for a simplifiedand more rapid process. The second petition is from petitioners who are very concerned about our obligations under the United Nations Declaration on the Rightsof Indigenous Peoples and our commitments under the Truth and Reconciliation Commission calls to action. They specifically reference the RCMP violation ofUNDRIP in its actions on Wet'suwet'en territory and ask the government to commit to actually living the principles embodied in UNDRIP.The Chair: We will now goto Mr. Hardie.Mr. Ken Hardie (FleetwoodPort Kells, Lib.): Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am presenting a petition on behalf of the one in a million Canadians who suffersevere and adverse effects from vaccinations. GuillainBarre syndrome is very debilitating, and this petition seeks the setting up of a no-fault accident orcompensation system to help offset the loss of work, the loss of wages and the loss of quality of life that many of these people suffer. I'm pleased to present thispetition pursuant to Standing Order 36.The Chair: Mr.Trudel, you have the floor.Mr. Denis Trudel (LongueuilSaint-Hubert, BQ): Mr.Chair, culture is the soul of apeople. Over the past 20years or so, culture, especially music, has never been as accessible as it is now. Paradoxically, creators' incomes have never been so low.The advent of digital technology has completely overturned the system for distributing the wealth generated by creators for the benefit of various Webstakeholders, many of whom are billionaires. This petition addresses these problems and proposes realistic solutions. The first is to set a minimum royalty modelfor streaming platforms for artists. The second is to update the existing private copying system. The third is for Internet and cell phone providers who sell theirservices as direct access to culture to share their profits with artists. The fourth is that the GAFAMs have to pay taxes on their services. Six thousand people havealready signed the first version of this petition, launched last month by musician JordanOfficer and supported by singer BarbaraSecours. As an artist, I am proudto present this petition today because the issues it raises are fundamental to the survival of Quebec culture.The Chair: We'll now continue with Mr. Genuis.Mr.Garnett Genuis (Sherwood ParkFort Saskatchewan, CPC): Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I have four petitions to present today. I will be as brief as yousuggested, although I will observe that if some members are going on longer during petitions than they normally do, it might be because the government hastaken away so many of the tools that opposition members normally have for raising important issues in the House. The first petition deals with the issue ofeuthanasia and long-term care. The petitioners are concerned that instead of focusing on improving medically assisted life, something that we know is a majorissue in light of recent revelations, the government has put so much time and legislative energy into efforts to continually further expand euthanasia in Canadaand remove vital safeguards. The second petition speaks to the ongoing conversations happening in Canada around systemic discrimination and systemic racism.I think we do need to reflect on systemic discrimination. This petition deals specifically with Bill 21 in Quebec and raises concerns. The reality of the way that billapplies is that people from certain backgrounds who wish to practise their faith are not able to fully participate in Canadian society if they are employed in thepublic service. This petition asks the government to provide a response on that issue, something it hasn't done in response to past petitions on this. The thirdpetition deals with the issue of firearms. The petitioners want to see the government take a strong response in dealing with illegal guns and gun smuggling. Thepetition notes that the vast majority of firearms-related crimes in Canada involves illegal guns. At the same time, the petitioners are concerned that thegovernment has the wrong focusthat is, harassing law-abiding firearms ownerswithout putting in place substantial measures to deal with illegal guns. Thepetitioners want to see the reversal of the order in council from May 1 and strong measures to deal with illegal firearms. The fourth and final petition deals withBill S-204, a bill that would make it a criminal offence for a Canadian to go abroad and receive an organ from a person who has not consented to giving thatorgan. It would also create a mechanism by which someone could be deemed inadmissible to Canada if they were involved in organ harvesting and trafficking.The petitioners are supportive of Bill S-204 and of similar bills in previous parliaments and would like to see us pass that bill as soon as possible.The Chair:Presenting petitions, Mr. Lamoureux.Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Winnipeg North, Lib.): Thank you, Mr. Chair. It is with pleasure that I table another petition by theresidents of Winnipeg North. These residents have signed a petition asking the Government of Canada, and in fact all members of Parliament, to put a highpriority on assisting our poorest seniors. The increases to the GIS by $200, and $300 to the OAS, have been well received. They just want to highlight howimportant it is to support our seniors, in particular the poorest of our seniors.The Chair: For members present in the Chamber, a reminder that they are asked tobring their petitions to the table. We'll now proceed to statements by members. We'll go to Ms. Atwin for the first one.Mrs. Jenica Atwin (Fredericton, GP): Thankyou, Mr. Chair. June 21 is National Indigenous Peoples Day, a day of acknowledgement and a day of celebration of the beautiful diversity of indigenous peoplesacross Turtle Island. I wish to recognize the leadership of Chief Shelley Sabattis of the Welamukotuk First Nation in Oromocto, New Brunswick. Each year she andher council, volunteers and staff go above and beyond to show appreciation for their members and to demonstrate pride and culture while promoting well-being.We gather in an event where all are welcome to take part, from traditional hand drum-making with elders to moose meat and tacos. This year we will celebrate abit differently, but we will still stay connected, virtually and in spirit, to the vast network of indigenous peoples and allies. We need each other now more thanever. May we come together in song and stories and in solidarity. We will remember those who are not among us. I hope all of Canada will join us in observingNational Indigenous Peoples Day.  Mawiyapasuwok: let us come together. Nit liech.The Chair: We'll now go to Mr. Beech.Mr. Terry Beech (BurnabyNorthSeymour, Lib.): Mr. Chair, COVID-19 is an unprecedented challenge for all communities across Canada, but as we do our part to flatten the curve, I oftenthink about those who suit up every morning to serve on the front lines of our health care system. My mother is a home care worker and my sister is a nurse.Even before the crisis, they would often share the hardships they faced on a day-to-day basis. It's a tough job at the best of times. In a pandemic, these jobs arelife-threatening. I think we can all agree that these workers deserve more than our good wishes. They deserve a raise. That is why we have worked with theprovinces to implement pandemic pay. In British Columbia more than 250,000 front-line workers are eligible for this program. That works out to a pay increase ofabout $4 an hour. It's a small show of our appreciation for their difficult and priceless contribution to our country. Share this message and say thanks to ourfront-line workers, participate in the 7 p.m. cheer, and order a pizza for your local nurses. It's the least we can do.The Chair: We'll now go on to Mr. Shipley.Mr.Doug Shipley (BarrieSpringwaterOro-Medonte, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. We've been living in difficult times. Slowly, we are getting back to some resemblanceof normalcy, although unfortunately not soon enough for some of our great summer festivals. It will not be normal in BarrieSpringwaterOro-Medonte this summerwithout the iconic Boots and Hearts weekend music festival, Kempenfest, Oro World's Fair, the Elmvale Fall Fair, or the Midhurst Autumnfest. Canada Daycelebrations have been cancelled, but we can still celebrate the great nation we call home. Because of the lack of Canada Day celebrations, I've created HappyCanada Day lawn signs that are available through my constituency office, free to all residents of BarrieSpringwaterOro-Medonte. I'm also hosting a drive-throughparty on Canada Day at the Royal Canadian Legion on St. Vincent Street in Barrie. All are welcome to attend. There will be cupcakes for all. Please drop by thelegion between 11 a.m. and 2 p.m., and we can celebrate Canada Day safely together. Thank you and have a great summer.The Chair: Now we'll go on to Ms.Young.Ms. Kate Young (London West, Lib.): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Among the countless ordinary Canadians who have stepped up to do extraordinary work duringCOVID-19, I wish to draw attention to our teachers. Teachers have always had a special place in my heart. My father was a teacher, and my daughter-in-law,Kelly Webb, is one now. I'm certain that my colleagues can all easily remember a teacher in their past who played an important role in helping them achieve theirpotential. I remember my grade 12 English teacher, Vince Weaver, at Westminster Secondary School in London. He made me realize that I could do so muchmore than I believed. Across the country, as schools closed, teachers did not stop their work. Some took their classes online. Others found innovative ways tocontinue engaging with their students. This is not the school year anyone imagined, and what the next one will look like is unclear, but our teachers in London


Marketing: Great man . Who starts ?Project Manager: Well I'll uh start just with another presentation , so then we can uh look at th at the agenda uh for thismeeting .Marketing: Alright , great . Alright .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay . I've put some uh new things in the in the map .Marketing: Mm-hmm .ProjectManager: Uh oh . {vocalsound} This is it . I don't know the shortcut , so {disfmarker} Ah F_ five . Well our functional design meeting , that's the stage we're in.Industrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: And you also ha all three of you have uh prepared something about it .Marketing: Yes .Project Manager: Well um inwe'll uh just have a look at the at the notes from the previous meeting , what we uh thought we had dec decided . But uh {disfmarker} Uh then we'll uh look atuh the three uh presentations uh from you . I think you have prepared uh all three uh ? {vocalsound}Marketing: 'Kay .Industrial Designer: Well , yeah.Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Um we'll look at th the new project requirements we uh {disfmarker} I dunno . Y you also have uh received that mail , thenew project requirements from our bosses ?Industrial Designer: No . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh I've received a mail with uh some additional requirements,Marketing: No . You're the only one . {vocalsound}Project Manager: and I'll have a look if {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Oh .Marketing: Alright .ProjectManager: Well I think we should show them before your presentations , because it's not really uh smart uh to uh to include some things uh we can't , because ofthe new requirements . Well um then we can make some decisions about our remote control functions .Marketing: 'Kay .Project Manager: We have to deb wehave to decide it in this meeting what our function will be . And then uh we can discuss uh some more closely . Uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: We haveforty minutes for this uh discussion ?Project Manager: Uh yeah , I think so . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Alright .Project Manager: Well uh {gap} the closinguh we'll not uh look at it yet .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Alright .Project Manager: Um {vocalsound} now I'll look at {gap} show {gap} this board .Um {disfmarker} Well uh notes , first meeting . Now . I gave a disc a a presentation . Uh we familiarised ourself with the boards and then we discussed some firstideas . So we said that uh we have to merge the strong points from our uh competitors , and uh look at their uh remote controls .Marketing: Right .ProjectManager: We should make it uh compatible with our new D_V_D_ and other releases we have , our technical releases .Industrial Designer: Huh ?ProjectManager: Uh not too many one buttons . One recognisable button in the middle , where you do the most important functions with . And um well they can havetwo functions , because uh you have a D_V_D_ and a television .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: Um the design has to fit the hand , beoriginal , but also be familiar . {vocalsound} It's uh one of our ideas .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager:{vocalsound} Yeah well that wa It's just thirty minutes ago ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: so it's not quite uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Butwell I have to do it .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm , now it's right .Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: The materials uh well should be hard plasticwith rubber from {gap} , and uh well the labelling of the buttons should be indestructible . It should be uh recognisable at all times .User Interface:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: It's meant to be easily wiped out , yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yes .User Interface: Mm .Marketing: Okay .ProjectManager: Well fronts were to be {gap} just like mobile telephones . And uh the technical aspects um {disfmarker} And also labelling of the buttons , thefunctions should be universal standards . Well that's just uh some ideas from the first meeting . It's quite logical al all of it .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .ProjectManager: Um now the new project requirements , I'll just show them . I got this mail from uh our bosses . Well , teletext goes out . We will not use teletext .UserInterface: Oh .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Maybe a new sort of thing , but n but not teletext .Industrial Designer: I I disagree , but uh it's not uh t it's notmy place to disagree I guess .Project Manager: Well {disfmarker} the second is a bit sh pity because we just said we wanted to d include the D_V_D_UserInterface: Oh .Project Manager: and they don't want it , because of our time we have for this project .Marketing: Alright .Industrial Designer: Oh , alright .UserInterface: Oh , that's a shame .Project Manager: So that's a shame , because uh especially for the third requirement we want to reach people under the thirtyyears . Because uh we don't have those customers a lot at th at this point . Um well it's a bit pity because it's just those people want to have uh one remotecontrol for all those technical devices they can uh reach it .Marketing: Yeah . But let's forget about it . It's just time-consuming ,Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: so we uh have to go on .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well and uh our corporate image should stay rec recognisable in our products. So uh we have to uh use uh maybe a slogan , maybe a colour , and um {disfmarker} Yeah well uh on our remote controls the design has to be uh , well as wealready said a actually , uh familiar . Uh not only just uh the shape but also our company .Marketing: Yes .Industrial Designer: Yeah , we are a {vocalsound} realfashionable company . I read uh I read it on the {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound} Yeah .User Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: I didn't know what company we were ,Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: but we we design uh especially trendy uh trendy trendy stuff .Marketing:{vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah . Okay .Industrial Designer: So it has to be uh a modern design . That's important to know , uh when youdesign a thing of course .Project Manager: Yes . I I uh noted uh our uh slogan that we have , our company . It's uh we mm put the fashion in electronics.Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: So maybe that's a slogan we can put uh somewhere on our remote control or something .Marketing: Right .UserInterface: Yeah .Project Manager: Alright then um we're going to uh have three presentations .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: You want to start ?IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah . {vocalsound} I think I have to start .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Oh you have to start ? I didn't see anything aboutuh who had to start .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} The order ? No . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Oh no , no problem .Project Manager: Well s thenstart .User Interface: Mm .Marketing: I I just have to uh to think which file's mine ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: 'cause I was uh bit in a hurry .ProjectManager: Okay . Well uh {disfmarker}Marketing: I think it's this one . But I'm not sure . {gap}Project Manager: {gap} You already uh opened uh PowerPoint.Marketing: Hmm ? Yeah . S Right .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yes . This is it .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Well , I'm going to tell yousomething about functional requirements .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Um to start with these points . Uh next sheet ? Um at first I tell you somethingabout what people dislike about the current uh controls , because it's uh a smart thing to exclude those things . Uh , furthermore it's very important what they dolike and what they do use . {vocalsound} Um then I tell something about um the most important issues . So we have to focus on those three thing three things .And in the end I'll um show you our target {vocalsound} audience or our target product users , customers . Well , {vocalsound} um the first findings are thatpeople um think most controls are very kind of ug ugly .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: That's seventy five per cent of the current users . They don'tlike it , so we might think about fronts in that section . Um {disfmarker} They also say , that's about uh I thought it was fifty per cent , uh that more money willbe spent on uh better looking controls . So it's very important that you design a a nice looking control . {vocalsound} Um the current user uses his machine justabout well all of the time for a few functions . Uh , almost every user uses it d the the control for just ten per cent of its capacity . So it's really important to makethe the buttons for the common uh tasks kind of big or kind of uh flashy . Furthermore , it's uh {vocalsound} seventy five per cent of the users uh zaps a lot .Thus it might be uh might be smart to make a a big uh zapping button or something in the middle , so you can reach it with your thumb .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound} You can zap away . Yeah . {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah , yeah right .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Right . A lot of losers um users lose theircontrols in their {vocalsound} in their living room .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: So it might be sensible to makesome kind of a button on your television , that's your um your control beeps or something , that you can find this very easily .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Well{disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah .Marketing: I dunno , maybe that's an idea .Industrial Designer: Oh .Marketing: 'Cause it's uh a big {disfmarker}I think fifty per cent of the users loses his its control , within the same room .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Oh ?Project Manager: It should actually uh{disfmarker} It should actually be loose from the television ,User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: because it can also be used for othertelevisions . So if you deliver a small uh click-on device that you can put on your television , that bleeps to your remote control , everyone can use it .Marketing:Yeah but what if you lose your click-on device ?Project Manager: No you can click it on your television .Marketing: Yeah but if someone d somebody else uses it inano other room or something ?Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah in another room , yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well yes.Marketing: Nee but it it specifically says it's uh the the control is lost in the same room .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer:Mm-hmm .Marketing: So {disfmarker} Well a beeping device would be {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well we'll have a look at it , yeah .Marketing: Uhfurthermore the learning time is a problem . Uh thirty four thirty four per cent um thinks it's it's too uh too difficult to learn . So the the learning curve should bevery short uh for the dumbest people should be able to use it .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I think our uh user uh expert should also considermanual a manual for the remote , of course . Uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah but people don't read manuals .Industrial Designer: I didn't read it ?UserInterface: No .Industrial Designer: Oh , alright .Marketing: No .Industrial Designer: {gap} users to uh add one ? Do you think ?User Interface: I don't think{disfmarker}Marketing: I think you should put more time in the in the design of uh pick up and use , than a manual .User Interface: Yeah . Yes you should


Project Manager: So uh good morning .User Interface: Morning .Marketing: Morning .Project Manager: I see you all find your places .Industrial Designer: Morning.Project Manager: Is everybody sitting on the right place ? Yeah ?Marketing: Yep .Project Manager: I guess so . So {disfmarker} Let's see . First I will introducemyself . I don't know if uh {disfmarker} if everybody knows me , so I'm Bart ,Marketing: My name's Frank .Project Manager: hello . Hello .User Interface: I'm{gap} .Project Manager: Bart . Hello . Hello . Bart .Industrial Designer: {gap}Project Manager: Welcome .Marketing: Thank you .Project Manager: Uh let's see .Uh let's start off um with a little presentation . Uh Now first I'll tell you a little bit about the setting . You can see there are a few cameras here . They'll record uhour actions and you'll have wires and microphones that will record your voice . Uh there are also some microphones there but th um you don't have to pay a lot ofattention on those , because it will uh disappear when you don't attend to it . So is there a project documents folder ? There are some notes in it already I see ,some documents . Uh I'll start with the presentation kick off . Is being modified by the administrator . Uh okay {vocalsound} .User Interface:{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Hmm , that's interesting .Project Manager: Let's do it read only . Well I don't know if you've noticed , but uh we're workingfor Real Reaction . Uh it's a company in uh electronics . We put fashion in electronics , uh we make it work , uh we put a lot of effort in design and in the productitself . I'm Bart {gap} the project manager so I'll direct you through the project . This is our agenda . {vocalsound} Uh we have our opening acquaintance , tooltraining , project plan description closing .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh maybe I can sit down , then I can take some notes or {disfmarker} Let'ssee . Maybe you can take the minutes once in a while .Marketing: Sure .Project Manager: I dunno it's not a lot of work , but just uh if you hear something uh youcan write down , just write it down . Uh as you can see uh it's the opening , aquaintance tool training . Aquaintance is a point we've done a bit . Um have you allseen the corporate website already ? Yeah .User Interface: Yep .Marketing: Yep . Visit it .Project Manager: Have you seen any flaws in it ? I think I found one .{vocalsound} No ?User Interface: Hmm ?Marketing: Can't say I paid much attention to it ,Project Manager: I can see if it works this way . No , it doesn't workhere .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay no problem . But um on the corporate information side there's a thuh {disfmarker} there was Real Remote instead of Real Reaction .Marketing: Oh yeah .Project Manager: Real Remote is not really the company we're{disfmarker} we are , but it's just a little {gap} fault .User Interface: Okay . Yeah .Project Manager: Um okay , what are we going to do ? {vocalsound} Uh ourproject aim is as you can see a new remote control . It has to be original , trendy , and user friendly . So these are uh the points why uh we also hired you .{vocalsound} We've got the Marketing Expert for uh the trendy and user friendly look .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: And Industrial Designer uh there's alsouser friendly and a bit original . {vocalsound} And we've got our User Interface Designer .User Interface: Yep .Project Manager: He's also uh {disfmarker} That'sabout the new remote control . Uh project method um is uh there are three phases we are going through . First is functional des uh design , individual work ,meetings . After the functional design , then the conceptual design and the detailed design . {vocalsound} I had some role indications on here . But I think youknow it already by yourself . The Industrial Designer is going to work on the working design , uh components design and a bit of the look and feel design . Uh theUser Interface Designer is going to do the technical function design , user interface concept and user interface design . {vocalsound} And the marketing expert isdoing a little bit of user requirement specification , trend watching and project {disfmarker} uh product ev evaluation . So that's a bit what you're going to do .But that will be all worked out in uh other meetings .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Then we've got our first tool training . {vocalsound} We are goingto work with a lot of high-tech tools here , so it's ab it's handy if we have a little bit of training first . As you can see we've got the smart boards here and here inthe white board . Um in the white board here there's a little tool bar on this side . Here are some functions . You can save . N uh these functions we don't haveanything to do with , only undo , you can undo a little uh piece of drawing . A blank new document for each person . Uh select a pen , eraser . Capture we don'thave to do anything with . Uh then we've got our pen . This pen . It's really funny because you can draw with it on this page um in the {disfmarker} think it isform of .Marketing: 'Kay .Project Manager: You can also select the current colour and the line width . But then first you have to select the pen function .UserInterface: Hmm .Project Manager: But we're going to work with it in a minute . So okay . Uh that's very simple and it's easy to uh draw your findings anddrawings on there . {vocalsound} Uh then a short thing about documents . We've got our shared folder , project {gap} project {disfmarker} what was it ? Projectdocuments {gap} I think . But all you will found that already because there are a lot of documents in it already , so it will be okay . And these are available on thesmart boards as well , so if you have a document you wanna show , just open it from the folder .User Interface: Okay . Yeah .Project Manager: Here is a simpletool bar . It's what I just said , it's save , print , move back or forward one page . You can switch between the different drawings . And then we're going to try outthe white board .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} So as you can see we g all {vocalsound} going to draw a animal .{vocalsound} Just to uh uh just to get a bit familiar with it .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Mouse wasn't runningaway . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: That was interesting .Project Manager: Is everybody {disfmarker} isanybody playing with the mouse ? No .Marketing: {vocalsound} Innocent .Project Manager: Okay . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager:We're going to uh draw animal . {vocalsound} And uh just sum up a few of its favourite characteristics .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um the onlything we have to uh look after is that we use different colours , and different line width .Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh there's{disfmarker} I can start from now . I will . You can use this pen by holding it like a like a little child . Because if you hold it like this , the sensors will get blockedand then the drawing won't get good .User Interface: Okay .Marketing: 'Kay .Project Manager: Another thing is you have to be uh a bit slow . 'Cause if you'regoing to draw like really fast then um the pen won't hold up . So we choose form of current colour uh I think grey is appropriate . Then the line width . I thinkseven will be nice . Now you'll see my drawing capabilities .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: These are not very much , but uh {disfmarker} Uh ,see you have to do it real slow . {vocalsound} Oh {gap}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound}User Interface: Sure .Project Manager: Ah I was trying to draw a dolphin ,User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: but I thinkhis nose has to be a little bit {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: But it's close .Marketing: I'm thinking about aswordfish .Project Manager: So what {disfmarker} yeah it's {disfmarker} this is bit of the swordfish .User Interface: Yeah . Yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound}ProjectManager: Yeah , he hasn't got an eye .User Interface: {gap} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Woah . {vocalsound}Now we've got another function . We've got the eraser .Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} .Project Manager: {vocalsound} And then you can undo thiseasily .Marketing: Meat .Project Manager: Ah it's okay .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: And I've got to write down a few of its characteristics . Uhis {disfmarker} They've got no text tool , no . Uh . {vocalsound} Okay .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: This is typically aundo action , I think . {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Pen . Maybe you have to hold it a bit upside-down . I think that's it becauseif you wan ar are going to do it like this then it will be a stripe . But I don't know , I'm just trying . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} This is not my work ,IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: okay .Marketing: Hmm .Project Manager: Maybe you have to use {disfmarker} Oh .Marketing:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Uh . I think it's a {disfmarker} it wants to draw a {disfmarker} another animal ? I don't know . It lives for the fun . So{disfmarker} It's my characteristic uh characteristic about the dolphin . It lives for the fun . So now I'm gonna hand over the pen on the new blank sheet to you.User Interface: Okay .Marketing: Okay . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Go ahead .Marketing: Thank you . Okay . Gonna use adifferent line width . And I'm gonna draw in black . There . 'Kay , I'm not much of an artist , but here we go .Project Manager: Maybe it's easier to draw thesmaller line width , I think . Because this is going a lot better than uh I did .User Interface: Hmm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: A sheep.Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: This ismy um {disfmarker} Hmm . Sheep .Project Manager: It's nice . {vocalsound}Marketing: With of courseProject Manager: {vocalsound} Uh .Marketing: little bluedot they always get sprayed on their butts .Project Manager: {vocalsound} It's a real dead sheep ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: There .ProjectManager: yeah . {vocalsound} For recognition ,Marketing: Yeah . {vocalsound}Project Manager: yeah , I see . {vocalsound} Um maybe you can also write yourname somewhere .Marketing: 'Kay .Project Manager: On just a {disfmarker}Marketing: They are {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Comeon . You have to go really slow when you're writing .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: They're brilliant animal animals .User Interface: {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: And that's just a little me thingy . So . Guess I'll pass the pen to our User Interface Designer .Project Manager:Nice .User Interface: Okay . Um I'm just gonna draw its uh head , but mm {disfmarker} Let's see . Mm . Uh . {gap} Okay . {vocalsound}Project Manager:{vocalsound} Sweet . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Interesting .User Interface: You know what


Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay . Good afternoon again .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So weshould have our final meeting about the detail designed of {disfmarker} detail design of the product of the remote control . Um {vocalsound} So here is theagenda for today . Uh uh just going to go quickly through the minutes of the last last uh meeting then we have a p presentation of prototype of you two , soundsinteresting . And we'll have um {vocalsound} presentation of evaluation crit criteria by ou our Marketing Experts . Then we'll have to go through financeevaluation of the of the cost of the thing and um hopefully uh we should fit the target o tw of twelve point five uh uh Euro . {vocalsound} Okay . So let's go . Uh ifI go quickly through the minutes of the last meeting . {vocalsound} So we went through th uh w we took this following decisions . No L_C_D_ , no speechrecognition technology , okay , we went through a b to a banana look and feel for the remote control . We went through the use of wheels and but buttons .{vocalsound} And also the use of a basis station for battery ch charging and uh also to um call the to call the mot mote remote control when it is lost . Okay . Um. Good . So guys let {gap} this uh wonderful thing .Industrial Designer: Okay so we can go to the slides .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Oh yeah . Sorry . Um.Industrial Designer: Yeah . Number three . Oh number two sorry .Project Manager: Which is {gap} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So final design . Finaldesign . Okay so Michael you can go ahead .User Interface: Yeah so uh following our decision to uh make a yellow {disfmarker} well to make a bananaProjectManager: Yeah can you show it to the the camera maybe .User Interface: remote {disfmarker} okay so we actually have a {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Youcan pull it out first , maybe .User Interface: We've {disfmarker} well first first of all we made a an attractive {vocalsound} base station uh with a banana leaf uhlook and feel um and uhProject Manager: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}User Interface: bana sit {disfmarker} the banana sits in there k you know nicely weighted sothat it's not gonna tip over and um this is the remote itself , it's kind of it's it's ergonomic , it fits in the hand uh rather well . We've got the two uh {vocalsound}uh scroll wheels here which you know one on the the left for the uh volume and the one on the right for for the channel and uh underneath {vocalsound} we havethe uh the turbo button which is in like a nice uh trigger position for you know for pressing quite naturally .Project Manager: What's the use uh of the t turbobutton already ?User Interface: This is when you when you uh are scrolling the uh {disfmarker} through the channels you can tell it to to skip th past channelsthat you {disfmarker} quickly rather thProject Manager: Ah yeah yeah an then you stop when you stop it stops .User Interface: Yeah . Well when you stopscrolling the wheel it stops . But normally with uh {disfmarker} it will just uh s stay on each station briefly so you can see the the picture .Industrial Designer: Uh{disfmarker}Project Manager: Uh-huh .Industrial Designer: And we we do have one more functionality . If you take the banana as such and uh you press theturbo button , so it switch ons the switch ons the T_V_ .User Interface: The T_V_ yeah .Project Manager: Which one ?User Interface: The s the turbo button.Industrial Designer: The turbo button .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: So rather than having uh an extra button for um for the on off switch you just usethe turbo button .Industrial Designer: Additional button .Marketing: What this button for ?User Interface: This is a teletext button . So once you press that thenyou get teletextMarketing: Okay .User Interface: and you can use the the channel selector scroll wheel as uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: To navigate itthrough th through teletext .User Interface: To navigate yeah .Marketing: But if you want to go to page seven hundred ?Industrial Designer: That's right , that'sright .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: {gap} with the wheel it's easy .Marketing: How manUser Interface: Well then you can you you have like a little uhnumber selection thing , you press the {gap} the the teletext button uh to move between uh the fields and then you can just scroll the number back and forth soyou have s you go {disfmarker} you scroll to seven and then zero zero and then you can uh {disfmarker}Marketing: I don't understand it . Can you repeat it ?{vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Well you can you can press press the teletext buttonIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: and then youthen you can you can fIndustrial Designer: So then then both the scroll buttons they are for teletext browsing .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: And you canteleMarketing: Ah okay okay . Okay . Okay okay .Industrial Designer: yeah ,User Interface: Mm uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: once you press the teletextbutton then the scroll buttons they are more for teletext , they are no more for channel or vol volume .Marketing: Okay . I see . I see . Okay . Okay .IndustrialDesigner: Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound} And this is the uh the infrared uh port .Industrial Designer: That's right .User Interface: Also the top of the banana.Project Manager: Excellent .User Interface: So . And then we haveIndustrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: in the uh in the base station we have the the buttonat the front for uh for calling the uh the banana .Project Manager: Calling . Excellent .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: And the the leaves plays theroles of of antennas ?User Interface: Actually they do .Project Manager: Oh .User Interface: That's that's yeah that's uh that's form and function in the one in theone uh object .Industrial Designer: Yeah . So it always means , whatever the rays goes by they they get reflected and then you are having a better coverage.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: It's like antennas .User Interface: Yeah . So .Marketing: {gap}User Interface: But yeah that's um that's justlike {disfmarker} that's an attractive um base station .Project Manager: Great . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} So .Project Manager: So , what else?User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: And for the power source we are having solar cells and rechargeable batteries and this and uh the basis station isgoing to have the input from the mm power line for for charging the batteries .Marketing: {vocalsound} Is it really weight ? Is it light or {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: It is very light .Project Manager: Yeah , they're light .User Interface: It's it's uh it's about the weight of a banana .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager:{vocalsound}Marketing: Okay .User Interface: You know , to give you the correct look and feel .Project Manager: {gap}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing:OkIndustrial Designer: And we have put these different colours so that people don't mistake them mistake it as a banana .User Interface: {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: Otherwise it's you know a child comes and so {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay . Yeah yeah yeah , I see . I under I understand .User Interface: I think achild would try to eat it anyway , so maybe we shouldIndustrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: consider that . {gap} maybe health and safety aspects .ProjectManager: Ah yeah .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .User Interface: {gap}Industrial Designer: Oh we didn't think of that yet . Yeah .User Interface: Yeah .ProjectManager: So for the power source , apparently you still {disfmarker} you you want to use both solar cells and batteries .Industrial Designer: Oh yeah that's right.Project Manager: Uh you mean {disfmarker} okay . So {disfmarker}User Interface: I don't really know if the solar cells are actually necessary any more if youhave a recharging base station .Project Manager: Yeah , where are going to {disfmarker} where are you are you going to place them ?Industrial Designer:Mm-hmm mm-hmm . It'll It'll be always at top somewhere at there .User Interface: If I was gonna place them I'd put them on the on the top here since that'slike uh the black bitProject Manager: You have enough surface ? You {gap} {disfmarker}User Interface: but yeah I don't I really don't think it's necessary to havethe solar cells anymore .Industrial Designer: Yeah because now we are having rechargeable batteriesProject Manager: Okay .User Interface: Mm .IndustrialDesigner: so that that is {gap} .Project Manager: What will be the autonomy ? Roughly ?User Interface: The what sorry ?Project Manager: The autonomy .Autonomy .User Interface: What do you mean ?Project Manager: Uh I mean how long does i how how how long can it be held off a station ?Marketing: How longthe {disfmarker} how long the bit the batteries long .User Interface: Ah . Ah . A long time .Project Manager: Yeah . A long {disfmarker} {vocalsound}UserInterface: {vocalsound} No no no ,Industrial Designer: Eight to ten eight to ten hours .Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: it can {disfmarker} it should beweeks .Industrial Designer: N most {disfmarker} no most of the time it's not being used .Project Manager: Yeah , so it's {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah but ypeople don't like to put it back in the base station all the time people leave wanna leave it on the couch so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So when when youare making it on {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's used only when you {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm . Mm-hmm . No eight or eight or ten hours ofworking .User Interface: Ah , okay .Industrial Designer: If you are just leaving like that it'll be much longer .User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: Yeah . Fweeks .User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah . That's right .Project Manager: Right . Next slide ?Industrial Designer: Yeah . And we are having thespeakers regular chip for control . Pricing is {disfmarker} was a factor so that's why we have gone for a regular chip only not the advanced chip . And uh that's it.Project Manager: Okay . {gap} Okay . Those really sounds very good .Industrial Designer: That's right .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Nothing else to add ?UserInterface: It seems to be falling over .Marketing: I l yeah .Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: I like I like it . Maybe the the thing that convince me the less is the{vocalsound} the multifunctional buttons . Looks a bit {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: You want to have more functional buttons ?Marketing: Looks a bitpuzzled uh I dunno how to say {vocalsound} that .Industrial Designer: You are not convinced .Marketing: You {disfmarker} the the b the buttons change h htheir function depending if y it's teletext or not {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Not not many , we we want to keep it simple . So that this button fo is forteletext which is usually also the case , that usually there is a teletext button and once you press that , the channel buttons , they baco become the scrollingbuttons .Marketing: And the volume button will will become {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: It's up to you , means .Project Manager: Well in fact b both will be{disfmarker} could be useful , navigating through teletext .Industrial Designer: Now that {disfmarker} Means let's say this this can move the the larger digits andthis can move the smaller digits .User Interface: Or can move between positions in the in the number .Industrial Designer: That's right .Project Manager: Yeah