Project Manager: So we are here to talk about functional design . Now hopefully we've all got a better idea from {vocalsound} {disfmarker} than we did f leavingthe last meeting as to what it is we are up to now . So here's an agenda . Uh I'll open . Um you should know that I'll be taking minutes during all the meetings ,as I was struggling to our last time uh and that'll be easier for me now because I'm not actually giving the whole presentation . Uh the additional points are justthe stuff that we sent and that I forwarded on from upper management having a few bright ideas to make our lives painful .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}{vocalsound}Project Manager: Um {vocalsound} now {vocalsound} you can all give your presentations . We can talk about the requirements and hopefully cometo some decisions . {vocalsound} Right , forty minutes for this meeting , so a bit more time than the last one . Here's the additional points I just wanted to putthose in there to see if you guys had any comments on them . Uh did you all receive that email ?User Interface: Yep .Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: So doesanyone have any overall {gap}Marketing: Well {vocalsound} uh what comes up for me is that if we're gonna if we're gonna be marketing a product that is goingto be uh having {vocalsound} no teletext , people are very comfortable {vocalsound} with {vocalsound} the idea of having teletext and using teletext , and sowe're not {disfmarker} we're gonna be a new product without something that people are very comfortable having right now .Project Manager: Mm . Mm . Yep.Marketing: So that's , from a marketing perspective I I see I see a lack .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: And so we have to go , I think , in the other direction .What are we gonna have that makes this thing better than {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well tha that first point could uh also be an op opportunity because inseeing that teletext is becoming outdated , some sort remote control that can work with the Internet {disfmarker} {vocalsound} there is the opportunity that'spresented , I guess .Marketing: {vocalsound} Right . Yeah . No , I I agree with you .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: So what I'm talking about is I see thatone side we're eliminating something so we have to come up with another side which is , what are we gonna be targeting our market uh that {vocalsound}identifies our product as better than {disfmarker} because it doesn't have teletext it has ta-ta-ta-ta-ta .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: So that's that's thatwas my reactions .Project Manager: Yeah . but but we are sort of being dictated that this should only be for the television .Marketing: Yeah yeah .ProjectManager: So we're quite fixed . So we're really probably , in terms of marketing , are looking for that's uh that's a cost winner rather than a fantastic new featureproduct .Marketing: Yep .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah bu but we we're designing only the remote ,Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: Okay .IndustrialDesigner: we not design the T_V_ .Project Manager: Hmm .Industrial Designer: So uh we're gonna be removing the teletext out of any T_V_ that we{disfmarker} people use our remote with .Marketing: Yeah . 'Kay .Project Manager: Hmm .Marketing: That's right .Industrial Designer: So it's kind of a stupiddecision .Marketing: I think we take with you .Project Manager: But there's also the potential for mark there's a market here for our lost teletext .User Interface:Right .Project Manager: For example someone that just goes to the shop that wants a replacement {disfmarker} wants it as {vocalsound} cheap as possible .Twenty-five Euros is the selling price , we really have to innovate here I guess .Marketing: That's what I'm that's what I'm talking about is is that we have to findsomething that is gonna be very attractive about this product 'cause somebody , some people are gonna be hap unhappy 'cause it took {disfmarker} they can'tac access their teletext .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: Okay . 'Cause we're talking about {vocalsound} eighty percent or ninety percent or ninety-five percentof the televisions out there are are teletext .Project Manager: K yeah .Marketing: So so it's it's not that I'm criticizing the product at all . It's just when weeliminate that then what do we bring ? What are we bringing in to take the place of this ,Project Manager: Mm 'kay .Marketing: and we have to d {disfmarker} inmy opinion we have to double up .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: If we lose one we need to bring two or three .Project Manager: Okay . Okay Ithink that the {vocalsound} last point is probably quite uh straightforward . Obviously the the {disfmarker} w it has to be branded . 'Kay .Industrial Designer: Sothen the double R_ will be our our {disfmarker}Project Manager: On the product yeah . Can you handle that black and yellow ?User Interface: I think one of{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I tho I tho I thou I think Rol Ro Rolls-Royce might mind , but don't worry .User Interface: I think w , yeah , one of the thingsthat we should also keep in mind um when we're doing this {disfmarker} I mean our company's slogan is we put the fashion in electronics , right . So I think ourkind of {disfmarker} our target here is to {vocalsound} have some kind of very like sleek {vocalsound} nice look remote and we want it to be functional as well ,but I think one of the main selling points is that we don't want it to be clunky like like this thing here .Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: You know we don'twanna a big clunker . We want something that looks nice and it's fashionable and so {disfmarker}Marketing: So you have this ?Project Manager: Nah . So wehave three presentations , and I think we'll go in order of participant number here . So we can have a look at the working design first from participant two . That's{disfmarker} {gap} Okay .Industrial Designer: Yes .User Interface: That's fine . Okay soProject Manager: Mm it's enough . But uh click it on off ?User Interface:so you all know me , I'm the Industrial Designer . And we've some basic components that um our remote is gonna need , just basically every remote'll need 'em.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: We need some kinda of power d power source . Um we have to decide on our our user interface , which is hisdepartment , but the in user interface is also a major component . Um we need a programmable digital signal processor to um to take the input from the user andtranslate that into uh into electronic signal , which we pass to the infra-red L_E_D_ , which you aim at the television uh which {disfmarker} and it receives thatsignal . You need a on-off switch um I don't know how that got in there . And uh we also need to um have the {vocalsound} {disfmarker} if we want a universalremote we need to have encryption codes for the different makes of T_V_s . So we need to know all the different you know all the different signals and so that'llrequire some memory as well . Um so here's just a basic layout of how how the remote would work . You ha the v the power source is in the upper right-handcorner there , and you can see that uh we have the user interface here which is connected to the chip which does all our signal processing , and then passes thatsignal on to the infra-red L_E_D_ and that signal is then emitted and received by the television at the photo-transistor . So {vocalsound} those are the basiccomponents that need to go into this and everything else is pretty much uh open to move around .Marketing: Now is {disfmarker} would this be {vocalsound}considered just a standard uh um {disfmarker}User Interface: I think any desMarketing: This is not this is not cutting edge technology we're talking here .UserInterface: No .Marketing: We're talking about existing technology .User Interface: Right I think {disfmarker}Marketing: Nothing is being modified or upgraded ornew discoveries .User Interface: Yeah this is just {disfmarker} this is just a basic layout of ev {vocalsound} of all the components that w w are gonna beabsolutely necessary f to have a working remote . We can add things in like if we wanted some voice recognition , I mean that {vocalsound} I mean{vocalsound} that you can kinda say would {vocalsound} would fall under the user interface and the digital signal processing chip .Marketing: Okay . Okay.Project Manager: Do we have an idea of costs of different components ?User Interface: Um well the most the most costly components are gonna be the chip andthe uh th it could als basically the user interface and the casing are gonna be expensive as well .Project Manager: 'Kay .User Interface: Um the L_E_D_ and thethe transistors and everything else are you know they're they're pretty cheap . So depending on what we want our functionality to be , um the chip could beexpensive or it could be cheap .Project Manager: Mm 'kay .User Interface: Um depending on the n amount of memory we need in there and stuff like that and hand h {vocalsound} you know how much power .Project Manager: Do we have any ballpark figures for that yet ? No .User Interface: Uh I don't have any figuresright now .Project Manager: 'Kay .User Interface: We uh we have to wait until we get to a more specific design phase for that .Project Manager: Yeah .UserInterface: Um but {disfmarker} and I think a significant part of the cost could be the actual the actual casing itself and and you know the the b the buttons andthings like that , I think .Marketing: N okay . Mm . Mm the shell ?User Interface: Yeah . Basically yeah .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface:So yeah . That's all I have really .Project Manager: Okay . Thanks . And we have participant three , which I believe is Pedro .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I{disfmarker}Project Manager: I can give you that to click on .Industrial Designer: Hey mouse .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Open .{vocalsound}Project Manager: And you wanna get {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: When we're fighting over it's also more {disfmarker} lot more fun .{vocalsound}Project Manager: View a slide show , that's what you wanna do , yeah ? Just go up to view .User Interface: Click , don't {disfmarker} Yeah.Industrial Designer: Uh .Project Manager: Mm 'kayIndustrial Designer: This doesn't work . {vocalsound} So yeah function design . Um you guys know me , Pedro, and um what I found is we want to do fashion and I think , honestly , we should keep technology low and just simple basically and try to aim for design . Ifbasically a case will will cost the same if it looks good or bad so we ma we have to make it look good . Um something cute and small . The big chunky remotes aredied in the eighties . So we should just go for something that people will like to actually look at .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: And umalthough mo most people will buy s televisions and everything for uh {disfmarker} that have loads of loads of little functions and everything and they mostly endup using simple functions and little things and most the people won't won't get too mad of actually having to go the {disfmarker} to the s to the television to , forinstance , tune in their {disfmarker} the stations . There's no need to have that in the remote . So um um as for what I would recommend for uh the the interfacedesign , and uh I will change the colours on the on the logo , but {vocalsound} um we should go for the user-oriented device , so simple controls and good


Grad E: As usual .Grad B: Yes . Whew ! I almost forgot {pause} about the meeting . I woke up twenty minutes ago , thinking , what did I forget ?Grad D: It 'sgreat how the br brain sort of does that .Grad E: Something 's not right here .Grad B: Internal alarms .Grad D: OK . So the news for me is A , my forthcomingtravel plansGrad B: Yes .Grad D: in two weeks from today ? Yeah ? More or less ? I 'll be off to Sicily and Germany for a couple , three days .Grad B: Now whatare y what are you doing there ? I forgot ?Grad D: OK , I 'm flying to Sicily basically to drop off Simon there with his grandparents . And then I 'm flying toGermany t to go to a MOKU - Treffen which is the meeting of all the module - responsible people in SmartKom ,Grad B: Mmm .Grad D: and , represent ICI andmyself I guess there . And um . That 's the mmm actual reason . And then I 'm also going up to EML for a day , and then I 'm going to {vocalsound} meet thevery big boss , Wolfgang Walster , in Saarbruecken and the System system integration people in Kaiserslautern and then I 'm flying back via Sicily pick up my soncome back here on the fourth of July . And uh .Grad E: What a great time to be coming back to theGrad B: God bless America .Grad E: You 'll see maybe{disfmarker} see the fireworks from your plane coming in .Grad D: And I 'm sure all the {disfmarker} the people at the airport will be happy to work on that day.Grad E: Yeah . You 'll get even better service than usual .Grad B: Wait , aren't you flying on Lufthansa though ?Grad D: Mm - hmm . Alitalia .Grad B: Oh . Wellthen the {disfmarker} you know , it 's not a big deal . Once you get to the United States it 'll be a problem , butGrad D: Yeah . And um , that 's that bit of news ,and the other bit of news is we had {disfmarker} you know , uh , I was visited by my German project manager who A , did like what we did {disfmarker} whatwe 're doing here , and B , is planning to come here either three weeks in July or three weeks in August , to actually work .Grad B: On {disfmarker} ?Grad D:With us .Grad B: Oh .Grad D: And we sat around and we talked and he came up {disfmarker} we came up {disfmarker} with a pretty strange idea . And that 'swhat I 'm gonna lay on you now . And um , maybe it might be ultimately the most interesting thing for Eva because she has been known to complain about thefact that the stuff we do here is not weird enough .Grad C: OK .Grad D: So this is so weird it should even make you happy .Grad C: Uh . {comment} OK .Grad E:Oh great .Grad D: Imagine if you will , {vocalsound} that we have a system that does all that understanding that we want it to do based on utterances .Grad B:Mm - hmm .Grad D: It should be possible to make that system produce questions . So if you have the knowledge of how to interpret " where is X ? " under givenconditions , situational , user , discourse and ontological {vocalsound} conditions , you should also be able to make that same system ask " where is X ? "Grad E:Mm - hmm .Grad D: in a sper certain way , based on certain intentions . So in instead of just being able to observe phenomenon , um , and , guess the intentionwe might be able just to sort of give it an intention , and make it produce an utterance .Grad E: Hmm .Grad B: Well , like in AI they generally do the take in , andthen they also do the generation phase , like Nancy 's thing . Or uh , you remember , in the {disfmarker} the hand thing in one - eighty - two , like not only was itable to recognize but it was also to generate based upon situations . You mean that sort of thing ?Grad D: Absolutely .Grad B: OK .Grad D: And once you 've donethat what we can do is have the system ask itself . And answer , understand the answer , ask something else , and enter a dialogue with itself . So the{disfmarker} the ba basic {disfmarker} the same idea as having two chess computers play against each other .Grad E: Except this smacks a little bit more of aschizophrenic computer than AI .Grad D: Yeah you c if you want , you can have two parallel {vocalsound} machines um , asking each other . What would thatgive us ? Would A be something completely weird and strange , and B , i if you look at all the factors , we will never observe people let 's say , in wheelchairsunder {disfmarker} you know , in {disfmarker} under all conditions ,Grad E: That 's good .Grad D: you know , when they say " X " , and there is a ride at thegoal , and the parking is good , we can never collect enough data . It 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's not possible .Grad E: Mm - hmm . Right , right .GradD: But maybe one could do some learning . If you get the system to speak to itself , you may find n break downs and errors and you may be able to learn . Andmake it more robust , maybe learn new things . And um , so there 's no {disfmarker} no end of potential things one could get out of it , if that works . And hewould like to actually work on that with us .Grad B: Well then , he probably should be coming back a year {pause} from now .Grad D: So Yeah , I w See the{disfmarker} the generation bit , making the system generate {disfmarker} generate something , {comment} is {disfmarker} shouldn't be too hard .Grad B:Well , once the system understands things .Grad E: Yeah . No problem .Grad B: I just don't think {disfmarker} I think we 're probably a year away from gettingthe system to understand things .Grad D: Yeah . Well , if we can get it to understand one thing , like our " where is " run through we can also , maybe , e make itsay , or ask " where is X ? " Or not .Grad E: Mmm , I don't know . e I 'm sort of {disfmarker} have the impression that getting it to say the right thing in the rightcircumstances is much more difficult than getting it to understand something given the circumstances and so on , you know , I mean just cuz it 's sort of harderto learn to speak correctly in a foreign language , rather than learning to understand it . Right ? I meanGrad D: Grad E: just the fact that we 'll get {disfmarker}The point is that getting it to understand one construction doesn't mean that it will n always know exactly when it 's correct to use that construction . Right ?GradD: It 's {disfmarker} it 's uh {disfmarker} Well , I 've {disfmarker} I 've done generation and language production research for fo four {disfmarker} four and ahalf years . And so it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} you 're right , it 's not the same as the understanding . It 's in some ways easier and some ways harder .nuh ?Grad E: Yeah .Grad D: But , um , I think it 'd be fun to look at it , or into that question .Grad E: Nnn , yeah .Grad D: It 's a pretty strange idea . And so that's {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} But {disfmarker}Grad B: The basic idea I guess would be to give {disfmarker} allow the system to have intentions , basically? Cuz that 's basically what needs to be added to the system for it .Grad D: Well , look at th eee , I think even {disfmarker} think even {disfmarker} What it{disfmarker} would be the {disfmarker} the prior intention . So let 's uh {disfmarker} uh , let 's say we have this {disfmarker}Grad B: Well we 'd have to seedthat , I mean .Grad D: No . Let 's {disfmarker} we have to {disfmarker} we have some {disfmarker} some top - down processing , given certain setting . OK ,now we change nothing , and just say ask something . Right ?Grad B: Grad D: What would it ask ?Grad B: It wouldn't know what to ask . I mean .Grad D: ItshurGrad B: Unless it was in a situation . We 'd have to set up a situation where , it didn't know where something was and it wanted to go there .Grad D: Yeah!Grad C: Mm - hmm .Grad D: Yeah .Grad B: Which means that we 'd need to set up an intention inside of the system . Right ? Which is basically , " I don't knowwhere something is and I need to go there " .Grad D: Eh , nGrad E: Yeah .Grad D: Ooh , do we really need to do that ? Because ,Grad B: Well , no I guess not .ExcelGrad D: s It 's {disfmarker} i I know it 's {disfmarker} it 's strange , but look at it {disfmarker} look at our Bayes - net . If we don't have {disfmarker} Let's assume we don't have any input from the language . Right ? So there 's also nothing we could query the ontology , but we have a certain user setting . If youjust ask , what is the likelihood of that person wanting to enter some {disfmarker} something , it 'll give you an answer .Grad B: Sure .Grad D: Right ? That 'sjust how they are . And so , @ @ whatever that is , it 's the generic default intention . That it would find out . Which is , wanting to know where something is ,maybe nnn {disfmarker} and wanting {disfmarker} I don't know what it 's gonna be , but there 's gonna be something thatGrad E: Well you 're not gonna{disfmarker} are you gonna get a variety of intentions out of that then ? I mean , you 're just talking about like given this user , what 's the th what is it{disfmarker} what is that user most likely to want to do ?Grad D: Well you can observe some user and context stuff and ask , what 's the posterior probabilitiesof all of our decision nodes .Grad E: And , have it talk about {disfmarker} OK .Grad D: You could even say , " let 's take all the priors , let 's observe nothing " ,and query all the posterior probabilities . It - it 's gonna tell us something . Right ?Grad B: Well , it will d r assign values to all the nodes . Yes .Grad D: And{disfmarker} Yes . And come up with posterior probabilities for all the values of the decision nodes . Which , if we have an algorithm that filters out whatever the{disfmarker} the best or the most consistent answer out of that , will give us the intention ex nihilo . And that is exactly what would happen if we ask it toproduce an utterance , it would be b based on that extension , ex nihilo , which we don't know what it is , but it 's there . So we wouldn't even have to{disfmarker} t to kick start it by giving it a certain intention or observing anything on the decision node . And whatever that {disfmarker} maybe that would leadto " what is the castle ? " ,Grad B: I 'm just {disfmarker}Grad D: or " what is that whatever " .Grad B: I guess what I 'm afraid of is if we don't , you know , set upa {pause} situation , {comment} we 'll just get a bunch of garbage out , like you know , everything 's exactly thirty percent .Grad D: No {disfmarker}Grad C:Mmm .Grad D: Yeah . So what we actually then need to do is {disfmarker} is write a little script that changes all the settings , you know , go goes through all thepermutations , which is {disfmarker} we did a {disfmarker} didn't we calculate that once ?Grad B: Well that was {disfmarker} that was absurdly low , in the lastmeeting ,Grad D: It 's a {disfmarker}Grad C: Uh ,Grad B: cuz I went and looked at it cuz I was thinking , that could not be right , and it would {disfmarker} itwas on the order of twenty output nodes and something like twenty {disfmarker}Grad C: And like thirty input nodesGrad B: thirty input nodes .Grad C: or some{disfmarker}Grad B: So to test every output node , uh , would at least {disfmarker} Let 's see , so it would be two to the thirty for every output node ? Which isvery th very large .Grad D: Oh ! That 's nGrad E: Oh .Grad D: that 's {disfmarker} that 's nothing for those neural guys . I mean , they train for millions andmillions of epochs .Grad B: Well , I 'm talking aboutGrad D: So .Grad B: Oh , I was gonna take a drink of my water . I 'm talking about billions and billions andbillions and a number {disfmarker} two to the thirty is like a Bhaskara said , we had calculated out and Bhaskara believes that it 's larger than the number of


Project Manager: Wait for the marketing director actually , so . Anyways . Uh . See , shall we wait ? I'm not sure if he's late or delayed or whatever , so I'm gonnastart soon , we have now {disfmarker} don't have much time anyway .User Interface: Oh , there he is .Industrial Designer: Okay ,Marketing: Yes .ProjectManager: There you are ,Industrial Designer: we {disfmarker}Marketing: Sorry ,Project Manager: okay .Marketing: a little bit of pl little problem with computer.Project Manager: Uh no problem . We're about to start , so have a seat . Okay , welcome again .Marketing: {vocalsound} {gap} .Project Manager: Today ,functional design phase . I'll take you over the minutes of last last meeting . Okay , that was just to get to know each other ,Marketing: Uh .Project Manager:have a little thoughts on what your vision is and {disfmarker} on this project , so {disfmarker} I put the minutes on the {disfmarker} I made on the on the p thethe project share , so if you wanna review them , they're there . I will do so after every meeting , so if you have some information you wanna take back you canfind it there . Anyways , um today three presentations , from every one of you . Um after that I got some new project requirements from project board , so we'regonna go af go after {disfmarker} over this later . But I wanna start with uh stuff you did first , so we can see what everybody came up with . And after that wecan have the new requirements and share some thoughts , so . Who would like {disfmarker} wanna go first ?Marketing: Yeah , sure , no problem .ProjectManager: Take it .User Interface: Go ahead .Marketing: Um there was a little problem with my computer so not uh the whole uh presentation uh{disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Anyway , let's see what you have .Marketing: Yeah . Um {disfmarker} Okay ,Project Manager: Uh it's still a bit open.Marketing: I want to open the my s oh no .Project Manager: You should close it on your own notebook , I guess . Yeah . So there ?Marketing: Oh no ,ProjectManager: Okay .Marketing: that's okay . Uh slide show . Yes . The functional requirements , it's uh {vocalsound} uh very important for uh the user , he he wantsto {disfmarker} yeah . The the method we used uh it it's not m not a slide , because it went wrong , but the method we use uh , um {vocalsound} we tested it wuh with uh a hundred uh men , and we asked them to w uh what the remote uh f feel uh like and uh what what's uh important . Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager:If I can cut in , is it people or men ? {vocalsound}Marketing: People ,Project Manager: Is it people , okay .Marketing: sorry .Project Manager: 'Cause I thought itwas only men ,Marketing: Both women and men ,Project Manager: so {disfmarker}Marketing: yeah .Project Manager: 'Kay .Marketing: Okay . Uh the findings umuh {vocalsound} seventy five percent of the users find most remote controls ugly . Um {disfmarker}User Interface: That's pretty shocking uh .{vocalsound}Project Manager: So we have to s we have to do something about that .Marketing: Yeah , and {disfmarker} yeah , most th th they want to spendmoney for a better system , for better remote control , so we can do uh a l a little uh nice things with it , and um they use {disfmarker} yeah , they use zap a lot ,um uh fifty percent say they only {disfmarker} So that's the most important things .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: Um {disfmarker} oh yeah , not all of it isit on mine on my PowerPoint presentation ,Project Manager: Okay , just talk ahead .Marketing: but um uh the relevant buttons are the power , the channelselection and the volume selection .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: It's uh the most basic buttons that a user wants uh {vocalsound} to use . Uh lessimportant is tel teletext ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}Marketing: uh um they use it , but it's not uh very uh important uh on the scale of zero to tenthey six and a half uhProject Manager: Okay , that's okay .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: and {disfmarker} but not important is the channel selection ,the the {vocalsound} {disfmarker} hmm ?Project Manager: That's a little weird .Marketing: Oh , {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Which channelselection ?Marketing: the the {disfmarker} no no no no no , that's very important , but uh w and not important in the audio settings , display settingsProjectManager: Okay ,Marketing: and uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: we can we can hide those under a menu or something ,User Interface: Oh , okay .Marketing:Yeah .Project Manager: okay .Marketing: {vocalsound} Um new preferences preferences . Uh um um beep to find your control , was {disfmarker}ProjectManager: That's like a button on your T_V_ ?Marketing: that was {gap} in the test , the the most people uh f find it uh irritating uh when they cannot find a remtheir remote control ,Project Manager: Remote , okay .Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing: so uh I think it's a bee beep to sound it and uh you can find it . Andanother thing uh they want was uh speech recognition um so they can say uh what they want to {disfmarker} let's go to channel one and uh that's uh kind ofthings .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: And they want maybe an uh L_C_D_ screen um to to look it um wh what's on every channel uh and uh what do I wantwith it ?User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: We wanna have a little preview on the remote control . Preview what's on the channel .Marketing:{vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: Is that manageable ? 'Cause it sounds pretty expensive too .Project Manager: That sounds too{disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: It's possible , but uh I think it's expensive , but do continue .User Interface: Okay .Marketing: Yeah . Um{disfmarker} Uh my personal preferences is uh a button for my favourite channel , so I can uh I dunno , so I can zap to my uh f uh quick uh to my favouritechannel wh what I uh {disfmarker} so , the remote mu must see or um must um {vocalsound} see wha what mine preferences are for which channel ,ProjectManager: Okay , you don't set it yourself ,Marketing: so I can zap t to {disfmarker}Project Manager: it just remembers the channel that you are on most , forexample .Marketing: What ?Project Manager: You want the {disfmarker} you want it to be programmed , for example y programmed fMarketing: Yeah .ProjectManager: or you want it to recognise your favourite channel ?Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: Let's see , you you spend twenty minutes each day on thatchannel ,Marketing: Recognise {disfmarker}Project Manager: so it recognises your favourite channel .Marketing: Yeah . Yeah , that's uh what my personalpreference like .Project Manager: Okay , so it's it it does {disfmarker} it recognise itself , you don't have to set it {disfmarker}Marketing: No ,Project Manager:Okay .Marketing: itself . Maybe it's easier to {vocalsound} to sell it , but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: I don't know it's manageable , but wewill uh we will see .Project Manager: I see .Marketing: Yeah , it's a little bit uh it's the end of it .Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: It's a little bit uh I lost it ,UserInterface: Okay .Marketing: the computer uh crashed ,Project Manager: {vocalsound} No problem , it's it's okay ,Marketing: so .Project Manager: that's{disfmarker} Yeah , go ahead .User Interface: Shall I go ? Okay .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: So , some technical functions .Marketing: Darn computer .UserInterface: Basically I have some issues which you discussed earlier . Uh let's just start with the method .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound} It soundsreally easy , what does the user do , what does the th remote control do , but there are quite some issues . So the things I'm going to concentrate on are the useraspect , because the technical aspect , that's pretty much covered . We can do that . What goes wrong {vocalsound} at the user . Gets the remote control .Where is the remote control ? We've all had it once , I want to watch some television ,Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: where's the remote control ? That was oneof your ideas which you posted in the network folder ,Marketing: Yeah .Project Manager: That seems very good .User Interface: a really good idea . Uh these arejust the issues . I come to some uh personal experience , findings , possible solutions later . Searches for the button . There are many buttons on a remotecontrol which are not clear . Uh so either we lose those or we try to make it a little bit more clear .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Uh also symbolstend to fade after a while .Marketing: Mm uh .User Interface: There's nothing more annoying than faded symbols , because you don't know which channel is thisbutton , so possibly we could find uh something for that ,Project Manager: Okay , so have it more {disfmarker} make it more durable actually . Okay .UserInterface: yes . Uh covered that . Oh yes , user presses the button . Um usually when you have a lot of buttons , buttons are small . So you press more onceremote control goes kablouey or something like that ,Project Manager: Okay , so the buttons should be {disfmarker}User Interface: so we have to pay attentionnot to put too mun too many buttons on uh the remote control . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Yeah .User Interface: And possibly also the size , somore important buttons , biggerProject Manager: Wow . The s Yeah . Make it {disfmarker} make them bigger .User Interface: siProject Manager: Even moredurable uh .User Interface: So this is basically what I h had in mind in the {disfmarker} fade-proof symbols , locator , a sound , uh so clear we should stick toexisting symbols , but maybe we could do a little uh investigation to see whether some symbols are uh {disfmarker} need to be replaced by others . Uh{disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: This I pretty much covered . {vocalsound} So what we want to go to is not this one ,Project Manager: Yeah ,it's true .User Interface: but more {disfmarker} less buttons , easy , some bigger buttons .Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: that's basically uh what I had in mind. SoProject Manager: Yeah , that's clear .User Interface: This is not the final design ,Project Manager: No , of course uh {disfmarker}User Interface: this is just ageneral idea of how I'd like to see uh basically the general idea .Project Manager: Yeah . I must say that it {disfmarker} Hmm .User Interface: {vocalsound} Sothat was it .Project Manager: That was it . Okay , that was good . So we agree on the the part that we need to get something on the on the remote to find itsomewhere and increase it {disfmarker} the durability of of the thing ,User Interface: Yeah , I think it's a really good idea .Project Manager: so {disfmarker}UserInterface: Yeah .Project Manager: The other aspects , we'll just see how {disfmarker} what you came up with and what's possible for that budget .User Interface:Yeah .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: Okay , that's fine . Um . Okay , now work a little with me . Okay . Well ,Project Manager:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: let's start it as it is . Okay , uh the method . There are a few questions that need to be answered , uh you already uh talkedabout it a little bit . Which buttons are wanted , uh is our remote control universal or should it be programmable . Uh if it should be programmeab grammeale


Marketing: Did you get my email with the slides ? Ah . Tricky .Industrial Designer: I guess I have to change the pen otherwise . Will be completely different.Marketing: Dunno . Maybe they're supposed {disfmarker} the pen's supposed to go over the seats . Might be seat floor rather than person . Yeah , put it back.Industrial Designer: Yeah . And do you think {vocalsound} it's {gap} .Marketing: Yep {vocalsound} . Yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay .Marketing:Jo's making faces at me . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: So . Matthew is uh late again .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager:{vocalsound} Probably an important man . Um . So well it is important for him to be here uh .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .Project Manager: He he he{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So what can you {disfmarker} {gap} ?Project Manager: You did work together didn't you ?Industrial Designer: Yeah we will{disfmarker} yeah , so I will be able to to summarize uh our meeting ,Project Manager: Yes .Industrial Designer: but still I think uh it would be in very importantif the uh as um main designer . I think we can put on the {gap} here .Project Manager: Yes . Yes .Industrial Designer: Uh basically w yeah we we designed thetwo uh items .Project Manager: Mm . Um yesIndustrial Designer: Um , can we have a phone ,Project Manager: but w we {disfmarker} {vocalsound}{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: can someone {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yes , maybe we should phone him . Um well {disfmarker} Um ,Industrial Designer:it's really w well designed {vocalsound} .Marketing: Mm . Mm , object tracking . {vocalsound}Project Manager: when he is not here we will just we just have tocontinue . Um so just for record I I will take uh notes again .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Okay .Project Manager: And um well {vocalsound} first thinguh I was uh uh I got an email from uh from my superior again that we really should stay within the budget of the uh twelve Euro and fifty cents .IndustrialDesigner: 'Kay .Project Manager: when you stay in it's good , when you don't stay in you have to redesign . There is no {vocalsound} uh no negotiation uh{vocalsound} possible in this matter . So we have to consider that . {vocalsound} Good .Industrial Designer: Yep .Project Manager: Um so maybe Anna , you canhave your presentation .Marketing: Well we can't {disfmarker} no {disfmarker} we can't do evaluation 'til we have a design .Project Manager: Okay Matthew .Nice uh you are here .Industrial Designer: Great .Project Manager: Great . Great . Oh ma maybe then you can start now with mm presenting your uh yourdesigns .Industrial Designer: Yep . So I will start by the the basic one that uh fits into uh eight Euros actually , right , seven eight Euros ,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: and uh well first for both they have um a special shape , maybe the designer can uh explain better than me , but uh it's like a surf board.Marketing: Mm 'kay .Industrial Designer: And you you are supposed to surf to browse to surf T_V_ , maybe the web , and uh it's kind of interesting shapebecause um unconsciously people want to s to surf {vocalsound} when they see this stuff .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}UserInterface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Or browse .Industrial Designer: And also it's not too far from um a mobile .Marketing:Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: So people are used to that kind of shape ,User Interface: Mm .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer:right . Don't take care too much about the colour because w yeah we don't take {disfmarker}User Interface: Now we are supposed to give some oper offers rightnow .Industrial Designer: yeah . So here would be basically the the the infrared uh uh ledMarketing: {vocalsound} Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Eye .UserInterface: {vocalsound} I {disfmarker} yeah .Industrial Designer: yeah L_A_ L_A_ L_E_D_ ,User Interface: L_E_D_ .Industrial Designer: the on-off button , inred .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Here would be the volume . On the on the left ,Marketing: Oh yeah .Project Manager: Uh-huh .IndustrialDesigner: okay , so {gap}User Interface: Mm-hmm , hmm .Project Manager: Yes .Industrial Designer: easy to turn on t and off . And um so this is a very cheapversion so there are {disfmarker} maybe you can carry on uh Matthew .User Interface: Also {vocalsound} so you have uh uh browsing the channels ,actuallyMarketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: so you can go up and down the channels ,Marketing: Yeah .User Interface: uh , if you have a video or somethingyou can forward , back .Industrial Designer: How can you change from V_C_R_ to uh T_V_ , by the way ?User Interface: Oh {gap} no no no , this is a single{disfmarker} this this is a model with just the T_V_ one .Industrial Designer: Okay yeah . Yeah yeah .Project Manager: Ah , okay .User Interface: No no justsorry , this is a standard T_V_ one , we are not talking about that . So and then we have usually there twelve keys but we know that we rel that we have only tendigits .Marketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: The extra two are for uh having or giving an option for uh having more than one channel . And the other one is forthe teletext or something you want to browse through from that . Actually .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Okay soProject Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing:it's it's t a very basic remote then , it's only {disfmarker}User Interface: It's a very basic minimal thingMarketing: Mm .Project Manager: Yeah . Yeah . Yeah .UserInterface: which you can {disfmarker} which is which is also available in the market , actually that's what it {gap} {disfmarker} that it {disfmarker}{vocalsound} iIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: and would cost us to build it about eight Euros .Project Manager: Mm .Marketing: Mm .IndustrialDesigner: Seven , eight , ei eight Euros .Project Manager: Exce except for the for the special shape , the surfing board , it has a quite a a conventional layout ofbuttons uh .User Interface: Yeah . Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: So this one modelMarketing: Can I see ?User Interface: and uh {disfmarker}yeah . Sure .Marketing: Thanks . Okay I like the volume control , that's good .Industrial Designer: {gap} {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Th{vocalsound} this is a magic one but I know we don't want to talk about that ,Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: you know like {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}User Interface: uh i i i it is a very futuristic , it's like uh it's like a brain machine interface and all this stuff we are thinking about in thefuture , it can come .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Uh-huh .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: So it doesn'tactually have buttons .User Interface: {vocalsound} So that uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker} then what we look tMarketing: Did you wanna see ?User Interface:yeah .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Yeah no you can carry on ,User Interface: This is a model ,Project Manager: I just look how it feels all .User Interface: yeah.Project Manager: Yes it really feels like like like a mobile phone .Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: Yep .Project Manager: Just I'm{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah actually , yeah .Project Manager: I really want to talk to it .Marketing: {vocalsound} It won't talk back .{vocalsound}Project Manager: But {gap} .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} So but but continue with your uhUser Interface: Uhso wellProject Manager: mm-hmm .User Interface: then the this is the {vocalsound} a more a little uh smoothIndustrial Designer: {gap}User Interface: and itgives a lot of functionality , uh in this way , so all we have uh th you see there are only six keys , but don't worry they are ma they are doing the job of twelvekeys actually here .Marketing: Right .Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: And so they have more space actuallyMarketing: Mm-hmm .User Interface: and uhit's easy to uh use this and uh you have um so this is a standard uh {gap} uh infrared eye , and then you have a power button , which l volume , what you have,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: and then other than that you have uh channel up and down and uh f slow pause or s slow loIndustrial Designer: Play, pause .User Interface: yeah s pause or stop , and uh then uh you can uh you have a L_C_D_ display , hereProject Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: and uh ythis is a functional thing which can change like it's a toggle switch which could change the function say , y you press it {disfmarker}Project Manager: FromD_V_D_ player to television or something .Industrial Designer: Exactly yeah . To audio and to video on demand .User Interface: Yeah . I really can change it,Project Manager: Yes .User Interface: so {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: Instead of having many switches , y {vocalsound}Marketing:Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Yes and and and then you get feedback via the L_C_D_ yeah .User Interface: The L_C_D_ can display what is that on that ,IndustrialDesigner: Yes .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: and uh well you can have a integrated microphone over here ,Industrial Designer: This is the orangebutton , the {vocalsound} microphone .User Interface: or in the button th here ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: so which can uh basically you wantto do a speech recognition and uh that channel a lot of information can be di displayed here directly on the um on your on your display .Industrial Designer: Anyeah .User Interface: And here is a small L_E_D_ which is like blinking one ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: which tells you like uh are you runningout of the battery , and which is can be useful for the locating as I was talking earlierProject Manager: Mm-hmm {vocalsound} .Industrial Designer: Yeah .UserInterface: okay . And uh well then we have a cover basically , basically you don't need much of the time this ,Industrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface:{vocalsound} when you need you can use it , and this gives additional functionality that tomorrow you want you can add a tactile thing to this coverProjectManager: Mm . YeahIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Crazy dis designer ,User Interface: you know .Industrial Designer: okay . {vocalsound}User Interface:Design enter {vocalsound} .Project Manager: but but but but uh i in there uh when this is closed , will it also uh cover up the L_C_D_ screen ?User Interface:Yeah .Industrial Designer: Yeah yeah yeah yeah .User Interface: Yeah . It's basically to do that .Project Manager: But but the L_C_D_ screen I mean is a very uhwell an eye-attracting featureIndustrial Designer: Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: which shouldn't be shouldn't be {disfmarker}UserInterface: Actually when you are watching the T_V_ , {vocalsound} when you are watching anything or listening to them , you hardly care about what is gettingdisplayed here ,Industrial Designer: Oh actually {disfmarker} well .Project Manager: {vocalsound} That th that's true .User Interface: you know , uh you want touh {disfmarker} and this gives a protection to the L_C_D_ actually , giving a cover to that actually . Gives a protectionProject Manager: Mm .User Interface:


The Chair (Hon. Anthony Rota (NipissingTimiskaming, Lib.)): I call the meeting to order. Welcome to the seventh meeting of the Special Committee on theCOVID-19 Pandemic. Please note that today's proceedings will be televised in the same way as a typical sitting of the House. We will proceed to ministerialannouncements. I understand that there are no ministerial announcements. That's confirmed. We will now proceed to presenting petitions for a period notexceeding 15minutes. I would like to remind members that any petition presented during a meeting of the special committee must have already been certified bythe clerk of petitions. Once the petition is presented, the member is asked to bring it here to the Table. Mr.Manly is the first one to be allowed to present apetition.Mr. Paul Manly (NanaimoLadysmith, GP): Thank you, Mr. Chair. I rise today to present a petition that has many signatures from constituents inNanaimoLadysmith. They're calling for a ban on cosmetic testing using animals. They want us to follow the European Union model, under which the use of animalsin cosmetic testing has been banned. Moving forward, they're calling for a ban on the sale and manufacture of animal-tested cosmetics and their ingredients inCanada.The Chair: Mr. Poilievre is next.Hon. Pierre Poilievre (Carleton, CPC): Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I rise today to table e-petition 2466, initiated by aconstituent of mine in Stittsville, a beautiful west Ottawa community. The petition has collected 827 signatures from every province and territory. It was collectedby Cara, a mother from my riding who suffered an unthinkable tragedy. Her 11-year-old son Joshua drowned in a boating accident on the St. Lawrence River atRockport, Ontario. Joshua was not wearing a life jacket. Worse, Cara's family had to wait 48 days to recover Joshua's body. Cara is now working tirelessly toamend the small vessel regulations to make it mandatory for children under the age of 14 to wear a life jacket or PFD while they are passengers in or drivers ofsmall vessels covered under parts 2, 3, and 4 of the regulations. I support Cara's efforts, and I'm honoured to table this petition on her behalf.The Chair: Seeingno further petitions to be presented, we'll continue, and we will now proceed to the questioning of ministers. Please note that we will suspend the proceedingsevery 45minutes to allow employees who provide support for the sitting to replace each other safely. Go ahead, Mr. Scheer.Hon. Andrew Scheer (Leader of theOpposition): It was revealed yesterday that this government's policy was to ignore fraud. The Prime Minister's reaction was to act as if everything was normal. Infact, we've learned that over 200,000cases of suspected fraud have been identified in the benefit applications. The Prime Minister is failing our future generations.Our children and grandchildren are going to pay back billions of dollars that he's borrowing to pay tax cheats. Will the Prime Minister protect taxpayers andimmediately begin a review of these 200,000cases of suspected fraud?Right Hon. Justin Trudeau (Prime Minister): Our priority was to get money out quickly to allCanadians who needed it, and that's exactly what we've done. Millions of Canadians have received the money they so desperately needed. Having said that, Iwant to make it very clear, Mr.Chair: Fraud is unacceptable. We have measures in place to detect fraud. All fraudsters will be required to pay back the moneythey fraudulently received from the government. We're going to make sure that this is done in the coming months.Hon. Andrew Scheer: Mr. Chair, Conservativesagree that those who need help should get it, and no one is arguing that they shouldn't, but reports indicate that the Liberals have ordered public servants to turna blind eye to 200,000 cases of suspected fraud. It's a simple question: Yes or no, did the government instruct any government department to ignore red flags orwarnings of fraudulent cases?Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, the priority in this situation was getting money out to the millions of Canadians who needed itas quickly as possible, but of course fraud is unacceptable. That's why we have put safeguards in place to ensure that anyone who received that moneyfraudulently will have to repay it.Hon. Andrew Scheer: It's a yes-or-no question, Mr. Chair. Did the government give any kind of instruction to public servants inany department to ignore red flags or warnings of fraudulent cases, yes or no?Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: The instruction to government officials was to getmoney out to those who needed it as quickly as possible. We have put measures in place to detect fraud. People who got this money fraudulently will have torepay.Hon. Andrew Scheer: Mr. Chair, it is clear that he can't answer a yes-or-no question, so we can all assume what the answer must be. In other situations,the government is saying no to people. It's letting so many Canadians down. Small business owners who don't happen to have a CRA payroll number or abusiness account are ineligible for the government supports. Individuals, owner-operators, and those who are earning $1 more than $1,000 are being told thatthey don't qualify for the emergency response benefits. Meanwhile, fraudsters are getting them. Does the Prime Minister think it's fair to tell people who arefollowing all the rules no, while telling government officials to allow fraudulent cases to be processed?Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, Canadians well knowthat this is an unprecedented situation, one in which we had to get help to as many Canadians as possible as quickly as possible. That is exactly what we did. Wecontinue to work very hard to fill gaps for people who should get money but haven't been able to, and, as I said, we have strong measures to counter fraud.Anyone who got this money fraudulently will have to repay it.Hon. Andrew Scheer: Mr. Chair, when these programs were first designed, the Prime Minister saidthat he acknowledged that there were problems and that they would be fixed later. Well, here we are in May, and hundreds of thousands of Canadians are beingtold no for purely technical and bureaucratic reasons. Will the Prime Minister make the simple changes to allow business owners who don't happen to have abusiness bank account, who don't happen to have a CRA payroll number and individuals who are ineligible for the emergency response benefit because they'vebeen paid by family members through dividends to qualify, or is he going to continue to let hundreds of thousands of Canadians down during this pandemic?RightHon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, from the beginning of this pandemic, we moved extremely rapidly to get help and support to millions of Canadians. That was thepriority, and that's what we've been doing for the past two months. As we've said, we will continue to tweak and improve the programs to make sure that morepeople who need help will get it. We are working the best we can, as fast as we can, to help those millions of Canadians who need support.The Chair: You havetime for about a 15-second question, Mr. Scheer.Hon. Andrew Scheer: Mr. Chair, the Prime Minister indicated that he would support Taiwan's inclusion in theWHO only as a non-state observer. Of course, that designation does not exist. Participants of the WHO are either states or NGOs. Will the Prime Minister supportTaiwan's participation as a state observer?The Chair: The Right Honourable Prime Minister has 15 seconds or less, please.Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair,we will continue with our one China policy, but we have always advocated Taiwan's meaningful inclusion in international bodies where it makes sense to do so,and that includes at the WHO.The Chair: Mr.Blanchet now has the floor.Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet (BeloeilChambly, BQ): Thank you very much, Mr.Chair. OnFriday, students in Quebec and Canada will be able to apply for the Canada emergency student benefit, which is a good thing. This program was necessary,particularly because the number of students who won't be able to get back their jobs from last year is much higher than the number of jobs that might beavailable to these young people. There are also issues of duration. We don't know how long these jobs will remain unavailable. People talked about a risk to beingin the labour market and meeting the needs of the labour market. On April29, the Deputy Prime Minister made a formal commitment to ensure that theseprograms are accompanied by work incentives for youth and all CESB recipients. So that everyone knows what they're getting into, I'd like to know whether theemployment incentives that will accompany the Canada emergency response benefit will be known by Friday.Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: I thank the hon. memberfor understanding the importance of supporting students who, for the most part, won't be able to get the summer jobs they were counting on. Young people don'tjust want to earn money; they also want to gain work experience. That's why we're setting up programs, including Canada summer jobs, but also anotherprogram with 76,000new jobs for young people in important sectors, so that young people can also get jobs. We will continue to work with youth and employersto ensure that gaps in the labour market are addressed, while ensuring that youth are well-supported.Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet: That's very interesting, but itdoesn't answer my question at all. People in the fishing, tourism and agricultural sectors, as well as municipalities and, from the very beginning, of course, theGovernment of Quebec, more generally, have expressed fears that job gains will cause people to lose their benefits and discourage them from going to work. Theonly way to avoid that is to ensure that people keep more money as they work more. That is the principle. In fact, we propose that over the $1,000no-penaltylimit, half of the earnings be exempt from penalty. Is this something that could be considered? Since it's been two weeks since the commitment was made and it'surgent, can we act now? The emergency shouldn't last eight months.Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr.Chair, young people need money, but they also need workexperience. This is an unprecedented situation, which is why we're working with seasonal industries and the different regions to make sure they have a sufficientworkforce in their situation. Students can be part of it, but at the same time we must provide the necessary support for those who can't find a job. That's why wecontinue to work with the industries involved to ensure that they have a sufficient workforce while we support students.Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet: Unfortunately,the spirit of it doesn't seem to have been understood. I doubt that, even in the best-case scenario, the government will be able to get all the jobs needed in atimely manner for all these young people to decide to go ahead. So, first of all, there will be a shortage of jobs. Second, people aren't crazy. If they earn less byworking than they earn by not working, all the good faith in the world won't solve the problem. Can we make sure that people keep more money in their pocketsas they work more? I think we can have a clear answer, given the timeframe. People are going to start registering for the program on Friday. The principles aregood, but a clear answer would be good too.Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Beginning Friday, students will be able to apply for the Canada emergency student


Grad E: I guess .Grad A: OK , we 're on . So just make sure that th your wireless mike is on , if you 're wearing a wireless .Grad E: Check one . Check one .GradA: And you should be able to see which one {disfmarker} which one you 're on by , uh , watching the little bars change .Grad B: So , which is my bar ? Mah !Number one .Grad A: Yep .Grad E: Sibilance . Sibilance .Grad A: So , actually , if you guys wanna go ahead and read digits now , as long as you 've signed theconsent form , that 's alright .Grad E: Are we supposed to read digits at the same time ?Grad A: No . No .Grad E: Oh , OK .Grad A: Each individually . We 'retalking about doing all at the same time but I think cognitively that would be really difficult . {vocalsound} To try to read them while everyone else is .Grad E:Everyone would need extreme focus .Grad A: So , when you 're reading the digit strings , the first thing to do is just say which transcript you 're on .Professor C:Other way . We m We may wind up with ver We {disfmarker} we may need versions of all this garbage .Grad B: For our stuff . Yeah .Professor C: Yeah .Grad A:Um . So the first thing you 'd wanna do is just say which transcript you 're on .Professor C: Yeah .Grad A: So . You can see the transcript ? There 's two largenumber strings on the digits ? So you would just read that one . And then you read each line with a small pause between the lines . And the pause is just so theperson transcribing it can tell where one line ends and the other begins . And I 'll give {disfmarker} I 'll read the digit strings first , so can see how that goes . Um. Again , I 'm not sure how much I should talk about {pause} stuff before everyone 's here .Professor C: Mmm . Well , we have one more coming .Grad A: OK .Well , why don't I go ahead and read digit strings and then we can go on from there .Professor C: OK . Well , we can start doing it .Grad A: Thanks . So , uh , justalso a note on wearing the microphones . All of you look like you 're doing it reasonably correctly , but you want it about two thumb widths away from your mouth, and then , at the corner . And that 's so that you minimize breath sounds , so that when you 're breathing , you don't breathe into the mike . Um . Yeah , that 'sgood . And uh {disfmarker} So , everyone needs to fill out , only once , the speaker form and the consent form . And the short form {disfmarker} I mean , youshould read the consent form , but uh , the thing to notice is that we will give you an opportunity to edit a all the transcripts . So , if you say things and you don'twant them to be released to the general public , which , these will be available at some point to anyone who wants them , uh , you 'll be given an opportunity byemail , uh , to bleep out any portions you don't like . Um . On the speaker form just fill out as much of the information as you can . If you 're not exactly sureabout the region , we 're not exactly sure either . So , don't worry too much about it . The {disfmarker} It 's just self rating . Um . And I think that 's about it . Imean , should I {disfmarker} Do you want me to talk at all about why we 're doing this and what this project is ?Professor C: Um , yeah .Grad A: or {disfmarker}?Professor C: No . There was {disfmarker} there was {disfmarker} Let 's see . Oh {disfmarker}Grad E: Does Nancy know that we 're meeting in here ?Grad B: Isent an email .Professor C: She got an emai she was notified .Grad E: Oh yeah , she got an e Yeah , yeah .Professor C: Whether she knows {vocalsound} isanother question . Um . So are the people going to be identified by name ?Grad A: Well , what we 're gonna {disfmarker} we 'll anonymize it in the transcript .Um , but not in the audio .Professor C: Right .Grad A: So theProfessor C: OK . So , then in terms of people worrying about , uh , excising things from thetranscript , it 's unlikely . Since it {disfmarker} it does isn't attributed . Oh , I see , but the a but the {disfmarker} but the {disfmarker}Grad A: Right , so if I said, " Oh , hi Jerry , how are you ? " , we 're not gonna go through and cancel out the " Jerry "s .Professor C: Yeah . Sure .Grad A: Um , so we will go through and ,in the speaker ID tags there 'll be , you know , M - one O seven , M - one O eight .Professor C: Right .Grad A: Um , but uh ,Professor C: Right .Grad A: um , it wuh , I don't know a good way of doing it on the audio , and still have people who are doing discourse research be able to use the data .Professor C: OK . Mm -hmm . No , I {disfmarker} I wasn't complaining ,Grad A: Yep .Professor C: I just wanted to understand .Grad A: Right .Professor C: OK .Grad B: Well , we canmake up aliases for each of us .Grad A: Yeah , I mean , whatever you wanna do is fine ,Professor C: Right .Grad F: OK .Grad A: but we find that {disfmarker} Wewant the meeting to be as natural as possible . So , we 're trying to do real meetings .Professor C: OK .Grad A: And so we don't wanna have to doaliasesProfessor C: Right .Grad A: and we don't want people to be editing what they say .Grad B: Right .Grad A: So I think that it 's better just as a pro post -process to edit out every time you bash Microsoft .Professor C: Right .Grad B: Mm - hmm .Grad A: You know ?Professor C: Right . Um , OK . So why don't you tellus brieflyGrad A: OK . So thProfessor C: your {disfmarker} give {disfmarker} give your e normal schpiel .Grad A: Um . So this is {disfmarker} The project iscalled Meeting Recorder and there are lots of different aspects of the project . Um . So my particular interest is in the PDA of the future . This is a mock - up ofone . Yes , we do believe the PDA of the future will be made of wood . Um . {comment} The idea is that you 'd be able to put a PDA at the table at an impromptumeeting , and record it , and then be able to do querying and retrieval later on , on the meeting . So that 's my particular interest , is a portable device to do m uh, information retrieval on meetings . Other people are interested in other aspects of meetings . Um . So the first step on that , in any of these , is to collect somedata . And so what we wanted is a room that 's instrumented with both the table top microphones , and these are very high quality pressure zone mikes , as wellas the close talking mikes . What the close talk ng talking mikes gives us is some ground truth , gives us , um , high quality audio , um , especially for people whoaren't interested in the acoustic parts of this corpus . So , for people who are more interested in language , we didn't want to penalize them by having only the farfield mikes available . And then also , um , it 's a very , very hard task in terms of speech recognition . Um . And so , uh , on the far field mikes we can expectvery low recognition results . So we wanted the near field mikes to at least isolate the difference between the two . So that 's why we 're recording in parallel withthe close talking and the far field at the same time . And then , all these channels are recorded simultaneously and framed synchronously so that you can also dothings like , um , beam - forming on all the microphones and do research like that . Our intention is to release this data to the public , um , probably through fthrough a body like the LDC . And , uh , just make it as a generally available corpus . Um . {vocalsound} There 's other work going on in meeting recording . So ,we 're {disfmarker} we 're working with SRI , with UW , Um . NIST has started an effort which will include video . We 're not including video , obviously . And uh{disfmarker} and then also , um , a small amount of assistance from IBM . Is also involved . Um . Oh , and the digit strings , this is just a more constrained task .Um . So because the general environment is so challenging , we decided to {disfmarker} to do at least one set of digit strings to give ourselves something easier .And it 's exactly the same digit strings as in TI - digits , which is a common connected digits corpus . So we 'll have some , um , comparison to be able to be made.Professor C: OK .Grad A: Anything else ?Professor C: No .Grad A: OK , so when the l last person comes in , just have them wear a wireless . It should be onalready . Um . Either one of those . And uh , read the digit strings and {disfmarker} and fill out the forms . So , the most important form is the consent form , sojust be s be sure everyone signs that , if they consent .Grad B: I 'm sure it 's pretty usual for meetings that people come late ,Grad A: Yeah .Grad B: so you willhave to leave what you set .Grad A: Right . And uh , just give me a call , which , my number 's up there when your meeting is over .Professor C: Yep .Grad A:And {disfmarker} I 'm going to leave the mike here but it 's n {nonvocalsound} Uh , but I 'm not gonna be on so don't have them use this one . It 'll just besitting here .Grad B: Input ? Yeah . There we go .Professor C: By the way , Adam , we will be using the , uh , screen as well .Grad B: Yep .Professor C: So , youknow . Wow ! Organization . So you guys who got email about this {pause} oh f uh , Friday or something about what we 're up to .Grad E: No .Grad F: No .GradB: I got it .Grad E: What was the nature of the email ?Professor C: Oh , this was about {pause} um , inferring intentions from features in context , and the words, like " s go to see " , or " visit " , or someGrad B: Wel - we I {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker}Professor C: You didn't get it ?Grad E: Idon't think I did .Professor C: I guess these g have got better filters . Cuz I sent it to everybody . You just blew it off .Grad E: Ah .Professor C: OK .Grad B: It 'sreally simple though . So this is the idea . Um . We could pursue , um , if we thought it 's {disfmarker} it 's worth it but , uh , I think we {disfmarker} we willagree on that , um , to come up with a {disfmarker} with a sort of very , very first crude prototype , and do some implementation work , and do some{disfmarker} some research , and some modeling . So the idea is if you want to go somewhere , um , and focus on that object down {disfmarker} Oh , I canactually walk with this . This is nice . down here . That 's the Powder - Tower . Now , um , {vocalsound} we found in our , uh , data and from experiments , thatthere 's three things you can do . Um , you can walk this way , and come really , really close to it . And touch it . But you cannot enter or do anything else . Unlessyou 're interested in rock climbing , it won't do you no good standing there . It 's just a dark alley . But you can touch it . If you want to actually go up or into thetower , you have to go this way , and then through some buildings and up some stairs and so forth . If you actually want to see the tower , and that 's whatactually most people want to do , is just have a good look of it , take a picture for the family , {comment} you have to go this way , and go up here . And thereyou have a vre really view {disfmarker} It exploded , the {disfmarker} during the Thirty years - war . Really uh , interesting sight . And um , these uh{disfmarker} these lines are , um , paths ,Grad E: Mmm .Grad B: or so That 's ab er , i the street network of our geographic information system . And you can tellthat we deliberately cut out this part . Because otherwise we couldn't get our GIS system to take {disfmarker} to lead people this way . It would always use theclosest point to the object , and then the tourists would be faced , you know , in front of a wall , but it would do them absolutely no good . So , {vocalsound} whatwe found interesting is , first of all , intentions differ . Maybe you want to enter a building . Maybe you want to see it , take a picture of it . Or maybe you actually


Industrial Designer: Oops That's as far as it goes {vocalsound} .Project Manager: Hi guys uh good morning everybody here . And uh I want to introduce myself ,uh my name is uh Shrida Daseri and uh I'm a project manager for this new project which we are going to discuss now . So I want to introduce first of all uh thenames and the colleagues here . And what you're uh drawing ?User Interface: {vocalsound} Uh sure my name is Agnes and I'm an user {disfmarker} usabilityuser interface designer .Marketing: {vocalsound} My name is Ed and I do accounting .Project Manager: Uh how you spell your name uh ?Marketing: E_D_.Project Manager: E_D_ okay .Marketing: Mm .Project Manager: And ?Industrial Designer: Do you also do marketing ?Marketing: {vocalsound} No {vocalsound}.Project Manager: So only accounting ? Okay .Marketing: Accounting , yes .Project Manager: And ?Industrial Designer: And I'm Christine ,Project Manager:Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: and my role in this uh scenario is to be the industrial designer .Project Manager: Industrial designer .Industrial Designer: But I'mnot really one .Project Manager: So who is uh marketing , nobody in the marketMarketing: Marketing is uh , is me {vocalsound} .Project Manager: It's you , okay. So thanks for coming for the meeting first of all , and uh we have a long time , just twenty-five minutes to discuss about uh this project and the the projectinitiation . First of all I want to ask uh Mister Ed about your uh marketing plan and your product plan and uh {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Well I thinkthat we'll see that throughout the day in how we're going to put this together as a marketing to to market the product . We'll have to see on a through discussionon where we're gonna go from here and from {disfmarker} with this .Project Manager: Mm-hmm but uh do you already have like a functional design or atechnical design or {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Uh for the moment not yet .Project Manager: Oh for the moment not yet , okay , but uh what's what'syour uh {disfmarker} do you have some project plan , something with you or {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Good question {vocalsound} . No , this islike I said that we have to be discussed between all of us and we'll go from there . We'll have to {disfmarker} simply we'll have to work on it together .ProjectManager: Mm-hmm . Okay , so uh by when you think you can uh give me some kind of uh project plan , okay , a discussion with uh {disfmarker}Marketing:Certainly by the next meeting .Project Manager: By next meeting , okay that will be great . Uh Okay , so there's any questions or uh first of all about uh thisproject ?Industrial Designer: What is the goal of the project ?Project Manager: Uh the goal of the project I think maybe I'll uh hand out to the Ed , okay , so toexplain uh what is the project because he's in the sales and the accounting .Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: I'm in the salesI'm supposed to explain them what to do {vocalsound} . We have to define exactly what our product is , from uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yes , so can youexplain uh what exactly the product is ?Marketing: From what I had in mind we're supposed to be marketing coffee , is that right ?Project Manager: Oh I think uh, if I'm not wrong , we're making the remote control .User Interface: Um I was wondering {disfmarker}Marketing: Remote controls , 'cause I had two differentthings . I had a first part of mine was to make a remote control for a new f remote control for television , and afterward I had a discussion about coffee so{vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yes .Marketing: we'll start with the remote control for television then . So we're have to design something that isvery user friendly .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: Something uh visual that has something that will will draw people to buy theproduct ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: because I think everybody's experienced with uh remote controls , and some remote controls are are worth uhthrowing out the window . Uh th most of them ar I don't know we're have to come up with a new idea on how to make it a lot easier to use ,Project Manager:Mm-hmm .Marketing: 'cause a lot of times uh spend uh half a day through the instruction book trying to figure out how to use it .Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Mm .Project Manager: And uh what abo uh Christine , what about your uh the industrial design plan ? Are you have a design already on thisproduct or uh you're still working on the design ?Industrial Designer: Um no , I I have not begun working on the design ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .IndustrialDesigner: and um I uh I actually didn't know we were designing a remote control , I thought we were designing a new monitor . Um the website I went to look athad some announcements about an introduction of a um uh some sort of a seven inch um monitor , and um I understood that that was the project goal . So umI'm glad I didn't d do any work um ahead of time because uh I clearly didn't understand the project goal .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: Um I justdid s see that we were starting a new project together and there was going to be a four member team composed of these people , and um that's about uh that's{disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: and I I read through the different steps , and what my responsibilities were relative to the steps.Project Manager: So uh you'll be leading the team for your design team or how many members is working in the team , for the design ?Industrial Designer:{vocalsound} Uh for the industrial design ?Project Manager: Yes .Industrial Designer: Um well , I would th think that depends on how much money you give us.Project Manager: Okay .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: That's {gap}Industrial Designer: Um because uh , you know , you can uh you can make it uh{disfmarker} {vocalsound} you have different choices with different financial models .Project Manager: Yeah , but uh before we talk about uh the finance , okay ,uh do you have some idea how we can uh sell this product or project in the market and how much is going to benefit to the company and uh of course it's to theindividual also .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well , you know um , I kind of think that in general you have to do uh um y you have to have something that'svery fashionable , that's uh very attractive {disfmarker} that um people see and recognize uh its goal , and uh they immediately wanna have it uh have one oftheir own . So it would {disfmarker} really would need to um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} something like the iPod would be good , seems to have caught on fairlywell ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: so um d uh you know , I don't care what it does , just so it looks cool .Project Manager: Okay , but uh uhwhen you think you can give me like a kind of design on the functional design or the technical design ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well , uh I've got a lot ofother projects I'm doing right now um and so I'll have to wait and see how those uh how those go . If they uh go quickly then uh it could be a month . If um if Irun into any problems in my other projects it might be six months .Project Manager: Yeah , but uh I need something in the writing , so like uh what's yourfunctional design , what's your technical design , and uh how many people you need for this project , and what's the time frame you're looking , okay , and whatis the budget , maybe uh initial budget you're looking , okay , and uh how is going to the market , okay ,Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .ProjectManager: so you've you've had to meet with the marketing team and how they're going to market and what are the marketing strategic plan , okay , when areyou going to introduce , okay , and by the time you introduce the product and uh you know there there would be a competition , okay , so I need some kind of uhuh the plan in the writing from you . Okay , and it's poIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} And when would you like that ?Project Manager: B as soon as possible.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh well if uh if we have enough time uh then d do you think um two weeks is a {disfmarker} is close enough ?ProjectManager: Yes I think uh that would be good , because I need to go to the management and uh tell them what we are going to do , and uh what cost is , okay ,and what's the time frame and what's the project plan , because uh without any uh documentations , I cannot go to the management and say , so we are going todo this and we need this much money , okay , so then it's it's difficult for me to say , okay , that's the reason I need uh some kind of plan from you , initially ,okay , then we can have the further discussion again .Industrial Designer: Uh {vocalsound} are there other people who will be contributing to the plan ?ProjectManager: Yes , of course , if you need some help , uh so let me know . So , who are the people you need uh from the marketing or uh the technical side or uh theadministration point of view , okay , to add in any documentation , or some technical point of view ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: so just letme know so I can uh coordinate all the teams .Industrial Designer: Okay , I'll get back to you on that .Project Manager: Yes . Thank you . Okay . And uh Ed uh sowhat's {disfmarker} what do you think about uh this uh project for the remote control and d do you have some already planned something for your marketingstrategy or uh the sales strategy ?Marketing: Well not yet other than uh doing research and taking remote controls and looking what other companies have to douh , what they're building , their designs , their ideas ,Project Manager: {vocalsound} Hmm . {vocalsound}Marketing: uh also have to pinpoint which marketwe're gonna go into .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: It should be a fairly large market because uh the number of people that uh {disfmarker} thecompetition ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: uh th I agree it has to be something {disfmarker} it has to be something new , it has to be something thatthat draws people saying eh , I like this . Whether it works or not , they have to first say I like this , I like the design , and then it's gotta be simple to use .ProjectManager: Yes , so what I uh prefer maybe uh you need to interact uh more with the Christine , okay , because you know what she is going to do it , okay , andyou know how to sell it . Okay , because uh she is doing the design , but you are the core because you are in the marketing , okay ,Marketing: Yeah .ProjectManager: so because you need to sell {disfmarker} and you're the responsible for the all the money , the finance , okay , tomorrow .Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: So , what I prefer , okay , so you need to interact with the Christine more and uh within her team , okay , who is using the functional design ortechnical design , okay ,Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: and uh you need to come up with some kind of plan , okay , how we are going to do the{disfmarker} your sales plan , okay , thMarketing: Do we already have a cost limit on this , th an idea of how much uh we want to market this for , how much it'sgonna sell for ,Project Manager: Th That {disfmarker} that'sMarketing: that's up that's up to us to decide , eh ? {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yes , that's


PhD A: It 's not very significant .Professor B: Uh , channel one . Yes .Grad D: Channel three .Professor B: OK .PhD F: Mm - hmm .Grad D: Channel three .PhD A:TaGrad D: Channel three . Alright .Professor B: OK , did you solve speech recognition last week ?Grad E: Almost .Professor B: Alright ! Let 's do image processing.PhD C: Yes , again .PhD A: Great .PhD C: We did it again , Morgan .Professor B: Alright !Grad E: Doo - doop , doo - doo .PhD A: What 's wrong with {disfmarker}?Professor B: OK . It 's April fifth . Actually , Hynek should be getting back in town shortly if he isn't already .PhD C: Is he gonna come here ?Professor B: Uh .Well , we 'll drag him here . I know where he is .PhD C: So when you said " in town " , you mean {pause} Oregon .Professor B: U u u u uh , I meant , you know ,this end of the world , yeah , {vocalsound} is really what I meant ,PhD C: Oh .Grad E: Doo , doo - doo .Professor B: uh , cuz he 's been in Europe .Grad E: Doo -doo .Professor B: So .PhD C: I have something just fairly brief to report on .Professor B: Mmm .PhD C: Um , I did some {pause} experim uh , uh , just a fewmore experiments before I had to , {vocalsound} uh , go away for the w well , that week .Professor B: Great !PhD C: Was it last week or whenever ? Um , sowhat I was started playing with was the {disfmarker} th again , this is the HTK back - end . And , um , I was curious because the way that they train up themodels , {vocalsound} they go through about four sort of rounds of {disfmarker} of training . And in the first round they do {disfmarker} uh , I think it 's threeiterations , and for the last three rounds e e they do seven iterations of re - estimation in each of those three . And so , you know , that 's part of what takes solong to train the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the back - end for this .Professor B: I 'm sorry , I didn't quite get that . There 's {disfmarker} there 's four andthere 's seven and {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I 'm sorry .PhD C: Yeah . Uh , maybe I should write it on the board . So , {vocalsound} there 's four rounds oftraining . Um , I g I g I guess you could say iterations . The first one is three , then seven , seven , and seven . And what these numbers refer to is the number oftimes that the , uh , HMM re - estimation is run . It 's this program called H EProfessor B: But in HTK , what 's the difference between , uh , a {disfmarker} aninner loop and an outer loop in these iterations ?PhD C: OK . So what happens is , um , at each one of these points , you increase the number of Gaussians in themodel .Professor B: Yeah . Oh , right ! This was the mix up stuff .PhD C: Yeah . The mix up .Professor B: That 's right .PhD C: Right .Professor B: I remember now.PhD C: And so , in the final one here , you end up with , uh {disfmarker} for all of the {disfmarker} the digit words , you end up with , uh , three {pause}mixtures per state ,Professor B: Yeah .PhD C: eh , in the final {pause} thing . So I had done some experiments where I was {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I wantto play with the number of mixtures .Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD C: But , um , uh , I wanted to first test to see if we actually need to do {pause} this manyiterations early on .Grad E: Uh , one , two ,Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD C: And so , um , I {disfmarker} I ran a couple of experiments where I {vocalsound}reduced that to l to be three , two , two , {vocalsound} uh , five , I think , and I got almost the exact same results .Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD C: And{disfmarker} but it runs much much faster . So , um , I {disfmarker} I think m {pause} it only took something like , uh , three or four hours to do the fulltraining ,Professor B: As opposed to {disfmarker} ?PhD F: Good .PhD C: as opposed to wh what , sixteen hours or something like that ? I mean , it takes{disfmarker} you have to do an overnight basically , the way it is set up now .PhD F: Yeah . It depends .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD C: So ,uh , even we don't do anything else , doing something like this could allow us to turn experiments around a lot faster .Professor B: And then when you have yourfinal thing , do a full one , so it 's {disfmarker}PhD C: And when you have your final thing , we go back to this .PhD F: Yeah .PhD C: So , um , and it 's a realsimple change to make . I mean , it 's like one little text file you edit and change those numbers , and you don't do anything else .PhD F: Oh , this is a{disfmarker}PhD A: Mm - hmm .PhD C: And then you just run .PhD F: OK .PhD C: So it 's a very simple change to make and it doesn't seem to hurt all that much.PhD A: So you {disfmarker} you run with three , two , two , five ? That 's aPhD C: So I {disfmarker} Uh , I {disfmarker} I have to look to see what the exactnumbers were .PhD A: Yeah .PhD C: I {disfmarker} I thought was , like , three , two , two , five ,PhD A: Mm - hmm .PhD C: but I I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll doublecheck . It was {vocalsound} over a week ago that I did it ,PhD A: OK . Mm - hmm .PhD C: so I can't remember exactly .Grad E: Oh .PhD C: But , uh{disfmarker}Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD C: um , but it 's so much faster . I it makes a big difference .Grad E: Hmm .PhD C: So we could do a lot moreexperiments and throw a lot more stuff in there .PhD F: Yeah .Professor B: That 's great .PhD C: Um . Oh , the other thing that I did was , um , {vocalsound} Icompiled {pause} the HTK stuff for the Linux boxes . So we have this big thing that we got from IBM , which is a five - processor machine . Really fast , but it 'srunning Linux . So , you can now run your experiments on that machine and you can run five at a time and it runs , {vocalsound} uh , as fast as , you know , uh ,five different machines .PhD A: Mm - hmm .PhD F: Mm - hmm .PhD C: So , um , I 've forgotten now what the name of that machine is but I can {disfmarker} Ican send email around about it .PhD A: Yeah .PhD C: And so we 've got it {disfmarker} now HTK 's compiled for both the Linux and for , um , the Sparcs . Um ,you have to make {disfmarker} you have to make sure that in your dot CSHRC , {vocalsound} um , it detects whether you 're running on the Linux or a{disfmarker} a Sparc and points to the right executables . Uh , and you may not have had that in your dot CSHRC before , if you were always just running theSparc . So , um ,PhD A: Mm - hmm .PhD C: uh , I can {disfmarker} I can tell you exactly what you need to do to get all of that to work . But it 'll {disfmarker} itreally increases what we can run on .Grad E: Hmm . Cool .PhD C: So , {vocalsound} together with the fact that we 've got these {pause} faster Linux boxes andthat it takes less time to do {pause} these , um , we should be able to crank through a lot more experiments .PhD A: Mm - hmm .PhD C: So .Grad E: Hmm .PhDC: So after I did that , then what I wanted to do {comment} was try {pause} increasing the number of mixtures , just to see , um {disfmarker} see how{disfmarker} how that affects performance .PhD A: Yeah .PhD C: So .Professor B: Yeah . In fact , you could do something like {pause} keep exactly the sameprocedure and then add a fifth thing onto itPhD C: Mm - hmm .Professor B: that had more .PhD C: Exactly .Professor B: Yeah .PhD C: Right . Right .Grad E: So at{disfmarker} at the middle o where the arrows are showing , that 's {disfmarker} you 're adding one more mixture per state ,PhD C: Uh - huh . Uh ,Grad E: or{disfmarker} ?PhD C: let 's see , uh . It goes from this {disfmarker} uh , try to go it backwards {disfmarker} this {disfmarker} at this point it 's two mixtures{pause} per state . So this just adds one . Except that , uh , actually for the silence model , it 's six mixtures per state .Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD C: Uh , so itgoes to two .Grad E: OK .PhD C: Um . And I think what happens here is {disfmarker}Professor B: Might be between , uh , shared , uh {disfmarker} sharedvariances or something ,PhD C: Yeah . I think that 's what it is .Professor B: or {disfmarker}PhD C: Uh , yeah . It 's , uh {disfmarker} Shoot . I {disfmarker} I{disfmarker} I can't remember now what happens at that first one . Uh , I have to look it up and see .Grad E: Oh , OK .PhD C: Um , there {disfmarker} becausethey start off with , uh , an initial model which is just this global model , and then they split it to the individuals . And so , {vocalsound} it may be that that 'swhat 's happening here . I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I have to look it up and see . I {disfmarker} I don't exactly remember .Grad E: OK.Professor B: OK .PhD C: So . That 's it .Professor B: Alright . So what else ?PhD A: Um . Yeah . There was a conference call this Tuesday . Um . I don't know yetthe {disfmarker} {vocalsound} what happened {vocalsound} Tuesday , but {vocalsound} the points that they were supposed to discuss is still , {vocalsound} uh, things like {vocalsound} the weights , uh {disfmarker}Professor B: Oh , this is a conference call for , uh , uh , Aurora participant sort of thing .Grad E: For{disfmarker}PhD A: Yeah . Yeah .Professor B: I see .PhD A: Mmm .Professor B: Do you know who was {disfmarker} who was {disfmarker} since we weren't inon it , uh , do you know who was in from OGI ? Was {disfmarker} {vocalsound} was {disfmarker} was Hynek involved or was it SunilPhD A: I have no idea.Professor B: or {disfmarker} ?PhD A: Mmm , I just {disfmarker}Professor B: Oh , you don't know . OK .PhD A: Yeah .Professor B: Alright .PhD A: Um , yeah . Sothe points were the {disfmarker} the weights {disfmarker} how to weight the different error rates {vocalsound} that are obtained from different language and{disfmarker} and conditions . Um , it 's not clear that they will keep the same kind of weighting . Right now it 's a weighting on {disfmarker} on improvement.Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD A: Some people are arguing that it would be better to have weights on uh {disfmarker} well , to {disfmarker} to combine errorrates {pause} before computing improvement . Uh , and the fact is that for {disfmarker} right now for {pause} the English , they have weights {disfmarker}they {disfmarker} they combine error rates , but for the other languages they combine improvement . So it 's not very consistent . Um {disfmarker}Professor B:Mm - hmm .PhD A: Yeah . The , um {disfmarker} Yeah . And so {disfmarker} Well , {vocalsound} this is a point . And right now actually there is a thing also ,{vocalsound} uh , that happens with the current weight is that a very non - significant improvement {pause} on the well - matched case result in {pause} hugedifferences in {disfmarker} {vocalsound} in the final number .Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD A: And so , perhaps they will change the weights to {disfmarker}PhDC: Hmm .PhD A: Yeah .PhD C: How should that be done ? I mean , it {disfmarker} it seems like there 's a simple way {disfmarker}PhD A: Mm - hmm .PhD C: Uh, this seems like an obvious mistake or something .Professor B: Well , I mean , the fact that it 's inconsistent is an obvious mistake .PhD C: Th - they 're{disfmarker}Professor B: But the {disfmarker} but , um , the other thing {disfmarker}PhD A: InProfessor B: I don't know I haven't thought it through , but one{disfmarker} one would think that {vocalsound} each {disfmarker} It {disfmarker} it 's like if you say what 's the {disfmarker} what 's the best way to do anaverage , an arithmetic average or a geometric average ?PhD C: Mm - hmm .Professor B: It depends what you wanna show .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Professor B: