Grad C: Yeah , we had a long discussion about how much w how easy we want to make it for people to bleep things out . So {disfmarker} Morgan wants to makeit hard .PhD D: It {disfmarker} it doesn't {disfmarker}Grad C: Did {disfmarker} did {disfmarker} did it {disfmarker} ? I didn't even check yesterday whether itwas moving .PhD D: It didn't move yesterday either when I started it .Grad C: So .PhD D: So I don't know if it doesn't like both of us {disfmarker}Grad C:Channel three ? Channel three ?PhD D: You know , I discovered something yesterday on these , um , wireless ones .Grad B: Channel two .Grad C: Mm - hmm?PhD D: You can tell if it 's picking up {pause} breath noise and stuff .Grad C: Yeah , it has a little indicator on it {disfmarker} on the AF .PhD D: Mm - hmm . Soif you {disfmarker} yeah , if you breathe under {disfmarker} breathe and then you see AF go off , then you know {pause} it 's p picking up your mouth noise.PhD F: Oh , that 's good . Cuz we have a lot of breath noises .Grad C: Yep . Test .PhD F: In fact , if you listen to just the channels of people not talking , it 's like" @ @ " . It 's very disgustGrad C: What ? Did you see Hannibal recently or something ?PhD F: Sorry . Exactly . It 's very disconcerting . OK . So , um ,Grad C:PhD F: I was gonna try to get out of here , like , in half an hour , um , cuz I really appreciate people coming , and {vocalsound} the main thing that I was gonnaask people to help with today is {pause} to give input on what kinds of database format we should {pause} use in starting to link up things like word transcriptsand annotations of word transcripts , so anything that transcribers or discourse coders or whatever put in the signal , {vocalsound} with time - marks for , like ,words and phone boundaries and all the stuff we get out of the forced alignments and the recognizer . So , we have this , um {disfmarker} I think a starting pointis clearly the {disfmarker} the channelized {pause} output of Dave Gelbart 's program , which Don brought a copy of ,Grad C: Yeah . Yeah , I 'm {disfmarker} I'm familiar with that . I mean , we {disfmarker} I sort of already have developed an XML format for this sort of stuff .PhD F: um , which {disfmarker}PhD D: CanI see it ?Grad C: And so the only question {disfmarker} is it the sort of thing that you want to use or not ? Have you looked at that ? I mean , I had a web pageup .PhD F: Right . So ,Grad C: So {disfmarker}PhD F: I actually mostly need to be able to link up , or {disfmarker} I it 's {disfmarker} it 's a question both ofwhat the representation is and {disfmarker}Grad C: You mean , this {disfmarker} I guess I am gonna be standing up and drawing on the board .PhD F: OK ,yeah . So you should , definitely .Grad C: Um , so {disfmarker} so it definitely had that as a concept . So tha it has a single time - line ,PhD F: Mm - hmm .GradC: and then you can have lots of different sections , each of which have I Ds attached to it , and then you can refer from other sections to those I Ds , if you wantto . So that , um {disfmarker} so that you start with {disfmarker} with a time - line tag . " Time - line " . And then you have a bunch of times . I don't e I don'tremember exactly what my notation was ,PhD A: Oh , I remember seeing an example of this .Grad C: but it {disfmarker}PhD F: Right , right .PhD A: Yeah .GradC: Yeah , " T equals one point three two " , uh {disfmarker} And then I {disfmarker} I also had optional things like accuracy , and then " ID equals T one , uh ,one seven " . And then , {nonvocalsound} I also wanted to {disfmarker} to be i to be able to not specify specifically what the time was and just have a stamp.PhD F: Right .Grad C: Yeah , so these are arbitrary , assigned by a program , not {disfmarker} not by a user . So you have a whole bunch of those . And thensomewhere la further down you might have something like an utterance tag which has " start equals T - seventeen , end equals T - eighteen " . So what that 'ssaying is , we know it starts at this particular time . We don't know when it ends .PhD F: OK .Grad C: Right ? But it ends at this T - eighteen , which may besomewhere else . We say there 's another utterance . We don't know what the t time actually is but we know that it 's the same time as this end time .PhD A:Mmm .Grad C: You know , thirty - eight , whatever you want .PhD A: So you 're essentially defining a lattice .Grad C: OK . Yes , exactly .PhD A: Yeah .Grad C:And then , uh {disfmarker} and then these also have I Ds . Right ? So you could {disfmarker} you could have some sort of other {disfmarker} other tag later inthe file that would be something like , um , oh , I don't know , {comment} uh , {nonvocalsound} " noise - type equals {nonvocalsound} door - slam " . You know? And then , uh , {nonvocalsound} you could either say " time equals a particular time - mark " or you could do other sorts of references . So {disfmarker} or{disfmarker} or you might have a prosody {disfmarker} " Prosody " right ? D ? T ? D ? T ? T ?PhD F: It 's an O instead of an I , but the D is good .Grad C: Youlike the D ? That 's a good D .PhD F: Yeah .Grad C: Um , you know , so you could have some sort of type here , and then you could have , um {disfmarker} theutterance that it 's referring to could be U - seventeen or something like that .PhD F: OK . So , I mean , that seems {disfmarker} that seems g great for all of theencoding of things with time and ,Grad C: Oh , well .PhD F: um {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I guess my question is more , uh , what d what do you do with , say, a forced alignment ?PhD A: How - howPhD F: I mean you 've got all these phone labels , and what do you do if you {disfmarker} just conceptually , if you get ,um , transcriptions where the words are staying but the time boundaries are changing , cuz you 've got a new recognition output , or s sort of {disfmarker} what's the , um , sequence of going from the waveforms that stay the same , the transcripts that may or may not change , and then the utterance which {disfmarker}where the time boundaries that may or may not change {disfmarker} ?PhD A: Oh , that 's {disfmarker} That 's actually very nicely handled here because youcould {disfmarker} you could {disfmarker} all you 'd have to change is the , {vocalsound} um , time - stamps in the time - line without {disfmarker} without ,uh , changing the I Ds .PhD F: Um . And you 'd be able to propagate all of the {disfmarker} the information ?Grad C: Right . That 's , the who that 's why you dothat extra level of indirection . So that you can just change the time - line .PhD A: Except the time - line is gonna be huge . If you say {disfmarker}Grad C: Yes.PhD F: Yeah ,PhD A: suppose you have a phone - level alignment .PhD F: yeah , especially at the phone - level .PhD A: You 'd have {disfmarker} you 'd have{disfmarker}PhD F: The {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we have phone - level backtraces .Grad C: Yeah , this {disfmarker} I don't think I would do this for phone- level . I think for phone - level you want to use some sort of binary representationPhD F: Um {disfmarker}Grad C: because it 'll be too dense otherwise .PhD F:OK . So , if you were doing that and you had this sort of companion , uh , thing that gets called up for phone - level , uh , what would that look like ?PhD A:WhyGrad C: I would use just an existing {disfmarker} an existing way of doing it .PhD F: How would you {disfmarker} ?PhD A: Mmm . But {disfmarker} but whynot use it for phone - level ?PhD F: H hPhD A: It 's just a matter of {disfmarker} it 's just a matter of it being bigger . But if you have {disfmarker} you know ,barring memory limitations , or uh {disfmarker} I w I mean this is still the mGrad C: It 's parsing limitations . I don't want to have this text file that you have toread in the whole thing to do something very simple for .PhD A: Oh , no . You would use it only {pause} for {pause} purposes where you actually want the phone- level information , I 'd imagine .PhD F: So you could have some file that configures how much information you want in your {disfmarker} in your XML orsomething .Grad C: Right . I mean , you 'd {disfmarker} yPhD F: Um ,PhD A: You {disfmarker}Grad C: I {disfmarker} I am imagining you 'd have multipleversions of this depending on the information that you want .PhD F: cuz th it does get very bush with {disfmarker} Right .Grad C: Um , I 'm just {disfmarker}what I 'm wondering is whether {disfmarker} I think for word - level , this would be OK .PhD F: Yeah .Grad C: For word - level , it 's alright .PhD F: Yeah .Definitely .PhD A: Mm - hmm .Grad C: For lower than word - level , you 're talking about so much data that I just {disfmarker} I don't know . I don't know if that{disfmarker}PhD F: I mean , we actually have {disfmarker} So , one thing that Don is doing , is we 're {disfmarker} we 're running {disfmarker} For every frame, you get a pitch value ,PhD D: Lattices are big , too .PhD F: and not only one pitch value but different kinds of pitch valuesGrad C: Yeah , I mean , for somethinglike that I would use P - filePhD F: depending on {disfmarker}Grad C: or {disfmarker} or any frame - level stuff I would use P - file .PhD F: Meaning {disfmarker}?Grad C: Uh , that 's a {disfmarker} well , or something like it . It 's ICS uh , ICSI has a format for frame - level representation of features . Um .PhD F: OK . Thatyou could call {disfmarker} that you would tie into this representation with like an ID .Grad C: Right . Right . Or {disfmarker} or there 's a {disfmarker} there 's aparticular way in XML to refer to external resources .PhD F: And {disfmarker} OK .Grad C: So you would say " refer to this external file " . Um , so that externalfile wouldn't be in {disfmarker}PhD F: So that might {disfmarker} that might work .PhD D: But what {disfmarker} what 's the advantage of doing that versusjust putting it into this format ?Grad C: More compact , which I think is {disfmarker} is better .PhD D: Uh - huh .Grad C: I mean , if you did it at this{disfmarker}PhD F: I mean these are long meetings and with {disfmarker} for every frame ,Grad C: You don't want to do it with that {disfmarker} Anything atframe - level you had better encode binaryPhD F: um {disfmarker}Grad C: or it 's gonna be really painful .PhD A: Or you just compre I mean , I like text formats. Um , b you can always , uh , G - zip them , and , um , you know , c decompress them on the fly if y if space is really a concern .PhD D: Yeah , I was thi I wasthinking the advantage is that we can share this with other people .Grad C: Well , but if you 're talking about one per frame , you 're talking about gigabyte - sizefiles . You 're gonna actually run out of space in your filesystem for one file .PhD F: These are big files . These are really {disfmarker} I mean {disfmarker}GradC: Right ? Because you have a two - gigabyte limit on most O Ss .PhD A: Right , OK . I would say {disfmarker} OK , so frame - level is probably not a good idea .But for phone - level stuff it 's perfectly {disfmarker}PhD F: And th it 's {disfmarker}PhD A: Like phones , or syllables , or anything like that .PhD F: Phones areevery five frames though , so . Or something like that .PhD A: But {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} but most of the frames are actually not speech . So , you know, people don't {disfmarker} v Look at it , words times the average {disfmarker} The average number of phones in an English word is , I don't know , {comment}five maybe ?PhD F: Yeah , but we actually {disfmarker}PhD A: So , look at it , t number of words times five . That 's not {disfmarker} that not {disfmarker}PhD


Project Manager: Excellent . So um I sent you the agenda , it was on the {disfmarker} in the project documents . I don't know if you got a chance to just have alook at it . Anyway , it's {disfmarker} the meeting's gonna follow more or less the same structure as last time , so we'll go round each of you in turn and you cangive your presentations on what you've been up to . Um and at the end of that we need to discuss what you've come up with , so that we can make a decision onthe key remote control concepts , so that's {disfmarker} we need to know about the components' properties , materials , the user interface and any trends thatthe Marketing Expert has been watching .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Right .Project Manager: Okay . Um , do you wanna start again ?Industrial Designer:{vocalsound} Okay .Project Manager: Let me {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Right s {vocalsound}Project Manager: we've got forty minutes .IndustrialDesigner: so I haven't made a PowerPoint presentation ,Project Manager: {vocalsound} You haven't made a PowerPoint , okay .Industrial Designer: yeah , I Ithought I'll use the whiteboard instead .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Um mm , {vocalsound}Project Manager: Let's hope the pen holds out .{vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: okay , so basically I'll start off by {disfmarker} uh {vocalsound} I thought I'll use the whiteboardbecause we have so many different options and what we can do is that we can start um uh rubbing off the options that we do not require and putting in theoptions that uh are m or highlighting or underlining them or something like that .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Okay , so uh I'll start again witha brief introduction to {disfmarker} connect that anyway {disfmarker} brief introduction to the insides of a remote controlProject Manager: Yeah .IndustrialDesigner: and uh then we can probably uh discuss the various components . Yeah . Okay , so w what you see here is {disfmarker} so {vocalsound} this is theoutside of the remote , right ? If you open it , you have a circuit board here , right ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: and this is the chip that I wastalking about last time . This basically sends information to a tr uh transistor here , which then uh sends the information to an L_E_D_ device here . If you flip theprinted circuit board , and this is th the most important point here ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: uh {vocalsound} everything else is kind of{disfmarker} Okay , so if you flip the circuit board , this is what it looks like . So you see for example a particular button attaches to a particular place on theP_C_B_ and uhProject Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: on pressing this button I {disfmarker} a circuit completes , the information goes to the chip , which issomewhere here and the chip that tra then translates the code into an infra infrared radiation , which goes goes out through there . {vocalsound} So uh theimportant point that I read over the website was uh that the configurations of these printed circuit circuit boards uh are quite cheap to make , you can ge getthem printed as you want to ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: so w we can have a configuration um irrespective of the cost , the way we want tohave . Right ? So that's the important point here ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: so these are the different options that we have . Okay . So thebatteries , I'll start with the battery , right ?Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: So they can be simple which is like uh the normal batteries in uh our{disfmarker} uh the cells , yeah ?Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Uh thes these are the kind {disfmarker} different kind of batteries that thecompany makes , right ? So . And dynamos . Um {vocalsound}Marketing: Does that mean like a wind-up one ?Industrial Designer: yeah , yeah .Marketing:{vocalsound} A wind-up remote .Industrial Designer: So uh I don't know if {disfmarker} even if you want to consider this ,User Interface: {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: but these are the different things that the company makes , so th they'll they'll {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: since uhthey'll come internally from the company , they'll be eas uh cheaper , uh all these options .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: So {vocalsound} thethird one is uh the kinetic energy ones .Marketing: You could make the hand dynamo into an exercise bike , and then people could exercise whilst watching T_V_.Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: And charging their remote ,Marketing: Yeah , and stop worrying about the whole R_S_I_ from the remote thing ,'cause that's just {disfmarker}Project Manager: yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Yeah , it's a good option.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} So what was what was this k kaIndustrial Designer: The the kinetic energy one is uh that e uh uhthey are usually modern watches , since our hand keeps moving , it keeps the watch ticking .User Interface: Okay .Project Manager: Uh yeah .IndustrialDesigner: But I dunno i if it is a good idea for a remote control , because it'll just lie there for a long while sometimes .Project Manager: Mm-hmm . For a remote ,'cause you {disfmarker} Yeah .Industrial Designer: But as soon as you pick it up it moves and then again it uh re recharges or something .User Interface:Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: And the fourth option is the solar cells , which are also {vocalsound} made by the company .Marketing:Yay .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Environment friendly . Okay {vocalsound} um so I'll list things and then we can come back and discusswhat what we think from uh everybody's perspective .Project Manager: Yeah {vocalsound} .Industrial Designer: There are different cases that can be provided .They can be {disfmarker} basically the shape of the cases , they can be flat , they can be curved with uh one-sided curved and one side flat ,Project Manager:Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: and they can be curved with {disfmarker} on both the sides .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}These are the three options , right ? Um {vocalsound} {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} Um you mean this would be like the the overall shape of theremote control , yeah ,Industrial Designer: Yeah , would it be flat on both the sides , would be curved from one side , or whatever {disfmarker}{vocalsound}User Interface: mm-hmm . Yeah , mm-hmm , mm-hmm .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Mm-hmm mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: uhthere were different kind of supplements available , um like it can be in plastic , rubber , wood , or titanium , right ?Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Okay .IndustrialDesigner: Wo wo wood .Marketing: Did you say wool ?Project Manager: Wood , wood .Marketing: Wood . Oh right .User Interface: {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: Yeah . {vocalsound} Not wool . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} .Project Manager: {vocalsound} A fluffy remote . {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah, you'll understand why when we get to my presenta {vocalsound} .Industrial Designer: Oh really ? {vocalsound} Okay . Um the {disfmarker}Project Manager:Huh .Industrial Designer: so uh we can use even um {vocalsound} a certain titanium is also used uh in the company to make uh {vocalsound} uh some spacedesign equipment , so it's kind of um uh it'll be probably nicer to use , because it relates to the overall image of the company , but uh it cannot be used on adouble curved surface . If we choose this , we cannot use titanium . For for these two we can use titanium , wood , rubber , or plastic .Project Manager: Mm.Industrial Designer: Yeah ?Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Uh okay , the interface options now . So {vocalsound} we can have push-buttons ,like most remotes do and our company is an expert in making push-buttons .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:Ooh . Uh we can have scroll wheels like the ones on um uh mouse pointers uh uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Sony .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: SonyEricsson mobile phones has it .Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah , something like that .Marketing: Mm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} So , and they have{disfmarker} they can even have an an integrated uh push-button inside the scrolling thing .Project Manager: Okay .Industrial Designer: The scroll plus push . Sothis is something that has been recently developed by the company , um {vocalsound} in the last decade , so not too recent . And L_C_D_s , we can haveL_C_D_s . So these two are recent and and this is q quite old .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} The various electronic options areum uh {vocalsound} so th this concerns firs first of all the the chips I I showed you at uh {disfmarker} so there's there's a chip behind this one , right ? TheP_C_B_ is uh inexpensive , so we can put put in uh whatever we want , but the various integrated circuit options are , we have either a simple oneProjectManager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: or a regular or advanced . And uh the price goes up as we go down , obviously .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .IndustrialDesigner: Um {vocalsound} okay , so the good thing about uh wh wh why why we would want to use advanced u why we might want to use advanced is thatL_C_D_s can only come with the advanced chip .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Um the {disfmarker} we need regular or advanced for uh scrollwheels . Right ? Um {vocalsound} and the chip basically includes the infra infrared sender .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Yeah . Uh besidesthis in electr under electronics uh also the company has started making a sample sender , which is {vocalsound} {disfmarker} did not explained what i what itwas , but I'm guessing that uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker} so they have a sample sender and a sample speaker . So I'm guessing that uh the sample speaker isprobably something like um uh you know , as soon as you press a button , it it mm uh give gives you feedback , one five or whatever . Yeah , on .ProjectManager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Um {vocalsound} and uh I dunno whether sample sender sender has to do something with voice recognition or not , butanyway .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: So , these are the different options that we have . Okay , so {vocalsound} th that's that's basically{disfmarker} now now uh I think that uh we can integrate um {vocalsound} uh you know , uh the user interface uh and uh the marketing things in that , keep uhtaking out things from this and uh underlining things that are important , yeah .Project Manager: Yeah .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Excellent . Do you wanna stay somewhere near the board , so that if we need to {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay .Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah , sure . Sure. Yeah .Project Manager: you can sit down , but just {disfmarker} {vocalsound} we might need you to leap up .User Interface: {vocalsound} Okay .ProjectManager: What are you , PowerPoint , or {disfmarker}User Interface: Um I have some PowerPoint , yeah .Industrial Designer: Right .Project Manager: Okay


User Interface: .. .Project Manager: Okay . So , this is uh first meeting of this design project . Um and I um like to show you the agenda for the meeting , I don'tknow if it was sent round to all of you .User Interface: Mm , yeah .Project Manager: Maybe not . Anyway ,User Interface: I didn't receive it yet {vocalsound}.Project Manager: this is the the plan for today's meeting is um firstly just to introduce the project briefly , um although I'm sure you've actually got some of theinformation already . Then the main purpose is to {disfmarker} so that we get to know each other a little bit more .Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .ProjectManager: Um then we want to practice using some of the tools that we'll be using during the the course of the design project and the meetings , um specificallythe whiteboard over there . Um then we need to go through the specifics of our project plan um and discuss {disfmarker} come up with some preliminary ideasabout it . And then that's it . So we've got twenty five minutes to do that , that's until eleven twenty five .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {gap} so shProjectManager: S so any any questions ?Industrial Designer: {gap} {vocalsound} {gap} .Project Manager: Is i {gap} not at this point .User Interface: Not at this point.Project Manager: So this is our project . What we're aiming to do is to create a new remote control for a television . Um we want it to be something original ,something trendy and also something user friendly , so it has to be quite intuitive that people are able to use this product . The method that we're going to use tocomplete the project , that has three components as such . There's the functional design of the the remote control . We're going {disfmarker} the way we'll dothat I think is to to work individually initially and then come together for meetings to to work on that . Um similarly with the conceptual design , we'll start off byworking individually with our own expertise on our own laptops and then we'll bring what we've done together . Um and then the detailed design will come afterthat . We'll pull it all together .Industrial Designer: I'm a bit confused about uh what's the difference between the functional design and conceptual design ? Uh i isit just uh more detail , uh as I understand it ?Project Manager: I think it {disfmarker} th w we're talking the the functional design is more your um area of thingswhere you'll be {disfmarker} we want to look at what functions we need in the remote controlIndustrial Designer: Right .Project Manager: and what what specificthings it it has to doIndustrial Designer: {gap}Project Manager: but the conceptual design is um perhaps bigger than that and includes the {disfmarker} howpeople are going to use it and and that kind of thing .Industrial Designer: How how it will be done . So whe where do we identify the components of our uhproduct ? Uh I think it's it's in the conceptual design phase that we identify the {disfmarker} it's in the conceptual design phase that we identify the componentsof our product ?Project Manager: Um I think we'll we'll start that initially with the functional design already but thenIndustrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager:{disfmarker} yeah . Okay , so that's just a brief overview of the p the the project itself . Um what I'd like us to do now is simultaneously introduce ourselves andstart using some of the tools that we're using for {vocalsound} for the project , specifically the whiteboard .Industrial Designer: Hmm .Project Manager: So eachperson in turn , I'd like us to go up to the whiteboard , the pen's just underneath it there and draw your favourite animal and then tell everyone what the f yourfavourite characteristics of that animal are and while you're doing that tell us your name , what your role is and perhaps how your animal relates to the role thatyou're taking in this project . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Why are you looking at me ?User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound}Project Manager: Would you like to go first ? {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Do I have a choice ? {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: Okay . Ooh ooh , things falling everywhere .Project Manager: Oh , yeah ,Marketing: Right , okay .Project Manager: p put them in pockets.Marketing: Cool . Okay .Project Manager: You don't have to hurry , we've got plenty of time .Marketing: So , my name's Cat and I'm really not very good at thiswhole drawing malarkeyIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: so um {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing:Okay .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: It's got no eyes .Marketing: Oh , good point . Ah , the eyes always ruin it .Right . Okay , what do {gap} it's eyes like ? Okay , cool . Um this is a rabbit . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Ithought it might be a cat . {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah well origi uh at first I thought it was going to be cat . {vocalsound}IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah , I don't think it's furry enough , so we'll make it a fluffy rabbit .User Interface: Yeah nowI now I understand now , yeah . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah I can see by the ears .User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Okay , right , it's a fluffy rabbit , blue .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Rabbits don't come in blue but you know .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Marketing: Um okay and I like it because it's small {vocalsound} and it's fluffy .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {gap}ProjectManager: Mm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: And one day you'll be able to getical genetically modify them and theywill come in pink .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Ah . {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay ?IndustrialDesigner: Mm .Project Manager: Excellent , and what's your what's your role within the team ?Marketing: I am the um {disfmarker} I need my notebook , mmooh {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: top banana . Thank you . Okay , cool , I am the Marketing Expert {vocalsound} um so like I'mgonna be doing the {disfmarker} apparently according to the little guy in the computer that knows everything {disfmarker} the user g requirements specificationof the functional design , um trend watching in the conceptual design and product evad-valuation in the detailed design {vocalsound}Project Manager:{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm . Okay .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: um so yeah .Industrial Designer: 'Kay .Project Manager: And moreabout yourself , you're from ?Marketing: Um I'm from Leicester ,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: um second year . Um what else do you want to know?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: I like sports {vocalsound} um yeah , aerobics , kickboxing , spinningProject Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: um{vocalsound} and uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: But not with rabbits . {vocalsound}Marketing: not with rabbits , no no .Industrial Designer: Mm .Marketing:And vets , I like vets as well .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} And yeah um and I like cocktails , especially pink ones .IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound} Cool .Marketing: Okay ? Cool . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Excellent , to match the rabbit . {vocalsound}User Interface:{vocalsound} {vocalsound} Okay . Um so my name is Maarika . Where's the pen ? Okay .Project Manager: There's a {disfmarker} an {disfmarker} if you havenot enough room there's an eraser there and you can rub it off .User Interface: Yeah , well , or I can make it smaller . {vocalsound} Uh so um um I'm theInterface Designer in this project and my favourite animal , I m I mean I'm not so sure because I'm not so so very um {vocalsound} familiar with all kinds ofanimals , but I do like dogs .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Oh , sorry , maybe I should have {disfmarker} shouldn't have said it beforehandbutIndustrial Designer: Mm .User Interface: mm {vocalsound} hmm .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound}User Interface: Um well , there are different kinds of dogs , but okay um .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}{vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} That's not bad at all .Project Manager: Ah it looks like a dog .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yep .Marketing:Is a bit more impressive than my rabbit .User Interface: Okay .Marketing: I think it needs four legs if it's gonna walk though .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah , maybe it has some colourful patches , yeah .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} {gap} the other legsare on the other side .User Interface: Um yeah and I do like dogs because they are good friends to people and they are loyal . Mm , well that's compared to someother animals like cats . Um they're really much more fun because they are not so independent .Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Um yeah maybemaybe the fact that they protect their home as well , yeah . Um what it has to do with with my role in the project is hard to say .Project Manager:{vocalsound}User Interface: Uh I hope to be loyal to the projectIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: and not to n not to umlet people doing similar projects know the details of our project or something , {vocalsound} yeah .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: And wherewhere are you from ?User Interface: I'm from EstoniaProject Manager: Estonia .User Interface: uh , yep . Um so is there anything else you'd like to know ? Oh ,right , my roles ,Industrial Designer: {gap} .User Interface: um so um in the different um {vocalsound} stages of the design , so at first I will be responsible forum for {vocalsound} yeah , designing the technical functions of the um {vocalsound} um of the remote control uh then in the in the conceptual design stage Ineed to um come up with uh interface concept and then in the last um stage I will be responsible for the int infa for the user interface design .Industrial Designer:{gap} .User Interface: {vocalsound} Okay , that's it . {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Thank you . Okay {vocalsound} um {vocalsound} I'll do some{disfmarker} I'll rub the featuresProject Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and let the drawing stay . {vocalsound} 'Kay um my name is Gaurav . Um{vocalsound} my favourite animal {disfmarker} one of my favourite animals is a cow . I've got no idea how to draw a cow .Marketing: {vocalsound}ProjectManager: {vocalsound} Good luck .User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh this is going to be {disfmarker}Marketing: They're not justlike a big round body and then some really skinny legsIndustrial Designer: Yeah , that'll do .Marketing: and then just some horns .Industrial Designer: Okay , solet let me draw the body first .Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: Big , round body , really skinny legs {vocalsound}Marketing:{vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and they've got a long tailMarketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and a long face .


PhD F: OK .Professor B: Uh . Somebody else should run this . I 'm sick of being the one to sort of go through and say , " Well , what do you think about this ? "You wanna {disfmarker} ?PhD D: Yeah .PhD F: Should we take turns ? You want me to run it today ?Professor B: Yeah . Why don't you run it today ? OK .PhD F:OK . OK . Um . Let 's see , maybe we should just get a list of items {disfmarker} things that we should talk about . Um , I guess there 's the usual {pause}updates , everybody going around and saying , uh , you know , what they 're working on , the things that happened the last week . But aside from that is thereanything in particular that anybody wants to bring upPhD D: Mmm .PhD F: for today ? No ? OK . So why don't we just around and people can give updates .PhDE: Oh .PhD F: Uh , do you want to start , Stephane ?PhD C: Alright . Um . Well , the first thing maybe is that the p Eurospeech paper is , uh , accepted . Um .Yeah .PhD F: This is {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what do you , uh {disfmarker} what 's in the paper there ?PhD C: So it 's the paper that describe basicallythe , um , system that were proposed for the {pause} Aurora .PhD F: The one that we s we submitted the last round ?PhD C: Right , yeah .PhD D: Yeah .PhD F:Uh - huh .PhD C: Um {disfmarker} Yeah . So and the , fff {comment} comments seems {disfmarker} from the reviewer are good . So .PhD F: Hmm .PhD C:Mmm {disfmarker} Yeah .PhD F: Where {disfmarker} where 's it gonna be this year ?PhD C: It 's , uh , Aalborg in Denmark . And it 's ,PhD F: Oh , OK .PhD C:yeah , September .PhD F: Mmm .PhD C: Mmm {disfmarker} Yeah . Then , uh , whhh well , I 've been working on {disfmarker} on t mainly on on - linenormalization this week . Uh , I 've been trying different {disfmarker} slightly {disfmarker} slightly different approaches . Um , the first thing is trying to play alittle bit again with the , um , time constant . Uh , second thing is , uh , the training of , uh , on - line normalization with two different means , one mean for thesilence and one for the speech . Um , and so I have two recursions which are controlled by the , um , probability of the voice activity detector . Mmm . Thisactually don't s doesn't seem to help , although it doesn't hurt . So . But {disfmarker} well , both {pause} on - line normalization approach seems equivalent .Well , they {disfmarker}PhD F: Are the means pretty different {pause} for the two ?PhD C: Yeah . They can be very different . Yeah . Mm - hmm .PhD F: Hmm.Professor B: So do you maybe make errors in different places ? Different kinds of errors ?PhD C: I didn't look , uh , more closely . Um . It might be , yeah . Mm -hmm . Um . Well , eh , there is one thing that we can observe , is that the mean are more different for {disfmarker} for C - zero and C - one than for the othercoefficients . And {disfmarker} Yeah . And {disfmarker} Yeah , it {disfmarker} the C - one is {disfmarker} There are strange {disfmarker} strange thinghappening with C - one , is that when you have different kind of noises , the mean for the {disfmarker} the silence portion is {disfmarker} can be different . And{disfmarker}PhD F: Hmm .PhD C: So when you look at the trajectory of C - one , it 's {disfmarker} has a strange shape and I was expecting th the s that thesetwo mean helps , especially because of the {disfmarker} the strange C - ze C - one shape , uh , which can {disfmarker} like , yo you can have , um , a trajectoryfor the speech and then when you are in the silence it goes somewhere , but if the noise is different it goes somewhere else .PhD F: Oh .PhD C: So which wouldmean that if we estimate the mean based on all the signal , even though we have frame dropping , but we don't frame ev uh , drop everything , but {disfmarker}uh , this can {disfmarker} hurts the estimation of the mean for speech , and {disfmarker} Mmm . {comment} But I still have to investigate further , I think . Um, a third thing is , um , {vocalsound} that instead of t having a fixed time constant , I try to have a time constant that 's smaller at the beginning of theutterances to adapt more quickly to the r something that 's closer to the right mean . T t um {disfmarker} Yeah . And then this time constant increases and Ihave a threshold that {disfmarker}Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD C: well , if it 's higher than a certain threshold , I keep it to this threshold to still , uh , adapt ,um , the mean when {disfmarker} {vocalsound} if the utterance is , uh , long enough to {disfmarker} to continue to adapt after , like , one secondProfessor B:Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .PhD C: or {disfmarker} Mmm . Uh , well , this doesn't help neither , but this doesn't hurt . So , well . It seems pretty {disfmarker}PhDF: Wasn't there some experiment you were gonna try where you did something differently for each , um , {vocalsound} uh {disfmarker} I don't know whether itwas each mel band or each , uh , um , FFT bin or someth There was something you were gonna {disfmarker} uh , {comment} some parameter you were gonnavary depending on the frequency . I don't know if that was {disfmarker}PhD C: I guess it was {disfmarker} I don't know . No . u Maybe it 's this {disfmarker}this idea of having different {pause} on - line normalization , um , tunings for the different MFCC 's .PhD F: For each , uh {disfmarker}Professor B: Mm - hmm.PhD C: But {disfmarker} Mm - hmm .PhD F: Yeah . I {disfmarker} I thought , Morgan , you brought it up a couple meetings ago . And then it was somethingabout , uh , some and then somebody said " yeah , it does seem like , you know , C - zero is the one that 's , you know , the major one " or , uh , s I can'tremember exactly what it was now .PhD C: Mmm . Yeah . There {disfmarker} uh , actually , yeah . S um , it 's very important to normalize C - zero and {pause}much less to normalize the other coefficients . And , um , actu uh , well , at least with the current on - line normalization scheme . And we {disfmarker} I think ,we {vocalsound} kind of know that normalizing C - one doesn't help with the current scheme . And {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} Yeah . In my idea , I{disfmarker} I was thinking that the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the reason is maybe because of these funny things that happen between speech and silencewhich have different means . Um {disfmarker} Yeah . But maybe it 's not so {disfmarker} {vocalsound} so easy to {disfmarker}Professor B: Um , I I reallywould like to suggest looking , um , a little bit at the kinds of errors . I know you can get lost in that and go forever and not see too much , but {disfmarker}{vocalsound} sometimes ,PhD C: Mm - hmm .Professor B: but {disfmarker} but , um , just seeing that each of these things didn't make things better may not beenough . It may be that they 're making them better in some ways and worse in others ,PhD C: Yeah . Mm - hmm .Professor B: or increasing insertions anddecreasing deletions , or {disfmarker} or , um , um , you know , helping with noisy case but hurting in quiet case . And if you saw that then maybe you{disfmarker} it would {disfmarker} {vocalsound} something would occur to you of how to deal with that .PhD C: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .PhD D: Hmm .PhD C:Alright . Mmm . Yeah . W um , So that 's it , I think , for the on - line normalization . Um {disfmarker} Yeah . I 've been playing a little bit with some kind ofthresholding , and , mmm , as a first experiment , I think I Yeah . Well , what I did is t is to take , um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} to measure the average{disfmarker} no , the maximum energy of s each utterance and then put a threshold {disfmarker} Well , this for each mel band . Then put a threshold that 'sfifteen DB below {disfmarker} well , uh , a couple of DB below this maximum ,Professor B: Mm - hmm . Mmm .PhD C: and {disfmarker} Actually it was not athreshold , it was just adding noise .Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD C: So I was adding a white noise energy , uh , that 's fifteen DB below the maximum energy ofthe utterance . And {disfmarker} Yeah . When we look at {disfmarker} at the , um , MFCC that result from this , they are {pause} a lot more smoother . Um ,when we compare , like , a channel zero and channel one utterance {disfmarker} um , so a clean and , uh , the same noisy utterance {disfmarker} well , there isalmost no difference between the cepstral coefficients of the two .PhD F: Hmm .PhD C: Um . And {disfmarker} Yeah . And the result that we have in term ofspeech recognition , actually it 's not {disfmarker} it 's not worse , it 's not better neither , but it 's , um , kind of surprising that it 's not worsePhD F: Hmm .PhDC: because basically you add noise that 's fifteen DB {disfmarker} just fifteen DB below {pause} the maximum energy .Grad A: Sorry .PhD C: And at least{disfmarker}PhD F: So why does that m {pause} smooth things out ? I don't {disfmarker} I don't understand that .Professor B: Well , there 's less difference .Right ?PhD C: It 's {disfmarker} I think , it 's whitening {disfmarker} This {disfmarker} the portion that are more silent ,Professor B: Cuz it 's {disfmarker}PhDC: as you add a white noise that are {disfmarker} has a very high energy , it whitens everythingPhD F: Huh . Oh , OK .PhD C: and {disfmarker} and the high -energy portion of the speech don't get much affected anyway by the other noise . And as the noise you add is the same is {disfmarker} {pause} the shape , it 'salso the same .PhD F: Hmm .Professor B: Yeah .PhD C: So they have {disfmarker} the trajectory are very , very similar . And {disfmarker} and{disfmarker}Professor B: So , I mean , again , if you trained in one kind of noise and tested in the same kind of noise , you 'd {disfmarker} you know , givenenough training data you don't do b do badly . The reason that we d that we have the problems we have is because {pause} it 's different in training and test .Even if {vocalsound} the general kind is the same , the exact instances are different . And {disfmarker} andPhD F: Mm - hmm .Professor B: so when you whitenit , then it 's like you {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the only noise {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to first order , the only th noise that you have is white noise andyou 've added the same thing to training and test .PhD F: Mm - hmm .Professor B: So it 's ,PhD F: Hmm .Professor B: uh {disfmarker}PhD F: So would that{pause} be similar to , like , doing the smoothing , then , over time or {disfmarker} ?PhD C: Mm - hmm .Professor B: Well , it 's a kind of smoothing ,PhD C: Ithink it 's {disfmarker} I think it 's different .Professor B: but {disfmarker}PhD C: It 's {disfmarker} it 's something that {disfmarker} yeah , that affects more orless the silence portions because {disfmarker}PhD F: Mm - hmm .PhD C: Well , anyway , the sp the portion of speech that ha have high energy are not ch a lotaffected by the noises in the Aurora database .Professor B: Mm - hmm .PhD C: If {disfmarker} if you compare th the two shut channels of SpeechDat - Car duringspeech portion , it 's n n n the MFCC are not very different . They are very different when energy 's lower , like during fricatives or during speech pauses . And,Professor B: Yeah , but you 're still getting more recognition errors ,PhD C: uh {disfmarker}Professor B: which means {vocalsound} that the differences , eventhough they look like they 're not so big , {vocalsound} are {disfmarker} are hurting your recognition .PhD C: YeProfessor B: Right ?PhD C: Yeah . So it distort


Project Manager: All hooked up . {vocalsound} Okay , so now we are here at the functional design meeting . Um {vocalsound} hopefully this meeting I'll be doinga little bit less talking than I did last time 'cause this is when you get to show us what you've been doing individually . The agenda for the meeting , I put it in thesh shared documents folder . I don't know if that meant that you could see it or not .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Did anyone ?IndustrialDesigner: Mm .User Interface: No .Project Manager: No . Oh well . Um I'll try and do that for the next meeting as well so if you check in there , there's a sharedproject documents folder . Um and it should be in there .User Interface: Mm . Um um wi on on a what ? Oh project project documents , yeah , yeah , yeah , okay.Project Manager: Project documents , yeah . So I'll put it in there .User Interface: Oh okay , yeah .Project Manager: Is it best if I send you an email maybe , tolet you know it's there ?User Interface: Yes , I think so .Project Manager: Yep . I'll do that next time . Um {vocalsound} I'll act as secretary for this meeting andjust take minutes as we go through , and then I'll send them to you after the meeting . The main the main focus of this meeting is your presentations that you'vebeen preparing during the time , so we'll go through each of you one by one . Um then we need to briefly discuss the new project requirements that were sent tous . I just sentUser Interface: Yeah , the last minute , yeah ,Project Manager: at the last minute , I'm sorry about that ,User Interface: yeah .Project Manager:but we can see how that affects what you were you were doing .User Interface: Yeah .Project Manager: Um and then we need to , by the end of the meetingcome to some kind of decision on who our target group's going to be and what the functions of the remote control {disfmarker} that's the the main goal is tocome up with those two things , target group and functions of the remote control . And we've got forty minutes to do that in . So I would say{disfmarker}Industrial Designer: You said uh targ target groups ,Project Manager: yeah ?Industrial Designer: what does that mean ?Project Manager: As uh whoit is that we're going to be trying to sell this thing to ,User Interface: {vocalsound} Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Uh okay , 'kay .Project Manager: yeah.Industrial Designer: So are {disfmarker}Project Manager: So we need to {disfmarker} yeah , we need to have a fairly defined group that that we want to focusonIndustrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: and then look at the functions um of the dem remote control itself . So with that I think it's best if I hand over toyou . Does anyone have a preference for going first ?Industrial Designer: Alright . {vocalsound} I can go first ,Project Manager: You wanna go first ?IndustrialDesigner: yeah .User Interface: Okay . Hmm .Project Manager: Okay , so we need to unplug my laptop and plug in yours .Industrial Designer:{vocalsound}Project Manager: I assume we just pull it out ?User Interface: Mm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Right . Um {vocalsound} so ffrom the {disfmarker}Project Manager: Just before you start , to make it easier , would you three mind emailing me your presentations ? Once we {disfmarker}you don't have to do it now but when {disfmarker} once you go back ,User Interface: Okay , yeah , afterwards , yeah , okay .Industrial Designer: Right sure.Project Manager: just so that I don't have to scribble everything down .Industrial Designer: Uh okay . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} So n uh with uh with regard tothe {vocalsound} uh working design of this uh uh remote control uh I've identified um {vocalsound} a few basic uh components of the remote and uh{vocalsound} se uh from the design , functional design perspective um w I c we can now uh know wha what exactly the components are and how how they worktogether with each other . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} So {vocalsound} {vocalsound} this is the method that uh I'll mostly be following in my um {vocalsound}in my uh role . Um the identification of the components , uh and uh since since I'm dealing only with the technical aspects , I would need feedback from themarketing person uh and {vocalsound} uh from the user interface person . Uh we'll then integrate this into the product design at a technical levelProjectManager: Hmm .Industrial Designer: and uh basically update and come up with a new design , so it's a cyclical process . {vocalsound} Okay , so {vocalsound}these were the basic findings from today . The last three bullets have been integrated from uh the last minute uh email . Uh I just quickly jotted them down . Um{vocalsound} so basically uh the {disfmarker} as I told you the identification of how the remote control works and what are the various parts to it uh and whatare the different processes um {vocalsound} and how the parts uh communicate with each other . Um {vocalsound} okay , so e the mee email said that teletextis now outdated , so we need to do away with that functionality of the remote control . Um also uh the remote control should be used only for television , becauseincorporating other features um makes it more comp complex . And the reason why teletext is outdated because uh of internet and uh the availability of internetover television . How however , our our remote control would only be dealing uh with the {vocalsound} the use for television , {vocalsound} in order to keepthings simple . Um {vocalsound} also the management wants that um our design should be unique uh it {disfmarker} so {vocalsound} it should incorporate umcolour and the slogan uh that our company um has it as its standard . {vocalsound} Okay , so he he here is a functional overview of the remote control . Um{vocalsound} there's basically an energy source at the heart uh which feeds into the chip and the user interface . The user interf interface communicates with thechip , so {vocalsound} I'll basic go over to the {disfmarker} Okay . {vocalsound} So {vocalsound} if uh if this is our energy source and this is a cell , uh itcommunicates {disfmarker} uh it feeds energy into the into the chip , which basically finds out h uh how how to do everything . There is a user interface here .{vocalsound} So whe when the user presses a button , it feeds into the chip and the chip then generates a response and takes the response to an infraredterminal , um which then {disfmarker} so the output of the chip is an infrared bit code , which is then communicated {vocalsound} to the remote site , which hhas an infrared receiver . Um the there can be uh a bulb here or something to indicate whether the remote is on or communicating . Um so these are the essentso a all the functionality of the remote control , whatever new functions that we need to do , um make the chip more complicated uh and bigger , basically.Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay . {vocalsound} Um so {vocalsound} i in my personal preferences um {vocalsound} I'mhoping that we can ke keep the design as simple and clear as possible . This would uh help us uh to upgrade our technology at a future point of time . And uh alsoif we can incorporate uh the latest features in our chip design , so that our um {vocalsound} uh remote control does not become outdated soon and it'scompatible with mot most uh televisions . {vocalsound} That's about it . {vocalsound} So anything that you would like to know or {vocalsound}{disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay .User Interface: {vocalsound} Thanks .Project Manager: Do you have any um i idea about costs at this point ?IndustrialDesigner: {vocalsound} No , I don't have any idea about what each component costs .Project Manager: {vocalsound} BrIndustrial Designer: Um yeah .ProjectManager: Okay . 'Cause that's something to consider , I guess , if we're if we're using more advanced technology , it might increase the price .IndustrialDesigner: Yeah . Certainly , yeah . So so tha yeah , {vocalsound} we definitely need to operate within our constraints ,Project Manager: Yeah .IndustrialDesigner: but um {vocalsound} unfortunately I I do not have any data , so uh I just identified the functional components for that .Project Manager: That's fine .Are there any more questions , or shall we just skip straight to the next one and then we can discuss all of them together at the end ?User Interface:{vocalsound} I think we need like some general discussion at the end probably .Industrial Designer: Yeah , okay .Project Manager: Yeah , I think that will do .Okay , so do you want to {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah . Yeah , I think since since we were discussing some um design issues then I I I would like to continue{disfmarker}Project Manager: Yes , shall shall we pull this up ?User Interface: okay , yeah .Project Manager: I think that has to come out of there .IndustrialDesigner: Yeah .Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Mm 'kay .User Interface: {vocalsound} Thanks .Project Manager: Yeah , I thought those last minutethings , they're gonna hit you the worst . {vocalsound}User Interface: Oh i {vocalsound} Okay , I hope {disfmarker} wait . Should it just {disfmarker}IndustrialDesigner: I it'll take some time .Project Manager: It ta takes a little {disfmarker} Oh , and have you {disfmarker}User Interface: There's just nothing .ProjectManager: you need to then also press on yours , function F_ eight ,User Interface: Oh right , right , right , um {disfmarker}Project Manager: so the blue functionkey at the bottom and F_ eight .User Interface: Okay . NothinIndustrial Designer: Oh , there it is , yeah .User Interface: okay , something is coming up .ProjectManager: {vocalsound} Now it's coming ,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} It'll come up , it {disfmarker} um uh no signal .Project Manager: computer no signal.User Interface: No signal ? Why ?Project Manager: Maybe again ?Industrial Designer: Yeah yeah , it says something now ,User Interface: Oh . My my computerwent blank now .Industrial Designer: adjusting {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay , adjusting .User Interface: Adjusting . But {vocalsound} I don't seeanythingIndustrial Designer: Okay .Project Manager: There we go , there we go .User Interface: I don't see anything on my computer now .Industrial Designer:Oh , that's strange .Project Manager: Oh , if you press if you press function and that againUser Interface: This is the problem , but {disfmarker}Project Manager:there's there's usually three modes , one where it's only here , one where it's only there , and one where it's both .Industrial Designer: Okay .User Interface: Um{gap} .Industrial Designer: And one more time .Project Manager: Okay , so one more time .User Interface: Uh now it's {disfmarker} okay . No ? No .IndustrialDesigner: Mm .Project Manager: Should {disfmarker} yeah just wait for a moment , adjusting .User Interface: Oh okay .Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay.User Interface: Okay , that's fine , that's good . Okay , let's start from the beginning . So I'm going to speak about technical functions design uh just like some{vocalsound} some first issues that came up . Um 'kay , so the method I was um adopting at this point , it's not um for the for the whole um period of the um{vocalsound} all the project but it's just at th at this very moment .Project Manager: Mm-hmm .User Interface: Um uh my method was um to look at um other


Project Manager: Hello .Marketing: Hey guys .User Interface: Hi .Industrial Designer: Hi .Project Manager: Hi .Industrial Designer: I see my bunny is still standing.Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: No one drawing it .Project Manager: It's too beautiful .User Interface: Yeah , true .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Uh I figured uh that much . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Too wicked .User Interface: Mm .Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}{vocalsound}Project Manager: A minute please , my uh laptop is uh {disfmarker} oh , there it is , thank you . So welcome back . {vocalsound} At the functionaldesign meeting um the plan is uh that uh each one of you , so not me but only you uh will uh present uh the the things you worked on uh the last uh half hour . Iwill uh take minutes and will put uh the minutes that I have uh at the end of the session in the shared folder . {vocalsound} Also the minutes of the previoussession are also in the shared folder now , so you can read that uh now or afterwards . Um {vocalsound} uh I had an email from the from the managementboardMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: uh , I don't know if you a al also uh received it , but there were four points uh which uh I think are very important. First one is uh they think that uh teletext teletext becomes outdated uh and internet will be the the main uh focus . {vocalsound} Uh second one is alsoimportant uh , because it's one of the discussion points of the previous session . Uh the remote control shou should onl only be used for the television , so it uhnot gonna it's not gonna be a multi-purpose remote control , so uh that's one thing to keep in mind .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}ProjectManager: Uh second , and I think that's important for the Marketing uh Expert , uh the current uh customers uh are in the age group group of uh forty years andolder , but with this uh new remote uh they uh will uh {disfmarker} would like to reach uh a group uh younger than uh forty . Uh and uh I think to keep in mind ,but not really uh for now is that they uh want the the the slogan and the and the logo uh to uh to be recognised more in the remote .Marketing:{vocalsound}Project Manager: So , we have uh forty minutes , so I think uh not more than ten minutes uh uh per presentation uh each , and please uh use uh allthe the the facilities so that you have either SMARTboards , the the Word files , what you uh {disfmarker} whatever you want . So uh Tim , can you start ? Yeah?Marketing: Okay . {vocalsound} 'Kay , welcome . I have some uh new findings on uh Marketing Expert level ,User Interface: Mm-hmm .Marketing: which I willshow you . {vocalsound} The method I used was um giving orders to our usability lab uh to do a questionnaire . Um {vocalsound} one hundred respondents wereinvolved and my marketing uh department generated a report with a lot of results . Um , these were a couple of findings , first page of three . Um , we have threeaudiences of {disfmarker} two audiences , {vocalsound} I'm sorry . Uh the first one , this scale , from sixteen to forty five {gap} age . Uh the second one is fromsixty four {disfmarker} uh forty six to sixty five . Um , as you can see here , the market share for the first audience is about sixty percent {disfmarker} um sixtyfive . Uh second audience audience is uh thirty five percent . Mm {vocalsound} and some interests from the from the age groups , uh it seems like the youngusers of remote controls really like the fancy uh new technology stuff , like uh an L_C_D_ screen on the remote control , um speech recognition . I don't thinkthat's uh really appropriate . Um , {vocalsound} and when you see uh the audience , the age is going up uh {disfmarker} Yeah , they don't really want itanymore , at least the new technologies . Second findings {vocalsound} out of the questionnaire um are the opinion {vocalsound} the opinions uh of theaudience about current remote controls . First point is , seventy five percent of the users find the most repo remote controls very ugly , uh and eighty percent ofthe users would spend more money when a remote control would look fancy . So that's maybe something for the User Interface uh Designer . Okay , thirdfindings . According to the frequency of use versus importance investigation , um {vocalsound} following buttons are most important . Um , I will tell somethingabout the way this uh this test was , yeah , done . Um , {vocalsound} persons were asked uh what the buttons were uh they use most , how much an hour,Project Manager: Mm-hmm .Marketing: and uh in the second table the importance of those buttons . Um , when you multiply them , you get the {disfmarker}these three points . Switching channels , um yeah , that's pretty uh pretty normal , that's what you do with a remote control . Um the second , teletext , uh andthe third , uh volume controls . Um , I think it's good uh that we know what the user want {disfmarker} wants , uh at least the these three points have to be uhvery clear .Project Manager: But it's strange that the the manage board {disfmarker} the management board said that the teletext will be uh outdated by theinternet . So that that's strange .Marketing: Yeah , okay . Yeah , okay , but uh at the moment uh teletext is {disfmarker} Yeah , th the best thing you can get uhon T_V_ , like getting information .Project Manager: Yeah , okay . Yeah .Marketing: So uh , when you ask people , what do they use , {vocalsound} they useteletext and not the internet on a remote control .Project Manager: Okay . Yeah , okay .Marketing: That's ridiculous . {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: That's a ne i it {disfmarker} It's a new technology ,Project Manager: Yeah .Marketing: but it's not incorporated right now . Okay , my personalpreferences . Um , I think we should aim at the uh audience from sixteen to forty five . {vocalsound} Mm , first of all um it's the biggest share , the biggestaudience , sixty five percent . Uh second , I think you will get the most revenue from i from it . Um , yeah , people from sixteen to forty five watch a lot of T_V_ ,more than uh people who are el uh elder . Um {vocalsound} second point , {vocalsound} we have to impro improve the most used functions , as I said here ,switching channels , teletext and volume controls . Third point um that came out of the uh {disfmarker} of the questionnaire , uh people used to uh get lost offthe remote controller , so maybe it's an idea for us uh to design ex kind of placeholder uh on side of the , yeah , of the T_V_Project Manager: Yeah , that's a coolidea .Marketing: where you can put the the remote control in . {vocalsound} Um , that's about it , I think . Yeah .Industrial Designer: When you mentioned uhimproving functions , what uh what do you mean by that what what are you think about ?Marketing: Uh not not the r not the functions ,Industrial Designer:{vocalsound} Uh , the funtionability .Marketing: but uh it came out that a lot of buttons weren't even used uh on a remote control . So you can have a remotecontrol full of buttons , a hundreds hundreds of buttons , but if you don't use them , yeah it's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Ah okay ,so focusing more on the used buttons .Marketing: Yeah , they have to be on itIndustrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: j just to t to get it done if necessary ,UserInterface: {vocalsound}Marketing: but um the most used buttons uh have to be bigger or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Could you use perhaps uh one buttonfor multiple functions , like example pressing it in longer makes it switch to an different function for example .Marketing: Yeah , perhaps .Industrial Designer:Thank you .Marketing: Just for the minor functions perhaps .Industrial Designer: Yeah , ma perhaps , just just an idea .Marketing: Just to get less buttons on theremote control , to make it easier and quicker to learn .Industrial Designer: Yeah .Marketing: Yeah ? 'Kay , that's it .Project Manager: Thank you , Tim .{vocalsound} Janus , can you uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Uh yeah yeah , I'll go , sure . Right uh , I'll be uh explaining a bit about uh working designabout uh the project . Well uh what I did was I dissected uh uh current remote controls and um I viewed how how they w looked , how they worked , uh whatkind of components are involved , and how they are connected together . And uh after that I put up a scheme about how uh these things are organised and I'llshow it to you in in a in a few seconds . And I'll explain a bit about uh how it works and how we could uh build one and why I think several possibilities uh that wediscussed in the earlier meeting falls off . Um right . Uh well what I did was uh I I checked uh remote controls and the uh remote controls of today are all infrared, not like all probably know . And the thing about that is um the remote controls uh have to act as a T_V_ or uh a stereo or something , and those uh have atransmitter that's also focused on infrared , so if we want to uh build uh mm a remote control uh with Bluetooth for instance then uh the T_V_ should haveBluetooth too in order to communicate , so that would mean extra cost for the user and thus uh that's that wouldn't mean a a cheap uh remote control for us . Sothat's probably why most controls are still infrared . Furthermore they all have uh a a very simple structure , so that would probably uh mean lower costs and uh ithat could mean for us a good thing uh 'cause uh well we we should be able to build a relatively cheap uh {gap} a cheap uh remote . Well uh as I mentionedready , we have some Bluetooth {disfmarker} Well it may be possible , but uh I figured it wouldn't be possible in {disfmarker} within our budget , but that's notfor me to decide , but that's maybe something for marketing to look into . F because uh {disfmarker} well my personal opinion is uh is not to do uh Bluetooth{gap} or or radio waves , {vocalsound} although {disfmarker}Marketing: What do you think about uh incorporating Bluetooth or a radio uh receiver uh in theplace-holder next to the T_V_ , connected to the T_V_ ?Industrial Designer: Yeah , actually I have tMarketing: So it's in the wrong product .Industrial Designer:Yeah . Yeah , I actually {disfmarker} I figured that would be that would be rather nice , but then you'd still have the uh {disfmarker} the infrared function . So inin theory you'd actually just move the problem ,Marketing: Yeah . Yeah .Industrial Designer: but uh what I did uh think about was when you mentioned about theuh the cup-holder , is why not uh introduce a speech function like where is the remote . If somebody says , where is the remote , then it goes uh beep uh beepbeep beep or something ,User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .Industrial Designer: I dunno , maybe uh maybe something to look into , Idunno uh what the cost {gap} that something like that would be . But it may be uh may be something to explore . Uh I'll I'll just explain a bit of the components .Uh first you have the energy source . The energy source would be a battery , simple uh battery uh that you can find anywhere . I figured that would be best ,'cause when the battery uh stops functioning uh we could just uh use {disfmarker} you could just go out and buy a new one . So we didn't {disfmarker} and wedon't have to do all uh {disfmarker} to be too complicated about that . Uh the energy source is connected to the infrared button , but uh the infrared button uh


Lynne Neagle AM: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee this morning. I have received apologies forabsence from Jack Sargeant, and I'm very pleased to welcome Vikki Howells, who is substituting for Jack this morning. Can I ask whether there are anydeclarations of interest from Members, please? No. Okay. Thank you. Item 2 this morning is our last evidence session on the Children (Abolition of Defence ofReasonable Punishment) (Wales) Bill, and I'm really pleased to welcome back Julie Morgan AM, Deputy Minister for Health and Social Services; Karen Cornish,who is deputy director of the children and families division; and Emma Gammon, who is the lawyer working on the Bill. So, thank you all for coming. If you'rehappy, we'll go straight into questions because we've got lots of ground that we want to cover, and the first questions are from Janet Finch-Saunders.JanetFinch-Saunders AM: Good morning. Thank you, Chair. Good morning, Deputy Minister. Of those individuals who responded to our written consultation in apersonal capacity, nearly 70 per cent do not support this Bill. We also heard a clear message from the parents we met last week who oppose this Bill that, asparents, they understand clearly the difference between child abuse and a light smack from a loving parent. How would you like to respond to that?Julie MorganAM: Thank you very much, Janet, for that question. I think I'd like to start by saying that child abuse is not the issue that the Bill is trying to address. What theBill is trying to do is prohibit all forms of physical punishment, and that is in order to protect children's rights and to ensure that children have the same protectionfrom physical punishment as adults. But I do understand that people have different views, and that's why this process has been so important—for us to hear whatyour views are and what parents' views are. I know that, often, people use different euphemisms really to make light of physical punishment. I've heardexpressions used such as a 'light smack' or a 'loving smack' or a 'tap', and really there can be different interpretations of what is a 'light smack', what is a 'lovingsmack', and that doesn't really cover the issue of the frequency of such actions being taken. But I would say that, however mild it seems to be, the United NationsCommittee on the Rights of the Child recognises that any physical punishment of children, however minor, is incompatible with their human rights, and whyshould a big person hit a little person? That's been the sort of mantra, really, that has taken me through supporting this legislation—that it just seems wrong tome that there is something in the law that could mean that there could be an excuse for that happening. I believe we shouldn't have anything in the law thatdefends the physical punishment of children, and I don't think we should be defining acceptable ways of hitting or punishing children, because I think it does senda confused message to children. It says, 'It's okay for me to hit you, but don't you hit anybody else.' I think it causes confusion. So, I'm confident that updatingthe law will make it much clearer for parents and people working with children—and, of course, I'm sure, as you'll have heard from the evidence you've taken,that people who work with children are overwhelmingly in support of this legislation, and the representative surveys that we've carried out show support for theBill's principles.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you, Deputy Minister. Last week, during the workshop, a few parents—predominantly all of them, actually—saidthat they use a gentle tap or smacking as part of a toolkit of ways to deal with challenging behaviour or, sometimes, for the safety of the child or, indeed, to carryout the parenting of a child. How do you intend to work with parents going forward, given the finite resources that social care and social services have? I knowfrom the responses we've received to the consultation that parents themselves who have to parent 24 hours a day, seven days a week, they are really, on thescale of things, very upset about this. How do you intend to try and get your message across to those parents on removing what they consider to be part of theirtoolkit when raising children? How do you intend to deal with that aspect?Julie Morgan AM: Well, first of all, I want to say, as I've said in most evidence sessions,that I completely accept that bringing up children is hard. It's very difficult; many of us have done it and we know how tough it can be. But we don't think thatthere is any place for physical punishment in bringing up children. There's a whole range of other ways that you can help parents bring up children, and adviceyou can give them of different methods to use. But, the clear message of this Bill is that we don't want any physical punishment; we don't think it's the right thingto do, and we believe that we are supported by many people in that view.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: You've got other questions,Janet.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Okay. Oh, yes. Several consultation responses refer to statistics from Sweden, which they say show that child-on-child violenceactually increased by 1,791 per cent between 1984 and 2010, following the ban on physical punishment in 1979. What is your view on these figures and how canwe be certain that this Bill won't lead to other long-term negative outcomes in Wales?Julie Morgan AM: Well, I'm aware of the debate surrounding theinterpretation of the different statistics from Sweden. What's happened, really, in the academic research is that different academics are focused on differentfigures to support their views, and the methodological ways of doing it makes it quite difficult to have causation. I was very encouraged that a recent study of 88countries concluded that if a country prohibits corporal punishment, the result is association with less youth violence, and this is one of the largest cross-nationalanalyses of youth violence, with more than 400,000 participants. So, there is other evidence, very widespread evidence, which looks at a whole range of people,that is in contrast to the Swedish evidence. But, evidence in this field is mixed and we have considered a wide range of research and reviews, but ultimately thedecision is one that is based on our commitment to children's rights.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Okay, thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Do you want question 3?JanetFinch-Saunders AM: I can do it, yes. The Bill's explanatory memorandum says that 'there is no definitive evidence that "reasonable" physical punishment causesnegative outcomes for children'. However, we have heard from Equal Protection Network Cymru that international evidence could not be clearer and that theyfound the Wales Centre for Public Policy's report, on which the explanatory memorandum is based, very confusing and very frustrating, and that it didn't tie inwith what they knew. How would you respond to those viewpoints?Julie Morgan AM: We were very keen to get as balanced research as we possibly could, and wedidn't want to just put forward views that we thought agreed with our point of view. So, we were trying to give a balanced point of view, but we did commissionthe Wales Centre for Public Policy to do an independent literature review and we're honestly reporting to you what they said. But they did make it clear, again,which I think I've said in previous evidence sessions, that all physical punishment, under all conditions, is potentially harmful to children. And certainly, there isno peer-reviewed research that says that physically punishing a child is going to improve things, has favourable outcomes. So, I understand what EqualProtection Network Cymru are saying, because there is a lot of very strong evidence, but we're giving you the evidence that we had from the research that wecommissioned.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. We've got some questions now from Suzy on implementation.Suzy Davies AM: Thank you, Chair. I've just got acouple of questions on this balance between the steps that will be needed to implement this Bill and the impact that it'll actually have. You've probably heard inevidence that we've received that there are still some concerns out there about how agencies might address malicious reporting; some detail about how thepublic interest test might be applied further along the line; what's going to happen with out-of-hours provision from social services, and so on. There are still,from our perspective, quite a few things that are unknown about the effect on our public services in particular of the implementation of this Bill. Would you agreethat perhaps we should know a little bit more about that before we proceed with supporting the Bill?Julie Morgan AM: Well, it's very difficult, bringing in thislegislation that hasn't been done before. It's very difficult to gauge the impact, and we've covered that, I know, in previous discussions. But I think it's veryimportant to say that we are not creating a new offence. The Bill is removing a defence to an offence of common assault. And I think it's an interesting point tomake that, in Ireland, they introduced similar legislation through an amendment to a Bill, and had no detailed preparation for bringing in the Bill, and in factthere's no evidence that this has caused any difficulties, and no significant negative impacts or increase in workload. But in any case, we have our implementationgroup, which is going to address many of these issues. This met on 14 May. That was the first meeting. You see, I think we do have to take a balance betweenassuming this Bill is going to go through and what we can actually do. We can't presume that the Assembly will accept this Bill, so we have to be staged in whatwe do. But we had the first strategic implementation group on 14 May, and we had representatives from the police, the police and crime commissioners, theCrown Prosecution Service, the Association of Directors of Social Services Cymru, the Association of Directors of Education in Wales, the Welsh Local GovernmentAssociation, the legal profession and the third sector. They're all there, and they're all very keen to make this legislation work and to look at the implications of it.I'd just like to say how grateful I am for all those organisations giving their time and commitment. They've set up four work streams, looking at parenting adviceand support; data collection, evaluation and monitoring; operations, procedures and processes; and out-of-court disposals and diversions. These groups will betaking forward this work and will be looking at many of those issues that you've mentioned, and will also be updated on the progress of the awareness strategythat we will be bringing in. I'm really confident that the legislation will be implemented in a very practical and workable way, because we do have the commitmentof all these agencies, and there's been a huge amount of preparation done in the Welsh Government to prepare for this in a way that, I have to say, hasn't beendone in some of the other countries—as I mentioned, in Ireland. So, as much preparation as could be done is being done and has been done, but we really nowsee that the implementation group is taking forward all these issues, and obviously those agencies that are taking part in the implementation group are, on thewhole, in support of the principles of this Bill.Suzy Davies AM: Well, thank you for that, Minister, but the way I look at this is that you've already said that, if this


Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Hmm .Project Manager: Okay . Good morningeverybody . Um I'm glad you could all come . I'm really excited to start this team . Um I'm just gonna have a little PowerPoint presentation for us , for our kick-offmeeting . My name is Rose Lindgren . I I'll be the Project Manager . Um our agenda today is we are gonna do a little opening and then I'm gonna talk a little bitabout the project , then we'll move into acquaintance such as getting to know each other a little bit , including a tool training exercise . And then we'll move intothe project plan , do a little discussion and close , since we only have twenty five minutes . First of all our project aim . Um we are creating a new remote controlwhich we have three goals about , it needs to be original , trendy and user-friendly . I'm hoping that we can all work together to achieve all three of those . Um sowe're gonna divide us up into three {vocalsound} compa three parts . First the functional design which will be uh first we'll do individual work , come into ameeting , the conceptional design , individual work and a meeting , and then the detailed design , individual work and a meeting . So that we'll each be doing ourown ideas and then coming together and um collaborating . Okay , we're gonna get to know each other a little bit . So um , what we're gonna do is start off withum let's start off with Amina . Um Alima ,Industrial Designer: Alima .Project Manager: sorry , Alima .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}ProjectManager: Um we're gonna do a little tool training , so we are gonna work with that whiteboard behind you . Um introduce yourself , um say one thing aboutyourself and then draw your favourite animal and tell us about it .Industrial Designer: Okay . Um I don't know which one of these I have to bring with me .ProjectManager: Probably both .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Right , so , I'm supposed to draw my favourite animal . I have no drawing skills whatsoever . But uhlet's see , introduce myself . My name is Alima Bucciantini . Um I'm from the state of Maine in the US . I'm doing nationalism studies , blah , blah , blah , and Ihave no artistic talents .Project Manager: How do you spell your name ?Industrial Designer: A_ L_ I_ M_ A_ .Project Manager: Thanks .Industrial Designer: Oh ,and I guess I'm the Industrial Designer on this project . So let's see if I can getMarketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: um here . I will draw alittle turtle for you all . Not necessarily 'cause it's my absolute favourite animal , but just that I think they're drawable . And you have the pretty little shell goingon . Some little eyes . Happy . There you go . That's a turtle .Marketing: Yes .Project Manager: So what are your favourite characteristics ?Industrial Designer:Um . I I like the whole having a shell thing .Project Manager: Mm .Industrial Designer: It's quite cool carry your home around where you go , um quite decorativelittle animals , they can swim , they can , they're very adaptable , they carry everything they need with them , um and they're easy to draw .Project Manager:{vocalsound} Excellent .User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Shall we just go around the table ?User Interface: Uh Okay . Well , myname is Iain uhProject Manager: Mm .User Interface: and I'm the User Interface Designer for the project . Um . And I'll try and draw my favourite animal.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} No ,User Interface: I'll {disfmarker} I should leave that one on thereIndustrial Designer: you can erase the turtle ,UserInterface: shouldn't I {vocalsound} before I callously rub it off .Industrial Designer: it's alright .Project Manager: Might be nice to have them all up there at sametime .User Interface: {vocalsound} Um I'm not gonna draw it quite to scale um .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Is that at leastidentifiable ?Industrial Designer: Snake .Marketing: Well .Project Manager: EmIndustrial Designer: Well ,User Interface: It's a whale {vocalsound} , yes.Industrial Designer: snake ? {vocalsound} It's w {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Thanks .Marketing: Oh my god , it's better than what I'm gonna beable to do .User Interface: {vocalsound} Um and , yeah , the reason I like whales is 'cause uh they're {disfmarker} well , first of all they're quite intelligent umand also they're they're kind of mysterious , like we don't really know much about them or or understand how they work , how they form groups . And I just findthem interesting animals .Marketing: Take my contraptions with me . Alright , I'm Jessy . I'm from around D_C_ ish sort of in the U_S_ . And we're gonna keepthe deep sea sort of theme going on , {gap} animal . Don't really know how to draw this . Just where can I {disfmarker} Mm . Mm . Maybe if I do the water,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: but how ? Sort of give an idea . {vocalsound} I have no idea how one would explain this . Mm maybe with somewhiskers . Briefly , it's supposed to be a seal .Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: You can imagine it in the water . I likethem , because they are like playful and silly sort of have a good time . Not gonna try and pretend like I can get any better than that . {vocalsound}ProjectManager: Mm 'kay . Mm 'kay ? I'm Rose and I'm Project Manager , {vocalsound} from California . Um . Hmm . {vocalsound} S {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:{vocalsound} Oh ,Marketing: It's definitely significantly harder once you are doing it .Industrial Designer: a cat .Project Manager: Um it's actually a coyote.Industrial Designer: Yeah .Project Manager: Let's see . Let's see ,Industrial Designer: Right .Marketing: {vocalsound} That's impressive .Project Manager: let'sgive it a little bit of a snout , I don't know , some teeth .Industrial Designer: That's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah .Industrial Designer: That's prettyimpressive .User Interface: Cool . {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Oh dear . {vocalsound} Yes .Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Ilive um I live right across the street from an open space in California . We have coyotes howl all the time . So I really enjoy their their singing , you they're reallybeautiful animals . Mm . {vocalsound} Okay um , moving on to slightly more serious stuff . We're gonna talk about project finances . Um we have a couple{vocalsound} we'd like to sell it for about twenty five Euro with the profit aim of um fifteen million Euro um from our sales and because this is such {disfmarker}this is for television it's a {disfmarker} we have a market range of Internet , like it's an international market range , we don't have to worry about specifics . Umin order to make a profit of this magnitude , we need to um be able to produce each one at a maximum of twelve fifty Euro . So we're selling it for twice whatwe'd like to produce it for . Okay um , just to generate a little bit of discussion about the project um , I could {disfmarker} I'd like to hear about your experiencesusing ro remote controls , um your first ideas about um creating a new r remote control , what would be the best um like you {disfmarker} what are the featuresthat you really like what are the features that you don't like , etcetera , so {disfmarker}Marketing: Um I hate when there's like four different buttons and youhave to press to actually turn on the T_V_ like you have to do one for the power of the T_V_ and then like another one to get the actual screen on and somethingelse to get it all going , I don't know . Now they keep combining all different remotes together , and I don't know if I necessarily like that 'cause I feel like you endup with multimedia overload .User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: I just wanna watch the T_V_ {vocalsound} um .Project Manager: Hmm .Marketing:{vocalsound} Always gets lost . Some sort of like device to help you find it .User Interface: I've used , I've used remote controls , for things like T_V_ and theC_D_ player and video recorder and I I guess they're they're pretty neat neat little tools uh . You don't have to get up and walk across the room to change achannel .Project Manager: Mm .User Interface: So especially if you're someone really lazy like me they they're pretty nice . Um . I find them {disfmarker} theycan be a bit annoying , especially , like you know if I'm watching T_V_ I have have to have three separate remote controls of {disfmarker} in front of me , youknow , one for the T_V_ , one for the digital box , one for m the video recorder as well . Um . And also they tend to they tend to be a bit confusing , they've gottoo many buttons on them uh too too sort of too sort of complicated when all I really wanna do is switch on and off , change the channel , change the volume.Industrial Designer: Yeah um . I agree with having too many remotes around . My dad has a whole drawer at home of remotes for various things , and I don'tknow how to work half of them um . What's important for me , I guess , is that it's easy to use and that there's not too many buttons , they are not too small ,you know you know you need to n to know what you're doing . And one thing I particularly like is if you are not um sort of moving it around to get it to work withthe infra-red .Marketing: Yeah .Industrial Designer: Um , I think there is a way around that ,User Interface: Yeah .Industrial Designer: but I know in my residenceright now the the television you sort of have to walk all around the room to get it to turn on ,Project Manager: {vocalsound} Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: so iit's just simpler just to just turn around the T_V_ itself , and I think that's {disfmarker} if we're gonna make a remote control , it should actually work for whatit's doing . So {disfmarker}Marketing: What about like batteries and things like that , like are there some remotes that don don't require like batteries or do allremotes require batteries ?Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um I would imagine all of them ,Industrial Designer: I know .Project Manager: but we could{disfmarker} but it's possible we could use like a lithium battery um that would last a lot longer than like double A_s .Industrial Designer: Yeah , something thatdoesn't {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm .Project Manager: Um like tho those are the batteries that are used in a lot of um M_P_ three players now and thatkind of thing . Um .Marketing: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: Mm .Project Manager: Um . Okay , it seems we have a little bit of a conflict over um to uhcombining all the remotes cont together versus having f five different remotes . So um like you said you don't like having all the buttons on one on one remote ,and yet you don't wanna have five remotes . So how do we work with that ?Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .User Interface: Mm .Industrial Designer:Could we get something that just has {disfmarker} No doesn't have all the buttons that you need to program the video recorder or program s other things thatI'm not very coherent about , but that just has your major buttons for {disfmarker} that work for everything , you know volume control , on , off ,ProjectManager: Mm-hmm .Industrial Designer: channel changing .Marketing: And maybe that spatially divides it , so it's like if you're looki if you're trying to get theT_V_ on that's , you know , like the top thing on the remote , I dunno if d be vertical or horizontal in terms of how we're gonna make it , but if it's like all the