{
  "sample_id": "IvdsfraL50w_001",
  "video_id": "IvdsfraL50w",
  "video_title": "Wearing pajamas to work: Eva's life with depression | no stigma!",
  "chapter_title": "Eva shows us her world",
  "chapter_start_sec": 90.0,
  "chapter_end_sec": 1466.0,
  "audio_file": "001 Eva shows us her world.mp3",
  "srt_file": "001 Eva shows us her world.srt",
  "language_code": "de",
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  "elevenlabs_model_id": "scribe_v2",
  "created_at_utc": "2026-03-25T16:37:32.316618+00:00",
  "transcript_text": "Aufgewuselt und redegewandt und so, aber eigentlich, wenn ich so richtig reinspüre, dann bin ich irgendwie 'n bisschen platt. Können wir irgendwas tun, dass du dich entplättest? Ähm, nö. Das einfach annehmen und damit umgehen. Das Annehmen und damit umgehen ging bei dir ja, wenn ich richtig informiert bin, so in etwa mit 13 Jahren los beziehungsweise mit 13 hast du das erste Mal dich einer Diagnose stellen müssen. Genau. Was war da und wie hat sich das für dich angefühlt? Offiziell wurde da 'ne Depression festgestellt. Mir ging's mit 13 einfach nicht so gut. Ich bin in die Pubertät gekommen. Meine Mutter und ich hatten dann, ja, viel Streit und es kam so 'n bisschen raus, dass ich meine Gefühle nicht so regulieren kann und meine Eltern wussten sich ab 'nem bestimmten Zeitpunkt nicht mehr selber zu helfen und sind dann mit mir zur Therapeutin gegangen und die hat eben festgestellt, dass ich eine Depression habe und das war mit 13. Ich kann mich aber erinnern, dass ich solche Gefühle wie mit 13 auch schon früher als Kind hatte. Also eigentlich war ich schon immer so und ich dachte halt, das muss so. Ich bin halt so. Na ja, man kennt ja auch nur sich selbst, wie sich's in einem selbst anfühlt. Was normal ist oder wie andere fühlen, das, das weiß man ja in aller Regel gar nicht. Eben, genau. Ich hab nur gemerkt, ich hab Schwierigkeiten und ich bin oft bedrückt und auch niedergeschlagen. Aber wie du schon sagst, ja, ich kannte es halt nicht anders. Wie war es denn ab dem Moment, wo du's sozusagen schwarz auf weiß hattest? War das 'ne Erleichterung? War das 'n Schock? Das' 'ne sehr gute Frage. Ähm, ich hab ja öfter in meinem Leben schon Depressionen diagnostiziert bekommen und das war jedes Mal so 'n bisschen anders. Und mit 13 explizit war das alles ein großer Gefühlschaosklumpen, weil mit 13 ist man ja jetzt auch nicht so reflektiert oder informiert. Ich hab nur gemerkt, okay, irgendwas stimmt nicht mit mir und irgendwie wird's vielleicht besser durch die Therapie, aber keine Ahnung. Und später in meinem Leben war ich immer wieder neu überrascht, wenn mir jemand gesagt hat: \"Ja, Sie haben 'ne Depression.\" Du bist immer wieder neu überrascht gewesen? Ich dachte, es kommt dann irgendwann so: \"Ja gut, weiß ich. Next.\" Ja, dacht ich auch, aber, ähm, zum Beispiel mit Anfang 20 hatte ich wieder 'ne depressive Episode. Ich hab die so alle vier Jahre relativ heftig. Zwischen diesen Jahren komme ich irgendwie besser klar. Und jetzt je älter ich werde, desto mehr Kompetenzen hab ich durch meine Therapie auch erlangt, um mir selber gut zu begegnen in der Zeit. Ja, grade so mit Anfang 20, wenn da jemand sitzt und sagt: \"Ja, Sie haben 'ne Depression, Sie sind psychisch krank\", das hat mir jedes Mal wieder irgendwie den Boden unter den Füßen weggezogen. Weil du glaubst, einem gesellschaftlichen Normativ nicht zu entsprechen oder weil es dir 'ne Schwäche offenbart? Oder warum ist das so, warum fühlt sich das so schlimm an für dich? Also erst mal ist es ja generell nicht schön, wenn man hört, dass man erkrankt ist. Diese Herausforderung, dass ich da jetzt dran arbeiten muss in einer Therapie, die extrem anstrengend ist. Und grade so mit Anfang 20 und Mitte 20 dachte ich so: \"Na ja, ich hab doch schon Therapien gemacht. Ich bin da doch schon durch. Warum denn jetzt schon wieder?\" Das Thema mit dem Stigma ist natürlich auch irgendwo so 'ne Sache, aber ich hab tatsächlich immer tolle Freundinnen gehabt und hab die auch noch und die sind da immer sehr wohlwollend und offen mit mir umgegangen. Ja, und du meintest vorhin dieses: \"Ah ja, ich weiß ja, dass ich 'ne Depression hab.\" Das hab ich auch immer gesagt, äh, bis mich meine Psychiaterin dann mal in 'ne Psychoedukationsgruppe gesteckt hat. Was ist das? Psychoedukationsgruppe ist so 'n, wie so 'n Theorieunterricht in der Fahrschule. Du setzt dich da rein und lernst Fakten über deine Erkrankung. Als ich da hin bin mit Mitte 20, hab ich zum ersten Mal begriffen, was meine Depression eigentlich alles ist. Wo ist die Krankheit in mir? Was ist mein Charakter? Ich durfte lernen, dass ich kein scheißfauler Mensch bin, dass ich keinen blöden Charakter hab, sondern dass das die Erkrankung ist. Das hast du quasi mit Mitte 20 eigentlich erst mal nach über zehn Jahren das so greifen können. Genau. Und vorher war das immer so 'n diffuses Etwas. Ich hab Therapien gemacht, ich hab auch Erfolge verzeichnet, aber dass ich so diesen Blick von außen bekommen hab, wo ich dann wirklich gesehen hab, ah, da tut sich was aus den und den Gründen, das war erst, als ich quasi, ja, Expertin über meine eigene Krankheit wurde. Du bist jetzt Anfang 30 und also noch mal 'n paar Jahre vorangegangen. Wie würdest du denn sagen, hat sich deine Erkrankung gewandelt oder hast du dich gewandelt im Umgang mit dieser Erkrankung, auch mit dem Wissen, was du jetzt erworben hast und mit der Erfahrung? Also ich hab schon sehr, sehr viele depressive Episoden erlebt und ich kann vorweg sagen, jede Episode ist scheiße. Es fühlt sich immer gleich mies an. Manchmal fühle ich auch gar nichts. Es ist jedes Mal doof, scheiße, aber dadurch, dass ich viele Therapiestunden hinter mir hab, weiß ich, wie ich mir begegnen kann. Ich mach mir heutzutage weniger Druck und ich hab ein Vertrauen entwickelt darein, dass diese Phasen, die da sind, auch wieder vorbeigehen. Und das hatte ich früher nicht. Das ist, glaube ich, das, was sich verändert hat und was es auch irgendwie erträglich macht, auch wenn's nie Spaß macht. Einen typischen Tag wird's wahrscheinlich nicht geben, aber so einen Depressionstag versuchen zu umreißen. Also geht man abends schon ins Bett und weiß: \"Scheiße, morgen früh wird's, wird's doof?\" Oder wirst du jedes Mal davon irgendwie überrascht? Es hängt 'n bisschen davon ab, in welcher Zeit wir gucken. Also es gibt immer 'ne depressive Episode und die kündigt sich manchmal an. Manchmal ist sie auch einfach da. Und so 'n typischer Tag beginnt bei mir eigentlich damit, dass der Wecker klingelt und ich den zehnmal weiter drücke und erst gar nicht aus'm Bett komme. In mir drin-Grübelt's meistens ganz, ganz viel. Also Menschen sagen ja, man grübelt, aber ich werde gegrübelt. Also irgendwas in meinem Kopf gräbt die schlimmsten Erinnerungen und Momente aus meinem Leben aus und das lähmt mich dann so, dass ich erst gar nicht aus dem Bett rauskomme. Dann bin ich auch sehr gut darin, mich dafür fertigzumachen, dass ich nicht aus dem Bett komme, dass ich nicht funktioniere, dass ich mir nichts zu essen mache. Ähm, da verbringe ich sehr viel Zeit mit. Oft müsste ich auch eigentlich auf der Arbeit sein und schaff's aber nicht. Und dann schreibe ich den Leuten, dass ich heute von zu Hause aus arbeite, wenn es geht oder wenn die Depression so schlimm ist, dann melde ich mich auch einfach krank und sag: \"Sorry, geht gerade nicht.\" Da bin ich ganz froh, dass ich das einfach so offen teilen darf. Das wäre jetzt meine nächste Frage gewesen. Also bei dir auf der Arbeit, deine Kolleginnen und Kollegen, die wissen also um deine Erkrankung und das ist da, also du erfährst da kein Stigma. Genau, ich hab ja mit zwei anderen ein Unternehmen gegründet und wir sind inzwischen auch fünf Gesellschafterinnen in dem Unternehmen und die wussten im Grunde, worauf sie sich einlassen, aber ich glaube, es funktioniert auch nur so gut, weil sie mich nehmen, wie ich bin. Wir reden natürlich immer noch über 'ne Erkrankung. Na ja, dann, da ist, glaube ich, wenn wir es einfacher machen, das, das klingt immer so schön, aber so lange, wie du schon jetzt auch damit zu tun hast, so richtig viel einfacher geworden zu sein, scheint es mir jetzt nicht. Also die äußeren Umstände sind bei mir eben sehr einfach. Dadurch, dass alle Bescheid wissen, dass ich inzwischen in der Lage bin, darüber zu sprechen. Eigentlich verschlägt einem die Depression nämlich total die Sprache. Es gab Wochen und Monate, da konnt ich gar nicht ausdrücken, wie ich mich fühle oder was ich fühle. Und das geht heute deutlich besser. Ähm, und dadurch, dass ich selbstständig bin und dann doch mal meinen Arbeitsbeginn auswählen kann, ist es bei mir einfacher geworden, weil ich mich so einrichten konnte. Aber das kann natürlich auch nicht jede Person machen, ne. Erlaubt es dir, deine, ich nenn's jetzt mal Depressionsroutine, dir Dinge eher zu verzeihen? Du hast vorher gesagt, man ist auf den Selbstvorwürfen drin. Ist das immer noch so streng geblieben oder bist du da mittlerweile ein bisschen milder mit dir? Also seit ich weiß, was meine Depression ausmacht, dass das 'ne Krankheit mit Symptomen ist, wie bei 'ner Erkältung, da hast du Schnupfen und Husten und hier hab ich halt Konzentrationsschwäche und Antriebslosigkeit beispielsweise. Und seit ich weiß, dass das zur Krankheit dazu gehört, kann ich milder mit mir sein und mach mich nicht mehr so doll fertig dafür. Mhm. Schon, ja. Du hast grade schon gesagt, dass sich diese Phasen ankündigen. Manchmal kommen sie auch so, aber oftmals kommen sie mit 'ner Ankündigung. Gibt's manchmal vielleicht die Möglichkeit, sie sogar wegzupuffern irgendwie? Oder bist du ihr dann quasi nach wie vor schutzlos ausgeliefert und wartest nur, wann jetzt der Impact kommt? Also ja, ja, ich merke, wenn sich meine Depression ankündigt. Das merk ich, weil ich das mit meiner Therapeutin irgendwann mal erarbeitet habe. Wir haben geschaut, was sind so die Signale vielleicht in meinem Leben, die mich merken lassen, da könnte eventuell 'ne depressive Episode kommen. So was nennt man auch Frühwarnzeichen. Und ich weiß zum Beispiel, wenn ich acht Tassen Kaffee am Tag trinke und immer noch müde bin, dass da 'ne mentale Erschöpfung da ist, die nix mit meiner körperlichen Müdigkeit zu tun hat. Ich spreche darüber, dass ich mich belastet fühle und versuch dann, ja irgendwie so 'n Gang runterzuschalten. Ähm, wir haben uns darauf geeinigt, dass, ähm, ein ganz wichtiger Baustein in deinem Leben hier nicht im Bild auftaucht, aber du hast gesagt, wir können drüber sprechen. Mhm. Und zwar, ähm, dein Partner. Ähm, welche Rolle spielt er als, als Widerlager, als Halt, als, als Stütze? Ja, also ich bin jetzt seit, boah, fast 13 Jahren, äh, in einer Beziehung mit einem Menschen, der für mich so der mental Stabilste ist, den ich kenne. Ja, und er unterstützt mich zum einen darin, dass er mich mal so nimmt, wie ich bin und so liebt, wie ich bin. Und ich kann mit ihm über alles sprechen. Also ich kann mit ihm auch über suizidale Gedanken meinetwegen sprechen. Und was mir ganz wichtig auch zu erwähnen ist, ist, dass er nicht immer am Bett sitzen soll und meine Hand halten muss, wenn ich in 'ner Depression bin, weil das ist ja dann mein Thema. Und er profitiert aber zum Beispiel auch von meiner Therapieerfahrung davon, dass ich auf meine Gefühle schaue. Ich glaub, das hat ihn auch 'n bisschen inspiriert, mal in seine Gefühle reinzuschauen. Du hast grade in einem Nebensatz etwas Bemerkenswertes fallen lassen, was ich gerne noch mal aufgreifen möchte. Du hattest sui-suizidale Gedanken angesprochen. Mhm. Ähm, das hatte mich jetzt grade beim Zuhören ein wenig überrascht, weil, ähm, du nicht den Eindruck gemacht hast, damit zu kämpfen, aber offensichtlich spielt das 'ne Rolle. Kannst du uns da 'n bisschen mehr drüber erzählen? Ja, also suizidale Gedanken oder auch die Tat an sich, dass jemand sich suizidiert, gehört zu 'ner Depression wie die anderen, äh, Symptome. Ja, man muss sich mal vorstellen, ich liege im Bett, ich hab 'ne negative Zukunftsperspektive, ich hab 'n schlechtes Selbstbild, ich hab Antriebslosigkeit, ich kann mich nicht mehr konzentrieren. Und da find ich das irgendwo logisch, dass 'ne Person sagt: \"Ich möchte so nicht mehr weitermachen.\" Und auch ich hab diese Gedanken gehabt, jetzt grade hier nicht, aber in, äh, Episoden, wo du wirklich monatelang durch den Sumpf watest, da gibt's irgendwann so diesen Gedanken zu sagen: \"Ey, ich kann das nicht mehr. Ich will so nicht mehr weitermachen.\"Ja, und das einfach äußern zu dürfen bei einem vertrauten Menschen, der mich daran erinnert, dass dieses So ja nicht für immer bleibt, das ist total viel wert, dass man das nicht mit sich selber ausmachen muss. Nun ist ja das eine 'n rationaler Gedanke, zu wissen, das geht jetzt nicht ewig. Und in den Momenten, wenn du in so einer, so einer Phase drin bist, ist ja mit Vernunft, glaub ich, grade kein Blumentopf zu gewinnen. Wie weit ist es bei dir gegangen? Bist du über die Gedanken mal irgendwann hinausgekommen? Hast du mal 'ne selbstverletzende Handlung... Also ich weiß, es ist jetzt 'ne, 'ne, 'ne sehr deepe Frage, also musst die auch nicht beantworten, aber es würde mich interessieren. Also in der Jugend gab es selbstverletzendes Verhalten. Das hatte aber eher nichts mit Suizidgedanken zu tun. Ich glaub, dadurch, dass ich das immer wieder aussprechen konnte und gemerkt hab, was das für 'ne Resonanz auslöst, zu merken, da sind Leute, die wollen, dass ich hier bleibe. Also ich hab nie 'nen Suizidversuch gemacht, Gott sei Dank. Ich find auch das Wort Selbstmord nicht gut, weil das hat so 'ne aktive Komponente. Aber wenn man mal in 'ner Depression gesteckt hat und weiß, wie machtlos und hilflos man sich fühlt, da, das hat nix mehr mit Selbstwirksamkeit zu tun. Ich hab dieses Thema nicht ohne Grund aufgegriffen, weil, ähm, ich hab das schon mehrfach gehört oder erfahren, dass dieser Moment, wo man das erste Mal denkt: \"Ist eigentlich scheißegal, wenn's jetzt vorbei ist, ist es vorbei\", hat für viele so 'n, so 'n, so 'n unfassbar schweren, wachrüttelnden Charakter, der einerseits natürlich in 'ne Aktion gehen kann, ich muss da jetzt aktiv dagegen irgendwie versuchen anzugehen, oder aber ich verliere mich jetzt in meiner Hoffnungslosigkeit. Wie war das bei dir? Also bei mir war das schon auch sehr alarmierend zu merken: Ach krass, so weit ist es schon. Ich durfte ja in der Edukationsgruppe lernen, dass es wie so 'ne Abwärtsspirale gibt und die Suizidgedanken quasi ganz unten sitzen. Und ich wusste aber auch, dass diese Spirale wieder zurück nach oben gehen kann. Und dieses Wissen hat mir dann auch geholfen, nicht da unten zu verharren sozusagen. Aber es ist schon sehr alarmierend, wenn man diese Gedanken in sich aufkommen spürt. Weil ganz ehrlich, ich lieb mein Leben, ich hab Spaß hier und ich will mir das nicht vermasseln lassen von 'ner Depression. Und dass diese Krankheit so weit fortschreitet, dass ich so 'n Gedanken in Erwägung ziehe, das find ich heutzutage richtig unerhört. Du hast jetzt schon einiges angesprochen. Wir haben über Edukationsgruppe gesprochen, wir haben über Therapie gesprochen. Worüber du nicht gesprochen hast, ist Medikamentierung. Mhm. Wie ist es bei dir? Hast du 'ne Medikamentierung gehabt? Hast du aktuell eine? Also es ist ja so, dass Depressionen vor allem mit Psychotherapie und Psychopharmaka behandelt werden und Psychoedukation ist auch nicht schlecht. Und ich hatte auch schon mal, äh, Antidepressiva in meinem Leben. Ich hab die sieben Jahre lang genommen und es hat mir am Anfang auch so 'n bisschen geholfen, so aus dem gröbsten Loch rauszukommen. Aber es gab irgendwann den Zeitpunkt, wo ich keinen antidepressiven Effekt mehr gespürt habe und dann hab ich irgendwann entschieden, die Medikamente wieder abzusetzen. Ich bin jetzt grade ohne und einigermaßen stabil. Ich mach grade wieder Therapie, ich geh viel zum Sport. Das sind so die Dinge, die mich irgendwie stabil halten. Ich würd aber niemals ausschließen, wenn ich jetzt wieder an so 'nem Punkt bin, wo gar nichts mehr geht, dass ich auch wieder Medikamente nehme oder beispielsweise in 'ne Klinik gehe. Auf der einen Seite ist ja 'ne Depression 'ne leise Krankheit, ist ja 'ne Krankheit, die, die, die von vielen unbemerkt im Stillen abläuft, ne. Man sieht's halt nicht wie, wie jetzt 'n gebrochenen Arm oder Ähnliches. Ja. Und auf der anderen Seite ist es aber auch eine Erkrankung, wo, glaube ich, ganz, ganz viele Menschen 'ne ähnliche Erkrankung mit sich rumtragen und es sehr, sehr viel, du sehr, sehr viel Dankbarkeit erfahren kannst, wenn man zu 'ner Plattform wird, wo, wo sich Menschen begegnen können. Wie kam es bei dir, dass du, dass du diesen Weg gesucht hast? Äh, hat's dir geholfen und was fließt da ein? Also es fing tatsächlich mit dieser Psychoedukationsgruppe an, wo ich extrem viel mitgeschrieben habe. Und ich hab ja Kommunikationsdesign studiert und 'ne halbwegs schöne Handschrift. Und da kam's dann dazu, dass die Mitpatient:innen das gerne abfotografieren oder für sich mitnehmen wollten. Und dann dachte ich: „Aber eigentlich muss das jede Person mit Depressionen wissen.\" Und dann hab ich irgendwann angefangen, ja, auf Instagram diese Erkenntnisse zu posten, das, was ich gelernt hab, irgendwie hübsch aufzubereiten. Teilweise sind da auch so Erkenntnisse aus der Psychotherapie drin und das zu teilen, war anfangs sehr aufregend. Ich hab mich bestimmt drei Jahre lang nicht getraut, überhaupt was zu machen. Und dann zu merken, da sind Leute, die schreiben mir: \"Ey, Eva, mir geht's ganz genauso.\" Wie viele Menschen, darf ich dich fragen, äh, folgen dir da jetzt? Ähm, so 10.000. Ja, krass. Genau. Und das ist so 'ne schöne Verbundenheit, die man, ja, im Internet auch haben kann. Also Social Media ist für mich und meine Community eigentlich total hilfreich, weil wir alle zu Hause im Bett liegen und aber merken, wir sind nicht alleine damit und wir können, äh, uns kann geholfen werden sozusagen und das ist großartig. Dann können wir es ja vielleicht mal ganz praktisch machen. Ähm, fünf Lifehacks, äh, was tue ich, wenn, wenn ich grade in einer depressiven Phase bin? Also ich hab euch erzählt, dass ich manchmal im Schlafanzug auf die Arbeit gehe und ich trag halt 'ne Yogahose und 'n T-Shirt als Schlafanzug, damit, ja, das nicht so auffällt. Ich hab, wie gesagt, diesen, diesen lieben Partner, der mir jeden Morgen 'nen Kaffee ans Bett stellt, so als ersten Kickstarter. Das hilft mir auch sehr. Einfach, ja, so sein dürfen, wie man ist. Ich mach Video Calls aus dem Bett mit meinen Kollegen, das stört die null. Manchmal nehm ich auch einen dieser Elektroroller, die es jetzt hier so auf den Straßen gibt, und fahr dann so mit 20 km/h Antriebslosigkeit auf die Arbeit. Auch das hilft mir. Ähm, ich versuch's mir einfach so einfach wie möglich zu machen, um diese Hürden, die man hat, zu übertreten. Über mentale Gesundheit zu sprechen, warViele Jahre, ich würde gar nicht mal sagen tabuisiert. Es hat einfach nicht stattgefunden, weil es für viele einfach nicht greifbar war. Äh, in den letzten Jahren hat sich das geändert. Ähm, wir haben Gespräche darüber. Und Mensch, du hast grade g-gesagt, dass du selber jetzt von vielen gar nicht so wahrgenommen wirst, als wenn du eine mentale Erkrankung oder ein Problem mit dir rumschleppen würdest. Mhm. Was glaubst du, bringt das für mentale Erkrankungen, wie du sie ja nun auch hast, in einer öffentlichen Wahrnehmung stattzufinden? Das bringt ganz viel Verständnis für 'ne Sache, vor der manche Menschen vielleicht Angst haben, weil sie früher gelernt haben, wer Depressionen hat, ist verrückt. Oder diese ganzen Vorurteile bezüglich einer Klinik. Die Leute, die man im Fernsehen kennt und die man cool findet, wenn die da ganz normal drüber sprechen, dann merkt man, das ist alles gar nicht so wild. Eva, wir sind jetzt einfach mal ein Stück weitergegangen- Ja. -von dir zu Hause, äh, auf Arbeit. Ja, willkommen. Wir heißen Why we do. Wir machen sehr, sehr vieles, äh, vor allem, äh, Produktentwicklung und Innovation. Dabei denken wir nicht nur drüber nach, sondern wir haben auch die passende Werkstatt, um dann 'nen technischen Prototypen zu entwickeln. Mit anderen Worten: Ihr seid nicht nur Denker, ihr seid auch Macher. Genau. Und jetzt kommen wir genau zu dem Punkt. Das hattest du vorhin ja schon mal gesagt: Du musst, um in dieser Firma arbeiten zu können, in deiner Firma kreativ sein. Das geht nun nicht immer, wenn man grade in 'ner Depression drin ist. Ja. Wie, wie kriegst du das hin, trotzdem zu funktionieren, um dieses böse Wort mal zu nehmen? Boah, gute Frage. Also wichtig ist, dass ich mir keinen Druck mache, ähm, dass ich auch mich hier nicht verstellen oder verstecken muss. Manchmal bin ich tatsächlich auch sehr kreativ, wenn ich in 'nem Loch hänge. Nur deshalb ist überhaupt mein Buch entstanden. Mhm. Weil das, da fällt mir nix ein, wenn's mir okay geht. Könntest du so weit gehen zu sagen, dass dir deine Erkrankung auch eine zusätzliche Tür öffnet, die dir unter Umständen als kreativer Mensch sogar 'ne weitere Facette ermöglicht? 'Ne, 'ne, 'ne tiefere Tiefe? Tu mich immer schwer damit, das so als, äh, Kreativquell zu romantisieren. Mhm. Aber natürlich geht man in 'ner depressiven Episode durch starke Situationen und Gefühle durch oder auch Nicht-Gefühle. Und die hätt ich natürlich nicht gehabt, wenn ich da nicht durch gemusst hätte. Ich würd fast eher sagen, dadurch, dass ich viel Psychotherapie gemacht hab und viel reinfühlen und reindenken musste, dass das mir so 'ne neue Welt eröffnet hat. Ich glaub, die Depression alleine, unbehandelt, hätte mich eher so 'n bisschen eingehen lassen. Wie lange machst du's jetzt? Fast zehn Jahre. Und warum grade Pole Dance? Wie bist du dazu gekommen und was bedeutet's dir? Ich fand Sport immer ganz, ganz furchtbar und irgendwann in meinen Zwanzigern hab ich zum Pole gefunden. Ich glaub, weil 'ne Freundin das gemacht hat. Und ich mag total gerne die Kombination aus Tanz und Akrobatik und Musik. Und man muss halt sehr genau gucken, was man macht an der Stange, damit man nicht abstürzt. Mhm. Und da krieg ich extrem gut den Kopf bei frei. Du hast jetzt schon seit über den Daumen gepeilt zwei Dritteln deines Lebens die Diagnose der Depression. Das heißt also, höchstwahrscheinlich wirst du's auch, wird's dich dein Leben lang begleiten. Möglich. Wie, w-wie siehst du diese Perspektive, wenn du dann das nach vorn guckst? Also hast du irgendeine Idee, wo es dich hinführt? Hast du 'n Wunsch, wo es dich hinführt? Mhm. Also ich muss natürlich realistisch in die Zukunft schauen und ich hab diese Krankheit ja jetzt schon sehr lange und die wird auch immer wieder auftauchen, schätze ich. Zumindest wär's jetzt naiv zu glauben, die kommt nie wieder, wenn ich sie einmal überwunden hab und dementsprechend muss ich mein Leben halt so 'n bisschen ausrichten. Eva, vielen lieben Dank, dass wir heute so nah an dich ran durften und den Tag mit dir verbringen durften. Gerne. Ich wünsch dir von Herzen, dass da immer was ist, zum dran festhalten. Sei es 'ne Stange, sei es liebe Menschen in, in deiner Umgebung, sei es deine Kreativität. Und toi, toi, toi, natürlich alles Liebe und, und, und viel Erfolg auch mit, mit deiner Seite bei Insta und natürlich mit deinem Buch. Danke schön. Also das war 'n toller Tag. Danke schön. Ja, schön, dass ihr da wart. Alles Liebe für dich. Danke schön. Du kannst ja auch mal probieren jetzt. Ich glaub, ich krieg erst mal Haue, weil ich Ringe um hab. Da darf ich nicht ran. Genau. Dich so hinstellen und einmal, äh, elegant drumherum laufen wirst du ja können. Gell. Da knackst ja alles. Ah, oder?",
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    "text": "Aufgewuselt und redegewandt und so, aber eigentlich, wenn ich so richtig reinspüre, dann bin ich irgendwie 'n bisschen platt. Können wir irgendwas tun, dass du dich entplättest? Ähm, nö. Das einfach annehmen und damit umgehen. Das Annehmen und damit umgehen ging bei dir ja, wenn ich richtig informiert bin, so in etwa mit 13 Jahren los beziehungsweise mit 13 hast du das erste Mal dich einer Diagnose stellen müssen. Genau. Was war da und wie hat sich das für dich angefühlt? Offiziell wurde da 'ne Depression festgestellt. Mir ging's mit 13 einfach nicht so gut. Ich bin in die Pubertät gekommen. Meine Mutter und ich hatten dann, ja, viel Streit und es kam so 'n bisschen raus, dass ich meine Gefühle nicht so regulieren kann und meine Eltern wussten sich ab 'nem bestimmten Zeitpunkt nicht mehr selber zu helfen und sind dann mit mir zur Therapeutin gegangen und die hat eben festgestellt, dass ich eine Depression habe und das war mit 13. Ich kann mich aber erinnern, dass ich solche Gefühle wie mit 13 auch schon früher als Kind hatte. Also eigentlich war ich schon immer so und ich dachte halt, das muss so. Ich bin halt so. Na ja, man kennt ja auch nur sich selbst, wie sich's in einem selbst anfühlt. Was normal ist oder wie andere fühlen, das, das weiß man ja in aller Regel gar nicht. Eben, genau. Ich hab nur gemerkt, ich hab Schwierigkeiten und ich bin oft bedrückt und auch niedergeschlagen. Aber wie du schon sagst, ja, ich kannte es halt nicht anders. Wie war es denn ab dem Moment, wo du's sozusagen schwarz auf weiß hattest? War das 'ne Erleichterung? War das 'n Schock? Das' 'ne sehr gute Frage. Ähm, ich hab ja öfter in meinem Leben schon Depressionen diagnostiziert bekommen und das war jedes Mal so 'n bisschen anders. Und mit 13 explizit war das alles ein großer Gefühlschaosklumpen, weil mit 13 ist man ja jetzt auch nicht so reflektiert oder informiert. Ich hab nur gemerkt, okay, irgendwas stimmt nicht mit mir und irgendwie wird's vielleicht besser durch die Therapie, aber keine Ahnung. Und später in meinem Leben war ich immer wieder neu überrascht, wenn mir jemand gesagt hat: \"Ja, Sie haben 'ne Depression.\" Du bist immer wieder neu überrascht gewesen? Ich dachte, es kommt dann irgendwann so: \"Ja gut, weiß ich. Next.\" Ja, dacht ich auch, aber, ähm, zum Beispiel mit Anfang 20 hatte ich wieder 'ne depressive Episode. Ich hab die so alle vier Jahre relativ heftig. Zwischen diesen Jahren komme ich irgendwie besser klar. Und jetzt je älter ich werde, desto mehr Kompetenzen hab ich durch meine Therapie auch erlangt, um mir selber gut zu begegnen in der Zeit. Ja, grade so mit Anfang 20, wenn da jemand sitzt und sagt: \"Ja, Sie haben 'ne Depression, Sie sind psychisch krank\", das hat mir jedes Mal wieder irgendwie den Boden unter den Füßen weggezogen. Weil du glaubst, einem gesellschaftlichen Normativ nicht zu entsprechen oder weil es dir 'ne Schwäche offenbart? Oder warum ist das so, warum fühlt sich das so schlimm an für dich? Also erst mal ist es ja generell nicht schön, wenn man hört, dass man erkrankt ist. Diese Herausforderung, dass ich da jetzt dran arbeiten muss in einer Therapie, die extrem anstrengend ist. Und grade so mit Anfang 20 und Mitte 20 dachte ich so: \"Na ja, ich hab doch schon Therapien gemacht. Ich bin da doch schon durch. Warum denn jetzt schon wieder?\" Das Thema mit dem Stigma ist natürlich auch irgendwo so 'ne Sache, aber ich hab tatsächlich immer tolle Freundinnen gehabt und hab die auch noch und die sind da immer sehr wohlwollend und offen mit mir umgegangen. Ja, und du meintest vorhin dieses: \"Ah ja, ich weiß ja, dass ich 'ne Depression hab.\" Das hab ich auch immer gesagt, äh, bis mich meine Psychiaterin dann mal in 'ne Psychoedukationsgruppe gesteckt hat. Was ist das? Psychoedukationsgruppe ist so 'n, wie so 'n Theorieunterricht in der Fahrschule. Du setzt dich da rein und lernst Fakten über deine Erkrankung. Als ich da hin bin mit Mitte 20, hab ich zum ersten Mal begriffen, was meine Depression eigentlich alles ist. Wo ist die Krankheit in mir? Was ist mein Charakter? Ich durfte lernen, dass ich kein scheißfauler Mensch bin, dass ich keinen blöden Charakter hab, sondern dass das die Erkrankung ist. Das hast du quasi mit Mitte 20 eigentlich erst mal nach über zehn Jahren das so greifen können. Genau. Und vorher war das immer so 'n diffuses Etwas. Ich hab Therapien gemacht, ich hab auch Erfolge verzeichnet, aber dass ich so diesen Blick von außen bekommen hab, wo ich dann wirklich gesehen hab, ah, da tut sich was aus den und den Gründen, das war erst, als ich quasi, ja, Expertin über meine eigene Krankheit wurde. Du bist jetzt Anfang 30 und also noch mal 'n paar Jahre vorangegangen. Wie würdest du denn sagen, hat sich deine Erkrankung gewandelt oder hast du dich gewandelt im Umgang mit dieser Erkrankung, auch mit dem Wissen, was du jetzt erworben hast und mit der Erfahrung? Also ich hab schon sehr, sehr viele depressive Episoden erlebt und ich kann vorweg sagen, jede Episode ist scheiße. Es fühlt sich immer gleich mies an. Manchmal fühle ich auch gar nichts. Es ist jedes Mal doof, scheiße, aber dadurch, dass ich viele Therapiestunden hinter mir hab, weiß ich, wie ich mir begegnen kann. Ich mach mir heutzutage weniger Druck und ich hab ein Vertrauen entwickelt darein, dass diese Phasen, die da sind, auch wieder vorbeigehen. Und das hatte ich früher nicht. Das ist, glaube ich, das, was sich verändert hat und was es auch irgendwie erträglich macht, auch wenn's nie Spaß macht. Einen typischen Tag wird's wahrscheinlich nicht geben, aber so einen Depressionstag versuchen zu umreißen. Also geht man abends schon ins Bett und weiß: \"Scheiße, morgen früh wird's, wird's doof?\" Oder wirst du jedes Mal davon irgendwie überrascht? Es hängt 'n bisschen davon ab, in welcher Zeit wir gucken. Also es gibt immer 'ne depressive Episode und die kündigt sich manchmal an. Manchmal ist sie auch einfach da. Und so 'n typischer Tag beginnt bei mir eigentlich damit, dass der Wecker klingelt und ich den zehnmal weiter drücke und erst gar nicht aus'm Bett komme. In mir drin-Grübelt's meistens ganz, ganz viel. Also Menschen sagen ja, man grübelt, aber ich werde gegrübelt. Also irgendwas in meinem Kopf gräbt die schlimmsten Erinnerungen und Momente aus meinem Leben aus und das lähmt mich dann so, dass ich erst gar nicht aus dem Bett rauskomme. Dann bin ich auch sehr gut darin, mich dafür fertigzumachen, dass ich nicht aus dem Bett komme, dass ich nicht funktioniere, dass ich mir nichts zu essen mache. Ähm, da verbringe ich sehr viel Zeit mit. Oft müsste ich auch eigentlich auf der Arbeit sein und schaff's aber nicht. Und dann schreibe ich den Leuten, dass ich heute von zu Hause aus arbeite, wenn es geht oder wenn die Depression so schlimm ist, dann melde ich mich auch einfach krank und sag: \"Sorry, geht gerade nicht.\" Da bin ich ganz froh, dass ich das einfach so offen teilen darf. Das wäre jetzt meine nächste Frage gewesen. Also bei dir auf der Arbeit, deine Kolleginnen und Kollegen, die wissen also um deine Erkrankung und das ist da, also du erfährst da kein Stigma. Genau, ich hab ja mit zwei anderen ein Unternehmen gegründet und wir sind inzwischen auch fünf Gesellschafterinnen in dem Unternehmen und die wussten im Grunde, worauf sie sich einlassen, aber ich glaube, es funktioniert auch nur so gut, weil sie mich nehmen, wie ich bin. Wir reden natürlich immer noch über 'ne Erkrankung. Na ja, dann, da ist, glaube ich, wenn wir es einfacher machen, das, das klingt immer so schön, aber so lange, wie du schon jetzt auch damit zu tun hast, so richtig viel einfacher geworden zu sein, scheint es mir jetzt nicht. Also die äußeren Umstände sind bei mir eben sehr einfach. Dadurch, dass alle Bescheid wissen, dass ich inzwischen in der Lage bin, darüber zu sprechen. Eigentlich verschlägt einem die Depression nämlich total die Sprache. Es gab Wochen und Monate, da konnt ich gar nicht ausdrücken, wie ich mich fühle oder was ich fühle. Und das geht heute deutlich besser. Ähm, und dadurch, dass ich selbstständig bin und dann doch mal meinen Arbeitsbeginn auswählen kann, ist es bei mir einfacher geworden, weil ich mich so einrichten konnte. Aber das kann natürlich auch nicht jede Person machen, ne. Erlaubt es dir, deine, ich nenn's jetzt mal Depressionsroutine, dir Dinge eher zu verzeihen? Du hast vorher gesagt, man ist auf den Selbstvorwürfen drin. Ist das immer noch so streng geblieben oder bist du da mittlerweile ein bisschen milder mit dir? Also seit ich weiß, was meine Depression ausmacht, dass das 'ne Krankheit mit Symptomen ist, wie bei 'ner Erkältung, da hast du Schnupfen und Husten und hier hab ich halt Konzentrationsschwäche und Antriebslosigkeit beispielsweise. Und seit ich weiß, dass das zur Krankheit dazu gehört, kann ich milder mit mir sein und mach mich nicht mehr so doll fertig dafür. Mhm. Schon, ja. Du hast grade schon gesagt, dass sich diese Phasen ankündigen. Manchmal kommen sie auch so, aber oftmals kommen sie mit 'ner Ankündigung. Gibt's manchmal vielleicht die Möglichkeit, sie sogar wegzupuffern irgendwie? Oder bist du ihr dann quasi nach wie vor schutzlos ausgeliefert und wartest nur, wann jetzt der Impact kommt? Also ja, ja, ich merke, wenn sich meine Depression ankündigt. Das merk ich, weil ich das mit meiner Therapeutin irgendwann mal erarbeitet habe. Wir haben geschaut, was sind so die Signale vielleicht in meinem Leben, die mich merken lassen, da könnte eventuell 'ne depressive Episode kommen. So was nennt man auch Frühwarnzeichen. Und ich weiß zum Beispiel, wenn ich acht Tassen Kaffee am Tag trinke und immer noch müde bin, dass da 'ne mentale Erschöpfung da ist, die nix mit meiner körperlichen Müdigkeit zu tun hat. Ich spreche darüber, dass ich mich belastet fühle und versuch dann, ja irgendwie so 'n Gang runterzuschalten. Ähm, wir haben uns darauf geeinigt, dass, ähm, ein ganz wichtiger Baustein in deinem Leben hier nicht im Bild auftaucht, aber du hast gesagt, wir können drüber sprechen. Mhm. Und zwar, ähm, dein Partner. Ähm, welche Rolle spielt er als, als Widerlager, als Halt, als, als Stütze? Ja, also ich bin jetzt seit, boah, fast 13 Jahren, äh, in einer Beziehung mit einem Menschen, der für mich so der mental Stabilste ist, den ich kenne. Ja, und er unterstützt mich zum einen darin, dass er mich mal so nimmt, wie ich bin und so liebt, wie ich bin. Und ich kann mit ihm über alles sprechen. Also ich kann mit ihm auch über suizidale Gedanken meinetwegen sprechen. Und was mir ganz wichtig auch zu erwähnen ist, ist, dass er nicht immer am Bett sitzen soll und meine Hand halten muss, wenn ich in 'ner Depression bin, weil das ist ja dann mein Thema. Und er profitiert aber zum Beispiel auch von meiner Therapieerfahrung davon, dass ich auf meine Gefühle schaue. Ich glaub, das hat ihn auch 'n bisschen inspiriert, mal in seine Gefühle reinzuschauen. Du hast grade in einem Nebensatz etwas Bemerkenswertes fallen lassen, was ich gerne noch mal aufgreifen möchte. Du hattest sui-suizidale Gedanken angesprochen. Mhm. Ähm, das hatte mich jetzt grade beim Zuhören ein wenig überrascht, weil, ähm, du nicht den Eindruck gemacht hast, damit zu kämpfen, aber offensichtlich spielt das 'ne Rolle. Kannst du uns da 'n bisschen mehr drüber erzählen? Ja, also suizidale Gedanken oder auch die Tat an sich, dass jemand sich suizidiert, gehört zu 'ner Depression wie die anderen, äh, Symptome. Ja, man muss sich mal vorstellen, ich liege im Bett, ich hab 'ne negative Zukunftsperspektive, ich hab 'n schlechtes Selbstbild, ich hab Antriebslosigkeit, ich kann mich nicht mehr konzentrieren. Und da find ich das irgendwo logisch, dass 'ne Person sagt: \"Ich möchte so nicht mehr weitermachen.\" Und auch ich hab diese Gedanken gehabt, jetzt grade hier nicht, aber in, äh, Episoden, wo du wirklich monatelang durch den Sumpf watest, da gibt's irgendwann so diesen Gedanken zu sagen: \"Ey, ich kann das nicht mehr. Ich will so nicht mehr weitermachen.\"Ja, und das einfach äußern zu dürfen bei einem vertrauten Menschen, der mich daran erinnert, dass dieses So ja nicht für immer bleibt, das ist total viel wert, dass man das nicht mit sich selber ausmachen muss. Nun ist ja das eine 'n rationaler Gedanke, zu wissen, das geht jetzt nicht ewig. Und in den Momenten, wenn du in so einer, so einer Phase drin bist, ist ja mit Vernunft, glaub ich, grade kein Blumentopf zu gewinnen. Wie weit ist es bei dir gegangen? Bist du über die Gedanken mal irgendwann hinausgekommen? Hast du mal 'ne selbstverletzende Handlung... Also ich weiß, es ist jetzt 'ne, 'ne, 'ne sehr deepe Frage, also musst die auch nicht beantworten, aber es würde mich interessieren. Also in der Jugend gab es selbstverletzendes Verhalten. Das hatte aber eher nichts mit Suizidgedanken zu tun. Ich glaub, dadurch, dass ich das immer wieder aussprechen konnte und gemerkt hab, was das für 'ne Resonanz auslöst, zu merken, da sind Leute, die wollen, dass ich hier bleibe. Also ich hab nie 'nen Suizidversuch gemacht, Gott sei Dank. Ich find auch das Wort Selbstmord nicht gut, weil das hat so 'ne aktive Komponente. Aber wenn man mal in 'ner Depression gesteckt hat und weiß, wie machtlos und hilflos man sich fühlt, da, das hat nix mehr mit Selbstwirksamkeit zu tun. Ich hab dieses Thema nicht ohne Grund aufgegriffen, weil, ähm, ich hab das schon mehrfach gehört oder erfahren, dass dieser Moment, wo man das erste Mal denkt: \"Ist eigentlich scheißegal, wenn's jetzt vorbei ist, ist es vorbei\", hat für viele so 'n, so 'n, so 'n unfassbar schweren, wachrüttelnden Charakter, der einerseits natürlich in 'ne Aktion gehen kann, ich muss da jetzt aktiv dagegen irgendwie versuchen anzugehen, oder aber ich verliere mich jetzt in meiner Hoffnungslosigkeit. Wie war das bei dir? Also bei mir war das schon auch sehr alarmierend zu merken: Ach krass, so weit ist es schon. Ich durfte ja in der Edukationsgruppe lernen, dass es wie so 'ne Abwärtsspirale gibt und die Suizidgedanken quasi ganz unten sitzen. Und ich wusste aber auch, dass diese Spirale wieder zurück nach oben gehen kann. Und dieses Wissen hat mir dann auch geholfen, nicht da unten zu verharren sozusagen. Aber es ist schon sehr alarmierend, wenn man diese Gedanken in sich aufkommen spürt. Weil ganz ehrlich, ich lieb mein Leben, ich hab Spaß hier und ich will mir das nicht vermasseln lassen von 'ner Depression. Und dass diese Krankheit so weit fortschreitet, dass ich so 'n Gedanken in Erwägung ziehe, das find ich heutzutage richtig unerhört. Du hast jetzt schon einiges angesprochen. Wir haben über Edukationsgruppe gesprochen, wir haben über Therapie gesprochen. Worüber du nicht gesprochen hast, ist Medikamentierung. Mhm. Wie ist es bei dir? Hast du 'ne Medikamentierung gehabt? Hast du aktuell eine? Also es ist ja so, dass Depressionen vor allem mit Psychotherapie und Psychopharmaka behandelt werden und Psychoedukation ist auch nicht schlecht. Und ich hatte auch schon mal, äh, Antidepressiva in meinem Leben. Ich hab die sieben Jahre lang genommen und es hat mir am Anfang auch so 'n bisschen geholfen, so aus dem gröbsten Loch rauszukommen. Aber es gab irgendwann den Zeitpunkt, wo ich keinen antidepressiven Effekt mehr gespürt habe und dann hab ich irgendwann entschieden, die Medikamente wieder abzusetzen. Ich bin jetzt grade ohne und einigermaßen stabil. Ich mach grade wieder Therapie, ich geh viel zum Sport. Das sind so die Dinge, die mich irgendwie stabil halten. Ich würd aber niemals ausschließen, wenn ich jetzt wieder an so 'nem Punkt bin, wo gar nichts mehr geht, dass ich auch wieder Medikamente nehme oder beispielsweise in 'ne Klinik gehe. Auf der einen Seite ist ja 'ne Depression 'ne leise Krankheit, ist ja 'ne Krankheit, die, die, die von vielen unbemerkt im Stillen abläuft, ne. Man sieht's halt nicht wie, wie jetzt 'n gebrochenen Arm oder Ähnliches. Ja. Und auf der anderen Seite ist es aber auch eine Erkrankung, wo, glaube ich, ganz, ganz viele Menschen 'ne ähnliche Erkrankung mit sich rumtragen und es sehr, sehr viel, du sehr, sehr viel Dankbarkeit erfahren kannst, wenn man zu 'ner Plattform wird, wo, wo sich Menschen begegnen können. Wie kam es bei dir, dass du, dass du diesen Weg gesucht hast? Äh, hat's dir geholfen und was fließt da ein? Also es fing tatsächlich mit dieser Psychoedukationsgruppe an, wo ich extrem viel mitgeschrieben habe. Und ich hab ja Kommunikationsdesign studiert und 'ne halbwegs schöne Handschrift. Und da kam's dann dazu, dass die Mitpatient:innen das gerne abfotografieren oder für sich mitnehmen wollten. Und dann dachte ich: „Aber eigentlich muss das jede Person mit Depressionen wissen.\" Und dann hab ich irgendwann angefangen, ja, auf Instagram diese Erkenntnisse zu posten, das, was ich gelernt hab, irgendwie hübsch aufzubereiten. Teilweise sind da auch so Erkenntnisse aus der Psychotherapie drin und das zu teilen, war anfangs sehr aufregend. Ich hab mich bestimmt drei Jahre lang nicht getraut, überhaupt was zu machen. Und dann zu merken, da sind Leute, die schreiben mir: \"Ey, Eva, mir geht's ganz genauso.\" Wie viele Menschen, darf ich dich fragen, äh, folgen dir da jetzt? Ähm, so 10.000. Ja, krass. Genau. Und das ist so 'ne schöne Verbundenheit, die man, ja, im Internet auch haben kann. Also Social Media ist für mich und meine Community eigentlich total hilfreich, weil wir alle zu Hause im Bett liegen und aber merken, wir sind nicht alleine damit und wir können, äh, uns kann geholfen werden sozusagen und das ist großartig. Dann können wir es ja vielleicht mal ganz praktisch machen. Ähm, fünf Lifehacks, äh, was tue ich, wenn, wenn ich grade in einer depressiven Phase bin? Also ich hab euch erzählt, dass ich manchmal im Schlafanzug auf die Arbeit gehe und ich trag halt 'ne Yogahose und 'n T-Shirt als Schlafanzug, damit, ja, das nicht so auffällt. Ich hab, wie gesagt, diesen, diesen lieben Partner, der mir jeden Morgen 'nen Kaffee ans Bett stellt, so als ersten Kickstarter. Das hilft mir auch sehr. Einfach, ja, so sein dürfen, wie man ist. Ich mach Video Calls aus dem Bett mit meinen Kollegen, das stört die null. Manchmal nehm ich auch einen dieser Elektroroller, die es jetzt hier so auf den Straßen gibt, und fahr dann so mit 20 km/h Antriebslosigkeit auf die Arbeit. Auch das hilft mir. Ähm, ich versuch's mir einfach so einfach wie möglich zu machen, um diese Hürden, die man hat, zu übertreten. Über mentale Gesundheit zu sprechen, warViele Jahre, ich würde gar nicht mal sagen tabuisiert. Es hat einfach nicht stattgefunden, weil es für viele einfach nicht greifbar war. Äh, in den letzten Jahren hat sich das geändert. Ähm, wir haben Gespräche darüber. Und Mensch, du hast grade g-gesagt, dass du selber jetzt von vielen gar nicht so wahrgenommen wirst, als wenn du eine mentale Erkrankung oder ein Problem mit dir rumschleppen würdest. Mhm. Was glaubst du, bringt das für mentale Erkrankungen, wie du sie ja nun auch hast, in einer öffentlichen Wahrnehmung stattzufinden? Das bringt ganz viel Verständnis für 'ne Sache, vor der manche Menschen vielleicht Angst haben, weil sie früher gelernt haben, wer Depressionen hat, ist verrückt. Oder diese ganzen Vorurteile bezüglich einer Klinik. Die Leute, die man im Fernsehen kennt und die man cool findet, wenn die da ganz normal drüber sprechen, dann merkt man, das ist alles gar nicht so wild. Eva, wir sind jetzt einfach mal ein Stück weitergegangen- Ja. -von dir zu Hause, äh, auf Arbeit. Ja, willkommen. Wir heißen Why we do. Wir machen sehr, sehr vieles, äh, vor allem, äh, Produktentwicklung und Innovation. Dabei denken wir nicht nur drüber nach, sondern wir haben auch die passende Werkstatt, um dann 'nen technischen Prototypen zu entwickeln. Mit anderen Worten: Ihr seid nicht nur Denker, ihr seid auch Macher. Genau. Und jetzt kommen wir genau zu dem Punkt. Das hattest du vorhin ja schon mal gesagt: Du musst, um in dieser Firma arbeiten zu können, in deiner Firma kreativ sein. Das geht nun nicht immer, wenn man grade in 'ner Depression drin ist. Ja. Wie, wie kriegst du das hin, trotzdem zu funktionieren, um dieses böse Wort mal zu nehmen? Boah, gute Frage. Also wichtig ist, dass ich mir keinen Druck mache, ähm, dass ich auch mich hier nicht verstellen oder verstecken muss. Manchmal bin ich tatsächlich auch sehr kreativ, wenn ich in 'nem Loch hänge. Nur deshalb ist überhaupt mein Buch entstanden. Mhm. Weil das, da fällt mir nix ein, wenn's mir okay geht. Könntest du so weit gehen zu sagen, dass dir deine Erkrankung auch eine zusätzliche Tür öffnet, die dir unter Umständen als kreativer Mensch sogar 'ne weitere Facette ermöglicht? 'Ne, 'ne, 'ne tiefere Tiefe? Tu mich immer schwer damit, das so als, äh, Kreativquell zu romantisieren. Mhm. Aber natürlich geht man in 'ner depressiven Episode durch starke Situationen und Gefühle durch oder auch Nicht-Gefühle. Und die hätt ich natürlich nicht gehabt, wenn ich da nicht durch gemusst hätte. Ich würd fast eher sagen, dadurch, dass ich viel Psychotherapie gemacht hab und viel reinfühlen und reindenken musste, dass das mir so 'ne neue Welt eröffnet hat. Ich glaub, die Depression alleine, unbehandelt, hätte mich eher so 'n bisschen eingehen lassen. Wie lange machst du's jetzt? Fast zehn Jahre. Und warum grade Pole Dance? Wie bist du dazu gekommen und was bedeutet's dir? Ich fand Sport immer ganz, ganz furchtbar und irgendwann in meinen Zwanzigern hab ich zum Pole gefunden. Ich glaub, weil 'ne Freundin das gemacht hat. Und ich mag total gerne die Kombination aus Tanz und Akrobatik und Musik. Und man muss halt sehr genau gucken, was man macht an der Stange, damit man nicht abstürzt. Mhm. Und da krieg ich extrem gut den Kopf bei frei. Du hast jetzt schon seit über den Daumen gepeilt zwei Dritteln deines Lebens die Diagnose der Depression. Das heißt also, höchstwahrscheinlich wirst du's auch, wird's dich dein Leben lang begleiten. Möglich. Wie, w-wie siehst du diese Perspektive, wenn du dann das nach vorn guckst? Also hast du irgendeine Idee, wo es dich hinführt? Hast du 'n Wunsch, wo es dich hinführt? Mhm. Also ich muss natürlich realistisch in die Zukunft schauen und ich hab diese Krankheit ja jetzt schon sehr lange und die wird auch immer wieder auftauchen, schätze ich. Zumindest wär's jetzt naiv zu glauben, die kommt nie wieder, wenn ich sie einmal überwunden hab und dementsprechend muss ich mein Leben halt so 'n bisschen ausrichten. Eva, vielen lieben Dank, dass wir heute so nah an dich ran durften und den Tag mit dir verbringen durften. Gerne. Ich wünsch dir von Herzen, dass da immer was ist, zum dran festhalten. Sei es 'ne Stange, sei es liebe Menschen in, in deiner Umgebung, sei es deine Kreativität. Und toi, toi, toi, natürlich alles Liebe und, und, und viel Erfolg auch mit, mit deiner Seite bei Insta und natürlich mit deinem Buch. Danke schön. Also das war 'n toller Tag. Danke schön. Ja, schön, dass ihr da wart. Alles Liebe für dich. Danke schön. Du kannst ja auch mal probieren jetzt. Ich glaub, ich krieg erst mal Haue, weil ich Ringe um hab. Da darf ich nicht ran. Genau. Dich so hinstellen und einmal, äh, elegant drumherum laufen wirst du ja können. Gell. Da knackst ja alles. Ah, oder?",
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